The seizure of Infidel girls and their use as sex slaves is sanctioned in the Qur’an. According to Islamic law, Muslim men can take “captives of the right hand” (Qur’an 4:3, 4:24, 33:50). The Qur’an says: “O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war” (33:50). 4:3 and 4:24 extend this privilege to Muslim men in general. The Qur’an says that a man may have sex with his wives and with these slave girls: “The believers must (eventually) win through, those who humble themselves in their prayers; who avoid vain talk; who are active in deeds of charity; who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess, for (in their case) they are free from blame.” (Qur’an 23:1-6)
The rape of captive women is also sanctioned in Islamic tradition:
Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa’id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): 0 Abu Sa’id, did you hear Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-’azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi’l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing ‘azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah’s Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born. (Sahih Muslim 3371)
It is also in Islamic law: “When a child or a woman is taken captive, they become slaves by the fact of capture, and the woman’s previous marriage is immediately annulled.” (Umdat al-Salik O9.13)
The Egyptian Sheikh Abu-Ishaq al-Huwayni declared in May 2011 that “we are in the era of jihad,” and that meant Muslims would take slaves. In a subsequent interview he elaborated:
Jihad is only between Muslims and infidels. Spoils, slaves, and prisoners are only to be taken in war between Muslims and infidels. Muslims in the past conquered, invaded, and took over countries. This is agreed to by all scholars—there is no disagreement on this from any of them, from the smallest to the largest, on the issue of taking spoils and prisoners. The prisoners and spoils are distributed among the fighters, which includes men, women, children, wealth, and so on.
When a slave market is erected, which is a market in which are sold slaves and sex-slaves, which are called in the Qur’an by the name milk al-yamin, “that which your right hands possess” [Koran 4:24]. This is a verse from the Qur’an which is still in force, and has not been abrogated. The milk al-yamin are the sex-slaves. You go to the market, look at the sex-slave, and buy her. She becomes like your wife, (but) she doesn’t need a (marriage) contract or a divorce like a free woman, nor does she need a wali. All scholars agree on this point—there is no disagreement from any of them. […] When I want a sex slave, I just go to the market and choose the woman I like and purchase her.
Around the same time, on May 25, 2011, a female Kuwaiti politician, Salwa al-Mutairi, also spoke out in favor of the Islamic practice of sexual slavery of non-Muslim women, emphasizing that the practice accorded with Islamic law and the parameters of Islamic morality.
A merchant told me that he would like to have a sex slave. He said he would not be negligent with her, and that Islam permitted this sort of thing. He was speaking the truth. I brought up [this man’s] situation to the muftis in Mecca. I told them that I had a question, since they were men who specialized in what was halal, and what was good, and who loved women. I said, “What is the law of sex slaves?”
The mufti said, “With the law of sex slaves, there must be a Muslim nation at war with a Christian nation, or a nation which is not of the religion, not of the religion of Islam. And there must be prisoners of war.”
“Is this forbidden by Islam?” I asked.
“Absolutely not. Sex slaves are not forbidden by Islam. On the contrary, sex slaves are under a different law than the free woman. The free woman must be completely covered except for her face and hands. But the sex slave can be naked from the waist up. She differs a lot from the free woman. While the free woman requires a marriage contract, the sex slave does not—she only needs to be purchased by her husband, and that’s it. Therefore the sex slave is different than the free woman.”
The savage exploitation of girls and young women is, unfortunately, a cross-cultural phenomenon, but only in Islamic law does it carry divine sanction.
“Allah allows Muslims to rape non-Muslim women in order to humiliate them, claims Islamic professor,” Zee News, January 17, 2016:
Washington: A female Islamic professor has claimed that Allah has allowed Muslim men to rape non-Muslim women in order to ‘humiliate’ them, report stated.
Suad Saleh, who is a professor from the renowned Al-Azhar University in Cairo, Egypt, made the claims during an interview to a TV channel.
According to The Inquisitr News report, in the video posted by LiveLeak, Saleh says that Allah has given the Muslim men a way to have sexual relations with slave women that is ‘legitimate’.
Saleh suggests that the only time it is acceptable for Muslim men to enslave a woman for sexual purposes is during a ‘legitimate war’ between Muslims and their enemies such as that with Israel.
Therefore, the female Islamic professor says that enslaving Israeli women and raping them would be entirely acceptable and encouraged, states The Inquistr News report.
“The female prisoners of wars are ‘those whom you own.’ In order to humiliate them, they become the property of the army commander, or of a Muslim, and he can have sex with them just like he has sex with his wives,” reads the transcript of the interview provided by The Middle East Media Research Institute.
However, after her interview went viral many including members of Muslim community condemned her claims and termed them false propaganda of Islam.
homosaps says
Well it’s clear who just won the daily most punchable face award…
nicu says
absolutely — they are all brainwashed and dumb as hell !
We don’t need them on our planet !
Jay Boo says
They believe what they want to believe.
Muhammad told Muslims what they wanted to hear.
Shane says
Yes, and Muhammad told himself what he wanted to hear. He always found a way to justify his sick urges!
manuel paleologus says
This Islam woman scholar from Cairo, explained very clear what Islam stands for. Those who wanted to study Islam are not surprised of her statement, because this is what islam is. Islam and the Muslim culture is incompatible with Christianity and the 14 centuries of long history confirm this in a truly pragmatic manner.
The fact that many Western European countries had bypassed this vital element of Islam, imposed a dramatic price to be paid by their populations. Their politicians, under the disguise of being ‘political correct’ and humanitarian allowed this biblical proportion invasion into their land which irreversible consequences on their demographic fabric.
Europe will become very soon Islamized and will ignite social unrest which will generate demographic wars, meant to preserve their own cultural Christian civilization. The persecution of Christian will reach unbelievable cruelty levels as we can already seen in many parts of the world.
America must stop and Muslim immigration, because this has become an issue of national security treat.
Storm says
Ancient Aliens conquering claimed “God”s laws/rules ? …
Or a 6 th Century regional culturally new claimed God’ s laws against all Women, including their own earthly mothers for bearing them.
Too many men still today being taught by their chosen, or enforced religious dogmas and rules, to despise Women’s biological genetic role, as bearers of “Life”, …. an assignment assignment fostered upon all Earthly Females, by much greater cosmological intents and designs …. beyond any of the since claimed gods of Earth can ever claim.
Yet, there still exist among men a consistent diabolical desire to punish the Female gender for it’s biological inborn capacity to bear Life out of its body, which at some point in ancient history was somehow decreed a sin.
Some very disturbed envious powerful political Males , since called clerics and representants of their various budding competing cults, decided back in those ancient days that their physical superior strength gave them the ultimate opportunity to make kill Life, and subjugate the Life birthing Females, as one of their long term weapon of conquest against any tribes who stood in their way.
A new system of thought had emerged to conquer, killing all the men first … then taking all their women / girls as slaves, …. after raping and impregnating everyone of them…. whom were and are to this day … as the Quran articles … so clearly state above, as religious tenets.
The West wonders ….
Yet, … the Greatest Ancient True Teachers around the world, always taught that those who are not taught the True meanings of Life itself are those taught to destroy those who do.
“Whatever Life ‘ s Mystery Men do not understand, … always destroy.”
Ignorance is not Bliss for anyone alive.
David C. Telliho says
Islam is incompatible with civilization.
EYESOPEN says
homosaps said: “Well it’s clear who just won the daily most punchable face award…”
Absolutely. Another name for it: BEAST.
Guest says
Great comment
Sam says
Well, another misunderstander of Islam. Nobody understands this religion of peace. I am going to have Obama explain to me” what Islam is not”. Or some thing like that.
Jay Boo says
Islam is simple.
Islam has no honor or spiritual component.
Rather than striving to live with honor, Muslims wish to humiliate others in order attempt to elevate themselves above Islam’s slime by lowering others.
Diana says
no sorry mate – you missed a few other pillars.
In addition to the exemplary keller pillar (the most perfect example set by the most “perfect” psychopath momadman), the other pillars are:-
rape, slavery, plunder/pillage/piracy and paedophilia.
Perfect hey?
gravenimage says
Spot on, Diana.
Muslim منى says
I would’ve ignored your comment but I thought that maybe you really didn’t know the 5 pillars of Islam. It would be rude of me not to correct you. The five pillars of Islam are
1) The testimony of faith (al-shahadatain)
2) Prayer
3) Supporting the needy (Zakat)
4) Fasting the month of Ramadan
5) Pilgrimage to Mecca (Hajj)
you’re welcome (;
gravenimage says
The moronic “Muslim منى” wrote:
I would’ve ignored your comment but I thought that maybe you really didn’t know the 5 pillars of Islam. It would be rude of me not to correct you. The five pillars of Islam are
1) The testimony of faith (al-shahadatain)
2) Prayer
3) Supporting the needy (Zakat)
4) Fasting the month of Ramadan
5) Pilgrimage to Mecca (Hajj)
you’re welcome (;
………………………….
What a tool. Everyone here knows what the “Five Pillars” of Islam are. (Although Zakat is not really charity–it is anything that enables Islam, *including* the funding of violent Jihad).
What was meant by JAT349, Diana, and myself is that rape, slavery, plunder, paedophilia, and murder are all intrinsic to that foul creed.
By the way, “منى” is interesting–it translates as both “desire” and “ejaculate”.
Given the story above, this seems all too apt.
Notice that “Muslim منى” has not a *word* of criticism for a Muslim scholar confirming the rape of infidel sex slaves.
Given his obvious concern that no one here misunderstand Islam, it is quite clear that he has no problem with this. *Ugh*.
gravenimage says
Female al-Azhar prof: Allah allows Muslims to rape non-Muslim women
…………………………..
My only surprise is that there is any female professor at Al-Azhar.
But since Al-Azhar “scholars” have *already” confirmed the Islamic use of sex slaves, her statement surprises not at all.
Some hope that Muslimahs are less savage than are Muslim men–but so often they are just as bad.
And her openly saying that raping Infidel women is intended to *humiliate* also gives the lie to common Muslim apologia that taking Infidel women as slaves was actually a kindness, since the men who would have taken care of them had been killed in war.
More:
However, after her interview went viral many including members of Muslim community condemned her claims and termed them false propaganda of Islam.
…………………………..
“False propaganda of Islam”–strange phrasing. What this almost certainly means is that some slow Jihadists object to her statements because they may make Islam “look bad” to ‘filthy Infidels’ such as ourselves.
Of course when Islam is more of a position of power, there are no such objections from Muslims–as, for instance, in the Islamic State.
Wellington says
Ditto, gravenimage. And to see any female defend Islam, or any black for that matter considering the horrendous record on African slavery Islam has had from its warped white Profiteer founder onwards, is to realize that there are many which no amount of knowledge and common sense will ever reach.
It’s Stockholm Syndrome on steroids, which Islam must count on to a great extent in order to still propagate its highly destructive nonsense. Telling and damning how ignorance favors Islam so very much. Yes, time and time again.
gravenimage says
All true, dear Wellington.
Lelia says
I took the “false propaganda” comment as a form of taquiya, or Muslim lying to ultimately promote Islam.
Peggy says
What would she know about Islam? Obama, Cameron etc are true experts and they tell us that Islam is a religion of peace.
Here is a professor telling us how it is and some still expect us not to believe her but to believe them AND so many will.
Can it get any more nuttier?
Darryl Kerney says
AND, let us not forget or fail to mention, Baghdadi, the LEADER of ISIS has,
a B.A.,
an M.A.,
AND,
a PH.D, in what ?
ISLAMIC STUDIES !!!
from a university in IRAQ,
but ISIS according to obama and other LIARS is NOT ISLAMIC.
how the FFFF they know more about islam than he does is never explained,
or how everything ISIS says and does can be found in the quran as obligatory for muslims in order to further islam, or that the only way a male muslim can be sure reach “heaven” is through violent jihad.
PRCS says
gravenimage says
PRCS, thanks for posting this video by Brother Rashid.
You can just look at his eyes and see that he is a civilized apostate–the difference between fervent Muslims with their dead eyes is startling.
He is someone who knows from experience *exactly* what Islam is. Kudos to his bravery and principles for leaving that violent creed, and working to warn us about it.
Champ says
“Allah allows Muslims to rape non-Muslim women in order to humiliate them, claims Islamic professor,”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What a sick and perverted ‘religion’ islam is …
And islam is a humiliation to humanity on the whole.
Mockingjay says
“And islam is a humiliation to humanity on the whole.”
How true, Champ!
Islam really consists of and displays the absolute and utter worst that humanity is capable of.
It truly is a degradation of the human race.
.
Champ says
All true, Mockingjay, Wellington and Jay Boo!
And Wellington wrote:
“In fact, it is so sick that any fictional construction of a religion which put forth what Islam does would immediately be dismissed as completely unrealistic.”
Spot on, Wellington! Wow what an excellent point. Crazy, but true; and it demonstrates just how far mankind has fallen.
Wellington says
“And Islam is a humiliation to humanity on the whole.”
With you again, Champ. My God, Islam is so sick. In fact, it is so sick that any fictional construction of a religion which put forth what Islam does would immediately be dismissed as completely unrealistic. And yet the great religious sickness which is Islam still gets a pass.
Madness. Pure madness. Only reality could create such a monster as Islam. Fiction, if it ever tried to do so, wouldn’t even make it to first base (An apt baseball metaphor I think and, while we’re at it, what great sport did the Islamic world ever create? I know of none. Telling again respecting how Islam is a consumer while rarely, if ever, being a producer.).
Mockingjay says
Well, Wellington, you know they always say that sport is a kind of ritualized substitute for war – then you know why Islam really has no need for sport.
Jay Boo says
ditto
@Champ, Wellington, Mockingjay
Diana says
Wellington I’m surprised you asked “what great sport did the Islamic world ever create?”
Their favorite sports involve target practice – by throwing rocks at semi-buried people (stoning); throwing gays off high buildings (oh what fun!) and let’s not forget that extra special islamic delight of Tahrrush Gamea or organised pack rapes in public places like seen in Tahrir Sq, Sydney and all over Europe”.
Who else could have thought up sports like that?
Ben says
Those can’t be real sports, Diana, because there are no beer commercials when the broadcast them on TV.
Muslim منى says
Have you ever heard of the Islamic Golden Age (;
gravenimage says
The “Islamic Golden Age” was the death throes of conquered cultures–Roman north Africa, Persia, Byzantium.
Once enough Infidels were murdered, forced to convert, or crushed under dhimmitude, the “Golden Age” ended.
