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CAIR: “Oldest Qur’an” challenges “Islamophobia” — but Saudi scholars discredit it

Jul 27, 2015 12:40 pm By Robert Spencer

Oldest Quran 74Hamas-linked CAIR’s press release says in part:

The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), a prominent Muslim advocacy group, Friday cited a discovery of what may be the earliest fragments of the Quran as an opportunity for Americans of all faiths to increase their understanding of the holy text and to challenge growing Islamophobia.

How could the discovery that a purported Qur’an fragment dates back to the late sixth or early- to mid-seventh century be an opportunity to challenge supposedly “growing Islamophobia”? Hamas-linked CAIR doesn’t explain, aside from this from its top dog Nihad Awad: “We ask Americans of all faiths and backgrounds to use the opportunity offered by this new discovery to obtain or share a copy of the Quran and to use it as an educational tool to help challenge the rising level of Islamophobia in our society.”

That’s a great idea — to use the Qur’an as an educational tool. I’m all for that. Those wishing to obtain an education should be sure to read carefully these verses (among others): 2:190-193; 4:34; 4:89, 5:51; 8:12; 8:39, 8:60; 9:5; 9:14-15; 9:29-30; 9:123; 47:4; 48:29; and 98:6.

And in the meantime, regarding this “oldest Qur’an,” even Saudi scholars are not on board, and echo many of the same objections I made here and here to its status as a seventh-century manuscript: “Saudi scholars discredit UK’s claim of ‘oldest Quran,'” Saudi Gazette, July 27, 2015:

Several Saudi scholars have questioned the veracity of claims a British university has discovered the oldest copy of the Quran, according to the Makkah daily.

Researchers at Birmingham University claimed last week that fragments of a Quran manuscript found in the university library were from one of the world’s oldest surviving copies of the Islamic text and may even have been written by someone who knew Prophet Mohammad (PBUH).

Radiocarbon dating of the two parchment folios containing Quranic verses from chapter 18-20 in Hijazi script were at least 1,370 years old, likely written between 568AD and 645AD.

Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) is believed to have lived between 570AD and 632AD.

And that means that this could be a portion of a pre-Islamic source for the Qur’an.

However, at least three Saudi scholars claim the text must have been written after the Prophet’s death for several reasons.

Abdul Sattar Al Halouji reportedly said the university’s claim could be a publicity stunt.

“It is not possible to ascertain that the parchments were written close to the time of the Prophet (pbuh),” he was quoted as telling Makkah daily. “The university should have examined the ink not the hide on which it was written.”

He said the hide, or animal skin, on which the text was written could be as old as the researchers suggest, but that does not prove the text was written at that time.

Archaeologist Adnan Al Sharif told the newspaper the manuscript was not as old as suggested because during the Prophet’s life, the Quran did not include red ink lines to separate chapters, nor red ink to write the words ‘Bismillah Al Rahman Al Raheem’, which traditionally start a new Surah (chapter), and the order of the holy book was not of that era.

“The manuscript might possibly be from the time of Othman Bin Affan who became Caliph many years after the death of the Prophet (pbuh),” Al Sharif, dean of libraries at Umm Al Qura University, was quoted as saying.

“During the time of the Prophet (pbuh), the Quran was not organised or put in its present day form. Also, there were no colours used.”

He added there were several observations that cast doubt on the Birmingham University claims.

“One of these is the red-colour separation between the Bismillah and the two Surahs of Mariam and Taha. It was not customary during the Prophet’s time to separate between the Surahs. This copy seems to be organised in [an] order which was not so during the time of the Prophet (pbuh),” he said.

Also, radiocarbon examination of a manuscript could only indicate the century in which it was made and not the year, he said.

“There are copies of the Quran in Turkey, Egypt and Yemen dating back to the first Hijra century. This means that they are concurrent to the Birmingham manuscript,” Al Sharif was quoted as saying.

Abbas Tashkandi, another manuscript expert, agreed that examining the hide did not reveal when the text was written.

“The hide may be old but the writing may be new,” he said.

