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Pope Francis: “We know that no religion is immune from forms of individual delusion or ideological extremism”

Sep 24, 2015 1:10 pm By Robert Spencer

Gary Emerling of U.S. News and World Report thinks he has discovered a double standard: “Obama’s comments were criticized as ‘offensive,’ ‘wrongheaded’ and detached from present-day reality. Of course, it’s more politically acceptable to criticize the president then the pope – time will tell if Francis’ remarks draw a similar response.”

Happy to oblige, Gary: the Pope’s comments are offensive, wrongheaded, and detached from present-day reality.

Where today are the Christians who are guilty of “ideological extremism” that moves them to “violent conflict, hatred and brutal atrocities”? Where are there mobs of Christian “extremists” lynching innocent Muslims for perceived “blasphemy,” turning mosques into churches, and forcing Muslims to submit to them and pay them a special tax?

There is an escalating Muslim persecution of Christians that makes the Pope’s moral equivalence at best, disastrously out of focus. At best. Do the suffering Christians not warrant any consideration at all? Any realistic discussion of what has happened and is happening to them? Does the Pope not have any responsibility to speak out realistically and honestly about them and why they are being persecuted? Do those who say he does immediately by doing so put themselves outside of the Church? Are Catholics so in awe of his position they will not oppose him to his face when he stands condemned (cf. Galatians 2:11)? Do they really think God values blind sycophancy over standing for the truth even against the hierarchy?

Pope Francis Congress

“Pope Francis Just Echoed Obama’s ‘Offensive’ Prayer Breakfast Remarks,” by Gary Emerling, U.S. News and World Report, September 24, 2015:

While delivering the first address from a pontiff to a joint meeting of Congress on Thursday, Pope Francis touched on topics ranging from the plight of immigrants to climate change and the death penalty….

“Our world is increasingly a place of violent conflict, hatred and brutal atrocities, committed even in the name of God and of religion. We know that no religion is immune from forms of individual delusion or ideological extremism. This means that we must be especially attentive to every type of fundamentalism, whether religious or of any other kind. A delicate balance is required to combat violence perpetrated in the name of a religion, an ideology or an economic system, while also safeguarding religious freedom, intellectual freedom and individual freedoms.”The remarks echo those delivered – albeit with more explicit historical references – by President Barack Obama at the National Prayer Breakfast in February.

“Lest we get on our high horse and think this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ. In our home country, slavery and Jim Crow all too often was justified in the name of Christ … So this is not unique to one group or one religion. There is a tendency in us, a sinful tendency that can pervert and distort our faith.”

Obama’s comments were criticized as “offensive,” “wrongheaded” and detached from present-day reality. Of course, it’s more politically acceptable to criticize the president then the pope – time will tell if Francis’ remarks draw a similar response.

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Filed Under: Catholic Church, Featured, moral equivalence, willful ignorance Tagged With: Pope Francis


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Comments

  1. Michael Copeland says

    Sep 24, 2015 at 1:21 pm

    Say a religion has the instruction “Kill non-members wherever you find them”, and that instruction is obeyed.
    Is that “extremism”?
    Is that “fundamentalism”?
    Or is it (thanks, Allen West) “doing exactly what this book says”?

    • Celtic Sword says

      Sep 25, 2015 at 6:54 am

      SEE how pope Francis’ words are often misconstrued:
      http://oi61.tinypic.com/e7cc1x.jpg

      • TruthWFree says

        Sep 25, 2015 at 10:43 am

        Misconstrued? His leanings are pretty darn obvious to me. He should be preaching that Jesus Christ is the ONLY WAY to the Father unless he doesn’t believe that. Pretty fed up with his outreach to Islam, Satan’s religion.

        • dlbrand says

          Sep 25, 2015 at 12:09 pm

          The Pope, by his clear, elected willful blindness to Islamic doctrine, just like the kicker on a football team plays his part to put needed points on the board, the Pope is doing his part to force Islam up to be, at least for a while, on the same level as other regarded religions.

          In so doing, the Pope is guilty of propagating falsehood, evil, and the very spirit of anti-Christ. In brief.

        • Analuzia says

          Nov 16, 2015 at 10:37 pm

          TruthWFree and dlbrand seem to know a whole lot about satan but NOTHING at all about Islam! Perhaps they want to follow Jesus’s advice and pluck out their own eyes or chop off their own hands and feet, as they seem to be a cause for scandal in their midst? -(Gospel of Matthew 18:8) – Or maybe they want to sell their clothes to buy swords (like Jesus says in the Gospel of Luke 22:36) to prove that Christianity is the “religion of peace”? If The Word of God requires interpretation in The Torah and The Gospel, then why would it also not require it in The AlQuran? Could it be because (self-proclaimed) -illiterate- “Christian”; U.S.A’s “uncle-daddy-cousin Billy-Bob-Bubba” needs to bring down a few buildings and plant a few bombs to blame the Muslims as pretext to persuade the Civilized Nations Of The World to let him try to invade Arab (mostly Muslim) Countries and steal their oil?