If–God forbid!–Islam ever conqueres the free West, it would have another “Golden Age”–until the last vestiges of our greatness were crushed by Islam, as well.
Note again: “Muslim منى” has *nothing* to say against the Muslim rape of Infidel sex slaves. Ask what sort of “Golden Age”: this would be for *them*.
Nancy G. Erickson says
Who said this and why do you believe it? I don’t want to believe that Islam negates women.
Andy Martin says
Nancy boy. Are you having a laugh or just plain thick?
If the latter, then you could peruse the educational material on this website, or have a look at the ongoing situation in Germany regarding how some of the ‘guests’ are making themselves extremely unwelcome through their unsolicited attacks on women.
There,
I could have posted a much ruder reply, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.
worldcitizen1919 says
In all religions women have been the glory and held together the Cause.
It was Mary that never lost Faith after Jesus was crucified while the apostles were downcast and doubtful. It was Mary who revived their faith.
In Islam the first person to be martyred was a woman called Sumayya bint Khayyat. She was abused and insulted and threatened. She was a freed African slave.
The Quraysh kept torturing her demanding she give up her belief in Go and Muhammad but she refused.
“Abu Jahl could not accept the fact that she could resist him so stubbornly and out of rage he thrust his spear into her.”
Women in many ways are far superior to men.
Look at human history. All the wars and bloodshed committed by men.
That’s why in this new age woman is exalted and will become not only man’s equal but his superior in more ways than one.
Women will not take us down the same dark path that men have for thousands of years.
That’s why, as we see more women in power there is hope for world peace. With men you can forget peace. They’ve had thousands of years but been unable to do anything but kill, slaughter and conquer.
With women it will be a much better world.
On forums I go to the most courteous people are the women.
In the not to distant future men will pay tribute to women and acknowledge their superiority in many ways. Here’s what they’ll say……
“Rest ye assured! Ere long the days shall come when the men addressing the women, shall say: ‘Blessed are ye! Blessed are ye! Verily ye are worthy of every gift. Verily ye deserve to adorn your heads with the crown of everlasting glory, because in sciences and arts, in virtues and perfections ye shall become equal to man, and as regards tenderness of heart and the abundance of mercy and sympathy ye are superior’.”
Excerpt From: Bahá, Abdu’l. “Paris Talks.” Bahá’í eBooks
PRCS says
Another brain dead, booger eating Islamic “scholar”.
ballotcode says
getting caught telling the truth about Mohamedism.
Why the PR campaign to deny what a scholar is saying?
The more that is revealed about Mohamedism, the worse it gets.
gravenimage says
Read this breezy piece of idiocy from 2005 about “feminism” in Egypt:
“Egypt: Islamic sisters advance”
https://mondediplo.com/2005/09/12woman
It proudly notes: “Islamonline has its own muftiyyas, among them Professor Suad Saleh, a dean of al-Azhar.”
Islamonline is a huge and frequently visited site.
I guess we now know that enslaving and raping Infidel women is a part of “feminism”.
God, I hate Islam.
Linde Barrera says
I want to apologize in advance to anyone who reads my post here, as I have never in my life been so graphic. But in my humble opinion, there really is no difference between an “Infidel” sex slave in Islam and a Muslim woman who is a “wife” in Islam. They both get f**ked by the same Muslim man and that is hideous, gross and disgusting. ???
Edwin1683 says
There is no need to apologize, Linde. And you are absolutely right: no woman in the evil cult known as Islam has any kind of a life. The amount of suffering they must endure is just unimaginable.
Linde Barrera says
To Edwin1683- Thank you for your supportive comment. I too wonder about the suffering and inequities that so many Muslim women must endure. Take care.
Mike says
I loved your comment
???
Linde Barrera says
To Mike- Thank you for your kind comment. Be well.
Westman says
And, they are both slaves in all other ways as well. That one is regarded as a sub-slave to the wife-slave hardly matters. Do or be beaten. Be a baby machine and serve males. The wife is also unable to refuse sex -it’s in the Quran!
When a muslim teenager disrespects his mother, it is a sign of growth. How many have hissed at their mothers with, “You are inferior, it’s in the Quran, and the Prophet said Hell is mostly filled with women!”?
How difficult it must be for muslims to be trapped, in a modern world, by both a barbaric ideology that they can’t leave without being endangered, and the Orthodox Muslims that give them all a bad image? There are only two avenues open: withold or lie about Islamuc Ideology, or, be a lax Muslim – a muslim in name only (a MINO)
gravenimage says
No need to apologize, Linde–it is Islam that should apologize.
Linde Barrera says
To gravenimage- Thank you for endorsing my comment. I am still praying for your mother-in-law, and I hope she is getting better. God bless you and yours, graven.
gravenimage says
Thank you, Linde.
Muslim منى says
I’m a Muslim woman. My mother, aunts, cousins, sisters, and grandmothers are all female Muslims. You don’t know us, so don’t speak for us. Your pity is uncalled for and not wanted. In fact I pity you lot and your ignorance.
gravenimage says
In other words, this Muslimah *enjoys* being a slave.
Still waiting for her to condemn the rape of Infidel women by her foul coreligionists….
Angemon says
Basically, what she says is “stop raping muslim women, stick to infidels”. How “feminist” of her…
gravenimage says
True, Angemon. That’s what the Hijab says as well–“don’t rape me, rape that unveiled slut over there”.
God, I hate Islam.
abad says
Saleh has a reason to wear a burka over her head – with a face like that LOL
But her Quran thumping only further reveals just how uneducated Muslims are.
Brit says
Please stop being misogynistic. It is comments such as this, which drag the reputation of the counter-jihad even further into the mud.
Angemon says
Brit posted:
“Please stop being misogynistic. ”
Considering a woman to be ugly is not misogyny. Also, pointing out an obvious error is NOT mansplaining. Just going to say that in advance and save you the time.
“ It is comments such as this, which drag the reputation of the counter-jihad even further into the mud.”
No, they don’t.
Anyway, I look forward to see you protesting the next time a commentator makes a similar joke about facial features of male muslims – like, for example, stating that they, like their prophet, are so ugly that they need to force themselves on women because no woman would voluntarily have sex with them, or that they go after little girls because they have minuscule penises, like their prophet. Case in point: the Rotherham rapists.
J. K. Pedroso says
Considering that women who you find ugly have a “reason” to cover their faces just for the sake of the male (dis)pleasure is misogyny. Women are attacked like that all the time by straight men. And you are talking about the burka, something many women are forced to wear.
Angemon says
J. K. Pedroso posted:
“Considering that women who you find ugly have a “reason” to cover their faces just for the sake of the male (dis)pleasure is misogyny. ”
First of all, look up at who said what. I’m not abad, am I? Second, no, it isn’t. Go look up the definition of misogyny. Third, by your logic, misandry must be rampant among women. Fourth, get your head out of Anita Sarkeesian’s ass – by her own logic, she’s the most racist, sexist, homophobic people alive.
“Women are attacked like that all the time by straight men.”
Do you know who’s the worst offender when it comes to attacking ugly women? It’s not straight men. Or non-straight men. It’s not men at all. It’s other women.
“And you are talking about the burka, something many women are forced to wear.”
Again, look at who said what. And look at who you are trying to white-knight: a *woman* who’s stating the scenarios where men are *allowed* to rape women. But you prefer to ignore that because someone made a comment about that woman who being ugly – priorities, priorities…
gravenimage says
Brit wrote:
Please stop being misogynistic. It is comments such as this, which drag the reputation of the counter-jihad even further into the mud.
………………………..
“Even further”? So opposing rape, slavery, and mass-murder are *bad things*?
Wellington says
As gravenimage already noted, what’s with “even further?” May I suggest that you look at the beam in the eye of the Muslim before pointing out the speck of dust in the eye of the counter-jihadist.
Blangwort says
I disagree. She is very educated in the ways of Islam. Unfortunately for her, it is still a cult of hate.
Lesley says
I’m not a religious person, but I do often pray that I live to see the day that the scourge of Islam is wiped from the face of the Earth. The only place that this ideology has in the modern world is in a museum of human atrocities next to Nazi Germany.
Jay Boo says
Every mosque is nothing but a human pig pen of depravity.
Mockingjay says
Oh my God – and she is so righteous in her own mind.
“You can’t just have sex with any girl, no, that is all wrong, it has to be an infidel prisoner taken in war…”
And is it me or does everything sound particularly revolting in the arabic language
? I’m getting a gag reflex when listening to it. Especially the way she says “Izzlhem” – uugh.
Jay Boo says
Stealing, murder, rape and every other sin imaginable is condoned by this pig bath cult.
Followers of Islam have absolutely no shame or honor.
Blangwort says
A legitimate religion would apply its morals to all, with additional requirements for its adherents.
A cult separates its adherents from everyone else. Adherents to the cult are separate from the rest of the world and different morality applies.
I’ll leave it to you to figure out which one of these definitions fits Islam better
Edwin1683 says
This foul creature is hideous on the inside and hideous on the outside. I just want to vomit.
salim says
Mohammed was the first person to completely misunderstand islam.
Mathew Solo says
Good One
Wellington says
Any woman, no exception, who defends or, even worse, extols Islam, is a confused or ignorant human being. Yes, not one damn exception.
I maintain I cannot be proven wrong here and I challenge anyone to do so. Any takers out there in Muslim Land or Dhimmi-Compliant Land?
Champ says
Very true, Wellington! Bravo!
And the silence is deafening from our resident mohammedan “rezali mehil”.
gravenimage says
Confused and ignorant are certainly possibilities, Wellington–but in Suad Saleh’s case I think I’d add in *evil*.
Wellington says
Yes, gravenimage,, in many cases evil too. Certainly here.
dlbrand says
Wellington sad: “Any woman, no exception, who defends or, even worse, extols Islam, is a confused or ignorant human being. Yes, not one damn exception.”
Amen, Wellington. And the same of any man.
Jay Boo says
Old school
Child gets caught smoking cigarettes — has to smoke big cigar till nauseous.
Child gets caught drinking beer — has to drink whiskey till nauseous.
Child talks of owning infidel sex slaves — has to look at naked pictures of Hillary and Merkel
Mark Swan says
Just Cruel…He’s just a Child.
I Did Laugh.
gravenimage says
I’m not sure how many remember *this* story, where Suad Saleh was put forth as a “moderate”:
“Mickey Mouse can dismiss his bodyguards; Egyptian cleric says he’s *not* an agent of Satan”
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/09/mickey-mouse-can-dismiss-his-bodyguards-egyptian-cleric-says-hes-not-an-agent-of-satan
Sheikh Mohamed al-Munajid, a cleric who often appears on Saudi television and who is also a former Saudi diplomat in the United States, said last week that mice were “agents of Satan” and should be killed…
However, Suad Saleh, a woman preacher who hosts a popular television programme on fatwas, or religious edicts, told the English-language daily Egyptian Gazette that Munajid’s ruling “tarnishes Islam’s image.”
“An edict should be based on knowledge, logic and reason,” she said.
…
So–saying Mickey Mouse is an agent of Satan makes Islam look bad, but raping Infidel women and keeping them as sex slaves does not.
Yet another Muslim “moderate” who is *anything* but…
Darryl Kerney says
“An edict should be based on knowledge, logic and reason,”
there is not one tiny shred of logic or reason in the entire islamic faith !
and many here likely know the statement (please help me out with the details if you know them) made by a muslim upon burning down one of the world’s biggest libraries at the time (India i think), something like this, if it contains knowledge found in the quran we already have it, whatever else it contains is IRRELEVANT.
again, i can’t remember the details or where i read it but whoever knows about it please post !
it really shows hows they don’t want to know anything other than their “prophet’s” insane rantings.
gravenimage says
You are right, Darryl–Islam is inherently irrational, and openly rejects reason.
As for the incident and quote you cite, they come from the final destruction of the great Library of Alexandria and Caliph Omar. He was quoted as having said:
“If those books are in agreement with the Quran, we have no need of them; and if these are opposed to the Quran, destroy them.”
Certainly, many other Muslim “scholars” have said just the same thing.
Mark Swan says
gravenimage
Been there…let me tell you…a Pack Rat can do a number on a Pick-Up Truck’s
Engine Compartment…You better be into re-wiring…and replacing many parts…
If You ever plan on driving it again…Rodents are little devils…He’s right…Hell yes.
Mike says
And then you wonder why the Israeli Army intends not to lose wars!
With enemies where the university professors sound like that, I’d like to have a couple of nuclear bombs in my back pocket, just in case.
worldcitizen1919 says
The Pharisees and Saducees claimed to KNOW their Book yet sentenced Christ to death.
The Quran does NOT support any of her claims. The Quran permits sex ONLY within marriage. These are some of the verses which support this. HADITHS are NOT the Word of God do NOT trump what the Quran has forbidden.
4:25 And whosoever among you has not the means to marry free, believing women, then [marry] the believing young women among those whom your right hands possess; God knows best your faith, the one of you is as the other, so wed them by the permission of their people, and give unto them their proper bridewealth, as married women, not as fornicators or paramours.
4:27 God desires to relent unto you, but those who follow lusts desire that you go tremendously astray.
5:5 You Shall maintain chastity, not committing adultery, nor taking secret lovers.
The Muftis and professors claim to be knowledgeable yet they are ignorant like the high priests who crucified Christ.
They claim to justify murder now rape. That is NOT from God but from their evil, corrupt selfish desires. The Quran does not support what these ignorant people think.
Jay Boo says
Actually the death and resurrection of Jesus was a fulfillment of prophesy.
http://www.100prophecies.org/page4.htm
worldcitizen1919 says
Regardless of it being a prophecy they were the most leaned of their day and got it wrong using their so called expertise and knowledge just like this so called professor.
Jay Boo says
Actually, the Islamic professor has Islamic teachings exactly correct according top Islamic sources as Robert Spencer clearly shows in references.
worldcitizen1919 says
It all comes down to individual interpretation and who you want to believe.
I don’t accept these people as being knowledgeable about Islam. They are not Prophets speaking on behalf of God. They are self appointed experts.
Unless these people are claiming they have infallible knowledge and are Prophets of God and can prove it I wouldn’t be troubled by their views or interpretations which they are free to have.
The Prophets of God such as Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, Krishna, Baha’u’llah all taught good not evil. People can say what they want but they speak not infallibly and people unlike God make mistakes.
Self appointed experts just speak from the ego not from God.
Angemon says
worldcitizen1919 posted:
“It all comes down to individual interpretation and who you want to believe.
