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Jihad Watch

Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Debunking the Religious Equivalency Fallacy

Sep 6, 2015 5:49 am By Ralph Sidway

Or, Why there are no ‘Podvig’ terror attacks.

On the Islam and Christianity blog, the author, Abu Daoud (a Christian evangelist living in the Middle East), offers critical remarks regarding an interview given by an Orthodox Christian priest/professor/author, who was presenting guidance for Christians in their interactions with Muslims. Some of it was useful, some of it was familiar, but the standout moment concerned this priest’s assertion that:

Muslim fundamentalists and Christian fundamentalists defile their religion in the same way.

 To which Abu Daoud replies:

OK, here’s a load of crap… They certainly both defile their religion, but one group becomes intolerant and arrogant, the other intolerant and violent.

 At first glance, this seems an adequate refutation of the “religious equivalency” fallacy, and we could stop right there. But since the tendency to see all religions as essentially equivalent is so prevalent, I think it will be very helpful to unpack this comparison a bit, and “drill down” into some component issues.

Fundamentalism and Zeal

First of all, perhaps the term “fundamentalist” is open to discussion. I personally prefer the adjectives “devout,”  “pious,” “observant” or “zealous.”  The reason for my preference stems from the observation that when one hears of fundamentalist Christians, one typically connotes Bible-believing, sola scriptura Protestants, which could include Baptists, Evangelicals, etc.

Granted, when used in a pejorative manner, we have an understanding of what the speaker intends to say. But at the same time, I personally know many fundamentalist Christians who exemplify qualities of charity, generosity, kindness, peacefulness, and with their lives refute the various caricatures that have become attached to the word fundamentalist. That they base their faith on the fundamentals of the Christian kerygma is to their credit, when so many “nuancey” Christians seem to get it all muddled up and one can’t tell if they really stand for something, or if they’re liable to fall for anything.

Interestingly, in Orthodox Christianity, one does not really see fundamentalism so much as what the New Testament calls “zeal not according to knowledge” (Romans 10:2). That is to say, that Orthodoxy (along with the Eastern/Oriental/Coptic Christian communities) is so rich and varied with its many sources of tradition — Scripture, oral tradition, early church writers, worship, liturgical texts, Church councils, canon law, iconography — that the term fundamentalist does not comprehensively describe the phenomenon of one who is somehow getting worked up over issues of observance and correctness. 

Thus, in the Orthodox Church we sometimes speak of the “crazy convert” syndrome, or the “correctness disease,” where strictness of observance and proper fulfillment of the externals of Christian life become the focus, to the point of judging others, and ultimately to the exclusion of basic Christian virtues of warmth of heart, forgiveness, and charity towards one’s neighbor. In Biblical terms, this can also be termed Pharisaism, holding to the letter of the law while denying the heart of it. (This is much of what Jesus Christ warned against, and to this day this wrong-headed attitude turns people off to Christianity.) 

Hopefully, for those who fall into this temptation, these syndromes are merely a passing phase, and over time the example of one’s brothers and sisters and the guidance of one’s priest or teachers will soften and smooth the rough edges, and help the believer suffering from this “zeal not according to knowledge” to combine mercy and tenderheartedness with their admirable but unbalanced focus on correctness and rigor. Some Orthodox describe the Church experience as a “lapidary” one, as one’s rough ways are ideally worn smooth over time through their interactions with others combined with their internalization of the Gospel and the teachings of the fathers, etc.

Christian Podvig…

For many, this struggle is one of the most difficult Christian battles they will wage, and in the Russian tradition there is a word for this sort of inner effort: podvig. 

Unable to be conveyed in a single English word, “podvig” essentially means “ascetic spiritual struggle”. In Orthodox Christian theology, it applies especially to the inner process of purification from sinful passions, which are understood to be a sickness, which is treated in our hospital, the Church. For a Christian, “zeal not according to knowledge” is a passion, a sickness of the soul to be rooted out. For someone predisposed to this sort of aggressive fervor, their podvig will be the awareness of this tendency, and repenting of it, with the help of their priest or confessor, or of good friends or other mentor figures. For those who reject such help, if they are fortunate and really do yearn to know God, God Himself oftentimes steps in, leading them through years and even decades of humbling life circumstances to soften their hearts and break their stubborn will. As C.S. Lewis said, 

Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn.

Podvig can also have an expanded meaning. In our contemporary Western world, the Christian must struggle against the spirit of the age. The late Russian Metropolitan Laurus of blessed memory spoke in 1985 of The Ascetic Podvig of Living in the World:

The situation of an Orthodox person, an Orthodox Christian who lives in the contemporary world, may be described, without any exaggeration, as extremely difficult. The whole of present-day life, in all its tendencies, in one way or another is directed against a person who is trying to live according to the teachings of the Orthodox Church. In life around us, in our environment, in our heterodox surroundings, everything is essentially a total denial of Christianity. If, in the beginning of the Christian era, Christ’s beloved disciple, St. John the Theologian, could write, “… the whole world lieth in wickedness” (I John 5:19), then how much more justified we are in speaking thus of our times.

Being a faithful Christian, prepared to preserve unto death one’s faith in Christ the Saviour, is much more difficult in our day than it was in the first centuries of Christianity. Today we see that everything connected with faith in God, with the teaching of God’s Word, with following Christ’s teachings and example, in one way or another is being driven out of a person’s life. This process that is taking place in the contemporary world is a process of apostasy, and it can be detected in every aspect of life.

Pretty zealous, “fundamentalist” stuff, eh?

As visually hinted in the comparison photo at top, the most “extreme” form of Orthodox Christian “fundamentalism” — both interior and in rejection of the world — is monasticism. The most common form of Christian monasticism is cenobitic, in which monks or nuns live in a community, under vows of poverty, chastity and obedience, in order to live out the Gospel teachings of Christ as fully as possible, and to strive to know God through unceasing prayer. Stillness, even in the midst of activity (and monastics work hard, with daily chores, or “obediences” assigned for the upkeep and provision of the monastery’s needs) is foundational; one will often see at a monastery little signs reminding one of the rule: “Prayer — Work — Silence.”

 … versus Islamic Jihad

One can see in the monastic movement, and in the remarks of Metropolitan Laurus, a similarity to Islamic criticism of contemporary Western culture. In fact, the decadence of the West is one of the most oft-cited offenses being rejected and fought against by devout Muslims, along with what is described as the West’s war against Islam. As Raymond Ibrahim documents in his book, The Al Qaeda Reader, these two memes are key to the propaganda fed to the West by AQ’s founders Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri. This justification of murderous terrorist acts is summed up in the pithy rhyme on the sign held by a devout Muslim protester: “Europe is the Cancer — Islam is the Answer!”

Yet as Raymond Ibrahim also documents in The Al Qaeda Reader, through previously untranslated texts by bin Laden and al-Zawahiri directed to their Arabic speaking audience:

Al-Qaeda’s chilling ideology calls for a relentless jihad against non-Muslim “infidels,” repudiates democracy in favor of Islamic law, stresses the importance of martyrdom, and mocks the notion of “moderate” Islam.

Perhaps the most disturbing aspect of these works is how grounded they are in the traditional sources of Islamic theology: the Koran and the teachings of the Prophet. The founders of al-Qaeda use these sources as powerful weapons of persuasion, reminding followers (and would-be recruits) that Muhammad and his warriors spread Islam through the power of the sword and that the Koran is not merely allegory or history but literal truth that commands all Muslims to action. (From the publisher’s book description.)

Muslim apologists in the United States seek to convince non-Muslims that jihad merely means an interior struggle, and that the term has been hijacked by Al Qaeda and other Islamic terrorist groups. They often cite a hadith in which Muhammad, after returning from battle, said “We have returned from the lesser jihad to the greater jihad.” When his followers asked him “What is the greater jihad?” he replied “The jihad of the heart, the jihad against one’s ego.”

Yet, in Islamic jurisprudence, the hadith supporting this statement is not considered a sound hadith and is rejected by such authorities as the 14th century classical Muslim scholar Ibn Taymiyya, and significantly also by Hassan al-Banna, founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, and by Abdullah Azzam, co-founder of Al Qaeda and mentor of Osama bin Laden. The understanding of warfare against infidels as the “higher jihad” is codified in The Reliance of the Traveller, the Shafi’i manual certified by the highest authority in Sunni Islam, Al Azhar University in Cairo, which states:

Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word mujahada signifying warfare to establish the religion.

