The Daily Mail is a British paper, and in the British press, “Asian” is the universally-employed code word for “Muslim.” If this British paper is suddenly using the word to refer, as in the American custom, to people from China or Japan, they’re not saying so. It is also possible that the Sacramento police said they were looking for “Asians,” by which they really did mean Chinese or Japanese or Koreans or Southeast Asians, etc., and the Daily Mail is too careless to note the difference in usage.
And so now the plot thickens. Police are insisting this attack had nothing to do with terrorism, but they always do that, no matter what the circumstances. If Spencer Stone was indeed stabbed by Muslims, then the possibility that the stabbing was related to his stopping the jihad attack on the French train cannot be dismissed out of hand.
“French train attack hero Spencer Stone is repeatedly STABBED while defending a female friend as police search for two adult Asian male suspects,” by Chris Spargo and Sophie Jane Evans, Dailymail.com, October 8, 2015 (thanks to Marc):
French train attack hero Spencer Stone was stabbed ‘four times in the chest’ while trying to protect a female friend in Sacramento.
The attack was so violent that police began treating the case as a homicide when they arrived on the scene shortly after 12:45am on Thursday.
Police are now looking for two adult Asian males who fled the scene in a dark Toyota Camry, and said repeatedly that the incident was not a terrorist act.
The 23-year-old U.S. airman 1st class was one of the three Americans who managed to take down a gunman as he opened fire on a Paris-bound train this past August.
CBS News reports he suffered a wound to the heart and the lung and was with a female companion when the stabbing occurred.
He was taken to the UC Davis Medical Center where he is being treated for the serious injuries he received during the assault.
The stabbing happened at 12:45am at the intersection of 21st and K in the city and the crime was so violent that two blocks of the street were shut down.
The owner of a liquor store told CBS Scaremento he has video of the incident and it appears to show a group of men attacking someone in an intersection.
‘They’re technically now considered to be targets,’ said Stone’s father ogf his son, though police say the two suspects did not seem to know who Stone was before or after the attack.
Initially police did not believe that Stone would be able to survive his injuries.
‘It is believed that the victim was out with a group of friends when a physical altercation led to the victim being stabbed multiple times in his upper body,’ police said in a statement.
‘Detectives were called to the scene to assist with the investigation and the victim is currently being treated for what appears to be non-life threatening injuries.’
A man and woman were questioned by police after the attack, but it is not known if they were taken into custody.
Stone was with three female friends and one male friend at the time of the attack.
Police also said; ‘The assault incident is not related to a terrorist act. Assault occurred near a bar, alcohol is believed to be a factor.’…
ich says
may not be terrorism but im betting its a couple of pent
up islamists……so now how do we blame the american ?
Someone mentioned on JihadWatch a while back on
how long before we treat this guy like dirt.
I bet they are correct.
William says
I hope they don’t George Zimmerman him.
Lenny Thetruth says
George Zimmerman was an idiot. Still is, as a matter of fact. He brings problems on himself. He is his own worst enemy.
Spencer Stone is feeling invincible right now. After all the glory, the fame left him feeling “bullet proof” and he let it get into his head. You don’t need to get into a physical altercation over a bar room insult. This was primarily, a bar fight that spilled into the street. Mr. Stone probably thought he was defending the honor of one of the ladies he was with. He is in the military, and he knows not to back down.
Twice, he has escaped death. I hope he does not have to face it again, the same way. He did a brave thing, got away with it, became a hero, but, he is human. We all have physical limitations, and he has yet to learn his.
gravenimage says
Lenny Thetruth wrote:
You don’t need to get into a physical altercation over a bar room insult. This was primarily, a bar fight that spilled into the street. Mr. Stone probably thought he was defending the honor of one of the ladies he was with.
………………………….
I wouldn’t assume this. By some accounts, the assailants did more than insult this woman. If they actually attacked her, then Spencer stone was again being a hero–not some yahoo involved in a bar fight.
gravenimage says
ich wrote:
Someone mentioned on JihadWatch a while back on
how long before we treat this guy like dirt.
I bet they are correct.
………………………………..
Actually, this has not been the case. Spencer Stone and his brave companions who foiled the French train Jihad terror attack have been lauded both officially and unofficially in the Sacramento area.
And local news accounts of this stabbing have almost universally identified Stone as a hero. Here is one such account:
“Train hero Spencer Stone stabbed, in serious condition”
http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article38180571.html
Even the usually egregious Huffington Post refers to him as a hero.
I certainly share your concerns–Anti-Jihadists like Robert Spencer are regularly smeared and are indeed treated like dirt.
So far, at least, these men have been treated like the heroes that they are.
Don McKellar says
What a screwed up world political correctness and fear of jihad has made for us who are not afraid and place truth over political correctness. You have to read newspapers like an old Soviet Pravda propoganda sheet and know the code before you can get to what’s really going on! And that’s when it’s been completely omitted in other news sources.
Katnis says
Interesting. So the British press is reporting an “Asian” suspect and the American press mentions no defining attribute of the suspect. I’m with you. The omission was intentional. Meanwhile, the press is trying to figure out how to “spin” the truth, so as not to appear islamophobic or have CAIR all over them.
Feeling grateful that JW is here to shed light on what is REALLY happening with this case. I think we can all see where this is going.
Richard says
Just so you know, (I’m English) Asian is the word used in England to describe people from the Indian Sub Continent and surrounding area.
Therefore, they are, in fact, describing, most likely, Pakistanis (muslims) who have carried out the attack.
Fact check before you accuse. Thank you
Kathy Brown, Esq. says
I follow the Brit papers all the time since I’m the widow of a [beloved] Brit.
The media-not only print media-ALL use ‘Asians’ to mean ‘muslims’. And not just Pakis!
But even if you were correct-which you’re not-Robert would still be right, since he’s saying the cops said ‘Asians’ for ‘muslims’.
Fact check before you accuse. Thank you.
