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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Survey: 90% of 13-year-olds at Italian school would convert to Islam if the Islamic State came to their home

Apr 20, 2016 3:54 pm By Robert Spencer

These children are the products of a relativistic, materialistic, hedonistic culture that has relentlessly indoctrinated them with the ideas that all belief systems and cultures are of equal value and are essentially interchangeable, and that it is wrong and “racist” to oppose even an authoritarian and violent ideology, and that defense of one’s homeland and culture is likewise “racist,” and that Judeo-Christian Western civilization is itself uniquely “racist” and responsible for the great majority of the evil in the world. So what do they expect?

From the looks of this, the conquest and Islamization of Europe will be easy.

English-speaking_Islamic State jihadi

“90 percent said they would convert to Islam if the IS came – generation without ideals,” translated from “90 Prozent würden zum Islam konvertieren, wenn der IS käme – Generation ohne Ideale,” Katholisches.info, April 1, 2016 (thanks to William Kilpatrick):

(Rome) 90 percent would convert to Islam without hesitation to save their own lives, the Islamic State (IS) should conquer the country. This “shock result” (Il Giornale) came from a survey of 13-year-olds at an Italian secondary school. Only two of 25 students opposed conversion. Both students are from devout Catholic families.

No matter in which Italian city or what school: The issue of Islam and violence is discussed everywhere. The phenomenon concerns the whole of Europe. The Catholic Internet newspaper Il Sussidiario reported from…an Italian middle school. The 25 students are all 13 years of age. They also discussed Islam. From the teacher they wanted to receive information about the Islamic State (IS). Who are they? What is their program? How are they operating?

“What do you would if the IS came to your home?”

The teacher gave them information. She told her students also that many fighters of the IS come from Europe. Young Muslims who are the second or third generation immigrants. They are well integrated, come from families with a certain level of prosperity, and several possess a university degree or have begun studies. One of the most infamous executioners of IS was previously a well-known DJ in Europe.

The teacher told her students that the IS destroyed all Christian symbols and threatened everyone who was not willing to convert to Islam with death. She also did not conceal that many Christians were killed, exiled or enslaved because of their faith by IS.

At the end she asked the students a question:

“What do you would if the IS came to your home?”

“The answer was almost unanimous and is shocking,” said the daily newspaper Il Giornale. Without hesitation, 23 students declared that they would convert to Islam. “23 students were of this opinion, only two resisted. They came from practicing Catholic families.”…

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Filed Under: dhimmitude, Featured, Islamic State (aka ISIS, ISIL, Daesh), Italy Tagged With: Il Giornale, Il Sussidiario


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Comments

  1. Bill says

    Apr 20, 2016 at 4:00 pm

    Can you blame them? The Pope has been the first to submit.

    • Marcel Berube says

      Apr 20, 2016 at 7:17 pm

      I was to say the same thing . Pope is leading the parade.

      • Shane says

        Apr 21, 2016 at 10:03 am

        Yes, but to be fair, most people would pretend to convert if a group of Muslim jihadists invaded their home and threatened to cut their head off. The West needs a strong Pope who will lead the counter-attack against Islamic jihad, not a weak Pope like the current one who is encouraging Europe to accept hordes of Muslim jihadists.

        • Pere LaChaise says

          Apr 21, 2016 at 12:09 pm

          Pope Francis is winning them over to Christ, which you people can’t comprehend in your addiction to fear. Defense of community is absolutely valid, but millions of Moslems in Moslem dominated countries are becoming cryptochristians every year, and outside they are converting openly. The religion of hate is dying. The only way to oppose it is by embracing the Cross. It is a mystery of Divine love that does not appear to make worldly sense. Islam is entirely worldly, without love or grace. Our Christianity cannot become hobbled to the inferior logic of the enemy of mankind.

        • gravenimage says

          Apr 21, 2016 at 4:48 pm

          Pere LaChaise wrote:

          Pope Francis is winning them over to Christ, which you people can’t comprehend in your addiction to fear.
          ………………………

          Pere LaChaise, the idea that one must toady to Islam and roll over for an Islamic takeover are necessary in order to win Muslims over to Christ is questionable in the extreme.

          And characterizing a concern about defending ourselves against Jihad as an “addition to fear” is simply grotesque.

          Why aren’t you instead concerned about these high-school students who cavalierly say they would abandon their faith and convert to the vicious creed of Islam were ISIS to come knocking at their their doors?

        • Fessitude says

          Apr 21, 2016 at 6:59 pm

          ” millions of Moslems in Moslem dominated countries are becoming cryptochristians every year”

          This meme of Christian Wilsonianism has become quite a common response to the problem of Islam, I’ve noticed. The problem with it is that it’s gambling on the prospect that there is, or there will be, a critical mass of Muslims who will convert to Christianity and by doing so will solve the problem their former Islam continues to cause us. Since the spearhead of that problem of Islam is terrorism; and since future terror attacks which we reasonably assume Muslims will continue to plot, more numerously and more horrific will require innumerable Muslims to continue to insinuate themselves inside the West in growing numbers — among which are terror plotters & enablers whom we cannot distinguish from supposedly harmless Muslims — we must attend to our primary responsibility: the safety of our societies. This means we must try to undermine any memes that would facilitate the sense that we have to tolerate the continued presence of Muslims inside the West. And since Christian Wilsonianism does precisely that, we conclude that it is counter-productive (and at times may even be a clever ruse by stealth jihadists pretending to be ex-Muslims).

    • Enrico says

      Apr 21, 2016 at 3:18 am

      Obviously Antipope Francis is not the pope, but an antipope. This sect which he is leading is not the Catholic Church, but a Satanic sect aiming at the destruction of the Traditional Catholic Faith and Christendom in the world replacing it with utter hostility and idolatry. You could check out http://www.vaticancatholic.com . They document in detail on this.

    • John Magee says

      Apr 21, 2016 at 4:11 pm

      Pere Lachaise. A handful of Muslim refugees have converted to Christianity. How can we be certain they are sincere? We can’t. Of course they risk their life if their conversion is discovered and that has to be praised if their conversions are sincere. The reality is whole European cities now have more children under 16 who are Muslim than Christian children in those same cities. Muslims. The demographics for Sweden, Germany, Holland, Britain, France and other European countries looks bleak. Muslims have no respect for dhimmi weaklings like the present pope. They will intensify their migration Jihad to conqueror Europe and the European diaspora in North and South America and Australia by migration invasion and when they have become majorities in those places by force.

      • Dennis says

        Apr 22, 2016 at 7:47 am

        I agree with John. Look at what is going on in our Western nations! Living in the Middle East I know of not-one Muslim who has converted to Christianity, though there must be some. I have met quite a few, however who are now atheists, humanists, agnostics, etc. Here in India there are quite a few Muslims who are now atheists. Bangladesh also, and in Israel I have met many secular Palestinian ex-Muslims. On the other hand why are there so many western converts to Islam. The good Pere is living in fantasyland if he believes millions of Muslims are crypto christians!

  2. Ted Tyler says

    Apr 20, 2016 at 4:05 pm

    If ISIS was in power in my town, I would quickly convert to Islam to avoid decapitation. And I would be very quite about my true beliefs.

    • Resist says

      Apr 20, 2016 at 4:35 pm

      If ISIS was in power in my town, I would not convert and would not go down without a fight. Personally I would rather die standing than crawling.

      • Paul says

        Apr 20, 2016 at 5:15 pm

        That’s the attitude. I’d like to think I’d do maximum damage before
        finally being killed. Look at the Kurds, not to mention the all female
        fighting unit they have. They’re an example to us all.

      • Dan says

        Apr 20, 2016 at 6:41 pm

        A First World War song says it all: Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition.

      • Fessitude says

        Apr 21, 2016 at 7:42 pm

        One can’t fight if one is bound & shackled, surrounded by armed Muslims, thrown in a dungeon, then dragged to the chopping block. If one pretends to convert, however, one could try to at least do some damage later on.

