Why the wrong answer is killing the West, including America
Introduction: An Epistemological Malady
In his 2010 book, Revelation: Do We Worship the Same God? [1], Mark Durie addresses what is at stake when it comes to the “Same God Question”:
The traditional Islamic view is that if you want to know what the God of the Bible is like, then read the Koran. Not only must Muslims believe that ‘we worship the same God’, but this message is always a central component of the presentation of Islam to Christians and Jews.
[This ‘Same God’ message] provides the lynchpin of Muslims’ efforts to convert the ‘People of the Book’ to the faith of Muhammad. In addition, this belief, once accepted, can lead Christians to support Islamic perspectives in ways other than conversion. For example, embracing this Islamic doctrine wins a measure of respect and even support for Islam from Christians.
(Mark Durie, Revelation: Do We Worship the Same God?, pp 75-76; emphasis added.)
Durie’s clarity on the importance of answering properly the “Same God Question” makes our study of this question essential. In fact, I would argue that the “Same God Question” is equally important for atheists and agnostics to ponder. Some are understanding this, in spite of their predisposition against Christianity. For example, the high-profile atheist Richard Dawkins recently expressed his concern over the decline of Christianity, stating “Christianity might be a bulwark against something worse.” His analysis will almost certainly cost him some allies on the Left. Consider these observations:
“There are no Christians, as far as I know, blowing up buildings,” Dawkins said. “I am not aware of any Christian suicide bombers. I am not aware of any major Christian denomination that believes the penalty for apostasy is death.”
In a rare moment of candor, Dawkins reluctantly accepted that the teachings of Jesus Christ do not lead to a world of terror, whereas followers of radical Islam perpetrate the very atrocities that he laments.
Because of this realization, Dawkins wondered aloud whether Christianity might indeed offer an antidote to protect western civilization against jihad.
The flip side to Dawkins’ point is that Western Civilization might indeed be warranted in protecting Christian culture against Islam and jihad.
This is such an obvious set of considerations and conclusions — all of which stem from a correct answer to the Same God Question — that it is astonishing to be confronted with the writings of those who have never considered this issue, or who have answered The Question incorrectly.
Perhaps nowhere do we find a better expression of the general lack of awareness — and even admission of lack of interest — concerning this pivotal question than in Rod Dreher’s December 17, 2015 post, “Muslim God, Christian God”. I am thankful for his honesty in this article, even if I am deeply disturbed by it.
Dreher’s grappling with The Question was prompted by Wheaton College’s suspension of a professor over this very issue. Dreher cites Wheaton’s statement (emphasis added):
On December 15, 2015, Wheaton College placed Associate Professor of Political Science Dr. Larycia Hawkins on paid administrative leave in order to give more time to explore theological implications of her recent public statements concerning Christianity and Islam…
[Her] recently expressed views, including that Muslims and Christians worship the same God, appear to be in conflict with the College’s Statement of Faith.
And so, we launch into the theological deep-end, with the “Same God Question” finally being brought out into the public square. You can read the whole thing, which for all its obvious sincerity is hopelessly muddled, but I think that’s part of Dreher’s point.
I commend Dreher for his public honesty, especially this section (emphasis added):
To be honest, I’ve never thought at all about whether Muslims pray to the same God as Christians. The Catholic Church teaches that they do, and that was my belief when I was a Catholic, though I never gave it a minute’s thought. I don’t know what I believe now, to be honest. We know that Muslims do not pray to the Holy Trinity — but this is also true of Jews.
Don’t Christians (most Christians) believe that Jews pray to the one true God, even if they have an imperfect understanding of His nature? If this is true for Jews, why not also for Muslims, who clearly adhere to an Abrahamic religion? This is why my tendency is to assume that Muslims do pray to the one true God, even though they have a radically impaired view of Him.
But how far do we go with that?
How far indeed!
The early Christian Church fathers would (and did) have plenty to say about this, including a vigorous denial — based on the Hebrew and New Testament Scriptures — of the statement that Islam is an “Abrahamic religion.”
More from Dreher:
I’m not sure what I think. I mean, I assume, in charity, that people who intend their prayers to be to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are praying to the true God, whatever they lack in theological understanding. But again, I’ve not given this much thought.
How about you?…
Again, I appreciate Rod Dreher’s honesty, and I think a great many people are in the same boat as he. They don’t know what they think, and have never given it much thought.
Dreher confesses one or the other epistemological malady five times.
Five times. In three paragraphs.
In our age of genocide against Christians by Muslims in Africa and the Middle East, the global war on Christians by Islam, the collapse of Christianity in Europe, and the global rise of Islam and stealth jihad everywhere, for sincere Christians to not have ever thought about the “Same God” issue, and to not be sure what they think about it, is deeply, deeply troubling.
Yet as we see from the constant stream of statements from Christian bishops, leaders and writers urging “greater solidarity with Islam“, embracing Muhammad as “a prophet” who “brought love, peace, and much more” to the world, and similar affirmations, the avoidance of The Question is an epistemological malady not merely of the average Christian in the pew, but of church educated, elite and shepherds as well. Political leaders look to such positions as grounding their policies towards Muslims and the religion of Islam in general. And the public policies justified by such Islam-embracing pronouncements provide an open door for Islam to advance its influence and control throughout the West. Indeed, this has been going on for decades now.
This must be addressed, and reversed, if Western leaders are to stand a chance of articulating a coherent policy to protect and preserve our civilization, and see it through the new century.
Dreher asks on his blog, “How about you?” Therefore, I decided to put some effort into this, especially as my own 2010 book deals with the “Same God” question at some length.
The answer to this question has, I believe, not only temporal but eternal implications, which is why I opened Chapter 1 of my book, Facing Islam — On Religious Dialogue — with this quote:
“Can any one of us be silent if he sees that many of his brethren simultaneously are walking along a path that leads them and their flock to a disastrous precipice through their unwitting loss of Orthodoxy?” — Metropolitan Philaret of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad, 1969
Of course, in the context of this article I am speaking of Christian “orthodoxy” with a lower-case “o”. So, from a theological position, I will be appealing to traditional Christian foundations common to Orthodox, Roman Catholics, Protestants, Coptic Orthodox (and shared by Oriental Christians), and Islam’s position vis a vis Christianity.
Next up, Part 2: Allah’s Theological Jihad against Christianity
[1] Alas, Revelation is out of print (with used copies fetching prices of $160 and up on Amazon!), but Dr. Durie has updated his presentation on this issue in a new book, Which God?: Jesus, Holy Spirit, God in Christianity and Islam, in which I was unable to find the quote I selected for my opening citation.
_____
Ralph Sidway is an Orthodox Christian researcher and writer, and author of Facing Islam: What the Ancient Church has to say about the Religion of Muhammad. He operates the Facing Islam blog.
Marcelo says
I think we believe in, pray and worship the same God but Muslims don’t know that God and worship him in a the wrong way.
Furthermore I believe that Islam is supernatural religion, I believe that an angel appear to Mohammed, it was a fallen angel, probably Satan himself. The final objective of Satan is to destroy and prevent us to know the true God. We can’t relate to a person, divine or human, if we don’t know that person.
Jay Boo says
Exodus from Medina
Desert spirits spoke in twisted verse, a dance of words to recite.
— This Muhammad rehearsed in a cave near Mecca veiled by night.
But, the angel ‘Gabriel’ saw his descent, and said “Pawn of Satan turn, repent, repent.”
He did not, so now we all must watch where we step because Muhammad left piles of Islam wherever he slept.and Muslims covet these piles.
The tainted soil of Islam’s creed was fertilized by a lying sociopath’s made-up dream.
Ivan Erickson says
ICE reply to Marcelo:
In stating that Allah and the One True God who lives of the Christian religion are the same God, please read my article below entitled, “SIX IRREFUTABLE PREMISES ON THE CHRISTIAN VS THE ISLAMIC FAITHS.” If you can refute these any of my premises, please do so in another comment.
God bless you.
ICE
somehistory says
When the True God, Creator of the universe, made man, He made man “in His image.” (Genesis)
This does not mean Adam looked like God. It means that Adam was given the attributes of God…in the measure fit for a human creature. Love…which is what the Bible says God “is,” was given to man as a part of his makeup.
Justice, wisdom and mercy, kindness, patience, self-control, long-suffering, and a whole host of other traits were instilled in Adam and Eve. Mankind could reflect back what they were given in a *likeness* to God.
Much like a mirror can reflect back an image of the one peering into its surface.
Anyone who worships the True God will still exhibit these attributes. And they can be found in persons who don’t know God, but love their families, and show the other traits God instilled in mankind.
However, the *god* of the ungodly islam is not our Creator as can be seen by the attributes its adherents, the ones devoted to islam and following the unholy code of evil conduct display.
Those devoted to satan the devil through islam don’t know the meaning of love, kindness, justice, wisdom, patience, long-suffering, self-control, etc. In fact, everything they do is in direct opposition to what the True God has commanded and which He made man capable of doing through the creation of “man in (His) image.”
It is blasphemy to claim that the True God has commanded anyone to rape children or women, force anyone to follow the ungodly, unholy, evil code, murder anyone not bowing to being forced, and lie…lie…lie…to further the evilness of satan the devil.
Jesus Christ, Whom islam distorts and about Whom moslims lie, said the “thief comes to steal, kill and destroy.” That is islam from satan in a nutshell.
Stealing, killing and destroying is in direct violation of the Ten Commandments.
The full truth will be exposed soon for the entire world to see and there will be no more denying that islam is from satan. and moslims have made satan their *god,* and reflect his image.
phyllis says
excellent comment………..GOD is love, mercy justice
allah is death, hate and perversion
Tina says
Somehistory, in response to your blog on the image of God.
The attributes you mention are the communicable attributes of God. It’s the incommunicable attributes of God that we lost in Paradise, i.e., perfect, righteous, sovereign, immutable, infinite, omnipotent! Those attributes are the image of God we lost in Paradise!
Stephen says
.
????????????
Allah is Allah in the Koran.
“Indeed, I AM ALLAH, THERE IS NO God EXCEPT ME, SO WORSHIP ME AND ESTABLISH PRAYERS FOR MY REMEMBRANCE” – Quran 20;14 !!!!
☆☆☆☆☆■■■<<<>>
God is mentioned in the Holy Bible.
Allah is mentioned in the Noble Koran.
There are 2 different identities in the spiritual realms.
.