The scriptural basis for jihad, prior to scholarly consensus (def: b7) is such Koranic verses as:

“Fighting is prescribed for you” (Koran 2:216); “Slay them wherever you find them” (Koran 4:89); “Fight the idolators utterly” (Koran 9:36);

and such hadiths as the one related by Bukhari and Muslim that the Prophet said:

“I have been commanded to fight people until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and perform the prayer, and pay zakat. If they say it, they have saved their blood and possessions from me, except for the rights of Islam over them. And their final reckoning is with Allah”;

and the hadith reported by Muslim,

“To go forth in the morning or evening to fight in the path of Allah is better than the whole world and everything in it.”     (Reliance of the Traveller, o9.0, o9.1, o9.8, o9.9)

Indeed, seen in the light of traditional, mainstream Islamic teaching, and understood in the context of Islam’s history of jihad warfare against non-Muslims, the inner jihad is a devout Muslim’s pious preparation for the external jihad of war against non-Muslims.

Regarding this pious preparation, Nicolai Sennels writes:

Both the Quran and Muhammed… mentions several times how important it is for Muslims to be willing to give up everything, even their lives, in order to wage jihad for Allah…

Greater jihad is thus an inner psychological process of removing emotional obstacles, such as the survival instinct and the natural biological attachment to offspring, spouses and a safe and comfortable dwelling, making the believer ready and willing to submit and give up every personal desire and attachment to spread Islam.

The greater jihad, the mental replacement of personal desires with an absolute loyalty towards Allah and his prophet and laws, is aided by what could be called the cultural psychological spine of Islamic culture: the recitation of the Islamic scriptures (some even learn the whole Quran by heart), expressions of loyalty through prayer five times a day by repeating the salah (“O Allah, how perfect You are and praise be to You. Blessed is Your name, and exalted is Your majesty. There is no god but You.”), and the well-known and severe religious and social control that ensure the rule of Sharia in Muslim societies…

Seen from a psychological perspective, the greater jihad is nothing but self-radicalisation — an inner holy war of brainwashing oneself that is deeply ingrained in Islamic tradition — to go against human nature, which includes basic survival instincts and the natural aversion — also among animals — to the killing of members of one’s own species.

Thus, according to canonical, legitimate Islamic sources, the inner jihad is meant to prepare the true Muslim for the external jihad of warfare against non-Muslims. This is the whole purpose of devotion, piety, zeal and the interior struggle, as the Muslim follows the teachings and example of Muhammad. Muslim terrorists are revered in the Islamic world as Mujahideen, “strugglers,” or more literally, “people doing jihad.”

Peaceful Jihad?

Before concluding, we must address the objection that the Sufi tradition is an example of a more mystical, peaceful form of Islam, the better to be compared with Orthodox Christian monasticism. For many Western writers, the Sufi strain seems like a ray of hope, holding potential for reform within Islam.

Is Sufism mystical? Yes, but peaceful? Not so much. In fact, as Andrew Bostom shows in his exhaustively researched 2005 article Sufi Jihad?, Sufism is just as committed to Islamic supremacism and jihad as the most extreme Wahhabist or Salafist sects:

Throughout the 20th century, and at present, Sufi ideologues and mass movements (especially the Naqshbandiya) have been engaged in defensive-offensive jihad campaigns designed not only to expel real (or perceived) ‘colonial powers’, but also to create supra-national (regional) shari’a states, or even a frank Caliphate (i.e., a single unified global shari’a state). The restored Shi’ite theocracy in Iran, whose contemporary shari’a-based system of dhimmitude was drafted by a leading Sufi — Sultanhussein Tabandeh — provides a sobering example of what ‘Sufi ecumenism’ towards non-Muslims means in practice.

Why No Podvig Terror Attacks?

So, turning back to Eastern (and Oriental) Orthodox Christianity, which has a lively and vigorous tradition of interior struggle, why is it we never once hear of a podvig terror attack? This is an especially relevant question, as the demographics are so similar; there are relatively the same number of Orthodox Christians in the United States as Muslims, and many of each group consider themselves members of a “diaspora”: Russian, Greek, Serbian, Lebanese, Syrian, Coptic Orthodox —Somali, Syrian, Egyptian, Iraqi, Iranian, Saudi Arabian, Indonesian Muslims.

Even when bishops of the Orthodox Church call for “podvig” against the corrupting influences of the contemporary world, we never see that described by the bishops as offensive, physical warfare, and we never see it manifested in attacks against people or property. We see it through increased prayer, fasting, charity, kindness, as Christian strugglers internalize the teachings and example of Jesus. 

Nor out of geo-political motivations do we see podvig terrorist attacks. 

Even though President Bill Clinton led the United States into war against the Serbians (an Orthodox Christian people), siding with the Bosnian Muslims during the wars of Yugoslav succession, we have yet to see Serbs or other Slavic sympathizers playing the victim card and waging podvig on American streets with suicide vests, cleavers, bombs and guns. And we certainly do not see sedition being preached against the United States in Serbian (or Russian, Greek, Syrian, etc.) Orthodox Churches in America (compared to four separate studies over the last decade which reveal that 80% of mosques in America preach violent jihad and Islamic supremacism).

Instead, it is axiomatic that as an Orthodox Christian grows in piety and zeal according to knowledge, the more peace-filled they should become. One of the most beloved saints of the Church, Seraphim of Sarov, condensed this teaching down to the following saying:

Acquire the Spirit of Peace, and a thousand will be saved around you.

 It should be clear that in Orthodox Christianity, the 2,000 year tradition of inner ascetical struggle — “podvig” in Russian — has as its goal deliverance and purification from the passions, so that one can ascend to illumination, and eventually to union (theosis) with God. There is no double-speak (taqiyya) in Christianity, beguiling outsiders with platitudes about “inner struggle” while preparing believers through that very inner struggle to wage harsh warfare against the unsuspecting infidels. Individual Christian believers may have challenges due to “zeal not according to knowledge,” but the goal is to be healed of such ailments.

Conversely, as a devout Muslim grows in knowledge of his faith, the more he realizes he is called to wage jihad. Proper zeal, and worship pleasing to Allah —“Zeal according to knowledge” — for a Muslim means joining the ranks of the Mujahideen. In contrast to the irenic saying of St Seraphim of Sarov, a zealous Muslim might use these words, adapted from the section above from The Reliance of the Traveller:

Fight the idolators utterly, and a thousand will be slain around you.

Defiling or Honoring?

Now, let’s look again at the one line refutation of the “religious equivalency fallacy”:

They certainly both defile their religion, but one group becomes intolerant and arrogant, the other intolerant and violent.

Although this is a clever spontaneous rejoinder to purveyors of the religious equivalency myth, I think we have seen that zealous Muslims, the Mujahideen, do not defile their religion at all. Rather, by waging jihad they honor the teachings of their religion and their prophet in the most fervent, traditional, way.

We ought never hear of a Podvig Terror Attack, whereas, as surely as the sun rises, we will continue to see multiplied before our eyes ever more Jihad Terror Attacks, especially as Islam’s Rule of Numbers is borne out in Europe, the U.K and the United States, and zealous Muslims feel ever more emboldened and compelled to openly honor the actual teachings and commands of their prophet and their religion.

 _____

Ralph Sidway is an Orthodox Christian researcher and writer, and author of Facing Islam: What the Ancient Church has to say about the Religion of Muhammad. He operates the Facing Islam blog.

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Filed Under: Featured, Islamic supremacism, Jihad doctrine, moral equivalence Tagged With: Islamist extremism, Orthodox Christianity, podvig, religious equivalence


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Comments

  1. Gary says

    Sep 6, 2015 at 6:06 am

    1 John 1:7

    But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

    Muslims continue to walk in darkness. Despising the word of God. …..The blind leading the blind.

    • Azacque says

      Sep 6, 2015 at 6:21 am

      Amen

  2. No Fear says

    Sep 6, 2015 at 6:34 am

    Sharing blood for Allah?

