The Catholic Archdiocese of Melbourne has issued greetings to Muslims on the occasion of the feast of Eid al-Fitr. The Very Reverend Denis Stanley, Episcopal Vicar for Ecumenical and Interfaith Relations for the Melbourne Archdiocese, wrote:
The Catholic Archdiocese of Melbourne would like to extend its best wishes to the Muslim community in Victoria and Australia on the occasion of Eid al-Fitr, the Feast of the Breaking of the Fast, celebrated at the end of the sacred month of Ramadan.
The Holy Qur’an was first revealed in the month of Ramadan and had a special purpose:
And We sent down of the Qur’an that which is healing and mercy for the believers…” (Qur’an 17:82). The Prophet Muhammad was also sent as an instrument of God’s mercy: “And We have not sent you (O Muhammad) except as a mercy to the worlds.” (Qur’an 21:107).
Ramadan, therefore, has been a time of reflecting on God’s mercy and preparing oneself to receive it….
Note that Stanley doesn’t write that Muslims believe that the Qur’an was revealed, or that Muhammad was sent as an instrument of God’s mercy. He states these elements of Islamic belief as if they were universally accepted facts.
Does the Catholic Archdiocese of Melbourne, then, believe that the Qur’an was revealed by God, and that Muhammad is a true prophet? Stanley, if challenged (which he will not be) on this point, would probably say no, he was just being generous and ecumenical. Very well. But then why not speak precisely, rather than sow confusion by making what appear to be affirmations of Islamic faith? And when have the Melbourne Archdiocese Muslim partners in “interfaith dialogue” ever made affirmations of Christian faith in a likewise generous and ecumenical spirit? Why, never, of course. They’re more careful, and more aware of what the purpose of the “dialogue” really is.
What’s more: the issuance of such a fulsome and fatuous message, with no reference whatsoever to the Christians being exiled and massacred by believers in the Qur’an and Muhammad and in accord with their teachings, is nothing short of obscene.

Angemon says
Perhaps he should try to practice his “interfaith relations” in Iran or Saudi Arabia…
mortimer says
A well-meaning, totally uninformed useful idiot.
It is a certainty that Denis Stanley has not read the Sira and the hadiths written by pious Muslims which present Mohammed in a very unfavorable light as an opportunist, genocidal warlord, enslaver, rapist, plunderer and unfaithful husband who receives messages from ‘god’ to commend his every evil deed.
Denis Stanley should read the books of fellow Australian theologian Canon Mark Durie.
umbra says
Useful idiot … yes.
Well meaning … perhaps not. Anyone with any cognitive ability or a matured level of comprehension would know what the philosophy and theology of islam is. Sharia also makes it quite clear what this means in practice.
He also teaches at the Catholic Theological College, the place where seminarians undertake academic studies to be future priests.
Bernie Stewart says
Is he indeed teaching at the Catholic Theological College, the place where seminarians undertake academic studies to be future priests?
If that was the case, then he is at the right place to teach and spread confusion.
Rich says
He should also read the parts of the Bible that address baal worship.
Christianblood says
Angemon posted
(..Perhaps he should try to practice his “interfaith relations” in Iran or Saudi Arabia..)
Citation needed!
Western Canadian says
Gee, as if we needed more proof that the paid russian troll was a total moron.
Cecilia Ellis says
In response to Angemon, Christianblood wrote: “Citation needed!”
Ironically, Raymond Ibrahim addressed this very topic in an article entitled, “Saudi Arabia’s Interfaith Hypocrisy.” The following extracts from that article are germane:
“What does one make of the gross contradictions that emerge when a human-rights violating nation calls for “dialogue,” even as it enforces religious intolerance on its own turf?
In principle, it is a decent thing: Christians, Jews, Muslims and others trying to reach a common ground and professing mutual respect. Enter Saudi Arabia. Birthplace of Islam, the Arabian kingdom is also the one Muslim nation that regularly sponsors interfaith initiatives in the West—even as its official policy back home is to demonize and persecute the very faiths it claims to want to have an interfaith dialogue with.”
. . .
“Even the State Department’s most recent internal religious freedom report on Saudi Arabia notes that “freedom of religion is neither recognized nor protected under the law and is severely restricted in practice. The public practice of any religion other than Islam is prohibited, and there is no separation between state and religion.”
. . .
“In this context, what, exactly, do they wish to talk about? Do they wish to talk about how the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia—yet another top-ranked Saudi religious official—declared that it is “necessary to destroy all the churches of the region,” basing his verdict on the commands of Muslim prophet Mohammad?”
—–
Hopefully, Raymond Ibrahim’s article satisfies your demand for a “citation.” The article, which is available with the mere click of a mouse, goes into much greater detail. But you know that, don’t you?
http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/saudi-arabias-interfaith-hypocrisy
gravenimage says
“Christianblood” wrote:
Angemon posted
(..Perhaps he should try to practice his “interfaith relations” in Iran or Saudi Arabia..)
Citation needed!
………………………..
Of course, this is not a genuine query from “Christianblood”, who is just taunting Anti-Jihadist Angemon–but I will treat it as such nonetheless:
“The Perils Of Religious Persecution In Iran”
http://www.forbes.com/sites/dougbandow/2013/05/13/the-perils-of-religious-persecution-in-iran/#1f71074c6441
“Christian Persecution in Saudi Arabia”
https://www.opendoorsusa.org/christian-persecution/world-watch-list/saudi-arabia/
There are, of course, thousands more examples.
Angemon says
gravenimage posted:
“Of course, this is not a genuine query from “Christianblood””
Indeed. I suspect he’s trying to graduate from “Piggy’s University of NO U” and that he’ll try to serve me my response to him the next time he tries to offer some absurdity as a proven fact and I ask him to back it up.
DFD says
Christianblood says to Angemon: “……….Iran or Saudi Arabia..) … Citation needed!”
Are you writing “that stuff” yourself?
