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Malaysian mufti: “Islam is based on faith…Don’t make any remarks based on the intellect or logic”

Aug 4, 2015 10:52 am By Robert Spencer

Perak Mufti Tan Sri Harussani ZakariaAll religions are based on faith, but Islam is more actively opposed to the intellect and reason than the others. Contrast, for example, these two statements, the first from Christianity’s holy book, and the second from Islam’s:

“Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you…” — I Peter 3:15

“O you who have believed, do not ask about things which, if they are shown to you, will distress you….A people asked such before you; then they became thereby disbelievers.” — Qur’an 5:101, 102

And we see this difference in all sorts of ways. Islamic spokesmen such as Reza Aslan and Qasim Rashid (and so many others), when challenged to defend their views or give evidence for their claims, respond with vicious ad hominem abuse and ferocious contempt, but never with point-by-point substantiation of their own positions or refutation of their opponent’s. Even publications touted as evidence-based defenses of this or that position — such as Qur’anic presentations of the proposition that Islam is a Religion of Peace is the most notorious — simply ignore the existence of important passages that would harm the argument being made.

Just yesterday I was sent a “refutation” of the points I raised when expressing skepticism over the recently discovered supposed oldest Qur’an manuscript. It was a typical Islamic supremacist production: it began with triumphant and adolescent claims that I was therein “destroyed” and “cowering in fear,” and then proceeded to “demolish” my first “ridiculous” point, which was in reality a point I had never made.

And so it goes. Such productions are typical. Islam is based on the acceptance of an iron dogma that one dare not question. This forms habits of mind that make it well-nigh impossible for its most fervent adherents to take up the cudgels of rational debate in any effective way, even when they wish to.

“Avoid intellect, logic when it comes to Islam, Perak mufti tells Cabinet,” Malay Mail Online, August 4, 2015 (thanks to The Religion of Peace):

KUALA LUMPUR, Aug 4 — Tan Sri Harussani Zakaria reminded federal ministers yesterday against issuing statements based on logic and intellect when it comes to Islam, claiming that the intellect is influenced by desires and subsequently susceptible to the devil.

In a report carried by Malay daily Sinar Harian, the Perak mufti also warned Muslim ministers against deriding and belittling Islamic laws, as they risk breaching their oath of loyalty that was made in the name of Allah.

“I advise them not to go overboard. Islam is based on faith… Don’t make any remarks based on the intellect or logic because they are laws of Allah,” Harussani said.

“The intellect is governed by desires and it is influence by shaitan (satan). Don’t be ruled by desires and rudderless comments,” he added, using the name of the Devil in Islamic lore.

Harussani said Muslim ministers, deputy ministers and state executive councillors have all taken their oaths in front of the Agong or a sultan, and sworn with the name of Allah to defend the Constitution.

“The Constitution states that the Islam is the religion of the federation. Therefore, they cannot deride and belittle Allah’s rules. If not, then it means they have breached their oaths,” added the mufti.

Harussani made his remarks when asked by Sinar to comment on newly-appointed Minister in the Prime Minister’s Department Datuk Azalina Othman, who commented on the country’s censorship laws which she said had stunted the creative industry.

Azalina had said that the Film Censorship Board needs to relax its guidelines against banning intimate physical contact between Muslim male and female actors, since they were only acting out their roles.

Her remark has since enraged Islamic groups, including independent preacher Datuk Mohd Kazim Elias who urged her to “repent”….

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Filed Under: Featured, Malaysia Tagged With: Perak mufti, Tan Sri Harussani Zakaria


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Comments

  1. Clay says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 11:03 am

    The Koran is a “perfect copy” of a book in paradise. It cannot be questioned. Therefore; when it rejects logic or evidence that it is wrong, it has to be dismissed out of hand with no thought.

    • Jay Boo says

      Aug 4, 2015 at 12:50 pm

      Of course, Muhammad was a lecherous carnal pig not a prophet.
      Some religions over to save one’s soul.
      Muhammad promised a ‘Paradise’ where his followers would boink a virgin 9 year old.

    • Frank says

      Aug 4, 2015 at 1:31 pm

      Who again was it who said: “People rather die than think”. He certainly made a point. And that is why in not too long a time 95% of the world population will be muslim. And they all will die!

  2. Jay Boo says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 11:19 am

    Five prayers a day keeps a Muslim a slave.
    Muslims would not need to do their flamboyant vanity dance “prayer” moves from a choreographed script if Islam actually had some substance to its shallowness.

  3. jihad3tracker says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 11:25 am

    Islam is a supremacist / totalitarian assembly of axioms and obligations . . . therefore, OF COURSE, no rational thinking about it is allowed.

  4. voegelinian says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 11:27 am

    Sure, all religions (or most) may have “faith” — but we must be on guard about semantics. Somehow, I doubt that the Arabic words collectively translated into the English word “faith” — Islam, Iman, and I’hsan mean what we in the Graeco-Roman/Judaeo-Christian West intend by our words emunah, pistis, and fides — but more likely err toward the Pharisaic dayqānût and the heterodox gnosis if not also some other terms derived from the history of magic and the Satanic black arts).

  5. mortimer says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 11:28 am

    According to Indonesia’s top Muslim, Islam is based on aggressive, violent, anti-intellectual obscurantism, rather than reason. Islam calls such an attitude ‘taqlid’ which is ‘the (mental) attitude of a corpse being given ritual washing before burial.’

    Islam’s anti-intellectual program is to bury the intellect.

    Obscurantism is defined as “the practice of deliberately preventing the facts or full details of something from becoming known.”

    That perfectly describes Islam. Whenever Muslims use critical thought and rational analysis and apply them to Islam’s source texts and the history of those texts, their faith in Islam crumbles.

  6. john spielman says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 11:31 am

    islam is the antithesis to all that is good, honorable, lovely, and righteous. It is pure evil based on the rantings of a demon possessed mass murderer thief liar misogynist and pedophile pervert that received his new message from a demon ( possibly Satan himself) masquerading as Gabriel an angel of God.
    Islam is perpetual darkness death and hell when compared to the Gospel of Jesus Christ which is hope salvation love and perpetual light and eternal life.

  7. Jaladhis says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 11:33 am

    In other words don’t show Mo/allah that you are smarter than him!!

  8. somehistory says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 11:35 am

    And that is why most muslims can’t be reasoned with to show them the evil of their death cult. Only if they are intelligently inclined enough that reason overcomes their *fear* of becoming an *unbeliever* through questioning. If they allow themselves to question and reason on things, they can see they need to leave it.
    The fear and inbreeding keep many in line with the unreasonable beast’s demands. Others may just wish to have an excuse for the evil they desire to commit.

    • RonaldB says

      Aug 4, 2015 at 12:06 pm

      “The fear and inbreeding keep many in line…”

      You’re absolutely right. Islam has one purpose, which it performs quite well: to spread Islam. Islam has no iron in the fire concerning the development of science, logic, ethics, morality or the advancement of humanity.

      The inbreeding serves the purpose of collectively lowering the IQ of Muslims and making them unable to follow logic and unable to focus. It’s horrible from the perspective of improving humanity, but very functional for Islam.

      The Islamic drive to expand Islam is aided immensely by the calcification of Western government and media, who insist on viewing each religion or philosophy as equivalent, and thus abet the Islamic push for dominance by the tactic of ignoring it. From a purely evolutionary standpoint, it is yet to be proven that Islam is inferior. Once it has driven all competition out, and halted all advancement in human knowledge, it will be a sitting duck for any natural disaster, and might well accomplish the elimination of the human race. But, that’s fine with Islam, as long as any competitive religion has been eliminated by the time that has happened.

      • john spielman says

        Aug 4, 2015 at 1:28 pm

        yes, many are inbred so much, that they feel like a sandwich

  9. Jay Boo says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 11:41 am

    Muslims must continually remind themselves that Muhammad was a ‘prophet’ lest the ludicrousness of the claim sink in.

    How child-bride freaky is that?

    • mortimer says

      Aug 4, 2015 at 12:03 pm

      Mohammed’s amoral character is the greatest liability in Islam.

    • Huck Folder says

      Aug 5, 2015 at 2:20 am

      And what does the endless (Piss Be Unto Him) do for him or the speaker, except waste time, bandwidth and trees?

      Read, or listen carefully to some airheads and they get tired and miss the odd mumble in the beard or the printed (PBUH). After all, if dear old mo is mentioned three times in one sentence, is does get boring, even to the most fastidious Obsessive-Compulsive-Disorder-suffering twat.

      I would love to see some such OCD twat pounced on by Saudi-like thought police because he missed a (PBUH)!

