“It is good because everyone should understand how to behave towards the Muslim community,” said Muhammad Fuad, head of the local branch of the Islamic Community Forum. The principle is always the same: non-Muslims must always change their behavior to conform to Muslim sensibilities. The West is rapidly learning that. These Christians in Indonesia should have known it already.
“Yogyakarta: Islamists expel thousands of Christians from a scout camp because it is Ramadan,” by Mathias Hariyadi, Asia News, July 2, 2015 (thanks to C. Cantoni):
Jakarta (AsiaNews) – A group of Indonesian Islamic extremists attacked and disrupted a scout camp organised by a Protestant group in Yogyakarta, central Java. The gathering had brought together thousands of young people.
According to the extremists, the Protestant group was not authorised to organise any public activity, especially, they claimed, since Ramadan had begun on 18 June, and public activities that violate the sacred nature of the holy month are not allowed.
Titled ‘Pathfinder Club Camporee’, the meeting was set to take place from 1 to 5 July, at a location in Sleman Regency, just north of Yogyakarta.
However yesterday, on the second day of the event, local Muslim extremists stormed the site bringing everything to a halt. As a result of the Islamist raid, thousands of participants from around the country were forced to leave the area.
A camping manager, named Bambang, said that “organisers said they had official permission [to hold the event], but suddenly scores of radical Muslims arrived ordering everyone to clear off.”
Thousands of Protestant kids from various organisations and churches in the country had registered for the event.
Local police claimed that organisers lacked the necessary permit to hold such an event.
Commenting on the expulsion of Christians, Muhammad Fuad, head of the local branch of the Islamic Community Forum (Forum Umat Islam, or FUI) said he was happy that the gathering was shut down.
“It is good because everyone should understand how to behave towards the Muslim community,” the Islamic leader said.
We are in the holy month of Ramadan, he noted, and people “must ask permission” before promoting “such great events.”…
In addition, legal loopholes have been used to prevent Christians from building their places of worship, like the case involving the Yasmin Church in West Java….
Brian says
I hope sooner rather than later, all Muslims in Europe, USA, Australia/New Zealand/Canada and Russia will be expelled to Saudi Arabia.
Brian says
Of course the above depends on non-Muslims still controlling those Western countries…with mass immigration and so-called “refugees”, that is somewhat debatable…May I ask if anyone has heard of Dr. Zuhdi Jasser? What do people think his agenda is? ie, is he as true Islam reformer or is he just another using taqyyia in a more sophisticated way?
gerard says
From what I know of Dr. Zuhdi Jasser he seems to be thoroughly genuine. The problem is he has about 3 followers or is it 4?
But seriously, he has no significant following and given the texts and history of Islam any peaceful Islam would not be Islam. He’s on a road to nowhere IMO. I really don’t understand how an intelligent and educated man like Jasser can remain Muslim!
Brian says
Yes, I agree…he definitely seems genuine and comes across as a non-apologist for Islam….YET, the fact that is he still a Muslim gives me a reason to pause…The ONLY two scenarios are that he is using taqyyia to try to pretend he and most Muslims are disgusted by islamic terror(even though it IS pure Islam) OR he is already a convert from Islam already and he HAD to hide that fact in order to expose Islam.
Ian_A_S says
Well, its like the Mafia isn’t it? The only way you leave the family is in a box. No matter how much he has realized the wickedness of Islam, he is a dead man walking if he leaves.
voegelinian says
Why do you have to ask if Zuhdi Jasser is moderate? There is no such thing as a moderate Muslim. Put all the ingredients together, and they don’t add up:
1. Jasser is intelligent
2. Jasser is learned in Islam (i.e., he knows about Islam)
3. Jasser claims Islam is good and Muhammad is good — it has only been “hijacked” by “extremists”.
Those three don’t add up, unless something deeply fishy is afoot. In addition, his behavior when confronted by the brave apostate Wafa Sultan was revealing — to those with informed discernment, that is.
Unfortunately, there are many gullible dupes even in the Counter-Jihad who swoon like a schoolgirl when Better Cops like Jasser whisper sweet taqiyya in their ears.
Angemon says
Brian posted:
“May I ask if anyone has heard of Dr. Zuhdi Jasser? What do people think his agenda is? ie, is he as true Islam reformer or is he just another using taqyyia in a more sophisticated way?”
He seems to be genuinely calling for a reformation, alongside his 2 or 3 supporters (or however few they might be). The thing is, he has no doctrinal basis to stand on.
Dave says
The first religious influences to reach the Indonesian Archipelago were those of Hinduism and Buddhism which were introduced from India by the 5th century AD. The main area of impact was in Java and Sumatra, where the two religions fused to form the composite Hindu-Buddhist religion. so islam has no rights?
JamesonRocks says
“However yesterday, on the second day of the event, local Muslim extremists stormed the site bringing everything to a halt. As a result of the Islamist raid, thousands of participants from around the country were forced to leave the area.”
These moozies must actually be moderates since they didn’t behead, stone or throw anyone off of a roof.
mortimer says
“It is good because everyone should understand how to behave towards the Muslim community,” the Islamic leader said.
Translation: Christians should know their place.
Bernard Gudgeon says
…Exactly my thoughts too. They got off lucky.
CogitoErgoSum says
Those Christians were not acting like good dhimmis who should know always to ask permission of their Muslim overlords before doing anything on their own.
Richard C Brown says
What happened to the thousands of expelled Kids .There must have been chaos. Did the religion of peace expel them or a radical group do it??
jayell says
“It is good because everyone should understand how to behave towards the Muslim community,” said Muhammad Fuad, head of the local branch of the Islamic Community Forum….” Just like it was good that everyone learned how behave towards the Nazis in Germany, Denmark, France, The Netherlands, Norway, Hungary, Austria, Czechoslovakia…….and everyone in Europe and Scandinavia looks like re-learning it again.
jayell says
“The Islamic Community Forum”. Doesn’t that just sound so RESPONSIBLE, CULTURED and RESPECTABLE? Just like the UK Muslim ‘PARLIAMENT’ (er, to which no one is actually elected?). So DEMOCRATIC, noble, righteous and Upstanding! And, of course, all a pathetic, pretentious sham!
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
I don’t know how these Moslem activists in Indonesia can justify these actions. After all, Prez Barack Hussein was born there, and he has the forged birth certificate from Hawaii to prove it. It’s all well and good to talk about how he is an apostate by being a fake Christian and all, and that he’s a secular humanist atheist in reality, but for God’s sake some respect for the man who has done so much for the Cause of the Holy Islam. Leave the Christians over there alone until the Man From Jakarta and left office with his legacy secured, please. If you keep it up our president may not be so generous to you during his last 18 mos in office.
***
Any report on the reaction to this scout camp episode from Rev. Jeremiah Wright?
Daphne Donges says
He was not born in Indonesia, according to his grandmother he was born in Kenya. His father died and his mother married an Indonesian. Barry took his name as Soetoro. Under which he got to Harvard after spending his years first Indonesia at school then being dumped with his communist grandparents. He wen t to Private School in Hawaii.
Whatever he is it is not Christian. He shows this by his actions. Everything for Muslims, nothing at all for Christians and the Bible which he defames at every opportunity
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
He was not born in Indonesia, according to his grandmother he was born in Kenya.
Of course you may be right about this, according to video of the statements made by grandma and Michelle in Kenya. What we do know for sure is that his birth certificate is a forgery. It is remarkable that he got through two presidential campaigns with his file at Columbia University sealed, and it’s still sealed. The man has secrets, significant facts about himself to hide.
***
The good news is that we can rely on the robust body of investigative reporting that has been done about Barack Hussein’s personal background. What we’ve learned so far is that it’s racist and xenophobic to challenge his citizenship, even though he stated in the past that he was born in a foreign land. If you make such a racist and xenophobic charge you are a birther much as one can be a swift boater and a climate denier, the moral and factual equivalent of an ahistorical nutcase who sez that the extermination of six million Jews never happened, that it’s a conspiracy theory fraud.
Edward says
“The man has secrets, significant facts about himself to hide.”
Yeah, I’m still wondering what are the POTUS head scars for, that run down near his top of his head through back of his right ear lobe continuing down to his neck? If he had a head trauma that explains it all….brain aberration! Well, I’m glad he is doing well, Hummmm!
Rebecca says
Wow, I never noticed the head scars.
Edward says
Rebecca says July 5, 2015 at 3:32 pm
Wow, I never noticed the head scars.
Try a Google Images search. > Key words : Obama’s head and neck scars.
They have been posted publicly since 2009 on Google!
Rebecca says
Thanks.
Champ says
Daphne wrote:
Whatever he is it is not Christian. He shows this by his actions. Everything for Muslims, nothing at all for Christians and the Bible which he defames at every opportunity
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So true, Daphne!
No way is obama a Christian, and I don’t care *what* he says. Yes — his “actions” give him away every time he defames the Bible.
This is so upsetting since I loooove the word of God!!! ..each and every precious word.
RG says
“such great events.”…
Gotta hand it to this dumbass, Muhammad Fuad, he got one thing right…he’s right about calling the Christian event a “GREAT EVENT”! Must be some kind of a Freudian slip or something! As for “asking for permission”–everybody knows that no g-damned muzzie would honor such an agreement anyway!!! Filthy g-damned savages!!!!!
Angemon says
If it wasn’t ramadan, they’d make up another excuse.
EYESOPEN says
Exactly. “They didn’t have a ‘permit’.” Whether or not they paid extortion fees for a so-called “permit”, they would STILL have been accosted.
Jay Boo says
Carpet Kissing Frenzy time again
Ramadan is a big pig bath splash of exhibitionism for Muslims followed by their daily slobbering at the thought of publicly flogging themselves with piety.
Westman says
“It is good because everyone should understand how to behave towards the Muslim community,” the Islamic leader said.
Yes, when the Muslim gluteus maximus approaches one should pucker up for maximus osculation.
Carlos Thomas says
Muslims do whatever they want to do during Christian Holy Week and no one disturb them, so Christiansshouls lave muslim lands and go where Christians are a majority. Muslims for muslimsin their own place; Muslims use all the west’s inventions and then try to hurt them, what kind of religion is that?
rolf wittwer says
Since some times the revival of the 3. Reich is in full swing.
It’s frightening!
jewdog says
Maybe we could interest the Dutch in returning to Java. End colonialism, begin savagery.
shams78 says
The Dutch savage colonialists oppressed and murdered non-Muslims in Indonesia during the rule.
The Dutch invaded the Hindu Balinese and used violent conquest to take them over. The Hindu Balinese fought fiercely against the Dutch invasion. The Hindu Balinese Rajahs organized a mass suicide called Puputan during the final defeat at the hands of the Dutch.
The Dutch forced the Hindu Osing people of Java to convert to Islam for political purposes.
The Dutch massacred and exterminated the men of the Banda islands in the 1600s. The Banda islanders were non-Muslims.
The Dutch were also fought by non-Muslim, animist Papuan tribals who are also fighting against Indonesian rule today. Michael Rockefeller is speculated to have been killed by Papuans in revenge for murders of Papuans at the hands of the Dutch authorities. Because Rockefeller was a white man like the Dutch, the Papuan tribals thought he was a Dutch.
The Dutch savages implemented the first racist anti-Chinese laws in Indonesia and started the biggest massacre in Batavia in 1740 of Chinese.
In revenge, the Chinese and Javanese rose up in revolt in the 1741 Java war and executed Dutch colonialists savages for their crimes. The Dutch however were rescued by their Madurese lackeys and slaves.
Rest assured, the non-Muslims of Indonesia hate Dutch colonialist imperialist savages.
Rebecca says
I hate to mean or anything, but didn’t the Dutch run into cannibal savages over there? It’s kind of hard to nice in the face of savages of any kind. The Muslims haven’t been the only butchers around.
shams78 says
The Dutch savages practiced slavery, mass murder and rape and their descendants were the ones who established apartheid in South Africa, so don’t preach to us about savagery.
Rebecca says
I’m positive your problem with the “Dutch savages” has to do with them being Christians. There is no other reason to say anything about the Dutch in this post. Plus, I’m pretty sure you are lying. There is a long history of persecution of Christians in the far east.
shams78 says
In the Lamey Island massacre on Taiwan the Dutch smoked hundreds of women and children alive and watched as they suffocated to death.
Rebecca says
You want to cite that?
shams78 says
I’m positive the only reason that you are moaning about this right now is because you are of Dutch descent.
The Formosan Encounter: Notes on Formosa’s Aboriginal Society : a Selection of Documents from Dutch Archival Sources, Volume 2
How Taiwan Became Chinese: Dutch, Spanish, and Han Colonization in the Seventeenth Century
The Dutch were raping Aboriginal women on Taiwan.
The Dutch massacred the Banda islanders in Indonesia because they refused to provide the Dutch with a spicy monopoly. In fact the Banda islanders were one of the few people in their area who did not become Muslim. The Dutch slaughtered most of their men and sold the rest into slavery.
Lots of western women flock to Bali to make out with and marry the local beach boys, I didn’t know they liked hanging out with “cannibal savages”.