    Hep C, HIV, HTLV1, HTLV2, Hep B, Hep D, Hep E, JCV, HHV8, HHV7, HHV6, HHV6a, HHV5, prion CJD …..etc etc

  3. Martin Vink during says

    Sep 6, 2015 at 7:18 am

    There is no comparison between Christianity and Islam at any level. There is no need for Christians to apologize.

    Christians were persecuted first by the Roman Empire and then by the Holy Roman Empire and Papacy at a time when the Latin Bible was closed to Church members.

    After Christians were able to defeat the Papacy, they transformed the world. This was a feat that only god fearing people have been able to accomplish in history.

    For 1400 years Islam has been killing and destroying everything that moves or stands still.

    That is a complete history of Christianity and Islam.

    • navnlos says

      Sep 6, 2015 at 12:58 pm

      Correction: that is a whitewashed history of Christianity.

      The Holy Roman Empire was Christian… as were the crusaders. The enlightenment happened once Christianity began to fade from European institutions.

      You are doing none of us any favors by denying Christianity’s violent past. It is better to show how the religion was reformed for the better, as an example Islam should follow.

      • voegelinian says

        Sep 6, 2015 at 2:27 pm

        Thanks for the Politically Correct(ion). ACtually, the Crusades were battles of self-defense against the plunder, pillage and depredations wrought by Muslim invasions & occupations of lands across Asia Minor, the Middle East, and North Africa that had been Christian for three centuries before Mohammed was in diapers (or before he wore a diaper on his head).

        • navnlos says

          Sep 6, 2015 at 2:45 pm

          And the wanton murder of Jews along the way? I love how you people always forget that part.

          And I am in no way, shape, or form PC. I disdain all religion.

        • Mazo says

          Sep 6, 2015 at 4:12 pm

          Westerners wear diapers inside their head. In normal people brains are usually located there.

          The Middle East was Semetic before the Hellenic conquests. What happened was “Re-Semitization”.

        • MKG says

          Sep 6, 2015 at 7:05 pm

          So westerners have shit for brains. Is that what you are trying to tell us Mazo? Are you refering to all of us or just a select few?

        • Mazo says

          Sep 6, 2015 at 8:40 pm

          I was talking to an apologist for imperialism who proudly admits to calling Native Americans by derogatory names.

        • Angemon says

          Sep 7, 2015 at 9:35 am

          Mazo posted:

          “I was talking to an apologist for imperialism who proudly admits to calling Native Americans by derogatory names.”

          Let’s not forget you’re an apologist for arabic (islamic) imperialism – you’re not against imperialism, you’re just against non-arabic (islamic) imperialism. As for “derogatory name” calling, you’ve described people as having “the same skin color as fecal matter”.

          Just the usual bouts of rambling hypocrisy we grew to expect from mazo/shams…

        • MKG says

          Sep 6, 2015 at 9:32 pm

          Good try Mazo, I have not called Native Americans by derogatory terms nor do I appologize for imperialism. I have no illusions of the evil deeds of mankind past or present irregardless of their culture or religion. Mankind fights for control of the earth. Those who win rejoice. Those who loose suffer.
          Shit for brains?
          Thank you. I have no complaints.

        • MKG says

          Sep 6, 2015 at 10:50 pm

          Mazo, if you are referring to my disagreement with kay (whose comments I really enjoy reading), please provide us with the derogatory name I used for Native Americans. Do you think Native Americans are not human like the rest of us. I have no illusions of the dark deeds of mankind past or present, irregardless of culture or religion, and I apologize for none of them. You seem to be one who knows a bit of history. Can you enlighten me of a nation not forged by the sword?

        • gravenimage says

          Sep 7, 2015 at 1:21 am

          The meretricious Mazo wrote:

          Westerners wear diapers inside their head. In normal people brains are usually located there.

          The Middle East was Semetic before the Hellenic conquests. What happened was “Re-Semitization”.
          …….,…..,.,,……………….

          The appalling Mazo would have us believe that enslavement and genocide of Jews, Copts, and Assyrians–and destruction of their culture–by ravening conquering Mohammedans was just returning to the balance of pre-Ptolemaic Near East.

          Try again, creep…

      • Lucretius says

        Sep 6, 2015 at 6:12 pm

        No, we don’t forget the Rhineland Massacre, which the Church universally condemned. We don’t forget the whole picture as you do to pick what you want from it to blacken the Church’s name. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=219zAnN75lA

        And please, enough with fictions of “Enlightenment” and “Humanity.” Whoever says “Mankind” intends to deceive! It is the imperialist flag of the Last Men whose final consequence consists in the enemy’s being denied the quality of being human and thereby war’s being driven to the point of extreme inhumanity. Enmity, war, politics, religion and the separateness and variations of peoples, shall never cease, since it is against the voice of nature, whose core teaching is the survival of the fittest in the midst of extinction carnage. And there is no avoiding with peacefulness the choice which this world presents of gaining either the upper or the lower hand. As Hugh de Payens, founder of the fighting monks known as the Knights Templar put it: “Look, brothers, if you were supposed to seek rest and quiet, there would be no religious orders left in God’s Church…. If the Apostles had said to Christ: We want to be free and contemplate, not run about and work; we want to be far from people’s objections and disputes,’… where would the Christians be now?” And in the medieval poem, Le Moniage de Guillaume, a warrior who spent his life fighting Muslims and becomes a monk, scorns the order of his abbot not to physically resist bandits because monks cannot use violence with these wise words: “‘Master,’ he said, ‘the rules of your order are too harsh. Such an order could come to a bad end, may God burden the person who set it up! The order of knighthood is much more worthwhile: they fight against Turks and pagans, and allow themselves to be martyred for love of God. They are often baptized in their own blood, in order to conquer the Kingdom of Right. Monks only want to eat and drink, read and sing and sleep and snore. They are cooped up like hens, fattening up, daydreaming in their psalters…. May God bring shame on this order and Jesus curse whoever set it up, because he was a bad man and full of cowardice. The order of knighthood is more worthwhile because they fight the Saracen race, take their lands and conquer their towns, and convert the pagans to our law.'”

      • Martin Vink says

        Sep 6, 2015 at 7:22 pm

        The Holy Roman Empire was not an Empire. It was not Roman and it was not Holy. Neither was it Christian. To be a Christian you would need to read a Bible in your own language. The Bible was only available to selected priests in Latin (which they knew but not the people). The Bible was closed from 800 to 1800 to the Catholic Church. During that period of religious darkness we have crusades against everything that moved, including Christians like the Waldenses, Albigenses,Hussites, Huguenots, etc. Millions of Christians were killed.

      • Angemon says

        Sep 6, 2015 at 7:48 pm

        navnlos posted:

        “The Holy Roman Empire was Christian… as were the crusaders. (…)

        You are doing none of us any favors by denying Christianity’s violent past.”

        *yawn*

        Don’t you false equivalence peddlers ever get new material? By now, you’re not even beating a dead horse, you’re beating the dirt where the dead horse lay before you beat it so hard and often you pulverized it.

        The Holy Roman Empire was Christian. So what? The ottoman empire was muslim and the Aztec empire was, well, Aztec. See, I can name empires and their religion too!

        As for the Crusades, they were not a bunch of Europeans who read the Bible and said “God is telling us to go East and kill Arabs and Jews”. They were a small-scale, delayed response to centuries of islamic aggression, and although they ultimately failed, they bought Europe important time to reform and regroup to fight off islamic invaders, who kept coming and coming up until well into the 17h century (and restarted now under the guise of “refugees”).

      • Raja says

        Sep 7, 2015 at 10:12 am

        Navnlos,

        Are you by any chance Islamic proselyte? They have the habit of falsifying all TRUTH.

        Would you not defend yourselves when some thugs/barbarians invade your town/village much less the Christians living peacefully?

        Where is your logic and reason?

        • navnlos says

          Sep 7, 2015 at 11:43 am

          On this thread I have been accused of being PC, attempting to blacken Christianity’s name, being a “false equivalence peddler”, and now of being an Islamic proselyte… all for daring to speak against Christianity. Do you people not see you are as bad as the spineless lefties you so despise, who accuse you of “Islamophobia” the moment you speak against Islam. You are reducing me to a one-dimensional stereotype, just like those who would label you all rabid right wing racists.

