As I wrote recently, Muhammad is now the man we all must love. Clear Channel, as my AFDI colleague Pamela Geller explains here, shows what that means: they readily accepted the Muslim Brotherhood group ICNA’s deceptive ad about Muhammad, but refused our ad critical of Muhammad, and even refused our ad quoting Muhammad from mainstream Islamic sources, since the quotes don’t portray him in a positive light.
Clear Channel readily ran atheist ads criticizing belief in God in general, and had no trouble running “Palestinian” anti-Israel hate propaganda, but quoting words attributed to Muhammad that might make Americans less ignorant and complacent regarding the jihad threat? No way. 
It is not illegal in the United States, not yet anyway, to think that Muhammad was something less than the perfect example for all human conduct that the Qur’an says he is (33:21). Criticism of Muhammad is forbidden in Islamic law, not American law. And it is, of course, the goal of all jihad groups to compel non-Muslims to obey Islamic law.
Please contact Clear Channel and politely and courteously tell them that what they are doing here is unconscionable, and aids and abets the sinister agenda of groups like ICNA, which is indeed to impose Sharia upon Americans — a system of laws that denies not only the freedom of speech, but the freedom of conscience and the equality of rights before the law of women and non-Muslims.
“Clear Channel Refuses AFDI Ads Countering ICNA’s
Lies with the Truth About Muhammad,” by Pamela Geller, June 17, 2015:
A good many Atlas readers have written me over the past couple of weeks, concerned about a deceptive ad that ICNA is running in a number of American cities. The Islamic Circle of North America is an Islamic organization that has been probed by the FBI for ties to terrorism. They are running a deceptive Muhammad propaganda campaign (above). You may remember their pro-Sharia for America ad campaign here.
So we created a counter campaign of truth, “The Truth About Muhammad.” Clear Channel rejected our ad, saying it wasn’t very nice.
So we submitted a different ad, using Muhammad’s own quotes (below). That way Clear Channel could not say we were editorializing or opining.
ICNA works closely with radical Islamic organizations and invites radical speakers to its conferences:
ICNA was named in the Muslim Brotherhood document — titled “An Explanatory Memorandum on the General Strategic Goal for the Group in North America” — as one of the Brotherhood’s 29 likeminded “organizations of our friends” that shared the common goal of destroying America and turning it into a Muslim nation. These “friends” were identified by the Brotherhood as groups that could help teach Muslims “that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and ‘sabotaging’ its miserable house by their hands … so that … God’s religion [Islam] is made victorious over all other religions.”
Clear Channel rejected our ad.
The subversive, supremacist, Muslim Brotherhood organization known as the Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA) launched a new billboard campaign designed to mislead Americans and lull them into complacency regarding the jihad threat. And so my human rights organization, the American Freedom Defense Initiative (AFDI), is once again doing what we always do: countering lies with truth.
ICNA’s billboards in Atlanta claim that “Muhammad — peace be upon him — believed in peace, social justice, women’s rights,” along with a phone number to find out more about Islam. They’re planning on having 100 of these billboards around the country by the end of the year, while hosting conferences in various cities around the country about Sharia and Muhammad.
We are countering ICNA’s lies with the truth about Muhammad. Our ad reads, “Muhammad believed in war, denial of rights to women, denial of rights to non-Muslims, deceit of unbelievers,” and directs people to an AFDI website, TruthAboutMuhammad.org. At that site, we lay out abundant evidence for what we say about Muhammad – evidence taken from core Islamic texts.
We submitted our ads to go up in Atlanta in the same areas as the ICNA kitman billboards: Camp Creek Parkway at Desert Drive; at Mountain Industrial Boulevard at Stone Mountain Freeway; and at Chamblee Tucker Road at I-285.
ICNA is dedicated to “establishing a place for Islam in America” – which means a place for jihad and a place for Sharia. ICNA, like the Hamas-tied Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), is a terror front group whose “Muslim advocacy” front masks their true Islamic supremacist agenda. Despite the carefully constructed myth surrounding Muslim Brotherhood groups in America, advanced by a hostile and pro-jihadist media, the truth about these subversives is out there.