      • TH says

        Sep 25, 2015 at 10:54 am

        Many bishops and priests feel the need to explain away some of what he says. This never happened with previous popes, so there does seem to be a problem.

    • TruthWFree says

      Sep 25, 2015 at 10:38 am

      Doing exactly what Satan’s Quran says…that is if Muhammad did not lie about getting revelations from his allah god. Jesus said that Satan was the father of all lies. The Quran lies against the Gospels written 700 years before the Quran by saying that Jesus never said He is the Son of God and that Jesus did not die on the cross. The allah god is Satan…logically concluded.

  2. wildjew says

    Sep 24, 2015 at 1:37 pm

    CNN reported (Rush Limbaugh mentioned this): …Referring to turmoil tearing apart the Middle East, Francis warned the world was increasingly a place of fundamentalism and “brutal atrocities” sometimes committed in the name of religion, but he warned against a simplistic world view pitting good versus evil or “the righteous and the sinners…..”

    Maybe this is why the pope embraces Islam as a religion of peace, ‘Palestinian’ savages and ‘Palestinian’ statehood; Obama’s nuclear agreement with the murderous, criminal regime in Tehran. He believes a simplistic world view pitting good verses evil is wrong. This is the position his predecessor (Eugenio Pacelli, Pope Pius XII) took during the second world war when the Vatican was neutral between the Allied powers and the Axis powers.

    • spot on says

      Sep 24, 2015 at 4:29 pm

      The world is in WW III and doesn’t know it. Washington will be the last to notice because they are too busy. Ruthless powers are on the move. It may take years to develop fully but it will if nothing is done.

      Pope Francis doesn’t know what he is doing outside of religion and I’m not sure he is an expert inside his religion.

      • Neil Jennison says

        Sep 24, 2015 at 5:20 pm

        Too right1 Pope Francis is a disgrace…bur probably predicted by scripture.

        As a traditionalist Catholic this Pope has worked hard to destroy my Faith.

        I am sure he feels he has done a great job bringing back to the Church, those who reject the teachings of Christ.

        Well done Pope Francis……I am sure you are proud of papacy.

        • Peggy says

          Sep 25, 2015 at 1:32 am

          At best he is senile.
          They should elect younger people to the position of Pope.

        • Jay Boo says

          Sep 25, 2015 at 10:06 am

          Neil Jennison said,
          “As a traditionalist Catholic this Pope has worked hard to destroy my Faith. ”

          “Destroy your Faith”
          Your phrasing is not very clear Neil.
          At first glance it appears that you have lost your faith which would mean that you were actually a non-practicing atheist Christian in name only all along if your faith could be so easily destroyed.

        • Rev g says

          Sep 25, 2015 at 10:26 am

          Many a Catholic has lost faith in the ways of the church without becoming atheist.

        • Jay Boo says

          Sep 25, 2015 at 12:24 pm

          @Rev g
          All Christians are reminded not to put their faith in any human including ministers and priests and popes.

        • Rev g says

          Sep 25, 2015 at 12:41 pm

          The pope is supposed to speak for Christ. He is Christ vicarious.
          Regardless, losing faith in him or Catholicism does not absolutely create an atheist.

        • Jay Boo says

          Sep 26, 2015 at 2:11 am

          Rev g said,
          “The pope is supposed to speak for Christ. He is Christ vicarious.
          Regardless, losing faith in him or Catholicism does not absolutely create an atheist.”

          I do not believe that Rev g could possibly be — that stupid — to write such nonsense and believe it.

        • rev g says

          Sep 26, 2015 at 10:12 am

          “The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter’s successor, ‘is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful.’

          ‘For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise.” [Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition (Washington, DC: US Catholic Conference, 1994, 1997) #882.]

          [Definition: “vicar”—in the broadest sense means someone who is authorized to act as a substitute or agent for a superior / compare “vicarious”—serving in the place of someone else; assuming the position, place, or office of another person]”

          I guess you missed the memo. And a lot of your catechism classes. And your reading in the NT.

