Western Europe is ripe for conquest and already in surrender mode, with its men unable or willing to protect its women from the Muslim migrants who believe that Infidel women exist for their sexual pleasure. Russia, however, doesn’t look as if it is going to go quietly into the night.
“Refugees Go Clubbing In Russia, Harass Girls, Wake Up In Hospital The Next Morning,” by Jacob Bojesson, Daily Caller, February 4, 2016:
A group of 51 refugees were brutally assaulted outside a night club in Murmansk, Russia, after they groped and molested women at a night club Saturday.
The refugees had previously been ordered to leave Norway for “bad behavior” and tried their luck in Russia. What they didn’t realize when they went out clubbing in Murmansk is that Russians have less tolerance when it comes to sexual assault on local women than other European countries.
The refugees allegedly groped and harassed women in a similar manner as the assaults in Cologne on New Year’s Eve. A group of male Russian took them aside to “educate” them that “Cologne is 2,500 kilometers south of here.”
The refugees tried to flee but were quickly captured by the Russians. They then took them out to the street and gave them a beating they will remember. Police arrived to break up the fight but locals report that they threw a few punches at the refugees before arresting 33 of them. Eighteen refugees were in such bad condition they had to be take to the hospital….
Apollyon says
Brings a tear to me eye…:)
Gary says
Me too. Finally! Someone stands up to these animals!!! Oh wait. That’s not fair to animals.
They’re PUNKS!!
Christianblood says
Unlike the politically-correct, spineless and post-modernist Western society, Russians are awake and will stop the evil islamic barbaric aggression if it raises its ugly head in Russia. Slava Rossii…
Western Canadian says
And again, we have a hard left russian loving loon cracking off about PC bull!! beyond dishonest and beyond pathetic!!
In case you have forgotten, the PC ‘bull’ that is spreading like a cancer thanks to left wing loons on campuses, left wing loons in the media, left wing loons in hollywood, left wings loons on wallstreet, as well as the left wing loons infesting the political system, your comment is truly a riot!!!
Magnus Atheos says
You are absolutely correct. The leftists have destroyed Europe. This has been the easiest conquest in the history of the world all thanks to the leftist cancer within Europe’s own society that has deliberately brought the enemy in. Canada and the US are just as politically correct and just a full of this left-wing cancer that will destroy them as well. Russia has already fought Islam and already knows how incompatible it is with any normal society and how dangerous it is. Westerners are far to naive at this point and so was Europe. Now Europe is done. Thanks leftists.
Miao Zedong says
@WC:
PC might have been started within leftist circles but rest assured it’s an entirely original product of the US left. We used to laugh about the “crazy americans” in the 80’s, you might remember the “vertically challenged” for the shorties among us. Now, almost 3 decades later PC is running rampant in Western Europe as well and having a toxic effect.
Snezana says
Bravo love you
Shane says
Good for the Russians, but why are they letting in thousands of jihadis? Don’t they already have millions of jihadis in the country?
yuri says
Dear Shane,
We, the Russian people, just like any normal human being DO hate these parasites. But, unfortunately, we have a rotten boss – Putin. He is very strong and brave when it comes to bombing mislime POS far from Russian, but he is very shy and cowardly when it comes to dealing with jihadists inside Russia.
Just as rotten (and bribed by muslimes) as Cameron, Merkel, Obama and other tolerastic “leaders”.
Panmelia says
So these despicable would-be rapists with no respect for women suddenly found themselves beaten up and in hospital. The police even got in a few punches before the gropers were dragged away like the garbage they are. How refreshing! I admire those Russian men – they imposed swift justice and taught the islamothugs a valuable lesson.
Here in the UK the defenders of the women would probably have been arrested and charged with GBH.
Am thinking of migrating to Russia.
DFD says
Panmelia says “…Am thinking of migrating to Russia.”
Panmelia, don’t even say that as a joke. Migrating under these circumstances is quitting. We Europeans need to fight, and those of us who can’t for whatever reasons, support and assist those who do. And encourage those who can.
BTW, our petition to ban sharia has so far only clocked 25,200, we are limping along. I proudly claim about 2.5 to 3,000 of these votes, I bombed every thread on every site possible. The daily Express seems to filter these by now…
Regards and thanks for voting
DFD
gravenimage says
Hear, hear!
Mike says
Wow. good for you! Sending prayers from California.
Shane says
I’m afraid that eventually millions of non-Muslims from Europe will be fleeing the rape jihad and persecution from Muslims. Hope the USA and Canada are to your liking as you may have no other options. Let’s hope the USA will elect a GOP president to protect us from the rapefugees!
Pere LaChaise says
The difference between Russia and the West is that Russians have a culture of memory that keeps the experience of war with the Ottomans alive, and in context of Russian memory, fairly recent.
The last time the West fought the Turk was the Siege of Vienna. And since then Germans in particular have ben on the side of the Turk, while Russia has remained at enmity with them.
Orthodox slavs have no soft wimpy place in their hearts for the Turk, but a hard, angry one just itching to bust chops!
James Davis says
The Russians have Putin, we have “Nut*tin”; our very own, Muslim, Marxist, “organ grinder
monkey”!
Sara says
I agree- watch these two poor girls get harassed by muslims https://youtu.be/3TG1QzN9IQs
Daniel Triplett says
Now that’s how it’s done.
Peter Charles says
Yes, indeed, this story made me smile.
mortimer says
Western elites don’t realize how bad the situation is because they only meet well-behaved educated Muslims who ‘play the game’.
The poor have to live with these aggressive savages. The wealthy can live in gated communities and pretend it isn’t a problem.
Herman says
I send out some emails to ask to sign “no hijab in RCMP”
By coincidence (??)the reply of two highly educated contacts told me no to send “such emails”….
Higher education apparently means no idea of what is going on in the world!!!
Mark says
The authority, media etc parts of our societies were targeted very early on in the infestations warfare planning.
Most of us that know what islam really is have become used to warfare lying directed directly to us on the internet and face to face, indeed its utterly sickening how low muslims will sink too in the enormaty of their lies to the most loathsome of levels (ie the filth of their mainstream books and their agenda for us that they try to cover up).
Muslims had their best liars, deceivers and manipulators targeting for example mp’s, councillers, media etc starting many years ago planting their seeds of deception, manipulation and control.
One can understand how many of our leaders etc were missled, though of course for example in the uk, marxist labour now is a willing partner with islamonazis to bring down their common enemy, democracy and anyone that stands for it – our very freedom.
Some or maybe many others initially deceived might have woken up but I suspect are too coward to do anything about it, maybe hoping someone else will.
gungadin says
Me too !! There are times that you just gotta luv those Ruskies !!
Mike Proulx says
Russian are men not like these sissies in EUROPE
Good to hear that some people still have values and will protect their women and children.
DP111 says
I read on BarenakedIslam, that these poor Afghan refugees now want to go back to Afghanistan.
gravenimage says
Hilarious, DP111. Would this be the case if they were *actual* refugees, and not just invading Dar-al-Harb?
Bob says
AMEN- shouted!
fudge says
Praise the Lord, When Jesus and his parents fled Israel, for their safty. they never raped the Egyptian women and children.
Zuleide Leonardo says
How proud I am of these Russian citizens! You go Russians!
particolor says
Certainly was good to see people with GUTS !! Couldn’t He find a BIGGER BAT ?
gungadin says
LUV your way of thinking !!
xxxcChurch100 says
Well , they were out clubbing ….
zitka says
Don’t forget dear American friends that one European where mens to, but thanks to their liberal and democrats goernments that era passed away
DFD says
zitka says : “.. once Europeans where men too, but thanks to their liberal and democrats governments that era passed away.”
Wrong, we still are. The resistance is growing and becoming more “intense”. But we have to be careful. Yes, we could do as the Russians did, no problem. Except, the police will attack and persecute us when we are seen to do so. Simultaneously, the police will protect and defend the Mujahiroun (invaders, colonists). So, don’t condemn us. Direct your condemnation at Merkel, Cameroun, Hollande and… yech! (Forcing back vomit)
Regards
DFD
Mark Swan says
DFD
All too soon things will change among Your great People…it is even now underway…
New Leadership…New Vision…is coming soon…the World will know the Germanic
People…The Works Of God’s Hands.
pongidae rex says
It is called civilization. You defend it or you lose it. Simple as that.
Don McKellar says
When the authorities aren’t doing their jobs and keeping out these “migrants” then a mob of furious citizens take action. This is both wrong and right all at the same time — and inevitable. But the authorities could circumvent the whole thing. All they have to do is stop moslem immigration. Nobody gets hurt and, frankly, the migrants will stop drowning themselves trying to get to Europe. Stopping moslem immigration is the right thing to do right now.
Daniel Triplett says
Russia has a 15% Muslim population, compared to just 1% in America.
So Russia has much bigger problems which simply halting immigration won’t stop.
Whether they be hijrah immigrants, or Russian citizens, Russian Muslims are on the verge of Stage 3 jihad.
But as we see from this article, Russian Muslims face a formidable foe standing between them and Russian Dar al-Islam.
Alexander says
I have no doubt that among those who were migrants were Russian Muslims. We have no problems with Muslims. We Muslims live as long as there is Russia. We have a problem only with visitors who believe that they can impose on us here in this way their moral values. But anyone who tries to force to impose their moral values – sooner or later receives an equivalent response to their attempts.
gravenimage says
Well, this post by Alexander is pretty incoherent–but he *appears* to be saying that Russian Muslims are not a problem there, and it is only foreign Muslims who are a threat, but this is absolutely false.
Muslims anywhere present a threat to the Infidel population.
Mazo says
Bashkir Muslims and Tatar Muslims (Russian citizens) don’t generally grope women like a pack of horny animals. I’ve never heard of Chechen or Dagestani gropers either although they are hot blooded.
Anyone groping is 100% a foreigner and not a citizen.
EddieA. says
“To: gravenimage, Please PLEASE do NOT call yourself “Infidel.” That is the Muslim term and we Western Civilized Nations should NOT adopt the Muslim term to self-describe.. Let me explain further.. A non-muslim in a Muslim only country may be called an “Infidel” by resident Muslims, BUT, when Muslims come to a non-Muslim country or a Christian Country, then it is the Muslim who becomes the “Infidel..” From NOW On let us all call the Muslim the Infidel because THAT is what they truly are.. = Invading Muslim Infidels.. Get it Straight Soldier..
gravenimage says
EddieA. wrote:
“To: gravenimage, Please PLEASE do NOT call yourself “Infidel.” That is the Muslim term and we Western Civilized Nations should NOT adopt the Muslim term to self-describe…
……………………….
Eddie, I am well aware of how Muslims use the term Infidel.
I use it facetiously myself–it is *not* an expression of self-hatred, nor is it intended to offend other Anti-Jihadists.
Az gal says
Yay Trump!
Daniel Triplett says
Absolutely. Trump is the right man for the job, at the right time.
Even though he’s mega-rich, he’s casual, speaking and thinking like the rest of us do. He’d fit right in on these JW threads.
Peggy says
Daniel Triplett says
February 8, 2016 at 11:43 am
@WC
What’s your problem with Peggy and Christianblood? I see nothing which suggests either are “hard Left sympathizers.”
===========================
Don’t hold your breath waiting for an answer. I say nothing different to what most people here say but WC seems to have a problem with my posts. He has been on my back for a long time and even used crude terms when speaking to me in the past but I have yet to understand why.
Daniel Triplett says
Hang in there Peggy. You’re doing a fine job, and I enjoy reading what you have to offer.
Alexander says
I have no doubt that among those who were migrants were Russian Muslims. We have no problems with Muslims. We Muslims live as long as there is Russia. We have a problem only with visitors who believe that they can impose on us here in this way their moral values. But anyone who tries to force to impose their moral values – sooner or later receives an equivalent response to their attempts.
quotha raven says
To Don McKeller, who sez, “Stopping moslem immigration is the right thing to do right now.”
Of course that is the right thing to do, but here in the USA this administration has aggressively pursued exactly the opposite tack. Since its inception, the Obama administration has been working steadily and by stealth toward completely unraveling and rendering ineffectual our immigration law, and has installed a new policy just a couple of days ago that effectively castrates the border patrol on our southern border.
Google News Brandon Judd+Border Patrol+immigration law+new policy.
Realistically, the border control agents has been ordered to stop identifying or tracking or vetting or surveilling or deporting illegal aliens. Which means Obama and his crew, aided by corrupt RINOs and Marxian Demoprats, have effectively eliminated our sovereignty as a nation and rendered our borders non-existent. They have encouraged an endless invasion of all kinds of people, including jihadis, who want to come here illegally. We have ceased to be a nation of law.
If you should come across my atrociously long post of a “timeline” yesterday on another thread (I apologize to all and sundry, and I promise never to do something like that again). That timeline reflects the findings of a senate investigation of this administration’s activities with regard to amnesty, immigration and deportations, I’m certain you will feel pretty devastated.
Welcome to Post-Constitutional USA, my friends.
Cheers! ,
quotha raven
Shmooviyet says
@Raven– Article, please? Love your posts and want to read more.
The devastation will be somewhat offset by the two ‘feel-good’ posts of yesterday, including this one.
TY!
quotha raven says
To Shmoovie, who asked for it…(I deserve a sound thumping for this one; I knew the “Timeline” was long, but I was truly horrified at how long it turned out to be. Sorry, everybody.) Here is where I put it, in cut and pasted bits: In reply to VCRAGAIN’s question to me: “So how do you reconcile your statements with the actual fact that there are more people being SENT BACK under Obama’s watch than ever before ?”
This was in the comments after the article in yesterday’s JW, “Obama to Christians: “If we’re serious about freedom of religion…an attack on one faith is an attack on all our faiths”.
I posted a copy of findings of the senate committee investigating immigration/border policies/law. It is in about a hundred cut and pasted bits. It’s chronological and recommended reading for anyone interested in the status of the sovereignty of the USA.
Cheers!
quotha raven
quotha raven says
To Shmoovie, who asked for it…(I deserve a sound thumping for this one; I knew the “Timeline” was long, but I was truly horrified at how long it turned out to be. Sorry, everybody.) Here is where I put it, in cut and pasted bits: In reply to VCRAGAIN’s question to me: “So how do you reconcile your statements with the actual fact that there are more people being SENT BACK under Obama’s watch than ever before ?”
This was in the comments after the article in yesterday’s JW, “Obama to Christians: “If we’re serious about freedom of religion…an attack on one faith is an attack on all our faiths”.
I posted a copy of findings of the senate committee investigating immigration/border policies/law. It is in about a hundred cut and pasted bits. It’s chronological and recommended reading for anyone interested in the status of the sovereignty of the USA.
Re: “The devastation will be somewhat offset by the two ‘feel-good’ posts of yesterday, including this one.” ))) Am delighted to cheer you up anytime I can!)))
Cheers!
quotha raven
Mark says
With obama ordering the destruction of any records of muslims linked to terrorism, one wonders how many of them are linked to him.
Pat says
Go Russians
Bridget Ames says
Well hopefully these are what will spread from Russia, instead of the errors of communism. Way to go men for defending your women and your streets!
Jay Boo says
A beat down is only treating the symptoms of Islam.
It would be better to treat the disease.
Whenever a Muslim man bows and prays to their 72 sex-slave virgins religion of hate they lose all their shame. If only the news media would expose Islam’s unending disgrace these Muslim men would have no where to hide in the first place.
Lookmann says
‘errors of communism’ ?
Entire communism is BS , the implementation of which claimed millions and millions of lives.
The world would have been a far better place today with those people.
Islam :- the hateful religion of chaos says
Go the Russians … they are doing what any self respecting male would do,, protecting their woman …
It’s a sad reflection European men haven’t the spine to take on these scum …
Hopefully males will learn from this, and the police will learn how to arrive at the scene very slowly , after all it was only a couple of punches ..
gravenimage says
Men are organizing to fight back in Germany, as well:
“FIGHTBACK: German Vigilante Groups Pledge To Protect Women In Migrant Sex Assault Cities”
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01/07/fightback-german-vigilante-groups-pledge-protect-women-migrant-sex-assault-cities/
Peggy says
We can only hope the Germans grow some and start whacking the Muslims.
Western men have been castrated by all the PC bull.
Time to grow some and start fighting back.
Christianblood says
Very well-said, Peggy!
Slava Rossii…
Western Canadian says
Another truly laughable comment from one of the hard lefts sympathizers on this board!! In case you have forgotten, the PC ‘bull’ that is spreading like a cancer thanks to left wing loons on campuses, left wing loons in the media, left wing loons in hollywood, left wings loons on wallstreet, as well as the left wing loons infesting the political system, your comment is truly a riot!!!
DFD says
Peggy and gravenimage
Thank you for keeping and providing perspective instead of condemnation. Here is what I said to ‘zitka’:
Wrong, we still are. The resistance is growing and becoming more “intense”. But we have to be careful. Yes, we could do as the Russians did, no problem. Except, the police will attack and persecute us when we are seen to do so. Simultaneously, the police will protect and defend the Mujahiroun (invaders, colonists). So, don’t condemn us. Direct your condemnation at Merkel, Cameroun, Hollande and… yech! (Forcing back vomit)
PS: Also true for the UK
gravenimage says
DFD, I hope we see patrols from these “vigilantes” soon.
If anyone has more information about what is happening on the ground, in Europe I love to see it. Apart from a few reports about the sex assaults on NYE itself, we’re not hearing much about this in the States.
Daniel Triplett says
@WC
What’s your problem with Peggy and Christianblood? I see nothing which suggests either are “hard Left sympathizers.”
You likely got off on bullying kids in grade school too.
I totally agree with both of their posts, and there’s nothing hard Left sympathizing about me. I’ve voted 100% Republican my entire life. Most US Military Officers do.
DFD says
gravenimage says: “… DFD, I hope we see patrols from these “vigilantes” soon. ….happening on the ground, in Europe I love to see it. Apart from a few reports about the sex assaults on NYE itself, we’re not hearing much about this in the States…”
Hi graven, I hope this finds you well.
How to answer your post, without saying what could be too much, or rather be misinterpreted, or too little? To describe this as tricky, is an understatement.
Let me commence by saying that it is good to know that you are interested in us. Thank you. Let us have a look at a part of what you said, namely: “we’re not hearing much about this in the States.” No, for sure. The US media is as manipulative as the EU media. For instance, you speak of ‘vigilantes’, the media would jump onto that immediately. Equating it straight away with ‘Nazis’. Definitely not, though, some of these are trying to ‘hitch a ride’, or even to hi-jack. Those who are not Nazis, (vast majority, more than 90%) but are tough minded and realize what the situation calls for, have to engage in careful speech. The media tears things apart, isolates expressions, or even words, just like they do with pictures. Essentially, there are no vigilantes, but resistance groups, protection groups, patriots, “Bürger-Wehren” that means “citizen-defenses”, that sort of thing. But no vigilantes.
A lot of the invader’s places, “refugee housing centres”, get burned down. Perhaps by Nazis, who knows. But far more are drowning. All the taps are left open, the water flows, the windows and doors are closed. Obviously, they forgot to turn off the taps, rather careless of them. Well, if that happens the building needs to be demolished, practically in all cases. There are of course physical confrontations, usually provoked or at least caused by them. Members of our civil rights groups getting involved, against their will of course, always point out that that had nothing to do with the civil rights group they are affiliated with. Should the need for such a statement arise in the first place. If that sounds as if it doesn’t originate from a democratic state – what can I say? It is very democratic as long as you are ‘political correct’. That means left of centre or far left. Any different opinion, and you are a Nazi, etc. As an illustration, consider what the Guardian said about president Victor Orban of Hungary: ‘A problem that needs to be solved’. He wasn’t a man, not a person either, and certainly not a democratically elected leader of a EU nation; no, ‘he is a problem requiring a solution’. I hope you getting this, a major UK newspaper called effectively for a ‘regime change’ in a democratic, small to medium sized nation of Europe. Now you know where we are. You over there seem to be getting closer to such state of affairs yourselves.
Now, a bit of info, some links. As an example, Soldiers of Odin (Helsinki), avowedly neither racist nor Nazi, and indeed, on the look-out for such elements wanting to infiltrate them. Yet, they are portrayed in the entire Euro media as Nazi thugs… Which also includes Russia Television (RT that is). Here’s an American article about them, you can also google them up. http://universalfreepress.com/2016/soldiers-of-odin-vow-to-keep/
There are of course other groups like these, facing the same problem.
PEGIDA, “Patriots Against the Islamization of Europe” (by now in Australia and Canada too), for instance is a grass roots movement that has grown, it started less than three years ago in Dresden. We are planning on a lot more. It’s members are of course described as ‘pin-striped-Nazis’ (many are professional people) and the wardens are busy keeping actual Nazis away. Funny thing is that the opposing lefties are using precisely the methods they are accusing PEGIDA of. And it takes discipline restraining yourself from lashing out against the lefties, their hate torn faces speak volumes. But one has to take it, swallow it; because the numbers have to grow. And street battles put off ordinary, average people – and they are the ones who matter!
Have a look, http://tinyurl.com/zmxzfdv
I replied earlier to a chap or a lady called wallace, that I will post specifically to you, Wallace, Panmelia and Stephanie, about grassroots work. You seem to be the right people, and hopefully others in our group here too. And we are under the firm impression that not only Europe needs more grassroots movements, but the US needs grassroots movements too, we are all outnumbered by the media – but that’s no reason to quit! On the contrary, that’s reason to work harder.
Grassroots are ultra important. More often than not, they teeter out. To be expected, but that is only a set back, no more. Consider that some of those forming a grassroots organization which then splits, form new ones upon a split, a hydra effect. Remember, grassroots groups gather, a social event, sort of family type thing, as long as the group is small. Communication and planning is always direct, no complicated structure, thus effective. (‘bit like a jihadi group, chuckling…) In the end, some of these will consolidate and confederate into larger and larger units. That’s all right and to be expected, they may even form different ones with differing political outlooks – democracy! Grassroots are ultra important, it means many of the members of the public (Res Publica!) are aware of the work, they do work themselves and are part of a structure. And that means a large part of the requirement for change has been met.
Take hope in Rome. If you look at two of its early phases, the initial kingdom and the early Republic, you will find that the people were facing practically insurmountable difficulties. The early kingdom, an oversized village, had very unfriendly and powerful neighbours with the Etruscans, plus Greeks and Phoenicians; even though they adopted many of their customs. The early Republic? A micro statelet, massive problems after the revolution, since there were many left who were unhappy, with the king disposed and a Republic declared. That means the aristocracy and their dependants. Plus the chaos that naturally followed the revolution… But the people did not quit, neither upon foundation of the kingdom nor upon the declaration of the Republic. And those were very, very rough times.
So the main thing is and will be: Be doggedly! After staggering comes walking, then bulldozing!
I don’t know when this will be ready, hopefully this week or next. If not, I trust and hope you wont object if I copy or cross post this (with minor mods) to Panmelia, Stephanie or Wallace, if or when I come across them. Unless you find it to be discourteous to you. I hope you wont, otherwise I have to rewrite a lot 🙂
Kind regards
gravenimage says
Thanks, DFD. I described these groups as “vigilantes”–putting the term in quotes, *only* because they had been so described in the press. I don’t regard them in this manner at all. I am *glad* to see that men in Dusseldorf and elsewhere are concerned with protecting victims of these Muslim rapugees.
I am also a supporter of PERGIDA. So far, everything I have seen about them is positive.
I am definitely concerned about what is going on in Europe. I have close relatives in Britain–my mother was English–but even if this were not the case Europe is America’s mother culture. We are all part of the West, and were any part of the West to fall we all would suffer.
Daniel Triplett says
It’s time we move beyond the Cold War animosity with Russia.
WWIII is in progress. We need to partner with Israel, UK, France, China, India, AND Russia to criminalize Islam Worldwide and win this war.
Here’s a 7 min video of Putin on: America, Russia, ISIS, ME crisis, and the future. A revealing look at this man. He is NOT a monster to be feared or confronted. Keep in mind, we will NEVER win the Counter-jihad (WWIII) without a Russian alliance:
https://youtu.be/OQuceU3x2Ww
Putin on Trump. 1 min video:
https://youtu.be/5xwuVjgMfU4
Long, in-depth “60 Minutes Show” interview with Putin that will really let you know who this man is:
https://youtu.be/Kl2JUxp81V8
Don McKellar says
I wouldn’t exactly jump on the Putin fan club wagon. He is a dictator. However, he is a dictator that America could and should be working with pragmatically and with prudence. Certainly the Obama regime is so incompetent in foreign affairs, and Obama so hopelessly outmatched, that this isn’t going to happen any time before a new Republican presidency. He and Trump would make for a terrific working relationship, while Trump’s policies crush China’s economy and rebuild America’s and he and Putin send Jihadis scurrying like cockroaches — those few who survive extermination — and bring the Saudis to the subservient level they should always be at.
Daniel Triplett says
I spoke nothing of starting a “Putin fan club bandwagon.”
I’m just saying this is a new day, we face a common foe, it’s time to end the antagonizing and animosity, and Putin need not be feared or confronted by us. He seeks no confrontation with America, as he clearly explains in the video.
The Counter-jihad will fail without his alliance. That’s a fact.
But we’re basically saying the same thing and in agreement Don.
Peggy says
Daniel Triplett says
February 9, 2016 at 11:40 pm
Hang in there Peggy. You’re doing a fine job, and I enjoy reading what you have to offer.
===========================
Thank you for your kind words.
