
There is no “State of Palestine” at this time. This is part of the ongoing pressure upon Israel to create one. Creating one will be a great victory for the global jihad force, as a “State of Palestine” will inevitably be a new jihad base for renewed attacks against what remains of Israel. Events will unfold just as they did when the Israelis withdrew from Gaza: while the international media hailed a new era of peace, the “Palestinians” gutted installations and prepared for jihad.
This recognition could end up being as large a blot on the Catholic Church’s record as the Inquisition and the many Catholic clerics all over Europe who went along with the Nazi program against Jews during World War II. The “Palestinians” make no secret on official PA TV of the fact that they share that same genocidal antisemitic bloodlust. This recognition only validates that bloodlust, and enables it.
As this recognition is given, Christians are being persecuted by Islamic jihadists all over the Middle East — Islamic jihadists with the same supremacist ideology as that which motivates the “Palestinians.” In response to this persecution, the bishops of the Catholic Church pursue a “dialogue” with Muslim leaders that makes everyone involved feel good about themselves, but doesn’t do a single thing to alleviate that persecution. And the bishops in the U.S. actively move to silence those who dare speak out about the true nature and magnitude of that persecution, and to prevent them from being heard in Catholic settings. Now, with this recognition, the Church is actively aligning itself with the jihad force, and demonstrating the great lesson of our age, that terrorism works: murder enough people and issue enough genocidal threats, and the whole world will cower at your feet.
The Vatican, by recognizing the genocidal jihad entity that is or will be the “State of Palestine,” is creating a huge moral dilemma for those Catholics who believe that Israel, as being on the front lines of the global jihad, ought to be supported, and that jihad terror, as represented by the “Palestinians” as well as by the persecutors of Christians, ought to be opposed. This is a political decision that has nothing to do with the substance of the faith, but these Church policies are heading the faithful toward a disaster of which they are largely ignorant and for which, thanks to their bishops, they are completely unprepared. Do those who see this disaster coming still have a place in Francis’ progressive, ever-so-modern Catholic Church?
“Vatican signs treaty recognizing State of Palestine,” Times of Israel, June 26, 2015:
The Vatican on Friday signed a historic accord with Palestine, two years after officially recognizing it as a state, in a move criticized by the Israeli Foreign Ministry.
The accord, a treaty covering the life and activity of the Church in Palestine, was the first since the Vatican recognized the Palestinian state in February 2013. The step was agreed in principle last month and condemned by Israel as a setback for the peace process.
The Foreign Ministry said Friday in response that it “regrets” the Vatican’s decision to sign the “one-sided” text.
“This hasty step damages the prospects for advancing a peace agreement, and harms the international effort to convince the PA to return to direct negotiations with Israel,” the Foreign Ministry said in a statement.
“We also regret the one-sided texts in the agreement which ignore the historic rights of the Jewish people in the Land of Israel and to the places holy to Judaism in Jerusalem. Israel cannot accept the unilateral determinations in the agreement which do not take into account Israel’s essential interests and the special historic status of the Jewish people in Jerusalem,” the statement added.
“The Palestinians continue to act unilaterally which distances us from any chance of holding direct dialogue,” said Deputy Foreign Minister Tzipi Hotovely.
“I regret that the Vatican decided to participate in a step that blatantly ignores the history of the Jewish people in Israel and Jerusalem. Any attempt by the Palestinians, or any other actor to undermine our historic right to Jerusalem and our country will met by staunch opposition by us,” she said.
The treaty makes clear that the Holy See has switched its diplomatic relations from the Palestinian Liberation Organization to the State of Palestine.
The Vatican had welcomed the decision by the UN General Assembly in 2012 to recognize a Palestinian state. But the treaty is the first legal document negotiated between the Holy See and the Palestinian state and constitutes an official recognition.
“Yes, it’s a recognition that the state exists,” said Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico Lombardi last month.
Israeli officials criticized the Vatican announcement in May.