        • Angemon says

          Apr 21, 2016 at 8:47 pm

          Fessitude posted:

          “One can’t fight if one is bound & shackled, surrounded by armed Muslims, thrown in a dungeon, then dragged to the chopping block. If one pretends to convert, however, one could try to at least do some damage later on.”

          So I guess we now know which way the self-proclaimed “hard on muslims”, no-nonsense, “Robert Spencer is a softie, I know better than him”, “deport all muslims”, self-professed anti-muslim Hesperado would go – “ash hadu anlaa ilaha illallhu wa ash hadu anna muhammadar-rasulullah – please, my dear new masters, can you point me in the direction of Mecca? Because I feel like praying not 5 but 50 times per day.”

          But I have to give credit where it’s due: unlike most poltroons, good old voeg at least admits he’d offer no resistance to his new masters – his braggadocio is limited to calling people who would die before converting to islam “softies”, he outright admits that if push came to shove he’d switch teams and convert on the spot faster we could say “you’re a softie!!!”.

    • Jack Diamond says

      Apr 20, 2016 at 4:48 pm

      So you’ve already made that decision, what you would do to save your own skin? The question then is what else would you do? Do you think it stops at converting? Would you be a snitch? Actively collaborate? At what point would you draw a line and say no further, or is it survive at any cost? Because the cost is other people. Always.

      People in the concentration camps, grey and red ones in the 20th century, knew something about these moral choices, choices most people never have to make. Christians have in their whole early history these stark choices, deny their faith or be killed for it. The apostles. Christ. Some Chrisians forget that, they decide Christ told his followers they would be rewarded with riches and ease, not that the world would hate them. Solzhenitsyn knew something about stark moral choices, choices between human dignity and conscience and survival– life itself at all costs. In the Gulags.

      “This is simply a turn of phrase, survive at any price…this is the great fork of camp life. From this point the roads go to the left and to the right.

      “One of them will rise and the other will descend. If you go to the right you lose your life and if you go to the left you lose your conscience. One’s own order to oneself ‘Survive!’ is the natural splash of a living person. Who does not wish to survive? Who does not have the right to survive?…but simply to survive does not mean yet at any price. “At any price” means at the price of someone else.

      One must survive at any price. And what that means is: One must become a stool pigeon, betray one’s comrades. And thereby get oneself set up comfortably. Add perhaps even get time off sentence…it was granted to me to carry away from my prison years…this essential experience: how a human being becomes evil and how good…”

      Best to think about what one is living for to know what is worth dying for.

      • Ted Tyler says

        Apr 20, 2016 at 6:45 pm

        Nicely put Jack, but to be most effective, you must inflict maximum damage on the enemy before meeting your own demise. You need to know your enemy and you need a plan. If Charles Martel had not chosen a strategic location at the battle of Tours, there is a good chance that the Islamization of Europe would have taken place a long time ago. If you employ the strategy of Sun Tzu your chances of success are far greater than if you followed the “Search and Destroy” tactics of Westmoreland. If you charge into cannon – as in the Light Brigade – you die with no loss of life to the enemy. The strategy then is to get into the belly of the beast, see what makes it work, and then kill it. To say “We will fight” – with no strategic plan to back it up – is simply a “tale told by an idiot………” (Macbeth)

        • Jack Diamond says

          Apr 20, 2016 at 8:58 pm

          Your post didn’t make it clear you were converting so as to lead a resistance movement, to live to fight another day. The 13-year olds in question do not seem to be employing a Sun Tzu strategy to fool the enemy. They would just surrender.

          Sure ideally it is better to do “maximum damage” but one doesn’t always have the luxury of being in a position to foment rebellion. A helpless prisoner (a captive) only has the power of personal choices made as choices are demanded of them. The calculus of human courage and the defiance of evil is not just measured in a utilitarian way.
          One could call it idiotic, of course. Courage. Dignity. Virtue. Sacrifice. To some giving your life up for anything is idiotic. Why would a Christian not renounce his faith if it meant their life? Why did the Greeks at Marathon risk everything when all the odds were against them? Why does someone lay down their life for another? Idiotic to some. Those who really believe life is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury signifying nothing. The “survive at any price” people. The bravery of those Christians murdered by ISIS and the manner they faced death are an inspiration to some, of faith and courage in the face of Evil. And a source of righteous anger. How do you measure that? As always, the significance of our actions are seen in retrospect, looking backwards, not as they are lived forward.

      • gravenimage says

        Apr 21, 2016 at 5:39 pm

        Jack Diamond wrote:

        So you’ve already made that decision, what you would do to save your own skin? The question then is what else would you do? Do you think it stops at converting? Would you be a snitch? Actively collaborate? At what point would you draw a line and say no further, or is it survive at any cost? Because the cost is other people. Always.
        ………………………..

        *So true*, Jack. It does not end at conversion–it just starts there.

        I think a lot of us would consider desperately converting at sword point–especially if that sword was not pointed just at our own necks, but at those of loved ones or innocent children.

        But in most cases being willing to choke out the Shehada and arse-lift in a Mosque is *not* enough.

        We’ve all seen cases of ISIS and Boko Haram and other Jihad groups making people murder their loved ones to prove their loyalty:

        “Boys snatched from their families by ISIS reveal how they were ordered to kill their parents after being trained as child soldiers… and would have their legs broken if they refused”

        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3395916/Boys-snatched-families-ISIS-reveal-ordered-kill-parents-trained-child-soldiers-legs-broken-refused.html

        More:

        People in the concentration camps, grey and red ones in the 20th century, knew something about these moral choices, choices most people never have to make. Christians have in their whole early history these stark choices, deny their faith or be killed for it. The apostles. Christ. Some Chrisians forget that, they decide Christ told his followers they would be rewarded with riches and ease, not that the world would hate them. Solzhenitsyn knew something about stark moral choices, choices between human dignity and conscience and survival– life itself at all costs. In the Gulags.

        “This is simply a turn of phrase, survive at any price…this is the great fork of camp life. From this point the roads go to the left and to the right.

        “One of them will rise and the other will descend. If you go to the right you lose your life and if you go to the left you lose your conscience. One’s own order to oneself ‘Survive!’ is the natural splash of a living person. Who does not wish to survive? Who does not have the right to survive?…but simply to survive does not mean yet at any price. “At any price” means at the price of someone else.

        One must survive at any price. And what that means is: One must become a stool pigeon, betray one’s comrades. And thereby get oneself set up comfortably. Add perhaps even get time off sentence…it was granted to me to carry away from my prison years…this essential experience: how a human being becomes evil and how good…”

        Best to think about what one is living for to know what is worth dying for.
        ………………………..

        Grim stuff–but very important. I think we all have to consider how far we would go, and what the moral consequences would really be.

        If I thought I would be able to engage in some sort of resistance–or even to be able to later escape–I would play along if I had no other options–to a point. But I could not betray or harm others, no matter the cost to myself.

        Of course, we hope we can fight back against Islam before it ever comes to this point.

        That so many of these high-school students in Italy seem to be fine with rolling over without a fight–or even much of a qualm–is *deeply* disturbing.

        • Jack Diamond says

          Apr 21, 2016 at 10:56 pm

          Thanks for that link graven. Not only do the demands never stop but only escalate, no one, including a jihadist, respects a coward and they will be treated accordingly.

        • gravenimage says

          Apr 22, 2016 at 12:24 am

          I certainly wasn’t congratulating the vile Jihadists for their savagery, Jack–especially towards children.

          But yes–they don’t just want us to profess Islam, they want us to be just as barbaric as they are–or they want us dead.

          The other option, of course, is to put up the kind of staunch resistance that makes them back down.

          The West has done it before–and if we regain our sense of reality and self-respect, can do so again.

        • TheBuffster says

          Apr 25, 2016 at 1:02 pm

          Gravenimage said: “Grim stuff–but very important. I think we all have to consider how far we would go, and what the moral consequences would really be.