Angemon says
Citation of what, CB? That perhaps he should try practising his “interfaith relations” in Iran or Saudi Arabia? That’s a remark I made so my post is all the citation you need.
MS Case says
What has happened to the religious leaders all over the world. Has someone put some strange drug in their drinking water? Is there something in the airr that only they and political leaders breathe? Has some kind of Islamic guru put a spell on them? Have they drank from the polluted pool of stupidness?….something must be hapoening.Surely from what has been seen over the last few years, in the world of religious leaders, even the pope, there is something unprecedented happening that has never been seen before in history …. Some rational answers please.
gravenimage says
“political correctness” is affecting religious people just as it is the secular. It is as simple–and dangerous–as that.
dave oliver says
or Australia some years down the road.
Mark Swan says
What I have tried to demonstrate here is the absurd claim that Muslims have to any legitimacy at all.
Son of man, when a land sins against Me by persistent unfaithfulness, I will stretch out My hand against it—
—even though Noah, Daniel, and Job were in it, as I live, says the Lord God, they would deliver neither son nor daughter; they would deliver only themselves by their righteousness. (Ezekiel 14: 13,20)
So when the Muslim claim Ishmael as their connection to Abraham—let them hear this, and consider it—
Then the Angel of the LORD called to Abraham a second time out of heaven, and said: ‘By Myself I have sworn, says the LORD, because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son—
blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies. In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice’”
That Only Son Was Isaac—-God did not recognize any other son—none.
When Hagar and Ishmael showed contempt for Sarah and Isaac—Sarah told Abraham to send them both away—God agreed by saying do not worry about the child—not recognizing him as a legitimate son of Abraham—what God did was show no other claims to the bloodline was possible—absolutely none.
The same genealogy of Christ—the line of descent from an ancestor or earlier form, especially that of a specific person or family—
A Royal Blood line came from this genealogy—So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations.
Mary His Mother and Her Husband Joseph were of this blood line.
This may not mean much to carnal man—but it does to the God.
No one can steal their way into any of this.
God has a master plan in place, which can not be altered from accomplishing what He wants.
Cecilia Ellis says
Mark Swan wrote: “No one can steal their way into any of this.”
Overall excellent comment! Hard to choose, but I settled on your above statement as my favorite sentence.
Mark Swan says
Thank You Cecilia—sincerely—You know when I start out to write something relevant,
on a topic, it can be mis-understood—but I do try to make it clear.
MS Case says
God did promise to make of Ishmael a great nation but that nation would not be a nation of God and God did not bless that nation as he did the Children of Israel.
Of course the stupidness in Islam can not see that…….
DFD says
Excellent post Mark!
Mark Swan says
Thank You DFD—This Priest needs to understand that nothing is Holy unless God makes it so—the word means set-apart by God, for God’s purpose—it is only applied by God to something good and special to God—If this Man was a true servant of God—He could not use the word Holy with the word Quran.
harbidoll says
we havnt seen any Priests kidnapped not Catholic churches burnt down lately have we. Hummmm
Jay Boo says
“Note that Stanley doesn’t write that Muslims believe that the Qur’an was revealed, or that Muhammad was sent as an instrument of God’s mercy. He states these elements of Islamic belief as if they were universally accepted facts.”
————————————————————————————————-
Yes, so typical for Left leaners.
In addition this is heretical.
Why would any Christian preacher feel a need to explain (anything) about Islam — other than its inherent hatred of Christianity?
Ralph Statum says
Romans 1: 18-32 God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,[g] in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.
Johan Elzinga says
Wow. This is quite as terrifying as anything in the Quran or the Hadith. Is the bible that bad too?
Mark Swan says
Read It For Your Self
Vlad says
My email addressed to the Arch-bishop of Melbourne (Dennis Hart) and Bishop of Ballarat (Paul Bird) is below:
Dear Gentlemen,
I trust you had a good Easter in remembrance of our Lord’s sacrifice. Crucifixion as a method of execution is alive and well in the Middle East and wherever the dark lord rules, as explained in this circular. I don’t understand your silence, but that is up to your conscience and to Your Judgement Day.
Stop ISIS’s Genocide of Christians Sign Our Petition: Defend Dying Christians from Genocide.
Jay Sekulow
ACLJ Chief Counsel )
Best regards
Vlad
The Bishop of Ballarat’s reply below
On 29/03/2016 4:18 PM, Paul Bird wrote:
> Dear Vlad,
> The massacre in Lahore on Easter Sunday was indeed a terrible crime, rightly condemned by Pope Francis and other world leaders. As Pope Francis said, violence and murderous hatred lead only to pain and destruction; respect and fraternity are the only way to achieve peace. I join the Pope in praying that this Easter season will bring greater peace to our very troubled world.
> God bless you, Vlad.
> Paul Bird
> Bishop of Ballarat
My reply below
Thank you for your email. I would like you to know the following:
1. I have Muslim friends that actually are as aghast as am I about the murderous deeds done in the name of Islam, unfortunately, when one reads the trilogy of Islam, Muslims are commanded to commit those crimes.
Under the strict rulings of the Koran, Hadits and Siras, my friends would be classified as apostates which attracts the death penalty under Sharia Law.
2. Appeasement does not work. History should have taught all of us this. In my family, I had an uncle in the SS and another Uncle fighting against the Nazi regime. Both died.
3. Paul, I have NO time for Pope Francis, bring back Pope Benedict and his views and knowledge. Evil must be opposed at all levels and at all costs.
No, I do not hate Muslims as such as they are being used by the Islamic hierarchy, just like Germans were during the Hitler years. The only answer: Don’t pander to the Devil’s religion and oppose their demands for Sharia or any other religious demands of any nature. Muslims MUST accept democracy and our way of life. Nobody forces them to live in the west, I am happy to see all Muslims to live in a “Sharia Law” Country, if they wish to live under Sharia Law.
