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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

William Kilpatrick: Was Muhammad a False Prophet?

Mar 9, 2016 10:08 am By Ralph Sidway

A question few dare to ask today, but one that sheds a great deal of light on important contemporary issues. “Was Muhammad a False Prophet?,” by William Kilpatrick, Crisis Magazine, February 17, 2016:

Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves (Mt. 7:15).

Would “false prophets” include Muhammad? It’s an impolitic question to ask in these politically correct times, but, thanks to political correctness these are also highly dangerous times. Since a good deal of the danger emanates from the religion Muhammad founded, it seems reasonable to ask if he was a false prophet. And if he was, does that mean that Islam is a false religion?  And if it is, why are Catholic leaders so keen on declaring their solidarity with Islam?

It’s a case of either/or. Either the New Testament account of Jesus is true or Muhammad’s account is true. Since they contradict each other, they both can’t be true.

In the gospel accounts, Jesus is rather insistent that he is the Son of God, and the Koran is rather insistent that he is not. Assuming that you know of the many instances in the gospels where Jesus asserts his divinity, here are some Koranic passages that say the opposite:

God is but one God. God forbid that he should have a son! (4: 173, trans Dawood).

The Messiah, the Son of Mary, was no more than an apostle (5:75, Dawood).

Christians call Christ the Son of Allah…. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the truth! (9:30, trans Yusuf Ali).

They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of the three in a Trinity (5:73, Yusuf Ali).

Ralph Sidway, the author of a recent piece on the “same God” question, puts the either/or nature of the choice in perspective:

Based on these brief examples alone, Christianity and Islam cannot both be from the same source which is what the Same God Question ultimately boils down to. If we treat each truth claim with respect, that each faith springs from a self-revelation of God, then it is clear the Allah of Islam is directly, and in a specific, vigorous manner, opposed to the revelation from the Christian God. And Jesus’ own emphatic testimony about himself excludes any alternate revelation concerning the nature of God.

So the author of the Koran unambiguously rejects the Christian belief in the Trinity. Moreover, he declares that a “grievous penalty will befall” those who persist in saying that “Allah is one of three” (5: 73). As Sidway puts it, “Allah is so vehement in these condemnations of Christian dogma that it amounts to what I term a ‘Theological Jihad’.”

Why the vehemence? I have my own theory about that. As I wrote a few years back:

Muhammad’s purpose in introducing Jesus into the Koran is to discredit the Christian claim that he is divine in order to enhance Muhammad’s claim to prophethood.

In other words:

If Christ is who Christians say he is, then there is absolutely no need for another prophet or another revelation.

So Muhammad created his own version of Jesus—one in which Jesus is cut down to size. In effect, Jesus is assigned the role of John the Baptist: he must decrease so that Muhammad can increase. In the Koran, Jesus is given a relatively minor role to play. He is occasionally brought on stage to make a point, and then is promptly ushered off. Muhammad succeeds in convincing his audience that this lackluster Jesus couldn’t possibly be God. The trouble is, his Jesus is so poorly drawn, so lacking in substance and individuality that it’s also difficult to believe in his humanity. He is more like a disembodied voice than a person.

But, whatever Muhammad’s motivation, the fact is that the Jesus of the gospels and the Jesus of the Koran are irreconcilable. How can both revelations possibly be from the same God? If Christ is God, then the Koranic account is a false account and Muhammad is a false prophet.

That may seem a harsh way to put it. And if you go around saying such things, you likely won’t be invited to your parish’s next interfaith outreach program. But there it is. The only alternative is to say that Muhammad is a true prophet. Do you really want to go there?

Well, I suppose one could conjure up another alternative. One could say that Muhammad was a so-so prophet: he got some things right and some things wrong, and he was part of the Abrahamic faith tradition, and so on and so forth. It’s true, of course, that Muhammad did get some things right. But, on the point of Christ’s divinity, the New Testament doesn’t seem to allow for any half-right/half-wrong compromise position.

Is the Allah who supposedly wrote the Koran the same God who revealed himself in the Incarnation? Sidway reminds us of two passages from the First Letter of John:

Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also (1 Jn 2:22-23).

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world (1 Jn 4:1-3).

According to John, the spirit of the Antichrist denies the Son. But Islam not only denies the Son, it brands belief in the Son as a sin. And not just any sin, but the worst of all possible sins—shirk (the sin of attributing partners to God). So the central belief of Christians is, from the Islamic point of view, the greatest sin conceivable.

It can be argued that other religions fail to acknowledge the Sonship of Christ, but there is a difference. For example, while Jews don’t believe in the divinity of Christ, that, for obvious chronological reasons, is not part of the revelation to the Jews. Nor is denial of Christ’s divinity a central tenet of Judaism. On the other hand, the “revelation” to Muhammad came six hundred years after the birth of Christ and one of its central messages is the denial of the Sonship of Jesus. As Joel Richardson puts it in his book The Islamic Antichrist:

While many religions and systems of belief exist that do not agree with the doctrines of Christianity … only Islam fulfills the role of a religion that exists to deny core Christian beliefs.

It’s difficult to square the scriptural evidence with the currently fashionable notion that Christianity and Islam are close cousins. It’s harder still to reconcile it with the assertion that we believe in the same God and revere the same Jesus.

But is it really necessary to open old wounds? Isn’t it better to emphasize the things that unite us rather than the things that divide us? In commenting on the Church’s relationship with Muslims in Nostra Aetate, the Synod fathers urged all to forget the “quarrels and hostilities” of the past. Shouldn’t we heed their advice?

But just how far in the past are the “quarrels and hostilities” mentioned in Nostra Aetate? They are still with us today. And what is the source of those hostilities, except that Christians refused and still refuse to accept the revelations given to Muhammad. From the Islamic point of view, Christians who persist in unbelief merit the “grievous penalty” that follows.

“Beware of false prophets who … inwardly are ravenous wolves.” “Ravenous” certainly seems an apt description of Muhammad. While it’s not know exactly how many people he killed in the course of spreading Islam, it is known that on one occasion he presided over the beheading of between 600 and 900 captured men. “Ravenous” also seems to fit most of his successors. Islam’s’ 1400 year history is largely a record of conquest and subjugation. By one estimate, approximately 170 million people have been killed in the name of Allah, making Islam the greatest killing force in history by far.

So there is good reason to beware of false prophets. There is also good reason for Catholics to revisit the simplistic and dangerously misleading notion that Muslims and Christians share the same beliefs and values.

It’s understandable, of course, that many Catholics might think that Christianity and Islam are more closely aligned than they really are. It’s uncontestable that Islam does bear a superficial resemblance to Catholicism. Muslims pray daily, they emphasize modesty, their clerics wear long robes, they go on pilgrimage to shrines, and their mosques are often beautiful structures which convey an atmosphere of deep spirituality. Moreover, Islam even finds room for Jesus in its pantheon of prophets.

None of that, however, negates the reality that Islam is based on a false revelation. When warning of false prophets, Christ said “you will know them by their fruits”—not by their appearances. After all, the warning would not be necessary except that the wolf is disguised in sheep’s clothing. Unfortunately, too many Catholics and too many of their shepherds seem to live in a bucolic dream world where thoughts of wolves and false prophets are never entertained.

_____

William Kilpatrick taught for many years at Boston College. He is the author of several books about cultural and religious issues, including Psychological Seduction; Why Johnny Can’t Tell Right From Wrong; and Christianity, Islam and Atheism: The Struggle for the Soul of the West. His articles have appeared in numerous publications, including Catholic World Report, National Catholic Register, Aleteia, Saint Austin Review, Investor’s Business Daily, and First Things. His work is supported in part by the Shillman Foundation. For more on his work and writings, visit his website, turningpointproject.com

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Filed Under: Islamic supremacism, Muhammad, Qur'an Tagged With: Allah, Bible, ecumenism, New Testament, Same God, theology


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Comments

  1. Muhammad Bear says

    Mar 9, 2016 at 10:12 am

    Yes.

    • DrAki says

      Mar 9, 2016 at 3:58 pm

      This was a great thoughtful article. Muhammad was clearly trying to reduce Jesus while promoting himself and his false religion.

    • Champ says

      Mar 9, 2016 at 4:29 pm

      Ditto.

  2. Angemon says

    Mar 9, 2016 at 10:42 am

    Was Muhammad a False Prophet?

    Short answer: No.
    Long answer: Outside islamic “literature” there’s no evidence muhammad existed, so he couldn’t have been a prophet, false or not.

    • R says

      Mar 9, 2016 at 2:30 pm

      I agree. I don’t believe he existed either.

      • Mark Swan says

        Mar 9, 2016 at 3:38 pm

        For a Guy who Did Not exist…He sure stirred things up.

        • Mark Swan says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 10:21 pm

          Reply To: Both

          Champ says
          March 9, 2016 at 4:45 pm

          and

          Western Canadian says
          March 9, 2016 at 7:57 pm

          Thanks for the Heads-Up on WC.
          He brings a whole new meaning to the word reality.

    • Rev g says

      Mar 9, 2016 at 5:39 pm

      Mo’s murderous, raping, sinful ways disqualify him as a prophet of God. This is not to deny he may still be a prophet, albeit of some other, darker, pseudo-deity.

      • Michael Copeland says

        Mar 9, 2016 at 7:43 pm

        “The strongholds of Islam will be knocked down, one after the other, and then there will come many deceiving guides. Faith will crawl back to the Madina like a snake crawls back to its hole.”
        Mohammed
        http://www.answering-islam.org/Mna/frag1.1.html

    • Demsci says

      Mar 9, 2016 at 7:56 pm

      I agree to an extent. I of course depend on Robert’s fascinating book; “Did Muhammad Exist?”. And Tom Hollands book about early Islam. One can also watch “Real Crusade History” for knowledge.

      There may have been a vague rolemodel. But the historical evidence for “the Muhammed portrayed by Muslims” is very scant and contradictory and THAT man certainly did NOT exist. They don’t have evidence of a grave of him either. The origine of the Quran are also vague.

      Countless Hadiths, the Sira-autobiography, and even the Quran itself may be conjured up much much later than 632 AD, the supposed year of Muhammad’s death. It may be the case that it was only after the Arab conquests that the religion of Islam took shape! Only after about 691 AD evidence of Islam as we know it is emerging I read.

      The real reason of the success of the Arabs seems to have been a fatal weakening of the Byzantines and the Persians who nearly annihilated each other just prior to the Arab outburst, in 602-628. Both empires also were unable to pay their respective Arab allies at that time, so they did have a reason to go to war.

      And it is also relevant that in the 6th century there was a catastrophe by impact of a meteor or so, somewhere in East Africa, which caused great plaques in the Byzantine empire and elsewhere, but less so in Arabia.

      Just prior to the Arab outburst the civilized world was at it’s weakest and the world changed forever when the Arabs (among other people, such as the Avars in Europe and the Saxons in Britain, where Arthur had beaten them back at first) took advantage of it. Or so I read.

      And recently, by Dan Gibson, clues were discovered that even Mecca was not in existence, or in existence in any big state, until the 9th century! Clues point to PETRA, in Jordan, as the place of Origine of Muhammad and the Quran!!!

      Gibson shows that the earliest known mosques point to PETRA, not MECCA. This is about the Qibla, the principle that Muslims must pray, in the direction of Mecca. Petra is a much more logical place for A Muhammed to have lived, because it is a much more logical place for a trade-hub in the 7th century.

    • Mark Swan says

      Mar 10, 2016 at 12:33 am

      gravenimage…I see it too.

      • gravenimage says

        Mar 10, 2016 at 3:46 pm

        I think it’s been fixed now, Mark.

    • Sandra Lee Smith says

      Mar 10, 2016 at 8:34 pm

      There’s not even evidence Mecca existed as a trade route hub, until long after Muhammad’s supposed existence!

  3. Tim says

    Mar 9, 2016 at 10:42 am

    This is who Islam spread from Arabia to other countries by force in other words most of today’s Muslims in particular North Africa surrended to Islam out of fear of being killed.

    • Adam says

      Mar 9, 2016 at 10:45 am

      So did other tribes in Saudi Arabia had to surrender to Islam or else they will be killed or persecuted during Mohammed’s time in Saudi Arabia.

  4. Tim says

    Mar 9, 2016 at 10:52 am

    As Arabia is a tribal nation Mohammed did most of the killings in Saudi Arabia to members of other tribes who opposed him and due to Mohammed’s tribe winning against those who oppose him all remaining tribes in Saudi Arabia converted to Islam out of fear of being killed.

  5. celticwarriorcanada says

    Mar 9, 2016 at 11:03 am

    I Really Appreciate This Excellent Article By Ralph Sidway ! He really Exposes the Difference Between Christianity and Islam , and the Folly of those who Imagine that Interfaith Dialogue can take place on the basis of Similarities. How can you Dialogue with , and Join hands with People who are convinced that it is their God Given Duty to punish you because of your theology ? Genuine Catholic Christianity and Islam are not Compatible and Chrislam is a Myth ! I’m really interested in checking out some of Ralphs other books !!!

    • celticwarriorcanada says

      Mar 9, 2016 at 11:50 am

      Correction William KilPatricks Books ! P.S. Did a Night Shift last Night , I haven’t been to Sleep Yet !

  6. worldcitizen1919 says

    Mar 9, 2016 at 11:09 am

    Muhammad fought and established freedom of worship which is now the cornerstone of all democracies. He taught there is one God and over 1.5 billion people believe in Jesus because one cannot be a Muslim unless they accept Jesus and all the other Prophets as well.

    Muhammad is the most misunderstood figure in the history of humanity especially in the west where accurate information has not been told only stories about terrorism but 1.6 peaceful Muslims attest to Islam as being a peaceful religion.

    Also He formed the Ummah or nation state concept before countries like America had been discovered.

    He united the barbaric tribes of Arabia. He taught self defense which is another cornerstone of all nations.

    The Golden Age of Islam brought advances in mathematics, sciences, physics, chemistry, arts, astronomy, medicine, algebra and the first universities in the world were founded by Islam and the first university in the world to award degrees was an Islamic university that still exists.

    Christ taught love they neighbour, Muhammad taught love thy country.

    • ECAW says

      Mar 9, 2016 at 12:19 pm

      You’ve surpassed yourself this time WC.

      Mo didn’t establish freedom of worship, just the opposite as must be obvious.

      Mohammed didn’t teach love thy country. He taught fear Allah and hatred non-Muslims.

      So disappointing…

      • worldcitizen1919 says

        Mar 9, 2016 at 1:15 pm

        Muhammad taught the oneness of God. That’s why the Meccans persecuted Him because that was a threat to their economy which was based upon people coming and paying tribute to their 360 gods. The more converts Muhammad gained the more the Meccans became hostile until after 13 years He fled to Medina to avoid genocide.

        Yes it’s true that although freedom of worship is accepted all over the world but in some Muslim countries it is not enforced enough. Recently however, Indonesia, the largest Muslim nation in the world accepted the Bahai Faith as an official religion of Indonesia.

        When Medina accepted Him He returned and fought those who had persecuted Him until freedom of worship was established. He fought for the right of freedom of belief and He won.

        Muhammad established the first ‘Ummah’ a community or nation with laws even before the United States of America and other countries were even discovered. The nation state was an idea that came from Muhammad and used by the world as a basis for nation building.

        Give credit where it’s due. The nation state founded by Muhammad was an idea taken from many countries to form their own nations.

        He did teach to love one’s country.

        • Western Canadian says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 8:10 pm

          He only taught hatred of anything other than his own vile and criminal self. You really do never get tired of lying through your teeth, do you? So, have you graduated from lying about islam to killing for islam yet, or do you think lying about the killing of others is enough?

        • Western Canadian says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 8:57 pm

          Every single word, a lie told by a devout muslim. And their boot-lickers.

        • Carolyne says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 9:36 am

          Worldcitizen, Do you know nothing of the Greek and Roman city-states? They existed long before Mohammed (If he existed at all and Pigs be upon him.) Do you know nothing of Hammurabi who was the sixth king of Babylon who enacted a code of 282 laws around 1746 BC, a large part of the stele on which it was written exists today? That predated the so called Islamic Prophet (Piss be upon him) by more than 1000 tears, Mohammed was a Johnny-come-lately, a copycat, if he existed at all, about which there is great doubt.

          I do not believe that there is a “God” who impregnated a human female and she produced a son. I believe a man called “Jesus” existed because the historian Josephus mentioned such a person, but as to the rest…..well, I stopped believing in that long ago.I find it outrageous.

          And for Muslims,, Christians and Jews who believe in the Garden of Eden and Adam and Eve, who did their children marry? No one else existed according to the bible, so they must have mated with siblings, assuming Adam and Eve had other children besides Cain and Abel, one of whom met an early demise. I know one of them went off to the land of “Nod” where he married, but how can that be, since there were no other humans? The bible tells us so.

          I do not wish to try to sway anyone away from their religion, except possibly Muslims, who are a danger to the continued existence of the world. But don’t do things like pray over me that I might “See the light” as I believe I already have.

          It is not a good idea to look at any religion too closely. I did and after pondering these questions among many others, and realizing they depend on myths, I became an Atheist/

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 10:23 am

          To me I don’t see a person as a Jew or Christian or aetheist. I see you as a beautiful part of humanity. Part of my world family.

          You can be whoever you want and still be my fellow human being.

        • Western Canadian says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 12:33 pm

          Yes, someone can lie about Christ, murder children in the name of allah, and they are most definitely friends of yours.

    • john spielman says

      Mar 9, 2016 at 12:24 pm

      RUBBISH! the qur’an and hadiths of muhammed pbuh* deny the deity of JESUS as recorded accurately in the Bible and written 600 years before your false prophet was born. Both words of Jesus and the testimony of His disciples (later apostles) and Paul the apostle all validate that Jesus was before the beginning and was with the Father and was responsible for the creation of the universe and in Him, Jesus, all things hold together. muhammed was only a wicked narcissistic demon possessed mass murderer thief liar misogynist and pedophile pervert false prophet as per the Bible’s standard.
      pbuh*= PERPETUAL BANISHMENT UNTO HELL!

      • worldcitizen1919 says

        Mar 9, 2016 at 1:04 pm

        “References in the Bible to ‘Mt. Paran’ and ‘Paraclete’ refer to Muhammad’s Revelation: Deuteronomy

        33:2, Genesis 21:21, Numbers 12:16, Numbers 13:3. Genesis 17:20 refers to the twelve Imáms and in the Revelation of St. John, chapter 11, where it mentions two witnesses, it refers to Mu a ḥ mmad and ‘Alí.”

        Excerpt From: Hornby. “Lights of Guidance.”

        • ecosse1314 says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 3:03 pm

          Even you WC must be aware that you have to severely distort the Greek language to make paraclete be a reference the paedophile mo.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 3:21 pm

          It was deliberately removed from the Bible and replaced with Comforter to try and show that Muhammad was false yet His name was actually mentioned in the Bible.

          They changed the entire meaning of the passage. Instead of meaning Person to come after Christ to the Holy Ghost as Comforter.

          But Strong’s defines Paran as a desert in Arabia with ‘caves’ The truth can’t be hidden forever.

        • linnte says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 6:35 pm

          Now you are stretching it WC! Allah protects his word, the Qur’an, correct? Why wouldn’t he protect the Talmud? If the Old Testament is invalid, then the verses Muhammad uses from it are invalid also. Actually Muhammad tells some followers that if they have a question for Jews, to go to the Jews for the answer, and the same with Christians. You should be ashamed! Putting Allah in a box and saying He will not protect his word and allow it to be changed is a great sin. Gods word is the same per scholars everywhere. Unlike your Muhammad getting his book through the angel Gabriel, Moses got his DIRECTLY FROM GOD. And you think all that he said to Moses while on that Mount for 40 days was just the 10 commandments? There are many many original copies of early Scrolls that were meticulously copied by men and read and reread to assure for perfection. I know what you really want WC, you want to become a Christian because you are starved for love!

        • linnte says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 6:48 pm

          And you know that square building every Muslim hopes to migrate to and worship at? It was built by Pagans! Not Muslims. There used to be 360 Pagan Idols surrounding that stone building, but Muhammad of course, destroyed them. So NOW YOU GUYS PRAY TOWARD A PAGAN edifice! Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 7:55 pm

          We do not pray to Mecca. We are not Muslims but Baha’is.

          The Baha’i Faith has its Holy Places and Shrines in Israel so when we pray we face Israel.

          We believe that the time has come for world peace and reconciliation and work for the brotherhood of man.

          http://www.bahai.org/beliefs/essential-relationships/one-human-family/

        • john spielman says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 3:30 pm

          BS! Jesus confirmed that Moses wrote about Him(Jesus) not muhammed John5:46 in regards to Deut 18:15
          the Paraclete is the Holy Spirit

        • john spielman says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 3:34 pm

          also the antichrist and the beast of Revelation fit very well with the madi concept of shia islam and the false prophet being like Jesus of islam

        • Mark Swan says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 3:49 pm

          worldcitizen1919 says
          March 9, 2016 at 1:04 pm

          Show Us In The Christian Bible Where These References Are….Please.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 7:45 pm

          You have the verses I quoted just look them up in the Bible or online.

          According to Strong’s Paran is a desert in Arabia ‘with caves’. It was a cave where Muhammad received His Revelation.

        • Champ says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 6:44 pm

          How do you know if “worldcitizen” is LYING? His fingers are moving!

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 7:50 pm

          I’m only sincerely passing onto you guys what Baha’is understand about Muhammad.

          We don’t only believe in Muhammad we accept all the religions as from God so Buddha Krishna also are a part of our beliefs.

          And our belief is based on the oneness of the human family and world peace and world reconciliation & universal brotherhood.

          We have our own Manifestation of God with our own laws and Holy Book. We are a non violent religion.

        • Western Canadian says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 8:45 pm

          You come and ever word you offer up, every single word, are merely lies. Anyone who lies about a vicious and hate filled cult like islam, cannot claim to be nonviolent. The world would be facing the truth about islam, a threat to the survival of all of humanity, if it were not for bought and paid for liars, like you.

        • Western Canadian says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 9:05 pm

          How about a little contest: We all select one or two of what we personally hold as the most asinine, dishonest, utterly stupid and offensive of the wackycitizens many, many such offerings, establish a list, and vote for which one is the most pathetic and offensive? Granted, it would be hard work, but some of his comments are so incredibly pathetic, they are ALMOST funny!! eg. Mad mo being mentioned in the Bible!!

          It could be an excellent learning tool, listing as it will so many of the lies devout muslims tell their intended victims.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 9:34 pm

          It’s true. Both Jesus and Moses foretold Muhammad in the Holy Bible.

        • Kepha says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 5:53 am

          It is utter nonsense oin stilts to see the Paraclete as Muhammad. Read the Gospel of John, in which the promise of the Paraclete occurs, and you will ind that he is the Holy Spirit, not some following human figure. That Jesus Christ would pour out the Holy Spirit of God on men is one of the major themes of the Gospel, from John the Baptist’s witness (Jn. 1:33), through Jesus’ assertion to the Samaritan woman that the time would come when the true worshipers would worship neither on Gerizim nor at Jerusalem, but “in Spirit and truth” (Jn. 4:23), and ends up with the risen Jesus bestowing the Spirit on his disciples by breathing on them (Jn.20:22). Further, look at the Upper Room Discourse in John, and you see that the Holy Spirit (Paraclete) testifies to Jesus himself, not to some screechings of a disordered Arabian merchant. Read Acts and see the outworking of Jesus’ promise. Note in I Corinthians 1 that confession of Jesus as Lord is what the Holy Spirit brings forth in people.

          These are reasons why Christians cannot but see Muhammad as a false prophet.

          Yes, Jesus as Messiah was foretold in the Old Testament, in the sacrificial system of the Old Testament, in the Messianic Psalms, in Isaiah 53. Muhammad is foreseen as one of the many false prophets who go out in Jesus’ warning to his disciples in the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24 and 25).

          You need to carefully read the whole Bible without any guidance from Shoghi Effendi or Baha’ullah. If you must have some sort of “guide”, I reccomend either the Westminster Shorter Catechism or the Heidelberg Catechism. But read the Bible.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 9:56 am

          It’s nice to hear your views. We have a different understanding but the important thing to us is to try and make a better world for our youth and children by teaching them a virtuous life and to love all humanity regardless of race, nationality and religion.

          This is our goal to spiritually revive humanity and bring love, hope and joy and peace to the world and eliminate all wars and poverty.

        • Western Canadian says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 12:38 pm

          It is not true that the Jewish/Christian books foretold the coming of the lying, child abusing, raping, thieving, slave trader and holder, mass murdering sub animal you worship and call mohammed…. The only possible reference to him, would be the reference to the anti-Christ. Quit lying, you pathetic loon.