Peggy says
Daniel, US presidents have been dictators but they are better at hiding it. Obama is worse than Putin. He is selling out his country and there is nothing Americans can do about it. What exactly makes Putin worse?
Think about it for a bit.
Putin was pronounced a dictator by the US. Does that make him so? If not than what does he do that is worse than Obama?
You can’t stop Obama any more than you can stop Putin.
Peggy says
Sorry that was for Don not Daniel.
Christianblood says
Peggy says
“…Putin was pronounced a dictator by the US. Does that make him so?…”
That is right Peggy…and many Westerners are very, very jealous of President Putin because they know very well deep down the fact that Putin is clean from the politically-correctness SHIT that is destroying the West.
gravenimage says
“…Putin was pronounced a dictator by the US. Does that make him so?…”
………………………….
Putin has been in power since 1999. His switching between president and prime minister fools no one, since whatever position is currently held by Putin is deemed the most powerful.
Nobody place holder Dmitry Medvedev swaps off with him to make things look vaguely more plausible.
Certainly, Vladimir Putin is less of dictator than, say, Joseph Stalin.
Just depends how low your standards are.
Peggy says
Graven says:
Certainly, Vladimir Putin is less of dictator than, say, Joseph Stalin.
Just depends how low your standards are.
=================
I was comparing Putin to Obama.
What makes Putin more of a dictator than Obama? We in the west only have an illusion of democracy. We can decide which toothpaste to use but anything important is not allowed.
Can we decide to stop Muslim immigration? Can we decide to stop Halal tax? Can we decide that our media will have to tell the truth? What exactly are we free to decide?
So when comparing Russia to US, Canada or Australia I see no difference at all except that Russia has a president who will not betray his country but the west does.
I don’t care if Putin keep getting elected as PM or President over and over again. His people are electing him but I care a lot when my PM or US president betrays me.
Daniel Triplett says
@Peggy
My goodness, those are all excellent points you make.
People can say what they want about Putin. But the man is a strong leader, he loves his country, and he does what’s best for Russia. Which is far more than we can say about the treasonous POS know-nothing fool that know-nothing Americans put into our White
House, twice.
Obama isn’t half the man Putin is. I don’t care how he gets elected either. Nothing says the Russians must elect their leaders as we elect ours. They’re much happier with the results anyway. There’s a reason 85% of Russians love him.
EyamhooEyam says
So Putin is a dictator although elected to his office by popular vote? And by your definition, Obama is also a dictator, exerting his will on the American people over the wishes of the majority through illegal executive orders and actions.
Sorry, I see little difference between the two except one has “balls” and the other’s never dropped.
Baucent says
Agreed. Putin may be an unsavory character but the Russians did elect him and he still enjoys wide popular support. Some Western Politicians seem to be irritated by that. But rather than trying to isolate Russia the West should be building bridges as both face a common enemy; Islam.
Peggy says
One is a traitor and determined to hand his country over to the enemy while the other is a patriot.
I know which one I admire more.
gravenimage says
Unfortunately, Daniel, Putin has done little to oppose the Jihad threatening Russia–he would rather threaten his democratic neighbors.
Russia under Putin has allowed Chechnya to become a Shari’ah state, and they are actively enabling a nuclear Iran.
While I’m very glad to see resistance to Muslim rapefugees from Russian men here, the frequent claim that Russia is overall staunchly opposing Jihad does not bear even casual scrutiny.
Daniel Triplett says
@gravenimage
I respectfully agree with some, but not all.
There are quite a few examples where Putin has been quite tough in dealing with Muslim terrorists, such as the 2002 Nord-Ost Siege, when Muslims seized the Dubrovka Theater in Moscow. Putin’s boys stormed the place with such ruthlessness, they not only killed 40 Muslim militants, but 130 hostages were killed as well:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis
Then there was the 2004 Beslan Massacre where 76, mostly Chechen, Muslims took 1128 schoolchildren hostage for 4 days. The Russian military finally had enough of their crap, and made a full-on assault of the school, during which 385 were killed, including most of the Muslims, and at least 55 Russian Special Forces.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_siege
There are other examples too. The point is, Putin doesn’t mess around when it comes to dispatching Muslim terrorists.
Regarding Chechnya, 94% of its 1.4 Million population is Muslim. So for Putin to prevent Sharia there would be difficult.
And 15% of Russia proper is Muslim as well. Just 1% of Americans are Muslim. So Putin’s neighborhood looks much different than ours. That doesn’t mean he likes Muslims, nor does it mean he can’t be tough on Islam.
The Russian relationship with Persia/Iran dates back to 1521, and is indeed disturbing. Perhaps the nature of their current relationship is due in part though to the shared animosity they both feel from the West.
This is where the Counter-jihad Strategy I keep proposing comes in.
I believe the Counter-jihad will fail without a Russian alliance. After closely watching all the videos I linked above, I don’t think Putin is hostile to the US, nor do I believe he shares the somewhat unilateral suspicion and animosity that Americans feel toward Russia.
What America is missing is a President who shares my Worldview, if I may be so humble. We need someone who can put the past behind us and actually befriend Putin and the Russians, convincing them that WE can be a trustworthy and reliable partner from now on. If we can do that, then, like a mistress, maybe we could pull Putin away from Iran, or even better, convince him to divorce the Ayatollah altogether.
Look, we really have no other choice. As in the first two World Wars, we must have Russian cooperation in order to win WWIII. As I describe in my essay, “Total War: Extinguishing Islam from Earth,” which I broadcast far and wide, as an incentive for Russia to help us destroy Iranian leadership and criminalize Islam Worldwide, we should let Putin annex Iran and its resources for his Motherland.
Surely, Putin’s desire to add that strategic, warm water access, oil rich territory for the Russian Empire far exceeds any superficial loyalty he may feel toward the Ayatollah. And of course it’s much better for us to have Russia control the Iranian territory rather than a bunch of crazy Muslims bent on killing us.
Like Netanyahu, Putin has no love or respect for Islam. However, both of those leaders are wise enough to know they can’t take on 1.6 Billion Muslims by themselves. So they play a very careful dance in a very dangerous neighborhood.
But, if we could ally with Israel, UK, France, China, India, and Russia, and use our collective nuclear arsenals as a big stick, then we would all have the confidence to criminalize Islam Worldwide, extinguishing the Islamic threat forever.
This takes leadership, an Alliance of non-Muslim nuclear powers, and a strong stomach. But this can be done, as I describe in my essay, and will further articulate in a book I’m writing.
Peggy says
That is exactly what needs to happen.
For some reason the US hates Russia and will never allow Americans to see them as anything but an enemy. Too many people rely on MSN and will never know that Russia is not their enemy but their own government is because their governments i controlled by evil.
Miao Zedong says
@Peggy: Those you hate Russians most seem to fuel their hatred from the misconception that they are atheists. Communism is dead and that Russia will probably never be a democray in the Western sense is a given. Thinking you can “reengineer” societies is the common misconception among Sovjets and US as well and kind of hubris. But then again why should I be surprised if many people think they can educate away evolution, including your “gender”.
Magnus Thorstein says
Hey Daniel. Where can I read your essay. Sounds very interesting.
Western Canadian says
Daniel Triplett says
February 6, 2016 at 10:40 pm
” As in the first two World Wars, we must have Russian cooperation in order to win WWIII”
That has got to be the most breathtakingly stupid comment, anyone has ever made on the second world war…..
If hitler and stalin were not holding hands while STARTING THE BLOODY WAR, would there have even been a second world war??
You obviously are not capable of making honest or rational statements.
Keys says
Maj. Triplett-
From what I have read of your plan, it does not take into account the internal opposition in the USA you’d run into. You’d have lots of Major Hasans in the military and in the government.
And any coup would lead to a civil war with sides not clearly identified in blue and gray.
And if you were in combat, you know that no plan is perfect, and things will go wrong. Many Americans would die on the home front, don’t you think?
gravenimage says
Daniel Triplett wrote:
@gravenimage
I respectfully agree with some, but not all.
There are quite a few examples where Putin has been quite tough in dealing with Muslim terrorists, such as the 2002 Nord-Ost Siege, when Muslims seized the Dubrovka Theater in Moscow. Putin’s boys stormed the place with such ruthlessness, they not only killed 40 Muslim militants, but 130 hostages were killed as well
……………………………….
I’m not sure I’d be so keen on trumpeting the killing of hostages, Daniel–these are the people authorities were supposed *to be saving*.
Certainly, Putin has been tough on Jihadists periodically, and I have applauded him when he has been.
More:
Regarding Chechnya, 94% of its 1.4 Million population is Muslim. So for Putin to prevent Sharia there would be difficult.
……………………………….
There was no official Shari’ah law there before Putin installed Ramzan Kadyrov. Kadyrov was *himself* a Chechen Jihadist.
Kadyrov was *never* anything less than vocal about his support of Shari’ah law.
More:
And 15% of Russia proper is Muslim as well. Just 1% of Americans are Muslim. So Putin’s neighborhood looks much different than ours. That doesn’t mean he likes Muslims, nor does it mean he can’t be tough on Islam.
……………………………….
This is true–but allowing a Jihad state to impose Shari’ah law–to, in fact, have *installed* the enforcer who would do so–is pretty questionable at best.
I *do not* believe this will make Russia safer in the long run.
More:
The Russian relationship with Persia/Iran dates back to 1521, and is indeed disturbing. Perhaps the nature of their current relationship is due in part though to the shared animosity they both feel from the West.
……………………………….
Uh huh…it must just be because the mean ol’ West says harsh things about assassinating journalists and stoning women to death.
What can they possibly do but partner up? sarc/off
More:
This is where the Counter-jihad Strategy I keep proposing comes in.
I believe the Counter-jihad will fail without a Russian alliance.
What America is missing is a President who shares my Worldview, if I may be so humble. We need someone who can put the past behind us and actually befriend Putin and the Russians, convincing them that WE can be a trustworthy and reliable partner from now on. If we can do that, then, like a mistress, maybe we could pull Putin away from Iran, or even better, convince him to divorce the Ayatollah altogether.
Look, we really have no other choice. As in the first two World Wars, we must have Russian cooperation in order to win WWIII…
……………………………….
Describing your vision for the free West as authoritarian Russia’s “mistress” is rather disturbing, to put it mildly.
It may be necessary for the West to partner with Russia against Islam, as we did against the Fascists–although as Western Canadian ably notes, the Soviet alliance with Nazi Germany did a great deal to *strengthen* Hitler, much as Russia is strengthening Iran now.
My main issue is with those few Anti-Jihadists who are eager to throw out our hard won democratic freedoms in the mistaken belief that authoritarianism is better at fighting Islam.
I’m afraid this simply is not borne out.
Daniel Triplett says
@Magnus Thorstein
Thanks for the support.
You can read it at the following link. It’s a 15 minute read right now, though I keep adding to it. I try to keep it short so people will read it, but I have much more to say. That’s why I’m just going to expand it into a book.
I consider this essay more of an abstract for the book I’m writing.
There are a few more things I want to add to the essay, like sections on Islamic Abrogation, all the forms of Islamic deception, and more reasons Containment will never work. So I was going to suggest waiting for a few days until I add that, however, you’re familiar with those things anyway, so you wouldn’t be missing anything you don’t already know by reading it now. But if you wait about five days, it will be better.
By the way, if you like it, feel free to share it. You can use the words as your own. Plagiarize away. I require no credit. I just want us to win the war.
If you have any suggestions or critiques about it, please let me know. I’m always looking for ways to improve the message.
BTW, every time I poll test this on Twitter, it always gets an 80 – 90% approval rating across the entire demographic Twitter spectrum. Those who disapprove are almost always Left wingers or Muslim.
https://medium.com/@dantriplett/islamic-jihad-is-total-war-for-all-marbles-6c858098b76e#.pgny6kf6v
Thanks Magnus. Stay strong Brother.
Daniel Triplett says
@WC
”As in the first two World Wars, we must have Russian cooperation in order to win WWIII”
This is a true statement. If Russia had joined the Axis, as the Nazis wanted them to, we couldn’t have won the War.
The true reasons for the failure of the Tripartite negotiations between the Soviet Union, UK, and France, yielding instead to the Soviet – German rapprochement are still a matter of scholarly debate. But apparently you consider yourself an expert on the matter, as I see with just about every other post with which you patronize everyone here at JW.
Fortunately for the West, not only were both Stalin and Hitler equally diabolical, they were just as untrustworthy and disloyal to their own allies as well.
So the collapse of the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact was a Godsend for the Western Allies, without which our victory was most certainly uncertain.
So the bottom line is, regardless of the reasons the War started, and regardless of the reasons for the rapprochement and generation/failure of the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact, Stalin’s divorce from Hitler, switching to our side instead, is what saved the War for us.
Of course, if the European war had lasted until Trinity, on 16JUL1945, we could have won the entire European war all by ourselves, even without the alliance with UK and France.
***************************
I don’t know how you speak with other Canadians, but this is how American gentlemen speak with one another.
I know it’s cold in Canada, and the only thing to do up there is drink. So I don’t know if you’re drunk, or you’re just an asshole, or both.
But you won’t be speaking to me with such unnecessary and condescending sarcasm and contempt anymore if you wish for me to speak to you politely from now on.
I’ve had enough of your horseshit, which has no place in civil discourse among gentlemen. Especially when discussing such subjects as important as the existential threat to Civilization, and how best to confront it.
Daniel Triplett says
@Keys
Thanks for pointing that out. That essay is a work in progress, so I’ll go back and include the issues you mentioned.
Yes, as a six-year combat vet, I certainly know missions seldom go as planned. The more than 6500 US KIAs in the Counter-jihad know that principle well too.
Air Force pilots do more than just fly airplanes, kill people, and blow things up. Field Grade Officers will have spent at least two years in school at the Air Universities studying subjects such as communication skills, military customs and courtesies, military history, leadership, field exercises, drill and ceremonies, small arms training, and combat strategy. This is in addition to the two years of schooling learning to fly warplanes.
We spend a whole lot of time learning about the history of warfare and lessons learned; capitalizing on strategies that worked throughout the millennia, and rejecting ideas that don’t. We study conventional, asymmetric, and nuclear warfare at great length. The same basic strategies that win wars have remained the same throughout human history. The only thing that’s changed is the availability and effectiveness of the weapons at our disposal.
As a Commissioned Officer and war vet myself, maybe that makes me an expert, or maybe it doesn’t. But I would certainly consider the Officers who wrote the curriculum, and those who stand at the front of the room lecturing us as experts. If they aren’t, who is? Wouldn’t you hope our Military Officers know what they’re doing, and know how to win wars?
I didn’t just pull my strategy out of my ass. It’s a product of my military education, my war experiences, over 1500 Intel briefings, and over two decades of careful thought.
I see no other method to win this War other than the strategy which I describe. The sooner we all reach the same conclusion, the better.
You may notice that while millions of Kaffir are beginning to understand the cold, hard truth about Islam, very very few people are willing to publicly articulate a solution. That’s because most people don’t have any idea how to win this War. This is why I’m going to such great lengths to spread the message about how to do it.
The reason I can do this, and servicemen still wearing the uniform cannot, is because I’ve separated from active duty military, I’m now in the Inactive Ready Reserve, and am now employed as a union 747 pilot with a major US airline. But the other senior officers in the military know the same thing I do. They just never speak publicly about it because they’re still beholden to an elected official, and they must do as they’re told if they want to keep their jobs.
Of the 1.6 Billion Muslims Worldwide, 7 Million of them live right here among us in the United States. You are absolutely correct. This is a very serious problem, with Muslims intertwined in just about every segment of our society, including our military.
What we are facing is the biggest existential threat ever to face mankind. To eliminate this threat will take an unprecedented solution on a Biblical scale, the likes of which the World has never seen.
We’re obviously not going to use nuclear weapons within our own country. So yes, unless our governments take a very aggressive stance in legislating and enforcing Islam as a Capital Felony, there will be some serious civil and guerilla warfare within our own borders. We’ll need the National Guard and all police forces to focus on nothing but this and the safety of our citizens, forgetting about other issues such as drug crimes, theft, white-collar crime, speeding tickets, etc, until the Islamic threat is eliminated.
This is Total War across the entire globe, including within our own countries. We’ve done it to our own people before. Just ask General Sherman about his March to the Sea.
Believe it or not, Saudi Arabia and other such Muslim sovereignties have extremely low crime rates; the lowest in the World. That’s because they have swift and severe public punishment for their criminal codes. I’m not suggesting we enact Saudi Arabian criminal code, I’m just saying that swift and severe penalties beget very low resistance from the people.
As you know, Islam is a criminal enterprise, with Sedition and Conspiracy to Murder right at the top of the list. A list including scores of other crimes. Those are very serious felonies. All that’s required is an honest and long overdue reclassification of Islam from “The Religion of Peace,” to Capital Felony, then impose capital punishment on those “practicing or promoting” Islam.
We must force Taqiyya/Kitman/Tawriya/Muruna-proof Apostasy on Muslims within our own borders. We must execute those who resist, swiftly and publicly. Remaining American Muslims would get on board with the program really quick.
Yes, a number of innocent Americans will likely die at the hands of Muslim resistance. But many more will die later if we do nothing. We can’t pass this mess off to our children. This is our problem, and it’s our responsibility to eliminate it.
Are these drastic measures? Perhaps. But these are drastic times. And with Iran just moments away from nukes, we don’t have time to screw around with anything less.
Daniel Triplett says
@gravenimage
I see you’re making me put a bit more effort into this tonight. Alright, you’re worth it.
“I’m not sure I’d be so keen on trumpeting the killing of hostages, Daniel–these are the people authorities were supposed *to be saving*.”
Come on now, I’m not ‘trumpeting’ the killing of 130 hostages. I’m simply illustrating that Putin is serious about killing jihadists, and he’s realistic about war. Perhaps you regard the Nord-Ost Siege as a *criminal* operation, rather than a war engagement? Perhaps Putin rightly regards it as the latter.
Collateral damage and civilian casualties are an inevitable aspect of war, notwithstanding what Obama, whose never worn our uniform, wants Americans to believe.
Don’t forget, before the first American set foot on the Normandy beaches on D-Day, Americans killed 25,000 friendly French civilians during the USAAF aerial bombardment and USN artillery shelling to soften Nazi defensive positions prior to the amphibious assault. That’s right, WE killed 25,000 friendly French civilians in a matter of a few hours, and we knew we were doing it.
But enormous efforts were given toward deceiving the Germans about the date/time/location of Operation Overlord. So to have given the French a ‘heads-up’ warning would’ve compromised the entire operation.
That’s the cost of winning war.
—————————–
“There was no official Shari’ah law there [in Chechnya] before Putin installed Ramzan Kadyrov. Kadyrov was *himself* a Chechen Jihadist.
Kadyrov was *never* anything less than vocal about his support of Shari’ah law.”
If you go looking for a date at a nightclub full of nothing but dogs, you’ll have no choice but to go home with a dog.
Russia already had the painful experience of two wars with Chechen Separatists. They also learned in Afghanistan that installing a non-Muslim government in a nearly 100% Muslim territory is a deadly pipe dream.
So, in 94% Muslim Chechnya, what else could Putin do besides put a Muslim in charge who at least pretended to show strong loyalty toward him and Moscow? Kadyrov was that man. Sure, he’s a thug, as almost all Muslims are thugs, but he speaks of Putin like he’s the Messiah, and Kadyrov’s current posture is to be ruthless in stomping out any Separatists. And that’s really the best that Putin could possibly hope for in Chechnya.
Putin was a big supporter of the Moscow-like Chechen Constitution established in 2003. But alas, his enthusiasm was doomed to wane, because just as you can’t take the stink out of a turd, you can’t take the Sharia out of a Muslim either.
So, in 2006, the year before Putin *agreed* to allow Kadyrov to become President, Kadyrov began making some noise about establishing Sharia. And he did it in the usual fashion of a few laws at first, followed by the full monte later.
I have experience in the Afghanistan War. This would be like the United States trying to install a non-Muslim government in Afghanistan and expecting it to work.
In his Muslim core, is Hamid Karzai really that much different than Kadyrov?
We’ve been occupying Afghanistan for over 14 years, and it’s really no different nor more evolved than the day US Soldiers first set foot there. Whether you want to call Afghanistan Sharia or not, it’s 99% Muslim, and it’s still a very dangerous shithole. Believe me, it’s no place for you to go honeymoon.
Take a look at this short video to see what still happens in Kabul on a daily basis. Mind you, US Forces are occupying this city while this is happening:
https://youtu.be/uVecWtYV3VU
So if this kind of shit is happening in Afghanistan after our 14-year occupation, how can you expect Putin to make Chechnya look and behave like Moscow?
—————————————
“This is true–but allowing a Jihad state to impose Shari’ah law–to, in fact, have *installed* the enforcer who would do so–is pretty questionable at best.
I *do not* believe this will make Russia safer in the long run.”
See what I just wrote.
—————————————
“Uh huh…it must just be because the mean ol’ West says harsh things about assassinating journalists and stoning women to death.
What can they possibly do but partner up? sarc/off”
All the way back to Sun Tzu, wise warfighters make an effort to understand the motives of the other side. This helps us develop counter-strategy.
That neither means we agree, nor does it mean we empathize with their position.
The fact is, America does harbor animosity and suspicion toward Russia and Iran, and they both feel it.
Toward Iran we are right. But toward Russia we are wrong.
—————————————-
“Describing your vision for the free West as authoritarian Russia’s “mistress” is rather disturbing, to put it mildly.”
I clearly chose a poor metaphor for you. I have no interest in America becoming Russia’s “bitch.”
Nor do I believe it necessary for us to become like Russia in order to partner with Russia to defeat our common foe.
Just as it was unnecessary for us to become like UK, France, or the Soviets in order for our grandparents to defeat their common foe.
—————————————-
“My main issue is with those few Anti-Jihadists who are eager to throw out our hard won democratic freedoms in the mistaken belief that authoritarianism is better at fighting Islam.”
Then you need not take issue with me.
You need not take issue with Peggy or Christianblood either, as far as I’m concerned.
It’s late now. I’ll have to deal with DFD’s lengthy but sincere post later.
Western Canadian says
Rather a late reply to @triplett
”
in the first two World Wars, we must have Russian cooperation in order to win WWIII”
That has got to be the most breathtakingly stupid comment, anyone has ever made on the second world war…..
If hitler and stalin were not holding hands while STARTING THE BLOODY WAR, would there have even been a second world war??”
I have been on this board for several years, am not in any way a troll, nor an asshole. Your requirement that other live up to standards of civility is fine with me…. pity you don’t manage it very well yourself. You suggest that Hitler WANTED the Russians to join the axis…. They had already formed an alliance with them, prior to Hitlers betrayal of them, for which we can all be very thankful. I have contempt for Peggy and CB, as they praise everything russian (Peggy sounding like she is reading press releases from Stalin, a personal hero of hers she is so forgiving of his ‘excesses’), and both bash the west constantly: Our military is corrupt, we are all pussies, we have no morals, PC is killing us (pointing out that PC began as a tool by the left to shutdown debate, is evidently not very PC), etc. It is off topic, off base, needlessly insulting, and merely false. If you ever swing by this way again, feel free to explain how hitler WANTED the russians as allies, when he had them as such, then betrayed them. And if you had read my posts on this thread, you would realize you are more than just a little off base with your attacks on me. But you would never admit it.
Christianblood says
gravenimage
You WRONG again Graven. Chechnia does not follow Sharee’a like your Saudi Arabian allies do. There are churches in Chechnya but not a single church can be found in Saudi Arabia, America’s ally. And when it comes being an a true ally of the muslim jihadists, there is no country that does this better than America. America and the Western world have turned their backs on Christianity and replaced it with destructive atheistic doctrines of postmodern moral relativism while they are also hugely backing secular moral relativist liberalism worldwide and are enabling and arming the genocidal islamic jihadists that are massacring Christians and other minorities across the M.E. and beyond.
For example, three decades ago, in Afghanistan, America supported and armed the Taliban, Bin-Laden and Alqa’ida and paid them fight against Russia. In the Balkans, America bombed Christian Serbia and formed two islamic states (Bosnia & Kosovo) in the heart of Europe. In Libya, America supported and fought on the side of the barbaric islamic jihadists who deposed Qaddafi. In Egypt, America backed Muslim Brotherhood and turned their backs on Gen. Mubarak, their long time ally. In Syria, America is currently allied with the evil Saudi Arabia, with the genocidal Turks and with other barbaric Arab states that are backing ISIS, the ‘free Syrian army’ jihadists, Alnusra jihadists and many other barbaric jihadists that are fighting Assad who is a secular leader who is protecting Christians and other minorities in Syria. Actually, several decades ago, US Government Planned And Funded A Failed Muslim Conquest Of Russia As Far Back As The 1950s. Read: http://www.infowars.com/did-you-know-the-cia-planned-a-muslim-invasion-of-russia-2/
Western Canadian says
You are known far and wide as not to be trusted in your comments, and this one about 70% proves it…..
Ex-muslim says
Western Canadian
Christianblood is RIGHT and you are weong.
gravenimage says
Christianblood wrote:
gravenimage
You WRONG again Graven. Chechnia does not follow Sharee’a like your Saudi Arabian allies do. There are churches in Chechnya but not a single church can be found in Saudi Arabia…
………………………….
