The Russians have often accused the Obama Administration of just pretending to go after the Islamic State by mounting a few airstrikes just for show. And here we are.
“Russia hit 1,888 targets in Syria in a week; US count? Just 16,” by Matthew Schofield, McClatchy, February 12, 2016:
BERLIN — In the seven days before the announcement early Friday that a cease-fire might go into effect in Syria in another week, Russian forces hit more than 100 times as many targets within the embattled nation as a military coalition that includes the United States.
Exactly how the cease-fire proposed at an international conference in Munich would work is still being decided. The agreement announced by Russian and U.S. officials said “a nationwide cessation of hostilities … should apply to any party currently engaged in military or paramilitary hostilities” except the Islamic State, al-Qaida’s Syrian affiliate — Jabhat al Nusra — “or other groups designated as terrorist organizations by the United Nations Security Council.”
Since Russia considers any organization attacking the government of Syrian President Bashar Assad a terrorist group, the question arises of just how its efforts might change.
And those efforts are substantial, as a weekly report by the Russian Ministry of Defense makes clear. In a report posted Thursday on its website, the ministry noted that its jets flew 510 combat sorties and hit 1,888 “terrorist objects” in Syria. The previous week’s report claimed 464 sorties that hit a total of 1,354 “terrorist objects.”
Daily reports from the U.S. military for the same period indicate a much lower level of activity: 16 targets struck in Syria. The reports also said those forces hit 91 targets in Iraq.
The reports suggest Russia has been far more aggressive than the United States has leading up to the cease-fire proposal.
The most recent Russian report, for instance, notes, “During air duty mission, Su-25 attack aircraft detected three hardware columns transporting militants, armament and munitions along the highway al Qaryatayn-Homs. The strike resulted in elimination of nine heavy trucks with munitions and more than 40 militants.”
A Feb. 9 report from U.S. Central Command gave that day’s actions this way: “Near Kobani, one strike struck an ISIL tactical unit. Near Manbij, one strike struck an ISIL tactical unit. Near Mar’a, one strike struck an ISIL tactical unit and destroyed an ISIL fighting position.”…

Linde Barrera says
I love President Putin and his Russian troops doing damage to ISIS. They are a blessing from God, going after these evil demons. My jury is still out as to the decision to support Assad.
Christianblood says
Linde Barrera:
You are right Linda. Anyone with the slightest common sense will love President Putin and the Russian troops only those whose judgments are clouded by Russophobic American/Western Anti Russian propaganda will hate Russia and their great leader, the honorable Master Politician, President Putin!
As for President Assad, please Watch as nearly half a million Syrian Christians celebrate this past Christmas in the streets of Damascus under the protection of the president Assad and his heroic Syrian Army. Imagine what would happen to these Christians Linda, if the American-backed barbaric islamic jihadists succeeded toppling president Assad’s government as America and their Saudi-Qatar-Turkey-ISIS allies were expecting. President Assad is far more reasonable that the barbaric jihadist allies that America and the West are backing. Please Watch the video on the link below::
https://www.rt.com/news/327064-christmas-celebrate-syria-damascus/
MKG says
Interesting comments Christianblood, very thought provoking. I didn’t watch the video but the story was good.
I do believe we in the west need to get some of our priorities sorted out. We are tired of all the political crap. The way the 2016 election is going is indicative of that. We will have to wait and see.
Keep sharp Christianblood or should I call you Justin?
Ex-muslim says
Christianblood posted:
“…Imagine what would happen to these Christians Linda, if the American-backed barbaric islamic jihadists succeeded toppling president Assad’s government as America and their Saudi-Qatar-Turkey-ISIS allies were expecting…”
C.B. you are right. Jihadist-backing Nato leaders are detached from reality they keep repeating the same ‘regime change’ strategy that has destroyed Iraq, Libya, Ukraine, Yemen and now Syria. I think, Russia will not allow them to topple President Assad of Syria this time.
Western Canadian says
It is quite possible to prefer Putins actions against islamic ‘fighters’, than obamas cowardice or outright support of them, without ‘loving’ him, or not having reservations about him.
Angemon says
Christianblood posted:
“only those whose judgments are clouded by Russophobic American/Western Anti Russian propaganda will hate Russia and their great leader, the honorable Master Politician, President Putin!”
You mean, like the Russians in Russia suffering an economic crisis and impotent against rampant corruption and organized crime? Or the tens of thousand of Russian girls ending up in the sex traffic world, many of them in muslim countries?
Do you care about the Christians dying in Ukraine, Christianblood?
Avenger says
Angemon- No question that the Russians are having economic hardships, with EU and US sanctions, combined that with falling oil prices, any targeted nations economy would falter. It’s nice to see our former allies Israel and Egypt doing much more trade and political dialogue with Russia.
With concerns to the Ukraine and Crimea, they belong too Russia not NATO. Ever since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the US and NATO have shoving military installations into all the former Soviet satellite nations, hoping to surround and destroy the recuperating Russia. Isn’t it fair to give back Hawaii to its people if Russia has to do the same with the Ukraine? BTW if it wasn’t for Russia destroying the Tartars the Ukraine would be just another fetid backwater Muslim rat hole.
Don’t throw stones in a glass house either when accusing Russia of corruption. We have politicians in both parties taking millions from Saudi and Qatary governments, why else would we be supporting ISIS in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Nigeria, Somalia and Turkey. Some of our best “All American” politicians are lining their pockets with this money- the Clintons, the entire Bush clan, B Dole, Grover Norquist and most probably John McCain and Lindsey Graham. The Republican Superpacs all have Saudi donations.
We also have Mafia in most major US cities and soon the Mexican drug cartels will be firmly anchored in many of the South West States.
Russian women being used as sex slaves? Wasn’t a child prostitution sex ring busted during the Super Bowl in San Francisco? Many young girls and boys were saved from rape.
It’s Catholic separatist factions fighting Orthodox Christians in the Ukraine. There would have been peace in that nation but again the US and NATO dumped money and weapons into west Ukraine hoping to make it a NATO member in the backyard of Russia.
