Just as with the recent “study” that purported to show that “right-wing extremists” were more of a threat than Islamic jihadists, in saying this Obama is probably leaving out 9/11. And if even a fraction of the foiled jihad plots had come to fruition, this would be an even more risible claim than it is.
“Watch What Obama Says About Gun Violence and Terrorism When Asked About WDBJ Shooting,” by Oliver Darcy, The Blaze, August 26, 2015:
…In an interview with WPVI-TV, the president reacted to the killing of 24-year-old reporter Alison Parker and 27-year-old photojournalist Adam Ward.
“It breaks my heart every time you read or hear about these kids of incidents,” Obama said.
“What we know is that the number of people who die from gun-related incidents around this country dwarfs any deaths that happen through terrorism,” the president added.

Rev g says
And of course, malpractice kills even greater numbers. Relevance?
kikorikid says
How is this incident NOT TERRORISM?
American says
Oh. So, I guess terrorism is OK, then….
mortimer says
“There are three kinds of lies: there are lies, damn lies and statistics.” -Mark Twain
Concealing the great risk to us of terrorism will lead to its eventually being successful. Without vigilance, the people will not be aware that terrorists are learning to fly the airplane, but not land it.
Obama’s fishing for an opportunity to disarm Americans. Nice try.
Sam says
This Obama is repulsive. What can I say?
EYESOPEN says
Concur.
Azacque says
VERY REPULSIVE
Huck Folder says
“It breaks MY heart every time YOU read or hear about these kids [sic] of incidents,” Obama said.”
Thank you, Ivy League.
“What we know is that the number of people who die from gun-related incidents around this country dwarfs any deaths that happen through terrorism,” the president added.”
And?
Champ says
“What we know is that the number of people who die from gun-related incidents around this country dwarfs any deaths that happen through terrorism,” the president added.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
obama is a forked-tongue devil, alright …
Wellington says
I don’t give a Goddamn what this bastard says anymore. No one of sense should pay him any respect. I certainly don’t. I simply can’t stand the man. He gets almost everything wrong. And he’s a arrogant prick to boot. Disgusting human being.
EYESOPEN says
Good heavens Wellington! That’s 3 quarters you have to put in the profanity jar now!
{;o)
JIMJFOX says
Wellington is normally far more measured and analytical-
this must have got right up his nose. Obama sure is a
polarising figure!
Wellington says
Obama has done more damage to America than any other person in all of American history. Bar none.
He has run up some nine trillion dollars of debt in less than seven years—-and to no effect.. He has taken the American military to a pre-WWII status. He has withdrawn American power from the world and the result is that tyrants aplenty have been emboldened. He has ignorantly nixed the Keystone pipeline. He has been kind to the cruel (e.g., Iran) and cruel to the kind (e.g., Israel). He has stupidly and weakly made threats he has not carried out (e.g., the “Red Line” bravado in Syria). He has racially polarized this country. He has unwarrantedly interfered in ongoing legal cases (e.g., the Professor Gates brouhaha and the Trayvon Martin case). He has done NOTHING about the IRS scandal. He has not enforced many laws that he should have (e.g. on immigration). He sold the Poles and Czechs down the river on missile defense (they’ll never trust him again). He has made one excuse after another for the spiritual totalitarianism which is Islam, including scrubbing from all American agencies any reference to Islamic texts as a reason for Islamic terrorism. He is an empty suit who knows very little (e.g. he think “Austrian” is a language).
My God, the list is a very long one of the harm this wretched man has done, Don’t you get any of this, JimFOX?
gravenimage says
Excellent post, Wellington.
jihad3tracker says
1. Obama is FULLY AWARE of his own 2 administrations being considered as the worst in U.S. history.
2. On his treasonous Muslim mind also is Islam’s goal of American destruction playing out every day.
3. Disgusting human being — exactly as Wellington writes.
The astonishingly courageous Pam Geller titled one of her books “The Post-American Presidency”, and she nailed it.
jihad3tracker says
Month by month persons of his racial proclivity seem to land disproportionately on the perpetrator list of domestic jihad related violence; AHEAD OF WHITES, ASIANS, HISPANICS, INDIGENOUS GUYS, SAMOANS, MALADJUSTED CYBORGS.
An inquiring mind might almost conclude there is a serious issue of less than full patriotism amongst his cohort — and this inconvenient fact adds to a heavy infestation of mind-rot at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
As a certifiably old geezer (age 67) DEMOCRAT, who clearly remembers every president since John Kennedy (1961), I can tell the younger folks here that BHO is a once-in-a-lifetime POS, and it becomes obvious to millions of us at an ever faster pace week by week.
Peter Charles says
These people, like Obama are simply anti Second Amendment. They want all the power to themselves. They ignore the 262,000,000 murdered by government last century. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolph_Rummel
So , given governments miserable record and the over 26,500 fatal attacks by islamists since 9-11-2002, what’s his solution? BTW, where’s the president on our man overcoming a jihadist terrorist in Paris, France……
American says
I’m anticipating that our man overcoming the jihadist in Paris will be getting an IRS audit soon….
duh_swami says
Peter…Governments kill a lot of people, but they never ‘murder’ anyone…
Angemon says
Hey. Remember when Chris Kyle was killed, and Obama was like, “……”? You know, pretending nothing happened? “Chris who?”
https://youtu.be/llLVMUlDpaE
Was the Fort Hood massacre a terrorist attack or a “gun-related incident”?
EYESOPEN says
Didn’t you hear Angemon? It was “workplace violence”. {;o)
Voytek Gagalka says
“It breaks my heart every time you read or hear about these kids of incidents.”
Did he EVER said such a thing after terror attacks, however less numerous (he claims)? No, I don’t recollect. Because I despise using vulgarities and profanities, particularly against the OFFICE of the POTUS (however I might despise the man and disagree with him), I withhold any further comment on that…
mortimer says
Indeed. He doesn’t say it breaks his heart when hundreds of Christians are murdered by jihadists.
Jan sobieski says
So his point is….we should relax and let Islamic Supremicists kill us?
gerard says
“What we know is that the number of people who die from gun-related incidents…”
I think that’s called “evasion”.
DVult says
More people are killed by x than y therefore y is not a problem. It is if you are the one killed by y you flaming jug eared idiot.
Bezelel says
Gun related incidents is a wide brush. Police apprehending criminals or defending themselves count in that column as well as people defending themselves from home invaders, muggers, car jackers and shop keepers against robbers and any number of valid uses for using a firearm to protect yourself. Did the shot that took down nidal hassan count too? Then how do you account for thwarted terrorist attempts and the potential loss of life? September is 11 is just around the corner and hussein obola seems unconcerned. If he had one ounce of integrity he would resign and self deport/exile never to be seen again. The sight of that ghoul is sickening.
Nathan R. Adams says
All I care to remember about Obama is this…….GOD DAMN AMERICA, for how many years!!
quotha raven says
to Nathan R Adams – who sez, “All I care to remember about Obama is this…….GOD DAMN AMERICA, for how many years!!”
I believe, Nathan, that he claimed he’d been attending that church for twenty years, and that his daughters were christened there within. But that was before he was elected POTUS the first time, and maybe even before he won the Democratic nomination. He was THEN (certainly not now, as the deception is no longer a useful political tool) trying to pass himself off as a virtuous practicing Christian. Don’t forget, when it became politically expedient, he threw that preacher under the bus.
It behooves us all to appreciate just how thoroughly cynical and dangerous a man our president is, entirely malevolent to the sovereign USA and its Constitution, which he has virtually destroyed.
Cheers! Quotha R
Myxlplik says
So essentially we know there are more guns in America than there are people, and that some people will use them to kill for random reasons, and it’s bad, thanks Obamy. We also know that Muslims who are about 1 percent of our population will use them (guns) to kill due to ideological imperatives (terrorism), and that the random reasons (not terrorism) 99 percent of our population comes up with get more people killed than the structured ideological reasons (terrorism) that the one percent Muslims can come up with.
Nicely put Obamy, lucky thing you aren’t inviting thousands more over, because that 1 percent seems pretty motivated to kill for their ideology. So at what percent of our population will the Muslim reasons (terror) outpace the random reasons, Obamy?
Davegreybeard says
Your odds of being confronted by a gun toting thug greatly exceed the odds of being confronted by a gun toting terrorist.
Therefore, you should disarm yourself, in order to reduce “gun violence.”
– Barak Obama and the Democrat Party.
Diana says
Yes it is true – gun violence does cause more deaths on US soil than terrorist attacks – so far anyway. “What we know is that the number of people who die from gun-related incidents around this country dwarfs any deaths that happen through terrorism”.
All the known US terrorist murders including Twin Towers, Chatanooga and Fort Hood (despite its false classification of as a “workplace incedent”) simply DO NOT YET come close to the annual gun murder toll in the US.
On this issue the president is absolutely correct. So why deny the truth? I understand that most people on this forum absolutely hate Obama for all sorts of reasons (fair enough) and you are entitled to your opinions. But is this vehement reaction to Obama’s truthful comments just another case of not letting the facts get in the way of the story? Please consider the following facts: –
From Wikipedia: “Gun violence in the United States results in thousands of deaths and thousands more injuries annually.[1] According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in 2013 firearms (excluding BB and pellet guns) caused 84,258 nonfatal injuries (26.65 per 100,000 U.S. citizens) [2] and 11,208 deaths by homicide (3.5 per 100,000),[3] 21,175 by suicide with a firearm,[4] 505 deaths due to accidental discharge of a firearm,[4] and 281 deaths due to firearms with “undetermined intent”[5] for a total of 33,169 deaths related to firearms. The ownership and control of guns are among the most widely debated issues in the country.[1]” and further …
“According to the FBI, in 2012, there were 8,855 total firearm-related homicides in the US, with 6,371 of those attributed to handguns.[7] 61% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. are suicides.[8] In 2010, there were 19,392 firearm-related suicides, and 11,078 firearm-related homicides in the U.S.[9] In 2010, 358 murders were reported involving a rifle while 6,009 were reported involving a handgun; another 1,939 were reported with an unspecified type of firearm.[10]”
Again from Wikipedia: …”Between 2007 and 2013, however, the rate of active shooter incidents per year in the US has increased.[13][14] Hand guns figured in the Virginia Tech massacre, Binghamton shootings, 2009 Fort Hood shooting, Oikos University shooting, and 2011 Tucson shooting. The Aurora theater shooting and the Columbine High School massacre were committed by assailants armed with multiple weapons.”
