“All the Islamic institutions agree that Daesh is a non-Muslim group,” says Görmez, but that just yet again begs the question: why does this “non-Muslim group” have such appeal among Muslims that thousands of them from all over the world have traveled to Syria, Iraq and Libya to join it? And if Islam never orders a jihad which approves of bloodshed, what about the Battle of Badr, the Battle of Uhud, and all the other battles that Islamic tradition says Muhammad participated in? Were they not jihads? What about the Qur’an’s directive to fight against Jews and Christians until they “pay the jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued” (Qur’an 9:29)? Are jihadis supposed to act like some collective Linda Sarsour and browbeat the non-Muslims into submission? Or is it just remotely possible that Mehmet Görmez is being disingenuous?
“Daesh has done ‘the most damage’ to Islam,” by Drew Parker, NewsFultonCounty.com, August 9, 2015:
ANKARA – Turkey’s head of religious affairs has spoken to Anadolu Agency about a new report his directorate has issued on the Daesh militant group.
Mehmet Gormez, speaking on Saturday, said the new research was aimed at informing the public about Daesh’s tactics, slogans, operations and interpretation of Islam.
The report is highly critical of the organization, denouncing its actions, saying: “All the deeds of this anomalous armed group which is targeting non-Muslims and the rules of Islam is terrorism.”
Turkey’s Religious Affairs Directorate has described Daesh’s “twisted” portrayal of Islam and its holy book, the Quran, to further its violent agenda in the Middle East.
Gormez said: “We are the first religious institution to draw attention for the Daesh threat.”
Calling all Islamic scholars and institutions to stand against Daesh, Gormez added: “The Islamic world should focus on nothing but this group who uses Islam as a tool [but] ignores Islamic methodology and principles.”
“When did jihad – meaning an end to oppression and corruption – turn into a term for a vulgar culture? Islam never orders a jihad which approves of bloodshed,” Gormez said.
The report says that it is Daesh which has done the most damage to Islam.
“All the Islamic institutions agree that Daesh is a non-Muslim group. They have done so much damage that a Muslim living in Australia is denounced as a terrorist by his own neighbor,” Gormez said.
john spielman says
Dear Gormez; if “islam never orders a jihad which approves of blood shed”, then 1) muhammed pbuh* was NOT a muslim and islam is NOT islam! OR 2) YOU’RE LYING THOUGH YOUR TEETH!
pbuh* -PERPETUAL BANISHMENT UNTO HELL
Jaladhi says
Oh, I get it, its holy war which approves of blood shed. We have got it all wrong and are blaming jihad and jihadis!! LOL….
mortimer says
Mehmet Gormez supports STEALTH JIHAD, because military jihad is causing the dirty kafirs to become aware of Islamic teaching.
Taqiyya is practiced by Sunni Muslims like Mehmet Gormez, but Sunni theologians call it MUDA’RAT.
There is no evidence to support his claim that “All the Islamic institutions agree that Daesh is a non-Muslim group.”
No doubt, the only reason Turkey is objecting to ISIS now is that ISIS is affecting Turkey’s balance of trade.
john spielman says
so Gormez is a MUD RAT
Westman says
Don’t forget TAWRIYA which is very useful for doublethink/doublespeak.
voegelinian says
The most reasonable, sober principle we can adopt is this:
Concerning their Islam, unless they say they want to kill and/or subjugate us, all Muslims lie.
Jaladhi says
So those 300 million or more non-Muslims killed by Islamic jihad were not killed by Islamic jihad because Islam doesn’t approve jihad with bloodshed. Hmm .. what sort of circular logic is this – oh, I guess theis is Islamic logic! Moron!
Or the blood of non-Muslims is not really blood, its just plain red colored water so the jihad is justified. The more these Muslims talk the more they show their stupidity!!
Georg says
You’ve got it. It’s the Muslim iteration of the ‘No true Scotsman’ fallacy. Only commendable deeds can be Islamic according to these supremacists.
“We are the first religious institution to draw attention for the Daesh threat.” Well, gee, just in time! How noble.
M S case says
Maybe the rat dung eating clerics haven’t read the real Koran.They have been reading one of those fake korans isis puts out to entice converts., with all that goody, goody stuff in it
voegelinian says
“So those 300 million or more non-Muslims killed by Islamic jihad were not killed by Islamic jihad…”
Correction: Those 300 million were killed by Muslims putting Islamic jihad into practice. An idea or principle or tenet (like “Islamic jihad”) can’t kill a fly, until a human agent puts it into practice.
Guns don’t kill people, Muslims do.
mortimer says
Islamic history has nothing to do with Islam! That’s what Mehmet Gormez is telling us.
