Any genuine bigotry is indeed contemptible and should be always and everywhere shunned and condemned. The problem with this initiative is that for years now, Leftists and Islamic supremacists have insisted that any opposition to jihad terror, no matter how mild, is “anti-Muslim bigotry,” and have fought against counter-terror efforts under the aegis of fighting “bigotry” and “Islamophobia.” For years, my colleagues and I have been smeared and defamed as “anti-Muslim bigots” for opposing jihad terror. So when Rabbi Feinberg unfurls his banner, it is hard not to think that he is unwittingly aiding an effort to stifle all opposition to the advancing jihad.
“Standing with Muslims, faith groups buy banners,” by Lauren Markoe, Religion News Service, March 10, 2016:
(RNS) The banners proclaim it in large, red letters: “Honor God — say no to anti-Muslim bigotry.”
Rabbi Charles Feinberg, executive director of the Washington, D.C.-based Interfaith Action for Human Rights, the organization that conceived the idea for the banners, keeps the prototype in the front seat of his car and unfurls it whenever he’s among a large group of the faithful — no matter their religion.
His aim is to get churches, synagogues and other houses of worship to order the banner, and plant or hang it prominently in public view.
“We would love to see many, many communities — many different religious communities — display it on their properties as a sign of support and as a way to counter some of the hate speech in our communities,” Feinberg told an interfaith gathering in Silver Spring, Md., recently.
The room gave him a warm round of applause, and a few people raised their hands, gesturing that they would be placing an order.
Feinberg said a handful of houses of worship have signed on so far to the banner campaign, which IAHR is promoting with Shoulder-to-Shoulder, an interfaith group created to oppose Islamophobia, and T’ruah, a human rights organization led by Jewish clergy….
The banner campaign was inspired by other banners that have shown up on houses of worship in support of other causes in recent years. “Black Lives Matter” is a popular banner at more liberal churches, as is one that proclaims “Marriage Equality.”
The banner campaign against anti-Muslim bigotry is also offering a version that reads “We stand with our Muslim neighbors,” and another that says a particular house of worship “stands with Muslim Americans.”
Randy says
God is a myth
Ex-muslim says
@ Randy
If you dare, travel to pakistan or to saudi arabia and say “God is a myth” to the muslims there!
panmelia says
Why should Randy travel to pakistan or saudi arabia to say anything when he lives in a free country where he is at liberty to decide whether or not he believes in any god and to say so if he doesn’t?
Any country or society that forces you to believe in a god is a tyranny not to be borne. In the Western world we went through all that centuries ago and are now FREE to believe or not believe and declare it if we wish. if a religion is so weak as to threaten apostates with punishment or death, it is doomed to fail. As an ‘ex-muslim’, you must know that.
Personally, I agree with Randy that any god is a figment of human imagination that we really should have outgrown by now. Those who are brainwashed from babies to believe in one are unfortunate indeed, but with an effort of will they can escape the brainwashing and learn to think for themselves. We must not be prisoners of what ignorant and superstitious people believed thousands of years ago for want of a better explanation of the natural world and their own existence.
The Jews and Christians and Leftards who defend islam on religious and political grounds are pathetic indeed. That ‘bigotry’ notice they hold up is a sick joke.
Ex-muslim says
@ panmelia
I agree with most of your points. I challenge atheists instead of attacking Christianity and telling Christians there is no god or god is myth etc they should try to share those same words with the millions of muslims who are right here in America.
Mo says
@ panmelia
“Why should Randy travel to pakistan or saudi arabia to say anything when he lives in a free country where he is at liberty to decide whether or not he believes in any god and to say so if he doesn’t?”
Because he is an anti-Christian bigot who repeatedly spews lies about Christianity on this board and contributes NOTHING to any discussion on ISLAM, the point of this site.
He has no problem spewing lies about Christianity because he knows Christians won’t do anything to him. He’s a bigot and a hypocrite.
If he’s so “anti-religious” he should try that garbage in SA or Iran. But he won’t, because he is a hypocrite. He can only spew filth about Christianity – the religion he and most anti-theists ACTUALLY hate.
Not a peep about Islam.
Linde Barrera says
To panmelia- You did not create yourself and you were given free will. Good for you for using it. As for me, I will die a Christian, convicted in my beliefs. Jesus Christ was a historical figure and His death on the cross was recorded by Josephus, a Roman scribe. When you use the words “superstitious religious beliefs,” I interpret that phrase not to refer to Christianity. Doctrinal Christianity has no superstition. Just sayin’.
gravenimage says
Panmelia, if you read “Randy’s” others posts, his main purpose here is to urge Christians and other Westerners to roll over to Islam out of a sense of unearned guilt.
I very much doubt he is an honest Atheist–certainly, he is no Anti-Jihadist.
Kathy Brown, Esq. says
Panmelia: What about those raised as atheists, who then as adults embrace God? What is your opinion of them?
I presume you’ll reply that anyone who loves God is an idiot, a fool, a dolt. Yes?
Paul Calem says
Dear Linda:
Josephus was Jewish, not Roman.
Mark Swan says
I don’t like spinach, and I’m glad I don’t, because if I liked it I’d eat it, and I just hate it. ~ Clarence Darrow
Living In A Country That Was Founded On Christian Values Is What Makes It
Possible To Insult Christian Values.
I never desire to converse with Anyone who has written more than They Have read.
Pong says
Linde,
Josephus short reference to Jesus in his book “Jewish Antiquities” is so obvious later inclusion, that anybody using it as proof of “historical Jesus”, should be ashamed of themselves.
As for Jesus to be a historical figure, just ask yourself: why we know much more about Josephus and many other people, living around that time, then about Jesus ? Shouldn’t he be far more important then them and as a result – witnesses about him ? We have none.
We have a reliable knowledge about people who lived even before “time of Jesus”, and I am not talking about kings and emperors, but quite the ordinary ones.
History is not an exact science, so when we look at certain events, not supported by documents or reliable (not questionable) sources, it helps to ask, if an event could’ve taken place. With many, described in the NT, the answers would – “no” for sme and “unlikely” for the others.
Don’t be surprised, if people find your strong commitment on such weak evidence is a bit strange, to say the least.
Timothy Jordan says
I believe in God. I grew up in a non-religious home and came to God and Christianity completely on my own. i very much thought for myself.
Fessitude says
Paul Calem:
“Dear Linda:
Josephus was Jewish, not Roman.”
Josephus was likely both, as was another famous Jew of history:
“the Jewish philosopher Philo of Alexandria, who visited Rome as a member of an embassy to the emperor Caligula (40 CE). In his report, he gives an overview of the life of the Jews in Rome, mentioning that their position had been guaranteed by the emperor Augustus. He had permitted them to send their tax (the ‘first fruits’) to Jerusalem, to receive the Roman citizenship, and to study Jewish (instead of Roman) laws.”
http://www.livius.org/di-dn/diaspora/rome.html
Josephus was born in 37 AD , Philo in 25 AD, so they were approximately contemporaries. And wasn’t St. Paul himself both a Jew and a Roman citizen?
Fessitude says
Pong said: “why we know much more about Josephus and many other people, living around that time, then about Jesus ? ”
But:
“At the present moment, the scholarly consensus tends to accept that the Testimonium is from the hand of Josephus, but has been somewhat altered by later Christian editors. ”
http://www.josephus.org/GoldbergJosephusLuke1995.pdf
Mark Swan says
Titus Flavius Josephus Was Most Definitely A True Roman…
What Your Ancestry Was Did Not Mean You Were Not Roman.
The Roman Empire Was Very Diverse…Citizens Were Citizens.
He was a first-century Romano-Jewish scholar, historian and hagiographer, who was born in Jerusalem—then part of Roman Judea—to a father of priestly descent and a mother who claimed royal ancestry.
He initially fought against the Romans during the First Jewish–Roman War as head of Jewish forces in Galilee, until surrendering in 67 CE to Roman forces led by Vespasian
After Vespasian became Emperor in 69 CE, he granted Josephus his freedom, at which time Josephus assumed the emperor’s family name of Flavius.
Flavius Josephus fully became a Roman and was granted Roman citizenship.
He Is One Of The Worlds Most Respected And Authoritative Historians.
Josephus Accounts are not a Christian interpolation in the view of scholars such as Eddy, Boyd, Geza Vermes and Kostenberger. Geza Vermes states that the sober history of Josephus appears all the more believable with Scrutiny.
No Scholar Would do anything more than Imply They Doubt Anything He Wrote was accurate…None could do more than say what they considered maybe inaccurate was more than theoretical on their part.
