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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Salman Rushdie: world learned “wrong lessons” from his Iran fatwa

Jul 23, 2015 10:51 am By Robert Spencer

Rushdie“The writer said that the controversy that surrounded the PEN prize to Charlie Hebdo this year convinced him that, if the attacks against ‘The Satanic Verses’ had occurred today, ‘these people would not come to my defence and would use the same arguments against me by accusing me of insulting an ethnic and cultural minority.'” Indeed so. That was what happened after our free speech event in Garland, Texas: the international media, including many “conservatives” such as Bill O’Reilly and Laura Ingraham, excoriated Pamela Geller and declared that she should have shown more “respect” — which really meant that she should have submitted in fear, as they were doing.

The freedom of speech is seriously imperiled, and most Americans have bought into the idea that “hate speech,” which they assume to be an entity that can be objectively established, does not deserve protection. They have no idea that they’re thereby paving the way for authoritarianism and totalitarianism.

“Salman Rushdie says the world learned the ‘wrong lessons’ from his Iran fatwa ordeal,” Agence France-Presse, July 22, 2015:

More than a quarter century after being slapped with a fatwa fromIran [sic] calling for his murder over his book “The Satanic Verses”, Salman Rushdie says the world has learned the “wrong lessons” about freedom of expression.

The British author, in an interview published Wednesday by the French news magazine L’Express, said his ordeal by religious fanatics determined to violently avenge what they construed as blasphemy should have served as a wake-up call to the world.

Instead, after the September 11, 2001 attack on America and the massacre in Paris in January this year of cartoonists and staff at the Charlie Hebdo satirical weekly, and with the ongoing rampage of the brutal Islamic State group in the Middle East, Rushdie said some writers and other people were too cowed to talk freely about Islam.

“It seems we learned the wrong lessons,” he said in the interview printed in French. “Instead of concluding we need to oppose these attacks on freedom of expression, we believed we should calm them through compromises and ceding.”

The “politically correct” positions voiced by some — including a few prominent authors who disagreed with Charlie Hebdo receiving a freedom of speech award at a PEN literary gala in New York in May — were motivated by fear, Rushdie said.

– ‘Fear disguised as respect’ –

“If people weren’t being killed right now, if bombs and Kalashnikovs weren’t speaking today, the debate would be very different. Fear is being disguised as respect,” he said….

The writer said that the controversy that surrounded the PEN prize to Charlie Hebdo this year convinced him that, if the attacks against “The Satanic Verses” had occurred today, “these people would not come to my defence and would use the same arguments against me by accusing me of insulting an ethnic and cultural minority”….

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Filed Under: blasphemy, Featured, free speech, Muhammad cartoons Tagged With: Salman Rushdie


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Comments

  1. Beagle says

    Jul 23, 2015 at 11:12 am

    That people do not learn from the lessons of history is the most important lesson history can teach.

    — paraphrasing Aldous Huxley

    • umbra says

      Jul 23, 2015 at 11:27 am

      … and then there are those who preferred to rewrite history instead of learning from it.

      • Georg says

        Jul 23, 2015 at 11:49 am

        And those who willfully refuse it for their own ends.

  2. Tequila Not Taqiyya says

    Jul 23, 2015 at 11:15 am

    Exactly right, he would be crucified if it happened today.

    I sense that the tide maybe slowly turning in this regard, but the signs I think I am seeing may just be wishful-thinking. I have been disappointed so many time before.

    However it does seem more of us are speaking out. That is a very good thing.

  3. epistemology says

    Jul 23, 2015 at 11:16 am

    Salman Rushdie is so right, the Western world has deteriorated to a bunch of cowards. I can’t fathom how they can show respect to these barbaric monsters. Freedom of speech is our greatest political achievement. Never show respect to people who don’t deserve it. There is only one lesson we can learn from the Rushdie affair. Never surrender. Right now we’re allowing muzzies to define our language, to define terms like hate speech and blasphemy. That’s our business, we define our language. If we let them do it, we surrender our culture which is far superior to their stone age civilisation.

    BTW “The Satanic Verses” is an excellent book, superbly written people should be grateful they can read it. It’s a disgrace for the Western world, this debate has been going on for 26 years and nothing learned.

    • Georg says

      Jul 23, 2015 at 11:32 am

      The very notion that Islam must be respected is at the root of much of this; toppling this premise of neoleftists will require a confrontation and not a conversation.

  4. Jay Boo says

    Jul 23, 2015 at 11:20 am

    The intelligentsia will bash Israel.
    They will mock Christianity while displaying their ‘intellect’ like peacocks in search of a hen.
    Yet, they will babble with PC diversions about the true meaning of the Satanic Verses and Muhammad’s claim of being a prophet.

    • Georg says

      Jul 23, 2015 at 11:36 am

      Exactly right. His assertion that it is fear masquerading as respect is spot on. These people do NOT have the courage of their convictions and are thus sanctimonious and contemptible as they dare to criticize others for pursuing what they are too frightened to do even though it is their nominal credo. Shame on them. Not only will they not confront the issue but will make it difficult for those who do — how lowly!

  5. afrostreetwise says

    Jul 23, 2015 at 11:23 am

    I ask to be off topic.
    I salute all Americans. Your Chief executive H.E prezzo Obama is headed this way and will be arriving sometime tomorrow. We are already seeing signs of his visit. Huge boeing v-22 helicopters passed yesterday directly over my house( from kenyatta university where they landed). I and millions more were awed and we expect to see more.
    However, our parliament majority leader Hassan Duale has grossly insulted we kenyans, especially we Christians and christian Mps by steadfastly refusing to release a list of alshabaab supporting moslems. They are threatening to remove him. But he doeasnt even bother. Remember, 147 university students were isolated on religious grounds and massacred. Amazing, our Christian prezzo is silent about it! Yet more non muslems workers have been murdered in the same region! He is said to be the 3rd most powerful person in Kenya. He belongs to president’s party!
    Do you think Obama will have one on one with our prezzo and advise him to do something? Solution?
    ON A VERY SERIOUS NOTE, I need assistance to vie for 2017 August elections for member of parliament. AM ABSOLUTELY SURE, $100k . is enough to organize a victorious campaign. Our illiterate people here worship money, hence our poverty. I need to correct this s**t.