          I never once claimed claimed Christianity was wrong for taking back the Levant from the Muslims, or that the Bible instructed them to murder Jews, but the Church distorted it in order to control the masses and have them do their bidding. This is why I despise organized religion; it is all about keeping people ignorant so they can be controlled. Nor did I insinuate Christianity and Islam are at all equal in barbarity today.

          I came here without prejudice for any of you, having disregarded the obvious stereotypes lefties give to people who frequent sites like this, only to be subjected to your own prejudices. You aren’t going to win this battle by attacking people who are with you, or by being as close minded as any leftist or Islamist. Robert is always thoughtful and rational and you are doing him and the cause disservice with all this hatred.

          If you are so consumed with hatred for the other that you can’t think straight, then they have already won. I won’t let any Muslim (or anybody else) control my life, and that includes the way I think and feel.

        • Angemon says

          Sep 7, 2015 at 4:36 pm

          navnlos posted:

          “On this thread I have been accused of being PC, attempting to blacken Christianity’s name, being a “false equivalence peddler”, and now of being an Islamic proselyte… all for daring to speak against Christianity.”

          No, because you’re peddling a narrative of false equivalence between Christianity and islam. Much like you’re peddling another false narrative – that people here are ganging up on you for speaking against Christianity.

          “Do you people not see you are as bad as the spineless lefties you so despise”

          Another false equivalence – are you addicted to it or something?

          “who accuse you of “Islamophobia” the moment you speak against Islam.”

          Did anyone here started shrieking “Christianphobe! We’ve got a Christianphobe here! Bring in your bullhorns and sharpen your knives, we we’re going to shuthim up one way or another”?

          “You are reducing me to a one-dimensional stereotype, just like those who would label you all rabid right wing racists.”

          If you want to play the victim, carry on – but be warned you’ll get no traction with the thinking crowd.

          “I never once claimed claimed Christianity was wrong for taking back the Levant from the Muslims, or that the Bible instructed them to murder Jews”

          So you brought the Crusades up because…?

          “but the Church distorted it in order to control the masses and have them do their bidding.”

          And other Christians took it up to themselves to fight it. Hence the Protestant Reformation.

          “I came here without prejudice for any of you”

          Just with a chip on BOTH shoulders and the idea that Mr. Sidway is “whitewashing” history when he focuses on doctrinal matters to explain why Christianity and islam don’t teach the same.

          “having disregarded the obvious stereotypes lefties give to people who frequent sites like this, only to be subjected to your own prejudices.”

          Exactly who here is being “prejudiced”, and how? Also, are we supposed to be in awe of your mercifulness and clemency? Do you want a medal for that or something?

          “You aren’t going to win this battle by attacking people who are with you”

          Oh, you’re one of those people – you feel you can say anything you want about anything, but if anyone has any sort of objection then they’re “attacking” you. In any case, you’ve proven you’re not “one of us”, in more than one way.

          “or by being as close minded as any leftist or Islamist.”

          Which, except for you, no one so far demonstrated to be – islam is bad? Well, bring up Christianity. People are making arguments to the contrary? Oh, they’re just being close minded, and nothing they say can change my open mind.

          “Robert is always thoughtful and rational and you are doing him and the cause disservice with all this hatred.”

          Nonsense. No one here is “hating” on anyone, and Robert is only responsible for what he says and writes, not for what others say or write, whether it’s on his website or not.

          “If you are so consumed with hatred for the other that you can’t think straight”

          Not an argument. In any case, exactly who is consumed with hatred, and what has been said so far that can be classified as “not thinking straight”? Apart from your claims of “whitewashed history”, that is.

          “then they have already won.”

          They haven’t.

          “I won’t let any Muslim (or anybody else) control my life, and that includes the way I think and feel.”

          Too bad your sense of individual freedom doesn’t apply to others – apparently you’re entitled to control what we say and think using the rod of “if you say such and such or think such and such then you’re just like them”.

        • Raja says

          Sep 8, 2015 at 3:16 am

          navnlos commented on Debunking the Religious Equivalency Fallacy.

          in response to Raja:

          Navnlos, Are you by any chance Islamic proselyte? They have the habit of falsifying all TRUTH. Would you not defend yourselves when some thugs/barbarians invade your town/village much less the Christians living peacefully? Where is your logic and reason?

          On this thread I have been accused of being PC, attempting to blacken Christianity’s name, being a “false equivalence peddler”, and now of being an Islamic proselyte… all for daring to speak against Christianity. Do you people not see you are as bad as the spineless lefties you so despise, who accuse you of “Islamophobia” the moment you speak against Islam. You are reducing me to a one-dimensional stereotype, just like those who would label you all rabid right wing racists.

          I never once claimed claimed Christianity was wrong for taking back the Levant from the Muslims, or that the Bible instructed them to murder Jews, but the Church distorted it in order to control the masses and have them do their bidding. This is why I despise organized religion; it is all about keeping people ignorant so they can be controlled. Nor did I insinuate Christianity and Islam are at all equal in barbarity today.

          I came here without prejudice for any of you, having disregarded the obvious stereotypes lefties give to people who frequent sites like this, only to be subjected to your own prejudices. You aren’t going to win this battle by attacking people who are with you, or by being as close minded as any leftist or Islamist. Robert is always thoughtful and rational and you are doing him and the cause disservice with all this hatred.

          If you are so consumed with hatred for the other that you can’t think straight, then they have already won. I won’t let any Muslim (or anybody else) control my life, and that includes the way I think and feel.
          ____________________________________________________________________
          My reply:

          Mere casting aspersions does not imply hatred. Please note that there is a question mark. Hope you are not playing victim here.

          I don’t think any “established” Church has done anything really good for its flock in recent times. Tragically even today preachers (in Churches) are advised to focus on “happy and peaceful families” and not about their walk with God. Here is a quote for your ready reference. Romans chapter 8 Verse 37 to 39:.But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

          The actions or even words of some church leaders CANNOT be condoned. To give you a real life example: A Church in TX, US told a man who “changed” 10 women in his life was advised to go back to the first wife as that would have been the “RIGHT THING TO DO”. The dejected man went to another congregation under the same banner where he was told he was DOING FINE. and that he was welcome to join his church with gymnasium etc !!!!

          There was Bishop in England about a decade or two ago who bragged that he didn’t believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ !!!

          Most often man tends to see the physical world and its needs than WHAT IS REQUIRED OF God in a given situation.

          True, the older established Churches are not doing the desired service to God or man but man (church leaders included) is bestowed with freewill and he alone is responsible for his acts. That does NOT give license to anyone (including you) to revile God inspired Bible which stands out even in these Jihadi times !. In other words Bible is Christianity and Jesus will judge the world by his Own word.John 12:48

          I hope you will not rile the Church for some human misconceptions or practices or FOR SOME “POLITICAL CORRECTNESS”.

        • navnlos says

          Sep 7, 2015 at 6:02 pm

          I am not “peddling” any narrative, nor am I trying to control what anyone is saying. I’m just trying to have a rational conversation, which obviously isn’t possible with you. You are the one getting uptight about having your beliefs challenged. I had a brief exchange with gravenimage the other day which was reasonable, and I changed my position upon hearing what s/he had to say. However, there was only one person on this thread who didn’t respond with some lame accusation, and again, your response is laced with the same. Why can’t you make the arguments without the accusations?

          You clearly did not even understand who I was responding to. It was not about anything Mr Sidway said, but what the OP of this thread said. You are jumping to incorrect conclusions, and creating an enemy where there isn’t one. I hope I never become “one of you”, if that’s what it means.

        • Angemon says

          Sep 7, 2015 at 11:10 pm

          navnlos posted:

          “I am not “peddling” any narrative”

          Of course you are. And more than one.

          “nor am I trying to control what anyone is saying.”

          Again, of course you are, using the rod of “if you say such and such then you’re just like the people you hate and you’ve lost”.

          “I’m just trying to have a rational conversation”

          Nope. You make ignorant remarks, got called on them by several users and then proceeded to try to play the victim.

          “which obviously isn’t possible with you.”

          You’re the one short on rational discussion. For example, regarding the Crusades I said that they were a small-scale, delayed response to centuries of islamic aggression, and although they ultimately failed, they bought Europe important time to reform and regroup to fight off islamic invaders, who kept coming and coming up until well into the 17h century. You replied by… accusing others of attacking you.