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Filed Under: "Islamophobia", CAIR, claiming victim status, Featured, Qur'an, Saudi Arabia Tagged With: Abbas Tashkandi, Abdul Sattar Al Halouji, Adnan Al Sharif, Birmingham University


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Comments

  1. AnneM says

    Jul 27, 2015 at 12:50 pm

    Jumping at the OPPORTUNITY.

    • mortimer says

      Jul 27, 2015 at 1:22 pm

      Drawing attention to the textual problems weakens the faith of Muslims who have a magical belief in the ‘official stories’.

      This controversy will draw many Muslims into doing their own research. They will read the new revisionist theories and lose their faith in Islam.

      Islam is a house of cards based on a text without provenance.

      • JIMJFOX says

        Jul 28, 2015 at 12:20 am

        “Islam is a house of cards based on a text without provenance.”

        As, I suggest, are ALL ‘holy’ religious texts…

        • TheBuffster says

          Jul 28, 2015 at 1:01 am

          But some religions have a more benevolent content than others, and encourage a very different treatment of unbelievers from others.

          Somebody recently said (I don’t remember who), who would you rather live next door to, Jesus or Mohammad?

          For some reason, even though I’m an atheist, I have a most pronounced preference for Jesus as my neighbor.

          Religions are not all the same in meaning or value.

      • JIMJFOX says

        Jul 28, 2015 at 12:27 am

        “They will read the new revisionist theories and lose their faith in Islam.”

        We would all like to think so- but Mahound has that covered in another
        convenient revelation from Allah—

        Q5:101 “O ye who believe! ask not questions about things which if made plain to you may cause you trouble. But if ye ask about things when the Qur’an is being revealed they will be made plain to you”

        Q5:102 “Some people before you did ask such questions and on that account lost their faith”

      • quotha raven says

        Jul 28, 2015 at 3:20 pm

        To Mortimer – ” They will read the new revisionist theories and lose their faith in Islam. ”

        Let’s hope so, anyway! Cheers! Quotha

  2. jihad3tracker says

    Jul 27, 2015 at 12:51 pm

    I like to stay on cordial terms with men who do not have actual testicles in their pants, so here we go :

    HELLO NIHAD AWAD, “HONEST IBE” HOOPER, COREY SAYLOR, AND THE OTHER PUSSIES WHO WOULD NEVER EVER APPEAR IN THE SAME ROOM WITH ROBERT SPENCER — OR PAM GELLER.

    But, hey folks, let us not be too hard on them and their constant cowardice. Events where Muslims slaughter our fellow Americans make it a real challenge to keep “Islamophobia” going. Yet bills have to be paid, and expensive clothes must be dry-cleaned.

    So, the charade goes on — even though nobody in the U.S. with an IQ higher than the squirrels that inhabit my front yard still listen to CAIR’s sewer pipe of excrement. Maybe one of these days they will grow manly parts . . . however, let’s not hold our breath.

  3. Katnis says

    Jul 27, 2015 at 1:00 pm

    The religion of peace steps forward to justify and explain their actions again and again. What other “religion” has to go to extensive lengths to justify their actions?

    In the case of islam, actions speak louder than words. To understand islam, look at what islam does.

  4. duh_swami says

    Jul 27, 2015 at 1:02 pm

    Not all things that are old have value. If it could be proved that Mahound himself wrote this fragment, it may have some collector or museum value, but it doesn’t help Islam much…as it is…

  5. mortimer says

    Jul 27, 2015 at 1:17 pm

    Muslims Koran scholars must be aware that the more they discuss the Koran, the greater the risk that ALL BELIEF IN IT WILL UNRAVEL!

    The archeology of the Koran does not match the ‘official versions’ about it (yes, more than one ‘official version’).

    The contradictions in the stories, the anomalies and the outright false claims that mullahs make about the Koran will lead many Muslims to examine the Koran (many for the first time) and discover it lacks provenance.

    The whole of Islam UNRAVELS when the Koran is questioned! GOOD!

  6. StarWish246 says

    Jul 27, 2015 at 1:31 pm

    This doesn’t make any sense. When non-Muslims actually study a Qur’an that is translated into their own language – which is what CAIR is asking, the Muslims say that “Only a Qur’an written in Arabic is authentic. All translations are CORRUPTED”.
    So, WHY would CAIR encourage non-Muslims to read a ‘CORRUPTED’ version of the Qur’an? Wouldn’t this be a stupid waste of time?

