In PJ Media today I discuss more foolish wrongheadedness and disastrously suicidal naivete from today’s Catholic Church:
The contemporary Catholic Church has wholeheartedly endorsed the ideas that Islam is a religion of peace and that Muslims are the first victims of jihad terrorism.
This proposition is enforced as an iron dogma, the one non-negotiable point in today’s comfortable suburban Church: anything goes, everything is winked at, moral teaching is discarded or ignored left and right — but whisper that Islamic jihadists point to the texts and teachings of Islam to justify violence and supremacism, and you’ll be the new Jan Hus.
A recent piece in the Los Angeles archdiocesan newspaper entitled “Our Muslim Brothers and Sisters” is just one example of the endless barrage of nonsense that comes from the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops on this issue — but this example is noteworthy in being particularly counterfactual. It spends a great deal of time admonishing us that the first victims of Islamic jihad terror groups are other Muslims. Its author, Fr. Ronald Rolheiser, apparently believes — along with Barack Obama and numerous other Western leaders — that this proves that the Islamic State, al-Qaeda, and the rest are un-Islamic.
In fact, this point only establishes that they believe their Muslim opponents to be un-Islamic — and because Islam mandates death for heresy and apostasy, they kill those opponents.
Rolheiser also says:
But the Muslim religion is not to blame here. There is nothing inherent in either the Koran or in Islam itself that morally or religiously undergirds this kind of violence.
Apparently Rolheiser has overlooked many passages from the Qur’an, including:
2:191-193: “And slay them wherever you come upon them, and expel them from where they expelled you; persecution is more grievous than slaying. But fight them not by the Holy Mosque until they should fight you there; then, if they fight you, slay them — such is the recompense of unbelievers, but if they give over, surely Allah is All-forgiving, All-compassionate. Fight them, till there is no persecution and the religion is Allah’s; then if they give over, there shall be no enmity save for evildoers.”4:89: “They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of Allah; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper.”
5:33: “This is the recompense of those who fight against Allah and His Messenger, and hasten about the earth, to do corruption there: they shall be slaughtered, or crucified, or their hands and feet shall alternately be struck off; or they shall be banished from the land. That is a degradation for them in this world; and in the world to come awaits them a mighty chastisement.”
8:12: “When thy Lord was revealing to the angels, ‘I am with you; so confirm the believers. I shall cast into the unbelievers’ hearts terror; so smite above the necks, and smite every finger of them!’”
8:39: “Fight them, till there is no persecution and the religion is Allah’s entirely; then if they give over, surely Allah sees the things they do.”
8:60: “Make ready for them whatever force and strings of horses you can, to terrify thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others besides them that you know not; Allah knows them. And whatsoever you expend in the way of Allah shall be repaid you in full; you will not be wronged.”
9:5: “Then, when the sacred months are drawn away, slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them, and confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent, and perform the prayer, and pay the alms, then let them go their way; Allah is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.”
9:29: “Fight those who believe not in Allah and the Last Day and do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden — such men as practise not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book — until they pay the tribute out of hand and have been humbled.”
9:111: “Allah has bought from the believers their selves and their possessions against the gift of Paradise; they fight in the way of Allah; they kill, and are killed; that is a promise binding upon Allah in the Torah, and the Gospel, and the Koran; and who fulfils his covenant truer than Allah? So rejoice in the bargain you have made with Him; that is the mighty triumph.”
9:123: “O believers, fight the unbelievers who are near to you; and let them find in you a harshness; and know that Allah is with the godfearing.”
47:4: “When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then, when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds; then set them free, either by grace or ransom, till the war lays down its loads. So it shall be; and if Allah had willed, He would have avenged Himself upon them; but that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will not send their works astray.”
Think the Bible is full of violence, too? Sure, but there is actually nothing in the Bible remotely equivalent to the Qur’an’s open-ended and universal commands to wage war against and subjugate unbelievers. Nor will you find calls to violence being taught from authoritative sources of Judeo-Christian religion.
But you will find them coming from the authoritative sources in Sunni Islam, the schools of Sunni jurisprudence (madhahib):
Shafi’i school: A Shafi’i manual of Islamic law that was certified in 1991 by the clerics at Al-Azhar University, one of the leading authorities in the Islamic world, as a reliable guide to Sunni orthodoxy, stipulates about jihad that “the caliph makes war upon Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians … until they become Muslim or pay the non-Muslim poll tax.” It adds a comment by Sheikh Nuh Ali Salman, a Jordanian expert on Islamic jurisprudence: the caliph wages this war only “provided that he has first invited [Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians] to enter Islam in faith and practice, and if they will not, then invited them to enter the social order of Islam by paying the non-Muslim poll tax (jizya) … while remaining in their ancestral religions.” (‘Umdat al-Salik, o9.8).Hanafi school: A Hanafi manual of Islamic law repeats the same injunctions. It insists that people must be called to embrace Islam before being fought, “because the Prophet so instructed his commanders, directing them to call the infidels to the faith.” It emphasizes that jihad must not be waged for economic gain, but solely for religious reasons: from the call to Islam “the people will hence perceive that they are attacked for the sake of religion, and not for the sake of taking their property, or making slaves of their children, and on this consideration it is possible that they may be induced to agree to the call, in order to save themselves from the troubles of war.”
However, “if the infidels, upon receiving the call, neither consent to it nor agree to pay capitation tax [jizya], it is then incumbent on the Muslims to call upon God for assistance, and to make war upon them, because God is the assistant of those who serve Him, and the destroyer of His enemies, the infidels, and it is necessary to implore His aid upon every occasion; the Prophet, moreover, commands us so to do.” (Al-Hidayah, II.140)
Maliki school: Ibn Khaldun (1332-1406), a pioneering historian and philosopher, was also a Maliki legal theorist. In his renowned Muqaddimah, the first work of historical theory, he notes that “in the Muslim community, the holy war is a religious duty, because of the universalism of the Muslim mission and (the obligation to) convert everybody to Islam either by persuasion or by force.” In Islam, the person in charge of religious affairs is concerned with “power politics,” because Islam is “under obligation to gain power over other nations.”
