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Jihad Watch

Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Pakistan Muslim scholars: Jihad groups have “nothing to do with Islam”

Jun 7, 2015 6:44 pm By Robert Spencer

Pakistan Ulema CouncilThis is the same Pakistan Ulema Council that has endorsed jihad-martyrdom suicide bombings, so its understanding of what constitutes “extremes” and “excesses” might not be identical to that of your average Western non-Muslim analyst. In any case, their fatwa against the jihad terror groups is, unfortunately, unlikely to be effective, since the Islamic State and the rest would doubtless reject the claim that they kill people and destroy their properties “based on personal opinions” — they would say they only do such things to heretics, apostates, blasphemers, etc. And the Pakistan Ulema Council would likely agree that such penalties meted out to people like that would be appropriate.

“Terrorism: ‘Militants have nothing to do with Islam,’” Express Tribune, June 8, 2015:

Several scholars meeting under the aegis of Pakistan Ulema Council (PUC) have endorsed the edict of Saudi Arabian clerics outlawing the use of phrases Jihad Fi-Sabilillah and Qital Fi-Sabilillah.

They have issued a fatwa saying: “Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) warned this Ummah not to exceed in extremes and stated that exceeding in affairs of religion is one of major reason for annihilation of erstwhile nations. It has also been stated in hadith of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), ‘Beware of excesses in affairs of religion as people before you were ruined for excesses in religious matters.’”

They said some militant groups, including the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) and Hezbollah, considered the killing of innocent people jihad.

“In reality, there are limits defined for jihad in Islam. Killing people and destroying their properties based on personal opinions can’t be considered a righteous act.”

They said Muslims all over the world were facing problems due to wrongdoings of the ISIS, the Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), the Hezbollah and Houthi rebel tribes. Owing to these groups, they said, anti-Islam elements were achieving their nefarious goals of disrupting peace and stigmatising the Muslims’ image.

“We want to make it clear that these groups and their actions have nothing to do with Muslims and Islam. They want to sow differences among different schools of thought among Muslims,” the clerics said.

“We appeal that Islam should not be criticised for the wrongdoings of these groups. No particular Islamic school of thought should be held responsible or associated with the militant groups,” they said in the fatwa.

They said it was wrong to term moderate Islamic believers as takfeeri.

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Filed Under: Featured, Islamic State (aka ISIS, ISIL, Daesh), Jihad doctrine, Pakistan Tagged With: Pakistan Ulema Council


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Comments

  1. No Fear says

    Jun 7, 2015 at 6:55 pm

    Jihad has nothing to do with Islam . Mohammed has nothing to do with Islam.

    • mortimer says

      Jun 7, 2015 at 7:32 pm

      …and Islam has nothing to do with Islam.

    • John Boston says

      Jun 7, 2015 at 7:35 pm

      Exactly! It’s getting to the point where they will have to say that their child-molesting leader had nothing to do with Islam.

    • Huck Folder says

      Jun 8, 2015 at 1:08 am

      “They said it was wrong to term moderate Islamic believers as takfeeri.”

      Tayyip Erdogan Armenicide (Mr Tea) considers the term ‘moderate islam’ inflammatory.

      So there!

  2. Angemon says

    Jun 7, 2015 at 7:09 pm

    “In reality, there are limits defined for jihad in Islam. Killing people and destroying their properties based on personal opinions can’t be considered a righteous act.”

    Last time I checked, they weren’t doing so based on “personal opinions”. They were doing based on what islamic law stated.

    “They said Muslims all over the world were facing problems due to wrongdoings of the ISIS, the Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), the Hezbollah and Houthi rebel tribes. Owing to these groups, they said, anti-Islam elements were achieving their nefarious goals of disrupting peace and stigmatising the Muslims’ image.”

    Right, it’s the “anti-islam elements” who are “disrupting peace and stigmatising the Muslims’ image”, not the islamic terror groups murdering, raping and enslaving while other muslims look the other way, whistle and pretend it’s none of their business…

    • Jaladhi says

      Jun 7, 2015 at 7:17 pm

      And you forgot Islamophobia stigmatizing Muslims!! LOL… Muslims will say anything to hide the truth about Islam and Mo/allah.

    • Huck Folder says

      Jun 8, 2015 at 1:11 am

      “Killing people and destroying their properties based on personal opinions…”

      Isn’t that EXACTLY what The Schmo did 1400 years ago?

  3. Phaidon says

    Jun 7, 2015 at 7:13 pm

    I doubt they haven’t heard of a little book written by their fellow countryman in 1979, Brigadier S. K. Malik, named “The Quranic Concept of War”, which quite eloquently makes the opposite point. In case someone is interested, I’m reviewing the book in parts on my blog: https://phaidonvassiliou.wordpress.com/category/islam/jihad/s-k-malik-the-quranic-concept-of-war/

    • Zimriel says

      Jun 7, 2015 at 10:13 pm

      I like this review. I especially recommend its third part.

  4. Terry says

    Jun 7, 2015 at 7:14 pm

    PLEASE NOTE: The man in the BLUE turban is a SIKH not Muslim and has nothing to do with Islam.

