“I think Islam hates us,” Trump told CNN’s Anderson Cooper. “There’s something there that — there’s a tremendous hatred there. There’s a tremendous hatred. We have to get to the bottom of it.”
Indeed, we have to get to the bottom of it. That would be the Qur’an, which says:
2:65 Allah transforms disobedient Jews into apes
“And well you know there were those among you [Jews] that transgressed the Sabbath, and We said to them, “˜Be you apes, miserably slinking!”
2:89 Unbelievers, particularly Jews, are accursed
“When there came to them [Jews] a Book from Allah, confirming what was with them — and they aforetimes prayed for victory over the unbelievers — when there came to them that they recognized, they disbelieved in it; and the curse of Allah is on the unbelievers.
2:191-193 Fight and kill unbelievers until “religion is Allah’s,” i.e. Islamic law rules all societies
“And slay them wherever you come upon them, and expel them from where they expelled you; persecution is more grievous than slaying. But fight them not by the Holy Mosque until they should fight you there; then, if they fight you, slay them — such is the recompense of unbelievers, but if they give over, surely Allah is All-forgiving, All-compassionate. Fight them, till there is no persecution and the religion is Allah’s; then if they give over, there shall be no enmity save for evildoers.”
3:28 Don’t take unbelievers as friends and allies, unless it is for “fear of them,” i.e. deceptively for protection of oneself or of Islam
“Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends, rather than the believers — for whoso does that belongs not to Allah in anything — unless you have a fear of them. Allah warns you that You beware of Him, and unto Allah is the homecoming.”
3:110-112 Muslims are the best of people, Jews have earned Allah’s anger
“You are the best nation ever brought forth to men, bidding to honour, and forbidding dishonour, and believing in Allah. Had the People of the Book believed, it were better for them; some of them are believers, but the most of them are ungodly. They will not harm you, except a little hurt; and if they fight with you, they will turn on you their backs; then they will not be helped. Abasement shall be pitched on them, wherever they are come upon, except they be in a bond of Allah, and a bond of the people; they will be laden with the burden of Allah’s anger, and poverty shall be pitched on them; that, because they disbelieved in Allah’s signs, and slew the Prophets without right; that, for that they acted rebelliously and were transgressors.”
3:151 Terror
“We will cast into the hearts of the unbelievers terror, for that they have associated with Allah that for which He sent down never authority; their lodging shall be the Fire; evil is the lodging of the evildoers.”
3:181 Jews are bound for hell
“Allah has heard the saying of those who said, “˜Surely Allah is poor, and we are rich.” We shall write down what they have said, and their slaying the Prophets without right, and We shall say, “˜Taste the chastisement of the burning.–
4:3 Polygamy and sexual slavery
“If you fear that you will not act justly towards the orphans, marry such women as seem good to you, two, three, four; but if you fear you will not be equitable, then only one, or what your right hands own; so it is likelier you will not be partial.”
4:34 Beat disobedient women
“Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that Allah has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the secret for Allah’s guarding. And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them. If they then obey you, look not for any way against them; Allah is All-high, All-great.”
4:89 Kill apostates
“They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of Allah; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper.”
4:160 Jews do evil, turn people away from Allah
“And for the evildoing of those of Jewry, We have forbidden them certain good things that were permitted to them, and for their barring from Allah’s way many”¦”
5:17 Christians — believers in divinity of Christ — are unbelievers
“They are unbelievers who say, “˜Allah is the Messiah, Mary”s son.” Say: “˜Who then shall overrule Allah in any way if He desires to destroy the Messiah, Mary”s son, and his mother, and all those who are on earth?” For to Allah belongs the kingdom of the heavens and of the earth, and all that is between them, creating what He will. Allah is powerful over everything.”
5:33 Crucify or amputate the hands and feet of those who make war against Allah and Muhammad
“This is the recompense of those who fight against Allah and His Messenger, and hasten about the earth, to do corruption there: they shall be slaughtered, or crucified, or their hands and feet shall alternately be struck off; or they shall be banished from the land. That is a degradation for them in this world; and in the world to come awaits them a mighty chastisement.”
5:38 Amputate the hands of thieves
“And the thief, male and female: cut off the hands of both, as a recompense for what they have earned, and a punishment exemplary from Allah; Allah is All-mighty, All-wise.”
5:41 Jews listen to falsehood and pervert the meaning of their Scriptures
“O Messenger, let them not grieve thee that vie with one another in unbelief, such men as say with their mouths “˜We believe” but their hearts believe not; and the Jews who listen to falsehood, listen to other folk, who have not come to thee, perverting words from their meanings, saying, “˜If you are given this, then take it; if you are not given it, beware!” Whomsoever Allah desires to try, thou canst not avail him anything with Allah. Those are they whose hearts Allah desired not to purify; for them is degradation in this world; and in the world to come awaits them a mighty chastisement.”
5:51 Don’t take Jews and Christians as friends and allies
“O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Whoso of you makes them his friends is one of them. Allah guides not the people of the evildoers.”
5:59-60 Jews cursed, made into apes and swine
“Say: “˜People of the Book, do you blame us for any other cause than that we believe in Allah, and what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down before, and that most of you are ungodly?” Say: “˜Shall I tell you of a recompense with Allah, worse than that? Whomsoever Allah has cursed, and with whom He is wroth, and made some of them apes and swine, and worshippers of idols — they are worse situated, and have gone further astray from the right way.–
5:64 Jews accursed
“The Jews have said, “˜Allah’s hand is fettered.” Fettered are their hands, and they are cursed for what they have said. Nay, but His hands are outspread; He expends how He will. And what has been sent down to thee from thy Lord will surely increase many of them in insolence and unbelief; and We have cast between them enmity and hatred, till the Day of Resurrection. As often as they light a fire for war, Allah will extinguish it. They hasten about the earth, to do corruption there; and Allah loves not the workers of corruption.”
5:72 Christians are unbelievers
“They are unbelievers who say, “’Allah is the Messiah, Mary’s son.’ For the Messiah said, ‘Children of Israel, serve God, my Lord and your Lord. Verily whoso associates with Allah anything, Allah shall prohibit him entrance to Paradise, and his refuge shall be the Fire; and wrongdoers shall have no helpers.'”
5:82 Jews most hostile to the Muslims
“Thou wilt surely find the most hostile of men to the believers are the Jews and the idolaters; and thou wilt surely find the nearest of them in love to the believers are those who say “˜We are Christians”; that, because some of them are priests and monks, and they wax not proud.”
6:91 Jews deny, conceal divine revelations
“They measured not Allah with His true measure when they said, “˜Allah has not sent down aught on any mortal.” Say: “˜Who sent down the Book that Moses brought as a light and a guidance to men? You put it into parchments, revealing them, and hiding much; and you were taught that you knew not, you and your fathers.” Say: “˜Allah.” Then leave them alone, playing their game of plunging.”
6:146 Jews insolent
“And to those of Jewry We have forbidden every beast with claws; and of oxen and sheep We have forbidden them the fat of them, save what their backs carry, or their entrails, or what is mingled with bone; that We recompensed them for their insolence; surely We speak truly.”
7:166 Jews are apes
“And when they [Jews] turned in disdain from that forbidding We said to them, “˜Be you apes, miserably slinking!–
8:12 Allah will terrorize unbelievers; Muslims should behead them
“When thy Lord was revealing to the angels, “˜I am with you; so confirm the believers. I shall cast into the unbelievers” hearts terror; so smite above the necks, and smite every finger of them!–
8:39 Fight unbelievers until Islam reigns supreme
“Fight them, till there is no persecution and the religion is Allah’s entirely; then if they give over, surely Allah sees the things they do.”
8:60 Make war against enemies of Allah
“Make ready for them whatever force and strings of horses you can, to terrify thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others besides them that you know not; Allah knows them. And whatsoever you expend in the way of Allah shall be repaid you in full; you will not be wronged.”
9:5 Slay the idolaters
“Then, when the sacred months are drawn away, slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them, and confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent, and perform the prayer, and pay the alms, then let them go their way; Allah is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.”
9:28 Idolaters unclean
“O believers, the idolaters are indeed unclean; so let them not come near the Holy Mosque after this year of theirs. If you fear poverty, Allah shall surely enrich you of His bounty, if He will; Allah is All-knowing; All-wise.”
9:29 Fight and subjugate the Jews and Christians
“Fight those who believe not in Allah and the Last Day and do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden — such men as practise not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book — until they pay the tribute out of hand and have been humbled.”
9:30 Jews and Christians assailed by Allah
“The Jews say, “˜Ezra is the Son of Allah”; the Christians say, “˜The Messiah is the Son of Allah.” That is the utterance of their mouths, conforming with the unbelievers before them. Allah assail them! How they are perverted!”
9:31 Jews and Christians have taken their clergy and holy men as lords
“They have taken their rabbis and their monks as lords apart from Allah, and the Messiah, Mary”s son — and they were commanded to serve but One Allah; there is no god but He; glory be to Him, above that they associate.”
9:73 Be harsh with unbelievers
“O Prophet, struggle with the unbelievers and hypocrites, and be thou harsh with them; their refuge is Gehenna — an evil homecoming!”
9:111 Paradise guaranteed to those who kill and are killed for Allah
“Allah has bought from the believers their selves and their possessions against the gift of Paradise; they fight in the way of Allah; they kill, and are killed; that is a promise binding upon Allah in the Torah, and the Gospel, and the Koran; and who fulfils his covenant truer than Allah? So rejoice in the bargain you have made with Him; that is the mighty triumph.”
9:123 Fight the unbelievers, be harsh with them
“O believers, fight the unbelievers who are near to you; and let them find in you a harshness; and know that Allah is with the godfearing.”
47:4 Behead and slaughter the unbelievers; take others captive
“When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then, when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds; then set them free, either by grace or ransom, till the war lays down its loads. So it shall be; and if Allah had willed, He would have avenged Himself upon them; but that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will not send their works astray.”
48:29 Be merciful to believers, not unbelievers
“Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are hard against the unbelievers, merciful one to another.”
62:6 Jews should long for death
“Say: “’You of Jewry, if you assert that you are the friends of Allah, apart from other men, then do you long for death, if you speak truly.'”
98:6 Unbelievers are the worst of creatures
“The unbelievers of the People of the Book and the idolaters shall be in the Fire of Gehenna, therein dwelling forever; those are the worst of creatures.”
When Cooper pressed Trump on whether he was talking about “radical Islam” or “Islam itself,” Trump answered: “It’s radical but it’s very hard to define, it’s very hard to separate because you don’t know who’s who.”
He is right about that. For years it has been a staple of the “Islamophobia” propagandists’ dossier on me that I said there was no distinction between American Muslims and radical, violent jihadists — which the propagandists claim was tantamount to saying that all Muslims were terrorists. In fact, what I mean was that U.S. Muslim organizations have been slow to expel violent jihadists or report their activities, and so they move freely among peaceful Muslims. There is no institutional distinction between Muslims who reject jihad terror and those who embrace it, so jihadis move freely in Muslim circles among those who oppose them and claim to do so. In other words, there are no “jihadist” mosques and “moderate” mosques. There are just mosques, and there are both peaceful Muslims and jihadis in some of them. The Tsarnaev brothers, who bombed the Boston Marathon in April 2013, were members in good standing of the Islamic Society of Boston. The Hamas-linked Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), the nation’s most vocal Muslim organization, has counseled Muslims in the U.S. not to speak to the FBI.
So Trump is right: “It’s very hard to separate because you don’t know who’s who.”
“Trump: ‘I think Islam hates us.,’” by Jose A. DelReal, Washington Post, March 9, 2016:
Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump said Wednesday that be believes “Islam hates us,” and called on the United States to “expand” laws on using enhanced interrogation techniques against terrorist groups.
“I think Islam hates us,” Trump told CNN’s Anderson Cooper. “There’s something there that — there’s a tremendous hatred there. There’s a tremendous hatred. We have to get to the bottom of it. There’s an unbelievable hatred of us.”
Trump was responding to a question by Cooper about whether he believed the West is at war with Islam. Cooper asked Trump if he was referring to Islam at large or to radical elements within the faith.
“You’re going to have to figure that out,” Trump said. “But there’s a tremendous hatred and we have to be very vigilant, we have to be very careful and we can’t allow people coming into this country who have this hatred of the United States, and of people who are not Muslim. “
Cooper again pressed Trump on whether he was talking about “radical Islam” or “Islam itself.”
“It’s radical but it’s very hard to define, it’s very hard to separate because you don’t know who’s who,” Trump said.
The real estate mogul has been harshly criticized for advocating a temporary ban on Muslims from entering the United States, which he says is necessary because the country is not able to screen out terrorists from groups like the Islamic State….

Rita says
“I think Islam hates us,” Trump told CNN…”
I think Trump has a point !
Spot On says
Looks like he must first get past all the establishment politicians. This primary is like a long episode of Wiley Coyote and the Roadrunner with the establishment as Wiley Coyote.
Christianblood says
The great Donald Trump really needs someone like Robert Spencer, Pamela Geller or Bill Warner to advice him on the true sources of this islamic hatred which is the koran, mohamed and islam itself.
DJ says
Can you imagine the pleasure of watching Robert Spencer at the required confirmation hearings on Capitol Hill?
Peggy says
Robert and Pamela would be like a broom sweeping all the garbage out of the WH.
What a wonderful dream.
Any chance of it ever becoming a relity? No more MB fiends luring around the corridors.
abad says
I know where Trump is coming from – he is far more clever than a lot of people give him credit for – and if he plans on taking the United States of America into an isolationist period like I think he wants to do – that could be a HUGE benefit for our nation.
Close the damn borders for awhile. NOBODY is going to die if they don’t come to the United States of America.
NO ONE.
The can stay in their own nations for a complete and absolute change.
Myxlplik says
With Robert Spencer as Secretary of State, the enemies of freedom would be in real trouble.
Budvarakbar says
Just check out Ann Barnhardt’s you-tube videos — bacon book marked page by page koran explanation and burning — she put it up in 2010 — 6 eff’n years ago — for god’s sake folks – start getting up to speed!!!
vlparker says
@Face _the_ Truth
The UK probably will sever ties too.
Spot On says
Trump lives in a world of geniuses. One a genius at building skyscrapers, another a genius at perceived value, marketing genius, and on and on. Trump’s genius has been to successfully handle all these geniuses in a way that turns $1M into $10B over a number of years.
There are many decent politicians but the majority are totally corrupt. Special interests own them body and soul. Trump can break through this corrupt mess and hopefully straighten it out for our survival.
Islam has the world in a death grip by using these corrupt politicians and a corrupt MSM against us. With our military power, some political honesty can still kill this Islamic parasite. I believe the genius of Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller will be a treasure for President Donald J. Trump.
Luigi Valentino says
Trump have a meeting with Brigitte Gabriel, author of “Because They Hate.” She gave him a good schooling just last week.
nicu says
Of course they hate us !
Mr . Trump is right and may say this open !
Mr John says
Trump should ask if Americans are the people who don’t understand, like mentioned in the Quran, Sura 8:65:
“O Prophet, urge the believers to battle. If there are among you twenty [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome a thousand of those who have disbelieved because they are a people who do not understand.”
Mr John says
Even better, he could take phrase “We are the people who understand! (see Quran 8:65)” into use!
Godwin says
He is more than RIGHT.
mortimer says
Yes, Mr. Trump. Let’s get to the bottom of this, shall we? ALLAH HATES THE KAFIRS.
Koran 40:35 “They who dispute the signs (verses) of Allah without authority having reached them are greatly hated by Allah and the believers.” (Note: not just “hated”, but “greatly hated”.)
Koran 60:4 “We have rejected you, and there has arisen between us and you enmity and hatred, until you believe and worship Allaah alone.”
Simple. Concise. To the point.
ETERNAL HATRED OF THE DIRTY KAFIRS. And Mr. Trump…you are a kafir.
Jay Boo says
‘Kafir’ is (THEIR) word for us.
I am a proud INFIDEL to their phony carpet kissing ideology.
It is time that these foreigners learn to speak English and stop latching on to religious slurs of their Arabic hate speech.
Ralph Statum says
These Muslim’s Are Only 7th Century Inbred Barbaric Idiots… There Is A Place In HELL For These Idiots That Don’t Believe That Jesus Was The Son Of GOD And That Means No allah(Satan)… So When The Time Comes; There Will BE A Place In Burning Hell For All Of You Stupid Muslim’s That Worship SATAN….
TruthWFree says
I agree…the allah god is Satan.
balam says
It was actually Mohammed who hated the Jews and the Christian for not joining his Mafia cult called Islam.That hatred is eternal.
Godwin says
200% correct !
TruthWFree says
The Quran is supposed to be the allah god’s word to Muhammad..and the Quran is full of hate against unbelievers…99% of Americans. Islam needs to be outlawed in America…and in the world for that matter. Islam is a curse on mankind.
Christianblood says
mortimer
Very well-said indeed!
Megan says
Mr Trump clearly has the right instincts, as well as a healthy contempt for the political correctness that blinds everyone else to obvious truths. President Reagan told us: “Watch closely, and don’t be afraid to see what you see.” Mr Trump isn’t afraid. That’s a good first step.
Mr Trump would, of course, benefit tremendously from a thorough grounding in Robert Spencer’s work, and I hope at least one of their several mutual friends is trying to arrange a meeting in the very near future. Nothing would make me happier than to see Mr Spencer on Donald Trump’s National Security Advisory Committee, right next to Senator Jeff Sessions.
Jay Boo says
All these assumptions about Trump not knowing about Islam.
Look again
Donald Trump said exactly the right thing —- ” “I think Islam hates us”” and —
“There’s something there that — there’s a tremendous hatred there. There’s a tremendous hatred. We have to get to the bottom of it.”
