• Why Jihad Watch?
  • About Robert Spencer and Staff Writers
  • FAQ
  • Books
  • Muhammad
  • Islam 101
  • Privacy

Jihad Watch

Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Melkite Greek Catholic Patriarch: “No one defends Islam like Arab Christians”

Jan 25, 2016 5:30 pm By Robert Spencer

“We, the Arab Christians, always defend Islam and our Muslim brothers – no one defends Islam like the Arab Christians do.” And Lord knows they need defending: our Muslim brothers seized the Melkite Greek Catholic Church of Our Lady of the Annunciation, removed all the icons and crosses and every trace of Christianity, and made it into their headquarters. Certainly Islam needs a terrific defense after that, and after our Muslim brothers terrorized Melkite Greek Catholics all over Syria, destroyed their churches, and drove them from their homes.

It’s a good thing that our Muslim brothers have a personage as illustrious as Gregory III Laham, Patriarch of Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem and All the East, to defend them after all that, because otherwise someone might get the crazy idea that Islam teaches something that might have led our Muslim brothers to behave in this odd way toward their biggest defenders, Melkite Greek Catholics. If any Melkite Greek Catholics get out of line and start telling the truth about Islam’s doctrines of warfare and subjugation of Infidels, including their good friends the Melkite Greek Catholics, our Muslim brothers can rest assured that they have the Patriarch Gregory III Laham and his faithful bishops in their corner, ready to silence all such effrontery, which everyone knows is a continuing danger to the Church.

It’s marvelous, it’s magical, it’s ecumenical. The only problem is that Gregory III Laham’s people are being slaughtered by our Muslim brothers, and instead of defending his people, and calling attention to why they are being slaughtered, the Patriarch of Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem and All the East is sticking up for the belief system that incited their slaughterers. It’s barbaric, it’s a betrayal, it’s a travesty. Melkite Greek Catholics and all the victims and the present and future and potential victims of Islamic jihad deserve better than these clerics who do nothing but betray them into the hands of those who hate them.

Does the Patriarch think his shameless groveling will keep our Muslim brothers from slitting his throat (in accord with Qur’an 47:4) if they have the inclination and get the opportunity? It will not. Nor will it save any of his people. All it does is impede efforts to spread understanding about why what is happening to Middle Eastern Christians is happening, and thus also impedes attempts to formulate effective means to counter the persecution and genocide. Siding with killers against their victims isn’t Christian charity by any rational standard, however much Gregory III and his minions try to dress up their betrayal in clerical robes.

Gregory III Laham

“Greek Catholic Patriarch: No One Defends Islam Like Arab Christians,” by Deborah Danan, Breitbart, January 21, 2016 (thanks to Peter):

TEL AVIV – The head of the Melkite Greek Catholic Church declared that Christians love Muslims and no one defends Islam more than Arab Christians, MEMRI reported.

In an interview earlier this month with the official Egyptian daily Al-Ahram, Gregory III Laham, the spiritual leader of the Melkite Greek Catholic Church, expressed concern over the fate of Christian communities in the Arab world.

Gregory III, who is also the Patriarch of Antioch and All the East, and Alexandria and Jerusalem, is a strong advocate of Christian-Muslim dialogue, but said that these days Christians lack faith that Muslims are willing to accept them. Asserting that there is a “great wound” in Muslim-Christian relations, the Patriarch called upon leaders of both faiths to build mutual trust.

“These days I am in the midst of writing a letter to the presidents, kings, and emirs of the Arab and Muslim [countries] in order to say to them, in a letter from an Arab [Church] patriarch to the Muslims, that we love you,” the Patriarch said.

The Patriarch lamented the fact that Muslim tolerance of the other has not become more widespread in the Arab street and in schools and curricula. He also berated Muslims who receive aid from the Red Cross and then scratch out the cross because it offends them.

He added, “And when they are asked from whom they received [the aid], they say: We got it from some kuffar [infidel].”

On the other hand, he said, Christians in the Middle East have always stood up for Muslims. “We, the Arab Christians, always defend Islam and our Muslim brothers – no one defends Islam like the Arab Christians do.”

The Patriarch praised Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi for being a “great president” and said he met with Sisi to ask him to lead the Arab world, a mantle befitting the leader of the Middle East’s biggest Muslim country with the highest number of Christians.

Finally, Gregory III called upon the Arab League to present a map for peace in Syria and a plan for defeating the Islamic State, and said the Arab world must not wait for Europe and the U.S. to present a solution.

Not a bad idea, since if they wait for Europe and the U.S. to come up with a plan to defeat the Islamic State, they’ll be waiting for a long, long time.

The Patriarch was one of the dignitaries who walked out on a speech by Senator Ted Cruz (R-TX) in which the latter asserted that Christians have no better ally than Israel, resulting in the senator being booed off stage.

Disgraceful.

Share this:

  • Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window)
  • Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window)
  • Click to share on WhatsApp (Opens in new window)
  • Click to print (Opens in new window)
  • Click to email this to a friend (Opens in new window)
  • More
  • Click to share on Skype (Opens in new window)
  • Click to share on LinkedIn (Opens in new window)
  • Click to share on Telegram (Opens in new window)
  • Click to share on Tumblr (Opens in new window)
  • Click to share on Pocket (Opens in new window)
  • Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window)

Follow me on Facebook

Filed Under: Catholic Church, dialogue, Featured Tagged With: Gregory III Laham, Melkite Greek Catholic Church


Learn more about RevenueStripe...

Comments

  1. Infidela says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 5:45 pm

    A person who is not a muslim but who sympathises with and defends Islam should be called an ISLAMIC FELLOW TRAVELLER, just as there were communist sympathisers who were called fellow travellers while not being card-carrying members of the communist party.

  2. Mo says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 5:46 pm

    “The only problem is that Gregory III Laham’s people are being slaughtered by our Muslim brothers, and instead of defending his people, and calling attention to why they are being slaughtered, the Patriarch of Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem and All the East is sticking up for the belief system that incited their slaughterers.

    Exactly. That’s why this story was thoroughly confusing to me!

    • gravenimage says

      Jan 25, 2016 at 7:16 pm

      dhimmis have been taught for centuries that they must toady to Muslims and flatter them if they want to survive.

      Unfortunately, this just leads Muslims to further despise their victims.

      And it seldom works, in any case–Muslims have been driving out, forcibly converting, and slaughtering Christians wherever they have power.

      Christianity–including the Melkite Catholic Church–is now actually extinct in many Muslims lands, and well on its way in the rest.

      The largest surviving Christian population in the Middle East was in Syria–and we know what is happening there now.

    • ECAW says

      Jan 26, 2016 at 2:50 am

      As graven says, dhimmis have been required to toady to (and defend) Muslims for centuries, rather like battered wives.

      Mark Durie goes into this aspect of dhimmitude in some detail in his book “The Third Choice”:

      http://www.amazon.co.uk/Third-Choice-Islam-Dhimmitude-Freedom/dp/0980722306/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1453794095&sr=1-1&keywords=mark+durie

      • gravenimage says

        Jan 26, 2016 at 12:48 pm

        Yes–an important book, ECAW.

  3. Adrian says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 5:51 pm

    it’s called the voice of FEAR !

  4. nancy says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 5:57 pm

    this is a lie. I lived in Greece but am an American born citizens. My three sons are half Greek and we have many in Greece that are of our family. NO believing GREEK defends islam. Fact is Greece does not like TURKEY and never has. In the 1970s the muslim Turks invaded Greek Cyprus murdering many and still to this very day sit upon the land in possession of our goods. Islam is a DEATH CULT proven.

    • gravenimage says

      Jan 25, 2016 at 7:23 pm

      This is *not* a lie, Nancy. You will understand it if learn your full history.

      In the 19th century Greece bravely fought for her freedom from the Ottoman Empire. But before this she was under the Muslim heel for centuries–as is the case with most of her coreligionists to this day.

      Islam institutionalizes dhimmitude–where Christians live as threatened second-class citizens in Muslim lands and *must* flatter their oppressors if they hope to survive.

      Robert Spencer’s grandfather fled Turkey for the West to escape this violence and oppression.

    • Oliver says

      Jan 26, 2016 at 3:26 pm

      Nancy, and Graven,
      I am confused- what is or is not a lie?

      I know that Greece and Turkey despise each other. (I used to have Greek neighbors- the mention of Turkey would turn them into raging people).

      As to the Greek Church person-I made my comments on Monday; around somewhere here.

      • Oliver says

        Jan 26, 2016 at 3:27 pm

        Actually, just a comment or two below here.

        Oliver

      • gravenimage says

        Jan 26, 2016 at 4:23 pm

        Oliver, Nancy is saying that this article is a lie–that no Melkite Greek Catholic Patriarch would ever defend Islam–because Greeks, for good reason, hate Turks.

        But this article is *not* a fabrication–Greeks were forced to under Shari’ah law in Greece for centuries before they fought for their freedom, and they had to practice just this kind of dhimmitude at the time.

        Now Greece herself is free–and has been for almost two centuries.

        But the Melkite Greek Catholic Church also exists in places other than Greece itself–Turkey and the Levant, most notably. This Patriarch is based in Lebanon. And Christians there still live as dhimmis in Muslim-majority countries.

        Nancy is assuming that Christian behavior in free Greece is just the same in Muslim countries where Christians are oppressed–but she is mistaken in this.

        I hope this makes things clearer.

        • Oliver says

          Jan 27, 2016 at 6:55 pm

          GI-Yes; thank you for the clarification.

          Also, i think it would help if someone is responding to someone-who responded to a post, they mention exactly to whom they are responding.

          Someone else ( perhaps more then one person) has also suggested this.

          And, thanks again for clarifying what the person was talking about.

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 28, 2016 at 11:05 pm

          Glad this was helpful, Oliver.

  5. Oliver says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 5:58 pm

    Sounds to me like the pope of the RCC in Rome. QAnd the Catholic Cardinal or whatever in Boston

  6. Voytek Gagalka says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 6:02 pm

    Stockholm Syndrome: Defending your own destroyers. Total dhimmitude, submission to Allahists. So let it be! Let them be destroyed if that is their orgiastic death-wish.

    • Infidela says

      Jan 25, 2016 at 7:47 pm

      It is not their orgiastic death-wish, but they do suffer from Stockholm Syndrome.

  7. Westman says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 6:05 pm

    “Does the Patriarch think his shameless groveling will keep our Muslim brothers from slitting his throat (in accord with Qur’an 47:4) if they have the inclination and get the opportunity? It will not. Nor will it save any of his people. ”

    Why does the Patriarch recognise that, given the opportunity, Orthodox Islam would hang him on the cross of his own church?

    The attemped appeasement never seems to stop until the blade falls. Remember the New Year Cologne gropefest right in front of a major train station that is peppered with surveillance cameras? No videos? The government ordered them to be erased! That should lead to arrests and an informed public.

    Somehow the West refuses to read and learn the ideology of Islam, substituting some kind of Kumbaya “gut feeling” of kindness toward a theology that longs to make sure their gut feels something real. Islam is the exception to the Golden Rule; to it appeasement is the sure sign of weakness.

    • Westman says

      Jan 25, 2016 at 6:07 pm

      Why does -> Why doesn’t

  8. wildjew says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 6:24 pm

    Brigitte Gabriel, in her book “Because They Hate,” wrote: “Arab hatred for Jews starts almost at birth. It’s as if, as the Arabic expression goes, “They are fed hatred by their mother’s milk.” What they grow up watching on TV, reading in newspapers, and listening to on the radio reinforces what they hear at home, and vice versa. A cycle of hate and spiteful information and misinformation influences their views and opinions….”

    • Atheist7 says

      Jan 25, 2016 at 7:03 pm

      It is all in the early childhood training. If you took a Jewish baby and an Arab baby and switched them at birth, the Jewish baby would be raised by Jew-hating parents and would grow up to blame all of the worlds problems on Israel. The Arab baby, raised by Jewish parents would have a very dim view of the Muslim Brotherhood and Iran. That is why it is very important to provide our children with a historically accurate account of the spread of Islam. For example, one could show the exploits of Tamerlane the magnificent and the merciful.
      Yes. Appeasement is a sign of weakness. Recall the Sudetenland and Neville Chamberlain 1938.

    • gravenimage says

      Jan 25, 2016 at 7:30 pm

      And Brigitte Gabriel, a Lebanese Christian, learned this hate herself as a child. It was only when she took her injured mother to Israel for medical treatment after she was injured by Muslim bombing that she began to question this reflexive hatred.

      She also realized the irony of going to those who are supposed to be implacable enemies for care–if the Jews were really so bad, why would Arabs go to them for medical treatment? Of course, she was a ten-year-old girl when she realized what cognitive dissonance this was–but many adult Arabs are just the same.

      She was intelligent, thoughtful, and brave enough to reassess what she had been indoctrinated with–but that is not the case with many.

      • Peggy says

        Jan 26, 2016 at 11:02 pm

        Yes, and her fellow Lebanese were looking to kill them while Israelis even transported them by ambulance to their hospital without charge. They even “employed” her as an interpretor once they discovered that she was only eating her mother’s lefovers so that she can eat properly.
        They treated her as best as they could and they are supposed to be the enemy.
        More paople should know stories like this. Sadly not enough people do.

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 26, 2016 at 11:49 pm

          Very true, Peggy.

  9. Wellington says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 6:26 pm

    “No one defends Islam like Arab Christians.”

    This statement just further confirms that Arabs are the most dysfunctional and pathetic major people on the planet. Anyone doubting me, provide me an alternative.. Even some Arabs get this, more or less. For instance, Fouad Ajami who wrote “The Dream Palace of the Arabs.”

    The Arabs are a burden to all mankind, including themselves, and thus tending to prove once again the great lie of multiculturalism which asserts that all cultures are essentially equal and deserving of equal respect. No they aren’t. Some cultures are superior to others. As another example, someone like Adolf Hitler would have never have attained supreme power in Britain or America. As William Shirer, author of “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich,” noted, such a man like Hitler in America or Britain would have just been laughed at and dismissed by most everyone.

    Yes, some cultures ARE superior to others. Historically speaking, as yet another example, and before the British ruling class lost their collective minds as of late, who would you have chosen to run the world for a century if you had to choose such———–the British, the Germans or the Russians? I say it’s a no-brainer and I have no British blood in me and am of German stock.

