“None are believed to have served in the Middle East, or to have been particularly outspoken against Islamic State.” Those who cower in fear before the threat of the Islamic State should remember: there is no way to tell when or where they will strike. The proper response to them is not to live in fear, but to stand resolutely and defend the principles of a humane and just civilization.
“Islamic State posts Australian hit list after hacking addresses, mobile numbers,” by Nino Bucci, Sydney Morning Herald, August 12, 2015:
Islamic State has hacked the personal information of Australian Defence Force employees and their relatives, a Victorian MP, and several public servants, and urged home-grown terrorists to attack them, in a chilling online breach.
Many of the Australians whose mobile phone numbers, email addresses, online passwords, and home suburbs were published had no idea their safety had been compromised until contacted by Fairfax Media on Wednesday.
Islamic State bragged for hours on social media about the dump of information relating to more than 1400 people, most of them supposedly US military personnel, and accompanied it with a terrifying call-to-arms.
But Australian authorities were caught on their heels, with Defence personnel and the Victorian MP among those who were unaware of the hack.
This is despite Australia’s most senior Islamic State militant, former Melbourne man and terror recruiter Neil Prakash, posting links to the information on social media about 4.30am on Wednesday.
A message from the Islamic State Hacking Division, which accompanied the spreadsheet of personal details, warned: “know that we are in your emails and computer systems, watching and recording your every move.
“We have your names and addresses, we are in your … social media accounts.
“We are extracting confidential data and passing on your personal information to the soldiers of the khilafah [caliphate], who soon with the permission of Allah will strike at your necks in your own lands!”
Fairfax Media found the details of at least eight Australians in the list, including a mother who is employed by the ADF, a Victorian MP, employees or former employees of NSW Health, and an Australian National Audit Office employee.
The brother of a Defence force employee and a former Army reservist were also compromised.
Fairfax Media will not publish the names of those on the list.
Half of those whose information had been leaked – including the MP, a Defence employee, the former reservist, and the relative of a Defence employee – confirmed they had first learnt about the breach when contacted by Fairfax Media….
Prakash, a former attendee of the Al-Furqan Islamic Centre in Springvale South, urged his Twitter followers to share the hacked information, also tweeting “cyber war got em shook!”.
Other prominent militants, including British man Junaid Hussain, who is third on a CIA kill list of Islamic State operatives, also used social media to promote the leak and encourage attacks.
The Australians compromised by the hack appear to have few connections to each other, but at least half were employed by Defence, had been a reservist, or had a family member in the armed forces.
None are believed to have served in the Middle East, or to have been particularly outspoken against Islamic State.
Curiously, at least three had graduated from Queensland universities.
Most of the passwords listed related to the personal email accounts or devices of those who were hacked, rather than work accounts.
Some of the information was outdated, but it is possible to locate somebody’s position using only their mobile phone number….
Diana says
Oh My God! This is just awful and I am at a loss to know what to do and how to protect ourselves from this incessant and ever worsening nightmare.
As an Aussie – this is waaaay too close to home. I feel sick – palpably sick to my stomach. Just being here on this website may just attract the nutters’attention. Terror is supposed to work like that isn’t it?
I WILL NOT GIVE IN to terror which I guess is the evil plan of these nutters. But what can I do? Most of my “oh so righteous” family think I’m too worried about this threat and I should somehow be “more compassionate”. What about my real compassion towards my own family, friends and community. Or the country and freedoms I hold – we almost all hold – so very dear? Tonight for the first time I actually “get it” at a truly gut level around about how the besieged Israelis must feel each and every day.
Tomorrow I am joining Friends of Israel AND the new Australian Liberty Alliance party. Any further suggestions from my fellow bloggers would be greatly appreciated.
When oh when will we all, and all our politicians who can actually do something about this evil threat, finally wake up here in Australia and take some serious and decisive action against these murderous fascists?
Linde Barrera says
To Diana- I am responding to your 11:15 am post of Aug 22, 2015. Your outrage and upset mentioned to this disgusting subject is very understandable. Contact your elected officials. Go to their offices. Find out what legislation they are enacting to maintain peace and security for the law abiding public. Find out what the punishments are for people who break laws to disrupt one’s privacy and threaten one’s life. Keep believing in freedom: the right to free speech; the right to assemble; the right to a free press; the right to believe in whatever religion/faith based principles you choose, or none at al; the right to protect yourself using a weapon. I live in Brooklyn, NY. (An electrician friend of mine here carries a gun because he goes into certain nasty buildings to do work. He has a gun permit.) Remember too, this true proclamation from Ben Franklin, one of the Founding Fathers of the US: “Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God”. I, for one, see the doctrine of Islam as tyranny. Above all, do not become complacent. Best regards.
ninetyninepct says
“Contact your elected officials. Go to their offices.” – WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.
