When I have noted the Qur’anic teaching about the sexual slavery of Infidel women, I’ve been excoriated as an “Islamophobe.” But this obviously knowledgeable and once-pious ex-Muslim, Ismaa’eel Abu Adam, here lays out exactly the case I have laid out many times, showing that Islam really does teach that Infidel women can be captured and used as sex slaves. His honesty is refreshing, and shows up the lies of Islamic apologists on this issue.
We cannot have an honest public discussion of these aspects of Islam in the U.S., because any attempt to have one is immediately attacked as “racist” and “Islamophobic.” But this video shows why such a public discussion is so necessary.
There are numerous responses to this video from Muslims. The two most-viewed are here and here. Both invoke Abraham’s being ordered to kill his son as an example of how Allah might command something that the believer doesn’t understand. The first purports to refute the idea that the Qur’an and Muhammad teach the rape of Infidel women, but doesn’t actually address the Qur’an and Hadith passages that the ex-Muslim invokes. The second bypasses that question altogether. Both are masterpieces of tortured reasoning, and the second, in emphasizing how dangerous this ex-Muslim has become, is an unmistakable veiled threat.
(Video thanks to Bodo Staron)
john spielman says
Very good exposition of islam; a theology which the Bible describes as a doctrine of Satan/allah and its founder muhammed, an immoral vile murderous self righteous narcissistic lying thieving sexually perverted demon possessed pedophile false prophet !!!
Jack Holan says
Send infidel female reporters and female camera women (no men) to run a story on IS and let them judge for themselves.
jewdog says
Thank you, Robert – excellent as usual. Don’t worry, I know that was you because I’ve seen the movie, “Invasion of the Body Snatchers”.
Jerry says
I admire people like this, they aren’t afraid to act according to their own good conscience. I’m sure there are many burka-clad women that would like to leave islam but fear for their lives, and so many other muslims too must be smart enough to know that islam is retarded and unethical in so many ways. But they see the establishment cower to islam and that undercuts their confidence to leave and attain spiritual independence. We need to get the word out, in the West no adults should have to be religious under duress. And personally I think some of the religious crap parents impose on children is unethical and life-damaging, but that’s another thread. If we can get more ex-muslims like this to speak against the violence and logical absurdities of islam that will only help us. It must be especially liberating to a muslim once they are free of the jihad hate and filth their faith teaches. I remember how liberated I felt when I divorced Christianity, even though it’s based on good principles it was a relief to rid myself of the historical distortions and mythical additions that turned Jesus the felon into a god. I imagine it will be an even greater relief for muslims to rid themselves of a religion soaked with hateful and retarded principles. Like a slave winning their freedom.
Champ says
Jerry wrote:
I remember how liberated I felt when I divorced Christianity, even though it’s based on good principles it was a relief to rid myself of the historical distortions and mythical additions that turned Jesus the felon into a god.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“Jesus the felon”? No, He was not. That remark is patently false.
And this is Jihad Watch, not Jesus Watch, so take aim at the real enemy: islam and company.
R Russell says
I think you must have met a different Jesus from the one I meet regularly. The Jesus I know is love personified. I would recommend Him as a friend, It doesn’t sound like you met and had and ongoing growing friendship with the Jesus of the Bible. He offers you love, it’s up to you whether you decide to meet Him or not.
Champ says
Hi, R Russell,
Are you addressing me, or Jerry?
🙂
mach37 says
Joan C., what makes you think the “King James” version is perfect? It is a translation of the original Hebrew and Greek into archaic English that is almost incomprehensible today. Other versions have no more changed the words than the King James version did. I recommend you try comparing some of the different versions side by side as is often available online – biblegateway.com is one good source for comparing King James simultaneously with multiple other versions.
Jerry says
And this is Jihad Watch, not Jesus Watch, so take aim at the real enemy: islam and company.
I was taking aim at the “real enemy.” I was using my own personal religious experience to make a point about islam. I’m sure JW doesn’t have a problem with that, even if you do. And I do believe Jesus was a felon, he was convicted of a capital crime and got the death penalty for it. By today’s standards that makes him a felon. I would compare him to Bin Laden, a terrorist against Palestine’s Roman occupiers. It’s entirely possible that there is a god of the universe that rigged his own arrest and conviction for a crime he didn’t commit so he could forgive humanity, I can’t be sure. But I personally can’t accept that god would be so impotent that he must trick others into killing an innocent man before he could forgive humanity of their sins. It’s neither logical or moral. But I’ve been wrong before and I could be wrong about this. But ya know what, even if I’m wrong I know your god will forgive me for my error in thinking. After all, even Thomas doubted and he lived with the real Jesus. If one of Christ’s apostles doubted then how much more should I doubt when all we have is contradictory gospels, bad history, and unsubstantiated claims of the fabulous kind? I’m reminded of that famous quote that Carl Sagan made popular, “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You may be perfectly fine in believing the extraordinary claims about Christ, but without that extraordinary evidence he’s nothing more than a convicted felon who got the death penalty to me.
Okay, back to the “real enemy.”;)
Champ says
Jerry wrote:
And I do believe Jesus was a felon, he was convicted of a capital crime and got the death penalty for it. By today’s standards that makes him a felon. I would compare him to Bin Laden, a terrorist against Palestine’s Roman occupiers.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So, Jerry contends that Jesus was a “felon” because he was convicted of a capital crime and put to death; and there’s no disputing why Jesus was crucified, but was Jesus *truly* guilty, or was Jesus in fact innocent of any crimes? Was Jesus really a “felon”? Of course not!
But that said, here’s an extensive list of the accusations that were actually brought against Jesus that can be found in the Bible. You, the reader, can decide for yourself if Jesus was actually a “felon”, even by “today’s standards”:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://bible.tiddlyspace.com/#AccusationsAgainstJesus
Accusations and Criticisms Brought Against Jesus
by Jon Gary Williams
There are at least thirty-three instances of accusations and criticisms brought against Christ found in the gospel records. Nineteen are found in Matthew, sixteen of which are found also in Mark or Luke. Six are found only in Luke and eight are found only in John. None are found only in Mark.
Matthew (Mark, Luke)
Matt.4:1-10 (Mk.1:12,13; Lk.4:1-12) Challenged (tempted) to prove he was God’s son
Matt.8:34 (Mk.5:17; Lk.8:37) Asked to leave this area
Matt.9:2,3 (Mk.2:7; Lk.5:21) Accused of falsely claiming to forgive sins
Matt.9:11 (Mk.2:16; Lk.5:21) Accused of eating with publicans and sinners
Matt.9:24 (Mk.5:40; Lk.8:53) Laughed to scorn by some who doubted his miracle
Matt.12:2 (Mk.2:24; Lk.6:2) Accused of laboring on the Sabbath
Matt.12:10 (Mk.3:2,6; Lk.6:7) Accused of healing on the Sabbath
Matt.12:24 (Mk.3:22; Lk.11:15) Accused of working by the power of Beelzebub
Matt.12:38 (Lk.11:16) Challenged to show a sign
Matt.15:1-2 (Mk.7:1-5; Lk.11:38,53,54) Accused of breaking a Jewish tradition
Matt.16:1 (Mk.8:11) Challenged to show a sign
Matt.19:3ff (Mk.10:2ff) Challenged on the question of divorce
Matt.21:23 (Mk.11:18,27,28; Lk.20:2) His authority challenged
Matt.22:15ff (Mk.12:13ff; Lk.20:19ff) Challenged on the question of paying taxes
Matt.22:23ff (Mk.12:18ff; Lk.20:27ff) Challenged on the resurrection of the dead
Matt.22:34ff Challenged on which is the greatest commandment
Matt.26:60,61 Accused of falsely claiming to be a prophet
Matt.26:63-65 Accused of falsely claiming to be God’s son
Matt.27:39-44 (Mk.15:29-32; Lk.23:35-37) Challenged to save himself from death
Luke
Luke 7:39 Accused of being a false prophet
Luke 10:25,29 Challenged about what it takes to inherit eternal life
Luke 13:14 Accused of healing on the Sabbath day
Luke 15:1-2 Accused of eating with sinners
Luke 16:14 Derided because of exposing the hypocrisy of the Pharisees
Luke 19:7 Accused of being the guest of a publican
John
John 2:18-20 Challenged to prove his authority
John 5:15-18 Accused of healing on the Sabbath and making himself equal with God
John 6:41-42 Challenged on being the bread of life
John 8:3-9, 48 Challenged on what to do with an adulterous woman
John 9:16,24 His healing power questioned because of breaking the Sabbath
John 10:19-20,31-33 Accused of being demon possessed
John 10:33 Accused of falsely claiming to be God
John 19:7 Accused of falsely claiming to be God’s son
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jesus was innocent of ANY ‘criminal’ charges, so I rest my case.
Mockingjay says
Jerry… you always made sense before. I used to like your down-to- earth comments – but this is just complete nonsense, calling Jesus a “felon” ‘n all.
I have my problems as well with the thesis that “Jesus died for the world’s sins” but it really isn’t necessary to call Jesus a criminal to be critical of Christian theology.
Besides, the facts are against your statement, since the Romans, in the person of Pontius Pilatus, really didn’t want to execute Jesus, as he could see no real reason for it, – if I remember correctly – but then gave in to the pressure of the Jewish high priests, and “washing his hands in innocence” because he didn’t want to bear the responsibility of killing an INNOCENT man.
Jeff says
I am sorry to hear of your rejecting the Christian faith Jerry. I would encourage you to turn back to the narrow path, to the Orthodox faith in which Christ’s teachings are founded upon and seek to know Him. Don’t let all the false apostate, so called “churches” and their heretical doctrines and the world at large that denies Christ influence you and lead you astray. Remember, there are many wolves in sheep clothing who push anything but true doctrine, which unfortunately causes many people to reject our Lord altogether. We are all sinners in need of salvation, all of us and there is no salvation outside of Christ. The world is full of antichrist’s and antichrist ideologies, both “religious” and secular, with islam being the mother of all harlots and abominations of the earth, the beast system of the Antichrist as foretold in scripture. My words brother, are feeble and it is up to each one of us to decide if we are going to take up the cross as our Lord has asked us to do or not, but I do hope that in time you will choose not to forsake Him as the world has and turn to the one True faith of He who brings Life and salvation to the world.
He is with us.
Jerry says
Dear Champ,
Quoting all those Bible passages means nothing to me, I’m an atheist. I guess what you’re saying is, since those verses about Christ are in the Bible they must be true because the Bible is the word of god. But that’s the fallacy of circular reasoning and is meaningless in any serious debate.
Christ is just one more demigod in a long line of gods and monsters born of ignorance and superstition. I’m thinking you’re one of those who can’t see past their own confirmation bias, you see in the Christ story what you want to see and ignore the rest. Let me offer this one scenario that hopefully will explain why I reject Christ as some kind of divine savior of humanity…
Let’s say I walk up to you and declare, “I’m a good father that’s going to teach my children to trust in faith that I love them, that I want to forgive them, and that I am a man of truth. But to do that I’m going to first trick them into hurting me real bad. They will not know I’m tricking them, but they will after my ruse is finished. Only then can I forgive them. And they should love me for that. And if they don’t accept my painful “sacrifice” in love or if they doubt my good intentions they will forever be separated from me as punishment.
Most children would know that’s not the thinking of a normal, healthy father. It’s unethical to trick anyone into causing harm to others. It makes no sense morally, and any attempt to teach love, or honesty, or faith, is utterly destroyed by the act. This is why I believe Christianity is an absurdity in logic and morality. It is self contradictory to think a supreme being of goodness would resort to cretin thinking and underhanded methods to serve and help humanity. I only need to consider the Gospels in the proper historical context to understand who Christ truly was, but I must do it objectively and without preconceptions. I’m afraid this is something you are incapable of doing. That is why you fail to see the real Jesus beneath the myth. I personally don’t have to employ magical and fantastical thinking to explain the story of Christ. Oh sure, I could be weak minded and just accept all the magic and miracles, the empty tomb, all of it, but I owe it to the gift of reason to not do that. I know any god worth seeking would expect better from me than to abandon sound morality and rational thinking in my search for its existence.
Jay Boo says
Jerry said, (In his DISENGENUOUS defense)
“I was taking aim at the “real enemy.” I was using my own personal religious experience to make a point about islam. I’m sure JW doesn’t have a problem with that, even if you do. And I do believe Jesus was a felon, he was convicted of a capital crime and got the death penalty for it. By today’s standards that makes him a felon. ”
—————————————————————————
1 The topic is about an ex-Muslim who makes an incredibly devastating attack against child rapist Muhammad’s tenuous credibility, so why bother to criticize Jesus with a provocative slur on this thread?
2 Jerry’s use of the term ‘felon’ is nothing short of classic troll bait.
He proves this with his shameless use of this Reza Aslan type slur that he dangles (oh so innocently) then offers up a tired and predicable contorted rational ‘explaining’ his self-serving logic.
3 The shamelessness here is in the lack of honesty.
Jerry tries to ply his (guilt by association) with the word ‘felon’ then tries to have it both ways by weaseling out by feigning objectivity.
Jerry says
Jeff says
July 3, 2016 at 7:43 pm
I am sorry to hear of your rejecting the Christian faith Jerry. I would encourage you to turn back to the narrow path, to the Orthodox faith in which Christ’s teachings are founded upon and seek to know Him. Don’t let all the false apostate, so called “churches” and their heretical doctrines and the world at large that denies Christ influence you and lead you astray. Remember, there are many wolves in sheep clothing who push anything but true doctrine, which unfortunately causes many people to reject our Lord altogether. We are all sinners in need of salvation, all of us and there is no salvation outside of Christ. The world is full of antichrist’s and antichrist ideologies, both “religious” and secular, with islam being the mother of all harlots and abominations of the earth, the beast system of the Antichrist as foretold in scripture. My words brother, are feeble and it is up to each one of us to decide if we are going to take up the cross as our Lord has asked us to do or not, but I do hope that in time you will choose not to forsake Him as the world has and turn to the one True faith of He who brings Life and salvation to the world.
He is with us.
Dear Jeff,
I know I’m going to regret saying this and I’ll be hated by some. But there’s merit to this approach I am about to take. It’s a little painful, like pulling a really big emotional band aid, but someday you might thank me. Okay, here it comes…are you ready? …don’t be hurt….don’t be angry…
***YOU’RE DELUSIONAL.***
Whew! There, that wasn’t so bad now was it?
(I’m not making many new friends in JW today, am I.)
gravenimage says
Jerry wrote:
And I do believe Jesus was a felon, he was convicted of a capital crime and got the death penalty for it. By today’s standards that makes him a felon. I would compare him to Bin Laden, a terrorist against Palestine’s Roman occupiers…
…………………..
Some how I missed the part where Jesus masterminded the slaughter of 3,000 innocent people…
t. says
It was refreshing to see all of the above answers to Jerry’s claim about Jesus. I found them right on the spot, especially those of Champ, Mockingjay and gravenimage.
Unfortunately Jerry’s comment reflect the attitude of many ex-Christians, here in the west, who after leaving Christianity start dumping really hard on anything related to it, relativising and equating it Islam.
The worst and the most irrational thing some do is exactly what Jerry did in his comment above, equating Jesus to Muhammad or Osama Bin Laden!
Champ says
Jerry wrote:
Quoting all those Bible passages means nothing to me, I’m an atheist. I guess what you’re saying is, since those verses about Christ are in the Bible they must be true because the Bible is the word of god. But that’s the fallacy of circular reasoning and is meaningless in any serious debate.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Then where are YOU getting your information about Jesus from? The Bible? Of course!
So, since your information comes from the Bible, then you can’t have it BOTH ways, Jerry.
You can’t claim that Jesus was crucified for being a criminal, according to the Bible, and then not be willing to look at other information–from the Bible–which proves that they crucified an INNOCENT man.
Jay Boo is right …you *are* weaseling out by feigning objectivity.
Champ says
t. wrote:
The worst and the most irrational thing some do is exactly what Jerry did in his comment above, equating Jesus to Muhammad or Osama Bin Laden!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Indeed, that part of Jerry’s comment is totally irrational–in fact it’s bizarre. And when I read that I thought that he’s being completely dishonest and merely going for *maximum* effect to goad Christians some more. Haters like Jerry gotta hate. Doesn’t matter if what they’re stating is true, or not. They just love to get a rise out of Christians.
Champ says
Jerry wrote to me:
I only need to consider the Gospels in the proper historical context to understand who Christ truly was, but I must do it objectively and without preconceptions. I’m afraid this is something you are incapable of doing. That is why you fail to see the real Jesus beneath the myth. I personally don’t have to employ magical and fantastical thinking to explain the story of Christ. Oh sure, I could be weak minded and just accept all the magic and miracles, the empty tomb, all of it, but I owe it to the gift of reason to not do that.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Actually, Jerry doesn’t know the *first* thing about me, or why I’ve chosen to place my faith in Jesus Christ. His presumptions about me and my ability to make decisions, based upon reason, couldn’t be further from the truth. In fact they’re ridiculous and insulting.
