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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Huffington Post: Christians should accept Muhammad as a prophet

Jan 30, 2016 5:06 pm By Robert Spencer

The Leftist establishment continues to shill for Islam. Can you imagine the Huffington Post publishing a piece called “Why a Muslim Can View Jesus As the Son of God”? Of course not. While unstintingly hostile to Christianity, for some unknown reason (Saudi princes lining their pockets?) the Left in the West is intent on making sure that people have a positive view of Islam, and never, ever question whether the jihadis who keep on justifying murder by quoting the Qur’an might have something to do with Islam.

And so once again Craig Considine, who has likened Muhammad to George Washington, hailed Muhammad as a “universal champion of human rights,” and claimed that Christianity has a concept of jihad just like Islam’s. He pulls off these feats of legerdemain by employing a very simple method: ignoring what doesn’t fit his thesis, as he does here.

“Why a Christian Can View Muhammad As A Prophet,” by Craig Considine, Huffington Post, January 26, 2016:

As an advocate of interfaith dialogue, particularly between Christians and Muslims, I’m often faced with the issue of conversion. People ask me, “If you admire Prophet Muhammad so much, why don’t you convert to Islam? Why don’t you accept him as “the seal”? I see these questions popping up on my Twitter and Facebook feeds more than you might imagine.

Basically, me admiring Prophet Muhammad isn’t “enough” for Muslims; in their eyes, I must take a few concrete steps towards Islam to be fully recognized as a “true believer.” Otherwise, I’m just a weirdo Christian who respects Muhammad, but doesn’t recognize him as a “the man.” Christians, on the other hand, have called me “pseudo Catholic” and “infidel” for my positive writings about Muhammad. For these Islamophobes, I’m quite simply a heretic.

Note Considine’s usage of the smear term “Islamophobe.” An “Islamophobe” is supposedly someone who has an irrational hatred of Islam — and for what did his Christian interlocutors earn this label? They called him a “pseudo-Catholic” and “infidel” for his “positive writings about Muhammad.” Considering Islam’s rejection of the divinity, crucifixion, resurrection and salvific mission of Christ, it’s perfectly reasonable for these Christians to have considered Considine to have departed from the faith by writing positively about Muhammad. But to Considine, it only means that they hate Islam.

There’s no way around it. Perhaps my work is irritating to Muslims and Christians because I’m pushing a few traditional boundaries and making people question the very heart of their religious traditions and identities.

Or maybe it is irritating to Muslims and Christians because he is ignoring the manifest contradictions between the doctrines of the two faiths.

Here’s the main issue according to popular narratives: Muslims must recognize Jesus as a prophet of God, as laid out explicitly in the Qur’an. Muslims are’t [sic] at risk of anything when they say “I believe in Jesus.” However, if we switched the situation (“I’m a Christian. I believe in Muhammad as a prophet”), people might start to question my credibility as a self-professed Christian. People might say, “Jesus is the only way. You’ve turned your back on God. You’re no longer Christian.”

Note the sleight of hand. Considine suggests that Islam is more open-minded and generous than Christianity, since Muslims can say “I believe in Jesus,” but Christians can’t say “I believe in Muhammad as a prophet” without being read out of Christianity. But he can only imply this by rigging his analogy. The actual equivalent of his saying, “I’m a Christian. I believe in Muhammad as a prophet” would be for a Muslim to say, “I’m a Muslim. I believe in Jesus as the Son of God” — which the Qur’an strenuously, emphatically and repeatedly denies. If a Muslim said that, Muslims would tell him, “Jesus is only a prophet. You’ve turned your back on Allah. You’re no longer Muslim.”

I’m writing this piece to explain why I disagree with the idea that Christians can’t recognize Muhammad as a prophet. Really, what is in question here is the definition of “prophet.” “Prophet” can be defined as “a person regarded as an inspired teacher or proclaimer of the will of God.” Outside of the dictionary, I’ve always understood “prophet” to mean a messenger of a Higher Power who works on earth to bring justice and peace to humanity.

Let me say this right off the bat: I fully recognize Muhammad’s greatness. He was an exceptional person; he might even be the greatest and most influential human being ever to walk the face of the earth. Prophet Muhammad brought love, peace, and much more to a part of the world that had little of these things.

Odd, then, if Muhammad brought love and peace, why the Islamic world is in flames. Flat statements such as “Prophet Muhammad brought love, peace, and much more to a part of the world that had little of these things” are simply fatuous, in that they ignore, and expect readers to ignore, the fact that Muslims all over the world are killing people and invoking Muhammad’s words and deeds to justify those killings. Craig Considine’s balloon may never land, but he can’t expect to carry everyone else along on his cloud of self-delusion and denial just by asserting a manifest absurdity.

One of the most overlooked aspects of Muhammad’s character is his fierce anti-racist stance. He made the unprecedented move of considering both white people and black people as equals in the eyes of God. Yet many Christians still refuse to recognize Muhammad as an “inspired teacher or proclaimer of the will of God” (read: a prophet). The issue for some Christians, perhaps, is that Muhammad claims to have the last and universal truth. This rubs some Christians the wrong way. Only Jesus can make this claim.

In reality, Muhammad was a white man who owned black slaves: “A man entered the mosque on camel and made it kneel down, and then tied his leg with rope. He then asked: Who among you is Muhammad? The Messenger of Allah was sitting leaning upon something among them. We said to him: This white man who is leaning.” (Sunan Abu Dawud 486) “Narrated Umar:I came and behold, Allah’s Messenger was staying on a Mashroba (attic room) and a black slave of Allah’s Messenger was at the top if its stairs.” (Sahih Bukhari 9.91.368) And aside from claiming to have the last and universal truth, other aspects of Muhammad’s message that rub some Christians (and others) the wrong way are warfare against unbelievers, hatred of Jews, women’s inferiority, and more. But Craig Considine thinks so little of his readers that he doesn’t consider such things even to dismiss them.

In conversations I’ve had with Muslims, a frequent topic of discussion is Muhammad is “the seal of the prophets.” They add that both Moses and Jesus predicted his arrival. Christians, however, find it difficult to “find” Muhammad in their Bible. While some Muslims cite John (14: 16-17) as proof that Jesus predicted the coming of Muhammad, many Christians find it difficult to interpret this verse as the “truth.” Perhaps they’re in denial, though it doesn’t even matter. Christians don’t buy it.

Nonetheless, Christians argue that it is “anti-Christian” to say that Muhammad is a prophet. Because Jesus is the clear-cut revelation of God as noted in the Bible, Christians (the argument goes) must not accept any other figure besides him. However, I see nothing “anti-Christian” in recognizing Muhammad as a prophet. As I mentioned earlier, I like to view the word “prophet” as having a very broad meaning. In fact, I don’t even like to place it in the realm of “religion,” especially not in the Abrahamic tradition. To me, a prophet is someone who has valuable insight and intuition, who is sensitive about the well-being of others regardless of their ethnic or religious backgrounds.

Even by that standard Muhammad fails. How sensitive was Muhammad to the well-being of Safiyya bint Huyayy? Muhammad killed her father and her husband during the raid on the Jews at Khaybar. After the massacre was completed, on the way out of Khaybar that night, Muhammad halted his caravan as soon as they were outside the oasis, pitched a tent, and consummated the marriage. Remember, her father and brother had just been killed, and then she was raped by their killer. Sensitivity to the well-being of others?

And sensitive to the well-being of others regardless of their ethnic or religious backgrounds? Muhammad said: “I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah, and he who professed it was guaranteed the protection of his property and life on my behalf except for the right affairs rest with Allah.” (Sahih Muslim 30) So if a non-Muslim doesn’t convert to Islam, his property and life are not protected — is that sensitivity to the well-being of others regardless of their religious backgrounds?

I realize that some Muslims may not be happy with me putting Muhammad on par with other prophets. To be honest, I don’t see Muhammad as the “final prophet.” That’s too limiting for me, but it’s also why I’m able to consider him to be a prophet on equal footing with Jesus and others. To be clear, neither Jesus or Muhammad is the “final prophet” in my mind. I can’t imagine a Higher Power that stops allowing prophets on earth. This world of ours is broken, and so prophets will emerge as the days move forward. I don’t believe in “seals” either. Nothing is “sealed.” My views on life in general are too infinite for that kind of “truth.”

With that being said, both Muslims and Christians will say that I’m “confused” or “insane.” How can you be a Christian if you say Muhammad is a prophet? Why, then, are you not a Muslim? What are the boundaries of your religious identity? Are you both Christian and Muslim? What is going on with you?

I understand. It’s confusing, but life is messy, and “religion” perhaps even more so. A clarification is in order: Do I believe in everything that Prophet Muhammad said according to the Qur’an and hadiths? No, I don’t, but I also don’t believe in everything that Jesus or Moses said according to the Gospel or Talmud. Things kind of cancel out, even out. I accept aspects of both, but neither in their entirety.

When I read the Qur’an, I don’t interpret it as a book for Muslims, but rather for all human beings. The Qur’an (5:47) requests people to “discern what God has sent down to him.” The word “discern” is a crucial one. Literally, discern means to “perceive something.” My mind tells me that Jesus and Muhammad have equally valuable messages. Both men shared some “truths,” but let’s be real: they were human beings. They were prone to error. They made some mistakes. They missed some things.

All this windy gobbledegook amounts to is that Craig Considine is neither a Christian nor a Muslim in any recognizable or genuine sense, but is fashioning his own religion, placing himself as the judge and arbiter of the validity of what Jesus and Muhammad say. He is ill-equipped for this, however, if he thinks “Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you” is “equally valuable” as “Slay the idolaters wherever you find them.”

That the Huffington Post would print this gallimaufry of pseudo-profundity and massive intellectual confusion only illustrates how desperate the Left is to burnish the image of Muhammad and Islam: anyone who offers to do that is welcome, even if he is as muddle-headed as Craig Considine.

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Filed Under: Featured, journalistic bias, Useful idiots, willful ignorance Tagged With: Craig Considine, Huffington Post


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Comments

  1. jihad3tracker says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 5:20 pm

    AMONG THE MANY WESTERN-GUILT IGNORAMUSES WHO HAVE THE LEFT’S EAR, CONSIDINE IS AT THE VERY TOP OF THAT DUNG HEAP.

    IF A COMMENT SECTION IS AVAILABLE IN RESPONSE TO THIS HUFFINGTON POST ITEM, I WILL BE WRITING ONE. WE STILL HAVE TOMORROW — SUNDAY — WITH PERHAPS A BIT OF FREE TIME FOR YOU TO ALSO DO SO.

    REFER HIM TO ROBERT’S SHREDDING HERE, PLEASE.

    • Niko Jimenez says

      Jan 30, 2016 at 11:28 pm

      ?

      • mortimer says

        Jan 31, 2016 at 11:03 pm

        HUFFPO PHILOSOPHY: “We must not criticize the noble savages we imported to destroy Western civilization. We need the noble savages as strategic enemies.”

        • mortimer says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 11:05 pm

          “We need the noble savages as enemies of the West and strategic allies of the Left”

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 2:06 am

          You mean as human shields?

    • memory brogden says

      Jan 31, 2016 at 1:10 am

      The problem as i see it is Islamists revere Muhammad, a psychopath.

      • dawn jens says

        Feb 5, 2016 at 1:47 am

        ….Islam following Satan to the bitter end and whomever unleashed Isam unto the World is sitting in a corner laughing ……………

    • Shane says

      Jan 31, 2016 at 10:52 am

      Gutless liberal dihmmis beleive they can appease Muslims and they will leave them alone. It will not happen; we have to fight the jihad and that means spilling their blood.

    • Sandra Lee Smith says

      Jan 31, 2016 at 2:12 pm

      No point in making a comment at HuffPo; IF it even gets printed, it will be ignored, and/or thoroughly shredded beyond recognition, by the editors/readers there. However, just as an observation, Jesus said there would be no further “new” revelations after Him, ergo NO “prophets” of such nature as Muhammad or any of the rest who have claimed “new” revelations from God! John’s Revelation came from Jesus, so is not “new” since Him. Further, NO revelation from Yhwh God is in contradiction of the Word as revealed, over the preceding centuries. The Quran is precisely in contradiction of the revealed Word of Yhwh God, ergo, FALSE “revelation”. Then there’s the fact that Muslims DENY the divinity of Yeshua, His authority and position as the begotten Son of Yhwh God, and salvation by grace through His shed blood on the cross (they deny the cross entirely), all foundational principles of Christianity. Add to that, the claim that Isa (the “Jesus” they acknowledge), is coming, not to establish Yhwh’s Kingdom on Earth, but to destroy all the enemies of Islam. There is no dialogue between Christianity and Islam because the 2 beliefs are diametrically opposed to one another, and have absolutely NO common ground!

      • Sam Powell says

        Jan 31, 2016 at 4:45 pm

        Well said Sandra !

      • Austin Carroll says

        Feb 1, 2016 at 1:08 am

        Very cogently put. Millions of confused individuals would benefit from reading this succinct and central message. Spread it far and wide!

    • Tim says

      Jan 31, 2016 at 3:06 pm

      Leftists can accept Christians as Christians.

  2. Nut job says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 5:23 pm

    How can the Huff Po consider printing this drivel? Waffle waffle, waffle. Considine basically makes it all up as he goes along, and then decides to form his own religion at he same time.
    Perhaps he is the next prophet or messiah.

  3. Neil Jennison says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 5:27 pm

    They aren’t the sharpest tools in the box these Muslim apologists are they? “Craig Considine” certainly must have difficulty remembering to breathe if he believes that bull-shit.

    Then again, maybe he just wants to make a name for himself in the circles he admires?

  4. Angemon says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 5:27 pm

    To be honest, I don’t see Muhammad as the “final prophet.”

    A pious Christian wouldn’t kill him for saying that Jesus was not the Son of God or His last Messenger. A pious muslim after hearing that muhammad wasn’t the final prophet? Can’t make any promises…

    Still, I’d like to know who does he consider to be the last prophet. Plus, what he thinks of holy men and prophets from non-abrahamic religions. You know, for comparison purposes.

    • Kepha says

      Jan 31, 2016 at 3:38 pm

      Angemon, since I’m a pious Christisan, please point out Book, Chapter, and Verse that require me to go up to my Unitarian or Marxist neighbor and hurry him on his way to Hell for denying that Jesus is God’s last word to man. My pastors, theologians, and the folks who published the various Bibles I’ve read have left me with the impression that I ought to either pray for my neighbor’s conversion or leave him to God’s final judgment–of course they’re all a bunch of stupid, credulous, lying creeps who are at the same time the cleverest swindlers who’ve ever walked the earth. After all, you unbelievers are soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much wiser than we iggernet Hayill-Bayillih’s whut cain’t say Jesus Christ in less than four syllables. Please instruct.

      • Angemon says

        Feb 1, 2016 at 4:10 pm

        Kepha, I said that a pious Christian would NOT kill Mr. Considine for saying that Jesus was not the Son of God or His last Messenger, but I can’t make any promises for a pious muslim who hears Mr. Considine saying that muhammad was not the last messenger of allah.

  5. Angel Gabriel says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 5:28 pm

    A bunch of backward camel urine huffers at the Huffington Post.

  6. IQ al Rassooli says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 5:34 pm

    Craig Considine’s article shows to those who know BOTH Quran & Bible that he is by far an utterly STUPID person for a single simple reason:

    Allah is NOT God and most certainly NOT the same as the God of Jesus Moses & Abraham

    In Arabic God is called ILAH. Allah on the other hand was the NAME of the supreme rock god of Pagan Arabia in the Kaaba (centuries BEFORE Muhammad & his Quran) among 360 other deities in stone

    In fact Allah of Pagan Arabia had three daughters (of the Satanic Verses) called: Al Lat, Al Uzza, Al Manat.

    Muhammad’s father after all (a pagan) was called Abd Allah (meaning Slave of Allah)

    Muhammad metamorphosed the god of Pagan Arabia (Allah) into the God of the Bible

    Can this imbecile (pretending to be a scholar) name a SINGLE prophecy that Muhammad declared that came out to be TRUE?

    Since Muhammad NEVER predicted the future (and his Quran repeatedly asserts that Muhammad was only a WARNER) then by what a stretch of convoluted imagination can Muhammad be called a prophet?

    Craig Considine like thousands of utterly clueless so called ‘scholars of Islam) never tire of showing how irrelevant, asinine and irrational their comments and or conclusions about Muslims and Islam are

    Case CLOSED

    IQ al Rassooli
    Kafir & Proud!

    • Miao Zedong says

      Feb 1, 2016 at 2:30 am

      The very same “Rassooli” from “Lifting the veil” ? I want to shake your hands and thank you…

      • IQ al Rassooli says

        Feb 1, 2016 at 2:11 pm

        Thanks Miao. The ONE and ONLY! ” IQ al Rassooli”

        Ladies and gentlemen, there are only TWO ways to destroy a CULT belief system:

        1 The most radical and unacceptable is to exterminate every such believer by WAR

        2 The best and least requiring in violence or financial cost is to PROVE to all humanity on prime time TV that~
        a) Allah is NOT God (the same as the God of the Bible that Muslims claim he is)
        b) Utterly DISCREDIT Muhammad as a prophet

        Proving a & b must be based entirely on Muhammad’s Quran & Hadiths

        Thus making BOTH Allah & Muhammad the LAUGHING stock of every human being above the age of nine years hence forcing millions of Muslims to re think their DEPRAVED beliefs

        Can this be done?

        Without a shadow or even a reasonable doubt. All I need is the venue and time on TV

        IQ al Rassooli
        Kafir & Proud!

  7. Angemon says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 5:36 pm

    The funny part about this article is that Craig Considine, a self-professed Christian, is actually holding back. His other material is actually slimier:

    https://craigconsidinetcd.com/2016/01/29/about-those-violent-verses-in-the-bible/

    …When Christians point to the violent verses in the Qur’an, Muslims reply, “But what about the violent verses in the Bible?” That’s a fair challenge. A little dose of reality never hurts. Time to push back a bit on this idea of Christianity being “the religion of peace.”

    (also, thumbs up for JW regular ECAW’s comment)

    https://craigconsidinetcd.com/2015/12/19/under-the-government-of-prophet-muhammad/

    It is no secret that Christians are being persecuted in the ‘Muslim world’. According to the World Watch List for 2015, nine out of the top ten countries where Christians suffer ‘extreme persecution’ have populations that are at least 50% Muslim. Much of the discrimination happens in the Middle East, where ancient Christian communities are abandoning their homeland to avoid the wrath of the ‘Islamic State’. To say that Christian- Muslim relations are deteriorating is an understatement. It is time for us to discuss an important question: what can Muslims do to ensure that religious freedom, not religious bigotry, reigns supreme in their societies? My answer to the question is a simple one: return to the Prophet Muhammad’s vision of an ‘Islamic state’, one that is merciful, compassionate, and respectful of all citizens, regardless of religious backgrounds. Not only was the Prophet a proponent of justice, but he ensured that all people in the ummah had equal rights under ‘Islamic rule’.

    https://craigconsidinetcd.com/2016/01/19/israel-isnt-an-apartheid-state-its-worse-than-that/

    …So if Israel is not – in theory – an Apartheid state, what kind of state is it? Let us consider Israel as a Genocidal state.

    Like I said, much, much slimier.

  8. Champ says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 5:47 pm

    JESUS | CHRISTIANITY: The God of Jesus Christ sent His Son to die for you.

    MUHAMMAD | ISLAM: The god of Muhammad demands that you send your son to die for him.

    JESUS OR MUHAMMAD?

    More here: http://cyber-church.com/shortseries/jesusormuhammad.htm

    Excellent side-by-side comparison of Jesus & muhammad!

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    And Craig Considine “admires” probably the most notorious CRIMINAL the world has ever known. How absurd to admire someone like that.

    Also, he’s not my ‘prophet’. No way!!

    • Champ says

      Jan 30, 2016 at 6:01 pm

      As an aside, he’s completely unkempt. His hair is a greasy *mess*, and he also needs to shave. Ew. He looks like someone who hasn’t showered in about two weeks, and then he decided to get his picture taken? Wow. He’s an ugly mess both inside, and out.

      And of course HuffPo would find his pathetic drivel worthy of publishing. LOL!!

      • Champ says

        Jan 30, 2016 at 6:04 pm

        …so glad he isn’t smiling in this pic, double ewww! 😀 …probably hasn’t brushed his teeth for weeks.

        • Mockingjay says

          Jan 30, 2016 at 7:56 pm

          …but he definitely looks like he thinks he’s a handsome devil.

        • Avenger says

          Feb 6, 2016 at 1:50 pm

          He’s actually good looking which I’m sure helps get his work recognized by media sources. If he looked like Lindsey Graham his commentary wouldn’t make the Weekly Reader.
          This “no nothing” background of history, especially Islams blood drenched history, makes me worry about all the Republican presidential candidates except Ted Cruz, who I think gets it.

    • gravenimage says

      Jan 30, 2016 at 7:17 pm

      True, Champ–the evil “Prophet” Muhammed stands for everything that Jesus does not.

    • Karen says

      Jan 31, 2016 at 10:00 am

      Not mine either, and never will be.

  9. lswchp says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 5:56 pm

    Firstly, he should learn to comb his damn hair neatly.

    Next, he makes up his own mish-mash pseudo-religion which is…and…oh, I just can’t be bothered.

  10. Dan Jones says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 6:05 pm

    Jesus died for our sins
    Mohammad makes you kill for it

    Jesus healed the sick and raised the dead
    Mohammad, not so much, well not at all

    Jesus is holy
    Mohammad was a pedophile…

    I could go on, but I think you get the picture….

    More End Time News At:
    http://www.shininginthedark.com/?page_id=4526

  11. asa walker says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 6:09 pm

    a moslim is a majority stock holder of this filthy rag paper, that explains a lot

  12. Montedoro44 says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 6:12 pm

    My views on life in general are too infinite for that kind of “truth.”

    Too infinite!!!!!? LOL I’ll have what he’s having. But somebody stop me when my views on life get only a teensy bit infinite.

  13. worldcitizen1919 says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 6:25 pm

    There is nothing wrong with accepting Muhammad as He was prophesied by both Moses and Jesus in the Old and New Testaments.

    Christians who reject Muhammad are rejecting both Jesus and the Bible.

    • Angemon says

      Jan 30, 2016 at 6:27 pm

      worldcitizen1919 posted:

      “There is nothing wrong with accepting Muhammad as He was prophesied by both Moses and Jesus in the Old and New Testaments.”

      Where?

      • worldcitizen1919 says

        Jan 30, 2016 at 7:48 pm

        Biblical References to Muhammad and Ali

        References in the Bible to ‘Mt. Paran’ and ‘Paraclete’ refer to Muhammad’s Revelation: Deuteronomy 33:2, Genesis 21:21, Numbers 12:16, Numbers 13:3. Genesis 17:20 refers to the twelve Imáms and in the Revelation of St. John, chapter 11, where it mentions two witnesses, it refers to Muhammad and ‘Alí.
        (Shoghi Effendi – Lights of Guidance – Bahá’í Faith)

        The Bible is clear but people who don’t want to see the obvious turn away from it just like the Pharisees used their scriptures to condemn Jesus by quoting ‘what good comes from Nazareth’ we all now know they were WRONG.

        I have included one of the above for your convenience.

        DEU 33.2 And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand [went] a fiery law for them.

        He came from Sinai, Seir and Paran

        The Lord Who came to Sinai was Moses.
        The Lord Who rose up from Seir was Christ.
        The Lord Who shined forth from mount Paran was Muhammad
        The Lord Who came with the tens of thousands of saints is referring to the Bab and Baha’u’llah Who Brought the Bahai Faith

        https://sites.google.com/site/placesornames/nazareth-history-dead-sea-scrolls-collections

        Thou didst write as to Seir. Seir is a locality near Nazareth in Galilee.(Abdul-Baha)

        Strong’s Concordance

        Paran, a desert of Arabia: —

        Paran = “place of caverns”

        Muhammad had his Revelation in a cave and Strong’s lists Paran as a ‘desert in Arabia’ and ‘place of caverns’

        • occupant 9 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 1:30 am

          Mo did EVERYTHING forbidden by God and the only thing that God says about the people from whom Mo sprang was that “he would be a ass of a man with his hand against everyone.” Can’t argue the truth of that.

          There’s as much truth about Mo being a “prophet” as there is cheese on the moon.

          Taqiyya, taqiyya, taqiyya.

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 1:48 am

          As much as it may sound like it, “Get thee behind me satan” was not a prophecy about Moe.
          No sane person would trust him behind their back.

        • Angemon says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 10:08 am

          Huh, no, Paraclete is the Holy Spirit, a part of the Trinity. As for Deuteronomy 33:2, read the damn thing: it’s talking about the coming of God, not a prophet. The LORD came from Sinai. LORD meaning God. In the original Hebrew, LORD is written YHWH. Some translations have “Jehova” instead of LORD. It’s not talking about a prophet but of God itself.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 11:08 am

          Paran is the desert of,Arabia where Muhammad had HismRevelation in a cave.

          It clearly prophecies the area and that the Lord will come to that area. Go look a proper Bible Atlas like the Zondervan Atlas and you will see it clearly.

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 1:49 pm

          You just gotta believe! Don’t check him on his bull. LOL

        • Karen says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 12:11 pm

          WorldCitizen1919, your sacred honor is in serious jeopardy.

          I reviewed these references, and they in no way rise to the level of a reference to Mohammad. Only a die-hard Islam apologist could extrapolate that from these rather simple and clear verses:

          Gen 21:21, a simple reference to Ishmael and Hagar.
          Num 12:16, the Israelites camp in the desert of Paran.
          Num 13:3 the twelve tribes of Israel in the desert of Paran.
          Gen 17:20 ref’s twelve tribes of Ishmael, NOT 12 “imams”.

          WC1919, are you saying that any reference to Mt. Paran (Sinai), the desert of Paran or a caravan is a potential reference to Mohammad? That’s rather silly, isn’t it?

          Deu 33:2, you attempt to dissect this one, and make the extraordinary claim: “The Lord Who shined forth from mount Paran was Muhammad”. Yet as proof you cite material from a website that fails to identify the authors of any of its material, makes unbelievable claims, such as Jesus being the grandson of a king, and that English is a kind of modern day Aramaic (the two languages are in completely different families), and cares not how its material is re-distributed, or by who (no copyrights of any kind.) Are you suggesting that this site has any connection with Google’s Dead Sea Scrolls project? That hardly seems possible.

          Paran references; Mt. Sinai and Mt. Paran may in fact be the same location, and may be in Saudi Arabia (this is not universally agreed upon), but what has that to do with Mohammad’s revelation? That was on Mt. Jabal al-Nour, the location of which is known.

          Peraclete; are you using the ‘peraclete’ versus ‘periklutos’ deception? Islam apologists like to twist biblical references to ‘peraclete’ into ‘periklutos’, which means ‘the praised one’, which in turn is the meaning of ‘Mohammad’, and viola, they have ‘proven’ the biblical foretelling of Mohammad. Except they haven’t. Search Answering-Islam.org for a discussion on this common deception.

          I didn’t even bother to look at the ref to Revelations; seven strikes and you’re out.

          To summarize, WC1919, I don’t think I’ll be paying any attention to your posts anymore.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 1:49 pm

          All I can say is that I’m getting my interpretations from an infallible source not man made interpretations.

          Everybody can dispute anything. Caiphas disputed Christ.

          Your interpretations are from who? You determine that these interpretations are wrong but if Christ Himself said they were true would you still dispute with Him and assert you knew better?

          My point is the books are sealed until the time of the end so you can’t know the correct interpretation unless you get it from the Root of David, the Lion of the tribe of Judah Who was the ONLY one found worthy to unseal the meanings.

          The Lion of the tribe of Judah of the root of David was not Christ because He found His existence throughout the Spirit of God and called Himself the Son of God and was born of the Holy Spirit.

          I have my interpretation from the Liion of the tribe of Judah , the root of David and so I know He’s right and the interpretation is infallible because He is the ONLY one found worthy to unseal the Books .

          It’s what the Bible says. Not my words.

          What I quoted to you about Sinal being Moses, Seir Neing Christ and Paran being Muhammad was infallible and not from myself.

          The last Revelation with tens of thousands of saints refers to the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David – Baha’u’llah Who was descended through two of Abrahams wives as well as Jesse the father of David and He says in a Tablet to th Christians this……

          “Say, Lo! The Father is come, and that which ye were promised in the Kingdom is fulfilled! This is the Word which the Son concealed, when to those around Him He said: ‘Ye cannot bear it now.’ “

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 4:33 pm

          “worldcitzen1919” has pushed this idiocy here before. As he would have it, Moses prophesied his own coming when he was already an old man.

          But more than such glaring inconsistencies, of course, is the idea that Jesus hearlily approves of a warlord, rapist, slaver, pedophile, and mass murderer and that Christians must do the same.

      • DFD says

        Jan 31, 2016 at 3:58 pm

        Angemon says : “(referring to worldcitizen1919 BS)… Muhammad as He was prophesied by both Moses and Jesus in the Old and New Testaments….. Where?”

        Bible, Deuteronomy 18:20 NIV: “But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that (false) prophet shall die.”

        Mohammed claims to have been foretold in the Bible. Indeed so. In revelations there is warning of the deceiver in the desert, people are told not to go to him, not to listen to him. He was one of the various Anti-Christs, who appear periodically, until the last one. Yes, Mohammed was foretold in the Bible. But, we see the exact opposite of what Muhammad claimed, when we examine the Bible.

        • Larry A. Singleton says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 7:18 pm

          The Prophet Muhammad’s ‘Night Journey’ was Not to Jerusalem but to Medina by Ahmad Muhammad ‘Arafa
          http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/941.htm

          Muhammad in Song of Solomon 5:16?
          Monday, May 12, 2014
          http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2014/05/muhammad-in-song-of-solomon-516.html

          Machmad and “Muhammad foretold in the Bible”
          Reader comment on item: Pope Benedict XVI and the Koran
          in response to reader comment: “machmad” correct translation?
          http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/202283

          The Myth of the Andalusian Paradise by Dario Fernandez-Morera

          The Myth of Muslim Spain as a Model of Coexistence for Today by “esperanto”? Anyway, go to Antisharia.com.

          The Myth of Islamic Science by Dr. N.S. Rajaram

          Why Does the Muslim World lag in Science? By Aaron Segal

    • Champ says

      Jan 30, 2016 at 6:41 pm

      “Christians who reject Muhammad are rejecting both Jesus and the Bible.”

      This comment is *beyond* absurd, and there is no basis in fact, for it.

      The opposite is, in fact, true; and here is what the Bible teaches:

      1 John 4:1-6 – Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. (Read More…)

      1 John 4:1 – Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

      2 Peter 2:1 – But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

      Matthew 7:15 – Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

      Matthew 24:24 – For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

      Mark 7:6-9 – He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with [their] lips, but their heart is far from me. (Read More…)

      Revelation 20:10 – And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      A list of but a few examples from the Bible.

      • Mike Proulx says

        Jan 30, 2016 at 6:44 pm

        God Bless you Brother, glory to God.

        • Champ ✿ says

          Jan 30, 2016 at 6:55 pm

          Thank you, Mike! ..oh, and I’m a sister in Christ 🙂

          Yes, glory to God! Jesus Christ is the Truth, the Way, and the Life!

          …and mohammad was nothing more than a demon-possessed ‘prophet’ from hell, who’s there right now. Good riddance to some bad rubbish.

      • Champ says

        Jan 30, 2016 at 6:50 pm

        “worldcitizen” is a treacherous LIAR. I would even go so far to state that he himself is a false teacher, who comes on JW spreading false information like candy. This poster is a clown and not to be taken seriously.

        And spare me what’s coming: your disingenuous apologies, of which I have ZERO interest in reading. Let alone receiving.

      • worldcitizen1919 says

        Jan 30, 2016 at 8:14 pm

        Reject it as you may it is the truth.
        Christians who deny Muhammad deny Christ.

        • Champ says

          Jan 30, 2016 at 8:24 pm

          “worldclassclown” wrote:

          Reject it as you may it is the truth.
          Christians who deny Muhammad deny Christ.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          What a preposterous statement. And there’s nothing written in the Bible — either in the Old Testament, or the New Testament — which supports this idiotic lie.

          Get lost LIAR.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 30, 2016 at 9:20 pm

          Get lost?

          So no freedom of speech or expression at Jihad Watch??

          Thanks for the compliment. I consider it an honour to be reviled for telling the truth.

          Be in denial as you wish.

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 30, 2016 at 8:41 pm

          “worldcitizen1919” wrote:

          Christians who deny Muhammad deny Christ
          …………………………

          In other words, every single good Christian is wrong, but lovers of evil are perfectly fine.

          This poster has gone from bad to worse.

        • Mo says

          Jan 30, 2016 at 8:45 pm

          @ worldcitizen1919

          “Reject it as you may it is the truth.
          Christians who deny Muhammad deny Christ.”

          You must be a Muslim, eh?

          Answer the points and question I put to you. (You know you will not.)

        • Champ ✞ says

          Jan 30, 2016 at 9:33 pm

          “worldcitizen1919” wrote:

          Reject it as you may it is the truth.
          Christians who deny Muhammad deny Christ.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          What an inane and bold-faced LIE.

