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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Robert Spencer at Breitbart: “Allahu akbar” doesn’t mean what media says it means

Dec 25, 2015 6:46 pm By Robert Spencer

Over at Breitbart today I explain how the phrase “Allahu akbar” means almost everything — except what the establishment media says it means:

Media outlets routinely mangle the true meaning of “Allahu akbar,” the ubiquitous battle cry of Islamic jihadists as they commit mass murder.

The war-cry is mistranslated in the Western media as “God is great.” But the actual meaning is “Allah is greater,” meaning Allah Is Greater Than Your God or Government.

It is the aggressive declaration that Allah and Islam are dominant over every other form of government, religion, law or ethic, which is why Islamic jihadists in the midst of killing infidels so often shout it.

One primary purpose of shouting is to “strike terror in the hearts of the enemies of Allah.”

Chief 9/11 hijacker Mohammed Atta made this explicit in his letter to himself before carrying out his jihad mission: “When the confrontation begins, strike like champions who do not want to go back to this world. Shout, ‘Allahu Akbar,’ because this strikes fear in the hearts of the non-believers.” This is why the Fort Hood jihad killer, Nidal Malik Hasan, shouted it as he shot thirteen Americans in November 2009, and why so many other jihadis have used it essentially as an announcement that non-Muslims are about to die.

But it is also frequently used when no infidels are within earshot. According to Islam, Allah is sovereign and dominant over all things, and controls everything. His control is so absolute he decides if unbelievers reject Islam, according to the Qur’an.“If we had willed, We could have given every soul its guidance,” but instead, “I will surely fill Hell with jinn and people all together.”

This sovereignty over absolutely everything leads the willing slaves of this god to exclaim “Allahu akbar” in a multitude of apparently contradictory situations:

“Allahu akbar” can be a declaration of joy and gratitude to Allah, as in this video, when the jihadis shout it after shooting down a helicopter, with particular vibrancy when the helicopter bursts into flames. It can also be an expression of grief and anger, as in this video, in which Syrians exclaim it as an airstrike hits their village.

This video of a failed rocket launch illustrates the variety of uses.

As the rocket begins to ignite, and then launches, only to travel a couple of feet and explode in their own compound, the watching jihadis shout “Allahu akbar!” repeatedly, like characters in Orwell’s 1984 book who are restricted by Newspeak to think only thoughts that can be expressed by a few permitted words.

First come the fervent “Please-make-it-work” “Allahu akbars,” and then the excited “Wow-its-working!” “Allahu akbars,” followed by, as the rocket fails, the resigned “Too bad” “Allahu akbars,” the apologetic “We’re-sorry-please-forgive-us” and the reassuring “Allah still is on our team” “Allahu akbars.”

In contrast, a group of free Christian or post-Christian Westerners would have appealed to diligence, effort, luck and science — “Be careful!” “Go!” “Sh..,” and finally, “Back to the drawing board.”

In Islam, the outcome actually determined by human choice, math, probability, luck and machinery are all under Allah’s control, and so the most appropriate thing to say no matter what happens is…Allahu akbar.

In terms of its connotation, then, “Allahu akbar” can mean just about anything — except the one phrase it is most often rendered as in English, “God is great.”

Even though “Allah” means “the God” and is used by most Arabic-speaking Christians to refer to the God of Christianity, when jihadis use the phrase, they mean to emphasize the superiority of Islam and its god – hence it would be more precise to leave the word untranslated and render the phrase “Allah is greater” in English.

And to say “God is great” in Arabic would require a different word — Allahu kabir, because akbar is the elative, or comparative and superlative, form of kabir.

Thus a Christian equivalent of “Allahu akbar” would not be “Jesus is great” or, to use an actual Christian phrase, “Jesus is Lord.’ In its variety of connotations and uses, it corresponds roughly to the Evangelical/Pentecostal use of “Praise the Lord”; however, that phrase contains none of the notions of superiority that are inherent in “Allahu akbar.”

If the Christian terrorists of media myth ever became reality and were casting about for a phrase they could use the way Muslims use “Allahu akbar,” they might shout something like “In hoc signo vinces.” That’s the Roman Emperor Constantine’s fourth-century vision of victory under the Christian Cross — In this sign conquer — shortly before he won the Empire-changing battle of the Milvian Bridge.

But in “Allahu akbar,” Islamic conquest is simultaneously asserted and assumed – and the Latin phrase has none of the compactness nor the multiple-meanings of “Allahu akbar.”

Nor does any Christian phrase carry any of the whiff of threat and menace that “Allahu akbar” possesses.

When “Allahu akbar” was found scrawled on the fuel tank of an airliner in Paris just weeks after the Paris jihad massacre of November 2015, the threat was unmistakable. Whoever wrote it wanted, in Atta’s words, to “strikes fear in the hearts of the non-believers.”

As jihadis the world over scream “Allahu akbar” as they begin killing infidels, there is no doubt that this phrase does indeed, all too often, strike terror into the hearts of unbelievers: the superiority of the god of Islam is asserted in blood.

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Comments

  1. eduardo odraude says

    Dec 25, 2015 at 7:40 pm

    Interesting account of how alahu akbar can be used in many ways. Robert Spencer, can it be translated also as “Allah is greatest” ?

    • Alarmed Pig Farmer says

      Dec 25, 2015 at 8:35 pm

      Allah is greater was his point. It’s a comparative that states that the Moslem God is better than any other God. Islam is a corrective belief system that teaches that other religions are a mistake, a misinterpretation that makes the Allah God furiously angry with the command to destroy all other Gods by killing converting or subjugating believers of non-Allah Gods, or pagans, or atheists.

      • eduardo odraude says

        Dec 25, 2015 at 11:43 pm

        Spencer wrote that it was comparative AND superlative. That is why I ask if it can mean greatest as well as greater. Spencer:

        …to say “God is great” in Arabic would require a different word — Allahu kabir, because akbar is the elative, or comparative and superlative, form of kabir.

        Here is a definition of the “elative” from Wikipedia:

        In Semitic languages, the “adjective of superiority.” In some languages such as Arabic, the concepts of comparative and superlative degree of an adjective are merged into a single form, the elative. How this form is understood or translated depends upon context and definiteness. In the absence of comparison, the elative conveys the notion of “greatest”, “supreme.”

        • Alarmed Pig Farmer says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 7:22 am

          If a God is greater than any other, then that God is greatest, which indeed amounts to a superlative. But there are two phrases we see on TV, and they differ: Allah akbar = God is great, and Allahu akbar = God is greater (than your God).

      • Sabri S. says

        Dec 26, 2015 at 12:18 am

        Allah u akbar means god is great…plain and simple.
        It is no different from “Jesus is lord”. How people
        use it can be negative or positive. Real mu slims use
        It in a positive sense only to please god. Infect truth,
        Not bigotry.

        • Vepr 12 gauge says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 2:52 am

          NO! Allah hu akbar means Allah is greater. Robert is correct. And you are a liar.

          Allah is great would be translated as ‘Allah hu kabir’. ‘Great translates to Kabir’. And that is not what they say.

          So no bigotry here, just educated people armed against you lying muslim hounds. God, there is not a single word of truth that comes from the mouth of a muslim!

        • Stefaan Devolder says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 3:09 am

          In your interpretation, it might be. Praise the Lord for that. But in linguistic terms Robert is correct and has done his homework.

        • Paul says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 6:16 am

          Yes, but what “pleases” your ‘god’ and why is “allahu
          akbar” always shouted when people are murdered?
          Maybe it’s when those who displease your so-called god
          are dealt with in a brutal way :

          Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. – Sura 2:98
          On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. – Sura 2:161
          Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. – 2:216
          O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are
          friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends
          is one of them. Allah does not guide an unjust people. – 5:54
          Allah has cursed the unbelievers and proposed for them a blazing
          hell. – 33:60
          Unbelievers are enemies of Allah and they will roast in hell. – 41:14

          Your ‘allah’ is obsessed with hell and knows so much about it.
          That’s because he’s the devil. You follow the devil and want to
          deceive others about the true nature of islam. You are deceived
          and you aim to deceive.

        • Paul says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 6:19 am

          Obviously, the above are just a few taken from many many
          hateful verses. Please don’t give me BS about “context” either.

        • Nabil says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 8:42 am

          A lesson in Arabic:

          kebeer means great or large

          Akbar means greater or larger. It is a comparison between TWO objects. One is greater than the other one.

          al Akbar means greatest or largest. It is the supreme. One is the greatest than all others.

          Muslims confuse everything as usual when they are faced with criticism that they cannot defend logically.

        • bill swarz says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 11:30 am

          While working in the Middle East I was told by my Moslem friends that it means “our God is greater than your god.”

        • Mo says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 2:52 pm

          @ Sabri S.

          “Allah u akbar means god is great…plain and simple.
          It is no different from “Jesus is lord”. How people
          use it can be negative or positive. Real mu slims use
          It in a positive sense only to please god. Infect truth,
          Not bigotry.”

          First of all, how is telling facts considered bigotry? Secondly, how can one “infect truth”.

          Perhaps like you’ve done here? LOL!

          We have read your Koran. We know what your ideology teaches.

          And we will NOT submit.

        • GWS says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 3:48 pm

          Read Spencer again. The meaning is “Allah is greater or greatest” There were 359 other gods in the Kaaba not counting Yahweh and all the others outside of Islam. Don’t mistake him.

        • gravenimage says

          Dec 28, 2015 at 8:10 pm

          The meretricious Sabri S. wrote:

          Allah u akbar means god is great…plain and simple.
          It is no different from “Jesus is lord”. How people
          use it can be negative or positive. Real mu slims use
          It in a positive sense only to please god. Infect truth,
          Not bigotry.
          ……………………………..

          What rot. Not only is it clear linguistically that “Allahu Akbar” means “Allah is greater (than your god)”, but we see every day how Muslims use this phrase–to threaten and terrify their victims, often while physically attacking them.

          Christians don’t attack people yelling “Jesus is lord”.

        • Pam says

          Dec 31, 2015 at 7:13 am

      • Miao Zedong says

        Dec 26, 2015 at 3:56 am

        Gott is “greater”.

        In my humble secularists opinion I tend to consider it a blasphemous outcry.

        It implies some doubts in the greatness of the believers “god”, which can only be sooted by constantly reaffirming the superiority of ones god over the other in battle. No direct observation is possible, hence the hand of god (jihadi) vicariously delivers the “proof of concept”.

        The comparison itself is even more ridiculous (99 names of allah) as it implies that an entity, the creator of the universe and as such never part of the universe and its laws and properties. Comparing such an entity in terms of sizes – that makes the humble secularist laugh.

        If at least muslims kept shouting “god is greater than mohammed” it would acknowledge the concept of monotheism. I know it sounds far fetched but changing by muslims BEHAVIOUR, not theology, islam has created the trinity of allah (god), mohammed (jesus) and the koran (holy spirit”.

        I’m still enjoying the charm of christmas season, hence all the best to your families, “happy hanuka” for the jewish believers and all other spiritually minded people all over the world that keep on dreaming of a better world…

        • Miao Zedong says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 3:58 am

          …”far fetched but JUDGING by muslims behaviour..”.

          (still wish that comments will be editable on day.)

      • gabi says

        Dec 27, 2015 at 9:30 am

        Well, if “Allah is greater” and we, Christians, know VERY WELL that only one entity claimed that he is greater than God – Lucifer/Satan – becomes logical who Allah really is!

    • cjk says

      Dec 25, 2015 at 9:30 pm

      NO !!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Stefaan Devolder says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 3:06 am

      Yes it can be. Akbar can indeed mean greater or greatest. The implied meaning that allah is better than the rest stays however the same.

    • Mischief Maker in the Land says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 4:17 am

      Take beer!
      Oo Aah, at bar!

    • Christianblood says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 7:26 am

      Allahu akbar is an evil word of islamic war cry. It is the evil word they shout when they are mass-murdering innocent victims or stoning them to death.

      • abad says

        Dec 26, 2015 at 1:01 pm

        That is why they are all regarded as psychos.

        Islam needs to be removed from the western world.

    • Cthulhu says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 7:44 pm

      Allah is a grater! 😉

    • Champ ✿ says

      Dec 28, 2015 at 9:35 pm

      LOL!!! Good one, Jat! 😀

  2. mortimer says

    Dec 25, 2015 at 7:56 pm

    I believe ‘Allah akbar’ orginates in ‘ALLAT CHABAR’…the great goddess…the Mighty Aphrodite…the great and morning star Astarte…the Arabian fertility goddess…who gives Islam the STAR inside the MOON in the Islamic symbol.

    When Mohammedans fought the worshipers of ALLAT…they cried Allah Akbar…meaning ‘Allah is GREATER than ALLAT (the goddess).

    It is an expression of male chauvinism. Feminists, take note: Islam is based on the subjugation of women.

    The Kaaba is the female deity and for that reason, it is covered with a female vale. Allah in the Islamic literature is covered with the female vale. Even Mohammed is covered with a female vale in Islamic art.

    Coincidence? Or cover up of the greatest crime?

    • Nikolaos says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 9:02 am

      No, as far as I can tell it’s from al-ilāh and through elision of the /i/ it becomes al-lāh.

  3. Always On Watch says

    Dec 25, 2015 at 8:17 pm

    At last! This real meaning of the phrase has been brought to people’s attention.

    I first learned about the real meaning from an Arab who had converted from Islam to Christianity — and “blew the whistle.” Alas! He was speaking to a small church group, so the information didn’t get much dissemination.

    Thank you, Mr. Spencer, for telling the truth about this phrase.

    • Sh. N. says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 11:16 am

      Even me as an ex-Muslim who had practiced Islam for quite a while couldn’t explain the real meaning of “Allah akbar” as thorough and delicate as Robert Spencer has done.
      Well analyzed and we’ll said

    • IQ al Rassooli says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 11:50 am

      Hi AOW

      Dear Robert

      I would like you to take my following comment NOT as criticism but in the spirit of ENLIGHTENMENT
      Akbar does NOT mean Great or Greatest. In Arabic Akbar means BIGGER or OLDER.

      For example “my house is bigger than your house” in Arabic ” Baiti AKBAR min Baitak”

      OR

      If one has children and points to the eldest one as “Older than all my other children” in Arabic “Akbar min kul awladi”

      In Arabic Greater is AATHAM. For example, Great Britain in Arabic is translated to ” Britania al UTHMA” NEVER ” Britania al Kubra”

      The reason why – centuries BEFORE Muhammad metamorphosed the supreme rock god of Pagan Arabia called Allah into the God of the Bible – the pagan Arabs also exalted their pagan god Allah with Allahu Akbar because they meant that their god Allah was BIGGER than any of all 360 other deities in stone in the Kaaba.

      Muhammad made Allahu Akbar the Battle Cry of Islam whenever and wherever Muslims AGGRESS against anyone on the planet be they Infidels/ Kuffar or Muslims of a different sect.
      Sincerely

      IQ al Rassooli
      Kafir & Proud!

  4. Bradley Lexvold says

    Dec 25, 2015 at 8:18 pm

    I don’t know why no one has figured this out before. Shouting ” Allah Akbar” is an admission of inferiority.

    Underlings always say their better than you. They do this for a variety of reasons, but it exposes them.

    Anyone who has either been in a position of authority or has had people nipping at their heels recognizes this. See this for what it is, an admission of inferiority.

    • GWS says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 4:01 pm

      Underlings do NOT ALWAYS say they are better than you. Sometimes maybe, but not always. The superior one quite often relishes rubbing it in your face.

  5. Phil says

    Dec 25, 2015 at 8:25 pm

    You are wrong on 1 count that I am positive of. The liberal media doesn’t misinterpret, mistake, mistranslate, or misunderstand anything. They deliberately twist anything and everything they can, to fit the narrative they want/need to achieve their agenda.

  6. Ed says

    Dec 25, 2015 at 8:43 pm

    Excellent.
    When they imply “Greater” it means other than, as to “there is another entity” different from the Judeo-Christian God.
    If it were the same God, then why do they must kill/convert/tax a non-muslim?
    Based on this logic, I bring forth the assertion that allah is not God.
    Based on the deeds committed by muslims in the name of allah, allah can only be satan.
    satan is deceitfully impersonating God.
    So, Muslims think that they believe in God, instead they are doing the work of satan.

    • worldcitizen1919 says

      Dec 25, 2015 at 10:42 pm

      Murder is against the law of God and always has been. God is a God of love for all humanity regardless of race, nationality, class or creed and He loves all whether believers or aetheists. He wants us to love and be kind to each other and live in peace. That is the true God.

      People who use God/Allah as an excuse to murder and hate others follow only the God of their own imaginations not the true God of love.

      History is replete with both Christians and Muslims calling on their God to conquer and kill. In reality it is they not God who commits these atrocities for God cries to see us sink to the level of animals and never supports war.

      God is a kind, loving Father Who loves and cares for all humanity believers and non believers, good and bad, as His Own Chikdren.

      But He gives us freedom to choose to be united or to be at war and so our destiny is up to us to make the right choices.

      Muslims who form in their minds a concept of the Divine Reality (Allah/God) as a soldier in their army of conquest are deluded and sick minds. There is no such thing as an evil or hateful warring God. God is all good and alll love. It is people which misuse His Holy Name for corrupt ambitions.

      • Bernard says

        Dec 25, 2015 at 11:20 pm

        There is nothing wrong with calling on the true God to conquer your enemies if they are unjust aggressors and you are acting in defense of yourself or another. There is such a thing as a “Just War”. The Crusades were “Just Wars” against the Islamic Aggressors. Let’s just put it this way, if a group of people are trying to rape your wife and children would you not defend them by using force? Of course you would and would it not be appropriate to ask God to help to you stop the bastards? Of course it would! The goal is to be on God’s side and not on the side of the wicked. When God destroyed the Egyptians in the Red Sea the people chanted, “Our God is a warrior, the Lord is a warrior.” God is not a pushover, he does love all mankind but he is not afraid to use the death penalty against the wicked, nor is he afraid to send warriors out to conquer the wicked. Murder is always wrong, however killing a man in a just war or in self defense is not murder nor is it opposed to the will of God.

    • Paul says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 6:46 am

      @Ed
      Spot on. @worldcitizen1919 is in denial.

      • worldcitizen1919 says

        Dec 26, 2015 at 7:08 am

        No, not in denial at all. In full agreement. Maybe I didn’t add this. Sorry. Not a pacifist. Justice is the most important element the world needs now.

        A conquest can be a praiseworthy thing, and there are times when war becomes the powerful basis of peace, and ruin the very means of reconstruction. If, for example, a high-minded sovereign marshals his troops to block the onset of the insurgent and the aggressor, or again, if he takes the field and distinguishes himself in a struggle to unify a divided state and people, if, in brief, he is waging war for a righteous purpose, then this seeming wrath is mercy itself, and this apparent tyranny the very substance of justice and this warfare the cornerstone of peace. Today, the task befitting great rulers is to establish universal peace, for in this lies the freedom of all peoples. (Baha’i Writings)

        • Paul says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 7:31 am

          I have no problem with Baha’i people. The Baha’i faith
          essentially did away with all of the hateful and murderous
          texts in the koran, but that doesn’t stop muslims from
          persecuting Baha’i people because they believe that
          what they have is the pure eternal and unnegotiable
          word of the impostor ‘allah’. God does exist and so does
          satan, only the latter is rebranded as ‘allah’, who wants
          your people and all others who don’t carry out his evil
          commands dead.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 8:35 am

          We believe people were born good and fell into bad ways and can be educated to be good as everyone has been created in the image of God so each and every person has the ‘potential’ to be godly and good.

          Whether or not they choose to is another thing but better educated people against all forms of prejudice and to accept all humanity unconditionally without prejudice as members of the same human family can rid people of misplaced feelings of supremacy.

          The goal is always human happiness. Life was created for happiness not war and misery. God’s greatest wish is to see the entire human race happy not convert all people to this or that Faith as God already owns the universe so what would be the point of that?

          If all the world become Christians and are happy in peace I’m fine with that and if they all become aetheists and get along I’m fine with that too.

          My interest is to stop mans inhumanity to man so that all can live a happy and enjoyable life. The only way I can see for humanity to get to that level is for all,accept each other as equal human beings unconditionally regardless of race, religion or no religion, nationality or class etc.

          Any person who loves and respects all humanity is already godly in my view even if they’re aetheist. Accepting everyone means treating them right which terrorists don’t do so people have every right to shame and oppose them.

        • RonaldB says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 10:44 am

          The Baha’i is just another sect with its own insular and unworkable vision.

          Baha’i doctrine calls for a world government over all people. The solution to poverty is, unsurprising for an unimaginative body of dogmas comprising Baha’i, is socialism: take from the rich and distribute to the poor. Check out the Baha’i doctrine for yourself.

          “Through the manifestation of God’s great equity the poor of the world will be rewarded and assisted fully and there will be a readjustment in the economic conditions of mankind so that in the future there will not be the abnormally rich nor the abject poor. The rich will enjoy the privilege of this new economic condition as well as the poor, for owing to certain provision and restriction they will not be able to accumulate so much as to be burdened by its management, while the poor will be relieved from the stress of want and misery.”

          http://www.bahai.com/Bahaullah/principles.htm#A SPIRITUAL SOLUTION TO THE ECONOMIC PROBLEM

          Furthermore, while the Baha’i attempt to present a picture of harmony and tolerance, in fact, the decisions on Baha’i doctrine are made by a small, unelected group of elders, and no dissenting opinions are allowed within the Baha’i community. Any dissenting voice is squelched with banning and isolation. In some cases, Baha’is expressing independent opinions simply find themselves dropped from the membership roles with no warning or appeal.

          http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html

          The Baha’is revere Muhammud as a prophet, claiming that his teachings have been distorted by Muslims. When you actually look at the life of Muhammud, it becomes apparent that there is something mentally deficient in people who persist in viewing him as a figure to be admired and emulated. But, then again, Baha’i actually traces its development through Islam, and since the basis of Baha’i is revelation rather than logic, you would expect the contradictory doctrines that characterize the Baha’i.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 11:54 am

          For starters we are governed by the Universal House of Justice an elected Body residing on the slopes of Mount Carmel in Haifa Israel and Baha’is in each nation are governed also by national and local elected bodies.

          There are NO priests or clergy in the Baha’i Faith.

          Yes we believe in Muhammad but no we are not a cult. You think Israel are stupid enough to give prime real estate on Carmel the Mountain of God to some small Islamic cult???