          “If I thought I would be able to engage in some sort of resistance–or even to be able to later escape–I would play along if I had no other options–to a point. But I could not betray or harm others, no matter the cost to myself.

          “Of course, we hope we can fight back against Islam before it ever comes to this point.

          “That so many of these high-school students in Italy seem to be fine with rolling over without a fight–or even much of a qualm–is *deeply* disturbing.”

          I agree with everything you said wholeheartedly, except the last line.

          First of all, these kids were 13 years old, and they undoubtedly figure that they’d be no match in a fight, on-the-spot, against Islamic State soldiers. I doubt that most kids of that age would think about what conversion might mean – that they’d be required to show their loyalty by doing terrible things like killing innocent people for IS. If they had been told *that*, I suspect a lot of them would have given more nuanced answers. Without being told that, they probably imagined they’d convert and then be left alone.

          I suspect most were thinking that if they pretended to convert that would buy them time to either escape or live to fight another day when resistance might have a better chance of success. That’s a very normal thought for a person in that situation, even for kids. Refusing to convert wouldn’t be active resistance, but passive martyrdom. Once you’re dead, you can’t fight another day, or escape another day. What you’re doing there is giving up your life *without a fight*. I see no reason to assume that the kids did not have that idea in mind. The fact that we weren’t told what was going on in their minds means we can only make assumptions about why they chose as they did. Assumptions aren’t facts.

          I’m rather annoyed at Robert, because he introduced this article with this assumption: “These children are the products of a relativistic, materialistic, hedonistic culture that has relentlessly indoctrinated them with the ideas that all belief systems and cultures are of equal value and are essentially interchangeable, and that it is wrong and “racist” to oppose even an authoritarian and violent ideology, and that defense of one’s homeland and culture is likewise “racist,” and that Judeo-Christian Western civilization is itself uniquely “racist” and responsible for the great majority of the evil in the world. So what do they expect?”

          He’s telling us what’s going on in the kids’ heads without having asked the kids. But one doesn’t have to have been indoctrinated in PC to decide to fake conversion to avoid immediate massacre and buy time. And it doesn’t sound to me that their teacher was being PC about telling the students how monstrous IS is. It didn’t sound like IS was being portrayed as anything but a pack of villains. But Robert’s assumptions set a tone for the article that could lead the reader to see these young people in a more cynical light than may be deserved.

          I think the questions that the kids should have been asked are: “How far would you go to save your life from IS? Would you convert to Islam? If so, why would you choose to convert, aside from saving your life? If IS required you to kill someone to prove your loyalty, would you do it to save your life? Would you torture people for IS to save your life?

          These are the kinds of questions that would tell you the important things. Asking *only* if they would convert to save their lives or the lives of loved ones tells us too little to draw accurate conclusions.

    • Ernestis Markonios Tsavaris says

      Apr 20, 2016 at 6:37 pm

      Cowards , you are sheep ,

    • TH says

      Apr 21, 2016 at 2:50 am

      You have no principles. You have no true convictions worth defending. You are a coward. If you hide your true beliefs to save your skin, then these beliefs are secondary to you. Jesus said: What does it profit a man to gain the whole world if he loses the life of his soul? Do you know that apostasy is one one of the gravest sins. Millions of Christain martyrs thrughout the centuries were willing to give up some time in this life and be true to their convictions rather than deny their faith and end up in eternal damnation.

      • Ted Tyler says

        Apr 21, 2016 at 5:08 am

        “Your eyes are full of hate, TH, that is good. Hate keeps a man alive. It gives him strength.(then a few scenes later:)……….What is your name TH….?”
        Nameless one, I am truly impressed with your courage. It is right up there with that of Martin Luther and Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

        Now we see the relentless progression of Islamization engulfing our society. There is a tsunami coming. A wall of water 30 feet high. Will you stand on the beach and thrash away at it with your sword? Better to take the high ground, regroup, reject the way of Conan, and ask what would, Pavlov, Freud, Maslow and Machiavelli do? But wait! You are a Christian. You could kneel on the beach and pray. Of course it did not do much good for the defenders of Constantinople in 1543 – but it may be worth a shot. So other than having faith in Jesus, do you have any practical, workable plan for stopping Islamization?

        • Jack Diamond says

          Apr 21, 2016 at 9:45 am

          Back to the article, if the people are overrun by ISIS the blame lies first and foremost with those charged with defending and protecting them, not the victims, certainly not the children, forced to make choices at the point of a sword/gun, in this scenario. It is the kids not being able to even imagine there is something to fight for that is appalling here, or that 13-year olds are as cynical and absent of idealism as presumably their parents.

          What is it Freud would do? Write a book?

        • Ted Tyler says

          Apr 21, 2016 at 10:12 am

          Freud would realize that the children’s brains are not fully developed and wait for them to grow up. Pavlov would state that the children would do what they have been conditioned to do.

        • gravenimage says

          Apr 21, 2016 at 5:43 pm

          Jack Diamond wrote:

          It is the kids not being able to even imagine there is something to fight for that is appalling here, or that 13-year olds are as cynical and absent of idealism as presumably their parents.
          …………………………..

          Yes–under other circumstances one might expect kids like these to be flush with bravado, saying they’d kick the asses of anyone who came to their doors to threaten them and their families–that they have been rendered so cynical and passive is utterly appalling, and does not bode well for the future.

        • Fessitude says

          Apr 21, 2016 at 7:45 pm

          “Now we see the relentless progression of Islamization engulfing our society. There is a tsunami coming.”

          Well, one man’s tsunami is another man’s “The problem won’t become so bad that we will ever have to contemplate actually deporting all Muslims…”

    • Gungadin says

      Apr 21, 2016 at 5:50 am

      What the HELL has happened to BACKBONE? Has the world become so politically correct and become so “WUSSY-FIED ” that there exists no one with COURAGE in their hearts and minds?

      I have two words for those goat humping hovel living “animals” that rape, pillage and destroy decent people and places and those words are not “Good Luck”…..the first word starts with the letter F……the second word starts with the letter “Y”……

      • blitz2b says

        Apr 21, 2016 at 8:45 am

        Osama bin ladin said given a choice people would chose a ” strong horse over a weak one any day”…. I guess to many young people might matters more than upholding traditional values or religious truths.
        When our young see their leaders politicians and even religious swaying to appease Islam, how else do we expect them to respond?

        • Ted Tyler says

          Apr 21, 2016 at 9:03 am

          There may be some truth to: “swaying to appease Islam”, but I think that for here in Boston, the majority of people actually believe that Islam is a religion of peace and that the Islamic terrorists are not followers of the true Islam. They believe that Islamophobia is a bad thing, that all religions are good, that Islam is a religion, and that everyone should try to do the right thing. They do not even see the enemy, so they have no means to fight it. Thus the Islamic propaganda machine has done its job too well.

      • blitz2b says

        Apr 21, 2016 at 11:17 am

        @Tyler “here in Boston, the majority of people actually believe that Islam is a religion of peace…”

        Isn’t that pathetic in this age of “enlightenment”? Where have our universities gone wrong? Why is our culture and tradition which is far superior to the evil of Islam seen as a moral equivalent to it?

        Why have we stopped our children from critical thinking? How in the world do educated people see this ideology of death and destruction as peaceful id’s beyond comprehension.

        Is it too late for the west to make amends now? Are we doomed to be destroyed by a foreign culture of barbarian values that sets us back centuries once we surrender to it?

        I simply cannot understand how we as a superior civilization that has achieved so much in terms of freedoms of person and thought, can sit back and sacrifice it all on the altar of political correctness .. God help us!

  3. Keith says

    Apr 20, 2016 at 4:10 pm

    They obviously believe that they could convert to Islam and continue to lead the life style that they are currently living.

    They are in for a massive shock.

    • Angemon says

      Apr 20, 2016 at 4:17 pm

      That would be my bet as well.

