“We should remember not to blame all members of any other religion or political ideology for what one person does.” Right. The problem is that any examination of the motives and goals of people such as Omar Mateen, and any consideration of what can be done about them, is always met with the accusation that such examinations and considerations constitute blaming all Muslims for the actions of jihadis. It is so obviously fallacious that it is hard not to suspect that it is an intentional obfuscation.
“Let’s not give in to fear after the Orlando shooting,” by Steven W Thrasher, Guardian, June 12, 2016:
For generations, gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender Americans have turned to night clubs and bars like Orlando’s Pulse – the scene today of the deadliest shooting in American history – as places of refuge. They have been our sanctuaries….
Terrorism works because it makes people afraid of our fellow human beings. Let us not let terrorism work this time. As our ancestors did not at Stonewall, let us not fall to fear.
Let us remember those mourning black families in Charleston – attacked in their sanctuary this very week last year – who looked at Dylan Roof within hours of taking their kin and said “I forgive you” with no malice in their hearts. Let us remember the lack of vengeance they displayed, and how they immediately pivoted from a place of intense grief towards action for building a better world.
Let us remember that individuals who commit horrendous crimes in this country with absurd regularity have one thing in common: they have easy access to weapons of mass killing.
Let us remember that singer Christina Grimmie was also shot to death, also in Orlando, within a day of the tragedy of the Pulse nightclub – seemingly by a man whose race and religion will not be used to smear other members of his same race and religion.
Let us remember what transgender Americans have been subjected to over something as basic as bathroom use (which may have led to a bomb being set in a Target last week) and say we must stop the violence.
Let us remember that we have never really blamed all Christians, Republicans or Democrats (many who have organized en masse to subject queer people to systematic violence and destruction at different points in American history) for the violence waged against us. We should remember that again today. We should remember not to blame all members of any other religion or political ideology for what one person does….

Richie says
You cannot defeat an enemy if you are unwilling to identify the enemy
Raja says
Amen
paul says
this guy is either a muslim, liberal,or an idiot. He never read the koran is is not qualified to speak about this “religion”
Peter Charles says
Obama to do so. Why?
Hope says
Mr. Thrasher, you are a very ignorant man and, though you mean well, your ignorance puts all of us in danger. You need to look sqarely at what we are up against. It’s time to put aside your religious devotion to liberal ideology and face the truth: islam is here in America and it is here to destroy everyone and everything that offends islam. This includes all of us, gays, Christians, Jews, atheists, agnostics, adherents of other faiths. We are at war, sir. Platitudes and lofty ideals did not work against Hitler and they will not work against this religion of murder and death.
Idania says
You read my mind. The only difference, I was going to call him IDIOT.
jayell says
Or ‘cock-eyed optimist’? Which is a euphemism for ‘idiot’, I suppose. Which involves being wilfully ignorant. And where that involves encouraging a situation that endangers your fellow-citizens, it becomes a whole lot worse.
Greyhound Fancier says
Again, the moral equivalency! An hour ago, following this story, I waited for the first reference to Christians and Jews slaughtering gays. Please, some references…I am pretty familiar with US history and don’t know of incidents like in Orlando having antecedents. Those goofballs in Kansas with the family church don’t count, I don’t believe, because they ordinarily go to the funerals of US military men and women, who are condemned by them for supporting the US, which doesn’t crack down on the LGBTQRSTW….
Please don’t make “someone said something mean to me” equivalent with mass murder.
Westman says
Well said.
It isn’t typical Muslims who are the problem, it’s the discriminating, segregating, us/them/believer/non-believer Islamic/political ideology, that, like an insidious disease, takes control of its hosts; driving some to death and destruction. If it was but 1 in 1000 Muslims that accepted the darker literal interpretations of Quran and Sunnah that would be 1.5 Million violent Jihadists.