      • mortimer says

        Aug 5, 2015 at 12:01 pm

        The acronym PBUH, in English, stands for “peace be upon him.” It is a mistranslation of the Arabic phrase, sallallâhû `alayhî wa sallam. A better translation would be: the PRAYERS of Allah be upon him and peace.
        This ‘beatific phrase’ (PBUH) is a confusing anomaly based on K.33.56. The word ‘salla’ does not mean either blessing or peace, but ‘pray’.
        The literal translation of K. 33.56 is: “Allah and His angels PRAY ON the prophet. O ye who believe PRAY ON HIM and salute him with a worthy salutation.”
        The verse is absurd. Does Allah pray to some other being or to himself? To whom is Allah praying then? This verse says that Allah, who is absolute, prays TO HIMSELF ‘ON’ the prophet. How does Allah PRAY for the prophet or ‘ON’ the prophet? Both aspects of this verse are absurdities.
        If Allah and his angels pray ‘ON’ the messenger, then Muslims must do so as well. But to whom does Allah pray?
        Muslims must turn off the switch of reason every time they repeat this absurd phrase, thus damaging their mind and their personal integrity by indulging in an absurdity that contradicts the Islamic doctrine of shirk and contradicts human reason. The obvious, reasonable answer to such an absurd Koranic verse is to conclude that Koran is absurd and whoever wrote it did not understand what he was writing.
        By praying for Mohammed, Allah makes him a partner of Allah or even superior to Allah. Muslims must deny the apparent meaning of the verse: that Allah prays to someone ‘greater’ (akbar) than himself. Thus, Allah is not ‘akbar’ at all. Allah is less than the being to whom he is praying.
        It is very likely that the idea of Allah and his angels praying to a GREATER deity than Allah comes from a now-suppressed, pre-Islamic text that was quoted in the Koran while the Koran was hastily assembled by Hajjaj and Caliph abd al Malik.
        PBUH is a hint that the Koran incorporates texts from pre-Islamic paganism.

        • mortimer says

          Aug 5, 2015 at 12:16 pm

          Why should one deity in the pantheon not ‘pray’ to a greater deity than him/herself. Perhaps the Daughters of Allah prayed ‘on’ or ‘for’ the messenger. Then, they had to be cut out of the Koran when they became personae non gratae.

          PBUH is a baffling anomaly. It suggests the Koran incorporates polytheistic texts from pre-Islamic paganism.

        • mortimer says

          Aug 5, 2015 at 12:39 pm

          Further to the above: When Allah prayers are ‘upon’ or ‘for’ Mohammed, it is obvious that Allah is a mere INTERCESSORS who prays in turn to a greater deity than himself.

          This is similar to how some Christians pray to the BVM or Christian saints to ask for their intercession.

          PBUH is similar, then to ‘May the Saints preserve him.’

  10. KrazyKafir says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 11:45 am

    It’s quite right when referring to Muslims as zombies, for that is what they are.

  11. Stephanie says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 11:52 am

    DON’T switch your brain ON again; “ISSlam is based on faith”

    https://twitter.com/schnellmann_org/status/628592355868868608

    (video, 4:20 min) “… and do masturbation”—Bukhari No. 231-3
    UPDATE : http://192.96.206.71/the-child-bride-of-muhammad.html

  12. jewdog says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 11:53 am

    Exactly. And notice how Islamic irrationality has permeated so many institutions: the UN, with it’s absurd, one-sided obsession with Israel; academia, with the violent refusal to listen to opposing viewpoints; the political class, with their ludicrous mendacity about Islam and terrorism; the media, manned by graduates of our institutes of blinkered learning. It’s the money and demographic power of the stupidest people on earth. Despite it all, reality has a way of making itself heard in the end.

    • Paul says

      Aug 4, 2015 at 11:58 am

      Hear hear! Now remove the brain – and not just the shoes – before
      entering the mosque.

      • Huck Folder says

        Aug 5, 2015 at 2:22 am

        “Abandon Thought All Ye Who Enter Here.”

        Or something like that.

        • Huck Folder says

          Aug 5, 2015 at 2:24 am

          ATAYWEH

          Sounds like one of al-Lat’s 359 partners.

        • particolor says

          Aug 5, 2015 at 2:33 am

          Or Shoe as the case may be ! Dear Mr Imam Its a barsted trying to put My Sock and shoe on with only one hand ! 🙁

  13. Paul says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 11:54 am

    We constantly hear about the supposed purity and perfection of
    Islam, and how it contains absolutely NO contradictions whatsoever
    (such as the ‘almighty’ monolingual ‘Allah’, for example) and how
    it’s the perfect solution for all the problems of the world. I guess
    that’s why Muslims who ask too many questions face such a hard
    time – “It’s the truth because I say it is, OK?! And that’s that!”.

    • Jack Diamond says

      Aug 4, 2015 at 12:09 pm

      Questions are of satan and Islam is to be swallowed whole and submitted to. Moderate Islam does not exist.

      “it is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision.” (Qur’an 33:36)

      “The prophet was asked about things which he did not like, and when the questioner insisted, the Prophet got angry. (vol. 1, no. 92) The Prophet got angry and his cheeks or his face became red. (vol. 1, no. 91) “Allah has hated you…[for] asking too many questions.” (vol. 2, no. 555; and vol. 3, no. 591, Bukhari’s Hadith

      “Today have I perfected your religious law for you, and have bestowed upon you the full measure of My blessings, and willed that self-surrender unto Me shall be your religion.” (Q.5:3).

      “Do you, then, believe in some parts of the divine writ and deny the truth of other parts? What, then, could be the reward of those among you who do such things but ignominy in the life of this world and, on the Day of Resurrection? They will be consigned to most grievous suffering. For God is not unmindful of what you do.” (Q.2:85)

      • Jay Boo says

        Aug 4, 2015 at 12:55 pm

        Muhammad was an emotional train wreck.
        How could such an impulsive pig call himself a prophet?

        • Paul says

          Aug 4, 2015 at 3:25 pm

          Muhammad’s ‘prophethood’ :

      • Paul says

        Aug 4, 2015 at 3:17 pm

        Islam is not just another ‘religion’, or a merely deeply unpleasant
        one. It is THE Antichrist religion :

      • Paul says

        Aug 4, 2015 at 3:23 pm

        Who is ‘allah’? :

      • gravenimage says

        Aug 4, 2015 at 6:06 pm

        All salient quotes, Jack.

  14. mortimer says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 11:58 am

    The primary focus of Mohammedan belief is Mohammed, rather than the Islamic god who is inscrutable, contradictory, a deceiver and unknowable.

    Every Mohammedan does severe violence to his own intellect by believing that a plagiarist, a vacillating opportunist, a contract killer, a highwayman, a liar, an assassin, a pedophile, a shameless womanizer, a promiscuous, cheating husband, a rapist, an enslaver, a genocidal mass murderer, a desert pirate, a psychopathic warmonger, an anti-Semite, an intolerant bigot, a spineless coward, and a calculating and ruthless tyrant is qualified to be a messenger of any god. The most horrible part of this list is that all of it comes from Islam’s own source texts.

    • Paul says

      Aug 4, 2015 at 12:07 pm

      And the fact that he was suicidal because of his meetings with the
      supposed ‘angel’ that he (no doubt rightly) believed to be a demon.
      And the fact that a Bedouin woman nursing him as a child believed
      him to be possessed.

      • mortimer says

        Aug 4, 2015 at 7:17 pm

        From cradle to grave the hadiths and Sira report episodic madness and/or spirit possession in the life of Mohammed. We cannot dismiss any of these reports, because they come from ’embarrassment’ and are therefore much likely to be true. Mohammed is depicted by madness as an unreliable and unlikely prophet…more likely to be a madman…an epileptic or schizophrenic.

  15. Champ says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 12:23 pm

    “Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you…” — I Peter 3:15

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I love this verse from the Bible …

    And I also love how “Got Questions” offers ways to help a Christian prepare in making a defense for their faith:

    Question: “What is the Christian’s hope?”

    Answer: Most people understand hope as wishful thinking, as in “I hope something will happen.” This is not what the Bible means by hope. The biblical definition of hope is “confident expectation.” Hope is a firm assurance regarding things that are unclear and unknown (Romans 8:24-25; Hebrews 11:1, 7). Hope is a fundamental component of the life of the righteous (Proverbs 23:18). Without hope, life loses its meaning (Lamentations 3:18; Job 7:6) and in death there is no hope (Isaiah 38:18; Job 17:15). The righteous who trust or put their hope in God will be helped (Psalm 28:7), and they will not be confounded, put to shame, or disappointed (Isaiah 49:23). The righteous, who have this trustful hope in God, have a general confidence in God’s protection and help (Jeremiah 29:11) and are free from fear and anxiety (Psalm 46:2-3).

    More here:
    http://www.gotquestions.org/hope-Bible.html

  16. Edward says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 12:29 pm

    “O you who have believed, do not ask about things which, if they are shown to you, will distress you….A people asked such before you; then they became thereby disbelievers.” — Qur’an 5:101, 102

    And the Muslim’s keep saying that there is no compulsion in Islam……but fear is instilled upon you if you leave Islam! No wonder Muslim’s volunteer for suicide bombing…..for these poor fools live under perpetual duress for one sort or another reason their entire lives…..perhaps, they are not doing this for loyalty, but to leave their convoluted miserable life style!

