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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Catholic Church tells bishops they are not obliged to disclose child sex abuse UPDATE: Church denies

Feb 12, 2016 12:43 pm By Robert Spencer

UPDATE: This report has a Vatican official claiming that Tony Anatrella didn’t mean what is being reported. That may be. But that he wrote it at all, after the Church has amassed such a terrible record regarding abuse cases, does not bode well.

———-

This is not an off-topic post. We have seen the thorough corruption of the bishops before: the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops received $79,590,512 in 2014 alone — that’s right, nearly 80 million dollars — from the federal government for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops Migration Fund. The bishops are actively encouraging the entry of Muslim migrants, among whom there will be an untold number of active jihad terrorists, into the U.S.

The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops has launched a National Catholic-Muslim Dialogue, partnering with groups linked to Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood.

Catholic bishops in the U.S. and elsewhere are silent about Muslim persecution of Christians, and boycott and silence those who dare to tell the truth about that persecution.

And now these two news items below. The level of corruption and moral outrage is off the charts. These are men who claim to be moral arbiters but who have completely lost their moral compass.

ITALY VATICAN POPE

“Catholic Church Tells Bishops They Are Not Obliged to Disclose Child Sex Abuse: Report,” by Rishi Iyengar, Time, February 11, 2016:

Report says the church has told prelates that decision should be made by the victims and their families

The Catholic Church is allegedly telling newly ordained bishops that they have no obligation to report child-sexual-abuse allegations to law-enforcement officials, saying instead that the decision to take such claims to the authorities should be left to victims and their families.

The policy was first reported by a veteran Vatican journalist at Catholic news website Crux, who cited a presentation given by French Monsignor Tony Anatrella.

Anatrella, a consultant to the Pontifical Council for the Family and the Pontifical Council for Health Care Workers, also authored a training document for new bishops released by Church authorities last week, in which similar guidelines are laid out.

“According to the state of civil laws of each country where reporting is obligatory, it is not necessarily the duty of the bishop to report suspects to authorities, the police or state prosecutors in the moment when they are made aware of crimes or sinful deeds,” his document states, according to a citation in the Guardian….

And then there’s John Feit, a priest who murdered a woman. His superiors knew about it, and instead of reporting him to police, moved him around and covered up the crime: “Ex-Priest Is Arrested in 1960 Killing of Texas Beauty Queen,” by Fernanda Santos, New York Times, February 11, 2016:

SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. — She had a disarming combination of beauty and intelligence and, in her short life, amassed a collection of accomplishments and firsts: first Hispanic twirler at a majority-Anglo high school on the Texas-Mexico border, first in her family to go to college, homecoming queen and, in 1958, Miss All South Texas Sweetheart.

Irene Garza, 25, was working as a grade-school teacher when she was killed 56 years ago, asphyxiated, an autopsy revealed, and then dumped in an irrigation canal. She was last seen at Sacred Heart Church in McAllen, Tex., her hometown parish, where she had planned to go to confession ahead of Easter Sunday.

On Tuesday, Texas Rangers and McAllen police officers arrested the parish’s visiting priest at the time — now an octogenarian — who had been living quietly in a condominium complex here. His name is John Feit, and through the years, he has remained the sole suspect in Ms. Garza’s killing.

Mr. Feit, 83, shuffled with his walker along the linoleum floor at the Fourth Avenue Jail in Phoenix on Wednesday, anchored his stooped body behind a desk and addressed Commissioner Paula Williams of Maricopa County Superior Court, who was presiding over his initial court appearance on closed-circuit television.

“This whole thing makes no sense, because the crime in question took place in 1960,” Mr. Feit said, sounding hoarse and tired.

“There’s no statute of limitations on that sort of crime,” the commissioner replied.

Mr. Feit’s arrest in what is perhaps the most memorable cold case in recent history in Hidalgo County came about through a mix of patience, persistence and political ambition. As suspicions against Mr. Feit mounted, the Roman Catholic Church moved him to a monastery in the tiny Missouri town of Ava, and from there to a home for troubled priests in tinier Jemez Springs, N.M.…

When Ms. Garza disappeared, the police chalked it up to a case of a pretty young woman who had run off with a lover and fled the confining rules of her fervently Catholic family. Two days later, a passer-by found one of her high-heeled shoes on a road on the edge of McAllen, which sits across from Reynosa, Mexico. The next morning, someone found her purse.

By midweek, her body surfaced in the canal. Divers drained its waters, recovering a clunky slide viewer with a long black cord that the police presumed had been tied to Ms. Garza’s corpse so it would sink to the canal’s muddy bottom.

The slide viewer belonged to Mr. Feit.

Already, the young priest had admitted to hearing Ms. Garza’s confession, saying he had done so in the privacy of the rectory. And the parish’s priest, the Rev. Joseph O’Brien, told investigators that he noticed fresh scratches on Mr. Feit’s hands when they had coffee late that night….

But at Assumption Abbey in Ava, a Trappist monk named Dale Tacheny — who, as a novice master, served as coach and spiritual counselor to new arrivals — heard a different story.

In an interview, Mr. Tacheny, who is no longer a monk, recalled that the abbot had told him that Mr. Feit “had killed someone” and asked him to see if Mr. Feit “had the vocation to become a monk.” It soon became clear he did not.

“He told me he didn’t feel comfortable there — he didn’t want to spend the rest of his life in that environment,” Mr. Tacheny said.

According to Mr. Tacheny, Mr. Feit confided in him that he had killed a young woman in Texas; Mr. Tacheny never asked her name or pressed him for any details. His role, he said, was to prepare Mr. Feit for life outside the monastery, to “help him to be in control of himself.”

Mr. Feit had also spoken about hurting another woman in Hidalgo County, Mr. Tacheny recalled. Detectives had already matched his description to that given by a woman who had been attacked inside a Catholic church on the outskirts of McAllen weeks before Ms. Garza’s killing — a white man with horn-rimmed glasses just like those Mr. Feit wore. Eventually, Mr. Feit pleaded no contest to charges of aggravated assault and paid a $500 fine, but he served no jail time.…

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Filed Under: Catholic Church Tagged With: Irene Garza, John Feit, Tony Anatrella


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Comments

  1. Lee Hicks says

    Feb 12, 2016 at 12:52 pm

    This is just normal deception and corruption from the largest of apostate churches. Nothing to see here…move along….

    • Stephen says

      Feb 12, 2016 at 11:23 pm

      They hv hierarchy to control the stage of ppl n are worshiping to Lucifer as in YouTube.

    • Bonnie says

      Feb 13, 2016 at 8:36 am

      The RCC and Muslims of Islam have much in common. However, they will do a dance for a while, but eventually the RCC will get devoured.

  2. Paul says

    Feb 12, 2016 at 12:55 pm

    Thank you Robert Spencer for posting this item. Indeed, it is not off topic at all, it explains very well our immigration problems with Islam.

  3. Benedict says

    Feb 12, 2016 at 12:58 pm

    They will rot in hell. They may have a good time here. But they seem to forget that life on earth is not permanent. The life they chose is to serve. To guide man back to God.

    • Jack says

      Feb 12, 2016 at 1:22 pm

      Isn’t much of this government money (Taxpayers Money) used to fund the “Interfaith Movement” where they are lobbying for more Muslims to come to this country, they have set up shop in all states? Meantime these same people do nothing to help the poor Christians that are being slaughtered in the same countries they’re getting Muslims from, no doubt some of these people are responsible for their deaths. God warned and it seems like that warning was mainly to professing Christians or at least to those professing to be His people, “Strong Delusion” was that warning and He commanded His people not to have fellowship with Darkness, Islam is a Anti-Christ religion, many verses in their books especially the Qur’an make this very clear. verses like this one.”They put forth a most monstrous thing when they say Allah has a son” These professing Christian are certainly deluded, the Scriptures give a way God could achieve this; it was by sending a Lying Spirit in this case maybe many.

    • Christianblood says

      Feb 12, 2016 at 10:00 pm

      It would highly advisable for the Catholics to convert to the Holy Orthodox Church of the East. Catholicism is fast becoming decadent, secular and morally corrupted and it won’t be long before we have a “gay” Pope.

  4. Bill says

    Feb 12, 2016 at 12:59 pm

    $80 million? No wonder the Church has gone pro Jihad.

    • Polk1970 says

      Feb 12, 2016 at 4:01 pm

      It’s not only money.
      The Roman Catholic Academia is totally on the side unbelievebly,of the JIHADISTS.
      Roman Catholic American universities ,,Notre Dame &,De Paul(Chicago) being very glaring examples.
      The RCC univers are ities getting Islamic funding

      • Frank says

        Feb 12, 2016 at 11:23 pm

        There ARE no ‘Roman Catholic universities’ anymore … and there haven’t been any for quite a long time. (There are a _very_ few honorable exceptions to that statement.)

      • Mark Swan says

        Feb 13, 2016 at 12:43 am

        There are 197 US members of ACCU (Association of Catholic Colleges and Universities), as of 2014. They make up a significant number within the whole amount of Catholic universities and colleges in the world.

    • Tommo says

      Feb 13, 2016 at 4:36 am

      Perhaps now the church can afford to compensate the abused instead off declaring bankruptcy like several convicted dioceses did in the US.

  5. wtd says

    Feb 12, 2016 at 1:01 pm

    To their everlasting shame, this decision should prove the end of the Catholic Church, if true.

    • mortimer says

      Feb 12, 2016 at 1:29 pm

      Shame! Shame! Shame!

      Too few in the church have bothered to study the jihad doctrine, the taqiyya doctrine, the Kafir doctrine, the misogyny doctrine, the vigilantism doctrine or the apartheid doctrine of Islam…and yet, the church leaders present themselves as authorities on Islam. How can they be experts on Islam without doing any reading about Islam?

      • Pong says

        Feb 13, 2016 at 6:45 am

        Don’t try to potray them as naive or even ignorant. They are not. They know everything about islam. They are simply evil.