But, who gave Mehmet Gormez the right to condemn the last 1400 years of Islamic history? The invasions, the enslavements, the piracy, hills of human skulls, the genocides? All of it was WRONG, WRONG!
Nothing in Islamic history had anything to do with Islam.
But this NEW IMPROVED ISLAM of Mehmet Gormez requires an explanation! Where did the GOLDEN-RULE ISLAM come from? It did not come from Koran 48.29.
Have the 164 jihad verses and hundreds of hadiths been abrogated by Mehmet Gormez ?
duh_swami says
If you took out all the wart and punishment verses in Quran, you would end up with maybe 10 pages of jibberish…
john spielman says
YES not just any jibberish BUT EVIL JIBBERISH
Angemon says
“Yes, yes, jihad has nothing to do with shedding blood. Just trust me on this one, no need to check islamic sources. I said trust me, put that book down. No, no, don’t open it, no… oh, s***!”
Georg says
LOL!
Jack Diamond says
“When did jihad – meaning an end to oppression and corruption {toward Muslims} – turn into a term for a vulgar culture? Islam never orders a jihad which approves of bloodshed” {toward Muslims, or he means Islam first gives the offer to embrace Islam to avoid bloodshed…rejection of the offer puts the blame for bloodshed on the kuffar. Regardless of the tortured “logic” qital–kill, slaughter, massacre– the term translated as “fight” in jihad verses 9:5 and 9:29 kinda speaks for itself.
Jack Diamond says
“All the Islamic institutions agree that Daesh is a non-Muslim group”… “Turkey’s Religious Affairs Directorate has described Daesh’s “twisted” portrayal of Islam and its holy book, the Quran.”
The Directorate has pronounced takfir on such apostates as Daesh and “all Islamic institutions” have?
Oh, they haven’t, why not? And given clear Islamic reasons why these devout jihadis bringing full shari’a are murtad and will promptly face the proper fate of apostates? (Like Faraj Foda or Mohammad Taha?). Yep, the righteous anger of the entire Islamic World for the satanic twisting of their religion and all the bad press in Australia, will eradicate this scourge toute suite…
Naw, they’re just kidding around again.
mortimer says
No shedding of blood in jihad? Really? How about the Saudi-published version of the Koran?
(Following quote from Footnote to Koran 2:190 of ‘King Fahd Complex translation’ of Koran)
“Jihad is holy fighting in Allah’s Cause with full force of numbers and weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah’s Word is made superior (which means only Allah has the right to be worshiped), and Islam is propagated. By abandoning Jihad (may Allah protect us from that) Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position; their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape from this duty, or does not in his innermost heart wish to fulfill this duty, dies as a hypocrite.”
‘Full force of weaponry’ sounds violent!
Görmez is apparently lying.
RuleOfLove says
Mortimer, you are AMAZING!
Westman says
Quran Muhsin Khan (9:36):
“… fight against the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) collectively, as they fight against you collectively…”
Stephanie says
SLAYer#1′SS root cause for jihad 9:111 “SLAY … achievement SUPREME.”
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
Turkey’s Religious Affairs Directorate has described Daesh’s “twisted” portrayal of Islam and its holy book, the Quran, to further its violent agenda in the Middle East.
The public acceptance of easily knowable bald-faced lies leaves us vulnerable to Moslems. We have a president here in the States who by now is a known liar to any adult with a working mind, yet about half of us support him.
Acceptance of lies and liars doesn’t work with politics, it leads to acrimony and decline; but unless you accept chattel slavery without free thought, it is inevitably fatal with Moslems
Westman says
This is an example of MURUNA, a selective forgetting weirdly justified by Quran Surah 2:106, “If we abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten, We will replace it by a better one or similar.” So one uses a quote like Surah 5:32 “..whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land – it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. ” to the infidel while knowing full well it was directed to Jews and abrogated by the 9th Surah(9:29) of the Quran. But it is not a lie because one is stating something that is truly in the Quran while omitting(kitman) less useful verses such as Surah(5:33) “..Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. .”
So, with the usefulness of Muruna, Mehmet Görmez may selectively “forget” the “Battle of Badr, the Battle of Uhud, and all the other battles that Islamic tradition says Muhammad participated in” and instead claim that Islamic doctrine is peaceful and those nasty Daesh have nothing to do with Islam.
“..Islam never orders a jihad which approves of bloodshed” Since there is no central authority in Islam, 4 schools of jurisprudence, and groups busy killing and threatening in the name of Islam all over the planet, the phrase “Islam never” is totally meaningless. There is no Islam as an single physical entity; it is an ideology, or if you prefer, a fractionalized religion. This is also an example of Hiyal, legal trickery, splitting hairs. If he were really trying to be accurate, he would say the Quran and Sunnah never ordered a jihad which approves of bloodshed” – which would be an obvious lie.
gravenimage says
Very true.
