Their role is obvious; the pages detailing their role in the 9/11 Commission Report wouldn’t have been classified for all these years if it were innocuous. Now they’re threatening blackmail unless we continue to toe the line. It’s long past time to end this sham alliance with the government that has spent hundreds of billions of dollars to enflame the jihad around the world.
“Report: Saudis vow to sell US assets if Congress decides gov was involved in 9/11,” FoxNews.com, April 16, 2016:
Saudi Arabia has reportedly told the Obama administration and congressional leaders that it will sell billions of dollars in U.S. financial assets if Congress passes a bill to make the Saudi government legally responsible for any role in the 9/11 attacks.
The administration has tried to stop Congress from passing the legislation, a bipartisan Senate bill, since Saudi Foreign Minister Adel al-Jubeir last month told Washington lawmakers his country’s position, according to The New York Times.
Al-Jubeir purportedly informed the lawmakers during a trip to Washington that Saudi Arabia would be forced to sell as much as $750 billion in Treasury securities and other American financial assets on the world market, fearing the legislation could become law and U.S. courts would then freeze the assets.
The revelations about the Saudis’ ultimatum come several days after reports that President Obama will soon decide whether to declassify 28 pages of sealed documents suspected of showing a Saudi connection to the deadly 9/11 terror attacks.
Former Florida Democratic Sen. Bob Graham told Fox News on Tuesday that the White House told him a decision on whether to declassify the documents would be made within 60 days.
Graham helped lead a 2002 congressional inquiry into the attacks.
The Bush and Obama administrations have refused to unseal the documents, arguing their release would jeopardize national security.
Critics claim the reluctance is a calculated move to hide Saudi Arabia’s involvement in the al Qaeda terror attack that killed almost 3,000 people on U.S. soil on Sept. 11, 2001….
R Russell says
Obama will comply with the Saudis, they are after all his handlers.
Don McKellar says
A PRESIDENT TRUMP WILL NOT BOW. In fact he has many times now hinted very clearly as to how he will hold these Islamic monsters to account. They are not talking in this story about Obama the secret moslem — it is a veiled response to Trump.
Don McKellar says
In other words, if Obama the moslem doesn’t unseal these documents, Trump will. 100% certain.
mortimer says
If the Saudi government was involved in 9/11, it constitutes an act of war. If it was financed and managed by Saudis, it constitutes crimes against humanity to be tried in the World Criminal Court.
Either way, Saudis must be dragged before the world court and made to pay for their crimes.
On 9/11 not only was the financial headquarters of the world attacked, the POLICE headquarters of the world (the Pentagon) was also attacked.
Some hornets’ nests! Time for the Saudis to be judged.
Carolyne says
When Obama went to Saudi Arabia and bowed to and kissed the hand of the Saudi king, how could anyone not understand that Obama is one of them? His trained monkey spokesman tried to say that he didn’t really do that, it was just that the king was short and Obama had to bend over to great him. However, Obama had just come from a visit to the Queen of England who is shorter than the king and Obama didn’t bow and kiss her hand.
If the flow of money from the Saudis to buy our leaders stops, they will be very upset. I doubt they will let that happen. After all, how much money have they given the money laundering Clinton Foundation?
I have heard that Bush arranged to fly the Saudis out of the country after 9/11 but I’ve never seen any proof of it,. Not that I don’t believe it is possible, even probable, but I’d like more than hearsay. After the Boston bombing, a young Saudi was arrested and apparently slightly injured and hospitalized. It was reported that Michelle Obama visited him in the hospital and he was released forthwith and flown back to Saudi. I have seen a picture purporting to be Michelle leaving his hospital room, but I am not sure it is legit. wouldn’t doubt that it could be true, though. And when gas was rising precipitously, Obama said he wouldn’t care if it went to $5. Of course he wouldn’t. We, the taxpayers, buy his gas.
خَليفة says
Yes, Caroline, on 9/12/01, when all flights in the US were grounded, a plane full of Saudis departed the us. They never released the list of who was on that plane. And this was before it was publicly known that the majority of 9/11 hijackers were in fact Saudis.
i was in the process of moving into DC at that time – I knew who bin laden was and how dangerous he was long before he was a household name.
In case you didn’t know, Osama Bin Laden has lots of family living in the us, they own lots of rental properties in Boston and Massachusetts area. Much of his family in us rejected his ideology as we’re enjoying living large away from sharia.
Rob says
There’s a good campaign promise right there.
Both Trump and Cruz should make it firm policy.
Peggy says
Makes you wonder if Trump will ever become the president then.
If by some chance he becomes the president I would really worry about his safety.
There is no justice in the world and as much as we would all love for all criminal to face charges the reality is that it will never be that way.
SA getting away with 9/11 is probably a reality but what is even more painful is the coverup and continued goodwill they enjoy with US.
In my opinion US governments past and present are guilty of treason because they kept a good relationship with the enemy.
linnte says
Even BEFORE I started reading Qur’an, I knew our Government had something to do with 9/11. Bushes facial expression when in that classroom with kindergartners didn’t flinch. Nothing. I have watched that video in slow motion(wish I could post it)and no one could have not reacted the way he did if he wasn’t expecting it. That man didn’t even BLINK.
DP111 says
The Saudis have been pampered by the West for so long, that they have developed a very high opinion of themselves. The fact remains though that these people have neither the IQ or the resources that make them a match for even Belgium. Any middling Western nation can kick Saudi ass any which way you like, anytime.
They survive because America thinks they are a useful tool.
The Oracle says
That is exactly correct DP111. The Saudi’s are the laziest people on earth. The vast majority of any type of manual labor is done by imported workers from poor countries and then they’re treated worse than dogs.
In college there were two Saudi students on my dormitory floor, each one roomed with an American student whose parents had ties to the oil industry, these Americans tutored them throughout the year and made sure they passed their classes. They were horrible students and people. You would lone them money, it was never paid back.
Without oil, Saudi Arabia would be just another fetid Muslim shit factory.
gravenimage says
That’s exactly what Saudi was before their unearned oil wealth, Oracle.
Hope says
Trump is probably the only current presidential candidate who did not have insider knowledge of this cover-up. The others – senators, former congressman, and Sec. of State most likely have known about these 28 pages all along. Trump had the guts to talk about it a few months ago, implicating the Saudis. “You (meaning the public) will find out,” he said.
Soloview says
Actually, this one is on Bush and him alone. If I read the comments of John Lehman (Reagan’s secretary of the Navy) on the expunged “28 page”s correctly (CBS 60 Minutes), G.W. will likely displace Benedict Arnold as America’s biggest traitor. In case you don’t know – and this is not classified info – G.W. allowed the Saudis to conduct a wholesale airlift of its citizens from the US. after 9/11 at the time all commercial travel in the country was stopped.
DP111 says
Ann Coulter was right. Just after 9/11 she advocated that we invade Islamic countries one by one, and convert them to Christianity.
The irony is that Muslims were expecting this to happen, as that is what a victorious Islam would do. They would have converted to Christianity in the droves, as that is what Islam itself would expect them to do.
Instead what we did was the opposite, We labelled a defeated ideology as the Religion of Peace, and spent tens of billions to make their lands habitable.
Totally useless. First change the mindset pf the Muslim by replacing it with a Christian mindset, then all else will follows.
Jack Gordon says
He is following the lead of the Cretin from Crawford, the Bush who helped Saudis escape shortly after 9/11. Trump came up short when he said the war on Iraq was based on an intentional lie about WMDs. He should have added that G W Bush was a bloody traitor who would have faced a firing squad in a more civilized period of our history. (I would throw the entire repulsive Bush family into the pokey for conspiracy connected with the Saudi enemy.)
Western Canadian says
There is quite reasonable indications that sadam DID have the weapons, and several indications that they were moved/buried…. So ALL the intelligence agencies, US, French, Israeli etc. were lying as well??
Don’t let the real world intrude on your ravening, foaming at the mouth bush hatred.
The Oracle says
Western Canadian
Oh yeah, they found leaking nerve gas canisters which almost poisoned the US soldiers who discovered them. The Iraqi’s used this type WMD on Iranian children soldiers during the Iraq-Iran War and on Kurds during the Gulf War. The US sided with Iraq during the Iranian engagement.
Then remember HW Bush promised the Kurds that if they rose up against Saddam he would have their back, well they were thoroughly gassed when they did.
Western nations look at nerve gas as a WMD but it’s standard munitions for fleabag Muslim nations.
The entire Bush family are All American money grubbing, Saudi ass kissers and true traitors. I hate them even more than Obama.
Think of the waste of American lives and treasure we threw away attacking the wrong nation. Because we didn’t finish the job, millions now die and suffer from ISIS (our go too guys). Add to that the destruction of the remains of ancient civilizations.
GW Bush lit the match to the USA’s slow death spiral.
gravenimage says
True, WC.
heidi says
you are so right, and trump will freeze their assets in a heartbeat– everyone else is paid off to not do a goddamn thing
Champ says
And obama bowed to this evil perp …
https://youtu.be/9WlqW6UCeaY
Descendantofacrusader says
Yes indeed: Obama curtsying
submissively before the evil Saudi king will (or should be) indefinitely burned into consciousness of anyone who loves and appreciates Judeo/Christian civilization.
Jerry says
WHEEL OF FORTUNE GAME SHOW:
ISL_MIC JIH_D IS THE LE_DING C_USE OF TERRORISM
Pat Sajak: Okay Obama, your turn.
Obama: Is there a “z”?
Sajak: Sorry no “z”
Three year old child: I’d like to solve the puzzle…
Mark Swan says
Good One Jerry…Made Me Laugh
PRCS says
Very funny!
Excellent.
gravenimage says
Yes–this is *sickening*. No American president need bow to any monarch–and that Obama chose to bow not to, say, Queen Elizabeth of Britain or King Felipe of Spain, but to the vicious Saudi king speaks volumes.
Custos Custodum says
In fairness, neither the Queen nor the Spanish king facilitated and paid for Barry’s secret training/education and recreational substances.
Also, as a 1980s Third Worldist communist, Barry doesn’t get a thrill from bowing to First World heads of state.
Christianblood says
Saudi Arabia is the head of the barbaric islamic dragon! It is the undisputed belly of the Evil islamic beast! It is the birthplace of the islamic death-cult! It is the most evil and the most barbaric nation on Earth! It is the actual kingdom of the Satan!
Wellington says
Meanwhile, Chritianblood, Putin supplies Iran with all kinds of advanced military technology. But not to worry, eh, since Russia, per your assessment, has merely a defensible strategic relationship with Iran while America is in league with the real Satan———Saudi Arabia.
I have to wonder if you ever wonder about how ridiculous your whitewashing of Russia is while asserting only the most nefarious motives to America and its allies. I highly doubt you do, so limited you are, but should such limitation (and tendentiousness) on your part have a pause, a miniscule of doubt, do reflect upon how those in Prague, Warsaw, Tallinn, Riga, Vilnius, Bratislava, Bucharest, and certainly many in Kiev and many other places in Eastern Europe, would agree with your take on Putin and Russia.
Never mind America and the West, Christianblood, which you demonize regularly, what say you about what Eastern Europe has to say about Russia under Putin? Or are you going to dodge yet again and bring up some fault about America or Western Europe WHILE STILL NOT ANSWERING THIS QUERY?
Yes, once and for all deal with how Poles, Czechs, Estonians, Latvians, et al. see Russia under Putin and why they see NATO and alliance with the West as something good while Russia sees the West and NATO as an enemy. Address this specific matter of Eastern Europe as I have presented it here and many times before, only to have you go on again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again (see how obnoxious repetition is?——-I hope you get at least this since you are master at it) about the glory of Mother Russia, the wonderfulness of Putin, the superiority of Orthodox Christianity over Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, blah, blah,, blah..
Your turn. I should advise you though that I expect nothing from you but the same old shit. Surprise me and make my day by finally showing at least a shred of objectivity. And don’t forget, start with how Eastern European nations aplenty see Russia under Putin. Yes, start with this.
Christianblood says
Wellington
this thread is about how the evil house of Saud is blackmailing America by selling hundreds of billions of US assets if the Saudis are held responsible for their role in 9/11. Wellington, we are not discussing Russia and Eastern Europe in this thread and it is surprising to me that you are complaining about Russia when the evil house of Saud who murdered 3000 of your citizens on a single day is again threatening that it will blackmail you country if its role on 9/11 attacks on your country is made clear. Don’t you realize that Saudi Arabia, the birth place of the islamic death cult will be hugely celebrating if America is destroyed?
Or do you think that Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Turkey and Qatar are America’s allies?
Angemon says
Oh, what a tangled web we weave/When first we practise to deceive! On one topic you blast the West and the US for… well, any and everything. Now you’re pretending to care for them.
“Wellington, we are not discussing Russia and Eastern Europe in this thread ”
We always are with you. That’s the whole subtext of your posts. The West sucks with their “freedoms” and “democracy” and “rule of law”. Authoritarian kleptocracy is the best! A muslim in the West said he wanted sharia law? Why, he’s just following the example set on by Westerners! The West is the whore of Babylon! ! A muslimah in Russia severs the head of a baby and parades it in the streets while saying she did it because of what Putin did? Your silence is deafening.
Christianblood says
Wellington
I believe the Iranian is a very dangerous and evil for its continued genocidal threats against Israel and no one should support them in their evil plans. Russia should pressure on Iran that the Iranian regime abandons its genocidal threats against Israel. Having said that, the Iranian people are good and civilized people who are far less anti-semitic, with far less jihadist mentality than their saudi, paki or sunni arab counter parts. Another point is that the only non-member of the former USSR Eastern European country that has suffered under the USSR policies is Poland. Ukraine also suffered hugely under Stalin and so are the Russian people themselves who lost millions of souls but both Russia and Ukraine were the backbone of the USSR regimes. It would be great if the Russian government improves its relations with its Eastern European brotherly countries and acknowledges the pain many of these countries had to bear during the USSR. The West should also acknowledge that Russia is different and they should step back from propagandizing the situation and pushing their extreme liberal policies which are truly mostly alien to the Russian psyche. Russia is a super power and the West needs to acknowledge and respect that because Russia cannot be pushed around by the US and the West forever Wellington.
Angemon says
Christianblood posted:
“Wellington
I believe the Iranian is a very dangerous and evil for its continued genocidal threats against Israel and no one should support them in their evil plans. Russia should pressure on Iran that the Iranian regime abandons its genocidal threats against Israel.”
And, of course, no criticism of Russia’s support of Iran. One would expect that someone who rants about the ties between the US and Saudi Arabia would rant twice as hard when his country has similar ties. Plus, no mention of the persecution of Christians in Iran. Again, one would expect that someone who routinely tries to shame Americans and Britons by accusing them of causing the deaths of Christians
in the Middle East would have at least one word of support for the plight if Christians in Iran. But not a peep about that – got to sell the idea that Iran has a “good islam” and, were it not for the threats against Israel, undistinguishable from first-world nations.
“Having said that, the Iranian people are good and civilized people who are far less anti-semitic, with far less jihadist mentality than their saudi, paki or sunni arab counter parts. ”
Yes, the people who routinely promise to wipe Israel off the map, actively seek a nuclear weapons program to achieve that goal, support groups who routinely try to kill Israelis and, according to you, are “very dangerous and evil for its continued genocidal threats against Israel” are “far less anti-semitic” that other muslim nations who don’t. Pull my other leg…
“Another point is that the only non-member of the former USSR Eastern European country that has suffered under the USSR policies is Poland.”
Wait for it – notice that CB only talks about the USSR, not about what’s happening nowadays.
“Ukraine also suffered hugely under Stalin and so are the Russian people themselves who lost millions of souls”
Try telling to an Ukrainian that Russians suffered as bad under Stalin as Ukrainians. I hope, for your sake, that you’re a fast runner…
“but both Russia and Ukraine were the backbone of the USSR regimes.”
Again, no mention of what’s going on nowadays. No mention of the war in Crimea. No criticism of Russia today. Blatantly disingenuous sophistry.
“It would be great if the Russian government improves its relations with its Eastern European brotherly countries”
Like Georgia or Ukraine?
“and acknowledges the pain many of these countries had to bear during the USSR.”
Again, blatantly disingenuous sophistry – trying to speak softly about how bad things during the time of the USSR but intentionally leaving out what Russia is doing nowadays.
“The West should also acknowledge that Russia is different and they should step back from propagandizing the situation and pushing their extreme liberal policies which are truly mostly alien to the Russian psyche.”
Russia is different. It’s even worse than during the USSR. And blaming the West for the rift is as saying the rape victim is to blame because she wore provocative clothes.