          “You are the one getting uptight about having your beliefs challenged.”

          Nope. You’re the one who shorted out upon seeing dissonant voices.

          “I had a brief exchange with gravenimage the other day which was reasonable, and I changed my position upon hearing what s/he had to say.”

          What does GI have to do with the nonsense you’re saying here?

          “However, there was only one person on this thread who didn’t respond with some lame accusation”

          Yes, I can see you trying to engage in rational discussion with that person…Oh, wait…

          “and again, your response is laced with the same. Why can’t you make the arguments without the accusations?”

          Lol! This is a laugh, coming from the person saying that he’s being “attacked” and that we’re “close minded”, and “consumed by hatred”, etc.

          “You clearly did not even understand who I was responding to.”

          If you were keeping up with the responses you’re getting, and if you were really interested in rational discussion, you would realize I argued against your assertions regarding the Crusades, which is completely unaffected by whom you directed it to.

          If, on the other hand, you were not interested on rational discourse, and if you were interested in belittling anyone whose speech you don’t like, you’d say something like “you’re close minded”, “you’re consumed by hatred”, or “why, you can’t even understand who I was replying to!”, which would let you dismiss arguments without actually having to address them.

          “It was not about anything Mr Sidway said, but what the OP of this thread said.”

          The OP is Mr. Sidway. It’s up there, tight under “Debunking the Religious Equivalency Fallacy” – September 6, 2015 5:49 am By Ralph Sidway. In caps.

          “You are jumping to incorrect conclusions”

          If you say so. And you wouldn’t lie, would you?

          “and creating an enemy where there isn’t one.”

          Gee, for someone allegedly interested in rational discussion you sure tend to see things in terms of “attacks” and “enemies”…

          “I hope I never become “one of you”, if that’s what it means.”

          Of course you won’t – who would beat our heads in with the “But the Crusades!!!” stick then?

        • Western Canadian says

          Sep 7, 2015 at 9:15 pm

          You came and began to insult people, who by the way are vastly better informed on Christianity than you are, or will ever be.

          You begin by insulting people, and when you are called out on it, you pretend that YOU are the victim…….

          Truly pathetic.

        • navnlos says

          Sep 8, 2015 at 9:31 am

          Raja, I agree with most of what you said there, particularly “In other words Bible is Christianity”; there are a multitude of different denominations, each of which has a different interpretation of the Bible, and each of which claims to be telling the sole truth. Nobody knows the actual truth; you just go with what makes sense to you.

          I do not believe in any gods, as this does not make sense to me. Do not take this as an insult to you or your religion; I’m merely stating things the way I see it.

        • Raja says

          Sep 8, 2015 at 11:24 am

          navnlos ,

          Thanks for your kind words and the peace you have made. Hope do the same with others.

          You are free to scrutinize and be critical of Christianity but before that you have a responsibility of being accurate and truthful about ALL THAT you say. The God of bible is reasonable as is written:

          “Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the LORD, “Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool. Isaiah 1:18

          Jesus when on earth was subject all kinds of scrutiny and slander. He was/is still reasonable. He “works” in a veiled manner.

          Much of interpretation problem arises because men DO NOT SUM UP GOD’S WORD. It is written:

          The sum of Your word is truth… Psalms 119: 160.

          Personally, I can take any nonsense or insult but as I am “operating” under real name I tend to take things rather seriously. That should be OK with others.

          I am already having my hands full in dealing with civilian Roman empire of 6 BC and that of Roman Church of 6 AD. in my comment. Wish you also keep your comments to the point to save lot of time, resources and some restlessness….

      • kay says

        Sep 10, 2015 at 11:21 pm

        Re: “The enlightenment happened once Christianity began to fade from European institutions..”
        ——————
        Well, it goes more like this:
        The Renaissance and concurrently The Reformation with The Wars Of Religion.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Renaissance

        Then
        The Enlightenment:
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment

        The Age of Enlightenment or simply the Enlightenment or Age of Reason is an era from the 1620s to the 1780s in which cultural and intellectual forces in Western Europe emphasized reason, analysis, and individualism rather than traditional lines of authority. It was promoted by philosophes and local thinkers in urban coffee houses, salons, and Masonic lodges. It challenged the authority of institutions that were deeply rooted in society, especially the Roman Catholic Church; there was much talk of ways to reform society with toleration, science and skepticism…
        According to Bertrand Russell, however, the enlightenment was a phase in a progressive development, which began in antiquity, and that reason and challenges to the established order were constant ideals throughout that time.[9] Russell argues that the enlightenment was ultimately born out of the Protestant reaction against the Catholic counter-reformation, when the philosophical views of the past two centuries crystallized into a coherent world view. He argues that many of the philosophical views, such as affinity for democracy against monarchy, originated among Protestants in the early 16th century to justify their desire to break away from the Pope and the Catholic Church. Though many of these philosophical ideals were picked up by Catholics, Russell argues, by the 18th century the Enlightenment was the principal manifestation of the schism that began with Martin Luther.[9]

  4. Pig Jizya says

    Sep 6, 2015 at 7:56 am

    Islam is not a religion, it is a totalitarian ideology and an abomination foisted upon civilized man. When will civilized man wake-up?

  5. Peter Buckley says

    Sep 6, 2015 at 10:15 am

    To be fair, with Islam showing its “fruits” in the West,even atheists are learning that NOT ALL religions are “as bad as each other”:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMFsO58hXVM

    One in particular is a whole lot worse than the rest…………………..

    • Raja says

      Sep 6, 2015 at 3:37 pm

      There are three kinds of religions or religious texts/books.

      One kind is man made religion
      God inspired religion
      and finally devil made religion which is active in its MOST virulent form.

      Did anyone say the devil does not exist?

  6. ECAW says

    Sep 6, 2015 at 11:52 am

    I think Ralph Sidway has it wrong about jihad. He writes:

    “The understanding of warfare against infidels as the “higher jihad” is codified in The Reliance of the Traveller, the Shafi’i manual certified by the highest authority in Sunni Islam, Al Azhar University in Cairo, which states:

    “Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word mujahada signifying warfare to establish the religion.

    The scriptural basis for jihad, prior to scholarly consensus (def: b7) is such Koranic verses as:”

    This is from the Reliance of the Traveller section on jihad (o9.0).
    http://www.islamicbulletin.org/free_downloads/resources/reliance2_complete.pdf

    But he omits this (which appears to contradict his argument) from between the two paragraphs:

    “And it is the lesser jihad. As for the greater jihad, it is spiritual warfare against the lower self (nafs), which is why the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said as he was returning from jihad, “We have returned from the lesser jihad to the greater jihad.” ”

    To unscramble a bit – Everything Ralph Sidway quotes from section o9.0 of the Reliance is not from the original mediaeval Reliance, only from a 19th century commentary by one Umar Barakan which the translator weaves into his translation (that’s what the “O” in the second line means). I think that means we can disregard its contradictory messages.

    Section o9.1 onwards is entirely about holy war and makes no mention of higher lower jihad so it’s wrong to say ” The understanding of warfare against infidels as the “higher jihad” is codified in The Reliance of the Traveller”

    It’s just jihad – war against the infidel.

    • voegelinian says

      Sep 6, 2015 at 2:43 pm

      The so-called “greater jihad” is a struggle against the “inner infidel” inside every Muslim — or what we would call his conscience. In order to be an ideal mujahid, the Muslim has to subdue his conscience and keep it battered and comatose, though apparently Muhammad recognized how difficult this is to do, for the conscience is a divine spark in every human, and thus it itself cannot be killed, but by abusing the human vessel illuminated by this divine spark, it can at least be mastered.

      As Sidway writes, quoting Nicolai Sennels:

      Seen from a psychological perspective, the greater jihad is nothing but self-radicalisation — an inner holy war of brainwashing oneself that is deeply ingrained in Islamic tradition — to go against human nature, which includes basic survival instincts and the natural aversion — also among animals — to the killing of members of one’s own species.

      In this sense, this “greater jihad” is an act, or process, of the Muslim psychologically terrorizing himself — through terror directed at his own heart, soul, conscience in order to brutalize them into submission: to try to cease being human (a Satanic project, since Satan hates God’s Creation, and its pinnacle, Mankind).