    • dumbledoresarmy says

      Apr 20, 2016 at 8:25 pm

      We are talking about twenty-three thirteen-year-olds. And we don’t know whether they represent *all* thirteen-year-olds in all of Europe. I am married to a statistician and I know what he’d say about this ‘poll’ and its sample size. *Which town*? Which suburb? Does it accurately reflect the entire population of Italy or of Europe.

      There is still time, just a little time, for these kids to wake up.

      Instead of shrieking at them and writing them off as dead and done for: PRAY FOR THEM.

      The people who need to wake up fast are their *parents*. So pray for them, too!

      • SpiritOf1683 says

        Apr 21, 2016 at 1:43 am

        Their parents are probably no different from them, as they’ll have been spoonfed the ‘all religions are essentially the same’ hogwash.

      • Green Infidel says

        Apr 21, 2016 at 2:56 am

        A friend of mine also says he would convert if needed to marry a Muslim woman. Another HAS actually converted, while I’ve got strong suspicions about a third (travelling around the Mid-East, knowing Arabic, knowing the 99 names of Allah, that kind of thing).

        I know what you’re saying, and it’s probably less than 90% nationwide, but I fear that it may be indicative of a nationwide trend. And bear in mind that Italy is one of the most devout Christian countries in Western Europe… what would be the equivalent percentage in France, England, Germany? I fear it would be only higher. But yes, I agree it’s important to pray for those kids, and for Europe in general.

        • Kepha says

          Apr 21, 2016 at 5:43 am

          Italay one of the most devoutly Christian countries in Western Europe? Allow me to introduce myself: Uncle Kepha is the Grand Mufti of Mecca–and I’m not even a Muslim. Maybe it’s 3 out of a hundred Italians are devout; as opposed to 1.75 out of a hundred elsewhere?

          This ought to be a wake-up that secularization is a very frail bulwark against Islamicization. The question of whether your neighbor worships one God or a thousand can indeed pick your pocket, break your leg, or get your throat slit. We are learning this the hard way.

        • Mark Swan says

          Apr 21, 2016 at 1:56 pm

          You Got It Kepha

        • gravenimage says

          Apr 21, 2016 at 5:49 pm

          Kepha, Thomas Jefferson clearly made the distinction between faiths that are benign, and those that would indeed “pick your pocket or break your leg”.

          The latter describes nothing so well as it does Islam.

        • Fessitude says

          Apr 21, 2016 at 7:49 pm

          “bear in mind that Italy is one of the most devout Christian countries in Western Europe”

          Actually, large swaths of Italian society have been profoundly (albeit not uniformly) secularized for at least 150 years. Many Westerners have a kind of clichéd caricature of Italians as pasta-cooking vino-bibbing devout Catholics in peasant garb or something.

      • gravenimage says

        Apr 21, 2016 at 5:47 pm

        And Dumbledore’s Army, don’t forget the two brave kids who said they *would* resist–not just to the threat of ISIS, but in the face of peer pressure from the students who said they would supinely convert.

        Even here, there is some cause for hope.

  4. SpiritOf1683 says

    Apr 20, 2016 at 4:28 pm

    What this proves is that the West, and particularly Western Europe has lost its spine. That survey in Italy could have been conducted almost anywhere in the West and we would have seen more or less the same results. It is as if nothing is worth fighting for anymore. Had the World War I generation been around, they would have been thoroughly ashamed of our cowardice, and our surviving World War II vets must almost be wondering why they bothered, if they’re aware of this.

    Back in 1943, the likes of the Waffen SS did come knocking, and many people took up arms against them. They resisted and didn’t submit, especially in Eastern Europe. We saw the Warsaw Risings. Today’s youngsters would be incapable of such a feat, as many combatants in the Warsaw Rising were as young as 12 or 13 years old. They wouyld be ashamed of these youngsters.

    • simon says

      Apr 20, 2016 at 4:39 pm

      We no longer have the backing of the government, the police force and the law. Why should I care if they come knocking and all I have to do is utter a shitty sentence about mo and his alter ego?

      If someone of strength shows up and starts kicking some muslim ass then I will fight along side him, until then I’ll keep practicing the shittyhada.

      • gravenimage says

        Apr 21, 2016 at 6:01 pm

        simon wrote:

        We no longer have the backing of the government, the police force and the law. Why should I care if they come knocking and all I have to do is utter a shitty sentence about mo and his alter ego?
        ………………………….

        The examples Spiritof1683 was using did not involve governmental backing. Those governments had either fallen to the Nazis or were collaborating with them.

        These were people who decided to resist *on their own*.

        And no–uttering the Shehada is in most cases *not* enough. Would you be willing to betray other Infidels? Would you be willing to harm them yourself if ordered? Because that is indeed likely what it would come to.

        More:

        If someone of strength shows up and starts kicking some muslim ass then I will fight along side him, until then I’ll keep practicing the shittyhada.
        ………………………….

        If someone of strength “shows up”? Where do you think brave people come from? Robert Spencer and the other Anti-Jihadists here have decided to make a stand, and they have made that decision *themselves*.

        You can decide to make such a stand yourself–or you can just keep on practicing the Shehada…

        Why should you care? The problem is that it seems you do not. You can change that if you want to–if you think that there is anything worth defending.

        • SpiritOf1683 says

          Apr 22, 2016 at 1:42 am

          These aren’t resisting. They’re melting before a hypothetical question.

    • TH says

      Apr 21, 2016 at 2:54 am

      A young 14 year old Mexiican boy, José del Río, is about to be canonized a saint as a martyr for his faith. He told his parents that a little longer in this life is nothing compared to eternal happiness in heaven. For his story see the movie Cristiada. He is only one of many child martyrs in the history of Christianity.

      • Ted Tyler says

        Apr 21, 2016 at 5:26 am

        Be aware that if your 14 year old Mexican boy was raised in Afghanistan, it is likely that instead of being indoctrinated into the relatively peaceful religion of Christianity, he would have been indoctrinated into the Islamic version of the Afterlife and would probably have been a suicide bomber.

    • Fessitude says

      Apr 21, 2016 at 7:53 pm

      Better than “spine” demonstrated by saying “I would never convert even if ISIS held a sword to my neck!” would be a demonstration of informed awareness about Islam. Once an informed awareness about Islam catches cultural fire and spreads throughout the West — aided by the crucial boost of becoming “cool” to be anti-Islam rather than “uncool” to be a “bigoted Islamophobic hater” — the battle will be more than half won. If, that is, this happens soon enough…

      • Angemon says

        Apr 21, 2016 at 8:49 pm

        Fessitude posted:

        “Better than “spine” ”

        Why the sneer quotes, voeg? That’s exactly what ‘having a spine’ means – having an ideal and defending it with their lives if needed.

  5. Resist says

    Apr 20, 2016 at 4:30 pm

    Without hesitation, 23 students declared that they would convert to Islam, only two resisted……!!! If they “think” that way, they aré spineless with no future. Very sad for them.

    • SpiritOf1683 says

      Apr 20, 2016 at 5:22 pm

      If they think that way, their future will be set out for them in Tom Kratman’s novel Caliphate.

  6. Westman says

    Apr 20, 2016 at 4:37 pm

    Out of the mouth of babes: Islam means fear and submission.

    A phobia is irrational fear. This isn’t Islamophobia, this is IslamoReality from watching the IslamoProgeny. They are just children and already know that Islamic Ideology is dangerous to their lives.

    It’s not paranoia when the doctrine calls for the enslavement of the Infidel and annihilation of the Jews. Oh, yes, I forget, they’re not REAL Muslims. I hope the fundamentalists won’t mind if I hold off on that left handshake.

  7. SpiritOf1683 says

    Apr 20, 2016 at 4:49 pm

    This echoes what Alexander Solzhenitsyn famously said: “Should one point out, that since ancient times, a decline in courage has been considered the beginning of the end”. This is how civilizations fall, when they produce people who aren’t up to the task of protecting and defending them. Over 20 million people lost their lives to gain the freedoms we enjoy today only a lifetime ago, and since the start of the Jihad, around 75 generations representing many more millions.

