This is not “extremist.” Crucifying people who “fight against Allah and his messenger and hasten about the earth to do corruption” is prescribed in the Qur’an:
“This is the recompense of those who fight against Allah and His Messenger, and hasten about the earth to do corruption there: they shall be slaughtered, or crucified, or their hands and feet shall alternately be struck off; or they shall be banished from the land. That is a degradation for them in this world; and in the world to come awaits them a mighty chastisement.” (Qur’an 5:33)
“ISIS extremists execute, crucify eight people in Syria’s Raqqa,” by Ahmed Shiwesh, ARA News, April 4, 2016:
QAMISHLI – Militants of the Islamic State (ISIS) executed a number of people in Syria’s northeastern province of Raqqa, rights activists and eyewitnesses reported on Sunday.
ISIS has reportedly slaughtered eight young men in the Mansoura district west of Raqqa.
Speaking to ARA News, rights activist Nadeem Mahmoud said that ISIS extremists shot eight young men dead, and crucified their bodies on electricity poles on the highway of Mansoura near the Rusafa citadel in Raqqa.
During the execution, ISIS closed all the roads leading to the Mansoura district on Sunday.
A member of the local at-Taakhi organization for human rights told ARA News that most of the victims were residents of al-Hatil village, where the Arab clan of al-Bukhamis constitutes a majority.
“The victims have been detained for nearly a year, before the group decided to execute them on Sunday,” the source reported, speaking on condition of anonymity.
He added that three of the executed men were former members of ISIS and tried to desert its ranks, “but they were arrested before they flee Raqqa province.”
Another four men have been charged with violating ISIS regulations in Raqqa, and were among those executed and crucified on Sunday, according to the source.
The organization also reported that ISIS militants have executed another person in the roundabout of Dalla in Raqqa downtown on charges of spying for the US-led coalition forces.
An ISIS member from the Sharia Court read a statement before conducting the execution, explaining the reasons for their execution without revealing the victims’ identities, eyewitnesses told ARA News….

Dan Jones says
Despicable these followers of the pedophile are, but they will see Jesus when they die and he will settle all accounts on account He is the King of Kings…
More End Time News At:
http://www.shininginthedark.com/?page_id=6088
Myrtle Linder says
It is very difficult to imagine such cruel evil, uncompromising evil.
mortimer says
The ideology of Islam is spell-binding. Even the mutineers and deserters from ISIS still believe in the ideology. They say they don’t accept the sadism, but still believe Islam teaches those things. They are suspended in a paralyzing stupidity, unable to think independently. They can be reanimated to be jihadists at any time and hundreds are returning to Europe and other Western countries. They will be admired by many Muslim youths. They are actually criminals. All of these deserters committed beheadings and executions…so they are all terrible criminals who should all be incarcerated for life.
ISIS demands that all its fighters participate in murders.
wildbill2u says
Western minds cannot envision these acts as anything but abnormal at best and pure evil at worst. We do not understand the Muslim worldview and that is our mistake.
But to the Muslim who has been taught nothing but the Quran, the Hadiths, and all the aspects of the religion of Islam, they are completely normal and the righteous acts of true believers.
Muslim schools do not include anything but religion. They learn nothing about other cultures or societies other than that they are populated by infidels who sin against Allah simply by existing outside the framework of Islam.
Shane says
According to liberals, conservatives who don’t believe in gay marriage or abortion are a bigger threat to America!
defiant infidel says
AMEN ! AND MAY THESE VICTIMS OF ISIS REST IN THE LORD’S BOSOM UNTIL JESUS, THE KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS RETURNS ON JUDGMENT DAY TO CAUSE EACH AND EVERYONE OF US, TO GIVE ACCOUNTS ON OUR DEEDS IN THIS WORLD.
Dan says
Stock photo? There are more than eight on their knees.
Robert Spencer says
Yes.
linnte says
I didn’t count, cuz I couldn’t bear looking at it!
Gary says
I completely understand your position. Most times, as I being to open this web site I think to myself..
“Now what atrocities have muslims, in the name of God, committed?”
Bob says
Not “in the name of God” but in the name of Allah= satan!
