“Faith Presbyterian Church and Ahmadiyya Muslim Community host program in Indianapolis to fight fear of Islamic faith with knowledge.” So says the article “What you need to know about ISIS and Islam,” Olivia Lewis, Indianapolis Star, March 19, 2016:
The best way to disband fear is to educate, said the hosts of a faith-based event on ISIS and the Islamic religion.
The best way to educate oneself about Islam is to read and re-read, with appropriate commentary, the Qur’an and Hadith and Sira. The least good way is to limit oneself to the taqiyya-and-kitman of Muslim apologists. Educating oneself about Islam, its texts and teachings, is more likely to increase alarm than to “disband fear.” In particular, the realization that the Qur’an contains 109 so-called “Jihad verses” calling for warfare against non-Muslims, until they convert to Islam, or are killed, or accept the permanently inferior status of “dhimmi,” and that this Qur’an is regarded as immutable, is hardly likely to relieve Infidel worry. The more you learn about Islam, the more worried you become.
More than 100 people were at Faith Presbyterian Church in Indianapolis on Saturday for an event with the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community of Indiana to condemn the violence of the Islamic State, or ISIS, and to inform others of the peaceful intent of most in the Muslim community.
“We want to tell everybody that those terrorists and extremists do not represent Islam,” said Muzaffar Ahmab, spokesman for the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community of Indiana. “They have a distorted view of Islamic teachings.”
How many terrorist attacks by Muslims, all over the world, would it take for a person of common sense to come to the conclusion that “those terrorists and extremists” do “represent Islam”? There have been more than 28,000 separate terrorist attacks by Muslims since 9/11/2001. These have often accompanied by the Islamic war cry of “Allahu akbar” – the supremacist “Our God Is Greater” — or by the chanting of verses from the Qur’an. Triumphalist manifestos have been issued by the Islamic State, justifying its murderous behavior by citing verses in the Qur’an. And what conceivable peaceful interpretation could be given to such Qur’anic verses as “We will put terror into the hearts of the unbelievers (Jews and Christians). They serve other Gods for whom no sanction has been revealed. Hell shall be their home; dismal indeed is the dwelling place of the evil-doers.” (Qur’an 3:149), or “Do you fear the unbelievers (Jews and Christians)? Surely Allah is more worthy of your fear. If you are true believers make war on them; Allah will chastise them through you and humble them. He will grant you victory over them and heal the spirit of the faithful.” (Qur’an 9:14) or this one, chanted while mass beheadings are being filmed: “Satan has gained possession of the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) and caused them to forget Allah’s warnings. They are the confederates of Satan; Satan’s confederates shall assuredly be lost in hell. The Believers are the confederates of Allah (Hizbollah); and Allah’s confederates shall surely triumph.” (Qur’an 58:19).
Yet we are asked to please ignore all that and a hundred sundry verses more, and allow ourselves to believe Muzaffar Ahmab: “Those terrorists and extremists do not represent Islam.”
In a two-hour presentation, speakers from both the Muslim and Christian communities spoke about peace, prayer and their beliefs. David Carlson, a professor of religious studies at Franklin College, spoke about the political differences between the U.S. and the Middle East. People often try to speak with him after his presentations.
“A lot of people say ‘I realized I don’t know anything about Islam,’ ” Carlson said.
Ahmab, treasurer of Ahmadiyya, said the organization partners with churches to host events like this to counter the message of Islamic extremists.
Ahmab said there is a misconception that all Muslims are the same and that ISIS is targeting Christians and Jews. However, Ahmab said the extremists have also killed Muslims who say they don’t agree with the violence.
“Organizations like ISIS are a threat to the safety and security of this world, of our country,” Ahmab said.
During the question-and-answer period, Yahya Luqman, an Imam for the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community in Indiana, Ohio and Michigan, told the crowd that verses from the Quran that are quoted in the media are often taken out of context, which relay a false perception of violence.
The problem is not some misconception that “all Muslims are the same,” but that the core text of Islam – the Qur’an – is violent, does preach and teach the need to hate and fight the Infidel, and is a text both immutable and uncreated, which all Muslims are supposed to accept as authoritative. And the figure of Muhammad as presented in the Hadith and Sira is perhaps even more disturbing. For Muhammad, presented as exemplary for all time, as the Perfect Man, al-insan al-kamil, the Model of Conduct, uswa hasana – turns out to be a blood-drenched warrior who watched with pleasure and participated in the cold-blooded killing of 600-900 bound prisoners of the Banu Qurayza, had people murdered for mocking him in verse (Abu Afak, Asma Bint Marwan), attacked the inoffensive Jewish farmers of the Khaybar Oasis so as to seize their property and their women, and consummated his marriage to little Aisha (betrothed to him at the age of 6) when she was all of nine years old. And that is only part of what the exemplary Muhammad left as his legacy.