    • Jack says

      Feb 12, 2016 at 1:56 pm

      I doubt it especially after what has been exposed during a time now called the ‘Dark Ages” where many atrocious acts were committed against Christians that makes ISIS look like good guys, their only crime was not bowing to Papal Rome. Read Foxes Book Of The Martyrs” and Will and Ariel Durant’s “History Of The World” and even the words written by popes and cardinals over the centuries. One recent pope kissed the Qur’an and blessed it. The Scriptures warn us there is a coming False Prophet that will perform signs, miracles and wonders this man will be the right hand of the Antichrist. The One World Religion seems to be forming now and true Christians will be persecuted right here in the good ole USA, look at the view of many if not most people in America today where Patriots are considered right wing nuts, Islam is benign and Christians are the trouble makers because they wont accept Muslims, even many are saying we’re racist when Islam isn’t a race but many races. Some Christians believe it Islam only in this end times religions others believe it’s Christianity I believe it’s both Apostate Christianity and Islam that forms an alliance, no matter as long as we’re ready and are not deceived like the vast majority will be.

      • Mark Swan says

        Feb 12, 2016 at 10:50 pm

        Jack it does not sound like You will be deceived…

        The total submission that Rome requires has been expressed by many popes, but none said it more clearly than Nicholas I (858-67):

        “It is evident that the popes can neither be bound nor unbound by any earthly power, nor even by that of the apostle [Peter], if he should return upon the earth; since Constantine the Great has recognized that the pontiffs held the place of God upon earth, the divinity not being able to be judged by any living man. We are, then, infallible, and whatever may be our acts, we are not accountable for them but to ourselves. “

        Emperor Constantine The Great viewed Himself a God

        Popes…and their clergy during the times of Emperors were among the very rare few who could read and write…Roman Emperors often used them to administer…they used the emperors to gain real power and Influence…like all ordinary men they sought dominance and achieved it through feigning religion…they portend humility…they love preeminence among men…they deny the authority of God…and crave the worship of men…no man should want a title belonging only to God…and risk much to ignore a direct Order from Christ to call no man father…there is only one Holy Father…He Is God the Father…and no man.

        Emperor Constantine the Great is now just Constantine the dead and
        waiting to be resurrected some day by a Real God who would not
        recall any greatness at all in this mere flesh and blood man.

        • Pong says

          Feb 13, 2016 at 6:42 am

          Not just Constantine. That criminal psychopath is St. Constantine.

    • parousia says

      Feb 12, 2016 at 3:59 pm

      And if the Church stands still, it should prove that my Redeemer Liveth. He himself has said that the gates of hell will never prevail against his church. It may press against the church, but it will not prevail.

      Surely satan and his minions will try, but in the end they will fail. You watch it.

      Judgement must start in the house of the Living God. Because he would not be justified in judging others if he does not judge his own. Surely he knows the evil one has planted tar among his wheat. But he allows all to grow only to be separated at the great harvest.

      • Pong says

        Feb 13, 2016 at 6:50 am

        Good. And in the meantime we can continue to go to curch as good catholics. Just remember to leave our decency at home.

        • Jay Boo says

          Feb 13, 2016 at 9:10 am

          Pong
          Your straw man comment has nothing to do with what Parousia wrote.

        • Mark Swan says

          Feb 13, 2016 at 4:27 pm

          What was that

  6. Paleologos says

    Feb 12, 2016 at 1:26 pm

    As a Catholic I was so proud of Benedict XVI, whose Regensburg address called out islam for the evil that it is. …

    http://w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/speeches/2006/september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060912_university-regensburg.html …

    In the seventh conversation (διάλεξις – controversy) edited by Professor Khoury, the emperor touches on the theme of the holy war. The emperor must have known that surah 2, 256 reads: “There is no compulsion in religion”. According to some of the experts, this is probably one of the suras of the early period, when Mohammed was still powerless and under threat. But naturally the emperor also knew the instructions, developed later and recorded in the Qur’an, concerning holy war. Without descending to details, such as the difference in treatment accorded to those who have the “Book” and the “infidels”, he addresses his interlocutor with a startling brusqueness, a brusqueness that we find unacceptable, on the central question about the relationship between religion and violence in general, saying: “Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.”[3] The emperor, after having expressed himself so forcefully, goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable. Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul. “God”, he says, “is not pleased by blood – and not acting reasonably (σὺν λόγω) is contrary to God’s nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats… To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death…”.[4]

    *************************************************************************************************************

    Now we have Francis, who can’t find enough muslim butt to kiss.

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/05/13/vatican-officially-recognizes-state-palestine-in-new-treaty-abbas-to-meet-pope.html

    Wait! Pedophilia … isn’t that a muslim thing?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiNyg55pmiM

    How could things go so bad so fast?

    R/

    Paleologos

  7. celticwarriorcanada says

    Feb 12, 2016 at 2:20 pm

    To all my Christian Brothers and Sisters in the Roman Establishment : ” And I heard another voice from heaven, saying , Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins,and that ye receive not of her plagues .” ( Revelation 18:4 ) K.J.V. P.S. Have a Blessed Lenten Season : from Your Concerned Protestant Brother !

    • Dom107 says

      Feb 12, 2016 at 4:08 pm

      Why do religious people speak in 17th century English.??
      ?Now we have discredited the two biggest ones let’s get rid of all of them and start using our own brains which evolution has fortuitously bequeathed us with!!???

      • Kepha says

        Feb 12, 2016 at 6:29 pm

        Dom: My guess is that celticwarriorcanada is not only my neighbor, but a brother in Christ as well. A lot of us whose Protestant Christianity is more than a social club or what one or more parents were happen to like the Authorized Version of the Bible (King James Version).

        @celticwarrior: Have a great day, neighbor!

        • celticwarriorcanada says

          Feb 12, 2016 at 8:31 pm

          “Evolution has fortuitously bequeathed us ” Hay Dom ! The fact that you believe in an Evolutionary Cosmology is a que that YOU DON’T USE YOUR BRAIN EITHER : YOU ARE SIMPLY QUOTING A COSMOLOGICAL THEORY First proposed by the ancient Greeks, Picked up by a VICTORIAN ENGLISHMEN Named CHARLES DARWIN in the 1800s . Who also wrote in a style of English that you would OBVIOUSLY BE OFFENDED BY . And my Guess is that you never have read The JUDAEO CHRISTIAN BIBLE from COVER TO COVER .( AND IF I”M WRONG I TRULY AND SINCERELY APOLOGIZE) P.S. I also CAN READ BOTH the OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT IN The GREEK AND HEBREW TEXT !

        • Pong says

          Feb 13, 2016 at 7:16 am

          Celticwarriercanada,
          I compared English and Hebrew texts and found up to 40 mistakes in translation on every page. Those mistakes are of different importance: some are minor, but some bring almost different meaning to the text.

        • Oliver says

          Feb 13, 2016 at 2:11 pm

          Pong, It is my belief that some of the mistakes in translation are more from the change/changing of meanings over the passage of centuries , or millenniums in the case of The Torah (aka The Old Testament) from the original hebrew and Aramaic to English.

          A minor example–in OLD HEBREW- the word for PRINCE is now translated as MINISTER (of a state, not religious minister).

          I am sure the same exists for other words.

          By the way, I think about 2 years ago an 800 year old Torah was found in Bologna, Italy- and identical to one from the 21st Century; about the same time (within a few months before or after- a 2,500 year old Torah from Iraq was delivered in Israel-also identical-word for word) (in hebrew)..

      • Mark Swan says

        Feb 13, 2016 at 3:53 am

        Here You Go Dom107

        And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, unless you share in her sins, and you receive of her plagues.

        Is that better?

        You choose Evolution…Others choose Religion.

        Evolution cheats True Science…it offers something it can not deliver…my degrees are in Science.

        And if I choose God over Science it is not to discredit science…It is because…
        I have followed facts to their logical conclusion…I do not believe in God for no reason…
        God exists…A Master Scientist…among many other Powerful Attributes…
        A Well Rounded Being Beyond just science.

        Even Darwin admitted that complex organs such as the eye would be difficult to explain in terms of the gradual stepwise process outlined by his theory…But Darwin did not realize the complexity of vision’s molecular biology…which science would later discover…If we find design in the universe…we naturally expect a designer…Significantly…then…we may ask…was the universe designed for a purpose…As Patrick Glynn notes in his book, God: The Evidence: “The most basic explanation for the universe is that it seems to be a process orchestrated to achieve the end or goal of creating human beings” (Glynn, p. 32). Glynn states further: “From the scientist’s viewpoint, the fact that the universe looks as though it had a definite beginning might be upsetting enough. But what appears to drive cosmologists nearly to distraction is the anthropic principle”—that the earth and the universe were created for mankind (ibid., p. 42).

        What is the alternative…Certainly one may ignore evidence of design behind the laws that govern the universe…and behind the universe itself…But in the face of so much evidence…it takes greater “faith” to believe in a godless universe than to follow the evidence to its logical conclusion…the existence of a Creator God who set in place His laws for a purpose…Why would people exercise so much “faith” to ignore the evidence right in front of their eyes…Even some atheists and agnostics admit that by choosing to remain ignorant…they can continue living their lives without God…denying the consequences. Aldous Huxley…the famous English author…expressed this perspective well: “Most ignorance is vincible ignorance. We don’t know because we don’t want to know. It is our will that decides how and upon what subjects we shall use our intelligence. Those who detect no meaning in the world generally do so because, for one reason or another, it suits their books that the world should be meaningless” (Ends and Means, p. 312).

        What an admission…Huxley’s statement sounds very much like what the Apostle Paul wrote: “For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened” (Romans 1:20–21). You can be like these people… or You can examine the universe…creation and the purpose of human life…and you will find that design demands a designer.

        There is so much more to this than I am able to write here…I just wanted to demonstrate somehow that a Religious Human is more than Gullible…I demand proof…I feed on real…I follow the facts of science…I am thankful for God…because He reveals Himself to those that seek Him…His truth is logical.

        • Mubarak says

          Feb 13, 2016 at 6:04 am

          How does that fit with the apostels words in 1 Corinthians:
          — 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
          19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
          20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
          21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. —?

    • Tommo says

      Feb 13, 2016 at 5:11 am

      While agreeing that the Roman Church is not the one true church it claims to be, Protestantism isn’t free of child abuse scandals either.

