Ihsan Bagby, an associate professor of Islamic studies at the University of Kentucky, spoke of “the shock that there’s a kid who seems to grow up in the shadow of the Muslim community and yet chooses a path of extremism and violence that nobody taught them in the community. It’s a betrayal of the community.”
So we are to believe that the Muslims who are — by their own account — most fervent and devout are adhering to a form of Islam that is completely foreign to the Islam taught in their local mosques, and that they grew up hearing. What a strange phenomenon! Yet no one seems in the least curious about how it came to be.
As for the fear of “revenge,” this hardly ever materializes, and yet is the constant preoccupation of the mainstream media after every jihad attack. Notice that the New York Times doesn’t ask the people at the Islamic Society of Greater Chattanooga or anywhere else what programs that have in place or are instituting in order to make sure that there won’t be any more young misunderstanders of Islam like Mohammad Youssuf Abdulazeez. The assumption that he must have learned his violent Islam somewhere other than inside the mosque he attended is taken for granted by the Paper of Record, without investigation or even a single question.
“At a Mosque, Grief Mixes With Fear of Revenge,” by Richard Fausset and Laurie Goodstein, New York Times, July 17, 2015:
CHATTANOOGA, Tenn. — Just beyond a massive strip mall, with its Best Buy and Hobby Lobby, Abdul Baasit, the imam at the Islamic Society of Greater Chattanooga, found himself preaching on Friday about a nightmare.
It was Eid al-Fitr, at the end of Ramadan, normally a time of gift-giving and carnival celebration. But the party that had been planned was canceled: A man who had attended prayer services at the center’s mosque killed four Marines on Thursday. And Mr. Baasit, 48, was trying to help Chattanooga’s Muslim faithful cope with their grief over the deaths, and their fear of reprisal.
“You do not want what is not right to be associated with Islam,” Mr. Baasit, a native of Ghana, said in lilting, heavily accented English. “And yet it is happening.”…
Nashville’s Muslim population, for example, has swelled in recent years with an influx of Kurdish and Somali refugees. The Muslim population in Chattanooga is smaller but well established and diverse, made up of first- and second-generation immigrants and African-Americans, said Daoud Abudiab, president of the Islamic Center of Columbia, Tenn., about 45 miles south of Nashville, who is active in interfaith relations throughout the state.
That growth — especially the arrival of immigrants and refugees — has led to a backlash in some quarters, and Tennessee has become a hotbed of anti-Islam activity. The center that Mr. Abudiab helped to found was burned to the ground in 2008, the debris found etched with swastikas and racist graffiti. Three members of a white supremacist movement known as Christian Identity were given prison sentences.
Opposition to a mosque expansion project in Murfreesboro grew so heated that construction vehicles on the property were set on fire, and the mosque members faced years of legal wrangling over zoning restrictions in local government. Then the Tennessee General Assembly took up legislation in 2011 that sought to outlaw the practice of Shariah, or Islamic law, making it punishable by 15 years in jail.
On Friday, Ossama Bahloul, the imam of the Islamic Center of Murfreesboro, said the attack in Chattanooga “was shocking to everyone” because Mr. Abdulazeez seemed so American, having grown up and gone to school in Tennessee.
He said he was horrified by the shooting. “Four Marines serving the country, to be killed like that,” he said. “It is despicable.”
But Dr. Bahloul also said he was worried about what it could mean for all Muslims in the region. “People become upset, and they react,” he said.
Other Muslim leaders echoed that sentiment, describing Friday Prayer and events that combined the usual holiday fare with warnings about Islamic extremism.
Ihsan Bagby, an associate professor of Islamic studies at the University of Kentucky, said that at his mosque in Lexington on Friday, the person giving the sermon talked about what had happened in Chattanooga and the growing threat of radicalization.
“I’m sure comments like that were made throughout mosques in America,” he said. “Just the shock that there’s a kid who seems to grow up in the shadow of the Muslim community and yet chooses a path of extremism and violence that nobody taught them in the community. It’s a betrayal of the community.”
Mr. Abudiab, head of the Islamic Center in Columbia, said he also found the shooting in Chattanooga shocking. “He seemed to be your average all-American young man with a bright future,” he said of Mr. Abdulazeez. “So that’s where the shock lies.”…
At Friday Prayer, some members said they were indeed nervous that the shooting could provoke bad feelings.
Mustapha Coulibaly, 36, a native of Ivory Coast, said that some non-Muslims in Tennessee were still upset about the backlash against the Confederate flag. And now this.
Mr. Coulibaly said he was concerned about retaliation, adding, “We know we have a lot of people not being happy.”…

John spielman says
if they preached jihad from that mosque it must be sued and closed and turned over to us infidels to make into a pub or a pork sausage factory!
John Doe says
John, I love your comment !!!! Have a drink on me!!!! Add a beer garden!!!! Cheers!!!!
particolor says
Looks like Gas Dome ! 🙂
And Ill bet the Imam fills it on Friday !
Just before they all go outside and throw Rocks at each other ,like Cashmere !
Shane says
I believe the stats show that 80% of Mosques in the USA preach that jihad (holy war) is the duty of all Muslims against the enemies of allah. Of course, anyone who is a non-Muslim who rejects dhimmi status can be considered to be an enemy of allah. Obviously, Obama in not an enemy of allah.
I can’t blame the non-Muslims in America for not wanting a giant mosque and a lot of Muslims in their community. We must stop the insanity of allowing large numbers of Muslims to immigrate into the West, as everyone one of them carries the deadly jihad virus in them.
mgoldberg says
the 80% reveals the other side of the problem. That being that it is never discussed what it is that makes for 80% to be considered as teaching Jihad, nor why none of the congregants have ever to my knowledge ever presented themselves as against those teachings and I mean even anonymously.
And of course there is the ever present treachery of the Times and most of the msn that portrays the problems of these mosques after their congregants slaughter innocents as the suspicious fears of non muslims.
There hasn’t been but one or two such responses versus hundreds of attacks by muslims in america and attempted attacks.
Joseph says
When has there ever been a retaliation for a perverted Islamic killing done inside the USA? I am getting tired of them playing the victim when they clearly are the aggressor. OOOH poor Muslims, they are so afraid.