I don’t accept these people as being knowledgeable about Islam. They are not Prophets speaking on behalf of God. They are self appointed experts.”
That’s NOT how things work. But if you want to play that game, so be it: I don’t accept you as being knowledgeable of islam. You’re a self-appointed expert whose opinions don’t reflect, or have any sort of influence over, islamic orthodoxy as it has been taught ever since the time muhammad allegedly lived.
“Unless these people are claiming they have infallible knowledge and are Prophets of God and can prove it I wouldn’t be troubled by their views or interpretations which they are free to have.”
Those people merely point out what islamic orthodoxy has cemented over 14 centuries. Again, right back at you: do you claim to have infallible knowledge regarding what islam teaches and is documented in centuries of tafsir?
“The Prophets of God such as Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, Krishna, Baha’u’llah”
Ah, you’re a bahai – that explains a lot. By any chance, did you used to go by the username “David”?
“People can say what they want but they speak not infallibly and people unlike God make mistakes.”
You don’t get it, do you? The method you’re using to discredit others also discredits you. No, scratch that – it only discredits you. The people you’re trying to discredit actually point to islamic texts and teachings, centuries of interpretations and commentaries, and the example of muhammad. That you arbitrarily refuse to acknowledge them doesn’t make them any less valid. You don’t get to decide what islam is, what scriptures it has and what’s islamic or not. That, by islamic doctrine and tradition, has already been done, and your stance is a death sentence under sharia, no matter how much you protest and state that the death sentence is not islamic – it’s all the same for the sword.
worldcitizen1919 says
When it signed me on automatically it changed my username. Sorry about that.
Islam is spiritually in decline headed for secularism like Turkey for sure.
Try and understand.
I reject evil. I believe in God. The God of love. I don’t accept that God teaches violence or murder or hate and that the Islam that some Muslims follow now is a corrupted counterfeit version not what was actually taught 1400 years ago..
Even the Buddha said a ‘counterfeit Dhamma’ would arise and true Buddhism would disappear.
Baha’u’llah, Baha’is believe, is the Promised Messiah, the future Buddha foretold by Buddha, Christ and all the Prophets of the past of all Faiths and His Voice is the Voice of God. The Authoritative, Infallible Voice of God.
So we believe His knowledge is both authoritative & infallible. His Words are God’s Words and His Statements absolute Truth.
Baha’u’llah confirms that both Muhammad and the Quran are from God.
QURAN
“For it is evident that whoso hath failed to acknowledge the truth of the Qur’án hath in reality failed to acknowledge the truth of the preceding Scriptures.”
Excerpt From: Bahá’u’lláh. “The Kitáb-i-Íqán.” Bahá’í eBooks
MUHAMMAD
Every discerning observer will recognize that in the Dispensation of the Qur’án both the Book and the Cause of Jesus were confirmed. As to the matter of names, Muhammad, Himself, declared: “I am Jesus.” He recognized the truth of the signs, prophecies, and words of Jesus, and testified that they were all of God. In this sense, neither the person of Jesus nor His writings hath differed from that of Muhammad and of His holy Book, inasmuch as both have championed the Cause of God, uttered His praise, and revealed His commandments. Thus it is that Jesus, Himself, declared: “I go away and come again unto you.”
Excerpt From: Bahá’u’lláh. “The Kitáb-i-Íqán.” Bahá’í eBooks
Baha’u’llah welcomes anyone to challenge His Knowledge
“O ye leaders of religion! Who is the man amongst you that can rival Me in vision or insight? Where is he to be found that dareth to claim to be My equal in utterance or wisdom? No, by My Lord, the All-Merciful! All on the earth shall pass away; and this is the face of your Lord, the Almighty, the Well-Beloved.”
Excerpt From: Bahá’u’lláh. “The Kitab-i-Aqdas.” Bahá’í eBooks
Angemon says
We’ve been through this before. That you believe that the hadith are fabrications and that the quran doesn’t say and mean what muslims say it means makes no difference to islamic orthodoxy. If you want to say that as a bahai you reject the hadith, sunnah and sira and you interpret the quran in a different way, then say so. Don’t leave out that you’re not a muslim. The average user on this site knows more about islam than the average person, and if you say that islam doesn’t teach what they know it teaches, chances are they’ll consider you’re lying to whitewash and defend islam and the atrocities committed in its name.
worldcitizen1919 says
Thanks very, very much for being so understanding. No I’m definitely a Baha’i. NOT a Muslim never was and never will be.
Yes we reject Hadiths and Sunnahs and shariah and interpret the Quran differently.
Maybe this will help its from Buddha and He talks about a counterfeit Buddhism arising to replace the real Buddhism. Same name and everything but it won’t reflect the original anymore.
“there is the disappearance of the true Dhamma when a counterfeit of the true Dhamma has arisen in the world.[1]
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn16/sn16.013.than.html
Jay Boo says
I agree that her behavior is wrong behavior.
However she is correct in dating that sex slavery and rape is normative Islam (in time of war).
But, when is a Muslim at war with non-Muslims? — for a ‘good’ Muslim, always
worldcitizen1919 says
You are open minded. I compliment that.
I don’t deny that Muslims have committed atrocities only that the Quran does not permit sex outside marriage and therefore they go against their own Quran by doing these things.
dlbrand says
worldcitizen1919, you stated the following and then some: “it all comes down to individual interpretation and who you want to believe.
“I don’t accept these people as being knowledgeable about Islam. They are not Prophets speaking on behalf of God. They are self appointed experts.”
You stated: ….”The Prophets of God such as Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, Krishna, Baha’u’llah all taught good not evil. People can say what they want but they speak not infallibly and people unlike God make mistakes.
“Self appointed experts just speak from the ego not from God.”
Tell your garbage above to one such as Wafa Sultan:
https://youtu.be/sI8AQ3sGdDg
http://islamexposed.blogspot.com/2016/01/the-voices-cries-pleas-from-victims-of.html
Andy Martin says
Worldcitizen, unfortunately your happy clappy wishful thinking interpretation of the passages quoted above counts for very little when large numbers of other Muslims interpret them to mean they can rape and kill non-Muslim kufir.
Anyway, I think you are basically practising taquiya – you know darn well what your prophet has written, so are claiming your prophet is lying?
If so you’re committing blasphemy and you are a heretic. Mohammed is the expert on Islamic doctrine – not you!
Carolyne says
Worldcitizen1919, did you say that that those Muslims who follow lusts are tremendous ashtrays? Oh, “Astray.” Never mind.
worldcitizen1919 says
Yes astray. Lust is forbidden in the Quran as is companionate marriage, illicit sex, prostitution, rape and sex outside marriage with captured or free women. Other English translations say this clearly.
Darryl Kerney says
worldcitizen1919
the quran may say in some places what you claim, BUT, if you know it, YOU KNOW about ABROGATION, the later verses clearly endorse the rape and killing of infidels and therefore CANCEL the peaceful earlier ones.
and i pointed out earlier, the leader of ISIS has a PH.D in ISLAMIC STUDIES from Iraq University, and he clearly has no problem with jihadists raping whoever they want to.
Jack Diamond says
You lying ass. The verse says if you cannot marry a free believing woman then marry a believing right hand possession (captive, slave). Believing means one who “converts” to Islam (she doesn’t have to believe in her “heart”, just mouth the words, thereby submitting) –you know like Safiyah “converted”so conveniently for Muhammad when he “married” her and took her to his bed the night after murdering her husband (having already earlier murdered most of her family). Do you know the definition of rape is not just physical force but “duress” and coercion? Unlike Safiyah, another very young beautiful captive,
(why were his chosen captives so young and beautiful?) Rayhana bint Zayd, refused the kind offer to convert to Islam, so Muhammad just had sex with her as his concubine. Much as he had sex with his slave girl, Mary the Copt. And allowed all of this for his Companions, evermore. Oh, but these stories are from the horrible lying hadiths and sira that no Muslims believe in or model themselves on…just 99.9%.
Verse 4:24 says very clearly “and all married women are forbidden unto you save those captives whom your right hand possess. It is a decree of Allah for you.” This sanctions rape. The exceptions of those you are forbidden to have sex with are your slaves and captives. So the Qur’an does not ONLY permit sex within marriage, you contemptible liar. Furthermore, given its doctrine of total war against disbelievers, the commands to instill terror in their hearts, of humiliating them and disgracing them, the Qur’anic imperative of hatred and enmity towards them, your Qur’an puts a great big target on both the kuffar and (especially) their women. Evidence of which we get daily (to add to fourteen centuries of evidence).
dlbrand says
Words, assertions of a grossly uninformed fool:
worldcitizen1919 said: “The Quran does NOT support any of her claims. The Quran permits sex ONLY within marriage. These are some of the verses which support this. HADITHS are NOT the Word of God do NOT trump what the Quran has forbidden.”
Wellington says
Agreed, dlbrand. Worldcitizen1919 functions in a land of make believe and I’ve lately heard that even the Red Queen is after him. The Mad Hatter, of course, ceased inviting him to his tea parties long ago.
dlbrand says
Indeed.
Champ says
written to worldcitizen:
“You lying ass.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Exactly. ‘Nuff said …
worldcitizen1919 says
Sorry if I offended you. That wasn’t my intention. I am only trying to clear up misunderstandings between Muslims and Christians that have lasted for centuries.
Isn’t it time we all tried peaceful and conciliatory ways and strive for peace rather than just hating on each other??
I didn’t mean to offend just try and clear up misunderstandings.
Don’t you want to see world peace? I do. I’m tired of all these useless conflicts.
Wellington says
Over 27,000 documented Islamic terrorist attacks worldwide, worldcitizen (btw, I am not, I am an American only and proud of it—–the world citizen stuff is part of the problem, worldcitizen) just since 9/11 and how many Christian terrorist attacks in the name of Christianity during this same time period? And you talk of clearing up misunderstandings? Hope you get my drift here.
worldcitizen1919 says
The killing of anyone is to be condemned.
Until people accept all people as of the one human race this killing will continue.
He’s American. He’s Muslim. It’s human killing human that’s the reality and it needs to stop on both dides.
Cut a person up on an operating table will you find the Muslim or the American??
There’s killing on both sides and there’s hate on both sides.
We have enough humans on this planet to unite and end war and that’s what Baha’is are trying hard to do and we will succeed because light is light dispels darkness.
As Baha’u’llah says
“So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth”
And no matter what people say or think peace and unity will come.
gravenimage says
“worldcitizen1919” wrote:
The Quran does NOT support any of her claims. The Quran permits sex ONLY within marriage. These are some of the verses which support this. HADITHS are NOT the Word of God do NOT trump what the Quran has forbidden.
………………………………
This is, of course, a bald-faced lie. It is *not* just the Hadiths that support the raping of sex slaves, but the Qur’an itself–as the meretricious “worldcitizen1919” well knows.
He hopes we haven’t read the Qur’an ourselves, and are hence not familiar with these Suras:
Qur’an 23:1-6:
The Believers must eventually win through—those who humble themselves in their prayers; who avoid vain talk; who are active in deeds of charity; who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or the captives whom their right hands possess—for they are free from blame.
Qur’an 70:22-30:
…and those who guard their chastity, except with their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess—for they are not to be blamed.
Qur’an 33:50:
O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war …
,,,
All of these clearly note the permissibility of Muslims raping their sex slaves.
More:
4:27 God desires to relent unto you, but those who follow lusts desire that you go tremendously astray.
5:5 You Shall maintain chastity, not committing adultery, nor taking secret lovers.
………………………………
What “worldcitizen1919” hopes we don’t is that that under Islam one can rape sex slaves and still be considered “chaste”. Raping Infidel women is not considered “going astray”. But if a Muslim has a *consensual* relationship outside of marriage he may be stoned to death.
More:
It all comes down to individual interpretation and who you want to believe.
………………………………
Not beyond a point. The Qur’an is quite clear on these matters, and the interpretation of these Suras has been absolutely consistent on these points for *over 1300 years*. Variant interpretation is possible–but not endlessly so.
And note: it is not just that “worldcitizen1919” wants to embrace a fantasy interpretation of these horrors–he insists that *we* pretend Islam doesn’t condone these atrocities, as well. Ultimately, this only benefits Muslim rapists.
More:
The Prophets of God such as Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, Krishna, Baha’u’llah all taught good not evil. People can say what they want but they speak not infallibly and people unlike God make mistakes.
………………………………
Again, he is flogging the idea that the foul warlord, slaver, caravan-raider, pedophile, rapist, and mass murderer Muhammad “taught good”–when *nothing* could be further from the truth.
More:
Islam is spiritually in decline headed for secularism like Turkey for sure.
………………………………
What crap. Turkey has been re-Islamizing for *decades*, and increasingly so under Erdogan, as everyone here is well aware of.
More:
Try and understand.
I reject evil. I believe in God. The God of love. I don’t accept that God teaches violence or murder or hate and that the Islam that some Muslims follow now is a corrupted counterfeit version not what was actually taught 1400 years ago..
………………………………
Unfortunately, Islam is *just* the same now as it was under the vicious “Prophet”.
More:
Baha’u’llah confirms that both Muhammad and the Quran are from God.
………………………………
Baha’i developed in Muslim Iran, and Baha’i hoped this dhimmitude would save them from Muslim savagery. It hasn’t done much good–Baha’i are terribly persecuted there, and Baha’i have had to headquarter in civilized Israel.
More:
MUHAMMAD
Every discerning observer will recognize that in the Dispensation of the Qur’án both the Book and the Cause of Jesus were confirmed. As to the matter of names, Muhammad, Himself, declared: “I am Jesus.”…
………………………………
Of course, Muhammed was *nothing* like Jesus. Jesus was not a war lord, slaver, rapist, pedophile, or mass murderer–nor was Muhammed a healer, peacemaker, or savior.
Yet more:
Sorry if I offended you. That wasn’t my intention. I am only trying to clear up misunderstandings between Muslims and Christians that have lasted for centuries.
Isn’t it time we all tried peaceful and conciliatory ways and strive for peace rather than just hating on each other??
I didn’t mean to offend just try and clear up misunderstandings.
Don’t you want to see world peace? I do. I’m tired of all these useless conflicts.
………………………………
Muslims *do not* consider these conflicts useless–Islam is spread by the sword.
Christians in the past did not “misunderstand” Islam conquest–they just resisted it or *fell to it*.
What “worldcitizen1919” means is that if we believe in a fantasy Islam that we are unlikely to defend ourselves against the hideous depredations of Islam like those being openly endorsed by Islam’s greatest seat of learning Al-Azhar.
worldcitizen1919 says
Right hand in other translations says rightfully possess and in others marriage. I defer to marriage as to what is meant as the Quran condemns lust.