Katnis says
@Richard – I don’t understand what you are trying to say. I’m talking about the fact that British press called out the suspect as “Asian”, while the American press chose not to identify the suspect in any way – no age, gender, or ethnicity. I think it’s interesting that the american press left out the word asian, no matter what the meaning. There was no accusation in my comment.
voegelinian says
It would be interesting to scour the British papers and video news media surrounding the first few hours after the Lee Rigby slaughter. It would be amusing to see some of them refer to the homicidal warriors in question, Michael Abedolajo and Michael Adebowale (Muslim names “Mujaahid Abu Hamza” and “Ismail Ibn Abdullah”, respectively) — both black Africans of Nigerian descent — as “two Asians”.
That, of course, would be the quintessential test. Many more tests could be conducted on British news media, since quite a few Muslims mentioned by them have not been from the “Indian Subcontinent” (much less were Fu Manchu Orientals) — e.g., Germaine Lindsay, the Jamaican convert to Islam who was part of the London Tube Bombing nearly a decade ago.
voegelinian says
Sorry, make that the London Tube Bombing “over a decade ago“.
Budvarakbar says
BO should skip the photo op in Roseburg and go all OJ and run down to Excremento and lead the ‘hunt’ for ‘the suspects’ — hey — I’d bet there is more than one golf course there he hasn’t played — maybe he can get OJ a pardon so they can do it together! — Never know who all may be hiding out on one of the local courses!
Shane says
I heard on fox news that the suspects were Asian, but the could mean Muslims from Pakistan, India, and other Asian countries. We don’t have enough info yet.
Marty says
In the UK media “asian” is synonymous with “muslim” in all
crime cases. Especially rape, child abuse & terrorism.
Sikhs, Hindus & Chinese are rarely charged with violent, still
less terrorist, crimes.
marc says
I think how it works is, is if a Hindu or Buddhist does something good, they also call them Asians, if something bad, then they are more specific, where as they do the opposite for muslims, When an amahdi does one their peace and love takkiya outreaches, they are muslim, when they gang rape children (which is common in the UK) they are aisan.
Chabuco says
Yep, that’s exactly how the Goebbelsian media whitewashes criminal acts and terror committed by Pedohammedans.
Raja says
I think you have hit the nail on the head. This seems to be the culture, culture of selective glorification of Islamic crooks and thugs. One wonders how there is so much love for a community that produces someone who does a nut job and rest prefer to be cheerleaders.. There is rumor that Muslims stay indoors before a scheduled bomb blast in town/city. That needs to be researched too.
Woe to the Western press for the contempt of the truth and the love for HATE AND blood spilling mongers !! The press always wants to be in the good books of terrorists lest they become easy target of terror. Where is the “fearlessness” and character of the press?
So the press has already caved in to terror since a long long time. Muslims know too well of how humans would react to terror…Why wouldn’t the Coptic Xians say that Islam is a complete war machine ?
The least the media could have done is: “Since victim was the intended target the Asians could have picked up an altercation(with the oblivious victim) to carry out the attack”.
marc says
“There is rumor that Muslims stay indoors before a scheduled bomb blast in town/city.” totally untrue, i will give you two reasons, they don’t care about other muslims dying in attacks (they get to meet allah earlier) infact it helps their narrative. Second, there is a significant minority of muslims who are secret apostates, and while they have to for their own safety go along with their families, they would gladly see every imam hung and an end to islam. I have no doubt any such warning would be leaked.
voegelinian says
Very good.
(And what marc points out is yet another example out of thousands indicating how the PC MC throws ethnic minorities under the bus to placate their #1 Pet Ethnic Minority, Muslims. He Who Shall Not Be Named and his friend She Who Shall Not Be Named (oh, what the heck, I’ll name them: Angemon and Mirriam) after all these years still cannot seem to get this — and they would begin to get it, if their friends helped me out and showed them how asinine they are being in persisting in their obtuseness about this massive fact that is part of the problem of Western myopia to this horrid, frightful problem of Islam that plagues us all.)
voegelinian says
woops — make that “Mirren” as the She Whom I Went Ahead and Named…
gravenimage says
Oh, good grief, Voegelinian. Describing Angemon and Mirren–whatever your disagreements with them–in terms ([they] Who Shall Not Be Named), that imply, even tongue-in-cheek, that they are evil and will come after anyone who criticizes them, is just calumny.
They are both Anti-Jihadists.
You often have good points to make–including this one–but your ridiculous running vendettas here do *nothing* to help you get your points across.
marc says
@gravenimage
“They are both Anti-Jihadists.
You often have good points to make–including this one–but your ridiculous running vendettas here do *nothing* to help you get your points across.”
Here, here, as the low profile admin here, I couldn’t agree more, such a waste of energy, keep it focused people.
gravenimage says
Thanks, Marc.
Angemon says
voegelinian posted:
“(And what marc points out is yet another example out of thousands indicating how the PC MC throws ethnic minorities under the bus to placate their #1 Pet Ethnic Minority, Muslims. He Who Shall Not Be Named and his friend She Who Shall Not Be Named (oh, what the heck, I’ll name them: Angemon and Mirriam) after all these years still cannot seem to get this — and they would begin to get it, if their friends helped me out and showed them how asinine they are being in persisting in their obtuseness about this massive fact that is part of the problem of Western myopia to this horrid, frightful problem of Islam that plagues us all.)”
What a clusterf*** – basically, tipycal voegelinian-esque obfuscation and slander. Allow me to parse that:
“PC MC throws ethnic minorities under the bus to placate their #1 Pet Ethnic Minority, Muslims”
What ethnicity/race is islam? I don’t know, and voeg certainly doesn’t explain – but it must be a very queer ethnicity/race since anyone can convert to and from it (although converting from it may be hazardous to your health).
“He Who Shall Not Be Named and his friend She Who Shall Not Be Named (oh, what the heck, I’ll name them: Angemon and Mirriam) after all these years still cannot seem to get this”
First thing to point out is that the self-proclaimed doctor apparently has a problem with names – there’s a Mirren and there’s a miriam, but I know of no Mirrian.