    • TH says

      Apr 21, 2016 at 2:59 am

      Notice how the Iraqi Christians were unwilling to submit to Islam. Of course, they know what Islam is and they have no intention of submitting. They left their homes and walked through the desert to get away from it. Their own muslim neighbors squealed on them telling the ISIS savages which houses belonged to Christians. They have dignity and would that the Eurpean cowards would learn from them.

    • Kepha says

      Apr 21, 2016 at 5:46 am

      Our civilization sees Solzhenitsyn as a crank, and admires the despicable Bertrand Russell, who infamously said he’d rather live on his knees than die on his knees. Now we add that our hollow men would rather lived with their empty, disbelieving heads pressed to the floor and their butts in the air.

      • gravenimage says

        Apr 21, 2016 at 6:05 pm

        Not all of us, Kepha.

  8. Voytek Gagalka says

    Apr 20, 2016 at 5:22 pm

    They have NO idea with what they are playing with! Convert to Islam? Do they realize that it is only ONE WAY street and no withdrawal possible, similarly like in mafia: once you joined there is no exit except by death.

    • Simon says

      Apr 21, 2016 at 2:31 am

      Even when you join you are expected to die for allah. If you refuse to carry out a suicide bombing when asked you will treated as an apostate, in other words you are ‘Not Muslim Enough’ and you will be executed.
      Those very three words ‘Not Muslim Enough’ will ensure that Islam will devour itself when there are no non-muslims left.

  9. Berengaria says

    Apr 20, 2016 at 5:25 pm

    In the US, we have one in the WH, who appears to be Muslim & the Muslim brotherhood are a part of OUR government. The DHS is filled with them, & also, the BO Pentagon & Military. Black conversions have made both Black & Muslims a duo of Terrorism. Little Children are being taught in the public schools to ape Muslim acts, no wonder they would submit to Islam. It’s already HERE IN AMERICA & IS TAKING OVER WITH THE HELP
    OF OUR OWN GOVERNMENT.

  10. Wellington says

    Apr 20, 2016 at 6:15 pm

    No guts no Western Civilization.

    • Mark Swan says

      Apr 21, 2016 at 2:13 pm

      That’s It

  11. Paul Klenoff says

    Apr 20, 2016 at 6:17 pm

    The way the question was described here makes it seem that the students were to understand that the choice being offered was one of martyrdom for their religion or conversion with the benefit of survival.

    I see nothing surprising in the great majority of presumably rational student choosing not to die.

    Had they been given the option of being supplied with weapons which would provide them with the capability to fight Isis, even if it meant risking their lives, I think that the numbers in this survey would have been much different.

  12. dumbledoresarmy says

    Apr 20, 2016 at 6:34 pm

    Two out of the 25 said NO. They were from practising Catholic families.

    There is always a remnant.

    Let’s pray – and thank God! – for those two kids who stood out; who set an example; their refusal will – I hope – make their classmates think about things and, maybe, a little further down the track, find some courage and wisdom and faith.

    • Lexa456 says

      Apr 21, 2016 at 2:59 am

      I’m sorry to disappoint you, but the youth of today are not nearly as far as their previous generations. The educational level decreases in Europe continuously (also because of the higher proportion of migrants from developing countries, since they have no discipline or intelligence). In Germany there was a few weeks ago, the debate about whether the high school degree has the same value as 10-20 years ago. The requirements to it steadily decline, hence the “dumbest” get their chance at the higher education entrance qualification. In addition, young people are media-addicted and contaminated zombies that probably never have read a freaking book since their childhood days. It’s sad, but probably true: The only two students who have expressed a contrary opinion, have NOT motivated the others “to think”. If anything, they most likely have presented themselves as new potential victims of bullying.

      If I were those students teacher I would have asked them right away if they would like to watch their sisters and mothers being enslaved and raped by the jihadist’s, because that is what most certainly would happen to them. That may have helped them to reconsider.

      • Kepha says

        Apr 21, 2016 at 5:48 am

        It’s happened here in the USA–and a big part of the issue is that much of what schools do is find ways to avoid lawsuit rather than teach.

    • gravenimage says

      Apr 21, 2016 at 6:08 pm

      Hear, hear, Dumbledore’s Army!

  13. jimmi says

    Apr 20, 2016 at 7:08 pm

    The 90% kids are wrong. They will not save their lives. Or they will save a worthless life, a life of a slave, of a coward. There is no safety or protection in cowardice or rendition.
    Their honor or dignity will be lost, mind you, following a 7th century pedophile rapist warlord and all the frustration and censorship that implies.

    They are 13-year-olds… but that fear is deeply installed in large segments of the muslim population.

  14. Norwegian says

    Apr 20, 2016 at 7:11 pm

    This winter I watched a documentary about Easter Island…

    They got so obsessed about building big gods in stone that they cut down all vegetation to do it. Then they turned on their gods and each other as hunger came…no wood to build boats from, no fishing…all birdlife gone.

    One researcher said

    “They must have known it when they cut down the last tree”

    That sent spiders, chills and ice down my spine..

    Yes, they knew…Just like all those people out there now who build big castles of air (as we say in Norway)…no matter what! And the know deep down!

    🙁

  15. dumbledoresarmy says

    Apr 20, 2016 at 7:21 pm

    Time for the church in Italy to start teaching its children about the Martyrs of Otranto.

    http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/161401?&eng=y

    Summer Reading: How the Eight Hundred Men of Otranto Saved Rome

    (I hope the link still works).

    • dumbledoresarmy says

      Apr 20, 2016 at 7:22 pm

      Just checked. The link is still active. Click on it, and read, if you do not already know the story.

      • heather says

        Apr 20, 2016 at 9:03 pm

        I read the link sir…what a fresh reminder that we stand on the shoulders of giants…but also that it seems piety and zeal is lost on so many now in the west…may God bring revival that we may love Christ even unto death.
        To live is Christ to die is gain…

      • Fessitude says

        Apr 21, 2016 at 8:03 pm

        Italy is teeming with historical reminders of the millennial trauma and terror of the Saracens. Practically anywhere you turn — just walk out of your hostel and take a left, you’ll bump into some vestige of the perennial jihad against us. One doesn’t have to be in Rome; even in a sleepy village like, oh say, Praiano on the Amalfi coast, while taking a walk to take in the view of the sea one might see…

        “Dominating the bay … a tall and slightly lopsided cylindrical tower called Torre a Mare — the Sea Tower — one of several built in the Middle Ages during Amalfi’s darkest chapter. Savaged by Saracen pirates who sailed in spreading terror, kidnapping women and ransacking villages, the coast endured widespread turmoil.”

        Nearly the entire West — and certainly those areas on the “bloody borders” of Islam, from Greece through eastern and southeastern Europe, to Italy, France and Spain — bears the deep scars and broken bones of the Mohammedan Long War against us. A war that Muslims had to put on the back burner, due to historical exigencies beyond their control in the 18th and 19th centuries (pace their jihad on the high seas of piracy nipping at Europe’s underbelly); a war they are now reviving more and more. By the 20th century, we forgot our Enemy of Yore. Will we remember in time?

        • gravenimage says

          Apr 22, 2016 at 12:41 am

          It will take plenty of reminding.

    • gravenimage says

      Apr 21, 2016 at 6:12 pm

      That Pope Benedict XVI affirmed their martyrdom makes me think all the more of him.