    • Bonnie says

      Feb 13, 2016 at 9:43 am

      However, you need to understand it in full. The Great Harlot, the mother of the Harlots described in Revelation (apocalypse) chapter 17, Babylon, which pertains to the warning you quoted, is the one that invented the false trinity idol and gave birth to all the Protestant harlots. This false idol of a 3-person “god” is the truest and ugliest form of blasphemy ever created by man. Matthew 12:31 & 32.

      • Mark Swan says

        Feb 13, 2016 at 4:37 pm

        Bonnie You are indeed a Breath of Fresh Air…they don’t want to get you started Girl…
        Keep The Truth.

  8. Wellington says

    Feb 12, 2016 at 2:25 pm

    This puzzles me because I was under the impression that after this terrible scandal surfaced and played out for years that the Catholic Church developed a new policy, actually a vey strict one, whereby law enforcement authorities would be directly notified whenever possible sexual abuse by a priest came to the attention of a diocesan bishop or other Church officials. Not sure what is going on here.

    • Bonnie says

      Feb 13, 2016 at 9:53 am

      What is going on is a continuous refusal to cooperate with law enforcement until they are forced to do so, and even then, they mislead, withhold information and other forms of lack of cooperation in order to impede the process; all the while putting on a show of care and concern for the victims and justice to their parishioners and public. All one needs to do to KNOW what is still going on is to watch the DVD titled “Deliver Us From Evil” – a documentary done by a former CNN reporter about a pedophile priest named Oliver O’Grady who abused many children in several parishes as they denied the whole mess and moved him from church to church. This video will open your eyes wide.

      • Mark Swan says

        Feb 13, 2016 at 11:52 pm

        A real Life Monster…The Face Of Evil…o’Grady.

  9. Jovial Joe says

    Feb 12, 2016 at 2:29 pm

    The hiden evils that are committed behind the veil of religious garb are legion. It’s the main indictment I hold against all religions. A dog collar is not a revelatory garment, disclosing the superior moral status of its wearer, but a mask of depravity. We’re all human in the final analysis and should dispense with such virtue signaling attire.

    • Jay Boo says

      Feb 13, 2016 at 9:23 am

      As soon as vanity enters the spirit, all virtuous thoughts leave.

    • Mark Swan says

      Feb 13, 2016 at 5:18 pm

      But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. (Matthew 23:5)

      But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. (Mathew 23:11)

      And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted. (Mathew 23:12)

  10. Wellington says

    Feb 12, 2016 at 2:34 pm

    “Islam and the Catholic Church. Two of a kind.”

    Your moral equivalency thinking is showing most glaringly. It is absurd to maintain that these two religions should be placed in the same category. Catholic doctrine completely disavows sexual abuse of any kind while a green light for sex with children and sex slavery are all over the place in Islam because the Model Man did it. The Catholic Church certainly grievously erred years ago by trying to hide this scandal but it should never be overlooked that the vast majority of priests never engaged in sexual abuse and, once again, such is totally contrary to Church doctrine. Seems there is some real anti-Catholic bias on this thread, with yours being a good example.

    • Oliver says

      Feb 12, 2016 at 7:09 pm

      Wellington, I normally agree with you, but not here.

      Catholics sexually abused children NOT ONLY IN THE US, BUT IRELAND ( for decades- if not longer); the Philippines, and other countries. When Bush 1 was president, the US (via the State of Arizona) asked the Vatican to extradite a priest who abuse little children (in Arizona); the Vatican refused, saying, if was extradited, and went to prison, would probably be killed BECAUSE HE WAS A PEDOPHILE, in Arizona prisons. (I think he died shortly thereafter, anyhow).

      And reading this-that the bishops do not have to report sexual abuse of children?

      To me, seems like the 3 monkeys- even if they know it to be true.

      And, back to the scandals-how many pedophiles were transferred from place to place?

      • Angemon says

        Feb 12, 2016 at 7:15 pm

        The difference, Oliver, is that Christians who abuse children are not only going against the law but also against the tenets of their religion. They can’t point to their scriptures and justify it.

      • Mark Swan says

        Feb 13, 2016 at 12:53 am

        Mickey Oberman…they do seem to get along quite well don’t they…maybe Huge
        Saudi and Other donors do help that relationship stay smooth.

      • Tommo says

        Feb 13, 2016 at 5:03 am

        Abuse of children has also been going on in Australia in many Catholic institutions run by that most depraved organisation, the Christian Brothers. A recent Royal Commission investigation in Aus revealed the scale of their pedophilia and rampant abuse of children in their care and subsequent attempts to cover up the extent of their perversions when it was threatened to be exposed..

      • Oliver says

        Feb 14, 2016 at 2:16 pm

        Angemon, while the abuse might be against their scriptures, etc– THE PRIESTS STILL DID IT, AND THEIR SUPERIORS STILL JUST TRANSFERRED THEM AROUND.

        So, I see a similarity. Perhaps not totally equal in evilness- but reasonably close. My view.

        I went to a Catholic University (I am Jewish). The hypocrisy of MANY BUT NOT ALL of the clergy was unbelievable. (If you are not catholic, go to hell; birth control is immoral; etc.) BUT THE LEADING PIECE OF HYPOCRISY FROM A TEACHER OF ” MARRIAGE AND THE FAMILY FOR CATHOLICS” ( taught by a priest, who was supposed to be celibrate-no idea if he was or not) who spoke, fondly, of his lovely niece and handsome nephew, who were “so in love”; so his suggestion-one of them (or both) be ” fixed” (sterilized-tubes tied for her; vasectomy for him) and move to another state. His niece and nephew were siblings. Nothing about sibling incest being wrong; just that nobody should know about it. (In my 6 years in the Army Reserve- there were about a dozen or so -that I knew, who went to the same college; all knew him; all heard the same story-and in different classes, different years. Most were Catholics.

        So, the doctrines say one thing, the priests and their superiors do what the hell they want.

    • John C. Barile says

      Feb 13, 2016 at 12:28 am

      As I recall the passage, Our Lord said:

      Scandal shall come, but woe to him by whom scandal comes–better for him to have a millstone hung around his neck and to be flung into the deepest part of the sea, than to scandalize one of these, my little ones.

      I am, and remain, Catholic.

      • Mark Swan says

        Feb 13, 2016 at 1:37 am

        Mathew 18: 6

        “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

        Jesus Warns He will deal with any adult who damages children.

      • Pong says

        Feb 13, 2016 at 7:03 am

        What one has to feel when he does something shameful?
        Be proud of it !

      • Jay Boo says

        Feb 13, 2016 at 9:17 am

        “it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea.”

        I do not believe that Jesus meant that in quite the vindictive and hands-on way you suggest.

        • Bonnie says

          Feb 13, 2016 at 9:32 am

          That’s exactly how Jesus meant it. In other words something worse than death is gong to happen to those who violated and destroyed children’s faith in Jesus and in God.Matthew 18:1-6. See also Matthew 19:14, and what Jesus said at Matthew 24:48-51.There WILL be justice in the end.

      • Jay Boo says

        Feb 13, 2016 at 9:29 pm

        Note:
        My comment was meant in reference to Mark Swan’s comment

    • Tommo says

      Feb 13, 2016 at 4:44 am

      It is one thing to disavow child abuse and another to cover it up like the Catholic church has been doing. The abuse scandals uncovered worldwide within the Catholic church should demonstrate to the most devout catholic how corrupt and un-Godly the church really is..

      • Lynne says

        Feb 13, 2016 at 7:26 am

        This is the reason why I stopped going to church. Unfortunately, there is abuse everywhere but covering it up is the ultimate betrayal. A filthy priest, minister etc is more important than an innocent child. They just send him to a different church and let it happen again. In my northern Ontario city in the last thirty years both a priest and teacher were prosecuted and spent time in jail.

      • Bonnie says

        Feb 13, 2016 at 9:37 am

        Yes. If anyone wants tot know the actual extent of the abuse and cover up, the can visit the Bishop Accountability website. Warning though; it is absolutely heart breaking.

  11. Tiredofstupid says

    Feb 12, 2016 at 2:53 pm

    Time to outlaw ALL religions. Any politician or gov’t employee who gives a nickel of taxpayer money to any religion should be prosecuted and jailed. America is built on the premise of separation of church and state and taxpayer money should not be used to pander to aberrant fantasists. If you must indulge in fantasy, please do it at home. Time to end tax exemption of religious establishments also. Wake up to reality–Jesus ain’t coming to save your but from the muslims-gotta do that ourselves.

    • Wellington says

      Feb 12, 2016 at 3:00 pm

      You’re unwittingly aptly named.

      • Jay Boo says

        Feb 13, 2016 at 9:32 am

        I am tired of stupid duplicitous clowns like commenter Tiredofstupid

        This commenter seemingly begins with (ALL religions)
        But as is so typical of such commenters, reveals the true intent only in the last sentence.

        • Mark Swan says

          Feb 13, 2016 at 5:22 pm

          Me Too…I agree.

    • Champ says

      Feb 12, 2016 at 3:23 pm

      Tiredofstupid wrote:

      Jesus ain’t coming to save your but from the muslims-gotta do that ourselves.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Question: “Was Jesus a pacifist?”

      Answer: A pacifist is someone who is opposed to violence, especially war, for any purpose. A pacifist often refuses to bear arms for reasons of conscience or religious conviction.

      Jesus is the “prince of peace” (Isaiah 9:6) in that He will one day bring true and lasting peace to the earth. And His message in this world was remarkably non-violent (Matthew 5:38–44). But the Bible is clear that sometimes war is necessary (see Psalm 144:1). And, given some of the Bible’s prophecies of Jesus, it is hard to call Him a pacifist. Revelation 19:15, speaking of Jesus, declares, “Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. ‘He will rule them with an iron scepter.’ He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.” The setting up of Jesus’ millennial kingdom will necessitate violence in the form of a war waged against the forces of the Antichrist. Jesus’ robe will be “dipped in blood” (Revelation 19:13).