That’s the best you can come up with–that Chechnya under Putin-installed Kadyrov is not quite as bad as Saudi Arabia? On the other hand, he’s only been at this for seven years. Give him time…
There is only a single remaining church in Grozny. The truth is that there is little left of the Orthodox Church establishment in Chechnya. and most of Chechnya’s surviving ethnic Russian Christian minority fled in the early 1990s.
Western Anti-Jihadists here have no problem noting when the West has done something clueless and wound up enabling Jihad or Shari’ah.
But supporters of Putin are unable to utter a single word of criticism for their idol, even when he is actively supporting Jihadists. I suppose since Putin has his critics *assassinated*, this should not much surprise–but it means we are not apt to join the mindless adulation.
More:
America and the Western world have turned their backs on Christianity and replaced it with destructive atheistic doctrines of postmodern moral relativism while they are also hugely backing secular moral relativist liberalism…
………………………….
And to counter this supposed problem you adore a former high-ranking member of the atheist Communist Soviet Union’s KGB…OK…
The fact is that “Christianblood” has many times posited Russia as the savior of threatened Christians, despite the fact that they have only allowed *two*–yes, you read that figure right–Syrian refugees, of unknown creed, asylum there.
The fact is that all of Dar-al-Harb has been quite uneven at best in opposing Jihad.
But positing unfree Russia as a model for us to follow, which in addition to concerning issues as invading their democratic neighbors and murdering journalists has a *very* mixed record on actually opposing Jihad, is questionable at best.
Ex-muslim wrote:
Western Canadian
Christianblood is RIGHT and you are weong (sic)
………………………….
Duly noted…
gravenimage says
Good posts above, Western Canadian.
Peggy says
My main issue is with those few Anti-Jihadists who are eager to throw out our hard won democratic freedoms in the mistaken belief that authoritarianism is better at fighting Islam.
I’m afraid this simply is not borne out.
===============================
I don’t think that you understand what is being said. I think that we don’t need to become like Russia to not see Russia as an enemy. Why can’t we just live the way we want to live and not worry about how Russian’s live. They are not trying to change our society so why should we care how they choose to live?
They are not the threat to the world. They are part of the solution. Unless we have lived in today’s Russia we can’t dump on them. We can only go by what our media tells us and we all know how reliable they are. If Putin was such a tyrant I really don’t think he would be popular at home and he is.
So who cares what Russians decide for themselves we need to respect that as they respect what we have decided for ourselves. I don’t see them threatening the west like the west threatens Russia by way of sucking up all their neighbours into NATO.
So why do we waste so much time here condemning how other people live. Our way is not the only way.
Adrian says
Daniel Triplett, you reduce all this to mere “Cold War animosity”???
Russia is a police state… Putin is the mafioso head of a kleptocracy that bled its country dry, and that hesitated at nothing to kill critical journalists and muzzle any opposition…
Russia has the blood of thousands on its hands in invasions of Georgia and Ukraine, not to mention the millions displaced, and whole countrysides and cities demolished…
what are you smoking?
Daniel Triplett says
@Adrian
If you want me to discuss this with you, cut the sarcasm and contempt, and show some class. Read some gravenimage to see how that’s done.
Speaking of gravenimage, you can read the post above I just wrote to her.
I never said Putin is a model human being for us all to worship. And frankly, I don’t give a damn what he does in his own neighborhood, excepting NATO & American Allies. I’m beginning to not care what he could do to Turkey with its Caliphate aspirations either. In 10 years time, the boundaries on that side of the planet will be dramatically redrawn anyway.
But I do care about winning the Counter-jihad, also known as WWIII. And I know that Putin and Russia are indispensable to us if we are serious about winning this War. Have you forgotten about WWII? A reminder: We allied with Stalin to defeat the Nazis. Stalin is arguably the most evil man who ever lived, murdering 20,000,000 of his OWN PEOPLE alone. If you’d put Vladimir Putin in the same category as Josef Stalin, then YOU are the one smoking dope Sir.
“Total War: Extinguishing Islam from Earth” @dantriplett
https://medium.com/@dantriplett/islamic-jihad-is-total-war-for-all-marbles-6c858098b76e
If you have a better strategy to win this War, let’s hear it.
Western Canadian says
Daniel Triplett says
February 6, 2016 at 11:46 pm
@Adrian
If you want me to discuss this with you, cut the sarcasm and contempt, and show some class. Read some gravenimage to see how that’s done.
========================================
In light of the drivel you have posted, I would suggest you clean up your own act before commenting on others.
Keys says
I bet the Mullahs of Iran and Saudi Arabia have a plan very similar to yours.
Daniel Triplett says
@WC
I’ll mostly give you a pass on this one this time, since you wrote it before I called you out above.
But this is just one more example of you trolling the Jihad Watch threads, with nothing but arrogant put-downs, criticism, sarcasm, and contempt toward Counter-jihadists and War Veterans who do bring ideas to the table, or who’ve actually risked their lives for Freedom.
Get some class Man.
I bring really big, different ideas and strategies to the public sphere. Big ideas ought be able to withstand criticism and scrutiny. That’s fine. I get it, and welcome the analysis.
But what you’re doing is not only hateful and annoying, it’s counterproductive to our collective will and objective in eliminating the Islamic ideology.
Regurgitating the obvious over and over, posting to us all how terrible Islam is, isn’t advancing our cause. You’re preaching to the choir here.
Really, if all you have to offer is sarcasm and contempt toward us, with no solutions to propose whatsoever, then do everyone a favor and STFU. We’ll all be better served.
Daniel Triplett says
@Keys
l bet they do to.
Whoever activates the plan first wins.
gravenimage says
Daniel, Western Canadian is *not* a troll. He is one of the staunchest Anti-Jihadists here. If you disagree with him, fine–but to characterize him as a troll is utterly wrong.
Daniel Triplett says
@gravenimage
“Daniel, Western Canadian is *not* a troll. He is one of the staunchest Anti-Jihadists here. If you disagree with him, fine–but to characterize him as a troll is utterly wrong.”
Then you sure see something that I don’t. Because I see him behaving like nothing but a condescending asshole throughout this entire thread.
Peggy says
What do you think the US is? It’s controlled by a few evil greedy monsters who have your government and armed forces in their pocket.
Do you really think you have any say in what happens? Do you think you have any privacy? What are you smoking?
Western Canadian says
Your comment about the armed forces, is crap. As for the rest of your post, you are rather close to the truth, but neglected to mention that the extreme rot found in all aspects of America today, is due to the stealth infestation of all aspects of America (and most of the rest of the west) by hard left loons…. Soros springs to mind, and the donations from wall street are almost entirely to left wing groups, causes and politicians (obama being the most often bought and paid for). Hollywood somehow finds funding to produce low grade slop that bashes America and glorifies the left, but they bomb, as they should…. How do they manage to fund such drivel, for so many years, and lose money while doing so? The hard left paying for propaganda, again.
Ex-muslim says
Western Canadian:
As most Canadians are you are nothing but a piece of CRAP!
Miao Zedong says
@Adrian
“Russia is a police state”
—
So what ?
Just mind your own business and start cleaing your mess AT HOME. Chile has been a dictatorhip for instance but relatively free from corruption. A prefer an honest police state anytime to a “free” but utterly corrupt “democracy” that pays only lip service to the individuals democratic participation and empowerment. I’m convinced that the transition from a properly managed dictatorship/monarchy to a democracy but never from a corrupted state. And corrupted states are always detrimenteal to the idea of democracy. The West is corrupt to its bones (oil money, NGO, supra-national undemocratic projects as the EU, UN) where a few select get an unearned influence.
I don’t have to look further than Germany or the UK to see the police state rising.
Keys says
Miao-
You said you’d prefer a police state….etc.
Isn’t that exactly what Islam wants, but substitute “Sharia” for police.
Is not that the claim of Islam? Peace only through a Sharia (God’s Law) government? Not many riots in Iran or Saudi Arabia.
DFD says
Miao Zedong says: “…I don’t have to look further than Germany or the UK to see the police state rising.”
What do you mean by ‘rising’? You must be either very patient or extremely well meaning. 🙂
I am Anglo-German, it has risen. However, police moral is low in both nations…
Miao Zedong says
@DFD: I’m not well meaning. Germany is very close to a police state in practice and the almost dictatorical top down executive orders that even affect neighbouring states and in some cases are clearly against laws, treaties and agreemtents.
Still, I don’t think that the country is lost and that they might avert institutionalizing what has been practiced in almost police state fashion by no longer electing the traditional parties. It doesn’t even matter where they stand, as long the traditional socialist AND conservative parties get dumped for good.
It’s almost a tragedy to observe how patiently the masses endure.
gravenimage says
Miao Zedong wrote, quoting Adrian:
“Russia is a police state”
—
So what ?
Just mind your own business and start cleaing your mess AT HOME. Chile has been a dictatorhip for instance but relatively free from corruption. A prefer an honest police state anytime to a “free” but utterly corrupt “democracy”…
………………………..
Well, that explains the username…
For most of us here, it is not just that we oppose Islam, Jihad, and Shari’ah, but that we actually have deeply held values that we intend to *defend*.
For us, it is not just what we are fighting against, but what we are fighting *for*.
Christianblood says
Adrian
America and Nato toppled (Regime Changed) the democratically-elected president of Ukraine and they did this to destroy the traditional Christian principals there and replace with their evil and Anti-Christian destructive moral relativist agenda and turn Ukraine into another American vassal (LGBT) state!
Western Canadian says
And again, we hear the cry of the loon!!!
Ex-muslim says
Western Canadian
Christianblood is right but you are wrong!
Oppressaphobe says
I see no logical reason that our president constantly pokes Putin. And what would Obama do if Putin pokes back? HE DOESN’T HAVE A CLUE WHAT TO DO. He is Minney Mouse on the world stage.
DFD says
Daniel Triplett
It is very interesting what you say, and I agree about 99%+, we have to stick together. And that certainly includes Russia.
I also found your article, which I read several months ago and kept, most interesting. At least a step in the right direction. However, nuking an Islamic city wont yield any results, for a number of reasons. First of all, Islam doesn’t have a command structure centred in a specific locality. If you wanted to take out the entire ‘command’ you’d have to nuke, simultaneously, several cities in Pakistan and Iran. And practically all the cities in the Arabian peninsular. I doubt that the Russians, the Indians and the Chinese will tolerate that, and they definitely will not co-operate. Not only are their interests very different from that of the US and/or Europe, but also the fact that radioactive clouds over one’s country are somewhat unpleasant. Generally, my criticism is that WW2 thinking is way out where Islam is concerned. Apart from that, those who do the fighting for that monstrous ideology couldn’t give a damn if they die or not, and if others die… Malesh! (it was Allah’s will)
In my, humble, opinion the west should destroy the Arab military, air force first, followed by tanks and artillery, then infantry barracks. Massive blows, a 48 or even 72 hour strike around the clock. The US alone can’t do that, but NATO can, needs arm twisting though (YOU HAVE TO GET ANOTHER PRESIDENT! Come to think of it, you have to get a president in the first place…).
Next phase some ground forces and then:
Hand power to the Christians.
And no more money, that means oil, for the Muslims, but we put the Christians in charge.
If we do that, we have very reliable allies, who hate the guts of the Muslims. Their vendetta will probably kill off more Muslims than a nuke strike.
Moreover, consider this: Islam is nothing without money. And that means oil. Without that, they are backwaters, mere pits, hell holes. Their academic/engineering abilities are near zero, their manufacturing base? Brazil is pure SciFi compared with them. All their intellectual efforts are concentrated on missiles (rocket technology) and nuclear weapons – and the industrial requirements for these have to be imported. Think of what they were before the oil.
Again, cut the money and put our natural allies, who hate them, in charge. As a result we will have cheap, steady oil. A Muslim thinking about Jihad? They’ll go after them with flame throwers – and that’s when they are in good mood.
Let me put it this way: A Venetian general was asked what it takes to win. He replied: “First you need money. Then more money, then a lot more money. Then victory is practically assured.” Cut the oil and thus we cut the money.
What will be messy though, will be the fighting in our countries. Be sure, within 30miles/50km of every mosque there’s a weapons cache. And I don’t mean hunting rifles, but fully automatic AR’s, RPG’s, grenades, etc. To give you an idea, in 2009 there was an attack on the police in Berlin, with poison gas, real gas grenades! 47 officers injured, many of which could only crawl to the safety of their comrades. Took a while for the press to actually report on it, then it had nothing to do with Islam, of course not, instead it were left wing demonstrators. Total bull of course. Be certain, the Muslims in New York or Rome are equally well equipped.
Finally, a bit about Putin and the Russians standing up to them, and their reasons, apart from traditional dislike of Muslims: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEI_tY4TQZs&bpctr=1454873069 some real beheadings of Russian soldiers, includes sound. Be warned, you’ll need a strong stomach.
Hamilton says
Hopefully these “migrants” will get the message and pass it along: the men in Russia are not afraid of you.
abad says
Good for Russia. They need to send these Muslims back to their home nations – where they belong!
Boston Tea Party says
This piece should be read in conjunction with an excellent Jihad Watch piece from a few weeks ago written by a Russian author. This story pretty much was right in line with his very astute analysis of the Cologne situation:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/01/the-hypnotic-dance-of-death
Rosewood11 says
People who are still operating under the assumption that Russia is a “godless Communist” country should be on notice. Vladimir Putin is a devout, practicing Orthodox Christian. In large measure, people have returned to the Church, and even those who have not do not tolerate women being harassed, let alone molested, on the street. Americans need to take another look at what’s going on in Russia. They may be the next country sending missionaries here!!!
In the meantime, I say to these fine Russian gentlemen and their fellows in the police department, “You go, guys!!! Y’all ROCK!!!
Daniel Triplett says
You’re correct, and Vladimir Putin wears a Crucifix around his neck at all times, never removing it.
E Ward says
Some crucifixes are for political and superstitious purposes. I wouldn’t give that much weight. But hooray for the Russian version of “clubbing”. You play, you pay.
Daniel Triplett says
@E Ward
“Some crucifixes are for political and superstitious purposes.”
Come on, give the man a little credit.
Putin needs no props to gain political power. He enjoys an 85% popularity rating among Russians. And who are you or I to brand him superstitious? Did you even watch those videos I linked?
Now if you’re talking about Obama attending Jeremiah Wright’s so called “Christian Church” to pretend he’s not Muslim in order to get elected, then I’d agree with you.
Peggy says
I don’t think Putin needs to pretend to believe and therefore wear a cross. That wasn’t the reason he was elected and keeps getting elected.
It’s still way better than Obama pretending to be Christian while selling you all to Islam.
Wayne says
“Some crucifixes are for political and superstitious purposes.”
Religion IS superstition.
Western Canadian says
Wayne, the most superstitious of all religions, is atheism. And that is probably yours.
Christianblood says
Daniel Triplet
You are right, Vladimir Putin wears a Crucifix around his neck at all times, never removing it. Now click on the three photos below and compare the photos:
https://www.rt.com/politics/319490-chastity-faith-and-patriotism-/
http://www.europeanguardian.com/image/Putin_inauguration_Kirill_0.jpeg
America:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/33300524/world-landmarks-lit-up-in-rainbow-colours
Daniel Triplett says
Fascinating. The second link didn’t work, but I get the idea. That’s an interesting contrast.
adrian says
Rosewood and Daniel Triplett, you are idiots to call Putin, the mafia head of Russia’s kleptocracy, the murderer at the head of a police state, and the invader and killer of peaceful neighbor states like Georgia and Ukraine — a “fine Russian gentleman”!
Daniel Triplett says
@Adrian
Wow, if I had scrolled down to see your insulting and graceless post here first, I wouldn’t have wasted my time responding to you above. I have better things to do with my time from now on.
Go screw yourself.
And for YOU to say Putin is no gentleman, is laughable. You have a lot of growing up to do.
Adrian says
@ Daniel Triplett
Da svidanya, useful idiot.
Peggy says
Ukraine is a Nazi state. How much do you really know about any of it?
Adrian says
@Peggy
LOL… i know enough to know you and your fellow Russian trolls at Savushkina Street are wasting your time at JW…
Your hero Putin and your hero “christian” Russia have been responsible for more aggression, persecution, human misery and murders through the centuries than any jihad…
but then, facts never meant anything to the Mongol-Russian conquistadores for “Orthodoxy” nor to you apologistic “useful idiots”
Western Canadian says
Adrian, the hard left murdered 100,000,000 plus in a bit over a century (higher than that, but some STILL accept the post war lie that hitler was NOT hard left), while islam has AVERAGED 20,000,000 per century, for 1400 years…. At it’s peak tamerlane murdered 5% of the population of the planet during his bloody reign, so jihad does ‘win’ in this instance…..
Christianblood says
Adrian
Tens of thousands of Americans are violently dying each year I wonder if you thought about what is killing them? Did you?
Peggy says
Adrian says
February 7, 2016 at 9:54 am
@Peggy
LOL… i know enough to know you and your fellow Russian trolls at Savushkina Street are wasting your time at JW…
Your hero Putin and your hero “christian” Russia have been responsible for more aggression, persecution, human misery and murders through the centuries than any jihad…
but then, facts never meant anything to the Mongol-Russian conquistadores for “Orthodoxy” nor to you apologistic “useful idiots”
================
First of all I am not Russian and Putin is not my hero. I do respect him for being a true patriot and I have no respect for Obama for being a traitor.
I wish we had patriots like Putin but sadly the west is capitulating to evil which makes people like you very dangerous.
Because of your personal dislike of Russians and I can only assume that you might be Ukranian, you would rather see Russia destroyed than have Russia strong to fight Islam.
You would rather take chances with Obama, Clinton (hopefully that witch will never get elected) and submit to Sharia than let go of your personal hatred.
Putin is not dangerous to us, people like you are.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“First of all I am not Russian and Putin is not my hero. I do respect him for being a true patriot ”
A true patriot wouldn’t oppress and persecute his people.
Peggy says
Angemon says
February 8, 2016 at 5:03 pm
Peggy posted:
“First of all I am not Russian and Putin is not my hero. I do respect him for being a true patriot ”
A true patriot wouldn’t oppress and persecute his people.
============================
If he was doing that he wouldn’t enjoy the support of more than 80% of his people.
He is tough on the 5th column in his country.
What is that “patriot” obama doing to his people? Serving them up to Lucifer a.k.a. Islam. Obama is the 5th column.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“If he was doing that he wouldn’t enjoy the support of more than 80% of his people.”
If he was oppressing his population and persecuting his critics he wouldn’t have 80%+ of support you say? Surely you understand the flaw in your logic.
Russia is a DINO (Democracy In Name Only) – there’s one big party , state-controled media, and shutting down of independent media outlets. Russian journalists looking into cases of corruption have met untimely, mysterious demises:
http://en.rsf.org/europe-ex-ussr-europe-no-longer-so-exemplary-20-10-2009,34783
Putin uses state power to crack down on dissension and jail opposition leaders, as well as human rights activists. Heck, IIRC, the elections were haunted by accusations of bribery, voter intimidation and vote tampering. 99% in Chechnya? C’mon! That’s not even trying to be discreet!
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-chechnya-elections-idUSTRE7BK1CA20111221
Peggy says
Adrian says
February 7, 2016 at 1:37 am
@ Daniel Triplett
Da svidanya, useful idiot.
===================
Sounds like you have personal reasons for your opinion.
Miao Zedong says
Ukrainian who bought into the EU scam of membership.
Peggy says
Angemon says
February 9, 2016 at 5:12 pm
Peggy posted:
“If he was doing that he wouldn’t enjoy the support of more than 80% of his people.”
If he was oppressing his population and persecuting his critics he wouldn’t have 80%+ of support you say? Surely you understand the flaw in your logic.
Russia is a DINO (Democracy In Name Only) – there’s one big party , state-controled media, and shutting down of independent media outlets
===========================
Much like the west, especially the US and UK don’t you think?
Do you think our media is not controlled? Do you think we have true democracy and do you think that Russians don’t have access to the internet?
Russians have access to the same internet as we do.
I have already explained that we in the west only have an illusion of democracy. It’s not true democracy. We are worse off because our government is our enemy. At least Putin is looking after Russia. Who is looking after us?
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“Much like the west, especially the US and UK don’t you think?”
That’s irrelevant to what I said regarding Putin and Russia.
“Do you think our media is not controlled?”
That is also irrelevant to what I said regarding Putin and Russia.
“Do you think we have true democracy and do you think that Russians don’t have access to the internet?”
That also is irrelevant to what I said regarding Putin and Russia.
“Russians have access to the same internet as we do.”
Minus the websites the Russian government censors, but that is also irrelevant to what I said about Putin and Russia
“I have already explained that we in the west only have an illusion of democracy. It’s not true democracy. We are worse off because our government is our enemy.”
Irrelevant to what I said about Putin and Russia.
“At least Putin is looking after Russia.”
By oppressing his people? By killing his people? By having human rights activists and journalists arrested or murdered? Rewording the same thing I questioned to begin with is not actually rebutting what I said or bringing anything new to the table.
If you like Putin and Russia that much, move there. Don’t be like those muslims who boast and gloat about the islamic state but prefer to live in infidel lands.
“Who is looking after us?”
Grassroot movements. People arguing for smaller government and rights to bear arms. People spreading the word about islam and jihad. In short: the people can do what a bloated, centralized government can’t. When one hears political parties and the EU warning about the rise of “right-wing parties”, one knows their status quo is threatened.
quotha raven says
To Angemon (and Peggy) – There’s nothing quite like experiencing face to face for real and in person an exposure to, an encounter with or an immersion in a culture or a people that simply does not think as you do, does not communicate, react or respond in ways with which you are familiar, has ideas of what is true and what is acceptable in society that are utterly inimical to your own, the ideas you’ve spent your whole life absorbing.
I suggest that Peggy – and TO Peggy – that she may never have experienced this. As, for example, I did when I landed in West Africa for the first time, to spend four months traveling as a journalist. It took me quite a while to come to grips with a mind set and a system of thought and communication completely alien to my own.
After seeing how Peggy misunderstood what you were expressing re Putin and the West in response to Peggy, it immediately occurred to me that Peggy is a person who probably hasn’t traveled much and is not very worldly. Perhaps she is quite young. For the time being, maybe a study of Venn Diagrams might help.
Cheers!.
quotha raven
Peggy says
After seeing how Peggy misunderstood what you were expressing re Putin and the West in response to Peggy, it immediately occurred to me that Peggy is a person who probably hasn’t traveled much and is not very worldly. Perhaps she is quite young. For the time being, maybe a study of Venn Diagrams might help.
Cheers!.
quotha raven
=====================
I have traveled and I am not young so your explanation of or why I said what I said is silly.
Your whole post is quite irrelevant because it does not address anything I said nor does Angemon’s reply.
He is talking about something not relevant to the story for a start but wants to use this opportunity to dump on Putin.
So I responded with my reply showing him how we in the west aren’t any better off that the Russians because we don’t have true democracy. Now he responds with “it’s irrelevant” BS. It is very relevant to what he said initially. It’s a counter argument.
Now instead of finding faults with my response to him all he has to say is that it’s irrelevant and all you have to say is how clash of cultures can be difficult and that is a problem that I have.
Please respond to what I have said and don’t divert to another topic trying to force me to defend something I wasn’t even talking about.
I know cultures are different but so what.
We don’t have to adopt theirs and they don’t have to become us as long as we don’t mean each other any harm.
Ever heard of live and let live?
Try it.
Russians keep electing him. Let them decide what’s good for them. We are struggling to find what’s good for us.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“Your whole post is quite irrelevant because it does not address anything I said nor does Angemon’s reply.”
Lol! That’s hilarious coming from you, Ms “US and the UK”.
“He is talking about something not relevant to the story for a start but wants to use this opportunity to dump on Putin.”
And now you’ve moved from irrelevant nonsense to ad hominem. Can you counter anything I said regarding Putin’s human rights abuses? The state-controlled media and persecution of independent media? The tampering of elections? If you can, you’re hiding it pretty well, and ascribing me nonsense for no apparent reason won’t change it.
“So I responded with my reply showing him how we in the west aren’t any better off that the Russians because we don’t have true democracy.”
Peggy, time to hold you to your own standards. According to you, what I stated about Putin is “not relevant to the story” (do remember I replied to what YOU said about Putin – it’s not like I walked to this topic and started to talk about him out of nowhere). How is saying “we in the west aren’t any better off that the Russians because we don’t have true democracy” relevant to the story?
“Now he responds with “it’s irrelevant” BS”
It *IS* irrelevant. If you say Puttin is A and I say he’s not because so and so, saying that Obama is not A as well does not in any way invalidate what I said about Putin. That’s the textbook description of a red herring, a logical fallacy.
“It is very relevant to what he said initially.”
No, it isn’t. You did not address my points about Putin. You instead trailed off to rant about the US and the UK. WHat I stated about Putin remains unchallenged. Bloody hell, you’re being no different, in nature, than a muslim foaming from the mouth and shouting “THE CRUSADES!!! HITLER WAS A CHRISTIANII!” when asked about muhammad murdering innocent civilians and raping a 9-year-old girl.
“It’s a counter argument.”
No, it isn’t, anymore than saying “the sky is blue and the grass is green” is a reply to someone asking “what time is it?”. I pointed out that Putin had human rights activists and opposing political leaders arrested, if not outright killed, and he tampered with elections. Ignoring what I said and talking about the UK and the US, or the internet access in Russia, is NOT a counter argument. It’s a red herring.
