At PJM today I discuss the widespread reaction to our free speech event in Texas — yes, you can do it, but you shouldn’t.
Franklin Graham articulated what many Christians (and others) are thinking about the now-notorious Muhammad Art Exhibit and Cartoon Contest that Pamela Geller and I organized in Garland, Texas, and that was attacked by jihadis: “The organizers of the cartoon contest in Garland, Texas, had the constitutional right to do what they did—but just because we have the ‘right’ to do something doesn’t make it right! As a Christian I’m offended when people mock my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Muslims are offended when people mock their faith. I disagree with Islam. But just because I disagree, I’m not going to mock them or resort to violence. We need to show respect to people of other races and beliefs. What happened to civility and respect?”
It’s understandable that Graham would think that way. Blasphemy is a serious sin in both Christianity and Islam, although only in Islam is it punishable by death. It is understandable that Christians would consider a contest for cartoons of Muhammad as offensive as a contest for cartoons of Jesus, and think that it would be a matter of simple respect for Muslims as human beings to refrain from appearing to mock someone they revere.
That’s a reasonable point, but there is more to this issue. Christians can easily understand that they should accord respect to non-Christians, just as they wish non-Christians would respect their faith. Clouding this issue nowadays, however, is the growing number of things some Muslims around the world are demanding from non-Muslims as a matter of respect. Muslims in Pakistan recently warned a Christian leader that if he continued to build churches, they would kill him. You might say, “Ah, but building churches isn’t the same as mocking their prophet,” and yet to those who are issuing these threats, building churches is indeed just as bad as mocking their prophet. Both, in fact, are forbidden in Islamic law….Also, declaring the cartoons in our contest offensive raises troubling questions about what is depicted in many of them. A large number focused aspects of Muhammad’s life as described in the earliest Islamic texts. If the cartoons depicting Muhammad with his child bride are offensive, are the Islamic texts stating that he consummated his marriage with a nine-year-old girl when he was 54 also offensive? If a cartoon of Muhammad with a bomb in his turban is offensive, are the Islamic texts in which Muhammad orders people to be killed and beheads between 600 and 900 Jews also offensive? If depicting Muhammad as a terrorist is offensive, are the Islamic texts in which he is quoted as saying, “I have been made victorious with terror” and “I have been commanded to fight against people until they confess that there is no god but Allah and I am his messenger” also offensive?…
Read the rest here.
Brian says
Islam is a murderous, fascist, supremacist ideology with a veneer of religion founded by a mass murderer, slave owner, serial rapist and all-round psychopath. Now that is offensive in the extreme to any right thinking stable and honest person.
Mo says
@ Brian says
“Islam is a murderous, fascist, supremacist ideology with a veneer of religion founded by a mass murderer, slave owner, serial rapist and all-round psychopath. Now that is offensive in the extreme to any right thinking stable and honest person.”
Absolutely right! Islam offends me every single day. But I’m not going around murdering Muslims or calling for them to be murdered.
Here are two questions we need to be asking of Muslims on a regular basis. I think they are fair and reasonable ones that deserve an answer:
If statements like these are not factually true, why would Muslims be so offended that they’d kill the person for doing so?
If these statements ARE factually true, why are they following this ideology?
Pete Doyle says
I have a lot of time for Franklin Graham, but I think it a grave mistake to at any time equate Islam with Christianity (if only vaguely under an umbrella of “religious” tolerance). Christ and Mohammed’s teachings are diametric opposites. One religion is true the other a lie. Mohammed and Islam should be afforded no greater protection form criticism than should Nazis or Scientologists.
Indeed, if white, blue-eyed Scientologists started claiming the right to kill those that insult L R. Hubbard they’d be run out of town; they’d be cartooned into oblivion. Alas, most of Islam’s adherents have darker skin, a different accent and they’re underdogs so white westerners tend to feel like putting up with their manifestly hateful and harmful holy book. It’s ridiculous! This is not about skin colour, or your country of origin this is about a ghastly, embarrassing book that has wreaked untold wretchedness on billions of people.
Greyhound Fancier says
One other difference is that “Allah” needs Muslims’ assistance to maintain his honor. So all Muslims are involved in policing the world to prevent anything being said that would hurt either Mo’s or “Allah’s” feelings.
I heard last weekend on EWTN radio that when blasphemy laws were initiated in Malaysia (IIRC), the penalty for blasphemy against the qu’ran is life in prison, but blasphemy against Mohamad is punishable by death.
Pete Doyle says
I have a lot of time for Franklin Graham, but I think it a grave mistake to at any time equate Islam with Christianity (if only vaguely under an umbrella of “religious” tolerance). Christ and Mohammed’s teachings are diametric opposites. One religion is true the other a lie. Mohammed and Islam should be afforded no greater protection form criticism than should Nazis or Scientologists.
Indeed, if white, blue-eyed Scientologists started claiming the right to kill those that insult L R. Hubbard they’d be run out of town; they’d be cartooned into oblivion. Alas, most of Islam’s adherents have darker skin, a different accent and they’re underdogs so white westerners tend to feel like putting up with their manifestly hateful and harmful holy book. It’s ridiculous! This is not about skin colour, or your country of origin this is about a ghastly, embarrassing book that has wreaked untold wretchedness on billions of people and counting.
somehistory says
If someone asks another not to engage in a certain activity in their presence, and the one asked refrains voluntarily, then that can be considered a good thing, an application of the Golden Rule of ‘do to others as you wish them to do to you.’
However, if the one asking is not asking….but demanding on pain of bodily injury even to include death…then the one of whom the demand is made has to consider all aspects of the situation. If they do as the one threatening them demands, then what will be demanded next? Will the next demand be something that is *reasonable*…not drawing, for example….or will it be something of a more serious nature…such as hand over your daughter for sale or marriage, stop worshipping the True God, pay to stay alive, etc.
The demands of muslims are endless…they wish everyone else to be in complete slavery or dead.
As a person who hopes Christ considers me Christian, I understand the Golden Rule. But Jesus gave other commands too, and one is to keep our faith intact. Giving in to the demands of those who worship the beast of satan is not keeping faith in the True God.
rev g says
I understand the idea of taking the moral higher ground. Of course, in view of the actions taken regularly in the name of Islam, the artwork contest was almost sacred ground, not just morally higher ground.
Renee says
I agree with you Robert, and the idea of the contest was not to provoke, poke in the eye or whatever, but to make a statement that you cannot kill over a drawing, and that no drawing is forbidden. I am a christian, do not like Monty Python’s life of Brian, walked out, but NO media ever said that it was provocative towards Christians. And again, the idea of the Mo cartoon contest was not really about cartoons of Mo, but about not letting terror and violence rule.
Mirren10 says
”It is understandable that Christians would consider a contest for cartoons of Muhammad as offensive as a contest for cartoons of Jesus, and think that it would be a matter of simple respect for Muslims as human beings to refrain from appearing to mock someone they revere.”
I don’t think this *is* a reasonable point. If the character, qualities, and actions of mohammed were *worthy* of reverence, that would be a reasonable point, although still not rendering a cartoon contest ‘blasphemous’, or something that shouldn’t have been done.
Are we to refrain from caricaturing Hitler, or Pol Pot, or Mao Tse Tung, Stalin, or any other of the evil, vicious and violent dictators of history, on the grounds that millions revered them, and therefore to caricature them, or criticise them in any way, constitutes a lack of respect for these people’s feelings and beliefs ?
If I tell a doctrinaire neo-nazi his idol, Hitler, was a nasty little man with only one testicle, and a ridiculous moustache, who hated Jews because a Jewish prostitute infected him with the clap, am I being disrespectful and mocking ? Well, yes, of course I am, because the character of Hitler *deserves* mockery and disrespect.
And so too does the character of the equally evil and repulsive mohammed.
The Reverend Graham needs to do some reading on mohammed, his life and his deeds, compare them with Christ, and then ask himself which one deserves respect, and what does the character of mohammed tell him about those who revere him.
Mo says
@ Mirren10
“I don’t think this *is* a reasonable point. If the character, qualities, and actions of mohammed were *worthy* of reverence, that would be a reasonable point, although still not rendering a cartoon contest ‘blasphemous’, or something that shouldn’t have been done.”
Exactly!
“Well, yes, of course I am, because the character of Hitler *deserves* mockery and disrespect.
And so too does the character of the equally evil and repulsive mohammed.”
That is exactly the point that so many people are not getting. It has left me shocked. I’m used to this from leftists or from anti-theists who lump all religions together as though they are more or less the same. I don’t expect such people to make an distinctions between Jesus, Mohammad or any other religious figure. (Although some people do, and I appreciate it.)