          If anything, accepting muhammad would be an act of *denying* Jesus Christ as LORD — since muhammad rejects the truth that Jesus is the Son of God; he also rejects His death on the cross; and muhammad also denies the Resurrection of Christ: all three of these aspects are essential tenets of the Christian faith.

          Also, Christians are to love the truth, and HATE evil …

          “Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.” — Romans 12:9

          And muhammad was wholly evil, and completely worthy of being HATED — since he was probably the most evil **criminal** that ever lived, and he was NOT a true prophet of God. No way!

          Get lost LIAR.

          Your *insane* and egregious lies are not welcome here.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 30, 2016 at 10:03 pm

          Everyone who speaks the truth gets called a liar and insane and to leave, my friend.

          Christ, Moses, Buddha, Krishna and Baha’u’llah all were called liars and insane.

        • Jay Boo says

          Jan 30, 2016 at 10:02 pm

          No worldcitizen1919

          Christians who deny Christ deny Christ.

          These sad characters are afraid to whisper the name of Jesus Christ around Muslims without first seeking approval of Christian beliefs.

          I saw one of these soft headed appeasers in a so-called friendly debate with a Muslim spokesperson to seek dialog on a typical libtard show some years back.
          The Muslim began with a disarming token display of friendliness followed by grievance mongering about Islamophobia in order to throw a verbal sucker punch at the naïve Christian. In this verbal sucker punch was very offensive and unprovoked angry attack on the Christian belief in Christ’s divinity. The sheepish Christian did not want to offend or be falsely accused of Islamophobia by the pandering host and remained silent.

          Muslims have absolutely no shame playing their vile Islam game.

        • occupant 9 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 1:34 am

          worldcitizen1919 says

          “Reject it as you may it is the truth.
          Christians who deny Muhammad deny Christ.”

          … thanks mohammedan but you forgot to add “or else.”

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 1:57 am

          I’m a Baha’i. I can prove that. I’ve been a Baha’i for 40 years.

          Baha’is accept all humanity as one family.

          If you know anything about Baha’is you would know we are peaceful people and don’t go around making threats. We have nothing to do with Muslims. Muslims kill us for our beliefs.

        • Champ says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 2:03 am

          worldcitizen1919 wrote:

          I’m a Baha’i. I can prove that. I’ve been a Baha’i for 40 years.

          Baha’is accept all humanity as one family.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Baha’is are basically “moral relativist” …

          And moral relativism is the belief that there’s no absolute truth, only the truths that a particular individual or culture happen to believe. If you believe in relativism, then you think different people can have different views about what’s moral and immoral.

          Essentially, “worldclassclown” doesn’t believe that anyone can do anything *wrong*, which explains why he defends the vilest of criminals: muhammad.

          However, in the end, the moral relativist has no satisfying answer in his/her attempt to respond to the question of if there is anything wrong with anything, and why. There is no standard to turn to and no authority to recognize and respect.

          “worldclassclown” is like a ship without a sail, and he will aimlessly wander the sea of life without any true sense of right or wrong, truth or lies, because in his twisted view it’s ALL the truth and ALL A-OK. Which is, of course, impossible.

          Ok so this better explains why “worldclassclown” won’t condemn muhammad’s evil crimes. In his twisted mind, muhammad had done nothing wrong. Rape? Not wrong in his view! Pedophilia? Not wrong in his view! Murder? Not wrong! Steeling? Not wrong! ..etc, etc

          Wow what a confused individual. Like I said, a ship without a sail …

        • dumbledoresarmy says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 2:30 am

          NONSENSE

          Damnable nonsense.

          Get. out.

          Stop talking nonsense.

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 4:40 pm

          “worldcitizen1919” has falsely claimed many times that he is somehow being censored at Jihad Watch–in reality, he has always been free to spew his bs here, as is amply in evidence on this thread.

          More rot:

          We have nothing to do with Muslims. Muslims kill us for our beliefs
          …………………………..

          The idea that he has “nothing to do with Muslims” is, of course, quite false. Baha’i are driven by the tenets of their creed to endlessly defend the vicious Muslim “Prophet” Muhammed, and to whitewash the Muslim holy book the Qur’an.

          The only truthful thing he has said here is that despite all of their sickening toadying to Islam that Muslims oppress and murder them because Baha’i is not orthodox Islam.

      • Laura says

        Jan 31, 2016 at 10:35 am

        Thank you Champ! Well done.

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 4:41 pm

          Thumbs up.

    • Godwin says

      Jan 30, 2016 at 6:45 pm

      “He was prophesied by both Moses and Jesus in the Old and New Testaments.” ——— You are lying through your skull cap.
      And he said that the sun sets in a pool of muddy water and to drink camel urine to cure diseases. Is that OK with you.?

      • gravenimage says

        Jan 30, 2016 at 8:38 pm

        I agree with DustyFae’s point, Champ–she just misread Godwin.

    • Champ says

      Jan 30, 2016 at 7:28 pm

      worldcitizen1919 wrote:

      There is nothing wrong with accepting Muhammad as He was prophesied by both Moses and Jesus in the Old and New Testaments.

      Christians who reject Muhammad are rejecting both Jesus and the Bible.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      This comment single-handedly *defines* “worldcitizen1919” as a profound LIAR, and void of any spiritual truth.

      • Karen says

        Jan 31, 2016 at 1:34 pm

        WC1919’s personal credibility has been reduced to ashes in his doomed attempt to use the Bible to promote Mohammad.

        John 14:6, Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 1:57 pm

          My credibility before God not man is what matters most to me.

          Say what you like. I’m just being honest and telling the truth.

          Abuse, accuse, whatever takes your fancy.

        • Champ says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 3:06 pm

          “worldclassclown” wouldn’t know the TRUTH if it bit him in his bee-hind.

          He wrote:

          “Abuse, accuse, whatever takes your fancy.”

          Well, now, this is an odd remark coming from someone that doesn’t see the criminal “abuse” from ‘prophet’ muhammad. Hmm, muhammad gets one pass — after another — in his twisted mind.

          And this isn’t “abuse” that he’s receiving, but the unvarnished truth in response to his blatant lies.

          You see, “worldclassclown”, freedom of speech works BOTH ways. Seems that you can dish out the lies, but you don’t like the feedback.

        • Karen says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 4:37 pm

          Yes, Islamists always equate critical thought and analysis with ‘abuse’ etc. WC1919 failed miserably in his earlier attempt to find Mohammad in the Bible, and cannot accept the resulting critiques. Personally, I have zero interest in anything he says from now on, and will ignore it.

    • gravenimage says

      Jan 30, 2016 at 7:38 pm

      “worldcitizen1919” wrote:

      There is nothing wrong with accepting Muhammad as He was prophesied by both Moses and Jesus in the Old and New Testaments.
      ………………………..

      What crap. This is something only Muslims and Baha’i claim. Christians have never believed in the vicious “Prophet” Muhammed.

      Unless, of course, he means it as a warning, which the Bible in fact *does* contain:

      “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves”
      –Gospel of Matthew 7:15

      Of course, the violent “Prophet” dispensed with his sheep’s clothing after decamping for Medina.

      More:

      Christians who reject Muhammad are rejecting both Jesus and the Bible.
      ………………………..

      This is disgusting even by the low standards of this Muslim apologist. Previously he has lauded the vicious “Prophet” Muhammed, but this is the first time he has actually *denigrated Christians* for not embracing his evil.

      And how much good has toadying to the “Prophet” Muhammed done Baha’i like “worldcitizen1919”? None at all–Baha’i are regularly oppressed and subjected to violence in Dar-al-Islam, and despite being native to Iran has had to headquarter in Israel, where the “filthy Infidel”: actually allow religious freedom.

      But none of this makes any difference to “worldcitizen1919”, who will kow tow to the vicious “Prophet” Muhammed with his dying breath. *Ugh*.

    • Mo says

      Jan 30, 2016 at 8:39 pm

      @ worldcitizen1919

      “There is nothing wrong with accepting Muhammad as He was prophesied by both Moses and Jesus in the Old and New Testaments.”

      Liar.

      “Christians who reject Muhammad are rejecting both Jesus and the Bible.”

      Liar.

      But even more to the point, can you explain to me why Christians would accept as a prophet someone who was a terrorist, a warlord, a murderer, a sex slave owner and a child rapist.

      You know nothing of Christianity. Stop promoting falsehoods here. Take your nonsense elsewhere. It is embarrassing to see such things posted in public. Thank you.

    • Mo says

      Jan 30, 2016 at 8:43 pm

      @ worldcitizen1919

      “There is nothing wrong with accepting Muhammad as He was prophesied by both Moses and Jesus in the Old and New Testaments.
      Christians who reject Muhammad are rejecting both Jesus and the Bible.”

      This made me so livid that I forgot a point. Can you explain to me why Christians should take as a prophet someone whose writings explictly deny the very foundations of the Christian faith? You know, things like the divinity of Christ, the Trinity, Christ’s crucifixion and resurrection?

      Answer me.

      You know you cannot and will not. How do I know that? Because you’ve never read the Bible in your LIFE and have no idea what it teaches about ANYTHING.

      Take your lies and your games elsewhere. I’ve about had it with you spreading misinformation and utter drivel on this site.

    • ballotcode says

      Jan 30, 2016 at 10:54 pm

      Prophesied as a false prophet, maybe, just as all the rest.
      Mohamed was ignorant of the fact that in verifying the Torah and Bible he set a trap for himself.
      While verifying the texts of Judaism and Christianity, he refutes his own book as being false.
      Mohamed was not even very clever about denying very fundamental theology that he asserts is true, then contradicts.
      Mohamed fits the profile of a false prophet as described in the books that he verifies.
      A foolish mistake, but then Mohamed was a foolish false prophet.

    • Rev g says

      Jan 31, 2016 at 3:47 am

      In telling Christians what they should believe, you are trying to dictate religion, you are claiming you know their own religion better than they do?
      Shame on you.

      • worldcitizen1919 says

        Jan 31, 2016 at 3:59 am

        I’m only telling the truth. That’s all. People can disagree with it. You can share your beliefs and I’m happy to listen to you.

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 4:37 am

          You wouldn’t know truth if it walked up and shook your hand.
          The idea that you or the false prophet bwa-ha-ha-ha would know more about Christianity than a studied Christian, or similar for other faiths, is absurd.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 6:03 am

          Caiphas was the most learned high priest of his time yet he condemned Jesus to death.

          Yet Peter an uneducated fisherman knew Whom Christ was.

          So religious learned men haven’t got a good reputation when it comes to judging God.

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 12:29 pm

          You greatly abridge events to make them appear to suit your agenda. Either you are a simpleton merely doing what you have been programmed to do and say, or are as big a huckter as Bahaullah.

        • Mike Proulx says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 12:44 pm

          Men have been trying to put God in a box since the fall, and have not succeeded. The One True God will make sure this never happens, this is why He sent us His only begotten Son Jesus the Christ. It’s all over with folks, this is why Jesus said on the Cross it is finish before giving up the ghost. Only repenting and seeking the Lord can we be saved, everything else is doomed for eternal destruction.

          Men have believed the lie in the garden and have bee deceived ever since, we can’t be god. We can be partakers with Him in Glory if we accept The Fathers plan of redeeming us.

          Seek he first the Kingdom of God and all of His Righteousness and everything else will be added onto you, is a powerful verse.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 1:53 pm

          Just telling the simple truth my friend.

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 4:02 pm

          Nope. You over-simplify to obscure the truth.
          When that fails you fall back on a Web of lies.

    • Janet says

      Jan 31, 2016 at 5:25 am

      Come again? Where in the Bible does it say anything about Muhammad?

      • worldcitizen1919 says

        Jan 31, 2016 at 6:13 am

        I’m happy to post it again if you want. but people just basically said I was insane and an idiot although I’m telling the truth.

        • mortimer says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 11:54 pm

          Is worldcitizen actually, clinically insane?

          Dr. Wafa Sutan, psychiatrist claimed that no one can admire Mohammed and be psychologically well at the same time.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 12:27 am

          Judge me how you like.

          I stand by Prophet Muhammad and the Quran as the infallible Word of God both sent by the one true God of the Jews and the Christians.

          Neither the Quran nor Muhammad are responsible for the vile acts of some Mulsims

          “Muhammad, the Apostle of God, bewaileth, in the all-highest Paradise, their acts.” ” (Baha’u’llah)

          A day shall be witnessed by My people,” their own traditions condemn them, “whereon there will have remained of Islám naught but a name, and of the Qur’án naught but a mere appearance. The doctors of that age shall be the most evil the world hath ever seen. Mischief hath proceeded from them, and on them it will recoil.”

          Excerpt From: Effendi, Shoghi. “The Promised Day Is Come.” Bahá’í eBooks

        • Rev g says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 5:58 am

          He is just telling the simple truth about you.
          Whether you accept it or not does not change that it is the truth.

  14. Angemon says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 6:27 pm

    Oh, the islamophobia!

    https://craigconsidinetcd.com/2016/01/30/these-tweets-show-that-violence-against-muslims-and-their-allies-is-real/

    • gravenimage says

      Jan 30, 2016 at 7:43 pm

      Notice he doesn’t even address the critique of Muhammed’s rape of a little-nine-year-old child–he just ignores it and hopes readers will assume the criticism is just more “Islamophobia”.

      • Angemon says

        Jan 31, 2016 at 10:16 am

        If he did that then he’d stop being invited to hang out with the cool people at parties and be branded as an “islamophobe”. Being a collaborationist is so much easier and profitable than being a truth-teller.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 11:11 am

          A’Ishah was 17-19 when she married Muhammad.

        • ECAW says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 11:18 am

          Just a bald assertion with no references at all to back it up. There was a time when I gave you the benefit of the doubt but you have shown beyond doubt what you are.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 1:18 pm

          The Quran was obeyed by Muhammad as He was a Prophet so the age of A’ishah when she was married was well within today’s legal,limits some put it at 19.

          This is why Baha’is don’t believe in Hadiths because if the recorder mis wrote the date of birth then it’s a major problem.

          I have a book called A’ishah which proves from many viewpoints that she was at least 17-19 when she married Muhammad.

          It seems too large to post as it goes into detail about who was where and cross references the years and events in detail to determine her age.

          There’s a link to a booklet at the very bottom of the page of the website in PDF form for you to go into depth if you want to question further.

          It’s here and I’ve already downloaded it. It has a watermark on the pages but I can read it on my iPad ok.

          http://www.mohammedamin.com/Reviews/Age-of-Aishah.html

          This is just an excerpt from a book I have called A’ishah to give you an idea of the kind of depth historians must go to to verify her true age. They have to check times and dates where she is known to have been present with other known dates to pinpoint what was true and if the Hadith is inaccurate.

          You’ll have to decide for yourself if you will give it the benefit of the doubt. I’m happy to do that but because I know Muhammad wouldn’t go against the Quran.

          This us the best I can do because I don’t defend Hadiths but historians can disprove this so that’s for them to do. Muhammad’s Prophethood suffices me.

          From the book A’isha an excerpt:

          “Here there is another critical piece of information. The age difference between Aisha and her sister Asma was 10 years. 433 According to this, Aisha’s year of birth was 605 (595+10=605) and her age at the time of the Hijra was 17 (27–10=17). Since her marriage took place six, seven or eight months after the Hijra, or just after Badr, 434 this means Aisha was 17-18 years old at that time.”

          Reports to the effect that she died in the 58th year after the Hijra and that she was 74 when she died give the impression that they are sounder than others because they give detailed information such as the day she died as being Wednesday, that it corresponded to the 17th day of Ramadan,

          Therefore, when calculations are made according to this date, we see she lived 48 years after the Prophet’s death (48+10=58+13=71+3=74). This means she was born three years before his Prophethood and, in view of this information, she was 17 when she married (74–48=26–9=17).

          Aisha, may God be pleased with her, was born in 605, engaged at the age of 14 or 15 and married at the age of 17 or 18 is too strong to be ignored.

        • ECAW says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 2:22 pm

          “The Quran was obeyed by Muhammad as He was a Prophet so the age of A’ishah when she was married was well within today’s legal,limits some put it at 19.”

          So Mohammed was a prophet
          Therefore he obeyed the Koran
          Therefore the age of Aisha was within today’s legal limits
          Therefore Bahais don’t believe the hadiths.

          Great line of reasoning there.

          And I don’t think I’ll bother with something from the Islamic Propagation Centre.

          You are a great disappointment to me WC.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 6:36 pm

          To me it’s clear that Muhammad did nothing wrong and obeyed the laws of the Quran with regards to marriage.

          You asked for more information so I provided some by historians views on the subject that’s all.

        • Champ says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 2:08 am

          “worldclassclown” wrote:

          To me it’s clear that Muhammad did nothing wrong and obeyed the laws of the Quran with regards to marriage.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Only a Godless, heartless, soulless & moralless person would think this way about that evil criminal: muhammad.

          Fool — muhammad was NOT a true prophet of God, so when are you going get that through your thick skull? muhammad was nothing more than a “false prophet”, the kind that Jesus warned us about!

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 2:28 am

          Dear Champ,

          I really appreciate your words of advise and I really believe that people here have good intentions as they are all against the scourge of EVIL terrorism as I am too.

          But I discovered about 40 years ago that both Moses and Christ foretold Muhammad in the Bible and also that He was from God as was the Quran.

          The people who commit atrocities do so in name only. They don’t really respect or love Muhammad at all. It’s a political campaign using religion as an excuse to enlist people who think they are joining an army of God when it is really an army of SATAN.

          The Quran does not condone ther acts. And Muhammad deplores their acts.

          “Muhammad, the Apostle of God, bewaileth, in the all-highest Paradise, their acts.” ” (Baha’u’llah)

          A day shall be witnessed by My people,” their own traditions condemn them, “whereon there will have remained of Islám naught but a name, and of the Qur’án naught but a mere appearance. The doctors of that age shall be the most evil the world hath ever seen. Mischief hath proceeded from them, and on them it will recoil.”

          You can find this Islamic tradition in the Internet. It’s well known.

          Excerpt From: Effendi, Shoghi. “The Promised Day Is Come.” Bahá’í eBooks

        • Rev g says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 6:06 am

          Bahaullah was a polygamist con man who thought he could soft-peddle around Islam and save his hide. It didn’t work.
          He was just another false prophet like Moe-hamad. Not as physically malignant, so I guess he was Moe-lite.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 6:24 am

          Time will tell. Let’s not be too hasty to judge.

          I really appreciate your statements, judgements, condemnations etc.

          I believe most people have a lot of untapped goodness in them and you make some bc very challenging comments RIGHTFULLy and I wouldn’t expect you to do otherwise.

          But bottom line is I welcome criticism with open arms. Do you belong to any Faith because we could always talk about that and share views on that.

        • Rev g says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 6:41 am

          Time has told. It is a simple assessment of facts. It is the truth.
          It is not harsh, it is factual truth.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 6:54 am

          Time has told me that Baha’u’llah is the Promised One foretold by Jesus.

        • Rev g says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 7:01 am

          Ignorance is bliss.
          Truth must be the name of your talking bird.

        • Rev g says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 7:19 am

          Shoghi died without children. God guided mankind and proved Bahaullah a liar.
          No failed prophet is a Promised One.
          No failed prophet is Jesus, metaphorically, symbolically, or literally.
          Your Bab is a con man and liar. Fact, not conjecture.
          It can be exceedingly difficult to accept that you have bought into a lie whole-heartedly
          Acceptance is the answer. Good luck At least you know that Jesus is the Savior. Now you know that Bab is in no way related to Jesus. Leave the imposter behind and find the truth..

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 8:48 am

          At least we have something in common that is Jesus.

        • Rev g says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 9:19 am

          No, we don’t. You affiliate Jesus with Bahaullah, and that is repugnant.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 9:48 am

          How about we have our humanity in common? I’m not an alien I don’t think!

        • Rev g says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 10:35 am

          I’m not buying that.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 5:21 pm

          Then I’m happy to accept criticism and reviling and anything else and even be an outcast because there’s very few as lucky as I am. So I accept all your compliments and extending of warm friendship as a token that you truly believe in God and Jesus Christ. If you didn’t believe in Jesus as saviour you wouldn’t be so nice to me.

          I believe in Jesus Christ but I’m not a supremist.

          “At that time, whatever may befall him in the love of God, of reproach, persecution, reviling, abuse, insult, beating, imprisonment or assassination, will not offend him; rather it will augment his attraction to the Beauty of God” Abdul-Baha

        • Rev g says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 5:52 pm

          Having read your comments here, your claim not to be a supremist (sic) comes across as an empty claim
          That you run a saccharine deception is of no question, shades of your religious leader .

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 6:14 pm

          Oneness of all humanity – in other words all humanity are the children of God.

        • rev g says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 7:43 pm

          Your sales pitch isn’t working here.

      • Champ says

        Feb 1, 2016 at 2:47 am

        “worldclassclown” is a lying snake oil salesman.

        And he assumes a lot by thinking that I’d fall for …”Dear Champ” routine. Nope, not falling for his sweet-talk schtick. Yuk.

        “worldclassclown” is a pathological LIAR, and without question he’s even more devious than most I’ve encountered here on Jihad Watch over the past 10+ years.

        Go. Away. Liar.

        Lies and disinformation are NOT welcome here.

        However the truth is very welcome here, but “worldclassclown” is incapable of truthfulness. And he is all over the map with his lies — he can’t even keep THOSE straight.

        Get lost. You’re boring.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 3:16 am

          Why are you so insulting? I’m only trying to be polite. No ones selling anything just sharing views and opinions.

        • Rev g says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 6:13 am

          Insulting? Perhaps to his beliefs he is complimenting you. From my perspective he is just relating simple truth, and truth cannot be insulting, it is truth.
          Why are you not more accepting of this simple truth?

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 6:28 am

          Yes, Maybe It was a compliment after all. I think you’re right.

  15. Fred says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 6:29 pm

    Muhummad a prophet? Of what pray tell? Peace? Then why do his inbred basement level intelligent quotient acolytes destoy everthing in their path, make war on non believers (which today’s Christians do not) and treat everyone as possible slaves?

    • Jack says

      Jan 31, 2016 at 10:32 pm

      Worldcitizen1919 =you aren’t trying to propagate the idea in English, when all that matters is the Arabic version, that Aisha was 6 when she married Mohammed and consummated the marriage at 9? You are going to stick by this assertion only because we are infidels and you assume we are ignorant about the Quran, Hadith and Suha. The 1st word that comes to my mind is tiqqyah. By the way, as a Jew I can with 100% certainty tell you Moshe or as you know him Musa was not a Prophet foretelling Mohammed and Islam. If it makes you happy keep believing whatever.
      This is either the Twilight Zone or the Outter Limits. I’m signing out while I’m still civil.

  16. somehistory says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 6:33 pm

    Might as well just say he’s moslim in a thin disguise. Like the Eagles sang, “You can’t hide your lying eyes. There ain’t no way to hide your lying eyes.”
    A true Christian wouldn’t even suggest what he is advocating.

    Basically, his ramblings reveal that he doesn’t know what he believes, nor what it means to be Christian.
    He’s allowing himself to be “blown about by every wind of teaching,” pretending that the murdering raper of children had redeeming qualities, attributing to the murderer traits that he not only didn’t have, but killed others for having them, and claimed he might be the ‘greatest human to walk the face of the earth.’

    He is allowing himself to be used by satan the devil…just as all devout moslims do.

    And, just in case he never read about it, there are punishments decreed by Jehovah God, whose Prophet was Christ, for those who are *false prophets.* And the Bible describes in detail what is necessary for one to be a *true prophet.*

    The murdering raper of children was, if he really existed, was a false prophet, if he could be said to be a prophet at all. To be a prophet of God, one must tell the truth. The murderer and raper of children didn’t do that and taught his followers that lying is necessary.

    This guy, looking really silly, writes nothing but drivel and has no authority to tell Christians anything about how to live a Christian life.

  17. Dave L says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 6:35 pm

    CHEVY CHASE, CHURCH OF THE CONFUSED.
    Only difference is that this pup is profoundly pretentious.

  18. Mike Proulx says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 6:41 pm

    All I know is that Jesus died for the redemption of mankind by the shedding of His blood on a Cross.in Calvary.

    He rose again on the 3rd day. He conquered death and Hell and He then ascended to Heaven after 40 days and is now seated on the Right hand of God the Father. He was received up in Glory because He was without fault, perfect and up-right in every way, Holy acceptable unto the Father.

    Mohamed did non of those things for anyone. Interesting to note that true Christians serve the Lord willingly, and the Islamic religion want to enslave.

    Christian need to pray for Muslims to come to know the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal saviour and flee the bondage of religion which only brings death and much sorrow.

    Many Christians are also in bondage and don’t have a personal relationship with the Lord. They also need prayers.

    God help those whom are delusional and to know the true freedom in knowing the Truth of the Gospel.of Jesus Christ.

    The Holy book, the Bible has all the answers for mankind.
    Amen and Amen

    • Laura says

      Jan 31, 2016 at 10:40 am

      Amain.

  19. Dave L says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 6:42 pm

    I just went over to HuffPo to see if liberals swallowed this guy’s messy thinking. I was pleasantly surprised. His nonsense was exposed as nonsense just as much by HuffPo readers as by JihadWatch readers.
    Imagine that.

    • gravenimage says

      Jan 30, 2016 at 7:49 pm

      Dave, I’ve been pleasantly surprised by most of the comments. Even at the HuffPo, most are not accepting this bs, and understand that Muhammed was a violent figure.

  20. gravenimage says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 7:06 pm

    Huffington Post: Christians should accept Muhammad as a prophet
    ………………………….

    Firstly, Christianity has no need of further prophets.

    But in the scheme of things, this is actually a comparatively minor point. There are many who have claimed some sort of “prophet” standing over the past two millenia–and some of them espouse values that mesh just fine with Christian ones.

    If Christians decided to accept any one of them as “prophets”, this would be fairly ridiculous, and certainly not theologically correct–but it would not do actual violence to Christianity in the moral sense.

    But the vicious “Prophet” Muhammed?

    He was a warlord, caravan raider, rapist, pedophile, slaver and mass murderer–everything he stood for is *diametrically opposed* to Christian morals.

    More:

    And so once again Craig Considine, who has likened Muhammad to George Washington, hailed Muhammad as a “universal champion of human rights”…
    ………………………….

    *Ludicrous* false whitewash of the baleful Islamic “Prophet”.

    More:

    Muslims must recognize Jesus as a prophet of God, as laid out explicitly in the Qur’an. Muslims are’t [sic] at risk of anything when they say “I believe in Jesus.” However, if we switched the situation (“I’m a Christian. I believe in Muhammad as a prophet”), people might start to question my credibility as a self-professed Christian. People might say, “Jesus is the only way. You’ve turned your back on God. You’re no longer Christian.”

    Note the sleight of hand. Considine suggests that Islam is more open-minded and generous than Christianity, since Muslims can say “I believe in Jesus”…
    ………………………….

    What utter bs. And it is not just–as noted–that Muslims do not recognize Jesus as the Son of God, and as the Savior. They also don’t recognize him as a healer or a peacemaker–in fact, the Muslim “Jesus”–really, “Isa”–is *nothing* like the Jesus of the Gospels.

    Instead, his main role is that in the Last Days he will offer Christians a choice–to convert to Islam or die. That is, his main role is to *Kill Christians*.

    Does the brainless dhimmi Craig Considine fail to understand this–or does he just not care?

    More:

    I’m writing this piece to explain why I disagree with the idea that Christians can’t recognize Muhammad as a prophet. Really, what is in question here is the definition of “prophet.” “Prophet” can be defined as “a person regarded as an inspired teacher or proclaimer of the will of God.” Outside of the dictionary, I’ve always understood “prophet” to mean a messenger of a Higher Power who works on earth to bring justice and peace to humanity.

    Let me say this right off the bat: I fully recognize Muhammad’s greatness. He was an exceptional person; he might even be the greatest and most influential human being ever to walk the face of the earth. Prophet Muhammad brought love, peace, and much more to a part of the world that had little of these things.

    Odd, then, if Muhammad brought love and peace, why the Islamic world is in flames…
    ………………………….

    *Very* true. One can only consider the violent “Prophet” Muhammed to have been “great” in the sense that Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Genghis Khan, or Attila the Hun were “great”.

    More:

    One of the most overlooked aspects of Muhammad’s character is his fierce anti-racist stance. He made the unprecedented move of considering both white people and black people as equals in the eyes of God.
    ………………………….

    Just laughable. Muhammed himself referred to Black people as “abds”–slaves” and denigrated them as “raisin heads”–and worse, as noted, kept Black slaves himself.

    And Muslims were primarily responsible for the terrible African slave trade, which they practiced *for centuries*. Nor is it over today, as “Arab” Muslims in Sudan enslave Black Christians and animists.

    More:

    …aside from claiming to have the last and universal truth, other aspects of Muhammad’s message that rub some Christians (and others) the wrong way are warfare against unbelievers, hatred of Jews, women’s inferiority, and more. But Craig Considine thinks so little of his readers that he doesn’t consider such things even to dismiss them.
    ………………………….

    That’s the whole point. It’s not that Christians are narrowly focused on Jesus–like that’s a bad thing!–it’s that everything about Islam and its vicious “Prophet” is opposed to the message of Christ.

    More:

    However, I see nothing “anti-Christian” in recognizing Muhammad as a prophet. As I mentioned earlier, I like to view the word “prophet” as having a very broad meaning. In fact, I don’t even like to place it in the realm of “religion,” especially not in the Abrahamic tradition. To me, a prophet is someone who has valuable insight and intuition, who is sensitive about the well-being of others regardless of their ethnic or religious backgrounds.

    Even by that standard Muhammad fails.
    ………………………….

    This is *exactly* the point. There is *nothing* Christian about Muhammed, in either the theological or even popular sense. By Christian standards, in fact, everything he preached was *evil*.

    More:

    When I read the Qur’an, I don’t interpret it as a book for Muslims, but rather for all human beings.
    ………………………….

    Oh, but it *is* meant for all human being. For supremacist Muslims to rule, and to oppress, enslave, and murder Infidels.

    In fact, the Qur’an specifically codifies Islamic hatred of Jews and Christians.

    More:

    All this windy gobbledegook amounts to is that Craig Considine is neither a Christian nor a Muslim in any recognizable or genuine sense, but is fashioning his own religion, placing himself as the judge and arbiter of the validity of what Jesus and Muhammad say. He is ill-equipped for this, however, if he thinks “Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you” is “equally valuable” as “Slay the idolaters wherever you find them.”
    ………………………….

    He also doesn’t understand, “He must turn away from evil and do good”, As Craig Considine would have it, they are one and the same, and both to be equally “respected”.

    • aaronmorand says

      Jan 30, 2016 at 9:31 pm

      the one thing that i haven*t read so far and as said in the Bible regarding a “prophet”,
      is that if the prophets prophisies were false, then he was to be “stoned”…instead of
      throwing rocks at satan in mecca, perhaps the muzzies should throw some rocks at mohammeds finger also in mecca…he is the one who has caused them so much
      blood shed and trouble…he was a liar and worse to even his own people…what a joke
      these “wild ass” people are….hee-haw……

    • Mazo says

      Jan 31, 2016 at 11:52 am

      LOL at westerners trying to turn the attention on blacks.

      Arabs view all non-Arabs as inferior. Europeans are also viewed as inferior third class bimbos by Arabs, maybe blacks are in fifth class.

      Arabs used European slaves as eunuchs and concubines in their harems.

      There is no need to turn the attention on blacks. You are inferior to an Arab according to Arabs.

      Try getting citizenship in Saudi Arabia. They won’t let you.

      • gravenimage says

        Jan 31, 2016 at 4:50 pm

        Once again, the appalling Muslim supremacist Mazo is crowing over Arab racism. How sickening–he has done that here before.

        • Wellington says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 5:21 pm

          In a more expansive vein, gravenimage, I would note again how every time a Muslim apologist posts here at JW it never has the effect of putting Islam in a better light, of making any of us who have assiduously studied Islamic tenets and find Islam appalling soften our take on Mo”s creed. In fact, quite the opposite is invariably the result. This is in and of itself telling and damning respecting the true worth of Islam.

          I don’t think any truly cogent case can be made for this wretched faith. Might as well try to make a case for Marxism or Nazism as make a case for Islam, which is a plague upon the entire world, and which plague has now has reached epidemic proportions in the West. Hope you’re doing well my fellow despiser of the worst religion of all time. In the meantime, I’m still waiting for some apologist for Islam to soften my take on it. Has happened yet.

        • gravenimage says

          Feb 2, 2016 at 6:12 pm

          Wellington wrote:

          In a more expansive vein, gravenimage, I would note again how every time a Muslim apologist posts here at JW it never has the effect of putting Islam in a better light
          ……………………….

          This is *very* true, Wellington. Despite how disgusting they often are, I rather welcome Muslims posting here–so often they simply cannot help themselves from revealing how morally wretched Islam is, even when their aim is apologia and whitewash.