“Russia is a super power”
No, right now Russia is the neighbourhood bully who found his dad’s gun and thinks he can get away with anything by waving it around.
“and the West needs to acknowledge and respect that because Russia cannot be pushed around by the US and the West forever Wellington.”
It’s actually the other way around. The West shouldn’t, can’t, and won’t, be pushed around by a vulgar thug
.
Angemon says
“It would be great if the Russian government improves its relations with its Eastern European brotherly countries and acknowledges the pain many of these countries had to bear during the USSR.”
Curious how you worship a leader who said, and I quote:
Christianblood says
Wellington
You will like this:
http://sputniknews.com/russia/20160417/1038165142/miss-russia-winners-decade.html
Wellington says
Respecting your 12:05 P,M. post of the 17th, Christianblood, you were eminently correct. I did like it and thus we have no disagreement on, shall I say, this score.
Christianblood says
Wellington
Thanks dear Wellington. I like them too! And Russia is full of more beatiful girls than these and they are very feminine and know how to please a husband which they consider as a master, especially the Russian country girls are truly amazing!
Indioviejo says
The question is valid. Why don’t you answer it? The Russian’s prefer to be our mortal enemies, and we are getting close to a Nuclear War. We may be done, so will Russia and China, Iran, the Saudi’s and just maybe throw in the E.U. They have never liked us anyway. Nearer my God to thee, Amen.
Christianblood says
Angemon posted
(…It’s actually the other way around. The West shouldn’t, can’t, and won’t, be pushed around by a vulgar thug…)
Angemon you are truly misinformed and brainwashed by Western Russophobic propaganda and you can’t see the reality beyond this.
It is the US/Nato which has coupdetaed/overthrown the democratically elected government of Ukraine to push their hegemonic imperialist ambitions. It is the US/Nato who are aggressively pushing themselves towards Russian borders. The facts are obvious but you are obviously blinded by Western Russophobic propaganda and you won’t see the facts.
.
Angemon says
Christianblood posted:
“Angemon you are truly misinformed and brainwashed by Western Russophobic propaganda”
Ah, your go-to excuse. “The Western is Russophobic! Propaganda!”. You know what, moron? That doesn’t hold to scrutiny. The West was nothing if not generous towards a defeated foe – the USSR lost the Cold War, remember? There was nothing if not open arms towards the Eastern Europe, and especially Russia. Russia got much better terms that, for example, Germany after WWI. Russia was exceptionally allowed into the G7 despite not fulfilling the minimum requirements. And what did the West got in return? Because we did not engage in the barbaric take-over and bloodshed our opponents had in store for us, we were deemed weak. We were (figuratively) spat on and ridiculed by someone who is unwilling to give an inch even if that meant winning a mile. The phobia and propaganda come from the Kremlin and are aimed at the West, not the other way around. Take, for example, the FIFA corruption scandal. It’s no secret among European football lovers that FIFA has, to put it mildly, shady deals. It was just a matter of time until the house of cards tumbled down. Which it did. Putin? Why, it’s all a US conspiracy to make Russia look bad!
http://time.com/3898314/fifa-scandal-world-cup-russia-vladimir-putin/
Heck, you’re part of the network of trolls paid to spread anti-Western, pro-Russian propaganda:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-inside-russian-troll-house
“and you can’t see the reality beyond this.
It is the US/Nato which has coupdetaed/overthrown the democratically elected government of Ukraine”
Need I remind you of your fiasco? You gave me a link that allegedly proved that slanderous statement, and that link read that your claim is false.
“to push their hegemonic imperialist ambitions. It is the US/Nato who are aggressively pushing themselves towards Russian borders. The facts are obvious”
Yes, the facts are obvious. Former Warsaw Pact countries saw which wind was blowing from where and willingly joined NATO to protect themselves from Russian encroachment. Try asking Georgians, Poles, Hungarians, Slovaks, etc., what they feel about NATO – apparently, the people in those nations had no saying in the matter and have no agency of their own. Putin wasted no time churning out anti-Western propaganda, fabricating a foreign enemy and presenting himself as the only thing between Russia and a Western invasion (even though if a Western invasion were to happen, it would have taken place shortly after the fall of the wall, when Russia was at its weakest).
“but you are obviously blinded by Western Russophobic propaganda and you won’t see the facts.”
*yawn*
Again with the “Western Russophobic propaganda”? Goebbels would be proud – repeat a lie, etc.
Christianblood says
Angemon posted:
(…Because we did not engage in the barbaric take-over and bloodshed our opponents had in store for us…)
Angemon, review your recent history. The West just overthrew the democratically-elected president of Ukraine and replaced him with fascist street thugs bank-rolled by the US.
Angemon says
Christianblood posted:
“Angemon, review your recent history. The West just overthrew the democratically-elected president of Ukraine and replaced him with fascist street thugs bank-rolled by the US.”
A few remarks:
1 – The killing spree of Soviet Russians during the USSR era is more recent and larger in scale than the Armenian Genocide you gleefully and routinely talk about.
2 – Even if what you said were true, it doesn’t negate what I said: after the fall of the USSR the West did not engage in the barbaric take-over and bloodshed our opponents had in store for us, and we were deemed weak for it.
3 – Your narrative on Ukraine has been debunked several times. Including by you. In the post you’re selectively quoting from, I alluded to that:
“Need I remind you of your fiasco? You gave me a link that allegedly proved that slanderous statement, and that link read that your claim is false.”
In case you “forgot” about it, the link you provided to back your claim was this:
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/mar/19/facebook-posts/united-states-spent-5-billion-ukraine-anti-governm/
The headline reads “The United States spent $5 billion on Ukraine anti-government riots“. And even before the headline there’s the origin of this claim in a FB post. But notice that there’s a symbol saying “pants on fire”. Now read the article all the way through. The last paragraphs read:
When even the evidence you give to back your case says you’re wrong, it’s time to rethink what you ‘re saying. Of course you won’t. Because your job is to spread anti-Western propaganda.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-inside-russian-troll-house
The Oracle says
Angemon, I’d like to make some comments on your response to Christianblood in their order –
1) I have followed CB for years and I’ve never felt he speaks “gleefully” of the Armenian genocide, maybe a little distortion on your part?
2) Concerning the Soviet implosion. The West (USA) was extremely wise not to “barbarically take-over” the crumbling Soviet Union. Estimates range that from 80 – 90% of their nuke tipped ICBM’s were fully functional. You and I would be radioactive dust if we tried.
BTW – Rome and Byzantium had many ebbs and flows of strength and weakness, let’s hope when Russia comes back it will forgo the communism part.
3) Soviets starving Ukraine into submission. Stalin was as murderous as Hitler or the Young Turks. Has CB ever given praise too Stalin? My answer is no.
Getting back to topic, CB is spot on with his assessment of the House of Saud.
Peggy says
The fact that we are not discussing Russia here right now is of no concern to Wellington and Angemon. They WANT TO discuss Russia at every opportunity and keep bringing Russia in to all the discussions which mention USA’s good friends SA.
As soon as there is a spotlight on US allies they divert the spotlight to Russia.
Christianblood, I don’t agree with all you say but the attacks you get for your posts is shameful.
These people say they believe in democracy and free speech and then team up and hit you with all they have for having your say.
Not very civil.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“The fact that we are not discussing Russia here right now is of no concern to Wellington and Angemon. They WANT TO discuss Russia at every opportunity and keep bringing Russia in to all the discussions which mention USA’s good friends SA.”
Another lie from the crybully, Western-hating, Putin loving Peggy. I’ve told you before and I’ll tell you again: if you love Russia so much why don’t you move there?
“As soon as there is a spotlight on US allies they divert the spotlight to Russia.”
See above.And you say that, presumably with a straight face, even though both Wellington and I stated, on several occasions, that the US (and the West in general) should have no dealings with muslims countries, be it Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan or any of the other islamic hellholes. We say so because of an ideological stance. CB and you by proxy? You rant against Saudi Arabia while defending Iran. You’re, for all intents and purposes, enablers of a suicidal, terrorist sponsoring, genocidal, anti-semitic state that legitimises baby killers.
“Christianblood, I don’t agree with all you say”
She said, having not disagreed with CB.
“but the attacks you get for your posts is shameful.”
Two remarks:
1 – Valid criticism are “attacks” now?
2 – “Shameful”? Tsk tsk – appeal to emotions is a logical fallacy.
Of course, since you know exactly why Wellington and I said what we said – because the context of CB’s slander campaign against the West is to promote Russia – you offer no valid rebuttal, just appeal to emotion.
“These people say they believe in democracy and free speech and then team up and hit you with all they have for having your say.
Not very civil.”
Again with the crybullying? Which of us is trying to shut others down? It’s you. What, we’re not allowed to criticise Russia and paid Russian trolls if we believe in free speech? If anyone here doesn’t believe in free speech that would be you – remember how you came to me and said “you’re in the minority, so shut up”? You don’t like what we have to say? Too bad – free speech, Peggy, also includes we having our saying, not just others saying all manner of ludicrous nonsense.
Plus, I remember you distinctly saying that you were going to start ignoring what I said. You clearly aren’t.
gravenimage says
“Christianblood” wrote:
And Russia is full of more beatiful girls than these and they are very feminine and know how to please a husband which they consider as a master…
…………………..
Given quotes like this “Christianblood” would fit in just fine with Islam…
Timothius says
So Wellington, what’s your point? Weren’t you a bit harsh? My God man, get a grip
Best regards
Tim
Wellington says
My point, Timothius, is that Christianblood on numerous threads at JW has exculpated Putin and Russia ad nauseam for any relations with the Islamic world, and especially those with Iran, the single greatest sponsor of state terror in all the world, while time and time again excoriating America and the West for its relations with the Islamic world, never mind never addressing the profoundly deep suspicions that scores of Eastern Europeans have towards Russia under Putin, tending to prove the truth of George Kennan’s assessment that Russia looks upon its neighbors as vassals or enemies. For Christianblood, it’s America, the West and NATO bad and Russia good, good, good.
In short, Timothius, I despise hypocrisy and double standards. And never mind getting a grip. Just wake up.
Best regards,
Wellington
Christianblood says
Angemon posted
(…Iran is actually a worse place to be a Christian than Saudi Arabia – and Saudi Arabia…)
Angemon, I cant believe you said this! There are hundreds of Christians, other religious minorities and even Jews in Iran who openly practice their relgions in Iran but in Saudi Arabia practicing any religion other than sunni islam is punishable by death. Please do some independt research on this. In Saudi Arabia wearing a cross publicly and carying and a Bible publicly is punishable by death!
Angemon says
Christianblood posted:
“Angemon posted
(…Iran is actually a worse place to be a Christian than Saudi Arabia – and Saudi Arabia…)
Angemon, I cant believe you said this!”
I, however, can believe your (expected) fake outrage reaction. It’s not what “I say”, it’s what Christianity Today says:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/images/52588.jpg?h=1980&w=1440
Iran 7, Saudi Arabia 12
“There are hundreds of Christians, other religious minorities and even Jews in Iran who openly practice their relgions in Iran but in Saudi Arabia practicing any religion other than sunni islam is punishable by death. ”
And yet, Iran is an even worse place to be a Christian than Saudi Arabia.
“Please do some independt research on this.”
I did. Christian Today’s 2015 search says Iran is a worst place to be a Christian than Saudi Arabia.
“In Saudi Arabia wearing a cross publicly and carying and a Bible publicly is punishable by death!”
And yet, Iran is an even worse place to be a Christian than Saudi Arabia.
Christianblood says
Angemon
I did not say that (…Iran is actually a worse place to be a Christian than Saudi Arabia…)
Where did I say that?
Jay Boo says
another anti-Putin showdown, Wellington
Very thorough anti-Putin comments and Christianblood certainly asks for it. Quite a manifesto.
A little bit off topic though, but no harm done especially considering the article is about politics and not the horrendousness of FGM or rape gangs and such.
However, recently you did come down rather heavy on a commenter for making a slightly off topic religious based analogy of Islam to Satan and yet his/her comment was very short and very easy to overlook.
Very good comments though
Very eloquent as well.
Undaunted says
Yeah, what you said, Wellington.
Christianblood says
Had it not been genocidally antisemitic, the Iranian regime would have been a bull work against sunni salafi jihadism.
Angemon says
Christianblood posted:
“Had it not been genocidally antisemitic, the Iranian regime would have been a bull work against sunni salafi jihadism.”
WIth what, shia twelver jihadism? You realize that in addition to subscribbing to the overwhelming majority, if not all, of the nasty rules of “sunni salafi jihadism” (hatred of Jews, chopping of limbs, stoning of adulterers, killing of gays, oppression based on gender and religion, etc.), the Twelver sect believes that they can cause the return of the twelfth imam by starting a large scale nuclear war. That’s like saying “you know, if that rabid wolf trying to kill us wasn’t foaming from the mouth it would make a good guard dog against those other rabid wolves trying to kill us that aren’t foaming from the mouth”. Nowadays, Iran is actually a worse place to be a Christian than Saudi Arabia – and Saudi Arabia forbids Christians from practicing their faith openly.
gravenimage says
“Christianblood” wrote:
Had it not been genocidally antisemitic, the Iranian regime would have been a bull work against sunni salafi jihadism.
……………………..
Yeah–if it wasn’t for the small matter of its being a vicious Islamic theocracy governed by Shari’ah law, the the Islamic Republic of Iran would be a bulwark against vicious Islamic theocracies governed by Shari’ah law…
Yeah, except for that…
linnte says
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha! I adore you Graven! Hahahahaha!
gravenimage says
Thanks, linnte!
gravenimage says
Excellent posts, Wellington.
mortimer says
48% of Russia’s GNP consists of BRIBERY AND CORRUPTION. Russia is 136th country on the index of corruption…i.e. near the bottom of the class. Putin runs the world’s biggest kleptocracy. His conscience is seared with a hot iron. Putin has stolen the wealth and well-being of the Russian people and tricked them into thinking he’s a hero. He’s an execrable villain.
DFD says
To Gravenimage & Wellington, also to others
Re: “Christainblood” and his posts.
You got him right, but it’s worse than you think. Putin actually maintains hordes of posters to troll various websites. Here on ours the moniker (?) “Christianblood” seems to be appealing…
Have a look at the video below. Nothing to do with 9/11, it aims at demonizing western Europe with utterly vile (and unintentionally hilarious) hate propaganda. Of course, what’s stated about western Europeans is by extension true for Americans as well. It is quite funny, or stunning, to note that even Poles are brotherly people of the Russians, never mind that the Poles hate them. Same is true for the other eastern Europeans, all are being helped by Russia – the various uprisings against the Russians? What uprisings?
Have a look, and you will be able to accurately predict “Christian” (?) blood’s replies in reference to *any* post.
Christianbloods posting begs questions: How come Moscow is the Muslim capital of Europe? How come Putin permits sharia in Chechnia? Et cetera est.
Russia a superpower? Most of its roads are still mud. It doesn’t have 147 million Russian inhabitants, as touted. About 90 million Russians, and their birth rate is lower than that of the western Europeans. So where do the 57 million come from, Christianblood? Try the *stans. Christians? Well, they certainly have Christian blood on their hands.
Have a look at the propaganda effort of which “Christianblood” is part of… It may explain why I don’t converse with this character.
Regards All
https://youtu.be/5BiGGjvF1b4
Angemon says
DFD posted:
“To Gravenimage & Wellington, also to others
Re: “Christainblood” and his posts.
You got him right, but it’s worse than you think. Putin actually maintains hordes of posters to troll various websites. Here on ours the moniker (?) “Christianblood” seems to be appealing…”
Indeed. I have raised awareness of that several times:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-inside-russian-troll-house
http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/documents-show-how-russias-troll-army-hit-america#.oko4P85Wn
mortimer says
DFD wrote: “Have a look at the propaganda effort of which “Christianblood” is part of”
Yikes! Lieutenant Colonel Putin (ret’d KGB) is certainly a likely person to order and command such disinformation propaganda.
Soloview says
DFD: People who do not know the world, its regions and cultures are often misled about ideas and ideologies. The video shows Russian Pan-Slavic propaganda (somewhat grotesquely extended to “Thracia”, which includes the Baltics and Hungary. In reality,these folkloristic tripes and antisemitism is as much “Russian” or “Putin” propaganda, as “KKK” is American propaganda. Pan-Slavism is a cultural ideology which started in 19th century, in response to the rise of European nationalist cultural vogue. It all but died with the tsar and his family, and though some echoes of it are still heard in Russia’s mainstream, noone with any brain (least of all Putin’s circle) would subscribe to this fringe revival of Russian version of hyper-racist chauvinism. Noone in Eastern Europe likes or trusts the Russians (except perhaps the Serbs). If some Eastern European politicians are chummier to Putin than to Merkel, Hollande or Cameron, its only because they and their people hate the politically correct mantras from which Post-Soviet Russia liberated itself and mistrust the leftist ideologies way more than the demonized Russian strongman,
Christianblood says
DFD
You got wrong my friend. I am just simple guy appalled at the US/Western islamo-phylic and Russophobic arrogance!
