What killed the world’s conscience and rendered it indifferent to the plight of Christians in the Middle East? Well, when it comes to Cardinal Bechara Rai’s brother bishops in the West, it was the desire for a fruitless and self-defeating “dialogue” with Muslims that gave the appearance of genuine interfaith harmony, albeit without a scintilla of reality.
Not only did Western bishops waste their time having coffee with imams and being subjected to slyly couched dawah, but in the service of this useless exercise, they ruthlessly suppressed any genuine discussion of the persecution of Middle Eastern Christians, and the real causes of that persecution.
This notorious quote from Robert McManus, Roman Catholic Bishop of Worcester, Massachusetts, February 8, 2013, sums it up: “Talk about extreme, militant Islamists and the atrocities that they have perpetrated globally might undercut the positive achievements that we Catholics have attained in our inter-religious dialogue with devout Muslims.” But McManus, except in the sense that he was foolish enough to state baldly and explicitly that he would not allow discussion of Christian persecution because it might harm the dialogue, was not singular in this. His statement was an expression of the U.S. bishops’ party line — one that is fostering ignorance and complacency about the jihad threat among Catholics and other Christians in the West, and ensuring that the future of the Church in the West will resemble the present day of the Church in the Middle East.
“In Syria, Maronite patriarch denounces ‘death of the world’s conscience,’” Catholic News Service, June 8, 2015:
DAMASCUS, Syria (CNS) — Lebanon’s Maronite Catholic patriarch, visiting war-torn Syria, condemned “the death of the world’s conscience” in its response to the violence in the Middle East.
In a homily June 7 at the Maronite Cathedral of St. Anthony in Damascus, Cardinal Bechara Rai also issued a call for peace, “for stopping the war, for political solutions and for the honored return” of the 12 million Syrians who have been uprooted by the country’s four-year civil war.
“We condemn injustice, the death of the world’s conscience and all those who provide arms and money for sabotage, destruction, killing and displacement,” Cardinal Rai said.
Following Mass, the patriarch inaugurated a new Maronite social center. His pastoral visit to the Syrian capital also included attending the inauguration of the Greek Orthodox patriarchate and participating in the annual meeting June 8 of the Catholic and Orthodox Eastern patriarchs.
The religious leaders chose to meet this year in Damascus instead of Lebanon to reassure Middle East Christians troubled by war and displacement.
“We will reflect together, we unite in thought, word and deed, bringing together the concern of our people in Syria and Iraq as well as in various countries of the Middle East … in the hope that this Way of the Cross is followed by the Resurrection,” Cardinal Rai said of the patriarchs’ meeting.
“We carry the cause of all Christians, people of Syria, Iraq, Palestine and Yemen and any country that suffers,” the cardinal said.
The dhimmi cardinal appears to have punctiliously omitted Israel. The jihad against the Jews doesn’t count.
“We, the five Eastern patriarchs, are here to pray for peace. We pray for peace in Syria and the region; we pray for the dead conscience of the international community. We pray for a peaceful resolution of the crisis in Syria, and that Syrians — Christians and Muslims — remain attached to their land, and for the return to their homes in dignity, of those that the war displaced.”
Cardinal Rai also urged the faithful to persevere and hold on to hope, despite numerous atrocities.
“Despite proponents of war, those who fund (it) and mercenaries who make a trade and profit, I am convinced that this wave of violence is fleeting. We are invited to hold on. Many have shed their blood, many were martyred but their blood was not shed in vain. Many also have been forced to flee,” he said….
ICH says
I came from UK. I have seen first hand how ISLAM will ruin a country.
Its a mess that will never fix itself. The people just suffer and are
left to pick up the pieces.
Will USA be ruined as such ?
Will we let it happen ?
spot on says
Islam is the worst kind of pollution imaginable.
Shane says
It is happening in the USA, but it can be reversed if we can elect a conservative Republican for President. If Hillary wins, Obama’s appeasment policies will continue.
manuel paleologus says
You are a patriot and a real American to write such a true aspect.
Zimriel says
Which is to say – Shane is a fool.
Merely voting for a “conservative Republican” will do nothing. Grover Norquist is “a conservative Republican”. He also goes home every night to swan-dive into a big silo of Saudi cash.
Gamaliel says
We’re letting it happen. Obama is bringing in thousands a month and we do nothing to stop him.
Nikiforos Fokas says
Sorry but you can’t pray for peace when the islamists kill Christians .
Call for local and international christian armed resistance against these monsters.