Mr. Thrasher, are 1.5 million Jihadis enough to declare that the Islamic ideology has problems? When you watch the Saudis behead someone, Afghans stone a woman, Pakistanis honor kill daughters, just like ISIS, do you say, “We need that here”? When a female muslim is mutilated(FGM) do you say, “My daughter could benefit from that”? Why do you follow Neville Chamberlain Mr. Thrasher? He was placated by deception just as you have been. Perhaps you are unaware that Muhamman said, “War is deceit”. You have been deceived.
paul says
Mr Trasher would read better
Richie says
Let us also remember that in Islam homosexuality is seen as an abomination, and gays are executed. Why western gays are indifferent, and often defend Islam to this is beyond me. Its akin to Jews defending Nazis
Richie says
(in that just as Nazis wanted to wipe out the Jews, Muslims want to wipe out all gays)
SpiritOf1683 says
And they still want to wipe out Jews, just as they have done since 627 AD, and especially 1948.
Ted Tyler says
Ritchie, In addition to Islam, does not the bible also say something like: “If a man lies with another man, it is an abomination unto the Lord”. Now I’m not really sure what “abomination” means – but I have a strong feeling that it cannot be a good thing.
billybob says
The “Bible” is not a religion. There are no “Biblians” going around screaming “Bible akabar” and killing gays.
Ted Tyler says
Thanks billybob. It is good to know that the Bible is not a religion! Does that mean that the Koran, the works of Shakespeare and Chocolate Ice-cream are also not religions?
Idania says
Yes, but Christian don’t go around pushing gays to their death. Big difference. Also dear comparing the Bible teaching with anything muslim is an abomination.
Ted Tyler says
To deny the similarity between the evil in the Old Testament and the evil in the Islamic Holy Texts is also an abomination. Perhaps what I am seeing here is thinking that goes something like this: “Evil done by my God is not evil because God is good, has a plan for us, and works in mysterious ways – but evil done by Allah and Muhammad – well that is truly evil”.
linnte says
Recognising that some areas of the Old Testament are just as barbaric as the Qur’an is understood by all Christians and Jews. Which is why Jews DO NOT PRACTISE this barbarism. They understand the the Word of God is set in that specific timeline, and they have grown spiritually from this. Christians accept that Jesus FULLFILLED the Law when he said “It is finished”. He gave us a new Commandment”love one another as I have loved you”.
Islam, on the other hand, has no limitations in the Quranic timeline and those words are taught as completely relevant today as in the day o Muhammad.
Many Jews and Christians speak out AGAINST homosexuality, yes, but that is what free speech is all about. If a gay person is killed (how rare!)by a Christian, the Church openly CONDEMS the act of murder. You will NOT hear any Muslim say, “poor gays. We accept them into our Mosques as equals”. Ever!
Ted Tyler says
Thanks Linnet. You made the distinction clear and accurate.
linnte says
I did? Good! I am new at this! Have a good day Ted.
paul says
Wait till they start being killed by the refugees.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=689&v=2tqLVWEmvUM
Dexter Wilson says
It ain’t a matter of fear but of scruples. You have people who follow a religion that says to kill Christians and Jews and anyone who does not follow the teachings of the Koran. Hello, once their population exceeds those of the country they have become a part of they will institute Sharia. These gays need to be thankful that Christians don’t go around shooting people if they don’t follow the Bible and quit trying to force them to bake cakes and plan their weddings. We allowed certain sects of Christianity not to be conscripted, why the Hell do they attempt to make us do what they want. They need the Christian Community as friends and stop alienating them by forcing them to participate in Gay Weddings.
paul says
attacking Christians is politically correct. Like the Jews in WWII Germany
isabella van der westhuizen says
Look it is obvious it was some right wing red neck NRA homophobic bigot
The Last English Prince says
It IS TIME that we give into fear and that we demand something be done about this problem.
Jay Boo says
People in the US are fearful that Obama is out of control in his appeasement to the slave trade religion, Islam.
No wonder there is fear.
Jay Boo says
“Let’s not give in to fear after the Orlando shooting”
——————————————————————–
Translation because it was a Muslim inspired by jihad let’s not allow ourselves any feelings of moral indignation.
Imagine an angry Fundy-Fanatic Christian doing this.
