This report was written for RaymondIbrahim.com by Michele A.
Invited by Europe 1 on Monday morning, the Rector of the Paris Mosque and President of the French Council of the Muslim Faith Dalil Boubaker was quizzed by veteran journalist Jean-Pierre Elkabach about his proposal to recover “empty churches” to serve the Muslim faith. Boubaker smiled coyly, but Elkabach bluntly called on him to be as candid as possible since this is why he was there anyway. He had been invited to discuss his suggestion made in a soon-to-be released “Open Letter to the French.”
Boubakeur relented: “This is a delicate issue, but why not,” he said.
He cited the example of the city of Clermont-Ferrand where “religious clerics had welcomed Muslims”. For more than 30 years, the chapel was abandoned until 2012 when it became a mosque, courtesy of a congregation of nuns. “It’s the same God, our faiths are neighboring, fraternal, and I think that Muslims and Christians can coexist and live together”, opined Dalil Boubaker.
According to him, the 2,500 mosques and 300 under construction were “insufficient”. He hoped that the construction of 2,500 new ones would be discussed at the “forum for dialogue” held that same day. For the demand for more mosques was ever growing.
Boubakeur recalled that France included 7 Million Muslims in 2015, and Europe 20 Millions. They would become 45 Million in 2025, so Europe had to gear up to cater to them.
As well, accommodations should be made for fasting Muslims during the month of Ramadan. “Such as?” inquired Elkabach. “Time off to pray 5 times a day, relaxed productivity standards, etc etc?” That’s right, replied Boubakeur unflinchingly. But he added, probably to make the pill seem more palatable, that concessions were already “kindly extended by some”.
Elkabach, reading from a document, then quoted Minister of the Interior Bernard Cazeneuve as saying that France’s laicism did “not forbid the veil at university, or restrict veiled women from access to beaches.” Elkabach sarcastically let out that this all sounded so “promising”, but the irony seemed lost on Boubakeur who exclaimed that Cazeneuve was” a very sensible man” who was “to be commended on his declarations”.
Elkabach further asked Boubakeur about the OIF (Union of Islamic Organisations of France), a Muslim Brotherhood front organization. But Boubakeur deftly played the matter down, asserting that this organization had ‘evolved’ a lot.
“And who’ll finance all those imams who’ll preach in the new mosques you are requesting?” (In April 2015, Boubakeur proposed to double the number of France’s mosques). ” Our communities will,” affirmed Boubakeur.
“No foreign aid at all”? Boubakeur then conceded: “Oh well, we will ask Arab countries who have billions and don’t know what to do with their money, we’ll ask them to give us a small aid, which is normal since we are their European brothers.”
In conclusion, and still in support of his proposal for more mosques, Boubakeur explained how the disadvantaged suburbs were a breeding ground for criminality, which in turn encouraged radicalization, often inside prison. He saw more mosques as a balancing factor.
Reactions to this bombshell announcement were a mixed bag, but leaning on outrage. A few atheists couldn’t care less – a church was nothing more to them than walls with a roof. One comment by a Muslim was that it was Christians’ fault if their churches fell vacant. It was up to them to fill them if they wanted to keep them. The response came that it would be better for Christians to destroy rather than cede their empty churches, because once consecrated, churches contained Christ’s living presence. Islam did not have anything similar to the Eucharist in its theoogy, all its followers needed for worship was a rug in the corner of a room, any room. Hence, the conversion proposal was felt to be unjustified – a provocation.
So was the explanation that Islam and Christianity were neighborly and fraternal faiths. How could that be true, wrote one, with the many verses in the Qur’an calling for the killing of unbelievers, and specifying the ‘People of the Book “(Christians and Jews)? Those verses had not been repealed or reinterpreted, that person wrote, and besides, there was no authority in charge of unifying the Islamic doctrine. In any event, the very word of innovation (Bida’a) was sacrilegeous in religious matters. That Christians could have neighborly and brotherly relations with Muslims was one thing, if those Muslims were secularised enough and well-meaning towards them. But it was quite another thing to equate the two religions and on that basis, to expect one of them to renounce itself to cater to the demands of the other.
So is it the beginning of the end of secularism in France? Not quite yet. But the French may be starting to realize that their much vaunted secularism is not the neutral space it purported to be. The rise of France’s Muslim population and the multiplication of its special requests (ability to pray every few hours and to have halal food in canteens and enterprises, to count on revised history curriculae, to wear head scarves or full-faced veil, to have women-only swimming pools, to avoid airport security checks, etc, etc) mean ever more accommodations to France’s precious principle of ‘laicité’, and is instituting a de facto two-speed implementation regime. How will it all end? Not well, if one is to believe alarmist scenarios such as Eric Zemmour’s “Le Suicide français” (The French Suicide’) or Michel Houellebecq’s “Soumission” (Submission), with its portrayal of 2022 France as an Islamic Republic. Unless some creative solution is found. Fast.
mortimer says
And so the French end up in a miasma of intellectual hair-splitting, and all the while the jihadists seek ways to divide and rule. Here a little, there a little…no one understands that jihad is TOTAL, TOTALIZING AND TOTALITARIAN.
The naïve simpletons.