Words and prayers never saved slaughtered Christians.
spot on says
I often say that Obama hates Christians. His intentionally withholding of arms from defenseless ME Christians while supplying arms to the Muslims is the reason I say that. His other possible reason is that the Muslims pay him money and the Christians don’t. Anyone can have their pick.
Marco says
You are spot on. He hates all Christians regardless of ethnicity and he hates all whites regardless of religious, or lack of, affiliation. He is truly a minion of satan.
Godwin says
Definitely, he was bullied by whites during his younger days, n now is the time for him to take revenge on them. Hahaha !
abad says
There is a reason a lot of people consider Obama to be the Anti-Christ.
He is more concerned about giving MUSLIM Syrians and Iraqis refugee in the United States but won’t lift a finger when it comes to Christians in the Middle East – Christians who are suffering from the evil of Islam.
Obama need to be impeached and tried for treason. He is NOT an American and the Constitution strictly prohibits any non-American from holding the POTUS seat.
Christian says
You can pray that jesus will hasten his return. Something jesus called christians to do. And something he promised will also happen. (mat 24:22) So pray, because your prayers will be heard.
spot on says
I hope that the Christians in the ME survive this onslaught by Muslims. Their attitude with Jews should also be explored as a test of their statement regarding “Western conscience”. Obama should at least give them arms for defense as they have requested. Our air power should also be used to take out or weaken ISIS (it can indeed be done).
The Western world is terribly screwed up right now with Obama (including his voters), the MSM, corrupt Washington government, corrupt Europe, and with pacifist Western Christian leaders leading the way. So much so, that our children may find themselves in the same situation in the foreseeable future.
The Muslims are on the march with the MSM squarely behind them the same as the Nazis marched onto the world stage all during the 1930’s and hosted the World Olympics in 1936. This time with Washington corruption, the impact of TV, and advanced weaponry including nukes, what happens is anybody’s guess.
RonaldB says
Could you provide some links to where Christians requested arms? I don’t recall any Christian self-defense movement in the area. I recall where the Yazidis were trapped and requested supplies.
I also think we should be very wary of undertaking operations against ISIS. What will we replace it with? The Kurdish autonomous zone is holding out against ISIS and we can provide tactical support to help them maintain their country. Similarly, Iran is helping to organize the Shi’ite areas to resist ISIS. I kind of think we should allow Iran to supply all the resources for their allies. If Iran has the resources to develop a nuclear weapon and to build missiles, they can defend their Shi’ite allies without our assistance…but, without our interference as well.
We should also immediately stop all aid to Syrian rebels. The aid is being used to topple the government, which protects Christians, and flows to ISIS anyway.
We may have to learn to live with ISIS as a permanent entity in the area. The best case is that the Kurdish areas coalesce as a country deeply hostile to ISIS, the Syrian government stabilizes and constantly pressures ISIS, the Shi’ite parts of Iraq coalesce under Iranian support, and threaten ISIS. Then, ISIS can focus on defending itself, and the US is not in the business of further destructive blundering.
spot on says
Ronald, I was thinking of the Kurds. Some of them are Christian. Also the non-Christian Kurds want arms and will fight.
spot on says
Ronald, As long as ISIS is always there and never here, I can go along with whatever happens except we need to help minorities there with self defense arms and air strikes if they request.
The problem is that ISIS is a movement that will likely spread outside the ME. A supremacist regime like them with much hubris can not resist the temptation to expand and initiate Jihadists where ever they can. They will be heavily funded with new recruits as long as they remain strong. Muslims love a Muslim winner. I was thinking that we could make them losers and keep them poor with air power only if we really want to do this. Few new recruits would join a loser. Right now, it is easy to see that they are winners.
Lucretius says
“Could you provide some links to where Christians requested arms.”
Here you go:
https://m.facebook.com/Dwekh.Nawsha
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/02/06/iraqi-christians-form-anti-isis-militia-and-you-can-legally-fund-them
http://www.newsweek.com/4000-strong-christian-militia-formed-fight-isis-northern-iraq-304371
http://www.wsj.com/articles/iraqs-christians-take-up-arms-to-fight-islamic-state-1423017266
Lucretius says
“Could you provide links to where Christians requested arms?”
RonaldB
I tried twice already to post links for you, but it failed. Perhaps it’s because I tried giving more than one hyperlink in a single post. So I’ll give you just one here, and then I’ll tell you where to go to find other links.
https://m.facebook.com/Dwekh.Nawsha
Search for a Wikipedia article entitled “Nineveh Plain Protection Units” and go to the bottom, “Videos/External Links”
Lucretius says
Also, there’s
Restoreninevehnow.org
Angemon says
Lucretius posted:
“RonaldB
I tried twice already to post links for you, but it failed. Perhaps it’s because I tried giving more than one hyperlink in a single post.”
