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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

UK’s Cameron insists Islam is a peaceful religion, but “strong, positive Muslim voices…are being drowned out”

Jul 21, 2015 6:36 pm By Robert Spencer

Zahra Qadir David Cameron“Although he emphasized that Islam was a peaceful religion, Cameron warned it would be an ‘exercise in futility’ to pretend there was no link between Islam and the radical ideas espoused by militants who call themselves Muslims. Exploring that link will mean ‘uncomfortable’ but necessary conversations, Cameron said.” Here’s an “uncomfortable” conversation starter: will Cameron now ban himself from the country for saying that there is a link between Islam and “the radical ideas espoused by militants who call themselves Muslims”? After all, he banned me from the country in 2013 for saying Islam had a doctrine of warfare against unbelievers, which was tantamount to banning me for saying grass is green and the sky is blue. He will soon find that this “uncomfortable” conversation will be “uncomfortable” precisely because if it is carried out truthfully and honestly, it will challenge his politically correct fantasies. Will he then continue to ignore and deny the truth, or will he begin to return the British government to some semblance of sanity?

“Britain’s David Cameron calls for combating ‘vicious, brutal’ extremists,” by Henry Chu, Los Angeles Times, July 21, 2015 (thanks to Darcy):

Declaring it “the struggle of our generation,” Prime Minister David Cameron called Monday for a wide-ranging effort in Britain to combat the radical ideology that has inspired hundreds of his compatriots to join Islamic militants fighting in Syria and Iraq.

Cameron urged universities, prisons, Internet companies and broadcasters to work with the government to “confront and defeat this poison.” He said it was important to promote moderate Muslim voices in society and to “de-glamorize” extremist groups such as Islamic State that glorify gruesome acts of violence.

“This isn’t a pioneering movement. It is a vicious, brutal and fundamentally abhorrent existence,” Cameron told listeners at a school in Birmingham, Britain’s most populous city after London and home to a significant Muslim population.

“Here’s my message to any young person here in Britain thinking of going out there,” Cameron added. “You won’t be some valued member of a movement. You are cannon fodder for them. They will use you.”…

Cameron called on Internet and media companies and college campuses to show more restraint in giving platforms to inflammatory rhetoric – not just overtly jihadist speech but also other pernicious ideas that feed such viewpoints, such as anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.

“The adherents of this ideology are overpowering other voices within Muslim debate, especially those trying to challenge it,” Cameron said. “There are so many strong, positive Muslim voices that are being drowned out.”

Although he emphasized that Islam was a peaceful religion, Cameron warned it would be an “exercise in futility” to pretend there was no link between Islam and the radical ideas espoused by militants who call themselves Muslims. Exploring that link will mean “uncomfortable” but necessary conversations, Cameron said.

He lamented the segregation in some communities and lack of integration by Muslim and other minority youths who feel detached from “British values.”

“We have in our country a very clear creed, and we need to promote it much more confidently,” he said. “There are things we share together. We’re all British. We respect democracy and the rule of law. We believe in freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of worship, equal rights regardless of race, sex, sexuality or faith. We believe in respecting different faiths, but also expecting those faiths to support the British way of life.”

The Muslim Council of Britain immediately played the victimhood card, and claimed that Cameron, for all his pandering, was endeavoring to “brand us all as extremists.” Amazing that anyone still falls for this nonsense:

The Muslim Council of Britain, an umbrella group of faith-based organizations, welcomed Cameron’s remarks but warned against “litmus tests which may brand us all as extremists, even though we uphold and celebrate the rule of law, democracy and rights for all.”

“Dissenting is a proud tradition of ours that must not be driven underground,” Shuja Shafi, the council’s secretary general, said in a statement. “Challenging extremist ideology is what we all want, but we need to define tightly and closely what extremism is rather than perpetuate a deep misunderstanding of Islam.”

We do indeed need to “define tightly and closely what extremism is.”

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Filed Under: Featured, United Kingdom, Useful idiots, willful ignorance Tagged With: David Cameron


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Comments

  1. Michael Copeland says

    Jul 21, 2015 at 6:50 pm

    The Government’s Prevent strategy gives its definition of ‘extremism’:

    “Extremism is vocal or active opposition to fundamental British values, including democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty and mutual respect and tolerance of different faiths and beliefs. We also include in our definition of extremism calls for the death of members of our armed forces, whether in this country or overseas.”

    Unavoidably this leads to an uncomfortable conclusion: by the Government’s own definition, ordinary, basic, orthodox Islam is extremism.
    http://libertygb.org.uk/v1/index.php/news-libertygb/6183-extremism-there-is-a-problem-within-islam

    • Linde Barrera says

      Jul 21, 2015 at 7:43 pm

      To Michael Copeland- Excellent work! Bravo! One of the quotes which struck me strange was “Kill all the unbelievers as they would kill you.” I do believe in God, but not their god. So I am not an unbeliever, even if they delight in calling me that term. Furthermore I do not wish to kill anyone, whether I am a believer or an unbeliever. So why is this crackhead making such a profoundly wrong, stupid, and unjustified statement?

      • Georg says

        Jul 21, 2015 at 9:16 pm

        When the Koran says “believer” it is speaking specifically of Muslims. Don’t believe any hogwash from them proclaiming Moses or other prophets were Muslims. It is simple propaganda and effectively a lie as far as a Jew or Christian would be concerned. Muslims are trying to appropriate much more reasonable religions in order to fortify their hateful and bigoted escapade “revealed” by Mohammed and enacted in the millennium and a half since. You are what the Koran terms a “person of the Book” and are, according to them, all but doomed to hell-fire as you are a polytheist, among a litany of other pejoratives.

        • Saleem Smith says

          Jul 22, 2015 at 1:06 am

          We ex-Muslims living with Islam’s formal and informal death penalty for apostasy know that Islamic theology is an exceptionally dangerous and harmful fraud.

          When the non-Muslims say that Islam is a misogynistic religion they are called “bigoted Islamophobes.” The truth is that Mohammedanism is a deeply misogynistic cult that Muslims get killed if they try to leave.

          >>>>>

          Should Women Respect Muhammad and His Islam?

          Muslims love to claim that Islam has granted women equal rights. Sadly, this is not true. The Qur’an states several times that women are to be granted less rights then those enjoyed by men.

          This article will examine the status of women and their rights according to Islam, as well as some of the many disgusting things that Muhammad said regarding women.

          The inherent oppression and degradation of women in Islam is abhorrent. For every good thing Muhammad’s Islam says about women, one can easily find a passage referring to women in the most unkindly of lights. Such is the reality of the fundamentally contradictory religion of Islam. One minute Islam is the perfect religion of peace and justice – the next it commands Muslims to maim, murder and subjugate others. Muslim women should learn the truth about Islam, and fast, if they truly care about their daughters and the future of women in general.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          In controversial verse 4:34 of the Qur’an, men are told to beat their disobedient wives after first warning them and then sending them to sleep in separate beds. This horrendous verse approves of and even sanctions, domestic abuse. As we shall see momentarily, Islamic theology also permits slavery and rape. No person of sound mind and good heart could believe that this is the wish of god. Islam is nothing more than the cult of a long dead, selfish little mad man named Muhammad ibn Abdullah.

          Qur’an, 4:34

          Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme.

          Here is an examination of how other translators render this controversial passage:

          Pickthall: “and scourge them”
          Yusuf Ali: “(And last) beat them (lightly)”
          Al-Hilali/Khan: “(and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful)”
          Shakir: “and beat them”
          Sher Ali: “and chastise them”
          Khalifa: “then you may (as a last alternative) beat them”
          Arberry: “and beat them”
          Rodwell: “and scourge them”
          Sale: “and chastise them”
          Asad: “then beat them”

          Hadith, Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Number 2142:

          Narrated Umar ibn al-Khattab:

          The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife.