    We get so confused by others so often yet we are completely different. You’ll see a minority of Sikhs in Pakistan because it used to belong to India until 1947 when the Muslims rioted with enough violence to mandate for a land separate from India. Now we are just a handful in the country.

    • Jaladhi says

      Jun 7, 2015 at 9:30 pm

      I wonder if the photo shows Islamic scholars issuing this non-fatwa? And these are Islamic scholars then the person in blue turban presumed to be a Sikh is doing in this photo? Well anybody studying Quran can become a scholar of Quran but he is not entitled to pass a verdict what is and isn’t Islamic.

      Yes Sikhs, Hindus and Christian minority is decimated by Pakistani Muslims and these Pakistani “scholars” dare to tell us what qualifies as Islamic. Judge for yourself – at the time of partition of British India in 1947 the minority population in Pakistan was about 20 – 23% and now it is about 3%. These minority people are harassed, kidnapped, murdered everyday in Pakistan. That says everything about Islam and Muslims!!

      How long the world is going to listen to such BS from Muslims??

      • underbed cat says

        Jun 8, 2015 at 12:09 pm

        Money talks…B***S***walks..but look calmly pious while speaking.

    • Know Thy Enemy says

      Jun 8, 2015 at 12:25 am

      Muslims try to cozy up to Sikhs and there are just too many Sikhs [all over the world] who fall for their deception. The primary ruse that Muzzies use to fool Sikhs is “hey [smiling face], you believe in one formless God just as we do so you guys are just like us!” ….. and the gullible Sikhs become their best friends on the spot.

      However, those who understand Islam know that to Muslims, Sikhs are nothing more than infidels since they do not believe in judgement day nor do they call Muhammad a prophet. Belief in one formless God will simply get Sikhs minor, and temporary, relief from Islamic atrocities. In 1947 during India-Pakistan partition, when Muslims killed others en-masse, they did not discriminate between Hindus or Sikhs one bit.

      Hence, Sikhs need to wise up and cut all relationships with Muslims.

      • citycat says

        Jun 8, 2015 at 1:00 am

        Maybe the Sikhs that got away are wiser. I know a few Sikhs in England that are well wised up about Islam.

  5. Jaladhi says

    Jun 7, 2015 at 7:14 pm

    A bunch of liars gathering and trying to rescue Islam by saying jihad is un-Islamic!! But the Western morons(leaders, MSM an academia) will swallow it hook, line and sinker and tell the American public “don’t worry, be happy, Islam is safe and ISIS is un-Islamic!! I haven’t seen bigger fools than them(West).

    • mortimer says

      Jun 7, 2015 at 8:15 pm

      Jaladhi wrote:

      Actually, these devious manipulators did not denounce jihad, but said, “there are limits defined for jihad in Islam”.

      There is no more to their verdict than this: “…just because WE say so.”

      They have no great authority to make this pronouncement, and much less authority than Al Azhar University (Islam’s equivalent of the Vatican).

    • Susan says

      Jun 7, 2015 at 11:24 pm

      “I haven’t seen bigger fools than them(West)” should read I haven’t seen more fooled people than them(West)”.

  6. Dan says

    Jun 7, 2015 at 7:26 pm

    Alright I gots me a freakin’ question.

    When, in reference to Mohammad, Muslims always say, “Peace be upon him,”EXACTLY what does that mean? Or entail?

    Cause it sounds like someone expecting, or demanding, something they’re not willing to reciprocate.

    Christianity says to turn the other cheek, which is what Jesus did, so if someone can provide an example where Jesus said, “Blank this blank. They insulted me so go and kick me some blank in my name. And lop off some skulls while your at it.” then that’s hypocrisy.

    So someone explain, please, what does “Peace be upon him” mean?

    Cause I know of families who do whatever they can to keep the peace, cause someone in the family has a nasty hair trigger temper.

    • More Ham Ed says

      Jun 7, 2015 at 8:11 pm

      Peas be upon him and PBUH (the sound of spitting watermelon seeds) – that’s MY understanding.

    • mortimer says

      Jun 7, 2015 at 8:47 pm

      Allah’s godhead is split…that’s what this phrase suggests.

      “Peace be upon him,” is a mistranslation of the Arabic phrase, sallallâhû `alayhî wa sallam (a better translation would be: the prayers of Allah be upon him and peace).

      This phrase comes from Koran 33.56: “Lo! Allah and His angels shower PRAYERS on the Prophet.”

      The phrase ‘prayer and peace be upon him’ is exclusive to Muhammad. By using this phrase, Muslims express that Muhammad is of higher rank than all other prophets.

      The question that immediately comes to mind is: ‘Why does Allah need to PRAY for Mohammed…moreover, to WHOM does Almighty Allah pray?”

      The phrase *PBUH is thus irrational and even absurd. God does not need to pray, because only a creature would pray. A god who prays is a creature, not the Creator, nor is he almighty.