Second thing to point out is the claim about “all these years” – voeg’s vendetta against me and Mirren regarding this particular issue begun, at most, a couple of months ago.
Third thing to point out, both myself and Mirren agree that muslims get preferential treatment over non-muslims. What we disagree with voeg on is the cause – voeg keeps insisting that it’s all about racism while I and Mirren pointed out that his proposition fails to explain why, given two people with the same race/ethnicity and differing only in religion, the muslim one gets preferential treatment. This is why voeg wrote “ethnic minority” – as any given spin doctor, he brings forth an unproved statement and treats it as being the truth.
“and they would begin to get it, if their friends helped me out and showed them how asinine they are being in persisting in their obtuseness”
Translation: “f*** fact-based logical discussion, all I need is people parroting what I say and telling them that they’re wrong, and I’m going to continue repeating my bulls*** and slandering those two until people believe I’m right and they’re wrong”.
Godless says
“What ethnicity/race is islam? I don’t know, and voeg certainly doesn’t explain – but it must be a very queer ethnicity/race since anyone can convert to and from it (although converting from it may be hazardous to your health).”
Why does Voeg have to explain what ethnicity Islam is? It is apparent that when he said “PC MC throws ethnic minorities under the bus to placate their #1 Pet Ethnic Minority, Muslims” he means that in the minds of politically correct Islam is an ethnicity. Either you didn’t catch that or your response was a deliberate strawman.
Angemon says
Godless posted:
“Why does Voeg have to explain what ethnicity Islam is?”
Did you not read what I wrote or are you banking that others won’t?
“It is apparent that when he said “PC MC throws ethnic minorities under the bus to placate their #1 Pet Ethnic Minority, Muslims” he means that in the minds of politically correct Islam is an ethnicity.”
Isn’t it funny? Previously, you posted exactly like voeg. I called you out on that and your reply was just pathetically trying too hard not to sound like voeg. Now you sound just like voeg speaking of himself in the 3rd person. For example, voeg has, many times, replied to criticism by saying that when he wrote something he clearly meant something else, which is exactly what you’re doing here – “ when he said “PC MC throws ethnic minorities under the bus to placate their #1 Pet Ethnic Minority, Muslims” he means that…“. Voeg’s DNA is all over your post, “Godless” .
Oh, yeah: you’re talking about the “minds of politically correct [what]”? Are you a mind reader? Because I’m not – I can neither say what the “politically correct” think (if for no reason else, because “politically correct” is a catch all term that encompasses many people from different backgrounds) nor that voeg means something else than what he actually writes. If he wants to say something he should simply say it rather than going around fluffing up his posts with the intellectual equivalent of navel lint.
“Either you didn’t catch that or your response was a deliberate strawman.”
First of all, that’s a false dilemma, which is a logical fallacy. There are other alternatives, such as me taking voeg’s words at their face value – because that’s how language is supposed to work. People say things and other people don’t automatically assume that they mean something else.
Second, you’re the mind reader – shouldn’t you be telling us which is it rather than letting your false dilemma unanswered?
Third, go check a dictionary, learn what a strawman is, and then explain why what I wrote can be classified as “strawman“. Which you won’t because it can’t.
Also, as expected, not a word on voeg’s slanderous lies about me and Mirren – again, voeg’s DNA is all over your post, “Godless”. Picking up one sentence out of context and working from it to try to steer discussion away from his blunders and wrongdoings is something voeg has done many times. You’re not fooling anyone, “Godless”…
voegelinian says
Angemon is not answering Godless’s question — he’s generating a static electricity of red herrings — and his friends graven image and Mirren and Wellignton continue to let him get away with this shit.
Angemon says
Voeg, what a surprise seeing you here… NOT!
“Angemon is not answering Godless’s question”
You can ask me directly, voeg – no need to use a mouthpiece like “Godless”. In any case, you did not answer any of mine. You really don’t think anyone will fall for your obfuscation, do you?
“— he’s generating a static electricity of red herrings — and his friends graven image and Mirren and Wellignton continue to let him get away with this shit.
This raises more questions – what exactly am I saying that is a “red herring“, and why?The only red herring I see here is you using “Godless” to draw attention away from the fact that your pet theory has been debunked to oblivion. Start by explaining what ethnicity islam is and we’ll work from there, hopefully ending with you apologizing for the crap you’re pulling with me, GI and Mirren, to name a few. Assuming, that is, that you’re acting in good faith…
Godless says
Picking up one sentence out of context and working from it to try to steer discussion away from his blunders and wrongdoings is something voeg has done many times.
How did I take it out of context? I copy and pasted your entire response to one thing Voeg had said. It was NOT out of context, scroll up. Angemon people can see that you are lying.
Oh, yeah: you’re talking about the “minds of politically correct [what]”? Are you a mind reader? Because I’m not – I can neither say what the “politically correct” think (if for no reason else, because “politically correct” is a catch all term that encompasses many people from different backgrounds) nor that voeg means something else than what he actually writes.
Angemon, like I said the sarcasm was apparent to me. If you didn’t catch that then it was a deliberate strawman. Unless you can give a third option? Does anybody else besides Angemon think Voeg was really claiming Islam is an ethnicity? Obviously not, rather that is what the politically correct think. Do you disagree a lot of them think like that Angemon?
Angemon says
Godless posted:
“How did I take it out of context? I copy and pasted your entire response to one thing Voeg had said. It was NOT out of context, scroll up.”
Except you didn’t focus on my entire response, did you? You focused on my question and you ignored the rest, as if it didn’t exist. Like I said, taking one sentence out of context.
“Angemon people can see that you are lying.”
Or, you know, make their own minds about whether I’m lying or not.
“Angemon, like I said the sarcasm was apparent to me.”
Sarcasm? When did you mention anything about sarcasm? Your exact words were “he means that in the minds of politically correct Islam is an ethnicity. Either you didn’t catch that or your response was a deliberate strawman.“. But apparently, there’s sarcasm in the mix now. Like I said, a false dilemma.