And if Jesus hadn’t risen from the dead, then I would have placed my faith in another dead religion. No thank you. I have examined the evidence regarding Christ’s resurrection, and this is an easy matter to believe happened, when you consider that life itself is an unexplained miracle beyond our comprehension.
The evidence for Christ’s resurrection is out there and I’ve found it! …but is Jerry looking for it? No, he’s too busy mocking those who have.
Champ says
Mockingjay wrote:
Besides, the facts are against your statement, since the Romans, in the person of Pontius Pilatus, really didn’t want to execute Jesus, as he could see no real reason for it, – if I remember correctly – but then gave in to the pressure of the Jewish high priests, and “washing his hands in innocence” because he didn’t want to bear the responsibility of killing an INNOCENT man.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hear, hear, Mockingjay!
Carolyne says
Jerry, I’m an atheist, but I think you are a bit harsh about Jesus and those who believe in his divinity. They truly believe that Jesus was God and it gives them comfort. There was a time when not being a Christian was a dangerous thing, but I know of no massacres by Christians for their faith in the last few hundred years or so.
A creator of the universe who demands silly things ie. counting prayers on beads or worshipping statues makes no sense to me, but to each his own, so long as it doesn’t demand my death.
gravenimage says
t., thank you for your kind comments. I actually know quite a few people who grew up Christian and then left or drifted away from the faith–but I have never heard any of them compare Jesus to Osama bin Laden.
mach37 says
Champ, I believe being a “felon” depends on what the Government says is a felony. For example, if Jewish law called “working on the Sabbath” a felony, then he WAS a felon.
Greyhound Fancier says
Maybe you should investigate Jesus a little more before you determine that he was a “felon”. No felon has a message like his!
In the movie “Amistad”, one of the captives from Africa receives an illustrated Bible from some Christians who were following the captives’ trial. The captive was, OK, captivated by Jesus, who was the subject of some of the illustrations. The crucifixion was illustrated in that Bible, and the captives’ leader, who wasn’t impressed with the message in the Bible, told the interested young fellow, “He must have done something wrong, or they wouldn’t have put him to death”. The young fellow answered, “We didn’t do anything wrong, and we are on trial”. The leader had no response.
If we all lived more like Jesus, the world would be much better. Even the atheists and agnostics count on others to abide by the Golden Rule to have a decent society.
The influence of Jesus has already changed the world substantially. The Roman Empire no longer exists to put people and animals to death for entertainment. Most of the western world has hospital care that was unimaginable 2,000 years ago. The hospitals were nearly all started by Christians, and so were the universities (save Al-Azhar – excuse the spelling).
Keep an open mind, Jesus patiently waits for you to come and follow Him.
Jerry says
The influence of Jesus has already changed the world substantially.
I would certainly agree with that. It stifled intellectual and scientific advancement with its dogmatic devotion to myth over reason, murdered 10’s of thousands during the inquisition, been a major catalyst for wars, and has been a significant cause of much anti-semitism throughout history.
I think anytime people are persuaded to abandon reason in favor of myth or superstition suffering will result. And Christianity has enough “ugly” in its past to prove the point. It’s often claimed that religion inspires good in people too. But I argue that good people don’t need the example of a masochistic god who commits suicide on a cross to be inspired. The human condition has enough of its own inspiration in the suffering of others. There were good and wise people before Christ, and there would have continued to be good people with out him. The only difference, the world would not have had to contend with Christianity’s ignorance and violence had he not tricked others into killing him. (Seems like the Christian god had a little taqiyya in him too)
Now, I hate to cut this fun short, but Champ is right. We need to stick with the “real enemy.” Thanks for your concern about my soul. But I think I’ll pass.
nacazo says
It’s simply not accurate tobyse the term felon on a convicted person under roman law. You’re obviously using it for the shock value which is no illegal and yes the real enemy is islam. the term felon is only used in “some” common law countries the USA being one
Mark Swan says
Greyhound Fancier says—
“If we all lived more like Jesus, the world would be much better. Even the atheists and agnostics count on others to abide by the Golden Rule to have a decent society.”
Very Good Point—
anyone, says
:I would certainly agree with that. It stifled intellectual and scientific advancement with its dogmatic devotion to myth over reason, murdered 10’s of thousands during the inquisition, been a major catalyst for wars, and has been a significant cause of much anti-semitism throughout history.”
You’ve just proven that your so called freedom, is based on extreme ignorance and utter dishonest….
The only part of the world that experienced a scientific revolution, is the J/C west…. and as for the deaths during the inquisition… You are so far above the actual number, that I would conclude that you are an atheist through ignorance and bigotry… You are what I call a low church atheist… Ignorant, and ignorance to such an extreme degree that you will NEVER challenge your ignorance, or your pathetic and ignorant belief system, which is based on lies, at best, dishonesty being more likely.
Champ says
Jerry, how many threats did you receive from Christians when you made the decision to leave Christianity? Any? NONE?! Thought so …
Another reason for you to see clear to take Christians as your friends, and then take aim at an enemy that we all face: islam!
Jerry says
Jerry, how many threats did you receive from Christians when you made the decision to leave Christianity? Any? NONE?! Thought so …
I see nothing extra commendable about Christians not wanting to kill me at the present moment. I could say the same about muslims too. What you have there is not the least bit relevant to your argument that Christ was more than a felon on a cross.
Another reason for you to see clear to take Christians as your friends, and then take aim at an enemy that we all face: islam!
Hey look Champ, I’ll consider anyone a friend if they’re a decent person. And if you’ve read my rants you already know my “aim” is good.
Champ says
Jerry, I don’t necessarily think that your aim good, at all …
Even your opening line “Hey look Champ” is noteworthy, and reveals someone who’s pugnacious and not on good or friendly terms with “decent” Christians; and I also see you as someone who’s trying to *goad* Christians, here, with your remark about Jesus, when you wrote, “Jesus the felon”, in your above comment. Simply put, this snide remark demonstrates a pugnacious person intent on taking aim at Christians completely out of the blue, and no one even provoked you.
You also wrote:
“I’ll consider anyone a friend if they’re a decent person.”
That does not make sense since your *own* words–here–reveal otherwise. It seems that you’re more intent on stirring things up with Christians, regardless of whether or not they’re a “decent person” …
And you’re forgetting that Jesus did much good by healing *many* people, didn’t He? Don’t believe it? Really. Oh, but instead you choose to believe that Jesus was a “felon”, right? Can’t have it both ways. But in your warped and twisted point of view, you probably *can* have it both ways. Either the Biblical accounts are ALL true, or none of them are. So with that in mind–yes, Jesus DID heal the sick!!
And this isn’t the first time that you’ve goaded Christians on Jihad Watch with nasty remarks about Jesus or Christianity.
I’ve reminded you before to take aim at the real enemy: islam, but obviously you are incapable of doing that and being a decent person yourself.
gravenimage says
“Jesus the felon”? Good grief…
Jerry says
“Jesus the felon”? Good grief…
lol. Well what do you think is the best explanation for Jesus? who was convicted of a capital crime and got the death penalty? Do you agree with the prevailing Christian view that he was actually a supremely powerful spiritual being who incarnated in a dusty Roman outpost, caused a massacre of babies in the process, then tricked the authorities into killing him for a crime he didn’t commit, then vanished into thin air like a five star magician, just so his omnipotent self could overcome his own inability to forgive us without first becoming a martyr? None of which by the way makes any sense in any moral or rational construct worth considering.
If that’s what you think then I don’t want to know.
rara says
I basically agree with you, Jerry.
Everybody, any fundamentalism directed to those who “don’t believe the same as we” is dangerous.
We should fight to protect us from all negativity of Islam on the basis of the common morality (common for the rest of the world, we know that the morality of Islam doesn’t fit). Not allowing “offense” isn’t the right approach.
—
Jesus was actually punished by the Romans for something they legally considered at least a felony (providing the cause for possible rebellion of Jews against Roman rulers by claiming to be the “King of Jews” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus,_King_of_the_Jews ), and the punishment by crucifixion was common and not special there and then:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion#Ancient_Rome
“Crucifixion was used to punish slaves, pirates, and enemies of the state. It was considered the most shameful and disgraceful way to die.”
Jay Boo says
Proselytizing atheism would be more convincing if Jerry was more honest as I explained above.
Jerry said, (In his DISENGENUOUS defense)
“I was taking aim at the “real enemy.” I was using my own personal religious experience to make a point about islam. I’m sure JW doesn’t have a problem with that, even if you do. And I do believe Jesus was a felon, he was convicted of a capital crime and got the death penalty for it. By today’s standards that makes him a felon. ”
—————————————————————————
1 The topic is about an ex-Muslim who makes an incredibly devastating attack against child rapist Muhammad’s tenuous credibility, so why bother to criticize Jesus with a provocative slur on this thread?
2 Jerry’s use of the term ‘felon’ is nothing short of classic troll bait.
He proves this with his shameless use of this Reza Aslan type slur that he dangles (oh so innocently) then offers up a tired and predicable contorted rational ‘explaining’ his self-serving logic.
3 The shamelessness here is in the lack of honesty.
Jerry tries to ply guilt by association with the word ‘felon’ then tries to have it both ways by weaseling out by feigning objectivity.
Mark Swan says
Then Pilate, when he had called together the chief priests, the rulers, and the people, said to them, “You have brought this Man to me, as one who misleads the people. And indeed, having examined Him in your presence, I have found no fault in this Man concerning those things of which you accuse Him; no, neither did Herod, for I sent you back to him; and indeed nothing deserving of death has been done by Him.
This was Pilate’s verdict. Though Pilate was a cruel, ruthless man he wasn’t stupid. He could see through the motives of the religious leaders and had no problem in estimating Jesus and the whole situation by the declaration, “I find no fault in this Man.”
The Messiah (savior or liberator)…Mankind needed liberating…Satan held them captive reaching there minds through the spirit in mankind…a very Powerful Spirit Being…This Captor Views all Humans With Rage and Contempt.
The wages of sin (breaking God’s Spiritual Law) is death for flesh and blood Man…all humans who will have ever lived could not pay for one single sin…this Meant a perfect real flesh and blood Man had to be found…none would be…of course God knew this before He made Man…all part of a perfect master plan…nothing or no one could stop…so one of the very members of the God family (the One Called The Word (spokesman) emptied Himself and became this perfect flesh and blood Human…He would be willing and obedient…He defeated Satan by Every Word of God…and died sinless so Man could pray to God and be helped to learn what the very foundation of Knowledge is and practice it…Christ will join his mind with those that are willing and obedient…Christ has All Things placed under His Authority…He knows what it means to be Human…though He Now Is Very Much God In Full Strength……He Is A Power Beyond Reckoning…the demons know and tremble…with Man it is impossible…with God All Things Are Possible.
There is a spirit in Man…this enables Man’s Brain to function as a Mind…it also makes a perfect receiver for the Adversary to Communicate His Thoughts which He Can Broadcast Through The Air into that receiver…if We entertain those thoughts We think like He does…Satan is a Very Powerful Spirit Being…A genius at Mind Ploys…But He Is Not THE ALMIGHTY GOD Who Created Him and Restrains Him Even Now…He is also known as The Destroyer…Humans Can Not Imagine the rage He has for them…They Have the Potential To Be In The Very Family Of GOD
Mark Swan says
Jay Boo—I was already writing this, when I had posted it I found Yours—You did an excellent jod breaking this down, in facts, thanks for all of us who He took His swipe at.
gravenimage says
Jerry wrote:
…caused a massacre of babies in the process…
………………………
By that “logic”, we have “caused” Jihadists to murder us, as well.
We have “caused” 9/11, and the Paris Jihad attacks, and Brussels, and San Bernardino, and Orlando…
Mirren10 says
Jerry has problems with logic, clear thinking, and basic morality. We saw that on the ”Pope washing muslim’s feet’ thread.
He claims Christ was a ‘felon’ because Pilate, under pressure from the Sanhedrin, condemned Him in order to avoid trouble from *them*, and their ability to sway the crowds. Christ had contravened no Roman laws, had stolen nothing, murdered no-one, in fact had committed no immoral/illegal acts whatsoever. He was a **troublemaker** whom Pilate wanted to deal with in the most expeditious way possible.
Jerry’s description of him as a ‘felon’ is indicative of his almost total lack of moral sense.
Analogous to this is his stupid correlation with Mandela, who was in fact a **terrorist** who advocated murder of white people, and encouraged necklacing of opponents. Did Christ ever advocate anything like this ? No.
Jerry is very much a typical product of leftard ‘education’, I think. He has no real understanding of what is right or wrong, good or bad, true or false; he sees Islam’s horrific violence, and rightfully condemns it, but he’s a stranger to real morality, ethics, and sadly, logical argument. Neither does he understand the concept of free will and choices.
Also, the infantile accusation of Christ being a ‘felon’ amuses him, because he will thus ruffle Christian feathers, and get a little attention. Personally, I wouldn’t indulge him.
Mark Swan says
Mirren10—thank You that is an accurate critique, and good advice.
gravenimage says
Excellent post, Mirren.
Champ says
Mirren10 wrote:
Also, the infantile accusation of Christ being a ‘felon’ amuses him, because he will thus ruffle Christian feathers, and get a little attention. Personally, I wouldn’t indulge him.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I completely agree with you, Mirren10. Jerry’s accusation of Christ was *very* immature, and reveals that he isn’t willing to examine all the facts surrounding Christ’s death on the cross; and he stated this about Jesus to goad Christians into a debate, and it worked. Yeah, I’ll think twice before engaging with that Jerk again.
Jerry says
1 The topic is about an ex-Muslim who makes an incredibly devastating attack against child rapist Muhammad’s tenuous credibility…–JAY BOO
The topic is about an ex muslim who could no longer defend the immoralities of islamic doctrine. The title of the video is “Why I left Islam.” He said this,
“And recently I have decided to leave islam…I have found that I am no longer able to defend the koran, and especially muhammad’s morals and conduct.”
Well guess what, I can relate to that from my own religious experience, and that was the purpose of my illustration. My personal testimony was relevant and I felt it was worth sharing. This ex muslim is confronting the intellectual absurdities and immorality of islam and its alleged founder, and I too have done the same with Christianity and its alleged founder, I am relating to his experience with my own. And I capped both our experiences with this conclusion:
“I imagine it will be an even greater relief for muslims to rid themselves of a religion soaked with hateful and retarded principles.”
There was sincere continuity in my thinking, the one controversial sentence about Jesus being a felon was not “troll bait” as you have described it. I was only considering both our experiences together for the purpose of drawing what I thought was a worthwhile conclusion. And I don’t feel at all bad about calling Christ a felon either, because in the conventional way of thinking about crime and punishment he was.
2 Jerry’s use of the term ‘felon’ is nothing short of classic troll bait.
He proves this with his shameless use of this Reza Aslan type slur…–JAY BOO
I’m Shameless? The guy Jesus get’s the death penalty for sedition and I’m shameless for calling him a “felon”? No, the people who call this man god in the flesh are shameless. People that do that disgrace divinity with talk of false convictions and insane theology. If he got the death penalty as a criminal then I call that “felon,” whether he was framed or not. Sorry if you disagree with mainstream thinking in the area of crime and punishment.
nacazo says
romans had no concept of felony. you are applying modern concepts to historical events for your own purposes of shock value… in other words diversionary tactics. Please focus on the real enemy not on silly distractions.
Jerry says
As a class of criminal offense the “felony” is part of every civilization in history, even if they didn’t call it “felony.”
Def. of FELONY: a crime, typically one involving violence, regarded as more serious than a misdemeanor, and usually punishable by imprisonment for more than one year or by death.
Jesus was put to death for sedition, that put’s it in the felon class. And the fact that he might have been framed for the crime doesn’t change that.
anyone, says
Someone convicted on false charges of committing a felony, is NOT a felon, they are someone falsely convicted. According to this morons thinking, the mere fact that someone is decreed guilty of a crime, is proof of their being a criminal, even if the conviction is unjust. Utterly stupid failed human being Jer….. Try again.
Don McKellar says
Jesus is a fictional character. I suppose in the context of the disjointed stories he is technically a felon, but who cares? It’s all made up absurdity. Also, being in conflict with an unjust government made real life heroes like Nelson Mandela a felon, too. As did those who opposed the Nazis or Stalin and died. Your argument doubly doesn’t make sense, Jerry.
Champ says
“Jesus is a fictional character.”?
Why would you state something so profoundly ignorant and not true?