I am also happy to live with Muslims provided that they live according to our Laws and our Democracy. Democracy and it’s freedoms not for sale and is not to be squandered for any reason whats-o-ever.
Best regards
Vlad
My comments: The Unholy Catholic Church has gone whoring itself at the direction of the Unholy Pope Francis. It wont be long before they sell their Churches to the devil.
Jerry says
Impressive Vlad, you do good work.
Jay Boo says
Jerry
You are easily impressed.
Jerry says
Your childish sarcasm has no place in my life. Go eat a doughnut, you’re crabby.
Jay Boo says
Vladimir starts out as apparently anti-jihad then finishes like a typical anti-Catholic troll.
In between Vladimir finds time to defend Muslims though.
” I have Muslim friends that actually are as aghast as am I about the murderous deeds done in the name of Islam…”
AND
“No, I do not hate Muslims as such as they are being used by the Islamic hierarchy, just like Germans were during the Hitler years.”
AND
“I am also happy to live with Muslims provided that they live according to our Laws and our Democracy”
—————————————————
Vladimir
Finally ending with his real purpose to cause division with his blanket condemnation of Cat holism to the delight of every atheist parasite like (Jerry the FELON).
Vlad says
God bless you my Son with wisdom and you need lots of it.
Now say 3 Holy bloody Mary’s and slap yourself 🙂
Thought_Weaver says
Roflmao Vlad….I think I can hear the slaps from India too?
Johan Elzinga says
I agree. You are doing excellent work. Keep it up!
Excellent job that this now is disclosed.
Western Canadian says
This is the same vlad who condemns ALL churches equally? Can you say SCREAMING HYPOCRITE!!!
Vlad says
“Can you say SCREAMING HYPOCRITE!!!”
Yes WC, now look in a mirror, pull the chain and flush it ” 🙂
Champ says
You **are** a “SCREAMING HYPOCRITE”!! And your nasty comment to Joseph, on another thread, proves it beyond measure leaving zero doubt.
Jay Boo says
Yes W. C.
Vladimir is a divisive troll but dual agenda commenters like the anti-Jesus (FELON Jerry) will encourage him all the same.
Champ says
Exactly, Jay Boo!
Angemon says
Vlad seems to be a graduate of the “Thought_Weaver School for Pissing on Christians””
Thought_Weaver says
Lol! Actually there is no need for me to piss on Christians. They are already in deep shit??
Johan Elzinga says
Wow… I never saw any of Vlad’s previous comments in any blog. BUT I must say, that his email to this church representative was well written and he put his finger on the sore spot. What is it with those people that then start to scream and shout at him? Might there be some sour spot there that he touched as well?
As far as I’m concerned, Vlad made a good point here. Good thing it gets discussed.
Mirren10 says
Good email, Vlad.
did you get any response to the second one ?
Vlad says
Sadly, no!
The Unholy Catholic Church is in league with the “Dark Side” since Papa Benedict had to abdicate. Not all Catholic Priests agree with the present direction, though.
Glorfindel says
There is a huge problem with Catholic Catechism #841, inserted in response to Vatican II (Lumen Gentium and Nostra Aetate). This was adopted by soft-hearted but mushy-brained and historically bereft people, and refers to Muslims as those “who profess the faith of Abraham”. Professing, in fact, is pure Taqiyya. It’s garbage. Why can’t the Catholic Church look at Jesus’ test for false prophets: By their fruit you will know them?
The Church should take as the Gold Standard the fruit of the (Holy) Spirit as defined by Paul in Galatians 5:22: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.
And then look at the fruit of Islam – these UPSIDE DOWN: hate, misery, violence as a way of being, but ranting and murderous intolerance, cruelty and callousness, unrelenting evil, and a complete lack of this especially by Muslim men.
Where is the theological and spiritual discernment?
Calling Mohammed a prophet (as a fact) is monstrous. And calling him instrument of God’s mercy is a bloody abomination.
Salome says
Which Abraham, the one who nearly sacrificed Isaac or the one who nearly sacrificed Ishmael? They don’t even believe in the same Abraham. Perhaps ‘Abrahamic’ faiths means ‘faiths that have someone called Abraham in their stories, but not necessarily the same one’.
Mubarak says
What about calling Mohammed and his religion God’s judgment and The Catholic Archdiocese of Melbourne their fellow travelers?:
“For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?”
Lizzy says
The Catholic and Anglican Churches either know more than the average Joe with regard to islam and are shit scared so appease and pander to them or they are bonkers.
One or the other.
mortimer says
Not all clergy are this delusional. I know many who are alert. The churches all have to start realizing their duty to reach Muslims.
abad says
Exactly.
The mindful Christian leaders are supposed to be converting Muslims to Christianity so that their souls can be saved from the clutches of Satan (Allah).
Meanwhile:
Muslims want to kill you.
Christians want to convert you.
Kay says
Christ wants you to be free and to have a full life.
Greyhound Fancier says
But the leftists still can’t make a distinction between Methodists and Muslims.
gravenimage says
Mortimer wrote:
Not all clergy are this delusional. I know many who are alert. The churches all have to start realizing their duty to reach Muslims.
……………………….
It’s great if churches reach out to Muslims. But it is also important that they work to protect Christians and other innocent people from the depredations of Islam.
Christians are in danger of out and out genocide in the Middle East. they are being enslaved, used as sex slaves, and mass murdered in places like the Islamic State.
Jerry says
It’s easy for fools like this to reach out to islam, he still has his head. He has good food, a comfortable home, plenty of sheep to call him “father,” Islam has never hurt him so he can afford to extend the hand of kindness. To me people like this are weak appeasers, they aren’t affected by islam’s bad influence so they think it’s wise to spit on the victims by cajoling muslims. What Stanley and the Archdiocese of Melbourne should be doing is extending best wishes and help to those Christians and others persecuted, raped and homeless because of Islam. This just goes to show the callous indifference they have for people of their own faith who have suffered mass persecution to the point of extinction in various muslim communities. It can hardly make Christ proud to see Christian leaders act so cowardly in the face of evil. At a minimum I’d say Christ was a courageous man who fought the establishment, he condemned hypocrisy, and he had compassion for others. But what this is here is the exact opposite. They are weak and fawning when they should courageous and condemning.