When the Ahmadi apologist Ahmab implies that it is a “misconception” that ISIS is “targeting [only] Christians and Jews” because “extremists have also killed Muslims,” he is merely repeating standard Muslim apologetics: Muslims, too, have been killed in terrorist attacks, so the terrorist attacks, it is claimed, could not “represent Islam.” Muslims who worked in the Twin Towers died on September 11, 2001. But they were unavoidable, and incidental, not intended victims; there was no way for Al Qaeda to filter out the Muslims working at the World Trade Center in advance. The latest bombs in Brussels may have killed a Muslim or two, along with many non-Muslims, but this does not mean that Muslims, too, were targeted and therefore the bombs “did not represent Islam.” And when ISIS deliberately kills Muslims in Iraq and Syria, it is not “because they are Muslims,” but because ISIS, or Al-Qaeda, or other takfiris, have concluded that these were not real Muslims and could be dealt with – tortured, killed – as non-Muslims.
Luqman read part of a verse from the Quran that referenced “kill them wherever you meet them … drive them out where they have driven you out,” he read. Then he read the lines preceding and a line that followed, completing the verse.
“It actually means only commit violence as an act of defense,” Luqman said.
Qur’an 2:191-2:193 is about the offensive war to be made on the Meccans. At the time Muhammad was securely in control of Medina; no one was about to attack him there. Verse 190 refers to those who, in Mecca, continued to resist Muslim rule. It is the Muslims who are on the offensive, preparing to drive the Meccans out of their city unless they accept the rule of Allah. From the website The Religion of Peace:
Quran (2:191-193) – “And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing…but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)” (Translation is from the Noble Quran) The verse prior to this (190) refers to “fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you” leading some to believe that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families. The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). Verse 190 thus means to fight those who offer resistance to Allah’s rule (ie. Muslim conquest). The use of the word “persecution” by some Muslim translators is disingenuous (the actual Arabic words for persecution – “idtihad” – and oppression – a variation of “z-l-m” – do not appear in the verse). The word used instead, “fitna”, can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. This is certainly what is meant in this context since the violence is explicitly commissioned “until religion is for Allah” – ie., until unbelievers desist in their unbelief.
The Imam said Muslim means peacemaker and Islam means peace. Luqman said the people committing the violent acts of ISIS and other extremists groups should not be calling themselves Muslims.
This is a standard and deliberate mistranslation by Muslim apologists. “Islam” does not mean “peace.” It means “submission,” and the Muslim is the one who submits to the dictates of Allah. No matter how often the correction is made, the deliberately soothing mistranslation continues to be offered by apologists, and to be accepted by too many of their incurious Infidel auditors who don’t bother to consult — it’s a click away — an online dictionary. (Hint: try asking all-knowing Google “what does Islam mean?”)
“It’s important for us to show to people, especially those who are unfamiliar with the Quran, what is happening in the Middle East and other places with these horrendous acts, and violence and bloodshed.”
The Imam wants to show those – “especially those who are unfamiliar with the Quran,” who thus will find history is silly putty in his hands – that all these ISIS atrocities, these “horrendous acts and violence and bloodshed” have nothing to do with Islam.
Fareeha Rehman of West Lafayette traveled to Indianapolis for the event. She brought her three daughters and their friend.
Rehman said her family, like other American families, fear extremist groups like ISIS. She and her husband own a grocery store in West Lafayette and two of their four children attend Purdue University.
Rehman said she brought her daughters to the event to encourage them to spread the message of peace in Islam. However, Rehman said she also wants her children to be able to stand up for each other when their peers express fear.
“People in the United States think we are different, but we are the same as you,” Rehman said. “We are American citizens, we love America because we live here and this is our home. We don’t want this, we discourage this.”
Does someone’s merely living within a given geographic area, and attaining the citizenship associated with that geographic area – living in the United States, say, and acquiring American citizenship through naturalization or birth– mean that that someone is “the same as you”? What does it mean to “be an American”? Would it not mean, in the most important and irreducible sense, that you subscribe to the Constitution, that document at the heart of our civil religion, which means to subscribe to a shared set of beliefs? And these beliefs would include the individual’s right to the freedom of speech and to the freedom of religion, and a belief that the legitimacy of any government depends on its reflecting, however imperfectly through elections, the will expressed by the people. Islam, on the other hand, insists on limiting the freedom of speech (if, for example, such speech is held to blaspheme Muhammad or otherwise call aspects of Islam into question) and the freedom of religion (punishing apostates even with death), and ascribing legitimacy to a government or ruler insofar as that government or ruler reflects the will expressed by Allah in the Qur’an, rather than—as in the American system — the will expressed by the people through elections.
Laurel Toney, an Indianapolis resident, said she attended the event to learn more about Islam. The 71-year-old said she learned of the “horrible positions” Muslims and American soldiers have been put in when faced with child soldiers due to the ISIS regime. She also said she learned about the difference between the religion and the extremists.