“We’re disappointed by the decision taken by the Holy See. We believe that such a decision is not conducive to bringing the Palestinians back to the negotiating table,” Foreign Ministry spokesperson Emmanuel Nahshon told The Times of Israel at the time.
“Israel will study the agreement and consider its next steps accordingly,” a brief statement from the ministry said.
The text of the treaty deals with essential aspects of the life and activity of the Catholic Church in Palestine, a Vatican statement said in May.
“Both parties agreed that the work of the Commission on the text of the Agreement has been concluded, and that the agreement will be submitted to the respective authorities for approval ahead of setting a date in the near future for the signing,” it noted.
The Vatican has been referring unofficially to the state of Palestine for at least a year.
During Pope Francis’ 2014 visit to the Holy Land, the Vatican’s official program referred to Abbas as the president of the “state of Palestine.” In the Vatican’s latest yearbook, the Palestinian ambassador to the Holy See is listed as representing “Palestine (state of).”
The Vatican’s foreign minister, Monsignor Antoine Camilleri, acknowledged the change in status, given that the treaty was initially inked with the PLO and is now being finalized with the “state of Palestine.” But he said the shift was simply in line with the Holy See’s position.
The Holy See clearly tried to underplay the development, suggesting that its 2012 press statement welcoming the UN vote constituted its first official recognition. Nowhere in that statement does the Vatican say it recognizes the state of Palestine, and the Holy See couldn’t vote for the UN resolution because it doesn’t have voting rights at the General Assembly.
The 2012 UN vote recognized Palestine as a non-member observer state, made up of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem, lands Israel captured in the 1967 Mideast war.
The Palestinians celebrated the vote as a milestone in their quest for international recognition. Most countries in Africa, Asia and South America have individually recognized Palestine. In Western Europe, Sweden took the step last year, while several parliaments have approved non-binding motions urging recognition….
Kevin says
Pope Francis has abdicated his earthly role.
As a now former Catholic, I view him as an enabler. Well-intended in his own mind, but an accomplice to slaughter of innocents.
Charli Main says
The anti Christ has slunk into the sheep pen, disguised as the good shepherd. Satan has finally got HIS man steering the Christian ship on to the rocks of Islam.
Christians of the Middle East you have been sold out to Baal.
deja vu says
Well said, Charli Main, but one quibble. The Pope does not represent Christendom. The Christian ship is steered by Jesus Christ who crushed the head of Satan on the cross. What we are witnessing today is Satan’s last hurrah – he knows his time is short. He is still being held on a leash, despite appearances. All hell (literally) will be let loose once that leash is removed by God. We haven’t seen anything yet.
It’s worth remembering that persecution of Christians achieves the opposite of what Baal desires.There are uncounted thousands of people leaving Islam in the Middle East, but are keeping it under wraps for obvious reasons.
Kepha says
Amen, deja vu.
Bamaguje says
I have to say… the Pope is something of an idiot.
Instead of mobilizing his Christian flock against the Islamist savages wreaking havoc on his Christians around the world, he is busy chasing shadows recognizing a fictitious Palestinian state of genocidal anti-Semitic Muslims, and hyperventilating about global warming.
Another Crusade against rampaging Islamist savages is long overdue… and Pope Francis should be leading the charge like one of his predecessors, Pope Urban II, who mobilized Christians against Jihadists menacing Christians in Middle east a thousand years ago.
Steve says
As a RC . I have no time for what the Vatican says . They don’t represent me .
As for the Vatican links . SS Handschar divisions , Husseini , the mufti a Jerusalem . And aiding SS and Gestapo , to escape in WW2 . They’re all linked .
That’s just the Vatican as both the Nazis and Handschar SS (Muslim SS run by Husseini ) targeted Christians for execution .
Many priests were killed defending their flocks . The Vatican ignored them and has chosen its destiny .
gungadin says
To paraphrase Michelle Obama “For the first time in my life, I am ASHAMED to call myself Catholic”
malcolm says
@Kevin
I am not sure if you were ever a Catholic, or just an ignoramus, either way a Catholic is loyal to his God, His Church, and his Pope.