Lee says
Both claim exclusivity. Can both be true? I submit the answer is no, they cannot be true. A cannot be A and Not-A at the same time and in the same relationship. Law of non-contradiction has not been repealed and cannot be violated and yet the universe maintain any meaning. Islamic theology is fundamentally different from Christian theology. I submit to you that Islam is inconsistent with itself.
Westman says
True.
Also, Allah says he has no Son, the Christian God says, this is my beloved Son.
Quran 23:91 – “Allah has not taken any son, nor has there ever been with Him any deity….”
They can’t both be the same god and have and not-have a son.
j_not_a says
Exactly! This is a no brainer! The whole cornerstone of the Christian faith is belief that because the original perfect son of God Adam lost eternal life for mankind by sinning and that God sent His Son Jesus who sacrificed his perfect life for mankind to buy back life for those who put his faith in him.
The koran states emphatically however that allah has no son – 2:116, 4:171, 6:101, 9:30, 10:68 and there are more which you can find with a simple google search.
9:30 (which I will print out as follows but the above you can look up they support the same contention) AND THE JEWS say, “Ezra is God’s son,” while the Christians say, “The Christ is God’s son.” Such are the sayings which they utter with their mouths, following in spirit assertions made in earlier times by people who denied the truth! [44] [They deserve the imprecation:] “May God destroy them!” [
j_not_a says
Also, the recurrent theme throughout the Bible is love God’s love for mankind the many ways he expresses his love for us and the ways he encourages us to show our love for each other; as well as His promise for a much better world soon to come. I cannot think of any book or belief system exhibiting such a paucity of love or humanity offering such a bleak outlook on the future of the world like islam and the koran.
How any sane thinking person could possibly think these two beliefs could both share the same Gods is insulting the true God Jehovah in the worst way possible and hang their heads in shame.
phyllis says
there is NOTHING noble about the Qur’an, it is a book of hate and perversion
baby girls are raped and allah says that is ok, boys are raped and allah said that is ok
ISIS is the Qur’an come alive > nothing noble about isis
women have no respect from allah as he made them deficient of mind , stupid and dirty
allah said hell is full of women …the Qur’an is satan’s puke on the earth
allah is a demon not a god of any kind
somehistory says
satan’s puke on the earth
You said it!
And reading it, makes a decent person want/need to puke.
Mathew Solo says
phyllis…You nailed it !
“ISIS is the Qur’an come alive”
Charli Main says
Muslims don´t worship God at all. They worship the wannabe God, Satan, who was thrown out of Heaven for his arrogance. Satan has been trying to get back at the followers of the REAL GOD ever since, by inventing Islam, using his mentally deranged puppet, Mohammed of Mecca, as his tool to spread evil and darkness through the World.
Tony says
Simply put Muslims do not believe in the Trinity and nowhere in the Quran does Allah say he loves his People. Solved – Not the same God.
Miao Zedong says
Islamic “trinity”: Koran, Mohammed and Allah vs Holy Spirit, Jesus and God.
mortimer says
MZ wrote: “Islamic “trinity”: Koran…”
Agree. Muslims worship the Koran as the Eternal Words of Allah. If it is eternal, it must be the same as Allah, so the Koran is Allah.
Lee says
The allegory doesn’t work. Muhammad is not nor ever claims to be coequal or one in essence with Allah, likewise the Koran. So, no, there is no Islamic trinity akin to the Christian Biblical doctrine. The Logos (Jesus) is, with the Spirit, coexisistent, coeternal, and one with the Father. Jesus was begotten of the Father, not made. Muhammad was a
man made just like any man. The Koran was a book, even if written by Allah, was a creation, an artifact. Thus both being made, could not be coexisting unless they preceded themselves in time and logic. So, you are in error.
TH says
Hereis a link to a blog by a Catholic philosopher who argues “with some reservations” that we do worship the same God http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com.es/2015/12/christians-muslims-and-reference-of-god.html
A related questionis whether the God of classical theism is the same God as the God of the Bible, and therefore of Christianity.
I think Mark Durie is an authorative voice on the matter.
As for the Catholic Church,it seems to me that it has based its judgement expressed in the Second Vatican Council on a work by a French author, whose name I don’t recall now who actually understood Islam mainly from the point of view of Sufism which is a marginal and mystical sect within Islam. This line is followed then by the Catechism of the Catholic Church and later Popes. There is an article by Robert Spencer in Crisis Magazine, a Catholic magazine, in which he makes a aplausible exegesis of the Vatican II text which would allow for the case that it is not the same God. Of course, this is not a major teaching of the Church and it could be revised since in reality the Church would be better not to officially decide on this issue. Pope Francis seems to have no doubt that it is the same God, but neither has he manifested any real knowledge of Islam.
John Butler says
The more I’ve studied Islam the more I’ve realised it is a fraudulent ideology, invented by Satan himself to confuse and condem humanity.
See what’s happening in the world and it becomes blindingly obvious.
mortimer says
Islam was invented by Caliph Abd al Malik and his evil henchman Hajjaj.
Champ says
“mortimer” the know-it-all.
Actually “mortimer” is WRONG, and he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Again.
Angemon says
It’s a possibility, Champ. Coins and inscriptions featuring islamic motives can be traced back to around the time of Caliph al-Malik. Plus, in a hadith, he claims to have collected the quran during ramadan. That would mean that the quran was not collected by Uthman, forty years before al-Malik.
B. says
Hello All,
I bought a copy from here: http://www.crossroadbooks.com.au/catalogsearch/result/?q=Revelation%3F+Do+we+worship+the+same+God%3F
Less than $20 U.S. Dollars.
Thanks for the book suggestion.
PRCS says
“atheists and agnostics”
“Some are understanding this, in spite of their predisposition against Christianity”
Say, what?
Just Christianity?
C’mon.
Walter Sieruk says
The claim made by the apologists for Islam is that the Christians and Muslims both worship the same God. Being the God of the Bible,. That same claim further states that the God of the the Bible and the Koran the same God. This is that claim really valid and true? Actually , as in reality, the God of the Bible is not the god of Islam. some of the many reasons that this is so and that some people mistake them as the same is that in the passing of time it had become widely accepted that the word Allah is just the Arabic word for God. This started when truth compromising Bible “translators” substituted the word Allah where the word God should have been used in the Arabic translation of the Bible. Furthermore,in the glossary in the book ASSASSINS ! by Dr. Haha Lung defined Allah as the “Pre-Islamic Lunar god: the god of Islam.” Likewise, the book INSIDE ISLAM by Reza F. Safa on pages 22,23 reads “In pre-Islamic times both Allah- worship and Baal-worship involved the worship of the sun, the moon and the stars which defines the mas astral religions. [Such cults are condemned in the Bible, Second Kings 23:5.] The crescent moon, which was the symbol of moon worship is also the symbol of Islam. So the god of Islam is not the God of the Bible. Those words in brackets are my own.
Moreover, it, very much, needs to be keyboarded the some of the books that further expose this not well known truth are as follows. They are, WHO IS THIS ALLAH ? by G.J.O. Moshay. and UNVEILING ISLAM by Ergun Mehmet Caner and Emir Fethi Caner. also THE ISLAMIC INVASION by Robert Morey . Then there is PHILISTINE by Ramon Bennett .
Michael Copeland says
Islamic State destroyed the tomb of St. Elian: they said it was dedicated to a God other than Allah. They later destroyed all the remaining buildings.
“Christianity should be destroyed and wiped from the face of the earth. …once and for all rid the world of Christianity and there is nothing you can do about it.”
Sheik Farook al-Mohammedi
http://libertygb.org.uk/news/islams-vision-destruction-muslims-speak
Thomas says
This argument is a ridiculous distraction, wasting time and energy.
My myth is greater than your myth, ha!
If you are an infidel, everything you think you know, everything you own, everything you feel, and everything you love, and anything you may believe. will soon be trampled in the dust.
This is a battle for existence, not points of view on middle-eastern mythology.
Educate your self, learn and teach.
Freedom is not free, you must fight for it or someone will take it from you, guaranteed!
Chris says
If God is the God of the Talmud and the same God as the New Testament and the same God as the Koran, that suggests to me that God is bi-polar.
fido says
Allah is satan. The evil ideology of islam is satan’s creation codified in the pages of the qur’an, a deception it has foisted on the brainwashed & misguided followers of its murderous pedophile prophet. Evil Evil Evil!!
mortimer says
Jehovah and Allah are two different deities with two different names. Allah is an ANTI-GOD…Allah is against all others and even against himself. He contradicts the Bible’s God on hundreds of points.
Allah is pure will, a perfect dictator and enslaver, unlike the God of the Bible who is a ‘heavenly father’.
Allah claims to know everything, but needs Mohammed to make joint decisions.
Allah claims he is alone, but Mohammed is his partner.
Allah doesn’t even know his eternal name is Jehovah which appears almost 7,000 times in the Old Testament. Jehovah says, ‘This is my name (Jehovah) and my title (‘the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob’) FOREVER’.
Allah calls himself by the name of the Arabian war god (Qos-Allah)…worshipping other gods are prohibited by the First Commandment.
Allah contradicts himself frequently…he tells Mohammed to be tolerant in Mecca and violent in Medina…just like a conman who plays bait-and-switch.
Allah claims to be perfect, but his book is filled with historical, grammatical, stylistic, scientific and factual errors.
Allah tells his followers to be ‘violent’ (ashidaa’) to disbelievers, but Jehovah reveals the Universal Golden Rule.
Allah hates Jews and Christians, however, Jehovah calls Jews ‘the apple of my eye’ and Jesus called Jews ‘the Light of the World’. Moreover, the New Testament calls the Christian Church ‘the bride of Christ’. Allah and Mohammed could not have read the Bible.
Allah does not love the disbelievers, but Jehovah ‘so loved the world’. Jn3.16
Allah tells stories about the Old Testament prophets and Jesus that substantially contradict the Bible versions, and at the same time tells Mohammed that the Bible is his ‘Book’ that cannot be changed. Allah doesn’t know what he wrote.
Allah substantially contradicts Jehovah on so many points and his character is so different that they cannot possibly be the same deity. They are not even the same ‘IN NAME ONLY’.
somehistory says
All true. Jehovah is not the false god of islam; never was and never will be.
WorkingClassPost says
The answer is no.
karen says
She looks so proud to be wearing her head scarf, and subjugating herself.
Champ ✞ says
Allah — the Moon God
CONCLUSION
The pagan Arabs worshipped the Moon-god Allah by praying toward Mecca several times a day; making a pilgrimage to Mecca; running around the temple of the Moon-god called the Kabah; kissing the black stone; killing an animal in sacrifice to the Moon-god; throwing stones at the devil; fasting for the month which begins and ends with the crescent moon; giving alms to the poor, etc.