Next. Shariah law is on its deathbed. The recent revivals are a last ditch effort to save it but we Baha’is believe it will disappear.
Baha’is believe in just wars to protect the innocent so it is necessary to fight where safety is threatened.
Baha’is believe in Muhammad but have a different interpretation of the Quran and do not recognise Hadiths or shariah law.
We understand the laws of the Quran were for 1400 years ago and are not for this century and age and will die out and be replaced by humanitarian laws.
But thanks for your taking the time to respond. I’m learning a lot from being constantly criticised.
It’s a struggle but I still believe the majority of the people in the world are good not evil and can come together and have peace one day.
In the meantime we must eliminate extremism.
gravenimage says
“worldcitizen1919”
Right hand in other translations says rightfully possess and in others marriage. I defer to marriage as to what is meant as the Quran condemns lust.
……………………………..
“Rightfully possess” means to own under Islamic law. That is how slaves taken as booty in the course of Jihad works for Muslims.
As for “right hand possesses” meaning “marriage”–this makes absolutely no sense. In the very Sura you cited, Qur’an 4:25, it says:
“And whosoever among you has not the means to marry free, believing women, then [marry] the believing young women among those whom your right hands possess…”
It would not make sense to tell Muslims to marry those they are already married to.
As for the Qur’an ‘condemning lust’, this is pretty questionable. Islam only condemns certain unlawful sex *acts*, such as consensual pre-marital sex–not the raping of captives and sex slaves.
More:
Next. Shariah law is on its deathbed. The recent revivals are a last ditch effort to save it but we Baha’is believe it will disappear.
……………………………..
This is very like saying Fascism was on its deathbed as Nazis were forging unopposed across Europe in 1940…
More:
Baha’is believe in just wars to protect the innocent so it is necessary to fight where safety is threatened.
……………………………..
That’s nice. But if–as you would like–Infidels are prevented from recognizing the threat of Islam, this makes it rather difficult, no?
More:
Baha’is believe in Muhammad but have a different interpretation of the Quran and do not recognise Hadiths or shariah law.
……………………………..
Unfortunately, pious Muslims are enslaving and murdering us on the basis of the Qur’an and the model of Muhammed.
They don’t give a fig for your kinder, gentler whitewash of the Qur’an and the “Prophet”–even though it benefits them just as whitewash from oppressed Ahmadis does.
Disturbingly, there are all too many desperate to believe that Islam *can’t* be as horrific as it truly is–just as many refused to believe the first reports of the existence of the death camps.
More:
We understand the laws of the Quran were for 1400 years ago and are not for this century and age and will die out and be replaced by humanitarian laws.
……………………………..
I’m afraid this makes *no sense*. If there is nothing inhumane in the Qur’an, then why would it need to be replaced by humanitarian laws?
How can you not see that this is rationally inconsistent?
More:
But thanks for your taking the time to respond. I’m learning a lot from being constantly criticised.
……………………………..
Would that this were true–instead, you just keep trotting out the same apologia.
More:
It’s a struggle but I still believe the majority of the people in the world are good not evil and can come together and have peace one day.
……………………………..
This may well be true–I hope it is. But surely those whose creed allows the rape of sex slaves taken in war would not have an interest in coming together and making peace. Yet you want us to pretend this does not exist.
It is Islam that is warring against the rest of the world.
More:
In the meantime we must eliminate extremism.
……………………………..
This is not “extremism”–it is normative Islam. And it will not disappear through our pretending it does not exist.
Edwin1683 says
How can you say the Quran condemns lust when it describes Paradise as a place where the righteous will be rewarded by being able to deflower virgins for eternity?
worldcitizen1919 says
That is just a metaphor and not a literal meaning. Things like that are in the Bible also like when it says the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light.
Not all these things are meant to be taken literally.
Edwin1683 says
By their metaphors shall ye know them.
gravenimage says
Edwin1683 wrote:
How can you say the Quran condemns lust when it describes Paradise as a place where the righteous will be rewarded by being able to deflower virgins for eternity?
“worldcitizen1919” wrote:
That is just a metaphor and not a literal meaning.
………………………………
Really? Why isn’t “worldcitizen1919″ out convincing pious Muslim suicide bombers that they’re all wrong about those 72 dark-eyed virgins waiting for them after they murder Infidels?
Why isn’t he trying to convince this scholar at Al-Azhar that she is wrong about Muslims being able to have Infidel sex slaves under Islam?
But of course he would *never* do that. Instead, he is here whitewashing the foul creed of Islam to *its victims”.
worldcitizen1919 says
Dear friend,
very sorry.
Buraq says
And all of this said by a clown with a face like the antidote to Viagra.
Brit says
There is plenty to criticize this woman for without resorting to low misogynistic personal insults.
Angemon says
Brit posted:
“There is plenty to criticize this woman for without resorting to low misogynistic personal insults.”
Considering a woman to be ugly is not misogyny. If you want to play that game, I’ll say that you’re not criticizing anything she said because she’s a woman.
It’s almost as if you’re more concerned about users here calling an unattractive woman ugly than with said woman defending rape of women by men by divinely sanctioning it. Modern feminism in a nutshell… Good to see you have your priorities straight!
Edwin1683 says
People who are hateful and loathesome on the inside naturally tend to attract personal insults, especially if they’re butt-ugly to boot. That does not make it misogyny.
And in this case, I’d say that the misogyny is all on the part of the one who’s advocating the raping.
Donovan Nuera says
Back in 1936 when Harvard College celebrated its Tricentennial, the ceremony started with an honorary procession of all ancient (and still open) universities from all over the world. The oldest “university” was given the honor of leading the academic procession. Al-Azhar, having been founded in 970, was given that position. The mufti was followed by the presidents of Sorbonne, Padua, Bologna, Oxford, Cambridge, etc..
I hope to God that al-Azhar is blacklisted (or shuttered) by the time 2036 rolls around. Then again, if things continue to spin into multi-culti dhimmihood, they will lead the procession in front of the “re-purposed” Memorial Mosque (after having demolished the very exquisite memorials to Harvard men who had perished in WWI and WWII) inside Memorial Church and “black robes” will be worn on days aside from Commencement and Class Day by some of the (female) students…..if they are still allowed to matriculate…
mortimer says
This is a good article to show to argumentative Muslims to ask them if they 1) agree Muslims males may rape disbelieving women and 2) if they think Sharia law is wrong in the matter of raping disbelieving women.
somehistory says
Misery loves company.
Since there is no *love* to be found in islam, not from the lowest of the low to those who are looked *up* to as scholars and leaders, her misery is not *loving* the company she sees in women being raped, but she is **lusting** for company.
Hideous creachture…(intentional misspelling of creature)…as the loving way of a normal woman would be to feel pain for other women being raped by those hideous, unclean, despicable monsters she calls *men.*
But she wants the rapes to happen…she lusts for it, encouraging it, relishing the idea of it.
A useful tool of satan the devil.
mortimer says
Videos of sheikhs authorizing rape
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj-Bx4SYufA
MEMRI-Female Muslim “professor” preaches rapes of non-Muslims as slaves, Egypt. Sep 12, 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyKLIne2pVw
MEMRI-Muslim imam explains Islamic invasion, war booty, and slave market
Muslim imam Abu Ishaq Al Heweny explains Islamic invasion, war booty, and slave market.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UGCkGavy8M
BPublished on Oct 16, 2014
British Islamist Mizanur Rahman (a.k.a. Abu Baraa) came out in defense of the Islamic State. According to Abu Baraa, non-Muslims would benefit from the jizya poll tax, to be paid once they live under the Caliphate. The possession of slavegirls would also be permissible, he said.
gravenimage says
Thanks for those links, Mortimer–important to note that this professor’s ideas here are *not* a fringe opinion, but are mainstream Islam.
And here’s Islam Q & A, the most widely read Islamic site in the English language:
“10382: Ruling on having intercourse with a slave woman when one has a wife”
https://islamqa.info/en/10382
“Praise be to Allaah.
“Islam allows a man to have intercourse with his slave woman, whether he has a wife or wives or he is not married…
“This is indicated by the Qur’aan and Sunnah, and this was done by the Prophets…
“Our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) also did that, as did the Sahaabah, the righteous and the scholars. The scholars are unanimously agreed on that and it is not permissible for anyone to regard it as haraam or to forbid it. Whoever regards that as haraam is a sinner who is going against the consensus of the scholars…
“The wife has no right to object to her husband owning female slaves or to his having intercourse with them.
“And Allaah knows best.”
How clear *is this*? If anyone has a moral problem with Muslims raping sex slaves, then he is regarded as a *sinner*.
worldcitizen1919 says
25:17. On the Day when He gathers them, and what they worshiped besides God, He will say, “Was it you who misled these servants of Mine, or was it they who lost the way?”
25:30. And the Messenger will say, “My Lord, my people have abandoned this Quran.”
Pity how Muslims are abandoning their Quran and exalting scholars and Hadiths above the Word of God.
gravenimage says
“worldcitizen1919” has been shown several times here that raping sex slaves *is* in the Qur’an. Yet he cannot allow himself to believe it–and worse, he feels he cannot allow the victims of Islam to understand it, either.
The ‘misleading’ referred to in Qur’an 25:17 is not raping or otherwise abusing unbelievers.
In fact, Qur’an 25:18-19 are about the *punishment* of unbelievers, as “worldcitizen1919” must surely know:
They will say, “Exalted are You! It was not for us to take besides You any allies. But You provided comforts for them and their fathers until they forgot the message and became a people ruined.”
So they will deny you, disbelievers, in what you say, and you cannot avert punishment or find] help. And whoever commits injustice among you – We will make him taste a great punishment.
…
In other words, Jews and Christians *deserve* to be punished by Muslims.
worldcitizen1919 says
Thank you for your comment. You are right to condemn rape and all forms of violence.
The Quran doesn’t support rape falsified Hadiths do which are not the Word of God and Muslims it is said will be brought to account for following fabricated Hadiths instead of the Quran.
The Umayyids and Abbasids used Hadiths try and legitimise their conquests which were purely for wealth and power. Now Islam is stuck with these violent Hadiths. The only way is to burn them all but there is no central authority in Islam so that will take time.
4:25 And whosoever among you has not the means to marry free, believing women, then [marry] the believing young women among those whom your right hands possess; God knows best your faith, the one of you is as the other, so wed them by the permission of their people, and give unto them their proper bridewealth, as married women, not as fornicators or paramours.
4:27 God desires to relent unto you, but those who follow lusts desire that you go tremendously astray.
5:5 You Shall maintain chastity, not committing adultery, nor taking secret lovers.
gravenimage says
And the willful denial continues…
Nimrod says
A number of things to notice about the video that haven’t been mentioned:
– She makes a big point of saying that slaves have to be captured in jihad, they can’t just be purchased from Southeast Asia or something. Thus she tries to claim moral superiority: only Muslim jihad slavery is legitimate whereas other “disorderly” slavery is immoral and haram. She fails to address the issue of whether or not there are any legitimate jihads going on in Southeast Asia or how to resolve the issue of what is or isn’t a legitimate jihad according to various Muslims.
– She tries to claim that jihad is only being waged against Israel because they “plundered land” even though Islam says that Muslims should always plunder the land of infidels whenever possible. So, plundering land is only wrong in Islam when infidels do it, or when Muslims plunder the land of true Muslims, and she intentionally avoids this issue.
Of course none of this negates the key points that slavery is still halal according to Islam when done according to Islamic rules, and that Muslims are permitted to violate infidels in all manner of ways especially when there is a jihad. Not surprisingly, there is always a jihad any time Muslims wish to violate non-Muslims.
Tribalism is normalized and reinforced by Islam but of course only one “tribe”, the Muslims, have al’lah (“the god”) on their side thus only that one tribe can be moral even when they are victimizing and violating the other tribes.
How long will it take the ignorant leftist orthodox academics to figure out that this is tribal warfare and not class struggle?
Darryl Kerney says
nimrod, well said, and,
as far as i can determine, jihad or holy war is to be waged in order to make islam worldwide, so, by that definition, it has been in place since the 7th century because the goal has not yet been reached. so as you said “there is always a jihad any time Muslims wish to violate non-Muslims”, if i’m not mistaken jihad has NEVER been “not in effect” since the days of mohaMAD. as long as there is ANYWHERE that islam does not rule, jihad is in effect, thereby “justifying” rape, murder and jizya until the day islam controls all the world and “peace” will be attained, but of course then they will still fight and kill each other over differences of opinion on interpretation of allah’s will and kill anyone who dares to disagree, this much is evident, the claim that there will be peace when religion is only for allah is clearly delusional, they’ve been fighting each other in places where it pretty much is already with no resolution in sight. the only rational conclusion is that islam is a religion of violence, intolerance, hatred, and INSANITY.
ballotcode says
Even those without a “religious” background or belief system in place have higher moral guidance then that that comes from Mohamedism.
It seems as though the most evil outcome is what Mohamedism promotes.
Lie, cheat, steal, rape, murder… All ok in Mohamedism.
The worst and most base human behavior is condensed in Mohamedism.
dlbrand says
“Female al-Azhar prof. asserts: Allah allows Muslims to rape non-Muslim women”
Well of course she does, because that is precisely what the “Book of Allah” allows.
And that in the “Book of Allah” is the Islam that fools and cowards of realities of facts on Islam and its adherents, defend, and beg we join them in their shameless elected blindness to the realities of Islam and those who hold that faith sacred.
Rob says
‘For over a thousand years, Al-Azhar has stood as a beacon of Islamic learning; and for over a century, Cairo University has been a source of Egypt’s advancement. And together, you represent the harmony between tradition and progress. I’m grateful for your hospitality, and the hospitality of the people of Egypt’.
This is an extract from the FIRST para of Obama’s speech at Al-Azhar, where this crone of a professor teaches.
Is this what you mean Mr Obama by ‘beacon of Islamic learning’?
Is this the ‘harmony between tradition and progress’?
Or, does this have nothing to do with Islam?
gravenimage says
Good point, Rob. Rulings on the permissibility of raping Infidel sex slaves is a key part of what Obama must see as the “beacon of Islamic learning”. *Ugh*.
Steve says
Daily now we see the evils of Islamists on TV and it gets worse each subsequent day – are these the end of days? Think about it – go back 5 years or so and terrorism was never a nightly event on the news. The evil of Islam is spreading fast – when are world leaders going to face this global crisis and do something or are they just going to continue to be apologists and excuse makers for this scourge? Think about it – we’ve got a female Muslim academic advocating rape!? Will it ever end?
gravenimage says
Yes–even in the MSM, which often tries to avoid or downplay these stories, the newspapers and cable news is often just one Muslim atrocity after another.