So far it seems that US authorities are in absolute agreement with what the president said so why all the outrage about a perfectly valid comment? Surely as mature and intelligent people we can acknowledge that to date there HAVE NEVER been 8,855 total jihad-related homicides in the US in one single year – or the last 20 years combined unless these incidents have not been reported. If you have different and verifiable statistics then please supply them here.
I do accept that US jihadis would undoubtedly dearly love to eclipse that number of murders of kuffars on US soil. But they have not done it yet – unless the press have failed to report these jihadi murders in the US. Nothing now stops any would-be jihadi murderers from getting an ample supply of high powered guns though does it?
Davegreybeard says
Well, “there you go again” Diana, a true foaming at the mouth, wild eyed, gun banning nutter.
Tell me, as clearly and briefly as you can, Diana, why I should give up my legally acquired gun, that I am fully licensed to carry concealed.
This, in a world full of murderous thugs and equally murderous Jihadis, with the Jihadi component increasing daily – we both agree on this don’t we?
Hint, you will not find your argument to talk us out of our Second Amendment rights by consulting Wikipedia.
Diana says
Well, “there you go again” Dave, making more attacks on me because I point out the truth. I am not as you say “a true foaming at the mouth, wild eyed, gun banning nutter.”
I am however sufficiently intelligent to appreciate the facts – even facts that I personally do not like. I have never once suggested that you give up your guaranteed right under your Constitution to carry a gun concealed. I merely pointed out to you the unpleasant and undeniable facts that easy access to guns does have a massive downside – people with guns kill people and guns are designed to kill people. Try not to go off half cocked and arguably “foaming at the mouth” (but notice I am not actually accusing you of doing this – just wondering tho’). Please stop attributing to me things I have never said here or anywhere else for that matter – it is offensive, inaccurate and weakens your already arguments.
This is a free-speech forum is it not? I support your right to free speech Dave even if I disagree with you. Why do you have a problem with my right to free speech Dave? Is it just because we disagree about the benefits of having too-easy access to guns?
“This, in a world full of murderous thugs and equally murderous Jihadis, with the Jihadi component increasing daily – we both agree on this don’t we?”
Yes Dave that we do both agree that the Jihadi component is increasing daily – so how the hell do you propose to stop these nutters from getting a cache of guns and killing more innocent people Dave? Should the US enact laws contrary to your own constitution and deny these jihadis guns on the basis of their religion Dave?
Hint you will find the first Amendment online but to save you the trouble Dave here it is (from Cornell Uni)
“Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”
Are you making a case to repeal the first amendment Dave? I infer that – but grant that you may not intend that but if so have you any other positive and singularly un-American suggestions to make here Dave?
Having a gun does not necessarily protect you from a terrorist. Please answer me this Dave – would having a concealed gun on their person have saved a single life in the horrific Twin Towers attack? A simple yes or no answer please without the irrelevant commentary.
The incidents on the train in France last week make an interesting comparison don’t they. Perhaps the thwarted jihadi was blessed to find that cache of weapons and ammo under a bush in a park – or maybe he was just excercising his right to bear arms? The heroic acts of your own countrymen prove that brave US citizens and others really can and do avert jihadi nutters bare-handed. They were unarmed, he was disarmed and everyone on the train stayed unharmed. Please consider and please no more ad hominem attacks thanks Dave.
duh_swami says
Diana…I like my 2nd amercement rights way more than I like you… or your idol Rasool Obama the stealth jihadist. Your mental gymnastics are appalling…..keep your grubby fingers off my rights….
Rev g says
Of course, more people are killed with hammers in the USA than with guns. If guns and hammers were outlawed, I imagine that knives and pipes would increase in use as weapons. A gun is still the best of the tools available for someone to defend against an attacker, especially a physically more powerful attacker.
Bezelel says
Diana, Thank you for trying to address the facts. Now would you please go a little further and note the number of incidents done by people on psychotropic meds? Also the race or ethnicity, religion if any their family structure, etc etc… and I think you will find more common denominators where the circles overlap than just the weapon of choice. Statistics are ok if they aren’t abused.
gravenimage says
Diana wrote:
This is a free-speech forum is it not? I support your right to free speech Dave even if I disagree with you. Why do you have a problem with my right to free speech Dave?
………………………….
Diana, Dave was using his own freedom of speech when he criticized some of your views.
At *no* point did he suggest that your ability to speak freely be curtailed or that you be banned–not at all.
A major aspect of freedom of speech is the freedom to critique the ideas of others. Those who consider such differences of opinion to be an attack on free speech itself do not, I’m afraid, fully understand the concept.
quotha raven says
To Diana – I think if you make a distinction between guns owned by non-criminal private citizens and criminally-owned guns you might adjust your anti-gun position.
Do you think that, were our gun laws tightened up, those criminals who now use guns to commit crimes would give them up? Or do you think that the bad guys would continue to own, trade, buy and use illegal guns, while honest citizens would be rendered more vulnerable by having theirs taken away?
Do you perceive Switzerland, for example, to be a crime-ridden, violent country? Switzerland boasts one of the highest rates of citizen-owned guns in the world today.
Cheers! Quotha R
quotha raven says
To Diana – who sez, “The incidents on the train in France last week make an interesting comparison don’t they.”
Comparison to or with what, girlfriend?
AND
” Perhaps the thwarted jihadi was blessed to find that cache of weapons and ammo under a bush in a park – or maybe he was just exercising his right to bear arms?”
Right, and storks bring babies. Are you saying you believe the Moroccan guy’s explanation as to where he got the guns he carried aboard that train with the intention to assassinate as many innocent citizens as his huge supply of ammunition would allow? He was not “just exercising his right to bear arms”, Diana.
He sounds, btw, exactly like the muslim in San Francisco, who came by his weapon in similar fashion…he just “found it, loaded, on a bench,” so he used it to kill a pretty young lady, sightseeing with her dad, and whom he’d never laid eyes on before. Do you think these two might have been coached by the same imam as to explaining how they acquire the guns they are blessed to use in the service of Allah?
This occurrence took place on a train in France, Diana. Our Second Amendment right to bear arms does not extend to the French, tant pis pour eux.
I would suggest that this is a guy not unlike the crooks and madmen who use illegal guns in the USA for similar purposes, and you make my point that to tighten up gun control in the USA only renders innocent citizens more vulnerable. People DID get shot and killed on that train, you know?
AND
“The heroic acts of your own countrymen prove that brave US citizens and others really can and do avert jihadi nutters bare-handed. They were unarmed, he was disarmed and EVERYONE ON THE TRAIN STAYED UNHARMED.”
Except for the several who WERE shot and wounded. One died yesterday in the hospital. He was a married American guy named Mark, who’d lived in Paris for decades. He was a teacher and a musician. and, of course, let’s not forget the brave American Air force guy who brought the would-be terrorist down. The one whose thumb was nearly severed from the rest of him. Maybe if he’d been armed with a gun, he wouldn’t have had to get quite so “up close and personal” with the Moroccan that he suffered such knife wounds as he did. This part of your comment is REALLY moronic. Sorry, but it is.
AND, finally,
“Please consider and please no more ad hominem attacks thanks Dave.”
Dave’s remarks are not an ad hominem attack, Diana. He is responding to you with reasonable criticism of what you posted here. Your thin skin is all exposed.
Cheers! Quotha R
Western Canadian says
And when then number of gang on gang and drug related deaths are factored out….. Very low murder rate in the US. Take out the 12 most violent cities in the US (most or all run by democrat party machines), and you have a very low murder rate in the US. Compare county by county (until the thug in chief has his way) and blue voting counties, have an extremely low murder rate. Red (democrat) voting counties, have some of the highest murder rates in the world….
Rev g says
Um, you have your color assignments backwards.
Western Canadian says
OOPS!!
RonaldB says
Hello Diana,
Let’s argue statistics and consequences.
You cite raw numbers of gun-related homicides and suicides, which are greater than the total number of successful jihad deaths in the US.
One conclusion, which you did not specifically mention, is to enact gun control. But, there are actually three related questions to consider, other than the Constitutional question, of course.
1) Would gun control have significantly reduced the number of gun-related homicides? Taking it further, would gun control increase the number of gun-related homicides?
2) Would gun control have unintended side-effects that would be worse than the present homicide rate? For example, people would be unable to defend their homes against break-ins. Women would be vulnerable to attack and rape by single men, who statistically are much stronger than women. Almost any male would be vulnerable to attack by a group of 3 or more men. For example, Chicago (one of the most virulent gun-control spots in the country) has a problem with ad-hoc gangs of young blacks robbing and beating white pedestrians for fun.
http://mic.com/articles/31953/what-is-mob-action-chicago-teens-plan-and-execute-deliberately-violent-flash-mob-in-downtown-chicago
3) Following on the question above, would gun control make law-abiding citizens vulnerable to gang-related violence and rioting? For example, in New Orleans, during Katrina, there was rampant violence by black criminals and gangs, in the absence of law enforcement. The police devoted what resources they had to…disarming law-abiding citizens. Similarly, during the Ferguson riots, some store owners protected their property with shotguns.
http://fox2now.com/2014/08/16/store-owners-guard-ferguson-stores-with-their-own-guns/
Western Canada makes the point that many of the murder statistics are generated through criminal violence against criminals, that is, gang wars in Chicago and street crime in Washington DC, again two places with extremely strict gun-control ordinances for law-abiding citizens.
So, it brings up the question of whether taking away the protection of guns from law-abiding citizens would lower the gun homicide rates, or if the gangs and drug dealers would even notice. It would certainly increase the terror for people in their homes or on the streets who are not gang members or street criminals.
Do we want to include gun-related suicides as an argument for gun control? It seems to me that you ought not punish people who have legitimate use for guns, in order to prevent suicide by firearm. Of course, you can also commit suicide with cars or poisons or hanging. In other words, there are worse things than having some extra deaths show up in statistics.
I myself would not take raw statistics on gun-related deaths to conclude that citizens should not be allowed guns to defend their homes, or that citizens should not be allowed to carry firearms after being vetted by investigation. We would be in the position of chasing a statistical possibility at the cost of a very real Constitutional freedom.
voegelinian says
As Spencer aptly notes, all the plots by Muslims that intended to mass-murder, but failed only because they were stopped in time, also should count, because they demonstrate the intent to mass-murder — which naturally (if we’ve been educating ourselves about the problem Islam) we have good reason to suppose is getting horribly worse over time, and portends even worse attacks in the future. The Dianas of the world seem to think Islamic terrorism is some kind of natural phenomenon that will remain stable indefinitely.
