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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Video: Ex-Muslim uses Qur’an and Sunnah to answer question: Is the Islamic State Islamic?

Mar 12, 2016 10:02 am By Robert Spencer

In these three videos, Hazem Farraj, an ex-Muslim, examines the question of whether or not the Islamic State is Islamic. He gives the answers straight from the Qur’an and Sunnah.

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Filed Under: Islamic State (aka ISIS, ISIL, Daesh), Jihad doctrine Tagged With: Hazem Farraj


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Comments

  1. jihad3tracker says

    Mar 12, 2016 at 10:33 am

    FOR THOSE OF US WHO STILL HAVE CLUELESS FAMILY, FRIENDS, CLERGY, NATIONAL AND STATE ELECTED OFFICIALS, PLEASE CONSIDER SENDING A LINK TO THIS VIDEO.

    For the people in those groups who are of the multi-cultural & comfort-guilt traps, probably the ONLY way for them to see the truth about Islam, is for an ex-Muslim to speak it.

    And, then, a few weeks afterward, when they have gotten the idea into their concrete-hard skulls that Islam is, indeed, committed to subjugation — by violence if necessary — pass along David Wood’s 3 excellent You Tube posts: “The Jihad Triangle” / “Taqiyya” / “Three Stages of Jihad”.

    • Jack says

      Mar 12, 2016 at 11:28 am

      The majority of Americans haven’t a clue about how dangerous this Fascist Ideology is to their liberties, nor are they aware of the many well financed alphabet Muslim organizations with leaders that know how to court our Traitorous politicians to further their cause. (See what Paul Ryan did concerning Muslim Visas) Go back 15 years, it was then after studying Islam I began warning people about the Muslim agenda, from that time to present day you can see how much they have progressed in this country, they even have a Muslim in the White Mosque (AKA White House) who surrounds himself with fellow Muslims. The vast majority of Americans believe there is only one form of Jihad, Violent Jihad but there are many ways, Stealth Jihad can be done in many ways from donating money to their violent brothers to getting elected into public office like the state of MN’s Congressman Keith Ellison who openly supports Muslims organizations including CAIR and the Muslim Brotherhood and he is just one of many that’s using the Qur’an to take his oath of office. Ellison didn’t use just any old Qur’an nut the copy Thomas Jefferson had made, he said it was because Jefferson respected Islam and was a friend; that is a bold face lie Jefferson wanted a Qur’an translated so he could understand his enemy, America’s enemy better, it had to do with the Muslim pirates, those Jefferson sent to meet Allah, too long to put on here. Knowing this one can imagine Muslim Ellison did this to mock Jefferson and I’m sure he and his Muslim pals get a big laugh that he pulled this off. Just how Damn Dumb are we as a nation to allow this to continue?

      • jihad3tracker says

        Mar 12, 2016 at 11:48 am

        Hello Jack — And thank you for bringing up MONEY AS JIHAD. That is something which is not mentioned enough. Saudi Prince Alwaleed is probably the best known example — because he publicly announced the availability of around $$$$$ 25 BILLION DOLLARS $$$$$ for the advancement of various agendas related to Islam’s growth.

        We can see the effect of that power at the “Jesuit” Georgetown University in Washington — that established a “Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding” based on Alwaleed’s gift. It’s top dog, John Esposito, is well known to Robert here on JW. His mission is to churn out endless bloviation under the disguise of research — and of course, all of it is propaganda swallowed by gullible fools.

        • underbed cat says

          Mar 12, 2016 at 5:26 pm

          No doubt the money found it’s path to the media, internet social connections, schools, hollywood movie makers,marketers,universities,cities, towns, medical establishments,defense contractors, politicians, and many organization to bring influence and the religion of no peace to America, undercover of intent…the details are for the experts.

      • karl anglin says

        Mar 12, 2016 at 9:52 pm

        Also Congressman Andre Carson of Indiana is also a Moslem

  2. Dan says

    Mar 12, 2016 at 10:38 am

    W.W.M.D.?

    Funny.

    A W.M.D. is Weapon of Mass Destruction.

    Does an extra W makes Islam a Worldwide Weapon of Mass Destruction?