Christianblood says
DFD
Please refresh yourself with this video clip below:
gravenimage says
Well, DFD, that video is equal parts appalling and unintentionally hilarious! Of course, I don’t think all Russian apologists are quite *this* unhinged.
It is openly virulently antisemitic, and appears to believe that the only factor in a region’s wealth is natural resources. Were this true, of course, Zimbabwe would be one of the world’s richest countries, instead of an economic basket case.
While it is by no means the ugliest slur, the idea that Western Europe has no art has to be one of the most ludicrous ones.
More than anything, they seem terrified that Eastern European nations will continue to embrace freedom and democracy, as indeed most of them have since the fall of the Iron Curtain.
gravenimage says
Christianblood, how is this video a “false flag”?
Many here–including myself–have commented on the fact that while Reagan fully comprehended the threat of Communism, that he was rather blind to the threat of Islam.
But other than plane hijackings, suicide bombings in Israel, and the rise of the Islamic Republic of Iran–this last the danger of which you still like to downplay–few people *anywhere* in Dar-al-Harb had much of a conception of the Jihad threat thirty years ago.
This is certainly true in the Soviet Union as much as in the West.
As for Saudi Arabia, the Soviet Union was the first to establish full diplomatic relations with the Kingdom of Hejaz and Nejd, which was the predecessor of the current Saudi State.
And, except for strains over Syria, Russia is quite close to the Saudis today. Unfortunately, both Russia and the West have made the unbelievable error of considering this hideous Shari’ah state some sort of ally.
Angemon says
Well said, Wellington!
Miao Zedong says
Again ? There is no Putin in his comment. Seems to be your obsession. Personally, I’d like to see Putin nuke Saudi Arabia out of existence but Iran will that probably do that themselves with the “little” help of your musilm president.
Christianblood says
Miao Zedong posted
(…There is no Putin in his comment. Seems to be your obsession. Personally, I’d like to see Putin nuke Saudi Arabia out of existence…)
Agreed. So True Miao Zedong!
Wellington says
DFD: Thanks for the video. I watched the entire 15 minutes and 52 seconds of it.
My God, where to begin? The video (I wonder who financed this) is indeed crude and unintentionally hilarious many times. It reeks of anti-Semitism and mindless non-appreciation of Western European culture, examples being the glory or Romanesque and Gothic architecture, Western medieval literary masterpieces like Beowulf, Dante’s Divine Comedy and Chaucer’s Canterbury Tales, the glory of illuminated medieval manuscripts from Ireland to Italy, the magnificence of the Italian Renaissance, the creation of Baroque art, the development of the scientific method, the 18th Enlightenment, the slow but inexorable progress of liberty in countries like England, The Netherlands and Switzerland, the extraordinary literary heritage of modern Western Europe, including producing the greatest writer who ever lived in any language, Shakespeare, the development of extraordinary advances in medicine (the Scots alone made great strides here) and technology in general, and on and on and on.
I highly recommend the watching of this video, especially to gravenimage and Angemon. Besides, it is a hoot many times, though ominous and full of real hate and conveniently too not mentioning all the slaughters carried out in Eastern Europe, especially by the Russians. BTW, being half Polish I am fully aware of what the Poles think of the Russians. My mother is fluent in Polish, I know a little bit, and I remember when I was a boy and bad, which was often, just about the worst thing my mother or her sisters (my aunts) could say to me was, “You’re as bad as a Russian.” Again, thanks for this video, DFD. Much appreciated.
Wellington says
That’s “glory of” and not “glory or” as well as “the 18th Century Enlightenment” and not “the 18th Enlightenment.”
Angemon says
I’ve seen it, Wellington. It seems to be made by the Eastern Europe equivalent of stormfags (stormfags being the derogatory term used to describe the losers that hang around in stormfront). I actually chuckled at the part where they talk about sending the Gypsies to Western Europe, the Gypsies being the descendants of a group of people who came from India in a mass migration and/or as slaves. They’re all for the union of all Eastern people, but not including people from Eastern of the Eastern people – you know, the “brown people”. You already covered the cultural part, so I’m just going to add a couple of remarks. The first being that Constantinople must have had several Midas working overtime for centuries turning lead and dirt into gold, because it seems that the wealth of Constantinople, sacked by rebellious Crusaders in 1204 (a couple of decades after the Byzantines massacred their Roman Catholic population) was more than enough to fuel Western Europe until the 21st century – makes you wonder it didn’t do the same for the Turks. Constantinople being the capital of the Eastern Roman Empire. The Eastern Roman Empire being one of the two halves of the Roman Empire. Which started in Rome, Italy, Eastern Europe. The second being the alleged unwillingness of Western Europeans to aid Eastern Europeans to fight against muslims. Do those people know how long it would take Western Europeans to go there? By land? “Help us, we’re being attacked, we need help ASAP” “On it, going as fast as possible, be there in 2 or 3 years”. Plus, Western Europeans had their hands full in the Mediterranean Sea and, later on, in Africa, India, the Indian Ocean and the Pacific Ocean. They held their own and later on turned the tide – Italians and the Papal States helped to keep the Mediterranean from being overrun, the Portuguese started exploring the coast of Africa and eventually fought muslim fleets in the Indian Ocean and Arabian Sea while the Spaniards kept muslims in check in the Pacific Ocean, with the Dutch and British eventually taking (mostly by force) their mantle. What’s that? Eastern Europeans didn’t have to face legions of muslims from all over the muslim world, from Northern Africa to Indonesia and Arabia? You’re welcome. Oh, and the abolition of jizyia in the Ottoman Empire? Again, you’re welcome.
Mark Swan says
Wellington …your critique is a good one and as usual thorough…it gives perspective.
Graven image, Mortimer, and You are among my favorite commenters here and I agree
Shakespeare wrote some stuff…the language barrier between His time and mine is it for
Me…I think the best writing I have read from an Englishman is Charles Dickens’
A Child’s History of England.
You can read the book here for free.
http://americanliterature.com/author/charles-dickens/book/a-childs-history-of-england/summary
Wellington says
Thank you, Mark Swan, for your reply. Special thanks for that link to Dickens’ Child History of England, respecting which I don’t have a copy though I do of most of Dickens’ other works, my two favorite being Great Expectations and David Copperfield.
Dickens was a master of the English tongue, of that there can be no doubt. I also especially relish his A Christmas Carrol. I would add here that the 1951 film version of it is, I think, a masterpiece, with Alistair Sim in the lead role as Scrooge giving a performance which is simply superb.
Wellington says
The only thing I would like to add to your fine narration, Angemon, is something I recalled from the text book I used in a course on the Byzantine Empire I took as an undergraduate history major. The text book, which I still have in my library, is George Ostrogorsky’s History of the Byzantine State, to this day still considered a classic work.
In this work, towards the end when impending doom was awaiting the Byzantines in the 1440s and early 1450s, Ostrogorsky mentions that the last Byzantine Emperor, Constantine XI (1449-1453), was indeed still seeking help from the West but “The Byzantine populace was furiously indignant (due to a Catholic cardinal from Rome celebrating Mass in Constantinople), for the more desperate their need the more tenaciously they clung to their faith and resented passionately this violation of their religious feelings. Their mood of despair and their irreconciliable hatred of the Latins was expressed at the time in the trenchant words of one of the Emperor’s highest officials——‘I would rather see the Muslim turban in the midst of the city than the Latin mitre.'” p. 568
Instructive, no, of how Orthodox hatred of the West was (and is still) carried to a point of self-destruction? Yes, it goes back a long, long way. There is of course no defense for what happened in the Fourth Crusade but to prefer Muslims over fellow Christians is evidence of a failing so woeful that words are hard to come by to express such stupidity.
Angemon says
Some things have a strange way to live on – not that long ago, Putin stated that Orthodox Christianity was closer to islam than it was to Catholic Christianity.
Mark Swan says
Reply To: Wellington says April 17, 2016 at 6:11 pm
Great I am Happy You opened that link, you can read any of the classics there and
it is free and a secure sight…I agree on the two books and the movie You mentioned
…You should enjoy A Child’s History of England…I have never read anything like it.
Take Care Wellington.
DFD says
Wellington says: “DFD: Thanks for the video. I watched the entire 15 minutes and 52 seconds of it…. (I wonder who financed this) is indeed crude….”
Simple, I believe. Who has easy access to lots of money in eastern Europe, with hardly any public control? I think we know, don’t we 🙂
gravenimage says
Thank you, Wellington–I did watch DFD’s linked video and commented, above.
When you cut through all the ugliness and the profound silliness–such as trying to convince us that Eastern European folk costumes are more attractive than those of Western Europe, as if much of anyone anywhere in Europe wears such costumes except for festivals–is *this*: that Russia wants to recreate its oppressive stranglehold over all of Eastern Europe, recreating the conditions of the Iron Curtain.
Luckily, they would have few takers. Eastern Europeans for the most part remember all too well what that was like–and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as an all-too-nasty cautionary tale.
gravenimage says
Mark, thank you for the link to Dickens’ “A Child’s History of England”. His writing for children is engaging and never condescending.
I am a great admirer of his work. I have a signature of his that my husband gave me, knowing how I love his books.
Though it is not unusual, like Wellington, my favorite book of his is David Copperfield. I first read it in battered library paperback form while living on the street as a teenager, and was struck by how this book written over a hundred years earlier could have such great personal meaning for me. I have read it four or five times since.
And thank you for the compliment, Mark–I always look for your posts, as well!
Wellington wrote:
Thank you, Mark Swan, for your reply. Special thanks for that link to Dickens’ Child History of England, respecting which I don’t have a copy though I do of most of Dickens’ other works, my two favorite being Great Expectations and David Copperfield.
………………………….
Same with me, Wellington. Little Dorrit is another favorite of mine. The 1988 film with Derek Jacobi is eccentric but quite marvelous.
More:
Dickens was a master of the English tongue, of that there can be no doubt. I also especially relish his A Christmas Carrol. I would add here that the 1951 film version of it is, I think, a masterpiece, with Alistair Sim in the lead role as Scrooge giving a performance which is simply superb.
………………………….
Yes–still by far the best of the films, although I have come to appreciate aspects of other performances, ranging from silent adaptations and including the oddly little-known portrayal by Patrick Stewart.
It is very difficult role, because the actor has to be able to project misanthropy, humor, sadness, regret, terror, and then the rueful and joyous reformed Scrooge. Sim is one of the very few who manages to capture all the varied aspects of the character in his performance.
He has to be portrayed as a genuinely egregious human being, and yet one who is still sympathetic and capable of reform.
It did not occur to me when I read it as a child, but it is one of the only stories where the hero and the villain of the piece are one and the same. As a writer now, it strikes me how original this was–and how incredibly difficult to do,
More, in reply to Angemon:
In this work, towards the end when impending doom was awaiting the Byzantines in the 1440s and early 1450s, Ostrogorsky mentions that the last Byzantine Emperor, Constantine XI (1449-1453), was indeed still seeking help from the West but “The Byzantine populace was furiously indignant (due to a Catholic cardinal from Rome celebrating Mass in Constantinople), for the more desperate their need the more tenaciously they clung to their faith and resented passionately this violation of their religious feelings. Their mood of despair and their irreconciliable hatred of the Latins was expressed at the time in the trenchant words of one of the Emperor’s highest officials——‘I would rather see the Muslim turban in the midst of the city than the Latin mitre.’”
………………………….
Yes–both the Byzantines and the West fell far short during this terrible crisis. There were brave individual Westerners who fought for Constantinople, but the absence of supporting Western forces in general–not to mention the shameful episode of the Fourth Crusade, which besides being appalling in and of itself likely weakened Byzantium–virtually guaranteed Constantinople’s fall to the Muslim hordes.
I just *hope* history is not repeating itself now–this is why I am so disturbed when some Anti-Jihadists cavalierly talk about abandoning Europe or some other part of Dar-al-Harb to the Muslim invaders.
I *do not* want to see history repeat itself here.
More:
Some things have a strange way to live on – not that long ago, Putin stated that Orthodox Christianity was closer to islam than it was to Catholic Christianity.
………………………….
Yes–that deeply disturbing story is here:
“Window on Eurasia: Putin Says Orthodoxy ‘Closer to Islam than Catholicism Is’”
http://windowoneurasia.blogspot.com/2010/12/window-on-eurasia-putin-says-orthodoxy.html
Wonderful comments from Mark Swan, Wellington, Angemon, and DFD on a wide variety of subjects.
This is why, grim as our reason for being at Jihad Watch is, reading and corresponding here is nonetheless often a pleasure.
The Oracle says
Wellington, I sure the citizens of Byzantium knew it was only a matter of time before the Ottoman Turks would finally sack their Capital. Why bow to a Pope now and give the most important thing in their life, their faith, to a people who sacked and pillaged their beautiful city 250 years before? To be fair there was a contingent of soldiers from Genoa who fought along side the Greeks and they fought with exceptional bravery. However, I personally believe that even if aid came from the West it was truly to late for rescue and revival.
The carnage caused by the Crusaders was comparable to the later sacking of the city by the Muslim Ottomans. Most of that plunder went to Rome and the Latins divided the Empire into their own spheres of influence, it took the Greeks 60 years to finally drive them out from their now diminished nation.
Angemon makes light of the 4th crusaders pillage, mocking the total plunder that was now in the hands of west Europeans and especially the Latin powers. In essence, besides looting tons of gold and silver they stole art, sculptures, Holy relics, Christian slaves, books and manuscripts, even the lead roof panels from Orthodox churches. So yes, it did infuse the West with wealth unimaginable at the time.
Most men in the ruined city were murdered, women and children were raped, the city proper was almost burned to the ground.
When Ottoman Sultan Mehmed II entered fallen Constantinople in 1453 it had next to nothing in wealth or population as compared to its sacking by the Crusaders 250 years before.
Wellington says
Christianblood: Respecting your 6:15 P.M. post of today, April 17th, I’m sorry to say that you once again revealed too much, to wit, your statement that Russian women consider their husband as a “master.”
Frankly, no matter how beautiful a woman is, I don’t think she should ever consider her husband as a “master.” I am, quite fortunately, married to an extremely beautiful woman who is more than twenty years younger than I am (if you saw photos of her you would have no doubt of this), but never have I considered myself her “master.” No, rather she is my equal, no master nonsense involved whatsoever. In fact, were a woman to consider me her master, I might (before I was married) have “spent some time with her” but equally I would have never considered marrying her. You know, not only is physical beauty very sexy but so is intelligence and will. When a woman has intelligence and will as well as physical beauty, all of which my wife has, I deem this optimal. I don’t think you “get” this but you should.
Christianblood says
Wellington posted
(…rankly, no matter how beautiful a woman is, I don’t think she should ever consider her husband as a “master.” I am, quite fortunately, married to an extremely beautiful woman who is more than twenty years younger than I am (if you saw photos of her you would have no doubt of this), but never have I considered myself her master…)
I don’t disagree in your statement above Wellington. I could have chosen different words. I meant to say good traditional women who respect their husbands. I think there is cultural differences between us here Wellington.
Wellington says
I have a “good traditional woman,” Christianblood, who respects me as I do her. We’re equals, neither feels or is superior to the other.
Correct me if I’m wrong but my impression of Russian women over the years is that they are tough, resourceful and don’t take any crap off of men. Indeed, it is one of several things I admire about the Russians, others being their overall courage and their great intellectual and artistic traditions, though I would add that the Russians are abysmal on the matter of freedom and really do have to work on that “xenophobia thing.”
Christianblood says
Wellington posted
(…Correct me if I’m wrong but my impression of Russian women over the years is that they are tough, resourceful and don’t take any crap off of men. Indeed, it is one of several things I admire about the Russians, others being their overall courage and their great intellectual and artistic traditions…)
You are correct Wellington. Professional, educated women in the big cities are that way. I prefer the no-nonsense country ladies who are also tough, very beautiful and very, very resourceful.
Wellington says
Angemon: With you again on all your comments. Thank you for having the incisive and informed intellect which you most certainly do.
Peggy says
Wellington, he didn’t even mention Russia so why are you?
Are you looking for an argument? It seems you have jumped on him for no reason at all. He only mentioned how SA is evil and the next thing you are going in all sort of direction.