    • epistemology says

      Jan 25, 2016 at 7:01 pm

      Oh no, what kind of loony is that? He’s totally wacky, his people are being murdered and he says he defends Islam. It’s his fucking duty to protect his people. I can’t fathom it. I will never, ever understand loonies like that. We all agree here that Islam is intrinsically evil, that the Koran is the only religious book that justifies crimes and terrorism against infidels. Islam doesn’t belong in our societies. Muzzies are barbarians and no civilisation can cope with them. They’re incompatible all over the planet.

      Hope you’re right with your “skeptical optimism” dear Wellington. When I look at Europe especially Germany, I’m so scared.

      Take good care my friend, I’m very worried

      • gravenimage says

        Jan 25, 2016 at 7:42 pm

        Alas, I do understand this. I grew up in a violent and abusive home, and regularly engaged in a form of dhimmi behavior, flattering and defending the very people who were harming me.

        I lied by omission all them time. I regularly openly lied for my family to social workers, teachers, and the police. At the age of thirteen, I perjured myself in a court of law. I had the decency to feel terrible about it, but I did it anyway.

        But at fifteen, I realized I had to leave–both to save my life from the escalating violence and to salvage my moral sense. I cannot imagine what psychic violence it would have done to me to try to live that way as an adult.

        I never regret having left when I did, though things were very hard and I lived on the street for some time.

        • Infidela says

          Jan 25, 2016 at 7:50 pm

          Their should be government sponsored boarding schools for children who are forced to leave abusive families.

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 25, 2016 at 9:57 pm

          Infidela, I’m sure I could have gotten some help. But that would have meant exposing what my family was doing.

          I was just independent enough to leave at fifteen, but I couldn’t handle going to the authorities.

          It takes a while to leave dhimmitude behind.

        • Wellington says

          Jan 25, 2016 at 11:01 pm

          Dear gravenimage,

          From the bottom of my heart I say to you that whatever abuse and travails you went through in previous years, in younger years, they did nothing to thwart your many attributes, indeed these negatives may have even enriched your inherent attributes, though at great cost. The final “product,” what you are today, is one I esteem very much. I wanted you to know this. As ever I remain,

          An admirer of yours,

          Wellington

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 25, 2016 at 11:52 pm

          *Thank you* so much, Wellington. This means a great deal to me–more than you can know.

          Though terribly difficult at the time, I do believe this has made me quicker to recognize other greater evils, such as Islam–as well as to empathize with the victims.

          I can never be indifferent to such wrong.

        • Pong says

          Jan 26, 2016 at 2:46 am

          You haven’t salvage yor moral sense, if you still think that feeling bad about what you did, excuses it.

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 26, 2016 at 1:05 pm

          Pong, I never excused what I did as a child to survive, and I wish I had been able to pull away earlier than I did.

          The fact is, though, that many such children never pull away at all, and either go on to be life-long victims, or–worse–become abusers themselves.

          And there were many things I *never* did, though I was pressured to and suffered for not complying–burglary, stealing cars, selling drugs, engaging in violence myself.

          Perhaps you would not have been adversely affected at all growing up in a violent and abusive home. You can always tell yourself that, in any case.

        • Rezali Mehil says

          Jan 26, 2016 at 5:47 pm

          Salaam Graven,

          Thank you for “opening up”.. I did not realise that you went through a few mishaps as a youngester…but the suspicions were there in my mind about you.

          It has explained a lot about you …and that one Aiesha/Muhammad SAW drawing in particular … it is what happened to you isn’t it ….as a youngester …you were done over weren’t you …probably by the “local father”. So that is what this is all about isn’t it… you cannot forget your own experience so …you painted it to be indelible and on the internet for millennia.

          This is when your harami tormentor damaged your insides didn’t he…damaged you such that you could not have children…and here is me blaming poor Dennis and the makers of Jaffa Orange juice (my apologies to both of them).

          My guess is that you were a bit of a rebel in the West Midlands…and your parents sent you to Sunday school to learn about manners and Jesus PBUH … and that was you met the local father …who in all likely hood looked like this man Gregory III Laham.. with glasses and wagging finger and all.

          He exercised his education …and taught you to love …his style.and it hurt …didn’t it Graven.

          You complained to your parents …but they were so disgusted with your fabricated lies around this “saint” …that 1st you got a belt whipping and then when you carried on the complaints… *they* called in the police…one thing led to another and then court.

          The more you protested your innocence …the worse it got …so you lied in court … you said he was a saint…and you were a naughty little girl (that made him smile didn’t it) …and the court said that the best place for you was sunday school under his charge … and that was when you ran away isn’t it.

          Well as the pussy Wellington has said …”that was brave of you” despite knowing that it would really bring shame your family… you did it anyway!!!!

          The father would have come by the following Sunday …to take “charge” of his charge only to hear that you had shamelessly run away. …but see it probably was likely that he insisted on healing your family by taking charge of your younger sister….that’s right Graven… your cowardice probably led to the use of your younger sister by that “saint” …how could you let it happen Graven.

          Anyhow please apologise to Dennis for me … you got a good un there …to look after damaged goods….

          Take care …more Later …

          Rezali

        • Peggy says

          Jan 26, 2016 at 11:09 pm

          What a horrible situation for a child to endure. Because of that you can understand why Christians there don’t speak illof Muslims. Imagine if you lived in a country where you didn’t have an option to leave at any age.
          Yes it’s easy for so many to sit back behind their computers and judge but like I said before. If they had t walk in their shoes for a little while they would not be so judgemental. I wish that non Muslims had freedom to tell the truth. We have only a glimpse into their world here because we are being silenced by our laws to some degree but I can only imagine how much worse it is over there. If we can’t say what we think of Islam freely here what hope do they have over there?

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 27, 2016 at 12:11 am

          The hyena-like Rezali Mehil wrote:

          Salaam Graven,

          Thank you for “opening up”.. I did not realise that you went through a few mishaps as a youngester…but the suspicions were there in my mind about you.

          It has explained a lot about you …and that one Aiesha/Muhammad SAW drawing in particular … it is what happened to you isn’t it ….as a youngester …you were done over weren’t you …probably by the “local father”.
          ……………………………….

          Dream on, evil Mohammedan. The church was a sanctuary for me, along with the local library.

          What is an aberration in the West–something primarily seen in the underclass–is normative in Islam.

          More:

          So that is what this is all about isn’t it… you cannot forget your own experience so …you painted it to be indelible and on the internet for millennia.
          ……………………………….

          No–it is Islam that has made the abuse of children indelible across millenia–children are suffering all over the Muslim world due to the vile actions of the pedophile “Prophet”. My own experiences just allowed me to *recognize it*.

          More:

          This is when your harami tormentor damaged your insides didn’t he…damaged you such that you could not have children…and here is me blaming poor Dennis and the makers of Jaffa Orange juice (my apologies to both of them).
          ……………………………….

          Has it ever occurred to pious Muslimahs like Rezali Mehil that the “Mother of Believers” Aisha was *herself* childless–and that this was likely because *she was repeatedly raped from the tender age of nine*?

          More:

          My guess is that you were a bit of a rebel in the West Midlands…and your parents sent you to Sunday school to learn about manners and Jesus PBUH … and that was you met the local father …who in all likely hood looked like this man Gregory III Laham.. with glasses and wagging finger and all.
          ……………………………….

          Rezali Mehil is engaging in more outrageous fantasies about me. While my mother is English, I myself am American. And no–I was, in fact, the “white sheep” of my family.

          More:

          He exercised his education …and taught you to love …his style.and it hurt …didn’t it Graven.

          You complained to your parents …but they were so disgusted with your fabricated lies around this “saint” …that 1st you got a belt whipping and then when you carried on the complaints… *they* called in the police…one thing led to another and then court.

          The more you protested your innocence …the worse it got …so you lied in court … you said he was a saint…and you were a naughty little girl (that made him smile didn’t it) …and the court said that the best place for you was sunday school under his charge … and that was when you ran away isn’t it.
          ……………………………….

          Good God–what a vicious b*tch this pious Muslimah is.

          More:

          Well as the pussy Wellington has said …”that was brave of you” despite knowing that it would really bring shame your family… you did it anyway!!!!
          ……………………………….

          This is how Muslims think–that if one dares defy their family–no matter how criminal or abusive they may be–that you are “bringing shame” on them. This is why so many Muslim girls submit to child and forced marriages.

          More:

          The father would have come by the following Sunday …to take “charge” of his charge only to hear that you had shamelessly run away. …but see it probably was likely that he insisted on healing your family by taking charge of your younger sister….that’s right Graven… your cowardice probably led to the use of your younger sister by that “saint” …how could you let it happen Graven.
          ……………………………….

          I don’t have a younger sister.

          But look at the moral view of this Muslimah–the idea that abuse is the *fault of the child*, rather than of adults. *This* is one of the most despicable aspects of Islam.

          More:

          Anyhow please apologise to Dennis for me … you got a good un there …to look after damaged goods….

          Take care …more Later …
          ……………………………….

          Even more revealing of the Muslim mind-set than usual. *Ugh*. *Very* instructive, though.

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 27, 2016 at 12:13 am

          True, Peggy.

        • Champ ♥ says

          Jan 27, 2016 at 7:17 pm

          Dearest Graven,

          Thank you for sharing something so personal as the enormous hardships that you endured as a child and a young teenage. I had *no* idea. And I consider you a very, dear friend, so my heart goes out to you. So sorry that you went through that.

          Much love,
          Champ

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 27, 2016 at 8:37 pm

          Thank you so much, Champ ♥!

        • Champ says

          Jan 28, 2016 at 2:22 am

          The notoriously revolting “rezali mehil” wrote:

          “The father would have come by the following Sunday …to take “charge” of his charge only to hear that you had shamelessly run away. …but see it probably was likely that he insisted on healing your family by taking charge of your younger sister….that’s right Graven… your cowardice probably led to the use of your younger sister by that “saint” …how could you let it happen Graven.”

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Graven stated that she “grew up in a violent and abusive home, and regularly engaged in a form of dhimmi behavior” …

          “rezali mehil” then took this information and lied by building a false narrative: turning Graven’s above statement into *sexual* abuse. But Graven NEVER stated this.

          Also, “rezali mehil” went the extra mile by concocting a false, sordid scenario between she and a male church leader she fondly refers to as a “saint”. And it’s interesting that “rezali” condemns sexual abuse from this ficticious “saint”, yet sexual abuse A-OK for her real life ‘prophet’ muhammad? Hmm.

          And the only reason Graven mentioned her “violent and abusive home” was to get to her main point: “dhimmi behavior”, and how she can *relate* to this state of being.

          But our resident mohammedan troll “rezali mehil” has reading comprehension problems, along with being a heartless, soulless creature intent on making up stories and causing nothing but pain and misery whenever the slightest opportunity seems to arise. Indeed “Really Mean” is exactly that: Really Mean!

          Yes — it’s very interesting and revealing that in “rezali mehil’s” ficticious fallacy about Graven and this “saint” that “rezali mehil” demonstrates a moment of *disgust* at the “saint” …yet “rezali mehil” gives her pedophile-prophet a pass for the sexual abuse of a 9 year old child, Aisha? Yep, things that make you go, hmm …

          Nope. Just can’t make this stuff up, and “rezali mehil” serves us well, here, as Exhibit A!

        • Oliver says

          Jan 28, 2016 at 2:18 pm

          Infidelia– there are many cases where abuse is reported- and none is or has happened.

          And, other cases, where it does happen, and never reported. As Prof Derkowitz (I hope I have his name right- Harvard Law Professor; once a supporter of Carter- until he saw Carter for the Anti-Semite that he is) wrote- the two most over reported crimes in America are rape and abuse. and the two MOST UNREPORTED CRIMES IN AMERICA ARE RAPE AND ABUSE.

          I know of a person who had a PET MONKEY NAMED HENRY. (Their youngest child was in graduate school, incidentally); were reported to child welfare that they locked their “son, Henry” in cage when they went to work. Like a SWAT team, Child welfare arrived at their home, with about half a dozen policemen. (The people worked in schools — incidentally) . Child welfare would agree to drop charges if they would agree not to abuse their children. (It would have ended their careers-as they were approaching retirement). They refused- and sued. AND WON.

          But many abusers ( real ones) are ignored by these same self guardians.

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 28, 2016 at 11:16 pm

          Oliver, child protective services in the West are *hardly* perfect–don’t get me started–but at least they exist. There is none such in the Muslim world.

          For myself, several times I tried to explain away obvious injuries to concerned adults. Many abused children, sadly, do engage in this kind of Stockholm Syndrome.

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 28, 2016 at 11:37 pm

          Thank you for your kind words, Champ–you are a true friend.

          Actually, I was sexually abused when I was eight, and I have mentioned that here a couple of times. But as I said then, this was my mother’s boyfriend, *not* my parish priest as the repulsive Rezali Mehil pretends.

          And you’re right, Champ–it is interesting the Rezali Mehil would pretend to condemn pedophilia when she has many times described the rape of little nine-year-old Aisha by the foul “Prophet” to be–her words–“ordained by Allah SWT”.

          And it not just what happened to Aisha–she has also defended the widespread rape of little girls in the Muslim world *today*. *Ugh*. She is an evil piece of work, and a true and pious Muslimah.

        • Champ ✿ says

          Jan 29, 2016 at 12:05 am

          Graven, I’m so sorry, and I never knew that you had been sexually abused and at such a tender age …

          Men that commit sexual acts on children are evil and perverse beyond words! …and that includes ‘prophet’ muhammad.

          Regarding “rezali mehil”:

          “And it not just what happened to Aisha–she has also defended the widespread rape of little girls in the Muslim world *today*. *Ugh*. She is an evil piece of work, and a true and pious Muslimah.”

          Indeed!

        • Rezali Mehil says

          Jan 29, 2016 at 6:58 pm

          Salaam Graven….

          I see that only dumb “champ” came to defend you …even that poster boy champion Wellington abandoned his defence of you.

          They know like I knew … I WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG… your motives to draw that picture is that it reminds you of yourself. You are deeply scarred ..and Dennis cannot fill your wounds ..only your ears with saliva.

          You are a half woman …and you know it ….and that is the elephant in your room …it is the one you carry on your back and it goes to sleep with you and you wake up with it ….booo hooo poor you !!!

          You complain about Muhammad SAW ….and yet you are seeking redemption, or closure or an opening to the secrets of Aiesha’s feelings. To somehow know whether all penetrations are the same or whether Aiesh’s really *was* a very much more spiritual union too….sometimes you think that Rezali may be right …no?