How long can the widespread denial last?
LR says
Well, I would like to tell her, “Your ‘Allah’, is a fictitious, F******, piece of garbage ass****, who was birthed out of Mohammed’s sick, mysoginistic Id. And any person who thinks raping a woman is ‘ok’, is a very deranged, sick individual”.
There continues to be something very wrong in so many people who still think it’s OK to harm another human being just because it says it’s OK in some ‘Holy book’.
Here is a link to an antidote to pathetic women like the above. We could use several million more, it would be a start…
https://www.ted.com/talks/kimberley_motley_how_i_defend_the_rule_of_law/transcript?language=en#t-465894
JM says
You cant tell me that a merciful God would allow this kind of thing this is 2016 not 700 I guess as long as it is not happening to them they agree with it! Arab women are some of the Most brutal women on earth they treat their servants worse than a dog! yet they they Lie about it so what is that In Gods eyes the worst thing “Sin” is to be a liar that makes you the same as the Devil! the ultimate Liar! so I proclaim to be an expert but I believe none of the Holy book proclaim treating your servants like this they are usually saying the opposite to treat like same your Family! so say what you want its just an excuse to live like animal and one of the indicators of the down fall of a society is no respect for the Old,Young, Servants, Dead, Law, Faith, Self! So I have this to say if I respect your beliefs and culture I must demand that you respect mine then there’s nothing to fight about!
BC says
Note how Islam is just a religion for men.
Men can rape captives
Men are always less guilty if they rape any woman as she is the temptress (since Eden)
Men are spared while women are stoned
Men can beat their wives
Men are the controllers of women
Men can kill their own children and wives for apostasy in many Islamic countries.
Men carry out the wishes of ‘Allah’
Men can dress as they wish but women must be covered (not to tempt men)
And of course all the clerics are MEN
Why any woman with any kind of intelligence would convert to Islam is a mystery to me.
allahu snackbar says
When Muhammad invented Islam he was sure to make all the rules benefit him so he could do whatever he wanted. The rules were also meant to attract other men to give him more followers. It was made by men, for men.
worldcitizen1919 says
What we need now is a woman’s religion!!!!!!
Wellington says
It seems, worldcitizen, that you suffer not only from a blindness about Mohammed and the Koran but that you also suffer from an exceedingly bad case of perpetual gooeyness.
worldcitizen1919 says
Only having a light hearted joke about saying it was a man’s religion. Sorry if I offended.
I thought Jihad Watch promoted being tolerant. I’m being treated anything but.
Just a joke. No offense intended. SORRY.
TJFreedomjihad says
Why do women marry murderers in prisons whom they’ve never met before, and other obvious dangerous ones? islam no difference, all crime gang members ordered to hate and to murder! What’s the difference between opportunity unfinished and commission, if under absolute imaginary ‘son of Sam’ ‘divine absolute obligation? There is no ‘no’ to al, that’s blasphemy, shirk, or such, depending. Death penalty, mostly. Pretty much same as ‘no’ to the mafia godfather, if you are a soldier of mafia.
A STATE OF LUNACY, SHEER MADNESS HAS BESET THIS WORLD…..See a Return to Dachau at
http://gatesofvienna.net/2016/01/return-to-dachau/#more-38488
Germany and EU, all unimaginable people now, they make no sense, none at all, Austria buying guns at 4 times normal rate, now. That makes sense.
CHRIST – GOD, ACTUALLY DOES EXPECT US TO DEFEND OURSELVES, BY BATTLE, FROM OUR ENEMIES!!!! JUST AS HE EXPECTS US TO SOW, AND HARVEST, TOO !!!!
”BLESSED BE THE LORD, MY ROCK, WHO TRAINS MY HANDS FOR WAR, AND MY FINGERS FOR BATTLE” –Psalm 144:1
THEN SAID HE UNTO THEM, “BUT NOW, HE THAT HATH A PURSE, LET HIM TAKE IT AND LIKEWISE HIS PACK; AND HE THAT HATH NO SWORD, LET HIM SELL HIS GARMENT AND BUY ONE. — Luke 22:36 KJV, 21C [Clearly, God is admonishing to arm oneself with a rifle, or pistol, sword and dagger, to reach out and touch an enemy, as ‘with a sword’, for travel, let alone home palace, and become trained in defense……..
WHEN A STRONG MAN, FULLY ARMED, GUARDS HIS OWN PALACE, HIS GOODS ARE SAFE; –Luke 11:21
That makes sense…….Yes, of course women too!!!
(Well, Maybe not the ones who marry murderers in prison, though!!) Ya know, telling right from wrong, being able to, sanity?
Does the Stockholm “captive identifying with the perpetrator syndrome”, apply to the problem of being trapped on the same planet? At how far a distance? Nicolai Sennels, please reply? The asylum needs your advice!! Is that why women, men, are going mad?
Steve says
Of course what you said was a joke – anyone who thought otherwise is too precious to comment – lighten up and face the real problem and don’t indulge in friendly fire!
worldcitizen1919 says
So it’s safe to come out??
Thing is you know I’m horrified a professor would talk publicly in favour of rape if it’s true.
Was that a real article because I know there’s websites that send out false news for ‘entertainment purposes’ and they put a disclaimer at the bottom.
Can this article be verified? I’ll do some checking.
A lot of websites going with this story are quoting Zee News and there doesn’t appear to be anyone else running with it like CNN or FOX or BBC.
All that is says is a female Islamic professor!! Who?? Jihad Watch refers to Zeenews also.
This has the hallmark of a click baiting story. No newsworthy websites are running with it at all.
gravenimage says
“worldcitizen1919” wrote:
All that is says is a female Islamic professor!! Who?? Jihad Watch refers to Zeenews also.
…………………………….
I’m afraid this is not true at all. Both the article and the video from Memri clearly identify this professor as Suad Saleh.
It is widely known that she is a professor at Al Azhar–there is nothing at all controversial about this.
And the above piece was aired on Al-Hayat TV in Egypt on September 12, 2014.
Even this Muslim supremacist site which bemoans the “Islamophobia” of Jihad Watch and tries to downplay the importance of this Al Azhar ruling does not pretend that it didn’t happen–as “worldcitizen1919” is trying to imply:
“Text and context: How a 16-month-old video clip is today’s ‘breaking news’”
https://sabrangindia.in/article/text-and-context-how-16-month-old-video-clip-today%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%98breaking-news%E2%80%99
worldcitizen1919 says
As I said it’s appalling for a professor to come out and say this and I denounce such statements.
But because she is a professor or so called professor it doesn’t make her infallible. She us using Hadiths against the Quran one someone is because the translations all say marriage must take place. Remember if one verse states marriage then it applies to all Ither verses as well. The Quran says it is not inconsistent.
Again, the interpretation is WRONG as they are also using Hadiths which are NOT the Word of God to support this claim. Hadiths do not trump the Qyran which us what many do.
Marriage is enjoined NOT illicit sex. These are 3 different translations. I’m not wasting anymore time on this because it’s abundantly clear. If you don’t want to see and shut your days I can’t do anything. That’s your choice. The professor seems to be using Hadiths to trump the Quran which is the Word of God.
4:25 Whoever of you cannot afford to marry the acknowledging independent women, then from those young women whom you have contractual rights. God is more aware of your faith; you are equal to one another. You shall marry them with the permission of their family and give them their wage in kindness, to be protected, not for illicit sex or for taking lovers.
[4:25] Those among you who cannot afford to marry free believing women, may marry believing slave women. GOD knows best about your belief, and you are equal to one another, as far as belief is concerned. You shall obtain permission from their guardians before you marry them, and pay them their due dowry equitably.
004.025 Y: If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess: And Allah hath full knowledge about your faith. Ye are one from another: Wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dowers, according to what is reasonable:
Andy Martin says
So it’s safe to come out??
Come out as what world citizen?
Leaving aside your answer to this question, because I don’t think you’re capable of giving a truthful answer to any question, regarding your pathetic attempts to cover up this appalling news story
“Thing is you know I’m horrified a professor would talk publicly in favour of rape if it’s true.
I’ll bet you are.
Was that a real article because I know there’s websites that send out false news for ‘entertainment purposes’ and they put a disclaimer at the bottom.
Can this article be verified? I’ll do some checking.”
How did your checking go?
I have two links that identify her a clearly being who she is.
mondediplo.com/2005/09/12woman
wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09CAIRO1767_a.html.webloc
The ‘Memri’ news channel is apparently a “non-profit press monitoring and analysis organisation.”
I’d hazard a guess they’re funded by people with deep pockets, probably Saudi Arabia.
This story going viral is creating such a shit storm that it’s likely the mainstream news media will have to publish it, but I’m not holding my breath.
If on the other hand it turns out to be “false news for entertainment purposes,” then I will stand corrected.
worldcitizen1919 says
Sorry about spelling errors my wrong.
When the Quran clearly says to marry those whom your right hand possess, but those with malicious intent only show translations which don’t show the word ‘marry’ it suggests manipulation.
gravenimage says
“worldcitizen1919” wrote:
As I said it’s appalling for a professor to come out and say this and I denounce such statements.
But because she is a professor or so called professor it doesn’t make her infallible.
……………………….
Al Azhar is the seat of Sunni learning. Trying to marginalize Suad Saleh does not hold water. Many other Muslim scholars have affirmed the keeping of slaves and rape of sex slaves–as Mr. Spencer notes–including others at Al-Azhar.
More:
‘
She us using Hadiths against the Quran one someone is because the translations all say marriage must take place. Remember if one verse states marriage then it applies to all Ither verses as well. The Quran says it is not inconsistent.
……………………….
This is obviously false–it is not as though the rape of sex slaves is only in the Hadith. (Never mind that no orthodox Muslims reject the Hadith–this is a Baha’i assertion).
But it matter not at all here, since this is in the Qur’an as well.I myself have cited Qur’an 23:1-6, Qur’an 70:22-30, and Qur’an 33:50. “worldcitizen1919” has assiduously ignored these Suras in the hope that we will, as well.
More:
Again, the interpretation is WRONG as they are also using Hadiths which are NOT the Word of God to support this claim. Hadiths do not trump the Qyran (sic) which us what many do (?).
……………………….
In all but a very few cases, the Hadith and Qur’an support each other. They certainly do in this case.
More:
Marriage is enjoined NOT illicit sex. These are 3 different translations. I’m not wasting anymore time on this because it’s abundantly clear. If you don’t want to see and shut your days (sic) I can’t do anything. That’s your choice. The professor seems to be using Hadiths to trump the Quran which is the Word of God.
4:25 Whoever of you cannot afford to marry the acknowledging independent women, then from those young women whom you have contractual rights. God is more aware of your faith; you are equal to one another. You shall marry them with the permission of their family and give them their wage in kindness, to be protected, not for illicit sex or for taking lovers.
And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess. [This is] the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are [all others] beyond these, [provided] that you seek them [in marriage] with [gifts from] your property, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse. So for whatever you enjoy [of marriage] from them, give them their due compensation as an obligation. And there is no blame upon you for what you mutually agree to beyond the obligation. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.
004.025 Y: If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess: And Allah hath full knowledge about your faith. Ye are one from another: Wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dowers, according to what is reasonable:
……………………….
Consider what this is saying–that these are *not* “free believing women”–in other words, they are *Infidel slave women*.
And “And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess” means that Muslims can ignore the marriages of women if they are their slaves. That is, an Infidel woman married to an Infidel has her marriage voided, and she can be sold off to any Muslim..
We see Muslims doing just his in the Islamic State today.
More:
Sorry about spelling errors my wrong.
When the Quran clearly says to marry those whom your right hand possess, but those with malicious intent only show translations which don’t show the word ‘marry’ it suggests manipulation.
……………………….
Firstly, it has been shown here over and over again that this is (not* just about marriage, but allows Muslims to rape their sex slaves.
But consider what “worldcitizen1919’s” emphasis on marriage means here–even if his false assertions *were* correct.
The Sura he cites refers to Muslims marrying slaves–a slave is by definition not free to make such a decision. Add in the fact of forced marriage and child marriage in Islam–as well as its invalidating the existing marriages of Infidel women–and we see that this is still *extraordinarily ugly*.
Can he explain how forced marriage–given the Muslim assertion that a wife *cannot* refuse demands for sex–are different from rape?
I rather doubt he will even try…
I know I don’t want to be the “right-hand possession” of any Muslim–nor do I want this for any other woman. Can “worldcitizen1919” tell us why this is a good thing?
worldcitizen1919 says
The Quran clearly forbids forced marriage as in the Suras it states consent must be obtained from parents and guardians. Try and obtain a copy of the Covenants of Muhammad to the Christians in Amazon. That’s the real religion of Islam not Isis those who are promoting these violent hateful sexists attitudes.
What Muslims follow due to Hadiths whic do not trump the Quran is a different thing.
Domestic violence, rape and paedophilia are not unique to Islam and occurred since the dawn of man.
That people try and use religion to justify murder, rape and violence etc shows how morally and spiritually sick the world is to even believe it.
That’s why Baha’is are told Hadiths are not authentic because there are too many fabricated lies mixed in together created solely by the enemies of Islam, like the Umayyaads and Abbasids whose one aim was to conquer for wealth and power using false Hadiths and out of context quotes from the Quran to do it.
People are easily misled because they believe anything a popular figure tells them instead of finding out the truth themselves.
Again. neither Muhammad nor the Quran are guilty of any of these crimes, criminals are guilty who try and use Islam particularly Hadiths to justify their evil deeds.
Islam needs to burn all these violent sexist Hadiths as they have no place in any religion.
gravenimage says
And the denial never stops…
worldcitizen1919 says
Questioning and verifying is important so we are not manipulated and brainwashed.
All the Prophets confirm Muhammad and the Quran are from God.
If you think you are above God and Christ and the Bible then announce it and show from the Bible and Torah where Muhammad is false.
I can produce evidence that both Jesus and the Old Testament prophesied Muhammad but as you feel you are already above all these Prophets and you have infallible knowledge that Muhammad and the Quran are false then produce it and I will produce my evidence and let’s compare????
gravenimage says
“worldcitizen1919” wrote:
Questioning and verifying is important so we are not manipulated and brainwashed.
All the Prophets confirm Muhammad and the Quran are from God.