If they are afraid of the repercussions then when will they start alerting the authorities of these radicals and try and help prevent them instead of aid them. There had to be clear signs to those that were close to this guy and yet nothing was said.
People that try to commit suicide show their hand before they even come close to trying and this is also true of those that choose the path of violence. Milk does not spoil overnight in the refrigerator, it takes time. Muslims do not just wake up one morning and decide to go on a killing spree, it take time.
If the Muslims are so afraid then they can bury their heads between the cheeks of my ass and kiss my bunghole, it’s safe there.
On second thought…cancel that last one, I don’t want a Mussy anywhere near me.
donnie newell says
were screwed..sharia law anyone? as soon as someone retaliates we gonna have a huge problem .I can see a war beginning and the muslims will win. our government is full of idiots.
Joseph says
@ donnie newell
Gee I AM SO HAPPY about your optimism. The Moozlims will not win at any fight in the USA.
Your right to bear arms are protected for this type of scenario. Our forefathers thought about things like this very carefully.
Defeat starts in the heart. If you think you will lose you have already lost. America and the free world has overcome bigger problems than this. Pick yourself up and hold your head high, this fight is not for us but for those that come after. We can’t lose and we WON’T!!!!
Shane says
If the majority of Muslims do decide to war against the USA, they will be destroyed in a few week. They represent only about 2% of our population and many of our adult men and women are armed. I hope they do join a jihad against the USA so that we can permanently deal with the problem of Islamic jihad in America.
voegelinian says
“If the majority of Muslims do decide to war against the USA, they will be destroyed in a few week. They represent only about 2% of our population and many of our adult men and women are armed. ”
That’s why they haven’t, and most likely won’t, wage frank war against America. They know they’ll lose that way.
Luckily for Muslims (Allah T’alla!), they have other tricks up their sleeve — a whole concatenation of, to paraphrase the great von Clausewitz, “Qital by other means” — namely, punctuations of violent jihad here and there, combined with Jihad of the Feet (Immigration), Lawfare, and the various flavors of Stealth Jihad.
All told, these “other means” of fighting their world war against us are enormously enabled by four factors — three of them pertaining to Muslims; one pertaining to us:
1) the sheer numbers of Muslims worldwide, and streaming into the West
2) the ostensible “ethnicity” of the vast majority of Muslims
3) the scripted fanaticism that inspires and motivates Muslims.
4) the West’s overwhelming Useful Idiocy.
#1 is self-explanatory.
#2 is a fact that reveals the hypocritical racism of white Western PC MCs – specifically, the reverse racism of privileging the Other over our own civilization to an irrational degree. It is in my estimation the main reason why the West remains myopic in the face of the problem of Islam (which, perforce, is the problem of Muslim putting their Islam into diverse — diversely mendacious and murderous, that is — practice).
#3 speaks to not only the devout zeal of Muslims to pursue their world war against us, but also it’s solid foundation in the culture and texts of their Super-Culture, Islam.
Meanwhile, #4 remains the primary reason why Muslims have been as outrageously successful in pursuing their infiltration-cum-invasion of our societies as they have been, and continue to be. Our Useful Idiocy is spelled out in the paradigm & worldview of PC MC (Politically Correct Multi-Culturalism) – a worldview that has over the past half century or so come to affect (and infect) the hearts and minds of the majority of Westerners of all stations – high, low, in-between; Dastardly Elites and Average Commoners (as well as the vast demographic between these two quaintly medieval-sounding descriptors); Left, Right, and Center; Christians, Jews, Agnostics, Atheists, New Agers, Wiccans; etc.
And it has come to affect and infect the hearts and minds of quite a few even in the Counter-Jihad. Thus, to hark back to my first two sentences above, referring to the prospect of American Muslims winning a war against us, should they decide to wage it frankly with their meager less than 2% numbers:
“That’s why they haven’t, and most likely won’t, wage frank war against America. They know they’ll lose that way.”
The appearance Muslims acquire by not frankly waging war, but rather pursuing their alternative means that don’t appear to be a war, fools many in the West into thinking that American Muslims are somehow magically different from Muslims in Paris, or Muslims in London, or Muslims in Amsterdam — or Muslims in Marrakesh, Muslims in Karachi, Muslims in Cairo, Muslims in Baghdad, Muslims in Mecca, Muslims in Kabul, Muslims in Darfur; et cetera ad Islamonauseam.
Thus the relatively low-lying strategy of Muslims in countries where they know they are overwhelmingly outmanned and outgunned (America and Canada the most and thus American and Canadian Muslims the least troublemaking, by comparison; Netherlands, Germany & Italy more so by a certain degree; France & England more so even further; etc.) continues to fool most in the West. And indeed, it has even fooled some in the Counter-Jihad, and some longtime and staunchly anti-Islam Jihad Watch readers – such as “Wellington” who, in this specific regard had the following exchange with me back in late 2014:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/12/congressman-state-dept-should-hire-muslim-scholars-to-combat-islamic-state-ideology/comment-page-2#comment-1158056
Angemon says
voegelinian posted:
“And indeed, it has even fooled some in the Counter-Jihad, and some longtime and staunchly anti-Islam Jihad Watch readers – such as “Wellington” who, in this specific regard had the following exchange with me back in late 2014:”
The so-called “exchange” you’re linking to consists of you claiming Wellington said such and such somewhere else followed by a reply that’s either sophistry, doesn’t answer Wellington’s point, or both. There’s no actual exchange going on, just you building strawmen and “defeating” them, as to make it appear you’ve actually bested Wellington.
As for why you brought up Wellington out of nowhere… well, let’s just say that some people work hard, rise above their peers and are recognized for it while others want to get that same recognition and prefer to drag others down as to make themselves appear superior:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/06/reza-aslan-claims-anti-fascist-pope-pius-xi-was-a-fascist#comment-1078602
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/05/jihadis-dont-show-up-at-phoenix-mosque-protest-so-no-one-gets-hurt/comment-page-1#comment-1245774
voegelinian says
I failed to make clear the powerful nexus between #2 and #4 in my list of factors — for it is the perceived ethnicity of Muslims which fuels the West’s anxious need (in terms of PC MC) to avoid the thought crime of “racism” and “bigotry” against Muslims; and this in turn is the main reason why the West continues to be in denial about the systemic and metastasizing problem of Muslims putting their pernicious and seditious ideology of Islam into practice.