    • Joseph says

      Jul 23, 2015 at 11:57 am

      AM ABSOLUTELY SURE, $100k . is enough to organize a victorious campaign.
      ___________________________________________________________

      Why don’t you ask OL’Bozo the clown himself before he gives all of our country away. Time is short so you better hurry.
      OR
      If you deposit $1,000,0000 into my account I would find it easy to get a 100k to you sometime soon. Don’t worry I’m a prince here and I keep my word. I will also invest your money into our lottery.

      • afrostreetwise. says

        Jul 23, 2015 at 12:30 pm

        I understand u pal. I didnt mean the support to be in cash but in logistical expense support. Preferably, those with representation here (church, NGO, companies etc ) to manage the funds. Donor/sponsor would also continuosly asses progress. Any one there. Your own sept 11 sank my upstart company as airlines increased trading securitydeposit and near maniacal security procedures. Thant sank me. More verifiable detailscan be provided.. thks

      • afrostreetwise says

        Jul 23, 2015 at 2:00 pm

        Thks pal. I see where u coming from and absolutly cant blame you or anyone with such attitude. The scum of the earth have pervaded nearly all our spaces for supporting honour, integrity and rightous anger. What space in your heart do you have for a 4 year old muzzie considering by sharia law, its a muslim and, like most posters here at @ JW like to state (with high degree of accuracy), its hard to distinguish a moderate from a jihadist moslem? So would u rather treat it as jihadist? (Pls ignore babies in ISIS ME. They can be turned into one using a few straps, satanic heart, and a grenade)

    • Kepha says

      Jul 23, 2015 at 1:26 pm

      Afrostreetwise, I hate to break it to you, but the O is coming to your country to tell you (a) accommodate groups like alshabab and (b) you are backwards, primitive, and unworthy of respect because your country sees marriage as a heterosexual thing.

      That is what these United States of America have come to: bowing and scraping before hairy thugs who invoke the god of Malcolm Little X and picking on smaller countries that can muster more common sense in one rural school child than we can in five of our nine Supreme Court justices.

      You’re hearing this from a guy who was actually proud to serve as a US diplomat back in 1989-95.

      • afrostreetwise says

        Jul 23, 2015 at 1:46 pm

        Thks Kepha.
        We already know about (b) and thats where the Land of your Presidents father is at variance with him. Some big U.S embassy staff has clearly and publicily( on media) stated that to be on the agenda. Ofcourse the church and us ordinary mortals are making noise.
        BTW if u JW wanted to light a field full of weeds alight, does it matter from which side the its ignited first? Yourself, your neighbour or the neighbour further a field?

        • Kepha says

          Jul 24, 2015 at 11:07 pm

          Afrostreetwise, play the anti-imperialist card for all its worth.

  6. kessler says

    Jul 23, 2015 at 11:33 am

    I’m glad to hear that Salman Rushdie has not caved in after all these years. He is still a strong advocate for free speech. But who is actually listening? It seems supporters for free speech are a minority these days – and increasingly so. The people who should listen and take note of comments from people like Rushdie are those who don’t understand the consequences of giving in to those fighting for the installation of Sharia blasphemy laws. What does it take for them to wake up? Frustratingly, the more jihad attacks we endure, the more they bury their heads in the sand. Is it fear, political correctness, stupidity, indifference or all of those? I’m still not sure although I have regular discussions with them in the attempt to educate them. Frustratingly, the more truth you speak to them – and as they run out of arguments – the more likely they are to dismiss you as an “islamophobic, bigotted racist” rather than taking on board what you tell them. Frustrating, but as most of you here, I will keep fighting.

    • t. says

      Jul 23, 2015 at 11:59 pm

      ”Frustrating, but as most of you here, I will keep fighting”

      I totally understand and identify with what you’re saying, Kessler, because I am doing and facing exactly what you explained above.

      Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

  7. Jaladhi says

    Jul 23, 2015 at 11:34 am

    I think the Western media and leaders are just plain cowards and because this they don’t speak the truth. The cover of PCMC is just a sham to protect them and give them this false sense of moral superiority compared to a regular citizen who speaks the truth.

  8. Angemon says

    Jul 23, 2015 at 11:36 am

    Fear is being disguised as respect,” he said….

    Pretty much sums it up.

  9. wildjew says

    Jul 23, 2015 at 11:51 am

    When I first heard Laura Ingraham would be syndicated here on our regional radio program, was eager to hear her. I thought she was an intrepid warrior. I was mistaken. A while back I came across an interview she did with Robert Spencer in the aftermath of the 2013 Boston Marathon bombing. Ingraham cautioned Spencer that we should not paint with a broad brush, referring to Islam and the imperative to wage jihad. Further she gave Spencer and the audience a personal anecdote. A Muslim friend assured her (paraphrasing) “this is not who we are…this is not what we believe,” etc. Ingraham’s priority is illegal (largely Mexican) immigration, an important issue to be sure. If Pamela’s contest had drawn attention to the porous Mexican border, Ingraham would have been all in.

  10. Voytek Gagalka says

    Jul 23, 2015 at 12:07 pm

    Let me remind everybody that one of the first men who predicted coming of that dark ages era of “political correctness” as far as Islam is concerned was no one else but Leonard Peikoff, a well known Objectivist philosopher. It was him who, knowing full well the state of educational system, barely 2 weeks after attack on 911 predicted that NOTHING will come from that mainly euphoric initial stage of criticism, about who attacked us and why, that it will soon be subdued, squashed, dominated by “official interpretation” of the mainstream media, and betrayal of elite intellectuals.