Rebecca says
No, I’m not of Dutch descent. I am a W.A.S.P. and am really sick and tired of hearing about how horrible white people are. Karl Marx started the anti-Christian bit in order to conquer Modern Civilization which was started by particular tribes of white Europeans, including the Dutch. The Marxists have wanted to get rid of Christianity from the beginning and have financed many of the uprisings in Third World countries. Including Indonesia, I believe. So, on this anti-jihadi website you are knocking Christians of Dutch descent because?
voegelinian says
Yes Rebecca; the West has been ingrained with a morbidly excessive culture of self-criticism for so many decades now, feeling ashamed and guilty for its “shameful chapters” of Colonialism, when more often than not our forbears made life better for the hellholes of what is now called the Third World, encountering either the sophisticated savagery of Islam, or the more retrograde savagery of non-Muslim cultures.
Rebecca says
Thank you. I was beginning to think in 1740 or thereabouts, the Dutch hatched a plan to turn loose the Muslims and later on the Communists on the Christians in Indonesia, including themselves, along with all the poor pagans, who never had an unkind word for anyone, even their fellow pagans.
shams78 says
@voegelinian
The Arabs improved the hellholes that were previously the Iberian peninsula and Sicily during their rule, and the Ottomans improved the Balkan hellhole as well.
Angemon says
shams78 posted:
“@voegelinian
The Arabs improved the hellholes that were previously the Iberian peninsula and Sicily during their rule”
Right, they “improved” it so much that the natives didn’t stop fighting until they kicked the muslims out (FIY, most of the muslims in the Iberian Peninsula were not arabs). Are you going to try to argue that the Sicilians and Spaniards were too stupid to see how their lives were “improved” under muslim rule?
I think you’d stand to win more if you were to actually learn about European History instead of regurgitating islamic narratives – the Romans, who ruled the Iberian Peninsula and Sicily, were building roads, monuments and aqueducts when arabs were living in the desert and drinking camel piss, centuries before islam version 1.0 was concocted.
Rebecca says
Oh, did they start the Mafia?
Rebecca says
Yes, sure they did. That’s why they got kicked out. But wait, maybe they did start the Mafia. Great point.
shams78 says
Hey Semeru, do you you think our friend here is Orang pendek, Orang utan, Orang gila, or Orang bodoh? Given his obsession with you he might be Orang homo.
shams78 says
There were also the Kongsi wars in Borneo where Chinese and Dayaks fought against Dutch invader colonialist rapists in the 19th century.
Westman says
Let’s accept the Dutch were everything you describe. That was over 250 years ago. Why, even though having incredible natural resources, and a dominant common religion, is Indonesia still poor?
voegelinian says
The historian of technology Lynn White Jr. wrote an interesting essay (I believe included in his collection entitled Machina ex Deo: Essays in the Dynamism of Western Culture)—in which he traces the history of the violin and notices what a politically correct multi-culturalist would be loath to notice: namely, that, while the rudimentary violin had been invented in the area of Sumatra in approximately the 9th century A.D., its technical development and musical uses remained in that culture relatively stagnant for centuries, and never evolved (and still haven’t evolved into the 21st century, except where they copy Western culture) until the West returned to colonize and bring the gifts of her superiority to it.
Meanwhile, after that rudimentary violin, translated through the Islamic Middle East (similarly unfit to unfold the potential of this instrument) into the hands of the Western Crusaders, was introduced into Christian Europe by the 13th century, it was relatively quickly improved and refined, and over the following three hundred more years one begins to see the signs of a progress in violin music—and music in general—astonishing in its beauty, reaching its apogee with J.S. Bach (1685-1750) and ascending impossibly higher with Beethoven and Mozart after that.).
I wonder how many even in the Counter-Jihad feel a twinge of discomfort were they to try to mouth the words: We are better than they are — not merely the Muzzies (that’s easy); but all those native indigenous cultures around the world the West colonized and tried to improve their lots in life. I suspect that residues of PC MC still lurk in their systems, arousing a vague discomfort at such a visceral affront to the multiculturalist ethos.
Rebecca says
I think you are right. After hundreds of years of contact, the western Europeans were stunned to find that the American Indians and others could not grasp the concept of the six simple machines, and were unable to use even the wheel, a prehistoric concept to the Europeans.
sinantara says
Whoever Shams is, he is correct, the Dutch colonialists where not anti particularly anti Muslim, like the Portuguese where crusaders. But they were very pragmatic, oppressing anyone standing in the way of their trading empire, creating Indonesia along the way–a fact even fervent nationalists accept, grudgingly. However, what shams should mention, if he is in history lessons anyway, that Bali was Hindu Majapahits last stand against Islam–the Osing where core of the Supit Urang kingdom, a Hindu buffer state that was brought down by Sultan Agung of Mataram, carrying on with Demak’s jihad against Majapahit. Another fact, Bali was probably saved from Demak because that sultanate send its fleet against the Portuguese besieging Malacca–where it was shot to bits. It’s successor, Islamic Mataram (to distinguish it from the earlier Hindu Mataram), started a campaign of conquest (imperialism and colonialism by people of color and Muslims is called conquest, conquest by whites is called imperialism and colonialism) including eastwards, and the Javanese and Balinese (genetically not different from Javanese, but they are the last carriers of the civlization of Majapahit) fought a bitter war of attrition in the east salient of Java that ended because Mataram surrendered to the Dutch, who in 1901 started what they called pacification of the East Indies. They conquered Bali but didn’t touch its religion, something that could not have been expected from Demak or Mataram. The Balinese left minorities in Lombok and Sumbawa, their eastern bufferzone against Islam (the Sultanate of Goa). And these minorities are largely undisturbed by Islam because they are not dhimmis. Nobody dares to disturb a Balinese village, walled, armed and dangerous. During the riots in Lombok in 2000 when all churches and houses of Christians were burned the Christians fled to these villages where they were safe. When earlier the Muslims of Sumbawa where provoked to attack the Balinese (somebody threw a pig head into a mosque) Bali started a mobilization and took over the ferries to invade Sumbawa and the government had to take quick action (if not forced they never do) not to save the Balinese communities but the Muslim mobs. Greetings, Sham, from Gusti Made Sinantara, NKRI harga mati!
shams78 says
Don’t forget, it was the Dutch who started the transmigration program moving Javanese Muslims and Madurese Muslims onto non-Muslim people’s lands in other parts of Indonesia like Papua and Borneo. It was not started by independent Indonesia. But you won’t here that from people on here who praise the Dutch for “stopping” Islam, ROFL.
Alot of people on this website are apologists for colonial rule……and in cases like India they even fabricated a myth which turns reality on its head, that the colonialists allegedly “saved” India from Islam. It was often the opposite.
They forget that the Mughal’s power already collapsed before the British Raj and that the Hindu Maratha Empire and seized control of much of the subcontinent. The Mughals were reduced to only holding the Red Fort in Delhi. The Hindu Marathas only viewed Indian Muslims and Central Asian Muslims as their enemy. They did not hold the same view of Arabs.
The Hindu Marathas signed alliances with Arabs and hired Hadrami Arab Muslim mercenaries to fight in their armies against the British.
While Marathas disemboweled Indian Muslims they used Arab Muslims to fight against the British and they raided the Portuguese colonialists and forced them to pay tribute.
The British attacked the Maratha Empire and fought three wars against it to bring it down and conquer central India.
In what is now modern day Pakistan, the Sikh Empire conquered the Punjabi Muslims and the Pashtun Muslims of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. The Sikhs for the first time brought those Muslims under non-Muslim rule. Sikhs essentially ruled Pakistan.
Then the British came and attacked the Sikh Empire and ended their rule, paving the way for modern day Pakistan.
Under British rule, Bengali Muslims moved into the territories of Buddhist and Hindus in Assam, Chittagong Hill tracts, and Arakan state.
voegelinian says
Nonsense. You’re approaching the data with a prejudice against the West (whether your own West, or if you’re non-Western, the big bad West who is the culprit behind all the evil of the cosmos), assuming the worst about Western Colonialism and assuming the indigenes were all perfect innocent angels whose precious cultural ecosystems the evil white man despoiled.
Rebecca says
Sounds like you have a problem with mosquito infested swamps and other such things.
Champ says
‘shams’, and his ilk, need an education on the subject of America and stat!! …so I recommend seeing the movie entitled, “America”, by Dinesh D’Souza:
http://www.dineshdsouza.com/movies/america/
It’s brilliant and spot on!
Ian_A_S says
The Dutch have been colonised on their own ground by Islam. They are on the edge of cultural extinction. Allah akbah, the moslems have managed to surpass the third Reich with their strategy of stealth Jihad. Not quite there yet, the final stage will be to kill and enslave the remaining Dutch. Anyhow, the Dutch won’t be coming to anyone’s rescue in their old East Indies.
Rebecca says
More’s the pity.
Infidel from Down Under says
And Australia has these barbarians living on our doorstep,over 100 million of them.One Indonesian province (Aceh) is already under full Sharia Law while at least two other provinces are heading that way, while Islamic extremism and anti Western sentiment continues to grow at a alarming rate throughout the entire country.
Its not inconceivable we are seeing the birth of another Iran here, and we know only too well from past experiences and current events things can get very ugly ,very quickly in countries where Islam dominates
shams78 says
Indonesians were already there.
Its European colonialist settlers who moved to Australia, killed the Aboriginals and moved into Indonesia’s doorstep.
kay says
Re “Indonesians were already there.”
I got news for you: The Hindus and the Buddhists were very active in Southeast Asia One Thousand Years ago. The culture of Bali is Hindu / animist.
Central Java / Indonesia holds the greatest Buddhist monument in the world,at Borobudur.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borobudur
It is a classical Buddhist mandala [ sacred circle ] design begun in the 8th century CE and carries classical Buddhist scripture scene freizes. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandala and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Borobudur_Mandala_ka.svg and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lalitavistara_S%C5%ABtra#The_Borobodur_reliefs
The Old Javanese language was 25% Sanskrit and that culture was strongly influenced by Mahayana Buddhism and tantric Buddhism. See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Javanese
From the Borobudur Reliefs article:
“The clearly Sanskrit sounding Mantranaya is evident in Old Javanese tantric [ Buddhist ] literature, particularly as documented in the oldest esoteric Buddhist tantric text in Old Javanese, the Sang Kyang Kamahayanan Mantranaya.”
Indonesian Buddhism predates Indonesian Islam by five centuries. See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spread_of_Islam_in_Indonesia
BTW, the Hindu Indians also were “already there” before Christianity or Islam, many centuries before the bloody centuries of Islamic jihad caused the deaths of tens of millions in South Asia.
Islam is NOT indigenous to Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh etc. Islam was spread mainly by savage Islamic war across South Asia.
See
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Quotations_on_Islam_from_Notable_Non-Muslims
From which
William James Durant (1885 – 1981) was a prolific American writer, historian, and philosopher. The Story of Philosophy, written in 1926, has been described as a groundbreaking work that helped to popularize philosophy.
“The Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex of order and freedom, culture and peace, can at any moment be overthrown by barbarians invading from without or multiplying within.”
See also
Why We Are Afraid, A 1400 Year Secret, by Dr Bill Warner
shams78 says
I hope you get an education and learn the difference between people and religions, which are not people.
Indonesians are descendants of native Hindu-Buddhists and animists.
White Australians are descendants of Europeans who came from the other side of the earth.
kay says
Re Shams: “I hope you get an education and learn the difference between people and religions…”
I am a scholar, specifically a religious scholar. And I referenced Will Durant. There is no one in Riyadh Saudi Arabia nor in Al-Azhar University Cairo who has even half my education in religion or in religious history, nor do they teach what I teach over at Harvard Divinity School ( Master’s Program ). Faculty at Al-Azhar and Harvard Divinity are all muggles, and Al-Azhar are all yogically illiterate.
You Shams have failed to contest ANYTHING I said, and I gave REAL references on Indonesian medieval history and culture. By academic rules I win here.
For you ( or basically anyone ) to BEGIN to learn the subject matter, the key reference is Dr Bostom. Here is the citation:
http://www.amazon.com/Legacy-Jihad-Andrew-Bostom-M-D/dp/1591026024/
The Legacy of Jihad Paperback – March 1, 2008
by Andrew G. Bostom M.D. (Editor), Ibn Warraq (Foreword)
Paperback: 759 pages
Publisher: Prometheus Books (July 10, 2008)
ISBN-10: 1591026024
“Jihad…emphasizing violent raiding, war, and subjection of other people has been a major activity of Muslims since the 620’s and continues today…As for a Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Zoroastrians, and any other ‘non-believers’ it has been an unending source of forced conversion, murder, rape, genocide, and slavery.”
The western theologian ( and Islam fangirl ) Dr. Karen Armstrong is historically illiterate, and a bad joke. The key source ( to use or challenge ) is Dr. Bostom, cited here. If Harvard Divinity doesn’t use Dr. Bostom they are missing the boat. Further, the Muslim “story” on the death of Jesus the Nazarene is a bad joke. It is complete nonsense and it has no support. So Muslim theology fails badly on a CRUCIAL point. Muslim “theology” is a JOKE! Muslim theology and Sharia DIRECTLY contradict what Jesus the Nazarene taught. Clearly the Muslims CANNOT represent the tradition of Jesus.
And Sharia Law, the “law” of slavery and jihad and rejection of all human rights, is 100% FASCIST. All human rights and all civilization depend on BREAKING Sharia Law.