“If you didn’t catch that then it was a deliberate strawman.”
Again, false dilemma.
“ Unless you can give a third option?”
Which I did. Funny how you saw fit to leave that out. Plus , you gave another one now so, huh, good job at doing my work for me?
“Does anybody else besides Angemon think Voeg was really claiming Islam is an ethnicity?”
What does have to do with what voeg said? Is the meaning of the words he writes subject to popular vote now? If so, I want to give options as well.
“Obviously not”
Ah, so you went out of your way to query third-parties on something and immediately made your mind up without letting them answer?
“ather that is what the politically correct think. ”
Again, are you a mind-reader?
“Do you disagree a lot of them think like that Angemon?”
Who thinks like what?
Also, do you have anything to say on voeg’s demeaning treatment of other people on this forum? Oh, who am I kidding? You’re his mouthpiece – the guy/girl who’s supposed to say the crap he doesn’t want to have affiliated with his “main” persona.
Angemon says
Yeah, that’s what was said of Fort Hood…
Huh, so? Does that automatically exclude that the perps knew who he was, targeted him and staged the whole thing to seem like a random brawl? It may very well have been just a random brawl, but let’s not jump the gun.
Peggy says
Yep, since they don’t know who didi it how can they know why?
On what basis do they know that it wasn’t terrorist related? They don’t tell us anything except it’s not terrorism.
Why should we believe them?
vlparker says
Of course it wasn’t terrorist related. It happened near a bar and we all know that muslims don’t drink alcohol.
lowa says
and even if ALCOHOL were to be blamed, why would these three “ASIANS” have a RED CAR waiting for them just down the road after their DEED?…. highly suspicious to me!!
Dave J says
No investigation, no arrests but they know immediately its not terrorism?
Dhimmiwit says
Yes, just like when we point out that Muhammad beat his child wife or had sex with her when she was between 8 and 9 years old – or point to any of his other vile traditions, the apologist will deny they’ve ever heard of those Hadiths but will immediately know beyond doubt, even without investigation, that they are ‘weak’ Hadiths…
Budvarakbar says
Nothing new about that — if he was with another guy and 3 women – there ARE witnesses — sure seems to be a lid on them — wonder how long it took for FBI and DHS to get in on the act?
mortimer says
It sounds like revenge to bring ‘HONOR’ to Islam. Had it been successful, it would have been an ‘HONOR KILLING’.
This is a warning to dirty kafirs not to embarrass or thwart JIHADISTS.
Americans are SERIOUSLY UNDERESTIMATING the jihad-terrorism threat. It does no good to downplay it since people will be less vigilant to identify it and prevent it. Meanwhile, no Muslims are trying to stop jihad terror because they are afraid of being the next victim or because they approve of jihad.
Davegreybeard says
“…in the British press, “Asian” is the universally-employed code word for “Muslim.”
Well, O.K. but isn’t it also the “universally-employed code word” for “black?”
Is it possible that the “Asian” men were garden variety feral blacks, of the “gang banging” genre?
Tom W Harris says
No, “Asian” is not a code word for “black.”
This has been another in the series Simple Answers to Really Easy Questions.
American says
Did they happen to say “Allahu Akbar”?
Having not found the perpetrators, not talked to them, how can they so confidently say that it isn’t terrorism? Was there a sign on their backs saying “This is not terrorism”?
Allan Mandrowski says
Poor bloke first sacrifices himself foiling a terror attack on a train bound for Paris.
Now he gets stabbed again on his own soil.
Peggy says
All courtesy of his government.
Miao Zedong says
The picture show the French President decorating an US citizen for his bravery. Did Obama invite these men to the white house ? Will Obama shake his hand NOW in a visit to the hospital ?
Budvarakbar says
Believe me — the last thing you would EVER want when in a hospital in serious condition would be a visit from that a-hole >> even his Grandmother didn’t survive that!
DeMolay says
Actually he did get an invite to the White House
Peggy says
But he didn’t make a clock.
Miao Zedong says
I stand corrected, watched the video seeing an overjoyed POTUS shacking hands and twinkling eye contacts.
gravenimage says
Obama did eventually thank these brave men–but it took awhile, and he only acted once it became obvious that it would be an embarrassment if he did not:
“Obama thanks trio, including 3 Americans, who stopped train attack”
http://www.nhregister.com/general-news/20150822/obama-thanks-trio-including-3-americans-who-stopped-train-attack
Karl says
As this has yet to play out, I believe that you’re playing right into CAIR’s hands here Robert, by saying that police are searching for Muslims in your headline when no one is reporting it as so. Taking your cue from a British newspaper rather than local ones is also a bad idea. We shall see how it turns out. I believe it is always better to wait than to jump the gun.
JawsV says
Why would Chinese or Japanese men (“Asian men”) want to kill Stone? What’s their beef against Stone? Answer: Nothing.
PRCS says
“Why would Chinese or Japanese men (“Asian men”) want to kill Stone? What’s their beef against Stone? Answer: Nothing.”
Just speculation, my friend. Could be many things. Alcohol is suspected in this incident.
The DailyMail article states:
“Police are now looking for two adult Asian males …”
I’ll go out on a limb here and assert that (IMO) they were quoting the Sacramento PD–including their use of the phrase “Asian men”–meaning Asian men.
Here’s a link concerning Sacramento gangs:
http://www.streetgangs.com/cities/sacramento-gangs#sthash.xNqhGkoZ.dpbs
Budvarakbar says
Filipino Moros == Muslim
or Chinese Uyghurs == Muslim
In Britain — Asian refers to Indian or Pakistani
East of there would be ‘East Asians’
Arabs – are Arabs
Tony says
Sadly the Daily Mail’s reporting ability has become a bit of a joke , either no one proof reads their stories or they’re all very thick .
A prime example here : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3263377/Council-towed-away-crushed-driver-s-car-error.html
voegelinian says
The rule of thumb should be that, in the onctext of Islamic-seeming crimes/terror, we suspect Muslims first, then wait for evidence to prove us wrong afterward. That would be rational prejudice.