The Muslim Brotherhood group ICNA is lying to Americans about Muhammad, Islam and Sharia in order to advance a false narrative about the most extreme and radical ideology on the face of the earth. Period. They don’t want Americans to know the truth that the gendercide of honor killings, the clitoridectomies, the stonings, and the 1,400 years of cultural annihilations and enslavements are all Sharia-mandated and inspired by Muhammad’s example.
Clear Channel rejected our ad — here are my notes from our conversations with Jack Jessen of Clear Channel, who said that he “cannot run” our ad. I asked Mr. Jessen why, and he said that it had a “negative connotation to it.”
I told him that I was using direct quotes from Muhammad. But he said it was “very negative-based” and that he “considered it an attack” on ICNA. I said that I hadn’t even mentioned ICNA and that the ICNA ad wasn’t honest. I explained that the ICNA is a terror-tied group and explained their background.
I said that we didn’t oppose his running it, because it’s a free country. But if he was going to run that kind of propaganda, he had to allow a counterpoint. He had to allow the truth. At least our ads are quotes, direct quotes from Muhammad.
Mr. Jessen admitted he “didn’t know enough about the details of it,” but he just knows “that’s the way he perceived it.”
I reiterated that I was not attacking ICNA in the ad — I even offered to change the layout, the colors. I explained that he was running something that is completely and utterly false because he perceives it as good. But it is not good. I explained that he was helping to disarm the American people in a very grave threat.
I told Mr. Jessen that I was willing to work with him. I changed the ad once, but for him to say absolutely no was just so wrong. It’s unconscionable.
He suggested I talk to another company in Atlanta. I asked if he knew of a company in Atlanta that would run it. He said he did not.
So I responded that it was Clear Channel that ran the ICNA ad. How did he reconcile that?
He could not answer. I gave him primary sources of the quotes. So who am I attacking? Mohammad said it.
He said he didn’t recognize the names of the sources of my quotes.
“I have been made victorious through terror” — Sahih al-Bukhari 2977
http://sunnah.com/bukhari/56/
186 “I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women).” — Sahih al-Bukhari 304
“War is deceit.” — Sahih al-Bukhari 3029
He admitted he used wikipedia to vet our ad.
He admitted that he was in “a difficult position.”
I said, you’re an advertising company that is obviously taking issue-related ads. So if this ad doesn’t go up, you know that Clear Channel will come under attack for not taking this ad, because they are showing a preference.
He said he would talk to his people in corporate and get back to me.
He never did.
Clear Channel: jackjessen@clearchannel.com
Clear Channel Outdoor
1200 Wilson Way SE # C
Smyrna, GA
(678) 309-0085Clear Channel Broadcasting
1819 Peachtree Rd #700
Atlanta, GA
(404) 367-0640Clear Channel
315 Chester Ave SE
Atlanta, GA
(404) 581-1901


Champ says
Wow talk about *false* advertising!!!
katnis says
Muhammed believed that the earth did not rotate around the sun.
Speaking to university students in the United Arab Emirates cleric, Sheikh Bandar al-Khaibari claimed that the Earth is stationary and does not move around the Sun. Check out the video:
Huck Folder says
Robert:
Can the American Family Foundation help? Or is that another group which has had success in the past?
How to ‘boycott’ this particular group?
There must be some way to hit them where it hurts.
Are they denying you your First Amendment rights?
gravenimage says
Huck Folder wrote:
Are they denying you your First Amendment rights?
…………………………
Technically, they are not, because Clear Channel is a private company, and not an arm of the government.
That being said, though, the idea that a supposedly non-political company would act to promote Islam and squash any criticism of that foul creed out of ignorance and “political correctness” is quite appalling, and they should know that many of their clients and those who are customers of their clients are *very* disturbed by this. Let them know.
Celtic says
It is indeed a huge joke. But actually I do believe that the Muslims who ran this add really believe in the crap which is stated on the sign. Mohammed loved Peace? LOL
Lee says
Hi Celtic, why do you think ICNA must believe the words of their ad? Muhammad declared war on humanity until we submit to him and his cult, and he instructed his followers to do *anything* that was required to defeat us, including lying – as ICNA surely are.
I’ve never met an individual Muslim who denied Muhammad chopped the heads off hundreds of people – they simply say it was justified. Would an entire Muslim *organization* think Muhammad was some kind of hippy? No one in ICNA interested in their own religion?