      • Wellington says

        Jan 31, 2016 at 5:03 pm

        Who the hell would want Saudi Arabian citizenship? No one who prizes liberty ever would. As for Arabs thinking they’re superior, my God, they are the single most dysfunctional major people on the planet, bar none. If indeed they think themselves superior to all others this tends to prove 1) they do live in a fantasy world of their own making; and 2) Islam, as has often been argued by many, is a cover for Arab supremacism.

  21. Mick Rusty says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 7:12 pm

    Sorry to bust your bubble but can you give me one word of prophecy that muhammad gave that came to pass?

    Just in case you need a reference what a prophet looks like, read this.

    1 Kings 18:25-40
    Now Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, “Choose one bull for yourselves and prepare it first, for you are many; and call on the name of your god, but put no fire under it.”
    So they took the bull which was given them, and they prepared it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even till noon, saying, “O Baal, hear us!” But there was no voice; no one answered. Then they leaped about the altar which they had made.
    And so it was, at noon, that Elijah mocked them and said, “Cry aloud, for he is a god; either he is meditating, or he is busy, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is sleeping and must be awakened.” So they cried aloud, and cut themselves, as was their custom, with knives and lances, until the blood gushed out on them. And when midday was past, they prophesied until the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice. But there was no voice; no one answered, no one paid attention.
    Then Elijah said to all the people, “Come near to me.” So all the people came near to him. And he repaired the altar of the Lord that was broken down. And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, to whom the word of the Lord had come, saying, “Israel shall be your name.” Then with the stones he built an altar in the name of the Lord; and he made a trench around the altar large enough to hold two seahs of seed. And he put the wood in order, cut the bull in pieces, and laid it on the wood, and said, “Fill four waterpots with water, and pour it on the burnt sacrifice and on the wood.” Then he said, “Do it a second time,” and they did it a second time; and he said, “Do it a third time,” and they did it a third time. So the water ran all around the altar; and he also filled the trench with water.
    And it came to pass, at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near and said, “Lord God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, let it be known this day that You are God in Israel and I am Your servant, and that I have done all these things at Your word. Hear me, O Lord, hear me, that this people may know that You are the Lord God, and that You have turned their hearts back to You again.”
    Then the fire of the Lord fell and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood and the stones and the dust, and it licked up the water that was in the trench. Now when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces; and they said, “The Lord, He is God! The Lord, He is God!”
    And Elijah said to them, “Seize the prophets of Baal! Do not let one of them escape!” So they seized them; and Elijah brought them down to the Brook Kishon and executed them there.

  22. dragaozao says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 7:21 pm

    Confusion, confusion and confusion (mixed with ignorance). Liberal minds are victims of their own ideology. PC cause brain damages. No wonder this guy can’t define himself.

  23. Arthur says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 7:25 pm

    After years of “creative writing” courses where teachers instruct high school and college students that the sole measure of persuasive writing is its uniqueness and ability to create vauge feelings of a warm righteousness, we have the fully developed Craig Considine. Witness the arrogance of narcissists who believe that anything they write becomes reality, and that no truth exists beyond the perceptions they can fabricate. Dreams written and published by dreamers, not to be confused with truth, reality or fact. His writings should come with a footnote disclaiming the content as pure fantasy.

    Undoubtedly, Craig found math and science to be excessively confining during his education.

    • Mockingjay says

      Jan 30, 2016 at 7:47 pm

      I saw your post after I’d written mine, and as I think we sort of are adressing the same issue, I can only say I totally agree with you!

  24. Mockingjay says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 7:40 pm

    I can only wonder if these people ever read books.
    They think theyre so damn intellectual and well-read – but they never EVER seem to read ANYTHING that doesn’t concord with what they’re already knowing to be “the truth”.
    Why does none of these people pick up a book by Robert Spencer, or by any of the many well-informed people and scholars -like Christoph Luxenberg- who have studied, f.e. the origins of islam? Why is there not even an OUNCE of curiousity in them to find out for themselves what the “other side” is talking about? You don’t have to agree with everything you read, but you might at least give the material a fair chance.
    None of this.
    They just keep thinking what they have always been thinking, and are thereby enabling the destruction of everything that is good and true in the world.

  25. gravenimage says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 7:59 pm

    There’s some more interesting stuff at the end of Craig Considine’s HuffPo article:

    Let me wrap this up by returning to the question: Is Prophet Muhammad worthy of admiration among Christians? I believe he is. His central concern was to lead mankind on the “right path.” By right path, I mean justice, mercy, compassion, love, tranquility, and peace. For these reasons, I elevate him to “prophet status.”
    …………………………………

    Of course, the “right path” in Islam has *nothing* to do with any of this. Instead, the “path of Allah” refers to murdering innocent Infidels in the name of that vicious deity.

    More:

    In conclusion, as a Christian, I don’t see my “religion” or “faith” as having a rigid set of principles.
    …………………………………

    Get *this*–he doesn’t believe a Christian should have a consistent set of principles–no wonder he believes Christians can and should *embrace evil*. *Ugh*.

    More:

    To push that boundary of “Christian identity” is to pave the way for a future that makes more room for the “Other.” Isn’t that what prophets expect of us anyways?
    …………………………………

    If by the “other” he means good people who just happen to look or sound different from ourselves, sure–that’s what the parable of the Good Samaritan was all about.

    But if that “other” is people who embrace a creed that mandates the enslavement and murder of innocent people, not so much…

  26. Jordan Mormon says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 8:26 pm

    How bout you accept Joseph Smith as a prophet. He continuously and openly preached that Jesus Christ was the Son of God and savior of the world. The creator of the universe even. But people say I am not Christian because I embrace him as a prophet. People just can’t quit can they.. Smh

    • mortimer says

      Feb 1, 2016 at 12:03 am

      Joseph Smith self-consciously imitated Mohammed, polygamy, fabricated scriptures, angel messenger and all. Joseph Smith was a cunning liar like Mohammed and was murdered by his followers when they found they had been tricked. Mohammed was murdered by his two closest followers and buried under his bed in the middle of the night.

      80% of humans have no respect for Mohammed. Coincidence? Or a reasonable evaluation of FACTS?

      • gravenimage says

        Feb 2, 2016 at 6:20 pm

        Mormons early on had a nasty habit of murdering apostates, as well.

        It was only when the mainstream Church of LDS rejected these vile tenets that Mormonism was able to join the ranks of civilized faiths.

  27. Wellington says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 8:29 pm

    Show me a Christian who extends respect to the Profiteer Mohammed and I’ll show you an ignorant human being.

    Show me a Buddhist who extends respect to the Profiteer Mohammed and I’ll show you an ignorant human being.

    Show me a Jew who extends respect to the Profiteer Mohammed and I’ll show you an ignorant human being.

    Show me a non-religious person who extends respect to the Profiteer Mohammed and I’ll show you an ignorant human being.

    Show me…………. Well, I think what I’m trying to say here is pretty clear by now.

    Mohammed’s character should be treated with very skeptically, in fact reviled. No one of sense and knowledge should admire a person who clearly demonstrated psychopathic and narcissistic tendencies as the character of Mohammed indubitably indicates. Other religious and ethical founders like Jesus, Buddha, Confucius and Lao-tzu are at least worthy of not being despised. Actually, I would argue that all here are worthy of at least some approbation, if not a fulsome amount. By contrast, no approval should be extended to Mohammed minus noting a diabolical cleverness, which also could characterize other highly influential malevolencies in history like Lenin, Stalin, Hitler and Mao. It is with these latter historical figures that the Profiteer Mohammed should be classed. Indeed, one could argue with grim humor that he’s the “best” of this bunch. Unfortunately, people like Craig Considine will almost certainly never “get” any of this.

    Ah, insouciant ignorance on a grand scale is a wonder to behold at times, Often damn destructive too. Very, since it gives good cover to evil. Herein lies the real legacy of someone like Craig Considine. It’s a legacy not to be envied. I for one certainly don’t.

    • worldcitizen1919 says

      Jan 30, 2016 at 9:50 pm

      The Baha’i Faith and Baha’is uphold and defend the truth of Muhammad and the Quran. (Not Hadiths)

      The west was always handed down false prejudiced, biased and often spiteful and hateful infirmation about Muhammad and Islam. Some by Christian priests and others by biased writers.

      ISIS is not Islam, neither is terrorism. Bloodshed has just as much been spilled by other Faiths if we be fair. To single out an entire Faith for the crimes of a few is nothing but trial by media. 1.6 billion Muslims are not terrorists or evil. They are GOOD people and it’s because of the Quran.

      Baha’u’llah the Promised return of Christ in the glory of the Fatheer has this to say of Muhammad and He speaks to truth and all else is slander and false inuendo.

      “Blessing and peace be upon Him [Muhammad] through Whose advent Bathá [Mecca] is wreathed in smiles, and the sweet savours of Whose raiment have shed fragrance upon all mankind– He Who came to protect men from that which would harm them in the world below. Exalted, immensely exalted is His station above the glorification of all beings and sanctified from the praise of the entire creation. Through His advent the tabernacle of stability and order was raised throughout the world and the ensign of knowledge hoisted among the nations. May blessings rest also upon His kindred and His companions through whom the standard of the unity of God and of His singleness was uplifted and the banners of celestial triumph were unfurled. Through them the religion of God was firmly established among His creatures and His Name magnified amidst His servants.”

      – Tablets of Baha’u’llah revealed after the Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 162

      • Rev g says

        Jan 30, 2016 at 10:01 pm

        I only need reference the Quran and maybe the Reliance of the Traveler to know plenty enough.

      • Jay Boo says

        Jan 30, 2016 at 10:16 pm

        Are we supposed to be impressed that Muhammad claimed Jesus Christ as a “lesser prophet” in order to elevate himself.

        Muhammad would say anything to get what he wanted. He prayed toward Jerusalem and adopted Jewish customs then murdered the Jews of Medina and prayed toward Mecca instead. He had suicidal fits and said the devil tricked him into worship of pagan gods in the satanic verses.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 30, 2016 at 10:46 pm

          The Prophets complemented each other and foretold one another as they were from the same one God.

          It’s human immaturity to cling to such things as supremacy. Christ and Moses and Muhammad all taught truth but for different ages and times in history.

          None were superior to the others. That is what we Baha’is believe. The only difference is in the intensity of their Revelation. Man is given more and more knowledge from God as his capacity grows.

          Christ taught mainly love, Muhammad was about Community and nationhood and Baha’u’llah about the oneness of mankind. So we love each other and our country and the world. No real contradictions.

          But supremists want to insist that their truth must conquer the world and only their truth is the right one. Fundamentalism is destructive and even Pope Francis said that people must see each other as a family and stop this nonsense of he or she or they are evil.

          Yes terrorists are evil but not 1.6 billion Muslims and their entire religion. That is ludicrous and any intelligent person can separate the two but some generalise and throw the baby out with the bath water which is unfortunate.

        • Champ says

          Jan 30, 2016 at 11:04 pm

          “worldclassclown” is simply a *wealth* of disinformation and bold-faced lies.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 12:14 am

          nice to know I’m appreciated around here and all the people here are so courteous and welcoming!

          You make Jihad Watch look like a very friendly place who are open minded and fair and just in their judgements and who don’t condemn and judge others.

        • Champ says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 12:35 am

          worldcitizen1919 wrote:

          nice to know I’m appreciated around here and all the people here are so courteous and welcoming!

          You make Jihad Watch look like a very friendly place who are open minded and fair and just in their judgements and who don’t condemn and judge others.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Of course the gross lies and disinformation from “worldcitizen” are not welcome here.

          And apparently the unvarnished TRUTH about evil muhammad is too hot for “worldcitizen” to handle. Poor dear.

          Sorry if the TRUTH about muhammad hurts, but he was merely a notorious criminal, and *not* a true prophet of God. And no amount of whining, disinformation and lies — from “worldclassclown” — is going to change the status quo.

        • Champ says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 12:50 am

          I wrote:

          “…but he was merely a notorious criminal, and *not* a true prophet of God.”

          Correction: mohammad wasn’t “merely” a notorious criminal, but probably the *worst* and most *vile* criminal that ever lived. Hey I think it’s important to give credit, where credit is due.

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 4:58 pm

          More from “worldcitzen1919”:

          nice to know I’m appreciated around here and all the people here are so courteous and welcoming!

          You make Jihad Watch look like a very friendly place who are open minded and fair and just in their judgements and who don’t condemn and judge others.
          …………………………….

          This is Jihad Watch–the entire purpose of this site is to oppose the terrible threat of Jihad.

          That “worldcitizen1919” pretends we are not friendly or nice here because we dare to oppose what Muslims base their practice of violence, rape, enslavement, and murder on is simply grotesque.

          I suppose seventy years ago he would chide us for not being welcoming enough to supporters of Fascism who whitewash Adolf Hitler…

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 6:57 pm

          Then why in earth is the site insidiously trying to link Muhammad and the Quran to terrorism??

          The Quran and Muhammad have nothing to do with terrorism it’s Hadiths which are to blame. The Quran does not support offensive warfare in any of its verses.

          Terrorism is just being used as an umbrella to attack and discredit Muhammad and the Quran because the gist of posts here don’t attack terrorism but Muhammad and the Quran which is false and being used as a scapegoat

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 7:40 pm

          We deal in the simple truth here, we leave flights into the fantasy world for you

        • gravenimage says

          Feb 2, 2016 at 6:23 pm

          “worldcitizen1919” wrote:

          The Prophets complemented each other and foretold one another as they were from the same one God.

          It’s human immaturity to cling to such things as supremacy. Christ and Moses and Muhammad all taught truth but for different ages and times in history.

          None were superior to the others.
          ……………………….

          In other words, this creep believes there is no difference between good and evil, and that concern for the difference is “immature”. *Ugh*.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 2, 2016 at 8:38 pm

          Im just saying not all 1.6 billion Muslims as terrorists or evil.

        • Champ says

          Feb 2, 2016 at 6:44 pm

          worldcitizen1919 says
          January 31, 2016 at 6:57 pm

          Then why in earth is the site insidiously trying to link Muhammad and the Quran to terrorism??

          The Quran and Muhammad have nothing to do with terrorism it’s Hadiths which are to blame. The Quran does not support offensive warfare in any of its verses.

          Terrorism is just being used as an umbrella to attack and discredit Muhammad and the Quran because the gist of posts here don’t attack terrorism but Muhammad and the Quran which is false and being used as a scapegoat

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          More **outrageous** lies and/or disinformation from “worlclassclown” …

          The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called ‘hypocrites’ and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

          Here are but a handful of said verses from the Quran:

          Quran (2:191-193) – “And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing…
          but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)” (Translation is from the Noble Quran) The verse prior to this (190) refers to “fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you” leading some to believe that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families. The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). Verse 190 thus means to fight those who offer resistance to Allah’s rule (ie. Muslim conquest). The use of the word “persecution” by some Muslim translators is disingenuous (the actual Arabic words for persecution – “idtihad” – and oppression – a variation of “z-l-m” – do not appear in the verse). The word used instead, “fitna”, can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. This is certainly what is meant in this context since the violence is explicitly commissioned “until religion is for Allah” – ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

          Quran (2:244) – “Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things.”

          Quran (2:216) – “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.” Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

          Quran (3:56) – “As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.”

          Quran (3:151) – “Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority”. This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be ‘joining companions to Allah’).

          Quran (4:74) – “Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.” The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today’s suicide bombers.

          Quran (4:76) – “Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…”

          Quran (4:89) – “They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”

          Quran (4:95) – “Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home).Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward ” This passage criticizes “peaceful” Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah’s eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that “Jihad” doesn’t mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is this Arabic word (mujahiduna) used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man’s protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad, which would not make sense if it meant an internal struggle).

          Quran (4:104) – “And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain…” Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

          Quran (5:33) – “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement”

          Quran (8:12) – “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them” No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

          Quran (8:15) – “O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey’s end.”

          Quran (8:39) – “And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion is all for Allah” Some translations interpret “fitna” as “persecution”, but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:193). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there – just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad’s intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until “religion is only for Allah”, meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that “Allah must have no rivals.”

          Quran (8:57) – “If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember.”

          Quran (8:67) – “It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land…”

          Quran (8:59-60) – “And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah’s Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy.”

          Quran (8:65) – “O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight…”

          Quran (9:5) – “So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them.” According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion’s Five Pillars). This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months). The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat. Once the Muslims had power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.

          Quran (9:14) – “Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people.” Humiliating and hurting non-believers not only has the blessing of Allah, but it is ordered as a means of carrying out his punishment and even “healing” the hearts of Muslims.

          Quran (9:20) – “Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah’s way are of much greater worth in Allah’s sight. These are they who are triumphant.” The Arabic word interpreted as “striving” in this verse is the same root as “Jihad”. The context is obviously holy war.

          Quran (9:29) – “Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” “People of the Book” refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. Verse 9:33 tells Muslims that Allah has charted them to make Islam “superior over all religions.” This chapter was one of the final “revelations” from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad’s companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.

          Quran (9:30) – “And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!”

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “worldclassclown” is a LIAR, plain and simple.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 2, 2016 at 9:01 pm

          Islam was oppressed and the Quraysh attempted fenocide and to exterminate the entire Muslim community.

          All of the Quran is about defensive war not offensive war.

        • Angemon says

          Feb 4, 2016 at 6:13 pm

          worldcitizen1919 posted:

          “Islam was oppressed and the Quraysh attempted fenocide and to exterminate the entire Muslim community.

          All of the Quran is about defensive war not offensive war.”

          Huh, no. The Meccans ran muhammad and his cronies outta Mecca ’cause he was, well, a dick – ranting and insulting the Gods the Meccans worshipped. And when the Meccans got sick and tired and started to reply in kind, he got a “revelation” telling his followers not to insult the Gods of the Meccans lest they insulted his back (6:108). And when he ran outta Mecca to Yathrib, the Meccans were glad that was over. Except it wasn’t, and he started raiding their caravans.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 4, 2016 at 9:42 pm

          It was all,about the abolishing of idol worship and belief in one God. Muhammad taught there was one God and He won some followers. As he gained more followers the idol worshippers didn’t like people converting to the new religion.

          In other words they didn’t respect freedom of belief and started oppressing and using force to stop freedom of belief.

          “The weakest of Muammad’s followers, especially slaves, who had no clan to retaliate against any who might do them harm, were molested by the more zealous enemies of Islam, and occasionally tormented painfully;”

          (Venture if Islam Vol 1)

          ‘As his following grew, however, the opposition and abuse by the remaining Quraysh hardened; conditions became so bad for some that Muhammad arranged for a number of them to take refuge with the ruler of Axum in perhaps about 615.’

          (Oxford history of Islam)

        • Angemon says

          Feb 5, 2016 at 8:51 am

          worldcitizen1919 posted:

          “It was all,about the abolishing of idol worship and belief in one God. Muhammad taught there was one God and He won some followers. As he gained more followers the idol worshippers didn’t like people converting to the new religion.

          In other words they didn’t respect freedom of belief and started oppressing and using force to stop freedom of belief.”

          Oh, please, that’s the same claptrap muslims use to explain every islamic invasion ever. The invasion of the Iberian Peninsula in 711? Musims went there peacefully to spread their religion and were attacked by the local rulers who were jealous of their conversion rates. Greece? Peaceful muslims were attacked by jealous rulers. India? North Africa? Jerusalem? Byzantium? Rinse and repeat.

          It was the other way around: Meccans didn’t care about whatever muhammad was preaching until he started insulting their gods. I gave you quran 6:108:

          And do not insult those they invoke other than Allah, lest they insult Allah in enmity without knowledge.

          Does it look like it were the Meccans who started the hostilities? Does it read “do not insult back the Meccans who insult you and alah”? No, it reads “do not insult their gods because they’ll insult allah in return”. I could give you more from the ahadith and sira, like that time when muhammad told an Arab boasting of his lineage to go bite his father’s penis, but you refuse to accept them. Which begs the question: where do you get the idea that the Meccans were jealous of muhammad’s success as a preacher (150 converts in 13 years? Lame…) and attacked muhammad for it? What sources do you have to back your assertions? Surely you’re not just going “well, he was a messenger of God, and messengers of God don’t insult others, therefore he didn’t insult others”.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 5, 2016 at 9:45 am

          Hang on a minute.

          Muhammad won many followers and as He won more and more people over to His Cause that’s what caused the problems that many converted and idols were a great source of income for the Meccans. Many were poor but some were respected people.

          It all came down to the Meccans against others being converted. . The Meccans who didn’t want to covert didn’t convert but they wanted to stop anymore people from converting.

          Muhammad was protected because of His links to tribal leaders with influence but the poorer Muslims and slaves were mistreated very badly and they ended up having to flee.

          Muhammad was told not to deliberately provoke or insult them or their beliefs but He was allowed to say anything God had commanded Him.

          ‘As his following grew, however, the opposition and abuse by the remaining Quraysh hardened; conditions became so bad for some that Muhammad arranged for a number of them to take refuge with the ruler of Axum in perhaps about 615. ‘(Oxford a History of Islam)

        • Angemon says

          Feb 5, 2016 at 10:51 am

          worldcitizen1919 posted:

          “Hang on a minute.

          Muhammad won many followers and as He won more and more people over to His Cause that’s what caused the problems that many converted and idols were a great source of income for the Meccans. Many were poor but some were respected people.”

          No, he didn’t. The islamic sources place the number of converts to islam in Mecca at around 150 people in 13 years. Do you have any better source than the islamic accounts? It wasn’t until he went to Yathrib and started raiding Meccan caravans that people started to flock to his side. And many tried to leave islam after muhammad died, but Abu Bakr waged war against them until they returned to islam.

          “It all came down to the Meccans against others being converted. . The Meccans who didn’t want to covert didn’t convert but they wanted to stop anymore people from converting.”

          Again, the Meccans didn’t give a rat’s ass about what muhammad preached. Few people took him seriously to begin with. The Meccans did start to have issues with him after he started insulting them, their gods, their ancestors and their lineage. Muhammad opened the hostilities, not the Meccans. That they didn’t kill him outright is very telling of their character.

          “Muhammad was protected because of His links to tribal leaders with influence but the poorer Muslims and slaves were mistreated very badly and they ended up having to flee.”

          Remember: muhammad was the one who opened the hostilities with the Meccans by insulting them, their gods and their ancestors and lineage. Maybe if he hadn’t been suck a dick the poorer muslims and slaves wouldn’t have faced this alleged “persecution”.

          “Muhammad was told not to deliberately provoke or insult them or their beliefs but He was allowed to say anything God had commanded Him. ”

          He received a “revelation” telling him and his followers not to insult others because they would, in turn, insult allah. That ties up nicely with the islamic accounts of how the Meccans let him preach in peace until he started insulting them.

          “‘As his following grew, however, the opposition and abuse by the remaining Quraysh hardened; conditions became so bad for some that Muhammad arranged for a number of them to take refuge with the ruler of Axum in perhaps about 615. ‘(Oxford a History of Islam)”

          The Oxford History of Islam was edited by John Esposito, a Saudi-funded islamoapologist. If you need to resort to a Saudi funded islamoapologist to make your point rather than the earliest islamic sources available then you have a problem – you’re trying to assert islamic history while ignoring islamic sources. Well, two problems – earlier on you dismissed the ahadith out of hand because they were not the quran. What makes you certain that John Esposito’s book is more accurate than the islamic sources, which attest that the Meccans let muhammad preach in peace until he started insulting them, their gods, ancestors and lineage, and fit nicely with the quranic passage I quoted above that implies that the Meccans simply reacted to provocations?

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 5, 2016 at 12:08 pm

          Only that He was from God that’s all.

          A Prophet doesn’t commit evil,or harass and intimidate. If there was wrong it was on the Meccans because Muhammad was guided by God.

          That’s the only real difference between you and I. You’re saying he did wrong things and I’m saying a Prophet of God cannot do wrong and is infallible in judgement so if there was a wrong it was on the Meccan side not the Prophet’s side.

          It doesn’t matter which version of history is accepted Muhammad was infallible that’s my contention and belief.

          The fundamental issue here is IS Muahmmad a Prophet of God or not???

          It’s not a matter of you or me being right or wrong but a question of Who was Muhammad an ordinary man or Divinely guided by God. I choose one which means all Hadiths or anything which demeans Him is false and you choose the other argument which says He was just a man and committed crimes, robbed etc.

          You are knowledgeable and I like your attitude but if Muhammad was from God thrn all the arguments here fall flat. Everything here on this website hinges on Muhammad not being a Prophet.

        • rev g says

          Feb 5, 2016 at 12:15 pm

          Amazing…..Moe couldn’t have committed all the evil things people claim he did, because he is a prophet of God? Says who? What evidence?
          Hmmm, seems only the gullible fall for that line of crap.
          Moe was a servant of Satan. In that case, all his actions fall right into place.

        • Angemon says

          Feb 5, 2016 at 12:33 pm

          worldcitizen1919 posted:

          “A Prophet doesn’t commit evil,or harass and intimidate. If there was wrong it was on the Meccans because Muhammad was guided by God.”

          That’s circular logic. Islamic texts are crystal clear. Muhammad preached islam in Mecca. Meccans didn’t care.Muhammad insulted the meccans. The meccans replied in kind. Cause. Effect. And the quran supports that timeline.

          “That’s the only real difference between you and I.”

          Yeah, the only one – not counting for me not believing in God and therefore not believing in prophets as well. Plus not believing that there was actually an historical muhammad.

          “You’re saying he did wrong things and I’m saying a Prophet of God cannot do wrong and is infallible in judgement so if there was a wrong it was on the Meccan side not the Prophet’s side.”

          Presuppositional circular logic.

          “It doesn’t matter which version of history is accepted Muhammad was infallible that’s my contention and belief.”

          Hold that thought.

          “The fundamental issue here is IS Muahmmad a Prophet of God or not???

          It’s not a matter of you or me being right or wrong but a question of Who was Muhammad an ordinary man or Divinely guided by God. I choose one which means all Hadiths or anything which demeans Him is false and you choose the other argument which says He was just a man and committed crimes, robbed etc.”

          But, according to you, “It doesn’t matter which version of history is accepted”.

          “You are knowledgeable and I like your attitude but if Muhammad was from God thrn all the arguments here fall flat.”

          Why? Are you telling me that if he’s not a prophet then it was wrong of him to insult
          the Meccans but if he’s a prophet then insulting the Meccans was the right thing to do?

          “Everything here on this website hinges on Muhammad not being a Prophet.”

          Much to the contrary. This website is about exposing the role of islamic theology in jihad terrorism – muslims commit terror attacks in the name of islam because of what their self-proclaimed prophet preached.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 5, 2016 at 12:45 pm

          What I’m saying is if Muhammad acted in His capacity as infallible Prophet of God then all His actions are sanctioned by God and the Quran states He is from God.

          What if he committed the same action and wasn’t a Prophet.

          How am I to know with varying reports some saying the Meccans started it and you and your sources saying Muhammad started it?

          The ONLY thing that tells me Muhammad is beyond reproach and the Meccans were in the wrong is the Fod and Prophet element.

          Like Abbott Costello would say ‘back to first base’.

          The issue is God. If God snaps His fingers and says ‘let there be light’ thrn light will appear but if I snap my fingers and say it nothing will happen.

          You don’t believe in God? So the human body put itself together and switched itself on and works automatically 24/7. So no scientist, no superior intelligence just us??

          Can we create a peanut? Or something that has never seen existence? We can only multiply and combine, reproduce wtcbut we cannot create. Anyway that’s not important to you anyway.

          I was an avowed aetheist once also.

        • Rev g says

          Feb 5, 2016 at 4:31 pm

          Your commitment to avoiding the obvious and obfuscation truth is unwavering.
          Belief in God does not imply one must believe the words and actions of self proclaimed prophets.
          The tests for analyzing prophets have been given more than once in this thread. In short, many unscrupulous people will claim to be prophets. Look at their lives, look at the truth of their words, etc… to see if they are truly of God. You do not change what is considered Godly because of the actions of false prophets, you weed out false prophets knowing what the Godly would do. Bahaullah and Muhammad both fail the test. They are not men of God.
          All of your convoluted rationalizing is unnecessary now, huh?

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 5, 2016 at 10:01 pm

          All the Prophets of God have called mankind to worship God. All of them when they called men were persecuted, their followers killed and tortured and They suffered tremendously for our benefit.

          There was nothing in it for Them except to call men to God. Christ was crucified, Muhammad was oppressed, the Bab was executed and over 20,000 of His followers killed, Baha’u’llah was exiled for 40 years, Christ was crucified.

          Yet eh Jews will say Christ is false and the Christians will say Muhammad is false and the Muslims say Baha’u’llah is false. Don’t you see a pattern here where once the orthodoxy become entrenched with power they refuse th next Meswnger from God and are willing to crucify, exile, oppress and execute those who they perceive as a possible threat to their power.

          Why did Herod ask the Magians to tell him when they found Jesus so he could pay homeage?? More like slaughter Him. But the Zoroastrian religion it was that prevented th very massacre and birth of Christianity. So many religions are from God not just one.

        • Rev g says

          Feb 5, 2016 at 10:49 pm

          Muhammad slayed thousands, and collected large amounts of wealth in booty.
          Your so-called prophets were self-serving as well.
          So how much did Christ take in for His own wealth, how many wives, how many did He kill?
          No one needs to construct elaborate excuses for the life of Christ.
          You have everything backwards. Truth is self-evident, it doesn’t need ruses to make it appear so.

        • Rev g says

          Feb 5, 2016 at 11:03 pm

          You make statements about religion without having done any research. Your answers are cliff’s notes versions.
          The Jews, Christians, even the satanic Muslims are represented in the Judeo-Christian scriptures. That does not make Islam Godly.
          All religions cannot be valid. To make such a claim is idiocy. They run the gamut in tenets, gods, etc. I can respect that others believe their concept may be valid instead of mine, but anyone attempting to homogenized all religions into one should be considered a charlatan to all faiths. The ultimate con.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 6, 2016 at 12:27 am

          I’m only saying the Manidestations of God we’re all good and all pure and error free not Their followers.

          Buddha, Christ, Muhammad, Krishna, Zozoraster, Baha’u’llah were all Manifestations of God and were perfect men. Their followers were not perfect.

          Ok. Christians accept Moses and Abraham although they were previous dispensations not Chrisstianity. That is a mingling. Why accept both Old and New Tetaments?

          Baha’is understand the different religions in the same way as different chapters in a book. The latest chapter God has written is Baha’u’llah and th Baha’i Revelation. That does not nullify any previous revelation just like Univesity does not mean kindergarten was useless and of no importance but it was a stage.

          We are now at the stage of world unity where communications & technology have brought us together so it is a much different paradigm from Christ or Buddha or Muhammad.

          It’s called progressive revelation.

        • Dennis says

          Feb 6, 2016 at 12:53 am

          These comments are getting very boring. We have both world citizen and Fundie Christians quoting and defending their religious beliefs. I thought that the main purpose of Jihad Watch was to center on our common problem which s radical Islam. I am bored by these religious comments. I don’t believe in either side and I am not going to waste my time debating such silly issues. Whether Mohammad is “god’s” messenger or not because a book says so, or whether Jesus brought salvation or not because a book says so is not important to me. How do you live your life IS important and how do we act to confront radical Islam is very important.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 6, 2016 at 1:29 am

          I agree radical Islam is a huge problem.

          I believe it can be slowed down a lot by banning Mullas who promote hate speech and destroying all violent Hadiths and making them illegal to preach, sell or own.

          Also the oneness and equality of all people, races, nations and religions should be taught in all schools especially Muslim schools but many cultures have problems with supremacy beliefs.

          I also think priesthood should be banned as we can all find out truth for ourselves.

          So I am against radical Islam but once you start bringing in Muhammad and the Quran then one is attacking the beliefs of Baha’is not just Muslims and we have the right to defend our beliefs if they are attacked.

          But if it’s kept just to things like Hadiths and Mullas we fully support that these are the major causes of radical Islam as well as unemployment and poverty which makes youth choose terrorism just for a wage.

        • Rev g says

          Feb 6, 2016 at 7:57 am

          A great many jihadis are neither unemployed nor poor.
          They merely believe in their religion as written, not as reinterpreted by a bunch of bahai hypocrites.
          Just one more bullshit lie you attempt to propagate.

        • Avenger says

          Feb 6, 2016 at 3:36 pm

          1919 knows full well that poverty and unemployment isn’t the cause of Muslim murder and terror, its only the filth in his Koran. He just wants more useless (to him) responses and he’s getting them, what a loser.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 6, 2016 at 10:26 pm

          I never said it was the cause just part of the problem. The main problem as I understand it is violent Hadiths and hate preachers.

        • Rev g says

          Feb 6, 2016 at 11:14 pm

          Hate preachers like the false prophet muhammad, and his unholy quran.

        • Rev g says

          Feb 6, 2016 at 8:07 am

          Interesting. An atheist opposed to book learning.

        • Rev g says

          Feb 6, 2016 at 8:19 am

          The Christian scripture, and even islam, both negate the possibility of bahaullah being what he claims. All the convolution in the world cannot change that.

        • Angemon says

          Feb 5, 2016 at 6:19 pm

          worldcitizen1919 posted

          “What I’m saying is if Muhammad acted in His capacity as infallible Prophet of God then all His actions are sanctioned by God and the Quran states He is from God.”

