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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Oklahoma beheader says he is being held “captive to the disbelievers of Allah, the one and only God”

May 22, 2016 11:27 am By Robert Spencer

The judge has postponed accepting his guilty plea, and his attorneys are trying to portray him as insane, but Nolen himself is adamant: “Responding to a question from one of his attorneys, who argue that he’s not mentally competent enough to enter a plea, Nolen said, ‘I’ll say it again. I’m here today to plead guilty.'” The judge and the attorneys can’t conceive of a sane man wanting to “strike the necks” of the unbelievers (cf. Qur’an 47:4). After all, it’s a Religion of Peace! He must be insane!

Alton Nolen

“Beheading suspect says he’s being held ‘captive to the disbelievers of Allah,'” by Daniel C. Houston, Associated Press, May 20, 2016 (thanks to Steve):

NORMAN, Okla. — An Oklahoma judge on Friday put off deciding whether to accept a man’s request to plead guilty to first-degree murder in the beheading of a co-worker, as a death sentence would still be possible.

Alton Nolen reiterated his desire to plead guilty and die by lethal injection after Cleveland County District Judge Lori Walkley asked a series of questions to assess whether he understood the charges stemming from the September 2014 attack at the Vaughn Foods plant in the Oklahoma City suburb of Moore.

“I’m being (held) captive to the disbelievers of Allah, the one and only God,” Nolen, who converted to Islam shortly before the attack, told the judge, declining to take the stand when delivering his testimony. “It’s part of my religion that when death faces you, you do not back down.”

Responding to a question from one of his attorneys, who argue that he’s not mentally competent enough to enter a plea, Nolen said, “I’ll say it again. I’m here today to plead guilty.”

Citing questions raised by a psychologist who evaluated Nolen at the request of his attorneys, Walkley said she wanted to be sure Nolen “knowingly and voluntarily” entered a guilty plea before she’ll agree to accept it. She said she would announce her decision on Aug. 12.

If Nolen is allowed to plead guilty, there would be a separate hearing to determine his sentence.

Nolen, 31, told Walkley on Friday that he wants to plead guilty to three of the six charges stemming from the attack at the Vaughn Foods plant in Moore, including the first-degree murder charge and two assault charges. He said the court was acting “ungrateful” toward him for his willingness to plead guilty and accept the death penalty, instead putting him through this extended process and not ruling out the possibility of a life sentence.

At a February hearing in which he also asked to plead guilty, Nolen told Walkley that he would only accept a death sentence, not one of the lesser sentences the charge carries of life in prison with or without the possibility of parole.

Or else what?

Walkley reminded Nolen repeatedly on Friday that if he pleaded guilty and waived his right to a jury trial, the decision to sentence him to death or life in prison would be up to the judge, not the defendant.

Prosecutors, who are seeking the death penalty, say Nolen had just been suspended from his job at the plant when walked into an administrative office and attacked Hufford, severing her head. They say he also stabbed and wounded another co-worker before a company executive shot him.

At a January hearing, Gary Hazelrigg, who was Vaughn’s customer service manager at the time, testified that Hufford was in his office when Nolen came in and grabbed her from behind while holding a butcher knife.

“In no more than a second or two, the man pulled her forehead toward him and made a vicious cut across her throat with the knife,” said Hazelrigg. He said Nolen then threw Hufford to the floor, sat on top of her and sawed at her throat….

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Filed Under: American jihadis, converts to Islam, Featured, Jihad in the U.S., Useful idiots, willful ignorance Tagged With: Alton Nolen


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Comments

  1. quotha raven says

    May 22, 2016 at 11:39 am

    This story is full of ironies, not the least of which is that the attack was stopped when a legal gun owner shot the perp.

    Think we should save our 2nd Amendment rights? Federal Government thinks not.

    Cheers!

    • Angemon says

      May 22, 2016 at 11:53 am

      Indeed. And I believe we know where Hillary stands on that issue.

      • Kathy Brown, Esq. says

        May 22, 2016 at 5:20 pm

        We sure do Ange!

        And take a look at the size of this creature. Can you IMAGINE the terror that poor woman felt once he got a hold of her? We know how hard she struggled! And this POS was on to his SECOND VICTIM when he was stopped!