      It helps meanwhile to externalize this struggle and its enemy by fighting and killing the Other. That’s why in that hadith Muhammad said that after battle, when the mujaheed returns home, he faces a more difficult struggle, because for that period of time after battle, he has no external distraction from his constant struggle to try to extinguish his inner God-created self. Islamic Jihad is a perennial, perpetual war against God through fighting and killing God’s creatures, and trying to kill their divine spirit through terror.

      • voegelinian says

        Sep 6, 2015 at 2:48 pm

        This Satanic project of Islamic Jihad is ultimately doomed, of course (since Satan has deluded himself into thinking he can win against God); but while trying but failing to succeed, its Mohammedan minions have already managed to wreak untold mayhem and misery amongst Mankind over the past 1400 years; are currently doing so as we speak; and portend the same — or even worse (if that can be horrifyingly imagined) as this 21st century unfolds.

        • Raja says

          Sep 6, 2015 at 3:27 pm

          Voegelinian,

          You are bang on target about the doom of Satan’s Islam. Anything against God does not stand- for too long. The earlier four super powers vanished in no time including the most evil Roman empire. The bible implies that “hand of God” was responsible for that. Islam has survived for far too long thanks to sly mixture of religion with politics. To add to that large scale moral depravity, braking of families, weakening of governance or inept governance, rise of individual rights and so on have aided and sharpened the sword of Islam against humanity. The West is still blinking about the above truth but some changes are apparent. Who could have imagined “An infidel’s guide to ISIS to be runway success? By some account ISIS is a blessing in disguise. The enemy has come out or revealed itself and mankind’s biggest propaganda and war machine -Islam is behind that. Wish all mankind sees what you and I see….

        • ECAW says

          Sep 6, 2015 at 4:28 pm

          Voegelinian – I think someone else is posting under your name. These two posts above are completely out of character and in a different style. I had intended to answer you but I don’t think it’s you.

          I don’t think the real Voegelinian would believe that just because there is a word there must be a thing to go along with it.

        • voegelinian says

          Sep 7, 2015 at 3:54 am

          ECAW,

          I usually don’t mention that dimension much in JW comments, but I have written about it on my blog, for example:

          Islam and the Psychology of Satan: The Tragicomedy of Hell on Earth

          Satan and Islam: another reverberation

          Islam’s darker source

          The Diabolic Connection

          Allah, the Evil Demiurge?

          and the one that most directly involves the theme my two comments here touch on:

          The Devil and Mrs. Jihad

          for links, see this Google page:

          https://www.google.com/#q=hesperado+satan

        • voegelinian says

          Sep 7, 2015 at 5:55 pm

          For the record, I don’t share Raja’s anti-Catholic hatred, and if I had my druthers, I wouldn’t allow it in the Counter-Jihad..

        • Raja says

          Sep 8, 2015 at 5:03 am

          My clarification on my own comment on Voegil..

          You are bang on target about the doom of Satan’s Islam. Anything against God does not stand- for too long. The earlier four super powers vanished in no time including the most evil Roman empire. The bible implies that “hand of God” was responsible for that. Islam has survived for far too long thanks to sly mixture of religion with politics.

          ____________________________________________________________________

          The super powers I am referring are the ones found in the Bible, before Christ and the last of the super powers Roman during Jesus’ time. The Church was not established until the day of Pentecost, after the death and resurrection of Jesus. This Roman empire-super power vanished in a few centuries after Christ, being most cruel in the first two centuries.The last emperor was appointed in 475 AD. The first Roman Catholic Pope was appointed in the year 606 AD From what I understand the Roman Catholic Church did not exists before that though you hear about Nicene creed of 325 AD etc. Clearly there is a gap of about three centuries between Constantine, the first royal christian convert and Roman Catholic Church and as such they should not and cannot be interchanged with the church and the state/empire

          .I don’t think I have EVER hated any Christian churches in my comments and I guess the evil Roman empire is misconstrued by some as connoting a church which is sadly inadvertent on my part. May be some interchange the name to vent their hatred. I was not. I believe comments should be used to build people up not to disparage or tear anyone down…

  7. MKG says

    Sep 6, 2015 at 12:20 pm

    BULLSEYE!
    Excellent article. Thanks for bringing this to us Mr. Spencer

    Stay safe

  8. abad says

    Sep 6, 2015 at 1:29 pm

    Abu Daoud is totally clueless about Orthodox Christianity isn’t he.

    LMAO

  9. Shmooviyet says

    Sep 6, 2015 at 2:43 pm

    Agree this is a terrific article.
    Two of the top photos accompanying seem to speak the basics of what one needs to know of this ideo/religion: so many followers appear at their ‘happiest’ (or most zealous) when shrieking with rage or splattered with bright blood, carrying signs threatening the rest of humanity with torture and death.
    If I’m wrong I’d appreciate a correction, no sarc intended.

  10. Garegin says

    Sep 6, 2015 at 3:35 pm

    The Christian equivalent to jihad is actually not the crusades, but the crusades in Europe against heretical sects. Christian Reconstructionism is the rough analouge to sharia. The big difference is that early Christians didn’t try to force non-belivers into a Christian legal system, whereas the Muslims did exactly that.
    Isis is not Ismalic? Yes they are. That’s exactly what happened in Islamic history. Sure, ultra liberals like Reza may not like it, but that’s their business. At that rate they may say that Muslims who are not pro-gay marriage are not true Muslims.

  11. somehistory says

    Sep 6, 2015 at 4:33 pm

    Saying that Christians *become intolerant and arrogant* is not a *debunking* of the claim made by the *priest.*

    Christians are taught to be humble, and to recognize their limitations (to be modest), to treat others as though *superior* (according to the Apostle Paul() to themselves, to treat others as they wish to be treated (commandment of Christ) and to recognize God is the Judge of all.

    Christians don’t tolerate wrong doing or immorality, but do not enforce the Laws of God onto their neighbors.

    • MKG says

      Sep 6, 2015 at 6:56 pm

      Somehistory, you’re completely correct regarding Christian teachings and humility. I think the part mentioning “intolerance and arrogance” is referring to those supposed Christians that have allowed their piety to fuel their ego and pride. We have to acknowledge they are out there and among us.

      • Kepha says

        Sep 6, 2015 at 8:17 pm

        Good points by somehisstory and MKG.

        We Christians should not act as if people haven’t abused the name of Christ at various times in our history–and wronged both God and neighbor in doing so. Our religion is not one of self-congratulation, but of repentance from our sins.

        For the past several months, I have been doing a lot of heavy lifting in our adult Sunday School’s study of the books of Samuel and Kings. I am struck by how the Biblical writers never mince about the sins of Israel and Judah, and record the follies and sins even of David, Solomon, and the handful of decent kings of Judah. Skipping from those books to the Matthaean genealogy of Christ, we note that “He was not ashamed to call them brethren” (Heb. 2:11) who loved strange women, were sojourners and aliens, fallen women, people who knew God’s covenant but ignored it, and some who even provoked God to wrath. The church is not and never was perfect in itself. It stands only because of Christ’s righteousness and atonement imputed to it by faith.

        Hence it is folly to speak of Israel’s or the church’s election by God as “arrogance”. Such people who say such things reveal their profound ignorance of the Scriptures. Nothing is less conducive to human pride than the knowledge that one’s standing with God is all of divine grace, not of our own doing.

    • Raja says

      Sep 7, 2015 at 10:22 am

      Well said Somehistory !!!!

  12. Kepha says

    Sep 6, 2015 at 8:04 pm

    Speaking as a Christian fundamentalist who, alas, is sometimes arrogant, I was generally impressed by this article. However, I deny that there is any such thing as a Muslims “fundamentalist”.

    The Christian fundamentals, which the original “fundamentalists” defended against modernism in the Protestant churches, were as follows:

    Biblical inspiration and the inerrancy of scripture as a result of this,

    Virgin birth of Jesus.

    Belief that Christ’s death was the atonement for sin.

    Bodily resurrection of Jesus.

    Historical reality of the miracles of Jesus.

    I would also add the belief that Jesus is both fully God and fully man in one person (hence, Jehovah’s Witnesses are NOT fundamentalists); and the personal second advent of the Lord to judge the living and the dead.