          When a self-proclaimed prophet does it is not illegal? Nixon would have loved that…

          “What if he committed the same action and wasn’t a Prophet.”

          A criminal is a criminal, self-proclaimed prophet or not.

          “How am I to know with varying reports some saying the Meccans started it and you and your sources saying Muhammad started it?”

          My sources are islamic sources going back to as earlier as possible (meaning decades after the death of muhammad) and the quran. What are yours?

          “The ONLY thing that tells me Muhammad is beyond reproach and the Meccans were in the wrong is the Fod and Prophet element.”

          No, the quran – which is supposed to be the timeless word of allah – makes a case for muhammad starting it.

          “Like Abbott Costello would say ‘back to first base’.”

          You mean Abbot and Costello? One is Abbot, the other is Costello.

          “The issue is God. If God snaps His fingers and says ‘let there be light’ thrn light will appear but if I snap my fingers and say it nothing will happen.”

          I think someone somewhere (most likely a muslim) would consider that a blasphemy – why would allah have to snap his fingers and say “let there be light” rather than simply willing light into existence?

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 5, 2016 at 10:06 pm

          You say Muhammad was a self proclaimed prophet I say He was chosen by God and that is where the difference between you and me lies..

          If He was chosen by God Himself then that’s the end of the story and we have to look for other reasons for why Islam has become violent or at least the terrorists. Maybe it is hate preachers and Hadiths and misinterpretations but it’s not God.

          God chose Jesus. Christians don’t dispute anything He did because He was CHOSEN. Muhammad I am saying in my humble opinion was chosen by God not self appointed.

        • Rev g says

          Feb 5, 2016 at 10:38 pm

          Christ was prophesied, wise men sought Him as an infant, He fulfilled numerous prophesies, and lived a Godly life, free from sin. No need for convoluted excuses to redeem Him
          Muhammad and Bahaullah, no such luck.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 5, 2016 at 11:42 pm

          At least we agree on Jesus so we can talk about Him.

        • Rev g says

          Feb 6, 2016 at 8:29 am

          We don’t agree. Bahaullah, in falsely claiming incarnation as Christ, is a vile, despicable charlatan.

        • Angemon says

          Feb 6, 2016 at 1:38 pm

          worldcitizen1919 posted:

          “If He was chosen by God Himself then that’s the end of the story and we have to look for other reasons for why Islam has become violent or at least the terrorists. Maybe it is hate preachers and Hadiths and misinterpretations but it’s not God.”

          Islam is violent because of its tenets, many of which which can be found in the quran. Islam is violent because muslims are taught to emulate a warlord.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 6, 2016 at 9:17 pm

          I don’t disagree with you that Islam has committed a lot of violence over the centuries. Unfortunately, the Quran which specified defensive warfare only was not adhered to and the religion completely changed.

        • Angemon says

          Feb 7, 2016 at 5:18 pm

          worldcitizen1919 posted:

          “the Quran which specified defensive warfare only ”

          Nope. See suran 9 – it’s clear that muslims should fight the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) to enrich themselves. It even justify doing so by claiming that Jews and Christians are polytheists.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 7, 2016 at 7:28 pm

          I’ve done a ton of research in this and I’m happy that the Quran is only speaking of defensive warfare. It’s mainly when the Quran is ‘enhanced’ with Hadiths that this seems not to be the case.

        • Rev g says

          Feb 7, 2016 at 7:46 pm

          Either your research or your thinking are flawed, or both.
          So much of what you claim is at odds with the scriptures relevant to the discussion. Your beliefs sure have a lot of asterisks or hidden clauses not present in the original writs.
          Not very reputable.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 7, 2016 at 7:54 pm

          Go will judge between us.

        • Rev g says

          Feb 7, 2016 at 8:28 pm

          My God will judge me…..what will it be for you. GOD, Satan (the islamic god), thousands of gods, or no god at all, since you believe all are true?

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 8, 2016 at 1:13 am

          The station which he who hath truly recognized this Revelation will attain is the same as the one ordained for such prophets of the house of Israel as are not regarded as Manifestations ‘endowed with constancy.’” (Baha’i Writings)

        • Rev g says

          Feb 8, 2016 at 2:41 am

          You worship false prophets.

        • Angemon says

          Feb 8, 2016 at 8:16 am

          worldcitizen1919 posted:

          “I’ve done a ton of research in this and I’m happy that the Quran is only speaking of defensive warfare. It’s mainly when the Quran is ‘enhanced’ with Hadiths that this seems not to be the case.”

          It isn’t. Look at 9:28-31

          9:28
          O you who have believed, indeed the polytheists are unclean, so let them not approach al-Masjid al-Haram after this, their [final] year. And if you fear privation, Allah will enrich you from His bounty if He wills. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Wise.
          9:29
          Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture – [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.
          9:30
          The Jews say, “Ezra is the son of Allah “; and the Christians say, “The Messiah is the son of Allah .” That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allah destroy them; how are they deluded?
          9:31
          They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah , and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him.

          9:28 says to not let non-muslims in the mosque al-haram (the great mosque, in Mecca). Pilgrimage of polytheists was an important source of income to the Meccans, who saw their livelihood threatened. Muhammad then assured them that allah would enrich the Meccan muslims. How would allah enrich the Meccans? 9:29 explains it: fight the Jews and Christians until they pay the jizyah. 9:30 and 9:31 gives a reason to attack them by claiming they’re polytheists, even lying about Jews claiming Ezra was the son of God.

      • gravenimage says

        Jan 30, 2016 at 10:21 pm

        worldcitizen1919 wrote:

        The Baha’i Faith and Baha’is uphold and defend the truth of Muhammad and the Quran. (Not Hadiths)

        The west was always handed down false prejudiced, biased and often spiteful and hateful infirmation (sic) about Muhammad and Islam. Some by Christian priests and others by biased writers.
        ………………………..

        Oh, no! How dare Christians be so “biased” and “hateful” as to condemn caravan-raiding, pedophilia, enslavement, and mass-murder–when performed by Muhammed in the name of Islam. How “prejudiced”! sarc/off

        More:

        ISIS is not Islam, neither is terrorism. Bloodshed has just as much been spilled by other Faiths if we be fair. To single out an entire Faith for the crimes of a few is nothing but trial by media. 1.6 billion Muslims are not terrorists or evil. They are GOOD people and it’s because of the Quran.
        ………………………..

        They are only “good” when they follow the diktats of the Qur’an, according to worldcitizen1919–which does indeed lead to terrorism and bloodshed. Baha’i should know this, because they have long been on the receiving end of Muslim oppression and violence.

        More:

        Baha’u’llah the Promised return of Christ in the glory of the Fatheer has this to say of Muhammad and He speaks to truth and all else is slander and false inuendo.

        “Blessing and peace be upon Him [Muhammad] through Whose advent Bathá [Mecca] is wreathed in smiles, and the sweet savours of Whose raiment have shed fragrance upon all mankind…
        ………………………..

        Unfortunately, the fragrance of those “sweet savours” are blood, fire, and death–sorry, I and every other decent person prefer sweeter scents…

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 30, 2016 at 10:57 pm

          Thanks gravenimage. I enjoy reading your posts.

          I’m only saying that the west has always received misinformation about Muhammad throughout the centuries and that terrorism is not representative of Islam.

          There are 1.6! Billion good people who are good because they believe in the Quran.

          Baha’is accept the Quran and Muhammad and none of us are involved in those evil acts. So it is the few who are giving the majority a bad name undeservedly.

          Are 1.6 billion Muslims against the west. If they were a long time ago the west would have been speaking Arabic. Muskims are people just like you and I that’s all I’m saying.

          Evil comes from political motives using religion as an excuse like the Umayyads.

          Baha’is are persecuted but not by Muhammad or the Quran but by evil people misusing their religion for political gain. We can clearly distinguish what the cause is and we should know as we have been persecuted in Iran for over 170 years.

          You don’t think the Baha’is have a clue? I think that’s hasty. Baha’is are fairly intelligent and know the difference between Islam and liars and imposters using Islam.

          Anyway have a nice day.

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 5:26 pm

          “worldcitizen1919” wrote:

          I’m only saying that the west has always received misinformation about Muhammad throughout the centuries
          ……………………………….

          The information we have on Muhammed comes from the texts of Islam itself. This is the vicious figure Muslims accept as the “perfect man”. And no, even leaving the Hadith aside presents a *horrifying* portrait of the “Prophet”.

          More:

          and that terrorism is not representative of Islam.
          ……………………………….

          Jihad terror is a key part of Islam, and right now good Muslims are butchering both us and each other in the name of their creed.

          More:

          There are 1.6! Billion good people who are good because they believe in the Quran.
          ……………………………….

          And 27,712 Jihad terror attacks just since 9/11 show this to be the case. *Ugh>

          More:

          Baha’is accept the Quran and Muhammad and none of us are involved in those evil acts.
          ……………………………….

          The best one can say about the Baha’i is that they are not as bad as the Shia Islam they derive from. They still feel the need to defend and whitewash the horrors of Islam, its “Prophet”, and its “holy book”, though. In this way they continue to enable the violence of Islam.

          Not that any of this appeasement has prevented them from being victimized by the same violent Islam they so desperately defend, though.

          More:

          Are 1.6 billion Muslims against the west. If they were a long time ago the west would have been speaking Arabic. Muskims (sic) are people just like you and I that’s all I’m saying.
          ……………………………….

          “worldcitizen1919″ hopes we know nothing about the history of Islam and its attacks on the West. Islam attacked Europe *for centuries” and took over large swaths of it–Spain, Portugal, southern France, southern Italy, Sicily, Greece, Turkey, and the Balkans. Muslim piracy made the Mediterranean unsafe for navigation, and Muslim pirates raided for slaves and booty as far as the coast of Ireland.

          It was only when the civilized West became more technologically advanced that they were able to decisively beat back the Islamic threat.

          And now that the West is showing weakness and its ignorance of the Islamic threat, Muslims are again vowing to conquer us.

          Does “worldcitizen1919” hope that we are ignoring the attacks on Paris and beheadings in London and the mass molestation and rape of European women?

          More:

          Evil comes from political motives using religion as an excuse like the Umayyads.
          ……………………………….

          The idea that the only problem with Islam is the Umayyads is absurd. This apologist for evil hopes that we are not aware of Muslims in Iran hanging gay people from cranes, threatening to “wipe Israel off the map”, and stoning women to death. *Ugh*.

          More:

          Baha’is are persecuted but not by Muhammad or the Quran…
          ……………………………….

          No–they are not being persecuted by a book or by a long dead psychopath–they are just being persecuted by pious Muslims *in the name* of Muhammed and the Qur’an.

          More:

          You don’t think the Baha’is have a clue? I think that’s hasty…
          ……………………………….

          Baha’i are like most other dhimmis, who believe they have to kow tow to their oppressors in order to (possibly) be allowed to survive.

          That the victims of Islam are trying to impose dhimmitude *on the rest of us* for their Muslim overlords is utterly sickening.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 7:08 pm

          Thank you for the compliment.

          Firstly we Baha’is don’t support the violence committed by terrorists whether now or over the centuries but we separate what was taught from what was obeyed.

          The Quran which taught defensive warfare only as did Muhammad are not to blame for offensive Islam.

          Baha’is believe that the Quran and Muhammad were from God and those who have committed evil are not doing it on instruction of God but of man. The Hadiths are not from God and they say all sorts of terrible things and Muslims use them to justify their violence. They were made up by people and are not the Words of God but man.

          Blame Muslims but trying to drag God into it and blaming God for the violence of man is totally unjust.

          God is a God of love not violence. People here try to associate God with war crimes.

          God revealed both the Quran and the Bible and is not to blame for mans mistakes and evil.

        • gravenimage says

          Feb 2, 2016 at 6:32 pm

          More crap from “worldcitizen1919”:

          Blame Muslims but trying to drag God into it and blaming God for the violence of man is totally unjust.
          …………………………..

          The idea that blaming Jihad on the vicious tenets of the Qur’an and the baleful “Prophet”–whom Jihadists themselves cite as inspiring violent Jihad–as “blaming God” is utterly ludicrous.

          You are the only one here that believes that the murder manual Qur’an and the barbaric war lord Muhammed represent God.

      • Wellington says

        Jan 30, 2016 at 11:17 pm

        “…..the truth of Muhammad and the Quran.”

        You already lost me, worldcitizen1919. Big time. Forever like.

        Now get this: Mohammed was evil and the Quran is the most desultory, despicable, repetitive and stupid religious work of all time. I know. I’ve read each and every last damn one of its 114 chapters. It’s nonsense combined with hate and yet masquerading as something sapient and good. I always proceed from this point about Mo and the silliest, yet sadly most malevolently influential, religious work ever. To the extent that you don’t, you are wrong.

        Got that? No shades of gray here. Yep, to the extent that you don’t get what I’m saying here you are in grievous error. Neither Mo nor the Koran deserves any approval. By now, one knows this or should know it. You don’t.

        But go ahead and prove me wrong, with specifics of course. And here are several specifics for you: 1) Mo effing a nine-year old; 2) Mo never getting a single sexual desire denied him by Allah, including for his own daughter-in-law, Zaynab; 3) the completely ludicrous concept of abrogation; 4) the difficulty in finding a single page of the Koran that doesn’t ooze hatred towards the unbeliever (e.g., Sura 60:4); 5) the fact that Islam, alone among all major faiths, calls upon its believers to wage war upon all mankind “until all religion is with Allah” {Sura 8:39}; 6) the fact that true freedom of speech and freedom of religion, as enshrined in the First Amendment to the American Constitution, are completely at odds with Islam; 7) the fact that in all plus-fifty majority Muslim nations, non-Muslims are not accorded equal rights under the law; 8) the fact that people like you are like pure Marxists who maintain that Marx and Marxism are just peachy king only that in each and every instance when tried it has betrayed the true goodness and truth inherent in the original philosophy.

        And these are just for starters. Let me know if you want more.

        • Kepha says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 3:50 pm

          Wellington, WorldCitizen is a Bahai. The Bahai are a somewhat aberrant Islamic sect that grew out of Ithna’ashariyya Shi’ite Islam.

        • Wellington says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 6:44 pm

          I know he’s a Bahai, Kepha. So, he’s another confused human being. God, there are so many.

      • Rev g says

        Jan 31, 2016 at 4:02 am

        Why not the hadiths? Again you are in the position of claiming all religions are equal and the same, yet you want to dictate which parts of those religions are acceptable.
        Sure sounds like some religions are “more equal” than others, to paraphrase.
        Again, the word for that is hypocrisy. Trying to be a soft sell version of islam sure Pisces them muzzies off, eh?
        You should go surrender your neck to one, in recognition of their religious call to slay you, since you won’t convert. Maybe they will offer you a choice.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 4:16 am

          The Quran does not support Hadiths although they are used extensively

          39:23 God has sent down the best hadith, a book that is consistent, relating/contrasting/repeating.

          6:115 The word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice; there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.

          6:114 “Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this book sufficiently detailed?”

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 4:42 am

          You keep telling other religions how they need to believe.
          I have it from a reputable source that Beulah was a charlatan. You really Ned to renounce the false prophet.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 6:04 am

          Only quoting what their own Holy Books say that’s all.

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 12:58 pm

          No, you are not. If you were, you would provide citations and context. You are taking liberties with interpretations and leaving out mountains of text that doesn’t support your claims.
          You are a liar and a hypocrite.

        • gravenimage says

          Feb 2, 2016 at 6:39 pm

          “worldcitizen1919” wrote, among reams of other crap:

          39:23 God has sent down the best hadith, a book that is consistent, relating/contrasting/repeating.
          ……………………

          This Sura, of course, does not use the word hadith at all:

          Qur’an 39:23:

          “Allah has sent down the best statement: a consistent Book wherein is reiteration. The skins shiver therefrom of those who fear their Lord; then their skins and their hearts relax at the remembrance of Allah . That is the guidance of Allah by which He guides whom He wills. And one whom Allah leaves astray – for him there is no guide.”

          In other words, this Muslim apologist is deliberately misquoting the Qur’an in order to show how perfect and holy it is. Good grief.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 2, 2016 at 8:43 pm

          None of us are perfect. It’s just we believe that the Quran was revealed by God and Muhammad along with Christ Buddha, Baha’u’llah were all sent from the same God.

          We don’t just say this blindly. There are many Baha’i books proving that Muhammad and other Prophets were true and that they are not responsible for mans evils.

        • Rev g says

          Feb 2, 2016 at 8:46 pm

          PROVING?!?!? Now I know you are delusional.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 2, 2016 at 11:48 pm

          Hi Rev,

          Yes I meant proving to me.

        • Rev g says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 12:42 am

          Amazing how you make a statement, and when it is questioned, you fashion a meaning that is not in keeping with the common interpretation of the words. Such deceptions are sinful. They are also your bread and butter, and in keeping with the claims of your faith’s leadership.
          Such a faith cannot be Godly.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 1:45 am

          I’m only saying that you can only find truth on your own. Nobody can find it for you, only point in the direction.

        • Rev g says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 7:42 am

          Make a false assertion, back-pedal under challenge, spin the reasoning . Repeat
          Hell of a way to promote your “religion”.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 9:12 am

          I don’t know about that. I think I’ve been consistent about believing in Jesus Christ.

          .

        • Rev g says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 9:46 am

          You have been consistent in reinventing (i.e. denigrating) the core beliefs of most religions extant today.
          Hardly something to be proud of. Satan would pat you on the back.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 4:06 pm

          It’s not me but God Who sends new Prophets and Messengers for each time and age. At one time He sent Jesus at another Muhammad and now Baha’u’llah to unite us all but we are not forward thinking enough to realise that this is in our best interests and always oppose, ridicule and condemn God whenever He sends a new Prophet.

          Christ promised to return and He has yet now that He’s come Christians oppose Him. Why? Because if they sincerely loved and believe in the real Jesus they would also accept Baha’u’llah too but they belive in the Jesus which their own imaginations have formed and so denounce Him when He returns.

          Yesterday’s sun and today’s sun is the same son yet there are those who will deny it.

        • Rev g says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 4:17 pm

          Christ, who is one with the Father, can speak for God, you cannot.
          To that end imposters like muhammad and baha Ullah were expected, and are not prophets. They and those who follow them are being led astray , away from God, not to him
          Christ would never incarnate into the body of another man, especially in the body of a sinful, lying, conniving, polygamist.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 6:10 pm

          Baha’u’llah is the Father Christians have prayed to for centuries and now He’s come.

          ” Lo! The Father is come, and that which ye were promised in the Kingdom is fulfilled!
          (Baha’u’llah – Tablet to the Christians)

        • Rev g says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 7:08 pm

          No he is not. He and the other leaders may have bahai-jacked bits and pieces of many religions, but they can’t do it without ignoring a lot of what is written. Only the most gullible would believe the systems over the true Word as expressed long before.
          There is no way that God would manifest Himself in a sinful polygamist.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 7:33 pm

          Caiphas the most learned of his age denied Christ but with hindsight we know different. We don’t have hindsight here so I wouldn’t write Baha’u’llah off so hastily.

        • Rev g says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 7:39 pm

          Irrelevant. Any simpleton can read the holy books of the various religions Beulah bahai-jacked and see that he is making it up as he goes. Just like mohammad.
          You are the one claiming to be learned here, that disqualifies you as trustworty, by your own statement!

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 8:09 pm

          All true knowledge comes from God. I have no knowledge of my own only what God teaches.

        • Rev g says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 8:26 pm

          Not everyone with a story to sell is being honest, especially those claiming a divine purpose.
          When their story doesn’t match up with prophecy, they aren’t the real deal.
          In other words, when you should expect a dark haired man from the clouds on a tuesday, representing only himself, the huckster redhead claiming multiple personalities on Friday in the subway is playing you for a fool.

        • Smilin' Jack says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 3:35 pm

          You believe in Jesus Christ? So does Satan. Big deal. Do you believe that He was not just another prophet, but the Savior, God in the flesh? Who dies on the Cross to pay the penalty for the sin of all mankind? Do you?

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 6:01 pm

          Of course I believe in Jesus Christ as saviour and that He came in the flesh and was born of a virgin.

          But I also accept He returned as promised in the Bible with a new name Baha’u’llah and brought the Bahai Revelation..

        • Rev g says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 7:21 pm

          Jesus was quite specific about His return. Beulah doesn’t meet any of the specifics. Oops.
          That makes him a liar, a charlatan, a false prophet, etc…..

        • Champ says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 1:52 am

          “worldcitizen” wrote:

          I’m only saying that you can only find truth on your own. Nobody can find it for you, only point in the direction.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “worldcitizen” wouldn’t know the *truth* if it bit in his rear-end, since Baha’is are moral relativist’s, and they don’t believe in right or wrong. So it’s ALL ‘the truth’ in their twisted worldview. What a confusing way to live. NO THANK YOU.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 3:05 am

          Someone who knows about the Baha’i Faith and read it’s literature would never say that as it’s simply untrue.

        • Smilin' Jack says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 3:28 pm

          That’s why it’s Bai-hai — they don’t know whether they are going or coming…

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 6:20 pm

          Do you know anything about the Baha’i Faith at all?

        • Champ says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 4:29 pm

          worldcitizen1919 wrote:

          I don’t know about that. I think I’ve been consistent about believing in Jesus Christ.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          So, what …

          The Devil “believes” in Jesus Christ, as well.

        • Rev g says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 5:05 pm

          The devil knows scripture, and knows Christ would not become incarnate in some sinful polygamist. Of course, if he could convince you it was true, I am sure he would.

        • gravenimage says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 4:50 pm

          “worldcitizen1919” wrote:

          It’s not me but God Who sends new Prophets and Messengers for each time and age. At one time He sent Jesus at another Muhammad and now Baha’u’llah to unite us all but we are not forward thinking enough to realise that this is in our best interests and always oppose, ridicule and condemn God whenever He sends a new Prophet.
          ……………………………..,

          On another thread the appalling “worldcitizen1919” condemned Jews and Christians who dared resist the warlord Muhammed’s takeover in any way as *evil*.

          To pretend we are not “not forward thinking enough to realise that this is in our best interests”–that decent people should have spent the last 1400 years following a savage dark ages barbarian–is simply grotesque.

          And notice the new tack he has taken here of late–pretending that everyone acknowledges that the vicious “Prophet” Muhammed was sent by God, and that if they reject this horrific rapist, caravan raider, slaver, pedophile, and mass murderer that they are opposing, ridiculing, and condemning God.

          This nasty poster is getting worse and worse.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 6:32 pm

          It seems you know nothing or very little about the Baha’i Faith so are just making all sorts of untrue statements.

          We love all humanity and that includes Jews and Christians.

          Why don’t you comment about the Bahsi when you’ve read something as what you’re saying is completely untrue.

          http://www.bahai.org/beliefs/universal-peace/

        • gravenimage says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 6:41 pm

          All I did was quote “worldcitizen1919’s” *own words* here. Exactly which of them does he consider to be untrue?

          As for his “love” of Christians, he has said on this very thread that any Christian who does not accept the vicious Muhammed is “denying Christ”.

          In other words, he condemns every Christian who does not accept Muhammed–which, really, is what the vicious “Prophet” of Islam said himself.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 6:57 pm

          Baha’is believe Muhammad is prophesied in the Bible. So we accept Him as a Prophet of as the Bible is the Word of God.

      • Avenger says

        Jan 31, 2016 at 2:34 pm

        So 1919, the last 1,400 years of documented, blood drenched, Islamic imperialism is nothing but a lie written by liars?
        This distorted “truth” you speak of only exists in your very evil mind.
        Shame on you.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 6:51 pm

          And the 1099 Jerusalem massacre of men, women, children and infants by Christians never happened nor did the Inquisition full of beheadings and burnings at the stake.

          Neither was a Christian country responsible for the holocaust nor did Christian country nuke two Jaoanese cities.

          This ‘holier than thou’ attitude is on both sides and is so selfish. And it is the sickness of today.

          You go and read about Christianity’s bloodstained history and it’s nothing to be proud of.

        • Mike Proulx says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 7:00 pm

          3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

          4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

          5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

          6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

          7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

          8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

          9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.

          10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

          11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

          12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
          Read the whole Bible, Jesus warned us about everything. and its true that many so call Christian killed the true believers in Christ as you say. Many are making the same error in the name of Islam.
          The Lord said come out of her my people be not partakers of her sins, this goes for some organized so called Christian religions who spread lies also.
          The only one we can trust is the Lord himself man will surely fail you. Depart from these wicked ones and cling unto the the Truth who is Jesus. A person in the Godhead, Holy Holy Holy is the Lamb of God. Amen

        • Avenger says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 11:35 pm

          1919 – I don’t have a college degree in history but I do know that all the genocides committed in history were by cultures and religions that were not Christian.
          1) Armenian and Greek genocide – Muslim Turks
          2) Pre WW II Chinese genocide – Japanese Shinto
          3) Pre WW II Ukraine genocide – Soviet Union, Stalin atheist
          4) Holocaust – Hitlers Third Reich – NOT Christian sanctioned, it was however directed by Muslims who wanted Jews exterminated more than did Hitler.
          5) Rwanda – Hutus exterminating Tutsis – Tribal conflict

          Jews were slaughtered in Jerusalem by Crusaders because they aided the Muslim defenders.

          If the Nazis, Japanese or Soviets developed the Nuclear bomb first, they WOULD NOT have hesitated for a second on using it against their Christian and Chinese adversaries.

          The 4th Crusade did sack Christian Constanople which later allowed Turks to destroy the weakened Byzantine empire. That’s one you forgot but it was Christian on Christian which you could care less about.
          When you consider Christian nations more or less controlled the most lethal of weapon technologies, they in reality, used them very sparingly.

          You of course know all of this and yet you still mislead, very sad.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 12:13 am

          Throughout history all humanity & all civilisations have committed atrocities at one time or another whatever religion they belonged to whether Christian, Muslim or other.

        • gravenimage says

          Feb 2, 2016 at 6:42 pm

          “worldcitizen1919’s” claim that the Holocaust was carried out in the name of Christianity is, of course, an utter lie. Hitler, in fact, despised Christianity as “meek and flabby”.

          In contrast, he respected was the martial creed of Islam.

        • Rev g says

          Feb 2, 2016 at 6:58 pm

          He also favored his officers and elite troops becoming atheists or turning to Nordic gods (Wodan, Thor, Loki, etc…).

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 2, 2016 at 8:56 pm

          Not in the name of Christianity. That’s not what was stated only that it happened in a Christian country.

        • gravenimage says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 4:56 pm

          More from “worldcitizen1919”

          This ‘holier than thou’ attitude is on both sides and is so selfish. And it is the sickness of today.
          ………………………..

          “worldcitizen1919” is pretending that Muslims don’t glory in their violent, conquering history.

          Muslims state that we should submit to their blood-stained creed, and we demure–and this is equally “selfish” on both sides.

          Grotesque false moral equivalence.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 6:49 pm

          I never denied that.

          I said previously these things here.

          Muhammad and His followers were opposed and oppressed because they taught one God and condemned idol worship. They suffered religious persecution for 13 years after which they fled to Medina. The Quraysh pursued thrm with intent to commit genocide and completely wipe out their entire religion.

          after Medina accepted His Faith Muhammad permitted self defense.

          After Muhammad died there were four caliphs. As time went on the leaders became corrupt and ceased to obey the defensive laws put in place by the Quran and through the Umayyads and Abbasids destroyed true Islam by going on a conquering spree using religion as an excuse to gain wealth and power.

          The Quran and Muhammad never supported that 1400 years of bloodshed.

          And it doesn’t today. Hadiths formulated only reflected the wishes of the evil Umayyads and Abbasids not the Quran or the express instructions of Muhammad.

          Baha’is support what the Quran initially taught not the bloodshed committed in the name of Islam which was not true Islam at all.

          If they obeyed just the Quran and Muhammad there would not have been all that blood shed.

          Isis seek to revive the Caliphate and use violence again for wealth and power and their model is the Umayyads.

          Baha’is do not support Hadiths or shariah law. We only accept Islam in its pure non violent form in the Quran nothing else.

          Islam which goes around killing is not true Islam.

        • Rev g says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 6:56 pm

          Bullsh*t.
          Read the Quranic quotes that have been posted here. You, and apparently bahai in general, are clueless.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 7:11 pm

          Islam initially was only about self defense until the Umayyads and Abbasids corrupted it after the Prophets death when militant Islam began about the year 666 AD which number is also the sign if the beast in the Bible.

        • Rev g says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 7:14 pm

          Islam has nothing to do with the Bible. Islam is a filthy satanic religion.

      • Jack says

        Jan 31, 2016 at 10:49 pm

        You are going to tell me that terrorism is not a part of Islam? Tell me it isn’t a part Jihad? I lived in the ME for over a decade. I visit the ME every 2 yrs. The Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia issued a Fatwa just a few months age to destroy any and all Churches within the borders of Saudi Arabia. There have been many fatwas against Copts and Coptic Church. Long before 1967 “Settlements” “Occupied Territories” Feeyadim came across the borders from Lebanon and Jordan to commit acts of terror against Israelis. I could write a book on the subject. Give me a break. Do not insult my intelligence.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 11:34 pm

          Im sorry about your experiences but issuing fatwas against Chrustianity gies against both the Quran and Muhammad. The people responsible do not truly represent anyone but their own personal hatreds

          Believe what you want but take Caiphas. He condemned Chrust to death. Was He a true Jew?? A true Jew would have welcomed and believed in Jesys.

          Just because someone calls himself a Muslim doesn’t mean he is one. A true Muslim will be known by his deeds. A person who obeys the Quran will be tolerant and peaceful and not warmongering and hateful towards other faiths.

          Professing ones belief outwardly doesn’t mean their hearts are not the blackest of the black as in his case.

          The Bahai Writings confirm that Muhammad made a number of Covenants with the Christians protecting their rights and buildings. first the Bahai Quote then what Muhammad says about the destruction of buildings namely churches.

          “In short, there are seven lengthy edicts on these subjects, copies of some of which are to this day extant in Jerusalem. This is the very truth and not merely my own assertion: The edict of the second Caliph is still in the custody of the Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem, and the matter is beyond doubt. Nevertheless, after a time, rancour and envy arose between Muslims and Christians as transgressions were committed by both sides.”

          Excerpt From: Bahá, Abdu’l. “Some Answered Questions.” Bahá’í

          This is an except from a manuscript

          The Covenant of the Prophet Muhammad with the Christians of the World [Cairo Manuscript]

          “t is not permitted to remove a bishop from his bishopric, a monk from his monastic life, a Christian from his Christianity, an ascetic from his tower, or a pilgrim from his pilgrimage. Nor is it permitted to destroy any part of their churches or their businesses or to take parts of their buildings to construct mosques or the homes of believing Muslims. Whoever does such a thing will have violated the covenant of Allah, disobeyed his Messenger, and deviated from His Divine Alliance.”

          None of their churches shall be torn down.

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 11:44 pm

          http://www.bahaiawareness.com/abdul_baha_liar.html
          Ah yes, your founder is as powerful and all-knowing as the wizard of oz.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 12:22 am

          I’ve only told you what’s true.

          No Holy Book agrees with what Muslims do now not even their own.

          “Muhammad, the Apostle of God, bewaileth, in the all-highest Paradise, their acts.” ” (Baha’u’llah)

          A day shall be witnessed by My people,” their own traditions condemn them, “whereon there will have remained of Islám naught but a name, and of the Qur’án naught but a mere appearance. The doctors of that age shall be the most evil the world hath ever seen. Mischief hath proceeded from them, and on them it will recoil.”

          Excerpt From: Effendi, Shoghi. “The Promised Day Is Come.” Bahá’í eBooks

        • Rev g says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 5:55 am

          Apparently you are unclear on the definition of truth.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 6:16 am

          Truth comes from God. I’m only telling you what He said that’s all. This is the Amighty I’m quoting. Not myself. This is Who the Christians were foretold in their Bible.

          “O ye leaders of religion! Who is the man amongst you that can rival Me in vision or insight? Where is he to be found that dareth to claim to be My equal in utterance or wisdom? No, by My Lord, the All-Merciful! All on the earth shall pass away; and this is the face of your Lord, the Almighty, the Well-Beloved.”

          Excerpt From: Bahá’u’lláh. “The Kitab-i-Aqdas.” Bahá’í eBooks

        • Rev g says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 6:37 am

          Bahaullah was not God, was not Godly, was in no way a man of God
          He was a liar, a deceiver, a con man.
          This is the simple truth.

    • ballotcode says

      Jan 30, 2016 at 11:22 pm

      Show me any person that extends respect to the profiteer [and false prophet] Mohamed and you will see an intellectually bereft, morally bankrupt, and incapable of cogent thought individual.

    • epistemology says

      Jan 31, 2016 at 2:00 pm

      Great wording “Profiteer Muhammad”, I take it as a gift. I only refer to the fact that the profiteer never accepted the ten commandments which the basis of our legal systems. He couldn’t do so, as he contravened all of them. He was an anti-Semitic killer, a sex offender a caravan robber and an impostor. He only lived on robbery and jiziya from the infidels. He hard the worst imaginable morals.