    • NOSHARIA4CDA says

      Mar 9, 2016 at 12:39 pm

      Are you high?

      • worldcitizen1919 says

        Mar 9, 2016 at 7:27 pm

        No, of course not. I’m just sharing my views that’s all.

        • Western Canadian says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 8:47 pm

          That your ‘views’ are without exception bald faced lies, should also be noted.

    • CogitoErgoSum says

      Mar 9, 2016 at 1:26 pm

      Muhammad established freedom of worship? Then how do you explain Quran 9:29 and the command that Muslims fight until all religion is for Allah and the “People of the Book” pay the Jizya? Can you explain the Jizya to me and how it is determined and who collects it? It is some sort of tribute or tax, isn’t it? That would put a price on worship for some people, would it not? Do you call that freedom of worship? I certainly do not!!!

      • worldcitizen1919 says

        Mar 9, 2016 at 2:42 pm

        The Muslims were persecuted for their beliefs.

        In Medina this verses was revealed which set the parameters for how the war was to be fought.

        2:190

        190 And fight for the religion of GOD against those who fight against you; but transgress not by attacking them first, for GOD loveth not the transgressors.

        The tax was a war compensation the aggressors had to pay for reparation for those they killed or maimed.

        The Umayyads and Abbasids changed that to apply as a general tax as they were only interested in power and wealth. But it was always meant to be only war reparations.

        • john spielman says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 3:40 pm

          islam is an antichrist doctrine of demons as defined by both the apostle John (1 John chap 1-3) and Paul the apostle when he said “even I or an angel from heaven were to give you a different gospel, let him be CURSED !”… because “Satan masquerades as an angel of light”
          so it is obvious that muhammed was deceived by Satan masquerading as Gabriel an angel of God! and all of islam is a lie from Satan (allah to you)!

        • Western Canadian says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 8:49 pm

          Every lie that muslims tell about their filthy hate cult, this loon repeats as well. Was he bought and paid for? No, he is just a total fool. At best.

        • Western Canadian says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 6:57 pm

          You didn’t answer, you just lied and evaded. As per usual.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 8:24 pm

          I try and answer as best I can.

      • CogitoErgoSum says

        Mar 9, 2016 at 4:40 pm

        Citizen, you say the Jizya is a tax to be paid as reparations for Muslims killed or maimed by the aggression of the “People of the Book?” How do you figure that? The Quran does not say that. The Jizya is a penalty to be paid by those who do not worship Allah the same way Muslims do. It applies to all “People of the Book” who choose not to become Muslims, not just the ones who may have harmed some Muslims in battle. There is no time limit on the Jizya and there is no place on Earth where it is not to be imposed. It’s the unchangeable word and will of Allah. As for those who are not “People of the Book” the Jizya is not even an option for them. For them it’s convert to Islam or die. Where are you getting this idea that Muhammad established freedom of religion? That is totally delusional and bogus.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 7:26 pm

          The tax was always a war reparation tax. The English translations don’t all reflect that but some translations do say compensation not tax. And it was only for those who had attacked the Muslims who were forced to pay it.

          When Muhammad died later the Umayyads began using it to accumulate wealth and made it a general tax.

          Muhammad at first had to flee Mecca because they would have been exterminated but once He had enough men it was always a fight for freedom of worship.

          Don’t you read how the Quraysh wanted to kill Muhammad because worship of only one God was a threat to their economy which was based upon outsiders coming and paying tribute to 360 gods?

          That’s what is was all about to kill of this belief in only one God. But Muhammad stood strong and eventually the Meccans peacefully surrendered and He declared freedom of worship for everyone. He even made Covenants with the Christians that they were not to be harmed or taxed or their churches destroyed or forced to convert against their will. Google Covenants of Muhammad to the Christians and you can find an entirely different story about Muhammad not the negative one being pushed in some quarters just because of some terrorists.

          You have your own mind so investigate it and don’t just believe everything people repeat because Muhammad was a good guy not an evil guy.

          Don’t forget I’m not a Muslim I’m a Baha’i but I don’t like condemning innocent people and Muhammad is innocent.

        • Western Canadian says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 8:51 pm

          You deliberately lie about Christ, dragging him down to the level of a child raping, slave trading and holding murderer, and then you turn around and lie about the child raping, slave trading and holding murderer. You are as vile a criminal, as any jihadi.

        • CogitoErgoSum says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 11:18 pm

          Citizen, if Muhammad was for freedom of religion why did he destroy the idols of the remaining 359 gods? What you say makes no sense at all. Muhammad did not want people to be free to worship as they wished. He was all about forcing everybody to worship his god and master, Allah. Islam is all about submission. Allah is the master and human beings are the slaves. Islam is the total and complete opposite of freedom. You are one very confused individual.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 12:01 am

          Muhammad permitted pagans to have their beliefs so long as they didn’t harm others.

          In Muslim cities idols were forbidden at least publicly. It all depends on whether you consider idol worship for money is a religion. It’s based on lies and deceit that if you give so much $$$ to these statues you will be protected. It’s nothing short of a scam to con money from people and Muhammad rightfully disallowed it in His cities.

          But he permitted Christians and Jews to keep their beliefs.

          He protected the people from exploitation. That’s just how I see it.

        • CogitoErgoSum says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 12:45 am

          Yeah, Muhammad protected people from exploitation by telling them if they died fighting in the cause of Allah they would go straight to Paradise. No exploitation there. No sir. That Muhammad! What a guy ….always thinking about what was best for others and never a thought about himself …. except when it came to dividing up the booty and the women prisoners. But hey ……… that’s one of the benefits of being a prophet, eh?

        • Western Canadian says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 7:01 pm

          Every lie that mass murdering muslims tell, to try to con their next victims, this vile piece of muslim boot licking crap repeats with great enthusiasm. Anyone who hears your lies, and lets their guard down regarding the violence of islam and muslims, and pays for it with their lives, is murdered by you.

    • linnte says

      Mar 9, 2016 at 2:05 pm

      Even I who am a Pagan can see the HUGE difference between Islam and Christianity! You’re fooling yourself WC. Read the New Testament. The New Testament is written and speaking to all humanity. The Qur’an is written and speaking to MUSLIMS only! Every time you read a chapter in your Qur’an it IS PATTING YOU ON THE BACK FOR BELIEVING WHAT IT SAYS! (Caps for italics, not shouting at you) The Qur’an strokes the “I have the only right religion” prideful ideology. Read the Qur’an from a “first person, second person” angle. Who IS IT SPEAKING to? Oh you who believe- always! How does Muhammad say to go and convert new people to Islam? If they do not believe, make the pay the Jizya until they feel subdued. And then if they don’t believe, cut their necks. Don’t believe ME, read the New Testament.

      • Carolyne says

        Mar 10, 2016 at 9:49 am

        I, too, see a huge difference between the Koran and the Bible, or at least the New Testament. The Old Testament is filled with barbarities that would make even a Muslim blush.
        But I do not consider Islam to be a religion at all. It is a cruel, barbaric, misogynist political order masquerading as a religion. Bonefide eligions seek to make mankind better. Islam seeks to make mankind worse.

        • linnte says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 10:59 am

          Exactly!

    • Steve Golay says

      Mar 9, 2016 at 2:30 pm

      To World Citizen 1919,

      Please post the elliptical orbit of the world you are citizen of!

      • worldcitizen1919 says

        Mar 9, 2016 at 2:47 pm

        Try this.

        http://www.bahai.org/beliefs/essential-relationships/one-human-family/

        • Western Canadian says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 8:53 pm

          As usual, no answer. Just more hot air from an habitual liar.

    • blitz2b says

      Mar 9, 2016 at 2:38 pm

      @Worldctizen wrote “…..Muhammad fought and established freedom of worship which is now the cornerstone of all democracies….”

      You pathetic liar! I am tired of utter bull crap Muslims spew top defend their corrupt prophet Mohammed…. Here read the tyrannical commands of your despotic deity Allah.. and weep…

      [2.193] “And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.”

      [3:85] “And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.”

      Will deal with your other lies soon…

      • worldcitizen1919 says

        Mar 9, 2016 at 2:52 pm

        JM Rodwell

        2:190 And fight for the cause of God against those who fight against you: but commit not the injustice of attacking them first: God loveth not such injustice

        • ecosse1314 says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 3:43 pm

          No WC the only person who is distorting is yourself. Who changed the meaning of the passage????. Same old muzzie bs….this is the same book that Mo ( allegedly) was happy to quote from.

        • bridgette barrow says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 3:45 pm

          Then why did muhammad slaughter 700 Jews who did not PROVOKE him in his first battle? PISLAMICS only lie “taqiyya and kitman”. Muhammad attacked them first, raped and enslaved the women, and stole their goods and land.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 7:42 pm

          In Muhammad’s lifetime none of these kinds of things happened because Muhammad only permitted defensive war when they had been attacked.

          The source of these accounts comes from hadiths which were written down 200 years after the event and there are many that were written by Muhammad’s enemies and they are unreliable. The Quran states Muhammad was an example to all.

          This is a fabricated hadith but those who want to believe them will. But we do not believe them.

        • blitz2b says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 6:24 pm

          wc says “….Muhammad fought and established freedom of worship which is now the cornerstone of all democracies….”

          Au contraire … The koran gives Muslims explicit instructions that no other religion would be acceptable to Allah, so where do you get this absurd notion that the rogue prophet established freedom of worship?

          Here Muslims are given instructions to fight the non-believers until they submit to Islam’s brutality..

          …[9.29] “Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection…”

          wc says “…Muhammad is the most misunderstood figure in the history of humanity especially in the west …

          You are absolutely right, Mohammed is the most misunderstood figure in the west, thanks to the invention of the absurdity of Islamophobia, no one is allowed to see the true evil face of Mohammed. He is shrouded from true criticism that would reveal to the world the opportunistic and cunning nature of this cruel man, by this horrible deceptive invention. Islamophobia is promoted by almost all of the world’s politicians and religious leaders, so as not to offend Muslims. Obama says ” ….the future must not belong to those who insult the prophet of Islam…” Why is telling the truth about this evil man considered an insult? But the world’s patience is running out fast.

          wc says “…he Golden Age of Islam brought advances in mathematics, sciences, physics, chemistry, arts, astronomy, medicine, algebra and the first universities in the world were founded by Islam and the first university in the world to award degrees was an Islamic university that still exists…”

          Yeah keep telling yourself these same lies to console yourself….. Maybe some advances were made by Arabs in those fields, which had nothing to do with the religion itself. The religion of Islam brought nothing new to the world besides war and strife for everyone who would not submit.

          wc says “…Christ taught love they neighbour, Muhammad taught love thy country….”

          Mohammed taught no such thing. Love is an alien concept in Islam… Even the love of Allah is conditional. In reality, Mohammed’s message was that of hate and strife. You see examples of his teaching everywhere in the islamic world. Even Muslims are killing Muslims by the thousands. How do you figure that the message of this evil man had anything to do with love?

          Get your head out of the sand dude. Islam is a disease, yes without doubt, it is rapidly spreading, but just like cancer in a body that spreads rapidly, the spread of this ideology is not a good thing, the planet has become terribly sick.

          Stop facilitating this disease with your deceptive diatribe.

      • Carolyne says

        Mar 10, 2016 at 9:52 am

        I think the last lesson for Islam will be at the point of a gun and the explosion of a missile. They cannot exist in a civilized world.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 10:58 am

          They are all created by the one God. We are all fellow human beings no matter what we believe. There is goodness in many people and we hope it never comes to that.

        • Western Canadian says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 6:51 pm

          But then when muslims follow the behaviour and dictates of the child abusing, raping, thieving, slave holding and selling mass murdering piece of crap who created the lie called islam, you jump in and lie about the whole thing. Really pathetic of you.

    • Mirren10 says

      Mar 9, 2016 at 3:35 pm

      Worldcitizen, aka Bahai Bert, like all mohammedans, can’t grasp the simplest logic.

      Christ said false prophets are known by their fruits.

      Take a look at the fruits of islam, Bertie.

      • Mark Swan says

        Mar 9, 2016 at 3:55 pm

        Way past Ripe aint it.

        Bahai Bert…Good One

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 7:16 pm

          We are not Muslims. Just because we accept all religions doesn’t make us Muslims. Please look up Bahai and see that none of our teachings or laws have anything to do with Islam. We are an independent world religion with world peace and unity as our goal.

          Is real is our best friend and our World Centre is on Mount Carmel, Haifa ?

          http://www.bahai.org/beliefs/essential-relationships/one-human-family/

        • CogitoErgoSum says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 7:53 pm

          Citizen, you accept all religions? Well, my religion tells me that Muhammad was not only a false prophet but a murdering, raping, child-molesting, lying and completely perverted but willing servant of Satan. Yes, that’s my new religion and all who do not follow it must pay a special tax of $1000 per year directly to me. Do you accept that? No? Well, I didn’t think so but I have just about as much credibility and authority to establish a religion as Muhammad did.

          Your own willingness to whitewash the evil perpetrated upon mankind by Muhammad is beyond my understanding. I don’t know how you can be so oblivious to what is so obvious. Good lord! How can you admire and praise such a totally despicable man who even after nearly 1400 years in the grave continues to be the cause of so much death and destruction in the world. This madness has to come to an end or it will destroy us all. I am sick of it.

        • Western Canadian says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 8:33 pm

          ‘Someone lying about islam, trying to fool people into believing that it is anything other than a crime against humanity, is either a muslim, or a tool of the muslims. No other options possible.

    • Western Canadian says

      Mar 9, 2016 at 8:06 pm

      For anyone unfamiliar with the postings of the self proclaimed world citizen…..

      He is a total fraud, merely a troll on steroids. He claims that to reject mohamed, a filthy and vicious criminal responsible for the 1400 year crime against humanity commonly called ‘islam’, is to reject Christ. Both the Bible and the vicious and hate filled koran are in complete agreement, and both are the word of the same ‘god’, according to this loon. Yes, the hate cult of islam, that has embraced slavery for it’s entire 1400 year history of bigotry, theft, rape, and vicious butchery, is the same as the imperfect expressions of Christianity, that reject bigotry, theft, rape, slavery and mass murder, are actually in full agreement with each other. According to this delusional fool, or lying fool, whichever he may be. This raving lunatic accomplishes this act of idiotic buffoonery, by taking the Bible out of context to make it sound worse, while deliberately lying about what is in the vicious and hate filled koran, to try to pretend it is not the blueprint for the execution and perpetuation of all crimes ever committed against humanity. He is toxic, an habitual liar, and not worth the time of day. He may refer you to a website that he claims proves that the Bible and the filthy and hate fill koran are in agreement, but you will find it is nothing but pages of hyper-inflated drivel, of a kind usually offered up by those who have nothing, know nothing, and offer nothing of value.

      In light of the obvious delight he experiences as he lies about the ultimate criminal, the mythical founder of the hate cult islam, I cannot help but wonder, that besides his obvious and habitual lying about the bloody and vicious nature of islam, does he, like so many followers of mad mo, have the direct blood of innocent children on his hands??

      • worldcitizen1919 says

        Mar 9, 2016 at 8:20 pm

        Have you’re fun. It seems like you’re enjoying yourself!!

        • Western Canadian says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 8:31 pm

          Enjoying pointing out the criminality that you are here to lie to people about? No, it is sickening, as is your chronic lying about the Bible, and whitwashing the vicious and hate filled koran. You and the jihadis who murder little children: birds of a vile feather.

        • Mark Swan says

          Mar 13, 2016 at 2:49 pm

          worldcitizen1919

          Here Is Just A few Words To The Wise On This Topic.

          Proverbs tells us: “Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him. Do not add to His words, lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar” (Proverbs 30:5–6).

          Jesus Christ clearly stated, “For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished” (Matthew 5:18). The earth is still here and all is not yet accomplished—God’s law remains in effect.

          The Apostle Paul told Timothy: “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3:16–17). No human has the right to change God’s words.

          The last chapter of the last book of the Bible gives a final warning: “For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book; If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book” (Revelation 22:18–19). This is the revelation of Jesus Christ Himself.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 13, 2016 at 3:26 pm

          Hi Mark,

          Fulfillment of prophecy is not adding to the Book. And it is the duty of all good Christians to ‘watch and pray’ for the Christ’s return.

          If Christ is to come from the sky and every eye shall see Him then there’s obviously no need for watching so these words are not to be taken literally as Xhrist often says things like He that hath ears let him see and he that hath ears let him hear yet we all have eyes and ears so that is speaking about needing to have our spiritual eyes open to see Christ’s coming. When there are clouds one cannot see the sun or its light. So when Christ returns if we have the clouds of preconceived ideas and are not open minded we could miss Him.

          That’s why He says His Coming will be like a thief and if we don’t watch we will miss Him He told us to watch meaning to be open minded, because the Books were sealed. Even Daniel was told to go His own way. So nomChristian theologian on earth can unseal the meanings until the Lamb that was slain and the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, the root of David both appear to unseal the Books.

          But to recognise the Lamb that was slain and the Lion we must watch meaning to be on the alert and open minded. Prophesy is not of any private interpretation so it is forbidden to interpret prophecy.

          Only when the Lamb that was slain and the Lion appear can we know the hidden meanings.

          Now, I have seen Christ Come in glory and know Who the Lion and the Lamb are and now have the true meanings of the Bible and they are no longer sealed for me.

          Christians have all missed Christ’s second coming because they disobeyed their Bible and interpreted the verses instead of watched. A true Christian watches and looks with an open mind not interprets and and then rejects anything against his interpretation which is what they do now despite the Books being sealed to them.

          No prophecy is of any private interpretation 2Peter 1:20

          No priest, no clergy no individual,Christian has the right to interpret the prophecies. They are told to watch and pray for Christ to return. The Lion and the Lamb are the only ones found worthy to unseal.

          So why are Christians going against the Bible and interpreting the prophecies? They were told to watch not interpret. They disobeyed and missed Him.

          I watched and saw Him.

          But you can still see Him if you open your heart and not judge but watch investigate and not interpret.

          The Lion is Baha’u’llah Founder of the Bahai Faith.

          He wrote a Book called the Book of Certitude which broke the seals of the seven Books and Daniel. If you are sincere and really watching and not just interpreting and judging you will investigate this without judgement.

        • Sandra Lee Smithn says

          Mar 13, 2016 at 7:07 pm

          You quote Jesus, you quote Paul, yet you attribute their words NOT to them but to some fictional character who came along centuries later and claimed to be Jesus, which has already proven FALSE!

        • Champ ✞ says

          Mar 13, 2016 at 3:47 pm

          Once again “worldcitizen” is publishing bold-faced LIES about the second coming of Jesus Christ.

          Obviously “worldcitizen” has not read what the Bible says will happen at some future time–since NONE of the events the Bible describes have occurred, just yet.

          If you are interested in seeing what Scripture says is going to happen the very day Jesus comes back, then this video is for you:

          https://youtu.be/E8rB4kZIfZ0

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 13, 2016 at 5:27 pm

          Thank for the video. I watched a lot of it as well as made a copy to keep. It speaks truly about a Deliverer coming to Zion.

          Baha’u’llah ‘came to Zion’ and his laws flow from Zion.

          These are His Words…..

          “Out of Zion hath gone forth the Law of God, and Jerusalem, and the hills and land thereof, are filled with the glory of His Revelation. Happy is the man that pondereth in his heart that which hath been revealed in the Books of God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. ”

          Christ said to ‘watch’ for His coming not to interpret and watch.

          The video says we must obey the law of the Bible yet the author breaks a major law

          2 Peter 1:20

          No,prophecy is of any private interpretation’

          In Revelation chapter 5 only Two Persons were found ‘worthy’ amongst all in heaven and earth meaning all those with worldly knowledge (scientists and professors etc) and heavenly knowledge (priests, theologians, the pope etc).

          Only the Lamb Arion meaning Ram not the Lamb Christ as found in the NT but a Ram, a different Lamb that was slain not crucified and the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, the root of David were worth to unseal the meanings. (Bab & Bahaullah)

          Now unless you or this person in the video is that Lamb that was slain or the Lion of Judah you have no right to interpret the prophecies as ‘prophecy is of no private interpretation. Even Daniel was told to go his own way.

          That’s why Christ said to ‘watch’ as in search. He didn’t say interpret and watch. Now Christians have broken the law of the book and ‘applied private interpretations to the prophecies which is forbidden and so they failed to watch and see Christ come.

          Those who watched with an open mind saw His coming in the clouds with great glory.

          He also said He wouldn’t come with the name Jesus or Christ but with a New Name.

          One must beg God to open His eyes , his eyes of understanding as Christ said ‘he that hath eyes to see meaning insight and spiritual understanding not eyesight as we all have that.

          If one is open minded and does not apply private interpretations as forbidden by the Bible, one can see Him.

          I have seen Him and know Him to be the Glory of God, Baha’u’llah.

          Just by applying private interpretations one is missing these things because watch and pray was stated by Christ not interpret and pray.

          So because wrong literal interpretations of symbolical passages, Christians have deprived themselves of seeing God. But if one stop interpreting still they can see His coming if they are sincere.

    • Western Canadian says

      Mar 9, 2016 at 8:17 pm

      “The Golden Age of Islam brought advances in mathematics, sciences, physics, chemistry, arts, astronomy, medicine, algebra and the first universities in the world were founded by Islam and the first university in the world to award degrees was an Islamic university that still exists.”

      There never was a golden age of islam, all islamic ages are bloody, filled with the shrieks of pain and terror that the filthy cult you love to lie about offers to its victims and it’s criminal members alike. You would, if you had ANY trace of decency at all, be ashamed of the vicious fraud that you so blatantly inflict on any and all. If there ever is justice regarding islam, vermin like you, who do so much to lie about and cover up the endless bloody butchering that is islam, would share the gallows with the jihadis you come here to protect.

      • Mark Swan says

        Mar 10, 2016 at 12:16 am

        Conquered people were the only enrichment the Muslim world ever had.
        Jews and Greeks were the contributors of any claimed advances under
        Muslim rule during the Ottoman Empire. The Janissary was completely
        composed of very young Christian Children who were taken from their
        families and raised as Muslims…they were the Sultan’s body guards and
        his effective Generals and elite Soldiers for 500 years of the Empires rule;
        they became the effective rulers of all the known Ottoman world eventually.
        When they finally became weak; through lack of training and discipline
        and took on other duties and life styles like their Muslim counterparts,
        the Empire went into decline.

    • gravenimage says

      Mar 10, 2016 at 6:50 pm

      What a huge load of crap from the meretricious “worldcitizen1919”:

      Muhammad fought and established freedom of worship which is now the cornerstone of all democracies.
      ………………………………

      This may actually be the most outrageous thing “Worldcitzen1919” has ever asserted, which is saying a lot. Before Muhammed the Arabian peninsula had a multitude of religions–Pagans of all stripes, Jews, Sabeans, and Christians. By the time he got through with the region, there was no religion but Islam.

      This is the case today, where no one can bring in a Bible or cross or establish any non-Muslim place of worship.

      The fact is there is no freedom of religion in Islam at all–if any minorities are tolerated, it is only as oppressed and humiliated dhimmis.

      More:

      He taught there is one God and over 1.5 billion people believe in Jesus because one cannot be a Muslim unless they accept Jesus and all the other Prophets as well.
      ………………………………

      The idea that belief in Jesus is due to the foul “Prophet” of Islam is just laughable.

      “worldcitizen1919” appears to have forgotten about *actual* Christians.

      Moreover, as I have noted here many times–including to this dishonest poster–the Muslim “Jesus” is nothing like the Jesus of the Gospels. He is a vicious figure whose role in the “Last Days”, in fact, is to *murder Christians*.

      The idea that Christians should feel grateful for this is absolutely perverse.

      More:

      Muhammad is the most misunderstood figure in the history of humanity especially in the west where accurate information has not been told only stories about terrorism but 1.6 peaceful Muslims attest to Islam as being a peaceful religion.
      ………………………………

      What crap. Not only is violent Jihad rife in Islam, but every pious Muslim affirms the violence of the “Prophet”.

      “worldcitizen1919” consistently tries to pretend that only “Islamophobes” consider the war lord, rapist, and mass-murderer Muhammed to have violent–but this is not true. All orthodox Muslims consider him violent, and consider his violence a model to follow.

      More:

      Also He formed the Ummah or nation state concept before countries like America had been discovered.
      ………………………………

      The “Ummah”, of course, is *not* the same as the nation state at all. In fact, Muslims consistently *reject* the idea of the nation state in favor of the Caliphate, which is a very different matter. The Ummah only applies to devout Muslims.