    • Angemon says

      Mar 12, 2016 at 11:29 am

      There’s no WWMD (What Would Muhammad Do) in islam, only WDMD (What Did Muhammad Do). Which makes islam a WDMD (Weapon Destined to Mass Destruction).

  3. Michael Copeland says

    Mar 12, 2016 at 10:55 am

    Two useful extracts:
    “…the problem ..is not with the muslims …it is with the teachings of the religion itself.” (2, 1.05)
    “The astonishing thing about ISIS is the amazing correlation between Muhammad and their actions.”
    ( 3, 7.22)
    Hazem Farraj

  4. mortimer says

    Mar 12, 2016 at 10:58 am

    Graeme Wood in March 2015 wrote an excellent reply to this question (‘Is the Islamic State Islamic?’) in The Atlantic magazine. His conclusion was that ISIS is ‘very Islamic’. He backed it up with facts.

    The authenticity of ISIS is evidenced by the university teachers of Caliph al Baghdadi who all witness to him being one of…if not the best student they ever had. He spent literally all of his time reading about Islam. They believed he was better informed about Islam than most professors of Islamic studies, meaning that al Baghdadi is in the top 10% or even top 5% of Islamic scholars alive today.

    Caliph al Baghdadi is one of the most Islamic persons alive. He is the dictator of ISIS. His words are decrees that must be followed and disregarding them is treason punishable by death. He is behaving precisely and perfectly in the manner of the earliest caliphs of Islam.

    • Jay Boo says

      Mar 12, 2016 at 9:43 pm

      There you go again mort

      You were not doing so bad until you once again fell into your willing submission mode to the Muslim mindset with the phrase — “His words are decrees that must be followed ”

      I will bet that you were the kid in class that always ratted out your fellow students to the authority figures in charge.

      While mortimer falsely clamed that I ALWAYS say “I hate Muslims” words that to my recollection I have not ever used not even a single time ZILCH, I can comfortably assert that mortimer flaunts the Muslim point of view of “kafirs, kuffar, ect, at least weekly.

      • mortimer says

        Mar 12, 2016 at 10:19 pm

        you are a fascist.

        • Jay Boo says

          Mar 12, 2016 at 11:09 pm

          You are the clear fascist
          Hands down

          “The Muslim is available to be killed, his property appropriated, his womenfolk and children enslaved.”

        • Jay Boo says

          Mar 12, 2016 at 11:12 pm

          My above comment is not fascism.

          It is plagiarism of — your repeated comment about us.
          I only change one word kafir to Muslim

        • Jay Boo says

          Mar 12, 2016 at 11:14 pm

          You said that yesterday while showing off the Muslim point of view.

        • Champ says

          Mar 12, 2016 at 11:34 pm

          mortimer wrote:

          you are a fascist.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          This is not the sort of response I would expect from someone who 30 minutes ago just rebuked others on another thread …

          mortimer wrote:

          Free speech is helped by courtesy, logic, and pertinence of the comments and harmed by rudeness, fallacious comparisons, and meanderings from the subject under discussion.

          If you do not exhibit any of those positive traits, it is right to correct you. If you have good sense, you will take the suggestions without pique and without vengefulness.

          Political Islam is a difficult, controversial topic. Courtesy is the essence of a civilized, adult discussion. It appears some on this forum are incapable of courtesy.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          I must say, mortimer, your remark to Jay Boo is *not* very courteous, and it’s void of the qualities that you’ve expressed above–tsk, tsk!

        • Jay Boo says

          Mar 12, 2016 at 11:41 pm

          “you are a fascist.”

          Spoken like a koran breathing Muslim admirer who rather than defend his comments does nothing but tosses out an ad hominem attack.

        • Jay Boo says

          Mar 12, 2016 at 11:47 pm

          Thanks Champ

      • gravenimage says

        Mar 12, 2016 at 11:00 pm

        Jay Boo, Mortimer wasn’t saying that he agreed that Caliph al Baghdadi should be obeyed–just that obeying him is enforced in the Islamic State and that this is perfectly Islamic.