      Nothing he ever did deserves to be emulated.

      I assert that worldcitizen1919 is nutcase

      • Keys says

        Jan 31, 2016 at 6:04 pm

        Yep, Mohammad, a murderer and a liar from the beginnng.

  28. Mo says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 8:34 pm

    I can’t even read this whole thing, it made me so enraged.

    Arrogant, insufferable liberals! I am so sick of them! I almost wish I had Facebook again so I could comment there.

    Why don’t THEY convert to Islam if they love it so much? How I wish we could send every leftist who pushes Islam to a sharia enforcing country. They love it so much, why don’t they go live under it, and leave the rest of us the blazes alone?

  29. Larry A. Singleton says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 8:35 pm

    Just a note. Finally finished The Mythistory of the Crusades by Ibn Warraq.

    Another one I’m going to steal:

    The Islamic countries, in general, and Arab ones in particular, are failures in every way possible. Here is one summary of the situation in the Arab world in 2005:

    “Statistics tell an ugly story about the state of Arab civilization. According to the U.N.’s Arab Human Development Report: There are 18 computers per 1000 citizens compared to a global average of 78.3.

    “Only 1.6% of the population has Internet access.

    “Less than one book a year is translated into Arabic per million people, compared to over 1000 per million for developed countries.

    “Arabs publish only 1.1% of books globally, despite making up over 5% of global population, with religious books dominating the market.

    “Average R&D expenditures on a per capita basis is one-sixth of Cuba’s and less than one-fifteenth of Japan’s.

    “The Arab world is embarking upon the new century burdened by 60 million illiterate adults (the majority are women) and a declining education system, which is failing to properly prepare regional youth for the challenges of a globalized economy. Educational quality is also being eroded by the growing pervasiveness of religion at all levels of the system. In Saudi Arabia over a quarter of all university degrees are in Islamic studies. In many other nations primary education is accomplished through Saudi-financed madrassas, which have filled the void left by government’s abdication of its duty to educate the young.

    “In economic terms we have already commented that the combined weight of the Arab states is less than that of Spain. Strip oil out of Mideast exports and the entire region exports less than Finland. According to the transnational Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), regional economic growth is burdened by declining rates of investment in fixed capital structure, an inability to attract substantial foreign direct investment, and declining productivity — the economic trinity of disaster.

    “Economic stagnation coupled with rapid population growth is reducing living standards throughout the region, both comparatively and in real terms. In the heady days of the late 1970s oil boom, annual per-capita GDP growth of over 5% fueled high levels of expectations. GDP per-capita grew from $1,845 to $2,300. Today, after adjusting for inflation, it stands at $1,500, reflecting an overall decline in living standards over 30 years. Only sub-Saharan Africa has done worse. If oil wealth is subtracted from the calculations the economic picture for the mass of Arab citizens becomes dire.

    “Things are indeed bad in the Arab world and will get much worse.”25

    These failures are unbearable for the Arabs whose only explanation for them is the one that they have been taught over the last seventy five years by intellectuals and frauds like Jean-Paul Sartre, Michel Foucault, and Edward Said, namely, Western imperialism and colonialism, seen as a continuation of the Crusades. Victimhood is exploited to the maximum to blackmail Western nations into giving economic aid, and eases the guilty consciences of the Arabs themselves: it is not their fault that they are such abject failures- it is all the fault of the Crusaders. It is the only way they are able to live with themselves and their moral, intellectual, and economic defeats. At the same time, invoking the Crusades reminds the Arabs of their past triumphs when they succeeded in routing the Crusades at, for example, the Battle of Hattin [1187].

  30. Kepha says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 8:48 pm

    I went to this HuffPo article from another thread, following the link provided by another JW reader. I can only say that Craig Considine’s middle name must be Confused.

  31. mike ryan says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 9:12 pm

    He is handsome, but so very, very stupid.

  32. abad says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 9:23 pm

    Considine is an idiot and completely ignorant about Christian teaching as most liberals are.

    Jesus was not a prophet, He is the Son of God, God incarnate on earth, who died for the sins of the human race – including those of Muslims who reject Him as Lord and Saviour of the human race- then rose the third day after his death upon the cross.

    Lord Jesus Christ is Alive.

    Muhammad was a mortal man, sinful to his very core, promoting the work and wickedness of Satan upon earth.

    Muhammad is Dead.

    • worldcitizen1919 says

      Jan 30, 2016 at 9:56 pm

      Dear Abad,

      Christ returned in the Person of Bahaullah and He stated that both Muhammad and the Quran were from God and I’m inclined to believe Him Who comes from God rather than the opinions of fallible men

      • gravenimage says

        Jan 30, 2016 at 10:23 pm

        As worldcitizen1919 would have it, the Prince of Peace affirms a dark ages warlord and a manual for murder. *Ugh*.

      • Jay Boo says

        Jan 30, 2016 at 10:25 pm

        Muhammad was an immensely fallible man.
        He abrogated his revelations as needed.
        He claimed he was tricked by the devil on at least one occasion in the world famous satanic verses. He was suicidal. He owned sex-slaves and child brides, He ordered the murder of a mother of a breastfeeding mother while she was nursing her baby. I could fill the whole page.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 30, 2016 at 11:52 pm

          Hadiths always make outrageous attacks against Muhammad.

          Only the Quran is the Word if God and the Quran forbids Hadiths just like Buddha said not to worship him or erect statues after He died but that doesn’t stop people.

          These Hadiths have no foundation in truth and reality.

        • Rev g says

          Jan 30, 2016 at 11:59 pm

          Which make the hadiths perfect complements with the quran.

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 5:30 pm

          “worldcitizen1919” likes to pretend that it is only the Hadith that are violent, but anyone who has ever read the Qur’an knows that this is utterly false. The Qur’an itself is grotesquely vicious.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 7:14 pm

          God Who revealed the Quran is not responsible for mans cruelty. God is a God of love and justice and you here try and attach blame to God for what Muslims have done. Christians also have a bloodstained history shall we blame God ffor that also??

          God is beyond reproach. The God Who revealed the Quran and Bible are the same God so when you condemn the Quran you are condemning the God of the Christians also.

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 8:36 pm

          Big difference between the two. You wouldn’t understand.

        • deja vu says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 8:37 pm

          worldcitizen: ‘God is a God of love and justice and you here try and attach blame to God for what Muslims have done.’

          You’re correct, but you have the wrong God. Allah has filled His ‘revealed’ Qur’an with hatred for the non-believer. His ‘justice’ is delegated to His followers to mete out.The difference is that the true God of love and justice does NOT permit His followers to hate, far less kill, those who harm them. Muslims can find plenty of encouragement to torture and kill Christians in their ‘holy’ book. Christians are taught to forgive and pray for the most diabolical monsters on earth. In return they are filled with peace by Jesus Himself.

          Why do you think there are about 150 million Christians suffering barbaric physical and mental torture, starvation, neglect, revolting food and insanitary conditions in the notorious prisons of Iran, Pakistan, Egypt and much of the Islamic world? Do they fight back, or do they pray for their captors and torturers? You tell us as you seem to think you know all about Christianity. Muslims believe they are pleasing Allah by accusing Christians of blasphemy in Pakistan or ‘corrupting the earth’ in Iran just by being non-Muslim. Please tell me how many Muslims are suffering and dying in Western prisons simply for their faith?

          And before you begin citing random passages from the OT, the descriptions of wars and conquests 4000 years ago are just that – historical descriptions. By contrast, the violence directed at non-Muslims is not merely descriptive but PRESCRIPTIVE. You only have to read the first 9 Surahs to realise that. But you believe that the Baha’i can cure all this by holding concerts and papering over the cracks with peace slogans? You must live in a parallel universe if you believe this.

      • Rev g says

        Jan 30, 2016 at 10:29 pm

        Bahaullah made a lot of claims. Of course he didn’t fulfill any of the prophecies for those he claimed to be. I can’t call that a divine being

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 12:07 am

          What’s important is we need a solution for today’s world problems and Baha’u’llah has brought it and it is the unity of all mankind and all religions.

          The equality of men and women and all these wonderful teachings of His are being promoted in the world as the most progressive teachings for this age.

          When Baha’u’llah wrote:

          “The world is but one country and mankind its citizens”

          That released forces that created the sciences and technologies that brought the world together as one country today. The Word of God is creative and releases the forces necessary to fulfill its command.

          Baha’u’llah said that men and women were equal in the sight of God. Since He uttered those Words equality has been embraced more and more but not In past centuries only after Baha’u’llah had uttered the Word of God.

          Because He said Muhammad is true and the Quran is true neither this forum nor a million forums like it will be successful in anything but disgracing themselves for in the future people will look back at forums like this and wonder how people were so backward to be deceived into attacking a Prophet of God.

          The future WILL vindicate what I am saying. I stand alone against the forces of ignorance and prejudice here and time will show I am telling the truth.

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 2:36 am

          Bahaullah called me, he is my baby brother, and he said he wants you to shut the heck up.
          If you believe in him, you will shut up. If not, you will be banished from world citizenship.
          This must be true, obviously.

        • Champ says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 2:19 am

          worldcitizen1919 wrote:

          What’s important is we need a solution for today’s world problems and Baha’u’llah has brought it and it is the unity of all mankind and all religions.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Ok, but “worldclassclown” is overlooking the elephant in the room: islam & company!

          They don’t play well with others; and devout mohammedans have but one thing in mind, and it isn’t what Baha’is are seeking. Talk about wishful thinking from this “worldclassclown”.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 2:47 am

          Again NO!

          Muslims will of course join in and be part of the unity of mankind. Muslims all 1.6 billion are decent good people.

          Good will always overcome evil.

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 2:55 am

          There is no good and evil. Everything is good, no, everything is great! No lesser or greater goods, everything is great!
          Except cookie dough ice cream, it is the essence of bahaullah, and should be consumed daily, with butterscotch topping. It is greater.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 3:53 am

          The majority of people are good.

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 4:31 am

          No, all people must be good. So long as they follow their beliefs. Except YOU.
          You keep saying all beliefs are valid, but then tell us that what Christians are taught is wrong, and that Muslims should not use hadiths, etc. Seems the only one who feels a need to change the intricacies of other religions is YOU.
          At least the Muslims are honest, they want to eliminate all other religions. You say they are all valid…..BUT. I have met used car salesmen with more integrity.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 5:55 am

          I’m only telling you the truth nothing more nothing less.

          1. The Quran says it’s the best Hadith and is complete not me.
          2. The Old and New Testament both Jesus and Moses prophecy Muhammad not me.

          I am only supporting and upholding what is stated in the Holy Books on God.

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 12:44 pm

          No, you are trying to dictate to others how to believe. I guess you consider yourself a learned religious person. We all know how you feel towards them. Does self-loathing drive you to try and lead others astray?

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 1:51 pm

          Just quoting from Holy Books which everyone else does here. No one is compelled to agree.

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 3:41 pm

          Not quoting….paraphrasing, reinterpreting and cherry picking. You ignore context entirely.
          Perhaps you are the incarnation of PT Barnum.

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 3:43 pm

          Satan is well-versed in scripture, and abuses it the way you do as well.

        • Champ says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 2:53 am

          “worldclassclown” wrote:

          What’s important is we need a solution for today’s world problems and Baha’u’llah has brought it and it is the unity of all mankind and all religions.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Well, if that’s true, then take aim at those most likely to stand in your way: muslims!

          If solving the “world problems” is your goal, then go after the chief troublemakers: muslims! And not all muslims are terrorists, but the main terrorists are muslims. Duh …

          So if you’re being honest about your long-term goal of “unity” and solving “world problems”, then you need to find a forum where muslims frequent more often. It doesn’t make sense that you would be, here, pushing your propaganda, since the vast majority of us are counter-jihad.

          Ok, and you claim to want unity and to make a difference, yet here you are causing disunity on a forum that doesn’t even NEED your message. So you aren’t being true to your ’cause’.

          So much for “worldclassclown” wanting UNITY. If that were true, then we would be seeing that, now wouldn’t we? All we get are LIES, sarcasm, and smart ass answers from this clown.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 3:51 am

          The solution to humanitys problems is for east and west to clear up their misunderstandings and stop hating on each other so better relations can flourish.

          The way I understand it is that sadly there is no freedom of speech or expression here the same as in IRAN.

          You say whatever you want freely. You say not so nice things about other peoples religion here but you sadly don’t want them to have the equal right to defend their beliefs as is the case in IRAN.

          Jihad Watch in one hand condemns IRAN but many times when I’ve just defended Muhammad I get told to GET OUT.

          That’s not freedom of speech or expression in anyone’s language. By telling me to get out that’s trying to intimidate me to forfeit my right to defend what I believe to be true that you are defaming publicly.

          That’s no different to the regime in IRAN.

          You attack and defame Muhammad every hour yet want me to go elsewhere because
          I defend Him. Go to a Muslim forum. You’re so much against Jihad why don’t you go to their forums and put your case?

          Be like IRAN if it makes you feel good but I have the right to defend Muhammad who you slander and defame.

          I think you’re making yourself and Jihad Watch look like an intolerant website which tells people to get out who don’t agree with thrm, the very thing you condemn about Muslims.

          So much for so called freedom of speech and freedom of expression.

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 4:19 am

          Again with”we are all equal,” but you know better than we do, we should learn from you.
          Hypocrite.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 5:51 am

          God knows me better than anyone so He’s the best judge

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 12:38 pm

          Your words are those of a hypocrite. Nothing else needs saying. You expose yourself, much like Muhammad did.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 1:50 pm

          Thank you again for you nice words.

        • Champ says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 4:06 am

          “worldclassclown” wrote:

          So much for so called freedom of speech and freedom of expression.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Uh-huh. Go ahead and tell yourself that one as you’re leaving, and don’t let the door hit you on the way out. You see, I really don’t care what you think. BTW, you’re thinking sucks — AND, you don’t respect the views of others here, so why should anyone be *obligated* to respect your views, huh? …’splain that one you whiny lil’ hypocrite!

          Your tripe is tiresome and boring, so GET LOST.

        • deja vu says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 5:43 pm

          A bit late to this thread but may I ask ‘worldcitizen’ to make a comparison of the ATTRIBUTES of Yahweh, God of the Bible, and Allah. If he takes the trouble, he will find that they are polar opposites. How then does he imagine that they are one God?

          http://www.truth-that-matters.com/differences.htm

          Secondly, I have a Baha’i friend who is utterly won over by the fanciful notion that Jesus has already returned in the form of Bahá’u’lláh – meaning ‘glory of God’. The fact that a human being born in the 19th century without any fanfare could be the Second Coming of Christ is, quite fankly, delusional

          More seriously, it flies in the face of what Jesus Himself revealed about His second coming. There’s no mention of a Persian nobody being born during the reign of Queen Victoria, but that all people living on earth who would witness Jesus coming in clouds of glory. Are you suggesting that’s what happened when this ordinary mortal was born?

          Thirdly, to name yourself ‘the glory of God’ is to usurp the True God’s glory, which is something only Satan would do. We are warned that he comes as an angel of light, and not to be fooled by that. Furthermore, Satan excels in counterfeits of which we are also to beware. Remember, that only things of the greatest value are ever counterfeited. Like you, I will one day stand before God in judgment. I am warning you now that you are seriously deceived. Repent before it is too late and reject the lie you have been living.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 7:23 pm

          Thank you for your letter.

          God is called by different names and God has many attributes, some opposing in nature such as Justice and mercy which are opposing attributes so God is both a God of Mercy and of Justice yet only God Knows which one is appropriate to exercise at a given time. No contradiction.

          It is true and beyond any doubt that Baha’u’llah is the Christ returned in the glory of the Father. Tbis is the truth.

          This is some of what He wrote to Christians.

          Say, Lo! The Father is come, and that which ye were promised in the Kingdom is fulfilled! This is the Word which the Son concealed, when to those around Him He said: ‘Ye cannot bear it now.’

          Verily, He Who is the Spirit of Truth is come to guide you unto all truth. He speaketh not as prompted by His own self, but as bidden by Him Who is the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.

          Say: We, in truth, have opened unto you the gates of the Kingdom. Will ye bar the doors of your houses in My face?

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 8:38 pm

          I don’t think truth means what you think it does.

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 6:24 pm

          Yet more from “worldcitizen1919”:

          When Baha’u’llah wrote:

          “The world is but one country and mankind its citizens”

          That released forces that created the sciences and technologies that brought the world together as one country today…

          Baha’u’llah said that men and women were equal in the sight of God. Since He uttered those Words equality has been embraced more and more but not In past centuries only after Baha’u’llah had uttered the Word of God.
          ………………………………….

          “worldcitizen1919” is taking the great accomplishments of the free West and pretending they are the achievements of a tiny cult that enshrines the whitewash of evil among its tenets. *Ugh*.

          More:

          Because He said Muhammad is true and the Quran is true neither this forum nor a million forums like it will be successful in anything but disgracing themselves for in the future people will look back at forums like this and wonder how people were so backward to be deceived into attacking a Prophet of God.

          The future WILL vindicate what I am saying.
          ………………………………….

          This will only be true if Islam succeeds in conquering us–something that “worldcitizen1919” endeavors to enable.

          More:

          I stand alone against the forces of ignorance and prejudice here and time will show I am telling the truth.
          ………………………………….

          How *sickening* “worldcitizen1919” never has a word to say here against the horrors done on the tenets of the Qur’an and the model of the “Prophet”–the murder of Christian girls in Pakistan, mass-murder of Infidels in Nigeria, European girls mass raped, young mothers knifed to death in Israel…he has *nothing* to say against *these* horrors.

          He doesn’t believe these atrocities are a problem, but just the “ignorance and prejudice” of good people here who *stand against them*. *Ugh*.

          More:

          The solution to humanitys problems is for east and west to clear up their misunderstandings and stop hating on each other so better relations can flourish.
          ………………………………….

          He is pretending that violent Jihad terror and daring to say we don’t like being murdered are both “hate”. Sickening false moral equivalence.

          More:

          I defend Him. Go to a Muslim forum. You’re so much against Jihad why don’t you go to their forums and put your case?
          ………………………………….

          “worldcitizen1919” pretends that we can convince pious Muslims that they should not oppress and murder us. Of course this is not the case–orthodox Muslims despise the “filthy Infidel”.

          Pretending that we can simply “put our case” to Jihadists is just ludicrous. No one here has ever had the idea that traipsing off to the Islamic State to tell the good Muslims there that Jihad is wrong would be a healthy thing to do.

          On the other hand, “worldcitizen1919” regularly tells us that the “Prophet” Muhammed was a wonderful, peace-loving guy and that the Qur’an is the peaceful word of God. But will he ever try and convince Muslims of that?

          Of course not–instead, he peddles his whitewash to the *victims* of Islam. *Bleah*.

          The fact is that the purpose of Jihad Watch is to educate Infidels about the threat we face from Islam.

          More:

          The way I understand it is that sadly there is no freedom of speech or expression here the same as in IRAN.

          You say whatever you want freely. You say not so nice things about other peoples religion here but you sadly don’t want them to have the equal right to defend their beliefs as is the case in IRAN.

          I think you’re making yourself and Jihad Watch look like an intolerant website which tells people to get out who don’t agree with thrm (sic), the very thing you condemn about Muslims.

          So much for so called freedom of speech and freedom of expression
          ………………………………….

          “So called”? Is anyone here surprised that “worldcitizen1919” actually despises freedom of expression? I’m not.

          “worldcitizen1919” isn’t facing abridgment of his freedom of speech at all–he’s been able to spew reams of his spam here and on other threads.

          Like so who defend barbarism, he has confused freedom of speech with protection from any criticism of his views.

          That is, he does not believe anyone *else* should be able to exercise their freedom of speech.

          In other words, he has confused freedom of speech *with its opposite*.

          That he characterizes people countering his whitewash here with being imprisoned, tortured, and murdered in Iran explains why he is so comfortable with his apologia for evil. He has no real moral sense.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 7:34 pm

          If you’re really counter jihadists blame Muslims not God and the Quran. God revealed both the Quran and the bible yet here we see some deliberately denying that and blaming Prophets and Holy Books.

          God doesn’t harm anyone and He didn’t order anyone to kill anyone it’s people who do that.God can wipe out the human race with a breathe if He really wanted to. He doesn’t need MUSLIMS to do it. That is why I maintain Muslims commit violence of their own volition not God’s.

          God didn’t order the Christian crusades in 1099 to slaughter innocent men, women, children and infants, Christians did that.

          Trying to lay all the blame at God’s Feet or His Holy Books is a cheap cop out and way of man avoiding responsibility for his OWN ACTIONS.

          God has nothing to do with murders, killings and terrorism and those that accuse Him of it are wrong.

          I am against terrorism but i don’t use terrorism as a cover to attack and slander an entire religion and a Prophet and a Holy Book and God.

          The object here is not to use terrorism as a cover to defame and slander God , Muhammad and the Quran.

          Neither God nor Muhammad nor the Quran are responsible for mans evil deeds. They themselves are solely depi sidle not God or His Prophets.

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 8:20 pm

          The quran is an insipid work, but not an inspired one.

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 8:50 pm

          The grotesquely meretricious “worldcitizen1919” wrote:

          Trying to lay all the blame at God’s Feet or His Holy Books is a cheap cop out and way of man avoiding responsibility for his OWN ACTIONS.

          God has nothing to do with murders, killings and terrorism and those that accuse Him of it are wrong.
          …………………………..

          “worldcitizen1919” is trying to pretend that anyone here is blaming God for violent Jihad when we rightly note that Muslims act on the tenets of the Qur’an and the model of the violent “Prophet” Muhammed.

          Pious Muslims, in fact, openly cite their acting on the Qur’an and Muhammed when they oppress and murder people–but “worldcitizen1919” tries to ignore that.

          Unlike him, no one here believes that the vile Qur’an or the vicious Muhammed are holy.

        • Jack Diamond says

          Feb 7, 2016 at 10:07 pm

          This person does not speak for any orthodox Muslims in the world, has no common understanding with them, any more than he does with Christians here. He is neither fish nor fowl, nor is there any reasoning with him to justify this level of engagement with him.

          The Qur’an he extols makes provably false claims, the earth is flat, the sun sets in a muddy pool, the stars are missiles Allah uses to chase away demons; it calls God the best of all deceivers (a liar); it contradicts the Bible which says that Jesus is the Son of God who died on the cross and rose from the dead. The Qur’an explicitly denies the divinity of Christ, it denies the reality of the crucifixion. Both are not true.

          As for peace and co-existence, the Qur’an, not a hadith, says, 48:29 “Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah and those who are with him are severe against disbelievers and merciful among themselves” 9:123 “O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find harshness in you”–unbelievers, disbelievers, not those who attack you, but fight people simply because of their beliefs.

          and on and on 9:73 “Strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites (bad Muslims) and be unyielding to them”; Allah even gives the one guarantee to the highest rung in Paradise, to who?– “they (who) fight in Allah’s Way, so they slay and are slain” 9:111. This is also the Qur’an, not a hadith.

          “Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger nor acknowledge the religion of truth (Islam) even from among the People of the Book (Jews & Christians) until they pay the jizya (ransom for their lives) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued.” Fight being “qital” a term signifying not only killing but “slaughter” and “massacre.” For what reason? Not because you are physically attacked, you but fight people (and conquer and subjugate them, all of them) simply because of their beliefs (which is to say lack of a professed belief in those twins, Allah & Muhammad). Peace? 47:35 “be not weary and faint-hearted crying for peace when you should be uppermost.” 2:216 “fighting is prescribed for you and you dislike it. But it is possible you dislike a thing which is good for you and love a thing which is bad for you” (i.e. peace).

          “God doesn’t harm anyone and He didn’t order anyone to kill anyone.” God may not,
          Allah however clearly does.

      • RonW says

        Jan 31, 2016 at 7:07 am

        To those of us who think that all ‘religions’ are utter nonsense, adducing a ‘fact’ that “Bahaullah” did this or that carries _no_ weight at all.

        It is only laughable to use one charlatan to prop up the credibility of another charlatan.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 7:18 am

          Thanks Ron. Enjoy laughing. If I add some laughter to your day that makes me happy. Thanks for the compliment.

      • Kepha says

        Jan 31, 2016 at 3:57 pm

        Sorry, there was no flash of lightning from east to west (cf. Olivet Discourse) or great white throne of judgment set up over 19th century Iran. We just have a deluded student who ended up put in front of a firing squad for blasphemy against Twelver Shi’ite Islam.And, didn’t Baha’ullah pretend to be a Sunnite to get refuge in the Ottoman Empire (hence Bahai HQ in Israel)? I don’t see Jesus prevaricating and squirming before the Sanhedrin and Pontius Pilate, but his taking our sins on himself that by his stripes we might be healed.

        Jesus Christ is Lord; Muhammad, Ali, Hassan, Hussein, the Twelve Imamas, the Bab, Baha’ullah, Shoghi Effendi, and their ilk are deceivers.

        • deja vu says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 5:47 pm

          Well said, Kepha.

        • gravenimageg says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 6:35 pm

          Spot on, Kepha.

  33. Veritas says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 9:25 pm

    We already accept Muhammad as a prophet.

    And he said to Him, “I will give You all these things if You will fall down and worship me.”

    • gravenimage says

      Jan 30, 2016 at 10:24 pm

      Brilliant, Veritas.

    • Jay Boo says

      Jan 30, 2016 at 10:28 pm

      I have heard that many mosques place Muhammad’s name at the same height as Allah.

  34. Rev g says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 9:27 pm

    A prophet is known for both their prophesy and their morality.
    Moe fails on both counts.

    • Jay Boo says

      Jan 30, 2016 at 10:31 pm

      Muhammad could not even foretell that his sex slave whose family he had butchered might wish to poison his food.

      Even a fifteen dollar fortune teller could have correctly nailed that prophesy.

      • Champ says

        Jan 30, 2016 at 10:44 pm

        Good one, Jay Boo! LOL! 😀

  35. Larry A. Singleton says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 9:57 pm

    “Islamophobes”

    This tells you all you need to know about this quack.

    First, I’m not the kind of Christian I’d like to be but I know one thing. We do not all “worship the same God”. I know another thing: Satan is a liar.

    I’m not a Bible scholar either but I know the Bible warns me and other Christians about false teachers and false “prophets”.

    I had a hard time getting through Emmet Fox’s book The Sermon on the Mount and Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. These two books really put my spiritual convictions to the test. You either believe the Bible or you don’t. And I say “spritual” convictions rather than “religious” convictions for a reason: Spirituality is God made and religion is man made. And if its a choice between my spirituality and listening to some hack tell me about Muhammad. ESPECIALLY someone who spews trash like: “Let me say this right off the bat: I fully recognize Muhammad’s greatness. He was an exceptional person; he might even be the greatest and most influential human being ever to walk the face of the earth. Prophet Muhammad brought love, peace, and much more to a part of the world that had little of these things.”

    I’ll repeat what I suggested in my last comment: Read a neat little book called Slavery, Terrorism and Islam by Peter Hammond and you decide whether Muhammad made a positive contribution to mankind. In any way.

    I see statements like this ode to Mo and I just want to puke. I’ve read what his own people have said about him. He has murdered men and boys without mercy and raped and murdered their wives, sisters and daughters.

    “he might even be the greatest and most influential human being ever to walk the face of the earth”

    Personally, I’d put Winston Churchill with all his flaws way, WAY over this “example of the perfect man”.

    “One of the most overlooked aspects of Muhammad’s character is his fierce anti-racist stance. He made the unprecedented move of considering both white people and black people as equals in the eyes of God.”

    Really? I suggest people look at the Islamic slave trade and the millions of black Africans who were killed and enslaved by Arab slave traders. Again, Peter Hammond’s book is a good place to start.

    Then read Hugh Fitzgerald’s article Islam as a Vehicle for Arab Supremacism and read how “anti-black racism, of the purest and most virulent kind is found among the Arabs. Anyone who has studied in an Arab country returns amazed at what is openly said about blacks, and not a few are shaken. Anyone who looks into the history of African slavery soon discovers that the Arab slave trade began earlier, and ended later, than that of the Europeans – or rather, ended formally later, but actually continues, in several countries, to this day. Why is this not screamed from every housetop? Why have the countries of the advanced world, that have poured $400 billion into aid to black Africa, not tried to halt the spread of the most retrograde force, a force which encourages the habit of mental submission, and which, in its inshallah-fatalism, is in fact fatal to economic development, not tried to stop the spread of Islam? If they have the wellbeing of black Africans at heart, they must begin to understand, and to share their understanding, that Islam has been, is, and always will be, a force that hinders, with that inshallah-fatalism and that habit of mental submission, any possibility of either economic or intellectual development.”

    And as I just finished quoting Ibn Warraq earlier:

    The Islamic countries, in general, and Arab ones in particular, are failures in every way possible. These failures are unbearable for the Arabs whose only explanation for them is the one that they have been taught over the last seventy five years by intellectuals and frauds like Jean-Paul Sartre, Michel Foucault, and Edward Said, (and Craig Considine) namely, Western imperialism and colonialism, seen as a continuation of the Crusades. Victimhood is exploited to the maximum to blackmail Western nations into giving economic aid, and eases the guilty consciences of the Arabs themselves: it is not their fault that they are such abject failures- it is all the fault of the Crusaders. It is the only way they are able to live with themselves and their moral, intellectual, and economic defeats.

    See my comment below quoting Ibn Warraq.

    “In conclusion, as a Christian, I don’t see my “religion” or “faith” as having a rigid set of principles.”

    Of course he doesn’t. That’s why we’re seeing transgenders education being forced on five year olds and Christians losing their livelihood for standing up for their principles. Because we’re a society of Considines; a society with no principles. No Morals. No consience. Anything goes. Those are Considine’s “principles”. In other words, NONE.

    • Larry A. Singleton says

      Jan 30, 2016 at 9:58 pm

      Here’s a simple book for those wanting to understand this “Islam thing”: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam by Peter Hammond. I’ve got books from floor to ceiling by Robert Wistrich, Andrew Bostom, Raymond Ibrahim, Efraim Karsh, Martin Kramer, Robert Spencer. I’ve got Korans, Bukharis, and a Reliance of the Traveller. SK Malik’s Quranic Concept of War. Taha’s Second Message. But this little volume of about 270 pages is one I reach for the most. It’s a handy little reference and Primer on this “religion of peace” garbage with a great chapter titled The Sources of Islam that explains exactly how the Koran was put together. With opininions by experts:

      Down the side of the page I wrote, ala Batman, “Pow”, next to these paragraphs by men who have studied the Koran and their evaluations of the Koran.

      Edward Gibbon in his Decline and Fall describes the Koran as “…an incoherent rhapsody of fable and precept declamation”. Volume III, Chapter L, P-86

      Philosopher David Hume; “Muhammad bestows praise upon such instances of treachery, inhumanity, cruelty, revenge and bigotry as are utterly incompatible with civilized society….and every action is blamed or praised so far only as it is beneficial to the Muslims”.

      Thomas Carlyle; “A wearisome jumble, crude, incondite with endless iterations…long-windedness…nothing but a sense of duty could carry any European through the Koran”.

      Gerd Puin, so skilled with Arabic that Yemen entrusted him with the analysis of extremely old copies of the Koran wrote “The Quran claims for itself that it is ‘mubeen’ or clear. But if you look at it you will notice that every fifth sentence or so simply doesn’t make sense…the fact is that a fifth of the Quranic text is just incomprehensible…If the Quran is not comprehensible—if it can’t even be understood in Arabic—then it is not translatable….And since the Quran claims repeatedly to be clear but obviously is not—as even speakers of Arabic will tell you—there is a contradiction.”

      Even Muslim intellectuals such as the Iranian Ali Dashti have found the literary style of the Quran to be defective: “The Quran contains sentences which are incomplete and unintelligible without…commentaries…illogically and ungrammatically applied pronouns which sometimes have no referent…more than 100 Quranic aberrations from Arabic’s normal rules have been noted”.

      “Nations that read more are the nations that are most respected. Like the Western nations where people read…everywhere you go on the bus or whatever you see people reading books. Do you see such sights in the Arab world? The problem with the Arab youth is that they do not read” Dhiyaa Al-Musawi.

      “I came to the absolute conviction that it is impossible…impossible…for any human being to read the biography of Mohammed and believe in it, and then emerge a psychologically and mentally healthy person.” – Syrian Psychiatrist Dr. Wafa Sultan.

      Notes on the Quran: “Everything that relates to war is precise, everything that relates to morals is general & confused. Muhammad concerns himself far more with making himself believed than with giving rules of morality. And he employs terror much more that any other motive.

      “Reading the Koran is one of the most instructive things imaginable because the eye easily discovers there by closely observing all the threads by which the prophet held & still holds the members of his sect that the first of all religious duties is to blindly obey the prophet and that holy war is the first of all good deeds.

      “All of these doctrines of which the practical outcome is obvious are found on every page and in almost every word of the Quran are so striking that I cannot understand how any man with good sense could miss them.” Alexis de Tocqueville.

      • worldcitizen1919 says

        Jan 30, 2016 at 10:24 pm

        Ive read the Quran and it’s a Book of God and Muhammad is a Prophet of God and I’m not a Muslim but a Baha’i.