Hanbali school: The great medieval theorist of what is commonly known today as radical or fundamentalist Islam, Ibn Taymiyya (Taqi al-Din Ahmad Ibn Taymiyya, 1263-1328), was a Hanbali jurist. He directed that “since lawful warfare is essentially jihad and since its aim is that the religion is God’s entirely and God’s word is uppermost, therefore according to all Muslims, those who stand in the way of this aim must be fought.”
This is also taught by modern-day scholars of Islam.
Majid Khadduri was an Iraqi scholar of Islamic law of international renown. In his book War and Peace in the Law of Islam, which was published in 1955 and remains one of the most lucid and illuminating works on the subject, Khadduri says this about jihad:
The state which is regarded as the instrument for universalizing a certain religion must perforce be an ever expanding state. The Islamic state, whose principal function was to put God’s law into practice, sought to establish Islam as the dominant reigning ideology over the entire world. … The jihad was therefore employed as an instrument for both the universalization of religion and the establishment of an imperial world state. (P. 51)
Imran Ahsan Khan Nyazee, Assistant Professor on the Faculty of Shari’ah and Law of the International Islamic University in Islamabad. In his 1994 book The Methodology of Ijtihad, he quotes the twelfth century Maliki jurist Ibn Rushd:
Muslim jurists agreed that the purpose of fighting with the People of the Book … is one of two things: it is either their conversion to Islam or the payment of jizyah.
Nyazee concludes:
This leaves no doubt that the primary goal of the Muslim community, in the eyes of its jurists, is to spread the word of Allah through jihad, and the option of poll-tax [jizya] is to be exercised only after subjugation [of non-Muslims].
Blissfully or willfully ignorant of all this and much more, Rolheiser says:
It’s time to establish a greater solidarity with Islam.
With Islam, mind you — not with Muslims who genuinely reject all this and want to live in peace with non-Muslims as equals in a secular society without trying to gain hegemony over them….
Read the rest here.

jihad3tracker says
***** CLICK ON THE LINK AND READ HOW COMMENTERS FEEL ABOUT THIS CLUELESS PRELATE’S MALARKEY ***** I looked at about 30 and they were ALL EITHER VERY CONDEMNATORY OR POLITELY DISMISSIVE OF HIS IGNORANCE.
One fellow (“Uncle Vlad”) was so pissed off that he posted the contact path to Rolheiser. If you have a few spare minutes tonight and want to ;push this jihad-enabler even farther back against the wall of reality, send him Robert’s comprehensive refutation here, and a few choice — but civilized words of your own.
Mirren10 says
Well, I’m in the UK, but I sent this tit-head an email with the relevant quotes from the koran, the link to this article, and the suggestion he might actually consider *reading* the canonical Islamic texts before shooting off his ignorant and ill-informed gob. ( Actually, I was icily polite.)
UNCLE VLADDI says
Thanks for noticing LOL! That link is: http://ronrolheiser.com/contact/
Or (even more directly): info@ronrolheiser.com
I was also pissed off enough to refute his entire screed, paragraph by paragraph:
Fr. Roflmfao: I’ve never seen so many entirely fact-free opinions presented as facts. You are quite the accomplished lying panderer!
Let me tear you a new one, point-by-point, paragraph by paragraph:
1.) People aren’t becoming “paranoid” (which is a mental illness where one is scared of everything all the time for no reason what so ever) about islam and muslims – they are becoming educated as to what the Qur’an really says. Perhaps you should take a hint and actually risk your own prejudices by opening one up.
2.) In the name of Truth, there is something inherent in Islam itself that’s responsible for this kind of violence… and it’s not there because of our opinions.
3.) This is true, and islam’s own Qur’an is what paints all muslims with the same brush, because it alone is the authority which defines what a “muslim” is and is not, and what he or she thinks and does, and how they do not think and do not act. And unlike Christianity, islam itself is entirely depraved and endorses same.
4.) Hitler himself spoke for islam, not Christianity:
“The only religion I respect is Islam. The only prophet I admire is the Prophet Muhammad.”
– Adolf Hitler (from “The Mysterious Achmed Huber: Friend to Hitler”)
“Had Charles Martel not been victorious at Poitiers … then we should in all probability have been converted to Mohammedanism, that cult which glorifies the heroism and which opens up the seventh Heaven to the bold warrior alone. Then the Germanic races would have conquered the world. Christianity alone prevented them from doing so!”
– Adolf Hitler
“The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity … The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.
I’ll make these damned parsons feel the power of the state in a way they would have never believed possible. For the moment, I am just keeping my eye upon them: if I ever have the slightest suspicion that they are getting dangerous, I will shoot the lot of them. This filthy reptile raises its head whenever there is a sign of weakness in the State, and therefore it must be stamped on. We have no sort of use for a fairy story invented by the Jews.”
[Quoted from Hitler’s “Table Talks” with Bormann, in Hitler: A Study in Tyranny by Allan Bullock.]
Mein Kampf was written in 1923. In 1926, the Indian Muslim activist al-Mashriqi met with Hitler in Germany and reported that:
“I was astounded when he [Hitler] told me that he knew about my Tazkirah. The news flabbergasted me. . . I found him very congenial and piercing. He discussed Islamic Jihad with me in details.”
And Mashriqi would continue to have important communications with Hitler after that time:
“In 1930 I sent him my Isharat concerning the Khaksar movement with a picture of a spade-bearer Khaksar at the end of that book. In 1933 he started his Spade Movement.”
