The mainstream media and establishment counter-terror analysts are indefatigably determined to obscure the connection between Islam and terrorism, and to support their sagging claims that jihad terrorists are not devout and knowledgeable Muslims, and that jihad terror has nothing to do with Islam. And so here we learn that “the one area of education that was noticeably lacking” among Islamic State jihadis was “in Islamic law, or Sharia.” The Independent draws this conclusion from the fact that “of those who answered a question on the level of their religious knowledge, 70 per cent described it as ‘basic’, while those citing greater expertise were mainly Saudis, Egyptians, Tunisians and Indonesians.”
How much Islamic knowledge is “basic”? The Independent doesn’t tell us. But I would expect that these jihadis with a “basic” knowledge of Islamic law know far more about it than, say, the editors of the Independent, or David Cameron, or John Kerry, or Pope Francis, or any of the other non-Muslim imams who constantly assure us that Islam teaches peace. The Independent, however, has decided that a “basic” knowledge of Islam is equivalent to no knowledge at all, or worse, to misunderstanding the true, peaceful teachings of the Religion of Peace, as it goes on to claim that “the finding supports analysts’ assertions that Isis has twisted the Quran to serve its purposes, introducing brutal and ‘un-Islamic’ punishments in its territories.” So apparently as far as the Independent is concerned, a child with a basic understanding of the alphabet will mistake numbers for letters and take Z for the first letter of the series.
Then the Independent informs us that “an open letter signed by more than 100 Muslim scholars accused Isis of deliberately misinterpreting the holy book in 2014.” So apparently now a “basic” knowledge of Islam is equivalent to “deliberately misinterpreting” it, as if our hypothetical elementary schoolchild with a basic knowledge of the alphabet placed Z first out of sheer malice. The Independent continues: “‘It is forbidden in Islam to oversimplify Sharia matters and ignore established Islamic sciences,’ said the missive directed at the group’s leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. ‘One cannot “cherry-pick” Quranic verses for legal arguments without considering the entire Quran and Hadith.'” In reality, as I demonstrated in detail here and here, that “missive” was guilty of quite a bit of cherry-picking itself, and in the course of building a case against the Islamic State for Western non-Muslim consumption, ended up endorsing the concepts of jihad, the caliphate, dhimmitude, Sharia supremacism, and more. Hardly as “moderate” as the Independent would have you believe.
The reality is this: the Islamic State isn’t ignorant of the Qur’an at all. It quotes it frequently: in threats to blow up the White House and conquer Rome and Spain; in explaining its priorities in the nations it is targeting in jihad; in preaching to Christians after collecting the jizya (a Qur’an-based tax, cf. Qur’an 9:29); in justifying the execution of accused spies; and in its various videos. It has also awarded $10,000 prizes and sex slaves in Qur’an memorization contests. One of its underground lairs was found littered with weapons and copies of the Qur’an. Children in the Islamic State study the Qur’an and get weapons training. One Malaysian Muslim said that the Qur’an led him to join the Islamic State. A Muslima in the U.S. promoted the Islamic State by quoting the Qur’an. An Islamic State propagandist’s parents said of him: “Our son is a devout Muslim. He had learnt the Quran by heart.” A Muslim politician from Jordan said that the Islamic State’s “doctrine stems from the Qur’an and Sunnah.”
“Isis documents leak reveals profile of average militant as young, well-educated but with only ‘basic’ knowledge of Islamic law,” by Lizzie Dearden, Independent, April 21, 2016 (thanks to Max Abrahms):
Male, 26, single, quite well-educated but not an expert on the Quran – this is the profile of an average fighter joining Isis.
Analysis of thousands of entry documents leaked from the terrorist group has provided vital new insight into the background and expertise of its international jihadists.
The US military’s Combating Terrorism Center (CTC) said all evidence pointed to the cache being genuine, exposing personal details of 4,188 militants who joined Isis in 2013 and 2014.
“The importance of this data for understanding the Islamic State and, in particular, the foreign fighter flow, cannot be overstated,” analysts said, hailing an important step in fathoming the group’s motivations and techniques.
A unique personnel form exists for each individual, containing their real and “war” names, ages, education level, “jihad experience”, nationalities and numerous other details.
Each recruit was also asked whether they wanted to be a fighter, istishhadi (suicide bomber), or inghimasi (suicide fighter), with the overwhelming majority choosing the former.