Here’s some of my stuff, not that you’ll get any of it. It includes materail from Princeton and Stanford universities, and gives key source materials from Thrangu Rinpoche, one of the greatest Buddhist scholars on the planet. No one at Al-Azhar comes up to his ankles.
http://newyork.tribe.net/listing/Buddhist-Resources-Holy-Day-of-Buddhas-Descent-from-Heaven/new-york-ny/f21ea5b7-9664-493b-90ed-1238b77b62cf
Finally I give references to Bill Warner PhD, Mark Durie and Bat Ye’or here:
http://newyork.tribe.net/listing/Pamela-Geller-Truth-Is-The-New-Hate-Speech-Welcome-To-The-War-Freedom-of-Speech-vs-Islam/new-york-ny/93c29103-cb2f-42c1-a874-a46afd6eae45
I am professional class, while Islamic theology is all bizarre flaky confused psychopathic nonsense. And I get the word out that there are only three choices possible: Islam, Dhimmitude, and Human Rights. This is total civilizational warfare, and I am in this fight, and there can be only one winner. Clear?
Ian_A_S says
Kay, you two Shams are both correct – and both have excellently contributed learned content here. You should not be at each other’s throats. The people of the Indonesian archipelago are indigenous inhabitants. Prior to Hindu influence they were Austronesian language speakers, who worshipped their ancestors. Their history has been complex, with both of you picking up some of the story.
One factor that made Islam in Indonesia relatively mild compared to the Middle East version was syncretism with earlier ancestrally based religious practices. But in more recent times, Wahhabists from the Arab countries have made concerted efforts to ‘purify’ Indonesian Islam, and we are now seeing the fruits of that as Salafist supremacist language comes into the older play of ethnic rivalries in Indonesia.
And, for those who cannot believe what the Dutch did, their tactics of using breathtaking levels of atrocity to establish colonial rule are a matter of historical record.
Rebecca says
You are on both sides of this I see. Where are the historical records? And what do they have to do with what is going on there today?
voegelinian says
” Ian_A_S” is practicing the Tu Quoque fallacy (not to mention that the Western colonialists were infinitely more benign than the Mohammedan marauders).
Ian_A_S says
Tu quoque — the “you too!” fallacy — Do you mean that since the Dutch were bastards in Indonesia, I claim that the muslims ought not be be judged either? That’s not the “you too” fallacy. The “you too” fallacy is if I said to you “you shouldn’t steal library books”, and you say “but you do” – you claim hypocrisy in order to divert the argument from the original proposition, which probably should have been phrased “library books must not be stolen”. In history, it is often the case that multiple parties act dishonourably. There is no fallacy in pointing that out accurately.
Rebecca says
Muslims don’t believe in right and wrong, but they get messages from their god and act upon them. At least that is what I’ve read.
Ian_A_S says
Let me edit the second sentence of my comment, it was not phrased clearly, so:
Tu quoque — the “you too!” fallacy — Do you mean that since the Dutch were bastards in Indonesia, I claim that the muslims ought not be judged either? Pointing out the faults of multiple parties in a situation is not in itself the “you too” fallacy. The “you too” fallacy is if I said to you “you shouldn’t steal library books”, and you say “but you do” – you claim hypocrisy in order to divert the argument from the original proposition, which probably should have been phrased “library books must not be stolen”. In history, it is often the case that multiple parties act dishonourably. There is no fallacy in pointing that out accurately.
shams78 says
The Dutch force converted Hindu Osing people to Islam and the British favored Indian Muslims over Hindus and our slippery friend voegelinian is pretending as though “Western colonialists were infinitely more benign than the Mohammedan marauders”.
It was Britain who destroyed the Sikh Empire which was conquering Muslims in Pakistan.
Rebecca says
You’re really great at Marxist revisionist history.
shams78 says
The British are also the reason there are Bengali Muslims living in Hindu and Buddhist areas in Assam, the Chittagong Hill Tracts, and Arakan, after the British decided to move them in to consolidate their rule after attacking the Buddhists.
Don’t worry voegelinian will tell you the colonialists were trying to protect them from the Bengalis, by moving them right next door.
shams78 says
And don’t forget all the Javanese and Madurese Muslims the Dutch decided to move and dump on other people’s lands in Indonesia.
Rebecca says
You know, there’s such a thing as pathological lying.
voegelinian says
The tu quoque fallacy begins when the historical complications are adduced in order to render the end result that “everybody did bad things” such that we cannot render a clear verdict of Western superiority on every level — ethical, geopolitical, scientific, etc. (factoring in that the West has never been perfect) — vis-à-vis the Mohammedan Imperialists. If the person bringing up the imperfections of the Dutch is not doing that, the question becomes, why is he bringing that up in the context of a forum about the problem of Islam in the 21st century?
Ian_A_S says
I get what you are saying, Voe. Too often, arguments against Islam are derailed when someone says, “oh yes, but the West too …”. We know that the point of saying that is to deflect condemnation of the situation in hand, to make the denouncer of Islam feel inadequate and shrug “gee, I feel there is something wrong with what is going on now, but I guess I should just shut up”. It is a highly effective ruse, and anti-Islam activists rightly resent it.
However, that is quite a way off my interest in Indonesian history. With a such a large country such as Indonesia, it pays (for those of us who live next door in Australia) to have a clear understanding of its complexities. Nobody will be nuking it off the planet, so we have to live with it. Our foreign policy is based on an accurate understanding of it. If we chuck a tantrum and burn all the history books about Indonesia, it’s not them who will suffer – we Australians will. Unpleasant as the whole business is at times, they will be our next-door neighbours for all the millennia to come, there is no escaping that. We need to be smart, not stupid, in conducting our relationship. That is why I am interested in a nuanced understanding of Indonesia’s history, not some sappy abstract “well the West did bad things too, so you can’t really blame moslems”. That’s not where I come from at all. At all.
Ian_A_S says
Oh, for an edit button. The first part of my second-last sentence in my post above needs rephrasing for clarity:
“I am not spouting some sappy abstract “well the West did bad things too, so you can’t really blame moslems”.” So my post would read:
I get what you are saying, Voe. Too often, arguments against Islam are derailed when someone says, “oh yes, but the West too …”. We know that the point of saying that is to deflect condemnation of the situation in hand, to make the denouncer of Islam feel inadequate and shrug “gee, I feel there is something wrong with Islam, but I guess I should just shut up”. It is a highly effective ruse, and anti-Islam activists rightly resent it.
However, that is quite a way off my interest in Indonesian history. With a such a large country such as Indonesia, it pays (for those of us who live next door in Australia) to have a clear understanding of its complexities. Nobody will be nuking it off the planet, so we have to live with it. Our foreign policy is based on an accurate understanding of it. If we chuck a tantrum and burn all the history books about Indonesia, it’s not them who will suffer – we Australians will. Unpleasant as the whole business is at times, they will be our next-door neighbours for all the millennia to come, there is no escaping that. We need to be smart, not stupid, in conducting our relationship. That is why I am interested in a nuanced understanding of Indonesia’s history; I am not spouting some sappy abstract “well the West did bad things too, so you can’t really blame moslems”. That’s not where I come from at all. At all.
somehistory says
From the satan worshipper: “public activities that violate the sacred nature of the holy month are not allowed.”
The Christians were not beheading, burning alive, crucifying, raping, stealing, exploding, kidnapping, anyone, so their *activities*\ violated the unholy nature of the unholy month*. They were not blowing up buildings, destroying grave monuments, rioting in the streets, running over others with their cars, or other such *ramadan* unholy actions, so they had to be stopped.
Don’t want anyone comparing them to worshippers of satan and seeing the peaceful, loving nature of the Christians.
Celtic says
Typical….. Islam: Respect us, but we won’t respect you.
Champ says
Pious muslim alert!
kay says
This is fascist oppression. Thousands of Protestant CHILDREN with no political agenda were attacked by a NON-GOVERNMENTAL fascist Islamist group of thugs. These Islamist thugs are essentially the same as Nazi Brownshirts. The Nazi Brownshirts were a large paramilitary organization who had the motto “All opposition must be stamped into the ground”. ( See Wikipedia entry. )
Here we see in effect “Islamist Brownshirts”. They fight noncombatants on the ground to render them socially ineffective.
I am not a Christian. But I fear greatly for the Christians who live near major Muslim populations or in Muslim controlled lands. A major reason is that western Christians, Protestant or Catholic, do NOT come to their aid and do NOT protest. If I were with the Billy Graham crowd I would be furious and I would be making a lot of noise. The evangelicals ( huge in the US ) should be Up In Arms at this point.
Yes, it is a big problem that these Islamists are behaving exactly like Brownshirts. But the major overall problem is that the Christians in North American and Europe are CLEARLY NOT responding as they must to support the “Body of Christ.”
I am pretty certain that many or most evangelicals and Christians in the West are basically invertebrates when it comes to Islam. They worked long and hard against abortion and against the homosexual community, but they are all missing the big fight, the fight for the future of civilization and basic human rights.
If I were a Christian, I would be completely disgusted with the nonchalance of the political Christians or “progressive” Christians to face this clear and present danger.
Many of the Christians in the West are like the Leftists: they are “useful idiots”. The Islamists in this case claimed to be DEFENDING their holy days against a bunch of kids who weren’t even THINKING about Ramadan. So there was no need to defend Ramadan against these kids. They were minding their own business.
Western Christians, Stop Being Stupid! WAKE UP. Your religious community is getting crushed by incidents such as these and by continuous unlawful pressure.which demands your submission to an arbitrary fascist religious-political program. These thousands of kids will get the message that they cannot come together for a group event, and they will learn that there is no one to help them.get basic human rights such as freedom of assembly. They are second class citizens in their own country! And I am pissed.
This is NOT a small or peripheral incident. This WHY we absolutely cannot and MUST NOT trust the Islamists. Their basic program is fascist and they rely GREATLY on intimidation and social warfare All Over The Map. I was really pissed off by the Charlie Hebdo attack in Paris, and that was terrifying for free speech advocates like me, but this is attack on Protestant kids is also a Very Bad Sign that Christians may foolishly ignore only at their own direct peril! You Christians cannot afford to overlook this very dangerous kind of social warfare. Or these Islamic Brownshirts will crush you. Wise Up! And grow a spine for Chrissakes.
Randy says
Amen!!!
No Fear says
Agree.
The Bull says
Western christian could ‘pipe up’ however this would probably just make the Muslims even more angry causing more persecution. The local Christians would then be thinking thanks for stirring the hornets nest, now we have to deal with it, not you guys in your ‘free’ democracy. They could go to Indonesia and protest and be ‘cannon fodder’ to raise international awareness. Who wants to do that? Yeah. I’ll leave my lounge room, T.V. and ‘freedom’ to get hit by some angry dude with a big stick. The government of Indonesia is really responsible but it is Muslim and must stand with their brothers. The government their needs to get a backbone and be just but it won’t because it is the problem.
Ian_A_S says
Agreed, anti-Islamic strategy shouldn’t succumb to the pitting of one religion against another, particularly if that will end with vulnerable communities being persecuted. And you are right, it is really the Indonesian government who should be defending their principles of ‘Pancasila’ (principles of state secularism) against religious divisiveness. But the Indonesian state seems to be ambivalent about confronting Islam.
Angel says
There are many Christian leaders speaking up and with increasing urgency (Franklin Graham, Pope Francis, the “Nestorian” bishops & the Coptic Patriarch, just to name a few). However, please understand that the mainstream news media way under-reports such protests and calls to protective action because it goes against their dogmatic narrative that Islam is a “religion of peace”. If the PC press were not complicit in the destruction of Western civilization (and traditional civilization in general), there would be no need for jihadwatch.org in the first place.
Rebecca says
Vey well said, Angel. Thank you.
kay says
Re : “There are many Christian leaders speaking up and with increasing urgency (Franklin Graham, Pope Francis, the “Nestorian” bishops & the Coptic Patriarch, just to name a few).”
This statement is partly true, partly rubbish. Here is the real story.
(1) I googled Pope Francis. He remains emphatically anti-free speech ( e.g. anti-Charlie Hebdo ) and does not see Islam / Sharia as a problem per se. Pope Francis sees jihad/ sharia as an aberration from Islam/ sharia. His explicit statements evidence Complete Cluelessness wrt Sharia and the history of jihad.
Charlie Hebdo made a continuing “condemnation” of religion generally ( satire mocking the Jews, Christians, and Muslims ). They were *not* anti-Muslim per se, they were secularist. The Vatican reps sued Charlie Hebdo twenty times. But Stephane Charbonnier is the hero and martyr to freedom for many of us, and the Vatican is at best irrelevant.
Serious social debate is our best weapon, and we must jeer at those who behead others.
On a scale of 2, I give these points to Pope Francis:
NEGATIVE ONE for condemning Charlie Hebdo rather than supporting the martyrs, and
NEGATIVE ONE for not condemning Sharia and jihad.
On a scale of 2, Pope Francis CLEARLY rates a MINUS 2.
(2) It turns out that Franklin Graham is actively stating his anti-Islamic perspective. See
http://cnsnews.com/blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-franklin-graham-islam-religion-war
Reverend Franklin Graham said that Islam has not changed in 1,500 years and has “not been hijacked by radicals,” but is “a religion of war.”
Basically the Copts and Near Eastern Christians are getting wiped out and the major global Christian group that could and should support them, the Pope and his bishops, do not. This is the worst Vatican mistake since Pope Pius worked closely with the Nazis.
I give Pope Francis the same Double Thumbs Down I give Pope Pius. He’s not with the good guys at all.
I am only one small guy on a very big planet, but there are days I do more than the entire Catholic Church for free speech, civilization, and counter-jihad. I do that work on three continents. Pope Francis could easily do a thousand times more, but he’s pre-emptively capitulating and he is for all intents a true collaborationist. Like the Vichy French he is willing to accept a foreign totalitarian order.