Scholars…whether Roman…Greek…Hebrew…Arabic…Christian…or any other…all respect His First Century accounts.
There are more sources documenting Christ’s existence…whether We believe in His Divinity or not.
Roman historian Tacitus referred to ‘Christus’ and his execution by Pontius Pilate in his Annals (written ca. AD 116), book 15, chapter 44.The very negative tone of Tacitus’ comments on Christians make the passage extremely unlikely to have been forged by a Christian scribe. The Tacitus reference is now widely accepted as an independent confirmation of Christ’s crucifixion.
Jesus’ crucifixion is mentioned in the Babylonian Talmud.
Pliny was the Roman governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor.
Lucian of Samosata was a second century Greek.
The Bible Is The Most Historically Preserved Book There Is…All The Testimony Over Such a Long Period…All Agreeing All Backed up By Archeology…History…Scholarly Scrutiny…All The Prophecy That Has Proven To Accurately Come To Pass And In Detail.
Although there is overwhelming evidence that the Bible is an accurate and trustworthy historical document, some people are still reluctant to believe what it says unless there is also some independent, non-biblical testimony that corroborates its statements…And There Are…But They Do Ignore Them Anyway.
Those That Come Right Out And Call You Wrong For Accepting The Facts…Even Though It Is Your Choice…What Does That Tell You.
Can I Or Anyone Convince Them To Just Live And Let Live…?
Many who believe in God say that you should “just have faith” and not try to examine the evidence. What does the Bible say? Contrary to common assumptions, the Bible does not advocate “blind faith.” The God of the Bible challenges human beings to test and prove what is true and real. He tells us to: “Test all things; hold fast what is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21).
Yes Christ Really Did Live On This Earth…You Try To Prove He Did Not.
mortimer says
Randy,
Recently, atheists in Bangla Desh were murdered with machetes for denying the existence of Allah.
That is what we are discussing at JW. Reality is more complicated than slogans.
Mark Swan says
Thank You mortimer…You Came Through On That One.
blitz2b says
I don’t think they would care much….. However if you pointed out some thing factual about the Mohammed, you suffer a violent death that’s for sure.
mortimer says
blitz wrote: “I don’t think they would care much” …
So, you know what Sharia law says, do you? Read this from the manual ‘Reliance of the Traveller’:
O8.7: Acts that Entail Leaving Islam
(O: Among the things that entail apostasy from Islam (may Allah protect us from them) are:
-5- to DENY THE EXISTENCE OF ALLAH, His beginingless eternality, His endless eternality, or to deny any of His attributes which the consensus of Muslims ascribes to Him (dis: v1);
-7- to DENY ANY VERSE of the Koran or anything which by scholarly consensus (def: b7) belongs to it, or to add a verse that does belong to it;
-15- to HOLD that any of Allah’s messengers (Mohammed) or prophets are LIARS, or to deny their being sent;
-16- to REVILE the religion of Islam;
-17- to believe that things in themselves or by their own nature have any causal influence independent of the will of Allah;
Note: by simply making comments that show you have left Islam, you may be killed by any vigilante without a fatwa, though a fatwa is preferred.
Please do not speak about Islam without a basis in fact. Please do not make up your own ‘facts’ about Muslim customs and Sharia law. Please do not state your guesses as facts. They are guesses.
In fact, making the above proscribed, atheistic comments will get you killed in Muslim countries. Ex-Muslims live in constant fear. You should not trivialize that.
BC says
It is still mythology written by men nonetheless, whether one can say that in certain countries is inconsequential
mortimer says
BC wrote: ‘inconsequential’
The topic is Islamic bigotry and how Muslims treat disbelievers violently. You are a disbeliever. Muslims will treat you violently if you bug them.
That will be the ‘consequence’ for you. Violence.
Shane says
Agreed. The contemptible left hates all religions equally, when there is only one religion that is now killing people for apostasy, blasphemy, adultery, and men who are gay. Wake up leftists! We have a common enemy, Islam, so it is a stupid idea to attack all religions, you twits.
Pong says
Unfortunatly, it became a necessity to attack religions. The god question should be left aside. It is a religion, as an institution, which is “selling” us to islam.
To defeat islam from a religious position is impossible. Just look at this thread: people, how seems to aggree on islam become immediately divided to the point of hate, as soon as religion is on the table. Many church leaders are welcoming islam, which causes problem for people, belonging to those denominations. Many go to an incredible length in defending the source, twisting their arguments and logic. “This Pope” is stupid, criminal, dimmi, but I remain a devoted catholic”. Devoted . May be. Catholic? I don’t think so. I wander how much the influence of the CC had on the last election in Ireland, where pro-islamic government was elected. Local elections in Germany seems to show that catholic part of Germany is more tolerant to islam, then the protestant one. Islam is a political ideology and should be ltreated the same way as fascism and communism. By bringing religion into the fight, makes islam as legitimate as any other religion.
Jay Boo says
Wrong about that Shane
The contemptible and (hypocritical) left only — CLAIMS — to hate all religions equally.
They usually give Islam a free pass
Angemon says
Randy, that’s very offensive to native Americans and their gods. You should feel ashamed of yourself – you rant and ramble against the Christians “stealing” land from native Americans but the moment you stop doing that you start robbing Native Americans of their culture and traditions, you bigoted hypocrite.
You’re despicable.
panmelia says
Have you ever considered that religious people banging on about their own or other people’s ‘gods’ is offensive to atheists? No, of course not, because religious believers take it for granted that their superstitions are of interest or acceptable to everyone and ‘respect’ must be paid because their beliefs are in some way ‘sacred’ and never to be challenged or criticised!
At some time in the future, humankind will have outgrown its childish belief in supernatural ‘gods’ of any description. Hasten the day! Meanwhile, religious conviction is a personal matter and should be private practice, not shouted about all over the place in an attempt to gain converts or silence non-believers.
I don’t care what nonsense people believe as long as they don’t bother me with it, but the moment they start insisting that theirs is the only true religion and I had better start believing it or else they’ll make me with guns, bombs, and deadly force – that’s when I perceive them as a threat and will do all in my power to oppose them. Come to think of it, there’s only one religion that threatens world peace, isn’t there?
mortimer says
It does not concern me if Muslims worship stones (in the Kaaba) as long as they do not throw them at me.
Religious ejaculations in this forum are mostly undisciplined, off-topic digressions and thus a discourtesy to the other forum readers. Religious people should not be discourteous.
Western Canadian says
Of course other people should not be allowed to insist that their own religion is the only true religion. It is very obvious that atheism is the only true religion, and any who disagrees should be shouted down, subject to childish name calling and ignorant bigoted rants. Just like yours. At some time in the future, we will all be forced at the point of a gun to be atheists, like pammypoo! After all, it is obvious that she is SOOO much smarter and better informed then any other kind of person!
Let’s face it Pan, you are merely an ignorant, hate filled bigot, mush like the more devout members of islam (RTC). You know nothing about the belief systems you hate, you merely know to hate them, because as a child you were primed to be an ignorant bigot, and you are one. You have never considered that your childish and spiteful drivel is offensive to those who don’t share your narrow beliefs, but you shriek and scream about your own hurt feelings, again, much like a child.
The level of knowledge and sophistication demonstrated most often by atheists is NOT the product of intelligence or education. It is pathetic to see best selling authors (or ignorant posters on iweb boards), offering up what had been hashed over and left behind by both believers and atheists, over a century ago.
Pam, you are free to spew your ignorant slop, but doing so only demonstrates that your efforts are not worth the time of day. You are the most narrow minded bigot on this board, save for the muslim trolls.
Jay Boo says
panmelia
Your timing is horrendous
Randy (the troll) began with
“God is a myth”
Even if this troll’s intent were to present the atheist viewpoint, it is at a minimum very rude to suddenly post way off-topic on the first post or in Randy’s case deliberate.
Your most recent follow to Angemon’s obvious sarcasm at Randy’s usual troll spam gives the impression that you are far more concerned about proselytizing atheism then defending against an obvious troll who is trying to ruin this site.
I ask that you review some of Randy’s or should I say (Raschid’s) other posts and notice that Randy doesn’t criticize Islam.
Mark Swan says
Reply To: Western Canadian says…March 16, 2016 at 12:10 am
Thanks You Said What Others Here Needed.
The Polemics…don’t have to have dialog just as long as
they have something to argue seems to suit them just fine.
.
Angemon says
panmelia posted:
“Have you ever considered that religious people banging on about their own or other people’s ‘gods’ is offensive to atheists?”