There is nobility in courage, loyalty, and truth opposed to a weed that blows every which way
mortimer says
There is a two-state solution which the UK government approved in 1920 with the creation of Trans-Jordan out of 77% of the Mandate of Palestine…all of which had been promised to the Jewish lobby. The Jewish leaders accepted this compromise.
Successive Jordanian monarchs and their appointees have clearly stated that Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan. The only thing that doesn’t belong in Jordan according to many local Arabs is the House of the Hashemites who hail from Arabia and were given the prize of their own country by the British as thank you for fighting Turkey in WW I.
There is no need for TWO Palestinian states…Jordan is enough for all the Arabs who are so bigoted that they can’t stand having Jews in the neighborhood.
BTW, the Koran has a handful of verses recognizing that Allah placed ‘the children of Israel’ in the Land of Israel…so these fanatics are contradicted by the Koran as well as the Bible.
Pope Francis is a hopeless Leftist.
shams78 says
wrong, wrong, wrong. Jordan’s native inhabitants are Bedouins whose tribes are distinct from the Palestinian Arabs. The Palestinians currently living in Jordan were expelled from their homes in Palestine and do not belong to the native Jordanian tribes.
shams78 says
Dolt, the Arab Palestinians are not the same as the Arab Bedouin tribals native to Jordan. They belong to different tribes and the Palestinians living in Jordan are just as foreign there as the Hashemites.
Wellington says
So what? Jordan is an artificial country to begin with and represents well over 70% of the original British Mandate. Distinctions between so-called Palestinians, Hashemiites and Bedouins are the stuff of theory, not reality. The fact of the matter is that Arabs got over 70% of the British Mandate back in the 1920s and then were offered about half of the rest of it, with the Jews keeping only about 13% of the original Mandate and where Arabs were given more rights than they have anywhere else in the Arab world. What do you want? A Jordan made up only of Bedouins with no Hashemites or so-called Palestinians? Get real.
shams78 says
Stop with the willful ignorance. Arabs from different tribes and areas are distinct from each other and they can even note differences in each other’s dialects.
In some Arab states like South Yemen and Western Sahara they want to split from the rule of their fellow Arabs who are from different tribal origins, ie. the Morrocan Arabs are not of the same tribes as the Western Sahrawi Arabs, North and South Yemenis belong to different distinct tribes.
Would you like it if Italy annexes Austria and decides to kick out all Austrians to Germany on the grounds that they are both German?
You are also either ignorant or deliberately repeating propaganda. Trans Jordan was never regarded as Palestine, even according to TE Lawrence’s maps. The area called Palestine by the British during WW I clearly did not include Trans Jordan.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/OETA_Syria.png
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/Lawrence_of_Arabia%27s_map%2C_presented_to_the_Eastern_Committee_of_the_War_Cabinet_in_November_1918.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/Middle_East_in_1921%2C_UK_Government_map%2C_Cab24-120-cp21-2607.jpg
The fact of the matter is that even if they did, the zionists who fantasize about having annexed trans jordan should realize how much of a tiny minority Jews would be in such a state with a massive amount of Arabs.
Wellington says
You stop with the ignorance. Maps of vilayets during Ottoman rule mean nothing. The Ottoman Empire was no more after 1918 and to the victors belong the spoils (as has been the case with the Islamic world too from the seventh century onwards).
The fact of the matter is that the British Mandate of Palestine created in 1920 at San Remo definitely included what became Transjordan in 1921 (which was some 78% of the British Mandate of Palestine) where no Jews were allowed. Moreover, of the 22% left of the British Mandate of Palestine, the Jews were offered approximately half of this 22% by the UN partition plan of 1947, which of course the Jews accepted and the Arab Muslim world did not and never has, which is why we have the damn mess in the West Bank and Gaza to the present day. Jews were more than prepared to compromise and Muslims were not (and the few who did offer a hand of friendship to the Jews like old King Abdullah of Jordan and Anwar Sadat of Egypt were assassinated).