The Muslim’s claim that Allah is the God of the Bible and that Islam arose from the religion of the prophets and apostles. Islam is refuted by solid, overwhelming archeological evidence. Islam is nothing more than a revival of the ancient Moon-god cult. It has taken the symbols, the rites, the ceremonies, and even the name of its god from the ancient pagan religion of the Moon-god. As such, it is sheer idolatry and must be rejected by every born again Christian.
Excerpt here: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Islamic%20Muslim/moon_god.htm
Gray says
Maybe I really am as simple minded and foolish as my children tell me I am, but I can’t see the problem here. God is God, as an objective reality, so yes, Christians and Muslims worship the same God. However, subjective human perceptions can not change God’s essential properties. Muslims and Christians see God totally differently, and both belief systems can not be right.
epistemology says
This is the core problem. Muzzies don’t worship the same G’d as Jews and Christians. It’s fair to say that all of Western ethics is based on Judaism. Without Judaism there would be no Christianity and the Christians accepted the Hebrew Bible 100%. So Western ethics are Jewish we have the right values and we don’t want any perverse values from people who worship their criminal prophet. The prophet suffered from a narcissistic personality disorder. He always wanted to be the centre of attention and everybody had to obey him, he ordered all the people who made fun of him to be killed.He lived on caravan robbery, so Islam is unacceptable for the enlightened West.
mortimer says
Agree with epistemology. Mohammed was TOXIC NARCISSIST and so are Muslims who try to imitate him.
Most Muslims cannot bring themselves to believe with as much cruelty and naracissism as Mohammed.
Most Muslims are hypocritical about Mohammed and so they do not practice Islam.
somehistory says
The false *god* of islam is said to be the “greatest of deceivers” and commands all of his devotees to lie and lie and lie for islam’s takeover of mankind. And any and all other times they may open the mouth to speak or take up a pen or keyboard to write.
However, the Bible says of the True God, the God of Christians and Jews: “It is impossible for God to lie.” And that, “God does not lie.” (Hebrews 6:18; Titus 1:2)
Jesus said of the devil, ‘He is the father of the lie and the truth is not in him (John 8).” He also said that satan is a murderer.
Paul said that the devil has the power to cause death (Hebrews 2). The True God gives life and according to His Son, gives it in abundance. (John 10:10).
The devil is in competition with God and it is part of his evilness that he wants people to believe that he is God.
Anyone praying to the *god* of the unholy book of islam, is praying to satan the devil.
There are so very many differences, it is impossible to list them all. Anyone saying that God and the false *god* of islam are the same, does not know the True God or His Son.
Champ ✞ says
JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD
The Qu’ran clearly states that Allah has NO son.
“They say, ‘God has begotten a son.’ God forbid! Self-sufficient is He. His is all that the heavens and the earth contain. Surely for this you have no sanction. Whould you say of God what you know not?” — Qur’an 10:68
“Such was Jesus, the son of Mary. That is the whole truth, which they still doubt. God forbid that He Himself should beget a son! When He decrees a thing He need only say: ‘Be,’ and it is.” —Qur’an 19:35
“Those who say: ‘The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,’ preach a monstrous falsehood, at which the very heavens might crack, the earth break asunder, and the mountains crumble to dust. That they should ascribe a son to the Merciful, when it does not become the Lord of Mercy to beget one!” — Qur’an 19:88
“Never has God begotten a son, nor is there any other god besides Him. Were this otherwise, each god would govern his own creation, each holding himself above the other. Exalted be God above their falsehoods!” — Qur’an 23:91
Clearly, the Qu’ran denies that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
JESUS CHRIST WAS CRUCIFIED
The Qu’ran states that Jesus (they call their version of Jesus – Isa) was never crucified.
From the Qu’ran:
Christians and Jews have corrupted their scriptures. (Âl ‘Imran 3:74-77, 113) Although Christians believe ‘Isa died on a cross, and Jews claim they killed him, in reality he was not killed or crucified, and those who said he was crucified lied (An-Nisa’ 4:157). ‘Isa did not die, but ascended to Allah. (An-Nisa’ 4:158) On the day of Resurrection ‘Isa himself will be a witness against Jews and Christians for believing in his death. (An-Nisa’ 4:159)
HOW CAN OUR GOD BE ALLAH?
The foundation of our faith is the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. He paid our sin debt, that we were not able to pay. He reconciled all those who repented and trusted Him to the Father. Jesus, who had no sin, gave us His Righteousness! He is not only the Son of God, but He is the second Person of the Godhead — therefore, He is God. Only God could be the final sacrifice for all sin!
Excerpt here: http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/will-believe/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“The foundation of our faith is the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.”
Hear, hear!!
mortimer says
Champ. You are wrong.
The Koran never says the Bible is corrupted. Check it out. Mohammed said the Word of God is protected. He meant the Bible.
Muslims much later realized that Mohammed had not read the Bible and new nothing of its contents. It was then the BS theory of ‘changing the scripture’ was invented.
Muslims invent lies to cover earlier lies.
Champ says
mortimer wrote:
Champ. You are wrong.
The Koran never says the Bible is corrupted. Check it out. Mohammed said the Word of God is protected. He meant the Bible.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
???
I may be wrong, but the burden of proof is on YOU, mort.
“Check it out” ??? Ok, where’s the proof that I’m “wrong”. Please provide chapter and verse where “mohammed said the Word of God is protected”, so I can “check it out”, otherwise you don’t have a leg to stand on. You gave me nothing to “check out” ..??
Champ says
Strange that “mortimer” is offering a defense of ‘prophet’ mohammad — oh, but then he covers his tracks by stating that muslims lie.
“mortimer” has always had a *soft spot* for islam & company, and it comes out every once in a while, so his above remark comes as no great surprise.
gravenimage says
Mortimer wrote:
Champ. You are wrong.
The Koran never says the Bible is corrupted. Check it out. Mohammed said the Word of God is protected. He meant the Bible.
…………………………….
Mortimer, I’m afraid the Qur’an is *full* of accusations that Jews and Christians changed the words of their scripture–i.e., the Bible. Here are just a few examples:
Can ye (o ye men of Faith) entertain the hope that they will believe in you?- Seeing that a party of them heard the Word of Allah, and perverted it knowingly after they understood it… Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:”This is from Allah,” to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. (
–Qu’ran 2:75,79
There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, “That is from Allah,” but it is not from Allah: It is they who tell a lie against Allah, and (well) they know it!
Qur’an 3:78
But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few – ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind. From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done.
–Qur’an 5:13-14
No just estimate of Allah do they make when they say: “Nothing doth Allah send down to man (by way of revelation)” Say: “Who then sent down the Book which Moses brought?- a light and guidance to man: But ye make it into (separate) sheets for show, while ye conceal much (of its contents): therein were ye taught that which ye knew not- neither ye nor your fathers.” Say: “Allah (sent it down)”: Then leave them to plunge in vain discourse and trifling.
–Qur’an 6:91
But those who wronged among them changed [the words] to a statement other than that which had been said to them. So We sent upon them a punishment from the sky for the wrong that they were doing.
–Qur’an 7:162
And [mention, O Muhammad], when Allah took a covenant from those who were given the Scripture, [saying], “You must make it clear to the people and not conceal it.” But they threw it away behind their backs and exchanged it for a small price. And wretched is that which they purchased.
–Qur’an 3:187
O People of the Scripture, there has come to you Our Messenger making clear to you much of what you used to conceal of the Scripture and overlooking much. There has come to you from Allah a light and a clear Book.
–Qur’an 5:15
Indeed, those who conceal what We sent down of clear proofs and guidance after We made it clear for the people in the Scripture – those are cursed by Allah and cursed by those who curse
–Qur’an 2:159
Indeed, they who conceal what Allah has sent down of the Book and exchange it for a small price – those consume not into their bellies except the Fire. And Allah will not speak to them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them. And they will have a painful punishment.
–Qur’an 2:174
There are many more.
Champ says
Graven, thank you for providing proof to the contrary to mortimer’s accusation that I am “wrong”. Oftentimes mortimer comes across like a big know-it-all, when in fact he’s the one who’s WRONG.
gravenimage says
At best Mortimer is mistaken here, Champ. And there is much more in the Hadith explicitly accusing Jews and Christians of “corrupting” their holy books. Here’s just one:
O Congregation of Muslims, how can you ask questions of the People of the Book, when your book which God revealed to His prophet brings the best tidings about God? Ye read it unfalsified and God has told you that the People of the Book have altered what God wrote, and have falsified the book with their hands, and said, “This is from God” in order to get some paltry reward for it. Has He not forbidden you to ask those people about what you have received in the way of knowledge? By God, we have never seen any one of them asking you about what has been revealed to you.
–Bukhari
Champ says
Graven, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Here’s what “mortimer” wrote to me:
“Champ. You are wrong.”
So in my opinion, “mortimer” is flat-out WRONG here.
Appreciate the information you’ve provided. Again, thank you.
Vae Victis says
To me the Allah of the Muslim is as different from the God of the Christians as black is to white.
The one (Allah) commands all that is beastial in mankind.
The other (God) encourages and promotes all that is good and loving in mankind.
They are as opposite as evil is to good.
As different as Satan is to Jesus.
With Muslims and Christians as with all men, by their deeds they will be judged.
David says
Muslims like to lie and try to convince the rest of the world that their DEMON based cult has something in common with Jesus or Jehovah. This is utterly FALSE.
The god of islam is the complete opposite from the GOD worshiped by the Christian and Jewish peoples.
Don’t be deceived. Islam is nothing more then a cheap SATANIC counterfeit of the truth.
Mark H. says
It seems a simple thing to discover whether the Jews and the Islamic people worship the same god. However it does get a bit strange when you find that our ancestors turned to worshipping bulls etc. The apostle John gave a simple solution for us in his Epistle. Both Islam and the Jews deny that Jesus was the Christ which means “the anointed one”. It is also strange that many Christians don’t know the answer to the question.
1 John 2: 22 “Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.”
So the simple answer is that neither the Jews nor Islam worship the same “God of Israel” that we worship and can call Father.
Kepha says
There’s a further complication about what the Apostle John is talking about.
Some have argued that the actual target of I John 2:22 was a group called Docetist by church historians. These people believed that the “Christ” was in fact some spiritual principle that briefly inhabited the man Jesus, or appeared or “seemed” to be a man named Jesus. Hence, John’s concern is to establish the identity of “God’s Son” (cf. Ps. 2:7; II Sam. 7:12-15), “Christ/Messiah”, and the historical individual Jesus of Nazareth–“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life…” (I John 1:1). In short, John has no interest in distancing himself from Judaism per se, but from a heresy already manifest in the infant Christian (“Messianic”) movement.