        • Jay Boo says

          Mar 13, 2016 at 1:10 am

          gravenimage,
          It seems that mortimer did a (hit and run) name calling of ‘fascist’ then ran away and left others to defend his earlier comments for him.

          I doubt that he will appreciate it though.
          Oh well.

  5. cs says

    Mar 12, 2016 at 12:13 pm

    Very good, not great, but very good, More people could be watching and getting educated.
    Nothing that Robert have not been saying for many years by now.

  6. underbed cat says

    Mar 12, 2016 at 1:23 pm

    I guess if this speaker in the video had not referred to “radical islam” instead of islam, I would finish listening to this video. It really is just the ideology and doctrine that is “radical”, most found in the koran, hadiths , sharia laws, which calls for believers to misdirect the infidels to think they are peaceful, while the core of islam is to create a caliphate using violent jihad. So it is an intrinsic trait to deceive, strike terror into the heart and mind of the nonbeliever, present a peaceful face but have a hard heart, necessary to allow it to grow within the land of their next target.

    Maybe later.

  7. salim says

    Mar 12, 2016 at 5:34 pm

    Coming from an Islamic background, I understand why it can be very hard for Muslims to depart from Islam. It is the extensive brain washing they have been subjected to since their birth.
    What I cannot understand is why it can be so hard for non Muslims to accept our claims about Islam, despite evidence being all around us.

    • mortimer says

      Mar 12, 2016 at 10:23 pm

      Salim, You are right. The answer, in my humble opinion, is that the Left has made an alliance with Islam to remove free speech and create voting blocks that will ensure votes for Leftist parties.

      Have you considered that many Leftist politicians and journalist may have been bribed by the Saudis and other Gulf powers to support Islam?

      • Edward says

        Mar 12, 2016 at 11:20 pm

        The Leftist movement has found the perfect supportive engine of their ideology……radical Islam and visa versa! Here we have two enemies of humanity coupled together on the same track!

      • carmine cicchiello says

        Mar 12, 2016 at 11:29 pm

        It is a spiritual thing…

        the spirit that drives Islam is the same spirit that drives the secular/humanist/leftist mind. The enemy is working on multiple fronts:

        2nd Corinthians 11:14, Galatians 1:8, Ephesians 6:11-13, Colossians 2:8, 1st Timothy 4:1

        • Edward says

          Mar 13, 2016 at 1:55 am

          It is a spiritual thing”…well put!

          Ditto on the scriptures: 2nd Corinthians 11:14, Galatians 1:8, Ephesians 6:11-13, Colossians 2:8, 1st Timothy 4:1

          I swapped a lethal weapon that I wore in the mid nineties for Ephesians 10-18 and I never had to look over my shoulders thereafter!

          And Psalm 91 Psalm 91- “Full Trust in God”
          1 Whoever dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty.
          2 I will say of the Lord, “He is my refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust.”

          Adding that extra affirmation of an antidote-al deterrent; by which it is written in Psalm’s 9:16 “With long life I will satisfy him and show him my salvation.” (next month I’ll turn 81)

      • Ian McBryde says

        Mar 13, 2016 at 5:06 am

        An IQ above room temp tells you that IS is islamic. I wonder about the IQ of Obumma & hismates; may be -ve.

      • underbed cat says

        Mar 13, 2016 at 11:29 am

        The bribery with cash only works after extensive misdirection, that the ideology is peaceful, as long as the recipient is not aware of the “other” meaning to peaceful words, that the harsh words mean what they say and it is the duty to misdirect and keep hidden the agenda and directives to conquer the mind. So getting the accurate facts from the experts is the first problem that was necessary to condemn by leaders of the no so peaceful religion, which if truly defined would not be called so, sort of like a shampoo that says it is a conditioner also, so what is it really when they are blended together.

    • linnte says

      Mar 14, 2016 at 12:44 pm

      Salim, non Muslims who don’t believe Muslims who have left Islam are correct is because they have not taken the time to read the words of Muhammad. Laziness! They believe their Muslim “friends” whom assure them that Islam is wonderful, and that those who disagree are simply haters. I refused to believe that Islam was subverse and violent. It is what made me get a Qur’an and read it! Oh man, was I ever shocked into action! It is right there in black and white – the goal of Islam. It still amazes me that a religion such as Islam can “get away” with fooling BILLIONS of people!