        • rev g says

          Sep 26, 2015 at 10:17 am

          Vicarious Filii Dei

      • somehistory says

        Sep 24, 2015 at 7:20 pm

        There is video of him saying that “God is not a Divine Being” and the pope evidently believes in the big bang and evolution. He also said that atheists will go to heaven if they do good works.

        I don’t know any Catholics that believe those things. I feel bad for any who think they need him to be pleasing to our Creator. But from the news coverage, the crowds seem to love him anyway.

        • Timothy says

          Sep 24, 2015 at 11:18 pm

          Good works do not equal heaven. Jesus is the propitiation for our sins. The Bible also states clearly that only God is good and can do good. Good works done without God are not good works. (I’m sorry the reference fails me right now – this is in the Scripture written by Paul and also extrapolated at length 1500 years later by Martin Luther.)

          This pope may be Roman Catholic but he is no catholic.

        • Jay Boo says

          Sep 25, 2015 at 10:13 am

          HUH???

          Your proselytizing about good works “From the Vedic perspective” makes absolutely no sense to support your conclusion about who understands Christianity or not.
          —————-
          AJ Liberphile said.
          “From the Vedic perspective, good works get you good karma and entry (rebirth) to the heavenly planets”

        • sencit says

          Sep 25, 2015 at 10:24 am

          The Bible says:
          “By grace are you saved, through faith – not of works, lest any man should boast, it is the gift of God”.

        • TH says

          Sep 25, 2015 at 11:02 am

          The Church teaches the primacy of the conscience, but everyone has a duty to inform and form his conscience. There is what is called an “invencibly erroneous conscience”. If a person sincerely thinks that God doesn’t exist and is totally convinced that He did not create the world and tries to live a good life as best he can, then according to traditional Catholic teaching he can be saved, that is go to heaven. Of course, we cannot judge regarding such people, as to whether the atheist is totally sincere etc. St. Thomas Aquinas, the greatest of all Catholic theologians, stated that if one is absolutely convinced in conscience that he has a duty to destroy the Catholic Church, and is thus invencibly erroneous, if he does not try to to do it, then he commits a mortal sin. Pope Francis did not invent the idea that sincere atheists or others who don’t believe in Christianity can be saved and reach heaven. It is traditional Catholic teaching.

          I recomend that you consult the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is a compendium of all that the Church teaches. It is available in Catholic bookstores or in Internet, if you want to know what the Church teaches.

        • spot on says

          Sep 25, 2015 at 1:11 pm

          The meaning of thoughts recorded 800 years ago by Aquinas and the other excellent thinkers were all well thought and very thorough but the same thoughts written today by the same people may be far different. For example, in those days the devil was considered a real person who spread disease and did evil things to people. Bad people were feared not only because they were bad but for fear of catching a dreaded devil disease and die or see your children and family die from disease. Real witches were also understood to exist in real terms and feared for the same reasons.

          Today, modern medicine has changed the thought process. However, many of us still have common sense. When the Pope tells us that people with the same philosophy as Pol Pot, Stalin, Castro, Mao, and others like them, and who have killed 100 million people in the past 100 years (and very substantial numbers of these were Christians), when the Pope says that people like this have a valid point of view from a Catholic perspective, our common sense tells us… no way. The Pope also wants us to take in every illegal alien in the world…no way. He wants everyone to be a pure socialist (like Stalin?)…no way. Global Warming energy tax for everyone to enrich Washington and impoverish everyone else…no way. Support Obama and his love of Radical Muslims…no way. Islam is good…no way.

          My common sense tells me that if someone doesn’t know Christ, or sees Christ as an enemy, why would they want to join him in heaven when they die? Why would He want them there? Noble atheists who lived a good life would surely not deserve punishment but they also may not want to see heaven. The only way to know what happens with all this for sure is to die. In the mean time, we all need to use our common sense. We see Islam for what it is and the Pope cannot change the Islamic mindset to kill us. He can also not change their 1400 year history of barbarianism, war, and killing.

    • Celtic Sword says

      Sep 25, 2015 at 6:55 am

      SEE how pope Francis’ words are often misconstrued:
      http://oi61.tinypic.com/e7cc1x.jpg

    • Jack Gordon says

      Sep 25, 2015 at 10:16 am

      Your history of WW II and the Vatican’s role in it are faulty to say the least. There is plenty of good evidence that Pius XII opposed the Axis with the means at his disposal. The current pope is extremely naive about Mohammedanism and indulged goo-goo liberal talk when before the US Congress, no doubt about that. But it unnecessarily muddies the waters to impute this kind of nonsense approach to Eugenio Pacelli,

  3. AnneCrockett says

    Sep 24, 2015 at 1:43 pm

    “Do they really think God values blind sycophancy over standing for the truth even against the hierarchy?”