Analysis by the CTC, an academic institution at the United States Military Academy, revealed citizens of 77 countries in Isis ranks, with the highest number identifying themselves as Saudi Arabian.
There were 26 British fighters on the list, far below the numbers from Germany and France in the files, which included names of known UK militants and three of the Paris attackers.
But the figure doubled to 57 for those saying they had been resident in the UK before travelling to Isis territories in Syria, suggesting that many of the men may have had foreign or dual nationalities.
The average year of birth was 1987, making the typical recruit between 26 and 27 years old at the time of signing up.
Ages varied hugely by country, with the younger fighters tending to be from Western nations including the UK, Denmark, Germany, Belgium, Canada and Australia, compared to older militants from the Middle East, North Africa, Russia and China with experience fighting in other conflicts.
“The average age of Western fighters is lower than that of non-Westerners,” the CTC noted.
“This suggests the need for tailored and nuanced prevention, intervention, and reintegration programmes.”
Another startling finding was the level of education listed, with most of the recruits saying they had completed secondary school and many listing higher education and university degrees.
The report described the group as “generally well educated” and said that although some of the fighters recorded no formal education, a roughly equal number held advanced degrees.
PhDs in economics, computer science, English, physiology and teaching were among those listed, with Western fighters being more highly educated on average.
The one area of education that was noticeably lacking, however, was that in Islamic law, or Sharia.
Of those who answered a question on the level of their religious knowledge, 70 per cent described it as “basic”, while those citing greater expertise were mainly Saudis, Egyptians, Tunisians and Indonesians.
The finding supports analysts’ assertions that Isis has twisted the Quran to serve its purposes, introducing brutal and “un-Islamic” punishments in its territories.
An open letter signed by more than 100 Muslim scholars accused Isis of deliberately misinterpreting the holy book in 2014.
“It is forbidden in Islam to oversimplify Sharia matters and ignore established Islamic sciences,” said the missive directed at the group’s leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.
“One cannot ‘cherry-pick’ Quranic verses for legal arguments without considering the entire Quran and Hadith.”…

mortimer says
If deeper study of the Koran leads to slack enthusiasm for suicide-bombing, could it possibly be that the students LOSE THEIR FAITH when exposed to the actual meanings in the Koran? I believe that is the case.
There are about one million mullahs in the world who have all memorized the Koran. THEY are not blowing themselves up, but encouraging others to do so. Why this inconsistency?
I believe that those who spend a lot of time studying the Koran come independently to the conclusion that the Koran is a man-made document, due to the many contradictions, inconsistencies, anomalies, errors and embarrassingly incompetent level of Arabic language that the Koran displays. No one can study the Koran without running straight into the shocking errors and absurdities contained in it. This must lead to an evitable loss of faith in the supposed divine origin of the Koran…at least to a deep cognitive dissonance that can never be pushed away. Once alerted to passages in the Koran that are erroneous and absurd, those conclusions are reawakened every time the passages are re-read.
Jay Boo says
A bit over eager to show off, mortimer?
This article is saying the opposite, that Muslims in ISIS are devout.
You are contradicting Robert Spencer and agreeing with the Independent and the mainstream media and establishment counter-terror analysts.
mortimer says
Take English Comprehension 101. Blah, blah.
Jay Boo says
No effective reply
Resort to an evasive counter attack
Admit it mort — own up to it
YOU GOT CAUGHT
Didn’t you even read the recent JW article below as well
Fessitude says
mortimer is not exactly agreeing with The Independent; he’s doing something more subtle — basically coming to the same conclusion, but condemning the Koran at the same time. He’s thus managing the amazing feat of salvaging Muslims while condemning Islam; and isn’t that after all the goal of the Counter-Jihad Mainstream…? It certainly seems so to me.