Arm yourselves and start fighting back. The best defense is a good offense, therefore you can plead self defense. Muzzies round up hundreds, lock them in a church and burn it – do the same with mosques. Be proactive. Threats – everywhere. On the street, in shops, at the gas station. Intimidate, threaten, force them off the bus or rain, block them on the sidewalk. Only in that way will they feel at home. Cause them to live in fear – every minute. Phone at all hours of the night, scare them. Follow their children. Tell your kids to scare them away, don’t play with them because they are bad people.Demand they leave and go to where they feel comfortable, to the pigsty they love.
abad says
Write to your politicians about the Muslim problem and make it clear to them that Islam is a very serious threat to your nation.
Good luck.
JIMJFOX says
“As an Aussie – this is waaaay too close to home.”
About time that Australians and others woke up to the fact that
JIHAD IS GLOBAL. Hiding under the comfort blanket of ‘it can’t
happen here’ is pure foolishness.
I applaud your decision to take action; the other action is to
educate your blissfully ignorant family about islam. You owe
it to them…
ninetyninepct says
There is exactly the same mentality here in Canada with many people as well as the Liberal and New Democratic Parties. The stupid Liberal leader Trudeau wants to give isis parkas and sit down to talk them out of their odd interpretation of the koran, an official piece of hate literature. The ndp want to open immigration to muslim terrorists to assimilate them into Canadian society. Mulcair, the ndp leader, has a good friend – Nazih Khataba, who is a known and self admitted jihadist and isis supporter. Google or Bing khataba. Pretty scary about the kind of terrorist that supports the NDP and that the ndp attracts.
JIMJFOX says
DIANA
You can join a gun club- it’s easy. Train on a range, learn to shoot various weapons
that are legal in Australia. After 6 months and a police clearance certificate you can buy a gun of your choice. Then at least you will feel more secure.
I did this and enjoyed the learning process. The 9mm Glock is a nice piece but the 357 Magnum is far too big/heavy!!
carpediadem says
Diana, there are lots of worthy causes to contribute to if you are so inclined.
Do contribute to Friends of the IDF which directly helps wounded Israeli soldiers – the entire Israeli community – in their battle against jihad.
https://donate.fidf.org/page/contribute/support-Israels-soldiers-today
They would really appreciate that.
Oh, and let’s stop funding jihadis like Hamas and the Palestinian Authority. That would help too!
ES says
Al-Furqan Islamic Centre , that’s the hive, yet for some reason it was operating for ages. Idiocy!
Diana says
Well – it may have been the hive but hooray it’s been closed as of April this year. Please see:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-23/melbournes-al-furqan-islamic-centre-closes-effective-immediately/6414316
…. plus plenty of other related posts from that same time. I guess plenty of this now extinguished hive’s drones have flown off to make new nests. Time for some killer bees of our own methinks!
Sheesh – I knew it was bad – but OMG – this bad???? And still the denial goes on.
Un-f@cking-believable but sadly oh so true
gravenimage says
One small bit of good news, Diana.
Qur'an is Haram says
The Australian authorities and all Western country authorities need to wake-up.
We need RELIGIOUS PROFILING everywhere.
Frederick says
Every US Soldier is now regularly being advised not to allow any information about their service and/or personal background to be published.
For this very reason.
Papa Whiskey says
The proper response to them is not to live in fear, but to stand resolutely and defend the principles of a humane and just civilization.
The proper response to them is not to live in fear, but to obtain proper weaponry and skill at arms.
JIMJFOX says
Yes. PROPER being the relevant condition.
ninetyninepct says
And use them as you please. If arrested, demand a trial by jury of your peers, meaning others just like you who own and use legal weapons for self defense NOT GUILTY. Masked faces and ugly black beards are good for practice. Alley achbar.
Davegreybeard says
You Aussies need to start the conversation about “sensible” gun laws.
That is, “shall issue” gun permits for those law abiding citizens of sound mind and good character who have completed reasonable and affordable weapons training. “Shall issue” means that after the citizen has met the requirements the state must issue the permit, it is not left to the whim of the local police chief or sheriff.
Our battle in the U.S. arguably began in 1987 when Florida became the first major state to enact “shall issue” concealed carry laws. At that time, there were the predictable screams and shrieks, from Liberals about “road rage” shootings and general “blood in the streets.” But it didn’t happen. In fact CRIME WENT DOWN!
As some would remark “Society is safer when criminals don’t know who’s armed.”
Since 1987 we have gone from just a handful of “shall issue” states to 41, with constant political pressure (mainly from the National Rifle Association) on the others to enact “sensible” gun laws. We are also working and making progress on nationwide “reciprocity” laws so that permits issued in one state will be recognized by the others, much as drivers licenses are now.