        Tho’ it is horribly painful emotionally: I make it a point to put myself in the place of the millions and millions of victims of these subhumans. I do it because I never, ever want to become inured to the DERANGEMENT of the murderers among us, the muslimes.

        • quotha raven says

          May 22, 2016 at 5:41 pm

          Kathy – I did take a look at the size of him. According to the measuring stick on his mug shot, he’s only between about 5’1 and 5’2″. A real little guy, but armed, of course.
          I wouldn’t choose to have lunch with him.

          Cheers!

          quotha raven

        • quotha raven says

          May 22, 2016 at 5:46 pm

          Correction, Kathy – I think I had the wrong criminal. I was recalling another guy recently prosecuted, whose mug shot was shown with the article on JW. This guy does look huge. I wouldn’t want to have lunch with either one of them!

          Cheers!

          quotha raven

        • old white guy says

          May 23, 2016 at 10:30 am

          off with his head.

        • Shane says

          May 23, 2016 at 10:53 am

          People like this murderer are crazy on Islam, but they are not legally insane. They know what they are doing and they have a good reason for their crimes – they want to be like Mo and go straight to heaven where 72 virgins will serve their every need.

    • Helen says

      May 23, 2016 at 5:46 am

      Second amendment supporter? YOU BETCHA.

  2. Abu Nudnik says

    May 22, 2016 at 11:45 am

    “I’m being (held) captive to the disbelievers of Allah,…” Captive to or Captive by? Good to know grammar not needed for this important work!

    • Custos Custodum says

      May 22, 2016 at 4:12 pm

      Could it be that he is citing some text translated from Arabic.

  3. Jack Holan says

    May 22, 2016 at 12:00 pm

    I must ask the Defense Attorneys and Judge, when you saw the 29 Christians lined up on the Libyan beach with an IS executioner standing next to each one of them and following the Quran they beheaded each one; were all 29 executioners deranged?

  4. a fool says

    May 22, 2016 at 12:00 pm

    if he is insane, that meams almost all of the Allah beiievers are insane! They were and are still are being taught that all the NONE BELIEVER OF ALLAH MUDT DIE! It is their duty to their faith to like all the infedels! A person who lives for his faith couldn’t be an insane person!

    • quotha raven says

      May 22, 2016 at 12:03 pm

      To A Fool, who sez “…almost all of the Allah beiievers are insane! ”

      Gotta take issue with your surprising use of the word “almost”….

      Cheers!

      quotha raven

      • Franc says

        May 22, 2016 at 4:10 pm

        C’mon, it’s true; I live among Muslims, and most of them hate ISIS and Islamic extremism.

        What I would take issue with though, is, “It is their duty to their faith to like all the infedels!”

        • quotha raven says

          May 22, 2016 at 5:34 pm

          Anyone who embraces and/or believes the tenets of the Qur’an could be called insane, in my book. Conversely, anyone who does NOT embrace the tenets of Islam cannot rightly be called a Moslem. Do the Venn diagram!

          I have known and worked with a number of Muslims, and my experience with all of them was good enough, some better than others.

          Cheers!

          quotha raven

        • Kathy Brown, Esq. says

          May 22, 2016 at 8:38 pm

          Franc: I ‘live among muslims’ and every single solitary one of them ADMIRES the jihadists.

          Now some of them think their ‘methods’ are too, too ‘extreme’. But every one of them agrees that islam is superior to all; and every one of them hopes that sharia law will become OUR law (USA).

  5. underbed cat says

    May 22, 2016 at 12:01 pm

    He also went after another employee, who survived…working in a Federally enforced freedom of religion work place…..but not protecting the co-workers, fellow students, patients, law officers soldiers, citizens, travelers of all sorts, allowing deception and violence thru law. The enemy slander laws are only working for the enemy.

  6. Charli Main says

    May 22, 2016 at 12:29 pm

    Another Muslim freak, that has swallowed the 72 virgins, sexy boys and even sexier goats, crap sprouted by mad Mohammed of Mecca.

  7. WorkingClassPost says

    May 22, 2016 at 12:42 pm

    Workplace violence.

    Nothing to bother about, and nothing that a little bit of counseling and other assorted dialogue can’t fix.