    • TheBuffster says

      Jul 27, 2015 at 11:35 pm

      Yes, and many Muslims who leave Islam start to lose their faith when they finally read the Koran, because of the irrationality and hatred in it.

      What is CAIR thinking?

      Hey, are they the ones who pass out the sanitized Korans?

      • ItsJo says

        Jul 28, 2015 at 5:06 am

        Just WHY would I EVER want to read the Quran as suggested by CAIR of all organizations? Are the Muslims/Islamists of today, READING OUR BIBLES, or other Religious Books?
        They suggest to ‘understand’ this religion ….again, WHY? And if I don’t CARE to do so, then I am considered a Homophobic?? Then so be it!

        CAIR says NOTHING when this so called religion of peace and it’s hateful followers KILL CHRISTIANS WORLD WIDE-SO WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO UNDERSTAND THIS UGLY, HATEFUL, BARBARIC KILLING OF “INFIDELS” WHO DO NOT WANT TO CONVERT TO THEIR WAY OF THINKING-DO THEY TRY TO UNDERSTAND OTHER RELIGIONS….UH, NO, AND WHEN YOU DON’T BELIEVE AS THEY DO….YOU ARE THEN “KILLABLE” ….NO THANKS CAIR-AS YOU COVER FOR THESE BARBARIC TERRORISTS.

        • ItsJo says

          Jul 28, 2015 at 5:12 am

          Sorry for writing Homophobic in my post, as it should be “Islamophobia”…..or whatever.
          Either way, when CAIR starts to tell Muslims to “Accept ALL OTHER Religions, then and ONLY THEN, should they ask for others to read this Quran to understand. We’ll do so, when all of you, try to UNDERSTAND CHRISTIANITY AND JESUS.

    • tamimisledus says

      Jul 28, 2015 at 8:51 pm

      muslims, de facto, believe that the koran is the pure word of *allah*, the *compassionate*. muslims are too closed minded to realise that not everyone is as gullible as they, so they find it impossible to believe that any one who reads the koran will not be just as taken in by it as they are.
      And when we aren’t taken in by it, they will find a raft of reasons why we “just don’t understand”.
      muslims just live a world of fantasy, and for them, with very few exceptions, they cannot break out of that world.

  7. mortimer says

    Jul 27, 2015 at 1:35 pm

    Abbas Tashkandi said: “The hide may be old but the writing may be new”

    True. In fact, handwriting styles are different every 25 years. Handwriting scholars should be able to pinpoint the 25 year period in which any text was written.

    Most of the revisionist scholars now believe the Koran was first collected about the time of Caliph abd al Malik around about the year 700AD.

  8. Angemon says

    Jul 27, 2015 at 1:54 pm

    Several Saudi scholars have questioned the veracity of claims a British university has discovered the oldest copy of the Quran, according to the Makkah daily.

    Damn those islamopbobes!!! sarc./ off…

  9. Alarmed Pig Farmer says

    Jul 27, 2015 at 2:00 pm

    … obtain or share a copy of the [Holy Ko-Ran] and to use it as an educational tool to help challenge the rising level of Islamophobia in our society.

    Whaddya mean, our society, Kemosabe?

    The commands of Allah set forth in the Holy Ko-Ran are to educate Moslems to challenge the level of Infidels and the rule of law and justice in our society, which oh by the way are diminishing without some supposed discovery. Let’s not drag this great book down into the mire of public relations. The Holy Ko-Ran is the most powerful book in world history; we must not allow its spirit to be demeaned by misrepresentation.

  10. Wellington says

    Jul 27, 2015 at 2:00 pm

    Perhaps Muslims should “obtain or share a copy of the” Bible “and to use it as an educational tool to help challenge” the 1400-year record of Judaismophobia and Christianityophobia in one Muslim society after another. A good place to start would be Saudi libraries and in Saudi homes.

    Muslims again and again encourage non-Muslims to read the Koran (I did and I wasn’t impressed) but will Muslims reciprocate by reading the Bible and other religious texts? Doubt it. There are far more copies of Korans in non-Muslim homes (like mine) than there are Bibles in Muslim homes. In fact, is there a Bible in practically any Muslim home? Again can be seen that Islam is a one-way metaphorical street.