If you think you are above God and Christ and the Bible then announce it and show from the Bible and Torah where Muhammad is false.
………………………………….
I suppose “worldcitizen1919” has finally run out of Qur’anic Suras he can falsely claim oppose the abuse of women, so now he stoops to claiming that anyone who opposes the warlord, rapist, slaver, pedophile, and mass murderer Muhammad is trying to place themselves “above God”.
Good grief.
More:
I can produce evidence that both Jesus and the Old Testament prophesied Muhammad but as you feel you are already above all these Prophets and you have infallible knowledge that Muhammad and the Quran are false then produce it and I will produce my evidence and let’s compare????
………………………………….
Since the Qur’an claims that the Torah and Bible–or “Tawrat” and the “Injil”–have been falsified by Jews and Christians, one might wonder why “worldcitizen1919” would care what they say.
But this is actually not uncommon–there is a small cottage industry in Muslims claiming that Muhammed was foretold in the Torah and Bible–I suppose Muslims realize that the foul “Prophet” needs all the ‘legitimizing’ he can get.
In fact, this dates back the Qur’an itself:
Qur’an 46:10:
“Say: Have you considered if it is from Allah, and you disbelieve in it, and a witness from among the Children of Israel has borne witness of one like him, so he believed, while you are big with pride? Surely Allah doesn’t guide the wrongdoing people.”
This has been claimed by Muslims to be a reference to Deuteronomy 18:18:
“I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.”
This doesn’t quite work, though, since Deuteronomy 18:17 makes clear that this prophet is a “fellow Israelite”. Muhammed would never consider being a “filthy Jew”!
Qur’an 7:157 reads: “Those who follow the Apostle, the illiterate prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel…”. This is pretty nonspecific–but considering how wrong they got Deuteronomy, this should not surprise.
Qur’an 61:6 reads: And mention when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, “O children of Israel, indeed I am the apostle of Allah to you confirming what came before me of the Torah and bringing Good Tidings of an Apostle to come after me, whose name I praise.”
Unfortunately, this is the Islamic “Jesus”–“Isa”–and the Christian Jesus never said such a thing. You will not find this in the Bible at all. And notice that the reference to the Torah is again nonspecific.
Qur’an 2:12 mentions Abraham–really, the Muslim “Ibrahim”–and Ishmael, who are building the Ka’abah and have this to say: “Our Lord, accept [this] from us. Indeed You are the Hearing, the Knowing. Our Lord, and make us Muslims in submission to You and from our descendants a Muslim nation in submission to You. And show us our rites and accept our repentance. Indeed, You are the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful. Our Lord, and send among them an Apostle from themselves who will recite to them Your verses and teach them the Book and wisdom and purify them. Indeed, You are the Exalted in Might, the Wise.”
Unfortunately, this plea to Allah isn’t in the Torah either.
This covers most of what Muslims usually pull out when making these claims.
“worldcitizen1919” can let me know if I missed anything…
Of course, if he is instead referring to Biblical passages such as Matthew 7:15, which reads “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves” then I might agree.
But for one thing: the “Prophet” Muhammed has never appeared in sheep’s clothing, but from almost the beginning of his career as the vicious thug that he was.
worldcitizen1919 says
Very good.
Firstly, the Quran doesn’t mean the actual words were defaced because the Bible had spread to many lands. Baha’u’llah explains exactly what the Quran meant.
““Nay, rather, by corruption of the text is meant that in which all Muslim divines are engaged today, that is the interpretation of God’s holy Book in accordance with their idle imaginings and vain desires. And as the Jews, in the time of Muhammad, interpreted those verses of the Pentateuch, that referred to His Manifestation, after their own fancy, and refused to be satisfied with His holy utterance, the charge of “perverting” the text was therefore pronounced against them”
Excerpt From: Bahá’u’lláh. “The Book of Certitude
So the Bible is not corrupt only the interpretations by Jews and Chrustians are corrupt.
(Cont’d)
worldcitizen1919 says
Thanks for replying and being so patient.
This is just one prophecy in the Bible that foretells Moses, Jesus, Muhammad and Baha’u’llah in one sweep.
DEU 33.2 And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand [went] a fiery law for them.
He came from Sinai, stir and Paran
Seir is a locality near Nazareth the birth place of Christ
https://sites.google.com/site/placesornames/nazareth-history-dead-sea-scrolls-collections
Strong’s Concordance
Paran, a desert of Arabia: —
Paran = “place of caverns”
Muhammad had his Revelation from the Angel Gabriel in a cave in Mt Paran Strong’s lists Paran as a ‘desert in Arabia’ and ‘place of caverns’
Other references in the Bible regarding Muhammad according to the Baha’i Faith
References in the Bible to ‘Mt. Paran’ and ‘Paraclete’ refer to Muhammad’s Revelation: Deuteronomy 33:2, Genesis 21:21, Numbers 12:16, Numbers 13:3.
(Lights if Guidance)
worldcitizen1919 says
Correction should read:
He (The Lord) came from Sinai, Seir and Paran
Remember it’s says the LORD came to these places. Which means Moses, Christ and Muhammad were all the LORD. Only by different outward names.
worldcitizen1919 says
Also it’s unfair to blame the Quran by false associating verses to each terrorist incident.
Whenever an incident occurs a quote from the Quran is attached. In every case the Quote is either out of context or an incomplete translation (deliberately chosen to mislead) or both.
For instance the English translation which doesn’t show the word ‘marriage’ is used to infer rape. However in many English translations of the Quran it clearly states sex is only permissible within marriage and when the Quran says it in one verse it applies to all other references also.
Again ‘take not Christians and Jews for ‘friends’. WRONG. The proper translation is ‘allies meaning milititary, political and moral allies not personal friendships. Muslims can marry Christians.
Blame the terrorists but the Quran doesn’t support these vile assertions and acts. Hadiths do but they are not the word of God.
Think about it! If rape and murder were really taught by the Quran this website would not need to be trying to distort the Quran’s verses by placing a quote under every terrorist article.
This website will show 2:191 ‘kill them wherever you find them’ but not the sura before which says 2:190 do not attack unless attacked first. God loves NOT such INJUSTICE. Now by only quoting one passage it is misleading uneducated people into thinking offensive war whereas the Quran CLEARLY says DEFENSIVE
Also unbelievers. Likewise, attacking unbelievers meant attacking those who had attacked Muslims first not aggressive warfare against innocent people.
While Muhammad was alive both Himself and Muslims adhered to the Quran’s law of self defence.
However after He died gradually the Caliphs became like conquering monarchs and ignored the Quran and went after power and wealth but they went AGAINST their religion and still do.
Isis and co are following in the footsteps of the Caliohs not the Quran.
Isis mainly use Hadiths. Hadiths cannot trump or replace the Quran yet they have. Which is why in the Quran it says on the Day of Judgement Muslims will be asked why they abandoned the Quran.
There are so many misunderstandings of Islam that it’s easy to put up a website and attack the Quran but it’s a huge mistake because a lot of people know the truth that it’s just innuendo meant to discredit Islam but the wrongdoings of a few don’t make an entire civilisation evil.
There is no balance in reporting . It is just negative attack attack and attack stuff.
With balanced and fair reporting truth would come out that it’s not the Quran but lack of obedience to it that is causing violence. Hadiths, violent Hadiths are the culprit here not the Quran.
gravenimage says
References in the Bible to ‘Mt. Paran’ and ‘Paraclete’ refer to Muhammad’s Revelation: Deuteronomy 33:2, Genesis 21:21, Numbers 12:16, Numbers 13:3.
…………………………….
I’m not sure how much more of this crap I want to wade through. Here goes:
If you’re basing the prophesying of Moses, Jesus, and Muhammed on Deuteronomy 33:2, this is odd, since this is spoken by Moses himself as a blessing to the Tribes of Israel right before his death. Your interpretation has him prophesying his own coming when he himself was an old man–pretty odd, no?
Given that this itself makes no sense, probably not worth mentioning that it would be quite perverse to believe that Moses blessing of the Tribes of Israel consisted of wishing the genocidally antisemitic Muhammed on them.
Going on, the “he” in Genesis 21:21 is Ishmael, not Muhammed. One only has to read previous verses to see that.
The “they” of Numbers 12:16 are Aaron and his people, not Muhammed.
Numbers 13:3 refers to Moses, not Muhammed.
Yet more:
Think about it! If rape and murder were really taught by the Quran this website would not need to be trying to distort the Quran’s verses by placing a quote under every terrorist article.
…………………………….
Again, this makes no sense. Muslims commit these atrocities on the tenets of the Qur’an and other texts of Islam; the Qur’an is only referred to because Muslims *themselves* frequently refer to the Qur’an as justification for their atrocities.
If you had not noticed, this Al Azhar professor advocating rape is a Qur’anic scholar. Several of the other Islamic scholars cited by Mr. Spencer *specifically* quote the Qur’an on this issue.
More:
This website will show 2:191 ‘kill them wherever you find them’ but not the sura before which says 2:190 do not attack unless attacked first. God loves NOT such INJUSTICE. Now by only quoting one passage it is misleading uneducated people into thinking offensive war whereas the Quran CLEARLY says DEFENSIVE
…………………………….
No, it does not. I’ve debunked this false claim several times before. Qur’an 2:190 reads:
“Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.”
“Those who fight you” means *anyone* who resists Muslim conquest–not those who attack first without provocation.
More:
Also unbelievers. Likewise, attacking unbelievers meant attacking those who had attacked Muslims first not aggressive warfare against innocent people.
…………………………….
“Unbeliever” does not mean “those who attack Muslims”–it means those who are non-Muslims.
Yet more:
There are so many misunderstandings of Islam that it’s easy to put up a website and attack the Quran but it’s a huge mistake because a lot of people know the truth that it’s just innuendo meant to discredit Islam but the wrongdoings of a few don’t make an entire civilisation evil.
There is no balance in reporting . It is just negative attack attack and attack stuff.
…………………………….
The purpose of this site is to educate Infidels about the threat of violent Jihad, not to “attack the Quran”.
It is, in fact, quite damning of that foul tome that you would consider any criticism of terrorism, rape, slavery, mass murder and the other atrocities condoned by Islam to be just an attack on the Qur’an…
worldcitizen1919 says
I condemn rape, murder and terrorism as you do.
However putting a Quote from the Quran next to each incident is misleading and it is done to try and disparage Islam, Muhammad & the Wuran is insidious and untruthful. It is religious prejudice nothing else.
It’s like me blaming your mother if you do something wrong. Every Muslim makes a choice and like the Buddhist who slashed the tyres it’s not Buddhas fault.
Baha’is condemn all evil but it’s also evil to lie and spread false propaganda by trying to implicate the Quran by association to every disputable act committed.
You think the purpose is not to attack and discredit the Quran and Muhammad? Then why each news clip has ADDED to it from the original article an abundance of Quranic verses?
If the intention were not to attack and smear the Quran and Muhammad then why not just post the original article without editing??
Because the one agenda is to turn people against the Quran and Muhammad and Islam that’s why.
If you can’t see that then you’ve already been brainwashed and manipulated so badly that all you can see is ‘evil Islam’ which is what you’ve allowed yourself to be indoctrinated into thinking.
Terrorism and rape does not originate from any religion. Rape and barbarism has been alive since the dawn of humanity. Look at human history and these things existed before Muhammad & the Quran.
So 1099 and the massacre at Jerusalem was not religious hatred??
C’mon. If you’re still in charge of your thoughts try to see the other side of the story. Everything Islam is evil? Nonsense and just the result of a brainwashed mind.
How can you allow your mind to be hijacked like that??
I have almost everyone insulting me and telling me I’m cray but my rational thinking and reason and logic and study and research shows that you’re mostly brainwashed into thinking Islam is all evil. And you’re minds are polluted by prejudice and hatred.
Even when I said something good about Buddha someone attacked me here why I didn’t use the news clip to attack Islam!!! I was beside myself. I was shocked. I just said the Buddha taught against anger. But I was supposed to attack Islam!! What prejudice!!! Amazing one track minds.
Only terrorism is evil not the Quran and not Muhammad. All else is on the table.
I believe you’re a good person and are able to look at good as well as bad so I hope you can get past these prejudices and be fair.
gravenimage says
worldcitizen1919 wrote:
I condemn rape, murder and terrorism as you do.
However putting a Quote from the Quran next to each incident is misleading and it is done to try and disparage Islam, Muhammad & the Wuran (sic) is insidious and untruthful. It is religious prejudice nothing else.
………………………………..
What rot. This is not gratuitous on Robert Spencer’s part–Qur’anic verses are used by Muslim scholars to *justify* rape, murder, and terrorism.
And for daring to show on what basis Muslims rape and murder us, you consider this “religious prejudice nothing else”.
But not every religion is peaceful and true–it depends on the *ideology* of the faith.
Would you say that showing how Nazism was rooted in the ideas of Mein Kampf is “ideological prejudice”?
More:
It’s like me blaming your mother if you do something wrong.
………………………………..
Not at all. Rational people do not believe in collective guilt. One’s mother is a separate person from oneself. But any book is a collection of ideas–and with the Qur’an these are the ideas Muslims use to justify their violence.
More:
Baha’is condemn all evil but it’s also evil to lie and spread false propaganda by trying to implicate the Quran by association to every disputable act committed.
………………………………..
The Qur’an is being cited above *by Muslim scholars*. If you were genuinely upset by Muslims using the Qur’an to justify violence, you would *take it up with them*–instead of insisting that their victims not mention it.
But you will not do this.
More:
You think the purpose is not to attack and discredit the Quran and Muhammad? Then why each news clip has ADDED to it from the original article an abundance of Quranic verses?
If the intention were not to attack and smear the Quran and Muhammad then why not just post the original article without editing??
Because the one agenda is to turn people against the Quran and Muhammad and Islam that’s why.
………………………………..
Qur’anic Suras are only cited when they are salient–when *Muslims* regularly refer to them.
As usual, you are much more scandalized by the idea that Infidels be allowed to recognize the roots of Muslim violence than you are by Muslim violence itself.
Deeply troubling.
More:
If you can’t see that then you’ve already been brainwashed and manipulated so badly that all you can see is ‘evil Islam’ which is what you’ve allowed yourself to be indoctrinated into thinking.
………………………………..
What absolute rot. There was a time when I didn’t care about Islam much one way or the other, like most Westerners. I had become increasingly concerned over burgeoning Muslim violence–bombings in Israel, hijackings, the terrible taking of the Achille Lauro–but it was only with 9/11 that I seriously began to study the ideology of Islam to see what terrorists were referring to.
