UPDATE: Madina Sall is also apparently the victim of a forced marriage: “Ba is the city of Oak Ridge electric project manager and has been employed by the city since May 2009. He is also a reserve officer with the Knox County Sheriff’s Office. Court records state he is also in the Army Reserve. Documents filed in the pending breakup include allegations that Ba essentially kept his spouse captive for three years under Islam’s Sharia law in their Oak Ridge home. Sall and Ba are second cousins, according to records, and she ‘did not consent to the marriage but was forced to follow through with the marriage due to her families’ (sic) Islamic beliefs.'” Source: “Divorce: Wife held captive under Sharia law,” MyInforms.com, November 7, 2015 (thanks to Robert).
———-
According to Islamic law, “the husband may forbid his wife to leave the home.” This is based on a hadith in which Muhammad is depicted as saying: “It is not permissible for a woman who believes in Allah and the Last Day to allow someone into her husband’s house if he is opposed, or to go out if he is averse.” (Umdat al-Salik, M10.4).
So here again we have a confrontation between Islamic law and American law, while in the public discourse only racist, bigoted Islamophobes question the compatibility of the two. And we are constantly told that no Muslims, none, want to bring any aspects of Sharia that are recognized as incompatible with American law to the U.S. Yet it keeps happening.
“Court records: City of Oak Ridge employee kept wife virtual prisoner under Sharia law,” by Bob Fowler, Knoxville News Sentinel, November 7, 2015 (thanks to Creeping Sharia):
CLINTON — A city of Oak Ridge employee paid the bride’s father $2,000 for his daughter in a forced marriage in Africa, court records allege, and then kept her as a virtual prisoner in their Oak Ridge home. Documents filed on behalf of Madina Sall state she and Ardo Isma Ba were married in Senegal in May 2007, but Ba didn’t register the marriage with the Senegalese government. The couple are natives of Senegal.
The divorce papers filed on Ba’s behalf in Anderson County Chancery Court state their marriage occurred in Knoxville in August 2012. Ba is the city of Oak Ridge electr…
The rest of the story is behind a subscription wall.

jihad3tracker says
Off topic — Tomorrow, Veterans Day, Muslims in Tulsa are apparently intending to be in that city’s parade. I am in the quagmire of cognitive dissonance. Are you?
Beelzeboss says
It’s not cognitive dissonance it’s the islamic play book. Join the system and destroy it from within.
gravenimage says
Very true.
jihad3tracker says
Please excuse my posting this in “installments” — but there is something all JW readers could do, and I will also do when time permits, later today. Contact the Veterans post in Tulsa and let them know you stand solidly with their intent to expose CAIR’s participation in the parade tomorrow as an insincere insulting act of deceit.
You might also mention Robert’s blog, and direct them to his credentials as an expert on Islam (“About Robert Spencer”) — in the top black bar on JW’s homepage. Perhaps mentioning too that he is extremely generous with his time, contactable via : director [at] jihadwatch [dot] org
And, of course, let them know that CAIR reads everything on this blog, including my comments, so the staff and its internet presence may be bombarded with the usual “racist bigoted Islamophobe” bullwash. Tomorrow’s holiday to honor men and women in service to the United States is a perfect occasion to let them know of a counter-jihad contact path & possible future advisory relationship with Robert.
jihad3tracker says
Here is a link about that : http://pamelageller.com/2015/11/pamela-geller-wnd-column-terrorizing-tulsa-as-hamas-cair-plans-float-in-veterans-day-parade.html/
IT IS ON THE WEBSITE OF AMERICA’S MOST COURAGEOUS PERSON — PAMELA GELLER.
Angemon says
Slavery – no more, no less.
Michael Copeland says
“Slavery is a part of Islam.”
Sheikh Saleh al Fawzan
http://libertygb.org.uk/v1/index.php/home/root/news-libertygb/6417-slavery-is-part-of-islam-muslims-speak
wally says
I believe that this is their mentality,their culture and their satanic jihadists ideas…
Champ says
Under islam, everyone is a slave to evil allah …
PRCS says
Correct.
And despite what “news” reports began telling our neighbors and friends–beginning with the Fort Hood shooing–SOA means “Slave Of Allah”
http://www.amazon.com/Slave-Allah-Zacarias-Moussaoui-Anthropology/dp/0745326196
Wellington says
Agreed. Champ. Only the degree varies.
Allah is not a loving deity but rather one who demands (and expects) submission. I don’t think this cosmic bastard exists but, for argument’s sake if he does, then, as I have written before here at JW, the only recourse for a human being who wishes to act nobly and live a humane life is to reject Allah and emulate Prometheus. Better to die a noble death than be a slave and so even if Islam is the true faith (it isn’t of course) it is still horrible and must be opposed.
gravenimage says
I absolutely agree with your point, Wellington, and I know you have addressed this before.
I’ve also posted on this “mad god universe” scenario several times before. Here is one:
Fatma wrote:
We’ll see who gets the reservations, you or the muslims and then you’ll wish you had a day just a day to make everything right n (sic) to be a muslim we’ll see who will laugh at who at that time dear
Best regards,
Your muslim sister
…………………………………
All right—let’s posit what you are saying, just for the sake of argument—let’s say that the Muslim view of the afterlife is completely correct.
That would mean that I would not just have to convert—that would be fine, as far as it goes—but that I would have to threaten good people who dared to criticize barbarities like suicide bombing, and might have to go so far as to kill them. Then I would have to condone pedophilia, forced marriages, the imposition of brutal Shari’ah law, “Honor Killing” for any “disobedient” woman, the beheading of Infidels, slavery and sex slavery, the genocide of the Jews, and the stoning to death of rape victims.