You may not believe that Jesus is who He claimed to be–which is certainly your choice. But there *are* historical records, besides the Bible, which prove that Jesus existed. Do some homework and research.
Hey and when you read other historical records about other famous men and women, from histories past, do you also doubt that they existed? No? Why not?
Doubting that Jesus even existed only demonstrates that you have a profound lack of education and that you haven’t done your homework; and I guess this is the easiest and laziest way to deal with what Jesus had to say by simply dismissing Him outright. Oh please.
Jerry says
gravenimage says
July 3, 2016 at 10:41 pm
Jerry wrote:
And I do believe Jesus was a felon, he was convicted of a capital crime and got the death penalty for it. By today’s standards that makes him a felon. I would compare him to Bin Laden, a terrorist against Palestine’s Roman occupiers…
…………………..
Some how I missed the part where Jesus masterminded the slaughter of 3,000 innocent people…
—————————
Jerry says,
So what are you saying? that because there is no evidence in the gospels that Christ was a man of violence that he therefore was framed and executed unjustly? If that’s your message then I think it has little merit. Morally, logically, and historically, the story of Christ doesn’t hold water. The weight of responsibility for proving the veracity of Christianity’s fabulous claims does not rest with rational, candid thinking atheists like myself. It rests with those who have much proving to do in regard to logical impossibilities and moral absurdities in theology. It’s not that it couldn’t be true, yes a god could perhaps do all kinds of tricks if she wanted. But all these alleged miracles are nothing more than an argument from ignorance, it’s fallacious thinking. Even if these alleged miracles were events that truly defied nature as we know it, that still does not prove there was a god behind it.
The theological underpinnings of Christian theology are bereft of reason and good morals. Further, the Gospels’ historicity is contradictory, unsupported with outside evidence (except the bogus Josephus passage), they also show obvious signs of mythological development, and they don’t hold up to critical scrutiny. What I mean with that last one is, the Gospels belie their own dishonest claims with their obvious predilection for bias in all the right places. But one has to make a good effort to read the gospels objectively and critically to see it. The early Christian scribes that modified the gospels over time tried to amend history with their own interpretation of who they wanted Christ to be. Their deceit was contested early on by other Christian groups and individuals, but eventually around the time of Constantine Catholicism reigned supreme, at least until the Reformation. I feel disgust when I think of all the countless souls that have died and suffered unjustly for that fable.
Have you ever read “Misquoting Jesus,” by Bart Erhman. You might like it.
gravenimage says
It does not matter in this context whether you consider Jesus to be the savior, to have performed miracles, or even to have been a historical figure at all. There is *nothing* in any text that could lead any morally reasonable person to equate Jesus with Osama bin Laden.
Jerry says
…There is *nothing* in any text that could lead any morally reasonable person to equate Jesus with Osama bin Laden.–GravenImage
Unless you are a prefect of ancient Rome, then they start to look real similar.
gravenimage says
What claptrap. Pontius Pilate’s actions are described as quite reluctant and more politically expedient than anything. This hardly would have been the case had Jesus been mass-murdering the populace.
Jerry says
gravenimage says
July 3, 2016 at 10:46 pm
Jerry wrote:
…caused a massacre of babies in the process…
………………………
By that “logic”, we have “caused” Jihadists to murder us, as well.
We have “caused” 9/11, and the Paris Jihad attacks, and Brussels, and San Bernardino, and Orlando…
———————————–
Your comparison in logic fails, unless you consider us equal to the Christian god, omnipotent, omniscient, and supremely wise and loving. Can I remind you, millions of mothers give birth without causing a baby massacre. You’re telling me this all-wise, all-knowing, god couldn’t do what millions of mothers do every year without causing a baby massacre? What a puny, stupid, ineffectual god he must be. He can’t save us, we should be saving him! hahahaha, oh my side! And this is the same god that created a universe of stars and galaxies? Maybe he’s a savant! haha! Ya know, like one of those kids who’s brilliant with math or music but can’t be born without causing a baby massacre. 🙂
That baby massacre is just one more reason among many that reveal Christianity to be a fairy tale. It’s ludicrous, the idea that the Christian god has the power to create a universe of souls and galaxies, but he’s unable to incarnate without causing a massacre of babies. What a bumbling idiot he must be. And then I’m supposed to “drink his blood and eat his body”? Whoa! That’s some serious African ghetto sh*t there, about as spiritually enlightened as a nail fetish and juju beads. Someone pass the smelling salts, I’m passing out. lol.
Thought_Weaver says
ROFL ? Deja vu?
Q. Why Jesus ?
A. Because the Bible says so.
Q. Why Bible?
A. Because Jesus says so.
Brilliant. ??
Champ says
Of course “Thought_Weaver” is going to high-5 “Jerry” since he’s an ardent Christ-hater, too. Boy you two could be bff’s because you make such a lovely pair of haters.
Jerry says
Champ says
July 4, 2016 at 1:30 am
Of course “Thought_Weaver” is going to high-5 “Jerry” since he’s an ardent Christ-hater, too. Boy you two could be bff’s because you make such a lovely pair of haters.
Or maybe it’s not that we hate Jesus, it’s more that we love reason. You might want to give it a try sometime.
Champ says
You don’t hate Jesus? That’s a lie! You called Jesus a “felon”, so now you’re lying about what you’d written. How’s that for “reason” smartepants?
And your reasoning skills are deeply warped, you wrote …”Jesus is as bad as Osama bin Laden” …remember writing that ridiculous remark?
Western Canadian says
Someone convicted on false charges of committing a felony, is NOT a felon, they are someone falsely convicted. According to this morons thinking, the mere fact that someone is decreed guilty of a crime, is proof of their being a criminal, even if the conviction is unjust. Utterly stupid failed human being Jer….. Try again.
Western Canadian says
“more that we love reason”
No Jer, you merely flatter yourself…. which given the low quality of your thinking, is utterly laughable… You do not reason, you assume, and from a position of uncommon ignorance and extreme ego. Your ranting is pathetic, lacking in reason or logic, or historical merit…. You are really pathetic, even for an ignorant, low church atheist.
Angemon says
Thought_Weaver posted:
“Deja vu?”
That depends. Have you laughed at something Jerry said and told anyone who challenged your demonstrably false views to go to bed?
gravenimage says
Human beinsg have free will. Some endeavor to use that freedom for good, and some use it for the blackest evil.
Really, this is something we see here at Jihad Watch every day.
Mark Swan says
Absolutely—gravenimage—Willful Mindless Nonsense.
gravenimage says
Thanks, Mark.
Jerry says
Don McKellar says
July 3, 2016 at 10:47 pm
Jesus is a fictional character. I suppose in the context of the disjointed stories he is technically a felon, but who cares? It’s all made up absurdity.
Oh youuuuu. You know how to sweet talk an atheist, don’t you. Come with me, let’s sit under the apple tree and hate Jesus together. 😉
Also, being in conflict with an unjust government made real life heroes like Nelson Mandela a felon, too. As did those who opposed the Nazis or Stalin and died. Your argument doubly doesn’t make sense, Jerry.
I never said Jesus might not have been heroic. To his fellow Jews he may have been a hero, but not to the Romans that killed him for sedition. But not all heroes are created equal. Bin Laden was a hero to many muslims, but that doesn’t mean he was divine or worth worshiping. I’d say the same about Jesus.
Western Canadian says
They didn’t kill him for sedition, they killed him to prevent those who hated and feared him, from running amuck. The same way you run amuch, mentally.
Jerry says
t. says
July 3, 2016 at 11:57 pm
It was refreshing to see all of the above answers to Jerry’s claim about Jesus. I found them right on the spot, especially those of Champ, Mockingjay and gravenimage.
Don’t forget your pom poms, every good cheerleader needs ’em.
Unfortunately Jerry’s comment reflect the attitude of many ex-Christians, here in the west, who after leaving Christianity start dumping really hard on anything related to it, relativising and equating it Islam.
Not true, never said anything of the sort. Show the post where I equate Christianity with islam. Just because I mentioned some ugly historical truths about Christianity’s past doesn’t mean I’m equating those two faiths. Christianity emerged from its adolescent murderous stage quite some time ago, so I don’t think they very much the same. And I think the lunatics that buy into its absurdities are no more dangerous than any other harmless nut. Wow, I must be getting tired, I’m losing all tact. Better go to bed.
“Hail Mary full of grace…”
…..I’m kidding! lol
Carolyne says
In the time of Jesus and earlier, many great men were said to be of virgin birth, i.e. Alexander the Great. I don’t think it was mean to be taken literally nor do I believe a God of the universe took the time to impregnate a human female since He had endless alternatives. He supposedly created Adam out of dust so one presumes He could have done the same with Jesus–skip the middleman so to speak. t
Jerry says
Champ said (apparently without any embarrassment),
I have examined the evidence regarding Christ’s resurrection, and this is an easy matter to believe happened, when you consider that life itself is an unexplained miracle beyond our comprehension.
You’ve examined the evidence? and what might that be, the fact that there is no evidence? did you consider there might be a less ridiculous explanation? like he was moved to another tomb? The one he was buried in didn’t even belong to him, it was donated by Joseph of Arimathea, and Christ was buried in haste because the Sabbath was approaching,
42 Because it was the Jewish day of Preparation and since the tomb was nearby, they laid Jesus there. John 19:42
Did you notice the conjunction “because”? which means for the reason that. Most likely he was buried there out of expediency and later moved to a permanent tomb. Or maybe the authorities moved the body so it wouldn’t get stolen, that wasn’t uncommon then or even in modern times. There was a serious attempt to steal Lincoln’s body and there are more examples. Or maybe Jesus survived the crucifixion by natural means and was whisked away under cover. Don’t let the alleged guard detail fool you, that’s an obvious fiction included only by the author of Mathew. And the purpose of that fiction was to refute the accusation that the disciples had stolen Christ’s body. Well of course that’s probably what happened and that’s a conundrum if you want gullible dupes to believe Jesus was actually a supreme being causing himself to disappear for no coherent reason whatsoever. If Christ had wanted to impress the world then better he should have disappeared from the cross, at least then there might have been witnesses. What a fraud it all is.
I’m sorry Champ, after that last comment of yours I think I understand well enough where you’re at with this thing. I’m just glad you’re not a muslim, because if you were you’d be the perfect candidate for jihad recruitment, uncritical in thinking, and ready to believe anything if it satisfies your predilection for superstitious thinking. Still you’ve done some good stuff in JW so don’t let this get between us, I consider you an ally.
And one final note, yes, life is in many ways a “miracle beyond our comprehesion.” But that’s no excuse to abandon reason when it’s available. It’s not rational to conclude that Jesus arose from the dead supernaturally because life is beyond comprehension. If you use our lack of “comprehension” to justify a miracle then you’re only heaping ignorance upon ignorance. Just something to think about.
nacazo says
Even Bart Ehrman considers that
Jesus died in a cross to be a historical fact. If a Roman soldier failed to perform an ordered execution, he would have been executed himself so the centurion made sure by spearing Jesus in the heart. As for the disciples stealing the body…. consider how they were all executed later for their belief in a resurrected Jesus. I think people are ready to die for what they believe but nobody is ready to die for something they know it’s a lie. You are saying that the disciples were ready to die for something they knew not true is not reasonable.
Jerry says
As for the disciples stealing the body…. consider how they were all executed later for their belief in a resurrected Jesus. I think people are ready to die for what they believe but nobody is ready to die for something they know it’s a lie. You are saying that the disciples were ready to die for something they knew not true is not reasonable.
The earliest Jewish followers of Christ did not have to steal his dead body to motivate themselves. Their motivation was fighting Roman oppression and the Jewish establishment that aided that oppression. Though it’s entirely possible they stole the body for inspiring in others an enthusiasm for their common cause. Magic, miracles, and religious superstition was even greater then than today. It may have served their political agenda to have their former leader “rising” from the dead. Maybe that wasn’t planned, but favorable circumstances may have allowed for that deception. Christ was buried in haste in a tomb donated by another. Undoubtedly his body was later moved to a more permanent location, and that could have been the accidental start of a 2000 year fraud. Of course we’ll never know for sure.
Champ says
Jerry wrote:
“I’m sorry Champ, after that last comment of yours I think I understand well enough where you’re at with this thing. I’m just glad you’re not a muslim, because if you were you’d be the perfect candidate for jihad recruitment” …
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“Jihad recruitment”? Now Jerry is being ridiculous, insulting, and hitting below the belt.
Irrespective of my views on the evidence I’ve read and embrace regarding the resurrection of Christ, my contributions on Jihad Watch–over the past 13 years–serve as evidence to the contrary to Jerry’s absurd allegation about me and prove that I’m anything BUT “the perfect candidate for jihad recruitment.”
Clearly Jerry doesn’t want to have an adult conversation about why I’ve chosen to put my faith in Jesus Christ. And he did ask me about the evidence I’ve found, but does he truly want to know? No, he doesn’t; he didn’t leave it simply at asking what this evidence is, but dismissed it outright, and he then went on to show his true colors of hatred by claiming that I’m a “perfect candidate for jihad recruitment”? Jerry certainly has defined himself with that revealing insult.
No, I am not the least bit embarrassed and I make NO apology for why I believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ! Again, just more belittling mockery from Jerry.
And I was going to answer Jerry’s question about what evidence there is for Christ’s resurrection, and I even put something together in case he wanted to know. But given his incredibly ugly response, I will not be sharing this with him.
Rather, I was reminded of this passage from the Bible after reading Jerry’s hateful reply, and it’s a much more apropos response to him under the circumstances …
“Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.” — Matthew 7:6
Other Christians will certainly appreciate why I’ve chosen this verse, but of course it will probably be lost on Jerry.
Western Canadian says
That is all he has to offer….. He is uncommonly ignorant, even for a practiced fool, so what else can he do, but offer insults and name calling. He is actually impressed by himself, proving his standards are VERY low…
gravenimage says
Jerry wrote:
I’m sorry Champ, after that last comment of yours I think I understand well enough where you’re at with this thing. I’m just glad you’re not a muslim, because if you were you’d be the perfect candidate for jihad recruitment, uncritical in thinking, and ready to believe anything if it satisfies your predilection for superstitious thinking.
……………………..
Well, that’s just grotesque calumny. One need not necessarily share Champ’s Christian beliefs to realize that comparing her to a fanatical Jihadist is the most vicious of smears.
Champ says
Thank you, Graven, it is a vicious smear. And I appreciate your defending me.
Jay Boo says
Agreed
Anyone hoping for an interlude of verisimilitude from Jerry once he gets on his rant is guaranteed sure to be disappointed.
But we got him pegged.
Champ says
Indeed Jay Boo.
Mirren10 says
”Well, that’s just grotesque calumny. One need not necessarily share Champ’s Christian beliefs to realize that comparing her to a fanatical Jihadist is the most vicious of smears”
Absolutely, graven. I’d missed that little gem.
And Jerry thinks my measured assessment of *him* is ”obnoxious **ad hominem’** ! 🙂
See what I mean about libtards and fanatical atheists ? They just *cannot* reason.
Champ says
See what I mean about libtards and fanatical atheists ? They just *cannot* reason.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**EXACTLY**, Mirren10!!! Sooo true, especially in “jerry’s” case …
Jerry says
Joan C. says
July 4, 2016 at 12:22 pm
Jerry, if you could only open your eyes, and get some intelligence about what you read!! Satan made different religions, to confuse and make people see things in those religions as truth. Like, I’m a christian, and I KNOW that the catholic religion is evil to the core! (And the religions that accept homosexuality are going to satan’s side too). If you only see the symbolism of the christian church as evil, that even jesus tells us, are, such as praying to mother mary, (no ones comes to God except through Jesus, verse), etc etc. I could show you more, but it would take too much time. Just study satan’s symbols (he has numbers too), and compare them to what the catholic church has!
I’m so sorry for you, that you can’t see that Jesus died for you, and me, and everyone. After Adam and Eve, he took our sins with him, on the cross, so we will not have to go to hell for them, and we can born again. You have a choice, between good and bad, please come to the light. Educate christianity a little more. All other religions belong to satan himself, and he’s loving it! Please don’t listen to him!
That’s got to be parody.
Jerry says
…Clearly Jerry doesn’t want to have an adult conversation about why I’ve chosen to put my faith in Jesus Christ….–CHAMP
Okay, your last reply had no value whatsoever in refuting my earlier points on any level. Your comment is nothing but a goopy mix of ad hominem and sappy emotionalism. Had you anything good to offer in response to my earlier posts you would have taken the opportunity to share them, you would not have wasted time reflecting, accusing, and preaching. You did not offer anything that was even remotely concerned about the reasoned points I offered in my most recent post to you. You just totally ignored it. To me that’s a concession, it’s your way of saying you don’t have a rebuttal worth offering, so you just ignored me altogether. I offered good reasons that allow for a simpler, more plausible explanation as to why the body of Christ was missing from the tomb, but you gave me nothing in return. These are areas of your own belief system that you are going to have to face sooner or later if you want to respect truth and reasonable thinking. I hope for your sake that day comes soon.