Champ says
Bad idea Diana …
At a time when IS is on the rise the *last* thing Americans should be doing is listening to your suggestions and/or getting rid of their guns! …and of course I support our second amendment right under the U.S. Constitution, even if IS weren’t a factor.
Bad idea Diana, under any circumstance.
L Anne says
And about the same number of people die in car accidents every year as are killed by guns. Are cars next?
livingengine says
Pat Condell’s masterpiece “American Dhimmi”. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ3KOZCM91c
Vienna says
I may not know a lot about the USA but I know about the second amendment (hang on to that one for dear life) and that in the past there has been successful presidential assassinations. Now I don’t condone murder but…
gravenimage says
Anti-Jihadists don’t assassinate people. You must have confused us with pious Muslims.
Vienna says
Lol, of course not! It was just my way of expressing my disgust for the POTUS.
gravenimage says
OK, Vienna.
RonaldB says
A very large percentage of violence-related deaths in the US is a result of black on black violence.
Strong police work is needed in black communities to suppress this sort of violence. The Obama administration and Justice Department has worked hard to ensure that police will step lightly, if at all, when dealing with violent blacks. The result, as seen in Baltimore and Ferguson, has been a dramatic rise in homicides.
The armed citizen is a primary barrier against the gang violence being encouraged by the Obama administration.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/08/24/packing-heat-in-detroit-motown-residents-answer-police-chief-call-to-arms/
Obama’s response is to attack the Constitutional right of citizens to carry arms under the regulatory provisions of reasonable state laws. This will leave the streets open to gang violence, as exemplified by, but not limited to, Chicago, a city rabidly engaged in disarming every law-abiding citizen.
There is no longer any mystery as to how the Obama administration will act and what positions it will take. The Obama administration takes every stand consistent with a racial, tribal, leftist partisan government more concerned with creating a revolutionary milieu than with protecting the United States or enforcing its laws.
DRHazard says
Obama’s own treaty with Iran pretty much ensures that the statistical imbalance he trumpets will eventually be addressed. And just why does he even have to say that? Why does he even feel the need to compare apples to oranges? Why is he such a such an apologist for the members of one particular religion?
Western Canadian says
Number of legal gun owners in the US? 80,000,000 or close to it. Number of criminals the courts bend over backwards to coddle? Probably over 2,000,000…. Number or devout muslims in the US? 2,000,000 or so.. Gee, legal gun owners outnumber devout muslims by 20, 40, or maybe even more, and yet the number of deaths from devout muslims, is somehow to be compared to the number of deaths due to coddled criminals of the non-devout muslim variety, which is supposed to mean….. that the thug in chief is a lying moron, perhaps.
gravenimage says
Obama: Many more in US die from gun-related incidents than from terrorism
…………………….
Not only is the general implication here bs, but how are these two separate issues?
Jihadists sometimes use other weapons, such as the 9/11 Jihad terrorists or the Boston Marathon bombers. But Jihadists often use guns themselves–counting all gun violence as separate from Jihad is just rot.
The Ft Hood Massacre was a shooting, the Chattanooga attack was a shooting, and after the Tsarnaevs got through using their pressure cooker bomb, they shot an MIT police officer to death.
The same is true abroad–the killings in Ottawa were shootings, the massacre at Charlie Hebdo was a shooting, and the would-be massacre on the French train was a shooting.
Does Obama want to pretend that if law-abiding Americans give up their guns that Jihadists will disarm, as well?
Rezali Mehil says
Salaam Graven,
I see you are back …how is your Mother In Law….better now …or moved to the other side…seeing that she studied ancient Egyptian cultuer…she was almost Egyptian…..do you plan to have her mummified?
I told you last year that there will BE A MILLION more muslims in Europe within the next decade…hmmm I was out by nine years. I have upped my estimate by 5 million more in a decade…kuffar will try and slow things down a little.
Obama will try and de-gun America as best as he can in the next 2 years….
It is no longer God save America …it is Allah SWT bless America.
More Later ….
Rezali
gravenimage says
The repulsive Rezali Mehil wrote:
Salaam Graven,
I see you are back …how is your Mother In Law….better now …or moved to the other side…
………………………………….
Here’s the vile Rezali Mehil, sneering at my elderly mom-in-law–we all know how an elderly and infirm Infidel would fare under Islam. Here’s what her own fellow Muslims in Britain did to an octogenarian grandmother in London:
“UK: Woman beheaded in broad daylight by machete-wielding Muslim…”
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/09/uk-woman-beheaded-in-broad-daylight-by-machete-wielding-muslim-police-rule-out-terrorism
More:
seeing that she studied ancient Egyptian cultuer (sic)…she was almost Egyptian…..do you plan to have her mummified?
………………………………….
What stupidity. Clearly, Mohammedans have no understanding of the study of history. Infidels can study any subject out of interest–it doesn’t mean that they adhere to every point of view held by the culture they study.
To imply that my mother-in-law’s academic study of ancient Egypt makes her “almost an Egyptian” is just ludicrous.
And while the ancient Egyptians could be brutal–what ancient culture wasn’t?–they were actually much more civilized than the barbaric Muslim hordes that eventually overwhelmed their successors.
More:
I told you last year that there will BE A MILLION more muslims in Europe within the next decade…hmmm I was out by nine years. I have upped my estimate by 5 million more in a decade…kuffar will try and slow things down a little.
………………………………….
More sneering at the “filthy Kuffar” and how we will be overwhelmed by her savage coreligionists.
More:
Obama will try and de-gun America as best as he can in the next 2 years….
It is no longer God save America …it is Allah SWT bless America.
………………………………….
Note that this Muslimah knows that “Allah” has *nothing* in common with God.
And Rezali Mehil, of course, believes that Allah’s “blessing ” of America–and of Britain–will be to turn them into violent Islamic crap holes like her native Pakistan, or perhaps the Islamic State.
Champ says
Graven, rezali’s comments keep getting more vicious toward you and your dear family. This latest ‘offering’ from her *really* takes the cake–all because rezali cannot take the unvarnished truth about her pedophile-prophet muhammad presented in your art work. Like most mohammedans, the ugly truth about muhammad is simply too hot for her to handle. It’s crazy that anyone would prefer a lie to the TRUTH, but that’s what rezali has chosen.
Champ says
rm wrote:
I see you are back …how is your Mother In Law….better now …or moved to the other side…seeing that she studied ancient Egyptian cultuer…she was almost Egyptian…..do you plan to have her mummified?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mummified? …how revolting and mean!
‘rezali mehil’ suggested that another person change his moniker because she thought it a more fitting description of this poster …
And I would like to suggest the same for ‘rezali’ …that she change her moniker to “Really Mean” or “Revolting Mohammedan”, since either choice is a much more fitting description of her.
gravenimage says
Thanks, Champ. Rezali Mehil is a nasty piece of work, all right–but a fairly standard Muslimah. If you look back through the archives here, it is striking how similar her ugly views are to those of the vicious Naseem.
She singles us out–you, me, Dumbledore’s Army, and Mirren most of all–because she knows we are strong Infidel women who oppose her and her vile, supremacist creed.
As always, I hope you and your family are well.
Western Canadian says
And once again, you go out of your way to show us all just how filthy, vicious and hate filled a truly devout muslim is. Vermin like you are members of the longest running crime ever committed against humanity: the crime of islam (RTC).
Newfie Templar says
And when every city’s urban centre is brimming with Muslims, what will he say then? You have a better chance of dying from a heart attack?
Davegreybeard says
Despite the hysterical claims of those who would disarm law abiding citizens, gun homicides in the U.S. are at a 30 year low, according to U.S. Department of Justice statistics. Look it up.
Concealed Carry permits in the U.S. are at an all time high – more guns in the hands of law abiding citizens. Look it up.
The ownership of firearms, per capita in the U.S. is also at an all time high. Google it.
The drop in violent crime in the U.S. coincides with both the increase in Concealed Carry Permits and the increase in gun ownership in the general population.
More guns less crime.
No Fear says
Terrorism is not the problem in the west. Sharia law is the problem. Once the muslim population gets to a certain level then it’s game over (dhimmitude) for the filthy kuffar.
Rezali Mehil says
By saying this line… you betray your handle …pussy
change your handle from No fear to Fear Much
More Later …
Rezali
Western Canadian says
The islamic RAving Moron is BAAAAACCTKK!! and going out of his/her way to prove that a devout muslim is unfit to live among human beings. People don’t ‘fear’ islam, as much as they hate it for the filthy, degenerate crime against humanity that it is.
gravenimage says
More crap from the vicious Rezali Mehil. No Fear isn’t saying he fears Muslims intent on imposing Shari’ah law, just noting–quite correctly–that this is the end goal of Jihad terrorism.
Rezali Mehil has, in fact, said many times that this is her objective, as well–just like every other pious Mohammedan.
Davegreybeard says
John R. Lott Jr.
Crime Prevention Research Center
John E Whitley
Crime Prevention Research Center; Institute for Defense Analyses
Rebekah C. Riley
Crime Prevention Research Center
July 13, 2015
Abstract:
Since President Obama’s election the number of concealed handgun permits has soared, growing from 4.6 million in 2007 to over 12.8 million this year. Among the findings in our report:
— The number of concealed handgun permits is increasing at an ever- increasing rate. Over the past year, 1.7 million additional new permits have been issued – a 15.4% increase in just one single year. This is the largest ever single-year increase in the number of concealed handgun permits.
— 5.2% of the total adult population has a permit.
— Five states now have more than 10% of their adult population with concealed handgun permits.
— In ten states, a permit is no longer required to carry in all or virtually all of the state. This is a major reason why legal carrying handguns is growing so much faster than the number of permits.
— Since 2007, permits for women has increased by 270% and for men by 156%.
— Some evidence suggests that permit holding by minorities is increasing more than twice as fast as for whites.
— Between 2007 and 2014, murder rates have fallen from 5.6 to 4.2 (preliminary estimates) per 100,000. This represents a 25% drop in the murder rate at the same time that the percentage of the adult population with permits soared by 156%. Overall violent crime also fell by 25 percent over that period of time.
— States with the largest increase in permits have seen the largest relative drops in murder rates.
— Concealed handgun permit holders are extremely law-abiding. In Florida and Texas, permit holders are convicted of misdemeanors or felonies at one-sixth the rate that police officers are convicted.
More guns in the hands of law abiding citizens, less crime.
Look it up.
No Fear says
I am Australian. Age 57.