Brian says
Not only do they want Christians churches turned in to mosques, they attack Christians leaving churches in France…
SEE:
Brian says
Just look at this once beautiful cathedral in France which is now a mosque…It is heartbreaking to see this…
Betty says
IT NEEDS TO BE DESTROYED NOW SATAN HAS TAKEN OVER.AND IS FILLED WITH EVIL.
kikorikid says
Islam is a Totalitarian-Supremacist ideology which operates
behind a veneer/façade of religiosity.
Islam does not come to integrate or assimilate.
Isllam comes ONLY to: Conquer, Submit, Convert, or Kill.
john spielman says
time to stop ALL foreign aid from muslim countries (esp Saudi Arabia) from coming into the west to finance the construction and running of mosques!
Mike says
Notice how none of the rich Muslim countries contribute funds to assist countries after catastrophes such as earthquakes. All their contributions have a string attached—the money cannot go to any groups except Muslims and is used to establish Mosques and other religious sites.
Agent of Liberty says
You’d think that what is written in the koran. Violence, Islam would illegal in France. Everyone is being fooled by the muzzies!
Islam_Macht_Frei says
In honor of sacred Islamic precedent, may there be as many mosques in France and elsewhere as there are churches in Saudi Arabia.
Jaladhi says
Sigh – France is screwed!!
Add to the list……
jayell says
What is ‘Go take a runnung jump’ in French?
Islam_Macht_Frei says
Try: “Va te faire enculer!”
Stardusty Psyche says
“Islam did not have anything similar to the Eucharist in its theology”
Indeed, in Islam a cracker does not become human flesh and people do not cannibalize it as a part of a bizarre superstitious ceremony. That’s a Catholic ritual.
Islam has bloody debauchery of a real variety, not merely of the imagination, and in particular they seem to be fond of cutting off body parts.
If I had to choose between a Catholic eating a cracker he thinks is really human flesh, or a Muslim chopping off a head I would think they are both nuts, but would really prefer the cracker cannibalism variety.
kash says
You have a gross misunderstanding of the Eucharist. This sounds like the Muslim objections to it.
Stardusty Psyche says
Hi Kash,
Ok, you claim I ” have a gross misunderstanding of the Eucharist”
Yet you offer no specifics as to what this supposed misunderstanding consists of. You cite no grounds, so your statement is literally groundless, at least insofar as you have posted.
“. This sounds like the Muslim objections to it.”
Indeed. Each religion presents many valid objections to the others.
Some Muslim objections to Christianity are based on the words of Muhammad, and are thus of no authority to me.
Some Muslim objections to Christianity are based on the irrationalities inherent in Christianity, and I generally find broad agreement with Muslim critics of Christianity in such cases.
Joseph says
@ Stardusty Pilferer
Indeed, in Islam a cracker does not become human flesh and people do not cannibalize it as a part of a bizarre superstitious ceremony. That’s a Catholic ritual.
________________________________________________
Like I have said before….YOU PARROT #ULLSHIT
If you want to say something about Catholics then do your homework first. Let me guess, you heard that one from one of your supposed “intelligent” professors. Why don’t you leave your myths, theories and prejudices in your head where they belong. We have all heard this mumbling crap before and have explained it before that is why you will not get an explanation to your mistake, at least not from me.
Stardusty Psyche says
My dearly beloved sibling in humanity,
Catholic doctrine is that the Eucharist literally becomes the flesh of Jesus, then they eat it. Cannibalism plain and simple.
Yes, there are many tortured attempts at Catholic apologetics to try and square that circle, but it just is ritual cannibalism.
I would really like to get back to the good old days of debating creationism nonsense, stem cell research, and the inanities of Christian doctrine…as opposed to the fascistic, misogynistic, homophobic, homicidal, suicidal, enslaving, expansionist, raping, thieving, and extremely dangerous superstition that is Islam.
Christianity is unquestionably the lesser of evils.
Brian says
Oh dear, yet another anti-theist with zero theology.
CogitoErgoSum says
The Eucharist is just ritual cannibalism? That’s ALL it is? I’m glad you cleared that up for me because I thought it was something more complicated. Thanks for reminding me that life can be so simple if you just don’t think too much.
Joseph says
@ Stardusty Pilferer
You have obviously over-dosed on stupid pills
Champ says
‘sp’ wrote:
My dearly beloved sibling in humanity,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Notice that ‘sp’ even mocks genuine love and friendship ..as he delights in writing this condescending tripe from his imaginary Throne — jeez what an arrogant a-hole!
Linde Barrera says
To Stardusty Psyche- Thanks for the endorsement, from a “cracker – eating cannibal”! And this just goes to show that “One person’s junk is another person’s treasure”. Jesus and his teachings are a treasure to me, even if I am a majority of 1.
voegelinian says
Stardust Psyche in his thinly veiled Equivalencism is essentially saying, by way of analogy, that “the surface of the Sun is somewhat toastier than a hot skillet.” And he expects us to congratulate him for this.
No: the only permissible locution when comparing the grotesquely ghoulish, monstrously depraved, hideously pernicious ideology of Islam with any other religion on the planet must use rhetoric of hyperbole to convey the astronomic disparity accurately. By failing to do so, as Stardust Psyche here does, it to convey (slyly), a grievously erroneous impression & assessment.
voegelinian says
should be (of course): “…is to convey…”
Linde Barrera says
To Voegelinian (Vogue)- I have to hand it to you sir, you do have a way with words. I was almost breathless from the imagery! (Your comment to Stardusty Psyche.) Looking forward to your next post and not being sarcastic.