But to hear Christians saying this stuff makes me want to tear out my hair in frustration. No one is talking about pointing at individual Muslim people and saying nasty things to them either in person or in writing. I’ve never seen Robert or Pamela do any such thing. We have all seen them stand up for Muslim victims of this evil ideology as much as any other victims.
“The Reverend Graham needs to do some reading on mohammed, his life and his deeds, compare them with Christ, and then ask himself which one deserves respect, and what does the character of mohammed tell him about those who revere him.”
I am so disappointed in Franklin Graham. I’ve read other things by him and he seemed to understand what Islam was all about. I’m not sure what happened in this case. I wonder if he didn’t even know much about the event. I wonder if he just thought this was simply a bunch of people getting together and saying more or less, “All Muslims are terrorists!” or other false things?
There just seems to be no distinction being made between 1) mocking people and mocking ideologies. and 2) saying things about an ideology that are false, and saying things about an ideology that are factually true.
I assumed Christians, of all people, would be making these distinctions. But I am apparently mistaken. I’ve seen comments like Franklin Graham’s being said all over the place by Christians.
JamesonRocks says
“Christians can easily understand that they should accord respect to non-Christians, just as they wish non-Christians would respect their faith.”
And that is the problem with islam. Moozies simply don’t respect other belief systems. Hell, they don’t respect themselves or moozie women and children. Honor killings, child marriage, and FGM say it all…
voegelinian says
What a bloody idiot Franklin Graham is. Shame on him. I thought he, rarely among mainstream Christians, showed signs of getting the problem of Islam.
jewdog says
Christians aren’t trying to impose the death penalty on non-Christians for insulting Jesus. If they were, then I’d consider a draw-Jesus contest too mild a gesture.
This all comes back to the simple fact that Sharia calls for universal application. If our leaders can’t push back in an explicit and clear way against that, then they are failing us. So far, they are failing us.
Gary says
I suppose rather than “offend Muslims” by hosting a “Muhammad Art Exhibit and Cartoon Contest” Jihad Watch could host debates on the truth of Muhammad’s violent and deranged history, as compared to Jesus of Nazareth, and His message of love, hope, grace and everlasting life.
Something tells me the outcome from Muslims would be more of the same…..
One of violence.
Greyhound Fancier says
A comparison explaining the sayings and behaviors of Jesus of Nazareth vs Mohammad would make an interesting seminar! I’d like to see the Muslims defend Mohammad’s murder, slaving, child rape and pillaging.
“Vengeance is mine; I way repay” says the Lord. The Good Lord will place all things under the feet of His Christ at the right time; we just need to remain faithful and continue to tell the truth.
rev g says
This is why Muslims often cherry pick from the parable of the ten minas. It is an attempt to paint Jesus as bloodthirsty, like Mo.
Lia Wissing says
They don’t defend, argue, debate. They wave posters & placards and they scream & shout.
Mo says
This approach even from Christians has left me stunned. (And especially from Franklin Graham, who has generally been pretty bold in speaking out against Islam!)
“As a Christian I’m offended when people mock my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Muslims are offended when people mock their faith. I disagree with Islam. But just because I disagree, I’m not going to mock them or resort to violence. We need to show respect to people of other races and beliefs. What happened to civility and respect?”
For one thing, where is the evidence that these cartoons “mocked their faith” in the first place? If a cartoon says something true, how is that mocking anything?
I haven’t even SEEN all the cartoons. The only I’ve seen is Bosch Fawstin’s winning entry. I can’t imagine that any reasonable person could call that “mocking”. All it’s doing is basically describing the purpose of the event!
Notice, then how he starts off talking about Islam and then shifts to Muslims? Why can’t anyone seem to make the distinction between mocking and telling the truth? Or between mocking an IDEA and mocking a PERSON? (Or group of persons.)
” It is understandable that Christians would consider a contest for cartoons of Muhammad as offensive as a contest for cartoons of Jesus, and think that it would be a matter of simple respect for Muslims as human beings to refrain from appearing to mock someone they revere.”
Robert, I respectfully disagree with you that such a view is understandable among Christians. I can understand such a view among non-religious people who perhaps know very little about either Jesus or Mohammad. But this attitude is not acceptable among Christians. They should know better! They should know that Jesus and Mohammad are in no way equal!
Again, there needs to be a distinction between mocking ideas and mocking persons. (Though, in a free society we should be allowed to do either one.) But this conflating of the two as though mocking one is equal to mocking the other only serves to confuse an already confused issue.
And backing up even further, it needs to first be established that there was any actual mocking going on in the first place. Is simply stating facts now considered mocking?
***
This whole thing drives me nuts. I never dreamed Christians would be behaving and speaking in this manner. Leftists who call themselves Christians is one thing. But genuine followers of Christ? They are now defending the most EXPLICITLY anti-Christian religion on earth?
I’m at a loss!
B Bistawros says
With all the respect I have for Franklin Graham. He is totally wrong. Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer are defending our First Amendment. Muslim fanatical terrorists want to silence us in our own Country. They want us to do what they do in their own Country which is forcing everybody to be silent in the face of their fanatical belief.
voegelinian says
I disagree. Some things are deserving of criticism, condemnation, mockery, ridicule and insult. Any ideology that is evil, vile, offensive, dangerous, outrageously against human rights. Islam qualifies as all of these. Islam should be criticized, condemned, mocked, ridiculed, and insulted. And so should all people — including Muslims — who in any way defend Islam.
I can understand why this is so hard for the PC MC Mainstream to get; what I find unacceptable is why it’s so hard for so many (the majority it seems) in the Counter-Jihad to get — for surely by now they are (or should be) acquainted with the bloody mountain of data oozing with toxic slime that is the Islam which all Muslims enable (if not support)..
Cecilia Ellis says
After defending the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic, for twenty years; after serving at Ground Zero while the fires still burned at 2000 degrees Fahrenheit; after living in a Muslim country and adhering to all its rules prohibiting any display of Christian affiliation; after attending graduate school at two of the foremost Catholic universities in America — The Catholic University of America and the University of Notre Dame –, I am dismayed, if not stunned, at the overt disregard for Christian sentiments and the wide-scale defamation of character targeting Pam Geller and Robert Spencer.
While Rev. Franklin Graham has been outspoken about his understanding of Islam, that understanding falls far short of the unsurpassed, historically-and-theologically-accurate, wake-up call of both Pam and Robert.
As a result of the media’s assymetric war against Pam, Robert, and the First Amendment, those who would insult Christianity or any other faith tradition, except Islam, have been awarded another force multiplier: high-ground moral respect for an ideology that seeks to impose the Conditions of Umar worldwide and to live under Shariah until the Last Day.
I respect and applaud Pam and Robert. They have set the standard. They have gone fearlessly where journalists, religious leaders, politicians, and news commentators (less Megyn Kelly) would not go: the arena of political correctness and concern for backlash. Like Martin Luther, they have announced, “Here I stand.”
I stand with them.
John Boston says
If we “should not” caricature a child molester, genocidal murderer, and founder of the most destructive religion on Earth, what should we do? Say sweet things about Mohammed, or perhaps host a sugar-coated discussion of the Qur’an?
Christians like Rev. Graham are embarrassing the more intelligent ones; they show that they have bought into the lie that “Islam is a religion of peace”. This is the Big Lie today, and everyone who believes it bears the ugly marks of dhimmitude.
As for me: yesterday I ordered a T-shirt with the famous “bombhead” Mohammed cartoon on the front. If the printing company will make it, I will wear it.
John Miller says
The problem with Mr. Spencer’s response to Franklin Graham simply comes from the fact that he does not understand true Christians. I don’t know what religion, if any, he claims to hold, but clearly he’s not a Christian or he would understand the most basic of Jesus’ teaching. That teaching is that we are to treat others as we would have them treat us. No other religion in the world teaches that. Some teach that you shouldn’t do to others what you don’t want done to you (a negative command), but Jesus taught a positive command by teaching that Christians should treat others the same way they want to be treated. By holding an event that is designed to offend, a Christian would be saying that they want to be treated that way themselves. And that’s why Franklin Graham takes the stand he does.
Now, while I agree with Franklin Graham, I also defend Pam Gellar’s right in the pluralistic society of America to hold her event. She has that right and I would not stand in her way. But even though I defend her right to do it, I would not hold such event myself. For me, like Franklin Graham, it simply boils down to following our Lord’s teaching.
fido says
I can appreciate what you’re saying John, but I think you’re failing to acknowledge that perhaps Jesus wasn’t talking about the guy standing over you ready to pull a knife blade across your throat and the throats of your wife and children. I and many others believe Jesus would have expected you to provide protection for your loved ones and yourself and that includes stopping a physical attack on your persons.