    • revereridesagain says

      Jul 23, 2015 at 2:36 pm

      Peikoff also sounded the alarm over the initial abandonment of Salman Rushdie by the leftist “intellectuals” back in the 80s when the fatwa was first imposed. He correctly identified it as an early warning that the First Amendment was imperiled.

      More than 25 years after that fatwa and nearly 15 after 9/11/01 it is frightening to speculate about what might finally break through the “official interpretation” and bring the West to full awareness of this existential danger we face. People tend to try to ignore those until that option has been exhausted and the volcano is erupting right over their heads.

  11. Theodoric says

    Jul 23, 2015 at 12:16 pm

    Recently reported theolinguistic evidence indicates that the so-called “Prophet” Muhammad was actually a DINOSAUR. Doesn’t it seem quite likely that there will be a massive exodus of Muhammadans from Islam when this fact becomes common knowledge?

    Muhammasaurus Rasulex:

    * Last of the Prophets among the Dinosaurs

    * Last of the Dinosaurs among the Prophets

    https://drawthevileprophet.wordpress.com/2015/05/09/scholars-are-asking-was-the-prophet-muhammad-actually-a-dinosaur/

  12. Sam says

    Jul 23, 2015 at 12:34 pm

    “Salman Rushdie: world learned “wrong lessons” from his Iran fatwa”

    Now I truly know what “history repeats itself” means. New generations forget or don’t want to know what happened in the past and they do the same mistakes their ancestors did over and over. That is why we still have Islam on earth and Obama and Kerry and Iran and Isis and Saudi Arabia and on and on. That is why we need God’s intervention soon I hope.

  13. BW022 says

    Jul 23, 2015 at 1:19 pm

    I guess we have to hope that the Internet and modern technology can save us?

    The media made themselves targets when they didn’t ban together. They should have printed passages of the Satanic Verses world-wide when the fatwa was issued. They should have immediately shown the Danish cartoons, clips of Theo van Gogh’s works, the Charlie Hebdo cartoons, etc. And they should keep publishing them every time any journalist, station, or paper was threatened. They could have easily made it counter productive to target any individual or group. Ok… they didn’t and thus the few who did became obvious targets and those targeting them knew that such tactics would work.

    So… can the Internet, social media, cell phones, blogs, etc. work? Will the general public just get tired of this and start posting such things themselves? Make so many sites, blogs, FB groups, videos, etc. that the majority of people can appreciate what they have lost? Will the next round of speech restrictions wake the general population up to where this is leading?

  14. voegelinian says

    Jul 23, 2015 at 2:19 pm

    “‘these people would not come to my defence and would use the same arguments against me by accusing me of insulting an ethnic and cultural minority.’” — Salman Rushdie [emphasis added]

    An ethnic minority. Most astute observation by Rushdie. He recognizes, unlike some in the Counter-Jihad, that the Western mainstream which remains woefully remiss in its obligation to wake up and smell the Islamic coffee does so in great part because it is racializing the issue.

    Yes, unlike some in the Counter-Jihad — e.g., long-time Jihad Watch readers Angemon and Phillip Jihadski, who have attacked me countless times in different Jihad Watch comments threads for saying, and analytically developing, the point Rushdie is making here (and perhaps by their silence, also certain other Jihad Watch readers who have failed to come to the defense of my position during these countless attacks on it — indeed, occasionally siding with Angemon and Phillip Jihadski). Indeed, recently Angemon chided me for this very point when I made it for the umpteenth time (viz., that the Problem of the Problem is that the Western mainstream continues to racialize the primary Problem of Islam), and he insisted that “regular people” don’t racialize the issue – an obtuse and incoherent red herring, when we are talking about a mainstream West which is myopic to the problem of Islam and we are trying to understand why; we are not talking about “regular people”, unless “regular people” are responsible for this colossal myopia to the problem of Islam which we in the Counter-Jihad daily lament. And if “regular people” are not racializing the issue of Islam, they most likely belong to the small beleaguered minority of Counter-Jihad folks (including myself) who are, alas, not part of the Western mainstream which continues to set the unofficial, albeit prevailing PC MC worldview, and the more official policies vis-à-fucking-vis the problem of Islam which flow from that prevailing worldview.

    • Champ says

      Jul 23, 2015 at 3:13 pm

      voeg presents yet another episode to his tiresome soap opera ..”Voeg’s Woe’s”, or maybe these are invites to his latest pity party? Perhaps both.

      • Joseph says

        Jul 23, 2015 at 9:40 pm

        😉

    • voegelinian says

      Jul 23, 2015 at 3:55 pm

      For intelligent readers who care to explore further my point (particularly about Angemon’s “regular people” red herring), they should zero in on —

      http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/07/fifty-muslim-girls-taken-from-uk-to-somalia-for-fgm/comment-page-1#comment-1270821

      — then appropriately scroll up, and down, to widen the focus on this sub-issue — a sub-issue that needn’t be this complex and spread out, but for the rabbit-hole sophistry of Angemon making it so (and believe me, were I to engage him more fully on all his rabbit-trails, he would make it mushroom into staggeringly voluminous proportions).

      Or readers can just be a brainless cheerleader for the Angemon/Jihadski Team, and let their team-player Angemon (who evidently enjoys using his analytical skills on incessant Friendly Fire) do all the work.

      • voegelinian says

        Jul 23, 2015 at 4:00 pm

        Here’s my impression of Angemon:

        “and let their team-player Angemon (who evidently enjoys using his analytical skills on incessant Friendly Fire) do all the work.”

        [Then proceed to construct a voluminous comment of 500 words about my many analytical essays critiquing Messrs. Spencer and Fitzgerald — a voluminous construction built upon the obtuse and mean-spirited red herring/straw man that fails to factor in the distinction between “friendly fire” in the bad sense, and constructive criticism; and most certainly would not provide evidence for the implication that those analytical essays of mine were not the latter but rather the former.]