I realize it’s a long uphill battle, but the journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step.
Diana says
Thank you for your post above – but sorry – there is NO WAY we Aussies will loosen the gun laws here. It is just politically impossible right now or anytime in the foreseeable future. We do not have the “right to bear arms” like you do it the US and the local sentiment is not pro-guns but very anti-guns. Very anti-guns ok? No NRA here spouting stuff like “guns don’t kill people, people kill people”. Well guns DO KILL people and that is exactly what they are designed to do. Please note that our gun murder rate is less than 1/12th of that in the USA – or only 0.84 per 100,000 of the population here versus 10.64 in the gun-laden USA. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
Why then would we want to make guns more readily available? We have dozens of otherwise sane looking and sounding Aussie-born people actually converted to this death cult. How on earth can we differentiate between sane Aussies and these fringe nutters?
Psychologists and psychiatrists say about 1-2 % of all people are psychopaths – whether islamic or not. And I’ll bet the rate of psychopathy is higher in that so-called religion, most especially among new “converts” to this abomination. Psychopaths are said to be very plausible liars – the perfect example of that premise would have to be moham-MAD himself. Psychopaths are likely to be over-represented in those now bearing arms and for all the wrong reasons. It is never the vast majority of any population that we need to worry about – it is the small minority.
Given the nature of islam – and their oft-repeated pretense (out & out lie) that the violent islamists in their midst are but a tiny minority – this is a recipe for disaster. Things are bad enough right now! So noo thanks – I truly believe that having even more guns is the exact wrong way to go.
Davegreybeard says
Diana, I’m sure you mean well, but I can’t let you get away with this:
“…there is NO WAY we Aussies will loosen the gun laws here. It is just politically impossible right now or anytime in the foreseeable future.”
Quite so, and it will remain impossible until the light goes on and people start making the case for the God given right to self defense. Is the argument really that hard to make? Really??
“Why then would we want to make guns more readily available?”
So that you are not enslaved or have your throat cut, or your wives, mothers and children raped in front of you, or generally slaughterd like sheep… for starters…
“How on earth can we differentiate between sane Aussies and these fringe nutters?”
Well you can’t really.
But the “fringe nutters” always seem to be able to acquire the necessary weapons for mayhem anyway, regardless of the foolish laws you force on the innocent – haven’t you noticed?
“Psychopaths are likely to be over-represented in those now bearing arms and for all the wrong reasons.”
And now you display just how deeply you’ve drunk the kool aid. The vast majority of Americans are booth armed and sane. Violent crime is at a 37 year low, yet we have more guns than ever before. Get that? More guns, LESS crime.
“Things are bad enough right now! So noo thanks – I truly believe that having even more guns is the exact wrong way to go.”
Oh “Things” will get much, much worse Diana.
Prepare to watch as your people are slaughtered before your eyes, helpless, before the Muslim Barbarians.
An intelligent person, one not befuddled by PC/MC foolishness, would consider other options.
Will says
It was known long before the “gun laws” that lunatics, terrorists and criminals have no respect for any law, so why all the fuss that no one else can be defended by a gun as we all knew it but believed the bull effluent poured out by politicians and did not disagree.
Frankly I have contempt for this law and the law society in this country and almost all of its politicians. IMO if you seriously threaten the life of any member of my family by a physical act or presence in my home then I am fully entitled to kill you and **** the law
I will stop now so as to not give the feds an excuse to kick in my door as they are so useless that I guess I will be seen as a threat.
Diana says
Davegreybeard,
“I’m sure you mean well, but I can’t let you get away with this” … Get away with what exactly? Sharing my opinion? Stating the facts here in Australia? Even if that offends you? In a free-speech forum?????
Nor can I have you “get away” with such allegedly logically unsustainable arguments purporting to be reason in defence of your personal opinion and that of many of your citizens. You are certainly entitled to your opinions – because you believe in freedom of speech – and I am equally entitled to my opinion and to voice how it is here in Australia. And to explore all possible alternatives not just the usual islamic recourse to yet more violence and bloodshed.
Did you forget that we Aussies are perhaps your closest allies and known for our grit, determination and ingenuity? Does insulting me/us and our view of reality when it does not coincide with yours really add to the debate? I think not! You will catch more flies with honey than with vinegar (or kool aid?)
In response to “…there is NO WAY we Aussies will loosen the gun laws here. It is just politically impossible right now or anytime in the foreseeable future” you wrote : “Quite so, and it will remain impossible until the light goes on and people start making the case for the God given right to self defense. Is the argument really that hard to make? Really??”
Until the light goes on??? Like as if we &/or I did not realise there is a problem with islamist ideologies! Over half of all Aussies see just that but we are (like any democratic society like we here all say we support – right???). We Aussies also know that violence begets further violence – which is counter-productive. So yes the p!ss weak argument really is a bridge too far. And I think dead wrong.