Champ says
Saudi Arabia is the head of the barbaric islamic dragon! It is the undisputed belly of the Evil islamic beast! It is the birthplace of the islamic death-cult! It is the most evil and the most barbaric nation on Earth! It is the actual kingdom of the Satan!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Right you are, Christianblood!
Christianblood says
Champ
Thanks Champ! Keep it up!
DFD says
Champ says: “Saudi Arabia is the head of the barbaric islamic dragon! It is the undisputed belly of the Evil islamic beast! It is the birthplace of the islamic death-cult! It is the most evil and the most barbaric nation on Earth! It is the actual kingdom of the Satan!”
Agreed by and large. But, with all due respect, I believe you’re forgetting… What are they called? “Death to so+so, such ‘n such…!” Oh yeah, IRAN!
To use your words: It is the actual ‘republic’ of the Satan! Further: “….most evil and the most barbaric nation on Earth…” I think I ran is certainly giving them a run for their money.
Keep up the good posts.
DFD says
should have come out as … I think IRAN is certainly giving them a run for their money.
Sorry, typo
Champ says
DFD, you make a good point. Indeed, IRAN just might be in 1st place!
Take care.
The Oracle says
Wellington and Angemon, this is Jihadwatch not Putinwatch.
Get a grip and stay focused on your future masters.
I don’t recall Putin ever bowing to a Saudi King or Iranian mullah.
Jay Boo says
You do bring up a legitimate point.
Peggy says
Has anyone noticed that Christianblood only said that SA is the most evil country. For that he received so many angry replies about how Russia is bad and he supports Russia blah blah blah. Christianblood didn’t even mention Russia at all but I have noticed that Angemon especially, hates him so much that he is more than happy to jump in and start arguments with him even on subjects not mentioned.
Then the team comes in all attacking him for something he didn’t even say at the time.
Has anyone else noticed just how unstable some people are on this site?
They can’t ever pass up an opportunity to attack.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“Has anyone noticed that Christianblood only said that SA is the most evil country.”
Oh, c’mon, Peggy, you can’t be that blind. But dishonest? Yeah, you’re that dishonest. CB said much more than that by now, and you’re going to have to try ahrder to whitewahs it.
“For that he received so many angry replies about how Russia is bad and he supports Russia blah blah blah.”
What a gross mischaracterization of what’s going o so far.
“Christianblood didn’t even mention Russia at all”
Again, that’s the whole context of his posts. West bad, Russia good. He’s made it abundantly clear by now. You might as well be saying “well, that guy is the head of the KKK, and he’s saying that he hates Obama, but he didn’t say that its because of the colour of his skin, so you shouldn’t call him racist”.
“but I have noticed that Angemon especially, hates him so much”
Nope. More crybullying and personal attacks from the crybully that often resorts to personal attacks.
“that he is more than happy to jump in and start arguments with him even on subjects not mentioned.”
See the metaphor above.
“Then the team comes in all attacking him for something he didn’t even say at the time.”
That part is right – there is a team out there to attack people who say certain things. If you criticize Putin, Russia, Iran or paid Russian trolls, expect to be attacked by the pro-Puting browshirts.
“Has anyone else noticed just how unstable some people are on this site?”
Yes. You and CB, for example. Although. CB is a paid Russian troll, so just you. Oh, and the usual muslim apologists.
“They can’t ever pass up an opportunity to attack.”
Projection, thy name is Peggy! You couldn’t resist a chance to attack me, despite having said you were going to ignore my posts.
Angemon says
The Oracle/Avenger posted:
“Wellington and Angemon, this is Jihadwatch not Putinwatch.”
Nor is this Westernwatch or NATOwatch, but that never stopped you, did it? In any case, and as I’ve detailed explained before, the goal of CB and the rest of his gang is to deride the West and spread anti-Western propaganda in the hopes of making Russia and Putin look better by comparison. Meaning that they have their work cut out for the next century or five…
“Get a grip and stay focused on your future masters.”
But you just chided us for speaking about Putin!
DFD says
Angemon says RE Oracle/Avenger: “…“Get a grip and stay focused on your future masters.” ….But you just chided us for speaking about Putin!”
Brilliant.
The Oracle says
@Angemon
I believe Christianblood is one very pissed off Serb. I think he really despises the West for bombing Serbia and I agree with him. At the time, Clinton, McCain, Notbright, Dole and Brzezinski all wanted Serbia leveled for political and not humanitarian reasons.
Saudi and Turk money at work?
Angemon says
The Oracle posted:
“@Angemon
I believe Christianblood is one very pissed off Serb. ”
You can “believe” whatever you want. I’m going to take his insane ramblings and spreading of anti-Western, pro-Russian propaganda, plus first-hand experience on other sites, as evidence he’s a paid Russian troll:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-inside-russian-troll-house
DFD says
The Oracle says: “…I don’t recall Putin ever bowing to a Saudi King or Iranian mullah.”
A) Indeed, but the way he sits with the rulers of Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, etc. is rather revealing.
B) And his arming the Iranians, selling protective missiles (highly advanced S 400) and selling nuclear goodies….
C) He is tough on the Muslims and takes no bull from them? Have a look, in graphic detail (strong stomach required): https://youtu.be/DEI_tY4TQZs
D) Putin’s response to the beheadings? Chechnia got sharia law. He seems to go on extremely well with their ruler. And if we can see in detail, so can he.
Put a,b, c and d together, and one doesn’t have to go to Delphi to reach an appropriate conclusion.
Sorry Pal, but what you say is somewhat lacking. I think it’s worth watching Putin in reference to the mullahs – just like Obama, Merkel & Co.
The Oracle says
DFD –
a) the photo of Putin with the three Muz rulers had Putin sitting equally and conversing, no sign of being humbled or submissive. Each Stan ruler was wearing their nations garb, Putin was in suit and tie, looking fine. The muzzies were wearing hats that looked like stuffed rats.
b) I’m sure as allies, Russia is selling to Iran their state of the art weaponry, just as the US and EU sells theirs to Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Pakistan, Qatar and Egypt. I also think Russia will not let Iran get to nuclear weapon status because it will force the Sauds to do the same. The world doesn’t need any more nuclear weapons in the hands of Muslims. Letting Pakistan go nuclear was a real misstep in US foreign policy.
c) this video clip I watched many months ago, it is of Chechen separatists overwhelming a Dagestan border station manned by Russian soldiers. This is a Muslim jihadi invasion of Dagestan and the beginning of the second Checnya war. Dagestan security forces and Russian paramilitary promptly routed and exterminated the vermin in country then the Russian army invaded Checnya leveling Grozny and destroying most of the rebel rebellion.
In two years Checnya was pacified and the remaining rebels that had escaped were hunted down and killed. I watched this video only one time, it made my blood boil.
Bask says
it is time that the West pass to action and to end the fanatical cult of Islam. Regardless Islam must be destroyed
ploome says
and the Bush family was in their bed
Ginger says
Okay. The US government can then close down all the Saudi-funded mosques, which will be most of them, ban all Saudi-funded ‘educational’ material, sequestrate all Saudi-owned real estate and ban all selling of military hardware. In an ideal world.
ploome says
over 100,000 Saudi students in USA…paying money our stinking universities say they need
heh
they will soon be whining
Mark Swan says
Oil provides more than 70 percent of Saudi government revenue. And though the Saudis still have about $630 billion in financial reserves, they are spending them at a rate of $5 billion to $6 billion a month, according to Rachel Ziemba, an analyst at Roubini Global Economics in New York.
They have a huge competitive oil market that will not weaken in their favor.
If We call their bluff, and they try to sell $750 billion in Treasury securities and other American financial assets on the world market they may have to try to get a premium price or lose money on that.
They are heading for a recession nationally and face cutting a lot of benefits that presently appease potential opponents in their own populace.
The Saudis have been shopping in the Russian Market for Military Hardware and likely will find they can buy more quantity wise but less quality wise.
Egypt has been shopping in Russia already.
Saudi Arabia and Egypt want to build a massive bridge over the Red Sea, connecting their two countries. Saudi Arabia regards Egypt as a crucial partner in efforts to build a bloc of friendly Sunni Muslim states as a bulwark against growing regional influence of Shia-led Iran. Saudi King Salmon and Egyptian President Sisi agreed that this historic step could ultimately connect the continents of Asia and Africa. It will increase trade between the two continents to unprecedented levels. The bridge follows last year’s announcement from Egypt to build a new capital to the east of the present one, Cairo… The announcement was made at an investment conference that aims to revive the Egyptian economy. At that time Egypt’s housing minister stated “We are talking about a world capital. Since President Sisi took office, the Egypt-Saudi Arabia alliance has strengthened. The projects in the works will strengthen the regional power of Egypt and Saudi Arabia. A Caliphate does seem to be more possible with this cooperation.
Russia is to beef up its military forces all the way from its western border to the Pacific islands amid ongoing strains with the West. As part of a response…new units… including two new divisions, will be formed. The military forces in western Russia will receive 1,100 new weapons systems, including warplanes, helicopters, tanks and other armored vehicles.
Russia also is delivering S-300 surface-to-air missiles to Iran.
The world appears to be dividing into three power blocs with the US, Britain, and a number of other English speaking nations and Israel moving to the periphery.
The Arab bloc has Egypt and Saudi Arabia in the lead, with the other Sunni countries.
A more streamlined European bloc has Germany at the center.
The eastern bloc includes Russia, a number of Asian nations including China, and possibly Iran.
There is no good reason the American Public cannot read the full 9/11 report.
The World is entitled to read the full report…now.
But there does seem to be real reason for concern from Saudi Arabia about this.
DKnight593 says
I wish we could. You could at least start by banning them on college campuses. Then block most Muslims from coming to US for any reason. The big problem now is with them on the campuses trying to indoctrinate our youth.
Of course they spout discrimination. We need to be firm on this matter.
dumbledoresarmy says
Yep. Call their bluff.
And actually, this should be done *first*.
if the US were to ACT like the strong horse that it actually is – even now – if it gets its head right, the mohammedan mob will buckle.
Georg says
We, the people, must pressure our politicians to do the right thing. This could go a long, long way not just here but in Europe and across the world to show KSA for what it is and stop the funding of their expansionism through Wahabbist hijra, illicit so-called charities, and other Saudi entryism. It’s time for reckoning.
gravenimage says
Absolutely–call their bluff, and let the chips fall where they may.
The very fact that they are threatening the US for daring to mention 9/11 is all too telling.
Jerry says
The American people have a right to know the truth. Obama and his lackeys have no right to deprive us the truth about a national calamity of this scale, 9/11. And the suggestion that a release could risk national security is one of those political fake-outs we can all see. Had the truth been revealed before 9/11 it could have saved 3000 lives, it’s hard for me to accept that same information now puts us in danger.
We have a right to know who our enemies are. And if the Saudi government is aiding and abetting terrorists then that’s a truth the whole world needs to hear. If it’s false the Saudis can refute it, if it’s true then let them own it. Any government that mass murders the people of another nation has no moral or legal vantage from which to bargain. They will have perpetrated an act of war. We shall dictate the terms of cooperation, not the killers. And we should do that collectively as a nation in the light of day, for truth, for honor, and out of respect for the murdered dead.
Carolyne says
While the Iranian people are oppressed by their government, it is as nothing compared to the citizens of Saudi Arabia. Every Friday night there are beheadings, floggings and stoning to death of hapless people who have committed what would be to us not even an infraction. Criticizing Islam, a woman out without a male relative or showing a tiny flash of flesh, women who have been raped, etc. etc. etc. On a scale of one to ten of barbarism, Saudi deserves a ten. It is the most cruel, oppressive and xenophobic country in the world and we should have no truck with it. Freeze their assets in the US prior to voting to release the evidence of their complicity in 9/11.
Saudi money is not only going to buy our institutes of higher learning, but building seditious mosques and buying our politicians. Its time to stop it. ‘Way past time.
Jerry says
You couldn’t have said it better.
Mark Swan says
Yes She is right…I wish we had the National will to act in so many ways that are
critical to reigning in all the nonsense. It just does not have to be this way.
gravenimage says
Yes–pretending these barbarians are our allies is repulsive.
High Treason says
This is why the Keystone oil pipeline is needed. If the US does not need Saudi oil, then the Saudis will revert to the pre-oil era-camel herding. An end to the reliance on Saudi oil will also reduce the spread of Islam through the insidious corrupting actions of the Saudi regime.
To me, the threats are an admission that they have something to hide. Bring it on. Obama will of course cave in because he is well and truly an Islamic sympathizer.
linnte says
Mr./Mrs. Treason, the sole purpose of the KXL pipeline is to benefit Canada where the shale oil will be transported accross American soil (operative word here is soil) to ship yards in the Gulf of Mexico, and then be shipped to China and other Asian countries. Absolutely NONE of that shale oil will benefit the USA. All along that pipeline for a few acres on each side of it’s 3thousand miles, Canada will have eminent domain. With the Islamic migration in Canada being a huge risk, that pipeline will probably give jobs to Muslims who will, because they CAN, infiltrate our borders easily.
The total number of American jobs the pipeline will create is appx 3000 TEMPORARY jobs, and when being finished they will be back in the unemployment lines. A shale oil spill in the area of Nebraska would poision the four state sized aquafir that has watered the breadbasket of America for a century.
There is nothing good about Canada’s flagrant disregard of the American people by even suggesting this pipeline. A spill is guaranteed to happen. I saw first hand what an oil spill looks like while in Arkansas. Acres of destroyed wetlands!
If Saudi oil goes away, China is not going to share their processed toxic shale oil with America, and neither is Canada.
Concerned Citizen says
Hey linnte! I live in Arkansas! Where did you live?
linnte says
Mountain Home. I am back in Oregon now, but plan on visiting my son and his family for a couple months this summer. The roads in AR make me absolutely crazy! Hahahaha! And the spiders and ticks and chiggers and the mosquitoes and the tornados! Hahahahaha!
CogitoErgoSum says
If they had nothing to do with the 9/11 terrorists, why should they be worried? In fact, they should welcome any and all opportunities to shine the light of truth on the matter.
Dude says
Yup.
Descendantofacrusader says
Like a piglet feeding on a sow’s tit, is it not time the U.S. weened itself from the great Saudi mother pig?
Wellington says
Call these bastards’ bluff. They surely deserve it, though the number of American politicians with the guts and knowledge enough to do so are, sadly, about as scarce as hen’s teeth.
As for the “responsibility issue” where 9/11 is concerned, there are varying degrees of culpability to be sure. But certainly what can’t be exculpated, what shouldn’t be exculpated, what only an ignoramus or liar would exculpate respecting what happened on 9/11, is Islam——all of this decrepit and despicable religion.
If no Islam, then no 9/11. If no Islam, then no some 28,000 Islamic terrorist attacks worldwide just since 9/11. This is the bottom line of bottom lines. One knows this or should know it. So many still don’t, for whatever stupid or indefensible reason. And thus much more death and maiming is in store, never mind economic repercussions, because of the curse to all mankind which is Islam and the continued willful ignorance of Islam.
Mad world. Pathetic world. Continue to count on this sad and tragic fact but defy sadness and tragedy by enjoying life as much as possible————-in spite of Islam and excuse making for Islam, whether by clueless Muslims or clueless dhimmis. Yes, enjoying the wonder which is life while fools aplenty continue to make excuses for the spiritual fascism which is Islam functions as a rebuke not only to Islam but to foolishness in general.
In any case, Islam surely deserves such a rebuke. Does it ever.
Hope says
Why have these 28 pages been kept from the public all these years? For “national security” purposes? That is BS! What does that even mean, exactly? Why has our government been covering for the Saudis? The worst terror attack on American soil and the US government remains friendly with the country that perpetrated it, AND keeps the information hidden from the American people? Someone, please explain this to me. I know we’ve always kissed the Saudis’ butts because we need the oil, but this has to be about more than oil. What is it?
خَليفة says
Saudi Arabia = oil
Bush family = oil
Timothius says
Isn’t there more than just Bush = oil? Saudi should surely be the one on top, but every politician, oil company, automobile production corporation, Us government, stock marketeers, Trump, Hillary, Obama, My dad, and my wife’s dad. For a few!
Mark DeFord Eletion says
“Why has our government been covering for the Saudis?”
One big reason is so that the saudis would return US oil money in the form of treasury bill purchases, thereby keeping the US government functioning. It’s not the only country to do that. China also owns a large part of the US government debt.
Timothius says
Because we in the U.S. value oil revenues over citizens lives. Pretty simple huh?