I also believe He would also expect you to stand stalwart against the ravages of evil by speaking out against the injustices of deceit, tyranny and fascism. There are numerous passages in Biblical scripture calling for loving thine enemy and turning the other cheek, but the “do unto others” directive requires that one be, first and foremost, alive to do so. A reasonable defense against imminent murder and destruction is not denied the Christian believer in the Bible or, let’s face it, resistance to Nazi fascism in WWII would have been blasphemous. Was it?
Romans 13:4
For he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer.
Re: 13:4 “God’s servant for your good.” Here he is referring to government or the state’s authority that is for society’s benefit; this is its normal function, and Paul assumes it may be realized in practical terms even when governments are professedly non-Christian.
In Romans 12:19-21 Paul advises not to take revenge but to leave matters with God, who will avenge. He does it through government. The rulers are God’s servants to execute judgment (vv. 4, 6). The government is established by God for the good of all. Therefore Christians should support it with taxes and submission. Here Paul speaks in terms of the normative, assuming that the government is fulfilling the duty assigned by God. He does not specifically deal with abnormal conditions, such as when the government usurps the absolute authority of God. However, if Paul’s directive is carefully observed, his intent is clear. Paul exhorts submission (hupotassō), not absolute obedience.
In Eph 5:21 Paul calls for Christians to submit (hupotassō) to one another. Constantly taking the lowly place over against one another is possible, but obeying one another constantly is not. Therefore, if the government no longer serves God and does what is contrary to God’s will, we should, like the apostles in Ac 4:19, follow God rather than blindly obey the government
1 Timothy 5:8
But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
And what about false religion (and most certainly, by the teachings of Christ, islam is a false religion)? As a Christian we are warned against deceit:
2 Corinthians 11:13-15
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.
Jeremiah 14:14
And the Lord said to me: “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I did not send them, nor did I command them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a lying vision, worthless divination, and the deceit of their own minds
1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Beagle says
You do realize people have been painting, sculpting, drawing, cartooning, animating, and otherwise representing Jesus for about two millennia, right?
My “do unto others” analysis is let people do any artistic thing they want to, but don’t force me to look at or, especially, pay for it.
Robert Spencer says
John Miller:
I did actually treat others as I would have them treat us.
I don’t threaten or kill people who ridicule or mock my religion. I’d appreciate the same courtesy from Muslims.
And while I did not ridicule or mock Islam and have no interest in opposing its tenets on anything but rational grounds and on issues of human rights, I want those who do ridicule and mock it, particularly for its sanctioning of violence, oppression of women, etc., to do so without fear of being killed — or silenced by clueless, cowed and/or compromised officials.
voegelinian says
“… clearly [Robert Spencer is] not a Christian or he would understand the most basic of Jesus’ teaching. That teaching is that we are to treat others as we would have them treat us.”
Wrong.
Matthew 3:7 — But when he [Jesus] saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Matthew 12:34-39 (Again, Jesus addressing the Pharisees) — O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign…
Muslims in enabling and promoting Islam are, if not spiritually worse than the “vipers” against whom Jesus righteously railed, most emphatically and certainly far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR, more dangerous to the lives and limbs of our loved ones, friends, neighbors, fellow citizens, and beyond that, our fellow Westerners (not to mention innumerable innocents around the world outside the West).
Shame on any Christians whose sincerely obtuse misreading of their own scriptures make them blind to this most pressing, most dire emergency of our time.
Renee says
So you will not drink wine, not eat pork and not call Jesus Son of God. All of those offend muslims. In some western European countries it is already thought provocative to eat ham when muslims are present. Where does it stop?
The reason Geller did this is to put a foot down, and not to have Mo-cartoons. Note: there is painting of Mo in a NY museum. Should the museum take it down?
By the way, I am a christian and disagree with you
Mo says
@ John Miller says
“The problem with Mr. Spencer’s response to Franklin Graham simply comes from the fact that he does not understand true Christians. I don’t know what religion, if any, he claims to hold, but clearly he’s not a Christian or he would understand the most basic of Jesus’ teaching.”
Looks like you’re the one who does not understand the most basic of Jesus’ teaching. It wasn’t to be “nice” to everyone. His most basic teaching was that human beings are sinners in need of a Savior, headed for hell and that He is the Savior who paid the price in their place, to offer them salvation. That’s Jesus’ most basic teaching. In fact, that’s the Bible’s most basic teaching from beginning to end.
“That teaching is that we are to treat others as we would have them treat us. ”
No, that is not Jesus’ most basic teaching. Even if that were the case, we already do treat Muslims that way! We don’t slaughter them or subjugate them for not believing as we do. The problem is that they do not offer non-Muslims that courtesy in return.
“By holding an event that is designed to offend…”
Can you show me your evidence that this event was “designed to offend”?
“a Christian would be saying that they want to be treated that way themselves. And that’s why Franklin Graham takes the stand he does.”
This is what happens when you take one line from Scripture and ignore the thing as a whole. Sure, we want to generally treat others the way we want to be treated. But that doesn’t mean we can’t also speak out against wrong when we see it.
Blatantly anti-Christian events take place all the time. Professional atheists like Richard Dawkins do book tours and speaking engagements. The sexual anarchy crowd holds their parades. Self-proclaimed “artists” make their obscene and blasphemous works and display them publicly. Pop entertainers often blaspheme Christ and insult Christians.
And yet Christians don’t murder, call for the murder, or condone the murder of any of these people.
“Now, while I agree with Franklin Graham, I also defend Pam Gellar’s right in the pluralistic society of America to hold her event. She has that right and I would not stand in her way. But even though I defend her right to do it, I would not hold such event myself. For me, like Franklin Graham, it simply boils down to following our Lord’s teaching.”
It has nothing to do with the Lord’s teaching. You have provided zero evidence that this even was “designed to offend”. What does that even mean? Muslims are offended that we even exist. Should we lay down and die?
Always On Watch says
As an evangelist, Franklin Graham believes that Jesus is the only way to salvation.
What I can’t understand is why he will not admit that we Christians should worry about blaspheming the false god Allah and the false prophet Mohammed.
Did the Prophet Elijah worry about offending the followers of Baal? NO! He stood up to them.
Look. Christians either believe in the God they claim to believe in, then proclaim Islam a pagan religion — or they are “lukewarm” (Jesus’ word). And what did Jesus say about those who are “lukewarm”?
I myself have confronted individual Christians and asked them, “Why can’t you say that Islam is a pagan religion?” And what is the response I often get? That Islam is an Abrahamic faith.
Christians today — for the most part — have been brainwashed into syncretism. No wonder that Islam gains followers in the West! The church will not stand up!
Always On Watch says
Typo alert!
The above should say ” we Christians should NOTworry about blaspheming the false god Allah and the false prophet Mohammed.
Kepha says
@Always: One of my students from Iraq once asked what I thought of the Qur’an. I told him that as a Christian, I had to respectfully disagree, especially when it says that Jesus did not die on the cross. I went on to say that for such a conversation to continue, I would have liked a few more adults around, and that it would be good for him if he could get hold of the New Testament and read it for himself to understand my position.
Why did I not yell, “Heathen blasphemer!” at the lad? It was simply because I hold hope that a curious, questing youngster might take up my suggestion and, perhaps, the Holy Spirit would pour out God’s mercy.
Having dealt with adherents of other false religions in Taiwan, I think it better that the other guy sees that Christ is infinitely superior to what he formerly worshiped. Leave it to those on whom the Word and Spirit have already done their saving work to break and burn their former idols.
Always On Watch says
Kepha,
That’s the way to witness to Muslims. I don’t disagree with you there.
However, Franklin Graham didn’t say anything like that when he condemned the AFDI art contest.
IMO, evangelists should refrain from making political comments.
abad says
“Some Christians” is right – as a born-again Christian I believe in freedom of speech but I also believe it is ultimately the decision of the individual and his or her personal beliefs (AKA following your conscience). There is nothing in the Bible that says we have to respect, capitulate, kowtow to Islam – nothing. Neither is there anything in our Constitution that says we need to respect, capitulate, kowtow to Islam, either. Franklin Graham fails when he starts accepting leftist nonsense about “not being offensive to Muslims.” In fact, I have to question his beliefs when he makes statements like that……
vlparker says
Robert, did you ever get the feeling that you are lecturing a class of dimwitted kindergartners?
Kepha says
Franklin Graham is saying that the Muhammad cartoon exhibit (by the way, belated congrats to Bosch Fawstin) was the wrong thing for the right reason. Unlike people like the staff at Washington’s Episcopalian cathedral, that RC bishop in Boston McWhatever, and other Christian (perhaps questionable in some cases?) leaders, Franklin Graham recognizes that Islam has a very wrong-headed theology; paints a very false picture of Jesus Christ and the biblical prophets; and is violent in accordance with its theology rather despite it.