      The phrase implies that Allah is inferior to another being. Who is that being? Moreover, it implies as well that if Allah prays to himself, there are different parts to his being: one side of his being asks another side…is that it? It sounds like the Christian idea of ‘persons’ in the godhead. But that is against the Islamic idea that Allah is single. This phrase (PBUH) says that Allah is at least dual, since one part of him prays to another part of his godhead.

      This phrase is similar to Christian theology and may come from an early time when ‘Islam’ had not yet been created. It could be a ‘proto-Islamic’ idea from a time when heretical, Arab Christian sects were deviating into a further heresy under the leadership of charismatic, desert ‘prophets’ who had not yet been designated as ‘THE’ prophet.

      • Zimriel says

        Jun 7, 2015 at 10:24 pm

        The formula “s.a.w.” to which you allude – which is on the Dome of the Rock – reads to me like a conflation of Q. 33:56 (which IMO precedes both the Dome and that sura) and the contemporary Jewish prayer for the dead, ‘alaw ha-shalom. There’s a Christian echo of this in Galatians 6:16.

        So just straight “pbuh” is actually Jewish. . .

        • Jack Diamond says

          Jun 8, 2015 at 12:42 am

          As Mortimer points out PBUH is only a half translation in English of what is an Arabic
          phrase in the Qur’an “Salla-llahu ‘wassalam” meaning “Lo! Allah and His angels pray upon the prophet. Oh yea who believe, pray on him and salute him with peace” and that is exclusive to Muhammad. Lesser prophets only merit “alaihi al-salam” or “upon him (be) the peace.”

          Allah prays for Muhammad. Allah doesn’t have to make sense, he is not bound by reason or logic. The whole idea behind abrogation is that he is capricious and can change his mind whenever he feels like it. The best of deceivers means he is a god who lies and can’t be trusted. That would limit him. He gets science wrong and history wrong too just to show he is unlimited. Though where carnal pleasures, insatiable blood lust, and conquering the world are concerned, the really important things, Allah seems to stay focused. Coincidentally, all the things Muhammad desired. In fact, Allah hasn’t had much to say since Muhammad left the building.

        • ECAW says

          Jun 8, 2015 at 1:40 am

          In response to Jack Diamond’s post – Yes, “Allah does what he will”, something Pope Benedict pointed out, resulting in a spate of murders around the world, including of a Catholic priest and a nun as I remember. But the response worked. Benedict was much more polite about Islam after that and Francis has taken it to a new level (“the correct reading of the Koran…..” etc)

          I’ve been looking at the list (or one of the lists of abrogated verses) and they don’t appear to make much sense unless you start from the position that Allah is not only capricious but talks nonsense most of the time.

          I was under the impression that the idea behind abrogation was that Allah only gave information to his slaves on a “need to know” basis according to the situation at the time. I was puzzled to find plenty of examples of verses being abrogated by the very next one, which hardly leaves much time for changing circumstances, but also a couple of verses abrogated by earlier ones (2:158 and 33.52). How does that work?

        • Jack Diamond says

          Jun 8, 2015 at 2:05 pm

          ECAW, it is a wonder. This article from Answering Islam is revealing (I quote at length):

          “1) The abrogator precedes the abrogated
          In part 3, p. 69 the Suyuti remarks,
          “In the Qur’an there is no abrogator (verse) without being preceded by an abrogated (verse) except in two verses, and some added a third one, while others added a fourth verse” (Al Itqan).

          Then the Suyuti recorded these verses. We tell him that even if there is only one verse (not four) this matter is incomprehensible and unacceptable. Why should an abrogating verse (with which Muslims are to comply) precede the abrogated verse? How would an abrogating verse abolish something which is not yet in existence, then later, the abrogated verse is revealed and recorded in the Qur’an? Why should it be recorded if it is already abrogated?

          2) In part 3, p. 70, the Suyuti himself admits to this odd and amazing situation. He indicates, “One of the wonders of abrogation is a verse in which its beginning has been abrogated by its end. There is nothing like it. It is (placed) in the Sura of the Table 105.”

          http://www.answering-islam.org/BehindVeil/btv10.html

          {A wonder indeed}.

          “Sahih of the Bukhari, (part 3, p. 223, and part 8, p. 91). The Bukhari says,
          “Aisha said, The prophet heard a man reciting in the mosque. He said, ‘May God have mercy on him, he has reminded me of such and such verses which I dropped from Sura so and so.”’

          So Muhammad sometimes used to forget some verses and his friends had to remind him of them, but whenever he did not find anybody to remind him, he claimed that they had been abrogated. We saw this before when two of his followers came to him to help them to remember some of the verses which he had taught them. Muhammad told them these verses had “… been abrogated, forget about them!” So abrogation in the Qur’an was the result of forgetfulness or to lighten the task for the Muslims.

          Forgetfulness is plainly mentioned in the verse we quoted at the beginning of this discussion (Sura 2:106) and it was interpreted by Muslim religious scholars who affirmed that God used to make Muhammad forget and remove from his heart what he had revealed to him before as ibn ’Abbas, who was among Muhammad’s closest friends, admits to us.”

          {Muhammad was forgetful. He also abrogated the Qur’an itself, and even Satan got in on the act. The abrogation that really concerns us, however, is 9:5}.