          For your union with the Father…who stepped into your life …you cannot forget…but Aiesha does fascinate you does she not Graven?. You cry at night …she is your sister in emotion, you hold her picture and sometimes you laugh and sometimes you cry but you hug her picture.

          Dennis knows to go to the spare room on those days does he not? …and then you go on one of your long showers that you talk so much about …that’s right ,,,an hour long to ease the pain, the stinking headaches and the washing of the skin and the insides of your legs as if you can *somehow* wash out your sins…because deep in there somewhere you enjoyed his touch and his hurt …and you hate yourself for it …and it consumes you and it rages your mind…this love hate relationship.

          You have tried to build an external façade to protect yourself …and certainly fooled that non perceptive loser champ …”I had *no* idea” she says!..

          But Rezali …now she had the perception that something was amiss…and me …yes I ..I..have been helping you to face up to your fears and emotions and turmoil in a most unusual way …but it is healing you isn’t it …finally you have the opening that you have been looking for …bondage to the mother of Islam.

          The more you delve into it and Aeisha …the more it sets you free…so keep coming Graven… step closer and closer to Islam …and you WILL BE FREE.. you will understand Aiesha…and your soul will be liberated.

          Tell all these peoples here that it is the truth ….you will feel better for it …tell them!!!

          More Later

          Rezali

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Jan 30, 2016 at 2:37 am

          I haven’t gotten in the middle of this, ’til now; but like Graven Image, I also experienced childhood sexual abuse, and it’s not a joke! Neither is it anything that should EVER happen to any child; and they sick, pathetic monsters who perpetrate such violations on children deserve the worst Yhwh God will heap on them, when they stand before Him for judgment! As for you, take your sick philosophy and peddle it where it’s “valued”, but here is NOT that place. We, in this nation, learned long since that sexual abuse is very harmful to the children and that they do NOT deserve that voiolation!

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 29, 2016 at 7:42 pm

          Yet more from the appalling Rezali Mehil:

          I see that only dumb “champ” came to defend you …even that poster boy champion Wellington abandoned his defence of you.
          …………………………..

          What rot. This article has long since fallen into the archives–few readers or posters are still returning here.

          I appreciate everything Champ had to say–and Wellington–there is nothing “dumb” about it.

          More:

          They know like I knew … I WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG… your motives to draw that picture is that it reminds you of yourself. You are deeply scarred ..and Dennis cannot fill your wounds ..only your ears with saliva.

          You are a half woman …and you know it ….and that is the elephant in your room …it is the one you carry on your back and it goes to sleep with you and you wake up with it ….booo hooo poor you !!!
          …………………………..

          Typical Muslim reaction to violence and abuse–to *sneer at the victim*. God, I hate Islam.

          As I said, my experiences helped me more easily recognize and condemn evil elsewhere–nothing else. But as shown by all the good people on Jihad Watch, once need not have necessarily have had to personally experience abuse–Islamic or otherwise–to condemn it elsewhere.

          More:

          You complain about Muhammad SAW ….and yet you are seeking redemption, or closure or an opening to the secrets of Aiesha’s feelings. To somehow know whether all penetrations are the same or whether Aiesh’s really *was* a very much more spiritual union too….sometimes you think that Rezali may be right …no?
          …………………………..

          There is nothing “right” about a middle-aged man raping a little school girl.

          That Muslims believe there *is* shows the evil of Islam.

          Moreover, Muslim men regularly victimize little girls on the model of the “Prophet”–would Rezali Mehil have us believe that *all* of this Muslim pedophilia represents a “spiritual union”?

          Here’s one such horrifying “spiritual union”:

          “Afghanistan: 8-year-old bride of mullah bleeds to death on her wedding night”

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/05/afghanistan-8-year-old-bride-of-mullah-bleeds-to-death-on-her-wedding-night

          This was so “spiritual” the holy rapist caused his victim to bleed to death.

          Yet more:

          For your union with the Father…
          …………………………..

          Rezali Mehil is still lying, claiming my abuser was a Christian cleric. Who does she think she’s fooling?

          I won’t much deal with the rest of her sick fantasies, except for *this*:

          …the washing of the skin and the insides of your legs as if you can *somehow* wash out your sins…
          …………………………..

          Once again, this pious Muslim believes that abuse is the *fault of the victim*. But this should not surprise–Muslims have been claiming that the victims of Muslim rape in German and other European cities was the fault of the rape victims:

          “Muslim cleric blames victims for Cologne sex attacks…”

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/01/muslim-cleric-blames-victims-for-cologne-sex-attacks-they-were-half-naked-and-wearing-perfume

          Have I mentioned how much I hate Islam?

          More:

          You have tried to build an external façade to protect yourself …and certainly fooled that non perceptive loser champ …”I had *no* idea” she says!..

          But Rezali …now she had the perception that something was amiss…and me …yes I ..I..have been helping you to face up to your fears and emotions and turmoil in a most unusual way …but it is healing you isn’t it …finally you have the opening that you have been looking for …bondage to the mother of Islam.
          …………………………..

          My experiences have led me to *hate* bondage and to fight against it wherever I find it–and Islam is a much greater evil than is disorganized criminality in the West.

          More:

          The more you delve into it and Aeisha …the more it sets you free…so keep coming Graven… step closer and closer to Islam …and you WILL BE FREE.. you will understand Aiesha…and your soul will be liberated.

          Tell all these peoples here that it is the truth ….you will feel better for it …tell them!!!
          …………………………..

          Dream on, Mohammedan. If I were prone to Stockholm Syndrome I would have succumbed long since–instead, I am an *implacable foe* of such evil. I have *no intention* to defend it.

          Rezali Mehil targets staunch Anti-Jihadists like Champ and myself–and Mirren and Dumbledore’s Army–because we are strong and decent women who will *never* submit to the evils of Islam.

        • Rezali Mehil says

          Jan 30, 2016 at 5:53 am

          Salaam Sandra Lee Smith,

          I was so alarmed and saddened to read of your sexual abuses at such a tender age. I can read the hurt in your lines and agree with that all paedos should be dealt with appropriately by the authorities.

          Although not allowed I will pray to Allah SAW to give you peace of mind and solace to get over this life sentence. I will dedicate one prayer entirely to you.

          I pray also that you did manage to get the children… as a woman …being childless is such a baarren and empty feeling to happen.

          All the best for the future …you poor dear …

          More Later ..

          Rezali

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Jan 30, 2016 at 5:35 pm

          Then kindly start with Muhammad and all who follow his example; because they are ALL vicious pedophiles!

        • Atheist7 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 6:13 am

          I was listening to a lecture by Robert Spencer several years ago and he expressed the idea that during the time of Muhammad women were considered to be property and “marriage” at a very early age was common. So with respect to this issue, Muhammad was not doing anything unusual for his time. So what would be considered child rape by today’s standards was just “business as usual” back then.

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 3:08 pm

          Marriage, in the regional culture, was at puberty, at a time when the average life expectancy was about 40-45 years, so families needed to be started earlier; but marriage to children before puberty was NOT a common practice. Betrothal might take place earlier, but not the actual marriage and consummation.

        • Atheist7 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 4:24 pm

          Thanks Sandra, That seem very reasonable.

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 12:25 am

          You’re welcome.

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 30, 2016 at 5:17 pm

          Sandra, I’m *so* sorry this happened to you. I’m glad you are doing what you can to get past it.

          And your are quite right–this sort of evil is *not* condoned in the civilized West–unlike under Islam.

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Jan 30, 2016 at 5:40 pm

          For me, that was many decades ago, and I’ve recovered as much as possible; I only use it now to help others or make others aware of the harm it does to its victims, which I’m sure you know as well as I. Like you, I often behaved in that “dhimmi” manner, during my childhood, as a survival mechanism. Well, I’m NO ONE’S “dhimmi” now; only Yeshua has authority over me, and that by my choice! I don’t ever aim to go back to that status! I hope you don’t either. We deserved better as children, and now, as adults we can make that better happen!

        • Rezali Mehil says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 7:40 am

          Salaam Sandra Lee Smith…

          You say “Then kindly start with Muhammad”….
          I have already told Graven and now YOU that Muhammad SAW and Aiesha was a holy union ordained by Allah SWT.

          YOU need to STOP peddling any BS between these two spiritually enlightened peoples. They were CHOSEN to be together….can you not see that? Over 1.5billion peoples can.

          Like I explained to Graven …pls understand the emotional bondage that you were chosen to experience …there is release from that …be a slave (Abdullah) to Muhammad SAW and get closer to Aiseha’s emotional being… your soul is up for release now…you have been chosen for that too …should you choose to see the light.

          Don’t delay

          More Later …

          Rezali

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 12:50 pm

          Do you have any clue how many pedophiles use some variation of that excuse??? There will NEVER be anything holy about abusing any child like that! Yhwh God, the true God of Abraham, condemned child abuse, and declared it would be better for the abuser to have a millstone hung around his neck and he be dropped into the sea, than what’s coming to him; that includes your Muhammad! What he did to that little girl is beyond despicable, and to claim it as holy is even worse! Clearly, you have NO understanding of the soul damaging effects of such abuse!

        • Angemon says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 6:41 pm

          Rezali Mehil posted:

          “You say “Then kindly start with Muhammad”….
          I have already told Graven and now YOU that Muhammad SAW and Aiesha was a holy union ordained by Allah SWT.
          ”

          What of the other tens, if not hundred, of millions of muslim underage girls married off to other old pedophiles throughout history because of muhammad’s perversions? Are they “holy unions ordained by allah” as well?

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 8:28 pm

          Atheist7 wrote:

          I was listening to a lecture by Robert Spencer several years ago and he expressed the idea that during the time of Muhammad women were considered to be property and “marriage” at a very early age was common. So with respect to this issue, Muhammad was not doing anything unusual for his time. So what would be considered child rape by today’s standards was just “business as usual” back then.
          ………………………….

          There are a few issues here, Atheist. Firstly, as Sandra notes, men having sex with pre-pubescent children as a matter of course was unusual at most periods–even this one.

          Secondly, the “Prophet” Muhammed was not supposed to be an average man of his times–that is, one of the most brutal of societies, dark ages Arabia.

          Instead, he was supposed to be the “perfect man”.

          Certainly, Jesus lived during a time when brutality and slavery were disturbingly common–and yet, he never kept slaves, nor did he torture or brutalize others.

          But *because* Muhammed is considered the ideal man, and not just some barbaric dark ages warlord, thousands of little girls are suffering *today*, as vicious Muslims rush to emulate their pedophile “Prophet”.

          Child marriage is rife all over the Muslim world for this very reason.

        • Atheist7 says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 9:07 pm

          Gravenimage. Well said!

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 8:37 pm

          Ew–Rezali Mehil sounds positively satanic whispering away, urging us to embrace slavery and child rape!

          Sandra, good for you for standing up against this evil.

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Feb 1, 2016 at 12:40 am

          Thanks, Graven Image; and good for you as well. We have to speak what we know all too well, because so many children can’t yet, and are still suffering this needlessly. That it’s still happening in the world is a disgrace; that this nation is pulling back from the child protection laws again for the “sake” of the Muslims and the homosexual lobbies is absolutely disgusting to me!

      • gravenimage says

        Jan 25, 2016 at 7:48 pm

        I should add that this was the case just growing up in this dysfunctional family and neighborhood. I was lucky enough to have counter influences from school and the surrounding American culture, which were generally *much* healthier.

        For a true dhimmi, their entire milieu is that of toadying to Islam.

        That being said, there is no excuse for this Melkite Catholic Patriarch. Other eastern Christian leaders have openly spoken out about the threat to their parishioners.

        He is supposed to protect his flock, not chide them for not trusting their persecutors.

        • TJFreedomjihad says

          Jan 26, 2016 at 12:58 am

          Graven, every word Wellington said, I echo 100%, I have admired you commentary both, for years. Just FYI. Well learned, and thoughtful heartfelt comments, with a broad base of expert knowledge of history, that I always look forward to learning of through you both. Success in dealing shows through, Graven. Kudos to you.

          So very many have situations of many kinds to handle, I suspect an incredibly higher percentage in the devil’s cult.

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 26, 2016 at 1:11 pm

          Thank you so much, TJ. I always look for your comments, as well.

          And I agree with you about Wellington’s erudite contributions here.

    • Mazo says

      Jan 25, 2016 at 9:04 pm

      Dunce, Fouad Ajami is descended from a Persian who moved to Lebanon. He is not of Arab stock. His surname literally means non Arab.

      • Wellington says

        Jan 25, 2016 at 9:40 pm

        That’s the best you can do? That Ajami is not of Arab stock because his ancestry is Persian and not Arab, even though he hails from an Arab country? That’s like maintaining that though I am not of British stock but of German stock even though I was born into and grew up in a British-created polity, America, that if I criticized the British and the polities they created in their imperial endeavors it doesn’t really count because I’m really German.

        Are you really this dense? Are you really this much of a DUNCE? Apparently so. And Ajami aside, do you actually refute my claim that the Arabs are the most effed up major people on planet earth? Yeah, if you do, I’d like to hear your reasoning, that is of course assuming you are capable of true reasoning.

      • gravenimage says

        Jan 25, 2016 at 10:00 pm

        Good grief. dhimmitude is not about ethnicity–threatened non-Muslims in Persia are as apt to kow tow to Islam as are threatened non-Muslims in Arab countries.

        Is Mazo pretending that we don’t know this?

      • Westman says

        Jan 25, 2016 at 10:03 pm

        No need for name calling. The legacy of the late Mr. Ajami is not damaged.

        Unfortunately, since the 1979 “revolution” the Western world hardly notices any difference between Arabs and Persians although there is a great historical difference. Militant Muslim countries are seen as a composite.

        I had some fun-loving Iranian students that were probably killed in the 8 years war. The sooner the Ayatollahs are permanently gone, the better.

      • Kepha says

        Jan 26, 2016 at 8:01 am

        Mazo, this kind of essentialist nationalism learned from 19th century Germany affects too many Chinese-born and educated, regardless of their side of the Taiwan Strait. It’s why they called Amb. Locke a “banana”; and by a perverse twist of fate it’s why extreme “Greens” in Taiwan claim an Austronesian heritage when their great-grandparents never called an Austronesian anything but “番子” (“savage”, more or less). It’s pathetic and it stinks. It may even end with China getting beaten up by an American general surnamed Zhao, Lin, or Huang–Just as the Germans got beaten up by an American general named Ironcutter (the translation of Eisenhower)–and I’m no fan of American and China going to war, for obvious reasons.