        My Chris Walken isn’t that bad either.

        • Champ says

          Jul 23, 2015 at 6:38 pm

          voeg wrote:

          “…a voluminous construction built upon the obtuse and mean-spirited red herring/straw man that fails to factor in the distinction between “friendly fire” in the bad sense” …

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Another double-standard alert, courtesy voeg …

          Here he mentions that someone else is being “mean-spirited” and engaging in “friendly-fire”, when in fact voeg just referred to me as a “brainless cheerleader” …

          voeg wrote:

          “Or readers can just be a brainless cheerleader for the Angemon/Jihadski Team” …

          Of course voeg is referring to me, since I’m the only one on that particular thread (the one voeg posted) who came to Angemon’s defense.

          And not only is voeg demonstrating another double-standard, but hes also presented the height of hypocrisy, above, by pointing out what he considers “mean-spirited” comments from someone else, when just moments before that, he stated something *very* mean-spirited himself about me. Wow.

        • Angemon says

          Jul 23, 2015 at 9:34 pm

          Champ posted:

          “Another double-standard alert, courtesy voeg …

          Here he mentions that someone else is being “mean-spirited” and engaging in “friendly-fire”, when in fact voeg just referred to me as a “brainless cheerleader” …

          voeg wrote:

          “Or readers can just be a brainless cheerleader for the Angemon/Jihadski Team” …

          Of course voeg is referring to me, since I’m the only one on that particular thread (the one voeg posted) who came to Angemon’s defense.”

          That was my deduction as well, Champ. He knows you’re a girl so he went for “brainless cheerleader” instead of anything gender-independent. He has proven to be far more ill-spirited and insulting than anyone he complains about, and he mostly does so in a underhanded way, while pretending to be squeakily clean.

        • Angemon says

          Jul 23, 2015 at 9:21 pm

          voegelinian posted:

          “Here’s my impression of Angemon:”

          This is the kind of attitude we’d expect from a 5-year-old throwing a tantrum. “That big meanie disagrees with me, he is fat and stupid and he goes like this: ‘Hi, I’m a big meanie and I’m fat and stupid, herp derp’ “.

          You should know better by now, but you don’t. Why you feel you need to dedicate a couple of posts on JW to make personal, childish attacks on someone else when you have your own blog (two, in fact, one solely dedicated to attacking JW contributors and commentators) is beyond me.

          “[Then proceed to construct a voluminous comment of 500 words about my many analytical essays critiquing Messrs. Spencer and Fitzgerald — a voluminous construction built upon the obtuse and mean-spirited red herring/straw man that fails to factor in the distinction between “friendly fire” in the bad sense, and constructive criticism; and most certainly would not provide evidence for the implication that those analytical essays of mine were not the latter but rather the former.]”

          Here’s the thing: I have yet to see you consider any criticism of you as being constructive, nor have I seen you consider criticism you make as anything else but constructive criticism that should be given the highest level of importance. In reality, your alleged “constructive criticism” is so off-the-mark and based on erroneous interpretations that every once in a while you get told that to your face:

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/06/reza-aslan-claims-anti-fascist-pope-pius-xi-was-a-fascist#comment-1078602

          In fact, you do your “constructive criticism” so often that Robert Spencer himself believes that you act like that out of a personal dislike of him:

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/05/jihadis-dont-show-up-at-phoenix-mosque-protest-so-no-one-gets-hurt/comment-page-1#comment-1245774

          “My Chris Walken isn’t that bad either.”

          If you say so, voeg – although I suspect no one would ever tell you otherwise because they know how you react to criticism.

        • Champ says

          Jul 23, 2015 at 9:53 pm

          Angemon wrote:

          That was my deduction as well, Champ. He knows you’re a girl so he went for “brainless cheerleader” instead of anything gender-independent. He has proven to be far more ill-spirited and insulting than anyone he complains about, and he mostly does so in a underhanded way, while pretending to be squeakily clean.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Thank you, Angemon. Yes, it’s obvious that voeg was directing this “brainless cheerleader” invective at me; yet he tried to keep it under the radar by not mentioning me by name. So you’re right, he’s being very underhanded — again.

          And no one does “mean-spirited” quite like voeg. Not only with comments he makes here, but on two of his other blogs, as well.

      • Angemon says

        Jul 23, 2015 at 8:51 pm

        voegelinian posted:

        “For intelligent readers who care to explore further my point (particularly about Angemon’s “regular people” red herring), they should zero in on —

        http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/07/fifty-muslim-girls-taken-from-uk-to-somalia-for-fgm/comment-page-1#comment-1270821

        — then appropriately scroll up, and down, to widen the focus on this sub-issue — a sub-issue that needn’t be this complex and spread out, but for the rabbit-hole sophistry of Angemon making it so (and believe me, were I to engage him more fully on all his rabbit-trails, he would make it mushroom into staggeringly voluminous proportions).”

        Once again, the voegelinian dismissal – “Sophistry! Rabbit Holes! MUSHROOMS!!!! That’s why I don’t defend my questions and why you need to defend me”.

        There’s only so much that you can milk out of your “it’s sophistry therefore I won’t bother to reply, not will I explain why it’s sophistry”, and the limit is long past.

        “Or readers can just be a brainless cheerleader for the Angemon/Jihadski Team, and let their team-player Angemon (who evidently enjoys using his analytical skills on incessant Friendly Fire) do all the work.”

        For someone who often accuses others of using false dichotomies, you sure do love using them yourself. It’s either being intelligent and agreeing with you or being a brainless cheerleader. Just where do you think you are, voeg, 5th grade? “What do you mean, you don’t smoke? C’mon, all the cool kids are doing it! You want to be a cool kid, don’t you?”