“The biggest takeaway is that we really need to pray for our fellow Muslim Americans and Muslims throughout the world,” Toney said.
“Hopefully they’ll be praying for us, because we need to build relationships with each other. That’s the best way to defeat the extremists.”
Laurel Toney innocently chose one of the least trustworthy venues to “learn about Islam” – an evening of sly taqiyya, by the most presentable and persuasive of Muslims, the Ahmadis. Though they are persecuted by other Muslims in Pakistan (where, for example, Ahmadis are not allowed to list “Islam” as their religion on official documents, are subject to the same mistreatment as Christians and other full-fledged Infidels), and are persecuted and have even been killed for their beliefs in more than a dozen other Muslim countries, in this country Ahmadis have taken it upon themselves to become the stoutest defenders of, and apologists for, Islam. These are the unorthodox Muslims to whom Laurel Toney came to “learn more about Islam” that night. She was told things she lacked the background or desire to question: she “learned about the difference between the religion and the extremists” (that was easy, that was quick), and that “we really need to pray for our fellow Muslim Americans and Muslims throughout the world,” and that if we “build relationships with each other,” that’s the “best way to defeat the extremists.” If only Homeland Security had thought of that.
In other words, like all the other well-meaning Infidels who showed up that night, Laurel Toney was subjected to interfaith-healing racketeers well-versed in cozening the gullible, and left full of the feelgood notion that we should all, Muslims and non-Muslims alike, be praying for one another. If the Muslims were to pray for non-Muslims, the only prayer they might conceivably offer would be that the non-Muslims see the error of their ways, and “revert” to Islam.
The question arises: did other Muslims, the real Muslims, refuse to come to this evening because they did not want to show up with Ahmadis and seem to be endorsing the Ahmadi claim to be real Muslims? Or could it be that the Ahmadis who organized the meeting didn’t want to appear side-by-side with the real Muslims who, they knew, might express doubts as to the Islam-ness of the Ahmadis, or even treat them publicly with contempt? It would be wonderful if non-Muslims who have educated themselves about Islam were to attend these gatherings, and insistently question the Ahmadis about what Ahmadis believe, why Ahmadiyya Islam is regarded by other Muslims as something other than the real thing, and how, as a consequence, Ahmadis are mistreated all over the Muslim world. Now that would have provided what the organizers of this evening claim to have wanted all along — that is, an “education in Islam.” And that’s something devoutly to be wished.

A says
Dark humor from Soviet times:
Americans were dumfounded at famous Moscow Zoo exhibit featuring huge lion peacefully lying with a lamb…
Khruschev explained: “It’s simple… we just get new lamb every day.”
El Cid says
The apologetic response typical of the Ahmadiyya should be a lesson to everyone.
This is a group of people who are suffering persecution because they are a religious minority. Other Muslims don’t even acknowledge that they are Muslim.
But, that is precisely how Islam works–Sunnis kill Shias and vice versa over who is ‘pure’.
So, the Ahmadiyya teach us that ISIS are not ‘real Muslims’ and the President agrees.
How useless is that argument? Neither the Sunnis or the Shias are ‘real Muslims’ to the Ahmadiyya.
mortimer says
Ahmadis are the worst kind of dhimmis, living in fear of the Sunnis and kissing the Sunnite hands that whip, beat, rape, rob, burn, imprison, execute and destroy them.
Ahmadi brainwashing is a form of the Stockholm syndrome.
Westman says
It’s even worse treatment for the Baha’i. And again they make sure you know that they are not like the other 99% MAJORITY of Muslims who persecute them and aren’t “real” Muslims.
mortimer says
Ahmadi disinformation begins the moment Ahmadis open their mouths and utter the word ‘Muslim’. Ahmadism is a new religion, different from classical, canonical Islam.
Ahmadism differs from Sunnite Islam by having deutero-canonical writings that are considered ‘bida’ (innovation) or ‘heresy’ (a Western word) by canonical Sunnite Muslims.
Ahmadism is to classical Islam, what Jehovah’s Witnesses or Mormons are compared to the Roman Catholic Church. They are new religions, created in the 19th century, through new ‘revelations’ that add to and supplement the original foundational sacred texts with new and hetero-canonical doctrines.
The Presbyterians of Faith Church have shown they are not only gullible and naïve, but also wilfully uninformed about Islamic teachings.
Gullibility and Pollyanna-ism are not Christian charity, but foolishness. “Be wise as serpents…”, said Jesus.
Faith Church is being as wise as a dodo bird.
RonaldB says
You’re right on target.
The Ahmadi religion was begun by a self-proclaimed prophet who used to be an imam. Islam and the Koran specifically declare Muhammad the last of the prophets, so there is a problem right there.
Another problem is the vast literature of the Islamic sharia, which has been developed over a thousand years, based on the Koran, hadiths, and life of Muhammad, and which is not at all ambiguous or subject to change.