Nimrod says
Yep, there’s a doctrine equivalent to the parasite burying itself deeper into the brain so as to conceal itself until the time is right to fully emerge.
Islam has always been about lying about what it is really about until such time as this lying is no longer necessary.
Aton says
.
Pat Condell on the moral depravity of Saudi Arabia…
Westman says
I’m a little confused. Pat Condell lives in the UK and makes videos warning about the dangers of stealth jihad and criticizing the bad ideas of Islam while Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller are banned from visiting the UK?
Pehaps the difference is that Robert and Pamela cite the actual evidence and where anyone can confirm it while Condell sumarizes without references? It’s difficult to dismiss the doctrine quoted from your own sacred works.
Does anyone know if Condell requires a bodyguard? I would imagine that the UK based their decision (excuse) partly on the costs to guard Spencer and Geller.
gravenimage says
The UK would have a more difficult time exiling Pat Condell–who is British–than they do barring Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller, who are Americans.
This is the only real difference.
Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY) says
Mr. Gormez is not very competent as an Islamic scholar.
He should go back to his career in show business:
http://ericpetersautos.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/gomez-pic.jpg
My Shari'a Moor says
We’ve seen this VILE ‘meringue’ (Hahahahaha!) in action years before!
Ol’ Gormez is a taquiyya/kitman artist of the first water; rabbiting away with his Ankara buds to make Islam (& Turkey’s entrance into the EU) more palatable to the FOOLISH kuffar!
To wit:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7264903.stm
BBC NEWS – Last Updated: Tuesday, 26 February 2008, 14:43 GMT
‘Turkey in Radical Revision of Islamic Texts’
(By Robert Pigott, Religious affairs correspondent, BBC news)
“Turkey is preparing to publish a document that represents a revolutionary reinterpretation of Islam – and a controversial and radical modernisation of the religion.
The country’s powerful Department of Religious Affairs has commissioned a team of theologians at Ankara University to carry out a fundamental revision of the Hadith, the second most sacred text in Islam after the Koran.
The Hadith is a collection of thousands of sayings reputed to come from the Prophet Muhammad.
As such, it is the principal guide for Muslims in interpreting the Koran and the source of the vast majority of Islamic law, or Sharia.
It says that a significant number of the sayings were never uttered by Muhammad, and even some that were need now to be reinterpreted.
‘Reformation’
Commentators say the very theology of Islam is being reinterpreted in order to effect a radical renewal of the religion.
Its supporters say the spirit of logic and reason inherent in Islam at its foundation 1,400 years ago are being rediscovered. Some believe it could represent the beginning of a reformation in the religion.
Turkish officials have been reticent about the revision of the Hadith until now, aware of the controversy it is likely to cause among traditionalist Muslims, but they have spoken to the BBC about the project, and their ambitious aims for it.
The forensic examination of the Hadiths has taken place in Ankara University’s School of Theology.
Fr Felix Koerner, a Christian theologian who has observed the project, says some of the sayings – also known individually as “hadiths” – can be shown to have been invented hundreds of years after the Prophet Muhammad died, to serve the purposes of contemporary society.
“Unfortunately you can even justify through alleged hadiths, the Muslim – or pseudo-Muslim – practice of female genital mutilation,” he says.
“You can find messages which say ‘that is what the Prophet ordered us to do’. But you can show historically how they came into being, as influences from other cultures, that were then projected onto Islamic tradition.”
The argument is that Islamic tradition has been gradually hijacked by various – often conservative – cultures, seeking to use the religion for various forms of social control.
Leaders of the Hadith project say successive generations have embellished the text, attributing their political aims to the Prophet Muhammad himself.
‘Revolutionary’
Turkey is intent on sweeping away that “cultural baggage” and returning to a form of Islam it claims accords with its original values and those of the Prophet.
But this is where the revolutionary nature of the work becomes apparent. Even some sayings accepted as being genuinely spoken by Muhammad have been altered and reinterpreted.
Prof Mehmet Gormez, a senior official in the Department of Religious Affairs and an expert on the Hadith, gives a telling example.
“There are some messages that ban women from travelling for three days or more without their husband’s permission and they are genuine.
“But this isn’t a religious ban. It came about because in the Prophet’s time it simply wasn’t safe for a woman to travel alone like that. But as time has passed, people have made permanent what was only supposed to be a temporary ban for safety reasons.”
The project justifies such bold interference in the 1,400-year-old content of the Hadith by rigorous academic research.