Pure genius for him to refer to it as — (“SOMETHING)”
Good political instincts.
Christianblood says
Megan posted:
(…Mr Trump would, of course, benefit tremendously from a thorough grounding in Robert Spencer’s work, and I hope at least one of their several mutual friends is trying to arrange a meeting in the very near future. Nothing would make me happier than to see Mr Spencer on Donald Trump’s National Security Advisory Committee, right next to Senator Jeff Sessions…)
SO TRUE INDEED MEGAN!
Atheist Kaffur says
The Muslims are not concerned about the ban. They are concerned that the west will figure them out. Theocratic fascism. That we will figure out the taquya, deception. jihad etc to advance Islam.
mortimer says
Agree…’They are concerned that the west will figure them out.”
We are figuring out Islam and I believe that terrifies Muslims. Well-informed Westerners are their worst nightmare. We see Islam’s main three insuperable problems: 1) lack of historicity 2) lack of consistent ethics 3) backward-looking, incompatible with progress.
Christianblood says
If the USA shows leadership in this issue and Donald Trump and Robert Spencer work together about the true source of islamic hatred and violence this will be one great WAKE UP CALL for the whole world.
abad says
In Muslim eyes the western leadership.
We ordinary citizens – at least those on JW – have already figured out Islam’s sick pathetic contemptuous little game.
Simone Fields says
Yep definitely, they are riled that we are able to find out as much as we like about Islam on the Internet and there is nothing they can do about it. No amount of screaming “Islam is so misunderstood” and “the media is to blame” can stop us.
linnte says
Isn’t it wonderful that “In the beginning was the word” and now that “word” and communication will be the demise of Islam? It must be gone! Removed! Spreading the word to every one who thinks Islam is a religion of peace is a righteous goal!!
vlparker says
Radical islam IS islam itself and it’s way past time that politicians and pundits start saying so. And the so-called ‘moderate’ muslims give aid and cover to the jihadists. They are enablers.
I do not like Trump. He is a crass, crude, rude, obnoxious boor. But since islam is the greatest threat to western civilization I may switch my primary vote from Cruz to Trump. Cruz is one of the majority of politicians who thinks there is a bad islam and a good islam. When Cruz defends the first amendment’s freedom of religion clause for islam he is opposing the first amendment’s establishment clause. Islam demands of muslims that they overthrow the US government (or the local government wherever they happen to be) and instill an islamic government. Islam is seditious by definition. Cruz doesn’t seem to get that. It appears that Trump does. I like Cruz’s conservatism, but he just doesn’t see islam in its true light.
wildjew says
I agree, it is the one area in which Senator Cruz does not appear to be using his head other than his support for Israel in contrast to Trump who is the “neutral guy,” eager to make a deal with Islamic killers.. I disagree with you about the Constitution; the First Amendment. You aren’t going to find an answer to this problem in the text, not in the First Amendment or in the “Nor Religious Test” clause Sen. Cruz cited in defense of a Muslim president. Senator Cruz said he is a Christian first. He seems more like a Constitutionalist first. If Cruz relied on his faith and his God-given brain he wouldn’t be invoking the Constitution in defense of Islam’s rights. Islamic supremacists successfully exploit Constitutional protections to their advantage. The Drafters of the Constitution were wise men; they were not prophets.
vlparker says
I don’t believe the answer to the problem lies in the text of the first amendment, either. I’m merely stating that if one supports freedom of religion for muslims, then by definition one is opposing the establishment clause because islam mandates that it becomes the state religion. In effect, one is helping to bring the US into the Dar al islam.
Wellington says
“…..if one supports freedom of religion for muslims, then by definition one is opposing the establishment clause…….”
I would argue this is not the case because an ideology, be it secular or religious, is protected by the First Amendment respecting what that ideology professes in theory but that does not mean that adherents of that ideology are free to ACT upon all the tenets of that ideology. One can be a Neo-Nazi or Marxist in America and profess all sorts of fascist or Communist nonsense, nonsense which if successfully acted upon would gut or destroy the Constitution, but still be protected by the freedom of speech provision in the First Amendment. Ditto for a spiritual ideology, i.e., religion, and its adherents with respect to the provision for freedom of speech AND freedom of religion.
The key here is to have Islam correctly characterized as something awful, something inimical to basic rights and guarantees found in the Constitution. Once this would occur, Muslims, just like Nazis, Marxists, Aryan Nation members, anarchists, KKK members, Satanists, etc., are free to believe what they want and publicly state what they believe (e.g., Ibrahim Hooper of CAIR saying years ago something to the effect that he looks forward to the day when Sharia will replace the Constitution as the law of the land in America) but they’re not going to get their way. If they try to get their way by engaging in certain actions they will be prosecuted, immigration of such people can be stopped legally and constitutionally, and a kind of general ostracism and scorn of those who adhere to loser ideologies will also have the effect of limiting their influence and reduce exponentially the possibility that the Constitution will be destroyed by them.
In short, a religion that calls for the establishment of itself as the dominant religion, the official religion, etc., of America, even though this is utterly in contradiction of the establishment clause, is still a protected religion per the First Amendment with respect to BELIEF but not in many cases ACTION. Again, the key is proper identification and not any kind of prohibition since the Constitution is so strong that it can even allow, as Thomas Jefferson noted in his First Inaugural Address in March of 1801, people to live in America who seek its end as such. The way Jefferson put it was thus: “If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve the Union or to change its republican form,, let them stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.”
Just so. And thank you again, Thomas Jefferson.
vlparker says
@Wellington
Freedom of speech and freedom of religion are two different things. Freedom of religion is the freedom to practice ones religion. Islam is not just praying 5 times a day. Practicing islam means honor killings, stoning gays, treating women as property, and establishing an islamic government. There is absolutely no intelligent reason why islam should not be declared a seditious ideology and outlawed.
If Hitler had included a religious component to Nazism I wonder how many people would say it had 1st amendment protection.
“……The key here is to have Islam correctly characterized as something awful, something inimical to basic rights and guarantees found in the Constitution. Once this would occur, Muslims, just like Nazis, Marxists, Aryan Nation members, anarchists, KKK members, Satanists, etc., are free to believe what they want and publicly state what they believe (e.g., Ibrahim Hooper of CAIR saying years ago something to the effect that he looks forward to the day when Sharia will replace the Constitution as the law of the land in America) but they’re not going to get their way……”
They’re not going to get their way? Don’t count on it. You and Jefferson have a lot more faith in US politician’s faculty of reasoning then I do. The Constitution is not a suicide pact.
Wellington says
Nothing you asserted, vlparker, refutes what I wrote above in my 2:00 P.M. post. Nothing.
And if Jefferson and I are wrong, then faith in the Constitution and the American people in general is misplaced, now isn’t it? AND, if Jefferson and I are wrong, then who are you going to turn to be right? Yeah, who? Oh yes, contemplate this query for more than a short time.
As for the Constitution not being a suicide pact, I completely agree with you here. But this just confirms my basic point, to wit, that Islam must be identified as a negative and no longer a positive. After that, the “rest” will follow as a matter of course.
Truly, you offered nothing that contradicts what I asserted. NOTHING. And as for your mentioning Hitler and First Amendment protection, what you said has no relevancy at all. Here’s why: Freedom of speech alone protects a heinous ideology like Nazism. Make Nazism into a conventional religion as well (God knows how) and it still has First Amendment protection twice over.
I know you mean well, and I despise Islam at least as much as you do, but please study American constitutional law before opining again. Yeah, give it a shot.
vlparker says
A little touchy there aren’t you, Wellington? So nice to know that you have the Constitution down pat, considering the fact that even two great conservative justices Scalia and Justice Thomas didn’t agree on everything. Perhaps you can be named to replace Scalia and we can just get rid of the other 8 justices. Then you can be SCOTUS all by yourself.
Wellington says
No, I am not a “little touchy.” But I am annoyed at times by those who opine about constitutional law while knowing so little about it.
As for Scalia and Thomas not agreeing on everything (though they did agree on most everything), so what? Again, you have not bothered to refute my overall contentions and, more specifically and importantly, your statement that, “if one supports freedom of religion for muslims, then one is by definition opposing the establishment clause…….”
Uh-huh, care to name any federal judge at the District Court level, the Circuit Court of Appeals level, or the Supreme Court level, whether liberal, moderate or conservative, who has supported your position here? I say not one here NOT ONE! And even if you could name one or two such judges out of hundreds, it would still prove my overall point, now wouldn’t it?
Your turn.
See, why I am not “touchy” but annoyed? I hope so.
Western Canadian says
That is no answer. You cannot refute Wellington, or even keep up with him, so you sneer. REALLLLY impressive.
gravenimage says
All true, Wellington.
Christianblood says
vlparker posted:
(…Islam is not just praying 5 times a day. Practicing islam means honor killings, stoning gays, treating women as property, and establishing an islamic government…)
True…you may also add practicing islam includes barbaric jihad violence, amputations, hatred of the ‘kuffar’, extreme hatred of the Jews, throwing gays from high buildings and then stoning them to death, stoning women adulterers, amputations, public beheadings and amputations, public crucifixions, putting in cages and burning them alive, mass-execution of captured unarmed prisoners, murdering nuns in cold blood, flying civilians planes full of civilians into buildings and on and on…islam is nothing but PURE OF EVIL!
Pere LaChaisen says
I am surprised that I seem to be the first to call Trump ‘Barlaam’s Ass’ – that he speaks truth despite his handicap, and is used (as if by God, though I am not so sure about this aspect) to utter truth into the ear of the one who should be perceptive. That would be voting America.
I don’t think he’s presidential material and if by some obscene miscarriage of process or vast upheaval of yahooism he does make it to the Whitehouse his administration would be an unqualified disaster. But right now, he has a few things to utter amid all the blather and self-vaunting.
I don’t think this utterance is going to change much though. Voices like Dawkins’ other stringent atheists are closer to mainstream acceptance. But trump speaks to the okhlos, the unwashed mob, forming thoughts for their inchoate hunches.
Mark Swan says
Presidential Material or not He’ll Shake Things-Up.
It’ll be a nasty fight…I Hope He Can Get The Republicans To Back Him Now!
We can not take on any more of the world’s problems…none right now in fact.
In America approximately 17.5 million households are food insecure.
49 million Americans struggle to put food on the table.
76% of Americans are living paycheck-to-paycheck.
Approximately 62% of Americans have no emergency savings.
Many middle class families are living hand-to- mouth.
Our National Debt is astronomically out of control.
Our mandatory spending is squeezed way down.
Our discretionary spending is shamefully wasteful.
Our National Defense is way under funded.
You can go on and on with so many other serious problems.
Politicians should cringe thinking about this and they can’t discuss it.
Yes it is pitiful that we have squandered so much of our resources.
Look at it closely…it is even more frightening.
Our enemies hold our debt.
If our Dollar is devalued We will see social unrest and a whole lot more.
This does not have to be this way…but it is.
We need to look this squarely in the eye now.
It will Take extreme measures to get back on track.
We must put our national interests first…right now.
linnte says
Agreed! Which is why I want all American Tax dollars to remain in the USA. If the dollar is devalued, we are truly screwed. I wonder if Israel that gets Billions from us each year, will help us out when the shit hits the fan? Righhhhhht…….
William says
Is there any other politician, beside Trump, who has the ‘balls’ to say what Trump has said about Islam? I can’t think of any. The closest they will come to declaring that Islam has a problem is to say that there are good Moslems and there are bad Moslems.
I have said it before and I’ll say it again, there is no excuse for anyone running for public office to be ignorant of the belief system and the history of Mohammedanism. There is no longer any acceptable excuse when the threat from them is so great and when written information and reputable scholars are literally at one’s fingertips, ready to peel away all the layers of obfuscation and deception and dissimulation on the topic of Islam, laying bare its hideous reality. A politician showing ignorance of the topic is akin to gross, if not criminal, negligence.
Demsci says
“Radical islam IS islam itself and it’s way past time that politicians and pundits start saying so. And the so-called ‘moderate’ muslims give aid and cover to the jihadists. They are enablers.”
I go along with you a long way, but. It is important that you distinguish matters. What you see is an overwhelming majority that adheres to a very problematic interpretation of Islam for us. And then you see “moderate versions of Islam” and you think that they are not valid, and meant to deceive Westerners and thus aid in the real goals of Islam.
And I really don;t know everything, but the real deceipt seems to me that the Moderate Muslims just as all the others, just as pres. Obama, PM Cameron and the MSM and all those political correct people,
they all paint Islam as beneficial, while saying or assuming that that is the ONE TRUE ISLAM!!!
And THAT is the real deception. Because the beliefsystem of the whole population of Egypt, can be massively Sunnite, but it is just as much an arbitrary interpretation of Islam (Quran-Hadiths-Sira) as any moderate interpretation.
People like you mean well, but by saying what Islam is or is not, you too, just like almost all the Muslims in the world, CONFIRM that there is ONE TRUE ISLAM. And it is because of common practice by so many Muslims and because of the 4 schools of Islamic thought.
But you have been had. Real Islam is about Quran-Hadiths-Sira. They are in the big picture incredibly unclear, ambiguous, contradictive (remember the Mecca and Medina-parts?),incomplete and on top of it all increasingly obsolete and unchangeable due to so-called “Divine origine”.
No way, such a mess, as Islam is, without the 4 schools, could even deliver One True Version of Islam.
And so it doesn’t. Misunderstanding and different opinions and conflict is ubiquitous in the Islamic World. Robert Spencer jokes thousands of times about “misunderstanding Muslims”. David Wood mocks the antics of apologists, because explaining the meaning of Quran-Hadiths-Sira forces them to such ridiculous explanations.
This means the interpretation of moderate Muslims may not be so popular, but is as much valid as an Islam-interpretation as any majority-view of Muslims. In my opinion.
And it is an ISLAMIC TENET that Islam is clear, because God-Given. For me it should NOT be a tenet of counterjihadists or any Non-Muslim, because Islam is no manifestly not clear.
The deception that you fear is about the myth that one particularly dangerous version of Islam is denied and one beneficial version of Islam is presented as the “one true Islam”.
All you have to do to see through that propaganda is that you add: But this is only one valid legitimate interpretation of a very faulty Source; Islam; or Quran-Hadiths-Sira, among several, or many.
You don’t have to imitate Recep Tayyip Erdogan who said that there was only one Islam. Small wonder that, because all Muslims must endorse that, it is what the Quran says, it is a logical corollary of their belief of Divine Intervention.
But when we non-Muslims say it as well, only with a different judgement, but still, … they honor Islam too much and give it too much dignity. Our own writers, presidential candidates can improve so much on Quran-Hadiths-Sira in terms of clarity.
Christianblood says
Good point!
And I would add that Islam is not a just threat to the West but to the whole world..
Champ says
At this stage of the game I still remain a strong Cruz supporter. But if Trump wins the GOP, then I’ll hold my nose and vote for him ’cause Donald Trumps Hillary.
Champ says
Hey if Donald wins the GOP then that would make a great bumper sticker:
“DONALD TRUMPS HILLARY”
😀
Peggy says
I hope Donald thumps Hiillary too.
Don McKellar says
As I have put forward in several Jihad Watch comments in the past on Trump, voting for Trump is a vote for the advancement of the raison d’être of Jihad Watch. A national dialogue about Islam and what exactly is in those texts for all to see.
wildjew says
Maybe but then there are those glaring inconsistencies like the way Mr. Trump vehemently and repeatedly condemned Pamela’s free speech event in Garland, Texas on cable television, and how he cannot or will not take sides in the Muslim world war against Israel. He will honor Obama’s agreement with Iran’s Mullahs. Why are so many Israel-hating white supremacists like David Duke and others attracted to Mr. Trump? Granted, Mr. Trump says things that are attractive to many of us. Given his past record one wonders, can the man be trusted?
Jay Boo says
“can the man be trusted?”
I wonder the same thing, However I will vote against Hillary no matter whichever candidate is the most likely to beat her even if Bernie runs as an independent, that would be a more palatable option than Hillary.
Mirren10 says
No, Dave.
The defence of the freedom of speech is **fundamental** The fact that Trump doesn’t understand this, should be a huge red flag to anyone thinking of voting for him.
Having said that, well, in all honesty, which candidate actually *does* understand this ? I’m afraid that Americans, as we are in Europe, are faced with a choice between out and out dhimmis, and those who have *some* understanding of the threat we face, even if it is only partial.
Woe to the nations whose leaders are fools, half fools, or totally complicit. Ay di me !
gravenimage says
Agreed, Mirren. Even if Trump understood nothing about Islam he should have understood the fundamental importance of defending freedom of speech.
I may well end up voting for Trump–and certainly will, if he is the Republican nominee. But he is a far from perfect candidate, and will be hit or miss at best in opposing the threat of Jihad.
Likely still considerably better than the current occupant of the White House, though.
underbed cat says
His statements about Pamela, I believe, were a direct result of his KNOWLEDGE of Islam, not his ignorance. I believe to this day that he knew it could be dangerous even in this country, especially in Texas, to run this event, knowing there could be danger. He was running for President and if had supported this event, he would have had a negative press reaction, and he would not be able to speak in the future his campaign would be short. .Sort of a milestone for the infidel, then reveal…..he has often asked, “why can’t politicians call terrorists, islamic”? That told me he knew, he was getting heard. I can’t speak for him but this is my opinion and hopefully someday Pamela will understand his offensive remarks, he was stating a concern, I think that spoke volumes about what some had no knowledge of the danger.
Today, in Canada, someone is already attacking Trumps statement, with a silver tongue, but very little truth and aligning with someone who will bring trouble his country with the delusion
Mark Swan says
You are Correct as to why He said anything at all…about it.
I don’t agree that he has any problem with free speech anymore
than the rest of us. He certainly tries to exercise his right to it.