        Who was it that first recognised the truth of Christ? Was it the educated and the religious professors of the time?? The ‘readers of their scriptures’?

        So according to you line of thought Caiphas, the most learned man of his day did the right thing to crucify Christ because he was LEARNED?? So earthly and worldly learning is a HALLMARK for measuring truth???

        WHO was the only one who really knew who Christ was – A FISHERMAN!!!!!! was Peter a professor NO. could he read or count to 10? NO.

        The educated and so called learned CRUCIFIED THE SON OF GOD whilst a mere FISHERMAN knew who he was.

        I’m only an ordinary person and not a professor or a doctor but I can see the TRUTH of Muhammad and the Quran while all those so called educated people as with Caiphas condemn the TRUTH.

        How great is Peter now and how humiliated is Caiphas the most learned of his age??

        Those who uphold and defend the truth of Muhammad and the Quran now are the Peters of today and it’s the Baha’is who are doing that no one else.

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 30, 2016 at 10:27 pm

          Those who uphold and defend the truth of Muhammad and the Quran now are the Peters of today
          ……………………

          More sick calumny from “worldcitizen1919”.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 12:35 am

          Thank you for the compliment gravenimage.

          Your courtesy flatters me.

        • Jay Boo says

          Jan 30, 2016 at 10:36 pm

          worldcitizen1919 said
          “The educated and so called learned CRUCIFIED THE SON OF GOD whilst a mere FISHERMAN knew who he was.”

          worldcitizen1919 conveniently overlooks that the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ was a fulfillment of a prophesy. I brought this up before.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 1:06 am

          Rsurrection is not what Christians have been taught. His real resurrection is that people continue to believe in Him after His death do He never really died as He is the hearts and thoughts of people.

          Same with Muhammad. He is also resurrected from the dead and there are 1.6 billion people to prove it.

          Buddha, Zoroaster, Moses, Krishna, Bahaullah have all need resurrected from the dead. That’s why they are remembered and revered thousands of years later.

          That religions try and seek ‘supremacy ‘ over each other is appalling.

          MY religion truth because Christ rise from the dead! MY religion is true because He’s the latest. And it goes on and wars continue in this never ending ego trip for supremacy.

          Baha’u’llah, Whomis the return of Christ said that there is no superior religion or Prophet that all are sent by the same God and that there are no superior or inferior race, religions, nations or cultures but that all came for a specific time in history to guide humanity at a certain stage of our development.

          If you really think only Christ resurrected then can’t you see the billions of people of other faiths around you in the world? Look around.

          All these Prophets have resurrectedalso and are alive today not just Christianity.

          This ego trip to want to claim one has a superior believe and the only truth is a sickness of our age.

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 1:55 am

          Nope. Batting zero.

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 2:05 am

          So you tell us your religion is truth, we have it wrong.
          Then, in the same post you tell us the ego trip is to think one has a superior belief.
          Well, everyone but you and yours, I guess.
          You are nearly as big a hypocrite as Moe-hammad.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 2:27 am

          NO!

          I’m telling you that you ALL FAITHS have the truth.

          And that NONE is superior not Baha’i or Jew or Muslim or Christian.

          That we are all equal in God’s eyes.

          Christ, Muhammad, Buddha, Zoroaster, Moses, Krishna, the Bab and Baha’u’llah are ALL from the SAME GOD and ALL EQUAL.

          The only difference is the SOCIAL LAWS which were revealed according to mans needs and capacity. Christ for instance never gave teachings on world unity because the world had not yet been discovered.

          Each age and people had its special need and was sent a Teacher or Prophet or Messenger to help guide them.

          The spiritual teachings of all religions such as love, justice, compassion are never abrogated but the social laws are changed by each subsequent Prophet to meet the needs of the time.

          So now we need a world view because due to technology all races and religions and cultures have become intertwined and this is causing conflict. So Baha’u’llah brought teachings on world unity, the oneness of all religions, the equality between men and women and many more so as to renew civilisation because we can’t function as a world on outdated laws and practices.

          It is a question of NEED. Putting HUMANITY first and not sacrificing humanity just to keep outdated and outworn beliefs which are not of any use anymore.

          We need to think of mankind not just our country or our religion or our political party.

          If we do things together it will be cheaper also and unitedly humanity can overcome all its problems but divided it cannot.

          So believing and accepting all faiths is one of the teachings for this age. Any person can go and pray in any other faiths church why not??

          Why the exclusivity and prejudice? We are all human beings.

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 2:30 am

          A truth built of lies is not a truth. You cannot have it both ways.
          To your description, bahai=you’re high!

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 3:07 am

          What’s wrong with accepting all humanity as a family?

          I don’t see anything superior in that.

          That we all have equal rights and respect each other’s beliefs what harm us there in that?

          That we eliminate religious, racial and religious prejudice again what harm is there in that.

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 3:23 am

          Preaching that everything is equal, there can be no one truth, is a blatant lie. Actually you are trying to substitute your absurd claims for others deeply held convictions.
          You may enjoy living a lie. Do not foist it upon me. That you even made an attempt makes you a hypocrite. You are not respecting my views. That I do not respect yours is because I believe in an absolute truth.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 3:55 am

          You mean God? I believe in an absolute truth God.

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 4:13 am

          Based on your statements here, that is an impossible claim for you.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 4:24 am

          We believe in One God.

          Sorry if you misunderstood.

          http://www.bahai.org/beliefs/god-his-creation/

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 4:48 am

          I didn’t misunderstand. You are evading the actual statement.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 6:06 am

          We believe in God.

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 1:57 pm

          I mentioned truth, you reinterpreted because you know you are selling half-truths and all out lies.
          An evasive liar and hypocrite. A pushy coward. Claiming to respect all faiths them trying to get believers to accept your false reinterpretations.
          No wonder Muslims despise you. You are fortunate that most faiths won’t kill you for your lies.

        • Mo says

          Jan 30, 2016 at 10:58 pm

          @ worldcitizen1919

          “Ive read the Quran and it’s a Book of God and Muhammad is a Prophet of God and I’m not a Muslim but a Baha’i.”

          That doesn’t even make logical sense, since Mohammad preached… wait for it… ISLAM, which does not recognize any other faith as being of God.

          Your statement is completely incoherent.

          Now, where is your response to my points?

          You know you have none.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 1:40 am

          The Quran does not teach only Islam but to believe in everything God has sent to mankind. It also prophecies the Day of resurrection when ‘the earth will shine with the Light of her Lord’ which is referring to Baha’u’llah as the Christian scriptures do.

          I’ve never read the Bible? Hmmm. You don’t know me or which books I possess or read yet you are so fast to judge?? Are you a Prophet?

          You Say I keep ignoring a post. I can’t find which one you’re referring to?

          If it’s why Christians should accept Muhammad it’s simply because Jesus foretold Muhammad in the Bible. But please help me locate the questions you are referring to as I am more than happy to reply.

        • IQ al Rassooli says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 4:17 am

          Worldcitizen as a Muhammadan Muslim you are just another clone (among 1.5 billion Muslims) that emulate your mentor Muhammad the consummate Pathological Liar

          Will you please DISPROVE any of the following:

          Allah is NOT God and most certainly NOT the same as the God of Jesus Moses & Abraham

          In Arabic God is called ILAH.

          Allah on the other hand was the NAME of the supreme rock god of Pagan Arabia in the Kaaba (centuries BEFORE Muhammad & his Quran) among 360 other deities in stone

          In fact Allah of Pagan Arabia had three daughters (of the Satanic Verses) called: Al Lat, Al Uzza, Al Manat.

          Muhammad’s father after all (a pagan) was called Abd Allah (meaning Slave of Allah)

          Muhammad metamorphosed the god of Pagan Arabia (Allah) into the God of the Bible

          Can you name a SINGLE prophecy that Muhammad declared that came out to be TRUE?

          Since Muhammad NEVER predicted the future (and his Quran repeatedly asserts that Muhammad was only a WARNER) then by what a stretch of convoluted imagination can Muhammad be called a prophet?

          Craig Considine like you and thousands of utterly clueless so called ‘scholars’ of Islam never tire of showing how irrelevant, asinine and irrational their comments and or conclusions about Muslims and Islam are

          Case CLOSED

          IQ al Rassooli
          Kafir & Proud!

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 5:46 am

          Hi Rassooli,

          I can only tell you what Baha’is believe.

          We believe that there is only one God, the same God taught by Jesus and Muhammad.

          Muhammad after receiving His Revelation from God taught One God and forbid idol worship.

          There are prophecies in the Quran regarding the Day of Resurrection but they can not be interpreted by anyone except the Prophets of God and of course God Himself on the Day of Rsurrection.

          They concern the blowing of the trumpet twice and when the ‘earth will shine with the light of her Lord’.

          There are other prophecies also but the blowing of the trumpets means two Refelations will come from God successively but it says they will be even as a single blast meaning they will represent One Cause.

          This prophecy refers to the Revelation of the Bab followed quickly by thenRevelation of Baha’u’llah but they are both part of what is known as the Bahai Faith.

          The prophecy regarding the earth will shine with the light of her Lord is in reference to
          Baha’u’llah Baha’u’llah’s name means light or glory of God.

          One day, the disturbing trumpet-blast shall disturb it, (the universe), which the second blast shall follow… Verily, it will be but a single blast” (Nazi’at-79:6.7 & 13)

        • IQ al Rassooli says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 8:30 am

          worldcitizen

          Prophecies are NOT supposed to be UNFATHOMABLE except to the one who recites it or God

          First and foremost Allah is NOT God because Allah is the voice over by the ventriloquist Muhammad

          Let me put it even simpler: Muhammad is ALLAH!

          What is remarkable about you as a Bahai, not a single Islamic entity whether Sunni or Shia accept you as Muslims. You are KUFFAR from the point of view of Sharia

          That is WHY your temple is safe ONLY in Israel

          It is a great tragedy that you even bother to call yourself a Muslim. Bahais are persecuted almost to extinction in Sharia compliant Muslim states.

          You (like all true Muslims) are trying to defend the most Indefensible CULT belief system (NOT a Religion) called Islam. Muhammad was not a prophet. Muhammad was the leader of the first Organized Crime Syndicate in human history. His followers for the last 1400 years and as we speak today are following in his foot steps

          Every passing week more and more KUFFAR (none Muslims) are waking up to the greatest threat to humanity posed by Muslims

          The Writing is on the Wall that a world wide conflagration against Islam is brewing with cataclysmic results in the near future

          IQ l Rassooli
          Kafir & Proud!

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 9:27 am

          Hi Rassooli,

          First I’m not a Muslim. I’m a Baha’i ok?

          Next Baha’is believe Muhammad was a Prophet and God is God.

          The Quran says no one understands the allegorical verses except Bod and His Prophets of course. So we can’t interpret them.

          3:7 there is no GOD but he, the mighty, the wise. It is he who hath sent down unto thee the book, wherein are some verses clear to be understood, they are the foundation of the book; and others are parabolical. But they whose hearts are perverse will follow that which is parabolical therein, out of love of schism, and a desire of the interpretation thereof; yet none knoweth the interpretation thereof, except God.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 9:28 am

          Correction God. Apologies.

        • Mo says

          Jan 30, 2016 at 11:49 pm

          @ worldcitizen

          Notice how you keep ignoring me? You know you have nothing to say. You know zero about Christianity. You know zero about Islam.

          Be gone already, lying troll.

        • Champ says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 1:52 am

          “worldclassclown” believes in moral relativism: the belief that there’s no absolute truth, only the truths that a particular individual or culture happen to believe. If you believe in relativism, then you think different people can have different views about what’s moral and immoral.

          Essentially, he doesn’t believe that anyone can do anything *wrong*, which explains why he defends the vilest of criminals: muhammad.

          However, in the end, the moral relativist has no satisfying answer in his/her attempt to respond to the question of if there is anything wrong with anything, and why. There is no standard to turn to and no authority to recognize and respect.

          “worldclassclown” is like a ship without a sail, and he will aimlessly wander the sea of life without any true sense of right or wrong, truth or lies, because in his twisted view it’s ALL the truth and ALL A-OK. Which is, of course, impossible.

          Ok so this better explains why “worldclassclown” won’t condemn muhammad’s evil crimes. In his twisted mind, muhammad had done nothing wrong. Rape? Not wrong in his view! Pedophilia? Not wrong in his view! Murder? Not wrong! Steeling? Not wrong! ..etc, etc

          Wow what a confused individual. Like I said, a ship without a sail …

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 2:11 am

          Muhammad was a Prophet of God and did no wrong.

          The same with Jesus and Buddha, Krishna, Baha’u’llah and all the Prophets.

          Not exactly rudderless. A bit better organised than what some may thing

          http://www.bahaipictures.com/arc.htm

          http://www.bahai.org/frontiers/

          Your all sleeping while we rebuild humanity from scratch.

          Rudderless? Hardly. More like better organised worldwide than any community on earth.

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 2:25 am

          I would hardly call what you are attempting, “rebuild(ing) humanity from scratch”.
          From your description, you are doing so by blaspheming the holy writs of every established religion. Worse, you then try to sell your tripe to people of those established religions. No matter how relative your morality, you really have to lie to yourself a lot to accept such actions as moral.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 2:51 am

          That all humanity regardless of belief are one family, what harm is ther is this?

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 2:58 am

          The lie is the harm. No good can come of it. It is called delusion.

        • Champ says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 3:32 am

          Rev g wrote:

          I would hardly call what you are attempting, “rebuild(ing) humanity from scratch”.
          From your description, you are doing so by blaspheming the holy writs of every established religion. Worse, you then try to sell your tripe to people of those established religions. No matter how relative your morality, you really have to lie to yourself a lot to accept such actions as moral.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Bravo, Rev g!!! I agree 1000%!!

        • Champ says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 3:39 am

          Rev g wrote:

          Preaching that everything is equal, there can be no one truth, is a blatant lie. Actually you are trying to substitute your absurd claims for others deeply held convictions.
          You may enjoy living a lie. Do not foist it upon me. That you even made an attempt makes you a hypocrite. You are not respecting my views. That I do not respect yours is because I believe in an absolute truth.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Exactly!!!

          Another gem, in response to “worldclassclown”! …keep ’em coming, Rev g!!

        • Champ ✞ says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 3:21 pm

          “Central concepts of the Bahai faith are unity, humanity and the establishment of a harmonious global society.”

          The only One that will create a “harmonious global society” is JESUS CHRIST upon His second coming!!!

          Mark my words, the “unity” that Baha’i are trying to establish will NEVER, EVER work, because establishing world peace will one day be the special and unique work of the One True God: JESUS CHRIST!!! Not man’s effort.

          Put your faith in Him, and not in *any* religion. Being a Christian is not about becoming religious, but in having a personal relationship with our Precious Savior, and He is the only One who can save you.

          Done with this thread.

        • deja vu says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 6:47 pm

          worldcitizen: You claim, ‘Your [sic] all sleeping while we rebuild humanity from scratch.’

          Who is this ‘we’? The Baha’i?! You cannot change sinful humanity by concocting a fanciful ‘unity’ based on the efforts of sinful men. Only a sinless One could do that – and He will when He comes again. His Name is Jesus Christ. Only HE, as the Son of God, is qualified to redeem mankind because of the supreme sacrifice He made on the cross for our sins. Only HE is holy, righteous, omniscient, omnipotent, transcending all others. It’s *spiritual* matter, not one of wishful thinking by fallen men. The best you’ll achieve is a very temporary bandaid over a running sore and a corrupted spirit, not a cure.

          Mohammed is dead, Buddha is dead, Hindus believe in 70 million gods. And you think the Baha’i are going to bring about complete harmony and peace by sitting around in a circle holding hands, playing a guitar and singing kumbayah? If you think I’m mocking, I’ve been to such an event with my Baha’i friend. Do you really imagine it changed people inwardly? Next day they’re just the same as they ever were.

          ‘..Christians should accept Muhammad it’s simply because Jesus foretold Muhammad in the Bible.’

          A prophet prophesies, that’s his role. If he doesn’t prophesy he isn’t a prophet. What prophecies did Mohammed make? Nostradamus did better than him. You speak as if the work of redemption of sinful mankind hadn’t been accomplished by Jesus Christ. What need was there of anyone else – far less fallen men who made far fetched claims to be inspired by God – but were NOT God Himself as Jesus is. And it’s not just what He said, but what He accomplished which no man, however noble, can achieve. As these leaders contradict what Jesus said they were obviously not speaking God’s unchanging Truth, but listening to seducing spirits.

          At His crucifixion Jesus proclaimed that the work of redemption was *finished*. Why would such a monumental event like that be followed by a pagan herdsman 600 years later who claimed to have been assaulted by djinn in his cave and rushed out in terror? It’s a pity he didn’t stick with that account because it was very telling – one time when he should not have listened to his mother who persuaded him otherwise. And you say that Christians must accept a demented warlord and mass killer Mohammed as a ‘prophet’? Jesus said, “I AM the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.” (John 8:12). The Light extinguishes the darkness of ideologies such as Islam and the rest. God desires that no one should perish by listening to the lies of the enemy of our souls but be drawn to the Light of the World who loves them enough to suffer and die for their sins.

          The One that Jesus promised to send was the Holy Spirit of God, to be a ‘helper’ to His followers. Satan would have you believe otherwise. You have been blinded by error and the seductive idea that ‘we’ can do anything to unite mankind. That requires regeneration of the *spirit* of a man. NO mere man has the power to do that. Lucifer is nothing more than a seducing spirit – get away from him and run to Christ.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 7:39 pm

          All of the Prophets resurrected not only Christ. They are alive in the hearts of people all over the world.

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 10:46 pm

          Resurrected doesn’t mean what you think it means.

        • deja vu says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 10:06 pm

          worldcitizen:

          ‘All of the Prophets resurrected not only Christ. They are alive in the hearts of people all over the world.’

          You do not know the meaning of the word Resurrection – it is hardly an everyday event, but one specifically pertaining to Christ. To reduce such a momentous historical event to merely ‘living in the hearts of people’ is to deny Christ’s deity while elevating the importance of people – and in no way contributes to your desire to unify the world. You must be very naive to believe that you can do such a thing.

          The main problem I see with the Baha’i, is that its faith is really in people’s ‘goodness’, not in God, whatever it might claim. It’s tenets are unsupportable by ample evidence to the contrary and its beliefs are too nebulous and impractical to build a life on. If you have done the Biblical studies you say you have, you would know that human beings are not ‘good’ naturally, only God is good. How do you define ‘goodness’ anyway? A tribe in Papua New guinea worships Judas Iscariot because they value treason as a virtue. Another has no word for ‘thank you’ because they aren’t grateful. Beliefs are not innate – they are primarily cultural. But most believe in a power greater than themselves. You seem to equate God with His creation. By the way, Christians do not believe they are good (quite the contrary) but that they are saved by the suffering and death of Jesus Christ who took the punishment for their sins on Himself, thus paying the penalty due for their sinful natures and lives. In Christ alone can we be pardoned because He alone has paid the penalty. I quote:

          ‘We shouldn’t wonder that so much importance is attached to our Lord’s resurrection. It is the seal and memorial stone of the great work of redemption, which He came to do. It is the crowning proof that He has paid the debt He undertook to pay on our behalf, won the battle He fought to deliver us from hell, and is accepted as our guarantee and our substitute by our Father in heaven. Had He never come forth from the prison of the grave, how could we ever have been sure that our ransom had been fully paid (1 Corinthians 15:17)? Had He never risen from His conflict with the last enemy, how could we have felt confident that He has overcome death – and him that had the power of death, that is the devil (Hebrews 2:14)? But thanks be unto God, we are not left in doubt. The Lord Jesus really “rose again for our justification.”

          We have reason to be very thankful, that this wonderful truth of our religion is so clearly and fully proved. It is a striking circumstance that of all the facts of out Lord’s earthly ministry, none are so incontrovertibly established as the fact that He rose again. The wisdom of God, who knows the unbelief of human nature, has provided a great cloud of witnesses on the subject. It would be impossible to prove anything in the world, if we refuse to believe that Jesus rose again.’
          J C Ryle

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 11:11 pm

          We believe in God.

          We just understand the scriptures of each faith in a way that creates unity and harmony between us.

          People can be united if they don’t cling to superiority and exclusivity which most clergy teach their followers.

          For instance I accept the Bible as the Word of God but understand it in a way that I’m not being unfaithful to it by also accepting the Quran and Buddha and Krishna etc.

          Baha’is believe all religions, the major faiths that we know of came from God for our own benefit.

          We can love all humanity including Jews, Muslims, aetheists, homosexuals does it matter? We are all sinners in God’s eyes so if we want forgiveness we must forgive others and love all mankind.

          Of course this does not apply to criminals or terrorists as they must be eliminated.

          But I can go and pray in a Synoagogue or a Church. Do I always have to pray in a Baha’i House of Worship? No. God is everywhere and in people’s hearts too so when we hurt or attack our brother we are also attacking God for man was created in God’s image.

          I pray in a Buddhist or Hindu temple so what? God is there too. I accept all Holy Books. Christ taught love but universal love.

          Christ didn’t say to Christians. ‘Go and tell everyone you are superior and if people don’t accept me they are cursed’. But that’s all we hear today. MY religion is superior to yours!! My Prophet is GREATER. YOURS is FALSE. So we have wars and kill each other.

          That’s man made. Even Muslim await Christ’s return so when they say no one will come after them they’re not telling the whole truth. We believe Baha’u’llah was the return of Christ in the glory of the Father and taught to put aside all our prejudices and be as one human family and not to hate on each other. Something wrong with loving all humanity and being tolerant towards people of other religions?

          People want a better and peaceful world free from hate and prejudice so it devolves upon all of us to treat our brothers as we ourselves wish to be treated.

        • gravenimage says

          Feb 2, 2016 at 7:03 pm

          Yet more from “worldcitizen1919”:

          Baha’u’llah, Whomis (sic) the return of Christ said that there is no superior religion or Prophet that all are sent by the same God and that there are no superior or inferior race, religions, nations or cultures…
          …………………………………

          No religion, nation, or culture is superior or inferior?

          This means that civilized nations like Switzerland, Canada, and the United States of America are to be regarded as *no different* from Nazi Germany or the Islamic State. *Ugh*.

          Pretending that no creed is evil–even Fascism and Islam–negates any sense of moral decency.

          More:

          Even Muslim await Christ’s return
          …………………………………

          “worldcitizen1919” won’t tell you, of course, that this is not about Christ at all, but the Muslim concept of “Jesus”–really, “Isa”.

          The Muslim “Jesus” is not just not a savior–he is not a healer or a peacemaker, either. In the last days–the “return” Muslims are waiting for–“Isa” offers Christians a stark choice: conversion to Islam or death. In other words, the role of “Jesus” in Islam is to *kill Christians*.

          More:

          Thank you for the compliment gravenimage.

          Your courtesy flatters me.
          …………………………………

          “worldcitizen” wants to pretend that my countering apologia for evil makes me “discourteous”–but it is not courtesy to toady to savagery, and to pretend that deceit is truth.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 2, 2016 at 10:25 pm

          Oneness and equality is referring to the good in people and religions.

      • Kepha says

        Jan 31, 2016 at 4:02 pm

        Larry, I don’t know how old you are, but take it from a grandfather who still remembers the Silly ‘Sixties and Sillier ‘Seventies.

        This business of an “anti-racist” Muhammad is claptrap spawned by the role of Black Muslims in the Civil Rights movement. It shot forth a book entitled _The Autobiography of Malcolm X_ (ghosted by Alex Haley) which represents the resentments and anger of a low-class con-man who latched on to the Nation of Islam; then got some knowledge of the orthodox kind. Repeat a lie often enough, and people will believe it.

        Perhaps Bahai’ism won’t work because it tries to reconcile fundamentally opposed principles from a number of religions?

        Peace in Christ

        • Larry A. Singleton says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 7:41 pm

          I don’t buy into the Mo is anti-racist crap. Where did you get that? And I have read The Autobiography of Malcolm X. I read it when I was 16 and I’m looking at it now above my desk. Sitting right next to The Man by Irving Wallace. (the black president we should have had. I kept waiting for this book (or movie) to be brought up after Obummer’s election. Nope.) I like to think that Malcolm would have totally ditched Islam the way he ditched his black supremist bs after going to Mecca. He reminded me of me. I used to be a hard core racist as a kid. Until I read this book, The Man, Rivers of Blood-Years of Darkness, Black Like Me, etc. (I’ve got a print of Malcolm X on my wall done by this black guy doing life in Leavenworth prison.)

          I’m 58. I don’t know a thing about Bahai’ism. I’m not sure I’ve ever even heard of it.

          Maybe you missed it but I put something by, I think, Hugh Fitzgerald who wrote about the Muslim/Arab African slave trade. I think Mo even had a special word for black people didn’t he? “raisins”? I’m not sure. Arabs were the most racist black hating people on the planet according to this or some other article I read.

          I’m an expert on racism as far as it goes. I use my real name. I don’t hide behind a moniker. It stopped making sense after awhile. If I’m going to stand for my principles—why hide?

          Go to my Facebook Notes and read my “Racism Speech”. (and Public Records) and other things. I qualify right off the bat by admitting I’m just a dumb-ass construction worker. I’m not edgeekayted. I’ve got no degrees. Just a diploma from the school of hard knocks.

          And too bad that “Notify me of follow-up comments” doesn’t work. Like why does the writing in this feature have to be so light?

        • gravenimage says

          Feb 2, 2016 at 7:08 pm

          True, Larry–Muhammed used to call Black people “raisin heads”. Worse than this is the word for Blacks Muslims use to this day–“abd”, or slave.

          Muslims carried on the savage African slave trade *for centuries*–and are still enslaving Africans today in places like Sudan and Mauritania.

          And I don’t believe there is anything dumb about doing construction work.

  36. Richard says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 11:30 pm

    ““Why a Christian [Can’t] View Muhammad As A Prophet,”

    A few reasons

    Muhammad…Said Allah does not love those who reject Islam.(Quran 30:45, 3:32, 22:38)

    Jesus…Said God loves everyone. (John 3:16)

    Muhammad…”I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah”(Muslim 1:33)

    Jesus…”He who lives by the sword will die by the sword.” (Matthew 26:52)

    Muhammad…Stoned women for adultery.(Muslim 4206)

    Jesus…”Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”(John 8:7)

    Muhammad…Permitted stealing from unbelievers.(Bukhari 44:668, Ibn Ishaq 764)

    Jesus…”Thou shalt not steal.”(Matthew 19:18)

    Muhammad…Permitted lying.(Sahih Muslim 6303, Bukhari 49:857)

    Jesus…”Thou shalt not bear false witness.”(Matthew 19:18)

    Muhammad…Owned and traded slaves. (Sahih Muslim 3901)

    Jesus…Neither owned nor traded slaves.

    Muhammad…Beheaded 800 Jewish men and boys.(Abu Dawud 4390)

    Jesus…Beheaded no one.

    Muhammad…Murdered those who insulted him.(Bukhari 56:369, 4:241)

    Preached forgiveness.(Matthew 18:21-22, 5:38) Murdered no one.

    Muhammad…”If then anyone transgresses the prohibition against you, Transgress ye likewise against him”(Quran 2:194)

    “If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.”(Matthew 5:39)

    Muhammad…Jihad in the way of Allah elevates one’s position in Paradise by a hundred fold.(Muslim 4645)

    Jesus…”Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called Sons of God”(Matthew 5:9)

    Muhammad…Married 13 wives and kept sex slaves.(Bukhari 5:268, Quran 33:50)

    Jesus…Was celibate.

    Muhammad…Slept with a 9-year-old child.(Sahih Muslim 3309, Bukhari 58:236)

    Jesus…Did not have sex with children.

    Muhammad…Ordered the murder of women.(Ibn Ishaq 819, 995)

    Jesus…Never harmed a woman.

    Muhammad…Ordered 65 military campaigns and raids in his last 10 years. (Ibn Ishaq )

    Jesus…Ordered no military campaigns, nor offered any approval of war or violence.

    Muhammad…Killed captives taken in battle.(Ibn Ishaq 451)

    Jesus…Never took captives. Never killed anyone.

    Muhammad…Encouraged his men to rape enslaved women.(Abu Dawood 2150, Quran 4:24)

    Jesus…Never encouraged rape. Never enslaved women.

    Muhammad…Demanded captured slaves and a fifth of all other loot taken in war. (Quran 8:41)

    Jesus…”The Son of Man came not to be served, but to serve.” (Matthew 20:28)

    Muhammad…Was never tortured, but tortured others.(Muslim 4131, Ibn Ishaq 436, 595, 734, 764)

    Jesus…Suffered torture, but never tortured anyone.

    Muhammad…”And fight them until there is no more persecution and religion is only for Allah” (Quran 8:39)

    Jesus…”Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you” (Matthew 5:44)

    Muhammad…Blessed the brutal murder of a half-blind man (al-Tabari 1440)

    Jesus…Healed a blind man (Mark 8:28)

    Muhammad…Ordered a slave to build the very pulpit from which he preached Islam. (Bukhari 47:743)

    Jesus…Washed his disciples feet.(John 13:5)

    Muhammad…What are the Greatest Commandments? “Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause” (Muslim 1:149)

    Jesus…What are the Greatest Commandments? “Love God and love thy neighbor as thyself.”(Matthew 22:34-40)

    Muhammad…Demanded the protection of armed bodyguards, even in a house of worship (Quran 4:102)

    Jesus…Chastised anyone attempting to defend him with force.(John 18:10-12)

    Muhammad…Died fat and wealthy from what was taken from others in war or demanded from others in tribute.

    Jesus…Demanded nothing for himself. Died without possessions.

    Muhammad…Advocated crucifying others.(Quran 5:33, Muslim 16:4131)

    Jesus…Didn’t advocate crucifying anyone. Was crucified himself.

    Muhammad…According to his followers: Had others give their lives for him.(Sahih Muslim 4413)

    Jesus…According to his followers: Gave his life for others.(John 18:11 and elsewhere)

    Maybe Craig Considine needs to consider some of these reasons.

    • Karen says

      Feb 1, 2016 at 7:18 am

      Beautiful post.

    • Karen says

      Feb 1, 2016 at 9:57 am

      Craig, is there any way you can get this excellent comparison to Craig Considine? It may help open his eyes, or give him something to think about. Or perhaps his readers may benefit.

      • Karen says

        Feb 1, 2016 at 9:58 am

        Excuse me, I meant to address you as ‘Richard’!

      • ECAW says

        Feb 1, 2016 at 10:27 am

        Karen, You can post it here as a comment but I’ll give you 1000 to 1 against it opening his eyes. Just might reach one or two of his readers though, that’s why I bother commenting there:

        https://craigconsidinetcd.com/2016/01/21/why-a-christian-can-view-muhammad-as-a-prophet/

        • Karen says

          Feb 2, 2016 at 2:22 pm

          Thanks ECAW. I saw some of your comments, and I see what you mean about the site itself.

    • gravenimage says

      Feb 2, 2016 at 8:00 pm

      Wonderfully illuminating compare and contrast, Richard.

  37. Lisl says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 11:31 pm

    Not to mention that in some Islamic countries, making a statement that there are any prophets after Mo will land you in prison.

    • gravenimageg says

      Jan 31, 2016 at 6:43 pm

      This is, in fact, the main reason that Baha’i are oppressed and murdered in Iran today.

    • Jack says

      Feb 1, 2016 at 8:02 am

      Can Worldcitizen specially list prophecies that The Prophet has prophesied that have come true and those that haven’t? How long after Mohammed’s death was the Quran written?

      • worldcitizen1919 says

        Feb 1, 2016 at 9:31 am

        The Quran was revealed to Muhammad by the Angel Gabriel over a 23 year period while He was alive.

        There is a prophecy about two revelations from God to succeed one another and it is prophesied as two successive blasts on the trumpet but says in actuality they are but one blast.

        The first trumpet blast was the Revelation of the Bab followed quickly by the second blast, Revelation that of Baha’u’llah and they constitute to get her a ‘single blast that is one Faith. The Bahai Faith as Two Prophets.

        Then where is says there will be a blow on the trumpet and the ‘earth will shine with the light of her Lord’ Baha’u’llah means light of God or Glory of God. And is another reference to Baha’u’llah.

        39:69
        Arberry: And the earth shall shine with the light of its Lord, and the Book shall be set in place, and the Prophets and witnesses shall be brought, and justly the issue be decided between them, and they not wronged.

        79:6-10 One day, the disturbing trumpet-blast shall disturb it, Which the second blast shall follow: Men’s hearts on that day shall quake:—Their looks be downcast. The infidels will say, “ Shall we indeed be restored as at first? What! when we have become rotten bones? ” “ This then,” say they, “ will be a return to loss.” Verily, it will be but a single blast,

        Of course there are other prophecies as well as meanings in the disconnected letters of some Suras. But this for now.

  38. Janet says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 11:33 pm

    I don’t have to accept a false prophet who was also a pedophile…get muslims to accept Christians huffy!