Many more Christians are being murdered daily by the US funded Free Syrian Army than are dying in the Ukraine. Don’t you care about those Christians, Angemon?
Angemon says
Avenger posted:
“Angemon- No question that the Russians are having economic hardships, with EU and US sanctions, combined that with falling oil prices, any targeted nations economy would falter.”
There would be no sanctions if Russia had stayed out of Crimea and Ukraine.
“With concerns to the Ukraine and Crimea, they belong too Russia not NATO.”
Imperialist much? The USSR is over, comrade.
“Ever since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the US and NATO have shoving military installations into all the former Soviet satellite nations, hoping to surround and destroy the recuperating Russia.”
No, former nations who suffered under Soviet oppression are afraid to have Russian tanks in their towns, so they turned to NATO for protection.
“Isn’t it fair to give back Hawaii to its people if Russia has to do the same with the Ukraine?”
Are you saying that you have something against giving Ukraine to its people? Seriously?
“BTW if it wasn’t for Russia destroying the Tartars the Ukraine would be just another fetid backwater Muslim rat hole.”
And you say that right after the strawman of Hawaii? Seriously?
“Don’t throw stones in a glass house either when accusing Russia of corruption.”
Tu quoque is a logical fallacy.
“We have politicians in both parties taking millions from Saudi and Qatary governments, why else would we be supporting ISIS in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Nigeria, Somalia and Turkey. Some of our best “All American” politicians are lining their pockets with this money- the Clintons, the entire Bush clan, B Dole, Grover Norquist and most probably John McCain and Lindsey Graham. The Republican Superpacs all have Saudi donations.”
Did I ever argued otherwise? In any case, how does that relate to the kleptocracy going on in Russia?
“We also have Mafia in most major US cities and soon the Mexican drug cartels will be firmly anchored in many of the South West States.”
Again, how does that relate to Russia? Oh, wait, tu quoque.
“Russian women being used as sex slaves?”
Yes. Do you deny that?
“Wasn’t a child prostitution sex ring busted during the Super Bowl in San Francisco? Many young girls and boys were saved from rape.”
You know I’m European, right? I don’t know everything that goes on in the US. In any case, how does that relate to the matter at hand? Oh, wait, it doesn’t – tu quoque.
“It’s Catholic separatist factions fighting Orthodox Christians in the Ukraine.”
Right, nothing to do with Russia… /sarc. off
“There would have been peace in that nation but again the US and NATO dumped money and weapons into west Ukraine hoping to make it a NATO member in the backyard of Russia.”
Or maybe, just maybe, the Ukrainians don’t trust the Russians, and turned to NATO for help in case Russia decided to reform the USSR. But wait, didn’t you just tried to pass it off as a religiously motivated war?
“Many more Christians are being murdered daily by the US funded Free Syrian Army than are dying in the Ukraine. Don’t you care about those Christians, Angemon?”
I DO care, hence why I’ve tried to push for Europe to take in only Christian refugees. The thing is, I ALSO care about the Christians (whether Catholic or Orthodox), and Atheists, and Agnostics, and pretty much everyone who is dying in a war caused by Russia. The question is, do you care about them? From what you’ve said so far, I doubt it.
Avenger says
Twist and squirm as much as you want, it’s not working Angemon.
Oh BTW, your beloved west Europe will soon be a fetid Muslim hell hole too.
Enjoy!
Angemon says
Avenger posted:
“Twist and squirm as much as you want, it’s not working Angemon.
Oh BTW, your beloved west Europe will soon be a fetid Muslim hell hole too.
Enjoy!”
The Oracle has spoken! Do not question the Oracle!
Avenger says
Thanks! I like that one.
Peggy says
You again.
We get it. You hate Putin and want the rest of us to as well.
Well, most of us here appreciate what he is doing.
Don’t say you don’t hate him because it’s clear that you do.
Can you comment on the article we are discussing for a change?
Bravo Putin. You are the only one prepared to fight the Cancer.
Angemon says
Peggyposted:
“You again.”
That’s what I should be saying. You again? And lying abouy me? Again? What a shock! (not)
“We get it. You hate Putin and want the rest of us to as well.”
Nonsense. You, on the other hand, hate anyone who criticizes Putin. You can’t even bring yourself to admit there may be some merit on what I say. No, it’s just that I “hate Putin” and I “want you to as well”. Put fingers on your ears, and shout “LA LA LA; I CAN’T HEAR YOU!!!”
“Well, most of us here appreciate what he is doing.”
Who made you the spokesperson of people here? And you appreciate him running Russia into the ground?
“Don’t say you don’t hate him because it’s clear that you do.”
I don’t. I dislike him because he’s an autocrat running a Mafia and exploiting the Russian people. And I express my dislike of him by criticizing him for it.
“Can you comment on the article we are discussing for a change?”
Translation: “I just had my saying, so don’t you dare to reply to me”. In any case, way ahead of you, Miss Peggy, so stop trying to pretend otherwise:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/02/russia-hit-1888-targets-in-syria-in-a-week-us-count-just-16#comment-1378228
Angemon says
“Can you comment on the article we are discussing for a change?”
Because you stayed soooo on topic when you went out of your way to lie about me, right? RIGHT?!?!?!?!?!
Peggy says
“Well, most of us here appreciate what he is doing.”
Who made you the spokesperson of people here? And you appreciate him running Russia into the ground?
========================
Nobody made me the spokesperson but I read what others have to say and most are not in agreement with you.
Again with the running Russia into the ground bull.
I don’t agree with you on that one. I don’t think he is running Russia into the ground.
You have so much to say about Putin and Russia that you can’t stop. If only you said as much about Obama and the way the US and western Europe are destroying themselves.
Don’t you realize by now that you are in the minority and getting on people’s nerves. How many people have to directly disagree with you to stop?
I get it. You have your opinions but you have nothing to back them up with so stop arguing with everyone.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“Nobody made me the spokesperson”
Then stop acting like someone did.