    Yes, yes, yes they do!

    I am only barely tolerant of 70’s Catholics like Bishop Gumbleton, but look how quickly the church acted when he went against the church’s POLITICAL position on whether the statute of limitations for child molestation should be extended in Ohio.

    On the other hand, a guy like McManus can get lugged for hit and run drunk driving, and the hierarchy’s position is “Nothing to see here, folks, move along.” If he had not been caught, he’d havve never taken responsibility.

    • Celtic Sword says

      Sep 25, 2015 at 6:55 am

      SEE how pope Francis’ words are often misconstrued:
      http://oi61.tinypic.com/e7cc1x.jpg

  4. wildjew says

    Sep 24, 2015 at 1:50 pm

    “Are Catholics so in awe of his position they will not oppose him to his face when he stands condemned (cf. Galatians 2:11)? Do they really think God values blind sycophancy over standing for the truth even against the hierarchy?”

    We have Sean Hannity and Laura Ingraham (both Catholic) syndicated here on our powerful / regional radio program. Hannity seems to be much less in awe of his position than Ingraham in my opinion. If it were Israel’s Chief Rabbi making common cause with this terrible man in the White House, with the murderous Iranian regime and the “Palestinian” savages, I would be screaming to high heaven condemning him.

    • Alarmed Pig Farmer says

      Sep 24, 2015 at 2:41 pm

      That fact that there is no Chief Rabbi is probably a good thing. If there were, we’d no doubt have a Rabbi Rank on the Judeo side of Judeo-Christianity. That would be too much.

      • Alarmed Pig Farmer says

        Sep 24, 2015 at 3:30 pm

        Mean to type Chief Rabbi Frank.

        • wildjew says

          Sep 24, 2015 at 3:56 pm

          APF, I believe there are Chief Rabbis in Israel (one or two) and sometimes they create some controversy. A late Chief Rabbi (a Torah scholar) once rendered an opinion that it could be permissible to cede Jewish land to the Arabs (to Islam) if it will bring peace. I spoke out against him for that opinion because it is clearly at odds with what Moses taught about the land of Israel. Land should never be given up for any reason.

  5. Joseph says

    Sep 24, 2015 at 1:52 pm

    The Pope is to be a shepherd of his flock(sheep). He should not be letting his flock be slaughtered by the wolves(Islam).
    The Pope obviously is forgetting and he wants us to forget what JESUS CHRIST has said.
    John 10:11-18
    I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. …

    • Peggy says

      Sep 25, 2015 at 1:44 am

      So in plain English, this Pope is a deceiver.
      That’s quite obvious to a lot of us but it seems millions of Catholics don’t see it. I can understand people in countries where they are mostly poor and uneducated but so many in the US! Can’t they see that he is leading them to slaughter? By not making sure that all Catholic churches tell their perishiners about the danger of Islam he is hindering recruitment for the army of God needed to fight.
      Sadly, the Pope is not alone in this.
      I don’t see head of any other religions talking to their flock either. Archbiship of Canterbury is just as much of a traitor. The Queen as a defence of the Church of England is not saying anything either, not even to C of E bishops to instruct their priests.
      Orthodox Patriachs seem quiet too as are Rabbis and the Dalai Lama. Has the Dalai Lama said anything?
      The only ones talking to their people are the Imams. Scary times.

  6. NatetheGreat says

    Sep 24, 2015 at 2:24 pm

    Hey all I assumed he was talking about Muslim Extremism. Not anything else.

  7. Benedict says

    Sep 24, 2015 at 2:26 pm

    I am a practising Catholic. I sometimes feel the present Pope is living in the 60’s or 70’s.

  8. Alarmed Pig Farmer says

    Sep 24, 2015 at 2:38 pm

    He won’t talk about the mass murder and enslavement of Christians in the Levant and elsewhere, a real crisis, but he won’t shut up about climate change or man-caused global warming or whatever the hell they’re calling it today, a fake crisis, one that doesn’t really exist, except as a man-caused fake crisis. And, for dessert, he’ll serve up a plate of cookie falsehoods about how compassionate socialism is, when in fact it has consigned untold billions to poverty and even starvation.

    Pope Frank, as a Catholic I am ashamed of you and all you no account buddies over at the Holy See, and wish that you would go back to your Palace of Decline and leave us alone. Oh, and arrange to have your homeland Argentina to pay its debts, maybe deliver a stern lecture to Kirchner on that.

    • Peggy says

      Sep 25, 2015 at 1:47 am

      Maybe he’s just too old and tired to give a damn. It’s too hard having to deal with threats when you’re that age.