  39. italiankiwi says

    Jan 30, 2016 at 11:58 pm

    I’ve left the following post on Dr Consedine’s Facebook page:

    “First of all, like you, I’m disturbed by the threat of violence of any kind breathed by those with differing views/opinions/stance are not shared; there is excuse/explanation for them. I do wonder though if the Twitter authorities will be as prompt when similar expressions are formulated by Muslims against anybody who dares to disagree with them – you know, just to coherent with Twitter’s stance in all circumstances.

    Secondly, however, reading your articles (the latest in the Huffington) shows that your “fluid” view of biblical Christianity is so movable as to not resemble the biblical revelation in the least. As for equating Christianity and Islam, hence Jesus Christ and Muhammad, clearly show me you only know the two faiths in a rather superficial and, shall we say? fluid way.

    May I respectfully suggest that you read the Gospels again Sir; you will not find much fluidity in Jesus’ statements and requests to His hearers, quite the opposite.
    You can’t have it both ways Sir, calling yourself a Christian (hence presumably a Jesus follower) and then shaping a spirituality to your own wishes, desires and preferences.

    Thanks for the opportunity to contribute.”

  40. Smilin' Jack says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 1:06 am

    John 14:16-17 CANNOT refer to Mohammed. Verse 17 says “he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.” Mohammed cannot be IN anyone. He is DEAD! Jesus is ALIVE!

  41. Kema says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 1:19 am

    The crux of the matter is that the western population are still voting this leftest into power to continue to ruin their nations. What is actually happening with the western religius and political leaders. Cant they see what is ahead of tjem if they continue to play the cool guy with islamic supremacists. Its scary to think what the west will become in 10-20years time.

  42. ANIL GUPTA says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 1:38 am

    Why not accept Ram, Krishna, Buddha also as prophets? It will be easiest to accept one basic truth that GOD is one but different people call Him by different names. Once this truth is accepted all hatred towards ‘other’ faiths will vanish.This alone is the way to usher in world peace in today’s turbulent atmosphere.Religious heads of all faiths should issue a “Declaration Of Unity of World Faith”. But I am sure they will not do this. Because that will shut their shops for proseltysation.The main question is whether we want this planet to survive or parish in the fire of religious hatred?

    • worldcitizen1919 says

      Jan 31, 2016 at 6:21 am

      Anil,

      You and I are brothers already so easy isn’t it?

      • Jack says

        Feb 1, 2016 at 7:52 am

        Worldcitizen, in the Name of Islam Hindus and Buddhists are being slaughtered by Muslims for who they are, and their unwillingness to convert to Islam. Also, their Holy Shrines are destroyed by Muslims given any opportunity to do so, They are a blasphemy to the Prophet, an idol, whereas they worship no one but Allah, according to islam.
        Just for kicks, the Pope offered to pray for peace with the Religious leaders of Islam at the Vatican. Can we change that and have the Pope pray in Latin at the Grand Mosque in Mecca? Have live TV in Saudi Arabia and the Muslim World of the Pope and Grand Mufti & Pope shake hands, embrace and make a pledge of mutual Peace and Respect?

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 8:51 am

          While they talk innocent people die. I wish they’d do something instead of just talking.

        • Jack Holan says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 9:18 am

          This proves the point. If Islam must use the threat of death to convert Non-Believers, it’s not a Religion but a cult.

    • Rev g says

      Jan 31, 2016 at 12:50 pm

      Religions hold some very different and irreconcilable beliefs as sacred truths. One cannot just declare this null. That actually is disrespectful to all religions

      • Mike Proulx says

        Jan 31, 2016 at 1:06 pm

        This is not possible, as it is not scriptural.

        Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12

        God’s word is unadulterated, we either believe the Bible to be God’s Holy word or we don’t, its really that simple, nothing complicated here. Men try to make it difficult to receive forgiveness of sin. God made it easy for us, all we have to do is ask Him and He is faithful to His promises.

        Get to know Jesus, He Loves us so much.

        • Rev g says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 2:50 pm

          I was referring to differences like between Hindu, Buddhist, Shinto, islam, Judaism, Christianity, etc…
          To try and amalgamate them is to be disrespectful to them all.
          They cannot all be reconciled.

        • Mike Proulx says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 3:17 pm

          No problem Brother, got you.

    • gravenimage says

      Jan 31, 2016 at 6:46 pm

      The people of most faiths can and do live in peace, whatever their doctrinal disagreements.

      But Islam *sacralizes* the oppression and slaughter of nonbelievers.

    • deja vu says

      Jan 31, 2016 at 7:38 pm

      ANIL GUPTA:
      ‘Why not accept Ram, Krishna, Buddha also as prophets? It will be easiest to accept one basic truth that GOD is one but different people call Him by different names.’

      Simple answer – because they all teach different ‘truths’. If men (such as Buddha) or gods such as some of the 70 million Hindu gods, or Shinto with its reverence for ancestors, taught the same message there could be some merit to your argument. Buddha was a wise man, but never claimed deity and Hinduism is polytheistic.There is little if any common ground with the Biblical God, and His attributes are diametrically opposite to those of Allah in the Qur’an.

      The only link Islam can claim with Judaism and Christianity is that the Arabs were descended from Ishmael, Abraham’s illegitimate son through Hagar his wife’s Egyptian maid. They went on to form many pagan tribes throughout Arabia, which they remained until Mohammed appeared on the scene in the 7th century AD. Even so, among the words attributed to Mohammed the Qur’an is a contradictory, opaque, non-chronological jumble of pagan beliefs with orally-transmitted references from the Torah and garbled teaching from early gnostics. No wonder it is such a mish-mash of error and confusion.

      Furthermore, it really doesn’t matter what name people call ‘prophets’ or gods. It’s their *attributes* that count. If they differ in every way, logically they cannot all be the same and neither will their teachings be. Truth is an absolute, not relative – relative truth is not Truth. There can only be one.

      God hates a mixture of truth and error. That is what Baha’i, well-meaning though they might be, are trying to ignore. In the mixture error will corrupt the truth. Mixing oil and water has never worked, and never will work, but they keep persisting because they will NOT accept that they are, in the end, mere created beings and only a transcendent, omnipotent God can do what man finds impossible.

  43. Lee says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 1:50 am

    If there’s a silver-lining to the formation of the Islamic State, it’s that a suitable place now exists for Craig Considine, his collaborators at Huffington Post, and many other journalists and politicians to be sent. Rouge him up, put a wig on him, and parachute him onto the Islamic State. It’s win-win, win-win.

    We win in getting rid of an Islamofascist collaborator; Considine wins by being surrounded by his soul-mates; the 30,000 or so Muslim rapists of the Islamic State win through having a tender new white kuffar to enjoy; and the Muhammad-sanctioned sex-slaves of the Islamic State might not get raped quite so often, with smug grinning Considine available to service his fellow Muhammadans.

  44. Baucent says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 2:16 am

    Considine appears to know nothing about Christian doctrine and even less about Islam. That is proven by his lack of understanding as to why Christians will never accept Muhammed as any sort of “Prophet”. In fact I rather think he is being deceptive when he describes himself as a “Christian”, unless he believes having been born to believing parents makes him one.

  45. Anil Gupta says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 2:40 am

    Why not accept Ram, Krishna and Buddha as well as prophets?If people accept that GOD is one but different people call Him by different names whole problem of religious bigotry will vanish.

    • worldcitizen1919 says

      Jan 31, 2016 at 6:17 am

      We Baha’is accept Krishna and Buddha and I read the Books of Buddha and Krishna. A common respect for all faiths is healthy.

      • Mo says

        Jan 31, 2016 at 9:16 am

        @ worldcitizen1919

        “We Baha’is accept Krishna and Buddha and I read the Books of Buddha and Krishna. A common respect for all faiths is healthy.”

        You respect a child rapist? That speaks volumes about you. Thank you for putting that on the internet for the world to see!

        Now, stop your games and answer the points I put to you. (You know you cannot. You know you are nothing but a lying troll.)

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 9:30 am

          Dear Mo,

          Which points are you referring to? I can’t find the post you’re talking about.
          Can you send it again please?

      • Rev g says

        Jan 31, 2016 at 1:15 pm

        Bahais are equally disrespectful of all religions. They think all of them have their own religions wrong, and bahai can tell them the right way to believe their faiths.
        Bahia are the learned religious scholars of all religions, even though they disdain learned scholars of religion.
        Muhammad taught similarly, but when people kept calling him it, he murdered them. He had one thing bahai don’t, conviction.

        • Kepha says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 4:05 pm

          They’re a little like post-Christian liberals, aren’t they?

  46. Mark A says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 3:17 am

    Considine must have overlooked, or ignored, the Biblical references to false prophets.

  47. ECAW says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 4:24 am

    I’ve been trying to lighten Craig Considine’s darkness for months now, eg:

    https://craigconsidinetcd.com/2016/01/29/about-those-violent-verses-in-the-bible/

    or at least attempt to warn his many viewers of his deluded view of Mo (I am inclined to think he has fallen in love with him). I think, or at least hope, that his blog is a good place to try to take the argument to the opposition…not the indoctrinated from birth Muslims but the confused waverers like Considine. It’s good, and surprising, that he doesn’t ban me but disappointing that so few readers are willing to debate…and those that do are always so illogical or deceitful.

  48. Nathan Harlis says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 4:46 am

    The whole Islamic concept it to kill kill kill until there is no one left but Islam.
    This is cold blood murder and no murder can get to heaven.
    The love of Christ did not forbid the existence of other beliefs.
    The Obamas are not african american they are muzys. Put these words on youtube for the video. Obama admits he is muslim his own words.
    He only claimed to be black to get the black vote.
    When Obama infiltrated it was not only him that infiltrated it was whole islamic terrorists race.
    These people did not infiltrate america just to play tiddly winks.
    They want all of us to be dead wake up and smell the coffee.
    If you keep smelling your old worn socks you wont never see it.

  49. Richard says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 4:49 am

    Of course there is another reason why Christians (or anyone) can’t view Muhammad as a prophet,

    Taking the definition of a prophet as an individual who has been contacted by the “supernatural divine being”, and to speak for this being, serving as an intermediary with humanity, delivering this new-found knowledge from the supernatural entity to other people,

    Muhammad was never in touch with any such being. He was a charlatan and a fraud. The proof of this is the Quran, a human compilation, full of errors, absurdities, human hate and prejudices.

  50. Louis says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 5:28 am

    Mohammed was the offspring of a fallen angel!!

  51. Ken Pittman says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 7:32 am

    In the Parable of the Tenants, christ told us that after his crucifixion there would be no more prophets sent by God. No need once the Son was killed. Hebrews have been waiting now for 2,500 years. In order to convert to Islam or accept Muhammed, a Christian must agree with his accusation that the Gospel authors were liars.

    Imagine the repercussions if a Christian were to accuse Mohammed of the same?

    I can pretty much rely on scripture and reason to deny that Mohammed’s writings and claims have anything to do with the God of Abraham, David and Moses.

    No matter their religion or beliefs, I hope every man, woman and child who is God’s, is able to live their life in a way that pleases him and allows them to share in the afterlife in eternal bliss but I have come to realize the truth for me is found in my Roman Catholic Christian faith and will die knowing my King is the savior Jesus Christ.

  52. Arthur says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 8:02 am

    Yes everyone must bow down to the Jew killing child raping SAVAGE!!!!

  53. Dennis says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 9:55 am

    Let me present another viewpoint: whether Mohammad was good or bad, whether he existed or not, is irrelevant. What s relevant is what Islam is doing today! And that, we should not accept! I believe neither in Jesus or Mohammad. My life is fulfilling and happy. There is no reason to believe in either if them. However the danger created by Islam is real and bad for the world community. That I most definitely believe in. All of us who feel ths way should pressure our governments to be vigilant.

  54. Gene Poole says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 10:08 am

    Huffington Post should be proud of their support of Islam. Over 600,000 Christians were killed in Syria by Muslim extremists, nearly 1.5 million have disappeared. Many appear to have been thrown overboard and drown by Muslims en-route to Europe. Genocide is being committed right under the left wing media’s nose and they ignore it as not to offend Muslims.

    • Western Canadian says

      Jan 31, 2016 at 2:53 pm

      Ignore it, or approve of it??

  55. rita says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 10:46 am

    Here’s Craig’s personal blog. https://craigconsidinetcd.com/

    Unfortunately, in Huffpost you can only leave a comment if you have a Facebook account, which I don’t. But I left him a comment on his blog.

  56. Ellen Lock says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 11:21 am

    Islam…go pound sand.

  57. David says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 11:27 am

    Is there a better way of advancing in the current pseudo academic world than to spout such idiocy? As far ad advancement goes, publishing this nonsense will help his career. Consider the political climate at these universities.

  58. TheDane says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 11:38 am

    … and Considine should be sent to Raqqah in Syria! He would be an enormous hit among the devils there; their man-bride of the week!
    It’s odd how stupidity seems to be a side-effect to following Satan and his lies. Is that perhaps why the World seems to be getting stupider by the day..?? Leftists are anti-Christian and anti-Israel, and they are pro-islam, and are they the most clever people on the planet? Nope!

  59. Richie says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 12:03 pm

    Atheism is rife on the left, yet I notice many atheists who are quick to bash Christians and Jews will be among the first to defend Islam. Could it be as I suspect because they see Islam as a friend in their shared hatred of Christianity and Judaism? Huffingtonpost is a very anti Christian far left site,so its no shock they are pushing another line of BS to undermine and destroy Christianity

    • Mike Proulx says

      Jan 31, 2016 at 1:20 pm

      That is true Richie, majority of the media is anti-Christ they hate the true God and they continue mocking the Almighty.
      They will have their day of recompense trust me. God is not Mocked.

      Matthew 24:35

      Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. …

      Galatians 6:7

      Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap.

      Jesus will soon return to receive His Bride

    • dawn jens says

      Feb 5, 2016 at 2:05 am

      …destroy Christianity – good luck with that – Jesus Christ walked the Earth over 2,500 years ago and started his Universal Church (aka The Roman Catholic Church) this “prophet” was around 1,500 years ago – classic good versus evil Jesus Christ said “you are either with me or against me”

      a simple choice of eternal life with God or eternal separation from God – you will hear “depart from me”

      “I never knew you” and thrown in the Lake of Fire or “well done good and faithful servant of mine”

      • Rev g says

        Feb 5, 2016 at 2:29 am

        2500 yrs ago?!?! Um, no.

  60. Mo says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 1:12 pm

    @ worldcitizen1919

    “Dear Mo,
    Which points are you referring to? I can’t find the post you’re talking about.
    Can you send it again please?”

    Nice try. Go play your games elsewhere. You have wasted enough of my time and energy and that of everyone else here. You know zero about the Bible or the Quran, since you have read neither, much less compared the two.

    Islam, jihad, and sharia are serious issues. They deserve to be discussed in a serious manner.

  61. Western Canadian says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 1:25 pm

    This moron has obviously read neither the Bible, or the unholy koran.

  62. Greytigertx says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 2:50 pm

    Oh my. This is wrong on so many levels. Aside from the fact that Moohammy never made a prophecy that came true (or otherwise). He was an illiterate arab con-man. Period. He was a pervert who molested young children and anything with breasts. He “revealed” edicts as he saw fit or as the situation dictated. Frequently, these revealations were designed to grant himself special priviledges. He kept the best booty for himself. He never worked a miracle in his entire life unless fooling thousands of peoplecan be considered a miracle. All in all, he was a disgusting miscreant with delusions of godhood. A total wasteof flesh and bone. Themuslims would do better praying to a pig diety. At least theycould eat himwhem sitting in a mountain cave waiting to be bombed.

    • Rev g says

      Jan 31, 2016 at 4:08 pm

      I was biting my tongue from voicing that comparison, thanks for bringing it up.

  63. Keys says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 5:01 pm

    Arrogant ignoramus = “To be honest, I don’t see Muhammad as the “final prophet.” That’s too limiting for me, but it’s also why I’m able to consider him to be a prophet on equal footing with Jesus and others.”

    With that statement both Christians and muslims could describe him as such. The difference is many Muslims could justify killing him for blasphemy, whereas a Christian could not justify killing him for blasphemy. If he went to Syria, he might be able to be in an Daesh video.

  64. pfbonney says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 9:07 pm

    This is a(n edited, for clarity) transcription I made of a brief video I found on the FB page “Escaping Islam”. It was by a former Muslim Imam who had converted to Christianity after researching just who the Koran said the “Prophet” Jesus is, according to the Qu’ran, on behalf of one of his students. The answer he found for the basis of his conversion:

    “If My Islamic Teacher says that the “Word of God” is Creator (which means Jesus is Creator), then they must become Christians”

    Who is Jesus, to a Muslim?

    The name “Jesus” is in the Quran. Why is the name of someone who exists in the Christian world (after all, the word “Christian” does come from “Christ”) even mentioned in the Quran?

    Now, a typical Muslim believes that Jesus Christ is not God. God is only Allah. They believe Allah never got married. So there were no sons for Allah. And they say that Jesus is not God. So, to Muslims, Jesus is just another prophet.

    For a Muslim to learn who Jesus is, he can read the entire Quran: all 114 Chapters, all 6,666 verses in the Quran and just look for anything that talks about Jesus. Or, he can just read this little summary.

    The name of the Prophet Muhammad is mentioned in 4 separate places. But the name of Jesus? You will find his name mentioned much more often, in 25 different places.

    Being an Islamic Quran, this appears odd. Why does the Quran give more preference to Jesus?

    Mariam, Mother of God

    And another thing: You won’t see any woman’s name in the Qu’ran. You won’t see the Prophet Muhammad’s mother’s name, or his wife’s name, or any of his children’s names. But you will see one woman’s name mentioned in the Quran: Jesus’ mother, Mariam.

    In fact, the name of the Holy Quran Chapter 3, is, “Family of Mariam.” And the Holy Quran Chapter 19, is actually named just “Mariam.”

    So just what is it that the Quran says about Mariam, the mother of Jesus? In the Holy Quran Chapter 3, Verses 34 onwards, it says that Mary was born without original sin, that she never committed any sin in her life, that she was ever virgin.

    In Chapter 50, Verse 23, it says that she went to Heaven with her physical body. Even the Assumption is written in the Holy Quran.

    The ‘Prophet’ Jesus

    And now about Jesus. When you read Chapter 3, Verses 45 to 55, there are 10 points which the Quran makes about Him.

    The first three things Quran does is to give the three names for Jesus: “Word of God”, “Spirit of God”, “Jesus Christ”.

    Then the Quran says that Jesus started talking when he was still very small, just two days after his birth, in fact.

    The Quran then says that Jesus created a live bird using only mud. He had taken some mud and formed a bird. When He breathed into it, it became a live bird. So the Quran reveals that Jesus can give life; He gave life to mud, clay.

    And then the Quran says that Jesus cured a man born blind, and a man with leprosy, etc. And not only that, the Quran says that Jesus gave life to dead people; that Jesus went to heaven; that He is still alive and He will come again.

    Muhammad, Compared with Jesus

    Now compare all this with what the Quran says about the Prophet Muhammad. It says that the Prophet Muhammed is not the Word of God; is not the Spirit of God; never spoke when he was 2 days old; never created any bird with mud; never cured any sick people; never raised any dead people; and that the Prophet Muhammad, himself, died. And according to Islam, he is not alive and he will not come back.

    So there’s a lot of difference between these two prophets. Muslims don’t call Jesus, “God”. Muslims consider Jesus to be just a prophet. But, according to the Quran, Jesus must be a prophet greater than Muhammad.

    If Muslims Believe the ‘Word of God’ is the Creator, then Muslims Must become Christians

    So now, ask your teacher of Islam, “Teacher, how did God create the universe?” If he is a knowledgeable teacher, he should say something to the effect of, “God created the universe through The Word.” As in, through actual speech. Then the question becomes, “Is the “The Word” The Creator, or a creation?” He must be clear. The question? Whether the Word of God is Creator or creation.

    The Quran says that Jesus is Word of God. If your Islamic teacher says that the Word of God is the Creator, which will mean that Jesus is the Creator, then Muslims must become Christians.

  65. Jack says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 9:54 pm

    Craig Considine falls far short of a public ignoramus. He’s supposed to be a professional in the field of Media and relies solely on what he is told be the only religion to ‘benefit’ from such outlandishness. Craig should give some though to how a religion can consider anyone a Prophet if their Religion was fulfilled several centuries before Islam. Christianity from their view has not metamorphosed into Islam. They are two distinct Religions like Day and Night except in the Presidents view, Leftists or Muslims who want to convert them. We, Jews, and Christians are being shoveled (not spoon fed) a lot of crap by slick Williys, fools & idiots and your plain ignoramus. Which one of these are you Craig Consdidine or did the Huff just order you to write it

  66. mortimer says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 10:47 pm

    There is no excuse for Craig Considine not knowing all the repulsive facts about Islam, because it is all freely available on the internet.

    Islam has many inherent problems that contradict modern ideas, human rights and civil liberties…and especially Islam’s greatest liability, the criminal character of Mohammed.

    Surely, Craig Considine cannot defend Islam’s main problems:

    1 No Golden Rule 2 No free speech 3 No democracy 4 Jihad – holy war of world conquest 5 Honour killings 6 Taqiyya – sacred lying 7 Taqlid – group think 8 Misogyny – repression of women 9 Rape of kafirs as jihad prizes 10 Genocide 11 Ethnic cleansing 12 Anti-Semitism 13 Al-Walaa wal-Baraa – Islamic apartheid 14 Torture 15 Plundering 16 Cruel and unusual punishments 17 Backwardness – stagnation 18 Violence against women 19 Slavery 20 Discriminatory Sharia law 21 Hatred of the arts 22 Pedophilia disguised as child marriage 23 Fifty generations of cousin marriage and genetic defects 24 Cruelty to animals 25 Extortion tax to humiliate disbelievers 26 No historic basis 27 Anti-intellectual obscurantism 28 FGM 29 Arab racism 30 Theocratic totalitarianism 31 Vigilantism 32 Supremacism 33) Islamic history is a river of blood, killing and betrayal.

    Most of all, Islam’s GREATEST LIABILITY is the amoral, opportunistic character of Mohammed. Mohammed was an enslaver, a heartless, vengeful contract killer, a womanizer, a glutton, a slanderer, a misogynist, a godfather, a highwayman, a mass murderer, a rapist, a prevaricator, a Death Cult leader, a plagiarist, a playboy, a greedy plunderer, a bigot, a spirit medium, a tribal warlord, a narcissist, a necrophile, a pedophile, a cross-dresser, an epileptic, a torturer, an two-faced, inconsistant hypocrite and fabricator of instant revelations, a delusional madman, an illiterate bufoon, an OCD mental case, and a superstitious primitive.

    By any civilized standards, Islam should denounced and reviled.

    Why is Craig Considine so egregiously opposed to CHECKING HIS FACTS before writing? He must be psychologically unhinged to actually promote such a vile criminal as Mohammed.

  67. mortimer says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 11:10 pm

    Craig Considine thinks Mohammed is a George Washington?

    Did Craig read the Sira, the hadiths, the canonical commentaries of the Islamic consensus, the Koran, the Sharia law, the modern manuals of jihad? No…none of the above?

    Then what makes him or anyone at Huffpo, for that matter, an EXPERT ON ISLAM?

    How does not doing the basic reading list qualify any of the Left experts on a topic? Is blankness somehow an open-sesame to an ‘INSTANT KNOWLEDGE’ only the Left can acquire…or do the Left get their knowledge about Islam from spirit-channelling, the horoscope page, or from that great Islamist, Karl Marx?

    • Angemon says

      Feb 1, 2016 at 11:38 am

      Speaking of muhammad, George Washington and HuffPo:

      • gravenimage says

        Feb 2, 2016 at 8:35 pm

        Robert Spencer and David Wood are have a rollicking good time here–but to *very* good effect! Thanks for posting this.

        • gravenimage says

          Feb 2, 2016 at 8:50 pm

          “having”

  68. mortimer says

    Jan 31, 2016 at 11:16 pm

    No one can admire Mohammed and be psychologically well at the same time.

    • Jack says

      Feb 1, 2016 at 8:18 am

      Worldcitizen1919 I’m happy you brought up Human Shields. This is not the White Man’s tactic but one that was employed by Mohammed himself. You need to read more. During the 20th Century, British soldiers lament in letters home (now archived) how the “Arab fighters hide behind women and children making it impossible to shoot at them. This is also documented in the Palestine Post. King Hussein used Human Shield using the useful idiots who came over from Europe to protect a Tyrant. Who knows how Leftists think. There are no shortage of unwilling Human Shields in Gaza. Some journalists weren’t intimidated to report under death threats by Hamas, once they left & don’t plan to return. Others, just reporters, are scared, just as their editors so a very blurred picture comes out.

  69. Cal says

    Feb 1, 2016 at 11:03 am

    More left wing babble.

    Attempting to support the current immigration policy of a filed government. These idiots actually think that the US will come around and let more of them in so that they can pull the same crap they are pulling in Europe. Not on my watch.

    These idiots ask for acceptance but offer none. It’s their religion.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNvoImGJBnQ

    #radicalliberaldemocrat
    @SpartanGateway

  70. CHUN HAN CHIANG says

    Feb 1, 2016 at 12:53 pm

    Wow, this man just went fully retarded. I am mostly impressed that he is able write such baseless lie and misconception without doing some fundamental research first. I believe that he is either a secret convert to Islam since they can do taqqiya, or an outspoken ignorant.

  71. Brian says

    Feb 1, 2016 at 3:52 pm

    The Huffington Post eh? … NOT impressed in the LEAST!!
    Journalists and the news media have been censoring horrific events, (not reporting them), to keep these Muslims in a favorable light, but I’ll have you know that we KNOW different!!.
    Craig Considine … you must think that citizens are stupid and cannot see what’s REALLY going on, when it comes to the Muslims. Don’t you know that since ALL sources of news media refused to report the TRUTH, citizens have been finding the information on the internet, because YOU and other reporters have totally failed to provide the ACTUAL news and NOT some sugar coated story … when it comes to doing your jobs, you have ALL failed miserably.
    There is NOTHING that you can publish that would tell me differently or change my views on these ignorant, demanding lowlifes that you can never please, even after we give them EVERYTHING they need to survive which all paid for with our tax dollars. We ALL see what these Muslims are capable of .. raping children, beheading, stoning, defecating in community pools, forcibly trying to gain entry into the women’s change room and the bullshit they’re stirring up in Europe. YOU may respect this “Muhammad”, but to me and many others he was nothing more than a pedophile who supported all the evilness that Islam has to offer.
    I think it’s time you, (Craig), take your head out of your ass and smell the coffee … these people threaten us with death, threaten the take over of our countries, wanting to impose shariah law on the entire world and warn of the Islamic wave that is soon approaching the west, it’s a wonder these vermin haven’t been deported.
    Personally, (as a journalist), I think you’re a joke and should be replaced with a reporter that has enough balls to report the TRUTH. Obviously,, you don’t have what it takes …. BALLS!!

    PS. Your editorial made me want to puke and laugh at the same time … you’re nothing more than a liar.
    PPS. You CAN’T be taken seriously with that haircut either!!

  72. John says

    Feb 1, 2016 at 7:29 pm

    All Muslims are not terrorists, but it sure seems like the vast majority of Muslims are pacifists. When the Muslim population join together with the law authorities of the land and help find and persecute the terrorists and evil ones among them, at that point will I start showing respect for my Muslim brothers and sisters. Until that time comes, to me every Muslim “could be” a bad Muslim. What I would like say is -start treating women as if they were your own sisters and/or mothers and stop taking advantage of them! It’s just wrong!

    • worldcitizen1919 says

      Feb 2, 2016 at 2:27 am

      I hope to see that too and in individual countries like Indonesia they are always hunting down terrorists. One of the problems is Islam has no ‘CENTER’ to turn to.

      To clarify issues or change tac, they have no world authoritative body that has any authority that could say for instance ban terrorism or ban hate speech and enforce it.

      One of the things in the Muslim world believe it or not is ‘too much freedom’ for the clergy to do and say what they want and not enough rule of law. They are untouchable.

      The curse of clergy and priesthood is beginning to become apparent this century. Holy wars, child sexual abuse rampant. Just who are these self appointed experts of religion? Where did ithey come from? I don’t see a single verse in any religious scriptures endowing them with any sort of magical special powers yet people follow these leaders more than they do their own Holy Books.

      Banning the activities of these religious leaders may be a good start to ending terrorism.

      • Foolster41 says

        Feb 2, 2016 at 4:34 pm

        “To clarify issues or change tac, they have no world authoritative body that has any authority that could say for instance ban terrorism or ban hate speech and enforce it.”

        Yeah, if only there was some sort of group that quoted the Qouran and had the authority to issue fatwas. Maybe a group that lives where the religion originated… if only… (/sarc)

        “I don’t see a single verse in any religious scriptures endowing them with any sort of magical special powers yet people follow these leaders more than they do their own Holy Books.”

        Once again, as pointed out you are incredibly naive and clearly haven’t read the Qouran close enough (or are choosing to ignore the parts you don’t like) .

        I know you reject that Hadiths, but a vast majority of Muslims do not. (And even then as people have said, there’s plenty of violence and supremacist in the Qouran and the Qaoran lacks much basic instruction like prayers 5 times a day etc.). As it was pointed out before, it is NOT US WHO NEEDS CONVINCING, but the violent Muslims that they need to reject that Hadith.

        “Banning the activities of these religious leaders may be a good start to ending terrorism.”

        Suuure! The problem is the religious leaders, who quote the Qouran and Hadith to justify what they do are the ones promoting terror in Saudia Arabia, Iran, ISIS, Jordan, “Palastine” etc. so of course their not going to ban themselves, and the idea is absurd.Apparently you know the Qouran much better than these authorities, so you should go tell them they are wrong!

        Of course, I’m only re-capping what other people have said here, which just shows we’re going in circles…

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 2, 2016 at 7:56 pm

          Islam is clearly in decline and has been since the Ottomon Empire collapsed and now it is fighting within itself and we Baha’is believe that Islam is headed towards complete secularisation.

          Although for now some groups are attempting to revive the caliphate it has gone for good and this is just the last flame before the fire goes out completely.

          The secularisation of Islam is something that is a foregone conclusion and is in line with the abolishment of both the Caliohate and the Sultantate.

          Restlessness in Suadi Arabia and Iran is further evidence the new generation want secularisation. And this has been th trend of Islam for over a century that cannot be denied as it is an historical fact.

  73. Mo says

    Feb 2, 2016 at 5:33 pm

    @ worldcitizen1919

    “Muhammad was a Prophet of God and did no wrong.”

    So you don’t think raping a nine year old child is wrong?

    Answer me. Stop your lies and your games and answer me.

    • worldcitizen1919 says

      Feb 2, 2016 at 11:56 pm

      Baha’is believe Muhammad was a Prophet of God and was perfect and free from error and sin like Jesus.

      Whoever wants to believe in these false accusations does not accept the true station of Muhammad whether Muslim or non Muslim.

      • Champ says

        Feb 3, 2016 at 12:07 am

        Well, if that’s true, then the Baha’i faith is just as screwed-up as islam!

        • gravenimage says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 5:10 pm

          Champ, Baha’i grew out of Shia Islam in Iran.

          And it did not start out as a peaceful faith at all–after the “Báb”–who claimed to the Muslim Mahdi, incidentally–and his violent followers came to a bad end, Bahá’u’lláh decided to take a less blood-stained approach, probably so it would be less likely that majority Muslims would slaughter them outright.

          The only good thing one can say about Baha’i today is that it is not as violent as its parent creed of Shia Islam–but it is just as bent on “defending” the foul “Prophet”.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 7:06 pm

          Baha’is only believe in being peaceful that’s why we’ve never taken up arms in Iran.

      • Rev g says

        Feb 3, 2016 at 12:36 am

        False accusations? Muhammad committed so many sinful acts they are hard to tally.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 12:47 am

          We believe the same about Christ of course. He was Divinely guided and infallible.

        • Rev g says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 1:28 am

          Mohammed has nothing in common with Christ.
          Your religion seems bat-shit crazy. It, or you, likely both.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 2:59 am

          Well I don’t think that about you.

      • Mo says

        Feb 3, 2016 at 5:02 pm

        @ worldcitizen1919

        “Baha’is believe Muhammad was a Prophet of God and was perfect and free from error and sin like Jesus.”

        How DARE you put a child rapist in the same category as Jesus Christ?

        “Whoever wants to believe in these false accusations does not accept the true station of Muhammad whether Muslim or non Muslim.”

        More incoherent drivel. False accusations, eh?

        I guess the hadith below are all lying?

        YOU are the liar. And you know you are. You’ve never read the Quran, much less any hadith. You’ve never read the Bible. Notice how you don’t deny this fact? You know you cannot deny it. You know you’ve read neither book.

        You know zero about Islam. You know zero about Christianity. You’re a liar, nothing more.

        From the hadith of Bukhari, volume 5, #234

        “Narrated Aisha: The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, “Best wishes and Allah’s blessing and a good luck.” Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah’s messenger came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.”

        Bukhari vol. 7, #65:

        “Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: “I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).””

        From the hadith of Muslim, volume 2, #3309

        Aisha reported: Allah’s Messenger married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine….