Purushottam Deshmukh says
Dear Joseph,
One day all of us shall be gotten rid of these gory idiotic jihadist elements. I request you not to use dirty language for these filthy creatures. Our secular and democratic mindset does not allow us even to dehumanizing the inhuman.
Joseph says
@ Purushottam Deshmukh
What dirty language???
There is not a single swear in my post.
Have you forgotten that this is “technically” war???
Yes it was declared, by actions and words.
Purushottam Deshmukh says
Dear Joseph,
Read your sentence:
“If the Muslims are so afraid then they can bury their heads between the cheeks of my ass and kiss my bunghole, it’s safe there.” I think I haven’t made a mistake.
Joseph says
@ Purushottam Deshmukh
Then comment on the right post.
OK, I take it back…I meant to say “DIRTY” bunghole.
Get a life they want to kill you and YOU ARE worried about what I say?
BTW ass and bunghole are not swears or curses.
This is a war of survival, get used to it.
gravenimage says
Purushottam Deshmukh wrote:
Dear Joseph,
One day all of us shall be gotten rid of these gory idiotic jihadist elements. I request you not to use dirty language for these filthy creatures. Our secular and democratic mindset does not allow us even to dehumanizing the inhuman.
…………………………..
I don’t believe that what Joseph said was “dehumanizing” at all. It seems like an act of defiance in the face of utter savagery, and not out of place.
Perhaps in a perfect world such niceties could be a priority—but right now we have barbaric Jihadists gunning down Marines at recruiting centers, beheading grandmas in their gardens, and rigging infants with explosives in training videos.
Given this, I would rather stand with a staunch Anti-Jihadist like Joseph against such ravening evil than worry about some occasional off-color phrasing. I think this is true of most here.
Joseph says
THANKS graven, yes I am defiant and I will be to the bitter end. To the bitter end because they are not going to back down. Like I said, this is a war of survival, not necessarily for us but for those that come after.
I will never make “nicey nicey” with anyone that wants to see the utter destruction and enslavement of those I love and of those who want to live free. I did not choose this path nor would anyone I know would want to walk down it, but it is forced upon us therefore “so be it”.
katnis says
I would be shocked if anything happened. If history is any indicator, it won’t.
The fastest, simplest, cheapest, most obvious solution is to stop letting the refugees into the country in the first place. Then we won’t have problems with first, second, third, or fourth generation muslims who get the benefits of American citizenship but won’t respect our culture or our laws.
The presidential candidate who proposes that ^ gets my vote.
Shane says
Scott Walker is the only presidential candidate who has stated that we should consider allowing fewer than the current over 1 million immigrants into the USA per year, as far as I know. Walker has also identified the enemy as radical Islamists, something Obama has never done.
duh_swami says
I feel so sorry for the Mahoundian community I could almost cry.
Those poor picked on people. All they need is a little love and your conversion to Islam or else jihad…That’s all they want…well that and sharia, and maybe a few of your daughters…That’s all they want. Is that asking too much?
gravenimage says
Grimly hilarious, Swami.
Papa Whiskey says
Quite a sumptuous mosque there. How many Saudi petrodollars did it take to build it?
dumbledoresarmy says
And it is also perfectly hideous.
It *oozes* in-your-face aggressiveness.
Donovan Nuera says
Their minaret is the schlongiest one I have ever seen! Did the women on the urban planning commission in Chattanooga even see the architectural plans??
John Duffin says
It’s good to be anti-Islam !! http://youtu.be/CJoxVkGHzI0
Jaladhi says
Oh what crocodile tears!! If anybody can believe them – this is what the imam teaches them in the mosque and then surprise, surprise where did this scumbag learnt the radical Islam and how he became a terrorist!! Abulazeez was only practicing Islam taught by Mo/allah himself, outlined in Quran. If Mo did not practice jihad and jihadic murders Islam would have died a quiet death in Arabia a long time ago in the seventh century. And these Muslims in USA and other countries want us to believe Islam is peaceful and it spread peacefully!! Bunch of crock propagated by them our media and academia aided by our leaders!!
Westman says
The problem is the Quran and Islamic Sunnah.
Young men, raised on watered-down Islam, travel to the ME and get exposed to more agressive religious instruction shown to them in their own Quran and quoted from the Sunnah.Then they go back to the West and find the Imams cannot refute it using doctrinal references.
They almost have all three motivators for Jihad that David Wood describes as the Jihad Triangle: Belief, Knowledge, and Obedience.
They didn’t have the Knowledge of their responsibility for physical jihad until leaving the West and getting the “Rest Of The Muhammad Story”. All that is needed is a trigger to cause commitment to Obedience.
For many home-grown jihadists the Knowledge came over the internet and is dispersed among the youth with the same problem: it can’t be refuted by the Imams.
The jihadists know that CAIR is a subterfuge.
Budvarakbar says
Watered down?? — WISE UP!
Alex says
I think he meant that most Muslims are raised in a white washed version of Islam by their families (especially in the West). Most Muslims in the West don’t know much about their own religion or about the so called “Prophet” and his mass murder campaigns. However, once they start to dig into Islamic literature, this is when this could mean trouble.
voegelinian says
Good catch. I’ll have to add “watered-down Islam” to my long list of terms generated mostly by the Counter-Jihad by which to retain — through the back door — the concept of the Moderate Muslim, safely under other labels that don’t have the ridiculous associations that term has.
Angemon says
voegelinian posted:
“Good catch. I’ll have to add “watered-down Islam” to my long list of terms generated mostly by the Counter-Jihad by which to retain — through the back door — the concept of the Moderate Muslim, safely under other labels that don’t have the ridiculous associations that term has.”
Are you feeling all right? Are you really suggesting that “moderate muslim” and “watered down islam” mean one and the same thing?
