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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Rutgers displays “artwork” of Christ crucified on a dartboard, Christians worldwide riot — no, wait…

Apr 26, 2016 3:28 pm By Robert Spencer

Imagine how Rutgers would react if its Art Library displayed a cartoon of Muhammad. “Islamophobia”! Run for your safe spaces! Mandatory seminars on “respect” for “The Other”!

But Jesus crucified on a dartboard: that’s art. Don’t you respect the freedom of expression, you right-wing bigot?

A cartoon of Muhammad warning the artist not to draw him: that’s an outrage. Don’t you respect Muslims as human beings, you right-wing bigot?

This is the kind of “respect” being irrationally violent will win you. Rutgers officials knew Christians weren’t going to kill them, and that they could mock Christianity with impunity. They would only start blathering about “respect” when it comes to Islam.

Jesus dartboard

“What the hell? Artist crucifies Jesus on dartboard,” by Todd Starnes, FoxNews.com, April 25, 2016:

The art exhibit inside a campus library at Rutgers University was sickening – Jesus crucified on a dartboard.

“It is surprising that a state university would allow this,” Rutgers alum Natalie Caruso wrote on her Facebook page on April 20. “I asked them to take it down because I found it disrespectful and they refused. How is this acceptable?”

I reckon in this age of political correctness, university are required to provide “safe spaces” for student artists to commit sacrilege.

At Rutgers, that “safe space” just so happened to be inside the Art Library – in a prominent position near the circulation desk, NJ.com reported.

Why, some youngsters even believe that nailing Jesus to a cross with darts – is funny – a Comedy Central chuckle-fest.

“It’s hilarious,” wrote one student on Facebook. “We don’t have to cater to the wills of the Church or any denomination of Christianity or religion.”

However, university officials felt otherwise and two days later they had the exhibit removed – not because it was sacrilegious – but because it violated library policy.

Here’s the statement I received from Rutgers:

“The artwork in question was removed from the exhibit because it did not meet Rutgers University Libraries policy, which requires art exhibitions and their pieces to be based on university events, curricular offerings, and topics of interest to the university community. The process that the Libraries use to determine how artwork is selected for inclusion in an exhibit takes into consideration freedom of expression as well as the criteria listed above. We have concluded that the policy and process the Libraries use to select artwork for exhibitions was not followed.”

I’ve often wondered why the artistic class seems compelled to denigrate and desecrate the Sacred.

Remember the exhibit that featured the Mother Mary smeared in elephant dung? Or what about the crucifix submerged in a bottle of urine?

And yet, the God of the Islamic Radicals is off limits. It’s as if there is some sort of unwritten rule – thou shalt not profane the prophet.

I suspect the fear of a fatwa plays a significant role in their editorial process. And I can understand that.

Nobody wants to be blown to smithereens – event an idealistic, starving artist….

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Filed Under: academia, Featured, free speech Tagged With: Rutgers


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Comments

  1. Rev g says

    Apr 26, 2016 at 3:33 pm

    Tasteless. But legal. However, if one religion is fair game, all must be.

    • Alarmed Pig Farmer says

      Apr 26, 2016 at 3:42 pm

      Our next president Hillary would invert this situation and make it a felony crime to criticize a religion. At least that would even things out a bit.

      • Kepha says

        Apr 26, 2016 at 5:35 pm

        No, Shrillary Shrooooo would declare open season on traditional Christians who believe marriage is between one man and one woman–and that a man in a wig and a dress is not a “woman”, no matter how loudly he protests that he is. However, she would avert her gaze at any imam who says queers should be stoned.

        This is why NOBODY who cares about the future of the West should ever vote Democratic or, if in Europe, SD.

      • Jay Boo says

        Apr 27, 2016 at 10:41 am

        Rev g said,
        “Tasteless. But legal. However, if one religion is fair game, all must be.”
        ——————————————————————————————————

        Really?
        Is this happening with Muhammad?

        This is a State University of New Jersey —- (public university).
        They are institutionalizing the mockery of Christianity.
        With gleeful MSA approval no doubt.

        Meanwhile they bend over backward to accommodate Jesus hating Muslims in clown suits and hijabs.

        • Fessitude says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 2:55 pm

          He said “must be”, not “is”.

    • Christianblood says

      Apr 26, 2016 at 6:20 pm

      Rev g posted:

      (…Tasteless. But legal. However, if one religion is fair game, all must be…)

      Cowardly Western universities, actors and so-called Western ‘artists’ are always eager, very eager to ridicule and insult Christianity but they would show a very high respect to the islamic death cult and its founder and its evil textbook.

      • Greyhound Fancier says

        Apr 26, 2016 at 8:17 pm

        It’s reasonable fear that mocking Islam would result in actual physical harm to the “artist”.

      • gravenimage says

        Apr 30, 2016 at 11:13 pm

        Despite what “Christianblood” likes to claim, this stupidity is quite rare. There is a reason Andres Serrano from the 1980s and Chris Ofili from the 1990s are still so notorious–there are few other examples.

        He would rather the free West was like Russia, where journalists can be assassinated for the wrong expose.

    • Rob says

      Apr 27, 2016 at 3:49 am

      ‘the future must not belong to those who mock the prophet of islam’.

      • Rev g says

        Apr 27, 2016 at 4:14 am

        I’ll take my chances.

  2. Alarmed Pig Farmer says

    Apr 26, 2016 at 3:36 pm

    It is surprising that a state university would allow this…

    Yeah, you’d think that gutsy art like this would emerge in a more advanced institute of higher learning like Harvard, Yale or Columbia.

    Someone should hold a contest offering a cash prize for the best cartoon of the “artist” who created this work. No, bad idea. If that happened he’d get an associate professorship somewhere or maybe a gig at Comedy Central.

  3. Champ says

    Apr 26, 2016 at 3:46 pm

    Note what Jesus said right after being nailed to the cross:

    “Father forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing.”

    “When they came to the place called The Skull, there they crucified Him and the criminals, one on the right and the other on the left. But Jesus was saying, ‘Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing.’ And they cast lots, dividing up His garments among themselves.” — Luke 23: 33 & 34

    As a Christian, of course I find this “artwork” offensive. Even so, my attitude and response to this is that of Christ’s.

    • Ted Tyler says

      Apr 26, 2016 at 6:02 pm

      As an Atheist, I find the “artwork” in poor taste and offensive to Art.

      • Champ says

        Apr 26, 2016 at 6:15 pm

        Offensive to Art? Got it!

        And how ironic–since your comment exemplifies “poor taste” and hatred toward Christians.

        Haven’t you learned a thing? This is Jihad Watch, not Christian Watch.

        Take aim at the real enemy: islam.

        • andy from the cross says

          Apr 26, 2016 at 6:26 pm

          i read that as humorous criticism of the artist’s talent, rather than a dig at any religion.

        • Champ says

          Apr 26, 2016 at 6:56 pm

          Andy, are you kidding me? “Ted” is clearly being very dismissive toward Jesus Christ!

          He’s obviously stating that Jesus Christ doesn’t matter even one whit to him! …whereas the only thing that he does find offensive is toward “Art”, and Art alone.

          C’mon, clearly “Ted” is mocking Christianity, and me, as well.

          “Ted” is *obviously* expressing ridicule toward Christianity …

          But not all professing atheists on Jihad Watch make nasty comments like this; since several atheists here hold Christianity in high regard because of Christ’s teachings of love and peace.

        • Champ says

          Apr 26, 2016 at 8:09 pm

          andy from the cross wrote:

          i read that as humorous criticism of the artist’s talent, rather than a dig at any religion.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Yes–I agree, Andy. But that wasn’t the only message that “Ted” was conveying.

          Sorry, Andy, but you failed to see the broader message that “Ted” was sending in his comment. “Ted” is mocking Jesus Christ–and Christianity, as well–by deliberately *omitting* our LORD from the equation of things that he found offensive regarding this so-called “artwork”; so he wasn’t just making “humorous criticism” toward the artist.

        • Ted Tyler says

          Apr 26, 2016 at 9:58 pm

          I find it truly fascinating to note that some people have the remarkable ability to probe deep into a persons mind and actually see things that are not there.

        • Champ says

          Apr 26, 2016 at 11:19 pm

          Ted Tyler wrote:

          I find it truly fascinating to note that some people have the remarkable ability to probe deep into a persons mind and actually see things that are not there.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Oh please.

          Now “Ted” is pretending that he hasn’t made derogatory remarks toward Christianity over the years on JW, when in fact he has, but on other threads? On this thread he’s simply trying to be more clever.

          So I’m not seeing things that aren’t there, as he suggests, but I’ve taken note of his nasty comments about Christianity on the Whole. He’s made several derogatory remarks about Christianity on JW, over the course of time. And I generally ignore these comments, until now–now that he’s addressed me!

          Marginalizing me is NOT going to work “Ted.” So here’s your big chance to tell the class *exactly* what you think of Jesus Christ and Christianity as candidly as you’ve done in the past. Your turn “Ted”, prove me wrong.

          He won’t because he knows I’m right.

        • linnte says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 12:13 am

          Of course he does! Just grab him by the seat of his pants and toss his unhappy butt outta here! Hahahaha! I’ll help!

        • Ted Tyler says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 5:12 am

          Champ, it might be beneficial to us for me to clarify some of my positions.
          First, I am a level 7 Atheist. This means that I believe 100% that Man created God and I interpret the world with that assumption. I assume that you believe 100% that God created man and you view the world with that assumption.
          I believe that the scriptures are interesting literature – some of which is actually true.
          I believe that the Torah shows that God is evil, vindictive, and petty and has all of the bad qualities of a malicious desert warlord. I believe that Jesus was basically a good person – but he really got it wrong by predicting that the end is near. So if you want to follow someone – follow Jesus. Not Jim Jones and not Charles Manson. OMG did I forget: NOT Muhammad.
          My personal philosophy is nearly identical with that of Hitchens. Dawkins on occasion could show more compassion. I had a passion for D.M. Murdock who died of breast cancer in December of 2015. My favorite black guy is Neil DeGrasse Tyson – followed closely by ML King Jr.
          As an Atheist, I consider Faith to be a sin and not a virtue. Based on my study of how easily it is to brainwash prisoners of war, I realize that we do not have as much “free will” as we think we do. Each of us can be easily programmed to accept the philosophy of our culture – and few of us will question that philosophy. Nearly everyone accepts the religious values and doctrines imposed on them by their parents and the culture that they were born into.
          As an Atheist, I consider Christianity to be like a sniffy nose. It is a virus, it is annoying, but you can live with it. In contrast, Islam is also a virus – The Ebola Virus!
          We use confirmation bias to reinforce whatever beliefs we have. We use our intelligence to provide logical arguments to what we believe and we reject arguments that are in disagreement with our core principles. Thus it is difficult to know what is true and what is not.
          I believe that Islam is a serious threat to our freedoms. In this country, I am free to criticize God, Religion, Jesus, Christianity, Thor and Zeus if I care to do so – without fear of being killed. So in the Theocracy that Ted Cruz would impose, I would NOT be allowed to hold public office – but I would not be executed for blasphemy.

        • Champ says

          Apr 26, 2016 at 11:22 pm

          Correction: no question mark.

          I wrote:

          Now “Ted” is pretending that he hasn’t made derogatory remarks toward Christianity over the years on JW, when in fact he has, but on other threads?

          I did not intend to pose this as a question.

        • Ted Tyler says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 3:48 am

          Hi Champ, Your post:

          “Offensive to Art? Got it! And how ironic–since your comment exemplifies “poor taste” and hatred toward Christians.”

          Shows with great clarity your ability to jump to the wrong conclusion based on no evidence whatever! Astounding!

          I thought that the art was actually sort of stupid and was done by some idiot that was simply trying to get attention. Your over-reaction to a simple comment suggests that you have been trained to react with violence and hatred to Atheists.

          You interpret any comment made by an Atheist as an attack on Christianity. And you must defend Christianity with the same passion that the Muslim defends Islam. You must be offended by even hints of offence to Jesus just as the Muslim becomes hysterical with any slights to Muhammad. You wish that the entire world would be under God’s law just as the Muslim wants the entire world to be under Sharia Law. You will defend Jesus with the same passion that the Muslim will defend Muhammad.

          Your personality type indicates that you have dedication to your cause, you have strength of character, intelligence and commitment. You will follow Jesus wherever he leads you – and you would die for him. So it is clear. If you were born in Afghanistan and were brought up to believe in Allah and Muhammad instead of God and Jesus, there is no doubt that you could easily be trained to be a suicide bomber!

          I suggest that:
          1. You redirect your effort on attacking Islam and not Atheists.
          2. Reacquaint yourself with:
          a. ” There – but for the grace of God – go I”
          b. “Judge not that you be not judged”

        • Champ says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 4:37 am

          “Ted” thank you for proving my point! You truly are an abominable ass and your above comment proves it. See, I knew you had it in you, because that’s the “Ted” that I’ve come to know. So here’s an atta boy fro finally being honest! All you needed was a little coaxing to draw out that inner jerk.

          Ok, now how about answering my questions about Jesus and what you think of Christianity and of those whom have faith in God. You never bothered addressing my query. What are you ..chicken?!! Hey don’t stop now, since we can all see what an ass you truly are–there’s no sense in holding back now!

        • Westman says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 8:21 am

          It seems as if some camels have been swallowed when only a gnat flew by. I think Andy made the right interpretation, that no harm was intended. Somehow rhetoric expanded unnecessary levels.

          As an Agnostic, I see both POV and realize that Athiests are equally valid as Christian soldiers in the fight to resist the jihad and world domination of Islam. Our common value is freedom and self-determination – something for which “Allah” and his slaves would torture all of us with gleeful sadism, for eternity; starting in this life.

          We need Ted who has come to his own conclusions about religion yet has no intention of interfering with any Christian’s worship. If we polarize the counter-jihad on the basis of religion versus unbelief, we will lose the future for our children by becoming like the very thing we now commonly oppose.

        • Ted Tyler says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 8:57 am

          Thanks Westman, It is refreshing to see that at least someone views my comment regarding a bad piece of artwork as “offensive to Art” as actually not being a manifestation of “my hatred toward Christians” – as Champ claims. However, I don’t hate Christians – so this is just another example of Champ jumping to ridiculous conclusions.

          I have never made any intentionally derogatory comment about Christians – but I have been attacked by Champ and his followers for doing so. Since I am attacked for doing nothing, perhaps I should do something. Perhaps I could provoke their wrath by expanding on the theme: “Christians are not very forgiving – but Jesus was forgiving – so your claim that you are following Jesus is false.” Perhaps I could get some pointers from Randy on how to annoy people.

        • Jerry says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 8:58 am

          Ted Tyler says
          April 27, 2016 at 5:12 am

          …I believe that the Torah shows that God is evil, vindictive, and petty and has all of the bad qualities of a malicious desert warlord…
          ——————–
          I like your post. I’d vote it up if the button worked.

        • Champ says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 2:26 pm

          Ted Tyler wrote:

          “…but I have been attacked by Champ and his followers for doing so.”

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          I don’t have any “followers”, so not only is that remark profoundly stupid, but “Ted” is lying, as well; and the majority of folks on JW know that I am a woman, lol!

          And how “Ted” concludes that I have “followers” only borders on bizarre, since I am completely unaware of them myself. And I have had only *one* other exchange with “Ted”, where I challenged some of his faulthy thinking, and now he’s calling this an “attack”? Poor dear, maybe JW is too tough for “Ted”. Well, take a look in the mirror pal, since your above comment to me was a blatant “attack”, so “Ted” have zero room to talk and to take my inventory. And “Westman” is a joke for defending this jackass and giving him a pass on the outrageous remarks “Ted” leveled at me. Aw, to each his own, I suppose.

          Bottom Line: I stand by my original comment to “Ted”, and he and “Westman” don’t agree then they can go pound sand.

          I wrote to “Ted”:

          Offensive to Art? Got it “Ted”!

          And how ironic–since your comment exemplifies “poor taste” and hatred toward Christians.

          Haven’t you learned a thing? This is Jihad Watch, not Christian Watch.

          Take aim at the real enemy: islam.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Yep–that’s my story and I’m stickin’ to it! I don’t care to read any more of “Ted’s” lame lies and excuses. He HAS made rude remarks about Christians in the past, and that’s that. So he’s also lying about that.

          Notice that “Ted” still won’t answer my query about what he thinks about Jesus or Christianity. Very revealing. Guess we all know the answer, don’t we? Uh-huh.

        • Ted Tyler says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 2:59 pm

          Ok I guess that I am wrong about you having followers, but I have answered about Jesus and Christianity before.
          Jesus was a good person who died for what he believed in. Someone I would have loved to talk with.

          Christianity is a good religion and a religion that I could live with. Most Christians don’t follow the teachings of Jesus – which is a shame.

        • Rev g says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 12:45 am

          Jesus was a good person, despite claiming to be God and leading a group of men to proclaim His lies far and wide, and endure persecution, torture, and painful deaths because of Him.
          He also deluded people into thinking they had sight restored, leprosy cured, lameness removed, even that they had been restored from death! There is so much more, as well
          He obviously was a malicious deceiver of people, unless He was telling the truth.
          He can’t be “a good person” .

        • Ted Tyler says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 4:30 am

          Rev G, As an Atheist, I can understand that a Christian believes that the New Testament is historical fact. Why can the Christian not understand that the Atheist does not believe that the New Testament is historical fact?

        • rev g says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 4:44 am

          The problem is that others of the day, Jews, Romans, etc, had no problem accepting the events as true. If they did not, then what basis is there for his crucifixion?
          Also, you certainly accept other works of antiquity as true, many with larger time gaps between the events and the writings.
          The body of evidence is much greater for the Christian narrative.
          Selective acceptance of writings is otherwise known as hypocrisy. I can’t comment regarding Hindu writings, but I imagine that most of the ones you referenced are not written in anything near times contemporary to the events related. You know, contemporary versus legendary writings.
          This is why the majority of scholars do agree that the events of Christ’ life are valid.
          They have integrity.

        • rev g says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 4:55 am

          Ted, do you have any pets? Yes? Just as I thought. You are so inclined to slavery that since human ownership is illegal, you must enslave lower forms of life. I imagine you force them to perform to your whims as well, and offer them no free will. You probably force them to receive medical vaccinations and treatments they do not want, and likely have had them castrated or sterilized as well.
          You are a cruel and barbaric man!
          What, you don’t get your pets fixed or vaccinated? Have you no concern for their well-being, you ogre?
          Oh, so you have no pets. I see. You have no compassion for the plethora of innocent domestic animals put to death daily for no reason but existing and having no one to care for them.
          You truly are lacking in compassion, you are bordering on inhuman!
          See, I can give you the same undeserved treatment you reserve for God.

        • Ted Tyler says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 7:15 am

          Rev G,
          I was impressed with your post of 4:44 AM. You posed interesting topics and gave references to support your views on those topics. In that post, it would have been possible for us to have a discussion that questions the reliability of references. The discussion could take several months and at the end of that time we both would have learned a lot and neither of us would have changed our position. It would have been an interesting journey – but a journey neither of us would have had the time to take.

          I was saddened by your post of 4:55 AM asking “Do you have any pets?” Quite frankly, I was expecting more from you. Here you transform a potentially intelligent discussion into a person attack – but at least you have not resorted to personal insults – using very small words – as is characteristic of those who are intellectually challenged.

        • Champ says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 2:45 pm

          “Ted” claims that I have “followers” …wow that’s awesome! Problem is: where are they? Who are they?

          Hey if you’re a “follower” of mine then please give me a Shout-Out! …since I have NO idea who you guys are. Gosh I only Wish, lol! 😀

          “Ted” you’re a clown!

        • Fessitude says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 3:04 pm

          Ted Tyler was doing so well (in his post of April 27, 2016 at 5:12 am), sounding oh so reasonable and level-headed, until he had a wardrobe malfunction toward the very end and blurted out preposterous nonsense revealing some other “level” of atheist that is indeed phobic about Christianity, contradicting his other remarks in that same post blandly affecting to minimize his qualms about it:

          “So in the Theocracy that Ted Cruz would impose…”

        • Ted Tyler says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 3:33 pm

          Thanks for letting me get at least part way through my post unscathed, but be aware that we atheists get flack from both Christians and Muslims. I am not just a simple Atheist. I am a Christian Apostate. Thank God that I was never a Muslim!

          George Bush Sr. is very down on Atheists – and as far as George Bush Jr. goes – what can you say about a person who believes that Islam is a religion of peace and has trouble with simple math? And Ted Cruz’s view on Atheists?… Check out the video:
          http://americablog.com/2015/11/religious-liberty-advocate-ted-cruz-atheists-not-fit-president.html

        • Rev g says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 12:23 am

          Wow, so those three have opinions regarding atheists. All have had positions that could legislate or hope to influence public opinion.
          How bad did they make life for you?

        • Champ says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 3:20 pm

          Ted wrote:

          Ok I guess that I am wrong about you having followers, but I have answered about Jesus and Christianity before. Jesus was a good person who died for what he believed in. Someone I would have loved to talk with.

          Christianity is a good religion and a religion that I could live with. Most Christians don’t follow the teachings of Jesus – which is a shame.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Ok, but you also wrote this about Christianity back in December:

          Ted Tyler says
          December 25, 2015 at 9:30 am

          Christianblood,
          I object to you making an association with Atheist and Islam. In general, Atheists don’t like religion – but they really hate Islam. Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens (rest his soul) were not happy with people believing in the supernatural however, they were particularly unhappy with Islam since it traps your mind in a prison from which only few can escape. Be aware that the Atheist goal is not to destroy religion, but rather to get religion out of the schools and into the churches – so that the kids will have a place to learn reality (the schools) and then have a place to indulge in their comforting fantasies (the Churches).
          The good news is that Christianity has advanced quite a bit from the time that Christians were burning people alive for divergent thinking. Christianity, at least for now, is only a minor threat to free thought. Islam, on the other hand, is a serious threat – since Sharia law does not separate Church and State. Since Muslim on Christian crime is protected by political correctness and the concept of Islamophobia, the Muslim populations will increase until they obtain a majority of the population. Then, Sharia Law will be imposed and the advance of Science will stop. I would much rather live under the theocracy of Ted Cruz than under Sharia Law.