KrazyKafir says
“It’s the same God”
So, someone hijacks your religion and turns it against you, and you believe their God to be the same as your God, even though they’ve got, your God, coming back to destroy you in end. They say the road to Hell is paved with good intentions, it could also be said another way, the road to Hell is paved with, ignorance and stupidity.
Holy Prophet APF says
It’s the same God, our faiths are neighboring, fraternal…
I’m not gonna call Imam Dalil a liar, I call him instead a taqiyyer. The two Gods are not the same, we know this for sure. Yahweh did not do a century of two as a rock god sitting on a shelf in the Kaaba until elevated to its present stature atop one of the world’s great religions, one of the three Abrahamic faiths.
The god Allah did do time as a rock god worshiped by pre-Holy Prophet pagans. Imam Dalil knows that. He’s trying to trick the French here. They’ve already given up their nation and their freedom, and the Imam is swooping in for the final feeding: takeover of the Yahweh chapels and churches and delivering them to the former rock god, the present day rock star Allah.
Angemon says
It’s not.
One is – and it’s not islam.
Bulls***. A muslim nation can’t coexist with non-muslim neighbours unless its neighbours are better armed and not afraid to use their weapons. Look at Lebanon. Look at Israel. Look at the whole f***ing history of islamic empires – if there’s anything to learn from that is that muslims don’t get along with non-muslims.
So arab money to fund thousands of mosques in France eh? I hope French people remember the following: he who pays the piper calls the tune.
Let’s see:
– Mosques in France teach muslims not to assimilate in the French society
– Those mosques also preach islamic supremacy and hatred of French people (both ethnic and cultural)
– muslims acting upon those teachings turn to crime and abuse of non-musims, like muhammad did during his life
– muslims practicing crimes following what they learned in mosques are thrown in prison
The solution, according to Dalil Boubaker? Why, build more mosques, and let Arab money pay for them! That’s like saying that the solution to the pain caused by hitting yourself in the head with a hammer is hitting yourself in the head with a hammer, only harder.
Stardusty Psyche says
Hi angimone,
” our faiths are neighboring, fraternal”
AM-“One is – and it’s not islam.”
Huh? you really are 15, aren’t you?
Neighbors necessarily neighbor each other. Brothers necessarily are mutually brethren.
You can;t have one neighbor be the neighbor but the other one is not a neighbor of the neighbor…that is simply incoherent.
Angemon says
Stardusty Psyche posted:
“Neighbors necessarily neighbor each other. Brothers necessarily are mutually brethren.”
Actually, SP, neighbouring and fraternal can, and have been, used to describe someone (or in this case, a religion) who shows kindliness or helpfulness toward his or her fellow humans. Which islam doesn’t, since it makes it quite clear that muslims are to be soft with one another and harsh with non-muslims, and forbids them from taking non-muslims as friends or protectors.
The way the sentence is written should make clear in which way neighbouring and fraternal are used to anyone but the hopelessly simpleminded – and you got it wrong. Go figure…
I’ll grab a chair and a book while I wait for your apology – which I suspect it will never come because you won’t admit you’re wrong, no matter how blatantly obvious it is to everyone. Deny everything and make counter accusations, right?
somehistory says
Angemon,
SP pretends to know everything about everything and that includes commentary on the Bible. If he, in fact, knew and understood anything, he would understand the simple truth of the parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10) and that this is what *being* a “neighbor” is all about.
SP, in trying so hard to sound intellectual and knowledgeable on every subject, including those in which he does not believe, would have us believe that “neighbor” means only that person or thing next door.
Champ says
True, Somehistory!
Yes, ‘sp’ is an obtuse knucklehead on the subject of God, the Bible, and the Christian faith, in general. He could save himself a lot of dim witted offerings by steering clear of the subject, altogether, or by conceding to those whom study and know the Bible.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Take care, my friend! 🙂
voegelinian says
“Brothers necessarily are mutually brethren. ”
Yes, like Cain and Abel. (Not to mention — Oy, Gavoy! — Ishmael and Isaac…)
P.S.:
Ishmael, the father of the Muslims (cf. e.g. Qur’an sura 2:125):
And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.
And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.
— Genesis 16:12-13
Tom says
Hey Stardusty …
Boubakeur – ” our faiths are neighboring, fraternal”
Angemon -“One is – and it’s not islam.”
Pretty sure AM meant – there is a neighboring, fraternal faith to Christianity (Judaism, not Islam)
Stardusyt Psyche says
Hi Tom,
Thanks for that consideration but I do not think it is the case.
From the article
““It’s the same God, our faiths are neighboring, fraternal, and I think that Muslims and Christians can coexist and live together”, opined Dalil Boubaker.”
Clearly Boubaker is asserting that Muslims and Christians are neighbors and brothers to each other.
Undoubtedly, they cite many of the same historical or mythical figures, albeit in very different ways. Boubaker goes so far as to say, in effect, Allah and The Trinity are the same God.
Angemon’s post is just another example of his endless dissections that amount to heaps of disjointed word salad.
CogitoErgoSum says
Neighbors do not always live together peacefully (Hatfields & McCoys) and neither do brothers (Cain & Abel). When Boubaker asserts that Muslims and Christians can coexist he is thinking in terms of the Christians surrendering to the Muslims and becoming good dhimmis who pay the jizya and follow with willing and humble submission the rules of their Muslim “superiors.” As for Allah and the Trinity being the same, well, this would be like believing that your reflection in a fun-house mirror is the way you really are. Allah is a horrible distortion and makes a mockery of the Christian God. Boubaker is like a barker at a carnival making the call for suckers to gather round so they can be fleeced.