          “3) Muhammad’s traditions (sayings and deeds) abrogate the Qur’an. The majority of Muslim religious scholars confirm that this truly took place and there is no room to deny it. One illustration would be the stoning of the married adulterer. The Qur’an talks only about scourging and exiling the adulterer, yet Muhammad himself stoned some adulterers. Thus, stoning the married adulterer (male or female) and not flogging them, has become Islamic law. The reason for that is that Muhammad said and did so. Therefore, the Suyuti (part 3, p. 60), as well as Dr. Shalabi (p. 121), has said that Muhammad’s traditions abrogate the Qur’an. This is also the opinion of ibn Hazm and al-Shafi’i. In this regard Dr. Shalabi says (page 121),

          “God is the source of the ideas whether they are included in the Qur’an or in one of Muhammad’s Ahadith (traditions) which is inspired (by God) and not recorded in the Qur’an.”

          It is appropriate here to refer to ibn Hisham’s statement in his book, “The Prophetic Biography”. This book relies on the testimonies of Muhammad’s companions. It is also the major source for all Muslims who always quote it. In part 2, p. 126, ibn Hisham says,

          “When some Muslims immigrated to Ethiopia, they received the news that the inhabitants of Mecca had accepted them. They returned to find that it was false news The reason was that the apostle of God, as he was reading the chapter of Star (53:19, 20), mentioned the idols of Mecca. Satan instilled in his recitation their praises and he (Muhammad) acknowledged their intervention. The infidels were overjoyed and said, ‘He mentioned our idols (gods) with good words.’ Then God sent down this verse (22:52). Gabriel told Muhammad, ‘I did not bring to you these verses (about the idols).”’

          No one can accuse Salman Rushdi, in regard to the Satanic verses, of making false claims against Islam and the Qur’an because this incident is acknowledged by all Muslim scholars along with Muhammad’s companions and his relatives, especially ibn ’Abbas himself.

          If we cannot comprehend how God abrogates what He Himself has inspired, we can easily understand that He abrogates what Satan utters as is recorded in verse (22:52). Yet, we have here two important questions:

          First, how was Satan able to distort the inspiration and to deceive Muhammad so that he told the people that these were God’s words, then later he reversed himself and told them, “No, Satan was the one who ill-whispered to me with these words?” Muslims believe that prophets and apostles are infallible—in matters of inspiration, at least.

          The second question is also very important. How was Satan able to imitate the Qur’anic text with its Arabic eloquence and profound diction? If the Arabic reader re-read Satan’s words to Muhammad he should immediately realize that they possess the same Qur’anic literary characteristics, eloquence and style. It is impossible to distinguish them from the rest of the Qur’anic verses.”

          No kidding!

      • ECAW says

        Jun 8, 2015 at 1:21 am

        Thanks for that erudite dissection of one of the many absurdities of Islam Mortimer – but it’s simple, Allah prays to his creator Mohammed.

        Both 33:56 and the business about Mohammed being superior to all the other prophets show his fantastic narcissism. Bukhari 4:54:429 explains, or there’s a potted version here:

        https://ecawblog.wordpress.com/2014/03/14/diagnosis/

        • No Fear says

          Jun 8, 2015 at 1:58 am

          Mohammed, in his own book, tells us that he is an excellent example for mankind.

          That is like Stephen King, in his own book, having one of his imaginary characters say “The author of this book is the best man alive”. (No disrespect for Stephen King, just using him as an example of an author of fiction).

          The only possible reason someone would do that in their own book is to have a laugh at the gullibility of his readers.

        • Huck Folder says

          Jun 8, 2015 at 2:04 pm

          I believe the mo genuflectors take allah as TOTALLY omniscient, she knows what is in the heart of every man, and woman, for every microsecond of their existence.

          Yet the rabid WORSHIPERS of mo practice shirk:

          Intercession in the Hereafter

          http://islamqa.info/en/21672

          Why would such a powerful ‘deity’ require a ‘second opinion’? How could she possibly miss anything? That means she is WRONG and mo is right? And the bar is set extremely low for admission to allah’s whore house and pedophilium. Anyone with a ‘submission’ ‘as light as the lightest mustard seed’, at any time in their life, gets the key to The Kingdom of Concupiscence.

          Doesn’t that sound just like what a con man, sorry, con artist, would tell his brigands who might have doubts about their particular hereafter experience? Maybe they had been wanking in anticipation of all the prepubescent bodies soon to come their way?
          (Maybe they were scared of getting pregnant hands?)

          And where’s the incentive to get yourself painfully carved up in this world, when some of your companions had it easy, maybe counting the loot, or checking individual virginity of the last batch of slaves.