Champ says
Jerry is lying–again.
He wrote:
“Okay, your last reply had no value whatsoever in refuting my earlier points on any level.”
This is false, and I explained all of this in my above reply to Jerry. Jerry is the one that ended the conversation by stating that I am “the perfect candidate for jihad recruitment.”
This is profoundly absurd, and anyone that knows me, knows that this is completely false. And by leveling this egregious ad hominem attack at me, then of course this ended the conversation. Jerry ought to apologize for such an egregious remark, as I pointed it out to him a few times; but I know not to hold my breath from one so mean-spirited and hateful.
And this from Jerry:
“Your comment is nothing but a goopy mix of ad hominem and sappy emotionalism.”
Here Jerry is projecting, since he is the one leveling ad hominem’s at me by claiming that I am “the perfect candidate for jihad recruitment.”
And as far as there being “sappy emotionalism” in any of my comments, this too is false and projection from Jerry. Jerry is the one getting ’emotional’ and slinging wild insults, not me. And it’s all right here in black ‘n white serving as proof.
Jerry says
Okay, I think we’re done in this thread. You just keep repeating the same empty drivel. I guess I’ll see you in other threads. And just so you know, I don’t mix threads, what happened in here stays in here. So don’t expect me to avoid you elsewhere. You’re still an ally to me, hopefully you can do the same.
Champ says
You’re still an ally to me, hopefully you can do the same.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No, I do not want to do the same. You must be kidding. I am simply going to ignore you completely from now on. You are a complete waste of time, and a self-serving ASS. Buh-bye ASSHOLE! I’m done with you.
Western Canadian says
Jer, you keep repeating your own low church atheist drivel, and make a total ass out of yourself, with your ever post…. You name call, insult, demonstrate a level of ignorance that is staggering, demonstrate that you are NOT capable of rational thought, have obviously received a very poor education, and have an ego that would best be described by reference to parsecs… And YOU criticize Champs posts??? You would require years of study, and would still look a fool compared to Champ. You are just a typical low church atheist…. ignorant, blind to your ignorance, and utterly pathetic.
Champ says
Thank you, Western Canandian!
Your reply to “jerry” is spot on and he’s just as you described.
Champ says
oops: Canadian! 🙂
Jerry says
Carolyne said
Jerry, I’m an atheist, but I think you are a bit harsh about Jesus and those who believe in his divinity. They truly believe that Jesus was God and it gives them comfort. There was a time when not being a Christian was a dangerous thing, but I know of no massacres by Christians for their faith in the last few hundred years or so.
You mention that Jesus brings them “comfort.” So is their comfort my censorship? Need I bow to their ignorant and misguided views because they are comfortable? Giving heroin to an addict can bring comfort too, but the addict also needs to respect the rights of others. Presumably these JW discussants are adults in an adult forum, they are discussing murder, rape, torture, for a 7th century pagan god. I don’t see how my own views, no matter how frank, are in any way inappropriate or insensitive in such an environment. I admit I’m no huge brain on the topic, but I do believe my views have merit and are based on reasoned thinking. Once in a while an occasional snide remark might slip through, but by-and-large I’m making sense. But you see, serious Christians don’t like to hear the truth about their own delusions, but they rarely have any compunction about criticizing the religious views of others. I see little worth respecting in their hypocrisy.
Carolyne said
A creator of the universe who demands silly things ie. counting prayers on beads or worshiping statues makes no sense to me, but to each his own, so long as it doesn’t demand my death.
Well I’m inclined to agree. But this is a forum for discussion, and even though we strayed off topic there was a consensus among enough of us to wanna pursue it. If they can’t stand the ensuing heat then maybe they should get outta the kitchen.
Jerry says
Mark Swan says
July 4, 2016 at 4:35 pm
I don’t like spinach, and I’m glad I don’t, because if I liked it, I’d eat it, and I just hate it.
~ Clarence Darrow
——————————-
I just know god exists, because if he didn’t the universe couldn’t exist, and since the universe exists god also exists, because if he didn’t there’d be no universe.
~Typical idiot theist.
Champ says
Dear Jerry,
I know I’m going to regret saying this and I’ll be hated by some. But there’s merit to this approach I am about to take. It’s a little painful, like pulling a really big emotional band aid, but someday you might thank me. Okay, here it comes…are you ready? …don’t be hurt….don’t be angry…
***YOU’RE AN ASSHOLE!!!***
Jerry says
You never once took my good points seriously. Typical brainwashed Christian, you choose to see what you want to see and ignore good sense. But I don’t think less of you, we all learn at our own pace. Good luck, and no hard feelings.
Western Canadian says
You ignorant ass, you made NO good points. You are a typical low church atheist, ignorant, and frankly rather more stupid than a broken door knob…. And you are so caught up in your ‘superior’ and utterly ignorant beliefs, that you will NEVER improve.
Raja says
Jerry,
You understanding of Christianity is rather skewed much like that of prince Charles.Your are such a PITY.
Jerry says
I’m skewed? I’m not the one relying on unsubstantiated claims, half truths, and myth. Cripes, one can see the mythologizing process in the Gospels, the transformation from Mark to John should be enough to slap the belief out of anyone. There’s nothing more skewed than the Gospels, they distort the life of a felon Jew and turn him into a god. I’d say that’s about skewed as one can be.
Jerry says
Champ says
July 4, 2016 at 10:12 pm
You’re still an ally to me, hopefully you can do the same.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No, I do not want to do the same. You must be kidding. I am simply going to ignore you completely from now on. You are a complete waste of time, and a self-serving ASS. Buh-bye ASSHOLE! I’m done with you.
——————————-
What? You aren’t going to forgive me for speaking my views about your Christian delusions? Doesn’t sound very Christian-like to me. You better get to confession reaaaaal fast.
Jerry says
Jerry has problems with logic, clear thinking, and basic morality…–Mirren10
I have to say Mirren, I was rather disappointed in that comment. I felt like I was getting kicked in the shin by a little sister cuz I told her Santa Claus wasn’t real. No my thinking is quite clear, and I find my understanding to be at least average. You said,
Jerry is very much a typical product of leftard ‘education’, I think. He has no real understanding of what is right or wrong, good or bad, true or false; he sees Islam’s horrific violence, and rightfully condemns it, but he’s a stranger to real morality, ethics, and sadly, logical argument. Neither does he understand the concept of free will and choices.
I fail to understand why you think this childish ad hominem has any value. To say I have no real understanding of “right or wrong, good or bad, true or false” is obnoxious hyperbole and can’t be taken seriously, it’s self-deprecating to even say it. Or that I’m a “stranger to real morality, ethics, and sadly, logical argument.” lol, who are you kidding with these 2nd grade insults? not me. You’d probably make a good carnival hawker, you have a wonderfully bold and pontificating way of making nothing sound like something. By and large my views in this thread were reasoned opinion, sorry if certain Christians can’t handle honest and frank discussion about their faith.
And it’s bad form to bring up something I may have said a long time ago in another thread. It just goes to show, you aren’t discussing you’re attacking. I hope we can get along better in the future.
Mirren10 says
”I fail to understand why you think this childish ad hominem has any value.”
Facts are not ‘ad hominem’, neither is criticism of another’s argument. As I’ve noted before, that you think they are is an example of how your ‘education’ has left you unable to think clearly.
Now, calling Champ “the perfect candidate for jihad recruitment,” is not just ad hominem, but a vicious insult, which she has done nothing whatsoever to deserve.
”And it’s bad form to bring up something I may have said a long time ago in another thread.”
Truth is never ‘bad form’. But you will never understand that, because in your Alynskyite world, *Truth* has no objective reality, and words mean whatever you want them to mean.
” I hope we can get along better in the future.”
If you post something I agree with, that has a factual basis, then I may comment on it, if I feel I have something worthwhile to add.
If you post something stupid and untrue, such as that Christ was a ‘felon’, or that Champ (or any of the other good people here) is a ”perfect candidate for jihad recruitment”, then I will point out your lack of reasoning skills, basic misunderstanding of what is truth or falsity, inability to reason logically, and your lack of moral grounding, or ethics.
Mirren10 says
I will also point out that you don’t appear to know what ”self-deprecating” means.
” To say I have no real understanding of “right or wrong, good or bad, true or false” is obnoxious hyperbole and can’t be taken seriously, it’s self-deprecating to even say it”
self-deprecat¦ing.
1.modest about or critical of oneself, especially humorously so:
Is it me who is being self-deprecating in this context, or you ? 🙂
Jerry says
Now, calling Champ “the perfect candidate for jihad recruitment,” is not just ad hominem, but a vicious insult, which she has done nothing whatsoever to deserve.
It wasn’t intended to be ad hominem, it was an observation about his way of thinking by way of analogy. People that reject reason for superstition are prone to manipulation by others, and we see the proof for this every day in islam. If he was insulted then it’s probably because he saw some truth in what I said, Christians tend to hate the truth because it exposes their ignorant thinking.
Truth is never ‘bad form’.
Now that’s silly, of course it can be. There’s an infinite supply of examples where offering the truth can be inappropriate, rude, or even dangerous. You are confusing truth in its purest form with free speech liberty, two different things. If you wanna prove my point, next time you’re in church walk up to the altar and start reciting the “truthful” Declaration of Independence and see if others consider that “bad form.”
If you post something stupid and untrue, such as that Christ was a ‘felon’…
Well he was certainly tried and executed as a felon, sorry if I as an atheist didn’t bow to Christianity’s delusions in my illustration.
I will also point out that you don’t appear to know what ”self-deprecating” means.
Def. Self-deprecating: belittling or undervaluing oneself; excessively modest.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/self-deprecating
I’ll even use it in a sentence for you: Ya know Mirren, you are trying way too hard to seem witty and sophisticated and it’s having a self-deprecating effect on your posts. 🙂
Mirren10 says
”It wasn’t intended to be ad hominem, it was an observation about his way of thinking by way of analogy.”
Your ‘analogy’ is false. (By the way, Champ is a woman, as am I). Jihadists commit murder because Islamic texts command it. There is nothing in either the New Testament, or any Christian apologetics, which condones, or commands, murder. Therefore any Christian who strapped on a suicide vest and detonated his/her self in the local mosque would be going directly *against* the commands of Christ.
”If he (sic) was insulted then it’s probably because he saw some truth in what I said, Christians tend to hate the truth because it exposes their ignorant thinking.”
You don’t consider it insulting to accuse someone of being a potential murderer ? How very ‘tolerant’ of you. As already noted, Christians are specifically commanded *not* to commit murder, by Christ in the New Testament. Any Christian doing so commits a sin of the first magnitude. Jihadists on the other hand, are specifically commanded by not only the koran, but the example of mohammed, to murder, rape, steal and destroy.
I think it far more likely that *you*“ would be ”the perfect candidate for jihad recruitment,” since you have no apparent moral underpinning, believe truth to be subjective, and that words mean only what the speaker wants them to mean. The Left has almost as bloody a history as islam, in terms of murder of its opponents, and justified it according to Marxist doctrine. Fascism also, of which islam is a spiritual example, justified *its* murders by reference to *racial* doctrine.
”Truth is never ‘bad form’.
Now that’s silly, of course it can be. There’s an infinite supply of examples where offering the truth can be inappropriate, rude, or even dangerous. You are confusing truth in its purest form with free speech liberty, two different things. If you wanna prove my point, next time you’re in church walk up to the altar and start reciting the “truthful” Declaration of Independence and see if others consider that “bad form.”
Once again, your analogy is false. A thing is either true (verified by fact) or it is not. Your examples of circumstances where it might be wiser, more polite, or dangerous to offer it, speak nothing as to its intrinsic nature. Your use of the term ‘bad form’ refers to the requirements of social conventions. Truth is not a social convention.
”If you wanna prove my point, next time you’re in church walk up to the altar and start reciting the “truthful” Declaration of Independence and see if others consider that “bad form.”
This is an example of social convention, not truth. The fact that you cannot see this is yet another example of your belief that truth is subjective, and words mean whatever you want them to mean.
”If you post something stupid and untrue, such as that Christ was a ‘felon’…
Well he was certainly tried and executed as a felon, sorry if I as an atheist didn’t bow to Christianity’s delusions in my illustration. ”
A felon is one who has committed a crime. As already noted, Christ committed no crime, no contravention of Roman law. Pilate condemned him under pressure from the Sanhedrin.
Were all the people *convicted and condemned* in Stalin’s show trials felons ? Were all the people *convicted and condemned* by Nazi judges, felons? Or were they victims ? Those tried, convicted, and executed by Pol Pot, the Khmer Rouge; were they felons, or victims ?
If one is **accused** of a crime by a corrupt authority, tried, convicted and condemned by that corrupt authority, but is, in fact, innocent, does that make one a felon because the corrupt authority states it to be so ? Or does *truth* come in there ?
”Ya know Mirren, you are trying way too hard to seem witty and sophisticated and it’s having a self-deprecating effect on your posts.”
In what way, would my attempts (according to you) to ”seem witty and sophisticated” be examples of excessive modesty, and belittling or undervaluing myself ?
Champ says
“jerry” wrote:
Ya know Mirren, you are trying way too hard to seem witty and sophisticated and it’s having a self-deprecating effect on your posts.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What’s clear is that “jerry” is projecting–again.
I see this clown being the one who’s trying to be witty, but of course he’s not. He’s a bully who’s VOID of clear logic and decency that has been put on full display on this thread. He’s a “dirty fighter” whose only good at taking cheap shots and dismissing people outright. What a pathetic soul.
And Mirren10 is quite intelligent and a *very* clear thinker, so none of the ugly mud that “jerry-the-jerk” slung her way is even *remotely* true. And Mirren10 is someone I consider a true ally, and also a dear friend.
But I see “jerry” projecting his own inadequacies and self-loathing onto other people. Also, I will NEVER consider “jerry” an ally as he requested. He hasn’t earned it, and he certainly doesn’t deserve it.
Champ says
I wrote:
Also, I will NEVER consider “jerry” an ally as he requested. He hasn’t earned it, and he certainly doesn’t deserve it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Watch, “jerry” will respond with his usual bull, “Oh, sorry you feel that way, but I still see you as an ally.”
What a phony. And the only thing that “jerry” can be counted on for is sarcasm, bullying and feigned friendship.
Champ says
“jerry” wrote:
Now, calling Champ “the perfect candidate for jihad recruitment,” is not just ad hominem, but a vicious insult, which she has done nothing whatsoever to deserve (from Mirren10).
It wasn’t intended to be ad hominem, it was an observation about his way of thinking by way of analogy. People that reject reason for superstition are prone to manipulation by others, and we see the proof for this every day in islam. If he was insulted then it’s probably because he saw some truth in what I said, Christians tend to hate the truth because it exposes their ignorant thinking.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Once again “jerry” proves that he’s a shameful LIAR by claiming that the malicious smear, aimed at me, “wasn’t intended to be ad hominem” …what rot! Of course it was. What is “jerry” if not a bold-faced LIAR. Wow.
gravenimage says
Jerry wrote:
I have to say Mirren, I was rather disappointed in that comment. I felt like I was getting kicked in the shin by a little sister cuz I told her Santa Claus wasn’t real…
……………………….
What rot. Mirren herself is a rational Atheist. This has nothing to do with her personal spiritual beliefs. As I said previously, one need not necessarily be Christian themselves to find your smearing of Christianity–and of individual Christians here–to be offensive.
Yet more:
Def. Self-deprecating: belittling or undervaluing oneself; excessively modest.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/self-deprecating
I’ll even use it in a sentence for you: Ya know Mirren, you are trying way too hard to seem witty and sophisticated and it’s having a self-deprecating effect on your posts.
……………………….
I’m afraid you still fail to grasp how “self-deprecating” is used.
If Mirren were to say that she is not at all experienced at dealing with sneering trolls and is probably handling things very poorly, I might tell her that she need not be so self-deprecating; that she is, actually, excellent at it.
Mirren10 says
Dear graven, thank you for weighing in on the side of truth, logic, and the fact that words have meaning.
One small correction, though. I don’t consider myself to be a rational * atheist*, but a rational *agnostic*. I think atheism is irrational and illogical. Xx
gravenimage says
Ah…my apologies, Mirren. I did know that. I know you and Wellington are both Agnostic. Too focused on the trolls, not enough on my friends here…
Champ ♥ says
Graven, thank you for being such a good, dear friend. I greatly appreciate you and your clear insightfulness and spot on observations. You are a formidable contributor to Jihad Watch. Take care!
gravenimage says
:), Champ!
gravenimage says
🙂 Champ!