Exactly what use is yet another gun in private hands in the event of yet another suicide attack? Crazy jihadis (aka suicide bombers etc) imagining that they have scored a one way ticket to paradise by way of their evil destructive acts like detonating IEDs (eg urea & diesel or pressure-cooker bombs) on public transport. or flying planes into skyscrapers are (face it) already dead (along with who knows how many innocents) and thus cannot be deterred by many now traumatised citizens carrying guns.
Maybe Davegreybeard prevention is better than having undisciplined and perhaps self- righteous armed vigilantes riding shotgun after these disgusting events? Maybe the pen really is mightier than the sword. We are reasonable people and by making our reasoned peace promoting views known and taking sensible risk management measures we can fight this another way? This really is a battle of ideologies – truth, freedom and justice on our side and crazy pseudo-religious fascism (islam) on the other side.
Check this out (pun intended) http://www.praguemonitor.com/2015/08/13/statues-stoned-women-placed-prague-protest-against-islam this is one way to raise awareness and STOP the unczeched (oops another pun) influx of islamists into our midst. Another approach and more likely to work than more gun toting citizens.
Then you descend into more gratuitous personal attacks on me by saying … ” And now you display just how deeply you’ve drunk the kool aid. The vast majority of Americans are booth armed and sane. Violent crime is at a 37 year low, yet we have more guns than ever before. Get that? More guns, LESS crime.”
Wrong again Dave! You are obviously unaware of the verifiable “Freakonomics” take on Roe vs Wade. Crime rates dropped BECAUSE there were far less unwanted children who are (surprise surprise) much more likely to engage in crime. It WAS NOT having more guns that caused the drop in crime but another huge social change instead (easy access to abortions after Roe v Wade) Homework time! Please see: http://freakonomics.com/2005/05/15/abortion-and-crime-who-should-you-believe/
So IN SPITE OF there being more guns there is less crime simply BECAUSE there are less criminals (who in the US are/were sadly mainly poor blacks in inner urban centres like LA, NY, Chicago & DC etc) – that is until this wave of crazy fascist jihadis came along pounding their qurans and shouting allah akbar and kill the kuffars etc!
And I say kool aid sucks – I NEVER drink that alleged rubbish – but you drink as much as you like – it’s a yankee invention after all. We have more refined tastes over here – not a big fave with the NRA over there is it? Just do not so dismissively insult me please – we are (remember) entitled to our own opinions and we are allies are we not? So disagree by all means but please do not descend down to the level of our mutual foes and sling any further insults just because we do not agree. We are almost all here as free citizens (except the odd trolls) and all worried or rightly alarmed about the greatest threat ever to truth freedom and civilisation as we know it. Namely the scourge of islam.
Cheers Dave
Diana says
Well I am an intelligent person and most certainly NOT “befuddled by PC/MC foolishness,” and unlike you it seems I would and indeed DO “consider other options.”
Those options – perhaps ones you have never considered – would have to include civil debate, informed and intelligent responses and appeal to reason instead of the typical thoughtless emotion-fueled knee-jerk islamist fascist ad hominen attacks and the “let’s all grab a gun and go murder someone”. No wonder there are so many homicides in the USA.
Champ says
Diana wrote:
“…and the ‘let’s all grab a gun and go murder someone.’ No wonder there are so many homicides in the USA.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Under our U.S. Constitution it’s our second amendment right to bear arms. And I agree with you that it isn’t ok to insult Australians–yet you liberally mock Americans. Hmm, that’s a double standard no matter where you live. You can’t have it both ways.
TheBuffster says
The psychopaths don’t care about the law. In fact, they revel in getting away with breaking the law. They see themselves as above the law, above the rest of humanity. They’ll get their guns on the black market. Or they’ll use swords and knives and axes and clubs or their bare hands against physically weaker people who don’t stand a chance, unless they’re armed with a gun.
Diana says
this is a reply to Champ – there’s no button to reply above so here goes.
No I am not having it both ways – YOU chose to chop only a small part of my comment and totally without the foregoing comment or the context. I actually wrote this:
“Those options – perhaps ones you have never considered – would have to include civil debate, informed and intelligent responses and appeal to reason instead of the typical thoughtless emotion-fueled knee-jerk islamist fascist ad hominen attacks and the “let’s all grab a gun and go murder someone”. No wonder there are so many homicides in the USA.
But you Champ – you chose only this – no reference to Dave’s prior rants about us being stupid and drinking too much kool aid either ….. you edited it down to only this:
“…and the ‘let’s all grab a gun and go murder someone.’ No wonder there are so many homicides in the USA.”
Jee – that’s a whole different comment isn’t it Champ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And yes I totally accept that: “Under our U.S. Constitution it’s our second amendment right to bear arms.”