      • jihad me at hello says

        Jun 9, 2015 at 10:06 am

        Very good point. Another one of the numerous points that makes Islam theologically incoherent is the source material the writer/s of the Quran used for the Jesus stories in it. Jesus forming a bird out of clay and breathing on to it to create a real bird, Jesus being born under a date palm tree, Jesus talking as an infant are all from heretical gnostic Christian texts. The Gnostics who originally wrote these stories believed that the material world was evil, not created by the ultimate supreme God but by a lesser, not so good, created, yet powerful non physical being. Clearly the origins of these borrowings are not in line with Islamic belief that God is creator of this world. It does though explain where the Islamic belief came from that Jesus was not crucified but only appeared so, since in Gnostic belief Jesus didn’t have a physical body but was more of a very convincing apparition and therefore couldn’t really be crucified.

        It just goes to show that Muhammad, if he existed, or whoever cobbled together the Quran, formed their understanding of Christianity (and Quranic source material) based off encounters with “Christian” heretics and was clueless about orthodox Christian belief.

  7. clap says

    Jun 7, 2015 at 8:08 pm

    “We want to make it clear that these groups and their actions have nothing to do with Muslims and Islam.”

    I’d be more inclined to believe them if they actually did something about these groups. Other then fund them, of course.

    • underbed cat says

      Jun 8, 2015 at 12:17 am

      Good one!…What really can they do to stop jihad…(other than not fund them from their charities.to build mosques and spread the religion of peace) it is fundamentally part of their ideology something like being devout by terror.

  8. Alarmed Pig Farmer says

    Jun 7, 2015 at 8:09 pm

    Jihad groups have nothing to do with Islam.
    — Moslem scholars

    If this is true, then what is driving them? And, given that they cite Islamic scriptures as their motive, why do they keep their real secret?

    ***

    The term Moslem scholar reeks of scientific socialism. If you have bad facts, just go to turnspeak and baffle them with your bullshit. The news entertainers are more than happy to pass on such bilge, it lets them avoid touchy subjects, ones that could imperil their high paid careers.

    • Huck Folder says

      Jun 8, 2015 at 1:18 am

      “The term Moslem scholar reeks of scientific socialism.”

      This reeks more: Islamic Human Rights Commission.

  9. Timothius says

    Jun 7, 2015 at 8:10 pm

    I’m a horny old man and have nothing to do with my spouses pregnancy. I think that I’m more believable than they are.

  10. Alarmed Pig Farmer says

    Jun 7, 2015 at 8:12 pm

    In reality, there are limits defined for jihad in Islam. Killing people and destroying their properties based on personal opinions can’t be considered a righteous act.

    Then the Holy Prophet Mohammed, who ordered the contract murders of Abu Afak and Asma Marwan for daring to criticize him, is burning in hell for his sins against Islam and Allah.

    That’s a happy thought.

    Or, is this hairy Moslem scholar with the geeky cap lying though his yellow teef?

  11. More Ham Ed says

    Jun 7, 2015 at 8:12 pm

    The guy on the right doesn’t look like he’s sticking to a halal diet.

    MORE HAM.

    • Aardvark says

      Jun 8, 2015 at 3:19 am

      Actually, the guy on the right looks remarkably like George R R Martin!

      http://alturl.com/kpndx

  12. Jay Boo says

    Jun 7, 2015 at 8:28 pm

    Pakistan — is the (Armpit) of the world.

    Long ago residents of the area now called Pakistan were converted to Islam that was invented by a satanic verse quoting lunatic who came from the:

    (Butt hole) of the world. — Mecca

  13. jewdog says

    Jun 7, 2015 at 8:29 pm

    Reading this, one would think that Mohammad was an Arabian Boy Scout. Actually, I think he was probably in the Girl Scouts, if you get my drift.

  14. Wellington says

    Jun 7, 2015 at 8:37 pm

    Pure rot. Whether it’s due to ignorance or mendacity, is of little note—–the effect is the same.

    Personally speaking, I go with mendacity over ignorance. But no matter because Islam remains a colossal burden to all mankind whether it’s put forward by the clueless or by the liars.

    Note to ALL Muslims: Your religion sucks. Its reputed founder, unlike other religious founders such as Jesus, Buddha, Confucius, Lao-Tzu, Zoroaster, et al., exhibits many times over the traits of a psychopath, an ignoramus, a narcissist, a pedophile, a fraud, a sex addict, a con artist (though a very good one) et al.

    Another note to ALL Muslims: You’ve been had. Big time. Realize this. Get over it. Doing so will benefit not only yourselves but all humanity.

    • Cecilia Ellis says

      Jun 8, 2015 at 1:25 am

      I agree with your “mendacity” option and stated effect. Now that I think about it, I should add that I wholeheartedly agree with your succinct annihilation of Islam and its diabolic founder. Hard to add to that. You do have a way with words . . . a superb way.

      • Huck Folder says

        Jun 8, 2015 at 2:19 pm

        Also some womendacity from Billoo, Sarsour, Lewthwaite, Khaled*, and a few million more.

        * In 1969 Palestinian Leila Khaled made history by becoming the first woman to hijack an airplane. She is a member of the Palestinian National Council, and a RABID communist – a perfect example of sinislam.

  15. John says

    Jun 7, 2015 at 8:54 pm

    Note that they say nothing about the non-Muslim victims of jihad. Not a thing. They’re only concerned with the image of Islam, divisions amongst Muslims, and that “Muslims all over the world were facing problems due to wrongdoings of the ISIS…” Classic cult mentality.