Doesn’t matter because native-Americans trump atheists in the Oppression Scale. Randy has been consistently portraying native-Americans as being oppressed – he would have us believe that Christians are torturing and killing Native Americans today for being Native Americans and justifying it with the Bible – but how he’s oppressing them in the worst possible way – by mocking their culture and beliefs. That’s very, very, VERY offensive and disrespectful of him, especially considering how he rambles about how oppressed they are. Why does he need to add to their oppression?
BC says
So are you, the Christians used the bible to justify their suppression of the native population as others have done in many lands. They also forced Christianity on many native peoples and destroyed their cultures in the name of Christ
Manuel Paleologus says
You just defend the islam. Please stop placing judgment on the history of Christianity. When islam will forced you to accept their abomination and idiotic cult, you will see and understand. The world you live in is becoming a very secularized world and this spiritual vacuum will allow to be fed by the demonic theology of islam.
This is what the muslim want to see in the western world-people like you.
Angemon says
BC posted:
“So are you”
Where and how? Elaborate.
Mark Swan says
Manuel Paleologus You Have Certainly Made A Good Point About The Vacuum
Waiting To Be Filled…These Banner Folks Are Proof.
Angeman…BC Can’t Elaborate…Making The Jab At Christians…When Not Able
To Undestand It Is The Christian Values That This Country Was Founded On
That Make It Possible To Criticize Christians In this Country…A Freedom Abuser
Plain And Simple.
That Freedom Is Under Attack By This Banner We AreTrying To Comment On.
Both of you Stick With it…The Truth Can Keep Us Free.
Mo says
@ Randy
“God is a myth”
Which god are you speaking about? Can you tell me what study you did to come to that conclusion? (You know you’ve done ZERO. You’re just an anti-religious bigot.)
Aw, look how brave you are! Go say that in Saudi Arabia or Iran. Give us a report as to how it went. We’ll wait.
Address ISLAM, you troll.
Richie says
@ Randy
“God is a myth
You’re making the claim, what is your evidence to back it up?
BC says
What is your evidence to back up your claims?. As Feynman said extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
Atheist7 says
“extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” is a favorite atheist quote – since all religions make claims based on extremely weak evidence or no evidence at all. Richard Feynman would undoubtedly have agreed with the quote; however, the quote is initially attributed to Marcello Truzzi. Carl Sagen really liked it as did Paul Kurtz and James Randi.
Mark Swan says
The Church of the Non-Believers
Evangelizing the religion of human reasoning
The master of ceremonies…The Right Reverend Dawkins’ assertion that rank-and-file atheists are far more facile with scripture than rank-and-file Christians” is so laughable and outrageous as to be absurd. A cursory survey of militant, atheist literature from those who are considered its greatest scholars quickly reveals a host of misunderstandings readily apparent to any unbiased observer…He employs his double standard against the Bible in both obvious and pervasive preaching.
The new atheists are quite skilled at parroting critical scholars in the popular media, but give little evidence of having done any real research into the Bible. Their mistakes are so elementary that, if one did not know that some are ranked among the world’s intellectual elite, one would simply consider them part of the Pseudo-Scholarship of the un-educated.
Dawkins is perfectly aware that atheism is an ancient doctrine and that little of what he has to say is likely to have changed…His true interlocutors are not the Christians he confronts directly but the wavering nonbelievers or quasi believers among his listeners – potential New Atheists who might be inspired by his example.
The New Atheists will not let us off the hook simply because we are not doctrinaire believers. They condemn not just belief in God but respect for anyone who believes
in God. Religion is not only wrong; it is evil…they make the old Evangelical Christians look democratic.
This Us And Them…All Or Nothing…Defeats Free Agency…I Admire Many Brilliant
Atheist But Mr. Dawkins Is Not One Of Them…He Is A Demigod…He’d Argue with
Himself If He Could.
jayellj says
No, Randy, God – the creative intelligence of the Universe – is not a myth. But the repulsive projection of a warped, criminal human mind onto image of a ‘universal creator’ most certainly iS. And although many religions (through lack of ‘tangible evidence’) have honestly attempted to gain some sort of understanding of, and contact with, this most elusive being by the only means possible – metaphor and projection – there is only one ‘faith’ where the most disgusting and disgustingly transparent application of cynically opportunistic corrupt fabrication has produced the unspeakably vile distortion of a ‘creator-figure’ known as ‘Allah’, and this not for honest or constructive motives, but as a crude pseudo-‘religious’ scam to advance the political ambitions of its equally corrupt and criminal founder.
Champ says
“Randy” is a myth.
Champ says
I don’t need proof that “Randy” doesn’t exist …he doesn’t exist because I said so. ‘Nuff said …
Mark Swan says
Good One
Mark Swan says
I Wonder If His Nurse Knows He’s On The Computer Again…They Really Do Need to Check Those Bed Restraints Regularly…And Carefully.
Marilyn says
All of the over 2000 gods created by man are.
Marty says
Can’t disagree with that statement.
All religions are an made attempts to explain science (100% redundant now)
& exert political control (all too relevant still)
In the politically correct, mohammedan appeasing, London School of Economics
– probably the top lefty university on Earth – they held a banquet last night for the mohammedan society.
Women segregated from men by a heavy roof to floor curtain.
It’s OK to be worse than the Nazis in the UK, as long as you’re not white, Jewish or Christian.
Atheist7 says
Randy, I think that you are messing with us. That is, throw something out – and then see what comes back.
Ex-muslim says
O’ how much I hate these ignorant people in the West who are standing and backing genocidal muslims who are murdering tens of thousands of Christians and other minorities in the islamic world every year.
These Western liberal fascists are just as bad or even worse than the hateful and violent muslim jihadists
they are supporting.
panmelia says
Yep, and they should be put on trial for ignorance, stupidity and betrayal at some point in the future.
Ex-muslim says
@ panmelia
Exactly!
mortimer says
ex-muslim wrote: “how much I hate these ignorant people in the West”
Western elites like Feinburg have not read the Islamic source texts, and yet, they absurdly present themselves as authorities on Islam. Why do they do that?
Rabbi Charles Feinburg would need to read a truckload of Islamic source books before he could be considered an expert on Islam.
Feinburg is a well-meaning useful idiot and a clueless dhimmi who unwittingly shields jihad from criticism and thereby he unknowingly supports the progress of genocide, misogyny and theocratic supremacism.
One wonders if he would change his mind even if his synagogue were to come under attack (God forbid).
Demsci says
Yes,And if not backing the Muslims, Political Corrects (PC’s) are still condoning the supremacist profoundly anti-democratic violent actions. By denying the undeniable perpetrators ARE MUSLIMS.
I am so glad there are ex-Muslims like you, who know Islam inside out! Great that you participate here!
The biggest lie the PC’s come up with, it seems to me, is what Obama keeps telling us; That Islamic state is not Islamic!?! With the implication that Islam is somehow a clear religion with only beneficial or at least neutral effects in it’s supposed one true version.
I confronted 2 nice Dutch citizens, one white woman, one black man, when they said that Islamic State was not genuine Islam. The discussion was heated. But you know what?
While I came up with arguments, like the excellent expertise on Islam of Abubaker Al Baghdadi, IS’leader and the testimony of ex-Muslims and many Islam-experts, along with examples of Quran-texts and acts of Mohammed,
they both constantly deflected or only came up with shallow arguments; like the ones that say Islamic State is Islamic don’t know Islam, or if Islamic State is criminal, how can it be Islamic? Also; oh, the leaders of Islamic state really are Saddam Hussein’s old generals pretending”. You see, how weak and desperate these PC’s (Political Corrects) are.
I said: Why do you make definitive statements that Islamic State is “not Islamic” when you make no effort to seek the truth about this? Answer: “The truth does not exist, meaning “is relative”. Well, in an honest debate you will go down if that is the best you’ve got, I think.
Constantly with deflections they tried to avoid arguing and stopping the conversation. But I said; Fine, let it be noted that in any conversation about Islam it is you two who hardly come up with arguments or answers to my arguments, but change the subject or get personal, and who are the ones who shut down the conversation at first opportunity. And that is significant.
That stung the woman at least to try to go on and talk a bit more anxious about the vexed question.
Why do perfectly nice non-Muslims defend Islam, with something that is so clear untrue, like “Islamic State is not Islamic”? Like David Wood asked the other day: “Will people defend their friends by lying for them?” Do people want to be defended by those who lie for them?”.
Of course these 2 were only PC non-Muslims, but I have yet to have one reasonable conversation about “Islamic State being Islamic or not” with Muslims. Isn’t going to happen. They deny and come up with crazy conspiracy-theories, much Tu Quoque, and all the time deflections and discussion-stoppers.