          The Baha’i Faith represents the largest ‘world community’ of a cross section of humanity that come from every conceivable racial, national, religious and cultural background.

          We have our own administration and do not involve ourselves in politics so a world government if one is formed is up to humanity not us to establish.

          Thr poor and needy are very high up in God’s eyes and are a priority but again it’s something the world needs to deliberate upon but universal education is promoted by Baha’is as a means for employment. Baha’u’llah taught we should all learn a trade or profession so we can earn a living. That’s a good idea that I’ve always thought shoulght be taught in all schools so that school leavers can get a job almost immediately upon leaving school.

          Baha’is believe in unity in diversity. Anyone can be a member of the Baha’i Faith but you can’t for instance be a terrorist and a registered Baha’i like a Muslim can in Islam.

          We are not Muslims but accept the interpretation about the Quran and Muhammad revealed by Baha’u’llah.

          Logic proved the round was flat then that it was round. Logic is flawed but human reasoning is more accurate but not infallible.

          Christ received revelation from God. . Christ’s relationship with God was one of revelation. And mankind trusted and had faith in Christ and look to what spiritual levels He raised us?

          Anyway always feel welcome to have your say.

        • RonaldB says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 12:08 pm

          “Logic proved the round was flat then that it was round. Logic is flawed but human reasoning is more accurate but not infallible.”

          It is typical that people who defend principles gained through revelation will misrepresent logic and history.

          In point of fact, the ancient Greeks were well aware, using mathematics and logic, that the earth was round. In fact, they even made a pretty good guess as to the circumference, based on the differences of the length of a shadow at different latitudes

          Christopher Columbus and his sailors had no illusions the world was flat. The point of contention was how far the ships had to sail before reaching land. They didn’t know about the continents of North and South America, so they had a quite justified fear that the ships would sail beyond the range of return without being able to resupply.

          I can tell from your glittering generalities that you are just citing high-sounding assumptions without reason or justification.

        • Wellington says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 12:23 pm

          Very sound posts, RonaldB.

        • Aussie Infidel says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 6:41 pm

          Worldcitizen1919, People are born neither good nor bad. At birth, everyone’s mind is virtually a ‘clean slate’ waiting to be educated – and that education can be either good or bad, depending upon the educator. In the case of Muslims, the initial educator was a psychopath who developed an innate hatred of Jews, Christians and others who would not accept his narcissistic supremacist views. Muhammad tried to indoctrinate all who would listen to his toxic mix of religion and politics, and amassed a following of fanatics who would do his bidding, because he promised them Paradise for fighting in the cause of his God. He behaved like any other thuggish warlord, robbing and murdering anyone who didn’t agree with him, and acknowledge his leadership.

          Like all psychopaths, Muhammad had no empathy for those he deemed to be his enemies, and no remorse for his actions – not because of any erroneous ‘Satanic’ influence, but simply because psychopaths are born with genetic defects which render them incapable of normal human emotional reactions. In Western societies, many psychopaths often end up in jail for the crimes they commit, but in Islamic societies the criminals are often in control. Islam is simply a criminal ideology controlled by its more aggressive members; while the so-called ‘moderates’ do not challenge their authority out of fear for their own safety.

          With all due respects to the many sincere religious people on this blog, the sooner we move beyond supernatural reasons to justify evil, the better; and recognize the real reasons why Islam is such a criminal ideology, and has proliferated throughout the centuries. Only then, will we devise effective real-world strategies to combat the Islamic menace and as you put it, “stop man’s inhumanity to man.”

          Another point of disagreement: Logic is not flawed; logic is simply ‘logical’. Human reasoning is often flawed, because we do not always have sufficient information about a subject to make an accurate analysis, and we often have pre-existing erroneous beliefs. Our intelligence can be a double edged sword; it can allow us to ask deep and profound questions about ‘life, the universe and everything’, but does not necessarily give us the answers. Only evidence provides us with the knowledge to progress – and ask further profound questions.

          The Ancient Greek philosopher Eratosthenes proved the Earth was round in the third century BC (almost a millenium before Muhammad), and from his calculations, even how big it is (see Carl Sagan’s explanation from his Cosmos series below). Another Greek philosopher, Aristarchos, placed the Sun at the center of the solar system, long before Copernicus. However, in the meantime, scientifically illiterate Mohammadans have turned the clock back to the dark days of our ignorant past.
          http://www.wimp.com/roundearth/

        • gravenimage says

          Dec 28, 2015 at 8:49 pm

          I agree with Wellington–excellent post from Ronald B.

      • gravenimage says

        Dec 28, 2015 at 8:48 pm

        Apologist for Islam “worldcitizen1919”:

        Murder is against the law of God and always has been. God is a God of love for all humanity regardless of race, nationality, class or creed…
        ……………………………………

        Muslims don’t believe this and never have. This is just Baha’i apologia for Islam. Baha’i themselves are peaceful, but feel compelled to defend and *spread* Islam, and to whitewash its nature and that of the foul “Prophet”.

        More:

        People who use God/Allah as an excuse to murder and hate others follow only the God of their own imaginations not the true God of love.
        ……………………………………

        They are following orthodox Islam.

        More:

        History is replete with both Christians and Muslims calling on their God to conquer and kill. In reality it is they not God who commits these atrocities for God cries to see us sink to the level of animals and never supports war.
        ……………………………………

        There is no glorification of blood and conquest in Christian texts–would that we could say the same for Islam.

        More:

        Muslims who form in their minds a concept of the Divine Reality (Allah/God) as a soldier in their army of conquest are deluded and sick minds. There is no such thing as an evil or hateful warring God…
        ……………………………………

        Once again, I ask why this apologist is touting this *here* for decent Infidels, and not for the pious Muslims who actually practice such a creed?

        More:

        No, not in denial at all. In full agreement. Maybe I didn’t add this. Sorry. Not a pacifist. Justice is the most important element the world needs now.

        A conquest can be a praiseworthy thing, and there are times when war becomes the powerful basis of peace, and ruin the very means of reconstruction. If, for example, a high-minded sovereign marshals his troops to block the onset of the insurgent and the aggressor, or again, if he takes the field and distinguishes himself in a struggle to unify a divided state and people, if, in brief, he is waging war for a righteous purpose, then this seeming wrath is mercy itself, and this apparent tyranny the very substance of justice…
        ……………………………………

        Notice how this last can be applied to Muslims conquering innocent victims in the name of Islam? Once again, this poster is vague at best in his views, and often changes his position in the middle of a thread.

        His inconsistency is hardly surprising given what horrors he is trying to improbably whitewash..

        More:

        We believe people were born good and fell into bad ways and can be educated to be good as everyone has been created in the image of God so each and every person has the ‘potential’ to be godly and good.

        Whether or not they choose to is another thing but better educated people against all forms of prejudice and to accept all humanity unconditionally without prejudice as members of the same human family can rid people of misplaced feelings of supremacy.

        The goal is always human happiness. Life was created for happiness not war and misery. God’s greatest wish is to see the entire human race happy…
        ……………………………………

        Many good people believe this. Devout Muslims, however, do not–human happiness is *not* a perceived aim of the appalling “Allah”. Once more, why doesn’t this poster take this up with Mohammedans?

        More:

        If all the world become Christians and are happy in peace I’m fine with that and if they all become aetheists and get along I’m fine with that too.
        ……………………………………

        OK–and if they all become ravening Muslims and want to kill and oppress Baha’i and other Infidels, are you fine with that, as well? According to Baha’i leaders, spreading Islam–especially in the West–is a major goal of Baha’i.

        More:

        Yes we believe in Muhammad but no we are not a cult. You think Israel are stupid enough to give prime real estate on Carmel the Mountain of God to some small Islamic cult???
        ……………………………………

        The first building in this complex was completed in 1909, decades before the founding of Israel. While I have been unable to find conclusive information, it appears that Israel simply acknowledged Baha’i ownership of the land–*not* that they somehow rushed to give Baha’i land in recognition of their status as a religion.

        More:

        The Baha’i Faith represents the largest ‘world community’ of a cross section of humanity that come from every conceivable racial, national, religious and cultural background.
        ……………………………………

        This is terribly silly. Christianity is much larger and more diverse than is Baha’i–not that this criterion says much about a faith one way or the other in and of itself–save that it is popular with a wide range of people.

        By that yardstick, bloody Islam is a “world community” as well–just a very violent one.

        More:

        We are not Muslims but accept the interpretation about the Quran and Muhammad revealed by Baha’u’llah.
        ……………………………………

        Baha’i can pretend that Muhammad was not a warlord, rapist, caravan-raider, slaver, and mass-murderer–but this does not make it so, nor does it change pious Muslims revering him on that basis and following his model.

        More:

        Logic proved the round was flat then that it was round. Logic is flawed but human reasoning is more accurate but not infallible.
        ……………………………………

        Is anyone surprised that the above is so incoherent?

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 28, 2015 at 9:35 pm

          Thanks for your reply.

          Look, all I’m basically trying to say is that 1.6 billion Muslims are not all evil and that they are mostly good decent people due to their beliefs in the Quran and Muhammad and that the fanatics and terrorists must be destroyed but all Muslims and their beliefs shouldn’t be demonised because of the actions of the terrorists.

        • gravenimage says

          Dec 29, 2015 at 10:11 pm

          “worldcitizen1919” wrote:

          Look, all I’m basically trying to say is that 1.6 billion Muslims are not all evil and that they are mostly good decent people due to their beliefs in the Quran and Muhammad…
          ……………………………………….

          *No one* is decent *because* of their belief in the baleful Qur’an and the vicious warlord Muhammad.

          Muslims fail to wage violent Jihad for two basic reasons: either they *don’t* believe in the violence of the Qur’an and Muhammad, and are essentially apostates; or they adhere to the very Islamic concept of Fard Kalifa, which says that as long as *some* Muslims are waging violent JIhad against us that this is enough (in times of war–which some especially devout Muslims believe holds now, the belief is that waging violent Jihad becomes Fard Ayn, or incumbent on every able-bodied male Muslim).

          More:

          …and that the fanatics and terrorists must be destroyed but all Muslims and their beliefs shouldn’t be demonised because of the actions of the terrorists.
          ……………………………………….

          I’m afraid you have things reversed–these violent beliefs are not “demonised” because of the existence of fanatical and terrorist Muslims; instead, fanatical and terrorist Muslims exist because they are following these tenets of orthodox Islam.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 29, 2015 at 11:31 pm

          Bahaullah confirms that the Cause of Muhammad were from God as was the Quran in His Book of Certitude and I believe He is the Promised One foretold by Isaiah and Christ and in all the Holy Books of all religions.

          I know you don’t accept that but that’s my view and I respect you having different views. We agree to differ in this.

          If Baha’u’llah is Who He says He is then He is right with regards to Muhammad’s impeccable character and that Muhammad is a Prophet and the Quran , the Word of God.

        • gravenimage says

          Dec 30, 2015 at 6:18 pm

          worldcitizen1919 wrote:

          Bahaullah confirms that the Cause of Muhammad were from God as was the Quran…

          If Baha’u’llah is Who He says He is then He is right with regards to Muhammad’s impeccable character and that Muhammad is a Prophet and the Quran , the Word of God.
          ……………………………..

          As long as you feel compelled to whitewash the horror of the Qur’an and the vicious “Prophet”, you will continue to enable bloody Jihad–the greatest threat and worst evil of our times.

          I’m sure this is not your intent–but you continue your denial as long as you refuse to admit this. What a terrible shame.

          The irony is if Islam *does* emerge triumphant, that you and your fellow Baha’i will suffer as greatly as we will. Please think about what you are doing here.

  7. Mark Breza says

    Dec 25, 2015 at 8:50 pm

    One would suppose since God is everything he is Allah also .
    How would a christian whose language is Arabic say the name of God ?

    • Edward says

      Dec 25, 2015 at 10:17 pm

      Quoting this Christian website: “Allah” is the Arabic word for “God” and has been so long before the existence of Islam. The names “Allah” and “God” are generally interchangeable within the Muslim religion and in Middle Eastern cultures.”

      http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/allah.html

      The Muslim world has highjacked a most viable Religion, CHRISTIANITY, to accommodate their social mores to form a corrupt quasi faith that professes unnatural styled human existence.

      Mo-res > the central importance accepted immoral existence, without question and embodying the fundamental pseudo moral views of a group indoctrinated by a manmade form of theocracy!

    • ekbano says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 5:35 am

      A christian of any nation or language would call god Jehovah. (I AM)
      allah= (He is). Like all mohommadan nonsense it is close, but no cigar.

      • LR says

        Dec 26, 2015 at 5:05 pm

        ekbano:

        There is no ‘Jehovah’, in the Bible. Wasn’t that name conjured by what’s-her-name?

    • cjk says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 11:10 am

      Perfectly good word for god in Arabic, ‘illah’ . Even the Mohammedan screech says that ‘there is no illah but Allah and Moe is his profit.

      • ringgo1 says

        Dec 26, 2015 at 11:29 am

        Bingo! You have it exactly right.

  8. PRCS says

    Dec 25, 2015 at 9:12 pm

    “Allahu akbar” doesn’t mean what media says it means”

    That most of what the media says about Islam is ignorant nonsense–or is concocted to excuse, obfuscate, and lie about Islam–is a given.

  9. Islam :- the religion of con artists says

    Dec 25, 2015 at 9:32 pm

    Robert Spencer at Breitbart: “Allahu akbar” doesn’t mean what media says it means …

    Thanks Robert, I think you will support me with this ,,,, everything Muslims say doesn’t mean what they say it does …..

    Which of course for warm welcoming people that tend to see the good in everyone, this is very hard to understand ..

    • KnowThyEnemy says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 12:46 am

      “,,,, everything Muslims say doesn’t mean what they say it does …..”

      Except when they say something that implies causing harm to you (any type of harm, direct or indirect, immediate or in future)! In that case they do mean what they say!

      • Oppressaphobe says

        Dec 26, 2015 at 9:56 am

        Yeah here’s the conundrum:

        Koran advocates for lying tor allosox (sp).

        So the big time scholar below goes on for three pages but here’s the problem:

        WE SHOULDN’T BELIEVE ANYTHING A MUSLIM SAYS BECAUSE HIS BOOK SAYS TO LIE!

        It’s a real logic problem… if you have a brain you’re in trouble here.

  10. Fab Feringhee says

    Dec 25, 2015 at 9:39 pm

    It’s a lot like Fu$%. it can be used in any number of ways depending on the situation.

  11. Avesta says

    Dec 25, 2015 at 9:41 pm

    Allah u Akbar…………..BACONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN……………..!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Not very long ago when I was in a Central Asian state I was challenged to explain myself as to why I am not a practicing Muslim……??? When I attempted to have an intellectual discussion with the individual, needless to say, it degenerated into a shouting match, threats, and the rest is not worth mentioning.

    As juvenile as this may sound, I screamed BACONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN in the guy’ s face and he ran away faster than the exotic goats they cherish in that country.

    Allah u Akbar…………..BACONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN……………..!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Aussie Infidel says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 8:44 pm

      Avesta, That was just the ‘fright, flight or fight reaction’ to a potential threat. Don’t blame yourself for being ‘juvenile’ – it’s our natural defense mechanism. You chose to ‘fight’, while your Mohammadan challenger chose ‘flight’. It’s interesting that BACONNNNNN!!! was perceived as a much more powerful weapon (against him) that his threats were to you. Did he accuse you of being a ‘racist’ or ‘Islamophobe’?

      I have been put in similar situations too, and initially I backed away; but now I fight back. My reaction is simply to ask belligerents (talking straight to their face), “Have you read the Quran?” And before they can answer, I ask them to quote Q9:5 (or anything else appropriate). Never once have they been prepared to argue further, because they are suddenly confronted either with their own ignorance, or someone who might not be such a push-over as their previous victims.

      But just in case that fails, I’ll remember “BACONNNNNNNNNNN!!!”

      • worldcitizen1919 says

        Dec 26, 2015 at 11:47 pm

        Sura 9:5 is only part of the story here.

        Muslims were ordered not to attack unless attacked first 2:190 and also those who kept their peace pacts were not harmed but those who started aggression and war and also broke their peace treaties were fought and in that context Muhammad used 9:5

        This is supported by 9:13 here Muhammad explains why sura 9:5 is being invoked because of how the polytheistic are treating them.

        9:13] Would you not fight people who violated their treaties, tried to banish the messenger, and they are the ones who started the war in the first place? Are you afraid of them?

        This clearly indicates that the Muslims were told to stand up to their oppressors who were intent on genocide.

        The ply theists were intent on genocide and exterminating the entire Muslim Community and fenocide thrn and now are no different. It must be fought or face extermination.

        You can take 2:191 out of context also and make it look like the Quran promotes mass murder but if you read the sura before it it’s clear the Quran is against both injustice and terrorism and attacking first.

        Sure 9:5 as well as sura 2:191 alone taken out of context are very misleading and only show up the clutching at straws going on to try and get the Quran to read according to One’s prejudices. However reading the entire Quran along with a knowledge of history and not only referring to the bad Hadiths but the good ones leads to the truth that Muhammad was a Messenger of God and the Quran is the Word of God and cherry pickers are just that desperately cherry picking verses to satisfy their own personal hatreds and biases of Islam not founded in truth but emotional prejudices.

        Even the term unbeliever ddisnt mean blue collar New York office workers 1300 years ago but barbaric savage tribes who buried their daughters alive if the first born was a girl. To try and equate rhe vocabulary used then with mospdern definitions is why most fail to understand the Quran and judge it according to their limited understanding of times. 1300 years ago.

        • Jack Diamond says

          Dec 27, 2015 at 1:45 am

          This is not for the benefit of the dunce who keeps posting apologia for Qur’anic calls to murder and conquest. Here is how real Muslims understand the “context” of the Verse of the Sword and the Chapter of Repentance (surah 9):

          “Everything in the Qur’an about forgiveness is abrogated by verse 9:5”–Jahluddin Suyuti

          “So at first the fighting was prohibited, then it was permitted and after that it was made obligatory…Allah revealed in (surah 9) the order to discard all obligations (treaties) and commanded the Muslims to fight against all the pagans as well as the People of the Book if they do not embrace Islam, till they pay the jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued.”–Dr. M. Mushinkhan, Medina Islamic University introduction to Sahih Bukhari translation

          “When (the Prophet) migrated from Mecca to Medina God ordered him to fight those who fought him only then when the Chapter of Repentance (surah 9) was revealed, God commanded his Prophet to fight anyone who did not become a Muslim, whether they fought him or not.”–Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziya

          “Muhammad had earlier made a covenant with them (infidels) not to kill them. After that, this verse was given (9:5) in order to free God and Muhammad from any covenant with the infidels…it gives them a four month grace period, then kill the infidels wherever you find them. Capture them, besiege them in their castles and fortresses until they are forced to accept Islam or be killed.” –The Jalalan, published by Al-Azhar

          “(then fight the Mushrikin wherever you find them), means, on the earth in general… This honorable Ayah (9:5) was called the Ayah of the Sword, about which Ad-Dahhak bin Muzahim said, “It abrogated every agreement of peace between the Prophet and any idolator, every treaty, and every term.” Al-`Awfi said that Ibn `Abbas commented: “No idolator had any more treaty or promise of safety ever since Surah Bara’ah was revealed. ” –Tasfir Ibn Kathir

          This is why bin Laden began his Sermon on the Feast of Sacrifice in 2003 with “praise be to Allah who revealed the verse of the sword to his servant and Messenger in order to establish truth and abolish falsehood.”

          Verses before 9:5 are about peace treaties which are dissolved after four months notice, with exceptions until the agreed termination, such as the Damra tribe given nine months. That’s it. That’s all the “context.” 9:5 then frees all obligations to all treaties, and, to quote the venerable Ibn Kathir, ‘slay the unbelievers wherever you find them’ is not limited to pagans in Arabia but “on the earth in general.” Verse 9:6 only allows protection of some idolators only for the purposes of converting them to Islam or allowing them to spread the message of Islam. Verse 9:5 commands Muslims to make war upon non-Muslims.

        • KnowThyEnemy says

          Dec 27, 2015 at 2:02 am

          You are not Bahai, you are a Muslim clearly trying to deceive us! You try to justify Q 9:5 with Q 9:13 where Muhammad…err… Allah claims that it was the polytheists (Quraish) who started trouble in the first place! But did they? Let’s read what Ibn Ishaq has to say-

          “When the apostle openly displayed Islam as God ordered him, his people did not withdraw or turn against him, until he spoke disparagingly of their gods. When he did that they took great offence and resolved unanimously to treat him as an enemy.” [Ibn Ishaq, p. 118]

          Mu deceived followers by ‘revealing’ Q 9:13! It wasn’t the polytheists who started trouble…. it was Muhammad!

          The Quraish were everyday joes (Compare them with Trump followers!) so of course they got pissed when Mu dissed their gods, and kicked him out of Mecca! Only one of them is known to have actually tried to kill Mu.

          Go to Iran, or any Islam-majority area for that matter, and say things against Islam or Muhammad, and have your next of kin post a live-leak video of you so we know how long the Muslims let you stay alive! The fact that Mu managed to get out of Mecca alive, is itself strong evidence that the Quraish were quite tolerant! I doubt if even the Jains of India are THAT tolerant.

          As for Quran Surah 2 Ayats 190 thru 193, read this tafseer by Ibn Kathir (link below). Read five or six slides begining with this one-
          http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=235&Itemid=36

          It should be obvious to anyone that Ayat 193 seems to be giving a fresh command to fight all unbelievers until Islam reigns supreme.

          But what about Ayats 190, 191, and 192? Are they talking about only that point in time or do they apply for all times to come? How about let a Muslim website answer that question and explain the details…… at this link-
          http://www.islamicstudies.info/tafheem.php?sura=2&verse=190&to=193

          Are these Islamic websites too taking the verses out of context, worldcitizen1919?

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 27, 2015 at 2:39 am

          Don’t know where you got that from. I’ve been a Baha’i for 40 years and my entire family are Baha’is. I have a Baha’i identity card if you’d like to see it. You’re very welcome.

          You’re entitled to your views and I respect you for sharing them.

        • KnowThyEnemy says

          Dec 27, 2015 at 2:51 am

          @ worldcitizen1919,

          I don’t need to see your fake ID card because actions talk louder than words!