    The Koran passage reminds me of the infamous Pelosi’s quote about Obamacare.

    “we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.”

    Typical Liberal like sashaying around when true faith affirmation is next to nil!

    • Western Canadian says

      Aug 4, 2015 at 10:07 pm

      ““O you who have believed, do not ask about things which, if they are shown to you, will distress you….A people asked such before you; then they became thereby disbelievers.” — Qur’an 5:101, 102”

      Which explains why devout muslims HATE anyone with more than a few functioning brain cells….

  17. Jay Boo says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 12:56 pm

    Muslims worship death.

    • Western Canadian says

      Aug 4, 2015 at 9:56 pm

      Given the sad and shabby (at best!!) lives islam (RTC) forces them to live…. almost makes sense.

  18. Beth says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 1:12 pm

    “when challenged to defend their views or give evidence for their claims, respond with vicious ad hominem abuse and ferocious contempt, but never with point-by-point substantiation of their own positions or refutation of their opponent’s”

    And this is how to know if what they say is from God or not. Satan could not win the debate with the Scriptures when confronting Jesus – and Jesus did not behave the same as these imams. Jesus knew the Scriptures , – and because the Scriptures are filled with righteousness, Satan could not prevail. The same can not be said of their Koran. When those imams are confronted (always) – they either lie or get angry. It’s their only recourse; for if they faced the truth, – they’d have to leave that religion. And this has always puzzled me. Are they in it for the sake of eternal life? For some, there is no confusion for me. They love tyranny. But for others, – why would they stay in a religion that is full of confusion? (and evil). If for peer pressure – they’re cowards and not worthy of eternal life – and their hearts are not really set on obtaining truth.

    I know we’re not supposed to ask why, – for we were already told that a great blindness would take place in this world, – but still…

    the commands given in the Koran are so evil, – it puzzles me greatly that so many are able to bow down to it. And it puzzles me even further that so many would forfeit eternal life. No one can achieve the reward of eternal life with lies. I believe deep down inside – every soul knows this. It amazes me to see how great the blindness is…more than words can say – to see so many bowing down to the most evil book ever written. This is just one more reason to believe in the Lord of the Bible. He said this would happen. When I heard His words, I had no idea of how great the meaning of them were – until now.

  19. Martin Vink says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 1:14 pm

    In short, Islam is based on the Quran. When somebody reads it they either throw up or blow up. We are at war with the Quran. England’s longest serving Prime Minister, Gladstone said that as long as there is the Quran, there will be no peace. As soon as we start agreeing with Churchill and John Quincy Adams then we will stop the construction of Mosques and Minarets and invite Muslims to go home.

  20. epistemology says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 1:20 pm

    Wow, a muzzie finally admits. They prefer faith to intellect and logic, as intellect and logic could prove Islam to be wrong. That’s why he says intellect is influenced by the devil It’s hilarious. Islam the religion of terrorism and stupidity

  21. Angemon says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 1:29 pm

    Islam is based on faith… Don’t make any remarks based on the intellect or logic

    • Cecilia Ellis says

      Aug 4, 2015 at 2:07 pm

      That’s it, Angemon! I’m done for the day! I thought the missing-shoe episode had set the standard in the most absurd category; I was wrong. This video clearly leaps to the front-runner position. Yes, once again, you’ve provided your normal on-spot assessment. This is a must-view video for anyone curious about why Muslims dismiss centuries of faith-and-reason debates, as well as logic, or for anyone who just wants to start his/her day with an uplifting fit of laughter. Either way, it works. Thanks for the link.

      • Angemon says

        Aug 4, 2015 at 3:17 pm

        Thank Anthony Rogers, from http://www.answeringmuslims.com – he’s the author of that video.

  22. Jay Boo says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 1:37 pm

    BBC and NPR never question Islam.

    NPR just ran a human interest piece where somehow they just happened to find someone with a Muslim name, yet again.
    Blizzard, tornados ect. Muslim names all over.
    Yet when a Muslim convert terrorist shouts about Allah, NPR just can’t seem to locate the Muslim name.

  23. Champ says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 1:44 pm

    “I advise them not to go overboard. Islam is based on faith… Don’t make any remarks based on the intellect or logic because they are laws of Allah,” Harussani said.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Indeed, and allah/satan commends your mindless *slavery* to evil …

    “Yes, that’s a good mohammedan slave …but now quit your yabbering and go out and shed some innocent blood pronto!!”

  24. Walter Sieruk says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 2:08 pm

    That mufti who made the statement that ” Islam is based on faith…Don’t make any remarks based on intellect of logic.” What that mufti declared is a strong reminder of the truth of the wisdom that Benjamin Franklin printed in POOR RICHARD’S ALMANAC K . Which is that “The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.”

    • revereridesagain says

      Aug 4, 2015 at 3:25 pm

      Amen, yea verily, and all that.

      “Faith” is believing in things that aren’t real because they make you feel warm and fuzzy. It includes all the mystical mythologies that underlie religions, and no, it can NOT “stand up to any amount of logical reason”. Those “faithful” who grant reason at least some portion of the respect it is due are to be commended, and we can put up with you looking down your noses at us. But Muslims scream their “right” to force their madness on all of us through the sword, noose, Kalashnikov and nuke. As long as they renouce reason they will continue to do so, because the one follows from the other, and ultimately they must be forced into the submission they intend to impose on others.

      • particolor says

        Aug 5, 2015 at 7:26 pm

        Well I’m Warmed and Fuzzed and it only took 6 Glasses of Jack Denial’s ! And I didn’t have to listen to an Ugly Imam to get there ! 🙂

  25. Xero_G says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 2:28 pm

    Some examples of Islamic “logic”:

    The Koran is the divine, verbatim words of Allah/God because the Koran says so.

    Muhammad said the Angel Gabriel told him that Allah said that he (Muhammad) was the perfect example for human conduct. So everything Muhammad does is “perfect” (murder, robbery, rape, pedophilia, torture, terrorism, genocide, wife-beating, etc).

    The purpose of life is to prepare for a good death – that’s when the fun really begins.

  26. R Cole says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 3:21 pm

    The idea is to one day achieve mindless minionhood for all mankind – but after almost 1400 years – it’s clear Muslims struggle to keep themselves in line.

    ::

    Also Malaysia is one of the foremost promoters of ‘Islamic thought’ over western ‘freedom of thought’.

    Muslim scholars have been urged to focus on spreading Islamic thinking for the good of mankind and the world, said former prime minister Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad. He said new methods and approaches were needed to challenge Western ideas and theories that controlled and influenced world thinking. “Western theories and conventional approach have at times, failed to provide the best solution,” he said after being conferred honorary doctorate in Economy & Muamalat Administration by Universiti Sains Islam Malaysia (Usim) here today.

    Dr Mahathir said the world was facing a moral, social, political and economic crisis because it was bound and restricted by Western ideas and theories. “We now realise that what was inherited and taught by our religion is unsuitable and outdated,” he said. Muslims also felt inferior when facing theories of Western thinkers, most of whom did not base them on religion. “They created theories and ideas that were accepted without question by Muslims,” said Dr Mahathir.

    He said free thinking and individual freedom spread by Western theories would make Muslim society lose direction and objective in life. Malaysia Insider

    It is in part an argument in part for the supremacy of Islamic thought – but if he wanted go and share his theories with those in other parts of the Islamic world – he would need to do so using the products of free thought. The airplane, electrical devices such as the loudspeaker, the light bulb, the telephone, the internet…

    Free thinking is the lifeblood of western society.

    It is like fast moving molecules in boiling water – compared to the stagnancy on offer in Islam’s fixed set of ideas.

    With Islam – we can see that outside of conquest – when there is an influx of ideas – seized from the vanquished [mosque arches are Roman, Ancient Greek manuscripts were translated into Arabic]- very little has gone on – except to be transfixed by the religion itself. After 1000 odd years, come the 20th century – the Muslim world awoke to the realization that they had been left far behind.

    Their biggest issue now – is how to establish Islam’s supremacy – at a time when it is no longer possible to conquer more advanced nations – in neighboring regions. Nothing has been achieved without conquest in Islam – including its foundation.

    The whole thing should be museumed or better mausoleumed!

  27. Dave J says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 4:38 pm

    Islam and all its spokesmen and women are vehemently anti-intellectual and therefore unreasonable. Instead they are emotionally retarded proselytizers who are incapable of debate or critical thought and cannot stand any criticism or teasing. They have no sense of humor whatsoever – another sign of stupidity and intolerance. And they always seem to be on edge of violence, because they are.

    A religion you cannot leave on pain of death is not a religion, it is a cult/gang/terrorist group.

  28. Wellington says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 6:29 pm

    This represents in microcosm a HUGE difference between the best intellects the Christian world has produced and those which the Islamic world has on its resume. As an example, Thomas Aquinas (d. 1274) argued in his Summa Theologica that, in the final analysis, there is no conflict between reason and faith, while Averroes (d. 1198), just about the greatest intellect the Islamic world has ever produced, very much argued for the concept of the “double truth,” which allows for what religion asserts and what philosophy contends to be the case to be at polar opposites from one another and yet this is still OK.