        As for the “friendly fire” part, need I remind you that YOU were quite clear on that – neither myself or PJ stand a chance of being friends with you. And I’m OK with that – you’ve made it quite clear that, in order to be your “friend”, people must willingly abdicate of their ideas and views and instead adopt your own, without any hesitation or questioning. If you say jump, they shouldn’t even need to ask “how high?” because they should know how high they are supposed to lump. If someone disagrees with, or questions what, you write then they are to come in and bully the offending party into silence. Anything else than that and they’ll find themselves with the internet equivalent of a knife in the back and a “burn notice”.

        Less attacks on character and more replying to criticism usually go a long way, you know?

    • Angemon says

      Jul 23, 2015 at 8:33 pm

      voegelinian posted:

      “Yes, unlike some in the Counter-Jihad — e.g., long-time Jihad Watch readers Angemon and Phillip Jihadski, who have attacked me countless times in different Jihad Watch comments threads for saying, and analytically developing, the point Rushdie is making here”

      Nope. No one attacked you. We inquired you about the flaws in your “theory”, and you replied, as usual, not by answering our inquiry but by attacking our motivations and character. That’s the mark of a con artist like Al Sharpton.

      “and perhaps by their silence, also certain other Jihad Watch readers who have failed to come to the defense of my position”

      Right, because you’re entitled to having others defending your positions when you can’t defend them yourself.

      “indeed, occasionally siding with Angemon and Phillip Jihadski”

      Because that’s a bad thing, right? People looking into two sides of an argument and not taking yours – can’t have that, no, no, no, no, NO.

      “Indeed, recently Angemon chided me for this very point when I made it for the umpteenth time (viz., that the Problem of the Problem is that the Western mainstream continues to racialize the primary Problem of Islam”

      And you, as usual, went for the sob story: that I was defending softness on muslims and therefore attacking you, that others needed to step in and defend you, etc. – everything except, you know, defend your position. Much like you’re doing here.

      “and he insisted that “regular people” don’t racialize the issue”

      And you failed to provide any evidence to the contrary.

      “an obtuse and incoherent red herring”

      Ah, there it is, the voegelinian dismissal!

      “when we are talking about a mainstream West which is myopic to the problem of Islam and we are trying to understand why”

      No, some of us are trying to understand it. Others (meaning you) have have a one-note answer and are hellbent on squashing any dissident views. What you keep ignoring in your narrow-minded, one-note, simplistic approach is that there’s more to the West and its culture, traditions and changes they go through than islam and the Counter-Jihad movement, which is a glaring flaw – islam in the West doesn’t exist in a vacuum, and you’re reducing the result of a huge paradigm shift that can be traced back decades to a case of sudden, generalized racism.

      Do muslims and islamic apologists resort to the magic blanket of racial animus to silence criticism of islam? Yes, because it works – most people don’t want to be called a racist and will probably bullied into silence. Racists, on the other hand, carry on unfazed. Even you should be able to acknowledge what that means, voeg- or do you require assistance? Calling critics of islam “racists” is not the same as actually being racist, it’s just a handy way to silence them.

      “we are not talking about “regular people”, unless “regular people” are responsible for this colossal myopia to the problem of Islam which we in the Counter-Jihad daily lament.”

      Which they’re not – that’s my point all along. Talking heads on the TV droning on and on about how islam is a religion of peace are one thing, regular blokes on the street who, on virtue of the ever-increasing number of muslim terror groups worldwide justifying their increasingly barbaric actions with the quran, decide to educate themselves on the issue are another.

      “ And if “regular people” are not racializing the issue of Islam”

      Which, going by your lack of evidence, they’re not.

      “they most likely belong to the small beleaguered minority of Counter-Jihad folks (including myself)”

      That’s quite a big leap in logic, isn’t it? If they’re not racializing the issue then they’re on your side. I’m not racializing the issue. Am I on your side? Of course not, you’ve made that very clear many times.

      “who are, alas, not part of the Western mainstream which continues to set the unofficial, albeit prevailing PC MC worldview”

      You probably live in some sort of Bizarro world where politicians put their personal views and interests aside to flawlessly represent the interests and views of the people who voted them in.

      “and the more official policies vis-à-fucking-vis the problem of Islam which flow from that prevailing worldview.”

      Once again, big leap in logic. Are you suggesting that, for example, the majority of people in England want to take in more muslim migrants? Or that most people in Italy want to take in ALL “migrants” drifting in the Mediterranean Sea?

      Claiming that the problem of islam in the West stems from racism is the kind of gross oversimplification I’ve learned to expect from a quack who not only harassed others by email trying to guilt them into defending him but would also rather spend most of his post lying about specific users without having the decency to address them directly (preferring, instead, to talk to an invisible audience whom he criticized for not taking his side) instead of making a cogent, tight defense of his views.

    • Raja says

      Jul 23, 2015 at 9:22 pm

      Reply to
      voegelinian
      July 23, 2015 at 2:19 pm

      You have made a valid and reasonable point but who in the world is listening?

      West needs to put in lots of character into its educational system and get rid of Marxists nonsense and myths. If the children are reared to be to cuckoos, zombies etc thanks to the Marxists ideologies the nations will themselves vanish to clear focused Jihadi and their subjugation is not very far.. Yes racializing is potentially destructive stupid idea. This is a long term suicide idea of the West. Where in the globe is there no racism? Racism is practiced in all kinds /forms and in all degrees and this is how an individual celebrates his “individuality”. The West cannot change the attitude and prejudice of every individual with anti racism laws. The West needs to watch out for stealth Jihadist who will kill you at the opportune time and appropriate time as he is focused on grabbing land and society and every influence. Actually this should be called Jugglery(not exactly stealth Jihad) which doesn’t seem to be in use unfortunately!!!(My UK educated (1940’s) ex-employer used this term used very articulately.)