The full horror, “the full catastrophe” (to invoke Zorba the Greek) to which a rational appraisal of the mountains of data about Islam would lead us (the relatively few of us still in the West willing and moved to think outside the PC MC Box), is too drastic to contemplate, for various reasons – the sheer magnitude, the sheer proportions, the sheer numbers involved, and thus the massive affront and challenge to our sense of Western decency & conscience that believes, deep down, in such ethical axioms as “innocent until proven guilty” and “give the benefit of the doubt” and the broader virtue of openness and fairness to those who are different from us (a virtue that has evolved in modern times into a complex bundle adhering to, and difficult sometimes to disentangle from, the unreasonable if not neurotic phobia about being “bigoted” and “racist”). Contrary to the stereotype that seems to be insinuated or indulged by the Western mainstream, individuals of the Counter-Jihad are not all redneck Neanderthals who lurched out of a swamp in the Deep South (or their counterparts in other countries – example the skinhead soccer hooligan hoodie of England). We are by and large relatively decent and intelligent people and we didn’t come from Neptune; we grew out of the same cultural soil as our fellow Westerners who, maddeningly to us sometimes, still don’t get it about Islam. We thus share with our more mainstream Western fellows those ethical axioms I listed above and, to the extent that our hearts and minds remain enmeshed with that complex bundle that mushes & mangles together a rational antipathy to actual racism, with the self-righteous ethical narcissism of Reverse Racist race card, we recoil at the prospect of that vertiginous cliff-edge of condemning so many people, and so many who are “ethnic”. So many of us would much rather try to take comfort in variations on a theme of the mantra “I hate Islam, I don’t hate Muslims” (as if hate had anything to do with it, with apologies to Tina Turner, PBUH…).
From many comments I’ve seen from Mortimer over the years (some of which have startled me with glimpses of vivid hues of PC MC smack dab in a Counter-Jihad context), he certainly seems to be a type of Counter-Jihadist who, let us say, hasn’t worked out how to disentangle the rational ethical axioms from the irrational ones still stuck to a bigotry-phobia. And so mortimer’s own personal project, it seems, has been to try to save Muslims from the increasing damnation their Islam threatens to tar them with, the more he has learned to his growing alarm just how evil and deadly and fanatical their Islam is.
This is the dilemma I’ve mentioned elsewhere, that I’m convinced bedevils most Westerners (and, therefore, most Western Counter-Jihadists) – namely a twin phobia: 1) a fear of Muslims, and 2) a fear of one’s own self and what one might logically do after fully digesting the indigestible horror of #1. A reasonable navigation out of this dilemma seems to elude a certain number of Counter-Jihad individuals who feel obliged for some reason to assume that #2 compels them to round up all Brown People and put them in concentration camps on the slippery slope to genociding them; as though we had no other options.
Jay Boo says
This is rich
Unbelievable contortions — even from the master contortionist Fessitude/Lemon Lime/Hesperado/ Voegy.
Mortimer must really be in over his head for Fesse of all people to come to his rescue.
This as I recall is the same commenter who ignores troll attacks on anti-jihadi commenters and whined that no one had his back yet had the nerve to comment all around a blistering offensive troll attack on Saleem Smith and then instead of at least having the sense to not say anything rather than a load of BS chimed in instead as if he was in there with support when he wrote a pathetic imitation. saying “Hi Saleem how are you doing, I hear you have a website, —- me too.”
Angemon says
“From many comments I’ve seen from Mortimer over the years …
And so mortimer’s own personal project, it seems, …”
I thought you stopped reading mortimer’s posts many moons ago, Fessitude. On what grounds are you doing your dime-store analysis of mortimer’s posts and his alleged personal project?
Jay Boo says
In addition mort
A few articles back
Brookings touts study claiming that even a-basic knowledge of Islam can dampen-support for Islamist militant-groups
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/04/brookings-touts-study-claiming-that-even-a-basic-knowledge-of-islam-can-dampen-support-for-islamist-militant-groups
jihad3tracker says
In my humble opinion, you have a solid line of reasoning, Mortimer. I would add this:
if a man has the drive to become a mullah — with demands on time and other obligations (as well as positive aspects, of course) — then he probably has significantly more active brain cells than the average Muslim.
And with a boosted IQ comes an elevated sense of entitlement, so there is very little chance he will commit suicide to honor a set of edicts produced not by the Creator, but emanating from the mind of a cunning Arab former camel-tender.
Jay Boo says
Who are you going to believe jihad3tracker?
Robert Spenser or mortimer
From the article:
“The reality is this: the Islamic State isn’t ignorant of the Qur’an at all. It quotes it frequently:”
jihad3tracker says
Hello Jay — I was not referring to the Islamic State in that comment about mullahs — but rather those in cities, towns, villages, and mud clubhouses scattered around the world. ISIS CERTAINLY KNOWS THE QUR’AN THOROUGHLY, as those mullahs in other places listed above also do.
I think there is a distinction that has been unstated among our various comments, and that omission is causing us to think we are disagreeing on the point Robert makes: knowledge of the Qur’an DOES make one able to wage jihad, yet not NECESSARILY taking action of that kind.