Question for the Islam 101 class. In 500 words or less, present an argument defending the legitimacy of rational prejudice against any and all Muslims.
Angemon says
voegelinian posted:
“The rule of thumb should be that, in the onctext of Islamic-seeming crimes/terror, we suspect Muslims first, then wait for evidence to prove us wrong afterward. That would be rational prejudice.”
Wait a minute, voeg – are you going soft on me? Didn’t you say that if we can’t prove that a muslim that we have “rational prejudice” against is in fact planning to murder us in increasingly horrific ways we could “reverse-engineer” an explanation to why he’s acting inconspicuously, thus negating any evidence they could bring afterwad to prove us wrong?
Yes, you did:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/06/strategies-of-denial-revisited-part-iii#comment-1260202
voegelinian says
P.S. on my “rule of thumb”. That rule is even more our right to cultivate given the egregious dereliction of duty of our mainstream news media, police, and government with regard to their main job we are paying them to do for fuck sake: informing & protecting the public. It is their fault that we have to assume a rational prejudice against all Muslims. It’s not our job to go through the meticulous process of parsing and granularizing all the forensic data to disentangle non-Muslim perps from Muslim perps in any crime/terror plot/terror attack that otherwise has Islamic overtones to it. It’s their fucking job. In the meantime, we have every right to presume the Islamic worst. In the years before 911, even before I had woken up to the full horror & catastrophe of the Islam all Muslims adore & enable, I had enough of a flexible and open mind to remark to my friends, in the immediate aftermath of the Oklahoma City Bombing: “It’s only rational to leap to the speculative conclusion — pending further evidence — that Muslims did this.”
Even back then, I had the promising signs of the ability to extricate my intellect and emotions from the PC MC entanglement of tendrils that insinuate themselves so effectively into our psyches. No wonder I’m ahead of the curve in the Counter-Jihad now and can see clearly to steer clear of the nougaty softness to which so many others seem oblivious (and even, at times, fiercely protective of, as though it actually matters to their ethical narcissism to protect their nougaty softness…).
voegelinian says
“we suspect Muslims first, then wait for evidence to prove us wrong afterward”
By “wait” I don’t mean we sit around doing nothing, as Angemon and his friends would counsel us to do. Here, “wait” is a figure of speech. Secondly, the evidence I’m referring to here is where it turns out that a non-Muslim did it (as in the case of these “two Asians” who might turn out to be non-Muslim or as in the case of Timothy McVeigh (pace Jayna Davis) which, naturally, Angemon glided past in pursuit of his rabbit hole).
This is just the kind of sophistry Angemon indulges in by the bucket-full which, were I to get ensnared by his responses to me (which gravenimage ignores in their sheer numerical preponderance — I’ve never seen her say “good frief!” to Angemon during any one of his thousand times he has zoomed in to pester me for my hard stance on Islam), I would get mired in his rabbit trails & rabbit-holes amounting to time-wasting clean-ups on Aisle 9 interminably unscrambling all his misunderstandings, mischaracterizations, red herrings, strawmen, goalpost-moving, well-poisoning, etc.
Angemon says
voegelinian posted:
“By “wait” I don’t mean we sit around doing nothing, as Angemon and his friends would counsel us to do.”
Again, voeg, you don’t speak for me – stop ascribing me words. And you should have realized by now that your repeated attacks on other users are not gaining you any fans – much to the contrary. You remind me of an addicted gambler who keeps replaying the last SuperBowl match and betting on the losing team – “double or nothing, they’ll win next time, I can feel it”.
“(as in the case of these “two Asians” who might turn out to be non-Muslim or as in the case of Timothy McVeigh (pace Jayna Davis) which, naturally, Angemon glided past in pursuit of his rabbit hole).”
Oh, you and your crazy ramblings! What exactly did I glide past? I stated, on several posts, that the police was too quick to dismiss this attack as not being an act of terrorism, and that this could very well have been payback for his actions in the TVG. That is all I can say based on the available evidence. For all your accusations of “sophistry”, you sure enjoy dabbling in it.
“This is just the kind of sophistry Angemon indulges in by the bucket-full ”
So much so that you had to ascribe me words instead of, you know, pointing out to something I actually say and explain why it’s sophistry. There’s a name for when you need to make up evidence to back your case – it’s called “being wrong”.
“which, were I to get ensnared by his responses to me”
Is that your explanation to why you rarely reply to questions directed at you regarding what you say? The thing, voeg, is that you rarely reply to anyone – not just me, anyone – who doesn’t outright agree with you – apparently, you’re very keen on eco chambers. Are all those other users you don’t reply to engaging in the same kind of “sophistry” you claim I am?
“(which gravenimage ignores in their sheer numerical preponderance”
Oh, please – if all you have is “he replies to me a lot” then you’ve got nothing. You never, ever – not even once – explained why anything I wrote was “sophistry”. Like a spin doctor, you just make stuff up and act like it’s the purest of truths, and now you’re acting like a walking case of Bogorad’s syndrome because GI didn’t fell for your act.
“I’ve never seen her say “good frief!” to Angemon during any one of his thousand times he has zoomed in to pester me for my hard stance on Islam),”
Again, making stuff up and pretending it’s the truth – questioning you about what you say on a public forum is not “pestering you”. In fact, I recall asking you the same questions many times because you refuse to answer them. I’m going to go on a limb here and say that if you were to answer my questions then I wouldn’t be repeating them over and over.
As for your alleged “hard stance on islam”, yeah, no – you went well out of your way to keep islam in the background and focus on muslims – ALL of them, correct? So what’s your solution? Your big plan for that? Oh, yeah – keep repeating “total deportation” over and over and hope that 50, or 100, or 150 ears away from now someone might get on with it. “Hard stance”? Hard as melted nougat…
“I would get mired in his rabbit trails & rabbit-holes amounting to time-wasting clean-ups on Aisle 9 interminably unscrambling all his misunderstandings, mischaracterizations, red herrings, strawmen, goalpost-moving, well-poisoning, etc.”