Champ ♥ says
Mirren10 wrote:
Now, calling Champ “the perfect candidate for jihad recruitment,” is not just ad hominem, but a vicious insult, which she has done nothing whatsoever to deserve.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thank you, Mirren10, for defending what’s true about me. And for your great analysis of “jerry’s” nonsense. Your observations are all spot on.
And it’s clear that this guy “jerry” isn’t interested in stating what’s true about me, or any other Christian, for that matter, because he absolutely *hates* Christians, so everything he writes must pass through his brainwashed filter of hatred towards them, and this is what comes out: nasty, SARCASTIC hatred–ick!
I truly feel most sorry for any Christian that actually **knows** “jerry” personally–whether they be a Christian family member, co-worker, whomever–he must be an insufferable Jerk to deal with when the subject of Jesus or Christianity comes up. My God he’s awful! He’s probably the worst hater of Christians that I’ve encountered on Jihad Watch, and I’ve run into a LOT of them here.
Mirren10 says
”My God he’s awful! He’s probably the worst hater of Christians that I’ve encountered on Jihad Watch, and I’ve run into a LOT of them here.”
Very true, Champ. What I find so odd and curious about people like Jerry,( and *evil*, really) is that their fanatical hated of Christianity so far supersedes their hatred of Islamic murder, rape, theft, and destruction. Commanded and eulogised by the koran, and mohammed. None of which has *ever* been commanded, or condoned, by the tenets of Christianity. And yet they attempt to equate a belief in Christianity with the evil determination of jihadists to destroy human life as “the perfect candidate for jihad recruitment.” This is just deliberate refusal to examine texts, and to contemplate *truth*, logic, and clear reasoning. It really is a negation of morality, and logic.
What Christian has ever advocated doing to muslims, what muslims demand be done to Christians ? None, of course.
How very extraordinary to spend so much time denigrating Christianity, a creed which has never, in the modern world, advocated wholesale murder of ‘unbelievers’, and yet, spend so much **less** time in denigrating islam; in fact, spend the majority of one’s time slamming Christianity, to the extent of devoting several posts to the topic, and yet never once devoting a similar amount of time to denigrating/debunking the Islamic **texts** which teach that murder of the unbelievers, their rape, destruction of their property, and theft, is perfectly halal.
Ay di mi.
Champ says
What I find so odd and curious about people like Jerry,( and *evil*, really) is that their fanatical hated of Christianity so far supersedes their hatred of Islamic murder, rape, theft, and destruction.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes–I’ve noticed this, too, Mirren10!
And “jerry’s” thinking is so wrongheaded it borders on bizarre. All he does is bully, belittle, marginalize, insult, dismiss or mock the other person, and then he claims that he isn’t doing this. So he’s also a bald-faced liar, too.
Jerry says
I think it’s sad when someone is so insecure about their faith that the opinions of others can cause them so much anger and resentment. You’d think that if Christians truly had the kind of spiritual knowledge they claim to have they’d actually feel bad for atheists like me. A Christ-like response doesn’t get angry, overly defensive, or threatening over someone else’s spiritual misguidance. It employs compassion and understanding if at all possible. I rarely get that from Christians and that’s how I know they lack spiritual wisdom or knowledge. And their deficient use of logic and reason in explaining their religion convinces me even more, they have yet to learn the value of rational thought over magic and superstition. I’m prepared to give any Christian a chance to prove their faith in any debate. But honestly, I have never gotten more than various degrees of delusion. It seems the “smartest” Christians are those who are least involved with it. As an ex-Christian I can look back and see I was as deluded as the worst of them. And I’m grateful to those sane thinkers online that pulled me out of that valley of intellectual death about 18 years ago. They pointed out the flaws in my thinking and suggested things to read. Over time I began to choke on my own stupidity until I finally broke free. I’ve never looked back, I was once a slave but my chains are broken. Maybe someday I can do the same for someone else.
I am truly and without question done with this thread. And I did read your last posts Mirren, Graven, Champ, thanks but I’ve had enough. See you elsewhere.
Mirren10 says
”I am truly and without question done with this thread. And I did read your last posts Mirren, Graven, Champ, thanks but I’ve had enough. See you elsewhere.”
🙂 🙂
Oh, how **typical** of people like Jerry ! Throw out a load of meretricious crap, which has been deftly refuted by various commenters, refuse to reply to their arguments, then slink off, tail between legs, and refuse to engage with any points of argument, because ”I’ve had enough”. I expect he’s hunting madly for ‘safe places’, and muttering bitterly to himself about ‘micro-aggressions’. What a wanker, and how **utterly** pathetic. Such is the debating ability of the Left.
Well, I think that’s laid to rest any questions any of us might have had as to Jerry’s ability to sustain an argument, or to actually answer any of the questions put to him. What a pathetic little wanker ! 🙂
Champ says
True, Mirren10, he is a pathetic little wanker who wants to shit-on-us and run! …AND have the last word. Wow.
Funny how “jerry” considers himself to be the only adult in the room–but to my count–at least 10 other people see it otherwise, hmmm 😀
Oh wait–he did get *one* high-five from another ardent Christian-hater, so “jerry” did get SOME support on this thread. Big whoop, one wittle weasle gave him a high-five. Nevertheless, it must be counted, lol!
Mirren10 says
Indeed, Champ.
What we are seeing here, and really, I’m quite grateful for it, is a text book example of the cowardly pusillanimity of the Left, when faced with those who will challenge their meretricious, and **slanderous** nonsense.
Cowardice is something the Left refuses to acknowledge, To them, there is no such thing as cowardice, they twist language around so that cowardice actually means something entirely different. ‘Social justice warriors’ who cower, tails between legs, whenever they are actually asked to defend the evil crap they espouse. How I **despise** them all.
Mirren10 says
Champ, thank you for your kind comments. I consider you a dear friend and ally, also. X
Champ says
Thank you, dear Mirren10! 🙂
Paul N Silas says
War is coming, if not already here. The Cold War never ended, it just went underground. For those who doubt that, ask why the American Left wants to import more of them (IslamoNazis) here? Why the European Left is importing them by the thousands, and the FSB/KGB (Russian Left) controls and pays for many of the Islamic terror groups. Also why the Commie Chinese controls the Taliban in Afghanistan through Pakistan?
Putin’s anti-Muslin stance is a smoke screen! EVERYTHING on RT is Russian propaganda! He (Putin) just doesn’t want Jihadists on Russian soil, but has no problems supporting Syria or Iran.
If the KGB can so infiltrate the Roman Catholic church as to get a Marxist elected Pope, they sure as hell can infiltrate Islamic schools and mosques!.
Christianblood says
Paul N Silas
Are you kidding me? If anyone encouraged and emboldened global islamic jihadists it is not Russia or Putin but it is America meddling into the affairs of Arab dictators and the American, Western pro-jihadist forced regime changes in the ME and beyond. For example, today 130 Iraqi civilians are murdered in Bagdad. Now let me ask you a question: do you think these bombings in Iraq would be possible under Saddam Hussien’s regime? Why did America invaded and destabilized Iraq, Libya, and now Syria? Why is America backing, arming, funding, and training islamic jihadists from the Taliban and Alqaeda to Bosnian and Kosovo jihadists? Watch as your next president Hilarry Clinton openly explains this. Watch:
Paul N Silas says
You have just exposed yourself as a Russia troll/ Useful Idiot. Typical, blame America propaganda. If The Left isn’t behind the rise of Islamist terror, why is Russia paying members of ISIS? Why are many of many Islamic groups leaders trained by the KGB? Why is Iran one of Russia’s strongest allies? Why is it The Left who is encouraging massive Muslim immigration?
If the Left can infiltrate European Governments and many Christian denominations, they sure as hell can pull this off. “The greatest trick the Devil every played on us was to convince us that he does not exist”.
Paul N Silas says
Oh, and we should take Hillary’s word on this? One Marxist covering for another, lying liars covering for other lying liars.
Christianblood says
Paul N Silas
You are right that the Left is encouraging massive Muslim immigration but you are very wrong in accusing Russia for paying up ISIS and other islamic jihadist groups in Syria and elsewhere in the ME. Russia is backing the legal, internationally recognized government of Syria while the US, Nato, Turkey, Saudis, Qataris are all backing the jihadists that overthrow the Syrian secular government. I don’t know, where you are getting your information but Russia is NO pushing Left wing liberal agenda it is the US and the West who are crazily pushing postmodernist, moral relativist, politically-correct, (LGBTQ) agenda around the globe and doing it under the guise of “liberal democracy, human rights & freedom” and Russia only wants to stick its Orthodox Christianity and traditional moral principals and this is one major reason why the atheistic, pro-jihadist West hates Russia and call it “homophobic” etc…
Angemon says
Christianblood posted:
“Paul N Silas
You are right that the Left is encouraging massive Muslim immigration but you are very wrong in accusing Russia for paying up ISIS and other islamic jihadist groups in Syria and elsewhere in the ME. Russia is backing the legal, internationally recognized government of Syria while the US, Nato, Turkey, Saudis, Qataris are all backing the jihadists that overthrow the Syrian secular government.”
Not according to Khaled Khoja, the former president of the president of the National Coalition for Syrian Revolutionary and Opposition Forces – you know, the people who wanted Assad gone and had a stake on the whole matter, being Syrians living in Syria (as opposed to Russians in Russia) – who said earlier this year that “the U.S. never desired regime change in Syria and therefore did not take a decisive stand against Bashar Al-Assad despite his many crimes, and did not significantly support the Syrian opposition“.
“I don’t know, where you are getting your information but Russia is NO pushing Left wing liberal agenda it is the US and the West who are crazily pushing postmodernist, moral relativist, politically-correct, (LGBTQ) agenda around the globe and doing it under the guise of “liberal democracy, human rights & freedom””
Oh, please. Here’s a video from a KGB defector exposing how Russia spread what you are now decrying:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gnpCqsXE8g
And this is the part where you say “no, Angemon, that was decades ago, now Russia has nothing to do with it” (assuming you paid trolls are allowed to acknowledge Russia’s past). To which I say, “how, then, do you explain this anchorman of Russia Today, one of Kremlin’s propaganda outlets, recently pushing the same nonsense you’re allegedly decrying, like, for example, claiming that Orlando was caused by America’s gun laws and that the hashtag #NoMoreIslam was offensive and needless, or that Milo’s rhetoric is “offensive”?”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qdidq-FxWCk
“and Russia only wants to stick its Orthodox Christianity and traditional moral principals and this is one major reason why the atheistic, pro-jihadist West hates Russia and call it “homophobic” etc…”
Citation needed. Does “Orthodox Christianity and traditional moral principals[sic]” involve threatening nuclear war, sending military vehicles to violate the exclusive space of other nations, invading its neighbours, etc.? Because if it does it’s no wonder that Putin stated that Orthodox is closer to islam than it is to Catholicism and why he claimed to be the defender of the islamic world.
Angemon says
Paul N Silas posted:
“You have just exposed yourself as a Russia troll/ Useful Idiot. ”
Oh, CB goes back a long way, with his call to nuke the West and the US.
Christianblood says
Angemon
PLEASE KEEP THIS IN MIND: Russia is invited by the internationally recognized government of Syria and is there in Syria to legally assist the legimitate Syrian governments’ war against islamic terrorists such as ISIS, Alnusra and many others. But the US is on Syrian soil illegally and is backing international jihadist terrorist groups who fighting to overthrow the UN-recognized Syrian government. Do you get that?
By the way, a rag tag jihadist militia backed by US with hundreds of millions of dollars and new weaponry was routed yesterday by other jihadists in Syria, read how the crazed regime-changers in the US are miserably failing on their evil and stupid strategies to depose Assad and replace him with jihadists. Read it below:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/07/03/syrias-new-us-backed-force-stumbles-in-first-test.html
Angemon says
Christianblood posted:
“Angemon
PLEASE KEEP THIS IN MIND: Russia is invited by the internationally recognized government of Syria and is there in Syria to legally assist the legimitate Syrian governments’ war ”
“Internationally recognized government of Syria “? Does that include the US and NATO you’ve accused of trying to remove Assad from power?
“But the US is on Syrian soil illegally and is backing international jihadist terrorist groups who fighting to overthrow the UN-recognized Syrian government.”
See above question. As for this alleged accusation, I’ll just point out. again – not that it makes any difference to a troll on the Kremlin’s payroll, you’re not here to spread facts or have a honest discourse, just spread Kremlin’s propaganda – that the former President of the National Coalition for Syrian Revolutionary and Opposition Forces (you know, a Syrian who has a stake on the subject) recently attacked the international community and particularly the U.S., claiming that the U.S. never desired regime change in Syria and therefore did not take a decisive stand against Bashar Al-Assad despite his many crimes, and did not significantly support the Syrian opposition. But I guess you know what the US government wants and how they acted to achieve it better than the people in Syria who actually want Assad removed from power…
BTW, my question remains unanswered: does “Orthodox Christianity and traditional moral principals[sic]” involve threatening nuclear war, sending military vehicles to violate the exclusive space of other nations, invading its neighbours, etc.? Because if it does it’s no wonder that Putin stated that Orthodox is closer to islam than it is to Catholicism and why he claimed to be the defender of the islamic world.
Christianblood says
Erdogan opens $100mn Turkish cultural center in Maryland, blasts US elections’ Islamophobic rhetoric:
https://www.rt.com/usa/338200-erdogan-diyanet-islamophobic-elections/
Angemon says
175 million dollars mega mosque opens in Moscow, Putin invites Erdogan and Abbas to attend the grand opening:
gravenimage says
Yes–as Angemon shows, Muslims are invading both the West *and* Russia and setting up Mosques as outposts–and many of our leaders are cluelessly enabling this insanity.
If “Christianblood” had any decency, he would see this as proof that we need to unite against Jihad–instead, he just selectively uses this to bash the West, while ignoring the enabling of Jihad in Russia.
Just another indication that he hates the West far more than he cares about the terrible threat of Islam.
Angemon says
gravenimage posted:
“Just another indication that he hates the West far more than he cares about the terrible threat of Islam.”
If he considered islam a threat he wouldn’t praise it.
gravenimage says
Now “Christianblood” is backing Hillary Clinton? The very definition of “strange bedfellows”…
But, really, this is just another chance for him to pretend that it was the West that created Jihad.
Christianblood says
gravenimage
No Graven! I wanted a commenter above to see Hilary, in her own words as she explains how US, not Russia, created Al Qaeda and the Talibani jihadists in the eighties.
Angemon says
Christianblood posted:
“gravenimage
No Graven! I wanted a commenter above to see Hilary, in her own words as she explains how US, not Russia, created Al Qaeda and the Talibani jihadists in the eighties.”
Hi CB. Please remind us who were the regime-changers who overthrew he Afghani government in the late seventies and placed one of their puppets leading a government that was murdering tens of thousands of its citizens. The country behind that was, in fact, responsible for creating the taliban and al-qaeda. Who was it, CB? And try to be honest, for a change.
Christianblood says
Angemon
Watch Hilary Clinton, your next US president and she will tell you exactly who created, armed and funded the Taliban, OBL and Al-Qaeda: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dqn0bm4E9yw
Angemon says
Christianblood posted:
“Angemon
Watch Hilary Clinton, your next US president and she will tell you exactly who created, armed and funded the Taliban, OBL and Al-Qaeda: ”
Again, and for the nth time:
a) I’m not American.
b) Hillary Clinton is a serial liar to the point you look like a honest person by comparison.
c) The taliban and al-qaeda were groups formed to resist the Russian failed regime-change and consequent invasion of Afghanistan.
BTW, isn’t it funny how misleading and dishonest the title of the video is? Also, my questions remain unanswered: does “Orthodox Christianity and traditional moral principals[sic]” involve threatening nuclear war, sending military vehicles to violate the exclusive space of other nations, invading its neighbours, etc.? Because if it does it’s no wonder that Putin stated that Orthodox is closer to islam than it is to Catholicism and why he claimed to be the defender of the islamic world. And please remind us who were the regime-changers who overthrew he Afghani government in the late seventies and placed one of their puppets leading a government that was murdering tens of thousands of its citizens. The country behind that was, in fact, responsible for creating the taliban and al-qaeda. Who was it, CB?
Christianblood says
Angemon
Please refresh yourself with the new facts on How the US Helped Create Al Qaeda and ISIS and dumb the crazy and useless establishment lies and propaganda they filled in your head:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/09/19/how-the-us-helped-create-al-qaeda-and-isis/
Angemon says
Christianblood posted:
“Angemon
Please refresh yourself with the new facts on How the US Helped Create Al Qaeda and ISIS”
“Facts”? Coming from you? Easier to have sunlight coming from a pitch black night…
“and dumb the crazy and useless establishment lies and propaganda they filled in your head:”
And to counter these alleged “lies and propaganda” you often link to Russia Today and Sputnik News – Kremlin propaganda outlets – and you’re now linking to CounterPunch, a shamelessly unapologectic left-wing biased rag (for f***’s sake, it calls itself “The Fearless Voice of the American Left Since 1993”) that, as any left-leaning source, hasn’t seen anything they can’t blame on the US, no matter how asinine and far-fetched.