I found the following. It is directly relevant here. I will share it out. Please help share this out.
‘Rise of Radical Islam’ – Sean Hannity Special – [COMPLETE] Published on Jan 12, 2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=409&v=N-inrGn6vTs
Sean Hannity hosts this hour long special devoted to the Rise of Radical Islam. Special guests include David Webb, Brigitte Gabriel, Ryan Mauro, Lisa Daftari, Pamela Geller, and Zainab Kahn.
citycat says
As if the holy month came with evolution.
IT is Ramadam, here comes Ramadam, no, here comes the stalking Islam.
gerard says
“the sacred nature of the holy month”
typo correction:
the demonic nature of the unholy month.
So, Muslims of Indonesia, nothing sacred was violated and you can go back to beating your wives.
The Bull says
This is what happens in Muslim majority countries. Look out France. You are next.
No Fear says
“It is good because everyone should understand how to behave towards the Muslim community,” said Muhammad Fuad.
I know EXACTLY how to behave towards the Muslim community. It was taught to me by the Prophet Mohammed who , as we know, is an EXCELLENT example for man. Mohammed taught me that “muslims are the best of people” and that in the sight of Allah I am the “vilest of animals”. Mohammed despised anyone who did NOT obey him.
I reflect Mohammed’s attitude back onto the “Muslim community”. I despise them and their religion and their stinking pig “prophet”. They are a pox on humanity. And if you think that is “discriminatory” against muslims then read the damn Quran and the Hadith and you will find out how Islam views non-believers such as me and my family.
duh_swami says
I can see where that would upset the pious. There was a whole lot of shirk going on in that camp, that had to be stopped.
Thousands of shirkers all shirking at the same time is way more than Allah can tolerate, so action had to be taken. Those shirkers were lucky that it was some ‘moderate’ radical Mahoundians that chased them off. The radical, radicals would have opened fire…
Anthony says
I believe that the inserted picture is not related to the incident, the picture shown is another group ( FPI, Front Pembela Islam or Islam Defense Front ) demonstrated in Jakarta, West Java, awhile ago while the incident took place in central Java. I’m a Christian Indonesian, and in my view we have a peaceful loving Moslem here because of the fact that Islam brought here by Arab merchant and Islam can accommodate local culture and wisdom, so Islam spread not by the sword. But the petrodollars started to infiltrate the religious school and brought with it the “strict form of Islam”, as demonstrated in the incident. The danger part is that when the Moslem adhere to the Koran, literally, which is how those radicals see it.
sinantara says
@Anthony, Islam was not brought to Indonesia by the sword but surely spread by the sword. Demak attacked Pajajaran and Majapahit, Sultan Agung of Mataram brought Islam and the sword to Supit Urang. Mandailing was Islamized by Minang troops aided by Ottoman officers as ‘military contractors’ under leadership of the renegade Tuanku Rao (the Ottomans had an ambassador in Aceh). The Bugis tried to convert the Toraja by force who under leaderhsip of Pontiku fought back so viciously that the Dutch observers who were with the Bugis decided that the Toraja could not be pacified by force so they send in the missionaries, ever practical. But much later Darul islam rebel Kahar Muzakar went on a jihad in the same area and that is why there are so few traditional Toraja houses left. You can not make a simple statement like ‘Islam spread peacefully in Indonesia, because the conquest of Indonesia by Islam and after that by the Dutch was not a single event, it was piecemeal and different for each area, because Indonesia didn’t exist until after 45 and at the turn of the century the Dutch where still at what they called pacifying. The Bali and Lombok wars lasted until 1905. Yes, Sham is right, the Dutch favored Islam but only where it was useful like aiding the east Sasak againt the Balinese. In Aceh and West Sumatra they were allied with the traditional rulers (Datu in Minangkabau, Teuku in Aceh) against they jihad party. It was divide et impera. But history is history and one can not compare the morality of different ages. However, in the here and now, quo vadis Islam Nusantara? Islam can be reformed because Muslims are people, and people are capable of anything, the highest good, the deepest evil, they’re wise and idiots. And the truth? Mostly grows out of the barrel of guns. The Muta’zilla lost out against the Asya’riah because of politics. The Credo pushed through by Justinianus (or was it Constantin, correct me where I am wrong) at Nicea because of (his) political considerations. And the borders between Islam and Christianity happen to be battle lines ( until the west decided to start cultural suicide…) But, there are anomalies. Why did Christianity not end with Jesus’ crucifixion? Why couldn’t the Romans who were pulling out all stops exterminate Christianity? Most JW readers say, Islam can’t be reformed because of… At the same time everybody who is against ISIS are also saying that the Islam of the Kurds is different… I say, Islam can be reformed, in many directions and the direction ultimately followed will not be decided by formal truth and text but by who will win the war. Although I am afraid that one can not win a war when denying there is a war going on. Yet one can also not predict history, which is a totally chaotic system. What ISIS has started may even be the total demise of what it stands for…
shams78 says
In Aceh and west Sumatra the traditional Acehnese and Minangkabau leaders were Muslims anyway.
It was after the Wahhabi inspired Padris came back from Mecca and attacked the traditional leaders, than the Muslim Minangkabau traditional leaders invited the Dutch in to help them retake their land but they soon found out that the Dutch wouldn’t leave after they conquered it.
The Dutch scholar C S Hurgronje was friends with the Arab Grand Mufti Sayyid Uthman in Java. He arranged for Sayyid Uthman to issue fatawa supporting the Dutch against resistance in Aceh and against pederasty.
The Madurese Muslims helped save Dutch rule against Javanese Muslims and Chinese in the Java war of 1741. Otherwise Dutch colonial rule might have been crushed and ended.
Rebecca says
Ah, In the year 1741. I am sure if the Muslims had not helped the Dutch at that time, all would be peaceful in the East. The people would be still living in their grass huts, and having a great day to day existence scrounging for food and being illiterate. And living to the great old age of 22 years. None of those nasty ideas of improving life here on earth, much less in heaven would have to be thought about. Sounds like paradise or even utopia. No good or bad to think about. No thinking about doing right or wrong to your fellow man. Fantastic.
shams78 says
Indonesia was ruled by advanced empires like the Majapahit and Srivijaya Empires centuries before the Dutch, and were fully literate in writing systems like the Javanese script, Balinese script, Sundanese alphabet, Batak alphabet, and Jawi alphabet. Indonesian civilizations built huge stone monuments and buildings like Borobudur while Europe was in the dark ages.
The Dutch brought slavery, massacres, genocide, and rape to the East Indies.
Rebecca says
Sure, sure, sure. Those ancient civilizations really rocked. No barbarism there.
Ian_A_S says
Hi Anthony, I am in Australia, I hear exactly what you are saying about the petrodollars being used to radicalise Islam in Indonesia, taking it away from the more nuanced and tolerant (but not completely unproblematic) local Indonesian tradition. What a huge problem. I just wish for the day that the world switches over to renewable energy, and Saudi Arabia’s petrodollar-Wahhabi dominance shrivels and dries to dust in the desert wind. We need the days of Islam spread by the oil barrel to end for good.
Betty says
is it any wander people hate islam and some even hate the muslims. because they think every one should bow down to them and their way of life. not in this life time.JESUS give us strength. to fight this evil.
dumbledoresarmy says
A poster above, one ‘shams’, claims that the transmigration by which large numbers of mostly Muslim Javanese, etc, are moved to historically non-Muslim and even non-Malay parts of what is now called “Indonesia” – thus basically Islamising those areas and in many cases causing devastation to the locals (it is worst in West Papua where the Christian and animist Melanesian indigenes are suffering badly) is all the fault of the Dutch, who, so he says, “started” it. (One may observe, by the by, a very typical bit of Muslim blame-shifting; anything bad that we see Muslims doing is somehow the fault of evil infidels who made them do it, or taught them to do it, or something).
Well, but even if the Dutch started it (which I do not entirely believe, because al-hijra, ‘migration’ has always been one of the tactics by which Islam is spread – infiltrate, multiply, subvert or corrupt, overthrow, dominate) who is continuing it? The Dutch are long gone. Nobody told the Indonesians – 85 percent Muslim – to keep on doing it. They were under *no* compulsion to go on doing it. No-one is standing over them to make them do it, today. But they did, over and over, on the grand scale, and they are still doing it, and for the most part, it involves large numbers of Muslims moving to areas that were, historically, less Islamised.
Objectively speaking, the way in which transmigration is functioning within Indonesia “fits” very neatly with what Sam Solomon, an ex-Muslim, has described in his book “Al Hijra: The Islamic Doctrine of Immigration”.
TheBuffster says
Good post, Dumbledore!
shams78 says
Nobody told the Philippines to continue moving millions of Filipino Christians colonists from Luzon and the Visayas onto Moro Muslim and Lumad animist land on Mindanao after the Americans left. And these Filipino Christian Ilaga colonists would rape, murder, mutilate, and cannibalize Moro women and children. The Philppines has been practicing the same transmigration as Indonesia.
Australia itself is a massive transmigration project against the native Aboriginals.
The Dutch were the ones who forced the Hindu Osing people in Java to convert to Islam.
And FYI ethnic Malay Muslims in Borneo (as in the Malay ethnicity who speak Malay, not the “Malay race” which refers to all Austronesians” don’t like the transmigrants any more than animist natives, the Malay Muslims and animist Dayaks both tag teamed in Sambas to slaughter and rape thousands of Madurese Muslim migrants.
Your hypocrisy smells worse than the feces of someone suffering severe bowel movements.
chanah says
And these Filipino Christian Ilaga colonists would rape, murder, mutilate, and cannibalize Moro women and children.”
And you ofcourse can prove this without a shadow of doubt?
shams78 says
http://thepoc.net/index.php/how-to-kill-a-priest-the-norberto-manero-story/
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/nation/view/20080828-157221/Dreaded-Ilaga-is-back
Look at the references here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilaga#References
Rebecca says
Speaking of the fabulous pre-Christian Indonesian culture, there is that monkey god. I’m sure the natives used that club thing in his hands to beat their wives before the Muslims came along.
shams78 says
http://thepoc.net/index.php/how-to-kill-a-priest-the-norberto-manero-story/
look up the links in the citations here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilaga#References
shams78 says
Balinese Hindus are also participants in the transmigration program. The Indonesian government transmigrates people from any of the three most populated central islands (Java, Madura and Bali), regardless of religion, both Muslim ans Hindu.
Native victims of the transmigration program include Muslim Acehnese, Muslim Malays, animist Dayaks, animist Papuans.
The Muslim Acehnese and Muslim Malays were not fans of the Javanese and Madurese who ended up settling on their land. The Acehnese responded by insurrection and the Muslim Malays responded by helping animist Dayaks fill up graveyards with Muslim Madurese corpses.
No Fear says
Good post dd.
Ian_A_S says
Dumbledore I completely sympathise with your Anti-islamic sentiments. But the history of Indonesia is, on closer examination, not a one-dimensional story of Islamisation alone. It has a very complex history with multiple interacting factors. Underneath all of it, the Austronesian culture is vastly different from the Arab patriarchal tribalism that fuels the history of the Middle East and its conflicts with the West. Because of the vast cultural and historical difference, you can’t use the same template to understand Islam in Indonesia with that in the Middle East. The global threat is from Medinist Islam, which unfortunately is also being actively introduced to Indonesia by islamofascists, as it is across the world.
shams78 says
She is either going to accuse you of being a Muslim, or arrogantly give you a lecture on Muslim “deception” and “Taqiyya”, spam tons of book titles and authors on that subject, and claim Indonesian Islam is playing “good cop” vs “bad cop” as if she knows more on Indonesia than you, i doubt you are going to get your message through to her.
kay says
Ian, I am aware of East Asian / Pacific Islander indigenous shamanism and ancestor worship. My point is that the culture of Bali and medieval Indonesia was substantially Sanskritic. And I proved that.
As far as the Shamster, he is ridiculous and he shoots blanks. His claim that the Dutch were engaged in “cannibalism” is ludicrous and he gives no evidence. I challenge him: show us the references. Give us some numbers. How many people were eaten by Dutch in what time period? I have already given my sources, such as Dr. Bostom’s book. And I’ll give another here.
I am fully aware of EARLIER partial coexistence between indigenous practice ( ancestor worship ) and Islam. And that foreign money ( typically Saudi ) blesses poor countries’ Muslim populations who agree to Wahabi fascist doctrine and imams. Pre-Muslim social survivals are being progressively squeezed, exactly as when the Islamists shut down this large completely peaceful pre-adult Christian gathering.
All of this matters greatly because Indonesia is the world’s largest Muslim population. The Pew poll clearly shows the majority of Indonesian Muslims want to establish Sharia as the law of the land. If this happens, then the Christians have lost the war there. Christians will not have equal rights in the ( Sharia ) courts, and their religious work will be crippled. They will be second class citizens.
Of course the Indonesian Muslims have the right to vote in any government, but they CANNOT have the right to make the non-Muslims into second class citizens! Nor set up Islamic slavery, Islamic female genital mutilation, nor control the non-Islamic press and internet. Nor require the death sentence for apostates from Islam.
In short, they cannot be allowed to turn Indonesia into a fascist Islamist prison camp. We can move against Indonesia. We in the West can cut off their access to international money flows, plane flights and shipping and completely cripple them. We can cut them off and bring them into economic collapse. For being fascist.