Ramadan, therefore, has been a time of reflecting on God’s mercy and preparing oneself to receive it….
It’s also been a time of murder, rape, and pillage. But you’re safe, Stanley. So keep up the good work. And yes, that’s sarcasm.
t. says
Jerry,
Reflecting on all your comments, from past ones on previous JW posts up to this current one, you come across as an honest person who has been searching for the truth, for a long time, and who likes to talk directly from his heart. I think that I am getting more and more to know you.
Jerry says
Probably the nicest online compliment I’ve ever gotten. I promise I won’t let it go to my head. 🙂
Western Canadian says
Too late!!!
Mark Swan says
I liked Your Comment Jerry—Now hold that thought—we are in this together—friend.
gravenimage says
We stand together, Jerry!
Jerry says
Thanks. I value your compliment.
Jerry says
(Oops, that was meant for Mirren)
Jerry says
Yes, we do. Or like the famous saying goes, we hang together.
Mirren10 says
Good post, Jerry.
Jerry says
Thanks. I value your compliment.
JIMJFOX says
I believe ALL religions stick together in defence of their various lunatic Faiths.
Therefore it comes as no surprise when a church leader, be he Christian, Jewish,
Hindu, Sikh, Taoist, whatever tries to excuse Islam or equate it with some part of their own dogma. All sh*t stinks, as do ALL religions. And they wallow in their communal filthy stench.
Jerry says
I believe ALL religions stick together in defence of their various lunatic Faiths.
I’d say there’s much truth in that. Birds of a feather flock together.
Jerry says
(Probably not the most suitable idiom, but close enough)
Mo says
@ JIMJFOX
“I believe ALL religions stick together in defence of their various lunatic Faiths.”
LOL! You can “believe” whatever you want. That doesn’t make it so.
“Therefore it comes as no surprise when a church leader, be he Christian, Jewish,
Hindu, Sikh, Taoist, whatever tries to excuse Islam or equate it with some part of their own dogma. All sh*t stinks, as do ALL religions. And they wallow in their communal filthy stench.”
Religions don’t all teach the same things. You’d know that, if you’d bothered to investigate any of them, instead of just being an ignorant, hate filled bigot.
Be gone, troll. This site is about Islam. (Which you know nothing about, if you’re claiming all religions are the same.)
Jerry says
Religions don’t all teach the same things.
That’s true, but the vast majority are based on the same things, irrational and superstitious thinking. The “big 3” have all done their share of killing in the name of god, it’s just that islam is the biggest offender today. And I do think your criticism of Jim (and perhaps me) is rather harshly toned. After all he has a valid point, it’s often the case that leaders of the Christian faith and others DO “excuse islam,” from the pope on down. Spencer has criticized the pope himself, but I bet you don’t call him a troll. Some religious leaders seem to think it’s wise or loving, or spiritual, to overlook islam’s violent nature at the expense of others. So I can understand Jim’s disgust. We have here a leader in the church exalting the “holy” koran and Ramadan as a time for “reflecting on god’s mercy.” Never mind the mass murder, never mind the rapes and terror, forget the evil doctrine, let’s just quote koranic scripture and reflect on god’s mercy. So in a way I understand Jim’s point, it sound’s like one nut stroking another when these church folk turn a blind eye to the ugly truth about islam. Jim’s assertion that these religious folk tend to stick together bears a measure of truth, and I think you were more wrong than right in your harsh criticism.
Mirren10 says
”Religions don’t all teach the same things.
That’s true, but the vast majority are based on the same things, irrational and superstitious thinking.”
Really, what nonsense. Most human beings indulge in some form of ”irrational and superstitious thinking”. It’s not a mindset that is confined to *religious* people. And really is not a mindset that could be fairly ascribed to them, with the exception of islam, with its insane ‘jinn’ ideology. I could cite **innumerable** examples of irrational and superstitious thinking, which has no basis in **religion**, per se, but more in the almost universal human need to find meaning in random events.
” … it’s often the case that leaders of the Christian faith and others DO “excuse islam,” from the pope on down. Spencer has criticized the pope himself, but I bet you don’t call him a troll. Some religious leaders seem to think it’s wise or loving, or spiritual, to overlook islam’s violent nature at the expense of others.”
Now that I agree with. These spiritual ‘leaders’ are nothing more, really, than cowards who, in my opinion, actually have **no faith whatsoever** in the religions they claim to profess. My animus is particularly against **Christian** spiritual ‘leaders’, since the Bible is so specific and damning against their behaviour. The only conclusion to come to is that they don’t actually believe a word of it.
Jerry says
Mirren,
I don’t feel like this is a point worth defending, I don’t really care how right or wrong I am. I’m an atheist who thinks religion has been a curse on humanity and that’s why Jim’s comment struck a chord with me. I simply wanted to give him a “high five” and move on, I don’t want to get into another one of those knock down debates with you about nothing. Maybe I’ll wrestle you in the future if it’s worth it, not this time. Thanks.
Mark Swan says
Good thinking Jerry—enough is enough—right
Mirren10 says
JIMJFOX says:
”I believe ALL religions stick together in defence of their various lunatic Faiths.”
So, does it make no difference whatsoever, what the **tenets** of these faiths might be ? Do the tenets of faith make no difference in the behaviour of its adherents ?
Such a vapidly stupid comment.
Greyhound Fancier says
Religions do not “stick together” to defend their faith. In fact, there is often friction between religions, e.g. Hindus and Muslims.
Members of some religions defend their faith – but these days Christians often do not. When Christians treat Islam as a legitimate religion, and feel a need to recognize Islamic celebrations like Ramadan, and call anything Islamic “holy”, they are not defending their faith.