Apart from a friend who is a farmer (she owns a rifle), I do not know anyone who owns a gun.
I have never needed one and I never thought to buy one.
Westman says
Ther are 3500+ unintentional drowning deaths each year in the US. Since this is much more than the number per year dying from terrorism, we should realize that swimming pools are a more dangerous and immediate problem than terrorism? Simply brilliant logic….
Of course, when the first long-lost cold war nuke from the old Soviet Union goes off in a major American city, those drownings become statistically insignificant.
The potential for destruction from terrorism is so much greater than the potential from gun violence. It is the potentialities that deserve the most consideration in determining national policy.
Lia Wissing says
Where does Mr Obama count terrorist attacks with firearms, like Fort Hood? As firearm deaths or as terrorist deaths?
JIMJFOX says
Compared to total gun-related deaths? A drop in the ocean.
Aton says
>>like Fort Hood?
Hey, that was ‘workplace violence’ – didn’t you read the post-normal era script?
/sarc
quotha raven says
To Lisa Wissing – Fort Hood was classified as a “workplace incident” and probably contributed to the “gun related deaths” stats Obama cites. Cheers! Quotha R
Roy C says
Many people seem to forget that the lunatic left used a similar argument in an attempt to downplay the carnage of 9/11 by saying that the same number of folks die each month in vehicle accidents. Of course the same twisted logic would also apply in comparing gun deaths to auto accidents but they find that argument somewhat less appealing and is it any wonder why? Obama will always take the low road on these issues and enough Americans agree to have twice elected this numbskull so chew on that one awhile. The center-right cannot concede control to our entire educational system, 95% of mainstream media and all of the entertainment industry and expect to prevail in the end. For the left the ends always justify the means and they play to win at any cost. Look what this president has done to race relations in America simply to gin up the back vote in ’16. The immorality of this aside – one has to appreciate the sheer will of the enemy to stop at nothing to gain power. We complain a lot – I’ll give our side that much.
JIMJFOX says
Speaking of logic, you need lessons.
Non-sequitur, red herring, or relevance?
Logical fallacies galore in your dopey argument.
john spielman says
jimfox; “DOPEY ARGUMENT” nope! just look at the violence inherent in muslim dominate societies. Shia murdering sunni and vise versa, bloody sharia law with homosexuals thrown from buildings stoning floggings beheadings etc -ISIS society Pakistani society. islamic violence is legendary
Westman says
JIMFOX,
It was intended to be dopey and ridiculously irrelevant to show that raw numbers have no meaning. But you don’t tend to read carefully.
Do you really think the consistency of gun violence poses a greater potential risk to the stability of the US than the potential violence of a nuclear bomb in a major city? Which potentiality will be historically remembered in numeric terms if it happens? Do you ever consider cost/benefit analysis, or, are you just frightened by raw numbers? If you were the ruler of the world, would your governing decisions be based on statistical measurements, reactive to individual events, or gut feelings?
Western Canadian says
Couldn’t be gut feelings…. He has no guts.
Don Foss says
Tell it to all the Muslims dying in Syria, Iraq, Somalia, Afganistan, Pakistan and almost every Islamic country, or those being thrown off buildings for being gay, having their heads cut off for aposticzing or being of the wrong sect or infidels, being stoned for out-of-marriage relationships, or being killed by their own fathers and brothers (who not being prosecuted for it) for offending Allah or shaming their family for intersect dating or refusing to marry an Islamist their father picked for them. Tell it to the Europeans while you’re at it, and Pamela Geller and Hersi Ali and Geert Wilders and hundreds of others liviing under the threat of death for simply quoting Allah himself in exposing the truth about Islam.
It’s the doctrine, ideology, laws and the Sunnah (life and teachings of Muhammed) you effing bird brain. Comparing the degrees of danger between Islamic terrorism and gun-toting Americans on an equal rubric is done only by moral cowards, Far Left Tools, and complete morons…and you’re all three.
Dr. Divinity says
The latest murders bring’s back gun control again.”Take guns away from the good guy’s and the only people who have guns are the bad guys”A no win situation for the good guys.”
Don kleim says
Amen. Well said.
Mark says
It’s a self fulfilling prophecy. Just class every terrorist attack as a disturbed individual whose motives are unclear and there will be more disturbed individuals than terrorist attacks.
Tom Evans says
Spot on Robert – my thoughts exactly. Obama is total denial – a complete shut-down of the truth.
harbidoll says
Me thinketh he does protect too much.
Angie Allan. says
Crocodile tears, he’s sticking his middle digit wrapped in smulch.
He wants to disarm the civilians, the terrorists might get hurt.
Anything to advance islam.
It was a set up.
duh_swami says
More drivel fro the stealth jihadists…Not even original…gun grabbers have claimed the same about lightning strikes and slips in the bath tub…it’s all anti-gun BS…
duh_swami says
Lets pretend that jihad violence is a minor problem…Rasool Obama most likely owns no guns but he is protected for life by agents that do have them…Hypocrite…
Barnaby says
You do yourselves no favours with stories like this. Obama is right, gun laws in the US are a huge problem. More people are killed from gun violence than terrorism. He’s not saying stop combatting terrorism, he’s saying you must also change your gun laws. This kind of story just makes you look like a bigot who hates Muslims rather than a defender of free speech and human rights…
duh_swami says
You and your stealth jihadist idol,, keep your filthy hands off my rights…More people are dead due to heart failure, car wrecks, tornado’s, lung cancer from tobacco, babies in abortion clinics, and falling bricks…
What is it you liberals don’t understand about, ‘shall not be infringed’?
JIMJFOX says
What is it you liberals don’t understand about, ‘shall not be infringed’?
What is it about you rednecks don’t understand about ‘well-regulated Militia?”
PS- I am NO liberal.
Rev g says
Nowhere does the 2a imply that the people are the well-regulated militia. That militia is well described under the powers of Congress, and was a possible threat to the people. Thus, the people’s right to oppose that threat.
duh_swami says
Jim…That’s already been decided by the courts not you…My rights are more imp0ortant than your thoughts…sorry that’s the way it is…
Angemon says
JIMJFOX posted:
“What is it you liberals don’t understand about, ‘shall not be infringed’?
What is it about you rednecks don’t understand about ‘well-regulated Militia?””
JIMJFOX says
A very disappointing article. I expect better from Robert Spencer
Concerned Canadian says
@JIMJFOX
“A very disappointing article. I expect better from Robert Spencer”
Well Jim I expect more from YOU.
You may not be a “liberal” but you throw out
the term “REDNECKS” ?!
Alarm bells are ringing dude.
Who are these REDNECKS you are speaking about ??????
Please share that with all the stupid people on here who
are eagerly waiting for your Ghandi like interpretation of world events.
I applaud Robert.
I am sure you do not being sooooooooooooooooooo wise.
Enjoy ISLAM.
And please debate anyone on here about that .
I need a laugh
Paul says
Spot on. I think the angry @JIMJFOX is deliberately overlooking
the broader context in which it’s clear that Obama shamelessly
instrumentalised yesterday’s terrible events to play down and
deflect from the global threat of terrorism, which his administration
has supported from day one.Gun control and ownership is a
separate debate, nothing to do with Obama’s sly subversion
and moral equivalency.
I can’t believe he wrote that about Robert Spencer. Maybe he should
take over Jihad Watch, he is the oracle after all!
ICH says
@Barnaby
“makes you look like a bigot who hates Muslims rather than a defender of free speech and human rights”
REALLY?!
You think its bigotry to worry about a race of people bent on killing you ?
I am not even American and I support the right to bear arms.
When the crap hits the fan….AND IT WILL….you will be glad someone has kahoonies
to protect you and your kind.
PRCS says
“a race of people”
Not a race! People of all Races and ethnicities who believe their ugly, written ideology demands–and gives them the right–to murder “unbelievers” in order to impose Islam upon all mankind and to continue doing so in territories they control in order to enforce that ideology.
Please don’t fall into the “race” trap.
Westman says
Barnaby,
Unfortunately, that is a cost that America must bear to remain free from the tyranny of elite government. You don’t actually think the War of Independence was fought with government issued guns?
It is not the typical gun owner who causes gun violence, it is the unhinged or criminal minded. I once thought just like you, “let’s get rid of guns”, until I realized, after observing for 50 years, that the Police cannot protect you from the majority of violence because it is rarely known in advance and they are too far away. The Police generally respond and investigate after a crime is committed.
You appear to be from one of the British “colonies”, or Britain itself; spelling favor as favour. If you are in Europe, your country is at far greater risk from Islamic Violence than the US for two reasons: proximity and a disarmed populace. We will be watching to see how Europe handles it. Extending the current observations forward, say 20 years, I see far more Islamic Violence in Europe’s future than in the US.
America will never give up private guns for personal protection, independent of any currently perceived threat. By the way, I don’t own a firearm but appreciate that my neighbor, who does, is close by.
I can agree that this story is redundant since American citizen’s insistence of remaining armed is not a result of the militant-religious ideology that must not be identified as violent by re-electable politicians.
Rev g says
Reporting methods tend to blur statistics to make comparisons invalid. In America, if 5 are shot by a criminal, it is 5 shooting incidents. In Britain it would be a single incident.
gravenimage says
Barnaby wrote:
This kind of story just makes you look like a bigot who hates Muslims rather than a defender of free speech and human rights…
…………………………….
Well, yes! What could be less indicative of defending free speech and human rights than defending the Constitution? Anyone who defends the Constitution must, perforce, “hate Muslims”…
underbed cat says
The news coverage of the tragic death of the two young reporters from WDBG in Virginia, has been totally strange from the first report to all the added reconfigurations of this live shooting and descriptions of the people involved. The immediate coverage immediately went to a “gun control” and “racist” incident, even to the point of acknowledgement by our top leader…/whatever. I find it very disturbing.
I thought I read that the furure “jihadists” are not suppose to leave clues or messages behind, a statement of their connection to their fatih…is the new m.o. one of fighting racism against the nasty people….sounded like first his provocation was hurt feelings and rage due to racism, that covers slander and and free speech, then a support group of gun control appears with a voice. Has anyone else seen such strange statements about this horrible event. ?? Even the relationships of the two young people killed came out with pictures then it was revealed the relationship was misstated. Strangest news event I ever witnessed of such a horrible event. Just curious.
Steph says
“The immediate coverage immediately went to a “gun control” and “racist” incident”
You have to remember the news media will expand a story and tag it with whatever gives them better ratings, keeping news (construction) up to the minute and changing the tag lines keeps people riveted to the chanel ….
ich says
@Steph…………very true 🙂
All I got out of this was Obama making a tragedy into a political message
Hes your worst president ever,.