          This thread:
          https://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/12/new-jersey-muslim-teacher-files-suit-claiming-she-was-fired-from-high-school-because-she-was-muslim

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          So on this thread “Ted” is really toning down his opinions of Christianity, but on the other thread back in December “Ted” stated the above, and this in particular:

          Ted wrote:

          “Be aware that the Atheist goal is not to destroy religion, but rather to get religion out of the schools and into the churches – so that the kids will have a place to learn reality (the schools) and then have a place to indulge in their comforting fantasies (the Churches).”

          Oh, how thoughtful of you “Ted” to encourage parents that they may teach their little ones their “comforting FANTASIES” in Church, and yet on this thread, “Ted” pretends to be all warm and fuzzy toward Christianity by stating:

          “Christianity is a good religion and a religion that I could live with.”

          “Ted” had one thing to state about Christianity back in December, which was very derogatory toward Christianity; but now–when asked point black–he has softened his opinion quite a bit!

          So which is it, “Ted”? Is Christianity a “comforting FANTASY”, or a “good religion”? Hey these are your own words, so why don’t YOU explain the difference.

          “Ted” pretends that he isn’t hostile toward Christianity. Oh please! And some of you like “Westman” obviously hasn’t read some of “Ted’s” other remarks. But I have.

          I am not basing my initial response to “Ted” solely on what hes written here, but on prior comments from “Ted”; also, I’m basing this on one very unpleasant exchange I had last month, with “Ted.”

        • Ted Tyler says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 4:01 pm

          Thanks Champ (I never thought that I would say that) but I have not beek keeping track of my previous posts or anyone else. I should. There are a lot of good ideas that should be organized ..(the road to hell is paved with good intentions)

          When my wife and I were training for a road race at a track we were approached to this women who had to tell us about her life. She was a former prostitute who had to “give herself to men”. But now she found Jesus and gives herself to Jesus. This is a good thing. Whether or not Jesus is real is not relevant. The important thing is that she thinks that Jesus is real and then she will lead her life in a manner that will reduce her chances of getting bad diseases. Same thing goes for criminals in our prisons. Then need some sort of guidance. (Unfortunately some of them are getting their religion from Islam. that is NOT a good thing) Religion is very comforting. When you die you will go to Heaven and live happily ever after. Fine. Go and do your religious rituals on Sunday. Meditation is good for you – but keep the religion out of the classroom. Remember, Atheists think that talking snakes and the myth of the flood is totally ridiculous and the bit about Lot and his wife can only be described as disgusting.

          Anyway, Christianity is a good religion and I recognize that most people are better with religion than without it. So I am OK with Christianity – I just don’t want it to dominate my life (and particularly I don’t want to be forced to pray 5 times a day.

        • Champ says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 3:29 pm

          Fessitude wrote:

          “Ted Tyler was doing so well (in his post of April 27, 2016 at 5:12 am), sounding oh so reasonable and level-headed, until he had a wardrobe malfunction toward the very end and blurted out preposterous nonsense revealing some other “level” of atheist that is indeed phobic about Christianity, contradicting his other remarks in that same post blandly affecting to minimize his qualms about it” …

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Precisely, Fessitude!

          I did notice “Ted’s” glaring contradiction on this thread, and for the reasons that you noted. I mean they’re very obvious! And I was hoping that “Westman” would catch it and say something, so thank you for pointing this out. But no, instead “Westman” is overlooking these glaring contradictions from “Ted” and defending him anyway. Wow.

        • Lion of Judah's Cub says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 3:46 pm

          Ted,

          The proscription, “judge not lest ye be judged”, refers to judging whether a man’s (or woman’s) soul deserves heaven or hell; that is Jesus’ prerogative. We are called to judge good from evil, right from wrong, and moral from immoral.

          Your analysis that the God of the Torah is vindictive, petty etc. is absurd and ridiculous. Who are you to judge and slander the Creator of the universe? Another person with a false claim to moral and intellectual superiority. God is the source of all goodness, truth, beauty, love, kindness, virtue and order.

          In the words of YHWH to Job (Job 38:2-4): “Who is this, obscuring my intentions with his ignorant words? … Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundations? Tell me, since you are so well-informed!”

          The unfortunates in the Old Testament sewed the whirlwind and reaped the whirlwind. They chose wickedness and evil rather than living according to the teachings of God, and they suffered the natural and sometimes supernatural consequences of their evil. Innocents also suffered the whirlwind sewed by their contemporaries as, for instance, victims of crime suffer the evil consequences of a criminal’s evil choices.

          Jesus, God Himself, intervened in the natural and supernatural consequences of our evil choices by his loving ultimate sacrifice on Calvary. For a God-hating world Christ died to save us from death and eternal damnation/separation from God. If we accept Christ as our Lord and Savior and live according to His teachings we avoid judgment and the second death and we enjoy Christ’s presence in eternity. If we reject Christ, we will be judged and only Jesus knows what the outcome will be.

          Jesus loves every human person, including atheists and muslims, and calls each of us to Himself.

        • Ted Tyler says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 4:12 pm

          Thanks for the interpretation; however, as I see it, the tide of Islam is washing away our culture and “accepting Jesus Christ as our lord and Savior” will not stop it.

        • Fessitude says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 4:15 pm

          Ted Tyler only dug himself deeper by proffering that video of Ted Cruz merely saying at some rally before some audience of (apparently) committed Christians that (to paraphrase) any President who does not get on his knees and pray every morning to God is “not fit to be President”. The fact that Ted Tyler with a straight face can think he’s being reasonable by making the leap from that to the prospect of a “Theocracy” (with a capital T no less) should Cruz win, only goes to demonstrate why atheists (most of them, from my experience) have a screw loose and when the issue of religion comes up — even in the context of the Counter-Jihad — they seem to let their Christophobia take over and gum up the gears in their brain. I’d wager to say that most of the Presidents America has had from George Washington to now have felt more or less the sentiment spoken by Cruz at that rally; but we never had a “Theocracy” under their Presidencies, did we?

        • Champ says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 4:36 pm

          “Ted” is a pretentious clown, and his glaring contempt for Christianity, on this thread, is here for all to see. Not to mention his glaring contradictions about his character. One the one hand he claims to be a ‘nice guy’, but his horrible and mean-spirited comments reveal otherwise.

          So if you still choose to defend “Ted” and his contemptuous comments, then you’re doing so with willful ignorance. Please read his nasty comments before jumping to his defense.

        • Champ says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 4:59 pm

          “Ted” wrote:

          Thanks Champ. I knew that I could get an interesting and intense response from you with only slight provocation. However, I do want to apologize for some of the typos in my last few posts. I should slow down a bit to be sure that the spelling is OK.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          No, thank you, for proving–once again–that you truly are an unmitigated ass. Now everyone can see it for themselves.

          Projection Alert …

          Ironically, you’re the one who’s easily upset, and you made waaay too much of things I’ve written to you. This is obvious, since you felt the need to take another swipe at me. Makes me laugh that you don’t recognize something so painfully obvious in yourself! You’re a gifted liar, even to yourself.

          Remember, you’re the one that wrote me *first*, so please take some ownership of that. And if you’re going to write me, then I’m going to respond. And if you don’t agree with response, then fine. But take it like a man, next time. If you can. If you dare.

        • gravenimage says

          Apr 30, 2016 at 11:29 pm

          Ted Tyler wrote, in reply to Champ:

          You interpret any comment made by an Atheist as an attack on Christianity.
          …………………………….

          This is not true at all, Ted–Champ and Wellington and Mirren10 are all very friendly, the latter of whom are both Atheists. They are all strong allies against Jihad.

          More:

          And you must defend Christianity with the same passion that the Muslim defends Islam.
          …………………………….

          Uh huh. You consider Champ’s measured replies to you the same as death threats and plotted terror attacks? Really?

      • andy from the cross says

        Apr 28, 2016 at 8:31 am

        wow, that turned into a lot of words…
        anyway as an atheist with christian values i was neither offended or impressed by the alleged artwork. (i would have had jesus in a clown suit on a spinning knife-thrower’s target.)

        i can understand why this can cause offence, but ask yourselves – offended enough to start killing people?

        and that is why we are here. we are ummat-al-kafir. we must live and let live, and stand united against those who believe otherwise.

        • Ted Tyler says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 9:13 am

          Yes, Andy, the comment: “As an Atheist, I find the “artwork” in poor taste and offensive to Art.” was intended as a humorous side note and actually an attack on the artists’ artistic ability and judgment.

          Instead Christians hopped all over it and interpreted it as an attack of Jesus. This is very telling – and it tells us that these Christians are essentially over-programmed by their religious training. Like Pavlov’s dogs they immediately pounce on anything an Atheist might say. Evidently they see the word Atheist, the blood pressure rises, hormones soar and they go into attack mode. They must immediately jump to the defense of their imaginary God. They have no choice. They have no free will. They are irreversibly programmed.

          So if Christians – who are supposed to follow the peaceful, forgiving teachings of Jesus – can attack with such intensity – with essentially no provocation, what would a Muslim do – who is supposed to emulate the murderous, vengeful Muhammad? Perhaps Dawkins in right. The problem is not so much a problem with Islam – the problem is religion itself. People believing is supernatural fantasies, believing that their God is the only true God, and then killing people based on the writings of their ancient holly texts.

        • Mirren10 says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 9:34 am

          ”The problem is not so much a problem with Islam – the problem is religion itself. People believing is supernatural fantasies, believing that their God is the only true God, and then killing people based on the writings of their ancient holly texts.”

          What crap. islam is the *only* religion in the world today that murders people based on what is written in the koran, hadith, and sira.

          When was the last time we saw any denomination of Christian, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, Jews, or any other religion, murdering people whilst shrieking their God is greater, and quoting from the Bible, or any other religious text ? ? Only mohammedans.

          Your attempt at moral equivalence is ridiculous.

        • Ted Tyler says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 9:44 am

          There was a time when Christians burned witches. Now they have stopped doing that. Why? What forces came into play to cause this change? Could those same forces be directed to stop Muslims from decapitating people?

        • ECAW says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 12:15 pm

          No. Hope this helps.

        • Ted Tyler says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 12:59 pm

          Actually it does. It was a different time, a different situation, and many different factors. I sort of knew that that was the answer. I just needed a second opinion.

        • Mirren10 says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 9:56 am

          ”There was a time when Christians burned witches. Now they have stopped doing that. Why?”

          Several reasons, foremost, the Enlightenment, plus Christianity, and most other religions except islam, encourage critical thinking.

          ”Why? What forces came into play to cause this change?”

          See above.

          ”Could those same forces be directed to stop Muslims from decapitating people?”

          No. You need to read the koran.

        • Jack Diamond says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 10:24 am

          “The problem is not so much a problem with Islam – the problem is religion itself”

          And this is their nutshell: the problem is religion not the particular religion, which is a total and all-encompassing socio-political-economic system, of Islam. The one with 28,000 deadly terror attacks since 9/11. The one imperiling Europe and North America with hijrah and jihad. No, the problem is the belief in God and the cause (and crusade) of atheism is therefore more important than the counter jihad. Forget the lessons of the 20th century and the millions dead from specifically irreligious ideologies, get rid of the idea of God and Miss America can finally proclaim World Peace. This is considered Higher Intelligence.

    • Jerry says

      Apr 27, 2016 at 7:56 am

      JMB says
      April 26, 2016 at 5:38 pm

      It would be god if contributors to this web site could show respect for Christianity a faith that is part of and responsible for our heritage and also a faith which is the total antithesis of Islam.

      Is that the same as saying the ugly truth can’t be spoken? Do the views and statements of others have to meet your requirements before they are shared, holy one? I know you were referring to me. I just need to know where you’re going to be so I can submit my comments for your approval. I certainly wouldn’t want to risk offending the nonsensical beliefs of others with frank truth.

    • Mark Swan says

      Apr 27, 2016 at 6:59 pm

      Reply To: Lion of Judah’s Cub says
      April 27, 2016 at 3:46 pm

      Good Comment…thank You.

    • gravenimage says

      Apr 30, 2016 at 11:17 pm

      Hear, hear, Champ!

  4. Cecilia Ellis says

    Apr 26, 2016 at 3:49 pm

    “I suspect the fear of a fatwa plays a significant role in their editorial process. And I can understand that. Nobody wants to be blown to smithereens . . . ”

    Had those art students depicted Muhammad on a dart board, Rutger’s Art Library would now be a smoldering pile of ruins.

  5. Shmooviyet says

    Apr 26, 2016 at 4:10 pm

    Awestruck by this display of bravery!

    “We don’t have to cater to the wills of the Church or any denomination of Christianity or religion”, says one snotty, albeit tolerant, brat.

    Ha ha– nope! Only the wills of an ideology of blood lust, rape and slavery. THERE is where you’re doing your ‘catering’, dumb—.

  6. Angemon says

    Apr 26, 2016 at 4:22 pm

    I’ve often wondered why the artistic class seems compelled to denigrate and desecrate the Sacred.

    IMO it’s because, historically, the “artistic class” has been known for pushing boundaries and defying taboos. Which makes it surprising why they’re still harping on Christianity rather than moving on to fresher pastures. The religious right is done for. The new totalitarian religious bullies on the block are islam and muslims. Of course, the religious right, even at their heyday (the 80’s and 90’s), were not going around killing “blasphemers” so comparing them with islam and muslims is simply not fair. Heck, even comparing them with the regressive left is unfair for them – the regressive left has a totalitarian streak the religious right wouldn’t even dare to dream of.

  7. Guest says

    Apr 26, 2016 at 4:36 pm

    Those who refuse my lords mercy are not worthy of any attention. We are civilized.

    • Thought_Weaver says

      Apr 27, 2016 at 1:35 am

      If that was a sarcasm….a good one indeed. Cheers! ?

      • Guest says

        Apr 27, 2016 at 9:15 pm

        No, I’m dead serious. I am a Christian and I am proud. Jesus is my savior and this sort of things insults me on his behalf. However Jesus taught us to be kind, so instead of hunting down this man who insults Jesus I choose to pity him because he has rejected the true love of God and never will. You can call me whatever you want a fool, superstitiously ignorant, nothing you say will make me stop loving God and Jesus even if a gun is pointed at me. I’m allowed to say I love Jesus, it’s my first amendment right. And if you don’t like it, please be mature about it and keep it to yourself.

        • Mark Swan says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 11:54 pm

          Good Comment Guest…Soundly Stated

  8. Hope says

    Apr 26, 2016 at 4:56 pm

    The hypocrisy of the Left is beyond belief.

    • Jay Boo says

      Apr 27, 2016 at 2:01 am

      Go visit as a Muslim couple dressed in full Islamic clown suits and watch them grovel to be the first to kiss butts.

  9. linnte says

    Apr 26, 2016 at 5:15 pm

    Jesus WAS targeted by officials of his time. He was crucified because he was dangerous(and it was the plan). I don’t find this offending, but I don’t consider it “art” either; and I am an artist. This is collage of a sort, which anyone can do talent or no. An artist has a “talent”, like mechanics have a talent, Doctors, Nurses and other people who are crafty, have talent and are artists of a sort. Slapping different pictures that one cuts from a magazine or gathering items and putting them together, isn’t talent, it makes up for lack of talent. Many ” collage artists”would disagree though! Hahahaha!

  10. billybob says

    Apr 26, 2016 at 5:21 pm

    Well you know – if I was an artist, I would make a drawing or a painting of Muhammad sitting proudly atop a camel, leading the Pope behind with a cord tied to a ring in his nose…

    • JMB says

      Apr 26, 2016 at 7:56 pm

      I gather that this is your comment on the state of religious leadership in our present age, perhaps you are correct.

      Now if you were to produce your painting and have it prominently displayed;

      1, Would you be under a death sentence for producing an image of The Prophet?, Probably.
      2, Would there be riots and condemnation from the Catholic world? It would be interesting to know.

  11. Paul says

    Apr 26, 2016 at 5:38 pm

    Isn’t this the same place where a bunch of insane female SJWs
    smeared themselves with fake period blood (classy) and started
    screaming just because a young British conservative was giving a
    speech there? Students there were also apparently so “triggered”
    by his presence that they had to attend therapy sessions – even
    people who weren’t there at the time!
    I digress, but it tells you all you need to about the
    incredibly disturbed mentality of the inmates that now run the asylum.

    • mortimer says

      Apr 26, 2016 at 5:51 pm

      What you refer to is an example of the ‘heckler’s veto’ defined by Justice Sloviter as follows-

      “A heckler’s veto is an IMPERMISSIBLE content-based RESTRICTION on speech where the speech is prohibited due to an ANTICIPATED DISORDERLY or VIOLENT reaction of the audience.”

      • Paul says

        Apr 26, 2016 at 6:22 pm

        Thanks for the info on how it’s defined. Yes, I checked before and it was
        indeed the same place where the aforementioned occurred. From the
        craziness directed at Milo Yiannopoulos at his talk to this latest monstrosity.
        They’re carving out some reputation for themselves.

  12. mortimer says

    Apr 26, 2016 at 5:46 pm

    This artistic installation is a sly commentary on the double standards and fear of being attacked by the jihadists. I applaud the insight of the artist. There is, moreover, a certain unseemly game that some people play in making religion a source of foolish sport and light-headed comment without having the depth to comment at all.

    I believe that examples of blasphemy by artists (such as this) are all produced with a very serious purpose, that of making us reconsider our smugness and think outside the box. Muslims are unable to think outside the box of Islam. Christians can they think outside the box, especially Christian artists, as can other religionists and most agnostics.

    • linnte says

      Apr 26, 2016 at 6:02 pm

      I read that into this piece too, but still don’t agree it is “art”. Anyone can make a political or religious commentary. An artist creates. I may be biased though! Hahahahahaha!

      • Miao Zedong says

        Apr 27, 2016 at 1:18 am

        I’m more into multifacetted, staged artwork in which this dartboard would be just a part and beginning. Ask local muslims solidarity to help remove it out of respect for christian feelings and tape the reactions. A mosque would be a wonderful place. Just make sure that the pinned Jeus is well known. Later go to the next stage enhancing art concept by pinning a mohammed cartoon next to Jesus….

        • Thought_Weaver says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 1:38 am

          Totally agree….well said.

      • Jay Boo says

        Apr 27, 2016 at 2:05 am

        Mortimer (the Mind Reader) said,
        “This artistic installation is a sly commentary on the double standards ”

        What!
        commentary on the double standards ????

        That is a sly load of Bull Crap — even for you mort.

    • Ted Tyler says

      Apr 26, 2016 at 6:17 pm

      Mortimer, could you be overthinking the artists motivation somewhat? Perhaps it was done by some smart-ass kid whose only motivation was to be both cute and offensive.

      • Jay Boo says

        Apr 27, 2016 at 2:06 am

        Mortimer is just plain — Full of Sh-t

    • Myxlplik says

      Apr 26, 2016 at 6:53 pm

      That’s my take on it as well Mortimer. The art should have stayed up, to illustrate, that Christianity is open to criticism, as any other idea should be in Western Civilization.

      I’m not sure what the artists motivation was, but the implications of the choice of icons is pretty clear cut considering current events. It’s a shame that it was taken down, it is a teachable moment, thus it’s art.

      • Jay Boo says

        Apr 27, 2016 at 2:09 am

        Myxlplik
        Do you honestly believe that —
        This artistic installation was intended as a sly commentary on the double standards as Mortimer suggests.

        Mortimer is being shamelessly dishonest to make such a claim

      • Fessitude says

        Apr 27, 2016 at 3:16 pm

        “the implications of the choice of icons is pretty clear cut considering current events”

        Oh, you mean all the jihadists who are killing people with darts…?

        • Myxlplik says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 4:33 pm

          Uuuhhh, wrong. Back to the drawing board.

    • gravenimage says

      Apr 30, 2016 at 11:44 pm

      Mortimer wrote:

      This artistic installation is a sly commentary on the double standards and fear of being attacked by the jihadists. I applaud the insight of the artist.
      ……………………

      Mortimer. I have spent enough time around academic art departments–I very much doubt there is *any* reason to believe that there is some sort of sophisticated comment about the threat of Jihad here.

      Instead, this is what it appears to be–bad art and a cheap shot at an easy target what will not respond beyond restrained verbal criticism–if that.

      • linnte says

        May 1, 2016 at 12:11 am

        I can see the symbolism, but I don’t call this Art. Even Jackson Pollack had a method! This is collage work. Anyone without knowledge of, form, color, line, spacial, perspective and design etc can put together a collage.

        • gravenimage says

          May 1, 2016 at 2:52 pm

          Sadly, linnte, this is what all too much “art” consists of in our time. “Fine art” as such is pretty much dead. Even Pollock died sixty years ago.

          There is a lot of interesting stuff going on in illustration, and there is a healthy neo-realist revival that is struggling to get recognition these days, but most of what is coming out of academic art departments is very much like this stupidity out of Rutgers.

        • linnte says

          May 1, 2016 at 4:27 pm

          Here in my area are many artists who produce classic “good” art, so I guess I’m spoiled. (Including myself! hahahaha!) There are even a few collage artists that I consider as artists. But to me, very few collage people create true art. It’s more of a craft, like something one can make from a craft store, like this Jesus on the dart board. I sure wish there was a way to show you my stuff! How about if I give you my email? Is that possible?

        • gravenimage says

          May 1, 2016 at 8:56 pm

          I’d love to get your email, linnte–but this is always a security issue, which is why a haven’t posted my own email here.

          I have been able to get in touch with a few posters here at JW–but this is always rather difficult. Some posters set up temporary emails to get in touch with people, then change them when they have had a chance to exchange information.

  13. bobm says

    Apr 26, 2016 at 5:51 pm

    only a profound sadness; that so many know Him not… …

    • EYESOPEN says

      Apr 26, 2016 at 7:23 pm

      Agreed Bob.

    • ECAW says

      Apr 27, 2016 at 3:25 am

      Why do you put it in 17th century English? Does it add something?

      What’s wrong with “…that so many do not know him”?

      • Champ says

        Apr 27, 2016 at 3:36 am

        ECAW, what a silly thing to point out here. So what if bobm stated it that way.