Moreover, you got something else wrong. The so-called Palestinians were not (with a few exceptions) expelled from their homes in the 22% that was left of the British Mandate of Palestine. They chose to leave at the beginning of the 1948 War because they were told and believed that the new Jewish state would be crushed, which of course it wasn’t. Those Arabs who remained in the new Israel received Israeli citizenship, yet another testimony to the fact that the only truly decent and free country in that part of the world is Israel.
Finally, the term “Palestine” through history has had boundaries never long constant and many sources (e.g., Columbia Encyclopedia) have described Palestine as expansively as all the land between Egypt and Syria. So wise up.
shams78 says
Read again, these are not Ottoman maps. These were the maps drawn up by Lawrance of Arabia and the British government. They clearly show Palestine without Transjordan.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/Lawrence_of_Arabia%27s_map%2C_presented_to_the_Eastern_Committee_of_the_War_Cabinet_in_November_1918.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/Middle_East_in_1921%2C_UK_Government_map%2C_Cab24-120-cp21-2607.jpg
Arabs were promised all the former Arab populated asian territories of the Ottoman Empire to become part of a new Arab state before the Balfour Declaration.
Wellington says
I did not say they were Ottoman maps. Rather I said they were maps of vilayets of the Ottoman Empire, regardless of who made them.
As for promises to Arabs by the Brits, you are of course referring to the Hussein-MacMahon correspondence (1915) but, as the Brits later pointed out, nowhere in this correspondence is Palestine specifically mentioned. In fact, the Brits latter averred that the omission was intentional.
But all this is water under the bridge. Do you really want to argue that even if Palestine had been mentioned in the Hussein-MacMahon correspondence that therefore Israelis should just pack up their bags now and hand Israel over to the Arab world? C’mon. The fact of the matter is that of the original British Mandate of Palestine of 1920 some 87% of it ended up as Jordan or the three sections given to the Arabs in the 1947 UN partition plan. But some 13% to the Jews was still too much because the Arab position was then and is now that the Arabs get everything and the Jews get nothing.
I also see you didn’t address my two points about so-called Palestinians not being expelled in the 1948 War and also the expansive definition of Palestine through the ages. You have no case.
shams78 says
They were not maps of the Ottoman provinces. They delineated the British plans for the post-Ottoman Middle East. Lawrence’s maps clearly shows that fact with Lebanon being labelled as “French”, “Armenia” in Cilicia, and three different parts of Syria, Iraq, and Jordan divided up for the Sharif of Mecca’s sons, Feisal, Zeid, and Abdullah.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/Lawrence_of_Arabia%27s_map%2C_presented_to_the_Eastern_Committee_of_the_War_Cabinet_in_November_1918.jpg
The British map shows the planned French and British mandates with the Sykes Picot line dividing Syria and Iraq.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/Middle_East_in_1921%2C_UK_Government_map%2C_Cab24-120-cp21-2607.jpg
zionist paramilitary groups which later became the IDF engaged in violence in Mandate Palestine against both Arabs and British. They killed and hung British soldiers like Sergeant Clifford Martin and Sergeant Mervyn Paice and even murdered the Swedish diplomat Folke Bernadotte who had saved Jews from concentration camps in World War II.
Champ says
The only thing truthful written by “shams78” is his choice of a moniker. His contributions are indeed a “sham” …and plural “shams”, no less, lol!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wellington, thank you for providing us with the TRUTH here!
Wellington says
The first one you provided was a map of Ottoman vilayets and a few maps here and there prove very little. By contrast, the British Mandate of Palestine, which was much more official, included what became Jordan. Also, as I already stated, the British did not mention Palestine in the Hussein-MacMahon correspondence. Finally, there were certainly Jewish terrorist groups (e.g., the Stern Gang) but two points about these: 1) they were only formed because the Arabs under Haj Amin al-Husseini, Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, initiated terror against Jews; and (this is huge) 2) Jewish moderates took care of Jewish extremists while in the Arab Muslim world Arab extremists took care of Arab moderates, which is still the pattern to this very day.
Really, you want to rely on a few maps to make your case over and over again? Move on.