Somebody needs to mail a copy of this book to the clueless Pope Francis:
http://www.amazon.com/Sharia-Versus-Freedom-Islamic-Totalitarianism/dp/1616146664
“Sharia Versus Freedom: The Legacy of Islamic Totalitarianism” Hardcover – September 18, 2012
by Andrew G. Bostom (Author) Hardcover: 735 pages
Publisher: Prometheus Books; ISBN-10: 1616146664
“A wealth of unambiguous evidence is marshaled, distilled, and analyzed…”
Mark Durie review:
“It is a sine qua non of good medical practice that unpleasant symptoms must first be acknowledged and brought into the light before an effective treatment plan can be developed…Bostom exposes to the light the condition known as ‘sharia,’ in all its profuse diversity. This…is a stirring antidote to the epidemic of ill-founded wishful thinking about Islam…From female genital mutilation to restrictions on freedom of speech, Bostom’s relentless forensic analyses will disturb those whose minds are drugged by…eyes-closed thinking…Bostom’s collection of essays makes a major contribution to forging a better future for us all.”
– Mark Durie, Theologian and author of The Third Choice: Islam, Dhimmitude and Freedom
shams78 says
You clearly need to brush up on your reading skills. I said Filipino Ilaga militias engaged in cannibalism, not the Dutch.
BC says
Can somebody provide a link so we can bombard Federica Mogerini with this piece of news? She seems completely unaware what is happening in countries which are officially Islamic like Pakistan, Indonesia
and Malaysia for example
Karen says
I see the Pakistani police where in on this, like they usually are when religious minorities are kicked around in that country. They like to work hand in hand with mobs that attack the helpless, and unprotected.
Karen says
My apologies, I mistook this for an article about Pakistan.
Matthieu Baudin says
The East European Communists used to shoot Scout Leaders. Perhaps it won’t be long until the totalitarian International Jihad also moves to expunge the scouting movement from its society, where international friendship is a threat to spiritual purity.
kay says
1) I stand corrected by Shams. He did not implicate the Dutch in cannibalism. Shams is still ridiculous ( see below ). But I like following up on some of the background he provides.
2) Shams is totally wrong about Chittagong ( Bangladesh ). He says “The British are also the reason there are Bengali Muslims living in…the Chittagong Hill Tracts…” This is rubbish of course. (2a ) The Brits did NOT bring the Muslims there. (2b) The Pakistani Muslims slaughtered the Hindus and Muslims of Bangladesh, maybe half a million or a million or more. Because they’re Muslims and we all know that to Muslims, Human Life Is Cheap!
2a ) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chittagong
“Sultan Fakhruddin Mubarak Shah of Sonargaon conquered Chittagong in 1340.”
2b ) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_Liberation_War
“In what became one of the largest genocides in the twentieth century,[11] the Pakistani military pursued the systematic elimination of the liberation forces of Bangladesh in urban and rural areas through army operations, air strikes and widespread human rights abuses. It perpetrated mass killings, rape and the religious cleansing of Hindus.
“Estimates for the war’s death toll range up to 3 million, with the BBC quoting independent researchers putting the figure at between 300,000-500,000.[8]”
3) How did the Arabs “improve..the hellhole[sic] [ of ] the Iberian peninsula”, as Shams claimed? Or the Balkans? Well, the Arab Muslim jihadis made a lot of oppression and slaughter. And it took 400 years to kick them out.
See “Why We Are Afraid, A 1400 Year Secret, by Dr Bill Warner” at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y
3a) The Ottoman Turk Muslims were fascist psychopaths and genocidal jihadi maniacs. They killed somewhere near 1 million unarmed Armenians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide
“The total number of people killed as a result has been estimated at between 800,000 to 1.5 million.” And the Turkish Muslims tried genocide on several peoples. There are several new books on the Armenian genocide.
So in general, what Shams calls “improvement of Spain and the Eastern Mediterranean” other people call jihad and mass slaughter and genocide.
3b) As far as Sicily and the Mediterranean generally, the Muslim pirate attacks are well documented by Dr Bill Warner’s video ( above ). These were economic warfare/ plunder and the standard Islamic enslavement like Boko Haram today. Sorry Shams, most people don’t like Boko Haram or Islamic slave raids.
4) Shams is basically all over the map here from Spain to the Phillipines. But I did learn that the secessionist Islamic Moro revolutionaries in the P.I had DIRECT ties to al-Qaeda:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moro_Islamic_Liberation_Front
“The MILF also continues to deny connections with Al-Qaeda, though it has admitted to sending around 600 volunteers to Al-Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan…” and “Forty-four members of Philippines National Police Elite Special Action Force (PNP-SAF) were killed in a clash with members of Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) and Bangsamoro Islamic Freedom Fighters (BIFF), a breakaway group from MILF, on Sunday, January 25, 2015.”
So when Shams is talking about “improvement”, he means jihad and genocide and piracy and slavery and invasion. Typical Islamic thinking. Anyone who supports the Ottoman Empire, as Shams does here, is supporting genocide and Islamic fascism. I did the reading and the background reading here, Shams. And clearly, Islam is fascist and bloodthirsty from Spain to South Asia and the Philippines.
5) Hitler said “The only religion I respect is Islam. The only prophet I admire is the Prophet Muhammad.” And “You see, it’s been our misfortune to have the wrong religion…The Mohammedan religion too would have been more compatible to us than Christianity.” Yeah, we’ve got Shams pegged, and it ‘s not a pretty sight. He’s all over the map ( two continents ! ) and what I said about the actual subject ( Islamic Brownshirt attacks in Indonesia ) still stands.
shams78 says
Dumbo, learn the difference between Chittagong city and the Chittagong Hill Tracts. The city was ruled and populated by Bengali Muslims but the Chittagong Hill Tracts were majority Chakma Buddhists and Hindus.
The Chakma Buddhists in the Chittagong Hill Tract even had their own monarch, the Raja, the last Raja was Tridev Roy.
And FYI, after the Bengali Muslims conquered Chittagong city, the Buddhist Kingdom of Mrauk U conquered Chittagong city back from the Bengalis.
The British were the ones who decided to hand over majority Buddhist and Hindu Chittagong Hill Tracts over to East Pakistan during the partition of India.
I was responding to a fascist pro imperialist-colonialist troll who was doing apologia for Dutch mass murder, genocide, and rape in the East Indies and Taiwan, when making the jibe about Ottomans in the Balkans, to show his ugly hypocrisy in complaining about Muslim rule. And Armenians were not in the Balkans, I did not even mention them. I specifically said Balkans because they were in Europe.
And I’m damn serious about Arab rule improving Iberia and Sicily.
As for the Philippines:
The Filipinos are the aggressors and colonialist invaders who have been butchering, murdering, raping, and mutilating Moro Muslim women and children for decades and taking this after their previous Spanish and American colonial masters.
The Spanish imperialist-colonialist invaders initiated the aggression against the natives. First the Spanish began an unprovoked, vicious assault against the Muslim Kingdom of Maynila and murdered the King Rajah Sulayman. The Spanish used the sword to forcibly convert the native animist and Muslim peoples of Luzon and the Visayas. The Spanish continued their aggression and pillaged the capital of Brunei and burned Mosques to the ground.
Then the Spanish initiated the aggression against the animist Lumad and Muslim Moro natives of Mindanao. The Spanish launched the first assaults against the Moro Sulu Sultanate, Maguindanao Sultanate, and Sultanates of Lanao. Their attempted conquest against the Moro Muslims and Lumad animists failed as the Moros beat off their attacks and retaliated with raids deep into Luzon and the Visayas. After launching spectacular raids against the Spanish invaders, the Imperialists started whining about “Moro piracy” and claimed this was the excuse for their aggression even though the Spanish initiated the war and started the fire.
Non-Muslim, pagan Chinese allied with the Moro Muslims against the Spanish invader imperialist colonialist forces. Chinese were attacked and dsdcriminated against by the Spanish in Manila and the Spanish launched repeated pogroms against the Chinese parian ghetto in Manila. The Chinese responded by joining the Moros and fighting alongside them and shipping weapons like rifles to the Moro Sultanates and Datus.
Non-Muslim Chinese gun-runners repeatedly broke through the Spanish blockade and delivered shiploads of weapons to the Moros to help in their defense against naked Spanish aggression and invasion.
The Moro Sulu Sultanate was also an ally, tributary state, and protectorate of Imperial China. The Moro Sultanates sent tribute missions to the Ming and Qing dynasties in China and asked the Emperor of China to consider the Sulu Sultanate as his own territory to defend against the Spanish colonialist imperialists. China helped the spread of Islam to the Moros when Chinese junks ferried the Arab missionary Makhdum Karim to the Moros to preach Islam to them, and when Muslim admirals in the Ming dynasty naval helped spread Islam to the Moros. Muslim relatives of the Sulu Sultans live in Shandong province in China.
A Chinese community flourished in the Moro Sultanates. Chinese merchants set up a community in the Sultanates and in Jolo without any persecution and were able to build their own temple in the Moro Sulu capital of Jolo. It was the Spanish who continually persecuted them, attacked the Chinese community and burned their temples.
After the end of the Spanish rule the Americans continued the imperialist colonialist aggression and were even worse than the Spaniards. The Americans used trickery and deception, first signing the Bates Treaty with the Moro Sulu Sultanate, promising to leave them alone. After the Americans were done conquering the islands of Luzon and the Visayas and defeated Aguilnaldo’s Philippine Republic, the Americans then violated the Bates Treaty in 1904 and invaded the Moro lands unprovoked.
The Americans massacred and tortured Moro women and children. At the Moro Crater Massacre in the Battle of Bud Dajo the Americans massacred hundreds of women and children. America then illegally annexed the Moro Sultanate into the Philippine Commonwealth after the violation of the Bates Treaty like they violated countless treaties with Native Americans.
Moro warriors stood up and managed to take shots to their bodies head on from the weakling American invaders whose previously battle experience only consisted of massacring innocent Native American women and children. The weak American .38 caliber pistol could not stop a charging Moro juramentado before they reached the American. Americans were forced to introduced the Colt .45 pistol as their sidearm.
The Moros continued to revolt against Americans up to the Japanese invasion in 1941. Then the Moros proceeded to dispatch countless Japanese soldiers to the afterlife. Countless Japanese rapist corpses were missing ears, heads and other body parts at the hands of Moro Muslim Juramentados. The Moros crushed the Japanese in Mindanao and Sulu and defeated them mercilessly. Japanese soldiers suffered nightmares and were in constant fear of a full body disembowelment at the hands of the Moros.
Many of the weapons the Moros are using now against the Philippines occupation date to World War II and were used against Japanese.
After the Americans granted the Philippines independence, the Moros requested separate independence but when the Americans refused, the Moros decided to acquiesce despite the blatant illegality of the violation of the Bates Treaty and the illegal American invasion and annexation. The Moros gave a try at peace after 1945, but it was the Philippines which started the current round of war.
The native peoples of Mindanao are the Moro Muslims and Lumad animists. The Moros are the native tribes who converted to Islam. The Lumads are the native tribes who stayed as animists due to their living in inaccessible places. The Filipino Christians from Luzon and visayas on the other hand are colonialist-settlers occupiers and not native to Mindanao.
The Americans and the Philippines started a colonization movement to settle Filipino Christian colonialist settlers from the Luzons and Visayans, of Visayan (Cebuano) and other ethnic origins, upon Moro Muslim land and Lumad land in Mindanao and Sulu. Millions of Filipino Christian settlers flocked to steal the land from the Moros. In 1900 Moro Muslims were a majority in Mindanao. By the 1960’s they were a minority with Filipino Christian settler colonialist rapists numbering over 75%.
The Filipino Christian settlers would violently seize land from Moros without paying for it since the Philippine state declared Moro land as public land and gave land titles to the colonialists. The Filipino settlers used extreme violence against the natives and butchery.
Even then, the Moros were not rebelling. The final straw that broke the camel’s back was in 1968. The greedy Filipino Dictator-tyrant Marcos decided to invade Malaysia and seize Sabah from Malaysia and annex it. The Filipinos forcibly recruited Moros into a military unit and tried to force them to participate in the plan to invade Sabah. When the Moros refused, the Filipinos massacred them, in what became known as the Jabidah Massacre.
The Moro National Liberation Front then rose up in revolt against Dictator-Tyrant Marcos. The Philippine military decided to burn the entire city of Jolo to the ground in the 1970’s. The Philippine air force rained bombs on the city and the burning of the city killed over 10,000 innocent Moro and Chinese civilians and burned all the Chinese Temples and Mosques in the city.
The Philippine government aided in the creation of the Ilaga militia which was made out of Filipino Christian settler colonialists on Moro land. The Ilaga engaged in massacring Moro women and children, destroying Mosques, raping Moro women and girls, mutilation, and cannibalizing Moro women and children. They were supported by the Philippine government and army. They were infamous for their involvement in the Manili massacre at a Mosque where they killed innocent Moro civilian women and children.
The Philippine military engaged in countless massacres and atrocitiesbesides the burning of Jolo. They were responsible for the Tacub massacre, Malisbong massacre, Patikul massacre, and Pata Island massacre.
In the Malibsong massacre the Filipino soldiers attacked a Mosque, massacring Moro women and children, and took hundreds of Moro Muslim girls to a boat and raped them all.
It was after these invasions, conquests, treaty violations, colonization and settlement, and repeated massacres, mutilations, cannibalism, and rape that the Moros finally said enough was enough, and rose up in arms against the Philippines.