Michael Copeland says
The assertion that young men are “raised on watered-down Islam” is not borne out by surveys. 80% of mosques in USA were found to be supplying violent material.
voegelinian says
Yep.
silvergreycat says
*The Jihad Triangle*… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjvfaZIDLCg
Westman says
Mosques don’t raise children, that is done by parents; and yes, in the West they are raised on a watered down version that leaves their parents wondering what happened when the children become fundamentalists.
The fundamentalist poll attitudes of Muslim youth didn’t come from their parents. Wise up?
voegelinian says
Nonsense. Westman believes at face value Muslim parents when they shake their heads at their “extremist” children. That’s exactly why Muslims do taqiyya — because it apparently works all too often (even amongst supposedly more informed Counter-Jihad folks…)
voegelinian says
Consider, for example, the dubiously shady underbelly of the Abdulaziz father, who along with his family has publicly expressed their bewilderment and anguish at their son’s actions. As a Daily Mail story reported:
“It grieves us beyond belief to know that his pain found its expression in this heinous act of violence…”
Bassam Issa (named after that Muslim Prophet who all Muslims expect will return again at the Last Day to kill all non-Muslims in a final Jihad to end all Jihads), President of the Islamic Society of Greater Chattanooga, told reporters Friday that the family were shocked by the shooting rampage carried out by [their son].
He said: ‘He [the father] was in the dark on what his son had done. He is very devastated and he actually apologized for what his son did to the community at large and to the Muslim community.’
‘And I told him that we all feel distraught — we all feel shocked — and to basically pray to God that we all as one community come together.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3166920/Chattanooga-gunman-s-family-say-son-suffered-depression.html
I.e., Blah blah blah blah fucking blah. Let the PC MC Mainstream believe every Muslim who expresses moderation like this. Surely, the Counter-Jihad should be made of less forgiving, less guillible, less naive mettle. What we Westerners grant to everyone on Earth — benefit of the doubt — the Counter-Jihad should withhold from Muslims. The Counter-Jihad should assume beforehand that all Muslims are lying to us whenever they claim they don’t hate us and don’t want to subjugate and/or kill us. But, alas, there are all too many Softies in the Counter-Jihad who are more concerned about their ethical narcissism (feeling good about themselves through “not being bigoted”) than they are about the safety of our societies.
Speaking of that Daily Mail article about the Abdulaziz family. They go on to report:
However, his father, who claims to have known nothing about the attack beforehand, was also put on a terror watch list in the past, but was later cleared.
That investigation allegedly had to do with the father’s contributions to a charity and questions about whether the money was being funneled to fund terrorism.
The gunman’s father was reportedly born in the Palestinian territories and had a violent past according to court documents exclusively obtained by DailyMail.com.
In 2009 Abdulazeez’s mother filed for divorce from his father accusing him of shocking attacks on her and the children.
He was accused of physically attacking his wife of 28 years and sexually assaulting her in front of the children. He also wanted to take a second wife under Islamic law.
Such a seamy underside to the public “grief” and compunction of the Abdulaziz family would only surprise the Counter-Jihad Softies. The rest of us already assume the worst about all Muslims.
Angemon says
voegelinian posted:
“Westman believes”
Ah, there it is: voeg’s mind-reading capabilities at full steam.
Western Canadian says
Substantiate your assertion. OR…. Shutup???
gravenimage says
Westman wrote:
Mosques don’t raise children, that is done by parents; and yes, in the West they are raised on a watered down version that leaves their parents wondering what happened when the children become fundamentalists.
The fundamentalist poll attitudes of Muslim youth didn’t come from their parents. Wise up?
………………………………….
This is not always the case, Westman. This Jihadist’s father *claimed* he was bewildered, but the fact is that he is a pious Muslim who beat his wife and children, threatened to marry a second wife (Islamic polygamy), and was himself investigated for ties to Jihad terror.
Often Muslim families expressing “bewilderment” over their Jihadist spawn is no more credible than their Mosques doing the same thing.
voegelinian says
graven and her friend Angemon working at cross purposes…
Angemon says
voegelinian posted:
“graven and her friend Angemon working at cross purposes…”
As usual, you have no response to any sort of criticism. Dull, quite dull…
gravenimage says
Voegelinian, I have always been respectful to you, but you keep taking potshots at me.
I agree with Angemon on many matters—as I do with yourself. I always speak for myself, and not for others. Angemon may agree with my comments to Westman, or he may not.
I never once claimed, nor even implied, that I was posting on his behalf—why would I? I very much doubt that he would expect me to.
I often comment when I am in agreement with your stance, and often defend your views even if I don’t agree with them in all aspects if I believe your position is being unfairly characterized.
But you have made this a thoroughly thankless task.
I notice that you have often singled out myself and Wellington for snide comments. I don’t know about myself, but Wellington is one of the most thoughtful, erudite, and decent posters here, and he is always willing to consider other points of view. That you have such contempt for him says, I believe, more about yourself than it does about him.
Angemon says
gravenimage posted:
“I never once claimed, nor even implied, that I was posting on his behalf—why would I? I very much doubt that he would expect me to.”
You’re correct, GI. I don’t fell entitled to have anyone posting for me, as if somehow people were obliged to do so. I appreciate when you do so – and I don’t remember ever having to tell you “no, no, you got it all wrong” so when you do so you can accurately represent my stance – but that’s as far as it goes. I certainly don’t expect you to do so, nor do I hold it against you if you don’t.
“ I don’t know about myself, but Wellington is one of the most thoughtful, erudite, and decent posters here, and he is always willing to consider other points of view.”
Frankly, I’d be surprised if his opinion of you wasn’t at least reciprocal – I believe he has greatly (and justly) praised you and your ability to parse and comment posts and JW articles.
Champ says
graven and her friend Angemon working at cross purposes…
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Once again voeg is busy burning bridges with dear Graven …
And this is stunning to watch; since voeg, who considers himself somewhat of an expert on the muslim problem and *what* to do about it, cannot figure out how to build bridges with friends within the counter-jihad community on Jihad Watch. Nope, he’s too busy burning bridges to bother with building friendships, etc.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear Graven, voeg is not worth the headache. This is HIS problem, and not yours to fix. In order to be friends with voeg you have to be willing to be enemies with everyone else. These are voeg’s terms, but he won’t admit to this fact. Trust me, I know. And trust me when I say that he is just NOT worth the trouble. Let others defend him. Or let him defend himself. Friendship is a 2-way street, but voeg doesn’t understand this principle. Leave him to his own self-pity. You tried.