“Now instead of finding faults with my response to him”
I did that. Again, TALKING ABOUT THE UK, US, OR INTERNET ACCESS IN RUSSIA DOES NOT – I REPEAT – DOES NOT ADDRESS WHAT I SAID ABOUT PUTIN. IT’S IRRELEVANT. THAT’S THE FAULT IN YOUR RESPONSE: EVEN IF IT WERE 100% TRUE, IT MEANS NOTHING TO WHAT I SAID ABOUT PUTIN.
“all he has to say is that it’s irrelevant”
That’s exactly the fault I found in your response. It’s irrelevant. Again, TALKING ABOUT THE UK, US, OR INTERNET ACCESS IN RUSSIA DOES NOT – I REPEAT – DOES NOT ADDRESS WHAT I SAID ABOUT PUTIN. IT’S IRRELEVANT.
And it’s funny how you claim i did not found a fault in your response only to say the fault I found – what you said is completely irrelevant to what I said since it does not address any of the points I made.
“Please respond to what I have said and don’t divert to another topic trying to force me to defend something I wasn’t even talking about.”
You mean, like when you started ranting about the UK, and the UK, and internet access in Russia when faced with Putin’s wrongdoings?
“Russians keep electing him. Let them decide what’s good for them.”
First of all, if he’s so popular, why tamper with election? Second, this is no longer a matter of what’s good for them. Not with the tampering in other nation’s affairs – case in point, the annexation of Crimea. By your logic, one shouldn’t criticize Hitler – sure, he invaded Poland, but it’s up to the Germans to decide what’s good for them.
gravenimage says
Peggy wrote:
Ever heard of live and let live?
Try it.
……………………..
This is just hilarious from someone defending authoritarian thuggishness. Try asking the Ukraine and assassinated journalists how much Putin practices “live and let live”.
Oppressaphobe says
NO WONDER OBAMA HATES HIM!
خَليفة says
Go Russia.
It has been known for centuries that the way to deal with Muslims is always have a bigger stick and never hesitant to use it.
Mad Max says
What a good news story I feel all warm and fuzzy inside . Had a go Russian he men .
Shmooviyet says
@Mad Max, agreed!
This, combined with ‘muslim terrorist sucked out of airplane’, makes for a happier JW experience.
Shmooviyet says
Do the feminists still believe the ‘fish without a bicycle’ crap?
Absolutely believe American men will be most willing to do the same, if it comes to it.
Oppressaphobe says
Some would, but the problem is that they would be arrested and hung by Loretta Lynch.
Our problem is the PC Rope we are using to hang ourselves with.
gungfugilman says
Finally, a positive story out of Euorpe. Go russians.
Kenny says
Fantastic!
Rich says
Here are some Russians dealing with the problem as it needs to be dealt with (two dead Muslims, eight seriously injured Muslims): https://youtu.be/bsIykHP_D_U.
All in all, a very good day.
Daniel Triplett says
That’s a shit hot video! I love it.
Street justice, delivered Russian style. Always great to see Muslims getting their asses kicked.
You know you’re in trouble when your opponents all put on knuckle gloves and are smart enough to remove their shirts for the fight.
WorkingClassPost says
The only problem with this story, is that it’s far too short!
Couldn’t we dig up some action replays, and spectator commentaries, and stretch it out into a really enjoyable bit of bedtime reading?
Wellington says
There are two great things about the Russians and one very negative thing. The two great things about this unique people are 1) their extraordinary courage, never surpassed and rarely equaled; and 2) their extremely impressive intellectual and artistic heritage——-whether in science, mathematics, the visual arts, music and, of course, literature. The great negative about the Russians is that they are dismal on the matter of freedom. Unlike such people as the ancient Greeks, the English (but not recently sadly), the Dutch, the Swiss, the French in their own goofy way, traditional Australians and Canadians, and certainly the Americans, the Russians are dismal on the freedom front.
HOWEVER, where dealing with Muslims acting badly (excuse the redundancy) is concerned, the Russians are far better off than virtually any people of Western Europe, even though they do have a large Muslims population, because they won’t take shit off of anyone. They never have and they never will. This characteristic functions as a subset of the first great thing I mentioned about the Russians and will serve them well in dealing with believers in the worst religion of all time.
gravenimage says
Well said, Wellington.
Georg says
Agreed.
Peggy says
The fact that there is a 15% Muslim population in Russia and they haven’t managed to take over says a lot about Russians.
We have less than 5% in many western countries and here we are surrendering to Islam.
What does that say about us?
So scr@w our democracy. It’s killing us.
Russia is not North Korea. It’s a free enough country.
Western Canadian says
Unless of course the existing rulers in Russia, unlike ours in the west, are NOT selling out. Only difference.
Ex-muslim says
Western Canadian
You are NUTS. You are really wrong!
gravenimage says
Peggy wrote:
So scr@w our democracy
……………………..
Surrendering to Islam would screw our democracy, as well. If your main goal is throwing out our values, that might be the way for you to go.
That is, of course, assuming that you ever held freedom and democracy to be values you esteem in the first place…
Peggy says
I was talking about the version of democracy we currently have which is to get rid of all that is good and import all that is bad.
I believe in democracy that’s why I am critical of the version they are serving us now.
Do you think that democratic values are nurtured today?
gravenimage says
Peggy wrote:
Do you think that democratic values are nurtured today?
……………………
Not enough, no.
But the idea that we achieve a proper respect for and application of democracy by saying “scr@w democracy” and throwing our ideals out the window to embrace authoritarianism is, shall we say, questionable at best.
Pong says
It is easy to exlain “Russian fenomen”. They are Europeans outside and Asians inside.
Christianblood says
Wellington
Thank you!
The only part of the I disagree is the “freedom” part. Please understand Wellington that for Russians freedom means, Christian Orthodox faith and its traditional value system, and One Strong Leader. Please also understand that Western “freedom” ONLY leads to the B.S. things as political-correctness, spinelessness and postmodernist relativism. Look where the West is to today Wellington and it is all because of the “liberal democratic bullshit” that you are calling freedom. I thank God that Russia is not accepting that evil corrupt worldview.
Ex-muslim says
@ Christianblood
God Bless Russia and their leaders, especially President Putin.
They are becoming champions for Christianity and for common sense!
Wellington says
If you think, Ex-muslim, that Putin is a champion of Christianity, then you have exchanged one false belief (Islam) for another (Putin as a devout Christian and a man of enlightened reasoning).
Putin is a Machiavellian out for himself, his closest associates and for his state. By now one knows this or should know it. Seems you don’t. It would be difficult to be more naïve than you are, but it is possible I suppose.
Wellington says
Liberal democracy per se, Chirstianblood, is not the problem. Rather, liberal democracy done badly is. I would argue that what is optimal for any polity is a fourfold requirement:1) democracy; 2) capitalism; 3) a proper moral foundation; and 4) a sound and fair legal system.
If even one of these elements is missing, then to the extent that it is, the polity will suffer. With many states more than one of these elements don’t exist or only in corrupted form. The problem with the West right now is that the proper moral foundation of old, the Judeo-Christian ethic, is in the process of being replaced with a relativistic, so-called progressive ethic, which is rooted in self and not some higher purpose as can be found with the Judeo-Christian ethic.
Also, one must distinguish between capitalism, which while not perfect is still easily the finest economic system ever developed by man, and crony capitalism. Many don’t make the distinction and wherever you have crony capitalism you don’t have a proper moral foundation infusing the economic sector. Additionally, democracy must be infused with self-restraint, otherwise things can devolve into license, this again being demonstrative of a moral foundation gone awry. A fine legal system like Common Law or Roman Law must be accompanied by common sense, which many judges in the West no longer possess, so here too there has been descent.
Of course, the Islamic world fails in all four requirements that I mentioned above. The Islamic world does not have democracy, true capitalism and certainly no proper moral foundation or decent legal system. Hence it’s desultory, destructive and decrepit state.
I taught many Russians over the course of my teaching career and learned much about Russia from them. I’ll never forget what one Russian told me when I had conveyed to my class that what made America great above all factors was freedom. The Russian politely pointed out to me that I had to understand that freedom meant something different to Russians than it did to Americans. Freedom to a Russian, this Russian said, meant being able to buy as much vodka as you want and being left alone in your apartment to drink it. I think this confirms my initial post here where I maintained that the great negative about the Russians is that they don’t get freedom——real freedom.
Christianblood says
Welington
As I said before, “freedom” in the West means one can do whatever they want, including sleeping with their mum, dad, daughter or son. For West that is RIGHT..
For Russia, RIGHT IS RIGHT AND WRONG IS WRONG According to the Bible. .
Angemon says
Christianblood posted:
“Welington
As I said before, “freedom” in the West means one can do whatever they want, including sleeping with their mum, dad, daughter or son. For West that is RIGHT..
For Russia, RIGHT IS RIGHT AND WRONG IS WRONG According to the Bible. .”
What does the Bible says about lying? Also, can you back your assertion that the West considers that sleeping with their mum, dad, daughter or son is RIGHT?
Wellington says
That is not freedom, Christianblood, but freedom horribly abused. Huge difference. I don’t think you get this. Real freedom must be accompanied by a keen sense of what is right and wrong and no one knew this better than the Founding Fathers of America. Surely you know this much about America’s origins. I certainly hope so.
BTW, you might be interested in what another Russian student of mine back in 2000 said to me when I asked him about Putin and what kind of leader he would be since he had just become President of Russia. All I knew about Putin back then was that he was relatively young, had been in the KGB and was fluent in German. This Russian student, who was highly intelligent I might add, and who spoke English well but with a fairly heavy Russian accent, responded to my query with just four words. He said: “Once KGB, always KGB.” Pretty damn good call I would say.
gravenimage says
Christianblood wrote:
Welington
As I said before, “freedom” in the West means one can do whatever they want, including sleeping with their mum, dad, daughter or son. For West that is RIGHT..
………………………..
If he actually believes this, then “Christianblood” understands *nothing* about freedom, and nothing about the free West.
Does this surprise anyone here?
MKG says
Yep, there’s nothing like a good ass woopin to put a fellow in his place.
Mo says
Glad to know there are some MEN left, at least somewhere in the world!
Cameron says
Finally some good news about Islam. It’s been a long time coming.
gravenimage says
Russia: Muslim migrants grope and molest women, get beaten up
…………………..
Bravo to these Russian men for standing up for their women against Muslim savagery!
Davegreybeard says
I am all for it!
Molest women of girls and get the crap beat out of you!
Check your email, graven.
gravenimage says
Thank you, Dave. I will get right back to you.
Peggy says
Can you imagine what would happen to a savage if he tried to molest a boy in a pool? In Russia he would be drowned right there and then.
In Austria, what actually happened to him?
Western Canadian says
Read the article again…. you seem to have failed to do so.
Peggy says
So what happened to the savage? He got arrested. What happened next? Will he be represented by best of lawyers at tax payer’s expense or was he beaten up by the cops like the savages in Russia?
Handling of these savages is very different in these two countries.
What exactly were you trying to tell me?
More Ham Ed says
Great story while heating up a hot HAM & cheese sandwich.
Jaladhi says
Hats off to the Russians!! You think the cowards of Western Europe can learn something from them or they would still be riding high on the fake morality horse that they have been riding now for at least 100 years!!
Jaladhi says
Russians should push these bastards back into Germany or Austria or any Scandinavian country!!
Wellington says
Not far enough. How about even farther west? I’m thinking the Atlantic Ocean here.
Jay Boo says
A tugboat pulling a leaky barge with a promise that all Muslims aboard will receive 73 virgins while the Pied Piper serenades these rats.
mike ryan says
I just laughed.
Georg says
Robin Williams on Russians: “The other white race.”
Looks can be deceiving, eh, you Islamopervs? Welcome to the bloc. Barking up the wrong tree! Bahhahahahahahah
Champ says
Woo-hoo!!! Finally, a well deserved beating! And it’s great to see that chivalry is not dead! …but islam your days are numbered and you’re goin’ down to china town sick-os!
jP says
Rapugees went clubbing and got clubbed. Good.
Georg says
It’s no fun when the rabbit has the gun.
Hope says
YES! Stand up and fight! I am so glad to have read this story about these Russian men, and to have seen the news about the anti-Islam rallies in Europe today. FIGHT and never give up!
Georg says
Boy, oh boy, they must’ve felt some dissonance experiencing someone pigmentally challenged who had no interest in being walked all over, tee-hee-hoo…
Rocco Lore says
Russia will NOT end up like Rotherham or Cologne.
Mazo says
It already has. Yazidi mafia from Georgia, Russian Jewish Mafia and Chechen Mafia all engage in trafficking and prostitution of Slavic Russian girls.
Tens of thousands of Russian prostitutes ended up in East Asia and the Middle East due to mafia rackets
Ordinary Slavic Russians are even afraid of Yazidis because of their mafia reputation.
Western Canadian says
Calling all organized crime groups ‘mafia’, puts your credibility at less than nothing.
Mazo says
They are mafia. Yazidis, Jews, Chechens in Russia are all big in prostitution rackets, drug smuggling, extortion, and trade in military grade weapons. Georgians are also involved. Russians call them mafia.
Putin is letting these criminals run freely around Russia and one of Putin’s advisors is a Chechen named Vladislav Surkov.
Mazo says
There is a massive glut of women being exported from Russia. Some of them are voluntary mail order brides and others are victims of Yazidi, Jewish and Chechen mafia traffickers who run prostitution rings of Slavic Russian girls since Yazidis, Jews and Chechens are big in the Mafia.
http://www.thedailybeast. com/articles/2016/01/02/from-russia-with-love-thousands-of-wives-for-turkish-husbands.html
THE GOOD WIVES
From Russia With Love, Thousands Of Wives For Turkish Husbands
ANNA NEMTSOVA01.02.161:01 AM E
ISTANBUL — Non-drinking, gentle, loving, caring, hard-working and devoted to the family: qualities most Russian women have in mind when they dream of a perfect husband.
Before the current conflict with Russia, a reawakened cold war, Turkey received over 4 million Russian tourists a year. But not all of them returned to Russia. Many women stayed.
Indeed, the Russian face in Turkey is very female.
“We are talking about a unique phenomenon here,” Professor Vügar İmanbeyli, with SETA, Foundation for Political, Economic and Social Research, told The Daily Beast. “There are up to 300,000 Turkish-Russian married couples. Most Russian immigrants to Turkey are women. Turkish men traditionally devote themselves to families and Russian women like it, when men take responsibility for decision making,”
http://www.al-monitor. com/pulse/originals/2015/11/turkey-russia-downing-of-russian-jet-akp-pundits-dare-devil.html
Some of the more interesting reactions were to be found in satirical anonymous accounts. In one example, a user posted a photo of Putin with a flaming gas burner as a halo and joked, “The plane isn’t that big a deal, but it was carrying [natural] gas.” A troll account with a profile photo of a young woman claiming to be perpetually single tweeted, “As a response to the bombing of their plane, I would suggest Russian girls avoid Turkey.” There are a large number of Russian brides in Turkey, and they are a source of resentment among some Turkish women.
Mazo says
http://www.chinasmack. com/2013/pictures/taiwanese-guys-russian-girlfriend.html
Single Chinese Men Encouraged by Taiwanese Guy’s Russian Girlfriend
http://www.henrymakow. com/personal_story-_the_russian_gi.html
A frequent sight on these evenings were beautiful Russian girls, the majority of whom were studying Chinese. Many of them looked like super models, wore revealing dresses and drank heavily, raring to go!
A young man’s dream you might think. But the reality was much different. I found these girls to have a self-destructive lifestyle of alcoholism, drug abuse and casual prostitution.
http://shanghaiist. com/2012/12/11/korean_prostitutes_overrun_the_taip.php
Russians used to be the most common ‘foreign’ prostitutes in Taiwan, so much so that getting called Russian on the streets of Taipei is close to being an insult.
Mazo says
http://www.chinasmack. com/2013/pictures/taiwanese-guys-russian-girlfriend.html
Single Chinese Men Encouraged by Taiwanese Guy’s Russian Girlfriend
http://www.henrymakow. com/personal_story-_the_russian_gi.html
A frequent sight on these evenings were beautiful Russian girls, the majority of whom were studying Chinese. Many of them looked like super models, wore revealing dresses and drank heavily, raring to go!
A young man’s dream you might think. But the reality was much different. I found these girls to have a self-destructive lifestyle of alcoholism, drug abuse and casual prostitution.
http://shanghaiist. com/2012/12/11/korean_prostitutes_overrun_the_taip.php
Russians used to be the most common ‘foreign’ prostitutes in Taiwan, so much so that getting called Russian on the streets of Taipei is close to being an insult.
http://www.world-walk-about. com/northern-asia/south-korea/why-men-in-korea-think-im-a-prostitute/
Are you Russian?”
I am waiting for the light to change while walking to my job as an elementary school English teacher when a young Korean man rolls down his window and yells this seemingly innocuous question. Immediately I am furious.
I’ve been told before that sometimes men in Korea will ask white women if they are Russian, which is an informal way of asking if they are a prostitute because there are so many Eastern European women in the sex industry here. But I’m in a smallish town, I’m dressed professionally, and I’m carrying my lunch. I really don’t think my appearance screams “prostitute!” But maybe I’m wrong…I mean, even prostitutes need to eat lunch. I glare at the man, and walk away, brushing off the incident as a one-time insult by an ignorant man.
A few months later, I am waiting at a bus station while Matt is in the bathroom. As I sit there playing with my phone, a middle Eastern man approaches me and asks me “Are you Russian?”
This time I just look at him and say “No.” I try to ignore him and go back to my phone, but he asks 2 or 3 more times. I repeat “no,” saying it in both English and Korean. I think he’s finally gotten the point, because then he walks away.
However, less than a minute later he returns with a friend and they eagerly asked me again “Are you Russian?” I say no again, and they switch tactics. “Are you Ukrainian?”
Getting frustrated I finally say “No! I’m American.”
“Oh, American.” They look disappointed. And then they walk away, which further proves my theory that they were not just interested in discussing my nationality. I was currently wearing a sweatshirt and sneakers, hadn’t showered that day (which I know is unbelievably sexy), plus I always wear my wedding ring, and yet somehow I was giving off the prostitute vibe. I’m not sure whether to be flattered or offended…
Western Canadian says
And you are posting this endless string of off topic swill because???
gravenimage says
Because Mazo wants to pretend that all the problems in Russia are caused by non-Muslims, especially Jews and Yezidis.
And why? Because Muslims are enslaving and murdering these groups–that is, they are the victims of Muslims.
And he will not mention the story above, where Infidels will not allow Muslims to molest and rape women.
Mazo says
Cravenmirage did not condemn Yazidi, Jewish, and Georgian mafia in Russia.
Does that mean Cravenmirage supports their behavior?
Angemon says
Mazo posted:
“Cravenmirage did not condemn Yazidi, Jewish, and Georgian mafia in Russia.
Does that mean Cravenmirage supports their behavior?”
Says the guy who supports muslims raping non-muslim women and children.
gravenimage says
If Yazidi, Jewish, and Georgian mafia are trafficking women, of course I condemn them.
Still waiting for Mazo to take issue with his rapist coreligionists. I assume holding my breath in this case would be bad for my health?
Mazo says
http://www.gzstuff. com/forum/topics/are-you-russianare-you-a
Are you Russian=Are you a Prostitute?
http://www.thechinawatch. com/2012/02/blue-eyed-sex-for-sale/
“Fapiao,” she says in a heavy Russian accent that’s not quite pronounced properly. She repeats the Chinese word for “invoice,” and there’s no mistake that she’s a working girl who can provide a way for her customers to covertly get reimbursed.
Pan Suiming, a professor with Renmin University of China and one of China’s leading sexologists, says high-end, foreign prostitutes are making big bucks while providing their clients with the added bonus of fake invoices.
“I am afraid all the sex workers know these two Chinese words,” Pan told the Global Times. “It appeals to Chinese customers,” who get free sex by claiming the expense as some far less nefarious business activity.
High-end call girls and high rollers aside, prostitution is far from a glamorous, innocent occupation. Caught by the police in China, hookers, their pimps and their johns can receive sentences up to 10 years in jail. Some have been given life sentences and in the past a few have been executed.
Yet the risks and punishment haven’t stopped foreign sex workers from coming to China where they have exotic appeal and can earn more than they would at home.
Sex workers from Europe and Asia
While there are no clear-cut statistics on the number of overseas sex workers, most white women practicing their trade in China are from Russia, Mongolia and Eastern Europe. There are also many Asian women from Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, according to previously published police reports. The total number of sex workers in China has been estimated to be between 1 and 6 million.
In early 2010, three Eastern European women in Shanghai were deported after they spent 15 days in detention for prostitution. The women, between 20 and 30 years old, told police that they had been lured to Shanghai with promises of high-paying jobs.
Two men in Xi’an, Shaanxi Province, were sentenced to 14 years and eight years in prison for coercing three foreign women aged 19 to 29 into the sex trade in 2010.
A “Madame,” whose stable of hookers included Russian and Chinese prostitutes, told the Global Times earlier that the police had turned up the heat and she was giving up the business and leaving Beijing. “The girls are gone, and my business is done thanks to the police,” she said.
She recounted how her two Russian girls – Iva and Eva – could easily make 2,000 yuan ($317) a day.
The Russian pair made a hasty retreat from China a week after Beijing police closed more than 250 sex parlors – which often pose as hair salons – and detained more than 1,100 sex workers in April 2010.
Liu Wenyan, a lawyer with the All-China Women’s Federation, told the Global Times that Chinese police have a lot of difficulties dealing with foreign sex workers.
“There’s a language barrier and they have a foreign passport. Just about the only things Chinese police can do is issue a warning, report them to their country’s embassy, and deport them rather than try them in court,” said Liu, suggesting that China’s relatively open visa requirements make it hard for police to prevent foreign prostitutes from entering the country.
http://content.time. com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101930621-161939,00.html
When the Iron Curtain disintegrated, few would have guessed that in less than five years it would lead to a massive exodus of poverty-stricken East European women, desperate to sell themselves for what rarely turns out to be the good life. Police say a quarter of Germany’s 200,000 prostitutes are now from the former East bloc. Even in the puritanical Middle East, charter flights full of Russian women disembark weekly at Dubai’s airport, ply their trade on 14-day visas and head home, loaded with color television sets. At the Gallery, a Brussels nightclub, a naked Hungarian couple thrash about in what appears to be a live sex act, to tape-recorded groans. Across the Belgian capital at the Aloha Club, Lenka, a 21-year-old Czech stripper, outfitted in fake leopard skin, entertains clients with $470 magnums of champagne. Half the peep shows in town are now staffed by East Europeans — up from 1% three years ago, according to police.
In Tel Aviv the number of brothels has skyrocketed in five years from 30 to 150 — largely because of an influx of Russians into Israel. Though some are new immigrants driven to the trade by financial troubles, most are temporary visitors who enter the country on tourist visas. Scores of ads for “entertainment services,” many boasting “hot new Russians,” riddle the Israeli papers. Bars in major Chinese cities now offer blond, blue-eyed Russian “hostesses,” while in Tokyo, Russian girls are the latest addition to the menu in fancy “hostess” bars. In Modena, Italy, last fall, police rounded up more than 100 women from Bulgaria, Poland, Romania and points east. Allegedly lured as dancers by a self-described theatrical agent, they were then forced “to be nice to customers or else.” The agent is now awaiting trial. Even war does not halt the traffic. In Kac, a cluster of rundown farmhouses in northern Serbia, dark-haired Valenka gyrates half nude at the local bar and beckons customers upstairs for one-on-one at $62 an hour. The 24-year-old emigrated from Donetsk, in Ukraine, where her meat-packer parents earned $2 a week and she could not support her baby daughter. Now married to a Serbian pimp, she says, “So many Ukrainian women would welcome the chance I am getting.”
http://www.asiapacificms. com/articles/russian_mafia/
Nobody know how many Russian gangsters – or prostitutes – there are in Vietnam today. But since the fall of communism in the former Soviet Union four years ago, there has been a dramatic rise in the number of Russians in Asia. The exodus has been more massive than after the first Russian Revolution in 1917, when hordes of defeated anti-communist fighters, and their families, arrived in the Far East. Most sought refuge in the International Settlement in Shanghai, where the Russian population by the mid-1930s numbered 25,000. As author Lynn Pan puts it, “dispossessed, deprived of citizenship, socially, they occupied a grey area between white expatriates and Chinese.” The men became bodyguards and riding instructors; the women hair-dressers, cabaret dancers and prostitutes, selling their services to all buyers, Chinese and Europeans alike.
In the present second wave of migration to the Far East, it is not only Vietnam which has received a massive influx of Russians. The number of Russian visitors to Thailand has increased from only a few hundred in the late 1980s to 24,000 in 1993, 31,000 the following year and nearly 50,000 in 1995. Entire Russian quarters have sprung up in the beach resort of Pattaya east of Bangkok. Officially, they are “tourists”. Most of them are small-scale merchants who buy electronics and textiles in Asia and sell them in Russia for a modest profit. But many remain behind in Thailand to run restaurants which serve borsch, shashlik and, when available, Russian caviar. Some talented young men find jobs as jazz musicians in clubs catering to the Bangkok’s affluent, new middle class. Many Russian girls work as entertainers in Bangkok’s numerous night clubs, or can be hired as “escorts”.