Christianblood says
linnte
Don’t be sad and just remember this:
Assad must go!
dumbledoresarmy says
These aren’t ‘executions’, strictly speaking.
They are ritualised human sacrifices.
Islam is a Death Cult or, more properly, a Murder Cult: the only extant large-membership belief system that, in the 21st century, is still performing human sacrifices.
mortimer says
Agree. Since Islam is a human-sacrifice cult, it may be banned just as the Aztec human-sacrifice cult was banned.
Islam is opposed to modern human rights codes which are based on compassion and logic.
The Koran and Sharia law should be taken to court and condemned under national law the UNDHR.
No Fear says
Ditto. No one would seriously suggest that the Aztec religion with human sacrifice was acceptable today. Yet the death penalty for apostasy under Sharia? If you oppose that then you are an “Islamophobe” and a disgrace to the West!
Champ says
Precisely, DDA!
Angemon says
Nicely put, DDA.
Bill says
Do you really want to know what’s happening in your State and see the plan of Washington, Obama, your State Legislatures, City Mayors etc?
Did you know that our government is promising to bring in over 680,000 Muslim Refugees into cities in the United States in the next 5 years and you have no say so in the matter?
Don’t believe me? Check out refugeeresettlementwatch.wordpress.com and enter your State on a Search to find out more.
Go to your City Council meetings and find out what the’re doing. You won’t like what you hear.
No Fear says
The Nazis hung opponents using piano wire. Hitler then showed films of the hangings to top Nazis for entertainment.
Would someone reading Hitler’s execution instructions (“string them up with piano wire”) think that the words were coming from “God”?
Yet, that is what muslims are saying about Mohammed’s words in Q5:33.
Cecilia Ellis says
Savages! They belong at the bottom of the muddy pool of water in which their sun sets. I know some SEALS who would love to start an outreach program with these barbarians.
Bart Connolly says
Sadly the US Military had a lot to do with the rise of ISIL. When Saddam the brutal dictator ruled Iraq and was a pal of the Us he hated Muslim fundamentalists and they were not tolerated by him Sadly Saddam stopped being a pal of the Us when he threatened Kuwait and Saudi Arabia the two other dictatorships next door to him but who also were allies of the US and remain so to this day. the removal of Saddam and the subsequent removal of US troops allowed fundamentalists to take control of regions in Syria and Iraq.
Now the Us didnt support the Syrian dictatorship but the Russians did so much the same happened there except the Russians didn’t leave and continued to support their pal in Syria. Meanwhile the tiny minority of Christians that were just about surviving in Saddams time are being wiped out today. they were about 10 % when Israel was set up. they were about 5% under Saddam but they are less than about half a percent today. Most of them did survive but are refugees elsewhere bit of course you maybe dont want these CHRISTIAN refugees who look like Arabs and call God “Allah” ?
linnte says
Bart, the color of someone’s skin has got NOTHING to do with trying to stop Islam from taking over Europe, Britain and the USA. Also, Christians (I am a Pagan)who are not converted to Islam are NOT CONVERTED because they know the real name of God, and it’s not Allah.
I get really tired of the “USA created ISIS” rhetoric too. The USA supplied arms and machinery for the Syrian rebels. ISIS was already in the making via Taliban, Hamas and alQueda. You are leaving out a couple critical points here in you defense against IS. First and foremost is, the Qur’an, whether YOU like it or not, commands Muslim men to Jihad, and if you have read that vile book, you would know this. Second, if Islam is a “Peaceful” religion and political doctrine, why has there NEVER been peace in the Middle East. Third, I could hand out guns all day in my community, and the people would thank me and go home: ISIS uses the guns they get because THEY WANT TO. It isn’t the gun that causes the killing. It’s the Muslim.
Cecilia Ellis says
Linnte, you are quite right. Inherent in the Islamic ideology is the mandate to kill, a heritage that has been manifested for 1400 years, which pretty much eliminates the U. S. military as being the cause. The Qur’an, the Hadith and the Life of Muhammad indeed inspire something less than a “Religion of Peace.”
Hope you and yours are well.
linnte says
Thanks Cecilia! I am well thanks. Your response to Bart was wonderful!
Cecilia Ellis says
Bart stated the following: “Sadly the US Military had a lot to do with the rise of ISIL.”