      More:

      He united the barbaric tribes of Arabia. He taught self defense which is another cornerstone of all nations.
      ………………………………

      Well, the former is true. But the violent tribes of Arabia were formerly a threat only to each other; after Mohammed they became a threat to the whole world.

      The idea that self-defense did not exist before Muhammed is absurd–the Greeks even had a separate goddess for defensive warfare.

      Moreover, the idea that what the warlord Muhammed was doing–conquering and enslaving–was “defensive” is simply grotesque, and a claim “worldcitizen1919” has made many times.

      More:

      The Golden Age of Islam brought advances in mathematics, sciences, physics, chemistry, arts, astronomy, medicine, algebra and the first universities in the world were founded by Islam and the first university in the world to award degrees was an Islamic university that still exists.
      ………………………………

      More lies. The “Golden Age of Islam” was the death throes of Islam’s conquered peoples–the Romans, Persians, and Byzantines.

      As for that fine “university”, this is the same one–Al Azhar–that teaches that ISIS is perfectly Islamic and that taking sex slaves is Halal–*Ugh*.

      And he pretends this is the same as Stanford, Oxford, MIT, or the Sorbonne.

      More:

      Christ taught love they neighbour, Muhammad taught love thy country.
      ………………………………

      Muhammed taught that Muslims can break treaties and attack and enslave their neighbors whenever they believe they have the upper hand.

      More:

      Yes it’s true that although freedom of worship is accepted all over the world but in some Muslim countries it is not enforced enough.
      ………………………………

      Given that Infidels are regularly oppressed, kidnapped, forcibly converted, rape, used as sex slave, and mass murdered in Muslim countries, one might say that…

      More:

      Recently however, Indonesia, the largest Muslim nation in the world accepted the Bahai Faith as an official religion of Indonesia.
      ………………………………

      Yes–a place where peaceful Ahmadi were beaten to death by a Muslim mob while police looked on is a paragon of religious tolerance…sarc/off

      More:

      When Medina accepted Him He returned and fought those who had persecuted Him until freedom of worship was established. He fought for the right of freedom of belief and He won.
      ………………………………

      He used Medina as a base from which to launch his first Jihad–then he turned his sights on the very people who had given him sanctuary, exiling then destroying the Medinan tribes. Like the Banu Qurayza. where Muhammed beheaded all the men and older boys, and enslaved the women and children.

      More:

      Muhammad established the first ‘Ummah’ a community or nation with laws even before the United States of America and other countries were even discovered. The nation state was an idea that came from Muhammad and used by the world as a basis for nation building.
      ………………………………

      “worldcitizen1919” hopes we have forgotten the Greeks and Romans, among others, who much predated the vicious Caliphate, and whose laws actually form much of the basis of Western law to this day.

      More:

      Give credit where it’s due. The nation state founded by Muhammad was an idea taken from many countries to form their own nations.
      ………………………………

      I can think of no nation other than Muslim ones that use the horror of Shari’ah law as their basis.

      More:

      He did teach to love one’s country.
      ………………………………

      As I have noted, he did not. He taught only the primacy of the Ummah.

      More:

      To me I don’t see a person as a Jew or Christian or aetheist (sic). I see you as a beautiful part of humanity. Part of my world family.
      ………………………………

      Well, that’s lovely. Too bad he feels compelled to whitewash the sanguinary horror of Islam, which threatens all of these groups.

      More:

      “References in the Bible to ‘Mt. Paran’ and ‘Paraclete’ refer to Muhammad’s Revelation: Deuteronomy…
      ………………………………

      Once again, “worldcitizen1919” claims that the Bible prophesied the coming of the vicious “Prophet’ Muhammed.

      Never mind that by his lights, Moses prophesied his own coming–when he was already an old man.

      The only prophesy in the Bible which seems salient when it comes to Muhammed is the one cited in the article above about false prophets who are actually like ravening wolves.

      More:

      It was deliberately removed from the Bible and replaced with Comforter to try and show that Muhammad was false yet His name was actually mentioned in the Bible.

      They changed the entire meaning of the passage. Instead of meaning Person to come after Christ to the Holy Ghost as Comforter.
      ………………………………

      This is the usual claims *Muslims* make–that Jews and Christians deliberately changed their scriptures, which were formally supposedly as vicious as the Qur’an.

      Moreover, Muslims believe that since Jews and Christians are guilty of this that they can be freely murdered because they reject Allah and the “Prophet”.

      More:

      The Muslims were persecuted for their beliefs.

      In Medina this verses was revealed which set the parameters for how the war was to be fought.
      ………………………………

      And “worldcitizen1919” affirms that since some Infidels dared to reject Islam that Muhammed was justified in murdering and enslaving them, and imposing the crushing and humiliating Jizya on the survivors. *Ugh*.

      More:

      2:190

      190 And fight for the religion of GOD against those who fight against you; but transgress not by attacking them first, for GOD loveth not the transgressors.
      ………………………………

      “worldcitizen1919” constantly falsifies this quote. The actual Sura does not mention only fighting against those who attack first at all. Does he believe that none of us have read the Qur’an, or that we cannot check?

      And the Qur’an also holds that *all* Infidels should be forced by their Muslim overlords to pay the Jizya with “willing humiliation”.

      More:

      That’s what is was all about to kill of this belief in only one God.
      ………………………………

      What rot. Jews and Christians believed in a single God long before the vicious Muhammed came along. The Meccans had no problem with them, because they were not trying to impose their faith on everyone else.

      More:

      But Muhammad stood strong and eventually the Meccans peacefully surrendered and He declared freedom of worship for everyone. He even made Covenants with the Christians that they were not to be harmed or taxed or their churches destroyed or forced to convert against their will. Google Covenants of Muhammad to the Christians and you can find an entirely different story about Muhammad not the negative one being pushed in some quarters just because of some terrorists.
      ………………………………

      What crap. “Covenants” like the one drawn up by the desperate monks of St. Catherine’s are forgeries meant to ward off Muslim violence. The idea that Muhammed traveled to the Sinai makes no historical sense, and the document obviously does not date to the 7th century.

      More:

      You have your own mind so investigate it and don’t just believe everything people repeat because Muhammad was a good guy not an evil guy.

      Don’t forget I’m not a Muslim I’m a Baha’i but I don’t like condemning innocent people and Muhammad is innocent.
      ………………………………

      This is not it at all–Baha’i grew out of Shia Islam, and they hoped if they toadied to Islam and the “Prophet” enough that it would spare them. Unfortunately for them, they are still persecuted in Dar-al-Islam.

      More:

      But he permitted Christians and Jews to keep their beliefs.
      ………………………………

      Uh huh. This is only true if they live as oppressed dhimmis. And this is what the ugly “worldcitizen1919” considers “freedom of religion”. *Ugh*.

      More:

      We are not Muslims. Just because we accept all religions doesn’t make us Muslims. Please look up Bahai and see that none of our teachings or laws have anything to do with Islam.
      ………………………………

      This is not entirely true. Baha’i grew directly out of Shia Islam. And the Baha’i Shogi Effendi said that a major goal of Baha’i is to whitewash to the West. He said, “The mission of the American Bahá’ís is, no doubt to eventually establish the truth of Islam in the West.”

      Why should that be the case if Baha’i has no continuing ties to Islam?

      Good comments from other posters countering “worldcitizen1919’s” bs.

      • worldcitizen1919 says

        Mar 10, 2016 at 9:07 pm

        You’re free to believe what you want. I believe your sources are corrupt and unreliable. My sources of information come from the Proohets of God not fallible humans.

        I am firmly convinced though that Muhammad is a Prophet of God foretold by Jesus, that Baha’u’llah is the Promised One Who will establish world peace and unity and we are focusing on the positive to try and bring about a better humanity for our children and youth.

        Baha’u’llah said Muhammad was perfect and pure and the Word of God, the Quran confirms that. The Bible, the Writings of the Bab another manifestation of God all praise Muhammad.

        It doesn’t matter what people say about Muhammad it only matters and is only true what God has said. I don’t know if you believe in God but it’s God that says Muhammad is sin free and an example.

        People try and quote this or that Hadith but hadiths were recorded 200 years after the event and the Quran is against hadiths.

        I get my knowledge from the Books of the Prophets of God you get yours from mortal man or your own self.

        According to the Holy Books your views about Muhammad and the Quran are gravely mistaken. That’s all I need to know. If what you say is not in accordance with God’s Holy Books it’s false. Only views that are supported by the Holy Books of God are true and no Holy Book condemns Muhammad.

        Show me in the Quran or Bible where Muhammad is named by name as being false!!

        Where in the entire Bible does it say to ‘beware of Muhammad’ by name? Or in the Quran. It’s just fabrication to ‘add to the book’ things that are not there.

        All these claims against Muhamnad are fabrications without substance and mostly based on hadiths recorded a whopping 200 years after the event.

        Suffice it to say no Prophet, no Holy Book nor God Himself supports your views.

        • Truth Seeker says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 1:17 pm

          God’s Prophets not only did teaching; through God Performed miracles too. Mentioning Mohammad was /is not in the Scope of Bible. Bible focuses only on Prophets of God.
          For external look, Terrorists are only few % Muslim population and the rest are peace loving! Quite Old and Recurrent Statement. If that so, once the Frontline Terrorists are wiped out, Terrorism should get finished. But what does happen? These Vacancies are overfilled up. They come only from the Community and not from the Air.
          Terrorism is not One Man Activity. It requires, Money, Weapons, Manpower,Training etc. Wherefrom these come? From the so called peace loving lot; is it not?
          Rest are Peace Loving is Eyewash Statement. No Doubt, if Religious Freedom is given, many peace loving people will come out.
          In a locality if Muslim population is absent or very negligible, peace prevails there.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 2:18 pm

          Thank you for being tolerant with my view. You make some good points. Yes when some terrorist gone they always can seem to refill. Maybe unemployed youth. I think not so much just religion but money involved too as many families poor.

          But many Muslim people are tired of war and just want good life. Politics and religion not good. Many Muslim communities destroyed because of stupid war. Thank you for sharing views.

        • gravenimage says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 3:26 pm

          Yet more from “worldcitizen1919”:

          You’re free to believe what you want. I believe your sources are corrupt and unreliable.
          ……………………………

          If “worldcitizen1919” believes–like Muslims–that Jews and Christians “corrupted” the Bible, then why would he jump through hoops trying to assert that the Bible prophesied the “Prophet” Muhammed?

          More:

          Baha’u’llah said Muhammad was perfect and pure and the Word of God, the Quran confirms that…
          ……………………………

          What could be “purer” than a violent rapist warlord who enslaved and mass-murdered any who resisted him? *Ugh*. As much as “worldcitizen1919” likes to pretend that Muhammed is only presented as vicious in the Hadith, this is not the case–he is a horrifically sanguinary figure in the Qur’an, as well.

          And of course the Qur’an “confirms” that Muhammed was “perfect”-it came from the “Prophet” himself.

          More:

          It doesn’t matter what people say about Muhammad it only matters and is only true what God has said. I don’t know if you believe in God but it’s God that says Muhammad is sin free and an example.
          ……………………………

          I could not bring myself to support the rape of small children and captives, the enslavement and murder of kidnap victims, the raiding of caravans, and the mass-murder of unarmed captives.

          So sorry to disappoint you and your foul “god”.

          More:

          People try and quote this or that Hadith but hadiths were recorded 200 years after the event and the Quran is against hadiths.
          ……………………………

          Actually, the Qur’an does not mention the Hadith one way or another.

          But–as noted here umpteen times–the Qur’an itself enjoins horrific violence.

          More:

          I get my knowledge from the Books of the Prophets of God you get yours from mortal man or your own self.
          ……………………………

          Actually, I quote the Qur’an here quite frequently.

          More:

          According to the Holy Books your views about Muhammad and the Quran are gravely mistaken. That’s all I need to know. If what you say is not in accordance with God’s Holy Books it’s false. Only views that are supported by the Holy Books of God are true and no Holy Book condemns Muhammad.

          Show me in the Quran or Bible where Muhammad is named by name as being false!!

          Where in the entire Bible does it say to ‘beware of Muhammad’ by name? Or in the Quran. It’s just fabrication to ‘add to the book’ things that are not there.
          ……………………………

          This poster is so meretricious that he claims I said things that I did not.

          The Bible does not mention Muhammed by name at all.

          And of course the Qur’an confirms that every foul thing Muhammed said or did is ideal. It is his own concoction.

          More:

          All these claims against Muhamnad are fabrications without substance and mostly based on hadiths recorded a whopping 200 years after the event.
          ……………………………

          These are not from the Hadith:

          Qur’an (8:67) – “It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land…”

          This shows Muhammed as a slaughterer.

          Qur’an (9:29) – “Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”

          And this shows that Muslims are told to conquer and oppress all non-Muslims.

          Qur’an (4:24) – “And all married women are forbidden unto you save those captives whom your right hand possess. It is a decree of Allah for you.”

          And this shows that Muslims may rape the sex slaves they have taken captive in their raids.

          There are many more.

          More:

          Suffice it to say no Prophet, no Holy Book nor God Himself supports your views.
          ……………………………

          The Qur’an itself confirms its own views–and they could not be uglier.

          And yet more:

          Thank you for being tolerant with my view. You make some good points. Yes when some terrorist gone they always can seem to refill. Maybe unemployed youth. I think not so much just religion but money involved too as many families poor.
          ……………………………

          This has been debunked many times. Most violent Jihadists are not poor.

          Besides, this makes no sense even by “worldcitizen1919’s” own lights. If the Jihadists themselves are only waging violent Jihad for the money, then why are pious Muslims funding this Jihad? They can’t be poor if they have this kind of money–and clearly they themselves hold Jihad as a value.

          More:

          But many Muslim people are tired of war and just want good life…
          ……………………………

          Were this true of any majority of Muslims, then global Jihad would not be mushrooming the way it is. The fact is that Jihad is waged entirely on the diktats of the Qur’an and the model of the vicious “Prophet”.

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 5:54 pm

          And it’s supported by the overwhelming majority of Muslims, if al Jazeera’s polls are to be believed, in the Muslim nations! 75-80% was never a “minority” when I took math; but that was before the first version of “new math” was introduced. And those were only the ones who admitted supporting the jihad and terrorism. Sure were a LOT of them dancing in the streets after 9/11, as an example.
          As for Muhammad’s proclivities; the Muslims themselves freely admit he raped and molested children, indeed are PROUD of it! But when I told an ex-Muslim friend what that does to a child, he was really HORRIFIED: no one had ever explained that to him before. He has 2 sons and a young niece who could fall prey to it.

    • Sandra Lee Smith says

      Mar 10, 2016 at 8:39 pm

      Revisionist history again? REALLY!?! Let it go, kiddo; most of us are onto you and your “inclusiveness” which doesn’t include truth anywhere in it!

      • worldcitizen1919 says

        Mar 10, 2016 at 9:24 pm

        So this is not truth Sandra?

        “As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized, that the reality of the mystery of the Immaculacy of the Virgin Mary is confessed, and the primacy of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, is upheld and defended.

        And

        Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.

        We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.

      • Champ says

        Mar 11, 2016 at 2:25 pm

        Sandra Lee Smith wrote:

        Revisionist history again? REALLY!?! Let it go, kiddo; most of us are onto you and your “inclusiveness” which doesn’t include truth anywhere in it!

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        Precisely, Sandra.

        “worldcitizen” offers nothing but lies, and more lies, through his false teachings and religion: Baha’i.

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        Baha’i …of the devil:

        The Baha’i faith has become a popular religion in an environment of ecumenism, inclusiveness and political correctness. Embraced eagerly by the United Nations and other interfaith organizations, Baha’i is a growing humanist influence on our world. There are currently 17,148 Local Spiritual Assemblies of the Baha’i faith in the world and 4,515 in the United States alone. Members claim a presence in 235 countries and their literature is translated into 700 languages with a total world membership estimated at 5,000,000. The following introduction is meant to be a brief overview Baha’i history, and is by no means an exhaustive history of Baha’i.

        The popularity of Baha’i can largely be attributed to its attempts to unify all faiths, prophets and the entire human race. It embraces the humanist philosophy that all religions should be embraced equally because they are not contradictory and are merely successively updated versions of the same basic religious beliefs. They teach that all religions are the result of the same God and the differences stem only from the age in which they were revealed. They promote gender, racial, and economic equality; universal education; harmony between science and religion; balance between nature and technology; and the development of a world Federal system. Those who believe in absolute truths, such as those found in the Bible, are dismissed as intolerant and an obstacle to world peace.

        Baha’i grew out of Islam, and is in fact a stepchild of the Islamic faith, albeit a despised one. Rather than naming Muhammad as the greatest of the prophets as the Muslims do, Baha’is hold Baha’u’llah to be the greatest of the prophets.

        Excerpt here:

        http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Bahai/bahai-devil.htm

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 2:41 pm

          Much of the information is fairly accurate only where it says Baha’u’llah is the greatest is not really accurate. We consider Baha’u’llah to be the Father of the Christian Bible Who has brought the Kingdom of God but we don’t see Jesus or Muhammad as lesser only that Baha’u’llah is the ‘latest’.

          But I love Jesus and I read the Bible often and I love Jesus more since I became a Baha’i than when I was a Catholuc.

          I accept your criticism as we’re making very bold and staggering claims that you might consider heresy but I found it to be true. I found Baha’u’llah through the Bible not anywhere else.

          Anyway I thank you for being tolerant and patient.

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 6:06 pm

          MORE lies??? HOW can some dude who came along AFTER Muhammad be the father of the Bible when it was written some 500+ years BEFORE Muhammad came along and plagiarized it? That’s the most absurd statement of all the absurdities you’ce come out with! The OT was completed over 400 years before Jesus was born, and the OT within the 1st century after His birth!

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 9:57 pm

          To God the past and the future are one. God can do whatever He wills.

          They called Jesys a liar too. Meaningless. A true Chrustian who really loved her lord could never live with the thought that she could possibly miss her Lord yet you seem only too keen to make that mistake based on what! Private interpretations?

          They carry no validity and to just write off Baha’u’llah so easily is so very sad, especially if you claim to love Jesus.

          So you’re infallible and cannot have made a mistake!! How remarkable!!What a pity people place so much confidence in themselves thinking that they cannot make a mistake.

          You need to put more ‘oiL of open mindedness’ in your lamp or you will never see your lord coming in great glory as I have already seen.

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Mar 12, 2016 at 2:48 am

          Private interpretation??? That was mainstream Christianity for most of 2millenia, ’til our churches “leaders” sold out to the NWO elites back in the ’30s and stopped preaching the Gospel of the Kingdomof Yhwh God and od. Jesus His Christ! That was Peter and Paul, James and John; Martin Luther, John Wesley, Tyndale, Calvin and Knox, Cotton Mather and thousands of others! That’s hardly my “private interpretation”! I’m just here now, reiterating it!

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 12, 2016 at 2:59 am

          Private interpretations are what split Chrustianity into over 20,000 competing, conflicting sects eac asserting they were right and the other sects wrong. A Christianity divided amongst itself which cannot unite themselves, how can they unite humanity?

        • Champ says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 2:51 pm

          “worldcitizen” you are promoting LIES …

          Remember Jesus’ stern warning to those that lie, and work iniquity …

          Matthew 7:21-23:

          I Never Knew You …

          “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’”

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          You have to *do* the will of the Father and have NO other gods before Him, and stop lying by promoting the Baha’i lies from hell!

          The Bible is also clear that liars will NOT inheret the kingdon of God:

          “But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars–they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” — Revelation 21:8

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 3:18 pm

          I accept Jesus as the Son of God and the Bible as the Word of God.

          But Jesus promised He would return. And I am bound by the Bible to accept Him on His return. He says in Revelation He will come with a New Name not the name Jesus.

          Jesus keeps His promises. And has kept them and I am expected to remain faithful as He said He would come like a thief unexpectedly.

          And if we didn’t have enough ‘oil’ in our lamps we might miss His Coming. Which kind of oil? I believe the ‘oil of open mindedness because He tells us to be prepared for any possibility by ‘watching’ and Baha’u’llah is a possibility.

          Another clue is Jeremiah said in the latter days ‘ I will set my throne in Elam’. Elam is Persia, modern day Iran where Baha’u’llah was born.

          No man knowers the time until it happens and the books were sealed until Baha’u’llah unsealed them with His Book of Certitude which is the Book which ‘broke’ the seals in Daniel. Christians at least ought to have a read of it before judging so harshly and calling me liar and such.

          MAYBE I’m telling the truth. Please don’t be so defensive because you will never lose your belief in Christ just by examining Baha’u’llah’s Book of Certitude.

          Please try and have a look at it one day as it talks a lot about the Bible. There are digital copies online. One day please just have a look.

          The Kitáb-i-Iqan

          http://www.bahaiebooks.org/ebooks-by-author

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 6:00 pm

          Jesus ALSO said EVERY MAN would SEE His return as the lightening flashes from the east to the west; and that DID NOT HAPPEN with your Bahaullah! Had it done so; there’d be an historic record of it, as there is of Jesus’ first coming, NOT just among a small group of deluded followers. Fact is, He hasn’t returned as yet. Further, as I understand the prophecies, WHEN He returns, the Church as well as the angelic hosts will be accompanying Him, to reclaim His rightful throne in JERUSALEM, not Elam.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 9:49 pm

          Sandra.

          You have to have the right interpretation and it says ‘no prophecy is of any private interpretation.

          The only way of really knowing for sure is to get the interpretation from Him Who is worthy to unseal the Books the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David. Baha’u’llah was descended from the father of David Jesse and it applies to Him as Christ came into existence thought the Holy Ghost.

          The Book of Certitude of Baha’u’llah is the book that broke the seals of Daniel and Revelation and now we have the correct authoritative interpretation of the prophecies .the lightning flashes from east to west was on May 23 1844 when Samuel Morse sent the first telegraph say ‘what hath God wrought’ on the day of the birth of the Bahai Faith and also signifies the increase in science..

          It’s impossible you can know the prophecies except from the Lion of Judah and any private interpretation is forbidden you.

          Just to insist Bahai is wrong means nothing.

          I have seen Christ come in glory with the Angels and you weren’t there. Without the oil of open mindedness which is what is meant by Christ when He said to watch you will never see His coming because He said he that hath eyes to see and ears to hear to watch meaning spiritual eyes and ears.

          If you really love Jesus you would look into this seriously and not stubbornly insist you are right because the bible only supports the lion of Judha not your own private interpretations. Welcome your Lord for He has come in His great glory with angels.

          We Baha’is have remained faithful to our Lord by accepting Him both times He came. You cannot both accept and reject the Lord. It’s either one or the other so by rejecting His second coming and dismissing it as nonsense based on forbidden private interpretation you are rejection Jesus altogether and only Chrustian by name.

          The Book of Certutude unseals the meanings.

          http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/KI/ki-1.html

          I hope one day maybe in years to come you will look into this seriously.

          Baha’i are not many but Chrustianity inky began with 12 so it’s irrelevant.

          ‘Carmel and Sharon they shall see the Glory of the Lord’ go see what’s on Mount Carmel – the Bahai World Centre. This us a clear unambiguous prophecy.

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Mar 12, 2016 at 2:55 am

          The geneology STOPPED being kept once Jesus was born,; there was NO further need to do so, so all claims to relationship are qurstionable at best. But Jesus did not “become” the Christ when the Holy Spirit descended upon Him, He was simply REVEALED as such to others! He WAS the Christ all along, from before the beginning of time and remains so today! There is NO other, and when He returns EVERYONE will know He has done, at the same time! To claim otherwise is to call Him a liar, because THOSE were Hisst atements.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 12, 2016 at 3:14 am

          Jesus was born of the Holy Ghost and the Son of God. He said so Himself.

          Baha’u’llah is descended from the father of David, Jesse.

          ISAI 11.1. And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse..

          Now we know for fact that the the antagonistic sects of Christianity are like the wolf and the lamb and are split into over 20,000 sects. And that they are not lying down together.

          Yet rhe Bahai Faith is uniting those who were previously of antagonistic sects such as Muslims and Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Zoroastrians and Hindus into one fold and one shepherd yet Christianity is many folds and many shepherds and dispute amongst themselves as to the correct interpretations of the Holy Texts.

          This is abundantly clear to those with understanding hearts and see the glory and wonder of what Baha’u’llah, the Father has achieved.

          ISAI 11.6. The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Mar 12, 2016 at 10:59 pm

          Jesus never “became” the Son of God; He was that from before the foundation of the world. He’s the “rod of Jesse”, the descendent of David Who is forever on the throne of Israel, by virtue of His mother, a descendent of David; and since He still lives is the last of David’s line; the reigning King! Doesn’t matter who Baha’u’llah descended from; he’s every bit as much a fraud as Muhammad and many another false “Jesus”! He’s certainly not the Father! Neither is he the Son, and for sure not the Holy Spirit! Just another liar who has defrauded many to follow his lies. There have been quite a few of them over the past 2 millenia.