The police in Bangkok estimate that there are now at least 5,000 Russian prostitutes in Thailand, and the number is likely to increase the wealthier the country becomes. According to a Bangkok-based diplomat: “There’s no shortage of local prostitutes in Bangkok. But rich Thai, Chinese, Japanese and Korean businessmen prefer white girls. It gives them prestige.” The prices they charge – US$ 200-400 as opposed to US$ 20-30 for a Thai girl – contribute to their special value in terms of social status.
The girls are believed to have come to Asia through networks operated by the Russian mafia. But in the Far East as well as in North America and in Europe – and even in Moscow and Vladivostok – it is hard to say what the term “mafia” actually means in today’s chaotic Russian context. Stephen Handelman, a journalist who was Moscow Bureau Chief of The Toronto Star from 1987 to 1992 and an expert on Russian organised crime, estimates that total active gang membership today is actually not more than 100,000 people. Between 3,000 and 4,000 gangs operate all over Russia, which means that most of them are fairly small, most probably loosely organised and that their activities – as well as members – often overlap.
https://venture160.wordpress. com/2007/04/12/hunan-cadre-nailed-for-sex-with-russian-prostitute/
Hunan Cadre nailed for sex with Russian prostitute, Chinese netizens suspect it was a set-up
April 12, 2007
Chinese anti-corruption official sacked for Russian tryst
Apr 12, 2007, 11:27 GMT
Beijing – A Communist Party official who was a top provincial campaigner against corruption has been sacked after he was caught in a hotel room with a Russian prostitute, the party’s official newspaper said on Thursday.
Du Xiangcheng was expelled from the party and sacked from his post as deputy secretary of the party’s Commission for Discipline Inspection in the central province of Hunan, People’s Daily and other state media reported. Du was found ‘in a compromising situation with a Russian woman’ at a five-star hotel while he was in Beijing on official business last December.
The party’s central discipline commission has also opened an investigation into Du’s assets and financial dealings, the reports said. Du had cemented a reputation as a stalwart campaigner against corruption through a case against the head of discipline inspection in Hunan’s Changde city in 2004. ‘Cadres are only human and they have desires, so all leading cadres should be able to handle such tests,’ Du told the official Xinhua news agency during the investigation into the Changde case.
https://answers.yahoo. com/question/index?qid=20130910043341AAONaKJ
http://www.lifeinkorea. com/Boards/read.cfm?BoardID=19&MsgID=3259
https://answers.yahoo. com/question/index?qid=20110524054117AAufEJG
Courtesy of Yazidi, Jewish, Chechen, Dagestani, Georgian and other pimps in the mafia
Peggy says
Mazo, you are obsessed with women and sex.
Get help.
Mazo says
http://www.gzstuff. com/forum/topics/are-you-russianare-you-a
Are you Russian=Are you a Prostitute?
http://www.thechinawatch. com/2012/02/blue-eyed-sex-for-sale/
“Fapiao,” she says in a heavy Russian accent that’s not quite pronounced properly. She repeats the Chinese word for “invoice,” and there’s no mistake that she’s a working girl who can provide a way for her customers to covertly get reimbursed.
Pan Suiming, a professor with Renmin University of China and one of China’s leading sexologists, says high-end, foreign prostitutes are making big bucks while providing their clients with the added bonus of fake invoices.
“I am afraid all the sex workers know these two Chinese words,” Pan told the Global Times. “It appeals to Chinese customers,” who get free sex by claiming the expense as some far less nefarious business activity.
High-end call girls and high rollers aside, prostitution is far from a glamorous, innocent occupation. Caught by the police in China, hookers, their pimps and their johns can receive sentences up to 10 years in jail. Some have been given life sentences and in the past a few have been executed.
Yet the risks and punishment haven’t stopped foreign sex workers from coming to China where they have exotic appeal and can earn more than they would at home.
Sex workers from Europe and Asia
While there are no clear-cut statistics on the number of overseas sex workers, most white women practicing their trade in China are from Russia, Mongolia and Eastern Europe. There are also many Asian women from Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, according to previously published police reports. The total number of sex workers in China has been estimated to be between 1 and 6 million.
In early 2010, three Eastern European women in Shanghai were deported after they spent 15 days in detention for prostitution. The women, between 20 and 30 years old, told police that they had been lured to Shanghai with promises of high-paying jobs.
Two men in Xi’an, Shaanxi Province, were sentenced to 14 years and eight years in prison for coercing three foreign women aged 19 to 29 into the sex trade in 2010.
A “Madame,” whose stable of hookers included Russian and Chinese prostitutes, told the Global Times earlier that the police had turned up the heat and she was giving up the business and leaving Beijing. “The girls are gone, and my business is done thanks to the police,” she said.
She recounted how her two Russian girls – Iva and Eva – could easily make 2,000 yuan ($317) a day.
The Russian pair made a hasty retreat from China a week after Beijing police closed more than 250 sex parlors – which often pose as hair salons – and detained more than 1,100 sex workers in April 2010.
Liu Wenyan, a lawyer with the All-China Women’s Federation, told the Global Times that Chinese police have a lot of difficulties dealing with foreign sex workers.
“There’s a language barrier and they have a foreign passport. Just about the only things Chinese police can do is issue a warning, report them to their country’s embassy, and deport them rather than try them in court,” said Liu, suggesting that China’s relatively open visa requirements make it hard for police to prevent foreign prostitutes from entering the country.
Mazo says
http://content.time. com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101930621-161939,00.html
When the Iron Curtain disintegrated, few would have guessed that in less than five years it would lead to a massive exodus of poverty-stricken East European women, desperate to sell themselves for what rarely turns out to be the good life. Police say a quarter of Germany’s 200,000 prostitutes are now from the former East bloc. Even in the puritanical Middle East, charter flights full of Russian women disembark weekly at Dubai’s airport, ply their trade on 14-day visas and head home, loaded with color television sets. At the Gallery, a Brussels nightclub, a naked Hungarian couple thrash about in what appears to be a live sex act, to tape-recorded groans. Across the Belgian capital at the Aloha Club, Lenka, a 21-year-old Czech stripper, outfitted in fake leopard skin, entertains clients with $470 magnums of champagne. Half the peep shows in town are now staffed by East Europeans — up from 1% three years ago, according to police.
In Tel Aviv the number of brothels has skyrocketed in five years from 30 to 150 — largely because of an influx of Russians into Israel. Though some are new immigrants driven to the trade by financial troubles, most are temporary visitors who enter the country on tourist visas. Scores of ads for “entertainment services,” many boasting “hot new Russians,” riddle the Israeli papers. Bars in major Chinese cities now offer blond, blue-eyed Russian “hostesses,” while in Tokyo, Russian girls are the latest addition to the menu in fancy “hostess” bars. In Modena, Italy, last fall, police rounded up more than 100 women from Bulgaria, Poland, Romania and points east. Allegedly lured as dancers by a self-described theatrical agent, they were then forced “to be nice to customers or else.” The agent is now awaiting trial. Even war does not halt the traffic. In Kac, a cluster of rundown farmhouses in northern Serbia, dark-haired Valenka gyrates half nude at the local bar and beckons customers upstairs for one-on-one at $62 an hour. The 24-year-old emigrated from Donetsk, in Ukraine, where her meat-packer parents earned $2 a week and she could not support her baby daughter. Now married to a Serbian pimp, she says, “So many Ukrainian women would welcome the chance I am getting.”
http://www.asiapacificms.com/articles/russian_mafia/
Nobody know how many Russian gangsters – or prostitutes – there are in Vietnam today. But since the fall of communism in the former Soviet Union four years ago, there has been a dramatic rise in the number of Russians in Asia. The exodus has been more massive than after the first Russian Revolution in 1917, when hordes of defeated anti-communist fighters, and their families, arrived in the Far East. Most sought refuge in the International Settlement in Shanghai, where the Russian population by the mid-1930s numbered 25,000. As author Lynn Pan puts it, “dispossessed, deprived of citizenship, socially, they occupied a grey area between white expatriates and Chinese.” The men became bodyguards and riding instructors; the women hair-dressers, cabaret dancers and prostitutes, selling their services to all buyers, Chinese and Europeans alike.
In the present second wave of migration to the Far East, it is not only Vietnam which has received a massive influx of Russians. The number of Russian visitors to Thailand has increased from only a few hundred in the late 1980s to 24,000 in 1993, 31,000 the following year and nearly 50,000 in 1995. Entire Russian quarters have sprung up in the beach resort of Pattaya east of Bangkok. Officially, they are “tourists”. Most of them are small-scale merchants who buy electronics and textiles in Asia and sell them in Russia for a modest profit. But many remain behind in Thailand to run restaurants which serve borsch, shashlik and, when available, Russian caviar. Some talented young men find jobs as jazz musicians in clubs catering to the Bangkok’s affluent, new middle class. Many Russian girls work as entertainers in Bangkok’s numerous night clubs, or can be hired as “escorts”.
The police in Bangkok estimate that there are now at least 5,000 Russian prostitutes in Thailand, and the number is likely to increase the wealthier the country becomes. According to a Bangkok-based diplomat: “There’s no shortage of local prostitutes in Bangkok. But rich Thai, Chinese, Japanese and Korean businessmen prefer white girls. It gives them prestige.” The prices they charge – US$ 200-400 as opposed to US$ 20-30 for a Thai girl – contribute to their special value in terms of social status.
The girls are believed to have come to Asia through networks operated by the Russian mafia. But in the Far East as well as in North America and in Europe – and even in Moscow and Vladivostok – it is hard to say what the term “mafia” actually means in today’s chaotic Russian context. Stephen Handelman, a journalist who was Moscow Bureau Chief of The Toronto Star from 1987 to 1992 and an expert on Russian organised crime, estimates that total active gang membership today is actually not more than 100,000 people. Between 3,000 and 4,000 gangs operate all over Russia, which means that most of them are fairly small, most probably loosely organised and that their activities – as well as members – often overlap.
https://venture160.wordpress. com/2007/04/12/hunan-cadre-nailed-for-sex-with-russian-prostitute/
Hunan Cadre nailed for sex with Russian prostitute, Chinese netizens suspect it was a set-up
April 12, 2007
Chinese anti-corruption official sacked for Russian tryst
Apr 12, 2007, 11:27 GMT
Beijing – A Communist Party official who was a top provincial campaigner against corruption has been sacked after he was caught in a hotel room with a Russian prostitute, the party’s official newspaper said on Thursday.
Du Xiangcheng was expelled from the party and sacked from his post as deputy secretary of the party’s Commission for Discipline Inspection in the central province of Hunan, People’s Daily and other state media reported. Du was found ‘in a compromising situation with a Russian woman’ at a five-star hotel while he was in Beijing on official business last December.
The party’s central discipline commission has also opened an investigation into Du’s assets and financial dealings, the reports said. Du had cemented a reputation as a stalwart campaigner against corruption through a case against the head of discipline inspection in Hunan’s Changde city in 2004. ‘Cadres are only human and they have desires, so all leading cadres should be able to handle such tests,’ Du told the official Xinhua news agency during the investigation into the Changde case.
https://answers.yahoo. com/question/index?qid=20130910043341AAONaKJ
http://www.lifeinkorea. com/Boards/read.cfm?BoardID=19&MsgID=3259
https://answers.yahoo. com/question/index?qid=20110524054117AAufEJG
gravenimage says
Why is Muslim apologist Mazo endlessly off-topic spamming here about Russian prostitutes? I suppose this story about his coreligonists molesting women there got him all hot and bothered. *Ugh*.
Peggy says
In his twisted mind prostitution which is legal and consensual is bad but raping children and murdering all who are not your religion is good.
He’s not even worth a second reading this garbage.
Gee Zee says
Im moving to Russia!
Josh says
We would do the same thing here in Canada! As a matter of fact all of North America…European men have uteruses it seems. First things first, EU has to get rid of their stupid politicians!
Julie says
Where can I get a Russian mail-order husband? 😉
Peggy says
Let’s start a business of Russian mail-order husbands. We could make a killing.
citycat says
I don’t suppose the Russian women are easy meat either. I wonder if their verbosity helped to attract help, and also the community being more close knit than the divided by fear more western communities.
Gamaliel says
Why did Russia let them in? Did Russia let them in? That’s fishy especially when it comes to badly behaved immigrants that Norway is trying to get rid of.
Miao Zedong says
Sovjet Unition and today Russia did not “let them in”. It is still an “empire” in the sense that it’s made up of many ethnicities and regions not strictly part of the former russian mainland and within you can travel around almost freely.
gravenimage says
The article openly states that these “refugees” were kicked out of Norway for bad behavior–so they either entered Russia legally as asylum seekers, or else entered illegally.
These were not native Mohammedans from other parts of Russia.
winnind says
notice police dint arrest russians.
in eu police sissys will take pity on refugees and arrest eu citizens
dwight hogg says
It would be better to befriend Russia and make an alliance against the world wide Islamist threat – at least we could have some influence with Putin and make him more amenable to reason and cooperation. Every hour of every day there is some Islamist atrocity being committed.
duh_swami says
The Russian method of behavior modification,sometimes called, club therapy’, an idea who’s time has come. Isolate the offenders and open a can of whoopass, If western men won’t stand up for their women, they are not men, they are wimps..
.It the BF. Skinner method in reverse…Instead of ignoring the bad and rewarding the good, ignore the good (if you can find any) and give the bad behavior club therapy…Kuffar men need to start acting like men, and get yourself a club…
worldcitizen1919 says
Russia is giving the world a lesson in how to handle ‘infidels’
gravenimage says
More weirdness from “worldcitizen1919”. These Muslims did not get beaten up because they were “infidels”–one presumes he means non-Russian Orthodox–but because they were molesting women.
Rick says
This is great news, good to hear they got a severe beating for molesting the women. I guess Russia is the only country willing to defend there women.
berserker says
I wonder where these poor rapefugees find the money to go clubbing. If I were a refugee, I would be saving every penny. Considering that food and shelter are paid for by the government, all the money that they receive can be saved.
Manual Paleologos says
This is the way they MUST be treated; if not by the government, then by the Citizenry. It is all they understand. If they play nice, play nice. If they don’t put them in the hospital or the grave.
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
The hallmark of a civilized society is that it takes care of its women. Now, the Russians have struggled with the top hallmark of civilization, freedom, in the form of freedom of speech and the right to private property, but they are civilized.
The pushback I’ve predicted for years, self-defense by Infidels, has finally reared its head. To repeat my prediction, once Infidels begin defending themselves, they net effect will be to provide the media fodder to further establish the bona fide credentials of them as hapless victims. As Moslem aggression rises in Infidel countries, so too will their claim on victimhood, the essential ingredient of Legal Jihad and Media Jihad. So the Infidels are decades late in their response — a bit of self-defense up in Sweden, down in Germany, and now over in Russia — but oddly manhood and love of freedom are absent in England, where most still don’t know the story of Rotherham, a mass sex slavery crime that by rights should’ve resulted in white riots against South Asian pedophiles.
This cycle has been played for centuries in India, where after a period of years of harassment and temple burning, when the Hindus finally respond in kind they are castigated for their hatred and intolerance. You can fight back, but you will always lose. To wit: the attempted mass murder in Garland Texas and the pathetic lecture from news entertainment stars Bill O’Reilly and Laura Ingraham that the Moslems were stupidly provoked. Self-defense for us is a lose-lose game. Damned if you don’t, damned if you do.
rossbro says
Every neighborhood should protect its residents this way. Education must be served.
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
And our education system here has collapsed under the weight of the Deal With the Devil made decades ago between the Democrats and teacher unions. Costs have skyrocketed as test scores have plummeted. They can no longer teach the three Rs, but give ’em one thing: they can inculcate. Several years ago the St Paul School System ran a program where students for three days dressed up in Moslem garb and celebrated Islam. The curriculum made no mention of Kill them where you find them or Fight until there is no God but Allah or that the Holy Prophet burned a campfire through the chest of Kinana seeking the location of Khaibar’s gold. The local newspaper ran a big article featuring how this program was well intended and could help fight Islamophobia. So, as we get stupider, they flourish.
Steve009 says
If only the Brits would do the same.
I am sick of not being allowed to be British anymore
Matthieu Baudin says
Hello Steve 009, of course it’s not just the British who have lost their sense of identity and community. Let’s learn something from those who’ll stand up for their neighbours, like these Murmansk fellows, and rediscover who we once were and how to be courageous and genuinely caring, as you’ve suggested.
richard courtemanche says
Anybody said there was no fair justice in Russia?
Caroline says
This story has made my day. This is the ONLY thing the backward scum understand.
Paleologos says
Hooray !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Finally! … some men with balls!
R/
Paleologos
raar mens says
http://www.lemonde.fr/europe/article/2014/03/09/manifestations-pour-l-unite-ukrainienne-dimanche-a-kiev-et-en-crimee_4380046_3214.html
Angemon says
Janet says
LMAO! It’s about time someone stands up to these punks! They really truly believe that the law doesn’t apply to them! They need a good wake up call! And I guess they finally got one!!! Made my day!
Tradiguy says
Summary justice is what they need. The filth of their religion leaves them with no moral guides at all. These animals are mysogonists to a man – their holy book assures that – as they have no respect for their own women how can we expect them to have respect for western women. Well done Russia! You are my champions
kishke says
Kicked out of Norway, so they head to Russia? What’s that about? Why aren’t they sent back to where they came from?
Tommy Peters says
We all have an emotional equity in our first draft and, in particular when comes to protecting our women, the odds are it will not be perfect. But it is emotion and flaws that women seek in their men.
JAS says
I wish people would stop referring to these dark-age thugs as “refugees”… call them what they really are…MUSLIMS CRETINS! They are not immigrants, not refugees, not migrants, not displaced persons… they are simply MUSLIMS, with all the negativity that conveys! When our betters decided to invite them into our nations, nobody asked us if it was OK… and it isn’t !!!
justjane says
I’m still clapping.
Paw says
Yea, but what is the biggest muslim city in Europe? Moscow. How many muslims are there in RF? 11-12% at minimum.
Matthieu Baudin says
“…The refugees had previously been ordered to leave Norway for “bad behavior” and tried their luck in Russia. What they didn’t realize when they went out clubbing in Murmansk is that Russians have less tolerance when it comes to sexual assault on local women than other European countries…”
You have to pinch yourself to believe what you see. Do these supposed refugees think they’re on a 24hour, 7 days a week party, where they can ‘gatecrash’ their way through Europe? It’s refreshing to see that ‘group self defence’ is still alive in central and eastern Europe and that the flagrant molestation of women, children and also menfolk will not go unchecked in the streets.
Barry says
Oh those Ruskies!!!! You just gotta luv em. Now why the hell didn’t the German men do the same thing on New Years Eve in Cologne? Russia we salute you! It’s no wonder Obama is afraid of Putin he might get his ass handed to him on a silver platter- which is a fight that I’d actually pay to see.
Angemon says
Barry posted:
“Now why the hell didn’t the German men do the same thing on New Years Eve in Cologne? ”
Because feminism:
https://www.barritrad.com/swedish-feminists-please-dont-protect-us-get-raped-immigrants/
Linde Barrera says
I am so proud that the Russians have gone after these scumbag Islamists with impunity. And I really like Putin too.
Truth Seeker says
Proof that only in the absence (or at least drastic suppression/lack of) leftism, homosexuality, malevolent religions and political correctness can real men exist and thrive…. Good to see that there are still real men somewhere on this “gay earth” (penorcut) who will stand for what is right and defend what’s theirs. Hopefully the miniskirted/skinny jean pansies elsewhere will learn to do the same as well…
Daniel Triplett says
I just can’t get enough of this photograph above. It’s a great metaphor for the Counter-jihad at large.
I especially like the guy in the middle with the portable baseball bat. He’s all-in.
Even the guy on the left who looks to be wearing an eye patch with just one eye is in there getting a piece of the action.
Kuffar says
This makes me want to live in Russia…
Charlie Farley says
I may take up clubbing again
Christine Chiomento says
Seeing this made me smile, too, and give a sigh of relief, even though I don’t live in Russia. It’s just so refreshing to see men who genuinely care about women that they would actually stand up for them against those grubbing thug ‘refusegees’! I can only hope the same spirit of protection and honor raises up within American men if and when that type of ugly scenario begins to play out in this country!
Bryan says
God Bless the Russians! May islam is a sham…..a lie.
Peggy says
gravenimage says
February 8, 2016 at 11:21 pm
Daniel, Western Canadian is *not* a troll. He is one of the staunchest Anti-Jihadists here. If you disagree with him, fine–but to characterize him as a troll is utterly wrong.
=============================
Then why is he constantly attacking us? He has problems with some of us here and he keep attacking and trying to find anything he can turn into a weapon against us.
You know this is true.
This is not the way to treat fellow anti-jihadists. Yes, we we different ideas and we put them forward but this is a good thing. What does WC bring to the table except contempt for people who do.
He doesn’t explain what exactly he disagrees with and puts forward an alternative point of view. He only calls people names.
That does make him a troll. What else is a troll?
gravenimage says
Certainly, the main focus here is on opposing Jihad.
But there are a small handful of posters here who use this forum to tout racism, Fascism, or the oppression of authoritarian regimes.
Opposing these other threats to freedom is, I believe, quite valid–and very much in line with the basic mission of Jihad Watch.
The idea that standing up for freedom makes one a troll is very questionable–unless you believe Jihad Watch should instead become “Critics of Putin Watch”.
I’m sure you can develop such a site if that is what you want.
Here’s some inspirational material:
“Kremlin encouraging attacks on Vladimir Putin’s critics, activists say”
http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/03/europe/russia-putin-opposition-threats/
Peggy says
Angemon said:
First of all, if he’s so popular, why tamper with election? Second, this is no longer a matter of what’s good for them. Not with the tampering in other nation’s affairs – case in point, the annexation of Crimea. By your logic, one shouldn’t criticize Hitler – sure, he invaded Poland, but it’s up to the Germans to decide what’s good for them.
===========================
OK, if you are going to keep attacking Putin for meddling in other countries’ affairs then do so. What I don’t understand is why when I point out how the US is doing exactly the same thing and more, much more, you stay silent.
Any reason for that? Do you think that the US is doing a noble thing and Russia is just a bully?
My point is that you are a hypocrite.
So you way of getting out of responding to my statements is to continue to totally ignore what i say and keep diverting from the subject indefinitely.
All countries have only their own interests they care about. That is certain so why attack one on that and give another a free pass?
Having said that Putin is a much better man than Obama or people before him in recent past. Putin takes care of Russia and that makes him ok in my book. Obama is destroying the US and that makes him on the nose in my book. If you think that I am wrong on that do correct me but don’t start with irrelevant crap. It is very much relevant. That’s why Russian men can defend their women without fear of reprisal while western men have been castrated and the women are left to suffer.
You should not make this news a platform for your anti Putin rant but rather admit that he is doing the right thing by his own people. Don;t start with Hitler history and how the US fought Hitler. Russia did too as did the whole world except some Baltic countries, Croatia, Hungary, Bosnian Muslims and Albania.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“OK, if you are going to keep attacking Putin for meddling in other countries’ affairs”
OK, you’ve long past the “innocent naivete” threshold. You will not, because you can not, rebut what I said about Putin, so now you’re just dumping falsehoods on me. I DID NOT “attack Putin for meddling in other countries’ affairs”. I counter-argued your nonsense about letting the Russians choosing whoever they want by pointing out that Putin is interfering in other countries. The annexation of Crimea, the invasion of other countries’ air and sea space – you should know perfectly well Putin’s and RUssia’s track record as not to even try to go there.
“then do so.”
Stick to the facts, Peggy: you said something about Putin, I rebutted it. Trying to play the victim by pretending I came here out of nowhere to “attack” Putin will get you nowhere.
“What I don’t understand is why when I point out how the US is doing exactly the same thing and more, much more, you stay silent.”
Let’s see: I pointed out that Putin had Russian journalists and human rights activists and reporters arrested and killed. Is the US doing that? Even if that were the case, what does that have to do with Putin? That is what you have yet to explain.
“Any reason for that?”
Other than the reason I stated several times? The reason you needed to pretend it didn’t exist? Do I need to spell it out for you? W-H-A-T-E-V-E-R-I-T-I-S-Y-O-U-A-R-E-A-S-C-R-I-B-I-N-G-T-H-E-U-S-I-S-I-R-R-E-L-E-V-A-N-T-T-O-W-H-E-T-H-E-R-P-U-T-I-N-I-S-A-P-A-T-R-I-O-T-O-R-N-O-T.
“Do you think that the US is doing a noble thing and Russia is just a bully?
My point is that you are a hypocrite.”
And now you’re resorting to ad hominems – because you can’t refute what I said about Putin: he tampered with elections without even trying to be inconspicuous (99% in Chechnya? C’mon!), he had opposing political leaders, journalists and human rights activists arrested and killed, and he controls the state-controlled media.
Hardly the description of a “patriot”.
“So you way of getting out of responding to my statements is to continue to totally ignore what i say and keep diverting from the subject indefinitely.”
No, that’s what you’re doing. I pointed out that Putin tampered with elections without even trying to be inconspicuous (99% in Chechnya? C’mon!), he had opposing political leaders, journalists and human rights activists arrested and killed, and he controls the state-controlled media, and you went on an irrelevant rant about the US and the UK. Anyone can see I didn’t ignore what you wrote. I told you, several times, that your ramblings about the US and UK are irrelevant to what I said about Putin. You never addressed what I said nor explained how they are relevant to what I said about Putin. Go look up the definition of tu quoque.
“All countries have only their own interests they care about. That is certain so why attack one on that and give another a free pass?”