What a tool
Jerry says
HBO is a Muslim supremacist and a Jihadi facilitator pretending to be a Christian who ought to be impeached, charged with treason and punished appropriately.
Shame upon the gullible fools who placed him as the Commander in (mis)Chief in the Offal Office.
Paul says
Err, that’s not strictly true is it?! I’d imagine the amount of people
butchered in Iraq and Syria at the hands of ISIS – backed by the
current administration, and in connivance with Erdogan to restore
the Ottoman Empire – significantly outnumbers the amount of victims
in domestic shootings. Not to mention the Obama backed Muslim
Brotherhood takeover of Egypt, during which Christians were being
CRUCIFIED, for goodness sake.
JIMJFOX says
Err, yes it is.
Err, you missed the part saying ‘Many more **in US** die from gun-related incidents…’
NOT anywhere else. Learn to read before blowing off at the mouth.
Paul says
Idiot, even what you say about gun-related incidents is true,
it doesn’t take away one bit about what I said about the
administration’s support for terrorists responsible for bloodshed
in the Middle East, or the fact that this tragic incident is being used
to play down that fact.
It’s you who needs to learn to read before blowing off at the mouth
and look at things individually.
Diana says
agree 100% with JimJFox but sadly as a voice of reason here re the true facts that guns related homicides are a major problem in the US (because they are a major problem and worse than the immediate islamist terror threat) he’s outnumbered here by some people who can’t or won’t see the truth of their president’s statement due to their prejudice.
No one is asking you to forsake the 2nd amendment or even to disarm yourselves – too late for that anyway – just asking you to consider the factual consequences of the existing situation. A bridge too far here it seems even tho’ this is supposed to be an anti-jihadi website discussing islam but sadly it has degenerated into a pro-gun forum.
rev g says
Don’t
rev g says
Jim Fox is an alarmist anti-gunner long on rhetoric and short on reason
So Diana, don’t hammer related homicides matter? More people are killed by them than guns. Cars too! How about knives, baseball bats, pointy sticks? Those weapons get a pass?
99.99% of the guns in the US were not used in a crime, let alone to murder someone.
Guns, like apples, cannot decide to harm you. Terrorists, or terror groups, like elephants, can decide to do you harm
Keep comparing apples and elephants.
Paul says
@Diana
In an ideal world guns wouldn’t be necessary. They’re there
to kill people after all. In an ideal world Western governments
also wouldn’t be deliberately flooding their countries with people
from an alien and hostile culture that unfortunately necessitate
weapons more than ever (maybe in the past there was a strong
argument against them). I wish that the editors of Charlie Hebdo
would have been armed when Muhammadan criminals stormed
their office.
That’s the unfortunate situation we find ourselves in today.
Western Canadian says
Diana, to call yourself a ‘voice of reason’, here or anywhere else, is laughable. Other countries, with very low murder and other crime rates have very high rates of gun ownership….
Take the dozen most violent cities in the US out of the equation…. and your murder rate plummets…… All these cities are run be democrat party machines. Compare the murder rates in Republican counties, compared to the same rates in Democrat counties….
You have a serious problem, but not with guns, but with a legal system that has become absolutely PATHETIC! Do you want to cut the US murder rate? The only way to accomplish that, is to rebuild and defend the family structure destroyed by government meddling…. with the primary victims being the black 13 percent of the US population.
Angemon says
Western Canadian posted:
“Take the dozen most violent cities in the US out of the equation…. and your murder rate plummets…… All these cities are run be democrat party machines. Compare the murder rates in Republican counties, compared to the same rates in Democrat counties…. ”
Indeed.
Paul says
I’m not getting into the rights and wrongs of gun ownership
in America. My broader point is the way in which yesterday’s
incident was used to sweep the terrorism and bloodshed in the
Middle East under the carpet, which the Obama administration
has aided and abetted at every turn.
duh_swami says
That’s exactly what the intention is…You’re right…
Wayne Gage says
Why would Obama compare the deaths from guns to the deaths from terrorism unless he is protecting his stance on terrorism. I can’t stand that useless pos.
JIMJFOX says
Because BOTH pose a danger to citizens of the USA, perhaps?
And no, I can’t stand him either, but unlike many here I value
facts and evidence over confirmation bias and distortions.
Diana says
Agree again JIMJFOX, well said!
voegelinian says
JIMFOX still hasn’t shown with an argument how the first comment by Westman —
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/08/obama-many-more-in-us-die-from-gun-related-incidents-than-from-terrorism/comment-page-2#comment-1286098
— is filled with logical fallacies including “non sequitur” and “red herring”.
JIMFOX merely deposits claims and assumptions like one turd after another, then moves on to his next bowel movement.
Angemon says
voegelinian posted:
“JIMFOX still hasn’t shown with an argument how the first comment by Westman —
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/08/obama-many-more-in-us-die-from-gun-related-incidents-than-from-terrorism/comment-page-2#comment-1286098
— is filled with logical fallacies including “non sequitur” and “red herring”.
JIMFOX merely deposits claims and assumptions like one turd after another, then moves on to his next bowel movement.”
This coming from a person who has, on dozens of occasions spread by as almost as many topics, claimed that what I say is “sophistry” without ever explaining why, despite my dozens of posts asking him for an explanation.
Dual-standards, thy name is Frank Hesp!
(cue in the ad-hominems, jabs at my mental health, etc. – you know, the voegelinian regular)
Western Canadian says
You have yet to in any way establish that you value facts and evidence, or would even recognize either if they bit you on your self satisfied posterior. Your comments about non-islamic religions, indicate you are merely a loud mouthed, ignorant bigot.
LSWCHP says
I’m an avid reader of this site, fully support Mr Spencer and despise Islam and most Muslims.
I also don’t think very much of Mr Obama and I own 12 firearms including 5 handguns. In this case though, regarding the numbers he’s absolutely correct.
Wikipedia claims via the Centre for Disease Control that there were 11208 homicides by firearms in the US in 2013.
There are a lot of dangerous idiots and nuts out there with guns and they kill a helluva lot more people each year than terrorists do in the US.
Rev g says
It is not a relevant comparison. More people die of heart disease, or cancer, or auto-related incidents than die from firearms.
Japan has few guns but an extremely high suicide rate. That does not imply that gun bans lead to high suicide rates. Obviously it is seafood/ rice diets that lead to high suicide rates. (sarc intended).
JIMJFOX says
What is not relevant is your introducing totally irrelevant data.
Next you’ll be arguing that more people die from natural causes.
Idiot.
Rev g says
Apparently you have no grasp of what relevance means.
Comparing the causes of death ( firearm, knife, cancer, heart disease) to a distinct entity or organization that uses multiple means to kill is completely irrelevant.
That we are less at risk of terror related slayings here via geography and a somewhat adept intelligence/investigation apparatus in place also factors into the equation.
Stop comparing apples to elephants.
Western Canadian says
The date he introduced is every bit as relevant as that brought to us by the thug in chief…. It merely shows how useless and dishonest obama and you both are on the subject….
JIMJFOX says
Well said. Truth, not pro- gun propaganda.
Western Canadian says
No fox with a glock, it is merely dishonest, anti-gun cherry picked and not in the least relevant data.
AcePL says
If, however, you will compare that to other countries it will become obvious that:
1. Per 100k citizens crime rate is not exceptional on any level, including violent.
2. Murder rate is also similar to other countries.
The only difference is that, yes, usa has disproportionately higher murder by firearm.
But this is requires deconstruction. Most of them happen in big cities, which account for very high percentage of total firearm murders. Of which has very anti-gun legislation (IOW: citizens are disarmed)
Where concealed- carry is not restricted crime rates are much lower, with violen crimes even more so.
And in places where owning a gun is a law requirement crime is order of magnitude lower than average.
UK police officially said that after banning private gun ownership they are losing fight with crime (of any kind). Instead of drop there is constant crime rate increase for two decades now…
voegelinian says
Have you guys noticed how the pro-Obama comments here are by nicknames never before seen, and are couched in “I’m not pro-Obama, but…” ?
The latest one, by “LSWCHP”, demonstrates a curious inability to detect the style of deception known as kitman… thus:
“I also don’t think very much of Mr Obama and I own 12 firearms including 5 handguns. In this case though, regarding the numbers he’s absolutely correct.”
Yes, Obama’s claim contains a truth: statistical numbers. That’s how kitman works — you construct a claim using a mixture of truth, half-truth, and lies, and you hope that the truth and half-truth distracts your dimwitted dhimmi audience just enough so they won’t notice the lies. In this case, the lie in the formula was adverted to by the comment by Westman above –
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/08/obama-many-more-in-us-die-from-gun-related-incidents-than-from-terrorism/comment-page-2#comment-1286098
Obama is ignoring certain qualitative aspects of Islamic terrorism, and forcing it into a strictly quantitative comparison with gun-related deaths. As Westman easily demonstrated, this same quantitative comparison could be made with swimming accident deaths, or even bathtub accidents, etc. (And how many times over the years have I seen PC MCs and Leftists make the same type of Obama kitman claim using “car accidents” in order to distract from and trivialize the problem of Islamic terrorism? Too many.)
Westman’s example nicely and easily shows the ridiculousness of the kitman claim. But Westman, unlike the Leftists, doesn’t leave it at a claim; he adduced the qualitative dimension of the problem of Islamic terrorism, which has many features:
1. The deadly potential for far worse, involving not only nuclear attack, but also any other type of WMD, including horrific chemical and/or biological toxins (not to mention other creative ways to inflict mass carnage we, who don’t spend thousands of hours obsessing about how to mass-murder, as jihadists do, haven’t yet imagined).
2. The nature of the enemy, which has many relevant features:
a. a degree of religious fanaticism astronomically more dangerous than any on the planet.
b. a fanaticism structured by a script of supremacism, xenophobia, hatred, and geopolitical expansionism.
c. a remarkable ability to network internationally, based in great part on the various degrees of collusion and co-dependent enablement they receive from countless millions of fellow co-religionists who may themselves not be not card-carrying “jihadists”. (notice how my 2c is a two-fer)
d. a remarkable ability to infiltrate and deceive using a Islamic taqiyya as deftly as Nazi and Communist spies used espionage – to potentially far greater advantage to their cause, due to our colossal naivete & gullibility, informed to a great extent by our Western anxiety to avoid “racism” and multicultural “bigotry” because our modern West has become dominantly PC MC and as such perceives Muslims to be “ethnic” and non-Western.
e. The alarming and disturbing alacrity with which jihadists and often Muslims in general perpetrate violence that exceeds “normal” violence, indeed indulging in violence only seen in the worst cases of the tiny minority of deranged psychopathic serial killers.