There has always been a warm relationship between muslims and Germans … at least a dozen muslim volunteer groups fought in various SS divisions in ww2… the Handschar division, the Skanderbeg division, Freies Arabien legion, various Azerbaijan (azeri) and Turkmenistani regiments…
After meeting with Yasser Arafat’s Uncle, the Grand Mufti of ‘palestine,’ Haj-Amin al-Husseini (who was blonde and had blue eyes) Adolf Hitler incorrectly revised his racist notions to include Arabs as the descendants of the Romans, rather than the cousins of the Jews.
Did we sympathize with Nazis during WWII, or did we oppose them?
5.) Just because the Corleones and Gambinos gang up against the Tattaglia Families, doesn’t mean they are poor victims of the Mafia.
ISIS, al-Queada and Boko Haram ARE THE TRUE ISLAM… a fact you’d be able to admit to, had you the courage to read the Qur’an.
6.) Muslims are neither sincere nor religious. Islam was deliberately and very specifically designed to spread fear and hatred. Islam is not a faith at all, since muslims have no faith in their own crime-god’s desires nor power to enforce even its own most basic us-against-you and might-makes-right tenets. At worst, all ‘real’ religions only say:
“Obey our silly rules, or GOD (/’the gods’) will get you!”
But ONLY islam says:
“Obey our silly rules, or WE will get you (‘for god’)!”
A forced faith isn’t a faith at all – it’s only criminal extortion.
7.) There is nothing either religions nor moral in islam or the Qur’an, BECAUSE it inherently endorses and commands all that violence. If you had dared to read it, you’d know enough not to lie so much now.
8.) Islam has no good examples. Houston Smith would realize islam is a violent aberration created by a psychopath to excuse his own crimes.
9.) The only courtesy we owe anyone is the Truth; it doesn’t matter if Hitler pretended he was a Christian (he did not, see above) because the Christian canon does not endorse, and specifically opposes, what he did. If a criminal pretends to commit his crimes in your name, it doesn’t matter because unless you told him to (as Muhammad did) then you can’t be blamed, whether by one invoking “courtesy” or not.
We do not owe criminals out to extort, enslave, rob and murder us any “courtesies” whatsoever, beyond exposing them as criminals.
10.) The word islam means Submit to extortion, not to surrender to god (except that islam’s sick version of a god is an extortive slaver).
And muslims do not have any faith, nor do they pray for responsibility – islam and it’s “allah” is only their excuse to remain irresponsibly wrong. And, as for hospitality – it applies only to other muslims – all infidels are sentenced to “Death By Muslim!” simply for our “crime” of not being muslims ourselves! All of which terms and conditions are in the Qur’an.
11.) There is no possible “interpretation” of islam allowed, because the Qur’an correctly declares that it is clear and easy to read, and contains no metaphors. The metaphoric so-called “Gates of Ijtihad” (personal interpretation) have been ‘closed’ for over 1,000 years, according to all the most official islamic muslim scholars themselves.
The word ‘radical’ means ‘goes to the root of’ and one can not be an
‘extremist’ without something to base that extremity on; for instance, some Christians are ‘extremely’ loving, as advised by the Bibles, while many muslims are ‘extremely’ hateful, as the Qur’an commands.
Islam was a self-serving ideology of crime created by Muhammad.
12.) Islam is the cause of muslim terrorism. We should not show any solidarity at all with the global crime-gang which causes such terror.
13.) Islam is completely immoral and the muslims worship Satan.
14.) NO part of Christianity asks pre-forgiveness of one’s murderers except for Christ’s own death, which was supposed to eliminate it.
Salvation absolution and forgiveness only comes when one repents of one’s crimes and seeks to offer restitution to one’s victims, not before.
Islam does not endorse such behavior and neither should you on its behalf. REPENT of your lies, “Father” or remain forever DAMNED.
nacazo says
Useful idiots.
Michael Copeland says
YUSUF
When I convert, I’ll choose the name Yusuf,
The one I’ve always liked so well.
I’d also really like to have it linked with Idi,
An admirable leader, true to tell.
Then remember Otman, such a wise old scholar.
Famous name! I’ll add it if I can.
So put them all together,
Say it loud in every weather,
I’m your Yusuf ul-Idi Otman,
Yes, your Yusuf ul-Idi Otman.
gravenimage says
Brilliant.
Mirren10 says
*Very* nice, Michael ! 🙂
Wakeup says
It’s like some sort of infection I don’t know what is happening to the church. The Sunday after the killings in France my vicar actually stood there and said she would like to put the islamic crescent and star on tweets in addition to the French flag people were posting to show solidarity with muslims. I just got up and left and have not been to church since.
At school the first muslim I met a somali kid, the school bully, beat me up really badly he later went on to have a career as a gangster and drug dealer. When I worked for London Underground they blew up my station then when I change station, I was spat at by four somalis because I complained about them knocking a heavily pregnant (non muslim) woman off her feet as the barged through the ticket barrier without paying, the police later cought them and they were asylem seekers, nothing happened.
Solitary how about some solidarity for me.
Judi says
The Rabbi at my synagogue suggested we reach out to the Syrian refugees and donate money as we were refugees once. Needless to say I didn’t contribute any money. However, a joint effort from all the synagogues collected a total of £15,000!!
Shane says
It’s okay to provide support for the Muslim refugees, just don’t allow them to immigrate into the West. Let they find shelter in Muslim countries.
Angemon says
Wakeup posted:
“It’s like some sort of infection I don’t know what is happening to the church. ”
Pathological Altruism.
Shane says
Treason, suicide, cowardliness! Christians have to fight to survive our hostile Islamic enemies.