That would be convincing if, you know, you actually backed up any of those slanderous accusations. And this is a running theme with you – you claim I do, or think, or say such and such, but you never, NEVER follow it up with evidence, despite me asking you to do so every single time (which accounts for a big slice of the “thousand” replies you accounted earlier). And that sounds like a big oversight on your end, considering that you seem to keep tabs on all counter-jihadis here, seeing how every once in a while you like to bring out posts they made years ago and demand explanations (as, for example, mortimer and Jay Boo can surely attest to).
On the other hand, I offer quotes to back what I say, and you never, NEVER disputed any of them. I have no problems dismantling your smear pieces, but you? Despite all you accuse me of, I don’t see anything remotely resembling actual arguments. I see a lot of whining, random accusations and mud flinging from you (and the equivalent of crying because your big sis isn’t here to protect your ass) but no actual rebuttal, all under the guise of “not being mired into rabbit holes”. Hmmm, almost as if you’ve got nothing and are reduced to repeating the same thing over and over, hoping people will buy it…
gravenimage says
Voegelinian wrote:
This is just the kind of sophistry Angemon indulges in by the bucket-full which, were I to get ensnared by his responses to me (which gravenimage ignores in their sheer numerical preponderance — I’ve never seen her say “good frief!” to Angemon during any one of his thousand times he has zoomed in to pester me for my hard stance on Islam)
……………………………..
Actually, I have at various times disagreed with one or both of you, Voeg–and on occasion agreed with your stance rather than Angemon’s, as I did recently.
You tend to forget those instances, of course.
The only time I said “good grief”–out of exasperation–was when you called Angemon out apropos of nothing–rather, in fact, as you just called me out here. You have done the same with other Anti-Jihadists–just recently with Wellington, though he not even commented on the thread at all.
And I get tired of the wrangling between you and Angemon–I don’t think it is helpful–the fact is that I agree with both of you far more than I disagree. Not, of course, that this is apt to satisfy you…
Angemon says
gravenimage posted:
“Actually, I have at various times disagreed with one or both of you, Voeg–and on occasion agreed with your stance rather than Angemon’s, as I did recently.
You tend to forget those instances, of course.”
I submit you the following, GI: voeg does not forget, he simply ignores facts that go against the narratives he’s trying to push.
“Not, of course, that this is apt to satisfy you…”
Indeed – he has proven beyond any reasonable doubt that, as far as he’s concerned, anyone who’s not a total sycophant might as well be rebuking every word of him, since they’ll get treated the same.
DeMolay says
I agree. However I suspect EVERYONE who first saw this story wondered if it was Muslims – and that is a perception CAIR can do nothing about until the Muslim community start to do more to change public opinion
Peggy says
That is a perception CAIR can milk for all it’s worth if it turns out not to be terrorism.
voegelinian says
Egg zackly.
gravenimage says
Karl wrote:
As this has yet to play out, I believe that you’re playing right into CAIR’s hands here Robert, by saying that police are searching for Muslims in your headline…
………………………….
What *absolute bs*. The idea that Robert Spencer is asserting this as proven fact is ridiculous. Anyone just reading this story’s headline can see that this is false.
Karl says
Then why did he change the headline?
Karl says
Taken from FreeRepublic which refers to the Jihadwatch site (with the old headline):
Spencer Stone stabbing: police searching for two Muslim male suspects, say attack not terrorism
jihad watch ^ | 10/8/15 | Robert Spencer
Posted on 10/8/2015, 12:17:40 PM by Nachum
The Daily Mail is a British paper, and in the British press, “Asian” is the universally-employed code word for “Muslim.” If this British paper is suddenly using the word to refer, as in the American custom, to people from China or Japan, they’re not saying so.
And so now the plot thickens. Police are insisting this attack had nothing to do with terrorism, but they always do that, no matter what the circumstances. If Spencer Stone was indeed stabbed by Muslims, then the possibility that the stabbing was related to his stopping the jihad attack on the French train cannot be dismissed out of hand.
(Excerpt) Read more at jihadwatch.org …
marc says
@Karl
“Then why did he change the headline?”
When it comes to the daily mail “asian” is more accurate when included in quotes, as this would probably be the first time they had said “asian” when talking about non muslims in a negative story, so either the DM are mistaken this time, and it really is some other asian group and they forgot to identify them, it’s really hard to tell.
The fact this sounds like it started over a women being harassed, also leads me to think “muslim” first.
So do you know who the real peps were?
Jaladhi says
And what is American media saying!1 So far I have not even a breaking news report in NYTimes. When they report, of course, it will be white washed as a common crime. This butcher type attacks carried out by Muslims – they have enough practice slitting the throats of goats and lambs.
Why is American media not interested in reporting this terror attack.
William says
I suspect the suspects are Hispanic and not Mohammedans. Reason: If they are Mohammedans, they would have tried cutting his neck. Stabbings seem more like the action of gangsters or hoodlums.
Budvarakbar says
How do you know that he didn’t get neck wounds?
voegelinian says
Muslims have many, many times stabbed their victims and not gone for the neck. And b) exigent and/or chaotic circumstances can often get in the way of finishing the job (e.g., when Mohamed Bouyeri failed to complete the decapitation of Theo Van Gogh).
Angemon says
William posted:
“I suspect the suspects are Hispanic and not Mohammedans. Reason: If they are Mohammedans, they would have tried cutting his neck. Stabbings seem more like the action of gangsters or hoodlums.”
That can very well be the case, William. However, the islamic state exhorted muslims in the West to disguise their religiosity – they could have been vengeful muslims trying to pass the attack as a random brawl. Literally, stealth jihad of the sword (or blade).
John Scott says
Our prayers go out for Spencer’s speedy and full recovery.