  9. Wellington says

    Sep 24, 2015 at 2:41 pm

    This Pope annoys the hell out of me. I simply don’t like him and I don’t respect him. In fact, with his ignorance about something like capitalism and his moral equivalency thinking as best illustrated by his continuing exculpation of Islam he has already done a good bit of harm. His predecessor, Benedict XVI, was a far more impressive, worthy and admirable man. Easily so.

  10. Holy Prophet APF says

    Sep 24, 2015 at 3:20 pm

    Speaking of ideological extremism and delusion, I just learned the very sad and tragic news that 700 Moslems were stampeded in the crush of Hajis in Mecca. Apparently some of the pilgrims became overly excited and one thing lead to another. This whole mess invokes memory of my galloping and stampeding herd of Unicorns running through green fields. But there are no green fields in Arabia, the land there is bereft. Only the bodies of defunct Moslems are planted there, and they don’t grow.

    So, to you Unicorns out there, don’t school up, but if you must, let’s keep some spacing between each other and don’t go to fast. World takeover is a team sport, and as my high school football coach used to say there is no “I” in Team.

  11. Rev. Bill Romansky says

    Sep 24, 2015 at 3:21 pm

    This from the illegal Jesuit, godless Marxist Pope.

    • Celtic Sword says

      Sep 24, 2015 at 4:21 pm

      Anti-Catholic hate from you.

  12. RT says

    Sep 24, 2015 at 4:33 pm

    Catholics and most orthodox Protestants agree about a lot of things at the heart of Christianity.
    The Office of the Pope is NOT one of those….neither do all Catholics.

    Even Northern Ireland in the recent past pales in comparison to what’s going on in the Middle East today. Is the Southern Baptist Church really living in fear of being attacked by the local Catholic Church or vice versa? Will the Methodists firebomb the Lutheran church because of some doctrinal disagreement? This is talking almost in a non reality way….just highly politicized platitudes that pander to a certain worldview but don’t seek the truth.

    “Therefore, to resume, I establish: (1) That Jesus has given to His apostles the same power that He gave to St. Peter. (2) That the apostles never recognized in St. Peter the vicar of Jesus Christ and the infallible doctor of the church. (3) That St. Peter never thought of being pope, and never acted as if he were pope…I conclude victoriously, with history, with reason, with logic, with good sense, and with a Christian conscience, that Jesus Christ did not confer any supremacy on St. Peter and that the bishops of Rome did not become sovereigns of the church, but only confiscating one by one all the rights of the episcopate.” (This, along with many arguments against papal infallibility, was said by Bishop Joseph Strossmayer in his speech before the Vatican Council in 1870).

    http://www.whiterobedmonks.org/mschema.html

    • Kepha says

      Sep 24, 2015 at 7:51 pm

      RT: I know about Strossmeyer, Dollinger, and others who ultimately formed the Old Catholic communion in protest against Vatican I’s promulgation of Papal infallibility.

      Most Protestants accept that we can still hear the voice of the apostles–in the New Testament, where their word of witness was preserved for all time.

      • Jay Boo says

        Sep 25, 2015 at 10:19 am

        Too much foo foo is made about Papal infallibility.

        It does not refer to infallibility in everything but, only with respect to Catholic teaching..

  13. Angemon says

    Sep 24, 2015 at 4:37 pm

    The remarks echo those delivered – albeit with more explicit historical references – by President Barack Obama at the National Prayer Breakfast in February

    Translation: he needs to model and reword things in order to seem they’re both on the same wavelength. I don’t see a) Christians going ISIS on non-Christians and justifying it with the bible, like Obama apparently does and b) the Pope talking about the Crusades, like Obama did.

    • Rev g says

      Sep 24, 2015 at 5:00 pm

      More importantly, any Christian “going ISIS” is going to have a difficult time finding scripture advocating his actions.
      This is why we hear so much about how islamists misinterpret or corrupt the quran. It is not possible to say such commands are not there.
      Big difference between acting violent contrary to scripture and violence committed with the full support of your holy book. Nobody seems to want to mention that.

  14. Sam says

    Sep 24, 2015 at 4:57 pm

    Pope=Obama=Idiot

    • VRWC member77 says

      Sep 24, 2015 at 6:44 pm

      Agree 100%. I absolutely despise this man.