Being under this left leaning Media’s Microscopic scrutiny is a
challenge, even to someone who seems to push most of the right
buttons with their mindset and gain momentum from it; it’s quite
a feat in my books. No one seemed to like Him before he ran
and yet he is a contender now.
Peggy says
So what alternative do you have? Hillary? More of the same tretchery.
She is a proven liar and traitor. Trump might be a liar too but he hasn’t been given a chance to prove himself yet.
Vote for Democrats means more of the same and disaster for the US and world and that is certain. Might as well take a chance on Trump.
Kathy Brown, Esq. says
Peggy, such a great post.
I’m a major Trump supporter-even working on his campaign-but no one can know the future. As an ex-New Yorker I saw him do lots and lots of great stuff over the years. Still, so much of what we have, is hope…
My feelings about The Donald are along the same lines as the famous quote under the crucifix. It says, ‘Why not, since all else has failed?’.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“Trump might be a liar too but he hasn’t been given a chance to prove himself yet.”
Yeah, if only Trump were an important or famous person so that the media would be interested enough to record what he said throughout the years. But, alas, since that is not the case, I guess Americans will have to vote for him and find out… /sarc. off
Christianblood says
Don McKellar
Good point! Very well-said!
Mitch says
Trump says the right thing. Sometimes. Is that the ONLY time you’re listening?
Based on recent statements, he is not to be trusted on immigration, free speech, or defense of Israel.
I listed three issues that are immediate to the JW site, but he’s made 180-degree conflicting statements on taxes, gun control, abortion, and health care, too. This proves that he is a wild card at best. At worst, a liberal poser.
Disappointing that so many Jihad Watchers project their beliefs onto a flip-flopping blowhard.
Champ says
Mitch, I completely agree with you. But if Trump wins the GOP, then I’ll hold my nose and vote for him. No way do I want Hillary as president. But IMO, Trump is barely better than her. So crazy that it could come down to those two.
Mitch says
Ditto, Champ. I’ll vote for Trump if he wins the nomination. I don’t expect him to beat Hillary, though. (Like you, I support the Constitutional conservative.)
Peggy says
When you don’t have quality you and you have to choose one, the least defective one will have to do.
They are all liars just choose the one who has at least indicated that they love the country.
Mark Swan says
It’s a mess…isn’t it.
Kathy Brown, Esq. says
Peggy, I like lots of things about The Donald; I mean actively like things about him. But then I’m a New Yorker; and just as we Kansans know more about Sebelius than the rest of the country due to familiarity, so too with Mr. Trump. Still I agree with the basic premise of your post.
It’s a version of what my Church (Catholic) teaches; that we have a duty to vote, be engaged. But that is not contingent upon there being even a ‘good’ candidate. Because, alas! There is so seldom such a one…
The Church teaches that because She recognizes that human beings are flawed. Your post is true because it acknowledges the same thing.
I want to say I’m very much edified by the tone of ‘disagreement’ on our SIOA, and other conservative sites. On occasion I ‘engage’ on left-leaning sites; and when I do, I’m always appalled and in short order. They excoriate, they rail, they insult in the most scatological terms.
Kudos to all here.
Laura says
Mitch, I agree – I would add that I don’t really think Trump understands islam fully, but has only “backed into” some truth, which he then states (“something” going on) without more detail to indicate a fuller understanding of the issue. He makes statements, but there is no follow-through with facts. He has no problem hurling his invectives and insults at the other candidates, but on this subject, he won’t be more specific.
Don McKellar says
I see that Jihad Watch has been hacked and all the i’s (eyes) have been dropped in the comments. Some jihad enabling creep making a Shakespeare joke? The forces of evil are at work in the Ides of March?
Myxlplik says
Yes it’s very frustrating, it’s basically impossible to post any links.
There have been a lot of posts relating to Sennels work on, “Why Islam Creates Monsters”.
Might be a good time to repost it, because you can’t link it, and it’s very pertinent to this issue.
It’s a mental health issue, so religion aside its a public health issue if you are bringing Muslims in.
marc says
nothing to worry about, weirdest bug i ever saw in 20+ years, fixed now
https://wordpress.org/support/topic/jetpack-393-shortcode-embeds-cause-missing-letters
Jack Diamond says
I was just looking at comments in a past thread and all the i’s were missing, is that permanent?:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/03/pakistan-100000-attend-funeral-of-killer-of-blasphemy-laws-foe
Champ says
Good work fixing the problem, Marc …thank you! 🙂
gravenimage says
Thanks so much for fixing the problem, Marc!
rubiconcrest says
I don’t know where Trump is going with this but I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt. Even if he knows the answer which I think he does, it is better to phrase the problem in this manner, otherwise he will be attacked left and right. We can then have a national debate. It is astonishing that it has taken so long for a politician to ask the simple question, ‘where does the hate come from’?
Mark Swan says
You’re Right …That Open And Clear Debate Is Way Past Due Isn’t It.
Tom Green says
I know Trump has a point, an obvious point.
The miracle is that he dares to say it.
Go Trump!
Mark Swan says
Absolutely
Champ says
“I know Trump has a point, an obvious point.
The miracle is that he dares to say it.
Go Trump!”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Indeed!
And on CNN someone said that he should “apologize”. For what? Speaking the truth!
Already they’re looking for an apology. I hope Trump doesn’t cave to this pressure.
Bruceph says
Required reading about the [loosely used term] religion of Islam.
From an interview with Fr. James Schall in 2006
Q: At Regensburg, Benedict XVI highlighted the Christian understanding of God as Logos. How does the idea of God as Logos differ from an Islamic conception of God?
Father Schall: The Holy Father posed the fundamental question that lies behind all the discussion about war and terror. If God is Logos, it means that a norm of reason follows from what God is. Things are, because they have natures and are intended to be the way they are because God is what he is: He has his own inner order.
If God is not Logos but “Will,” as most Muslim thinkers hold Allah to be, it means that, for them, Logos places a “limit” on Allah. He cannot do everything because he cannot do both evil and good. He cannot do contradictories.
Thus, if we want to “worship” Allah, it means we must be able to make what is evil good or what is good evil. That is, we can do whatever is said to be the “will” of Allah, even if it means doing violence as if it were “reasonable.”
Otherwise, we would “limit” the “power” of Allah. This is what the Pope meant about making violence “reasonable.” This different conception of the Godhead constitutes the essential difference between Christianity and Islam, both in their concept of worship and of science
…If Allah is pure will, then anything that is, can be the opposite of what it is, so that nothing really is what it is. It can always be otherwise.
No Fear says
….and God created all things, predator and prey, parasite and host, and it was all good…..
Jack Diamond says
who put out their “i”s?
Islam has a doctrine of hate and enmity toward disbelievers and the Qur’an, in the consensus by Islamic scholars, declares war on them and war is the permanent state of affairs absent a peace treaty or dhimmi pact or the Muslims own weakness to act. 58:22 “you will not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger, even though they be their fathers, sons, brothers, or kindred.” Muhammad and Allah have enemies, go slaughter them (qital) 9:5; 9:29; 2:216.
Islam hates us. Radically.
Jack Diamond says
Islam hates us. And the response is, no, look there are Muslims who do not hate us, or say they do not and aren’t becoming terrorists and seem to be against sharia norms, therefore it must not be Islam it must be “Islamism”, clearly there must be lots of interpretations of Islam. Changing the subject to varieties of Muslim people or pretending that hate and enmity and rejection and war and conquest are not the mainstream orthodox teachings (which a majority of Muslims arguably both understand and submit to, actively or passively) avoids the issue. If there was a “war within Islam” there would be actual explicit rejection in mosques of these teachings and tenets. There isn’t. All efforts go toward combating “Islamophobia” from the victimized infidels and toward protecting the miserable reputation of Islam at all costs.
mortimer says
Jack Diamond wrote: ‘ If there was a “war within Islam” there would be actual explicit rejection in mosques of these teachings and tenets. There isn’t.’
There is no mosque that rejects the 164 eternally valid jihad verses or that claims that Muslims must not try to conquer the world or must not impose Sharia law if the majority votes against it.
Demsci says
Your comment spoke of TWO matters; almost as if we sensible Islam-aware democratic citizens have a war on 2 fronts or a war against a coalition of TWO enemies.
1st enemy; Muslims. Who indeed do not have a “war within the mosque” pertaining to choosing for or against America and the Democratic System.
2nd enemy; Our own political correct people, media, politicians. And we see very much “a war within our own nation, people, media, politicians”.
You point out that the political response is that “it must not be Islam, but it must be Islamism”.
In my opinion, that’s unchangeable. The majority of the Westerners seems to have this red line; “Muslims are innocent until proven guilty” “Never ever paint all Muslims with the same Brush”.
And if people blame all Islam, then that automatically means “no Muslim is innocent and all Muslims are painted with the same brush” When someone has that position automatically the political correct people, media, politicians will brand him/ her as a bigot and a racist.
And the result will be a galvanized alliance of Muslims and Political Correct People against those with the position of “All Islam” is anti-Democratic, supremacist and violent.
You must somehow concede that NOT ALL ISLAM is hating and fighting us, even though the worst Muslims really are and the best Muslims are at best neutral and inactive, as you said.
Demsci says
It is OK if the political correct argues that there must be a variety of Interpretations of Islam. We, Islam-aware democratic citizens can use this to our advantage.
The real deceipt in regard to Islam in the Western media and politics is not about a cover-up of the real nature of Islam. It is only about the assertion by many political correct people that some sort of beneficial or neutral rather mysterious Islam, that THAT is the ONLY TRUE ISLAM.This is Obama’s big lie.
That notion is the deceitful one of the real enemy that we should combat.
It is a big TENET of Islam that Islam is god-given, clear and as corollary there must be “one true Islam”. No Muslim seems ever to concede that there is more than one interpretation of Islam. Erdogan of Turkey asserts that there is “only one Islam”.
So these political correct commentators are already breaching an Islamic tenet; that of “only one true clear Islam”. And we should use that against our enemies.
We can concede that “of course there can be and are divers various equally legitimate and valid interpretations of Islam. That’s not the point.
Only the political corrects that go beyond that are wrong; they lie to us when they imply that the interpretation of Moderate Muslims is the only true Islam and when they explicitly tell us that Islamic State’s interpretation of Islam is FALSE. Then they cater to that damned ISLAMIC tenet of “one true clear Islam:”, they imitate Erdogan.
Our advantage is: Yes, we are convinced of multiple interpretability of Islam, it’s a big weakness of it. It means belonging to it in a democratic nation is irresponsible it a Muslim does not specify which of the diverse interpretations of Islam he or she adheres to,
With Islam so obvious unclear, ambiguous and at the same time so prone to supremacist, hostile, violent interpretations we can now win the war on our own home front and reach a parliamentory majority.
We concede Islam’s variations and the political correct already admitted that much too. Now we can press that it is only reasonable to make distinctions between Muslims on basis of what interpretation they choose.
We can argue that Islamic state too has a valid interpretation, among other interpretations. And so neutral Muslims are now too vague and irresponsible and untrustworthy for not choosing, we can argue.
Harsh, farfetched now, but it definitely avoids the red line of the majority, that “ALL MUSLIMS cannot be guilty, and must never be painted by the same brush.” A red line we will never be able to cross, to reach a majority in parliament.
Jack Diamond says
How about we decide it for them. No jihad, no sharia allowed. Zero tolerance. Since they are moderate Muslims who so clearly reject such violent, intolerant, antidemocratic “interpretations” of Islam, there should be no problem. Right?
The problem still is all the very non-ambiguous things the Qur’an and Sunnah have to say, and one of the things they say, clearly, is that you are not a Muslim–one who submits–unless, without question, you obey Allah & Muhammad. Bad news for non-Muslims. Back to the red line.
Every mainstream school of Islamic law calls for the death penalty for apostates. Is it really so ambiguous what Islam teaches about apostasy? Are we to suppose there is a strong counter-teaching that refutes it because those rulings are often ignored? Where? If Islamic law clearly defines jihad, not as a course in personal self-improvement, but as warfare against non-Muslims to spread Islam, is it really so ambiguous how Islam understands jihad? Are we to suppose there is a strong counter-teaching that refutes that because some Muslims ignore their obligation? Where? And Jihad is clearly an obligation not a choice. It is an obligation imposed by Allah and not subject to interpretation. If you want to still argue it is ambiguous and there are other valid interpretations of something not subject to interpretation, good luck. All the Islamic scholars are against you. But how does a pious, true Muslim understand Islam and act upon it? That’s the important question, and it’s answered daily at JW.
“Do you believe in some parts of the divine writ and deny the truth of other parts? What then could be the reward of those among you who do such things but ignominy in the life of this world and on the Day of Resurrection? They will be consigned to the most grievous suffering.” Qur’an 2:85
“It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision.” 33:36
“They can have no Faith until they make you (O Muhammad) judge in all disputes between themselves and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission.” 4:65
“fighting is prescribed for you and you dislike it. But it is possible you dislike a thing which is good for you and love a thing which is bad for you.” 2:216
Sam says
Islam is like a virus once your in it there is no way out. Congrateulation you have entered Islam you are now trapped for ever. Many Muslims want to escape from Islam but they can’t out of fear.
Angemon says
https://imgflip.com/i/10lk9o
Dave says
Trump knew enough not to get into the details in an area he is not versed in; he told Cooper , you are going to have to figure it out, there is a Pulitzer in it for you.
Great response put it back on the media; tell us how to differentiate between Jihadist, Jihad active supporters, Jihad passive/latent supports, those that do nothing and those that oppose Jihad. Meanwhile there is a country and a population to protect.
The Art of the Deal.
Christianblood says
Dave
Great point! That is really why Donald Trump needs an expert on this issue now.
Demsci says
Beautifully said. In fact it is a tenet of Islam, a principle of Muslims, that there is only one true Islam. OF COURSE there is a distinction of divers interpretations of Islam. Those who believe already breach the tenet of Islamic clarity.
But this ambiguity, multi-interpretability means that “no, we will not paint Islam as only and all bad, and we will not paint all Muslims with the same brush, and yes, there must be lot’s of innocent Muslims”.
BUT …. being only “a Muslim” in a Democratic Nation, in view of Islam’s variety but also proneness to hostile violent interpretations, is not sufficient, responsible any more. If there IS a variety of interpretations then we can demand a choice among them from Muslims. We can hope that a majority of Westerners will come to agree with that, seeing that they are already half way there by saying that there must be multiple VALID interpretations, good and bad, of Islam.
But we should not ourselves follow the Islamic tenet of there being “one true version of Islam”.
jewdog says
No, Islam is an inanimate object. It doesn’t have emotions. Muslims hate us. They may be inspired by Islam, but they need to be held responsible for their hatred, not Islam. It’s time we stopped making excuses for people.
ECAW says
Glad you piped up jewdog. Mohammed, through his invented character Allah, hated all and everyone that was not under his control. That’s the way it is with megalomaniacs and malignant narcissists. And those people who faithfully follow Mo’s example hate us today but ideas don’t hate even though they are hateful.
Mirren10 says
“Ideas don’t hate, even though they are hateful”.
Nonsense, of course ideas hate. Did Nazi ideology not hate ? Did the ideas of Communism, and Fascism, not hate ?
Equally, the ideas of islam, *hate*.
What is necessary, for the hatred to come to fruition, is human beings who are prepared to act out the *tenets* of these baleful ideologies/tenets.
As I have said before, the religion of Moloch, the religion of the Axtecs, et al, would have been merely ideoligical abstractions, without *people* prepared to carry out their tenets.
And so it is with islam.
jewdog says
Islam doesn’t kill people, people kill people.
David says
It’s the Islamic philosophy of hatred.
Demsci says
Jewdog, if Muslims are to be held responsible, they must be seen by a majority of us to have choices where they are responsible for. But when Western citizens in majority believe in some kind of ONE TRUE ISLAM then the ideology is indeed blamed, then the adherents no more have a real choice, and cannot held accountable any more.
But if it is conceded that indeed there is variety of valid legitimate interpretation of Islam, despite the fact that it does not appear that way,
then automatically there can be made distinctions between “innocent Muslims” who somehow choose a legitimate democratic Islam and “guilty or at least untrustworthy Muslims” who either admittedly or demonstrably choose the enemy interpretation of Islam or are irresponsibly vague about their choice of Islam-interpretation.
Such a holding accountable of Muslims coming into or residing in Democratic Nations would seem reasonable if it is widely accepted by the non-Muslim majority that A. There are divers legitimate valid interpretations of Islam around, NOT ONLY ONE TRUE ONE. B. Islam is so ambiguous that it is prone to very supremacist, hostile, violent interpretations. And we have mountains of proof for that.
Jerry says
Speaking of muslim immigration…
Well, let’s be frank about it. It does seem nuts that kids and grannies are degraded and molested at the airport, but then have an open door policy for our self-avowed enemies. We haven’t declared war against muslims. It’s the islamic faith that has declared war on us. And every strata of the islamic culture bears some truth to that reality. Their parallel societies in our nations speaks for itself. The subversion of our political and educational systems is a kind of cultural espionage for advancing their religious perversities. The terrorism is a kind of guerrilla warfare for robbing our peace and breaking our resolve to resist. Every new mosque is a mark of conquest and a poisoned well for disseminating their faith’s moral depravities and intellectual buffoonery. Their attack on free speech, the sexual rape of our kids and women, the threatening riots, all of it is an expression of the hatred and contempt they have for our culture and its people.