So far my experiences with PC’s and Muslims the scarce times they allow me a small podium to discuss “Islam and Democracy”.
Mark Swan says
It Is Live And Let Live…And That Is A Good Thing To Practice.
Why do perfectly nice non-Muslims defend Islam…Because It
Is What They Feel About It…Just Not Tuned In That’s All…So
How Did You Find Out About Islam And The Quran…I Started
Here On This Sight…I Never Believed Islam Was Based On
Sound Understanding About God…But That Did Not Mean Anything
To Me…I One Day Decided To See What All This Maniacal Jihad
Was About In The World…Looked It Up That Way…And I Liked
This Site…And Mr. Spencer…Here I Am.
Demsci says
oh, for me I am Islam-aware ever since 9/11, but only on Internet since 2009. It was Pim Fortuyn, a Trump-like-politician in Holland, who was murdered in 2002, and Ayaan Hirsi Ali, then active in Holland, who impressed me mightily about the danger for democracy that Islam constitutes.
Yes, pretty good site, Jihad Watch. Before I was “residing” with Ali Sina’s FreedomFaith.org.
Mark Swan says
You Hang In There…This site offers food for thought.
Being able to discuss the Islamic Movement with others is a breath of fresh air…
lots of good people dropping in…I read every post…even the ones that seem to be
just written to aggravate…a lot of clear thinkers…with great perspective are here
too…Let’s Enjoy Our Right To Voice Our Concern While We Can…
Before The We Said So People Manage to Stop It.
Marty says
You’re a brave person judging by your name.
No religion, including Christianity, would survive if cultures did
not fight against muslim aggression.
Were it not for (most of ) the Crusades, Christianity would have been destroyed
a thousand years back.
When Jesus spoke of turning the other cheek, he was referring to family
and neighbour quarrels.
Not defending civilisation from genocide
Rob Porter says
Ex-Muslim, deep down these fool are driven by cowardice. The mind truly boggles at their astounding stupidity! To state the obvious – obvious except to these really very stupid Jews and Christians – Muslims, not Baptists, Catholics, Methodists, Buddhists, etc – but Muslims all round the world are murdering people for not believing the trash that Muslims believe, and yet to some Jewish and Christian dimwits those who condemn or criticize the on-going Muslim savagery indulge in ‘anti-Muslim bigotry’. Pull the other leg, imbeciles! Evidently these people suffer from a form of Stockholm Syndrome – or is it not just plain cowardice driven the notion that if they are nice to Muslims, then Muslims won’t harm them. Meanwhile God forbid we should discuss the Christians and Yazidis being persecuted, not least murdered, in Iraq and Syria, or Christians murdered in Nigeria, Mali, Somalia, Sudan or Egypt.
jihad3tracker says
HERE WE GO AGAIN — REACHING OUT WITH GENUINE KINDNESS OF SPIRIT IS DONE BY CHRISTIAN AND JEWISH CLERGY ———– BUT NEVER BY MUSLIM CLERGY.
Rob Porter says
jihad3tracker, Believe me, this is not “REACHING OUT WITH GENUINE KINDNESS OF SPIRIT”, it is reaching out with genuine stupidity to Muslims bigots who all over the world are murdering and subjecting to awful persecution people who don’t believe in their Islamic drivel. Where is the condemnation of Islam for its ghastly teachings and the savagery of Muslims in response to those teachings?
Veritas says
Separating the wheat from the chaff. Pity we can’t be sustained by chaff. There’s a lot of it around.
Jay Boo says
These fair weather Christians will be the first to bow and hold up signs defending Koran verses that deny the Divinity of Christ and other verses call them dirty kafirs.
Jay Boo says
With liberal Jewish fellow kafirs by their side.
Hope says
Sadly, some of these liberal Christian denominations are already on the verge of denying the divinity of Christ themselves. They won’t come right out and say it yet, instead they are gradually edging toward it. You know, boiling the frog.
billybob says
Well of course. It is offensive to Muslims to insist that Christ is the son of God, or that he died on the cross. “That’s not who we are” some might say. “We don’t want to offend our Muslims friends and neighbours”! Maybe the Gospels were so carefully written down, as the Muslims suggest. How could 1.6 billions Muslims be wrong, anyhow?
billybob says
…were’nt so carefully written down
Mark Swan says
Hope…You Know the frog in the pot of cold water…that is heated ever so slowly…
until it is to late.
Where Did You Here This…I Know Where I Did.
It Is A Good Analogy.
Angemon says
Of course, in standard ideologue fashion, they give no definition, or examples, of what “anti-muslim bigotry” is. There’s just this fuzzy, vague, general semblance of an idea, an illusion that wouldn’t stand up to scrutiny, so it’s not scrutinized and allowed to stand, or fall, on its own merits. But hey, they have a sticker saying that they’re against “bigotry”, so I guess they’re good people, and they’re letting others see just how much of good people they are…
panmelia says
Shouldn’t it say “Honour allah” rather than ‘God’? Or are they really claiming that their god is the same one as the unmerciful, the unwise, the thoroughly nasty little sand devil god that muslims worship?
The Jews’ jehovah isn’t much better I suppose (always getting angry, jealous and vindictive), but I don’t think he advocated some of the antics muslims claim are approved of by allah via his ventriloquist doll moMAD. As for Christians, they really should know better than to defend a religion that is in every way opposed to the philosophy and doctrine of their founder.
billybob says
“As for Christians, they really should know better than to defend a religion that is in every way opposed to the philosophy and doctrine of their founder.”
Total non-sequitur. A “Christian” is a follower of Christ, by definition. If you ever notice someone who claims that title, but doesn’t act like a follower of Christ – he isn’t! It is that simple. Please try to understand.
Norbert Haag says
I really did not know that some Christians have another God than Christianity.
The God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob is the only God. For Jews as for Christians.
Mark Swan says
“sand devil”…Good One…Made Me Laugh
TheBuffster says
Angemon said: “Of course, in standard ideologue fashion, they give no definition, or examples, of what “anti-muslim bigotry” is. There’s just this fuzzy, vague, general semblance of an idea, an illusion that wouldn’t stand up to scrutiny, so it’s not scrutinized and allowed to stand, or fall, on its own merits.”
That’s the trouble with making a banner like this on a subject that requires more explaining, because fine print couldn’t be seen from afar, even if it were there. So this banner just reinforces whatever has become the “going” public idea of what “anti-Muslim bigotry” means.
“…Fuzzy, vague, general semblance[s] of … idea[s]…” whether used by well-meaning people or otherwise, tend to work toward the side of confusion and deception, and aid those who are trying to get away with something. They blur distinctions and mislead careless minds, minds that get too caught up in feel-good sentiments to remember to be skeptical enough to question.
People need to be alert to the fuzzy, the vague, and the general, the undefined,the unspecified, and a lack of examples. But, alas, the feel-good longing and/or the desire to not be perceived as (allegedly) heartless seems to be a strong motivator to stay in the blurry zone.
Actual bigotry can also be a motivator for staying in that zone, too. Anytime people just want to believe what they want to believe, blurriness is their friend. It’s a false friend that keeps them away from the truth, but it’s the false friend they hold hands with.
Angemon says
I don’t consider them as well-meaning, TheBuffster. To me, they’re selfish, spiteful people, eager to rub a bumper sticker or something on someone else’s faces and say “See? I’m better than you”. It’s much more simple and comfortable to have, for example, a bumper-sticker or a T-Shirt saying “Save the whales” or “Free Tibet” than actually doing something to save the whales or freeing Tibet.
celticwarriorcanada says
” Then Judas who was betraying Him,answered and said ,” Rabbi is it I ?” He said to him ,” You have said it.”( Matthew 26:25) N.K.J.V.
underbed cat says
I think they have it backwards…..it is just the opposite. It is the ideology and brutal totalitarian sharia lslamic laws, the directives of the book they(the guys holding the sign) have not read that directs the pious muslims to strike terror (terrorism) into the hearts (fears, threats of death) of non-believers, (Christians and Jews of non believers). It is really just that as incredible as it seems, it is a threat to the U.S. and it is planted here in great numbers but away from our eyes in remote peaceful rural areas appearing,waiting like the scorpion waiting to strike. You won’t hear it spoken, it is against their laws to do so. They may only say it is hijacked by extremists, and declare themselves peaceful.
Mo says
“Honor God — say no to anti-Muslim bigotry.”
Which God is that?