This is simply part of the Muslim war on us, and Clear Channel are choosing their side – as have several non-Muslim liars-for-Islam among journalists and politicians. They must be made to regret their choice.
tilda says
It is indeed false advertising.
The question is: Can they be sued for false advertising???
(I don’t have the answer, but it would be an interesting court case.)
Lia Wissing says
More important, check how Mr Romney is involved in Clear Channel& see which broadcasts CC funds.
Canuck says
False advertising for sure. EXAMPLE: http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/06/muslim-clerics-those-who-insult-muhammad-have-no-right-to-live
Gary says
Muhammad was plagiarist, a con artist, a highwayman, a liar, an assassin, a paedophile, a shameless womanizer, a promiscuous, cheating husband, a rapist, an enslaver, a genocidal mass murderer, a desert pirate, a psychopathic warmonger, an anti-Semite, an intolerant bigot, a spineless coward, and a calculating and ruthless tyrant.
Brian says
All in a nutshell Gary. Muhammad the no prophet was a psychopath.
duh_swami says
By modern standards, he would have multiple diagnosis. There was more than one thing wrong with him…I used to know a man in the institution who had symptoms of every known psychosis.
Paul says
In spite of substantial cash prizes offered by ex-muslims Dr Ali Sina
and IQ al Rassooli to disprove the types of things you’ve said about
the “prophet” (pig piss be upon him), not a single person has been
able to step up to the challenge and claim such a tantalisingly huge
amount of money. I wish everybody knew about this. What an advert
for the truth that would be!
No Fear says
Mohammed encouraged his soldiers to rape the wives of the dead enemy fighters.
When they hesitated to commit rape he invented a Quran verse to encourage them to do it.
h t t p : / / w w w . thereligionofpeace.com/muhammad/myths-mu-rape.htm
Paul says
It’s almost as if Alan could read Mu-Ham-Mad’s mind!
Edward says
To think that I live in the same city where clear channel has its corporate office’s.
Perhaps, that’s why the principal owners always suffer in one way or another.
I’m not trying to be judgmental, but only an observation……thinking that Divine Intervention really exists and that we are in the middle of what ever errors they commit.
God relieve us from this unwanted bondage!
CC is kowtowing to Islam it seems.
Linde Barrera says
Thank you for the names, addresses, numbers, and websites. I will be corresponding tomorrow in favor of free speech and running the counter ads. God bless you Pamela, Robert and everyone on your teams.
Angemon says
And God forbids he actually educates himself on the subject. Can you imagine if he searched the islamic sources and learned that AFDI is 100% correct? Oh, the humanity!!!
No, it’s so much simpler to remain ignorant and trust perception – those quotes aren’t very nice so he wants nothing to do with them, truth be damned. That’s why appeal to emotion is a logical fallacy.
mortimer says
Looking something up in your gut is called ‘truthiness’. Looking it up in a book is called ‘truth’.
Jessen prefers looking things up in his gut.
Richie says
Women’s rights- in Islam?
Are they serious???
Jack Holan says
Mr. J has a closed mind on the issue, is fearful of consequences, or has been paid off. Businesses exist to make a profit not turn away business.
mortimer says
People would have to call them on this obvious propaganda by boycotting their company, then.
Does Clear Channel want to be associated with false advertising. Even opinion needs to have some basis to be a valid opinion.
Otherwise, it’s misleading BS.
somehistory says
This is not surprising from all of the other things we have seen developing in recent years. It will likely get worse before islam, the beast of satan, is defeated.
The image of the beast will command everyone to bow and worship the beast of satan. This is happening. All those who love life, all who believe in Christ and the True God, must resist the command.
(Revelation 13).
Paul says
Muhammad did believe in peace – as in “Rest in Peace”, which was the
fate of everyone who rejected his ‘divine’ message that came from himself.
He also definitely believed in justice, i.e. Islamic “justice” – institutionalised
second-class status being enforced upon Christians, Jews and all other
‘kuffar’. Death for apostasy. Death for non-existent ‘blasphemy’ etc.
In Muhammadanism women indeed have the ‘right’ to be beaten, raped,
mutilated and stoned to death, and to have all their rights taken away
from them.