Mirren10, I believe you are right that many do not believe their scriptures, and they don’t believe a word of it. That is sad, and I wish that people who don’t believe would go earn an honest living and not teach us in the pews according to their agenda. Teachers are held to a higher and more responsible standard in the bible, and they who presume to teach must recognize that.
Mark Swan says
Very Good Point That last sentence
gravenimage says
Actually, this is all about “political correctness”. Secularists are just as apt to engage in this as are people of faith.
The fact is that Christians bravely fought Islam in Europe *for centuries*. This appeasement is not anything intrinsic to religion. It cuts across Western society, I’m afraid.
Mark Swan says
Yes it does
Mirren10 says
”The fact is that Christians bravely fought Islam in Europe *for centuries*. This appeasement is not anything intrinsic to religion. It cuts across Western society, I’m afraid.”
Yes, they did.
But I think, as leaders of the Christian faith, if they **truly** believed what Christ states in the NT, they would **not** be in full appeasement mode, *now*. As leaders of Christianity, now, they have a duty and responsibility to their flocks, and they are miserably failing to deliver either.
Secular people who are in thrall to pc/mc, whilst pusillanimous, are not in the position of these Christian ‘leaders’.
duh+swami says
If Islam, the Quran and Mahound are so wonderful, why has his grace not performed shahada and sign up…or maybe he already has…A Mahoundian is a woeshipper of Mahoubd…looks like the fool has a replacement for Jesus,,,
He’s kicky Christians don’t kill apostates…
Kay says
A true Christian could not apostate.
Jesus said
I AM the way and the truth and the life.
But people get niceness and kindness confused. It is nice to agree with everyone and everything, to not take a stand against murderous “religion “. But it is kind to tell the truth and to lead people to freedom.
duh+swami says
Is this priest a ‘true’ Christi9on? Sounds like an apostate to me…
Greyhound Fancier says
And unlike the Moslims, we won’t put out a contract on the fellow to have him killed.
Mirren10 says
”Is this priest a ‘true’ Christi9on? Sounds like an apostate to me…”
Indeed.
John Marst says
Catholic clerics like this fellow, and of course Pope Dhimmi the First, are naive in a dimly-lit, Marxist sort of way, which makes them particularly pernicious.
Nigel GFF says
“… sacred month of Ramadan …”
“… The Holy Qur’an was first revealed in the month of Ramadan…”
https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=33939
I’m tempted to say something like ‘How dare he use terms such as ‘sacred’ and ‘holy’ in conjunction with islam’, but I won’t. I will suggest a dictionary (or The CCC) and ask his understanding of the alpha and omega of holiness.
Nigel GFF says
Apologies, I should have said that the CCC is a short-hand – ‘Catechism of the Catholic Church’.
Greyhound Fancier says
Ramadan nor the Quran are sacred to me or any other Christian, and the Quran was given to Mohammed the Pedophile Prophet in a cave, where it should have been left and buried in the 7th century.
If you don’t have anything nice [or true] to say don’t say anything – so Christian leaders, please leave Islamic celebrations alone.
خَليفة says
Sounds like he has been eating the edible Koran
You are what you eat
If Koran is the word of Allah
Then Eating Koran turns your body into the word of Allah
Allah knows best
Mirren10 says
You know, DustyFae, your posts are getting more and more insane and weird. I think your heart’s in the right place, but your brain is out to lunch.
By the way, why do you **never ever** reply to anyone directly ?
CrossWare says
The Pope and his people are restructuring the business and opening for a new market. Their church going flock dwindles as more and more people become secular, atheist or at least figures out they can be religious without an organized business. In the meantime here are the Muslims growing fast like cancer. Fully indoctrinated, killing each other if anyone tries to leave or reform and eager to execute any command given by their religious leaders. What a wet dream comes true for a professional liar. What a good life with prospect and business opportunities. Of course there are some small things like betraying your old faith and old believers. Well who gives a hoot. Soon they will be dead and the new flock will only read the Quran and will not be interested what happened some time ago.
gravenimage says
If fools like Denis Stanley wanted to become Muslims, they would just convert.
Kay says
I don’t know what he thinks he’s doing, perhaps being all things to all people. But he stopped short of his Christian calling: to proclaim Christ (and Him crucified).
Moreover he is abandoning his responsibility to his own flock and leading them astray.
I wish that when groups of Muslim immigrants entered western countries (as we haven’t been able to stop it yet) that they would be met with signs with select Bible verses (e.g. God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.) and letting them know they would now be able to hear the truth about Jesus.
For how can they believe if they haven’t heard?
WorkingClassPost says
Those ‘Christians’ who welcomed them, were too busy taking down crosses and anything else that might offend those who were supposedly traumatised by the war in Syria, yet it is a country that most of them had never even set foot in.
umbra says
He might have been thinking about improving his profile for a possible future promotion. After all, the bishop of Rome is into the ROP thing.
WillG says
They would not listen because they are brainwashed to believe the following about Jesus, and they also know that to leave Islam for Christianity would be punishable by death… “Muslims are taught that Jesus did exist. But for them, as there is no Christian God, only Allah, who had no children, Jesus (or Isa) was not the son of God, but HUMAN. He was just another prophet like Muhammad, and a MUSLIM prophet at that. The Qoran teaches that he was not crucified, but when he died he was taken up to Paradise by Allah. Worse still, at the End of Days, Muslims believe that this Isa will return to Earth, not as the saviour of Christian mankind, but as a radical Muslim who will “break crosses” and enforce Islam on every living being. When this is done, he will die and be buried next to Muhammad”.
Jack says
Kay Muslims would be as accepting to Bible verses as much as you would be to accepting Quran verses. Muslims believe they’re superior to non-Muslims and have several names for us. The ones that have became Christians cannot live around their former friends because they would risk being murdered.
WorkingClassPost says
quran.com has this for 17:82
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
And We send down of the Qur’an that which is healing and mercy for the believers, but it does not increase the wrongdoers except in loss.