  8. Edgar Allen says

    Mar 12, 2016 at 6:01 pm

    I’ve made a list titled “Is ISIS Islamic?”, with many references, from the words of Muslims and ex-Muslims. Please add/subtract to it, and copy/paste and share on social media, in comments to YouTube videos, and in answers to idiotic news articles. Let’s make this viral

    1. More than 81% of Al Jazeera readers approve of ISIS.
    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/05/81-of-respondents-to-al-jazeera-poll-support-the-islamic-state

    2. 9% of TOTAL U.K. population (not 9% of Muslims) have Favorable view of ISIS.
    UK Muslim population estimated at 6-8%.
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/muslim-leader-isis-supporting-brits-disenfranchised-6018357

    3. 16% of TOTAL French population (not 16% of Muslims) Favor ISIS. Frances’ Muslim poulation is estimated at 15%.

    http://www.newsweek.com/16-french-citizens-support-isis-poll-finds-266795

    4. Al Azhar University, the most prestigious Sunni Islamic Center, refuses to call ISIS non-Islamic. (If they did, they would automatically point fingers at Muhammad and his companions, Al Sahaba, since they all did the same atrocities.)

    http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/02/azhar-egypt-radicals-islamic-state-apostates.html#

    5. Muslim researchers agree ISIS is “product of Islamic heritage” video
    http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/4821.htm

    6. Muslim politician “ISIS is Islam”. video

    http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/4471.htm

    7. Egyptian TV Host Ibrahim Issa: Nobody Dares to Admit That ISIS Crimes Are Based on Islamic Sources. video

    http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/4773.htm

    8. Muslim journalist Nadim Koteich: “We ARE ALL ISIS.” “ THESE KILLERS ARE US.” “ The ISIS Murderers Belong To Islam, Rely On Islam’s Texts.”
    Lebanese Journalists Call To Recognize Connection Between Terrorism And Islam

    https://now.mmedia.me/lb/en/commentary/564668-we-are-all-isis

    9. Moderate Jordan Minister says: Jordanians “will join Islamic State because they learned in school that this is Islam”. “’Islamic State ideology is there, in our textbooks,’ said Zogan Obiedat, a former Education Ministry official who published a recent analysis of the texts.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/08/jordanians-will-join-islamic-state-because-they-learned-in-school-that-this-is-islam

    10. Jordanian Politician: “There is No such thing as ISIS Ideology. It is Islam.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6UkPBm3l70

    11. Brooklyn Imam. “We must admit. We the Muslims, are time-bombs. Majority of Muslims hate Christians. You have to admit that deep rooted hatred dwells in the hearts of Muslims.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp1r2NHgVt8&list=PLxDcRie6KGugIZz3mKj2DNYix9Ckp8C0g&index=13

    12. Saudi Author: “Ideology of MOST clerics is ISIS-like”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whCxUCpO798

    13. Egyptian Activist Ahmad Harqan: “ISIS Is Doing What Prophet Muhammad Did”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w66Ist_G5To

    14. German Muslim Activist : “ As a simple Muslim , Why I support ISIS.”
    ISIS are in the right, I say, because they rule by the Sharia of our Lord.”

    http://www.memri.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/5290.htm

    15. 92% of Saudi’s believe that ‘Islamic State conforms to the values of Islam and Islamic law’ . Aug, 2014.
    https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2014/08/24/92-of-saudis-believes-that-isis-conforms-to-the-values-of-islam-and-islamic-law-survey/

    16. “Egyptian political analyst: All Islamic groups and members support the Islamic State.”

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/12/egyptian-political-analyst-all-islamic-groups-and-members-support-islamic-state

  9. gravenimage says

    Mar 12, 2016 at 11:02 pm

    Video: Ex-Muslim uses Qur’an and Sunnah to answer question: Is the Islamic State Islamic?
    …………………….

    Excellent stuff. I was not aware of the work of brave apostate Hazem Farraj.