Wellington says
Thank you, Champ. Wow, between someone like shams78 and Stardusty Psyche, getting the truth out and clearing things of inaccuracy, plain foolishness, or deception is sometimes deuce difficult.
Hope you are well and your family too. Take care, my friend.
Gina says
Has the Pope lost his mind
N why is he not concerned with the killing of Christians n Jews or unbeliever
KrazyKafir says
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, this Pope is an unmitigated disaster.
Huck Folder says
I think he would do well in bed with Bathhouse Barry.
How does that lie with you?
Angemon says
I think I’m starting to realize why Ratzinger quit his job…
Walter Sieruk says
The Vatican recognizing a “Palestinian state” which is, of course , Islamic a sign the the Catholic clerics might be afraid of the wrath of the jihadists. If so does that means the Roman Catholic clerics at the Vatican are cowards ? If so that doesn’t say much for them. Could it also be that the spirit of the Anti-Christ has power or at least some influence on the Vatican clerics ? For the Bible predict that on of the things that the Anti-Christ will do to Israel s divide the land. As seen in Daniel 11:39.
deja vu says
Walter Sieruk: If so does that means the Roman Catholic clerics at the Vatican are cowards ?
I believe it means they speak out of both sides of their duplicitous mouths. They know perfectly well what they’re doing – what they’ve always done, as you rightly suggest. If they’re not part of the answer they’re part of the problem.
Voytek Gagalka says
“There is no “State of Palestine” at this time.”
There will NEVER be any state of “Palestine,” EVER! Once, security of the State of Israel will not permit its creation as long Mohammedans will not erase their Jew-hatred (doubt if that ever happen, they would have to cease to be his followers). Secondly, even if (G. forbid!) Israel will be no more (that is if those barbarians will win) – even then there will not be any “palestine” but a merged and insignificant province to some future caliphate, and never as any independent state. What a joke of their claim! It is just scam to which most of the West, unfortunately, falls.
somehistory says
Judas Iscariot turned against Christ and led the soldiers of Rome to where Jesus was in order for them to arrest Him without incident. (Matthew 26:48) He even gave them a signal, saying, “It is the One Whom I kiss. Seize Him and lead Him away.”
Betrayal. Then, of Christ. Now, of Christians and, of course, Jews, whom muslims view as targets of their hatred for all things belonging to the True God.
Ed says
Judas was Jewish as well as the other 10 disciples, plus Jesus himself.
So that “betrayal” by Judas was not because Judaism, since the others didn’t betray him.
Islam, since its inception, is the sworn enemy of Christianity, and for the Vatican to side with their enemy should against the Jewish people must be considered an act against God.
somehistory says
Yes, satan ‘entered’ Judas and he became greedy…he was in charge of the money box…and stealing from it. Remember his attitude when Jesus was being prepared for death and burial by the woman with the perfumed oil who poured it on Jesus’ feet and Judas complained of the high value as though it was wasted (John 12:6). He was not concerned with the poor, but with his need for money. So, he sold Jesus for the silver..
Since we are living in the time when Christians and Jews are again being betrayed, we can only go by prophecy and the actions of the ones involved in the betrayal. With Judas, it’s all written down for us to read of it having happened and why. We are witnessing the betrayal in real time and it will not be overlooked by the True God.
Omar BEDDALI says
There are 2 things.
1. The islamic horror,
2. The zionist land despoliator.
Trying to justify the last one by insisting on the horror of the first one is not fair.
Wellington says
You mean those terrible Zionists who run a nation where Israeli Arabs have more rights than do Arabs in any of the over twenty Arab countries? You mean those awful Zionists who bought land at exorbitant prices from absentee Muslim landlords during the British Mandate period or who took land in warfare as peoples from all over the earth have when given the opportunity due to martial conflict? You mean those wretched Zionists who drained swamps and irrigated desert, thus proving they really are “despoliators” of the land? You mean those Zionists?
deja vu says
Omar Beddali: ‘The zionist land despoliator.’