Yes that was written long ago when you had to load shot one at a time and not now when there are weapons that can fire off ridiculous amounts of ammo and have laser accuracy from a much greater distance. See it’s all in the context isn’t it Champ?
Then you said – And I agree with you that it isn’t ok to insult Australians – yet you liberally mock Americans. Hmm, that’s a double standard no matter where you live. You can’t have it both ways.
No I don’t liberally mock Americans – I was just defending myself from the truly insulting rants directed at me and accusing me of being an idiot who drinks “too much kool aid” (yuk!!!) etc posted by one American who has never considered any alternative to yet more guns.
And Champ – the US gun murder rate truly leaves a significant (try 1200%) more per capita of YOU GUYS for dead.
Angemon says
Diana posted:
“Yes that was written long ago when you had to load shot one at a time and not now when there are weapons that can fire off ridiculous amounts of ammo and have laser accuracy from a much greater distance. See it’s all in the context isn’t it Champ?”
Champ says
Great video, Angemon! And he shot the ole “that was written long ago when you had to load shot one at a time” …’silly argument’ to hell.
danny d says
don’t have a gun ,it’s your loss. we have gun problem here in usa because we have blacks living in poverty. not because law abiding citizens have guns. but when you need it. it wont be there and you might die.
ninetyninepct says
The only sane alternative is to ban ALL islam and it’s followers. Instant deportation of present muslim cultists.They can appeal from Syria.
JIMJFOX says
“gun permits for those law abiding citizens of sound mind and good character”
Oh yeh,… just like these loons?? Fine, sane, upstanding citizens! Fully vetted, of course. WTF do you smoke, bro?
http://timelines.latimes.com/deadliest-shooting-rampages/
JIMJFOX says
Australia has SENSIBLE gun laws.
NOT walk out of the mental hospital, into the local gun store, buy an AK47 and 1000 rounds, a couple of automatic pistols, then off to the nearest school…
David M says
Fully agree Jim, it is better to have no guns at all, as is largely the case here, than the situation in the US where anyone who wants one can have one. There is no comparison between gun massacres in Australia & the US. Having said that, it is too late for the US to disarm as if the good guys over there disarm that will just leave the guns in the hands of the criminals, a very bad situation, plus it is in their constitution to be able to possess a gun. We like our gun laws, they are happy with their laws, that’s the way it will stay.
Fat Tony says
David M – “we like our gun laws” – speak for yourself – I, and many people I know, don’t like our gun laws. They have left us defenceless against the scumbags.
And guess what – when the government disarmed the “good guys” over here, that left the guns in the hands of the criminals here too.
If you are quite happy to watch your family butchered by Muslims, then stand right back and do so. But don’t deny me the ability to do something about it cos you don’t have the guts to stand up to anyone.
Angemon says
Davegreybeard posted:
“As some would remark “Society is safer when criminals don’t know who’s armed.””
I wholeheartedly agree with that.
carpediadem says
Criminals, yes.
But jihadis are ready, willing and able to die for jihad and Allah so that doesn’t really apply.
Angemon says
If anyone, jihadis or not, really wants to kill someone else, they’ll either get a firearm through illegal means or use any other weapon they can get their hands on – bombs, knives (bladed weapons are a classic among jihadis), even a car.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/04/china-muslims-murder-three-injure-79-in-jihad-attack-at-railway-station
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/06/austria-muslim-drives-car-into-crowd-killing-3-then-gets-out-and-stabs-passersby
Meanwhile, the only options available to unarmed law-abiding citizens are: try to run away, try to hide, and hope the police gets there before the criminals find them.
Angemon says
Ugh, accidentally pressed “Post Comment”
To add to what I said, the possibility that they might die before killing someone, and the idea that the kuffar are not sheep in fear of a wolf should prove effective deterrents.
Will says
IMO it is about time that Abdul and his cohorts were give the correct treatment and that which they deserve: death to all terrorist , actual or would be and deportation to anyone even sympathizing with them.
That is the OPNMLY way to deal with a plague: destroy vectors & removed breeding grounds
Will says
Apologies for the “OPNMLY” as it should have read “ONLY” but I “stuttered” : )
Davegreybeard says
Of course nothing will change in Australia with “head up your ass” attitudes as expressed by JIMJFOX, David M, and others – some people are just “stuck on stupid.”
But for Will, Fat Tony and others who can see what is happening and have common sense, I would recommend you start by pushing for carry permits for ex cops and ex military. What reasonable person could object to that? After it is demonstrated that indeed, they will not shoot up the local school or each other, you can push for the laws to be expanded.
Finally, consider this; Muhammad said “I have been made victorious through terror.” Everyone on this site, who has a functioning brain, knows Islamic terror is coming to their town, soon – it’s what they do.