As I’ve argued here very often, Christians–and here I mean those who take the Bible seriously as a theological and ethical guide that is still eminently relevant for the present age–are admonished by Paul the Apostle to pursue peace with all men as much as it is up to us (alas, Uncle Kepha often falls short here). Unlike, say, Obama, Graham will probably willingly die a thousand gruesome deaths before he would dare dismiss Paul as “obscure” or minor. Further, as something of a “Prodigal Son” in his youth, Graham probably understands at least large swathes of Paul on a very profound and personal level. Graham’s comments, to me at least, fairly drip with an attempt to render Rom. 12:18 practical.
I will further guess that Mr. Graham has had a number of associates, friends, and the like who are ex-Muslim Christians. For example, his father’s Chief Indian associate, Dr. Abdul Haqq, was the son of a Murtad. Being missions-minded, Graham is probably humbly and gratefully aware of a surprising responsiveness among Muslims towards the Gospel and such things as ex-Muslim congregations springing up in places like Kabylia and southeastern Anatolia. Certainly such people were not won to Christ by being called “Raghead”, or having things they held important belittled and mocked. Hence, he would be very wary of doing or saying anything that might jeopardize this unprecedented movement of God’s Spirit.
Uncle Kepha is deeply horrified at the EmCeePeeCee mindset that would condemn cartoonists as “asking for it” when they draw Muhammad. Indeed, Pam and Robert are absolutely right to call attention to how the EmCeePeeCee crowd is too ready to sacrifice the First Amendment to the peeves of one of its clients du jour. But as someone who probably prays for and supports the Evangelization of Muslims, Graham is anti-Jihadi in a very profound and important way.
Mirren10 says
”Being missions-minded, Graham is probably humbly and gratefully aware of a surprising responsiveness among Muslims towards the Gospel and such things as ex-Muslim congregations springing up in places like Kabylia and southeastern Anatolia. Certainly such people were not won to Christ by being called “Raghead”, or having things they held important belittled and mocked. Hence, he would be very wary of doing or saying anything that might jeopardize this unprecedented movement of God’s Spirit.”
Insofar as I understand you Kepha, it seems to me that you are basically saying, in order to bring muslims into the fold of Christianity, it is necessary to buy into, and respect, muslim delusions as to the goodness of mohammed ?
Rather a high price to pay, and surely directly contradictory as to the orders of your Saviour ?
Joseph says
@ Mirren10 you said
Rather a high price to pay, and surely directly contradictory as to the orders of your Saviour ?
_________________________________________________________________
That is exactly right. JESUS said you CAN NOT serve two masters. By bowing to Islam, saying “hey that is great, but here is better” you are trying to serve Satan and GOD.
One must take the stance of Islam is wrong, wrong, wrong.
Kepha says
@Mirren10 and Joseph:
Mirren wrote:
Insofar as I understand you Kepha, it seems to me that you are basically saying, in order to bring muslims into the fold of Christianity, it is necessary to buy into, and respect, muslim delusions as to the goodness of mohammed ?
Whoever said we have to buy into or respect “Muslim delusions as to the goodness of Mohammed’? I’m for respecting Muslims as fellow bearers of the image of God, not Islamic doctrine. I doubt that Franklin Graham has any respect at all for Muhammad’s prophetic claims and has shown on other occasions that he understands perfectly that Muhammad was a predatory, power-mad, lecherous warlord (an immoral Arabian Sheikj, as Mustafa Kemal Ataturk once said). I’m of the same mind.
The bottom line is that I think I can understand perfectly both the viewpoints of Pam and Robert on the one hand and Franklin Graham on the other.
By the same token, when I visit my in-laws, I don’t spit on their shen tan (family altar?), even though I believe that the worship of dead men is idolatry. Similarly, I won’t watch _The Book of Mormon_. It strikes me as a bunch of demi-monde Leftists poking at an easy target–even if I happen to believe that Joseph Smith was an excellent example ffor the case that the early 19th century was the Golden Age of American Hokum-bunkum and flim-flam.
The Gospel is about God–in Jesus Christ–making friends out of enemies. That’s what I think Graham had in mind.
Mirren10 says
”Whoever said we have to buy into or respect “Muslim delusions as to the goodness of Mohammed’?”
You said, Kepha;
”Certainly such people were not won to Christ by being called “Raghead”, or having things they held important belittled and mocked.”
That seems to me to imply that **mohammed** should not be belittled or mocked, as that might prevent muslims from turning to Christianity.
”By the same token, when I visit my in-laws, I don’t spit on their shen tan (family altar?), even though I believe that the worship of dead men is idolatry. Similarly, I won’t watch _The Book of Mormon_. It strikes me as a bunch of demi-monde Leftists poking at an easy target–”
Your two examples are hardly commensurate. A shen tan doesn’t advocate the murder and oppression of those who don’t embrace ancestor worship, and the Mormons, whatever you might think about their theology, don’t advocate the murder and oppression of those who refuse to become Mormons. I don’t believe the character of Smith, although reprehensible in man ways, was in any way analagous to the character of mohammed, either.
In fact, you still seem to be positing Christian missionaries should gloss over the character and deeds of mohammed, in order not to put muslims off from converting to Christianity.
As I said, surely contradictory to the commandments and example of Jesus Christ ?
Joseph says
If a man is drinking dirty, contaminated water(Islam) and you have fresh pure water of life(Christianity) you would never partake of the unclean water to bond with the man.
Instead you tell the man how BAD his water is and offer him the clean water. You also DON’T MIX your pure water with his dirty water, both are then contaminated. If the man still wants to drink his filthy water, that is called free choice. He had his chance not to kiss the lips of death that awaits him.
Bezelel says
When Franklin said “As a Christian I’m offended when people mock my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ…..”
The entire koran mocks Abraham and Isaac and everything they took from the Holy Scriptures and twisted omitted and used to their own selfish ends. A satirical cartoon is definitely the least they deserve for what islam has done. It is not even close to an eye for an eye. No one even got a paper cut.
celtic warriarcanada says
Franklin Graham is your typical third or second generation pious evangelical . He is considered very liberal by the standards of many Fundamentalists and Conservative Reformation Christians like myself . I’ve always found him Naive , Pious and just to nice in a sickly sweet kind of way. And like many NEO EVANGELICALS , he does not take history very seriously ; but is more obsessed with whats new and cool . Perhaps he thinks that we should RESPECT ARYAN TRIBAL PAGANISM ( NAZISM) , JAPANESE IMPERIALIST SHINTOISM, SCIENTOLOGY, ANCIENT ROMAN EMPEROR WORSHIP, etc.UNFORTUNATELY PIOUS NEO EVANGELICALS PARTICULARLY from SEMINARIES like Fuller have endeavored TO SYNTHESIS MARXIST IDEOLOGY WITH CHRISTIANITY in order to MAKE CHRISTIANITY MORE ACCEPTABLE Thus RICK WARREN AND SADDLE BACK ROAD CHURCH.THEY are BASICALLY DOING AND SAYING THE SAME THING AS THE PRESENT POPE.SHAME ON THEM FOR NOT STANDING UP FOR THE VALUES THEIR ANCESTORS BLED AND DIED FOR.THEIR KIND OF CHRISTIANITY IS THE SAME AS PRESIDENT OBAMA’S AND REVEREND WRIGHTS . MORE MARXIST THAN CHRISTIAN .
Kepha says
Calticwarriar:
I share some of the same criticisms of neo-Evangelicalism myself (I am most comfortable in confessional Reformed circles–and the Belgic Confession, which I love, was written by Guido de Bres, who actually went to the stake for his beliefs). I also appreciate the sacrifices made by such as the Sea Beggars of the Netherlands, the Puritans, the Covenanters, etc. However, having been involved in missions myself, I also appreciate a lot of where Graham is coming from. One of the big concerns people like Graham have is that they do not want to spoil what appears to be God’s ripening fruit.
Mirren10 says
”One of the big concerns people like Graham have is that they do not want to spoil what appears to be God’s ripening fruit.”
How would pointing out the truth about mohammed’s character and actions be doing that ?
Isn’t speaking the **truth** fundamental to Christianity ? As I pointed out in my earlier post, I would have thought that going along with mohammedan perceptions that mohammed is a character to be respected and revered, in order to gain conversions to Christianity, ( which would surely be false conversions, if they continue to think mohammed a fit subject for respect and reverence) is akin to saying what is evil is good, which I believe Christ prohibited. Also rather akin to accepting ‘rice bowl’ Christians.
It doesn’t seem to me that sacrificing truth for a spurious short term gain is true to the spirit of Christianity.
fido says
To the blind “moral relativists” the continued attempts to legitimize the 7th century murder cult of islam might seem reasonable as they still view islam as one of the “great religions of the world”. I and many others, however, see it for what it is – a virulently fascist and murderous death cult masquerading as a religion.