“but I read what others have to say and most are not in agreement with you.”
Prove it. Name the people who are not in agreement with me on Putin not being a patriot so we can compare them with the number of active users and see if it’s indeed a majority.
“Again with the running Russia into the ground bull.
I don’t agree with you on that one. I don’t think he is running Russia into the ground.”
And not agreeing with me is not the same as me being wrong. Next.
“You have so much to say about Putin and Russia that you can’t stop.”
If that offends you, stop reading my posts. Or grow a thicker skin.
“If only you said as much about Obama and the way the US and western Europe are destroying themselves.”
Are you blind AND stupid in addition to liar? Have you NOT seen my hundreds, if not thousands, of posts over the years criticizing Obama, the US, Europe, the EU and its elected leaders? The amount of posts I produced criticizing Obama, the US, Europe, the EU and its elected leaders dwarf the couple dozens or so of posts I made criticizing Putin, both in size and scope. That you need to try to imply otherwise doesn’t bode well for your argument or your credibility.
“Don’t you realize by now that you are in the minority”
Ah, so because I’m allegedly a minority I need to stop exercising my right to freely express myself. How Putin-esque of you! Also, see above – you have yet to prove I’m a minority.
“and getting on people’s nerves.”
No, I’m getting on your nerves because I’m questioning your quasi-religious dogmatic idolatry of Putin. You already admitted you’re not a spokesperson, so stop acting acting like you are.
“How many people have to directly disagree with you to stop?”
Two – marc and Robert Spencer. You know, the people who are responsible for running this site.
“I get it. You have your opinions but you have nothing to back them up with so stop arguing with everyone.”
How casually dismissive of you. You can’t back your point, therefore your only chance is to claim I can’t back mine. For example, it’s not true that Putin crippled the already weakened Russian economy by interfering in Ukrainian affairs and thus inviting international sanctions – it’s just my “opinion”, and I certainly can’t “back it up”, right? RIGHT?!?!?!
Allan Mandrowski says
Interesting how you accuse Russia of Imperialism, yet it is the United States who are the most imperial of them all. Meddling, creating civil war and causing destruction and mayhem everywhere around the world, in the process endangering us all by heavily arming and financially supporting radical islamists.
Putin, thank you, does a much better job at protecting us from these savages than the USA.
Only a Russiaphobe and a troll would say otherwise.
Angemon says
Allan Mandrowski posted:
“Interesting how you accuse Russia of Imperialism, yet it is the United States who are the most imperial of them all.”
That is factually incorrect. Obama is hellbent on reducing American influence worldwide. In any case, whether the US are imperialistic or not makes no difference to whether Russia is imperial or not, does it?
“Meddling, creating civil war and causing destruction and mayhem everywhere around the world, in the process endangering us all by heavily arming and financially supporting radical islamists.”
You *do* know that the withdrawal of American troops from Iraq is what allowed ISIS to come into the scene, right? In any case, that means nothing to whether or not Putin’s Russia is am imperialist entity, does it?
“Putin, thank you, does a much better job at protecting us from these savages than the USA.”
Yeah, it’s not like there have been any islamic terrorist attacks on Russia during Putin’s watch, or whatever!*cough*Nord-Ost *cough*Beslan*cough*
“Only a Russiaphobe and a troll would say otherwise.”
Yeah, only a Russiaphobe and a troll would point out facts that go against your narrative, as opposed to a Russophile troll (maybe even paid in Rubles – google “Russian Web Brigade”) trying to obfuscate Russian’s expansionism and imperialism.
The Oracle says
I your brainiac world Angemon, the Soviet Union was to collapse, then with the much needed help it got from its former adversaries (received zero), resurrect itself into a “Switzerland of the East” type of Eden.
All the West saw in Russia’s collapse was a land in chaos ready to be exploited but the Russian people understood this and began to dig in. Russians are tough and I hope they establish themselves as a world power again to offset my governments (US) mentally challenged foreign policy. What Putin has done with Russia is next to amazing. Merkel – Putin, Obama – Putin?
Putin makes the other two look like goat herders.
Angemon says
What are you talking about? Russia had plenty of good will from its former Cold War enemies. Just look at how they were allowed to join the G7 despite not being a democracy or being up to G7 standards. After the fall of the Berlin wall, the West assumed Russia would join them in the civilized world and dropped their guard – they never accounted for someone like Putin. During the Cold War, Soviet propaganda, both for internal and external consumption, was all about how Communism would usher in an utopia. Now, it’s all about how America is the devil and is trying to bring Russia down. What did Putin do with Russia, besides exploiting it to serve his interests and those of his cronies?
The Oracle says
Excellent point Angemon, that Russia was allowed into the G7.
HOWEVER –
1) US and NATO planning to build a line of ABM sites ( they can become offensive ) in former Warsaw Pact nations spanning a thousand kilometers. That’s not how you treat a friend.
2) US and NATO bombing Serbia into ruins, Serbia being a very close Russian ally. Not too friendly there either.
3) Construction of US military bases or offices in Kyrgyzstan, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, the Baltic States, Turkey, Poland, Iraq, Albania, occupied Cyprus, Georgia, Romania, Albania, Montenegro, Bulgaria, Hungary, Czech Republc, Croatia, Slovakia, Ukraine, Moldova, Bosnia, Slovenia and Macedonia. Not nice.
4) Helping Pakistan maintain its nuclear arsenal. A horrendous mistake.
This transference of allegiances was precipitated by fear of the old Soviet Union and huge money – weapons aid from the USA and West Europe. This ring of pro-West nations is almost like rebuilding the Berlin Wall in reverse, most of this occurring pre-Putin and post-Gorbachev.
If the West were to allow Russia and Iran to destroy ISIS, along with the other Sunni terror groups in Syria, I believe there will be a permanent peace and a reversal of refugees (especially Kurdish, Christian and Yashidis) back too Syria.