No, the United States military did not have a lot to do with the rise of ISIS. That credit goes historically to Muhammad, some 1400 years earlier, and more recently to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who gained international notoriety with his beheading of Nick Berg. I strongly recommend that you read Robert Spencer’s book, “The Complete Infidel’s Guide to ISIS.”
The U. S. military accomplishes the strategies established by civilian policy makers through tactical operations conducted in accord with authorized rules of engagement. Frequently, those strategies culminate in objectives that cannot be met realistically for a variety of reasons — political concerns, political indecision, and political correctness being the primary culprits.
Nevertheless, ISIS promotes an ideology consistent with other Islamic terror groups: Abu Nidal Organization, Abu Sayyaf, al-Nusra Front, al-Qaeda, al-Shabaab, Ansar al-Islam, Ansar al-Sharia. Boko Haram, HAMAS, Hizbollah, Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU), Jemaah Islamiva (JI), Palestinian Islamic Jihad, et al. These groups want a caliphate and to get it, they will kill their way to the mythic “glory of the Golden Age of Islam.”
The American experience with the supremacist, intolerant and violent adherents to the canonical texts of Islam reveals this:
Barbary pirates, U.S. Embassy Bombing in Lebanon, Beirut Marine Barracks Bombing, Achille Lauro, TWA 847 Hijacking, Lockerbie Bombing PANAM Flight 103, World Trade Center Bombing – February 26, 1993, Khobar Towers Bombing, U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania Bombings, USS Cole Bombing, 9/11 Attacks, Bali Bombings, Utah Mall Shooting, Mumbai Attacks, Little Rock, Arkansas Army Recruitment Center, Fort Hood Shooting, Benghazi Attack, Boston Marathon Bombing, Garland TX Attack, Chattanooga Shooting Attack, Paris Attacks, Brussels Attacks, and the American lives lost to Palestinian stabbers in Israel.
As for Saddam Hussein, estimates are that he was responsible for killing half a million of his own people. It is said that his favorite torture item was a drill. Admittedly, he sometimes chose the less invasive tactic of starvation . . . for women and children, although he occasionally opted for beheadings. Numbers were never a problem for him; two-hundred-fifty mass graves have been located. The use of sarin and mustard gases on the village of Halabja brought him a total of 5000 dead in minutes. He was evil; he needed to go.
Now for your last statement: “Most of them did survive but are refugees elsewhere bit (sic) of course you maybe dont (sic) want these CHRISTIAN refugees who look like Arabs and call God “Allah”?
On the contrary, Bart, I welcome Christian refugees. In fact, if you check through the JW archives, you will find that I have addressed specifically that very issue and have gone on record as having been outraged that Christians are being turned away from relocation to the United States. Additionally, I spent over twenty years in the military; I lived in a Muslim nation. I was at Ground Zero (WTC) for two months while it was burning and while search and rescue/recovery operations were being conducted. I don’t care what people look like; I care about what they do.
Bart Connolly says
lintee. you are wrong about allah not being used by christians . look here http://www.peshitta.org/ Syriac is the closest surviving language to Aramaic which is the language Jesus spoke. there are Aramaic and syriac bibles and they use the word “Allah” if anything Islam ( or more correctly Arabic) got the word from aramaic)
2. Isil were not created by the Taliban but they would be related. and where did the taliban came from Afghanistan? Which was occupied by the russians as well and the US sat next door in Pakistan and supplied and trained MuJIHADeen fighters and told them to go and fight their religious war in Afghanistan with US backing.
3. IsIL ARE a consequence of US withdrawal from Iraq. Imagine you have a place filled with drug gangs and dealers and I say “im going to go in ther and arrest them all and clean them out. I have a deck of cards of the 52 most weanted drug dealers” And suppose I go in and do that. ALL of the dealers and gang members are locked up or dead. What happens then? well they were selling drugs for MONEY so someone else will just start the same business maybe even someone worse than the original gang. You need to provide an alternative so local people can make money woithout having to go into drug dealing. Likewise you cant just remove Saddam and all his Army and suppose the country is great and just leave. Which is what the US did. They left! And ISIL grew when there was no Military to stop them.