Probably. From my experience, any post with more than 2 links will require “approval” from a staff member. I guess it’s a way to fight spammers.
Again, from my experience, they usually get posted, it just takes some time.
RonaldB says
Got the references. Thank you.
Godwin says
Christ had taught the Christians to sheep to be slaughtered n raped by the evil “wolves”.
spot on says
Christ did say to be willing to die for what you believe in but he did not say to go down without a fight. “Tying a millstone around someones neck and casting him into the sea” are not the words of a pacifist.
Angemon says
Aren’t Maronite Catholics? What do they think of the Pope’s stance?
Marco says
Marionites are recently affiliated with the Roman Catholic church.
mortimer says
Western bishops have DEAD CONSCIENCES unless they start remembering the ASSYRIAN and EGYPTIAN MARTYRS…as well as the martyrs of Nigeria, Pakistan and other countries.
The Church is under attack by MUSLIMS.
The time for dialogue is past. Dialogue failed. Now is the time for eloquent, inspiring, prophetic speech about human rights directed at the politicians. That is the vocation of the BISHOPS.
Pere LaChaise says
Please don’t expect ME Christians to harbor soft feelings toward the Zionist state of Israel, which does not significantly differentiate between Palestinian Christians & moslems, and victimizes both with horrendous indiscriminate violence amounting to genocide. The fact that ISIL maintains a suspiciously eirenic stance towards JSIL should not be overlooked and the deeper connections between US, JSIL, House of Saud & ISIL needs to be explored. Pam Gellar’s stumping for JSIL as though every crime of the zionists were predicated on some Arab offense and strictly self-defensive, is indefensible.
Ted Cruz really put his foot into it when he demanded that Arab Christians who are victims of zionist terror as much as Sunni islamist. They sent him packing with all due Arabic scorn. Western tolerance for zionist drivel is part of the complex of genocide of ME Christians. It would not be an overstatement to say zionist and islamist rhetoric is equally false and self-serving. Both are backed by the richest and most warlike powers on earth: JSIL, US-UK, Saud, NATO.
Only the Christians of the ME (and Eastern Europe) have no sponsor to protect them from imperialist ambitions of Turks, zionists and NATO. Putin’s hollow claim to be their protector mocks their plight.
Charlie in NY says
Your comments about zionists and genocide are beneath contempt and display a startling lack of knowledge. Many Arab Christians sought to get past their dhimmi status after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire by pushing Arab nationalism as a unifying force among Arabs, with the disastrous political results we witness today.
The fact is that the Israeli Arab Christians who identify with Israel are attacked by Arab Muslims as traitors to the “cause.” Christian religious leaders toe the line set by, for lack of a more charitable description, their Muslim overlords for fear of violent reprisals against the largely defenseless local Christian populations. If the Copts who comprise 10% of Egyot’s population can be attacked without recourse, what hope is there for the remnant Christian communities in Muslim lands? Israel, of course, is the only country in the Middle East where the Christian community is growing. Try dealing with reality.
Godwin says
Watch Brigitte Gabriel’s youtude videos learn how the Lebanon Christians were being helped by the Israeli to fight Palestinian terrorists. She was christian from Lebanon saved by the IDF.
gravenimage says
The repulsive Pere LaChaise wrote:
Please don’t expect ME Christians to harbor soft feelings toward the Zionist state of Israel, which does not significantly differentiate between Palestinian Christians & moslems, and victimizes both with horrendous indiscriminate violence amounting to genocide.
……………………………..
My God, what vicious crap. The fact is that Israel is the *only* place in the Middle East where Christians have equal rights and can practice their faith freely.
And the idea the Israel is committing genocide against Muslims is grimly laughable—this must be the only time in history that the “victims of genocide” have actually *increased in population*. Those Joooooos must be really bad at genocide…
Would that that were true of Muslims—the Christian population of the Muslim Middle East has nosedived, due to their being driven out, forcibly converted, and murdered outright.
And this is amply true in the “Palestinian territories”, as well—things are bad in the “West Bank”, and Christians have been nearly eradicated in Gaza.
More:
The fact that ISIL maintains a suspiciously eirenic stance towards JSIL…
……………………………..
The idea that the Caliphate wanting to expand and “purify” itself before attacking Israel being “eirenic” is an odd interpretation.
And look at the false moral equivalence—ISIL and “JSIL”, as though ISIL’s taking of sex slaves, beheading of journalists and aid workers, and mass slaughter of unbelievers were mirrored by anything one would find in democratic Israel. Just sickening calumny.