Thanks for letting me vent Angemon, I truly respect and like your many point of views. I’ll definitely await your reply but this is my last salvo in support of Vladimir Putin on this story.
Angemon says
I agree with you, The Oracle, that NATO should have stayed out of the civil war in Bosnia. Not because of it being a Russian ally but because it was a *civil* war and none of the sides posed a clear, direct threat to the West. Do keep in mind, though, that the Serbian Army attacked UN-designated Safe Zones. As for the missile defense system, Obama gave it up to buy a respite from Putin during the 2012 elections, so it’s a moot point. But, as far as I know, it was meant as a defense mechanism, not with the intent to attack or threaten Russia – although I don’t doubt that Putin and the state-controlled media, who churn out anti-American propaganda both for internal and external consumption, presented it as an example of American aggression and why Russia needs Putin to protect them from the big, bad West.
Regarding the military bases in countries formerly under the sphere of influence of the USSR, try asking their citizens what they think of it. Can you blame them for wanting to make sure they won’t have Russian tanks driving by their cities?
I also agree with you that Pakistan shouldn’t have been allowed to develop nukes. It’s not as much the threat of the existing ones falling in the wrong hands that worries me (at least not as long as the jizyia keeps flowing), it’s the threat of someone somewhere in their manufacturing process gradually supplying terrorists with enough materials so they can build their own. If I remember things correctly, how could Pakistan’s nuclear program have been prevented, short of having India starting a war? China saw with good eyes a counter-power to India so they allegedly sided with, and provided assistance to, Pakistan (although China officially denies any involvement), the US wasn’t interested in sparking what would be yet another Indo-Pakistani war (or, according to rumours, they saw what happened when China was left unchecked and decided not to make the same mistake with India – if so, the people who took that decision must be sorely regretting it by now) so they washed their hands from it, and Russia… well, if I remember things correctly, Russia had no special interests in the area and had other things to worry about, so they also did nothing.
As for the time between Gorbachev and Putin, after the fall of the Wall, the West forgot one crucial detail: there were no leaders in Russia with democratic experience. Plus, the borders were open, so smart, independent-thinking people – the people that could make a difference – were no longer forced to stay in Russia, they could simply emigrate and start a new life elsewhere. Which many did, and that tendency continues nowadays. While it saw a failed coup and the rise of oligarchs and gangsters (something for which the West has little, if any, blame), it also saw a younger generation having an unparalleled level of freedom and innovation (with all the benefits and caveats it entails), compared to their parent’s generation, so not all was bad.
And while I agree with you in supporting Assad against ISIS (the US should know by now what happens when their national interests take a backseat to their pathological altruism), the nuclear deal (may it live in infamy and eternal shame) will tip the local balance of power in Iran’s favour. One must keep in mind that Iran’s endgame is also to establish a caliphate, although a shia one. To make things worse, the “Twelvers” will have no problem in sacrificing millions of their own to usher the return of the Mahdi (although I’m certain the mullahs will have a seat reserved in a nuclear bunker somewhere), so one should be careful when trying to prop a state such as Iran – as it is, history already has enough examples of countries and people who tried to use muslims to further their agenda while forgetting that they have an agenda of their own.
The Oracle says
You force a reply Angemon!
The ABM system is on hold because Putin threatened to build 100’s of mobile medium range missiles too counter this threat. This gave NATO and Obama pause but they are now instead sending millions of dollars in military aid to the new NATO Baltic States.
Putin doesn’t need propaganda to convince the Russian people of the Wests evil intent, it’s very real.
Your argument that nations that border Russia want US military and economic aid to keep Russian tanks off their streets, I disagree. I believe it’s just plain old bribery that opens the door to these corrupt governments. You keep thinking that Russia is still a communist nation, thank God it’s not.
Pakistans nuclear missile ranch was built by China AND the USA. The Soviet Union and India were developing economic and military ties, so again the USA sleeps with a Muslim whore to counter their alliance.
Angemon, don’t “cut off your nose to spite your face”.
If Putin was forced to step down he might be replaced by a lying coward like Obama, or a traitor like Merkel, or a blithering idiot like Cameron. How tough against the Muslim hordes would your Queen Margrethe be in his place?
Putin is at the right place at the right time.
Angemon says
The Oracle posted:
“You force a reply Angemon!”
I certainly hope not – I expect you to answer out of your own free will in the spirit of open discussion.
“The ABM system is on hold because Putin threatened to build 100’s of mobile medium range missiles too counter this threat. This gave NATO and Obama pause but they are now instead sending millions of dollars in military aid to the new NATO Baltic States.”
No, Obama gave it away in exchange to buy some “Putin-free” during the 2012 elections:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py8BF0hHPnc
That system was supposed to serve as defense against Iran, not Russia.
“Putin doesn’t need propaganda to convince the Russian people of the Wests evil intent, it’s very real.”
Then why does he and the state-controlled media churn it out like there’s no tomorrow? And not just the “Smoking kills more people per year than Obama” posters for internal consumption – just look at what Putin said to international media about, for example, the FIFA scandal, the killing of Boris Nemtsov (at the time of his untimely death Nemtsov was working on a report about how Russian troops were involved in the Ukrainian conflict) or the recent bombing of a hospital in Syria. All US conspiracies against Russia.
Putin *needs* to sell the idea that there’s a worldwide conspiracy against Russia, and that everyone else is out to get Russia, to keep the Russian people afraid to question the status quo. Yes, many thousands of Russian girls are lost to sex trafficking (many ending in muslim countries), yes, there’s a high rate of alcohol consumption, leading to high rates of homicide and suicide, yes, more than half of the 2014 Olympics budget went straight to the pockets of Putin’s cronies, yes, Nigeria is officially better at controlling corruption than Russia, but the West is out to get Russia, and Putin alone prevents it. See how that works?
“Your argument that nations that border Russia want US military and economic aid to keep Russian tanks off their streets, I disagree.”
Like I said, ask the people there.