Now, you may cause an armed population to be “afraid” or extremely concerned, but you most assuredly will not “TERRORIZE” it.
Diana says
Davegreybeard said – in yet another outburst of islam-like intolerance and alleged absence of reason:
“Of course nothing will change in Australia with “head up your ass” attitudes as expressed by JIMJFOX, David M, and others – some people are just “stuck on stupid.” ”
Whew – is that really your idea of how to win friends and influence people Dave? By INSULTING us here on a free speech forum which is the model of scholarly research and restrained and polite critique by Robert Spencer, Raymond Ibrahim, Hugh Fitzgerald, Nicolai Sennels et al (thank you thank you thank you all).
I now realise that Dave is not a scholar – but mate please PLEASE tone it down. You are starting to sound like an islamist and that kind of “wild west NRA shoot ’em up” mind-set is the problem. It most certainly IS NOT the answer. Reasoned debate and polite discourse and sensible risk management and outsmarting them (the islamists) is likely to bear better fruit.
You say – and I beg to differ (as politely as I can because comments like yours are not reasonable to many of us here) … “But for Will, Fat Tony and others who can see what is happening and have common sense, I would recommend you start by pushing for carry permits for ex cops and ex military. What reasonable person could object to that?”
So gun lobbyists like Will, Fat Tony and others have Common sense eh? Yup – incredibly common I say but not at all helpful or well informed. As a reasonable person – I absolutely object to that “grab a gun” and “shoot ’em up mentality. You are soooo wrong about more guns = less crime. Please see my above post in response to your previous post aimed directly at me namely “I won’t let you get away with …” having a different opinion to you it seems. Was your post deliberately designed to insult & inflame everyone who disagrees with you but simultaneously not to inform or enlighten? Or were you just unaware of the deleterious effects of your words? Dave this is a forum that CHERISHES free speech and exemplifies reason and logic …. not the spouting of spurious “facts” and ad hominem attacks. Maybe I need to translate that for you …. a sporting analogy may help. Play the ball not the person and stick by the rules of the forum – please?
Yes I agree with “Everyone on this site, who has a functioning brain, knows Islamic terror is coming to their town, soon – it’s what they do.”
But not everyone on this site – most of us quite obviously being possessed of well-functioning brains and I suggest a more reasoned approach than yours is a fan of guns , guns and more guns. Because more guns do = more murder. Please try to understand you are not the sole arbiter of what is right and true.
Again I suggest that you consider the following – the pen is mightier than the sword, peace, reason and compassion is better than more hate-filled invective towards your allies …. us right here on this site.
Who do you really think are the true heroes of the enlightenment and the champions of free speech – Nelson Mandela, Mahattma Ghandi and your own founding fathers, following the examples of Jesus and Buddha or alternately the hate-spewing invectives of the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and the Mohamad inspired islamists?
You will I think find that the vast majority of decent, thinking people prefer the former to the latter – so please give this some thought before you reply. I really do not want another verbal attack – please show some respect to those here who do not share your opinions. We are indeed united in our opposition to the undeniable threat we all face. So please don’t p!ss us off and insult us yet again. Ok?
Linda Rivera says
God forbid that anyone would insult our Australian brothers and sisters. I don’t think the comments were meant to intentionally insult. I deeply admire Australians’ strength and courage.
I believe that the MILLIONS of Christians who were barbarically put to death by Muslim Turks not that long ago, wished that they had guns to defend themselves and their loved ones from the Muslim savages who put Christian men, women, children and babies to death in the most horrifying satanic ways.
REST IN ETERNAL PEACE WITH THE ANGELS, Precious Christian brothers and sisters martyred because of your love and commitment to Beautiful Saviour, Jesus Christ.
Diana says
Yes thanks Linda – I see that you are a committed Christian. I am not a practicing Christian – though I was raised in that faith. Have studied many other faiths and the original versions of the Bible before they got edited by the church of Rome, as we now know thanks to the Dead Sea Scrolls etc, and by reading from the original Aramaic texts not the later Greek & Roman translations later translated into English as found in the King James version.
After much thought, study and reflection, I am a secular humanist, not an atheist because there is indeed a force greater than us. You call it God, I call it good and certainly everything that allah (or the alter ego of mo’madman) most certainly is not.
Relax Linda – I am no satanist and I do know that It is possible to be a good, kind and decent human being without accepting Jesus as the one and only saviour. Surely no truly loving God would deliberately do that to 3/4 of all humankind. The claim NEVER made by Jesus himself that he was born of a “virgin” (literally a young woman) – I do not accept. I accept and respect that you do not see it this way. However we are allies against this evil ideology called islam.