    • Karen says

      Jul 28, 2015 at 8:57 pm

      Excellent points!

  11. Nimrod says

    Jul 27, 2015 at 2:06 pm

    I can explain the belief that the Quran somehow combats “islamophobia”.

    It is common belief among Muslims that anyone who reads the Quran will magically become Muslim. I even told a Muslim once that I had read the Quran but wasn’t Muslim, and he reacted with “how is this possible?”

    So the illogical thinking is 1) infidel reads the Quran 2) infidel magically becomes Muslim 3) the former infidel is no longer “islamophobic” because he or she is now Muslim.

    It’s a case of what is called magical thinking among Muslims. The fact that anyone from CAIR is thinking in this magical manner is not surprising, and just reinforces the fact that CAIR is a theocratic group.

    Islamic rationalism (as ridiculous as that might sound today) had a chance for a little while with Mu’tazila theology, but it died out 600+ years ago. The sad thing is that, if what I’ve read can be believed, it died out because Muslims found anti-rational arguments more compelling and not because its proponents were killed. This suggests that Islam is just so extremely anti-rational that it will naturally kill off rationalism in an organic manner.

    • Alarmed Pig Farmer says

      Jul 27, 2015 at 2:35 pm

      I even told a Muslim once that I had read the Quran but wasn’t Muslim, and he reacted with “how is this possible?”

      He was amazed and confused by the fact that you turned away from the dream of spending eternity in a porno heaven. How could you?

    • gravenimage says

      Jul 27, 2015 at 11:31 pm

      Yes, Nimrod, I’ve heard this—the idea that the vile and vicious Qur’an is supposed to be so compelling that any Kuffar reading it can’t wait to “revert”.

      In reality, like most decent Infidels, I read the Qur’an and was utterly repelled by its calls for violence.

    • Mirren10 says

      Jul 28, 2015 at 6:58 am

      I had a similar experience, Nimrod, with a Kurd taxi driver.

      I told him I had read the koran several times, and his *immediate* reaction was to ask me if I would convert to islam.

      When I replied, never, he asked me why. I explained, and his response was, “you’re a very nice lady, but you’re going to hell”.

      I said you may believe that, but yours is the only religion that wants to punish me and others in *this* life for refusing to accept islam.

      The conversation went rather downhill, after that. 🙂

  12. Champ says

    Jul 27, 2015 at 4:13 pm

    The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), a prominent Muslim advocacy group, Friday cited a discovery of what may be the earliest fragments of the Quran as an opportunity for Americans of all faiths to increase their understanding of the holy text and to challenge growing Islamophobia.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    As a Christian, I will *never* consider the quran — or even these fragments — in any way “holy”. Not ever. Nor is allah the one true God and muhammad His prophet. This demonic-duo are satanic, and the quran is wholly ..UNholy. Hey I don’t need to increase my understanding of this unholy book, YOU DO! CAIR & company are merely tools of satan and I want no part of islam and it’s evil ‘teachings’, etc.

    And it’s islamorealism, not islamophobia …so get with the program.

  13. Champ says

    Jul 27, 2015 at 4:20 pm

    CAIR & Company suffer from >> TRUTHOPHOBIA

    Right back atcha’!

    • Wellington says

      Jul 27, 2015 at 4:33 pm

      Sure do. Good one, Champ.

    • Karen says

      Jul 28, 2015 at 9:03 pm

      “CAIR, a prominent Muslim {cough, choke, gag} advocacy group”. I always love that description. I generally think of them as scum, myself.

      • kay says

        Jul 29, 2015 at 3:48 am

        CAIR – a prominent MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD organization.
        People really need to know about the Muslim Brotherhood.
        Muslim Brotherhood is the octopus. CAIR is one arm of the MB.
        One of very very many.
        MB is your basic global conspiracy nightmare.
        They only seem polite when it suits them. It’s jihad on basically all levels.
        General Sisi in Egypt ended up sentencing a whole bunch of these people to death.