    Well, supporting Aquinas here, I would vigorously argue it’s not OK but it does help to explain the Islamic mindset with crystal clarity. Yes, the Muslim’s Allah is beyond all reason, so why even try to use reason to understand ultimate reality?

    Well, for the record, I’m with the best the Christian world has produced respecting sophisticated assessments of ultimate reality, including the reconciliation of reason and faith. By contrast, Averroes’ “double truth” says more about the Islamic mindset than most any Muslim will ever realize, like this Malaysian mufti who is the subject of this article. Again is illustrated, I submit, that the chasm between the Judeo-Christian take on existence and that of the Islamic world is a gulf that no metaphorical bridge ever built could ever span.

    • Western Canadian says

      Aug 4, 2015 at 9:59 pm

      And a Jewish carpenter, a couple of thousand years ago, came out with instructions to question or test all things, and hold fast to that which is true.

      A concept that, when I discovered it in a book of ‘faith’, really opened my eyes…..

      • Champ says

        Aug 4, 2015 at 10:09 pm

        Indeed, Western Canadian; and after His crucifixion Jesus rose from the dead! ..mohammad never did that.

        Question: “Why is the resurrection of Jesus Christ important?”

        Answer: http://www.gotquestions.org/resurrection-Christ-important.html

    • Cecilia Ellis says

      Aug 5, 2015 at 3:01 am

      Westman, your entire comment is superb! Interestingly, Aquinas would agree with your statement,
      “[T]he chasm between the Judeo-Christian take on existence and that of the Islamic world is a gulf that no metaphorical bridge ever built could ever span.” That becomes evident in his “Summa Contra Gentiles” (Book 1, Chapter 6):

      “Mohammed said that he was sent in the power of his arms—which are signs not lacking even to robbers and tyrants. What is more, no wise man, men trained in things divine and human, believed in him from the beginning. Those who believed in him were brutal men and desert wanderers, utterly ignorant of all divine teaching, through whose numbers Mohammed forced others to become his followers by the violence of his arms. . . . he perverts almost all the testimonies of the Old and New Testaments by making them into fabrications of his own, as can be seen by anyone who examines his law. It was, therefore, a shrewd decision on his part to forbid his followers to read the Old and New Testaments, lest these books convict him of falsity. It is thus clear that those who place any faith in his words believe foolishly.”

      Such is the difference between blind faith and the convergence of faith and reason. I am tempted to send Pope Francis a copy of “Summa Contra Gentiles”; it is apparent that he has not read it.

      • voegelinian says

        Aug 5, 2015 at 12:34 pm

        Pope Francis is probably too busy feeling ashamed about the historical record of medieval Christianity.

        • Cecilia Ellis says

          Aug 5, 2015 at 6:03 pm

          Voeg, if that is the case, then his reality is that of 700 – 1000 years ago. Contrary to Christianity, the reality evidenced by 1400 years of Islam has not changed to this date. What was said by Aquinas, during those medieval centuries, can still be said to accurately describe Islam today.

    • voegelinian says

      Aug 5, 2015 at 8:25 pm

      Averroes also advocated death for apostasy. If I had a billion dollars, I would without hesitation bet that he also advocated offensive jihad in order to spread Islam:

      He wrote a book called BIDAYAT AL-MUJTAHID(“The Distinguished Jurist’s Primer/Manuel”) where in Volume 2,Section 56.10 he says that an APOSTATE has to be killed because of a hadith/saying of Mohammed where Mohammed says “whoever changes his (Muslim) religion,then kill him.”

      https://avraidire.wordpress.com/2010/05/09/the-great-philosopher-averroes-and-apostasy/

      No doubt there have been a few Muslims adept at logic & rationality. But they would use it for evil (Goebbels and Ted Bundy were smart too, bfd).

    • voegelinian says

      Aug 6, 2015 at 1:42 pm

      It could well be that the “double truth” Averroes articulated not only fits well with Islamic psychology & culture, but also is commonly practiced among any Muslims who become intellectually educated and/or begin to confront objectively (i.e., to us) superior intellectual cultures. With the “double truth” of Averroes, we can say (somewhat facetiously) that Islam invented “compartmentalization”. What the West cultivated, by contrast (as Wellington notes citing Aquinas), set up an ongoing fruitful tension between Revelation and Reason. This tension was not always followed through felicitously; as philosopher of history Eric Voegelin notes many times, the High Middle Ages began to go too far in this direction, fostering the philosophical conditions for the reification of noetic and pneumatic symbolisms which Reformation literalism only exacerbated, and Enlightenment hostility to theism — with reactionary dogmatism from Christians — tended to further aggravate. Nevertheless, for all its problems and faults, it has remained a fruitful tension, and an intellectual and cultural adventure revealing the greatness of Western Civilization — chief among them perhaps being the ongoing progress of bettering ourselves without succumbing to gnostic Utopianism. I realize there are gigantic blemishes amid this progress as it continues to unfold into an unknown future, and it is always sorely tempting to throw the baby out with the bathwater. At times, one’s hope for the West is tenuous and seems suspended by the slenderest of threads… beset from within by voices of doubt, and from without by various individuals and groups clamoring with their pessimism, nihilism, materialism, conspiracy theories, etc.

  29. gravenimage says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 7:09 pm

    Malaysian mufti: “Islam is based on faith…Don’t make any remarks based on the intellect or logic”

    All religions are based on faith, but Islam is more actively opposed to the intellect and reason than the others.
    …………………………………

    So true. And it is not just the core texts themselves—Judaism has a long tradition of respecting the intellect, and Christianity has St. Thomas Aquinas, who did so much to reconcile religion with reason and rational philosophy, especially Aristotle.

    Islam? Islam has Al-Ghazâlî. He lived not long before Aquinas, both in what in Europe was the High Middle Ages.

    But while Ghazâlî is often referred to as a philosopher, the fact is that he rejected all philosophy. He referred to himself as the “Destroyer of Philosophy”. He particularly despised Aristotle—but he hated *all* philosophy, because of its primary engagement with the mind.

    He demanded the death penalty for anyone practicing philosophy.

    He also particularly railed against “Bi’da”—”innovation”.

    He especially hated ethics and political philosophy—he held that these were unnecessary and harmful, because Muslims should follow Shari’ah blindly, without concern for its moral or practical effects. He hated the mere idea of cause and effect, because the mere concept takes away from “Allah’s” irrational power.

    We see tis baleful legacy all the time in Islam today.

    More:

    And we see this difference in all sorts of ways. Islamic spokesmen such as Reza Aslan and Qasim Rashid (and so many others), when challenged to defend their views or give evidence for their claims, respond with vicious ad hominem abuse and ferocious contempt, but never with point-by-point substantiation of their own positions or refutation of their opponent’s.
    …………………………………

    Yes—and there are two reasons for this: a rejection of reason and logical thought making rational argument impossible (hence, you so often find Muslims using circular “reasoning”, where the Qur’an, say, is true because the Qur’an says this is so); and a belief that such reasonable arguments should not be necessary, substituting aggression and threats.

    More:

    KUALA LUMPUR, Aug 4 — Tan Sri Harussani Zakaria reminded federal ministers yesterday against issuing statements based on logic and intellect when it comes to Islam, claiming that the intellect is influenced by desires and subsequently susceptible to the devil.
    …………………………………

    Note: this as a speech not to other clerics, but *to federal ministers*. I could imagine a Christian minister talking to American lawmakers about faith, but it would be inconceivable for him to denounce logic and intellect.

    And note further: the mind is not just considered irrelevant, but *actively un-Islamic*.

    More:

    In a report carried by Malay daily Sinar Harian, the Perak mufti also warned Muslim ministers against deriding and belittling Islamic laws, as they risk breaching their oath of loyalty that was made in the name of Allah.
    …………………………………

    Malaysia is a multicultural state—but this does not matter. Infidels are subject to Shari’ah as well, and have to live as oppressed dhimmis under Islamic law.

    • voegelinian says

      Aug 5, 2015 at 8:21 pm

      Al Ghazali also advocated offensive jihad, in a form hardly different from what ISIS is doing today:

      …one must go on jihad (i.e., razzias or raids) at least once a year…one may use a catapult against them [non-Muslims] when they are in a fortress, even if among them are women and children. One may set fire to them and/or drown them…If a person of the Ahl al-Kitab [People of The Book – i.e. Jews and Christians] is enslaved, his marriage is [automatically] revoked….One may cut down their trees…One must destroy their useless books. Jihadists may take as booty whatever they decide…they may steal as much food as they need…

      http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2007/07/the_sufi_moderate_alghazali.html

  30. Larry A. Singleton says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 7:34 pm

    I had made a special effort to get Koran with a “moderate” viewpoint and found Maulana Mahammad Ali’s Qur’an with Commentary.