It is now 15 years and 27,667 Jihad terror attacks later–and violent Muslims are now running rampant in the West. I have personally known three people murdered by ravening Muslims, and I don’t even live in a heavily Islamized area.
The idea that one is “brainwashed” and “manipulated” to oppose this evil is simply sickening.
More:
Terrorism and rape does not originate from any religion. Rape and barbarism has been alive since the dawn of humanity. Look at human history and these things existed before Muhammad & the Quran.
………………………………..
But only Muslims are engaging in these evils on the express basis of their faith. You say it doesn’t come from any religion? Why don’t you take it up with this Al Azhar professor and the hordes of Muslim rapists who act on just these tenets?
It is only Muslims that are resurrecting organized slavery–and they are doing it on the basis of Islam and the model of the “Prophet”, Take it up with them if you don’t like it.
Then you have to resort to an incident from almost a thousand years ago during the crusades–while the Muslims you spout apologia for are committing atrocities every day in the name of their foul creed.
More:
C’mon. If you’re still in charge of your thoughts try to see the other side of the story. Everything Islam is evil? Nonsense and just the result of a brainwashed mind.
………………………………..
The only decent thing in the Qur’an, as I have noted many times here, is At-Takwir 81:8-9. Since such actions were already condemned in Judaism and Christianity, it was nothing new.
The only moving thing I have read in all of Islamic scripture is this Hadith:
…So Allah’s Apostle ordered that the two adulterers be stoned to death, and so they were stoned. Ibn ‘Umar added: So both of them were stoned at the Balat and I saw the Jew bending over her and sheltering the Jewess from the stones.”
–Al-Bukhari Volume 8, Book 82, Number 809
Firstly, you do not believe in Hadith. More saliently, of course, is the fact that this tender act was performed not by a Muslim, but by a *victim* of the “Prophet”.
There are things in Islam that are not objectionable–Wu’du, fasting during Ramadan, going on the Hadj–but they are also morally irrelevant.
I must quote Byzantine emperor Manuel II Palaiologos, who said:
“Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.”
More:
I believe you’re a good person and are able to look at good as well as bad so I hope you can get past these prejudices and be fair.
………………………………..
The idea that whitewashing evil is “fair” is moral insanity.
You are the one who has been brainwashed into believing you must whitewash the appalling Qur’an and the foul “Prophet”.
You have already shown that your only purpose here is to spout apologia for the greatest evil of our time.
I will continue to oppose this.
But probably not any longer on this thread, which has by now well and truly fallen into the archives. At this point this is just intended as a distraction–what Anti-Jihadist Dumbledore’s Army refers to as “sand throwing”.
worldcitizen1919 says
We each have strong views so we can agree to disagree for now and move on.
nacazo says
Mufti Abdullah Al-Kenny Al-Philadelphi (known by the infidels as Mayor Jim Kenny of Philadelphia) and Grand Muftis Hussein Obama and Daoud Al-Kameroni Al-Britani would explain how this in an instance where islam shows as a champion of women’s rights.
As they keep explaining what islam is and isn’t, I expect they are acredited in the appropriate islamic madrasa.
GeorgeRomero says
Its a war on wimmin i tell ya!!!!! ,hillary shakes head in dissaproval ,” Its their CULTURE!!!!goddamm it and it must be respected!!!!”
Hope says
Ah, yes. The United States needs more of this! This is what our tolerant, diverse society needs right now. We must bring more of it so that we can all enjoy the beauty of Islam! Hillary should take this lovely little toad of a woman with her on the campaign trail so that everyone who supports her can see exactly what they’re voting for.
Carolyne says
Hillary already has a “Lovely little toad of a woman,” a Muslim who accompanies her everywhere. Her name is Huma Agedin.
Darryl Kerney says
yes Carolyne, my thought exactly !
and obama has his muslim brotherhood advisers….
how much more F***** Up can it get ?
Hope says
Yes, indeed. I hope that when Hillary goes to jail, little Ms. Huma is locked up right alongside her.
Pete says
she knows she is safe, she is well past the use-by date and best avoided, stinkin stuff.
seriously, these allah retards think following a rapist pedophile make them morally supreme beings
f c king says
It is time to come out of the dark ages. Slavery is wrong.
Ken says
The liberals seem to have sympathy for the Muslim cause so they might agree with this women. Least they be called racist.
Darryl Kerney says
they agree because the left and islam are both totalitarian, natural allies, who will fight to the death after they get rid of us pesky freedom lovers to impose THEIR utopian version of collectivism.
ConnectingDots says
What a sweetheart!
Well, she certainly knows her Koran in this regard.
God-DidRationalityLeftEarth says
All the hidden or not-so-popular median channels,websites time and again publish such articles with muslims doing/saying things that shows their fanaticism, radicalism and anti-humane practices with the references of verses from their so called prophet and so-called-book that as per them came directly from heaven.
To my surprise, no muslim will come and comment and correct this type of an article here, but just say this is all a lie. I really want to ask all the muslims, just how many versions of this so called peaceful book do they have?
Because, many terrorists worldwide are claiming, the attrocities towards non-muslims, is to please the will of their loving allah, and it is the order of their allah to convert the infidels or else torment them in whichever way you feel like.
But some just come to social media and say this is a lie, Thats it! I really am very interested now, to read that Quran book myself to check if majority of these brutal muslims are lying with their brutal actions or is it really the religion of ……
Meanwhile all the criminals and psychopaths are so tempted and joining hands with the inhumane groups who always claim islam religion as the basis of their activities.
Darryl Kerney says
look at ISIS, they really do follow the quran 100 %.
SpiritOf1683 says
The worst thing about what this professor says is that the future of Western civilization itself depends on actually believing what she says about rape. A Holocaust survivor once told future generations when he was asked for his advice: “When somebody says they’re going to kill you, believe them and take them at their word”. Unlike what we get from our politically-correct media and politicians, she is giving the unvarnished truth. Had she been belioeved, we wouldn’t have been letting in these refugees and witnessing the rape scenes in several European cities.
Darryl Kerney says
excellent point !
islamic “authorities” have been saying it everyday that the goal of islam is to “bring down the west’s miserable house from within by their own hands”.
pretty clear right ?
whose hands will bring us down ?
i think you know…..liberals, lefties, spineless idiots who refuse to recognize the enemy that tells them over and over “we are going to destroy your way of life” and mAke YOU SUBMIT TO our totalitarian system.
Darryl Kerney says
also, liberals and lefties want us to submit to their totalitarian system.
proof ?
bill 569 seeks to criminalize criticism of islam, and along with it their collectivist ideology.
gravenimage says
Yes–we avoid taking Muslims at their word to our own peril.
dlbrand says
Indeed.
read more: http://islamexposed.blogspot.com/2016/01/fools-standing-in-defense-of-islam.html
Simone Fields says
Brilliant work against Worldcitizen, you must need a holiday now!
worldcitizen1919 says
The Quran doesn’t support this professor whatsoever. She speaks on her own ignorance and probably uses Hadiths which the Quran also does not support.
Angemon says
Islamic orthodox includes an extensive number of hadith. I think that, when discussing what a religion teaches, one should draw from the sources used to shape orthodoxy, not ignore them and say that their orthodoxy is wrong.
worldcitizen1919 says
Hi Angemon,
There is a huge difference between what God says and what man says and I just want to establish that Hadiths do not speak for God or Islam or the Quran.
ThenQuran rejects hadiths. People may use them but they speak not for Islam only for themselves. I’m a Baha’i I accept Muhammad and the Quran but not man made compositions fraudulently passed of as coming from Islam or Muhammad.
6:114 “Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this book sufficiently detailed?” Those to whom We have given the book know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.*
6:115 The word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice; there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.
39:23 God has sent down the best hadith, a book that is consistent, relating/contrasting/repeating. The skins of those who reverence their Lord shiver from it, then their skins and their hearts soften up to the remembrance of God. Such is God’s guidance; He guides with it whoever He wills. For whomever God misguides, then none can guide him.*
Angemon says
worldcitizen1919 posted:
“There is a huge difference between what God says and what man says and I just want to establish that Hadiths do not speak for God or Islam or the Quran.
ThenQuran rejects hadiths. People may use them but they speak not for Islam only for themselves. I’m a Baha’i I accept Muhammad and the Quran but not man made compositions fraudulently passed of as coming from Islam or Muhammad.”
You should be telling that to muslims, not to non-muslims. Whether non-muslims consider the ahadith to be reliable or not makes no difference to muslims.
worldcitizen1919 says
Jihad Watch uses Hadiths everyday to condemn or denigrate Muhammad and don’t seem to realise that Hadiths are not the Word of God.
Angemon says
worldcitizen1919 posted:
“Jihad Watch uses Hadiths everyday to condemn or denigrate Muhammad and don’t seem to realise that Hadiths are not the Word of God.”
Can you name me one hadith used by JW that is not recognized by any school of orthodox islam? You have it backwards: muslims use ahadith to justify their actions, JW reports on it. Reporting that muslims believe that muhammad married a six-year-old girl and allowed the raping of non-muslim women is NOT denigrating muhammad, it’s honest reporting.
worldcitizen1919 says
Baha’is only accept the Quran as the Word of God and the Quran itself states that it is the best Hadith and that the Word of God cannot be changed and has been given in detail.
There is plenty of information by historians who prove that A’isha was around 17-19 when she married Muhammad.
31:6 Among the people, there are those who accept baseless hadiths to mislead from the path of God without knowledge, and they take it as entertainment. These will have a humiliating retribution.
25:30 The messenger said, “My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran.”*
6:115 The word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice; there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower
6:114 “Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this book sufficiently detailed?” Those to whom We have given the book know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of
Angemon says
31:6 does NOT mention ahadith. The word used means “idle tales” (at least, according to quran.com), meaning distraction/diversion. In context, it’s warning against any form of distraction that may lead muslims away from allah. It’s one of the verses some muslims use to justify the prohibition of music. Heck, the Muhsin Khan translation adds “(music, singing, etc)” – it certainly is NOT talking about ahadith.
Sura 25 was about the pagans in Mecca not believing the quran was a divine revelation and their meeting with allah in the afterlife. “Yes, I told them the quran was from allah, but they ignored it all the same”.
6:111-115 was supposedly about no one being able to change what the quran says, not about ahadith, since they don’t, you know, actually change what the quran says (although since it reads “the word of allah” rather than “the quran” it raises a problem for muslims, who insist that the bible and the torah were corrupted).
As for the age of Aisha, no, there’s no doubt that the was six when she was married off and nine when the marriage was consummated (at least going by the Arab lunar calendar – probably less if counted in our solar one). Muslims had no problem with it up until the early 20th century, when a ahmadi proselyting for islam (Muhammad Ali, like Cassius Clay, IIRC) got tired of being called out for defending a lecherous old man and started denying what the ahadith say. The idea that Aisha was not married off at the age of six and had her marriage consummated at the age of nine (again, going by a lunar calendar, which is shorter than our solar one) is certainly not taken seriously by any orthodox muslim sect, from Khomeini in Iran to sunnis Saudis in Saudi Arabia.
worldcitizen1919 says
Translations of the Quran in English are always interpretation and many leave out important words such as Hadith but some translations will leave the word Hadith untranslated to show the true meaning.
The passages I gave you leave the Arabic term untranslated so you can see clearly the Quran is talking about Hadiths while other English translators just translate directly over.
The Quran denounces Hadiths and many Muslims are aware of this and don’t follow them.
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/Hadith_in_Quran.htm
http://submission.org/Corruption_of_Religion.html
The story about A’isha falls under that category and is not even worth mentioning. I am satisfied that Muhammad obeyed the Quran as He was. Proohet, and married well within the legal age.
There’s an book in PDF form regarding A’isha and that the Hadith is incorrect if you want to read it it’s free and at the bottom of the page of this link
http://www.mohammedamin.com/Reviews/Age-of-Aishah.html
but for Baha’is Aisha, was married to Muhammad according to the laws of the Quran which means she was of legal and mature age.and we know that because Muhammad was a Prophet of God and He obeyed the Quran.
‘Idle tales’ was what the translator used to translate the word Hadith from the Arabic.
Check the link above for all references in the Quran which say Hadith in Arabic and you will be surprised that the English translations how misleading they are in that they don’t specify that thenQuran is rejecting a Hadith but if you use the Arabic word it’s easy to see the Quran condemns Hadiths.
Angemon says
worldcitizen1919 posted:
“Translations of the Quran in English are always interpretation and many leave out important words such as Hadith but some translations will leave the word Hadith untranslated to show the true meaning.
The passages I gave you leave the Arabic term untranslated so you can see clearly the Quran is talking about Hadiths while other English translators just translate directly over.”
That is, at best, linguistic gymnastics. Words have meanings and can be translated from one language to another. Let’s go with what you say. Does the untranslated word “hadith” in the quran specifically means the collections of tales and saying attributed to muhammad or is it a generic term meaning something akin to “stories” or “tales”, referring to, for example,folk tales that the Arabs at the time of muhammad told one another to pass the time?
“The Quran denounces Hadiths and many Muslims are aware of this and don’t follow them.”
Quran-only muslims are considered deviants. There’s plenty of things the quran itself doesn’t say. For example, how many times should they pray per day?
“The story about A’isha falls under that category and is not even worth mentioning. I am satisfied that Muhammad obeyed the Quran as He was. Proohet, and married well within the legal age.”
Not according to orthodox islam. The ahadith stating she was six at the time of her marriage are sahih – reliable, trustworthy, authentic.
“but for Baha’is”
Not for orthodox muslims.
“Aisha, was married to Muhammad according to the laws of the Quran which means she was of legal and mature age.and we know that because Muhammad was a Prophet of God and He obeyed the Quran.”
That’s circular logic.
“‘Idle tales’ was what the translator used to translate the word Hadith from the Arabic.”
See above. Does “hadith” specifically means “the words and actions attributed to muhammad” or is it a general term meaning “tale”? If you can’t prove that the quran is specifically referring to the former, 31:6 just says that muslims shouldn’t read, for example, Aesop’s Fables or Grimms’ Fairy Tales instead of the quran.
“Check the link above for all references in the Quran which say Hadith in Arabic and you will be surprised that the English translations how misleading they are in that they don’t specify that thenQuran is rejecting a Hadith but if you use the Arabic word it’s easy to see the Quran condemns Hadiths.”