There are many paths to “heaven” Linda – define that as you like – in God’s house there are many mansions or so the bible says. Islam is not – to continue the metaphor – a mansion but a blood soaked hovel fit only for demolition – by reason and goodwill. Islam is a fascist ideology and one that no sane human can ever accept
And yes the threat is real – yes MILLIONS of Christians were in fact murdered by – not just the Turks but also by other (perhaps you’d agree – satan-worshiping) muslims.
Now what did Jesus say and do Linda? Was it “turn the other cheek” or was it “murder the perceived enemy”? And his “I come not to bring peace but a sword” had a very particular context which is I think well explained here http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/matthew_10_34.htm
No one needs to be a martyr. No one needs to die for any religious cause, there could be peace on earth if we put our hearts and minds to that aim. We could choose to be FOR PEACE, for the good of humanity and not ANTI everything else that we have decided or been indoctrinated is not to our personal liking. The islamists are wrong – obviously so and we need to form a wide coalition – a very broad church if you like – which is life-affirming.
My objection to the above comments from Dave are that he lacks introspection and could not it seems give a toss about offending anyone who disagrees with him. I say that even more guns in private hands are not the answer. You think otherwise. We are all pretty much agreed here that the real problem is islam. Attacking others like Dave has done above is I think a sign of weakness and not of strength. An apology from him would be nice but is perhaps unlikely to be forthcoming – thank you anyway for apologising on his behalf. We Aussies are truly your best allies – on that we can agree.
Angemon says
Diana posted:
“You are starting to sound like an islamist”
No, he doesn’t. An islamist is, by definition, someone who attempts to implement islamic values in all spheres of life. I don’t see Dave doing anything of the sort.
“Reasoned debate and polite discourse and sensible risk management and outsmarting them (the islamists) is likely to bear better fruit.”
Right, because a decade or more of debating and winning debates with muslim apologists has done so much to prevent muslim-on-kuffar violence in Western countries…
“As a reasonable person – I absolutely object to that “grab a gun” and “shoot ’em up mentality.”
Which is not Dave’s stance, is it?
Linda Rivera says
If Australian leaders want to genuinely protect their people they will DEPORT ALL MUSLIMS NOW. As would ALL Western leaders of our nations.
The BLOOD SOAKED Quran commands Muslims to commit violent jihad, beheadings, crucifixions, barbaric mass murders on hated infidels…
Muslims are able to call for jihad and mass murders of hated non-Muslims because our traitor leaders massively imported Muslims into our nations and force our people to finance massive Muslim immigration and massive Muslim breeding.
Muslims are NOT expected to financially support themselves. Infidel taxpayers are forced to support Muslims and the huge numbers of children their polygamous baby factor wives continuously pop out. Muslims in Third World failed countries CANNOT afford to have harems of wives and lots of children. Our leaders are ecstatic to fulfill every desire of supremacist Muslims – harems and lots of children for jihad…
Our traitor leaders eagerly imported huge armies of the Blood Cult of Mohammed into our nations…
Linda Rivera says
Oops. Typo. That should be BABY FACTORY WIVES.
Diana says
Linda we cannot deport ALL MUSLIMS. Some are actually not followers of Mad mo and the quran and do in fact speak out against it. I know several refugees and they are NOT all the same. An Iranian I know who now calls himself a Persian (was born as a Shi’ite) but became a refugee from the Ayotollah Khomenis murderous regime precisely BECAUSE HE SPOKE OUT against the murders of the Bahais back in 1979. He refuses to ever go to the mosque “because it is full of mad-men” – is he a muslim you would have deported? He HAS NEVER been on the dole here and is one of the nicest people I know – really. And he HATES what islam stands for but culturally he is regarded as a muslim! He likes Ibn Warraq and Hirsi Ali and he is appalled by the fatwa on Salman Rushdie – no He’s NOT faking it!
Or the persecuted Hazaras being still mutilated by the Pastun Sunni Taliban – the very same Taliban who were financed and armed up by the USA???? Deport the mild-mannered Hazaras to certain death ???? When they HATE the murderous sunnis and their undeniable ongoing rape of Afghanistan and everything ISIS stands for – muslim by birth but not by their current belief. I know several and they are all working here – not one of them is on the dole and not one has multiple wives and 3 Hazara couples I know all have zero children because they are so busy working and decrying the evil they admit is perpetrated by islam. Not one single veil in sight either – but they are ostensibly and culturally muslim. Or are they really “apostates” and if so then scheduled for certain death if deported?
So a statement like “all muslims should be deported” is just a wee bit over the top. And not helpful at all. YES the quran is full of sh!t and murder, mayhem and madness. And there are dozens of people who had the misfortune to be born into muslim families and who have escaped from that mental prison and made a new start here.
The answer is not necessarily just deportation – that is a classical islamist idea – namely convert, deport or die. Aren’t we a bit better than that? There must be another way – so for all you nominal Christians out there – what would Jesus have done in this situation?