So the ‘mercy’ is for muzzies only, and then for those who don’t believe in the horror of islam, we are called wrongdoers, and we all know what lahlah prescribes for ‘wrongdoers’ – so the ‘loss’ probably refers to someone’s head.
The second quote is one of those spoken in a mire of nonsensical mumbo jumbo which is what the koran does when it’s not actually describing hateful and hellish actions to be perpetrated on the unsuspecting.
Why would this priest be so duplicitous and stupid?
Kay says
It’s easy to be stupid and even easier to be ignorant.
Maybe he thought if they could know God as mercy they could really know God. It might have worked in a 1:1 interaction; but it was entirely out of place and confusing and misleading when given a public and international stage.
WorkingClassPost says
Kay, you are obviously a very kind person, but I fear you are being too kind to this man.
His shortening of the quote, to give an illusion of mercy which is patently untrue, is false, under any circumstance, but given the cruelty and violence that Christians are suffering, it borders on blasphemy by insinuating some equivalence between our Bible, and the koran.
If I said for example; ‘You are free to vote, as long as you vote for me’, then omitting the qualifier is nothing less than a lie.
What is probably more revealing about that despicable arab fable, is that, in all it’s gruesome pages, this man could find barely one line that he might quote entirely, without editing out it’s stinging, nasty tail.
Kay says
Yes, probably.
It seems to me that too many Christians (of many backgrounds) think they are being the “good Samaritan” but they forget that the wounded man on the side of the road had been accosted, not that he was accosting others, and they forget their own endangered and slaughtered brethren in other parts of the world. They want to show mercy, but for some reason they’re having a hard time identifying the victims.
Sadly, I believe actually that we are living the story of Gethsemane or even the via dolorosa.
But we need a secular, temporal solution. The Church’s realm is the eternal.
As I said before, from what I’ve seen, this man neglected to proclaim Christ, which was his duty as both Christian and in his role of leadership. He neglected his witness and confused his flock.
Mark Swan says
2 John 1: 9-11
Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
John A. Marre says
Looks like this cleric has a fundamental misunderstanding of Christianity and Islam. Could it be because the Pope thinks that way too?
Kay says
The Pope believes in taking care of the poor people regardless of what governments are doing. Christians and Jews the world over extend kindness and humanitarian aid to all, including Muslims.
There are governmental systems that allow humans to flourish (and others that don’t). This is also our earthly responsibility.
Dennis says
Another guy to ask. Why were there Crusades?
Kay says
“The Crusades were a response to unprovoked Muslim aggression against Christian states, as well as a response to the enslavement, killing, and persecution of countless followers of Christ. . . . they were a military answer to military attack.”
CogitoErgoSum says
The Quran is NOT holy and Muhammad was NOT a prophet sent by God. No Catholic, no Christian, no human being should have any doubt about this. Those who sow doubt in the minds of the people about the truth of this also sow doubt about the mission of Christ and are, in effect, working against His teachings and His words ….. especially Matthew 28:16-20.
Voytek Gagalka says
My dog nowadays knows probably more about Qur’an than this “Very Reverend” Denis Stanley. Total abandonment of Christian faith! Praising Mohammed? Is he out of his freaking mind??? His ancient predecessors were more willing to stand the ground against this scourge of Islam than he and his colleagues. Despicable!
Alan McCloy says
This type of cowardice is even worse than the child abuse scandal and it’s about time that the congregation told them this in no uncertain terms.
Mark A says
The terms “Very Reverend” and “Episcopal Vicar” suggest that this guy is an Anglican minister, not a Roman Catholic priest.
That indicates this is an Anglican initiative, not a Roman Catholic one.
WorkingClassPost says
Good spot.
Maybe he represents another church within the Catholic Archdiocese, he is on the interfaith committee, after all.
Kay says
http://www.ctc.edu.au/Teaching-Staff/Lecturers/Denis-Stanley
Sad. Because as I understand it, one can have any manner of false beliefs . . . as long as one isn’t teaching them to others.
dumbledoresarmy says
Not Anglican.
He is indeed from the Catholic church in Australia.
I looked him up.
He is a parish priest at St Francis Xavier’s, Frankston, Melbourne.
http://www.ctc.edu.au/Teaching-Staff/Lecturers/Denis-Stanley
“Very Rev. Denis Stanley EV is a member of the Department of Systematic Theology. He lectures on Ecumenism, and is a priest of the Catholic Archdiocese of Melbourne, and the parish priest of St Francis Xavier, Frankston. In February 2010 he was appointed the Episcopal Vicar for Ecumenism and Inter-faith Relations, and Chair of the Archdiocesan Ecumenical and Inter-faith Commission.”
and you’ll find him here, if you just scroll down and pay attention to the names.
http://www.catholicdirectory.com.au/diocese/melbourne
The Anglicans have plenty of dhimmi fools, of course, but this particular dhimmi fool is not one of them, he’s an embarrassment for the Catholics not the Anglicans.
WorkingClassPost says
They’ve managed to add a new expression to the language:-
We’ve often heard of ‘an embarrassment of riches’
But these guys are an embarrassment of idiots.
Champ says
The Holy Qur’an was first revealed in the month of Ramadan and had a special purpose:
And We sent down of the Qur’an that which is healing and mercy for the believers…” (Qur’an 17:82). The Prophet Muhammad was also sent as an instrument of God’s mercy: “And We have not sent you (O Muhammad) except as a mercy to the worlds.” (Qur’an 21:107).
Ramadan, therefore, has been a time of reflecting on God’s mercy and preparing oneself to receive it….
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Not a word of truth there …
For one thing the quran in not “holy”, but instead wholly evil and a manual for murder, and ‘prohet’ muhammad was an evil perp, too. And Ramadan is NOT a time to reflect on God’s mercy–it’s a time of murder & mayhem for mohammedans!