I think the Ahmadi pick and choose their Koran and hadith to achieve their own purposes.
Now, the question is, are they substantially different from other Muslims? There are two parts to the question:
1) Are they personally capable of violence?
2) Do they lend specific political support and cover for Islamic violence?
I think there is a third question: to what extent do they support the political installation of sharia as law, assuming it can be done without violence? Including the provisions concerning dimmitude, the installation of the caliph, and the treatment of women?
The fact is, the Ahmadis are perfectly capable of religious violence.
‘He has asked the Muslims not to display weakness or distress, but to keep in mind their obligations of Jihad for the upholding of Islam and Muslims.’
https://www.alislam.org/books/truth/israel.html
Ah Ahmadi, Abdus Salaam, was responsible for the nuclear program in Pakistan leading to the development of nuclear weapons for Pakistan which may yet end up killing hundreds of millions of people.
I don’t think there’s any question, as shown by the interfaith meeting itself, that the Ahmadis provide political cover for militant Islam. By the way, the interfaith movement is very ably analyzed by Stephen Coughlin in his book “Catastrophic Failure”. The doctrine of interfaith is not simply to get to know other religions, but to modify your religious beliefs so as to develop common areas of belief. And Muslims will never modify their beliefs in response to kufir…so, all the movement is on the part of the non-Muslim sheep.
I honestly don’t know the Ahmadi position on political Islam and the institution of sharia through non-violent means. I don’t know if they have a formal position on that, or if their taquiya is so strong that they sweep it under the rug in their public presentations.
The question is, why do they carry water for Islam when they themselves are persecuted by orthodox Muslims and treated as apostates? My own view is that they are still Muslims, and the only real contribution of Islam is the mandate to spread itself. In Darwinian terms, the Ahmadi represent a strain of a deadly bacteria which has moderated itself a bit so as to not kill its host immediately, thus somewhat limiting its chances to spread.
But, the orthodox strains of the Islamic virus seem to be doing so well, with toxic leaders like Merkel, Obama, and Cameron, that the (perhaps) more moderate strain of Ahamadi Islamic virus is not needed.
Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY) says
“Islam and the Koran specifically declare Muhammad the last of the prophets.”
Hello, Ronald B. Sorry to be so ignorant, but would you please justify your use of the word “specifically”? What passage in the Quran or hadiths says that there will be no prophets after Muhammad (pbuh)? (By the way, “(pbuh)” is appended to “Muhammad” as a sign of contempt.)
Jack Diamond says
“Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the Messenger of God and the last (end) of the Prophets. And God is Ever All-Aware of everything. S. 33:40 Hilali-Khan
Tafsir Ibn Kathir: (6:124). This Ayah clearly states that there will be no Prophet after him. If there will be no Prophet after him then there will surely be no Messenger after him either, because the status of a Messenger is higher than that of a Prophet, for every Messenger is a Prophet but the reverse is not the case.
Imam Ahmad recorded that Anas bin Malik, may Allah be pleased with him, said that the Messenger of Allah said: (Messengership and Prophethood have come to an end, and there will be no more Messengers or Prophets.)
Jubayr bin Mut`im, may Allah be pleased with him, said that he heard the Messenger of Allah say:
I have several names: I am Muhammad, and I am Ahmad; I am Al-Mahi (the eradicator) through whom Allah will erase disbelief; I am Al-Hashir (the gatherer) at whose feet mankind will gather; and I am Al-`Aqib (the final one) after whom there will be no Prophet.) It was also recorded in the Two Sahihs. And there are many other Hadiths on this topic. Allah has told us in His Book, and His Messenger has told us in the Mutawatir Sunnah, that there will be no Prophet after him, so that it may be known that everyone who claims this status after him is a liar and fabricator who is misguided and is misguiding others.
RonaldB says
Thanks, Jack Diamond,
I did not have the quotes. You did. Great work.
Sam Shamoun (just looked it up via Google) has a somewhat different take on this: Jesus returns as a Muslim prophet, but is not a new prophet.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/last_prophet.htm
For laughs, watch this YouTube where Sam Shamoun, David Wood, and Robert Spencer use great comedy to wring out Reza Aslan’s book.
Descendantofacrusader says
Why is it that these Indiana Episcopal “Christians” are acting as enablers for a “religion” which seeks to utterly destroy them? Christians, of all people, should plainly understand that Islam is the anticedant of their own religion and should thus be leading the efforts to reveal the lie of Mohammed. The world needs less useful idiots as these!