          According to Muhammad and his Islam, a woman’s testimony is worth half that of a man’s:

          002:282 “Get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her”

          The Qur’an permits men to marry up to four wives, and have sex with slave girls if they want to do so:

          004:003 “If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice”

          The Qur’an compares women to a field (tilth) that a man is free to use when, and as he chooses:

          002:223 Your wives are a tilth for you, so go into your tilth when you like, and do good beforehand for yourselves, and be careful (of your duty) to Allah, and know that you will meet Him, and give good news to the believers.

          Hadith, Bukhari, Vol. 1, Book 6, No. 301:

          Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

          Once Allah’s Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o ‘Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, “O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women).” They asked, “Why is it so, O Allah’s Apostle ?” He replied, “You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you.” The women asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?” He said, “Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?” They replied in the affirmative. He said, “This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn’t it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?” The women replied in the affirmative. He said, “This is the deficiency in her religion.”

          The Qur’an allows men to marry pre-pubescent girls, stipulating that Islamic divorce procedures shall apply to those who have not yet menstruated.

          065.004: And (as for) those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, if you have a doubt, their prescribed time shall be three months, and of those too who have not had their courses; and (as for) the pregnant women, their prescribed time is that they lay down their burden; and whoever is careful of (his duty to) Allah He will make easy for him his affair.

          Muhammad probably never even existed. Nevertheless, Muhammad is recorded in Islam’s cannonical texts as being a deranged con man who has betrayed women. Muhammad has betrayed all of mankind, in fact. Here is some more of what Muhammad said and did:

          Hadith, Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 460:

          Narrated Abu Huraira:

          Allah’s Apostle said, “If a husband calls his wife to his bed (i.e. to have sexual relation) and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till morning.”

          Hadith, Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3371:

          Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa’id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): 0 Abu Sa’id, did you hear Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-‘azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi’l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing ‘azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah’s Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah’s Mes- senger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born.

          “By him in Whose Hand lies my life, a woman can not carry out the right of her Lord, till she carries out the right of her husband. And if he asks her to surrender herself [to him for sexual intercourse] she should not refuse him even if she is on a camel’s saddle.” — Ibn Majah 1854

      • Evolution says

        Jul 22, 2015 at 2:00 am

        If you believe in God but not their god, you will be paying such a high tax (jaziya), that you would not realistically be able to make ends meet.
        You will be exposed to a lifetime of poverty, suffering, and humiliation.
        There are some things worse than death, and for this cult it’s believing in another god.

  2. Ren says

    Jul 21, 2015 at 7:03 pm

    Islam is a peaceful religion if one considers its peaceful aspect; it is a violent religion if one considers its violent aspect. That is the fondamental incoherence of islam.

    • Westman says

      Jul 21, 2015 at 8:13 pm

      I think you’re on to something. We Infidels read the quran and hadith and look at the chronological order and see that Surah 9 was about last, use logic and determine the last commands of Islam are about violence and abrogate any peaceful earlier passages.

      Muslims, rank and file, are brainwashed into doublethink, considering everything in the Quran is not to be judged by logic. Then the doctrine becomes a smorgasbord to support whatever is needed at the time.

      • Nathan says

        Jul 21, 2015 at 8:49 pm

        Sort of, but they can always fall back onto the strict interpretation when their lives inevitability turn to excrement through following islam and kill everyone in a final last grasp at paradise.

        You can be the worst muslim in the world (and that’s no mean feat!) but getting killed while killing the infidel is a guaranteed short cut to paradise.

      • Lasslax says

        Jul 22, 2015 at 4:07 am

        “Then the doctrine becomes a smorgasbord to support whatever is needed at the time.”

        The essence of Islam as a *religion* or *faith*.

        As a fascistic *ideology* – that´s an other story…

    • Angemon says

      Jul 21, 2015 at 10:02 pm

      Not really, Ren. Both aspects are valid and which one is applicable depends on the situation. Are muslims in a position where they can’t impose their will by force? Then peaceful they must act. Are they in a position of dominance? Then bring in the stonings, polygamy and chopping of limbs, and non-muslims must pay for the privilege of living as 2nd class semi-slaves.

      • Ren says

        Jul 22, 2015 at 12:56 am

        I just tried to being fair to muslims as a majority of them live peacefully. Whether they are in a position to impose their will by force is likely to being actualized or not. Notice I mentioned the «fondamental incoherence of islam» which means the violent aspects very much incorporated in islam while a majority of them don’t act violently.

  3. Judi says

    Jul 21, 2015 at 7:08 pm

    He is between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand he is trying to get the message across that he doesn’t want mosques fuelling hate which encourages these jihadis to join IS and on the other hand he is trying to tell us that there are millions of “peaceful muslims” who just want to live in peace! Sorry Mr Cameron it won’t work unless you close down each and every mosque, discontinue paying benefits and free housing to a man with four wives and dozens of kids and Instead of trying to appease them, stipulate if they don’t like the UK and our way of life, then there are 57 sh**thole countries they can go to. The Brits have had enough!!

  4. mortimer says

    Jul 21, 2015 at 7:10 pm

    Cameron without evidence states that Islam is ‘peaceful’, rather than inherently warlike. Islam’s top authorities contradict David Cameron…

    All Muslim scholars without exception agree on that Muhammad said: “I have been ordered by God to fight with people till they bear testimony to the fact that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his messenger, and that they establish prayer and pay Zakat (money). If they do it, their blood and their property are safe from me” (Bukhari Vol. I, p. 13).

    In his book, “Jurisprudence in Muhammad’s Biography”, the Azhar scholar, Dr. Muhammad Sa’id Ramadan al-Buti says the following (page 134, 7th edition): “The Holy War, as it is known in Islamic Jurisprudence, is basically an offensive war. This is the duty of Muslims in every age when the needed military power becomes available to them. This is the phase in which the meaning of Holy War has taken its final form. Thus the apostle of God said: ‘I was commanded to fight the people until they believe in God and his message …”’

    In his book, “The Method of Islamic Law”, Dr. Muhammad al-Amin, a Saudi Scholar clearly indicates: “No infidel [unbeliever] should be left on his land as it is denoted from Muhammad’s statement: ‘I was commanded to fight the people! ’”

    Dr. ’Afifi Abdul-Fattah in his book ‘The Spirit of Islamic Religion’ says: “Islam has approved war so that the Word of God becomes supreme. This is war for the cause of God (Holy War). Muhammad, therefore, sent his ambassadors to eight kings and princes in the neighborhood of the Arab Peninsula to call them to embrace Islam. They rejected his call. Thus, it became incumbent on the Muslims to fight them.”

    • Georg says

      Jul 21, 2015 at 9:37 pm

      Whenever he says “Islam is peaceful” the question “Compared to what?” comes to mind.

  5. Jacksonl03 says

    Jul 21, 2015 at 7:21 pm

    “The adherents of this ideology are overpowering other voices within Muslim debate, especially those trying to challenge it,” Cameron said. “There are so many strong, positive Muslim voices that are being drowned out.”

    “. . . other voices within Muslim debate . . . ?”

    Gee, I haven’t heard other Muslim voices challenging ISIS, et. al. Must be going deaf, I guess.

    • sinantara says

      Jul 21, 2015 at 9:29 pm

      ISIS? It misbehaves, so it are the Jews framing Islam. They also did the TWC towers. Take this as a rule of the fist. If it is according to British (western Judeo Christian conceived) ways of life (culture) it is the real Islam. If it according the Verses of Woman or the Verses of the Sword or….) it has nothing to do with Islam. So this means, the real Islam is actually the real Christianity (because there exists a corrupted version of Christianity Christians believe in). Hence, to become good Christians convert to Islam…

  6. sidney penny says

    Jul 21, 2015 at 7:52 pm

    “Here’s an “uncomfortable” conversation starter:…”

    What a wonderful way to put it.