Islam’s top MO HO commander in chief POTUS and all the EU Leftists would be steaming.
Western Canadian says
Pass fear, and go straight to anger.
Steve Klein says
Orlando massacre will boost Trump, says ex-Israel envoy to US‘
Given that it is becoming clear that the motive is Islamist-jihadist,’ says Michael Oren, ‘this will greatly strengthen’ GOP candidate
BY TIMES OF ISRAEL STAFF June 12, 2016, 8:31 pm
Jay Boo says
Muslims are nice people……..
…… After they leave Islam.
Wellington says
“Let’s not give into fear after the Orlando shooting.”
If Christians acting in the name of their faith committed just one tenth of the atrocities that Muslims do acting in the name of their faith, Steven Thrasher would not say anything remotely like this. The hypocrisy, the double standard and the sheer stupidity of people like Thrasher is sickening. Islam is sickening too and I don’t fear it but I certainly do despise it. If one does not despise Islam, there’s something wrong with that person, whether it be massive ignorance, extreme foolishness or actual complicity.
Raja says
Wellington, That is a good post… Thank you..
billybob says
Perhaps you didn’t intend it to come out like that, but your statement “If Christians acting in the name of their faith committed just one tenth of the atrocities that Muslims do acting in the name of their faith” is very confusing. Muslims do not act “in the name of their faith”. They act under direction from their faith – a very different thing. Meanwhile, if Christians act under the direction of their faith, it would be to commit random acts of kindness. There is simply no mandate in the teachings of Jesus for Christians to do evil.
Ted Tyler says
I agree with “There is simply no mandate in the teachings of Jesus for Christians to do evil”.
However I don’t see any difference with “acting in the name of their faith versus acting under the direction of their faith”. In my simplistic way of thinking, I interpret both these statements to be: “Koran say, Muslim do.”
So what is the difference?
Idania says
Big difference. Christian are called to be loving, forgiving and peaceful. BIG, BIG, DIFFERENCE.
Wellington says
With respect, billybob, I think you have drawn a distinction without a difference. And I am fully aware that there is nothing in the Christian theological blueprint that calls for the use of force to spread Christianity.
Indeed, and as I have noted before at JW, if anything Christian thinkers through the ages (e.g., St. Augustine) have had to go to some lengths to validate the “just war” doctrine. The fact that so many pacifist Christian sects have arisen, examples being the Amish, Quakers and Mennonites, testifies to an inherent pacifist strain that runs throughout the New Testament, contra the Koran of course enormously so.
In my initial comment I was merely trying to point out the rank hypocrisy of people like Thrasher who only too eagerly go after Christians and say all kinds of false things about them as opposed to continuing to make excuses for the worst religion ever created by man and one which is a mortal threat to liberty, which Christianity certainly is not.
Greyhound Fancier says
Well said…some believe that legalizing Christianity was a death blow to the Western Roman Empire, because the influence of Christians further diminished the martial spirit of the Romans. (Yet the Eastern Empire survived for another 1,000 years.)
The Christians’ influence also stopped the spectacle of killing people and animals in the Coliseum.
Idania says
Great post, Wellinton. Just reality. Be careful telling the truth is not popular.
Tom Davis says
“Let’s not give into fear after the Orlando shooting.”
Exactly right. Fear makes it hard to aim properly when returning fire. Be brave instead.
dumbledoresarmy says
You wrote – “Exactly right. Fear makes it hard to aim properly when returning fire. Be brave instead.”
YES!
Only I’d expand somewhat. “Be angry. Be smart. Be brave”.
My very first reaction to the news of this monstrous mass-murder – exactly as my first reaction to the news of the murder of Charlie Hebdo, and the murders at the Bataclan, and the bombing in Brussels, and all the nasty Muslim sneak attacks – knifings and such – in Israel, most recently the gunning down of Jews in a chocolate shop in Tel Aviv – and so many others – is not grief. It is sheer white-hot ANGER. “Shit. Those bl**dy damn Mohammedans are murdering my people **again**”.