There is no “equivalency” between this supremacist ideology and that of the Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, etc. faiths…none at all. ONLY with the islamists do you get the throat slitting, bulldozing, burning and body bombing of innocents by rabid followers of “the prophet” and their qur’an guide book for atrocity. The “moderate” muslims are like the “moderate” nazis of WWII – going along for fear of retribution or in tacit support of what’s being done in the name of their “religion”. Either way it’s reprehensible!
Champ says
Franklin Graham:
…”I disagree with Islam. But just because I disagree, I’m not going to mock them or resort to violence. We need to show respect to people of other races and beliefs. What happened to civility and respect?”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wow someone needs to read the unholy quran and hadith before going public with such ignorant statements.
Kasey says
Respect is something that has to be earned, not one to be expected by default simply because of its alleged “status”.How anyone can have respect for an entity which recommends a violent end for all those of any other or no belief system, other than an Islamic belief, beggars belief? Lethal murderous logic such as that is its reality and the sooner all Western leaders are aware of this, the sooner objective confrontation to Islam will occur and have a chance of long term success against it.
Daniel Triplett says
Christians aren’t required to respect Islam, Allah, or any other false idol.
We’re facing the greatest that the World has ever seen. We all get it, but most of the Western World doesn’t yet.
We must start spreading the word and the truth far and wide, and soon. The Iranians have big plans for us in the very near future. And in the meantime, Christians and Jews are being exterminated around the World In Holocaust fashion.
Twitter is a great way to reach large audiences. And it can be also be used to direct traffic to Robert’s and Pamela’s sites to learn about Islam from the best. Lots of other social networking sites too.
Or make a YouTube video articulating the truth and a realistic plan to extinguish this Satanic Islamic plague. Then broadcast it far and wide. I’m working on one right now.
Robert and Pamela have been indispensable in exposing the truth. We’d all be so much less informed without them, and the Free World owes them their gratitude. But they are an Army of two. We need an Army of millions.
Let’s roll.
Daniel Triplett says
Auto-correct Typo: We’re facing the greatest “threat” the World has ever seen.
DaniEl says
Here’s where you’re wrong, JW.
I Corinthians 10:23
All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify.
Islam is Satan’s lie, and I have nothing but contempt for it, but I also know that many Muslims see the Grace and peace of the Living GOD in us, are convicted, and turn from their wicked ways to the Truth.
Mockery and things like these cartoons only lowers opponents of Islam and takes the high ground away from us.
duh_swami says
Christianity is based on love, not stupidity. Christianity is not a suicide pact with the Devil, which is exactly what appeasement is. Appeasement is to surrender your manhood and accept the chains of slavery. I don’t know about you, but I absolutely refuse to do that.
Always On Watch says
@ EgyptianMuslim,
Did the Prophet Elijah worry about offending the followers of Baal? NO!
Exactly!
And how was Elijah rewarded by Jehovah? Elijah did not have to pass through the veil of death, but rather was taken directly to Paradise.
By not standing up to Muslim supremacists, we had them ammunition — that is, the ammunition that Allah is more powerful than any other god. In a way, dhimmi Christians are recruiting for Allah.
Betty says
mualims need to be tough to turn the other cheek. learn tolerance for his fellow man. their are a lot of things muslims do and other people also but I am not out here killing them for it. the qur’an is an evil book. any thing that it teaches killing, raping, having slaves, torture.and destroying other peoples property. is evil in my eyes. and still but I haven’t killed because of it. and to all muslims on here you as a muslim are no better than any Christian,Jew, or any one else. so don’t set your self up higher than us.because you are not. just because the qur’an says you are the best of people doesn’t mean it is so. the qur’an is a lie. want the truth? read THE HOLY BIBLE.
Pere LaChaise says
Betty, et.al.,
You misunderstand moslem ethics if you think they will suddenly ‘grow up’ & learn to take insult like other, civilized people. The only way that will happen is if they abjure their delusion and ‘apostasize’ (I use inverted commas because apostasy from a pernicious lie is not apostasy but return to sanity). Moslem ethics are those of the Ancient Near East and are relevant to secular dominance, guaranteeing it. Inherently suprematist & intolerant, weakness is ALWAYS a bad thing among them. The only time moslems will appear to forgive and tolerate the rest of us is when they are in no position to dominate us YET. There is always the threat of their gaining ascendancy, and history demonstrates what happens when they do. Until then, they bide their time and act according to the earlier-written suras of their infernal text which preach peace and affability. Their ethic, of a people forever at war with the rest of us, counsels subterfuge and deception as a means to gaining the upper hand among us, at which point the gloves come off and the violence we witness today is unleashed.
The general outbreak of violence wherever moslems are present must indicate to us that they feel they now have the ascendancy. We are wise to take their behavior at face value, and force them back to their quiescent state of ‘persecuted minority’.
To the moslem who really loves his allah and prophet Mahound, the only faithful course of action is violence against us infidels. Only a beaten moslem is peaceful.
Mirren10 says
**Excellent** points, Pere LaChaise.
Until people can bring themselves to understand the mohammedan mindset, and accept that they are *not* ‘just like us’ in their thinking, we will continue to be stymied at every turn.
Geraldo says
Excellent! I enjoy this web site. Thank you for your great work.
vlparker says
I have to agree with many of the people who commented on this essay disagreeing with Robert’s statement that Franklin Graham’s position is understandable. I have never been a fan of Franklin Graham (or of anyone else who thinks they have all the answers to God and the origins of the universe) so I refrained from commenting yesterday. But after giving it some thought and trying to take my personal dislike for Mr. Graham out of the equation, I really don’t see any excuse for his stance on mocking Mohammad.
The whole religion of islam is based on evil and if Christian leaders cannot be bothered to learn the basics of islam, even as Christians are being slaughtered en masse throughout the world, then they should resign their positions. Whether we are talking about Mr. Graham, the Pope or Bishop McManus, there is no excuse IMHO for them to be ignorant of what drives the jihad. There is no excuse for them to be ignorant of what is in the Koran and the Hadiths. Their flock is under assault by a murderous ideology and it is their duty as Christian leaders to learn all they can about what drives the enemy.
If it is not ignorance of islam and Mohammad that is driving this appeasement, if these leaders ARE aware of what islam truly is, but are still insisting that a handful of jihadists have hijacked a peaceful religion, then we have a much bigger problem.
mezcukor says
I love your comment. You should send it to Mr.Graham, the Pope or Bishop McManus, I you do not want to do you give me permission to do so?
Lilithwept says
I agree with you, we need to be letting people like our Senators, Congressmen, the Pope, church leaders etc know how we feel about Islam and what the Quran says. I am drafting letters and emails like this now. Even when we know the recipent of our letter supports muslims or is pro Islam, still write to have it on record. What if a pro Islam leader gets thousands of letters and emails that are anti islam? Huge numbers of letters cant be totally ignored.
As far as Franklin Graham, either as said, he doesnt know what the Quran really says or, he isnt taking into consideration that he may be civilized enough not to disrespect Islam, but Islam certainly will not show him and Christianity the same courtesy. As for respecting Islam, how can show any sort of respect for a religion that has so much hatred toward Christians, and persecutes and kills so many Christians? Is it because the percecuted and killed Christians dont belong to Mr. Graham’s sect of Christianity?
We Christians are a family and like a family we should put aside our squabbles with each other when threatened with the common enemy of Islam. iSIS certainly doesnt Ask “What kind of Christian are you?” before killing you. That just ask ” What religion are you?” ” And if the answer isnt Muslim, you die. Simple.
vlparker says
Feel free to do so.
Savvy Kafir says
Agreed! Free speech is FAR more important than anyone’s religious sensitivities. And many Christian leaders still show a shocking and inexcusable ignorance of the central tenets of Islam, 13 years after 9/11, every time they address the issue.
wtd says
The respected reverend has recognized the evil of Islam in prior reports, to his credit.
\HOWEVER, he shames his legacy since he should also have a better recall and understanding of Christendom’s history of tolerance of Islamic hegemony.
His suggestions to ‘tolerate’,/i>, even ‘respect’ Islam demonstrates a callous disregard for centuries of ‘forgiveness’, ‘turning the other cheek’, ‘tolerance’ and ‘respect’ towards Islam ALL utterly failed to tame the Islamic beast.
Byzantium shrieked from unrelenting torment and critically bled out at the point of the blade of Islam for nearly four centuries before finally resulting in the Crusades!
The violence of those Crusades were directly a result of similar advice resembling that of this contemporary reverend.
Such repeatedly misguided and utterly failed advice is why we now recognize Constantinople as Istanbul, and why that region’s once Christian majority which regularly celebrated mass at the Hagia Sophia has been annihilated by the sword of Islam.