Don’t tell me most muslims are “nice.” I’ve also seen old films of Nazis acting nice too, dancing, laughing, caring, working hard, devoted to family and friends…murdering, torturing, hating, as are muslims around the world. I guess I’m supposed to be comforted that most muslims are peaceful “moderates.” But I’m not really, because they are like the sea that sustains the sharks that wanna eat me. It is the religion of those moderates provides the motivation for the terrorists that kill, and it’s the sacred expression of their highest aspirations. And we all know what that is: World conquest for the islamic faith at the expense of our freedoms and human rights. That doesn’t sound “nice” to me at all.
linnte says
I don’t know how many of you get “The Clarion Project” weekly emailed newsletter but I just read it. They also have an article about Trump’s statements. They have a plan. And the biggest part of their plan is to “reject” the extremist ideology words from Islamic doctrine, there for, removing it from Islam.
I wrote them saying they were still in denial, and the only way to change the horrendous verses was to remove them! Start a new Sect of Islam. Of course they will reject my idea. So it has dawned on me that Clarion Project must just be a form of pacifier for their own justification of staying Muslim. How sad. Such a huge problem!!!!
Jack Diamond says
They are pretending another sect of Islam already exists. The nice Muslim sect of Islam.
linnte says
I am still going to continue to call bullshit on their bullshit! But I see what you are saying. Damnit that is sad eh? I wish some strong Muslim Imam would come out and rewrite that damn book to the satisfaction of every “peaceful” Muslim! I can dream can’t I? Hahahahahahaha!
mortimer says
Jack Diamond wrote: ‘…The nice Muslim sect of Islam.’
Like the unicorn or the tooth fairy, ‘nice’ Islam…an Islam with the Golden Rule cannot exist because of K. 48.29 ‘the followers of Mohammed are VIOLENT towards the kafirs and compassionate between themselves.’
Islamic ethics are the ethics of a predatory mob. And Trump is right…’Islam hates us.’
Mark Swan says
Yes…I Do See All The Compassion Amongst Themselves…
Surely That Word Does Loose A Lot In Translation.
Demsci says
Mortimer, you and others point to clear verses in Quran-Hadiths-Sira, and to the multitudes of Muslims who also point to them, only from the other side.
But we can point to the big picture of Islam; Quran-Hadiths-Sira. And then we see massive contradictions, which makes even the clear verses only clear on some condition, and so yet again; UNCLEAR.
It is the Muslims who insist on there being a divinely inspired clear one true Islam. We on the other hand can contest THAT vehemently and so concede “Ben Afflecks” point that insists that there must be: “Multiple legitimate streamings inside Islam, and so many innocent Muslims”. Thereby “Ben Afflecks” already unwittingly break the Islamic tenet of one true Islam!
If there must be “innocent Muslims, there must be “innocent Islam interpretations”, but that means that there is also the possibility, and of course the certainty, of “Supremacist interpretation, so hostile Muslims.
The flipside of that point is that Islam is also prone to massive supremacist interpretation and that that makes it incumbent on Muslims, in Western Nations to choose openly in order to stay “innocent”. And we can hold them accountable for that choice.
Demsci says
Yes, they are and it seems not to be in existence. But it is! And now it is time to trot out Zuhdi Jasser, Irshad Manji, Majid Nawaz, Tarek Fatah.
Yes, they are minimal, rejected by almost all Muslims. NEVERTHELESS, their interpretation of Islam is as legitimate and valid as the beliefsystem of the whole population of Egypt!
Islam IS very vague, and multi-interpretable. And that gives Westerners the right to demand from Muslims in Western nations a choice between various legitimate valid interpretations of Islam! Because Islam is at fault, when it is so vague, ambiguous, incomplete, contradictive that multiple interpretations are valid and when supremacist interpretations are so rife in the world.
No more protests by “Ben Afflecks” of “Muslims are innocent until proven guilty” or “you cannot paint Muslims with one brush”.
Yes, we say, Muslims CAN be innocent, just let them choose a valid innocent interpretation of Islam! and make no mistake, these interpretations DO EXIST, and they are VALID.
No, we do not paint all Muslims with the same brush”, we just identify our enemies among them, with the supremacist interpretation. And we say”Neutrality of Muslims, in a democratic nation, with the existence of divers good and bad interpretations of Islam is no longer responsible behavior and acceptable”.
Daniel Triplett says
When Islamic Abrogation is applied, about 75% of what remains is hatred, subjugation, and death toward non-adherents. I see nothing vague and multi-interpretational about that at all.
Why try to save something that isn’t worth saving?
Islam is a criminal enterprise that must be reclassified from “religion” to Felony.
We’re not required to regard Islam a religion and accord it Constitutional protections simply because a 7th Century psychopath said so.
No one could start Islam today, exactly the same but under a different name, and get Constitutional protections of it as a “religion.”
No Fear says
Islam’s manifesto the Quran was written by a military leader.
Why would anyone think that it would be peaceful?
Infidel Task Force says
“Trump: ‘I think Islam hates us.,”
Ya Think!!
Champ says
LOL! 😀
miriamrove says
About time someone is telling it the way it should be told. M
Wakeup says
All this being the case then Ben Carson is your Vice President, I cannot think of anyone who is more suitable, no other candidate has even admitted there is a problem. This choice would also blow any accusation of racism out of the water.
Myxlplik says
Yup, it would assuage many concerns regarding the inherent intracellular content of melanin and the current electoral cycle. Ben Carson is smart, understands faith, and has lots of inherent intracellular melanin… even when you lift his t-shirt, I bet there is still a ton of melanin. I think they need a shot of Ben at the beach to show off his melanin, so people will understand.
Tamara Rosenthal says
Ben Carson is the only candidate who ever said that Islam as a whole (not just radical, when he was pinned down-though later on he started referring to “radical Islamic terrorism”) was incompatible with the U.S. constitution. He also said that he wouldn’t ever support a Muslim for POTUS unless that Muslim rejected Sharia law and he said that if there were a Muslim running then people would get educated on Sharia and taqqiya! I’ve never heard any other candidate plainly state such a thing! Carson also proposed America becoming energy independent over a period of five to ten years so it won’t be beholden to Saudi Arabia! Trump is very inconsistent and has made anti-free-speech statements so I don’t fully trust him and don’t think he’s informed but if Carson were his running-mate I think he could end up doing a great job! A Trump/Carson presidency has the potential to turn the tide and really start the West’s fight against Sharia and jihad.
Myxlplik says
I like Ben too, and agree, he has enunciated the clearest understanding of Islam yet. Initially I wanted him over Trump as, but poor gentle Ben just doesn’t have enough spunk, but he brings the understanding of faith and Islam… and what the masses understand, the melanin.
Tom Lawrence says
This is all over CAIR. Also check out LInda Sarsour’s new hitpiece:
http://goodcast.net/play/Zp64CPaZ
linnte says
Doggonnit! Islam and Muslims are not a race! She must say the word racist thirty times! Can I pop her in the nose now for lying to her people? I guess lying is nothing new for ISLAM is it?
billybob says
She had no rebuttal to Trumps concerns about Islam – only ad hominem attacks against him personally and the stupid accusations that Trump’s attacks on Islam is “racism”. What an idiot. You find that whenever you debate with a Muslim. They can’t defend the Quran or Islam. All they can do is attack the opponent or employ misdirection.
Tom Lawrence says
wow
Randy says
And the Christians , from Columbus on down hated the native Americans they encountered in the Americas.
That may explain the abuse and persecution the Christians inflicted upon the native people’s as they were stealing their lands
Christians are a man made religion
Angemon says
Randy posted:
“And the Christians , from Columbus on down hated the native Americans they encountered in the Americas.”
Huh, you realize that’s factually false, right?
JIMJFOX says
Muslim troll. Absolutely typical use of the “moral relativity” bogus argument.
mortimer says
Yes. The ‘tu quoque’ argument Randy uses is a fallacy. Another’s fault does not excuse Islam of being the greatest genocidal enterprise in history with more than 270 million jihad-related deaths and now a hundred jihad-related deaths every single day.
Nothing can excuse Islam for this senseless slaughter or excuse over one billion Muslims who pretend they are not responsible for stopping the killing!
Whoever fails to speak out against the perpetrators is complicit in the perpetrators’ crimes.
Muslim ARE responsible for the barbarism perpetrated in the name of Islam.
Mo says
@ Randy
“And the Christians , from Columbus on down hated the native Americans they encountered in the Americas.
That may explain the abuse and persecution the Christians inflicted upon the native people’s as they were stealing their lands
Christians are a man made religion”
You know ZERO about Christianity. You’ve never read a Bible in your life. I bet you’ve never read a Quran either.
Be gone, troll. Address ISLAM, the point of this article and this entire site.
Champ says
“randy” is a colossal waste of time and attention.
Ren says
Robert, I only hope Trump would read this particular article on muslim hatred so he wouldn’t say to himself: “There’s a tremendous hatred. We have to get to the bottom of it.”
Walter Sieruk says
Thump does have a good point. As he god of Islam likes it when non-Muslims [Kafirs] die. For example, the day after the London train bombing, on July 8, 2005 on Palestinian television imam Suliman Satari said “Annihilate the Infidels… Allah count them and kill them, to the last one and don’t leave even one.” Furthermore Imam Abu Hamza Al-Masri said “What makes Allah happy? Allah is happy when Kafiers get killed. [1]
As shown in an earlier posting the god of Islam is not the same god as the God of the Bible. The above words of these Imams reflect the example of Islam’s prophet and the teachings of the Quran. “Muhammad now fell upon them [the Jews] slew all the men, nine hundred of them…”[2]
Moreover, the Quran reads “When ye encounter the unbelievers strike off their heads, until ye have made great slaughter among them. Verily if Allah pleased, He could take vengeance on them without your assistance, but He commandeth you to fight His Battles.” 47:4,5.
In short, these Imams and their murderous prophet with their bloody Quran show the world what Islam really is. After all, Jesus did teach “by their fruits ye shall know them.” Matthew 7:20. [KJV]
[1] The disc documentary OBSESSION: RADICAL ISLAM’s AGAINST THE WEST
[2] THE OUTLINE OF HISTORY: THE WHOLE STORY OF MAN by H.G. Wells
Jay Boo says
Hillary will try to convince us that Muslims love us.
She will tell them and us how absolutely wonderful is Islam.
But, isn’t Hillary the one who must subconsciously hate Muslims?
By enabling them, she is actually hindering their growth as human beings.
Giving a compliment to a Muslim is like giving a heroine filled syringe to an addict.
David says
If there are MINOs, Muslims in name only, they probably don’t hate us. It’s the devout that are cause for concern.
Yes Virginia, there is something odd about Islam.
Trump’s like a lboy with the no clothes investigative reporter media cowering in fear at islamaphobia.
He asked the media to “figure out” why Islam hates us. Start with the Koran.
Albeit arrogant, sometimes vulgar and loud mouth boy. But Damm.
dumbledoresarmy says
He’s not just going on a vague gut feeling. I suspect he may know more than he’s letting on. Especially if this consummate western-style deal-maker has figured out that you might not be able to make deals with Mohammedans.
Read this.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/the_spectator/2016/03/trump_s_nuclear_experience_advice_for_reagan_in_1987.single.html
“…The text below was first published in Manhattan, inc., in 1987, and later collected in Manhattan Passion, under the headline “Trump: The Ultimate Deal—In which we see the world through the eyes of Qaddafi’s pilot.”…
“….Trump’s fears, which center on a Third World madman getting the bomb. Like Qaddafi.
‘Particularly Qaddafi.
‘Because Trump’s got inside information on the character of the Libyan dictator. From Qaddafi’s pilot.
“I have a pilot who works for me who used to be Qaddafi’s pilot,” Trump is telling me as we head through the crowds on Fifth Avenue in the direction of “21.”
“He’s a highly trained American pilot. And I asked him, ‘What kind of guy is Qaddafi?’ And he told me, ‘Mr. Trump, you’ve never seen a man like this. This man would get onto his plane, and he’d slap his subordinates in the face. A total schizo.’ ”
‘The pilot quit Qaddafi, Trump says. “He was being paid a fortune—he’s a great pilot—but he said, ‘I couldn’t stand it. He’d get into the plane, he’d scream, shout, slap people. He was crazy. You never knew. Hair-trigger.’ ”
‘Hair-trigger.
**Trump foresees a situation soon when such hair-trigger heads of state will have their hands on multiple nuclear triggers.** (nota bene: I’ll *bet* he senses that the Mullahs of Iran are ‘hair-trigger’ heads of state…- dda)
‘And it drives him crazy that nobody in the White House senses the danger.
We order drinks, a Heineken for me, a prim Virgin Mary for Trump, and he continues on the blindness of U.S. policymakers.
“I believe they’re sort of fools,” Trump says. “They only think about Russia. Russian and U.S. weapons. But the summit is a joke. It’s not about the real nuclear problem. You have countries like France that are openly and blatantly selling nuclear technology.”
Trump is very down on the French.
“They’ve got an arrogant head of the country, who I think is a total fool, and he’s trying to make up for his losses by selling this technology to anyone, and it’s a disgrace. It’s a disgrace.”
So what’s the solution? I ask him. How do you get the French to stop, how do you get French technology out of the hands of the Pakistanis at this point?
“I think you have to come down on them very hard economically or whatever way,” Trump says. “I think the solution is largely economic. Because there are so many of these countries that are so fragile and we have a vast power that’s never been used. They depend on us for food, for medical supplies. And I would never even suggest using it except on this issue. But this issue supersedes all other things.”
He pauses.
“I guess the easy thing would be to say you go in and clean it out.”
“Like the Israelis did with the Iraqi plant?”
“I don’t necessarily want to advocate that publicly because it comes off radical.
“And you know, without a lot of discussion prior to saying that, it sounds very foolish and this is why I get very concerned about discussing it at all.”…”.
Yep.
Loose lips sink ships.
There’s more to this man, I think, than most people think.
Think of an illusionist. And I think his stage show right now isn’t just intended for American voters. It may be that he is setting out to distract/ confuse/ flush out the *real* Enemy, that he might have a better handle on than many as yet suspect.
Put it this way: if he still thinks the way he clearly did in 1987 then he lies awake at night worrying about Iran’s nukes, and Pakistani nukes, and I *bet* he sleeps just a bit easier for knowing that the Israelis took out a/ Iraq’s nuke project and b/ Syria’s nuke project… and I suspect he doesn’t lose sleep over *Israel’s* nukes because he *knows* they are NOT led by the likes of Gaddafi, by the schizos, the cut snakes, the ‘hair-trigger’ men.
Mazo says
Hey Skippy Poof. People can’t steal” or “buy” what they themselves built or invented.
One of the Pakistani nuclear scientists worked on the Manhattan Project during World War II to build the original atomic bomb. He was Dr. Muhammad Raziuddin Siddiqui. He helped design the original bomb for the Allies to use on Japan and later Pakistans own atomic bomb.
Abdus Salam, Pervez Hoodbhoy, and Abdul Qadeer Khan are all internationally famous Pakistani nuclear physicists and Abdus Salam was awarded the Nobel prize. Hoodbhoy won multiple prizes in nuclear physics.
Dr. Qian Xuesen helped build America’s ballistic missile program. Dr Chien-Shiung Wu worked on the Manhattan Project to built the atomic bomb.
Its awefully strange how some dumb westerners with no degrees in physics and don’t even know basic algebra whine about “technology theft” and “espionage” when it was non-western scientists who helped build the weapons in the first place.
Gaddafi was the one supporting East Timorese and West Papuans against the Australian backed Suharto Dictatorship which slaughtered and raped hundreds of thousands of civilians. The Australians who were laughing at East Timorese being raped and directing Suharto’s death squads while Gaddafi sent bullets to put into the heads of Australian backed Suharto goons.
dumbledoresarmy says
You’re a Mohammedan.
You regard a raping, lying, treaty-breaking, mass-murderous conman, fraud and warlord as the Perfect Man, the ‘excellent pattern of conduct’.
A man who murdered another man and raped that man’s wife on the evening of the same day.
You regard an evil man – a thoroughly evil man – as someone to be imitated and admired.
What moral high ground can you *possibly* claim? … surrounded by an ocean of blood of the scores of millions of human beings (many, even most of them helpless unarmed civilians) ritually sacrificed to unholy ‘allah’ by the mohammedan imperialists and slave-lords in the course of the past 1400 years…and counting. Surrounded by towers of skulls.
You prostrate yourself five times a day before an entity that has been described, by a very wise observer, as nothing but “a pantheism of Force”.
Go away, Death Cultist, adherent of the Religion of Murder, Lies, Robbery, Enslavement and Rape.
That is not intended as an insult, by the way, but merely as a factual description.
That description is a conclusion to which I have come after reflecting for quite a long time on the career of mohammed the murderous warlord and false ‘prophet’, his companions, and the bloody progress of the Religion of Blood and War throughout human history.
gravenimage says
Excellent rebuttal, Dumbledore’s Army.
Mark Swan says
Ok…We Give Up…We Admit It …The Muslims Created Everything.
We Just Made-Up The myth Of Jewish Scientists To Aggravate.
Angemon says
Mazo posted:
“People can’t steal” or “buy” what they themselves built or invented.
One of the Pakistani nuclear scientists worked on the Manhattan Project during World War II to build the original atomic bomb. He was Dr. Muhammad Raziuddin Siddiqui. He helped design the original bomb for the Allies to use on Japan and later Pakistans own atomic bomb.”
Go read a history book to learn how the Pakistani nuclear program was developed. Or, at least, don’t assume everyone here is as ignorant as you.
Jay Boo says
Give Muslims credit where they are due.
I believe that Muslims were the first to invent travel pack toilet paper in a handy book binding holder.
Mo says
“The real estate mogul has been harshly criticized for advocating a temporary ban on Muslims from entering the United States, which he says is necessary because the country is not able to screen out terrorists from groups like the Islamic State….”
Oh, so it was a TEMPORARY ban he was advocating? I never was able to find his actual statements. All I ever saw was everyone claiming he said he was going to kick out ALL Muslims and NEVER let any in, and the resulting screaming, hysterical reactions to that.