Anyway, please remind us who were the regime-changers who overthrew the Afghani government in the late seventies and placed one of their puppets leading a government that was murdering tens of thousands of its citizens. The country behind that was, in fact, responsible for creating the taliban and al-qaeda. Who was it, CB?
Raja says
Christianblood,
You comments are generally flawed and peppered with half truths. Ali Sina has CONTRARIAN VIEWS to your . He has posted conversations of Aj Jazeera journalists etc of how Muslims are leaving in thousands EVERY DAY..
You have a long way to go in comprehending THE SCHEMING AND PLOTTING OF Islamic war and propaganda machine and of its leaders/think tank.
Raja says
Typo error:
Leaving Islam
Contrarian views to yours.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
BenDavid says
Mate, this is JihadWatch NOT PutinWatch! Focus on Islam (and the regressive left) instead. If America trys to fight radical Islam and Putin at the same time, America will lose. The ONLY way to fight (radical) Islam is in partnership with Russia’s Putin. However if USA further demonizes Putin, it will put him unwillingly in a position to ally with the global Jihadis, or better use them, only to defeat America and afterwards to nuke them all (Jihadis and Jihadists supporting countries). The key for a global peace lies in a strong partnership between USA and Russia.
Christianblood says
BenDavid posted
(..The ONLY way to fight (radical) Islam is in partnership with Russia’s Putin. However if USA further demonizes Putin, it will put him unwillingly in a position to ally with the global Jihadis, or better use them, only to defeat America and afterwards to nuke them all..)
Well-said BenDavid!
US/Nato keep saying Russia is an éxistential threat” to them
while at the same time they are arming islamic jihadists in Libya, in Syria and elsewhere. Prof. Seven Cohen said it well. Please watch as he warns the danger of constantly demonizing and conering Russia:
gravenimage says
Another assertion that had better be nice to people who abuse us, or else they will join the Jihad against us…
Christianblood says
gravenimage
Russia abuses no body, in fact as Prof. Steven Cohen, (the foremost scholar on Russia in the US) says in the video I provided you above, president Putin tried very hard to work with the US but only got responses of demonization, hate and cheap anti-Russian propaganda in return. As for the Ukrainian Bouch and its regime-changing creators please watch the Must-Watch video clip below which will summarize it for you in two short minutes:
Angemon says
Christianblood posted:
“gravenimage
Russia abuses no body,”
Bwahahahahahahaha!!! Let no one say you don’t have a sense of humour.
“in fact as Prof. Steven Cohen, (the foremost scholar on Russia in the US)”
Citation needed.
Wellington says
“Russia abuses no body {sic}.”
Are you effing for real, Christianblood?
Try asking the Czechs and Poles if Russia under Putin, never mind under First Secretaries and Czars, abuses no one. My God man, Russia, which has THOUSANDS of nuclear missiles, threatened Poland and the Czech Republic, should either accept AN EXTREMELY LIMITED missile defense which could take out a missile or two from a rogue regime like Iran, with, in effect, annihilation if it accepted such limited missile defense from America, which Obama pathetically caved on as he has so many times with dictatorial and authoritarian regimes.
And you aver that Russia threatens no one? Are you for real? Don’t you even grasp that propaganda must not be as blatant and erroneous as you present it TIME AND TIME AGAIN for it to be at least half believable? If I were a dictator and hired you to shrill for me I would have fired you long ago for being so clumsy in defending me.
While you’re at it, also ask the Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians, Slovaks, Romanians (btw, my brother dated a Romanian and she told him that Romanians detest Russia), Hungarians, et al., if they think “Russia abuses no body.” But you never will.
Let me give you a piece of advice. Here it is: Your unremitting praise of Russia, with no criticism of it whatsoever, even though it deserves a huge amount of criticism, has, in effect, made you a laughing stock here at JW as commenters like gravenimage and Angemon have pointed out time and time again.
Your “the West is terrible, blah, blah, blah,” is a broken record which only a fool wouldn’t realize is counter-productive. And, btw, notice how many in Western nations, myself included, have criticized Western leaders for their sucking up to Islam and doing other stupid things time and time again. But you, by contrast, are stupidly “all Russia all the time.” Good I say because, as is the case with fools in general, you reveal far more than you realize.
My God man, how effing stupid can you be? Apparently you are doing your best to take “effing stupid” to new lows. I certainly have seen nothing from you to conclude otherwise. Done here you rank apologist for a country which has NEVER grasped the importance of liberty.
Christianblood says
Wellington
Remember, it is not in the nineties and Russia will not be pushed around anymore by the crazed, “transgendered” and pro-jihad US/Nato regime-changers. Russia will stand for its own global interests and with the help of Christ, will overcome the evil Anti-Christ alliance of islamo-fascists and their atheistic US/Nato allies. God is now on Russia’s side:
http://www.wnd.com/2014/04/is-god-now-on-russias-side/#!
Angemon says
Christianblood posted:
“Russia will stand for its own global interests”
Thank you, CB, for proving me right when I stated that Russian intervention in Syria was not, as you claimed, a selfless effort to help Christians but an exercise in geopolitics and power-mongering. I doubt that the people who sign your checks will be pleased though – but with the level of quality control often associated with Russia, I don’t think that’ll be a problem…
Mark Swan says
Yes Indeed That Is it Wellington—Thank You—Words probably waisted on Him–
Yet much needed to be heard by many of us.
gravenimage says
Oddly–or perhaps not so oddly–“Christianblood” seems to have no problem with the assertion that Putin might ally with Jihadists…
Angemon says
BenDavid posted:
“If America trys to fight radical Islam and Putin at the same time, America will lose. The ONLY way to fight (radical) Islam is in partnership with Russia’s Putin. However if USA further demonizes Putin,”
Huh, what? Are you watching the news? It’s not the US that’s demonizing Putin, it’s Putin and Russia who are demonizing the West, and especially the US.
Christianblood says
Angemon
If you want to really know who is demonizing who please watch this distinguished American scholar on Russia as he honestly discusses this issue and please stop spreading the establishment lies and baseless propaganda against Russia and their leaders: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv2f6ZZmx4A
Angemon says
Christianblood posted:
“Angemon
If you want to really know who is demonizing who”
I have eyes and ears. I’ve seen you accusing the US of wanting to murder Christians and training troops specifically to do so. I’ve seen you telling me to read articles that allegedly corroborate your stories when, in fact, a cursory look let me know they debunked them. I’ve seen you, because of me pointing out how your alleged “evidence” was, in fact, damning to your case, claiming the site you brought up and quoted from was “anti-Russian”.
In short, I know who’s demonizing who, thank you very much.
Christianblood says
Angemon
Do you know CIA spent $3 Billion on creating Al-Qaeda and gave BILLIONs to Osama bin Laden and the Taliban: http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=0228
Angemon says
Christianblood posted:
“Angemon
Do you know CIA spent $3 Billion on creating Al-Qaeda ”
Again – and for the nth time: al-qaeda was a resistance movement against Russian failed regime change and consequent invasion of Afghanistan. Heck, you even *lie* about what your link says: nowhere in there is says the CIA created al-qaeda. Not the first time you do that, and certainly not the last.
And you wonder why you’re not taken seriously…
Anyway, please remind us who were the regime-changers who overthrew the Afghani government in the late seventies and placed one of their puppets leading a government that was murdering tens of thousands of its citizens. The country behind that was, in fact, responsible for creating the taliban and al-qaeda. Who was it, CB?
duh_swani says
Moral teachings? Is the Quran a moral book? It is if your idea of morality is twisted into an Allah-knot..Apostasy is the only way to untie it…
abad says
I was going to say the same thing! There are no moral teachings in the Quran – only immoral teachings.
Like killing infidels, taqiyya, and deceiving because you know Allah is the Great Deceiver AKA Father of the Lie, Satan
Greyhound Fancier says
I think that is the main reason that Islam appeals to some young men. All their bad behavior is countenanced and encouraged as a religious duty. They can’t lose (except if they end up believing that their sins can only be excused by suiciding while killing infidels).
Emilie Green says
“Hey, MO, we got this problem. We can’t get this gizmo off the donkey cart.”
“Hmmmm, I see. Lemme think about it. I’ll see if I can come up with a solution.”
[Some time passes as our McGuffin ponders]
“Ah ha. Allah has given me a solution. I just found it in the bottom on my sock drawer. See, Allah is all knowing about torque wrenches.”
PRCS says
And where the sun sets.
Mark Swan says
A Sun Dial Torque Wrench—maybe they did invent everything.
gravenimage says
Allah doesn’t know crap about torque wrenches–Muhammed would just advise his followers to enslave an Infidel and have him figure it out, or else to just blow up the donkey cart in a crowd of unbelievers. Either way, problem solved…
Michael Laudahn says
Why did he join in the first place?
salim says
Good question, which our governments should have asked, and answered, long time ago .
I still say it is both very absurd and alarming for people who grew up in the West to consider joining islam, especially in the last 16 years (after 9/11). To me, this is beyond comprehension and signifies the grave state of morality and cultural decline that call for investigation and measures to put things right.
As an ex Muslim, I understand well why Muslims by birth are fanatic to islam (which, in short, is due to the intensive brain washing that starts a few minutes after birth and continues throughout life).
I believe it is a moral duty for the West to look at this with objective of helping Muslims to exit to islam and stopping others joining it.
salim says
sorry, should have been exit islam, not to islam.
abad says
Westerners who convert to Islam do so for one reason:
To prove to themselves only (certainly NOT to prove to the rest of the world) that Islam is a Religion of Peace(TM).
Then when they discover Islam is NOT a Religion of Peace(TM) they want out.
Ismaa’eel Abu Adam is living proof of it.
Need I say more?
Christianblood says
abad
Thousands of young people in the Western world are deceived into converting to this islamic death cult because most of these young people are bored in the materialistic, superficial life that exists in the Western world today. They are looking to find some deeper meaning in life. Unfortunately, Christian churches in the West could have covered this deep spiritual and philosophical needs in the Western society but these “churches” themselves are secularized are spiritually bankrupt and morally confused. In the Eastern Orthodox countries, Christianity is deeper, more spiritual, more mystical and allow profound spiritual and philosophical reflections/ contemplations whereas Western Christianity both (Catholics & Protestants) God is confined in a tiny rational secular box and Christianity is limited to attending churches on Sundays etc. There are no meaningful spiritual monasteries in the Western world and the few that exists are themselves secularized with computer games etc and have NO spiritual/philosophical dimensions to them. There are No ascetics in the West, No monastics, No mystics, No Holy seekers of God who move among the masses with their Crosses, icons and relics, No personal Theosis and Christhood mystical enlightenment goals. There is huge spiritual bankruptcy in the West and until these problems are addressed millions of young people in the West, will either keep converting to the islamic death cult and become homicidal jihadists or will try to fill the empty void in their hearts with drugs, sex, satanism, violent gangsterism, empty materialism, consumerism, sexual perversions and all kinds of other superficial and evil practices. Check out this “Christhood” video:
Angemon says
Christianblood posted:
“abad
Thousands of young people in the Western world are deceived into converting to this islamic death cult”
Citation needed.
“because most of these young people are bored in the materialistic, superficial life that exists in the Western world today. ”
Are you reading from islamic apologists dawah manuals? You *are*, aren’t you?
Angemon says
Christianblood posted:
“And now, the West under the guise of spreading “secular liberal democracy & freedom” pushed the same decadent values on other countries and especially on Russia.”
Citation needed. Oh, BTW – the alleged lack of values you’re decrying? It’s the result of decades of Russia pushing its ideology on the West:
salim says
Convert to Islam to prove it is peaceful? It is like moving to live with a serial killer to be satisfied that he is not a serial killer!
I am an agnostic but I do believe that Christianity could have helped to protect the west from Islam. In Europe, where I live, most people describe themselves as atheists who do not believe in religions but I do not really believe they are. They are just have not been exposed to religion and they fall on their first encounter with one, usually islam. Atheism is not for everyone and many people need some spiritual leadership.
Without religion, the west lost many of its values (especially the family values) and some may say it also lost its self respect, even identity.
salim says
May I add that Christian Arabs do not convert to Islam. Unlike the Europeans, their Christian and family values are vey good and strong.
Christianblood says
salim posted
(..Without religion, the west lost many of its values (especially the family values) and some may say it also lost its self respect, even identity..)
Very well-said! And now, the West under the guise of spreading “secular liberal democracy & freedom” pushed the same decadent values on other countries and especially on Russia. For example, in Russia, the West have been trying very hard to weaken the holy Orthodox Church and Christian social conservatism there while at the same time promoting their moral relativist (LGBTQ) agenda as well as political correctness and postmodernist system but thanks to president Putin’s great leadership they failed miserably.
Watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-9_yxNrLZE
gravenimage says
abad wrote:
Westerners who convert to Islam do so for one reason:
To prove to themselves only (certainly NOT to prove to the rest of the world) that Islam is a Religion of Peace(TM).
……………………..
But this is only true of a few converts, abad. Of Westerners who convert to Islam, many do so in prison–they are well aware ahead of time that Islam is a violent creed–that is, indeed, much of its appeal.
gravenimage says
“Christianblood” is again ranting that people are bored under freedom and that Catholics and Protestants are actually ‘unbelievers’.
The idea that post-Communist Russia–which is only 50% Christian–is actually universally captivated by ascetics and mystics and monks is absolutely absurd.
The implication that there are no problems with drugs and gangsterism in Russia is ridiculous, as well. In fact, organized crime is infamously burgeoning in Russia. Drug problems are rife there.
His implication that there are no Orthodox Christians in the West is also ridiculous. There is full religious freedom here. I have several Russian and Greek Orthodox Churches within easy walking distance of where I live.
In fact, I several times attended Russian Orthodox church services with an elderly Russian neighbor as a child during the 1960s–during a period when the church was being harassed and oppressed in the Soviet Union.
The idea that millions of Americans are converting to Islam is also utter claptrap–although those who do convert are, of course, a real danger.
The idea that Russians never convert to Islam is also quite false:
“Russia Sees a Threat in Its Converts to Islam”
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/02/world/russia-sees-a-threat-in-its-converts-to-islam.html
None of this is to bash Russia–but just to note that Russia is dealing with many of the same issues the West is.
But “Christianblood” is only interested in bashing the free West.
He has, in fact, many times gleefully looked forward to the West being conquered and enslaved by Islam.
In the end, “Christianblood’s” virulent hatred of freedom trumps everything–certainly any antipathy he might have towards Islam.
More:
For example, in Russia, the West have been trying very hard to weaken the holy Orthodox Church…but thanks to president Putin’s great leadership they failed miserably.
Watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-9_yxNrLZE
………………………
The West is doing nothing here to prevent former KGB officer Vladimir Putin from attending Orthodox church services. The implication that they are doing so is, in fact, belied by this video. There is, of course, no Western disruption of this service at all–nor would there be.
Christianblood says
gravenimage posted
(..and that Catholics and Protestants are actually unbelievers).
Graven, when did I say such something like that? Many things you said in your comment are like you are desperately putting words into my mouth. To also correct you, over eighty percent of Russians are baptized Orthodox Christians and even though many in the big cities don’t attend church regularly they are still believers in the Orthodox faith and the situation is very different in the rural areas and smaller towns. Please refresh your self with the latest census and research done at 2015 on this whole subject:
https://www.russian/orthodox/church67over83percent//growing671
Finally, (GI) I challenge you to find me a single Western leader, either in the US or in the EU who is openly and unashamedly participating in a Church mass, venerating holy icons or making the sign of the Cross openly as done the one only Christian leader in the world today (Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin) as documented in the media many, many times. Again, I challenge you to find me a single Western leader doing the same thing as this fearless holy leader of Russia who is totally unashamed of Cross in this sinful and adulterous generation as recorded in the holy gospels. (St. Markos 8:38). Watch him again please:
Jay Boo says
I am more concerned about what Christianblood DID NOT SAY to abad.
Christianblood criticizes the West but says nothing about the spiritual EMPTINESS that is so prevalent when Muslims start to learn the disgraceful sordid truth about Muhammad’s despicable life.
Christianblood says
Angemon
Do you know man is a Trinity which consists of mind/body/soul and
majority of Westerners are today focusing only on the body to the detriment of their souls and minds and that creates all kinds of problems for the typical Western individual? That is why some are converting to islam and many millions of others are living on drugs or committing suicide every year.
Angemon says
Christianblood posted:
“That is why some are converting to islam”
Citation needed.