Chinese have historically supported the Moros. Chinese gun runners used to supply the Moro Sultanates and Datus with rifles. Alot of Chinese Triad gangs have connections to the Moro fighters now. The 14k Triad is connected and supported by ruling the Kuomintang (Nationalist) party on Taiwan and the 14k Triad supplies weapons to various Moro groups. Leland Yee and other Chinese Triads also act as arms dealers wit the Moros.
The 14K Triad was founded by Chinese Nationalist (Kuomintang) troops who fled to Hong Kong from the Communists after the end of the Chinese Civil War. The 14k Triad maintained connections to Taiwan and the Kuomintang. The Kuomintang was a big supporter of Triad groups like Tiandihui, 14k triad and Bamboo Union. President Chiang Ching-kuo in Taiwan once contracted a Bamboo Union gang member Chen Chi-li to assasinate the dissident Henry Liu in America. Not even mainland China has ever conducted assassinations on foreign soil.
14K triad operates in Hong Kong, Thailand and Sulu and Mindanao. Chinese Hui Muslims (Chin Haw) in northern Thailand in Chiang Mai process and manufacture heroin. Then the Hui export the heroin to the non-Muslim Han members of the 14k Triad in Southern Thailand. 14k Triad then sells heroin and then buys weapons, and ships the weapons to Moros in Sulu and Mindanao.
I don’t support Triads, heroin or arms trafficking. The reason I am highlighting this history so the less intelligent people here know that this isn’t about Islam vs non-believers, there is history and network of people including non-Muslims who are involved in this conflict.
After the Moros defeated the Japanese in World War II the Japanese settler colonialist occupiers were forced to return to Japan. Why should the Moros accept Filipino colonialist settlers who have been massacring their women and children, eating them, and raping their girls for decades?
Mindanao and Sulu belong to Moros, Lumads, and Chinese who settled their peacefully. Not to Filipino occupier colonialist settlers who massacre, eat, and rape innocent women and children.
Filipino Christian ilaga settler colonialists are mass murderers, rapists, terrorists and thugs just like the terrorist ISIS and terrorist Al-Qaeda.
Angemon says
shams78 posted:
“I was responding to a fascist pro imperialist-colonialist troll who was doing apologia for Dutch mass murder, genocide, and rape in the East Indies and Taiwan”
Since you’re a fascist pro imperialist-colonialist troll who is doing apologia for muslim mass murder, genocide, and rape in Sicily and the Iberian Peninsula, I guess he’s the perfect foil for you.
“And I’m damn serious about Arab rule improving Iberia and Sicily.”
Yeah, I guess those Italians and Spaniards had to be saved from having too many blond, underage virgins, riches, religious relics, pagan sects, and Jewish communities. Who else but muslims to put an end to it?
shams78 says
You forgot the fact that the Catholics and Jews hated each other in Spain and the Visigothic King enacted laws against Jews after converted to Catholicism
Rebecca says
Someone has to stick up for truth and logic. Too bad it isn’t you. You can only tell lies about people. The Muslims have been proud of their barbarity and you can even see their videos. They are the bad guys. You are the bad guy.
Angemon says
shams78 posted:
“You forgot the fact that the Catholics and Jews hated each other in Spain and the Visigothic King enacted laws against Jews after converted to Catholicism”
Jewish communities in the Iberian Peninsula can be traced back to before it became majority Christian. The first pogrom of Jews in Europe was done in Granada by muslims, not Catholics. Sounds like a whole lot of time living together for two communities that allegedly “hated each other”.
Truth is, muslims treated Jews far worse than Catholics did. And that’s because of what their war manual – the quran – teaches.
shams78 says
The Arian Visigothic Kings did not care about Jews, it was when they converted to Catholicism that they showed their deep rooted hatred for each other. During Arian rule the Visigoths stayed apart from their majority Catholic Hispano-Roman subjects and did not integrate with them.
Sephardic Jews in Iberia opened the gates and garrisoned cities for the Muslims because of their hatred for the Catholics. Sephardic Jews in Iberia participated in the slave trade of European Christians and sold countless Europeans to become eunuchs and concubines in the harems of Muslims. That is where the white eunuchs and concubines of the Arab caliphates came from. There is a reason for the deep seated hatred of Jews by Iberians. You think Ferdinand and Isabella expelled the Jews for no reason? They enabled the humiliation and degradation of European Christians.
Angemon says
shams78 posted:
“The Arian Visigothic Kings did not care about Jews, it was when they converted to Catholicism that they showed their deep rooted hatred for each other. During Arian rule the Visigoths stayed apart from their majority Catholic Hispano-Roman subjects and did not integrate with them.”
Which is irrelevant as far as the causes for muslim invasions went or how badly Jews were treated under muslim rule.
“Sephardic Jews in Iberia opened the gates and garrisoned cities for the Muslims because of their hatred for the Catholics.”
Nope. That’s muslim propaganda. Cities surrendered without a fight because they saw the atrocities muslim invaders did to those who resisted them.
“Sephardic Jews in Iberia participated in the slave trade of European Christians and sold countless Europeans to become eunuchs and concubines in the harems of Muslims. That is where the white eunuchs and concubines of the Arab caliphates came from.”
You’re going to ignore the centuries of slave raids done by muslims from North Africa on European shores and blame it all on the Jews – classic muslim behaviour.
“There is a reason for the deep seated hatred of Jews by Iberians. You think Ferdinand and Isabella expelled the Jews for no reason? They enabled the humiliation and degradation of European Christians.”
Now you’re backpedaling. You said that Catholics and Jews hated one another before the islamic invasion, and now you’re linking the Catholic hatred of Jews to events taking place after the muslim invasion. Spain has recently passed a law awarding citizenship to descendants of expelled Jews. And, of course, you don’t really care about degradation or humiliation of European Christians. In fact, your behaviour here makes me think you are aroused by it.
It seems you’re trying to sidetrack the discussion – muslims were so “welcome” into the Iberian Peninsula and “improved” it so much that its native citizens, both Christians and Jews, kept on fighting until they drove them out.
shams78 says
You are full of crap again. Immediately after converting to Catholicism the Visigoths enacted severe anti-Jewish laws, made it part of Church canon, and this led Jews to help the Muslims garrison cities during the conquest of Iberia. The Jews would act as the local garrison controlling the conquered population while Tariq ibn Ziyad’s army moved from city to city, so the Muslims didn’t have to weaken their army by leaving their soldiers behind as a garrison. Jewish history Professor Norman Roth wrote about that himself.
According to Sharia it is prohibied for a Muslim to castrate another human. The Jews castrated Europeans and sold them into harems. All castrations of Europeans done in Iberia was performed by Sephardic Jewish slave dealers. Jews helped buy, castrate, and sell European eunuchs and concubines into slavery for their Arab masters. Jews castrated countless numbers of Christians.
In Egypt, Coptic monks did the castration on black african slaves.
Sephardic Jews sided with the Ottoman Empire during the North African slave raids on Europe. Sephardic Jews were rescued by the Ottomans after their expulsion from Spain in 1492 and settled in Ottoman territories. Sephardic Jewish banking families like the Nasi and Camondo helped finance the Ottoman wars against Europe and aided in Ottoman strategy and politics against European Christian nations. The Sephardic Jew Joseph Nasi was responsible for starting the Ottoman war against Venice and the conquest of Cyprus and Nasi helped the Netherland Protestants revolt against Spain to weaken Spain, who were the enemies of the Ottomans and fighting a war against the Ottomans in the Mediterranean.
Sephardic Jewish Prime Minister of Britain Benjamin Disraeli was extremely pro-Ottoman and hated Orthodox Christian Russians, Disraeli voiced support for clearing the “Muscovites” (Russians) out of Muslim Central Asia and supporting the Ottomans against Russia and Orthodox Christians. Disraeli said his aim was “to clear Central Asia of Muscovites and drive them into the Caspian”. Disraeli was a fierce rival of Prime Minister William Gladstone, who spoke on behalf of Orthodox Christians in the Ottoman Empire and Gladstone specifically desparaged the Turks on the floor of Parliament and detailed atrocities being committed on Orthodox Christians in the Bulgarian uprising against the Turks.
The Zionist leader Theodore Herzl lobbied on behalf of the Ottomans after the massacres and rapes of Armenians in the Hamidian massacres of 1894-1896. The Ottoman Sultan asked Herzl to lobby against the Armenians In Europe and he obliged and even said “Under no circumstances, are the Armenians to learn that we want to use them in order to erect a Jewish state.”
Jewish leader Abraham Foxman of the Anti Defamation League has helped Turkey lobby against Armenian Genocide recognition in the American Congress. Former israeli President Shimon Peres spoke against Armenian Genocide recogniztion. israel has sold countless weapons to the Turks during their military alliance together.
israel is an ally to the Turkic country Azerbaijan against Armenia while Iran supports Armenia. israel sells Azerbaijan weapons and cooperates with them extensively. Hardcore Zionist, Arab hating Jewish leader Avigdor Lieberman lobbied and spoke out of behalf of Azerbaijan and is against Armenian Genocide recognition.
Iran opened its borders to Armenia and an Iranian President has visited and laid flowers at the Armenian Genocide memorial. Lebanon recognizes the Armenian Genocide as does Syrian President Bashar al Assad. Iran allows Armenians and Assyrians to protest against the Turkish embassy over the genocide.
In Jerusalem, ultra Orthodox Jews spit on Armenian Christian Priests.
The Palestinians openly spat on the Chechen Shamil Basayev’s face when he made them an offer to join forces between Chechens and Palestinians. The PLO under Arafat said they would rather continue having good relations with Russia than ally with some deluded Islamists in the caucasus. israeli Jewish Professor Moshe Gammer wrote books defending the Chechen cause against the Russians.
The PLO under Arafat were allied to the Serbs under Milosevic. Yasser Arafat supported Milosevic and invited him to celebrate Orthodox Christmas in Palestine. israel responded by threatening to arrest Milosevic and hand him over to the ICC if he came.
Yasser Arafat also called the Hindu Indian PM Indira Gandhi as his “sister” and spat in Pakistan’s face by doing this. Arafat supported the pro-Indian, anti-Pakistan PM Hasina in Bangladesh and was friends with her.
Arafat and the PLO helped train Armenian Christian ASALA militants in camps in Lebanon to attack Turkey. The Armenian ASALA and PLO joined together to fight the israeli occupation of Lebanon.
israel meanwhile shipped weapons to Pakistan to help the Afghan Mujahideen during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and israel has sold weapons to Turkey for decades.
Before the advent of Islam in the Arabian peninsula, during the Roman-Persian wars the Jews were already at war with the Christians. The Jews sided with the Persian Zoroastrians against the Roman (Byzantine Christians). When the Persians at first defeated the Romans and seized control of the Levant and Egypt, the Persian Zoroastrians set their Jewish allies as overlords over the Christians in the area. The Jews used their newfound power to engage in multiple massacres of the Christian populations of the Levant. Zoroastrians and Jews hated Christians and Roman Christianity was persecuted in the Persian Empire.
Then Heraclius defeated the Persians and drove them out of the Levant and Egypt and took vengeance on the Jews. Jews were banned from Jerusalem by the Roman Christians. It was Muslim Caliph Umar ibn al Khattab who let the Jews back into Jerusalem after defeating the Romans.
I know all the little dirty secrets about the relations between Jews and Christians- that are swept away in the school curricula of western nations .
Angemon says
shams78 posted:
“You are full of crap again.”
And you prove that by… not countering the points I made. Instead, you ignore them and go on irrelevant red herrings.
“Immediately after converting to Catholicism the Visigoths enacted severe anti-Jewish laws, made it part of Church canon, and this led Jews to help the Muslims garrison cities during the conquest of Iberia.”
Muslim propaganda. Early on, being a minority, muslims had to play Jews against Christians, so they spread all sort of rumours and suspicions to play one against another. Like I said, the first pogrom of Jews in Europe was done by muslims in muslim-ruled Spain, not by Visigoths before the islamic invasion – whatever help Jews gave muslims, whether genuine or at scimitar point, they came to regret it.
“According to Sharia it is prohibied for a Muslim to castrate another human.”
Sharia forbids a lot of things. That never stopped muslims from doing them – they can always garantee their place in the heavenly brothel by dying while waging jihad.
“In Egypt, Coptic monks”
Oh, you mean the dhimmies that had to do what they were told or else be considered rebels at war with islam whose lives were forfeit?
“Sephardic Jews sided with the Ottoman Empire during the North African slave raids on Europe.”
You’re confusing Sephardic Jews with mudéjars – muslims living in Christian-controlled land. Mudéjars would routinely inform north African raiders about coastal defences and best strike locations.
The rest of your post is just the ramblings of a moron trying to split the field and pity Jews against Christians. You can’t even stay on topic – barbarian muslim invaders tried to turn Sicily and the Iberian Peninsula into islamic hellholes but were kicked out as the rabid mongrels they were by Jews and Christians, and that stings you to no end. The islamic rule in Spain was so much of an “improvement” that Spaniards fought muslims wherever they could find them, whether in the Mediterranean or halfway across the globe.
“I know all the little dirty secrets about the relations between Jews and Christians- that are swept away in the school curricula of western nations .”
No, you’re a Zakir Naik-esque wikipedia expert with a chip on both shoulders and a even greater than usual hatred of both Jews and Christians than the usual mohammedan.