Mortimer and I are writing about Islam’s experts who refuse to devoutly engage in all of its commands. Such an absence of obedience can be due to cynicism regarding its actual source, or trouble reconciling contradictory suras, a combination of both, or something else.
At this point, I will somersault out of participation in the conversation, because of pressing work obligations, but appear out of nowhere like a mischievous jinn at another topic, ready to rhetorically arm-wrestle the worthy contenders who claim membership in this rough breed of muscle-bound men and gorgeous women.
.
Fessitude says
That was one of the typical morterisms that I’ve grown accustomed to bumping into whenever I decide not to bypass another mortimer comment; to wit:
“There are about one million mullahs in the world who have all memorized the Koran. THEY are not blowing themselves up, but encouraging others to do so. Why this inconsistency?
“I believe that those who spend a lot of time studying the Koran come independently to the conclusion that the Koran is a man-made document…”
The preposterousness of this may not leap out at the casual reader who hasn’t thought about what mortimer is actually saying here – that a million Mullahs — hailing from some 80 countries all over the world, we must remember, not just all concentrated in the Arabian desert or the caves of Afghanistan – have all come to the conclusion from a closer study of the Koran to reject the Koran as the divine guidance Islam dictates. And on what basis does mortimer conclude this? Merely from the ostensible fact that they are not blowing themselves up. He has thus at that point in his thought process apparently not thought to consider other explanations for this ostensible fact, rather than to leap to a conclusion that would exonerate them – for example, that Islam is a vast army, and that in an army you need commanders as well as foot soldiers, and that commanders don’t go off half-cocked into battle while the army still has strategizing to do (not to mention that there are other functions of the army of Islam, including rallying the troops which in Islam’s fusion of religion & state means basically preaching & sermonizing, for “commanders” in Islam are thus both religious and military). But, as my previous comment above explored, it seems mortimer’s need to find a way to salvage Muslims from our rational condemnation is so great, he would rather err on the side of the implausible than to consider the horrible prospect of the mass fanaticism which the data indicates about Muslims. And it isn’t just mortimer; many other Counter-Jihadists seem to share, in varying degrees, this anxious need, perhaps sometimes buried so deep they’re not fully aware of what they’re doing (at least I charitably surmise). Elsewhere I have recommended the Counter-Jihad try to cultivate the opposite impulse: to err on the side of not giving Muslims the benefit of the doubt – of not presuming them innocent until proven guilty. Of, to utter the ultimate blasphemy against Political Correctness: to cultivate prejudice against all Muslims. Many in the Counter-Jihad apparently would still recoil at this, since their psychological viscera, so to speak, remain in varying degrees enmeshed with the incoherent ideological mush of PC MC.
Fessitude says
“…this anxious need, perhaps sometimes buried so deep they’re not fully aware of what they’re doing (at least I charitably surmise)….”
Speaking of charity, my analyses of mortimer in this and in the other comment above charitably assume his motives spring from the confusion typical of the asymptotic Counter-Jihadist who is still in the process of working out his disentanglement from PC MC in his own heart & mind (or, to a worse degree, hasn’t even really started because of a lack of self-awareness). Other less charitable motives spring to mind, not to be summarily excluded…
Angemon says
“Speaking of charity”
Something you know nothing about.
“my analyses of mortimer in this and in the other comment above ”
The analysis you’re doing of a person whose comments you allegedly stopped reading many moons ago.
“ Other less charitable motives spring to mind, not to be summarily excluded…”
Classic voeg – you don’t toe y line, maybe you’re working for the other side. Where do you think you are, communist Russia?
Jay Boo says
Voeg/ Fesse
I have seen you come down on very hard unsuspecting new commenters who make valuable comments with your full tool box and arsenal of nit-picking of irrelevant details yet you come to mort’s defense in one reply and then back-peddle in another to cover your ass.
What a hypocrite you are.
Angemon says
“That was one of the typical morterisms that I’ve grown accustomed to bumping into whenever I decide not to bypass another mortimer comment”
Fess up, Fessitude: you don’t ignore mortimer’s posts, you read all of them. Much like you did when you claimed you were no longer reading my posts. And you do that because it helps to lend credibility to whatever you’re trying to accuse the person in question of: “I don’t always read this person’s posts, but the two or three I read said such and such – what are the odds I accidentally ran into two or three exceptions rather than the norm? Therefore, whatever it is I’m distorting and placing in their mouth is this person’s norm”.