Linde Barrera says
To Stardusty Psyche- Just because this imam says or believes Allah and the Trinity are one and the same doesn’t make it so, and why does anyone who posts here at JW have to repeat that propaganda? Sometimes I swear, I think you are an Islamist propaganda tool. I hope not. And just so you know, Protestants take holy communion “in memory” of Jesus’ life and resurrection, so the distinction is slightly different from the thinking in Roman Catholicism, but the important thing is taking the Holy Eucharist to be close to Jesus, Lord and Savior of mankind. Not too hard to understand, whether you agree or not.
voegelinian says
“Sometimes I swear, I think you are an Islamist propaganda tool. ”
In his mind (inseperable from the tissue of lies & sophistry he weaves as a persona), SP is something distinct: a valiant warrior of ideas against the Islamophobes who threaten Muslims with “racist” “backlash”.
But when a sane and rational mind steps back to assess, we realize that the two are not distinct: The valiant, self-righteous anti-Islamophobe is just an Orwellian, Alinskyite guise for the Islamopologist Tool.
Betty says
THIS PERSON NEEDS TO BE STONED TO DEATH FOR BLASPHEMING AGAINST THE HOLY TRINITY. SAYING THE HOLY TRINITY AND allah ARE THE SAME GOD.
Linde Barrera says
To Betty- I am going out on a limb here to predict that you, Betty, are a troll. That’s because your English is not that good; you stated that “the person who thinks the Holy Trinity is Allah should be stoned”; (civilized people do not use stones to kill a convicted or suspected criminal) and you inquired what church I attend (I gave you a truthful answer) when I posted that the individual Christian’s conscience will help him/her to decide whether to take up arms in the fight for survival against those who would slay us. I further predict that you are a man, you are about 50ish, and you live in Canada. So which of my predictions are correct? I am curious. Peace.
Voytek Gagalka says
How about this: turn all French mosques into piles of debris! Oh, how “islamophobic” of me. Well, I don’t care! If they can demand to take over churches, how “Christian-phobic” is that?
somehistory says
Better that a house remain empty and become a victim to entropy, than it be inhabited by vermin, the vilest creature, worshipper of satan and his evil beast, islam.
George S. says
Quote from article > ““It’s the same God, our faiths are neighboring, fraternal, and I think that Muslims and Christians can coexist and live together”, opined Dalil Boubaker.”
Further Quote > “Boubakeur explained how ….He saw more mosques as a balancing factor.”
The best Quote > ” “It’s the same God, our faiths are neighboring, fraternal, and I think that Muslims and Christians can coexist and live together”, opined Dalil Boubaker.”
What an outrageous liar, an unmitigated ignorant liar.
Dalil Boubaker is a slimy, uneducated, ignorant, grasping villain. Can you see the Taqqiya that he is using? I hope all that read this can. He is a slimy, dirty liar. Willing to lie to get his Muslim wants and wishes because he knows how weak the Government is in France (and the rest of the EU)!.
I lived in Saudi Arabia for 3 1/2 years while working with SBM. The Saudis have not allowed one church – not one – to be built in their country. The Saudis regularly invade Phillipino homes, where their Phillipine slaves have attempted to hold a Home Church service, and imprisoned the celebrants and whipped them and deported them (if they’re lucky). If you are caught entering Saudi Arabia with a Bible or Prayer book in your possession you are arrested, beaten and then deported – no legal aid to help you. Did you know that Saudi Arabia has funded the building of 1500 mosques in England, and at the same time not allowing one Chuch to be built in Sowdiland?
I feel so sorry for the people of France, UK, Sweden, Norway and other EU countries, as they see their cowardly, stupid politicians bow down to their MC and PC nonsense and let the Muslims ride the fat calf of aid to their benefit. I think that there is going to be a war soon, and the ordinary people of the EU will rise up and kick these retards back to the hell holes from which they came. I hope the war comes soon, I am ready.
Stardusty Psyche says
Hi George,
“I feel so sorry for the people of France, UK, Sweden, Norway and other EU countries, ”
So, you are not in the EU? Or are you kind of feeling sorry for yourself?
” I think that there is going to be a war soon, and the ordinary people of the EU will rise up and kick these retards back to the hell holes from which they came. I hope the war comes soon, I am ready.”
So, what kind of war are you ready for? You plan to travel to the EU and participate in an anti-Muslim civil war?
George S. says
Suspicious…hmmmm. methinks that this Stardusty is a troll. Anyone able to confirm that for this writier.
And no, I am in the EU, and no, I am not feeling sorry for myself. I would say that you should feel sorry for yourself as you seem to have fallen under the thrall of Taqqiya, of the Death Cult,
By the way, one should never end a sentence with a dangling participle. You wrote “So, what kind of war are you ready for?” One of the correct usages of “for” in a sentence is, “So, for what kind of war are you ready?” Maybe you are a slimy Muzzie troll and yer English is not too good. Go back to school.
EventHorizon says
Confirmed. He seems to be a half-wit in need of attention. It’s really kind of sad. Possible victim of Islamic inbreeding.
Stardusty Psyche says
Hi EventHorizon says
” He seems to be a half-wit ”
Indeed, I argue with half my wit tied behind my back…just to give you some kind of chance 🙂
Stardusty Psyche says
Hi George S.
