Now you’ve got me curious. I was under the impression previously that killing was part and parcel of Islam from the very first, so I’m wondering about that later ‘revelation’ that killing is ok. At first it sounded like you were saying that later ‘revelation’ was saying killing was ok during the holy month, which had been previously been prohibited, but you are explaining it in more general terms than just lifting a prohibition on killing during the holy month, it seems to me. I would very much like to understand this.
Other question: I was under the (probably totally ignorant) presumption that Islam got started by raiding fixed settlements, but here you give an early example of raiding a caravan. Yesterday Robert (Spencer) posted an outstanding history of Christianity/Judaism/Islam (contributed by another writer) that covered several centuries that mentioned a theory that the Dark Ages in Europe were mainly caused by Muslims shutting down trade passing through the Middle East to Europe. So now I’m curious how much of Islam was initially about raiding caravans and how much of it was about raiding fixed settlements?
Peter Charlessays
That and the “Little Ice Age” which lasted until about 1880. Cold gives aid to disease, strife and suffering.
mortimersays
Mary C wrote: ” I would very much like to understand this”
‘This’ doctrine is called ‘abrogation’. It is confusing, because Allah kept changing his mind during the ministry of Mohammed making him look like a forger of revelations. Non-Muslims believe Mohammed was obviously a forger of his own ‘revelations’…a religious con man.
Suspiciously, Mohammed was ‘made to forget’ or to contradict previous revelations that Allah had sent him. This made Mohammed appear to be opportunistic and self-serving. To be sure, a number of Mohammed’s followers (especially Omar and a scribe called Abi Sarh) caught onto Mohammed’s game of abrogation and saw he was producing ‘situational revelation’. Mohammed’s constantly updated revelations pointed to a deity who was confused and no more knowledgeable about the present or future than Mohammed.
Some scholars believe that the contradictory texts in the Koran show there were many hands that wrote the Koran…the earliest parts of the Koran appear to be from a tolerant, peaceful, heretical Christian sect, while the last texts in the Koran appear to have been written by a violent sociopath.
IMHO, ‘abrogation’ is one of the absurd doctrines that prove Islam is of purely human origin. To put it in simply, Mohammed was ‘making stuff up’ and then inventing a new ‘command from God’ every time a new problem came up.
Recommended article about abrogation written by a former Muslim apologist:
(Quote: “It seems to me that a man like myself is limited and needs to learn from his mistakes, and therefore need to provide better commands after earlier commands have not worked. It is not self-evident to me that the creator and sustainer of the universe is like that.” -Farooq Ibrahim)
Kurtsays
The Ahmadiyya Muslim community believe the Quran’s abrogation was meant for previous scripture, not for the Quran itself. Even so, that makes the Quran even more confusing to understand.
linntesays
This is very good! Thanks!
Mary Csays
This explanation and the accompanying hyperlink are very enlightening on abrogation. The example given of the abrogation regarding Islam’s take on whether or not followers of other religions will be rewarded in the afterlife reminds me of how one of Jamie Glazov’s guests explained the steps of Islam’s takeover of a foreign culture: 1) we’re tolerant multi-culturists, you should be too; 2) with increasing sway: wait a minute, you’re not following your own rules, your behavior is worthy of condemnation; 3) even more sway: we’re calling the tune now, your religion is morally and spiritually bankrupt. Oh, and give us some of your money, if you insist on not seeing the light of our religion. See if this doesn’t make a nice analogy to surah’s 2:62, 5:69 and 3:85 cited about 40% of the way down in that article.
Dacriticsays
Even Aisya said that Allah seems to be very keen to please Muhammad.
Angemonsays
The prohibition to kill during the holy month was an Arab custom. During a raid on a Meccan trade caravan (backstory: muhammad was ran out of Mecca because the Meccans did not like him insulting their ancestors and gods. After settling in Medina, muhammad started raiding Meccan caravans), his raiding party killed a Meccan during the holy months. After coming and telling muhammad about it, he initially distanced himself from the act (and his share of the booty), but he eventually got a “revelation” saying that killing during the holy months was grave, however “fitna” (persecution, disbelief) was even graver.
As for the theory that the Dark Ages in Europe were caused by muslims not only shutting down trade but actively invading and attacking Europe, I recommend reading “Mohammed and Charlemagne Revisited: The History of a Controversy” by Emmet Scott.