  8. Guest says

    May 22, 2016 at 1:20 pm

    “Captive to the disbelievers of Allah,” good to know he understands his situation.
    Execute him!

    • INFIDEL says

      May 24, 2016 at 12:38 am

      Put his ass in solitary confinement for the rest of his natural life. Execution is what he wants so he won’t have deal with his sentence. Why give him what he wants. Make him sit in that cell alone for many many years.execution is to fast and easy for that scumbag. Don’t get me wrong, I am all for capital punishment just not for that scum because he is demanding it

  9. Walter Sieruk says

    May 22, 2016 at 1:57 pm

    After that vicious and heartless Muslim male committed that malicious and murderous action of evil. After the passing of some time , the Islamic organization C.A.I.R did reluctantly but eventually did make a half-hearted denouncement of that malice-filled bloodthirsty action by the Muslim. We may all be sure that this”denouement” was only done for “damage control ” to save Islam’s image. Not out of abhorrence for his deadly violence. Furthermore, the “C.A.I.R “denouncement” actually referred to that Muslim murderer as a “gentlemen.” What an inappropriate and unfitting to give that brutal Islamic monster .Since he cruelly and brutally murdered one woman and then went after another women to also murder her with a hatched. The only reason he did also her is because another man righteously shot him..

  10. Shmooviyet says

    May 22, 2016 at 2:02 pm

    it is beyond INFURIATING that this creature, doing the bidding of his prophet, *sawed the head off* a human being then tried to do same to another— yet nearly two years on he’s still sitting, and kneeling, in his cell, well-fed and sheltered by the people of OK and whining he’s being held by those inferior to him.

    Nice tattoo Alton, you blob of filth.

    • quotha raven says

      May 22, 2016 at 5:24 pm

      To Shmooviyet – who sez, “Nice tattoo Alton, you blob of filth.”

      Agreed, shmoovy! And not a very tall blob of filth, either!

      Cheers!

      quotha raven

      • Kathy Brown, Esq. says

        May 22, 2016 at 7:46 pm

        I was going by the size of the Officers next to this garbage.

        But I just noticed: This subhuman is GRINNING. As if he’s putting something over on everybody…

        Oh wait: He is doing that. I mean, he’s in a courtroom full of idiots who hold out the premise that ‘islam’ couldn’t POSSIBLY be his motivation.

        • quotha raven says

          May 22, 2016 at 8:32 pm

          to Kathy Brown, Esq –

          EggsZACTLY, Kathy. And there are so many of this ilk coming down the pike that I can’t distinguish my recollections of one from my recollections of another. How depressing.

          I sure you agree any of them would be horrible company at lunch!

          Cheers!

          quotha raven

  11. mortimer says

    May 22, 2016 at 3:17 pm

    Our judges are passing sentence on Muslim terrorists without even understanding the JIHAD DOCTRINE and the KAFIR DOCTRINE and the ISLAMIC APARTHEID DOCTRINE that motivate them!

    Judges need to understand the MOTIVES of JIHADISTS before they can pass an appropriate sentence.

    Jihadists are IDEALISTS…they are NOT INSANE.

    • Jay Boo says

      May 22, 2016 at 9:51 pm

      Mortimer meme
      (Jihadists are IDEALISTS)
      Wrong again

      Wake up Mortimer — Muslims are dirty scumbags.
      They shamelessly use the filth of Muhammad’s life as a shameless EXCUSE

      Meanwhile Mortimer has suggested that The West in contrast is only motivated by stupidity and bribery

      • quotha raven says

        May 22, 2016 at 10:05 pm

        Oh, Jesus, Jay Boo. How grim! I don’t think Morti is espousing that “The West in contrast is only motivated by stupidity and bribery.”

        Maybe I’m getting dotty, but I don’t think Morti sez anything of the sort.But I agree that Muslims should be regarded with a jaundiced eye. A buddy of mine in US Army Intel had a few years of on site experience in Iraq and Afghanistan.Every now and then, he’d say something that emblazoned itself on my brain. One such thang is: Never trust a Muslim.” Simplistic? Whatever. He was there, talking to village elders in Afghanistan.

        Cheers!

        quotha raven
        .