    • Jaladhi says

      Jun 7, 2015 at 9:35 pm

      Yeah, as I said this verdict is all Muslim BS and more Muslim BS and it has nothing to do with real Islam which ISIS is following!!

  16. Westman says

    Jun 7, 2015 at 11:44 pm

    ****”They want to sow differences among different schools of thought among Muslims,” the clerics said.***

    Come again? Who sowed the differences between Sunny and Shia?? “MODERATE ” MUSLIMS! Which of you two sects is the Takfeeri? Unbelievable liars…

  17. gravenimage says

    Jun 8, 2015 at 12:00 am

    Pakistan Muslim scholars: Jihad groups have “nothing to do with Islam”

    This is the same Pakistan Ulema Council that has endorsed jihad-martyrdom suicide bombings, so its understanding of what constitutes “extremes” and “excesses” might not be identical to that of your average Western non-Muslim analyst.
    ………………………………

    Yes—this is not dissimilar from Muslim clerics claiming that “terrorism” is Haram in Islam, and then finding that what they are *actually* condemning is Israel or the West *defending against JIhad terror*.

    More:

    They have issued a fatwa saying: “Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) warned this Ummah not to exceed in extremes and stated that exceeding in affairs of religion is one of major reason for annihilation of erstwhile nations. It has also been stated in hadith of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), ‘Beware of excesses in affairs of religion as people before you were ruined for excesses in religious matters.’”
    ………………………………

    These “excesses in affairs of religion” cited in the Hadith have *nothing* to do with what we in the West mean by “extremism”.

    Instead, this is chiding Jews and Christians for daring to debate their holy texts. In other words, this is slamming Infidels and warning Muslims not to question the Qur’an—this is not about condemning violent Jihad at all.

    http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2011/05/30/what-is-the-meaning-of-the-hadith-ruined-are-the-extremists/

    http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/muslim/034-smt.php

    More:

    They said some militant groups, including the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) and Hezbollah, considered the killing of innocent people jihad.
    ………………………………

    Not really. Jihad groups don’t consider Infidels, “heretical” sects like the Shia, or “apostates” (lax Muslims) to be innocent. The fact is, neither does the Pakistan Ulema Council.

    The only disagreement is whether certain groups or people should be regarded as sufficiently Muslim or not, such as the Pakistani or Saudi governments.

    More:

    “In reality, there are limits defined for jihad in Islam. Killing people and destroying their properties based on personal opinions can’t be considered a righteous act.”

    They said Muslims all over the world were facing problems due to wrongdoings of the ISIS, the Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), the Hezbollah and Houthi rebel tribes. Owing to these groups, they said, anti-Islam elements were achieving their nefarious goals of disrupting peace and stigmatising the Muslims’ image.
    ………………………………

    Notice that the main issue here is that these groups make Islam look bad.

    Tehreek-i-Taliban directly opposes the Pakistani government, ISIS wants to subsume every Muslim polity into the Caliphate, and Hezbollah and the Houthis are Shi’ites, and there is a minority of Shia in Pakistan.

    In other words, all of these groups directly threaten the Pakistani government. It would be wrong, of course, to assume this means that Pakistan actually has ideological differences with any of them.

    More:

    “We want to make it clear that these groups and their actions have nothing to do with Muslims and Islam. They want to sow differences among different schools of thought among Muslims,” the clerics said.

    “We appeal that Islam should not be criticised for the wrongdoings of these groups. No particular Islamic school of thought should be held responsible or associated with the militant groups,” they said in the fatwa.

    They said it was wrong to term moderate Islamic believers as takfeeri.
    ………………………………

    Pakistan itself imprisons “blasphemers” and enables the kidnapping and murder of non-Muslims. 75% of women in prison there are in for crimes of “Zina”, which include such matters as resisting forced marriages and running away from wife beating.

    There is nothing “moderate” about Pakistan.

    But few Infidels are aware of this—but they are aware of the horrors of ISIS. Right now, it is inconvenient for Infidels to associate this savagery with Islam.

    And note this vague point: “wrong to term moderate Islamic believers as takfeeri”—”Takfeeri” are Muslims deemed un-Islamic, and hence fair game to be treated just as badly as Infidels—including their murder.

    Note that they are not actually condemning the concept of Takfir—just criticizing the idea that Pakistani authorities be so regarded.

    This *looks* like a condemnation of Jihad, but—as is so often the case—it proves to be anything but at closer examination.

    • Huck Folder says

      Jun 8, 2015 at 2:25 pm

      At one of her talks, Irshad Manji (“The Trouble With Islam Today”) was shouted down by the audience who screamed that pakis were “not REAL moslems”. Takfeeri then? Every last one of them?

      • gravenimage says

        Jun 8, 2015 at 3:31 pm

        Good point, Huck.

        A member of the MSA yelled, “Because Pakistanis are not real Muslims. They’re converts. Islam was revealed to the Arabs.”

        The fact is that Arab supremacism runs deep in Islam, despite its claim to be a universal faith. As well as despising Pakistanis and other Asian Muslims, most Arabs consider sub-Saharan black Africans to be very much inferior.