Really? The land which has turned green and fertile since the rightful inhabitants returned? Whose people invented the microchip you use in your computer, whose medical care is second to none, whose democratic society is up there with the most advanced? Those people?
Do you mean that sliver of land which is a mere one-tenth of 1% of the Middle East? Ah, I guess you mean that tiny strip of land whose inhabitants are expected to keep on surrendering their ancient heritage promised by God as an eternal covenant 5,000 years ago. Perhaps the one whose inhabitants, though 0.02% of the world’s population have won 165 Nobel prizes as against Muslims at 20% of the world’s population, who have won a niggardly 6 at the last count.
Have a look at these photos taken years before the Jews returned to their homeland in 1948.
Arab settlement of Kakun 1911
http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~dhershkowitz/pic115a-m.jpg
Arab settlement in the Esdraelon Valley 1911
http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~dhershkowitz/pic68a-m.jpg
Bedouin encampment 1893
http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~dhershkowitz/pic42-m.jpg
Did you know that no village or town was built by Arabs in the Holy Land? They simply re-named those built by the Jews. Why do you think that was if they were its rightful inhabitants?
Christian Knight says
He who is against Israel is against GOD… Rome has become the whore of Babylon,, and this pope has become the false prophet,,, It’s a falling away from the church the BIBLE speaks about.. Are we really living in the End of Times..With the slaughtering of Christians in the Middle East and with the silence from the church (which is deafening) You’ll see this taking place in Europe and America,and they’ll have their Satanic one world religion Chrislam with the pope as it head….
Cliff Stewart says
The damn “‘Vatican” doesn’t rule or run the world. To hell with what they say or do. People are just too damn eager to put some jerk-off in a so-called “leadership” role. And those clowns haven’t showed me anything that would give them such authority.The “pope” is a joke. He is supposed to be the so-called head of the Catholic Church. But that in itself is open for debate. If a bunch of IDIOTS want to kneel down and kiss a human and put him above the one and only true GOD then by all means go ahead and show your stupidity. I ain’t kissing no man’s hand OR ASS. And all the Vatican is actually is a money haven for crooks and creeps.
Johnny Pallyswine says
These holy water washed Vaticanimals do not run the world. They wish they did. So they could kill off all of the natives they failed to kill and still all of the world’s gold and silver and boys and girls to play with
silvergreycat says
I am saddened and disappointed by the Holy See’s action today. Catholics living under the PA’s jurisdiction will still be viewed/treated as dhimmis* no matter what the treaty says.
*source… http://www.dhimmitude.org/archive/Rights-of-Non-Muslims.pdf
silvergreycat says
update (or Mr. Abbas’ government won’t uphold the treaty despite signing it)… http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/06/islamic-state-in-palestine-tells-christians-to-leave-by-ramadans-end-or-be-killed
Johnny Pallyswine says
This pope is a Good Catholic only following the pure words of his religion. Actually if a bunch of guys in robes surrounded by stolen merchandise want to wash their unused genitalia in holy water, how should we react to it?
There were around 20 million Catholics and 20,000 priests in Nazi Germany. The vast majority of the German clergymen and the German people, including the 40 million Protestants, went along with Hitler’s ideology and were not persecuted by the Nazis.
Before this pr1ck came into power, he was praised by the world’s worthless MSM who are controlled by the paper pushers.
Ed says
“We also regret the one-sided texts in the agreement which ignore the historic rights of the Jewish people in the Land of Israel”
So why did they sign it anyway?
My guess is that they also signed a protection treaty.
Charles Martel says
Future historians will this era and wonder at the stupendous dhimmitude displayed by those who ought to have been in a position to push back. Even sooner than that, however, our children and their children will curse our inaction as we handed their birthright to monsters, savages and 7th Century barbarians from hell.
Mark A says
I’m Catholic and I have asked myself the same question that Robert Spencer poses about whether there is a place in the Church for those of us who support Israel, who think both Hamas and the Palestinian Authority are terrorist organizations and that militant Islamists present an existential threat to western democracy, Christianity, religious freedom and so many other freedoms that we take for granted in Western societies.