      In Jesus’ interaction with the Roman centurion, Jesus received the soldier’s praise, healed his servant, and commended him for his faith (Matthew 8:5–13). What Jesus did not do was tell the centurion to quit the army—for the simple reason that Jesus was not preaching pacifism. John the Baptist also encountered soldiers, and they asked him, “What should we do?” (Luke 3:14). This would have been the perfect opportunity for John to tell them to lay down their arms. But he did not. Rather, John told the soldiers, “Don’t extort money and don’t accuse people falsely—be content with your pay.”

      Jesus’ disciples owned weapons, which conflicts with the idea that Jesus was a pacifist. On the night Jesus was betrayed, He even told His followers to bring swords. They had two, which Jesus claimed was enough (Luke 22:37–39). As Jesus was being arrested, Peter drew his sword and wounded one of the men present (John 18:10). Jesus healed the man (Luke 22:51) and commanded Peter to put away his weapon (John 18:11). Of note is the fact that Jesus did not condemn Peter’s ownership of a sword, but only his particular misuse of it.

      The book of Ecclesiastes presents life’s balance of contrasting activities: “There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens: . . . a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build, . . . a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace” (Ecclesiastes 3:1, 3, and 8). These are not the words of a pacifist.

      Jesus did not sound like a pacifist when He said, “Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. ‘For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW; and A MAN’S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD’” (Matthew 10:34–36). While Jesus is not stipulating warfare, He definitely embraces the conflict that comes with the incursion of truth.

      We are never commanded to be pacifists, in the usual sense of the word. Rather, we are to hate what is evil and cling to what is good (Romans 12:9). In doing so we must take a stand against evil in this world (which requires conflict) and pursue righteousness (2 Timothy 2:22). Jesus modeled this pursuit and never shrank from conflict when it was part of the Father’s sovereign plan. Jesus spoke openly against the religious and political rulers of His time because they were not seeking the righteousness of God (Luke 13:31–32; 19:45–47).

      When it comes to defeating evil, God is not a pacifist. The Old Testament is full of examples of how God used His people in war to bring judgment upon nations whose sin had reached its full measure. A few examples are found in Genesis 15:16; Numbers 21:3; 31:1–7; 32:20–21; Deuteronomy 7:1–2; Joshua 6:20–21; 8:1–8; 10:29–32; 11:7–20. Before the battle of Jericho, Joshua was met by “the commander of the army of the Lord” (Joshua 5:14). This personage, who was most likely the pre-incarnate Christ, was distinguished by holding a “drawn sword in his hand” (verse 13). The Lord was ready to fight.

      We can be assured that it is always with justice that God judges and makes war (Revelation 19:11). “We know him who said, ‘It is mine to avenge; I will repay,’ and again, ‘The Lord will judge his people.’ It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God” (Hebrews 10:30–31). What we learn from these and other biblical passages is that we are only to participate in warfare when it is justified. The countering of aggression, injustice, or genocide would justify a war, and we believe that followers of Jesus are free to join the armed forces and participate in warfare.

      Here: http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-pacifist.html

      • Kepha says

        Feb 12, 2016 at 6:31 pm

        Champ, you write like some kind of old school Presbyterian.

        Great post.

        • Wellington says

          Feb 12, 2016 at 7:02 pm

          I would ask you, Kepha, and Champ this question: If Christianity doesn’t stand for pacifism, then how do you explain so many Christian sects arising over the centuries, examples being the Quakers, Mennonites and Amish, which preach a very thoroughgoing pacifism? I have also talked to many mainstream sect Christians (e.g., Lutherans and Methodists) who also conveyed to me unambiguously their fairly extensive pacifism.

          I do think, and I’m glad such occurs, that arguments can be made for “muscular Christians,” but I don’t think simply maintaining that Christian doctrine has nothing to do with pacifism is all that needs to be said about this matter. I mean folks like St. Augustine had to go to significant lengths to validate in their own minds the “just war” doctrine. The fact that it took such efforts, I would contend, is itself dispositive that buried in the Christian theological blueprint resides the antithesis of what Islam preaches.

        • Champ says

          Feb 12, 2016 at 7:47 pm

          LOL!! Kepha, that was written by a staff member at “Got Questions”, not me. I often refer to “Got Question” on JW; due to their succinct yet thorough answers to tough questions.

          I’m glad that you found the information great! …I think so, too 🙂

        • Champ says

          Feb 12, 2016 at 8:28 pm

          Wellington wrote:

          If Christianity doesn’t stand for pacifism, then how do you explain so many Christian sects arising over the centuries, examples being the Quakers, Mennonites and Amish, which preach a very thoroughgoing pacifism? I have also talked to many mainstream sect Christians (e.g., Lutherans and Methodists) who also conveyed to me unambiguously their fairly extensive pacifism.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Great questions, Wellington.

          Obviously, pacifism is not a view that I hold to, so perhaps someone who does have this view might offer an answer to your query, in addition to my response.

          But I did do some research to find what I think *may* be the best answer to your excellent questions, written by Matt Perman …

          And in his article Matt covers a wide range of issues–all of which are very informative and interesting–but I want to draw your attention to one issue, in particular, and that’s the issue of “turning the other cheek”.

          An issue, I think, MANY Christians, and non-Christians, too, *completely* misunderstand–which may be central to answering your questions:

          JANUARY 23, 2006
          Did Jesus teach pacifism?
          Article by Matt Perman Topic: War

          What about turning the other cheek?

          What, now, are we to make of Jesus’ radical commands in Matthew 5:39-41? “Do not resist him who is evil; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if anyone wants to sue you, and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. And whoever shall force you to go one mile, go with him two.” How does this fit with what we have seen above?

          First, we need to clarify what the problem is not. The problem is not that Jesus appears to be telling us to lie down and let evil overtake us. That is clearly not what he is saying. Instead, he is telling us what it looks like “not [to] be overcome by evil, but [to] overcome evil with good” (Romans 12:21). We have all seen the wisdom of Jesus’ words here in our everyday lives. Much of the time, the most effective way to overcome evil is by not resisting. If someone says a mean word, it is far more effective to respond with kindness than with another mean word in return. If someone tries wrongly to cut you off on the freeway, it is usually best just to let them do it. If we would learn these principles, our lives would be much more peaceful and, ironically, we would be vindicated more often.

          So the problem is not that it looks as though Jesus is telling us to let evil steam-roll over us. The problem is that it looks like Jesus is telling us that the only way we should ever seek to overcome evil is by letting it go and responding with kindness. It looks as though he leaves no place for using force in resisting evil.

          Part of the answer to this difficulty lies in understanding the hyperbolic nature of much of the Sermon on the Mount. I don’t think that Jesus is telling us never to respond to evil with force (such as in self-defense) or always to literally turn the other cheek when we are slapped any more than his command later in the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 6:6 means that we should only pray when we are completely alone or his command in 5:29 means that some should literally gouge out their eyes. Jesus himself drove the thieves away from the temple with a whip (John 2:15) and Paul at times insisted on his rights as a Roman citizen (Acts 25:11; cf. also the interesting instance of 16:35-40). Jesus is using hyperbole to illustrate what our primary disposition and attitude should be, not to say that we should literally give in to every attempt to do evil against us. That is part of the answer.

          The main part of the answer, however, lies in remembering that Jesus is speaking primarily to individuals. He is not mainly addressing governments here, but is primarily speaking at the personal level. This text, then, shows that an individual’s primary response to evil should be to “turn the other cheek,” while the other texts we have seen (e.g., Romans 13:3-4) show that government’s God-given responsibility is to punish those who commit civil crimes (murder, terrorism, acts of war, etc.). While it is sometimes appropriate even for individuals to use self-defense, it is never appropriate for individuals to seek to punish others. But it is right, however, for governments both to take measures of self-defense and to execute retribution.

          There are, in other words, various “spheres” of life. God has willed that some spheres include responsibilities that are not necessarily included in other spheres. Personally, it would be wrong for us to execute retribution on people who harm us. But passages like Romans 13:3-4 and John 18:36 show that Jesus is not denying governments the right to execute retribution on evildoers. Therefore, when a Christian is under the authority of the government and authorized to fight in a just war on the nation’s behalf, it is appropriate for him to fight. For he is not fighting as a private individual, but as a representative of the government to which God has given the power of the sword.

          In doing so, a Christian soldier should strive to love one’s opponents in war as people, remembering that he opposes them as agents of the opposing government/system, not as private individuals. When at war, we need to look at people in the opposing army/terrorist group at two levels–the private, and governmental/public. Because of the private level, the soldier should pray for and love the opposing soldiers. And because of the public level, the soldier fights against them–not as private individuals, but as public representatives of the system and evil that is being opposed. That distinction, I am sure, would be hard to maintain in battle. Neither would it remove the pain and difficulty of being involved in fighting against other human beings. But it is perhaps a faint reflection of how the personal and governmental spheres overlap and involve one another while still remaining distinct.

          Excerpt here:
          http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/did-jesus-teach-pacifism

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          I hope this helps–perhaps, in part–to answer your questions. And thank you for asking!

          Take care, my friend.

        • celticwarriorcanada says

          Feb 12, 2016 at 8:40 pm

          From where I’m sitting Champ ” Like an Old School Presbyterian ” ( Excuse The Expression ) ONE HELL OF BIG COMPLIMENT !!! At least That’s how I WOULD TAKE !!!

        • Champ says

          Feb 12, 2016 at 8:48 pm

          LOL, Celticwarriorcanada!!! 😀

        • Wellington says

          Feb 12, 2016 at 9:52 pm

          First of all, Champ, I thank you for your reply. I look forward to Kepha replying too.

          I must say that I am not convinced by the government v. individual argument proffered by Matt Perman. Yes, it could be stretched, a la Christian theology, to assert this distinction, as Perman engages in, but I would levy three objections here to this stretch of things.

          The first is that there must come a time for an individual, contra any government, to use force, even lethal force, to protect one’s family, and yet Perman asserts, WITH NO BIBLICAL BACK-UP, that it is “sometimes appropriate for even individuals to use self-defense.” He just states this, hanging this assertion out there and with no Biblical confirmation of this assertion whatsoever. Not good enough I would argue.

          Second, to maintain that Jesus was OK with governmental polities fighting back against evil but individuals, per Perman again, should “turn the other cheek,” only adds to the vagueness and confusion here. No way such an “argument” clears things up. It only adds to the problem.