But after the anger has to come the focused intelligent *thinking*, to work out how best to *fight back*. And that’s when the bravery is needed, when various actions are taken to *resist*.
Oriana Fallaci’s first response to the 9/11 attack was rage, and a vivid defence of civilisation and denunciation of its declared enemy, Islam. “The Rage and the Pride” was written at white heat, a brilliant tour de force and a call to arms. Then she followed it up with “The Force of Reason”, looking in particular at stealth jihad and immigration/ demographic jihad and sharia creep and the dhimmi Islamophiles. A one-two punch.
I’d rather see 1000 gays from Florida – black, white, Latino, arm in arm, a band of brothers and sisters – stamping off to 1/ register Republican and vote Trump, so as to keep gay-hating Mohammedans like Omar Mateen *out* in future and 2/ enlisting in the Home Guard to get military training – or lining up to join the Police force – and 3/ joining and donating to ACT for America, than see 10 000 people piling up flowers and candles and teddy bears and singing sad songs outside the nightclub.
Honour the dead; resist sharia, resist Islamisation, defy and defeat the Jihad.
And right now, the counter-jihad should be telling people that *anger*, when confronted with murderous evil of this magnitude, is *healthy*, natural, and right.
That’s why I liked Trump’s response to the news. Because it struck exactly Oriana’s note of rage and pride. It rang true. He was *angry* about the murders. He was sad yes and offered condolences, but he was clearly *angry*.
linnte says
Bravo! I agree completely and WELL SAID!
linnte says
Agreed! Thanks!
Westman says
Agreed, Wellington.
I think Mr. Thrasher also doesn’t understand that there is a difference between fear and revulsion. If this jihadist had tried his mayhem in a straight Wyoming or South Chicago bar, he would never live long enough to see a policeman.
WorkingClassPost says
This guy’s right, we shouldn’t blame all muslims for these repeated actions – just the ones who read and believe in the satanic ramblings that their ideology is built on.
Ted Tyler says
Muhammad Ali is not helping the containment of Islam. My view of Ali is that he was a character, a comedian, and basically a non-violent person. People will point to Ali and Kareem Abdul Jabbar as
“good Muslims and that they could be good role models for everyone. But to be “good”, you have to be ignorant of the basic teachings of Islam. I guess that this was the case with Ali – but possibly not with Jabbar..
Western Canadian says
Ali was, in his younger years as a boxer, an extreme racist. He, on several occasions, voiced the viewpoint that both members of a mixed marriage (‘black’ and ‘white’), should be killed. He did improve over time, but he was never non-violent…. He was a professional BOXER… few past times as violent as that…
Ted Tyler says
Thanks Western.
We need to get more information as to what the real Ali thought about Islam and race relations. At this point, it looks like Ali was a racist, did not like whites, and may have actually been “radicalized”, that is, embraced many of the principles of orthodox Islam. Ali also had a distorted view of Islamic History. I suspect that the only things that Ali knew about Islam was what Elijah Muhammad told him.
Here is an article by Tom Tancredo from Breibart.com which I rate as “seems reasonable”.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/06/11/muhammad-ali-was-wrong-islam-enslaved-blacks-for-centuries-did-not-free-them/
Mark Swan says
Ted, Just Google—The Nation Of Islam
billybob says
“We should remember not to blame all members of any other religion or political ideology for what one person does….”
That is a red herring. It would be silly to blame or credit “all members of any other religion or political ideology”, because obviously “all members” did not participate in the massacre. The blame goes to the religion or ideology that inspired this heinous crime, and that is Islam.
Mention of Dylon Roof was also misleading, because he was not acting under the direction of any religion or ideology, and in that case then only he is to blame for his actions. That was deliberate misdirection meant to confuse the issue.
Nigel GFF says
“… because obviously “all members” did not participate in the massacre.”
Well, some might say that it is axiomatic that all Muslims follow the basic tenets of Islam. These ‘members’ must approve of the many, many exhortations to slaughter of the ‘different’ (non-members of their club), no matter their hue. Ergo, although there may not be any obvious direct participation or material support, it could be argued that there is a continuous and ongoing ‘spiritual’ support for these heinous acts. I never get deafened by the shouts of disgust and disapproval from the ‘not in my name’ group. Yes, this was a hate crime. Islam hates ‘the other’. Adherents of Islam are tarred with the same brush, distinguished only by degree.