JawsV says
Trump’s waking up. But he needs to know much more – the WHY.
Kathy Brown, Esq. says
That’s true JawsV. My man Trum; is quite honest. He says: ‘Until a year ago I was on both sides. I contributed to everyone because I was a businessman.’
And yet he’s the only candidate who says right out ‘Islam hates us’ and ‘We have to stop the muslim immigration.’.
Works for me.
Mo says
Islam does not hate us. Islam does not hate anyone. Islam cannot “hate” at all, because it is an ideology. Ideologies don’t hate.
Ideologies teach and command hatred. The ideology of Islam teaches hatred of us, commands hateful acts be done to us and condones those hateful acts.
The Muslims who choose to believe and act upon these teachings hate us.
Jay Boo says
Why nitpick over his — Personification?
Trump does an excellent job here at characterizing Islam’s hatefulness while not taking the MSM bait to say Muslims hate us and by extension meaning all Muslims to which they would unfairly call him a narrow minded bigot and put the focus on him instead of where it belongs — on Islam or more specifically Muslims.
Mo says
@ Jay Boo
“Why nitpick over his — Personification?”
It’s not nitpicking. It’s just accuracy. Especially since I doubt he knows anything about Islam, and yet his supporters (acting like the Obama cult members of ’08!) act like he does and will do anything about it. I’ve seen ths even on JW.
Daniel Triplett says
Trump doesn’t know how to engineer a tower, operate a crane, or weld I-beams either, but he knows how to build magnificent skyscrapers by surrounding himself with people who do.
Once he’s sitting at the Resolute Desk, surrounded by the full authority of the American Intelligence Apparatus and United States Military, and advised by well chosen advisors, President Trump will have no problem seeing Islam for exactly what it is.
jayell says
Islam just hates. Full stop. Anything. Anyone. For whatever ‘reason’. It’s just total negativity, a passport to nowhere, because the bottom line with islam is ‘control’ for its own sake (originally so that its founder could have his own way with anything and everybody to further his own personal aggrandisement and these days to further islamic imperialism). Just like the Nazis really.
dumbledoresarmy says
Yes.
Perhaps an American jihadwatcher or two or three could send Trump a copy of Brigitte Gabriel’s “Because They Hate” and a copy of Wafa Sultan’s “A God Who Hates”. And encourage him, very strongly, to *meet* privately with both of those remarkable women – a non-Dhimmi Maronite Christian from Lebanon who has got Islam’s number, and an ex-Muslim SYRIAN atheist and psychiatrist who knows *exactly* how horrible Islam is and what it does to people right down at family level, never mind at the macro (societal and international) level. Islam. Plain old Islam as practised by the average Muslim-in-the-street.
Two other things they could send to Trump (and these should *also* be sent to Cruz, and what the hell, send them to Bernie Sanders too) are Conor Cruise O’Brien’s classic article (early 1990s) about the rise and rise of the Jihad, the Islamic revival and a longer and more detailed essay about the Islamic way of war, by one Patrick L Moore, also written early 1990s (this one is seriously scholarly; but a quick and easy read, nevertheless; a ‘background briefing’).
Here’s Conor Cruise O’Brien.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the-lesson-of-algeria-islam-is-indivisible-1566770.html
CONOR CRUISE O’BRIEN
Friday 6 January 1995
The lesson of Algeria: Islam is indivisible
Opening paragraph:
“Fundamentalist Islam” is a misnomer which dulls our perceptions in a dangerous way. It does so by implying that there is some other kind of Islam, which is well disposed to those who reject the Koran. “There isn’t.
“Islam is a universalist, triumphalist and political religion. It claims de jure dominion over all humanity; that is God’s will. The actual state of affairs, with unbelievers of various sorts dominating most of the world, is a suspension of God’s will and a scandal to the faithful. The world is divided between the House of Islam and the House of War, meaning the rest of us…”.
And here’s Patrick L Moore.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/GUERRA.HTM
FROM “COLD WAR” TO GUERRA FRIA?
Patrick L. Moore
The truly useful aspect of Moore’s article is that it *begins* with a reference to the “Pact of Hudaybiyya” – which is *the* template for Mohammedan ‘deal-making’ with Infidels. Trump, as a master of The Deal, a man who has written a *book* about deal-making, should be able to see all the implications at once. If he *gets* – really *gets* – why it is that mohammedans do. not. keep. their. agreements with Infidels (and for that matter, ‘deals’ between mohammedans themselves tend to be distinctly temporary and a state of chaos is normal); that *any* ‘deal’ made between Infidels and Mohammedans is basically written on toilet paper in disappearing ink and can be *relied upon* by the Infidel side to be a snare and a delusion… then, well, I think the result of that illumination ought to be … interesting, were he to become POTUS.
To get an idea of the no-nonsense clarity of Moore’s writing, here’s just one paragraph:
“…There are five especially critical aspects about Islam’s doctrine of jihad which must be brought out to properly understand the significance of Islam as it relates to the United States and the West.[7] In summary, the meaning of jihad in its primary sense is military and coercive; it is central to the universalist doctrine of the Islamic belief system; its operational aim is political domination of non-Islamic territories (i.e. rather than forced conversion); it is offensive or aggressive in nature in the first instance (and not merely “defensive”); and, finally, jihad is continuous in character (i.e. pending the ultimate victory of the forces of Islam).
jihad is primarily “military” in character…”.
And if no-one’s sent him a copy of Sam Solomon’s “Al -HIjra: The islamic Doctrine of Immigration” or Mark Durie’s “The Third Choice” (which discusses Dhimmitude; again, with no waffle or BS; Durie’s style is very clear and plain, which should appeal to the likes of Trump), then it should happen.
Best for *American* jihadwatchers to do this.
Also, encourage Trump to consult Raymond Ibrahim and get a thorough background-briefing on the many and various types of deception routinely deployed by Muslims when attempting to manipulate, defraud, and generally ‘do down’ the Infidels. Tell Trump flat-out that Muslims firmly believe Mohammed said, “War is Deceit” (give the hadith reference). Ibrahim, of course, being of Egyptian Coptic parentage, is fluent in Arabic (as also WAfa Sultan and Brigitte Gabriel are) so the ‘oh but you don’t know Arabic’ attempted take-down can’t be used.
Muhammad Bear says
I don’t know why NRA member, concealed carry permit holder and great man Donald Trump is being so hateful.
So I looked at Islam’s foundational texts and, as Robert correctly points out, sure there’s some stuff in there about Jews being apes and pigs, beating disobedient women and killing non-believers.
But it is their culture and we should learn to respect it so we can all get along.
After all, this approach has worked out very well for Sweden.
wildjew says
The one thing that worries me about Donald Trump almost more than any other thing else; his devoted supporters.
Mr. Trump (until David Duke told him to do and say whatever he needed to do to get elected according to news reports) stumbled over questions about support from Mr. Duke, the Klan, white supremacists, etc.
It is because Trump knows these people are an important part of his base of support.
Muhammad Bear says
It is the typical journalism dirty trick of cutting off the feed to the ear piece to confuse the guest.
wildjew says
Mr. Trump repeated David Duke’s name after Jake Tapper said it. Trump said he did not know David Duke. He did not complain about having trouble hearing until the outrage the following day.
Muhammad Bear says
Correct. But if you watch the entire clip in context it is absolutely clear that they are talking at crossed purposes.
Trump had disavowed Duke a couple of days before. He immediately disavowed him by Twitter after the interview – once he realized what had been asked.
There is no other explanation.
Norger says
Sam Harris has said essentially the same thing as Trump, but in a more way. I think Sam’s words were that there are hundreds of millions of people in scores of countries who hate pretty much everything we stand for, and the reasons for this are religious (or more precisely, grounded in Islam. Trump is going to get bashed by numerous MSM pundits, none of whom are the slightest bit interested in learning what Islam in fact teaches.
I don’t particularly like Trump, but he’s the only candidate who will point out what’s been staring us the face since 9/11.
I
underbed cat says
Funny how CNN asked this question of Trump, right before the voting begins in Florida and Ohio. Funny how Ob is in Canada making use of his skills to persuade people, about crazy elections and Republican hate. The verses in the Koran that call for misdirection with a friendly manner but a hard heart are easy to find….and you realize how much deception is used top down.
Jay Boo says
Real Simple
Islam does hate us.
The Qur’an says so.
Jim says
Cooper asked if the west is at war with Islam… The correct answer is “No, the west is not at war with Islam, but it should be because Islam IS at war with the west.
Mark Swan says
You Got It Jim
Daniel Triplett says
Perfect Jim.
Put that on Cooper’s Twitter, and while you’re at it, attach a picture of Muslims shoving homosexuals off of 7-story towers, then stoning survivors of the fall to death.
awake says
Trump or bust!
Dan Jones says
Ya THINK Donnie?
More End Time News At:
http://www.shininginthedark.com/?page_id=6088
Guest says
Alison Bevege won a case against gender-separated seating at theocrat islamic meetings. She makes several important points in the comments section too. Robert, what do you think about her point below?
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/rendezview/i-took-on-hizb-uttahrir-and-i-won/news-story/27b60e0ee608579ecb08a66c1561b9e6
“the split is not moderate / extreme as we have often been told. It is actually secular / theocrat. Secular Muslims reject sharia and want the same democratic rule of law as us. Theocrats want to impose sharia as a legal system. Sharia demands gender segregation and all the terrible punishments you hear of.”
Jack Diamond says
Punjab governor Salman Taseer, who was murdered for asking pardon for Asia Bibi, was a secular Muslim. His son described what that meant, he said his father had no personal faith. What kind of argument is that to make against “theocratic” Muslims who follow the dictates of Islam? Who properly take the Qur’an literally and feel bound by Allah’s laws (as if “sharia” is something tangential to Islam)?
How do secular Muslims get past Muhammad? Secular Islam, non-Islam Islam, defanged Islam, no jihad no sharia Islam, no hate and enmity Islam, coexisting Islam, democratic rule Islam, it is all apostasy to any true Muslim. And only really exists when imposed on true Muslims by force. But, hey, anything to protect Islam from itself, Alison. Segregating seating from the bearded ones, the worst thing about Islam you can find to campaign against?
gravenimage says
Guest wrote:
Alison Bevege won a case against gender-separated seating at theocrat islamic meetings. She makes several important points in the comments section too. Robert, what do you think about her point below?
………………………………
I know you asked for Robert’s opinion, Guest, but I hope you don’t mind if I comment.
Alison Bevege seems like a decent sort, but her focus on just Hizb-ut-Tahrir’s separation of the sexes seems pretty narrow.
Hizb-ut-Tahrir seeks to establish a Caliphate and impose Shari’ah law. It demands the execution of apostates. All Infidels like Alison Bevege would be treated as abused dhimmis.
They have called for a Muslim army in Australia to impose Shari’ah there. They have run Shari’ah patrols in London, attacking Sikhs, Christians, and unveiled women.
It seeks the utter destruction of Israel, and calls suicide bombers “Martyrs”. It has called for the destruction of America, Britain, France, and Rome.
As for women, it demands that they be veiled, and they are not allowed to disobey their husbands. They cannot hold any position where they would have any authority over men.
As for the separation of the sexes, this is laid out in Article 109 of the party’s draft constitution, which prescribes segregation of the sexes in activities such as school, sporting activities, and public meetings.
Alison Bevege may claim, “I took on Hizb ut-Tahrir. And I won”–but does she *really* believe they have somehow changed their minds about the inferiority of women just because a Kaffir told them they should?
More:
“the split is not moderate / extreme as we have often been told. It is actually secular / theocrat. Secular Muslims reject sharia and want the same democratic rule of law as us. Theocrats want to impose sharia as a legal system. Sharia demands gender segregation and all the terrible punishments you hear of.”
………………………………
The problem is that there is no such thing as a Secular Muslim. If they are Secular, they have left Islam, and as apostates are subject to execution.
Gerald Mucci says
Is there any possibility that Gellar and Spencer are warming to Trump, just a little?
paula says
please, no.
Tommy L says
BS
Carmen Martinez M.D. says
Here is an email I sent to the Florida Governor today
Governor Scott, I did not vote for you but since youhave been governor I have been pleased with your performance. This morning while watching MSNBC trying to dictate how Americans should “feel” about Muslims, I saw you dodge the very direct question of whether you felt Muslims hate Americans. I was sorry that you did not stand up and state clearly what not even Donal Trump will state unequivically. The TRUTH is written in the Muslim holy book and also in EVERY history book since the 7th Century. Muslims invaded Sicely in 827 and Rome shortly thereafter. Muslims invaded and conquered Spain and held it 800 years. Muslims invaded what is now Turkey over and over. This is what Islam was and continues to be. We have to start realizing it is NOT a religion but a POLITAL SYSTEM LIKE SOCIALISM OR COMMUNISM OR FASCISM. Most Muslims are NOT Sufis, and the rest actually favor Sharia law. I was embarrassed for you. Stand up like a man and answer the question
Daniel Triplett says
Nice Carmen. This is WWIII. We have no more time or room in the game for pussies.
Sam says
At least Trump is talking about the ” religion of peace”. Please give him credit, folks!
PJ says
well, he just doesn’t like the poor muslims. They have to have enough money to buy his favor. He treats women the same way they do, when a woman reporter from a friendly news outlet has the temerity to ask a question that his henchmen deem to difficult. She gets roughed up and the excuse is that they thought she was from a different news outlet. Yeah. We need more of that putting women in their place stuff in our government.
PJ says
A broken clock is right twice a day.
But he still had to tell Anderson Cooper to figure out why. Real presidential. I guess he’ll be learning on the job with regard to ISIS an other Islamists. Maybe Cooper will be is Counterterrorism Czar.
Steven Falco says
Although it’s very nice that we might finally have a President who has an unfavorable opinion of Islam, I really wish he wouldn’t sound so confused and ambivalent about it. He spoke in the same uncertain manner when he was talking about banning all Muslims. He’s fairly sure that Islam is bad, but claims to have no idea whatsoever about the contents of the religion or what makes it so dangerous. He claims that whoever figures this out should get a Pulitzer. Many people, including Robert Spencer, have figured out why “Islam hates us”, and have spoken and written extensively on the topic. It would do Trump some good to visit this site, or one like it, or maybe even read some of the Quran and Hadith to educate himself on the topic so he can speak intelligently about it and back up his claims about Islam with quotes from the Quran and descriptions of the atrocities Muhammad committed. Of course, I’m still grateful he’s at least somewhat aware of the evils of Islam, but it would be nice if he actually knew what he was talking about. That may sound like too much to expect, but Islam’s the greatest threat to our civilization. Shouldn’t our President know something about it?
Daniel Triplett says
Trump is on Twitter on a near daily basis Steven. He does his own Tweets, unlike any of the other candidates.
He communicates with the American people. He’s not a pretender. I’ve spoken with him myself on Twitter. If you want to say something to him, or brief him on Islam, get a Twitter account and do it. Very easy.
If you want to say something more than 140 characters, use http://www.medium.com, set up an account, write an essay as long or short as you want, and attach the link to your Twitter post. Easy. That’s what I do.
Get busy Patriot. He will read it.
And give the man a break my Man. I don’t know how to run a $10 Billion company while simultaneously be winning a US Presidential race. Do you? I’m sure it’s not easy, and he doesn’t have the kind of extra time, as you and I do, to read JW daily. It’s taken me more than 4 hours just to get through this thread alone.
Check out one of my Tweets for some ideas:
Check out @dantriplett’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/dantriplett/status/665596720252764160?s=09
Champ says
Of course Trump is right when he says, “I think islam hates us”, and then on CNN they were bickering over whether he meant “radical islam”, or not. But the truth is, islam *IS* radical, and the quran is chock full of violent verses:
https://youtu.be/aIUnQ7mv0Y0
Daniel Triplett says
Great one Champ. I just broadcast this on Twitter.
Tommy Lawrence says
ISLAM INCITES THE HATRED OF NONMUSLIMS. ISLAM TEACHES A VIEW OF NON-MUSLIMS AS INFERIORS, FILTHY, “LESS THAN CREATION,” AND UNEQUALS. CONTEST THIS MUSLIMS!
Kepha says
It’s good that The Donald understands that Islam is dangerous, and I both respect and applaud him for it. However, this does not change my opinion that he is a fundamentally sleazy character, and to say he’d be a better POTUS that Shrillary Shrooooooooooooooooooooo is setting a standard about as low as an earthworm’s belly.
Daniel Triplett says
We’re all sleazy aren’t we? I know I’ve been, off and on, at various points in my life.
That’s why I like DJT. Besides sharing my initials, he thinks and speaks like the rest of us. He’s honest about his sleaze. He’s just a regular guy with a shitload of money. And let’s face it, he’s exceptionally smart.
I love the man, and am proud to support him as our next President, whom history will judge among our nation’s finest.
Peggy says
Hopefully he’ll go down in history as the President who saved USA.
Richard Paulsen says
Glad to hear a politician outside Europe said. President Bill Clinton once said that Europe is crawling with islamophobes.
76% in my homecountry Sweden thinks that the influx (generally called “the refugeecrisis”) into Europe from the muslim world is destroying the economy here, I just heard on TV while writing.
Lots of people in Europe are hoping that Donald Trump will become the President of the U.S.A. and that if so Europe will follow the same politics.
The EU now demands the so called refugees from the islamic world now coming pouring into Europe should be divided in a fair way.between each european state and especially between those having received few according to the EU standards.
These few countries with few so called refugees according to the EU-standard have formed their own alliance to protect themselves and not to agree with the EU orders. They call themselves the Vysegrad organization. There are some six of them. ( see for example Business Insider February 25 2016.). In Germany the organization has been called the ” anti Merkel alliance. ”
Countries occupied by the Soviet between1945-1990 and badly damaged by nazioccupation and the WW2..