        Of course, many non-Arab Muslims simply claim to be Arab, all proof to the contrary—many Pakistanis have adopted the surname “Qureshi”, as though they are descendants of the “Prophet” Muhammed’s Arabian tribe, and sub-Saharan Muslims like Omar al-Bashir of Sudan declare themselves Arab and routinely oppress and brutalize black African Muslims such as those in Darfur, even though many people outside Sudan would not detect much of an ethnic difference.

        And this does not, of course, prevent Pakistanis and Nigerians and other non-Arab Muslims from being fanatical Mohammedans, nor does it prevent them from declaring others to be Takfir if it suits their purposes.

  18. Jack Diamond says

    Jun 8, 2015 at 4:15 am

    Fat Boy in the photo on the right is Mullah Tahir Ashrafi. He has a history of making carefully qualified, seemingly liberal statements, such as criticizing blasphemy laws while at the same time defending them. But this is the same character who in 2013 said that suicide attacks are permitted in Afghanistan as long as U.S. forces are present in the country. He added “Palestine is occupied by Israel, Kashmir by India, and Afghanistan by the US. So if the Muslims don’t have the atomic bomb, they should sacrifice their lives for God.”

    That’s who he really is.

    http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http://www.tolonews.com/en/afghanistan/9627-pakistan-ulema-permits-suicide-attacks&date=2013-03-05

    The Mullah is also a member of the DPC (Defense of Pakistan Council) which includes his good friend Hafiz Saeed. Hafiz Saeed is the founder of Lashkar-e-Taiba, the jihad terror group that carried out the Mumbai massacre. Lashkar had connections to the ISI and, predictably, Pakistan’s Supreme Court exonerated Saeed, but Hafiz Saeed is a jihad terrorist. In one of his sermons in 2012 Saeed said
    “the ultimate end of the United States and the West is near, and Islam will completely dominate the lands of the world.” This is Mullah Ashrafi’s friend and associate. (Saeed’s brother is Hafiz Masood, appointed imam at a mosque by the father of dead American ISIS video producer Ahmad Abousamra, Dr. Abousamra, the father, on the board that ran the Islamic Society of Boston. Masood now works with
    brother Saeed in Lahore).

    No doubt Mullah Ashrafi could tell us which “killing people and destroying their properties” is actually considered a righteous act, maybe after a few drinks (he is rumored to imbibe).

    http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-303424150.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Difa-e-Pakistan_Council
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/pakistani-brothers-reflect-their-countrys-contradictions/2012/10/28/f29af3ea-1c52-11e2-8817-41b9a7aaabc7_story.html

  19. William Lucas Harvey Jr. says

    Jun 8, 2015 at 4:35 am

    This sounds much like America’s apparent Pro Islam, Pro Muslim, “Imperial” Potus, who makes Statements to Americans such as – “The Islamic State is not Islamic”, “Islam has always been part of America”, and “Whatever we once were, we are no longer a Christian nation”.- plus MORE.

    • tilda says

      Jun 8, 2015 at 4:53 am

      Sound bytes.

      Understand how they work and how they are used (in an attempt) to programme you.

  20. tilda says

    Jun 8, 2015 at 4:51 am

    1. Pakistani Muslim Scholars = Oxymoron.

    2. Why is it always men?

  21. duh_swami says

    Jun 8, 2015 at 5:43 am

    The Quran is a dark and evil fairy tale, whispered into the ear of a psychotic Arab by an incoherent angel named Gabriel’…

    it was Gabriel wot dun it…You never hear Mahoundians talking about the glories of Gabriel. And most kuffar writing have also forgotten. All Quran verses written should acknowledge the author…Gabriel. Also, one of the most important aspects of Islam, ignored and overlooked, are jinn, and their effect on individual Mahoundians and world affairs. The proper study of Islam should include Gabrialology and jinnology, two of the invisible pillars of Islam.

    • Westman says

      Jun 8, 2015 at 9:46 am

      InterestIng how the Muslim response grinds to a halt when the kafir starts asking questions about the purpose and nature of jinns. Will they still be hidden in Jannah?

    • Huck Folder says

      Jun 8, 2015 at 2:40 pm

      “The Book of Hate™” – composed by allah, delivered by Gabriel, regurgitated by mo, collected with the other garbage by ‘the companions’, then EDITED by Uthman, (MUCH later!) WITHOUT guidance from Gabriel. Every other version and original evidence was then destroyed. Which not only made its uniqueness infallible, it covered the collective arses of Uthman and the koran writing committee.

      Yet it’s jot and tittle perfect with that at allah’s right hand.

      She has hands?

      To wank mo?

      • duh_swami says

        Jun 8, 2015 at 3:22 pm

        No one really knows if those words were the words of Allah, or the words of Gabriel. It’s interesting that Allah would trust a drunken angel when Mercury is the messenger of the gods, and Mercury is a god…
        Also, Allah’s demeanor and temperament is more like the god Mars than the Moon god Sin…Actually, Islam is a hybrid of the qualities of the various gods of antiquity…but that is another story…

  22. Jamsticky Lowoso says

    Jun 8, 2015 at 6:36 am

    If they are stopping Muslims from using the phrases jihad fi sabilillah and qital fi sabilillah they will have to require Muslims to omit many parts of the Qursn in recitation. I wonder how that will go over.