Greyhound Fancier says
That “blame all members” meme is a red herring always thrown out by leftists and liberals after Muslims commit another atrocity.
Everyone is looking for the elusive “moderate Muslims”, i.e., the ones who don’t take the violent parts of their religion to heart.
I expect to see Muslims in heaven, and some may get in heaven before me – but that doesn’t mean that I have no duty to oppose Muslims killings, rapes, slaving, destruction, hate, and oppression in this world.
Raja says
Ramadan and Islam is top gear. Obama don’t you wait any more to Import those nice Muslims in hordes whose only motive is to kill ANYTHING unislamic-whether movables and immovable things/beings thanks to Satanic Koran.
Raja says
Sorry, it should read in top gear.
Angemon says
Called it.
Guest says
No I really do blame the Democrats for this.
SBJ says
The biggest killers in modern history is less muslims than the good olde USA herself. Creating proxy wars, and coups around the world, isn’t going to endear people to the fascist regime, that the US has become.
As much as I despise the Fundamental religionous/political ideology, that calls itself Islam, maybe sites like this, need to start evaluating and questioning what/who is going on behind the scenes to create such unmitigated world chaos? because it sure in the hell isn’t the Russian or the Chinese. The oil slick, with her fiat currency is a slimy mile long.
WorkingClassPost says
Don’t worry, there are plenty here who get it.
Greyhound Fancier says
The elites in the US who accept payment from Muslims, especially the Saudis, and alter their common sense and behavior to deserve their payment, are seditious and should be hung on the nearest lamppost.
The Clintons and Bushes would be the first to go. Obama may be a traitor by conviction.
Agreeing with the Muslims that we are at war with them would be a good first step to clarifying the problem.
Western Canadian says
“The biggest killers in modern history is less muslims than the good olde USA herself. ”
Load of absolute crap. islam, followed by bastard offspring of marxism, with ANY portion of the west so far down the list, that only total morons buy into the slop you are stupid enough to swallow.
Norger says
After reading that, I think I’m going to hurl.
jayell says
Just about sums it all up.
Ronen says
By ‘not giving in to fear’ they actually mean ‘lets give in to fear’. It’s a subtle difference.
Khushi says
What guardian means is this :-
‘Don’t blame muslims for any atrocity that muslims commit is the name of islam. Just dig your head deeper in the sand’
Kolga says
I believe that the Muslim is a totally skewed version of humanity.
A beast that glories in the basest, most vile characteristics of human nature.
An automaton, filled with hate and bloodlust.
These monsters, given carte blanch via their holy book to indulge their psychotic behaviours can’t be the reason Western society and culture finally crumble due to its capitulation to Islam.
There’s a giant shitstorm coming.
shrugger says
Fear is not the emotion I feel after each of these demonstrations that islam is a religion of peace.
Don Kleim says
These animals continue to perpetrate acts of unspeakable horror on innocent people and the leftist assholes who are governing Canada and the USA continue to give them a free pass. Slowly these vile excuses for human beings are taking over our education systems, governments, courts and driving Christianity underground. The ridiculous diplomatic bullshit statements that Obama and Trudeau spout in defense of this barbaric ideology after every one of these incidents is treasonous. It is tantamount to giving aid and comfort to the enemy.
paul says
You ought to read the koran. They are NOT lutherans. To get closer to Allah, killing infidels is part. In Ramadan you read the whole book and come across the part to be hard on unbelievers. That is where jihad comes in. You can ask obola details on Ramadan, and its reading of the whole koran.
Or you are just stupid, commenting on a book you never read out of laziness.
paul says
Hey Trasher, please tell me how to understand this! https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/06/idaho-residents-call-for-justice-for-5-year-old-girl-raped-by-muslim-migrants-perps-remain-unpunished/comment-page-1#comment-1462845