If they do not obey the EU orders, they risk not to get support from the EU. There is an obvious risk the EU will demand the same from the U.S.A. and Canada. Hope that will be rejected if so. Considering the numbers of muslims globally compared with number of citizens in the U.S.A. and Europe and the system they prefer to establish.
Europe is crawling with mosques and islam believers, not with islamophobes. Must not grow.
linnte says
The EU can go Fxxx itself! So can the UN for all I care! USA is a sovereign country, and as far as I am concerned, open borders in the EU is what started this problem – the EU is a PROBLEM! When all those single males who have infiltrated Europe begin their Jihad (all they need is the word from the Caliph) all hell is going to break loose! Gun up Swiss man!
Mark Swan says
Richard Paulsen…All this influx of Muslims will end-up causing Europe to
change…the liberals will regret their tyranny when they shrink in influence.
Be patient my friend…the worm will turn soon enough.
I just heard on the radio as I was reading these comments…Dr. Ben Carson
Is backing Mr. Trump.
Your Great Swedish people will tire of the nonsense that plagues them now…
Chin-up…take care.
(Even a worm will turn is an expression used to convey the message that even
the meekest or most docile creature will respond to a threat)
Daniel Triplett says
Richard
Watching what is happening to your Sweden is scaring the shit out of Americans and waking a lot of them up to the truth of the Islamic global threat.
I’m afraid you’ll have no peaceful solution to this in Europe. The Muslims came to conquer, and will have no interest in polite dis-invitations to leave. The solution will be quite bloody.
With no borders in Europe anymore, the enemy can slide and hide anywhere.
This is Total War.
Here’s my suggested strategy for you. And it will take men with balls. Men like you Richard, to take the lead and save your continent…and the World:
“Total War: Extinguishing Islam from Earth” @dantriplett https://medium.com/@dantriplett/islamic-jihad-is-total-war-for-all-marbles-6c858098b76e
Bezelel says
By saying,”I think islam hates us” The ball is in islam’s court to prove that they don’t. That is by civilized standards. What we’ll get is demands for apologies and labeled racist for even thinking such thoughts.
davej says
Exactly.
Mark Swan says
Of Course
Demsci says
From the Muslims we will get: Nooooo, our one true good Islam is not hating you (denial). Hopeless avenue.
But interestingly, from the Political Corrects, so much the ally of the Muslims against us we will get:
Oh, how can you pretend that there is only one true bad islam. If you do that, you deny that Muslims have a real choice, that between being supremacist-hostile and secular-democratic. With that position we recognize in you immediately a bigot, racist, because you paint all Muslims with the same brush. And, we from now on refuse all discussion with bigots like you. That’s how it goes.
But note in these reactions, that the political correct (PC’s) already are in breach of the “Islam-is-clear”-tenet, that all muslims have. It may give us a possibility to drive a wedge between the Muslims and the political-correct.
The PC’s have already entrenced themselves for ever against “painting all Muslims with one brush” and thus with any one who, in their eyes, does that.
But they might move up their learning curve treating the Muslims. Because IF there is widespread hatred and hostility due to only one of more possible Islam-interpretations, so that that is also one of the multiple interpretations of Islam, as cannot be denied,
that means that the “innocent Muslims”, different from the terrorists, Islamic State, well, that they too must have one of these plural valid legitimate interpretations of Islam.
And it is only logical that we, as in our citizens, media, politicians. on our turf, ask Muslims, under these circumstances to clarify which interpretation of Islam they CHOOSE. Muslims have CHOICE, hence they can be held accountable, when Islam is Multi-interpretable.
The inconsistency of the PC lies in they do not criticize the Muslims for not choosing between competing interpretations, in the face of high prevalence of detrimental interpretations of Islam,
because they accept this Islam-is-clear-tenet from Muslims uncritically, whereas they very strictly maintain to US that there ARE multiple version of Islam.
gray says
I am troubled by the talk above about ‘peaceful Muslims.’ To my mind, it creates a misleading impression. If Islam is pure Evil, and mandates a continual war against the unbeliever, which I suggest it clearly is and it clearly does, then no true Muslim can ever be truly peaceful. Islam demands the complete opposite. So surely ‘the peaceful Muslim’ is not a peaceful Muslim at all, because there can be no such thing. The so-called ‘peaceful Muslim’ is actually an apostate, and we all know what should happen to apostates in Islam, don’t we?
dumbledoresarmy says
Perhaps the right word is something like ‘sleeper’, ‘inactive’ or ‘passive-enabling’, not ‘peaceful’.
Because a Muslim not actively and directly engaged in Jihad can .. all of a sudden… Go Jihad, unexpectedly and violently.
Or a Muslim who has been a ‘cultural’ Muslim can ‘get that old time religion’, become devout and… Go Jihad.
And even if they don’t, their kids or grandkids might and probably will.
The Ummah is the handle of the spear. The actual bombing/ stabbing/ shooting/ car-ramming/ poisoning (etc ) jihadis and sharia assassins (like the bloke who murdered Theo Van Gogh to ‘punish’ him for ‘blaspheming’ by making a film that criticised Islamic misogyny) are the pointy end of the spear.
The apparently-non-hostile or apparently-less-hostile Muslims also function as a ‘human shield’ for the jihadi mass-murderers. Their smiles and wiles – often turned on full force in the wake of this or that violently-murderous Muslim action – function (intentionally or not) as part of a goodcop/bad-cop whipsaw tactic, helping to confuse the targeted Infidels (think of a wife-abuser who beats the crap out of his wife then next morning, all smiles, buys her a huge bunch of flowers and box of chocolates).
Or, to shift to another metaphor I find helpful: the Ummah is the nurturing, sheltering sea within which the jihadis and sharia enforcers swim and from which they ceaselessly emerge. Jihad organisations and ‘cells’ and plots, large and small, both named ‘Franchises’ like Al Qaeda or Hamas, or just a few Muslims ganging up to attack a Jew on a street corner, crystallise as naturally and organically out of the ‘saturated solution’ that is the Ummah, as missionary organisations and all sorts of local and other bodies devoted to the corporal works of mercy (teaching, feeding, healing, providing shelter) ‘crystallise’ out of the ‘saturated solution’ that is the Christian community. When a bunch of murderous jihadis attacked a ‘Missionaries of Charity’ home for the indigent elderly in Aden, Yemen, and murdered a bunch of unarmed nuns what was happening was that the outworking of Islam was manifesting in opposition to the outworking of Christianity.
Mark Swan says
Interesting Analogy
eduardo odraude says
dumbledoresarmy, excellent comment
Folks, to see if “Islam hates us,” check out the links on the right side of this website:
http://www.quotingislam.blogspot.com
Demsci says
Yes, really I cannot refute you and DDA so much,
BUT the OTHER battle is to win the heart and soul and vote of at least a 51 % majority of OUR OWN.
Granted, it seems as if there is ONE TRUE ISLAM, and that is either observed or ignored by the Muslims who therefore seem to be disasters in existence or potential. Their badness depending on their zealousness. There does not seem to be any “Democratic Islam”.
At the same time you will not see a majority of Westerners support the idea that “all Islam is bad, there is only one true bad Islam, therefore all Muslims are guilty or at least untrustworthy”. Not in your lifetime. You will always run up against a wall of political correctness and it’s influence.
But the politicalcorrects do give us a way out, with all their radical and moderate Islam-talk. They make distinctions, so we can make them too.
We can say: Islam is unclear, multi-interpretable, as you concede, therefore there are several valid interpretations. And if you (Political Correct) insist that there must be innocent Muslims, then you also insist that there must be “innocent Islam-interpretations”.
And then comes the question; then why don’t we ask the Muslims to specify their choice of interpretation? When it is obvious to all that Islam is prone to Supremacist hostile interpretations?
If a Muslims is innocent, why then does he/ she insist on being neutral? Why then does he/ she not openly choose a democratic Islam, which is in existence and according to Political Corrects a valid Islam-interpretation?
The Political Correct will not be able to deny the logic of such a demand and the majority will accept that such a demand is made from the Muslims, I hope. And what will their probable refusal then signal to the world?
eduardo odraude says
Bill Warner somewhat like you also tries to do a bit of intellectual judo against those who say there is more than one interpretation of Islam. He uses the force of his opponent’s argument against him. Warner says yes, the core texts of Islam can be interpreted and sometimes are interpreted as peaceful, and can also be interpreted as violently totalitarian. Then Warner goes through the core Islamic texts and literally counts up the number of statements that are tolerant and peaceful, vs. the number that are totalitarian, and shows that the totalitarian statements are present in much higher numbers than the tolerant and peaceful statements. Islam, he says, is in a sense a duality when it comes to tolerance and totalitarianism. A true Muslim must believe both sides of the duality (the well-known Qur’anic principle of abrogation only partly cancels out the earlier peaceful statements in favor of the later totalitarian statements), Warner says. The true Muslim must accept a degree of duality and not be overly worried about the principle of non-contradiction in relation to Allah and the Qur’an. Allah is so omnipotent that he is not bound by any laws, not even the laws of reason and non-contradiction. But, Warner concludes, though Islam is duality, it is mainly totalitarian and intolerant, simply in terms of the overwhelming statistical preponderance of such statements in the core Islamic texts, what Warner calls the “Trilogy” of Qur’an, canonical hadith collections, and Sira (early Muslim biographies of Muhammad).
Jack Diamond says
One judo Warner suggests and that makes tactical sense (in dealing with the non-Muslim apologists) is focusing on the victims of Islam, turning the tables on the leftist narrative that dwells solely on emotion, on victims of oppression, on injustice, on the powerful tyrannizing the weak, and letting the brutality of Islam be viscerally felt without getting into “abstract” intellectual debates about what are or aren’t the legitimate teachings of Islam. That’s fine. There are all kinds of approaches that can be used. That’s different than pretending there are moderate interpretations of Islam that are seriously challenging Real Islam. The Real Islam that hates us. I wouldn’t bet your life on it.
eduardo odraude says
Jack Diamond,
Yes, I have been beating that drum myself, about Warner’s suggestion that we emphasize the victims of Islam, because the PC Left is helpless if one talks about genuine victims. The virtue of Warner’s suggestion is that one need not even mention Islam or criticize Islam directly. People will connect the dots if one points to the victims and asks for help for them, so that Islam’s culpability is indirectly obvious. Warner also emphasizes that emails and websites are not going to do the trick, that we need to meet in person with pastors, rabbis, journalists, priests and politicians and insist on help for the victims and on sanctions against the perpetrators. The latter can be indirectly, as though it were a side issue, identified as people citing core Islamic texts as the basis for their oppressive and violent actions. We have to think not only about the truth, but about how best to persuade people of it — often a direct attack is not the most devastating.
eduardo odraude says
Oh, and there is another great virtue to Warner’s emphasis on the victims. That approach requires zero knowledge of Islam. One does not need to talk about Islam or get into difficult theological debates and be called a bigot and get death-threatening emails or violence from Muslims One simply brings solid data about victims, who just happen to be the victims of Islam. .
abad says
And President-to-be Donald Trump is RIGHT.
And speaking of Islamic hated for the United States of America.
Last night I had a dream that my dear darling convert-to-Islam professor from college played an active role in a plot to commit serious destruction to the United States of America that would make 9-11 look like a spring picnic.
Well.
My dreams normally do not come true.
But, once Trump is at the helm he will be able to prevent such an evil from taking place.
Vote with your heads in the 2016 presidential election.
Trump 2016.
dlbrand says
“Vote with your heads in the 2016 presidential election.
Trump 2016.”
Roger that.
isntlam says
I like Trump for this. He says what every professional politician is terrified of saying, but every sensible person already knows it.
billybob says
I was actually very surprised by Trump’s remark, because previously I wasn’t at all convinced that he “gets” Islam. I feared that he was simply a xenophobe, and reacting to Muslim immigration for the same reasons he reacts to Mexican immigration, without distinction. But in the end, his comment that “Islam hates us” was refreshing and original. Politically, it was artful and a touch brilliant. Like, as a high profile politician, anything said is open to attack. With that short phrase he said so much while leaving little room to criticize him. How can the enemy to truth respond to that? (CAIR). They can’t! Ad hominem attacks is all they have to counter it, and thus they reveal themselves. Score – Trump: 1, CAIR: 0
Daniel Triplett says
Yes, the simpler said, the better. Trump is brilliant.
You don’t become a $10 Billionaire by being stupid. But it’s baffling how many Bazzilionaires are political idiots: Gates, Buffett, and Bloomberg, just to name a few.
Matthiew Baudin says
If Mr Trump wins the Presidency and then looses his nerve and tongue in relation to International Jihadism and the problems within Traditional Islam, then this would amount to an enormous breach of trust with the American People and many others around the world who are desperately looking for new ideas and leadership in this absolutely critical area.
Champ says
Trump should have taken a more accurate stance and said …”islam DOES hate us.”
By stating “I think”, implies that this is simply his opinion–when in fact islam DOES hate us.
billybob says
I disagree. By stating “I think”, he invites us to reason along with him and ponder the situation, rather than telling us what to think, thereby planting seeds of truth in minds that would have shut out the more assertive statement.
Hope says
Ha! I just saw an update, that CAIR is demanding an apology from Trump! He had better not waffle on this one. America is counting on him. Say what you want about Trump, he is the only candidate (after Dr. Carson, of course) to speak out against Islam. Hey, CAIR: Up yours!
Champ says
I just saw an update, that CAIR is demanding an apology from Trump!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And soon more mohammedans will jump on the bandwagon to cover for their ‘religion of hate’.
Next …
linnte says
Champ, how he responds will be a deciding factor for those who are still on the fence about him. I hope he stands STRONG!
Champ says
I hope he stands STRONG!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Me, too, linnte!
Kathy Brown, Esq. says
I love it Hope! You got that right!
Didja hear that Ben Carson’s endorsing OUR MAN? I about burst with happiness when I heard this today.
I think-I pray!-this means The Donald’s going to make the wonderful doctor HHS Sec’y!
How wonderful would that be? We go from baby-killing-Tiller-loving Sibelius (I’m a Kansan and we know ‘way worse about her than all you folks do) to the loving and brilliant Dr. C. Please Lord!
gravenimage says
This is true. Here’s the story:
“Hamas-linked CAIR demands Trump apologize for saying ‘Islam hates us’”
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/03/hamas-linked-cair-demands-trump-apologize-for-saying-islam-hates-us
Of course, CAIR knows that Islam *does* hate us–it’s just that they “filthy Infidel” are not supposed to say so out loud under Shari’ah law.
linnte says
It has dawned on me, Dear Graven, that what Trump said is really NOT hate speech. Not at all. If someone said “I think my neighbor hates me. There really is a lot of hate there and we need to get to the bottom of this”, that person is saying they are willing to chance learning WHY this is by opening dialogue to resolve the concern.
Someone has probably already said this here but how can CAIR claim this is hate speech if what Trump wants is resolution? They just don’t want to have to DEAL with that conversation. Doggonnit! I do not LIKE those professional word twisting creeps!
Arcesilaus says
Leftists deny how much the Muslim stealth invaders are a long-term disaster in the making the same way many on the right deny climate science on a long-term disaster in the making.
Arcesilaus says
*is a long-term
gravenimage says
Trump: “I think Islam hates us”
………………….
Mr. Trump, sir, you are correct!
dlbrand says
Amen.
davej says
I think Trump has really laid down the gauntlet with this absolutely true observation.
It will be interesting to see where we go from here, as someone said this puts Islam on the defense, which is where they should have been for some time.
I hope he follows up by saying the Koran is hate speech and should be banned in America – that will really put Muslims on the defensive, especially because it is undeniable.
billybob says
“It will be interesting to see where we go from here, as someone said this puts Islam on the defense, which is where they should have been for some time.” Very astute! I hope this goes viral like the “shot that was heard around the world” and starts a conversation around the world. Watch Pakistan or Saudi Arabia try to respond to this one. They can’t! Watch ISIS confirm that Islam does indeed hate us all. This could get very interesting. Either you are with us or you are against us. Give us a show of hands. Put your cards on the table. End the nauseating PC BS.
Wayne Petersen says
I just can’t believe that after 1400 years of this muslim aggression that there are people who refuse to see islam for what it is, a death movement for those of us that will not submit to the will of allah.
TruthWFree says
Robert Spencer, you have got to educate Trump on Islam. Surely you have a way to have an audience with him…Cruz also…both need an education on the teachings of Islam…it’s not RADICAL…IT IS ISLAM….as you know.
dlbrand says
I commend Trump, enormously, for his above-cited statements on Islam and the adherents to it and for standing unapologetically by those statements.
Our nation, knowingly or unknowingly, as does our world, pleads for a Leader with the gumption to galvanize the needed God-provided courage, knowledge, and wisdom necessary to address the Islam Issue we face.
To face reality on Islam—and speak accordingly– and on those who live by it takes courage. Courage, thus far, few elected officials have mustered.
Dealing fact based with this issue is by no means pretending it is not, nor is it refraining from stating precisely what the issue is—that fool-headed, cowardice-hearted course we have followed, at great cost to us and others, for over 15 years.
At last we have a “Leader” among us with the courage to call that foolishness, that waste, precisely that; and for promising; to the best of his ability to do so, to end it.
Vote Trump!
RICHTHOFEN says
Trump is so right. Yes, islam does hate us and the lack of resistance/action by so-called ‘moderate’ muslims clearly shows that there can be no such thing as a ‘moderate’ muslim – in fact, their cult’s mantra expressly forbids that at pain of death. Islam is at war with all non muslims – they are even at war with other muslim factions – internecine conflict is a way of life for them. Unfortunately, even Trump holds back a little since he knows that political correctness, etc., constrains how truthful he can be without damaging his own cause. To understand why the MSM, politicians, governments and deluded individuals do not condemn islam and proscribe it as an illegal organisation which, of course, we should have done long ago, just look up the Coudenhove-Kalergi plan – this will provide many answers to what is going on in the world.
mortimer says
The Koran does not use a word that means ‘moderate’, but ‘hypocrite’. For Mohammed the ‘hypocrite’ Muslim is one who refuses to fight in jihad. Such a person should be killed.