If I knew that this was the only way to escape hell, could I do it?
No—I couldn’t bring myself to commit such horrific evil—not for any reason.
Thank goodness I don’t believe in such a “mad-god” universe, or the horror of the deity “Allah”—where the very inversion of morality and the committing of atrocities is the only thing that will bring you “salvation”.
In fact, I feel profoundly sorry for anyone whose moral sense is so perversely warped. *Ugh*.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/08/jihadis-on-robin-williams-hope-this-one-burns-in-the-hottest-lake-of-fire/comment-page-1#comment-1103819
Wellington says
Thank you for your reply, gravenimage. I see we are on point again.
My God, what a monstrosity Islam is even if true. If this isn’t damning, nothing is.
gravenimage says
Wellington, I love your reference to Prometheus. Another fine image for resistance.
Champ says
As always, good points, Wellington …
Oh, the world would be a much better and safer place without islam, wouldn’t it? Certainly not without its other problems ..nevertheless things would be much better.
gravenimage says
*Very* true, Champ. Everyone living under Islam is a slave, Muslim or Infidel–the only difference is that some are more willing slaves than others…
Don McKellar says
Isn’t Tennessee one of those states who had the foresight and intelligence to BAN sharia law? Here’s a good example why.
Godless says
This is for GravenImage but Angemon, Mirren, Champ and JayBoo are mentioned as well. I hope you wake up GravenImage.
Don McKellar says
I guess you’re referring to that retarded video below. Move on and do something constructive with your time.
gravenimage says
Wake up to what? The fact that Voegelinian–and now yourself, it seems–spend far more time attacking your fellow Anti-Jihadists than you do opposing Jihad? I am, sadly, already quite aware of this.
I’ve already heard both these recordings. They hardly seem worth endlessly cross posting.
Godless says
No GravenImage. This is a new video created especially for you. We are hoping to get through to you.
Champ says
Godless, you owe Graven an *apology* for insulting her the way that you did!
voegelinian says
Yes, it was a third video, and we talked about gravenimage for a few minutes; but it’s just an introductory chit-chat. Ideally, the Jihad Watch people would travel the arduous journey over to Paltalk to visit and get in on the conversation that needs to take place. Or not.
Angemon says
voegelinian posted:
“Jihad Watch people would travel the arduous journey over to Paltalk to visit and get in on the conversation that needs to take place.”
I’m sure your incapability to address and rebut arguments in a medium where you have all the time you need to comprehend them, look for info and think of a rebuttal is absent during real-time conversation… sarc./ off
Let me guess: this so-called “conversation that needs to take place” is aimed at getting people to unconditionally support you. Did I get that right? It’s not a discussion about islam, or an analysis of the options on the table that can – and should – be swiftly put into practice. No, I bet the so-called “conversation that needs to take place” is of another kind. You, on your many, many posts here on JW through the years, already proved beyond any reasonable doubt that you don’t want to discuss the pros and cons of the measures on the table because you take for granted that whatever course of action you decided on is the best. Heck, there’s a reason why you say “conversation” instead of “discussion” – your so-called “conversation” would be no different, in nature, than a “conversation” about religion with a dawah artist – both you and the dawah artist have a preconceived notion of what is the “truth”, and all that’s left is how to convert others to it. The end justifies the means, and all methods are fair: if you have to lie or initiate the use of force and violence, so be it.
Anyone who wants to discuss the merits of your ideas is bound to get the same kind of treatment as this atheist on an Egyptian TV show:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/11/egyptian-tv-host-to-atheist-we-dont-want-any-atheists-or-infidels-here
Wellington says
I actually spent ten minutes of my time listening to you, Godless, and voegelinian. OMG and WTF! I mean where do I begin?
Gravenimage is, for my money, the single most astute, knowledgeable (and fair) commenter on this site, bar none. Angemon is a damn shrewd and knowledgeable commenter as well, as is Mirren. Now, I don’t deny that Angemon and voegelinian have had their running battles (which frankly I have enjoyed at times), but I must say most of the time Angemon, INMO, has bested voegelinian——not always but most of the time, but so what? Jesus Christ, I can’t believe anyone would take the time to do what you and voegelinian did, which is to engage in a pity-party for voegelinian and to attack, once again, INMO, the single finest commenter here at JW——–gravenimage, who, btw, has not only agreed with voegelinian time and time again but who has actually defended him when others have attacked him.
I can think of about a hundred things, if not a thousand, more important than attacking ravenimage, none of which you engaged in. Instead, you attacked her and I really don’t know if I am more appalled or more amused by such pettiness. I suppose reasonable minds could differ as to which but, sorry to say, you’re excluded here.
I’m with Champ. You owe gravenimage a HUGE apology, though I don’t hold out any hope here because you so far come across as hopeless. I mean there should be a new word invented to describe something worse than pathetic respecting what I just listened to. Right now, I can’t think of one. Holy Hell, JW is not about egos being bruised but combatting what Islam intends for us all. Move on. Quick like. Forever, will ya’. This goes for you too, voegelinian. Done here.
Angemon says
Wellington posted:
“Gravenimage is, for my money, the single most astute, knowledgeable (and fair) commenter on this site, bar none.”
I wouldn’t bet against you, or anyone else, on that matter.
Champ says
Bravo, Wellington! I wholly agree! Graven is such a treasure here on Jihad Watch and she’s kind-hearted, and she certainly **doesn’t** deserve being treated so horribly by voeg & Godless. I’m appalled with both of them. And I wrote Robert this morning about this awful video, and I don’t know if he’s had a chance to view it, yet, due to travel and time constraints. Hopefully Robert will see it soon and remove this ..garbage!
gravenimage says
Thank you so much, Wellington. This means a great deal to me, coming from you.