Respect that? Not on “your” life, reverend. NEVER!
Aussie Infidel says
So Franklin Graham believes that “We need to show respect to people of other races and beliefs.” And he asks,”What happened to civility and respect?”
Under normal circumstances, they would be perfectly reasonable suggestions. Of course we should show respect and civility – to those who also play by the Golden Rule. However, in Islam, the Golden Rule only applies to other Muslims. There is no such reciprocity from Muslims to those of other faiths. Muslims have no respect for other religions (or Atheists like me), so why should we have any respect for them?
I find the Quranic commands to wage jihad against unbelievers (Quran 2:191-193, 4:74), offensive. Killing other human beings, simply because of their religious beliefs, is far more offensive than the drawing of a mere cartoon. I find it offensive to command Muslims to “strike terror into the hearts of the unbelievers” (Quran 8:12, 8:39). I also find it offensive to subject Jews and Christians to dhimmitude, and to execute men of all other faiths, and enslave their women (Qurqn 9:5, 9:29, 9:73). Only a criminal ideology would command such a thing – which is why Islam should not even be accorded recognition as a religion. Islam provided the motivation for both the Mafia and Hitler’s Nazis. Does Franklin Graham also suggest that we respect these disreputable groups too? Graham says, “As a Christian I’m offended when people mock my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.” But would he take a rifle and kill his critics? I doubt it – but pious militant Muslims do! Surely he sees the difference?
Does Graham understand the history of Islam? He sounds like one of those Christians, clinging tenuously to his Saviour’s advice to “turn the other cheek.” But does he believe Jesus meant that Christians should respect those who continue to plot their demise? Does he believe that Christians should either become martyrs for their cause, or “respect Islam” to the extent that they submit to the will of Allah? When people start “respecting” a pernicious ideology like Islam, whose prime directive is world conquest for Allah, they eventually lose their freedoms and rights, and their civilization becomes extinct.
Shelly says
You know your stuff. Very well stated :). Islam is a very dangerous religion and one we all need to stand up against. Knowing Islam as well as you do you probably also know that it’s not a religion at all but a political system that uses religion to further its agenda. I once heard someone say, the only peaceful Muslim is a back sliden Muslim.
Pere LaChaise says
Shelly,
Right again. Islam is inherently ‘scripturally’ violent and deceptive and history bears it out. Problem is that Christianity has a bad rap in quondam Christendom, where traitorous oikophobia+xenophilia wear the mask of ‘multiculturalism’.
Let no one forget that at the core of Christian witness stands the Man of Sorrows who endured spitting, blows and death by crucifixion for the sake of the human race, whom He loves. The scandal of Christ is that He was hung on a tree, reviled of Jews from that moment to this as a ‘transgressor’, though He fulfilled all righteousness. Moslems claim to honor Him but remove the scandal which is the means of our salvation by denying that ‘a prophet’ could die a dishonorable death (despite the fact of the Old Testament that the Jews killed most of their prophets). Moslems don’t need Christ, because they follow a law, regardless of how his salvific death on the Cross lifted the Law’s burden from us. Many pseudo-Christians (JW’s, Mormons, Adventists, etc.) do the same thing, imposing burdens on followers who do not understand the sufficiency of Christ’s sacrifice.
Jesus said He would give no sign but the sign of Jonah to an unbelieving generation. Moslems refuse to believe that God would allow his Chosen One to be dishonored. We Christians know that to be dishonored by those of this world for the sake of the One who is above it and created it is a privilege and honor beyond any men can bestow on us.
So when the Rt Rev. Spencer compares a Christian’s response to insults given to our God to moslem ire at slights to their so-called prophet, he is missing the entire point of his own religion. I suggest he return to seminary for a refresher, better yet, take sabbatical in one of the regions under the moslem sword and experience the privilege of being reviled for the sake of his own Savior, for “blessed are you when men revile you and cast you out and say all manner of evil against you falsely for My sake; rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven.” Christian witness is to die, not kill, for Christ’s sake, and to await His salvation. We who do have no need to be protected from the insults of men.
Shmooviyet says
Indeed– very well-stated!
Franklin Graham poses the question, “What happened to civility and respect?” to the wrong people. How he cannot see that is beyond comprehension.
Kidrock says
European whites tsk tsk, I think its a good thing that the Christianity leadership would be transfer to South America or Asia. Once here political correctness does not work. And Christians here are Racist if you think like your fellow white Leftist brothers and sisters. Even if the western Leftist quote those teaching by Jesus we would just say duhhhh we are not stupid like many of the left leaning Christians in Europe and US.
Martin Vink says
Franklin Graham does not understand Islam. Saying that Islam is a religion like Christianity is denying the obvious. Islam and Christianity are entirely incompatible. Islam is of satan and satan will always make war on Christians. Conceding anything to satan is not a matter of courtesy . . . it is death. He knows that thousands of Christians are being slaughtered, yer Franklin Graham is blind.
We need to engage the enemy, not ask them to dinner.
RG says
I am deeply disappointed and shocked by Franklin Graham’s comment that we need to show muslims “civility and respect” on the grounds of showing “respect to people of other races and beliefs”. Islam is by no means a RACE of humankind, nor is it a “religious” belief, per se. Islam is purely and simply a doctrine of DEMONS! Muslims will never learn the truth about their system of lies if Christians simply continue to pander and cajole them. Muslims need to be EXPOSED for the lies that they believe and knowingly propagate!
ISLAM IS EVIL, MR. GRAHAM – DON’T DEFEND IT, NOT FOR A MINUTE!!!!
RG says
The now almost defunct symbol – WWJD (what would Jesus do?) is applicable here. Frankly, Franklin G., I can tell you with a strong sense of authority that JESUS WOULD CONDEMN ISLAM just as He did all of the false religious leaders of His day. He made no bones about calling them WHITE-WASHED SEPULCHERS (tombs) and HYPOCRITES – no pun intended!
ISLAM IS EVIL – DON’T DEFEND IT, NOT FOR A MINUTE!!!!
celtic warriarcanada says
I’m with you RG. EXACTLY !
Dave schwep says
Robert Spenser makes an important point.
As much as we respect Franklin Graham, he is wrong in his assumption here.
The apostle Paul called out false prophets by name to warn others
of the perils of following in those false and pernicious ways. Certainly warnings of false prophets
such as mohammed can be displayed in many ways ( verbal, written and visual ) This indeed would include the right cartoons which makes sense in this increasingly ‘visual’ society we live in.
More Ham Ed says
More cartoons. More ham!
Jim Hancock says
Here’s why they are not wrong. Robert Spencer can do what he thinks best in the fight against false religions, but Christians don’t have that option. We are to be like our Savior, dead to self but alive to him and his purposes and his METHODS. Jesus told his disciples that wanted to call down fire from heaven, that they did not know what manner of spirit they were of (i.e., they were not hearing from God nor did they understand his methods). Could Jesus have not identified those that blindfolded and struck him, come down off the cross to save himself, etc., etc.? Of course he could and when he comes back that is exactly what he will be doing. It’s called the Day of Vengeance of Almighty God. But for now he says we speak the truth in love and suffer the consequence. He is the avenger and he will avenge perfectly.