Bart Connolly says
Cecelia thanks for your comments.
1.” No, the United States military did not have a lot to do with the rise of ISIS.”
See point 1 in my last post.
2.”The U. S. military accomplishes the strategies established by civilian policy makers through tactical operations conducted in accord with authorized rules of engagement”
The Us have invaded about 100 places in the last century
See http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html
this list is much longer than yours.
the US frequently change the legal definition of terrorism or torture because they find themselves breaking their own definition. The US are NOT the moral police of the world and even US Presidents warned about the military industrial complex. Over 10,000 people shoot themselves in the US EVERY YEAR and over 20,000 are shot by others. thats about 33,000 a year nearly ten time the Twin Towers. EVERY YEAR.
The world rejected the US “terms of engagement” in Iraq the second time. People accepted it the first time when the US didnt even go in ( and they probably should have) but the secons time just seemed like an excuse to blame Saddam for 911 and make up stories about WMD that never existed! The US people were hoodwinked and US young people died there and were treated badly by their own government who awarded HUGE contracts to non combatant companies and private security firms.
I respect people who do national service and I am not antigun. I have eleven years of it myself and can train people in marksmanship. But dont try to tell me Military leadership are all on some sort of crusade of righteousness.
3. As for Saddam Hussein, estimates are that he was responsible for killing half a million of his own people.
So what? I had family worked there when Saddam was there. I ALWAYS opposed him. Even then when the US supported him and Rumsfeld shook his hand when Saddam was a pal of the US. I never said Saddam was anything other than a brutal dictator. Just one of the may on the list above in point 2 that the US supported. The thing is HE DIDNT HAVE WMD which is the reason you claimed for invading. and HE DIDNT SUPPORT AL QAEDA.
The US didn NOTHING wher others said saddam was evil and needed to go. They only DECADES LATER after 911 when they needed a fall guy then said Saddam was supporting Islamic terrorism ( HE WAS NOT) and had to be stopped in case of another 911.
How about all the other dictators the US supported in south america and elsewhere?
4. I also agree with the idea of refugees and accepting them but not accepting terrorist sympathesiers or enablers. But the Us constitution says “innocent until proven guilty” so are you going to lock up all arabs and muslims in concentration camps or just refuse them entry? Why are you letting in the Saudi royal family if you dont want fundi enablers?
5. When you lived in a muslim nation did you have Muslim friends and are they still your friends?
Angemon says
Bart Connolly posted:
“The Us have invaded about 100 places in the last century
See http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html
this list is much longer than yours.”
Huh, Bart? You and I need to have a talk on what “invade” means. Because that list of yours includes South Dakota and Detroit. Heck, it even includes “UNITED STATES”. So the United States invaded the United States?
“The US are NOT the moral police of the world”
Can you think of someone better suited for the job?
“Over 10,000 people shoot themselves in the US EVERY YEAR and over 20,000 are shot by others. thats about 33,000 a year nearly ten time the Twin Towers. EVERY YEAR.”
Let me guess: you’re pro-gun control.
“The world rejected the US “terms of engagement” in Iraq the second time. People accepted it the first time when the US didnt even go in ( and they probably should have) but the secons time just seemed like an excuse to blame Saddam for 911 and make up stories about WMD that never existed!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgQw8EhPJWw
“I respect people who do national service and I am not antigun.”
Which begs the question: why did you brought up the (alleged) numbers of victims of shooting out of nowhere? Why not, let’s say, drug overdoses, or car accidents, or obesity, or crushed by vending machines?
Bart Connolly says
Cecile please understand what I said . Your reply said “. Inherent in the Islamic ideology is the mandate to kill, a heritage that has been manifested for 1400 years, which pretty much eliminates the U. S. military as being the cause.”
I didnt claim US Military caused Islamic fundamentalism or acts based on that. I claimed the US withdrawal from Iraq left a power vacuum . It might have been filled by another Saddam who HATED Islamists by the way. But in this case it was filled in part by ISIL. That part mainly being along water sources originally and then oil later on.
My point is that the lack of Military allowed someone else to come in . and the Military in Iraq were overwhelmingly US maybe 10% were UK but at best 1% were everyone else so we are talking the removal of US Military being a major if not the main contributing factor to ISIL being able to take control.