  15. mortimer says

    Jul 23, 2015 at 3:56 pm

    In the past fifty years since the American civil rights movement, there has been a systematic brainwashing of white Americans and Europeans, first regarding race, then regarding culture. Those two distinctly different topics have been intentionally blurred by the cultural Marxists who shout ‘RACIST’ at everyone who disagrees with their Marxist agenda. (Note that Martin Luther King was a Republican.) With gay abandon and with even less concern for facts, truth, evidence, procedure or the rules of logic the cultural Marxists use every means foul or fair to slander those who insist IDEAS and IDEOLOGY have absolutely NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE.

    That is the crux of the matter. Indeed, the cultural Marxists are COMPLETELY aware that they are opposed to freedom of expression and they are aware of and focused on their goal which is censorship and the rule of a the Vanguard of the Proletariat. Once in power, there will never be a semblance of free speech ever again.

    Muslims have a similar goal but with a different ‘Vanguard’ composed of mullahs and a caliphate-dictatorship similar to that of ISIS.

    • voegelinian says

      Jul 24, 2015 at 3:19 am

      Watch Angemon ignore what mortimer said, which serves in some ways to back up my elementary point which so eludes the sophistication of Angemon’s analysis.

      • Angemon says

        Jul 24, 2015 at 6:51 am

        voegelinian posted:

        “Watch Angemon ignore what mortimer said”

        You should spend less time obsessing over whom I reply to and more making a cogent case for your ideas.

        “which serves in some ways to back up my elementary point which so eludes the sophistication of Angemon’s analysis.”

        I’ll keep your opinion of mortimer handy to rub in your face when you resume hounding and harassing him and taking potshots at something he said over one year ago, or that you call him “asymptotic”, or that you imply that he’s gullible or has an hidden agenda, can’t be trusted, others should not follow his example, etc.

        http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/06/al-azhar-distributing-free-book-dedicated-to-discrediting-christianity-the-failed-religion#comment-1250729

        http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/05/jihadi-bride-i-rejoiced-when-we-had-our-first-sex-slave/comment-page-1#comment-1242377

        http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/05/australia-to-strip-citizenship-of-australian-born-jihadis-with-immigrant-parents/comment-page-1#comment-1241964

        3 examples from an ocean. This is the kind of holes you dig yourself into: you spent months, if not over a year, hounding and harassing mortimer, rubbing Daniel Pipe’s “85-15%” split he mentioned aroung a year ago and going out of your way to portray him as an unreliable person, the poster-child of everything that’s wrong with the CJ movement, and now you’re here taking trying to take solace in something he wrote. Can you even feel shame?

        Of course, you don’t explain how and where mortimer backs up your point – you just see him mentioning racism and try to run with it – and yet, you often accuse others of “sophistry”. Since you seem to have missed it, voeg, mortimer isn’t saying that the free-pass given to islam in current society stems from racist, which is your whole argument. I can already see you answer: “Angemon, obtusely or wilingly, ignores that I said to certain extent”. That makes as much sense as saying that the sky is green and the grass is blue is, to as certain extent, as right as saying that the grass is green and the sky is blue because it has sky, grass, green and blue.

        Mortimer says this:

        “Those two distinctly different topics have been intentionally blurred by the cultural Marxists who shout ‘RACIST’ at everyone who disagrees with their Marxist agenda.”

        I told you, voeg, among other tidbits of information that you chose to disregard as being “sophistry”, that charges of “racism” were a handy tool to silence critics. I also told you that you grossly oversimplify things and ignored culture and its changes – the current stance on islam does not exist in a vacuum. Mortimer tries to frame it in a larger picture and takes other factors into consideration, so on that regard he’s actually backing what I said. There are several other factors and works he could have mentioned, but it’s a good start, overall.

      • Champ says

        Jul 24, 2015 at 2:07 pm

        voeg wrote:

        Watch Angemon ignore what mortimer said, which serves in some ways to back up my elementary point which so eludes the sophistication of Angemon’s analysis.

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        Once again, voeg is goading Angemon. Then voeg will whine and play the victim, and complain that no one is defending him — yet here he is, again, goading Angemon on.

        And voeg doesn’t just complain that no one is helping him — voeg will list people by name! Who does that? Ironically, the people that voeg will list by name are the same folks hes either richly insulted here on JW, or those hes written negatively about on his blog — and then he *expects* their help here? That would be funny if it weren’t so outrageous!

        voeg may consider himself good for Jihad Watch, but he’s BAD for morale — in fact he’s toxic.

        • Angemon says

          Jul 24, 2015 at 3:56 pm

          Champ posted:

          “And voeg doesn’t just complain that no one is helping him — voeg will list people by name! Who does that? Ironically, the people that voeg will list by name are the same folks hes either richly insulted here on JW, or those hes written negatively about on his blog — and then he *expects* their help here? That would be funny if it weren’t so outrageous! ”

          Very true, Champ. The more he does that, the more I’m convinced that he doesn’t see other users as people with their own feelings and values, which allow them to disagree with someone else in specific cases or particular details while keeping an overall friendliness, respect and general agreement with their overall goal, but as tools that are to be turned on, used, and turned off, as he pleases. For example, GI has spoken a great deal on his behalf, and tried to act as his buffer and intermediary,between him and PJ and still, out of nowhere, voeg kicked her in the teeth (metaphorically, not literally) and insisted she should be insulting PJ:

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/05/here-we-go-mcclatchy-suggests-limits-on-free-speech-after-texas-jihad-shooting/comment-page-2#comment-1233181

          “voeg may consider himself good for Jihad Watch, but he’s BAD for morale — in fact he’s toxic.”

          I think that he’s one of those people who, the more others tell them whatever it is that they are doing is wrong and that they should change their ways, the more they become convinced that whatever it is that they’re doing is right and only they are smart enough to look above and beyond the overwhelming mountain of evidence that proves them wrong and see the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

          Whatever the case may be, you’re correct: he is toxic – he spends a great deal of time here side-snipping and second-guessing Robert, Raymond, Hugh, and the rest of the contributors, making criticism that’s either based on erroneous assumptions or easy to dismiss on a discussion in good faith, for which voeg never seems to be available.