Angemon says
shams78 posted:
“The Spanish imperialist-colonialist invaders initiated the aggression against the natives. First the Spanish began an unprovoked, vicious assault against the Muslim Kingdom of Maynila”
Maybe if the Spanish didn’t had to endure centuries of suffering at the hands of islamic imperialist-colonialist invaders, who invaded the Iberian Peninsula without any provocation, killed, raped, pillaged and imposed the draconian measure of sharia law onto the native Spaniards they might have had a little more wiggle room to handle muslims. Since the Spaniards had to endure centuries of suffering at the hands of islamic imperialist-colonialist invaders, who invaded the Iberian Peninsula without any provocation, killed, raped, pillaged and imposed the draconian measure of sharia law upon them, they didn’t. They learned the hard way that muslims only understood the language of raw strength.
Also, no need to tone it down a bit – your bias is obvious.
shams78 says
According to your stupid logic if an African Christian in Congo raped and killed a Muslim woman, that means her family has the right to go to South America and randomly kill Hispanic Christians who had nothing to do with the rape and murder.
What do Moros in Mindanao and Muslims in the Kingdom of Maynila, have to do with Arab and Berbers ruling over Spain? Did they fly magic carpets back in time and space and tell the Arabs to conquer Spain?
Angemon says
shams78 posted:
“According to your stupid logic if an African Christian in Congo raped and killed a Muslim woman, that means her family has the right to go to South America and randomly kill Hispanic Christians who had nothing to do with the rape and murder.”
No, dumbass, I never said that the Spaniards had the right to go and kill muslims anywhere else, did I? I said that if muslims hadn’t invaded the Iberian Peninsula, pillaging, raping and killing, then perhaps the Spaniards wouldn’t done the same.
There’s a difference there, but I doubt a proven biased jackass like you can grasp it.
“What do Moros in Mindanao and Muslims in the Kingdom of Maynila, have to do with Arab and Berbers ruling over Spain?”
Other than reading the same book, praying to the same god, following the same ideology and having the same hatred of Christians?
Funny how you’re trying to frame it in ethnic terms what was clearly a religious conflict – muslims invaded what would become Spain and what they made to the Spanish people made them swear to fight them wherever they might be.
shams78 says
You are a dumbo backbiting liar who can’t even provide sources for your claims. You can’t even respond to the fact that prominent Jews and zionists lobbied for the Ottomans during the massacres of Armenians. Go to an Armenian forum like hyeclub and try peddling your pro-Judaic and pro-Zionist view there.. The word Jew is even censored on that forum….
The Sephardic Jews like the Nasi family supported Ottoman attacks on Christians. Joseph Nasi engineered the Ottoman conquest of Cyprus from the Venetians. He hoped to create a zionist sanctuary for Jews within conquered Christian lands under Ottoman suzerainty..
https://books.google.com/books?id=5UMTCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA238&dq=nasi+family+cyprus&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tuSbVaUbjK3IBLD1jZAO&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=nasi%20family%20cyprus&f=false
https://books.google. com/books?id=3lRkp8Oes18C&pg=PA10&dq=nasi+family+cyprus&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tuSbVaUbjK3IBLD1jZAO&ved=0CEMQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=nasi%20family%20cyprus&f=false
Nasi urged the Netherlands to revolt against Spain in order to weaken Spain for the Ottoman’s benefit.
https://books.google. com/books?id=mMu7BwAAQBAJ&pg=PT114&dq=nasi+family+netherlands&hl=en&sa=X&ei=IOWbVf_cIdH4yQTj_LyYAg&ved=0CE4Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=nasi%20family%20netherlands&f=false
Only the claim that Jews were involved in a conspiracy to help the Muslims before the conquest happened is regarded as a legend. There was no grand plan. But the Jews hated the Visigoth Catholics, and the part about Jews agreeing to serve as garrisons for the Muslim armies once they showed up and conquered the city is not part of legend at all and is agreed by Jewish scholars to be correct.
https://books.google. com/books?id=bHh5plYLhHEC&pg=PA73&dq=norman+roth+jews+garrison&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SuSbVbeEKNWmyATWn4SwDw&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=norman%20roth%20jews%20garrison&f=false
In Tripoli in Lebanon, the Jews also served as garrison forces for the Ummayads after the Muslims defeated the Byzantines..
https://books.google. com/books?id=GdIyAQAAQBAJ&pg=PA186&dq=norman+roth+jews+garrison&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9uWbVe6GN4OsyATu-a5g&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=norman%20roth%20jews%20garrison&f=false
Norman Roth: “The Visigothic period produced the most vile polemic and the harshest legislation against Jews encountered at any time in medieval Europe.”
https://books.google. com/books?id=a0q6BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA13&dq=norman+roth+jews+garrison&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9uWbVe6GN4OsyATu-a5g&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=norman%20roth%20jews%20garrison&f=false
Angemon says
shams78 posted:
“You are a dumbo backbiting liar who can’t even provide sources for your claims.”
Says the jackass who not only has been caught lying and was forced to backpedal but also is flopping all around as to avoid discuss points he brought up.
Muslim invasion of Europe, including Sicily and the Iberian Peninsula, was so barbaric and inhumane that the natives didn’t stop until they drove muslims out, with a vengeance. After enduring centuries of oppression at the hands of muslims, Spaniards fought them wherever they could find them, whether in the Mediterranean Sea or halfway across the globe. The muslims allowed to live in Christian Spain were always causing trouble for the native, routinely revolting and cooperating with the north African raiders. You stated that Sicily and the Iberian Peninsula were “hellholes” and that the “arab” invasion was an improvement, but so far you brought nothing to the table to prove it. Peddling your islamic anti-semitism simply won’t cut it, dumbass.
shams78 says
The illegitimate progeny of the Arab armies also invaded pagan Amerindians who had zero to do with Islam and engaged in mass rape and genocide of countless natives in Mexico, Peru, Arizona, Florida, the Carribean, , Argentina, and countless ither places.
The Iberians were only impregnated by their Arab and Berber forfathers. It was a racial conquest and the Ummayads treated Mawali as second class citizens and inferior to Arabs. The Arab racial domination, impregnation of Iberian women, and feminization of Iberian men (with the help of Jewish hands skilled at wielding a knife) has jack to do with Moro Muslims on the other side of the planet.
By the way the Spanish never succeeded in their conquest of the Moros. In fact the illegitimate offspring of Tariq ibn Ziyad and the Ummayads were epeatedly humiliated by the Muslims in southeast asia. The Moros fought off their attacks on Mindanao and Sulu, in 1597 Malay Muslim merchants trading with Cambodians managed to massacre an entire Spanish expedition trying to conquer Cambodia (a Buddhist country), the Spanish were forced to vacate Brunei after their attempted conquest, and the Chinese leader Koxinga forced Spain to abandon their colony on the Maluku islands (Moluccas) in 1662-1663. And the leaders of the Spanish were incestous, disease ridden, and mentally handicapped. King Philip II married his own niece and had child with her, and died a painful disease ridden death in his bead as he defecated through it. The last Habsburg King of Spain was a mentally challenged dolt with a deformed face.
It took the Americans thirteen years to finally conquer and incorporate the Moro Sultanates on Sulu and Mindanao into the Philippines.
The Dutch were also massacred in Cambodia in 1643-1644 by the Malay Muslim merchants. Although they never had an anti-Muslim agenda,
Angemon says
So the sham finally dropped the nearly invisible semblance of fact-based approach and engorged himself on the racist hatred of White Europeans that consumes him. Good going, jackass. You might get some traction with that on stormfront but not here. Here, you are just identified as the execrable piece of human waste you are and given the “respect” you deserve.
And, of course, what I said goes unanswered: the barbarities the Spaniards endured under centuries of muslim rule made them fight muslism wherever they found them, whether on the Mediterranean Sea or halfway across the globe, depite your claims that Sicily and the Iberian Peninsula were “hellholes” and that the “arab” invasion improved them.
Semeru says
Agrononse really exposes himself as a clueless jerk
So the sham finally dropped the nearly invisible semblance of fact-based approach and engorged himself on the racist hatred of White Europeans that consumes him. Good going, jackass. You might get some traction with that on stormfront but not here. Here, you are just identified as the execrable piece of human waste you are and given the “respect” you deserve.
When agrononse can’t refute anything he resorts to ad-homiens and general dung slinging.
He suggests that shams because of his racist hatred of White Europeans might get some traction on stormfront
What a joke, agrononse seems not to have clue to the nature of stormfront. Anybody with racist hatred of White Europeans views would be ravaged.
Angemon says
The dunce posted:
“When agrononse can’t refute anything he resorts to ad-homiens and general dung slinging.”
Have you not been following the argument, dumbass? I used sham’s sources to call him out on what he said, and I called him a racist when he went on a racist tirade. Of course, it comes as no surprise that you’re here playing the cheerleader for him. And, also coming as no surprise, is your biased view – you have no problems when the sham does the insulting, only when I rightfully call him a racist.
“He suggests that shams because of his racist hatred of White Europeans might get some traction on stormfront”
He might get traction on stormfront because of the blatant, pathological anti-semitism he’s shown so far.
You’re also proving how poor of a thinker you are – you claim I resorted to “ad-homiens and general dung slinging” when I called him a racist but you’re here admitting he is a racist. Good going, jackass!
Angemon says
the dunce posted:
“Anybody with racist hatred of White Europeans views would be ravaged.”
Sounds like the kind of place where the sham might want to go – pathological anti-semitism, he gets to be in the center of their circle jerk , virulent racist hatred of White Europeans, he pisses them off and gets to jerk at the replies he get. Heads, he wins, tails, they lose.
shams78 says
Understanding hatred between Jews and Christian Europeans elucidates the understanding of history. There are only two kinds of people who reject this, those who are in genuine denial, or those with agendas. although members of Jwatch who engage in nasty attacks like people here may belong to the latter category, there are lurkers whom I suspect actually possess intelligence and aptitude. I make these posts for their benefit. Instead of responding to each and every point I make, the people in the latter category engage in their nasty infantile attacks.
There are actually intelligent and competent people on here like Semeru, sinantara, and Ian_A_S.
Then there are hardcore trolls and people who are engaging in a massive circle jerk with each other and swallow up every word Jwatch says without critical thinking.
In Roman-Persian wars the Jews sided with the Persian Zoroastrians against the Roman (Byzantine Christians). When the Persians at first defeated the Romans and seized control of the Levant and Egypt, the Persian Zoroastrians set their Jewish allies in control of a client state where they lorded over the Christians in the area. The Jews started multiple massacres of the Christian populations of the Levant. Zoroastrians and Jews hated Christians and Roman Christianity was persecuted in the Persian Empire.
Then Heraclius defeated the Persians and drove them out of the Levant and Egypt and took vengeance on the Jews. Jews were banned from Jerusalem by the Roman Christians. It was Muslim Caliph Umar ibn al Khattab who let the Jews back into Jerusalem after defeating the Romans.
Before the Crusaders embarked on the Crusades, they first attacked and massacred the Ashkenazi Jews living in Europe and slaughtered them down to women and children.
The Jews of Haifa fought against the Crusaders in 1100 and after the Crusaders took the city, and slaughtered every single Jew in the city. After Muslim forces under Saladin retook Haifa in 1177 the Jews returned to the city.
After the Ottoman Turks hung the Greek Orthodox Patriarch Gregory V of Constantinople in 1821 during the Greek uprising, Jews helped mutilate the Patriarch’s body and threw it into the sea.
During the Ottoman Turkish genocide of Armenians and Assyrians the Turks left the Jewish community alone. The Jews magically went unharmed while Christians were raped and massacred.
During the 1922 Burning of Smyrna by Ataturk’s Turkish army, the Armenian and Greek quarters were subjected to mass slaughter, rape of women and girls, and wholesale burning, while the Jewish quarter was magically untouched. The Turks murdered and mutilated the Greek Orthodox Metropolitan Bishop Chrysostomos of Smyrna after taking him to a barbershop owned by a Jew named Ismail.
Sephardic Jews like the Nasi and Camondo families bankrolled Ottoman wars against Christians, encouraged Ottoman conquests of Christian lands, and spread dissension between Christians like the Netherlands and Spain to weaken the Europeans and help the Ottomans. Much of the Sephardic Jewish population fled to Ottoman territories after their expulsion from Spain.
The Sephardic Jew Benjamin Disareli was a fierce lobbiest for backing Ottoman Turkey against Russia and Orthodox Christians and was a fierce rival of William Gladstone, the opponent of the Turks and speaker on behalf of Orthodox Christian Bulgarians revolting against the Ottomans.
During the revolts of the Orthodox Christians against the Turks, the Orthodox Christians would kill Jews along with Muslims because the Jews supported Ottoman rule. Serbian troops killed Jews in Macedonia and Bulgarians and Russians killed Jews when fighting the Ottomans.
Jewish lobbiest Abraham Foxman, hardcore Zionist Avigdor Lieberman, and former israeli President Shimon Peres advocated against recognizing the Armenian Genocide on Turkey’s behalf.
Angemon says
shams78 posted:
“there are lurkers whom I suspect actually possess intelligence and aptitude. I make these posts for their benefit.”
No, you don’t. You engage in all manner of tu-quoquery, lies and irrelevant subjects to draw the focus of discussion away from muslims committing wrongdoing in the name of their moon god – for example, are you ever going to tell how the “arab” invaders “improved” Sicily or the Iberian Peninsula? Thought so.
“Instead of responding to each and every point I make, the people in the latter category engage in their nasty infantile attacks.”