    It was a lucky pick for a lot of reasons I won’t go into except to say that you can find the “kinder, gentler” interpretations of verses like 4:24. If people are interested in a creative writing class this is a great primer as he does a great job in whitewashing the Koran

    4:24 And all married women except those whom your right hands possess (are forbidden)

    Footnote: 4:24a. It sometimes happened that such prisoners became converts to Islåm, and therefore they could not be sent back. Such women it was lawful to take in marriage, even though they might not have been divorced formally by their former husbands….. It is thus forbidden to a man that he should marry a woman who is already married. An exception is made, however, regarding those whom your right hands possess, by which expression are generally meant in the Holy Qur’ån those who are taken prisoners in war.

    It’s almost as if this is giving a cartoon version like Vikings carrying off damsels or Disneyland’s Pirates of the Caribbean carrying around the “wenches” and dancing on kegs of rum. See the “myjihad” campaign by the terrorist front group CAIR and ask yourself why this special effort? (And why them?)

    The reality is these women were the wives, sisters and daughters of Jews who were probably raped next to the dead, slaughtered bodies of their husbands, brothers and sons. Or at the very least, kidnapped and taken back to wherever after they’d slaughtered their husbands, fathers and brothers leaving their heads and bodies in a “trench”.

    Or 5:32 (Ali) “whoever kills a person….it is as though he had killed all men” or “mankind” (Pickthall)

    And claim it’s talking about non-Muslims, conveniently leaving out the part about “for the Children of Israel”.

    Here’s the link for English Translation of the Holy Quran with Commentary by Maulana Muhammad Ali:
    http://www.muslim.org/english-quran/quran.htm

    But it was the footnoted for 9:33 that made my hair stand on end where it talks of the “triumphant spread of Islam”. What it fails to mention is The Muslim Slave Trade which alone was responsible for over a hundred million deaths. Most were those who never made it to the slave markets. The mortality rates for slaves dying in the Trans Sahara and East African slave trade was between 80 and 90%!

    9:33 He it is Who has sent His Messenger with the guidance and the Religion of Truth that He may make it prevail over all religions, though the polytheists are averse. (My Note: In other words; accept Islam or die.)

    Footnote: 9:33a. The prophecy of the ultimate triumph of Islåm in the whole world is repeated thrice in the Holy Qur’ån, in exactly the same words here and in 48:28 and 61:9.……In Arabia itself, Islåm became triumphant in the lifetime of the Holy Prophet. Idolatry was wiped out from the face of the country, (My Note: and so were all the idolaters.) while many of the Jews and Christians accepted the Religion of Truth. (My Note: With a sword hanging over their necks.)

    The Prophet’s death, instead of putting any check to the advance of Islåm, was a signal for an unparalleled advance of his religion. The first century of the Muslim era saw, not only vast Christian communities swelling the ranks of Islåm, in Egypt, North Africa, Asia Minor, Persia and Central Asia, but also brought to light the amazing fact that Islåm, coming in contact with all the great religions of the world, with Zoroastrianism in Persia, with Buddhism and Hinduism in India and Afghanistan, and with Confucianism in China, conquered the hearts of the followers of every religion and they accepted the message of Truth in vast numbers, so that great Muslim communities sprang up in the whole known world, and the light of Islåm enlightened the whole world from the farthest East to the farthest West.

    The reason for this triumph, unprecedented in the history of religion, is not far to seek. It was the Religion of Truth; it presented the whole truth and infused a new life into all people who accepted it, while every other religion presented only partial truth.

    I’d like to see one single example of Muslims taking over a town by dancing in the streets tossing rose petals in the air and handing out religious tracts. It’s incredible how Ali tries to make it sound like Christianity, which had it’s dark moments in history, but was primarily spread by God’s Word. Islam was a virtual plague of death where the mosques were built on top of the burned and destroyed churches and the bodies of raped and beheaded populations. With the rest enslaved or subjugated under the ready made extortion racket that was dhimmitued.

    The perfect rebuttal to this bald-faced lie that “the followers of every religion and they accepted the message of Truth in vast numbers”, is “Islam as a Vehicle for Arab Supremacism” by Hugh Fitzgerald and, again, Peter Hammond’s book Slavery, Terrorism and Islam.

    I subscribe to Good News Magazine and Biblical Archaeology. In the latter is an article titled The Fluid Bible by Sidnie White Crawford. And what I got from that was, even when there are “mistakes”, Hebrew scripture is consistent all the way down the line. I remember the pilot in a Columbo episode where one of the characters refers to Columbo and says “He’d even look for flaws in the Old Testament”. In other word; you can’t find any.

    In Peter Hammond’s Slavery, Terrorism and Islam he’s got a chapter called “The Sources of Islam” and a segment called “Evaluating the Quran”. Down the side of the page I wrote, ala Batman, “Pow”, next to these paragraphs by men who have studied the Koran and their evaluations of the Koran.

    Edward Gibbon in his Decline and Fall “…an incoherent rhapsody of fable and precept declamation”. Volume III, Chapter L, P-86

    Philosopher David Hume, “Muhammad bestows praise upon such instances of treachery, inhumanity, cruelty, revenge and bigotry as are utterly incompatible with civilized society….and every action is blamed or praised so far only as it is beneficial to the Muslims”.

    Thomas Carlyle, “A wearisome jumble, crude, incondite with endless iterations…long-windedness…nothing but a sense of duty could carry any European through the Koran”.

    Gerd Puin, so skilled with Arabic that Yemen entrusted him with the analysis of extremely old copies of the Koran wrote “The Quran claims for itself that it is ‘mubeen’ or clear. But if you look at it you wil notice that every fifth sentence or so simply doesn’t make sense…the fact is that a fifth of the Quranic text is just incomprehensible…If the Quran is not comprehensible—if it can’t even be understood in Arabic—then it is not translatable….And since the Quran claims repeatedly to be clear but obviously is not—as even speakers of Arabic will tell you—there is a contradiction.”

    Even Muslim intellectuals such as the Iranian Ali Dashti have found the literary style of the Quran to be defective: “The Quran contains sentences which are incomplete and unintelligible without…commentaries…illogically and ungrammatically applied pronouns which sometimes have no referent…more than 100 Quranic aberrations from Arabic’s normal rules have been noted”.

    • Wellington says

      Aug 4, 2015 at 7:57 pm

      The Koran, I submit, is rather like the Clintons, to wit, there is so much garbage spewed that keeping up with it all and trying to respond to it point by point can prove exhausting———and this is exactly what is intended, what represents the greatest strength here, i.e., fatiguing the truth.

      Put another way, there are lies, damn lies and then there are the Clintons and the Koran. Sorry to get contemporarily political, but I just couldn’t let a good analogy go by the boards.

      • Xero_G says

        Aug 4, 2015 at 8:23 pm

        Combine Taqiyya with Saul Alinsky’s radical rules and you have Hillary Clinton’s stump speech at the upcoming Democratic convention.

      • particolor says

        Aug 4, 2015 at 10:07 pm

        I wouldn’t trust a Muslim if they Dropped Stone Dead on the Pavement in front of Me !

    • gravenimage says

      Aug 4, 2015 at 10:26 pm

      Larry, thanks for the details of this whitewashed Qur’an. Very telling.

      This Mufti, like all pious Muslims, are a lot more honest about Islam when not in Da’wa mode trying to snow the Kuffar.

    • Zimriel says

      Aug 4, 2015 at 11:05 pm

      Maulana Muhammad Ali was an Ahmadi, and so his “translation” should be treated with about the same respect that a good Christian or Jew should treat a Jehovah’s-Witness Bible, or Mary Baker Eddy.

      • Western Canadian says

        Aug 5, 2015 at 9:52 pm

        In light of the many miss-translations in the KJV, I guess that one should be held at arms length too.

  31. Xero_G says

    Aug 4, 2015 at 8:07 pm

    Logic dictates that the Koran be labeled as Hate Speech that incites violence and should be banned. Western leftist academia and societal pontificators criticize “white privileges” for degrading society while turning a blind eye to the Islamic scourge that’s threatening the Earth. Pray tell; just how many people were kidnapped, raped, beheaded by White Republicans?

    • No Fear says

      Aug 4, 2015 at 8:27 pm

      Yes indeed. The Quran is hatespeech against unbelievers. And according to Islam the unbelievers are not allowed to criticise the stinking book. What a joke is Islam.

      • Joseph says

        Aug 4, 2015 at 9:50 pm

        The Kornhole-ran is also hate-speech against it’s believers. It is kike an evil coloring book, stray outside the lines and they will behead, shoot, stone, drown, blow up, cut off body parts or throw you from the rooftop.
        Glad Islam is not a religion of hate, I can’t imagine what they would think up to kill you.

        • Joseph says

          Aug 4, 2015 at 9:53 pm

          It is kike an evil ….it is *like*

          Sorry, bad hair day!

      • tamimisledus says

        Aug 17, 2015 at 2:59 am

        Minor clarification. non-muslims are not even allowed to repeat what islam says, if that would show islam in a bad light.