And would they be willing to stand at a mosque and hold a banner reading, “Honor God – say no to anti-non-Muslim bigotry”?
mortimer says
PARADOX OF INTOLERANCE
“Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to DEFEND a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.”
-Karl Popper, philosopher
Does Rabbi Feinburg tolerate this statement from a lecture given by Sheikh Abdullah al-Faisal (H.A.):
“The implication of al-Baraa is that one HATES for the sake of Allah (SWT)…Al-Baraa means to recognize who your enemies are and to HATE them and EXTERMINATE them in their Endeavour to get rid of your Deen, al-Islam…Al-Baraa is to HATE the people who propagate Baatil (falsehood)—the Muslim should HATE them and (at least desire to) KILL them when the time comes.”
Rabbi Feinburg is confusing tolerating people with tolerating a theocratic, fascist system of world domination.
We ordinarily make judgements that our society will not tolerate philosophies that tend to oppress people.
Islam is a word that means submission. It is an euphemism for ‘slavery’. Does Rabbi Charles Feinburg tolerate slavery?
mortimer says
“We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal.”
― Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies
(Islam incites religious persecution, vigilantism and the revival of the slave trade, for instance. We should not tolerate normative Islam for those reasons.)
Arthur says
Very nice couple of posts, mortimer. These quotes also, nicely, make the issue not Muslims or Islam but intolerance. Set the rule first: Intolerance cannot be tolerated. Then, it is a simple step to show that Islam preaches intolerance.
Fessitude says
Why should a people who are so intolerant they foment violence in the name and service of a fanatical hatred when they are not themselves killing, be tolerated? If Arthur wonders why I’m asking him this it’s because he praised mortimer’s post which had this line:
“Rabbi Feinburg is confusing tolerating people with tolerating a theocratic, fascist system of world domination.”
implying that we should tolerate Muslim people. On what basis should we tolerate Muslim people?
Jay Boo says
The sign should say:
— “Honor God, Say no to Islam”
Mockingjay says
Yes,
or
“Honor God, say no to muslim bigotry”.
dumbledoresarmy says
Good one!
Worthy of an internet meme.
Might be worth turning it loose on FB and see what happens.
The accompanying images could be a montage of headlines recording mohammedan incitement and brutality against non-Muslims worldwide.
Ted Tyler says
As an Atheist, I might prefer “Honor Truth, say no to Muslim Bigotry”. But I realize that “Honor God, say no to Muslim bigotry” has a much better ring to it.
nacazo says
Say no to muslim bigotry.
TheCrusader says
I don’t know what the problem is.
I know Jesus and Jesus is real, alive and knocking on your door and eager to save you!
However, Islam is evil to the core and an abomination to God.
A muslim is fooled into believing Allah is God which he is not, since Allah states in the Quran:
“I’m the greatest deceiver.”
Now Jesus told us already who that is: The devil, a liar and thief and murderer from the beginning.
So, I tell you: Repent from your wicked ways and follow Jesus so you might get saved.
The Vilest of Creatures says
What an idiot this rabbi is, he is defending people that hate his guts for being a Jew, many of whom would love to kill him.
Mockingjay says
Yes these people are fools, unfortunately a fool is a very dangerous person.
Richie says
This reminds me of battered wife syndrome, where an abused wife will defend her abuser at all costs
Sam says
I’ll start being sympathetic to the sentiment expressed by the banner when mullahs start unfurling ones that say “Honor God — say no to anti-Jewish/Christian/Buddhist/Hindu, etc. bigotry”.
Oh wait, they never will, will they — it’s against their scripture.
Richard Paulsen says
Well then, build a mosque and a synagogue together as one building in every community. Like with churches and mosques in Europe.
Lee Hicks says
What you see happening is the groundwork being layed for the next step in the great apostasy foretold in prophecy.
As I believe that the Antichrist and false prophet will be the coming Islamic Mahdi and an imposter claiming to be Jesus, it is easy to see how so many can and will be decieved into rejecting the actual Christ, instead following a form of Chrislam.
When the false prophet appears during the Tribulation, looking like Jesus, sounding like Him, and even doing miracles like Him, the unwary like those pictured in the link will likely believe that Christianity had it wrong, and that Islam got it right.
They will cast aside the truth of the Word, and will follow instead the doctrines of demons that comprise the teachings of Islam.
Such movements as the one above are unscriptural, false, and very, very foolish.
Marty says
Islam is a death cult founded by a pedophile, mass murderer, thief, and serial rapist who, if alive today, would be in prison hopefully seating justified execution.
Ex-muslim says
@ Marty
Very well-said indeed!
Keys says
Reminds me of what Pogo said.
“We have met the enemy and he is us”.
Don’t these religious leaders have an obligation to study Islam
before they make these banners, so they don’t give stones (or scorpions) to their sons when they need bread?
Carlos Danger says
They don’t need to study Islam…they just need to pay attention to what Islamists do.
Keys says
Makes enough sense to me Carlos – look at what they do, not what they say. And find out why they do it.
Their retort will be not all Muslims are Islamists (ex: Obama says the terrorists have nothing to do with Islam), and not all Muslims do evil things, but are productive citizens.
So, we need both/and: to know about Islam, and to know what adherents, especially Mohammad, do and have done.
Mirren10 says
What about muslim **anti-infidel* bigotry ?
Ho-hum.
Peter says
If the faith groups really wanted a clue, their banner would omit “anti-.”
Mirren10 says
Oops. Meant to say, also, where are the infidels murdering muslims ? Nowhere to be seen.
How I *despise* these cowardly, despicable, wilfully stupid *twats*. May they rot.
gravenimage says
Banner at churches, synagogues: “Say no to anti-Muslim bigotry”
…………………………
As Robert Spencer ably notes, this is not really about “anti-Muslim bigotry”, but about shutting down any criticism of the threat of Islam.
The clueless Rabbi Charles Feinberg has claimed that taking out violent Jihadists with drones is no better morally than the actions of the Jihad terrorists themselves. He has also claimed that *any* possibility of ‘collateral damage’ in warfare is unacceptable–meaning that we cannot be allowed to defend ourselves against Jihad in any way.
This fool has also claimed that Pamela Geller’s ads exposing CAIR’s links to Hamas somehow meant that Muslims were being “yelled at and disrespected”.
And he works with the Muslim victim-mongering Zainab Chaudry at Interfaith Action for Human Rights. Among other things, she has demanded that Guantanamo be shut down and all the Jihadists released, that Infidel women must wear the Hijab in “solidarity” with Muslim women, the boycott of and isolation of civilized Israel, and has insisted that the US not attempt to defend against Jihadists entering America. She has said that anyone warning against JIhad terror is “stoking fear”. The idea that JIhad terror itself might be stoking fear is, of course, something she does not mention.
She has described not paying equal pay for equal work as “#passiveterrorism”. I am no fan of this in any form, but to refer to economic inequality as “terrorism” while ignoring real terrorism is perverse. It is all the more grotesque since Islam itself *institutionalizes* the inequality of women.
But this is not, of course, about women’s equality–or with “Black Lives Matter”, another thing she flogs. She is just quick to jump on any criticism of the West that seems handy, even though Islam institutionalizes oppression of Blacks just as it does women.
Fessitude says
“this is not really about “anti-Muslim bigotry”, but about shutting down any criticism of the threat of Islam.”
But since Muslims are the ones fomenting and carrying out the threat of Islam (when they aren’t pretending not to through taqiyya)in the name of Islam and because of Islam, any intelligent criticism of the threat of Islam will unavoidably be a criticism of Muslims which doesn’t differ from any “anti-Muslim bigotry” in any way except that the “anti-Muslim bigotry” might be for the wrong reasons (pure racism). I don’t see how any intelligent criticism of the threat of Islam can avoid criticism of Muslims without making an artificial distinction, like watching a Muslim behead someone and saying “It’s not a Muslim beheading, it’s Islam!” as though the two are not fused together.
Mark Swan says
We Can Make Our Own Banners And Signs…If We Want To…of course .
But It Seems This Attack On Our Intelligence…Choice To Be Concerned…
Freedom To Express It…Time To Think…Will Always Take On Some Weird
Spin In Trying To Make Us Feel Wrong.
gerard says
Honour God – say No to Islam.
billybob says
“Say no to anti-Muslim bigotry”
Such a mindless slogan can go nowhere, because it ignores the facts.
“Islam hates us”
…is the banner we should use. It totally avoids speaking directly about Muslims, who may be uninformed about Islam and are good and peaceful citizens; who may not follow their religion; or who may be Muslim in name only.