John of Canada
voegelinian says
“Stone was with three female friends and one male friend at the time of the attack. ”
Have his friends said anything about what they saw before, during and after the attack? Have police questioned them? Will news reporters do their fucking job and find out and tell the citizens of America and the free West who all have a dog in this fight?
livingengine says
Knife stabbings to the chest are no joke. Video which shows what open chest surgery is like.
Kathy Brown, Esq. says
I just pray to God that they’re guarding his hospital room. If it is ‘slimes they’ll be wanting to finish the job.
God bless and heal this marvelous young man, and comfort his family!
Raja says
Kathy,
Amen..
bobm says
this story changes every time I hear it… from ..he’s fighting 5 guys alone…drunk..to he’s with 3 girls and defending his girl friend… to .Asians…. this story is being manipulated … NO?..
vlparker says
First we have the Oregon shooting where Alex Skarlatos attended school and now Spencer Stone gets attacked and we’re all supposed to think this is just a big coincidence? Nice try, coppers.
Joseph says
They say there is no such thing as a coincidence. I believe this is true
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/spencer-stone-us-air-force-france-train-attack-repeatedly-stabbed/
Stone is the second of the three Americans to be touched by violence since returning home. Last week, Skarlatos left rehearsals for TV’s “Dancing With the Stars” to rush back to his hometown of Roseburg, Oregon, after a gunman killed nine people at the community college Skarlatos had attended.
Joseph says
This post was an addition to vlparker.
I added the hot link…..THANKS for the information vlparker.
Donovnan Nuera says
Maybe it was a gang of illegal aliens……I wonder how the papers would play that angle to spin it..
JayT says
Well, since we are all speculating, here’s my take. First, I’ve lived in California for over 3 decades, so there is a lot of *local* knowledge if you don’t live here then you wouldn’t know. Yes, using “Asian” is a code word for Muslims many times, but I’m fairly sure this won’t be the case here. California has the highest percentage of actual Asians in the U.S. per state. Asians here love 2 types of cars the most when we are talking about Asian gang members or such, not the studious type aiming to get into Stanford. Toyota cars and Hondas are the preference, and notice they drove off in a Camry. I also saw on the news a short video clip and they definitely were of the same size and brawling like Asian gang members do. Short, wild swings with both hands and front kicks. I’ve seen more than my fair share of Asian gangs fighting in the malls and such, and these fit it too a tee. Speculation of course, but I’m no more guilty than the others doing the same here at this time. Jihadists wouldn’t bother with the real or fake reaction to him defending the girl. Jihadists would’ve just killed him as quickly as the opportunity presented itself without all the foreplay leading up to it.
The last thought I’d like to leave you with is this–most of us want to ensure Islam doesn’t take root here in the U.S. more than it has already, but these gangs, of all ethnicities, need to be dealt with much more aggressively, too. A gang leader in the 1970s named Ford ran a gang that once took payment from Libya to attack U.S. targets from within. If you thought these 65,000+ gang members, just in California, have some sort of patriotic loyalty, think again. For the right price, they will and have turned on “We the People”. Saying they feel the need to gang-bang because they need a job is about the same as saying the Jihadist does what he does out of need for employment.
bernie says
The term “Asian” by itself is so broad and vague, as the continent of Asia is so vast. “Asians” can range from Israelis to Saudis to Bengalis to Thais, just to give a few of dozens of examples.
voegelinian says
“Jihadists wouldn’t bother with the real or fake reaction to him defending the girl. Jihadists would’ve just killed him as quickly as the opportunity presented itself without all the foreplay leading up to it. ”
There are many cases of unsuccessful Muslim attacks in various contexts and places around the world over the years. Your implication that Muslims must perfectly kill every time they attack is Hollywoodishly ludicrous.
Alan Ackbar says
Unlikely the attackers were Muslims as Islam is the religion of peace.
Jon says
Most likely East Asian – Chinese, Koreans, Philippinos. Americans usually just refer to them all as Asians, Asiatics or ‘gooks’.
It’s only the UK media who euphemistically refer to Pakis and other Muslims as ‘Asians’. I believe that a lot of REAL Asians in the UK resent that term when it’s used in a context about paedophilia or other Muslim-type crimes.
Vicky says
I believe it was a terrorist attack, like the grandmother beheaded at the Oklahoma chicken processing plant. It was muslims. ISIS publicly broadcast orders directly to US muslims…kill Soldiers, Police Officers, Firemen, EMTs ect. They specifically named Rob O’Neill as a target, the Navy Seal who killed Osama Bin Laden. So clearly if the soldier is considered a hero against Islam, he is high priority. Stone is high priority and considered a great prize.
Raja says
Vicky,
Thanks for the info on Rob and other prized targets of Islam.
Kessler says
What do you reckon folks – will the ethnicity and true intention of the attackers ever be reported in the mainstream media if it turns out to be terror-related? My bet is that it will either be completely burried, people involved even paid to keep quiet, or at best, only reported on “right wing, bigoted” outlets and therefore easily dismissed as fabricated lies in order to “attack all muslims”
Raja says
When the twelve year old Syrian was led to torture / murder the world hardly had any heart for the hapless boy, going by the outcry. The man in the streets of the West is “carrying the cross” whenever a Islamic terror is denied as such and lied and whitewashed by every evil politician/ authority/press etc.Today BBC reported of mass protests in Germany against Islamization. The government pressure is telling on the people.
The world, especially the West has already surrendered to the dark forces of subjugation.
Truth Seeker says
Ruling Machinery in the West and US are controlled by the Infiltrated Islamic Trojan Horses. according to them, now by chance if anyone quarrels with a Muslim, it becomes Terrorism. At the same time, if Jihadi kills Innocent Citizen, it is not Terrorism, for he/she is Allah’s soldier and Does the Duty for the Reward of Jannah.
This is the sign of End Times.
gravenimage says
Spencer Stone stabbing: police searching for two “Asian” male suspects, say attack not terrorism
The Daily Mail is a British paper, and in the British press, “Asian” is the universally-employed code word for “Muslim.” If this British paper is suddenly using the word to refer, as in the American custom, to people from China or Japan, they’re not saying so. It is also possible that the Sacramento police said they were looking for “Asians,” by which they really did mean Chinese or Japanese or Koreans or Southeast Asians, etc., and the Daily Mail is too careless to note the difference in usage…
…………………………….