  7. sidney penny says

    Jul 21, 2015 at 7:55 pm

    “We do indeed need to “define tightly and closely what extremism is.””

    Let us start with physical violence , especially in the streets of London.

    • Qur'an is Haram says

      Jul 22, 2015 at 3:17 am

      I’ll give you a good definition of “extremist”. Any one who wants Sharia law imposed in Briton.

      That takes care of 65% of British muslims, according to a recent poll. Pack em up and ship em out to one of the Islam-57 shitholes.

      • Pork Rind Addict says

        Jul 22, 2015 at 3:54 am

        That actually is a very reasonable definition. If you want sharia law over British law then you are against British values and the government. You are a traitor.

  8. Angemon says

    Jul 21, 2015 at 8:01 pm

    We all know that career politicians are renowned for their:

    a) – Knowledge of religion

    and

    b) – Incapability of lying

    So when Cameron says that islam is a peaceful religion, he must be right, right? RIGHT?!?!?!

  9. sidney penny says

    Jul 21, 2015 at 8:06 pm

    “we need to define tightly and closely what extremism is rather than perpetuate a deep misunderstanding of Islam.””

    What is the deep misunderstanding of Islam?

    In what way are the vicious, brutal extremists (if IS is that ) have a deep misunderstanding of Islam?

  10. Nathan says

    Jul 21, 2015 at 8:41 pm

    While they are getting drowned out everybody else is getting blown up!

    • ECAW says

      Jul 22, 2015 at 4:32 am

      Haha.

  11. mortimer says

    Jul 21, 2015 at 8:47 pm

    Cameron said, “There are so many strong, positive Muslim voices that are being drowned out.”

    Translation: Any Muslim who has liberal or democratic or modern ideas will be terrorized or killed by the JIHADISTS.

  12. Sam says

    Jul 21, 2015 at 8:50 pm

    Obama, Cameron are brainwashed idiots. People who voted for them are called……..I have no name for them in any language.

  13. Cecilia Ellis says

    Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 pm

    Cameron urged universities, prisons, Internet companies and broadcasters to work with the government to “confront and defeat this poison.”

    – A better approach would be to urge local imams to work within their own mosques to “confront and defeat [the] poison” of Islam. That would take in “gruesome acts of violence” and “other pernicious ideas that feed such viewpoints, such as anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.”

  14. Westman says

    Jul 21, 2015 at 9:05 pm

    Here is another converstation starter for Mr. Cameron:

    The annihilation of the Jews is part of Islam’s eschatology, True or False?

    When was genocide a doctrine of a “peaceful” religion?

    • Georg says

      Jul 21, 2015 at 9:42 pm

      Yes. We’d like his nuanced response.

    • PRCS says

      Jul 21, 2015 at 10:44 pm

      And here’s another conversation starter for Mr. Cameron:

      “Speaking at Kanal D TV”s Arena program, PM Erdogan commented on the term “moderate Islam”, often used in the West to describe AKP and said, “˜These descriptions are very ugly, it is offensive and an insult to our religion. There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that’s it.”

      Source: Milliyet, Turkey, August 21, 2007

      So who is the public to believe — a Muslim who knows his Islam or a “filthy unbeliever” who probably knows the truth about Islam but, unlike his Turkish counterpart, is politically constrained from expressing it?

  15. Jaladhi says

    Jul 21, 2015 at 9:16 pm

    These disgusting people(our politicians) are trying their best to absolve Islam of all atrocious acts that Muslims are doing today. Instead of giving all these gobbledygook explanations why don’t they study what Mohammad said and did in spreading Islam in his time and later by his followers. How did he incite his followers to wage jihad to spread Islam by promising them distribution of all the looted goods and dividing women and young girls and boys among themselves as booty for doing allah’s work and Mo kept 1/5 th of the booty for allah, i. e., himself. And then telling them if they die waging jihad allah will reward them with72 virgins in his brothel in paradise. Lets see how they dny all these facts taken right from hadith, Sira and Quran. So this the great religion of Islam. One should be ashamed to even call it any kind of religion. Yeah, its a religion of mafia alright!!

    But our despicable politicians have no guts to tell the truth and they act like a dhimmi in their own land.

    There are no words to describe them!

  16. sidney penny says

    Jul 21, 2015 at 9:30 pm

    UK’s Cameron insists Islam is a peaceful religion

    Where is the evidence David Cameron?

    Just saying it does not make it so.

    Bit like this Australian academic who tried to reply to Robert Spencer by saying”

    “I was just really speaking out against some of the false assumptions about my religion,” Dr Aly said. “But what they (the hate groups) really want is for me to denounce my religion.

    “By saying that Islam is not about terrorism and Islam is not about beheadings or female genital mutilation, they can’t cope with that because it shatters the basis for their arguments.”

    http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/there-is-nothing-islamic-about-a-beheading-muslims-v-extremists-20140821-106d1c.html

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/08/australia-muslim-university-research-explains-that-theres-nothing-islamic-about-beheading-women-have-equal-rights-in-islam

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/09/australia-muslim-prof-claims-she-got-hate-mail-after-her-deceptions-exposed

    By saying:

    Islam is not about terrorism.

    Islam is not about beheadings.

    Islam is not about female genital mutilation.

    does not make it so.

    There is no evidence or arguments from her.

    If there was I am sure Robert Spencer would be able to cope with it.

    • Westman says

      Jul 21, 2015 at 11:01 pm

      “But what they (the hate groups) really want is for me to denounce my religion.”

      It denounces itself. Keep it, just don’t lie about Jihad as part of Dawa, the second class status and beating of women, permitted slavery of captives, the death penalty for apostasy, the goal of annihilating the Jews, and the sadism of Allah who says we infidels will be forced to eat a blistering fruit, drink boiling water, have boiling water poured on our head, and have our burned skins replaced for futher burning so Allah and you can make fun and entertainment of our suffering. It’s all in your Quran and Hadith. Everyone on this site can read it to you from those sources.

      We aren’t masochistic enough to enjoy the slave role for Allah, it’s for you. Enjoy, though you really should be highly embarrassed.

  17. Wellington says

    Jul 21, 2015 at 9:48 pm

    Cameron will never learn. He may half learn (and even this is doubtful) but being a half learner when you’re the leader of your country serves as ipso facto evidence that you should have never become leader of your country in the first place.

    My God, the West is now governed by such mediocrities (if even this). And I don’t just refer here to the leaders of Western nations but to so many in government in general. For instance, both houses of the American Congress are now led by Republicans and just look at how wussy-ass Congress has been over the past couple of years. Hell, over 300 American cities are defying American federal law by providing sanctuary to illegal immigrants (one of whom, deported FIVE times, killed a 32-year old American female in San Francisco, a “sanctuary city,” just this month) and what has the Republican Congress attempted to do about this————–NOTHING.

    I expect Obama, foolish ideologue that he is, to do much wrong. But I would like to think more guts could be shown by those who know this bastard in the Oval Office is harming America tremendously. Ditto for the Conservative backbenchers in Parliament where Cameron is concerned. Ah, but no such luck. Yep, no such guts. There are toadies here, toadies there, toadies everywhere.

    Oh yeah, one thing is for sure and that is that the blame can be spread around. Quite widely. The rot is not just with the Camerons and Obamas, but with a much wider group. Much wider.

    The West is drifting. And there’s very little relief in sight. Meanwhile, and understandably, the bad guys (this would of course include the Islamic world) are licking their chops. Savoring the meal to come and all that. And does a person like Cameron get any of this? Perhaps a few bits and pieces here and there but nothing more than this. Pathetic.

    • Joseph says

      Jul 21, 2015 at 9:57 pm

      @ Wellington
      A lady friend put it rather bluntly. The Dem. & Rep. are like trains on the tracks to the destruction of the USA, just one is going faster than the other is all.