“Pakistans nuclear missile ranch was built by China AND the USA. The Soviet Union and India were developing economic and military ties, so again the USA sleeps with a Muslim whore to counter their alliance.”
Nope. The US and Russia, for whatever reasons each might have had, did nothing while China aided Pakistan. And speaking of sleeping with muslim whores, how are things going with Iran?
“If Putin was forced to step down he might be replaced by a lying coward like Obama, or a traitor like Merkel, or a blithering idiot like Cameron.”
My bet is on him being replaced by an even more ruthless autocratic kleptocrat. Like I said, there are no leaders in Russia with democratic experience.
“How tough against the Muslim hordes would your Queen Margrethe be in his place?”
Who?
The Oracle says
Angemon
Look up “Atoms for Peace”. The USA started Pakistans nuclear program. Hmmmm.
Also, on another posting I thought you stated you were from Denmark, sorry if I got that wrong.
Angemon says
The Oracle posted:
“Look up “Atoms for Peace”. The USA started Pakistans nuclear program. ”
In 1955, for nuclear energy, not nuclear weapons, something Pakistan only started pursuing in the early 1970‘s – quite different from what you stated:
The Oracle says
I guess with that reasoning the Soviets didn’t kick start Irans nuclear weapons program either.
Give us a break, the US was delighted and had full knowledge of China building the Paki bomb, we had our scientists, teachers, foreign office and military all in country when this weapon system was coming to fruition. It was the US containment policy of the USSR then and it’s the same against Russia now.
Then you agree, the only two world super powers were much like Johnny Appleseed, building nuclear power plants in Muslim nations for the betterment of Mankind?
Angemon says
The Oracle posted:
“I guess with that reasoning the Soviets didn’t kick start Irans nuclear weapons program either.”
Ah, so you’re dishonest to the point of trying to pretend that helping a nuclear energy program and going as far as providing assistance to produce nuke-missiles are the same thing. Got it.
“Give us a break, the US was delighted and had full knowledge of China building the Paki bomb”
Prove it. Also, pick a story and stick with it. Did the US help build Pakistan’s nukes or did they sit in the sidelines cheering silently while China did it? Because it seems you’re trying too hard to blame the US and push forward some anti-Russian conspiracy theory. Also, remind me who helped China’s nuclear weapons program? Oh, yeah – the Soviets. Without Soviets giving China nuclear capabilities Pakistan wouldn’t have nuclear weapons.
“ It was the US containment policy of the USSR then”
Huh, what? Pakistan is a counter-power to India, not USSR back then or Russia now.
“and it’s the same against Russia now.”
Again: Chinese, who got their nuclear weapons because of the Soviets, helped Pakistan produce nuclear weapons. There’s no anti-USSR or anti-Soviet conspiracy. No Soviet giving Chairman Mao nukes = no Chinese giving Pakistan nukes. It’s that simple.
“Then you agree, the only two world super powers were much like Johnny Appleseed, building nuclear power plants in Muslim nations for the betterment of Mankind?”
Again, you’re being dishonest and trying to engage in a blatantly false comparison. Or are you trying to argue that 1955 Pakistan, where the US helped with a nuclear energy program, was the same as 1990’s Iran, where the Soviets helped after the Americans said “Nope”, in terms of political landscape, ideology and hatred of America?
The Oracle says
No I’m sticking to what I’ve stated. Are you mad that you just walked into your own trap?
You’re the one who is delusional to think that the US was only helping Pakistan build Nuclear power plants and not thinking it would lead directly to a weapons program. If the US were to directly construct the silos and missiles the USSR would take direct actions against the US. Yes, we were rooting for the Chinese at the time, there was conflict brewing between the two comunist powers and Pakistan was just another example of Soviet containment. You can’t be that simple to believe that a nuclear Pakistan will only check India. It also kept Iran from invading Afghanistan when Sunnis (Taliban) were slaughtering Shia Afghanis. I hate the Iranians too but why should they be denied the bomb when Pakistan has it? Pakistan is always threatening India with nuclear carnage. Is India less important than Israel? They are both real, functioning democracies yet the West and especially the US has abandoned both of them.
Angemon says
The Oracle posted:
“No I’m sticking to what I’ve stated.”
No, you literally are not:
“You’re the one who is delusional to think that the US was only helping Pakistan build Nuclear power plants and not thinking it would lead directly to a weapons program.”
I didn’t say you were delusional, did I? Not yet, at least. Apparently, you’re as good to sticking to what I say as you are to stick to what you say… Anyway, do you know anything about how the Pakistani nuclear weapons program came to be? Because so far it seems you really don’t. How about you read a book once in a while and LEARN before trying to lecture people or buying into shadowy conspiracy theories? Back in the 1950’s no one believed a poor, backwater country could develop nuclear weapons. And they were right about it – the info required to develop nuclear weapons was given state-to-state on a trust basis. Again, go learn about the history of the Pakistani program.
Not that it matters, anyway – you already acknowledged that the Chinese were fundamental, so what’s the point of trying to go “b-b-b-ut, the US, they knew Pakistan would eventually develop nuclear weapons!!!”? I mean, other than trying to keep a tinfoil-hat conspiracy theory lunacy going.
“If the US were to directly construct the silos and missiles the USSR would take direct actions against the US.”
So you’re saying that the Chinese, historically allies with the Soviets, somehow acted in alignment with the Americans, and that the Soviets did nothing to stop it?
“Yes, we were rooting for the Chinese at the time, there was conflict brewing between the two comunist powers and Pakistan was just another example of Soviet containment.”
Again: no USSR giving nuclear capabilities to the Chinese, no Pakistan nuclear weapons. Perhaps you should blame Moscow instead of trying to spin crazy conspiracy theories?
“You can’t be that simple to believe that a nuclear Pakistan will only check India.”
Seeing how that was their local opposing superpower, and applying Occam’s Razor…
“ It also kept Iran from invading Afghanistan when Sunnis (Taliban) were slaughtering Shia Afghanis.”
When?