Take care, dear friend.
Champ says
“…you have to be willing to be enemies with everyone else.”
Correction …
You have to be willing to be enemies with HIS enemies, not necessarily “everyone else”. I wanted to better clarify what I consider to be true.
Angemon says
Champ posted:
“In order to be friends with voeg you have to be willing to be enemies with HIS enemies”
Pretty much, Champ. And even then I wouldn’t call it “friendship”. I’d call it “islam”, since it’s a relationship based on one party fully submitting to the will, judgment and whims of the other party.
quran 4:65:
But no, by your Lord, they will not [truly] believe until they make you, [O Muhammad], judge concerning that over which they dispute among themselves and then find within themselves no discomfort from what you have judged and submit in [full, willing] submission.
Champ says
And even then I wouldn’t call it “friendship”. I’d call it “islam”, since it’s a relationship based on one party fully submitting to the will, judgment and whims of the other party.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Indeed, Angemon — excellent point!
jewdog says
The NY Times is typical of the left in seeing racism as the only – the only – root of all evil in the world. After all, if racism causes every bad thing, why delve into the contents of Islam itself. That would be racist.
Jaladhi says
Convoluted logic of NYTimes – or rather Islamic logic of NYTimes!!
particolor says
Racist, Schmacist. Islam is not a Race ! Its an Ideological Supremacist CULT ! 🙁
Joseph says
And here I thought it was a race for the largest body/head count.
My bad
voegelinian says
The Left and the PC MCs (two overlapping, yet distinct demographics) are only selectively concerned about “racism” — they only care when white people are supposedly “racist”; meanwhile they turn a blind eye to the rampant, and all too real, racism in Islamic culture.
Champ says
**BREAKING*
Fifth service member dies after Chattanooga shooting
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/18/us/tennessee-naval-reserve-shooting/
gravenimage says
Thanks for that tragic update, Champ.
My thoughts and prayers are with the victims’ families.
God, I hate Islam.
Angemon says
If islamic terror attacks caused 1/100th of the backlash the Confederate flag (unfairly) got, islam would cease to be a problem in the US.
particolor says
Hear Hear !!
Immadiyah says
If there is a mohammed cartoon drawing somewhere on earth there would be mass slaughters of innocent Christians, Jews and other non-muslims in the Islamic country in split seconds. It’s that quick and not having to speculate days on end of when it would happen.
Charli Main says
As I see these situations, the problem is that people are not reacting sufficiently to the increasing number of atrocities committed by muslims in Western countries. Muslims are like jackals, the more they are allowed to get away with the braver they become.
A massive backlash against these muslim vermin, infesting Europe and the USA, is exactly what is required.
Just imagine the kind of backlash that would occur in a muslim country, if a Christian or a Hindu gunned down a Paki—-
If muslims faced that kind of backlash every time one of their community committed a jihadist atrocity, THEY would soon put a stop to all the imams preaching hate and murder in their local mosque.
sinantara says
1999, Ambon, Indonesia. A steady influx of Muslim migrants from South Sulawesi into dominantly Christian Ambon, Province of Maluku, and increasing ethnic tension, and ethnic zoning–the Ambonese accuse the government to favor and facilitating migrants…This happened mostly after Suharto tried to keep in power by building a new power base, ICMI, to woo the support of Islam. As a result, the governor of Maluku, traditionally a Christian, became an ICMI Muslim.
Then a migrant gang member tried to stab an Ambonese cab driver for not paying protection money, and was chased by the cabbies friends. He fled to his neighborhood with the cry, the Christians are trying to kill me! In hours mobs started to attack the Christian neighbor hood. In the US, the police or national reserve would clamp down on it, in Ambon members of police and armed forces backed their co religionists and soon a holy war was declared and jihad’s started to arrive from Java, included some battle hardened Afghanistan veterans and a few Arabs. The conflict took some years and a thousand lives before the people of Ambon, natives and migrants became weary of the blood shed and also the jihadis showed their hand too soon, declaring the Islamic Regioan of Ambon to be ruled by sharia and proving their seriousness by stoning some people for adultery. But the conflict metastized to Poso–where the jihadis needed to behead some school girls before they lost support from local Muslim communities. So they had to go back to the drawing table. Lessons learned, 1. chasing a Muslim for extortion is Islamophobia and will result in a backlash. So just pay. 2. when migrants become 50% you have a civil war on your hands (see also Libanon) . So never ever become a minority 3. As soon as the Muslim party believes it has the upper hand, atrocities will follow, and the peace message shelved. So whether Islam is a religion of peace or religion of war depends on the power balance. But this said, we Indonesians are trying to come up with a reinterpretation–whatever Robert and JW bloggers say, we are stuck with reality and have to make possible the seemingly impossible. But that is what humans do.
Anthony says
@Sinantara,as fellow Indonesia I admire your knowledge of what’s going on in Ambon and analysis about how the power balance will tip how we view Islam. The Islam we have here in Indonesia is more on the moderate side due to its mixing with local wisdom, that how it could be accepted so widely by the population.
But in my opinion, once the money from mideast along with its fundamental view of Islam brought in Indonesia, then we can see how the true nature of Islam, so power balance is not enough to tip the view of Islam. Remember right now Indonesia has the largest Moslem population. But I always pray that it will never happen to this beautiful country !