In 1 Corinthians 9:19-23, the Apostle Paul states his method for sharing the gospel with the lost. I don’t see holding a cartoon contest in there to mock the Jews or one to mock the false gods of the Greeks. What makes the difference is that his concern is for the gospel – that it might find a place in the heart and mind of a lost person. He identifies with them where he can – he does not compromise in essentials. He would never compromise his message or the Word of God. But he is not intentionally rude or out to provoke a fight. Will the majority of Muslims listen or have a rational conversation with a Christian trying to convince them of the truth claims of Christ and the error of Islam? Some will, perhaps, but probably most won’t. But for the few that will and the few that might “watch how a true believer in Christ lives” we Christians should be the salt and light that the Bible tells us to be. Wise as serpents but harmless as doves. Yes, we are in a war, but the Bible states that we do not wage warfare the way the world does. Our weapons are spiritual. Witness Daniel and his 3 friends in the book that bears his name. They each had their faith tested. God delivered them. Isaiah was sawn in half and Steven was stoned for his witness. The first church did not immediately hold a “draw a Pharisee or your favorite Sanhedrin member contest.” They fled Jerusalem. The prophetic scriptures state that in the end, the world will get increasingly evil and persecution of Jews and Christians will increase. The antichrist (whoever he turns out to be) will wage war against the saints and overcome them. That means he’ll kill the majority of them. Part of the problem is that the majority of people are so invested in their own personal lives that they do not care what is happening in our country until it effects them personally. How could over 50 million babies be aborted in the U.S.? Easy… most people don’t care because they are not the baby that’s being murdered. But they may be the people who made the baby. Doing the right thing or doing what’s convenient – that’s often the decision? Our president said he didn’t want to “punish” one or both of his daughters with a baby. We are at the point in this country that even if there was not one single Muslim that would cut off the head of a Christian or a Jew there are plenty of university professors, media personalities, Hollywood types and (I saved the best for last) politicians that would love to. That is what is in their heart. They might not want to do it themselves but they will be glad to hold the cloak of others that are doing the stoning (or head cutting). Christians are to speak the truth in love. We are instructed not to throw our pearls before swine but we are to be ready to give an answer to those who ask us of the reason for the hope we have – with humility and love. Hard to show or demonstrate humility and love while you’re doing the cartoon contest. Others can but we can’t. Our job is to hold up the standard and to be faithful unto death in this dispensation of grace. That dispensation that will end very soon as God Almighty turns his attention back to the nation of Israel and who will again show himself as the vengeful God of the Old Testament. I can’t speak for the Rev. Graham but those who have dedicated their lives to being a disciple of Christ are not ignorant of evil. Our reluctance to sponsor cartoon contests doesn’t mean that we don’t know Islam is evil or we are stupidly naive concerning their motives or methods or we are too chicken to speak the truth and confront evil. It doesn’t mean that at some point we wouldn’t take up arms to defend or save our families from those that would harm us or that Christians are total pacifists. But as a general rule it is not our first line of defense. Many in the middle east are doing what the early Christians did. Coming here soon. Jesus told his followers that when you are persecuted in one place to flee to another – but continue to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom. Cartoon contest won’t stop the judgement on America or the rise of evil in our midst. Repentance and turning to God’s solution for our sin problem might. Outside of that option, we have no hope, NONE in defeating not just Islam, but the rest of the evil and lawlessness that we do not even seem to care about that is destroying our country. Islam is an easy target. What of the evil in our own hearts? Simple… we think we have none or that God grades on a curve. “My sin not as bad as the suicide bomber’s so I’m basically ok.” The real war is against God, his holy character and those that love and (most importantly) obey him by those that hate him – and would kill him if they possessed the power to do so and happily enthrone themselves in his place.
For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ II Cor. 10:4&5
More Ham Ed says
Your post is excessively lengthy, relies on out-of-context exaggeration, it is also carelessly unformatted, and in essence seems to simply be “Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof” – you really need to learn to listen more and talk less. You also sound like someone who would fight off a home invader, who is attacking your child, by offering them milk and cookies.
Renee says
In your reasoning, ANY cartoon would be wrong. Because cartoons do joke with politicians etc to make you think. Are these forbidden from a christian point of view? So limits on freedom of speech? Then also, from a christian perspective, why not limits on freedom of religion, which means being allowed to serve the one true God of the bible, and not Allah.
Wolfgang Herfort says
My impression is that Father Botros Zacharias does the right thing. He confronts Muslims, or better Ismaelites (as “Muslim” means “believer”) with the readings of those Hadithes which paint a “lively” picture of the Prophet. The result: He can win souls in the thousands, since millions of Ismaelites have no desire for Holy War etc, just want to be sincere people and live in peace with G-D and the rest of humans — if there were not evil preaching and teaching derived from Quran, and in particular, from Hadithes.
Opposition to Hadithes is found also in the Islamic world, even sharper criticism than by Christianity:
http://www.quranaloneislam.net/hadiths-the-cancer-of-islam
So, I oppose the terminology “the Muslims” as an Ummah that by itself has no other desire than to eliminate the “nonbelievers”. That is more the terminology of radicals, and whoever does that, is radical – be it Muslim or non-Muslim. Also I cannot understand why not to differentiate and accept that e.g. the Alevites are opposed to Sharia and Hadithes. Nevertheless they do read from the Quran — but not everything! What a difference to the American allies, the Saudis?
Hatred provokes hatred — The haters among the Muslims provoke the haters among the Christians and the Jews. Not good!
Shelly says
I think I have to agree with Pastor Graham. I don’t agree with LGBT but I wouldn’t state an anti gay event.
Mo says
@ Shelly
“I think I have to agree with Pastor Graham. I don’t agree with LGBT but I wouldn’t state an anti gay event.”
Can you show me the evidence that this was an “anti-Islam” event? (Or what an anti-Islam event would even be?)
Linda Rivera says
Franklin Graham: I’m not going to mock them or resort to violence. We need to show respect to people of other races and beliefs. What happened to civility and respect?”
Political correctness – Cultural Marxism.
Why did Graham mention resorting to violence when Robert and Pamela never said a word about violence? The ONLY ones threatening violence are Muslims and this is what Graham should have stated. Graham made it appear Robert and Pamela are violent!
Graham says we need to show respect for a murderous ideology – whose followers have barbarically murdered hundreds of millions of non-Muslim innocents over 1,400 years.
Genesis 4:10 And God said, “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood cries out to Me from the ground.”
Every single day Muslims murder Christians and constantly burn down churches. Asking people to respect the greatest and most barbaric threat humanity has ever faced, Islam, is cowardly, cultural Marxism and inhuman and will bring about the suicide of our Western nations and enormous suffering such as never been seen on the face of the earth. Rivers of blood will flow in our nations streets.
May our Precious, Wonderful God help us in the years to come.
Aussie Infidel says
Linda Rivera, You are partly right. It is often a matter of political correctness, and with some people, cultural Marxism is also an issue (I came from the Left – so I understand how socialists think and why). But there are many other causes too, like plain old ignorance – and because of that, many Christians see no evil, hear no evil, and speak no evil against the ‘religion of peace’.
As you said, Robert and Pamela did not resort to violence. Pious, militant, fanatical Muslims attacked their exhibition, with the intention of killing them – and no doubt many of their patrons. On that issue, Rev Graham is barking up the wrong tree. He argues that the Muslims were offended, and Robert and Pamela should not have provoked them. But most Westerners (particularly Americans), would regard such criticism as their inalienable human rights to expose what is wrong with such an intolerant and belligerent ideology. How else are we to protect our culture against those whose covert agenda it is, to
“destroy their miserable house from within!” (according to the Muslim Brotherhood ‘Secret Project’).
Freedom of speech is our most important freedom, because without it, all our other freedoms can so easily be lost. Regretably, here in Australia that is not an absolute guarantee (as it is in the US). Because of legislation enacted by cultural Marxists, criticizing a religion, could have people hauled up before the Human Rights Commission (as has already happened). Criticism of a religion – or any other idea – should never be an indictable offense and be banned – that is simply ‘shooting the messenger’!
Islam imposes such a psychological straight-jacket on Muslims, that it restricts their cognitive development to the point where many of them never make it through ‘social puberty’, to become emotionally mature, rational, tolerant adults. They remain trapped with an immature mindset, in a restrictive culture, where they continue to behave like social and emotional cripples – or children
throwing tantrums at the slightest provocation. Islam produces far more fanatics than any other religion, because its Shariah stipulates rigid conformity to ‘Islamic values’ and intolerance against non-Muslims – and in many different ways, Islam is a religion which rules by fear.
Islam is a violent, evil ideology, NOT BECAUSE IT IS “SATANIC” OR “DEMONIC”, or for any other ‘religious’ reason (as many here often suggest). There is no evidence whatever for supernatural influences in our lives. Having grown up within the Christian faith, I understand where they are coming from. But they are wrong! On the contrary, the evil, pernicious nature of Islam has EVERYTHING TO DO WITH BASIC PSYCHOLOGY, simply because it was the product of an evil, pernicious, Arabian warlord. There are people like Muhammad, with dysfunctional, psychopathic mindsets in every society on Earth (I have known many of them professionally), but nowadays they often end up in prison for the crimes they commit. However, Muhammad lived at a time and place, where there was no ‘rule of law’. He was a liar, a highway man, a warlord, an abductor of women and children, a bigamist, a murderer, a thief and a rapist – and above all (as many psychopaths are), he was a ‘control freak’.
By both good luck and a sociopath’s deceitful guile, Muhammad conned his fellow Arabs into believing that he was a “messenger of God” – that he had received “revelations” from Allah (via Gabriel of course), commanding them to abandon their Pagan beliefs and follow his example. “If you love Allah, then follow me.” (Q3:31). Muhammad then raided and conquered the Pagan, Jewish and Christian communities in Arabia. “I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.” (Sahih Muslim 19.4366). Does the Rev Graham (and other Christian apologists for the ‘religion of peace’), understand that is the reason why today, there are no churches in Saudi Arabia? And why Jews and Christians are rapidly disappearing in other parts of the Islamic world? Personally, I have no religious beliefs, but I believe in freedom of religion, and cannot sanction such barbarity (not all Atheists are ‘evil and wicked’). However many Christians are turning their backs on their own people – and their heritage. Shame on them! Have they no spine to stand up to these murderous Muhammadans? Being meek and mild is no defence against the Islamic jihad.