Cecilia Ellis says
Bart, first and foremost, thank you for your military service; regardless of the circumstances, that service always is accompanied by sacrifice in any number of ways.
Second, when I read your initial post, I understood your statement to be exactly what you said: “Sadly the US Military had a lot to do with the rise of ISIL.” However, in the context of U. S. military presence being terminated by the Commander-in-Chief and other policy makers, I agree that the consequence of that ill-advised action culminated in a vacuum which enabled ISIS to expand without restraint. Another ill-advised policy was that the withdrawal date was announced by the President of the United States/Commander-in-Chief months ahead, further enabling ISIS to prepare for its operations.
Third, in my initial response to you, I summarized a history of the American experience with Islamic aggression. With the exception of the failed attack targeting Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller in Garland, Texas, American lives – civilian and military – were lost or Americans were injured. The term “injured” does not capture adequately the long-term medical results endured by survivors and their families. In your second reply, you stated, “The Us have invaded about 100 places in the last century . . .” Again, that military intervention was accomplished by order of the President of the United States in his role as Commander-in-Chief or by direct CIA-led operations. The list you referred to and linked to also contained domestic deployment of troops in support of civil rights, World War I, World War II, Korea, the attempt to rescue Americans held hostage in Iran, etc. As the subject of my response was Islamic aggression, I find the issue of which you speak to fall primarily in the foreign policy arena.
Fourth, you stated, “The thing is HE DIDNT HAVE WMD which is the reason you claimed for invading. and HE DIDNT SUPPORT AL QAEDA.” If you read my response to you, nowhere in that response did I claim that WMD was the reason for American invasion of Iraq; nor did I say that Saddam supported al-Qaeda. But since you brought it up, the Iraqi Air Force Deputy Director, General Georges Sada, wrote a book entitled, “Saddam’s Secrets.” As second-in-command of Saddam’s Air Force, Sada confirmed that Saddam did have WMD and revealed that Saddam had that WMD transferred to Damascus, Syria via two civilian airplanes. Those planes made 56 trips at the direction of Ali Hussein al-Majid, also known as “Chemical Ali.” Additionally, a joint UNSCOM and IAEA report identified those agents once held by Saddam and not accounted for in subsequent inspections. Interestingly, VX was one of the nerve agents for which there was no accountability. VX is 600 times more lethal than chlorine gas, the success of which was documented in World War I. I did, however, in my initial response to your reply, address the documented evidence that Saddam used both sarin and mustard gas on the village of Halabja. I failed to mention that he also used Tabun, which also is a highly lethal nerve agent. Additionally, Saddam himself claimed to have WMD, probably to remain a threat to Iran. After repeated violations of UN Security Council Resolutions, Resolution 1441 was issued, providing Saddam one last chance to comply with disarmament obligations. Because he did not, the invasion of Iraq occurred.
Fifth, you stated, “But the Us constitution says “innocent until proven guilty” so are you going to lock up all arabs and muslims in concentration camps or just refuse them entry? Why are you letting in the Saudi royal family if you dont want fundi enablers?” Quite frankly, I have no idea how these two questions are germane to either my initial comment or to the replies I have given. Nowhere have I stated anything addressing such issues. The issue is, according to the posted article, is that ISIS executed eight Christians and subsequently crucified them on posts for the public to view. It is those specific executioners about whom I made my original comment – no more, no less.
In response to your question, “When you lived in a muslim (sic) nation did you have Muslim friends and are they still your friends,” the answer is both “yes” and “no.” In the Muslim nation in which I lived, my assignment precluded establishing relationships with foreign nationals. However, in my professional interaction with military officers from Iran, I had 11 acquaintances. They were all summarily executed at the direction of Ayatollah Khomeini in the years subsequent to his seizing power. They were all wonderful people and I have never forgotten them; nor shall I.
madmemere says
If these young men were executed and crucified this past Sunday it is rather “ironic”, since it was designated as “Divine Mercy Sunday”!
Jerry says
More mass murder committed for the islamic god. Listening to the left lie for this religion is like looking at a Dali painting, everything’s distorted and surreal. Their fascist faith calls for this kind of hate and murder, allah has spoken. If that god is real then surely it is the devil.