So, in a way the posters aren’t actually lying. People just need to acquaint
themselves with the mindset of those who put them up as well as the inverted
language they use.
mccode says
Sent to Mr. Jessen,
Your company, Clear Channel, is doing a profound disservice to your audience by allowing the billboards praising Muhammad to be seen. Accurate historical sources unambiguously reveal him to be a murderous warlord who was the antithesis of the person lauded on your billboards. You, sir, and your company are in dire need of correcting this nonsense, and setting the record straight. Please take the time to consult accurate authorities on this subject, and not merely take the word (and money) of Muslim apologists.
Very best regards,
Concerned citizen.
No Fear says
Good. I suggest that he get a copy of the Quran and the Hadith and start reading.
Mohammed is described by Islamic source texts as a pedophile, murderer, rapist, encourager of rape, torturer, killer of Jews, killer of women, warlord, thief, liar, deceiver…..
No Fear says
Mohammedans love Mohammed in the same way that Nazis love Hitler.
Not because he is a “nice” person or a great healer or a helpful person…but because he is a “tribal” leader who is good for the tribe but is ruthless and violent to non-tribe members.
Hitler , Mohammed were typical tribal supremacist leaders.
TheBuffster says
That they were.
Paul says
Muhammadans worship Muhammad, not ‘Allah’. They pay
lip service to their pagan rock god, but Muhammad is
glorified above everything, which is why you can criticise
‘Allah’, but never their narcissistic murderous child-raping
and subtly self-proclaimed deity. Many of them say prayers
of which the recipient is Muhammad as opposed to Alan :
Good video this :
TheBuffster says
That’s an excellent letter, Mccode! So concise.
I wish I’d seen yours before I wrote mine. Unfortunately, it takes me longer to be concise than it does to be more long-winded.
Edward says
iHeartMedia Inc., a communication giant, has many holdings including Clear Channel Broadcasting, should abide by what their corporate logo espouses; the art depicts either a candle or a transmission tower which radiates a red heart outline. I guess it signifies either love or perhaps diversification. A limited diversification that is……considering that are so ignorant about what the other applicant is all about.
They should be taught that if Islam culture overshadows our freedoms and liberty their entertainment conglamorate would be used to spread propaganda only. They should be reminded that enjoyment is not part of the Muslim culture…..and that they hate music or TV. By appeasing Islam apologist; would be accelerating their business demise, guaranteed!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IHeartMedia
Wellington says
In their own way, the executives of the unintentionally ironically named Clear Channel are betraying America. Yes, they’re that awful and are not deserving of sleeping soundly at night.
Scott says
It’s unthinkable that Clear Channels lawyers will not have them relent and run the AFDI ads.
If not, they’ll get sued from here to tomorrow…….
Baucent says
There is certainly a campaign afoot to rehabilitate the dark age warmonger and self styled prophet. Muslims groups are attempting to make Mohammed into a “lovable figure”, a sort of “Jesus” that children could sing songs. There have already been “Love our Prophet” festivals and all this is to try and separate the man and the religion he invented from the more unlovable followers (such as ISIS) that call on his name.
Will it fool anyone?
mortimer says
They have photoshopped Mohammed. They try to remove offensive material from the ‘snapshots’ of Mohammed from 8th and 9th century literature. They try to give Mohammed a makeover.
However, Mohammed’s maleficent, opportunistic is the greatest liability to Muslims.
Once kafirs have read the original stories about Mohammed, Muslims are unable to convince them that Mohammed is anything but a madman and a false prophet.
Champ says
muhammad *DIDN’T* believe in: peace / social justice / womens rights
(prevarication be upon him)
duh_swami says
Jessen is a supremacist…He believes his uneducated ‘perception’, is superior to someone who is educated on the subject. These liberal minded people never crack a book, but somehow they know more than someone who has cracked the books. I have been called a moron many times for telling a truth or fact about Islam, and by who? By people who never crack any books and actively resist learning anything. There’s not much to be done with the ‘Stuck on Stupid Syndrome’, especially when it’s deliberate…
mortimer says
They are ‘UNACQUAINTED’ with the subject. I ask them pointedly, ‘Do you know that as a FACT…or are you GUESSING?’ Most of these uninformed people admit they are ‘guessing’.