RonaldB says
We heartily need a resurgence of conscience…not to make us do irrational things, but to make us do rational things.
That the Maronite leaders met in Damascus probably means they covertly support the Assad regime and are covertly critical of the vast support given to Muslim rebels by the West, which has been used to destabilize, persecute, and kill Christians. I still have no idea what motivated Western governments to fund the overthrow of the Assad government. Whatever horrors the Assad government perpetrated have been left far in the dust by the horrors inflicted by any of the rebel groups.
A conscience might have made policy-makers actually calculate if their diplomatic chess games to remove a dangerous piece (a coherent, armed Syria) really balanced out the horror and anarchy that resulted from trying to remove it rather than maneuver to neutralize it.
I believe the Christians ought to fend for themselves at the moment, keeping in mind to remember their friends. Israel can take care of itself for the time, incidentally providing the only real protection for Christians in the Middle East. There have been no, zero, none Christian demonstrations in the city where I live to protest persecution. A real movement to protect Christians would first, oppose the toppling of any stable, secular government that provides protection to those citizens who don’t threaten the government, and second, would formally oppose any international movement to condemn, boycott, or marginalize regimes under attack for their ability to maintain a coherent identity (yes, I mean Israel). Any Christian movement that throws Israel under the bus is not following conscience.
So, conscience is a path to reality, rather than the abstract game of viewing people as chess pieces.
Gerry McDonnell says
Your conscience is a part of your natural person and it can be a blessing or a curse to you.
Your conscience can give you permission to do something that is not right before God and it can also limit you to do what is right and prevent you from doing it. Adam became the god of his own life by eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. His spiritual communion with God was lost and his conscience now became his guide. The conscience therefore is the human spirit within that has been illuminated by the knowledge of good and evil. All of our problems are a result of our obedience or our disobedience to the word of God. This all started with Adam. His disobedience to the word of God led to separation from God and death. Jesus the 2nd Adam by his obedience leads to reconciliation with God and life. As Christians our guide should be the word of God and not just our conscience, because as Paul says in Romans 2 your conscience will either condemn or acquit you.
It’s another way of saying ‘one man’s meat is another man’s poison’. One person can do something and feel guilty another person can do the exact same thing and feel ok. The word of God when we feed on it becomes the tree of life that Adam was banished from eating, when he was banished from the Garden of Eden.
RonaldB says
Well, I’m an atheist,so I’m not really plugged into your arguments
But it seems to me that’s the problem with the Muslims. Everything by the rules and no conscience. You want me to give up my conscience for commands. I might as well become a Muslim.
Gerry McDonnell says
Abdullah al-Araby in his book The Islamization of America cites a very frightening letter from one Catholic Archbishop to the Pope. In this open letter to the Pope, the Archbishop of Izmir (Smyrna), Turkey, the Reverend Guiseppe Germano Barnardini, spoke of a recent gathering of Christians and Muslims for the purpose of interfaith dialogue. An excerpt from his letter recounts that during the meeting; an authoritative Muslim stood up and spoke very calmly and assuredly: Thanks to your democratic laws, we will invade you, Thanks to our religious laws, we will dominate you.
gravenimage says
The Archbishop of Izmir should know all about this. Smyrna was Turkey’s most prosperous and cosmopolitan city in the early 20th century. In 1922, in the last homicidal spasm of the Armenian Genocide, Muslims destroyed the city, murdering hundreds of thousands of Greek, Armenian, and Levantine Christians, as well as Turkey’s largest Jewish population.
There is only a tiny remnant of Infidels who survive there today.
AnneCrockett says
Well, a lot of the church in America was built on sand.
There are a number of causes that go into its failure.
A lot of them probably want the cultural approval the Church enjoyed from the 1930s to the late 1960s.Think of Pat O’Brien as priest try to save the Dead End Kids from a fate like Jimmy Cagney’s in “Angels with Dirty Faces”, think Bing Crosby as the youthful priest teaching the parish kids to “Swing on a Star”, think real life bishop Fulton Sheen beating out Milton Berle in television ratings, or even think of the heroic priests who battle Satan in “The Exorcist.” The cute imaginary flying nun on television, the real singing nun on the radio and blockbusters like The Shoes of the Fisherman and, of course, President John F. Kennedy all made the church in America comfortable with the culture. When the culture decided to throw over middle class values, the Church which had been a symbol of those values, was ridiculed as a retrograde force. It was portrayed as either witless against evil (the baptism scene in The Godfather, while great, is emblematic) or complicit in it (“Sister Mary Ignatius Explains it all for You”, “Monsignor”, et al). Unfortunately, social approval is a drug that is hard to kick, and many who represented and still represent the church were unwilling to be unpopular.