        • Champ says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 3:33 pm

          “worldcitizen” does NOT believe in the same Jesus …

          “Which Jesus Do You Follow?” by Living Waters

          Must See!

          https://youtu.be/trwOqDnITvc

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 5:31 pm

          I know; I tried reasoning with him awhile back, and found it entirely useless, so saw no reason to waste time on it again, but others need to know too.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 10:08 pm

          I watched the video you linked.

          How can he say Baha’is believe Jesus is a Messenger when we believe Jesus is the Son of God?

          He doesn’t know what Baha’is believe and yet is telling people wrong information.

          It is Muslims who belive Jesus was only a messenger not Baha’is.

          We believe Jesus was the Son of God.

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 6:10 pm

          That “inclusiveness” makes it VERY MUCH “of the devil”, in fact> The whole NWO/1 world religion agenda being foisted on the world at present is HIS agenda, and Baha’i is apparently one of it’s bigger tools; along with Chrislam and other cults!

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 10:18 pm

          John10:16

          Jesus said there would be one fold and one shepherd and I don’t call Jesus Words anything but truth.

          Jesus is referring to the Bahai Faith because Christianity is many folds and many shepherds, in other words it is not a United fold but consists of many sects, thousands so only the Bahai Faith fits this description.

          And those of ‘other folds’ means other religions will be united. The Bahai Faith brings together Jews, Christians, Buddhism Hindus, Zoroastrians, Muslims all into ONE FOLD.

          You can deny it and dispute it but cannot disprove this truth as it was spoken by the Lord Jesus in the Bible and whatever He says is truth.

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Mar 12, 2016 at 2:40 am

          There a WHOLE LOT of people now walking this Earth, and who have done in the past who were not, are not, and never will be of that 1 fold, because they followed the wrong Jesus, or none at all! Unless you GET that and start follo.wing the right Jesus, you will be 1of those in the outer darkness, with the weeping and gnashing of teeth.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 12, 2016 at 2:55 am

          How many disciples were there when Chrustianity began? Only 12. Look now.

          The entire world is accepting Baha’u’llah and His Teachings in time so it’s a moot point as Christianity began with only a handful.

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Mar 12, 2016 at 3:03 am

          Not so you’d notice! Virtually EVERY other poster on this thread is saying otherwise!

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 12, 2016 at 3:25 am

          You really don’t know anything about the Bahai a Faith do you?

          The Bahai laws and teachings have been unknowingly adopted by people unaware of their origin.

          This forum came about through the utterance of the Word of God.

          Before Baha’u’llah came science had not advanced in thousands of years.

          Now, since his. coming, knowledge has gone to and fro and encompassed the earth resulting in world communications and technology to bring all together.

          Which Words were uttered to bring about this technological age?

          They were these Words.

          “The world is but one country and mankind its citizens”

          Once these words were uttered a process was set in motion to create the sciences and technologies to obey and fulfill this Word uttered by Baha’u’llah.

          The Internet, cars, planes, every technology that you use everyday has come from the utterances of the Words of Baha’u’llah so laugh and scoff all you want people but you are using the very things Baha’u’llah has given you despite being unaware of their true source.

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Mar 12, 2016 at 10:40 pm

          That’s such a laughable crock I don’t even know where to start! Baha’i came along so late in the game that such a possibility isn’t even in the realm of delusion, but sheer hallucination!

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 13, 2016 at 12:45 am

          Then laugh at this. It should make those who think we’re idiots very happy to see us get what’s coming to us.

          http://en.iranwire.com/blogs/13220/6333/

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Mar 13, 2016 at 1:11 am

          We don’t laugh at murder. Not even when we disagree with those who are the victims thereof. Yhwh doesn’t wish any to perish; He wants all to repent and come to Him. As His followers, why would we “delight” in the harm to others?

        • Champ says

          Mar 12, 2016 at 3:17 am

          Not so you’d notice! Virtually EVERY other poster on this thread is saying otherwise!

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Precisely, Sandra!

          “worldcitizen” is DELUUUUSIONAL.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 12, 2016 at 3:27 am

          To me that is the highest compliment you could give.

          If I am cursed for telling the truth then it blesses me greatly.

          Thank you for blessing me.

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Mar 12, 2016 at 10:36 pm

          You’re NOT being “cursed” for telling the “truth”, since you haven’t told the truth; but deception passed off as truth! You started off with the premise, to me, that you can unite Islam and Christianity; as likely as uniting oil and water; a chemical impossibility. Well, so is uniting two such diametrically opposed belief systems spiritually impossible! Then you claimed your Baha’u’llah as the second coming of Jesus; but He told us how His return would appear and that simply hasn’t happened, including the earthquake that will split the Mount of Olives in 2! It’s still one piece.
          Like many a cultist following a false Jesus, you insist YOU alone have the truth; while all the rest of us are following corrupted scriptures, despite the fact that we come from different locations, backgrounds, and likely denominational heritages as well, yet are agreed on the basic tenets of Christianity!

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 13, 2016 at 12:36 am

          Queen Marie of Romania

          It is a wondrous Message that Bahá’u’lláh and his son ‘Abdu’l-Bahá have given us. They have not set it up aggressively, knowing that the germ of eternal truth which lies at its core cannot but take root and spread.

          There is only one great verity in it: Love, the mainspring of every energy, tolerance toward each other, desire of understanding each other, knowing each other, helping each other, forgiving each other.

          It is Christ’s Message taken up anew, in the same words almost, but adapted to the thousand years and more difference that lies between the year one and today. No man could fail to be better because of this Book.

          I commend it to you all. If ever the name of Bahá’u’lláh or ‘Abdu’l-Bahá comes to your attention, do not put their writings from you. Search out their Books, and let their glorious, peace-bringing, love-creating words and lessons sink into your hearts as they have into mine.

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Mar 13, 2016 at 1:15 am

          Mary was no queen, she was a ppogirl from NAZARETH in Israel.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 13, 2016 at 1:30 am

          That’s a letter from Queen Marie of Romania.

        • gravenimage says

          Mar 12, 2016 at 4:43 pm

          Another load of claptrap from “worldcitizen1919”:

          The Bahai laws and teachings have been unknowingly adopted by people unaware of their origin.

          This forum came about through the utterance of the Word of God.

          Before Baha’u’llah came science had not advanced in thousands of years.
          ……………………………

          *Unbelievable*. “worldcitizen1919” is hoping we missed the Renaissance, the age of exploration, the development of the scientific method, the Enlightenment, and the Industrial Age, with their quantum leaps in human understanding in astronomy, biology, medicine, engineering, and their unbounded invention.

          Much of this innovation happened in the West–saying this explosion of innovation happened because of an obscure figure in Persia is absurd.

          More:

          Which Words were uttered to bring about this technological age?

          They were these Words.

          “The world is but one country and mankind its citizens”

          Once these words were uttered a process was set in motion to create the sciences and technologies to obey and fulfill this Word uttered by Baha’u’llah.
          ……………………………

          Clearly “worldcitizen1919” understands nothing about science, technology, and innovation. The West with its influence from ancient Greece and Rome and its emphasis on the individual was long poised for this–a splinter group from Shia Islam was not.

          Despite the lip service Baha’i has given to science, the fact is that there has not been a single Baha’i scientist or inventor of note–as there surely would be if Baha’i was indeed key in the development of technology.

          More:

          The Internet, cars, planes, every technology that you use everyday has come from the utterances of the Words of Baha’u’llah so laugh and scoff all you want people but you are using the very things Baha’u’llah has given you despite being unaware of their true source.
          ……………………………

          Of course this is all rot. Baha’is have had no part in these innovations at all.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 12, 2016 at 5:51 pm

          The Bahai Faith is like the sun rising. We can see some light but it’s still morning. In early Christianity it was the same, then countries and kings became Christians and the whole world changed.

          This will happen with the Baha’is too.

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Mar 12, 2016 at 8:47 pm

          No; it’s more like the nuke that just went off in the dark of night! That “light” isn’t the coming dawn, but the harbinger of DEATH in a most horrible way!

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Mar 12, 2016 at 8:56 pm

          I remember when it was the USSR claiming they’d invented everything; now it’s Baha’i? But the fact is it was western Europeans and Americans that brought us from barely mastering sail power to the rocket and jets and conquering the air and venturing into space! Others rode along on our coattails, even built from it; but technology had stagnated at sails and wheels pulled by animal power for centuries, until the Reformation freed men from the bondage of RCC and allowed science and imagination to flourish, becoming the Renaissance too.

        • gravenimage says

          Mar 13, 2016 at 4:01 pm

          “worldcitizen1919” wrote:

          Then laugh at this. It should make those who think we’re idiots very happy to see us get what’s coming to us.

          http://en.iranwire.com/blogs/13220/6333/
          …………………………….

          This is not just sickening calumny, it also makes absolutely no sense.

          “worldcitizen1919” is pretending that we relish seeing Infidels oppressed and imprisoned by violent, supremacist Mohammedans, when that is exactly what we *stand against* here at Jihad Watch.

          The only problem any of us here have with “worldcitizen1919” and his coreligionists is his repulsive whitewash of the violent creed of Islam–which enables the very injustice under oppressive Shari’ah law that poor Rouhie Safajoo has fallen victim to.

          The idea that Jihad Watch is seeking to impose Jihad is a logical and moral inversion of its very purpose. “worldcitizen1919” owes everyone here an apology–but I very much doubt we will receive one.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 13, 2016 at 5:51 pm

          I thank you for your kind understanding about what’s happening to us and apologise if I have offended you or anyone else. I could have worded it better.

          I’m not perfect and willing to admit it when I make a mistake and apologise.

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Mar 13, 2016 at 7:01 pm

          I suspect you’re correct about that/

        • gravenimage says

          Mar 13, 2016 at 7:00 pm

          Well, I stand corrected–thank you, worldcitizen1919.

          Know that *no one* here wants to see the oppression and suffering of Baha’i like Rouhie Safajoo–or of any other Infidels.

          I have decried the persecution of peaceful Baha’i by Islam many times here.

          This story is being covered on Iran Press Watch, and I will follow it as closely as possible. I will keep her and her family in my prayers.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 13, 2016 at 7:26 pm

          I know you’re nice people. I believe in your goodness. I need to be pulled in line because I get carried away and I’m willing to offer a thousand apologies to be friends because Christians are worth it.

          Christians are people of peace and love & we know that because it has only been the Christian countries in the entire world that have stood against oppression.

  7. Walter Sieruk says

    Mar 9, 2016 at 11:31 am

    Jesus had predicted and warned about the coming of such men as Muhammad. For Jesus taught “Beware of false prophets,which come to you in sheep’s clothing,but inwardly they are ravening wolves.” Matthew 7:15. First John 4:1. also warns that “many false prophets are gone out into the world.” [K..J.V.] For the religion of Islam, who Muhammad was the prophet and founder of was founder and prophet of a religion of denial Meaning that Islam denies that Jesus is the Son of God. As in the Son of God Who is God the Father. Furthermore, Islam denies the Jesus is God the Son. In addition, Islam denies that Jesus is God. Before going over these tree denials of Islam it first should the stated the Bible instructs the way to tell if a prophet or religious teacher is really from and of God or not is do the teachings and doctrines of that prophet of teacher really fit in accord what is found in the Bible ? For if that prophet or teachers and teachers doctrines that are in contradiction to the Bible then that prophet is a false prophet and that religious teacher is a false teacher and thus in doctrinal error and darkness. Likewise if a religion had teachings and doctrines that are in contradiction that is religion is in error also part of the world of darkness and is therefore a false religion. As the Bible instructs in Isaiah 8:20. “To the law of the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.” [K.J.V.] With this clearly stated, three things should be known. First, that Islam denial that Jesus is the Son of God is in great contradiction to the teaching of the Bible . Which reveals the Jesus is the Son of God? As seen in ,for example Matthew 3:16,17. 16:15,16. Luke 1:35. John 3:16, 17, 36. First John 2:22,23. 4:14,15. 5:12,13. Second, that Islam denies that Jesus is God the Son is in strong contradiction to the Bible. As found in Hebrews 1:6-8. With emphasis on verse 8. Third, Islam’s denial that Jesus is God is in great contrast to the doctrine and teaching of the Bible. That Jesus is God may be found in ,for example, John 1:1;3. Colossians 1:15-17. Romans 9:5 Second Peter 1:1. Titus 2:13. First John 5:20. Moreover, to further discover that the Bible teachings that Jesus is God all a person has to do is to compare the Old Testament with New Testament to see that Jesus is God. As in comparing Isaiah 45:22,23. with Philippians 2:5-11. Also by comparing Psalm 89:8,9. with Mathew 8:23-27. will reveal that Jesus is God. Likewise , by comparing Psalm 62:5-7 . with First Corinthians 10:4. shows the Deity of Jesus. Even by comparing the News Testament books together will show that Jesus is God. As in comparing Romans 14:12. with John 5:22. will show Jesus to be God. The list can go on but this should be enough, for all who are willing to see the truth , that Jesus is, indeed, the Son of God. That Jesus is God the Son and that Jesus is God. The imams and mullahs as well as the other apologists for Islam will try to “explain’ this all away by making the claim that the Bible had been corrupted by Christians ,through time, and that’s way the Bible reads as it does. This claim, very much, underestimate the Power of God to protect and preserve His Word ,through time , and to keep in intact and away from the corruption of men. In conclusion, in light and information of the Bible in can be seen that Islam is a awful and terrible doctrinal error concerning it teaching about the Nature of Jesus and therefore Islam is part of the world of darkness and likewise Muhammad was also then false prophet ,in the So Islam with its strong contradictions to the Bible is a false religion, Proverbs 14:12. So all dear Muslims are thus invited to leave the false religion of Islam and come the and receive the Jesus of the Bible who is the only way to heaven ,John 14:6. And the True Light of the world. John 8:12.
    There is a Christian internet site which further replies to the many claims made the apologists for Islam. It’s answering-islam.org

    • Sonja says

      Mar 9, 2016 at 3:59 pm

      Amen to that!

    • Sandra Lee Smith says

      Mar 10, 2016 at 8:46 pm

      One more teeny little detail: Jesus said HE had already given us all the “revelation” that God the Father wanted and needed us to know for this life; so there would be no more revelatory prophets! Since revelation isn’t the only job pf prophets there have been prophets still, but not revelations of “new” information. That would include not only Muhammad, but a number of other cult leaders who claim be bringing new revelation to “reset” the Church of Jesus Christ!

  8. Lucienne says

    Mar 9, 2016 at 11:41 am

    And if it is, why are Catholic leaders so keen on declaring their solidarity with Islam?
    satans one world government/religion. islam, catholics and all false religions. Read the book of Revelation.

    • Sonja says

      Mar 9, 2016 at 4:02 pm

      It is not just Catholic leaders! Even my protestant minister says so. When I asked him did he ever read the quran; “No.” “But, I asked him, how can you know than what it is and what it is saying.?” He wasn’t interested in doing so, he told me. But still claimed that it was merely the same, without knowing what was written in the quran. And this is widely spread in my country in all the protestant churches as well as the Catholic.

      • dumbledoresarmy says

        Mar 9, 2016 at 4:39 pm

        We just have to keep on saying No to people who say this: and explain why.

        Two good resources for ordinary people.

        First, Australian (Anglican) priest and scholar, with a strong linguistics background, Rev Dr Mark Durie, has written a book called “Which God?” which addresses in detail the oft-repeated claim that Muslims worship ‘the same god’ as Jews and Christians. He shows that this claim is false. (And does so in a way that *ought* to be convincing not only to a Jew or a Christian, but to any sensible non-Muslim no matter what their faith background. Atheists and HIndus who have Christian or Jewish neighbours or friends or colleagues who have been fooled into thinking that ‘allah’ is ‘the same as’ the Biblical God could use Durie’s book to try to free said neighbours of that dangerous falsehood.

        ‘Which God?” is a revision and expansion of a previous book entitled “Revelation? Do We Worship the Same God? Jesus, God, Holy Spirit in Christianity and Islam”. That book – not expensive to buy, either – has a *very* helpful summary of the contrasts and indeed oppositions – between the Biblical God and the god of the Muslims – in tabular form in the back. It could be understood by a literate teenager.

        Another useful resource is a booklet entitled “Is the Muslim Isa the Biblical Jesus?”, written by ex-Muslim now-Christian Canon Dr Patrick Sookhdeo. It should be translated into multiple languages and it and Durie’s book should be required reading for *all* seminarians – Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox! – to immunise them permanently against Mohammedan lies. They should be on the bookshelf of every parish church everywhere.

        Then, when smiling, lying mohammedans tell Christians “we worship the same god” and “we respect Isa and Mariam” the Christians will calmly and firmly respond, “No you don’t” and be quite able to explain why.

      • gravenimage says

        Mar 10, 2016 at 6:55 pm

        Yes–it is not just foolish Catholic leaders who are doing this, but religious leaders of many different denominations.

        But as DDA points out, there are also brave figures in every denomination who oppose this suicidal dhimmitude.

      • Sandra Lee Smith says

        Mar 10, 2016 at 8:49 pm

        You’re both correct; the RCC and many of the Protestant denominations as well are falling into what will be known as “mystery Babylon”, the 1 world religion, which is also called the “pure religion of Lucifer”, whom we better know as Satan.

  9. Faithfulwatcher says

    Mar 9, 2016 at 12:32 pm

    Revelation 19:20, “And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who render worship to its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulphur.”

    • worldcitizen1919 says

      Mar 9, 2016 at 1:32 pm

      Try this one instead.

      REV12.1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

      The woman is the law of God. The Sun and Moon under her feet is the emblems of Persoa and Turkey where Islamic empires were formed. And also the Sun and moon refers to Muhammad and Ali.

      The crown of twelve stars upon her head were the twelve Imams

      The beast that you read earlier were the Umayyad dynasty that’s destroyed true Islam.

      • Mark Swan says

        Mar 9, 2016 at 3:27 pm

        A church is often described in scripture as a woman.

        The Woman here is the Church Of God. The reference to sun, moon and 12 stars
        see Gen.37:9…it’s Jacob and Rachel, Joseph and His eleven Brothers.

        Chapter 12 is an inset describing conflict between the woman and the dragon.
        an overview of a history of the true church.

        Also chapter 12 describes the two different rebellions of Satan, verse 4 reminds us
        of the original rebellion ( Isaiah 14; Ezekiel 28 ); and verse 7-12 placed in the
        story flow refers to a yet future rebellion, just before the great tribulation.

        The Beast which is described later in chapter 13, and elsewhere; is a Powerful Political
        Leader; He and a Powerful Religious Leader…are given Satan’s help and rule the Earth
        during The Great Tribulation…a 3 ½ year period…just before Christ’s return.

      • Champ says

        Mar 9, 2016 at 4:45 pm

        “worldcitizen” is Baha’i and he’s a very confused individual who sends *profoundly* mixed messages …

        On the one hand, “worldcitizen” will state that he looks forward to a world without violence. But on the other hand, he refuses to acknowledge that mohammedans follow a violent religion that promotes and commits “jihad” and causing murder and mayhem throughout the world.

        So “worldcitizen” recognizes that violence DOES exist, but his false religion doesn’t allow him to take the next *logical* step in identifying the enemy: islam. It’s pure nuts!

        Sure “worldcitizen” wants peace, but he’s a complete coward for choosing to follow a false religion, like Baha’i, because they aren’t allowed to take rightful aim at evil, and toward those whom willingly commit “jihad” in the name of allah. He isn’t **allowed** to criticize anyone, or anything — yet he recognizes evil? Yeah things that make you go, hmmm …

        Baha’i are the blind leading the blind.

        Islam is overtly evil, whereas Baha’i are covertly evil. But both follow the same false god: satan.

      • Western Canadian says

        Mar 9, 2016 at 7:57 pm

        For anyone unfamiliar with the postings of the self proclaimed world citizen…..

        He is a total fraud, merely a troll on steroids. He claims that to reject mohamed, a filthy and vicious criminal responsible for the 1400 year crime against humanity commonly called ‘islam’, is to reject Christ. Both the Bible and the vicious and hate filled koran are in complete agreement, and both are the word of the same ‘god’, according to this loon. Yes, the hate cult of islam, that has embraced slavery for it’s entire 1400 year history of bigotry, theft, rape, and vicious butchery, is the same as the imperfect expressions of Christianity, that reject bigotry, theft, rape, slavery and mass murder, are actually in full agreement with each other. According to this delusional fool, or lying fool, whichever he may be. This raving lunatic accomplishes this act of idiotic buffoonery, by taking the Bible out of context to make it sound worse, while deliberately lying about what is in the vicious and hate filled koran, to try to pretend it is not the blueprint for the execution and perpetuation of all crimes ever committed against humanity. He is toxic, an habitual liar, and not worth the time of day. He may refer you to a website that he claims proves that the Bible and the filthy and hate fill koran are in agreement, but you will find it is nothing but pages of hyper-inflated drivel, of a kind usually offered up by those who have nothing, know nothing, and offer nothing of value.

      • gravenimage says

        Mar 10, 2016 at 12:08 am

        “worldcitizen1919” wrote:

        The beast that you read earler were the Umayyad dynasty that’s destroyed true Islam.
        ………………………

        This apologist for evil likes to claim that everything was hunky-dory with Islam up until the advent of the Umayyed Dynasty–never mind that the “Prophet” Muhammed himself was a horrifying figure.

        He is willing to tell you that all of that caravan raiding, rape, enslavement, and mass-murder was somehow “defensive”.

        Presumably the terrible codified dhimmitude–whereby Jews and Christians are rendered permanent oppressed and humiliated second-class citizens was all “defensive”, as well. *Ugh*.

      • gravenimage says

        Mar 10, 2016 at 12:11 am

        For some reason, letters are dropping out on posts on this thread.

        I had noticed this in the comments above mine. I especially carefully proof-read my post as a result–and I’m having the same problem.

        That probably will be true with this post, as well.

      • gravenimage says

        Mar 10, 2016 at 12:12 am

        It seems to lower-case “i”s that are dropping out…

      • Kepha says

        Mar 10, 2016 at 5:34 am

        WOrldcitizen:

        The important thing about the woman in Rev. 12 is that she is the church of God in all ages (which includes the faithful remnant in Israel in the period before Christ). She appears as a woman because God said that the one who would bruise the serpent’s head is the seed of the woman back in Gn. 3. The important thing is that she is to bear a child who will rule the nations with a rod of iron–clearly Jesus the Messiah foreseen in Psalm 2. The dragon in pursuit is the devil himself. As for Muhammad, Ali, Hassan, Hussein, t.”hey are among the minions of the devil; for their recitation says that for God to beget a son is monstrous; even if the Messianic Psalm clearly says, “You are my Son, this day have I begotten you”.

        Muhammad believed he was uniting and fulfilling the monotheisms of the Semitic world, and ended up shocked and destructively disturbed when it was clear he had failed to do so. Your Baha’ullah thought he was going to take in the faiths of the whole world–with no more success, doing no more than creating an offbeat Islamic sect.

        If you want to honor Christ, you need to exit Baha’i and join yourself to a church where Jesus Christ and his work are faithfully preached. Your putting in a good word for Muhammad and his house strikes me as akin to those Trotskyites who so loudly denounced Stalin, yet cheered for his minions in every international conflict and civil war, even if the Trotskyites themselves would be the first to be liquidated. Get over it. Muhammad was a false prophet and, barring some deathbed repentance of which we know nothing, is an heir to the lake of fire that burns forever.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 8:33 am

          Hi Kepha,

          To us Baha’is the important thing is that regardless of what we each believe for humanity to end war and bloodshed it has to turn back to God and virtuous ways and accept all men as brothers whatever race, nationality or religion they are from.

          Because we are all created by the same God even though we call ourselves by different name, we are in reality one human family, one human species.

          We Baha’is believe in Jesus as the Son of God and in the Bible but we also accept all the other Prophets God has sent to humanity. This creates universal fellowship and although we are small in number now so too were the disciples only 12 at one time yet now they have spread all over the earth.

          Whatever we believe it’s important that we love all humanity and seek to reconcile our differences and be forgiving. The past cannot be changed but the future can and if we all see the Face of God in each other instead of looking at each other’s faults and shortcomings we can have a much better world even world peace.

      • Western Canadian says

        Mar 10, 2016 at 12:30 pm

        Take your dishonest drivel, and try selling it ti muslims. No one here is ignorant enough to believe your pathetic lies.

      • gravenimage says

        Mar 10, 2016 at 3:44 pm

        The glitch with the “i”s dropping out has been fixed. Thanks!