Champ says
weaselinian wrote:
“Yes, it was a third video, and we talked about gravenimage for a few minutes; but it’s just an introductory chit-chat. Ideally, the Jihad Watch people would travel the arduous journey over to Paltalk to visit and get in on the conversation that needs to take place. Or not.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It’s more than just an “introductory chit-chat” …it’s a 10 minute pity-party featuring voeg-the-victim whining about how unfair he’s being treated over here on Jihad Watch by some of his long, lost friends. “Oh, boo hoo, it isn’t fair, and what happened to all my friends” ad nauseam.
And the only reason voeg would encourage others to join him on Paltalk is to engage in more of the same petty backbiting and strife. No thank you. Voeg’s invitation to have a “conversation that needs to take place”, as he put it, sounds like a nightmare …not to mention, pathetic and sick.
Mirren10 says
Bravo, Wellington and Champ !
I heartily concur with what you say, **especially** about graven, but also about these two ego driven fools, godless and voegelinian.
What a pathetic, bloody waste of time.
Champ, you said;
”It’s more than just an “introductory chit-chat” …it’s a 10 minute pity-party featuring voeg-the-victim whining about how unfair he’s being treated over here on Jihad Watch by some of his long, lost friends.”
Exactly. I can’t make out whether voegelinian is deliberately lying here, or if he is really so self-deluded he actually believes his own hogwash. He did exactly the same on the thread below, pretending what he did was just ”an introductory chit-chat” when in fact it was one long whine and calumny against Angemon.
As Wellington rightly says; ”I really don’t know if I am more appalled or more amused by such pettiness.”
Actually, I think I’m just appalled – when I think of the many times graven *has* defended voegelinian, and her unfailing patience and courtesy. It’s sickening.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/11/canadian-mag-puts-jihad-murderer-on-cover-portrays-him-as-victim/comment-page-1#comment-1322669
Mirren10 says
Incidentally, Wellington, graven noted in a comment, on either this appalling claptrap, or the second, that there was an actual *jihadi* present, one ‘deobandi(minhaj)’, making foul supremacist comments. (haven’t got time to find the actual thread)
voegelinian and godless totally ignored the presence and commentary of this creep, concentrating on the ‘iniquities’ of several of us here at JW.
I think this illustrates perfectly where the priorities of voegelinian and the witless ‘godless’ lie, and it clearly isn’t with fighting **jihad**.
Angemon says
Mirren10 posted:
“Incidentally, Wellington, graven noted in a comment, on either this appalling claptrap, or the second, that there was an actual *jihadi* present, one ‘deobandi(minhaj)’, making foul supremacist comments. (haven’t got time to find the actual thread)
voegelinian and godless totally ignored the presence and commentary of this creep, concentrating on the ‘iniquities’ of several of us here at JW.
I think this illustrates perfectly where the priorities of voegelinian and the witless ‘godless’ lie, and it clearly isn’t with fighting **jihad**.”
This is what I’ve been saying for an year or so – voeg is more preoccupied with the size of his posse and the suppression of anyone criticizing him than with the islamic supremacists he boasts about being “tough” on. Since that makes no sense on a Counter-Jihad paradigm, it stands to reason that whatever it is that drives his actions is not the same as what drives a counter-jihadi. If you stop thinking of voeg as a CJ and start thinking of him as someone who uses the CJ movement as a tool to get notoriety, someone who uses the CJ movement as a means to an end, his actions start making sense – it certainly explains why he is more interested in lying about anyone who criticizes him than in bringing down the barriers of misconceptions raised by islamic apologists.
Godless says
Why would an anti-Islam person like Angemon come to the comments section on JW in order to defend Muslims? And why would the rest of you indirectly defend Islam by opposing people who point out Angemon’s errors?
A lot of you people’s complaints are from projecting or are things that you are more guilty of than Voeg and I are. Nobody has even attempted to actually respond the multiple valid points or the questions posed in the video.
Mirren said “What a pathetic, bloody waste of time”
It took Voeg and I less time to create that video than it did for Wellington and Mirren to type up their posts responding to it.
Champ said “Godless, you owe Graven an *apology* for insulting her the way that you did!”
What insults? I did not call her any names. You people are the ones doing the name-calling. I actually tried to reach out to GravenImage because, as I said in the video, I can see that she actually agrees with me. She just puts her social life on the internet in JW comments section before the counter-Jihad. I was attempting to make her see this because I recognize she is more valuable than you people.
You people owe me an apology for your obtuse attacks on my well-intentioned attempts to wake up this counter-Jihad community.
Champ also said “And I wrote Robert this morning about this awful video, and I don’t know if he’s had a chance to view it, yet, due to travel and time constraints. Hopefully Robert will see it soon and remove this ..garbage!”
You want to censor us? This is surreal. Are you joking? A member of the counter-Jihad speaking against free speech. You are behaving like a Muslim. Asking for a video to be removed because you don’t like its content. Exactly as if you were a Muslim calling for the censorship of a Mohammad video. And if Spencer does accommodate you he is just like the leftist mainstream media censoring out a Mohammad cartoon in order to appease Muslims.
You might as well threaten to behead me.
Angemon says
Godless posted:
“Why would an anti-Islam person like Angemon come to the comments section on JW in order to defend Muslims? ”
The manner in which I’m allegedly “defending muslims” is never addressed or explained. The oracle has spoken, and one does not question the oracle, one simply accepts its words as they are – leave your brain at the door, or else…
“And why would the rest of you indirectly defend Islam by opposing people who point out Angemon’s errors?”