Angemon says
Well, if the islamic experts in the CTC tow the Obama administration line and the Independent parrost is, who are we to disagree?…
Angemon says
“parrots it”, not ” parrost is” XD
Jay Boo says
Off topic
A general comment on attempts at failed sarcasm.
The writing is great except but …
The Sarcasm is missing its harpoon
becomes a “self-satirized” lampoon.
Just like the Quran
it leaves the door just a bit too open
to Islamic double interpretation.
Is it clever biting sarcasm posing as praise
or just a fence walking maze?
The pretext posing as a parody has
way too much waffle room while it
whispers defenders of Islam’s favorite tune.
_ _ _ _ _
It has a sprinkle of misdirection drenched in way too much ambiguity.
Satire not well executed is worse than an understatement.
It offers only a wide open door to double interpretation without a clincher.
It is merely passive aggression that gives a veil for Muhammad protection
Do we have…?
a nuanced hint to add mystique or the exploiting of a subtle semantic shift
a clever connotation or a mischievous display of wit
a sarcastic praise to delight and amaze
Or none of these
The routine use of ambiguous sarcasm leads to the conclusion that the sarcastic individual’s words can’t be trusted.
kessler says
“Male, 26, single, quite well-educated but not an expert on the Quran”
That many of the fighters are not “experts” on the Qur’an does not disprove that they are knowledgable about the Jihad doctrine.
Most “westernized” muslims do not claim to be experts on the Qur’an either, but they do claim that their watered down version of Islam is correct and jihadis are “not muslim”. They always fall short of commenting on the hundreds of millions of muslims adhering to sharia supremacy – they can’t bring themselves to denounce Sharia law as being un-islamic – they know it will make them apostates.
Such hypocrites.
Fessitude says
“Male, 26, single, quite well-educated but not an expert on the Quran”
That many of the fighters are not “experts” on the Qur’an does not disprove that they are knowledgable about the Jihad doctrine.
******************
Indeed. And one could go further to point out that what doestake relatively more expertise in Islam is learning how to cleverly deploy the various flavors of deceit from the Taqiyya Complex (Taqiyya, Muda’rat, Kitman, Tawriya, Taysir, Darura, and Muruna) when dealing with the more powerful Kuffar enemy.
Not all Muslims, perhaps not most Muslims, are able to deploy this relatively higher degree of expertise in Islam. They can just fall back on feigning ignorance in Islam, or repeat cruder variations on the theme of “but Islam is a religion of peace!”, or try to lead the kafir-du-jour asking them questions on a rabbit trail of confusion (the less expertise the Muslim has, the more transparent this game is, but Muslims don’t seem to care — they blithely do it anyway and even contradict themselves or blatantly lie, hoping that their Infidel interlocutor is stupid enough not to see through it, and sadly this is probably true most of the time)… Or there’s always the option to just “own” your extremism and “do an Anjem Chowdery”. Muslims must have figured out by now that there’s no harm in a certain number of the Umma doing this, since the Western Enemy is so stupid he persists in thinking this only reflects a Tiny Minority of Extremists who are not representative of the vast majority of Muslims Who Just Wanna Have a Sandwich.
Etc.
Jay Boo says
“Not all Muslims, perhaps not most Muslims, are able to deploy this relatively higher degree of expertise in Islam.”
Damn!
Next time warn me to put on thick leather boots.
Bottom Line
The Muzzie who slicing and dicing infidel’s necks is following Islam 101
Fessitude says
Leather boots and a better prescription for your glasses might help, in reading comprehension.
Angemon says
“Leather boots and a better prescription for your glasses might help, in reading comprehension.”
Didn’t you complain several times about the “ghastly text boxes” of JihadWatch, and blaming your typos on them? It’s not JB who needs prescription glasses…
Ann Jordan says
The leader of IS has a Ph.D. in Islamic Studies.
Mike says
Why does the Jihadi problem not happen on the same scale with other religions?
That’s my only question.
duh_swami says
Other religions don’t have the Quran and the examples of Mahound to guide them…
Westman says
“Of those who answered a question on the level of their religious knowledge, 70 per cent described it as ‘basic’..”
This is a self-assessment in an military employment application for ISIS. Most devout Christians would say the same about the depth of their knowledge of the available Christian writings. It would fantasy to then conclude that they don’t understand the essential doctrines.