  32. Matthieu Baudin says

    Aug 5, 2015 at 12:36 am

    “…Harussani made his remarks when asked by Sinar to comment on newly-appointed Minister in the Prime Minister’s Department Datuk Azalina Othman, who commented on the country’s censorship laws which she said had stunted the creative industry. Azalina had said that the Film Censorship Board needs to relax its guidelines against banning intimate physical contact between Muslim male and female actors, since they were only acting out their roles…”

    Firstly, congratulations to Madame Othman for arguing the case against these ridiculous censorship constraints. Secondly, it may be easier to shift the entire Malaysian Film Industry to Sarawak, which is not an Islamic State within the federation, which is therefore in a position to resist the rising call for Sharia compliance that is bedevilling the rest of the country.

  33. celticwarriorcanada says

    Aug 5, 2015 at 1:42 am

    An excellent comparison and contrast between the koran and The New Testament ! Biblical Christianity does not teach people to believe with A Blind Faith : but rather ; Faith based on A Historical Fact,namely: the Birth , Life , Death and Resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth . As revealed in The Judaeo Christian Bible and Verified by such historians as Josephus , Eusebius etc.

    • Kasey says

      Aug 5, 2015 at 7:21 am

      His conception, death and ressurection are a gross mis-representation of what really happened to suit the plot of him being the son of a mythical diety which resides somewhere out there in space and has done so for over 14 billion years.

      • EYESOPEN says

        Aug 5, 2015 at 9:22 pm

        So YOU say…

      • Western Canadian says

        Aug 5, 2015 at 9:57 pm

        Feel free to site your proof of your assertions.

  34. Mahmoud says

    Aug 5, 2015 at 3:58 am

    Regarding your little quotes, it is just as easy to turn things the other way:

    “Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;” Proverbs 3:5

    “…Thus do We expound the revelations for people who reflect.” Qur’an, Yunus 10:24

    • Paul says

      Aug 5, 2015 at 9:48 am

      I’m not going to get into an argument with you about those quotes,
      but you are deceived. Your ‘Allah’ is not the same as the God of
      the Bible. Allah quite clearly has no son, as you know, and he wants
      to annihilate the Jews, unlike the God of the Bible. The Islamic ‘Jesus’
      is an impostor who the Jesus of the Bible warned us of that would
      “fool the elect if it were possible” (Matthew 24:24). In Revelation,
      Satan surrounds Jerusalem with his army. Who wants to invade Israel
      now? The Hindus? The Buddhists? The Shintoists? Zoroastrians? The
      Antichrist (Daniel 8) is not some homosexual Atheist, as many wrongly
      believe, but he’s a very devoutly religious man :

      …37″He will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the desire
      of women, nor will he show regard for any other god; for he will magnify
      himself above them all. 38″But instead he will honor a god of fortresses,
      a god whom his fathers did not know; he will honor him with gold, silver,
      costly stones and treasures. 39″He will take action against the strongest
      of fortresses with the help of a foreign god; he will give great honor to those
      who acknowledge him and will cause them to rule over the many, and will
      parcel out land for a price.…”

    • Paul says

      Aug 5, 2015 at 10:08 am

      What people today worship “a god of fortresses”, as well as the
      Antichrist of the end times spoken of? I wonder what people who
      surround Israel hate them enough to gather a 200 million man
      army against them, and who God deals with, as mentioned in
      Revelation (9:16)? You’ve been set up my friend, you need to come
      to Christ.

  35. More Ham Ed says

    Aug 5, 2015 at 5:42 am

    Islam is based on arrogance.

    • sidney penny says

      Aug 5, 2015 at 7:20 am

      and superiority.

      • particolor says

        Aug 5, 2015 at 7:27 am

        And Dead People 🙁

        • Joseph says

          Aug 5, 2015 at 11:20 am

          and an erection

        • particolor says

          Aug 5, 2015 at 8:06 pm

          At the Slightest Sight of a Strand of Muslima Hair !! 🙂

  36. Kasey says

    Aug 5, 2015 at 7:17 am

    What a devious way to avoid any comment or criticism. But Islam is still in reality a made-made belief of faith still attributed to a mythical god they imagine exists and is still the basis of any faith in a diety, even Allah. By default, their thinking actually means faith in Islam at least is illogical and without any intellectual credibility. The house of cards will collapse if ever given close examination

  37. sidney penny says

    Aug 5, 2015 at 7:23 am

    Robert is doing a fantastic job ” of closer examination”

  38. duh_swami says

    Aug 5, 2015 at 7:32 am

    ….the intellect is influenced by desires and subsequently susceptible to the devil.

    That and a $5 dollar bill will get you a beer in any bar/pub in town…
    I used to hate it when my XXX wife started thinking about something, a sure sign the devil just showed up and was looking for trouble.
    It’s best for Mahoundians not think to hard about Islam, that might create doubt or even apostasy, when they do that the devil shows up with an army of jinn. The best thing a Mahoundian, who want’s to please Allah can do is, ‘don’t think’, just obey…When Allah says, ‘kill those rotten kuffar wherever you find them’, don’t think, just do it…Allah willing, and he always is…

    • particolor says

      Aug 5, 2015 at 7:44 am

      For Allan so hated the World that He sent His only begotten Prophet Mohammed !! Bloody Hell ! I’m outta here !! 🙁

    • Barbara says

      Aug 5, 2015 at 8:54 am

      I hope you are being facetious!

  39. Marken says

    Aug 5, 2015 at 10:08 am

    Even the most westernize translation of the koran retains the vitriolic verses against

    the Christian faith, blasphemies against the Word of God remain fully ‘faithful’ to the original mess.

  40. rcourtemanche says

    Aug 5, 2015 at 2:20 pm

    Quite understandable that those mainly old Islamic geeks would opt for faith alone, most statements they make show a lot of mental retardation.

  41. Uncle Vladdi says

    Aug 5, 2015 at 5:44 pm

    So, “logic is influenced by emotions,” while “faith” (fact-free hope) is somehow NOT?!

    Unbelievable.

    The Bibles may have been edited and redacted by committees of scholars, philosophers and frauds, but the Qur’an wasn’t. At most, it was re-ordered by the caliph Uthman, from longest to shortest suras – he mistakenly assumed that the most important parts were the longest, when in reality statements of principle are always shortest, while examples of their symptoms require the most lengthy elucidation.

    Some people have found the Qur’an to be incomprehensible, but it’s not.

    One of the few lies Muhammad DIDN’T tell was when he claimed it’s message was clear and easy to read and understand. (The Quran is “easy to understand” 44:58, 54:22, 54:32, 54:40 “no doubt” 2:2 in it 32:2, 3 “…which there is no doubt”).

    It’s a critique and re-writing of the Bible stories, using the same names as those historical figures, but putting new and often slanderously opposite words into their mouths.

    It’s as if the Bibles had been re-written by a single man, and that man was Adolf Hitler. In other words, the Qur’an is what you’d get if Hitler had written the bible.

    The Qur’an is a clearly-written hate-crime expressing a permanent death-threat: it tells it’s moslem mind-slaves that they are in fact SO “superior” to all the non-members of their war and plunder cult, that it’s not only their right, but also their holy duty to their god, to extort, enslave, and murder all the non-moslems in the world, simply for the “crime” of not being moslems!

    The Qur’an “came from” the Bible the way monopoly money “came from” real legal tender! It’s really only a cheap knock-off/forgery!

    The Qur’an is ONLY a series of repetitive self-serving campaign speeches by Muhammad.

    Pretty-much every sura says exactly the same thing, so there’s no way it can be “taken out of context”nor misinterpreted!

    Most obviously, it can be summed up as:

    “This Book says Muhammad says Gabriel says Allah says that MUHAMMAD IS ALWAYS RIGHT!”
     
    (Whereby your average muslim is encouraged to believe that, if he pretends to believe Moe’s stories, he gets to “be always right!” too – “inshallah” – and by repeating the magic words “allah Akhbar!” [allah is greater] i.e: “than your silly “logic,” so die anyway, infidels!” the literally loopy lunatic’s circular tautology is completed and he never has engage in any ‘painful’ thinking for himself, ever again)!

    Muslims aren’t allowed to challenge whatever Muhammad said (33:36).

    “O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which if made plain to you, may cause you trouble… Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith.” (Quran. 5:101-102)

    *Capisce?*

    😉

    Islam slanders the idea of a good God, by asserting (in each and every chapter header in the Qur’an) that “god” is a violent destructive beast who has personally destroyed a lot of the abandoned ghost-towns in Arabia. This is speculation presented as fact (the towns were destroyed by tribal conflict or economic necessity); islam is founded on a lie.

    “So, obviously” it continues, “god” will get all the muslims, too – unless and until they at least try to get all the non-muslims for allah, first! Their “god” is nothing but a capricious, “unknown and unknowable” conscious scary Pain; something to be feared and obeyed, but never admire nor loved.

    Basically, “allah” is only Satan.