Kepha says
I have a sneaky suspicion that the Bush II administration may have used the information that was not made public as a way to quietly blackmail the Sa’udis–give us info on the networks, or we go public with this (and won’t be able to hold back popular demand to occupy your oil fields). I do not say this out of sympathy with the Sa’udis. They deserve a lot worse than blackmail and giving up a few of their sons to Gitmo.
خَليفة says
And how is the selling of such things bad? But it is telling, the veiled threat is a defensive action by the Saudis – it lets us know that they know they are indeed guilty.
Where did Wahhabism and Salafism originate but in Saudi Arabia.
Which country has spent hundreds of million of dollars building mosques around the world and teaching Wahhabism? Duh…
DFD says
Califat says: “And how is the selling of such things bad? …”
Actually I think that would give the US a good, nay excellent, excuse to cease the bonds and other debts as compensation. Clearing several trillions of a total debt of about 19 trillion dollars.
Further, and I said this before, NATO could prove itself to be really useful. Defeat the Muslims, near-, middle east and north Africa. Put the Christians in charge, they will deal with them and keep them ‘subjugated’ – in reserved territories. Let’s call these ‘caliphats’. 🙂
Oil and other minerals, cheap and reliable. Trouble from the Christians? None! Instead, we, the west, keep on acting treacherous to them. The only people there whom we can fully trust and who beg for our friendship and help.
Aren’t we just likable?
Georg says
“Which country has spent hundreds of million of dollars building mosques around the world and teaching Wahhabism?”
Estimates of their expenditures in spreading Wahabbism are upwards of $200 billion.
Concerned Citizen says
Didn’t most of the 9/11 hijackers have a Saudi passport?
gravenimage says
Indeed, CC.
Baucent says
The Saudis are bluffing. In the end they will have to take it on the chin. But if there is a proven financial link between a member of the House of Saud and Osama bin Laden then that will be one of the biggest scandals of the century to date. The circumstantial evidence was there, but if they can nail them with a paper trial it will have huge repercussions. Without American protection the House of Saud starts to look very weak indeed, an Iran will love it.
Georg says
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Chain
Westman says
The simplest and economically smooth solution to ending dependence on Muslim countries is to wean ourselves, as nations, from oil.
The obstacles in our way to oil independence are the businesses that indirectly, but absolutely, control our governments. They are steeped in a combination of greed and legal corporate responsibility. They, must, by fiduciary law, attempt to maximize returns to shareholders; that’s you and me in our 401(k) and IRA. That’s why the hijra to Europe is being allowed – cheap labor to make more corporate profits
As long as profit is the God of business, the transition away from oil will only happen as the supplies wane. Like an automobile, running out of gas while climbing a mountain road with a filling station on the other side, we cannot wait until there is a risk of being energy stranded. We will always need some oil for plastics, lubricants, and chemicals. Burning all of it is imbecilic.
We certainly cannot continue dependence on ME oil. There is no viable backup to the destruction of the Saudi, Iraq, and Iranian oil if Iran and Saudi Arabia should war with each other. The Saudis selling $750 Billion of US securities would also sink our economy to depression levels, by triggering another derivatives crisis. The investment banks have never been reformed since the last crisis.
To give any Islamic country the power to destroy the economies of our western countries is sheer insanity. We need a national goal, similar to putting a man on the moon, to get off oil. Congress should step in and create laws friendly to nuclear and alternative energy and absolutely stop all subsidies to non-exploring oil companies. The POTUS office is not stable enough for a long-term goal because it has the potential to change every 4 years and must change within 8.
Quick, name one national goal the citizens have been asked to support. Any goal, any?
Unfortunately, we have met the enemy of oil independence and it is……..us.
TH says
The Suadis are involved in a currency war in that they are forcing down the price of oil in order to sink the American investors in fracking. If the U.S. had any common sense, it would subsidize fracking so as to become self-sufficient and tell the Saudis where to stuff their oil. Oil can be bought from other places like Russia and Venezuela.
Don McKellar says
Frankly, the Saudis withdrawing all their interests in the United States would be the BEST thing that could ever happen security-wise and freedom-wise. I don’t think that in the history of all of mankind’s international affairs, there has ever been a threat that would be so beneficial to the threatenee.
vlparker says
So, let them sell. Who cares?
mortimer says
We should immediately switch to alternate fuels and give these evil manipulators the shaft they so richly have earned.
Soddy Barbaria is the Father of ISIS and the father of Islam. It has exported terror to every country and should now be cut off financially.
They are the worst of betrayers. These conniving manipulators have bought Western politicians, academics and editors to do their bidding and betray the interests of the West. It’s time to call their bluff.
gravenimage says
Saudis threaten to sell US assets if they’re held responsible for role in 9/11
………………………
If the Saudis were *really* our allies would they act like this? Of course not.
linnte says
Does this mean we can drop bombs on Mecca now 😀 ?
Jay Boo says
Sand Fleas
linnte says
Sand fleas? What do you mean? Hahaha! I hate those little blood suckers but what have fleas to do with Saudi? I must be missing something.
Jay Boo says
Sand Fleas
Kaaba
hajj stoning the devil
Westman says
The Kaaba hasn’t always been so glorious. It’s amazing what oil money can buy:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f0/75/80/f075803c1390b4b58d22f179ee5f2354.jpg
The 1941 flood
http://www.historyofmecca.com/02cf4710.jpg
linnte says
Wow! I wonder why God allowed these people to have all this wealth? I am going to ask God that question someday! Hahahaha!
gravenimage says
linnte, oil is only wealth because Western innovation made is so.
If it was up to Muslims, all that oil would still be useless.
gravenimage says
Thanks for those pictures, Westman.
This is what the “stoning of the devil” used to look like, before the huge influx of oil wealth:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6f/d2/1e/6fd21ecc3c1cce40784a1ddb01f82ced.jpg
linnte says
Thanks Graven. My mom and step dad both worked for General Motors. I remember them saying there could be a vehicle built that did not depend so much on oil and gasoline. I was 13. It is a greedy, crazy world we live in!
Peggy says
Oh how I wish.
Jay Boo says
We will have to deliver Syrian asylum seekers inside Saudi Arabia.
Matthieu Baudin says
“… President Obama will soon decide whether to declassify 28 pages of sealed documents suspected of showing a Saudi connection to the deadly 9/11 terror attacks…”
With such a deplorable record in dealing with the current violent International Jihad Mr Obama would do well to take this small step towards the close of his Presidency and bring his people into his confidence.
It is largely incomprehensible to outsiders how the responses to the 9/11 attack have been so piecemeal and poorly focused. 9/11 was the Pearl Harbour of the 21st Century except that it was civilians that were slain in the very heart of New York, instead of military personnel on the periphery of the U.S. It is as if a cloud of disbelief still hangs over the minds of the American People.
Carolyne says
Saudi Arabia owns Obama. He is one of them. He will do nothing to harm the Sunnis. He’s like the Manchurian Candidate.
Concerned Citizen says
You are probably right! Question is….then why did Obama negotiate a deal with Iran? Aren’t Iranians Shiites?
DFD says
Every Muslim will cooperate with any other Muslim, regardless of sect, in weakening or defeating enemies of Islam. That’s their priority.
In particular Christians and Jews.
Jay Boo says
Let’s hope the Saudis sell off their (bought and paid for)
— American university professors.
linnte says
I am wondering why Saudi Arabia has US assets? What is that all about? Anybody know the answer to that question? How could they own assets belonging to the people of the USA?
Mark DeFord Eletion says
Foreigners can buy US private or government property that has been put on the market. They can buy Treasury Bills, and gold.
This is a bit off-topic, but:
It appears that the USA may have sold off all, or nearly all of its gold reserves. The largest gold repository in the world (the Federal Reserve Bank in Manhattan) held mostly foreign-owned gold. By now, there may actually be no US gold left there. The legendary gold repository in Fort Knox has probably been empty for some time.
Where did the gold go? China, Russia, India, Turkey, maybe Saudi arabia – any place where gold jewelry is made, or which has some other reason to stockpile it. I read a recent article indicating that there is much more gold owned on paper than actually exists. If the report is correct, a crash in the gold market could easily occur. If it happens along with some other large market crash, expect big trouble.
DFD says
To Linnte & Mark DeFord Eletion
8,150 Metric tonnes, US gold reserves
3,400 Metric tonnes, Germany
2,450 Metric tonnes, Italy
2,43 Metric tonnes, France
1,760 Metric tonnes, China
1,390 Metric tonnes, Russia
Plus/minus a few tonnes. These are the major holders. Source = World Gold Council
More about Saudi/gulf money in part of my essay about Islam and the upcoming civil war(s), you find that in:
http://gatesofvienna.net/2016/03/tatjana-festerling-on-the-soros-brokered-migration-deal-between-europe-and-turkey/#comment-443715
You have to scroll up a bit to come to part 1
Kepha says
Lots of the world owns US assets, and Americans own a lot of assets overseas. For example, the pension funds of several European states are heavily dependent on US real estate investments (no “free stuff” is truly “free”). Japan is well invested in the US; and the single province of Ontario in Canada beats Japan in US investments–and American investments in the USA are far larger than all foreign investors together.
We would probably weather the Sa’udis pulling out of our markets.
Havoc says
Let the court cases proceed. If the Saudi’s initiate economic war upon us, seize their oil fields and pump them dry.
Carolyne says
And then bomb the oil fields as we leave. After all, we found the oil, developed the fields and the Saudis nationalized them. Let us return Saudi Arabia to the condition in which we found it.
sidney penny says
Axis of Evil
Saudi Arabia(supporter of Pakistan) ,Pakistan, and Iran
dumbledoresarmy says
Axis of evil? Every majority-Muslim entity in the OIC.
Foldsy says
Let them sell. It will be a fire sale & they’ll lose a fortune. What’s not to like?
SpiritOf1683 says
15 of the 19 were Saudis. Hmm. Wonder where they learned their hatred of infidels. Couldn’t have been at a Buddhist temple.
Vivekananda says
Finally two terror funding countries are terrorizing each other.
Charles Martel says
Hey mainstream media and other sycophants. No conflict of interest with the Clintons receiving Saudi donations for their Foundation?
linnte says
BOOM!
Bask says
Nuke mecca, medina, riad, islamabad, cairo, somalia, malaysia,marocco,east london, molenbeek?…. Bufff muslims are between us, thats imposible. The solution is deport them all and ban islam in the west.
duh_swami says
There wiki come a time when the Saudi/s will sell everything just to pay the rent…
Allah led then into the Valley of Death and no one knows where the exit door is…The more they protest, the more obvious their guilt…
TH says
Its a big bluff. Does anyone seriously think that they will dump $750,000 of treasuries. It would sink the price of them and they would lose astronomical sums.
duh_swami says
The Sauds emulate Allah and Mahound,,,neither any good at long range planning…
Michael Poulin says
Who do you think is funding the Sierra Club and all the other eco-terrorists that have effectively shut down American energy production ? The eco-Left nut jobs are on the Saudi payroll.. The US has more coal and oil and gas than any nation on earth the question is why aren’t we using it?
Norger says
At a minimum, there is strong evidence that Saudi diplomats in the US provided financial support to the highjackers. What’s forcing the issue to public light now is potential civil liability. This isn’t wilful biindness, the word is coverup. The coverup here began with the Bush administration. Another complete and total betrayal of the American people by our leaders, in the context of an act of war.
http://nypost.com/2016/04/17/how-us-covered-up-saudi-role-in-911/
Jack Diamond says
Enough is already known to have taken reparations for the trillions 9/11 cost us. The Saudis have been threatening this little ploy since 9/11, freeze their assets (like we did Germany at the start of WWII) or let them be gone. Be gone in every way (including their mosques and endowments and students and slaves). We’ll just have to get along without them somehow. Let them weep at Georgetown and the Carter Center.
Just remember those Saudi banks funding bin Laden– Faisal Islamic Bank, a holding company for al Qaeda operatives, implicated in the embassy bombings in Africa; DMI (Dar al Maal al Islami) “House of Islamic Money” with Saudi Prince Mohammad al-Faisal al-Saud who became CEO in 1983, on its board was bin Laden’s half brother. DMI financed al Qaeda subsidiaries including Faisal Islamic Bank. Al-Shamal Islamic Bank which financed bin Laden in Sudan, with Chairman Adel Batterjee, who also ran the al Qaeda front, Benevolence International Foundation, who also was chairman of another Saudi-charity, World Assembly of Muslim Youth (WAMY), married to al Qaeda in those days. WAMY was founded in 1972 specifically to prevent the “corrupting” ideas of the West.
Al Rajhi Bank, 400 branches in Saudi Arabia, primary bank for sundry charities that were al Qaeda front groups. Including (remember those oldies but goodies) Al-Haramain, Muslim World League, International Islamic Relief Organization(IIRO). Terror-funding entities through al-Rajhi Bank. The al-Rajhi family funded the SAAR Foundation network (SAAR named after Sulaiman Abdul Aziz al-Rajhi). This was the over hundred businesses and people intertwined like pretzels to sponsor jihad and al Qaeda (aka international terrorism), in the USA located in Herndon, VA and raided by the Treasury Dept. in 2002. The U.S. branch of the Muslim World League was part of this SAAR network. The Muslim World League itself is a branch of the Saudi government. So was the IIRO. Prince Sultan, son of Abdulaziz al Saud, donated directly to these charities, millions of dollars.
Wa’el Jalaid, a co-founder of al Qaeda, headed the Muslim World League in Peshawar and was Sec. General of Rabita Trust. Rabita Trust was an al Qaeda front intertwined with the IIRO and the Muslim World League founded by Abdullah Omar Naseef (also Sec. General of the Muslim World League)
and who later sponsored the family of Huma Abedin…hell, the first 1993 WTC attack was funded by Muhammad Khalifa and the IIRO, Khalifa was head of the IIRO, a money launderer for al Qaeda and other terrorists groups (the Moro and Abu Sayef groups). A can of worms. A nest of vipers.
mortimer says
And so..who among our Western elites are agents of these ultra-rich families? Which Western politicians are on the Saudi payroll? How many Western writers, professors, civil servants, etc. have been bribed? What is the extent of the corruption in the West facilitating the infiltration of Islam against the will of the people?
Ethel Mertz says
Oh by the way… Where did you learn of this info? I would like to check it out 😉
Jay Boo says
Mortimer
Jack Diamond here proves that those MUSLIMS are dirty
Islam is a dirty, dirty, dirty, dirty, dirty, ideology.
Instead of focusing all your wrath on the West
you must admit that — MUSLIMS a FILTH
gravenimage says
Jack is right, Ethel. Here’s more information:
“U.S. Tracks Saudi Bank Favored by Extremists”
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB118530038250476405
“Saudi Funding of ISIS”
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/saudi-funding-of-isis
Ethel Mertz says
Knowing all this, why do you suppose the West/US puts up with with SA? The West/US is probably benefiting in some way, but how?
Georg says
The West benefits firstly because Saudi Arabia holds something like 1/3 of the known reserves accessible today. If something happened and they went offline it would be an economic catastrophe. However, this would be unlikely to happen as KSA needs their oil to be purchased in order to function as an unpopular government who essentially pays off their population (through subsidies) to keep them from revolting. This is also why it is unlikely they would liquidate their assets as threatened, because their oil/currency is pegged to the dollar, so they would be harming themselves as much or more as they would us by undermining the dollar.
The Bush administration was hideously close to the Saudi royal family. For instance, Bandar bin Sultan was the Saudi ambassador to the US for something like 20 years and was dubbed “Bandar Bush” by the family as a show of closeness. All of this is a merger of business and politics/foreign policy. The Bush Admin likely hid the 28 pages as the claims were deemed too explosive at the time and could cause massive instability, maybe even a revolt by Americans and throw the US-Saudi relationship into chaos, and thus its trading scheme with the oil on which they and we depend.
Obama likely fears exposing Saudi culpability for similar economic and geopolitical reasons. As you’re aware, the Middle East is an utter disaster at the moment. We do depend on our bases there, of which several have recently closed. The Saudi regime is becoming increasingly paranoid with an ascendant Iran. Aside from ideological differences, Iran has massive reserves which could work to undermine Saudi hegemony. If they are not the world’s leading exporter of oil the foundation upon which the regime stands could collapse.
As mentioned above, Saudi Arabia is in dire straits as they are a deeply unpopular regime. If it were up to the broader Saudi population, they would probably elect someone like Osama bin Laden, which is of course not what the US wants. We have seen the result of leaderless Middle Eastern states as of late, so perhaps the US leadership is considering the economic and defense ramifications of Saudi instability to be a risk not worth the reward with regard to releasing the information. And don’t underestimate their coyness being related to the sheer enormity of Saudi ownership of a wide variety of Western assets, including media. Even a company like Fox News is regrettably beholden to the Sauds financially.