Says the person idolizing a murderous autocrat while pretending others do the same.
“Having said that Putin is a much better man than Obama or people before him in recent past. Putin takes care of Russia and that makes him ok in my book. ”
A murderer that’s holding on to power like a high-water sailor to an inflatable doll is OK by you? Got it. He’s taking care of Russia? How? By meddling in other countries’ affairs? Is he combating corruption and organized crime? Is he creating a Russia where people who hold opposing political views are free to speak out? I think not. Nay, I know not. But hey, if you think that killing people who disagree with you is “taking care of Russia”, good for you.
“Obama is destroying the US and that makes him on the nose in my book. ”
This coming from someone who accused me of “getting out of responding to [your] statements” and “keep diverting from the subject indefinitely”. How about you address what I said about Putin? Do you think it’s a good thing that he’s killing his fellow countrymen and women? Do you deny he’s doing so? Does that make him a “patriot”? I have no idea of what you think about that because all you do is telling how great Putin is (by your book) and how terrible Obama is. If you like Putin and Russia that much, move to Russia – put your money where your mouth is.
“ If you think that I am wrong on that do correct me but don’t start with irrelevant crap.”
That’s exactly what sparked this argument : me correcting you about Putin. And you have yet to address what I said about Putin tampering with elections and having journalists, opposing political leaders and human rights activists arrested and killed. Instead, you ranted on about the US, and accused me of starting with “irrelevant crap”.
Projection, thy name is Peggy!
“It is very much relevant.”
No, it isn’t.
“That’s why Russian men can defend their women without fear of reprisal while western men have been castrated and the women are left to suffer.”
“Fear of reprisal”? You mean, law enforcement ignores the law. Lawlessness is a good thing to have in a country according to you. Got it. And you’re linking said lawlessness to Putin.
“You should not make this news a platform for your anti Putin rant”
How very dismissive of you. It’s not that what I’m saying is wrong, it’s just that it’s an “anti Putin rant”. Putin killing his countrymen and women for disagreeing with him? You’re OK with that. Me saying that Putin is wrong in killing his countrymen and women for disagreeing with him? Nope, can’t have that in PeggyLand.
“but rather admit that he is doing the right thing by his own people. ”
You mean, oppressing and killing them, and making them look bad by association.
“Don;t start with Hitler history”
I made a perfectly fair point – your defense of Putin also defends Hitler’s invasion of Poland.
“and how the US fought Hitler. ”
Which they did, but you didn’t read it from me here.
“Russia did too as did the whole world except some Baltic countries, Croatia, Hungary, Bosnian Muslims and Albania.”
And you accuse me of “irrelevant crap”! Allow me to refresh your memory, young grasshopper: you wrote:
I replied:
What you’re saying about the US fighting Hitler, or Russia and some Baltic states, is irrelevant to the point I drew.
So, are you going to actually address what I said about Putin? Do you agree with him killing his own people for reporting the truth, or standing up for human rights, or having a different political opinion? Or are you going to keep dismiss what I say and repeat how much of a good person he is, and how Russia is benefiting from him?
P.S.: let me point out something for you:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/02/russia-muslim-migrants-grope-and-molest-women-get-beaten-up#comment-1375923
quotha raven says
To Angemon, who exhibits the patience of a saint and a scholar in his effort to communicate with Peggy:
Venn diagrams are still good. And AFTER fully digesting their significance, one might take a gander at this book:
Putin’s Kleptocracy: Who Owns Russia? by Karen Dawisha
I’d recommend this book to anyone sincerely wishing to get a “fuller” picture of Putin.That rules out some people, I guess.
Putin’s a CLASSIC, murderous despot with a history in the KGB that would curl anyone’s hair. Anyone’s except Peggy’s, perhaps.)))
Cheers!
quotha raven
Angemon says
Thanks QR, I’ll look into it. It’s strange – it doesn’t show up when searching directly from my Kindle. It’s available on Amazon, hardcover and softcover, but there seems to be no Kindle edition. I googled “Putin’s Kleptocracy kindle” and I managed to find the pages for the Kindle edition… except there’s no option to buy it. Th amazon UK website says “This title is not currently available for purchase”, but there’s no such warning in the international version. I’ll have to look in other digital book stores.
quotha raven says
Angemon – I found it on my desk top on regular Amazon.com Books, where it is today available in paperback and kindle…no hard covers. There are some used copies for sale there, too. and a good many excellent reviews that are edifying. Good luck! I mentioned this title because I thought it would be a valuable resource for anyone who, for example, imagines Putin to a patriot, a defender of the Russian people, a champion of human rights, liberty and free exchange of ideas..
Cheers!
quotha raven
quotha raven says
Angemon – Are you in the UK??? I thought you were in the USA.qr
Angemon says
🙂 No, born and raised in Europe. Not the UK, though. I often buy stuff from amazon.co.uk. Usually stuff that isn’t shipped to Europe from sellers in amazon.com or stuff with high tariffs and customs.
Peggy says
Angemon calm down you’re going to get a stroke.
Shouting in your previous post and then spelling it out shows just how out of control you really are.
My reply to you was “much like in the west”. By that statement I did acknowledge that there is corruption in Russia. Newsflash, there is corruption in every country including the US. That was all i was saying.
As far as stealing elections etc Putin has just as much credibility as Bush then.
All i am trying to point out is that stop throwing stones when you live in a glasshouse.
You are so determined to paint Putin as a monster that you forget to look in your own backyard. Without using the same yardstick to evaluate our own leaders we will never make any changes and will never achieve democracy. We don’t enjoy democracy no matter how much you pretend we do.
Why are you so hostile to me when we are on the same side and that is fighting jihad. If Putin plays even a small part in that we should encourage it and not tear him down.
Maybe you are just not rational.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“Angemon calm down you’re going to get a stroke.”
You’d do better if you worried more about your incapability to stay on topic and use facts and logic to discuss rather than fantasizing about my health.
“Shouting in your previous post and then spelling it out shows just how out of control you really are.”
See above – I spelled it out because you’ve shown to be incapable to process phrases and words.
“My reply to you was “much like in the west”.”
First of all, that’s the first time you’re saying that. Anyone can use the “Search” function of their browser and confirm it. Second, that is as much of a reply to me as “the sky is red and the grass is white” is a reply to someone asking “Excuse me, do you have the time?”. You claimed that Putin is a patriot. I disagreed with that, I explained why, and you have to address the points I made. Would a patriot kill people and tamper with elections to hold to power?
“By that statement”
You mean, the one you made on your last post and that you’re pretending to have made earlier.
“I did acknowledge that there is corruption in Russia.”
See above. In any case, the matter here is not corruption in Russia, it’s the actions of Putin and whether he deserves to be called a patriot or not. I say he doesn’t, and that he deserves to rot in jail for crimes against Russia and the Russian people.
“Newsflash, there is corruption in every country including the US. That was all i was saying.”
Again, you’re trying to evade the issue. Why exactly do you consider Putin to be a patriot? How is he keeping his country safe? You have yet to explain that. My guess is that you can’t – it’s one thing to make a blanket statement, it’s another to actually back it up.
“As far as stealing elections etc Putin has just as much credibility as Bush then.”
That’s liberal nonsense. Do you acknowledge that Putin tampered with elections? Yes or no? Betcha you can’t say it without resorting to a red herring and dragging a non-Russian leader into the mix.
“All i am trying to point out is that stop throwing stones when you live in a glasshouse.”
Where exactly do I live? And how does that matter to me rebutting your nonsense about Putin being a patriot? If all you have it tu-quoquery, stick to your day job…
“You are so determined to paint Putin as a monster that you forget to look in your own backyard.”
Again, exactly where is my backyard located? And how does that relate to what I said a bout Putin? Either Putin tampered with ellections and had political opponents, journalists and human rights activists arrested and killed or he didn’t. I say he did, and you’re been unable to rebut that. Hence why you need to talk about by alleged glasshouse and backyard.
Anyway, refresh my memory: did I praised Obama, Cameron or Bush here, or presented them as patriots?
“Without using the same yardstick to evaluate our own leaders we will never make any changes and will never achieve democracy.”
Do I need to spell it out for you again? We’re talking about Putin here, and what he did. You made an assertion about him. I countered with facts. Talking about other leaders adds nothing to the discussion, no matter how much you want to pretend it does.
“We don’t enjoy democracy no matter how much you pretend we do.”
What does that have to do with Putin? Nothing. More irrelevant red herrings from someone who argued herself into a corner.
“Why are you so hostile to me when we are on the same side and that is fighting jihad.”
Is that supposed to be a question? In any case, anyone reading our exchange can see who was hostile to begin with.
“If Putin plays even a small part in that we should encourage it and not tear him down.”
“Say what you want about Mussolini, at least the trains ran on time!”.
Peggy, that sentence alone should disqualify you from being in the CJ. The core of the CJ is the defense of Western values like the equality of all before the law, freedom of speech or freedom of conscience. You are literally, not figuratively, saying that it’s OK to live in a regime that denies those values to people, just as long it’s not *another* regime that denies those values to people.
“Maybe you are just not rational.”
Says the person who has refused to acknowledge, let alone respond, to the facts I brought to the table because they don’t fit her mold. Seriously, Miss Peggy, even for a “Lol, I troll you!!!” post that was exceedingly weak.
So, are you going to actually address what I said about Putin? Do you agree with him killing his own people for reporting the truth, or standing up for human rights, or having a different political opinion?
Daniel Triplett says
@Peggy & Angemon
I like and respect you both, learning from each of you often. You have intelligent, true, and relevant insights. I don’t wish to interfere with or try to break-up your lively and informative debate. At least you’re keeping it civil, with no name-calling and other such immaturity, as one or two others on this thread have done.
So please continue the debate if you choose–not my business, nor do you require my interference as referee. The more you talk, the more everyone can benefit from your ideas.
Perhaps we can all agree though that aside from Abraham Lincoln, very few Heads of State in human history are candidates for Sainthood. Putin and Obama are no exception (especially Obama). I’m praying for Donald Trump to lead our nation, and for Jesus Christ to help guide his heart and soul for a decisive, swift victory in this Islamic War. But Lord knows DJT has his share of skeletons too. I happen to share his initials and am hoping just a bit of his genius rubs off on me, but I’m no Saint either.
Can we all agree that WWIII is upon us? The Muslims started it and have already defined the opponents for us as Muslims v All.
Do we want to fight WWIII against 1.6 Billion Muslims AND Russia? Of course not. So perhaps we should focus more on the good in each other, instead of the differences.
And while Americans are more similar to the UK, French, and Israeli people, than we are to the Chinese, Indians, and Russians, all of us must be in this together to win it. We need not become their twin, nor they ours in order to eliminate the Islamic threat together.
Let’s stay fraternally strong. We have a yuge fight ahead of us.
Angemon says
I don’t think Putin is an ally to the West, Daniel. Nor is he a patriot. I think he’s an autocrat running the show to benefit himself and his cronies while blaming “the West” for his shortcomings and the (predictable) disastrous results of his decisions.
Peggy says
Blaming the west you say. The west deserves to be blamed. There is an agreement between the west (US in particular) and Russia that once Soviet Union was dismantled NATO will not expand into ex Soviet Union or Baltic countries.
It isn’t Russia who spat on that agreement but the west. NATO is continuing to expand into countries they have an agreement with Russia not to so yes, Putin is right to blame the west for tensions now.
Making an agreement with the west seems not to be worth the paper it’s written on.
I know you will deny this and go into defensive mode but please don’t be blinded by what our media tells you. It’s difficult to see the wrong in us but in order to see clearly we must confront our own deficiencies. We have to be honest with ourselves too.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“Blaming the west you say.”
No, what I said was that Putin blames the West for his (Putin’s) shortcomings and his (Putin’s) blunders. A political opponent of Putin is murdered? Putin blames the CIA and excuses himself with a conspiracy.
“The west deserves to be blamed.”
Are you suggesting that Putin is right in using the West as a scapegoat for all of his (Putin’s) shortcomings and failures (all along while lining his pockets and the pockets of his cronies at the expense of the Russian people) or did you just scanned my post for keywords, found “blame” and “West” and are now running alone in your own special world, without trying to address the point I made?
“There is an agreement between the west (US in particular) and Russia that once Soviet Union was dismantled NATO will not expand into ex Soviet Union or Baltic countries.
It isn’t Russia who spat on that agreement but the west. NATO is continuing to expand into countries they have an agreement with Russia not to so yes, Putin is right to blame the west for tensions now.
Making an agreement with the west seems not to be worth the paper it’s written on.”
The latter, then.
“I know you will deny this and go into defensive mode”
No, I’ll just point out it’s irrelevant to the way Putin treats his people. Which is, spoiler alert, why you started bickering with me in the first place – because I challenged your description of Putin as a “patriot”. A patriot would do what’s best to his people, not use and abuse his people for his own personal gain.
“but please don’t be blinded by what our media tells you.”
Are you trying to tell me Putin never blamed the death of a political opponent on a CIA conspiracy? Or that he never had reporters, political opponents or human rights activists arrested and killed?
“It’s difficult to see the wrong in us but in order to see clearly we must confront our own deficiencies. We have to be honest with ourselves too.”
Funny coming from you, since you have yet to be honest and acknowledge any of Putin’s wrongdoings, let alone confront them. “A patriot protecting his people”, you say? Tell that to the thousands of Russian girls victims of sex slavery rings, many of them ending up (ending in more than one way) in muslim countries.
Daniel Triplett says
@Angemon
pa·tri·ot
ˈpātrēət/
noun
1.
a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.
2.
trademark
an automated surface-to-air missile designed for preemptive strikes.
By definition #1, Putin is a patriot.
Although not proven, there seems to be evidence Putin can be dangerous, if not lethal to Russian dissidents. Yes, that’s disturbing.
When considering rampant American D voter fraud, suppression of political opponents using the IRS as a weapon, lying to the American People, scapegoating and imprisoning “video man” for Benghazi, arming Iran with nukes, allowing fat boy Kim Jong Un to continue with developing Hydrogen Bombs and ICBM technology, and on and on…
Seems to me the only difference between Putin and Ohammad is that BO hasn’t actually killed any of his American political opponents (that we know of).
More importantly, there’s no doubt in my mind that Putin loves Russia, while Obama (via Moochelle) openly admits that he wasn’t proud of America *until Americans finally came to their senses and put him in charge if the whole cheese.*
Obama is no patriot. But by definition, Putin is.
But let’s assume all the faults you describe of Putin are true. Do the 85% of Russians who approve of him have a gun pointed at their heads when asked that question?
Seriously, did you watch the three videos I linked above about Putin?
I did.
And my impression of him changed significantly afterward.
You’re right, Putin is no ally to the West, but considering the way just about every American politician, except DJT, speaks about Russia, can you blame him for being suspicious and on guard about us?
But the more important thing I gleaned in examining those videos, and I hope you will too if you take the time to watch them (it’s worth it), is that Putin isn’t hostile to the United States, and he realizes that with non-hostile American leadership, America and Russia can work together to make the World a much better place. In other words, he seeks no confrontation with America, and he’d be open to an alliance with us.
Just look at all the clowns running for POTUS right now shooting their foolish pie-holes off about how “We need a strong American President who will stand up to Vladimir Putin!”
What do you think Putin and the Russians feel when they hear that kind of rhetoric from our leaders? Do you think that makes them want to trust us and tell the Iranians to fuck off?
DJT is the ONLY candidate not using such counterproductive rhetoric. And this hasn’t gone unnoticed by Putin:
https://youtu.be/5xwuVjgMfU4
You’re no idiot Angemon, and have been studying the Islamic problem for a long time. Do you see a scenario where the Kaffir can eliminate the Islamic threat permanently, erasing Dar al-Islam from the globe WITHOUT an alliance with Russia?
I don’t.
Angemon says
Daniel Triplett posted:
“By definition #1, Putin is a patriot. ”
Definition #1 presupposes that Putin has the best interests of Russia at heart. There is nothing to back that assertion. While he’s in power, he’s safe. What do you think will happen to him if he loses his position of power? A comfortable retirement? I think not. Putin *needs* to shout “Western aggression” to justify an aggressive foreign policy that distracts the Russian people from the state their country is. Who is he trying to defend Russia from, exactly? Georgia? Ukraine? One would expect that a patriot would respect other countries and their borders, not try to conquer them.
There’s a reason to why former members of the Warsaw Pact made a run for NATO – they don’t want to have Russian tanks in their cities.
“When considering rampant American D voter fraud, suppression of political opponents using the IRS as a weapon, lying to the American People, scapegoating and imprisoning “video man” for Benghazi, arming Iran with nukes, allowing fat boy Kim Jong Un to continue with developing Hydrogen Bombs and ICBM technology, and on and on…
Seems to me the only difference between Putin and Ohammad is that BO hasn’t actually killed any of his American political opponents (that we know of).”
C’mon, Daniel, that’s a textbook tu quoque. In any case, I’m not arguing that Obama is a patriot. I never have. In fact, I’ve argued many times that Obama doesn’t have the best interests of America or the American people at heart. It’s a moot point, anyway, Obama will leave soon. The same can’t be said about Putin.
“More importantly, there’s no doubt in my mind that Putin loves Russia”
We’ll have to agree to disagree on that. At best, he loved the USSR, and he’d loe to have it back.
“But let’s assume all the faults you describe of Putin are true. Do the 85% of Russians who approve of him have a gun pointed at their heads when asked that question? ”
Not that I know of – it’s just people asking other people on the street what they think of Putin. And I bet that in Russia today it takes a lot of courage to tell a stranger they’re not supportive of the man running the show. Still, 15% did so nonetheless. I doubt those numbers reflect Putin’s actual approval ratings.
“You’re right, Putin is no ally to the West, but considering the way just about every American politician, except DJT, speaks about Russia, can you blame him for being suspicious and on guard about us?”
I believe that Bush stated Putin to be “very straightforward and trustworthy”, did he not? Plus, there’s the whole way how Russia, despite being neither an industrial power (well, not by G7 standards of the time) or a democracy was admitted into the G7. And recently, Obama scrapped the missile defense complex in Poland. Russia had plenty of goodwill from the West in the wake of the fall of the Berlin wall. There’s no way Putin is simply reacting to perceived Western prejudice.
“But the more important thing I gleaned in examining those videos, and I hope you will too if you take the time to watch them (it’s worth it), is that Putin isn’t hostile to the United States, and he realizes that with non-hostile American leadership, America and Russia can work together to make the World a much better place. In other words, he seeks no confrontation with America, and he’d be open to an alliance with us.”
Putin is a very intelligent man. No, he’s more than that. He’s an expert at reading people and figuring what makes them tick. Maybe he got that while working in the KGB, or maybe rose in the KBG hierarchy because of it. He’s also very good at exploiting perceived weaknesses. And he, like the leaders of Iran, has current Western leaders figured out, much like Hitler had Chamberlain figured out. They will go to any length for a peaceful solution. He can push, and push because he knows Europe doesn’t want another great war.
“You’re no idiot Angemon, and have been studying the Islamic problem for a long time. Do you see a scenario where the Kaffir can eliminate the Islamic threat permanently, erasing Dar al-Islam from the globe WITHOUT an alliance with Russia?
I don’t.”
I don’t see such a possible scenario without Russia, or UK, or France, or any other powerful nation. The questions are, a) who gets to choose the terms, and b) can we trust Putin enough to have him as an ally? As things are, it can’t be done. Not with the mess in Ukraine. It would be making a deal with the devil.
Angemon says
Also, since you mentioned Trump, I think this deserves mentioning:
http://takimag.com/article/future_letter_from_a_socialist_to_president_trump_gavin_mcinnes/print
🙂
Daniel Triplett says
I don’t get it my Friend. It’s this just satire, or a Sanders ad, or a Cruz ad?
Are you saying you’re a Socialist Democrat (or Democratic Socialist, as Sanders prefers to fool us)?
Who are you supporting to be our next POTUS?
FWIW, I’ve voted 100% R my entire life, except for Ross Perot when I was a young idiot…a vote I will shamefully regret for Eternity.
Angemon says
It’s satire mocking Democrats.
Peggy says
Angemon says
February 14, 2016 at 6:46 pm
It’s satire mocking Democrats.
========================
Not about to answer the other questions I see.
Now how about answering any of his questions?
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“Not about to answer the other questions I see.
Now how about answering any of his questions?”
Here ya go, sweetheart:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/02/russia-muslim-migrants-grope-and-molest-women-get-beaten-up/comment-page-1#comment-1378943
Now, how about you let me decide in which order I respond to posts? Or better yet, how about you start answering the questions and points I made to you about Putin? That would be great.
Peggy says
I don’t see such a possible scenario without Russia, or UK, or France, or any other powerful nation. The questions are, a) who gets to choose the terms, and b) can we trust Putin enough to have him as an ally? As things are, it can’t be done. Not with the mess in Ukraine. It would be making a deal with the devil.
========================
Angemon, when are you going to accept that others don’t see Putin as a threat?
All you said previously to DT is your OPINION. You have not shown any proof of Putin not having Russia’s interests at heart or what motivates him. This is what you think only. You are only making statements which you cannot back up with fact.
You said:
“Not that I know of – it’s just people asking other people on the street what they think of Putin. And I bet that in Russia today it takes a lot of courage to tell a stranger they’re not supportive of the man running the show. ”
——-
How do you know that? Have you been asking people in Russia what they think of Putin and they were too scared to tell you? If 15% can say it openly why not the rest?
More,
“More importantly, there’s no doubt in my mind that Putin loves Russia”
We’ll have to agree to disagree on that. At best, he loved the USSR, and he’d loe to have it back.
====================
Again, how do you know that? I think this is just you thinking it. What is it based on?
All I see is a lot of opinion here but really where is the supporting evidence?
Peggy says
I strongly agree with all you have said.
We all need to band together to fight this evil called Islam. Whether we share same political views or not we are all infidels to them and therefore allies. The only way to defeat this 1.6 billion strong enemy is to become allies.
The US and Soviet Union didn’t share the same politics but eventually had to ally in order to defeat Nazis.
Soviet Union was a lot more alien to American ways than Russia who has returned to Christianity is now so why can’t we work together again?
It’s irrelevant what the popular opinion of Putin is. Fact is we need him just as we need China and India to defeat this horror.
I despise Obama because he is betraying the US and the west.
I just wish we could all accept that running each other down and badmouthing other leaders who are vital in our fight is not good for anyone. Time to put all this aside and work together.
Peggy says
After all you said, Angemon didn’t address one point you made.All he did was go straight into Putin bashing. He obviously doesn’t think he can get away with picking your points out and taking them in another direction.
No doubt he will be more than happy to reply to this one with his usual enthusiasm.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“After all you said, Angemon didn’t address one point you made.”
This is funny, coming from you.
“All he did was go straight into Putin bashing.”
Making valid criticism of Putin = “Putin bashing”. I see you’re familiar with newspeak…
“He obviously doesn’t think he can get away with picking your points out and taking them in another direction.”
Are you
a) a telepath
or
b) ascribing me a motivation without a shred of evidence to support it?
“No doubt he will be more than happy to reply to this one with his usual enthusiasm.”
Of course – I need to remind you I have yet to hear from you on the criticism I made regarding Putin – for the nth time, shouting “b-b-b-ut the West!!!” is irrelevant.
Peggy says
Angemon said:
“My reply to you was “much like in the west”.”
First of all, that’s the first time you’re saying that. Anyone can use the “Search” function of their browser and confirm it.
You are wrong Angemon. Here is where I said it and you even replied to it.
Angemon says
February 9, 2016 at 5:12 pm
Peggy posted:
“If he was doing that he wouldn’t enjoy the support of more than 80% of his people.”
If he was oppressing his population and persecuting his critics he wouldn’t have 80%+ of support you say? Surely you understand the flaw in your logic.
Russia is a DINO (Democracy In Name Only) – there’s one big party , state-controled media, and shutting down of independent media outlets
===========================
Much like the west, especially the US and UK don’t you think?
Anyway, I am really fed up with going in circles with you.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“Anyway, I am really fed up with going in circles with you.”
No, you’re the one going in circles. Whenever someone says something that’s remotely critic of Putin you circle your wagons and fire irrelevant nonsense.
Peggy says
Of course – I need to remind you I have yet to hear from you on the criticism I made regarding Putin – for the nth time, shouting “b-b-b-ut the West!!!” is irrelevant.
Reply
======================
No it’s not.
What is relevant here is that no matter what you think of a leader it doesn’t disqualify him/her from doing a good job of fighting ISIS.
The discussion is about Putin doing a much better job of fighting the Islamists than Obama is.
You went on to say how Putin is not a good guy and I said much like the west meaning the US government etc. So if you only want to discuss Putin’s shortcomings it looks like you think he is not worthy of taking up the fight which makes US government even less worthy.
Who is going to take up the fight then? You have to use the same criteria for evaluating Obama as you do Putin which leaves nobody worthy of taking up the fight.
That is my point which makes it relevant.
So if you wish to reply to this please address the issue of why you went on to familiarize us with Putin’s faults. Is it to say that he is so bad that he has no place fighting evil? What relevance to this topic is Putin’s character?
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“No it’s not.”
Yes, it is. If you call Putin a patriot and I say he isn’t, and why he isn’t, ranting about the West adds nothing to the conversation.
“What is relevant here is that no matter what you think of a leader it doesn’t disqualify him/her from doing a good job of fighting ISIS.”