What errors would those be? Where were they pointed out? By whom? Again, questions without answer – the oracle has spoken and one does not question the oracle. The implication here is of a “guilty by association” fallacy – if you criticize the people who are desperately trying to tar me with all manner of insane, unsubstantiated accusations then you are “indirectly defending islam”. And you don’t want to defend islam, do you? You don’t want to be tarred as “defending muslims” in a future video, do you?
“A lot of you people’s complaints are from projecting or are things that you are more guilty of than Voeg and I are.”
Tu quoque is a logical fallacy, you know? And, of course, none of the complaints gets addressed, they’re simply dismissed out of hand. Rebutting criticism? Who do you think Godless and voeg are, reasonable people trying to engage in an good-faithed discussion?
“Nobody has even attempted to actually respond the multiple valid points or the questions posed in the video.”
Apparently these alleged “valid points” don’t translate well into text. Or maybe they are not there at all. But the oracle has spoken, and it said they exist, and one does no question the oracle, lest you want to get accused of “counseling softness” or “defending muslims”.
“It took Voeg and I less time to create that video than it did for Wellington and Mirren to type up their posts responding to it. ”
Do you know how fast Wellington or Mirren type?
“You people owe me an apology for your obtuse attacks”
No, they don’t. If anyone owes someone apologies it’s you and voeg. Especially to me, with GI coming as a close second.
“on my well-intentioned attempts to wake up this counter-Jihad community. ”
Wake up to what? That never gets explained. Because it’s just empty rhetoric, like “hope and change” or “yes, we can”.
“You want to censor us? This is surreal. Are you joking? A member of the counter-Jihad speaking against free speech. You are behaving like a Muslim. ”
This is hilarious coming from the people who are hellbent on silencing dissenting voices via bullying, oppression and public shaming. If you disagree with anything they say you get insulted and lied about. Oh, you want to delete the link to a video where they insult and lie about other people? Someone call the whambulance, they’re being oppressed!
“And if Spencer does accommodate you he is just like the leftist mainstream media censoring out a Mohammad cartoon in order to appease Muslims.”
Mr. Spencer usually removes posts that call for genocide. Does this means he’s “just like the leftist mainstream media”? Of course not. In any case, this is a perfect example of the public shaming I mentioned above – if you don’t like Saruman and WormTongue’s videos dedicated to insult and smear others then you’re just a big meanie who wants to censor and take away their right to freely express themselves, even though there are already laws in place to check free speech, and those laws state that lies are not covered by free speech.
“You might as well threaten to behead me.”
Oh, the Humanity! Talk about a drama queen… I bet you face greater chances of being beheaded on a windy day* than by anything anyone says online.
*It’s because your head is as empty as your vile accusations, and therefore it can be ripped out by a stronger gust of wind. It’s not funny if I have to explain it, but I wanted to make you understood it.
Angemon says
voegelinian’s mouthpiece posted:
“You want to censor us? This is surreal. Are you joking? A member of the counter-Jihad speaking against free speech.”
Freedom of speech means the Government can’t arrest you for disagreeing with what you say. It doesn’t mean that third-parties have to listen to the crap you spout or are under the obligation to host it.
In any case, go shout “I have a gun and I’m going to kill you all” in a crowded theater, and claim “free speech”. See how that works out for you
Jay Boo says
AUDIO DUBBING
I suspect that Godless audio is nothing butt a composite of audio cut and paste dubbing by the vainglorious voegelinian.
That would assume of course, that voegelinian would have to be an absolute anal-retentive jerk to make such an pathetic effort.
Not a great leap of assumption — just a baby bunny hop down one of voeg’s many rabbit holes.
Angemon says
Godless posted:
“No GravenImage. This is a new video created especially for you. We are hoping to get through to you.”
Now, I’m just an “asymptotic”, “softy”, a “fucktard” who “defends muslims”, or whatever it is you are calling me today, but I think the best way to “get through” to someone is to engage them in a medium that allows both sides to communicate with one another – some sort of duplex communication system where both sides can relay their messages in a way that lets the other party to check them at their own leisure. Like pinning a message on a bulletin board – a message board or something like that. Is there something like a bulletin board on the internet where people can interact and leave messages for one another? Some place where they can comment and interact with one another unrestricted by the need to be online in a specific time slot (damn you, timezones!)? Inquiring minds want to know!|
Wellington says
First of all, Godless, Angemon doesn’t defend Muslims. He defends the law respecting knowledge of which voegelinian seems determined to remain invincibly ignorant.
Second, none of us regular commenters here defend Islam. That is an absurd charge. Truly baseless. For instance, both gravenimage and I have on numerous occasions indicated that we despise Islam.
Third, I would contend that it is an insult to tell someone to “wake up” as you did in your 12:11 P.M. post of yesterday to gravenimage. And, as gravenimage herself said, wake up to what? She fully comprehends the Islamic threat, at least as much as anyone else here at JW and she has better things to do than defend voegelinian’s fragile ego, though she has done this many times although voeelinian has, to my knowledge, shown no appreciation for this.
Finally, no one owes you an apology. This is just more self-pity on display and, actually, I hope the video is not removed. I hope many others listen to it, assuming they can bear it. It can stand as testimony to silliness. And to leap from Champ asserting the video ought to be removed to concluding that we “might as well threaten to behead”: you is risible almost beyond description. Your head’s not that valuable so don’t flatter yourself and trust me when I tell you that the only people who want to behead you are Muzzies.
Champ says
Godless wrote:
And if Spencer does accommodate you he is just like the leftist mainstream media censoring out a Mohammad cartoon in order to appease Muslims.