  10. eduardo odraude says

    Mar 13, 2016 at 4:07 am

    Is ISIS Islamic? See the links on the right side of this website: http://www.quotingislam.blogspot.com

    The links quote a university database of core Islamic texts showing very clearly that Muhammad’s actions were ISIS-like.

    • Herman says

      Mar 13, 2016 at 11:33 am

      Or actually the other way around: islamic state is doing exactly what mohamed did – or indeed following mohamed, their example!!

  11. allahu snackbar says

    Mar 13, 2016 at 7:52 am

    The Masked Arab is also great.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9JU55HpvRvCSb1TO2w_eDA/videos

  12. blitz2b says

    Mar 13, 2016 at 11:06 am

    Excellent video series Hazem, and thanks Robert for bringing it to us.

    Is there any way of sending these videos to Donald Trump? He is the only one in the race for the presidency with courage to speak the truth about Islam, however with little or nothing in terms of substance to back his claims.

    What better opportunity than the one he has opened up himself, to expose the true face of Islam. However people want to hear more than just rhetoric.

    I wish he used the wisdom of Dr. Ben Carson on what to say about Islam than simply saying ” Islam has a tremendous hatred for us…”

    Time is running out so we all need to do something to educate our clueless leaders about the dangers of this abhorrent ideology.

    So let’s get to work…

  13. Herman says

    Mar 13, 2016 at 11:37 am

    “most of mozlims like to please their god”
    The adagio of there are so many peaceful mozlims.. right??
    mmmm….
    so I have to trust someone whose belief system includes my killing?
    whose belief system includes beating and raping of women inside and outside wedlock?
    whose belief system include paedophilia?

    When Muslims Betray Non-Muslim Friends and Neighbors:
    http://www.christianpost.com/news/when-muslims-betray-non-muslim-friends-and-neighbors-141389/

    Children From Christian Family Murdered By Their Longtime Muslim Friends And Neighbors:
    https://endtimestrumpet.wordpress.com/2015/10/14/children-from-christian-family-murdered-by-their-longtime-muslim-friends-and-neighbors/

  14. Lanya LaPunta says

    Mar 13, 2016 at 1:13 pm

    I guess that I’m just not that “classy”. I know of not one single mohammedan that I find warm, compassionate, friendly, honest, or anything even resembling those traits.

  15. Leon says

    Mar 13, 2016 at 1:30 pm

    This is nuts. No common sense here. Pure lust and illogical power grabs following Islamic doctrine.

  16. Dacritic says

    Mar 14, 2016 at 11:11 am

    Excellent work, Hazem. However, there is a detail I would like to point out. Like James White, you said Muhammad met with resistance in Mecca because he was preaching monotheism and the Meccans were deeply polytheistic. If you do not explain this in further detail, there is a chance your listeners might take you (and Dr White) to imply that the Meccans were persecuting Muhammad simply for preaching Islam and the belief in Allah. Not so.

    “When the apostle openly displayed Islam as Allah ordered him, his people did not withdraw or turn against him, so far as I have heard, until he spoke disparagingly of their gods. When he did that, they took great offence and resolved unanimously to treat him as an enemy.” (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 167) We in multi-cultural Malaysia are doing better in this department generally. Much better.

    “[Muhammad] declared Islam publicly to his fellow tribesmen. When he did so, they did not withdraw from him or reject him in any way, as far as I have heard, until he spoke of their gods and denounced them.” (al-Tabari Vol.VI, p.93)

    “The Meccans] said they had never known anything like the trouble they had endured from this fellow. He had declared their mode of life foolish, insulted their forefathers, reviled their religion, divided the community and cursed their gods.” (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 183).

    “We [the Meccans] have never seen the like of what we have endured from this man[Muhammad]. He has derided our traditional values, abused our forefathers, reviled our religion, caused division among us, and insulted our gods. We have endured a great deal from him.” (al-Tabari, Vol.VI p.101)

    “They decided to send for Muhammad and to negotiate and argue with him… When he came and sat down with them, they explained that that they had sent for him in order that they could talk together. No Arab had ever treated his tribe as Muhammad had treated them, and they repeated the charges… If it was money he wanted, they would make him the richest of them all; if it was honor, he should be their prince; if it was sovereignty, they would make him king.” (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 188).