“I hate the Iranians too but why should they be denied the bomb when Pakistan has it?”
Because the Iranians already stated that they want nukes to nuke Israel? Because of what the “Twelvers” teach about the end of days? Because two wrongs don’t make a right? Take your pick.
“Pakistan is always threatening India with nuclear carnage. Is India less important than Israel?”
Which of these countries can’t sustain, a death tool of, let’s say, 10 million: India, Pakistan, Iran or Israel? Are you really implying that if we don’t allow the Iranians to nuke Israel we somehow don’t care about India, What manner of insane troll logic is that? I don’t want to see either Israel or India suffering through a nuclear war, and I doubt anyone here thinks differently, but there’s nothing we can do now about Pakistani’s nuclear weaponry. We CAN do something about Iran, though. Are you saying we shouldn’t?
Also, stop trying to pretend you’re American. You’re not fooling anyone.
The Oracle says
Yes Angemon. You’re so right I should have said “you are delusional”, I have 5 living distractions while typing away on my iPhone.
You said the US thought that a “back water” nation couldn’t develop a nuclear weapon system. The US was going to have in place a monitoring system to keep this very thing from happening. Three other nations also received the ” Atoms for Peace” initiative with supposed safe guards. Didn’t want those nuclear power plants being used as a catalyst for a weapons program. Guess what Angemon? A few years later all four nations had the Bomb. Those new nuclear powers were India, Israel, Pakistan and South Africa.
Yes, the US was instrumental in the development of Pakistans nuclear Arsenal.
You need to start cracking open some books yourself.,
Yes you are correct that the US has nothing to do with Irans nuclear ambitions. We were and still are in a low level war with them, plus our Saudi masters would never allow that anyway. It isn’t keeping our West European allies from selling technologies and equipment that will help them on there way to getting the bomb.
If or when Iran does break the brokered deal with Obama the next administration will most likely use military force directly and build a “state of the art” ABM system for Israel.
The only time I was accused of being a troll was by the lunatic Phillip Jihadski, I hope you won’t go there too.
Why do you think I’m not American? Do you think I’m a Russian or Serb?
What part of the world do you hail from?
Angemon says
The Oracle posted:
“You said the US thought that a “back water” nation couldn’t develop a nuclear weapon system.”
And I stand by that, as anyone who knows how the Pakistani nuclear weapons program came to be. Hence why I asked you what you know about it. I’d like to get an answer to that.
“Three other nations also received the ” Atoms for Peace” initiative with supposed safe guards. Didn’t want those nuclear power plants being used as a catalyst for a weapons program. Guess what Angemon? A few years later all four nations had the Bomb. Those new nuclear powers were India, Israel, Pakistan and South Africa.”
We’re talking about Pakistan and how its nuclear weapons program came to be. Do you know anything about it or are unwarranted, unsubstantiated implications all you have?
“Yes, the US was instrumental in the development of Pakistans nuclear Arsenal.”
You keep going back and forth: “the US and China build Pakistan’s nuclear ranch. The US stood by cheering while China did it. The US were instrumental in the development of Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal” without ever going into specifics. Again: do you know how Pakistan’s nuclear weapons program came to be?
“You need to start cracking open some books yourself.”
I have read books about it, hence why, based on what you’ve been saying up so far, I can only conclude you have zero knowledge on the subject.
“The only time I was accused of being a troll was by the lunatic Phillip Jihadski, I hope you won’t go there too.”
PJ had a nose for that – he identified plenty of trolls back when they were still trying to pretend to be well-mannered. As for whether or not I go there, that depends on you. For example, when you flip-flop back and forth on a subject you show to have zero knowledge about only to tell me to go crack open some books, guess what side that tips the scale to?
Also, what name did you went by when PJ accused you of being a troll?
Rob Porter says
Christianblood, a fascinating revelation about the Christians celebrating last Christmas in Damascus while trash Barack Obama and other Western ‘leaders’ vilify Assad. In my opinion Assad is no saint, but he knows the enemy he is up against and returns with compliments their brand of violence – while the Western media covers their ‘good guy’s’ violence (including use of chemical weapons). Rather Assad in power then the vermin Muslim Brotherhood and al Qaeda America is supporting in Syria. What an irony, our side has become the enemy, the American president the enemy and a lying piece of rubbish.
Carolyne says
John McCain said that the anti-Assad army is pro Western and he knows that because he had lunch with some of them and they told him so. So there!
Avenger says
No Carolyne. McCain had lunch and sex later with Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. I don’t think he’s all that moderate.
DFD says
Linda Barrera, and others
You all have points, and it is easy to jumble issues.
Let’s note one thing, the forces opposing Assad are Sunnis. Everybody else seems to be happy with him.
Whoever can, flees from the Sunnis (and from the Shias too, normally) to, yes, to Assad! But our beloved Sunni allies, moderate Saudi Arabia, Qatar, etc. hate him. The press is constantly trotting the government line that Assad, the devil to Riyadh, needs to be removed so that a secular government can be established.
Doesn’t that strike anybody as odd? Assad runs a secular government. As did the other’s whom we helped to topple. Right, so once Assad is toppled, the Sunnis will establish secular governments, under Saudi, Kuwaiti, Qatari etc. tutelage. Reflecting their own secular governments… There’s something wrong with this picture.
Could it be that we groomed the wrong allies? Everything’s possible, for a $/€, sorry, I meant of course: For a bbl of crude.
As far as Putin is concerned, he’s doing what our leaders should do: Grabbing opportunities! The notion that the Ukraine is Russian is total bullox, look at historical maps. Putin underestimated the west, which should have reacted a lot stronger. Having said that, the Crimea is definitely, by population and history Russian. That Nikki gave it to the Ukrainians as a gift while they were part of the USSR means, mostly, nothing. Putin should have played it differently, he should have said: “Ukraine, we have no problem with you, but the Crimea belongs to us, never mind Nikki’s game. We know that you have massive debt problems. We cancel your debt, and there’s a year of free gas. How about it?” Kiev would have kissed his butt.