Dissent from the teachings of the church in favor of the popular teachings of society became common. Michael Rose in his book “Goodbye Good Men” explains how many seminaries turned away faithful men in favor of dissenters. Pope John Paul hoped to get rid of such men by outlasting them, by attrition rather than confrontation. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but maybe the overturning tables option would have been better.
Then, of course, there is the problem that priestly celibacy made it an easy shelter for men who did not want to explain why they never married. Even those who take a live-and-let live attitude toward homosexuality can see the problem with having closeted homosexuals as Catholic bishops. If their private lives are at odds with their public lives- and the sexual revolution made it far easier for them to indulge their sexual wants in private, although there has always been this sort of issue to some degree in the church- these very bishops will quickly develop “don’t rock the boat” personalities, and that leads to dialogue not evangelization.
Finally, most bishops are just not theologians. They are bureaucrats. They equate Islam with Judaism or pre-Christian religions. Lost on them is the fact that Christianity and Modern Judaism evolved from the same parent organism. The great medieval synthesis that integrated pre-Christian philosophers into the Church is impossible with a religion designed- whether by Muhammad or some later leader -to checkmate every point of the Gospel.
And so the church is dominated by craven men who seek the approval of the New York Times and hope to make their mark on the world by building a new building here or there. But to rehash this again and again is tedious. One starts to sound like Lenny Bruce ranting on stage about his legal battles.
Westman says
“Despite proponents of war, those who fund (it) and mercenaries who make a trade and profit, I am convinced that this wave of violence is fleeting. We are invited to hold on…….”
Define fleeting. Delusional Dhimmi-Dummy. Hold on to your head.
Edward says
‘The dhimmi cardinal appears to have punctiliously omitted Israel. The jihad against the Jews doesn’t count.”
This dhimmi cardinal is no dummy….. for we have to remember that he is constantly under the microscope by his nemesis. One misstep simply by saying ‘Jew’ he is a goner!
I hope and pray that the entire Jewish community would consciously contemplate why they are ‘the’ constant hate target of the world. I believe that the ‘Jews for Jesus’ could be the template in bringing stability to their stubborn relatives. dah! The Jews for Jesus know the answer to rid of the Jewish nation’s perpetual dilemmas ……that are always facing trials and tribulations. Simply by accepting the Messiah (aka) Jesus Christ! If we refer to the NT’s writings of Mathew 10:32-33 passages it is understandably known why the Jews has self inflicted their ills. They may be very religious in one sense, but very ignorant in another way. They are missing by fault, God’s graces and subsequent blessing by the way as outlined on:
Mathew 10:33-34 So if anyone declares himself for me in the presence of human beings, I will declare myself for him in the presence of my Father in heaven. But the one who disowns me in the presence of human beings, I will disown in the presence of my Father in heaven.
A side note: At the moment I trying to find out more about the Jews for Jesus congregation record (as a bench mark) of peaceful existence compared to their non Messiah believing relatives. BTW, the Jews for Jesus movements are expanding worldwide. The movement is now being established in many countries. They even have congregations in Russia!
RonaldB says
Hey Edward,
“I hope and pray that the entire Jewish community would consciously contemplate why they are ‘the’ constant hate target of the world. I believe that the ‘Jews for Jesus’ could be the template in bringing stability to their stubborn relatives.”
Kind of sounds to me like you’re saying the Jews bring it on themselves by stubbornly maintaining their unique identity and rejecting the grand plan you think they should follow.
“it is understandably known why the Jews has self inflicted their ills. They may be very religious in one sense, but very ignorant in another way. ”
I’m so glad you’re here, Edward, with your very superior knowledge and morality to set the Jews straight.
TheBuffster says
So, Edward, if the Jews are hated and have so many trials because they haven’t accepted Christ, why is it that so many Christians in the Middle East are being tortured and massacred? Did they displease God as well?
The Jews have had problems throughout history for a few reasons, none of which require a mystical explanation.
One of those is that the Christians were prejudiced against them because the Jews didn’t accept Christ.
Another is that, as a religious group, they did not try to spread their religion to others, so they remained a small and vulnerable group in relation to other religions. This means they are always a minority, and until recently, a minority without their own country, depending on the good will of non-Jews.
Perhaps the strongest reason is that they are and have been a “middleman minority”. These are minorities, which can be of any race or culture or religion, who play the economic role of intermediary between producers and consumers, such as retailers or money-lenders. These groups have typically faced resentment, hostility, and sometimes violence and massacres in many societies around the world through history.