    So according to the biographies, which you so rightly advised us to look at, Muhammad was the one who was asking for trouble. As you said, the Meccans were polytheistic. If Muhammad wanted to bring one more religion, even if his religion tells its adherents to worship only one god (who also happen to be in the already existing Kaabah), they were fine with it. Telling people to worship only your god is fine. But telling people to worship your god by doing what Muhammad did is not fine.

  17. linnte says

    Mar 14, 2016 at 12:47 pm

    There are more videos to complete this series. Does anyone know where they are?

  18. knightsstrength says

    May 29, 2016 at 7:24 pm

    We just focus on Islam, but we overlook a parallel with Islam that we have a tunnel view and do not look inside the picture.

    First look at when Quran carbon dated. Said to be during or before Muhammad.
    Muhammad did not have his first revelations till he was 40. How long was he to have these revelations to memory. Could not read or write. Died at age of 63.
    Would have taken awhile to have his revelations, thrown out of Mecca, then to form an army. So his actual rule may have been about 20 years or less.
    What was Muhammad raised as Christian, Jewish or other. Islam non existent, then those who raised him
    Waraka ibn Nawfal
    Khadijah bint Khuwaylid
    There are a couple stories to Muhammad’s upbringing, but one must look at those around him
    Khadijah, Waraka, both lots to do with him and also giving Muhammad authority. Waraka, said to be Christian was able to transcribe the Bible, yet did not or did he write parts of the Quran, before or during his lifetime.
    One important person in history and so vague, where we can go back and look thousands of years.

    Now the power gain was the battle between Orthodox and Papacy. Far as I read the Power shift began back in roughly 300AD with more power given to Pope’s. You had Constantine that declared the Roman Empire Christian. To me he became Christian in his vision and having his army wear the Chi-Rho. The Pope’s may have converted him to a Catholic on his death bed.

    To me Papacy did deals with Khadijah, Waraka to form Islam. And for these two to convert from one form of Christianity to following Muhammad. There were many doctrines of Christianity, Jewish and so on
    Khadijah, went onto marrying Muhammad,much older than Muhammad. Smart businesswoman

    Next phase was the document of “Constantine Donation” created by Pope after death of Constantine, basically giving absolute power to Vatican, property, lands, next to God. Held in Vatican and denied, yet we can see it just in forgiving sins. Christ died for our sins for those that come to Christ, not by Popes, Priest.

    Two killing forces through history has mainly been Islam and Papacy, killing Orthodox Christians and those that broke away including Presbyterians etc, Jews, etc We only think of the Spanish Inquisition but been done for over a 1000 years.

    The deal between Papacy and Islam sort of backfired or did it.

    Just looking at last century
    You had the Austrian Bosnian Muslim army in Bosnia, Austria_Hungary was basically Catholic and were fighting with Serbian Orthodox Christians, Serbian war 1912, Annexing of Bosnia from Serbia. Besides the Young Bosnians under Black Hand that killed the Serbian King. Was the leader of Black Hand really working for the Vatican. Germany had good ties with the Ottoman Empire, Russia was hated, backing Serbia and Armenians.

    WW2 We had
    Catholic Relations, Ustase hardly gets a mention than Nazism, but were the new Bosnian Muslim army that still existed to the Serbian/Bosnian war 1992-1995. The Serbian massacre 1991 never gets mention.

    Franco, who went out to kill all non Catholics, even those Catholics that did not attend Mass regularly. The Muslims rode with Franco so not killed.

    The biggest thing overlooked is who funded Hitler’s rise, the Russian revelution, Austria-Hungary and you will find big corporates, and big names. Who organised them and again the finances of Vatican owns huge shares in banks, corporations etc

    Start digging for information, even Ratlines, Operation Paperclip, Kissinger’s Spies. Operation Paperclip allowed Nazis, Ustase, Muslims to enter the West with new identities in thousands. The spur rings were hand in hand working for both the West and East.

    Ten we have the EU and UK always backing the Muslims.

    One should ask why were the heads of the corporations that funded Hitler not arrested, jailed, than a few dollars in fines while many millions died.

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