  23. GbA says

    Jun 8, 2015 at 10:45 am

    A recent release about a Muslima who left islam after she actually read the Qur’an makes me wonder how many Muslims have actually read that book!

  24. voegelinian says

    Jun 8, 2015 at 3:02 pm

    This is the same Pakistan Ulema Council that has endorsed jihad-martyrdom suicide bombings…

    Every one of the 56 nations organized and adjudicated in the O.I.C. (Organization of Islamic Cooperation) has an Ulema Council. They are extremely important — they are the backbone of Islamic law (which means life, culture, politics, jihiad — everything). They are the backbone of Islam globally. The Counter-Jihad needs to study and spotlight their activities (meetings, fatwas, fiqh, press releases, participation in the OIC activities), and highlight the common ground consensus among them all. It would be thereby harder for the PC MC and their Islamopologist friends to accuse the Counter-Jihad of exaggerating a Tiny Minority of Extremists “fringe”.

  25. voegelinian says

    Jun 8, 2015 at 3:14 pm

    “The phrase ‘prayer and peace be upon him’ [PBUH] is exclusive to Muhammad.”

    Actually, Muslims also honor Abraham (Ibrahim) that way — and in addition, refer to Abraham as an “excellent model of conduct” (only Muhammad and Abraham get that title) — ironically in the context of Koran 60:4 where Allah praises Abraham for declaring his eternal hatred for all who don’t believe in Allah only:

    “There is a goodly pattern for you in Abraham and those with him, when they told their people:…there hath arisen between us and you hostility and hate for ever until ye believe in Allah only…”

  26. Jack Diamond says

    Jun 8, 2015 at 5:18 pm

    The phrase is almost always translated as blessings, blessings and the peace of Allah be upon, because the actual translation, the prayers of Allah be upon him, was problematic as in the translator didn’t think it is appropriate to say that God and His Angels would pray upon (inferring praying to) the prophet Mohamed, so he changed it to “send blessings.”
    http://answering-islam.org/Responses/Menj/pbuh.htm

    “A noteworthy observation is that in English Muslims often speak the phrase “peace be upon him” or put (PBUH) into a written text after mentioning any one of prophets, thus creating the appearance of giving equal honor to all of them. The original Arabic expression Salla Allahu alaihi wa sallam is, however, used exclusively for Muhammad. All other prophets receive honoring phrases of a lesser kind.

    After making reference to any of the other prophets Muslims say alaihi al-salam which means “upon him (be) the peace”; written form in English texts: e.g. Ibrahim (AS).

    After mentioning the name of Muhammad Muslims either say the above mentioned phrase Salla Allahu alaihi wa sallam or alternatively alaihi al-salat wa al-salam which means “upon him (be) the prayer and the peace”. In either case, Muslims ask for something more special and additional for Muhammad, i.e. “al-salat” (the prayer), and by doing so express that Muhammad is of higher rank than all other prophets.

    Though we are not aware of an explicit prohibition in Islamic law to do so, most Muslims would look somewhat bewildered and perhaps even protest if anyone were to use Salla Allahu alaihi wa sallam or alaihi al-salat wa al-salam after mentioning Noah, Abraham, David, or any of the other prophets.”
    http://answering-islam.org/Index/P/pbuh.html

    You may be correct about Abraham but this is what I based my own comment.

    Mentioning Abraham/Ibrahim reminds of another contradiction in the Qur’an. Which is that Muhammad is declared to be the first Muslim “This have I been commanded: I am the first Moslem (Wa ‘Ana ‘Awwalu Al-Muslimin).” S. 6:161-163 “Say (O Muhammad): Lo! I am commanded to worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only). And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims (surrender unto Him). S. 39:11-12” except Ibrahim is explicitly called a Muslim:

    “Ibrahim was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was (an) upright (man), a Muslim (musliman), and he was not one of the polytheists”. S. 3:67

    as was Jesus “I inspired the disciples to have faith in Me and Mine Messenger: they said, ‘We have faith, and do thou bear witness that we bow to Allah as Muslims.’” S. 5:110-111 and Moses “Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe.” S. 7:143

    So how is Muhammad the first Muslim, when Ibrahim is called the first Muslim, except Moses
    is called the first believer, except Adam and Noah are Muslim prophets too? More wonders of Allah.

  27. Jack Diamond says

    Jun 8, 2015 at 5:45 pm

    “this obligation (loyalty and enmity) comes from the creed of Ibrahim, the creed we are ordered to follow “there is for you an excellent example to follow in Ibrahim and those with him, when they said to their people “we are clear of you and whatever you worship besides Allaah. We have rejected you and between us and you there is enmity and hatred forever” (Qur’an 60:4)
    –Shaykk Saalih bin Fawzaan on Al Walaa wal-Baraa

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