  18. Georg says

    Jul 21, 2015 at 9:48 pm

    “We respect democracy and the rule of law. We believe in freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of worship, equal rights regardless of race, sex, sexuality or faith. We believe in respecting different faiths, but also expecting those faiths to support the British way of life.” Most all of this is in contradiction with the Koran. There are no two ways about that. We needn’t look further than the passive-aggressive headgear and cold stares of so many Muslims for practical evidence. What is peaceful or desirable about a group who thinks they are fundamentally superior to the other doomed to hell? Not all things can be simply wished away, Mr. Blair.

    “Dissenting is a proud tradition of ours…” Bullshit. There is no religion which despises dissent more than Islam. If perhaps he means dissenting against kaffirs, then it is a recurrent and pathological behavior but certainly nothing to be proud of.

    • Georg says

      Jul 21, 2015 at 9:50 pm

      *Mr. Cameron. Blah… always do that.

    • Tequila Not Taqiyya says

      Jul 22, 2015 at 3:37 am

      The Muslim Brotherhood front group says “Challenging extremist ideology is what we all want”.

      Bullocks……pure taqiyya. Your goal is to spread Islamist ideology and block any impediments to the spread of it. That is the clear purpose of your comment here.

      “Dissenting is a proud tradition of ours…”

      Another lie. Beheading anyone who dares to dissent is a proud tradition of yours.

      For example the Sharia laws of death for apostates, death for blasphemers.

      My first step if I were Cameron is to deport all members of the “Muslim Counsel of Brittan”. That would get the ball rolling and be a good start.

      • ECAW says

        Jul 22, 2015 at 4:46 am

        There’s always the question of where to. I don’t suppose Australia would let us use it as a penal colony again but there is the unpopulated half of the Falkland Islands. It would put the Argies off as well.

        The MCB is an Islamist organisation (ie it takes Mo’s instructions to bring the world under Islam seriously) but even more blatantly so are the Muslim Brotherhood, which is allowed to use London as its European base, and Hizb ut Tahrir which Cameron promised to proscribe but hasn’t.

    • Western Canadian says

      Jul 22, 2015 at 9:13 pm

      “”We respect democracy and the rule of law. We believe in freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of worship, equal rights regardless of race, sex, sexuality or faith. We believe in respecting different faiths, but also expecting those faiths to support the British way of life.””

      Not a single utterance of truth in that load of utter drivel.

  19. Scott says

    Jul 21, 2015 at 10:11 pm

    In the US, Cameron would be considered a slightly left of center RINO.

  20. underbed cat says

    Jul 21, 2015 at 11:20 pm

    Something happened, the connections merged, a light went on in P. M.Cameron’s head, I think he has got it. I was kind of curious all the arrests in the EU, talking denial, it seems he knows, pretty tricky. But very good. Happy cat.

  21. Zimriel says

    Jul 22, 2015 at 12:28 am

    OT: RIP, Patricia Crone.

    Link on nic.

  22. William Lucas Harvey Jr. says

    Jul 22, 2015 at 12:55 am

    Islam is NOT a Religion of “Peace”, in fact NOT a “Religion” at all but a “Cult Ideology”, “Posing” as a “Religion” ONLY to take “Subcersive Advantage” of the “Religious Freedom Laws” of Countries that Offer them.

    Islam’s Goals are World Domination through Islam’s “Grand Deception”, to advance the cause of Islam gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them, through “War” and “Jihad” if necessary.

    http://www.letusreason.org/Islam21.htm “Islam’s goals in their own words”
    http://www.wnd.com/2008/09/76017/ “Ex-Muslim reveals secret goal of Islam”

    AND as to the “Grand Deception” of Islam’s Taqiyya and Kitman, Lying and Deception, Statement of “…positive Muslim voices…are being drowned out…”.

    Islamic LEADERS, such as al-Baghdadi, and Turkey’s PM Erdogan, Including Al Azhar (arguably the Islamic world’s most prestigious Islamic university), and other Islamic LEADERS say “Islam was never a religion of peace. Islam is the religion of war against infidels “, and even say “Moderate Islam is an Insult to Islam : In fact, there is only One Prophet Muhammad, and there is only One Allah, and there is only One Quran, and there is amongst Muslims only One Islam, hence there can be Only One Muslim. A Moderate Muslim is an oxymoron because there is no such thing as a “Moderate Islam.”

  23. medaber_emet says

    Jul 22, 2015 at 2:31 am

    Maybe someone put something in the water that he drinks
    that made Ca-moron to become so incredibly stupid
    you really have to lie through your teeth in order to say that Islam is peaceful
    Islam is exactly the opposite of peaceful
    the pious mujaheddin are pedophile murderous satanic beasts that want to conquer the world
    kill all the infidel man and make sex slaves of all the infidel woman
    another thing that i can think of is that maybe the Muslims have threatened him so much and told him that if he would say anything bad against them they will kill him and his family and so he is petrified with fear and has become a dhimmi to this satanic barbaric cult
    may god save us from those horrible Muslims

  24. medaber_emet says

    Jul 22, 2015 at 2:54 am

    by the way i have seen before the witch bitch that is with Camoron in the picture
    she is a well trained taquiya expert that lie ferociously to present the Islam as a good and peaceful religion.
    I hope that god will punish her

  25. Baucent says

    Jul 22, 2015 at 4:02 am

    “Strong positive muslim voices being drowned out”. If they are being drowned out, it indicates that that are lone voices, crying in the wilderness of orthodox Islamic thought. If they were in fact numerous, then they could not be suppressed.

    “It would be an exercise in futility to pretend there was no link between Islam and the radical ideas espoused by militant who call themselves muslims”

    Here Cameron is doing a complete “U turn” (or flip flop) without admitting it. He himself espoused the “this is not Islam” mantra after the Jihadist murdered Lee Rigby and other later ISIS horrors. He continued on his line denying any link to Islam in the actions of Jihadists for a number of years.

    What has brought about the change? Simply the political realization that the man in the street, does not buy it anymore.

    • ECAW says

      Jul 22, 2015 at 5:11 am

      Yes, perhaps even in Whitehall they notice the wall to wall derision in the comments columns of the Telegraph, and even Al-Graun for God’s sake.

      Perhaps No. 10 even sent out a junior wonk to mingle with the plebs in a pub for a couple of hours to sound out public opinion. “Gosh” he said breathlessly on his return, “You’d never believe….”

  26. ECAW says

    Jul 22, 2015 at 5:03 am

    If it weren’t for the fact that Cameron had brought it on himself by following Blair’s policy of allowing millions of our historical enemy into our homeland, I would sympathise with his attempts to square the circle with mutually contradictory messages, hoping to edge a little closer to reality without kicking off the inevitable civil strife just yet.

    It was a significant moment abandoning the “It’s nothing to do with Islam” line. As I pointed out yesterday (sorry to repeat myself) this has now been modified to “It’s possibly something to do with Islam:

    http://www.ecawblog.wordpress.com

    In due course we can expect “It’s probably quite a lot to do with Islam” and “It’s definitely all about Islam”.

    These will only come about as more of the plots get through and the continuous enemy action becomes impossible to deny. I only hope that some the sacrificial victims necessary to wake us up, and our leaders, are those who are directly responsible for the coming catastrophe. There are enough of them.

    • John Thomas says

      Jul 22, 2015 at 5:42 am

      Yes, indeed. Both in the UK and the USA the leaders really do know what is happening, imo, and who it is that is doing the damage. However, they, particularly Obama, choose to willfully ignore the obvious and prefer to deceive themselves and one another. Until there is the type of “catastrophe” that you suggest, including nuclear, when political action is needed…full blown, 100 per cent action, military and economic and cultural…it will be then a very “iffy” deal as to whether the good guys will win or lose.