    …other than that, each and every chapter says:

    1) “Some stuff (like the mountains, desert, sky, and those ruined ghost-towns all over Arabia) exists, “So obviously” only one god created it all!”

    2) Because this one god ONLY wants to be feared and obeyed, never reasoned with nor loved, he only hates it when his creations dilute their fearful obedience of him with other (‘false’) gods (even though he actually causes their disbelief & disobedience in the first place)!”

    3) Therefore, before Muhammad, he sent down ‘other’ prophets and apostles to warn their peoples of the consequences of their unbelief and, when they failed to listen to their prophets, this GOD DESTROYED THEM ALL! (hence all those ruined ghost-towns all over Arabia).

    4) Therefore, FEAR allah and OBEY Muhammad, or GOD WILL DESTROY YOU, TOO (And then burn you in Hell forever)! Capisce?”

    This drivel can be dummied down as:

    “Some stuff exists, so OBEY MUHAMMAD! (Or Else)!”

    There is absolutely NO ‘theology’ nor spiritualism in islam!

    Unless you consider “allah’s” own schizophrenic penchant for idolatry – where he orders all his angels and jinn to bow down to his little clay idols (men) yet pretends to hate it when men bow down to clay idols.

    Even Iblis – “allah’s” conscience & psychiatrist – saw through this nonsense!

    Because if they don’t convert, enslave, or KILL all the non-muslims “for allah,” then allah will GET THEM too (and burn them in Hell forever) ALL muslims have declared war on ALL of mankind – on ALL non-members of their life-fearing, death-worshipping war-and-plunder cult!

    They are ordered to forcibly convert, or, if the conversion is declined, to enslave, and, if the slavery is resisted, to KILL all the non-muslims in the entire world!

    Because of this, the Qur’an is only a permanent, written death-threat to every non-muslim! Since all threats are psychological attacks (aka: “Terrorism”) and all attacks are crimes, islam is only a crime syndicate, all self-confirmed ‘muslims’ are already criminals (because they must state in public that they agree with these permanent threats) and the only “religious” part in islam is where they say:

    *”God told us to commit these crimes!”*

    …Unless you can somehow force yourself to believe that Muhammad’s modus operandi was somehow actually inspired by ‘God’ and that THIS is a righteous and just stance to take:

    Here’s islam’s “holy Message from god” as exemplified by the collective words and deeds of it’s Founder:

    “I will save humanity by lying to, extorting, torturing, robbing, burning out of their homes, kidnapping and ransoming, enslaving, raping and murdering everyone who even only verbally disagrees with me – and you can, too!”

    – Muhammad –

    ;-(

  42. kay says

    Aug 5, 2015 at 9:46 pm

    Re rejection of reason:
    If there can be no reason in law and government by fascist Islamic theocracy, then, well, there is no reason in law and government there.
    Many people outside the current Islamifascist states prefer reason and case law and legal amendments in law and government, thus we have a deep and broad social conflict. Somehow those who go for reason in law and government are termed “the Bad Guys”, while those who REJECT reason are “the Home Team”, even when they are from far away or in the minority.
    If reason and case law and legal amendments are wholly unacceptable in Islamic Law, then there can be no accomodation. “Parts of Islamic Law” cannot be incrementally added to a legal system of case law and amendments to the law.

    That means there is ONLY case law, or the rejection of that, the complete REMOVAL of ALL case law AND ALL human rights by fascist Islamic Law, with no middle ground.
    And since democracy is the legal / governmental system of many lands, and that is wholly unacceptable to the Islamists by strict principles from on high, there is only one course of action:
    a) the Islamists MUST fight / jihad their way to complete victory
    b) those who oppose Sharia MUST fight jihad down to nothing.
    There is nothing to negotiate. This is Total War…by degrees.
    Because you either have a case law system and commonly agreed principles of equity and reciprocity, or you have absolutist fascism based on Divine Right.

    • kay says

      Aug 5, 2015 at 11:17 pm

      The fact that some dhimmi-like major religious or political figures, like Pope Francis and President Obama, fully bow to Islam in principle – and therefore to all the principles of Sharia – can in no way obscure the overall approach and ultimate outcomes of jihad and Sharia.
      This Political Islam is in fact a war on humanity entire and it is wholly fascist.

      This claimed and completely unverifiable “divine right” definitely and clearly supports racist slavery and tribal annihilation as an authentic social and political system.
      For example, the Islamists sold ten million or more black African slaves, and over one hundred million Africans perished under Islamic slaveholding / transportation. They grabbed a million Europeans as well, from the Mediterranean all the way up to Ireland.
      Also, the Islamists have emphasized that all Jews ( and apostates leaving Islam, homosexuals, and various others ) must be exterminated. We had a name for this: Fascism. And we’ve seen in before, in the 1940s. So we know what this is about. It’s tyranny and war.

      Islam is Nazism with a God
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5RjyxVEMVo

      Because 14 centuries back some guy in the desert had a revelation, or hallucination, or something. And provided a lot of abrogations and so forth, all of which amount to the following in practice:
      Blind obedience and irrationality, hate speech and treachery, extortion and slavery, extreme bigotry and extreme misogyny, murder and threats of murder, wars of conquest and supremacism and Dhimmitude, and the complete destruction of all human rights.
      Why? Because their “divine” lawgiver hates freedom more than anything. It’s like Bakunin said: “As long as we have masters in heaven, we will be slaves on Earth.”

      Somehow that is “legally binding for everyone everywhere” from that time forward. Even or ESPECIALLY when others disagree. Remember, we are talking pure theological fascism, and reason and negotiation have no place nor compromise with pure totalitarian systems.
      The Islamic Law is a Law of Death, not a law that protects safety or freedom, but a law that destroys safety and freedom. It is the opposite of John Stuart Mill and John Locke, the opposite of the open society. The Islamic Law is the death of the open society, and this is the essence of Islam.

      • kay says

        Aug 5, 2015 at 11:33 pm

        We see that Islam is honest in one thing : it is religious, cultural and political commitment to the destruction of western society and western civilization, and to all human rights everywhere. Great stuff for classes in history and civics, no?
        Their approach is entirely clear and it is well attested in the Andrew Bostom books and Bill Warner analyses. It’s just, you know, fourteen centuries of fascist war and oppression.

        Under jihad and Sharia there can be no freedom of thought, no freedom of speech, and no freedom of assembly. By definition.
        As a practical matter for the many, it is clear that people need to understand the respective principles / models / priorities of
        a) the open societies / western civilization, and
        b) Islamofascist jihad and Sharia.
        Sooner rather than later. Like in high school.

        The basic idea is simple.
        Liberty and Islam Cannot Coexist – STOP ISLAM
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZp5mqVsjXA

        Well, how is that hard? For (a) we have John Locke and John Stuart Mill. For (b) we have the books by Andrew Bostom and Bill Warner.
        Social conflict and war are inevitable, ongoing, and globalizing. Just as fast as Islam, jihad, the indoctrination of children progress in different parts of the world.

        We need the tools and the language to understand the big picture. In depth and breadth. And the critical thinking skills and social organization skills for cultural counter-jihad.
        If some high schooler reads Bostom and Warner and they still want to go all Sharia and jihad, well, that’s a personal choice.

        But in the open societies, that is also TREASON: Political Islam MUST be the FORCIBLE overthrow of the many and the COMPLETE removal of human rights in favor of the carpet pilots and their leadership and their perfect psychopath, Mohammed the desert pirate.
        And people have to know what their personal and political choices mean up front.

        Counter Jihad is about HUMAN RIGHTS
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SwkADfQelU

        We are at the crossroads. Each person actively stands for basic human rights, or they do not. There is no third choice in this all-out cultural war.

    • particolor says

      Aug 6, 2015 at 12:46 am

      And if You don’t do something Despicable in Your Life , NO 72 for You ! 🙁 So ?

  43. Westman says

    Aug 6, 2015 at 12:24 am

    Logic??

    Dad: Son we should talk about your being a Muslim.

    Son: Sure Dad!

    Dad: I spoke the Shahadda in your ear as a baby and you’ve been been saying it since you were old enough to speak. Do you understand what it means?

    Son: Yes Dad. It means Allah is the only God and Muhammad was his last prophet.

    Dad: Yes, that’s right. Because you understand and have spoken the Shahada, you are officially a Muslim.

    Son: What if I don’t want to be a Muslim?

    Dad: Then either the Neighbors or I shall be required to kill you for being killed is the requirement for an Apostate.

    Son: But I didn’t really get a choice!

    Dad: There is no compulsion in Islam!

    Truly the Malaysian Mufti is correct: “Islam is based on faith…Don’t make any remarks based on the intellect or logic”

    And the Muslim World wonders why the world, now heavily based on logic and science, passed it by as it buys and uses all the technology it didn’t create.