        Fouad Ajami may have a name that marks him as coming from a Persian or Kurdish lineage. But he was born, raised, and educated in Lebanon from a family whose first language had been Levantine Arabic for a long time.

        What of British or British-descended people with the following surnames?

        Scott
        French
        Fleming
        Dane
        Norman
        Wales
        Sterling (from “Easterling”)

        Probably others.

        What of Romanians surnamed “Turcu” (“Turkish”) who are neither Turkish-speaking nor Muslim?

        What of Chinese surnamed Wu or Ng (吴)who live somewhere other than the general area of Jiangsu, Shanghai, and Zhejiang?

        Ajami had to emigrate and make a life for himself in the USA in order to develop and display his talents as a historian of the Arab world. It probably worked out very well for Dr. Ajami himself (and certainly for the USA), but the Arab world ought to wonder why so many people like him have to leave in order to make good.

        One of the inescapable facts of history is that people move around and they adjust their identities in larger or smaller ways.

        • Mazo says

          Jan 26, 2016 at 12:04 pm

          Maybe not in Lebanon, but in the Arabian peninsula and especially in the Saudi heartland of Najd, the pure blood tribal Arabs would make fun of and mock Fouad Ajami if he tried to claim his “Arabness”. Even if he was a Sunni he would not be allowed to marry into their families. Lineage and racial blood purity is important to the true Arabs. And it had nothing to do with 19th century German nationalism. Its a part of their traditional culture.

          If Fouad Ajami tried criticizing Arab culture in Najd with that surname, he would be sent to the emergency room of a hospital.

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 26, 2016 at 1:35 pm

          The appalling Mazo wrote:

          Lineage and racial blood purity is important to the true Arabs.
          ………………………………

          And Islam is in many ways an Arab supremacist creed.

          While there are many non-Arab Muslims, they are all pressured to adopt Arab names and cultural norms, and to look down on any others less Arab than themselves.

          One example is in Pakistan, where many adopt the surname “Qureshi” to indicate descent from the “Prophet” Muhammed’s Arabian tribe, even though most of them are ethnically no different from their Indian Hindu ancestors.

          While Westerners may be proud of their ethnic heritage, most of us understand that what really matters is individual character–what we make of ourselves–and not lineage or other matters beyond our control which are ultimately meaningless.

          We may use such heritage as something to live up to–or, in some cases, something to overcome–but in any case it does not define us.

          More:

          If Fouad Ajami tried criticizing Arab culture in Najd with that surname, he would be sent to the emergency room of a hospital.
          ………………………………

          More of the usual from Muslims–threats. This is exactly how Muslims respond to any Infidels who dare to criticize their foul creed.

          Under dhimmitude, no Kuffar are allowed to say *anything* against their brutal overlords–not even to complain of their being victimized.

          Mazo applauds enforcers of *exactly* the dhimmitude we see from Patriarch Gregory III Laham. *Ugh*.

          Here in the West, we can critique and improve our own societies–this is, indeed, the backbone of democracy. It is also utterly alien to the Muslim mindset, which is why–along with the creed of Islam itself–Muslim societies are so backward and stagnant.

        • Mazo says

          Jan 26, 2016 at 2:41 pm

          According to cravenmirage apparently no Arab has ever set foot in Pakistan for the last 1,300 years. Neither have Persians or Turks apparently.

          Islam apparently came there by phantoms and the conquests of the subcontinent was accomplished by phantoms.

          There is an entire caste of Ashraf in the subcontinent who are descended from foreign noble Muslims while local Indian Muslims-descendants of converted Hindus, were in the lower Ajlaf caste. The Arzal caste are descended from dalit untouchable converts. The Ashraf are descended from the multitudes of Arab, Turkic, and Persians who flooded into India during the Medieval conquests.

          Arabs do NOT want others pretending to be Arabs. They do NOT want fakers trying to infiltrate Arab society by adopting fake Arab lineages and trying to assimilate. Arabs value their blood purity and are and were strongly against assimilation of fakes. Arabs mock such people as fake Arabs. There is even a word in Arabic use for such people pretending to be Arab. They want to clearly distinguish themselves from non-Arabs.

          I have no idea where Hugh Fitzgerald got the idiotic idea that Arabs want everyone else to become an Arab.

          Fouad Ajami was a Muslim. True Arabs would not tolerate a Persian, even if he were a Sunni, of insulting or criticizing their culture. Its about ethnicity not religion, cravenmirage.

        • Kepha says

          Jan 26, 2016 at 5:56 pm

          @Mazo (2:41 PM)

          I understand how various parts of the world regard ancestry as a key, After all, I’ve known lots of Jews all my life (and you will never be able to tell me they’re somehow more depraved than the rest of us); and I myself have connections to a tribe that calls itself “People of the Zhong Yuan 中原人”, even though they haven’t been resident in Shandong and Henan for a millennium.

          I have read enough of Middle Eastern history to also be aware that back in the 19th century, Arabic-speaking Egyptian Muslim peasants reserved “Arab” for the Bedouin, whom they despised.

          Further, I note that many Muslim leaders in the period immediately following their conquest of Byzantine and Sassanian lands, did not want to encourage conquered people to convert to Islam: they wished to preserve the tax base off of which a relatively small Muslim military caste lived.

          And I’m not sure that Fouad Ajami’s criticism of the way Arab elites and states did politics meant he hated or intended to insult the Arabs. Indeed, I get the sense that he himself was rather proud of a lot that went down in Arab and Muslim history. However, he also feared very much that the Arab leadership of the 1940’s-1970’s were leading their peoples into dangerous collective delusions. I guess that in this, he was more a dissenter against bad choices being made by a society he fundamentally loved–and America has been absorbing people like that since before we were independent.

          But, given that I have, on another thread, expressed my deep reservations about Trump over his boast that he’s never had to ask God for forgiveness, I wonder if some of the “delusion” that Ajami critiqued in some of his modern history/political science didn’t come ultimately from Islam’s own self-congratulation, such as in al-Imran 110, in which Muslims are praised as the “best of peoples”. Rather than using this as a gratuitous attack on Islam, I am using this to show how I, who nurtures his spirituality on the Old and New Testaments, am struck by the contrast with how Israel’s election by God is not for their own goodness, but out of God’s faithfulness to his own promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and that the redemption we are given in Jesus Christ is not offered to those who believe themselves morally better, but to sinners (hence, Jesus taught us to pray, “Forgive us our debts” [Matthew 6:1]). Now, I do not here report Ajami’s own conclusion, but one of my own questions.

        • Mazo says

          Jan 26, 2016 at 6:24 pm

          When Arabs talk about true Arabs, they are talking about people who can trace their ancestry to Arab tribes from the Arabian peninsula, Bedouin or not.

          On the Arabian peninsula in insular areas like Najd there are true Arabs of tribal lineage, both Bedouin and non-Bedouin. There are Najdi Arabs who are pure Arabs but not Bedouin and not nomads. They live a sedentary lifestyle. And there are nomadic Bedouin Najdi Arabs. They all regard themselves as Arabs and can trace their lineage back a long time to Arab tribes on the peninsula. Both of them look down upon non-Arabs. Its entirely a racial thing and they trace it throug blood, not just culture or lifestyle. Bedouins were criticized in the Qur’an at one point.

          Outside in other countries like Egypt its a different dynamic. Some of those Egyptian peasants might be descended from Coptic converts, they don’t know their ancestors past three generations and don’t belong to any Arab tribe.

          In Morocco there are real tribal racial Arabs like the Moroccan royal family who are a Sharif family and Qurayshi, there are Arabized Berbers, and there are Berbers.

          Najdis would not regard Arabized Berbers as true Arabs. Under no circumstances.

          If someone called Ajami went to Najd and started criticizing their lifestyle and culture he is guaranteed a trip to the emergency room.

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 26, 2016 at 11:39 pm

          More from the sickening Mazo:

          According to cravenmirage (sic) apparently no Arab has ever set foot in Pakistan for the last 1,300 years.

          Islam apparently came there by phantoms and the conquests of the subcontinent was accomplished by phantoms.
          ………………………………………..

          *Hardly*. Certainly Arab Muslims came to India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan as a conquering force–but even given their spectacular butchery they never succeeded in wiping out the dense population of the sub-continent.

          So today most Muslims in Pakistan are descended in large part from their Hindu ancestors. Some have some Arab genes, certainly, especially given the Muslim propensity for rape–but I doubt even Mazo would claim that Muslim Pakistanis on the whole are purely Arab.

          More:

          There is an entire caste of Ashraf in the subcontinent who are descended from foreign noble Muslims while local Indian Muslims-descendants of converted Hindus, were in the lower Ajlaf caste. The Arzal caste are descended from dalit untouchable converts. The Ashraf are descended from the multitudes of Arab, Turkic, and Persians who flooded into India during the Medieval conquests.
          ………………………………………..

          More repulsive Arab supremacism.

          More:

          Arabs do NOT want others pretending to be Arabs. They do NOT want fakers trying to infiltrate Arab society by adopting fake Arab lineages and trying to assimilate. Arabs value their blood purity and are and were strongly against assimilation of fakes. Arabs mock such people as fake Arabs. There is even a word in Arabic use for such people pretending to be Arab. They want to clearly distinguish themselves from non-Arabs.
          ………………………………………..

          *Bleah*–how repulsive.

          I did not say Arabs wanted other Muslims to be able to “pass” as Arab–just that all Muslims aspire to and ape Arab norms.

          More:

          I have no idea where Hugh Fitzgerald got the idiotic idea that Arabs want everyone else to become an Arab.
          ………………………………………..

          What utter rot–Hugh Fitzgerald never said such a thing. It is just that Islam is an Arab supremacist creed–as Mazo here makes *abundantly* clear–and so all Muslims esteem and aspire to “Arabness”.

          More:

          Fouad Ajami was a Muslim. True Arabs would not tolerate a Persian, even if he were a Sunni, of insulting or criticizing their culture. Its about ethnicity not religion, cravenmirage (sic).
          ………………………………………..

          Only to a point. No Infidel may criticize Islam, and no non-Arab may criticize Muslim Arabs. Islam, despite its false claims to equality–made in the West, in any case–is an entirely supremacist creed, as the ugly Mazo makes abundantly clear here.

          More:

          If someone called Ajami went to Najd and started criticizing their lifestyle and culture he is guaranteed a trip to the emergency room.
          ………………………………………..

          Note that Mazo loves this brutal image so deeply that he has now repeated it *twice*. *Ugh*.

          Here’s another interesting point–while Mazo has never actually said where he is from that I’ve seen, he mostly unleashes his spam on threads dealing with the far east here, where he holds forth as an “expert”.

          So while it is not impossible, it seems unlikely that he is Arab himself–and yet he is scathing in his disdain for non-Arabs.

          Very telling about the Muslim mindset, in any case.

        • Mazo says

          Jan 27, 2016 at 12:43 pm

          I’m stating facts, Arabs hold everyone else in disdain and will send you to the emergency room for insulting them.

          They, the Arabs of the peninsula, are never going to change their culture or attitudes to non-Arabs. Get used to it.

        • Oliver says

          Jan 27, 2016 at 7:09 pm

          I was taught that MANY European surnames were given by Napoleon, when he (his armies) conquered lands. And the names were often that–or derived from- their professions, (Taylor, Tailor, Carpenter; etc; of their father’s name -Robertson-Robert’s son; -son of Robert, etc.–(Russian names-in the past, I don’t know about now-also had their father’s name as a middle name-men, anyhow).

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 27, 2016 at 9:51 pm

          Yet more from Mazo:

          I’m stating facts, Arabs hold everyone else in disdain and will send you to the emergency room for insulting them.
          ………………………………..

          Mazo so admires this image of Muslim Arabs sending people to the hospital if anyone questions them that he has now repeated it *three times* on this thread. *Ugh*.

          More:

          They, the Arabs of the peninsula, are never going to change their culture or attitudes to non-Arabs. Get used to it.
          ………………………………..

          More Muslim projection. No one mentioned Arabs changing their culture–I noted that Arab Muslims expect other Muslims–as well as Infidels–to submit to *their* cultural norms.

          No one should be surprised that Mazo has proven unable to grasp this difference.

    • Oliver says

      Jan 26, 2016 at 3:43 pm

      Wellington, (I mentioned this paper-no longer around-a few times) in response- re: worst people, I agree; and the following -not directly related- might answer why some assholes get elected. (And good people don’t, or are defamed-especially now)

      THEY HAD A POP QUIZ– THIS WAS BEFORE AN ELECTION.

      IT WAS FOR WHOM WOULD YOU VOTE? THREE CANDIDATES:

      Candidate 1–born to great wealth; drank a few martinis (or more) daily; heavy smoker; married his cousin; always had one or two mistresses, .

      Candidate 2–Born to great wealth; heavy drinker- rumored that he drank a QUART OF WHISKEY EVERY DAY. Smoked; could be very sarcastic. Was deported from several countries, that he visited, when younger ( but an adult).

      Candidate 3–Born to humble parents. Served in the military-enlisted, in fact, in the military. Was a hero and won one of the highest awards for bravery given. Was a vegetarian. Loved dogs and little children.
      Wrote a book, translated into numerous languages, best seller; many people were impressed and motivated by it. Neither smoked or drank.

      ———————————————————————————————————————————-

      Most people would pick Candidate 3.

      Candidate 1- Franklin D. Roosevelt
      Candidate 2-Sir Winston Churchill

      and –drum roll

      candidate 3– Adolph Hitler.

      • gravenimage says

        Jan 27, 2016 at 9:57 pm

        Oliver, this just shows that you have to look at a person’s character *in aggregate*. Leaning that he has a few flaws or a few superficial good points does *not* tell the whole story.

        • Oliver says

          Jan 28, 2016 at 2:25 pm

          That, G. I., was the point that the newspaper’s owner and editor was trying to make. Glad that you got it. As I recall, he had some letters from people who felt that he rigged it. he didn’t.

          (I guessed 1 & 2 immediately; #3 took me about 3 or 4 minutes).

          But yes, one has to look at a persons total character. And realize all people have flaws. (Moses, who led the Jews out of Egypt, and in the desert for 40 years had a bad temper).

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 31, 2016 at 8:14 pm

          All true, Oliver.