        • Champ says

          Jul 25, 2015 at 1:02 pm

          Angemon wrote:

          “…he spends a great deal of time here side-snipping and second-guessing Robert, Raymond, Hugh, and the rest of the contributors, making criticism that’s either based on erroneous assumptions or easy to dismiss on a discussion in good faith, for which voeg never seems to be available.”

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Angemon, that is precisely what I observe from voeg, as well. Nicely stated.

      • Linde Barrera says

        Jul 25, 2015 at 11:14 pm

        To Voegelinian (Vogue) – In the smorgasbord that is Jihad Watch, and in reference to you, Angemon and PJ, I am not sure who of you is the appetizer, the entree and the dessert. But I like all 3 of you and I think all of you should bury the ax and start over, as the tension becomes personal and not about the actual issues. (Champ is good, but is not a guy like you 3 are.) ?

        • Angemon says

          Jul 26, 2015 at 8:30 am

          Hi Linde. I understand and appreciate that feeling of yours, but there’s only one place I want to bury my axe when dealing with someone who repeatedly lied about me, misrepresented me, accused me of being a muslim troll, said I had brain damage and a mental illness for criticizing him and his ideas, said I should be bullied into silence and tried to guilt-trip others to do so, going as far as pestering them through email.

  16. mortimer says

    Jul 23, 2015 at 4:00 pm

    Thank you, Sir Salman, for that wonderful quote!

    “Fear is being disguised as ‘respect’.”

  17. Champ says

    Jul 23, 2015 at 4:29 pm

    Fear is being disguised as respect,” he said….

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    True. But respect is for those who DESERVE it, not for those who DEMAND it …

    All a muslim can do is DEMAND respect from others; since there’s nothing inherently good about islam.

    Even perverted-prophet muhammad (perdition be upon him) did NOTHING worthy of respect. He was an unrepentant criminal/evildoer: liar, thief, pedophile, murderer (etc), and he followed satan, not the one true God, and ultimately deceived others as some true ‘prophet’ — when in fact he was a prophet from hell.

    That said, a muslim can, in fact, earn respect from others — even though they follow what I consider to be an ugly and evil ‘religion’ — by allowing others the *freedom* to choose islam, or not.

    Aw, but there’s the rub!! …according to islam non-muslims really don’t *have* a choice, now do they? So round ‘n round we go …

    Yep. As I just stated, all a muslim can do is DEMAND respect from others. End of story …

    • Champ says

      Jul 23, 2015 at 4:44 pm

      “Fear is being disguised as respect,” he said….”

      Bravo, Salman!

      Fear and intimidation, through death threats and bullying — of every sort — are some of the oldest tricks in the book, and this is all a mohammedan has at his/her disposal to get what they want. And what they want is respect, but they never truly achieve that from anyone — all they achieve is producing fear in others. How evil.

      • Peggy says

        Jul 23, 2015 at 11:05 pm

        All Muslims want is supremacy and they don’t care how they get it. They know that nobody can respect crap which is what their religion is but they are happy to get submission through fear. A bully won’t care if you respect him or not as long as you serve him.
        What is tragic is that we, the west, seem to be even less deserving of respect because we are more than happy to serve them. Imagine a savage having a laught on us.
        How dare out leaders force us to endure this humiliation.
        Are we ever going to make them pay?

  18. Davegreybeard says

    Jul 23, 2015 at 6:31 pm

    @AJ Liberphile
    “Then Gabe noticed the Satanic Verses ages later and sorted it all out. But how did Mo kno it was Gabe, not Satan again, messing with his head?”

    It is blasphemy and impertinence to even ask such questions Infidel!

    I would refer you to Allah’s most perfect Word as written in His most perfect Book, the Quran:

    22:52 “ Never did We send a messenger or a prophet before thee, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some (vanity) into his desire: but Allah will cancel anything (vain) that Satan throws in, and Allah will confirm (and establish) His Signs: for Allah is full of Knowledge and Wisdom:”

    So Satan slips some bullshit in when ALL the Prophets speak, Muhammad’s no different. But it’s O.K. ‘cause Allah said so.

    Got it Infidel?

    • t. says

      Jul 24, 2015 at 12:55 am

      ”I would refer you to Allah’s most perfect Word as written in His most perfect Book, the Quran:”

      Who said that it’s God’s most perfect word and that the Quran is his most perfect book? Is this meant to be a joke?

      Go study thoroughly The Quran, Hadiths, Sunnah, past and contemporary history of Islam. Compare all of that with the teachings of the bible and Christianity, for example. If you really love God and want to do his will, come to all of this with open mind and heart, only to dig for the truth and nothing but the truth. I suggest to you to do that before posting any more comments on the subject of your religion.

      To examine one’s own belief system and convictions, especially those held since being a child, is difficult, daring, troubling and might even be intimidating. It needs an emotionally strong individual with an iron will, deep hunger and thirst for the truth and above all an infinite love for the creator

      If you’re not willing to do that, then it simply means that your not honest with yourself, let alone with others, in which case you’re the one, who is worthy to be called ”infidel” and kafir, not AJ Liberphile!

  19. Baucent says

    Jul 23, 2015 at 9:00 pm

    “Fear is being disguised as respect”

    Very true Mr Rushdie. Many of the appeasers are plain cowards.

  20. kay says

    Jul 23, 2015 at 9:59 pm

    Salman Rushdie, Yusuf Islam and Christopher Hitchens – 2 videos

    “Respect meant you took someone seriously. It didn’t mean you didn’t disagree with them….What you have is cowardice masquerading as respect.”
    — Salman Rushdie ( see below )

    “You don’t have to be a Muslim to be brought within the range of reprisal.”
    — Christopher Hitchens ( below )

    “Blasphemy is a victimless crime.”
    — Salman Rushdie

    Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam Calls For The Murder Of Salman Rushdie – He Now Denies Ever Doing This
    36,522
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Oienjf0GK8

    Uploaded on Jan 9, 2011

    Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam has tried to get this video (in which he clearly calls for the murder of Salman Rushdie) removed and banned from wherever it has been posted on the internet. He also categorically denies ever calling for the murder of Salman Rushdie.