WorkingClassPost says
Why does anyone waste one moment of their time on this crap.
Keep it simple.
There is no Islam, and there is no Allah – it’s mohamed; stupid.
Salome says
Dr Durie has a recent article on the subject here: http://blog.markdurie.com/2016/01/do-we-worship-same-god-wheaton-college.html from which I quote what would seem to be the central point: “Unlike the Old Testament, the Qur’an completely lacks a theology of the presence of God. Although the Arabic term sakīnah – borrowed from Hebrew shekinah – appears six times in the Qur’an, it has been repurposed to mean ‘tranquility’, and the concept of the personal presence of God is not comprehended by Quranic theology. It is not just that Islam rejects the incarnation of Jesus: in complete contrast to Judaism its scripture offers no basis for an incarnational theology.”
Kepha says
Good for Wheaton College! I’m trying to collect a few more thoughts on the topic.
Jihadophobic says
A very useful argument in the “same god” debate is Euthyphro’s dilemma: “Is what is morally good commanded by God because it is morally good, or is it morally good because it is commanded by God?” Islam’s god is the second one: Might makes Right. The Koran is full of “Allah knows yet you know not” etc, and questioning is frowned upon. The Christian version is God=Good. God is rational. Allah can be irrational or rational, depending on his whim. The Christian God can be understood with by rationality. Allah is unknown and unknowable. Christian means Christ follower, while Muslim means submitted. Conclusion: they are not the same god. And the Euthyphro problem lives on in almost every day’s news’ headlines.
Here is an excellent article: http://maverickphilosopher.typepad.com/maverick_philosopher/2009/06/islam-and-the-euthyphro-problem.html
Jihadophobic says
Also, the almost prophetic CS Lewis’s The Last Battle, where ‘Calormenes’ (obviously the Saracens) invade Narnia and bring their god Tash. ‘Tash’ (obviously Allah) is eventually equated with Aslan (Christ), and one of the animals asks: “Aslan means neither less nor more than Tash?” “… no more at all.” The emphasis is on the “no more”. In other words, by making the Islamic and Christian versions of God equal, it is reducing the Christian God by cutting off the Trinity, Love, Rationality, Moral Goodness, the free gift of Grace, and countless more things.
Gary says
I think it’s safe to say Jesus does not endorse the carnage prevalent within the Islamic community……..
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Many will tell me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?’
Then I will tell them, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.” (Matthew 7:21-23)
Richard says
It is vitally important for Islam that they convince Christians that they worship the same god and that Islam is an “Abrahamic faith” as they also believe in the Jewish prophets.
It is vitally important because without this commandeering of the Judeo-Christian historical narrative, Islam gets exposed as the religion started by Muhammad, rooted in pagan Mecca, with its main idol the Kaaba and its main god Allah, which it in fact is.
Islam is in fact a usurper religion which has hijacked and corrupted the Christian narrative in order to clothe itself with legitimacy.In fact it is an illegitimate wolf in sheeps’ clothing. A murderous, marauding, supremacist cult, that had no origin before Muhammad.
It is equally vitally important that Jews and Christians and others understand this, and that this knowledge is disseminated universally, so that it is given no respect or support among Christians or Jews.
Richard says
PS The fact that Islam has commandeered the Biblical historical narrative and started by Muhammad, is the repetitive and inaccurate stories of Abraham, Moses, Jonah etc in the Quran. It is obviously been told by a person who has heard these stories but has not seriously studied the Bible. This person fits with Muhammad perfectly.
Salome says
Exactly–everytime a Bible story finds its way into the Quran it’s wrong. Every time a biblical character turns up in the Quran the stories are different from the stories in the Bible. So when the Muslims talk about Christians, Jews and Muslims having the same God because they are all ‘Abrahamic’ faiths, I think we should retort: but is it the same Abraham?
Richard says
Muhammad quoted little snippets from here and there, repeated himself and contradicted himself when he was acting as the ventriloquist for “Allah” in the Quran.
The Quran is jumbled up nonsensical mess. Quite consistent with an ignorant Arab of the 7th century but quite inconsistent with any even half intelligent being.
dumbledoresarmy says
I don’t think the stories are garbled/ distorted by accident. I don’t think the Quranic (and Hadith) distortions of Biblical persons and stories are the result of mere ignorance – “so and so just didn’t understand/ didn’t hear the whole story”.
*I* think the distortions are *deliberate*. What’s going on is a quite deliberate and *hostile* rewriting. It’s all of a piece.
And then the resultant hostile/ distorted rewrite is claimed – in a simply stunning Goebbelsian Big Lie and Reversal of Reality – to be the pure original and the texts that it plagiarised – texts that existed, in their present form as used by Christians and Jews, for *centuries* before ever Islam was cooked up – are accused of having been ‘corrupted’… Talk about ‘projection’!
gravenimage says
I agree, DDA. Most notably, the Muslim “Jesus” is not only no the Son of God, he is also not a healer or a peacemaker. His main role in the last days in Muslim eschatology is to *kill Christians* who refuse to deny Christ.
This is, of course, no accident.
When Muslims say they respect Jesus and the prophets, their conception of these figures is so different from those of the Torah and Gospels that it does not mean what so many well-meaning Jews and Christians think it does at all.
dragaozao says
In this matter of the “same God” I’ll be brief: NO! The God I worship is LOVE and MERCY. Not a blood thursty idol. And there nothing more to say.
Wellington says
I would like to proffer a simple solution to this matter that I personally think is not all that complicated.
Here it is: Either Muslims DO worship the same deity that Jews and Christians do but which is a quite distorted version of this deity compared to what Jews and Christians deem this deity to be, thus functioning as a bastardization of the Judeo-Christian conception of this monotheistic cosmic entity, OR Muslims do not worship the same deity that Jews and Christians do, though Muslims believe they do although they are wrong about this (as Muslims are wrong about so many other matters) and, in effect, are worshipping some moon god relic of pre-Mohammedan Arab polytheism with a thin (very thin) coating of Judeo-Christian deific aspects overlaying things here.
Either way, Islam and its deluded followers have effed up things once again as is their wont. Yes, Muzzies are wrong again (as are dhimmi apologists for Islam) and the specific reason why in this regard is an abstract and secondary matter, fit for discussion but not really for any true butting of heads because, EITHER WAY, Mo’s deluded followers are behind the eight ball yet again.
Hope says
Anyone whose daily prayers include the wish for the death and destruction of others is praying to Satan, whether they know it or not.
Russell Kirk Was Right says
Here’s a thought. Since Vatican II formulated no new dogma, we can and should dismiss the hazardous and patently untrue things it says about adoring the one true God. Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons will say they pray to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: saying it does not make it so.
Lumen Gentium should be emended. End of story.
gravenimage says
Whatever you think of their beliefs, Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses will not harm you if you do not share them–not so of violent Muslims.
abad says
The name Allah does not appear anywhere in the Bible.
Next question please.
grace says
That’s right. Must be why God in the Bible have is his name/s. So when someone tried to say allah is the same, we could say “na”. But snyhow, he is a stinky fake god who fuels barbarism.
Champ says
The name Allah does not appear anywhere in the Bible.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In a roundabout way the name “allah” does appear in the Bible: satan!
Kepha says
However, the name El, and derivatives, which are Hebrew cognates, do appear. My fuller comment is elsewhere.
Richard P, Sweden says
The name Muhammed neither.
Mary says
The Bible is quite clear on this issue:
1 John 2:23 (KJV)
“Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also]”
If Islam denies the deity of Christ, Allah can’t be the God of the Bible.
Gary says
Amen Mary!! Outstanding reference!! And I might add….
Jesus stated: “I Am the way. The truth. And the life. No man comes to the Father but by me.” (John 14:6)
grace says
I wouldn’t pray to, let alone worship allah if he was the last god on earth. Actually he is not a God because one would expect a God to be kind and benevolant. He is a made up god by desert people who needed a reason to butcher and control others.
If you really want to dumb down, become a moslem.
garegin says
The answer is simple really. People confuse character with personhood/being. It is without question that the Quran is referring to the same being that the Bible is. However the Quran has a lot of differences in its understanding of His character. People suddenly get offended and scream that God of the Bible is not like in the Quran. That’s true. That’s separate from correctly identifying someone.
A good book is Mark Durie Which God?
I think the reason why the Quran has such a shallow theology, is because it was basically a collection of oral retellings of Biblical stories by apostate Jews and heretical Christians. There are no deep connections and symbolic references between the events like in the Bible. The people telling the stories were layman who didn’t have careful insights into the Bible. That’s why lot of the stories don’t make sense. Popular legends and Biblical retellings are not going to have the same meaning and depth.
Kepha says
Some rather worthwhile points, Garegin. Of course, you need also to allow for how Muhammad was unable to tell actual material from the Old and New Testaments from later works and auntoritative or semi-authoritative interpretations. Some of his “Old Testament” material is actually from the Midrash Rabbah; some of the “New Testament” material is actually from later, apocryphal works such as the Protevangelion of James.
Donovan Nuera says
Then again, muslims believe that the original kaaba was constructed by Isaac or Jacob in mecca which is WAY FAR away from where Abraham lived in Mesopotamia/Canaan and through a lot a hot stupid desert. Muhammad’s interactions with “Gabriel” in a cave were never witnessed by anyone. If Mo’ was alive today, he would have been sent to an in-patient psych ward and given Risperdal injections for probable mania with delusions of grandeur. Not one supernatural feat or miracle ever done in islam. …and he raped his pre-pubescent 9 year old wife. Nuff said.
Lion of Judah's Cub says
Islam is satan’s greatest deception against humankind. From its earliest dark days satan used Islam to strike at the heart of Christianity in Asia Minor, Middle East, North Africa (consider Egypt – formerly 99% Christian) and Europe. According to certain scholars Christianity today is a pale imitation of what it once was prior to the ravages of Islam, based on the rich intellectual and spiritual tradition found in the remnant works of the early Church Fathers.
Today this satanic beast system is completely surrounding Israel, the apple of God’s eye, the chosen people. Satan knows that Jerusalem is where Jesus Christ, the King of Kings will return to end satan’s rule as the “god of this world” or “god of this age” [see 2 Cor. 4:4 and Revelation]. Satan wants to remain as the god of this world and is seeking to destroy his two main contemporary enemies: Jews and Christians. He has worked this evil scheme into his evil teachings through the koran written by Arab warlords, who were likely demon possessed and thus directly inspired by satan. [I do not believe his false prophet ever existed based on the scholarly research of such luminaries as Robert Spencer and others.]