    • Mirren10 says

      Jul 22, 2015 at 10:40 am

      ” I only hope that some the sacrificial victims necessary to wake us up, and our leaders, are those who are directly responsible for the coming catastrophe. There are enough of them.”

      Hear, hear !

      I added your blog to my favourites. Love it.

      • ECAW says

        Jul 22, 2015 at 10:57 am

        Thanks Mirren10. That’s nice to know.

  27. Jogi says

    Jul 22, 2015 at 5:19 am

    Today many educated Muslims want to leave Islam but are afraid that they will be killed by their fellow religionists. By adapting the Sanatana way of life they can overcome their dilemma as by adapting the Sanatana way of life they need not change their name, diet, customs or undergo purification ceremonies; or say prayer in an alien language or visit places of worship; all these which attract the attention of their neighbours. See http://sanatanaparishad.blogspot.in

    • ECAW says

      Jul 22, 2015 at 6:00 am

      Quite a pleasant read till we got to Osho, aka Bhagwan the orange clad guru whose ashram in Oregon descended into the usual cult dystopia with machine guns guarding his Rolls Royces.

      • duh_swami says

        Jul 22, 2015 at 8:26 am

        I knew a couple of red clad Rasjeeshi’s in the old days in Berkeley. It all fell apart in Oregon because an ego driven power hungry woman named ‘Sheila’ became the actual leader as the right hand of Rajneesh. I don’t remember all the details but Sheila, was an evil woman, and was involved in murder, and is probably still in prison somewhere.
        The whole Rajneesh movement was corrupt to begin with, and it deserves the history bin…

    • Baucent says

      Jul 22, 2015 at 7:37 am

      The Santana Way of Life; that’s smoking a whole lot of weed isn’t it?

  28. particolor says

    Jul 22, 2015 at 6:15 am

    “Are being Drowned out ?” And so are the Unfortunate Christians that find themselves on a Refugee Boat with Barbarians of Islam 🙁 🙁

    • Peggy says

      Jul 22, 2015 at 9:30 pm

      I don’t hear any peaceful voices from the Muslims and that’s not because most are screaming but because there are none.
      All I hear sometimes are lies.

  29. God Almighty says

    Jul 22, 2015 at 6:47 am

    Did Mohammed Camermoron even realise it was Monday!

    • ECAW says

      Jul 22, 2015 at 7:18 am

      God – Good to have you with us!

      • roger woodhouse says

        Jul 22, 2015 at 11:15 am

        Although Cameron has been slow to accepting Islams role he still wants to control the narrative.Only he can say what we’ve been saying for years and persecuted for saying it too..Better late than never I suppose but in this case about ten years too late

        • bill walker says

          Jul 22, 2015 at 1:27 pm

          I would hope the every western country will be much more careful in permitting them to become citizens. They don’t seem to assimilate as well as people from other religions. Perhaps Mr Cameron can stipulate atheists only in future. 🙂

  30. Godfrey Johnson says

    Jul 22, 2015 at 6:53 am

    The Muslim Council of Britain said that “we uphold and celebrate the rule of law, democracy and rights for all.”

    Oh really? The accompanying pic of Cameron sitting next to the Catholic nun gives the lie to this.

    As does the sight in his Britain of unfortunate women similarly dressed (and worse) and under the yoke of undemocratic and misogynist Islam.

  31. Stephanie says

    Jul 22, 2015 at 7:28 am

    Britain’s David Cameron calls for combating ‘vicious, brutal’ extremists

    Vicious_BRUTAL_extremist#1, 4:56 “Those who reject Our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire; as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the Penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.”

    Clown cameron want to instal “European” Islam.

  32. ECAW says

    Jul 22, 2015 at 7:35 am

    Slightly off topic – I’ve been looking around for formal programmes of proposed curbs on Islam. So far I’ve only found six. Does anyone know of any more in existence? Thanks.

    http://libertygb.org.uk/v1/index.php/about-libertygb/manifesto/398-islam

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/interactive/2014/feb/04/charter-muslim-ukip-gerard-batten

    http://www.qsociety.org.au/downloads/Qon_12_practical_steps_to_stop_Islamisation_20Feb2014.pdf

    http://cjhsla.org/2013/12/28/geert-wilders-10-points-plan-to-save-the-west-geert-wilders/

    IQ al Rassooli:

    1. Stop all immigration from Muslim countries
    2. Do not allow ANY Muslim to become a citizen in any none Muslim country
    3. Ban the recitation of Quran from every mosque because Muhammad’s Quran demands that his followers must NOT obey any constitution NOT from Allah (Sharia)
    4. No mosques should be allowed to be built or opened
    5. Close all so called ‘religious’ Islamic schools called Madrassahs
    6. Ban the wearing of Hijab & Niqab (They are NOT in the Quran)
    7. Any Muslim who cannot follow these simple and logical rules to protect our way of life can pack up and return to any of 57 Muslim Paradise state

    Voegelinian

    1. Deport them all.

    • ICH says

      Jul 22, 2015 at 8:14 am

      I think we all would agree.
      Pipe dream yes but you never know.

      I believe the gun shop owner is one of many that will follow suit.

      Obamas BS mean feck all when he is allowing your soldiers to be killed.

      TIME TO GET SOME BALLS.

    • Herman says

      Jul 22, 2015 at 8:15 am

      6. Ban the wearing of Hijab & Niqab (They are NOT in the Quran)

      Maybe not literally, but the quran does force a dressing code to women.
      It is one of the many women-suppressing rules in the quran.

    • bill walker says

      Jul 22, 2015 at 1:34 pm

      Perhaps some Muslims can be persuaded to report the militant Imams. They are to be invited to cease & desist or return to their homeland via air drop. 🙁

      • quotha raven says

        Jul 22, 2015 at 3:29 pm

        To bill walker – That would be a dangerous move for them, Bill. I think turning in your imam to British authorities could reasonably be seen as apostasy….punishable by death last time I looked. So don’t hold your breath. Cheers! quotha

    • voegelinian says

      Jul 22, 2015 at 3:11 pm

      I already told ECAW before that my recommendation for total deportation does not exclude other measures (such as the one he lists). I’ll give ECAW the benefit of the doubt and assume he never saw that reply I made in the recent past. One hopes he doesn’t keep beating a dead camel on this point (as for example Angemon would under similar circumstances).

      • Angemon says

        Jul 22, 2015 at 5:28 pm

        voegelinian posted:

        “as for example Angemon would under similar circumstances”

        And yet, when I point out that you lie about, and misrepresent, others out of nowhere, you take offense and insist that I’m “attacking” you…

  33. ich says

    Jul 22, 2015 at 7:39 am

    their biggest fear is not us all being killed , its looking
    like we are not politically correct

    Why do they feckin care so much?
    Is it because they have let millions into each country ?
    Imagine the savings on welfare.
    Imagine the terrorist threats gone !

    Our leaders care more about this social experiment
    than keeping us safe

  34. ConcernedCanadian says

    Jul 22, 2015 at 7:44 am

    Dude is all red faced.
    Probably scared hes sitting next to a muslim girl.
    Thats worth a beheading in their book.

    Check him out he looks nervous and hes the damn PM !!

  35. Herman says

    Jul 22, 2015 at 8:18 am

    Who needs enemies with ‘friends’ like this idiot.
    Is it really SO difficult to see the hate, murder, rape and pedophilia in the quran and in the life of their prophet (remember the example for mozlims)

    Before anything else, we need to get rid of ‘leaders’ like this caMORON clown….
    (the pope being the next example of stupidity)

  36. Concerned Canadian says

    Jul 22, 2015 at 8:21 am

    “Challenging extremist ideology is what we all want, but we need to define tightly and closely what extremism is rather than perpetuate a deep misunderstanding of Islam.”