Every time some smart a$$ politician or media tells us islam means “peace” they are defending this kind of murderous hate. Clearly islam does not mean peace when their god commands these kinds of humanitarian crimes. No, they know islam doesn’t mean peace, but they foolishly believe if they soothe muslim’s hurt feelings they won’t do as their demented god commands. And that cowardice is destroying the west. I know that if muslims were of sufficient numbers we would be seeing the same killing on our own streets. I truly believe that anyone that speaks in defense of this faith is aiding the enemy. The ugly truth about islam is too stark and noticeable for us to be hoodwinked by our leaders’ childish lies. The cries of the dead demand that we speak the truth and act to prevent the spread of this evil doctrine.
Close the mosques, they teach this evil! Stop immigration from muslim countries, they aren’t assimilating! Outlaw sharia, it’s against our constitution and human rights!
dom107 says
I agree with all that but how do we get our leaders heads out of that Arabian sand before they get cut off!!
linnte says
Protest! Get LOUD. Don’t be afraid to make it public. Write your congressional representatives. I wrote mine and the letter I got back from him was wonderful!! He is a Democrat but absolutely up to speed on Islamic infiltration of the USA. Write big news papers editors demanding someone on their staff who isn’t Muslim, read the Qur’an with no intervention or advice from any Muslims. Challenge them! The KEY to getting Western people to see the atrocities of Islam is for then to read Islamic literature.
Mirren10 says
”He added that three of the executed men were former members of ISIS and tried to desert its ranks, “but they were arrested before they flee Raqqa province.”
The engineer is hoisted with his own petard.
Walter Sieruk says
What a viciously cruel religion Islam is ! For executing non-Muslims by crucifying them is found in the Koran [5:33.] Likewise, this “holy book” of Islam teaches concerning Muslim actions towards non-Muslims,the Koran instructs “let them find harshness in you…” [9:123] Crucifying people is a very strong way to show “harshness” to people who aren’t Muslims. So the ruthless ,brutal behavior by the jihadists of ISIS are indeed Koranic based ,and therefore truly Islamic.. Even though President Obama is in great denial o the violence and deadly essence of Islam,it stands that in the view of the Koran ISIS is an Islamic organization A much more realistic person then Obama was the scholar was Thomas Paine. For Mr. Paine had written in his book THE AGE OF REASON that “Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system.”
Walter Sieruk says
The ISIS jihadists ISIS in their mad Islamic quest to establish a caliphate, with all the cruel, brutal and murdering violence that is part of it, will not respond the reason. For the Muslim fanatics who compose ISIS cannot understand logic, nor do they care about reason. Those jihadists of ISIS in their irrational unquestioning blind Islamic faith have and leave no room for reason. In this unreasoning blind Islamic drive the jihadist/Muslims who make up ISIS are a reminder of what Benjamin Franklin had printed in POOR RICHARD’S ALMANACK. Which is “The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.”
Walter Sieruk says
One good way to defeat the extremely cruel ,vicious and murderous jihadist thugs who compose the brutal and deadly jihad entity ISIS is by the use of many very strong powers of military might. That is hit them hard. Hit them long and keep on hitting them and don’t stop hitting them. Meaning take them down, put them down, keep them down and don ‘t let them rise up again. As Thomas Jefferson had ,so well, stated “With every barbarous people …force is law.”
David says
When ever I see the words: “allah and his messenger”, I always read it as “SATAN AND HIS DEMONS!
And I’m not a religious person! I can’t remember the last time I was in a church. But it is likely over a decade.
I’m convinced that this whole Muslim murder/death/penis cult is a gift directly from the hand of satan himself. There can not be a rational or scientific explainations. Our own town is being over run with the horrid refuse of the muslim world. And all living on government benifits too!
In the supermarket, muslim women in long black suits. Who smell so bad that I have to hold my breath as they walk past. (Is it a sin for them to bath?)
linnte says
I am not religious either! And I have many times in the past(past being the operative word here) said that there is no worldly evidence of Satan. UNTIL learning about Islam. There is absolutely no other explanation for the continued existence of Islam. Because of my past non belief in Satan, I could easily ignore the Divinity of Jesus. Let’s just say my whole world has been shaken by these epiphanys!