    • Jay Boo says

      May 22, 2016 at 10:01 pm

      Mortimer said.
      “Judges need to understand the MOTIVES of JIHADISTS before they can pass an appropriate sentence. ”

      What would Mortimer, who claims to understand their motives call an appropriate sentence for his — (NOBLE SAVAGE) IDEALISTIC driven Muslims?

      3 months of deprogramming with an endless display of reverence toward Islamic texts?
      After all, Mortimer declares that Muslims have no free choice and that the Koran forces them to commit depravity. Ironically that is the same shameless excuse Muslims use.

      • Angemon says

        May 23, 2016 at 3:02 pm

        Jay Boo posted:

        “After all, Mortimer declares that Muslims have no free choice and that the Koran forces them to commit depravity. Ironically that is the same shameless excuse Muslims use.”

        Yes, it’s almost as if mortimer is informing people of what muslims think and what islam teaches…

      • aaron morand says

        May 23, 2016 at 7:31 pm

        so many people so little time….read Genesis chapter 16 (all of it) and you will understand WHY
        the Arabic people (the muslim) are as they are…OR…you can continue to remain in the
        DARK like sooooo many who love to rant and complain but haven’t the time to understand…..
        all of this has been foretold……and only NOW is beginning to effect Your life…before that, it
        didn’t really matter now did it?….pathetic….

  12. Hope says

    May 22, 2016 at 7:59 pm

    Lethal injection is a humane method for ending the life of a loyal and beloved family pet, for the purpose of alleviating his suffering.

    Lethal injection is too good for bottom-feeding scum like Alton Nolen.

  13. Robert Crawford says

    May 22, 2016 at 10:18 pm

    His former boss should have put one through the bullseye the thug conveniently placed on his own forehead.

    • robert says

      May 23, 2016 at 12:13 pm

      my sentiments also-the boss should go back to the gun range for a refresher. but good on him for stopping anyone else from getting their throat slit.this monster should die the same way as his victim.

  14. Dean says

    May 23, 2016 at 4:13 am

    Following the Koran explicitly does make the fundamental believer insane in civilized terms, but what are the leftist attorneys, including Obama, going to do about it. They are equally insane claiming this conduct does not come from a fundamental belief while insisting that civilization accept it as just another religion and worthy of equal respectability. Civilized people are not allowed to win if the IslamoNazi is either excused as non-Islamic and our fault or if that excuse can’t be escaped with the fundamentalist, then he is insane.

    • Kathy Brown, Esq. says

      May 23, 2016 at 10:48 am

      As an attorney myself, I want to make something clear.

      No lawyer is ever ‘forced’ to defend a client. If you choose to be on a list of ‘court-appointed’ attorneys, that is a choice you make. Of course then you can be appointed by a judge to a particular case, but you made yourself eligible for that.

      So the lawyers in these cases we see are there because they want to be.

      Now once you’re there, you’re going to make the best arguments for your client. However no one may advance a defense which the court does not allow. So these clowns asserting that this guy is ‘mentally ill’ have chosen to be there, to defend him, to assert that defense.

      Neither I, nor any attorney I know, would appear for this creature. Why? IT MIGHT WORK.

      • Champ says

        May 23, 2016 at 7:28 pm

        Great comment, thank you, Kathy!

        • Dean says

          May 23, 2016 at 8:03 pm

          I had to hold my nose to represent the rights of some criminal defendants early in my career since those on the list are ordered and have little choice but to provide legal assistance. It is not on defense attorneys to protect the American system and can defend with good conscience so long as they don’t bend the law or lie to help the defendant or allow him to perjure himself. Justice depends on the prosecutor, judge and jury and my other comment was not so much about defense attorneys but the interesting twist of his defense. The fundamental Muslim’s incoherence comes very close to legal insanity and it is up to our culture to reject them.

  15. خَليفة says

    May 23, 2016 at 4:53 am

    ( had my first comment say “pending moderating” – hehehe, I’ve had some disappear too – also Hahahaha ) what’s the trigger? Murder Rape Sword ? Or is it my squiggly nom de guerre? Hahahaha.

    This guy was clearly not insane as was indicted by his actions prior to the crime – in case you don’t recall, I do – he was fired, went home, came back to work with a cutting thing to do some unfinished Koranic business, then was impaled by small metal projectile and arrested. I’m betting he’ll be found guilty and the media buzz will be debating whether he gets life in prison or a lethal injection, I’m leaning toward the “vaccination” as that is the only sure fire way to cure the insanity virus known as Islam.