We live an era of subjectivity called ‘post-modernism’. What’s important is FEELING, rather than fact.
Truthiness is what you feel in your gut to be true. You look up truthiness in your gut. You look up facts in a book.
Emjay See says
VWe live an era of subjectivity called ‘post-modernism’. What’s important is FEELING, rather than fact.
UTTER boll**x Sorry BUT what land do you live in?
Edward says
If only the staunch ultra conservative, ‘Old Leather Lungs’, Allan Dale was still with us and was broadcasting from Clear Channel’s (1960’s) flagship AM station WOAI, he would have straighten all of these cowardly brats at corporate by now. Allan Dale would never have fallen to the tactics of the devil!
mortimer says
Robert Spencer used the word ‘PROPAGANDA’ to characterize the ICNA ad. The word choice is accurate.
Propaganda is ‘the systematic attempt to manipulate and direct behavior through controlled, one-sided messages to further the desired intent of the propagandist.’
One-sided, intentionally misleading messages of propaganda should not go unchallenged and untested.
terry bare says
Hands down the most destructive insidious ideology in the history of mankind.
Edward says
An open letter to:
Mr. Lowry Mays, as Chairman of the iHeartMedia, Inc you have the responsibility to stop the progression of a societal ideological disease that is spreading into this world of ours. This disease is not from biological resources, but from the mindset of a theocracy sect that wants to achieve total domination of people from all religious faith so theirs will be the only one in existence in our terrestrial domain.
When your corporate structure chose to appease the adherents of Islam in providing the bill board means of advertising about their structured and dangerous convictions; you will be complimenting their erroneous teachings. Theirs spawns Contempt to those that don’t succumb to their religion while the other viable religions offer Mercy to the Islamic religion; the very ones that hate them.
Mr. Mays, would you please invite the man of reason compatible to yours, B.J. Red McCombs your business partner, to contemplate in what the end results would be if Clear Channel continues servicing the Islamic apologetics to sell their erroneous ideologies.
With all due respects, please make time to be knowledgeable of what the Muslim’s religion of choice, Islam, has to offer them and the rest of the world inhabitants.
Their Quran will completely outline the Muslim world convictions, but be aware of deception from those that want to push their rational. Their Taqiyah concept can be very dangerous to our reasonable cognizant attributes.
In conclusion, please don’t allow anyone to tarnish the legacy that Clear Channel that has helped the San Antonio community and the world since the 30’s. I know, for I’m from here too!
Thank You!
Reference: http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/06/clear-channel-runs-ad-praising-muhammad-refuses-ad-criticizing-muhammad
JIMJFOX says
To ALL who complain here– have you emailed this supporter of Islam?
If not, WHY NOT?
Please, everyone send him an email
Edward says
Its not a matter of complaints from us, but to make them aware of their errors. One should publically post our thoughts first so our thoughts show evidence and don’t end up in a file 13, a garbage can that is!
ToastedHam says
Here is what I sent…..
Clear Channel: jackjessen@clearchannel.com
RE: Islamic Circle of North America billboard
Dear Mr. Jessen,
An extensive FBI investigation and federal prosecution resulted in convictions that shed light on the Muslim Brotherhood’s operations in the United States. In addition to the convictions of five defendants for terrorist funding-related activity, the Texas trial produced a Justice Department list of “un-indicted co-conspirators” with the Holy Land Foundation (HLF), a terrorist fundraising front for Hamas.
Many of those un-indicted co-conspirators are individuals and organizations who are prominent in Muslim advocacy today, and who have cast themselves as mainstream Muslims. Many are also identified as Muslim Brotherhood operatives.
Mr. Jessen, please read the Muslim Brotherhood’s doctrine to all Muslims’ in North America.
Please pay special attention to Page 7, Paragraph 4, and the last page that list “Islamic Circle of North America” as an operative!
http://www.brotherhoodunmasked…
Rufus Carswell Sr. says
As a recently retired vice president of an Atlanta, Ga. advertising agency, I have just written an e-mail to Clear Channel (located in Atlanta) urging them to reconsider. If they don’t, I will urge some of my many advertising colleagues to put some pressure on them. Clear Channel is a great company and they mean well, however I am sure they are concerned about retaliation. They need to get some guts like Pamela!