        • ECAW says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 4:47 am

          I was just about to add that I since realised it was probably a quote from the King James Version, and I only realised that because I remembered the phrase from the novel Tom Jones…you see I know less about the religion I was raised in than the one I have come to regard as my enemy.

          Even so, I do think it silly that religious people often express themselves in Olde Englishe as though it is more religious. Even Muslims do, in some of the translations of the Koran.

        • Fessitude says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 3:19 pm

          Methinks perchance ECAW hath wandereth into the wrong chamber, supposing himself to be in the assembly hall of “Archaic English Watch”…

        • Champ says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 4:41 pm

          ECAW wrote:

          Even so, I do think it silly that religious people often express themselves in Olde Englishe as though it is more religious.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Oh come on! ..what you really think is that *anything* religious people have to express is silly, right? The fact that you took issue with such a minor issue demonstrates this outright.

        • ECAW says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 2:57 am

          Quite wrong Champ, and I’m sorry to see you jumping so energetically to the wrong conclusion. When people talk in Olde Englishe or adopt the sepulchral tones I used to hear as a choirboy in my local village church quite a long time ago it makes me think they are content with the trappings of religion rather than the search for the transcendant reality religions promise. The finger pointing rather than the moon, the bus stop rather than the bus, the outward show rather than the inner reality. Having said that, if I had realised it was an actual quote (which I think it is) I wouldn’t have piped up.

          I have investigated various religious traditions (not Christianity) and failed to find anything myself but good luck to those who have.

          Anyway, as a peace offering, here is something I found fascinating and which I suspect you will too though possibly for different reasons:

          http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3559563/Sparks-really-fly-new-life-formed-Images-reveal-fireworks-occur-moment-sperm-meets-egg.html

      • Ted Tyler says

        Apr 27, 2016 at 6:21 am

        17th century English suggests that you a quoting scripture. It also has a nice ring to it.

    • Champ says

      Apr 27, 2016 at 3:37 am

      bobm wrote:

      only a profound sadness; that so many know Him not… …

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Indeed, bobm. I feel the profound sadness, too.

  14. Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY) says

    Apr 26, 2016 at 6:35 pm

    Isa (pbuh), a prophet of Islam, is being blasphemed in a Rutgers University library? Doesn’t Rutgers University have a Muslim Student Association? Why yes, yes it does: http://muslimsofrutgers.com/
    (I’m waiting for a reply to my inquiry to the RU MSA about the sharia compliance of this event.)

    • linnte says

      Apr 26, 2016 at 6:54 pm

      Hadn’t thought of that! Yes, where is the Muslim outrage at the impropriety of their Prophet? They don’t recognise THIS Jesus because they don’t believe he was CRUCIFIED!

      • Mirren10 says

        Apr 26, 2016 at 8:20 pm

        ”And it has symbolic meaning too. Christ is god’s sacrificial lamb (allegedly), and the dart board represents mankind’s own theological attempt at attaining salvation and knowledge of god”

        Oh, for crying out loud. What a load of pretentious, arty farty bullshit.

        Christ was not a ‘sacrificial lamb’, in the sense of being a victim. Christian theology states He *voluntarily* sacrificed Himself in order to redeem the sins of humanity. He died a horribly cruel and agonising death, about which there is nothing ‘artistic’ whatsoever, and I, for one, find nothing ‘symbolic’, or ‘representative’ in this tasteless piece of crap.

        Whoever this little turd is, he/she has picked on a symbol of a man who died a horrible and agonising death, for what He believed was the redemption of man. This pretentious, pathetic little fucker won’t have the guts to draw a cartoon of the foul mohammed, who died for no-one.

        • Jerry says

          Apr 26, 2016 at 9:09 pm

          lol. I’ve met Christians like you before. You aren’t arguing with me you’re arguing with yourself. haha! Yes sweetheart, Jesus loves you. Now say a prayer and go to bed. The adults would like to talk. lol

          This pretentious, pathetic little fucker…

          Whoa! someone needs to go to confession! lol

        • Angemon says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 10:42 am

          Jerry posted:

          “lol. I’ve met Christians like you before.”

          Seeing how Mirren is aself- professed agnostic, I’m guessing “Christians” is a blanket term you use to refer to people who correct your blatant lack of knowledge of the Christian faith.

        • Jay Boo says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 2:15 am

          Jerry
          You are really showing your ass.

          If you were honest and not so full of yourself you would debate the points listed instead digging into your bag of name-calling clichés.

        • Thought_Weaver says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 2:49 am

          Yes sweetheart, Jesus loves you. Now say a prayer and go to bed. The adults would like to talk. lol

          ———————-

          Rofl Jerry stop it now hahaha! 😀

        • Mirren10 says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 6:38 am

          Jerry says:

          ”lol. I’ve met Christians like you before. You aren’t arguing with me you’re arguing with yourself. haha! Yes sweetheart, Jesus loves you. Now say a prayer and go to bed. The adults would like to talk. lol”

          A couple of points here. Firstly, I’m not a Christian, I’m agnostic. Secondly, Jerry has engaged with none of the points I made, but has replied with a childish and dismissive contempt, answering nothing. This is not the way *adults* talk, but is indicative of the way the left, and mohammedan apologists do, also children who think the intelligent response to an argument is to stick one’s tongue out, saying ”yah boo sucks to you.”

          And it is typical of the way Jerry reacts to any criticism of his ‘arguments’, as we have seen before.

          ”This pretentious, pathetic little fucker…

          Whoa! someone needs to go to confession! lol”

          Again, a typically childish response. But I shouldn’t be surprised, since Jerry thinks the perpetrator of this piece is neither pretentious or pathetic, but is a cutting edge ‘artist’. So why didn’t this ‘artist’ portray *mohammed* on a dartboard ? Because he/she is a *coward*, who knows Christians won’t attack/murder him or her, but mohammedans *will*.

        • Jerry says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 7:37 am

          So why didn’t this ‘artist’ portray *mohammed* on a dartboard ?

          You might as well ask why an artist paints a blue sky instead of a grey, or an abstract work of art over a traditional. Maybe the artist was in a Jesus kind of mood and wanted to show his reverence, not every thing is a conspiracy ya know.

          You’re way too angry and petty about all this. Drink a beer and relax.

        • Mirren10 says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 7:47 am

          ”You’re way too angry and petty about all this. Drink a beer and relax.”

          To reiterate, this is typical of the way Jerry reacts to any criticism of his ‘arguments’, as we have seen before. Very childish.

        • Angemon says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 10:35 am

          “Oh, for crying out loud. What a load of pretentious, arty farty bullshit.”

          Right? It reads like something out of salon or huffpo.

        • Thought_Weaver says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 5:09 pm

          @*old man* Fessitude.
          Who told you that atheists think “all religions suck”? What we know for sure is that all religions are not the same and that they have different implications. Some are totally insane but harmless, some have very clear messages but dangerous directives. Some are very confusing and make people do and say ridiculous and illogical things.

          And for your kind information *old man* I do know what perils islam holds. Do not bother to manage us rather manage your co-religionist child raping priests, homophobic believers, wishers of end of times etc. That would do humanity a great service. Go for it….start rightaway.

        • Mark Swan says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 5:27 pm

          Reply To: Mirren10 says April 26, 2016 at 8:20 pm
          Good comment…It covered this well

        • gravenimage says

          Apr 30, 2016 at 11:51 pm

          Jerry wrote, replying to Mirren10:

          lol. I’ve met Christians like you before.
          ……………………

          I think not. MIrren is well-known here as a rational Agnostic.

    • DFD says

      Apr 26, 2016 at 11:11 pm

      Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY) says: “…(I’m waiting for a reply to my inquiry to the RU MSA about the sharia compliance of this event.)”

      Obviously, you are a man of the greatest, the utmost patience. Don’t wait too long though…

    • Fessitude says

      Apr 27, 2016 at 3:23 pm

      Muslims wouldn’t care because according to the Koran, it wasn’t really Isa up on the cross.

      Koran 4:157 begins by saying that the wicked Jews thought “We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah’s messenger” — then goes on to say that, however, “they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them.”

      In the tafsir on Ibn Kathir on this verse, he goes on to clarify that Allah chose a “double” who looked like Isa to substitute for him on the cross, in order to fool the wicked Jews.

  15. Jerry says

    Apr 26, 2016 at 6:36 pm

    I like this Jesus-on-a-dart-board. It reminds me of Leonardo’s Vitruvian Man, his vision of the ideal man according to math. The numbers on the dart board seem to reinforce this.

    And it has symbolic meaning too. Christ is god’s sacrificial lamb (allegedly), and the dart board represents mankind’s own theological attempt at attaining salvation and knowledge of god. The imposition of Christ over the dart board emphasizes the superior nature of Christ over any system man can create. You can shoot for “bulls eyes” all your life, but only those darts through the hands, feet, and side of Christ can bring one to spiritual victory. It’s all so obvious, I don’t know why nobody else saw this.;

    • linnte says

      Apr 26, 2016 at 6:52 pm

      Good analysis!

      • Jerry says

        Apr 26, 2016 at 7:14 pm

        All those years of psychotherapy paid off! lol

        • linnte says

          Apr 26, 2016 at 8:57 pm

          Hahahahaha! Well, I guess my shrink wasn’t as good as yours! Hahaha! I liked your story about the 6th grade. It makes all the world of difference when a teacher praises a student. Like my Nursing instructor did to me in front of the whole class, cuz I aced the Cardiac test and was the only one. I was in cloud nine for a week! Hahahaha!

    • Jerry says

      Apr 26, 2016 at 7:13 pm

      This all reminds me of something from my childhood I’d like to share even though I know nobody will care. In 6th grade art class we made plaster of paris projects. We could make anything we wanted. So I made a six inch crucifix, but the Christ had the head of a donkey. I’d seen this in a book someplace and thought it was cool looking. I worked hard and carefully on it and was quite proud of it. Even then I had an atheist streak because the woman who raised me was a kooky Christian fundamentalist, it was my way of rebelling. One day the principal came in and talked to the teacher while I sat working at my desk. He looked down and saw my donkey headed Jesus and turned an angry eye at the teacher and said, “Can he do that?” My teacher just looked at me but said nothing. The principal walked out. I thought, cripes, I’m dead. They’re going to call my “mom” and I’m going to get a good Christian beating.

      Well long story short, my parents never said a word because they never called. A couple days later I got my project back from the teacher with no grade visible. “Hey, why didn’t I get a grade?” I protested. She walked up to me proudly with her hands in her pocket and said, check the bottom. I turned it over and there was an “A+” on the back. I kept that thing for 20 years, but as things tend to do, it disappeared. But I’ve never forgot the joy I felt over that grade, and the fact that she valued artistic merit over religious sensibilities.

      I can understand how crude depictions of sacred symbols can be offensive. But when people want to kill or harm you for it then they lose their moral vantage, and instead their response becomes the “offense.”

      • abad says

        Apr 26, 2016 at 7:23 pm

        Do you mean, the Alexamenos graffito?

        Nowadays I doubt most 6th graders would even know what that is. 🙂 You must have been the “bookish” type. Probably why you got the A+, too.

        • Jerry says

          Apr 26, 2016 at 7:35 pm

          Yeah I’m pretty sure that was it, I was too lazy to Google it. And I think it may have been in a book belonging to my brother, but we’re talking decades here so I don’t recall for sure. I wasn’t that bookish, it was just something I stumbled upon in early life like so many other things. Had I seen a picture of Mother Mary in dung I probably would have made that instead, religion was already a bad experience for me even at that young age. Probably why I dislike it so much today. And hey! you forgot to grade my story! Did I get an A+? LOL

        • abad says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 7:49 pm

          “And hey! you forgot to grade my story! Did I get an A+? LOL”

          I give you an A+ for your story. And thanks for sharing it!

      • Mirren10 says

        Apr 26, 2016 at 8:32 pm

        ”So I made a six inch crucifix, but the Christ had the head of a donkey. I’d seen this in a book someplace and thought it was cool looking”

        You are pathetic. What was your next ‘art’ project ? An ‘artistic’ representation of Jews going to the gas chamber, all with the heads of donkey’s ? Idiot.

        • Jerry says

          Apr 26, 2016 at 8:45 pm

          I guess that means I get a “thumbs down”? lol

        • linnte says

          Apr 26, 2016 at 9:01 pm

          Hahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!

        • Ted Tyler says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 4:05 am

          Jerry, Yes. Donkey Jesus is also in poor taste. But then you were very young.

        • Jerry says

          Apr 26, 2016 at 8:53 pm

          …and I was only in 6th grade after all. I’d like to see your list of bad judgment and foolish behavior from youth. Remember what Christ said about casting stones…?

        • linnte says

          Apr 26, 2016 at 9:02 pm

          Boom!

        • Myxlplik says

          Apr 26, 2016 at 9:14 pm

          You miss the point, entirely.

        • Jay Boo says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 2:22 am

          Jerry

          You use the word “I” a lot.
          Muhammad was a narcissist too.

          It appears that there is a very strong likelihood that you have never had any true friends.

        • Thought_Weaver says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 3:14 am

          Mirren10 says

          April 26, 2016 at 8:32 pm

          You are pathetic. What was your next ‘art’ project ? An ‘artistic’ representation of Jews going to the gas chamber, all with the heads of donkey’s ? Idiot.
          ————————
          Well….Jews going to the gas chamber is a historical fact.

          Calm down….you gotta pray for us…:-)

        • Mirren10 says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 7:00 am

          ”Well….Jews going to the gas chamber is a historical fact.

          The crucifixion of Christ is well attested in the New Testament, as is the fact that crucifixion was the punishment of choice for the Romans.

          I simply find sneering, contemptuous portrayals of horrible, agonising death absolutely horrific, and indicative of a total lack of humanity in those who think they’re being clever.

          ”Calm down….you gotta pray for us…:-) ”

          You won’t get any prayers from me, since I’m not a Christian, merely my contemptuous distaste.

        • Ted Tyler says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 7:17 am

          Mirren10, We have all done a lot of stupid things when we were young, so if you are not a Christian, then you should try to be more forgiving. (That was for Champ)

        • Mirren10 says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 7:33 am

          ”Mirren10, We have all done a lot of stupid things when we were young, so if you are not a Christian, then you should try to be more forgiving.”

          Jerry doesn’t think his ‘artwork’ in the Sixth grade was stupid; he’s preening himself over it.

          And whilst I think his portrayal of Christ with the head of a donkey was cretinous, my original comment was directed at a) the pretentious arty farty nonsense of pretending this piece of talentless crap is somehow ‘deep’, and b) the mockery of a cruel and vicious death under the guise of ‘art’.

          Also, of course, the very important point that this piece of rubbish mocks *Christianity*, not islam. Reason being, this gutless wanker would never portray *mohammed* in such a manner, because he/she knows Christians will never physically attack him/ her, but mohammedans *will*.

          Neither you or Jerry chose to address *that*.

        • Ted Tyler says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 8:01 am

          Mirren, I did not address “that” because it is painfully obvious.

          The whole chain of these Jesus and Donkey “art” can be summarized by: “People on occasion do stupid things”. This “Art” thing is way less important than other issues that we are facing today. Let us move on.

        • Jerry says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 7:45 am

          Jay Boo says
          April 27, 2016 at 2:22 am
          Jerry

          You use the word “I” a lot.
          Muhammad was a narcissist too.

          I use “I” a lot because I know enough to speak for myself and not others. I don’t pretend to represent a group, I represent “me” and if others want to agree that’s fine. That comes from having enough humility to know I don’t know everything, so I shouldn’t dare to speak for others unless I’m sure.

          It appears that there is a very strong likelihood that you have never had any true friends.

          Now who’s “showing their a$$.”?

        • Mirren10 says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 8:13 am

          Ted Tyler says:

          ”This “Art” thing is way less important than other issues that we are facing today.”

          I disagree. It is important because there has been no public outcry against this ‘artist’ who has mocked the agonising death of Christ , but when Robert and Pamela had the draw mohammed contest in Garland, there were pundits all over the place decrying them for doing so, saying it was an unneccessary insult to mohammedans, ‘poking them in the eye’, and outright saying that they brought the violent mohammedan response **on themselves**. Even Trump.

          There is an outrageous double standard here, and one *I* consider to be extremely important, indicative as it is of politicians, the msm, and even those who purported to be counter-jihadists, like Michael Coren, falling over themselves to kowtow to islam and mohammedan ‘sensibilities’.

        • Ted Tyler says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 8:26 am

          Yes, but this is just one of 10,000 stories in which the theme is “you can criticize any religion – except Islam”. There is nothing really new here. We are like Cassandra – and soon we shall go mad.

        • Thought_Weaver says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 8:25 am

          Mirren10 says
          April 27, 2016 at 7:00 am

          ”Well….Jews going to the gas chamber is a historical fact.

          The crucifixion of Christ is well attested in the New Testament, as is the fact that crucifixion was the punishment of choice for the Romans.

          I simply find sneering, contemptuous portrayals of horrible, agonising death absolutely horrific, and indicative of a total lack of humanity in those who think they’re being clever.
          ____________________________________________________________

          Dear Miren10, I did not know that the new testament is a history book. That’s NEWS for me. You cannot defend your case by citing the New Testament dear.
          It would be like saying to you that you must respect and believe Elephant God Ganesha because it is written in the Ganesha Purana? You won’t right my dear?………..Exactly.
          ____________________________________________________________

          Mirren10 further says:

          ”Calm down….you gotta pray for us…:-) ”

          You won’t get any prayers from me, since I’m not a Christian, merely my contemptuous distaste.
          _____________________________________________

          Even the ‘MOOSLIMS’ pray, are you one? Nah! just kidding hehehe!
          Stay healthy my dear fellow human 🙂

        • Angemon says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 10:59 am

          Thought_Weaver posted:

          “Dear Miren10, I did not know that the new testament is a history book. That’s NEWS for me.”

          Have you ever read it?

          “You cannot defend your case by citing the New Testament dear.”

          Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t it the prevailing theory among scholars of antiquity that Jesus existed and was crucified? They may not believe that he was the Son of God, performed any miracles or came back from the dead, but the consensus (and you strike me as someone for whom consensus is a dogma) is that there was a historical Jesus who was crucified.

        • Jerry says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 8:31 am

          Mirren10 said (without any embarrassment. lol)

          Jerry doesn’t think his ‘artwork’ in the Sixth grade was stupid; he’s preening himself over it.–Mirren10

          I’m preening myself? lol.

          Def. Preen–devote effort to making oneself look attractive and then admire one’s appearance.

          lol, trust me, if I wanted to look good I wouldn’t do it with a donkey-headed Jesus in plaster. I’d just go look in the mirror. 😉

          the pretentious arty farty nonsense of pretending this piece of talentless crap is somehow ‘deep’–Mirren10

          Have you ever heard the expression, “beauty is in the eye of the beholder”? I was serious about my interpretation of that work of art. No kidding, that’s what I saw in that. Sorry if you are one of those people that lacks depth and sincerity of thought. Ya know, just because you’re a 5 or 6 doesn’t mean there ain’t 9’s and 10’s. Don’t be so sensitive, you’re sounding way to much like a jihadist for Jesus.

          And as far as it being “mockery” of a vicious death, there’s nothing mocking about it. Why is a dead and tortured Jesus on a dart board any more mocking than the same on a dirty wall? The real mockery of his human worth was when the Christian god framed him to death and caused a massacre of babies when he was born. Now that’s mockery that really matters. And even if this art truly was intended to be mockery the artist should be allowed to express his contempt in a free society. The Church never had a problem with expressing their contempt for humanity when it burned, tortured, condemned, and imprisoned, the innocent for their fable. So I don’t understand your outrage. If you want to be angry then consider the crimes of the Church itself and the Christian god too, that will help put things in perspective for you.

          Sleep well, did you?

        • Mirren10 says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 8:49 am

          ”Well….Jews going to the gas chamber is a historical fact.”

          Well, there are quite a few neo-nazis out there, and those who purport to be *historians*, who either deny that historical fact, or say Hitler knew nothing of it, and it was got up by Himmler, or say the Jews died from typhoid, or the numbers murdered have been grossly exaggerated, or any other malarkey they want to pull out of their arses.

          I am not a New Testament contextual scholar, but there are those who are, and who find the historical evidence for the crucifixion of Christ to be compelling. Naturally those who dismiss the NT because of its religious content, will more than likely dismiss that evidence also.

          By the way, do you suggest that crucifixion was *not* a common Roman punishment ?

          ” You cannot defend your case by citing the New Testament dear.”

          My case was not dependent on New Testament evidence, but was based on 1) that a mocking and sneering depiction of agonising death is not, to my mind, ‘art’, and 2) that the perpetrator of this crap is too gutless to portray mohammed in the same way, and 3) that the fact this rubbish has garnered no outrage from political pundits, the msm, politicians et al, whilst the draw mohammed exhibition *did*, is indicative of appalling double standards, and the eagerness of those I cited to roll over for sharia and the rule of islam. If that doesn’t worry you, it should.

          ”It would be like saying to you that you must respect and believe Elephant God Ganesha because it is written in the Ganesha Purana? You won’t right my dear?………..Exactly.”

          This is somewhat incoherent, perhaps you could clarify ?

          ”Even the ‘MOOSLIMS’ pray, are you one?”

          No.

        • Thought_Weaver says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 9:31 am

          Mirren10 says
          April 27, 2016 at 8:49 am

          Well, there are quite a few neo-nazis out there, and those who purport to be *historians*, who either deny that historical fact, or say Hitler knew nothing of it, and it was got up by Himmler, or say the Jews died from typhoid, or the numbers murdered have been grossly exaggerated, or any other malarkey they want to pull out of their arses.
          _______________________________________________

          Why the more you are being probed, the more you are sounding like a MOOSLIM?
          Holocaust Denial is it?
          —————————————————
          Mirren10 says

          I am not a New Testament contextual scholar, but there are those who are, and who find the historical evidence for the crucifixion of Christ to be compelling. Naturally those who dismiss the NT because of its religious content, will more than likely dismiss that evidence also.
          _______________________________________________

          There is more historical evidence in Ramayana and other books in Hinduism. Places like Kurushetra, Dakshinapur, Ayodhya, Lanka/Ceylon (now Sri Lanka) to name a few even exist today. Many archeological evidences are to be found regarding those texts. So, now do you want me to believe that in Ramayana, Lord Rama built a bridge of stones and boulders (By the way if you go to Rameswaram, in India you can even see the so called rocks being kept in water tanks and they do float 🙂 ) over the sea to reach Lannka and rescue his wife Sita? Or do you want me to believe that Hanuman took off with an entire mountain? Or that he had a tail that could stretch infinitely…..I mean common now, really?
          ——————————————————
          Mirren10 says

          By the way, do you suggest that crucifixion was *not* a common Roman punishment ?
          _________________________________________________

          Exactly my point dear, everything is so common in the New Testament….nothing new actually apart from the fact that a vengeful, hateful, angry, misogynistic, merciless, whimsical, profane, slave-master God form the Old Testament suddenly transforms into a docile being…..strange, what brought that change in Jesus’s father. What made him change his mind? I wonder, that he had to send his own son to rectify his mistakes….now, now….mistakes by an all perfect GOD? BLASPHEMY!!!!!!.
          I hope I was able to put my point across this time.