Returning to the ‘freedom loving’ rebels? Let’s see, does anybody remember the Balkan war? The Serbs with their rape camps? How the US moved in, under pressure from Muslim countries, and of course Soros, whilst Europe didn’t want to know; do you remember? Now consider this: The first rape camps were established by the Bosnians, the Muslims – in case that surprises you. The Serbs responded with vengeance! And what did the west do? Bombed Serbia into submission, and secured and established Muslim countries in central Europe! Bosnia Herzegovina and Albania already existed, but Muslim dominance was now assured; and Kosovo.
Kosovo, largely Christian became largely Muslim, 30,000 Churches destroyed. Christians, ethnically cleansed. A friend of mine watched as a peacekeeper, still makes him sick. Kosovo, that’s where King Lazar made a last stand against the Muslim hordes: “Today we give up everything for Christ – and Christ for nothing.” He bought Europe valuable time. But thanks to our bombs, it’s Islamic now, multicultural and secular. As long as the culture is Islamic and secularity means Muslim faith.
Think people, think!
underbed cat says
Happened to listen to the Democratic debate, the comments from Hill, Russia is still the bad player..
while they were really taking out Isis.. as they were terrorizing, killing in Syria attempting to grab the land for the caliphate..caught that comment.
Christianblood says
US, Qatar, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, ISIS, Nato have one agenda and their agenda is not to fight “ISIS” as their claim to be, that is for little a side show for the masses. Their Real agenda is (Regime Change), that is to topple President Bashar Al-Assad of Syria
and replace him with various Sunni jihadist groups. Their plan was use ISIS and sixty other islamic jihadist groups against Assad and his army and that seems to have failed and now they probably try to invade Syria and this will may be trigger WWIII. Please watch the video clip below that will tell the reason for this:
Angemon says
Has the Obama administration complained about how the big, mean Russians are bombing the “moderates” they’re supporting?
wtf says
Can’t wait for Trump and Putin get together to play war games. Should be quite a show. Go you Russians
WorkingClassPost says
I’m losing the will to even debate this one.
There are only two people fighting for Christianity right now.
One is Vladimir Putin, the other is Bashar al-Assad.
Neither are Catholic or even what we might call Democrats, so please MSM, don’t give me shit about right or wrong until you have the islamic blade at your throat.
mortimer says
WCP wrote: “shit about right or wrong”
Well, let’s discuss: World War II was about right and wrong and so is the war against ISIS.
An essential part of fascism is the REJECTION OF RIGHT AND WRONG. That is what several posters and WCP are recommending. So how is that REJECTION part of fascism?
Prof. Robert Paxton defined fascism as a kind of `EMOTIONAL LAVA’ with the following characteristics: 1. a sense of overwhelming crisis beyond reach of TRADITIONAL SOLUTIONS; 2. belief one’s group is the victim, justifying ANY ACTION WITHOUT LEGAL OR MORAL LIMITS; 3. need for authority by a natural leader above the law, relying on the superiority of his instincts; 4. right of the chosen people to dominate others without legal or moral restraint; 5. fear of foreign `contamination.’ Moreover, fascism demands a succession of wars, foreign conquests, and national threats to keep the nation in a state of fear, anxiety and patriotic hypertension. Those who disagree are branded ideological traitors.
Many people in this forum have just used these categories to describe their feelings about Putin…who is a fascist. If the fascist EMOTIONAL LAVA fits, wear it!
Western society is built on the Golden Rule and critical thought. Fascism rejects both.
Norman says
For Mortimer: If one adheres to the parameters established by this man Paxton, then one might reasonably argue that Putin is some sort of “fascist”. However, a more standard definition of “fascism” is as follows:
“A political philosophy, movement or regime that exalts nation and race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition;” also: “a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control.” This from Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary.
Aside from “forcible suppression of opposition”, none of the above pertains to Putin. What so many Brits and Americans fail to understand is that Putin, like almost all Russians, esteems stability and security above what passes in the West as “freedom”.
Sadly, most westerners have lost any understanding of what freedom really means and in its stead have replaced it with permissive hedonism. America no longer has “freedom”. It has incipient anarchy and selfish pseudo-individualism.
As a former American, I find what passes for “news” in America to be nothing more than partisan, biased propaganda directed at Russia, and as a former American, I advise those who get their news from the BBC, CNN and other major news outlets (be they Republican or Democrat) to be very wary of accepting what is offered as credible reporting.
We have found, living in Europe, that (even surprising to us) RT, “Russia Today”, has consistently offered the ONLY credible objective news about what is really happening here on the streets of Germany. As residents of Germany, we have seen how the BBC and CNN have consistently lied about the facts of the asylum chaos.
Lastly, it is very helpful to remember that the Russia of today is NOT the U.S.S.R. Merely because Putin does not grovel before American policy makers does not make him a fascist.
DFD says
Norman,
that was a very interesting post. I wish, I really wish, people would stop that utter nonsense about referring to the Muslim problem as Fascism or Bolshevism. The only thing Islam has in common with these is the desire for world dominance. That is the only objective they have in common.
Equating Islam with these is, at best, wishful thinking. It leads to the wrong conclusions, the parameters and strategies – assumed our thoughts matter. Take a look at Muslim history, strategies, tactics, operational patterns, nothing even remotely resembles Fascism or Bolshevism. Neither does their propaganda approach nor the sedition tactics. Yet, all readers are quoting Quran, Hadith, the Traveller – how on earth can anyone reach the conclusion that Islam is even remotely compatible?
Does anybody even remotely believe they’d send a tank division up north or west? They’d be wiped out before they have a lunch break. And even if they’d fantasize about it, they couldn’t support such an enterprise, their manufacturing ability as well as capacity is next to zero.
We are under attack by a completely, thoroughly different enemy. Their primary weapon is money – and our idiocy. Guilt feelings and all that rubbish.