          And this goes to my third objection, which not only specifically deals with matters of self-defense, but with issues in general. Here it is in a nutshell: The Jesus of the Gospels often speaks in generalities when he should have been far more specific. For example, Jesus in Mark 16:16 says those who do not believe and are not baptized are condemned? Huh? Couldn’t Jesus have been clearer here? I mean easily so. You’re talking about eternity and you state such vagaries? NOT nearly good enough.

          For instance, what about those who lived centuries before Jesus walked the earth but who led a good life with family and friends but couldn’t have believed or been baptized? Are they condemned? What about some Hindu or Buddhist or Confucianist who did live after Jesus, and was a good person, but who never, or only barely, heard of Christianity? Are they not saved? If so, why? If not, why? What about a person who seeks a philosophical, not a religious, approach to understanding the cosmos, are they condemned too? The whole “baptism and believe stuff” is way too replete with vagueness and an indefensible dictate. I would contend that if you are God on earth for a third of a century, come to redeem mankind of its sins by your supreme sacrifice, please be CLEARER about this in all regards. After all, vagueness of any kind, which has to explore the matter of did the Godhead mean this, that or the other thing and where any possible eternal life is concerned, should NOT be an option for any kind of Supreme Ruler.

          And yet in EVERY religion such vagueness reigns time and time again. The fact that so many intra-religious, yet alone inter-religious, arguments have had to expend so much time, effort and print to explain exactly what this, that or the other phrase of this, that or the other religious text REALLY, REALLY means confirms my basic objection here.

          Your turn, Champ. You too, Kepha.

        • Champ says

          Feb 12, 2016 at 11:48 pm

          Your turn, Champ

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Ok, here goes …

          I only used Matt’s article in an effort to simply answer your tough question as to why some Christians are pacifists–not to generate an onslaught of even more tough questions.

          That said, I’m *fine* with your having all of these challenging questions, but I will allow someone else the opportunity, and priviledge, to perhaps tackle them.

          As to Matt’s article–I now see how including it was a bad idea, since it wasn’t my intention to have this particular article become the target of debate. So hindsight is 20/20.

          I used the article in an attempt to merely address your question, but I should have stuck to my main point and instead given a much simplier answer–that of the “turning the other cheek” principle, that Jesus taught; and how a gross misunderstanding of this particular teaching *might* be why some Christians are pacifists.

          Take care.

  12. Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY) says

    Feb 12, 2016 at 3:18 pm

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/12/us/texas-beauty-queen-murder-irene-garza.html?_r=1
    is one of those news reports that are more interesting for
    a side-remark than for the article itself. It makes mention of
    “a home for troubled priests” located in
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jemez_Springs%2C_New_Mexico
    (which had a population of 375 in the year 2000).

    I have never before run across the phrase “a home for troubled priests”
    and never knew that such homes existed. Questions suggest themselves…
    – What troubles these priests?
    – Why do they congregate with each other? Can’t they be troubled alone?
    – What are the economics of these homes for troubled priests? Who pays for them?
    – How do the residents of homes for troubled priests spend their day?
    Playing sports? Hiking? Bicycling? Baking fruitcakes? Doing what?
    – Who is the patron saint of troubled priests? Is it
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Becket ,
    who is famous as the object of the complaint of Henry VIII,
    “Who will rid me of this troublesome priest?”

    Are there homes for troubled nuns? rabbis? imams? Lutherans?

    • ecosse1314 says

      Feb 12, 2016 at 7:09 pm

      I think you mean Henry the second.

      • Wellington says

        Feb 12, 2016 at 7:27 pm

        Exactly right.

      • Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY) says

        Feb 12, 2016 at 7:31 pm

        Yes. Thanks for the correction. Thomas Becket was killed on December 29, 1170, a few centuries before

  13. Ian H says

    Feb 12, 2016 at 3:27 pm

    As I understand it Catholics have this long standing thing about the confessional where you can confess to the priest about terrible sins – crimes even – and it will be held confidential. I have never understood how that can be legal – if you know about but don’t report a murder doesn’t that that maks you an accessory? Is this document talking about the confessional? Or is this telling priests what to do if they find out a fellow priest is buggering little boys.

    • Mark Swan says

      Feb 13, 2016 at 5:29 pm

      Complicity…aiding…abetting…all illegal acts…absolutely.

  14. sally says

    Feb 12, 2016 at 3:30 pm

    The reason so many people instinctively hate Christianity is because in all the world’s mythologies, the gospel is the only text that proclaims the innocence of the victim. Everywhere else, the world’s mythologies are elaborate, unconscious stories that hide the shameful fact of scapegoating. Pagan shamans and priests kept the mysteries hidden, they would pick a victim on purpose, expediently, not because they were bad people, but because they recognised that sacrifice of one was better than chaos in the community. At the same time, it was clearly wrong. We people love to blame because it saves us from PAIN, but it only works when we don’t know what we’re doing otherwise we feel, oh horror, shame/guilt. The whole point of Christ’s ministry was show us that it’s wrong and to deal with our problems head on. So that’s the main thing going on now with the PC culture screeching its victimhood and trying to scare the bajeesus out of everyone else. No one wants to carry his own cross. But FURTHER, the vile, revolting rot in the churches from the get-go compounds the effect of christian hating. It’s a more easily identifiable reason and so it’s used at an excuse to hate christianity (and defend islam…) In that sense, it’s really just another form of scapegoating ho-hum. The problems in the church have been with us since the start because the crusty old fathers tried to pretend the christian trinity was gay even though it’s clear as day that magdalene is the avatar for the Holy Spirit, just as Jesus embodies the Christ light. They work together and all the puritanism and continual splitting of the church under the sky won’t make that niggly little fact go away. The French Celtic church openly tried to resurrect Magdalene to her rightful place and that resulted in the witch burnings. The church in Ireland was somewhat successful in keeping the feminine alive as well until recently, but Magdalene is the rightful consort of Jesus, not his mother Mary. And no they didn’t get married and make babies, it’s the metaphysical system of healing that is described. The fact is that Ruach Elohim is the Hebrew for holy spirit and Ruach is feminine. More esoterically, the holy spirit works through the holy letter Shin, one of the three mother letters in the Hebrew alphabet. If you can’t believe the world would be so crazy as to ignore this obvious fact for 2000 years (even the Jews argue about it tho not the best rabbis), just look around you. It’s also why islam, the mirror image of christianity, means “submit”. Muslims are told to submit to the horrific sharia laws of “allah” and pray to the black rock in mecca five times a day, and forget that they ever had free will to begin with. The whole system is designed so that they can’t hear what their soul is actually telling them is right and wrong. So to submit is a distortion of the rightful surrender in the holy spirit (letting go of your shit and getting your act together) required for Christ to do his work. Lastly, my teacher says it doesn’t matter if you don’t know what he’s doing for you, he loves us that much. Or, to put it metaphysically, together, they are an electromagnetic force that work through the law of love, a law of the universe. So it works irrespective of our “beliefs” ,which is why there’s are so many fantastic muslims and atheists on the planet, for example. It would be great if fundamentalist Christians could wise up and recognise that since it ultimately speaks of the universality of their faith … Some people enjoy religion and philosophy, others have other interests and if they’re not interested in why they’re good and how they’re good, that’s okay. In the world today, we have to recognise that. To judge and think someone is not saved just because they steer clear of this stuff when it’s clear as day they’re good, honest people doing their best, is child-like. You know them because they’re good. There. Now everything makes sense.

    • Kepha says

      Feb 12, 2016 at 6:36 pm

      [Bronx Cheer]. You’ve been reading too much Dan Brown. I give the Church Fathers a lot more credit, and the Scriptures most credit of all.

      And kindly explain how the Trinity is “gay” (unless you’re old-fashioned and mean “happy”).

      I mean, if I’m good friends with another man (and neither of us wants to get in the other’s 肛门), why does it suddenly mean we’re queer? Seems to me that the pervs have done more than mess up some unfortunate young boys: they’ve messed up our language and whole sense of perception.

  15. Lynne says

    Feb 12, 2016 at 3:45 pm

    I am a Christian but I believe that Church and State should be separate. Everything out in the open for all to see. No more money for pray mats, Korans and prayer centres, Trudeau. No more endorsement of days to wear headscarves. Follow the laws of country you are in. We are all immigrants at one time or another. When our ancestors came to Canada nobody helped them. Our refugees are receiving free housing, medical care, welfare,etc while most of our citizens are paying for all that. Teach the children to work hard, reward the worthy, but there are consequences for not following the law. We are Canadians, American, British etc first. Those of the Muslim faith are always saying they are Muslims first.

  16. James Stubbs says

    Feb 12, 2016 at 4:10 pm

    How is an an address to health workers, or whoever, by some unknown cleric “The Catholic Church.”? And how is that not off-topic? This is more to do with Roberts Israeli backers being displeased with the Hierarchy’s failure to follow their lead on Islam. I happen to think Jihad Watch highlighting the bishops failure to speak out, loudly and repeatedly, on the Muslim persecution of Christians is what Robert should focus on and not try to conflate these issues. And P.S. where were the ‘Reformed’ Christians at Lepanto, Malta, or Vienna?

    • Robert Spencer says

      Feb 12, 2016 at 4:15 pm

      My Israeli backers, eh? I didn’t know lunatics of your type existed in real life.

      • Mark Swan says

        Feb 13, 2016 at 5:56 pm

        James Stubbs says

        “I happen to think Jihad Watch highlighting the bishops failure to speak out, loudly and repeatedly, on the Muslim persecution of Christians is what Robert should focus on and not try to conflate these issues”

        Were You just sitting back and waiting to pounce…Mr. Spencer does not need to explain anything to you…His work Speaks for Itself…Action Produces Results.

    • vlparker says

      Feb 12, 2016 at 6:39 pm

      Of course. It’s all the fault of the JOOOOOOOZZZ! LOL.

      • Oliver says

        Feb 13, 2016 at 2:21 pm

        I thought it was the fault of former pres. George W Bush. Seems everything else is.

    • Champ says

      Feb 13, 2016 at 3:08 am

      Never heard of “James Stubbs” before, until now. Oh and the only thing he has share is *this* nonsense?