        • Mirren10 says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 9:54 am

          Jerry demonstrates his inability to argue logically, and in typical leftard fashion, selects one or two points to attempt to refute, but ignores the whole.

          ”Have you ever heard the expression, “beauty is in the eye of the beholder”? I was serious about my interpretation of that work of art. No kidding, that’s what I saw in that.”

          This is not really about the aesthetics, or otherwise, of this piece of nonsense.

          However, what Jerry seems to be saying is that art is, or should be, sacrosanct from moral judgements, which I disagree with. So, Jerry, if an artist decides to make a collage of all those who have been tortured and beheaded by IS, portraying them with Donald Duck heads, presumably you will make no judgement about it, but will gravely intone ”beauty is in the eye of the beholder” ? It wouldn’t surprise me.

          ”Sorry if you are one of those people that lacks depth and sincerity of thought.”

          Uh-huh. Anyone who doesn’t share Jerry’s ‘artistic’ opinions, ”lacks depth and sincerity of thought”. 🙂

          ”Ya know, just because you’re a 5 or 6 doesn’t mean there ain’t 9’s and 10’s.”

          I have no idea what this is supposed to refer to. But don’t bother to explain, I’m sure it will be as lacking on point as the rest of what you say.

          ”Don’t be so sensitive, you’re sounding way to much like a jihadist for Jesus.”

          More stupidity. I am not a Christian, and if I was, the tenets of Christianity forbid murder and suicide in the name of Christ. Which must be why we’re not seeing any Christians blowing themselves up in train stations et al, whilst shrieking, ”Christ is greater.”

          ”And as far as it being “mockery” of a vicious death, there’s nothing mocking about it. Why is a dead and tortured Jesus on a dart board any more mocking than the same on a dirty wall? ”

          Because 1) a crucifix on a wall is there for reverential and devotional purposes, to remind Christian’s of Christ’s sacrifice, not to mock the man’s agony, and 2) a dartboard is a pub game, the object of which is to gain the highest score. To place the wracked and agonised body of Christ on this, transfixing the wounds with darts, is a mockery. Of a particularly nasty kind. You may choose to disagree with this interpretation, and you are certainly free to do so.

          ”The real mockery of his human worth was when the Christian god framed him to death and caused a massacre of babies when he was born.”

          As has already been pointed out, Christian theology holds Christ deliberately offered Himself as a sacrifice to redeem the sins of man. Whether one agrees with this or not, there is certainly no element of being ‘framed’. As for the massacre of the male children, that was the action of Herod, not God. Christians believe human beings have free will, and choices.

          ”And even if this art truly was intended to be mockery the artist should be allowed to express his contempt in a free society.”

          Of course he/she should. Where have I suggested otherwise ? Your assumption that, because I find this object offensive, cruel and mocking, I therefore think it should be suppressed is illogical, and certainly not something I ever said.

          ”So I don’t understand your outrage.”

          I’m sure you don’t. However, to clarify, my disgust for this piece is not only, or even mostly, based on it’s mockery of pain and sacrifice, but on the fact that not one single politician, pundit, or member of the msm has condemned it, whereas the draw mohammed contest in Garland was almost universally condemned as gratuitous offence, poking muslims in the eye, etc etc, with the concomitant assumption that Robert and Pamela, and the contributors and attendees, *deserved* to be targeted.

          I notice you haven’t once mentioned this, which I have pointed out several times. Why doesn’t this outrageous double standard outrage *you* ?

          ”If you want to be angry then consider the crimes of the Church itself … ”

          As has been pointed out to you innumerable times, the crimes of the Church were crimes that ignored the *tenets* of Christianity. I don’t think any Christian here, or anywhere else, would disagree with that.

          ”and the Christian god too…”

          What ‘crimes’ do you consider the Christian God to have committed ? And don’t cite the Old Testament. Concentrate on the actions of Christ in the New Testament.

          ” … that will help put things in perspective for you.”

          You are the one who needs some perspective, Jerry. Address what I said about the actions of the mohammedans at Garland, and contrast with the *non* actions of Christians, over this piece of crap, and the Piss Christ, and the dung Madonna as well. Also address the outrageous double standards evinced by the media.

          ”Sleep well, did you?”

          Yes, thanks.

        • Thought_Weaver says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 10:14 am

          Mirren10 says to Jerry (and I m not answering for Jerry)

          More stupidity. I am not a Christian, and if I was, the tenets of Christianity forbid murder and suicide in the name of Christ. Which must be why we’re not seeing any Christians blowing themselves up in train stations et al, whilst shrieking, ”Christ is greater.”
          _______________________________
          Neither do Hindus, Zoroastrians, Buddhists, Jains, Bahais in the name of their god blow themselves up……what’s new?

          Q: Why Jesus?
          A: It’s in the Bible

          Q: Why Bible?
          A: Because Jesus said so.

          Wow! so convenient and so convincing.

        • Jay Boo says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 10:22 am

          @Thought_Weaver

          Your argument is a classic straw-man fallacy.

          Was that done on purpose, or are you really that pig headed?

        • Jerry says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 10:29 am

          (Do you all think she’s in love with me too? lol)

          You have far too much in that last post of yours for me to care about, I’m not here to debate Christianity. I told you that last time you attacked me like a hungry wolverine. But I will touch on this one tidbit:

          …a crucifix on a wall is there for reverential and devotional purposes…

          But if that artist is a fan of darts and enjoys that game much then putting Jesus on a dart board is “reverential” too. Why is it that the whole world must conform to your idea of what it means to be reverential? And what if he/she was a retarded artist, should they be denied the right to express that retarded view? Who the hell are you to decide what is proper respect in art and what isn’t? You can have all the personal feelings you want, but they don’t rule over the feelings of others. I urinated on the cross once as an expression of my contempt for Christianity’s crimes and stupidity. I video taped it and I consider that “art.” It’s a form of expression, controversial yes, insensitive probably, but no less valid an expression than the most sacred art ever made. Peeing on a cross conveys perfectly the message I want to give about that faith, nothing else could have captured my sentiment in quite the same way as did that. And if you deny me that right then you destroy the underlying principle that makes free speech possible.

          Now excuse me, I have to go to the bathroom. 😉

        • Angemon says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 11:03 am

          Careful not to flush yourself…

        • Thought_Weaver says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 11:09 am

          You again Jay Boo?? 🙂
          —————————————-
          Jay Boo said earlier in this post

          April 27, 2016 at 2:15 am

          Jerry
          You are really showing your ass.
          If you were honest and not so full of yourself you would debate the points listed instead digging into your bag of name-calling clichés.
          _______________________________________________
          And now Jay Boo says to me:

          Jay Boo says
          April 27, 2016 at 10:22 am

          @Thought_Weaver
          Your argument is a classic straw-man fallacy.
          Was that done on purpose, or are you really that pig headed?
          _______________________________________________

          You guys are the epitome of hypocrisy. Let me remind you, this site is not a christian site. This site is about upholding freedom of speech and expression that the muslims are trying so desperately to smother. Do not be like them, please. We talk so much about muslim supremacism, which is a fact, but I also see truckloads of christian supremacy too. Is it wrong on my part to have made that observation? Definitely a no. You guys just keep on proving my point. Keep it up fellas.

          Fellow commentators may kindly go through the comments section of this particular post.

          https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/04/islamic-state-stones-two-people-to-death-on-charges-of-adultery#comments

          You can see how Jayboo, Champ and Bunyip ganged up on me calling me names and slandering me instead of countering me with sound arguments.

          Have you come prepared this time Jay Boo? Call your other helpers too, champ, bunyip and maybe many other hate filled, hypocritical, supremacist, fairy tale believers like yourself. You do not even have the decency to address someone properly. Is that a result of christian upbringing Jay Boo? I pity you guys.

        • Jerry says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 11:12 am

          Angemon says
          April 27, 2016 at 11:03 am

          Careful not to flush yourself…
          —————

          lol, not bad. But seriously I would have thought you more than anyone would see the merits of my argument. Maybe I’m not the one standing in the toilet?

        • Angemon says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 10:38 am

          Indeed, “standing” may not be the best word to describe it. Anyway, we were due for the visit of the seasonal “Anti-Christian” brigade. And what a coincidence, they just happened to pop out on a topic about kowtowing to islamic supremacy. Well, good thing we have you nice and charming folks like them to remind us that there’s also “Christian supremacy”, which, judging by the way they go around addressing it (childish tantrums towards Christians on the internet) must be just as bad as islamic supremacy that made thousands of victims in the US since 2000. If nice folks like them didn’t exist, Christians and Atheists just might get along to face a common foe!

        • Jerry says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 11:25 am

          Thought_Weaver says
          April 27, 2016 at 11:09 am

          You guys are the epitome of hypocrisy. Let me remind you, this site is not a christian site. This site is about upholding freedom of speech and expression that the muslims are trying so desperately to smother.
          ——————–
          Honestly Weaver, I don’t think half these people in here “get it.” They don’t really care about the important issues, and frankly, some of them seem as kooky and dangerous as are the muslims that want to kill us. You’re right, it’s not a Christian site. But we got Christians in here that are so sensitive about their faith they interpret even the tiniest reference as an egregious offense. So they’ll hijack a thread and turn it into a defense of Christianity in a heart beat. They are moral enough not to kill, but they kill by character assassination. I gotta remember not to step on the over-sized toes of these religious fanatics. It only hurts JW with needless and irrelevant discussion.

        • Thought_Weaver says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 11:32 am

          @ Jerry

          True that.

        • Mirren10 says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 11:42 am

          Thought_Weaver says:

          ”Why the more you are being probed, the more you are sounding like a MOOSLIM?
          Holocaust Denial is it?”

          No. I should have thought it was clear from my tone and choice of words, that I was *mocking* Holocaust deniers, not endorsing them. However, to clarify, the point I was making is that there are those who will deny any amount of evidence if it doesn’t suit their agenda, or what they want to believe.

          In any case, you persist in assuming I am a Christian, or a theist. I am neither, I am an agnostic. So for me, the issue is not ultimately about actual evidence for the crucifixion of Christ, but as I have repeatedly pointed out, disgust at the mockery of agony, and outrage at the cowardice, not only of this particular artist, but politicians and the msm.

          ”I hope I was able to put my point across this time.”

          Your point seems to be debunking historical evidence for religious events, whether Christian or Hindu. As I have said, ad nauseam, that is not what I’m arguing here.

        • Mirren10 says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 1:45 pm

          Jerry says:

          ”You have far too much in that last post of yours for me to care about, I’m not here to debate Christianity.”

          It doesn’t seem you are here to debate much of anything, since you carefully ignore my points, as is your MO.

          ” … And what if he/she was a retarded artist, should they be denied the right to express that retarded view?”

          As I have already pointed out, I have nowhere expressed the opinion that anyone should be denied the right to express their views, whatever my opinion of those views might be. This is the all too typical reaction of those who consider *criticism* of their views as an attempt to shut them down. Criticism of a view, or a polemic, or a piece of ‘art’, is just that. It is not a denial of the right of expression.

          ”Who the hell are you to decide what is proper respect in art and what isn’t?”

          Someone who is entitled to their opinion, as are you. In my case, my opinion is based on basic decency, yours, in my opinion, is not. But I am not stating you have no right to express that opinion, merely that I disagree with it, and find it childishly obscene.

          ” I urinated on the cross once as an expression of my contempt for Christianity’s crimes and stupidity. I video taped it and I consider that “art.”

          I don’t consider that ‘art’, merely childish obscenity.

          ”And if you deny me that right then you destroy the underlying principle that makes free speech possible.”

          I haven’t denied you anything, the fact you think criticism of your opinions, or your silly little obscenities, denies you the right to act like a fool, merely illustrates the incoherence of your thought processes.

        • Thought_Weaver says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 2:22 pm

          Mirren10 says

          In any case, you persist in assuming I am a Christian, or a theist. I am neither, I am an agnostic.
          ________________________________
          FYKI I did not assume anything about you. You defended Jesus by citing the New Testament and I argued against it, plain and simple. You being a theist, athiest, agnostinc or whatever is none of my concern. As long as you are just and tolerant you will have my respect.
          ————————
          Mirren10 said

          So for me, the issue is not ultimately about actual evidence for the crucifixion of Christ, but as I have repeatedly pointed out, disgust at the mockery of agony, and outrage at the cowardice, not only of this particular artist, but politicians and the msm.
          __________________________
          If there is no actual evidence supporting crucification of Jesus then why get so offended at its display and equating that with jews and gas chambers which is a historically proven fact?

          Damn right it is not an issue for you ‘coz lack of evidence of Jesus’s crucification would make your defence of christianity fall flat on its face.

          ————————–
          Mirren10 said

          Your point seems to be debunking historical evidence for religious events, whether Christian or Hindu. As I have said, ad nauseam, that is not what I’m arguing here.
          __________________________________
          There are some historical facts in all religious texts including the NT but that does not mean one has to believe in all the other hodgy podgy in it and claim it to be divine and all knowing. Yes I will speak against any so called religion which tries to establish an hegemony over one and all and claims to be the ultimate truth without solid proofs. And more so when there are *agnostic* defenders of christianity who resort to profanity and chatacter assasinations of others to prove their point.

        • Fessitude says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 3:37 pm

          I’ve been nosing around in Jihad Watch comments (under many different monikers) for some 13 years now, and it seems to me that there are more atheists popping up nowadays than before. They also seem to percolate up to the surface more when there are issues surrounding religious freedom and Islam being reported (the recent article on the video testimony of the ex-Muslim who became an atheist, for example).

          While it’s always heartening to see more people hop aboard the Counter-Jihad flagship, one wonders what the role of atheists will be in the coming years in this most exigent and crucial war of ideas phase of the world war we are in… One thing seems to be sure about the vast majority of them: we cannot count on them to articulate robustly and intelligently the critical principle that Equivalence (e.g., “all religions suck” or “all Abrahamic religions are dangerous and stupid” or… fill in the blank with equally preposterous point-missing nonsense) is disastrously wrong, inaccurate and misguided. Instead, we will have to spend time and energy trying to manage these highly educated, intelligent and rational children who can’t see that Islam is a motherfucking billion times worse than Islam – not just “as bad” or “a wee squidge worse” or “somewhat worse” or “well, okay, if you really insist [roll eyes], sorta kinda a lot worse – okay, are ya satisfied now, you Fundies?”

        • Fessitude says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 3:59 pm

          Speaking of Holocaust denial, the original story on this includes this detail about another work of “art” which apparently was not taken down:

          Other pieces included …a milk carton featuring Anne Frank titled “Cute Kids Make Good Advertising,”

          http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/rutgers-removes-controversial-art-exhibit-jesus-dartboard-article-1.2615106

        • Champ says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 4:05 pm

          “Ted” wrote:

          Mirren10, We have all done a lot of stupid things when we were young, so if you are not a Christian, then you should try to be more forgiving. (That was for Champ)

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Forgiving for what? Do tell!

          Ok, I’ll forgive you for being *very* immature “Ted”; since only an extremely immature person would write something about me–and in parentheses, no less–what, so that no one would notice? Wow you’re a coward, and notice that I’m stating this directly TO you. Not behind your back.

          And to suggest that I’m NOT a forgiving person only demonstrates your inner jerk–again.

          And “Ted” doesn’t actually have anything in particular, in mind, that requires my *forgiveness*. He only mentions this to take another swipe at me and mock me–again. Since Christians are suppose to be forgiving, right?

          “Ted’s” slight to me doesn’t even make sense …

          I repeat: forgive what?

          If you want forgiveness, then pray to Jesus Christ!

          🙂

        • Ted Tyler says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 4:24 pm

          Thanks Champ. I knew that I could get an interesting and intense response from you with only slight provocation. However, I do want to apologize for some of the typos in my last few posts. I should slow down a bit to be sure that the spelling is OK.

        • Thought_Weaver says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 4:31 pm

          Angemon says

          April 27, 2016 at 10:59 am

          Thought_Weaver posted:

          “Dear Miren10, I did not know that the new testament is a history book. That’s NEWS for me.”

          Have you ever read it?
          ____________________________
          Does it even matter? Has it made you smarter then you were before? And just beacuse u had asked. Yes, I have read both the OT and NT. I studied in a christian missionary school and therein they spoon fed us christianity. We even had an exam on a subject titled “Moral Science” in 6th standard if I remember correctly. It was all about Jesus’s teachings and sayings. I sang hymns, conducted prayers, sang chorus. They even gave us a small book of hymns and songs to learn by heart and perform at the prayer grounds. Songs like “At the cross, at the cross…all the day” or something like that. I am now 33 so don’t quite remember. Anyways, I actually started to ponder about the outrageous claims of divinity and ultimate truth only during my engineering days. That is when I came to know that all these claims of divinity are nothing but baseless. No theist has so far been able to come up with even a shred of substantial evidence supporting their extraordinary claims. As i have said before, it is the same rhetoric:

          Q. Why Jesus?
          A. Because Bible says so.

          Q. Why Bible?
          A. Because Jesus says so.

          And since you seem to indeed have read the bible and decided which parables are metphorical and which ones are literal. And since you have verified the credibility and authenticity of the observations of Mark, Matthew, Luke, John etc. personally, you can be rest assured of a berth in heaven my fellow human. And thank you for all the love and kind words you peace loving, non crusader, non KKK christians shower us infidels with.

        • Angemon says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 10:38 am

          Thought_Weaver (is that you stardusty?) posted:

          “Does it even matter? ”

          It does, for reasons that should be obvious. The rest of your post is a bloated nonsense that avoids the rest of my post (I asked you if whether or not the prevailing theory among scholars of antiquity was that Jesus existed and was crucified) as if it were the plague (or, as we say in my country, you ran from it as the devil from the cross 😀 ). And you complain about others not countering you with solid arguments. Hypocrisy much? Tsk tsk…

        • Champ says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 4:55 pm

          “Ted” wrote:

          Thanks Champ. I knew that I could get an interesting and intense response from you with only slight provocation. However, I do want to apologize for some of the typos in my last few posts. I should slow down a bit to be sure that the spelling is OK.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          No, thank you, for proving–once again–that you truly are an unmitigated ass. Now everyone can see it for themselves.

          Projection Alert …

          Ironically, you’re the one who’s easily upset, and you made waaay too much of things I’ve written to you. This is obvious, since you felt the need to take another swipe at me. Makes me laugh that you don’t recognize something so painfully obvious in yourself! You’re a gifted liar, even to yourself.

          Remember, you’re the one that wrote me *first*, so please take some ownership of that. And if you’re going to write me, then I’m going to respond. And if you don’t agree with response, then fine. But take it like a man, next time. If you can. If you dare.

        • Thought_Weaver says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 5:17 pm

          @*old man* Fessitude.
          Who told you that atheists think “all religions suck”? What we know for sure is that all religions are not the same and that they have different implications. Some are totally insane but harmless, some have very clear messages but dangerous directives. Some are very confusing and make people do and say ridiculous and illogical things.

          And for your kind information *old man* I do know what perils islam holds. Do not bother to manage us rather manage your co-religionist child raping priests, homophobic believers, wishers of end of times etc. That would do humanity a great service. Go for it….start rightaway.

        • gravenimage says

          May 1, 2016 at 10:58 pm

          Excellent comments, Mirren.

    • gravenimage says

      Apr 30, 2016 at 11:58 pm

      I have a degree in art history. I have to say this is as good a load of bs as most critics of modern art manage to come up with. I suppose you should feel proud…

  16. Georg says

    Apr 26, 2016 at 6:52 pm

    Although I’m agnostic i would never, ever portray Jesus badly as he was an extraordinary source or morality and kindness. How rotten that the barbarity of Islam is rewarded and the peacefulness of Christianity used to spite it. And how fitting jihadists are running rampant crucifying people in the name of Allah and all the politicians press, police and professors (PPPPs) of the West can do is allow garbage like this to go on without critical comment; and they’re probably sniggering to boot. What COWARDICE! As Douglas Murray once said, paraphrasing, “What upsets me about [neo]liberals is they spend their lives attacking empty hornets’ nests, yet when they find one that’s real they run the other way.”

    It makes me want to spit.

    Worship a Jew-hating, bigoted, ethnic supremacist, sex-fiend, mass-murderer, gangster and all is groovy so long as you’re likely brown. What a wonder Christendom turned out as it did and Dar-al-Islam in its way.

    There will be consequences.

    • Mark Swan says

      Apr 27, 2016 at 9:06 pm

      Reply To: Thought_Weaver says April 27, 2016 at 2:22 pm

      “lack of evidence of Jesus’s crucification would make your defence of christianity fall flat on its face”

      Mark Swan says
      March 16, 2016 at 6:11 pm

      Titus Flavius Josephus Was Most Definitely A True Roman…
      What Your Ancestry Was Did Not Mean You Were Not Roman.
      The Roman Empire Was Very Diverse…Citizens Were Citizens.

      He was a first-century Romano-Jewish scholar, historian and hagiographer, who was born in Jerusalem—then part of Roman Judea—to a father of priestly descent and a mother who claimed royal ancestry.

      He initially fought against the Romans during the First Jewish–Roman War as head of Jewish forces in Galilee, until surrendering in 67 CE to Roman forces led by Vespasian
      After Vespasian became Emperor in 69 CE, he granted Josephus his freedom, at which time Josephus assumed the emperor’s family name of Flavius.