Pere LaChaise says
Presbyterians are a gullible bunch and have the most tenuous relationship to historical Christianity. I can tell you that no Orthodox clergy would ever be so stupid as to invite heretics and apostates into his church to deceive his flock. The so-called pastor of this community (NOT a church by canonical standards set by St. Cyprian of Carthage) is the worst kind of fool, the blind leading the blind, a cloud without water in it.
celticwarriorcanada says
“Presbyterians are a gullible bunch and have the most tenuous relationship to historical Christianity. ” Well in one way I can appreciate why you would think this Pere, particularly this Presbyterian group . And if you are in Canada and have had dealings with the Presbyterian Church of Canada , I could really understand ! Because there are Presbyterians like Donald Trump (no offence to him!!!) who obviously do not really follow what Presbyterians believe;then their are devout Presbyterians who believe fervently in the Bible and The Westminister Standards , which by the way, endorses the Three Ecumenical Creeds. Presbyterian groups which uphold these standards like The Bible Presbyterian Denomination in the U.S. would never Permit this in their Churches . Why not? Because they are committed to Upholding The Chalcedonian understanding of the two natures of Jesus Christ and the Trinity. Islam with its Arian view of Jesus would not be tolerated ! Presbyterianism as a Reformation movement in Scotland challenged Militarily ,The Divine Right of Kings mentality, and no doubt contributed to The American Constitution , Particularly the First and Second Amendments. The same ideas are found in Samuel Rutherford’s Lex Rex ,as well as in The Documents of The Scottish Covenanters ,and even in the Footnotes of The Geneva Bible ! But your right that some Presbyterian Groups definitely have abandoned their historical roots !
nacazo says
Ahmadis are deluded. They are peaceful but not muslim. The problem is that they claim to have real islam and the other 99 percent muslim (shiites and sunnis) are not muslim. Then their disinformation campaign starts.
Descendantofacrusader says
Correction: the word should have been “Presbyterians”.
Hindu American says
Folks,
This victimhood approach is getting stale. Lets imagine that the lawyers (call them – Der Apologists) representing Nazis had taken the same islamic/victimhood approach in their clients’ defense during the Nuremberg trials.
First, here’s what the various Ahmedis said in the recent “love fest” at various times:
“Ahmab said there is a misconception that all Muslims are the same and that ISIS is targeting Christians and Jews. However, Ahmab said the extremists have also killed Muslims who say they don’t agree with the violence. “Organizations like ISIS are a threat to the safety and security of this world, of our country,” Ahmab said. During the question-and-answer period, Yahya Luqman, an Imam for the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community in Indiana, Ohio and Michigan, told the crowd that verses from the Quran that are quoted in the media are often taken out of context, which relay a false perception of violence. The Imam wants to show those – “especially those who are unfamiliar with the Quran,” who thus will find history is silly putty in his hands – that all these ISIS atrocities, these “horrendous acts and violence and bloodshed” have nothing to do with Islam.”
Now, here’s how the Apologists could have put it in Nuremberg (you know, blame the Ukrainian and Latvian SS):
“Der Apologist said there is a misconception that all Nazis are the same and that only the SS were targeting Gypsies and Jews. However, Der Apologist said the extremists have also killed moderate and family oriented Nazis who say they don’t agree with the camps. “Organizations like SS were the real threat to the safety and security of this world, of Europe, of our peaceful intentions,” Der Apologist said. During the question-and-answer period, Der Apologist, an attorney for Nazis for Peaceful Coexistence in Greater Germany, told the judges that verses from the Mein Kampf that are quoted in the media are often taken out of context, which relayed a false perception of our intentions for peaceful co-existence. Der Apologist wanted to show those – “especially those who are unfamiliar with Mein Kampf,” that all these SS atrocities, these “horrendous acts and violence and bloodshed” have nothing to do with Nazism or moderate Nazis.”
In the end, please note the clever word play muslims use? After all, what’s the difference between the two?
Angemon says
Ahmadis are not legally allowed to enter Mecca. Meaning, they’re deemed to be non-muslims, or heretics.
Bygeorge says
Islam does not mean peace. It means submission. Therefore, if one wants peace he achieves it through submission, to Islam, aka: Allah.
Dov Berrol says
Can Jihadwatch recommend a useful English translation of the Koran and Sira and Hadiths? There are many on the market and we JW readers could benefit from a wise recommendation.
rara says
I suggest you start from the abridged version of everything for the start. The “full texts” are also good to have but hadiths are huge, a lot of books, and there are a lot of repeats.
https://www.politicalislam.com/product/the-political-traditions-of-mohammed/
Koran has also many repeats. Start from the condensed version first:
https://www.politicalislam.com/product/an-abridged-koran/
Then buy the some whole book to see how it looks the “full one” and to be able to quote from the source.
Have fun marking all the “evil” parts in the “full” version — not many unmarked chapters remain!
rara says
And online, the “live” links to the most of intolerance parts of Quran:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/int/long.html
and to the most of cruelty parts:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/cruelty/long.html
But note that the author may have missed some parts (it’s too easy to overlook some!)