WorkingClassPost says
For the record Mortimer, I care deeply about right and wrong, so if you didn’t understand my comment’, then that’s my bad. The right and wrong I complained about, was, and stgill is, the overbearing, self-righteous codswallop put out by the West, and apparently the guy you spoke about too.
Rezali Mehil says
Salaam Working Class…
Indeed your comment shows your common status …the christians are but a small side show in this. Any religion that cannot defend itself will slowly but surely sink into oblivion and that is what is happening to Christianity ….even your brethren …hell EVEN THE POPE does not care or dare to speak out. They are too busy verbally fighting everyone else for the Sunnis right to do it to them …this pope of yours is hoping they will be gone from this earth before the sunnis are at the gate of the Vatican … by then it’s SEP …somebody else’s problem.
Now for the reality ….This is a war for the right of one set of muslims to call themselves the best of muslims. This is the same fight between sunni and shia that started over 1000 years ago.
The sunni thought they could go in roughshod and just take away shia ruled Syria from Assad…(like the saudi are also doing in Yemen…trying to eliminate the very pleasant Houthis) and expand it as Sunni….but Assad has fought back…he is a survivor. Obama has shamelessly armed the sunni …the so called “moderates” 30 to 40,000 of them in Syria trying to take over from Syria and replace it with murderous sunni mercenary warlords…(and engage that small brain of yours to think of the fate of the Christians if that happens).
But the Russian backing of the Shia (quite by accident, to protect their naval base in Syria) and Putin’s will to battle properly has not only put a stop to the sunni advance …but started to put it in decline.
With the surrounding of Aleppo, with Shia militia, Hezbollah, Iranians and the heroic Syrian army …all supported with Russian air power…there is a real danger of the sunni moderates being wiped out.
The sunni cannot accept this …..so you read about Turkey and the saudi scum sending in their troops to fight ISIS …what they really mean is that they want to bolster the moderates …to stop them from being wiped out.
The Saudi have last week sent their war planes to Turkey (to be spray painted as Turkish/NATO) …and WILL start to fly sorties from there … in the hope that when they are shot down… that NATO is sucked in by saying that a NATO plane had been shot down and give Obama the excuse to say that the Russin s400s need to be destroyed.
Ofcourse you should already realise (although a commoner like you won’t) that this dastardly plan has been approved by Obama.
Commoner …The bottom line is this …. worldwide the 80% sunni muslim pollution (sorry population) simply CANNOT allow the 20% shia to win… at ANY cost…. whether this means NATO being sucked in …whether this means 3rd world war starting or whether this Pakistani nukes brought into theatre…OR even if the world is destroyed.
The SHAME to the 80% …the sniggering of the shia 5vers, 7vers or 12vers, the snide comments which the shia might make with broad chests ALL AROUND THIS DUNIYA for the 1st time in over a thousand years …well that simply cannot be allowed to happen…better that the world is destroyed than to see that day …and if some pitiful few christians are crushed in that titanic struggle …you think the sunni care about that.
Just for the record the shia are blessed peoples and do not mock and snigger … do you see me doing that ?
NO… if you want to see these few christians survive …best stick with Assdas matey…
More Later …
Rezali
duh_swami says
You’re Hillary Clinton in real life, aren’t you?
Carolyne says
I thought it was Obama, but I’m sure he’s a Sunni. This war between Sunnis and Shia’as has been going since No-ham-ed died. Let them kill each other. The world will be better for it
Western Canadian says
RM,
you are known far and wide as a male muslim, who dresses up in his wives cloths, puts on their makeup, drapes a bra over his head, runs outside, chases the butterflies while shouting ‘Wait, wait, I am one of you!!!’.
You are the tyupical muslim moron, to stupid to be capable of formulating rational arguments, and an habitual liar. Take a long hike, and don’t come back. Your dishonest drivel impresses no one, here, and only a fool of your status could take it seriously.
The Oracle says
You’re spot on Razali, except NATO doesn’t have the balls to enter this fray.
Turkey would have to be invaded by Russia or Iran or both for that response.
Pumbar says
…best stick with Assdas matey…”
I knew you worked in a supermarket.
Peggy says
Amen.
UNCLE VLADDI says
VLA VLA VLAD PUTIN, HERO OF THE RUSSIAN MEME!
HE RODE A BEAR AND HIS SHIRT WASN’T ON!
Sung to the tune of Ra Ra Ras putin
(Next lyric?)
duh_swami says
Hillary said Mubarack must go, and he went leaving Egypt in a mess,,,Then Hillary said Qaddafi must go, and he went, leaving Libya in a mess, then Hillary said Assad must go, and they are still working on that one, creating a huge mess…Had Hillary kept her mouth shut, Putin would.t be in there now…
If elected expect Hillary to create bigger and better messes…
Georg says
I’d just ask people to remember Putin is virulently anti-Western. Ask yourselves, “Why is it RT ran continuous coverage of Occupy Wall Street but never has an unkind word for Putin?” Are the goals of Putin and Occupy Wall Street identical? Hardly. He and his are always looking to foment unrest and discord in the West. Divide and conquer, if you will. It’s not to say his actions are always at odds with our goals, but his motives are almost never our own.
Of course McCain isn’t very popular around here for his support of “moderates” in Syria, but this quote seems to round out quite nicely Putin’s truer agenda in the theatre:
“He wants to re-establish Russia as a major power in the Middle East. He wants to use Syria as a live-fire exercise for Russia’s modernizing military, he wants to turn Latakia province into a military outpost from which to harden and enforce a Russian sphere of influence — a new Kaliningrad, or Crimea — and he wants to exacerbate the refugee crisis and use it as a weapon to divide the trans-Atlantic alliance and undermine the European project.”
Angemon says
Georg posted:
“I’d just ask people to remember Putin is virulently anti-Western. Ask yourselves, “Why is it RT ran continuous coverage of Occupy Wall Street but never has an unkind word for Putin?” ”
I’m guessing it’s because it’s a state-sponsored channel. That, or journalists in Russia know what happens when they don’t toe the party line.
Georg says
Right.