      Flavius Josephus fully became a Roman and was granted Roman citizenship.

      He Is One Of The Worlds Most Respected And Authoritative Historians.

      Josephus Accounts are not a Christian interpolation in the view of scholars such as Eddy, Boyd, Geza Vermes and Kostenberger. Geza Vermes states that the sober history of Josephus appears all the more believable with Scrutiny.

      No Scholar Would do anything more than Imply They Doubt Anything He Wrote was accurate…None could do more than say what they considered maybe inaccurate was more than theoretical on their part.

      Scholars…whether Roman…Greek…Hebrew…Arabic…Christian…or any other…all respect His First Century accounts.

      There are more sources documenting Christ’s existence…whether We believe in His Divinity or not.

      Roman historian Tacitus referred to ‘Christus’ and his execution by Pontius Pilate in his Annals (written ca. AD 116), book 15, chapter 44.The very negative tone of Tacitus’ comments on Christians make the passage extremely unlikely to have been forged by a Christian scribe. The Tacitus reference is now widely accepted as an independent confirmation of Christ’s crucifixion.

      Jesus’ crucifixion is mentioned in the Babylonian Talmud.

      Pliny was the Roman governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor.

      Lucian of Samosata was a second century Greek.

      The Bible Is The Most Historically Preserved Book There Is…All The Testimony Over Such a Long Period…All Agreeing All Backed up By Archeology…History…Scholarly Scrutiny…All The Prophecy That Has Proven To Accurately Come To Pass And In Detail.

      Although there is overwhelming evidence that the Bible is an accurate and trustworthy historical document, some people are still reluctant to believe what it says unless there is also some independent, non-biblical testimony that corroborates its statements…And There Are…But They Do Ignore Them Anyway.

      Those That Come Right Out And Call You Wrong For Accepting The Facts…Even Though It Is Your Choice…What Does That Tell You.

      Can I Or Anyone Convince Them To Just Live And Let Live…?

      Many who believe in God say that you should “just have faith” and not try to examine the evidence. What does the Bible say? Contrary to common assumptions, the Bible does not advocate “blind faith.” The God of the Bible challenges human beings to test and prove what is true and real. He tells us to: “Test all things; hold fast what is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21).

      Yes Christ Really Did Live On This Earth…and was crucified.

      Josephus Was Not Interested In A Jewish Heretic who was put to death;
      But He Did Know of Him And That He Did Exist; and recorded it.

      So Very Many People knew of Jesus throughout Judah…He Spent
      Three Years Traveling Publicly Amongst Them During His Ministry.
      Thousands of people absolutely confirm Jesus’ existence.

      Josephus was a Historian He was not interested in hearsay
      He recorded only what He deemed factual accounts and from
      many diverse sources…Including His Account of Jesus.

      The Writings Of Matthew…Mark…And Luke all respected writers of their time…
      Paul’s…James’…Peter’s…Jude’s…conformation…not to mention
      So many Christian Followers…who gave witness accounts.

      All The Multitude Above Say Jesus Existed…Was Crucified…and His body was gone
      three days and nights after He died…do You think the jews and romans did not look for it.

      • Thought_Weaver says

        Apr 28, 2016 at 5:43 am

        Let me put this into perspective.

        Here are a few examples.

        1. “The Nails of the Cross” a History Channel documentary claiming nails of Jesus’ crucifixion were found which later proved to be a publicity stunt.

        2. A remark by a sixteenth-century theologian John Calvin and I quote “There is no abbey so poor as not to have a specimen. In some places, there are large fragments, as at the Holy Chapel in Paris, at Poitiers, and at Rome, where a good-sized crucifix is said to have been made of it. In brief, if all the pieces that could be found were collected together, they would make a big shipload. Yet the Gospel testifies that a single man was able to carry it.”

        3. “The Shroud of Turin” which was claimed to be the burial cloth of Jesus has been worshipped by millions of christians….(talk about idol worshipping polytheists, the hypocrisy is so blatant)……has been proven to be a fake.

        4. In a cave in Jordan 70 metal books with codes written cast in lead. The BBC delightedly stated and I quote “Never has there been a discovery of relics on this scale from the early Christian movement, in its homeland and so early in its history.” Christians all over the world took these books as evidence of Jesus’s existence primarily because one particular page purportedly displayed a picture of Christ and a fragment of a code stating “I shall walk uprightly”. But as luck would have it Christians could not rejoice for long as these too were proven to be fake and probably forged. Peter Thonemann an Oxford University archaeologist said and I quote “The image they are saying is Christ is the sun god Helios from a coin that came from the island of Rhodes. There are also some nonsense inscriptions in Hebrew and Greek”
        Phewww!!!

        Now, Mark Swan, I can go on and on with the number of times you believers have claimed to find the truth in watermelons, clouds, biscuits, pumpkins and what not and have been proven wrong time and again. And till date you guys try and fool yourselves and others by finding justification for your baseless beliefs through whatever means you guys can come up with, no matter how ridiculous they might sound. When did all the grey matter turn white?
        This is the problem with religious people. They believe first and then spend the rest of their lives trying to find justifications for their beliefs. Well please do but don’t proselytize others. Ask your ministries and missionaries to stop feeding people half baked truths. Be a man and learn to seek the truth. Only saying ——-Many who believe in God say that you should “just have faith” and not try to examine the evidence. What does the Bible say? Contrary to common assumptions, the Bible does not advocate “blind faith.” The God of the Bible challenges human beings to test and prove what is true and real. He tells us to: “Test all things; hold fast what is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21)—-does not help Mark. At least be true to yourself, that’s the least you could do.

        • rev g says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 6:10 am

          I am missing your perspective. Nowhere in the bible can I find reference to the above items as proof of anything.
          I personally am unaware of anyone who has based their faith on the items above. In fairness though, your view on the shroud is errant. The dating was found to be compromised by using a portion of the shroud which contained repair work, dating from the mid 16th century. Calling its authenticity questionable is one thing, but hardly unproven.
          Do you call Rolex watches’ existence into question because of the existence of fakes? Nobody would buy a fake Rolex if they didn’t believe real ones existed.

        • Mark Swan says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 6:45 am

          Thought_Weaver, Thank You for your perspective.

        • Thought_Weaver says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 6:52 am

          rev g says:

          Do you call Rolex watches’ existence into question because of the existence of fakes? Nobody would buy a fake Rolex if they didn’t believe real ones existed.
          _____________________________
          Exactly my point fellow human.

          That people buy duplicates knowing aka believing that the real one exists is the problem. Can’t you see? Perspective huh?

        • Angemon says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 10:45 am

          Huh, Rolex does exist.

        • Rev g says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 11:21 am

          You make no sense. The existence of fakes does not negate the existence of the true object.
          Actually, fakes typically are created only because the real objects are valuable.
          You have no perspective.

      • Thought_Weaver says

        Apr 28, 2016 at 6:49 am

        rev g says

        I am missing your perspective. Nowhere in the bible can I find reference to the above items as proof of anything.
        _________________________

        Why the heck should I even refer to the bible?
        Is that all you can come up with?
        Didn’t I already say not to try this circular argument? It is absurd. Refer below.

        Q. Why Jesus?
        A. Because Bible says so.

        Q. Why Bible?
        A. Because Jesus says so.
        _____________________________________
        rev g also says

        I personally am unaware of anyone who has based their faith on the items above. In fairness though, your view on the shroud is errant. The dating was found to be compromised by using a portion of the shroud which contained repair work, dating from the mid 16th century. Calling its authenticity questionable is one thing, but hardly unproven.
        _____________________________
        Even the Catholic Church does not officially endorse the Turin Shroud, though many believers like you and Pope Benedict have indicated that they personally believe in its holiness. So I got to believe you and not the official statement of the Church?
        I personally have no problems with individual beliefs. Go believe in Spaghetti Monsters, who cares. But do not thrust your belief on others. And do not get worked up when one questions your beliefs. If you have the right to believe, I have the right to ask questions. If you cannot come up with valid answers, that has got nothing to do with me, May be your belief is a bit shaky. So, think about it.

        And lastly, lets not talk about perspectives now rev g okay? That is an oxymoron when it comes to people who just believe.

        • Mark Swan says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 9:18 am

          We are all free agents…
          We must try to respect that the other person We are addressing is a rational thinking Human Being…We should never assume someone just believes without reason.

          I have spent the past 40 years and hold four degrees in Science…nothing in true science contradicts the existence of a Creator, Life Giver, Law Giver, Designer…in fact it points clearly at a very knowledgeable Scientific Intelligence. I believe in God…I follow logic and it is logical to Me.

          The Hubble telescope continues to reveal previously unknown galaxies. Our awesome universe simply astounds us.

          Did the universe have a beginning? What do scientists say? Famous astrophysicist Stephen Hawking, in a lecture titled “The Beginning of Time,” stated the view of most astronomers today: “The universe has not existed forever. Rather, the universe, and time itself, had a beginning in the Big Bang, about 15 billion years ago.” As Dr. Jeffrey Fall wrote: “Science now confirms that there has been no past eternity of matter!… Amazingly, science is finally catching up in understanding with the Bible concerning the origin of the universe” Science agrees with the Bible that the universe has not always existed. But how, then, did the universe arise? Did it come from nothing? If so, how? Can science give us an answer? Sir John Maddox, author of What Remains To Be Discovered, wrote a Time magazine article titled “A Theory of Everything.” He observed: “Only 70 years ago, the universe was found to be expanding, but now there is a model of how it began: the Big Bang. At the beginning, it is said, there was literally nothing (‘the void,’ Genesis), not even space. Then there came into being a tiny speck of superheated space that contained enough energy to create all the stars and galaxies that fill the sky—with enough left over to drive the expansion of the universe ever since” (March 29, 1999, p. 206). Maddox continues, “There are also serious philosophical problems created by the Big Bang, which can be described but not explained. Worse, nobody has been able to reconcile quantum physics with the other great triumph of 20th century physics: Einstein’s theory of gravitation. Until that is done, the true nature of our universe will remain beyond our ken” Maddox’s candor is admirable. He recognizes that scientific truth is valuable, but limited. Science can describe the “how” of nature to a certain extent. But it cannot answer the deeper philosophical questions, such as “why the universe?” and “what is the purpose of human beings?” The Bible does answer those questions. Science can demonstrate that the universe began, but by itself it cannot reveal what—or Who—caused that beginning. Here, the Bible agrees with science, but adds a vital dimension to our understanding of the created universe: “By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible” (Hebrews 11:3).

          Scientists have tried in vain to create life from non-life, or even from “soups” of laboratory chemicals. They have utterly failed! The law of biogenesis states that life can only come from life. Astrophysicist Hugh Ross comments on these failed attempts: “Even under highly favorable conditions of a laboratory, these soups have failed to produce anything remotely resembling life. One problem is that they produce only a random distribution of left- and right-handed pre-biotic molecules…Life chemistry demands that all the molecules be either right- or left-handed. With all our learning and technology we cannot even come close to bringing life together in the lab” (The Creator and the Cosmos, Ross, 1993, p. 148). Even though science has never—not even once—created life from non-life, some scientists are so determined to reject the idea of a Creator God that they put aside their own scientific objectivity and stake their belief on what science has shown to be impossible. The scientific method requires observation, experimentation and human reasoning. No physical experiment can “prove” God in a scientific sense. Science can only produce experimental results that are either consistent or inconsistent with the hypothesis of a Creator God. Yet what happens when scientists encounter facts that are consistent with a Creator? Many will dogmatically declare that there cannot be a God, ironically making a “religion” out of their unscientific atheism! Notice this quote by Nobel Prize-winning scientist George Wald: “The reasonable view was to believe in spontaneous generation; the only alternative, to believe in a single, primary act of supernatural creation. There is no third position. One has only to contemplate the magnitude of this task to concede that the spontaneous generation of a living organism is impossible. Yet here we are as a result, I believe, of spontaneous generation” (“The Origin of Life,” Scientific American, August 1954, p. 46). Amazing! A Nobel Prize-winning scientist calls it “impossible” yet believes it to be true! We must not be deceived by scientific theorizing that has no basis in reality. Wald’s phrase “spontaneous generation” may sound impressive, but however erudite such a phrase may sound, it is not scientific truth, and does not agree with true science and the real world! As true science recognizes, life can only come from life. The Bible explains that life originally came from the Life-Giver:

          Science has discovered that our physical universe appeared from nothing. But how did this happen? Science cannot explain the origin of the universe, but there must be an answer. Contrary to what some believe, the Bible’s simple answer is consistent with true science: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” (Genesis 1:1). Notice that the Bible does not tell us when this original creation occurred, only that there was a beginning of time, and a beginning of the universe. Science and the Bible agree that the universe began, and that it immediately operated according to predictable natural laws. When the universe came into existence, all the laws of physics and chemistry were intact; they did not “evolve.” Patrick Glynn, in his book God: The Evidence, writes that everything had to be “‘just right’ from the very start—everything from the values of fundamental forces like electromagnetism and gravity, to the relative masses of the various subatomic particles, to things like the number of neutrino types at time 1 second, which the universe has to ‘know’ already at 10-43 second. The slightest tinkering with a single one of scores of basic values and relationships in nature would have resulted in a universe very different from the one we inhabit—say, one with no stars like our sun, or no stars, period. Far from being accidental, life appeared to be the goal toward which the entire universe from the very first moment of its existence had been orchestrated, fine-tuned” (pp. 7–8). Science has found no reason for the many laws of physics and chemistry, and for the many precise values and relationships, to have come into existence exactly as they are. From a mathematical point of view, the odds against our universe having just the right laws to sustain life are astronomical. Remember, these laws were in existence at the first moment of creation. Scientists recognize that they had to be. As Hawking acknowledged in The Nature of Space and Time: “The only way to have scientific theory is if the laws of physics hold everywhere, including at the beginning of the universe” (p. 40). Is it reasonable, then, to assume that these laws came about from nothing—from random chance? Absolutely not! The existence of such marvelous and predictable laws in nature points to a master intelligence and Lawgiver. Add to that evidence the existence of unseen spiritual laws, and you double the evidence of a great Lawgiver. What is the origin of these natural laws that permeate our universe? As your Bible reveals: “There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy” (James 4:12). Yes, the Creator God is the Lawgiver, both of natural law and spiritual law. “The Lord is our Lawgiver” (Isaiah 33:22). Have some scientists recognized the significant evidence of intelligence behind the natural laws of our universe? Yes! Albert Einstein, the great physicist and Nobel Prize winner, saw awesome intelligence revealed in the existence of natural law. He wrote that the scientist’s “religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection” (Einstein: A Centenary Volume, ed. A. P. French, Harvard University Press, 1979, p. 305). Einstein was amazed at the intelligence he saw in natural law. He called human intelligence, compared to that superior intelligence revealed in natural law, “an utterly insignificant reflection.” That far superior intelligence behind the laws of the universe is the God who created the universe—the great Lawgiver!

          Not only do we find predictable physical laws throughout the universe, we find tremendous evidence of intelligent design. The human body, for example, shows insurmountable evidence of design. Consider the human eye. Even Darwin admitted that complex organs such as the eye would be difficult to explain in terms of the gradual stepwise process outlined by his theory…But Darwin did not realize the complexity of vision’s molecular biology…which science would later discover…If we find design in the universe…we naturally expect a designer…Significantly…then…we may ask…was the universe designed for a purpose…As Patrick Glynn notes in his book, God: The Evidence: “The most basic explanation for the universe is that it seems to be a process orchestrated to achieve the end or goal of creating human beings” (Glynn, p. 32). Glynn states further: “From the scientist’s viewpoint, the fact that the universe looks as though it had a definite beginning might be upsetting enough. But what appears to drive cosmologists nearly to distraction is the anthropic principle”—that the earth and the universe were created for mankind (ibid., p. 42). What is the alternative? Certainly one may ignore evidence of design behind the laws that govern the universe, and behind the universe itself. But in the face of so much evidence, it takes greater “faith” to believe in a godless universe than to follow the evidence to its logical conclusion: the existence of a Creator God who set in place His laws for a purpose. Why would people exercise so much “faith” to ignore the evidence right in front of their eyes? Even some atheists and agnostics admit that by choosing to remain ignorant, they can continue living their lives without God, denying the consequences. Aldous Huxley, the famous English author, expressed this perspective well: “Most ignorance is vincible ignorance. We don’t know because we don’t want to know. It is our will that decides how and upon what subjects we shall use our intelligence. Those who detect no meaning in the world generally do so because, for one reason or another, it suits their books that the world should be meaningless” (Ends and Means, p. 312). What an admission! Huxley’s statement sounds very much like what the Apostle Paul wrote: “For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened” (Romans 1:20–21). Do not be like these people! Examine the universe, creation and the purpose of human life, and you will find that design demands a designer!

        • Thought_Weaver says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 11:41 am

          Whoaaaa!…..brakes Mark… 🙂

          As far as Biogenesis is concerned, there was an opposing theory too of spontaneous life, Abiogenesis. And when we consider the vast expanse of the earth’s surface with numerous chemical compounds, atmospheric gases, natural phenomenon like lightning, there is a very high probability that at least once there could have been a perfect moment where the integration of mutiple natural entities gave rise to the first ever life form. Also all living things are composed of enitities that are found in non-living entities too. Agreed such conditions may not exist today but who knows? Not long back was it thought that life could not possibly sustain without sun light and oxygen. This theory has been debunked as life forms have been found deep inside caves or lava tunnels where in no sunlight ever reached, but there was life. Anaerobic life forms have been found deep under the Mediterranean sea with missing mitochondria which is the power house of any cell that utilizes oxygen.

          But why on earth would you be interested in these facts as you are so hell bent on trying to prove some kind of a divine connection to your arguments. Sad.

          Mark Swan says:

          I have spent the past 40 years and hold four degrees in Science…nothing in true science contradicts the existence of a Creator, Life Giver, Law Giver, Designer…in fact it points clearly at a very knowledgeable Scientific Intelligence. I believe in God…I follow logic and it is logical to Me.
          —————————————————

          With all due respect sir, what do you think about the theory of evolution?

          The fact that scientists are unable to solve a certain dilemma is no justification for people like you to come with a holy book and say “Hey, Eureka! I have got all the answers to all the mysteries in life, lo’ and behold ‘The Bible’ ”

          The beauty of science and scientific research is that they are constantly questioning their very own conclusions. It was presumed that nothing escapes black hole but later came Hawking radiation proving it wrong. So you see, science learns from its mistakes and wrong assumptions to constantly strives to achieve the truth unlike people like you who are still stuck with book of fables, lol! No scientist, I repeat NO SCIENTIST claims that he or she knows the ultimate truth unlike you believers who claim the same and fail miserable every frigging time to justify it. You guys do not even have the humility to say “I don’t know”.

          Before Galileo, geocentrism was in vogue with you believers. Do you still believe in that Sir, with your four science degrees? Galileo Galilei was branded a heretic and was kept under house arrest till his death. Even then truth finally prevailed. Guess who had the last laugh.

          Mark Swan also says:
          Maddox continues, “There are also serious philosophical problems created by the Big Bang, which can be described but not explained.
          ____________________________________________
          Really what made you think that science deals with philosophy? Science is not here to cater to your emotional needs. It is here to cater to your intellectual and logical reasoning needs. What is the bible for? Go, indulge in whatever philosophical fantasies you want to with the help of the bible. Leave science alone.

        • Rev g says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 11:51 am

          Abiogenesis? And you have trouble accepting the biblical narrative? What a maroon!

        • Rev g says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 11:47 am

          Your circular logic attempt is facile. I am sure it makes you feel special.

          Regarding that, why would you trust the church’s word on something like the shroud, over that of a private citizen. That kinda undermines your circular logic attempt. The church is not the Bible, but it is a religious authority.

          No Christian I know believes through blind faith. Yes, the Bible, both testaments, is of much value. It’s value is augmented by secular evidence and historic commentary. To dismiss Bible commentary outright only underscores your own bias.

          You seem most adept at trying to tell others what they think, errantly. So sad.

        • Thought_Weaver says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 12:51 pm

          Rev g says
          April 28, 2016 at 11:51 am

          Abiogenesis? And you have trouble accepting the biblical narrative? What a maroon!
          __________________________________

          Oh yeah!….here comes the personal attacks. As expected.

          Now if you do not understand what it is let me phrase it for you. Abiogenesis is a scientific approach backed by laboratory tests and experiments to understand the process of emergence of life from non living entities. There is no scope of a comparison between the two, sir. Now, this is really sad coming from someone who claims to have four science degrees. I am not that educated sir, but i do have some common sense left in me lol!
          ——————————————-
          Rev g also says

          Your circular logic attempt is facile. I am sure it makes you feel special.
          __________________________________

          Definition of facile from merriam-webster.com
          : too simple : not showing enough thought or effort
          : done or achieved in a way that is too easy
          : working, moving, or performing well and very easily

          Now I do not see any harm in that. Writing pages after pages of illogical things does not prove your ingenuity neither does it give added weight to your arguments. If I can put forward my thoughts in an articulate and concise manner why does it bother you, sir?

          Let me have a go at it again and feel special again hahaha!
          Q. Why Jesus?
          A. Because the Bible says so.
          Q. Why Bible?
          A. Because Jesus says so.

          And sir, I use this repeatedly because that’s what most people like you do repeatedly. Refute me if I am wrong. I have no qualms or ego issues of accepting intellectual defeat, that makes me a better person. But sadly you are so full of yourself that you may not take that opportunity.
          —————————————
          Rev g still continues:

          Regarding that, why would you trust the church’s word on something like the shroud, over that of a private citizen. That kinda undermines your circular logic attempt. The church is not the Bible, but it is a religious authority.
          _______________________________

          Anyone who is not hell bent on proving his absurd points could have grasped that the church as you too rightly say is a *religious authority*, and we were discussing religion, right?. Now, if even the church hesitates to associate itself officially with the Shroud of Turin, it says something about the item and its credibility sir. What you might think in your little fluffy world with tooth fairies and easter bunnies is not of significance sir.
          ————————————————-
          Rev g still continues further:

          No Christian I know believes through blind faith.
          _______________________________

          So true that is that I do not even want to give my opinion on that 😀
          ————————————————–
          Andddddd rev g continues further more:

          Yes, the Bible, both testaments, is of much value. It’s value is augmented by *secular evidence* and historic commentary. To dismiss Bible commentary outright only underscores your own bias.
          _______________________________
          *secular evidence*? Some new term you coined, sir? Forgive my ignorance otherwise.