“And no, I am in the EU, and no, I am not feeling sorry for myself. ”
Ok, so you are an EU resident. Do you plan then to fight a civil war against Muslims generally until you either kill or expel all Muslims from the EU?
You said “” I think that there is going to be a war soon, and the ordinary people of the EU will rise up and kick these retards back to the hell holes from which they came. I hope the war comes soon, I am ready.””
“you seem to have fallen under the thrall of Taqqiya, of the Death Cult,”
I am an atheist and an anti-theist, most especially anti-Islam, which is clearly the most dangerous religion on Earth at present.
“By the way, one should never end a sentence with a dangling participle. You wrote “So, what kind of war are you ready for?” One of the correct usages of “for” in a sentence is, “So, for what kind of war are you ready?” Maybe you are a slimy Muzzie troll and yer English is not too good. Go back to school.”
Have you now appointed yourself the God of English? Funny, I don’t believe in that god either.
As a matter of fact there is no such thing as “correct usages” in conversational English. Each of us is free to use any grammar, spelling, or newly coined terms we wish. I rather prefer my infinitives to sometimes be split, for example. I also enjoy using fragments, ending statements with question marks, and the use of exaggerated spellings.
In the context of an English course such techniques would be considered incorrect in formal prose but acceptable and potentially even laudable and artistic in the context of creative writing.
Conversational oral English can be highly expressive, yet when transcribed violate a great many so-called “correct usages”.
You seem to originate from a rather stiff minded corner of the EU…is that why you are so eager to murder or expel Muslims from your continent?
Champ says
‘sp’ wrote:
I am an atheist and an anti-theist, most especially anti-Islam, which is clearly the most dangerous religion on Earth at present.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If this is true, then why does ‘sp’ continue to write disparaging things about Christians?!
Judging by his offerings, on JW, he obviously hates Christianity, as hes made a habit of taking aim at the Christian faith; yet here he acknowledges that islam is “clearly the most dangerous religion on Earth at present.”
NOTE: This is Jihad Watch, not Christianity Watch
Of course ‘sp’ will deny my observations and more mixed-messages will ensue from his highness.
Hey lets see if he can stick to taking aim at the real enemy: islam!
I doubt it …time will tell.
Stardusty Psyche says
Hi Champ,
“I am an atheist and an anti-theist, most especially anti-Islam, which is clearly the most dangerous religion on Earth at present.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If this is true, then why does ‘sp’ continue to write disparaging things about Christians?!”
False dichotomy, I am against all theistic religions simultaneously.
This is indeed JW and I don’t typically bring up Christianity out of the blue. However, many Christians bring up Christianity in contrast to Islam in ways I find to be fallacious.
All religions are not equivalent, and the idea that they are is a big mistake among well meaning Christians and atheists alike. People like Bill Maher, Sam Harris, and Ayaan Hirsi Ali have been getting that message out from the atheist perspective.
I think Christianity and Islam are equally nonsensical, but not equally dangerous, with Islam rapidly approaching an existential threat surpassing that of the Soviet Union.
Joseph says
@ Champ
If we all ignore SP and stop feeding his ego by not replying to him he may just go away.
He is sick and twisted, feeling like he is at the center of the universe when he gets so many replies to the stupid and ignorant posts that he puts up.
His replies are manufactured to produce a confrontation to which he gets his jollies.
As of yesterday I PROMISED that I will never again reply to him. I as well as others here at JW don’t need this type of frustration, it is counterproductive.
Champ says
Joseph, thank you for writing, and asking me once was enough. I cannot make any *promises* to you, at this time, but I will consider your suggestion. Take care.
voegelinian says
“I am an atheist and an anti-theist, most especially anti-Islam, which is clearly the most dangerous religion on Earth at present.”
SP has a funny way of manifesting that antipathy to “clearly the most dangerous religion on Earth at present” — by spending every waking hour trying to fight those who are fighting Islam.
(And notice his sly locution, “at present”; which could mean “for the next 15 minutes”…)
Champ says
SP has a funny way of manifesting that antipathy to “clearly the most dangerous religion on Earth at present” — by spending every waking hour trying to fight those who are fighting Islam.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Precisely, Voeg!
Stardusty Psyche says
Hi Voegie,
“(And notice his sly locution, “at present”; which could mean “for the next 15 minutes”…)”
At present just means now as opposed to hundreds of years ago.
voegelinian says
“At present just means now as opposed to hundreds of years ago.”
Ah yes, the Myth of the “Golden Age” of Andalus and all those rational, enlightened Mutazilites! Ah yes, hundreds of years ago, when Muslims weren’t rampaging, despoiling, pillaging, raping, enslaving just like ISIS is doing “at present”!
Much has been written about the myth, but these two essays ought to be a good start for someone with, as Henri Bergson put it, l’âme ouverte (rather than the pneumopathological deformation of a Stardusty Psyche):
Mutazilite Fantasies: Dross in Islam’s “Golden Age of Reason”, by Andrew Bostom
http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/2013/08/30/mutazilite-fantasies-dross-in-islams-golden-age-of-reason/
Robert Reilly’s Dilettantism and Played-Out Impressionism, by Andrew Bostom
http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/2013/09/07/robert-reillys-dilettantism-and-played-out-impressionism/
The Myth of the Golden Age of Tolerance in Medieval Muslim Spain, by Norman Berdichevsky
http://www.newenglishreview.org/Norman_Berdichevsky/The_Myth_of_the_Golden_Age_of_Tolerance_in_Medieval_Muslim_Spain/
The Golden Age of Islam – A Second Look, by Richard Butrick
http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm/blog_id/40059/The-Golden-Age-of-Islam—A-Second-Look
The persistent myth of Andalusia, by Hugh Fitzgerald
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2005/11/fitzgerald-the-persistent-myth-of-andalusia
Stardusty Psyche says
Hi Vogie,
I never said anything about the golden age.