I recently went to a seminar on Islam at my church, presented by a Francisican brother from Pakistan who, like so many others in the Church, presented Islam as a religion of peace. I came to the seminar with a copy of the Koran and I stood up in the question period and read out some of the verses – that Robert has quoted repeatedly – which justify violence against the People of the Book (Islamists place Catholics in that category), against non-Muslims, which talk about dhimmi status, the payment of jizya with willing submission etc etc, – regular JW readers will be very familiar with these passages – and asked how these obvious incitements to violence against, and subjugation of, Christians, Jews and non-Muslims could be reconciled with the idea that “Islam is a religion of peace.”.
In answer to my questions, I was told that I misunderstood the Koran. But no attempt was made to help me understand what the lecturer said I misunderstood.
I was the only one at the lecture who stood up to question the “Islam is a religion of peace” theme. Everyone else seemed to accept it without question.
I’ve given this a lot of thought since then and I’ve concluded that the best course of action is to stay in the Church and be very vocal in my support of Israel, my lack of support for the Palestinians and my belief that Islamists pose a major threat to Catholics and all Christians – and all other non-Muslims – as well as to western democracy, western culture and our western way of life in general.
Any other Catholics out there care to comment on this or add to this? Can we get a discussion going?
malcolm says
@ Mark
You can trust in the teaching Catholic Church. Good for you in asking questions. The Church is under no illusions about Islam or secularist.
There are about 130 Countries that recognize the Palestinian State and those that do not, might believe in the two State solution however will want to have a clear picture of negotiations between Israel & Palestinians.
Lets look at the hypocrisy here. Those calling themselves former Catholics on this site is a red herring, there is no proof that they are. Do you hear anyone giving up there citizenship from the 130 countries who recognize the two State solution. What well informed Catholic would put the State above his Church?
I trust Robert Spencer’s insights on Islam. The Catholic Church is not going to follow a worldly solution to violence, Her mission is of the Law of God and of Christ example. As you can see on this thread the bigoted remarks of those venting on Pope Frances, there is no love lost for the Catholic Church, you can believe this: that if we did their bidding this mob would be the first to condemn us.
The Church supports Christians in oppressive situations prays, morally and financially.We do this in fact for all people regardless. I live in Africa and have seen the moral weakness of the West and East.
The Church teaches about the inherent dignity to all people from the womb to the tomb. This right is not respect in the North, South, East, or West. This is on our belief that God wills that all men be saved regardless of how great a sinner they might be. This does not mean that we are pacifist as we are within our rights to protect our brother and sister from unjust aggressors.
We have done this look at the battle of Lapanto when the Pope called on Catholics to do battle with the most powerful armada assembled. Did not the secular powers build their navel cannons, did not they support them with trade and safe haven for their ships. It was Catholics through prayer and a small navel force who destroyed that Ottoman force who were supported secularist in
Europe and our separated brethren the traitor former Catholics.
The West and East are useless, they are morally weak, the bigots on this thread are a laugh a minute.
You can trust the Catholic Church we know what the fight is about and win.
veritas says
Pop culture history of the Church in WWII and various Inquiries is shameless. Go to the Catholic League’s website and look up Inquisition. Which one? And didn’t the Church take the actions against Muhommedans and Albigensians that is so desired now? Yet you criticize the Church which includes me since I am the Church. The WWII comment is weak as water on the historical scale. You have adopted the hysterical scale. Your Anti-Catholic attitudes burst forth and you are becoming a Know Nothing. I expected better on this website.
Keil says
Recognition of a “Palestinian State” is as fictitious as anything could be. PA shows that running a viable state is not an Arab thing (look around the Mid-East). The Pallies are bent on the destruction of the only Jewish state while there is a dozen of Moslem countries – failed or not.
ninetyninepct says
I am a Catholic. Recently the pope caved to climate fear mongering and sucked up to that idiot UN. Now he caves to islamic terrorists. He also held islamic utterings in the Vatican. As far as I am aware, muzzies “praying” in a building that is not a mosque automatically make it a muzzie place of hate.