Western Canadian says
That site is not very good, frankly. It concludes that the Bible is massively more violent than the bloody and hate filled koran, which is a crock…. The section dealing with violence and cruelty in the koran, is incredibly poor…. Not a single reference to many phrases which, if understood, and vicious in their cruelty. Such as ‘that your right hand commands’, giving permission to rape female civilians taken in war…. And since the Jewish/Christian belief system has two books and covers over 3,000 years, the 1400 years of islams bloodbath should access total up the cruelty in the other islamic texts…
rara says
To Western Canadian: do you know better which links directly to the verses? I don’t. If anybody would like to develop better reference, please! But until then he’s the only one who took the time, energy and resources to make it and keep it alive on the Internet. Which is not easy.
And I don’t care if somebody who cares about the Bible gets offended. The “god” of the Old Testament, he-who-can’t-be-named, is also quite evil guy.
rara says
And don’t forget Robet Spencer’s book too!
http://www.jihadwatch.org/books/the-complete-infidels-guide-to-the-koran
Dov Berrol says
Thank you so much rara. Though Mohammedans probably love the idea that their current jihad is causing infidels to read the Koran, we proud kuffars need to know what we are dealing with here. Every synagogue and church should now have Koran classes taught by those that have converted to some other faith. Robert is correct when he says we must know the ideology that endangers western civilization.
Walter Sieruk says
Interfaith fellowship meetings between Christians and Muslims are a hoax.This is because,as the Bible teaches in Amos 3:3. “Can two walk together ,except they be agreed ?” For the Bible view about the every Nature of Jesus and the Koranic view about the nature of Jesus are in very strong contrast. That is contrast in the extreme. It’s a good thing to define what Islam really is .Of the many ways Islam may be described, one of them is that a religion of denial. Meaning that Islam denies that Jesus is the Son of God. As in the Son of God Who is God the Father. Furthermore, Islam denies the Jesus is God the Son. In addition, Islam denies that Jesus is God. Before going over these tree denials of Islam it first should the stated the Bible instructs the way to tell if a prophet or religious teacher is really from and of God or not is do the teachings and doctrines of that prophet of teacher really fit in accord what is found in the Bible ? For if that prophet or teachers and teachers doctrines that are in contradiction to the Bible then that prophet is a false prophet and that religious teacher is a false teacher and thus in doctrinal error and darkness. Likewise if a religion had teachings and doctrines that are in contradiction that is religion is in error also part of the world of darkness and is therefore a false religion. As the Bible instructs in Isaiah 8:20. “To the law of the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.” [K.J.V.] With this clearly stated, three things should be known. First, that Islam denial that Jesus is the Son of God is in great contradiction to the teaching of the Bible . Which reveals the Jesus is the Son of God? As seen in ,for example Matthew 3:16,17. 16:15,16. Luke 1:35. John 3:16, 17, 36. First John 2:22,23. 4:14,15. 5:12,13. Second, that Islam denies that Jesus is God the Son is in strong contradiction to the Bible. As found in Hebrews 1:6-8. With emphasis on verse 8. Third, Islam’s denial that Jesus is God is in great contrast to the doctrine and teaching of the Bible. That Jesus is God may be found in ,for example, John 1:1;3. Colossians 1:15-17. Romans 9:5 Second Peter 1:1. Titus 2:13. First John 5:20. Moreover, to further discover that the Bible teachings that Jesus is God all a person has to do is to compare the Old Testament with New Testament to see that Jesus is God. As in comparing Isaiah 45:22,23. with Philippians 2:5-11. Also by comparing Psalm 89:8,9. with Mathew 8:23-27. will reveal that Jesus is God. Likewise , by comparing Psalm 62:5-7 . with First Corinthians 10:4. shows the Deity of Jesus. Even by comparing the News Testament books together will show that Jesus is God. As in comparing Romans 14:12. with John 5:22. will show Jesus to be God. The list can go on but this should be enough, for all who are willing to see the truth , that Jesus is, indeed, the Son of God. That Jesus is God the Son and that Jesus is God. The imams and mullahs as well as the other apologists for Islam will try to “explain’ this all away by making the claim that the Bible had been corrupted by Christians ,through time, and that’s way the Bible reads as it does. This claim, very much, underestimate the Power of God to protect and preserve His Word ,through time , and to keep in intact and away from the corruption of men. In conclusion, in light and information of the Bible in can be seen that Islam is a awful and terrible doctrinal error concerning it teaching about the Nature of Jesus and therefore Islam is part of the world of darkness. So Islam with its strong contradictions to the Bible is a false religion, Proverbs 14:12. So all dear Muslims are thus invited to leave the false religion of Islam and come the and receive the Jesus of the Bible who is the only way to heaven ,John 14:6. And the True Light of the world. John 8:12.