You might as well threaten to behead me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Like it, or not, Robert does remove comments–along with other objectionable material–from time to time. And hes been doing this for years. This is his forum, and it’s his prerogative to remove material that is even off-topic. Complain about it all you want, and accuse him of being “like the leftist mainstream media”–which is completely absurd! Nevertheless Robert can remove whatever he wants to.
I brought this horrible video to Robert’s attention because not only is it grossly off-topic, but that silly video is nothing more than a smear-campaign against Graven, and others, too. I want it removed, others want it up, but Robert gets to make the final decision.
As far as this claim goes …”You might as well threaten to behead me.” This **preposterous** comment only reveals just how desperate Godless must be to make a point, and that she lacks good judgement and basic common sense (of course, Godless also demonstrated that she lacks these qualities based upon the insulting things Godless stated about Graven in that awful video).
So, yes, this comment from Godless goes beyond the pale; and again, it’s utterly **preposterous** for Godless to arrive at such a wrongheaded conclusion: “You might as well threaten to behead me.”
Wow the only other times I’ve read such a nonsensical comment–like this one from Godless–is when this ridiculous response is offered up by muslims and/or muslim apologists on Jihad Watch. Things that make you go, hmm …
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wellington wrote:
And to leap from Champ asserting the video ought to be removed to concluding that we “might as well threaten to behead”: you is risible almost beyond description. Your head’s not that valuable so don’t flatter yourself and trust me when I tell you that the only people who want to behead you are Muzzies.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Indeed, Wellington. This ridiculous remark from Godless is *completely* laughable. And you’re right, the only monsters intent on beheading other people are muslims. Godless has demonstrated just how ‘low’ she will go to try and make a point–which she failed at accomplishing, anyway. And the only thing that Godless, and voeg, have demonstrated, is that they both lack common decency and respect for other’s–and for Robert’s forum and his hard work.
Voeg can exercise his right to free speech and feature his pity-party video on his own forum. Why bring it here? No one here cares. I repeat, voeg and Godless are not demonstrating any form of common decency.
And voeg just as easily could have contacted Graven privately to work this out. But no, voeg and Godless must instead publicly humiliate Graven on Jihad Watch to “get through to her”? What! They only thing that voeg and Godless conveyed is just how *low* people are willing to go. Of course they could stoop even lower, but I don’t even want to go there …
Mirren10 says
@ godless.
Champ, Wellington, and Angemon have already admirably and eloquently deconstructed your self-pitying nonsense, but I would like to *emphasise* one point.
You said, in reply to Champ stating she had asked Robert to remove the video;
”You want to censor us? This is surreal. Are you joking? A member of the counter-Jihad speaking against free speech. You are behaving like a Muslim. Asking for a video to be removed because you don’t like its content. Exactly as if you were a Muslim calling for the censorship of a Mohammad video. And if Spencer does accommodate you he is just like the leftist mainstream media censoring out a Mohammad cartoon in order to appease Muslims.”
I will point out to you that this is a privately owned blog, and the owner is Mr Spencer. **He is under no obligation to provide you with a platform for your nonsense and attempted defamation of others, anymore than he is obligated to invite an islamic supremacist into his living room to harangue him.**
Champ is perfectly within her rights to ask Robert to remove your spiteful little videos, as they have nothing to do with fighting jihad, and everything to do with attacking those who dare to disagree with you. And as she also made perfectly clear, the decision to do so or otherwise will be made by Mr Spencer, not any of us.
I, however, agree with Wellington. The videos stand, as he says, as ”a testament to silliness”, and I would also add, as a testament to self-pitying whining.
Angemon says
Mirren10 posted:
“Champ is perfectly within her rights to ask Robert to remove your spiteful little videos”
Voeg’s videos. Godless may be the useful idiot who posts the links and deals with the replies they elicit, but voeg is the, *ahem*, “mastermind” behind them.
Wellington says
A hearty thank you to you, Champ, and to Mirren and Angemon as well, for coming to the defense of gravenimage, who actually doesn’t need any defense since the power of her thought can take on all comers and stand on its own, but it’s heartwarming nonetheless to see people support a person who has been unjustifiably and stupidly defamed.
Hope you and yours are doing well, Champ. Take good care.
voegelinian says
Champ also said “And I wrote Robert this morning about this awful video…”
Good God; Spencer has more important things to do, one reasonably expects, than to be bothered by harmless little videos of harmless little conversations in harmless little chat rooms, for fuck sake.
Angemon says
voegelinian posted:
“Good God; Spencer has more important things to do, one reasonably expects, than to be bothered by harmless little videos of harmless little conversations in harmless little chat rooms, for fuck sake”
Like, for example, making sure that self-entitled, narrow-minded, spiteful buffoons aren’t ruining the experience for everyone else with their pathological obsession over a handful of other users.
gravenimage says
Thanks for the kind comments from so many here. I truly appreciate this.
And Mirren wrote:
Incidentally, Wellington, graven noted in a comment, on either this appalling claptrap, or the second, that there was an actual *jihadi* present, one ‘deobandi(minhaj)’, making foul supremacist comments. (haven’t got time to find the actual thread)
…………………….
Here’s the link:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/11/german-teachers-union-warns-girls-to-stay-away-from-muslim-migrant-men/comment-page-1#comment-1322853
gravenimage says
Godless wrote, re myself:
She just puts her social life on the internet in JW comments section before the counter-Jihad.
…………………………
This is *absolute calumny*, Godless. I have always endeavored to completely honest here, whether it was “popular” or not.
I have also many times defended Voegelinian here, when I thought his ideas had merit–no matter how disagreeable he may have made himself personally. Even in the sort time you have been reading here, I think you must have seen this.