  16. dumbledoresarmy says

    Apr 20, 2016 at 8:11 pm

    Before anyone spends too much time condemning Italy and the Italians and all of Europe on the basis of one snap poll conducted by one teacher in one school in Italy on a sample size of *25 13 year olds* and concluding that this is proof! proof! that ‘because Europe has become godless they will all meekly convert to Islam’ and “if Europeans were all practising christians they would refuse to convert to Islam” stop and bear this in mind: all across North Africa, and across the Levant, and in Anatolia, and Egypt too, populations that were NOT modern post-enlightenment sceptics and secularists, that were *solidly* Christian and had been *solidly* Christian, practising and devout and instructed, for generation after generation, *centuries*, became either totally or majority Islamic after they were subjugated by the Ummah or Mohammedan Mob. Does that mean that *all* those people ‘weren’t really *real* Christians’ to begin with? Or does it just mean, sadly, that, being human, most of them – either at once or in successive generations of being subjected from birth to the horribly-abusive Dhimma system – simply *broke* – shattered under pressure, pressure applied day in and day out for the whole of their lives, pressure such as only a few rare human beings can ever withstand? The ones who resisted bravely, during the initial takeover (i.e those who refused to become either Muslims or Dhimmis) and then other resisters – those who bucked the ‘Rules for Dhimmis’ – who popped up here and there *throughout* the entire subsequent period of Muslim rule, were KILLED INSTANTLY and therefore, in most cases, **left no descendants** (or, worse, their minor children left orphaned by the parents’ martyrdom were seized by the Muslims at a young age and were broken in pieces psychologically and Islamised).

    “Let anyone who thinks he stands beware lest he fall”.

    • Simon says

      Apr 21, 2016 at 2:53 am

      In the time of the Crusades I wonder how many Christians in European lands said that if the muslims come for us we will convert? Probably none. But today, Christians are saying yes we will convert if threatened.
      As one commenter pointed out – Alexander Solzhenitsyn famously said: “Should one point out, that since ancient times, a decline in courage has been considered the beginning of the end”.

      Todays Christians in Europe no longer have the courage. So to point out that todays Christians are no different to past Christians is wrong. Past Christians did have the courage to fight, they had the courage to remain Christians when subdued by Islamic invaders. Many did convert for convenience sake, but only over many centuries. Todays Christians will simply convert without so much as a whimper

      • Mark A says

        Apr 21, 2016 at 3:24 am

        Note that the only ones who said they wouldn’t convert were Christians; Catholics to be specific.

        I’m thinking the word “Christians” in your post should be replaced with the word “secularists” and we’d probably have a more accurate indication of the true state of affairs.

      • BC says

        Apr 21, 2016 at 9:17 am

        Anybody who dies for a non existent being is just stupid. I would convert and then act as a spy damaging them from within, just like they do. You could trump up some charges of apostrophe(sic)
        against them and that would get rid of a goodly number of them! they love executing people so
        help them along

      • sencit says

        Apr 21, 2016 at 10:37 am

        “Today’s Christians will simply convert without so much as a whimper.”

        That is broad-brushing! How many Christians do you know? I know many Christians, myself included,who would find death preferable!

      • Champ says

        Apr 21, 2016 at 7:17 pm

        Simon wrote:

        “Todays Christians will simply convert without so much as a whimper”

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

        I completely disagree, and the facts prove otherwise …

        https://youtu.be/oySB4uw4n18

    • gravenimage says

      Apr 22, 2016 at 12:48 am

      Dumbledore’s Army wrote, quoting 1 Corinthians 10:12:

      “Let anyone who thinks he stands beware lest he fall”.
      ……………………..

      Yes–it is easy for us to sit behind our keyboards in our warm homes and think we are brave.

      Some here have already been tested by fire–many of us have not.

      • Angemon says

        Apr 22, 2016 at 7:34 pm

        gravenimage posted:

        “Yes–it is easy for us to sit behind our keyboards in our warm homes and think we are brave.

        Some here have already been tested by fire–many of us have not.

        I know, right?

  17. D says

    Apr 20, 2016 at 8:56 pm

    Europe has lost all sense of Pride.

  18. Ian H says

    Apr 20, 2016 at 10:07 pm

    How the question was presented matters. If ISIS was “in my home” and the choice presented to me was was convert or die, I’d probably convert. Death ends all options, including options like running away and fighting later.

  19. Stephen says

    Apr 20, 2016 at 10:33 pm

    With information like this ISIS would be crazy not to invade tomorrow. How tragic it is to see the seat of Christendom to have come to this. I wonder how long their conversion will last when they begin to see their parents heads cut off with butter knives for not converting? Pathetic!

  20. simpleton1 says

    Apr 20, 2016 at 10:47 pm

    No value of their own culture and in total their own history, to give a perspective of life, and the previous struggles, and the high points.

    Identify the problem, and some of the reasons..

    “ A landmark was set by the Christian Chronica Prophetica (883–884), [160 years after the first invasion], a document stressing the Christian and Muslim cultural and religious divide in Iberia and the necessity to drive the Muslims out.” ,
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconquista

    A full translation of “Chronica Prophetica” .
    http://pages.pomona.edu/~kbw14747/prophchr.htm
    Where one can go easily to the heading of “HISTORY OF MUHAMMAD”, (a long paragraph) where there is a brief summation of just some of the deeds of Muhammad.

    Indeed he accomplished many sins of various kinds which are not recorded in this book. [section is like a long paragraph] This much is written so that those reading will understand how much might have been written here.

    It is the calling out of very much of what Muhammad is about, to name the difference, and in those days it was naturally from an old style Christian perspective.

    The problem was named, and despite hitches, politics, “Chronica Prophetica” would have been as a guiding light, to illuminate why muslim do not fit in.
    It was a further 600 years, before the job was completed, but always with the knowledge and saying exactly that islam was incompatible with Christianity.

    In today’s terms there is no getting around that islam, being in considerable part an ideology, is Not compatible with democracy!

    The other major part of our problem is also how to expose the “double think” in our institutions, and through out the general public. A small step in part calling out Mohammad and so exposing islam’s double think, and simultaneously the PC&MC etc “double thinks”.

    That is also where “free speech” that assures democracy, is also an Achilles’s heel to islam, so we must defend it, and guard it.at all costs.
    That is why islam is quietly pushing a major attack on all versions of “free speech”, using any angle that will aid them, feminism, LGBT etc.,

  21. Mo says

    Apr 20, 2016 at 11:01 pm

    “90% of 13-year-olds at Italian school would convert to Islam if the Islamic State came to their home”

    Evil little monsters. Dump them in ISIS controlled territory. Let’s see how much they love it then.

    • gravenimage says

      Apr 22, 2016 at 12:50 am

      Mo, I think we need to teach our children, and hearten them–not reject them with disgust. Many adults, I’m afraid, would react in just the same way.

  22. Carmine R. Fragione says

    Apr 21, 2016 at 12:38 am

    Liberty is hard to keep, because Terror is an effective Despot

  23. SpiritOf1683 says

    Apr 21, 2016 at 1:54 am

    If this were Sweden it would be 24 or perhaps all 25.

  24. Iggy B says

    Apr 21, 2016 at 1:58 am

    I wonder what percentage of lapsed Jews and Christians are re-thinking that choice these days?

    It’s too bad so many generations in the West have no clue what the scriptures of those two religions have to say…

  25. Charli Main says

    Apr 21, 2016 at 2:50 am

    Lets put it this way, modern Italians are a far cry from their Roman ancestors.———

  26. Mark A says

    Apr 21, 2016 at 3:22 am

    Their Roman ancestors would be disgusted with this pack of cowards.

    But then their cowardice seems to be shared by many Europeans these days. I can’t help thinking Europe is doomed and will surrender to Islam within a few decades.

    Depressing thought, but all I’m seeing from Europe is this kind of abject cowardice and a seemingly total unwillingness to stand up in defense of western civilization.

  27. particolor says

    Apr 21, 2016 at 3:36 am

    You will find that Most 13 Year Old do NOT want their head chopped off for refusing ! 🙁 🙁

    • gravenimage says

      Apr 21, 2016 at 6:16 pm

      Yes–we have to remember these *are kids*. It is up to a society’s adults to keep them safe.

  28. UNCLE VLADDI says

    Apr 21, 2016 at 4:29 am

    Scum always rises to the top, and the education system is no different.

    This is how criminals “think” to create their alibis to excuse their crimes.

    http://unclevladdi.blogspot.ca/2016/04/victimology-studies-lead-to-death-by.html

    • gravenimage says

      Apr 21, 2016 at 7:03 pm

      Horrifying story, Uncle Vladdi.