I will NEVER EVER set foot on any so called Catholic building. Never. Donations for the “Church”? Get stuffed, pope. get it from the muzzies. Can we expect to see massive sales of used pews now, replaced by “prayer” mats. No more baptisms – just beheadings.
Too bad I have to follow the guidelines of this forum. I would truly like to express my real feelings and opinions. Needless to say – See you around, pope, the one person humanity had counted on to fight for survival of humans against islamic terror.
Robert Wagner says
The Pope should realize that the animosity between Shiite and Sunni is greater than that between the Protestants and Catholics of the seventeenth century(forty year war).
Hezbollah is Shiite and Hamas is Sunni, If there ever is a Palestinian State, there will be a murderous civil war.
DAVID R, GROESBECK says
Will this fool still be calling for recognition of the “State of Palestine” when the Islamic flag flies over Rome & all are forced to pay jizzya like all obedient subservient dhimmis? My minimal respect for this man has just evaporated.
Bill says
This Pope is every Muslim’s dream come true:
-Pope Francis’ recent Apostolic Exhortation, Evangelii gaudium:
No. 253: “True Islam and the proper interpretation of the Koran oppose all violence.”
No. 250: [He condemn Christians as being as intolerant and violent as Muslims are today]: “An attitude of openness in truth and in love must characterize the dialogue with the followers of non-Christian religions, in spite of various obstacles and difficulties, especially forms of fundamentalism ON BOTH SIDES”.
-1/15/15 breitbartnews.com “The Pope also said that “everyone not only has the freedom and the right but also the duty to speak one’s mind for the sake of the common good. But without offending.” [Translation: “Don’t criticize Muslims” — and to hell with the First Amendment]
-He’s repeating what Iyad Abdullah Ameen Madni, the head of the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (the UN’s Islamic coalition) said about free speech “We must show courage to openly discuss and address sensitive issues such as limits to freedom of expression…”
-2/2015 foxnews.com For the first time in history, Islamic prayers and readings from the Quran will be heard at the Vatican.
-2/25/15 abcnews.com In January, Lombardi had to explain that the pope wasn’t justifying violence when, in response to the Paris terrorist attacks against satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo, Francis said that someone who insults his mother could expect “a punch” in return.
And he wants to guarantee that Muslims will soon dominate the world simply by out-populating all non-Muslim cultures:
-1/19/15 usatoday.com Pope Francis, after a visit to the largest Catholic nation in Asia [the Philippines has a birth rate of 3.0], says Catholics may have a moral responsibility to limit the number of their children and need not reproduce “like rabbits.”
But they’re okay with Muslims reproducing “like rabbits”:
-9/29/13 http://www.emirates247.k-09-29-1.522770 “70% of global population growth over the next 30 years will be in Muslim countries”
-4/23/15 pewresearch.org By 2050 30% of the world’s people will be Muslim; their growth rate is twice that of others, overall.
Muslims can do no wrong:
-“Pope praises Iran [Obama’s nuclear] deal” 4/5/15 thehill.com
-5/13/15 breitbart.com Pope Francis moved to recognize a Palestinian state.
-5/16/15 VATICAN CITY (AP) — Pope Francis praised Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas as an “angel of peace”
This Pope has completely changed the Catholic Church, just as Obama has changed America.
peace maker says
I am surprised to read the stupid comments of those who are against pope Francis taking a peacefull and just position of supporting the palestinian cause and people. For you who do not know, Palistine and USA are share one thing, both are occupied by Israel.
you all including Mr. Spenser should read the history and I am happy to attach this video by Miko Paled, hoping you will learn about the truth so you will stop being ignorant.
Angemon says
peace maker posted:
“For you who do not know, Palistine and USA are share one thing, both are occupied by Israel.”
And you expect to be taken seriously?
Huck Folder says
Would that be ‘peace’ as in “The ‘Religion’ of Peace™”?
THIS is a REAL peacemaker:
http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/handguns/usa/1287749945.jpg
It should ‘muzzle’ you for all time.