      • Kepha says

        Mar 11, 2016 at 5:54 am

        World citizen: You accuse those of us who deny Muhammad of denying Christ, since Christ supposedly prophesied Muhammad’s coming. Please give us a better exegesis of the promise of the Paraclete from John, using the Gospel of John itself. Your assertion, rather than an exegesis of John, is no more than repeating an Islamic and Baha’i shibboleth, which is not truly substantiated from the text to which it appeals.

        Several of us have dealt with your use of biblical texts.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 6:30 am

          Ok thanks for the offer.

          Firstly,

          Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
          2 Peter 1:20

          Now, I’m not a prophet and am not permitted to interpret it privately so how do you wish me to proceed?

  10. Tuvia Fogel says

    Mar 9, 2016 at 12:47 pm

    Just a point of interest. Joel Richardson writes in his book: ‘While many religions and systems of belief exist that do not agree with the doctrines of Christianity … only Islam fulfills the role of a religion that exists to deny core Christian beliefs’. Now try replacing the faiths in the sentence: ‘While many religions and systems of belief exist that do not agree with the doctrines of Judaism … only Christianity fulfills the role of a religion that exists to deny core Jewish beliefs’. Works just as well, doesn’t it?

    • CogitoErgoSum says

      Mar 9, 2016 at 2:22 pm

      Actually, no it doesn’t if you accept that Jesus is the Messiah as foretold by the Jewish prophets.

    • Mirren10 says

      Mar 9, 2016 at 3:44 pm

      Also, Tuvia Fogel, it isn’t Christians murdering Jews and Christians, but muslims. You might want to think about that.

      • Mark Swan says

        Mar 9, 2016 at 3:59 pm

        Yep Good Point there.

    • dumbledoresarmy says

      Mar 9, 2016 at 4:53 pm

      Actually, Tuvia, you might try reading Franz Rosenzweig. He had some interesting insights into Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

      While being very well aware of the differences between Christianity and Judaism he still classified Christianity together with its parent faith, Judaism, as being one type of thing, in contradistinction to all other – non-Biblical – faiths and belief systems, among which systems he classified Islam.

      A different way of seeing things that cuts across *that* distinction (ie. the distinction – and it *is* a clear distinction – between what I’d broadly call the ‘biblical’ faiths (Judaism and Christianity) and the ‘non-biblical’ faiths – is the distinction between belief systems that accept and teach or have some recognition of what we call ‘the golden rule’ (do to others as you would they should do to you/ or [the negative formulation] do not to do to others what you would not want done to yourself) and those that reject it. When one uses that classification system, most major faiths still extant end up alongside Christianity and Judaism – though the Biblical faiths have far and away the strongest and clearest and most consistent teaching of that Rule – but Islam is revealed to be explicitly and actively *rejecting* the ‘Golden Rule’ and teaching instead that ‘compassion’ is *only* for fellow muslims while all other humans are legitimately to be hated, attacked, treated with “harshness” (cruelty).

      • Kepha says

        Mar 10, 2016 at 6:43 pm

        I think Rosezweig’s buddy Eugen Rosenstock-Huessy also had some worthiwhile things to say.
        BTW, DDA, thanks for recommending Hart’s _Atheist Delusions_ to me.

    • Sandra Lee Smith says

      Mar 10, 2016 at 8:55 pm

      No, it doesn’t because we, as Christians, recognize that the Messiah prophesied in the Torah came in the Person of Jesus of Nazareth, and we embrace Judaism as He modified it for us; without rejecting it or seeking to destroy our Jewish roots! Throughout history it was the RCC and other faux Christians (those who claim, but DO NOT practice Christianity as it was given us by Jesus the Christ) who have sought to kill Jews; not the practitioners of Biblical Christianity. I realize it’s difficult for those outside our faith to discern the difference, but there is a discernible difference.

  11. WCM says

    Mar 9, 2016 at 1:04 pm

    A keeper. Thank you Robert for this useful reminder; very useful when addressing the local multi-cultis and even those in our church who are enamored by the squishy theology (usually via the public schools) of, “The three great religions who worship the God of Abraham . . .” Bovine scat.

    • WCM says

      Mar 9, 2016 at 1:06 pm

      Oops! Sorry. I meant to say “Thank you Robert for placing this Ralph Sidwell article!” 🙂

      • saturnine says

        Mar 9, 2016 at 2:30 pm

        Actually it was Robert who permitted Ralph Sidway to post this article by William Kilpatrick which quotes Ralph Sidway.

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 8:57 pm

          And thanks to all of them that it’s here!

  12. Arcesilaus says

    Mar 9, 2016 at 1:04 pm

    Anyone who thinks with some basic objective logic would come to the conclusion that the one who came out of some cave says that they not only met with but went on an adventure with an angel talked to a supreme being who says to follow whatever he says and he writes about this “experience” in some book so he can build his own army and as an excuse to pedophilia and his sadistic tendencies was indeed a false prophet.

    The answer is YES. There is no doubt in my mind that he was false and was manipulating people and continues to from beyond the grave. Think an ancient Jim Jones, whose bad qualities are ramped up on steroids and crack.

  13. Resist says

    Mar 9, 2016 at 2:16 pm

    YES false prophet, a pirate, a pedophile and an evil spirit. The scum of the Earth

  14. Wellington says

    Mar 9, 2016 at 3:16 pm

    As an agnostic, one with no religious belief whatsoever, I have long been puzzled how any Christian, let alone a very well educated Christian, can show respect for Islam and Mohammed. For other religions like Hinduism and Buddhism, yes, but for Islam, no.

    Islam contradicts, indeed insults, Christianity. It is so crystal clear that it does that nothing could be clearer. As for the character of Mohammed, compared to that of Jesus and other religious or ethical founders like Buddha, Zeno of Citium, Epicurus, Confucius, Lao-tzu and Zoroaster, there is nothing that we know of that makes any of these figures repulsive while Mohammed has repulsiveness written all over him, which we know of because the Islamic sources esteem these malevolencies in Mohammed’s make-up. So, show me a Christian who says they admire Islam and Mohammed and I will show you a confused Christian.

    • Mirren10 says

      Mar 9, 2016 at 4:00 pm

      Actually, Wellington, *I* would say, any Christian who admires islam and mohammed, is either a fool who hasn’t bothered to read the texts, or is not a Christian at all.

      I hope you and yours are well, Wellington !

      • mortimer says

        Mar 9, 2016 at 4:29 pm

        Wellington wrote: “show me a Christian who says they admire Islam and Mohammed and I will show you a confused Christian”

        Roman Catholic policy has been confused about Islam since Vatican II, due to an agenda-based theology that came from Lebanon. The concept of “Abrahamic faith” in reference to interfaith dialogue started with its most important and influential promoter, a Lebanese Maronite priest, Youakim Moubarac, following in the footsteps of his teacher, Massignon, who regarded Islam as a faith of genuine revelation — and Muhammad as a prophet. The idea was to ‘create’ a theology to bring people together so they could agree to live in community in the Near East. Muslims ignore the ‘Abrahamic theory’, because they believe Abraham was ‘really’ a Muslim…case closed…minds closed…full jihad ahead.

        Theologian Mark Durie calls this ‘The Abrahamic Fallacy’ and further terms the theory ‘dhimmis theology’. Furthermore, Jon Levenson, a senior Professor of Bible at Harvard says the ‘Abrahamic theory’ relies on an invented version of a common Abraham that is not in the Christian or Koranic texts.

        To make matters worse, the Vatican follows Fr. Youakim Moubarac’s fallacious ‘Abrahamic theory’ in guiding it into the interfaith dialogue with Muslims.

        Some serious ‘theology-theology’ needs be done by Roman Catholics and others to replace the specious ‘Abrahamic fallacy’…which is (as I said) agenda-based theology and heretical.

        • Wellington says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 5:09 pm

          I agree, mortimer, that Vatican II is the culprit here. In fact, Vatican II got so many things wrong that I am very much inclined to repeat what I wrote above but with a variation, to wit, show me a Catholic (or any Christian for that matter) who thinks Vatican II was a positive and I will show you a confused Catholic.

        • Champ says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 6:20 pm

          And not just Vatican II, but those whom follow Rick Warren and the evil Chrislam movement:

          “Exposing Chrislam”

          http://www.exposingchrislam.com/

        • DFD says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 11:41 am

          Mortimer,

          you are a fountain of knowledge.

        • gravenimage says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 7:05 pm

          Great comments from Wellington, Mirren, Mortimer, Champ, and DFD.

      • Wellington says

        Mar 9, 2016 at 5:11 pm

        Good to hear from you, Mirren. Yes indeed, lots of confused or foolish Christians running around these days but, to be fair, many other Christians really do “get” Islam. What a goofy world we live in. Hope you are doing well, my friend.

        • SoCalMike says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 8:46 pm

          Wellington,
          People just don’t read.
          This is not only the first theologically illiterate generation to be considered educated but the first illiterate or semi literate generation to be considered educated.
          Both stunning and chilling.

          One writer recently wrote there’s an erie trisection of arrogance, affluence and ignorance on the campuses of American universities today.

    • Sandra Lee Smith says

      Mar 10, 2016 at 9:03 pm

      Frankly, if you show me someone claiming to be Christian and admire Islam or anything about it, I will show you a LIAR!

  15. Muhammad Bear says

    Mar 9, 2016 at 3:40 pm

    It’s the idiots that believe he existed that have stirred things up.

  16. Champ says

    Mar 9, 2016 at 4:40 pm

    Pat Robertson interviews Robert Spencer …

    “Is Muhammad A Fake Prophet”

    https://youtu.be/OSGV0e45sqo

  17. mortimer says

    Mar 9, 2016 at 4:44 pm

    William Kilpatrick wrote: “Was Muhammad a False Prophet?”

    There is internal evidence in the Koran of two doctrines about Christianity, the first acceptant and the second condemnatory.

    The two different Korans (one from Mecca and one from Medina) are suspicious, because totally incompatible. The two Korans suggest there are two Mohammeds. The first Mohammed said Christians and Zoroastrians would go to heaven. The second Mohammed said they would not. Which is the real Mohammed.

    I believe the Koran is an intentional mixture and plagiarism of previous texts. The notorious Caliph Abd al Malik (who smashed the Kaaba and Black Stone with catapult stones) and his vicious, murderous lieutenant al Hajjaj were certainly capable of inventing a holy book to fit the bill of a state religion. Under the reign of Abd al Malik, many elements of Islam suddenly appear, including the Koran…but not the version of today! We must assume that Abd al Malik created the Koran and then created his own version of Mohammed.

    The falseness of Mohammed is based on his fabrication by different writers. Mohammed is as real as Robin Hood and his Merry Men or King Arthur and the Round Table. Even Muslims who look into the reliability of Islam’s source texts have come to the conclusion that little of it can be considered historical. When Muslims see this, they are shaken up by the lack of evidence for the highly detailed life of Mohammed that the mullahs have invented.

    The hadiths, Sira and later biographies of Mohammed are more and more considered elaborate hoaxes.

  18. Plamen says

    Mar 9, 2016 at 6:04 pm

    It should be Quran 4:171, not 4:173:
    http://quran.com/4/171
    “…Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son…”

  19. allahu snackbar says

    Mar 9, 2016 at 6:27 pm

    Yes, but all “prophets” are false. gods don’t exist and muhammad invented his own religion to justify doing whatever sick things he desired.

    • Champ says

      Mar 9, 2016 at 6:36 pm

      Question: “Does God exist? Is there evidence for the existence of God?”

      Answer: http://www.gotquestions.org/Does-God-exist.html

      https://youtu.be/ukOTW-pxuL0

      • Jan Aage Jeppesen says

        Mar 9, 2016 at 7:52 pm

        If you can prove that God exists there is no need to believe in him. So careful what you wish for. 😉

        • Champ says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 8:26 pm

          Ok, prove that God does NOT exist …

          Waiting.

        • Jan Aage Jeppesen says

          Mar 9, 2016 at 11:31 pm

          To Champ

          First you define what God means. Without a definition the word could mean whatever you want it to mean. I am not a mind reader. 😉

        • Champ says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 12:31 am

          Jan wrote:

          If you can prove that God exsts there s no need to beleve n hm. So careful what you wsh for.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Well, you’re the one making the claim that God does not exist …so you tell me, who is God in your view? Lets start there.

        • Mo says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 8:41 pm

          @ Jan Aage Jeppesen

          “If you can prove that God exists there is no need to believe in him. So careful what you wish for.”

          What nonsense. Why would anyone believe in anything for which is there zero proof?

          The Bible NOWHERE teaches any such nonsense.

    • Sandra Lee Smith says

      Mar 10, 2016 at 9:06 pm

      Not true; there is 1 Creator, Yhwh God; Who has proven Himself real from the first.

  20. Champ says

    Mar 9, 2016 at 6:46 pm

    “Was Muhammad a False Prophet?”

    Yes …

    And he’s not the only one, so is “worldcitizen”!

  21. Jan Aage Jeppesen says

    Mar 9, 2016 at 6:52 pm

    There are no objective or universal criteria we can use to determine if a person is a true or false prophet, or for that matter if he is a prophet at all.

    So it is a meaningless discussion because it depends on subjective belief. To believe means to hold something for true without sufficient evidence that it is actually true.

    • Loves God says

      Mar 9, 2016 at 10:33 pm

      In the secular world, this it true.

      Since Christianity (New Testament) does not cover this topic really, we look to the Old Testament Deuteronomy 18.

      Picking up at verse 14, Moses is talking about what will happen or what they should do when they get to the promised land. Eventually God will send you another prophet (meaning Jesus) who will be similar to me, I will put the words in his mouth, anyone who speaks in my name that I did not send is false and should be put to death. Going along and

      Verse 21. How will we know if they are a true prophet? If they say something will happen and it does not come true, then they do not speak for God.

      • Jan Aage Jeppesen says

        Mar 9, 2016 at 11:47 pm

        Then Muhamed could be a true prophet. He prophesized, that the Jews would be persecuted until Doomsday for rejecting him as a true prophet. That does not make Muhamad a true prophet but so far he has been right. 😉

        Seriously. I think my statement is true in all possible worlds.

        • Mark Swan says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 2:43 am

          What Is This? Do You Honestly Think Just Your Opininion Sums Things-Up.

          Jan Aage Jeppesen…does proof intrest You…You Imply it does…try reading this:

          Hundreds of prophecies given thousands of years ago have been fulfilled, are right now being fulfilled, and will be fulfilled in the years soon to come. One such prophecy involved Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon, who had a dream that none of his advisors could interpret. Only Daniel, through God’s revelation, was able to reveal and interpret King Nebuchadnezzar’s dream. Daniel explained that the king had seen a mysterious image, with head of gold, chest and arms of silver, belly and thighs of bronze, and feet of iron mixed with clay. The head of gold represented Nebuchadnezzar. The rest of the image foretold future kingdoms. “But after you shall arise another kingdom inferior to yours; then another, a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth. And the fourth kingdom shall be as strong as iron, inasmuch as iron breaks in pieces and shatters everything; and like iron that crushes, that kingdom will break in pieces and crush all the others. Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay” (Daniel 2:39–41).

          Reputable Bible scholars and historians agree about the identity of these empires. After Nebuchadnezzar’s Babylonian Empire from 625bc to 539bc came the Medo-Persian Empire from 558bc–330bc, the Greco-Macedonian Empire of Alexander the Great from 333bc–31bc and the Roman Empire from 31bc–476ad. Finally, the ten toes of iron mixed with clay represent a future revival of the Roman Empire. The prophecies of Daniel are genuine, and his predictions of these four empires did come to pass.

          Also, there are more than 100 fulfilled prophecies in the Old Testament foretelling the coming of the Messiah. Among them is Isaiah’s prophecy that the Messiah would be a descendant of King David, the son of Jesse (Isaiah 11:1), that the Messiah would be born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14), that He would live in Galilee (Isaiah 9:1–2), that His mission would include the Gentiles (Isaiah 42:1–4) and that He would die with the wicked (Isaiah 53:9). Other prophecies foretold that He would be born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2), that He would be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12–13), that He would enter Jerusalem on a donkey (Zechariah 9:9) and that He would be like a smitten shepherd (Zechariah 13:7).

          These are just a sampling of the many prophecies which are verifiable there are a great many more; this is not a guess; this a Real God; Who Uses Prophecy to warn and to verify. You are not just mocking the Christians here, You are trying to Mock God. Yet If you would just look up these few examples and see for Yourself if there is anything to prophecy; You would be able to see that the prophet is just recording what God says it is God’s Prophecy, and only God can look into the future and make it happen.

        • Champ says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 3:24 am

          Great comment, Mark.

          And …

          “THE FOOL HAS SAID IN HIS HEART, THERE IS NO GOD” — Psalm 14:1

    • DFD says

      Mar 10, 2016 at 2:32 pm

      To: Jan Aage Jeppesen

      You state:

      A) “There are no objective or universal criteria we can use to determine if a person is a true or false prophet, or for that matter if he is a prophet at all.”

      B) So it is a meaningless discussion because it depends on subjective belief. To believe means to hold something for true without sufficient evidence that it is actually true.

      It makes more sense to answer first your point B)

      You are simultaneously wrong and right. First of all God ask or encourages believe, that is trust in him. He provides circumstantial evidence, but that is all that he provides. Any more than that would nullify the test condition of believe. Believe is to accept or to reject. Faith is to practice a believe system. Using Islam to illustrate, the so called moderate Muslim who only knows the first seven verses of the Quran, or not even these, is a believer – although he or she may give a damn about it. The Jihadist, open or hidden, is a faithful Muslim; for he or she acts in correspondence and obedience with the believe system. It’s irrelevant if Shia or Sunni or whatever. Similar with Christianity, there is a huge number of Christians who barely know the Lord’s prayer, if at all, yet identify themselves as Christians, culturally or actually believing. Then there are the faithful ones who *practice * their faith, two well known examples, Mother Theresa and Albert Schweitzer. Denomination is actually irrelevant, generally held as good. Or take Martin Luther, held as bad by many Christians, and by many others as good.

      There’s a third variety, among many others, by name of Reverend Monsignor Georges Lemaître, he was the one with the ‘big bang, challenging Einstein (a friend of his, who rejected that initially, accepted it and now it is accredit to him, falsely), preceded Hubble as well. See: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Georges+Lema%C3%AEtre&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=-L7hVtKlLaavygPn8p74Bg The pope invited him, wanting to use him to ‘prove God’s existence’. He declined and stated that that is not only impossible but contrary to God’s will who wants us to prove or disprove our believe and faith. He stated that all he did showed that in the beginning there was indeed light, the flash of an incomprehensible explosion, he called it ‘the cosmic egg’. Einstein popularized it as the ‘big bang’ and since then it is ascribed to him, erroneously so. The pope was very unhappy about this. Father Lemaître was asked by several interviewers how he can be a believer when he stuidied astrophysics, mathematics and similar, and lectured on these. He replied: “I am practising my faith.” The list goes on and on, Werner von Braun, Prof. Heisenberg (Quantum theory and uncertainty principle, both Protestant, Einstein, his believe based upon Spinoza’s theological philosophy, etc., etc. Last but not least of course, Blaise Pascal, unit of pressure, inventor of (modern form of) roulette. He is the one with the famous challenge of “Pascals Wager” – to believe or not to believe.

      Before coming to point A), consider these logicals:

      1: You cannot be an atheist without God.
      2: As an atheist you *believe * that we theists believe in nothing. But that means that you are a theist. The reason, the logic being that you as an atheist proclaim to believe in nothing.

      Please tell, are there two kinds of nothing? A wrong and a right nothing? — Hmh; may the nothing be with you. Errh, your nothing or ours? As you wish.

      Never mind such details like source and point of origin, an absolute requirement in every physical construct, theorem or given real. Or as our Boss put it: “I’m the Alpha and the Omega!”

      And now to your point A): That is actually fairly easy, given historical and circumstantial evidence. Where do you find the most congruence? In the Bible.

      You could now argue about the Bible, don’t bother, I know all your arguments, these are easy to disprove, to the dismay of a relatively small number of Christians. The Bible would actually gain thereby, not lose. No, I am not a ‘creationist’, about these, and my respect for them, since they are my fellow Christians later. The Bible does contain however the word of God, namely in the Prophets, right up to Jesus. The Bible has no error, the only wrong things have been introduced by the ‘campfire scholars’ in Babylonian captivity, and the moronic nonsense introduced by certain idiots. What are those idiots called? Oh yes, I remember, they are called ‘scientist’, these were acting as advisers to various councils. Fortunately it’s easy to strip those few added idiocies away, and one has a very clear and concise book. Acting to help to establish believe and to have faith, *trust * in God. It hardly makes references to the physical world, since this is unimportant as far as the Bible, God, is concerned. It tells us correctly about the beginning, the original explosion, and that there are at least two universes, this one and God’s Realm. Everything else is of no import, to satisfy our curiosity, we have been given brains for that.

      The system of believes within Christendom, we follow many ways, human nature. I myself was raised Protestant, given up on denominations, and came round to the views of Newton, Thomas Jefferson etc., in a way, that is a denomination. About those creationists that a lot of people make fun of, I don’t, because they are my fellow Christians. However, they too have their arguments, consider here the tale of the two fleas.

      So, I respect your views, but please don’t degrade ours, which you are not able to do anyway. May my nothingness enlighten you with something.

      • Champ says

        Mar 10, 2016 at 8:46 pm

        And what’s even MORE crazy is that atheists–in general–believe that *something came from nothing* …what silly nonsense! This defies all logic. It actually makes much more sense that *something came from God*, which of course ALL things did 🙂

  22. Matthieu Baudin says

    Mar 9, 2016 at 7:38 pm

    “…Beware of false prophets who … inwardly are ravenous wolves.” “Ravenous” certainly seems an apt description of Muhammad. While it’s not know exactly how many people he killed in the course of spreading Islam, it is known that on one occasion he presided over the beheading of between 600 and 900 captured men. “Ravenous” also seems to fit most of his successors. Islam’s’ 1400 year history is largely a record of conquest and subjugation. By one estimate, approximately 170 million people have been killed in the name of Allah, making Islam the greatest killing force in history by far…”

    Crimes against humanity committed on this scale cannot and shouldn’t be airbrushed out of history.

    Unfortunately the descendants of the slaughtered and dispossessed, the descendents of those who long ago unsuccessfully resisted the armies of Islam, it is they who have chosen to bury their own past and have heaped disrespect and contempt upon their ancestors.

  23. SoCalMike says

    Mar 9, 2016 at 8:05 pm

    Christ cured the sick, fed the hungry, healed the wounded, raised the dead and even shared that power with his disciples, gave the blind sight, cast out “demoniacs,” and foretold the future of his betrayal, death and resurrection.
    No one could stop him.
    He did what he came to do.

    Mohammed was the first Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin ad nauseaum perhaps the first ever to introduce beheading, raping and stealing in the name of the “divine.”

    The American “leadership” today has embarked on an official policy of arming, funding and empowering this.
    I hope they are proud of themselves.
    They deserve to firing squad and the gallows.
    At a minimum there are so many special places in hell with their names on it like Barack Obama, perhaps the greatest false prophet since Mohammed, John Kerry, Hillary and Bill Clinton, John Boehner, Paul Ryan, Mitch Bitch McConnel and far too many to name here.
    I would add a vast majority of the American press corps and countless professors and teachers spreading demonism and lies from the pulpits of their state sponsored sinecures where they indoctrinate and mislead young minds.

    • DFD says

      Mar 10, 2016 at 3:01 pm

      SoCalMike said: “….The American “leadership” today has embarked on an official policy of arming, funding and empowering this. I hope they are proud of themselves. They deserve to firing squad and the gallows….”

      You forgot the European “leaders”… And all those helpers and promoters they have, on both side of the Atlantic.

      That makes your solution impractical. At least were the gallows are concerned. Man, think about all that rope. Guillotine? One would have to invent a hopper-feeder belt and head/body removal system. Too complicated.

      Firing squad? Possible with those electrically driven Gatling guns. But, a) you’d need a lot of these, and b) body disposal.

      So, SoCalMike, before making such suggestions, as good as they are, please give the practical implementations some thought. 🙂

  24. bobm says

    Mar 9, 2016 at 9:12 pm

    watch this by David Woods.. regarding the Jewess… the poison… the self condemning prophesy of mohammed concerning his death and veracity…truthfulness… ..

    kinda sounds like … aorta closed….. case closed… eh?…

  25. Zimriel says

    Mar 9, 2016 at 10:23 pm

    Paul Casanova, “Mohammed and the End of the World”, translated (roughly), at the link.