Walter Sieruk says
Interfaith “worship” with both Christians and Muslims is nothing but a farce. For these kind of warped and false “worship services ” are base on the false premise the both Christian and Muslims believe in the same God.To put in another way,there are a number of imams and other Muslim apologists for Islam, in America, who have made the claim that both the Christians and the Muslims worship the same God. Likewise, there have been quite a number of “Christian” pastors who have made this same claim. Nevertheless, there remains the question it that claim true and valid or is it a false and invalid claim? The reality is that the god of Islam, which is the god of the Muslims, is a single being. In contrast the God of Christianity is much more complex. In that the God Who the Christian worship is the Triune God. Who is one and only God is in composed of, by His Own Nature, the Trinity. The Trinity may be defined as “Within the essence of the one God there are Three distinct Persons. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Otherwise known as the Tri-Personal Nature of God. Matthew 3:13-17. Second Corinthians 13:14. Moreover, in the book entitled MAJOR BIBLE THEMES by Lewis Sperry Chafter in page39 in informs the reader that “Many believe the the doctrine of the Trinity in implicit in the use of the word Elohim ,as a name for God which is in a plural form and seems to refer to the Triune God.” Likewise, in the Christian magazine PERHAPS TODAY, November-December 2013.on page 8 about Genesis 11 it reads “In the beginning God [this is the plural noun Elohim, meaning ‘more than one’] created the heavens and the earth.” Furthermore, to give only a few examples of this Triune God of the Bible is that in Genesis 1:26 it teaches “”God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after our likeness…” The very next verse, 27, is further reads “So God made man in His own image is changes from the plural “Us” and “Our” to the singular “His.” If not at least a hint of the Trinity then there is an agreement error. In addition in the New Testament in Matthew 28:19 Jesus declared “Go ye therefore ,and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father ,and the Son and the Holy Ghost” [K.J.V.] That is in the “name” not “names” Furthermore the interworking of the Trinity together may be seen in that the Father sanctifies, First Thessalonians 5:23. The Son sanctifies Ephesians 5:26. Hebrews 2:11; 9:12,14; 13;12. The Holy Spirit sanctifies, Romans 15:16. Second Thessalonians 2:13. Likewise, this may be further seen in that the Father raised Jesus from the dead, Romans 10:9,10. The Son raised Himself from the dead, John 2:19-21. The Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead, Romans 8:11. In conclusion, claim that the Christian and Muslim believe in and worship the same god is totally false. For by the Bible as well as logic and reason the god of Islam is not the God of Christianity. Likewise, the God of the Bible is not the god of the Koran.
RonaldB says
Walter,
May I suggest you avail yourself of a relatively new development in the English language called the “paragraph”?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraph
Champ says
Great comment, Walter, thank you. And I agree that ‘allah’ is NOT the one true God of the Bible!
Kepha says
I looked up Faith Presb’s (PCUSA) website. It is described as a “welcoming church”, and one of the photos shows two men hand in hand walking towards the front. What does that mean in 21st century America?
It’s hard to say whether the “Mainline” so-called Protestant churches are truly Protestant Christian anymore. But, I suppose, if the people of Judah in the days of Amon and Manasseh were still Jews (even after worshiping Ba’al, Ashtoreth, and passing their firstborns through the fire), we had better see that in some sense these poor, deluded souls are still somehow Christians. Now for a question: when will the Ahmadis admit that Jesus of Nazareth was God’s Messiah and the final revelation of God to man?
Laura says
I think, Kepha, that the difference is that in the Jewish community, if your mother is a Jew, you are a Jew – it is a race; rather than the way it should be seen in Christianity – you aren’t truly a Christian unless and until you repent of your sins and confess Yeshua as Lord. Somehow, Christians have decided that because they were born into a nominally Christian household, the offspring are Christian, despite not having confessed Yeshua. Much like sitting in a garage really doesn’t make you a car 🙂 Thus, you have our Presbyterian Trump, who has not a clue about what Christianity is about – repentance and grace.
I come at this viewpoint from my own experience growing up – in a Lutheran church – where I never heard about being “born again” or an altar call, going through life thinking I was Christian until some kind soul presented the Gospel (at age 23, 40 years ago) and I was saved.
Kepha says
Laura: I get where you’re coming from. I had the influences of highly modernized, liberal versions of Christianity (and, to a lesser extent, Judaism) presented to me as I was growing up, but wasn’t challenged with the Gospel until I was in my late teens, and by someone from outside the communion in which I was raised.
While I can’t find a single line in the NT about an “altar call”, I accept every jot and tittle about Christ and his work and stake my soul on it. But I will also note that my upbringing gave me some inkling that there’s a God, that Jesus was somehow an important person, and perhaps a few other preparations to receive the Gospel. Hence, while I have been in fellowship in Evangelical (mostly Reformed) churches my whole adult life, I continue to pray for God’s calling the Mainline back to its roots. Further, even if I’ve been a pretty bad father, I believe in giving one’s children a Christian upbringing.