      • j_not_a says

        Jan 27, 2016 at 10:54 pm

        Candidate 2 Winston Churchill also battled his whole life with his “black dog of depression” as he referred to it. No doubt his alcohol consumption was his way of dealing with it as self medicating. There are some historical references to suggest he may have actually been afflicted with bipolar disorder. Nonetheless, people with bipolar are often brilliant and accomplished.

    • Kepha says

      Jan 26, 2016 at 6:19 pm

      @Wellington: Since both you and I are “culturalists” (although I’d gladly call myself a “multiculturalist”, were it not for that term’s current designation for a bunch of ignorant “anticulturalists”), I have my own take.

      We heirs of Western Christendom, whether Roman Catholic or Protestant, had our views of man, God, society, and history shaped by the North African church father Augustine of Hippo (354-430). As his _Confessions_ and certain other works show, he had a very keen appreciation for the problem of sin and stressed that the salvation we are given in Christ is of God’s grace. He denied that man is somehow able to save himself through his own righteousness or even prepare himself to receive saving grace. In this, he opposed the British monk Pelagius, an ascetic moralist who opposed predestination and said we are naturally able to will and to do the good independently.

      Apparently, Augustine wrote to eastern bishops warning them about Pelagius’ heresy. However, the eastern bishops wrote back and said they found nothing amiss about Pelagius’ ideas. I won’t go much further on this tack, for I lack the depth of knowledge of how the Augustinian-Pelagian controversy was seen and discussed in the east. But it strikes me that Oriental Christianity does not seem to take human sinfulness quite as seriously as dies the West. Incidentally, Islam also makes a very clear denial of the doctrine of original sin and doesn’t accept the Augustinian Christian view of its pervasive influence on and in the human soul.

      I realize that as a Uniate, Gregory Laham is in communion with Rome. But I wonder if he is not also somewhat influenced as well by the older eastern tradition that could not find anything amiss in Pelagius?

      Perhaps the sel-critical attitude of the West is something that Augustine, through his view of human sinfulness, passed on to not only the Western churches, but also to segments of post-Christian Western culture it is thus in the cultural DNA of Western philosophy and science, as well as theology. Conversely, the Middle East, which could not find fault with Pelagius, ends up unable to either offer or tolerate the kind of radical self-criticism in which Augustine trained us Westerners. This may be a deep cause of the Middle East’s peculiar susceptibility to grandiose delusions and insane conspiracy theories.

      Just a few ideas that sprang up after interacting with Mazo’s comments below.

      • Wellington says

        Jan 26, 2016 at 8:57 pm

        In the interest of full disclosure. Kepha, ever since I was an undergraduate major in history back in the Mesozoic Era, I have been of the opinion that Pelagius had the better view of mankind than did Augustine. In fact, I don’t think it’s even a close call, though Augustine’s view of man, so relished by medieval Christians aplenty, Luther, certainly Calvin, et al., prevailed and not that of Pelagius, tending to prove, very much tending to prove I would contend, that history is written by the victors.

        The same could be said for the early orthodox Christians who actually took Jesus’ resurrection literally while the Cristian gnostics from the get-go understood it as a spiritual resurrection only. But Pelagius and the gnostic Christians weren’t the victors, now were they? Just sayin’.

        • dumbledoresarmy says

          Jan 27, 2016 at 5:17 am

          Wellington – re the Gnostics: if you have not read David Bentley Hart, do. His book “Atheist Delusions: The Christian Revolution and Its Fashionable Enemies” has a very extensive and detailed chapter on the Gnostics, whose extant works he has read. He is very, very erudite on the subject of the eastern church and of early Christianity in general, in the context of its times, including the sorts of things that were believed and thought in, say, the century before and around the time of Jesus; and he is rationally convinced that the orthodox faith – what he calls ‘great church” Christianianity – was always the ‘centre’ of what we call Christian, in continuity with the teaching and practice of Jesus and the apostles, whereas the so-called Christian gnostics were in harmony with the Zeitgeist. Christianity, like Judaism its parent, swam **against the stream** and was the genuinely counter-cultural/ revolutionary thing; gnosticism on the other hand blended seamlessly in, it wasn’t anything new, strange or different, it was what was “in the air’…

          You might also like to read Charles Williams, “The Descent of the Dove”. He was an English novelist and mystic and he was very, very well read; he has read the eastern fathers as well as Augustine; he has read people like Gregory of Nyssa. And in the five pages that he devotes to the Gnostics (or at least, the ‘Christian’ gnostics, for there were plenty of gnostics who had no connection with Christianity whatsoever and never called themselves Christians; that is something people seem to forget, these days), he reaches exactly the same conclusions that Hart reaches, decades later.

          After summarising Gnostic beliefs as found in the works usually represented as a source for ‘gnostic Christianity’, Williams observes, “All these views were fervently rejected by the general opinion of the Church. The revolt against the Gnostic influence depended on two things. There was the capacity of individual anti-Gnostic writers such as Irenaeus of Lyons.
          “There was also – and far more important – the actual belief of the separate Churches. It was on many points yet undefined; there were speculative points on which it has not yet been defined. But all of these groups in all those cities, founded in the apostolic doctrine, made it clear that they did not, in fact, believe what the Romantic philosophers declared; that this was not the Faith as they had received and held it.

          “What did the Churches believe? They believed that Almighty God – the final deity – had Itself created heaven and earth, and was, as the First and Only Cause of them, finally responsible for them. They believed that Jesus Christ was the Son of the Father -in in that Deity – and had been materially born on earth ex Maria Virgine. They believed, that is, that the First and Only Cause initiated, operated, and concluded Redemption.
          “They rejected, with great energy, the idea that cause belonged to a subordinate Demiurge, and the idea that there was a special kind of superior redemption for superior persons…By definition, all men were in need of salvation; therefore of faith and repentance in faith….
          “The Church anathematised the pseudo-Romantic heresies; there could be no superiority except in morals, in labour, in love. “See, understand, enjoy”, said the Gnostics; “repent, believe, love”, said the Church, “and if you see anything by the way, *say* so.”
          “In some sense, the Gnostics avoided any “scandal” to the mind and soul. The stones they offered fitted the corners of many temples; only not of the City of Christendom….”.

          I might add that what Hart finds in the extant gnostic writings is a disgust with and rejection of the world – of ordinary human life, the body, normal sexuality and marriage, the material cosmos – that is far, far beyond the supposed denigration of the flesh by even the most ascetic of Christians. Because – in diametrical contrast to the Gnostics – Orthodox Christians were bound – by the doctrines of the Incarnation and of the Resurrection (not to mention the revelatory moment called the Transfiguration) – to a recognition and affirmation of the original goodness of matter as such. They could not view matter, in and of itself, as evil or as the source of evil. All the things of earth would be redeemed.

          PS – re the establishment and recognition of the Christian canon- the texts that comprise the New Testament as currently known – I recommend Gerald Bray, “Creeds, Councils and Christ”, and Michael Bird, “The Gospel of the Lord” (which focuses in on the four canonical gospels).

        • Kepha says

          Jan 27, 2016 at 10:50 am

          @DDA and Wellington:

          I love you guys. It’s easy to have an honest conversation; even if Wellington and I do not see eye to eye about Pealgius and Augustine.

          DDA, I’m going to look for David Bentley Hart’s book. I’m another who’s long noted the counter-cultural bent of biblical religion; and have been appalled at the shoddiness apparent in such champions of Gnosticism as Pagels. A lot of people have urged me to read Charles Williams–but I confess I’m not a big fiction reader. I think I’ll finally make the effort.

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 27, 2016 at 9:59 pm

          Kepha, Wellington, and DDA–fascinating exchange. Thank you.

        • Wellington says

          Jan 28, 2016 at 4:22 pm

          To dda and Kepha I want both of you to know that though you are devout Christians and I am a devout agnostic (or, as I sometimes describe myself, a devout ex-Catholic) I respect the two or you very much. You challenge me and what’s even better is that your religious belief system is no threat to liberty. Indeed, the Christian theological blueprint is an ally of freedom and only betrayals of it are the problem, contra the Islamic theological blueprint where the only way a Muslim can truly be for liberty is if he betrays his own religion.

          A greater difference between two faiths would be hard to find. Take good care, both of you.

  10. gerard says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 6:29 pm

    A spirit of foolishness is abroad…

  11. Sam says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 6:42 pm

    That is what Allah wants Muslims to do. Instill fear in the heart of the infidels. And Muslims are doing a great job all over the world. This person can not say that he is a Christian while enabling Muslims.

  12. gravenimage says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 7:02 pm

    “We, the Arab Christians, always defend Islam and our Muslim brothers – no one defends Islam like the Arab Christians do.”
    …………………………………..

    Might Patriarch Gregory III Laham ask himself how wise this is, given that there is not a Muslim country in his vast diocese that is not in the process of wiping out its Christian population?

    In many places this is an out-and-out genocide.

    More:

    Gregory III, who is also the Patriarch of Antioch and All the East, and Alexandria and Jerusalem, is a strong advocate of Christian-Muslim dialogue, but said that these days Christians lack faith that Muslims are willing to accept them.
    …………………………………..

    Is he actually chiding the victims of Islam for not trusting their murderers?

    More:

    If any Melkite Greek Catholics get out of line and start telling the truth about Islam’s doctrines of warfare and subjugation of Infidels, including their good friends the Melkite Greek Catholics, our Muslim brothers can rest assured that they have the Patriarch Gregory III Laham and his faithful bishops in their corner, ready to silence all such effrontery, which everyone knows is a continuing danger to the Church.
    …………………………………..

    This must be especially painful for Robert Spencer, himself a devout Melkite Greek Catholic.

    What fools these dhimmis be!

  13. Bridget Ames says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 7:02 pm

    Well sadly they are in a long line of Catholic leaders failing to lead. We have a Pope that wants to create his own mega religion. The men in these offices will soon reap the fruits of the seeds they planted, oh but wait, only the good ones who were willing to save souls of the flock were murdered, so maybe these men who decide to be apart of a corrupt world will continue to live comfortably in their betrayals of their own religion.

  14. Tom says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 7:10 pm

    “Lemmings”! Need we say anything more?

    Although that characterization is insulting to Lemmings everywhere; for that I apologize to the Lemmings.

    • Oliver says

      Jan 28, 2016 at 2:29 pm

      Tom, I thought that Lemmings were an imaginary species, like Unicorns.

      (I am aware of the story of the Lemmings following one into the sea and drowning; Need someone liek that (actually 2 or 3 like that, just here in n the US) One to lead the Muslims into the ocean; the other to lead the Hillary Clinton hate America supporters into the same ocean; and the third for the Bernie Sanders communists.

      My views of the progressive ill-liberal so called liberals. who hate this country ( except for what they can get out of it-for themselves)

  15. Karen says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 7:10 pm

    Seems like the Patriarch is saying that the strategy of continuous, one way ‘niceness’ isn’t working. So….do more?

    Yes, by all means turn the other cheek, be kind, be generous. But stop deluding yourself about the probable outcome.

    • j_not_a says

      Jan 27, 2016 at 10:57 pm

      Yep, classic feeding the crocodile, hoping it will eat you last.

  16. Peter B says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 7:21 pm

    Bat Ye’or nailed it in Understanding Dhimmitude and The Decline of Eastern Christianity Under Islam.

  17. rev g says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 7:24 pm

    So Arab Christians defend Islam to death, literally. Free your minds, brothers!

  18. salim says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 7:30 pm

    This has puzzled me for years. As Islam became more violent in the last two decades, the Arab Christians (generally all of them but in particular those in Jordan, Palestine and Israel) developed more interest in defending it. In the past I didn’t feel that the Christians were keen on Islam. Is it fear or true feelings?
    Before the current resurgence of Islam, when Islam was just a religion the Christians feelings didn’t match those of Muslims, who were anti Americans and pro Nasser ( who cracked down on the Islamists).
    What puzzles me more is that some Arab Christians in America and Europe (who are supposed to be free to talk) insist to defend Islam.
    Arcbishop Hilarion Capucci is famous for his support to PLO, Dr. Azmi Bshara is known for being pro Islamic. I am not sure what would Edward Dr. Said position be if still alive.

  19. Baucent says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 7:40 pm

    By now the Greek Catholic Patriarch should have realized where all the “loving muslims and defending Islam” has got them…absolutely no where. His people are persecuted, turned out of their homes, their churches destroyed. The friendship they have extended has been thrown back in their faces. In the eyes of their muslim neighbours they will always be kuffers worthy only of contempt.

  20. Cynthia says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 8:07 pm

    Those are not true Christians. There is no middle ground here no gray areas. You cannot say praise Yahweh and and InshaAllah and HumdiliAllah from the same lips. It is better to fear Jehovah then to fear man

  21. mike ryan says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 8:50 pm

    There were indeed Jews who believed they could appease, and win favor from, the Nazi Germans —–until they went up into the heavens as smoke from the crematoria.

    This bishop sounds very much like the the Judenrat kapos of that dreadful era known as The Thousand Year Reich.

    An important difference is, unlike the nazi nightmare that was over in twelve blood-soaked years, the Age of Islamic supremacism has laste almost 1400 years, and is again on the upsurge.

    Dhimmitude has indeed be a success in that many Christians, caught for so long under the jackboot of Muslim totalitarianism, have learned to stay so close to the proverbial plantation.

    • Kepha says

      Jan 26, 2016 at 6:29 pm

      In all fairness, Mike, before World War I, German Jews, along with a lot of the rest of the country, were enjoying a gilded epoch of prosperity, expanding scientific knowledge, and, despite a fair amount of social prejudice and anti-Semitic agitation against the Jews, there were a lot of “Aryan” Germans who could be shocked at the Dreyfuss Affair in France and the pogroms in Russian and Rumania. Jewish numbers (understood as persons adhering to Judaism) were in decline, in large part because many Jews became Christians, intermarried, and were being absorbed into the wider society. Even as reactionary a figure as Bismarck could be friendly with the Jewish financier Bleichroder, and thought that if the Jews were really all that “alien” in Germany, the problem would ultimately be solved through intermarriage. For their part, many Jews embraced the assimilationist wave, too.

      I suspect that when Hitler was starting to become prominent, many German Jews thought the country was going through a phase from which it would quickly recover, either by Hitler coming to his senses (much like Schoenerer and other originally anti-Semitic Viennese politicians of an earlier period) or by Hitler’s removal by some level-headed generals. Sometimes, the preposterous proposals strike everyone as preposterous until they’re actually implemented. That was the tragedy of German Jewry.