“and many millions of others are living on drugs or committing suicide every year.”
Citation needed. Also:
http://time.com/3398086/the-worlds-deadliest-drug-inside-a-krokodil-cookhouse/
Also, I advise AGAINST googling images of “Russia desomorphine”
BTW, here are some stats on suicide per capita (100,000 people) per country:
http://apps.who.int/gho/data/node.main.MHSUICIDE?lang=en
Russian Federation: 19.5. United States: 12.1. United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland: 6.2. France: 12.3. Germany: 9.2. Sweden: 11.1. Georgia: 3.2.
What do those stats tell you, going by your “logic”?
Christianblood says
Jay Boo posted
(..Christianblood criticizes the West but says nothing about the spiritual EMPTINESS that is so prevalent when Muslims start to learn the disgraceful sordid truth about Muhammad’s despicable life..)
You are right Jay Boo. But since you are really good at it, I left that part for you to share it with abad. Thank you.
Ex-muslim says
@ Christianblood
Obama was speaking a Catholic University (Notre Dam) a few years back he or others in his team requested the removal of a large Christian Cross which was appearing behind his podium so that it is not seen by the public on TVs and the church covered the Cross with blankets. My point is that let alone Western leaders venerating Crosses or icons they are even hiding the Crosses that stand in the Churches or Universities whey they are speaking. Just as muslims see the Cross as the most offensive symbol in the world so are the Western leaders Western postmodernist societies. In short (CB) there is NO a leader like Putin in the West. In defiance to God’s moral law Westerners openly celebrate sexual shame, perversion and all kinds of immoralities and call it “pride” and “freedom” while they shun and despise the Cross. They are pure evil and Anti-Christ and they will be judged and destroyed by the God they are mocking and insulting daily.
Angemon says
Ex-muslim posted:
“Obama was speaking a Catholic University (Notre Dam) a few years back (…) My point is that let alone Western leaders”
Ah, from “Obama” to “Western leaders” – totally not deceitful or dishonest, right? 😉
gravenimage says
“Christianblood” wrote:
gravenimage posted
(..and that Catholics and Protestants are actually unbelievers).
Graven, when did I say such something like that? Many things you said in your comment are like you are desperately putting words into my mouth.
………………………………..
You have said many times here that you do not regard Catholics and Protestants to be real Christians.
More:
To also correct you, over eighty percent of Russians are baptized Orthodox Christians and even though many in the big cities don’t attend church regularly they are still believers in the Orthodox faith and the situation is very different in the rural areas and smaller towns. Please refresh your self with the latest census and research done at 2015 on this whole subject:
https://www.russian/orthodox/church67over83percent//growing671
………………………………..
That link does not work. Wikipedia puts those who identify as Christian in Russia as 50%. A Pew Study put the figure at about this in 1998. Smaller studies suggest that this figure may have risen to as high as 72% by 2008. The Christian Science Monitor puts the figure at around 70%, as does the Washington Times.
More:
Finally, (GI) I challenge you to find me a single Western leader, either in the US or in the EU who is openly and unashamedly participating in a Church mass, venerating holy icons or making the sign of the Cross openly as done the one only Christian leader in the world today (Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin) as documented in the media many, many times.
………………………………..
“Venerating holy icons”–Catholics and Protestants do not venerate icons. Most Christians in the West are Catholic or Protestant, but “Chrisitanblood” shows by this that he does not consider them to count as Christians here.
But there actually are and have been quite a few Americans and Canadian politicians who are Eastern Orthodox. They include but are not limited to:
Senators Spencer Abraham (who also served as Energy Secretary), Paul Sarbanes, Olympia Snowe, and Paul Tsongas; Congresspersons Justin Amash, Melissa Bean, Helen Delich Bentley, Michael Bilirakis, Nick Galifianakis, George Gekas, Michael Huffington, Nicholas Mavroules, and John Sarbanes; Governors Rod Blagojevich and Michael Dukakis (who was also the Democratic candidate for president in 1988); George Tenet – former CIA Director; Eleni Bakopanos, former Canadian Member of Parliament; Tony Clement, former Ontario Minister of Health and federal MP; and Ray Hnatyshyn, Governor-General of Canada.
Of course, all of these people could worship freely in the West, which was hardly the case in Russia for decades.
More:
Again, I challenge you to find me a single Western leader doing the same thing as this fearless holy leader of Russia who is totally unashamed of Cross in this sinful and adulterous generation as recorded in the holy gospels. (St. Markos 8:38). Watch him again please:
………………………………..
Yes, this is grimly laughable:
http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2016/01/11/kgb-christians-putin-stalin-kgbs-history-manipulating-orthodox-church/
As part of the KGB, Putin in fact was part of an organization that persecuted Christians.
John Marst says
I don’t know about a moral duty of the West, but I do believe there are many who would leave Islam if not for totalitarian coercion, but expressed and implied.
“Saudi Arabia,” one Saudi woman told a reporter anonymously, “is the largest women’s prison on Earth.” Empowering such women would be a big step, but don’t expect Western feminists to help. They are too obsessed with matters like sexist air-conditioning (and no, that is not a joke).
John Marst says
both expressed and implied
eduardo odraude says
If coercion were prevented within Islam, only a minority would leave, to begin with. But without coercion, it would not take long for the whole thing to collapse, because without coercion, those in the Muslim world who are sensitive to the cruelty of Muhammad and his brutal, expansionist totalitarian program would be constantly talking about it in public, in the news, on television. Since they could no longer be killed for doing so, critics would be heard relentlessly within the Islamic world. That relentless criticism of the moral depravity of Islam as shown in the core texts would lead to a continual loss of adherents to Islam, especially if apostates could no longer be killed. The whole thing would collapse fairly quickly, as communism collapsed suddenly when the Berlin Wall fell. The difference with Islam is that the “iron curtain” is in most cases within the Muslim mind. But with freedom, that curtain would fall, and Islam would soon be reduced to a tiny fringe sect, like neo-Nazis or Klu Klux Klan today.
Raja says
Salim,
The West has produced CUCKOOS in the PCMC culture and the Islamic terrorists know it too well that THIS IS THE OPPORTUNE TIME TO MOVE IN —-TO KILL.
Your comments are worth reading.
Cunamarra says
I remember this guy’s videos and having a few online arguments with him. I cannot help but to recognize that there is a moral and intellectual perversion in anyone who defends Islam. However, I found him to be extremely devoted and studious of Islam and Islamic texts though a bit evasive in dealing with glaring pernicious teachings in Islam. I stopped following his videos a few years ago. It is good to see that in his sincerity in wishing to be good and for Islam to be good, he could not evade the truth for too long. Sixteen years is a long time.
Still, I am forever puzzled by people who appear to be good in many ways yet are not able to immediately recognize a problem with the Koran upon reading it for the first time.
Michael Laudahn says
I haven’t read the koran and refuse to do so. I also refuse to ‘argue’ with these people – ie those who have come here without being invited – because it doesn’t make sense. Your agument will achieve nothing, you only give them the impression that you accept their presence. The only thing a dedicated layman can do, unless I’m totally wrong, is ask them what they are doing here, why they’re not in their own countries, and more such obvious things. And then again – and again, and again. Never stop. That’s our concern, not the ‘rights/wrongs’ of their ideology-posing-as-religion.
Re koran reading, I rely on people like Robert Spencer who have (and so much more), and confirm what I already had expected for – shall we say – instinctive reasons. This of course is valuable, because it makes me so much more secure.
Cunamarra says
I’m not sure what country you are from but this particular man is from the US and converted to Islam. He did not come here from a foreign land. Perhaps my argument did achieve nothing but someone’s argument did plant a seed of reason into his mind and did eventually cause him to rethink is monstrous position.
As for foreign Muslims coming into Western nations, they were invited here by the myopic and treacherous leaders of those nations. Those nations even fund Muslims establishing themselves in those nations.
I can answer the questions you pose to them for you. What Muslims are doing in Western or non Islamic lands is establishing and spreading Islam while enjoying all the benefits a Judaeo Christian or other non Islamic society creates. They are not in Islamic countries because Islamic countries are cacotopic nightmares.
I read the Koran for the first time in 2004 before I had ever heard of Robert Spencer. At that time I shamefully believed that Islam was largely a religion of peace that resembled Christianity in many ways, for this is what I had been taught by college professors and “scholarly” books and articles. However, perhaps like you, I suspected there must be something in the Koran that was, at the least, easily “twisted” in order for Muslims the world over to justify settling somewhere and then always violently demand an autonomous state under Muslim rule.
What I never accepted from my college professors was the notion that words have no meaning and that language has no purpose. I did not accept that the phrase “drink coffee” could just as easily be the instruction for building an automobile if only I interpreted it in the right way. And so, when I read the Koran I accepted that it meant what it said. I found what it said to be disturbing to say the least. My assessment of it was that its author was motivated by a profound hatred of mankind and that the Koran’s objective was to destroy man’s mind. It reverses the standard by which rational men judge good from evil. What it IS is doctrine for ruling/governing a society, largely a war manifesto with all the conditioning to cause its adherents to hate and despise non Muslims, and a moral code that absurdly posits lying, murder, theft, rape, marriage and sex with prepubescent girls, maiming, hatred and enmity all as moral positives.
If you have not noticed, Islam is protected by out right lies, obfuscation, evasions of reality, dissembling, false premises, irrational logic, and a myriad of notions that in a sane and world of reason ought to be easily toppled by simply stating the truth yet are so entrenched in our societies as to give the appearance of an impenetrable fortress.
After reading the Koran I could not allow a discussion of Islam or the problems with Islamic people or nations to pass without attacking the mountain of lies being thrown around with intellectual impunity. The arguments I was having were not with Muslims but with everyday American and European peoples vehemently defending Muslims and Islam in particular. You have to attack many horrible ideas that exist in our society in the absence of Islam before even getting to Islam. It was not encouraging but Men are never to be in despair.
It was in 2007 that one of our interpreters who was a Copt and another interpreter who was a Scotch Irish Tennessean finally shared some if not all of my positions and introduced me to Robert Spencer. Now tears are for women and children only, but I would be dishonest if I were to declare that a lump did not appear in my throat when I finally heard someone speaking in public discourse honestly about Islam after so many years of being told that up is down.
Incidentally, many of those people I’ve had so many heated discussions with, have begun changing their mind. A decade in coming. A lie cannot live forever.
eduardo odraude says
Excellent comment. Eloquent, and gives real hope when the chips are down.
Greyhound Fancier says
In “A Mighty Fortress” it says, “one little word shall fell them”. Islam originates in Hell, and Satan devised it to handicap people so that they couldn’t easily follow Jesus. The little word that fells them I think refers to a word from God, and the lies and horrors of Islam will fall. We may not live to see it, but one day it will be gone.
Sam Hawkins says
I agree with eduardo. Thank you for taking the time to write out this moving and inspiring comment.
gravenimage says
Yes, Cunamarra–words *do* matter, whether ‘deconstructionists’ believe they do or not.
Michael Laudahn says
I must admit that I used your comment to veer off to some related aspect, thus was not spot-on. Trying to relate to your reply would probably confuse the whole thing and not add any value. So time to say good-bye for this time, it would seem.
Ganesha_akbar says
Breaking: Outside Eli Wiesel’s funeral I heard a huge explosion just now. Running into Central Park and found a young man with his left leg blown off
https://twitter.com/SarahMaslinNir/status/749620366734159872?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Enews%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Jay Boo says
Believed to be fireworks accident
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/blast-elie-wiesel-funeral-central-park-severs-man-leg-article-1.2697682
gravenimage says
This happened some distance from Eli Wiesel’s funeral, although it was heard there.
This *may* have been some sort of IED, but chances are more likely that it was some sort of stupid homemade firework. Sadly, most years around July 4th there are some sorts of mishaps like this one.
KPDC says
The responses from Muslims to this video on YouTube seem to all assert ‘I am not familiar with the teaching that Muslims can take women as spoils of war and rape them. However, if it is said in the Quran and by Muhammad then it must be ok, even if we don’t understand the teaching’.
If I react negatively to this line of thinking does that make me an Islamophobe?
Dov Berrol says
One of the core reasons Mohammedans hate Jews is that there is a spirit in Judaic culture and philosophy that warns against blindly submitting to directives and rules. We do not submit easily. And the Hebrew Bible is filled with stories where Israelites even challenge G-d (Abraham in the Sodom story and Moses in Sinai). Even Jacob “wrestles” with a messenger of G-d and prevails: which is where the name “Israel” comes from. So it is not surprising that there is a Jewish interpretation of the Binding of Isaac that frames the story as a test which Abraham failed. G-d wanted to see if Abraham was wise enough to rebel against a directive to kill his own son, and Abraham failed. Because G-d saw that Abraham needed more learning, the Israelites were not taught the Ten Commandments until many generations later. The people needed to learn about the wisdom of respecting all life in this world. And to be trained never to idolize any teaching that goes against basic human decency, and not to idolize any leader or supposed prophet or teacher who teaches otherwise. Questioning a directive is a good thing.
dsinc says
Yes
Cunamarra says
Interesting.
One of the video responses from a Muslim to this “apostate” makes the point that “even if rape is taught by Allah and Muhammad it is not for ibn Adam to decide it is wrong.”
gravenimage says
Yes–in Islam one is never to question Muhammed, the Qur’an, or Allah.
Something is moral not because of its ethicality, but simply because it was enjoined in the Qur’an and Hadith, or practiced by the “Prophet”.
Pious Muslims have hence claimed that child marriage should not be questioned on ethical grounds, because it makes Muhammed look immoral. No sense of whether child rape itself *is* immoral.
eduardo odraude says
Dov Berrol,
Isn’t there a point in the Bible where someone (Abraham? Moses?), during the course of a dialog with God, sort of reprimands God (or maybe “reprimand” is little too strong) and advises God to do something differently, and God accepts the reprimand and agrees to the different course?
eduardo odraude says
Dov, here is another point to back up what you say. According to the world history text of Stephen Morillo (who is not a Christian or a Jew), a key reason European societies evolved during the course of history was that the Bible conceived God as working through covenants — contracts — not pure compulsion. Thus in Europe, even feudalism was in some sense conceived as fundamentally a contractual arrangement, even if it took a long time for the full implications of that to emerge in the breakdown of feudalism.
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
One of the core reasons Mohammedans hate Jews is that…
… Allah said they were descendants of apes and pigs. Or there was that bush that called to a Moslem to kill the Jew hiding behind it. The core reasons Moslems hate Jews is that Islam is explicitly a Jew hating doctrine.
gravenimage says
Important point, Dov.
Mark Swan says
Reading this account of Abraham being put to the supreme test of his life, God at this time who had been working with Abraham personally for decades—told Him to take His Son Isaac and offer Him as a sacrifice to God—Responding in absolute obedience and faith, Abraham was at the point of offering up His Son—
But the Angel of the Lord called to him from heaven and said, “Abraham, Abraham!”
So he said, “Here I am.”
And He said, “Do not lay your hand on the lad, or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.”
Abraham demonstrated willingness and obedience to God and was loved and blessed greatly for it.
He passed the test of faith God tested Him with—Showing Angels and Humans that all things are
possible with God—that a Human could be Righteous.
Yes God let both Abraham (concerning Lot) and Moses (concerning Israel) reason with Him—
they were both Righteous (willing and obedient)—He loved them and would listened to them.
Carolyne says
Am the only one here who understands how ridiculous that is? The first recorded instance of child abuse. What kind of God would even suggest such a thing, if only to frighten Abraham. I don’t think a loving God would do such a thing nor do I think there is such a being. That is cruel, not “Loving and merciful.”
Mark Swan says
Carolyne because it is You, and You made Your comment in the form of a Question:
I felt the same way when I first read it many years ago–we live on a planet soaked in our own blood—caused by our own doing— Not God’s—God called Abraham His Good Friend—Abraham did obey God unconditionally—Did Abraham know everything God knows—of course not—but as a Human he knew God very well. He understood that what is most import to God is Love—Unconditional Love the way Only God Can Love. The first few Commandments makes it clear this Being demands respect—which is
a very significant point since no Love can come without it—it is vital we must have respect, or we can not function with any other words like love.
So We must love God with all that we are, and have out flowing concern for all others—sounds simple enough—I mean how many of us just throw that word at anything that seems to suite us, right.
But this word surpasses every other word with God and Us when it is fully comprehended for meaning and purpose—love and respect are inseparable.
God is concerned with life—not death—God is the source of all life—every heart beat—every breath, it is all there because he wants it that way, made it happen, and sustains it.
He is involved in reproducing God Beings—through Human Beings—One of the two members of the God family was allowed to be emptied and started all over again in the womb and become fully Human for good reason—Human life was required to pay for sin (the wages of sin is death)—and only a perfect real flesh and blood Human could pay for any and all sin. But beyond that a Judge was being prepared that had been tested in the flesh just as all humans would be.