“Islam hates us” contains no bigotry. Instead, it challenges us to consider this poisonous ideology, without laying blame on any particular Muslim’s door step. It leads to constructive dialog rather than blind hate for individuals. And that is a dialog we must have, either today, tomorrow, or the next, because Islam really does hate us all, whoever we are, whatever our religion, and hates even Muslims themselves. If we care about all human beings, we need to address this ideology sooner rather than later.
dajjal says
Begin with Al Wala’ Wal Bara & aquidah.
What does Allah love and what does he hate? For what purpose did he create the Black race?
Poleaxe yer ‘slime interlocutor with: “Only Allah has the right to be worshiped.”, “Jizya is a species of punishment for infidelity” and a” payment in lieu of destruction”, “what makes an infidel’s blood and treasure haram for us?” & “Disbelief is an evil which must be removed from the world by death or Islam.” .
Contumaciously demand that he explain the meaning of 3:110 in light of Sahih Bukhari 6.60.80.
Wellington says
Saying no to anti-Muslim bigotry I put in the same category with saying no to anti-Nazi bigotry or saying no to anti-Marxist bigotry. Here’s why: Any Muslim, any Neo-Nazi or any Marxist is each an adherent of a totalitarian ideology which singles out certain groupings of human beings for second-class status or death. Islam does this with non-believers, Nazism does it with certain ethnic or racial groups, and Marxism does it with certain socio-economic groups, i.e., the middle and upper classes.
I proceed on the assumption that any ideology or institution (e.g., black slavery) which singles out groups of human beings for second-class or death is, ipso facto, evil. And being hostile towards evil is not a wrong but a right and is only called bigotry by those who make excuses for evil, enable evil in sundry ways, remain willfully ignorant of evil, or are actually evil themselves. None of such people can I ever admire, nor do I give a damn what they think of me.
Keys says
Very convincing argument, as usual Wellington.
I think you are saying ignorance is no excuse, fear of being killed for leaving Islam is no excuse, Islamic inculturation from birth is no excuse, fear of hellfire for crossing Allah is no excuse, disappointing family and loved ones is no excuse, fear of rejection ……
Evil harms and encompasses – innocent to any extent or not.
Carlos Danger says
The rabbi and his pal are like two turkeys voting in favour of Thanksgiving.
Never Again!
Arthur says
How about a banner that says,
[~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~]
[Say no to ignorance: read the Koran.]
[~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~]
Who could argue with that? Well…
The second dhimma (Pact of Umar) outlawed the reading of the Koran by infidels.
The following is the accepted text of the “Pact of Umar.”
1)We shall not build, in our cities or in their neighborhood, new monasteries, (synagogues) Churches, convents, or monks’ cells, nor shall we repair, by day or by night, such of them as fall in ruins or are situated in the quarters of the Muslims.
2)We shall keep our gates wide open for passersby and travelers. We shall give board and lodging to all Muslims who pass our way for three days.
3) We shall not give shelter in our churches or in our dwellings to any spy, nor bide him from the Muslims.
4) We shall not teach the Qur’an to our children.
5) We shall not manifest our religion publicly nor convert anyone to it. We shall not prevent any of our kin from entering Islam if they wish it.
6) We shall show respect toward the Muslims, and we shall rise from our seats when they wish to sit.
7) We shall not seek to resemble the Muslims by imitating any of their garments, the qalansuwa, the turban, footwear, or the parting of the hair. We shall not speak as they do, nor shall we adopt their kunyas.
8) We shall not mount on saddles, nor shall we gird swords nor bear any kind of arms nor carry them on our- persons.
9) We shall not engrave Arabic inscriptions on our seals.
10) We shall not sell fermented drinks.
11) We shall clip the fronts of our heads.
12) We shall always dress in the same way wherever we may be, and we shall bind the zunar round our waists
13) We shall not display our crosses or our books in the roads or markets of the Muslims. We shall use only clappers in our churches very softly. We shall not raise our voices when following our dead. We shall not show lights on any of the roads of the Muslims or in their markets. We shall not bury our dead near the Muslims.
14) We shall not take slaves who have been allotted to Muslims.
15) We shall not build houses overtopping the houses of the Muslims.
16) When I brought the letter to Umar, may God be pleased with him, he added, “We shall not strike a Muslim.”)
17) We accept these conditions for ourselves and for the people of our community, and in return we receive safe-conduct.
18) If we in any way violate these undertakings for which we ourselves stand surety, we forfeit our covenant [dhimma], and we become liable to the penalties for contumacy and sedition.
19) Umar ibn al-Khittab replied: Sign what they ask, but add two clauses and impose them in addition to those, which they have undertaken. They are: “They shall not buy anyone made prisoner by the Muslims,” and “Whoever strikes a Muslim with deliberate intent shall forfeit the protection of this pact.”
From http://hartnation.com/the-genesis-of-the-dhimmi-status-at-the-dawn-of-islam-the-role-of-caliph-umar-b-khattab
Champ says
“Say no to ignorance: read the Koran.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bravo, Arthur!
dajjal says
Suggested banner quoted from Hedaya 2.141, which I learned of thru one of Mr. Spencer’s blog posts several years ago.
“Destruction of the sword is incurred by infidels although they be not the first aggressors.”
To see the quoted page and several related pages that should piss off the Pope if he was not a dope and knew of them, read Hedaya 2.141 Annotated at the top of http://www.crusadersarmory.blogspot.com/
somehistory says
In the 60’s, an entry was made in the Congressional Record that communists from Russia intended to destroy Christianity from within the churches and seminaries because Christianity stood between them and their taking over of America.
Now, as has been true since its beginning when moslims had the numbers and the power of the sword, they also wish to destroy Christianity…and some in the churches are helping them do it.
Churches are taking grants from the government to help moslims come to the country in huge numbers, helping them settle in Christian communities, helping them build their barracks, and falling victim to the cry of victimhood moslims use to get people to bend to the evil will of islam and its evil god, satan.
Jesus asked, “When the Son arrives, will He really find this faith on the earth ( Luke 18:8)?”
These church people are not heeding His words about staying awake, about false prophets,… Do they really have this *faith* of which Jesus spoke?
mortimer says
Agree with M.O.
Christians are often nice, but not wise. Courtesy is good. Naivety is not. Muslims take Christian niceness as stupidity.
Christians should consider this verse: “Be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.” Challenging words can always be couched diplomatically. Christians are speaking out about totalitarian Islam, but they are mindful that when they do, churches or orphanages, and hospitals run by Christians may be the targets of jihadists. There are many Christians overseas who are ‘hostages’ of Muslims. Pope Benedict spoke out and many Christians got murdered. He then clammed up about Islam.
Jay Boo says
Pope Francis did the opposite; he tried appeasement and many more Christians got murdered.
Then he finally spoke out, although he only hinted at Islam.
Kepha says
I’m with you one this one, Mortimer. But I’m also for using spiritual weapons for witness to Muslims. In the past few years, we’ve been caught flat-footed by a surprising openness to the Gospel on the part of Muslims, which tells me that the Father, Son, and Holy Spiirt (the true God) have a few more surprising plans to work out for us.
Keys says
@mortimer. “Pope Benedict spoke out and many Christians got murdered. He then clammed up about Islam.”
This reminds me of Pius XII during WWII. Evil does not like being exposed in the light and sometimes exacts a horrific price for it. JW has had many apt comparisons of Hitler’s Nazism and Islam. Parts of these books refer to why PiusXII “clammed up” for anyone interested.
Priestblock 25487: A Memoir of Dachau by Father Jean Bernard of Luxemburg.
The film “The Ninth Day” is based on this book. Had the Pope been more outspoken, many more clergy would have died, probably with little effect for it.
Before the Dawn by Eugenio Zolli – Chief Rabbi of Rome during the Nazi occupation.
Thanks, Mortimer, for your continued comments.
citycat says
God is zero times infinity
say no to Islamic bigotry
Give the running of all non-islamic countries to lesbian atheists.
Not Christian does not mean anti-Christian.
Disbelief of God is not against belief of god.
Too much either-for-or-against going on.
Mark Swan says
Yes Indeed
dajjal says
If I were a churchgoing member of any denomination and that malignant message or its functional equivalent appeared there, I would not again darken the door of that damned place.
I will not subscribe or succumb to false guilt over logical and rational rejection of the dictum that I must be killed and may be plundered and enslaved for not subscribing to their damned superstition.
The Jew or Christian who does not understand why I curse and condemn Islam and its adherents & apologists is invited to read the numerous well documented pdf files linked in this blog page:
http://islamexposed.blogspot.com/p/islam-101-for-clergy.html .