Mary Csays
Thanks for the clarification on exactly what was being abrogated in this instance. And thanks for the book recommendation. One can get it used on Amazon for only $4.25.
PRCSsays
I noticed in his previous video, and this one, that while accurately describing Islamic history, Qur’an, ahadith, etc., he uses the deceitful term “radicalism”.
I appreciate what he’s doing, but how is compliance “radicalism”?
simpleton1says
Yes I wonder too, the difference of ISIS “radicalism” Also saying that other “moderate” (“innocent”) muslims are being killed.
Then again the videos are exposing what islam truly means, particularly in this video where he personalizes about an Uncle that rationalizes “islam is peace, as an apostate gets 3 days to change his mind”. That often thinking is dualistic opposite thinking,. and that at the end of the day, ordinary muslims, while claiming moderation, are not really that removed from ISIS.
As the videos are to be viewed by many, and particularly by muslims, I have to rationalize that he is slowly and deeply sinking in a crow bar, to raise questions, just what they do they believe and follow. That deep crowbar I hope that starts to crack the dualistic defense of muslims thought/belief patterns.
Leaving slow burning questions and doubt, to make them think more on the basis of their religion, and to eventually to think and consider that Mohammad is really the antithesis of where they may truly want to be.
After all how can you truly defend Mohammad and his teachings, when some of these things are pointed out in islam.
Then I also look, that he is an apostate, and all that must have changed in his life, and the relationships with his family (disowned by father) and community (death threats) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazem_Farraj
Yes pushing for Christianity, but more importantly, to be by free choice.
Also to understand more what islam is about, so like PRCS, appreciate what he is doing.
Mark Asays
Interesting videos.
Robert, it might be an idea to start including his new videos on JW when they are released.
All I know is the more he talks about ISIS, the more I hate Islam. When will this END? Praying for the whole world to wake up!
ffighter 85says
time to unite and be proactive in preserving our freedom as humans, we need to set aside our divisions and simply stand up for humanity. Wake up and deal with the matters at hand, for our childrens sake.
Mary C says
Mr. Farraj,
Now you’ve got me curious. I was under the impression previously that killing was part and parcel of Islam from the very first, so I’m wondering about that later ‘revelation’ that killing is ok. At first it sounded like you were saying that later ‘revelation’ was saying killing was ok during the holy month, which had been previously been prohibited, but you are explaining it in more general terms than just lifting a prohibition on killing during the holy month, it seems to me. I would very much like to understand this.
Other question: I was under the (probably totally ignorant) presumption that Islam got started by raiding fixed settlements, but here you give an early example of raiding a caravan. Yesterday Robert (Spencer) posted an outstanding history of Christianity/Judaism/Islam (contributed by another writer) that covered several centuries that mentioned a theory that the Dark Ages in Europe were mainly caused by Muslims shutting down trade passing through the Middle East to Europe. So now I’m curious how much of Islam was initially about raiding caravans and how much of it was about raiding fixed settlements?
Peter Charles says
That and the “Little Ice Age” which lasted until about 1880. Cold gives aid to disease, strife and suffering.
mortimer says
Mary C wrote: ” I would very much like to understand this”
‘This’ doctrine is called ‘abrogation’. It is confusing, because Allah kept changing his mind during the ministry of Mohammed making him look like a forger of revelations. Non-Muslims believe Mohammed was obviously a forger of his own ‘revelations’…a religious con man.
Suspiciously, Mohammed was ‘made to forget’ or to contradict previous revelations that Allah had sent him. This made Mohammed appear to be opportunistic and self-serving. To be sure, a number of Mohammed’s followers (especially Omar and a scribe called Abi Sarh) caught onto Mohammed’s game of abrogation and saw he was producing ‘situational revelation’. Mohammed’s constantly updated revelations pointed to a deity who was confused and no more knowledgeable about the present or future than Mohammed.
Some scholars believe that the contradictory texts in the Koran show there were many hands that wrote the Koran…the earliest parts of the Koran appear to be from a tolerant, peaceful, heretical Christian sect, while the last texts in the Koran appear to have been written by a violent sociopath.
IMHO, ‘abrogation’ is one of the absurd doctrines that prove Islam is of purely human origin. To put it in simply, Mohammed was ‘making stuff up’ and then inventing a new ‘command from God’ every time a new problem came up.