More:
I was attempting to make her see this because I recognize she is more valuable than you people.
…………………………
Godless, I’m afraid I can’t take something as a compliment if it is couched in insulting other good people.
As for you conflating someone thinking that your off-topic posting here with threats *to behead you*, this is simply grotesque.
As other posters have noted, this is Robert Spencer[s own site–he decides who comments stand here, and whose do not. If he chooses to remove a post, that does not not mean that the poster in question is deprived of his freedom of speech–just that he is not required to provide a platform for everyone’s random musings or ugly comments.
And to compare Robert Spencer not providing everyone with a platform for venting with threats of beheading completely lacks an understanding of the nature of free speech.
That being said, I would not personally ask for your links to be removed–although I do not believe that they add much to the conversation here re opposing Jihad. And it should be noted that Robert Spencer actually deletes very few comments, unless they are something beyond the pale like calls for violence.
As I have noted previously, I believe Voegelinian to be an intelligent person, and you seem to be, as well–if you were to put your energies to fighting Jihad rather than just keeping up Voeg’s running squabbles, you might have a great deal to offer.
Champ says
voeg wrote:
Good God; Spencer has more important things to do, one reasonably expects, than to be bothered by harmless little videos of harmless little conversations in harmless little chat rooms, for fuck sake.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is rich …now voeg pretends to care about Robert’s time, etc. Wow I don’t whether to laugh or puke!
Voeg has been a thorn in Robert’s side for at least a decade now. He’s been banned at least 5 times, and yet he keeps coming back. He won’t respect Robert’s decision to ban him–over, and over again–and to just take a hike and leave for good. No, he keeps coming back uninvited and unwelcom. So voeg has Robert’s best interest in mind? I don’t think so …
Voeg cares sooo much about Robert and Jihad Watch that he still has that asinine blog up called: Jihad Watch Watch, which caused Robert a lot of angst, and voeg knows this. But now voeg suddenly and supposedly *cares* so much about not disturbing Robert? No he doesn’t. It’s obvious that voeg likes to get under Robert’s skin as much as possible.
Wow it’s all “harmless” fun in voeg’s twisted mind; and notice that he’s attempting to minimize the impact of this awful video on other’s. And based upon results, “harmless” fun was not voeg’s intention. His intention was to publicly humilate and malign Graven, which is precisely what he did, and such actions are **never** “harmless”, but HARMFUL …you heartless, classless, moron!!!
As far as reporting comments, or videos, to Robert–that’s none of voeg’s business. I will continue to report whatever the hell I want to Robert, and whenever I want. Don’t like it? Tough.
Bottom line: Robert has made contacting him available on his forum, and that’s that. And Robert can decide for himself what he has the time for.
Champ says
Hope you and yours are doing well, Champ. Take good care.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thank you, dear Wellington! 🙂
Wishing you and yours the very best, too …
Champ says
Graven wrote:
“…although I do not believe that they add much to the conversation here re opposing Jihad.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Graven, I respectfully disagree with you …
You stated that the video link doesn’t “add much”, but it’s much worse than that, they add absolutely *NOTHING* to the conversation here on Jihad Watch, and they are completely off-topic.
I still think these awful videos, from voeg, do NOT belong here on Jihad Watch. They should either be tossed in the garbage–where they belong–or posted on voeg’s own blog, which is essentially the same thing.
Take care, my friend 🙂
Champ says
Mirren10 wrote:
Champ is perfectly within her rights to ask Robert to remove your spiteful little videos, as they have nothing to do with fighting jihad, and everything to do with attacking those who dare to disagree with you. And as she also made perfectly clear, the decision to do so or otherwise will be made by Mr Spencer, not any of us.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Indeed, Mirren10!
Thank you for mentioning my right to contact Robert (although this should have been obvious to these two knuckleheads: voeg & godless); and also for being the voice of reason regarding why I contacted Robert regarding these horrible videos in the first place. And, yes, what you pointed out is *precisely* why I wrote Robert.
Again–thank you! 🙂
gravenimage says
Champ wrote:
You stated that the video link doesn’t “add much”, but it’s much worse than that, they add absolutely *NOTHING* to the conversation here on Jihad Watch, and they are completely off-topic.
…………………………
True, Champ–I was doing what is know as “damning with faint praise” here.
That being said, I personally wouldn’t ask for the links to be deleted, since I think they are very telling about where Voeg and Godless are coming from. I also believe deletions should be done sparingly, and generally only when they involve calls for violence.
But they are certainly off topic, and Robert Spencer has made it quite clear that comments can be removed for this reason.
In any case, It’s Robert’s call.
And Champ, thanks for all your support here.
Champ says
Graven wrote:
But they are certainly off topic, and Robert Spencer has made it quite clear that comments can be removed for this reason.
In any case, It’s Robert’s call.
And Champ, thanks for all your support here.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Graven, thank you for mentioning this, since Robert has, in fact, stated that anything off-topic is at risk of being removed. This is his forum, and his rules. And, of course, I also agree that it’s Robert’s call what will be deleted.
And you’re welcome, my dear friend! I will always have your back 🙂 xo
Champ says
Graven, I fail to see how publicly humiliating you with this horrible video on Jihad Watch–along with the numerous verbal **insults** aimed at you, by Godless–are suppose to “get through to you”. Do you?
Actually, voeg and Godless humiliated themselves.
Godless says
Don McKellar says
Wow, I made the mistake of clicking on this video — the most petty and pathetic of little dramas. I had no idea there were people wasting their time in this way, but I suppose even a site like JIhad Watch — a site on the most important issue of our time — is going to have a few drama queens in the readership. Imagine if all that time and mental energy spent were used towards combating Islamic supremacists — even just setting the record straight on news comments sections across the internet, as one example that anybody can do — how much might be accomplished by even a single individual. But instead it all goes to waste on in-fighting personal politics “let’s talk about so and so…” What a retard.