          P.S. I think I really lost my patience somewhere out there in the middle because it is like banging your head against the wall. I am sorry if I resorted to any personal attacks. My bad everyone.

        • Rev g says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 1:04 pm

          I am glad you look up definitions, they may help you.
          Abiogenesis….show me some.
          As opposed to the Bible which has shown a high degree of reliability as compared to secular sources. You know, secular evidence. Look the words up.

          You drip sarcasm and make personal attacks, yet are taken aback when the favor is returned? Tough.
          No need to provide those definitions for my sake. Like most of those people here, we know what the words mean already.

          You have shown that your screen name is wishful thinking on your part. Have a nice day.

        • Thought_Weaver says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 1:41 pm

          @Rev g

          I had said:
          That people buy duplicates knowing aka believing that the real one exists is the problem. Can’t you see? Perspective huh?

          Rolex is a fact so what? Jesus is not nor his extravagant claims of divinity. Now when people start adopting beliefs on false assumptions of truth, that’s a problem.

          Still if you do not get it, I believe it is time to bang my head against the wall some more 🙂

          And about your comment on personal attacks. I did apologise to all for any personal attacks that might have been thrown by me and even stated the reason for it. Don’t you even read properly? How did you manage four science degrees rev g? Incredible.

          And Angemon, I do not even expect you to understand that. You are excused. As Jerry famously once said “It is time for you to say your prayers and go to bed. Let the adults do the talking” :-p

        • Angemon says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 1:52 pm

          Thought_Weaver posted:

          “Rolex is a fact so what?”

          You should have thought about that before running with the analogy. You have no one to blame for your poor comprehension skills but yourself. And/or your parents.

          “And Angemon, I do not even expect you to understand that.”

          Understand what? That, like you stated, Rolex is a fact? That what what I said – Rolex does exist.

          “ You are excused.”

          You poor little thing! You’re head-banging so hard you’re confused – you’re the one who apologized, not I.

          “As Jerry”

          Yes, “Jerry”.

          “famously”

          Citation needed.

          “once said “It is time for you to say your prayers and go to bed. Let the adults do the talking” :-p”

          Adults don’t go around banging their heads against the wall. Just saying… Or are your walls padded for whatever reason?

        • Rev g says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 1:55 pm

          Wow, you apologized, that makes it all better. You are a buffoon. Oh, I am sorry for saying that. Even if it is true.
          There is as much or more support for the real existence of Jesus as there is for any other figure of the time. Even secular references. You may automatically disqualify anything in the Bible, but that merely confirms your bias and lack of scholarship on the matter.
          The more you write, the worse you look

        • Thought_Weaver says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 2:34 pm

          You believers are so narrow minded and arrogant to perceive humility. And poor Rev g is celebrating victory over my apology comment. Hilarious.

          My dear Angemon, why do you hold on to just one part of the comment “Rolex is a fact, so what?” What about the rest of the sentence and its context? You cannot digest simple facts, what are you gonna do with citations? Are you really that dumb or are you pretending to be one to escape reality?

          Why am I even wasting my time trying to put sense into you. You are excused again. Hehehe! Now get mad at me and show some factual Christian love to me.

          @rest of the forum
          I had to deal with so many zealous defenders of faith that it got confusing sometimes to decide who commented what. So do bear with me. And anyways I am not perfect and all knowing since I don’t have the one true book with me (pun intended). All the arguments and counter arguments are there for everyone to see and decide for themselves. I rest my case by wishing everyone health and happiness.

        • Rev g says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 2:49 pm

          I do not celebrate or delight in anyone’s incompetence. Even yours.

        • Angemon says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 5:01 pm

          rev g, I believe this accurately portrays what’s happening with “Thought_Weaver”:

          http://lol.i.trollyou.com/LOL-I-TROLL-YOU.png

        • Ted Tyler says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 5:16 pm

          Gentlemen, For a refreshing change of pace, why not sit back, relax, and watch the following video:

        • Angemon says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 4:58 pm

          Thought_Weaver posted:

          “My dear Angemon, why do you hold on to just one part of the comment “Rolex is a fact, so what?” What about the rest of the sentence and its context?”

          Huh, TW? That was the whole sentence. “Rolex is a fact so what?”. You can’t escape your own idiocy by pretending I only commented on part of a sentence. That you’re a dishonest rube was patently obvious, the only question here was how smart you actually were. And your idiocy was blatantly demonstrated the way you addressed rev g’s analogy. Had you been half as smart as you think you are or, you know, an atheist – you wouldn’t have ran with it only to cry fault after realizing how much you messed up.

          “You cannot digest simple facts, what are you gonna do with citations? Are you really that dumb or are you pretending to be one to escape reality?”

          That reminds me: I asked you… sorry, I “axed” you something a little back. Isn’t it the prevailing theory among scholars of antiquity that Jesus existed and was crucified? Also, stardusted psycho, is that you?

        • Mirren10 says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 5:12 pm

          ”Also, stardusted psycho, is that you?”

          🙂

          Actually, no, Angemon, I don’t think he is. The style seems to be different, although I would agree if you’re saying we’re dealing with a similar type of troll. On the other hand, maybe stardusty psycho has a) managed to change his style , or b) is getting his baby mama to write his screeds instead ? 🙂

        • Angemon says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 5:43 pm

          They all look the same to me – daisy snorting wannabe punks who try to get “street cred” by farting out a bunch of uneducated, idiotic, demonstrably false opinions and “rebutting” criticism by pretending their betters are angry Christians. I’ll assume you’re here long enough to see this happens cyclically – every once in a while we get a couple or so of these pigeons who barge in, spread crap around and strut out. Or maybe it’s just one individual with too much free time on their hands, time which would be better spent doing some sort of activity involving sticky fluids and a paper tissue, like cleaning their bathroom.

        • Rev g says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 9:43 pm

          Sally forth Ang, you are on a roll!

        • Mirren10 says

          Apr 28, 2016 at 6:06 pm

          Shrieks !

          Angemon, I do love you ! XX

          🙂 🙂

          ‘daisy snorting’ ?? Do explain. (!)

        • Angemon says

          Apr 29, 2016 at 8:06 am

          Scrawny little geeks with shorts up to their armpits who enjoy smelling flowers but due to sinus problems have to snort like a coke addict who hasn’t done a line in weeks.

        • Mirren10 says

          Apr 29, 2016 at 2:34 pm

          ”daisy snorters”.

          Love it. It’s right up there with ”purse rats” ! 🙂

        • Thought_Weaver says

          Apr 29, 2016 at 1:37 am

          This was my comment

          ‘Rolex is a fact so what? Jesus is not nor his extravagant claims of divinity. Now when people start adopting beliefs on false assumptions of truth, that’s a problem.’

          Angemon says:

          Huh, TW? That was the whole sentence. “Rolex is a fact so what?”. You can’t escape your own idiocy by pretending I only commented on part of a sentence.
          __________________________________

          Yes indeed that should have been *comment* instead of *sentence*. But why not? Do grasp on to my unintentionally made errors while dealing with a peaceful *pack* of believers of Jesus. What a pity.

          And look who is calling whom messed up.

          “But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.” (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 5:28-30)

          “If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell..” (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 18:8-9)

          To any reasonable person that would be outrightly stupid and outrageous. But for you guys? I do not think so. Now as you believe you all have sinned why not start chopping and gouging huh? 🙂

          You must have at least masturbated once in your life now, common. hahaha!

          That should be enough I guess. Come at me with some more christian-love you believers.

        • Rev g says

          Apr 29, 2016 at 4:28 am

          To any reasonable person that would be speaking figuratively.
          No wonder you didn’t get it.

        • Angemon says

          Apr 29, 2016 at 9:24 am

          Thought_Weaver posted:

          “This was my comment

          ‘Rolex is a fact so what? Jesus is not nor his extravagant claims of divinity. Now when people start adopting beliefs on false assumptions of truth, that’s a problem.’

          Thought_Weaver commented on Rutgers displays “artwork” of Christ crucified on a dartboard, Christians worldwide riot — no, wait….

          in response to Thought_Weaver:

          rev g says I am missing your perspective. Nowhere in the bible can I find reference to the above items as proof of anything. _________________________ Why the heck should I even refer to the bible? Is that all you can come up with? Didn’t I already say not to try this circular argument? It is […]

          This was my comment

          ‘Rolex is a fact so what? Jesus is not nor his extravagant claims of divinity. Now when people start adopting beliefs on false assumptions of truth, that’s a problem.’

          Angemon says:

          Huh, TW? That was the whole sentence. “Rolex is a fact so what?”. You can’t escape your own idiocy by pretending I only commented on part of a sentence.”

          Now, now, don’t be coy, there was some other thing in between those two:

          My dear Angemon, why do you hold on to just one part of the comment “Rolex is a fact, so what?” What about the rest of the sentence and its context?”

          “Rolex is a fact, so what?” *was* the whole sentence. Pretending I quoted only a part of it doesn’t bode well for your credibility.

          “Yes indeed that should have been *comment* instead of *sentence*. But why not?”

          Huh, because words have meanings? Because we use words and their meanings to communicate? Because the standard means of communication is based on the meaning of words? You done goofed (again), and now you’re childishly trying to pretend you didn’t.

          “Do grasp on to my unintentionally made errors”

          Again, those “errors” happen because you’re not as smart as you think you are. I’m sure that in your eco-chamber of limited intellect featherweights you’re the “heavy-hitter”, but that doesn’t mean much in the real world.

          while dealing with a peaceful *pack* of believers of Jesus. What a pity.”

          Here’s what I wrote:

          They all look the same to me – daisy snorting wannabe punks who try to get “street cred” by farting out a bunch of uneducated, idiotic, demonstrably false opinions and “rebutting” criticism by pretending their betters are angry Christians.

          Your go-to defence is to blurt out nonsense about others being Christians, as if it was some sort of crime to begin with.

          “And look who is calling whom messed up. ”

          Did I called you messed up? Or is this another of your “unintentional” “errors”, where you don’t realize that words have meanings and simply blurt them out and hope for the best? Here’s what I wrote

          Had you been half as smart as you think you are or, you know, an atheist – you wouldn’t have ran with it only to cry fault after realizing how much you messed up.

          I said you messed up, which, well, you did. You were too dimwitted to realize why you shouldn’t have accepted rev’s analogy. A smart atheist would realized it in a heartbeat.

          “To any reasonable person that would be outrightly stupid and outrageous. But for you guys? I do not think so. Now as you believe you all have sinned why not start chopping and gouging huh? 🙂

          You must have at least masturbated once in your life now, common. hahaha!

          That should be enough I guess. Come at me with some more christian-love you believers.”

          Your insistence in labelling any opposing voice as a Christian (do you spit when you say “Christian”?) blinds you to the possibility of them being atheists or agnostics who a) know what they’re talking about and b) don’t want to be associated with special snowflakes so they clean up their own backyard. Even though people told you that’s the case. Of course, you *know* better than them, don’t you?

        • Mark Swan says

          Apr 29, 2016 at 2:50 am

          Thought_Weaver…I have no idea what those missionaries put You through,
          but I am against Bible Thumpers Myself…My study of the Word of God is
          personal…God does not want anyone to attempt to convert another…When
          I showed You some evidence to demonstrate that Christ did exist and was
          crucified…I simply wanted to let You know it exists and is available…The next
          comment was to demonstrate that someone’s beliefs regardless of how strange
          They may be to You personally…might have some reasons behind them.

          Now in Your commenting You asked this question.

          “what do you think about the theory of evolution?”

          I think it is a theory…nothing more can be thought so far.

          In other words, all life—including human life—is the byproduct of natural physical processes, and is not something bestowed by an all-powerful Creator. Consider the great moral implication of this theory. If our lives are the result of a direct creative act by a real God, that God may have something to say about how we live those lives. He may hold us accountable for our choices. But if our lives are merely a fluke of biochemical processes, then there is no Supreme Authority to whom mankind is accountable, and no need to adhere to the constraints of biblical morality. After all, if human beings are merely animals, we should expect them to act like animals.

          What is the truth? Do those who dispute Darwin’s theories have a leg to stand on? Can an educated person rationally deny the claims made by evolutionary theory? What does this mean for the creation account given in the Bible’s book of Genesis? Does the Genesis account teach literal truth, or can a Christian accept the Bible as God’s word, yet believe that evolution was God’s chosen means of creation? Is it logical to believe in a Creator God?

          The answers to these questions may surprise you. When you really look at the facts, you will find that it is the evolutionists who do not have a leg to stand on! Make no mistake about it: the concept of evolution through natural selection is the basis of a particular worldview shared by most leading figures in both education and the media.

          While asserting that the fossil evidence proves Darwin’s theory correct, evolutionary theory asks its believers to accept a premise for which 99.9 percent of the data are missing!

          Anyone can invent a theory, as Darwin did. But a theory stands or falls based on the evidence. Does the evidence prove or disprove evolution? Can we see evolution currently taking place? Can it be replicated in the laboratory? If mankind and the other creatures that inhabit our world have gradually evolved from a one-celled life form over many millions of years, surely there should be fossil evidence of transitional species. After all, if changes occurred gradually, and “nature” selected only the most efficient while others died out, then the transitional species should far outnumber those with which we are familiar. The physical evidence for evolution is so minimal (as noted above, 999 out of 1,000 required pieces of evidence are missing) that evolutionists sometimes seem quite gullible in their search for evidence.

          Viewing lifelike re-creations of modern man’s supposed simian-appearing ancestors, the average person would be amazed to learn upon just how little evidence elaborate “reconstructions” are commonly made. For example, take the case of “Lucy,” whom some have touted as the “oldest human.” A small piece of the top of a skull, along with a tooth and a piece of shin bone—found scattered in the dirt more than 40 feet apart—served as the basis of this “scientific” reconstruction! Such displays reveal far more about the imagination and talent of artists than they do about the original appearance of what was actually found. Sometimes, evolutionists reach conclusions so outlandish that one might rightly wonder whether they are truly serious.

          Aside from the fossil record—in which even evolutionists admit that 999 out of every 1,000 items that they seek are missing—where is the evidence to prove Darwin’s theory? Evolutionary scientists seek support by pointing to variation within a single species. For instance, pigeons vary in size and color. On his trip to the Galapagos Islands, Darwin collected small brownish birds whose beaks displayed variations in their size and shape. Darwin interpreted this pattern of diversification as evidence of evolution, and as the means by which different species arise. However, there is a vast difference between the “micro-evolution” that is merely the variation within a particular kind of creature, and the “macro-evolution” that would cause a totally different kind of creature to develop.

          Dogs, for example, display tremendous variety of size, shape and coloring. However, they are all dogs, and in their variation are not “evolving” into something else. The ample evidence of variation and adaptation within species simply shows the marvelous engineering that God used in designing His creation. “The Darwinist materialist paradigm…is about to face the same revolution that Newtonian physics faced 100 years ago. Just as physicists discovered that the atom was not a massy particle, as Newton believed, but a baffling quantum arena accessible only through mathematics, so too are biologists coming to understand that the cell is not a simple lump of protoplasm, as Charles Darwin believed. It’s a complex information-processing machine comprising tens of thousands of proteins arranged in fabulously intricate algorithms of communication and synthesis.

          The human body contains some 60 trillion cells. Each one stores information in DNA codes, processes and replicates it in three forms of RNA and thousands of supporting enzymes, exquisitely supplies the system with energy, and seals it in semipermeable phospholipid membranes. It is a process subject to the mathematical theory of information, which shows that even mutations occurring in cells at the gigahertz pace and selected at the rate of a Google search couldn’t beget the intricate interwoven fabric of structure and function of a human being in such a short amount of time.

          Natural selection should be taught for its important role in the adaption of species, but Darwinian materialism is an embarrassing cartoon of modern science.” (George Gilder, Senior Fellow at the Discovery Institute, quoted in “Biocosm,” Wired, October 2004, p. 160). Evidence for Intelligent Design Evolutionists say that all life evolved from “simple” one-celled organisms. But how “simple” is the simple cell? In recent years, the development of powerful electron microscopes has revealed that the “simple” cell is not really so simple!

          Jonathan Sarfati is a research scientist in Australia. He holds a Ph.D. in physical chemistry from Victoria University in Wellington, New Zealand and has written about the complexity of “simple” life forms. His research has confirmed that even the simplest self-reproducing organisms contain encyclopedic quantities of complex information. The mycoplasma genitalium, which has the smallest known genome, contains 482 genes consisting of 580,000 base pairs. But there is even more. The discovery of DNA (deoxyribonucleic acid) and the genetic code of life was one of the 20th century’s most momentous scientific discoveries. Scientists found that every living organism possesses DNA, a specialized molecule containing the “code” that controls metabolism, repair, replication and specialized function. How does DNA work? Researchers have identified a four-letter genetic “alphabet” that is formed into three-letter sequences called codons. These provide the “instructions” for DNA. Even the simplest bacterium has a genome of about one million codons. As Dr. John Baumgardner, a geophysicist at Los Alamos National Laboratory, asked: “Do coded algorithms which are a million words in length arise spontaneously by any known naturalistic process? Is there anything in the laws of physics that suggests how such structures might arise in a spontaneous fashion?” Baumgardner answered his own questions with a frank scientific appraisal: “The honest answer is simple. What we presently understand from thermodynamics and information theory argues persuasively that they do not and cannot.”

          If evolutionary theory cannot explain million-codon cells, then what is the explanation? Is there evidence of intelligent design behind the world we see around us? More and more scientists are acknowledging that this is indeed the case. One of the best-known proponents of intelligent design is Dr. Michael Behe, a biochemistry professor at Lehigh University and the author of Darwin’s Black Box. Dr. Behe sees “irreducible complexity” in the microscopic workings of the flagellum and the eye. Flagella—tiny whiplike appendages on microbes—have a molecular motor so intricate that even many scientists concede that it looks like it was designed. Some argue that the flagellum is itself “irreducibly complex; others suggest that it contains two irreducibly complex subsystems whose coordination cannot be explained by evolution. As for the eye, Dr. Behe challenges evolutionists to explain the 11-cis-retinal molecule, which reacts with light to set off the biochemical process that produces vision. Note, too, the intricate cellular architecture of the retina—if you remove even a single component, then the whole system fails. We could go on and on, discussing specialized creatures ranging from bombardier beetles to woodpeckers. We could examine the life cycle and migration patterns of monarch butterflies or the sonar possessed by bats.

          The more you look into the creation, the more evidence you find of design and of irreducible complexity. We live in a universe of interrelated intricacy, not one of random chance. With all of the physical evidence that points to intelligent design, why do so many educated people cling tenaciously to an unproven theory that is not even a theory in the strict scientific use of the term, but is rather a fatally flawed hypothesis?

          Nearly two millennia ago, the Apostle Peter foretold the controversy about origins, and explained the reason behind it: “Knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, and saying, ‘Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation. For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old…” (2 Peter 3:3–5). Dismissing the evidence of the catastrophes in ages past that bespeak God’s previous intervention in judgment, they cling to a doctrine of uniformitarianism. If everything merely continues along with very gradual changes, then one need not worry about God suddenly stepping into history to call His creation into account. Make no mistake about it: the evidence of creation demands a Creator! That Creator reveals in His word that He will soon reveal Himself to His creation. A time of amazement is coming—and is coming soon, within the lifetimes of most who are reading this…our time of experimenting in everything is culminating in this time just now.

          Regardless of the religious gibberish bouncing around, God Is Reproducing His kind.

          Humans will play no small part in the virtually endless Universe.

          What these Beings are Up-To is really BIG

        • Rev g says

          Apr 29, 2016 at 4:22 am

          I too enjoy reading Michael Behe.
          Strictly speaking, natural selection is de-evolution, not evolution. It adds no new genetic information, and taken to extreme can result in a species selecting out a trait that could be vital for survival at some point in the future.

        • Mark Swan says

          Apr 29, 2016 at 6:02 am

          Thanks Rev g…Yes, Dr. Michael Behe discription of the eye is special.

          Take Care

        • Thought_Weaver says

          Apr 29, 2016 at 6:35 am

          @Mark Swan

          You have been polite and informative in your post and I really appreciate that sir. It is a welcome change.

          Even I would like an intelligent exchange of thoughts between sensible beings.

          Now, sir, I do not know how much you are aware but in India missionaries and evangelists are on a conversion spree. Now if any person converts by his own free will that is his personal choice. But when I see those priests in their sermons demonizing other revered gods especially Hindu gods and goddesses that’s kinda insulting. Now any religion should stand its ground based on its own merits. Belittling others or declaring all other religions to be hearsay, isn’t that wrong?

          As I have mentioned in other comments before @Jihadwatch.org that Jesus might have been an exceptional human being, a great philosopher, humanist but divine???….that’s an exaggeration to me.
          When it comes to religion I see Vedic Dharma having more legitimacy over divine origins than any other religions in this world. I do not subscribe to any dharma as you must have come to know by now. But that was just for the sake of argument. Vedic Dharma has been since time immemorial. And it is for all mankind. Unlike Christianity for Christians, Judaism for Jews, Islam for Muslims, and everyone else is an infidel and has to be punished or brought back to his/her senses before the end of times. And if the infidel does not conform well Islam kills apostates, and Christians merely say that one is going to burn in hell till eternity. The infidel might be the best human being on this planet but it does not matter; because he/she does not accept Jesus into his/her life so he/she is doomed to burn till eternity. I do not know how this sounds sensible and fair in your judgement.

          Why should one give preference to one religion over the other is a big dilemma. I mean that decision is certainly not being made on the basis of truth. Decisions are either made because of conveniences, threats or brainwashing. When Tsunami hit Chennai, India, in 2004 I was there pursuing my Engineering. The fishing community living along the coast were the worst affected. Their houses and livelihood guttered. Christian missionaries offered them to buy them new fishing vessels, rebuild houses for them but there was a condition, accept lord Jesus. Now, sir, I do not think that christian missionaries do not help people selflessly, they may do but what I stated is also an ugly truth that no one wants to talk about. Whoever raises these issues is automatically branded a bigot, hate monger attacking the minorities. I am sure you understand my plight as you guys are dealing with the same when it comes to Muslims. You just cannot open your mouth and all the so called liberals and leftists come pouncing at you.