  15. Peter Charles says

    Sep 24, 2015 at 5:17 pm

    We need more CO2 nott lkess. It is the Sun and its’ energy cycles that are the primary drivers of climate change, modified by the gravatational effects of Saturn and Jupiter. The retained solar energy is retained primarily by Water Vapor 95%, then CO2 at about 3.8%, all other gasses, about 1.2%. If we eliminated all hyman created CO2 from the atmosphere, climate would not change ever a little. The Pope should stick to the religion of Roman Catholic dogma and stay out of science when he has done no due dilligence to see that the ideas he spouts have a grounding in reality.

  16. More Ham Ed says

    Sep 24, 2015 at 6:08 pm

    The “they do it do” mentality is a real sign of a lack of intelligence.

    It’s also a real sign of attempting to prop-up and whitewash islam.

    No other “religion” has a 10,000 to 1 (or worse) violence ratio.

    The unholy ko ‘ran.

    No other religious text teaches CURRENT DAY followers to act violently.

    26955 DEADLY terror attacks since 9/11.

    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

  17. somehistory says

    Sep 24, 2015 at 7:33 pm

    Whether the words that are used to make what moslems are doing to Christians all over the world as not so very bad…because Christianity….are coming from o’s lips are those of the pope…they are all wrong and said for the sole purpose of keeping up the image’s facade.

    But you can’t make a saint out of a murdering, raper of children who lies in order to gain power, nor can any who try to copy him, imitate him…or even work to emulate (how could anyone be worse than the fake prophet?) him qualify for *sainthood*. This is what the words of attempting to equate islam with true faith are all about.

  18. Westman says

    Sep 24, 2015 at 7:55 pm

    The Pope’s call for “God bless America” in his congressional address will further cement the conquest of Rome as an objective of Daesh.

    We’re willing to accept the blessings of the Pope yet have concern that he is naive about the repercussions when it comes to his thinking Muslim immigrants intend to become patriotic Italians.

    • Wellington says

      Sep 24, 2015 at 8:26 pm

      The present Pope’s naivety on sundry matters, examples being capitalism and Islam, are at the heart of the problem with this Pope. Put less kindly, the damage that a powerful fool can do often times has no limits.

      And for all those Catholics out there, since you believe Roman Catholicism is the true faith, what in the Hell was your God thinking to allow such a fool as Francis to become pontiff? Being the agnostic that I am, though still having a regard for the Catholic faith and the institution of the papacy, I would be most interested in any Catholic’s “explanation” of Francis.

      Oh yes I would and I can only hope it will be beyond such platitudes as “God works in mysterious ways” or “we have the free will to make mistakes.” No, it will have to be better than these. Please, no excuses masquerading as arguments.

      • Westman says

        Sep 24, 2015 at 8:45 pm

        He’s not my Pope, Wellington, I’m agnostic. I meant we Americans can use blessings from anywhere.

        On matters of economy, Francis seems to think like Carl Marx, which thinking has already been proven to be in such opposition to human nature that it can never succeed. Capitalism, with reasonable compassion, works.

        • Wellington says

          Sep 24, 2015 at 9:27 pm

          No criticism of you meant, Westman, but only of the doofus presently in charge of that remnant of the Papal States that goes by the name of Vatican City. Damn, where’s a Julius II when you need him?

      • voegelinian says

        Sep 25, 2015 at 2:00 am

        As I noted on my blog back in March of 2013, quoting a report cited by Debbie Schlussel, Pope Francis while still cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio got along famously with the Muslim community of Argentina:

        Argentine Muslims have welcomed the election of Argentine cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio as the head of the Roman Cathoilic Churhc. In an interview with Buenosairesherald.com, Sheij Mohsen Ali and CIRA Secretary General Dr.Sumer Noufouri praised Pope Francis’s “pro-dialogue” nature.

        “He always showed himself as a friend of the Islamic community. He visited the At-Tauhid Mosque (located) in the neighborhood of Floresta and the Arab-Argentine Ali Ibn Abi Talib School strengthening our relations”, the Director of the House for the Diffusion of Islam Sheik Mohsen Ali said…

        Also, if that weren’t enough to move the reader to reach for a bucket for his waves of nausea and gag reflex dry heaves:

        Considering ties between the CIRA and now Pope Francis “excellent”, Dr. Noufouri [Secretary General of the Islamic Center of the Republic of Argentina (CIRA)] explained that the one-decade relation has helped to build Christian-Muslim dialogue, something “really significant in the history of monotheistic relations in Argentina”. A “joint work”, CIRA head added, “that we have never given up on”.

        If that isn’t bad enough, it gets worse. A report from The Telegraph shows that Cardinal Bergoglio took precisely the wrong stand with regard to Pope Benedict’s 2005 famous lecture at Regensburg that caused worlwide Islamic rage:

        Reacting within days to [Pope Benedict’s lecture], speaking through a spokesman to Newsweek Argentina, then Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio declared his “unhappiness” with the statements, made at the University of Regensburg in Germany, and encouraged many of his subordinates with the Church to do the same.