Bart Connolly says
Whatever about his messenger Need I remind you “Allah” is the same word as “God” in Arabic.? Arabic Christians use “Allah”. They concept Muslims have of God is different to that of Christians however. So please don’t confuse the label with the thing itself. A sigh saying “london” is not the City.
Bart Connolly says
Cecilia Ellis said
April 7, 2016 at 2:35 am
The U. S. military accomplishes the strategies established by civilian policy makers through tactical operations conducted in accord with authorized rules of engagement. Frequently, those strategies culminate in objectives that cannot be met realistically for a variety of reasons — political concerns, political indecision, and political correctness being the primary culprits.
Are you now claiming this applies only to Jihadists and islam and not to other Military strategy and invasions?
2. in the context of U. S. military presence being terminated by the Commander-in-Chief and other policy makers, I agree that the consequence of that ill-advised action culminated in a vacuum which enabled ISIS to expand without restraint.
This seems rather biased. I am happy to agree that Obama might have acted better but it seem you are not happy to say Bush was ill advised and invaded Iraq based on no evidence at all There were no WMD as promised and Saddam didnt support Al Qaeda! Bush was wrong to go in if this was the reason for invasion but you dont seem to admit that.
3. Many of the invasion on the list i provided were not with the vote of congress or order by the commander in Chief and in most cases for traqde and business reasons and not in order to protect lives.
4. you say “, nowhere in that response did I claim that WMD was the reason for American invasion of Iraq; nor did I say that Saddam supported al-Qaeda.”
You claimed the Us Military act on rules of engagement and for good reason ( see 1 above)
Ok please answer me WHY DID THE US MILITARY INVADE IRAQ?
the makey uppy story on WMD moved to syria is about as believable as “curveball”.
They said they would produce them in weeks and knew where they were. You dont seem to remember that? Now you are claiming they were all moved. So how come they arent in syria now? How come the US arent invading Syria to get them? Maybe Saddam had invisible fire breathing dragons too?
“VX was one of the nerve agents for which there was no accountability.” A bit like White Phosphorus which US Military used?
more than 250,000 gallons of the agent VX are stored in Newpoirt indiana and some has spilled out in 2005
“Psychological Science “– Journal . published 2005 assessed the effects reports and retractions in the media had on people’s memory regarding the search for WMD in Iraq
The repetition of tentative news stories, even if they are subsequently disconfirmed, can assist in the creation of false memories in a substantial proportion of people.
Once information is published, its subsequent correction does not alter people’s beliefs unless they are suspicious about the motives underlying the events the news stories are about.
When people ignore corrections, they do so irrespective of how certain they are that the corrections occurred.
WMD were not produced and found as promised and your memory is faulty if you dont remember rice predicting a “mushroom cloud” if the US didnt invade.
Saddam didnt have WMD i.e. weapons capable of firing on neighbours or support Al Qaeda. If syria has that capability way are you calling for US troops there?
5. Back to the issue of Jihadists. Do you believe ISIL warrants an army to go in and take out ISIL? If the Russians do it are they right?
6. Saddam used gas back in the 1980s ! this is 2003 we are discussing after decades of UN Inspectors went in and sealed up precursors capable of making WMD.
7 on 1441 The United States asserted this was a breach of Resolution 1441, but failed to convince the UN Security Council to pass a new resolution authorizing the use of force due to *** lack of evidence.***
President George W. Bush not the UN asserted peaceful measures could not disarm Iraq of the weapons ***he alleged*** it to have and launched a second Gulf War. Later U.S.-led inspections found out that Iraq had earlier ceased active WMD production and stockpiling.
8. the point about saudis and arabs being banned from the US is how are you going to maintain christoian refugees are okay but Muslim or arabic ones arent? can you prove they are guilty? If you cant do you then assume they are innocent?
Finally just to get my position clear. I dont support fundamentalism of any kind Islamic, christian atheist maexist liberal or whatever. But I detect a note of support for neoconservative and/or libertarian US thinking in your stance. Please correct me in that if i am wrong. You see I dont see you saying “Bush was wrong” but I do see you saying “Obama was wrong” Have you considered both might have been wrong? And have you considered Bush and his supporters has friends in Saudi Arabia? Im only asking you be fair and balanced.