Muhammad’s legacy, Islam, dominates every aspect of a Muslim’s life, from the cradle to the grave, and robs them of the ability to think and speak for themselves. “It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should [thereafter] have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error.” (Q33:36). Muhammad was victorious largely because of his campaign of terror, “We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve [Christians] … And their refuge will be the Fire … ” (Q3:151). “And how many cities have We destroyed, and Our punishment came to them at night or while they were sleeping at noon.” (Q7:4).
Islam is a religion which rules by fear. “O you who have believed, fear Allah and speak words of appropriate justice.” (Q33:70). Muhammad promoted himself shamelessly – “And indeed, you are of a great moral character.” (Q68:4) – He instilled in his followers a love of their fellow Muslims, but he preached hatred of disbelievers and violence against them – “Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are forceful against disbelievers, merciful among themselves.” (Q48:29).
Militant Muslims today, are simply attempting to emulate their prophet’s behavior and example, and relentlessly and fanatically obey his commands. The placards in their interminable street protests say it all: “BEHEAD THOSE WHO INSULT THE PROPHET OF ISLAM”, “ISLAM WILL CONQUER THE WORLD”, etc, etc. And these are the people we should “respect”??
Perhaps Rev Graham should also reflect on these verses:
“And from those who say, “We are Christians” … We caused among them animosity and hatred until the Day of Resurrection…” (Q5:14).
“O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you – then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.” (Q5:51).
“Indeed, he who associates others with Allah [the Trinity] – Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers.”(Q5:72).
“Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth [Islam] from those who were given the Scripture [Jews & Christians] – [fight] until they give the jizyah [protection tax] willingly while they are humbled [as dhimmis or second class citizens].” (Quran 9:29).
Naively, some Christians (who obviously haven’t read as much Islamic scripture as they need to), have told me that they “take comfort” from the following verse:
“You will surely find the most intense of the people in animosity toward the believers [to be] the Jews and those who associate others with Allah [Christians]; and you will find the nearest of them in affection to the believers those who say, “We are Christians.” That is because among them are priests and monks and because they are not arrogant.” (Q5:82). Firstly, this verse is ambiguous (no surprise there), and secondly it hasn’t stopped the killing of Christains, by the mujahideen of the Islamic State. How does Rev Graham propose to stop that slaughter? By more appeasement and “respect”? It hasn’t worked for 1,400 years! Why should it work now?
Agent of Liberty says
May the next Mohammad Cartoon fest have 25000 first prize. Mohammad Cartoon lalapaloosa complete with mosh pit of Korans to stomp on!
Wellington says
On the one hand, Franklin Graham, as evinced by many statements he has made over several years, seems to grasp at least some of the profoundly troubling doctrines in Islam, but, on the other hand, he now says that Christians and other non-Muslims should respect Islam, at least to the extent of not mocking it. These two positions by Graham cannot be reconciled because what is profoundly troubling, if not downright evil, should be mocked as well as crushed. No one should show respect for any ideology which assigns to certain groups of human beings second-class status or death for whatever reason and regardless if the grouping is based on belief (Islam), race and ethnicity (Nazism), socio-economic status (Marxism) or whatever.
Any ideology or institution (e.g., slavery) which treats with a portion of our species as inferior in this world and to be treated as such in this world is, I submit, ipso facto evil. Islam, like Nazism and Marxism does exactly this.
Other religions may very well indicate some kind of punishment in the NEXT WORLD for not properly adhering to a particular religion, but only Islam allows for punishment, i.e., inferior status or death, in THIS WORLD for not doing so (and to be done not just by Allah but by Allah’s followers here on earth). More than any other single element to be found in Islam, this is what makes it most troubling and most menacing. In fact, minus this element, Islam would be largely innocuous (though still riddled with a lot of silly notions) and a site like Jihad Watch would never have had to come into existence in the first place.
Oliver says
To Mr. Graham– Where has the respect and civility been when ISIS (and other Muslim groups)
1. stormed a synagogue and murdered five people-for the sin of being Jews and praying?
2. When a Muslim terrorist ran over and killed an 8 MONTH OLD JEWISH(WITH AMERICAN CITIZENSHIP, INCIDENTALLY)–in her carriage? AND WAS PRAISED .
3. Where was civility when three Jewish teenagers were murdered ?
4. Where has civility been when the OVER A THOUSAND YEAR OLD CITY OF Nineveh (possibly spelled wrong) was destroyed; not to mention the numerous Christian churches -many of which date back centuries.
not only in the Middle east, but elsewhere.
Uncle Vladdi says
Nothing in Christianity says we have to pre-forgive criminals for ongoing crimes.
Islam is a crime-gang slandering God by blaming Him for all of their own crimes.
Franklin Graham says we are wrong to mock it, and should in stead “respect” it!
He personally doesn’t dare to insult islam, so he demands we should all “respect” it:
Like O’Reilly and Trump, as the pressure builds, the cowardly traitors reveal them selves:
Franklin Graham said:
“What this event was doing in Texas was mocking Islam. I disagree with [them].”… “society is lacking civility,” and the “folks in Garland were wrong” to strike that tone.
“I think we need to show respect and civility,” he said. “We need to respect one another … and those that believe differently [from my faith], I’m not going to mock them.”
*HEY FRANKLIN! EVEN JESUS MOCKED THOSE PROTO-MUSLIMS WHO DIDN’T BELIEVE IN HIM, CALLING THEIR EVIL DOGMAS “DOG FOOD!”*
(Mat 15:21-28; Mark 7:24-30).
It’s a good thing Jesus had the courage to die for your cowardly masochism, because if the roles were reversed and you truly had to risk taking up your own cross and following him, you obviously wouldn’t be up to it!
This isn’t the first time Graham has adopted the liberal masochists’ line – that we should all just Submit to earthly “Authority” and be good little slaves to our fears.
The heir to Billy Graham’s evangelical empire offered up this “simple” piece of advice for “Blacks, Whites, Latinos, and everybody else” hoping to survive an encounter with the police:
“Most police shootings can be avoided. It comes down to respect for authority and obedience. If a police officer tells you to stop, you stop. If a police officer tells you to put your hands in the air, you put your hands in the air. If a police officer tells you to lay down face first with your hands behind your back, you lay down face first with your hands behind your back. It’s as simple as that. Even if you think the police officer is wrong — YOU OBEY.”
Clearly, Graham’s message resonated with a core group of Americans: almost 200,000 individuals “liked” the message on Facebook, with an astounding 83,000 fans sharing his words of advice with their own friends, none of whom seem to recall that Jesus Christ, whom they claim to follow and model their lives after, not only stood up to the police state of his day but was put to death for it.
JESUS DIED IN A POLICE STATE by John W. Whitehead Rutherford Institute
http://vladdisblog.blogspot.ca/2015/05/jesus-died-in-police-state-franklin.html
Rossbro says
Let’s have ‘Art Shows’ daily in every town in the World. With armed guards. Soon those who disagree with freedom would be gone.
Lets get it straight says
Dr Graham would you build a church in A Muslim nation?
Kepha says
@Mirren10
As far as I understand him, I do not think Franklin Graham is urging us to gloss over the evils and falsehoods of Muhammad, and nor do I. The whole issue is that there is such a thing as tact in dealing with flesh and blood people.
As for my in-laws’ shen tan, the intolerance of the Buddhist and Daoist religions is often glossed over. One of the things that the very rebellion that drove my in-laws’ ancestors out of the Zhong Yuan (Central Plain) to hide in the mountains of southern China (that of Huang Cao against the Tang Dynasty) did was massacre all Muslims, Jews, and Christians in Guangzhou when it occupied the place. And don’t forget the Boxer Rebellion. I’ve communed with and received instruction from descendants of some of its Chinese victims.
Please note that I have merely said that I can see where Franklin Graham is coming from; I have not condemned Pam and Robert as stupid, wrong, evil, or deserving the attempted attack.
Dirka Dirka says
I have told more than one person who demanded I “respect” them this – You do not understand what the word respect means. I respect those who I admire and look up to as models of behavior to be emulated. I will be polite to you, but I do not respect you. Further, I will be polite to you only so long as you are polite to me. islam is polite to no one, not its followers and certainly not other religions or faiths. (intentional non-capitalization, btw) I have no respect for islam and further believe it will be the driving factor precipitating the next major world conflict, which will result in such a catastrophic loss of life as to make the previous world wars look like minor traffic incidents or at least a mild football dispute.
I salute Mr. Spencer and Ms. Geller for their continued work and from what I have been reading in comments on incidents it appears a lot of the public are becoming more aware of the dangers posed by islam, at least I hope.