Kepha says
Wakeup, the first problem I saw is that your vicar is a “she”. Every church that ordains women starts going downhill doctrinally, ethically, and in membership pretty quickly. Paul the apostle wrote clearly in the Corinthian and pastoral epistles that such a thing was not to be. I’d urge you to go back to church, but find one that tries to be true to the Scriptures instead of falling for every fashion of the world. The way you write, I wonder if you’re Anglican. It’s a pity that that communion, which had such a rich heritage otherwise, should be working so hard to jettison it all for the approval of its cultured despisers.
Yes, there should be solidarity with Muslims. We are all sinners worthy of God’s harshest judgment, and have no hope except through Christ’s atoning sacrifice and resurrection from the dead. We’re all of us, Jew and Greek (the only two “races” Paul knew), sinners in need of alvation. Muslims need that good news of salvation, too. They do not need to be confirmed in their theology which already has shown itself dangerous to others and to themselves. Hence, the solidarity that I would urge is probably not the same one your vicar-ette seemed to have had in mind.
Mirren10 says
”Wakeup, the first problem I saw is that your vicar is a “she”. Every church that ordains women starts going downhill doctrinally, ethically, and in membership pretty quickly.”
The Pope is a man, the hierarchy of the RC Church is a man, the priest this article is about is a man. As far as I’m aware, the RC Church hasn’t begun ordaining women.
Foolishness and suicidal stupidity is not confined to any one sex.
By the way, I’m curious; is the authority of Paul the only reason you abhor the ordination of women ?
Mirren10 says
Oops, that should be; ”the hierarchy of the RC Church *are men*.”
keith says
… Oh yeah..!! … the Catholic Church has lots of credibility… Voodoo is more believable than the Catholic Church..!!
Azacque says
Jesus will take care of this mess, it is His specialty.
Vyx says
This is just insane. The only thing that I think can possibly be motivating this “togetherness” of Catholicism and Islam is the Catholic wish of more $$$. Which makes no sense, since the majority of Muslims seem to be dirt poor.
Except of course for the money they spend on ammo and suicide belts.
Christianblood says
Most Catholic/Protestant ‘Christians’ in America and the in the West and their secular ‘liberal democratic’ governments have deep sympathies for muslims but intentionally ignore the plight of persecuted Christians in the M.E. and beyond. It has been documented below that the U.S. Christian Groups Support Muslim Refugees while Ignoring Persecuted Christians in the M.E. and in the islamic world. Please click on the link below to read more:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/261302/us-christian-groups-support-muslim-refugees-ignore-raymond-ibrahim
Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY) says
The narrator of the Quran (Allah, presumably) says the Quran is clear (6:114, 11:1, 16:89, 41:3). And yet, how are we to understand this above-quoted passage?:
8:12: When thy Lord was revealing to the angels, ‘I am with you; so confirm the believers. I shall cast into the unbelievers’ hearts terror; so smite above the necks, and smite every finger of them!’
This is not even a complete sentence giving us instructions, but only a subordinate “when” clause. There is no main verb. Allah is with angels, and tells the angels to “confirm the believers”. What does it mean to “confirm” someone? According to Allah, all this smiting is to be done not by humans but by the angels whom Allah is giving orders to.
This suggests a syllogism: (1) Allah says the Quran is clear. (2) Quran 8:12 is not clear. (3) Allah know that 8:12 is not clear (because Allah is omniscient). Therefore, (4) Allah lies.
P.S. http://islam101.com/terror/verse8_12.htm , which misquotes and attempts to explain 8:12, says that Muhammad suffered torture for 13 years in the city of Makkah (a.k.a. Mecca). What was this torture?
gravenimage says
Robert Spencer in PJ Media: Roman Catholic Archdiocese of L.A. Wants ‘Greater Solidarity with Islam’
…………………
Suicidal madness to want “greater solidarity” with those who want to murder you.
That this moral idiot says this in southern California just a few weeks after the San Bernardino Jihad massacre is especially appalling.
And he had this to say just days before the massacre:
“Fr. Ron Rolheiser, OMI: ‘Our Muslim Brothers and Sisters’”
http://www.omiusa.org/index.php/2015/11/23/fr-ron-rolheiser-omi-our-muslim-brothers-and-sisters/
But he wouldn’t have considered this ironic, as he makes clear in the text:
“Terrorist attacks, like the recent ones in Paris and Mali, call for more, not less, sympathy for true Muslims. It’s time to establish a greater solidarity with Islam, notwithstanding extremist terrorism.”
So he makes is clear that an increased body count in his own backyard makes no difference to him–or worse, it makes him increasingly fond of the murderers.
But this is nothing new for Father Ronald Rolheiser–he has been calling for “solidarity” with Jihadists for at least ten years now:
“Standing on New Borders – Islam”
http://ronrolheiser.com/standing-on-new-borders-islam/#.VoxUTPkrLIU
John C. Barile says
Let him go over to the Islamic State.and preach “solidarity” with them there–if he really believes what he says. Of course, he’s too smug and comfortable to do that.
John C. Barile says
Let him go to Syria, Iraq, Lebanon or Turkey if he really cares about refugees
Matt says
I am a Roman Catholic. Many of your replies I find disturbing, but it is your right. Jesus tells us to turn the other cheek, we are taught to pray for our enemies that they may find a better way. I am a sinner. I believe the only way we will ever end the disgust of Islam is to convert them. Otherwise there will never be peace. I know it is a long shot, but the power of Christ could prevail.