sinantara says
Yes Antony let’s pray and hope. So many Muslims in this country are acutely unhappy with the situation and the NU has launched a movement called Islam Nusantara… Immediately there where voices questening whether NU was going heretic (bid’ah) which is polite, not so polite is taqfir, toghut, and ultimately kaffir. Luckily NU is a power house and its chairman has a doctorate in tasawuf (sufism), so let’s say, there is hope. I am clinging to my idealism, trying not to become to cynical. So after churches were bombed every Christmass and Eastern churches are cordoned off in layers of security (pure Islamophobia). It was moving that Muslim youngster volunteered to protect churches. Then some Islamic organization tried to stop this because according to this org it exposed the volunteers to sermons and would endanger their faith. We have also the Liberal Islam Network. Then MUI declared liberalism against Islam and mobs started to convey on JIL’s headquarters in Jakarta, and could barely be stopped. Islam came to Indonesia over China (introduced by admiral Cheng Ho or Zheng De, accused by some Javanene of having used Islam to subvert the power of Majapahit, and over India (Gujarat), so it was toned down after going through two cultural filters. Arab traders played actually a minor role. And the dewan da’wah of Demak was really multicultural, having Persian, Chinese, Javanese, Indian and even Central Asian scholars. But indeed, how to stop the Wahabi subversion? If we look at history, only calamity results in significant change, some calamity one sided like conquest. The west became MCPC only after two world wars, genocide and a lot of colonial and post colonial wars. Religious freedom only after the 30 year war. So it seems we have to undergo another calamity. Perhaps ISIS is or still will trigger the calamity to shake up Islam and result in real reformation. But what JW is hammering on, we don’t want to see the truth. However i see a silver lining. Everything Muslims do what is against Judeo Christian morals is said to have nothing to do with Islam, and what is according to Judeo Christian morality is called the real Islam–is that the clue?
gravenimage says
Not all Sufis are “moderates”, either, I’m afraid.
voegelinian says
“Poso–where the jihadis needed to behead some school girls before they lost support from local Muslim communities.”
Do you have proof of the implication here — that local Muslim communities withdrew their support of the jihadist cause because of the beheadings (i.e., because they had a moral, Islamic objection to the beheadings)?
sinantara says
the tribes of Anbar Province needed to be shown naked Islam by Al Quaida before they decided to support the (US backed) government. It is a matter of local culture that works like a filter. That is why Islamic reformation starts with attacking local culture and customs, mostly spearheaded by people coming back from the hajj in a state of culture shock (like the Jerusalem syndrome for Christians). In Lombok was introduced not by an Arab but by a Javanese and accepted conditionally, that local cultural institutions would stay. But in the 50ties and 60ties the haji driven Nahdatul Wathon went from village to village destroying cultural treasures like history records (written on lontar leaves), gamelan instruments (coming from Bali hence denoted Hindu), mosques designed with indigenous architecture (open to the elements), etc etc. I remember an village elder asking in despair, now we know how to recite the quran, so what? We have lost everything else… So many Sasak became psychotic because of reserve culture shock, and one particularly strong factor was the clash between the (remnants of the) indigenous ancestor cult and the belief that one’s ancestors were in hell because being kaffir (although the quran states that those who did not receive Muhammads message are spared hell (so all you Islamologists deserve the seventh level). But my point is, these Muslim communities I mentioned where traditional ones with a minimum number of hajji’s and petro dollars sponsored mosques. So we are badly in need of going off the oil–in Holland there is a saying wiens brood men eet diens woord men spreekt.
Anthony says
@sinantara, if we have to filter or use local culture to filter Islam, so you are basically saying that there’s something inheritly wrong with it ?
gravenimage says
sinantara wrote:
(although the quran states that those who did not receive Muhammads message are spared hell
………………………..
Well, that’s *one* way to interpret Qur’an 17:15: “… never would We punish until We sent a messenger”.
Unfortunately, Muslims claim that there have been a line of warners, which includes all the “prophets”.
The next Suras, 17:16-17, read: And when We intend to destroy a city, We command its affluent but they defiantly disobey therein; so the word comes into effect upon it, and We destroy it with [complete] destruction.
And how many have We destroyed from the generations after Noah. And sufficient is your Lord, concerning the sins of His servants, as Acquainted and Seeing.
…
This doesn’t sound very merciful, I;m afraid.
Joseph says
@ gravenimage
And how many have We destroyed from the generations after Noah. And sufficient is your Lord, concerning the sins of His servants, as Acquainted and Seeing.
_________________________________________________
I know you are better at this than I am so the question is; If they figure that the flood happened @ 2350BC and MO is at 600AD how can they state this. Is it because they are trying to tie into Abraham? If that is the case then how can they dismiss the Trinity?
THANK YOU for your help, I’m a little confused here
BTW I do know that they say my Bible is corrupted that is the reason for the Koran.
voegelinian says
Notice that sinantara in his July 19, 2015 at 9:25 pm answer to me did not answer my question — but did post over 250 words not answering my question.
gravenimage says
Joseph wrote:
I know you are better at this than I am so the question is; If they figure that the flood happened @ 2350BC and MO is at 600AD how can they state this. Is it because they are trying to tie into Abraham? If that is the case then how can they dismiss the Trinity?
THANK YOU for your help, I’m a little confused here
BTW I do know that they say my Bible is corrupted that is the reason for the Koran.
…………………………….
Hi Joseph. I’m not an expert on the texts of Islam as is Robert Spencer, but I’ll give you my take.
As you know, one of the most common points in the Qur’an and Hadith is the damnation of Infidels and their condemnation to hell. The ruins of whole civilizations in Dark Ages Arabia are held to have no other purpose than to serve as warnings for Muslims.
Given this, the idea that all Infidels born before the time of the “Prophet” being exempt because they have not received Islam does not hold water.
As you note, Muslims hold that the Bible was “corrupted”, and somehow previously in no way contradicted the Qur’an. Of course, Muslims have never found any such book, but this is not something they care much about. The only points of interest for them is that 1) the message of Islam dates back to Adam; and 2) Jews and Christians turned their back on Islam, unlike Muslims.
And yes—Muslims are trying to tie into Abraham and every other prophetic figure of the Bible, from Adam to Noah to Abraham to Moses to Jesus. Few of the Muslim versions of these figures have much to do with the Biblical figures at all, and are seldom more than two-dimensional.
Part and parcel of this is the Muslim view of the Trinity—they are obsessed with “Tawhid”, the oneness and uniqueness of “Allah”. They wrongly assume that belief in the Trinity represents some sort of “polytheism”.
But then, the Muslim “Jesus”—”Isa”—even more than the other figures of the Bible is really nothing like Jesus Christ. It is not just that he is not the Son of God or that the never died on the cross—he is no savior, and is not a healer or a peacemaker. Instead, his role in the last days, perversely, is to murder any Christian who does not convert to Islam.