        “Pope Benedict’s statement don’t reflect my own opinions”, the then Archbishop of Buenos Aires declared. “These statements will serve to destroy in 20 seconds the careful construction of a relationship with Islam that Pope John Paul II built over the last twenty years”.

        http://hesperado.blogspot.com/2013/03/cry-for-me-argentina.html

  19. dlbrand says

    Sep 24, 2015 at 9:00 pm

    “We know that no religion is immune from forms of individual delusion or ideological extremism.”

    Nor is any individual, as you, Sir, demonstrate, in face of Islam and its doctrines, immune to a putrid degree of, at best, willful blindness that speaks of pusillanimity.

    Robert stated: “the Pope’s comments are offensive, wrongheaded, and detached from present-day reality.”

    Indeed.

    • Wellington says

      Sep 24, 2015 at 9:23 pm

      I second, dlbrand, your seconding of Robert Spencer. This present pope is a moral equivalency disaster. I miss Benedict XVI. His was a sane, brave and informed voice emanating from the Vatican. No such voice now.

      Hope you are doing well and staying sane in this increasingly insane and goofy world.

      • mortimer says

        Sep 24, 2015 at 10:05 pm

        Fanatical religionists are generally harmless until they take up arms to enforce their will. While vigilantism and violence are NORMATIVE ISLAM, they are precluded by Christ’s command to ‘Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s.’ The framers of the US constitution rightly understood this saying as a separation of church and state.

        Islam unites the mosque and state, thus creating religious fascism. Western Europe has experienced such religious fascism whenever believers seized and held political power…from Torquemada to Oliver Cromwell to the fascist Croatian, Serbian and Bulgarian clergy who supported death camps to the shameful clergy in Rwanda who supported genocide.

        Islam is ONLY the unification of mosque and state. Sharia law and its normative vigilantism imposes violence on all Muslims to impose Sharia on everyone.

        • Western Canadian says

          Sep 26, 2015 at 5:33 pm

          “The framers of the US constitution rightly understood this saying as a separation of church and state.”

          I really wish people who should know better would quite trying to pretend that any such concept in any way is to be found in the US constitution.. IT IS NOT THERE. Period.

          What is in it, is protection of churches from the state, and a prohibition against a federal government favoured and enforced church. You have to try pretty hard to turn that into ‘separation’.

      • dlbrand says

        Sep 25, 2015 at 1:54 am

        Indeed, Well. And the same to you, my Friend.

        dl

  20. Kepha says

    Sep 24, 2015 at 9:05 pm

    As resident Christian “fundamentalist”, I suppose I ought to weigh in.

    I actually rejoice that this Pope is playing the moral equivalence game by saying Uncle Kepha, by virtue of being an “***UGH!***Fundamentalist!” Christian, is morally equivalent to the members of ISIS, and thus pandering to the cultured despisers of both of us.

    “Woe unto you when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets!” (Luke 6:26). That’s a dominical saying, Your Hooliganess.

  21. mortimer says

    Sep 24, 2015 at 9:52 pm

    Pope Francis lives in a theological bubble similar to the Popemobile.

  22. Beagle says

    Sep 25, 2015 at 12:19 am

    The last time Christians behaved like militant Muslims do in 2015 was the 30 Years War which ended in 1648. So, no, all religions are not prone to this kind of extremism unless one is willing to project back several centuries.

    What the 30 Years War did to Europe the regional sectarian war extant now is doing to the Middle East and Africa, and perhaps soon Europe and elsewhere. Unfortunately I do not anticipate a Muslim Treaty of Westphalia.

  23. Ryan Muhammad says

    Sep 25, 2015 at 5:29 am

    Robert, it must be hard for you to have written that since you are Catholic. I admire your commitment to the Word above all else.

  24. duh_swami says

    Sep 25, 2015 at 6:14 am

    Religion…’Everyone knows more about it than you do, give them a chance and they will tell you all about it’…Rev Hensley…
    All religions create religious supremacist bigots…The Pope,Rasool Obama, and some posters here, are not exempt…

    • Western Canadian says

      Sep 26, 2015 at 5:27 pm

      “All religions create religious supremacist bigots”

      Wrong again. Supremacist bigots, especially low church atheists, are an excellent example of how such critters will attach themselves to ANY belief system. Even when they would be in opposition to the basics of the belief system… Christianity (I’m not one, by the way) in particular.