Christianblood says
Matt says:
(…Jesus tells us to turn the other cheek, we are taught to pray for our enemies that they may find a better way…)
Matt, Does this mean Christians have to ignore the persecution of other Christians who live in the muslim world? If you want to show love, why not show love to the suffering Christians? Why show love only to their muslim persecutors? This is not love but hypocritical stupidity and Jesus will not accept such hypocritical fools whether Catholic or Protestant.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/261302/us-christian-groups-support-muslim-refugees-ignore-raymond-ibrahim
Kathy Brown, Esq. says
Matt: I’m a Roman Catholic too. But I belong to the Latin Rite traditional Church.
Our [FSSP] priests do not waste one syllable of their words on idiocy like this. They teach, clearly and often, that islam is satanic. That allah is the devil. And they follow that up with the Church’s teaching on ‘righteous war’, which spells out that we not only may, but must, kill these monsters. To do this, we have extraordinary MEN (not women!) who are called to the high vocation of ‘warriors’.
As for the rest of us: We are called to pray for our enemies. But we, too, are called to RESIST, in every way we can, this abominable evil. The two teachings coexist alongside each other, w/o any conflict whatsoever.
Champ says
We are called to pray for our enemies.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Indeed — and Jesus never stated that we are to *trust* our enemies.
Bill says
Well stated.
Kathy Brown, Esq. says
Thank you Bill-
Christianblood says
Kathy Brown
What type of Catholic church is your church Kathy?
I am encouraged by your words!
Azacque says
The power of Christ “could” prevail? I am not catholic but I know the power of Christ WILL ALWAYS PREVAIL!
peter charles says
Christianity is not a suicide cult, and the idea that islamists will agree to a peaceful co -existence is pure delusion. What the islamists want is your immediate conversion or your death. Have you missed the last frw decades of the mid eastern wars? Islam is a government disguised as a religion that does not want peace, but complete submission.
Kepha says
Matt, our job as Christians (and I am a God-bless-King-Billy [of Orange] Protestant myself) is to be witnesses to the great saving acts of God, especially what we read of in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We must also pray that God would be merciful to this dying world in which we live, for it is the Holy Spirit’s job to do the converting.
As for turning the other cheek, that is clearly a teaching against private vengeance. Augustine of Hippo, whom both of us ought to study with the utmost respect (yes, knowledgeable Protestants are aware that Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, and Cranmer quoted him second only to the Bible itself) taught that the state is allowed to wage war justly on occasion. Hence, we must not succumb to the Anabaptist temptation to relegate politics, government, and responsibility for public safety to the devil. Too many of us Anglo-Saxon (even if just by osmosis) Protestants succumbed to that temptation back in the early 20th century (the RC’s are doing it now), with the result that the Western world is now led by creepy human maggots who have made abortion the sacrament of womanhood, homosexuality the new “normal”, and who can’t urge a confused teenage boy to forget about getting his 外卵 cut off and his breast pumped up with silicone to try to be a girl. These same corrupt people are the very ones who are giving the West away to the wonderful people who brought us 9/11 and the London subway bombings.
Yes, I’m a small-p pacifist, too. I prefer peace to war. I believe that the goal of public life is peace with justice (as defined by lex divino et naturale, not the whims of those with power); not conflict. I want us to have peaceful and orderly lives (see Rom. 13), not crime in the streets and war abroad. I’ve noted here before that Christ’s marching orders are to make disciples rather than conquered peoples (Mt. 28, of which you seem to be aware). I’ve noted here that Paul urges us to seek peace with all men as much as it is up to us. But I also know that the time comes when we must fight. Good Lord deliver us, but your will be done. Amen.
Champ ✞ says
Roman Catholic Archdiocese of L.A. Wants ‘Greater Solidarity with Islam’
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Such idiocy.
This attempt at solidarity from the Catholic Archdiocese is part and parcel of the evil Chrislam movement …
Former muslim, Shahram Hadian, speaks out:
“Chrislam Exposed: The Seductive Lie of a Common God between Christianity & Islam”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJd6kPimijw
Must watch!!
Wellington says
The stupidity and rot in the Roman Catholic Church at present has been accelerated with the current Pope, Francis I. The previous Pope, Benedict XVI, had a very realistic and knowledgeable take on Islam. I suspect that the liberal element in the Vatican (and a more Byzantine bureaucracy would be hard to find anywhere on earth than what exists in the Vatican) wanted the previous Pope out (which it got) and was only too elated when the present Pope, whom I personally consider a monumental fool many times over (e.g., his “take” on consumerism, never mind his silly statements about Islam, which the previous Pope never uttered), became pontifex maximus.
To all believing and sensible Catholics out there I say this: Your church is now led by a very foolish man and he is supported by a vast bureaucracy and a hierarchy which is at least as foolish as he is. This sad state of affairs will only increase as the present Pope creates more bishops and cardinals who are like minded with him. In short, the Roman Catholic Church is in melt-down mode. By now every sensible and informed Catholic knows this or should know it.
John C. Barile says
I agree.
mortimer says
I partly agree with Wellington.
Pope Benedict certainly was BETTER informed about Islam than the cultural Marxist Pope Francis…HOWEVER…Benedict backed down and tried to explain away the commentary about Islam’s inherent violence.
wildjew says
Wellington, what do you recommend Catholics do?
Kepha says
Wellington, for all your professed agnosticism, you seem to truly care about what the churches do, especially the RC one in which you were raised. Again, I’d urge you to reconsider the claims of Jesus Christ. That is what I would urge EVERYONE to do.