Thomas Sowell writes: “Other kinds of minorities [other than middleman minorities] have also suffered violence, but the scale of lethal mass violence against middleman minorities has been unequaled. All the blacks lynched in the entire history of the United States do not add up to as many people as the number of Chinese slaughtered in 1782 or the Jews killed by mobs in Central Europe in 1096 or the Ukraine in 1648, much less the slaughters of Armenians by mobs in the Ottoman Empire during the 1890s or during the First World War. Only the Nazi Holocaust exceeded the slaughter of Armenians and, while the Holocaust was the ultimate catastrophe for Jews, it was also the culmination of a long history of lethal mass violence unleashed against middleman minorities around the world.” — From the book “Black Rednecks and White Liberals”
I do have to wonder whether the middleman status really made a difference in the Armenians’ case, given that their oppressors were the Ottoman Turks, and the Armenians were Christians living under the dhimmi system. Yes, Christians massacred, just like the Jews. And Christians are being massacred today, as well. Does that mean they just aren’t good enough Christians? Or does it mean that evil people do evil things and the victims’ religion or lack of it isn’t the cause – the evil way of thinking of the killers is the cause. The victims are innocent.
RonaldB says
Great reply, TheBuffster. Logical, factual and informative.
spot on says
When discussing historical wars regarding Christians, Jews, and all the rest, it is easy to ignore the local social context at the time. This makes any comparisons impossible. Long ago, people lived short lives with plague and all the other numerous diseases out there. This had a tremendous bearing on their daily lives and beliefs. For these and all the other reasons I think it is not accurate to use comparisons of the actions of Christians, Jews, or other religions in the distant past with modern times but Islam is very different. Islam is as violent today as it was 1400 years ago. It has never stopped being violent. I don’t see any other religion today like this.
I see Muslims around Israel deliberately shooting rockets almost daily into Israel for the specific purpose of killing innocent adult civilians and school children. Such hatred. Do the Palestinian Christians approve of this? These Muslims are taught by their government schools that Jews are not human and instead are pigs or monkeys. Anyone who cannot see the distinction between Muslim and Israeli actions here is blinded or without conscience.
Any modern Christian who roots in their mind for the Muslims to kill Israeli Jews is without conscience and should be condemned. Jew hating Christians should become Muslims and get it over with. I would challenge any Christian to defend their position when they side with Hamas or others Muslims who continue to inflict harm on innocent Jewish school children and Jewish adults in Israel. The old idea that Christians hate Jews because Jews did not accept Christ and participated in his death is completely bogus. Christ, his parents, and all his relatives were Jews. Would Christ hate his Mom and Dad? His relatives? A few power hungry Jews who were in bed with the Romans had Christ killed. There has and will always be power hungry people of all faiths who would do the same.
If some ME Christians hate Jews, they have spiritually joined with the Muslims. The same is true in the US and elsewhere.
gravenimage says
Look, I have a fondness for the folks at Jews for Jesus, who among other things seem to have a great sense of humor.
But the idea that Jews who don’t leave Judaism essentially deserve what they get, whether that be the Holocaust or genocide at the hands of ravening Muslims is simply grotesque.
Also, what makes you think that Jews for Jesus Jews would be safe from either Hitler or pious Muslims? I assure you they would not be.
I stand with the Jews, and I stand with Israel. That you are fine with oppression and genocide against them show that you are no ally to the Anti-Jihad.
richard c brown says
Will Pope Francis submit to the Muslims and Pay the Jizya ?
To know Islam know Mohammed .Read “The Story of Mohammed” Islam unveiled by Harry Richardson .Then get a copy of the Koran by Dr.Bill Warner .”An Abridged Koran .( Center for the Study of Political Islam.
Here is a site to help with the story of Mohammed.{the story of Mohammed.blogspot.com.au }
Here is a Bill Warner site where You can listen for Free and a start to Bill Warner .{https://sites.google.com/site/warnerlectures}
I suggest You read fast.
Loads of Luck to USALL
voegelinian says
I’m glad Spencer called the patriarch a dhimmi, because I realized the “conscience” he is talking about is merely measured by what he perceives to be a disregard for the disarray and displacements caused by the jihad against Assad’s Syria. Nowhere does he invest his own conscience with a clear description of the real evil besetting his people: Muslims pursuing and promoting their Islam. He’s just lamenting the world failing to protect his Muslim Master, Assad, for whom he remains a good dhimmi.