“It is forbidden in Islam to oversimplify Sharia matters and ignore established Islamic sciences,”
Really? Where is this in the Quran or Hadiths? Not there? So the “scholars” get to make stuff up? Then how much of Islam is fabricated?
It appears that the “scholars” have rehashed everything that could be found, burned Quran and Hadith writings for which they couldn’t reach consensus, formed 4 disagreeing schools of ideology, and written hundreds of books expanding and expounding on Islam to manufacture the religious form that they control and feed the people.
Why don’t they just admit that this upstart, Baghidadi, has gone back to basic principles, a revival, and cut them out of the profit/status loop?
“..established Islamic sciences..” An oxymoron of incredible arrogance; usurping the name of a discipline to which they are not remotely related. “Established Islamic Priestcraft” is more accurate.
Fessitude says
“..established Islamic sciences..” An oxymoron of incredible arrogance; usurping the name of a discipline to which they are not remotely related. “Established Islamic Priestcraft” is more accurate.
No doubt it is a massive oxymoron; but one which the entire Western mainstream continues to indulge — not just “Leftists” but those on the right as well. Example, conservative businesswoman and Republican candidate for the US Presidency (since dropped out), Carly Fiorina who in a long speech she gave at a business conference while the smoke was still clearing from 911 (September 26, 2001, at a Hewlett-Packard seminar in Minneapolis), praised Islam to the skies (warning: barf buckets advised when reading this):
[BEGIN QUOTE]
There was once a civilization that was the greatest in the world.
It was able to create a continental super-state that stretched from ocean to ocean, and from northern climes to tropics and deserts. Within its dominion lived hundreds of millions of people, of different creeds and ethnic origins.
One of its languages became the universal language of much of the world, the bridge between the peoples of a hundred lands. Its armies were made up of people of many nationalities, and its military protection allowed a degree of peace and prosperity that had never been known. The reach of this civilization’s commerce extended from Latin America to China, and everywhere in between.
And this civilization was driven more than anything, by invention. Its architects designed buildings that defied gravity. Its mathematicians created the algebra and algorithms that would enable the building of computers, and the creation of encryption. Its doctors examined the human body, and found new cures for disease. Its astronomers looked into the heavens, named the stars, and paved the way for space travel and exploration.
Its writers created thousands of stories. Stories of courage, romance and magic. Its poets wrote of love, when others before them were too steeped in fear to think of such things.
When other nations were afraid of ideas, this civilization thrived on them, and kept them alive. When censors threatened to wipe out knowledge from past civilizations, this civilization kept the knowledge alive, and passed it on to others.
While modern Western civilization shares many of these traits, the civilization I’m talking about was the Islamic world from the year 800 to 1600, which included the Ottoman Empire and the courts of Baghdad, Damascus and Cairo, and enlightened rulers like Suleiman the Magnificent.
Although we are often unaware of our indebtedness to this other civilization, its gifts are very much a part of our heritage. The technology industry would not exist without the contributions of Arab mathematicians. Sufi poet-philosophers like Rumi challenged our notions of self and truth. Leaders like Suleiman contributed to our notions of tolerance and civic leadership.
And perhaps we can learn a lesson from his example: It was leadership based on meritocracy, not inheritance. It was leadership that harnessed the full capabilities of a very diverse population–that included Christianity, Islamic, and Jewish traditions.
This kind of enlightened leadership — leadership that nurtured culture, sustainability, diversity and courage — led to 800 years of invention and prosperity.
[END QUOTE]
http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/execteam/speeches/fiorina/minnesota01.html
Has Mrs. Fiorina apologized for this nauseating stream of camelshit, get down on her knees and beg forgiveness from the American people, from the whole West, for being so blind some 15 years ago? Of course not. No doubt she still believes it. This is one more indication, out of countless I keep bumping into over the years, that our problem is not merely “Leftists” and that the Westerners who indulge such nonsense are not evil, but rather their conscience & intelligence have become warped in subtle and complex ways by a cultural paradigm shift in worldview.
Fessitude says
P.S.:
Has Mrs. Fiorina apologized for this nauseating stream of camelshit, got down on her knees and beg forgiveness from the American people, from the whole West, for being so blind some 15 years ago? Of course not.