I freely admit that I identify chiefly with the Swiss-Rhenish-French-Puritan Reformation (to a lesser extent with the Saxon one). At its best, this tradition would subject everything–including our most hallowed traditions– to the criticism of the Scriptures, for we took seriously the humanists’ cry “ad fontes”. Therein, we discovered a doctrine of earthly authority as service rather than mastery in home, church, and state; a voice for the congregation in the government of the church; and political compact in affairs of state. Having taught modern world history and seen how the textbooks introduce the idea of original sin only in discussing Calvin (to get the “Oooooooooh! Horrors!” reaction from students raised as either Moralistic American Pelagian Deists or Socialists), I gladly accept this doctrine (and know it to be a heritage of all Christianity; with the yetzer ra’a idea as something related in Judaism), I’ll also note that this Reformed tradition is also anti-utopian (one reason why we flogged Quakers out of town at the cart’s tail back in 17th century Massachusetts). We recognize that all this world is in the hands of sinful people (ourselves included) who stand in need of grace. But we also recognize the necessity to engage with this world for both its preservation and its salvation.
The current crisis of the Roman Church, in its leadership by a Pope who exemplifies everything wrong with Latin American Roman Catholicism from the conquistadores (assumption of masterly authority to dictate) down to the liberation theologians (those who claim the mantle of the poor and oppressed can do no wrong; and we may join hands with the Marxists to build a Utopia of some chimerical “social justice”) shows the need for a continuing Reformation more than ever.
A propos Wildjew’s question, I know what this Protestant will do. I hold no power, except to interject a few alternative views into what my curriculum tells me I must teach my students. I can’t do it now, because I am on extended medical leave to recover from back surgery. But I will also pray. God is a relevant actor who may be scourging us for submitting to relativist fools who can’t tell men from women; but who disciplines the one he loves (Prov. 3:11-12) and is still able to guide all events for the sake of those who love him (Rom. 8). Perhaps our Western salt has so lost its savor that it is good for nothing but to be trampled underfoot and thrown out. But Perhaps God may yet raise up another persuasive Paul to preach to the nations, or another Gideon to overcome the Midianite hordes.
wildjew says
Kepha, there might be some good or useful purpose served fighting from within the Church as Mr. Spencer is doing. At some point a believer might be forced to make a choice (a decision), whether to stay in the Church and fight from within or move to another denomination and fight from the outside. As a Jew I do not have that luxury. The good thing about Christianity, there are many streams in which to choose. That the Catholic Church essentially has a central authority can be powerful, as the Church speaks with one voice. Yet this can be a double edged sword as we are witnessing today.
Kepha says
Wildjew, I sometimes wonder if Rome’s centralized authority might not be her Achilles’ heel; and the current follies of the Papacy might just be evidence for such a position. Yes, a lot of religious bodies and numerous Cultured Despisers (to take a phrase from Schleiermacher, whom I otherwise dislike) have expressed envy and admiration for that incredible Roman organization. But a corrupt Pope and a few corrupt bishops might suffice to bring the whole thing crashing down. Perhaps less centralization, a good bit more organizational chaos, might allow for a little more growth as different groups seek and compete to find where their emphases resonate, with a Paul and Silas heading one direction and a Barnabas and Mark heading in another (an allusion to a passage in the New Testament book of Acts).
Bill says
The Roman Church has already apostatized through its assertion of (841) of its Catechism, stating that “together they (Muslims) with us (Roman Catholics) adore God.” They make many other such claims of solidarity with Islam. The Biblical response of Christians to the theology of Islam is found throughout the entire witness of Scripture and culminating in the witness of the Son of God, the Second Person of the Trinity, who died for our sins, who Islam denies and blasphemes daily. In 1 John, John the Apostle writes: “the antichrist denies the Son.” Islam denies the Son of God at the creedal, foundational level.
Kepha says
Bill, I’m in basic agreement that the Christian response to Islam must be based on the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments; and I am an unabashed Trinitarian.
In fairness to today’s RCC (to which I do not adhere–I am closest, spiritually, to the conservative Reformed/Presbyterian tradition), this business of Christians and Muslims both adoring God may hearken back to Raymond Lull, a famous Catalan Franciscan philosopher, theologian, and missionary to Muslims who died in 1315. Lull, among other things, recognized points of agreement between Christian and Islamic theologies–although he certainly believed that Islam is false.
Further, Paul wrote of the unbelieving Jews of his day that they had a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge (Rom. 10:2). The unbelieving Jews certainly did not recognize the divinity of Jesus Christ, yet Paul implies that they nonetheless strove after the God of their fathers, who became incarnate in Jesus Christ (I simply won’t set Paul against John against the Synoptics against Peter….). I am willing to accept that Muhammad and the primitive Muslims, as evidenced by the Qur’an, shought to deal with the God of Abrahamic traditions–albeit not according to sound knowledge–too.
There is also a very old tradition in the Eastern churches that Islam is a Christian heresy rather than a completely “other” religion. There’s a bit of sense in that position, too. But I would not call someone like John of Damascus an apostate for saying something along those lines (even if I identify far more with the iconoclasts than with the iconodules).
As for the “Antichrist” character of Islam (and you are absolutely right to call attention to First John), I’ll note that Paul’s “Man of Sin”, whom many Christians have identified as Antichrist, takes his seat in the temple of God (II Thes. 2:3-4). I’m of the mind that the true temple is the church; hence I can see the logic of the reformers who saw Antichrist in the Pope and that of others who see Antichrist in Islam.
Of course, the position I have spelled out–that Islam presents a distorted view of the God whom Christians worship–by no means denies the need for accurate knowledge of God, which is given by the Holy Spirit through submission to Christ. This is why I believe that what the world of Islam needs is not a Reformation within Islam, but a mass turning of Muslims to Christ.
Bill says
Kepha: You make some valid points. But I must disagree on at least one. First, Romans 9-11 makes it clear that the Jews are to receive special consideration and tolerance from Christians. The phenomenon of Jewish rejection of Jesus is unique just as the Jews are unique. Islam cannot be theologically judged by the same standard of Rabbinic Judaism. Also, Jews reject Jesus, but Islam at the creedal and foundational level denies the Son. We must not say that “together with Muslims we adore God.” That is a complete denial of the Son. Unfortunately Catholicism is prone to exaggerate the nature-grace continuum to the point of denying the Gospel.
wildjew says
Here you are judging Islam / Muslims not by their behavior (the laws, judgments, statutes, etc., that they live by) but by their beliefs. Isn’t that what Islam does? In other words if we are ‘non-believers’ we either convert to Islam, or submit to Islam’s authority or we are put to the sword.