    • particolor says

      Aug 6, 2015 at 12:34 am

      Yes We have noticed this ! The Filthy Kaffir Stuff is Kosher ! 🙂 It must be mentioned somewhere in The Book of Leeerve ?
      AH !! Here it is !! And Steal all their Stuff ! 🙂

  44. kay says

    Aug 6, 2015 at 12:26 am

    So we have to make a clear distinction between religion in the private sphere ( personal faith, e.g. carpet piloting ) and religion in the public sphere ( jihad and Sharia and the destruction of civilization ). The key to the public debate is that
    (a) violent overthrow ( jihad ) of the state is treason, both against society and against humanity;
    (b) no one is above or below the law, and no one and no doctrine can be above criticism, and no one is below the law and reduced to speechlessness and abject servitude.
    These are the ground rules for a society to function, to be sane and healthy.

    Therefore high school kids need to really get that Political Islam EQUALS treason and that ONLY basic human rights like freedom of speech and equality guarantee a co-operative society. They need to learn about social responsibility and equity and treason and human rights in the public schools. Right now we are failing the next generation, and the consequent risk is extreme.

    This does not mean that parents and churches etc. are exempt from their moral duties. For example, it is ridiculous to claim that Islam is anything like a continuation of Pauline Christianity or Judaism when Islam is clearly the suppression and destruction of both. That can and should be taught to the young in appropriate venues, along with real principles of human relationships and ethics, the non-destructive kinds.

    More generally, this debate is very much about Reason and the ethics of justice and the respective roles of the individual and society. Whatever a person may believe or want. This all comes under the area of social philosophy, and in social philosophy, the starting point is
    a) “no one owns us, we choose our own responsibilities”;
    b) the Silver Rule : Do not treat others in ways that you find unacceptable.
    Social philosophy is clearly the opposite of Nazism, Communism, and in particular Islam.
    Those are closed systems, but philosophy is open, a dialogue, a dialectic.
    And that makes all the difference. That is the basis of the open society.
    As Saul Alinsky said, “The banner of the free society organizer emphasizes the question mark.”

    • kay says

      Aug 6, 2015 at 1:30 am

      ( Part 5 of 5 )
      Archetypally, the choice is between Reason and the darkness of Irrationality.
      THE DRAIN – by Eric Allen Bell
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bw1YvE2iZZ0

      The alternative to that latter is to train young people in critical reasoning skills.
      In France they teach philosophy to high school girls. Why?
      I don’t think any of this is difficult to grasp.
      First, in 18th century France they learned about democracy from the Americans ( sourced from the Iroquois via Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Paine ).
      Second, the Frogs developed the basic principles of Liberte’, Egalite’, Fraternite’ and Laicite’. They threw off the monarchy and the church. Not that it was a painless transition.
      Third, the Frogs got that these abstract social principles required a basic foundation of philosophical reasoning. So they teach it to their kids. That’s called civilization.

      “Laicite'( secularism ) is really to refuse that we are living in a society where the law, the justice, of course the state is inspired by religious rules instead of human law. . .” from
      Author Caroline Fourest on Secularism against Fanaticism (Secular Conference) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_BUjpqIgp8

      This is the fulcrum of the debate.
      There is only one choice for people, whether as individuals or as societies. It is Laicite’ or Theocracy.
      Stephane Charbonnier and Charlie Hebdo got that. Charbonnier said: “I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees.” That’s basically what Albert Camus and the French Resistance were about.
      One approach is fair play, reason and negotiation, case law etc. And courage, as in Stephane Charbonnier and Albert Camus. The other is pure fascism. The choice is clear and we’ve been here before.

      “We are promoting a model of society where there is a place for everyone.” – Caroline Fourest
      And as Camus said “We have nothing to lose but everything, so let us begin.”
      Let ink flow, not blood. <>
      I have made my existential and social choices. These are:
      Liberte’. Egalite’. Fraternite’. Laicite’. Authenticite’. Solidarite’. That is my dharma.

      What happens if we don’t take the high road together? The answer is obvious: there are now 14 million refugees in Syria / Iraq. There are also food crises there and in Yemen. Other countries are breaking or torn apart. All brought about by failures of democracy and by fanatical militarized religion. Islam is the problem, and religion is what divides us from each other.
      Religion is NOT a valid principle of human social organization. Over one hundred million lives have been lost in the global Islamic wars to date, and very possibly twice that. Things are very bad now and they will get much worse all over. For the next hundred years or so. We know what we’re up against.

      Human freedom and shared responsibility are the answer to that set of problems. As in the 1940s. As in the Islamic or approximately Islamic countries. I did not say this would be easy. Only that it is necessary.
      Success is the opposite of failure, just as respect and co-operation are the opposite of irrationality and hatred and violence, the opposite of Islamic fascism or any other kind of fascism.

      The default choice of passivity by the free peoples leads eventually to complete failure and a return to the Dark Ages, the worst possible kind. War is upon us all, and there are many traitors to freedom and civilization among us. This struggle is all based on cultural warfare so we must break their sociopathic / psychopathic bad guy narrative to win. And offer a real alternative that works for everyone.
      “All for one and one for all, that’s the principle.” We owe it to the next generation. Message ends.

  45. voegelinian says

    Aug 6, 2015 at 1:46 pm

    Well, looking over the whole comments thread, I’m glad it hasn’t attracted any Islamopologists, or their unwitting PC MC enablers (or even the creamier, sweeter cousins of the latter, the asymptotic Counter-Jihadists) depositing blather about the “Golden Age” of Islam and how the “Mutazilites” encouraged philosophy, etc.

    Perhaps Angemon’s new friend “Liatris Spicata” has been banned (again)…? 🙂

    • Angemon says

      Aug 6, 2015 at 3:13 pm

      voegelinian posted:

      “Perhaps Angemon’s new friend “Liatris Spicata””

      And yet, you feign offense when I compare you to Goebbels on the grounds of your repetition of lies and propaganda meant to defame those who you can’t take on a fair, factual-based discussion… Again: I get to decide who’s a friend of mine, not you. By now, it should be clear that I don’t consider Liatris a friend, but you are not one to let facts get in the way of a good narrative, are you? No, you’ll keep making and spreading lies, and trying to play the victim whenever someone holds you accountable for them.

      If only you were to dedicate 1/10th of the time and energy you put into defaming people like Robert Spencer, Hugh Fitzgerald, Jamie Glazov, Raymond Ibrahim, and a long list of JW regulars (like myself, Philip Jihadski, Champ, mortimer, etc.) to the service of the CJ movement instead of against it…

  46. kay says

    Aug 7, 2015 at 6:43 am

    Mahmoud says August 5, 2015 at 3:58 am
    Regarding your little quotes, it is just as easy to turn things the other way:
    “Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;” Proverbs 3:5
    ———————

    Well, that’s a complete blunder. You quoted from the Old Testament. That’s a Jewish scripture.
    The Jewish scripture is about the history of the Jewish people and their covenant with their lord protector deity.
    The idea of the contract is that by upholding this covenant these people are protected from on high.

    Islam is very much about killing the Jews. That’s the opposite of the covenant.
    Islamists don’t get to quote the Old Testament because they want to destroy the people and history of the Old Testament.
    Muslims are pro Sharia and Sharia is the death of the Jewish people.
    Muslims can’t quote the Old Testament any more than Hitler’s Nazis.

    “The only religion I respect is Islam. The only prophet I admire is the Prophet Muhammad.”
    — Adolph Hitler, quoted by Ahmed Huber; Kevin Coogan, “The mysterious Achmed Huber: Friend to Hitler”

    You might as well go to a British military observance wearing a Nazi Third Reich uniform.

    There seems to be a vast and pervasive set of cognitive disorders ( as well as conative disorders ) among the Islamists and Mulims generally. It’s some kind of mass hysteria I mean, we need to write big thick books about all the insanity in Islamic culture, These are not rational people. It’s all based on blackwhite and doublethink. What the Muslims say about Judaism and about Christianity makes no sense whatsoever.
    What I don’t get is how anyone can claim to be “Spiritual” or “lawful” when all they do is hate and destroy all the monotheists AND polytheists, and also destroy all basic laws of social reciprocity.
    The Islamic wars claimed 100 million to 200 million lives. This is the “religion of peace” ?

    This garbage doesn’t even begin to work for the Muslims. Syria and Iraq are basically Islamic civil wars. Then, tons of these delusional Muslims ( in Egypt and elsewhere ) claim that Islamic State is somehow a “plot” or conspiracty hatched by the United States and Israel.
    Maybe these idiots also think that Hitler’s Nazi regime was a Jewish conspiracy.

    Seriously, the big lesson in political discourse is to study the history and the ideology and the social affiliations and pressures. And to dig into multiple sources.
    People think religion is somehow related to “truth” and “wisdom” and “brotherhood among men”. Actually, the worst forms of deceit are the lies of religious and/or political history.
    The best lie I know is the Koran. The Koran isn’t a revealed book. The Koran was put together by Uthman, not by Mohammed.
    We don’t even know if Mohammed would even accept Uthman’s work. And Uthman BURNED THE SOURCE TEXTS for his edition.
    The Koran is a complete joke. And these people want to quote Christian and Hebrew scripture?
    Give me a break!

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