      • Mark Swan says

        Feb 13, 2016 at 6:17 pm

        Maybe His Mother Has

  17. Champ says

    Feb 12, 2016 at 4:20 pm

    Catholic Church tells bishops they are not obliged to disclose child sex abuse UPDATE: Church denies

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I disagree. This is a serious matter with God, so they are obliged to disclose the truth before God. The Catholic Church is in great error by telling their bishops to lie.

    And lying by omission is still LYING …

    The 9th commandment states: “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.” — Exod 20: 16.

    Also, the Bible states that LIARS will *not* inheret the kingdom of God:

    “But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars–they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” — Revelation 21:8

    Notice that “all liars” are listed among murderers and the sexually immoral, etc, so lying is a very serious matter with God. These instructions to Catholic bishops is a most egregious sin. For shame.

  18. TamIAm says

    Feb 12, 2016 at 6:13 pm

    Well, Robert Spencer has shown his integrity in posting this. He is Catholic (Melkite Greek Catholic) and he is confronting abuse in his church honestly and with no apology.

    As for the Catholic church embracing Islam and ignoring the suffering of persecuted Christians, Yezidis etc.,a lot of Jewish synagogues and Protestant churches seem to be doing the same thing. I think it has to do with Western culture becoming morally bankrupt with Leftism/Marxism, politically correctness and multiculturalism/ cultural relativism. Judaism and Christianity have just become more and more secular and some synagogues and churches have decided to embrace Leftism and prioritize it above tenets of their own faith. Hopefully we will wake up and revive our culture, religions before it’s too late and we self-destruct.

    • kepha says

      Feb 12, 2016 at 6:43 pm

      Yes, I have a very great respect for Robert Spencer’s integrity, too.

      But I’ll also add that pedophilia, and all other sins there are, can be found in all communities. It’s not just a Muslim or RC thing. There was a large Evengelical Church in my area whose leadership was brought down over child abuse. There are fine, upstanding, thoroughly secularist teachers who come to grief because they can’t keep their hands and sexual organs off their charges. I’m sure you’ll find members of the Buddhist Sangha and free-floating freethinkers guilty of the same.

      • TamIAm says

        Feb 12, 2016 at 7:14 pm

        Very true. Islam is different because the texts and teachings actually sanction child rape in certain circumstances. Christianity and Judaism don’t allow for it but it happens anyway and there are cover ups with rabbis, ministers and priests.

  19. grace says

    Feb 12, 2016 at 6:22 pm

    Evil, hiding behind religion. Not exactly off topic. I believe in religious scrutiny and the right of the public to scrutinize any organization, religious or otherwise and call it to account. Western democracies have good laws that have served us well for decades and we don’t want people of any religion using their teachings as a cloak for vice and evil. Of course islam is the more obvious threat to many of us, but the hidden, insidous threats need exposing too.
    The fact that there are some so called Christians not seeing any difference between their faith andcislam, indicates what little they know about the Bible or the koran.

  20. Kepha says

    Feb 12, 2016 at 7:10 pm

    While we’re at it, here’s an article describing a conference in Cambridge, UK that argues that pedophilia is normal in human males:

    http://dailyheadlines.net/2015/11/look-who-is-saying-that-pedophilia-is-natural-normal-for-males/

    I would venture to say that every sin in the book is normal for most people–but that doesn’t mean we should indulge it.

    • Francis Merde says

      Feb 13, 2016 at 12:22 pm

      This is the danger of moral relativism. It always ends with having no standards whatsoever. Once you normalize something like sodomy for instance, then why not polygamy? Why not incest? Why not pedophilia? Why not bestiality? Why not necrophilia? There’s a reason prescriptions like those in Chapter 20 of Leviticus exist (though the example of Jesus in the New Testament thankfully, abrogates the whole death penalty aspect of it vis-a-vis the parable about him sparing an adulteress from a death by stoning.)

      I can almost guarantee that out-and-proud pedos will be the next terrible thing that is spawned from the dregs of what was perhaps once a legitimate civil rights movement. Don’t forget that GLAD and NAMBLA were pretty cozy back in the 1970s after all.

      • Bonnie says

        Feb 13, 2016 at 12:45 pm

        Frances, I find your comment to be quite truthful. We are now witnessing the implosion and complete collapse of civilization. As the word of God points out in Prophecy, the number of the evil people will be as the sand of the sea. Revelation 20:8&9 and Ezekiel 38:14-16. Also, In Romans 1:18-32, the full description of what you just said is given.

  21. worldcitizen1919 says

    Feb 12, 2016 at 7:46 pm

    Priesthood for all religions should be abolished. At one time it may have been beneficial but now everyone can read and write and investigate truth for themselves and don’t need clergy to guide them anymore and there is no Holy Book which legitimises clergy or priesthood. It was a man made invention that really went too far giving an almost godly aura about fallible, sinful individuals as we see they are today.

    • Pong says

      Feb 13, 2016 at 4:02 pm

      In judaism it was abolished long time ago.

  22. Tom says

    Feb 12, 2016 at 7:55 pm

    This week, a Cook County judge said that a Chicago “child molester” priest’s victim could take to trial the issue of punitive damages. The victim will have to know the Church was aware the priest was a molester.

    There should be many bishops in prison for their failure to drop a dime.

    It is outrageous that some perverts where transferred from one parish to another and another etc.!

  23. CogitoErgoSum says

    Feb 13, 2016 at 3:03 am

    Murder is a felony and so is child abuse in its most serious form …at least in the United States. In my mind the commission of a felony also constitutes the commission of a mortal sin. If someone comes to a priest asking for forgiveness of a sin which could also be a felony, the priest still must remain bound by a seal of confidentiality and should not reveal to anyone what is told to him in the privacy of the confessional. HOWEVER, Jesus said this to his Apostles,:

    “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” (John 20:23)

    I read this to mean that not every sin HAS to be forgiven …. at least not upon this Earth by a person acting under the authority of Jesus. A priest may use his own discretion (per Jesus) as whether or not to grant absolution for a sin and in some cases a priest actually SHOULD NOT grant absolution until the proper penance has been performed by the sinner. In the case of a person who has committed a serious crime such as murder or child molestation the priest should tell the person confessing to the crime to turn himself in to the proper legal authorities. If the one who confessed does not perform the required penance his sin is not forgiven and the priest should do all he can without breaking the seal of the confessional to see that justice is handed down for the sake of the victims of the sin.

    Jesus is about mercy ….. but He is about justice also.

  24. ALEXANDER BACKMAN says

    Feb 13, 2016 at 4:25 am

    It is in their own effing law! It is called Crimen Solicitanis, they protect and cover for their evil cohorts, and they even get promoted for doing so, as well as the pedopriests, they too, get promoted within the demonic hierarchy.

  25. boakai ngombu says

    Feb 13, 2016 at 7:15 am

    i’m out in the bush, thanks to fine comments above, and probably off the main road … 80 million … corruption of Bishops and priests and others … is this a payment for developing the liturgy of silence regarding atrocities and crimes ongoing perpetrated by brothers of the mosque? … just a reflection upon the evils in high places…

  26. Pong says

    Feb 13, 2016 at 9:09 am

    Wellington!
    “For instance, what about those who lived centuries before Jesus walked the earth but who led a good life with family and friends but couldn’t have believed or been baptized? Are they condemned? What about some Hindu or Buddhist or Confucianist who did live after Jesus, and was a good person, but who never, or only barely, heard of Christianity? Are they not saved?”
    I think Christianity is unambiguously states that they are not. Partially because of that I, being an atheist, put Judaism above christianity on the moral scale.

    • Bonnie says

      Feb 13, 2016 at 9:22 am

      Wellingotn, regarding Judaism, Almighty God selected the Hebrews (Jews) our of all the other peoples of the world to be His special treasure and property. Deuteronomy 7:6. They were not to marry other people. True Christians are those who had this same opportunity, to be treasured by God, when the Jews rejected Jesus.Romans chapter 11, special attention to verses 29-32. However, the true Christian rejects the false trinity idol, just as the Jews do.

      • Carolyne says

        Feb 13, 2016 at 11:27 am

        Bonnie —–Do you really believe that a “God” chose a particular group of people to favor over al other groups? Sort of like Allah favors Islam? Why would he/she do that?

        This is the 21st century.

        • Bonnie says

          Feb 13, 2016 at 11:54 am

          Carolyne, Almighty God, the Creator and the ONLY true and LIVING God explains at Deuteronomy 7:6-11- in the Torah, and in Genesis 6:5& 6 in the word of God as written by Moses.(also found in the Christian Bible). Man became so wicked-minded and violent that God felt regret that He had made man. However, there was one man, Noah, who was righteous in God’s eyes and he and his family were chosen by God. Noah’s descendants continued on to Abraham who had a special relationship with God, and God promised him that he and all future generations would be blessed by Him if they remained faithful. Genesis chapter 17.

        • Pong says

          Feb 13, 2016 at 4:30 pm

          Anti-semite for centuries accused the jews of feeling superior to other people. Yes, according to the bible, god did chose jews among the nations. Your own anti-semitism goes as far as to reject it.
          The jews were chosen not to be superior to other people, but to serve god. As a result, they were given more responsibilities. For a jew to be righteous and have a place in the world to come, he must obey 613 commandments, as a non-jew only 7. To me it doesn’t sound as to be chosen for privileges. There are none, but plenty of responsibilities.
          To compare with islam is realy to go beyond been ignorant. It is disgusting. Anti-semitism has already driven Europe to collaps. And not because of some devine intervention, but because it has been influencing policies towards islam and Israel. Everything I ever read, pushing anti-semitic ideas(your post including), is on a borderline of mental retardation.

    • Oliver says

      Feb 13, 2016 at 2:29 pm

      Pong, you are correct.’

      In Judaism, ALL GOOD PEOPLE get a share of Life after (earthly) death. ( “The World To Come”, heaven, other names).

      And to the best of my knowledge, no other major religion says this.