    • worldcitizen1919 says

      Mar 9, 2016 at 11:30 pm

      Hi Zimriel,

      I couldn’t find the link. Might like to see that Book if you know where it is.

      I think it would be talking about thr Mahdi which already came about 170 years ago in Iran but they executed Him as a heretic.

      His name was the Bab and He claimed to be the hidden Twelfth Imam but He’s appeared and gone so what they are waiting for nothing.

    • gravenimage says

      Mar 10, 2016 at 7:19 pm

      This link is not hard to find:

      http://www.academia.edu/20363722/Mohammed_and_the_End_of_the_World

      • worldcitizen1919 says

        Mar 10, 2016 at 9:41 pm

        Thanks very much for that. The link never showed up in your original post.

  26. qedlin says

    Mar 9, 2016 at 10:38 pm

    “Was Mo a false prophet” can be answered by asking “is Obama a traitorous liar,” is “Slick Willy a pervert” and is “Hillary a felon?” Some cosmic propositions are self-evident.

  27. Brodie says

    Mar 10, 2016 at 12:00 am

    This author doesn’t go far enough. Muhammad wasn’t just a false prophet, he was THE False Prophet, The Man of Perdition that Jesus himself warned us about.

    He single handedly started a religion that expressly denies the divinity of Jesus Christ. Not only is it against that truth, it calls for the death of those who persist in proclaiming it.

    Like the author says, Muhammad had to create his own Jesus as just another prophet, and NOT God – the Son. Jesus must be demoted so Muhammad can gain credibility.

    Furthermore, his satanic religion had become the 7th Beast, the one after the 6th Beast Roman Empire in force during John’s time. This beast was wounded to death by the ending of the Ottoman Empire, but who’s deadly wound was healed ( by the massive infusion of wealth by oil sales), and became the 8th.

    Muhammad is THE False Prophet – no doubt about it !

    Check this out…

    http://content.streamhoster.com/od1/player/teachingfaith/h264/the%20last%20days/dec%2011%202011%20the%20last%20days%20pt%20110.mp4?autoPlay=1

  28. Champ says

    Mar 10, 2016 at 12:44 am

    Glenn Wilson wrote:

    Jesus the Son of God, performed many mracles, how many mracles dd Muhammad every performed? Islam worshps the perfect man, Mohammad. If you study the Quran and Hadth, Mohammad s a Prophet of Lucfer, demon possessed psychopath, a false prophet, murderer, chld rapst, pedophle, terrorst, sex slave trader, racst, extortonst, sex addct, pervert, wfe beater, and a msogynst. Dd I say Pedophle?
    Mohammad s a great role model and an example of the perfect man. If Mohammad s a prophet, he s the prophet from Hell.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Exactly, Glenn!

  29. Moa says

    Mar 10, 2016 at 1:01 am

    MOHAMMED DID NOT EXIST IN THE WAY ISLAM CLAIMS – THE ARCHEOLOGY SHOWS HE IS MOSTLY A WORK OF ***FICTION***

    “An Historical Critique of Islam’s Beginnings – Jay Smith”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd9lIuUjPs0

    Arguing about the Koran says this or that, or the hadith assert this is that is POINTLESS. It was all concocted well after it was said to have happened in order to advance Arab Imperialism. Starting with Caliph Abd al-Malik decades after Mohammed was said to have lived.

    The satellite images show 100% of all ‘mosques’ constructed between 630 and 725 CE point toward Petra in Jordan. They started pointing to Mecca much, much later. ISLAM IS FICTION.

    • linnte says

      Mar 10, 2016 at 1:10 am

      Ooo! I’d like to see those satellite photos! Too bad they couldn’t be published and sent to every Mosque in the USA! HAHAHA!

  30. Demsci says

    Mar 10, 2016 at 2:16 am

    Thanks Gravenimage for pointing out that the letter between h and j falls away in our posts.

    From my standpoint it could be viewed as a confirmation of Islam (Quran-Hadiths-Sira) being very unclear and multi-interpretable: Everything Worldcitizen1919 writes!

    He doesn’t seem to recognize the 4 schools of Thought; Shafi, Hanafi, Hanbali, Maliki. And rightly so; they are mere human interlopers.

    His Baha’i -version of Islam could be seen by rational people as a huge communication-failure of Islam itself. If the Baha’i could out from it construe such a whole different interpretation from it than the 4 schools of thought, then wasn’t the original to blame?

    For being stupidly unchangeable, for being considered divine, for being at the same time obsolete, incomplete, very contradictive. Especially contradictive are the Medina en Mecca-Parts for instance.

    It comforts me even more to say WorldCitizen1919 shows rational people how ambiguous, multi-interpretable, vague Islam is than it comforts me to say that he lies, whitewashes.

    • gravenimage says

      Mar 10, 2016 at 7:35 pm

      Demsci wrote:

      Thanks Gravenimage for pointing out that the letter between h and j falls away in our posts.
      ………………………

      Good to see you posting, Demsci.

      Thankfully, this glitch seems to be mostly fixed now.

      More:

      From my standpoint it could be viewed as a confirmation of Islam (Quran-Hadiths-Sira) being very unclear and multi-interpretable: Everything Worldcitizen1919 writes!…

      His Baha’i -version of Islam could be seen by rational people as a huge communication-failure of Islam itself…
      ………………………

      Certainly, there are a few things in Islamic texts that are ambiguous–but I think one has to be in a state of willful denial to whitewash the ugly Qur’an and “Prophet” Muhammed as “worldcitizen1919” does.

      In fact, I *wish* Islamic scripture and the model of the “Prophet” was *really* so ambiguous–then more Muslims might actually believe they are supposed to be peaceful.

      There would, in fact, be no problem with “worldcitizen1919’s” interpretation of Islam at all, but for one thing–that since actual pious Muslim are so consistently violent, his apologia presents nothing less than a whitewash of the most egregious evil.

      For instance, if someone wants to “reinterpret” the cult of Baal or try to cast Aztec blood sacrifice in a positive light–as has actually happened, by the way–the only ones really offended are historians like myself. It’s ugly, but it has no real world repercussions, because no one is following these creeds today.

      Would that this were true of Islam.

      Always good to hear from you, and excepting the ongoing fight against Jihad, I hope you are well.

      • Demsci says

        Mar 10, 2016 at 10:39 pm

        Hi, Gravenimage, thanks for this positive and informative message.

        Oh, I can’t have it all my own way, I must be aware of that. Sometimes your arguments as an historian contradict and overrule mine. You seem a very knowledgeable person, so that is no shame for me. I have this growth-attitude.

        As an example, below you write about “authority sources inside Islam” and I stand corrected for saying that there is “no authority in Islam”, when I was conceding that point to WorldCitizen1919.

        There IS an ongoing fight against Jihad, certainly, by me too, I can’t help myself it seems.
        But did you notice Andrew McCarthy’s endorsement of Ted Cruz? And that he wrote; Let us no longer try so much to define what is “True Islam” but instead look at our own principles, values, tenets, ideology?

        Oh, I concede lot’s of points made by you and of others, after reading them carefully, about the facts on the ground and the practiced attitude and actions of sooooo many Muslims around the world.

        But I then reject the notion, a central tenet inside Islam, I believe, that Islam is divine-originated, clear&simple and therefore that there must be only ONE TRUE ISLAM.

        The Bahai came in handy; think about the beauty of it; There was “Divine intervention”; it produced Quran-Hadiths-Sira. And already those were of varying reliance. But after 668 or so the Bahai do not recognize much of the Islam-explainers, the tafsirs, not even the damned 4 schools and Al Azhar. And beautifully so, because we too can point to their human fallibilities.

        It all serves to finally rebut those damned political corrects. Who will never ever concede that there is one, monumental “bad Islam”. But who neither are of the Islamic tenet of “Only one true Islam”.

        Well then, let the Muslims have THAT tenet and both counterjihadists and political corrects the tenet of Multi-interpretability of Islam (of after divine intervention).

        Multi-interpretability-of-Islam-principle opens possibilities PC’s can hardly resist; Yes, there are innocent Muslims, but they cannot deny the guilty ones, because of the irresponsible vagueness and untrustworthyness of Islam’s doctrine. Let’s take it from there.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 11:22 pm

          Some very interesting discussion. Just to try and add some things that we understand about Islam.

          First we accept Muhammad as a Prophet of God and the Quran as the Word of God. The Quran, if you read the transliteration of the English it condemns hadiths. So we do not accept hadiths.

          But after Muhammad’s death we do not accept the Caliphs which are today’s Sunni Islam. Baha’is believe that Sunni Islam is false and not true Islam.

          What we believe is Ali was the true successor and in the Twelve Imams up until the Bab appeared to formally close the Disoensation of Islam. In the Quran it says only for a thousand years will it last. And the last Imam was in 260 A H so the year 1260 AH was the end of Islam which is when the Bab proclaimed Himself to be the Mahdi and the Twelfth Imam.

          So when a Baha’i says He believes in Muhammad he is referring to the essence and purest form not the adulterated corrupted form or what the followers have said or done.

          Today there is no true Islam anymore as it ended in 1844 when the Bab abolished Shari’ah law and created the Babi Faith to supplant a corrupted and outdated Islam.

          To Baha’is, the Sunnis usurped the power of Islam and are not the true successors Muhammad wanted. It was the Umayyads who destroyed the religion of Muhammad followed by the Abbasids and then Ottomans.

          But today all that remains of Islam is a name and a Book although outwardly it exists.

          This is one of their own traditions that is apt to describe to what depths Islam has sunk as is attested by many.

          “The Apostle of God said: `There will come a time for my people when there will remain nothing of the Qur’an except its outward form and nothing of Islam except its name and they will call themselves by this name even though they are the people furthest from it. The mosques will be full of people but they will be empty of right guidance. The religious leaders (Fuqaha) of that day will be the most evil religious leaders under the heavens; sedition and dissension will go out from them and to them will it return.’ ” -ibn Babuya, Thawab u – See more at: http://www.al-qiyamah.org/#sthash.yTqFRrQV.dpuf

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 12:44 am

          And in so doing, you deny the Bible! You can’t have it both ways; the 2 are diametrically opposed to each other and wholly INCOMPATIBLE: your dude notwithstanding because HE’S wrong on that!

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 1:00 am

          The great Princeton theologian of the last century, Dr. Charles Hodge, said something which I have always thought is worth remembering. He said that though the Old Testament is filled with some 333 prophecies concerning the first coming of Christ; in spite of that, nobody got it right. And as you know, they crucified Christ because of a misunderstanding about what the Messiah was really coming to do. And we should because of that be somewhat humbled and modest in our attempts to interpret prophecies concerning the second coming of Christ. It is quite possible that all of us [Christian leaders] are wrong as well.

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 1:13 am

          If NO ONE got it right, no one would have recognized Him as Who He was, and no one would’ve followed Him. Starting with John the Baptist and his mother Elizabeth, He WAS recognized as the promised Messiah! The “religious leaders” rejected Him because He threatened their cushy positions!

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 1:32 am

          I’m talking about th Jesish hierarchy.

          They were the ones who had Jesus crucified.

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 9:10 pm

          Just because the Pharisees and Sadducees got it wrong ( as so MANY of our current “church leaders” are doing today) doesn’t mean NO ONE got it right; or that no one recognized the errors then, or now!

        • gravenimage says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 8:42 pm

          Demsci wrote:

          Oh, I can’t have it all my own way, I must be aware of that. Sometimes your arguments as an historian contradict and overrule mine. You seem a very knowledgeable person, so that is no shame for me. I have this growth-attitude.
          ………………………………

          Demsci, I am certainly not trying to “pull rank” in some way here. Like most of us here, I am still learning about Islam. I just pass along information when I can.

          I learn as much from other posters, in many cases, as I do from the informative stories and analysis here. For instance, I very much appreciate your view of events on the ground in Europe.

          More:

          As an example, below you write about “authority sources inside Islam” and I stand corrected for saying that there is “no authority in Islam”, when I was conceding that point to WorldCitizen1919.
          ………………………………

          “worldcitizen1919” is correct that there is no single central authority in Islam.

          But this is the “no Islamic ‘pope'” argument–as though as a result Muslims were wandering about in a fog of confusion as to what their religion teaches.

          But the fact is that not only are there respected sources such as Al Azhar and the four Sunni schools of Islamic jurisprudence, but disagreements–where they exist at all–between them tend to be slight. For instance, the Hanbali School might find some issue to be mandatory for Muslims, while the Hanafi School considers it to be Sunna (recommended). These differences are rarely great.

          More:

          There IS an ongoing fight against Jihad, certainly, by me too, I can’t help myself it seems.
          ………………………………

          Same with me. I believe defending against JIhad is the greatest fight of our times.

          More:

          But did you notice Andrew McCarthy’s endorsement of Ted Cruz? And that he wrote; Let us no longer try so much to define what is “True Islam” but instead look at our own principles, values, tenets, ideology?
          ………………………………

          Ted Cruz is not perfect in his understanding of Islam, but he is probably the most consistently anti-Jihad of all the presidential candidates. He is still trailing Trump, though, so we’ll have to see how things go.

          And I very much agree with Andrew McCarthy–it is important for us not just to oppose Islam, but to affirm our own values and what it is that we are fighting *for*.

          More:

          But I then reject the notion, a central tenet inside Islam, I believe, that Islam is divine-originated, clear&simple and therefore that there must be only ONE TRUE ISLAM.
          ………………………………

          I don’t think there’s *anything* divine about Islam–but it certainly has been interpreted in a consistently violent manner by its adherents over the centuries.

          More:

          The Bahai came in handy; think about the beauty of it; There was “Divine intervention”; it produced Quran-Hadiths-Sira. And already those were of varying reliance. But after 668 or so the Bahai do not recognize much of the Islam-explainers, the tafsirs, not even the damned 4 schools and Al Azhar. And beautifully so, because we too can point to their human fallibilities.
          ………………………………

          All true. Of course, the Qur’an itself is incredibly violent, and the portrait of the “Prophet” found in its pages is damned ugly.

          Muslims might be marginally less intent on marrying prepubescent schoolgirls and stoning women to death without the Hadith and Sira, but they would still be beating their wives, taking booty and slaves, and beheading Infidels wherever they find us.

          But characters like “worldcitizen1919” will always evade these simple truths.

          More:

          Multi-interpretability-of-Islam-principle opens possibilities PC’s can hardly resist; Yes, there are innocent Muslims, but they cannot deny the guilty ones, because of the irresponsible vagueness and untrustworthyness of Islam’s doctrine. Let’s take it from there.
          ………………………………

          If only Muslims really did interpret their scriptures in a multitude of different ways. Instead, this is something only the “politically correct” cling to, and Taqiyya artists are only too happy to keep feeding it to them.

          Always good to “talk” to you, Demsci.

        • gravenimage says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 9:36 pm

          More noxious twaddle from “worldcitizen1919”:

          Some very interesting discussion. Just to try and add some things that we understand about Islam.

          First we accept Muhammad as a Prophet of God and the Quran as the Word of God. The Quran, if you read the transliteration of the English it condemns hadiths. So we do not accept hadiths.
          ………………………………

          Actually, there is nothing in the Qur’an one way or the other about the Hadiths. It simply does not mention them.

          More:

          But after Muhammad’s death we do not accept the Caliphs which are today’s Sunni Islam. Baha’is believe that Sunni Islam is false and not true Islam.
          ………………………………

          “worldcitizen1919” is contradicting himself here. Previously he has said that the accepts the “Rightly Guided Caliphs”, and has held that he only rejects the Umayyads and their successors.

          As for his rejecting Sunni Islam, this is likely because Baha’i was initially a heretical splinter group of Shia Islam.

          But the fact is that Shia Islam is just as horrifying as is the majority Sunni branch. Shi’ite Iran swears death to Israel and America, sentences Christians to death, and stones women.

          It also savagely persecutes Baha’i–despite all their toadying to Islam.

          More:

          What we believe is Ali was the true successor and in the Twelve Imams up until the Bab appeared to formally close the Disoensation (sic) of Islam.
          ………………………………

          Baha’i hold that the “Bab” was the “Twelfth Imam” that the Ayatollahs are eagerly awaiting.

          More:

          In the Quran it says only for a thousand years will it last. And the last Imam was in 260 A H so the year 1260 AH was the end of Islam which is when the Bab proclaimed Himself to be the Mahdi and the Twelfth Imam.
          ………………………………

          Actually, the Qur’an says *nothing* about Islam having a limited term of applicability, when it is due to be superseded by Baha’i. Indeed, there is nothing more un-Islamic than such an assertion.

          More:

          So when a Baha’i says He believes in Muhammad he is referring to the essence and purest form not the adulterated corrupted form or what the followers have said or done.
          ………………………………

          Never mind that every depiction of the “Prophet” is completely horrifying, including that in the Qur’an.

          More:

          Today there is no true Islam anymore as it ended in 1844 when the Bab abolished Shari’ah law and created the Babi Faith to supplant a corrupted and outdated Islam.
          ………………………………

          If “worldcitizen1919” considers Islam up to 1844 to be valid, then he condones such horrors as the conquest of Spain and India and the bloody fall of Constantinople. *Ugh*..

          More:

          To Baha’is, the Sunnis usurped the power of Islam and are not the true successors Muhammad wanted. It was the Umayyads who destroyed the religion of Muhammad followed by the Abbasids and then Ottomans.
          ………………………………

          Does this mean “worldcitizen1919” condones the bloody Islamic revolution in Iran? After all, this was not done by the Umayyads or the Ottomans…

          More:

          “The Apostle of God said: `There will come a time for my people when there will remain nothing of the Qur’an except its outward form and nothing of Islam except its name and they will call themselves by this name even though they are the people furthest from it. The mosques will be full of people but they will be empty of right guidance. The religious leaders (Fuqaha) of that day will be the most evil religious leaders under the heavens; sedition and dissension will go out from them and to them will it return.’ ” -ibn Babuya, Thawab u – See more at: http://www.al-qiyamah.org/#sthash.yTqFRrQV.dpuf
          ………………………………

          Why is “worldcitizen1919” quoting a Hadith here? He claims he rejects the Hadith. I suppose he only does so when it is convenient…

          Besides, there is absolutely nothing in this that implies that what Muhammed is lamenting is Muslims waging violent Jihad–it is more likely to be the opposite.

          In fact, the Qur’an is full of Muhammed urging his followers to raid, rob, enslave, and mass-murder Infidels.

  31. RonW says

    Mar 10, 2016 at 3:25 am

    Muhammad got some things right? What was that, then?

    Are there any non-abrogated things he got right? Things he didn’t plagiarise from the polytheists, Jews, or Christians?

    • RonW says

      Mar 10, 2016 at 3:26 am

      Grrrr typing too fast for my keyboard…

    • Kepha says

      Mar 10, 2016 at 6:55 pm

      Muhammad got it right that there is one God (although he missed the substance-person distinction), that there is a day of judgment, and that Abraham, Moses, Noah, Jonah, John the Baptist, and Jesus Christ were prophets of God (although he missed that Jesus is priest and king as well, plus Jesus as God Incarnate).

      But, as Jesus’ brother James (Ya’akov) reminds us, even the demons believe that God is one, and tremble.

      • Sandra Lee Smith says

        Mar 11, 2016 at 12:46 am

        And whoever said they were bothered by Muhammad?

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 1:02 am

          Muhammad was prophesied by Jesus. In condemning Muhammad you condemn Jesus but know it not.

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 1:08 am

          NOT in the way you’re implying; only as an enemy of His Father.

    • Mark Swan says

      Mar 14, 2016 at 7:44 am

      worldcitizen1919 says
      March 11, 2016 at 1:32 am
      “I’m talking about th Jesish hierarchy.
      They were the ones who had Jesus crucified.”

      Maybe what the Jews did in Rejecting Christ…Killing Him…This may be It…Yet if We could go back in time and turn the Soldier around…You know the One who shoved a spear into Christ’s Side to finish Him…If we looked at This Soldiers Face…We would Each Clearly See This Was Our Very Own Face…Right There…He died To Liberate All Mankind…That Is Why He Died.

      Judah’s Descendants were promised a Line of Kings…Culminating in The Messiah (savior or liberator)…Mankind needed liberating…Satan held them captive reaching there minds through the spirit in mankind…a very Powerful Spirit Being…This Captor Views all Humans With Rage and Contempt…this captor would be hateful to any people he associated with this liberator.

      Christ was born amongst the Jews…His Mother was One…He was One…The Greatest One…The Lion Of The Tribe of Judah…all Christ’s Apostles Were One…All of The Scriptures were written down exactly as God wanted by the Jews…and they so carefully guarded every detail of these writings…The Christian Church Started and was Headquartered in Jerusalem…Did God make a mistake here or was Christ born exactly where He was Supposed to be.

  32. Ian says

    Mar 10, 2016 at 3:55 am

    It’s certainly a factmthat both accounts can’t be true. However they can both be false. And there is NO evidence to supoort either. Come on people, GROW UP!

  33. Demsci says

    Mar 10, 2016 at 4:58 am

    Y dyd not mean to say that Muhammad got some thyngs right; I don’t know. And of course both accounts are false.

    My poynt ys that yt myght be a huge advantage to know and be able to demonstrate to ratyonal people that there is Yslam; Quran-Hadyths-Syra. And that they are very faulty! Therefore ambyguous,, Multy-ynterpretable. Whyle at the same tyme ymmutable, because Quran-Hadyths-Syra are consydered more or less DyVyNE.

    Thys ys a recype for mysunderstandyng, due to Yslam’s many contradyctyons, yncompleteness, ever-yncreasyng obsoleteness. And source of dyvers, not syngle ynterpretatyons.

    Vyewed lyke that, yt ys only logycal that the Bahay have a totally dyfferent “account”, dyfferent ynterpretatyon. We look at Yslam through the eyes of the 4 schools of thought yn Sunni-Yslam. Because that ys what ys mainstream. But yt may be the case that the ynterpretation of the Bahay ys just as valyd as that of the 4 schools. As we must emphasyze that the 4 schools are NOT DyVyNE.

    And thys ys NOT MOOT, because all Muslims say that yslam i ys god-gyven, clear, therefore mono-ynterpretable.

    What yf all or most Non-Muslims refused to belyeve that? And would say; No, you Muslim can choose between multyple, dyvers, valyd ynterpretatyons of yslam (Quran-Hadyth-Syra), we know that you do NOT have to follow a wydespread anty-Democratic versyon, ynterpretatyon of yslam.

    We know of varyous yslam-ynterpretatyons and when you self-admyttedly or demonstrably belong to the yslam-ynterpretation that hates and opposes us and wyshes to dominate us, then you are not welcome in thys democratyc country”.

    And how can polytycal-correct leftysts, who themselves can see the evydence for Multy-ynterpretabylyty of yslam, and the conseguences of the bad ynterpretations, protest agaynst such a reasonable demand that Muslims choose a fryendly ynterpretation of yslam?

    What wyll yt then communicate to the world yf Muslims refuse to choose? But theyr choyce hynges on our choyce for Multy-ynterpretabylyty or mono-ynterpretabylyty of yslam.

  34. Demsci says

    Mar 10, 2016 at 5:30 am

    Worldcytyzen1919’s message is that Yslam is benefycyal AND mono-ynterpretable. Yt should be only the second part that we object too. Thereby ympyyng that Yslam just as easy can be ynterpreted as detrymental, as Yslamyc State abundantly shows. Yslam therefore can be seen as an yrresponsybly vague relygyon very prone to “”bad ynterpretatyons”. By very many of it’s adherents. Therefore it behooves Muslims to claryfy theyr ynterpretatyon.

    • linnte says

      Mar 10, 2016 at 10:52 am

      Dear Demsci, democratic scientist? Anyway, it is profoundly ridiculous trying to decipher your words. Communication should be simple and easy to understand, else it is not communication! That’s why we all use English, so it can be understood. It’s cute and all, but very childish.

      • gravenimage says

        Mar 10, 2016 at 8:02 pm

        linnte, Demsci was using “y”s for “i”s because there was a weird glitch on this thread that dropped out all of the latter. It seems to be fixed now.

        • Demsci says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 10:20 pm

          Thanks very much Gravenimage, that was indeed what I, foolishly, was trying to do!

        • linnte says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 1:02 am

          Oh! My apologies then Demsci! I use a small Nexus for my internet and don’t seem to run into the computer problems people have. Itnmake complete sense then. I am sorry if I offended you!

  35. Demsci says

    Mar 10, 2016 at 6:16 am

    Think about it, WorldCitizen1919 says “Mohammed is the most misunderstood person in history”.

    Well, how did THAT happen? Could it be because of a very faulty communication of quran-hadiths-Sira to begin with?! Misunderstanding because of miscommunication.