    Show me a Muslim who believes ALL of these doctrines, especially about the Bible, the crucifixion, and Jesus’ divinity, and I will show you someone who will be knocking on a church’s door looking for baptism and membership.

    I am also glad that Mr. Sidway demurred from the usual caricature of “fundamentalism” and pointed out how many of the Christian fundamentalists he knew exemplified humility, kindness, peaceableness, etc. May I suggest that this is because such people have taken to heart key teachings of the BIble, especially things found in the epistles of Paul (somebody else who is regularly slandered by so-called “enlightened” folks).

    For all you younger Jihad Watchers, especially those who haven’t been here long, Uncle Kepha’s recalls how nobody mentioned “Muslim fundamentalism” prior to the Iranian Revolution of 1979–and I would welcome anyone coming up with a reference to such a thing predating that time. Indeed, I even found a translation of one of Seyyid Qotb’s books published before that time by a Western publisher, who simply described Seiyyid Qotb’s views as “Islamic” rather than “fundamentalist”.

    A further reason for the MSM’s use of “fundamentalist” to describe Islamic ferment was to slam American Evangelicals who, in the run-up to the 1980 elections, were abandoning the Democratic Party of their grandparents in Jimmy Carter’s hour of need. The idea was to make a good chunk of Christian America look un-American. It was, perhaps, a “Red Scare” on the Left.

    And as a former officer of the US State Department, I will add that this “Muslim fundamentalist” meme created a great deal of confusion, misinterpretation, and downright folly among elite Americans who should have known much, much better. Back in those no-so-innocent years of 1989-1995, I recall being taught that “Monsoon Islam” was somehow not “fundamentalist”, because it was “Sufi-dominated”, and Sufis dialogued with Quakers. Hrrrmph. Didn’t this learned expert on Insular Southeast Asia know about the Moro rebels who gave the US quite a run for its money back in 1902? Didn’t they know about Sufi orders who fired up the resistance of the Caucasus mountaineers and Central Asians against both Tsars and Soviets?

    I also recall a stupid “think piece” on Islam in China, which said there was no danger of Muslims in China going “fundamentalist”, because they were Sunnite rather than Shi’ite–as if some of our own reporting from posts wasn’t about Sunnite Uyghur rebellions and Hui demonstrations in Qinghai that trashed Party headquarters and police stations (all in the namess of perceived or real slights to Islam). Having learned a bit more in the meantime, I note as well that in WWII, there were imams telling the Hui people that China’s war against Japan was a jihad; while Bai Chongxi and some others urged jihad against Communism by all of the world’s Muslims.

    Apparently, State’s analysts also failed to consider other Sunnite “fundamentalist” troublemakers from the Turkish Gray Wolves to Gulbuddin Hekmatyar’s Mooj faction in Afghanistan (thinking of groups active in those days of the late 20th century), or even our fine, upstanding, “moderate” Sa’udi allies who fretted about the corpses of Kufr Gulf War I casualties polluting their sacred sand.

    I also recall a conversation with a Malaysian diplomat in China, who had studied in the States and understood “fundamentalist” in the same way Sidway apparently does–observant, pious, devout. Despite being Muslim to his fingertips, this diplomat liked the Christian fundamentalists he’d met in the States. But he also told me, “Since I pray five times a day, abstain from pork and alcohol, and plan to make the Haj before I die, does America’s hostility to fundamentalism mean that I am now an enemy?” Now, this conversation could’ve been the Islamic world saying, “Let’s take up again where we left off in 1689 before Vienna”. It’s possible. But the man I spoke with was also someone who had hopes that the Cold War coalition would hold in the post-Cold War world. So, while Uncle Kepha sees most of the responsibility for today’s hostility between the USA and the Dar-ul-Islam as lying with Islam (not least its supremacist theology), I will also note that unwise choices of words by our own MSM and government also played their part.

    Sidway is correct to prefer words like “devout”, “observant”, “pious”, etc. to “fundamentalist”. Unhappily, our current elites will probably continue to think that anyone’s traditional pieties are dangerous.

    • Mazo says

      Sep 6, 2015 at 9:01 pm

      Weatern Orientalists and liberals deliberately portray Sufism as pacifist hippies who smoke pot as part of an imperialist plot to subvert true Sufi teachings.

      Sufism has nothing to do with pacifism, hippies, mystical drug induced hallucinations or whatever orientalists, imperialists and liberals portray it as.

      Your think tank piece might have deliberately said that because they wanted to “use” Uyghurs as pawns in their little game, and couldn’t portray them as fanatic nutjobs because then Americans would be repulsed by them. So American think tanks frequently portray Uyghurs as pacifist non-fundamentalist hippy Sufis who were victimized to garner them sympathy among Americans and portray them as innocent.

      The motive is the exact opposite. The imperialusts want to “use” peoples for their own interests so they deliberately give misportrayals and want to hijack Islam for their own agenda, whether it is to garner support for pawns or to project pacifism onto potential victims.

      The Moros resisted an unprovoked invasion of their homeland. America signed the Bates Treaty with the Moro Sulu Sultanate promising not to interere in their internal affairs and leave them alone while America as fighting Aguinaldo’s Filipino rebels. After the Filipino rebels were defeated America unilaterally tore up the Bates Treaty and invaded the Moros and forcibly annexed them to the Philippines. American troops massacred hundreds of Moro women and children at the crater in Bud Dajo. Mark Twain wrote about what happened and exposed the atrocities that were committed.

      After Philippine independence the Filipinos massacred, raped and cannibalized tens of thousands of Moro civilizations since the 1960’s with American support.

      It is not suprising that Americans would try to project southeast asian Islam as pacifist, in order to subvert Moro resistance.

      What kind of Filipino cannibal wouldn’t like victims that don’t resist being massacred, raped, and eaten.

      • MKG says

        Sep 7, 2015 at 3:10 am

        Moro history is an interesting read. Funny thing though, none of it mentions cannibalism, especially in the numbers you are presenting. Tens of thousands murdered, raped and eaten since the 1960’s? Someone surely would have said something and the UN would have gone mad. Didn’t the MNLF make a treaty with the Philippinos? Was there a clause in that treaty ensuring the Philippinos would not eat the Moros? Perhaps the MILF thought the MNLF were signing up to be a banquet and decided to save their own skins.

        Cannibalism in the Philippines went hand in hand with headhunting. The forced conversion of the Philippinos by the Spaniards during the 1600’s (which I’m sure did not go very smoothly) marked the beginning of the end for cannibalism. However, headhunting remained quite popular for some time. Personally, I had learned that on some islands you do not go outside town limits without your sidearm and a sharp machete.

        400 hundred years of warfare for the Moros, and not just against Americans and Spaniards. They also had the Chinese and Japanese to contend with. Conversion to islam didn’t exactly go smoothly either.

        Try again Mazo

      • Kepha says

        Sep 7, 2015 at 9:23 am

        Sorry, Mazo. The think piece authors I mentioned were not planning to use the Uighurs against dear old 妈妈唐山, but because they were ignorant, plain and simple–as well as steeped in a neo-Marxist intellectual culture that sees any theism as a useless and meaningless epiphenomenon masking sinister class interests at worst and ignorance at best. Hence, when an Evangelical right in America rallied behind Reagan and an Islamic blowup in Iran caught all of our “smart” people with their pants down about their ankles, all sorts of extreme and downright silly memes were pumped into American discourse.

        Maybe I’ll expand this later.

    • Garegin says

      Sep 7, 2015 at 6:13 am

      Before the advent of modernism, only a handful of Christians could be consider non-fundamentalist. Fundamentalism is not about being violent or hateful. It’s about taking fundamental teachings seriously.
      There are many pacifists who would be considered fundamentalists. The issue here is that Islam is intrsincly militaristic. So people who take it seriously would be militaristic too. The contrast between the early Muslims (who according to Spencer probably were not even Muslims until the 690s) and early Christians is shocking. They went on raids killing unbelievers, raping captives, looting and kidnapping for ransom. Where did we hear that before?
      99% percent of Muslims in the West don’t know the basic layout of early Muslim history, so obviously they think ISIS is un-Islamic. Nope, they are not. Just like ISIS the early Muslims even killed other Muslims for being too weak in their convictions.