      • gravenimage says

        Jan 27, 2016 at 10:01 pm

        All very true, Kepha. Excellent analysis.

        • Oliver says

          Jan 28, 2016 at 2:34 pm

          A friend, whose father survived the Holocaust, told me that some of the Kapos were more or less forced to do so; and tried to help their bretherin in the camps-smuggling food to them, etc.

          And some, if not many, when forced to renounce their Judaism, refused and were tortured before being murdered.

          (Eli Wiesel talks about some of this, in some of his writings)

  22. somehistory says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 8:52 pm

    Defense of the indefensible.

    In the U.S., it is unlawful for even the vilest criminal to face a judge and jury without an attorney.
    Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, Jeffery Dahmer, Gary Ridgeway…all had counsel to argue their *innocence.*

    But, this evil thing islam is not in such a situation and it is not unlawful for charges and accusations to be made against this wild beast from satan..

    What is more, even in a court of law, it is not required that the victims of crimes argue or give testimony for the defendant. It would be viewed as insane for any of them to do so…in the cases of Bundy, Gacy, Dahmer and Ridgeway, it would not be possible. The families of the dead certainly didn’t do that.

    Why do these people calling themselves Christians, claiming as brothers and sisters the victims of moslim atrocities in Syria, Iraq, Nigeria, Egypt, etc. think it is a good idea to defend islam?

    Not only is it an insane thing to defend those who would gladly torture and kill them, and are doing so to Christians and others in these other countries, but it says a whole lot about those claiming to follow Christ and serve The True God, The God of Love.

    How do they reconcile loving Christ and defending those who lie about Him an slaughter His brothers?
    IMO, based on my reading of Scripture, they can’t really do both.

    • somehistory says

      Jan 25, 2016 at 8:55 pm

      “and” slaughter, not “an.”

  23. Edgar Allen says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 9:17 pm

    I am an American citizen, Coptic Christian by birth. I dont defend Islam; I condemn it whole heartedly.
    But I’ll give these Church leaders in Muslim countries a pass: THEY HAVE NO CHOICE. If they said anything different in public, they will be killed, along with scores of other Christians.

    Let’s leave our scorn for those Church leaders who live in the West, and are not under the immediate sword of the Muslims. What is their excuse?

    “Authentic Islam and a proper reading of the Koran is oposed to all forms of violence”

    What was his excuse? Moral cowardice.

    • martin toledo says

      Jan 26, 2016 at 1:59 am

      Marked for the Hellfire is any one who call the Man jesus lord. I pray for you . Dont even pray by -Muhahmad
      Or you will find your great reward , right then and there you shall taste your fruits .
      -iammuslim ______

      • ECAW says

        Jan 26, 2016 at 3:14 am

        Does this mean something?

      • Kepha says

        Jan 26, 2016 at 8:26 am

        @Edgar Allen and Martin Toledo

        Martin, thanks for your concern for our souls, so I must reciprocate. Do you have any clue as to what the title al-Masih means? By using it, Muhammad condemned himself to Hell. And what else do you call someone who conquered death on the third day and holds the keys of death and Hell itself? And how are we to accept as divine a book that says Miriam the mother of Jesus is the daughter of the wife of Imran/Amram, missing a whole 1450 years between these two female saints? Believe me, I’d accept the Muslim apologist’s spiel that “Sister of Aaron/Harun” only means a righteous woman if all there was was Qur’an 19:22, but the thirties of al-Imran pretty much clinches it for me that Muhammad was one ignorant and confused puppy.

        I’ll go one further than you. If Jesus was just a man, what right did he have to say that no man can be his disciple unless he hates his father and mother? (Luke 14:26) What right did he have to call on people to believe in him, and make himself the standard of judgment?

        The man Jesus isn’t simply man. He is also God Incarnate. Because our sins are such a serious matter and so pervasive in our fallen nature, it required this Incarnation of the Word of God, his bearing our sins on the cross, and his rising from the dead on the third day to bring us salvation.

        Edgar–Thanks for your comment. Someone like this Melkite patriarch lives on a knife’s edge–as the current events pertaining to Arabic-speaking Christians in their ancestral lands too grievously demonstrate. This is why I will not join the chorus of condemnation against Gregory Laham. His comments are an attempt to save lives of his flock in a very dangerous situation.

        I’ll add that while I see Islam as pure delusion, I have known a few people who have found Christ and left it. Hence, I am not allowed to hate all Muslims as people, either. I pray that God will draw many many more of them out of its darkness into the light of Jesus Christ.

        • Laura says

          Jan 26, 2016 at 1:31 pm

          Amein, Kepha.

    • gravenimage says

      Jan 26, 2016 at 1:39 pm

      Edgar Allen, you are quite right that Western religious leaders have far less excuse in defending Islam than do those living in Dar-al-Islam.

      Most of them, though, do it out of ignorance rather than an actual affinity for this savagery. But they ultimately have no excuse for such ignorance, and do a great deal of harm by it.

      • Kepha says

        Jan 27, 2016 at 10:56 am

        Gravenimage, you’re one of the regulars here whom I really respect, but I’m not sure our Western religious leaders are ignorant. I believe that large swathes of the so-called “Mainstream Protestant” leadership sees its job as giving the Christian religion a not-so-decent burial, and see the Muslims as allies in the endeavor. They’re people who hate truth.

        • gravenimage says

          Jan 27, 2016 at 10:07 pm

          You have a point, Kepha.

          I should have used the term willful ignorance, which is rather at different matter.

          My main point was that I don’t believe most dhimmified Western religious leaders have allowed themselves to understand just how violent and barbaric Islam really is–they would rather accept a false whitewash of that creed, and just ignore examples of Muslim savagery, or else regard them as “un-Islamic” aberrations.

          And thank you for your kind words. I really respect your observations here, as well.

    • DFD says

      Jan 26, 2016 at 6:30 pm

      Edgar Allen says “THEY HAVE NO CHOICE. If they said anything different in public, they will be killed, along with scores of other Christians.”

      INDEED

      Edgar Allen says further “Let’s leave our scorn for those Church leaders who live in the West, and are not under the immediate sword of the Muslims”

      That was a good reponse showing understanding, and humanity. It is very easy for those in safety, and even anonymity, to show and demand courage. When faced with mutilation and crucifiction, it’s a very different story. No problem condemning Dhimmies – if you are not one of them. How do galley slaves take over the ship and turn it into a cruise liner? Any advice?

    • j_not_a says

      Jan 27, 2016 at 11:07 pm

      They should be willing to die for their Christian faith because they would know that sacrificing their lives for their faith they would be rewarded with their resurrection to life eternal. “Now if Christ is being preached that he has been raised up from the dead, how is it some among you say there is no resurrection of the dead? If, indeed, there is no resurrection of the dead, neither has Christ been raised up. But if Christ has not been raised up, our preaching is certainly in vain, and our faith is in vain….. Further, if Christ has not been raised up, your faith is useless; you are yet in your sins. . . . However, now Christ has been raised up from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death. For since death is through a man, resurrection of the dead is also through a man.”—1Co 15:12-21.

  24. Angemon says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 9:22 pm

    Greek Catholic Patriarch: No One Defends Islam Like Arab Christians

    And no one defends a wife-beater like his wife. What’s your point?

    Gregory III, who is also the Patriarch of Antioch and All the East, and Alexandria and Jerusalem, is a strong advocate of Christian-Muslim dialogue, but said that these days Christians lack faith that Muslims are willing to accept them.

    Hmm, I wonder if that unwillingness to accept them has something to do with their scriptures telling them not to take Jews or Christians as friends?…

    The Patriarch praised Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi for being a “great president” and said he met with Sisi to ask him to lead the Arab world, a mantle befitting the leader of the Middle East’s biggest Muslim country with the highest number of Christians.

    You’re going to have to choose one side: either you defend islam or you defend pan-Arabism. They are mutually exclusive.

  25. Sam says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 9:34 pm

    It’s a shame to have the heading Arab Christian. The real Arabs are from the Arabian peninsula who invented Islam. Christians in the Middle East and North Africa are from different ethnic groups than Arabs. Coptic indigenous Egyptian, Berbers indigenous North African who were forced to surrounder to Islam during the Arab conquest of North Africa and Syriac or Assyrian the native Christians of northern Iraq and Syria who are not Arabs but Aramaic or Syriac. People need to be specific its like calling an Irish an English just because they speak English which is wrong.

    • Baucent says

      Jan 26, 2016 at 1:32 am

      There are Christians in all ethnic groups, including Arabs. So the heading is factually correct. Christians in Israel and PA areas are Arabs.

      • Mazo says

        Jan 26, 2016 at 1:15 pm

        And the Christians in Jordan claim descent from Arab tribes unlike Copts or Syriacs.

  26. Christian says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 9:35 pm

    He is an actual poor dhimi but leaders of the west are acting like one.

  27. Sam says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 9:47 pm

    By the way most Egyptian Muslims are not Arab there originally Coptic – Egyptian who again of course surrounded to Islam out of fear during Islamic conquests in Egypt. These people who support pan Arabism are from tribal Arab back grounds and once they reach power they try to brain wash people and cause disaster in the country like Morsi did in Egypt during his power. Former president Morsi was of Palestinian background who was born and bred in Egypt.

  28. Matthieu Baudin says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 10:44 pm

    “..Siding with killers against their victims isn’t Christian charity by any rational standard, however much Gregory III and his minions try to dress up their betrayal in clerical robes…”

    All too true. And with all this grandiose brown nosing, why, you’d have to ask yourself doesn’t Gregory lll line up for circumcision, abandon his congregation outright and join the followers of Allah the merciful?

  29. Expat88 says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 10:51 pm

    I lived and worked in the Middle East for many years and was shocked when I first realized that the Middle Eastern Christians I met were always very much on the same page with the Muslims. I couldn’t understand how they could take the side of their oppressors, but they did. They would parrot the same anti-Western and anti semitic platitudes as the Muslims. I am not judging them for doing this, as I am sure they developed this way as a means of survival, but it was still disappointing to me.

  30. somehistory says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 11:03 pm

    Luke 14 is the account where Christ said anyone who wants to build a tower, must sit down and count the cost of building to make sure he has enough to complete the building work. If anyone begins building and does not have enough to complete it, he will be a source of laughter/contempt/scorn/derision to others who observe.

    Christ said this because He was really telling any who wish to be a Christian and follow Him,that he must first sit down and count the cost. Count the sacrifices made because of Christianity and obedience to God.

    Jesus Christ was hated and persecuted. He was tried…unlawfully, condemned, and sentenced to death. He prepared all for that same sort of treatment if they choose to follow Him….Christians are hated and unlawfully killed and have been over the centuries.

    Anyone becoming a Christian must “count the cost” if he/she expects to complete their life serving God and obeying Christ as King.

    Now, some say it is “judgmental” to point this out…that defending islam is something that those who haven’t lived in moslim lands just can’t understand and about which one shouldn’t have an opinion.

    However…it is not a sin to point out what Christ said: “Count the cost.” Know ahead of time that living as Christ lived will bring hatred…esp now from moslims who feel empowered to carry out their desire to murder for the devil.
    It is not a kindness to say that the rest of us don’t know what we are talking about because we don’t live in the ME..
    As though trying to make excuses will help the actions of those making excuses for islam and moslim behavior.
    Fear of men is something the Bible says to guard against as it keeps one from serving God completely. (Proverbs 29:25)

    Unless one has openly said all of the things that has happened/not happened personally, others cannot decide that these ones making the point here that defending islam is wrong don’t know about what they speak.
    Besides the fact, it isn’t necessary to have lived in majority moslim lands to have faced evil threats from others.

    • Mae says

      Jan 26, 2016 at 3:00 pm

      Thanks for your post.

      Every Christian martyr down through the ages wanted to live…wanted to live in peace with their families or friends around them. They did not choose death; they chose The Truth–Jesus Christ, and the truth of the Holy Scriptures. And in that choosing of The Truth, they died as faithful and true members of the Body of Christ.

      Following Christ is not easy. Luke 9:23-26 (New English Translation) relates what a Call to Discipleship is: “23 Then he said to them all, “If anyone wants to become my follower, he must deny himself, take up his cross daily, and follow me. 24 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will save it. 25 For what does it benefit a person if he gains the whole world but loses or forfeits himself? 26 For whoever is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of that person when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.”

      For those who comment, “It’s easy for you to say…you’re sitting safe and pretty in America,” we can respond, “Yes, you have a point. We do have it so much easier in America than just about anywhere else on earth.” That, however, is all the more reason to speak the truth while we can. This ease, this freedom of speech and action we have will not last. Getting ready for the coming storm must begin now. We make the decision NOW to follow Christ wherever that may lead. In our humanness we may be fearful. Jesus assures us, however, that He has overcome the world…and that persevering to the end–NO MATTER WHAT–is our calling.

      I often go to the Bible Gateway website. There are dozens of Scripture versions plus translations in many languages. Perhaps now is the time to go there and re-read the following: Revelation 3:16; Matthew 7:13-14 and 7:21-23; and especially Jesus’s “Sermon on the Mount.” Jesus does not call us to a “safe” life. He calls us to faith in Him and that faith provides us with the means to endure hardship, persecution, death with the knowledge that you have been a good and faithful servant of His.

      The entirety of Jesus’s sermon is found here: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5-7&version=NIV

      Each of us needs to pray now that if we say we love Christ we will follow him to the end. We must not lie to save our lives. We must not encourage others to lie. We must remain faithful.

      • gravenimage says

        Jan 26, 2016 at 11:43 pm

        Mae wrote:

        For those who comment, “It’s easy for you to say…you’re sitting safe and pretty in America,” we can respond, “Yes, you have a point. We do have it so much easier in America than just about anywhere else on earth.” That, however, is all the more reason to speak the truth while we can
        …………………….

        So true, Mae.

  31. mortimer says

    Jan 25, 2016 at 11:43 pm

    It is too easy to criticize Patriarch Gregory III Laham. We are not in his shoes. He knows the history of his very martyred church better than we and he knows what to expect if he makes what is perceived as a slight.

    We can speak out from the comfort of our Western democracies to pontificate what he should do.

    • Rinzai says

      Jan 26, 2016 at 12:13 am

      What’s the point of even existing in the middle east as a Christian, if you’re gonna constantly defend devils (muslims) and do their every wish? There isn’t one. This venerable patriarch is leading his flock to conversion to oh so venerable Islam, death, or slavery. Just like our leaders. If Arab christians had any integrity they would forget about their pseudo-nationalistic leanings and get the hell out of the Middle East in order to live in peace and freedom.