This is funny because it’s coming from someone who went on a racist, supremacist tirade. Try to save face all you want – you’re not fooling anyone now anymore than you did before being banned.
“There are actually intelligent and competent people on here like Semeru, sinantara, and Ian_A_S.”
Any regular here can attest that semeru (who, in the past, defended the drinking of camel urine) is neither intelligent nor competent.
Rebecca says
If any of your diatribes were true, we would really have to wonder why Jews continue to live in western countries, and why the western countries continue to let the Jews run everything.
Champ says
Angemon wrote:
Any regular here can attest that semeru (who, in the past, defended the drinking of camel urine) is neither intelligent nor competent.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
True, Angemon. It’s absolutely ridiculous that anyone would even *consider* semeru as an intelligent contributor. That notion is beyond absurd. Good for a laugh, though …:)
Rebecca says
It must be nice to kick back and spend a month lying about people. Some on this site must be on welfare in an Anglo nation. No need for these “men” to work with Christians supporting them.
shams78 says
Semeru actually posses critical thinking and independent thought unlike you people, and he doesn’t participate in circle jerking but instead works to uncover the truth. israel can never be criticized on here by your people, even if israel support Turkey in bombing Armenia to oblivion you would all turn a blind eye.
If any of you actually debate Muslims you will get owned and smacked down big time for your constant lies and your slavish worship of Zionism. Only Semeru, Sinantara and other sane people can pose a challenge.
Angemon says
shams78 posted:
“Semeru actually posses critical thinking and independent thought”
Semeru is the polar opposite of critical thinking and independent thought. He can’t tell the difference between what I say and what an article says, he tried to cast suspicions on a quote I took from a book not by posting another source that contradicted it but by stating I couldn’t prove I owned the book – even though he found it on Google Books and could check the quote for himself – and that’s just from the top of my head. His MO is scanning posts and replying by copy/pasting info from somewhere else (it’s always easy to spot where he’s copy/pasting – just look for the grammatically correct, error free, English) based on whatever keywords he comes across.
Like you, semeru/semeu just pops in to try to murk the waters and take the focus of the discussion away from islam and muslims. It’s no wonder you like him.
kay says
Re Shams : “israel can never be criticized on here by your people, even if israel support Turkey in bombing Armenia to oblivion you would all turn a blind eye.”
This is incoherent nonsense by Shams. And he is guessing wrong.
1) I am perfectly capable of criticizing Israel. I do not hold any position favoring Israel over any others, and I contribute a lot on these threads. Shams gives NO argument as to why “Israel can never ( ! ! ) be criticized” by some *undefined* group of people.
Why is that Shams?
Is it because you have some delusion that Americans on the Internet have not free speech? That we are oppressed in some way like the Islamic Sharia fascists oppress people in many countries such as Pakistan and Bangladesh? Not so. I will prove you wrong right now: I say that Israel has Undue Influence on the US Congress. There. I just criticized Israel for everyone here to see. And your momma Shams raised a foo.
2) As for book references, I have provided BOTH Andrew Bostom book references on Islam, and those are big thick well-researched books. Shams, you will completely unable to break those books. They are extraordinarily clear and substantial statements of the great evils of Islamic fascism in history and in current practice.
So it looks like you’ve really lost badly, being unwilling and/ or unable to answer those. With those books I will continue to crush you and your evil jihadi friends all over social media, as I do on Youtube.
3) This bizarre statement of yours “israel support Turkey in bombing Armenia” is completely incoherent. The Islamic Turks slaughtered 800,000 to 1.2 million Armenians in the early 20th C, as I have already evidenced, and for which good new books are available on Amazon today. Jews have nothing whatsoever to do with Otttoman type fascism.
Turkey’s Islamic fanatic Erdogan is calling for war on Israel. Why would Israel want anything to do with that vicious Islamic regime whose leader wants to take Jerusalem and destroy Israel? Of course they never would. Clearly your bizarre statement makes no sense. Here is the reference:
http://www.algemeiner.com/2015/06/01/erdogan-calls-for-liberation-of-jerusalem-from-the-jews/
Turkey’s Erdogan is by his own words a jihadi, a vicious, warmongering Islamist psychopath. And his regime is a major ( quiet ) partner to Islamic State. The Islamist psychopathic destruction and rivers of blood in Syria and Iraq – including the slaughter of unarmed Shia Muslims, Kurds and Christians – are all bad karma for Erdogan as well, since he sets the state security policy for the evil Turkish regime, and his government supports Islamic State and has worked hard against relief for the Iraqi Kurds.
Turkey’s Erdogan is a psychopath. The Israelis are not bloodthirsty psychopaths who start large new wars without any cause, I will give them that much. But al-Qaeda and Islamic State and Seleka and Boko Haram and Taliban and al-Shabab ARE vicious bloodthirsty psychopaths.
And MUCH of the Islamic world supports the evil psychopath of jihad against civilian populations. That is demonstrated for Indonesia, the largest population of Muslims, and a provably pro-jihadi population.
Well Shams, you’re negative 3 for 3 on this thread, just by my dialogue alone. You want so much to be a pro-jihadi bad guy, and extoll the wonders of the Islamic imperialist destruction of Spain and the Ottoman war on Eastern Europe that went right up to the agates of Vienna. Clearly you won’t make friends here but only enemies, and humiliate yourself a lot by running on my sword.
I really like wiping the floor with you Shams. It’s fun and it’s for a good cause, namely the defense of civilization against evil psychopathic Islamic fascism. And active collaborators with same, such as you. Thanks for playing!
BTW, as an active supporter of all this Islamic bloodshed, Shams, you also incur really bad karma. Yours is not so bad as that for the psychopath Erdogan, who will according to Buddhist theory of karma end up in the burning hells for eons. Along with large numbers of his fellow pious Islamic psychopaths, of course.
4) And that’s the punchline: the karmic outcome. The Islamofascists are engaged in wars of jihad against civilian populations, raping and enslaving children and killing disarmed captured army servicemen, mostly “fellow Muslims.” Karma says that all these Islamists go down to the burning hells. Neat, huh? There is cosmic justice after all. And bloodthirsty monotheists go. All. The. Way. Down. Just like the Nazis and the Communists. Burn baby burn! Look at all these Islamic countries in downward spirals!
It’s not about “belief”. It’s about getting the result of cruelty and evil no matter the belief. And also the good guys who fight for freedom and civilization; they get the good karma. And that ends the Buddhist sermon for today. Go Civilization! Beat Jihad!
shams78 says
Sinan Reis and many other Jewish pirates served directly under the Ottoman navy and raided Christians. That is in addition to Jewish banking families like Nasi and Camondo funding Ottoman wars against Christians, urging conquest of Christian lands, and spreading dissension between Christians for Ottoman gains. And the Jews of Medieval Spain who castrated countless Christian boys and sold them into the harems of Muslims.
israel is a key ally of Armenia hating Azerbaijan and israeli Orthodox Jews show their akhlaq towards Christians by spitting on Armenian Christian Orthodox Priests in Jerusalem.
shams78 says
The Omani Ibadi Arabs defeated the other illegitimate progeny of the Arabs in East Africa. The Omanis defeated them first in Muscat, drove them out of the East African Swahili coast from Kenya to Tanzania and Zanzibar and blasted their ships out of the water on the Indian coast.
They were defeated at the hands of the Chinese in the 1520’s in response to their attack and aggression on Malay Muslims in the Malacca Sultanate in 1511. The bastard offspring of the Ummayads, Almoravids, and Almohads had their ships blown out of the water by the Chinese navy at Tamao and Xicaowan in 1521 and 1522 and were subjected to harsh and swift justice by the Chinese for their attack on the Malay Muslims. Pires and many members of the Portuguese forces faced ingenious methods of disposal by the Chinese.
Angemon says
So the sham finally dropped the nearly invisible semblance of fact-based approach and engorged himself on the racist hatred of White Europeans that consumes him. Good going, jackass. You might get some traction with that on stormfront but not here. Here, you are just identified as the execrable piece of human waste you are and given the “respect” you deserve.
And, of course, what I said goes unanswered: the barbarities the Spaniards endured under centuries of muslim rule made them fight muslism wherever they found them, whether on the Mediterranean Sea or halfway across the globe, depite your claims that Sicily and the Iberian Peninsula were “hellholes” and that the “arab” invasion improved them.
Champ says
The only truth coming from “shams78” is his choice of a moniker. Yep, he’s running a BIG sham, on JW, with his lies and inane offerings.
And islam is based upon lies, lies, and more lies …
Wow ‘shams’ sure is a lost cause serving an evil cause: islam.
Angemon says
Let’s take a look at what the lying jackass wrote:
“But the Jews hated the Visigoth Catholics, and the part about Jews agreeing to serve as garrisons for the Muslim armies once they showed up and conquered the city is not part of legend at all and is agreed by Jewish scholars to be correct.”
Now let’s take a look at what’s on his link:
“The legend… that Jews betrayed the city of Toledo to the muslims is part of the general “Jewish betrayals” of the medieval period. The most reliable muslim source states that when Toledo was found abandoned, in fact by the Christians, the muslim commander “installed there Jews – together with a certain number of his soldiers” ”
It seems that the so-called “conquest” was, in fact, the capitulation of a city (probably warned of the atrocities muslims were committing upon those who resisted them) deserted by Christians and where muslim soldiers were left to keep an eye on the Jewish “garrison” – quite different from what the jackass implied, and quite similar to what we’re seeing today with the islamic state: they conquer a city and leave a token force while the main force moves on to the next city. Meanwhile, life in the city goes on as close as normal as it can go.
kay says
Title: Phillipines Civil War and Moro Phillipino Islamist separatists and Islamist Indonesia
Re: “innocent Moro civilian” and “Filipino Christian ilaga settler colonialists are mass murderers, rapists, terrorists and thugs just like the terrorist ISIS and terrorist Al-Qaeda.”
Refutation:
This is of course all nonsense. Here the emphatically pro-Islamist apologetics fail. The wikipedia articles show how the Islamist Moros are deeply involved with violence and terrorism and even al-Qaeda training camps. The Filipino Islamist Moro are very much the bad guys. Moro CANNOT claim to be the “victims”. They are bloodthirsty. 150,000 people have died in a Muslim separatist civil war against the Phillipine government. Because they are Islamist and they cannot stand the idea of democracy, civil courts and equality under the law. They want fascist Islamic Sharia instead. So they blow people up and work with the al-Qaeda.
The civil war as waged by Filipinos against the Moro is civil war, NOT a struggle to destroy Europe and democracy and civilization, like jihad.
And a substantial majority of Muslim Indonesians claim to support bloodthirsty jihad. ( See below. ) So technically, the people of Indonesia are mostly in the enemy camp of Islamic fascist global imperialism. This is a problem for everybody!!
————-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moro_Islamic_Liberation_Front
http://www.terrorism.com/2014/04/26/moro-islamic-liberation-front-milf/
The Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) is an Islamic, guerrilla separatist movement in the Southern Philippines. Previously it was part of the Moro National Liberation Front (MNLF), another separatist group. Unlike the MNLF, who want a more secular government, the MILF seeks to establish a state fully governed by the Koran and Islamic sharia law. MILF also does not recognize the Philippine constitution and fights the government.
————-
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/26/30-philippine-commandos-killed-search-for-top-terror-suspect
The [ cease-fire ] pact, which was signed in March, aims to establish a more powerful and better-funded autonomous region for minority Muslims in the south and end a decades-long rebellion. The conflict has left 150,000 people dead and helped stunt development in the country’s poorest region.
At least four smaller armed groups, including the al-Qaida-linked Abu Sayyaf group, have continued fighting government forces and staging attacks in the south.
————-
It is RIDICULOUS for Shams to say that Filipino Christians are “just like” ISIS and al-Qaeda. No, it is the Islamist Moro Filipinos who are EXACTLY like Islamic State and al-Qaeda. The Filipino Christians are not slaughtering 10,000 Nigerians like Islamic State / Boko Haram. They are not attacking Egypt. Upwards of 1,900 Egyptians have been killed by jihadists.
————-
From
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad
In the twentieth century, one of the first Islamist groups, the Muslim Brotherhood emphasized physical struggle and martyrdom in its credo: “God is our objective; the Quran is our constitution; the Prophet is our leader; struggle (jihad) is our way; and death for the sake of God is the highest of our aspirations.”…
The highly influential Muslim Brotherhood leader, Sayyid Qutb, preached in his book Milestones that jihad, `is not a temporary phase but a permanent war … Jihad for freedom cannot cease until the Satanic forces are put to an end and the religion is purified for God in toto.`[76][77] Like Ibn Taymiyya, Qutb focused on martyrdom and jihad, but he added the theme of the treachery and enmity towards Islam of Christians and especially Jews…A poll by Gallup showed that a “significant majority” of Muslim Indonesians define the term to mean “sacrificing one’s life for the sake of Islam/God/a just cause” or “fighting against the opponents of Islam”.
————
This is what we are up against. The West is NOT against Indonesia. The US Navy tried to bring Indonesia critically needed crisis care support following the massive tsunami, and Indonesia rejected that aid!
But Indonesia – as a people – Is Against The West. The Indonesians are pro-jihad and they PUBLICLY support the destruction of human rights ( both at home and abroad ) and they support the imposition of fascist Islamic Sharia upon the free peoples of the West. The largest Islamic country/ population in the world, Indonesia, claims to be our direct enemy. They want t osee us smashed. They are true Islamofascists.