Again, it all comes back to what hadith means. Does it specifically refers to a story attributed to muhammad or is it a generic term like “tales”? Leaving it untranslated and claiming that it means one thing specifically is dishonest.
worldcitizen1919 says
Everybody has a different viewpoint and are free to believe what they will.mOrthodox Muslims have a different view and of course are free to hold that view.
I can only state the Bahai view is.
In the Holy Books they are not just words but have spiritual truths. Muhammad was a man like you and I, but we believe His Spirit was from God so He was perfect and did not err or commit any wrong.
So if for instance something derogatory is said about Him, we know it’s not true based upon our knowledge that His Spirit was born of God not man.
But if you believe Muhammad was just an ordinary man then of course you will believe all these accusations.
Angemon says
worldcitizen1919 posted:
“Everybody has a different viewpoint and are free to believe what they will.mOrthodox Muslims have a different view and of course are free to hold that view.
I can only state the Bahai view is.”
We’re discussing the orthodox muslim view. In it, the ahadith are part of the sunnah and second in authority to the quran alone.
“In the Holy Books they are not just words but have spiritual truths. Muhammad was a man like you and I, but we believe His Spirit was from God so He was perfect and did not err or commit any wrong.
So if for instance something derogatory is said about Him, we know it’s not true based upon our knowledge that His Spirit was born of God not man.”
That’s circular logic.
“But if you believe Muhammad was just an ordinary man then of course you will believe all these accusations.”
Why shouldn’t I believe what muslims say about muhammad?
worldcitizen1919 says
It’s a good point you raise. But where in the Quran do scholars and Mullas get their authority to decide what is true and what is not?
Firstly, Muhammad did not leave a ‘successor’ so Muslims have no ‘centre’ to which to turn for authoritative guidance. Without such an authority everything is personal opinion and conjecture not authorised interpretation.
We need evidence and proof that these people who claim to represent Islam are truly authorised by the Quran to do so. Not just by each other because they claim to speak for Islam so on whose authority do they speak for Islam in an authoritative capacity so why should we believe them?
Peter was in the minority and a simple fisherman without education and recognised the truth of Christ yet Caiphas who was the most learned of his day condemned Christ to death.
Not what is the norm or majority can always be relied upon to be correct or true or be used as a yardstick for truth.
Angemon says
worldcitizen1919 posted:
“Firstly, Muhammad did not leave a ‘successor’ so Muslims have no ‘centre’ to which to turn for authoritative guidance.”
Which is why the sunni-shia split happened: sunnis wanted to get a successor based on popular vote while shias wanted someone from muhammad’s bloodline.
“Without such an authority everything is personal opinion and conjecture not authorised interpretation.”
No, not really. There are established schools of islamic jurisprudence who, although having different opinions on some details, agree on most things. There’s no school saying that apostasy from islam is OK, or that adultery is not to be punished.
“We need evidence and proof that these people who claim to represent Islam are truly authorised by the Quran to do so. Not just by each other because they claim to speak for Islam so on whose authority do they speak for Islam in an authoritative capacity so why should we believe them?”
Again, we’re not talking about individuals looking at the quran and making their own mind, we’re talking about schools of islamic jurisprudence that date back more than a thousand years.
“Peter was in the minority and a simple fisherman without education and recognised the truth of Christ yet Caiphas who was the most learned of his day condemned Christ to death.”
For sedition under the Roman law, not Jewish law, in order to maintain his position and power.
“Not what is the norm or majority can always be relied upon to be correct or true or be used as a yardstick for truth.”
Look up ijma.
Shalom says
Angemon – It seems to me that Baha’i s are hedging their bets by claiming all religions are good and thereby saving their souls – just in case!
worldcitizen1919 says
Schools did rise up but there is no guarantee of infallibility either of decisions or interpretations so they can never claim to speak infallibly as they have no mandate to do that.
The only such mandate would have had to come from the Quran itself or from Muhammad. Himself.
For instance. Baha’u’llah has written in His Holy Book that the Universal House of Justice has the authority to enact laws on matters not revealed in th Holy Book and that such decisions are infallible and free from error.
No such written authority was ever given to the church or the scholars of Islam thus many errors either intentionally or unintentionally have been made.
Angemon says
worldcitizen1919 posted:
“Schools did rise up but there is no guarantee of infallibility either of decisions or interpretations so they can never claim to speak infallibly as they have no mandate to do that.”
There is – ijma.
“The only such mandate would have had to come from the Quran itself or from Muhammad. Himself.”
That’s where the ahadith come into play.
worldcitizen1919 says
The Quran in some passages indicates Hadiths are not accepted although Muslims still use them.
Angemon says
worldcitizen1919 posted:
“The Quran in some passages indicates Hadiths are not accepted although Muslims still use them.”
Show me. Show me where, in the quran, it says that muhammad’s example is not to be followed. And I mean specifically muhammad’s example, not hadith, which is an arabic word meaning something like “tale” or “account”. Because I can show you where the quran says that muhammad is the best example of conduct.
worldcitizen1919 says
Muhammad’s example is supposed to be followed because He’s perfect and error free and a Prophet of God and committed no wrong.
So God Is stating here that Muhammad is all good and cannot do wrong. In this verse God whitewashes any false accusations or allegations that might be brought against Muhammad then or in the future.
33:21 Indeed, in the messenger of God a good example has been set for he who seeks God and the Last day and thinks constantly about God.
Angemon says
worldcitizen1919 posted:
“Muhammad’s example is supposed to be followed because He’s perfect and error free and a Prophet of God and committed no wrong.”
That’s not what I asked you. I asked you to show me where, in the quran, it says that muhammad’s example is not to be followed. You stated that the quran states that the hadith are not accepted. I asked you to show me where, in the quran, it says that muhammad’s example is not to be accepted. Because it seems you’re trying to use linguistic gymnastics to disregard the collections of ahadith (the name by which the recorded actions of muhammad are known) muslims use while saying that muhammad is an example to be followed. So that begs the question: if not in the sirah and hadith, where is his example recorded? If not in the islamic texts, where can we learn about what muhammad did and how he lived?
worldcitizen1919 says
It does not say not to follow Muhammads example.
The thing is they only had Him as an example when He was alive.
Angemon says
worldcitizen1919 posted:
“It does not say not to follow Muhammads example.
The thing is they only had Him as an example when He was alive.”
And, thanks to the sirah and ahadith, they know how he acted. The sunnah lives on.
worldcitizen1919 says
The Quran states He was a ‘good’ example so anything that tries to say He was anything but good is untrue and God confirms His example is good as in upright.
Any Hadith or Sunna which portrays Muhammad in anything but the good example spoken of in the Word of God is baseles because Almighty God said He was good so He was good and perfect.
Bottom line is what God says in His Word the Quran counts not Hadiths or Sunna which are not he Word of God only stores adde later.
Angemon says
worldcitizen1919 posted:
“The Quran states He was a ‘good’ example so anything that tries to say He was anything but good is untrue and God confirms His example is good as in upright.”
Circular logic.
“Any Hadith or Sunna which portrays Muhammad in anything but the good example spoken of in the Word of God is baseles because Almighty God said He was good so He was good and perfect.”
Again, circular logic. Not only that, we enter the field of “what is a good example?” – for muslims, killing people on the account of their religion like muhammad did is a good example, because the quran states that muhammad is the best example of conduct, while for pretty much every non-muslim that idea is abhorrent.
Talking about abstracts like “doing anything but a good example” is all nice and dandy, but it’s a breeding ground for dualspeak – muslims talking about muhammad being “just” may be referring to, foe example, his butchering of people for not acknowledging him as a prophet, something that Westerners wouldn’t never, ever call “just”. It’s a fun exercise, one conducted by people better than me, to take all mentions of God and divinity from the lives of Jesus and muhammad and see how they compare – one was a revolutionary saying common sense stuff, the other was a warlord.
“Bottom line is what God says in His Word the Quran counts not Hadiths or Sunna which are not he Word of God only stores adde later.”
Not for muslims – the ahadith are second only to the quran, and the sunnah is derived from the ahadith and the sirah. But if everything non-quranic is to be disregarded, what use are the passages of the quran telling muslims that muhammad is the best example of conduct? After all, without the ahadith and sirah, they have no idea of how he acted, do they?
worldcitizen1919 says
God created the Prophethood of Muhammad and ordained Him a good example.
Any reports that state otherwise dispute and question what God, the All Knowing, the All Good has stated and are false as God is All Knowing not man.
If all the people in the world say Muhammad is evil and a criminal but God says He is error free and perfect then God is right not man.
It’s what God says not what people say that matters. They have Sunnahs and Hadiths but those wanting to attribute wrong to Muhammad are false.
Also, the latest Manifestation of God, Baha’u’llah confirms Muahmmad’s Prophethood and character and that does not support this Hadith or any Hadith or Sunnahs trying to attribute evil or crime or rape to Muhammad.
I am getting my knowledge about the nature and character of Muhammad from the Word of God , the Quran and another Manifestation of God Whose Knowledge is infallible
You’re relying on a Hadith written by men that has no guarantee of infallibility and is not the Word of God. Believe it if you want but it is incorrect according to God and His Manifestations.
Angemon says
You’re running around in circles and rewording the same circular logic: “X was a prophet of God. Since he was a prophet nothing he did was wrong. Why? Because X was a prophet”. The thing is, “wrong” is a subjective concept – I’d say that having sex with a child is wrong, but muslims state that it was right because allah sanctioned it.
“You’re relying on a Hadith written by men that has no guarantee of infallibility and is not the Word of God. Believe it if you want but it is incorrect according to God and His Manifestations.”
I’m simply looking at the sources muslims consider to be reliable. If you have some sort of evidence that proves them to be forgeries, I’m all ears.
worldcitizen1919 says
Thanks for being open minded. There’s plenty more information about this Hadith and general disagreement about it.
Hadiths are often questionable and not gospel truth like the Quran. Here’s a PDF which gives a history of Hadiths and their unreliability.
http://www.mostmerciful.com/hadith-book1.pdf
“There is consensus that Hazrat Aisha was 10 years younger than her elder sister Asma, whose age at the time of the hijrah, or migration to Madina, was about 28. It can be concluded that Hazrat Aisha was about 18 years old at migration. On her moving to the Prophet’s house, she was a young woman at 21. Hisham is the single narrator of the hadith whose authenticity is challenged, for it does not correlate with the many historical facts of the time”
http://www.dawn.com/news/696084/of-aishas-age-at-marriage
Angemon says
worldcitizen1919 posted:
“Hadiths are often questionable and not gospel truth like the Quran. Here’s a PDF which gives a history of Hadiths and their unreliability.
http://www.mostmerciful.com/hadith-book1.pdf”
I agree – ahadith are unreliable. There’s nothing preventing them from being fabrications – whoever manufactured one could as easily manufacture the chain of transmission. Muslims, however, consider two collections to be reliable: sahih bukhari and sahih muslim. For them, ahadith are second in authority to the quran alone, and that I don’t consider them to be reliable means as much as me not considering the qran to be a revelation from God: I’m not a source of islamic jurisprudence or exegesis.
““There is consensus that Hazrat Aisha was 10 years younger than her elder sister Asma, whose age at the time of the hijrah, or migration to Madina, was about 28. It can be concluded that Hazrat Aisha was about 18 years old at migration. On her moving to the Prophet’s house, she was a young woman at 21. Hisham is the single narrator of the hadith whose authenticity is challenged, for it does not correlate with the many historical facts of the time”
http://www.dawn.com/news/696084/of-aishas-age-at-marriage“”
Nope. There are ahadith attributed to Aisha herself where she confirms her age both in sahih bukhari and sahih muslim. That you, as a bahai, don’t consider them to be reliable makes no difference to muslims – as far as they know and care, muhammad married Aisha when she was six and consummated the marriage when she was nine.
worldcitizen1919 says
Yes you’re right. Although we Baha’is believe them to be unreliable and many Muslims do question the one about A’isha, still many Muslims use it to justify child marriage and paedophilia which is sick.
You pointed out rightfully that it doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks all that matters is what Muslims think.
I’ve spoken to some Muslim imams about it and they are aware that it is a problem and they don’t agree with that Hadith. And some pointed out that the narrator is recorded as having memory lapses and that’s what I read also but again as you said it’s what Muslims believe that is the problem.
Thanks for that. I really appreciated your honesty and frankness.
Angemon says
Also, let me make this perfectly clear: the irony of you going against the quran by changing the words of the quran to make your case about muslims going against the quran is not lost on me.
gravenimage says
Angemon, you are *quite right* that Qur’an 31:6 does not mention Hadiths–nor does Qur’an 39:23, where “worldcitizen1919” replaces the word “statement” with “Hadith”.
Does he think Jihad Watchers are unfamiliar with the baleful Qur’an?
You wrote:
“Also, let me make this perfectly clear: the irony of you going against the quran by changing the words of the quran to make your case about muslims going against the quran is not lost on me.”
Spot on, Angemon.
Naftali Malka says
The following is a quote from the Talmud:
Ten measures of sexual immorality descended upon the world. Nine of these were taken by the arabs, and the tenth was divided amongst the remainder of the world.
Matthieu Baudin says
“…However, after her interview went viral many including members of Muslim community condemned her claims and termed them false propaganda of Islam…”
Once again the cat is let out of the bag and the broader world gets a closer look at the deficiencies and cruelty of Traditional Islamic beliefs and practices.
There are evidently plenty of Muslim women who don’t really mind if non Muslim women are humiliated, bought, sold, raped or even killed along with their Infidel husbands and sons.
Frantically and predictably an attempt is made to airbrush the comments out of cyberspace to contain any ‘bad press’.
Note; this contempt is the same attitude that has driven the mass molestation of our womenfolk in Europe by loathsome immigrant supremacists from the middle east.
Eagle says
So obvious this sick sick sick ideology was made up by goat fucking perverted men. Bunch of sickos..one day I hope they are wiped off the face of the earth.
Paladin says
I can think of a number of four letter words to describe the “religion of peace”. But none are more appropriate than “EVIL”.
Joy says
these people are evil
Darryl Kerney says
perhaps one or more of the highly knowledgeable regulars here can provide me with a link, i’m having a debate with a friend about a similar video as is on this page, https://www.facebook.com/Mr.Facebrooks/videos/920868871360880/
he tells me his friend is from Iraq and he claims the translation is all wrong.
i know i’ve read many times quotes from islamic authorities that concur with both of these videos,
my question is,
Does anyone know of an “Authoritative” source FROM the islamic world that confirms the sex slavery ?
i know it’s in the quran, but of course a verified statement from as high an authority as can be found would clearly be the best proof of the general acceptance of the sex slavery in the islamic world.