And why ever should she, when the entire Western mainstream all around her remains more or less warmly conducive to such nonsense (with gingerly exceptions to this rule exercized with utmost anxiety & caution, as though stepping out into the dark on a minefield of eggshells which the slightest crack underfoot may ruin one’s career, or render one persona non grata at Correct Soirées, or get one killed by a random Muslim who would be “twisting Islam” as he twists the blade into your breast); or perhaps worst of all, might mean that you are a “bigot” and a “racist”…???
خَليفة says
Perhaps this was a “planned” leak of information just for taqiyya purposes, and the independent just lapped it up like a hungry puppy.
The premise of their reasoning is fallacious – so much for good journalism.
It all depends on what “basic” means. Did they decided that people who did not formally study sharia could not be knowledgeable? How many Baptist church goers never went to seminary school, yet are very knowledgeable about the bible and the ancillary history?
Perhaps The independent could have taken another analytical approach – and come to the conclusion, based on the profiles of IS members, which suggest that the less Muslims know about Islam, the more violent they become.
Their logic if flawed in other ways too. Why is it that it’s always Muslims ( with less knowledge of Islam ) doing atrocities. Christians and Buddhists and Hindus and Jews and even atheists with a “basic” knowledge of their faith don’t go around killing people and blowing people up.
( basic Christianity: “do unto others as you would have them do unto you” )
( basic Islam: 2:191 “And kill them where ever you find them…” )
If Islam were a postal package it would be stamped with “contains evil” and “return to sender”. The return address: “HELL”
It has been shown to be true that one person with a little knowledge of “how to do bad things” is all it takes to start a crime wave. ( how to mug a person, how to steal a car, how to abduct a kid, ….it Does not take an academic to do which things ) So I have to wonder about the true intentions of the independent’s article.
underbed cat says
I can’t read your name….but I say, exactly. It takes an academic cleric to understand and interrupt to the infidels so they are perfectly mislead. It takes an academic to enter universities with “profound knowledge”, to mislead. It takes an academic to gain credibility to tell an incredible tale…and turn knowledge upside down, and backwards to the politicians and public. Some interesting thoughts…if you can handle the darkness.
And of course these leaks, and the rush to Saudi Arabia…are very necessary for an academic to save face in two different worlds. And the urgency is a little off setting…threats to economy, alerts to trouble, at a time when clueless- ness abounds. And anyone who is questioning what the hell is going on…has to worry about ……the word collectors and monitors. We can get over the betrayal but the effects are growing.
خَليفة says
Very true.
FYI
خَليفة ( Kalipha ) caliph ( successor ) it is my nom de guerre
You can copy/paste text from JW, use google translate,
Fessitude says
Do you fancy yourself the next Caliph, this time who will reform Islam?
خَليفة says
Fessitude,
Not really – who but a moron would want to be the spiritual leader of 1.5 billion deranged, ultra-sensitive, highly-defensive, unthinking, ignorant, sex-crazed, low-IQed Muslims who lack self control?
Besides, the history of past caliphs is telling of the true nature of Islam as most died unnatural deaths.
I took that name so some Muslim couldn’t. I am not a Muslim, never have been, never will be.
Jerry says
These apologists for evil are trying to distract us from the larger issue of islam’s supremacist agenda with their black-and-white fallacy, which is that most muslims are really nice and peaceful but that a minority have turned to murder and pillage for their fundamentalist perversion of the peaceful message of islam. But it’s abundantly clear that this “hijack” of theirs is in full operation on EVERY F*CKING LEVEL, our schools, politics, government, our neighborhoods, EVERYWHERE. This over-simplification of the truth is to distract us from the full spectrum of stealth jihad muslims are conducting with great cunning and effectiveness. So an obvious 3rd option is that jihad within the muslim community is a popularly shared goal and is manifesting in every area of our lives.
There’s been no “hijack” of islam by certain muslims. It is our traitorous politicians and weak media that have hijacked the truth in their alliance with muslims’ war against our peace and freedoms. These Benedict Arnolds have lost their cover, their betrayal is exposed before the world. I’m no historian, but I do recall this same kind of collaboration during the war with Nazis. But after the war these traitors got what they deserved with everything from shaved heads and spit to the firing squad. These modern day traitors need to mend their ways. They need to make truth and humanity their main goals, not senseless hate for some murdering warlord and demented pagan god.
David says
Mohammed the thug? Or Mohammed the child rapists, kidnapper, murderer, etc. The list of the fowl, vile, savages and unspeakable crimes of the founder of this cult of death and penis worship are endless. This foul sect should be BANNED from all civilised nations.