    WTF is wrong with all these robots in ISLAM ?!

    YOU ARE INDEED MESSED UP

  37. Keith says

    Jul 22, 2015 at 8:22 am

    Slightly off target, saw on ITV Lorraine the following interview with someone described earlier in the show as “the only muslim survivor of 7/7” That can lead to the assumption that the muslims were the main target of the bombers. http://www.itv.com/lorraine/hot-topics/taking-on-terrorism
    I admit that she appears to be doing a lot of good to try and stop the “radicalisation” of muslim youth but she really doesn’t know her own religion.
    To show that Islam is the religion of peace she misquoted Sura 5:32 as follows “who ever kills a man it is as if he has killed the whole of humanity” she seems to have left out a large part of the verse and she didn’t bother quoting Sura 5:33 “The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;”
    How is it that she can believe that one paragraph can show that Islam is a religion of peace when it is surrounded by verses that don’t follow that theme.

    • Mirren10 says

      Jul 22, 2015 at 9:32 am

      ”How is it that she can believe that one paragraph can show that Islam is a religion of peace when it is surrounded by verses that don’t follow that theme.”

      Because she’s lying through her teeth.

  38. duh_swami says

    Jul 22, 2015 at 8:46 am

    How hard is it to figure out that those who enable jihad in any way, are jihadists? Spouting constant lies about the innocence of Islam, enables jihad…Nearly all western leaders and their henchmen are jihadi’s, the biggest and most obvious is Rasool Obama. There is only one gov employee that has it right…Marie Harf…All they need is jobs…maybe a pressure cooker or two…

  39. johnf says

    Jul 22, 2015 at 8:54 am

    Mr. Cameron. My guess is you are simply a ‘disillusioned nebulous thinking idealist’. Do you think for a second you will change these people with your modern idiom of silly speaking, you are on a hiding to nothing believe me.

    Please try to understand this, your so called factual severe tunnel vision, is like a little boy crying in the dark to Islam, but your account of Islam is what British the public would like to perceive as their truth. Why I hear you ask, because Islam has been in isolation for 1,400 years, and indoctrinated to the core of their existence over those 1,400 years without let up!!!

    With the major coming of oil over the last 50 years the vast majority of these Arab Muslims have learned ‘not’ to ‘live’ on camels or wondering in the deserts of the Middle East. Seemingly All of a sudden you expect them to become the same as you in far less than my lifetime, not to mention your young age.

    So you think you are fooling the public, thing again, the public realise that you are spouting absolute rubbish with your idiosyncratic ways of feebly attempting to understand Islam.

    Understand this, Islam was born in the deserts of Arabia and North Africa, of extremely fierce warlike tribes, nothing in your life could possibly equate to that history and fables of ISIS not being Islamic. That type of attitude is like attempting to change the natural appearance and element of pure water. Give it up Mr. Cameron, you are making yourself a bigger fool than you have already become!

    Oh, by the way, I lived and worked with these people for 13 years, in many sectors of the Arabian Peninsular, these years were spread over the 50 years of the travels I mentioned earlier.

    Dubai, of the United Arab Emirates, has always led the modern part and more public side of the Middle East. Believe me they are not typical of Arab Countries. Dubai’s Sheik’s palace when I first worked there was a two storey adobe Building, with one strip of ‘Black Top’ tarmac outside. Lebanon for another instance; 50 years ago 85% Christian and French was spoken widely. Today Lebanon is 85% Muslim, dominated by Palestinians. Where are all the Christians now?

    Finally, look up the meaning of “Taqiyya y Kitman” Arabic mixture of Sunni and Shiite words respectively. This when researched will grant you the reason we Westerners, Hindis, Buddhist etc cannot possibly trust Islam, the Prophet Mohammad said so himself.

  40. vlparker says

    Jul 22, 2015 at 8:59 am

    So, according to Cameron islam is a religion of peace………..but it isn’t. He’s got the brains of a toad.

  41. gfmucci says

    Jul 22, 2015 at 11:17 am

    The apostate Muslim voices are being drowned out by Muslims who are practicing Islam.

  42. Foley says

    Jul 22, 2015 at 11:29 am

    If you want to know about Islam, don’t listen to politicians (or anyone else). Everything you need to know about Islam can be found in Islamic texts: the Koran and the Sunna. Yes, it requires a little reading. But you will come away with a good understanding about how peaceful Islam actually is, instead of listening to people who don’t have a clue and never did.

    • ECAW says

      Jul 22, 2015 at 11:36 am

      This way cuts out about 90% of the reading:

      http://www.koran-at-a-glance.com

  43. RaymondofCanada says

    Jul 22, 2015 at 12:31 pm

    I’m glad Cameron recognizes that there is an element of Islam that is drowning out the “peaceful” part of Islam. Cameron needs to seriously consider that he who plays with fire will get burned . . . or, where there is smoke, there’s fire. Why try so hard not to see what Islam is? It’s beyond me . . .

  44. Lisa says

    Jul 22, 2015 at 1:39 pm

    Clearly not that strong if they are being drowned out.

  45. Purushottam Deshmukh says

    Jul 22, 2015 at 1:56 pm

    It is quite interesting to watch Shuja Shafi’s crocodile tears rolling down his cheeks and his so-called ‘wise’ stance. He desires to have for him a tight and a close definition of extremism. He wants everything in a form of document. Doesn’t he know what extremism is? He is a born Muslim. He is a raised Muslim. Islam flows in his blood. No non-Muslim is expected to be as well versed with Islam as he is. And he is expecting non-Muslims explain him what jihad or extremism is. In short, he is desirous to know evil because all of his brain cells are conditioned evil ways. Now his brain cells resist being emptied of violence. On the other hand, survival in a thoroughly secular and democratic nation is must. Therefore, his very endeavor to present him as an innocent (Hindu) cow is a flop show.
    Islam is not misunderstood but deeply understood. Shuja Shafi must not question the non-Muslim scholarship of Qur’an and Islam. He must know that non-Muslims have not perpetuated deep misunderstanding of Islam. He is trying to escape the reality. If non-Muslims define what extremism is, Mr Shafi will not accept it. Does Qur’an allow infidels define Islamic Divinity?

  46. Rich says

    Jul 22, 2015 at 4:35 pm

    Koran commands to kill infidel

    Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. – Sura 2:98

    On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. – Sura 2:161

    Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. – 2:191

    Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah’s religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God’s entirely. – Sura 2:193 and 8:39

    Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. – 2:216
    (different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.

    ….. martyrs…. Enter heaven – Surah 3:140-43

    If you should die or be killed in the cause of Allah, His mercy and forgiveness would surely be better than all they riches they amass. If you should die or be killed, before Him you shall all be gathered. – 3:157-8

    You must not think that those who were slain in the cause of Allah are dead. They are alive, and well-provided for by their Lord. – Surah 3:169-71

  47. mike says

    Jul 22, 2015 at 5:44 pm

    Is this fool related to Nevel Chamberlain?

  48. kay says

    Jul 22, 2015 at 10:12 pm

    The following is directly relevant. Murray vs. Cameron.
    I will propagate the translations in European language venues.

    But first, Douglas Murray on al-Jazeera:
    Douglas Murray – Charlie Hebdo on Al Jazeera [HL]
    90,644
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N76w0pkz7yQ

    “Muslims should not expect non-Muslims to abide by their own belief systems.”
    — Douglas Murray

    Cameron is Islamophilic. Murray, his fellow Brit, Wrote The E-Book on Islamophilia.
    For which see materials following these articles.

    (1)
    What Politicians Say vs. What People Can See
    by Douglas Murray
    July 10, 2015 at 5:00 am

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6137/politicians-isis-islamic
    Send

    Comment (23)

    Translations of this item: German, Spanish, Swedish

    Throughout a bombing-and-murder campaign lasting three decades, the BBC never referred to the Irish Republican Army (IRA) as the “so-called IRA.” If you flatten ISIS’s military, the strong-horse appeal of ISIS would simply go away. If there is nothing to join, no one can join it.