Prof Gormez points out that in another speech, the Prophet said “he longed for the day when a woman might travel long distances alone”.
So, he argues, it is clear what the Prophet’s goal was.
‘Original spirit’
Yet, until now, the ban has remained in the text, and helps to restrict the free movement of some Muslim women to this day.
As part of its aggressive programme of renewal, Turkey has given theological training to 450 women, and appointed them as senior imams called “vaizes”.
They have been given the task of explaining the original spirit of Islam to remote communities in Turkey’s vast interior.
One of the women, Hulya Koc, looked out over a sea of headscarves at a town meeting in central Turkey and told the women of the equality, justice and human rights guaranteed by an accurate interpretation of the Koran – one guided and confirmed by the revised Hadith.
She says that, at the moment, Islam is being widely used to justify the violent suppression of women.
“There are honour killings,” she explains.
“We hear that some women are being killed when they marry the wrong person or run away with someone they love.
“There’s also violence against women within families, including sexual harassment by uncles and others. This does not exist in Islam… we have to explain that to them.”
‘New Islam’
According to Fadi Hakura, an expert on Turkey from Chatham House in London, Turkey is doing nothing less than recreating Islam – changing it from a religion whose rules must be obeyed, to one designed to serve the needs of people in a modern secular democracy.
He says that to achieve it, the state is fashioning a new Islam.
“This is kind of akin to the Christian Reformation,” he says. (!!!!!!!!!!)
“Not exactly the same, but if you think, it’s changing the theological foundations of [the] religion. ”
Fadi Hakura believes that until now secularist Turkey has been intent on creating a new politics for Islam.
Now, he says, “they are trying to fashion a new Islam.”
Significantly, the “Ankara School” of theologians working on the new Hadith have been using Western critical techniques and philosophy.
They have also taken an even bolder step – rejecting a long-established rule of Muslim scholars that later (and often more conservative) texts override earlier ones.
“You have to see them as a whole,” says Fadi Hakura.
“You can’t say, for example, that the verses of violence override the verses of peace. This is used a lot in the Middle East, this kind of ideology.
“I cannot impress enough how fundamental [this change] is.”‘
(Yeah, Gormez & Co.: just say ANYTHING to make the decayed & JAGGED bolus of Islam less likely to lodge in our mouths before it reaches its target: the West’s collective THROAT!)
voegelinian says
That project by Turkish Muslim scholars of “revising” the hadiths was later shelved as undoable, by the way, as Jihad Watch reported back in 2008:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/02/turkeys-big-islamic-reform-never-mind
gravenimage says
“When did jihad – meaning an end to oppression and corruption {toward Muslims} – turn into a term for a vulgar culture? Islam never orders a jihad which approves of bloodshed”
…………………………..
What ham-fisted Taqiyya. Mehmet Görmez’s only concern is that the naked Islam of the Islamic State “makes Islam look bad”.
Look at this sick article, where the cleric claims that the Islamic mass-murder of Infidels who dared criticize Islam at Charlie Hebdo was, instead, “a direct attack on Islam and Muslims”:
“The attack carried out by using the name of Islam’s prophet to take revenge is an attempted attack to erase the noble values that were brought to humanity by the Prophet Muhammed, the messenger of mercy and peace. In other words, that attack is a direct attack on Islam and the followers of this noble religion, Muslims.”
http://www.dailysabah.com/politics/2015/01/08/turkeys-religious-head-condemns-paris-attack
Who cares about dead Infidels–someone is presenting Islam in a bad light!
And notice that Mehmet Görmez doesn’t mention that Turkey itself is funding ISIS:
“Islamic State jihadi says his group gets funding from Turkey”
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/08/islamic-state-jihadi-says-his-group-gets-funding-from-turkey
And this, from just yesterday:
“Islamic State jihadis recruiting in Turkish mosques, treated in Turkish hospitals”
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/08/islamic-state-jihadis-recruiting-in-turkish-mosques-treated-in-turkish-hospitals
There are many more stories indicating that Turkey is backing ISIS. Don’t expect to hear anything about this from Mehmet Görmez, though…
Voytek Gagalka says
Going along their line of (anti-) thoughts, one must subsequently come to the unavoidable conclusion that Muhammad was himself very much non-Islamic and whatever he did (which is precisely described in all his “traditions”) was grossly against all his own precepts of his religion and thus very much “islamophobic”!
Uncle Vladdi says
I guess he never bothered to read through islam’s own most officially-vetted TABARI HISTORIES – which, I might add, were overseen and edited when published in English by a Turk, Ehsan Yar-Shater, (of Columbia University).
ISLAM’S HISTORIES ARE REALLY ONLY HITSTORIES.
😉