Most Muslims today refuse to go on jihad. By calling themselves ‘moderate’ Muslims, they are trying to present themselves as respectable both to other Muslims and to the kafirs. The fact remains that every Muslim who refuses jihad is a ‘hypocrite’ according to the hadiths and Koran.
EyamhooEyam says
It is worth recognizing that Donald Trump has the most to lose, on a personal level, by seeking the presidency and by being so outspoken. Of all the candidates, on both sides, Trump has the most to lose by speaking truth to power.
In short, he exhibits incredible courage and any thoughtful voter should be proud to cast a ballot for Trump as our next president.
If Hillary gains the White House, the Muslims will make the Mongol hoards and the Viking raiders look like the Little Rascals.
The only way one can reconcile the stance of the Obama administration is to accept that the government has already been infiltrated by this hideous cult called Islam. Only a Donald Trump can root them out and restore the security of our country.
Please cast your vote for this courageous man!
DR J DE LOS ANGELES says
After a poor verbal start, I believe that Trump is more intelligent than than most people think. I believe that Robert should start getting close to Donald. Being an advisor would be great, being Secretary of State would be wonderful and beyond all our Jihad Watch dreams.
As a Catholic, like Robert, I recently wrote to the Cardinal Archbishop of Westminster and suggested that the Pope should use Robert as an advisor on Islam an not a muslim academic who would have been be practicing “taqiyyah” when advising an infidel like the Pope. Against all expectation I got a very sympathetic reply.
The Archbishop of Canterbury said yesterday that people who feared mass immigration should not be labelled “racist”. It was a reasonable fear.
Is the worm, at last, beginning to turn?
God Bless Robert and Jihad Watch in all the great work that they do.
Paul Sutliff says
You should have looked at my article on this,http://paulsutliff.blogspot.com/2016/03/why-clarion-project-is-wrong-about.html
Demsci says
Paul, I read your article. It argues clearly that there is “No moderate Islam” and that there is no meaningful distinction between radical and extremist Islam””.
Yet at the republican debate yesterday Ted Cruz of all politicians reiterated that “screaming” “all Muslims are bad”” “is not the solution”, in a response to Donald Trump.
In your article I believe you sketched the real situation with Muslims with a high level of accuracy, yes. The attitude of the Muslims is hopeless and unchangeable, yes.
Now focus on our own side, and on our own Tenets, and ratio. If even Ted Cruz, and as you know Clarion Project, and Daniel Pipes, fierce freedom fighters all, will NOT CONSENT to “painting all Muslims with the same brush”, then who will??? Will we ever get a majority in our parliaments who will do that?? NOOOOO, NEVER, not even with Trump or Cruz as president.
And when WE, non-Muslims, argue that there is no difference between radicals and moderates, and no meaningful differences in Islam-interpretation at all, then we most certainly are doing that which will preclude us ever having a majority in parliament for our policy, because we then automatically “paint all Muslim with the same brush”!!!
But think about it, why should we, Westerners imitate Muslims??? First of all, when they say that Islam is clear, and there is only one true Islam, which they all (must) do, we should in vast majority reject that very clarity-tenet totally.
And regardless how many followers one or other version of Islam has, that version is still only one of many possible valid versions!
The point is; we in vast majority should have as tenet, no matter what, but Islam IS …NOT … CLEAR. Therefore, it is a MYTH, according to US, regardless of what Muslims say, do or choose, that there is ONE TRUE ISLAM.
And the Islam-interpretation of Zuhdi Jasser, Irshad Manji, Tarek Fatah, Majid Nawaz, secular Islam is every bit as valid, legitimate as the beliefsystem of the whole Sunni world together. That is what our tenet should be.
Zuhdi Jasser does NOT DECEIVE us, when he, or at least we vehemently say that Islam has divers valid Interpretations and that there is no one true Islam. Again, regardless how many followers the other interpretations have.
And also regardless whether the other Muslims brand Zuhdi et al as apostates. No, we say, HE is as much an apostate as you all are. There simply is not ONE TRUE ISLAM and not ONE valid interpretation of it. Because Islam is fundamentally UNCLEAR, TOO CONTRADICTIVE.
This will be an attitude that Cruz or Trump can use, with which they can try to get a majority. And With this attitude it becomes possible to say the following:
We can not say: All Muslims are bad??? OK, but YOU cannot say : all Muslims are good!
Believing just in Islam in a Democratic Nation has become irresponsibly vague and the need for reliable distinction between “good and bad”Muslims has become paramount for defense of country and democracy!!!
And WHY won’t Muslims openly choose which they favor??? Democracy or Totalitarianism??? Due to Multi-interpretably they must, according to us, have a choice, which they would not have had if only ONE TRUE ISLAM existed. They have the choice to choose for Zuhdi et al, for his perfectly valid version. To become the positive exception among the Muslims.
And we can take it from there. But it is appalling that people like you, with great arguments, granted, nevertheless buy into the ISLAMIC TENET OF ONE TRUE ISLAM. And that you thereby Ensure that there will never be a majority for sensible defense against the “bad Muslims”, or “all Muslims”.
Demsci says
Of course I meant that there is no meaningful distinction between radical and moderate Islam.
Sorry.
Jack Diamond says
Oh bullshit. You’re a contortionist. Jasser has no following whatsoever among Muslims, just among kaffirs. Muslims decide what Islam is, not you and me. There is something to be said for telling the truth, and for not turning ourselves into pretzels so not to offend anyone. Trump may have to be vague given the political culture, we don’t. I find murder and tyranny offensive. I find Muhammad offensive. I find Islam offensive. Unambiguously.
Demsci says
Muslims are indeed completely hopeless to talk with. But as a convinced democrat I want us to win with a majority of our own people.
2 observations; Mainstream Media and Parties will never allow us to get a majority behind sensible anti-Islam protection measures when …… We, in their eyes “paint all Muslims with one brush” which is what we do if we concede that “Moslims decide what Islam is or is not” and thus say there is only one true Islam. Which we then describe as bad.
But … The Mainstream Media and Parties also feel a huge pressure, in many democratic countries where the anti-Islam-parties are winning.
But not enough to convince the damned majority. Hell, the best parties, presidential candidates, like Cruz, even Trump, will ALL keep saying ALWAYS: “Don’t paint Muslims with the same brush”! So people like me are looking for a compromise.
And NO, ON OUR TURF, we also may have an independent opinion about what Islam and is not. We have a legion of Islam-experts, including the best Historians, like Tom Holland, Robert Spencer.
Why the hell would we leave it to the Muslims to decide how we view Islam???
To begin with, why would we just like all Muslims theorize that Islam is so clear that there can be only one true version of Islam?!
And I repeat; ON our own turf! With our own best minds and best knowledge and best logic.
Jack Diamond says
Then I’ll repeat what I replied to you earlier: How about we decide it for them. No jihad, no sharia allowed. Zero tolerance. Since they are moderate Muslims who so clearly reject such violent, intolerant, antidemocratic “interpretations” of Islam, there should be no problem. Right? Would your democrats have a problem with that plank? Let’s all play pretend together.
UNCLE VLADDI says
Demsci has been defending islam since forever at Daniel Pipes etc.
He’s been told and told, and given all the facts many times, yet he keeps on insisting that “islam is not clear, therefore it’s only an opinion!”
Then he ways we have no right to self-defense, because defending our selves with violence from islam’s criminal initiatory violence will somehow make us equally as bad as they – as if self defense is as immoral as the criminals’ offensive violence.
Like all liberals, he decries us as being immoral for lumping all muslims together – and yet that’s exactly islam’s reason for existing, is to lump together and declare eternal violence against all non-muslims!
So he says he’s against people doing who lump together all the members of a different religion and then advocate for the use of violence to attack them, but he really only means he’s against that sort of thing when it’s white people doing it in response to the swarthy “muslim” criminals declarations of intent on doing it first!
He refuses to learn.
Ignore him – he’s a troll.
Demsci says
United we stand, divided we fall. Don’t be so impatient with and dismissive of me. You should know my circumstances; always surrounded by political correct people, in family, company, my whole country.
Countless time been frustrated when I eagerly, honestly tried to discuss Islam & Democracy. With Muslims, with white people, black people. Because everywhere there is this discussion-stopper: DO NOT GENERALISE MUSLIMS.
And all of you must know how the media operate, how the leaders of America, UK, Holland, Germany,, everywhere forbid that, and now even Cruz forbids it. And Trump, he can be, err, inconsistent.
All of them operate the whole time, every single time with the distinction among Muslims. Robert Spencer reports on it ceaselessly. It was like this in 2001 and it still is like this today.
But if we are forbidden to proclaim Islam is all bad, I propose that we forbid them to proclaim Islam is all good.
And when we agree on that, AND we see the 30000 Muslim attacks since 9/11, and Islamic State, and Iran, shows us all the urgent need of some kind of meaningful DISTINCTION among Muslims. And that can only be done through different Islam-interpretations, hence UNCLARITY of Islam.
Talking to Muslims is completely hopeless I know by now.
My deepest desire it is to get a majority from us to cooperate against them. Because confrontation could throw up undesirable anti-democrats among ourselves. Confrontation is what Islamic State wants. And of course division among the Kuffars.
Uncle Vladdi taught me MUCH. But he still came up with only the CLEAR verses of Quran-Hadiths-Sira that were clearly supremacist, violent, very very bad. And then he came up with the attitude of millions of Muslims, which was very bad. And I agreed.
But does he think learning goes only one way, from him to me? Am I the open-minded one and he the closed-minded one?
But it was NOT THE WHOLE PICTURE that he covered, not of Islam; Quran-Hadiths-Sira, and NOT of all Muslims. And in the whole picture; Islam gets very contradictory, prone to cherrypicking, prone to very bad interpretations, but by the same token to better ones.
And Muslims? Can they only choose between disinterested or radical? Or can they choose between genuinely different interpretations of Islam? Especially on our turf, when we pressure them?
Uncle Vladdi mentioned Pipes, and what about Mauro of Clarion Project, will he call them trolls too? Because I am almost EXACTLY like them.
I never defended Islam, I pointed to it’s very low quality of clarity, which precludes, to a rational mind, that it is to be considered clear, as Uncle Vladdi maintains.
That very clarity of Islam is a tenet of Islam. And he concurs!!! Only the conclusion of the Muslims that Islam has one true version, which is good, and Uncle Vladdi says Islam has one true version which is bad.
But by concurring at least that Islam is clear and has only one true version, it is Uncle Vladdi that respects Islam more than I do. I think Islam is a mess. out of which no one true version CAN arise.
Demsci says
uncle vladdi was just now resorting to straw man fallacy. I never advocated what he said I advocated, at least as he describes it. I can just as easily “strawman” him too. But such a confrontation would be useless and boring.
Demsci says
Can’t people see that saying “it is just an opinion, one among many” that that is emasculating Islam? Sensed deeply it means, not only supremacist, bad-to-the-core-Islamic interpretations are only opinions, but also that many other opinions about Islam are possible. Despite denials of Muslims; which we can safely ignore.
Obama’s big lie is that that is not the case; that somehow there is only one true Islam, a good one, and not as an opinion but as a certainty!
Uncle Vladdi might be afraid that the masses only consider the Islamic State opinion as relative and dismiss it’s danger and that they believe in Obama’s version.
But of course intelligent, knowledgeable Westerners can also now consider all beneficial Islamic interpretations as mere opinions and dismiss their apologizing, denying nature as well.
What remains is intelligent, effectic distinction between Muslims by US.
Daniel Triplett says
@Demsci and Jack Diamond
I agree with Jack.
For starters Demsci, you’re a liberal, which says a whole lot about you. Please try to twist your head on straight and become Conservative.
Secondly, you’re making this WAY too complicated. There’s no reason to twist the truth around so that the masses, ie “the dumb, simple folk” in your mind can understand Islam.
Keep it simple and truthful. That’s what works best for everything from making pancakes to building the Saturn V Rocket vehicle.
The truth is in the Quran and Sunnah. Anyone who reads the Quran, with the understanding of Abrogation, will understand the truth of Islam. It will scare the shit out of them, and they will become Counter-jihadists instantly. They will join our side, wanting to learn more. They’ll spend time on JW, PG, David Wood, and others.
Give people some credit. They’re not stupid if you explain the simple truth to them (unless they’re Democrats). Make it easy. That’s always best.
You’re starting to sound like my liberal, arrogant, know-it-all brother who thinks he’s always the smartest guy in the room. The irony is he always knows the least. He thinks I (and every other military vet) spent 6 years in combat as a USAF pilot because I was “brainwashed” by George W. Bush, and vets can’t think for themselves.
He thinks I’m a monster because I’d kill millions in a millisecond with nuke weapons if given the order. A lengthy discussion with the President about the morality and necessity of such action would be in order before pushing the button, in his mind. Thank God we have extensive psych evaluations to prevent people like him from manning the missiles.
Daniel Triplett says
Islam is Islam, and it’s pure evil. There’s just one Quran they all worship.
Jasser is dangerous, misleading people into thinking there’s a peaceful version of Islam, or that it can somehow be reformed.
To reform Islam would deny the initial “perfection” of Allah’s word and Muhammad, “the perfect man.” To suggest this is Blasphemy, punishable by death.
This is why Islam hasn’t changed in 1400 years. It won’t change in another 10,000 years. All we can do is make the “practice or promotion” of Islam a Capital Felony, and force every nation on Earth to do the same.
Here’s the plan:
“Total War: Extinguishing Islam from Earth” @dantriplett
https://medium.com/@dantriplett/islamic-jihad-is-total-war-for-all-marbles-6c858098b76e
Demsci says
And, should Muslims and their helpers turn on us when we say that Islam is not clear and that Zuhdi’s interpretation is as valid as the next, by asking; Do you think you know Islam better than the Muslims do??
Our answer should be: No, but when we say that Islam is not clear, that is not a tenet of Islam, but it is now a tenet of democracy!!! And we democratic citizens know Democratic ideology best!
Keys says
You want to understand Islam? Don’t ask a Muslim, you get different opinions, schools, and major divisions. Is that your point? Who speaks for Islam? Allah and his final prophet.
So get it from the source, just as Dr. Bill Warner says: read the Koran ( the alleged word of Allah) and sunna (Mohammad’s life to be emulated) and learn about the history of Islam (violence, conquest, war, enslavement, sexual perversion, etc.).
Then you will get an idea of the evil that Islam is. And wonder why any Muslim accepts this.
Demsci says
Keys, I DON’t want to understand Islam. I want to understand very much the ideology of the West, the democratic ideology, started with Enlightenment, infinitely superior to Islam, for THAT I know Islam enough.
How to ensure the ultimate victory of the better ideology?! That is my goal.
gravenimage says
Demsci wrote:
And, should Muslims and their helpers turn on us when we say that Islam is not clear and that Zuhdi’s interpretation is as valid as the next, by asking; Do you think you know Islam better than the Muslims do??
………………………..
Unfortunately, Demsci, orthodox Muslims *do* know Islam.
Trying to convince Muslims that Islam is not really violent and oppressive will get us nowhere.
Zuhdi Jasser is such an outlier that he has been thrown out of his own Mosque, and has been unable to find another place that will even allow him to worship.
Jasser may or may not be sincere in his rose-colored view of Islam, but it does not really matter–he has no influence on his fellow Muslims at all. The only ones who ever pay the least attention to him are hopeful Infidels who really, really want to believe in a “moderate” Islam.
Demsci says
Peace, Gravenimage, my message is complex, but bear with me.
Yes he is thrown out of his own mosque etc. Muslims are hopeless, I have given up on them, they can only be forced, but by a majority of us!
I am talking about the attitude WE Westerners should take. My targetgroup is the undecided among US, not them. To get to a 51 % majority to finally take meaningful measures, which politicians like Cruz and Trump are open to. But only if a majority is, when a compromise is reached. on the basis of reasonable, reasoned requests.
Since we are forbidden and blockaded when we generalise Muslims, when we declare all Muslims either bad in existence or potential, then still it is only reasonable, in view of 30000 or so Muslim attacks, to insist that it is ALSO ludicrous to generalise Muslims as all good,
what remains is going for a real meaningful, effective distinction among Muslims, done by responsible Western citizens, media and politicians. Pipes and Mauro want as much as that.
If you are a democrat in heart and soul, it is a majority that you want, not a minority, who desires to defend that very democracy.
Demsci says
And Gravenimage, I may be in the minority here, but my experience, my reading, the reports of Spencer, Geller, Wood etc. convince me that the regular posters on Jihad Watch are the MINORITY out there, in the whole world.
linnte says
Demsci, from experience, I totally disagree with your premise that JW folks are a minority!
I am living proof. Last year I was convinced that Muslims and Islam were wonderful, peaceful, enlightened people and I rather envied their dedication to God. Then I read the Qur’an to prove to myself that people speaking out about Islam as bad, were wrong. SURPRISE! They are right, and little nobody me from a tiny town in Oregon read it for myself.
Each person I come in contact with gets to hear my “conversion” story! They listen and learn and I prove to them using Islam’s words against itself. I have made this my work in life for now.
My point being, if I am doing this, then others are doing this. Mostly everyone I speak to in person is aware of the Islam issue BEFORE I start the conversation. This whole country is learning, Demsci. Whether FOR or AGAINST Islam, it is the conversation of the day. And the more people who read the Qur’an and Hadith, the more Islam proves itself to be despicable.
Demsci says
Linnte, I am very glad to hear it.