        From the hadith of the Sunan of Abu Dawud, volume 2, #2116

        “Aisha said, “The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old.” (The narrator Sulaiman said: “Or six years.”). “He had intercourse with me when

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 7:03 pm

          Hadiths are not the Word of God. Many Hadiths are incorrect and wrong as that one is.

          Aisha was married to Myhammad according to Wuranic law, that us, when she had reached maturity. At about 17-19.

          Muhammad was foretold in the Bible by both Christ and Moses and was pure and holy and free from sin. That is what Baha’is believe.

          You are free to your opinion as I am to mine so we agree to disagree.

        • Angemon says

          Feb 4, 2016 at 9:48 pm

          Except you’re not presenting opinions, you’re asserting things as if they’re facts. And I have a certain deja vu about those “opinions” of yours:

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/01/huffington-post-christians-should-accept-muhammad-as-a-prophet#comment-1368963

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 5, 2016 at 12:13 am

          As Baha’is, we turn to Baha’u’llah for truth and we believe what He says is truth as it is the Word of God and He confirms that Muhammad and the Quran are from God.

          Baha’is believe, is the Manifestation of God for this age.

          “Behold ye that dwell on earth, and ye denizens of heaven, bear witness, He in truth is your Well-Beloved. He it is Whose like the world of creation hath not seen, He Whose ravishing beauty hath delighted the eye of God, the Ordainer, the All-Powerful, the Incomparable.”

        • Angemon says

          Feb 5, 2016 at 10:34 am

          worldcitizen1919 posted:

          “Baha’is believe, is the Manifestation of God for this age.”

          That doesn’t actually addresses what I said. Anyway, I think I’ll wait for the next one, thank you very much – it’s 2016.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 5, 2016 at 11:54 am

          I’m very sorry if I haven’t responded. I’ll check my email. Did you post me?

    • Jack HOLAN says

      Feb 4, 2016 at 11:43 pm

      Why not see if the Huff will be willing to take the position you mentioned with JC say in the name of fairness and non discrimination. Just look at the story in JihadWatch about the German Muslim leader caling for reform in the Islamicreligion and now he’s getting death threats.

  74. Foolster41 says

    Feb 2, 2016 at 9:23 pm

    “Islam is clearly in decline and has been since the Ottomon Empire collapsed and now it is fighting within itself and we Baha’is believe that Islam is headed towards complete secularisation.

    The secularisation of Islam is something that is a foregone conclusion and is in line with the abolishment of both the Caliohate and the Sultantate.”

    Although for now some groups are attempting to revive the caliphate it has gone for good and this is just the last flame before the fire goes out completely.”

    Yes, the rise of power and boldness of Islamic states and rogue groups (thanks to the Dhimi west) like Iran, the palastinain authority, HAMAS and ISIS is a CLEAR indication of decline and their secularization, and how Muslims want just to be peaceful secularists!

    Never mind the crows chanting death to non-believers, the murder and torture of non-believers! Don’t believe your lying eyes Kuffir! It’s a forgone conclusion, based on zero actual evidence!

    “Restlessness in Suadi Arabia and Iran is further evidence the new generation want secularisation. And this has been th trend of Islam for over a century that cannot be denied as it is an historical fact.”

    By “restlessness” do you perhaps man the murder of homosexuals, brutal sharia punishments a determination for nuclear weapons and posturing such as humiliating the US military? That restlessness? If you mean secularist movements, perhaps you could provide evidence of this. I’ve yet to see any strong movement that could credibly overthrow the Islamist regimes. Perhaps you forgot the president of the US turned his back on the pro-secularist revolution movement?

    Once again you’re showing you have no idea what you are talking about and are talking more wishful thinking rather than fact. But instead of admitting you don’t know and educating yourself, you insist on this lie. Ugh.

    • Foolster41 says

      Feb 2, 2016 at 9:25 pm

      The above post was to WorldCitizen1919.

      and Crows=Crowds

    • worldcitizen1919 says

      Feb 3, 2016 at 12:06 am

      All I did was show from history the gradual decline of Islam as a world power. I’m not saying there aren’t oppressive regimes today only that I believe they will disappear and decline also and we will see Islamic secularisation in places like Iran and Saudi Arabia and the disappearance of terrorism.

      I’m not stating that it will disappear overnight, just stating an historic trend. Women want rights in Saudi Arabia and that’s not a small thing as woman constitute a large portion of any population. Next Iran. Everyone knows of the agitation of the young in Iran who want the Mullas gone.

      • Rev g says

        Feb 3, 2016 at 12:27 am

        You showed only one thing, your complete ignorance of the dynamics of the rise and fall of national, regional, etc powers.

      • Foolster41 says

        Feb 3, 2016 at 7:05 pm

        And I pointed out what you said makes no sense, what with steadily increasing radicalization. calls from Islamic nations for the death of Jews and the US from Iran and the PA/Hamas, the increased terror attacks and supremissism (see: Germany and France) and territorial gains of ISIS.

        You didn’t “show:” any thing. You gave ZERO evidence that Islamism is on the decrease, but I gave examples of the very opposite as I said above. What you give are feelings of wanting peace, not hard fact. Feelings might have worked for Chamberlain but it doesn’t work for the other sane people.

        Good god, you must work hard to be as naive as you are, to actively shut out the world around you and pretend it is the opposite because it fulfills your fantasy of how you wish the world to be (all the world religions ignoring how their religions are different and pretending their one, and ignoring the Supremisism and violence in the Qouran and hoping they will just forget it).

        I give up. There’s hope for a clueless person, but not a person who wants to remain clueless.

        If you want to actually start presenting facts to your arguments, that would be another thing.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 7:13 pm

          Just wait and see. There’s most likely be one more major confrontation then Islam will ne adult rises across the globe.

          Time will show my views on this issue to be correct.

        • Champ says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 7:16 pm

          “worldcitizen” is a lost cause serving an evil cause: Baha’i nonsense!

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 7:17 pm

          I understand that anyone without the Baha’i perspective would feel lost and hopeless but we see things differently like we are on the verge of world peace.

          That we are experiencing the birth pains of a new world and the death pains of the old ways. You wait and see that everything I am saying will happen because its foreordained in all God’s Holy Books that peace will come to the world and we are not that far off.

          Militant Islam began in 666 AD and is almost ended and maybe after one more major confrontation it will disappear entirely like the Umayyads and Ottomans did.

  75. Foolster41 says

    Feb 3, 2016 at 7:13 pm

    Also I find it telling how you keep repeating that the Hadiths are wrong, but don’t give any solid evidence why they are incorrect, or show in any meaningful way you are trying to convince MUSLIMS of this since they are the ones who are following the evil Hadiths, not us. Thus it would be much more important to convince them, wouldn’t it?

    It comes off once again, as Mr. Spencer has pointed out of a Islamist apologist who is trying to convince westerners that Islam is a religion of peace while doing nothing to actually convince the Muslims themselves of this. Thus is strikes of trying to actually give cover to the violent supremacists.

    • worldcitizen1919 says

      Feb 3, 2016 at 7:29 pm

      The Bahai Rvelation is based upon God fulfilling His Promises that a Promised One would appear on earth. The return of Christ, the Fifth Buddha etc

      This new Promised One we belive is Baha’u’llah. And He is saying Hadiths are not authentic.

      So it is on the authority of Baha’u’llah Who is a Manifestation of God that I make the claim.

      If Baha’u’llah IS Who He says He is then Hadiths are false. He only recognises the Quran.

      People who don’t accept Baha’u’llah of course will claim that Hadiths are true.

      I can only say God has said they are false and I accept that as final and no one on earth has the authority to over rule God.

      So disagree but as far as Baha’is are concerned. God says they’re false. Don’t accept Baha’u’llah’s claim but that’s my evidence, that God Himself rejects these Hadiths through Baha’u’llah.

      If Christ descended to earth tomorrow and told you all Hadiths were false would you disagree with Him?.. That’s my position. Sorry you can’t accept that but to disprove me you have to disprove that Baha’u’llah is the Promised One . Good luck with that because however many Baha’is they kill in Iran and have killed they can’t get us to recant.

      • Foolster41 says

        Feb 3, 2016 at 7:50 pm

        “If Christ descended to earth tomorrow and told you all Hadiths were false would you disagree with Him?.. That’s my position. Sorry you can’t accept that but to disprove me you have to disprove that Baha’u’llah is the Promised One . Good luck with that because however many Baha’is they kill in Iran and have killed they can’t get us to recant.”

        Nice appeal to authority AND a non-sequitur argument there.

        My point is we keep bringing up how Islam is violent because of the hadiths. But you keep saying over and over, well the Hadiths are false, but THIS ARGUMENT IS MEANINGLESS TO THOSE WHO ARE VIOLENTLY BELIEVING IN THE HADITHS. WE ARE ONLY POINTING OUT WHY MUSLIMS THEMSELVES ARE BEING VIOLENT, AND SO SAYING TO US “They are false” IS MEANINGLESS! MAYBE THIS BOLD TEXT WILL MAKE IT SINK IN BECAUSE YOU ARE BEING EXTREMELY THICK!

        And the very fact that your Baha’u’llah claims that all religions are really one, ignoring their vast differences (some regions are monotheistic, some are polytheistic) PROVES that he was a false prophet. There you go.

        • Foolster41 says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 8:06 pm

          Jesus actually philosophized Baha’u’llah!

          “4Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.” …

          “22“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.

          26“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.” (Matt 24:4-8,22-28, NIV)

          He claimed to be a reincarnation of Jesus himself, and didn’t come as Jesus said he’d come, therefore he was a false prophet.

          I do believe Islam won’t prevail, not because of some mushy idea of secularization, but because in the end God will triumph.

        • Rev g says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 8:42 pm

          Oh my!, someone did the reading!
          The Foolster ain’t no fool.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 8:57 pm

          These are some of Baha’u’llah’s titles in the Bible. Baha’u’llah was also descended from Abraham whose ‘seed’ would inherit the earth.

          “To Him (Baha’u’llah) Isaiah, the greatest of the Jewish prophets, had alluded as the “Glory of the Lord,” the “Everlasting Father,” the “Prince of Peace,” the “Wonderful,” the “Counsellor,” the “Rod come forth out of the stem of Jesse” and the “Branch grown out of His roots,” Who “shall be established upon the throne of David,” Who “will come with strong hand,” Who “shall judge among the nations,” Who “shall smite the earth with the rod of His mouth, and with the breath of His lips slay the wicked,” and Who “shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.” Of Him David had sung in his Psalms, acclaiming Him as the “Lord of Hosts” and the “King of Glory” “To Him Haggai had referred as the “Desire of all nations,” and Zachariah as the “Branch” Who “shall grow up out of His place,” and “shall build the Temple of the Lord.” Ezekiel had extolled Him as the “Lord” Who “shall be king over all the earth,” while to His day Joel and Zephaniah had both referred as the “day of Jehovah”

          Excerpt From: Effendi, Shoghi. “God Passes By.” Bahá’í eBooks

        • Rev g says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 9:04 pm

          False prophecy from a false prophet.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 3, 2016 at 8:30 pm

          Sorry as I misread your post. Humble apologies.

  76. Foolster41 says

    Feb 3, 2016 at 7:17 pm

    “You see, most Nazis just want peace! Never-mind the taking of the Sunterland, the calls for world domination, the reports of murders and mistreatment of Jews and the taking of Checlezavakia and Poland! Nazism is in decline! My view will be vindicate in a few years! Naizsm will disapear!” -WorldCitizen1919 in 1930s probably.

  77. Foolster41 says

    Feb 3, 2016 at 8:57 pm

    “Oh my!, someone did the reading!
    The Foolster ain’t no fool.”

    Thanks, Rev g. 🙂

    “Sorry as I misread your post. Humble apologies.”

    WorldCitizen admiring he was wrong about something for once, instead of stubornly ignoring people’s arguments and repeating assertions! Is there hope yet?

    Now that he seems to apologize for this red-herring argument (that he’s used a few times) will he give a real answer to the problem that has been brought up by a few people here of how Muslims obey the violence in the Hadiths, which fly in the face of his claim that Islam is peaceful?

    Will he present some sort of solid evidence why a Muslim should reject the Hadiths?

    Will he give examples of how he is trying to convince Muslims that they shouldn’t follow the Hadiths, rather than just trying to convince opponents of Islamic supremacisism that true Islam(tm) is peaceful and radical Islam is on the decline?

    I’m not holding my breath.

    • Foolster41 says

      Feb 3, 2016 at 9:12 pm

      admiring=admitting

    • worldcitizen1919 says

      Feb 3, 2016 at 11:25 pm

      Why should a Muslim reject the Hadiths?

      The Covenant God made with the Muslims was based solely on the Quran not Hadiths.

      Muhammad only left the Quran for Muslims nothing else.

      Only the Quran is the Word of God. If a Muslim wants to accept Hadiths there’s nothing anyone can do.

      Recently a Muslim challenged me to prove the Baha’i Faith was true. And I showed him from the Quran the prophecies. But he said no, no, only Hadiths.

      Hadiths are used to twist the meanings of the Quran? They run to Hadiths where you can find any Hadith to support any argument you want to win. He won’t discuss with me unless I use Hadiths and I told him they are not approved and haven’t heard from him for a while.

      Some other Muslims I met only accept Hadiths when they agree with the Quran which is better.

      The only thing that is going to make Islam clean up its Hadiths is maybe secularism and or these Hadiths cause a world war. Muslims have set up a counterfeit religion based on Hadiths because Hadiths enable them to oppress other religions such as Jews, Christians and Baha’is and allows them to be as corrupt as they like.

      Baha’is believe in the Quran only and we have no violence at all.

      Sorry if this is not what you wanted.

      As I said we don’t support Hadiths or shariah law but accept Muhamnad & the Quran were from God.

      • Foolster41 says

        Feb 4, 2016 at 12:39 am

        Nope, that’s not really a satisfactory answer. Again, you say that true Muslims should reject the Hadiths and only the hadiths have violence, but there’s a number of problems with this that you have not, and cannot answer:

        1.It’s flat out false. There are plenty of violence in the Qouran anyway that can be easy used to justify Islamic supremacist (For example Sura 9), and so removing the Hadith doesn’t actually make Islam that much less violent. (See here: http://thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx)

        2.Much of Islamic teaching is in the Hadiths, such as the 5 pillars, without it, Islam is a rudderless mess.

        3.less than 1% of all Muslims are Qouran only. Even most peaceful westernized Muslims do not reject the Hadith.
        That is to say you believe that only 1% of all muslims are “true” muslims in your view, so any sort of path towards making Islam peaceful by guiding people to a Qoiuranist view of Islam will be extremely difficult. In the meantime people are actually being tortured and killed by Islamics. People here are pointing out that Islam, as it is practiced by a vast number of all Muslims is indeed violent, or at least allows for this violence if they actually practiced their religion fully. It’s better to point out that problem than focusing on the way we wish or think Islam should be. Thus the answer to the objection of the violence of Islam “but the Hadith are wrong” is not a convincing argument, unless you can convince the muslims doing violence

        4.You provide no evidence besides some anctidotal talks with Muslims to show why Muslims should reject the hadiths except that it makes Islam violent (violent muslim supremiscists who belong to the vast majority of sects of Islam, don’t care anyway)

        5.You didn’t show any meaningful way this view helps reduces violence, how you are in any way engaging Muslims to convince them to reject violence, such as going to Islamist blogs or builtin boards.

        You haven’t heard from the one Muslim because he knew it was pointless to talk to you. He asked for proof according to his own scripture, and you said you reject it. It’s nice that some muslims reject at least parts of the Hadith, but I suspect these are westernized Muslims. They aren’t the problem, but the violent muslims who point to those same Qouran and Hadiths and do violence.

        “The only thing that is going to make Islam clean up its Hadiths is maybe secularism and or these Hadiths cause a world war.” You don’t sound so sure any more that Islam is in decline. A world war doesn’t exactly sound like a decline and we shouldn’t be worried. I get the impression you don’t even fully believe what you are selling.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 4, 2016 at 2:30 am

          We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

          Baha’u’llah says that the Quran is the infallible Word of God and Muhammad is the Prophet of God and both are error free and perfect and I accept this. Neither the Quran nor Muhammad are the cause of violence or harm to a single soul.

          I blame Hadiths and evil Mullas for the violence in Islam.

        • Champ says

          Feb 4, 2016 at 2:48 am

          “worldcitizen” is a lost cause serving an evil cause: Baha’i!

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 4, 2016 at 5:52 am

          Then we agree to disagree but I believe you are good and that you are against terrorism is also good.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 4, 2016 at 5:54 am

          Then we agree to disagree and I believe you are good and being against terrorism is also good.

  78. Foolster41 says

    Feb 3, 2016 at 9:07 pm

    Nope, we’re back to baseless assettions. WorldCitizen is now taking the Messianac prophecies which are understood as applying to Jesus and applying them to this prophet. I notice refrences to Is 7 and 11.

    How did he fulfill these prophecies?

    What years did he reign in Jeruselum (Is 9:7)?
    Can you demonstrate how he is an offspring of David and Jessie (Is 11:1)? Wasn’t he a Persian?
    In what way did he gather the Jews to Isreal (11:12)?

    Please back up your assertions with facts for once.

    • Rev g says

      Feb 3, 2016 at 9:32 pm

      Good luck with that! He will tell you it is proven…..then when you ask for more, he will say proven to him.

  79. Foolster41 says

    Feb 3, 2016 at 9:10 pm

    It sounds like he’s talking about what he WILL do and not as fulfilment. Look, I found another prophecy of Ba’u’llah:

    12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
    13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
    14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

  80. Foolster41 says

    Feb 4, 2016 at 10:08 pm

    “We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

    Baha’u’llah says that the Quran is the infallible Word of God and Muhammad is the Prophet of God and both are error free and perfect and I accept this. Neither the Quran nor Muhammad are the cause of violence or harm to a single soul.

    I blame Hadiths and evil Mullas for the violence in Islam.”

    In other words, no he can’t actually answer any of my points above or present evidence. Despite all the logical problems presented with his worldview he’ll keep on believing it!

    The Hadiths are not a part of true Islam because he believes it to not be so.

    Muslims should therefore reject the Hadiths (even though a vast majority don’t) because he believes they should.

    The Qouran has no violence (even the ones that have brought up) because that’s what he believes. (and he seems to insist sticking his fingers in his ears and going “LA LA LA LA I CAN’T HEAR YOU!” when examples of Mohammad not being a good example or violence from the Qouran are presented.)

    Ignorance is bliss, apparently to WorldCitizen. I really am done now. I’m willing to be convinced if he brought evidence, but apparently WorldCitizen isn’t also willing to do the same.

    • gravenimage says

      Feb 4, 2016 at 11:11 pm

      Foolster41 wrote, quoting “worldcitizen1919″:

      “We’ll just have to agree to disagree”.
      ………………………….

      “worldcitizen1919” said the same thing to me on another thread, Foolster–after I noted he was whitewashing evil.

      He made it sound as though we had differing musical tastes, or couldn’t agree on whether Tex Mex was a world-class cuisine, or something similarly inconsequential.

      • worldcitizen1919 says

        Feb 5, 2016 at 1:05 am

        Id love to discuss further when you take your fingers out of your ears.

        • Champ says

          Feb 5, 2016 at 1:23 am

          “worldcitizen” wrote:

          Id love to discuss further when you take your fingers out of your ears.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “worldcitizen” is the LAST person on earth I would want to discuss anything with. I would rather bang my head against the wall. Yes–he’s THAT obtuse and severly brainwashed.

        • Foolster41 says

          Feb 5, 2016 at 2:40 am

          HAHA! You have the gall to say WE have the fingers in our ears when you refuse to answer clear logical objections to your faith! (No logical basis for rejecting Hadiths except for Hearsay from your religion, Ignorng violence in the Koran, ignoring contradictions of differerent religons and yet accepting them all as true)! You are a fool!

          (And yes, it does take one to know one)

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 5, 2016 at 2:53 am

          If you just read some proper Baha’i Book you will see I’m harmless.

        • Angemon says

          Feb 5, 2016 at 10:35 am

          worldcitizen1919 posted:

          “Id love to discuss further when you take your fingers out of your ears.”

          That’s funny, coming form you.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 5, 2016 at 11:56 am

          Just having a bit of fun. Anytime you want to grill me I’m for it.

  81. Foolster41 says

    Feb 5, 2016 at 12:22 am

    Worldcitizen said: “Baha’is believe, is the Manifestation of God for this age.”

    It’s interesting you use that term to describe Baha’u’llah. I actually for once agree that indeed Baha’u’llah is at least one manifestations of the “Gods of this age” and no doubt many Christians would agree:

    “The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake. 6For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,”a made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God’s glory displayed in the face of Christ.”

    (2 Corinthians 4:4-6). Bahai and Islam both accepts Jesus as a “prophet” but denies the deity that he himself claimed.

    • worldcitizen1919 says

      Feb 5, 2016 at 1:19 am

      “Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.”

      Excerpt From: Bahá’u’lláh. “Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah

      “Whoso alloweth himself to be shut out from Him is indeed a leper, who shall not be remembered in the Kingdom of God, the Mighty, the All-Praised. We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him”

      Excerpt From: Bahá’u’lláh. “Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh.

      • Champ says

        Feb 5, 2016 at 1:30 am

        Baha’i World Faith EXPOSED!

        As the new millennium approaches, the crucial need of the human race is to find a unifying vision of the nature of man and society. For the past century humanity’s response to this impulse has driven a succession of ideological upheavals that have convulsed our world and that appear now to have exhausted themselves. The passion invested in the struggle, despite its disheartening results, testifies to the depth of the need. For, without a common conviction about the course and direction of human history, it is inconceivable that foundations can be laid for a global society to which the mass of humankind can commit themselves.

        Such a vision unfolds in the writings of Baha’u’llah, the nineteenth-century prophetic figure whose growing influence is the most remarkable development of contemporary religious history. Born in Persia, November 12, 1817, Baha’u’llah began at age twenty-seven an undertaking that has gradually captured the imagination and loyalty of several million people from virtually every race, culture, class, and nation on earth. The phenomenon is one that has no reference points in the contemporary world, but is associated rather with climactic changes of direction in the collective past of the human race. For Baha’u’llah claimed to be no less than the Messenger of God to the age of human maturity, the Bearer of a Divine Revelation that fulfills the promises made in earlier religions, and that will generate the spiritual nerves and sinews for the unification of the peoples of the world.

        The Baha’i World Faith claims to be a religion of unique relevance to the modern world. Its emphasis upon rationalism, human rights, international peace, education, equality of the sexes, and the eradication of all forms of prejudice gives the Baha’i Faith a very broad base of appeal. The Baha’i cry for one world religion appeals to the ecumenical spirit of the age, especially in light of the continuing insistence that Baha’i are in perfect harmony with the Christian Faith.

        Are Baha’i Christian?

        The Biblical answer is No! But Baha’i will answer, ‘yes.’ They claim the foundations of Christianity and the religion of Baha’u’llah are one. The foundations of all the divine Prophets and Holy Books are one. The difference among them is one of terminology only.

        The Baha’i Faith is essentially rationalistic. “We must not accept traditional dogmas that are contrary to reason, nor pretend to believe doctrines which we cannot understand. To do so is superstitious and not true religion.”

        Because of this inclination to reject any doctrine that does not seem reasonable to them, Baha’i interpret allegorically, rather than literally, the biblical doctrines of the Holy Trinity, the bodily Resurrection of Christ, the existence of angels and evil spirits, and the doctrines of heaven and hell. Yet, despite this insistence that everything must be understood in order to be believed, they hold that God Himself is impersonal and unknowable. He can only be perceived indirectly through the reflection of his Manifestations – Jesus being ONLY ONE of these NINE, in no manner superior to the other eight.

        Baha’i deny that man fell through Adam from his original spiritual and moral state. They affirm that no one is “essentially” bad or evil, but merely imperfect. Sins are characteristics of the lower, baser plane of nature, and education brings deliverance from them. Baha’u’llah taught that men ought not to confess their sins to one another, for this would lead to humiliation and abasement, which he taught, are contrary to God’s will.

        Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective. [James 5:16]

        More here: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Bahai/bahai_exposed.htm

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Feb 5, 2016 at 2:12 am

          Hace we even read a Baha’i book? Have we studied the Bahai Faith to determine the truth for ourselves?

          .

        • Rev g says

          Feb 5, 2016 at 2:25 am

          You have done a good job of exposing us to the utter hypocrisy that is bahai.

        • Champ says

          Feb 5, 2016 at 2:28 am

          Rev g wrote:

          “You have done a good job of exposing us to the utter hypocrisy that is bahai.”

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          My thoughts *exactly* …

  82. Foolster41 says

    Feb 5, 2016 at 3:01 am

    “If you just read some proper Baha’i Book you will see I’m harmless.”
    Harmless is not equal to not deluded.

    No one here is saying your name harmless, at least you’re obviously not violent. But you do provide cover for those who would do violence by saying we shouldn’t worry about them, and that Christians should submit to Islam by claiming Mohammad as a prophet which, since Mohammad says that Christ wasn’t God would be in fact denying our own religion.

    As I said, you are a fool. A harmless fool, but a fool all the same.

    • Rev g says

      Feb 5, 2016 at 8:50 am

      Not harmless at all. Deceptively malevolent. Preying on those not well-versed on matters of faith. A snake oil salesman dealing in matters of the soul.

  83. Foolster41 says

    Feb 5, 2016 at 3:04 am

    “No one here is saying your name harmless”
    I mean “No one here is saying you’re not harmless”

  84. Foolster41 says

    Feb 6, 2016 at 1:36 am

    Denis said: “These comments are getting very boring. We have both world citizen and Fundie Christians quoting and defending their religious beliefs. I thought that the main purpose of Jihad Watch was to center on our common problem which s radical Islam. I am bored by these religious comments. I don’t believe in either side and I am not going to waste my time debating such silly issues. Whether Mohammad is “god’s” messenger or not because a book says so, or whether Jesus brought salvation or not because a book says so is not important to me. How do you live your life IS important and how do we act to confront radical Islam is very important.”

    Chrisitans here, myself included as far I can see are only talking about their own scriptures so far in countering some claims by Muslim apologists such as Worldcitizen. They claim (as per the article) that Christians should accept Mohammad as a prophet, and as part of the argument that Islam is not violent (as you said, the reason for this site). Christians are countering that claim because Mohammad was NOT a good example.

    DEFENDING is indeed the operative word here. Christians aren’t forcefully proselytizing but countering lies about their own religion that are tied to a lie that flies in the face of the reality (the lie that Islam is a religion of peace).

    I’d hope that even atheists who don’t accept Jesus as God would agree that Mohammad was indeed a bad example to follow and Jesus was at the least a better one, and that there’s no comparison between the two (I know atheists here have said the same).

    So I disagree that this is an equatable argument between prototyping “fundie” Christians and Muslims, and I think the claim of equivalence is somewhat insulting and misplaced.

    Also, Whether Mohammad is “god’s” messenger is INDEED important. That’s the whole point if this site, that Islam is not only false but a poisonous belief like no other religion. You don’t have to be a Christian to see that is true.

    • Champ says

      Feb 6, 2016 at 1:52 am

      Excellent comment, Foolster41. I wholly agree.

    • worldcitizen1919 says

      Feb 6, 2016 at 2:34 am

      I never said Christians must accept Islam. I’m happy for Christians to be Christians that’s your human right and freedom and not for me to dictate.

      We however believe as part of our beliefs that Muhammad is a Prophet of God and the Quran is the Word of God so attacking either of them is also attacking the Bahai Faith so we have the right of self defense.

      We don’t believe Muhammad or the Quran was evil and defend that.

      If people want to say Mullas and Hadiths are the real cause of terrorism then we support that.

      But you keep your Christian beliefs. Please and not say I told you otherwise because I didn’t. Im very happy you keep your Christian beliefs as I believe in Jesus also..

    • Dennis says

      Feb 6, 2016 at 3:03 am

      This s still a boring conversation. Lets get on with the real work: how to face and confront the Muslims who are eroding away our societies. Again, I don’t believe in Islam, or Bahai or Christianity. Most of my atheist friends are also worried about what is occurring. Can’t we be a peope united against these threats! Must we waste our time on religioys doctrines and beliefs!

      • worldcitizen1919 says

        Feb 6, 2016 at 3:30 am

        we can’t beat terrorism with guns and bombs only another better ideology can beat it.

      • Champ says

        Feb 6, 2016 at 3:51 am

        Bored? Well, sorry if you’re feeling left out, Dennis, so here’s something for you to read …

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        Question: “What is atheism?”

        Answer: Atheism is the view that God does not exist. Atheism is not a new development. Psalm 14:1, written by David around 1000 B.C., mentions atheism: “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God.’” Recent statistics show an increasing number of people claiming to be atheists, up to 10 percent of people worldwide. So why are more and more people becoming atheists? Is atheism truly the logical position atheists claim it to be?

        Why does atheism even exist? Why doesn’t God simply reveal Himself to people, proving that He exists? Surely if God would just appear, the thinking goes, everyone would believe in Him! The problem here is that it is not God’s desire to just convince people that He exists. It is God’s desire for people to believe in Him by faith (2 Peter 3:9) and accept by faith His gift of salvation (John 3:16). God clearly demonstrated His existence many times in the Old Testament (Genesis 6-9; Exodus 14:21-22; 1 Kings 18:19-31). Did the people believe that God exists? Yes. Did they turn from their evil ways and obey God? No. If a person is not willing to accept God’s existence by faith, then he/she is definitely not ready to accept Jesus Christ as Savior by faith (Ephesians 2:8-9). God’s desire is for people to become Christians, not just theists (those who believe God exists).

        The Bible tells us that God’s existence must be accepted by faith. Hebrews 11:6 declares, “And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him.” The Bible reminds us that we are blessed when we believe and trust in God by faith: “Then Jesus told him, ‘Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed’” (John 20:29).

        The existence of God must be accepted by faith, but this does not mean belief in God is illogical. There are many good arguments for the existence of God. The Bible teaches that God’s existence is clearly seen in the universe (Psalm 19:1-4), in nature (Romans 1:18-22), and in our own hearts (Ecclesiastes 3:11). With all that said, the existence of God cannot be proven; it must be accepted by faith.

        At the same time, it takes just as much faith to believe in atheism. To make the absolute statement “God does not exist” is to make a claim of knowing absolutely everything there is to know about everything and of having been everywhere in the universe and having witnessed everything there is to be seen. Of course, no atheist would make these claims. However, that is essentially what they are claiming when they state that God absolutely does not exist. Atheists cannot prove that God does not, for example, live in the center of the sun, or beneath the clouds of Jupiter, or in some distant nebula. Since those places are beyond our capacity to observe, it cannot be proven that God does not exist. It takes just as much faith to be an atheist as it does to be a theist.

        Atheism cannot be proven, and God’s existence must be accepted by faith. Obviously, Christians believe strongly that God exists, and admit that God’s existence is a matter of faith. At the same time, we reject the idea that belief in God is illogical. We believe that God’s existence can be clearly seen, keenly sensed, and proven to be philosophically and scientifically necessary. “The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world” (Psalm 19:1-4).

        Here: http://www.gotquestions.org/atheism.html

      • Foolster41 says

        Feb 6, 2016 at 4:41 am

        Denis: Well, that’s the topic of this article (whether or not Christians should accept Mohammad), and I’ve already pointed out WHY people are talking about this topic This topic isn’t some sort of divisive argument meant to separate atheist counter-jihadists and Christian Jihadists (as you seem to make it sound like it is), it is simply the topic of the article, whether or not Christians could accept Mohammad as a prophet logically, and the moral differences (from the POV of a Christian or Atheist) between Christianity and Islam).

        So maybe if the article/comments bore you, you should try another article? There’s plenty of articles here, and they address the topic you mention.

        Telling people to shut up about the topic (and yes that is what you’re doing by loudly saying your bored over and over) is not helpful at all.

        • Champ says

          Feb 6, 2016 at 2:03 pm

          Dennis, Foolster41 is *absolutely* correct. This thread is entitled:

          “Huffington Post: Christians should accept Muhammad as a prophet”

          Strange that you would chose this thread to whine about how bored you are with the discussion.

  85. Paula Barr says

    Feb 6, 2016 at 6:30 pm

    -Twisted!!!

    Craig Considine wrote the article “Why Muslim cant view Jesus as the Son of God” apparently he didn’t understand or realize that Mohamad and their for the Muslim people do NOT recognize Jesus AS THE SON OF GOD!!!

    The comparisons that are made by the author are ludicrous, absurd, preposterous and downright stupid.

    It’s quite apparent that you are NOT a man of God and for that reason alone I feel very, very sorry for you.

    I will pray for you and all the other lost, deceived & hatful people who follow Satin instead of God.

  86. mortimer says

    Mar 19, 2016 at 10:34 pm

    Craig Considine’s personal religion sounds not unlike New-Age-ism…the touchy-feely-go-with-the-flow religion of ‘truthiness’. For the New-Agers, truth is not something they look up in a book…truth is something they look up in their GUT!

    Forget the Periodic Table of the Elements, everybody! Considine is the new prophet on a par with Mohammed. Considine ‘knows’ what’s right in the New Testament and Koran, because he looks it up in his GUT!

    How ‘prophetic’ can you get? Only Considine knows for sure.

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