According to spiritual warriors who fight demon possession and oppression any satanic/pagan system includes sexual attacks against women and children (as well as murder and mayhem). This is one of the hallmarks of the koran and hadith. Not a coincidence. Satan hates his main enemy, Mary the Virgin Mother of God, whose humbleness and obedience to God has brought about his defeat at the hands of her Son, the Christ-child. Hence the transference of satan’s feral rage to all women and children.
Consider also that most Muslims today had ancestors who were once Christians or Jews. Please return to the one true God, Muslims of the world.
Thus, Christians and Jews worship the one true God, YHWH; while the Muslims unknowingly worship “the god of this age” also known as satan, the great deceiver, the most proud, the counterfeiter, the destroyer.
We are now in the midst of the greatest spiritual battle. To defeat the enemy we must pray and fast as Jesus instructed His disciples. Humankind must repent and turn back to our Heavenly Father.
somehistory says
Excellent analysis.
satan the devil has tried numerous ways to completely devour the means by which the True God, Jehovah, has provided to bring mankind back into harmony with His Will. satan doesn’t want to just “bruise” Christ; he wants to destroy Him and His followers on earth.
isalm has been very effective for satan in “blinding the minds” of people around the earth to the “glorious good news about the Christ.” islam appeals to humans’ worst traits, abuses and distorts the gifts God gave mankind.
The demons, in the very beginning of their disobedience, went after women in a way they knew to be wrong. That continues today, as you stated.
Mr Paliologos says
They have completely different wishes and characteristics, why would they be the same God?
Allah is a vengeful, bloodthirsty and utterly evil moon demon whose “teachings” are as far as it is possible to get from those of Christ; A malicious invention of nasty desert tribes or an agent of the devil, depending on your own belief.
Thomas Hendricks says
As a Christian I refuse to believe that I have the same GOD as Muhammad the adulterer,murderer,rapist & slave master.Islam is a made up religion, it is all about islamization and control of everything and everyone it comes into contact with. Just look at some European Cities that have become more and more Islamized and the worsening crime and terrorism rates that go hand in had with that. Trump was right we must restrict muslim immigration until we understand whats going on and until things (hatred for the West) in muslim countries cool down which will take 50-100 years at minimum.
scherado says
“The flip side to Dawkins’ point is that Western Civilization might indeed be warranted in protecting Christian culture against Islam and jihad.”
The reason it is warranted definitely is that there was no effectual replacement offered and installed after Christianity was “removed”. (I have used a single sentence to convey that what was initiated with “Enlightenment” and resulted in the current spiritual void and turmoil, “Secularism” or “Humanism”, leads to the conclusion that the Christian model is preferable to what is essentially a Nihilistic result.)
“In a rare moment of candor, Dawkins reluctantly accepted that the teachings of Jesus Christ do not lead to a world of terror, whereas followers of radical Islam perpetrate the very atrocities that he laments.”
False: “the teachings of Jesus Christ” did “lead to a world of terror”. That ended. If Enlightenment ended that terror, then my proposition is supported. Secondly, if anyone believes that the same result is impossible in future–a “world of terror” created by religious Westerners–, then I do not believe that that person understands the current intellectual state of the Species.
Under one conception of “God” as deity of faith (unproved), Islam and Christianity have the same type of god. If the comparison of doctrinal conception is the measure, then they can not have the same God–the difference being based exactly in the different conceptions of Jesus Christ. The difference is not found in the present-day lack of terror being committed by Christians.
Does anyone recognize a difference between Atheist and Agnostic?
Angemon says
scherado posted:
“False: “the teachings of Jesus Christ” did “lead to a world of terror”. That ended.”
Who ended it?
scherado says
Would it be better to take issue with “did” “lead to” or that Dawkins did actually “reluctantly accept” something or other?
Angemon says
You stated that the teachings of Jesus Christ did lead to a world of terror and that ended. Who ended it? It’s a simple question.
scherado says
Please note the presence of quotation marks surrounding the two phrases that you assert that I stated. Do you follow?
scherado says
When a term or phrase is bounded by quotes, it either requires definition or the definition is disputed; or that which is bounded needs explanation, elaboration or qualification.
I’m very precise when I write. Your question is far from simple. Do you follow?
Angemon says
scherado posted:
“When a term or phrase is bounded by quotes, it either requires definition or the definition is disputed; or that which is bounded needs explanation, elaboration or qualification.
I’m very precise when I write.”
Your first paragraph (not to mention your previous posts) is evidence to the contrary. Anyway, my question still stands.
Mathew Solo says
scherado…You are in over Your head with Angemon…answer the question or turn the page.
There is proof that God exists…if anyone here wants to hear more let me know…I’ll point to
some proof.
Wakeup says
I have been thinking about this stuff for a long time and here is my perspective as a Christian. I see people of other religions such as my Hindu friends as being on a journey towards the truth of discovering Jesus and a completely new life. I was baptised a Christian but I cannot say I was a Christian until I had what I called a religious experience I am going to stop calling it that from this moment forward. I identified in myself that this experience was about Jesus Christ and I have heard Christians use the term “an encounter with Jesus” this is the term I will use in future,YOU HAVE TO BE CLEAR ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEAN.
So to the same God question and then nature of God. My son became ill with very serious depression and my gut feeling was that I had to get him out of this society and to a more positive place among my Christian Philippino wife’s side of the family. I hauled him off to the Philippines and a lot of people including a remarkable man Pastor Henry of Talikud Island prayed for him and he got better you could say the love of Christ touched him through other people.
This whole experience taught me something about the nature of God the very painful experience of standing over my son as he was asleep praying for him and knowing he was in a living hell made me realize this is how God feels about us and to use his other name, Jesus loves you capish?
So to this allah and the claim that he is God totally the opposite hateful and I have noticed two discrepancies. How is it that mohammed’s father is called abdulla “slave of allah” the koran doesn’t mention the name allah until it is about one third through. Suggests to me that allah is a pretty existing pagan god amongst a bunch of gods that mohamed sets up as the singular God the best candidate would be a particularly moon god. The next discrepancy would be the expression ‘allah o akbar’ presented as meaning God is great but actually meaning “allah is greater”. ” YOU HAVE TO SAY EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEAN” what is mohamed saying this allah is greater than? I believe he has chosen the moon god and promoted him as the one god and himself as his profit. Maybe allah was a nasty piece of work so he appealed to mohamed or maybe he gave allah an image make over to suit his purposes.
So in conclusion I would like to say three things.
Jesus loves you, allah is not God and please please start closing that Pandora’s box and VOTE FOR TRUMP.
Jesus be with you.
Never A Dhimmi says
The problem is described the wrong way.
If you think that “Jesus is god”, NO ONE except Xtians believe that…
If you think that God is not ONE, but some three-prongs entity made of father, son and holy spirit, only Xtians believe that…
Riley says
Allah is the Anti-God, the Fallen one, the one angle so beautiful that he was more beautiful then the Crescent moon, therefore the Star and Crescent moon of islam. Allah hates all that is Yahweh create therefore no images of Man and Man’s companion must be covered up. Allah also hates a joyous noise in praise of the one true GOD, who loves it, singing, music and dancing for GOD’s Glory. Allah is in total joy of the deaths of millions especially the people of the book, Christians and Jews, and muslims. Anything that destroys GOD’s Creations Allah praises and encourages. To my muslim citizens time to walk away from the cult of islam and seek another way to GOD, the Creator, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Sing Glory to Yahweh, “Amazing Grace How Sweet the Sound”
WorkingClassPost says
OK, I’ve had a good night’s sleep, and got over my moral indignation that anyone could really consider this same God thesis a possibility, and should need then to justify that understanding, but on reflection I accept that this is a valid question, so, here goes.
By definition, I guess it’s subjectively true that those who believe in one God and Creator must worship, pray to, or acknowledge the same, one God.
Objectively though, is the God that they describe really the same?
Put another way, could a loving and benevolent Father also be a corrupt and vindictive tormentor?
Christians will say no, of course not, while Muslims will say yes, and add further that the nasty part is the stronger and therefore takes precedence.
But could this be? To explore this, let’s look at some real world examples recently carried here at JW.
So we take a dog, a simple four legged and furry creature, which is exactly the same dog, whether viewed by a Muslim or non-Muslim, yet the Muzzie sees a hated demonic beast, while most others (at least those who do not see a meal) will find a loving and able companion, ready to defend and comfort and asking only food and affection in return.
Surely we say, it is still actually the same creature. But this may not be true, for in true quantum fashion, the animal changes according to our view and perception of it, because, while we fondly stroke our cuddle-some buddy, as he lays his obedient head in our welcoming lap, we do well to reflect, that an abusive and dog-hating Muslim, will probably find that same dog in a similar position is about to bite his balls.
Foul you cry! Dogs are an unfair example because we treat them differently.
All right, then, lets look at something less controversial. Another story carried recently, was about that respected and distinguished creature, the camel. A fine beast and much loved by Muslims, and, although we know them less well, they must be a favourite of ours too, and as we stand side by side with our Muslim brothers, we both share the same feeling of admiration for such a distinctive feat of evolution, until it urinates and the Muslim cups his hands to gather and swig the piss which splatters and spills around his lips and face and we recoil in disgust.
But it is still the same camel, and still the same urine that discharges and is evaporated by the sun, or fallen to be absorbed by the dry and dusty desert sands, except that much of it that our Arab friend has not already drunk or perhaps bottled for resale at a later date.
Again you cry fault. It is not right to ridicule the sincere beliefs and customs of another in this way, and that is true; we should all take very seriously the differences in convictions of others.
So let’s take another story that I’m sure JW covered extensively last year, which was the centennial anniversary of the Turkish slaughter of a million or so Armenian Christians, to taunts of ‘Where is your Jesus now?’.
Perhaps Erdogan and his ilk can explain why that was done, and which god it was that called for such profane cruelty, because it was surely no God of mine.
dsinc says
The Muslim battle cry Allahu-Akbar means their god, Allah, is greater than the Christian god so how can they be the same god? The Christian god is obviously in the heavens above but the Muslims don’t know where their Allah is. First, they stand and look into their hands but don’t see him so they get down on their hands and knees and look for him in the carpet. As they don’t see him there they stand up and look in their hands again, repeating their search. Counting is also a problem for their Allah because the imam’s are forever telling Allah to count all the Jews before killing them, like Allah doesn’t know how many Jews there are and has to count them every day so he doesn’t make any mistakes. Allah seems to have no problem convincing the worst of people that they are the best of people and are entitled to enslave and kill all who don’t believe in Allah, causing the biggest crime against humanity the inhabitants of this planet have ever had to suffer from. Anyway, the sooner Islam is thrown into the dirtbox of history, the better for mankind.
somehistory says
I hope you don’t mind that I laughed at the description of their “search.”