Linde Barrera says
To Rufus Carswell Sr.- I just finished sending a respectful email to Jack Jesse at Clear Channel. I quoted 3 verses from the holy book of Islam: “Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them” Quran 2:191; “Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam” Q 5:33, and “The Jews and Christians are perverts, fight them” Q 9:30. I gave the 3 dictionary definitions of “infidel” and stated where Islam is concerned the word means “a non-Muslim”, and also cited 2 websites “Islam-watch.org” and “infidelsarecool .com”. I also stated that Islam would never adapt to the US Constitution’s amendments for freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc. Lastly, I asked him not to renew these signs if they couldn’t be taken down right away. I tried my best! Let us hope Mr Jessen gets a conscience and soon.
Linde Barrera says
To Rufus Carswell Sr- I spelled the name of Jack Jessen correctly in the email.
Thomas Griner says
Here is what I sent…..
Clear Channel: jackjessen@clearchannel.com
RE: Islamic Circle of North America billboard
Dear Mr. Jessen,
An extensive FBI investigation and federal prosecution resulted in convictions that shed light on the Muslim Brotherhood’s operations in the United States. In addition to the convictions of five defendants for terrorist funding-related activity, the Texas trial produced a Justice Department list of “un-indicted co-conspirators” with the Holy Land Foundation (HLF), a terrorist fundraising front for Hamas.
Many of those un-indicted co-conspirators are individuals and organizations who are prominent in Muslim advocacy today, and who have cast themselves as mainstream Muslims. Many are also identified as Muslim Brotherhood operatives.
Mr. Jessen, please read the Muslim Brotherhood’s doctrine to all Muslims’ in North America.
Please pay special attention to Page 7, Paragraph 4, and the last page that list “Islamic Circle of North America” as an operative!
http://www.brotherhoodunmasked…
R Cole says
What’s just behind that sentiment ~ Convert to Islam or Die!!
Because sadly there can be no ‘peace’ in Islam – when there are non-Muslims about!!
::
When it comes to Islam ~ everyone says ~ I don’t want no trouble!
Muslims are not used people answering them back.
Subjugated
In any respectable Islamic society – the non-Muslim is to be like the Muslim wife – granted certain rights ~ not least of which is doing what she is told!!
Bring in the Far-Left
Only the ‘racists’ don’t want to convert!
gravenimage says
I had a run-in with the “Why Islam” Da’wa artists way back in 2007. It was grimly enlightening, and gives you a pretty good idea of what sort of “peace” and “social justice” they have in store for Christians and other Infidels—it involves genocide in the “last days” for any who don’t convert to Islam—and their view of “women’s rights”, which includes polygamy, wife beating, and pedophilia.
I hope no one minds my reposting my comments from the time:
“I just had my first serious experience of Da’wa. It was pretty disturbing.
I was down in San Francisco’s Mongomery Street BART station, and there was a ‘Why Islam’ table set up, right in the main concourse. (Of course, I myself ask “why Islam” on a regular basis).
I was rather taken aback, but decided that I should see what they had to say. There were two people manning the table–a hostile dude in full beard who did nothing but scowl at me–an “uncovered” woman in a short-sleeved dress. The other guy looked a lot more approachable, though–a young, clean-shaven, smiling fellow.
I told him I was interested in learning more about Islam and had read the Qu’ran in translation (true). They had a lot of glossy and attractive brochures–“Women in Islam”, “Ecology and Islam”, “Jesus in Islam”, “The Last Prophet”, etc. I knew I couldn’t tackle every topic, so I just chose two–Jesus in Islam and the status of women.
I scanned the brochures–there was a lot of Taqiyya–we revere Jesus, just like Christians, we respect women, etc. I expected more of the same from this friendly fellow (I found out he was from Iran). At first, that’s just what I got. As he found out I was at least a little bit knowledgable about Islam, though, I was truly shocked at what he admitted to me.
I said I knew that Islam revered Jesus and Mary. He enthusiastically confirmed this. I went on to say that I realized that the Islamic Isa wasn’t exactly the Christian Jesus–that, for instance, he had never been crucified, etc, etc. He agreed and expanded on this. And I said that I knew that according to Islam Isa would return in the final days to smite Christians. I thought he would demur at this–but no. He said, “of course, because they have lied about him!” Note–he did not say that Christians were mistaken about Isa, his history, or true nature–but that they *lied* and were deserving of being cut down.