    • aaron morand says

      May 23, 2016 at 7:36 pm

      what does your “squiggly” pen name say? Why are you surprised that some might spit in your
      face when you have a name in such “squiggly” fashion intimating some muslim(?) affiliation???????

      • خَليفة says

        May 23, 2016 at 9:00 pm

        Hahaha Aaron, you are on to me… I am not a Muslim, I would rather be dead than be a Muslim.

        خَليفة Is caliph in Arabic, it means successor. You can copy and paste any text on JW ( do it befor you start a comment )

        I use خَليفة because it makes it easy to find my comments, and also, so a real Muslim can’t use that name.

  16. Dennis says

    May 23, 2016 at 8:35 am

    Why do western people have difficulty in accepting a Muslim’s testimony of : I did it, I am guilty. Rule on the confession. Send these people to their god!

  17. Champ says

    May 23, 2016 at 7:57 pm

    Hey Slave you serve allah, and guess what, allah is satan …

    It’s revealed in the quran!

    https://youtu.be/CSyCoKYtjqQ

  18. Kathy Brown, Esq. says

    May 24, 2016 at 1:24 am

    Dean: I disagree with you.

    As you yourself admit, ‘those on the list are ordered and have little choice’. They already ‘chose’ Dean. They decided to be ‘on the list’, knowing they would then ‘have little choice’.

    And ‘It is not on defense attorneys to defend the American system’? Seriously?

    It’s ‘on’ every American to defend our system, our values, our country. Did you park your patriotism the day you were admitted to the Bar?

    And what of the judgment after our death Dean? Almighty God will judge us, and there are no Rules of Evidence there; no exclusionary rules. ALL we have done is on the table. Do you imagine that, when asked what we did with the gifts God gave us, we may then say, ‘I defended those who did evil but don’t blame me, I was a lawyer?’

    That won’t fly.

    Now of course I understand that lawyers aren’t supposed to talk this way. We’re supposed to trot out all you just said, ‘the interesting twist of this defense’; ‘the fundamental muslim’s incoherence comes close to legal insanity’; ‘justice depends on the prosecutor, judge and jury’. But you know and I know, that’s an excuse. It’s an excuse for us to use our God-given brains and our powers of persuasion to ‘get off’ some criminal. If we succeed, we are then responsible for any further evil that criminal does.

    And all of this is a million times more true of defending muslims.

    But if we ARE going to do as you suggested, let us at least be honest about it. Let us say what is the truth, that we KNOW we are aiding and abetting evil. That we’re doing it for the $. That we’re doing it for the thrill of the win. I’ve done that. It felt great. Until it felt like s_ _t.

    And after 9/11? No way Jose. No way.

    • Dean says

      May 24, 2016 at 2:29 am

      The American justice system of competing advocacy is as American as freedom of religion. What you are suggesting is that a defense attorney must be judge and jury of a defendant’s sanity before he can urge insanity as a defense. If the defendant does not respond to the attorneys attempts to defend his rights and seems bent on self-immolation, his sanity must be placed in issue. It isn’t for this attorney to decide in advance what is the court’s obligation to determine or allow his personal opinion about Islam to interfere with his ethical obligations as defense attorney. If the defendant seems incoherent although I have read the Koran and know that he is fundamentalist, ethically I still must offer the insanity issue for the court to decide. I had several clients displaying a lack of the ordinary coherence about their situation and even court appointed experts were adamant on both sides regarding legal insanity and only the judicial process determined the judgment, as distinguished from the truth which you know is not the goal. Personally I remained emotionally detached even when I disagreed with the judgment since I don’t claim omniscience. After one case where I assisted the attorney of record, he said he never thought the guy, our client, was insane and I said neither did I but the jury disagrees with us. His actions determined his appropriate defense, not our opinions.

      All of this started with my comment that this is a dilemma of the left. Is a fundamentalist insane under the judicial definition and if it is then can Islam be a respected and recognized religion. They want to have it both ways and this attorney has unintentionally placed it before this court. Maybe this time the teachings of Islam will be accepted as relevant to the arguments and the court’s decision. It is very possible that a fundamentalist complete acceptance and consistent actions also makes him legally insane under some jurisdictions’ definition. This tribal code is completely incompatible with our accepted codes of conduct. Is the true believer insane because it renders the faithful incapable of knowing what we think is right and wrong?