And, having been profited much by conservative Presbyterian and Reformed churches, I groan when I consider Trump :(, who says he’s never asked God for forgiveness (isn’t it right there in the Lord’s Prayer?).
jewdog says
Islam is an abusive system and its apologists are enablers.
underbed cat says
They are working very hard at outreach. To softly, articulately draw in and mislead. It only works on the civilized population …….who could not conceive any faith built on jihad and have never had an interest in reading the Quran or Reliance of the Traveler.. Parts are talking about charity, and the parts talk about slaying, and not so peaceful ideas as a command.
Dacritic says
Hugh, brilliant as always.
Jihadophobic says
” when ISIS deliberately kills Muslims in Iraq and Syria, it is not “because they are Muslims,” but because …. these were not real Muslims …”
It’s a divine sacrifice ritual to appease a blood-thirsty god.
Kepha says
The learned fool Arnold Toynbee had a soft spot for the Ahmadis, and, on the basis of a few of his eccentric friends’ conversions thereto, believed it might end up the future religion of the West.
Australian Voice says
I used to be a pROTESTANT, now I am utterly ashamed of this pro-Islamic string of dying churches more worried about bringing in Muslim refugees than studying the scriptures. In Australia these mod-protestants are talking about creating church sanctuaries to protect illegal Islamic immigrants facing deportation, or removal to Nauru or Manus Island. Australia has a pretty good policy towards these illegal immigrants(namely force them back) if only the left and the so-called ‘Christian Churches ‘ would leave the Government alone. Oh and by the way add the publicly funded Australian Broadcasting Commission to that Group of pro-terrorist loving Islamifiers.
Cunamarra says
The best way for a predator to assuage the fear of the prey that is willfully gullible is to deceive them.
The best way for an enemy to prepare those he hates to be the victim is to abet the deception of the predator.
The best way for a friend to prepare those he loves for potential disasters is to train and educate them.
As a nation, our teachers and professors to whom we send our children and young people to “learn” from are not our friends. They are not friends to the young. They are not friends to our nation. They are not friends to all that is good in this world. Rare is the individual who escapes their evil machinations on the journey to maturity. The result is that no facet of our society has survived unscathed.
The product of our education system (and everyone is educated in the same school) is our ministers, our teachers and professors, our journalists, our lawmakers, policy makers, and statesmen.
The Church is treasonous unto itself. Academia is treasonous to the mind of man. Media is treasonous to truth. Laws concerning marriage and divorce are treasonous to the family. Government is treasonous to the Rights of Man.
All of this developed before and now exists independently of our contemporary introduction to Islam. Without it, Islam would be no more of a threat than an observed mosquito attempting to bite a man who had the ability, the will, and the prowess to kill it.
The Europeans have been so thoroughly infected with this hatred of the intellect and of reality that they are ripe and ready for (and my cynicism leads me to dare say deserving of) Islam. It will lay waste to the Europeans. Reality dictates that there is right and wrong, good and evil. European and American intellectuals have for generations taught that the mind cannot be made reliable enough to discern reality and therefore judge good from evil. Islam teaches Evil is good and Europeans having abandoned the intellect lack the ability to refute it or even recognize it.
The ancestors of the Europeans won their small victories against, and fleetingly staved off destruction from Islamic attacks through hard fighting. That hard fighting first took place in the mind through rigorous discipline in the use of reason and devotion to reality. The Reconquista, Lepanto, Vienna, would not have happened without it.
If we are to avoid rather than eclipse the disaster that the Europeans have earned for themselves we must lay waste to this creed of corruption that dominates and permeates our nation. This creed forbids and denies us the worthiness to triumph over evil.
chanah says
the Ahmadiyya Muslim are not real muslims according to both shiat and sunnis. I know because my ex downstairs neighbor where a ahmadi muslims he said that the sect where outlawed in Pakistan would he go back he most likely would be killed, I don’t know why sunnis and shiats say that the Ahamaiyya muslims are not real muslims because they also want to kill non-muslims and blame the Jews for everything under the sun
paul clark says
The ignorance of Islam just not prevail in the so-called enlightened Christian denominations, but also in most of the evangelicals and fundamentalist Christian denominations. Many are cold-warm social clubs. Their heads are so deeply buried in the sand, that even if they had to turn the other cheek, they wouldn’t know why? They are blind and refuse to recognize or even feel the genocide of Christians. Many are politically correct and do not want to shake the boat because they do not want to be bothered, slandered, called names or even exert energy to save their own children.
God help us. The Christians and politicians will eventually open the door the widest to invite the unholy in our midst for the our annihilation and Christianity.
I find many of the so-called Christians are lazy doubters. They would not sacrifice a broken fingernail for another. Many are a shameless bunch.
Yes, I am a Christian, but I find it difficult to love Christians that love like a Muslim. In the Koran it is obvious it is not about love, but peace only on Islam dominate terms. I find the same extremes in many Christian churches.
Clerinos