As inevitable and invincible as the Saudi regime may appear, many CIA talk about their trajectory looking questionable, if not bleak. The regime, which fancies itself the protectors of Sunni Islam, guarding Mecca and Medina, sees a looming apocalypse for Sunnis. Thus, their behavior is increasingly unpredictable. If the regime collapsed, and the oil fields in the east were left vulnerable, attacked, or cut off, there is a real possibility the US would have to invade the home of the Kaaba in order to avert a global depression. What would be the outcome? If nothing else, we know the Law of Unintended Consequences would be at fever pitch.
With all this said, the papers must be released. The relationship is toxic, to put it politely, and the American people knowing the extent of Saudi involvement in 9/11 will ultimately be good for the West, particularly in the long-term. This is because we need to know Saudis for who they are in order to effect intelligent policy. For starters, it will highlight the objective and potential of Wahabbism. As of now, Wahabbism is regarded as something of an oddity or annoyance, and not the fascist, bigoted virus it is. To start the shutdown of their invasion and to quell funding it is necessary to demonstrate the totality of their deeds. This of course is woefully incomplete if their role in 9/11 isn’t public knowledge. The cover of this other hermit kingdom will be lifted in a way it has never been before and the people will know the Sauds and their beliefs such that policy and the trajectory is forever changed between our two worlds.
Jack Diamond says
One source are the details in the 9/11 victims lawsuit against Saudi Arabia and others, otherwise known as Burnett v. Al Baraka Investment and Development Corp. The full document used to be available online. There are many other sources showing similar linkages.
As for the U.S.-Saudi tale of woe (and the Iranian), you might want to start with an author Hugh Fitzgerald often refers to, J.B. Kelly, who wrote “Of Valuable Oil and Worthless Policies” in 1979: https://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/07/jb-kelly-of-valuable-oil-worthless-policies
Mark Swan says
Thank You Jack Diamond
linnte says
Alien! Hahahaha! Perfectly stated.
Hope says
But why has the US waited so long to reveal the content of these 28 pages? Why the move to reveal it now, after 14 long years? That is the question. Why now? Saudi Arabia and Iran are enemies, everyone knows that. Could our government’s newfound interest in the 9/11 report have something to do with Obama’s newfound “friendship” with Iran?
Kepha says
Simple. Release it in time to discredit the GOP in a national election. Hand the presidency to Shrillary Shroooooo and Congress to her cronies!
wildbill2u says
The last time a Muslim country tried this tactic, a U.S. President with some backbone said, “Millions for defense but not one cent for tribute.”
Monster says
Had an acquaintance; who was an American married to a Saudi. He disappeared one day after 9/11. Left a condo, a beautiful car , and all belongings. Never heard from since. Well, if the Saudi’s have fear; there is a reason. They have held American’s captive to the oil addiction; and now next logical step; use the money they acquired to destroy us. They are accomplishing it slowly. We should blow the whistle. America has nothing to lose. They are destroying us. Infiltrated our university, our political structure. The average American is frightened the American government is afraid to stand up to Saudi Arabia. Rightfully , so. This is the proof.
Richard Parker says
No doubt our Muslim in Chief and his Muslim Brotherhood friends will acquiesce to the demands of the Saudi’s.
https://waitforthedownfall.wordpress.com/our-muslim-brotherhood/
Monster says
Had an acquaintance; whose Saudi’s husband left the country with all his belongings and condo one day after 9/11. Need proof. This is it. America is addicted and the Saudi’s know it. Now they are using the money they acquired from oil to destroy us. They are succeeded and the average America is afraid the American government who appears to be infiltrated by the Saudis already; will do nothing. I say let them do what they want; if we do no stand up; our nation will be destroyed.
Marcel Berube says
JOHN PAUL II device was :”Don’t be afraid “. And , with others, he contribute to the dismantle of Soviet Russia.
So , USA, don’t be afraid , too. If Saudi Arabia sells assets, we will buy them collectively.
Truth give freedom, not hiding.
mortimer says
Sue them.
Mark Swan says
Absolutely
Carolyne says
Too funny. Pope John Paul II dismantled the Soviet Union? As Hitler said, “How many divisions does the Pope have?” It was Ronald Reagan who caused the demise of the old Soviet Union. Who are the “We” who will buy US securities? The EU? That bunch of clowns? They can’t decide what to have for lunch.
The US is never afraid.
linnte says
And don’t forget George Soros who helped to collapse the ruble.
TheOldOligarch says
Almost exactly the same way the United States shut us down over Suez. Blackmail of this kind tends to be pretty effective, that bill will never see the light of day.
Concerned Citizen says
I didn’t realize that GW Bush flew Saudis out of the US after 9/11?? I just thought Michael Moore made that up!! I remember hearing about it but never looked into it. I wasn’t very political at that time.
linnte says
Some who flew out were Osama Bin Ladins family! Go figure! I guess Government was concerned for their LIVES.
mortimer says
Quote: “The Bush and Obama administrations have refused to unseal the documents, arguing their release would jeopardize national security.”
If the documents can now be unsealed, families of 9/11 victims would have the ability to successfully sue the KSA for huge loot.
The Oracle says
Mortimer, it’s crazy that our own government is protecting a terror sponsoring nation (SA) from grieving US citizens. Treasonous Bush and Obama and their lying administrations.
Peggy says
Oh but Russia’s worse. Sarc off.
The Oracle says
Peggy, it’s unreal that some of the people posting here can’t understand that the US and other Western governments are as bad or much worse then anything the newly formed Russia has done.
Muslim bribe money flows in every department of our US government yet these bloggers with putinphobia seem to care less.
To these twits, Iran, which has the military capability of Paraguay, is the big bad ass of the world.
Mark Swan says
The Russian People are amongst the best People on the planet.
Russia has suffered some of the largest loss of life in history.
One could only Imagine what would have become of Russia if maniacs had not
seized control of such a great people…and those lost lives could have been allowed
to contribute.
No one holds a monopoly on good leadership…no one.
I believe Mr. Putin wants to see Russia prosperous and strong.
I also believe He misses the Soviet Union.
Having the surrounding countries glom onto Europe and NATO is upsetting.
Yet the sooner He and His supporters concentrate on enabling the Russian People
and their great potential the sooner Russia will become the Russia it deserves to be.
The “West” is not Russia’s problem…Self-Respect Is.
Has the World been fair to Russia, no, does that mean they can’t respect Russia and
now treat them right, no, Russia is not the World’s problem, a World that has far to many of it’s own, Russia is it’s own problem and can solve it easily with it’s own great People’s potential.
Peggy says
I think they are refusing to unseal the documents because of their own security. They know they would get lynched.
UNCLE VLADDI says
North America really needs to call their bluff and get a divorce from Saudi Mordorabia.
Arabia IS islam!
K. says
Sell their assets? I think they meant asses. Nuke that rotten shithole, it’s the only moral answer.
Peggy says
Can anyone tell me how a story about SA threatening retaliation if files got unsealed turned into so much Putin and Russia bashing.
Some people just can’t stay on topic.
Angemon says
Is there anyone keeping you here against your will?
Peggy says
WT?
You have a huge problem with comprehension. Maybe you just have a huge problem.
Would you like me to go away? Not happening. Your sort can’t get rid of me. Suffer.
Angemon says
You’re not answering my question, Peggy. Is anyone keeping you here against your will?
“Your sort can’t get rid of me. Suffer.”
I’ll be sure to remind you of that the next time you start insulting me or claiming I can’t control myself – you want me and my “sort” (by which I guess you mean freedom fighters who oppose totalitarianism regardless of its guise) to “suffer”.
Peggy says
Why did you just ask that? Did I imply that I want to leave this site or is that just your wishful thinking?
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“Why did you just ask that? Did I imply that I want to leave this site or is that just your wishful thinking?”
To put it simply (because you’ve proven you can’t handle complex thoughts), you’re acting like an angry child made to be some place against their will. Hence why I’m asking you: is there anyone keeping you here against your will?
Peggy says
Angemon said:
You rant against Saudi Arabia while defending Iran. You’re, for all intents and purposes, enablers of a suicidal, terrorist sponsoring, genocidal, anti-semitic state that legitimises baby killers.
——————————————
And you call me a liar!
You’re one insane SOB. How dare you paint me as all that.
When the hell did I ever defend Iran? What makes me sucida, terrorist sponsoring, genocidal, anti-semetic supporter? When did I ever say anything against the Jews?
You are a pathetic vile individual who only spews venom. Your hatred for Russia and then anyone who won’t support that same hatred is so great that you go off the rails.
So show me anything where I support Iran or have any anit-semetic feelings.
You have overstepped this time, If you’re going to slander at least have something to back you up and not just some wild accusations which only make sense to you.
Telling you to shut up once was extremely mild compared to your crap. You deserve a lot more and calling you SOB is very fitting in this instance.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“Angemon said:
You rant against Saudi Arabia while defending Iran. You’re, for all intents and purposes, enablers of a suicidal, terrorist sponsoring, genocidal, anti-semitic state that legitimises baby killers.”
Let me guess: you’re going to focus on that alone and conveniently ignore the rest of what I said: that you have not disagreed with CB, that you’re lied, that you’re a crybully, etc.
“And you call me a liar!”
Yes. Because you lie.
“You’re one insane SOB. How dare you paint me as all that.”
Because the shoe fits. Also, temper – you routinely accuse me, against all available evidence, of not being able to control myself. Remember. you’re objecting because I responded to your underhanded slander of me. What’s next, you’re going to deny me my right of response by saying I shouldn’t reply to your posts?
“When the hell did I ever defend Iran? What makes me sucida, terrorist sponsoring, genocidal, anti-semetic supporter? When did I ever say anything against the Jews?”
You’re defending CB, who has stood up for Iran in several occasions, and you’re attacking the people who call him out for it. “Tell me who your friends are”, etc.
“You are a pathetic vile individual who only spews venom.”
And more insults. because that’s all you have. Also, temper. Also, I have a long, long history of posts defending Western culture and values, debunking muslim apologists and offering insight and knowledge on several subjects (most of them islamic related). If you want to pretend that it’s all “venom”, go for it. But don’t expect to be taken seriously..
“Your hatred for Russia”
Which I don’t have, and I’ve told you that before. Several times. Not that it stops you – repeat a lie enough times, etc.
“and then anyone who won’t support that same hatred is so great that you go off the rails.”
*yawn* Again wit the insults? Almost as if that’s all you have…
“So show me anything where I support Iran or have any anit-semetic feelings.”
See above. Your baseless attacks on people who called out CB’s defence of Iran is all telling.
“You have overstepped this time, If you’re going to slander at least have something to back you up and not just some wild accusations which only make sense to you.”
Lol!!! Projection much, Peggy? Do keep in mind I’m replying to your slander of me. You said, and I quote:
Which is demonstrably false.
“Telling you to shut up once was extremely mild compared to your crap.”
And, again, you’re lying. You know very well you spat much more egregious insults at me. You’re a crybully.
“You deserve a lot more and calling you SOB is very fitting in this instance.”
Oh, I “deserve a lot more”? So I deserve to be insulted for standing against, and calling out, someone who defends a terrorist-sponsoring, suicidal, genocidal, anti-semitic state as well as terrorist organization responsible for butchering babies in cold blood? Fine, keep at it, and do so while claiming you’re not defending Iran. See how long that works out for you.
BTW, the reason why you and CB are defending Iran? Because it’s an ally to Russia. If roles were reversed – if Saudi Arabia was aligned with Russia and Iran was aligned with the US – I’d still be saying Western countries should have no dealings with Saudi Arabia and Iran while you lot would be defending Saudi Arabia instead of Iran.
Things are quite simple, Peggy. I love freedom. I think that the Western civilization is the greatest civilization in human history. Since I love freedom and my culture, I stand against other cultures who would not only rob me of my freedom – if not outright kill me – but also destroy the culture I hold dear. That’s why I stand against totalitarianism, be it under the guise of islam or the guise of Putin. You, on the other hand, seem to be ok with standing against secularism, democracy, non-discrimination of minorities, etc., just as long it’s not done by muslims – after all, you’re defending CB, who not only spends most of his time here on JihadWatch ranting against the West but also has spoken against democracy, secularism, non-discrimination against minorities, etc.
Come at me, bro.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“Your hatred for Russia and then anyone who won’t support that same hatred is so great that you go off the rails.”
Peggy:
I’ve said more and far worse things about Arabs, Turks, Pakistanis, Afghanis, Somalis and muslims in general than I ever said about Russians. And even when talking about Russians, I mostly, if not always, specified Putin. And I’ve certainly been a far harsher critic of Americans, Britons, French, Italians and Europeans in general than I’ve been of Russians.
Why are you not accusing me of hatred of Arab countries, Turkey, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Somalis, muslim countries in general, USA, United Kingdom. France, Italy and Europe in general? Oh, yeah, because you have a narrative to push. You, like muslims (and leftists in general) take a issue, focus on one specific group of victims and claim “phobia”, “hatred” or “discrimination”. It’s not that what I said is true or that I had to fought off your petty, baseless personal attacks and wonky logic (“well, what you say is wrong because there are several points of view! Shut up because you’re in the minority”), it’s that I have “hatred for Russia”, and if anyone objects to said “hatred” then I go “off the rails” – even though I, as I stated, I’ve said far worse things of a greater number of people, and apparently never went “off the rails” when people “wouldn’t support that same hatred”. But facts don’t matter and the narrative must go on – any criticism of Russia or Putin must be squashed ASAP lest more people wake up to what’s happening East (or West) of them. Whatever Putin does, you’ll be here to tell its critics that Western governments are just as bad, if not worse. Even when they clearly aren’t.
Peggy says
Angemon said:
Projection, thy name is Peggy! You couldn’t resist a chance to attack me, despite having said you were going to ignore my posts
================================
Sometime it’s advisable not to ignore you. I have ignored every singe one of your posts except when you target me directly. You are the one who insists on having a dialogue with me. I ignore you posts except for the two now which i am answering but I ignore all your posts not directed at me.
If you were any sort of a gentleman you would do the same.
You think that calling me a crybaby is going to stop me from pointing out just how uncivilized you are? The more you rant and twist my words and call me crybaby the more you look silly.
I kept my word. I don’t initiate contact with you but you can’t resist because you can’t keep your temper in check. You say it’s because you want to correct us who are wrong and obviously show us up to be stupid or biased but guess what, you are that ignorant and don’t realize that it’s you who can’t see that there are more points of view out there not just yours. Yours isn’t the only point of view which might be right. You are just too arrogant to see that.
Your posts are attacks not just differences of opinion. You try to belittle the other person by talking back like they are idiots.
You don’t have some great following here. Most people I am sure don’t even want to engage with you. Only the same people give you a pat on the back and you think everyone or most agree.
Again, when you post anything I do not reply to you except when you direct it at me. Not wanting to have to engage with you is not being a crybaby it’s just that you are really annoying.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“Sometime it’s advisable not to ignore you.”
Which begs the question: how do you decide when it’s “advisable” or not to ignore me without reading ALL of my posts? You can’t, and that’s exactly what I’m stressing out – for all your talk about “ignoring” my posts, you keep reading ALL of them instead of, I dont know, scrolling past as soon as you see my name.
“ I have ignored every singe one of your posts except when you target me directly.”
See above. Plus, are you sure that’s entirely true? Are you sure you didn’t spoke directly with me when I was addressing someone else? Think about it carefully.
“You are the one who insists on having a dialogue with me.”
Now, now, Peggy, don’t be coy and tell it as it is – you’ve been going at me even when I don’t address you. From this topic alone:
and
You’re OK with slandering me and spreading lies about me but you have issues because I address you directly when you do so? Tsk tsk…
“ I ignore you posts except for the two now which i am answering”
Which you clearly don’t. Plus, it seems that you are OK with lying about and slandering others but you take offence when the others fight back.
If you really ignored my posts, you’d scroll past them. You wouldn’t go “Angemon hates Russia”.
“but I ignore all your posts not directed at me.”
Again, you clearly don’t. I bet you read ALL of them, directed at you or not. Will that stop you from talking about me even when not addressing directly? I doubt it – I bet the next time that happens I’ll be presented with the same whining “I’m not talking to you directly so shut up”.
“If you were any sort of a gentleman you would do the same.”
Well, if being a “gentleman” means having to endure lying, hate-filled totalitarian defending snakes speaking ill of me and forsaking my right of reply, then I’ll pass. Remember: you said you wanted me to suffer. You spoke ill of me and you’re upset because I’m using my right of reply.
“You think that calling me a crybaby is going to stop me from pointing out just how uncivilized you are?”