Kepha says
Yes, I judge Islam by its beliefs as well as by its laws, judgments, and behavior. But I’ve never made any bones about wanting to see the whole world turn to Jesus Christ (although I see God’s way of doing that being the Holy Spirit blessing the preaching of the Word; not by waging violent war on people).
I’ll readily admit that we haven’t always done things God’s way, and have engaged in proselytizing by the sword (and part of me is even glad that my dear mother’s ancestors in medieval Norway got converted that way by King Olaf Haraldsson, aka St. Olaf). It may also be why the Scandinavian countries today are so apostate. But such behaviour can be justly labeled hypocrisy according to what we have in the New Testament; you can’t say the same when Islam engages in violence to spread itself.
Bill says
Dear Friend: This article is about theology. I, and many Protestants, reject Islam on two basic levels: theological and political. Due to the fact that I am a Constitutionalist and the Constitution was written by Protestants, in a Convention whose delegates were over 95% Protestant and Church members, in a nation that reflected the same, I reject Islam because it is HOSTILE to the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the First Amendment and all five clauses of the First Amendment. Islam is an authoritarian, abusive, cleptocratic, misogynistic,polygamous, supremacist, expansionist, pedophile, Jew-hating POLITICAL IDEOLOGY. And, may God bless you, Jews and Israel forever. I am, a Christian, who BELIEVES THAT Y-SHUA IS THE MESSIAH. As He said: “Unless you believe that I Am, you will die in your sins.” I defend your right to disagree with me and even vilify my belief. That’s what our wonderful PROTESTANT founding fathers established in the Constitution.
Robert Siena says
I wonder if Spencer is aware that the CC is run by freemasons and communists?
Robert Siena says
I meant to add I am Roman Catholic and I Thank God for trad Latin mass. Pray Our Lady’s holy rosary every day.
TheHighlandRebel says
Rubbish. The Catholic church have always outlawed the Freemasons and still do.
Singh the Sikh says
If “greater solidarity with islam” is a “non-negotiable” “iron dogma” regardless of Muslim atrocities, then a fitting, a no-holds-barred, relentless response is required to expose how the Catholic Church has let down Christians facing Muslim repression, and how it is selling out Christianity, and endangering the faith with its traitorous, suicidal overture to Muslims. An outcry is needed from the flock to to knock some sense into the leadership, which has become arrogant, aloof, bigoted and disconnected from believers. The claim that “There is nothing inherent in Islam itself that undergirds violence” beggars belief. It underlines the height of stupidity that is the Catholic Church hierarchy. First, they do little to address paedophilia in the church, now they want parishioners to embrace a paedophile prophet. It’s getting too much.
Kathy Brown, Esq. says
The ‘outcry’ you demand has been happening, Singh, for the last 40 years. It’s called the Latin Mass Traditional Rite of the Church.
We of this Rite arose spontaneously, soon after the errors of Vatican II. Our priests-the FSSP-literally have not one ‘pedophile’ incident (actually the issue is homosexuality, but the left which loves to attack the Church loves homos so they cast it as pedophilia).
Our priests condemn, regularly, the demonic ‘religion’ of islam. Do yourself a favor and look up the FSSP’s closest to you. Go there, and ask them about islam and allah. You’ll get a very different perspective on the Church.
God bless you, and a very Happy New Year to you-
mortimer says
The great Jewish sage and physician Maimonides gave his diagnosis of Islam:
“We have borne (Muslims’) imposed degradation, their lies, their absurdities, which are beyond human power to bear…. We have done as our sages of blessed memory have instructed us, bearing the lies and absurdities of Ishmael…. In spite of all this, we are not spared from the ferocity of their wickedness and their outbursts at any time. On the contrary, the more we suffer and choose to conciliate them, the more they choose to act belligerently toward us…’
Things have not changed. Appeasement never works with SUPREMACISTS…not with Nazis nor with THEOCRATIC SUPREMACISTS like Muslims.
Fr. Ronald Rolheiser has not read the Sira, hadiths, Sharia law, Islamic history or the Koran, and yet he presents himself as an expert on Islam. This is obviously preposterous without him doing the reading! There is so much reading to do in Islam! Fr. Ronald Rolheiser is misrepresenting his understanding of Islam. Islam is different from liberalizing, cultural Marxist.
Fr. Ronald Rolheiser is UNREAD, gullible, naïve, unsophisticated, unacquainted, over-trusting, easy to fool, uncritical, easily taken in, easily deceived, overtrustful, overcredulous, misjudging, unsuspicious, unsuspecting, silly, hoodwinked, illiterate, uneducated, unprepared, dilettantish, unsuspecting, unsuspicious, incurious, and unknowledgeable about political Islam… and yet he presents himself as an expert.
Anyone who listens to him uncritically is a romanticizing dreamer, a self-deluding fantasist, a cock-eyed idealist, a wishful thinker, a self-deceived positive thinker, a theorizer, a hopeless romantic…a fantasizer about Islam…a credulous, simplistic Pollyanna.
MM says
Not in my name!