A lot of terrible things have been done in the past in the name of Christianity. This leads to a false equivalency argument from some people.
Those bad times are mostly a thing of the past in Christianity, but are sharply on the rise in Islam, a prime reason being the sharp difference between Jesus and Muhammad…like day and night respectively in terms of fundamentalist violence.
Linde Barrera says
This guy suggests that France’s churches be turned into mosques? And what will happen to the beautiful stained glass windows and other important visual/sensory objects to show people Jesus Christ? I have a better idea! Let’s turn this guy into a sex slave! Or at least let’s teach him how to bump and grind so we can watch him strut his new found knowledge at a bar/grill that specializes in male dancers. And leave the churches as churches.
TH says
If the likes of ISIS take over France or parts of it, then we can fear for the future of the great Gothic Cathedrals which are about 80 or so. If they are destorying statues in Palmyria, what will stop them from destroying the Christian heritage of Europe? During he French Revolution they destroyed many great Christian churches and monasteries such as Cluny. Of course they also want the Vatican. If it hadn¿t been for the cruzades, they would aleady have them or there would be little of them left.
Betty says
TH. if it is left up the pop Frances I think is his name they (muslims) will get it he has converted to islam I DO BELIEVE.
Stardusty Psyche says
Hi Linde,
” Let’s turn this guy into a sex slave! Or at least let’s teach him how to bump and grind so we can watch him”
And here I thought you were this really mild mannered Christian lady! In truth you are one of those wild women from New York screaming at the dancer to take it all off down to his g-string, or do you prefer the full Monte?
Linde Barrera says
To Stardusty Psyche- Thank you for giving me a laugh regarding your comment to my suggestion that the imam in France turns into a sex slave or a male dancer! You should be advised that I honed my current sense of humor over a period of many years, working for that great bastion of political correctness bureaucracy, the NYC Dept of Education. Not only certain students, whom I miss, but certain principals, colleagues and parents whom I dont miss, assisted in fashioning the sense of humor I now have, which is quite different from the sense of humor I now have. So here goes: I will answer your question honestly by giving you a choice of answers: 1. I’m only human. 2. I look but don’t touch. 3. I plead the 5th Amendment. Pick the answer you like best!
Linde Barrera says
To Stardusty Psyche- Correction: Sense of humor I now have with the sense of humor I had in my 20s, and 30s. (I turned 64 this year and am proud of it.) Keep up your sense of humor.
Abu Al-Dente says
Gotta hand it to that guy, he’s the first to suggest making mosques that aren’t pointing to the Mecca!
Karen says
The Left in Europe haven’t built a neutral space, but they have built a vacuum, and it’s starting to collapse and backfill with the most handy thing; Islam. The Left tried and failed to kill Christianity during the French Revolution, but seem to be succeeding now. Whose fault is it that churches sit empty? The Church itself and Christians must share much of the blame here. When a bunch of nuns see nothing wrong with giving over a scared space to another religion they apparently see as equivalent, then what is the point of the existence of their order? Or the Church? Apparently any old theology will do.
Kepha says
“One comment by a Muslim was that it was Christians’ fault if their churches fell vacant. It was up to them to fill them if they wanted to keep them…”
Well, Uncle Kepha agrees with that Muslim. You don’t like the idea of some fine old Gothic Cathedral or monument of the Renaissance turned into a mosque? Then go and attend on Sunday. And if the clergy are the sort of airheaded nebbishes that Bp. MacManus in New England is, start loudly demanding that we get new clergy who will proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ crucified, risen from the dead, and ascended to the right hand of the Father (go ahead, Stardusky: say something snide about an old man on a cloud). Or, start patronizing churches that still preach the Gospel instead of some facile 19th century moralism or 20th century relativism.
That German woman who yelled out about following Christ when gutless wonders who dared call themselves Lutheran clergy invited Qur’anic readings in church is what Europe needs badly. America too.
And by all means, vote out the EmCee PeeCee bums in power.
Stardusty Psyche says
Hi Uncle Kepha,
Now why would I make a snide comment about a man on a cloud? I mean, you said
“Uncle Kepha agrees with that Muslim.”
Therefor you are a Muslim troll and my brother in all our nefarious plots ans schemes.
Of course, the notion that Jesus was in any way separate from the Father and then “ascended to the right hand of the Father ” does lend weight to the condemnation of Christians as polytheists. How the notion of one god is considered rationally superior to the notion of multiple gods, I don’t know, but claimed monotheists somehow feel themselves superior in that regard.
How a religion replete with angels coming to earth doing magic, saints in heaven doing magic, a devil and his minions in hell doing evil magic, a father, a son, a holy spirit all doing their own bits of magic…well with so may ghosts flying around doing all that magic it is a puzzlement as to how that intricate system of multiple magical entities could in any way be considered monotheism…but hey, I am just a stupid ObamaBot with no capacity for rational analysis…so it don’t make no nevermind.