        If the MB in Egypt was able to run a half decent government, they would not have trashed their economy so quickly, then General Sisi would not have had the support for a military overthrow.
        A sustainable MB government in Egypt would have been a fantastic co-operating informal partner for Islamic State. MB comes from the Qutb program. Same with Islamic State.
        The MB actions in Egypt were fascist and criminally insane.
        When the Egyptian MB was overthrown, MB fanatics burned churches and threw people off buildings. The Egyptian army had to destroy a mosque or two.
        MB are NOT nice people. They are worse than Nazi brownshirts.
        They are true Islamic fascists.
        And CAIR is with the general overall MB network.
        Egypt show us that it is not possible to negotiate with the MB.
        All they understand is power and aggression and domination.
        I honestly do not know why Islamists have to be psychopathic criminals, murderers and so forth. But it’s their method of operation.
        It’s very likely that a chunk of the Egyptian population is disgusted by the MB, particularly the younger generation.
        Americans should shudder at the name Muslim Brotherhood.
        They are dangerous sociopaths at best, and bloodthirsty murderers when desperate.

  14. Donovan Nuera says

    Jul 27, 2015 at 4:41 pm

    It is like arguing whether one has a copy of ‘Mein Kampf’ that is 1st edition or 2nd edition……same fantastical delusions of a Yemini tradesman who for some reason liked to hang out alone in a cave by himself….

  15. Kenny says

    Jul 27, 2015 at 5:05 pm

    I can’t understand why everyone is so cynical about this.

    Of course it’s genuine. Next you’ll be telling us that the Hitler diaries were fake and probably the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a fake too! Everyone knows they’re real. Honestly!

    Next we’ll be expected to believe that the earth is round and that Cameron is a spineless upper class twat.

    I mean…really!

  16. Voytek Gagalka says

    Jul 27, 2015 at 5:45 pm

    Every opportunity they are capable to devise, they want to use to poke into our eyes and ears: you see, we are better then you, even our “god” is better (hence their noise-pollutant “allahu-akbar”), and any (false) claim that they discovered or devised something before our ancestors. They even discovered America before Columbus, they, who were only using camel caravans for travel and were barely able to use any ships! They considered Aztecs as Muslims, perhaps sensing their brothers-in-arms as far as mass killings are concerned (hence their claim that Americas are the “muslim” continent).

  17. kay says

    Jul 27, 2015 at 7:21 pm

    I will have a field day with this.
    Clearly, the hide and the writing are two different things.
    This citation HAS been used on youtube to speak about “early authentic Islam.”

    But what the Islamists forget is that THE PRIMARY WRITTEN SOURCES WERE DESTROYED after Uthman compiled the official Koran. We DON’T have the early source and We NEVER WILL.
    The so-called Koran is one guy trying to put together a single coherent text.
    It is not “the work of God”. It is the editorial work of Uthman and no more.
    And we don’t have to care about Uthman. He’s just some guy in the desert.
    There really isn’t any official Koranic text from the early days AND the primary source were all destroyed.
    That means we should all discount the Koran since it is just Uthman’s Koran, which lacks authority.
    That is the key argument. This text was not compiled by a team of scholars. it’s just some guy.
    And we don’t have to believe Uthman.
    There is no “Holy Koran”, no critical edition, only the unverified, unevidenced Uthman Koran.

  18. Baucent says

    Jul 28, 2015 at 6:13 am

    The whole saga leaves Birmingham University looking like a very unscholarly institution. Notice the haste in which they rushed to the media to trumpet claims they hadn’t checked with other scholars.It obviously never occurred to them that goat skins were recycled and used more than once for manuscripts. I have to agree with the Saudi’s, it all looks like a publicity stunt. But with a high muslim population in Birminghan it will probably be good for enrollments.

  19. harbidoll says

    Jul 28, 2015 at 8:11 am

    We know Koran so brilliant others have copied it, – Mafia, Hitler- so Mohammad didn’t write/dictate it. Satan or some other fallen angle did.

  20. Lioness says

    Jul 28, 2015 at 11:10 am

    It’s a little too convenient that suddenly this Quran was “discovered”. Something about this story doesn’t smell right. This might just be a clever fake, like the Hitler diaries, but no one will challenge this because it will be perceived as Islamophobic. The media is in absolute glee over this “discovery”, but I would like to see the material tested by a reputable scholar before it’s declared a miracle find.

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