Normally, I would assume that since this attack took place in the US that “Asian” refers to east Asian–Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Cambodian, etc–except that this is a British newspaper, where “Asian” is almost always a codeword for “Muslim”.
I wish I knew exactly what term the Sacramento police used–as well as witnesses at the scene.
And note–this was no bar brawl–Spencer Stone was protecting a female companion. (This does not, of course, necessarily mean that he was not the target. If this *was* a targeted attack, surely his assailants would know that he would act to protect a woman).
I have noted previously that midtown Sacramento is generally quite safe–a bit of aggressive panhandling and it can be a bit loud on a Saturday night with the local nightclubs–maybe the occasional car break-in at worst.
But this kind of violence is virtually unprecedented.
marc says
but if you know the history of the daily mail, that exactly what their headline was saying.
Karl says
At the time The DM headline was “Asians”. The Jihadwatch headline was “Muslims”. The people at the scene, a taxi driver and a liquor store clerk had said they were Asians. I’m not sure how to local Ukrainian population, which he have plenty of here describes Muslims, but the liquor store clerk who looks to be American would not describe someone who looks to be Middle Eastern or Arabic, as Asian. This is just how we speak in California. Furthermore, how can someone be described as Muslim without knowing who they are and what their belief system is? They may very well be Muslim. You and I don’t know, and that is what I was pointing out. Coming up with your own take on what the DM reports sounds like poor reporting.
marc says
Sounds like you should be speaking to the DM and asking them to be consistent with their misinformation
Karl says
LOL. Ok, if you want to think that reporting what people at the scene said is not what should be reported, and that you should be interpreting what you think they should have said, I’ll get right on that.
gravenimage says
Karl, we don’t know if the Daily Mail was directly quoting witness or the Sacramento police, or if they put their own spin on their headline.
That is, indeed, the whole point of this story here.
Karl says
Well, it turns out I was correct. Everyone else here was jumping the gun.
http://m.kcra.com/news/police-to-discuss-signficant-development-in-spencer-stones-stabbing/36259282
Flyingsword says
Of course the government will say it had nothing to do with islam. Set up to jihadist to kill him and this on the “random” college shooting in Oregon where the other train hero attends classes. To much of a coincidence not to be jihad attacks.
Mark A says
Robert, please keep following this story and post new articles as the story unfolds.
I wish Spencer Stone a full and speedy recovery.
gravenimage says
Here’s some good news, Mark:
“Train Hero Spencer Stone Is Awake and in ‘Good Spirits’ After Stabbing in California”
https://gma.yahoo.com/train-hero-spencer-stone-awake-good-spirits-stabbing-211314239–abc-news-topstories.html
Angemon says
gravenimage posted:
““Train Hero Spencer Stone Is Awake and in ‘Good Spirits’ After Stabbing in California””
Plus, he’s expected to make a full recovery – good to know 🙂
Katherine says
Seems a little coincidental that one of the other heroes of the failed French train terrorism incident had his community college attacked by a gunman just recently. Out of how many thousands of little community colleges there are? And now this. Sounds like vendetta to me.
Jerry says
In the meantime Arab Muslims Asians and Afghan Muslim Asians and Pakistani Muslim Asians, and Uighur Muslim Asians and Chechen Muslim Asians continue their murderous and genocidal terror attacks on Christians and Yazidis and Hindus and other non Muslims mainly with weapons supplied and sponsored by the USA, via the Iraqi puppet government, the Pakistani “Allies”, the Afghan puppet government and Turkish “NATO Ally”.
In Turkey, Turkish Muslim Asians carry out Turkish government sponsored terror attacks against the Kurds, following Turkey bombing of Kurdish Peshmerga forces defending their population against IS, while pretending to be bombing IS.
In Israel and “Palestine” the Arab Muslim Asians continue their murderous and genocidal terror attacks on Jews largely funded by UNRWA (United Nations Rocket and Weapons Agency?) with US and Eurabian money.
In Nigeria, however, it must be “honourary Muslim Asians” who carry out their genocidal attacks against Christians and other non Muslims.
But not worry, in the USA since they have the Qatari funded Somali “African American” honourary Muslim Asian in charge, they have been spared terrorist attacks as the Fort Hood Massacre was re-branded by reigning Somali former cndidate as merely “Workplace Violence”.
At this rate, how soon will the reigning Somali Muslim Presi-traitor re-brand 911 as an aviation accident?
Antonia says
As a former resident of “Scaremento” (nice typo, was that a Freudian slip?), I can tell you that 21st and K is part of ‘Mid Town’ and there are many bars and clubs in the area, including gay ones. Given the lateness of the hour, I am more inclined to believe it had less to do with jihad and more to do with unwelcome advances and alcohol.
Peggy says
marc says
October 9, 2015 at 4:06 pm
@gravenimage
“They are both Anti-Jihadists.
You often have good points to make–including this one–but your ridiculous running vendettas here do *nothing* to help you get your points across.”
Here, here, as the low profile admin here, I couldn’t agree more, such a waste of energy, keep it focused people.
===============================
Nice to see you pull people up for savaging each other here.
Pity you chose to say that you’re not my daddy so I shouldn’t expect any support when I brought to you attention that I was being savaged, insulted, sworn at and accused of being Muslim because some didn’t like what I had to say.
The whole ordeal was very stressful and savage and frankly disrespected this site because of the language used against me.
I am glad to see that you are prepared to pull people up on some things.
BTW I too am anti-Jihad but it certainly didn’t stop some from brutal attacks.
For the sake of respecting this site some things can’t be allowed to stay, especially foul language but that’s your call I guess..
gravenimage says
Peggy, I am uncertain as to whether you are addressing Marc or myself. I have disagreed with you on occasion, but have always done so respectfully. Certainly, I have never used profanity.