          Lets come back to science. I have said it before too that just because science presently is unable to come up with an explanation for a certain event or phenomenon is no justification for the presence of a GOD. Religion In Reason Out. Simple. Why? Because if you are unable to justify a certain phenomenon and hence conclude it must be the work of god, than that’s it. One does not have to think about that phenomenon any more. You got the answers, right? WORK OF GOD. There were so many things in the past that people thought was supernatural or godly or divine but later on with the advancement of science and technology they ultimately knew exactly why. Isn’t that great? So I think we should give science ample time and not jump to divine conclusions at the drop of a hat.

          If you take the example of Galileo Galilei, what do you think would have happened if astronomy did not develop the way it did? We would have still believed that the world is flat and that the sun and all the other planets revolve around the earth, i.e., geocentrism as you definitely know. And the church and all the gibberish in the religious books would have held precedence. So my sincere plea is, do believe in what ever you want to but please keep that to yourself. Do not try to impose it on others and claim that you have the ultimate truth unless, yes, I say unless, you have solid proofs. Assumptions like That would be an insult to an educated person of your stature, sir.

          You said:

          In other words, all life—including human life—is the byproduct of natural physical processes, and is not something bestowed by an all-powerful Creator. Consider the great moral implication of this theory. If our lives are the result of a direct creative act by a real God, that God may have something to say about how we live those lives. He may hold us accountable for our choices. But if our lives are merely a fluke of biochemical processes, then there is no Supreme Authority to whom mankind is accountable, and no need to adhere to the constraints of biblical morality. After all, if human beings are merely animals, we should expect them to act like animals.
          _______________________________________

          That is your assumption sir, that is no solid proof or incentive to believe in a god. And yes human beings are animals but we also have a highly developed brain which other animals don’t possess. That sets us apart. Even among various animals we see different personalities and behavioral patterns. Dogs are more reciprocative to love and care than say a rat. Dolphins are more intelligent than shark and octopuses’ intelligence still baffles scientists. Now, just because I am unable to come to a conclusion as to why we humans are different? Why we got a superior brain? Does it mean we should forget everything and attribute it to some God?
          And the fact is, it is our misconception that we think we humans are superior than all other beings in this planet. Which is not. We cannot run at 65kmph like a cheetah does. We don not have highly evolved electrical interference sensors like the sharks do. Neither do we have night vision like that of nocturnal animals. We do not have heat or smell receptors like the Vipers use to hunt down prey and the list is endless. What I mean to say is we are not special. We are as much a part of this planet as the others are. Each being has its own strengths and weaknesses. And we humans with all other living and non living entities make up the fabric we call life. Do feel free to correct me. Thank you.

        • Thought_Weaver says

          Apr 29, 2016 at 6:47 am

          Rev g says

          April 29, 2016 at 4:28 am

          To any reasonable person that would be speaking figuratively.
          No wonder you didn’t get it.
          _______________________________

          So convenient. So when it does not suit you it becomes figurative. When it does it has to be taken literally. Oh! please. Are you a prophet or some being with divine intelligence? Who told you to take certain passages as metaphors and others as literal? Do not play this game with me.

        • Rev g says

          Apr 29, 2016 at 11:54 am

          Jesus often spoke in metaphor. If you are so ill-educated that you cannot discern when someone is speaking figuratively, I feel sorry for you.
          Here is a big hint: even way back then people understood that one’s body parts did not think and act independent of the individual.

        • Mark Swan says

          Apr 30, 2016 at 2:45 am

          Below is a Reply To: Thought_Weaver

      • Mark Swan says

        Apr 29, 2016 at 9:20 pm

        Seeing You battling all comers helped me to look deeper into what You said.
        I hope You will always fight for the truth where ever it leads You.

        “Belittling others or declaring all other religions to be hearsay, isn’t that wrong?”

        Yes Absolutely.

        “As I have mentioned in other comments before @Jihadwatch.org that Jesus might have been an exceptional human being, a great philosopher, humanist but divine???….that’s an exaggeration to me.”

        Ok Understandable so far.

        because he/she does not accept Jesus into his/her life so he/she is doomed to burn till eternity. I do not know how this sounds sensible and fair in your judgement.

        No…it does not.

        “Why should one give preference to one religion over the other is a big dilemma. I mean that decision is certainly not being made on the basis of truth.”

        No it is not…I agree.

        “Because if you are unable to justify a certain phenomenon and hence conclude it must be the work of god, than that’s it”

        If You can’t verify, that is a flawed conclusion…I agree.

        “So I think we should give science ample time and not jump to divine conclusions at the drop of a hat.”

        Yes that is exactly what is supposed to happen…truth must align with logic…fact.

        “And yes human beings are animals but we also have a highly developed brain which other animals don’t possess. That sets us apart.”

        All animals have brains…Humans have Minds…Yep We can create
        on a far lesser scale for now…what makes that so…God says there is a Spirit in Man…
        It is the connection, if You will, between The Spirit World and Flesh and Blood Man’s
        World.

        No We are not Immortal…We are Mortal.

        So, What is this all about…I can tell You what I have found in the Bible.

        Bear in Mind it will not be everything…but it will be the most simplistic wrap-up.

        Simplistic Future Description:

        We have been given our time to experiment…
        in everything…Religion…Education…Government…Social Systems…
        and everything else…this will culminate now with the Time Just Ahead.

        The Great Tribulation…a time of a powerful World Leader and a powerful
        Religious Leader…Satan will Give them both all of his support…They will be
        very popular…This Political and Religious Power will shine in World affairs
        just 3 ½ years…the final year is called The Day Of The Lord…it will be the
        most dreadful Nightmare conceivable…a most definite period of despair…
        following on the heals of so much suffering and warped misery from what
        had already preceded.

        Now a time when the Worlds armies go at it….to settle it once and for all…
        what is left of the world is going for it all…over one third of the humans on
        earth will be killed…War combined with natural disasters will be powerful and plentiful…this will be the prelude to something very amazing which will then
        follow on the already severely shattered and hopeless World Stage…Mankind
        is now on the verge of destroying all life on this earth…now comes help.

        Out of the Sky will appear such a awesome sight…very visible and very real…
        Christ…and a Host of Super Beings descending …including the first batch of
        resurrected beings along with all those who are still alive at the time…these
        were already taught and ready…all these will be transformed into spirit beings
        God’s Children…God Beings…the beginning of a huge family…
        the first resurrection has already taken place.

        The great armies of man which had gathered originally to fight one another
        to the end…will turn now to fight this invasion from outer space…Man will
        try to fight God…Man will fail miserably.

        Now We will finally Meet Our Maker.

        Now We will not be; arrogant, no. We will be humbled,
        Shaken and pitifully crushed of our own doing.

        Now We Will Accept Help.

        Now Satan will be restrained and kept away.

        Now finally that World Government that is Absolutely Perfect; Absolutely
        Needed.

        Now the Earth can rest; the beginning of a thousand year rest.

        Now a time of teaching; before the second resurrection.

        Now the second Resurrection; all who ever lived before the thousand year
        rest will be given their time to be taught.

        Now the Truth has been Taught And Practiced by all who ever lived.

        Now the Judgment.

        Now the birth of God’s Children is complete.

        Now no more Humans.

        Now no more Satan.

        Now the Earth will be completely burned off,
        evidence of Man’s existence will be gone.

        Now a Completely New Perfect pristine earth is produced.

        Now God The Father will come.

        Now Christ will Hand the Earth Over to Him.

        Now the Universe will finally receive its awaited attention.

        Now God’s tremendous family goes to work.

        Now for Something REALLY BIG.

        Now…Ready.

        You make sure You take care of Yourself the best way You can.

        Sincerely

        Mark Swan

        • Thought_Weaver says

          Apr 30, 2016 at 10:04 am

          @ Mark Swan

          With all due respect, sir, I am not convinced, which you too probably knew beforehand that I wouldn’t be 🙂 . That said a belief in a higher power may also be about personal comfort and a sense of security of knowing that there is someone who is watching and is gonna make everything all right. A sort of refuge for our feeble minds. And I have no problems whatsoever with people who believe so and thus find a sense of completion. The only thing that irritates me is when people of faith claim to know everything. That too based on books, parchments, inscriptions written thousands of years ago. What if today I claimed to be some divine being? Say some prohet. Well in todays civilized world I would not be murdered but would definitely be frowned upon, ridiculed and may be even sent to an asylum. Many new religions like scientology, universe people, church of the sub genious to name a few never could make a mark of their own, because people without any baggage of preconceptions openly scrutinized those so called religions. both scientifically, historically and logically and found them to be fake or phony. But unfortunately the so called true religions have never been given that thorough a treatment by us barring a few people, of course. They are believed to be sacred and unquestionable beliefs. Even in christianity there are so many sects who do not agree with each other on many issues. Leave atheists alone, people who claim to be christians are themselves divided. The same with Islam. And that is why it is wrong to paint all muslims with the same brush. Even though I agree that be it any sect of Islam it is demented anyways.

          And then there will always be the question why your religion only and not mine? Because all faithfuls of their respective faiths manage to manufacture enough so called credible truths to back their own religions. It is difficult, sir.

          Anyways, it was a delight debating you, unlike some other pseudo intellectuals who like to surf on my petty mistakes and grammatical errors instead of addressing the core issues. Do take care and we will be hitting on to each other quite often in this forum I guess. Be healthy, be happy. Good day sir.

        • Rev g says

          Apr 30, 2016 at 11:53 am

          You are wrong on the subject of scrutiny. The people of the past were just as intelligent as people today. That there were a number of false messianic figures is on record. Why did they garner no following?
          Don’t bother answering, just think.

        • Rev g says

          Apr 30, 2016 at 12:11 pm

          By the way, a good many people have examined the evidence in the manner you claim, and not found it wanting. Simon Greenleaf and Abraham Lincoln date back a ways, but Francis Collins is still alive and working. I am certain you have heard of C.S. Lewis, and likely are familiar with Peter Hitchens’ name via his brother. There are plenty more.
          As to the question of why this religion and not the other, that answer is simple. People evaluate the evidence! Sure, plenty inherit from their parents, true enough. But even they don’t stick around unless it makes sense to them. Excepting islam, of course, where apostasy carries a death sentence.
          As to the variety in Christian sects, the reformation spurred that. People explored the Bible, founded churches, those grew. The various sects have more in common than different.
          The net is full of information if you choose to explore.

        • Angemon says

          Apr 30, 2016 at 1:30 pm

          Thought_Weaver posted:

          “Anyways, it was a delight debating you, unlike some other pseudo intellectuals who like to surf on my petty mistakes and grammatical errors instead of addressing the core issues.”

          That reminds me: I asked you whether or not the prevailing theory among scholars of antiquity is that Jesus existed and was crucified. Still waiting for an answer
          – and no, going around saying I’m a Christian is NOT an answer.

        • Mark Swan says

          Apr 30, 2016 at 8:48 pm

          reply To: Thought_Weaver

          You have a strong mind and ask the right questions…that was why I replied to Your posts.

          If I came-off as a know-it-all, just bear in mind I am only one Human, a half of a peanut
          shell, floating in an Ocean of Humanity.

          The simplistic future view was indented as a heads-up only and nothing more.

          Maybe in the near future it will make more sense.

          Yes Man can turn anything into something else…Man’s inhumanity to Man is proof.

          I may comment again to You but not on the topics We have covered already.

          You take care of that strong mind and don’t let this world get You down.

          Sincerely

          Mark Swan

        • Thought_Weaver says

          May 1, 2016 at 4:17 am

          Angemon says
          April 30, 2016 at 1:30 pm

          Thought_Weaver posted:
          “Anyways, it was a delight debating you, unlike some other pseudo intellectuals who like to surf n my petty mistakes and grammatical errors instead of addressing the core issues.”

          That reminds me: I asked you whether or not the prevailing theory among scholars of antiquity is that Jesus existed and was crucified. Still waiting for an answer
          – and no, going around saying I’m a Christian is NOT an answer.
          __________________________________

          If you are asking about consensus only among *scholars of antiquity* I would have to disagree. I have been told by Rev g to look up the internet. Well guess what? I do quite often and hope Rev g reciprocates in kind. Now, if biblical scholars (and many of them happen to be *scholars of antiquity* too ) are to be considered then there is almost an universal consensus on the issue of Jesus’s existence and crucifixion. Now that is understandable isn’t it?

          And do remember it is the same scholars and YOU who have said that “the prevailing *theory* among scholars of antiquity is that Jesus existed and was crucified”. You people always try and point out in spite of empirical evidence that “Theory of Evolution” is a theory after all. Why this double standards when it comes to this particular theory is anybody’s guess.
          When we are confronted with the above *theory logic* by believers like you, we say that well so far evidences do bolster the Theory of Evolution but yes we probably still do not know or understand it fully since there are many missing links yet to be found.

          When? When will you believers stop being so full of yourselves claiming divine knowledge and gather enough HUMILITY to say yes “We do not know certain things, We do not understand certain phenomenons” ? When?

          Now lets dive further into the past.

          Egyptian Sun God Horus had a VIRGIN BIRTH. He too had people who followed his birth by following a STAR. His birth too was announced by ANGELS. According to this ancient mythology HERUT tried to murder the baby sun god. Now tell me who tried to murder baby Jesus dear believers? You are spot on it was HEROD. Horus too had 12 DISCIPLES, performed MIRACLE HEALING, WALKED on WATER, raised someone from dead, KILLED by CRUCIFIXION. He too was accompanied by TWO THIEVES during his crucifixion and supposedly came back to life after THREE DAYS. Are these mere coincidences? Is bible somehow plagiarized? Tell me why should I now believe in your fables?

          Well I know I know…Because it is in the Bible and because Jesus said so.

          I am really done with you guys. But believe me I hold nothing against you personally. Be happy, be healthy and be safe guys.

        • ECAW says

          May 1, 2016 at 4:54 am

          Can you provide references for your claims about Horus/Jesus?

          http://www.jonsorensen.net/2012/10/25/horus-manure-debunking-the-jesushorus-connection/

        • rev g says

          May 1, 2016 at 8:31 am

          It is amazing how much fabrication people will attempt to negate Christ. It is testament to His power, that people will go to such lengths to deny Him.

        • rev g says

          May 1, 2016 at 8:38 am

          Among scholars of antiquity a great many would have no opinion on Jesus, since not all scholars of antiquity study that portion of antiquity. Makes sense, huh?

        • Angemon says

          May 1, 2016 at 10:24 pm

          Thought_Weaver posted:

          “If you are asking about consensus only among *scholars of antiquity* I would have to disagree.”

          No, I asked you whether or not the prevailing theory among scholars of antiquity is that Jesus existed and was crucified. Yes or no. I’m not asking your personal opinion.

          “Now, if biblical scholars (and many of them happen to be *scholars of antiquity* too ) are to be considered”

          Notice that you’re the one bringing up biblical scholars, not me.

          “And do remember it is the same scholars and YOU who have said that “the prevailing *theory* among scholars of antiquity is that Jesus existed and was crucified”.”

          You’re the one bringing up biblical scholars. I’m solely talking about scholars of antiquity. Is the prevailing theory among scholars of antiquity that Jesus existed and was crucified? Yes or no.

          The rest of your post is a convoluted mess filled to the brim with ad-hominems and absurdities unrelated to the question I asked you – a question that remains unanswered. And it will remain unanswered because the answer does not fit your narrative.

        • Thought_Weaver says

          May 1, 2016 at 5:42 am

          Rev g says
          April 29, 2016 at 11:54 am

          Jesus often spoke in metaphor. If you are so ill-educated that you cannot discern when someone is speaking figuratively, I feel sorry for you.
          Here is a big hint: even way back then people understood that one’s body parts did not think and act independent of the individual.
          _________________________________

          I decided not to reply and counter anymore as believers seem to be intellectually blind. But I think I have to just one last time as this is EPIC!

          Let me give you an even bigger hint in favor of my argument (probably the biggest one lol!):

          Sadly even today in the 21st century, people believe in virgin birth, walking on water, dividing seas, slavery, misogyny, easter bunnies, tooth fairies, creationism, geocentrism, earth is flat, homosexuals are criminals, blah! blah! blah!

          Logging off 🙂

        • rev g says

          May 1, 2016 at 8:13 am

          What an odd, spurious list of “beliefs” Yes people believe miraculous things do occur. Miraculous means beyond explanation, so they are right. Think on that.
          Virgin birth, outside of the miraculous, can actually occur. Rare, but possible. Go figure.
          Some insects walk on liquid water. I have, with a layer of solid water between my feet and the liquid water, of course. So it is not a belief, it is a reality as well. The miraculous version is cooler, granted.
          Divided seas? Wind blown seas actually exposing the sea bed? You don’t “believe” that? Too bad, since it really happens.
          Slavery, you give it one word? There is a whole lot to that subject, and the Judeo-Christian Biblical treatment is quite a contrast to Islamic or pagan versions. No wonder you didn’t go into details. Especially since it was Christians that rallied to end the practice. They succeeded in much of the world.
          Misogyny? Since when is treating women differently because they are different a prejudice? Especially in years past, those differences mattered. Of course, Christ’s example had quite an effect on equalizing the place of women in society. What was your point?
          The Easter bunny? That pagan symbol of fertility? The early church tried to ease converts transition to Christianity by mingling pagan symbolism when the feast days coincided. Thus Eostre, a fertility goddess, and the symbols of fertility, bunnies, eggs, green grass.
          Tooth fairy? Are we now talking about your god?
          Creationism. We know the world wasn’t. and then it was. It was created. Not much to say there. Some claim it was an accident, others don’t.
          Geocentrism is not in the Bible. Nor is a flat earth. Of course, you likely have a poor understanding of the whole Galileo thing as well.
          Homosexuals as criminals? Strange wording. Acting against the will of God, sure. Acting in an unnatural manner, yes. Is it a mental affliction? It was, for a a very long time. What changed? Oh, a large number of homosexuals in the psych field, a lobby of sorts. That’s what happened.
          Yes, blah blah blah does best describe your little rant. I am not sure what argument you are trying to argue. Nothing coherent it seems.

        • Mirren10 says

          May 1, 2016 at 11:40 am

          ECAW says:

          ”Can you provide references for your claims about Horus/Jesus?”

          Very interesting blog, ECAW. Thanks for posting the link.

        • Mark Swan says

          May 1, 2016 at 7:01 pm

          Reply To: rev g says May 1, 2016 at 8:13 am

          I would like what You Wrote…and add this for Your Perusal Only.

          Lots of things are invisible to our eyes. For example, we cannot see air, gravity, heat or sound. In the world of make-believe, magic cloaks or rings can make one invisible. In science fiction, cloaking devices make space ships invisible. Scientists work with stealth technology to try to make things seem invisible, or as close as possible.

          But, what about the truly invisible things? The human eye can only detect light within a portion of the electromagnetic spectrum, called the visible spectrum, which is between wavelengths from 390 to 700 nanometers, or a frequency of 430 to 790 terahertz. Wavelengths outside of this spectrum, such as infrared and ultraviolet, can only be detected by instruments or by some animals, birds and insects that are equipped to see light beyond human capability. Some animals may not be able to see the complete range of light that we can see. So, visibility depends on the eyes of the one looking.

          Some individuals cannot distinguish the color green or red that most of us can easily distinguish. Some have trouble distinguishing between blues and greens and to others yellow-orange may appear to be pink. These color vision deficiencies are commonly known as being color blind, though it really is not blindness but impairment in color discrimination. There are various conditions or types of color blindness and various diseases of the eye which limit or disable normal vision.

          Many are familiar with the old saying that “seeing is believing.” This is an idiomatic expression people often use to express that they will only believe something if they can see it with their own eyes. But, does seeing something make it so? And does not seeing something mean that it does not exist?

          Henry Wadsworth Longfellow said, “The sky is filled with stars, invisible by day.” We cannot see the stars during the day because the sunlight turns the atmosphere blue, overpowering the faint light of the stars. However, at night the sky becomes clear and we can see the stars. Not seeing them during the day does not mean that they only exist at night.

          “Invisible” things do still exist. We can know that air, gravity, heat and sound exist, or that love, hate, joy and humor exist even though we cannot see these things. We determine their existence by other means.

          The Apostle Paul made an important statement about vision and understanding when writing to the Church in Corinth. He said that things that people can see are temporary, but that things which people cannot see are eternal—and that God can open the way for eternal things to be “seen.” In 2 Corinthians 4:18 he explained that because of the light of the gospel, true Christians are able to understand the otherwise “invisible” things. The god of this world (Satan), on the other hand, has blinded many “who do not believe” so that the light of the gospel won’t shine on them (v. 4).

          Paul tells us in Colossians 1:16 that there are created things that are both visible and invisible. We read that Christ created all things in the heavens and on the earth, whether visible or invisible. The Bible also reveals that God is invisible to human beings. Jesus, when He came in the flesh, was visible. He was in the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15). Christ said that no one has seen God the Father except Himself (John 6:44). After Jesus’ resurrection, He was again eternal, immortal and invisible to mortal perception (1 Timothy 1:17). We can know that the invisible God truly exists. While we cannot see the invisible God Himself, we can “perceive” Him by the things that He has made (Romans 1:20)—and with God’s calling, we can understand His plan for His creations.

          Jonathan Swift said, “Vision is the art of seeing what is invisible to others.

          We can ” Enhance our vision when We learn about the invisible God…is that along the lines of what You are saying…anyway I did appreciate the approach You took.

          Thanks….Sincerely

          Mark Swan

        • Mark Swan says

          May 2, 2016 at 12:48 am

          rv g…that first line should have read…I would like to thank You for what You wrote.

          just typing too fast…please try to excuse it.

        • Rev g says

          May 2, 2016 at 1:37 am

          I typically am reading and responding from my phone, as I am now. I completely understand any mistakes made in responses. Lack of edit capability is frustrating.
          Have seen a program about what some insects look like seen ultravioletly. Amazing. Great post.