      • Atheist7 says

        Jan 26, 2016 at 10:48 am

        When Islam invades a country it never adapts to the culture of that country. As soon as Islam has a majority, it converts the country to the culture of Islam and makes life extremely difficult for the non-Muslim. So for the non-Muslim the choices are: 1. Be Killed 2. Convert to Islam 3. Leave. It may take a while, but Islam almost always wins. As I see it now, Islam is wining BIG.
        ISIS is a minor threat since even reality-challenged politically correct people can see that it is Evil. With this demon identified, nations can come together to stop ISIS. The job will get done. The more serious threat is the threat that is not so visible – the expanding Muslim population. This is the demon that has the potential to destroy our civilization.

    • DFD says

      Jan 26, 2016 at 6:40 pm

      Absolutely

  32. Hope says

    Jan 26, 2016 at 12:19 am

    If I live to be 200 years old I swear I will never understand just what it is about Dhimmitude that people find so fulfilling. It is sick and masochistic at the highest level. And so many people just can’t get enough of it.

    • DFD says

      Jan 26, 2016 at 6:54 pm

      Hope says “…Dhimmitude that people find so fulfilling. It is sick and masochistic at the highest level. And so many people just can’t get enough of it.”

      You may not believe it, but they didn’t want to become Dhimmies. Have you ever tried having your wife raped, your children murdered before your eyes? Have you ever had your fingers cut off, your bones broken, your face smashed in, and then being crucified? Or simply being shot, or beaten to death?

      Who the HELL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?! To condemn those people as sick and masochistic? And then haughtily proclaiming they can’t get enough of this!
      If you were faced with a fraction of the horror, you would not hang on to your faith, you’d sell your own mother! Otherwise you would not write what you wrote.

      • Hope says

        Jan 26, 2016 at 7:56 pm

        DFD, take it easy, will ya? The discussion amongst many people who have posted here is about the concept of dhimmitude in general. I was not specifically attacking any one ethnic group. I was merely commenting on how quickly and willingly people everywhere are giving way to Islam. I am sure the Arab Christians are in a dangerous predicament. However, people in America do not have to accept dhimmitude, yet they seem to be falling all over themselves to do just that. They seem to get some kind of weird satisfaction out of it and that is what baffles me.

        • DFD says

          Jan 27, 2016 at 5:42 am

          OK, OK, ‘got you the wrong way. Sorry about that.

          You said: “However, people in America do not have to accept dhimmitude, yet they seem to be falling all over themselves to do just that.”

          May I change that into: “…America & Europe…”? Than I agree. We have the same problem over here, though, not all people take it lying down. There’s resistance forming. And thank God for that.

      • j_not_a says

        Jan 27, 2016 at 11:15 pm

        The pandering and excuse making and sweeping under the carpet of all the atrocities the muslims are committing and have been committing in Europe for example especially in Sweden, Britain, France and Germany are positively breathtaking. The worse the muslims behave, the more the elite and politicians bend over backwards for these savages. It defies all belief. These so called leaders and law makers really are prepared to sacrifice their own people for some kind of self satisfaction of who can bow low enough for this human garbage. It is a kind of collective insanity that has never been seen before in history.

    • Kepha says

      Jan 27, 2016 at 11:00 am

      Hope, we’re living in a sick and masochistic age.

      • j_not_a says

        Jan 27, 2016 at 11:43 pm

        There is a term for the fatal disease afflicting the limousine liberals, champagne socialists, pie in the sky elites, bumbling politicians and the naive religious leaders and it’s called pathological altruism. They would rather their own people and even their own loved ones and themselves perish than turn away the foreign hordes of enemies who would take them over and do them in. It makes no sense, it’s pure insanity.

  33. Judaeogladiator says

    Jan 26, 2016 at 12:51 am

    Yes defend those that would ensnare you, and trash the Jews who grant you freedom and access . Judaeophobic the lot of them.

    • gravenimage says

      Jan 26, 2016 at 1:52 pm

      Not all of them, Judaeogladiator:

      “Meet the Arab Christians who want to fight for Israel”

      Army volunteers prefer to be part of a Jewish state than an Arab one

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/11321651/Meet-the-Arab-Christians-who-want-to-fight-for-Israel.html

      Mr Shalayan says his motivation is simple: Christians should assimilate in Israeli society and serve the country which protects them.

      His military service and support for the Jewish nation state bill is music to the ears of Mr Netanyahu and the Israeli armed forces, which sent out voluntary recruitment notices to Christians for the first time this year in an attempt to woo young Christians into military service.

  34. Sam says

    Jan 26, 2016 at 1:56 am

    This Greek Catholic patriarch is of Palestinian heritage living in Isreal.

  35. von says

    Jan 26, 2016 at 4:31 am

    The only cure for someone infected with the Islamic virus : Death. Prime minister Trudeau you are disgrace to the country, with the fast tracking of ” refugees” in Canada , the same kind of “refugees ” who practiced ” Taharrush ” the Islamic rape game on the women of Cologne on new years eve. You have a young daughter …………….good luck.

  36. TH says

    Jan 26, 2016 at 4:47 am

    We Catholics have a Pope from Argentina, who never looses an opportunity to grovel to muslims. However, one could find a certain excuse for his foolish statements and behavior due to the fact that is is obviously ignorant of Islam and the Middle East and is from a far away country, , but this Patriarch has lived all his life there and if he is ignorant of Islam, then it is culpable ignorance. If he is not speaking out of ignorance, then he is either a lunatic, who has lost his use of reason,, or he is lying and breaking the eight cammandment, a very serious sin, especially for a person with such authority.

  37. yohanan says

    Jan 26, 2016 at 5:56 am

    history of Melkite Greek Catholic Church in wiki-
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melkite_Greek_Catholic_Church

    Patriarch Gregory III Laham lives in Beirut, Lebanon –
    http://www.pgc-lb.org/gregorios

    https://now.mmedia.me/lb/en/Now-Syria/521419-syrian-patriarch-urges-christians-to-stay-in-syria

  38. JBubs says

    Jan 26, 2016 at 6:00 am

    It is one thing to dignify a person simply as being a person. It is quite different thing to defend a behavior of a person. I am sure his excellence is aware of this, so why the claptrap?

  39. robyt says

    Jan 26, 2016 at 6:17 am

    to me it does not work this way. the pope or others Christian clerics are not in power. the temporal power is not the same of the spiritual power. so any calls to the arms would have no effect. the pope can not do a war even ore defending himself, because he has no temporal power. so there is no a big deal in declaring a war which could not be fought.

  40. MAX says

    Jan 26, 2016 at 6:41 am

    He dont want to be killed.Thats why he say this!

  41. steve says

    Jan 26, 2016 at 7:04 am

    Holy imbecile batman! Christians agree with and defend the right for other religions or anyone to exist but that does not mean they defend their right to kill excepting self defense!

  42. TheDane says

    Jan 26, 2016 at 7:07 am

    Catholics do not represent Christ, since they are worshippers of sculls and saints! They also say that the Christian God and ‘allahu’ is the same. It is not so! Their ‘god’ is the Devil! I am a Christian, and I must admit that I do not love moslems! It is simply not possible for me. But I love my Christian brothers and sisters, and they are being persecuted and killed in the ME – for being Christians! Satan hates the light, and his followers are trying to eradicate this light in many moslem countries.

    No! We need to stand up for the persecuted Christians and remember that a Christian is killed – by a moslem – every 5. minutes in one of the evil, sick mohammedan countries!! It is really time for Christians to root out this evil, and I am hoping that Putin is the man for the job! I see no one else on the world stage that has the courage and the will to do it.

    Christian Arabs are my brothers and sisters. Not Catholic Arabs, and especially not demon-possessed moslems!!!

    • red rose says

      Jan 26, 2016 at 10:42 am

      What do you mean by “Catholic Arabs”? Christian is what separates people who believe in Christ from other religions. Do you understand that all religious groups who believe in Christ like Baptist, Lutheran, Protestant, Jehovah’s Witness, etc., all fall under the Christian faith? First, do understand that majority of Christians from the Middle East are NOT Arabs. Second, they (majority) are either Catholics or Orthodox. As a Catholic Chaldean from the Middle East, our faith starts with God, then Christ. Yes, we believe in saints and believe God has given powers to these extraordinary individuals. So, what’s wrong with that? Why do you hate the Catholics? Do you even know anything about them? Or the faith?

    • gravenimage says

      Jan 26, 2016 at 1:55 pm

      More anti-Catholic claptrap. You do know that the brave and stalwart Robert Spencer is a devout Catholic, don’t you?

    • Hope says

      Jan 26, 2016 at 5:40 pm

      I understand all of the points being made, and I respect the opinions of others. But right now we are all fighting on the same team, fighting for our lives and for the freedom of the civilized world. No fight in modern times has been more important than this one, it is right up there with defeating the Nazis. So we must all – Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, Jewish, Buddhist, Sikh, Pagan, Hindu, Atheist and Agnostic (forgive me if I’ve left anyone out) – we must all stick together to prevent the Islamic supremacists from taking over our countries and destroying our way of life. We are one, we are united, despite our differences!

      • gravenimage says

        Jan 26, 2016 at 11:45 pm

        Hear, hear!

  43. Atheist7 says

    Jan 26, 2016 at 8:09 am

    Christian Arabs are my brothers and sisters. Not Catholic Arabs, and especially not demon-possessed moslems!!!

    TheDane, I guess that if you have been trained to hate from the time that you were born, then you are effectively possessed by the hate demon. For all of us, what we think is strongly determined by what we have been told to think. As a child, the only view that we see is that which our parents give us. Always be mindful of “There – but for the grace of God – go I”.

  44. CJ says

    Jan 26, 2016 at 8:30 am

    In the Biblical story of Moses leading the Exodus, the newly freed slaves kept expressing their desire to go back to their servitude. God finally forced the Israelites to wander in the wilderness for 40 years before they were able to conquer the Promised Land — until the generation whose mentality had been shaped by slavery had passed away and only those who had spent the majority of their lives as free people were left.

    Whether you believe the Bible as a divinely-inspired book or not, the writer of this ancient story displays an amazing understanding of the human psyche. Most people who have spent their lives as slaves cannot escape their mental prison even after their bodies are freed of their physical bondage. It often takes years, perhaps even a generation, to overcome hundreds of years of Stockholm Syndrome. Notice that it has only been in the last few years that Israeli Christians have begun to throw off their Arab identity (which wasn’t really their identity at all, but one that was foisted on their ancestors) and embrace the freedom that living in the Middle East’s only non-Muslim country gives them.

    • somehistory says

      Jan 26, 2016 at 9:39 am

      All true. Modern man has come to find that some people who begin a life of crime at an early age, go to prison for a long time and are released, cannot cope with the freedom and the responsibility it brings. They don’t fit in, so they commit a crime that they know will cause them to be sent back to prison where they know how to get along.

      Freedom has a lot of responsibility, especially in the choices one makes. Some people would rather be enslaved/

    • gravenimage says

      Jan 26, 2016 at 1:58 pm

      Very true, CJ.

  45. pavlos says

    Jan 26, 2016 at 9:10 am

    It’s no wonder that the christen population is on a fast decline, there cowardly inability to defend the faith sickens me // in two decade there will be no christen left // what a waste of Christ sacrifice on the cross…….The devil beast posing as the Mahdi is gaining strength // the wages of sin, and the dogs of war have overwhelmed Christianity…..And again it’s eve that has brought the devil to us//…

    • somehistory says

      Jan 26, 2016 at 9:44 am

      You may recall that Christ asked, “When the Son of Man arrives, will He really find the faith on the earth? ( Luke 18:8)”
      He will, but it is a serious question each Christian should ask about himself/herself personally.

  46. Antonius says

    Jan 26, 2016 at 9:32 am

    That is true unfortunately the Christians calling themselves Arabs are nothing more than dhimmis, and that’s why we the Christian Maronites Catholics of Lebanon are not Arabs, refuse to be called as such, and have fought against the Arabic identity which was being imposed on us for decades. The world must know that Arabism is the other face of Islam and that the war on terror should include the destruction of pan-Arabism, and the return of the orgiginsl identities of those calling themselves Arabs today, i.e. Egyptian, Aramaic, Assyrian, Berber..

  47. DFD says

    Jan 26, 2016 at 10:05 am

    Wellington says

    Dear gravenimage,

    From the bottom of my heart I say to you that whatever abuse and travails you went through in previous years, in younger years, they did nothing to thwart your many attributes, indeed these negatives may have even enriched your inherent attributes, though at great cost. The final “product,” what you are today, is one I esteem very much. I wanted you to know this. As ever I remain,

    An admirer of yours,

    Wellington
    &
    DFD as cosignatory

    • gravenimage says

      Jan 26, 2016 at 10:34 am

      Thank you, DFD!

  48. red rose says

    Jan 26, 2016 at 10:32 am

    I am a Middle Eastern Christian who’s family escaped and is living in the US. Trust me, all ME Christians know the evil (Islam), but they cannot speak out. It is our duty in the West to protect them and speak the truth. The West must not let Muslims in the countries, but accept all Middle Eastern and Northern African Christians into the West. Where are our leaders in the West who can actually defend and help them?!? This is the injustice and one day they will answer to our Lord for keeping silent and not helping when they had the power and means.

    • DFD says

      Jan 26, 2016 at 12:14 pm

      SORRY, THAT LANDED IN THE WRONG REPLY BOX WITH HETHER!
      ———————————————————————————————–
      Here’s the one for you: ———–

      red rose says:

      “Where are our leaders in the West who can actually defend and help them?!?”
      – Answer: On holiday in Mecca. Even the pope (poop?) kisses that bloody book. In their hearts, the Mullahs must have laughed. One cannot help but wonder if the idiot, or traitor, noticed that none of them will kiss a Bible. And certainly not pray to our Lord in a Church. Our ‘leaders’, yeech!

      red rose says:
      “This is the injustice and one day they will answer to our Lord for keeping silent and not helping when they had the power and means.”
      – Answer: It looks as if that day is already here.

      —————-

      Dear Lady,

      I cannot do more than most, or all of us, here; but express my fullest sympathy and solidarity with the Christians in the ME and everywhere else. I know that the filth is referring to you derisively as “Nazarenes”, hence the letter “N” on the doors of Christian homes. Marking Christians for slaughter.