I admit I was rather stunned by his admission. We went on to talk about women in Islam. He asserted that women in Islam are respected and are fully equal to men. I brought up a few things such as polygamy, the worth of women’s testimony and wife beating. He started to backtrack–saying this was all cultural. I mentioned little Aisha marrying the Prophet at the age of nine. He said some scholars thought she might have been sixteen (we’ve heard this before). I cut him off and said I supposed that Islam has a different interpretation of “respect” from what it meant in the West.
I was surprised–he immediately dropped the “cultural” argument. He warmed to the topic, saying, yes, that Allah had a different plan for women. I asked again about Aisha–he dropped his assertion that she was older and freely admitted that marriage to young girls was allowed in Islam, and was considered “beneficial” to them.
I mentioned the hadith where Mohammed had counseled that a girl should not see her first blood (menstruation) in her father’s house. He said he was not familiar with that hadith but was going to look it up. He sounded quite enthusiastic. (Later, I looked up the quote and realized that I had screwed up–this wasn’t a quote from Mo, but from Ayatolla Khomeni).
I said that, well, this wasn’t lawful in the West, which he acknowledged. I said, but, if we were living under Shari’ah… at this point, he did demur–saying, hurredly that, of course, everything would be different then, but we’re not. He gave me a slew of brochures, then, rather surprisingly–given the startling conversation we had just had–shook my hand. He said I could call or check out the web site if I had any more questions.
I *never* thought a proponant of Da’wa would admit so much ugliness to a strange Infidel–and a woman at that. I guess he thought that because I was familiar with some of these Islamic ideas, that I agreed with them.
Incidently–Mongomery station is in the very heart of downtown San Francisco’s financial district. Montgomery street is known as “the Wall Street of the West” for the presence of the Pacific Stock Exchange.
I later asked a BART station agent if “Why Islam” had a permit to set up there. The agent didn’t know anything about it, and wasn’t all that interested.”
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2007/09/osamas-invitation-to-islam/comment-page-0#comment-392312
Linde Barrera says
To gravenimage- You are not only a talented artist, you are very brave for taking on a conversation with these 2 guys. I bet the one who shook your hand and smiled at you truly thought he was making an in-road at converting you. He wasnt able to do that, was he, tough luck for him! (Sarcasm.) My nice Muslim neighbor from Uzbekistan told me that Jesus would return to Syria, break all the crosses, throw Christians into hell for worshipping him, get married, and after 40 years, die and be buried in Syria! As 1 Lutheran pastor told me, “Don’t let any Muslim tell you about Jesus Christ or what is in the New Testament, because those are outside the domain of Islam.” I went to Starbucks last week, and thought of you! Best regards, dear graven.
gravenimage says
Thank you, Linde. I was actually pretty freaked out by these guys, and was a lot less sure of myself being knowledgeable enough to hold my own in a debate about Islam eight years ago—I’d been reading and commenting at Jihad Watch for less than a year at that point. They also quite aggressively tried to get my contact information, but I was smart enough not to give it to them.
Even today, though, I am quite surprised by what they would admit to an Infidel—I doubt they understood how damning it was to anyone not steeped in the horrors of Islam.
I have learned since that their table was definitely set up in BART illegally—but I don’t know if anyone called them on it or not. Certainly, the station agent was apathetic about the whole thing.
Your Uzbeki neighbor is spouting orthodox Islam when it comes to “Jesus” (Isa) ‘breaking the cross and killing the pigs’, which means ending dhimmitude, the small, oppressed, and exploited space in Islam where Christians and Jews are allowed to exist under Islamic law.
I’m glad you found a Lutheran pastor who is both savvy about the threat of Islam and willing to admit it—this is quite a rarity! All too many of them are engaged in the same foolish “interfaith outreach” to savage Muslims that Christians of other denominations are.
OT—I was at a local Starbucks myself yesterday. If I am going to be in the New York area, I will definitely let you know, and will be proud to let it be my treat.