Subversive and sedition should be enough!
خَليفة says
Spot on Dave.
linnte says
Even Christians who grow up with devout Christian parents know scripture without ever putting their eyes on the Bible. These Muslims have, from their very first breath, a grounding and indoctrination in Islam. It’s what families DO. Teach their children what they know, even if it isn’t done deliberately. 1400 years of indoctrination is a pretty deep pile of poop. No Muslim mother would allow her child to not obey the Qur’an and no Imam would dream of preaching anything opposite of what the Qur’an teaches.
These “scholars” totally leave out the family/community unit. Which is where all humans get their basic programming. No one farts loudly in public! Well, no civilised person does anyway. There is no stronger influence on a person’s life than family, then community. When everyone thinks the same as everyone else, it is impossible to NOT think the same.
Fessitude says
Yes, the most basic Islam 101 which takes little expertise, inculcated universally among Muslims (we reasonably assume, after having educated ourselves about Islam over the years), is hatred of the Other. This hatred of the non-Muslim comes in a larger package, including a supremacist chip on the shoulder and an amorphous imperative to conquer the earth (at its vaguest level just a sense of entitlement and an encouragement for Muslims to continue infiltrating in any way possible, leeching off the system, bullying the Kuffar with lawfare, insinuating Dawa/Taqiyya propaganda, etc.; and getting proportionally more studied and tactical the more the Muslim is active in the various forms of non-violent jihad — even if the garden-variety Muslim can console himself or herself that at the very least, he or she in concert with millions of his or her brothers & sisters is helping the overall Jihad by embodying the jihad of just being there inside the West.)
What that minority of Muslims who actually study Islam are doing is not fundamentally rejecting this hatred of the Other nor the package that goes along with it, but only elucidating the OCD framework that is every Muslim’s inheritance from their “best model of conduct”, Mohammed. I.e., these Islamic “experts” are not really balking at what ISIS is doing per se – only that they may not be doing it “correctly”. A typical example of this I came across a few years ago, when analyzing one of the likely thousands of Islamic conferences held by various Muslim clerics and/or scholars – in 2003 in Stockholm, Sweden (a grimly ironic and apt location), where they spent their time discussing basically where, when, and under what circumstances is it appropriate and/or lawful (under Islamic law) to kill the enemy. They weren’t recoiling at such a notion outright and condemning it, as would happen in 99.999% of any Christian conference held anywhere in the world if the subject even came up; no, they were only discussing, like psychopaths, the minutiae of where and when and how to do it.
Thus, at that Stockholm conference, after discussing for a couple of days all the details of the Enemy and what the Muslim should do about the Enemy, one of the lead clerics, Sheikh Qaradawi (arguably the “Billy Graham of Islam” not in terms of content of course, but in terms of mass appeal and popularity throughout the Sunni world) delivered his chillingly “expert” summation of Islam in the West:
It has been determined by Islamic law that the blood and property of people of Dar Al-Harb is not protected. Because they fight against and are hostile towards the Muslims, they annulled the protection of [their] blood and [their] property…
(For more details, see http://hesperado.blogspot.com/2012/04/islamic-conferences.html )
Marty says
The Independent employs a man called Fisk.
His views on Israel are remarkable, even by the standards of
the BBC/Guardian to which the Independent adheres.
It’s worth pointing out that few of the brutes who ran Auschwitz, Belsen etc
had a first class knowledge of Mein Kampf or similar authoritative documents.
It didn’t make them less Nazi.
wallace says
Dave I find it hard to believe that the old pontiff is as igmorant as he is making out. I think he is already getting prepared to accept dhimmi status, he is nicely subdued , sucking on those Muslim tootsies for all he’s worth, he will in time learn to keep his Popemobile to the narrow side of the road.I am pretty sure with a bit of bribery (youths like scattered pearls) he will be allowed to pay his jizya by proxy.
D says
Considering ISIS is demanding a tax increase for those who don’t know the Quoran enough I doubt that’s true.
Kepha says
Maybe the Independent is right. Maybe the average ISIS recruit isn’t all that knowledgeable about Islamic law. However, I would bet the proverbial farm that the average ISIS recruit is still more knowledgeable about Islamic law that SecState Kerry and the editors of the NYSlimes and WashCompost put together.
SD says
muhamad the fals3 prophet, war lord,mass murderer,genocidist,rapist and peadophile is the supreme example for all muslims this is why islam can NEVER be peace.