  27. Richard P, Sweden says

    Feb 13, 2016 at 9:56 am

    Aisha 6.and already married to the Prophet. Fatima daughter of the Prophet married to Ali 4th caliph – shia, cousin of the Prophet.
    The prophet had some 11 wives.
    A little history:
    1st caliph Abu Bekr (Bakr) dies 634 while committing Djihad attack to capture Syria and Palestine.
    2nd caliph Omar captures Palestine 634, Damascus falls 635, Jerusalem capitulated 637 or 638. Palestine and Syria lost for ever 634-638.
    Omar is murdered 644 by a persian christian slave.
    3rd caliph Othmanr. Of a business aristocratic family in Mecca. Islam expansion goes on to Persia, Egypt, India, Northern Africa, Spain, Baltic, Turkey and so on.
    Othman was murdered 656 in Medina.
    4th caliph Ali. Married to Fatima the daughter of his cousin the prophet Muhammed.
    Ali was murdered 661 by a kharidji, a resistance group.
    Sons Husein and Hassan. Father of shia (the party) muslims. Husain was beheaded while trying to recapture his father´s military base Kufa.
    Any mistakes regarding historic dates here stated are fully up to me. Apologizing for limited knowledge of the engllish language.
    Thanks for possibility to express my opinions and for an excellent site. Let us fight together for a better world. Be careful out there. Have a good time.

    • Carolyne says

      Feb 13, 2016 at 11:30 am

      Judging from your post, being Caliph was a short-lived position. I imagine that the rewards were great–in terms of slaves and booty, but definitely not an honor considering the on-the-job hazards.

      • Richard P, Sweden says

        Feb 13, 2016 at 11:36 am

        Seems so.

  28. Carolyne says

    Feb 13, 2016 at 11:35 am

    I doubt that the Roman Catholic clergy has any more child molesters than the general population. I just think that somehow it is worse when their superiors who claim to be some kind of God’s representatives, cover it up.

    I haven’t noticed any particular feminism among clergy in general and I don’t judge a man by his ruggedness, but by his intellect and actions. The kind of clergy you describe and seem to think preferable probably are misogynists too.

  29. Barbc says

    Feb 13, 2016 at 4:34 pm

    Skip going to the prelates. Go straight to the police. I am Catholic and the way the people are treated is no different than the DC politicians cover for each other. One is secular and the other is religious. Same difference.
    Remember Teddy Kennedy’s nephew who raped the woman in Florida. It is all in who you know.
    Wrong is wrong no matter who is doing it. If the organization will not properly police it self than the people must go where justice is obtained.

    • Oliver says

      Feb 14, 2016 at 2:32 pm

      I am no fan of the Kennedy’s- but Smith ( the nephew who was accused of the rape)- was probably innocent. (I lived in southeast FL at the time- and followed the trial). Amongst other inconsistencies- the supposed victim waited for (I believe it was 2 hours-something like that) before leaving the Kennedy compound ( where the rape supposedly) (or should I say supposed rape) took place.

      As I recall, she went back there a day or two later.

      And did not seek medical attention or report it promptly. (That’s how i recall it, form 20+ years ago); and it was a “pick up bar” where they met. And, if my memory serves me, she was a regular there. ) I beleive the claim was consensual sex.

      But, i agree with your premise-one law for the masses, other for the elite

  30. eib says

    Feb 13, 2016 at 5:47 pm

    I would admonish the church not to defy secular law.

  31. UNCLE VLADDI says

    Feb 13, 2016 at 6:59 pm

    This is no surprise. Christianity has been an insane criminal fraud from the beginning.

    Overall, religion is, at BEST, only a feeble rationalizing attempt to explain fear, pain, and hope.

    But we don’t feel these because a distant ancestor offended some “god.”

    We feel them because they reflect the three states of matter and time.

    Religion is BACKWARDS, and here’s both how and why:

    Fear does not cause pain and damage – damage causes pain and then the fear of it.

    Similarly, hope does not cause healing and health – healing causes health and then the remembered hope for more of it.

    “Faith!” is false, and prayer is useless – you can’t change the Perfect mind of an omnipotent God who has predetermined every thing from the Beginning, just by begging him or saying the right magic words!

    DAMAGE IS NOT HEALED BY HOPE!

    Non-Christian people (Jews and pagans) and animals’ bodies heal just as well and quickly as Christian’s do.

    All Jesus said was “You have to have faith in me.” “You have to have faith in me.” “Do you have faith in me?” “You have to have faith in me.” “Oops! You didn’t have faith in me, so things went wrong for you.” “You have to have faith in me.” “Do you have faith in me?” etc etc etc

    Then he died and said “Forgive them Father for they know not what they do!”

    And what ever happened to:

    “”Man, if thou knowest what thou doest, though art blessed; but, if thou knowest not, then thou art cursed and a transgressor of the law.””(?!)

    But I think a REAL god could have explained that which it was they did not know they did, so they wouldn’t have done it! LOL!

    😉

    Popes and priests generally aren’t religious people, they’re only “religions” salesmen, and that usually always only means: “Have Faith, for Hope IS a plan!” (“and Please Give Generously – AGAIN!”)

    Islam sells the opposite: Hope is no plan at all, so always Submit to the fear of Pain!
    Neither is any good for humanity, but the first creed is less evil than the latter one.

    However, Christianity is NOT much better than islam, in that it too is extortion, in that it forces people to commit public fraud in proclaiming a false “BELIEF!” in something they know isn’t true because they have absolutely no evidence for it: That there is a god, and that it is “good,” by tormenting them with the threat of eternal hell-fire – by which threat alone is proof that it ISN’T “good!”

    • Pong says

      Feb 13, 2016 at 9:43 pm

      Uncle Vladdi, you are not going to be popular. If you noticed almost half of the space is occupide by NT quatations, which are hardly have anything to do with the topic of discussion.
      Religions have 2 main aspects: 1. Nature of god and 2.knowledge of god. To discuss nature of god is a total waste of time. That’s when faith comes in and leaves no room for anything else.
      Knowledge of god comes from the religious books and here we have a bit of room to maneuver.
      I don’t believe in a single word of scriptures not because I don’t believe in god, or they describe something, which is more of a fairy tale. I don’t believe, because they describe things, which could’ve happened. Examples: WATER INTO VINE – unlikely, but probably not impossible. PHARISEE HAVING DINARIUM IN HIS POCKET – absolutely impossible.
      I disagree with you about christianity and islam. Islam is much worse. Plus, christianity is less and less relevant to our lives, as islam more and more.
      “prayer is useless…” well, not exactly. Medical studies, conducted on 2 groups, showed that patients in prayr group were actually doing worse.

      • UNCLE VLADDI says

        Feb 14, 2016 at 4:30 am

        Heh! I’m not into winning any popularity contests – the Truth is always seen as hate speech by idolaters. Negligent criminals sure hate it when someone breaks their idols.

        And: LOL on that last sentence! But the water into wine bit? Maybe Jesus came back from India with the knowledge of how to make dehydrated grape juice concentrate – you know, THE VERY FIRST HISTORICAL EXAMPLE OF A CHARLATAN TRICKING PEOPLE INTO
        “DRINKING THE KOOL-AID!”

        😉

    • Champ says

      Feb 13, 2016 at 10:30 pm

      Ok, thank you for sharing. But can you prove that God does *not* exist?

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Question: “Does God exist? Is there evidence for the existence of God?”

      Answer: The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved. The Bible says that we must accept by faith the fact that God exists: “And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him” (Hebrews 11:6). If God so desired, He could simply appear and prove to the whole world that He exists. But if He did that, there would be no need for faith. “Then Jesus told him, ‘Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed’” (John 20:29).

      That does not mean, however, that there is no evidence of God’s existence. The Bible states, “The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world” (Psalm 19:1-4). Looking at the stars, understanding the vastness of the universe, observing the wonders of nature, seeing the beauty of a sunset—all of these things point to a Creator God. If these were not enough, there is also evidence of God in our own hearts. Ecclesiastes 3:11 tells us, “…He has also set eternity in the hearts of men.” Deep within us is the recognition that there is something beyond this life and someone beyond this world. We can deny this knowledge intellectually, but God’s presence in us and all around us is still obvious. Despite this, the Bible warns that some will still deny God’s existence: “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God’” (Psalm 14:1). Since the vast majority of people throughout history, in all cultures, in all civilizations, and on all continents believe in the existence of some kind of God, there must be something (or someone) causing this belief.

      In addition to the biblical arguments for God’s existence, there are logical arguments. First, there is the ontological argument. The most popular form of the ontological argument uses the concept of God to prove God’s existence. It begins with the definition of God as “a being than which no greater can be conceived.” It is then argued that to exist is greater than to not exist, and therefore the greatest conceivable being must exist. If God did not exist, then God would not be the greatest conceivable being, and that would contradict the very definition of God.

      A second argument is the teleological argument. The teleological argument states that since the universe displays such an amazing design, there must have been a divine Designer. For example, if the Earth were significantly closer or farther away from the sun, it would not be capable of supporting much of the life it currently does. If the elements in our atmosphere were even a few percentage points different, nearly every living thing on earth would die. The odds of a single protein molecule forming by chance is 1 in 10243 (that is a 1 followed by 243 zeros). A single cell is comprised of millions of protein molecules.

      A third logical argument for God’s existence is called the cosmological argument. Every effect must have a cause. This universe and everything in it is an effect. There must be something that caused everything to come into existence. Ultimately, there must be something “un-caused” in order to cause everything else to come into existence. That “un-caused” cause is God.

      A fourth argument is known as the moral argument. Every culture throughout history has had some form of law. Everyone has a sense of right and wrong. Murder, lying, stealing, and immorality are almost universally rejected. Where did this sense of right and wrong come from if not from a holy God?

      Despite all of this, the Bible tells us that people will reject the clear and undeniable knowledge of God and believe a lie instead. Romans 1:25 declares, “They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.” The Bible also proclaims that people are without excuse for not believing in God: “For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—His eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse” (Romans 1:20).

      People claim to reject God’s existence because it is “not scientific” or “because there is no proof.” The true reason is that once they admit that there is a God, they also must realize that they are responsible to God and in need of forgiveness from Him (Romans 3:23, 6:23). If God exists, then we are accountable to Him for our actions. If God does not exist, then we can do whatever we want without having to worry about God judging us. That is why many of those who deny the existence of God cling strongly to the theory of naturalistic evolution—it gives them an alternative to believing in a Creator God. God exists and ultimately everyone knows that He exists. The very fact that some attempt so aggressively to disprove His existence is in fact an argument for His existence.