Donna says
Nailed it.
Stephanie says
“Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God?” has always sounded like an incorrect question to me, because there is only one God and people either worship him or they don’t. The question implies that there might be more than one God. To Christians, Muslims no do not worship him because Christians believe that Jesus is the revelation of God in a human body so if you do not worship Jesus as Lord you do not worship God.
If what they mean to ask is, “Do Christians and Muslims have the same concept of God?” then the answer would also be no, if we want to compare the depiction of God in the Bible with the depiction of God in the Quran. However, a Muslim with an insufficient knowledge of the Quran may by nature have a conception of God that is similar to the concept of God in the Bible.
If what they mean to ask is, “According to Christianity can a Muslim be in a state of friendship with God and attain salvation?” only God knows the state of someone’s heart upon death and how they responded to the light that that they had, but as a Christian I would find it dangerous to presume.
Screeminmeeme says
While the Bible teaches that there is only One True God, it also teaches that since the time of the Fall, rebellious mankind has fabricated countless ”gods” to serve their wicked purposes. The Apostle Paul says that while there are ”gods many and lords many” there is only ”ONE GOD by nature.” (1 Cor 8:4-6, Gal 4;8)
That Triune God manifested Himself to men, giving them revelations about Himself, about man’s past, present and future. And He revealed that Jesus’ death and resurrection…..a perfect sacrifice…. paid for all of the sins of all of mankind. He is the only means to salvation (John 14:6) and only by assenting to that fact and receiving Him as Savior (Rom 10:9) can one be spared eternal punishment and given the gift of eternal life.
These are things that the Devil wants to keep suppressed…..indeed works against those who convey the blessed Message of Hope. It’s the reason he created Islam with its appeal to the flesh and the depraved proclivities of sinful man. Islam’s false view of Christ alone shows that the God of the Bible and the ”god” of Islam cannot be the same.
Nevertheless, in obedience to Christ’s teaching, Christians should care enough about the souls of the lost…..including Muslims… to tell them the ”Good News” of the Gospel. . Otherwise, Salvation is impossible to those who haven’t heard.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
c matt says
Exactly – “same God” question is a distraction. Anyone professing monotheism is obviously directing his worship (however deficient) to the one God. What we really need to examine is who has the correct understanding of God and what He expects of us.
Screeminmeeme says
The question…… ”Do Christians and Muslims worship the same ”God”?….. is easily answered. All it takes is reading the Bible and the Quran and comparing the two, and any intellectually honest person will admit that they are polar opposites, in contradiction to each other. Most glaring, though, are the distinctive characteristics which clearly separate Jehovah God…the loving and Holy Triune God of the Bible…..from Allah….the capricious, bloodthirsty, vindictive ‘god’ of Islam.
Since the Christian faith is based on the fact that Jesus Christ was not only the Son of God but God the Son, then Islam’s denial of His deity and the crucifixion and resurrection proves that the ”god” of Islam CANNOT BE the God of the Bible.
Jesus is the Creator of the Universe…. the Savior of all men….the ‘First and the Last”….the Redeemer…..the One who voluntarily went to the cross and laid down His life for mankind…..and the One before whom the world will ultimately bow. To say that Jesus, who was Incarnate Truth, was just another man……a man who will return at the time of the Mahdi and confess that he is a Muslim who had lied by claiming to be God….is blasphemous and of the spirit of anti-Christ.
Indeed, Islam’s objective of destroying Christianity (and every other faith) exposes it for the demonic ideology that it is.
c matt says
Then what about the Jewish God? They also deny the trinitarian nature of God. So is the Jewish God also not the “God of the Bible?”
Kepha says
Kudos to Wheaton College for standing up for its professed beliefs.
Of course Wheaton will take flack for its removal of Prof. Lawrycia Hawkins over actions and statements that suggest Islamicization while working for an institution specifically established to promote Evangelical Christianity. The institution’s concerns that the bare monad Allah is not the same as the three-in-one worshiped by Christians has already drawn flack from an array of ecumenicists, secularists determined to embarrass traditional Christians at every opportunity, Muslims, and those concerned that the truth claims of any religion may be potentially disastrous for civic peace (while simultaneously turning a blind eye to other dangers posed by secular political ideologies). However, we may hope that this controversy may lead many to recognize that theological doctrines can and do make a difference.
But would the liberal commentariat that now excorciates Wheaton College for its disciplining Prof. Hawkins show a similar solicitude for a Muslim ‘alim who one day stands up wearing a large “N” for “Nasrani” on his breast who declares, “God indeed begot a son, and his name is Isa al-Masih, who died on the cross for our sins and was shown to be truly son of God through his resurrection”? Before we go much further, in a core Islamic country, such a man would forfeit not only his position, but probably his life.
Our age is marked by a three-way cynicism in which ordinary people believe all religions to be equally true, the intellectuals believe all religions to be equally false, and the politicians believe them all equally useful. The historians of religion, by identifying Judaism, Christianity, and Islam as three “Abrahamic” religions have fostered the assumption that the three worship the same God under different names; perhaps abetted by the Unitarian takeover of a number of American Calvinist institutions during the early 19th century. Since the events of September 11, 2001, or perhaps even the Iranian Revolution of 1979, with the world of Islam and a post-Christian Western world rolling towards what seems to be an inevitable collision, the idea that the three “Abrahamic” religions worship the same God has come to seem non-negotiable for the sake of civic and international peace.
Yet is this assumption of a common God true?
Since Muslim spokesmen have been the most insistent that the God of Muhammad is the same as the God of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus, let us start with Islam’s own theology.
They say, “Allah has begotten a son.” Allah forbid! Self-sufficient is He. His is all that the heavens and earth contain. Surely for this you have no sanction. Would you say of Allah what you do not know? (Qur’an 10:68ff., Dawood translation).
Those who say: ‘The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,’ preach a monstrous falsehood, at which the very heavens might crack, the earth break asunder, and the mountains crumble to dust. That they should ascribe a son to the Merciful, when it does not become Him to beget one! (Qur’an 19:88,Dawood).
Unbelievers are those who declare: ‘Allah is the Messiah, the Son of Mary.’ (Qur’an 5:17, Dawood)
Whether or not the Qur’anic author understood what Christian theologians meant in describing Jesus Christ as the monogenesis (only-begotten) Son of God, or the Bible’s language describing the Messiah with the language “Thou art my son, this day I have begotten thee” (Psalm 2:7; Acts 13:33) is a separate question, but it is clear that Christian beliefs are censured in these Qur’anic passages. Clearly Qur’an 10:68 and 19:88 attack the Christian description of Jesus-Christ as “begotten of the Father”; while Qur’an 5:17 contradicts the Christian doctrine that Jesus Christ is fully God as well as fully man. Hence, at the outset, it is clear that Islam’s foundational text accuses orthodox Christian beliefs about the person of Jesus Christ to be monstrous and unbelief.
The importance of such texts in shaping the Islamic understanding of Christianity is evident in the charge of shirk—polytheism, or ascribing partners to Allah—leveled at Christians both in Islamic polemics and in justifications given for the ongoing persecution of Christians in Islamic countries.
What do Christians mean by the terms which have provoked such a reaction among Muslims, beginning with the Qur’an itself?
At the beginning, the term “begotten” does not mean that Jesus Christ was conceived by a drop of divine seminal fluid by a deity with an overgrown or glorified human body. The Greek fathers who defined orthodoxy in the early Christian centuries used the term “only-begotten” to describe how Jesus’ sonship is of a unique variety that shares in the nature and essence of the Godhead, as opposed to the adoptive sonship enjoyed by believers. Hence, these early writers saw no contradiction in speaking of the “eternal generation” of the Son, for they meant that the Second Person was co-eternal with the Father and Spirit. Whereas Islam, and Judaism after Maimonides, saw the unity of God as a bare monad, Christian theology saw the unity of God as an eternal living richness, a composite of the Father, Word (Son), and Spirit.
In the Bible, the language of begetting used in Christian theology comes from Psalm 2:7:
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my son; this day have I begotten thee.
The Psalm uses this of the Israelite King of David’s line, the anointed of God—which, in Hebrew, is M’shiach, the source of our English word Messiah. This, in turn, reflects the divine promises to David and his line that “I [God] will be his father and he shall be my son” (II Sam. 7:14). This describes a covenant God has made not with the whole house of Israel, but specifically with David’s house. In this, David and his descendants are the covenant heads or representatives before God of the whole community of which God says, “Israel is my son, my first-born, and I have said unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me.” (Ex. 4:22-23).
To Christians, the first distinctive belief is that all of God’s promises to David (and, by extension, to Israel and all humanity) are fulfilled in the work of Jesus Christ. Interestingly, the first use of Psalm 2:7 in Christian preaching is not to describe the unique divine-human nature of Christ, but in Paul’s proclaiming the power of Jesus over all things, including death itself:
And we bring you good tidings of the promise made unto the fathers, that God hath fulfilled the same unto our children in that he raised up Jesus: as it is written in the second psalm, Thou art my son, this day I have begotten thee. (Acts 13:33).
… declared to be the Son of God with power according to the spirit of holiness, by his resurrection from the dead , even Jesus Christ our Lord. (Rom 1:4).
Hence, the idea that God has “begotten” a son—albeit from the dead rather than the flesh of Mary—is a central part of New Testament teaching.
Of course, this is also related to the New Testament’s teaching that God is a composite unity of Father, Word (Son), and Holy Spirit (not God, Jesus, and Mary, as the Qur’an falsely accuses Christians at 5:116) rather than a bare monad; as fond in the Johannine prologue, the baptismal formula of Matthew 28:19 and Galatians 4:4-7).
Hence, from the witness of the sacred books of both religions, it is clear that there are very different beliefs about the God who is to be worshiped. Traditions of theology in both Christianity and Islam have long understood and expounded these differences. The administration of Wheaton College is not being bigoted by declaring the Islamic God a different one from the Christian God, but faithful to its own understanding of what the implications of biblical language, Qur’anic language, and Trinitarian doctrine are.