Davegreybeard says
@Diana
“Davegreybeard said – in yet another outburst of islam-like intolerance and alleged absence of reason… “
So, conflating me with Islam is your lead in to:
“Whew – is that really your idea of how to win friends and influence people Dave? By INSULTING us here on a free speech forum which is the model of scholarly research and restrained and polite critique…”
Do you even THINK when you write? Seems you are no slouch in the “ad hominem attacks” department either. But conversation with you is really all about you isn’t it?
When I said that I wouldn’t let you get away with that, what I meant was that I would not allow you to state things that are patently false without a challenge. Such as:
“So gun lobbyists like Will, Fat Tony and others have Common sense eh? Yup – incredibly common I say but not at all helpful or well informed. As a reasonable person – I absolutely object to that “grab a gun” and “shoot ’em up mentality. You are soooo wrong about more guns = less crime.”
This is provably false, the U.K. has a much higher violent crime rate than the U.S. Look it up.
But this isn’t really about that, it’s about the best way to counter violent Jihadi terrorists.
I submit that you are foolish when you hold that: “Reasoned debate and polite discourse and sensible risk management and outsmarting them (the islamists) is likely to bear better fruit.” when dealing with those who would cut your throat.
You have a phobia about guns, I understand that – so don’t use one.
But when you seek to deny those who would defend themselves and their families the means to do so, YOU BECOME PART OF THE PROBLEM.
Diana says
We will have to agree to disagree . You have called me stupid, you have called us Aussies up our own arses and what’s with the kool aid Dave? etc etc. I did not start this argument Dave you did.
We disagree. I do not have a phobia about guns – they are over used. Guns are now weapons of mass destruction.
Maybe this is really all about YOU and not all about me. Good night and goodbye Dave. Sleep well – I will.
Wakeup says
It is not necessary that the citizens of all counties should bear arms only the united states. The constitution of the united states must be protected. The guarantee of freedom of speech must be protected and consequently the all good things come from freedom. US freedom guarantees freedom of the internet and consequently freedom for all the rest of us.
Davegreybeard says
@Wakeup
“The guarantee of freedom of speech must be protected and consequently the all good things come from freedom.”
Aye, quite so Wakeup.
But when a man with a gun tells you to shut up, you have absolutely no choice in the matter.
Unless, of course, you have a gun of your own…
David M says
What’s your point? If you use your gun first you will be the one charged with murder, not the other guy. People go into irrational periods with our “flight or fight’ syndrome, you do not want someone to have a gun when they are temporarily angry. You seem to think nothing of these mass gun killings that happen periodically in America, they still seem to happen despite your liberal gun laws, the clock is ticking to the next one too. Your second Amendment was made in different times when wild animals, American Indians etc were a threat, completely different times to modern city living now. Why do you think your American cops are so trigger happy with young black kids on the street? It’s because the cops are paranoid they will be the ones shot first because the kids are probably carrying guns.
JIMJFOX says
Speaking of ‘heads up asses’, Dave- I see you choose to ignore the dozens of gun massacres pointed out in my link? Too chicken-shit, Dave? Are YOU one of the “law abiding citizens of sound mind and good character”, or just a redneck with an IQ of 70?
Australians can easily own a gun- but unlike the USA free-for-all that allows mentally deranged people full and free access, there is a qualifying process; ANY criminal conviction means NO GUN. Since the Port Arthur massacre, gun surrender/amnesty and new laws, gun deaths have fallen steadily from over 500 to under 200 per year.
Australians trust their military to do their job and protect them, unlike the millions of conspiracy theorist loons in the USA with their private militias [which would be exterminated by the US military in 30 seconds, if push came to shove].
The Second Amendment’s use of “well regulated Militia” obviously meant a trained, disciplined force of armed civilians [much as Switzerland has today] and NOT every Tom, Dick or Harry nutbag running amok with assault weapons. It is also a fact that it was formulated before the advent of a standing National Army.
Davegreybeard says
@ JIM FOX
“You can join a gun club- it’s easy. Train on a range, learn to shoot various weapons
that are legal in Australia. After 6 months and a police clearance certificate you can buy a gun of your choice. Then at least you will feel more secure.
I did this and enjoyed the learning process. The 9mm Glock is a nice piece but the 357 Magnum is far too big/heavy!!”
Hmmmm…
Seems as though when the smoke clears a bit, YOU REALLY DO AGREE with this “chicken-shit red neck with an I.Q. of 70” – who would have guessed it?
But then, you Aussies are known to enjoy a good bar fight now and then.
Glock’s a good choice by the way.
I own several – and, exercising my 2nd Amendment Right, have been known to carry one, and on more than one occasion.
Cheers