Crybully – crybaby+bully. And remember: no matter how “uncivilized” I’m allegedly am (because speaking past someone about how terrible they are is “civilized”, right?), it’s you who said you wanted me to suffer.
“The more you rant and twist my words and call me crybaby the more you look silly.”
Crybully – crybaby+bully. As for whether I look silly or not, that’s up to each individual to decide. Do remember, Peggy, that you’re OK with ranting about how terrible I am but you’re playing the victim because I used the right of reply to fightt back against your lies and mischaracterizations.
“I kept my word.”
No, you didn’t You kept reading my posts instead of ignoring them.
“I don’t initiate contact with you ”
Huh, so what? You, as I showed above, went on speaking ill of me without no reason whatsoever. You’re playing the victim because I objected to that. That you didn’t address me directly won’t change that. And remember: you said you wanted me to suffer. Did I ever said something similar to you?
“but you can’t resist because you can’t keep your temper in check. ”
Again, no. You spoke ill of me, as I showed above, and you’re trying to portray my right of reply as if it were something bad – apparently, I should ignore you when you lie about me, otherwise I can’t keep my temper in check. If anyone here can’t keep their tempers in check it would be you. As you said, you want me to suffer. You go around lying about me even though you stated you’d ignore my posts.
“You say it’s because you want to correct us who are wrong and obviously show us up to be stupid or biased ”
Where did I say that?
“but guess what, you are that ignorant and don’t realize that it’s you who can’t see that there are more points of view out there not just yours.”
Nope. Again, projection.
We’ve been through this before, Peggy. Saying “well, there’s more than one point of view, so shut up” is a terrible cop out. If I look out the window and see there’s a thunderstorm raging outside, and you say “the weather outside is sunny and great”, you don’t get to excuse yourself from criticism by saying “well, there’s more than one point of view”. Saying that it’s sunny outside when there’s a thunderstorm raging is demonstrably false.
Plus, just for s***s and giggles, I’m going to apply your “there’s more than one point of view” logic to another scenario. There are muslims who kill in the name of their religion. They say their religion mandates them to do so. But, as Peggy reminds us, there’s more than one point of view about islam, so maybe we shouldn’t criticize the people who do so. Do you understand now why your “logic” fails? Hint: it’s for the same reason moronic, unrelated generalizations fail when applied to specific situations.
“Yours isn’t the only point of view which might be right. You are just too arrogant to see that.”
See above – just because, generally speaking, one can say there are several points of view, doesn’t mean that for all specific cases there’s more than one .If someone is dead, they’re dead – there’s no “point of view” that argues they’re alive. Also, try using these things called “facts” and “logic”to argue your points instead of going “there are other points of view so shut up because you’re in the minority”.
“Your posts are attacks not just differences of opinion. You try to belittle the other person by talking back like they are idiots.”
Oh, the irony! THE IRONY!!! Peggy, I argue my cases. Which is more than can be said about you. Those two sentences amount to a massive, throbbing projection.
“You don’t have some great following here. ”
Again with the bullying – “you’re in the minority, so shut up”. Plus, citation needed. Also, who made you the arbiter of deciding who’s got a great following or not?
“Most people”
Weasel words – citation needed.
“I am sure don’t even want to engage with you.”
If by most people you mean you, then… Well, you say you do not want to engage me, but you keep talking about me.
“Only the same people give you a pat on the back”
Citation needed. And again, truth is not a matter of popularity.
“and you think everyone or most agree.”
Oh, you’re a mind reader now? Tip – keep your day job because if you’re dependant on your mind-reading skills, you’ll starve to death. You’re the one who argues with numbers, not I. I have no problems being in the minority, otherwise I wouldn’t be a part of the CJ movement. I used to think that all religions teach the same. Then I did these things called “collecting information”, “processing information” and “deriving a conclusion”, and I was like “not all religions teach the same. Islam is a nasty piece of work”. Should I, Peggy, stop telling people around me, in my daily live, what islam has in store for them just because most people find such information uncomfortable?
“Again, when you post anything I do not reply to you except when you direct it at me.”
Your escape clause has been thoroughly debunked by now. Your “logic” would deny me of the right to defend myself of your malicious slanders – you’d be free to go around and telling people lies about me while I wouldn’t be able to face my accuser.
“Not wanting to have to engage with you is not being a crybaby it’s just that you are really annoying.”
Again, crybully – crybaby+bully. Crybaby is one thing (which you certainly are), but it’s the bullying I’m specifically objecting to. And again, if you don’t want to engage with me, start scrolling past my posts. Because slandering me and taking offence at my right of reply doesn’t really stand up to scrutiny. Remember: you said you wanted me to suffer. When did I say something like that about you?
Peggy says
I couldn’t even read the whole thing. You have written another War and Peace.
————-
Has anyone noticed that Christianblood only said that SA is the most evil country. For that he received so many angry replies about how Russia is bad and he supports Russia blah blah blah. Christianblood didn’t even mention Russia at all but I have noticed that Angemon especially
You’re OK with slandering me and spreading lies about me but you have issues because I address you directly when you do so? Tsk tsk…
=========================
And what about that is not true?
CB didn’t mention Russia at all and all he said is that SA is bad. Got back to the original statement made by him.
I don’t care how you interpret what he says because you can’t add on more and then slam him for it.
Yes, go back to his original post and then come back and tell me which part of what I said is not true. Don’t defend your lie by putting words in his or my mouth.
Angemon says
Peggy posted;
“I couldn’t even read the whole thing. You have written another War and Peace.”
An alternative point of view: maybe you have a short attention span? Or, and this would be my bet, perhaps making such a claim is an easy way to dodge valid criticism without addressing it.
“And what about that is not true?”
Read my other posts. Claiming they’re too long doesn’t entitle you to ask something already answered. But we can start with your assertion that I and Wellington:
Which is demonstrably false.
Of course, you already said you want my “sort” to “suffer”, so…
Angemon says
P.S.: The irony here is that my first mention of Russia came while quoting what CB wrote. A *fact* that, I’m certain, Peggy willingly overlooked.
CB wrote, and I quoted:
“Wellington, we are not discussing Russia and Eastern Europe in this thread ”
And I replied:
“We always are with you. That’s the whole subtext of your posts. The West sucks with their “freedoms” and “democracy” and “rule of law”.”
Which is, of course, true – CB’s posts that are not directly criticizing the West and its allies are praising Russia and Putin. Anyone honest that’s familiar with his posts can attest to that. But Peggy? Nope, she needs to push the idea that I brought up Russia, that I hate Russia, that I’m always trying to make it about Russia and that I’m defending the Saudis. Of course, she stated that she wants me to suffer – keep in mind that she has, on several occasions, said that I can’t keep my temper in check – so it’s very likely she’s simply doing that to try and torment me. Because if she goes around lying about me it’ll make me, not her, look bad. By whatever insane troll logic.
Angemon says
“Which is, of course, true – CB’s posts that are not directly criticizing the West and its allies are praising Russia and Putin.”
Did I say “criticizing”? Sorry, that’s legitimizing the indefensible. Make that “unapologetically and unfairly bashing” instead. CB has shown many, many times that as far as the West is concerned, he’s as unbiased an reliable as any given jihadi.
Peggy says
Oh one more thing Angemon,
Here is something you said to me before:
Lol!!! You think you have the moral high ground to talk about manners?!?!?! You, with your thuggish “there’s more of us than there is of you, so shut up” manners?!?!?!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
*snort*
==================================
Does this sound like a person in control?
I better stop now. i have having way too much fun.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“Oh one more thing Angemon,
Here is something you said to me before:
Lol!!! You think you have the moral high ground to talk about manners?!?!?! You, with your thuggish “there’s more of us than there is of you, so shut up” manners?!?!?!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
*snort*
==================================
Does this sound like a person in control?”
Yeah, I was clearly so “out of control” I managed to write a coherent sentence ridiculing your lack of self-awareness… You want to talk about lack of self control? Fine, here’s what you had to say:
More of your “self control”:
“I better stop now. i have having way too much fun.”
Yeah, I bet telling people you want them to suffer is what passes as “fun” for you… Anyway, I’m sure that you, in the name of transparency, will have no problems linking to the post where I said that. You know, just to show you’re not cherry-picking something out of context and twisting it to serve your agenda.
Peggy says
You didn’t even address the main part of what I said. Why is that?
Again,
When did I defend Iran and when did I say anything against Jews? I have always defended the Jews but you still call me anti-semetic.
So do address this and don’t just repeat it like what you said was the truth.
You think that putting your own spin on what is said or flat out lying is going to discredit what the other person says?
So yes, this time I invite you to reply but please address the two points.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“You didn’t even address the main part of what I said.”
Don’t be such a rotten liar, Peggy.I addressed every sentence you wrote and stayed on topic. Pretending otherwise won’t get you anywhere. Of course, you already stated you wanted “my sort” to “suffer”, so it’s no wonder you’re going around claiming I didn’t do this or that – if you can’t beat me in the open marketplace of ideas, just fling crap and spread lies, in leftist and muslim fashion.
Peggy says
@Angemon,
You do pick and choose which parts to reply to on the basis of which ones you think you will be most successful at distorting or turning into an offense to put me on constant defense.
No you didnt’ reply to what I asked and I asked twice.
Let’s go third time.
When did I ever defend Iran or say anyhthing agains the Jews and what makes me anti-semetic?
Here is what you claim I am about:
Angemon said:
You rant against Saudi Arabia while defending Iran. You’re, for all intents and purposes, enablers of a suicidal, terrorist sponsoring, genocidal, anti-semitic state that legitimises baby killers.
==================
I have asked you to explain that and show me where I demonstrated that I am like that.
Go ahead and show some evidence you base that on.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“@Angemon,
You do pick and choose which parts to reply to on the basis of which ones you think you will be most successful at distorting or turning into an offense to put me on constant defense.”
Again, projecting much, Peggy? That’s what you so, so much so I called you out on that before. As I pointed out elsewhere in this very topic:
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/04/saudis-threaten-to-sell-us-assets-if-theyre-held-responsible-for-role-in-911#comment-1419603
And that was exactly what you did there – you picked and choose a part of my post and ran with it, distorting it to justify your vitriol.
“No you didnt’ reply to what I asked and I asked twice.”
I did reply. The first time, you claimed the post was too long and you dismissed it. The second time I said I already replied and advised you to re-read my post. Which you will not do so you can justify keeping up the lie I didn’t answer.
“Let’s go third time.
When did I ever defend Iran or say anyhthing agains the Jews and what makes me anti-semetic?
Here is what you claim I am about:
Angemon said:
You rant against Saudi Arabia while defending Iran. You’re, for all intents and purposes, enablers of a suicidal, terrorist sponsoring, genocidal, anti-semitic state that legitimises baby killers.
==================
I have asked you to explain that and show me where I demonstrated that I am like that.
Go ahead and show some evidence you base that on.”
For the third time, I already addressed that. Claiming I didn’t won’t change that. And I have no reason to believe that answering again will make you change your mind. You clearly did not like the response and, instead of rebutting it, you’re demanding another response. You can read what I wrote here:
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/04/saudis-threaten-to-sell-us-assets-if-theyre-held-responsible-for-role-in-911#comment-1419603
Of course, you’ll keep pretending I did not answer, because, as you stated before, you want my “sort” to “suffer”.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“@Angemon,
You do pick and choose which parts to reply to on the basis of which ones you think you will be most successful at distorting or turning into an offense to put me on constant defense.”
Now let’s see what Peggy claims I said:
“Here is what you claim I am about:
Angemon said:
You rant against Saudi Arabia while defending Iran. You’re, for all intents and purposes, enablers of a suicidal, terrorist sponsoring, genocidal, anti-semitic state that legitimises baby killers.”
I said that here:
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/04/saudis-threaten-to-sell-us-assets-if-theyre-held-responsible-for-role-in-911#comment-1419523
In fact, let’s take a look at what I said there (note: I’ll bold Peggy’s words I’m replying to):
I “pick and choose which parts to reply to on the basis of which ones I think I will be most successful at distorting or turning into an offense to put her on constant defence”? Well, I’d suspect she’d know a thing or two about that… Of course, whe’s wrong – she didn’t explain where and how I “pick and choose” (an interesting accusation in a post I addressed everything she wrote). It’s a generic accusation, you see – it doesn’t hold on to scrutiny. I’m used to seeing such baseless accusations when I quote, for example, 9:5 or 9:29 to muslims “You’re cherry picking! You’re distorting”. There’s never an explanation of how I am distorting anything, the accusation is the evidence, much like in this case.
Peggy says
I “pick and choose which parts to reply to on the basis of which ones I think I will be most successful at distorting or turning into an offense to put her on constant defence”? Well, I’d suspect she’d know a thing or two about that… Of course, whe’s wrong – she didn’t explain where and how I “pick and choose”
=====================
I just did give you an example.
Now let’s see what Peggy claims I said:
“Here is what you claim I am about:
Angemon said:
You rant against Saudi Arabia while defending Iran. You’re, for all intents and purposes, enablers of a suicidal, terrorist sponsoring, genocidal, anti-semitic state that legitimises baby killers
============================
You repeated what you originally said again but haven’t offered any evidence to substantiate that.
For the fourth time, please address that and stop going off in another direction.
All I want is for you to address that part.
Are you going to or not?
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
(note: my quotes are in bold)
“she didn’t explain where and how I “pick and choose”</>”
=====================
I just did give you an example.”
Where’s the explanation of my alleged distortion? And do keep up, Peggy – the example you gave was, as I demonstrated, itself a cherry-picked distortion.
“You repeated what you originally said again but haven’t offered any evidence to substantiate that.”
I did. I explained what I said. I can only attribute your refusal to admit to your expressed desire of seeing me “suffer”. But I’ll relink my original reply:
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/04/saudis-threaten-to-sell-us-assets-if-theyre-held-responsible-for-role-in-911#comment-1419603
Again, point to what I said – what I actually said, not the part yo cherry picked from – and explain me what you’re having so much trouble comprehending.
“For the fourth time, please address that and stop going off in another direction.
All I want is for you to address that part.
Are you going to or not?”
See above. I repeated what I said, not only in your quotes but also by reposting the whole paragraph that you cherry-picked from. I can only attribute your refusal to admit to your expressed desire of seeing me “suffer”.
But since you’re willing to talk with me, you wrote, and I quote:
This is demonstrably false. Are you going to apologize for it and take it back? Or are you mule-headed enough to carry on with that?
Peggy says
Angemon, let me put it to you another way.
Please explain what you meant by this statement:
“Here is what you claim I am about:
Angemon said:
You rant against Saudi Arabia while defending Iran. You’re, for all intents and purposes, enablers of a suicidal, terrorist sponsoring, genocidal, anti-semitic state that legitimises baby killers
——————————————-
No matter how many times I ask you to provide evidence for this statement you won’t. All you do is keep going back to other things that were said.
I am only asking you to explain this particular one so don’t divert to other things.
If you can’t provide evidence to substantiate that just say so.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“Angemon, let me put it to you another way.
Please explain what you meant by this statement:”
What, the statement you cherry-picked to distort? How about if I, instead, point out to what I actually said? Oh, wait, I already did that, and you ignored it.
“No matter how many times I ask you to provide evidence for this statement you won’t. ”
Again, I’ve went back at it. Twice. That you insist in keeping your head in your ass and pretend otherwise is not the same as me not getting back at it:
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/04/saudis-threaten-to-sell-us-assets-if-theyre-held-responsible-for-role-in-911#comment-1419966
But, of course, you already said you want to make me “suffer”, so I guess since you picked a lie to tar me with all that’s left is run with it.
“I am only asking you to explain this particular one so don’t divert to other things.”
Those other things being the lies you spread about me, right? You feel entitled to pick a small sample of what I said, try to distort it into something else and use it as a red herring to avoid answering to what you said. Not going to work. Meanwhile, what I asked is still unanswered. Since you’re willing to talk with me, you wrote, and I quote:
This is demonstrably false. Are you going to apologize for it and take it back? Or are you mule-headed enough to carry on with that?
Angemon says
“Angemon, let me put it to you another way.”
Is it a way that doesn’t involve doing the exact same thing you accused me of doing – picking a part of your post and distorting it? Of course not – that would require require honesty and lack of bias. You already stated you want me to “suffer”, and you have stated something about me that’s demonstrably false. Are you going to apologize for it?
Peggy says
Where is the distortion? I asked you to explain that part to me but seeing how you can’t and keep going on about something else I will leave it at that.
You don’t have the character so you keep going around in circles and pulling sh!t out of your you know what in order to keep deflecting.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“Where is the distortion?”