There is, of course, an alternative. Famously, Raymond Lully, the great Catalan mystic, missionary, and Arabist of the Middle Ages held that Christians and Muslims worship the same God. However, this was not the a precursor of the mushy ecumenicism of the liberal age, but a recognition of both Islam’s professed striving after the God who spoke by the prophets and of how that true God may be worshiped in a false manner. Lully may charitably be seen as echoing Paul’s teaching that the unbelieving Jews of his day had a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge (Rom. 10:2) or that some of the pagan Athenians worshiped in their “unknown god” the God whom Paul proclaimed (Acts. 17:23). As missionaries rather than ecumenicists, Lully and Paul before him saw their task not as finding hidden universals behind “another great religion”, but in clarifying how God has spoken to man—through his Son (Heb. 1:2).
Another alternative is that Muhammad’s understanding of the God whom Christians worshiped and his presentation in such ayat as 5:116 represents a serious misunderstanding as misinterpretation. Yet this, too, cannot change how the religions stemming from the Old and New Testaments on the one hand and the Qur’an and Hadith on the other differ in their assessments of man’s relationship to God and the nature of God himself.
The Wheaton administration and other thinking Evangelicals understand that there are important differences in what and how Christians and Muslims respectively believe. Committed to the distinctiveness of the Christian religion, they cannot but discipline Prof. Hawkins for identifying with Muslims and obscuring the distinctions. In this, they have bucked the Unitarian consensus that Christians and Muslims worship the same God and the three-way cynicism about religion marking our age.
Richard P, Sweden says
In Armenia You cannot wear a necklace with a cross.
Terrible with islam expanding in the western world.
gravenimage says
Richard, Armenia is *not* a Muslim country. It was, in fact, founded as a sanctuary for Christian victims of the Armenian Genocide.
Richard P, Sweden says
Good Christians. Charles Martel. Isabella and Ferfdinand. Jan Sobieski and Eugen of Savoi.
Jan Aage Jeppesen says
The first Christian theologian who thought deeply about the same God question was Martin Luther. He concluded that Islam was a Christian heresy, a religion which could only exist where Christianity had been before. He also defined the Muslim God as the devil.
The Augsburg Confession from 1530, also known as the “Augustana” from its Latin name, Confessio Augustana, is the primary confession of faith of the Lutheran Church and one of the most important documents of the Lutheran Reformation. The first Article defines the Christian God, and ad Islam to the classical list of heresies against this article of faith:
“They condemn all heresies which have sprung up against this Article, as the Manichees, who set down two principles, good and evil; in the same manner the Valentinians, Arians, Eunomians, Mohammedans, and all such like. They condemn also the Samosatenes, old and new; who, when they earnestly contend that there is but one person, do craftily and wickedly trifle, after the manner of rhetoricians, about the Word and Holy Ghost, that they are not distinct persons, but that the Word signifies a vocal word, and the Spirit a motion created in things.”
So Protestants should have no problem answering the “same God question”. Catholic theologians are not as clear as Luther. They see Islam as an inferior religion, but not as a Christian heresy:
“It is hardly necessary here to emphasize the fact that the ethics of Islam are far inferior to those of Judaism and even more inferior to those of the New Testament. …
That in the ethics of Islam there is a great deal to admire and to approve is beyond dispute; but of originality or superiority, there is none. What is really good in Mohammedan ethics is either commonplace or borrowed from some other religions, whereas what is characteristic is nearly always imperfect or wicked. …”
(Quote from main article about Islam in the Catholic Encyclopedia, 1917).
Kepha says
Very good point, Jan. Those of us whose confessional statements are the Westminster Standards (1647) may not have Islam mentioned by name as a heresy to be condemned, but we have the same clear statements about the incarnation and Trinity.
Joe says
It is really unproductive to ask the question, “Is it the same God?”. Much more productive is to ask the questions: “What sort of behavior does the God of Christianity require of Christians? What sort of behavior does the God of Judaism require of Jews? And, what sort of behavior does Allah require of Muslims?” The answers to these questions are objective because they are found in the Gospels, the Torah and the Koran. All we need do is compare those three sets of behaviors required of believers, and we see right away that the behavior required of religious Moslems is very, very different from the behavior required of Christians and Jews.
DiogenesUSA says
For the definitive answer to this question, I highly recommend the award winning book;
Allah of the Qur’an and the God of the Bible “Are They the Same?”
It is available at amazon.com and other online book services.
firefox says
The best comical* proof I have heard came from a cartoon series promoted recently on Pamela Geller’s website “Atlas Shrugs”. The comic book is titled: “Mohammed’s Believe It or Else” (www.hissheep.org). It speaks to the ways of Islam with quotes taken directly from the Koran, Haddith’s, and Sunna’s. It is well worth the read.
*comical: I only say ‘comical’ because when some Islamic quotes are given serious review and analysis, they can appear near comical. But a disturbing reality exists for Muslims where after becoming a Muslim. If you then doubt or question anything about Mohammed, or anything written in the Koran, it is considered blasphemy and/or apostacy and is punishable by your death – hence the “Believe It Or Else” schtick in the name of the comic book. It would be funny if it wasn’t taken with such absolute seriousness by pious Muslim followers (radical Islamic extremists).
I see evil in Islam’s tenants, but no where more clearly than in the actions of some Muslim men (think today’s Europe and the near daily barbaric acts). Islam is totally mysogenistic and disrespectful toward women, especially non-Muslim women. Women are inferior, good only for sex on demand, house cleaning and child-bearing; and can be beaten or raped or killed if the man ‘feels’ offended. Islam is intolerant of anyone or anything not Islamic. Muslim men are brought up to hate, to kill, and to terrorize in the name of Allah for the Jihad of Islam’s world domination. And as Muslim men live as this, they are considered a good Muslim earning his way toward Jenna and the reward of 72 personal virgins, rivers of wine, and being endowed with the sexual stamina of 100 men. Just don’t think, doubt, or question anything.
The more I learn about Islam and hear of the attrocities commited under Islam’s dictates, the more convinced I become that the Allah of Islam is Satan.
Keys says
To John Harvey –
I am Catholic, but do not believe that the god of Islam is the same God as Catholics worship. That some Catholic authorities, including some bishops and popes, are teaching this has caused much cognitive dissonance in regard to my Church.
Many excellent comments here certainly must cause you some cognitive dissonance, if you truely believe in your heart that they are the same God.
However, in regard to your main point: my mind can not accept your argument that the essence of Islam’s god and the orthodox Christian God is the same primarily because our God is One, is the Creator, and is the God of Abraham.
Catholics, as have most Christians, have also always believed that the essence of God includes BEING all Good; the God of Life and Truth; and most essentially, that God is Love.
I do not, and can not, find the essence (or the essential source) of goodness, life, truth, and love in the god of Islam.
Do you?
On the contrary (to use a phrase from Thomistic thought) is in not blasphemy to claim that the God of the Christian faith and the god of Islam are the same?
Edward says
Has anybody wondered why Islam rejects the” Image of God “concept?
http://www.iqrasense.com/allah/islamic-viewpoint-on-god-made-man-in-his-own-image.html
“Islam does not agree with this statement. Allah (SWT), God, has attributes which belong to Him alone, such as His being the Creator, the Provider, the One God, etc. These are characteristics which a created being cannot acquire [….]”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_of_God#Historical_context
Simply put: [It] “is evident in Augustine’s assertion that the human mind was the location of humanity, and thus the location of the image of God.”
Can we conclude that “Allah” ……..Islam’s chosen god does not consider its adherents as human beings…..not being endowed with free wills as a LOVING GOD would gift His creations!~
Saying: they revere a tyrannical god with 99 self-professed attributes!
http://www.al-islam.org/allah-the-concept-of-god-in-islam-a-selection-yasin-al-jibouri/ninety-nine-attributes-allah
In contrast: Jesus who came to reveal the “God of the Bible attributes.
http://www.allaboutgod.com/attributes-of-god.htm
Is Allah the god mentioned in the Quran or is the god mentioned in the New Testament the real God…..the actual creator of the universe and its humanity in it?
Mark says
Please view and share the following video, it shows the danger of Islam. https://youtu.be/t_Qpy0mXg8Y This next video is also worth watching. It deals with the credibility of Christianity. https://youtu.be/t_Qpy0mXg8Y
The West has replaced children with consumer products. Child rearing has become a costly time consuming hobby. The time may be coming when having enough children to support us will be the only retirement security we will have.
duh_swami says
‘If God causes all this suffering, he can’t be good,, and if he is powerless to stop it, he can’t be God’…Buddha..
I think I will stay with Buddha on that one…
Ellie says
Seems to me that islam itself is the power of antichrist as 2Thessalonians 2:7-12 seems to suggest
gravenimage says
The ‘Same God’ Question (Part 1)
Why the wrong answer is killing the West, including America
………………………….
Anyone reading the Bible and the Qur’an can see that the vicious “Allah” has *nothing* to do with God of the Bible.
Ivan Erickson says
ICE again writes:
SIX IRREFUTABLE PREMISES ON THE CHRISTIAN VS THE ISLAMIC FAITHS:
1. The first important premise to address is regarding the belief of the beloved people of the Islam faith – as well as by many people of other faiths – that professes that Allah is the same God as the God of the Jews and the Christians. To prove as succinctly as possible that this is not the Truth, I will ask you the following question, that you may seek the answers to this falsity in the heart of your own soul: If Allah is the same God as the One True God of the Christians and the Jews, why does Allah deny repeatedly throughout the Koran that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God, when God Himself prophesied 60 times and mentioned over 300 times in the Old Testament the future coming of a Messiah, a Suffering Servant, His Son, who would die on the cross for the salvation of all mankind? Would God prophesy the coming of His Son, a Messiah and Savior, only to deny Him through Mohammed, who professed to speak for Allah? Would this not make God a liar?
2. The second premise to address is the Islam belief that Jesus Christ was only a prophet – that He was not deity or the only Begotten Son of God. In 1 John, 2:18-23 we read: “Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that the Antichrist was coming, so now many Antichrists have appeared. Thus we know this is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number. But you have the anointing that comes from the holy one, and you all have knowledge. I write to you not because you do not know the truth but because you do, and because every lie is alien to the truth. Who is the liar? Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies the Father and the Son, this is the Antichrist. No one who denies the Son has the Father, but whoever confesses the Son has the Father as well.”in 1 John 4, 1-3 we read: “Beloved, do not trust every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they belong to God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can know the Spirit of God: every spirit that acknowledges Jesus Christ come in the flesh belongs to God, and every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus does not belong to God. This is the spirit of the Antichrist that, as you heard, is to come, but in fact is already in the world.”ii Also, Jesus Christ professed many times in the Gospel that He was the Messiah, the only Son of God the Father. If the Islam faithful sincerely believes that Jesus was a Prophet, how can they at the same time not believe that He was God’s Son? – For a prophet is one who speaks the Truth for God, you see.