        • Mark Swan says

          May 2, 2016 at 4:33 am

          Thank you Rev g take care

        • Mark Swan says

          May 2, 2016 at 4:58 am

          Reply To: rev g says…May 1, 2016 at 8:31 am

          “It is amazing how much fabrication people will attempt to negate Christ. It is testament to His power, that people will go to such lengths to deny Him.”

          I felt I should add this to Your comment…so here it is.

          Also, there are more than 100 fulfilled prophecies in the Old Testament foretelling the coming of the Messiah. Among them is Isaiah’s prophecy that the Messiah would be a descendant of King David, the son of Jesse (Isaiah 11:1), that the Messiah would be born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14), that He would live in Galilee (Isaiah 9:1–2), that His mission would include the Gentiles (Isaiah 42:1–4) and that He would die with the wicked (Isaiah 53:9). Other prophecies foretold that He would be born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2), that He would be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12–13), that He would enter Jerusalem on a donkey (Zechariah 9:9) and that He would be like a smitten shepherd (Zechariah 13:7). These are just a sampling of the many prophecies that came to pass about the birth, life and death of Jesus Christ.

  17. abad says

    Apr 26, 2016 at 7:16 pm

    Rutgers is one of THE most liberal schools out there (right up there with Oberlin!).

    Now, I think that “artwork” is ugly but no I won’t be hunting down and beheading the artist.

    Heck, I won’t even be writing to Rutgers to complain about this.

    I am a very busy person and have better things to do with my time than harp upon this sort of junk.

    • Myxlplik says

      Apr 26, 2016 at 7:42 pm

      And that is why this is art, because that’s the point. Nobody dies, nobody gets hurt, the library is still a “safe place”, the artist doesn’t have to go Molly Norris.

      If any calls are made, it should be to put it back up, but I think the Liberals in charge are worried about what the implications are for the “Religion of Pieces”. I’m with Mort, not sure, but I think the artist was making a point.

      • Jay Boo says

        Apr 27, 2016 at 2:27 am

        Will those liberal universities dare reveal the history of Muhammad’s disgraceful life of perversion?

        We do not even have to make stuff up.
        The evidence is overwhelming.

        • Ted Tyler says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 1:14 pm

          Spot on Jay Boo. Can you imagine Rutgers or Brandeis trying to teach a course on the actual life of Muhammad and follow this with the atrocities committed by the Ottoman empire? The Social Justice Warriors and the Muslim Students Association would join forces and riot and the Muslim Brotherhood would see that all funding was withdrawn from those Universities.

  18. somehistory says

    Apr 26, 2016 at 9:07 pm

    Those who do not believe in, or bother to show respect for, our Creator or His Son have no concept of Righteousness.

    moslims kill over a ham sandwich…much like a prosecutor will indict one. Or lack of a scarf, or makeup, or a look, a word, a building…anything in which they see something of value to those who don’t worship their beast.

    People fear what moslims will do to them if they make them angry. So any artwork or insults or a showing of a lack of respect for the murdering raper of children, is off limits. Fear holds the comic, artist, politician or writer, in check.
    Those same people do not fear what Christians will do, so anything is fair game.

    But, the *artist*…(and this person who paints, sketches, etc. does not see any art in this piece)… and all of those who like it or laugh over it…would do well to remember that Christians worship the God who created the universe and told one of His children to write:

    “It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God (Hebrews 1031).”

    Christians don’t *exact vengeance*…but our Creator will.
    “Kiss the Son, lest God be angry, and you perish in the way (Psalm 2:12).”

  19. common sense says

    Apr 26, 2016 at 9:59 pm

    Turning the other cheek when slapped in the face in the times of Jesus meant: displaying to the abuser in no uncertain terms that you are not a slave or submissive in any way. It’s ok to fight back pray later.
    Mohamed knew if he printed his vile filth that all the murders and rapists would join up together too bad it continues to this day only because we allow it. As in all things the US Government just needs to get out of the way and we could fix our dying country. Its all very simple whether or not you believe in God or an after life. If your atheist you will understand just as well when you very life is threatened. To understand life you must stand at the point of a sword.

  20. Peggy says

    Apr 26, 2016 at 10:21 pm

    They should leave it there as an example of how not to do it.

  21. somehistory says

    Apr 27, 2016 at 12:21 am

    One last thought on this *non-art*. Since no one knows today what Jesus Christ looked like, no one can really *depict* Christ.
    Jesus was a perfect Man in mind, body and spirit. Even if an artist takes as an example a Jewish man, no matter how handsome, etc. the man might be as a model for artwork, there is no way to represent a perfect Man, God’s Son, no human living has seen.

    This is not art made for the purpose of uplifting a person of faith in Christ. It was meant to be offensive to Christians. But many of us will not be *offended* in the usual sense of the word in that it is not Christ being persecuted and tortured to death.
    Christ is a Spirit in Heaven, having great power.
    This non-art is disrespectful, but not worthy of losing any sleep over, much less losing our Christian standing by doing something violent.

    • Miao Zedong says

      Apr 27, 2016 at 1:24 am

      I wouldn’t be offended by that piece and could even imagine it as the ultimate form of worshipping Jesus by british pub goers. It’s the double standards observed over years that makes offensive what would have been shrugged off in the past as the recomposition of a plastic figurine and a dart board…

      • Mark Swan says

        Apr 28, 2016 at 11:15 pm

        Miao Zedong…Thank You….Why some university would allow it…we’re just not in Kansas
        anymore…I guess…(times have changed)

        “recomposition of a plastic figurine and a dart board”…You Got It.

    • gravenimage says

      May 1, 2016 at 12:05 am

      The “artist” did not create this image of Jesus–he just got an inexpensive plastic crucifix and affixed it to a dart board with darts. It probably took him no more than a few minutes to “create”.

      • Angemon says

        May 1, 2016 at 10:14 pm

        You know what I’d like to see, GI? Piss Isa. Take “Piss Christ” and replace the word “Christ” with “Isa”. Present it to the same art critics who praised “Piss Christ” and let them know who Isa is. See if their reviews differ. Same for “Christ on a dartboard” – make that “Isa on a dartboard”.

        Heck, make a whole exhibit with “blasphemous” representations of Christ, invite all relevant press and critics, record what they have to say about the works and in the end – right before saying “party’s over, you can go home now”, reveal that it’s not Christ but Isa, the muslim knock-off.

        • linnte says

          May 1, 2016 at 11:04 pm

          Whoa! Your mind is….deliciously disturbed! Hahahaha! That is a phenomenal idea! We all could slap together a show like that and have it in New York. Let me know you all, if you could contribute, because I have a very good friend in NY who just might be able to pull this off for us!

        • gravenimage says

          May 1, 2016 at 11:16 pm

          Yes–compare and contrast the responses.

        • Rev g says

          May 1, 2016 at 11:18 pm

          Excellent idea!

  22. Jay Boo says

    Apr 27, 2016 at 2:51 am

    Never doubt for one second the true (ROOT CAUSE) for this attack on Christianity.

    — Muslims

    • Ted Tyler says

      Apr 27, 2016 at 1:21 pm

      All this talk and all we really need is an interview with the artist to find his or her motivation.

    • gravenimage says

      May 1, 2016 at 12:06 am

      Oh, probably not. It is most likely that this is an Infidel student who considers this sort of stupidity “transgressive”.

  23. Jay Boo says

    Apr 27, 2016 at 3:00 am

    Sad news
    Atheist Sam Harris (equivocated) and back peddled on his comment about Islam being (THE) — mother load of bad ideas. He says he misspoke.

    The Muslim collaborating Left got to him.

    • Jay Boo says

      Apr 27, 2016 at 3:05 am

      Not to worry

      We still have Richard Dawkins to battle the Pedophile Prophet from Mecca.

      • Ted Tyler says

        Apr 27, 2016 at 1:33 pm

        That was a “low blow” Jay Boo (pun intended). You bring a video to the JW site where baby Dawkins gets himself molested. Sort of funny, but the time could be better spent with Dawkins in Christopher Hitchens mode actually busting Islamic apologists.

    • Fessitude says

      Apr 27, 2016 at 3:47 pm

      More likely, the sly Muslim “Reformer” Maajid Nawaz, with whom Sam has been collaborating for over a year now, has gotten to him. Shame on Sam for being such a witless gull.

  24. ECAW says

    Apr 27, 2016 at 4:34 am

    After the unpleasantness in Woolwich woke me up the very first thing I started to notice was the casual viciousness of artists, Guardian journalists and particularly comics towards Christianity and their respectful restraint towards Islam (except Pat Condel PBUH) and it pissed me off no end.

    What would be an equivalent of this piece of gratuitous juvenile callousness? Perhaps a model of Mohammed kneeling in front of a trench with his head falling forward and a sword half way through his neck. It could be explained as an ironic, post-modern sort of reference to his own decapitatory tendencies.

    Perhaps the librarians were smart enough to think if this dartboard stays up the next thing you know, some kid from the university atheist society will be demanding equal space for something like the above and then what would they do?

  25. Drajkutek says

    Apr 27, 2016 at 5:12 am

    Hey, zany, try to put Muhammad’s puppet the same way!

  26. DFD says

    Apr 27, 2016 at 6:52 am

    Hi all,

    slightly but not exactly off topic. But well worth noting. This morning I found this in PI (Politically Incorrect) Magazin, sat down and translated it into English:

    Resolution of the German Parliament (Bundestag) 13/4445 of 23 April 1996
    =========================================================

    The Federal Republic of Germany condemns the Chinese migration policy into Tibet, because it destroys the Tibetian identity:

    […] In view that the Tibet has, throughout history, maintained its own ethnic, cultural ans religious identity, the Bundestag condemns the policies of the Chinese institutions/government departments, which are resulting in the destruction of the identity of the Tibetians. In particular the settling of large numbers of Chinese peoples in Tibet, forced abortions (rape). Also the political, religious and cultural persecution or undermining of the country, as well as the gradual subjugation of the country under a Chinese controlled administration. [..]

    The parliament demands that Federal Government (Bundesregierung) to urge the Chinese government to refrain from politics which will or could result in the destruction of Tibetian culture. As for instance the large number of Chinese migrants and the persecution of those Tibetians representing Tibetian culture or wanting to maintain it.

    According to a UN-Resolution, from 1990, the attempt to use mass migration in order to marginalize the indigenous population is reason for war! Germany confirmed and accepted that resolution.

    It says:

    The security council condemns the Iraqi attempts to change the demographic structure of the population of Kuwait, and to destroy the official documents of the government of Kuwait in reference to said demographic structure. {The actual English text will differ, in its wording, this has been translated from German}

    And the ‘Convention to avoid and punish genocide’ resolved in the general assembly of the UN as “Resolution 260 A (III)” on the 9 December 1948, which took legal force on the 12 January 1951:

    As genocide to be punished: “…Who deliberately attempts to destroy partially or completely a national, ethnic or religious group or people” by:

    1. Killing the members of such group / nation
    2. Causes severe bodily or psychological harm to members of such group / nation
    3. To cause within the nation or group conditions suitable to cause the complete, or partial, physical destruction of said group.
    4. Arranging for a reduction (or shift) in the birth pattern of said group
    5. Native children to be forced into the alien/migration/invading group

    It is interesting to not that what is illegal under international law, or UN resolution, and German government agreement, is being forced upon the German people; and by other governments upon the respective peoples, whilst China is condemned for the same actions in reference to Tibet.

    If we are not governed by hypocrites, liars and traitors, then those terms need to be refined.

    (PS: I trust a bit of cross posting will be appreciated and excused)

    • Ted Tyler says

      Apr 27, 2016 at 7:11 am

      Yes, your cross post is interesting, informative, disturbing, and appreciated. It is consistent with the observation that the destruction of the Tibetan culture by China is condemned – but the destruction of the European culture by Islam is allowed.

    • linnte says

      Apr 27, 2016 at 10:52 am

      This is amazing! The gaul of Merkel! The gaul of any world leader today! Thanks DFD for this.

    • Mark Swan says

      Apr 27, 2016 at 9:37 pm

      DFD Thanks…The UN has failed the purpose to be what it was hoped to be, too many times.

  27. Lanya LaPunta says

    Apr 27, 2016 at 7:50 am

    Interesting to note the back and forth banter between some atheist and others.

    “Level 7” atheist … new term, of which I was not familiar. Learn something new every day (even an old fart such as myself).

    If some atheist deigns to make disparaging remarks about Judaism or Christianity … let it be so.

    However, when atheists and islamophiliacs point to the violence within the Pentateuch (Torah, to my Jewish brethren) … This violence was aimed at the religious group itself. Acts of G-d (acts of nature for the atheist reader) were performed, in Egypt, not by the Hebrews … but by G-d (nature for the atheist reader).

    The death sentences … taking the Lord’s name in vain, murder, etc., …. those were “violent” sentences for the Hebrews, not imposed upon others.

    For the most part, the atheist with whom I have had contact are islamophiliacs. Perhaps, not all … just the ones that I have encountered.

    Therein lies the rub.

    • Ted Tyler says

      Apr 27, 2016 at 8:16 am

      Hi Lanya, Here is a link to the Richard Dawkins 7-Point scale: https://shadowtolight.wordpress.com/2012/06/24/dawkins-7-point-scale/
      I like to say that I am a 7 so that you know where I am coming from. I am aware that one cannot prove or disprove the existence or non-existence of a totally invisible entity, so one could be 6.999 – but not 7. I just use 7 to annoy Champ.

      • Champ says

        Apr 27, 2016 at 6:25 pm

        “Ted” wrote:

        “I just use 7 to annoy Champ.”

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        Further proving my point that “Ted’s” initial comment to me (above, on this thread) is *not* as innocent and innocuous as he pretends.

        At least here, however, he admits to setting out to “annoy” me.

        Ironically, more than annoying me, he’s only demonstrating what an ass he truly is; and I’m not annoyed but amused at how shameless hes become.

        Keep ’em coming “Ted”, you’re only proving my point with each offering.

        • Ted Tyler says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 6:53 pm

          Champ, It has been interesting, but we both should focus now on destroying Islam.

        • Champ says

          Apr 27, 2016 at 7:21 pm

          Champ, It has been interesting, but we both should focus now on destroying Islam.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Both? Speak for yourself “Ted”, and we’ll see just how long that *you* are able to focus on the real enemy: islam, since you are the one who needed reminding. Remember, that was the point that I tried to make with *you* yesterday.

          Glad that you’ve finally come around. This is very good news. But don’t ever speak for me again. Speak for yourself, and only yourself. Got it? Good.

          You’re welcome! 🙂

  28. Matt says

    Apr 27, 2016 at 9:14 am

    “Art” is such a vague term now, and, like a lot of vague terms, it’s based largely on subjectivity, which helps explain why the left loves “art.” so much; nowadays, it’s basically just an avenue for/excuse to offend people you don’t like under the banner of free expression.

    But seriously, this “art” looks like something a frat boy threw together in a hurry just to have something to turn in, and knowing what kind of pretentious goober his/her professor was, probably had a laugh knowing they would think it was somehow profound.

    • Fessitude says

      Apr 27, 2016 at 3:54 pm

      “But seriously, this “art” looks like something a frat boy threw together in a hurry just to have something to turn in”

      The artist (still anonymous) should get together with Clock Boy Ahmed. They could trade tips on how to manufacture stunts.

  29. Matt says

    Apr 27, 2016 at 9:16 am

    “Art” is such a vague term now, and, like a lot of vague terms, it’s based largely on subjectivity, which helps explain why the left loves “art.” so much; nowadays, it’s basically just an avenue for/excuse to offend people you don’t like under the banner of free expression.

    But seriously, this “art” looks like something a frat boy threw together in a hurry just to have something to turn in, and knowing what kind of pretentious goober his professor was, probably had a laugh knowing they would think it was somehow profound.

    • Mark Swan says

      Apr 28, 2016 at 9:37 am

      You Got It Matt

    • gravenimage says

      May 1, 2016 at 11:18 pm

      True, Matt.

  30. Myxlplik says

    Apr 27, 2016 at 11:41 am

    What a stimulating piece of art, having been the subject of such in depth debate and thought here at Jihadwatch. You think a field with some flowers and a sunset would get more than a passing nod of approval? Perhaps it would, but I doubt it. I’d say this work of art was a resounding success and quite a plug for Christanity as a whole, which truly earned the title, “Religion of Peace”. I’m sure many will see the true spirit of peace, and tolerance, which separates Christianity, through Jesus, from most other Faiths. This is the beauty of art, because it is open to interpretation and speaks different things to different people, beyond the intent of the artist.

    You all, by the quality and quantity of your vigorous debate prove the artistic quality of this piece. Thanks for your participation.

    • Myxlplik says

      Apr 27, 2016 at 12:23 pm

      Maybe I’ll send this article and comment section to Rutgers as proof of the pertinent artistic quality of this piece.

      • Mark Swan says

        Apr 28, 2016 at 9:39 am

        Good One

  31. Mubarak says

    Apr 27, 2016 at 5:17 pm

    “We don’t have to cater to the wills of the Church or any denomination of Christianity or religion”, a student wrote on Facebook.
    Well, “God is not mocked” so if we won’t “cater to the wills” of this religion, we will be compelled to cater to Islam. Make your choice! –
    The judgments of God are ironic, as a theologian has observed.

    • gravenimage says

      May 1, 2016 at 11:24 pm

      The appalling Mubarak is back:

      “We don’t have to cater to the wills of the Church or any denomination of Christianity or religion”, a student wrote on Facebook.
      Well, “God is not mocked” so if we won’t “cater to the wills” of this religion, we will be compelled to cater to Islam. Make your choice! –
      The judgments of God are ironic, as a theologian has observed.
      …………………………

      Save perhaps for the last line, this may sound plausibly Christian–but it is not.

      Mubarak has before flogged the idea that if the West is to return to its morality, that it needs an influx of rapist Muslims to teach women a lesson.

      He has also said that the Pope should welcome Muslim invaders because Christians need to be chastised using Muslim thugs as God’s instrument.

      In the end, he is a nasty piece of work–implying that if Christians and other Westerners do *anything* to defend ourselves–including simply sticking at letting in millions of Jihadists–that we are violating Christian and Western values.

      He had decamped for a while, but now he is back with his ugly bs.

  32. Guest says

    Apr 27, 2016 at 9:01 pm

    God’s not dead

  33. TheBuffster says

    Apr 27, 2016 at 11:46 pm

    I’m an atheist, but I find this “artwork” revolting. It’s completely mean-spirited and contemptuous of a figure whose message actually was peaceful and forgiving, whatever one may think of the literal truth of the story and whatever disagreements one may have with Jesus or the rest of the Bible. I don’t see the point of this kind of display, except to shock and to gain some notoriety.

    It’s not as if public disrespect to Jesus is needed in order to stand up to violent attempts to suppress freedom of speech, as it is with Islam and Mohammad. If Mohammad had been a truly peaceful, benevolent man and if Muslims reacted no more violently to his abuse than Christians do to the abuse of Christ, I’d find it offensive to abuse Mohammad’s image just as I find it offensive to abuse Jesus’s.

    But Mohammad was a villain and a threat to every non-believer’s life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.

    But one thing I wonder about: Jesus is supposed to be an important prophet of Islam. He’s supposed to come back on Judgment Day and break all the crosses and judge people, isn’t he? So why don’t Muslims go nuts when people disrespect Jesus like this?

    • Mirren10 says

      Apr 28, 2016 at 8:54 am

      ”Jesus is supposed to be an important prophet of Islam. He’s supposed to come back on Judgment Day and break all the crosses and judge people, isn’t he? So why don’t Muslims go nuts when people disrespect Jesus like this?”

      Good point, Buffster.

      Me, I think that they don’t underlines what nonsense it is. mohammedans don’t *really* think ‘Isa’ is a real prophet – it’s just bs to snow the unbelievers. Same with Mary, or ‘Maryam’.

    • gravenimage says

      May 1, 2016 at 11:26 pm

      Agreed, Buffster and Mirren.

  34. blitz2b says

    Apr 28, 2016 at 12:41 pm

    Randy whines about cruelty of the native Indians by Christians… No amount of apologies by the church is enough… What if it were Islam that took over North America instead of Christianity? Randy would not be Randy but some Islamic name prefixed with Mohammed, all the native Indians would be converted to Islam, their women would be in head bags and there would be not a peep heard from this nation about how countless heads rolled off of the shoulders of the brave Indian warriors who in vain resisted the death cult of the Arabian dessert.
    Right now Randy probably enjoys benefits from civilized western nations founded on the tenets of Christianity so he has the freedom to whine and complain all he wants…. and he knows it.

    • Guest says

      Apr 29, 2016 at 3:53 am

      He’s just being a cyber bully.

    • gravenimage says

      May 1, 2016 at 11:26 pm

      *Very* true.

    • Champ says

      May 1, 2016 at 11:36 pm

      Right now Randy probably enjoys benefits from civilized western nations founded on the tenets of Christianity so he has the freedom to whine and complain all he wants…. and he knows it.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Bravo, Blitz2b!

  35. gravenimage says

    Apr 30, 2016 at 9:21 pm

    Rutgers displays “artwork” of Christ crucified on a dartboard, Christians worldwide riot — no, wait…
    …………………..

    This is because Christians are civilized people–not like ravening Muslims.

  36. gravenimage says

    Apr 30, 2016 at 9:23 pm

    I’m embarrassed that this moron is considered an “artist” like myself.

    This is not only ugly, it is witless and lazy.

    But no–this idiot may believe he is being “transgressive”, but he is in no danger from Christians.

    • linnte says

      Apr 30, 2016 at 11:37 pm

      I agree!

    • Champ says

      Apr 30, 2016 at 11:57 pm

      Graven wrote:

      “…but he is in no danger from Christians.”

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Precisely, Graven! 🙂

      However, this so-called “artist” will have to answer to God:

      “Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: ‘It is mine to avenge; I will repay,’ says the Lord.” — Romans 12:19

    • Mark Swan says

      May 1, 2016 at 12:25 am

      Your right, gravenimage, that word artist, has been thrown around rather loosely, to say the least.

    • gravenimage says

      May 1, 2016 at 11:27 pm

      Yes, linnte, Champ, and Mark.

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