      And as a Berkeley alum I thought I’d heard most academic bs, but the appalling concept of the “Victim-Offender Continuum” was a new one on me. This is a sub-set of “Restorative Justice”, which I am all too familiar with.

      How this would work in practice in this case is for the victim’s mother to sit down with her daughter’s murderer, tell him how much the loss of her child hurt her, and what a nice person she was, her hopes for the future, etc; the killer would pretend to feel bad, and might suggest he make “restoration” by doing something along the lines of mentoring some young thugs. Then, with luck, he’d just walk.

      “Victim-Offender Mediation: A National Perspective”

      https://www.ncjrs.gov/ovc_archives/reports/96517-gdlines_victims-sens/guide4.html

      Things aren’t quite that far gone in Canada yet–but in some cases they aren’t all that far away, either.

      We saw how this “Justice and Reconciliation” process worked in Rwanda, where tearful victims and their loved ones faced smirking killers, who got to relive their crimes before walking off scot-free in most cases.

      Those who resisted the “reconciliation” process have often been harassed and worse by the government.

  29. Kasey says

    Apr 21, 2016 at 6:20 am

    Those Italian stats. are really hard to believe. Could it have anything to do with the average Italian’s disposition towards the Pope and the RC church in general?

    Of course anyone who criticizes Islam is often seen by the politically correct as Islamophobic and a bigot? ……

    But they’d have to be kidding! What is really happening is that most fair-minded people still aren’t seeing “Islam in Action” for what it really is: A discriminatory, intolerant, deceptive, violent and lethal ideology which masquerades as a religion of peace and harmony, as a giant con!

    It’s ISLAMOREALITY in all its forms that everyone now needs to see and understand and thus base their attitudes towards it. Those five negative adjectives above are really the five pillars of Islam but Muslims will never admit to it out of fear or because of their intense indoctrination..

    Once the whole World has the wisdom and courage openly expose it for what it really is and does, things may change for the better.

    • Ted Tyler says

      Apr 21, 2016 at 7:12 am

      Spot on Kasey. The problem is the remarkable effectiveness of the Islamic propaganda machine. Most people have been brainwashed to believe that “Islam is a religion of Peace” – without any evidence or any study of the history of Islam to support that claim. Then any criticism of Islam has been interpreted as islamophobic, racist hate speech.

      Jihad Watch is a remarkable site. At least 20% of the posters (both Christian and Atheist) are quite knowledgeable and make valuable contributions. But Jihad Watch is not enough. Here we have only documentation as to why Islam is bad and little on the thinking of the Muslim apologist. To do that we need to view debates by knowledgeable Muslims. As stated many times before – (If you wish to defeat your enemy) “Know your enemy and know yourself”

      • gravenimage says

        Apr 21, 2016 at 7:07 pm

        Ted Tyler wrote:

        Spot on Kasey. The problem is the remarkable effectiveness of the Islamic propaganda machine. Most people have been brainwashed to believe that “Islam is a religion of Peace”…
        ………………………..

        This *is* a problem, Ted–but I don’t think these kids thought that the Islamic State would come to their homes with a friendly invitation to experience the “religion of peace”.

        They seemed to have understood that this was a violent offer they could not refuse–or could not refuse without terrible harm to themselves.

      • Jack Diamond says

        Apr 21, 2016 at 11:37 pm

        JW confronts Muslim apologists every time they rear their heads. What “knowledgeable” Muslims having debates do you mean exactly? Do the archives here not contain every deflection imaginable to protect Islam and advance Islam, and respond to them? Does the documentation at JW not deal overwhelmingly with what Muslims believe Islam is, how they act on those beliefs (orders) and what texts and teachings they use to justify those acts?
        How are those things not about knowing your enemy? Is there something about ISIS and their manifestos and why they believe what they believe that has not been up here? Or isn’t in Robert Spencer’s book? Or maybe you mean Tariq Ramadan? Qaradawi? Qutb? I’m not understanding the criticism. I must not know myself.

        • Ted Tyler says

          Apr 22, 2016 at 6:21 am

          Jack, Robert’s site is focused mainly on why Islam is bad and gives example after example as to why this is so. Everything that I have seen posted by Robert makes sense, is verifiable, and true. However, it does not take me into the mind of the terrorist or give an indication as to what motivates a person to accept the doctrine of Islam.

          I heard a lecture by a Muslim apologist. At the end of his talk there was a question and answer period. A girl from the audience ask if she had to wear her head scarf all the time. He answered “If you don’t wear your head scarf then you are displeasing Allah. So you must ask yourself the question: How much do I want to displease Allah”.

          This insight into Muslim thinking was not something that I could get from Robert’s site.

        • Jack Diamond says

          Apr 22, 2016 at 9:42 am

          You might want to explore a site like “Islam Q&A” then, since that’s all you will see there, questions by Muslims and answers from the mullahs. There are libraries of Islamic do dahs from Milestones to The Al Qaeda Reader to al-Awlaki’s Greatest Hits if you can’t get enough Muslim “thinking.” You might also get something out of works by ex-Muslims who know Islam from the “inside” but also know why Islam is bad.

  30. Cameron says

    Apr 21, 2016 at 6:52 am

    They are only 13 years old or thereabouts. Ask some 18-30 year olds the same questions with the same information and then see what the results become.

    • SpiritOf1683 says

      Apr 21, 2016 at 1:52 pm

      I’m sure the average 13 years old Polish or Russian kid knew what the Nazis were like in 1942. If that sample were from Poland, Russia, Serbia, Ukraine, Israel, etc, you can bet that percentage would have been very different.

    • SpiritOf1683 says

      Apr 21, 2016 at 1:58 pm

      Ask 18-30 year old Westerners the same question, and you’ll probably get a similar percentage giving the same answers as what those 13 year olds gave. You’ve perhaps got to go up to 40 or more for a differing percentage.

  31. Norman says

    Apr 21, 2016 at 9:08 am

    http://www.crisismagazine.com/2016/cultural-identity-theft

    Open this link and read. Kilpatrick’s insights are startling.

    • gravenimage says

      Apr 21, 2016 at 7:16 pm

      Thanks for that link, Norman.

      This is bin Laden’s “strong horse” idea.

      Our hating the horrors of Islam is not enough–we have to be not just willing but passionate about defending our own civilized values.

  32. Rufolino says

    Apr 21, 2016 at 9:19 am

    There are several ways in which Italy might feel in tune with the fascistic ISIS. Italy is the birthplace of modern fascism, it was invented in Italy by Mussolini (and borrowed by Hitler).

    There is still a remnant of fascism in Italy and a hankering for it in some right-wing sections. Fascistic conformism, encouraged by the Church, is very noticeable in Italian society.

    Most noticeable is the social unacceptability, even hatred, of gays in Italy, still widely prevailing, and this mood would probably have little quarrel with the current murderous hatred of gays in the Islamic State.

    And throughout modern history, Italy has always shown itself ready to side with whoever wins.

    • gravenimage says

      Apr 21, 2016 at 7:17 pm

      I think the reaction of these kids has more to do with fear of ISIS and lack of personal resolve than it does with some sort of longing for Fascism.

  33. dumbledoresarmy says

    Apr 21, 2016 at 9:49 am

    Here’s my challenge to posters here.

    What good does it do to relentlessly hammer on the theme that there is no hope, no future for Italy or anywhere else in Europe, nothing to be done, it’s all over, ALL Europeans are godless cowards and serves them right if the Muslims kill the lot of them, nah-nah-nah-nah, etc.

    NONE.

    THINK for two seconds together. How much of what anyone here has just posted will do anything at all to help an Italian or a French or German person, or a Scandinavian or a British person, who has found their way to this site, and is beginning to get a handle on how deadly-dangerous Islam is, and is looking for information and **encouragement** and *constructive ideas*, trying to find out what small or bigger things they can *do*? To make a difference?