And to those that believe this rubbish ..snap out of it! The truth about islam & company is ugly, I know; nevertheless, embracing the truth is better than believing a bunch of lies. You’re welcome.
Mirren10 says
”Stanley, if challenged (which he will not be) on this point, would probably say no, he was just being generous and ecumenical.”
Which he should be challenged on. He is a Cardinal, he is supposed to stand up and protect his faith. The members of his diocese should **demand** he do this. And spit in his foul face if he continues his disgraceful dereliction of duty,
WillG says
Just one small problem for foolish – and dangerous – Christians who insist on defending Islam… Yes, Muslims are taught that Jesus did exist. But for them, as there is no Christian God, only Allah, who had no children, Jesus (or Isa) was not the son of God, but HUMAN. He was just another prophet like Muhammad, and a MUSLIM prophet at that. The Qoran teaches that he was not crucified, but when he died he was taken up to Paradise by Allah. Worse still, at the End of Days, Muslims believe that this Isa will return to Earth, not as the saviour of Christian mankind, but as a radical Muslim who will “break crosses” and enforce Islam on every living being. When this is done, he will die and be buried next to Muhammad. It is incomprehensible that any Christian can stand side-by-side with Muslims, knowing that they reject everything that their religion is based on.
Greyhound Fancier says
You make good points, and to bring them out further, for a Christian the Mohammedan teachings on Jesus are possibly the worst thing about Islam. Mohammedans think they know all about Jesus, making it more difficult for them to learn more about Jesus, to get to know Him and love Him.
That is why Mohammedanism is from the pit of hell.
Greyhound Fancier says
Mohammed was no instrument of mercy, unless you mean mercy killing. The Catholic Church still opposes that as far as I know.
Das Karl says
His sloppy words echo Hillary Clinton’s evaluation of islamic jihad = What difference does it make?
Obviously, HIS lack of true faith allows him to lump everyoe together because, after all…(see above)
Rita says
I used to think the attacks on Catholic Priests regarding a quasi institutionalised Paedophilia was a witchhunt. Since this new, pathologically islamophilic Pope (at the expense of his own flock it must be said) I dont think so any longer. I am now also strongly suspecting that this guy like his colleagues, favor Islam because of their Sharia-sanctioned child rape.
Vlad says
Birds of a Feather 🙂
Kay says
Ooh, that’s harsh. But not wanting a whole class/group of people to be considered guilty because of some, makes it difficult to be clear thinking about justice. And shame by association silences people as well.
Mo says
@ Jerry
“Mirren,
I don’t feel like this is a point worth defending,”
LOL! That’s the usual response when someone knows they’ve been caught in a falsehood.
“That’s true, but the vast majority are based on the same things, irrational and superstitious thinking.”
Nonsense. The Christian religion is based in facts and history. You’d know that if you’d ever bothered to read the Bible and educate yourself on the topic. You know you haven’t. That’s why you think – or rather “feel” – that your original claim is not a point worth defending. You know you cannot defend it.
gravenimage says
Catholic Archdiocese of Melbourne: Muhammad “instrument of God’s mercy”
…………………..
This is only true if the Very Reverend Denis Stanley believes that child marriage, slavery, sex slavery, beheadings, stonings, and genocide are “merciful”.
This is one of those grim situations where you *hope* the speaker is an utter ignoramus, because the alternative is much, much worse.
Sergio says
These people do not worship Jesus, but Political Correctness. They betray the Gospel for the sake of appeasing the Left.
MoreHamEd says
I didn’t read all posts so forgive me if this was already mentioned. I’ve read that the Catholic Church created islam for the purpose of taking control of Jerusalem. That Mohammed’s first wife was actually an agent of the Catholic Church who was sent to prepare and convince him that he was a prophet and her cousin or relative was the one who wrote down the supposed messages allah gave to Mohammed.
dumbledoresarmy says
Nonsense.
Kepha says
Agreed. I make no bones about being a God-bless-King-Billy (of Orange) Protestant, but the idea that the Papacy created Islam is utterly preposterous. I’m not sure that Ms. Khadijah could’ve possibly had much knowledge of the Rome of Sabinian, Boniface III, Boniface IV, Deusdedit, and Boniface V. She may have had some hazy idea of what Jews and Syriac-using Christians believed, but nothing I have seen in the Qur’an gives the slightest hint that either Khadijah or Muhammad had any knowledge of Latin Christendom; and what they might have known of Syriac, Greek, or Coptic Christendom was pretty garbled.
From the third Sura (al-Imran), it seems that Muhammad probably had heard Luke 1 read (there are clear parallels to the Gospel’s story of Zacharias the father of John the Baptist) and the 2d century apocryphal Protevangelium of James (which, I gather, may have had an Egyptian provenance), from which he got much of hiss material on Mary (although it is also hard to escape the conclusion that he confuses Miriam the sister of Moses with Mary[Miriam] mother of Jesus–at least if Dawood’s translation is correct).
I also suspect that there may be far more material in the Qur’an that was lifted from the Jewish Midrash than there is anything remotely unique to Latin Christendom.
Still, as for this Melbourne archdiocese, it makes me sick to think that a professed Christian could call Ramadan observance a preparation for divine grace. It is the celebration of the giving of a book that denies the death of Jesus Christ on the cross–which those Melbourne prelates ought to recognize as the point at which atonement was made for our sins.
Yes, be polite and neighborly to your Muslim neighbors. Maybe it will open the door for an effective witness. But I cannot for a minute accept that Muhammad was a prophet of the God of the Old and New Testaments.
Mirren10 says
”I’ve read that the Catholic Church created islam for the purpose of taking control of Jerusalem. That Mohammed’s first wife was actually an agent of the Catholic Church … ”
I’ve read that 12 million of your countrymen believe the US is run by lizard people. The one is as likely as the other.