    Yusuf Islam commented on this matter by posting the following statement on his own website – “I never called for the death of Salman Rushdie; nor backed the Fatwa issued by the Ayatollah Khomeini – and still don’t. The book itself destroyed the harmony between peoples and created an unnecessary international crisis.”

    See the video and decide for yourself whether Yusuf Islam is lying and trying to re-write history.

    I do not know how long this video will remain posted until Yusuf Islam has it removed so please post/re-post and forward this video as much as possible so that this man can not get away with such blatant Taqiyya. Please help to show the world what so often happens to a human mind when it becomes infected with Islam.

    This is a man famous for the song “Peace Train” – but all we see here is the Islamic version of “peace”.

    ——————-

    Chris Corbett 5 months ago
    One of the excuses he gave was that he was new to Islam. No, he converted to Islam in 1977 and this incident happened in 1989.

    Dubstep Matt 2 months ago
    +Chris Corbett True. And he had been studying Islam since 1975. He had 14 years of consistent studying knocked out before he made those remarks.

    ——————-

    Carlito House 6 months ago (edited)
    There are editors at Wikipedia who will prevent other Wikipedia editors from including this reference in his bio. Bullies who have no qualms telling you that they are “Islamic Editors” and will annihilate any attempt you make to include this reference in the Yusef Islam Wikipedia article. They are senior editors and will quickly archive the talk page references so that no one else will see the tight control they have over what is supposed to be a “democratic” encyclopedia.

    Robert Chastain 6 months ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_Stevens#Salman_Rushdie_controversy

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_Stevens%27_comments_about_Salman_Rushdie
    ·

    Carlito House 6 months ago (edited)
    Exactly.

    ====================

    72 Virginians.

    A Conversation with Christopher Hitchens and Salman Rushdie: Freedom to Write Lecture (2010)
    40,659
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu-RYwtlRAA

    “Once it’s become a matter of violence, then you have to report it.”
    — Christopher Hitchens

    • voegelinian says

      Jul 24, 2015 at 3:29 am

      Yeah, I saw that Yusuf Islam video a couple of years ago. What struck me about Yusuf’s avowal of the fatwa was two things:

      1) his adroit way of admitting it while carefully expressing it with loopholes (though the loopholes won’t work for a reasonable & attentive audience)

      2) the fervor in his eyes that flashed briefly at one certain crucial moment, but with the fire of fanatical zeal for the punishment befitting the crime — that worst crime of all in Islam.

    • t. says

      Jul 25, 2015 at 12:31 am

      Kay,

      I watched the two videos. In the first one, Yusuf Islam, very clearly. in plain English, says that he supports the killing of Salman Rushdie. In the second, which automatically follows the first, Christopher Hitchens brilliantly drives the point home about the importance of free speech, which he refers to as the enlightenment, and above all the importance of protecting it at all costs.

      That was in 1989! I guess Obama and Cameron, were busy getting their ”higher education degrees”, they didn’t have time to see these precious videos!

      I highly recommend watching them to anyone reading this. Here is the link again:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Oienjf0GK8

      N.B. Read also the comments following the Christopher Hitchens part, I found many of them to be interesting.

      Thanks a lot Kay.

  21. shams78 says

    Jul 24, 2015 at 1:07 am

    There as a book written by an idiot twenty years ago which defamed Islam in China.

    After protests by Hui, Salar, Bonan, and Dongxiang Muslims, the Chinese government banned the book, arrested the authors and torched copies of the book in public.

    Nothing happened around on its embassies and consulates in foreign countries.

    Cartoons get printed in Denmark ten years ago. Danish embassies and consulates faced demonstrations and protests throughout the world and Denmark gets bad publicity after the government refused to do anything.

    • shams78 says

      Jul 24, 2015 at 1:10 am

      By “idiot”, I mean a provocateur who could include even a grain of truth in their writings. The authors of the book claimed sexual orgies were held on Hajj and that Islamic architecture was built to resemble genitalia.

    • Baucent says

      Jul 24, 2015 at 2:58 am

      So what is your point?

      • voegelinian says

        Jul 24, 2015 at 3:30 am

        His point is as always, Death to America.

  22. sidney penny says

    Jul 24, 2015 at 1:29 am

    When are Robert Spencer’s works going to be studied at Universities in US and around the world.

    Or was Salman Rushdie fiction and Robert Spencer non fiction?

    from the original article.

    http://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/salman-rushdie-says-the-world-learned-the-wrong-lessons-from-his-iran-fatwa-ordeal/

    “Extremism constitutes an attack against the Western world as much as against Muslims themselves,” Rushdie told L’Express.

    “Keeping silent does not help Muslims…. Fighting extremism is not fighting Islam. To the contrary, it defends it.”

    The writer said that the controversy that surrounded the PEN prize to Charlie Hebdo this year convinced him that, if the attacks against “The Satanic Verses” had occurred today, “these people would not come to my defence and would use the same arguments against me by accusing me of insulting an ethnic and cultural minority”.

    He added that he had “greatly suffered” from being forced to live in hiding and under police protection after Iran’s fatwa.

    But he appreciated the fact that his book was now being looked at for the work it was meant to be, and was studied in universities.

  23. Davegreybeard says

    Jul 24, 2015 at 1:34 pm

    @ t.
    “Who said that it’s God’s most perfect word and that the Quran is his most perfect book?”

    Muhammad, the Prophet of Muslims.

    @ t.
    “Is this meant to be a joke?”

    Yes

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