  25. Dr John says

    Sep 25, 2015 at 6:28 am

    I, as a devout Catholic, and, indeed, also those of my many evangelical Christian friends who have read the Popes remarks, are deeply offended. These remarks are based on crass stupidity. Was it “fundamentalist” Baptists or Adventists or even “fundamentalist” Catholics who destroyed all the lives in the World Trade Center? Is it Methodists or Congregationalists who behead children and rape women as required by their evil “religion”? OF COURSE NOT.

    The Pope should openly apologize to all Christians everywhere, or suffer even more Catholics leaving the Church and joining the ranks of the ever growing evangelical movement, who, at least, know the truth about Islam and that Allah IS Satan.

    • Celtic Sword says

      Sep 25, 2015 at 6:46 am

      I suspect you are NOT a “devout Catholic” who is loyal to the Vatican. I suspect you to be a member of the schismatic SSPX or even – God forbid! – a sedevacantist…

      I think what pope Francis was referring to was the rigid mindset of some Christians who hate homosexuals etc when in fact the Catholic church does NOT hate anyone, but does call for anyone who sins to be converted away from sin. Hate the sin, not the sinner…

  26. Celtic Sword says

    Sep 25, 2015 at 6:55 am

    SEE how pope Francis’ words are often misconstrued:
    http://oi61.tinypic.com/e7cc1x.jpg

  27. Vincent Amoroso says

    Sep 25, 2015 at 9:33 am

    Doesn’t seem odd to anyone that the leader of an institution, which has denied the proven theories on evolution, now excepts the unproven science of man-made climate change?

    • Joseph says

      Sep 25, 2015 at 9:13 pm

      @ Vincent Amoroso,
      PROVEN THEORIES on evolution???????

      Just take a minute and look at that statement. Evolution is still a theory, theory is not fact. There is NO hard evidence. Scientists are lying to you. Who pays these scientists and what answers do THEY want and WHY are the questions you should be asking.
      Not a single thing has been disproved in the Bible. Why should GOD start his book out with a lie and expect us to believe everything else is true????

    • Western Canadian says

      Sep 26, 2015 at 5:20 pm

      Just where did the vat deny evolution, and in what form… You’d be amazed at how many biologists and those in related disciplines reject darwinism, but accept other variants.

  28. Western Canadian says

    Sep 25, 2015 at 2:13 pm

    He gives every indication of knowing nothing about any religion, including his own, and even less about the fake religion of islam (RTC).

  29. Screeminmeeme says

    Sep 28, 2015 at 11:16 am

    Pope Francis has said this before. In June while addressing a group of catholics, he said many things that are in conflict with the Bible. ….like……

    ”The Quran and the spiritual teachings contained therein, are just as valid as the Holy Bible.”’…but Jesus said that His Father’s Word is truth…..and that Word is contradicted by the Quran. (John 17:17). Shouldn’t the Pope know that?

    Jehovah God said: Psa 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

    Shouldn’t the Pope have the same regard for Gods Word?

    He also said that Jesus, Jehovah, and Allah were the same God and that because we all worship that same God, ALL FAITHS SHOULD MERGE!

    Shouldn’t the leader of the Roman Catholic Church KNOW that the God of the Bible is a polar opposite of the god of the Quran and differs in every way possible?

    The Bible teaches that Christ gave up His life on the cross so that sinners might have eternal life, while the Quran says that Christ was never crucified. The Quran commands its adherents to kill non-Muslims….considered enemies….. while the Bible tells Christians to love their enemies. HOW THEN can they both be true? (1 Co 15:1-4)

    And the idea of merging Christianity with any other faith so that God’s Truth is contaminated by lies is a frightening specter that could only come from the ”father of lies”, the Devil, who spends all of his time attempting to confuse, deceive, enslave, and destroy humanity by altering God’s Word. The Bible says that God is not the author of confusion and its His unadulterated Truth that sets us free. (1 Co 14;33, John 8: 32,35).

    Anyway, how do you consolidate faiths…..all of which teach various and often conflicting ways to salvation/nirvana/paradise…..when Jesus Christ claimed that HE was the ONLY WAY to the Father? (John 14:7)

    Paul taught…..2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and WHAT COMMUNION HATH LIGHT WITH DARKNESS?

    The Pope said ”…..we are ALL GOD’s CHILDREN, regardless of what we call Him.”’ but the Bible says that only those who trust Christ as Savior are the children of God. (John 1:12)

    While the Pope’s habit of mixing with the hungry crowds, glad-handing and blessing them appears to be Christ-like, its clear his message is from another spirit. Since he professes to follow the God of Truth, Jesus Christ, maybe truth should be more important to him.

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