Changing the goalposts again, Peggy? We’re talking about Putin being a patriot, not ISIS in Syria. Or is bombing muslims all it takes to draw fanatical zealotry and undying admiration from you?
“The discussion is about Putin doing a much better job of fighting the Islamists than Obama is.”
No, it’s about whether or not Putin is a patriot. Since you’re desperately trying to switch the focus away from it, it’s safe to assume you can’t argue with what I said.
“You went on to say how Putin is not a good guy”
Quite the understatement. Of course, you just can’t bring yourself up to say that Putin is an autocrat who had political dissidents killed and blames the West for well, everything – like, for example, stating that the FIFA scandal is a US conspiracy.
“and I said much like the west meaning the US government etc. ”
Like I said, that’s irrelevant to whether or not Putin is a “good guy”.
“So if you only want to discuss Putin’s shortcomings”
You mean, if I want to stick to the issue? Yes. Yes, I do. It’s you that’s flapping around and throwing strawmen and red herrings around.
“it looks like you think he is not worthy of taking up the fight which makes US government even less worthy.”
Speaking of strawmen and red herrings (not to mention alleged telepathy and ascribing of falsehoods)…
“Who is going to take up the fight then? You have to use the same criteria for evaluating Obama as you do Putin which leaves nobody worthy of taking up the fight.”
Congratulations, now you’ve gone full retard!
“That is my point which makes it relevant.”
No. Your “point” is the stupidest logical train-wreck I’ve had the displeasure to read this year, made even worse because it’s not relevant to the matter at hand.
Do you, Peggy, consider Putin to be a patriot? If so, why? And how do you account for Putin’s persecution of rivals, reporters and human rights activists, favoring of cronies and imperial expansionism in your “patriot” portrait of him?
“So if you wish to reply to this please address the issue of why you went on to familiarize us with Putin’s faults.”
Because, as it should be very clear by now, those faults – which you have yet to acknowledge – prove that he’s not a patriot. He’s just a autocrat saying whatever he needs to say to hold on to power.
“Is it to say that he is so bad that he has no place fighting evil? What relevance to this topic is Putin’s character?”
Shifting goalposts again, Peggy? The whole issue IS Putin’s character and how it fits in your “patriot” portrayal of him. The rest is just you desperately trying to avoid discussing that.
Peggy says
@ Angemon,
It’s no use talking to you. You obviously have one track mind here and you refuse to see what the issue is about.
I just told you. I don’t give a damn about Putin’s character because it’s not relevant to the topic and discussing it with you is pointless because we don’t agree with what that is.
I am not the only one who thinks that Putin is a patriot but I don’t see you choking them with your I am right and you are wrong.
Let me answer it for you. I don’t think Putin is a good guy. No politician is because good guys cannot survive in politics today, but, Putin is not a monster either. He has Russia’s best interests at heart. That’s why I admire him. I wish we had leaders like him. I don’t consider him a tyrant so yes I would love my PM to be as strong in defending my country instead of selling us out to Islam.
I would love my PM to join Russia in bombing ISIS.
Putin is a tyrant in our eyes not mine.
Do you honestly believe that the US wouldn’t kill anyone who threatens their position? Think back about Bradley Manning. I know he, sorry now Chelsea is alive but in bad shape and her fate unknown. How about Edward Snowden. Anyone who wants to tell them truth is hunted. How many perished because of some truth that needed to be hidden? How many secret prisons around the world and I don’t think they are only for Jihadists.
Sorry, but I can’t share your trust in our government like you do. They have shown they are not above stealing elections either.
So you see we seem to be miles apart in our opinion of Putin and Obama. If we live long enough maybe we will get to see just exactly how many people died because of Obama.
Don’t forget our Julian Assange too. US wants him badly.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“@ Angemon,
It’s no use talking to you. You obviously have one track mind here and you refuse to see what the issue is about.”
First of all, that is hilarious, coming from you. Second, you don’t immediately stop posting, therefore it’s safe to assume you don’t really believe what you just wrote.
“I just told you. I don’t give a damn about Putin’s character because it’s not relevant to the topic and discussing it with you is pointless because we don’t agree with what that is.”
No, Putin’s character is the core issue because we’re discussing your classification of him as a “patriot”. Of course, since you can’t deny what I wrote about him, you’re trying your best to lead me by the nose into discussing something else. Unfortunately for you, Miss Peggy, I have years of experience with muslims doing just that when the topic of muhammad’s character and actions comes up, so you’re out of luck.
“I am not the only one who thinks that Putin is a patriot”
Appeal to numbers is a logical fallacy.
“but I don’t see you choking them with your I am right and you are wrong.”
What a bald-faced LIE. On a previous post I pointed out to you my response to Daniel, where I argue against his argument that Putin is a patriot. On another topic, you accused me of “hating” Putin because I told someone else pretty much what I told you. And yet, you have the gall to come here and try to play the victim. Like I said, you’re desperately trying to change the focus of the conversation. And, like I said, it’s not going to work.
“Let me answer it for you. I don’t think Putin is a good guy. No politician is because good guys cannot survive in politics today, but, Putin is not a monster either. He has Russia’s best interests at heart.”
So your reply to me is pretty much repeating the same thing I argued against to begin with while acknowledging I’m right. Cognitive dissonance dully noted.
“That’s why I admire him.”
This proving bin Laden right.
“I wish we had leaders like him. I don’t consider him a tyrant”
I bet if he wasn’t bombing ISIS in Syria (while ignoring Chechnya) you’d be singing to a different tune. That, or if you had to live in Russia. Maybe things wouldn’t be so bad for a sycophant, but I’m wandering how long you could keep telling yourself “at least he’s keeping my country safe” while your refrigerator was empty and dissidents were dying. “Yes, that FIFA scandal is a US conspiracy – damn Yankees, always trying to out us down…”
What do you think Ukrainians think of him? Or Georgians? Or anyone living in former members of the Warsaw Pact who went to NATO for help? Because I’m willing to bet, bombing ISIS or not, they don’t share your opinion of him. Of course, you know better than them, right? F*** them and their reasons – Putin is bombing ISIS in Syria (despite having a muslim insurgency in Chechnya) and therefore he has the best interests of his country at hand. Even though he got involved in Ukraine and, which resulted in sanctions that crippled his economy – but, you know, bombing ISIS in Syria while ignoring Chechnya = defending his country, so what matters if Ukranians die, and Russians starve? He’s killing them muslims, god damned!
“so yes I would love my PM to be as strong in defending my country instead of selling us out to Islam.”
Would you be OK with selling you and your country to something other than islam? Because I wouldn’t. I don’t want me or my country to be sold to anyone or anything. I value freedom, therefore I will fight to keep it instead of trading it for a false sense of security.
“I would love my PM to join Russia in bombing ISIS.
Putin is a tyrant in our eyes not mine.”
See above.
“Do you honestly believe that the US wouldn’t kill anyone who threatens their position? Think back about Bradley Manning. I know he, sorry now Chelsea is alive but in bad shape and her fate unknown. How about Edward Snowden. Anyone who wants to tell them truth is hunted.”
Nice false equivalence, comrade. We’re talking about reporters and political opponents, not people who hand out the names of American agents to America’s enemies. Speaking of which, what do YOU think Putin would do someone who revealed state secrets and the names of Russian agents worldwide? Because I’m certain that they wouldn’t be living now. They would have died slow, painful deaths.
But, you know, a reporter doing his job, a turncoat handing out confidential documents – same thing to you, right?
“How many perished because of some truth that needed to be hidden? How many secret prisons around the world and I don’t think they are only for Jihadists.”
Ah, so you’d be OK if only jihadis were kept in those prisons. I’m guessing Snowden and Chelsea would disagree with you there.
“Sorry, but I can’t share your trust in our government like you do.”
That’s OK, since we’re probably citizens of different countries.
“They have shown they are not above stealing elections either.”
Let’s see: two or more parties warring for one seat, one party using state power to ensure it stays in power. Yup, totally valid comparison… /sarc. off
“So you see we seem to be miles apart in our opinion of Putin and Obama.”
What a despicable thing to say. It’s very telling of how intellectually and morally bankrupt you are. Show me where I support Obama. You can’t, because I don’t. I bet the closest you can get is running some sort of insane troll logic saying something like “Putin is fighting ISIS and Obama isn’t, therefore if you’re against Putin you’re pro-Obama”.
“If we live long enough maybe we will get to see just exactly how many people died because of Obama.”
Again, when did I defend Obama? I didn’t, but you need to divert attention away from Putin’s autocracy.
“Don’t forget our Julian Assange too. US wants him badly.”
Since you’re bringing him up for no apparent reason, how do you think he’d be faring if Obama were Putin? Do you think he’d still be drawing breath? Or do you think he’d have died under suspicious circumstances?
Angemon says
You know what? Since you brought it up, let’s ride your Assange comparison all the way to the end. The US is after him and he in London, in the Ecuadorian embassy, right? What happened to Alexander Litvinenko when he sought asylum in the UK? Which of them is alive and breathing and which of them died under suspicious circumstances? And what do you make of it?
Peggy says
“Let me answer it for you. I don’t think Putin is a good guy. No politician is because good guys cannot survive in politics today, but, Putin is not a monster either. He has Russia’s best interests at heart.”
So your reply to me is pretty much repeating the same thing I argued against to begin with while acknowledging I’m right.
==========================
What I said is my opinion and I will continue to say it because I firmly believe in what I said. Naturally, my answer will be that every time. Just because you argue against it doesn’t make you right. Are you going to keep repeating this until you have me convinced? Not going to happen. I have not acknowledged that you are right.
When I said that I didn’t think Putin was a nice guy but not a tyrant you argued that I let him off too lightly so no, I don’t accept that you are right just because I repeated that Putin is not a nice guy.
I have never said he was nice in the first place. I did has he is not a tyrant and is a patriot.
Let’s get this straight. I really don’t care what you think of Putin so why do you feel this need to browbeat me into thinking like you?
Not happening.
You say a lot but you don’t show any evidence of what you say. Tell us where is the evidence his that over 80% of Russian are scared to go against him. Show us where he is ruining Russia into the ground. Tell us how many people has he ordered to be killed and where is that evidence.
Don’t make statements and keep shoving them down our throats but not produce any evidence of it.
I have asked you for this before. I don’t need to back what I say because I am not accusing him of anything or making a statement that Russia is ruined because of him.
You are making that statement so either put up or shut up.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“What I said is my opinion and I will continue to say it because I firmly believe in what I said. ”
Right, and no amount of facts will change that it. What do you think of Putin stating that the FIFA scandal is a US conspiracy? Or how about RT, a Russian state-funded channel speculating that America was behind last year’s Ebola epidemic? Or the persecution of political dissidents?
“Naturally, my answer will be that every time.”
Are you that daft? Or do you think one will follow for that blatant sleight-of-hand? I’m not asking you what you think of Putin, am I? I pointed out facts and instances that should prove, beyond any reasonable doubt, that Putin does NOT have the bet interests of Russia or the Russian people at heart. Ergo, he’s not a patriot. Repeating what you think of him DOES NOT address what I said. Repeating that he’s a patriot doesn’t make him one. Actions speak louder than words, Peggy, and if your portrayal of Putin as a patriot is simply a matter of “belief” (faith), then things don’t look good for you.
“Just because you argue against it doesn’t make you right.”
That’s right, I am arguing, in the sense I’m using logic and facts to explain my stance. While that by itself doesn’t make me right, you have yet to present counter-arguments to what I said. You have, like you just admitted, repeated the same things over and over, like a zealot with a religious dogma.
“Are you going to keep repeating this until you have me convinced?”
Start by addressing what I actually said and we’ll work from there.
“Not going to happen. I have not acknowledged that you are right.”
No, you simply refuse to face what I say and instead opt to go on irrelevant matters. Do notice, miss Peggy, that not acknowledging I am right is not the same as me not being right, and you have yet to make a case for Putin being a patriot.
“When I said that I didn’t think Putin was a nice guy but not a tyrant you argued that I let him off too lightly”
No, I argued that you were understating things. You’re avoiding getting to specific cases because you know that if you do get around to discussing specifics you can not defend your assertion that Putin is a patriot.
“so no, I don’t accept that you are right just because I repeated that Putin is not a nice guy.”
See above.
“I have never said he was nice in the first place.”
Neither have I. Hooray for strawmen!!!
“I did has he is not a tyrant and is a patriot.”
Repetition, repetition, repetition. We get it – Putin being a patriot is like a religious dogma to you. No one is allowed to question it, lest you be faced with uncomfortable truths. Again, repeating your point about how you think Putin to be a patriot doesn’t actually makes him a patriot. Does he have the best interests of Russia and the Russian people at heart? I maintain he doesn’t. He’s interested in keeping the status quo and the current power structure, regardless of what that means to his nation and people, which are simply tools he uses to further his agenda. Your turn, Peggy – start fleshing out your reasons to say he’s a patriot. No, wait – he’s bombing ISIS in Syria, therefore… patriot? Do you really not see the parallel with Germany’s intervention in the Spanish Civil War? Do you really think Russia can afford a war in Syria right now?
“Let’s get this straight. I really don’t care what you think of Putin”
You do, otherwise we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
“so why do you feel this need to browbeat me into thinking like you?
”
Wrong again, Miss. 3rd-rate-telepath. If anyone is trying to browbeat anyone into thinking like them that would be you, with your tu-quoque about the West, and your attempts at public shaming. I’m challenging your presentation of Putin as a patriot, and you have yet to address the points I raised, let alone defending your position. Why exactly do you think that Putin has the best interests of the Russian people at heart?
“Not happening.
You say a lot but you don’t show any evidence of what you say.”
Again with generalizations? How about you get to specifics? Oh, wait, you can’t. And this is funny because you have repeated that Putin is a patriot while not explaining why. Hooray for dual standards!
“Tell us where is the evidence his that over 80% of Russian are scared to go against him.”
Let’s start with having you showing us your source for those numbers, and we’ll work it from there. Those wouldn’t be the numbers of a Russian state source, would they? Anyway, did I say that 80% of Russians are scared to go against him? I didn’t did I? That you need to ascribe me words I have not wrote doesn’t bode well for you.
“Show us where he is ruining Russia into the ground.”
Have you taken a look into the Russian economy? The federal budget? His military spending tripled since 2007, and it’s only halfway of his ten-year program. Do you think that’s financially viable, especially with current oil prices? Did he slashed military spending? No, he slashed pensions and increased his military budget.
He’s been in power for, what, 15 years now? Why did he not take any steps to diversify Russian economy and insulate it from a crash in oil prices? Wasn’t that what brought the USSR down?
Do you think things in Russia are better or worse now compared with when Putin took office? I mean, I could nail you on freedom of speech alone, but indulge me.
“Tell us how many people has he ordered to be killed and where is that evidence.”
Are you denying that he never ordered anyone killed? Are you denying that Putin uses the power of the state to persecute human rights activists, political dissents and journalists who start snooping into his businesses? Yes or no, Peggy – just for the record.
“Don’t make statements and keep shoving them down our throats but not produce any evidence of it.”
You mean, like you repeating that Putin is a patriot and not a tyrant?
“I have asked you for this before.”
No, you haven’t.
“I don’t need to back what I say because I am not accusing him of anything or making a statement that Russia is ruined because of him.”
That’s not how things work, sweetheart. You asserted that Putin is a patriot, therefore you better have something to back your assertion. By your very own “logic”, I don’t need to prove what I say because I am not saying that he is a patriot or that he has the best interests of Russia at heart. See how that works? See the dual standards you’re desperately trying to uphold? You DO need to back what you say, but I guess that you simply can’t.
“You are making that statement so either put up or shut up.”
Same for you and your assertion that Putin is a patriot. Where’s your evidence that he has the best interests of Russia and the Russian people at heart? How about you put up or shut up instead? In any case, you already asserted that nothing I say will change your mind about Putin, so you’re making no sense whatsoever. You present no evidence that Putin is a patriot, you won’t believe anything I write that puts Putin in an unfavorable light, you even go as far as to write you don’t need to back your assertions because they’re different from mine. Why are you acting like a muslim confronted with what’s in the quran and sirah? “No. muhammad never killed anyone, he preached peace and love. Prove to me that he killed people. No, that hadith is weak. No, it’s all about self defense of muslims. Silence, infidel – I kill you”.
Peggy says
@Angemon, I really am sick and tired of this with you. Have it your way. I don’t care what you think. My replying to you is not an indication that I want to make you think in any particular way but to defend my position.
It would probably be best if you ignored my posts and I ignored yours. You are determined to prove how clever your are and only you know it all and it has to be the truth so I will back off and let you do that.
So let’s just agree to disagree. There are plenty of others we can both engage in conversation with.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“@Angemon, I really am sick and tired of this with you. Have it your way. I don’t care what you think.”
Deja vu…
“My replying to you is not an indication that I want to make you think in any particular way but to defend my position.”
Funny how things work – I allegedly “try to browbeat you to agreeing with me” by pointing out that Putin is damaging Russia and harming the Russian people while you “try to defend your position” by telling me I’m in a minority, that I’m “annoying” people, and that I should shut up.
“It would probably be best if you ignored my posts and I ignored yours.”
I’ll start by ignoring that suggestion.
“You are determined to prove how clever your are”
No, if I wanted to do that I’d post my graduating grade, peer reviews of my works and my performance reviews.
“and only you know it all and it has to be the truth so I will back off and let you do that.”
Translation: “you refuse to take back what you said and say I’m right, therefore you are a know-it-all who thinks he has all the truth”.
First of all, that’s hilarious coming from you.
Second, rubbish, Peggy. There’s no such thing as “all the truth”, or “some of the truth”, or “3/4 of the truth”, or something like that. That’s liberal leftist talk. There’s only one truth. It’s called “the truth”. And if you need to disregard the damage Putin is doing to Russia and the Russian people in order to call him a “patriot”, then you either don’t know the truth or the truth is of no importance to you.
“So let’s just agree to disagree. There are plenty of others we can both engage in conversation with.”
Does that mean you won’t address me out of nowhere to complain that I’m wrong because I’m in a minority, or complain that I’m “annoying” people? Oh noes!!!
Peggy says
“It would probably be best if you ignored my posts and I ignored yours.”
I’ll start by ignoring that suggestion.
===========================
Are you saying that you can’t resist the urge to reply to my posts?
Try.
I am asking nicely. If you persist then you really are a bully.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“Are you saying that you can’t resist the urge to reply to my posts?
Try.”
Funny, coming from someone who implied she was going to ignore my posts. Is it really that hard for you to abide by the standards you try to impose on others, Peggy?
In any case, no, Peggy, what I am saying is that I, not you, get to decide whom or what I reply to, or what I ignore. And as long as you keep resorting to distortions and ad hominems, as opposed to discussing what I actually say, I don’t see why I shouldn’t be allowed the right of reply.
“I am asking nicely.”
You’re doing the exact opposite of that. You’re trying to be as rude and as abusive as you can possibly be while trying to maintain (im)plausible deniability.
“If you persist then you really are a bully.”
This coming from the person who told be basically to shut up because my opinion is allegedly a minority and annoying other people.
Let’s see:
Bully – someone who uses force, threats, or coercion to abuse, intimidate, or aggressively dominate others.
Now let’s see what you did here (and I’m paraphrasing):
“I’m asking you nicely: if you keep replying to me, you can’t control your urges and you’re a bully”.
Who’s being the bully, Peggy?
Look, Peggy, if you want to ignore what I say, ignore it, like you did with what I said about Putin. If not, then don’t. But if you’re expecting me to hold my tongue while you call me names and ascribe me falsehoods, go get a chair and a serving or three of your favorite food and beverage because you’re going to keep us here for a long time. And since you’re going to keep here for a long time (because you want to get the last word in, and that last word is some sort of name calling, like “bully”, which will be followed by me using my right of reply), I’d prefer to actually stick to the matter at hand: Putin is not a patriot because his policies are damaging to Russia and its people. Capisce?
Peggy says
I’d prefer to actually stick to the matter at hand: Putin is not a patriot because his policies are damaging to Russia and its people. Capisce?
=====================
Listen stalker,
According to you..
Now stop stalking me. Capisce?
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“Listen stalker,”
I’m a “stalker” now? By what manner of insane troll logic?
“According to you..”
No, not according to me. According to the very definition of “patriot”. You might as well be claiming that Obama is a patriot trying to keep the US safe by banning firearms.
If you want to find patriots in Russia, start by looking at the people protesting against the government and Putin.
“Now stop stalking me. Capisce?”
No, io non capisco. You’re the one who went out of your way on another topic to tell me to shut up because my opinion was a minority and that I was annoying people, and you try to claim I’m stalking you? This is exactly what I said above: you’re trying to be as nasty as you can get while pretending otherwise, Plus you’re trying to bully me out of my right of reply.
You don’t like what I say? Too bad. You’re going to insult me? Then I’ll use my right of response. Capisce?
David says
Horary for them. They have the gonads to protect their women. The government needs to arrest all in the group of refugees and congratulate the Russian men!
Daniel Triplett says
@Peggy and Angemon
Encouraging you two to continue your lively debate turned out to be a really bad idea, for which I apologize.
You’re a smart guy Angemon, and I still think so, FWIW. And I’m not throwing stones, because I’m human and lose my temper too, but calling Peggy “full retard,” among other put-downs, was really unnecessary. Not only does name-calling instantly terminate your powers of persuasion with your opponent, but Peggy is no retard. If she’s a retard, than so am I, because I agree with just about everything she said.
That was such a long argument between you two, I don’t even know where to begin, nor do I even think it matters at this point. This thread is pretty much dead an buried now, I don’t know if anyone’s even reading it, and I certainly don’t want to have you two go at each other’s throats again.
A shame, since we’re all on the same team.
Your entire beef Angemon seems to be centered on whether Putin can legally be called a “Patriot.”
I believe he is, for all the reasons Peggy mentioned. And like her, that doesn’t mean I think he’s a swell guy.
The fact is, Putin will remain in power for another 15 – 20 years. Considering that, wouldn’t we be better off figuring out how to work WITH the Russians, rather than continuing this pointless pissing match?
Whether he’s a patriot or not is really irrelevant. What matters here is that we’re in WWIII, and we need Putin’s help. I believe even you can agree with that, or if not, I didn’t hear you mention an alternative.
I know you didn’t watch those videos, because if you did, you’d hear Putin say he sees no reason to bomb ISIS, and he articulates his reason pretty well. Again, for someone who apparently harbors a great deal of ill will toward Putin, I believe examining those videos may change your perspective. They sure changed mine.
Regarding Chechnya, which is 94% Muslim, I’d much rather that Putin has them under his thumb than leave it to the Muslims to do as they please, unabated. We can see throughout the World that when Muslims run the show, good things don’t happen.
Ukraine is not our ally. Do we want to make an enemy with Russia because Putin wants to reconcile some Ukrainian territory with Russia? Is preserving Ukraine’s sovereignty worth losing our War against Islam?
I disagree that wanting to expand Russia’s Empire proves he’s no patriot. I do agree though that he’s bitter about the collapse of the USSR, and he’s even said that was the worst thing that happened to the World in the 20th Century. But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t love Russia. Russia is his country, and he’s the Head of State. Why would he not love Russia just because they lost some satellite states in the USSR collapse?
If Abraham Lincoln had lost to the CSA, do you think Lincoln would no longer qualify as a patriot, or love what was left of the USA?
And since when did it become an international crime to take over other people’s territory? Right after the USA stopped doing it? Do you remember Manifest Destiny? I assume you’re American. I’m a direct descendent of John Howland, 1 of the 43 survivors of 1620 Mayflower. All of this American territory we now claim as our own, once belonged to other people. We took it all by force, and a shitload of Indians died in the process. Even the house lots that you and I now live on belonged to the Indians at one point. Should we give it all back to them, get on a ship, and sail back to England?
Even the Louisiana Purchase, legally purchased at a huge bargain from France, was land the French forcibly took from the Indians.
This is a principle I learned in History 101 in college: To be a sovereign nation, the territory must be claimed, *and it must be DEFENDED.*
Without those two things, you don’t have a country.
The evolution of the World is a product of Natural Selection. Peoples who are superior in intellect, numbers, or weaponry get to claim and hold territory. It’s been that way for 200,000 years. Only in the last 100 years or so have some people decided that’s immoral.
Even the Iranians understand this principle, which is why they’re pouring so much money and effort into building nuke weapons. Because they believe that will guarantee the survival of their regime. Same with fat boy Kim Jong Un. They understand it’s not enough to just say “This is our land.” They know they must also defend it.
That’s why the Native Americans don’t rule America now. They couldn’t defend their territory. That’s why all of Africa and South America were colonized by Europeans.
Perhaps I sound harsh or uncivilized, but I’m just describing human nature. How long are we going to keep letting Dar al-Islam control over 2/3 of the World’s oil…you know, that thick black stuff we all need to survive? It’s just an accident of geology that it happens to be sitting below Muslims’ feet. They’d have no idea how to extract it or develop it without Western technology. Is it a smart idea to allow people who seek our extermination to control all that resource so vital to our survival?
And what are they doing with all that oil wealth? Making the World a better place? Of course not. So how long are we going to keep patting ourselves on the back about being such good PC/MC people, respecting the sovereignties of oil-rich Muslims…all at the cost of Western Civilization? Are we going to sit on our ass and watch Tel Aviv get vaped? Do you think the Iranians aren’t serious with their promise to kill the Jews then us?