“we pray for the dead conscience of the international community. We pray for a peaceful resolution of the crisis in Syria, and that Syrians — Christians and Muslims — remain attached to their land…”
If this patriarch can’t recognize that Muslims are and always were a hostile foreign invader and occupier of the Christian land there, then he’s hardly one to lecture anyone else about their “conscience”.
voegelinian says
When I wrote —
“the “conscience” he is talking about is merely measured by what he perceives to be a disregard for the disarray and displacements caused by the jihad against Assad’s Syria.”
— it should be clear to the reader (even the typical Jihad Watch reader) from the rest of my short comment that of course this dhimmi patriarch refuses to recognize and condemn the jihad against Syria as a jihad, which would obligate him then to stop lamenting the plight of millions of Syrian Muslims as he so absurdly does.
Angemon says
voegelinian posted;
“When I wrote —
“the “conscience” he is talking about is merely measured by what he perceives to be a disregard for the disarray and displacements caused by the jihad against Assad’s Syria.”
— it should be clear to the reader (even the typical Jihad Watch reader)”
Always good to see the “affection” and “regard” you have for JW regular posters and lurkers alike.
“from the rest of my short comment that of course this dhimmi patriarch refuses to recognize and condemn the jihad against Syria as a jihad, which would obligate him then to stop lamenting the plight of millions of Syrian Muslims as he so absurdly does.”
God, that’s among the stupidest things I’ve read from you. Look up “do good for its own sake” and then explain, quoting from scripture and Church tradition, why Bechara Rai shouldn’t do that depending on the religion of the other party.
voegelinian says
Why are Angemon’s and Phillip Jihadski’s many friends here on Jihad Watch not taking them to task for defending Muslims so ardently as they do, with a thousand pinpricks against me every time I attack Muslims here? What is this, the Daily Kos or Little Green Footballs or the Jon Stewart website for fuck sake?
Angemon says
voegelinian posted:
“Why are Angemon’s and Phillip Jihadski’s many friends here on Jihad Watch not taking them to task for defending Muslims so ardently as they do, with a thousand pinpricks against me every time I attack Muslims here?”
First of all, I’d like to point out that Phillip Jihadski has yet to post on this topic. Do you get that a lot? Seeing PJ when he isn’t there?
Second: Why aren’t you replying to criticism instead of lying and playing the victim?
Here, let me remind you of what happened. You posted this:
“it should be clear to the reader (even the typical Jihad Watch reader)”
And I replied with:
You wrote this:
““from the rest of my short comment that of course this dhimmi patriarch refuses to recognize and condemn the jihad against Syria as a jihad, which would obligate him then to stop lamenting the plight of millions of Syrian Muslims as he so absurdly does.””
And I replied with:
Now, before answering that, you need to apologize about the whole “Angemon and Philip Jihadski are ardently defending muslims” non-sequitur. Apologize and retract your words, you big, fat, liar.
Champ says
voeg wrote:
“Why are Angemon’s and Phillip Jihadski’s many friends here on Jihad Watch not taking them to task for defending Muslims so ardently as they do” …
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WHAT?! This is a bald-faced lie, and everyone here knows it.
And where’s your proof? But of course ‘voeg’ doesn’t have any.
Angemon says
Champ posted:
“And where’s your proof? But of course ‘voeg’ doesn’t have any.”
Exactly, Champ. He can’t prove what’s not true. The irony is that in the topic about the immigration questionnaire someone told me (and I’m paraphrasing here) “at least be honest, you only want to question the muslims”. So on one topic I’m accused of going after muslims for being muslims but, according to voeg, I’m “ardently defending” muslims. And all along, he’s still under the delusion that all he has to do is wave his magic fingers around, make up whatever bogus claim, play the victim, and everyone else will magically do his biding, and all this takes place on a website he apparently hates.
It’s mind-boggling.
Angemon says
voegelinian posted:
“Why are Angemon’s and Phillip Jihadski’s many friends here on Jihad Watch not taking them to task for defending Muslims so ardently as they do”
Translation: “I, voegelinian, demand those who I deem as FOP (Friends Of Philip) to immediately cease and desist from any and all affiliations they might still have with the individuals known as “Phillip Jihadski” and “Angemon”, and order them to come and unconditionally defend me from from any and all criticism originating from, among others, the aforementioned individuals. You are also forbidden from ever criticizing me, under the penalty that I’ll speak as ill of you here in JW as I have spoken of Robert Spencer, Phillip Jihadski and Angemon and, if you insist in having such heretic thoughts and actions, I’ll speak ill of you in my blog”.