Why did you leave out the first half then?
“I asked you to explain that part to me but seeing how you can’t”
Again, I did.
“and keep going on about something else I will leave it at that.”
By “something else” you mean the demonstrable falsehoods you made regarding me for which you refuse to apologize for and blatant lack of control and objectivity when it comes to me. Not only you said you want me to “suffer”, you also said, and I quote
Which is demonstrably false. A cursory search through JW’s files will reveal that I’m a far harsher critic of Saudi Arabia than I’ve been of Iran. Of course, Saudi Arabia, for all its fault, is not the country with a doomsday cult trying to get their hands on nukes with the express goal to wipe Israel off the map. Iran, however, is aligned with Moscow, so any objectivity you might possibly have goes out the windows – what else to expect from someone who said that Russia may be arming Iran, but had things under control…
“You don’t have the character so you keep going around in circles and pulling sh!t out of your you know what in order to keep deflecting.”
Again, no, that’s you, projecting.You stated something that’s blatantly false and you refuse to admit it.
Angemon says
You know what, Peggy? After your recent little display of childish tantrum, I stand by what I said. You’re lying through your teeth. Wellington and I stated, on several occasions, that the US (and the West in general) should have no dealings with muslims countries, be it Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan or any of the other islamic hellholes. We say so because of an ideological stance – islam is incompatible with Western civilization. CB and you? You rant against Saudi Arabia while defending Iran, a country where most of the population subscribes to a doomsday cult (Twelvers believe that they can cause the return of the mahdi by starting a nuclear war) because of Iran is aligned with Moscow while Saudi Arabia is aligned with Washington. You are, for all intents and purposes, enablers of a suicidal, terrorist sponsoring, genocidal, anti-semitic state that legitimises baby killers. That’s who you are defending, and that you see nothing wrong with that is troubling, and begs the question: what’s your goal here?
The Oracle says
Peggy, you agree like almost everyone else responding to this JW article, that the Saudi’s are a cult of suicidal, terrorist sponsoring, genocidal, Anti-Semites who kill babies in Iraq, Yemen, and Syria. The West certainly has no problem with doing business with the Saudi’s. So why is it any worse that the US, Russia, Britain and France want relations and business with Iran? These countries are all rushing in too suckle Iranian teet after the sanctions are lifted.
Also, this news event is about Saudi Arabia, not Iran.
Thanks Peggy.
Peggy says
The Oracle says
The oracle said:
April 19, 2016 at 2:22 pm
Peggy, it’s unreal that some of the people posting here can’t understand that the US and other Western governments are as bad or much worse then anything the newly formed Russia has done.
Muslim bribe money flows in every department of our US government yet these bloggers with putinphobia seem to care less.
To these twits, Iran, which has the military capability of Paraguay, is the big bad ass of the world.
———————————-
I know. Hatred for Putin has made some blind to the truth. Nobody is saying that Putin is a good man. I have never said that but i do support him in what he is doing in Syria and I applaud him for that.
Have you noticed the replies I’ve been getting from Angemon? Won’t address what I have asked him to address four times but keeps going back to the word suffer I used.
He distorted that too. I didn’t se I want his sort to suffer. I said you won’t get rid of me, suffer which is is not the same thing. I didn’t include anyone else in that but he claims I said that I want his sort to suffer.
Pathetic.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“I know. Hatred for Putin has made some blind to the truth.”
Nope. Blind worship did. Of course, you haven’t met any criticism of Putin and Russia you wouldn’t chalk up to “hatred”, have you?
“Nobody is saying that Putin is a good man. I have never said”
Ah, the classic red-herring. “I never said that”. Did someone said you did? You never said he was a good man? Well, you certainly never acknowledged there’s valid criticism to be made of him. Again, you look exactly like a muslim apologist – “I necer said there’s not valid criticism of the quran and islam, but what these people are doing is hatred, plain and simple”…
“that but i do support him in what he is doing in Syria and I applaud him for that.”
Not only you applaud what he’s doing in Syria, you defend everything he does tooth and nail. And his allies as well. Iran included.
“Have you noticed the replies I’ve been getting from Angemon? Won’t address what I have asked him to address four times but keeps going back to the word suffer I used.”
Oh, the poor little crybully! That you outright stated that you want me to suffer is of no relevance. That you spread demonstrable lies about me and Wellington is of no importance. No, the matter here is what you’re accusing me of doing. Which is, of course, false, but you took a lesson from Goebbels and you’re going to repeat that lie until someone believes.
“He distorted that too. I didn’t se I want his sort to suffer. I said you won’t get rid of me, suffer which is is not the same thing.”
Really? Who do you want to suffer? The same people you’re talking about in the previous sentence – “my sort”.
“I didn’t include anyone else in that”
Except you did. You wrote, and I quote, “Your sort”.
“but he claims I said that I want his sort to suffer.”
Which you clearly do. But if your “defence” is “oh, I didn’t mean anyone else, just Angemon”, it’s still not a very good one. Remember, you’re the one who is quick to jump at other’s alleged lack of control of their temper. Did I ever said I wanted you to suffer? Did I ever said anything similar to that to you?
“Pathetic.”
What a wonderful display of childish pettiness. And I thought muslims were the worse losers in the world, the way they handle criticism of islam – I hadn’t seen you handling criticism of Russia and Putin yet…
Peggy says
If anyone is petty it’s you.
Peggy says
Angemon said:
You rant against Saudi Arabia while defending Iran. You’re, for all intents and purposes, enablers of a suicidal, terrorist sponsoring, genocidal, anti-semitic state that legitimises baby killers
========================
I’m still waiting for you to explain this. What exactly are you trying to say by saying that for all intents and purposes etc.
Why won’t you explain that sentence?
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“I’m still waiting for you to explain this.”
And I’ still explaining to hear why you leave half of it out. You know, especially since you accused me of “ pick and choose which parts to reply to on the basis of which ones you think you will be most successful at distorting or turning into an offense to put me on constant defense”
“What exactly are you trying to say by saying that for all intents and purposes etc.
Why won’t you explain that sentence?”
It’s self explanatory.. As I wrote:
But since you’re now addressing me, despite all your previous promises of ignoring me, I’l remind you that you wrote, and I quote:
This is demonstrably false. Not only I first mentioned Russia when quoting, and replying to, CB, a cursory search through JW’s files will reveal that it’s also false.
Are you going to apologize for it and take it back? Or are you refusing to do so because you think it’ll make me “suffer”? If that’s the case, you’re just proving your pettiness. I am giving you a chance to show you’re an adult and able to discuss things calmly and rationally, despite all evidence to the contrary.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“Angemon said:
You rant against Saudi Arabia while defending Iran. You’re, for all intents and purposes, enablers of a suicidal, terrorist sponsoring, genocidal, anti-semitic state that legitimises baby killers
========================
I’m still waiting for you to explain this.”
Notice that I wrote this like an hour before that post of yours:
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/04/saudis-threaten-to-sell-us-assets-if-theyre-held-responsible-for-role-in-911#comment-1420227
Of course, you need to pretend I did not address, on several occasions, the self-explanatory post you’re demanding an explanation to. Not only I addressed, I explained why I stand by it in light of your recent actions. You need to keep the lie going, hoping someone else believes it so you can keep spewing vitriolic venom against me, because of my criticism of Russia.
You’re a nasty, spiteful, vengeful little person who, despite thinking she can dish it out, can’t take it. Any criticism of Russia or Putin is met with charges of “hatred”, and heaven forbids someone points out that doomsday Iran, which is aligned with Moscow, is trying to wipe out Israel. Of course, what else to expect from someone what stated, regarding Russia and Iran, that Russia has things under control?
Angemon says
No, Peggy, you’re a petty and spiteful little person, and you’ve been proving it over and over.
Peggy says
Angemon says
April 20, 2016 at 8:03 am
Peggy posted:
“Angemon said:
You rant against Saudi Arabia while defending Iran. You’re, for all intents and purposes, enablers of a suicidal, terrorist sponsoring, genocidal, anti-semitic state that legitimises baby killers
========================
I’m still waiting for you to explain this.”
==================
Actually you haven’t explained that at all. Accusing me of anti-semetism is quite ridiculous when I have always defended the Jews.
You are the vile, spiteful creature you paint me to be. Haven’t you noticed that you jump down everyone’s throat who dares have a positive thing to say about Putin or Russia.
You are the one having arguments with other people here and you turn every conversation that you disagree with into a really bad experience.
I might disagree with people but I don’t turn that into such a horrible experience. You are the only one who has so far engaged me in a long drawn out argument.
You on the other hand have turned differences of opinion into unpleasant exchanges with several people. Why? You have to be always right no matter what which makes you an absolute fool.
Nobody comes at you in the way you come at them when they disagree with you. You start every argument.
Don’t know why you are so angry all the time and need to come here and get that anger out but you really should do something about it. Can’t imagine you having any friends and if you call the few who support you here friends then you really are a lonely fellow.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“Actually you haven’t explained that at all.”
I have. That you refuse to acknowledge it won’t change a thing.
“Accusing me of anti-semetism is quite ridiculous when I have always defended the Jews.”
Ah, so you’re trying to run with poor comprehension skills? I said that, for all intents and purposes, you’re enabling a suicidal, terrorist sponsoring, genocidal, anti-semitic state that legitimises baby killers. Which you are, since you stand by Iran because of its ties with Russia. You wrote, and I quote:
Or are you going to deny you wrote that?
“You are the vile, spiteful creature you paint me to be.”
Again with the projection? You’re worse than a monkey with its faeces…
“Haven’t you noticed that you jump down everyone’s throat who dares have a positive thing to say about Putin or Russia.”
Which I clearly don’t. But that’s all you have – make baseless generalizations, turn them into a drama and play the victim.
“You are the one having arguments with other people here”
Again, a demonstrable lie. Even according to your own posts:
The idea that I’m the only person on Jihad Watch who argues with anyone is simply ludicrous, and evidence that there’s no low you won’t sink to to defame someone you personally dislike. Because that’s the crux of the matter: you dislike me. Nay, you hate me. As you said, you want me to suffer.
“and you turn every conversation that you disagree with into a really bad experience.”
Again, no. And you should know this because I rubbed your face in it. I have, in the past, showed you instances where I changed my mind and acknowledged I was wrong in face of new facts.
“I might disagree with people but I don’t turn that into such a horrible experience.”
Huh, excuse me? Have you seen the way you jumped at me and Wellington for (rightfully) criticising Putin and Russia? Have you seen the way you go underhandedly complaining about people who criticize Iran, as if they never said a bad word about Saudi Arabia?
“You are the only one who has so far engaged me in a long drawn out argument.”
Right, because I’m apparently arguing all alone, and because it’s the length of the argument that matters, not the arguments both sides present.
“You on the other hand have turned differences of opinion into unpleasant exchanges with several people.”
Starting with muslim apologists. I usually start friendly and easy-going. It’s only when people start acting like asses to me for what I say – you know, like you did – that I harden my stance.
“Why? You have to be always right no matter what which makes you an absolute fool.”
This is absolutely hilarious coming from you, seeing how you haven’t seen a criticism of Putin and Russia you’d agree with. Your lack of self-awareness should be a case study. And, of course, you say that despite, as I point out, I’ve showed you several instances where I acknowledged I was wrong and changed my stance. You’re lying, plain and simple, as you’ve lied in the past, and you take offence when I react to your lies.
“Nobody comes at you in the way you come at them when they disagree with you.”
Wrong again. I’m usually friendly and easy-going. It’s only when people start acting like asses to me for what I say – you know, like you did – that I harden my stance.
“You start every argument.”
Nope. Nope. Nooooooooooope.
“Don’t know why you are so angry all the time and need to come here and get that anger out but you really should do something about it.”
Funny enough, that would be my advice to you. I’m angry all the time? Citation needed. That’s an odd accusation to make, seeing how I often crack jokes and make other take a well-needed, relaxing laugh in the face of a dire threat. Can’t say the same about you. No, you act like you have a stick up your ass.
Of course I’m not angry all the time, and of course I don’t come here to get that anger out, but you need to push that narrative. You need to paint me as an angry person so you can justify the venomous vitriol you spit at me.
“Can’t imagine you having any friends”
In all fairness, you do have a limited imagination – for starters, you can’t imagine that any criticism of Putin or Russia may be fair…
“and if you call the few who support you here friends then you really are a lonely fellow.”
Huh, is there anything wrong in calling the people here friends? Of course not. There are wonderful people in the CJ movement, and I am proud of calling them “friends”. If you think that calling someone on a message board “friend” means that I’m a lonely fellow… Well, guess what? I don’t give a rat’s ass. But remember, not only you started the personal attacks, you keep doubling down on them. “You’re a SOB. You’re angry. You’re a lonely fellow”. Oh, boo f***ing hoo! What are you, 6? And you wrote that after accusing me of being a “vile, spiteful creature”? Tsk tsk…
But now that you vent your rage gland, there’s this little matter of the outright lies you wrote.
As I pointed out, that is demonstrably false, although you seem like you want to be right, no matter what, hence why you fling crap in my general direction and accuse me of being angry instead of backing down and admitting you lied.
Concerned Citizen says
Just read on rollcall.com that Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell have sided with the Dems to stop the 28 pages from being released to the public. What are they trying to hide?
Peggy says
Angemon said”
Ah, so you’re trying to run with poor comprehension skills? I said that, for all intents and purposes, you’re enabling a suicidal, terrorist sponsoring, genocidal, anti-semitic state that legitimises baby killers. Which you are, since you stand by Iran because of its ties with Russia. You wrote, and I quot
“Yes, Russia is in contact with Iran but I think Russia knows what they are doing there. I am certain that Russia has this under control”
================================
You are either that stupid that you can’t understand a simple sentence or you are deliberately twisting my words.
When I said that Russia has that under control doesn’t mean I stand by Iran. It means that Russia can obviously keep Iran under control.
I also said that it’s easier to keep on country under control than terrorists who are all over the world. Now that definitely doesn’t sound like I stand with Iran but find terrorists around the world a greater threat and less likely to be managed than one country, one army which is in one place.
I am certain that if people read my comments, especially the first one which started all this they will find that you jumping all over them like this is a sign of a very sick man.
Angemon says
Peggy posted:
“You are either that stupid that you can’t understand a simple sentence or you are deliberately twisting my words.”
No, Peggy, that’s you wanting to be right no matter what and insulting people just for having different points of view! Plus, false dichotomies are a logical fallacy.
“When I said that Russia has that under control doesn’t mean I stand by Iran.”
It means that you, unlike me, have no ideological objections to dealings with Iran on the grounds that it’s a muslim-majority country. Except when it comes to the US and the nuclear deal, which, according to you, is just as bad as the relationship between Moscow and Tehran, even though you never criticized it.
“It means that Russia can obviously keep Iran under control.”
Huh, what? Iran is increasingly more belligerent, anti-Israeli and anti-American. Not only that, if history shows us anything is that the people who thought they had muslims “under control” ended up paying a hefty price. Russia obviously can’t keep Iran under control – look at how Tehran is courting Ankara – but you’re not one to let facts get in the way of a good narrative, are you?
How belligerent do you think Iran would be if it did not have Russia backing them?
“I also said that it’s easier to keep on country under control than terrorists who are all over the world.”
Again, you’re just excusing dealings with Iran just as long they’re done by Russia. Plus, Iran is becoming increasingly belligerent, anti-Israel and anti-US – doesn’t sound there’s a lot of control going on. Not to mention the attempted approach between Iran and Turkey – I doubt that sits well with Russia.
“I am certain that if people read my comments, especially the first one which started all this they will find that you jumping all over them like this is a sign of a very sick man.”
By “jumping at them” you mean “using my right of response to defend myself from outright lies”. But let’s do just that – let’s take at look at your initial posts:
As I explained before, that’s demonstrably false. Are you going to acknowledge you lied?
Or this one:
I first mentioned Russia while quoting, and replying to, CB. Of course, that didn’t stop you from pretending otherwise, as if I had brought up Russia out of nowhere. Truly, rebutting lies is indeed the mark of a very sick person… /sarc. off
But I bet that the angle you’re trying to work – you’re trying to claim that I’m ” jumping all over them” because I addressed you when you were not posting to me directly – because apparently, you should be able to get away with lying about and slandering just as long as you’re not doing it directly to my face. Is that it?
In addition to admit you lied there, I want to hear you say (or read you write, as the case may be) that Iran is a suicidal, jihadi, anti-semite terrorist-sponsoring state, that Russia should have no dealings with Iran whatsoever, under no excuse, and that Putin should immediately and unilaterally sever all ties to Tehran. You know, just so we’re clear on the subject.