We have a MASSIVE war going on in the World right now. So why in the Hell are we getting bogged down in the semantics of whether or not Vladimir Putin technically qualifies under the Merriam-Webster definition of “Patriot?” Does it really matter?
I think not.
What matters is that we win the War against Islam. And that’s ALL that matters right now.
Make no mistake, we are losing this war. And we will keep losing it until the Muslims strike first with nuclear weapons. Then the gloves come off and all the PC/MC John Lennon “Give Peace a Chance” bullshit ends.
We will use nuclear weapons if we want to win the War. We can either wait until Tel Aviv, Manhattan, or DC gets glassed, or we can activate my plan and strike first. Either way, we will use the nukes, so we may as well use them first.
And we can’t eliminate Islam without an alliance with Israel, UK, France, India, China, AND Russia. That’s a fact.
Angemon says
Daniel Triplett posted:
“calling Peggy “full retard,” among other put-downs, was really unnecessary.”
I didn’t say Peggy was full retarded, I said she went full retarded. Not the same thing.
“Your entire beef Angemon seems to be centered on whether Putin can legally be called a “Patriot.”
I believe he is, for all the reasons Peggy mentioned.”
I say he is not a patriot because he’s harming Russia and the Russian people, not only now but especially in the long run, and he’s doing so to benefit himself and his cronies.
“I know you didn’t watch those videos, because if you did, you’d hear Putin say he sees no reason to bomb ISIS, and he articulates his reason pretty well. Again, for someone who apparently harbors a great deal of ill will toward Putin, I believe examining those videos may change your perspective.”
I have watched them. I’ve also watched other videos of Putin and Russian state-controlled media, where any and every thing is blamed on the West, especially on the US. The FIFA scandal? A US conspiracy to harm Russia. The murder of Boris Nemtsov, a political opponent of Putin, who regularly reported on corruption in Putin’s regime and, at the time of his murder, was writing a report detailing the involvement of Russian troops in the Ukrainian conflict? A CIA conspiracy meant to harm Russia. Not only Putin is anti-US in a way that would make Stalin look like an American-flag carrying Tea-Partier, he also *needs* foreign enemies to prop up his regime.
“I disagree that wanting to expand Russia’s Empire proves he’s no patriot.”
By itself it might not, however, Putin is doing so at the expense Russia and its people. He keeps spending money on military that could be better spent to improve the lives of the people living in Russia. How about building a highway or two, or combat the high rates of alcoholism, suicide and domestic violence, or go after organized crime and corruption, or doing something about the thousands of Russian girls who end up victims of sex-trafficking, or making sure that Russia’s finest minds don’t go somewhere else?
“And since when did it become an international crime to take over other people’s territory?”
I guess we don’t need to worry about ISIS in Iraq, Syria, Libya or Europe then…
“Even the Iranians understand this principle, which is why they’re pouring so much money and effort into building nuke weapons. Because they believe that will guarantee the survival of their regime.”
The Iranians are in the same fix as Putin – their regime needs to constantly browbeat the Iranian people with tales about the enemies from outside. The “Big Satan”, the “Little Satan”, all the “Zionist conspiracies” – they must blame the wretched state of their country on a foreign entity rather than on their government. They already stated that their goal is to wipe out Israel – because, religion – and that’s pretty much the use they’ll get out of nukes. Not as a means of dissuasion under the principle of “Mutually Assured Destruction”, because “Twelvers” believe that the mahdi will return in a time where muslims are being persecuted, and there’s nothing in their eschatology saying they can’t force such a time by starting a nuclear conflict.
Angemon says
P.S.:
“ I assume you’re American.”
No, I’m European, and I regularly contact with other Europeans from several different countries. Most of them tell the same tale: Moscow is interfering in their country’s political scene by propping up both fringe extreme-left and fringe extreme-right groups. Putin is trying to appeal both to leftists by being an alternative to the US’s alleged racist, sexist, homophobic culture and right-wingers by being an alternative to the US’s allegedly degenerate culture that allows same-sex marriage and gives racial minorities the same rights as it gives to racial majorities.
Peggy says
Daniel Triplett says
February 20, 2016 at 8:26 am
@Peggy and Angemon
Encouraging you two to continue your lively debate turned out to be a really bad idea, for which I apologize.
======================
No need to apologize for anything. I am definitely through with conversing with Angemon because he has to be right no matter what and that only means frustration for the other person.
I have read your post to him and his reply to you and I think it’s best you let this go as well. It will never end.
Looks like anyone who has a different opinion has to either change his/her mind or just stop the conversation because he won’t stop until you or I do. Let him have his little victory if that’s how he sees it.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“I am definitely through with conversing with Angemon because he has to be right no matter what and that only means frustration for the other person.
(…)
Looks like anyone who has a different opinion has to either change his/her mind or just stop the conversation because he won’t stop until you or I do. Let him have his little victory if that’s how he sees it.”
You’re projecting too hard, Peggy. Need I remind you that you did not refute anything I said about Putin’s policies in Russia? It doesn’t matter if Putin running Russia into the ground and harming the Russian people – Putin if a “patriot” because you say so, facts be damned.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“I am definitely through with conversing with Angemon because he has to be right no matter what… Looks like anyone who has a different opinion has to either change his/her mind or just stop the conversation because he won’t stop until you or I do.”
Meanwhile, outside your fantasy La La Land:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/02/brussels-50-of-children-in-state-schools-are-muslims-practicing-muslims-19-of-city-practicing-catholics-12#comment-1382588
Ups!
Daniel Triplett says
@Peggy
I see what you’re saying Sister. Good advice.
@Angemon
You’re a tenacious, unyielding debater, even if a particular point you may be pursuing may be wrong; perhaps you deserve a credit of sorts for that. I disagree with you on many points, and agree with some also, but I just don’t have the time to pursue an endless argument with you. And when you insist on being right on every single point, whether or not you are, I have no incentive to continue with you. If I want to be treated like that, I’ll call my ex-wife.
May I suggest that focusing your passion and time for debate would be much more profitable if directed toward Muslims? You have 1.6 Billion of them from which to choose, and maybe with your tenacity, you can actually gain some ground for us in the Counter-jihad. See if you can win some of their hearts and minds.
Spending endless hours bashing Putin really isn’t advancing our cause, IMHO. You and I walk away from those videos I linked with different impressions of him.
And you still haven’t refuted my assertion that we must have a Russian alliance to defeat Islam. Because the fact of the matter is, I’m right.
Your tu quoque about suggesting I somehow condone the hijrah, because of what I said about Natural Selection and territorial conquest is lame, by the way. (I often learn something from you though; I had to look up “tu quoque.”)
You said you’re European. With your impressive command of the English language, perhaps you’re a British Subject? Even if not, the point I was trying to make is that European colonialism has been a good thing. I notice that yesterday, Robert posted yet another article by the brilliant Hugh Fitzgerald, where he describes the same thing.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/02/hugh-fitzgerald-whats-the-matter-with-merkel
In particular, I say BRITISH colonialism has done more good for the World, second only to Christianity. I’ll reprint for you here what I posted in that thread:
Daniel Triplett says
February 21, 2016 at 1:20 pm
As the Greeks, Romans, Spanish, British, and Soviets have all learned, no Empire lasts forever. The legacies they leave behind are what makes them different.
Some Empires leave death, destruction, and despair in their wake, as the Soviets did.
While others make the World a much better place during their Empire’s time in the sun. Imagine how different, in a very bad way, the World would look now had Great Britain never spread its influence across the entire globe.
Here is but a small list of very large and extensive contributions the British left in their wake. We all owe them our gratitude:
1. English language
2. The United States of America
3. The agricultural and industrial revolutions
4. Nearly every modern sport
5. Mechanical inventions (railway, steam locomotive, gas turbine, jet engines, automobiles, etc.)
6. Economics (mercantilism, free trade, capitalism)
7. Scientists & Philosophers (Bacon, Locke, Newton, Darwin, Russell…)
8. Politicians (Churchill, Thatcher, among many others)
9. Programmable computer
10. World Wide Web
11. Literature & Poetry (Shakespeare, Milton, Bronte’s, Kipling, Dickens, Elliot…)
12. Television
13. RADAR
14. Theory of Evolution
15. Telephone
16. Parliamentary monarchy
17. Architectural styles (Norman, Tudor, Georgian, Regency, Victorian…)
18. Pop music (Beatles, Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Queen, and so many more)
19. Luxury cars (Rolls Royce, Bentley, Jaguar, Lotus, Aston Martin)
20. Negative & color photography
21. Modern systems of finance
22. Fair systems of legal jurisprudence
23. Fashion (Burberry, Dunhill, Paul Smith, Vivienne Westwood, FCUK)
24. The submarine and battleship
25. Modern household appliances.
My gosh…the list just goes on and on and on. See for yourself. Here’s a very comprehensive list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_innovations_and_discoveries
Second to Jesus Christ and Christianity, British Colonialism is probably the best thing that ever happened to the World. Thank God they weren’t satisfied with simply staying put on that small island.
Daniel Triplett says
February 21, 2016 at 1:35 pm
Here is what Wikipedia returns when inquiring about a similar Muslim List:
“The page ‘List of Muslim innovations and discoveries’ does not exist.”
=========================
Vladimir Putin, Peggy, and Daniel Triplett are not your enemies Sir. But 1.6 Billion Muslims want your head on a stick. And they’ll do unspeakable atrocities to your mother, wife, and daughters if they get their hands on them.
Let’s stick together Friend.
Let’s win this War.
I’ll leave the last word to you, if you want it. But I’ll no longer entertain this thread. We both have more important things to do.
Angemon says
Daniel Triplett posted:
“@Angemon
You’re a tenacious, unyielding debater, even if a particular point you may be pursuing may be wrong;”
Nope. When I’m wrong, I’m wrong. As I showed above, I have no problem with being corrected. The thing is, neither you nor Peggy addressed what I said about Putin running Russia into the ground. What you’re doing is a logical fallacy known as “poisoning the well” – a handy way to dismiss criticism out of hand without actually addressing it.
“And when you insist on being right on every single point, whether or not you are”
Again, you try to poison the well – and you do that *after* I gave an example where I acknowledged I was wrong and corrected what I said. Am I wrong when I say that Putin is running Russia into the ground? Am I wrong when I say that Putin’s rule is harming Russia and the Russian people?
“May I suggest that focusing your passion and time for debate would be much more profitable if directed toward Muslims? You have 1.6 Billion of them from which to choose, and maybe with your tenacity, you can actually gain some ground for us in the Counter-jihad. See if you can win some of their hearts and minds.”
May I suggest you spend more time actually addressing the points I make instead of going around distorting and misrepresenting them? Anyway, considering how that worked for Bush, I have no interest in wining hearts and minds. What I do have an interest in is on knowing who I can count on. And Putin ain’t someone I, or the West, can count on.
“Spending endless hours bashing Putin really isn’t advancing our cause, IMHO.”
Again, poisoning the well. What I said about Putin is based on facts and his actions. Putin has shown to be unreliable and rabidly anti-Western.
“You and I walk away from those videos I linked with different impressions of him.”
Have you not read what I wrote? I saw those videos. I also saw other videos of him spewing anti-West, especially anti-US, propaganda, like stating the FIFA scandal was a US conspiracy against Russia. My opinion of him is based on ALL evidence I can get my hands (or eyes) on, not on a few that I just happen to like.
“And you still haven’t refuted my assertion that we must have a Russian alliance to defeat Islam.”
You haven’t refuted anything I said about Putin being anti-West, especially anti-US. How can one expect to have an alliance with someone who talks of us as muslims talk of Jews?
“Your tu quoque about suggesting I somehow condone the hijrah, because of what I said about Natural Selection and territorial conquest is lame”
It’s not a tu quoque, it’s simply applying your logic regarding Ukraine to another scenario. You said, and I quote, “And since when did it become an international crime to take over other people’s territory?“. ISIS is taking someone else’s territory in Iraq, Syria, Libya, and they stated they want to conquer Europe. Either you don’t see anything wrong in that, as you don’t see anything wrong with what’s happening in Ukraine, or you have a dual set of standards – is it OK when Putin does it but wrong when someone else does it?
“Vladimir Putin, Peggy, and Daniel Triplett are not your enemies Sir.”
Vladimir Putin sure thinks of me as an enemy, seeing as I’m an European, US-sympathizing Westerner. I’ve heard what he has to say about me, and I don’t feel not a bit reassured, especially seeing how he’s been testing the waters – Russian submarines and aircrafts have been violating other nations’ exclusive space from Sweden to the Iberian Peninsula, including a couple near misses with commercial planes (which the Russian ambassador blamed on Swedes smoking weed, making them seeing stuff). He is also meddling in other nations’ politics, supporting fringe parties both at the right (promoting anti-Americanism on the grounds of allegedly depraved American pop culture) and at the left (promoting anti-Americanism on the grounds that America is a nation of Bible-thumping, oil-stealing, dictator-backing, old, white racist bigots) – as long as a party can cause raise eyebrows and cause discomfort in Brussels; Putin will back it. But Putin’s greatest enemy is the the Russian people – at least, going by how he treats them. For example, poverty in Russia is increasing (courtesy of Putin’ policies, and blamed by Putin on the West), and last year we had the sad spectacle of Russian law enforcement destroying hundreds of tons of food imported from EU countries. And what does Putin do? Slash pensions, increase military spending.- he’s preparing for war, and not against islam or muslims.
Daniel Triplett says
@Angemon
I read your post, and although I have much to say, I won’t respond to it, as promised, giving YOU the last word.
Good day. I’ll see you around JW later, hopefully as allies and friends.
Angemon says
If you want to go the Peggy route and ascribe me an absurd and patently false motivation rather than address my arguments, so be it. Putin is as rabidly anti-Western as any given jihadi leader, with the difference he’s not doing it because he believes it’s what his god wants, but because he needs a foreign threat to secure his place in power. The bombings against ISIS in Syria? Given the massive amount of money he’s pouring into his military, think of the German involvement in the Spanish Civil War.
gravenimage says
Yes–Putin is a threat to both his own people–he derailed the move to democracy and freedom there–and to many of his neighbors, most notably the Ukraine, but also Georgia and eastern Europe. He hates the free West.
He does sporadically oppose Jihad, but no more–and no more consistently–than does the West.
He has enabled Shari’ah in Chechnya and a nuclear Iran.
It is quite true that he is nowhere near the threat that Islam is–but that is certainly damning with faint praise.
Daniel Triplett says
@Angemon
I just wasted an hour responding to your post, and right before hitting “Post Comment,” my $6000 computer locked up. So I’m starting from scratch again and will keep this short.
I don’t know how it works in Europe, but when an American gentleman extends to you the respect of having “The last word,” you then get to say anything you want, THEN SHUT UP AND MOVE ON.
You broke the honor code Bro. I read your entire post, and while I could’ve responded, I didn’t, because I promised you the last word. But you just couldn’t leave it alone. You just had to keep going, in my absence no less.
Peggy is right, not only about the topic of this thread, but in her characterization of you as well. You can’t seem to get the polite hint when it’s time to KNOCK IT OFF.
Perhaps you have endless hours to spend debating people on Jihad Watch, but I don’t. I have a thousand things I must do right now, and trying to reason with a man unwilling to reciprocate is right there at the bottom of my list.
There are two things, and only two things that matter right now.
1. Forming an alliance between US, Israel, UK, France, India, China, AND Russia.
2. Winning the War against Islam, criminalizing it Worldwide, eliminating Dar al-Islam forever.
Anything else is irrelevant minutiae. Whatever you may or may not think of Putin matters not. The man will be in power for another 15 – 20 years. The War will be over by then. Whose side would you like the Russians to take?
Here’s the Big Picture: Either the Muslims win, or we win.
Right now we are losing this War. Although my strategy can certainly be improved, and I welcome any insights, endless bashing of an indispensable ally in WWIII is counterproductive and foolish. No one has offered an alternative strategy to mine that will work, particularly within the timeframe constraints of the Iranian nuke program.
You still haven’t offered a strategy that will win this War. Either because you don’t have one, or because your obsessed with your hatred of Putin for some reason. You STILL haven’t described how we can win this War without a Russian alliance. BECAUSE WE CAN’T.
You’re not going to change who Putin is. Would you like to put a hit squad on him, replacing him with an unknown, perhaps the likes of Josef Stalin or Vladimir Zhirinovsky, and simultaneously start a war with Russia? Or would you like to screw your head on straight and learn how to work with Putin and the Russians to defeat the 1.6 Billion mortal enemies that want to kill us all?
You said, “Putin is as rabidly anti-Western as any given jihadi leader, with the difference he’s not doing it because he believes it’s what his god wants, but because he needs a foreign threat to secure his place in power.” WTF? Where in the Hell did you decide that?
Although Russia was never described to me as our “friend,” not once in all the 1500 Intel briefs I had in the USAF did anyone ever say anything close to what you said. Do you think the US Intel apparatus is stupid? Come on Man. “Putin is as rabidly anti-Western as any given jihadi leader?” You surprise me. You’re much brighter than that.
Start here:
A 07:12 video of Putin speaking truth, and nothing but the truth. The truth, as you won’t here from American MSM, or even from Fox. He’s responding to an AMERICAN reporter’s question. I previously picked it apart and highlighted some key points before my computer froze, but I don’t have time to do that again.
But if you’ll watch it, you’ll see that he clearly seeks no confrontation with us, and if we had someone other than Obama, he would welcome an alliance, saying among other friendly remarks that we share the same geopolitical interests.
We don’t have to be adversaries with Russia you know. Remember how Reagan and Gorbachev became friends, ending a decades long bitter Cold War? We can do the same with Putin. Let me say that another way: We MUST do that with Putin if we want to win the War against Islam.
https://youtu.be/OQuceU3x2Ww
I can’t make you watch the video. It’s your choice.
But the video convinces me that he’s a willing partner whom we can trust. None of your other complaints about him, whether true or not, matter one whit, considering the Epic World War upon us.
May God help you realize who our enemies are. I don’t have time to do this with you anymore.
Angemon says
Daniel Triplett posted:
“I don’t know how it works in Europe, but when an American gentleman extends to you the respect of having “The last word,””
Don’t be dishonest, that was not what you did. What you did was to imply that what I said was wrong, or that at least you could come up with a coherent retort (despite not having it done so far), but you wouldn’t do it because of my alleged motivation to get “the last word” in.
“you then get to say anything you want, THEN SHUT UP AND MOVE ON.”
Huh, wasn’t that what just happened? You “extended” me the “respect” of “having the last word”, then I got to say something I wanted, and now you’re complaining because I did that. Or does in America “I’ll let you have the last word” means “I want to have the last word so shut up”?
“You broke the honor code Bro.I read your entire post, and while I could’ve responded, I didn’t, because I promised you the last word.”
See above. Not only you’re trying to dismiss my arguments out of hand by making up some nonsense about the last word, you’re actually going chastising me for following the line of action you consider to be correct.
“But you just couldn’t leave it alone.”
Again, chastising me for following the line of action you consider to be correct.
“You just had to keep going, in my absence no less.”
Huh, Daniel? This is a web forum, not a livestream. People leave messages and other people read them at their own leisure. What, do you just believe everyone else is online while you type your messages? I doubt that. What is seems is that you can’t counter what I said about Putin so you won’t even try, so you’ll attack my character instead – for example, by claiming I broke some sort of “code” and talked about you when you were not present.
“Peggy is right”
No, she isn’t. Putin is no patriot.
“not only about the topic of this thread, but in her characterization of you as well.”
You mean, the stuff she made up about me because I wouldn’t indulge in her delusions about Putin?
“You can’t seem to get the polite hint when it’s time to KNOCK IT OFF.”
Didn’t you said that when you “extended” me the “right of having the last word” I would then get to say whatever I wanted? Why are you complaining about me doing that?
“Perhaps you have endless hours to spend debating people on Jihad Watch,”
Nope,
“but I don’t. I have a thousand things I must do right now,”
You opened your post saying “I just wasted an hour responding to your post”.
“and trying to reason with a man unwilling to reciprocate”
Reciprocate to what? You seem hellbent on being Putin’s white knight and defend his honor from people pointing out that he’s anti-Western and harming Russia and the Russian people.
“There are two things, and only two things that matter right now.”
Is any of that making a honest, realistic, fact-driven characterization of Putin?
“1. Forming an alliance between US, Israel, UK, France, India, China, AND Russia.”
Are you not following the news? Putin is rabidly anti-Western, especially anti-American. You might as well try to form an alliance with Caliph Ibrahim.
“Anything else is irrelevant minutiae. Whatever you may or may not think of Putin matters not.”
Again, a gross mischaracterization of my stance. It’s not what I think of Putin, it’s what Putin does and says, not just for internal consumption, but publicly to the West. He’s shown again and again he despises the West. His military have been violating other countries’ air space, including near misses with commercial airliners. You can’t have an alliance with someone who despises who you are and what you are.
“The man will be in power for another 15 – 20 years.”
Because, like I said, there’s no political alternative in Russia. Putin has declared the West to be the enemy of Russia, and he portrays himself as Russia’s last line of defense against it.
“The War will be over by then.”
What “War”?
“Whose side would you like the Russians to take?”
What part of “Putin has shown nothing but despise and disrespect for the West, just look at the things he says to the international media” do you fail to process? What makes you think such an alliance is even possible to begin with?
“ Either because you don’t have one, or because your obsessed with your hatred of Putin for some reason.”
Again, a gross mischaracterization. I have a fact-based, realistic view of Putin. The problem is on your end – you simply refuse to look at what Putin says and how he acts and instead choose to believe your imaginary version of him.
“You said, “Putin is as rabidly anti-Western as any given jihadi leader, with the difference he’s not doing it because he believes it’s what his god wants, but because he needs a foreign threat to secure his place in power.””
I did, and I stand by that. Because that’s the realistic view.
“WTF? Where in the Hell did you decide that? ”
I didn’t “decide” anything – I simply take all facts into consideration. If you don’t want to believe me, look at the posts from, for example, christianblood:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/02/iranian-general-iran-russia-syria-hizbullah-lebanon-coalition-is-on-the-verge-of-victory#comment-1384489
And further down from that link:
More, from another user:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/02/iranian-general-iran-russia-syria-hizbullah-lebanon-coalition-is-on-the-verge-of-victory#comment-1384587
As it’s patently obvious, Daniel, I’m not making stuff up when I say Putin is rabidly anti-Western. Nor am I not the only one thinking that. The difference between me and “christianblood” or “Ex-muslim” is that I’m against such a line of thinking while they’re in favour of it.
“Although Russia was never described to me as our “friend,” not once in all the 1500 Intel briefs I had in the USAF did anyone ever say anything close to what you said.”
Huh, so what?
“ Do you think the US Intel apparatus is stupid?”
Do you think they consider Russia to be a trustworthy friend or ally? If so, then yes.
“Start here:
(…)
I can’t make you watch the video. It’s your choice.
But the video convinces me that he’s a willing partner whom we can trust. ”
And here we go again, beating the same dead horse of “just watch this video and everything will be OK”, even though I stated, in no unclear fashion, that I have seen those videos.The thing is, Daniel, I don’t base my view of Putin based on a microscopical sample that just happens to agree with what I state while disregarding everything else.
“May God help you realize who our enemies are.”
Huh, what? I’m not the one who needs help figuring that out.
“I don’t have time to do this with you anymore.”
That remains to be seen.
Peggy says
Daniel Triplett said:
“Come on Man. “Putin is as rabidly anti-Western as any given jihadi leader?” You surprise me. You’re much brighter than that”
====================
If he was much brighter than that he wouldn’t spend so much time and energy on a detail which has no importance on the subject. He would realize that what you are trying to tell him is the only thing that is important and crucial to us winning the war against Islam. Anyone reasonable won’t be bogged down with how Putin behaves in his own country or how Putin mimics the US in changing governments of other countries when a far more important issue is the survival of civilization.
You have tried to get this through to him over and over and he still keeps focused on Putin being a patriot or not.
.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“If he was much brighter than that he wouldn’t spend so much time and energy on a detail which has no importance on the subject. ”
And, of course, Peggy, the scavenger, crawls out of the woodwork not to rebut my points but to ride Daniel’s tailcoats and rant against me – she may be done talking to me but she’s not done talking ABOUT me.
Anyway, rubbish, Peggy. Putin’s stance on the West should the most important point of your imaginary alliance.What does he think of the West? Will he keep his word and honor this imaginary alliance? Not from what I’ve seen of him – Putin has shown to be as rabidly anti-Westerner as any given jihadi leader.
“He would realize that what you are trying to tell him is the only thing that is important and crucial to us winning the war against Islam.”
What “war”? Who is waging that “war on islam”?
“Anyone reasonable won’t be bogged down with how Putin behaves in his own country or how Putin mimics the US in changing governments of other countries when a far more important issue is the survival of civilization.”
And there you go, grossly mischaracterizing my stance. Not only that, you’re contradicting yourself in the process. Plus, with a tu quoque regarding the US.
“You have tried to get this through to him over and over and he still keeps focused on Putin being a patriot or not.”
Bollocks, Peggy. I’ve argued that Putin is no ally to the West. And I can back what I say by pointing out to what Putin says. There’s no alliance to be made with someone who despises and hates you. There’s no alliance to be made with someone who tries to get other people against you. There’s no alliance to be made with someone who clings to power by presenting you as a foreign enemy. There is no alliance to be made because you can’t ally with someone who regards you as an enemy.
Putin chose Iran. Am I to believe that Iran would join this alleged “War on Islam”?