Still on 2e here: Just one example of Muslims in general doing this was noted by Jihad Watch contributor Hugh Fitzgerald years ago, citing the famous, cosmopolitan Italian journalist Oriana Fallaci, who was an eyewitness to an event of ghoulish violence enacted by a large crowd of Ordinary Muslims Who Just Wanna Have a Sandwich:
“To make you cry I’ll tell you about the twelve young impure men I saw executed at Dacca at the end of the Bangladesh war. They executed them on the field of Dacca stadium, with bayonet blows to the torso or abdomen, in the presence of twenty thousand faithful who applauded in the name of God from the bleachers. They thundered “Allah akbar, Allah akbar.–¦..After the twelve impure young men they killed a little boy who had thrown himself at the executioners to save his brother who had been condemned to death. They smashed his head with their combat boots. And if you don’t believe it, well, reread my report or the reports of the French and German journalists who, horrified as I was, were there with me. Or better: look at the photographs that one of them took. Anyway this isn’t even what I want to underline. It’s that, at the conclusion of the slaughter, the twenty thousand faithful (many of whom were women) left the bleachers and went down on the field. Not as a disorganized mob, no. In an orderly manner, with solemnity. They slowly formed a line and, again in the name of God, walked over the cadavers. All the while thundering Allah–akbar, Allah–akbar. They destroyed them like the Twin Towers of New York. They reduced them to a bleeding carpet of smashed bones.”
Thousands of examples of a wondrous diversity of horrific violence indulged in by Muslims abound (another being the culture of animal torture among Muslims, torturing stray dogs and cats for entertainment); and the Westerner cannot plead ignorance or laziness just because they haven’t taken the time and trouble to familiarize themselves with this unique problem that cannot, and should not, be compared with normative sociological violence (like “gun-related deaths”) that every society has.
And my list of 1-2(e) may still be incomplete, in adumbrating the qualitative features of Islamic violence that makes Obama’s kitman-claim ridiculous, if not cleverly reckless.
voegelinian says
Oh yes, I forgot yet another factor, which I’ll number as 2f:
Islamic violence is not a stable, static phenomenon but rather is metastasizing around the globe In a way, this was covered by my #1, but it touches on distinct features. (Even phenomena like “gun-related deaths” or “armed robberies” or “jealous husband homicides” etc. are by comparison stable and static, even if they wax and wane, they do so within a larger context of being normative social problems that every society has, and while they may seem to be going “out of control” they never escalate beyond certain limits. There is every indication that Islamic violence is getting extra-ordinarily worse over a long arc of time spanning a century, with historical roots that explain it going back further.)
Indeed, my 2(f) here has three distinct elements:
the metastasizing nature of Islamic violence
the global incidence & reach of Islamic violence
the long history of Islamic violence which materially & ideologically (and psychologically) informs Islamic violence
gravenimage says
All very true–the most salient point being that deaths at the hands of Jihad terrorists in the US is *not static*.
Before the first WTC bombing in 1993 virtually no Americans in America had died in a Jihad terror attack–but this phenomenon has been mushrooming ever since.
And in Europe and much of the rest of the world this is *much* worse. There is no reason to believe that figures here won’t rise, and rise sharply.
LSWCHP says
I’m well familiar with Islamic deception and the atrocities they commit. Nothing would please me more than for all muslims to disappear off the face of the planet this very minute.
I admire Mr Spencer enormously for his grest intellect, his excellent writing and most of all his courage in confronting the islamic threat every day.
But sometimes people make mistakes, and that’s what happened here. Regardless of all the waffle that has been posted here, Mr Spencer simply made an error of fact in this article. I’ve read almost every article that has been posted on this site since I found it two years ago, and this is the first mistake I’ve found. I truly believe that a man with Mr Spencer’s integrity and intellectual honesty would appreciate having errors of fact pointed out to him.
Furthermore, if we don’t correct errors of fact then we hand a gift to our islamist enemies. They will say “Look at this lie….everything they say is a lie….” and the uneducated will believe them.
We cannot base our opposition to the islamists on fallacies…if we do that we will only betray ourselves.
voegelinian says
Spencer’s “mistake” is a matter of interpretation. Spencer presented an argument (and I presented a more detailed argument along the same lines). Spencer’s argument (and mine) depends on qualitative factors. LSWCHP’s argument depends only on quantitative factors. Spencer’s argument is a counter-argument to the Obama/LSWCHP argument. Meanwhile, LSWCHP has not refuted Spencer’s argument (supplemented by mine in more detail); he has only repeated his initial argument as though he hasn’t even processed Spencer’s and my argument.
My argument was in two comments above, beginning at —
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/08/obama-many-more-in-us-die-from-gun-related-incidents-than-from-terrorism/comment-page-2#comment-1286293
gravenimage says
More Jews in Nazi Germany died in car accidents and slips in the bathtub than at the hands of antisemitic Fascists–until they didn’t…
Western Canadian says
Good one!!!!
JIMJFOX says
I’n no admirer of Obama but unfortunately he is correct. Even including 911.
Facts are as follows–
Gun violence in the United States results in thousands of deaths and thousands more injuries annually.[1] According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in 2013 firearms (excluding BB and pellet guns) caused 84,258 nonfatal injuries (26.65 per 100,000 U.S. citizens) [2] and 11,208 deaths by homicide (3.5 per 100,000),[3] 21,175 by suicide with a firearm,[4] 505 deaths due to accidental discharge of a firearm,[4] and 281 deaths due to firearms with “undetermined intent”[5] for a total of 33,169 deaths related to firearms.
So, over 33,000 deaths caused by firearms is many times more than terrorist attacks, even including 911. Much as gun supporters want to deny it, there’s no disputing the data.
Bezelel says
It’s not the data that’s being disputed. It’s the incomplete superficial use of a portion of it being used to make a political point and deflect the attention from the tragic loss of life caused by an insane gay black man killing peaceful unarmed white people in an unprovoked attack. This comes on the heels of louis farakan’s call to do just such a thing.Would you feel better if the murderer used something besides a firearm?
JIMJFOX says
Bullshit! The facts are at issue here- Obama’s statement is being called lies
when it is true. The rest of your statement is irrelevant and what I may or may
not feel is also irrelevant.
DiMu says
OBAMA’S STATEMENT IS A CHERRY-PICKED COMPARISON!
What is he saying? That less people die from Muslim-inspired violence than Politically Correct, racist hatred? Obama has done just about everything he can to promote racial division in the USA and masks it all under ‘gun control’, which is an entirely different debate.
There is NO difference between murder due to race and murder due to religion, whether the weapon is a gun or a grenade or an airplane into a building! They are equally abominable! WAKE UP!
Paul says
In the light of what’s happened, do you think it’s right that
the person who’s done so much to create an atmosphere of
racial divide in the first place should then go on to use this
and the issue of guns to make (islamic) terrorism look less
threatening – terrorism which he and his administration have
done so much to support? Nobody’s arguing with the figures
you present, but this is a classic example of leftist-islamist
rhetoric which is rapped in truths, half-truths and downright
lies hypocrisy and opportunism.
Bezelel says
@Bullshit AKA Fox, Like all the other commenters have pointed out your arguement is tissue thin. The truly sad part would be if you actually believe your own Bullshit. Don’t expect anyone here too.
JIMJFOX says
“It’s not the data that’s being disputed”
Every other person here does just that! Or hadn’t you noticed?
The rest of your post is irrelevant, as are my ‘feelings’.
WHY do you mention ‘insane gay black’ or ‘peaceful unarmed white’?
Casual racism or an appeal to emotions?
ICH says
@JIM
DUDE !!
Get off you soapbox.
You say ” Every other person here does just that! Or hadn’t you noticed?”
You have elected yourself head wise swami on this site.
Yet its YOU , repeat YOU who are calling people REDNECKS
You are so transparent .
You also called someone an IDIOT
What is that all about man ?
quotha raven says
to JimJFox, who sez “..Bullshit! The facts are at issue here- Obama’s statement is being called lies when it is true…”
Have you not heard of “lying with statistics”? Employing statistics to support an argument they do NOT, like comparing apples and elephants, is intellectually dishonest and facile, and it certainly has characteristics common to taqiyya and kitman, something you, Obama and leftists everywhere utilize with expertise, along with Islamists. Cheers! Quotha R
quotha raven says
To JimJFox, who sez “..Bullshit! The facts are at issue here- Obama’s statement is being called lies when it is true…”
Have you not heard of “lying with statistics”? Employing statistics to support an argument they do NOT, like comparing apples and elephants, is intellectually dishonest and facile, and it certainly has characteristics common to taqiyya and kitman, something you, Obama, leftists everywhere and Islamists utilize with expertise. Cheers! Quotha R
Bezelel says
@ fox “WHY do you mention ‘insane gay black’ or ‘peaceful unarmed white’?
Casual racism or an appeal to emotions?”
Sorry I didn’t see the post until now. Those are facts. Dispute them if you will but they remain facts.
voegelinian says
Yes, Bezelel adverts to the kitman aspect of JIMFOX’s argument. The style of deception known as kitman involves a claim constructed of a tissue of truths, half-truths, and lies, all mixed together for a nice, warm, tasty soup calculated to go down easy for the lazy recipient.
Only Muslims and Leftists indulge in kitman so much. Which one is JIMFOX…?
voegelinian says
I meant to add that kitman is also constructed by telling the truth part of a phenomenon, while also omitting another truth part of that phenomenon.
Paul says
@Voegelinian,
Just spotted what you said about “truths, half-truths and lies…”.
It must look like I was just copying (above) what you said – I wasn’t!
I remember “son of Hamas” Mosab Hassan Yousef talking about
that in a blog a while ago. I quite often use that because he was
of course absolutely correct. I just hope there are many more out
there that understand this subtle form of deception.
wildjew says
JIMJFOX, my guess is you know most conservatives believe gun violence is a law-enforcement issue. To many of us, Barack Obama is a scofflaw. He doesn’t care about enforcing the law.
harbidoll says
People are calling for a race war., & ALL that entails. (martial law). That doesn’t get your attention?
John Magne Trane says
This is just inane. And it’s not only Obama. Pinker’s recent book also had like: 911 wasn’t bad. Only 3000. More die due to complications during surgery each year.