Test your church or synagogue: send that link to your Pastor or Rabbi and see if you get excommunicated or shunned as a result. Do you want to remain affiliated with an organization that values PC over life, liberty and security?
Mark Swan says
dajjal…Absolutely Life Lyberty Security…We Choose…Right
Deuteronomy 30:15
“See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil,
Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;
Jeremiah 21:8
“Now you shall say to this people, ‘Thus says the Lord: “Behold, I set before you the way of life and the way of death.
Pong says
The jews are extreme people, so if a jew is stupid, one wouldn’t be able to find such stupidity among other nations and a village idiot next to him will look like a scientific genius.
Richard says
It would be interesting to read more about any anti-bigotry campaign which displays banners in mosques and which declares that the mosques’ members stand with their neighbours, including Jews … as some would say
Singh the Sikh says
Sorry but I have to say this to the rabbi: You dumb fuck!
Richard Paulsen says
What do they want? Their country being turned into a country of 0-5% not muslim population and 90-100% muslims? Like in islamic states.
BC says
Well Linda Barrera, Your comment
, “I will die a Christian, convicted in my beliefs. Jesus Christ was a historical figure and His death on the cross was recorded by Josephus, a Roman scribe”
Josephus in fact was a Jew, granted he lived in Rome but was born 37 years after Jesus was supposed to be crucified and was writing much later.. So he only had other people to rely on and obviously some of them were Christians so he got his knowledge second hand. His only reference to Jesus is considered doubtful by most scholars therefore. Surely if he thought Jesus was a very important figure he would have s written more about him. Josephus was after writing history of the Jews
Mark Swan says
Mark Swan says
March 16, 2016 at 6:11 pm
Titus Flavius Josephus Was Most Definitely A True Roman…
What Your Ancestry Was Did Not Mean You Were Not Roman.
The Roman Empire Was Very Diverse…Citizens Were Citizens.
He was a first-century Romano-Jewish scholar, historian and hagiographer, who was born in Jerusalem—then part of Roman Judea—to a father of priestly descent and a mother who claimed royal ancestry.
He initially fought against the Romans during the First Jewish–Roman War as head of Jewish forces in Galilee, until surrendering in 67 CE to Roman forces led by Vespasian
After Vespasian became Emperor in 69 CE, he granted Josephus his freedom, at which time Josephus assumed the emperor’s family name of Flavius.
Flavius Josephus fully became a Roman and was granted Roman citizenship.
He Is One Of The Worlds Most Respected And Authoritative Historians.
Josephus Accounts are not a Christian interpolation in the view of scholars such as Eddy, Boyd, Geza Vermes and Kostenberger. Geza Vermes states that the sober history of Josephus appears all the more believable with Scrutiny.
No Scholar Would do anything more than Imply They Doubt Anything He Wrote was accurate…None could do more than say what they considered maybe inaccurate was more than theoretical on their part.
Scholars…whether Roman…Greek…Hebrew…Arabic…Christian…or any other…all respect His First Century accounts.
There are more sources documenting Christ’s existence…whether We believe in His Divinity or not.
Roman historian Tacitus referred to ‘Christus’ and his execution by Pontius Pilate in his Annals (written ca. AD 116), book 15, chapter 44.The very negative tone of Tacitus’ comments on Christians make the passage extremely unlikely to have been forged by a Christian scribe. The Tacitus reference is now widely accepted as an independent confirmation of Christ’s crucifixion.
Jesus’ crucifixion is mentioned in the Babylonian Talmud.
Pliny was the Roman governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor.
Lucian of Samosata was a second century Greek.
The Bible Is The Most Historically Preserved Book There Is…All The Testimony Over Such a Long Period…All Agreeing All Backed up By Archeology…History…Scholarly Scrutiny…All The Prophecy That Has Proven To Accurately Come To Pass And In Detail.
Although there is overwhelming evidence that the Bible is an accurate and trustworthy historical document, some people are still reluctant to believe what it says unless there is also some independent, non-biblical testimony that corroborates its statements…And There Are…But They Do Ignore Them Anyway.
Those That Come Right Out And Call You Wrong For Accepting The Facts…Even Though It Is Your Choice…What Does That Tell You.
Can I Or Anyone Convince Them To Just Live And Let Live…?
Many who believe in God say that you should “just have faith” and not try to examine the evidence. What does the Bible say? Contrary to common assumptions, the Bible does not advocate “blind faith.” The God of the Bible challenges human beings to test and prove what is true and real. He tells us to: “Test all things; hold fast what is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21).
Josephus Was Not Interested In A Jewish Heretic who was put to death;
But He Did Know of Him And That He Did Exist; and recorded it.
So Very Many People knew of Jesus throughout Judah…He Spent
Three Years Traveling Publicly Amongst Them During His Ministry.
Thousands of people absolutely confirm Jesus’ existence.
Josephus was a Historian He was not interested in hearsay
He recorded only what He deemed factual accounts and from
many diverse sources…Including His Account of Jesus.
The Writings Of Matthew…Mark…And Luke all respected writers of their time…
Paul’s…James’…Peter’s…Jude’s…conformation…not to mention
So many Christian Followers…who gave witness accounts.
All The Above Say Jesus Existed…Should Anyone call them liars.
Christ Really Did Live On This Earth.
underbed cat says
What is Iahr label on bottom of banner? Anybody know.
Brian says
I am consistently baffled when otherwise intelligent people talk about battling Islamaphobia
The ONLY people who can battle and win against the so called Islamaphobia are the so called moderate Muslims…..when they decide enough is enough and stand up against the radical islamists, mmake their protests known instead of crying victim all the time, when the “moderate” Imams start to preach love and peace, publically, then and only then can they bring the level of understanding to their religion that they desire and people will stop making sarcastic comments such as “if islam is the religion of peace why are extremists not extremely peaceful”
As Martin Luther KIng Jr. said…”In the end we will remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends”
Demsci says
I don;t like the word “moderate”; because it only describes tepidness. I am for the eventual rise of “Democratic Muslims” when we could describe the so-called “radical Muslims as “tepid in democratic principles”. I am in favor of a paradigm-shift; Who are the real principled democratic citizens and what is standing in their way?
Or: Can we have a Christian movement, atheist movement, a “happy lifestyle”movement, all opposed to Islam, because that stupid, archaic Islam stands in their way?
The Muslim kids in the West get to our schools, the Muslim elderly take advantage of our medical systems, the Muslim adults often take advantage of our social services.
With all my heart I hope that many Muslims apostasize because of that, and if not, eventually come to realize that they, at heart, profit much more, can be much more well educated, cared for, autonomous and even insolent in DEMOCRATIC SOCIETIES than in 7th century Islamic societies, like Iran.
There are no Westerners running to Iran, not much anyway, but hundreds of thousands of Iranians run off to the West when they can.
I am hoping against hope a substantial part of Muslims, especially women, find some better alternative to Islam, among us.
Mark Swan says
The Muslims seem to only understand the Get Way…if the Pope appears eager to allow them
a more prominent status they will accept the leg-up…but not for the reasons the Pope hopes for.
The real power Behind these events is a World-Wide effort to spread the goals of a very
calculating and determined Muslim Brotherhood…they are extremely competent and effective…they know all about weak…medium and strong Muslim believers and have been in the business of orchestrating cohesion for nearly a century…if one of their projects like CAIR stopped existing today…they have contingency abilities and thinking in place…they are huge and very formidable…openly connected…and covertly busy…Huge Money is behind them…lots of powerful people support them even if not openly…many other interests benefit and are entwined as well…which stimulates their efforts.
Muslim Reform groups…that do exist are only trying to tone down some of Islam’s tenets…
to suite public opinion but few try to resist Its control…they face The Wall of Why it Exists
in the first place…Control of the Masses…its sole design and purpose.
This Muslim Brotherhood and the spread of Islam…is a very serious and powerful movement…with it’s experience nine decades in the rear…there are so many ways they can flow…look at Egypt…they aren’t through there or any where else…they are very pervasive…very determined.
Where opportunity shows the most promise…the most effort is expended…influence through infiltration of all walks of life…the very open and benign societies are finding this out too late it seems…they may be destined to try levels of resistance that would not have had to be applied had they simply caught it up front and tried to divert it then.
It appears that the time is right for their efforts and they will continue to strike while the iron is hot…this appears to be even more threatening than any past movement to control the masses…they may not really think they can get it all…but We can believe they will take what they can get.
Demsci says
Yep, that ‘s the enemy; not to be underestimated. Another one; Iran!