It is not the case in Rotterdam, Holland, where I live. Rather, it seems the whole subject of discussion about Islam is declared off limits, taboo.
When I confront Muslims, which I am well equipped to do, with my knowledge and memory and my conviction Islam is (interpreted) very anti-democratic and agressive,
then I am, metaphorically speaking, always surrounded by …… Political Correct people, traitors, who with the Muslims form a majority coalition against me.
I always run up against the brick wall, that Generalisation of Muslims is not allowed and immediately punished with the words Racist and Bigot. And the assurance that there are sooooo many nice innocent Muslims.
The enemy-propaganda has succeeded and the “swing-people” the ones we need to finally get the majority to implement meaningfull defense against Islam, as JW wants it, have been indoctrinated very deeply.
That is when I or other counterjihadists insist on some kind of one true all bad Islam.
Because that is immediately interpreted AND rejected by the Muslims, the Islam-defenders,
but also by the “swing-people”, and everywhere around me, and also in the vast majority of media, political parties. Oh yes, when I speak out as you do, I am definitely in the minority and have been since 9/11.
But maybe slowly but surely the Western dmocratic citizens are waking up, and we are seeing it reflected in some brave politicians like Trump and Cruz. Thanks for the positive message.
Charles Martel says
Well, get this into the hands of Trump! Those of us who read your newsletter don’t need to see it.
jerry skinner says
I will purchase an infidels copy of the Quran and send it to Donald Trump with a copy of this article. He knows history, he may even be aware enough to know the history of Mohammeds rise to power and the events following just after his death in 632AD. Know the history, read the book and Donald will know more than any President since Jefferson faced the reality of the Barbary states motivation.
If you are going to be President, learn Donald, learn. The hatred is real and it is inbred by centuries of belief and practice.
Gerald Mucci says
I am becoming more convinced that Trump knows more about Islam than he is saying. He is just holding back on the details so he doesn’t get crucified by the media. Can you imagine Pam Gellar or Robert Spencer running for President with what they have said?
eduardo odraude says
Sometimes perhaps we focus too much on the content of Islam criticism and not enough on the art of persuasion — http://www.citizenwarrior.com focuses a great deal on that art and how to win over people to an acknowledgement of the danger of Islam.
Bill Warner makes an excellent point in one of his videos. The most effective counter-Islam strategy focuses not on Islam itself, but on the victims. The Left is helpless if one is standing up for victims. One need not attack Islam and need not even mention Islam, but only cry out with information and calls for help to victims of it. Your audience can then connect the dots for themselves when given background information that indirectly point to Islam. For info on Islam’s victims, one might start by looking at some of the links at Raymond Ibrahim’s website (google Raymond Ibrahim).
Bill Warner also emphasizes that it is not very helpful to fight against Islam by sending out emails or building websites. Much more important is for people to have in-person meetings with what Warner calls the “near enemy,” namely non-Muslims who might be inclined to defend Islam, such as priests, pastors, rabbis, journalists, and politicians, and educate them about the victims. and ask for help in serving the victims.
Demsci says
Eduardo, Champ, and others, I saw the video’s of Bill Warners several times and I could not agree more with him. I have divers books about the detrimental influence of Islam and I think we have the much better ideology and am in writing and discussing the defender of that.
I just think that on, in addition to that, we rational Westerners should not dignify, honor Islam with judging it to be clear, consistent, allah-given etc. even if the dumb sheeplike Muslims do that in big numbers.
Glad to be democratic alles with you
Jack Gordon says
Please notice how Donald Trump has so seamlessly introduced the whole question of Islam into the mainstream discourse in American politics. Now he has gone further and also introduced the question of the evil that is at the heart of the religion of the Koran. This man is simply a political genius, FDR on steroids.
Don Kleim says
Holy shit. How long did it take him to figure that out? Obama knows it, just won’t acknowledge it.
Truth Seeker says
Not New Invention, only belated Expression. Islam Hates every other who is not Sycophant within or outside that Religion. If there is No Hatred There is No Islam.
Dracula says
Just give the guy an annotated and earmarked Koran. Perhaps Dr. Spencer can mail one to his campaign.
Mitch says
Donald Trump’s popularity around here seems based on the perception, the wish, the projection, that he’d be a strong counter-jihadist.
We all want that.
But if we get that at the expense of our constitution, we will have lost the war. After eight years of a lawless president, a legislating Supreme Court, an abdicating Congress, we need a return to founding principals, not we’ll-show-em-this-time-because our guy is the “patriotic” type of executive-order-signer. Lawlessness is not patriotic. Later, after the republic is completely lost, will be the time for strongmen.
We need a president now; not another ruler. We have immigration law. Enforce it. We have laws against treason. Enforce them. Sanctuary cities? End them. Supreme Court originalists? Nominate them. Cruz, and only Cruz, will perform these duties with 100% certainty. He does what he says he’ll do, even if his face doesn’t twist into a magenta scowl when he says it.
Will Trump do these essential things? We can hope. He says one thing on Fox, another at a rally, another to the New York Times Editorial Board behind closed doors.
For instance, his current immigration policy isn’t as tough as when his campaign began: he’s going to kick out illegals and then let a bunch back in after touch-back (the “good ones”).
Cruz, and only Cruz, has said: The law is clear. If you’re here illegally, you’re deported, kids or no kids. Cruz, and only Cruz, has said that he will rescind every illegal executive order Obama has signed. (No other candidate has said this because no other candidate is against illegal executive orders per se.)
Trump, a lifelong liberal, has funded some of the most powerful Democrat friends that the Muslim Brotherhood has, including Hillary during her previous White House run.
He publicly criticized Pamela Geller’s Draw Muhammed contest in Garland. No, that doesn’t make him a special pleader for jihadists. But it shows that he doesn’t understand that free speech is a bulwark against jihad.
But who needs free speech when we have The Donald?
Trump might win the nomination. If so, he’ll have a difficult time in the general. His negatives — higher than Hillary’s — are likely too high for him to win. These negatives should grow once the media take their gloves off. Increased rabidity by Trump’s followers will do little to win over his detractors. I will support him if he wins the nomination but many conservative lovers of the Constitution will not.
To those of you who are not all-in for Trump, and who believe that the Constitution, rule of law, and Judeo-Christian values are our safeguard against Sharia: rally to Ted Cruz.
Gerald Mucci says
Islam needs to be considered a seditious ideology at odds with our Constitution, culture and freedoms. Consequently, Islam should not be given Constitutional protections. Islam will prevail if we do. Accommodation to a supremacist ideology will lead to subjugation.
UNCLE VLADDI says
Let’s get this straight, once and for all:
MUHAMMAD HIMSELF DIDN’T BELIEVE IN WAITING FOR “THE LAST DAY” (OF JUDGMENT)!
When he first designed islam to enrich himself, Muhammad’s plan was to move up the Judgment Day timetable from God in the Afterlife, to himself in the here and now. That’s how Moe sought to usurp and rival God’s power by claiming He gave him the duty to judge us by bringing “inevitable” Hell down to us here on earth!
It also shows Muhammad didn’t personally really believe in one of islam’s own main “pillars:” that of “The Last Day (of Judgment)!” – at all LOL!
So in Islam, people will no longer have to wait to be judged individually for their personal crimes, because Moe has lumped people who disagree with his claims to represent God’s judgment today into a group he also claims God has pre-judged – even specifically made – guilty until never proven innocent: the “Infidels,” ALL of whom whom Moe preposterously sentenced to “Death By Muslim” for their simple “crime” of being “unfaithful” hypocrites in denying that they were really all born ‘muslims,’ too!
So islam obviates the need for any god at all, replacing him with Muhammad. (Not to mention it slanders god as a sadistic slaver who deliberately creates “infidels” so he can torture them in hell forever).
Bottom line: anyone who thinks this stuff through for even a half a second should know better than to believe God wants them to go to Hell for being “infidel” (unfaithful) hypocrites for refusing to admit that they believe in Moe’s version of Him (and so also for refusing to give Moe all of their camels).
UNCLE VLADDI says
Much much more, here:
http://unclevladdi.blogspot.ca/2015/11/muslims-ignore-paranoid-madman-muhammad.html
Njoi!
😉
August West says
Mr Spencer,
I have shared your views that Mr Trump is anti free speech primarily because of his reaction to the events in Garland TX. While I still have reservations about Trump, his recent statements voicing the obvious fact Islam hates the Infidel are noteworthy for several reasons:
1)He is unique in the Republican field in stating this obvious fact.
2)When asked to differentiate between “Radical” and “Moderate” Islam by Cooper he did not take the bait. This is monumental as even Cruz differentiates between “Radical” and “Moderate” Islam. It is clearly wrong to make this false differentiation, and Trump is unique in not doing so.
3)We now have the opportunity to clearly see where Trump stands in his reaction to intimidation by CAIR.
I think it is wise to re-evaluate the decision to support or not support Trump based on this interview.
If he holds his ground, I will clearly support him.
UNCLE VLADDI says
Liberal criminals have been told and told, and given all the facts many times, yet keep on insisting that “Islam (‘just like the Bibles’) is contradictory and unclear, therefore it’s only an opinion!”
Then they say we have no right to self-defense, because defending our selves with violence from islam’s criminal initiatory violence will somehow make us equally as bad as they – as if self defense is as immoral as the criminals’ offensive violence.
They decry us as being immoral for lumping all muslims together – and yet that’s exactly what islam does, and is in fact islam’s only reason for existing: to lump together and declare eternal violence against all the world’s non-muslims!
So they say they’re against people who lump together all the members of a different religion and then advocate for the use of violence to attack them, (even in self-defense) but they really only mean they’re against that sort of thing when it’s white people doing it in response to the swarthy “muslim” criminals declarations of intent on doing it first!
So just ask liberals to clarify:
“Are you against people who lump all the members of other religions together, and then endorse the use of violence against them all – Yes or No?”
When they say “Yes, of course!”
Then ask them: “Is it permissible to use violence to defend one’s self &/or innocent others from such violence-initiating people – Yes or No?”
😉
Demsci says
Uncle Vladdi, if you care to listen to me, and stop reading what I have to say with the prejudice that I think like those liberals, you might be pleasantly surprised! And why don’t we listen to each other and improve ourselves and our counterjihadist movement?
Your analysis of Islam is well thought out. And I agree 99 % with it. YES, YES, YES, the Muslims DO LUMP all Kuffars together, to the detriment of all liberals in the end, when they are no longer needed. A grim comfort. Yes, the Liberals have huge double standards!
If Liberal Criminals really argue like you say, they are talking bullshit! And I am nowhere near that position.
You noticed that they decry lumping all Muslims together when we do that. And that’s true. But you see that then means that they must admit, that Islam must have different interpretations. Now, no Muslim ever admits THAT, and so the liberals already differ from them. We can drive a wedge!
But they do something far worse than the above. In a very hypocrite turnaround, at other times they implicitly, treacherously DENY that Islam must have different interpretations. then they “paint all Muslims with a white brush”.
It is outrageous because if it benefits Muslims and Islam-defenders Islam is portrayed as having diverse opinions they say that, but most of the time they portray, just like all Muslims do, Islam as clear and amounting to “”one true good religion”.
And that is what we must fight tooth and nail. We can keep the Muslim-defenders at their word when they said that Islam must be divers; because it means ALSO the very supremacist-hostile-violent interpretations are valid and not false and not twisted. We must never cease to emphasize that.
Then all their propaganda is worthless. and the swingpeople will hopefully see how IRRESPONSIBLE it has become for Muslims to be just Muslim, without clarification, because their trustworthyness gets very low in view of the very popular but valid, not false, interpretation of all these many terrorists.
So you see, my strategy it is to concede Multi-interpretability, thus holding liberals to their word, which already deviates from the Islamic tenet, and to not let them ever revert to the same tenet, when we do not pay attention on their propaganda. And so never let them advocate anything like some beneficial one true good islam.
And when we are prohibited to lump muslims together in a bad way, so we can make sure they cannot do that in a good way either.
As we must be both good democrats, this is my strategy to finally get to a majority for sensible defensive narrative and measures against Islam. Otherwise we keep “hitting this brick wall”.
Anyway I also wanted to prevent you from honoring and dignifying ISLAM too much. That pathetic collection of Quran-Sahih Hadiths-Sira, which can now never again be improved upon, does nowhere near deserve that the judgement that it IS ABLE to produce a CLEAR ONE TRUE VERSION, with huge contradictions, incompleteness, gibberish interspersed.
At least let us disagree agreeably, Divided we fall, United we stand
Howard Rotberg says
Robert – what is the deal with the Saudi Muslim Brotherhood-supporting Huma Abedin who is Hillary’s best bud, senior aide and now co-chair of her electiona campaign?
(Dr.) Sandy Kramer says
I used to think Obama was the least knowledgeable person to ever aspire to be president. Alas, I was in error.
Kathy Brown, Esq. says
Don’t feel too badly Sandy. The vast majority of Americans couldn’t even imagine Zero’s level of evil. The important thing is that you learned better, and say so!
The problem is all the people who were, and are, SO STUPID that they know nothing, and care less.
UNCLE VLADDI says
SO, YOU THINK DONALD J. TRUMP IS MORE IGNORANT THAN MUBARAK HUSSEIN OSAMA ABOUT THE TRUE NATURE OF ISLAM? YOU’RE PROBABLY RIGHT ABOUT THAT, BUT FOR ALL THE WRONG REASONS – TROLL!
rabrooks says
No. Pislam hates everyone, including other mudslimes. Just that simple.
UNCLE VLADDI says
“HATE” IN THE QUR’AN:
Islam is the religion of hate. For Muslims, to hate is pious. It is called al bara (hatred for the sake of Allah).
http://quranicverse99.tripod.com/islamicways/id15.html
Al bara is the ultimate expression of faith. Muslims prove their love for Allah (al wala’) by hating the non-Muslims.
Islam divides mankind between Muslims and kafirs – aka “The DIRT” – a derogatory term that means denier of truth, blasphemer – and instills the hatred of the unbelievers in the believers.
We can never have peace when a fifth of mankind adheres to an ideology of hate and worships a psychopath who said non-Muslims are:
najis (filthy) (9:28),
don’t befriend them (9:23),
let them find harshness in you (9:123),
instill terror in their hearts (8:12),
slay them wherever you find them (9:5),
and their property and women are made halal to you, enjoy them, they are lawful and good (8:69).”
Some of ALLAH’S HATE-FILLED VERSES:
Koran 40:35 “They who dispute the signs (verses) of Allah without authority having reached them are greatly hated by Allah and the believers.” (Note: not just “hated”, but “greatly hated”.)
Koran 28:86 “Do not support the kafireen in any way.”
Koran 5.51 “He amongst you who turns to them (for friendship) is of them.”
Koran 48:29: “Muhammad is God’s apostle. Those who follow him are violent to the unbelievers, but compassionate to one another.”
Koran 8:60 “Terrorize the enemy of Allah and your enemy”
Koran 60:4 “We have rejected you, and there has arisen between us and you enmity and hatred, until you believe and worship Allaah alone.”
Koran 3: 118 “O you who believe! Do not take into your intimacy those outside your ranks. They will not fail to corrupt you.
-from Ahmad Sirhindi (1564-1624).
“The honour of Islam lies in insulting kufr and kafirs. One who respects the kafirs dishonours the Muslims… The real purpose of levying jiziya on them is to humiliate them to such an extent that they may not be able to dress well and to live in grandeur. They should constantly remain terrified and trembling. It is intended to hold them under contempt and to uphold the honour and might of Islam.”
-from ibn Taymiyya, “Book of Emaan”
“… true believers show animosity and hatred towards disbelievers and never support them.”
-from a lecture given by Sheikh Abdullah al-Faisal (H.A.):
“The implication of al-Baraa is that one hates for the sake of Allah (SWT)…Al-Baraa means to recognize who your enemies are and to hate them and exterminate them in their Endeavour to get rid of your Deen, al-Islam…Al-Baraa is to hate the people who propagate Baatil (falsehood)—the Muslim should hate them and (at least desire to) kill them when the time comes.”
(Note: A Muslim is to hate the infidels so that he will be motivated to kill them at a later time, thus carrying out Allah’s justice.)
Quran (2:191-193)
Quran (2:244)
Quran (2:16)
Quran (3:56)
Quran (3:151)
Quran (3:74)
Quran (3:76)
Quran (4:89)
Quran (4:95)
Quran (4:104)
Quran (5:33)
Quran (8:12)
Quran (8:15)
Quran (8:39)
Quran (8:57)
Quran (8:67)
Quran (8:59-60)
Quran (8:65)
Quran (9:5)
Quran (9:14)
Quran (9:20)
Quran (9:29)
Quran (9:30)
Quran (9:38-39)
Quran (9:41-42)
Quran (9:73)
Quran (9:88)
Quran (9:111)
Quran (9:123)
Quran (17:16)
Quran (18:65-81)
Quran (21:44)
Quran (25:52)
Quran (33:60-62)
Quran (47:3-4)
Quran (47:35)
Quran (48:17)
Quran (48:29)
Quran (61:4)
Quran (61:10-12)
Quran (66:9)
(The following verses are from the Hadith)
Bukhari (52:177)
Bukhari (52:256)
Bukhari (52:56)
Bukhari (52:220)
Abu Dawud (14:2526)
Abu Dawud (14:2527)
Muslim (1:33)
Bukhari (8:387)
Muslim (1:30)
Bukhari (52:73)
Bukhari (11:626)
Muslim (1:149)
Muslim (20:4645)
Muslim (20:4696)
Muslim (19:4321-4323)
Muslim (19:4294)
Bukhari (1:35)
Tabari (7:97)
Tabari (9:69)
Tabari (17:187)
Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 484
Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 990
Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 992
Saifur Rahman, The Sealed Nectar p. 227-228?