          Make sure to read carefully the links that I posted. Also read Jack Diamond’s response where he shows with evidence that it was the duplicitous Muhammad (and his evil Allah) who broke the treaties that he himself made!

        • gravenimage says

          Dec 28, 2015 at 9:57 pm

          More repulsive apologia for Islam from “worldcitizen1919”

          Sura 9:5 is only part of the story here.

          Muslims were ordered not to attack unless attacked first 2:190 and also those who kept their peace pacts were not harmed but those who started aggression and war and also broke their peace treaties were fought and in that context Muhammad used 9:5
          ………………………….

          All Qur’an 2:190 says is that Jihadists should “not transgress”–considering Muslims can commit genocide and enslave entire peoples, that gives them quite a bit of latitude.

          As for the reference to “those who fight you” (i.e., Muslims)–“worldcitizen would have us believe that this means all Muslim warfare is defensive–but this is false. Muslims consider anyone who resists Muslim rule and being forcibly converted or made to live as an oppressed dhimmi to be “fighting” them–even by those who resist passively.

          So *all* of us here in the West are considered “fighters” against Islam unless we convert.

          More:

          This is supported by 9:13 here Muhammad explains why sura 9:5 is being invoked because of how the polytheistic are treating them.
          ………………………….

          Firstly, there is *no* indication that the infamous “Sura of the Sword” was modified by Qur’an 9:13.

          Muslims have *never* understood this Ayat in this way. Instead, they have cited it in their conquests. Would this poster have us believe that Islam’s conquest of the entire Middle East, Mahgreb, Persia, India, and large swaths of Europe, Africa, and Asia were all *defensive*?

          More:

          This clearly indicates that the Muslims were told to stand up to their oppressors who were intent on genocide.

          The ply theists were intent on genocide and exterminating the entire Muslim Community and fenocide thrn and now are no different. It must be fought or face extermination.
          ………………………….

          Look what this vile apologist just did–he is saying *thrn (sic) and now”–implying that Muslims are waging violent Jihad all over the world *now*–murdering innocent people in over 27,500 Jihad terror attacks in order to defend against “fenocide”. What utter falsehood.

          More:

          You can take 2:191 out of context also and make it look like the Quran promotes mass murder but if you read the sura before it it’s clear the Quran is against both injustice and terrorism and attacking first.
          ………………………….

          More rot. Sura 2:190 just talks about “fighting in the way of Allah”–i.e., waging violent Jihad. It warns that Allah does not like “transgressors”–yet implies in the following Ayat that this means anyone who engages in “Fitna”–i.e., who rejects oppressive Muslim rule.

          By these lights, the Baha’i never should have set up their headquarters in Israel–they just should have continued to suffer under Muslim violence and oppression in Iran.

          More:

          Sure 9:5 as well as sura 2:191 alone taken out of context are very misleading and only show up the clutching at straws going on to try and get the Quran to read according to One’s prejudices.
          ………………………….

          No–this is how Muslims themselves interpret it. Instead, it is apologists who tie themselves in knots pretending that Islam, the Qur’an, and the vicious warlord Muhammed are anything but violent.

          More:

          However reading the entire Quran along with a knowledge of history and not only referring to the bad Hadiths but the good ones leads to the truth that Muhammad was a Messenger of God and the Quran is the Word of God and cherry pickers are just that desperately cherry picking verses to satisfy their own personal hatreds and biases of Islam not founded in truth but emotional prejudices.
          ………………………….

          For those who know anything about history, we can see how many suffered and were slaughtered over the centuries in the foul name of Islam.

          More:

          Even the term unbeliever ddisnt mean blue collar New York office workers 1300 years ago but barbaric savage tribes who buried their daughters alive if the first born was a girl. To try and equate rhe vocabulary used then with mospdern definitions is why most fail to understand the Quran and judge it according to their limited understanding of times. 1300 years ago.
          ………………………….

          “Unbeliever” then as now meant anyone who doesn’t believe in the violent deity “Allah” or that the warlord Muhammed is his prophet–and they face now what they faced then: conversion, dhimmitude, or death.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 28, 2015 at 10:32 pm

          Thanks for you letter.

          What the Quran instructed and what Muslims did are not the same.

          Muslims were always only instructed by Muhamnad and the Quran not to attack unless attacked. That doesn’t mean they obeyed that command which they clearly didn’t and don’t today.

          After Muhammad’s passing instead of Ali being chosen to be His Successor Abu Bakr seized power and the Caliphs ruled and ruled with the sword and were the false Islam as they were not the rightful successors. In the bible the Umayyad Dynasty is mentioned. They are the Sunni Islam of today.

          Revelation 12:3

          “And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth.”

          This dragon represents the Umayyads, who seized the reins of the religion of Muḥammad; and the seven heads and seven crowns represent the seven dominions and kingdoms over which they came to rule: the Roman dominion in Syria; the Persian, the Arabian, and the Egyptian dominions; the dominion of Africa—that is, Tunisia, Morocco, and Algeria; the dominion of Andalusia, which is now Spain; and the dominion of the Turkish tribes of Transoxania. The Umayyads gained power over all these dominions. The ten horns represent the names of the Umayyad rulers, for, barring repetition, they are ten sovereigns, or ten names of chiefs and rulers. The first is Abú Sufyán and the last is Marván. Some of their names have been repeated, including two Mu‘áviyihs, three Yazíds, two Valíds, and two Marváns. If, however, these names are each counted only once, they number ten in total. These Umayyads—the first of whom was Abú Sufyán, the former chief of Mecca and founder of the dynasty, and the last of whom was Marván— destroyed a third of the holy and sanctified souls who descended from the pure lineage of Muḥammad and who were even as the stars of heaven. (Baha’i Writings)

        • gravenimage says

          Dec 29, 2015 at 10:27 pm

          worldcitizen1919 wrote:

          What the Quran instructed and what Muslims did are not the same.

          Muslims were always only instructed by Muhamnad and the Quran not to attack unless attacked. That doesn’t mean they obeyed that command which they clearly didn’t and don’t today.
          ……………………………………….

          Baha’i believe this–but this does not mean that orthodox Muslims do. *Nor* is this supported by reading the Qur’an and Sira themselves–I’m afraid the “Prophet” himself is a horrifically violent figure, whitewash notwithstanding.

          More:

          After Muhammad’s passing instead of Ali being chosen to be His Successor Abu Bakr seized power and the Caliphs ruled and ruled with the sword and were the false Islam as they were not the rightful successors.
          ……………………………………….

          This is something believed by Shi’ites, and Shia Islam is what Baha’i grew out of.

          But whether one believes the “Rightly-Guided Caliphs” save Ali were legitimate or not makes little difference to their Infidel victims–the first three followed Muhammed’s model of conquest, as did Ali when he became Caliph. There is very little difference between them in terms of policy–all the rest is just palace intrigue, a common feature of Islam at all times.,

          More:

          In the bible the Umayyad Dynasty is mentioned. They are the Sunni Islam of today….[they] destroyed a third of the holy and sanctified souls who descended from the pure lineage of Muḥammad and who were even as the stars of heaven. (Baha’i Writings)
          ……………………………………….

          You can interpret Biblical scripture any way you want–there is no doubt that Sunni Islam has been horrifically oppressive and violent.

          But the idea that Shi’ites–the very people who oppress non-violent Baha’is and who now viciously rule Iran with an iron fist, torturing free thinkers, threatening to “wipe Israel off the map”, hanging gay people, and stoning women to death are “even as the stars of heaven” could not, I’m afraid, be more perverse.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 29, 2015 at 11:24 pm

          The stars of heaven only refers to the Umayyads killing a third of the imams not current day leaders.

  12. worldcitizen1919 says

    Dec 25, 2015 at 10:26 pm

    It is a term simply meaning God is Greatest or God is Most Great above all. God IS greater than anyone or government and is the Father of Creation.

    But God is a God of love and harmony not war and hatred.

    The God that some Muslims believe in that kills for them and wants to destroy all the earth except Islam is a concept of God created in the minds of fanatics and has nothing to do with the reality of the God of love Who loves all mankind regardless of race, nationality, creed or class.

    Terrorists worship the God their own imaginations have formed. They worship their own imaginations not God or Allah which is Arabic for God.

    The concept of God as a kind loving Father Who loves all mankind is the correct one.

    But words change their meaning over centuries. Once gay meant to be happy but now it is more referred to as a sexual orientation.

    God is always good, wonderful, great, loving and kind and that never changes but people have used the name of God like in the crusades to kill yet it is against the law of God to kill.

    What people do or how people use God’s name does not change the truth that God loves all humanity and wants us to be united and happy. There is no God that wants to establish the supremacy of Islam on earth. That is the fanatics ambitions not God’s. He wants us to be virtuous kind, good hearted people and loving and kind to each other and settle our disputes through consultation not war.

    Whatever meaning Muslims may use for God in a derogatiory manner does not reflect on the One True God Who loves us all and is kind and provides for us all.

    • Jack Diamond says

      Dec 25, 2015 at 11:22 pm

      Has the meaning of kill changed over the centuries? Kill the disbelievers, kill the idolators, kill the Jews and Christians unless they convert or pay ransom. The Qur’an and Sunnah, what Muhammad said and did, speak for themselves. In the words of Muhammad concerning the Second Pledge of Aqaba that spelled the doom for the Jews and the Quraish– “blood, blood, destruction, destruction!” That sums up Muhammad and his god nicely. You are right no God would act like Allah, no God would want to establish the supremacy of Islam over earth. But Allah does. No God would be the best of deceivers either. Nobody is imagining things, they are preserved in the immutable words of the bloody Qur’an. Murder, hate, war, tyranny, rape, pedophilia, beheadings, slavery, genocide. God does not trade in these, but Allah revels in them.

      • KnowThyEnemy says

        Dec 26, 2015 at 12:51 am

        “You are right no God would act like Allah….”

        That is because “Allah” is none other than Satan!

      • worldcitizen1919 says

        Dec 26, 2015 at 1:49 am

        Many united to exterminate Muhammad and His followers so they were forced to take up arms. Christians and Jews some of them joined in the attempted genocide which is what it would be called today which is why some of them were condemned.

        I can only add that your sources and interpretation of Quranic verses differ from mine inasmuch as Hadiths I do not recognise as valid as many were written by enemies to defame Muhammad and the Quranic verses interpretation is not referring to all Jews & Christians but those who betrayed their peace pacts and secretly sided with Muhammad’s oppressors who were intent on genocide, Muhammad could not support the genocide of His people so after 13 years allowed them to defend themselves which is reasonable. My views and sources differ but I believe proper research will find that Muhammad did not attack Christians but protected them and that it was the Caliphs later who misused their power to fight against Christians and Jews but in many countries Christian communities have lived in peace with Muslims for centuries.

        Other Chrisitians were to be treated kindly. My source is from a Baha’i source but the document also exists in Jerusalem.

        “Muhammad never fought against the Christians; on the contrary, He treated them kindly and “gave them perfect freedom. A community of Christian people lived at Najrán and were under His care and protection. Muhammad said, “If anyone infringes their rights, I Myself will be his enemy, and in the presence of God I will bring a charge against him.” In the edicts which He promulgated it is clearly stated that the lives, properties and honor of the Christians and Jews are under the protection of God; and that if a Muhammadan married a Christian woman, the husband must not prevent her from going to church, nor oblige her to veil herself; and that if she died, he must place her remains in the care of the Christian clergy. Should the Christians desire to build a church, Islám ought to help them. In case of war between Islám and her enemies, the Christians should be exempted from the obligation of fighting, unless they desired of their own free will to do so in defense of Islám, because they were under its protection. But as a compensation for this immunity, they should pay yearly a small sum of money. In “short, there are seven detailed edicts on these subjects, some copies of which are still extant at Jerusalem. This is an established fact and is not dependent on my affirmation. The edict of the second Caliph still exists in the custody of the orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem, and of this there is no doubt.”

        Excerpt From: Bahá, Abdu’l. “Some Answered Questions.” Bahá’í eBooks

        • No Fear says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 2:24 am

          “Hadiths I do not recognise as valid as many were written by enemies to defame Muhammad”

          If those Hadiths were written by enemies of Islam “to defame Mohammed” why are the “unreliable” hadiths bundled together with the good ones in all the Hadith collections I have been given by muslims? I have read hundreds of hadiths and some biographies of Mohammed. I am absolutely stunned that anyone could use him as a “perfect example” for man. He is as perfect an example as Hitler was.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 2:50 am

          Merry Christmas!!

          People can be wrong. People can be misinformed. People can err. The most knowledgeable men in Christ’s day had Him crucified and could not recognise Christ as the Son of God so if such a knowledgeable source can get it as wrong as to crucify a Prophet of God then so can Muslims and we get it wrong about Muhammad.

          A gross injustice has been done in the west to Muhammad I believe and that is because of prejudiced information.

          Read what the Baha’i scripture says about Muhammad as Baha’is are persecuted by Muslims in Iran so they are a truly independent source of information and although killed and tortured for their beliefs they have the right understanding of the Quran and Muhammad.

          Baha’u’llah, Who we believe was the return of Christ in the glory of the Father unsealed the meanings of the Bible and Quran and shed light on all the confusion.

          Trust me. Neither you not Jihad Watch have the correct information about the Quran or Muhammad. That’s a big call but so is this from Baha’u’llah…. The Promised One awaited by one and all.

          O ye leaders of religion! Who is the man amongst you that can rival Me in vision or insight? Where is he to be found that dareth to claim to be My equal in utterance or wisdom? No, by My Lord, the All-Merciful! All on the earth shall pass away; and this is the face of your Lord, the Almighty, the Well-Beloved. (Most Holy Book K101)

          I’m not a Muslim but I’ve stiudied Islam and the Quran for 40 years and know what I’m talking about. The verses quoted all have a historical background and definitions of unbeliever then is not our blue collar aetheist today but killers and those who would commit genocide.

          From Baha’u’llah you can get to the bottom of Who Muhammad really was and the Quran’s meanings. Why domBaha’is stand as living testimony that we all believe in the Quran yet are amongst the most peaceful community on earth?

          The interpretation terrorists push and what you hear here are falsified. Muhammad never taught hate or bigotry but people and those who are prejudice do.

        • KnowThyEnemy says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 4:08 am

          If the Bahai’s correctly understand Quran and Muhammad, then you should go tell the Muslims about this correct understanding of Islam, not Jihadwatchers! If Muslims get convinced and stop committing atrocities, then we will have no reason left to visit this site and waste time on Islam. Problem solved!

          But you will not go preach to the Muslims, would you? By your own admission, the Muslims killed and tortured Bahai’s and kicked them out of Iran! You full know that the reason why Muslims persecuted Bahai’s is because they do not agree that Bahai’s have the right understanding of Islam!

          Apparently you think it is easier to fool the non-Muslims than it is to convince the Muslims, so you are selling your snake-oil here at JW! I recommend you sell your idea at some leftist sites. No one is going to fall for your fiction here!

        • Ralph says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 8:44 am

          FYI about Muslims:
          Study the history of the deeds of Islam …270 million dead ..If you think we can co-exist with people that follow this book , you had better read it again till it soaks in …!

          ) Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them. Qur’an 2:19

          2) Make war on the infidels living in your neighborhood. Qur’an 9:123

          3) Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable. Qur’an 3:85

          4) The Jews and Christians are perverts; fight them.” Qur’an 9:30.

          5) Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam. Qur’an 5:33

          6) The infidels are unclean; do not let them into a mosque. Qur’an 9:28

          7) Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies. Qur’an 22:19

          8) Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them. Qur’an 47:4

          9) The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them. Qur’an 8:65

          10) Muslims must not take the infidels as friends. Qur’an 3:28

          11) Terrorize and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an. Qur’an 8:12

          12) Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels. Qur’an 8:60

          13) Be terrified that Allah will replace you and put others in your place and inflict you with a painful doom. Qur’an 9:38 and 39. “The militant Muslim is the person who beheads the infidel, while the moderate Muslim holds the feet of the victim.” — Marco Polo (1254-1324).

          Quran 8:39 – And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah.

          Quran 8:12 – I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

          Quran 3:56 – As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.

          Quran 8:67 – It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land.

          Quran 9:14 – Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people.

          Quran 9:29 – Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (Meaning pay a tax, which is what ISIS is doing)

          From the Hadieth –

          Muslim (1:33) – the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah

          Bukhari 8:387 – Allah’s Apostle said, “I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah’. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally.

          Bukhari 52:73 – Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords.

          Bukhari 1:35 – The person who participates in (Holy Battles) in Allah’s cause and nothing compels him do so except belief in Allah and His Apostle, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty ( if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise ( if he is killed).

          Quran 3:56 – As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.

          Quran 8:67 – It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land.

          Quran 9:14 – Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people.

          Quran 9:29 – Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (Meaning pay a tax, which is what ISIS is doing)

          From the Hadieth –

          Muslim (1:33) – the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah

          Bukhari 8:387 – Allah’s Apostle said, “I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah’. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally.

          Bukhari 52:73 – Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 11:13 am

          Ralph.

          Why do people always quote sura 2:191 without sura 2:190??

          By only quoting sura 2:191 people are trying to prove that the Quran promotes mass murder of the innocent. However upon reading the preceding sura 2:190 the picture changes entirely and it’s clear that the Quran forbids all forms of terrorism and harming of innocents.

          Is there a fear of being honest lest it be discovered to ones horror that the Quran actually clearly forbids terrorism??

          It clearly says not to fight UNLESS ATTACKED FIRST. So those who pride themselves on quoting only sura 2:191 ‘kill them wherever you find them’ where is their fair mindedness, justice and honesty????? Where is the justice in trying to present the Quran as murderous when it says the opposite clearly and unambiguously in the preceding Sura??

          Every site attacking Islam always use sura 2:191 ‘kill them wherever you find them’. But omits ‘do not attack unless attacked first’

          This list is short. There are many more translators showing that Sura 2:190 clearly forbids attacking first.

          Quran Sura 2:190

          “And fight for the religion of GOD against those who fight against you; but transgress not by attacking them first, for GOD loveth not the transgressors.”

          “And fight for the cause of God against those who fight against you: but commit not the injustice of attacking them first: God loveth not such injustice”

          Excerpt From: Muhammad. “The Koran translated by Rodwell.”

          “[2:190] You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors.”

          Excerpt From: Dr. Rashad Khalifa Ph.D. “Quran: The Final Testament – Authorised English Version.” Dr. Rashad Khalifa Ph.D.

          2:190 Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.”

          Excerpt From: Pickthall, Marmaduke. “The Meaning Of The Glorious Quran.”

        • cjk says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 11:17 am

          Evil, deceiving, fantasy like that is good enough for me to now understand a little about Bahaism and TO COMPLETELY REJECT IT.

        • Jack Diamond says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 12:53 pm

          Quran Sura 2:190
          “And fight for the religion of GOD against those who fight against you; but transgress not by attacking them first, for GOD loveth not the transgressors.”

          The consensus of Islamic scholars has always been that Allah revealed the rules of warfare in phases, finalized in the last revelations of sura 9, corresponding to whether Muslims were weak (in Mecca) or strong (Medina). All previous or “peaceful” verses were abrogated by the verse of the sword. So jihad is defined in manuals of shari’a like ‘Umdat al-Salik:

          The scriptural basis for jihad, prior to scholarly consensus is such Koranic verses as:
          1) Fighting is prescribed for you (2:216)
          2) Slay them wherever you find them (4:89)
          3) Fight the idolaters utterly (9:36)

          and such Hadiths as the one related by Bukhari and Muslim that the Prophet said:
          “I have been commanded to fight people until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and perform the prayer, and pay zakat. If they say it, they have saved their blood and possessions from me, except for the rights of Islam over them. And their final reckoning is with Allah.”

          Sura 9:5 and 9:29 involve attacking first. Convert or die. Convert or die or be humiliated and subjugated. They are open-ended commands and in no sense understood as “historical” with no relevance for Muslims thereafter. They were and are marching orders.

          Unlike 2:190, which does have a limited context. The context of 2:190 was that the Muslims did not yet rule Mecca but were now strong enough to defend themselves. It only refers to the Meccans and their allies, there is nothing open-ended or comprehensive about it, even if it wasn’t supplanted by the next phase of (offensive) warfare. The significance of 2:191 is stated by Ibn Kathir in his commentary:

          “As Jihad involves death and the killing of men, Allah draws our attention to the fact that the disbelief and polytheism of the disbelievers, and their avoidance of Allah’s path are far worse than killing. Thus Allah says, “And Fitnah is worse than killing.” This is to say that shirk (Polytheism) is more serious and worse than killing.”

          The disbelief and shirk of the disbelievers (which includes Christians and Jews) is worse than killing them, because they spread discord and corruption which might lead Muslims away from Islam. Waging war against Islam, as defined by the scholars, includes disbelief itself, not merely physically attacking Muslims.

          “The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off on the opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter.” 5:33 Tasfir Ibn Kathir “`Wage war’ mentioned here means, oppose and contradict, and it includes disbelief, blocking roads and spreading fear in the fairways. Mischief in the land refers to various types of evil. ” Similarly 8:39 to 2:191: “And fight them until there is no more Fitnah, and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah alone.”Ibn Kathir: “(it is) the order to eradicate Shirk & Kufr. Fight them until there is no more Fitnah (trial in religion) & the religion will be for Allah alone (so that there is no more “Kufr”, disbelief).” Islam fights people based on what they believe, not whether infidels physically attack the “innocent, peaceful Muslims who just want to be left alone.”

          The purpose of Jihad is defined to remove the obstacles to the spread of Islam. The Islamic armies did not leave Arabia to conquer the world with a bloody sword because anybody was “threatening” them (except by their disbelief). Any more than they were “threatened” within Arabia until they began attacking others. No wonder the fantastic attempt to defend at all costs the reputation of Muhammad and Islam devolves to having to invent a new Qur’an and having to erase most everything Muhammad said or did. This is dishonest, deceptive, and ultimately it is apologia for evil.

        • Aussie Infidel says

          Dec 27, 2015 at 5:55 am

          Worldcitizen1919, I am well aware of the importance of context within the Quran, as I am also of abrogation. Sura 9 was the last one supposedly ‘revealed’ to Muhammad, and therefore overrules earlier ones such as Sura 2. But we also live in the real world where jihadists quote the various suras often mentioned here, from which they derive their motivation for their attacks. It’s not a question of me or the other people on JW cherry picking suras, the jihadists do that themselves.