      Given your example, the horrendous martyrdom many of you suffered and suffer; all I can say is that as far as I am concerned, being called a “Nazarene” is the highest and most honourable title for any Christian today. And probably for a long time to come.

      God bless &
      The filth must be destroyed.

      PS: I hope that many posters/respondeds will confirm this as a reply so as to express their solidarity.

    • Cynthia says

      Jan 26, 2016 at 2:18 pm

      I disagree… And I would like to say stop using the Lord the Lord’s name in vain to guilt people into accepting evil in our country… I too have been in there and they will take and take and take until you have no more to give. I too have been down that road lady and I will tell you something …appreciate the freedoms of America and I stand by her 100% and I say do not let the devil on the ground and you should be ashamed that you are living in America and saying we should bring this evil in.Taqiyya. I know them and I know them well… And every school in Islamic country is brought up to hate Christians and Jews. I don’t feel guilty about defending myself or my country. You are not the first one from the Middle East that has used that line about the Lord. The men are cowards simply put. The man should stand up for their country and the their women as we Americans do. Look at the Americans that have been killed over there the American Christians… Did they give in… Did they deny the Lord… No. You’re either a Christian and you die for your faith or you bow to the devil.

      • DFD says

        Jan 26, 2016 at 3:55 pm

        To Cynthia,

        I wonder to whom your reply is addressed to, is it to Red Rose?

        If it is, then I am somewhat perplexed. She is not complaining about your country, nor condemning it, on the contrary. But she is calling on Christians and the governments of supposedly Christian countries to help.

        Is that calling the Lord’s name in vain? What about the other Christian victims of Muslims, worldwide, are they also calling the Lord’s name in vain when they call out for help? Is that the Taqyia you are accusing her of? The ME Christians fought the invaders from day one, those who can, still fight. Though of course, western help is denied to them. After all, they are not “moderate” Muslims fighting secular dictators, being approved of by our “ally” Saudi Arabia… The Christians in the ME are outnumbered somewhere between 60 and 95 to one…

        Are you sure you are replying to Red Rose?

        Those cowards… You call them, then you say as you Americans do… Like in San Bernadino and other places? Have you noticed how Muslims always attack when they are either stronger than their individual opponent, or greater in numbers? The Christians whom you wish to die – rejoice they do that, they are even slaughtered on the beaches, with the water turning red… What is this according to your reply? Cowardice, Taqyia? Many get tortured and crucified, “all that the Muslims ask to stop” is to deny the Lord. They don’t, they prefer death, most of them do. Is that Taqyia or cowardice?

        Your reply is utterly stunning. Where is she trying to make you feel guilty? She is calling on our governments to help against the Muslims. Is that Taqyia?

        What about the early Christians, when they were slaughtered and called for help, in the Arenas for instance, where they cowards? Where they committing Taqyia? According to what you wrote, yes. What about the Christians in the concentration camps and in the Gulags, according to your reply they were cowards and deserved to die. Perhaps you should write to your congressman/women and demand that the words of Pastor Niemöller be removed from the walls of your senate, you know, that cowardly Taqyian who wrote: “First they came for the….”

        Incredible. Stunning. Why such hate attack against a Christian calling for help?

        However, given what you write, I am sure that you approve of US government policy, for every 2,000 Muslim “refugees” 50 Christians are accepted, the others are being sent back to torture and murder.

        Perhaps you can elaborate on your reply a bit more.
        And hopefully your reply was meant for somebody else.

  49. harbidoll says

    Jan 26, 2016 at 10:44 am

    Its easy for Christians to stand up to muslims in Israel cuz the Jews got their back. Especially if they are in the army.

  50. Heather says

    Jan 26, 2016 at 11:28 am

    Muslims, brainwashed into hate from birth. What a sick, retard that Mohamad creature must have been. I was watching some videos the other day, and I think it’s in Pakistan or India where 100’s of girls are being trained in the Koran, from a male ‘teacher’ who sits behind a screen (of course). They are covered in black from head to toe and only study the Koran, nothing else. Day in, day out. Then they’ll ‘teach’ other girls and so on and so on. Some of their neighbours go to ‘normal’ schools and are shunned by the black wearing fanatics.
    Beware of persons who only read one book.

    • DFD says

      Jan 26, 2016 at 12:07 pm

      red rose says:

      “Where are our leaders in the West who can actually defend and help them?!?”
      – Answer: On holiday in Mecca. Even the pope (poop?) kisses that bloody book. In their hearts, the Mullahs must have laughed. One cannot help but wonder if the idiot, or traitor, noticed that none of them will kiss a Bible. And certainly not pray to our Lord in a Church. Our ‘leaders’, yeech!

      red rose says:
      “This is the injustice and one day they will answer to our Lord for keeping silent and not helping when they had the power and means.”
      – Answer: It looks as if that day is already here.

      —————-

      Dear Lady,

      I cannot do more than most, or all of us, here; but to express my fullest sympathy and solidarity with the Christians in the ME and everywhere else. I know that the filth is referring to you derisively as “Nazarenes”, hence the letter “N” on the doors of Christian homes. Marking Christians for slaughter.

      Given your example, the horrendous martyrdom many of you suffered and suffer; all I can say is that as far as I am concerned, being called a “Nazarene” is the highest and most honourable title for any Christian today. And probably for a long time to come.

      God bless &
      The filth must be destroyed.

      PS: I hope that many posters/respondeds will confirm this as a reply so as to express their solidarity.

  51. b.c.terry says

    Jan 26, 2016 at 11:36 am

    “Please sir, may i have another”

  52. Hummer says

    Jan 26, 2016 at 2:03 pm

    From 1638-1822 AD ten Patriarchs of Constantinople were killed by Turks. Certainly there is a lesson in that to be relearned unfortunately as obviously they haven’t.

  53. Mark A says

    Jan 26, 2016 at 3:55 pm

    These people have been dhimmis for so long that it has become ingrained behaviour.

    Sounds like the Stockholm Syndrome is fully operational at the top levels of this church.

  54. UNCLE VLADDI says

    Jan 26, 2016 at 5:51 pm

    Re: “Siding with killers against their victims isn’t Christian charity by any rational standard” – sadly, that’s exactly what Jesus “taught” by his death by the Romans:

    “Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do.”

    Ifnorance is an excuse for murder?! A real god would have been able to explain in advance that which they were about to do so they would have understood not to do it in the first place.

  55. Lucy says

    Jan 26, 2016 at 8:17 pm

    I know someone a middle east Christian pretty well. He’s like a whipped dog. He’s a complete dhimmi. I think he has Stockholm syndrome. http://counsellingresource.com/lib/therapy/self-help/stockholm/

    I keep hoping he will have a George McFly moment.

    • dumbledoresarmy says

      Jan 27, 2016 at 6:09 am

      Lucy

      if you haven’t read Rev Dr Mark Durie’s “The Third Choice: Islam, Dhimmitude and Freedom”, do so.

      And then read the companion booklet, which is intended for pastoral use with 1/ persons who – or whose forebears – have lived as Dhimmis under the Muslim boot and 2/ persons who have left Islam and become Christians.

      There is some powerful stuff there.
      *Anyone* in any Christian community who has to do with persons who have lived as Dhimmis – or whose forebears did – or with persons who have left Islam, needs to read those two books.

      It really is, on the macro scale, exactly like what we see in the case of victims of severe and sustained spousal or familial abuse, or children ensnared by the worst kind of pedophile, or girls ensnared by the type of pimp who recruits for an illegal S & M brothel, or the victims of satanic cults (of which Islam is, I think, the largest and longest-running and most ‘successful’ example). People are deep in denial; I think in the case of Dhimmis or children of Dhimmis, there is probably even stuff like repressed memories or multiple personality disorder going on.\, because of the extent of the psychic trauma. People cannot name the source and agent of their suffering or identify it as Evil and wrong.

      • dumbledoresarmy says

        Jan 27, 2016 at 6:16 am

        Lucy: if you are a Christian: pray for him.

        Pray, pray, pray. Pray every day. Pray that the evil spiritual influence of the Dhimma pact that binds him will be broken and removed from him. Pray for him to be set free from every form of bondage, spiritual and psychological. I might sound like I am using overly dramatic language, but…he is, in a sense, under a curse, or at least, under constant spiritual attack. Pray for his deliverance; pray that this coming Easter the light of the risen Lord will simply *blaze* out into his life and drive all the darkness away.

        Lent begins soon. Do you observe Lent? Even if you don’t normally do so – perhaps this Lent you could fast and pray *on behalf of your Middle Eastern Christian friend*.

        • Kepha says

          Jan 27, 2016 at 11:13 am

          @DDA: Again, lots of good comments.

          As someone who stands in the Puritan tradition, I do not observe Lent. However, I do pray for Christians and the work of the Gospel worldwide.

          Further, I will again maintain that the liberty we enjoy in the Western world is deeply informed by the Christian (and, before it, Jewish) understanding that rulers are accountable. I cannot help but note that the original arguments for limited government, political compact, and the political supremacy of law in the Western world were part of an extended 16th-17th century argument over the true meaning of First Samuel 8.

          It is a lie that evolutionary materialism has liberated humanity. It’s political artefact is not a system of limited government protecting a range of liberties, but 20th century totalitarianism.

        • Kepha says

          Jan 27, 2016 at 11:19 am

          My 11:13 comment cut off too early. I also think the Middle Eastern Christian desperately need the prayers of all their brethren everywhere. Patriarch Gregory is not a fool, but a man literally living on a knife’s edge. I will not condemn the Middle Eastern Christians for being cautious, given the environment in which they must live.

          A lot of us in the Anglosphere (including us Anglo-Saxons-by-Osmosis) tend to take our liberties for granted, and are quick to condemn those who’ve gotten their liberties beaten out of them by overwhelming force. Such things should make us not judgmental, but more vigilant for what we have.

FacebookYoutubeTwitterLog in

Subscribe to the Jihad Watch Daily Digest

You will receive a daily mailing containing links to the stories posted at Jihad Watch in the last 24 hours.
Enter your email address to subscribe.

Please wait...

Thank you for signing up!
If you are forwarding to a friend, please remove the unsubscribe buttons first, as they my accidentally click it.

Subscribe to all Jihad Watch posts

You will receive immediate notification.
Enter your email address to subscribe.
Note: This may be up to 15 emails a day.

Donate to JihadWatch
FrontPage Mag

Search Site

Translate

The Team

Robert Spencer in FrontPageMag
Robert Spencer in PJ Media

Articles at Jihad Watch by
Robert Spencer
Hugh Fitzgerald
Christine Douglass-Williams
Andrew Harrod
Jamie Glazov
Daniel Greenfield

Contact Us

Terror Attacks Since 9/11

Archives

  • 2020
    • December
    • November
    • October
    • September
    • August
    • July
    • June
    • May
    • April
    • March
    • February
    • January
  • 2019
    • December
    • November
    • October
    • September
    • August
    • July
    • June
    • May
    • April
    • March
    • February
    • January
  • 2018
    • December
    • November
    • October
    • September
    • August
    • July
    • June
    • May
    • April
    • March
    • February
    • January
  • 2017
    • December
    • November
    • October
    • September
    • August
    • July
    • June
    • May
    • April
    • March
    • February
    • January
  • 2016
    • December
    • November
    • October
    • September
    • August
    • July
    • June
    • May
    • April
    • March
    • February
    • January
  • 2015
    • December
    • November
    • October
    • September
    • August
    • July
    • June
    • May
    • April
    • March
    • February
    • January
  • 2014
    • December
    • November
    • October
    • September
    • August
    • July
    • June
    • May
    • April
    • March
    • February
    • January
  • 2013
    • December
    • November
    • October
    • September
    • August
    • July
    • June
    • May
    • April
    • March
    • February
    • January
  • 2012
    • December
    • November
    • October
    • September
    • August
    • July
    • June
    • May
    • April
    • March
    • February
    • January
  • 2011
    • December
    • November
    • October
    • September
    • August
    • July
    • June
    • May
    • April
    • March
    • February
    • January
  • 2010
    • December
    • November
    • October
    • September
    • August
    • July
    • June
    • May
    • April
    • March
    • February
    • January
  • 2009
    • December
    • November
    • October
    • September
    • August
    • July
    • June
    • May
    • April
    • March
    • February
    • January
  • 2008
    • December
    • November
    • October
    • September
    • August
    • July
    • June
    • May
    • April
    • March
    • February
    • January
  • 2007
    • December
    • November
    • October
    • September
    • August
    • July
    • June
    • May
    • April
    • March
    • February
    • January
  • 2006
    • December
    • November
    • October
    • September
    • August
    • July
    • June
    • May
    • April
    • March
    • February
    • January
  • 2005
    • December
    • November
    • October
    • September
    • August
    • July
    • June
    • May
    • April
    • March
    • February
    • January
  • 2004
    • December
    • November
    • October
    • September
    • August
    • July
    • June
    • May
    • April
    • March
    • February
    • January
  • 2003
    • December
    • November
    • October
    • March

All Categories

You Might Like

Learn more about RevenueStripe...

Recent Comments

  • Crusades Were Right on New study reveals that Muslim religiosity strongly linked to hatred towards the West
  • Naildriver on Uighur leader: ‘We’re actually quite worried’ about what Biden might let China get away with
  • Crusades Were Right on Canadian Mental Health Association studies Muslim women’s mental health due to ‘discrimination’ and ‘hate crimes’
  • Crusades Were Right on Muslim cleric: ‘We welcomed the takeover of ISIS because they wanted to implement the Sharia’
  • curious george on Israel At A Crossroads?

Popular Categories

dhimmitude Sharia Jihad in the U.S ISIS / Islamic State / ISIL Iran Free Speech

Robert Spencer FaceBook Page

Robert Spencer Twitter

Robert Spencer twitter

Robert Spencer YouTube Channel

Books by Robert Spencer

Jihad Watch® is a registered trademark of Robert Spencer in the United States and/or other countries - Site Developed and Managed by Free Speech Defense

Content copyright Jihad Watch, Jihad Watch claims no credit for any images posted on this site unless otherwise noted. Images on this blog are copyright to their respective owners. If there is an image appearing on this blog that belongs to you and you do not wish for it appear on this site, please E-mail with a link to said image and it will be promptly removed.

Our mailing address is: David Horowitz Freedom Center, P.O. Box 55089, Sherman Oaks, CA 91499-1964

loading Cancel
Post was not sent - check your email addresses!
Email check failed, please try again
Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email.