3. The third premise that I wish to address is the Islam belief that Mohammed was the final prophet of Allah, and that he was inspired through the angel Gabriel to change God’s previous words of the Holy Bible in order to bring mankind His final words. After Mohammed’s death, Mohammed’s words were later written in their book called the Koran. The Koran, as you know, professes to contain four God-inspired books: the Torah of Moses; the Zabur (Psalms of David); the Injil (Gospel) of Jesus; and the Koran. In changing, deleting and adding to the Inspired words of God’s Holy Bible, Mohammed and his followers committed a grievous sin against God! In Revelation 22:18, 19 we read: “I warn everyone who hears the prophetic words in this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words in this prophetic book, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city described in this book. Mohammed and his cohorts did not merely add to or take away God’s words of His prophetic Book! They deleted the entire Book of Revelation, as well as most of the other Holy Books of the Bible! I sincerely believe that Jesus was stating that we must not add to, delete, or to desecrate any of the Holy words of the entire Old and New Testaments of the Bible, for He, being the Son of God, certainly knew that Revelation was the last Book of the Bible and was most likely speaking of the entire Bible as “The Book.” And please do not counter by rationalizing that the God changed His own laws and words via the alleged angel Gabriel and Mohammed! Jesus Christ, speaking for God, knew that the Islams, Mormons, and people of other false faiths would attempt to change, delete, or to deny God’s laws, words and Scripture in the future! This is why Jesus stated emphatically that He is the end of the law!
4. The fourth premise that I will address is regarding the alleged angel Gabriel who purportedly instilled Mohammed with Allah’s messages given to him over an approximate 22-year period with the words that later became the Koran. The alleged angel Gabriel repeatedly denied that Jesus was the Son of God! However, the true angel Gabriel, speaking to Mary the Mother of Jesus in Luke, 1:31-33 states the following: “‘Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus. He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father, and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.’”iv God, in His infinite wisdom, does not have to give two of His angels the same name – He surely has given each of them a personal, special name, as He will do for all those whom enter God’s kingdom. So, how then can one reputed angel Gabriel of the Koran deny repeatedly that Jesus is God’s Son, when the true angel Gabriel that appeared over 5 centuries earlier had called Jesus “Son of the Most High”?
5. The fifth premise is regarding the utilization by Mohammed and subsequently by the entire Islamic faithful of: the God of the Jews and the Christians; Abraham; the prophets; and a semblance of the One True God’s Holy Scripture in the Koran. Why did not the author of the Koran use his own text and credos, as the Hindus and the Buddhists have done? The reason that the author of the Koran utilized this ploy was so that a semblance of Truth, or a certain credence and correlation would be portrayed to the Muslim-Islams, in order that from that time onward they may more easily be duped and led away from the Truth and the Light when they read or heard the words of the Koran.
6. The sixth premise, Reverend Ann, is regarding your sincere belief that you can be an adherent of both the Christian and the Islam faiths. This, as you were made aware of in the above premises, is impossible, as the two religions are diametrically opposed to one another. For you must understand that the Christian faith stems from the words of Truth and Light of the One True God who Lives – the One Whom has proven to be the One True God; for He is the only God who is able to prophesy infallibly those many things to come throughout the history of mankind and even until the end of the age. The Islam faith, on the other hand, stems from the Antichrist of which was revealed to you above from the words of God in 1 John. Also, in 1 Corinthians, 10:14-22 we read: “Therefore, my beloved, avoid idolatry. I am speaking as to a sensible people; judge for yourselves what I am saying. The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? Because the loaf of bread is one, we, though many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf.
Look at Israel according to the flesh; are not those who eat the sacrifices participants in the altar? So what am I saying? That meat sacrificed to idols is anything? Or that an idol is anything? No, I mean that what they sacrifice, [they sacrifice] to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to become participants with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and also the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and of the table of demons. Or are we provoking the Lord to jealous anger? Are we stronger than he?”v
May the one True God Who Lives bless all people of all faiths & races throughout the world in all things always.
ICE
Mathew Solo says
Ivan Erickson…You are Trurely a Breath of Fresh Air…thank You for Your Time in Writing this.
a fool says
“The tree is known by its fruits.” Therefore, same trees can not bear different furits. If the fruits are different, then, the trees are not the Same! Therefore, no God could ever accepts fruits which are not bore with His Will that is; “To love thy neighbor as thyself.” and “Thou shall not kill!” Any god who promotes Murder and encourge whose faithfuls to Sin agianst whose neighbor could never be the same God as our heavenly Fahter Jahweh Who IS LOVE AND MERCY, HE IS THE AUTHOR OF LIFE!
a fool says
AFter the Fall of Men, the human biengs from that moment onward were, are and will be under the inflence of God and Satan! The grace that Adam and Eve enjoyed were totlly lost when the eat that Forbidden Fruit. Evil entered into them! They last all the grace, intelligence, beautty and living in Paradise! “I will put an enmity between your seeds and her seeds.” the root of Diference between the two seeds. Thus, there weill be peace on earth, unless one lives as the angels sang on The Frist Crhistmas: “Glory to God in the hieghest and ‘peace to men of good well!’” without Good Will within the self, there will be no peace.
Zbig Marchewka says
Same God? Not even close!
Muslim’s pray to a moon God (Idolity)!
Read, http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm
How some educated people get it wrong?
Mark Swan says
This poor mixed up human is the product of Affirmative Action…the fast track to Swell…her thinking
is influenced by how she can get attention…She says she contacted CAIR…You don’t suppose they
helped encourage this.
c matt says
Why the wrong answer is killing the West, including America
It’s not the wrong answer that’s killing America, it’s the wrong question. The answer to whether Muslims and Christians worship the same is God is simple – yes they do. They both profess to worship the unique, one and only Creator of the universe. If we both believe there is only one Creator, then by necessity we are referring our worship to that one Creator (there is no other “Creator” to be referring to).
The question that should be asked is whose understanding of God is correct? That then leads to understanding what God expects of us – love your neighbor, or go all jihad on him. But then, that forces you to – gasp – make judgment calls, and even decide that one is wrong and one is right. Heaven forbid! You would have to tell that nice Muslim kebab seller that he is in fact wrong about God, that he is not worshiping Him correctly, and that ol’ Mo was either deluded or evil, or a combination of the foregoing.
And it wouldn’t stop there – you would also have to tell Jewish people that they are wrong, and yes, you missed the Messiah, and even amongst us Christians, we would have to determine who has it right, since on many things we are saying the exact opposite (divorce is ok or not? Homosexuality is a sin, or not?). Better to just stick to the “same God” question, and let the really hard stuff remain ignored. Much more polite that way.
Ivan Erickson says
ICE
Reply to C. Matt:
Please read my article entitled:Six Irrefutable Premises Regarding the Christian & Islamic Faiths” in the comment section. If you can successfully refute one or more of my premises, which all are based on the Word of the One True God Who Lives, please do so under comments.
God bless you and all those of all faiths & ethnicity’s who are seeking the Truth & Light of the One True God. We must all pray for the conversion of all sinners.
ICE
A Fool says
When God breathed into the nostrils of the clay form of His Image, that clay form immidiately became a living breathing human being. That breath was the onset of the Immortlity of every human soul. Becaue it was part of God Himslef! He gave us His Immotality through that Breath of Perfect Love! Beasue He is perfection. That was the reason He calls us His children! Eery child is a part whose parents! The Disobedience of Adam and Eve caused the Separation between God amd mankind! Becaue of His perfect love for us, His Breath, with His infiite love for us He already had a plan made how to bring humang souls beack to Himself! “I will enmity between your seeds and her seeds. She shall crash your head and you will try to bite her heel.” The Immaculate Conception of Mary, the Mother of God was so ordained. “God is light, in Him there is no darkness, none at all.” Sin is Darkness, no one who has any sign of Sin could be qualified to enter heaven to be with The Perfect of Light of the Father! Thus, Mother Mary, the Virgin Mother of Jesus the God-Man; the Mothe of God on earth must be established for She to be born in the Fullness of God’t time, that was when the Human Race woudl be ready to have needed “knowlledge of Good and Evil.” That was a long process! After God throw Adam and Eve out of the Paradise, they last all the grace form God, the body forms were ape like with tails. to this day, we all have the point in our bodies as “tail bone” joints. Human hd to eveolved from totally ignorance to understadning. to understadn the needed Path to retrun to God Our Father Who is LOVE. But, since it was disobdience that separted us. God gives every soul a chance to chose, to follow His Commandments and Live as His Physical Form in the Body of Jesus the Christ who was God-Man born of Virgin Mary, suffered and died under the hands of mendkind for the solvation of those who Chose to follow Jesus’ Way, Truth and Life to enter Heaven. It a chicie, if we love God and want to return Him, we must: “carry your corss and follow me.” That corss is made of the weaknesses of selfishness of all kinds, especially sodomy! He only wants those who love Him with complete obedience be how we each carries eachone’s cross. Solvation is as One on one choice, but only through the Gate of Jesus’ Way! None other! Anyone who loves God in His Spirit and In His turth with His LOVE will be reunited with Him in heavne by the Blood of Christ!
espe says
ISLAM; Is not a religion. Its a Political Ideology. Mohammad was a pedophile who married a six year old and consummated the marriage with her when she was nine years. old. Mohammad from the beginning, was a lunatic who heard voices and also claiming that an Angel appeared to him to give him his new found cult. Satan does and can appear as an Angel of light. He advocate violence throughout his rein especially conquering and beheading by the sword. Francis the pope actually stated that the religion of Islam is the same as Christianity ………he’s sadly mistaken……
Heather says
Professor? of what exactly? Pfffft to that. If you want to know what the true God is like read the Bible.
If you want to know what a devil is like, read the koran.
It is that simple.
God IS love and love DOES NOT tell people to murder. BUT the koran does!
Muslims like this woman are either: lying or
don’t know what the koran commands
The Torah and Bible TEN COMMANDMENTS says: DO NOT KILL, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT LIE
The koran says KILL, STEAL, LIE.
Notice how it’s ALWAYS muslims pretending that the koran is like the Bible.
No one who knows the Torah or Bible says the Koran is similar, BECAUSE IT IS NOT,. IT IS THE OPPOSITE.