          Obviously as a Bahai, you still believe in a divine God. However, as an Atheist, I have no religious beliefs whatever; and to me, any claims that the Quran is the ‘word of God’, are simply nonsense. Those who claim knowledge of supernatural beings such as Gods and angels should provide the evidence of their existence, so it can be authenticated. But of course, that will never happen, because religions are simply ‘faiths’, ie beliefs without proof. Even though I have no religious beliefs, I believe that others should have the right to believe whatever they like, so long as they are not harming others. But of course, Islam would fail that test miserably. There have been over 27,500 deadly attacks against non-Muslims since 9/11. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

          I prefer to get my understanding of the world from science, rather than mystical writings in some ancient holy book. That’s not to say that at present, science can answer all our questions – it can’t and might never do so. But taking a leap into the hypothetical world of the supernatural (whatever that might be), is simply an exercise in wishful thinking, and doesn’t provide the answers either. After all, religions evolved because humans were attempting to explain their own existence and the world about them. But since those ancient sages were scientifically illiterate, they got it wrong. The only explanation such people could imagine was that some supernatural being or god with magical powers, brought it about. Virtually every religion today is syncretic (contains beliefs borrowed from preceding religions), which have been handed down for millennia from one indoctrinated generation to the next, without any real attempts to validate them. In fact, validation would be logically impossible, because our methods of investigation are limited to the natural world. And that’s the only world we know – anything else is pure speculation.

          Even if your arguments about the intent of the various sura are true, how does that benefit us in dealing with Muslims? Surely, it is a matter of what is happening around the world today? Are you suggesting that present-day Muslims are not waging holy war against non-Muslims? Or that we in the West might be to blame for the attacks against us? Are you happy that Muslims continue to “kill and tortue” Bahais for their beliefs? Christian communities only co-existed under Muslim rule as dhimmis. Why are those countries now majority Muslim? Are you not concerned that Israel or other Western countrties could be subjected to the same fate as all those others? Are you happy to live under a totalitarian system of government, with its compulsory religious rituals and barbaric ‘divinely revealed’ laws? Are the laws spelled out in the Reliance of the Traveller also erroneous?

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 27, 2015 at 11:46 pm

          So a fellow Aussie! I used to be a very devout aetheist until I came across the Baha’is and then after reading their literature found that it was the only thing my mind and heart could accept as it all makes so much sense.

          As to how to deal with Muslims. My understanding is there are around 1.6 billion worldwide. The good professor a fellow aetheist of yours who has recently appeared on ABC Andrew MacLeod said that we should define the ‘us and them’ clearly in our minds before attacking Islam and Muslims and their beliefs.

          He said is it us all westerner’s versus 1.6 billion Musims in a war of unparalleled dimensions or us moderates vs the terrorists which narrows down the field as well as the need to draw in an entire civilisation. And this is my point.

          1.6 billion Muslims are not against the west and most of them are good, decent upright people who live good lives but people pick from news clips all the negative things and try to portray that as representing 1.6 billion Muslims’ views and attitudes which is only widening the rift between east and west

          Muslims worldwide are good upright people due to their belief in the Quran and Muhammad if you can see past the saturation of negative news clips.

          Looking at the true wider picture I find Muslims are a beautiful people with wonderfully rich cultures and foods and language which all enrich humanity.

          Look at history and all the knowledge Islam brought to the west.

          There is no case to hate on 1.6 billion fellow human beings by attacking their beliefs and demonising them. It’s a sickness that Hitler and his nazi propaganda machine had with the Jews. He was obsessed with hating on them and so many innocent people were able to be gassed as a result of hate propaganda.

          Are we going to build a similar propaganda machine against Islam? I would argue we are already erecting it. And it will lead to no good. Freedom of speech and hate propaganda are entirely different things.

          We have hate propaganda on both sides from Muslim sources and western and they don’t help peace or unity between us but aggravate any chance we have of harmony.

          Hitler had to be destroyed and so does ISIS and Al Quaeda etc but not all 1.6 billion Muslims and the Quran and Muhammad are evil.

          Religious profiling here is trying to portray via news clips that the average Muslim is a killer and that is exactly the kind of propaganda which led to the gassing of 6 million Jews.

          Baha’is are persecuted because of ‘propaganda’. Our history shows propaganda is used to promote war, hatred and genocide of innocent people.

          I’m not on the side of a Jewish holocaust or a Baha’i or Muslim one but you look at the people jumping on this hate Muslim propaganda and you can see Professor Andrew MacLeod’s concern that we do not define the ‘us and them’ as us versus 1.6 billion Muslims which would involve us in a catastrophe of undreamed of dimensions.

          We are not at war with 1.6 billion people but by attacking the beliefs of 1.6 billion people we are virtually declaring war on them and that is clearly wrong.

          http://youtu.be/RAnes0EhSHg

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 27, 2015 at 11:52 pm

          Can someone please advise me if I am permitted to paste links to YouTube.

          I posted a YouTube link and if I was not supposed to I sincerely apologise and ask it be removed.

        • gravenimage says

          Dec 29, 2015 at 11:36 pm

          “worldcitizen1919” wrote:

          Many united to exterminate Muhammad and His followers so they were forced to take up arms…
          ……………………………..

          Early Christians were persecuted, and they did not “take up arms”. And Muslims were hardly threatened in Medina–but Muhammed quickly took over, liquidating his rivals. Islam was a conquering creed almost from its beginning–and Islam was headed by a violent war lord. Christianity could not be more different.

          More:

          I can only add that your sources and interpretation of Quranic verses differ from mine inasmuch as Hadiths I do not recognise as valid as many were written by enemies to defame Muhammad and the Quranic verses interpretation is not referring to all Jews & Christians but those who betrayed their peace pacts and secretly sided with Muhammad’s oppressors who were intent on genocide, Muhammad could not support the genocide of His people so after 13 years allowed them to defend themselves which is reasonable…
          ……………………………..

          There is only one source for the Qur’an–that is the Qur’an itself, a hideously violent tome. And the sources of Hadith are Sahih Bukari and Muslim–recognized by all Sunni Muslims as reliable.

          But the laughable thing is that the picture of Muhammed presented is virtually identical to and reinforces the view of the “Prophet” presented in the Qur’an and in the Sira–the idea that these were ginned up by “enemies” of Muhammed simply makes no sense–nor that they are accepted by pious Muslims.

          More:

          My views and sources differ but I believe proper research will find that Muhammad did not attack Christians but protected them and that it was the Caliphs later who misused their power to fight against Christians and Jews but in many countries Christian communities have lived in peace with Muslims for centuries.
          ……………………………..

          Muslims oppressed and brutalized Christians for well over a millenium–it is only if you mean that Christians “lived in peace” with Muslims because Muslims treated them like threatened dhimmis that this is true.

          If you laud *this*, then you are as vicious as your Muslim overlords. *Ugh*.

          More:

          Other Chrisitians were to be treated kindly. My source is from a Baha’i source but the document also exists in Jerusalem…
          ……………………………..

          What is so sickening about this is that these supposed pacts with Muhammed were forgeries by desperate Christians hoping to ward off Muslim violence–St. Catherine’s Monastery in the Sinai is one, Najran is another. These have all been long since debunked, but this apologist is flogging them here.

          More:

          A gross injustice has been done in the west to Muhammad I believe and that is because of prejudiced information.
          ……………………………..

          Right–the information presented in the Qur’an, Hadith, and Sira–all the orthodox sources of information–are “prejudiced”…

          More:

          Read what the Baha’i scripture says about Muhammad as Baha’is are persecuted by Muslims in Iran so they are a truly independent source of information and although killed and tortured for their beliefs they have the right understanding of the Quran and Muhammad.
          ……………………………..

          People who are killed and tortured frequently desperately flatter their oppressors in the hope of mercy. This is seen with all dhimmis in Dar-al-Islam. Baha’i are not considered “people of the book”, bt they are ipso facto dhimmis.”

          More:

          Baha’u’llah, Who we believe was the return of Christ in the glory of the Father unsealed the meanings of the Bible and Quran and shed light on all the confusion.
          ……………………………..

          Jesus in Christianity and Islam are entirely different. Jesus–Isa–in Islam is a vicious figure who returns to earth in the last days in order to kill Christians.

          More:

          Trust me. Neither you not Jihad Watch have the correct information about the Quran or Muhammad. That’s a big call but so is this from Baha’u’llah…. The Promised One awaited by one and all.
          ……………………………..

          Why don’t you take this up with ravening Muslims, acting in the name of their foul “Prophet” and on the tenets of the Qur’an? Instead, you excoriate the good Infidels here for daring to say that Muslims are murdering us on these bases.

          More:

          I’m not a Muslim but I’ve stiudied Islam and the Quran for 40 years and know what I’m talking about. The verses quoted all have a historical background and definitions of unbeliever then is not our blue collar aetheist today but killers and those who would commit genocide…
          ……………………………..

          This means that this poster is an apologist for Muhammed slaughtering entire tribes and enslaving the woman and children–exactly what ISIS is doing in the name of Islam today. Damn disturbing…

          More:

          The interpretation terrorists push and what you hear here are falsified. Muhammad never taught hate or bigotry but people and those who are prejudice do.
          ……………………………..

          Even if it were true that what over a billion pious Muslims have believed for almost 1400 years is false, and what a small sect has believed for little over a century is correct, we would still be faced with the problem of millions of Muslims wanting to oppress and murder us.

          This poster’s only answer to this is to tell us that it is Islam’s *victims* who are wrong…

          Yet more:

          Why do people always quote sura 2:191 without sura 2:190??
          ……………………………..

          All Qur’an 2:190 says is that Muslims should wage violent Jihad, but should “not transgress”–we all know what horrors Muslims can commit against innocent people without considering it a transgression.

          More:

          Quran Sura 2:190

          “And fight for the religion of GOD against those who fight against you; but transgress not by attacking them first, for GOD loveth not the transgressors.”
          ……………………………..

          Here’s Sahih International’s translation of Qur’an 2:190:

          “Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.”

          What this apologist will not tell you is that those who “fight” Islam are *not* those who “attack first”, but those who resist the hegemony of Islam *in any way*–even passively. That means that every last person here at Jihad Watch–even any pacifists–who object to being oppressed or murdered by Muslims is a legitimate target.

          More:

          1.6 billion Muslims are not against the west and most of them are good, decent upright people who live good lives but people pick from news clips all the negative things and try to portray that as representing 1.6 billion Muslims’ views and attitudes which is only widening the rift between east and west
          ……………………………..

          I’m so tired of this rot.

          Firstly, it is Muslims *attacking us*. Positing that this is not a war if we decided to pretend that it is not happening is absurd.

          And then thinking that over 27,500 Jihad terror attacks is not what is “widening the rift between east and west”, but just the concerns of people who do not want to roll over for Muslim aggression.

          More:

          Muslims worldwide are good upright people due to their belief in the Quran and Muhammad if you can see past the saturation of negative news clips.
          ……………………………..

          You have stated this over and over again–and yet, their belief in the Qur’an and Muhammed is *exactly* what is leading them to attack and murder us.

          More:

          Looking at the true wider picture I find Muslims are a beautiful people with wonderfully rich cultures and foods and language which all enrich humanity.

          Look at history and all the knowledge Islam brought to the west.
          ……………………………..

          Examples, please.

          I would echo Byzantine emperor Manuel II Palaiologos, who said:

          “Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.”

          More:

          There is no case to hate on 1.6 billion fellow human beings by attacking their beliefs and demonising them. It’s a sickness that Hitler and his nazi propaganda machine had with the Jews…
          ……………………………..

          *Sickening* calumny. If we are concerned with Muslims attacking and murdering us, then we are morally equivalent to genocidal maniacs.

          What makes this all the more perverse is that the Islamic view of the Jews is virtually identical to that of the Nazis. Hitler is, in fact, one of the very few Infidels Muslims admire–and they often taunt Jews with vows to finish the Holocaust.

          More:

          Are we going to build a similar propaganda machine against Islam? I would argue we are already erecting it. And it will lead to no good. Freedom of speech and hate propaganda are entirely different things.
          ……………………………..

          Does this apologist want to see all criticism of Islam and the “Prophet” banned in the free West, as it is under Shari’ah?

          More:

          We have hate propaganda on both sides from Muslim sources and western and they don’t help peace or unity between us but aggravate any chance we have of harmony.
          ……………………………..

          Ah…right. Muslim hate speech says they want to kill us, Western “hate speech” says Islam is violent. Pretending these are morally equivalent is grotesque.

          More:

          Hitler had to be destroyed and so does ISIS and Al Quaeda etc but not all 1.6 billion Muslims and the Quran and Muhammad are evil.
          ……………………………..

          No one here has ever talked about genocide. All we want is for Muslims to stop murdering us and attempting to impose Shari’ah law. Pretending this is “genocide” is the most grotesque calumny.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 30, 2015 at 12:57 am

          You want Muslims to stop murdering people then what do you propose?

        • Champ says

          Dec 30, 2015 at 1:32 am

          You want Muslims to stop murdering people then what do you propose?

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Back atcha’

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 30, 2015 at 1:40 am

          It’s one thing to condemn terrorism but what is needed is a workable solution. You have one? So how do we go about eliminating terrorism? You have any plan?

        • Champ says

          Dec 30, 2015 at 1:55 am

          It’s one thing to condemn terrorism but what is needed is a workable solution. You have one? So how do we go about eliminating terrorism? You have any plan?

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          No plan here …

          What’s your plan? You seem to think that you have all the answers.

        • gravenimage says

          Dec 30, 2015 at 7:54 pm

          worldcitizen1919 wrote:

          You want Muslims to stop murdering people then what do you propose?
          …………………………..

          The prerequisite for answering this question is a rejection of denial–of pretending that Jihads are “misunderstanding” Islam, or that Islam does not teach the violence that it teaches.

          As long as we continue to do that, we will remain mired in denial, and unable to even name the threat, let alone address it.

          It would have been just the same seventy years ago if we had gone on pretending that Fascism was benignant.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 30, 2015 at 10:23 pm

          Hello.

          The Quran clearly gives Muslims the right to wage holy war against their enemies.

          While their countries are being bombed by Christians they consider that gives them a mandate to wage holy war against their attackers which in this case is the west and those Muslims who support the west.

          What do you do?? How to stop this madness?

        • gravenimage says

          Dec 31, 2015 at 8:28 pm

          Pretending that the aggressive global Jihad is due to Muslims “being bombed by Christians”–that this bloody push for global hegemony is *defensive*–could not be more grotesque.

          Our recent involvement in Muslim countries–poorly executed in many cases or not–has been an attempt to *respond* to unprovoked Jihad attacks against us. It is only apologists for this savagery who pretend that Jihad atrocities against innocent people is “defensive”. *Ugh*.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 31, 2015 at 8:46 pm

          Happy New Year!! I hope your 2016 is awesome!!!

          That’s the way these fanatics view it. I know that they are wrong but they believe the west started all this. That’s their view. But that is not the bed of the Auran.

          Jihad was only for the time Muhammad was persecuted and they tried to exterminate and ethnic cleanse Islam.

          There is no valid use for jihadists today. It is not an eternal law of the Quran but only a law for that time and was specific about who to go after and who not to kill and people who didn’t attack Muslims were allowed safe passage and not harmed.

          I never supported terrorism as it is horrible and also am 100% sure that the jihad in the Quran is only referring to situations at that time in history.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 31, 2015 at 8:48 pm

          Sorry about misspelling. Should read ‘not the law of the Quran’

          The Quran’s permission to fight was only for that time not now.

    • Edward says

      Dec 25, 2015 at 11:58 pm

      “God is always good, wonderful, great, loving and kind and that never changes but people have used the name of God like in the crusades to kill yet it is against the law of God to kill.”

      I totally agree with your thoughts about God’s beneficent attributes, but some serious reflections about the Crusades are needed to be reconsidered!

      http://www.catholiceducation.org/en/controversy/the-crusades/the-real-history-of-the-crusades.html

      • worldcitizen1919 says

        Dec 26, 2015 at 1:41 am

        There is nothing wrong in self defense only it degenerated into hatred between Christians and Muslims which exists to this day. Everyone has the right of self defense when attacked and that is the situation which Muhammad first found himself when the tribes united to exterminate and commit genocide against His Muslim Community. But was the Crusades self defense?

        The Crusades were not a simply self defense act but there were deep hatreds and prejudices involved by both sides. The Christians believed Muhammad was a false prophet as told them by their clergy but the Muslims maintained that He was prophesied in the Bible in references to Mount Paran where the Holy One would arise.

        Their differences thus irreconcilable they warred for place after place believing themselves to be the true custodian of truth.

        The fight for a Holy Place in the Name of God was the obscenity.

        The Crusaders’ committed horrible atrocities, raping, murdering and plundering Jews, Muslims and other Christians en route to Palestine. When they reached Jerusalem in 1099, blood flowed freely. Jews fled to a synagogue and Muslims to a mosque. Crusaders burned the synagogue, killing about 6,000 Jews, and stormed the mosque, butchering an estimated 30,000 Muslims. They left a legacy of fear and contempt in the Muslim world.

        That’s not what we call self defense but religious fanaticism akin to today’s terrorism. Both sides were guilty. There is no right actor here. They were all butchers Muslims and Christians.

        • David A says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 7:22 am

          There is some truth in this, just as so called Christian’s, burned or drowned thousands of “witches”. The vanished history of all humans is dark with many shames.

          Citizen. While I like your version of Islam; rejection of the Hadith, and submit or die becomes an internal battle for attunement to the Divine or spiritual death, it is an extreme minority, and some propenets of this view are executed.

          What hope to you see in such views, including rejection of external Sharia, ever achieving common reform?

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 8:16 am

          We have the same hope the early disciples had. Although they were scattered, oppressed and persecuted they made this world another world.

          Christianity spread far and wide until it won the hearts of kings and queens and still shines a brilliant light on our dark world.

          That all wars should cease and all men be as brothers is the dream of the Prophets of old and while we see bigotry and hate try and take us back to ancient times we also witness world solidarity. The people of the world mingling as one human family.

          The old order is dying and the new world of justice, peace and unity is emerging like a baby from the womb. It’s painful but this new birth will bring a glorious golden age of peace for humanity.

          World peace is inevitable and the next stage in our human evolution as we mature as a species. As day follows night peace will come.

    • RonaldB says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 11:29 am

      Let me summarize the information on Baha’i that I have elaborated on elsewhere on this thread:

      Baha’i is a cult that rigidly enforces orthodoxy on its followers. Any Baha’i who publicly expressed independent thought is ruthlessly dropped from membership in the church without appeal and shunned by family and friends.

      Baha’i is based on revelation by its own prophet, so they effortless pull unsupported doctrines out of thin air, and present them as deep revelations. In fact, Baha’i doctrine is adopted by unelected officials without general discussion or criticism.

      Baha’i claims to describe a world government which will bring peace, harmony and prosperity to all people. In fact, Baha’i world government is basically income redistribution from the rich to the poor. They use terminology designed to make it seem like a deep thought, but in fact, it’s simply the most shallow economic logic possible.

      The Baha’i claim to revere Muhammud as a prophet, and claim that any accusations that he was a vicious torturing pirate are based on incorrect hadiths. What determines if a hadith is incorrect: obviously, if it presents Muhammud as a vicious, torturing pirate, it is incorrect.

      The Baha’i were allied with the Shah of Iran, and supported his use of SAVAK, a ruthless secret police that used imprisonment and systematic torture to suppress dissent in Iran. Part of the Iranian persecution of Baha’s stems from the normal impulse of Muslims to persecute anyone who is not a Muslim, but part is also payback for the excesses of SAVAK. In truth, I’m not sure if any secular dictator in a Muslim country has any choice but to persecute fervent Muslims if he wants to have a modern country. The Shah encouraged education and the equality of women. But, the Baha’i attempt to portray themselves as harmless victims, when they are quite capable of supporting totalitarian dictators.

      • worldcitizen1919 says

        Dec 26, 2015 at 12:19 pm

        People are most welcome to google and read and decide for themselves about the Baha’i Faith.

        But people who want to believe Baha’is are evil and bad and a cult etc will believe it no matter what so I respect you are entitled to your view.

        Please feel most welcome to criticise and scrutinise so truth can be distinguished from falsehood.

        • KnowThyEnemy says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 12:52 pm

          Are Bahai’s “evil and bad”? No.

          Are Bahai’s naive and deluded (just like the western liberals)? Yes!

          I say it again- If you believe you understand Islam better than Muslims then go preach your version of Islam to them, not to us! If you try to sell it to us, we will only think that you are in cahoots with Muslims aiming to deceive us!

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 1:10 pm

          Sorry. My only intention is to create better understanding between east and west so that hopefully one day we can all enjoy peace. No offense or peddling was intended.

          Sincerely apologise if I offended anyone but I just want us all to get along on this planet. I meant no harm or insult. Again my sincerest apologies.

        • Mirren10 says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 3:23 pm

          ”Sincerely apologise if I offended anyone but I just want us all to get along on this planet. I meant no harm or insult. Again my sincerest apologies.”

          Instead of nauseating ‘apologies’, why don’t you answer RonaldB’s points ? Oh, I know, because you can’t.

          And as KnowThyEnemy points out, why waste your time telling *us* ?
          Tell it to the mohammedans.

      • worldcitizen1919 says

        Dec 26, 2015 at 9:18 pm

        I thought I answered your questions untik someone here said I hadn’t so thanks to him. about the Shah of Iran Baha’is are non political no matter what accusations people want to make that’s what we are non political. That the Shah of Iran’s doctor was a Baha’i is because he didn’t trust a Muslim to be his doctor as he thought they would try and assassinate him. As Baha’is do not involve themselves in politics they are trusted not to assassinate leaders and they don’t.

        What else. As I said anyone can be a Baha’i but not if they are a terrorist or doing evil things like Muslims do. A Muslim can keep their memberships and go and blow up people. A Baha’i for instance must resign from the Faith to accept a political post as Baha’is do not get involved in politics.

        About shunning. If another Baha’i tries to create another Baha’i Faith within the Baha’i Faith, in other words another Baha’i sect and destroy the unity of our Faith and persist then they are expelled and they are shunned.

        This is the correct thing to do to one who suffers from a spiritual disease like Muslims who are terrorists. They are infected with hate and want to murder so how can they still be considered Muslims. In our religion it is impossible to give membership to people such as terrorists.

        Let’s take Islam. If it took full responsibility for its terrorism would we be in the situation we are now?