Logic is, you have the choice of a life saving operation, or to stroll over to the gang of terrorists over there. go to the terrorists.
If only the Pinkers and Obamas would heed their own advice…
quotha raven says
To John Magne Trane, who sez “If only the Pinkers and Obamas would heed their own advice…”
Obama is far too bizzy keepin’ his promises to fundamentally change America. I’d say he’s right on schedule.
Cheers!
Quotha R
David says
The reason is there are more guns than terrorists! That statement is one of the stupid regurgitations. Shows him up as the stupid person he is. He is trying to downplay the Muslim terrorists and screw Americans.
wildjew says
“Obama’s silence on Kathryn Steinle killing is deafening”
By Marc A. Thiessen July 13
quotha raven says
To Wildjew – “Obama’s silence on Kathryn Steinle killing is deafening”
Don’t you think that one went immediately into the “gun-related violence” classification/stats? I do.
Cheers! Quotha R
Manual Paleologos says
Many of these gun and beating incidents are terrorism committed by the Democrats. It is part of their campaign of violence against the United States. This latest mope was just a Lone Wolf Democrat Terrorist. They intend to use violence to panic the American People into accepting their totalitarian government.
Don Foss says
Only about 17 more months of this moron.
G179 says
And I thought he believed in “whoever kills a soul, it is as if he had slain mankind entirely”..
kay says
Looks like President Obama is several weeks behind the real domestic news on the issues of gun violence and domestic terrorism.
The Nation of Islam is a real threat. Imam Farrakhan is calling for mass insurrection and warfare against “a 400 year old enemy”. He is explicitly calling for suicide-murder attacks in the name of the Quran, Sharia and jihad. See
http://www.faithfreedom.org/muslim-leader-imam-farrakhan-calls-on-10000-muslims-in-the-u-s-to-rise-up-and-kill/
Muslim Leader Imam Farrakhan Calls on 10,000 Muslims in the U.S. to Rise Up and Kill by Editors · August 5, 2015
Farrakhan stated: ‘..the qur’an teaches us that retaliation is prescribed..’
by, Pam Key | Breitbart | Glen Roberts @ Trop
Last week in Miami at Mt. Zion Baptist Church, Nation of Islam head Louis Farrakhan said he was looking for “10,000 fearless men” to “rise up and kill those who kill us; stalk them and kill them and let them feel the pain of death that we are feeling!”
Farrakhan said “I’m looking for 10,000 in the midst of a million. Ten thousand fearless men who say death is sweeter than continued life under tyranny. Death is sweeter than continuing to live and bury our children while the white folks give our killers hamburgers. Death is sweeter than watching us slaughter each other to the joy of a 400-year-old enemy. Death is sweeter. The Quran teaches persecution is worse than slaughter. Then it says retaliation is prescribed in matters of the slain. Retaliation is a prescription from God to calm the breasts of those whose children have been slain. So if the federal government won’t intercede in our affairs, then we must rise up and kill those who kill us; stalk them and kill them and let them feel the pain of death that we are feeling!”
LOUIS FARRAKHAN A U.S. Race War is About to Explode. Get Your People Prepared
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2IKIpJVUA4
Re ( at 2 minutes ) “You want to lead them to the enemy that God has come to separate them from.”
“Mohammed is Allah’s apostle. Those who follow him are harsh to the unbelievers but merciful to one another”
— Quran 48:29
164 Jihad Verses in the Koran
Compiled by Yoel Natan
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Themes/jihad_passages.html
Omar Ahmad, Co-Founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), The National Council of Canadian Muslims (NCCM) in Canada, formerly known as (CAIR-CAN) said “Islam ISN’T in North America to be equal to ANY other faiths, but to become DOMINANT. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the HIGHEST AUTHORITY in North America, and Islam the ONLY accepted religion on Earth.”
“Fighting for freedom, fighting for Islam, that is not suicide,” … “They kill themselves for Islam.” (Omar Ahmad Praising Suicide Bombers)
Ralph Statum says
You are a Lying Black Muslim President and you follow a false prophet and worship a moon god allah and you will burn in HELL…
richard courtemanche says
So. is that supposed to make people feel better? Does Obama think that he has room to inflate immigration with more extremists? Mr President, you’re part of the problem.
Vince says
Obnoxious semantics and misdirection. If “Terrorism” were simply a term to encapsulate overt bombs in streets, as measured in purely “tangible explosions”, we’d have missed 99% of the problem vis-à-vis flawed premise! Terrorism, imho, is just a buzzword for Westerners to describe a tangible activity of certain strange people from another part of the world – ex, Arabs with head garb blowing things up. What silliness! Rather, terrorism is synonymous with the component of the Islamic ideology that preaches (and has always historically preached and practiced) forced proselytization by tip-of-sword. If such “terrorism” has yet to manifest as street bomb crescendo across US cities, does said terrorism exist any less? It is not something which simply materializes and appears, like a mystic phantasm. Instead, of course, it requires years-long planning, infiltration, funding, metastasis, matriculation, and all other manner of space-time-relevant preparations. It exists whether or not Americans admit to its presence, or understand its means and modes. It will just as soon conquer your academics and politics stealthily as cut off heads by the shore.
Soooo, to measure “terrorism” in terms of dead bodies in a certain geographical area is either one of the most dense observations imaginable, or a purposeful, insidious wordplay to fool the lemmings and kick the can down the road. It only “makes sense” through a diabolical lens.
Vince says
Of course, despite all rhetoric and reply, those who haven’t been bitten by a zombie understand clearly that this is just more fodder for the Administrations gun control ploy.
Davegreybeard says
Jim Fox is not only an idiot, he is a world class hypocrite! See his post from Aug 14 on “Islamic State posts Australian hit list…”
@ JIM FOX
“You can join a gun club- it’s easy. Train on a range, learn to shoot various weapons
that are legal in Australia. After 6 months and a police clearance certificate you can buy a gun of your choice. Then at least you will feel more secure.
I did this and enjoyed the learning process. The 9mm Glock is a nice piece but the 357 Magnum is far too big/heavy!!”
So while “Fox wit da Glock” talks up gun control for everyone else, he’s got one of his own just so he can “feel more secure.” Now isn’t he special!
What has not been addressed is my earlier post regarding the DECLINE OF GUN VIOLENCE in the U.S. concurrent with the INCREASE IN CARRY PERMITS AND THE INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF GUNS IN THE GENERAL POPULATION.
MORE GUNS, LESS CRIME – IT’S A FACT.
Davegreybeard, proud to be a Redneck American.
gravenimage says
Good point, Dave. I had forgotten that post from JIMJFOX.
Champ says
“What we know is that the number of people who die from gun-related incidents around this country dwarfs any deaths that happen through terrorism,” the president added.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Is obama referring to terrorism within the U.S., or terrorism worldwide? I take his comment to mean worldwide, which makes his comparison patently false.
That said, obama has been aiming for gun control for a long time now, and to compare gun-related incidents to terrorism is a cheap shot, and it demonstrates just how low obama will go to make a point and further his agenda for even more gun control.
Champ says
Interesting and very telling how–once again–obama uses a tragedy like this to promote gun control AND to *primarily* minimize terrorism. In fact, I think his sole purpose in making this statement was to downplay terrorism and to support his mohammedan ‘friends’.
obama just as easily could have expressed his sorrow, etc, to make his point without mentioning “terrorism” at all.
Here we have more brazen support for jihadists from obama: dictator-in-chief!
Davegreybeard says
It is also interesting how “Fox wit da Glock” and his mindless cheerleader Diana love to talk about the “facts” of gun control as long as they can cherry pick the data and twist themselves into pretzels to “prove” some illogical point.
Let’s talk about a fact not in dispute, namely:
The Jihadist terror threat is increasing and will continue to increase for the foreseeable future.
We all agree on this, do we not?
Then would you also agree that an armed population, such as in the U.S. is much more difficult to “terrorize” than an unarmed population, such as in Australia?
“Fox wit da Glock” certainly agrees, as he admits that he “feels more secure” having a firearm. How about you Diana? Would you rather have a firearm when the Jihadis come to cut your throat, or do you “feel secure” in your ability to use “dialogue?”
So why the antigun hysteria from these two, in the face of the Jihad that we all agree is coming? Why would they seek to disarm other innocents who merely seek to keep the means to defend themselves and their families?
Sour grapes?
Holdover, mindless reflex from the Liberal hives that they undoubtedly have come from?
Fear of guns? This might be the case with Diana, but certainly not “Fox wit da Glock.”
‘Tis a mystery for sure.
Harry_the_Horrible says
Apparently our Glorious and Beloved Leader can not tell the difference between Terrorists – individuals make a decision to harm others – and firearms – which are inanimate tools incapable of acting on their own.
In every one one of those “firearm incidents” is a shooter who is responsible for it.
But that doesn’t fit The Narrative.
Kepha says
Just as he misunderstood the Peeeeeeeeeeceful, toooooooooolerant, and luvving nature of his religion, Ayyoub El Khazzani apparently didn’t get the message that Yurruppe has tough gun laws designed to keep firearms out of the hands of people like him. So, how did he get his hands on an AK? [sarc]
quotha raven says
To Kepha – I believe he sez he “found it under a bush” or words (in French, of course) to that effect. That’s his story, and he’s sticking to it! Cheers! Quotha
p.s. As this is so similar to the way the guy in San Francisco explains how he acquired HIS weapon (he found it on a bench, as I recall.) I’m suspicious that both guys, the Moroccan and the guy in SF consulted the same Internet Iman or read the same terrorists’ instruction blog for instructions how to repond to interrogators when they inevitably ask “Where did you get the gun(s)?”
gravenimage says
Yeah–I find automatic weapons in the bushes and under benches *all the time*. People are *so* careless! sarc/off
More Ham Ed says
I was going to say something about 27,000 or so worldwide ISLAMIC TERROR ATTACKS since 2001, in other words about a 10,000 to 1 ratio compared to any other set of beliefs:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
(my fav. site for clearing up the islamic smoke and mirrors 2nd only to JW).
cclin says
Grimly, laughable, They’re laughing at us… laughing at their victims… silly deluded victims. Among those laughing at us… are those appointed to protect us who tell us that these murderers have nothing to do with Islam… laughing at poor deluded victims who believe them.