Jack Diamond says
Wow, I wasn’t even aware of this. I was hoping they were at least good lizard people, but it turns out they are “shape-shifting lizard fascists”, er, “illuminati satanist lizards who occupy the highest echelons in society.” Because I now know who David Icke is, who wrote all these lizardy books. An Englishman btw. An eccentric Englishman.
Mirren10 says
”Wow, I wasn’t even aware of this. I was hoping they were at least good lizard people, but it turns out they are “shape-shifting lizard fascists”, er, “illuminati satanist lizards who occupy the highest echelons in society.”
🙂
Don’t you just love our David ?
Jeremiah says
There are similarities between the Papacy and Islam.
Both fought Christianity in Medieval times. Both exacted cruel and unusual punishment for dissent. Islam against the Middle eastern Churches (which challenged the supremacy of the Papacy) while the Papacy was cleaning up the Albigenses and Waldenses. Millions of Christians died on both sides of the Mediterranean.
At the end of this period, the Jesuits were born to support the Papacy with deception and more cruel and unusual punishment. So the Jesuit Oath reads like passages from the Koran.
The behavior of the Papacy was ambiguous, to say the least, during World War Two. Islam supported Hitler outright in his treatment of Jews.
We now have a Jesuit Pope. He is busy kissing the Koran and embracing Islam whenever he can. The fact that the Catholic Church has used the Bible for the last 50 years, seems to be lost on the Pope. He says that God has commanded him to change the Ten Commandments to make them look like Sharia law. He has stated that Mohammad is a prophet and that Jesus is but a man. He says that the Koran is equivalent to the Bible and that Islam serves the same God as Christians
All the while, Catholics are meeting their deaths at the hand of Islam. Surely Catholics must be confused by the actions in the Vatican?
This cooperation of the Vatican with Islam would be mind boggling, except that something like this was predicted in Revelations.
Jack Diamond says
Who actually fought and defeated Muslim invasions of Europe and Christendom?
Pius V called the Catholic League to fight the Ottoman navy, the most powerful in the world, and which defeated them at Lepanto in 1571. Innocent XI brought together a coalition of Catholics to confront and defeat the Ottomans at Vienna in 1683. Were you aware that among the Ottoman forces at Lepanto were Protestant allies, and at Vienna too? Explain that. John Sobieski, king of Poland who defeated the Muslim Turks, was a Roman Catholic. Not a Protestant.
Just as it was the Church behind the earlier defense of Christendom against the first Islamic invasion, leading to the victory at Tours, and who first called for the expulsion of the Muslims from the Holy Land over the terrible persecutions of Christians. This was not cooperating with Islam.
Opposing the current woeful dhimmitude of churches, Catholic and Protestant, is one thing. An anti-Catholic screed trying to equate it with Islam and the Beast of Revelation, is a whole other can of garbage.
Thought_Weaver says
How ignorant can one be? Humans never fail to amaze.
somehistory says
The devil lied and Eve was deceived by his lie. She believed it to be true. She should have gone to the source of her life and her eternal welfare and asked for further clarification. But Eve did not do what she was told…refrain from eating a particular fruit…and she did not do what she should have done…gone to God, or even Adam, to find out who it was that was telling her to eat and “be like God.”
This fool, and others like him who have previously said such things, and others who will soon be saying these, know better. The Bible clearly says *Who* is to be worshipped and how to worship.
If this fool has not read his Bible, he should do so. If he has, he should know that what he is doing is a sin against the Holy Spirit.
If…big if…he has been deceived by satan as was Eve, then he should seek God’s Word to find the real truth of the matter.
Spouting off lies and disgusting proclamations about this evil, filthy, child of satan to make himself look good to moslims and *intelligent* to the rest of humanity will not bring him closer to our Creator.
Soon the beast will be destroyed by Christ. And all on the side of the beast…whether practicing outright or telling lies like satan…are making themselves enemies of God by their spiritual adultery. All of them are facing the same destination as the beast.
John Keenan says
This is not true ecumenism but untoward appeasement.
Rami Sivan says
Unbelievable how these religious leaders make such affirmative statements about stuff they have never studied! Why don’t they just shut the f**** up!!
Jack Diamond says
Think how quiet it would be if everyone stopped talking about stuff they never studied.
I’m all for this Peace (and Quiet) Movement.
Trouble is stupid doesn’t know it’s stupid. If it did it would be smart.
(I’m starting to sound like duh swami).
In the case of Rev. Stanley, it’s something more sinister than mere stupidity. It smells of betrayal.
Jack says
I’m wondering which will come first the one world religion or the one world government, world wide chaos is needed before that world leader rises up to take control, chaos is starting now in most of Europe with the globalists using the so-called leaders to do their bidding by allowing millions of Muslims into their countries, they cannot be so stupid they cant see what this is doing to the citizens of these countries. America wont be exempt from chaos either, the stage is set so to speak.
Jkissy says
An educated illiterate
talljohn777 says
Can an Archbishop be a heretic…not to mention, a moron? You bet.
G P says
Dear Lord, he’s been drinking from the same cup of stupid that the enfeebled pope has been.
The pope is not a Catholic – you do not kiss the feet of your would-be oppressor. How the invaders must laugh behind his back.
Steve Duke says
Given that the Melbourne Catholic Diocese has been promoting child abuse since 1890 & that as Catholics they are forbidden to read the Bible-What can we really expect? They also have the problem of trying to be relevant in a nation where religion is seen as an optional extra.
Manuele says
Muhammad “instrument of God’s mercy” IS THAT RIGHT. FROM WHICH SIDE IS GOD’S MERCY? I AM CATHOLIC AND I AM SAYING THAT EVERY TIME AND DAY A CATHOLIC PERSON AT THE TOP OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WHERE EVER, IS A SURRENDER TO THE MUSLIMS. I SAY TO THE SHITHEAD THAT HE SHOULD GO AND JOIN THE MURDERERS OF AND RAPISTS OF CHILDREN.
Hessie L Harris says
How mch are they being paid to betray their fath and their followrs? Is the Church really that hard up for funds?