Linde Barrera says
To Stardusty Psyche- Hello again. Why can you not proclaim that you grasp the meaning of the Trinity? I am not asking you to believe it, but to say “Yeah, I get that.” The monotheism of Christianity is aptly named because the 3 dimensional personages of Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one substance but distinctly differentiated. The only thing I can compare it to is water in its 3 states of matter. And remember: all creatures were born, and made, to glorify God. So this debunks your idea that you were created spontaneously and will return to the dust from whenc
Linde Barrera says
To Stardusty Psyche- from whence you came. Yes, the physical body will become dust but there will be some part of each individual that will live on. So ponder that my good man.
Stardusty Psyche says
Hi Linde,
Yes, those are some deep thoughts to ponder, some might call them imponderables…
“And remember: all creatures were born, and made, to glorify God. So this debunks your idea that you were created spontaneously and will return to the dust from whence you came”
So, god created us to glorify him? Sounds like a pretty pathetic god. I could build a computerized machine that continually says “Stardusty is great, all glory is to Stardusty, I love you Stardusty, please forgive me of my sins Stardusty”, but what would that say about me?
Sorry Linde, but the first part “”And remember: all creatures were born, and made, to glorify God.” is just an ad hoc assertion and debunks nothing.
“Yes, the physical body will become dust but there will be some part of each individual that will live on”
Some part? Sorry, that sounds like nothing more than wishful thinking. You want to live forever so you imagine some part of you will.
Kepha says
Go look up the meanings of hypostasis and ousia.
Linde Barrera says
To Stardusty Psyche- I’m baaack! You commented about making a toy that complimented you, analogous to God creating man to worship Him. That was funny, but you missed my point. We as humans having a finite, natural mind cannot think like God, who is infinite and supernatural. We cannot predict God, we can only know Him through the miracles and signs He sends. Many individuals in the bible were “called” to serve God. Some barely acknowledged God before they received His message. We say “faith is the way to please God.” And you mentioned that most people want a part of themselves to live on after death, so they imagine an afterlife. Well, I know a few folks who would just be happy to sleep through eternity, so not all want an afterlife. Lastly, when I was studying acting in college, the professor made us read certain readings of acting coaches and acting critics. Here’s one I remember: “An actor is like a small child crying in the dark for its mother.” And you remind me of that imagery. There’s no disrespect or shame intended, but I see a symbol imagery between you and the child. And that is my call on the subject.
Betty says
WHAT IS NEEDED IN AMERICA IS REVIVALS AND OLD FASHION TENT MEETINGS LIKE THEY HAD MANY YEARS AGO. I MUST SAY IN THE GOOD OLD DAYS. THOSE DAYS WERE GREAT.
Baucent says
Seems to me if the Catholic church cannot fill it’s churches, or fund the maintenance cost of these emply churches, they should be “decommissioned”, and turned into museums or public facilities. But they should NOT be sold (or lent) to Muslims or any other non Christian religious group. It would be better to knock them down than allow the supremacists that propaganda gift.
dumbledoresarmy says
Here’s a better idea: France could organise an “Operation Exodus” or “Operation Saint Michael and Saint George” to rescue the indigenous Christians from Syria and Iraq (let groups like Barnabas Fund, Open Doors and Voice of the Martyrs handle the “vetting” of the refugees, to make sure they all *are* Christians, not Muslims pretending to be what they weren’t). Those Christians – tens, twenties, hundreds of thousands – could be settled in France…and be given the vacant churches, to worship in. (And one way of making room for all those desperate, currently-suffering-genocide Christians, would be to put a complete STOP on all entry of *Muslims* into France…and to step up deportations of all Muslims found to be supporting/ inciting/ enabling Jihad). Many of the Assyrian Christians are Eastern-Rite Catholics; they would assimilate just fine.
Baucent says
The idea has merit.
Linde Barrera says
To dumbledoresarmy- Your suggestions on rescuing and providing for the Syrian Christians are brilliant. I will personally contact The Barnabas Fund on Monday, July 6 to learn more about their role and see if I can assist in any way. Thank you. BTW, I found out that the UN high Commissioner on Refugees who is based in Switzerland, gets to decide the who, what, where and when of refugees coming into the US! I found that out by making about 6 calls to my elected reps in Washington. I think that is a bad idea, as it would appear that US citizens and their elected reps have no say in this matter. Please correct me, anybody, if this is untrue.
Joseph says
@ Linde Barrera
You have also got my curiosity up on where does the money go when we give. If one does some research on an organization before one donates they can rest easy that the funds are being used correctly. I have not yet found a site that covers all charities. I have found however conflicting sites. Ex, UNICEF, Red Cross and United way. Some sites say that these are great charities but just look at the salaries of the CEO(s) http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/charities.asp
UNICEF is a particular heavy offender at only $0.14/dollar going to those who need it.
I have NOT found anything bad about The Barnabas Fund and the Salvation Army.
TO ALL; Please take your time and find out where your money goes or you just may find out that you are being used.
Take care Linde, I pray for your success in your endeavors.
voegelinian says
Another worthy organization (recently featured on Jihad Watch) is one steered by the brave and wise nun Sister Hatune Dogan — the Hatune Foundation, dedicated to helping persecuted Christians in the Middle East.
http://hatunefoundation.com/international/about-us/
“Sister Hatune Dogan is a Syrian Orthodox nun. She was born in Turkey, but her family fled to Germany to escape persecution [from Muslims, of course]. She now works in the field to help persecuted Christians all over the world, especially in the Middle East.”