Mark, how will it go? Perhaps their (MB) whole patient long game is stupid too? Aren’t they really running out of time?
I mean: look how the world is changing, how well-educated and autonomous and dependent on democratic society young Muslims and especially MUSLIMA’s in western nations grow, They can be insolent against us, but the MB wants them to live meekly, like sheep, under some Islamic regime? Like under the ayatollah’s, ISIS, Taliban??? Not being so rich and well taken care of under those sort of regimes either.
Not to mention as a sort of slave as wife of a Muslim. In Holland for instance years ago it became apparent Muslima’s did not like marry Muslims! I wonder why?
Mark Swan says
The migration event into western countries will have some effect. What happens in the
Leadership of Europe in the very near future will be significant. Germany will play a
Major role; a completely different leadership is certain there. Watch to see who allies
with this changed Germany. It will have a core group of allies from central Europe.
Of course other countries will be involved, but this will not be the European Union
that exists now.
The Muslim movement will continue as long as conditions are favorable, but there
best bet is to look to the Middle East for their sole interest. A multinational Caliphate
will form soon enough. Saudi Arabia and Egypt along with other Arab Countries will
elect a Caliph then the Caliphate will unify militarily and economically.
The much different and strengthened European Union will do business with the world
as usual and prosperously.
Something connected with the Middle East will cause great World concern.
When this happens things will get really interesting for the whole World.
You asked Me how I think things will go; this is my best guess so far.
You Take Care
Timothy Jordan says
BIGOTRY- Believe In the Greatness Of the True Religion Yes.
RACIST-Really annoying communist inspired silencing tactic
Robert. When you come to Grande Prairie, be ready to tell us about the economic jihad that is killing the Alberta oil industry. I’ll see you then.
Western Canadian says
I have always been amazed at how utterly, impossibly, adamantly, bloody ignorant and outright stupid that anyone who calls themselves either or both ‘progressive’ or ‘enlightened’ truly are. In a pulpit, an editorial room, political office, university, on a soap box, a talking head or teacher, it doesn’t matter. They are all not just shabbily educated, but miss-educated. Inculcated with and by the church of Marx, the most ignorant in incompetent, are without exception so convinced of their own inborn superiority and perfection, that they are literally psychotic. Anyone who uses the words ‘progressive’ or ‘enlightened’ to describe themselves while using the words’bigot’, ‘racist’, ‘nazi’ etc. to describe those they are trying to crush, is an enemy of all mankind. If they survive, call them muslims or democrats or ‘christian socialist’, humanity will not.
Alabamagal says
I just left a contact message with the Interfaith Action for Human Rights regarding their banner.
I would love to see included, “Say no to anti-Semitism, say no to anti-Christianity bigotry”. Perhaps include atheism. I would also like to see who allows it to be displayed.
Kathy Brown, Esq. says
Your getting a return message from Rabbi Idiot and his pals? Approximately as likely as their muslim ‘partners’ sparing their lives. When Holy War breaks out I mean.
Under ‘useful idiot’ in the dictionary is this Rabbi’s face. You moron you.
Alabamagal says
Sarcasm
Linda Rivera says
The interfaith Banners declare: “We stand with our Muslim neighbors,” and another that says a particular house of worship “stands with Muslim Americans.”
As a Christian and as a Human Being, I stand with the HUGE numbers of the VICTIMS OF ISLAM — Christian, Jewish and other non-Muslim victims of Islam.
I stand with the estimated one million white Christian native British sex slave child victims of Muslim gang rapists/sex slavers in Britain and I stand with the huge numbers of white Christian European females raped and gang raped by Muslims SEXUAL TERRORISTS.
I stand with the thousands of Yazidi and Christian girls captured, gang raped and tortured by ISIS savages.
Our female victims in Britain, Europe and our sisters – Yazidi and Christian girls captured by ISIS for sex slaves Must ALL BE RESCUED and FREED.
Interfaith Churches and Synagogues Will NOT stand for, and appeal for Islam’s Terrorised, Suffering VICTIMS. They only speak out for NON-Victim Muslims.
Mark Swan says
Linda Rivera…I…And Others Here…I Am Sure Will Also Stand With You…Good Comment.
Demsci says
Very well said, and rightly so!
But your viewpoint will mostly fall on (their) deaf ears “” out there. At least that is my experience with such people, with among them very decent, conscientious, guilt-driven, fair-minded persons.
And why; because they perceive what you say as “painting all Muslims with the same brush”, declaring them ALL guilty. But they have the rocksteady principle that everybody is innocent until proven guilty.
And moreover such people defend Islam, the religion, if need be with lies and unfounded whitewashing, to defend the nice Muslims all around them. Even to the extent to deny that Islamic State is Islamic!!!
And even to the extent that they point out the so-called many variations in Islam and among Muslims when Islam and a part of Muslims are criticized,
but when it is time for them to praise and support Islam, which they feel compelled to do often, THEN they do portray Islam as some sort ONE TRUE GOOD RELIGION.
To me, THAT is their most pernicious lie, or ignorance, or misguided empathy, as the case may be. And they exacerbate this further by a tendency to shut and shout down all sorts of arguments in opposition to their “view” or “propaganda”. We should say in response that that is only their OPINION, not FACT.
And how could it be different where I live? In Rotterdam, Holland, where Muslims are everywhere, as 16 % of the population or so, and the Muslima’s are in big part recognizable by hijabs, which are ubiguitous.
If anything most fair-minded guilt-driven non-Muslims here are NICER and more careful to Muslims than they are to their fellow Christians, Atheists, Hindoes, JehovahWitnesses, what have you.
That seems to be the lay of the land.
dajjal says
For them I created “Islam 101 For Clergy & Congregants”. That page includes links to the pdf files embeeded in Islam 101 For Politicians plus “Allah Is Not God”, “Islam Is Demonic” and “The Defamation Of Jesus Christ”.
You can easily send its link to your clergyman if you have one and do not fear shunning or excommunication. You can download the files and use them as email attachments or embed them in blog posts.
Demsci says
And while the PC’s have this stubborn, obnoxious view and behavior, they; Whites, blacks, media, politicians, bemoan the “dangerous” rise of the anti-Islam-parties and politicians like Geert Wilders and Donald Trump everywhere, often treating them much much harsher and viewing them much more unfavorable than “Muslims in general, except of course the Tiny Minority of Terrorists”. Unbelievable! But that is still the majority here for you.
Demsci says
Come to think of it; we may suspect that this comes from “Love thy neighbor like thyself” Christian doctrine.
When we understand this, how should we rectify it?
Atheist7 says
The banner: “Say no to anti-Muslim Bigotry” is more dangerous than ISIS. ISIS is the enemy that we can see. “Say no to anti-Muslim bigotry” is the enemy that we cannot see. It has the power to corrupt the minds of those who read it. It confuses the difference between Islam – the religion of evil, and Muslims – the victims of that evil. Since the phrase couples anti-Muslim and bigotry, the assumption is that anyone who criticizes Islam is criticizing Muslims and is therefore a bigot. The only solution to that is re-education:
What we need is a New Banner. Perhaps:
“Support you Muslim Neighbors. Learn about Islam. www dot clever name dot com”
This website will have a Machiavellian nature. We don’t want even a hint that this site could be Islamophobic. Because if it does, the person would immediately turn away and never be seen again. Everything would initially have to be pro-Islam and pro-Muslim. For example, start with how wonderful and peaceful Muhammad was as a sweet Guy in Mecca, cite all the good things that came out of the golden age of Islam – and don’t say anything bad about Islam until the person is involved. Then gradually introduce the bad stuff. Not too bad at first. Just a little bad. Then tell the stories of Muhammad in Medina and Tamerlane anywhere. Talk about Sharia Law and how it effectively enslaves people.
Then talk about other religions, but don’t single out Christianity and give it a special place – even if that is your view. Show how most religions are uplifting, beneficial, of social value and are compatible with other religions and secular law. Show that unlike the other religions, Islam cannot co-exist with other religions, cannot exist with secular law, and is the world’s most intolerant religion. Finally, make the case that Muslims are basically good people who are actually victims of their religion.
The main purpose here is to win all people to the understanding that Islam in NOT a religion of peace and that Islamic Doctrine demands that the entire world be converted to Sharia Law.
dajjal says
That concept has been partially implemented. I do not recall where I saw it on the web, but the ‘slimes immediately put up a debunking site to combat it. That site really galled their gears!
“The True Furquan”, in the form of a book,is an early effort along similar lines. It, too pisses off ‘slimes with great passion.