    Cameron’s and Obama’s tactic is to deny something that Muslims and non-Muslims can easily see and find out for themselves: that ISIS has a lot to do with Islam — the worst possible version, obviously, for Muslims and non-Muslims alike, but a version of Islam nevertheless.

    A few days after the massacre of 30 British subjects on a Tunisian beach, the UK Prime Minister, David Cameron, used an interview on the BBC to berate the broadcaster and others for using the term “Islamic State.” Mr. Cameron’s suggestion was that the broadcaster should either refer to the “so-called Islamic State,” use the acronym “ISIL,” or adopt the Arabic term, “Daesh.”

    None of these suggestions is workable. The Irish Republican Army (IRA) was never the “army” of the Irish Republic. It was instead a group of sectarian terrorists who claimed to fight for a community that was largely disgusted by their actions. Yet throughout a bombing and murder campaign lasting three decades, the BBC never referred to the IRA as the “so-called IRA.”

    The group called itself the IRA, and so broadcasters and others referred to it as such. One might wish to call such groups all sorts of things, but calling by the name its leaders adopt is the easiest option of presenting the facts and not getting bogged down in nomenclature.

    The Prime Minister’s other suggestions — that the Islamic State should either be called “ISIL” or “Daesh” — are equally doomed to failure. For ISIL of course simply means “Islamic State of Iraq and Levant,” while “Daesh” is effectively an Arabic acronym of the same.

    If the aim of all this wordplay is that the general public dissociate “Islamic State” from Islam, there seems little hope that this will much help to break the connection. After all, what if someone — anyone — asks what ISIL or Daesh stand for? What should people then say in response?

    Of course, the problem that the Prime Minister got into on this occasion is the same problem he and all other world leaders get into whenever they adopt the “Islam is a religion of peace” line.

    What they are perfectly understandably trying to do is to disentangle more than a billion Muslims worldwide (and specifically the tens of millions of Muslims in Western democracies) from the violent jihadists in their religion. At the same time, they — again understandably — hope to give the message to their non-Muslim publics that they should not blame Muslims everywhere for the actions of this violent minority.

    This is a laudable aim, but it is doomed to failure because members of the public no longer rely on either politicians or the mainstream media as their only sources of information or news.

    They can perfectly well get on the internet and find things out for themselves, and it is in this growing gulf between what politicians say and what the general public can perfectly easily find out for itself that a real long-term danger could emerge.

    —————-

    See also
    (2)
    ‘Religion of peace’ is not a harmless platitude
    1,931 Comments
    27 June 2015 8:51 Douglas Murray Follow @douglaskmurray

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/06/religion-of-peace-is-not-a-harmless-platitude/

    We have spent 15 years pretending things about Islam, a complex religion with competing interpretations. It is true that most Muslims live their lives peacefully. But a sizeable portion (around 15 per cent and more in most surveys) follow a far more radical version.
    The remainder are sitting on a religion which is, in many of its current forms, a deeply unstable component. That has always been a problem for reformist Muslims. But the results of ongoing mass immigration to the West at the same time as a worldwide return to Islamic literalism means that this is now a problem for all of us.
    To stand even a chance of dealing with it, we are going to have to wake up to it and acknowledge it for what it is.

    —————-

    Poll of 1,000 Muslims in Britain for BBC Radio 4 Today
    http://comres.co.uk/polls/bbc-radio-4-today-muslim-poll/

    However, two thirds (68%) say acts of violence against those who publish images of the Prophet can never be justified while a quarter (24%) disagree.

    Half (49%) believe Muslim clerics preaching that violence against the west can be justified are out of touch with mainstream Muslim opinion, while 45% disagree.

    ————

    164 Jihad Verses in the Koran
    Compiled by Yoel Natan
    http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Themes/jihad_passages.html

    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
    This year’s Ramadan Bombathon was the most lopsided ever.

    AL-JAZEERA VIEWERS GENOCIDAL VIEWS ON DEBATE SHOW: WIPE OUT THE ALAWITE IN THEIR ENTIRETY INCLUDING THEIR CHILDREN……..
    Posted on 19/07/2015 by KGS
    http://tundratabloids.com/2015/07/al-jazeera-viewers-genocidal-views-on-debate-show-wipe-out-the-alawite-in-their-entirety-including-their-children.html

    Maher Sherifedine: “The only way for us is over their dead bodies.”

    ————-

    “Democracy and freedom is no good for the British, no good for Afghanistan, and in fact we need an alternative. Unlike man-made law, the Sharia…is good in all times and all places…All of you are in one camp, in the camp of non-Islam, against the camp of the Muslims..”
    — Anjem Choudhary, UK Head of al-Muhajiroun
    Maajid Nawaz debates Anjem Choudary
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BrueU4xd2w

    —————-

    “Mohammed made me an atheist…I’m not sure this is about paradigms. I think it’s about FACTS.”
    — Douglas Murray
    Douglas Murray – Islam Is Not a Religion of Peace
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TChhWlM8LsE

    Douglas Murray – IQ2 – Europe Should Shut the Door on Immigration
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDGejzIi8ts

    ——————-

    Douglas Murray wrote the book on Islamophilia. See
    Islamophilia – The Left’s Fear of Critizing Islam
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uM_0D3DUQpE&list=PL-AzW58MV80EtZ7VoV67cOvIRX0wsqPtm

    The above link connects to a set of Douglas Murray videos on youtube.
    I have studied a number of excellent D.M. videos.

    Also
    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/author/douglas-murray/

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/author/Douglas+Murray

    I can give more info on Douglas Murray. But this establishes the bridge and gives the resources. Douglas Murray is one of the key people working this issue. He may not be so well known in America as Robert Spencer or Pamela Geller. But his front line work is sharp, effective and of highest importance. He is a major voice and a brilliant debater.

    11 January: Douglas Murray joins Big Questions debate
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nx66yEBzWg

    He gets the public discussion off the wrong track and gets it back on the right track. Nothing is more important than this.

  49. lester says

    Jul 23, 2015 at 7:45 am

    What kind of “bug” has been placed in Cameron’s ear to give him such Ideas on Islam and Koran; beliefs?? Maybe he should just read some of the Koran and stop listening to all the Muslim propaganda they spread! Next, I wonder if he will be bowing toward Mecca 3 times daily and wearing a head covering, [like women do].!

  50. Simon Néhmé says

    Jul 23, 2015 at 8:35 am

    Islam is not a ” peaceful religion ” but a hate ideology; searching and getting business is another question. One is not obliged for the purpose to make Mr. Cameron’s wrong salamaleiks among others, but remain dignified in all circumstances.

  51. Doc says

    Jul 23, 2015 at 3:46 pm

    Why do leaders insist on pushing this false narrative. Heavens don’t insult the poor muslims with the truth about their evil violent cult.

  52. Terkel says

    Jul 23, 2015 at 4:05 pm

    Like many others, I awaited Cameron’s “ground-breaking” speech with interest. Apart from the usual cr*p about Islam being a peaceful religion (he has a problem with that phrase, I call it Islamo-Tourette’s) he actually talked the talk, at last. After I picked myself up off the floor I realised that on the balance of probabilities nothing will change – he’s good at talking the talk, but whether he’ll walk the walk is entirely another matter. He’s given himself five years – the period of his office – to change things, but I and many others are certain he’ll kick this into the long grass and do what he usually does – naff all (as they say in Blighty). Of course he’ll organise sub committees and focus groups, but he’ll leave the whole sorry mess for the next government to sort out – that is if it doesn’t crawl out of the long grass before then, and bite him in his sorry ass.