Linde Barrera says
To Voegelinian (Vogue) – Thank you for the link to hatunefoundation. I will check it out. If you are American, hope you are having a good Independence Day.
Linde Barrera says
To Voegelinian (Vogue) – Thank you so kindly for referring me to hatunefoundation because I made an offering to them today. The concept of tithing is in the Old Testament, and if you aren’t familiar without it, it is based on the seed/harvest principle of giving God 10% of all you have, and he will multiply it many times over for you. But truthfully, I am so blessed, I want the offering to help others who are in greater need than I am there in Syria, Turkey, and other parts of the middle east, at least in this time of their lives. So you can be proud that you steered me to a charity that will not waste my money! Again, thanks from my heart.
Dazzle says
The Catholic Church in France is sleep walking towards disaster with regard to “engagement” with “faith groups” – effectively Muslims. Very recently, our Bishop, who is a well left of centre intellectual, spoke almost reverentially of 2 Imams he had recently met – they are from the 2 cities closest to us. The Bishop was in the middle of his sermon when he suddenly broke from his prepared text to talk about these Imams and how he was impressed by them. It beggars belief that this clearly gifted cleric should be so taken in by these Imams, as charming as they may have seemed to be.
Many, though by no means all Church buildings in France are state owned. However local communities may apply for assistance with funding for the renovation and repair of their Church – the French have a strong civic pride in their heritage and they are extremely aware of the tourism market that brings employment to so many. People often give freely of their time even when they may be not the least religious.
There are challenges when Churches and other buildings owned by Religious Orders (Monks and Nuns) can no longer be properly maintained, often due to a combination of difficulties – works needed to meet health and safety standards that can be staggeringly expensive to deliver, falling numbers of some Orders, and the equivalent of public liability insurances.
There are areas, mostly urban, where the population profile has changed dramatically in just 15 years so there are fewer churches needed to serve the needs of Catholics locally – it is at the empty churches in these urban areas that the avaricious Imams are casting their eyes, as much for the symbolic political importance of taking over a Christian Church as for an overwhelming need to add more Mosques. These Churches should not be surrendered to Islam. Has the French Roman Catholic hierarchy the wit and the will to fight this battle?
Lioness says
French citizens: please, please, put pigs, ham and bacon in your churches, that immediately renders it Haram to the muzzies and they can’t convert it to a mosque. Practice this with every church in the land. This is very successful in Spain. Oh, yes, muslims will riot, but what else is new? They will riot anyway.
Betty says
linde I said the man should be stoned FOR SAYING THE HOLY TRINITY AND allah are the same. witch they are not. I am Baptist. and in AMERICA. AND NOT IN MY 50S. BUT IN MY 70S AND NO I AM NOT A TROLL. BUT GLAD TO BE AMERICAN. CAN SAY WHAT I THINK ON SOMETHING. AND THE TRUTH IS THE HOLY TRINITY AND allah are not the same. to me allah is satan. and very evil.
Linde Barrera says
To Betty- Thank you for straightening me out. My first impressions of you were incorrect. And I agree with you, of course, that the Holy Trinity and allah are nothing like each other. But no one should be stoned. My preferred method of carrying out the death penalty is gun shooting by firing squad. Take care Betty.
Betty says
line. and another thing I am a woman. not a man.
Linde Barrera says
To Joseph- Thank you for your relevant and kind comments. I have given to ACERO (Assyrian Church of the East Relief Organization), Walid Shoebat.org who claims to rescue Christians in Syria and Pakistan, and Christian Aid Mission. I will definitely check out the percentage of money given to directly help those who need it, compared to what the CEOs’ are earning. And I’m sure the CEOS are not personally delivering food, milk, diapers, clothes, etc to people who are in dire need of these important items. God bless you and yours, Joseph. Let’s keep in touch regarding this matter, and pray without ceasing that our Christian brethren living in “the devil’s playground” can get help to get out alive.
keith says
… won’t happen here in the US… we’re too well armed..!!
To my Brit friends… Happy 4th of July..!!! Lol…
“America… America… Oh God please save the Queen… and if You would… bring to my ‘hood… the best weed ever seen..!!” Lol………..
Haya says
France will be ours very soon, because our religion is the truth , France will be a Muslim country , they are not getting married nor having kids while big number of Muslims migrants are entering and we bring a lot of kids and we will be the majority and you know democracy is about majority , no one can defeat islam, so face it and accept it
Angemon says
Haya posted:
“no one can defeat islam, so face it and accept it”
Hello Haya. The Iberian Peninsula called and said hi. So did Vienna, Lepanto, Malta and Vienna again, and I stopped taking names afterwards. What happened to the Ottoman Empire – the sick man of in Europe – in WWI? Oh, yeah, defeat and fragmentation.
Linde Barrera says
To Haya- Democracy is about being fair and equitable, and you don’t seem to grasp that concept. And I think I have figured out the real reason Muslim men are allowed to have 4 wives and take sex slaves! It’s because many, but not all, Muslim women are lousy in bed, aren’t they? And what is the point of having a lot of children when you can’t feed those children but must depend on the kindness of non-Muslims whom you despise anyway? Islam is not a religion I like or endorse, and I will never be a Muslim. So take your propaganda somewhere else.