Linde Barrera says
To gravenimage- Thank you for responding to my post. I insist that I treat you to Starbucks when you come to NYC! And you are welcome to see my Facebook picture, since you would search for me under my real name, which is Linde Barrera. Hint: I am wearing a big hat! Take care dear.
Laura says
Send him a copy of the Koran, highlight the verses that prove that Islam is a terror-based, misogynistic religion, and bookmark those pages. Maybe then he’ll get it.
duh_swami says
Jessen is swamped with e-mails, some of them lengthy…I wouldn’t expect him to read them all, and I wouldn’t expect him to be suddenly ‘enlightened’. I definitely wouldn’t expect him to start reading Quran…
Red Bee says
Instead of believing advertisement’s claims one should check out the actual product which in this case is Islam.
Islam teaches that the Koran was dictated to Muhammad by the angel Gabriel on Allah’s command. I doubt the media, the public and the moderate Muslims did read the Koran. From their utterances I get the impression they did not and do not know what it really is.
My website focuses on the fact a large part of the Koran consists of a couple of themes which are repeated over and over again, an aspect which is seldom mentioned.
It would be a very good thing if the electorate did take a closer look at the Koran and see what they are dealing with instead of assuming it is just another religious book. They can do so at my website (click my name). I designed it to enable visitors to draw their own conclusions before reading mine. I bet a lot of people will get a surprise when they spend 10 minutes.
Edward says
Jihad Watch commenter’s, I just sent the comment below to catholiconline.com to voice my opinion about their article: ‘Pro-Muhammad billboards to be put up in cities across America’ @ http://www.catholic.org/news/national/story.php?id=61349
They posted a very terse small text article with no commentary and very restrictive when I wrote my say. I couldn’t identify who is countering ICNA’s billboard campaign. I guess the website is abiding to Vatican’s ‘Nolo Contendre’ stance!
BTW, they also rejected the link to http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/, which I just pasted to test the ground.
Woe, who is actually our enemy here in the states? My post is now being moderated. If approved it will be posted with the other comments. We shall see!
—————————————————————————————————————–
“This campaign is not the ICNA’s first attempt to clean up the image of Islam in America.”
How can they clean up the image of Islam here in America! For their rap sheet shows the absolute evidence of evil.
If I had a very low credit rating report, how could I have the audacity to even ask for more credit when my profile data is on file? I guess they can change their identity like a chameleon changes its camouflage, but their finger prints are all over the crime scenes in many places around the world!
What’s happening here; by posting their billboards shows that the US Constitution’s Freedom of Speech First Amendment is intended for the non-righteous only.
Sadly I’m not able to provide a link to a website that is countering this injustice!
Edward says
Good News!
http://www.catholic.org/news/national/story.php?id=61349
“Pro-Muhammad billboards to be put up in cities across America’
Has rescinded the prohibition of me placing a JW link to my comment on their story about Islam’s illicit use of billboards to spew their propaganda of how holy they are!
Besides letting me include a link to this JW webpage:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/06/clear-channel-runs-ad-praising-muhammad-refuses-ad-criticizing-muhammad
I was allowed to greatly edit my original comment that I had posted earlier on their related story.
Edward….. • 6 hours ago
“This campaign is not the ICNA’s first attempt to clean up the image of Islam in America.”
How can they clean up the image of Islam here in America! For their rap sheet shows their evidence of evil.
If I had a very low credit rating report, how could I have the audacity to even ask for more credit when my profile data is on file. I guess they can change their identity like a chameleon changes its camouflage, but their finger prints are all over the crime scenes in many places around the world!
What’s happening here; by posting their billboards shows that the US Constitution’s Freedom of Speech First Amendment is intended for the non-righteous only.
For there is a website that is countering ICNA’s organized PR campaign to spread civil rights and good will here in America. The problem with the ICNA’s campaign is what is expressed on the billboard doesn’t coincided with Islam’s writings of civility at least towards the non-believers of the Muslim’s religion; Islam.
Here’s the website that counters the claims written on the ICNA’s billboards.
Incidentally, the same billboard advertising companies refused the business of the other applicant wanted to bring their point publically!
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015…
Edit
A side note: It seems that catholic.org is a loyal ally of Jihadiwatch.org in the battle against worldwide tyranny and homeland injustice!