      How do we know God exists? As Christians, we know God exists because we speak to Him every day. We do not audibly hear Him speaking to us, but we sense His presence, we feel His leading, we know His love, we desire His grace. Things have occurred in our lives that have no possible explanation other than God. God has so miraculously saved us and changed our lives that we cannot help but acknowledge and praise His existence. None of these arguments can persuade anyone who refuses to acknowledge what is already obvious. In the end, God’s existence must be accepted by faith (Hebrews 11:6). Faith in God is not a blind leap into the dark; it is safe step into a well-lit room where the vast majority of people are already standing.

      Here: http://www.gotquestions.org/Does-God-exist.html

      https://youtu.be/ukOTW-pxuL0

  32. Oliver says

    Feb 14, 2016 at 2:43 pm

    Some years ago, a friend who is an atheist told me this. In The Netherlands, in the 17th century (I think it was) there was a Jewish philosopher who was an atheist.

    He then wrote a brilliant thesis why there is No G-d.

    However, he still went to synagogue; still obeyed the Commandments as best as he could; still studied Torah; still tried to do good deeds, etc.

    A friend, also an atheist, asked him why. His response–my thesis cannot be proven or disproven.

    If I am right-so, there is no G-d–who have I hurt? I might have given comfort to someone in their time of bereavement or sorrow; done good deeds; studied Torah; done good deeds. I have hurt nobody, and perhaps helped someone.

    Now, if I am wring, and there is a G-d, i can say, “yes, I did not beleive in you, but I was still a good person; a moral person; and did my best as a human being, to help people.

    (words approximate translation, as told to me by my friend).

    The existence of a Superior being cannot be proven ro disproven.

  33. Lyndon Weggery says

    Feb 15, 2016 at 3:32 pm

    Have these guys not seen th 2015 Film “Spotlight” yet?

  34. Mark Swan says

    Feb 15, 2016 at 11:32 pm

    Proof 1: Creation Demands a Creator. The Hubble telescope continues to reveal previously unknown galaxies. Our awesome universe simply astounds us. Under the night sky, King David of ancient Israel asked God: “When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, the moon and the stars, which You have ordained, what is man that You are mindful of him, and the son of man that You visit him?”(Psalm 8:3–4). David called the universe the work of God’s fingers. He knew that God created the universe. Did the universe have a beginning? What do scientists say? Famous astrophysicist Stephen Hawking, in a lecture titled “The Beginning of Time,” stated the view of most astronomers today: “The universe has not existed forever. Rather, the universe, and time itself, had a beginning in the Big Bang, about 15 billion years ago.” As Dr. Jeffrey Fall wrote: “Science now confirms that there has been no past eternity of matter!… Amazingly, science is finally catching up in understanding with the Bible concerning the origin of the universe” Science agrees with the Bible that the universe has not always existed. But how, then, did the universe arise? Did it come from nothing? If so, how? Can science give us an answer? Sir John Maddox, author of What Remains To Be Discovered, wrote a Time magazine article titled “A Theory of Everything.” He observed: “Only 70 years ago, the universe was found to be expanding, but now there is a model of how it began: the Big Bang. At the beginning, it is said, there was literally nothing (‘the void,’ Genesis), not even space. Then there came into being a tiny speck of superheated space that contained enough energy to create all the stars and galaxies that fill the sky—with enough left over to drive the expansion of the universe ever since” (March 29, 1999, p. 206). Maddox continues, “There are also serious philosophical problems created by the Big Bang, which can be described but not explained. Worse, nobody has been able to reconcile quantum physics with the other great triumph of 20th century physics: Einstein’s theory of gravitation. Until that is done, the true nature of our universe will remain beyond our ken” Maddox’s candor is admirable. He recognizes that scientific truth is valuable, but limited. Science can describe the “how” of nature to a certain extent. But it cannot answer the deeper philosophical questions, such as “why the universe?” and “what is the purpose of human beings?” The Bible does answer those questions. Science can demonstrate that the universe began, but by itself it cannot reveal what—or Who—caused that beginning. Here, the Bible agrees with science, but adds a vital dimension to our understanding of the created universe: “By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible” (Hebrews 11:3).

    Proof 2: Life Demands a Life-Giver. Scientists have tried in vain to create life from non-life, or even from “soups” of laboratory chemicals. They have utterly failed! The law of biogenesis states that life can only come from life. Astrophysicist Hugh Ross comments on these failed attempts: “Even under highly favorable conditions of a laboratory, these soups have failed to produce anything remotely resembling life. One problem is that they produce only a random distribution of left- and right-handed pre-biotic molecules…Life chemistry demands that all the molecules be either right- or left-handed. With all our learning and technology we cannot even come close to bringing life together in the lab” (The Creator and the Cosmos, Ross, 1993, p. 148). Even though science has never—not even once—created life from non-life, some scientists are so determined to reject the idea of a Creator God that they put aside their own scientific objectivity and stake their belief on what science has shown to be impossible. The scientific method requires observation, experimentation and human reasoning. No physical experiment can “prove” God in a scientific sense. Science can only produce experimental results that are either consistent or inconsistent with the hypothesis of a Creator God. Yet what happens when scientists encounter facts that are consistent with a Creator? Many will dogmatically declare that there cannot be a God, ironically making a “religion” out of their unscientific atheism! Notice this quote by Nobel Prize-winning scientist George Wald: “The reasonable view was to believe in spontaneous generation; the only alternative, to believe in a single, primary act of supernatural creation. There is no third position. One has only to contemplate the magnitude of this task to concede that the spontaneous generation of a living organism is impossible. Yet here we are as a result, I believe, of spontaneous generation” (“The Origin of Life,” Scientific American, August 1954, p. 46). Amazing! A Nobel Prize-winning scientist calls it “impossible” yet believes it to be true! We must not be deceived by scientific theorizing that has no basis in reality. Wald’s phrase “spontaneous generation” may sound impressive, but however erudite such a phrase may sound, it is not scientific truth, and does not agree with true science and the real world! As true science recognizes, life can only come from life. The Bible explains that life originally came from the Life-Giver: “And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being” (Genesis 2:7).” God gave physical life to human beings and many other life forms. God is also the giver of spiritual life.

    Proof 3: Laws Demand a Lawgiver. Science has discovered that our physical universe appeared from nothing. But how did this happen? Science cannot explain the origin of the universe, but there must be an answer. Contrary to what some believe, the Bible’s simple answer is consistent with true science: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” (Genesis 1:1). Notice that the Bible does not tell us when this original creation occurred, only that there was a beginning of time, and a beginning of the universe. Science and the Bible agree that the universe began, and that it immediately operated according to predictable natural laws. When the universe came into existence, all the laws of physics and chemistry were intact; they did not “evolve.” Patrick Glynn, in his book God: The Evidence, writes that everything had to be “‘just right’ from the very start—everything from the values of fundamental forces like electromagnetism and gravity, to the relative masses of the various subatomic particles, to things like the number of neutrino types at time 1 second, which the universe has to ‘know’ already at 10-43 second. The slightest tinkering with a single one of scores of basic values and relationships in nature would have resulted in a universe very different from the one we inhabit—say, one with no stars like our sun, or no stars, period. Far from being accidental, life appeared to be the goal toward which the entire universe from the very first moment of its existence had been orchestrated, fine-tuned” (pp. 7–8). Science has found no reason for the many laws of physics and chemistry, and for the many precise values and relationships, to have come into existence exactly as they are. From a mathematical point of view, the odds against our universe having just the right laws to sustain life are astronomical. Remember, these laws were in existence at the first moment of creation. Scientists recognize that they had to be. As Hawking acknowledged in The Nature of Space and Time: “The only way to have scientific theory is if the laws of physics hold everywhere, including at the beginning of the universe” (p. 40). Is it reasonable, then, to assume that these laws came about from nothing—from random chance? Absolutely not! The existence of such marvelous and predictable laws in nature points to a master intelligence and Lawgiver. Add to that evidence the existence of unseen spiritual laws, and you double the evidence of a great Lawgiver. What is the origin of these natural laws that permeate our universe? As your Bible reveals: “There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy” (James 4:12). Yes, the Creator God is the Lawgiver, both of natural law and spiritual law. “The Lord is our Lawgiver” (Isaiah 33:22). Have some scientists recognized the significant evidence of intelligence behind the natural laws of our universe? Yes! Albert Einstein, the great physicist and Nobel Prize winner, saw awesome intelligence revealed in the existence of natural law. He wrote that the scientist’s “religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection” (Einstein: A Centenary Volume, ed. A. P. French, Harvard University Press, 1979, p. 305). Einstein was amazed at the intelligence he saw in natural law. He called human intelligence, compared to that superior intelligence revealed in natural law, “an utterly insignificant reflection.” That far superior intelligence behind the laws of the universe is the God who created the universe—the great Lawgiver!

    Proof 4: Design Demands a Designer. Not only do we find predictable physical laws throughout the universe, we find tremendous evidence of intelligent design. The human body, for example, shows insurmountable evidence of design. Consider the human eye. What is the alternative? Certainly one may ignore evidence of design behind the laws that govern the universe, and behind the universe itself. But in the face of so much evidence, it takes greater “faith” to believe in a godless universe than to follow the evidence to its logical conclusion: the existence of a Creator God who set in place His laws for a purpose. Why would people exercise so much “faith” to ignore the evidence right in front of their eyes? Even some atheists and agnostics admit that by choosing to remain ignorant, they can continue living their lives without God, denying the consequences. Aldous Huxley, the famous English author, expressed this perspective well: “Most ignorance is vincible ignorance. We don’t know because we don’t want to know. It is our will that decides how and upon what subjects we shall use our intelligence. Those who detect no meaning in the world generally do so because, for one reason or another, it suits their books that the world should be meaningless” (Ends and Means, p. 312). What an admission! Huxley’s statement sounds very much like what the Apostle Paul wrote: “For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened” (Romans 1:20–21). Do not be like these foolish people! Examine the universe, creation and the purpose of human life, and you will find that design demands a designer!

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