    I’d rather point them to PEGIDA. I’d rather tell them to join their local church, if they identify as Christian, and use their opportunities to try to wake up their coreligionists. I’d rather tell them to never give up trying to warn and teach their family, friends, workmates. I’d rather tell them to set up a Neighbourhood Watch group. I’d rather tell the able-bodied younger ones among them to join the equivalent of the Home Guard or Territorial Army. Hey, some of the younger European lurkers here might even be thinking of going into the army or the police force…or training as a security guard. If so, I’d say to them – GO FOR IT! Keeping their Islamoawareness tucked away up their sleeve, if necessary, but going into a field where that awareness combined with their formal training might one day make all the difference.

    And to repeat, any *Christian* reading the particular story here posted should be *praying*. Praying for the two kids who said no, they would not convert; and praying for the other 23! And the teacher. And the parents. Now you know their situation, pray! Don’t just write them off as a lost cause. That’s not Christian. That’s FATALISM and Christians should have no truck with it. You don’t even know which town they are in, you don’t know their names, but God knows, and **with God nothing is impossible**.

    Reread Ezekiel 37 and *pray* for Christendom. It’s still there. I think it’s not dead, but sleeping.

    • Angemon says

      Apr 21, 2016 at 12:24 pm

      Great post, DDA.

    • gravenimage says

      Apr 21, 2016 at 7:19 pm

      Hear, hear, DDA!

  34. vcragain says

    Apr 21, 2016 at 10:02 am

    I think the problem is that these kids have grown up in Western comfort and know nothing about the seriousness of fighting for a principle and what that means. They probably also think it’s just a different ‘church’ so what difference does it make if they go to that one instead of the one their parent’s go to – they are not idealistic, and remember most of today’s western kids are growing up with the influence of war games on their gadgets, they think it’s all quite harmless. They haven’t had to wait for anything, nor even suffered from hunger ! I think they are like wealthy kids of former ages, it’s all comparative.
    Also, 13 year old kids are not exactly very worldly wise, they care more what their peers think than anything else, very often choosing whatever the opposite is to their parent’s choice ! I would be rather inclined to ask them again when they get to 25.

    • dumbledoresarmy says

      Apr 21, 2016 at 6:27 pm

      You wrote – “I would be rather inclined to ask them again when they get to 25.”

      Yes.

      And it might be interesting to get some properly-trained statisticians to run a *real* (with anonymous respondents; sample size much bigger and properly-designed to be a roughly representative sample) survey on the same topic, among non-Muslim young people aged 25-30, in a range of European countries.

      I’d be far more interested in what that would show, than in the results from one teacher springing an exercise of this sort on a bunch of 13 year olds in a school classroom.

  35. f c king says

    Apr 21, 2016 at 10:03 am

    Can you blame a 13 year old child, if they say they would convert to islam if ISIS took over their country ? It is their fear of having their heads sawed off, or burned alive, or being forced into sexual slavery ( boys and girls here). It has nothing to do with wanting to be a muslim. I b elieve most of these kids have little, if anything to do with any religion. They fear death, and worse if they are comfronted with forced conversion.

  36. el Cid 2 says

    Apr 21, 2016 at 2:24 pm

    Those of us who would not surrender are right.
    If you submit – what comes next? – Servitude and submission.
    Modern day Turkey was Christian Anatolia. How many Christians are left? Does it matter?
    It does to me.
    Islam is a relentless war machine. It is not an enlightened form of government.
    Better to stand and fight.
    Remember Churchill’s exhortation – Never surrender. Never surrender. Never surrender.

    • particolor says

      Apr 23, 2016 at 1:24 am

      He also said ” Islam in These People is like Rabies in a Dog”

  37. gravenimage says

    Apr 21, 2016 at 4:43 pm

    Survey: 90% of 13-year-olds at Italian school would convert to Islam if the Islamic State came to their home
    ……………………………

    Well, that’s *just terrifying*. They would do nothing to defend their faith and their ideals?

    Kudos to the two students who said they would resist.

    But it seems all too many would just supinely roll over. *Very* disturbing.

    • SpiritOf1683 says

      Apr 21, 2016 at 4:55 pm

      And if they won’t do that, they won’t do anything to defend Western civilization when their turn comes to defend it sometime in the next 10 or 15 years.

    • Fessitude says

      Apr 21, 2016 at 8:15 pm

      The question needs to be refined. “ISIS coming to your home” is rather vague and could mean any number of things. Let’s take just two of the many things it could mean:

      1) You’re all alone because your entire family has been slaughtered, you see ISIS coming down the street, 20 Muslims with AK-47s and swords, nobody else in sight. They surround your house and enter.

      2) ISIS is coming down the street, you and your older brother Giuseppe and your father and uncle have a few guns in the cellar which are handed out to all the men of the family. The ISIS Muslim “come to your home”. What would you do?

      Etc.

      • gravenimage says

        Apr 22, 2016 at 12:53 am

        True.

      • SpiritOf1683 says

        Apr 22, 2016 at 1:48 am

        Scenario 1 – you get the hell out, then regroup just like those escapimngh the Waffen SS and Gestapo 75 or so years ago.

        Scenario 2 – Do what the Maquis and partisans did in World War II.

        • SpiritOf1683 says

          Apr 22, 2016 at 1:52 am

          Get the hell out before you’re surrounded is what should be said. If there’s a vehicle, you’ve got a chance. if they try to stop you, hit top gear, lie low in the seat and ram the accelerator down to the floor. If you send some of them flying at 70 mph, so be it. Better them than me.

        • Fessitude says

          Apr 22, 2016 at 1:46 pm

          I intended (and I thought implied) scenario 1 to include no possibility of escape (unfortunately, not inconceivable).

      • SpiritOf1683 says

        Apr 22, 2016 at 1:57 am

        You have to get out before being surrounded and fight in the open, using the terrain as cover. Didn’t Napoleon say “The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten”? If you stay in the house, you’ve nowhere to go.

  38. Ecosse1314 says

    Apr 21, 2016 at 6:06 pm

    Maybe the results would be different if the children involved were told what…..ahem…..medical operations would be involved in converting.

    • gravenimage says

      Apr 21, 2016 at 7:22 pm

      I think these kids were more concerned about the prospect of having their heads removed than their foreskins.

  39. Ivan Erickson says

    Apr 21, 2016 at 10:39 pm

    From ICE:

    Was this a school for the mentally handicapped then? I would be happy to send the head of this school my essay on the Six irrefutable premises on Christianity Vs the Islamic Faiths, if they request it from me via my email address. This essay has been on this site several times now, and no one has thus far been able to refute so much as one of my premises. My aspiration is to help the poor souls of the Islamic faith, as well as all those of whom are contemplating becoming a member of this sect.

    God bless all mankind with His Spirit of Truth & Light.

    ICE

  40. Stipe says

    Apr 22, 2016 at 1:27 am

    Europe and the Western world world lost its backbone when it decided to abort their babies on mass. No children, no famlies and thus no community only a group of individuals, hard to defend.

    • vcragain says

      Apr 22, 2016 at 6:45 am

      That’s right let’s just all have multiple children and when those poor worn-down mothers die off the fathers will take over and look after the 17 kids he fathered ? Oh yes that works wonderfully well – have you any idea what unlimited babies does to a poor woman – nothing ever recovers. The situation now is totally different, women are not victims of male-dominated sperm dispersal, they have choices, but you are a fool if you think that the reason for small families is ABORTION – no the real reason is the pill and other good forms of birth control (that is conception prevention!), but mainly the pill, which I thanked God for when I already had 4 children and my spouse suffered from a nasty latex allergy (terribly swollen face & hands) .Some people have very limited birth control choices, but you can sit there and preach about all those nasty people who abort babies like mad, because they are wicked ! Narrow minded bigotry and you are a problem !

  41. Nick says

    Apr 22, 2016 at 11:18 am

    Italians are world famous for their YELLOW streak, they are a gutless cowardly lot. They were a joke during WW2.

    So would expect this.

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