      • Dean says

        May 24, 2016 at 3:02 am

        One more that I left out, the system that I was referring to originally was not the court system as one is ethically bound to uphold, but the larger American issues of what should be true and just in our modern culture. My opinion that Islam is nothing but a codification of tribal customs, beliefs, prejudices and nostilities hidden beneath stolen monotheism for legitimacy is not the ethical obligation of any defense attorney just as Islam is not on trial with a Muslim criminal defendant but may be relevant to his actions if it is probative of his criminal intent.

        • quotha raven says

          May 24, 2016 at 4:23 am

          To Dean – Thank you for these well-reasoned comments. Instructive and thought-provoking..

          Cheers!

          quotha raven

        • quotha raven says

          May 25, 2016 at 12:12 am

          Dean – I love you dearly, but could you please use paragraphs and shorter sentences? )))) It would help this reader’s concentration and ability to focus!

          Cheers!

          quotha raven

      • Kathy Brown, Esq. says

        May 24, 2016 at 9:07 pm

        I respect your opinion, Dean, tho’ I do not share it.

        No one is ‘above’ their own conscience. And you are correct: None of us is ‘omniscient’; only God Himself has that attribute.

        My point was: We as attorneys must decide to what we will lend our abilities. I agree that everyone is entitled to a defense; otherwise the State/Gov’t. would steamroll over all of the accused. But no defendant is entitled to MY defense, our yours, or any attorney’s.

  19. vcragain says

    May 24, 2016 at 6:59 am

    Maybe we should now offer a new way to resolve our current situation – set up ‘pathway to paradise’ houses and let anyone go thru the doors – maybe we can avoid this ridiculous situation by just helping all of them go to that lovely ‘paradise’ they think is their destiny – after all as long as they believe their destination is a good one, who are we to argue with them, and surely that would not be cruel or wicked ?
    I can just see it now – a special welcoming doorway with ‘collect your 72 virgins here’ signs and a smiling ‘Imam’ dressed suitably – we could set one up in every high street and have a big advertising campaign !
    yeah I have solved it ! Actually Disney are good at this – should we just let them set up the ‘welcome to paradise’ spots ! /s

  20. vcragain says

    May 24, 2016 at 7:19 am

    and http://72virgins.com/ is available !

  21. John A. Marre says

    May 24, 2016 at 10:09 am

    Anyone who adopts the violent ideology of Islam should be stripped of their citizenship and expelled from the country.

    • Kathy Brown, Esq. says

      May 24, 2016 at 9:10 pm

      Yes. Exactly.

      And this can be done quite constitutionally, once the vile ROP is stripped of its false ‘religious’ designation.

      • Dean says

        May 24, 2016 at 9:51 pm

        It is completely constitutional for entry agreements conditioning immigrant conduct until becoming naturalized citizens. This was done for most of our history, even implicitly, but a written agreement can provide for summary deportation on a finding of violation. Such agreements can not only require unqualified acceptance of the primacy of the Constitution over sharia or other ideologies and can even govern advocacy of contrary ideas. Freedom of speech and religion would be subject to the overriding consensual terms of the contract.

        • quotha raven says

          May 24, 2016 at 10:49 pm

          To Dean, who sez “and can even govern advocacy of contrary ideas. Freedom of speech and religion would be subject to the overriding consensual terms of the contract.”

          You totally lost me here. I don’t understand what you say. Could you expand a bit for the sorry likes of me?))) Thanks in anticipation

          Cheers!

          quotha raven.

        • Dean says

          May 24, 2016 at 11:38 pm

          Contractual immigration can limit the conduct of the emigrant’s conduct, who achieve their full Constitutional rights only after naturalization, as with early immigrants for communist’s activities. The belief that the legions of attorneys can protect them is a product of immigration policy and has not been confirmed by SCOTUS, and shouldn’t. My comment followed the prior comments that overlooks that there are undercover monitors and successful prosecutions for anti-government seditious activities by right wing religious organizations constantly. It is not protected by freedom of speech or religion. There is no such freedom that that protects seditious advocacy and what is sharia and jihad promotion if properly understood and it doesn’t protect immigrant’s status anyway.