Recommended article about abrogation written by a former Muslim apologist:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Farooq_Ibrahim/abrogation.htm
(Quote: “It seems to me that a man like myself is limited and needs to learn from his mistakes, and therefore need to provide better commands after earlier commands have not worked. It is not self-evident to me that the creator and sustainer of the universe is like that.” -Farooq Ibrahim)
Kurt says
The Ahmadiyya Muslim community believe the Quran’s abrogation was meant for previous scripture, not for the Quran itself. Even so, that makes the Quran even more confusing to understand.
linnte says
This is very good! Thanks!
Mary C says
This explanation and the accompanying hyperlink are very enlightening on abrogation. The example given of the abrogation regarding Islam’s take on whether or not followers of other religions will be rewarded in the afterlife reminds me of how one of Jamie Glazov’s guests explained the steps of Islam’s takeover of a foreign culture: 1) we’re tolerant multi-culturists, you should be too; 2) with increasing sway: wait a minute, you’re not following your own rules, your behavior is worthy of condemnation; 3) even more sway: we’re calling the tune now, your religion is morally and spiritually bankrupt. Oh, and give us some of your money, if you insist on not seeing the light of our religion. See if this doesn’t make a nice analogy to surah’s 2:62, 5:69 and 3:85 cited about 40% of the way down in that article.
Dacritic says
Even Aisya said that Allah seems to be very keen to please Muhammad.
Angemon says
The prohibition to kill during the holy month was an Arab custom. During a raid on a Meccan trade caravan (backstory: muhammad was ran out of Mecca because the Meccans did not like him insulting their ancestors and gods. After settling in Medina, muhammad started raiding Meccan caravans), his raiding party killed a Meccan during the holy months. After coming and telling muhammad about it, he initially distanced himself from the act (and his share of the booty), but he eventually got a “revelation” saying that killing during the holy months was grave, however “fitna” (persecution, disbelief) was even graver.
As for the theory that the Dark Ages in Europe were caused by muslims not only shutting down trade but actively invading and attacking Europe, I recommend reading “Mohammed and Charlemagne Revisited: The History of a Controversy” by Emmet Scott.
Mary C says
Thanks for the clarification on exactly what was being abrogated in this instance. And thanks for the book recommendation. One can get it used on Amazon for only $4.25.
PRCS says
I noticed in his previous video, and this one, that while accurately describing Islamic history, Qur’an, ahadith, etc., he uses the deceitful term “radicalism”.
I appreciate what he’s doing, but how is compliance “radicalism”?
simpleton1 says
Yes I wonder too, the difference of ISIS “radicalism” Also saying that other “moderate” (“innocent”) muslims are being killed.
Then again the videos are exposing what islam truly means, particularly in this video where he personalizes about an Uncle that rationalizes “islam is peace, as an apostate gets 3 days to change his mind”. That often thinking is dualistic opposite thinking,. and that at the end of the day, ordinary muslims, while claiming moderation, are not really that removed from ISIS.
As the videos are to be viewed by many, and particularly by muslims, I have to rationalize that he is slowly and deeply sinking in a crow bar, to raise questions, just what they do they believe and follow. That deep crowbar I hope that starts to crack the dualistic defense of muslims thought/belief patterns.
Leaving slow burning questions and doubt, to make them think more on the basis of their religion, and to eventually to think and consider that Mohammad is really the antithesis of where they may truly want to be.
After all how can you truly defend Mohammad and his teachings, when some of these things are pointed out in islam.
Then I also look, that he is an apostate, and all that must have changed in his life, and the relationships with his family (disowned by father) and community (death threats) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazem_Farraj
Yes pushing for Christianity, but more importantly, to be by free choice.
Also to understand more what islam is about, so like PRCS, appreciate what he is doing.
Mark A says
Interesting videos.
Robert, it might be an idea to start including his new videos on JW when they are released.
firefoxhits says
They are on YouTube
linnte says
All I know is the more he talks about ISIS, the more I hate Islam. When will this END? Praying for the whole world to wake up!
ffighter 85 says
time to unite and be proactive in preserving our freedom as humans, we need to set aside our divisions and simply stand up for humanity. Wake up and deal with the matters at hand, for our childrens sake.
Islam is attacking our rights to live in freedom
firefoxhits says
FYI
His videos to date are on YouTube to watch.
Hazem,
I commend your courage and humanity for exposing these facts.