      • voegelinian says

        Sep 8, 2015 at 10:10 am

        “The issue here is that Islam is intrsincly militaristic. So people who take it seriously would be militaristic too…”

        Garegin forgot the crucial other half of Islam: not only militaristic, but also mendacious — that is, deceitful, employing any permutation of deceit (whether taqiyya, kitman, muda’rat, tawriya, taysir, darura, or muruna) in order to advance the stealth jihad which is only a necessary strategy for Muslims when they are in a context of weakness vis-a-vis a stronger enemy.

        Thus our problem of ensuring our safety against Muslims involves the complciation that innumerable Muslims who do not seem to “take seriously” their Islam are also a potential danger. Thus this whole Kreeftian discussion of Islamic “piety” and “fundamentalism” is not only beside the point, it tends to reinforce our Western TMOE meme (the only problem is the Tiny Minority of Extremists, not the vast majority of “decent moms and pops” (pace Bush) Who Just Wanna Have a Sandwich (pace Ben Affleck).

  13. mgoldberg says

    Sep 6, 2015 at 8:45 pm

    A well considered article. I do take some exception to the notion ” In Biblical terms, this can also be termed Pharisaism, holding to the letter of the law while denying the heart of it.”

    This is christological bias towards Torah, Talmud judaism. The author is certainly entitled too his preferences and biases, however, they do not adequately, nor I believe accurately describe those who diligently apply this to their lives. Yes… there are people who have superficial in their practices or as the author assesses: the “correctness disease,” where strictness of observance and proper fulfillment of the externals of Christian life become the focus, to the point of judging others, and ultimately to the exclusion of basic Christian virtues of warmth of heart, forgiveness, and charity towards one’s neighbor.”
    That however has always been the heart of torah judaism, and the mere external fuelilment of certain rituals, rules and appearances is not a symptom of ‘pharisaism’ but of human frailty and hypocrisy.
    That Torah Judaism is a 24/7 practice of principles, faith and rules is evidenced by those myriad practices. The author is free to assess what he wishes, but it is inaccurate to use that phrase.
    The greatness of the sages of Torah, the prophets, all were vigorous proponets of this Torah Judaism and if wishes to forget all of them, that is his prerogative…. it is not mine.

  14. mgoldberg says

    Sep 6, 2015 at 8:48 pm

    A well considered article. I do take some exception to the notion ” In Biblical terms, this can also be termed Pharisaism, holding to the letter of the law while denying the heart of it.”

    This is christological bias towards Torah, Talmud judaism. The author is certainly entitled too his preferences and biases, however, they do not adequately, nor I believe accurately describe those who diligently apply this to their lives. Yes… there are people who have superficial in their practices or as the author assesses: the “correctness disease,” where strictness of observance and proper fulfillment of the externals of Christian life become the focus, to the point of judging others, and ultimately to the exclusion of basic Christian virtues of warmth of heart, forgiveness, and charity towards one’s neighbor.”
    That however has always been the heart of torah judaism, and the mere external fuelilment of certain rituals, rules and appearances is not a symptom of ‘pharisaism’ but of human frailty and hypocrisy.
    That Torah Judaism is a 24/7 practice of principles, faith and rules is evidenced by those myriad practices. The author is free to assess what he wishes, but it is inaccurate to use that phrase.
    The greatness of the sages of Torah, the prophets, all were vigorous proponets of this Torah Judaism and if the author wishes to forget all of them, that is his prerogative…. it is not mine.

  15. Jay Boo says

    Sep 6, 2015 at 11:52 pm

    Shameless Muslims refer to Jesus in their book.
    How dare they refer to Jesus Christ in their vile book that condones child sex-slaves and every other vice.
    How dare they?

    • Azacque says

      Sep 7, 2015 at 12:24 am

      Muslims recognize that Jesus lived and was a prophet, nothing more. Probably Satan’s attempt to muddy God’s word.

      • gravenimage says

        Sep 7, 2015 at 1:08 am

        Azacque wrote:

        Muslims recognize that Jesus lived and was a prophet, nothing more
        ……………………..

        It’s *much* worse than that, Azacque–the Muslim “Isa” is *nothing* like the Jesus of the Gospels. It is not just that he is no savior–he3 is also not a healer or a peacemaker.

        In fact, the main role of “Jesus” in Islam in the last days is to *kill Christians*.

        • Western Canadian says

          Sep 7, 2015 at 2:35 am

          And his role some 2000 years ago, was to announce that mohammed is coming, mohammed is coming…..

          Isn’t it often said that he actually warned about false prophets, and the anti-Christ?? In that respect, he did announce mohammed would be coming….

        • Azacque says

          Sep 7, 2015 at 9:47 pm

          I would need to read a koran to get that information so you have my thanks. I will not read the koran.
          The next 3 or 4 months should be very interesting.

  16. Jay Boo says

    Sep 7, 2015 at 2:17 am

    The following horror movie was written, directed and produced by Muhammad.
    The star of the movie and is Muhammad.

    The cast includes a stag-prop puppet named Allah who is fed all his lines from the very accomplished ventriloquist, Muhammad.

  17. Western Canadian says

    Sep 7, 2015 at 2:30 am

    There is no equivalency… None at all.

    If a devout Jew or Christian studies and understands their faith, delving into the roots of them, and makes the commitment to live in accordance with what they have learned….. If they have the resources, they will build a hospital or school. If they are of average resources, they will volunteer to assist or in some other way support the hospital or school. This being a living example of their faith.

    If a devout muslim studies and understand their ‘faith’, delving into the roots of them and makes the commitment to live in accordance with what they have learned if they have the opportunity and resources, they will bomb or burn down the hospital or school, hoping that the occupants, the vile and filthy non-muslims, are packed to the rafters. This being a living example of their faith.

    How can anyone possibly confuse the two??

  18. kay says

    Sep 7, 2015 at 7:44 am

    Book: “God Is Not One”
    Forget Karen Armstrong.
    What has Jerusalem to do with Athens? Or the Great Library of Alexandria? Or Nalanda University? Bloody little.
    Socrates and Kalama Sutta and Nichomachean Ethics could help people move into what we call philosophy. Not that Martin Luther was into any of that.
    I’d say that Martin Luther was the archetypal religious fundamentalist.
    Anyway, philosophy is the opposite of religious fundamentalism of any and all kinds.

    • Western Canadian says

      Sep 7, 2015 at 11:45 am

      “Anyway, philosophy is the opposite of religious fundamentalism of any and all kinds.”

      You have made it clear in other posts, that you are an anti-religious bigot. You do not reject religions based on any real short comings, you reject them because they are NOT YOUR PERSONAL BELIEF SYSTEM. You have a right to do so (in any non-islamic state), but showing your ignorance and hatred makes you sound like a preprogrammed, hard wired muslim. Just another bigot.

      • kay says

        Sep 10, 2015 at 11:49 pm

        1) Re: “you are an anti-religious bigot”
        ——————
        Ans: Which would explain why I have two legal bookcases filled with Hindu, Buddhist, 3HO Sikh and Taoist books. And some Japanese Shinto and Native American and so forth… I am a real and licensed theologian.

        Books are my religion. So are wizardry, ‘n rock and roll.

        2) Re: “You do not reject religions based on any real short comings”
        ——————–
        Ans: I have on social media publicly rejected Islam over eighty ( 80 ) times on the basis of Andrew Bostom’s books. Which come to over 1490 pages of evidence. I use Bostom to hammer Islamist apologists all over the map.

        Re: “showing your ignorance and hatred”
        ——————-
        Can’t afford those, as they are primary obstacles for consciousness-raising work, inner or outer. Much of my time is spent building cultural bridges.
        As the Dalai Lama said “Love is the real protection.”

        My dharma is universal human rights and philosophy ( e.g. Locke, Mill, Nichomachean Ethics, Nagarjuna ).

        The Dalai Lama ( world class religious scholar, philosopher and humanitarian ) wrote some good books, including this one on universal ethics: “Beyond Religion: Ethics for a Whole World”. ( Also good: “How to See Yourself As You Really Are” and “How to Practice”. )

        And I push a lot of mantra.
        Remembrance Guru Rinpoche 45 Minute version

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