        • quotha raven says

          May 25, 2016 at 12:07 am

          Thank you, Dean, for that amplification.

          It’s your use of the word “limit” that puzzles me. What legal weight does this word “limit” hold?
          You say “There is no such freedom that that protects seditious advocacy and what is sharia and jihad promotion if properly understood and it doesn’t protect immigrant’s status anyway.”

          Soothing words, Dean. I wish I had more confidence that a word with more shock value and legal weight than “limit” might have been employed. But I hasten to add I’m not an attorney and am probably just, you know, spouting off.

          Cheers!

          quotha raven

        • Dean says

          May 25, 2016 at 12:28 am

          The immigrant’s right to enter and remain in the US processing towards and qualifying for citizenship can be conditioned upon accepting the Constitution and all the laws enforcing those rights as supreme to the Koran and Sharia law. Any violation, including advocacy of violating those laws, would subject the immigrant, and his children born anywhere, to summary deportation.

        • quotha raven says

          May 25, 2016 at 1:46 am

          Got ya! Thanks again, Dean.

          Cheers!

          quotha raven

        • Kathy Brown, Esq. says

          May 24, 2016 at 11:38 pm

          Excellent points Dean!

          Now I’d not known of these ‘entry agreements’ until very recently and I didn’t come upon it in representing a client. Instead, I was researching our ‘Naturalization’ clause[s] pursuant to an Am. Hist Class I teach…

          As you cite: These are tailor-made for restricting muslim (sharia-adherent) immigration. Best of all: This would by no means require a ‘case-by-case’ adjudication; instead, the entire ‘class’ of muslim immigration would be restricted. Their very ideology prevents them from swearing allegiance to the USA and its laws.

          In like manner I have no doubt that the [absurd present day] interpretation of the so-called ‘Birthright’ clause, could be struck down, again quite constitutionally. Non-citizens illegally present here are not ‘subject to the laws’ of the USA; they are citizens of a different sovereign state (Mexico, Pakistan, etc.). So are their children.

          A Supreme Court properly constituted (justices like the late lamented Justice Scaila, RIP) could revisit these issues and restore sovereignty to our beloved country.

        • Dean says

          May 25, 2016 at 12:11 am

          About 100 years ago, a wife of a Chinese diplomat refused to leave the US claiming both abuse and reprisal if she had to return and that her child born here was a natural born citizen and she was attached to that right. After SCOTUS considered her claims, she and her kid were packed up and sent to China. The original, debated and accepted definition of natural born was of a citizen “born in our territory”. The accepted belief in ‘anything goes’ anchor babies is a dept. of immigration policy but no decision by SCOTUS has been rendered. It is de facto based opon un-differentiated birth certificates issued by hospital and states followed by driver’s license and then voter registration. If Congress was intellectually honest, they could change the entire process sending it to SCOTUS for determinatioin. Ignore the 1790 law since this is birth right and not a naturalizationj issue and for 200 years legal scholars believed all that law conferred was equal Constitudional Rights to those naturalized citizens.

        • quotha raven says

          May 25, 2016 at 12:21 am

          Oh, my, Kathy B, esq – I’m so glad I pursued that w/ Dean. Glad you picked up on it, too, because I have some confidence in your energy to pursue…and you are much more knowledgeable than I am, as you’re a lawyer. I have only had “brushes with the law”…LOL, only on the right side.

          Glad you’re here, paying attention,

          Cheers!

          quotha raven

  22. Kathy Brown, Esq. says

    May 25, 2016 at 2:01 am

    Quotha: Oh don’t worry about the weakness of the word ‘limit’!

    In everyday parlance, you’re right, the word is somewhat flaccid. But not in law. In law, ‘limit’ can extend-up to and INCLUDING-the Death Penalty.

    Now: I had to post this before going to bed. I did to assure YOU a good night’s rest-no worries with ‘limit’ as understood by the courts!

    • quotha raven says

      May 25, 2016 at 2:12 am

      KB, Thus reassured, I shall sleep like a rock.Thanks!

      Cheers!

      quotha raven

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