        A religion which is truly responsible to society must take action against its members if they are causing harm to the community and although expulsion is very rare it happens and works because we don’t have the terrorists Islam does simply because we act against those who would do damage and harm us and society yet Islam does nothing but sit on their hands. Correct or mpnit?

        World government is only something we think will come to pass but we have no involvement in establishing it. It is up to the world to establish something like that. Already we see ASEAN and the EEU so the world is certainly headed towards world solidarity but that is something the world has to deal with we Baha’is are non political.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 9:28 pm

          Correction to spelling should read ‘correct or not?

    • Lauren says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 4:45 pm

      Am glad to read some of the postings, info., and debate on this thread. It’s MUCH more interesting than a lot of the typical Muslim bashing postings that go on. Keep the ‘debates’ going, it helps people like me who check in here, and am reading/listening about all the different perspectives on Islam, and the conflicts going on.

      Recently, a local radio station has had a man named Qasim Rashid on, talking about Islam and Mohamed. You can Google him of course.

      My hope is that the amazingly strong men, and especially women who are Muslim, and also want to live in a democratic society will keep having the strength to continue pushing for change. They are willing to face death threats and even death to change things. They are the ones who will need to win the war.

      Religion/Politics…all the conflict nationally and internationally sure can make ones head spin.

      This is getting very sad and scary. The battles are intensifying.

      • worldcitizen1919 says

        Dec 26, 2015 at 9:58 pm

        Hi Lauran,

        I like it here because people say what’s in their heart. And I say what’s in my heart and so we all come together debating about what we believe to be true.

      • gravenimage says

        Dec 29, 2015 at 11:44 pm

        I’m afraid Qasim Rashid is an Ahmadi apologist for the savagery of Islam. You can read more here:

        “Ahmadi Muslim leader Qasim Rashid whitewashes Muhammad’s support for torture”

        http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/12/ahmadi-muslim-leader-qasim-rashid-whitewashes-muhammads-support-for-torture

        There’s lots more about this meretricious figure in the Jihad Watch archives.

        And note: while the Ahmadiyya *do* reject violent Jihad, they *don’t* reject brutal Shari’ah law, which they want to see imposed just as does every orthodox Muslim.

  13. Jennifer King says

    Dec 26, 2015 at 1:17 am

    In Arabic, the Qur’an and Sharia, Almighty God is Ilah and Allah is the god. Therefore the Book was named The Criterion, the criterion between right and wrong, good and evil. Almighty God is Ilah, Ar Rahman, the Beneficent, the Most Merciful, the Most Gracious.
    The Shahada, the Muslim pledge of faith, denies God:
    La ilaha ill-Allah, there is no God/god but Allah.
    The sentence comprises a denial and an affirmation.
    Negation: ‘La ilah’ negates all forms of God or god.
    Affirmation: ‘illAllah’ affirms that there is only Allah.
    Before you can say ‘I believe in Allah’(illa Allah) you have to reject or disbelieve in any other god or God (La illaha).
    Question 179 Islam Q&A http://www.islam-qa.com
    Questions 114, 6703, 11819, 20239, 20815
    Many of the Mecca chapters have versions of stories about the Hebrew Heroes, in the name of Almighty Ilah, and also in the name of Allah. Allah is always called Allah:
    Qur’an 41:84 It is He Who is the only God in the heaven and the only God on the earth.
    Ibn Kathir: This means He is the God of those who are in the heaven and the God of those on earth.
    Qur’an 43:84 It is He Who is Ilah, God in the heaven and on the earth.
    Qur’an 6:3 And He is Allah in the heavens and on the earth.
    Ibn Abbas: He is the One who is called Allah in the heavens and on the earth.
    Qur’an 19:65 Lord of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them, so worship Him and abide patiently in His worship. Do you know of any other with His Name?
    Ibn Kathir: Ibn Abbas says, ‘There is no one named Ar-Rahman (the Most Beneficent) other than Him, Blessed and Exalted is He. Most Holy is His Name.’
    See Quran chapters 19, 20, 21, 25, 26, 36, 37, 41, 43, 67, etc.

    • No Fear says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 1:49 am

      The Quran is simply a recipe.
      If you have faith and follow instructions then something will be produced as a result.
      The problem is that the end product of that recipe is a bunch of inbred religious supremacists who think the world will be improved by eliminating all those who do NOT follow the recipe.

  14. No Fear says

    Dec 26, 2015 at 1:40 am

    I exclaim “Allah U Akbar” whenever I defaecate into the toilet bowl.

    I suggest that everyone follow my perfect example.

    • No Fear says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 1:42 am

      I forgot to add that everyone should face my house when they pray.
      Geographic coordinates of my house will be supplied only to true believers.

    • Edwin1683 says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 7:48 pm

      Great idea. Also recommended when passing malodorous gas: “Allah P.U. Akbar”.

  15. Richard says

    Dec 26, 2015 at 2:26 am

    Allahu Akbar translates as “Allah is the Greatest” or “Allah is Greater”. See google translate الله أكبر

    I read somewhere, and this seems to make the most sense – Greater than what? or the Greatest what? and the origins were- the greatest god of all the Gods in Mecca during Muhammad’s time.

    The Quran, (that is Muhammad, who was obviously the chief author and spokesman of the Quran and Allah), admits that Allah , (who also had daughters), was a pagan god well known to the pagans of Mecca, 16:57 and 53:19-21.

    This was the origins of their war cry of Islamic supremacy.

  16. KnowThyEnemy says

    Dec 26, 2015 at 2:28 am

    “In Islam, the outcome actually determined by human choice, math, probability, luck and machinery are all under Allah’s control,……….”

    In my belief system too everything and anything that happens, no matter how good or bad, is under God’s control. That is, God wishes/ wished things to happen that way. If I work hard on a project hoping for one type of result, but some different result happens, it is because [my] God wanted it to be that way.

    If Islam and Muhammad happened, it was because [my] God wanted them to happen! If immense suffering happened under Islam in the last 1400 years, it too was because [my] God wished it to happen!

    So how is my God different from Islam’s Allah?

    There are many differences, but the two primary ones are these-

    1) [My] God never claimed/stated what “Allah” said in Quran 5:101-102! The verses say “O you who believe! Ask not about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. But if you ask about them while the Qur’ân is being revealed, they will be made plain to you. Allâh has forgiven that, and Allâh is Oft¬Forgiving, Most Forbearing. Before you, a community asked such questions, then on that account they became disbelievers. ”

    [My] God instead says “Ask questions, and ask as many questions as you want! Ask, because you have a chance of getting answers only when you ask!”, and

    2) [My] God never claimed/stated what “Allah” said in Quran 33:36! The verse says “ It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allâh and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allâh and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in to a plain error.”

    [My] God has made clear that whatever matter S/He decreed, IS what will actually play out! It is impossible to “disobey”, or to have an option other than the one S/He decreed! All I can do is try, (which I must, but that is besides the issue)!

    These two differences alone make my religion completely different from Islam, even though at first glance it does not seem that way. The fact that Islam’s “Allah” has revealed the above mentioned verses, makes it clear (at least to me) that these verses were revealed by an entity who did not already have total control over everything, but who was hoping to take control through ‘revealing’ these verses. Such an entity can be anyone, but it canNOT be God!

    • KnowThyEnemy says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 2:59 am

      Corrections and clarifications:

      1) *Ask, because you have a chance of getting answers only when you ask, and/or when you have an open mind.

      2) *All I can do is try [to do whatever makes sense to me], which I must!

    • worldcitizen1919 says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 3:07 am

      The different Messengers of God appeared at different times in history to different people and gave them laws that were required for that age but at a later age revoked or changed those laws to suit them to humanitys advancement.

      Christ taught mostly about individual love. Buddha taught mindfulness and meditation. These are all qualities we need to spiritually develop. Muhammad developed community and nationhood establishing a community with laws advancing humanity to prepare it for the next step which was to be nationalism.

      After nationalism was established all throughout the world by last century Baha’u’llah appeared with teachings and laws for the oneness of all humanity, the oneness of religion and the equality of men and women.

      The world wasn’t discovered in Christ time so that is why He said I have many things to say but you can’t bear them now. How could He tell them about the unity of mankind when America and other countries had not yet been discovered?

      Baha’u’llah taught ‘The world is but one country and mankind its citizens’. The laws and teachings have been adapted to our spiritual growth an development and the needs of the age.

      The need of this age is to remove prejudice of race, religion, sexism. nationality and culture and the teachings of Baha’u’llah are all about how to become united although we are different.

      This is the age when east and west are to embrace as friends because technology has made it so because it’s God’s will we all love all humanity so the means for world brotherhood have been provided.

      We are having teething problems because of our bias and attachment to the past but all the world is one family and as to terrorism we must all unite to destroy it and educate youth that all humanity is one family and no one race or religion are superior.

      But it will take time to educate people just like it took time before blacks got equal rights in America. It didn’t happen overnight but it will happen. We will become a world at peace despite setbacks sometimes because it’s a promise of God in His Holy Bible.

      • gravenimage says

        Dec 30, 2015 at 8:15 pm

        worldcitizen1919 wrote:

        Muhammad developed community and nationhood establishing a community with laws advancing humanity to prepare it for the next step which was to be nationalism.
        ………………………………….

        Where to start? Islam has never been about “nationalism”–instead, it rejects the idea of nation-states in favor of the supremacy of the Islamic Ummah, and politically has always held the Caliphate as the ideal–although circumstances have not always allowed them to impose the Caliphate.

        True nations were not developed under Islam, but under the free West.

        As for community, this is only community in the sense of supremacist Muslims oppressing and enslaving Infidels and other-sect Muslims.

        And if by “laws advancing humanity” you mean the horrors of brutal Shari’ah, this is simply grotesque. Shari’ah is inferior not just to modern Western law, but to Roman law, and those of Byzantium and the Medieval West.

        It is inherently unequal, oppressing women and non-believers. It is savage, specifying amputation and crucifixion. It *revived* the stoning of women, something that was no longer practiced by Jews in Muhammad’s day, and had *never* been practiced by Christians.

        The idea that the vicious diktats of a war lord, slaver, rapist, pedophile, and mass-murderer were “required” by God at some time is perverse beyond words.

        Worse, pious Muslims do not believe that these horrors have a time limit at all, but that they are the model for Muslims *for all time*.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 30, 2015 at 10:33 pm

          Don’t forget Islam appeared to the savage and barbaric tribes of the ArabianPeninsula who were cruel and bloodthirsty so much so that if their first born was a girl it would be buried alive in the desert sand.

          It was these people Muhammad came to educate and train and tame and it wasn’t an easy job.

          t was common for a new father to be outraged upon learning that his baby was a female. It was believed that girls ensured a bad omen and men thought that daughters would bring disgrace to the family.Because baby girls were thought to be evil, many of them were sold or buried alive.

          IWomen in pre Islamic Arabia
          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_pre-Islamic_Arabia

        • gravenimage says

          Dec 31, 2015 at 8:42 pm

          The killing of newborn baby girls is the *only* point where Islam was less savage than what proceeded it. Moreover, Christianity and Judaism *already* condemned these killings. Islam offered nothing new here.

          Girls and women are murdered for many reasons under Islam–for being raped, for being “disobedient”, for daring to fall in love.

          And women had overall *more* rights before the advent of Islam. Kadija was a wealthy and independent business woman before she ever employed Muhammed.

          And Muhammed did nothing to “tame” violent Bedouins–he just channeled their cruelty and savagery against non-believers in an orgy of conquest.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 31, 2015 at 9:00 pm

          Nonsense!! Some of the first universities if not the first were established by Islam and soap was also invented by a Muslim so watch that soap next time you have a shower it might explode!!!!!!

          There are many sciences Islam contributed to including algebra and medicine. To simply say they were barbarians defies every historian on earth if you’re willing to do that.

          Study all encyclopaedias and historupysnof how Islam brought much knowledge to the world medicine , astronomy and education.

          To infer that they were just barbarians is pure ignorance as Islam has contributed greatly to our modern society and to end that is to say all historians even non Muslim historians were stupid and ignorant which is absolute nonsense.

          Every unbiased mind accepts the massive contribution Islam made to Europe and the west.

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 1, 2016 at 10:29 pm

          Islam’s primary “contribution” to the West has always been slavery, death, and destruction. The recent cancellation of fireworks celebration in Brussels for New Year’s Eve due to concerns about Jihad terror is just the latest “contribution” Muslims have made.

          The rest is almost entirely Taqiyya.

          “The Myth of Islamic Science”

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/07/the-myth-of-islamic-science

          As for the invention of soap–firstly, if soap *had* been invented by a Muslim, that would not mean that ‘Islam invented soap’.

          But this is a moot point, in any case–the Babylonians were making soap as early as 2800 b.c.

          According the Pliny the Elder, the Phoenicians used goat’s tallow and wood ashes to create soap in 600 b.c. Soap was widely known in the Roman Empire

          The Celts made their soap from animal fat and plant ashes.

          Soap is mentioned in the Torah.

          *All* of this much predates Islam.

    • Richard says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 3:37 am

      “So how is my God different from Islam’s Allah?”

      Not as violent one hopes

      • worldcitizen1919 says

        Dec 26, 2015 at 5:54 am

        The only God I know is the God of love for all mankind. There is no other God.

        • Richard says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 11:18 am

          That’s better I suppose. But what about womankind?

          Still your belief system is the same as the Islamic belief system, completely divorced from logic, evidence or reality. This “god of love” you believe in controls everyone like puppets, you believe.

          You believe that the Jihadists are torturing, enslaving, raping and murdering non-Muslims (including Muslims of different shades, who they believe to be apostates), because your “god of love” has planned it so, whereas the evidence and facts show they are doing so because they are following the dictates of the Quran and Hadiths, which they have been brainwashed to believe.

          You believe that I am writing this reply to you because your “god of love” has commanded it so, whereas I am merely doing so to point out an obvious error in your logic. I have chosen to to do so and not your “god of love”. I will choose to reply to your reply or not, probably not, because I consider you to be a brainwashed idiot, as secure in your belief system as the Muslims and Jihadis are in theirs.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 12:00 pm

          I’m a Baha’i not a Muslim. As far as womankind goes would you believe they are superior to men in the Baha’i Writings?

          Rest ye assured! Ere long the days shall come when the men addressing the women, shall say: ‘Blessed are ye! Blessed are ye! Verily ye are worthy of every gift. Verily ye deserve to adorn your heads with the crown of everlasting glory, because in sciences and arts, in virtues and perfections ye shall become equal to man, and as regards tenderness of heart and the abundance of mercy and sympathy ye are superior’.

  17. Salome says

    Dec 26, 2015 at 3:06 am

    If you are quietly going about your lawful business and you hear ‘Allahu akbar’, there is a high probability that you are about to be blown up. That is pretty much all you need to know.

  18. Kasey says

    Dec 26, 2015 at 3:45 am

    When will these jihadids wake up to the fact that whether its their old moon god or a later version of Abraham’s Yehweh, it”s still all a load of bullcrap, invented by man to exercise control over the masses for an elite minority who seek privelege and power over their fellow himans.

  19. xxxChurch100 says

    Dec 26, 2015 at 5:51 am

    I thought they were saying ” Ali’s snack bar “

  20. sidney penny says

    Dec 26, 2015 at 7:07 am

    http://www.amazon.com/God-Is-Not-Great-Everything/dp/0446697966

    Well Robert , what do you say to Christopher Hitchens who in 2009 wrote the book.God Is Not Great.

    Which is a play on the words “Allahu akbar” ( God is Great)

    • David A says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 7:28 am

      One would think he would say that the writer did not understand the “comparative” meaning of the word.

    • duh_swami says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 9:00 am

      A olay on wieds,,,,,Everything about ‘Allah’ is a play on words…
      Allah does not exist in reality, so everything about it is word trickery…..That’s all Allah addicts have to justify their addiction……

  21. dyh_swami says

    Dec 26, 2015 at 7:17 am

    Allah can;t be ackbar because Allah does not exist in reality. Those who believe Allah is ;god’ are rolling around in delusional material…
    Everything we know about Allah was written by men who lied./ And not ordinary men…men with an agenda….Men who lusted after power, money and free sex,,,As such Allah is the imaginary gold of ‘Gimee, ..Gime this and gimee that……Never trust anyone who be3lieves Allah is God,,,

  22. duh_swami says

    Dec 26, 2015 at 7:55 am

    Another post sent to Allah for intense study,,,Naybe it will appear later…maybe not…
    While I wait…’God has no name… The word God is a title, not a name…
    When Moses asked the burning bush its name, it was because Moses had no idea what it was, and the bush avoided the issue with ‘I AM That AN’, also not a name….’God’ has no name which mkes Allah a fraud from the beginning…There is simply nothing ;akvar; about it…

    • Jim Peters says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 10:22 am

      All cultures have similar narratives: guy goes into wilderness, guy starves and dehydrates himself, guy hallucinates, guy gives story to ignorant people who buy it. We’ve had burning bushes, talking goats, monkeys, horses at the cardinal points, virgin births, old men with white beards on mountain tops,dreaming deities etc.
      It’s human nature to feel superior to someone else. “My God is greater” or in other words, “The creation of my imagination is greater than the creation of your imagination”, is just an extension of that.

      • cjk says

        Dec 26, 2015 at 11:32 am

        Whenever anyone equates all religions it is a sign of ignorance just as bad if not worse than when all cultures are equated.

      • Oppressaphobe says

        Dec 26, 2015 at 1:16 pm

        So you’re a cynic–who cares? That’s your deal.

        I look at it like this, if I got a choice between somebody who believes in God and somebody who discards all notions of god and all religion,

        I go stand with the religious guy because I figure he has a better heart.

        Just my philosophy.

      • Mo says

        Dec 26, 2015 at 2:56 pm

        @ Jim Peters

        “All cultures have similar narratives: ”

        Liar.

        If you’d read the Quran and the Bible (or any other religious text) you’d know that.

        Take your multi-culti nonsense elsewhere.

      • Lauren says

        Dec 26, 2015 at 4:54 pm

        To ‘ekbana’.

        There is no ‘Jehovah’ in the Bible. Wasn’t that name coined by what’s her name?

        (Yes, I know in Hebrew it is YHVH).

      • Champ ✞ says

        Dec 28, 2015 at 7:51 pm

        Jim Peters …

        “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God.'” — Psalm 14:1

        Question: “What does the Bible mean when it says “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God’”?”

        Answer: Both Psalm 14:1 and Psalm 53:1 read, “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God.’” Some take these verses to mean that atheists are stupid, i.e., lacking intelligence. However, that is not the only meaning of the Hebrew word translated “fool.” In this text, the Hebrew word is nabal, which often refers to an impious person who has no perception of ethical or religious truth. The meaning of the text is not “unintelligent people do not believe in God.” Rather, the meaning of the text is “sinful people do not believe in God.” In other words, it is a wicked thing to deny God, and a denial of God is often accompanied by a wicked lifestyle. The verse goes on to list some other characteristics of the irreligious: “They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; / there is no one who does good.” Psalm 14 is a study on the universal depravity of mankind.

        Many atheists are very intelligent. It is not intelligence, or a lack thereof, that leads a person to reject belief in God. It is a lack of righteousness that leads a person to reject belief in God. Many people do not object to the idea of a Creator, as long as that Creator minds His own business and leaves them alone. What people reject is the idea of a Creator who demands morality from His creation. Rather than struggle against a guilty conscience, some people reject the idea of God altogether. Psalm 14:1 calls this type of person a “fool.”

        More here: http://www.gotquestions.org/fool-heart-no-God.html

  23. Oppressaphobe says

    Dec 26, 2015 at 9:12 am

    The point is important because people need to understand that as Rush called it, Islam is a CONQUORING NATION.

    They have no intention of living peacefully beside jews, Christians, etc..NONE. All pretense aside, that is just them practicing their religion that says to deceive others. In other words, THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS IN ISLAM. Sound familiar to the left ideology, per olinsky?

    The so-called moderate muslims are simply waiting until they reach a critical mass. Haven’t enough countries fallen, Christians persecuted, Christmas been banned to understand this YET?

    I don’t know what it will take to wake people up anymore. Sure, muslims are fine IN SMALL NUMBERS!!!

    INDIVIDUALLY, MUSLIMS ARE FINE. But their culture is that of a PACK ANIMAL. Have you never seen the way they surround people on a street, or on a blog and just attack mercilessly?

    Look at the pics of Anthony White Jr. and you see that same HATEFULNESS that you see in muslims. The spirit, if he is not a convert to islam, IS THE SAME.

    Lakeisha Holloway, (who was reported to have shouted alihu Akbar but then that was hushed up) KILLED WHITES!!!

    She needs to be tried under hate crimes. Where she was and when she was there had everything to do with race, just as much as the kid that went and shot blacks in a black church.

    When a black dies in jail, it’s racism, but when a black kills and maimes whites, oh she was insane???

    SOMEBODY IS INSANE AND IT AIN’T HER!! IT’S YOU THAT ALLOW THIS THAT IS INSANE.

    What’s up with the hand gestures that Anthony white seems to have in those pictures? I seem to see this same hand gesture in other people of his hateful persuasion. Anybody know what this BODY LANGUAGE is all about? Won’t be surprised if it’s a code thing.

    I think we have to understand once and for all that Islam wants to stir up racial tension. They have targeted blacks for this very reason. Blacks cannot even see what they are doing to them when they prosylitize them to convert to Islam.

    That’s why I say to go and hug a black person, smile at them, let them know that you love and appreciate them. Reach out to the black community because Islam is reaching out to them. Shame on all the Christians churches that have ignored the blacks all this time.

    • RonaldB says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 11:51 am

      You must not be living in the same world as the rest of us. How can you say that Christian churches ignore blacks?

      • Oppressaphobe says

        Dec 26, 2015 at 12:37 pm

        When is that last time you heard a white church preacher talk about the need to reach out to the blacks? I never have heard it once!!

        Blacks have a very soulful nature and when ignored they can turn ugly(like anyone else)–don’t believe it ever should have been that way.

        Look at the gang members? They have talent that should be used in business. Where’s the outreach? Even from Obama?

    • RonaldB says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 12:48 pm

      http://nationalactionnetwork.net/press/a-historic-conference-of-national-black-churches-cnbc-convenes-in-florida-forming-the-largest-collective-of-black-ecumenical-leaders-in-the-nation-to-address-crucial-issues-in-the-african-american-com/

      “Shame on all the Christians churches that have ignored the blacks all this time.”