Hope this was helpful.
Joseph says
@ gravenimage
Thank-you and yes that helped. There is a lot of information in your post so I will have to read it for a 3rd and 4th time.
I have come to one conclusion though, Mo should have studied the Bible better to make his garbage more palatable. OOOOWWWW that’s right, he couldn’t read. Kind of like those instructions you are supposed to follow when you assemble something and you have parts left over. Mo’s assembly is missing a hell of a lot of (major)parts
gravenimage says
sinantara wrote:
But the conflict metastized to Poso–where the jihadis needed to behead some school girls before they lost support from local Muslim communities.
…………………………..
I wish I could believe that local Muslims rejected violence against Infidels after this atrocity, sinantara—unfortunately, reports do not seem to support this view.
Instead, local Muslims appear to have been *inspired* by the horrific beheadings. Other Christian schoolgirls were shot, some young Christian women were attacked with machetes, and a Christian market was bombed, injuring 70 people. More bombings followed.
Moreover, local government openly welcomed Jihadists.
And what about the average local Muslim? Here’s one interview, with the journalist asking about a Jihad flag flying nearby:
Do you recognise it?’ asks Usman, the youngest man, smiling at the flag. ‘It’s been there for years. Nobody seems to want to take it down. We’re not terrorists, but we have little respect for Christians. Indonesia should be an Islamic country without the impurities of Christianity or Hinduism. There are no churches here. The beheadings of these schoolgirls suits the Christians. Perhaps they did it to show Muslims as monsters.’
This doesn’t exactly seem indicative of either rejection of violent Jihad or sympathy for its victims, I’m afraid.
“Machete killings fuel Indonesia’s religious hatred”
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/nov/20/indonesia.theobserver
abad says
That terrorist-training center should be closed down by the government. Screw CAIR.
Liam1304 says
So the newspaper established as an organ of Disinformation by the Communists during the Cold War rolls on fulfilling its Mission well after the Eastern Bloc has collapsed.
A symptom or a cause?
rubiconrest says
Dear Richard Fausset and Laurie Goodstein of the NY Times:
Since the Quran has over 100 versus calling upon Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islam does the Society of Greater Chattanooga have any handouts or examples of what they are doing to counter these sayings in the Quran? Are these versus old fashioned or considered old interpretations? I wish you would ask these question the next time you interview the imam.
Dan says
They can solve it all…
By turning into the police any and all attendees they ever heard utter a radical word, or exhibited radical behavior.
THAT would be proof enough for the rest of us infidels to believe there Muslims who want to fit into our society.
I’ve said several times.
Much as I love me dear sweet sainted mother, if I found out she was building bombs in the basement, I’d visit her in prison, but I’d turn her in so fast…
Kasey says
Who is this professor trying to kid. He didn’t need anyone to do it, he just read The Koran for all the directives…and that’s just what he did as ordered!
Cecilia Ellis says
“It was Eid al-Fitr, at the end of Ramadan, normally a time of gift-giving and carnival celebration.”
– And slaughtering . . .
mortimer says
Muslims are PHOBIC about being the object of ANY CRITICISM WHATSOEVER whether merited or not.
Muslims are totally in disagreement with freedom of expression.
mortimer says
Mr. Coulibaly said he was concerned about retaliation, adding, “We know we have a lot of people not being happy.”…
Exactly. Muslims believe STRONGLY IN RETALIATION…but they are uncivilized.
Civilized people believe STRONGLY in due process of the law.
gravenimage says
New York Times: Mosque of Chattanooga jihad killer braces for backlash
…………………………
Who cares about all those dead Infidels? Someone may leave a slice of bacon on the Mosque’s doorknob? Actually, even this is unlikely. The “backlash” is pretty much mythical—but gets trotted out every time Muslims butcher some “filthy Kuffar”.
And why not? It takes the focus off the murderous Muslims, and gets Infidels to scramble to assure “believers’ that there will be no backlash. It also shifts Infidels’ attention from their own losses at the hands of Muslims, and tries to inflict a sense of unearned guilt, instead.
This cynical bs has proven all too effective—which is why both Muslims and useful idiot dhimmis continue to go through this false drama.
More:
Ihsan Bagby, an associate professor of Islamic studies at the University of Kentucky, spoke of “the shock that there’s a kid who seems to grow up in the shadow of the Muslim community and yet chooses a path of extremism and violence that nobody taught them in the community. It’s a betrayal of the community.”
…………………………
Notice how Muslims *always* focus on themselves? Apparently pious Muslims butchering the very Infidels who gave them sanctuary isn’t a betrayal; it’s just a problem if it might inconvenience other Muslims.
By the way, Ihsan Bagby has links to ISNA and CAIR, which are Muslim Brotherhood fronts. He has said, “Ultimately we [Muslims] can never be full citizens of this country [the U.S.] because there is no way we can be fully committed to the institutions and ideologies of this country.”
In other words, Muslims are not real Americans.
More:
Notice that the New York Times doesn’t ask the people at the Islamic Society of Greater Chattanooga or anywhere else what programs that have in place or are instituting in order to make sure that there won’t be any more young misunderstanders of Islam like Mohammad Youssuf Abdulazeez. The assumption that he must have learned his violent Islam somewhere other than inside the mosque he attended is taken for granted by the Paper of Record, without investigation or even a single question.
…………………………
Of course—to suggest otherwise would be “Islamophobic”…
More:
CHATTANOOGA, Tenn. — Just beyond a massive strip mall, with its Best Buy and Hobby Lobby, Abdul Baasit, the imam at the Islamic Society of Greater Chattanooga, found himself preaching on Friday about a nightmare.
It was Eid al-Fitr, at the end of Ramadan, normally a time of gift-giving and carnival celebration…
…………………………
Notice they don’t tell you what this Eid *really* celebrates—the first Muslim victory over Infidels.
More:
But the party that had been planned was canceled: A man who had attended prayer services at the center’s mosque killed four Marines on Thursday. And Mr. Baasit, 48, was trying to help Chattanooga’s Muslim faithful cope with their grief over the deaths, and their fear of reprisal.