Read some of our history… about the days when Catholics slaughtered Protestants r… and vice versa. Did we have political leaders and protectors who swore that the slaughter had nothing to do with Catholics and Protestants?
kay says
Re: “Read some of our history… about the days when Catholics slaughtered Protestants… and vice versa. Did we have political leaders and protectors who swore that the slaughter had nothing to do with Catholics and Protestants?”
Excellent point. Thirty Years War. Hundred Years War. That is why the American Revolution emphasized separation of Church(es) and State. The bloodshed in Europe was incredible. Religious wars went on for decades. The Spanish sent their huge fleet up the English Channel to burn London to the ground. That was their idea of supporting the Vatican.
Most Americans have no idea about this. But there were many religious wars in Europe. One of the crusades was against pagans in Eastern Europe. The history of religious politics is beyond horrific. And that’s not even counting South Asia and the India / Pakistan split.
quotha raven says
To Kay – Your point is very well made and well taken. Cheers! Quotha R
kay says
🙂 to Quotha
The point is that religion and politics don’t mix. Religion is about conviction. Politics is negotiation. Two different things. Louis Farrakhan is a real danger. He does divisive race-religion-demagoguery power-tripping politics. As shown in this thread above.
We need to build a social discourse which works for every decent person and defends society, not a discourse based on religious texts and Kalashnikov rifles and subjugation of nonbelievers. Let ink flow, not blood.
“Laicite'( secularism ) is really to refuse that we are living in a society where the law, the justice, of course the state is inspired by religious rules instead of human law. . .” from
Author Caroline Fourest on Secularism against Fanaticism (Secular Conference) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_BUjpqIgp8
This is the fulcrum of the debate.
There is only one choice for people, whether as individuals or as societies. It is Laicite’ or Theocracy.
Western Canadian says
Since most wars not involving mustlims are not religious in nature (as hard as that may be to the bigots among us), but are rather due to governments and rulers seeking ever more power and subjects…… Atheists have killed in a single century the same number that it took muslims on average 5 centuries to kill….
Does this mean that atheism should be banned from influencing government? I wouldn’t think so.
Western Canadian says
“The point is that religion and politics don’t mix. Religion is about conviction. Politics is negotiation. Two different things.”
Even if I didn’t have years of poli-sci, and hadn’t been studying the history of warfare for more decades than I would admit to…… I would still have busted a gut laughing at this utter and complete load of ignorant bloody drivel!!!
Which religion is about conviction?? Not true for Buddhism, and very much true for atheism…. islam (RTC) is about FASCISM, which has also been a political control system…. in fact, islam (RTC) is not a religion, is is JUST a criminal political system… Politics is about power, and control of people…. to suggest that it is pure ‘negotiation’ is utter nonsense: the people don’t have much input into what is being ‘negotiated’, or in what direction and by whom.
The political systems that have grown on the basis of islam (RTC), are hellholes unfit for human habitation. Those that have grown on the basis of Judaeo/Christian belief, have been (for all their flaws), the most just, free and prosperous in human history.
“This is the fulcrum of the debate.
There is only one choice for people, whether as individuals or as societies. It is Laicite’ or Theocracy.”
This is utter and complete drivel and an invalid either/or.
quotha raven says
To Western Canadian, who sez “…… I would still have busted a gut laughing at this utter and complete load of ignorant bloody drivel!!! Which religion is about conviction?? Not true for Buddhism, and very much true for atheism…”
I hope your comment above is meant for Kay, not me, because it is her expanded comments you quote, after I responded that I found an earlier comment of hers (insofar as I understood it) “well made and well taken”.
Had I replied to Kay’s expanded version of what she was saying, although I might not have jumped on the opportunity to be condescending and rude, as you have done, my response would have argued some of what you have, above.
If you’ve been reading JW comments for a while,WC, you’d see that I repeatedly insist that Islam is not “a religion” although it includes religious elements, and it cannot be equated or indeed compared (apples and elephants) with other major religions of the world, any more than a mosque is like a church, only “with different architecture and customs,” as I like to say. Mosques embody the fascist politic of Islam (as you point out, WC) as presented in the Qur’an, the hadiths and the sura (sp?)
Islam is a theocracy, and I’ve often stressed that one has to understand what a theocracy is, in order to understand how Islam, through sharia, jihad of all kinds and numerous variants of taqiyya) operates and how dangerous it is and how completely inimical with our Constitution. One cannot claim to be a muslim and support the US Constitution.
“The point is that religion and politics don’t mix. Religion is about conviction. Politics is negotiation. Two different things,” sez Kay.
What is she talking about? I find this assertion simplistic and wrong, unless by “conviction” she means “leap of faith”, I would scarcely know where to begin to respond to it, Had I made the effort, however, I might have started with the US Constitution and the founding fathers, and I might have ended, pages later, by touching upon the very powerful Christian lobby that must today inform every US candidate’s campaign for national office if he or she hopes to succeed in winning that office.
While I am not a religious person, I embrace and support Christian values and the Judeo-Christian ethic that is the foundation of our Constitution, our legal system and our society, at least until the last few decades, when our traditional values have been so significantly eroded that I now insist that we live in “post-Constitutional USA.” Nonetheless, I am in varying degrees dismayed by the issues the Christian lobby brings to national politics, because my priorities differ, sometimes vastly, from those of that lobby, which in many cases dominates national debate. I believe this allows the radical Left to sweep under the rug many issues I consider far more important and pressing.
It is profoundly important to our freedoms and liberty to distinguish secular law from the religious agenda of any religion. Just take a look at Turkey and where they are now, having regressed and reverted to a pre-Ataturk non-secular government.
This distinction is a critical element that makes us NOT a theocracy, like Islam. That said, I am tolerant of manger scenes at Christmas on the city hall lawn, and seeing the ten commandments in or on a courthouse wall and Christmas trees all over the place. These do not offend me, because our system of law and government rest on Judeo-Christian values. Perhaps this leaves me open to criticism of being inconsistent or intellectually dishonest, but so be it. Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds, as they say.
Your points, WC, would be more effectively made if you were to keep a civil tongue in your head. Cheers! Quotha R
Western Canadian says
“the very powerful Christian lobby that must today inform every US candidate’s campaign for national office if he or she hopes to succeed in winning that office.”
In a bygone era yes, currently?? Not really.
And yes, the reply was to she. No reply option given in her post.
As for civil tongues, I feel no need to speak gently to a poorly educated buffoon who fails to grasp even basic concepts, and still feels the right to tell everyone else how to live. Whether they be muslim, or otherwise.
karpenter says
I Would Imagine Being Shot To Death To Be Rather Terrifying….
rev g says
Beheaded with a knife seems worse to me.
Hans says
Obama u are a moron
mairbair says
the true morons are the irrepsonsible idiots that put him in office twice. and the schools teaching the destuctive lies about how America is the worst place in the world etc. its called progressive thought people and has taken our country down a road to destuction. thanks alot you morons!
Arthur says
It’s my understanding that terrorists have changed tactics in Israel as gun ownership became more widespread. Terrorists stopped killing people with knives and guns and moved to car bombs, for the obvious reason that an armed citizen could stop an attack with a knife or gun but not a bomb. As terrorist attacks increased this year, Israel loosened its gun ownership laws.
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Israel-eases-gun-control-rules-after-Jerusalem-terror-attack-382344
So, restriction of gun ownership works in favor of jihadist attacks. This seems very consistent with Obama’s other policy decisions in regard to Islam and jihad in the U.S.
This is not a forum intended for gun control debates, but a few facts relating to guns in the US might be enlightening for some JW readers:
– In 1997 an estimate was that up to about 1.5 million times annually, guns are used in self-defense. This estimate is not an aberration, but is consistent across multiple surveys.
Philip J. Cook and Jens Ludwig, “Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms,” NIJ Research in Brief (May 1997)
– In states which passed concealed carry laws, on average murder rates dropped by 8.5%, rape by 5%, aggravated assault by 7%, and robbery by 3%. (Keep in mind, only a small proportion of citizens actually get carry permits, so most likely this represents increased fear and reluctance in criminals).
John R. Lott, Jr., “More Guns, Less Violent Crime,” The Wall Street Journal (28 August 1996)
Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, “Confirming ‘More Guns, Less Crime,’” Stanford Law Review (April 16, 2003), vol. 55:1313
– Waiting periods and background checks for gun purchase do not reduce homicide or suicide rates
Jens Ludwig and Philip J. Cook, “Homicide and Suicide Rates Associated With Implementation of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act,” Journal of the American Medical Association, vol. 284, no. 5 (August 2, 2000)
– Gun control does not reduce crime.
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, “First Reports Evaluating the Effectiveness of Strategies for Preventing Violence: Early Childhood Home Visitation and Firearms Laws,” Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (October 3, 2003), vol. 52(No. RR-14):14-18.
– Handgun crime in the UK rose 40% in the two years after the gun ban of 1997
“Handgun crime ‘up’ despite ban,” BBC News Online (July 16, 2001) at http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/uk/newsid_1440000/1440764.stm
– A year 2000 report shows that the crime rate in England is higher than the USA
John van Kesteren, Pat Mayhew and Paul Nieuwbeerta, “Criminal Victimisation in Seventeen Industrialised Courtries: Key findings from the 2000 International Crime Victims Survey,” (2000).
– In a 2002 survey, 73% of the American public believe the US Constitution’s Second Amendment protects the rights of individuals to own guns.
Daniel Merkle, “America: It’s Our Right to Bear Arms,” ABCNews.com (May 14, 2002)
http://a.abcnews.com/sections/us/DailyNews/guns_poll020514.html
For more facts see:
http://www.gunowners.org/fs0404.htm
*A lot of the links to articles seem to have been broken over time, but you can search the proper citation in Google to find many of the articles*
Davegreybeard says
Thanks for the backup, Arthur.
Keep those facts a figures handy the next time “Fox wit da Glock,” Diana or others of their confused, gun grabbing ilk show up.
ICH says
“non sequitur” and “red herring”……..gotta love it
I wonder how many more big words we can cone up with?!
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
I copied and pasted for you JimFox
quotha raven says
Zu Ich –
antidisestablishmentarianism?
Cheers! Quotha R
mohamed says
oui.liberté et la droit de homme dans pays arabe.
maintenat tout les mouche de cette monde conter liberté et droit de homme arabic. oui tout les voleures conter la vunér de popeles arabe et aussi fricain. la gurre americain et eroupa et russia les voleures. tout conter musilmment et conter la lois et la droit de homme.
les musilmment pas slaves et ils mort acausse liberté et la loi . et je souhaite barack et tout les mouche pour ils na pas dorme ?attack atack les musilmment.