      I just can’t believe you aren’t aware of the large number of active, black churches in the country. Do you think that blacks would be better off if white churches simply tried to elbow aside the Black church structure, and co-opt all its members?

      If you ever visited a black church, you would be able to see the extensive outreach to gang members. For you, apparently, the big problem is not that there isn’t an outreach, but that the outreachers are black and not white.

      As I say, I simply can’t believe you aren’t aware of the extensive involvement of American blacks with Christian churches.

      • Oppressaphobe says

        Dec 26, 2015 at 1:09 pm

        Totally aware of blacks in black churches and some white churches but it is rare outside major cities.
        And whatever it is now, it needs to double and triple becomes that is what is called for. If you’re world in on fire grab a hose, don’t just keep preachin’ on and on.

      • Oppressaphobe says

        Dec 26, 2015 at 1:51 pm

        I would like to know if there is still a thriving prison outreach among churches. It seems to me that that has dropped off sharply since the say’80’s. Maybe its legal but I do know that there is so much muslim outreach in prison here and in Europe that the non-muslilms are threatened to the point that they have to convert for their safety. There is a huge underground system of thuggery whereby the unbelievers have to pay off the muslims.

        How do we explain that, if Christians are doing their job? I’m honestly curious.

    • Mo says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 2:58 pm

      @ Oppressaphobe

      “That’s why I say to go and hug a black person, smile at them, let them know that you love and appreciate them. Reach out to the black community because Islam is reaching out to them. Shame on all the Christians churches that have ignored the blacks all this time.”

      Oh, please. Looks like you’re on the wrong website. This is not Black Lives Matter.

      This site is about ISLAM. Address that. Take your racist nonsense elsewhere.

      • Oppressaphobe says

        Dec 26, 2015 at 9:06 pm

        Mo,

        Did you have a problem with those books where you connect the dots when you were little?

        Muslims have admitted their plan to divide America by stirring up racial tension.

        My point is they can’t do it if we don’t take the bait.

        But you just keep blowing pretty bubbles.

  24. anonamustafa says

    Dec 26, 2015 at 9:56 am

    So it’s almost the same as fugetaboutit?

    • Oppressaphobe says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 12:27 pm

      No! They will tell you that there are 1.7 billion muslims in the world so fugetaboutit!!

      But that means that there are over five billion NON-MUSLIMS.

      Now, consider the fact that muslims are so inbred that there intelligence is NOT THAT OF the more cultured people–scientific fact jack–inbreeding is not healthy.

      I know the little clock maker was suppose to be so smart…yeah, yeah, yeah,fugetaboutit !!
      That’s all hype from the media. Asians ARE truly smart because their minds are not polluted by a brainwashing religion.

      So, if 5 billion intelligent people cannot beat back 1.5 billions muslims, then we should REALLY FUGETABOUTIT!!

      But no, we should persevere and straighten up our lives where we’ve gotten fat and lazy.

      We have all of Russia, China, India, South America, Australia, some of Europe?, and places like Greenland, Iceland, etc…that are non muslim.

      But notice how they keep telling us we are OUT-NUMBERED??? It’s more of their twisted lies to control us psychologically. WE ARE NOT OUT NUMBERED AND IF WE STOP ABORTIONS WE WILL HAVE MANY MILLION MORE!!

      Also, if we INTERMARRY, we will have way less racial tensions. We could save the world by simply inter-marrying people of all faiths and cultures. ISN’T BETTER THAN SELF-ANIHILATION?
      These creeps will start ww3 for their twisted beliefs!!

      Notice how Obama tries to DIS Russia? Why? Because Russia won’t fall for the islamization crap, neither will China.

      So, everybody just go out and make a friend of somebody outside your clique. If 5 billion people make one friend each, we can stop a catastrophe before it happens.

      We’re not doomed until we think we’re doomed. And if you trust God then you don’t think we are doomed.

      • KnowThyEnemy says

        Dec 26, 2015 at 1:25 pm

        I second your suggestion to make friends. As for inter-marrying with people of different faith and cultures, it is not always a good idea. It can become very difficult to live as a couple if the customs and traditions are too different (Think of a meat-eating Christian getting married to a vegetarian Hindu. Ain’t gonna work!)

        It is practical (even preferable because of genes) to intermarry with someone of a different race and ethnicity provided that their faith and culture is very similar to your own! If otoh the faith and culture are not same/ similar, then someone would need to compromise. Good luck with that one in today’s day and age.

      • Joseph says

        Dec 27, 2015 at 9:35 am

        @ Oppressaphobe
        So, everybody just go out and make a friend of somebody outside your clique. If 5 billion people make one friend each, we can stop a catastrophe before it happens.
        ___________________

        I hope you are being sarcastic.

  25. Jim Peters says

    Dec 26, 2015 at 9:59 am

    A crew of illiterate morons shoots off a missile. Sort of like a keystone cops, or three stooges episode. I hope we take action against these dipshits. The vast majority will be the head-bowed, crying babies we have seen after capture, wanting to go home to their mommies. I can’t wait for the “varsity” team to come onto the playing field. I hope Barry and Mickey join the jihad when they leave office.

  26. Plutarchus says

    Dec 26, 2015 at 10:46 am

    THE PHRASE ” ALLAHU AKBAR” IS MORE THAN JUST A DECLARATION THAT ISLAM’S GOD ALLAH IS THE GREATEST GOD OF ALL

    When spoken by a believer he is telling Jews, Christians and others who believe in a Supreme Creator God that his understanding of this Being, which comes from the Koran (the highest and most perfect self revelation of God to man), is the greatest and most perfect that is humanely possible.

    Moreover, when shouting “Allahu akbar” the believer is telling infidels that his greater understanding of God makes him greater than them, and wins him the victory of salvation in the after life-of spiritual union or intimacy with God elevating his soul to the highest degree of perfection that’s humanely possible. While the spiritually inferior Christian, Jew and others pay the bitter price of eternal damnation for rejecting Islam and settling for an inferior, obsolete divine revelation.

    Allahu akbar! Allahu akbar! My knowledge of Allah makes me greater than any and all infidels in this life and the next. Allahu akbar! Allahu akbar! What theological BS.

    http://www.apollospeaks.com

  27. Richard says

    Dec 26, 2015 at 11:50 am

    IQ al Rassooli, the point is Akbar is an adjective, but not a simple adjective it is a comparative or superlative adjective.

    Examples of simple. comparative and superlative adjectives:

    small, smaller, smallest

    great, greater, greatest

    big, bigger, biggest

    Saying God is great or big is not a domineering statement, saying Allah is greater, greatest, bigger, or biggest is a statement of dominance – greater or bigger than something comparable – your god, some other god, belief.

    • IQ al Rassooli says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 11:57 am

      Richard

      I am dealing with the language of the Arabs pertaining to the time of Muhammad NOT as it is supposed to mean today

      Up to 50 years ago GAY meant Happy NOT Homosexual!

      AATHAM is GREATER

      AKBAR is BIGGER (or OLDER) and has nothing to do with greatness no matter how the Muslims want to CONTORT its meaning as I have demonstrated with my examples in ARABIC!

      IQ al Rassooli
      Kafir & Proud!

      • Plutarchus says

        Dec 26, 2015 at 1:48 pm

        If I say that Obama is Mr. BIG among US politicians-the BIGGEST in terms of the power he wields as President which is unequaled and unsurpassed-how does that differ from saying he’s the GREATEST political figure by virtue of his great power?

        That Allah is said to be “BIGGER” than other gods or “GREATER” because he’s the Supreme Being with the highest degree of power appears to be a difference without a distinction. Mere useless quibbling.

        • Custos Custodum says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 2:48 pm

          Wrong analogy for reasons of simple Arabic grammar which works differently than English grammar – see article. As Robert Spencer explains, the adjective form akbar is an elative form in Arabic. Thus, the phrase Allahu akbar can ONLY mean one of two things in English:

          EITHER:

          (1) “Allah is GREATER” (than a non-Muslim god) (similar to the comparative in English); OR

          (2) “Allah is GREATEST” (equivalent to the superlative in English), i.e. greater than ALL OTHER gods worshiped by others.

          The adjective form akbar CANNOT mean “great” without implying a comparison. The non-elative form (not implying any comparison) would be Allahu kabir. This is the non-supremacist phrase that Muslims NEVER scream as they murder, rape and mutilate.

          Muslims are emphatically NOT post-modern relativists.

        • Plutarchus says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 8:11 pm

          I stand corrected. But it doesn’t change my opinion about Arabic that it is the world’s most dangerous and lethal language. Whenever I hear it spoken it causes my head to spin and ringing in my ears. In fact, prolonged exposure to it makes my ears to bleed. If I were captured by Arab terrorists they could torture me to death just by speaking their language.

        • Plutarchus says

          Dec 26, 2015 at 8:13 pm

          CORRECTION:…. makes my ears bleed.

      • Richard says

        Dec 27, 2015 at 6:14 pm

        IQ al Rassooli, as Custos Custodum and Plutarchus have pointed out whether Akbar means, or meant, bigger or greater is of little importance. Both bigger and greater (or biggest and greatest) convey a meaning of superiority, making the cry “Allahu Akbar” a supremacist cry, rather than a simple declaration of praise to God, which is a common misconception of westerners, adopted and promoted by our western media.

        It is in fact declaring the superiority of a specific god, “Allah”, over other gods (initially of Mecca).

        Reading the Quran one can easily see that this “Allah”, invented in the Quran, is none other than Muhammad himself.

        In the camel urine post, Robert Spencer points out that the Quran repeatedly exhorts Muslims to obey Muhammad (verses 3:32; 3:132; 4:13; 4:59; 4:69; 4:80; 5:92; 8:1; 8:20; 8:46; 9:71; 24:47; 24:51; 24:52; 24:54; 24:56; 33:33; 47:33; 49:14; 58:13; and 64:12). That is 21 verses.

        What is quite extraordinary is that Allah NEVER in the Quran tells believers to obey him without ALSO telling them, in the same breath (sentence) to obey Muhammad.

        However in one verse (24:56), he forgets, (that is Muhammad forgets) to tell the believers to obey “Allah” and merely tells them to obey Muhammad in order to receive “mercy” from “Allah”.

        In verse 8.1 he tells Muslims, the spoils of war are for Allah and Muhammad and they should obey Muhammad (in other words not dispute that the spoils of war are for Allah/Muhammad). If this does not reveal that Muhammad is Allah and vice-versa then the person reading it is either very gullible or very stupid.

        Why does the supposed creator of the universe need the spoils of war (specifically war carried out by Muhammad and his followers)?

        Apparently this “Allah”, (the supposed creator of the Universe) is as covetous and desirous of sex slaves and wealth captured by the Muslims, fron non-Muslims, as the Muslims themselves. And he couldn’t have them without their efforts, (apparently because they belong to the unbelievers and hence beyond the power of Allah- that is Muhammad).

        How idiotic and gullible can people get.

        • IQ al Rassooli says

          Dec 28, 2015 at 1:22 am

          Richard

          On the contrary, the meaning of WORDS is extremely important in the context of the time they were used

          At the time of Muhammad 570 to 632 Allahu Akbar was used by the PAGAN Arabs to describe the SIZE of the Black Stone where Allah ‘resided’ in comparison to the size of stones denoting the other 360 deities in the Kaaba.

          It had NOTHING to do with ‘greater’ than the God of the Christians or Jews until after Muhammad forced the pagan Arabs into submitting to his version of Islam

          Allahu Akbar became the TERROR Battle Cry verse

          It is also obvious to any intelligent person having studied Muhammad’s Quran & Sunna that Allah the pagan god of Arabia that Muhammad attempts to metamorphose into the God of the Bible is most assuredly NOT the same as the God of Jesus Moses & Abraham hence one must come to the ONLY correct conclusion:

          Muhammad, Allah & Gabriel are one and the SAME: Muhammad the ventriloquist and that is WHY his Quran is the most despicable, deadly, intolerant, racist, hatemongering, warmongering, Ungodly & Unholy scripture ever produced by any other perverted mind

          The fact that 1.5 billion indoctrinated and unlearned creatures believe his drivel does not change the reality that it is Unholy

          IQ al Rassooli
          Kafir & Proud

        • KnowThyEnemy says

          Dec 28, 2015 at 1:56 am

          @Richard

          Those are very interesting observations in your post and your unmasking of “Allah” is succinct and superb!

      • Richard says

        Dec 28, 2015 at 7:35 pm

        IQ al Rassooli,

        I agree with what you say. Your knowledge of Arabic is obviously more than mine. The only Arabic I know is through Google translate. whereas you seem to be an Arabic speaker.

        We are both saying the same thing about the eventual evolution of Allahu Akbar and the Allah and Gabriel invented by ventriloquist Muhammad in his Quran.

        Besides being intolerant, racist, hate-mongering and warmongering, the Quran is an illogical and absurd document full of errors and inconsistencies that couldn’t possibly stand up to critical examination. It fails in its primary claim that it is the direct words and commandments of the alleged creator of the Universe, horrifically on several counts.

        The only way the ideology could possibly survive is by outlawing its criticism, commanded in the Quran and adopted by Muslim countries and by our western media, along with massive and constant indoctrination of children and the uneducated, which Muslims have plenty of.

        It crumbles in the cold light of truth, which our western media refuses to shine on it. There is constant addition to its ranks through its massive indoctrination machine, the Islamic religious schools, mosques and of course indoctrinated Muslim parents.

        So it follows the best way to get rid of this ideology is to keep revealing the truth about it and (hopefully at some stage) ban the indoctrination of children by closing down the Islamic religious schools and mosques.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 28, 2015 at 8:27 pm

          There is no need to get rid of the Quran as it was never meant for this age and that is well understood by God Who sent Muhammad and revealed it but of course not accepted by Muslims.

          Since the the Quran, God has sent anothe Manifestation called Baha’u’llah Who has annulled the Quran and brought a new Book for this age called the Most Holy Book.

          In it Holy War, priesthood and things like that have been abolished. And just like Christianity spread all over the world so too will the new Faith as its teachings are for our age.

          God sends a Messengerr for each ages needs. At one time it was the Buddha at another Krishna and Jesus and Muhammad and now it is Banaullah and the age of the oneness of humanity.

          Of course Muslims don’t accept this abolishment of the Quran just as Jews do not accept Christ or Christians accept the Quran so we have so many Faiths and each one seeks in its own way to be ‘the religion that dominates’ yet God only reveals one Faith for each season in mankind.

          Now humanity is ready for world unity & as it has technologically evolved into a neighbourhood it needs teachings and laws to enable the diverse races , nations and cultures to live in peace without conflict.

          The Quran has been abrogated and that is why Islam is descending into chaos. There is nothing that can save Islam as it has been superseded whether it likes it or not and in time it will die down and fade away except for its humanitarian principles.

          It didn’t matter what Christians thought about Muhammad. When it was His time Islam became the religion of the day. Now if you haven’t noticed, since the appearance of Baha’u’llah, the Ottoman Empire has fallen and Israel and Jerusalem has been returned to the Jews. Islam’s loss of the Ottoman Empire was a severe loss.

          Islam spiritually is not for this age and we can see this clearly by Muslim’s behaviour.

          Terrorism and the inability of Islam to control it is showing just how spiritually bankrupt Islam has become. Shariah law will never be adopted. Even Muslim countries oppose it.

          The west, namely America not Islam will lead the world spiritually.

          It says in Islam that in the last days the sun shall rise from the west meaning spiritual truth and illumination will come from the west not Islam anymore.

          All this is playing out before our very eyes – the death throes of Islam.

          At the time Arabia was in need of a strong ruler to advance and so Muhammad was sent but that time is past and Islam must and will be forced to step aside whether it likes it or not for this new day of human rights and justice.

        • gravenimage says

          Dec 31, 2015 at 8:48 pm

          worldcitizen1919 seems to be under the impression that Islam outstripped Christianity with the appearance of the foul “Prophet”. This is not the case.

          Today there are an estimated 2.2 billion Christians, making it the world’s largest faith by a considerable margin.

          But this is not just about numbers–the idea that the savagery of Muhammed somehow morally trumped the loving message of Jesus is grotesque.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 31, 2015 at 8:51 pm

          Happy New Year. Have a good 016

          Blaming Muhammad and the Quran for the actions of Muslims is like blaming Christ and the Bible for the Inquisition and crusades and Hiroshima.

          People can kill in whoever’s name they want don’t mean we blame Christ or Muhammad for it.

          Jihad was only a law of the Quran for the time Muslims were attacked.

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 1, 2016 at 10:33 pm

          This is quite false. Muslims waging violent Jihad and oppressing Infidels are acting *exactly* on the tenets of the Qur’an and the model of the vicious “Prophet”.

          I hope you have a good 2016 as well, and find the moral decency to stop whitewashing savagery. My hopes are not particularly high in this regard, though.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 1, 2016 at 11:30 pm

          The terrorists who claim to be true Muslims are going against the explicit laws of the Quran and Muhammad which say only to attack in self defense.

          I agree the Umayyaids and Abbasids ruled by the sword but that they were not following the laws and instructions of the Quran and Muhammad in doing so.

          Jihah is only supported by the Quran if attacked but that doesn’t mean Muslims misused that law to conquer such as the Umayyads did.

          Terrorists out of hate use those verses but wrongfully.

          It is like where Christ said ‘I come not to bring peace but a sword’. We can maintain that Chrust, by those words encouraged the Inquisition and crusades. The same can be said just as easily if the very violent passages of the Bible. Both Islan and Christianity have a bloodstained history and both their books contain violent passages.

          Peace and unity between Muslims and Christians involves BOTH sides making an effort not just condemning one another.

          Both Books contain violent passages and both religions have been fighting one another endlessly. Both sides say they are acting in self defense.

          Jihad and war are NOT eternal laws of the Bible and Quran but were only revealed for that time for a specific situation yet both sides continue that war today.

          A reinterpretation is required to put to rest this misunderstanding so we can have peace in the world.

      • Richard says

        Dec 28, 2015 at 11:38 pm

        worldcitizen1919 “God has sent anothe Manifestation called Baha’ullah Who has annulled the Quran and brought a new Book for this age called the Most Holy Book.”

        worldcitizen1919, your Baha’u’llah who has “annulled” the Quran, also said that the Quran is a most holy book and has been misinterpreted (twisted) by Muslims. This is clearly wrong as the Quran is full of commandments for violence and hate against unbelievers, violence and discrimination against women. You can check these facts for yourself, instead of blindly believing in Baha’ullah.

        If he has lied (or is genuinely mistaken) here, he is not a person to be trusted in anything else.

        There maybe some sensible things also he may have said, but I don’t need some bloody Baha’ullah to tell me that and claim he is sending this from god. We have enough of that thank you.

        “God sends a Messengerr for each ages needs.” – I don’t believe he does, but if so , Baha’ullah is already very much out of date. In fact with our exponential rate of increase in knowledge, god needs to send a “messenger” every six months or so now, preferably by email.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 29, 2015 at 12:25 am

          Thanks for your reply.

          As I stated, the Quran is not for this age and has been annulled and the problems continue because Muslims do not accept this and are trying to force what was revealed for 1300 years ago onto the current age which will never happen.

          There will never be a shariah world order ever try as they may.

          Religious hatred created by the Umayyads towards the Christians and Jews Baha’u’llah has come to repair and has no desire except we live in peace and all men be as brothers.

          His is good intention and goodwill towards all.

        • IQ al Rassooli says

          Dec 29, 2015 at 3:02 am

          worldcitizen

          I have been reading all your comments and the replies

          It is OBVIOUS that you are a very IRRATIONAL person like ALL 1.5 billion followers of Muhammad when addressing the two subjects of Belief & or Politics

          Although almost every reader who has answered your utterly Stupid and Indefensible replies with incredible degrees of KNOWLEDGE of Muhammad, his Quran & Hadiths dealing especially with dogma of ABROGATION (NASKH) you are stuck with the mind set of a RETARD that cannot ever be penetrated with logic.

          No one should answer any of further comments of yours because it is a certain waste of time

          Let me conclude with the following IRREFUTABLE characteristics (based entirely on your Islamic scripture) that Muhammad, his Sunna, Sharia and every single one of his followers are: Hatemongering, Duplicitous, Warmongering, Misogynist, Racist, Disloyal, Hypocritical, Cowardly, Intolerant, Merciless, Deceiving, Vile, without an iota of redeeming characteristics and hence totally Ungodly

          IQ al Rassooli
          Kafir & Proud!

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 30, 2015 at 11:03 pm

          Muslims all will one day change like King Ashok who accepted the Buddha and became a benevolent Buddhist from a cruel King.

        • gravenimage says

          Dec 31, 2015 at 8:52 pm

          Notice how inconsistent this apologist is–first saying that the Qur’an is beautiful and moral and then that the Qur’an was meant for a more brutal age than our own and that its strictures no longer hold.

          And given his timeline, that would mean that the civilized ethos of the Enlightenment was negated by the vicious tenets of Islam. Bizarre all around.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 31, 2015 at 11:46 pm

          Let’s take the death penalty. Let’s take serial,killers and rapists.

          Today we have prisons and courts of law and are able to contain them.

          If you are aware of the age Muhammad appeared there were no prisons, courts, police or constitution or judges etc so repeat offenders such as serial rapists and killers would you just let them continue to repeat offend?

          What would YOU have done? Locked them up in your a non existent jail?? Or perhaps have the non existent police arrest them with non existent handcuffs??

          Muhammad’s laws however harsh were a blessing for the INNOCENT. Those who stood to be raped or massacred and their children sold into slavery.

          That was the greatest mercy to the innocent people then that tyrants and those destroying lives of innocent people were fought and if necessary killed.

          1400 years ago and now the needs and circumstances are entirely different.

          Yet some foolish Muslims want to apply those laws to today which would be a DEADLY POISON for our age.

          But I also believe the Bible is the Word of God and beautiful despite some things unacceptable to our times like this….

          God promises to destroy the infants of Samaria and rip open the stomachs of pregnant women.

          The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open. (Hosea 13:16)

          God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah to be ripped open.

          At that time Menahem, starting out from Tirzah, attacked Tiphsah and everyone in the city and its vicinity, because they refused to open their gates. He sacked Tiphsah and ripped open all the pregnant women. (2 Kings 15:16)

          God commands the killing of infants and nursing babies.

          Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey. (1 Samuel 15:3)

          God repays your enemies by destroying their babies.

          Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us. He who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks. (Psalms 137:8-9)

          Here we see passages in the Bible far worse than anything encountered in the Quran but Chrstianity and Judaism has had about 500-1,000 years more to over come these violent verses and stop using them. Some Muslims still want to enforce laws meant for 1400 years ago but tyat doesn’t mean the Quran is not from God or evil just like the violent verses in the Bible do not make it an evil Book.

          But I love the Bible as I do the Quran but perspective and relativity is required to appreciate them not across the board generalisation.

          Yes we have no Christian terrorists not now but the west went through as Christians a very bloody history with its holy wars and inquisition and burnings at the stake and beheadings and we moved on. Christians have had about 600 years more than Islam (622AD) to overcome its violent streak and now it’s Muskims turn to leave the past behind and that is what Jihad Watch is trying to do. To get Muslims to drop the violent verses from the Quran to the past where they belong.

          Thank you and Happy New Year

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 1, 2016 at 10:39 pm

          Muhammad’s laws however harsh were a blessing for the INNOCENT. Those who stood to be raped or massacred and their children sold into slavery.
          ……………………..

          This is only the case if–like pious Muslims–you consider no one but pious Muslims to be “innocent”.

          The fact is that Muhammad *himself* enslaved, raped, and massacred his victims–as is “lovingly” chronicled in the Qur’an, Hadith, and Sira.

          And the idea–one you have flogged repeatedly–that no laws existed prior to the arrival of the “Prophet” and his imposition of brutal Shari’ah could not be more false.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 1, 2016 at 11:33 pm

          At the time it was the classic good versus evil. Sincere Chrisitians and Muslims and Jews all united.

          The only ones that were fought were the attackers and oppressors whether they were idolaters or Christians and Jews who sided with them. But those who did not attack the innocent were not attacked.

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 2, 2016 at 7:24 pm

          worldcitizen1919 wrote:

          At the time it was the classic good versus evil. Sincere Chrisitians and Muslims and Jews all united.
          ………………………………..

          “All united”–this is how “worldcitizen1919” characterizes Jews and “Chrisitians” (sic) forced to convert to Islam or living under humiliating dhimmitude.

          He considers failing to submit to this vicious warlord–exactly what *we* are doing here–to be “evil”, and considers rape, slavery, piracy, and mass-murder to be “good” so long as it was done by or in the name of the vicious “Prophet”.

          More:

          The only ones that were fought were the attackers and oppressors whether they were idolaters or Christians and Jews who sided with them. But those who did not attack the innocent were not attacked.
          ………………………………..

          Any one who did not passively submit to the horrors of Shari’ah law are considered “attackers and oppressors” by this apologist.

          You are only “innocent” if you do nothing to resist being raped, enslaved, or mass-murdered.

          Notice that the *only* Infidels this poster believes should be safe from Muslim savagery are Baha’i, since their creed supposedly “abrogates” Islam. All the rest of us are fair game.

          Unless any reply from this quarter proves particularly heinous, there is little reason to comment further on this thread. I believe this apologist for savagery has made his appalling stance abundantly clear at this point.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 3, 2016 at 1:26 am

          Baha’is safe from Muslim savagery? Who gives a dan anyone? Are we human to anyone in the world at all? Who speaks up for the largest persecuted minority in Iran?! Not a whisper.

          Baha’is are amongst the most persecuted minority in the world for 170 years now.

          When is the west going to stand up for justice and demand our freedom? Where is he to be found to rescue us from our oppressors?

          How many resolutions have been tabled at the UN fully documenting the persecution of the Baha’is yet the world does nothing???

          Allowing them to persecute us for 170 years has emboldened them and made them think that if they can do it to us then they can now go and do it to you in the west because you’re scared of a good fight and scared of dying for freedom and won’t fight for it except using robots or drones.

          So the great America is so intimidated by radical Islam it cowers and allows those who stand up for every American freedom and human right to be exterminated??

          You make a deal with Iran but turn a blind eye that it is persecuting people who love America more than Americans and even have a prayer revealed for America calling it a ‘just government’.

          What ISIS did to the Iraqis in a few years is what they have been doing to the Baha’is for 170 years yet who speaks up?

          JW speaks up against Jihadists but what about us? Are we lumped in with the terrorist too.

          I suppose only terrorists matter and good people unless they’re Americans don’t mean much.

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 4, 2016 at 9:28 pm

          Well, this reply should not surprise. “worldcitizen1919” wrote:

          Baha’is safe from Muslim savagery? Who gives a dan (sic) anyone? Are we human to anyone in the world at all? Who speaks up for the largest persecuted minority in Iran?! Not a whisper.
          …………………………………

          Where to start? This is especially rich considering this apologist for savagery has just told us that anyone resisting the barbarism of Muhammed *deserved it*.

          I never said Baha’i *were* safe from Muslim savagery–I and many others here have in fact noted many times here that non-violent Baha’i are oppressed in Iran–just that “worldcitizen1919″ believes that they are the only ones who *should* be safe from it.

          And in line with that, there are actually slightly more persecuted Christians in Iran than there are Baha’i. But we know this apologist cares little for them, or other persecuted religious minorities such as Jews and Zoroastrians there.

          More:

          When is the west going to stand up for justice and demand our freedom? Where is he to be found to rescue us from our oppressors?
          …………………………………

          Unbelievable–being able to practice their faith freely in the West apparently is not enough.”worldcitizen1919” demands we spend our blood and treasure to rescue them from Islam.

          The *same* Islam, you will note, that they regularly engage in apologia for here in the West. Perverse does not begin to cover it.

          More:

          Allowing them to persecute us for 170 years has emboldened them and made them think that if they can do it to us then they can now go and do it to you in the west because you’re scared of a good fight and scared of dying for freedom and won’t fight for it except using robots or drones.

          So the great America is so intimidated by radical Islam it cowers and allows those who stand up for every American freedom and human right to be exterminated??
          …………………………………

          Not only is this apologist demanding that we die for his freedom, but he is calling us cowards if we do not.

          But here is the *real* kicker–“worldcitizen1919” has, on this very thread, told us that Muslims wage violent Jihad against us because we are “occupying” their countries.
          ‘
          If we were to invade Iran in order to rescue Baha’i, this very poster would be telling us that we deserved any Jihad terror blamed on such an occupation.

          Now *that* is perverse.

          Yet more:

          You make a deal with Iran but turn a blind eye that it is persecuting people who love America more than Americans and even have a prayer revealed for America calling it a ‘just government’.
          …………………………………

          Good God. There are dozens of stories here at Jihad Watch criticizing Obama’s dealing with Iran. Why is he lambasting *us* for this policy, which no one here supports?

          And the idea that this poster “loves America more than Americans” is an odd one, since he is intent on spreading Islam here.

          More:

          What ISIS did to the Iraqis in a few years is what they have been doing to the Baha’is for 170 years yet who speaks up?
          …………………………………

          Actually, we at Jihad Watch have spoken up for Baha’i and the other victims of Jihad here many times. I have done so many times myself.

          More:

          JW speaks up against Jihadists but what about us? Are we lumped in with the terrorist too.
          …………………………………

          Not really. Your faith is non-violent, which means that it has–thankfully–jettisoned the worst of Islam.

          But we have said–quite truthfully–that you and your coreligionists whitewash Islam, and pretend that Islam itself is non-violent.

          This does nothing to safeguard *any* victims of Islam, Baha’i or otherwise.

          More:

          I suppose only terrorists matter and good people unless they’re Americans don’t mean much.
          …………………………………

          This is a ludicrous charge. Just since Christmas, Jihad Watch has run articles on victims of Jihad in Britain, Germany, France, Russia, Kenya, Belgium, Nigeria, Israel, sex slaves in the Islamic State, Christians in the Islamic State, Christians in Egypt, Hindus in Pakistan, Christians in Bangladesh, Ahmadis in Bangladesh, Christians in Bethlehem, Hindus in India, Christians in Sudan, and just a couple of articles on victims of Jihad in the US.

          And while there are perhaps more stories about Christian victims during this period as Muslims target Christians over Christmas, this sample is generally very indicative of how global Jihad Watch’s focus is–the idea that Robert Spencer only cares about Americans in ludicrous.

          Meanwhile, no doubt, this poster will go on spewing apologia for Islam, all while whining that the Anti-Jihadists here at Jihad Watch are not doing enough to enable his whitewash. *Ugh*.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 5, 2016 at 12:11 am

          I fully agree with everyone here as to atrocities committed by Muslims.

          All I’ve been saying is that it’s not the fault of the Quran and Muhammad.

          I’m a Baha’i . All humanity matter not just Baha’is. We are concerned about all persecuted minorities in Iran if you’ve ever read any Baha’i communications.

          We don’t expect anyone to come and ‘rescue us’. We want all Iranians to be free.

          We want a better world for everyone that’s all.

  28. Oppressaphobe says

    Dec 26, 2015 at 12:53 pm

    Wow,
    There are an overwhelming number of twisters here today.

    Let me explain one more time:

    There is no reformation in Islam that equates to the “reformation” of the the jews after Jesus Christ.

    Mohammed endorses sharia but Christ stood out from the adherents of “the law.”

    He promoted forgiveness, love, not following traditions of men, etc…

    Just the fact that muslims are REQUIRED BY THEIR RELIGION TO:

    WEAR CERTIAN CLOTHING

    TO PRAY IN A CERTAIN WAY, AT A CERTAIN TIME, TO A CERTAIN CITY, ETC..

    WOMAN AND MEN ARE UNNATURALLY SERPERATED

    FOOD LAWS ARE REQUIRED

    PENALTIES FROM OTHER MUSLIMS FROM THOSE WHO DO NOT FOLLOW THEIR FAITH

    MUSLIM FAITH IS GIVEN TO THE INCUBATION OF TERRORISTS GROUPS

    I could go on and on but my point is that ISLAM HAS NOTHING OVER CHRISTIANITY.

    Christians are not perfect–and you know what? They don’t claim to be. THEY CLAIM TO BE FORGIVEN IF THEY REPENT IN THEIR HEARTS.

    They don’t need a man or an imam or anyone else to rule over them. It’s a MUCH MORE MATURE RELIGION.

    Maybe you think your religion is beautiful and historical and all that and I can respect that but the modern day adherence to Islam is very problematic for humanity.

  29. Oppressaphobe says

    Dec 26, 2015 at 1:04 pm

    AND CHRISTIANITY IS VOLUNTARY!!!

    Islam is a LAW- not a religion. It is a political system masquerading as a religion.

    That’s how it gets all the special privileges in America.

    See how that works?

    Muslims are sneaky people, taken right from the Koran.

  30. Oppressaphobe says

    Dec 26, 2015 at 1:34 pm

    BTW, I love these wrong-headed comparisons that muslims make these days like one we heard here today:
    Well the Christians burned witches in Salem so….yeah?

    We all know that any people can become extreme under certain conditions but if they exported their religion to another country, insisted on that country following their twisted beliefs, then you’d have a comparison. Don’t compare apples and oranges. The muslims are becoming VERY BRAZEN in making all these wild comparisons today. I noticed that.

    Like if there is a terrorists attack they say, Oh well that’s only 14 and whites have killed many more.

    What???

    That’s like if my kid steals a dollar, then thinks its okay because his brother stoled 10 dollars!!

    So like one crime doesn’t justify another, okay kiddies?

    I find Muslims to be very immature people because of their religion, their in breeding, their culture that is very rude and disrespectful of others.

    They are not very high on Maslov’s pyramid.

  31. Custos Custodum says

    Dec 26, 2015 at 2:30 pm

    Pushing Islamic and Leftist talking points – however mendacious and however discredited – has for many years been the primary raison d’être of establishment media and their fiction writers.

    What happened is that starting in the 1980s, the print media started losing advertising revenue to television and direct mail. The advent of the Internet further undercut both print and TV advertising and led to a scramble to find other sources of support.

    Against this background, print and electronic media drastically consolidated worldwide. Newspapers throughout the U.S. and are now run by 2-3 groups, each with wide-ranging holdings through different media.

    Faced with declining revenues and driven on by their worship of pure power, people in the remaining print and broadcast media groups and their slavering fiction writers became more and more blatant as they shifted back to the ancient, traditional business model for any media operations: AS PROPAGANDA WHORES FOR THE POWERS THAT BE.

    Look at the two most “influential” newspapers in the U.S.: the New York Times is de facto owned and controlled by Mexican oligarch Carlos Slim through an arrangement that corporate lawyers have dressed up as a loan. Slim’s machinations within a deeply corrupt system are a key reason that Mexico is a hell-hole and millions of its citizens prefer life as illegals in El Norte. (BTW this corrupt, life-destroying crony system is what powerful groups WANT for the U.S.)

    Meanwhile, the Wall Street Journal is now part of the Murdoch empire and rigidly toes the party line on key issues such as extra-legal mass immigration to replace the people of the U.S. and subvert the Constitutional order. Officially, Saudi “prince” Alwaleed bin Talal has withdrawn as part owner, but Murdoch’s broad cooperation with Saudi and Gulf interests continues.

    The shift back to journalistic prostitution fed and and fed the decades-old cult of power worship and “narrative” journalism (pioneered by Joseph Goebbels who called it “Big Lie”) that has been allowed and encouraged to spread through so-called “journalism schools” in the U.S. and elsewhere (e.g. BBC).

    • Oppressaphobe says

      Dec 26, 2015 at 9:30 pm

      You are a very good writer and extremely knowledgable–I’d guess you have a doctorate-at least a masters degree.

      Thanks for your input.

  32. Abu Al-Dente says

    Dec 26, 2015 at 3:40 pm

    Surely Hitler took some cues when he devised his catchphrase for everyone to holler when wishing for victory.
    Sieg Heil!
    Islam has theirs for much, much longer than that.

  33. Dave J says

    Dec 26, 2015 at 3:56 pm

    “Allahu Akbar” is not just saying our God is greatest, it is saying our law, ideology, culture and government is greater. it is not a comparison of Gods and is likely to be said as they blow up you and any aspect of your “lesser” civilization.

    Jihad and immigration are not optional in the Muslim world, they are duties and so-called moderates are actually just slackers. Well, they are doing one Islamic thing – trying to deceive you.

  34. Lee Hicks says

    Dec 26, 2015 at 7:18 pm

    Interesting, Allahu akbar doesn’t mean “God is great”.
    It means “Allah is greater”, which makes perfect sense.

    The first and most often endorsed meaning opens the way for the deception that Allah and the one true God of creation are just two names for the same person.

    In reality, the phrase correctly shows that Allah is not the God of Abraham, and that Muslims believe Allah to be greater than the real God.

    They endorse and promote the lie that Satan created in his own heart, that he was greater than God Himself.

    So, when you hear that the phrase simply means “God is great”, you now know that to be utter falsehood. They are saying that their god, Allah, is greater than any others, including the God of the Christians and Jews.

    Don’t be deceived by the ecumenical nonsense out there, or the statements from Catholic leadership that we should push for some common ground with Islam.

    The two spiritual worlds are universes apart.

  35. Kepha says

    Dec 26, 2015 at 8:36 pm

    For a “Christian terrorist” war cry:

    Let God arise and all his enemies be scattered.

    It’s from Psalm 68 (Protestant numbering) and was used by Cromwell’s Ironsides. The Scots Covenanters has “Let King Jesus reign and all his enemies be scattered.” Uncle Kepha prefers the Ironsides’ call, if only because it’s from the pages of Scripture.

    This being said, we’re also the religion that commands seeking peace with all men as much as it is up to us. And, frankly, if God is arising and changing Muslim hearts to follow the Christ of the Old and New Testaments, that’ the real win; not when heads get chopped off.

  36. tulekah says

    Dec 27, 2015 at 12:40 am

    just a comment on the idea that Mohammad said only to fight in self defense…curious how islam self defended itself all the way from Arabia to Spain and Vienna…

    • worldcitizen1919 says

      Dec 27, 2015 at 8:08 pm

      What Muhammad said to do and what Muslims did after He passed away are two different things.

      All along I’m claiming that it is Muslims who are to blame for disobedience to their Quran knowingly twisting its words to suit their lust for conquering. The caliphs were the illegitimate successors of Islam seizing power when it was Ali who Muhammad wanted installed but because it was not written in ink at His death Ali was not installed and the trouble began from their.

      The illegitimate successors ruled and conquered against many of the laws of the Quran and did not obey the law not to attack unless attacked and of course advanced Islam, an illegitimate Islam everywhere

      Nowhere in the Quran are the caliphs appointed as successors.

      Sunni Islam therefore is not recognised by Baha’is as Islam proper.

      Chapter 13 Revelation speaks about the Beast with the number 666 refers to the zummayad Dynasty of that time 666 AD and describes the evil of the Sunni Caliphate.

      That is the Baha’i interpretation of the beast with the number 666 and it fits the description and times as well as events perfectly. They were never the true representatives of Islam as today they are not either.

      • worldcitizen1919 says

        Dec 27, 2015 at 8:10 pm

        Correction Umayyad Dynasty.

      • IQ al Rassooli says

        Dec 28, 2015 at 1:34 am

        worldcitizen

        You are trying to defend the INDEFENSIBLE and you will never succeed because the Quran that is available is accepted by 99.98% of Muslims as TRUE hence it is deceiving that you imply that Muhammad’s followers PERVERTED it!

        It is ironic that you (a Bahai) should do so since you are safe ONLY in Israel!

        Since it is the TRUE Quran then it is impossible for you or any other human being to find a SINGLE operative verse in it that shows any Compassion & Mercy towards Infidels/ Kuffar, Unbelievers/ Kafiroon who constitute 80% of current humanity that is NOT Muslim

        All Muslim are ENEMIES of ALL human beings who are NOT Muslims as well as being enemies of different sects of Islam. That is WHY 100% of all acts of terror against Infidels/ Kuffar are committed ONLY by Muslims

        There is absolutely nothing you can add or subtract from what I have just stated

        IQ al Rassooli
        Kafir & Proud!

        • Champ says

          Dec 28, 2015 at 1:38 am

          Bravo, IQ!!!

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 28, 2015 at 2:06 am

          We all die one day. It’s what we live for that counts and how we use the life given us.

          Though Muslims kill and persecute us and have for over 170 years and it’s all documented at the UN and repeated calls for our freedom is made by western nations to cease trying to exterminate us as a Faith, we believe that is due to their ignorance and no blame is upon the Holy Quran or Prophet Muhammad.

          If they really understood their Quran they would not treat us like they have done.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 28, 2015 at 2:00 am

          Im backing up Baha’u’llah Who says they have perverted the meaning not effaced actual pages. Muslims do not possess the correct interpretation of the Quran. That’s why they act as they do.

          “Nay, rather, by corruption of the text is meant that in which all Muslim divines are engaged today, that “is the interpretation of God’s holy Book in accordance with their idle imaginings and vain desires.”

          “Likewise, it is clear, how in this day, the people of the Qur’án have perverted the text of God’s holy Book, concerning the signs of the expected Manifestation, and interpreted it according to their inclination and desires.”

          Excerpt From: Bahá’u’lláh. “The Book of Certitude”

        • KnowThyEnemy says

          Dec 28, 2015 at 2:49 am

          worldcitzen1919 says “We all die one day. It’s what we live for that counts and how we use the life given us. Though Muslims kill and persecute us and have for over 170 years……. we believe that is due to their ignorance and no blame is upon the Holy Quran or Prophet Muhammad.”

          So that explains why you are wasting your life spamming our site instead of educating the Muslims about the ‘correct’ interpretation of Islam. The Muslims RESPECT Quran and Muhammad, hence they are not the primary priority for you! That people should respect Quran and Muhammad is more important to you than Muslims wreaking havoc, misinterpreting Quran and sunna, and making your (Bahai’s) life miserable. Islam and Mu’s image must not get tarnished! No one must say anything negative about Quran and Mu, no matter what!

          The JW’ers otoh blame Quran and sunnah, so your consider spamming the comments section here to be your top priority in life!

          I had no clue that Bahai’s were this screwed up! Thanks for opening my eyes, though I hope you are an exception and not the rule among Bahai’s!

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 28, 2015 at 3:49 am

          There is so much misunderstanding in the west about Islam that needs to be dispelled or a war will break out worse than the last. The Chrustian west are the more reasonable of the two who might not be goaded into conflict if they can understand that it’s only the terrorists and not to take it out on all of Islam.

          The west needs to be very careful and wise because these crazies don’t care at all about human life so we want Islam on our side not against us and to insult and defame their religion is pushing them to join extremism and that, if it happens is not in our interests.

          Western historians have for many centuries distorted the facts to suit their religious and ancestral prejudices.

          This has led to conflict and prejudice between the west and Muslims and what everyone wants is peace not more conflicts and war.

          Breaking down barriers to unity and peace and removing hatreds and prejudices is what Baha’is do. We mix with all groups and religions including Muslims.

          I like the challenge here because I believe I can throw a lot of light on your misunderstandings of Islam. The terrorists are evil. They must be destroyed by armies and forces. But are we all westerner’s going to hate on all 1.6 billion Muslims for the crimes of the terrorists?

          We want Islam to fight terrorism not join it.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 28, 2015 at 4:00 am

          Just one other thing. If I’m in Iran and pray I’m evil and if I give my views on JW I’m spamming so I have no freedom of speech in both Iran and JW??

          Freedom of speech is central to western ideology and I would hope that you’re not telling me as a Baha’i I don’t have that freedom here as you label it negatively because I exercised my freedom of speech. We are bound to think differently as we are all different.

          It’s very sad if that’s being implied.

        • KnowThyEnemy says

          Dec 28, 2015 at 1:13 pm

          @worldcitizen1919,
          The terrorists and Islamists are not all ‘crazies’. They do what they do because they have been duped by your kinds into believing that Quran and sunnah are from God.

          You are the crazy one! You think that protecting Quran and Muhammad is more important than opposing the atrocities being done in the name of Islam. On top of that you falsely blame US for “distorting facts” etc. That is clearly crazy! Unfortunately there are plenty of [your kind of] crazies all over the non-Muslim world and are the biggest hindrance to our work (Our work is to make people, both Muslims and non-Muslims, see the real satanic face of Islam and take actions accordingly)!