I dont think much for Islamists in Iraq and the terrible things they did there either but dont forget this was a time when Saddam was the pal of the US when he was using chemical weapons on Iran.
Bart Connolly says
Sorry if I am wandering into brodder topics. the brutal executions by ISIL are appaling. Im just saying that the US Military withdrawal enabled ISIL to get into power so don’t you think they have any responsibility for the State of the region? An by the way I dont think the Russians French British and Turks are without responsibility either.
Bart Connolly says
in reply to Angemon
April 11, 2016 at 6:35 pm
Bart Connolly posted:
“The Us have invaded about 100 places in the last century
See http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html
this list is much longer than yours.”
Angemon stated Huh, Bart? You and I need to have a talk on what “invade” means. Because that list of yours includes South Dakota and Detroit. Heck, it even includes “UNITED STATES”. So the United States invaded the United States?
REply: I am aware that list includes places which are in the US Today like HAwaii and were not in the US then and which are in mainland US but you count the misses and ignore the hits. Showing that US Muilitary were used against trade unions in the US are not invading the US does nit change the 100 or so events of invasion of NON Us foreign countries on that list.
“The US are NOT the moral police of the world”
2. Can you think of someone better suited for the job?
This is like saying the romans crusified christ but was there anyoine better at doing the job at that time? Being BEST at invading other countries isn’t changinf the fact that you are invading in the frst place nor does it dismiss the fact that the invasions were for trade and economic reasons not for human rights.
3.
“Over 10,000 people shoot themselves in the US EVERY YEAR and over 20,000 are shot by others. thats about 33,000 a year nearly ten time the Twin Towers. EVERY YEAR.”
Let me guess: you’re pro-gun control.
Reply 3 Let me guess you just ignored the actual stats!
4.
“The world rejected the US “terms of engagement” in Iraq the second time. People accepted it the first time when the US didnt even go in ( and they probably should have) but the secons time just seemed like an excuse to blame Saddam for 911 and make up stories about WMD that never existed!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgQw8EhPJWw
How does this prove WMD existed?
5. “I respect people who do national service and I am not antigun.”
Which begs the question: why did you brought up the (alleged) numbers of victims of shooting out of nowhere? Why not, let’s say, drug overdoses, or car accidents, or obesity, or crushed by vending machines?
Reply 5 Because we were discussing US Military and Saddam Military deaths in Iraq and I was comparing people killing oither people. Road accidents drug overdoses or other accidents dont happen because the perpretrator intended to hurt someone. I didnt include Accidental gun deaths and I am not against people using guns for hunting even if accidents sometimes happen. I am against people using guns for killing others out of malice otr personal interest or for economic gain. Totally different to accidental death.
Angemon says
Bart Connolly posted:
“Showing that US Muilitary were used against trade unions in the US are not invading the US”
Which, well, it isn’t.
“does nit change the 100 or so events of invasion of NON Us foreign countries on that list.”
It does, however, can make one wonder what sort of biased definitions are being used.
“This is like saying the romans crusified christ but was there anyoine better at doing the job at that time?”
No, it is not. We’re talking about MORAL, not crucifixion. Now, can you think of anyone better suited than the US or not?
“Let me guess you just ignored the actual stats!”
“Actual stats”? From where? All I see is you bringing up a number – citation needed.
“How does this prove WMD existed?”
It’s not meant to prove that WMD existed, it’s just meant to shot down your little narrative. “Oh, there were no WMDs” – well, there were more than enough evidence to suggest Saddam had, or was trying to acquire them. Anyway, Saddam routinely broke the terms of the treaty that allowed him to stay in power after the first Gulf War – any one of those infractions were more than enough to justify an invasion.
“Because we were discussing US Military and Saddam Military deaths in Iraq and I was comparing people killing oither people”
Oh, were you? Why not start with muslim-on-Christian violence on muslim-majority countries?
“ I am against people using guns for killing others out of malice otr personal interest or for economic gain.”
You mean, you are against just as long as the US are involved. IF it has nothing to do with the US then it won’t register on your radar.