Champ says
voeg lied — again:
“…with a thousand pinpricks against me every time I attack Muslims here?”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Do you REALLY think that anyone will actually believe that lie?
Let me state the obvious: you attack Robert Spencer and call the majority of us here “Softies” …so stick to the facts, Jack!
Champ says
It’s mind-boggling.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It is mind-boggling, Angemon!
And I don’t know who ‘voeg’ thinks he is fooling since the truth is right here in black ‘n white for all to read. He’s really lost it, and I’ve lost *all* respect for him, too.
Jay Boo says
Angemon nailed it with
—————————————————–
“voegelinian posted:
“Why are Angemon’s and Phillip Jihadski’s many friends here on Jihad Watch not taking them to task for defending Muslims so ardently as they do”
Translation: “I, voegelinian, demand those who I deem as FOP (Friends Of Philip) to immediately cease and desist from any and all affiliations they might still have with the individuals known as “Phillip Jihadski” and “Angemon”, and order them to come and unconditionally defend me from from any and all criticism originating from, among others, the aforementioned individuals. You are also forbidden from ever criticizing me, under the penalty that I’ll speak as ill of you here in JW as I have spoken of Robert Spencer, Phillip Jihadski and Angemon and, if you insist in having such heretic thoughts and actions, I’ll speak ill of you in my blog”.”
Jay Boo says
Sad
I try to offer voeg a compliment when he writes a good comment but when he resorts to his old bad habits of bald face lying I have to say “why bother?”.
Jay Boo says
Ironic
— Bald face lying
— Playing one off the other
— Playing the victim
Has voeg bought a prayer rug lately and switched teams?
profitsbeard says
How did the modern “clerks” (the pseudo-intellectual class of academics, “thinkers”, politicians, religious “leaders”, artists, writers, journalists, teachers and talking heads ad nauseam ) ALL manage to miss the gruesome 1400 year long history of Islam and its bloodthirsty imperialistic depredations from Mecca to Spain, Egypt to Morocco, the Balkans to India, Rome to Constantinople, Yemen to Malaysia?
Doesn’t anyone read any History anymore?
Islam was always the well-known enemy of Civilization from the 7th century to the 20th. Dante put Mohammad in the Inferno, split down the middle like a gutted like a trout, symbolizing his position as a Great Divider of humanity.
The great artist Rodin drew this image.
Churchill wrote about the terrible retrograde force of Islam.
How is that in the past few generations the accumulated knowledge and warning wisdom of a millennium and a half was suddenly studiously OVERLOOKED? By ALL of these self-styled cognoscenti? Simultaneously?
It’s incredible that everyone could become so stupid so fast so thoroughly… without some ulterior motive or overwhelming influence.
Was it oil money bribery of the “leadership” in every position- from universities to the seminaries to our governments and the newsrooms- in the West?
What else could explain such a TOTAL recent abandonment of reality and the survival instincts?
Santayana’s tolling death knell about “Those who do not remember the past...” is becoming deafening.
And we are seeing Islam’s horrors daily as we “…are doomed to repeat it.”
quotha raven says
Profitsbeard –
I have been asking these questions as well, and I agree with your trenchant, if chilling, observations.
You cite “the past few generations” as when relevant history seemed quite suddenly to evaporate. But things have sped up dizzyingly since 9/11, accelerating even more since the Obama administration took the reins, complete with Valery, and Hillary and her long, vivid history of being pro-Palestinian.
What keeps troubling me is my sense that there might indeed be a small group of powerful people, or several such groups, (bankers, oil interests in both the west and the ME, billionaires, et al, who are effecting global economic and political change, complete with an incipient global caliphate…from behind the scene. I remember when George H W Bush first spoke about the “new world order” the roots of my hair tingled, and I was overwhelmed with foreboding. Or is this just my imagination running wild? Cheers – Quotha R
rab says
On one hand, you got what you deserve! You want to bargain with the devil! What does your teaching tell you about that? But still, somehow, he seeks a peaceful solution. Let me kinow when you’ve had enough.
The patriarch’s prayers have a lot of “conditions” on them. How about just save my people from the mudslimes! Plain, simple and honest. Try it for a while………
Lets see….you can wait for moses to open a way for you….
However, saving your people might mean that you need to pick up your guns and kill your way out!
Lioness says
McManus is exactly the kind of useful idiot that Muslims are looking for: compliant, stupid and submissive to Islam. In other words, a true dhimmi. But there are some Christian leaders who speak out, like Pat Robertson on CBN, which has correspondents in Juresalem and is a strong voice for persecuted Christians in the Middle East. Check out CBN.com, many excellent reports from all over the world.