          “I like the challenge here ……”

          …..and you are going to lose! In fact, your types are already losing! People, both Muslims and non-Muslims, are fast finding out the ugly truth of Islam. The community of ex-Muslims is growing, however slowly! Our efforts ARE showing results though a lot more needs to be done.
          —————————-

          Your other post only shows that your understanding of Free Speech is as messed up as that of Islam. Of course you are free to say anything and we too are free to point out that your claims are utter nonsense.

          Good thing that you exercised your right to free speech here, because now we know both your agenda and your mental state!

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 28, 2015 at 7:33 pm

          Thank you very much for replying. I really enjoy reading your posts. I believe you and people here are very good people because you are so strongly against evil doers.

          I want nothing more than for this evil terrorism to stop but in the process I don’t want us dragged into a world war against all of Islam just because of the terrorists. So I support your views against terrorism. But you should know also that America will lead the world spiritually not Islam or Shariah. Here is why we believe that.

          “The American continent gives signs and evidences of very great advancement; its future is even more promising, for its influence and illumination are far-reaching, and it will lead all nations spiritually”. (Baha’i Writings)

          O God! Let this American democracy become glorious in spiritual degrees even as it has aspired to material degrees, and render this just government victorious. Confirm this revered nation to upraise the standard of the oneness of humanity, to promulgate the Most Great Peace, to become thereby most glorious and praiseworthy among all the nations of the world. O God! This American nation is worthy of Thy favors and is deserving of Thy mercy. Make it precious and near to Thee through Thy bounty and bestowal.

        • gravenimage says

          Dec 30, 2015 at 10:09 pm

          Yet more from worldcitizen1919:

          Just one other thing. If I’m in Iran and pray I’m evil and if I give my views on JW I’m spamming so I have no freedom of speech in both Iran and JW??

          Freedom of speech is central to western ideology and I would hope that you’re not telling me as a Baha’i I don’t have that freedom here as you label it negatively because I exercised my freedom of speech…
          …………………………..

          *Good lord*. Firstly, no one said that anyone who prays in Iran is evil–it depends what they are praying *for*. On the other hand, if you mean that orthodox Muslims despise Baha’i, this is true whether they are praying in Iran or in the free West. It is just that Muslims cannot oppress Baha’i and other religious minorities in the free world.

          In fact, it is only in places like the free West that Baha’i are free to practice their faith without fear. This is why they are headquartered in Israel, and have one of their largest congregations in the US and Canada.

          As for the idea that worldcitizen1919 has no freedom of speech at Jihad Watch, *nothing* could be more absurd. This poster has largely dominated this thread.

          As for some other commenters characterizing what he has posted here as spam, they are simply exercising their *own* freedom of speech.

          Freedom of speech does not come with any guarantees that others will agree with what any individual has to say–especially if he is falsely whitewashing a creed that would deprive us *all* of freedom of speech–and virtually every other freedom–if it is imposed on us.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 30, 2015 at 10:52 pm

          Thanks for clarifying that and many, many thanks to Jihad Watch for having me here and for PUTTING UP with my ‘absurd, ridiculous, crazy spam’lol.

          I respect you all and love the good debate and you are good people because you oppose terrorism. Anyone who opposes killing and murdering is good and you are very good people.

          I welcome wholeheartedly any criticism or points you fell I need to know or directions where I’ve made a boo boo. I’m only human but I’m on your side in many ways.

      • Richard says

        Dec 28, 2015 at 9:39 pm

        worldcitizen1919 – “it is Muslims who are to blame for disobedience to their Quran knowingly twisting its words to suit their lust for conquering.”

        Well then please untwist these words from the Quran for the Muslims and us:

        2:216 – “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you,….
        3:151 – “Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority” (For the terrible crime of saying Christ is the son of God. And why did Allah have to wait 6 and a half centuries to cast terror for this “crime” one doesn’t know.
        8:12 – “I [Allah] will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore [You – idiot believers ie Muslims] strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them” Disbelief in Muhammad/Allah is a terrible crime against Allah. But Allah is totally incapable of striking terror into the hearts of those that disbelieve except through those idiots who do believe this nonsense.
        8:39 – “And fight with them until there is no more unbelief and religion is all for Allah”
        8.1 – “They ask thee (O Muhammad) of the spoils of war. Say: The spoils of war belong to Allah and the messenger, so keep your duty to Allah, and adjust the matter of your difference, and obey Allah and His messenger, if ye are (true) believers.

        These and many, many other verses, but these to start with – please tell us the true meaning of these verses, and how Muslims have “twisted” them.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 28, 2015 at 10:16 pm

          In these passages we must know why Muhammad is choosing to fight and against whom.

          Those who attacked Muhammad and his followers was because He taught there was only one God and saw Him and Muslims as an economic threat to the regular tributes paid to the 360 gods of that time.

          When Muhammad would not retract His teachings of only one God the polytheists grew more desperate as they witnessed Muhammad’s popularity grow taking business away from them.

          Eventually it reached a point where there was first bribes offered to drop Muhammad’s insistence that there was only one God but when that failed threats began and when threats failed then oppression, killing, torturing, violence and expulsion were resorted to.

          Muhammad could not defend Himself or His followers so fled eventually to Medina where His teachings were accepted and many joined His Cause. However, His enemies on hearing of His successes grew even more alarmed and more determined to commit genocide and fully exterminate Muhammad and the religion of Islam.

          After 13 years of unrelenting persecution and oppression when Muhamnad finally had a force large enough to defend themselves he permitted Muslims to attack those who had murdered, pillaged and raped them for over 13 years.

          It was then that the military expeditions of Muhammad began and it was largely a fight for freedom of belief and religion. The right to believe in one God.

          All these instructions in the Quran to fight were against those who had attacked and murdered them but those who chose peace He formed peace pacts with but if those who had peace pacts with Muhammad secretly aided the enemy they were then considered null and void and attacked.

          It was not a one way street. The polytheists wanted the belief in one God stopped and Muhammad wanted freedom of belief and religion and so they attacked Muslims to try and stop them from having their beliefs.

          Eventually Muhammad defeated His enemies not all through war as was the march into Mecca and established a new nation most likely humankind’s first nation with a constitution and laws.

        • Richard says

          Dec 28, 2015 at 11:47 pm

          “In these passages we must know why Muhammad is choosing to fight and against whom.”

          He is choosing to fight for loot and plunder, against the Meccans, Jews, Christians, people that dont believe him and recognise him for the impostor he was.

          The rest of your reply is a pack of lies which I dont have time right now to refute, but will do so later.

        • Richard says

          Dec 29, 2015 at 5:46 pm

          worldcitizen1919 I’m sorry to say but there is no other way to describe you than a blithering, brainwashed, gullible. unquestioning, idiot.

          “Eventually Muhammad defeated His enemies and established a new nation…. most likely humankind’s first nation with a constitution and laws.”

          You blithering idiot. The “constitution and laws” he established were the oppressive, discriminatory and barbaric sharia.

          And as for “humankind’s first nation with a constitution and laws” idiot read about Athens and the enlightened Greek states, the foundations of our western democracies, about Rome and Constantinople. Read about the civilisations of India, the emperor Ashoka, and Persia’s own enlightened civilisation before they were destroyed by the barbaric Muslim armies.

          Muhammad was the person who raped and pillaged and not the Meccan who were a million times more tolerant and enlightened than him.

          Read about the all the Myths about Muhammad you have expounded here, if you can pull your brainwashed head out of your backside:
          http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Muhammad/myths-mu-home.htm

          PS IQ al Rassooli is right. You are a waste of time. No more correspondence with you.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 29, 2015 at 8:13 pm

          The Charter of Medina is arguably the first construction which included both religion and politics that laid out laws for a properly constituted society and city state.

        • gravenimage says

          Dec 30, 2015 at 10:16 pm

          The “Charter of Medina” is another fraud. How many has this poster referred to so far, just on this one thread?

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Dec 30, 2015 at 10:43 pm

          C’mon give me a break. Many of these documents were acted on by Sultans s and Caliphs who new they were from Muhammad and are over a 1,000 years old.

          But the Quran which was written about the same time which you accept unquestionably in order to attack it is genuine?? Ha! Ha!

          I’m damned if I do and damned if I don’t!!! Lol

          So let me understand. If it attacks the Quran and defames it it’s genuine and if it exalts and says good things about Islam and reflects good on Muhammad it’s evil right???

          Lol. Lol loll methinks the smell of bias is very strong here !!!!!

          As long as you’re enjoying yourself. Just got to go and change my ‘body armour’ in preparation for your next attack? Lol lol.

          Have a good day.

        • gravenimage says

          Dec 31, 2015 at 9:11 pm

          But the Quran which was written about the same time which you accept unquestionably in order to attack it is genuine?? Ha! Ha!
          ……………………………………

          I have never accepted the Qur’an as genuine–either as an “uncreated” document nor as the word of God–but it is clear that Muslims accept it as genuine, and follow its vicious tenets when they murder and enslave their victims. *That* is why it is important for us to understand what this tome says and how pious Muslims follow it.

          But not only is it clear that documents such as the Achtiname of Muhammad (which supposedly offered his protection to the monks of St. Catherine in Sinai) are ahistorical forgeries–obviously Muhammed never traveled to Sinai during his lifetime, and the document itself contains images dating from a much later period–but Muslims have rarely abided by its tenets and left Christians and other Infidels unmolested.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 1, 2016 at 12:05 am

          Muhammad commanded Muslims not to harm Christians. Christ taught to love thy neighbour. People after hearing these things make their own choices for which they and they only are responsible.

          I’m not responsible for your mistakes nor you mine. The prophets Brough us and told us to do good things and if we choose differently that’s not their fault.

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 1, 2016 at 11:06 pm

          worldcitizen1919 wrote:

          Muhammad commanded Muslims not to harm Christians.
          ……………………….

          *Sure*:

          Some Jews and Christians are true believers, accepting Islam: most are transgressors.
          –Qur’an Âl ‘Imran 3:109

          [in other words, the only good Christians are those who converted to Islam–GI]

          Muslims should not take Christians or Jews for friends.
          –Qur’an Al-Ma’idah 5:51

          Muslims must fight against Christians and Jews who refuse Islam until they surrender, pay the poll-tax and are humiliated.
          –Qur’an At-Taubah 9:29

          [Christians are only to be tolerated if they are oppressed dhimmis–GI]

          Narrated ‘Aisha and ‘Abdullah bin ‘Abbas: When the last moment of the life of Allah’s Apostle came he started putting his ‘Khamisa’ on his face and when he felt hot and short of breath he took it off his face and said, “May Allah curse the Jews and Christians for they built the places of worship at the graves of their Prophets.” The Prophet was warning (Muslims) of what those had done.
          — Sahih al-Bukhari, 1:8:427

          It has been narrated by ‘Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.
          — Sahih Muslim, 19:4366

          At the end of his life, even this oppression was too “tolerant” for Muhammed–he wanted Arabia rendered “Christian-rein”.

          In the last days it is the role of the Muslim “Jesus”–“Isa”–to murder any Christians who resist forced conversion to Islam.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 2, 2016 at 2:02 am

          As far as ‘friends’ the Arabic word for that verse translates as political and moral allies and friend is not the correct English translation . Muslims are to follow the Quran not ally themselves with other tribes etc but are permitted to be friends . Association is permitted but not political or moral affiliation. English translations do not often correctly convey the right meaning.

          Muhammad Asad was a western Austrian -Hungarian Jew who converted to Islam and was proficient in Hebrew, Aramic, Persian, Arabic, Polish and French as well as English. His translation is renowned for its accuracy.

          His translation called The Message if the Quran is the most accurate and unbiased rendering I have ever come across including Pickthall, Dawood, Sale, Ysuf Ali and Rodwell amongst others ………….

          5:51 You who believe, do not take the Jews and Christians as allies: as they are allies only to each other. Anyone who takes them as an ally becomes one of them—God does not guide such wrongdoers—

          2:62 The [Muslim] believers, the Jews, the Christians, and the Sabians and all those who believe in God and the Last Day and do good—will have their rewards with their Lord. No fear for them, nor will they grieve.

        • KnowThyEnemy says

          Jan 2, 2016 at 3:01 pm

          @worldcitizen1919
          You are never going to stop with your taqiyya, are you? There are dozens of verses in the Quran that state that non-Muslims (including Jews and Christians) are going to go to hell. But you purposely pick Q2:62 because if not taken in context, it seems to be saying that Jews, Christians, and Sabians will be rewarded if they believe and do good. You are hoping that no one here will bother to check the context and all of us will happily fall for your deception.

          Let’s find out what the Muslim scholars say about Q2:62. The ayat can be understood [even] better if the tafseer regarding a few previous ayats is read, but that is not necessary. So here is what Ibn Kathir has to say-

          After Allah described [in the few ayats preceding Q2:62] the condition – and punishment – of those who defy His commands, fall into His prohibitions and transgress set limits by committing prohibited acts, He stated that the earlier nations who were righteous and obedient received the rewards for their good deeds. This shall be the case, until the Day of Judgment. Therefore, whoever follows the unlettered Messenger and Prophet shall acquire eternal happiness and shall neither fear from what will happen in the future nor become sad for what has been lost in the past. Similarly, Allah said,
          (No doubt! Verily, the Awliya’ of Allah, no fear shall come upon them nor shall they grieve) (10:62).
          The angels will proclaim to the dying believers, as mentioned,
          (Verily, those who say: “Our Lord is Allah (alone),” and then they stand firm, on them the angels will descend (at the time of their death) (saying): “Fear not, nor grieve! But receive the glad tidings of Paradise which you have been promised!”). (41:30)

          `Ali bin Abi Talhah narrated from Ibn `Abbas, about,
          (Verily, those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day) that Allah revealed the following Ayah afterwards,
          (And whoever seeks religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers) (3:85).
          This statement by Ibn `Abbas indicates that Allah does not accept any deed or work from anyone, unless it conforms to the Law of Muhammad that is, after Allah sent Muhammad . Before that, every person who followed the guidance of his own Prophet was on the correct path, following the correct guidance and was saved.

          The Jews are the followers of Prophet Musa, who used to refer to the Tawrah for judgment. Yahud is a word that means, `repenting’, just as Musa said,
          (“Who will be my helpers in Allah’s cause” Al-Hawariyyun said: “We are the helpers of Allah.”) (61:14)

          It was said that they were called `Nasara’, because they inhabited a land called An-Nasirah (Nazareth), as Qatadah, Ibn Jurayj and Ibn `Abbas were reported to have said, Allah knows best. Nasara is certainly plural for Nasran.
          When Allah sent Muhammad as the Last and Final Prophet and Messenger to all of the Children of Adam, mankind was required to believe in him, obey him and refrain from what he prohibited them; those who do this are true believers. The Ummah of Muhammad was called `Mu’minin’ (believers), because of the depth of their faith and certainty, and because they believe in all of the previous Prophets and matters of the Unseen.

          There is a difference of opinion over the identity of the Sabians. Sufyan Ath-Thawri said that Layth bin Abu Sulaym said that Mujahid said that, “The Sabians are between the Majus, the Jews and the Christians. They do not have a specific religion.” Similar is reported from Ibn Abi Najih. Similar statements were attributed to `Ata’ and Sa`id bin Jubayr. They (others) say that the Sabians are a sect among the People of the Book who used to read the Zabur (Psalms), others say that they are a people who worshipped the angels or the stars. It appears that the closest opinion to the truth, and Allah knows best, is Mujahid’s statement and those who agree with him like Wahb bin Munabbih, that the Sabians are neither Jews nor Christians nor Majus nor polytheists. Rather, they did not have a specific religion that they followed and enforced, because they remained living according to their Fitrah (instinctual nature). This is why the idolators used to call whoever embraced Islam a `Sabi’, meaning, that he abandoned all religions that existed on the earth. Some scholars stated that the Sabians are those who never received a message by any Prophet. And Allah knows best.

          It should be obvious from reading the above that Q2:62 is only talking about those Jews and Christians who lived prior to Muhammad, and those who have never [yet] heard of Muhammad’s invitation to join Islam. The latter probably is the reason why this ayah is revealed in the present tense.

          Bottomline: worldcitizen1919 is doing taqiyya for the benefit of Islam!

          Source: Quran Tafsir Ibn Kathir. Link: http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=372&Itemid=36
          There are “” buttons at the bottom of the linked page. Readers might want to read a few previous slides for somewhat better understanding.

        • IQ al Rassooli says

          Jan 2, 2016 at 3:36 pm

          Dear readers it should by now be OBVIOUS that worldcitizen1919 is either an ‘agent provocateur’ or the usual Brain Dead follower of Muhammad

          Either way, many of you are WASTING an enormous amount of time refuting his asinine comments and encouraging him to write more

          It is best to let him DIE with lack of response

          IQ al Rassooli
          Kafir & Proud!

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 2, 2016 at 5:48 pm

          I’m only speaking the truth.

          The Quran praised good and sincere people and condemned those creating mischief and attacking and oppressing the innocent. Muhammad made Covenants with monks and Christians which still exist today.

          The Quran defended the right of freedom of worship of all Faiths and that’s why it permitted fighting to protect the beliefs of all not just Muslims.

          This verse is very clear about the conditions that Muslims can fight – ONLY self defense and that they are fighting against oppression and to protect the freedom of belief of all faiths.

          22:39/40

          (39) PERMISSION [to fight] is given to those against whom war is being wrongfully waged –and, verily, God has indeed the power to succour them –(40) those who have been driven from their homelands against all right for no other reason than their saying, “Our Sustainer is God!” For, if God had not enabled people to defend themselves against one another, [all] monasteries and churches and synagogues and mosques –in [all of] which God’s name is abundantly extolled –would surely have been destroyed [ere now].

  37. Custos Custodum says

    Dec 27, 2015 at 12:40 am

    One additional point may not be obvious regarding the two words mentioned by Robert Spencer, akbar and kabir.

    It is is important to note that the both words contain the key consonants k-b-r. This is not a mere coincidence but a regular feature of Semitic languages such as Arabic and Hebrew where adding different vowels within the consonant framework creates related words with different shades of meaning, such as “great” vs. “greater” in these examples.

    The slogan “Allahu akbar” is itself known as the takbir in Arabic, again derived from the k-b-r root.

  38. KnowThyEnemy says

    Dec 27, 2015 at 1:49 pm

    I have posted this before and am doing it again because it is important:

    Many people who post comments at JW are well-learned, well-informed, and quite bright (that is, they know how to get their point across), and needless to say, this is evident from reading their posts. Unfortunately, a lot of the quality comments get buried as more posts and hundreds of new comments are posted every day. Within days, it becomes difficult as impossible to find those comments.

    The solution to this is for the good commenters to get a webpage and dedicate it to keeping a copy of the good comments there. This is not hard nor does it cost anything in fees. You can make such a page at Google Plus, Google Sites, or WordPress, etc. I would avoid making a page at Facebook as they tend to delete/suspend the page if someone reports it.

    Once you have such a page, all you have to do is enter the webpage address (alongwith your username and email) whenever you post a comment at JW. You do not have to post direct links to particular comments. People can go to your page and find the comment themselves! On this post IQ al Rassooli and Plutarchus, among others, have links to their webpages. Please hover the mouse on their usernames.

    There are many advantages to making such a page. Here are a few of them-

    1) At your webpage you do not have to keep an exact copy of the comment that you posted at JW. You can edit your comment for corrections and clarity, give it a proper title, add pictures and videos to it, and add links to source material.

    2) You can write a brief comment at JW and then elaborate it in full detail on your page. Any subsequent time that you have to post same information at JW, all you have to do is write a brief comment, post a direct link to the topic on your page, and ask people to check it out for details and sources. This will save you lots of time, effort, and you will still be providing quality, detailed material.

    3) If I want to retrieve a particular comment and all I can recall is your username, then all I have to do is find you on any of the JW posts, click on your username, and it will take me to your webpage. Then I can browse your page for the topic that I am looking for.

    4) If any one of us is discussing a particular topic with someone, we can provide links to the other party for them to read, instead of having to write the whole thing again. Just imagine how much time and effort this would save and how much we can increase our reach!

    5) We can also network and collaborate with other people. Google Sites for example, allows multiple people to work together and set up a website. Just imagine what the bright JW commenters can accomplish as a team.

    But here is the advantage that IMO is most important-
    6) The information on your webpage might already be available elsewhere. However, you can customize the information for your own target audience. For example, I once picked up three verses from the Quran, declared that Quran was not from God, and challenged Muslims to prove otherwise. The Muslims that I contacted (through youtube comments) were almost all of South Asian background, and so in the debate I used terms and material that only South Asians are familiar with! When the Muslims lost the challenge, I compiled all their responses under a separate heading. Anyone interested can check it out at this link-
    https://plus.google.com/117948605050831567900/posts/cdLbBqxZNrY

    Since JihadWatch provides the useful feature of linking a web address to our username, it is only smart that we should make best use of it, thereby making our work more effective!

  39. steve says

    Dec 27, 2015 at 1:53 pm

    This link is about cults and mind control and is particularly applicable to the way islamsists act.

    http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_mindcon27.htm

  40. Aussie Infidel says

    Dec 27, 2015 at 9:30 pm

    I don’t remember anyone posting this hadith:

    “When Allah’s Apostle fought or raided people we raised our voices saying, ‘Allahu-Akbar! Allahu-Akbar! None has the right to be worshipped but Allah’.” (Bukhari 5:59:516).

    The war-cry of the jihadists goes right back to Muhammad himself.

    “We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve … And their refuge will be the Fire … ” (Quran 3:151).

    Islam is a religion of the sword and has no place in a civilized society.

  41. Concerned Citizen says

    Dec 28, 2015 at 10:18 am

    A reminder to all those who have commented: None of your opinions will matter one bit unless you make sure to vote in every election from school levels and city levels to the Presidential level. Not only is it crucial to cast your votes but to also participate in various meetings related to these elections. In addition to voting, it is important that all of us spread the word and also assist our fellow citizens in casting their votes. We face a deadly enemy who is determined to use our own devices against us in order to destroy us.

  42. gravenimage says

    Dec 30, 2015 at 10:18 pm

    Good post, Aussie Infidel. Just the line “when Allah’s apostle raided a people…” is grotesque. And you are quite right about the early use of “Allahu Akbar!”.

  43. Hirondel says

    Mar 5, 2016 at 5:52 pm

    Pretty much every religion has proclaimed “my god is greater than your god”: so what? It’s all human pomposity.

    • JawsV says

      Mar 14, 2016 at 9:10 am

      No, only the Mohammedans proclaim that their god is the greatest.

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