“You do not want what is not right to be associated with Islam,” Mr. Baasit, a native of Ghana, said in lilting, heavily accented English. “And yet it is happening.”…
…………………………
Well, *that’s* vague. Traditionally what is considered “not right” by Muslims includes refraining from waging violent JIhad. You can’t expect the average audience of hopeful Infidels to know that, though…
More:
…Then the Tennessee General Assembly took up legislation in 2011 that sought to outlaw the practice of Shariah, or Islamic law, making it punishable by 15 years in jail.
…………………………
Notice how this posits opposition to the oppressive and sanguinary horror of Shari’ah to be of a piece with vandalism. They are hoping that most Americans will have no idea what Shari’ah truly is.
More:
At Friday Prayer, some members said they were indeed nervous that the shooting could provoke bad feelings.
…………………………
No criticism of the shootings themselves; just that some Infidels might become concerned about Muslim violence…
More:
Mr. Coulibaly said he was concerned about retaliation, adding, “We know we have a lot of people not being happy.”…
…………………………
Why aren’t Infidels happy bout the murder of these Marines? If they were proper dhimmis, they would never indicate that they weren’t happy…
RG says
“You do not want what is not right to be associated with Islam,” Mr. Baasit, a native of Ghana, said…” Oh my, heaven forbid that the IMAGE of Shitslam should be besmirched!
My Lord Almighty, can’tcha just see the big crocodile tears!?
And there you have it, folks–guess what this scumsucker POS is worried about here…. the grieving families of the servicemen??? No…. Ahh, ahh, the suffering of the men who were killed??? No…. NO, HE’S WORRIED ABOUT TAKING A BAD RAP FOR THE PEDOPHILE FALSE PROPHET!!!! Yeah, that surely must trump anything else, like for example, HAVING TAUGHT HIS MOSQUE ATTENDEES HOW TO COMMIT VIOLENT MURDER IN COLD BLOOD!!!!!
Oh yeah, every mosque on the face of planet earth is a jihadi terrorist training center, bar none!!!!
don vito says
How do the people of the mosk brace for backlash? It’s never been explained. Maybe they piggyback on to some other issue.
Jeff says
I’m really getting sick of all this infidelophobia.
kay says
Re: “I’m really getting sick of all this infidelophobia.”
Bril!
Yeah, yeah. You just taught me something really really useful Jeff. Am gonna use that. A lot.
I hope to get great leverage hammering on the collaborationists with this phrase of yours.
It’s like a really powerful judo counter-throw. I wanna use it right now.
I would buy you a chocolate brownie or a beer or something. Wish I’d come up with that!
I have a new tool to use. In-fidel-ophobia. It has a good ring. You made my day.
tgusa says
The troubles of the middle east have been brought to America without the American peoples approval. Those responsible must pay. Sorry, no not really, they or their friends and family must pay for their horrific crimes against the American people. Thankfully we Americans as a population are a generally peaceful people because that is good for humanity. However, when segments of the worlds humanity go psycho cities burn, When Americans and her international friends finally get tired of all of that, continents burn.
kay says
https://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2015/03/30/how-muslim-brotherhood-operates-in-tennessee-part-1-of-8/
How Muslim Brotherhood Operates in Tennessee (Part 1 of 8)
Posted on March 30, 2015 by creeping
via Tennesse Council 4 Political Justice.
Guest speakers known to be radical Islamists have been brought to Tennessee with messages like “Islam is better than democracy” and that under sharia law “the kafir [non-Muslims] won’t be equal with the Muslim.”
Deeds to some Tennessee mosques list Muslim Brotherhood front groups. Imams preaching inside the mosques are trained in Saudi Arabia where the strictest form of sharia law is practiced or are trained at Al-Azhar University in Egypt, which is credited with starting the Islamic Muslim Brotherhood movement, promoting Islam and sharia as a complete way of life.
Tennessee even has a mosque whose mortgage is held by an organization working on behalf of the Iranian government.
Jack Holan says
The NYTimes with the help of organizations like CAIR always try to create an atmosphere of impending Islamaphoebe after a terrorist act committed by a Muslim. Where are there the facts to support this allegation? It surely isn’t in the 2013 FBI Compilation of Statistics of Discrimination/Incidents. However each and every time CAiR the FEAR MONGER comes out predicting ACTUALLY DEFLECTING ACTIONS and flipping them back.
dumbledoresarmy says
What *should* have happened is that the instant that it was known to the Authorities in Tennessee, which mosque it was that the jihadist murderer and his family usually attended, that mosque – and all associated premises whether private or commercial, most especially not excluding this imam Abdul Baasit’s own house – should have been surprise-searched with deployment of overwhelming force. Swoop; and go through all buildings, grounds and vehicles, from top to bottom, with the finest of fine tooth combs, making use of army sappers and engineers, and sniffer dogs trained to detect drugs, explosives, and cadavers, and *assuming* that there may be booby traps, false floors, false ceilings, hidden safes, the works. The US Marines could have been called in to assist or even to lead the raid – or raids; the Marines now have a huuuuge bone to pick with the Ummah or mohammedan mob. Find anything dodgy? – shut the place down (and bulldoze it flat), apply jail sentences to the max wherever American law has been breached, then prepare the deportations.
And the US Marines should have been the ones conducting the interrogations of Mr Abdul Baasit and any other prominent persons associated with the mosque, and of the perp’s family members.
Might also be worthwhile investigating whatever mosques and Muslim student organisations/ associations are operating on the university campus where the jihadi murderer studied electrical engineering.
The Doctor says
I wonder how many infidels they would have to rape or kill in order to “cleanse” the mosque after being “defiled” by the sniffer dogs?
Nimrod says
Anyone who is a “associate professor of Islamic studies” knows EXACTLY how and why this happened.
Isabella says
Every time a Muslim kills in a terrorist act the mosque that the slime ball is associated with presses on the victim button. Pressing on the victim button is useful as a strategy to push away the attention from the real dangerous ones: the people who teaches the Muslims to hate and kill the Non-Muslims.
Tim Arnold says
They have been doing this since Mohammad. Muslims know this! We know that Muslims know this. So, why do they continue to pretend. All I have to say is, “Muslims, enjoy your time in the sun, because America will vomit out its socialist Muslim president in 2016. “