    The Ummayyad’s ruled from # 668 until 750 (in Damascus). That is how far Worldcitizen goes back. And rightly so, because by his standards the DIVINE intervention was already over by then.

    And he himself asserts that the Hadith are of varying reliability. Of course he rejects religious decisions of the Ummayyads, so also of so many Muslim “Explainers” and he can, and we can, because all of them were only humans, with faults and hidden motives.

    My conclusion is that Islam’s very source is very confused and confusing. The vast majority of non-Muslims should no longer believe that there is such a thing as the one true Islam.

    If that is stressed, deceit cannot be so invasive any more, as people will know that there are very diverse interpretations of Islam possible.

    The threat comes from the assertion that there is only one true Islam and that that Islam is somehow beneficial and harmless. That is where Obama and Cameron so hopelessly err.

    It would have been OK for them to say that one of the possible interpretations of Islam is very beneficial, BUT that Islam also has other, very problematic interpretations.

    but no, they had to say that some kind of ONE TRUE ISLAM was beneficial and that the interpretation of Islamic State was false. That is something I would expect from Recep Tayyip Erdogan, but NOT from the leaders of US and UK!

    • worldcitizen1919 says

      Mar 10, 2016 at 6:46 am

      You are correct in stating that there are many harmful interpretations in Islam and that has been a major source of problems. Without promised guidance or an authoritative CENTER to which to turn Islam turns to things such as conflicting hadiths and disagreeing scholars on both the Sunni and Shiah side.

      Islam according to the Quran was only to last 1,000 years before the Day of Jusgement.

      I didn’t just say the Umayyads but after them came the Abbasids and thrn the corrupt Ottomans.

      We now have about 1.6 billion Muslims in the world and they are just people like you and I and are mostly good because they believe in the Quran and Muhammad.

      War has been a sad spectacle with religion if you look at the papal wars, the inquisition and the crusades and added to that Islamic wars and religion is it really worth keeping is the question people should be asking.

      People should put it to all religionist’s that the world is sick and tired of these religious disputes.

      But there is blame on all sides and I blame the followers not her ir Holy Books or Prophets.

      Now is the time to reconcile differences and bury the past.

      • Demsci says

        Mar 10, 2016 at 8:48 am

        The concern people might have with you, Worldcitizen1919, is that you intentionally deceive the world by saying things like 1.6 billion Muslims are good because they believe in Quran and Muhammad.

        And by saying that you blame the followers and not the Holy Book(s). I suppose it is a tenet, a principle, of Bahaís that the Quran, together with Hadiths-Sira are clear and that there is only one true Islam.

        But, you say, regrettably there is no real authoritative center in Islam. And there were many corrupt Khalifs and Islamic governments, since 668 ad, when the only trustworthy Islam-period and explanation ended, because divine intervention had by then ended, long before the 4 schools of thought even were established.

        But we need not have this tenet of Islamic divine infallability. And it seems clear to me that the Quran is very unclear, and contradicting (esp. it’s Mecca and Medina-part) and Islam is even more unreliable with Quran in combination with Hadiths and Sira (as you concur).

        And we read your version of Islam we should Always remind ourselves that that is only one of many possible valid versions of Islam.

        And despite the fact that so many Muslims adhere to the writings of the 4 Sunni schools of thought, they ARE NOT authoritative and you were right about the corruption and fallibility of Ummayyad&Abbasid&Ottoman rulers and all these schools of thought.

        Because it means that even the majority of Muslims still only follow one possible valid version of Islam and no more than that. We are warned nonetheless that a big part of Muslims can be very dangerous because of supremacist violent interpretations of Islam.

        But you, and Irshad Manji, Zuhdi Jasser, Majid Nawaz, Asra Nomani and all sorts of Islam-apologists or “moderate Muslims” and indeed our own presidents and prime ministers

        can no longer deceive us,

        when we deeply realize that many versions of Islam are equally valid, the good AND the bad, precisely because of the monumental clarity-shortcomings of Quran-Hadiths-Sira.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 10:04 am

          Our intention is never to deceive but to look at the positive and work for positive goals like world peace and reconciliation.

          To come together in a spirit of oneness and not to look at what another person believes but to look at our common humanity is always what the Bahai Faith has been about.

          We want our children and youth to inherit a much better world so we want to eliminate things like mistrust and prejudice and try and encourage warmth and friendship between the different cultures faiths and nations.

          We can’t change the past but we can create a better future and this is what Baha’is are focusing on day and night. To try and bring about world peace and eliminate poverty and war and so many other problems arising from prejudices and lack of true spirituality.

          To create virtuous and upright people who wil, welcome all as one, this is our goal.

          That includes all humanity.

        • Western Canadian says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 12:26 pm

          For someone who claims not to intentionally deceive, you sure tell a whole lot of bald faced, outright lies.

      • gravenimage says

        Mar 10, 2016 at 8:26 pm

        “worldcitizen1919” wrote:

        You are correct in stating that there are many harmful interpretations in Islam and that has been a major source of problems. Without promised guidance or an authoritative CENTER to which to turn Islam turns to things such as conflicting hadiths and disagreeing scholars on both the Sunni and Shiah side.
        ………………………………

        “worldcitizen1919” gets several things wrong here.

        Firstly, many faiths lack a central authority–the idea that every creed by Islam has a “Pope” or his equivalent is false.

        Judaism and most sects of Buddhism lack a central authority, as do many Protestant denominations. Yet none of these faiths are engaging in mass murder as a result.

        Moreover, Islam is not as lacking in central authority as “worldcitizen1919” pretends. There are the four orthodox schools of Sunni jurisprudence, which agree on most matters. And then there is Al Azhar university, the most orthodox seat of Sunni learning.

        And most Shia regard the Iranian Ayatollah as the chief authority.

        The problem is that all of these sources of Islamic authority–in line with the texts of Islam and its baleful “Prophet–all enjoin horrific violence.

        More:

        Islam according to the Quran was only to last 1,000 years before the Day of Jusgement (sic).
        ………………………………

        I’ve read the Qur’an several times, and in multiple translations. Cite this Sura if you can.

        The fact is that Muslims consider Islam unchanging and to be followed *for all time*.

        And we have the usual cognitive dissonance from “worldcitizen1919”, in any case–that a) Islam is entirely peaceful and the “Prophet” never fought except defensively; and b) that the Qur’an and “Prophet” were indeed violent, but are not to be followed any longer because they have been superseded by Baha’i.

        You can’t believe both things.

        More:

        I didn’t just say the Umayyads but after them came the Abbasids and thrn (sic) the corrupt Ottomans.
        ………………………………

        It’s the “there never was real Communism” argument.

        And this does not hold water for two reasons–firstly, that Islam was horrifically violent under the “Prophet” and the “Rightly-Guided Caliphs”, as well; and secondly, that if a creed has been “corrupted” for almost thirteen hundred years, that that in and of itself is a serious problem.

        More:

        We now have about 1.6 billion Muslims in the world and they are just people like you and I and are mostly good because they believe in the Quran and Muhammad.
        ………………………………

        Actually, Muslims engage in pedophilia, rape, enslavement, oppression, and mass-murder based on their belief in the Qur’an and the “Prophet”.

        Such Muslims are only “mostly good” if you believe such atrocities are good things.

        More:

        War has been a sad spectacle with religion if you look at the papal wars, the inquisition and the crusades and added to that Islamic wars and religion is it really worth keeping is the question people should be asking.

        People should put it to all religionist’s (sic) that the world is sick and tired of these religious disputes.
        ………………………………

        All Christian and Jewish disputes these days are peaceful and academic.

        Only Muslims are engaging in holy war to impose their ugly faith. But “worldcitizen1919” pretends this is a problem of all “religionist’s”.

        More:

        But there is blame on all sides and I blame the followers not her ir Holy Books or Prophets.
        ………………………………

        Even though the vicious followers of Islam are acting on the model of the Qur’an and “Prophet”…

        More:

        Our intention is never to deceive but to look at the positive and work for positive goals like world peace and reconciliation.

        To come together in a spirit of oneness and not to look at what another person believes but to look at our common humanity…
        ………………………………

        This is great. But pious Muslims will still behead you for it…

        • Mark Swan says

          Mar 13, 2016 at 4:09 pm

          gravenimage…You make all the sense in the world and do it in the right way.

          This WC Has An Ego As Big As The Planet.
          He Is A Muslim Supporter…Enjoying Aggravating.

          He Is Like The Booger That Just Won’t Flick Off Of The Finger.

        • worldcitizen1919 says

          Mar 13, 2016 at 5:59 pm

          Just making a comment and sharing a view. Why do people take it personally? It’s just my understanding I’m sharing. It’s got nothing to do with ego or stuff like that.

          Just giving my understanding as to what is true Islam and and what is not.

          Must we condescend and belittle others just for expressing an opinion?

          Sorry if you guys are offended but I don’t speak or say disparaging things about you just because you have a different view and hope to be treated the same.

  36. worldcitizen1919 says

    Mar 10, 2016 at 8:58 am

    The problem with the author’s view is he automatically assumes that he is right about his understanding of Christ’s station.He won’t say that maybe what if the Christian’s view of the trinity and Christ is wrong.

    Nowhere in the Bible is the word trinity mentioned. It was a doctrine created by the church not the Bible. Human understanding is not perfect. There’s nothing to say that the Catholics view of the trinity might not be wrong or that their views of Jesus as God in the flesh might not be wrong.

    Is it not possible that God sent a Prophet to correct the misinterpretations Christians had? Why is it not possible? All things with God ARE possible. Are we to tell God what He can and can’t do?

    Baha’is believe in progressive revelation and that religions decline and become corrupt and fall into superstition. Then God sends another prophet/messiah to reeducate us and teach us the truth again.

    In my view, although I’m not a Muslim, Muhammad’s revelation was sent down to correct the misconceptions that had been formed by previous religions.

    Christ never said ‘I am God’ Christians glean that from their Bible. We Baha’is believe that Son of God was a title not that Christ was the physical son of God Who is a spirit. God gave a revelation to Jesus but God did not descend physically into Jesus only His Holy Spirit did. The rays of the sun and the sun itself are not the same.

    Christ was a ‘reflection of God like the reflection of the sun in a mirror ‘ but not God Himself. The Quran was sent down to address these superstitious ideas but unfortunately people who feel that they are right and could not be wrong attribute falsehood to the Quran because it does not comply with their own limited understanding.

    Insisting we are true and others are false is the greatest obstacle to truth We are not infallible. So how can we say The Quran is false on this issue. Are we God Himself.

    Whatever happened to open mindedness and humility? Maybe the Quran was right and the Catholics are wrong? It’s just wilful blindness and pride to refuse to be fair and consider there may be some truth in what the Quran says and that perhaps we have been wrong??

    • CogitoErgoSum says

      Mar 10, 2016 at 9:46 am

      Citizen, you might be right. Of course, on the other hand, you might be wrong. God may really exist but then again it’s possible there is no such a thing as God. What we see in this world may be real but it could all be just a dream. Maybe our consciousness survives after death of the body, but consciousness could be an illusion and when we die we are gone forever. I think I am but maybe I don’t really think at all … could be the same for you and everyone else ……. who are just figments of my imagination. I think I’ve covered all the bases there …….. but then again there may be things I have no way of comprehending and I don’t even know what it is I don’t know. Is that any way to life one’s life? Does it even matter? Do you see how a person could drive himself mad contemplating such things and miss the whole point of his own existence? But then again what’s the point? As Homer Simpson would say, “Duuuuuope!

      • worldcitizen1919 says

        Mar 10, 2016 at 10:29 am

        Great post! Enjoyed it thoroughly or did I?

        You made a very, very wise point. It all doesn’t really matter at all.

        I think only a few things really matter and one of them is how we treat each other on this earth we share.

        You can think what you want and believe what you want as long as you and I see each other as fellow human beings we can live in peace. It’s when too much matters that peoole tend to get fanatical and mistreat each other.

        But then, I may be talking just nonsense mightn’t i? Or maybe it’s sense?

        LOL!!

        • Western Canadian says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 12:23 pm

          No, it is merely lies. All you have, is lies.

    • Kepha says

      Mar 10, 2016 at 7:13 pm

      World Citizen, as a representative of the high school social studies teaching profession, I beg your forgiveness for our profession’s enormous swindle on people like you. Our profession has its roots in the New England Unitarianism of the 19th century, and as such promulgates ideas such as Christians and Muslims worship the same God.

      You are mistaken in seeing the doctrine of the Trinity and Jesus’ divinty as foreign to the Bible–and I have lost count of the times I have read through the whole of the Old and New Testaments, whether in English or Chinese. Further, I know the New Testament in the Koine Greek as well.

      We confess that Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man, along with the Scriptures.

      Consider Jesus’ stilling the storm on the Sea of Galilee. His disciples’ reaction is “What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him?” (Mt. 8:27; cf. Mk 4:36-41, Luke 8:22-25). This echoes back to numerous references in the Book of Psalms about YHWH’s control over natural phenomena.

      Or, when Jesus healed the paralytic, first telling him that his sins were forgiven (Mt. 9:1-8; Mk. 2:3-13, Lk. 5:18-26). The Pharisees who witnessed this argued that only God could forgive sins, whereupon Jesus told the paralytic to take up his bed and go home (healing him). What we often forget is that in the context of the time, culture, and religion in which God chose to become incarnate, the Pharisees were right. Jesus thus demonstrated his deity not only in word, but also in deed.

      Jesus also told his apostles to baptize people in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Mt. 28:19). Paul pronounces the benediction, “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.” (II Cor. 13:11).

      For various reasons, I accept the Johannine comma (I John 5:7, Authorized Version and Confraternity Version) as genuine.

      Jesus himself claimed divinity, not only in his acts before men, but also in the shrewd conundrums he posed before numerous interlopers.

      He said, “Before Abraham was, I am” (Jn. 8:58). In this, he echoes God’s revealing his name to Moses from the burning bush in Ex. 3:14).

      • Kepha says

        Mar 10, 2016 at 7:58 pm

        Cont. of my post of 7:13

        Further, if you look at the structure of John’s Gospel (which John Calvin recommended to those who wished to begin the study of the Scriptures; and which, BTW, is the most simple and direct Greek in the NT) shows how the Word of God became flesh and was obedient to the Father, and then pours out the Holy Spirit. It gives quite a picture of the Word descending, “pitching his tent” among us, and then, through the ministry of the Holy Spirit, spreading. World Citizen, I, too, would urge you to put aside Baha’ulla and Shoghi Effendi for a moment, and actually read the Gospel of John.

        Another clear NT witness to the deity of Christ is in the Epistle to the Hebrews, ch. 1. There, the speaker not only calls the Son the express image of God’s person and brightness of his glory, but also applies to the Son texts from the Psalms that are addressed to YHWH. (cf., Ps. Heb. 1:10-13 and Ps. 102:25-27).

        We have as well Paul’s summary of how we are saved: but when the fulness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” There fore you [those in Christ] are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ (Gal. 4:4-7).

        The Risen Jesus declaring himself, in his Revelation to John, to be Alpha and Omega, beginning and end, echo texts referring to YHWH found in the 40’s of Isaiah (and Revelation is self-consciously full of allusions to other parts of the Old and New Testaments).

        I will also note that R. Daniel Boyarin, in _Jewish Gospels_, notes that Jesus’ used of the title “Son of Man” is not a claim of mere humanity, but a claim of being the wonderful firgure found in the visions of Daniel 7: “I saw in the night visions, and behold, there came one like unto a son of man, and he came even to the ancient of days, and they brought him nearbefore him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all the peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.” (Dan. 7:13-14).

        I will note from the Daniel text the following:

        The glorious figure called Son of Man shows God as redeemer identifies with the objects of redemption in taking to himself their humanity.

        A kingdom that is everlasting and shall not be destroyed has to be divine–and can be held by no-one who is not himself God.

        The shibboleth that the doctrine of the Trinity is foreign to the Scriptures and that Jesus never claimed divinity is a myth promulgated by the half-educated and mischievous (especially 19th century German critics and 20th century American popularizers) to mislead the simple.

        World Citizen, I also want the peaceable kingdom. But it is not to be had in ignoring the evil and falsehood woven in too much human religion. The peaceable kingdom can be had only through Jesus the Messiah, to whom ALL power in heaven and on earth has been given (Mt. 28:18).

        Against the modern myth, there is a unifying biblical theology, in which God reveals himself bit by bit to his chosen people in many and various ways through the centuries, until in these last days he has revealed himself by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things–not just one step on the way to someone else who offers us nothing but another dream and a code. I can see in neither Islam nor Baha’i a theology that does justice to what is unfolded in the Bible. It is inconceivable that after God came down in our flesh in fulfillment of centuries of prophecy to work a full and complete redemption for us–even to the atonement offered to divine justice on the cross and the victory over death on the third day–has something more complete or better in a patchwork cobbled together by Seiyyid ‘Ali Muhammad and his followers. Christ is not a reflection of God as the moon reflects the sun, but God sharing and identifying himself with us.

    • gravenimage says

      Mar 10, 2016 at 8:40 pm

      More tosh from “worldcitizen1919”:

      The problem with the author’s view is he automatically assumes that he is right about his understanding of Christ’s station.He won’t say that maybe what if the Christian’s view of the trinity and Christ is wrong.

      Nowhere in the Bible is the word trinity mentioned. It was a doctrine created by the church not the Bible.
      …………………………

      This is not actually the case. The New Testament of the Bible does indeed mention the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

      More:

      Is it not possible that God sent a Prophet to correct the misinterpretations Christians had?
      …………………………

      In other words, why don’t you filthy Christians believe a violent warlord who told you that Jesus was not the Savior, that he died for no one’s sins, that he was not a healer, not a peacemaker, and whose main role in the “Last Days” is to *murder Christians*?

      If you don’t believe this, you must not be properly “open minded”…

      More:

      In my view, although I’m not a Muslim, Muhammad’s revelation was sent down to correct the misconceptions that had been formed by previous religions.
      …………………………

      You Christians believe in a God of love, in a loving Savior, and in the primacy of peace? Well, Muhammed came along to tell you had all of that wrong, wrong, wrong–you filthy Infidels.

      More:

      Insisting we are true and others are false is the greatest obstacle to truth We are not infallible…
      …………………………

      Said by someone who claims that if Christians do not accept the bloody “Prophet” that they are not real Christians…

      More:

      So how can we say The Quran is false on this issue. Are we God Himself.

      Whatever happened to open mindedness and humility? Maybe the Quran was right and the Catholics are wrong? It’s just wilful blindness and pride to refuse to be fair and consider there may be some truth in what the Quran says and that perhaps we have been wrong??
      …………………………

      Will “worldcitizen1919” then show some humility and realize he might be wrong about the Qur’an and the baleful “Prophet”? Please don’t hold your breath…

    • Mark Swan says

      Mar 14, 2016 at 7:28 am

      worldcitizen1919

      You Are Correct I should Not Have Said Anything Insulting About Anyone…Forgive Me.

      Thank You For Reminding Me.

  37. Demsci says

    Mar 10, 2016 at 10:37 am

    The Bahai have lofty goals and I am glad they believe in progress and hope.

    But you worldcitizen1919, nonetheless did behave very arrogant here earlier, when you did not specify that your view of Islam is ONLY ONE OF MANY Valid interpretations of a very faulty Islam. I say this because readers rightly got the impression that you tried to present “the one true Islam” or at least “true Islam”, but your narrative differed enormous from the disastrous practice executed by many of your fellow Muslims. So was perceived as lying and whitewashing. And YOU are responsible because of neglect.

    You made no effort, like I did, to make it clear, that that very faulty Islam by the same token can be interpreted in a way very hostile and detrimental to our nations and our freedom.

    You did illuminate us that the Ummah represents a kind of state, but failed to admit that that could mean that Muslims in the West can well be traitors to the nations they live in, because of uppermost loyalty to the “”Nation of Islam”and thus to Iran for instance.

    And most significantly you did NOT CHOOSE, you seemed to want to remain neutral. But you could have chosen unequivocably for the Democratic system, like that of Israel. And tell us, as Zuhdi Jasser, Majid Nawaz, Irshad Manji, Tarek Fatah do, that you endorse a version of Islam that really sides with the democratic system and the democratic nations.

    And then our reaction could have been; OK, but you can’t deceive us by insisting that your version is the only true Islam. Only that your version is JUST AS LEGITIMATE AS THAT OF THE ENTIRE POPULATION OF Egypt, or Saudi Arabia, Or Iran. That you or we could and should emphasize.

    And also that it means nothing anymore if a Muslim is only ‘” a Muslim”. Neutrality is worthless. Condemning Islamic State is worthless.

    Islam is because of it’s faulty low clarity a downright very irresponsible religion. And members of it need to give clarification which of the many interpretations they adhere too and which side they so choose; either the Democratic or the Totalitarian side.

    I hate it to say: If you are not with us, you are against us. But I think it is high time for all Non-Muslims to realize that that is exactly what is made necessary by this hideously unclear Quran-Hadiths-Sira in combination with the manifest horrible behavior and attitudes of FAR TOO MANY Muslims.

    • worldcitizen1919 says

      Mar 10, 2016 at 11:28 am

      We’re for all humanity. There’s no ‘us and them’ in our vocabulary.

      We are lovers of humanity not interested in conflict or division at all. We seek peace only.

      • Western Canadian says

        Mar 10, 2016 at 12:21 pm

        Yes, the same kind of ‘peace’ that has always resulted when deliberate lies are the basis of your belief system. You are merely a toady for muslim/jihadi murderers, and are just as guilty as they are.

        • Demsci says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 12:29 pm

          Western Canadian, I see you as an ally. Are we good?

        • DFD says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 3:17 pm

          To Western Canadian & Demsci:

          “…. Are we good?”

          No you’re not. You are however very patient and well meaning to respond to that poster by the handle of ‘worldcitizen1919’. I read 2 or 3 of his posts, and can’t be bothered about what else he has to say.

          Well, may the Lord honor you for your patience and perseverance.

        • Demsci says

          Mar 12, 2016 at 7:48 am

          I was not referring to the Democratic party of America, but only to the democratic system operating in America. It is not my contention that America, the Democratic Nation did not fight wars, but only that it did not do so against OTHER Democratic Nations. It seems there is the Exception of the war of 1812. And there are a few cases in doubt.

          About Hitler being elected; OK, he was. But then, with the excuse of fire in the Reichstag, a few months after taking office he made Germany a VERY Un-Democratic country.

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Mar 12, 2016 at 9:24 pm

          Many an “elected” leader has indeed turned tyrannical once in office; we have 1 squatting in our WH illegally now!

      • Demsci says

        Mar 10, 2016 at 12:22 pm

        If you mean what you say, you should lose the prophet Mohammed. He is not helping, only hindering, in the above professed lofty goal.

        A rational human would by now have figured out that there was no divine intervention with MOhammed, that God would only embarrassed himself with such a revelation and that that alone points to it’s untruth.

        But I respect you as a human being and a spiritual serious person, who is prepared to discuss, David

      • Demsci says

        Mar 10, 2016 at 12:33 pm

        What peace?! Don’t you even decide under which political system there is the most peace? I tell you; There has not been 1 democratic nation that had a war with ANOTHER DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY.

        • Kepha says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 8:04 pm

          Er, Demsci, whom I respect, um, as an American–and a former American diplomat as well–I’d really like to believe that Kant’s democratic peace thesis holds water. But we have seen America’s own revolt against Britain (a crowned republic), our own civil war, Switzerland’s Sonderbund war (1848), and the British war against the Boer republics (which ,regardless of their treatment of the Bantu peoples, the Boers were good democrats among themselves). Maybe we have a better chance at world peace with a coterie of republics (hopefully Christian; and including a few that prefer to retain some royal trappings), and a greater threat of war with a coterie of tyrannies. But I am not betting the proverbial farm.

        • Demsci says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 10:04 pm

          About the American Civil war, and while you are at it; NOrthern Ireland, former Yugoslavia. At no point during those conflicts were TWO consistently democratic nations pitted against each other. Although in the American Civil war it is arguable that the south was a democratic state, but I doubt it.

        • Demsci says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 10:08 pm

          Kepha, were all those wars you mention, wars between 2 democratic countries? All your examples are doubtful and perfection is not what we can be after. Scientifically we should try to look at frequency, probability. Not descend into the “excuse of smokers” who can always produce an example of a very old aunt that smoked all her life”.

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Mar 10, 2016 at 10:38 pm

          ‘Scuse me, but this nation hasn’t gone to war except under Democrats in over a century; Lincoln was the last non-Democrat who did so! And Hitler was elected by the German and Austrian people….

        • Demsci says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 4:29 am

          Kepha and Timothy, of course I owe you a concession. And I stand corrected and should rephrase.