Champ says
Bravo, Don!! Well put, and I couldn’t agree more.
gravenimage says
Imagine if all that time and mental energy spent were used towards combating Islamic supremacists
…………………
So true, Don.
More Ham Ed says
You could move your mic a little farther away from your keyboard, and mention ME, I like drama too ya’ know. If you serve ham sandwiches maybe I’ll come over for a visit. But probably not. I’m independent. MORE HAM.
Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY) says
“It is not permissible for a woman who believes in Allah and the Last Day to allow someone into her husband’s house if he is opposed, or to go out if he is averse.” (Umdat al-Salik, M10.4)
What is this “Last Day”? Anybody got a concordance to the Quran to look up where in the Quran this term is defined? Why is it capitalized? Last day of *what*? If a wife stops believing in the Last Day, may she leave her husband’s house even if he is opposed? What if the wife doesn’t even know what the Last Day is?
It’s too bad that most of this article about Mr. Ba and Ms. Sall is behind a paywall. The rest of the article might explain how a native of a foreign country came to work for a city government, and what he does. Does he have an H-1B visa?
gravenimage says
The “Last Day” just refers to “end times”–it is similar to the Christian view of end times–except that it involves “Jesus” in an orgy of murdering unbelievers.
But saying that someone “believes in Allah and the Last Day” just means they are a pious Muslim–and a pious Muslimah has to stay imprisoned by her husband if that’s what he wants.
And this is not just a gratuitous whim on his part–“Purdah”; including full veiling, segregation, and being unable to travel without a “Mehram” (male Muslim owner), as well as never being allowed to leave the house–is an intrinsic part of Islam.
Here’s Islam Q and A, the most widely read English-language Islamic website:
“The first mistake was going out of the house without your husband’s permission, and the second was travelling without a mahram.
“Going out of the house without the husband’s permission is a haraam action…”
http://islamqa.info/en/69937
Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY) says
Thank you, gravenimage, for finding that islamqa citation, and for your explanation of “Last Day”. About “Last Day”, your explanation is clear enough, but how does the Quran define this term (and in what aya)? And while we’re at it, who is this “Allah” character who keeps popping up in the Quran? That is a serious question: Where does the Quran define this all-important term? Or is “Allah” an undefined term, like “point” in Euclidean geometry?
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
I think that the hairy Companions sitting at the Holy Prophet’s feet listening to his endless lectures understood that Allah was Mohammed’s alter ego, or better put his altar ego. But to have brought that up would’ve meant immediate death, so everybody kept their mouths shut. And why not? At the time dudes who just a year or two earlier were on the edge of starvation were raking in big money, being granted great plots of land, and even burgeoning sex harems of 11 yr old girls. So there was no reason to criticize. Thus Allah was born, and he is now by far the most important God.
gravenimage says
Thanks, Mark.
I had assumed your questions would be easy to answer–that some good Anti-Jihadists–perhaps WikiIslam–would have provided cogent links on both the Last Days and Allah–or at least that some crazed Mohammedans would have put together something similar. Alas, it seems this is not the case.
The best I can do right now is give you the link to Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_eschatology
But this is so bland it really doesn’t give you an idea of how vicious this whole concept is, which includes the “Dajjal” (“antichrist” or devil), who is generally assumed to be Jewish; trees and rocks betraying Jews who are hiding behind them so that pious Muslims can murder them all; and “Jesus”–really, “Isa”–“breaking the cross and killing the pigs”–doing away with dhimmitude–and slaughtering any Christians who balk at converting to Islam.
It’s also too bad there is not more available in concise form on this subject, since Islamic Eschatology is extremely important as a factor in the waging of violent Jihad.
Many Muslims believe that they can hasten the return of the Mahdi through, among other things, founding the Caliphate, murdering Infidels, and butchering “heretics” (other-sect Muslims, especially Sunnis vs Shia).
For instance, ISIS has named its recruiting magazine Dabiq, after the small town in Syria where the Mahdi and Isa are supposed to join forces to destroy the last line of defense for Christians, after which they will be utterly unprotected.
Ugly, ugly stuff.
And here’s a place to start on Allah:
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/p/allah.html
But even the usually excellent Answering Muslims site does not really give a clear sens of what a truly vicious deity Allah is–but it has some good links for further research.
Hope this helps somewhat.
These are important questions, Mark–I might see if I can put together something more complete myself.
Does anyone else have some good references on these subjects?
Carolyne says
I don’t know what Mr. Ba does at Oak Ridge, but I don’t think he should be allowed within 50 miles of that city. I live nearby. That’s where the US has it’s nuclear installations manufacturing nuclear weapons in a top secret area. I wouldn’t trust a Muslim anywhere around there.
But then, one of Hillary Clinton’s top aides is a member of the Muslim Sisterhood, her father having been one of the originators of the Muslim Brotherhood. She worked in the State Department under Clinton in a top position. She is with her now and will be if Clinton becomes President. She was born in Michigan, but was taken to her parents’ native country, Saudi Arabia, at a young age and returned only to attend Georgetown University at which time she became one of the Clintons’ interns. She married a Jewish Congressman who’s hobby was posting nude pictures of himself on the internet, calling himself Captain Danger. She stayed with him. True love and all……..
Why she is sacrosanct I can’t imagine, but it is not PC to point all of this out. I am not PC however.