  53. kay says

    Jul 24, 2015 at 5:58 am

    UK Independence Party: ‘The West Is Turning a Blind Eye to Radical Islam’

    UKIP Deputy Leader:‘The West Is Turning a Blind Eye to Radical Islam
    by Editors · July 9, 2015
    http://www.faithfreedom.org/ukip-deputy-leaderthe-west-is-turning-a-blind-eye-to-radical-islam/

    Strasbourg, FRANCE – The west has encouraged radical Islam by turning a blind eye to the extremes of Islam when it suits us to do so, UKIP’s deputy leader Paul Nuttall has said.

    by Donna Rachel Edmunds

    Speaking in a debate on the recent terrorist attacks carried out in France, Tunisia and Kuwait, Mr Nuttall warned his fellow Parliamentarians that what he had to say would be “unpalatable” and “politically incorrect to some,” but added “the simple fact is the one thing they [the attacks] had in common was that they were done in the name of Islam.”

    Referring to claims made by others, including Prime Minister David Cameron, in the wake of the attacks that the they had ‘nothing to do with Islam’, Mr Nuttall said that comments such as those “are not only ludicrous, but also extremely dangerous.”

    Following the Tunisia massacre in which 38 people, mostly Britons, lost their lives, Mr Cameron insisted that the killings were done “not in the name of Islam. Islam is a religion of peace.”

    Mr Nuttall also said that the West was complicit in encouraging radical Islam to prosper, as “we turn a blind eye to misogyny, homophobia, limb amputation and the funding of extremism in return for arms deals and oil.”

    And he called on politicians across the west to stand up for liberal values, or face being judged by history as “the generation that surrendered our hard fought liberal western democracy in favour of something darker, more intolerant, and wholly illiberal.”

    ===============

    Set up a Royal Commission into the Values of Islam

    by Editors · June 29, 2015

    http://www.faithfreedom.org/set-up-a-royal-commission-into-the-values-of-islam/

    Petitioning Prime Minster of the United Kingdom Rt Hon David Cameron MP and 2 others

    Unlike other religions, Islam’s doctrine is rarely subjected to any public scrutiny.

    A full understanding of its teachings, doctrine and objectives is crucial in order that our government can make appropriate, fact based and effective policy decisions on issues including the management of Islamist groups, immigration, law and order and education.

    We ask that the UK Government establish a Royal Commission to consider and report whether the values of Islam as they appear in the text of the Quran and from the reported words and actions of Mohammed in the Sunnah are consistent with the British values of individual freedom, tolerance, democracy and the rule of law.

    The European Court of Human Rights has already ruled that Islamic Sharia law is inconsistent with the European Convention on Human Rights (Refa Partisi and others v Turkey (2003).(1)

    The threat from terrorist groups claiming to be motivated by the values of Islam has risen markedly over the past fifteen years. These groups include Al Quaeda, Al Shabaab, Boko Haram, Hamas, Hezbollah, ISIS, the Muslim Brotherhood, Lashkar-e-Taiba, the Taliban, etc. Such groups invariably reject western-style liberal democracy in favour of extremely illiberal rules, enforced with marked violence over communities that they control and a ‘holy war’ or jihad against the non-Muslim world. Together these groups constitute an international phenomenon that poses a clear security threat to the UK.

    All these groups claim their actions as being authentically Islamic, yet the Prime Minister has declared that such groups’ actions are a ‘perversion’ of Islam. In doing so he echoes the orthodoxy amongst world leaders that however regularly Islamic groups quote Islamic texts to support their actions, and despite the fact that BBC research has shown 27% of UK Muslims (2) had ‘sympathy with their motives’, still we are told Islamic terrorism has ‘nothing to do with Islam’. The Prime Minister did not set out his reasoning in detail or with direct reference to any Islamic source material and we believe it is important that the original texts of Islam be examined to test this reasoning.

    There are over a hundred instances in Islamic texts where violence is prescribed in Islam:

    “Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land.” [Quran 5: 33]
    Ibn Khaldun, one of Islam’s most respected philosophers, stated this about Islam:

    “…holy war is a religious duty, because of the universalism of the Muslim mission and (the obligation to) convert everybody to Islam either by persuasion or by force”.(3)
    The history of violent Islamic conquest (4), current trends in Islamic terrorism and so-called ‘radicalisation’ in the UK as well as renewed global interest in establishing global Muslim Sharia law (a Caliphate) all need to be considered when referencing this inquiry.

    The issue of whether the values of Islam are consistent with British values is of great and urgent concern to all seeking to create a fair and tolerant society.

    We, the undersigned, agree that a rigorous and unbiased examination of Islam’s doctrine, as reported in its original texts, is necessary in order to assess whether Islam and its increasing influence in Britain poses a threat to British values, and the preservation of the Human Rights of the UK population as a whole.

    =====================

    http://wikiislam.net/wiki/European_Court_of_Human_Rights_on_Shariah_Law

    Shari’ah

    With the banning of the Welfare Party (Refah Partisi, RP), an Islamist political party in Turkey, and a further sanction in the form of a ban on its leaders sitting in Parliament or holding certain other forms of political office for a period of five years, the European Court of Human Rights determined on July 31, 2001, that “the institution of Sharia law and a theocratic regime, were incompatible with the requirements of a democratic society.” The Court held that the sanctions imposed on the applicants could reasonably be considered to meet a pressing social need for the protection of democratic society, since, “on the pretext of giving a different meaning to the principle of secularism, the leaders of the Refah Partisi had declared their intention to establish a plurality of legal systems based on differences in religious belief, to institute Islamic law (the Sharia), a system of law that was in marked contrast to the values embodied in the Convention.”[1]

    The ban was upheld by the ECtHR on February 13, 2003. Noting that the Welfare Party had pledged to set up a regime based on the Shari’ah, the Court found that, “a sharia-based regime was incompatible with the Convention, in particular, as regards the rules of criminal law and procedure, the place given to women in the legal order and its interference in all spheres of private and public life in accordance with religious precepts.”[2] It considered that “sharia, which faithfully reflects the dogmas and divine rules laid down by religion, is stable and invariable.”[3]

    ============

    2 – “Acts of Violence can be justified” – 27% of UK Muslims agree with this statement.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11434695/Over-a-quarter-of-British-Muslims-have-sympathy-for-the-Charlie-Hebdo-terrorists.-That-is-far-too-many.html

    3 – January 1, 1336 – Ibn Khaldun himself: “in the Muslim community, the holy war is a religious duty, because of the universalism of the Muslim mission and (the obligation to) convert everybody to Islam either by persuasion or by force.” In Islam, says Ibn Khaldun, the person in charge of religious affairs is concerned with “power politics,” because Islam is “under obligation to gain power over other nations” (Muqaddimah, trans. Rosenthal, p. 183).

    http://berkleycenter.georgetown.edu/quotes/ibn-khaldun-on-holy-war-as-religious-duty

    4. ‘Islamic Jihad, Legacy of Forced Conversion and Imperialism and Slavery’ by M.A. Khan
    http://www.islam-watch.org/books/islamic-jihad-legacy-of-forced-conversion-imperialism-slavery.pdf

    ‘Based on meticulous investigation of the Quran, the author has abundantly demonstrated that Islam—more specifically, its doctrine of Jihad or holy war—unequivocally calls for forced conversion and enslavement of non-Muslims and for the establishment of an imperial Islamic rule globally. Thereafter, based on extensive study of the original biographies and traditions of the Prophet Muhammad, he demonstrates how these commands of the Islamic God, of eternal relevance, were scrupulously applied by Prophet Muhammad: he engaged in forced conversion and enslavement, and established the first imperial Islamic state in Arabia. The author predicts that Islamic Jihad, in all likelihood, will intensify over coming decades with serious consequences for humankind, for the infidel and Western world in particular.

    – Ibn Warraq, Author of Why I Am Not a Muslim

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