          The war between America and England it seems, WAS between 2 established Democratic Nations, and it behooves to not come up with excuses, but admit this “anomaly”.

          To me, the Boers, Confederacy, IRA I consider rebels, not yet established democratic governments. The in-fighting in Yugoslavia I consider civil war, not war between 2 democratic countries.

          But my REAL point remains; Look at the probability, the frequency and the vast majority of wars, in relation to Democratic and Totalitarian countries. You then WILL see a considerable difference.

    • gravenimage says

      Mar 10, 2016 at 8:43 pm

      Demsci wrote:

      The Bahai have lofty goals and I am glad they believe in progress and hope.
      ………………………..

      They certainly are not as bad as the Islam they grew out of. Pretty low standard, though…

  38. DrSique says

    Mar 10, 2016 at 10:48 am

    Well, since the teachings of Mohammed are in direct opposition to those of Jesus, one could certainly infer that the former is, in fact, the anti-Christ. The evil one who so many wait for may have done his work 1500 years ago and, now, he has over a billion followers. This can’t end well for many millions.

  39. Jay Boo says

    Mar 10, 2016 at 12:20 pm

    Islam is based on accumulation of the appearance pious good deeds

    Christianity in contrast says
    There is only one way, — you can’t get voted in

    • gravenimage says

      Mar 10, 2016 at 8:46 pm

      I wish, Jay Boo. Unfortunately, the things that are considered “good deeds” In Islam include marrying children, “Honor Killing” rape victims, raping and enslaving Infidels. waging violent Jihad, funding the same through “Zakat”, and imposing brutal Shari’ah law.

      Islamic ethics are a complete inversion of true morality.

      • Jay Boo says

        Mar 11, 2016 at 2:10 am

        Good comment gravenimage

        except the thing you are contradicting is not what I wrote

        • gravenimage says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 9:45 pm

          I’m not going to argue grace vs works here, Jay Boo–which can be complicated and sometimes contentious. This is not the forum for it.

          The point I was making is just that what are considered “good deeds” in Islam are as a rule anything but.

  40. Charli Main says

    Mar 10, 2016 at 4:22 pm

    Don´t forget necrophile. Mohammed raped his dead aunt. I say raped, because dead women can´t consent to sex and sex without a woman´s consent is rape.

  41. Bamaguje says

    Mar 10, 2016 at 5:35 pm

    A psychopath gangleader cum sadistic warlord.

  42. Omar Kahlid says

    Mar 10, 2016 at 7:33 pm

    You start off by wondering why Catholic’s do not condemn Islam. Did it ever occur to you that Catholicism is itself a false religion. If you take the Bible and catholic teachings side by side they are completely different. My wife was raised catholic, I was raised islamic. To go to a Christ following church was an eye opener for us both. After praying to saints, priests, statues, pictures for decades she found out it was all forbidden. No priest can forgive a single sin or offense. Priests will rule in hell for the damage they have wrought. Islam is the most soul destroying belief on earth. Corrupt to the core. Filled with pedophilia, rape, murder, lying, stealing ALL as core beliefs. Do not give me the tired crap about the Bible being violent and such. Christ followers do that, follow Christ. Old Testament followers may do what they wish. Followers of Christ follow the New Testaments. We do not pray to statues or rape children.

    • Kepha says

      Mar 10, 2016 at 8:16 pm

      Omar, as an Evangelical myself, I welcome you to the family. I’m a refugee from theological liberalism myself, and my wife a refugee from traditional Chinese religion. But I think it’s very important to realize that where we differ from others is in that we recognize ourselves as forgiven sinners–forgiven on the basis of the atonement Christ made for us on the cross. In and of ourselves, we are not better than the rapists, thieves, idolators, pedophiles, blasphemers, murderers, etc.

      Don’t let the scornful and the anti-Semites steal the Old Testament from you. It is the Bible from which the Messiah himself read; and without it, the New Testament does not quite make sense. The ban on Canaan and Amalek are warnings of how depraved man can be–and note that in the context in which these bans are given, Israel is also warned to avoid the abominations which made such temporal judgments necessary. These “scary” parts of the Old Testament were also given strictly for the time when Israel was to inherit the land of Canaan, and do not represent a pattern to be followed by statesmen who would submit to Christ. Indeed, I am just optimistic enough to take Jesus’ Great Commission in Mt. 28 to make disciples as an implicit promise that if we are faithful in our witness, we will never again encounter a nation requiring the treatment the Canaanites were to receive.

      And there is a priest who can forgive sins–Jesus the Messiah himself, who is prophet, priest, and king.

      • Mark Swan says

        Mar 11, 2016 at 6:02 pm

        Kepha You make a valid point in mentioning the old Testament.

        Did God the Father give ancient Israel outdated instructions, which Jesus Christ had to come to change? Or were the ancient Israelites guided by the same One who was born as Jesus Christ? The answer may surprise you! Many Christians try to distinguish the God of the Old Testament from the person of Jesus Christ. Yet your Bible shows that Jesus Christ, who pre-existed with God the Father from eternity, was the One who spoke to Abraham and Moses and gave the Ten Commandments!

        Most religious scholars and commentaries know the clear scriptures.
        But most of them avoid these scriptures like the plague! Or, on the other hand, they may do a little verbal “dance” around them—touching on them in their technical commentaries—but then gliding on to “safer” subjects without fully explaining them one way or the other. Why? Why should professing Christian leaders be afraid of the fact that the One who became Jesus Christ pre-existed with God the Father from eternity? That He was the God of the Old Testament—the God who spoke to Abraham and Moses—the God of David, the One who actually spoke the Ten Commandments? Why be fearful of these clear biblical teachings?

        He was the One who spoke the Ten Commandments from the top of Mount Sinai! WHY Is This Truth So Seldom Acknowledged? When you understand that last sentence in the paragraph above, you can begin to grasp why so many professing priests and ministers shy away from explaining the real origin of Jesus Christ. For they have nearly all been taught that the Ten Commandments were a product of some harsh “God of the Old Testament” and that Jesus somehow “knew better” than His Father. In many cases they say, instead, that somehow the Apostle Paul “knew better” than either Jesus or the Father—and that he did away with God’s law, the Ten Commandments. These misguided men may be sincere. But they are “blinded” (2 Corinthians 4:3–4)—as is the whole world. Remember Jesus’ instruction about the religious leaders of His own day: “Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch” (Matthew 15:14). It is embarrassing—to men who have been taught that the Ten Commandments were “done away”—to admit that it was the One who became Jesus Christ who gave the Ten Commandments in codified form to Moses. He is the One who commanded, God’s great spiritual law.

        If all professing Christians were taught the truth—that the One who became their Savior is the One who gave the Ten Commandments—perhaps their actions would be quite different. The world would surely be a much safer place! All would realize that true Christianity is a law-abiding religion—a way of life based on the great spiritual law of God. They would learn that—although no one is suddenly perfect, and we are commanded to grow in Christ’s character—it is possible to follow Christ’s inspired example through His Spirit within us. As the Apostle Paul wrote: “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me” (Galatians 2:20, KJV). Christians would then understand the beloved Apostle John’s explanation of the very love of God and how it functions: “For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3). They would read with new understanding John’s inspired statement in Revelation 14:12: “Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.” The true Christ revealed clearly in the Bible co-existed with the Father from eternity. He and the Father planned together the creation of mankind. Speaking for Himself and the Father, the Logos—who became Christ—said, “Let Us make man in Our image.” Then, about 4,000 years later, the Logos was willing to give up the indescribable glory, power and majesty He had always shared with the Father. As correctly translated, Paul tells us that Christ “emptied” Himself, “taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father” (Philippians 2:7–11). Jesus said, “I and My Father are one” (John 10:30). So the One who had been totally “one” with God—and who was God—”emptied Himself” to become our Savior. Truly His life is worth more than all of ours combined, because He created not only the human race, but the entire universe as well. Having bought and paid for us by His death on the cross, Christ now doubly “owns” us. He is our Maker. He is our God. He is our Master. Yet after the death of the original Apostles, a great apostasy took over the name of “Christianity.” The clear teachings and examples of Christ and the Apostles began to be altered. The very concept of Christ being a real “Master” began to be undone and permanently altered. He came to be considered a “Lord” who demanded no obedience to the very spiritual law—the Ten Commandments—that He had given mankind. His clear and persistent teaching, “if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17), was now explained away as instruction only for the Jews. So also were dismissed the powerful statements of the Apostle John such as, “He who says, ‘I know Him,’ and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him” (1 John 2:4). These clear statements were explained away as applying only to the “spirit” of the law or to some \new\ commandments of Jesus. But when you study these so called new commandments, they are only magnifications of the Ten Commandments, which Jesus Himself gave on Mount Sinai! And again, “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever” (Hebrews 13:8). May God help all of you who read this to understand and to respond to the true Jesus Christ of the Bible. As He said, “Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46).

        The One who existed with the Father from eternity—is the One who will guide you, strengthen you and bless you if you determine to do what He says and worship Him not only as Savior, but as Lord and Master now and forever…He will join His mind with Yours and you can learn and practice keeping the perfect law of God.

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 7:04 pm

          Great post and spot on, Biblically speaking! “Before Abraham was, I Am” and that was spoken to the Pharisees! Then there was that bit about coming to fulfill, NOT destroy, the Law, also spoken to the Pharisees. He can ONLY BE the very Person Who met Moses on that mountain; and Abraham, on the way to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, among other OT appearances! Otherwise, the whole thing is a lie. But it’s NOT a lie!

    • gravenimage says

      Mar 10, 2016 at 8:51 pm

      Omar, whatever you might think of Catholicism doctrinally, it is not Catholics who are waging violent Jihad all over the world, nor trying to impose their faith at the point of a sword.

      Robert Spencer is himself a devout Catholic. Do you *really* regard him no differently than you would a homicidal Jihadist?

      Besides, it is not just Catholics who are engaged in foolish “interfaith dialogue” with violent Muslims–many Protestants are, as well. Catholics do not have a monopoly on clueless dhimmitude.

      Likewise, there are people of all Christian denominations who very much *do* understand the threat of Jihad.

      • Mark Swan says

        Mar 11, 2016 at 6:16 pm

        Absolutely Correct gravenimage.

        • gravenimage says

          Mar 11, 2016 at 9:47 pm

          Thanks, Mark.

        • Mark Swan says

          Mar 12, 2016 at 8:43 am

          Sandra Lee Smith says
          March 11, 2016 at 7:04 pm

          You Are Right…The Truth Can Not Be A Lie.

  43. Sandra Lee Smith says

    Mar 10, 2016 at 8:33 pm

    None; but later biographies do attribute many to him.

  44. Susan says

    Mar 10, 2016 at 8:40 pm

    Well said, Glenn!!!

  45. A.Das says

    Mar 10, 2016 at 11:39 pm

    Please read our ancient hindu text Bhavisya Puran it tells everything about those religions that came after Hinduism…

  46. Ivan Erickson says

    Mar 11, 2016 at 12:06 am

    ICE
    I have posted the following comment a few times in the past regarding Christianity & the Islamic sect, but I will do so again for those of you whom have not read this, for my premises are irrefutable:

    SIX IRREFUTABLE PREMISES ON THE CHRISTIAN VS THE ISLAMIC FAITHS:
    1. The first important premise to address is regarding the belief of the beloved people of the Islam faith – as well as by many people of other faiths – that professes that Allah is the same god as the God of the Jews and the Christians. To prove as succinctly as possible that this is not the Truth, I will ask you the following question, Reverend Ann, that you may seek the answers to this falsity in the heart of your own soul: If Allah is the same god as the One True God of the Christians and the Jews, why does Allah state repeatedly throughout the Koran that Jesus is not the Only Begotten Son of God, when God Himself prophesied 60 times and mentioned some 300 times in the Old Testament the future coming of a Messiah, a Suffering Servant, His Son, who would die on the cross for the salvation of all mankind? Would God prophesy the coming of His Son, a Messiah and Savior, only to deny Him through Mohammed, who professed to speak for Allah? Would this not make God a liar? Since God is Truth, who then is the liar?
    2. The second premise to address is the Islam belief that Jesus Christ was only a prophet – that He was not deity or the only Begotten Son of God. In 1 John, 2:18-23 we read: “Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that the antichrist was coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. Thus we know this is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number. But you have the anointing that comes from the holy one, and you all have knowledge. I write to you not because you do not know the truth but because you do, and because every lie is alien to the truth. Who is the liar? Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies the Father and the Son, this is the antichrist. No one who denies the Son has the Father, but whoever confesses the Son has the Father as well.”i
    In 1 John 4, 1-3 we read: “Beloved, do not trust every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they belong to God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can know the Spirit of God: every spirit that acknowledges Jesus Christ come in the flesh belongs to God, and every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus does not belong to God. This is the spirit of the antichrist that, as you heard, is to come, but in fact is already in the world.”ii
    Also, Jesus Christ professed many times in the Gospel that He was the Messiah, the only Son of God the Father. If the Islam faithful sincerely believes that Jesus was a Prophet, how can they at the same time not believe that He was God’s Son? – For a prophet is one who speaks the Truth for God, you see.
    3. The third premise that I wish to address is the Islam belief that Mohammed was the final prophet of Allah, and that he was inspired through the angel Gabriel to change God’s previous words of the Holy Bible in order to bring mankind His final words. After Mohammed’s death, Mohammed’s words were later written in their book called the Koran. The Koran, as you know, professes to contain four God-inspired books: the Torah of Moses; the Zabur (Psalms of David); the Injil (Gospel) of Jesus; and the Koran. In changing, deleting and adding to the Inspired words of God’s Holy Bible, Mohammed and his followers committed a grievous sin against God! In Revelation 22:18, 19 we read: “I warn everyone who hears the prophetic words in this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words in this prophetic book, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city described in this book.”iii Mohammed and his cohorts did not merely add to or take away God’s words of His prophetic Book! They deleted the entire Book of Revelation, as well as most of the other Holy Books of the Bible! I sincerely believe that Jesus was stating that we must not add to, delete, or to desecrate any of the Holy words of the entire Old and New Testaments of the Bible, for He, being the Son of God, certainly knew that Revelation was the last Book of the Bible and was most likely speaking of the entire Bible as “The Book.” And please do not counter by rationalizing that the God changed His own laws and words via the alleged angel Gabriel and Mohammed! Jesus Christ, speaking for God, knew that the Islams, Mormons, and people of other false faiths would attempt to change, delete, or to deny God’s laws, words and Scripture in the future! This is why Jesus stated emphatically that He is the end of the law!
    4. The fourth premise that I will address is regarding the alleged angel Gabriel who purportedly instilled Mohammed with Allah’s messages given to him over an approximate 22-year period with the words that later became the Koran. The alleged angel Gabriel repeatedly denied that Jesus was the Son of God! However, the true angel Gabriel, speaking to Mary the Mother of Jesus in Luke, 1:31-33 states the following: “‘Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus. He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father, and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.’”iv God, in His infinite wisdom, does not have to give two of His angels the same name – He surely has given each of them a personal, special name, as He will do for all those whom enter God’s kingdom. So, how then can one reputed angel Gabriel of the Koran deny repeatedly that Jesus is God’s Son, when the true angel Gabriel that appeared over 5 centuries earlier had called Jesus “Son of the Most High”?
    5. The fifth premise is regarding the utilization by Mohammed and subsequently by the entire Islamic faithful of: the God of the Jews and the Christians; Abraham; the prophets; and a semblance of the One True God’s Holy Scripture in the Koran. Why did not the author of the Koran use his own text and credos, as the Hindus and the Buddhists have done? The reason that the author of the Koran utilized this ploy was so that a semblance of Truth, or a certain credence and association would be portrayed to the Muslim-Islam’s, in order that from that time onward they may more easily be duped and led away from the Truth and the Light when they read or heard the words of the Koran.
    6. The sixth premise, Reverend Ann, is regarding your sincere belief that you can be an adherent of both the Christian and the Islam faiths. This, as you were made aware of in the above premises, is impossible, as the two religions are diametrically opposed to one another. For you must understand that the Christian faith stems from the words of Truth and Light of the One True God who Lives – the One Whom has proven to be the One True God; for He is the only God who is able to prophesy infallibly those many things to come throughout the history of mankind and even until the end of the age. The Islam faith, on the other hand, stems from the antichrist, of which was revealed to you above from the words of God in 1 John. Also, in 1 Corinthians, 10:14-22 we read: “Therefore, my beloved, avoid idolatry. I am speaking as to a sensible people; judge for yourselves what I am saying. The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? Because the loaf of bread is one, we, though many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf.
    Look at Israel according to the flesh; are not those who eat the sacrifices participants in the altar? So what am I saying? That meat sacrificed to idols is anything? Or that an idol is anything? No, I mean that what they sacrifice, [they sacrifice] to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to become participants with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and also the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and of the table of demons. Or are we provoking the Lord to jealous anger? Are we stronger than he?”v

    May the Beloved One True God Who Lives continue to bless and to lead all people of all races, ethnicity’s, sects, faiths & religion to the Truth and the Life.

    Ivan Erickson

  47. David says

    Mar 11, 2016 at 10:07 am

    Even before I began my “retirement”, I was an avid collector of old rare or out of print books. And, since I did have the good fortune to be raised in a Christian home, I’ve always been interested in the Christian Church, it’s teachings and it’s history.
    In many, many older books, written over the past three centuries by biblical scholars, the mo hammadan “religion” is universally referred to as “Satan’s Masterwork”, “Satan’s Counterfeit” or simply as “a work of the Dark Prince himself”.
    This is history! Historians, Scholars, theologians and even Popes have know about and spoken openly about the islamic religion and it’s foul and evil teachings for hundreds of years.
    So why do they now, after knowing and speaking this truth for so long, suddenly and without president, reverse course and start talking about embracing this foul stench! Or somehow finding a common ground with them?
    I know what the trained and logical minds of the past would say. There can be only two explanations: either they have lost all grip on reality OR they are under the influence of some unseen, evil force. In the past, this evil would undoubtedly be called/named SATAN!

    • Sandra Lee Smith says

      Mar 11, 2016 at 6:38 pm

      And it still is called that, although fewer today acknowledge his existence, which makes it easier for him to enslave them in his evil snares. Popes once sent millions to the ME to fight them because they were kidnapping and murdering pilgrims to the holy lands; kings did likewise all over Europe for much the same reasons we see happening there now. Even America has fought them in the past (Barbary Coast wars) for the same reason popes did; they were pirating our ships and kidnapping or killing the crews and passengers, claiming it was their right, with which our Founders took umbrage. But when you cast Yhwh God out of the public sphere and stop believing in Him, it’s natural you also cease to believe in HIs arch enemy, thus making it far easier for that one to assume control.

  48. ballotcode says

    Mar 11, 2016 at 11:41 am

    If I or an angel brings another gospel other than that that has been preached, it is to be accursed.
    ^^^Paraphrase^^^
    Mohamed’s “gospel” is “another gospel” [denying Jesus’ divinity] and was delivered by an “angel”.
    Prescriptively described as being accursed.

  49. Truth Seeker says

    Mar 11, 2016 at 12:58 pm

    Muhammad was the Prophet of Allah, not of God. Muslims believe, Allah is above all gods, though for eye wash they say Allah is the Arabic Word for God.
    Prophets of God were Simple & Humble. God performed Miracles also through them to show they are Real Prophets.
    Allah’s prophet was Proud and Demanding Respect and Sycophancy. No Miracle, but Supremacisitic Activity of Butchering of Innocents in Large Numbers by his Fans. That is to show the Might of Allah. This killing is going on today also.

  50. Mubarak says

    Mar 12, 2016 at 6:40 am

    The way for Islam to Europe and USA has for a long time been under construction and solidly prepared. The door and entrance for Islam to the West is threefold: Backsliding and lukewarm Christians, feminism and homosexualism. The two latter radical isms relate to each other as sunshine to drought: the more you have of the former the more you get of the latter and the result is infertility and barrenness.
    These three unfortunate and powerfully executive bodies in collaboration create a vacuum into which Islam and ultimately islamism, with the celebration of its false prophet, will be sucked and prevail, and that will be “The end of the world as we know it”, as Mark Steyn puts it.
    JIHAD WATCH will be exactly what is implied by that name: spectator to the decline and defeat of the West.

    • dumbledoresarmy says

      Mar 12, 2016 at 7:51 am

      Defeatism and despair.

      Stop feeding the Dementors.

      If you’re not a muslim attempting to demoralise, but a denizen of the free Infidel world who is allowing himself to wallow in and promote despair (one of the Seven Deadly Sins) please go away and read G K Chesterton, “The Everlasting Man”, the chapter entitled “The Five Deaths of the Faith”.

      Christendom – all Christendom east and west lives (like the House of Israel before it and still also now) under the sign of the Phoenix, the sign of the bush that burns yet is not consumed.

      • gravenimage says

        Mar 12, 2016 at 6:20 pm

        Mubarak has done this before, Dumbledore’s Army.

        Here he is, claiming that the New Year’s Eve rape victims in Cologne and elsewhere *deserved it* because one woman protesting the rapes the next day did so in the nude:

        http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/02/germany-muslim-shouts-inshallah-as-he-rapes-student-then-asks-her-if-she-enjoyed-it#comment-1378588

        I’m not personally a big fan of nude protest, which I consider silly at best and inappropriate at worst–but his considering this worse than *mass rape* is utterly grotesque.

        And, of course, the nude protester was not the cause of this Taharrush in any case, since the protest was a *response* to mass rape.

        In fact he *lauds* the Muslim rapists, saying “sure there will be collateral damage, but I think it is worth paying that price”–in other words, that the destruction of the West is a *good thing*.

        Here’s more nastiness from another thread, where he asserts that the presence of the nude protester is *worse* than mass rape:

        http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/02/prosecutor-overwhelming-majority-of-cologne-new-years-eve-sex-assault-suspects-are-refugees/comment-page-1#comment-1379853

        He also claims that the victims should be glad that the rapists showed them attention.

        He says “Thank God” for the Muslim invasion into Europe–and that they will create a “beautiful place”, and that since there are risque ads and gay parades that Westerners deserve to lose their freedom.

        Given his name and his vile views–his vague criticism of “Islamism” notwithstanding–it seems most likely to me that Mubarak is another supremacist Muslim.

        • Mubarak says

          Mar 15, 2016 at 2:38 am

          Islam in the West is a culture that asserts itself on the expense of an emasculated and decadent civilization. Islam is the nemesis/bane/curse of the West. Get used to it! And if you can’t beat them, join them!
          Scandinavia is probably the first region in the world that will succumb to Islam and the explanation is, that men have been totally extinguished here and replaced by women of both sexes. Scandinavia is run and ruled by women, and the USA have paid tribute to one of the Nordic countries – Denmark – as the leading proponent of the decline by appointing a homosexual ambassador to this country of prophetic, Shakespearian rottenness. Why didn’t the US send this ambassador and his dog to Saudi Arabia, do you think?
          Ok, I am just telling you, and there is no need to be angry with me for telling the truth. – And please, “gravenimmage”, could you be my mouthpiece again and through your expository method explain to the readers, who I am and what I really mean by this paragraph? Thank you!

        • Sandra Lee Smith says

          Mar 15, 2016 at 2:45 am

          Can’t speak for graven image or others, but I personally will NEVER join your bully cult of adult-child savages who have neither morality nor civility to recommend them, only hate and violence, like the deity and “prophet” you follow! I belong to Yhwh and His Mashiach, Yeshua, and to Them alone will I stand loyal to my last breath!

        • linnte says

          Mar 15, 2016 at 3:57 am

          I got news for you buster! Over my dead body will Islam get control of this country! I for one will shoot your freeking head right off your pathetic shoulders! And I know HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of people who will do the same! I am no Christian who turns the other cheek to Islam! In fact, as frustrated and PISSED I am as Europe and Britain fall to Sharia it would get my ya yahs OUT to pop a few off right now, and I am a dead eye! So close your eyes Christians, cuz I say to MUbarak…..fuck you!

        • Mubarak says

          Mar 15, 2016 at 6:39 am

          You said it yourself, linnte: Over your dead body Islam will get control over this country!
          But “Islam” will probably be happy with that bargain.

        • linnte says

          Mar 15, 2016 at 1:18 pm

          Oh and you think we will not be happy to accommodate also? More like gleeful! Hahahaha! A people who are fighting for their freedom are much more dangerous than the people attempting domination. Especially when the freedom fighters are the majority! Just think 1776 MUbarak, or 1868, or 1945! Our great diversity and genetic strength has not been weekend by centuries of marriage to our cousin’s!

        • Mark Swan says

          Mar 17, 2016 at 5:13 pm

          I Read Your Posts. Thanks for the warning Mubarak.

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