I believe with Hillary that there is a vast conspiracy, but not on the Right. It is a Muslim conspiracy, aided and abetted by some of our top government officials, in fact, the very top.
PRCS says
Note, too, that Ba is also a reserve Sheriff, is an Army reservist, and his wife was in the country illegally.
I wonder if any part of his salaries from any of those three agencies was based upon that marriage.
Issues about which red flags should pop up as a result of this spousal abuse situation.
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
Kudos to the thousands of professional feminists (college professors) here in America who have shown the intellectual and personal bravery to publish criticism not only of current day sexism and misogyny, but also the abuse of women commanded in the Holy Ko-Ran. You go, girls!
Some of these gutsy spokeswomen should be interviewed on Ellen or maybe The View.
Davegreybeard says
You betcha.
Just as soon as we can locate one of these mythical females.
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
My suggestion is that we rake the payrolls of the country’s Womens Studies departments and then cross reference the names to notable publications in academic journals, magazines, newspapers and blogs. Then we’d have our answer.
It’s like with Unicorns: We know they are there, it’s just so hard to find one.
Walter Sieruk says
To do thing about the possible danger of Sharia law being set up in America is to contact the site bansharialaw.com
Mahendra Singh says
Deceptive Caption “Muslim City” of Oak Ridge? If my memory serves me right
Oak Ridge (near Knoxville) was a center for nuclear research
gravenimage says
Mahendra Singh wrote:
Deceptive Caption “Muslim City” of Oak Ridge? If my memory serves me right
Oak Ridge (near Knoxville) was a center for nuclear research
…………………………..
Dear Mr. Singh, this caption is not “deceptive”–you are simply reading it wrong.
Here’s the actual headline:
“Tennessee: Muslim City of Oak Ridge employee kept wife virtual prisoner under Sharia law”
The word “Muslim” is not modifying “City of Oak Ridge”–it is modifying “employee”.
In other words, it is saying that an Oak Ridge employee, who is Muslim, has been keeping his wife a virtual prisoner. It is not saying that the city of Oak Ridge is Muslim.
Carolyne says
I thought the same thing, Mr. Singh, until I reread it. It is clumsily written.
Michael Copeland says
The track record of muslim women applying for divorce is not a pretty one. They tend to be beheaded by their insulted owners, as with the couple running Bridges TV: he used a sword.
Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY) says
No, not a sword, a hunting knife. See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzzammil_Hassan
Michael Copeland says
Thank you for the correction.
Shaima Alawadi was clubbed to death with a tire iron. accompanied by a bogus hate note. Robert Spencer was accused of fomenting the anti-muslim hate.
gravenimage says
All true–I hope Madina Sall won’t meet the same fate.
I hope Oak Ridge authorities are savvy enough to realize the danger she is in–but given their having hired this oppressive and violent Mohammedan for a variety of sensitive city positions, I would *not* count on it.
mortimer says
In Islam, women are the ‘prisoners’ of men. Every woman has a jailer. This is not a theory, but the eternal words of Allah and last words of Mohammed his final prophet. However, absurd it seems to modern Westerners that women are ‘prisoners’ or alternately ‘domestic animals’ of men (Arabic: ’awan), one billion Muslims accept that women have a lesser status to men and that that status may never be upgraded to full equality.
In Mecca, Mohammed spent little time talking about women. Women received no separate, special treatment, but by the end of his career in Medina, that had changed. By the end of his life, Mohammed’s views on women had changed so radically that in his last sermon, Mohammed declared that women were the ‘domestic animals’ or ‘prisoners’ of Muslim men.
Iyas b. Abdullah reported God’s messenger as saying, “Do not beat God’s handmaidens;” but when `Umar came to God’s messenger and said, “The women have become emboldened towards their husbands,” he gave license to beat them. Then many women went round God’s messenger’s family complaining of their husbands, and he said, “Many women have gone around complaining of their husbands. Those are not the best among you.” Abu Dawud, Ibn Majah, and Darimi transmitted it. (Mishkat Al-Masabih: vol. 2, p. 692)
For Mohammed, women were the absolute property of a man, having a similar status to a house pet or someone under house arrest. This is only slightly better than the status of a slave. A slave in Islam is only slightly more oppressed than a Muslim woman. Muslim men benefit from this unequal status and have no interest in extending equal status to women. Moreover, Islamic inequality comes from Allah, so it is perfect and eternal. Equality of the sexes is blasphemous because it is ‘man-made’ and contradicts the words of Allah/Mohammed.
Allah later told Muhammad that beating was part of the process for controlling a rebellious wife…opportunistically.
The man is the final judge on whether a beating is deserved.
`Umar reported the Prophet as saying, “A man will not be asked about why he beat his wife.” Abu Dawud and Ibn Majah transmitted it. (Mishkat Al-Masabih: vol. 2, p. 693)
Did women suffer in MOHAMMED’S time? Mohammed’s child bride, Aisha said they suffered greatly: “I have not seen women who suffer as much as believing (Muslim) women.”
Islam authorizes the violent suppression of women. Islam is inherently and systemically misogynistic and should be banned in all civilized countries.
gravenimage says
Important comments, Mortimer–thanks.
gravenimage says
Madina Sall is also apparently the victim of a forced marriage:
……………………
Does this surprise anyone? And this Muslim creep purchased here for $2000.
And Ardo Isma Ba is not just electric project manager for the city of Oak Ridge–I’m sure he could do some damage there–but also has is also a reserve officer with the Knox County Sheriff’s Office and is in the Army Reserve.
He can’t claim ignorance of the law–but as a pious Muslim, he clearly considers himself above the law of the “filthy Infidels”.
The only question is whether he has been fired and drummed out of the Army Reserve.