We should also state that those confused minds who sell us to Islam are usually the ones who also don’t believe in Catholic Doctrine anyways and are keen to abandon every substantial content of the faith of the millenniums. Their thoughts are part of the smoke of Satan who entered the church as stated by Blessed Pope Paul VI.
vcragain says
You should remember that Obama has family who are Muslim, and I presume has met many, many tolerant, peaceful Muslims, so it would seem to those people that the extremists are just a bunch of people who spout extreme rhetoric and are NOT part of the mainstream. This is the problem, Robert believes otherwise, and I am trying to understand all of this. Those who are part of the mainstream tend to think we should all stop getting hysterical about their extremists. It remains to be seen how this develops, but obviously in the West we cannot just wait forever to sort the problem out – we need to at some point start making plans to deal with it. The biggest issue apart from the Islamic extremists is ANTI-Islamic extremists, because then we have total war in the streets. We should be talking about this and making PLANS to deal with it, because it is not going away !
I would like to see discussion by Robert (& others without malice) outline what they think is the best approach and that MAY have to include restrictions on immigration. I am a British immigrant to the US and I believe that is a good policy. fyi – I do not belong to any religious group.
ps – belligerent hate talk does not help and should be avoided by intelligent people.
Beth says
I have met some peaceful Muslims, teenagers just trying to be American teenagers. But they are not “orthodox”. They follow the barest of Muslim beliefs. One of them has a mother that doesn’t even cover her head. The problem is the more peaceful Muslims do not denounce the actions of their more radical brethren. Why is this? Are they afraid? Do they secretly agree with them but don’t want to risk their lives? I heard one Muslim say it is a sin in Islam to criticize another Muslim no matter how much you disagree with their actions. Is this the problem? There are too many dark spots where Islam is concerned.
Kepha says
Beth, once upon a time, I went into a Middle Eastern bakery in NYC to buy lamb pies and baklava. The shop bore a name from one of Muhammad’s relatives rather than a Christian name like Khoury, or Boutros, or Malko. Inside, I noticed that there was a palm cross and an icon quite visible. I asked the boss what was up, and he explained that his Syrian-born father had married a Christian and followed her into the Orthodox Church.
I’ve also noticed that among Persian-origin Christians in America, there are lots of Muslim names, and they’re starting to crowd the Armenian and Assyrian ones. I’ve even run into people of Hui heritage among Chinese immigrant Evangelicals in the USA (and, it appears, that back in China, a noteworthy Christian singer called Sister Ruth is of Hui ethnicity and became a Christian under her grandmother’s and aunt’s influence).
It is my hope and prayer that sooner or later, people of Muslim immigrant backgrounds will find the shallow materialism of our age unfulfilling, and that God the Holy Spirit will use this.
Mirren10 says
vcragain says;
”You should remember that Obama has family who are Muslim, and I presume has met many, many tolerant, peaceful Muslims, so it would seem to those people that the extremists are just a bunch of people who spout extreme rhetoric and are NOT part of the mainstream.”
These ‘extremists’ who ‘spout extreme rhetoric’ are not actually spouting anything extreme. They quote from the koran, the hadith and the sira, to justify what they do and say. All mohammedans accept the koran and the hadith, and believe that mohammed is the perfect example of a man, whose example should be followed by all muslims.
”The biggest issue apart from the Islamic extremists is ANTI-Islamic extremists, because then we have total war in the streets.”
And what ‘ANTI-Islamic extremists’ would those be ? Any of them bombing tube stations, flying planes into buildings, setting off pressure cooker bombs at marathons, murdering people in Paris, San Bernardino, slaughtering children in Russia, Mumbai, Kenya, etc, etc, etc ? No ? So in what way are they ”the biggest issue” ?
” We should be talking about this and making PLANS to deal with it, because it is not going away !”
Why do I have the feeling that your ‘PLANS’ to deal with it would be to just roll over and submit ?
And in actuality, counter-jihadists *are* talking about this, and making suggestions and plans as to how to deal with it. Robert, Pamela, Geert Wilders, Nonie Darwish, Mark Steyn, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Ali Sina. Donald Trump, Mark Durie, and many, many more.
”I would like to see discussion by Robert (& others without malice) outline what they think is the best approach and that MAY have to include restrictions on immigration”
See above.
”ps – belligerent hate talk does not help and should be avoided by intelligent people.”
ps – vague, waffily ignorant nonsense talk does not help and should be avoided by intelligent people.
Beth says
As a Catholic this makes me cringe. I ask God almost daily for the Church to open her eyes. My only solace is the fact that no naive ideas have been declared dogma so we are not obligated to agree with them.
Dale Anderson says
Catholic ? Yes
U.S. Citizen by birth ? Yes
(served in ) U.S. Marines ? Yes
Going to listen to B.S. from Ivory Tower Church Leaders about Islam ? Hell No !
I come from a proud American family, ( ancestors traced back to colonials who fought for independence against the British). If you’re NOT Catholic, please realize that Catholics are individuals who can think for themselves and aren’t bound in any way, to follow the opinions of Church leaders. Islam has declared that non-Muslims are the enemy. What the H…. does that make them in relation to us then ? Duh !
TheHighlandRebel says
Pat Condell sums up the Catholic church nicely.
Mark A says
I’m Catholic and I’m not surprised by this.
We had a lecture on Islam in our parish church given by a priest from a Muslim majority country. It was dhimmitude exemplified.
He said Islam “is a religion of peace” but then said that in the country he came from Christians had to keep a room in every church for the exclusive use of Muslims, and avoid offending Muslims by not ringing church bells, being very restrained in outward displays of Christianity and basically accepting second class status. I asked him to explain the apparent contradiction between “religion of peace” and the perceived requirement to behave in the way he described to avoid “giving offense to Muslims.” No explanation was offered.
I also asked this priest about 9:29 and some the other Koran verses mentioned in this article and was told I misunderstood Islam. No clarification was offered to correct my alleged misunderstanding.
I was the only one at this lecture who questioned any of what the priest was saying. Everyone else seemed to accept it without question.
So I’m not surprised at all to see this American priest talking like this.