Did He pass the test of Obedience, Respect and Love—yes absolutely with flying colors in fact, and now sits as The High Judge.
God gave Satan every perfect advantage and he failed miserably—There will be no more created Beings like Him again, not ever in God’s world.
So Obedience, Respect, and Love—do translate equally with God.
Every Human will be tested continually—and maybe even at some point with life or death.
I hope this helps the way I tried to explain it, maybe the best I can here.
Take Care Carolyne
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
Sex is at the basis of Islam. Go back and look at the quotes from the elites cited by Fitzgerald in his essay a few days ago (Hume, de Toqueville, et al.). It is no coincidence that the Holy Prophet’s marketing campaign didn’t kick in until he started providing his early Companions with prepubescent sex slaves, when his unprovoked attacks on towns and oasis villages started yielding 9 yr old booty, the recruiting campaign skyrocketed. Says a lot about Arabians of the time, and based on what we hear and see in modern times, it says a lot about them now. It’s Bill Clintoneque, I tellya. Marc Richesque. Yet you turn on the TV and see news entertainers bending over backward to verbally genuflect to the inherent goodness of Islam.
Wellington says
Well, better late than never I guess but I still have to wonder what took this guy so long to figure out what is quite simple to figure out and that is that Muslim ethics make a mockery of any decent ethics. Guess it’s just more evidence that there’s no understanding at least 20% of mankind (and this is a conservative percentage). I know, per the film The Caine Mutiny, that everyone’s a screwball someway but c’mon. Willfully being an adult Muslim (I’ll let children off the hook here since they can’t really truly reason for themselves) goes way beyond mere screwball status and is dispositive of a mind that has let its built-in crap detector become horribly rusty, to the point of non-workability.
Islam is so wrong and in so many ways that the wonder of it is that it ever caught on in the first place. But it did, big time, and perhaps herein lies a commentary on the human species as a whole, made all the more sobering when reflecting upon those who have adhered by the millions to other malignant belief systems, for instance Nazism, the Japanese contention that they were the only divine race of human beings, and Marxism.
PRCS says
I wonder, too.
Beginning about 8:00 he says,
“So this hadith informs us that the Muslim soldiers had a problem. They wanted to have sex with the female captives, but these women were already married and they had husbands who were still living. So, Muhammad then claims to receive a revelation from Allah that instructs the Muslim men to wait for a period of time to ensure that the female captives are not pregnant. And then, after that period, these Muslim men are allowed to go and have sex with these married women.
How, during all of those years, through all those readings of Qur’an and ahadith, and with the knowledge of spoken and written Arabic did he not connect the “claims to receive a revelation” dots to the many other such obvious, self serving claims.?
I’m glad he’s being honest, now. But WTF prevented him from admitting the truth to himself then?
eduardo odraude says
He took a long time because he had a genuine spiritual need, openness, and trusted that Islam was good. In short, he was an innocent abroad. His naivete was a beautiful thing, since in the end it was not selective, but remained open to all the evidence, as shown by this video.
I suspect he is a person of rather noble character. Not only was he on a spiritual quest, but he is not afraid to follow that where it leads him — this is someone who knows very well the Islamic punishment for apostasy, but speaks publicly anyway. In that sense, I think he puts many anonymous Islam-critics to shame. This is someone willing to speak up for the truth apparently even if that could mean his own death. How rare and fine is that? How much is that to be treasured, admired, and respected?
His Arabic sounds excellent, and I wonder when and how he learned it.
Wellington says
No rebuke meant, eduardo, but you rate this guy higher than I do. Much higher.
Mark Swan says
Yes I find it impossible to relate to anyone who can read, and has read the Quran,
can say they are a Muslim—impossible.
So now He is much better—Ok
gravenimage says
And it’s not just that Ismaa’eel Abu Adam remained a Muslim for so long–he was an active apologist for the vile creed for many years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cCNTSdM4mc&list=PL1N2d5QLU9oLU7_Vuwqn8i4L5Njhlh1L7
But as always, better late than never…
Champ says
Some of the most courageous people out there are those whom leave islam and go public with their decision.
And then there are the cowards whom threaten to murder those that do–or worse yet, actually commit this heinous crime in the name of their barbaric god and religion.
Champ says
And there’s only one reason why I consider people like this “courageous” because mohammedans can be very *DANGEROUS* to those that leave islam.
If a person leaves Christianity then they are NOT courageous–not for the same reason that an ex-muslim is courageous, since other Christians will never threaten them with violence or carry out said threat. Also, there is nothing in the Bible instructing Christians to commit such evil …
Unlike the unholy quran which instructs muslims to murder those that leave islam.
islam is *wholly* evil!
underbed cat says
Weird full bread, reddish, starts out with prayer….do I believe this dude…..nope he would be foolish to video…..he can’t defend this doctrine…I think I would wait before I got to close to this dude. Hope he is not from a big city…this could be just taking off identifier for whatever purpose not sure…but I am not completely convinced….hardly.
gravenimage says
Muslim leaves Islam because of moral teachings of Qur’an and Muhammad
……………………
Kudos to Ismaa’eel Abu Adam for having the decency to leave Islam over the horrifying lack of decent morality in Islam.
The thing is that he actually has decent ethical standards, and wrestled with how to reconcile Islam with his own good ethics.
Unfortunately, most pious Muslims would just jettison their own remaining decency–if any–and decide that what is *really* moral is Muslims raping and enslaving Infidels.
gravenimage says
What Gabriel Al Romaani does in his ‘refutation’ video is just rephrase things–implying that since Allah enjoins righteousness and forbids rape, that, ergo, forcing married Infidel women to have sex is not rape, and is indeed righteous. He also spouts apologia for Muslim slavery.
He then vaguely backpedals, implying that such Hadith might be unreliable. Then he posits that they might indeed be accurate, but that someone like Ismaa’eel Abu Adam simply fails to understand their supposedly arcane meaning, and should consult Islamic scholars. Then he shifts gears again, returning close to his original point–that it is only “colonizer” Westerners who believe that things like rape are actually wrong.
Oddly, he here implies that morals are fluid, and change over time. The irony here is that Islam believes that the appalling morals of the Qur’an and Hadith and actions of the baleful “Prophet”–including rape–are good for all time, including today.
It also does not include the fact that Jesus–the Christian Jesus, not the repellent Muslim “Isa”–never enslaved, raped, or murdered anyone, and never taught his followers to do so, either, even though he lived in a brutal era.
He then uses the story of Abraham and Isaac (or Ishmael, in Islam) to deal with the issue of doubt. There is a problem with this, though–once Abraham proved his loyalty to God, an angel stopped him from actually sacrificing his child.
But when has “Allah” *ever* been shown preventing the rape of Infidel women? When, in fact, have pious Muslims ever been shown to balk at raping Infidel women? This comparison would only work if most Muslims were conflicted over raping women, which they clearly *are not*.
He then tells the story of “Musa” and Khidr, which marks the basis of “Honor Killing”. Again, most Muslims do *not* balk at “Honor Killing”, but are only too happy to murder their disobedient wives and daughters.
Finally, note that he considers rape a minor matter–hey, you agree with 95% of Islam, why should you have a moral crisis over something like God telling you to capture, enslave, and rape women?
The best line is when he says that he is not asking that he believe in something like the Trinity–just that Muslims should rape innocent women! That pretty much sums up the morality of Islam right there.
He then tells doubters to “have patience”–it might take time to realize that rape is a good thing. After all, some early Muslims doubted that waging violent Jihad was a good thing, as well–and how wrong they were!
He finally characterizes fretting about rape as “weird stuff” compared to the benefit of Ismaa’eel Abu Adam’s apologia for Islam over the years.
He’s offering an invitation for this apostate to return to Islam–I suppose the death threats will only come later if Ismaa’eel Abu Adam declines.
By the way, this video was filmed while Gabriel Al Romaani was driving around in his car at high speeds–so you have the comfort of knowing that in addition to all the other dangers of pious Muslims wanting to kill us, that they might just run us over while distracted by Da’wa…
eduardo odraude says
Thanks for the account of Romaani’s response. Interesting.
Mirren10 says
”By the way, this video was filmed while Gabriel Al Romaani was driving around in his car at high speeds–so you have the comfort of knowing that in addition to all the other dangers of pious Muslims wanting to kill us, that they might just run us over while distracted by Da’wa … ”
🙂 Nice one, graven !
gravenimage says
Thanks, Eduardo and Mirren.
R Cole says
This hadith provides the context for the Qur’anic verse (4:24):
The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Sura 4:24) “And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess.” (Abu Dawud 2150, also Muslim 3433)
The way I look at this verse is that Muhammad’s men had a higher moral standard than he did. And I think it goes to the very heart of the problems within the Islamic world today. There is our common human morality and there are these Islamic teachings. And the two are in conflict.
What moderate Muslims do is to attribute Islam to their own moral standard. As with everyone – it is natural to say, ‘well of course you would not do that!’ But then along comes the fundamentalists and they say, ‘no, according to the book or to Muhammad’s teaching or example – this is actually what you are supposed to be doing.’
And it is here that the fundamentalist have the religious authority.
::
So that any solution – is not in Islam – it is in humanity.
::
Islamic Jihad on Reason
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news – besides this guy’s terrible Arabic accent – [sound like that Home Alone movie and the dad was speaking French – you don’t have to understand it to know it sounds awful.] – but many Muslims already know that rape is allowed in Islam.
There was one Islamic preacher – soon years ago – who said if you want to bring non-Muslims into Islam – DON’T TELL THEM EVERYTHING AT FIRST!!
Muhammad had relations with at least one dead woman, as well – and in the last few years there have been a couple of edicts issued along these lines – as I believe in Morocco and Egypt. People outside of the religion would say – this is flat out wrong – or at least, if Muhammad did engage in such activities then we should not do it today. But for Muslims all of Muhammad’s actions were god’s will – even when he changed his mind – that was god’s will too. [And then in Islam there are more penalties for disagreeing with Muhammad than disagreeing with Allah – naturally!]
Where Christianity has the Jesus as the truth, life and the way – broadly speaking – the trouble for Christians not being Christ-like enough is not being giving enough, and not having enough faith and so on. For Muslims – not being Islamic enough or not following Muhammad’s example – takes on a whole other element.
Everybody knows you can’t marry a 6 year old or even a 9 year old – but Muhammad did what most people would not have imagined doing – and because of this – it has to be accepted in Islam.
It goes to the former Pope’s Regensburg address – which was widely condemned as an attack on Islam – but it went to logic and reason in religion.
gravenimage says
Yes–even a bunch of warlike dark ages desert barbarians had better moral instincts than the foul “Prophet”.
William says
After watching the two video responses, I can only conclude Mohammedans practice some kind of twisted logic, if they are capable of any logical thinking. Mohammedans are order-followers, plain and simple, and Mohammedanism is a dangerous and deadly cult.
Tony46 says
The best anti-islam material is found in the Quran itself.
..
eduardo odraude says
and the canonical hadith, and the earliest biographies of Muhammad.
Mark Swan says
Good Ones Tony46 and eduardo odraude—made me laugh
mortimer says
The Koran and hadiths counsel war crimes and civil crimes as long as it is for the advance of Islamic supremacism.
Mark Swan says
As long as some Imam or Mullah gives the nod—You can murder—and what You will.
gravenimage says
Here is the second Muslim “refutation” video–the maker does not give a name.
He says that he has not studied slavery in Islam, but dismisses out of hand that this proves that Islam is not from Allah. One assumes, rightly, that he does not consider the taking and rape of sex slaves to be ungodly. Given that this is Islam, this should not surprise.
For him, like so many pious Muslims, there is no morality at all–just what is Halal and what is Haram–i.e., what is demanded and what is forbidden. Whether raping captives is ethical is for him simply not an issue at all.
He says that even if it is rape–and he is not sure that is the correct word–that this does not prove that Islam is wrong.
By Islamic standards, he is, of course, correct–Islam can demand that pious Muslims slaughter Infidels, keep sex slaves, rape nine-year-old children, and stone rape victims to death, and all of these horrors are considered perfectly Islamic.
As he sees it, if Ismaa’eel Abu Adam had fully submitted to Islam, that he would have had no problems at all gleefully committing these atrocities.
It is, indeed, impossible to argue with this “logic”–because, of course, it is not based on logic or morality at all–just on the primacy of Islam, under any and all circumstances.
This is, in fact, the crux of the danger we face from Islam, and why it cannot be reformed, because no appeals to reason or ethics can ever hold any power.
One interesting point: this Mohammedan also uses the Abraham story, but appears to believe that Abraham actually *did* sacrifice his son, and that that Allah was pleased with the bloodshed. Very telling…
If something is decreed in Islam, that is all that counts.
He, not surprisingly, quotes Qur’an 2:216, that “perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not”. This refers to waging violent Jihad, but can as easily refer to raping captive women.
Probably my favorite thing is where he implies that raping women might actually be seen as taking care of them–since men are superior to women (one assumes he means *Muslim* men, of course).
He then re-emphasizes that raping women may not be such a bad thing, after all–the only important thing is submission to Islam, no matter how evil it may be. It is only our “interpretation” that this evil is actually wrong.
He then questions whether Ismaa’eel Abu Adam had ever been a real Muslim at all, since his obedience to this evil was not blind enough…
Baucent says
Some people on here need to stay on topic. This post is not about Putin.
As for the video, a useful addition to he critique of Islam that others like Robert have been leading. This guy is obviously a man with integrity and couldn’t just gloss over the offensive bits in the Koran. He’s realized the unthinkable to a muslim, that Mohammed has made the whole thing up.
gravenimage says
You may be interested in knowing that “Christianblood” has eagerly welcomed the specter of Muslims conquering and enslaving the West, Surely *that* is of concern here.
And yes–the story above is certainly salient.
Baucent says
Maybe you need to start a “Christianbloodwatch” but leave it off here. Some people actually want to read comments related to the post. Boy is a moderator needed around here.
gravenimage says
I do consider addressing other poster’s urging our conquest by Islam to be on-topic. If you do not, Baucent, you need not comment on it.
Jay Boo says
With respect gravenimage
Baucent does bring up a valid point.
It is a shame to see Robert Spencer and other writers make such good articles and to post videos exposing Islam’s vulnerabilities only to have a long diversion away from the topic.
Yes, it makes sense to criticize Christianblood when he makes generalized criticisms of “the West”, but there must be a better way to handle it then get into these long drawn out discussions about Putin or the History of communism which could go on forever.
Usually CB tosses the bait about the West then reels commenters in with specifics. Unfortunately CB cannot be dismissed as easily as sham or Razilli because despite his unfair off-topic generalizations about the West some of his specifics (off-topic) about politicians are true.
Maybe a moderator could allow a few initial off-topic comments but MOVE long winded off-topic follow-up comments to linkable area. I am not sure if that is easily done.
Another option is to the commenters to voluntarily meet on an older post. I call this the — “Let’s take this fight outside”. Others could be invited to join into the off topic battle.
Mark Swan says
This site is more than discussing Jihad—IT IS About free speech—There have been
pages in the hundreds and so much of it pure pointless nonsense—we are not going to run-out of space or time—I try to read every topic by skim and scan and seldom miss a beat that way—often points are missed because of bias—no one has a reason to moderate not even Mr. Spencer unless the commenter is out of the bounds of civil decency or dangerous to leave out there for our enemies to use—this CB character is a real supplier of material that is very similar to Islam in points and perspective—it is a concoction of mischievous propaganda, lies and truth—typical Communist Russian nonsense, that if You are in a good mood—heck why not—but the truth is His intent, which is made plain in what he intends for its affect—persistent yes—abating the enemies of the free world yes—motive malicious—I read CB comments with a grain of caution.
Most of Us would not comment on this site if it were not the most open and decent site available on a critical subject at a critical time—don’t like a comment say so, or keep reading and post as often as you feel appropriate—moderate—I’ll take free speech over game show anytime any place.
Commenting is a personal and public combo that is wonderful to enjoy—I can safely say off topic by a skilled commenter is not that at all but insightful to those who can grasp it—this part of the process of conversation the open way and far preferable to canned, guarded, stifled BS.
I don’t think I have commented on one of CB’s post—But I have eyes, and a mind, and I form opinions just the same based on what I read and what is obvious and subtlety deceptive as well.
Happy Posting To All
Sincerely
Mark Swan
I rattled this out quickly so please excuse and typo or error in point even.
Bridget Ames says
See he is identifying with the infidel which many Muslims are psychologically unable to do. But in the end I am glad he left it and could have empathy for the victims.
Dum Spiro says
Please continue to pray for Ismaa’eel Abu Adam. He has seen the light and is beginning to discover more and more of the truth. He made another video too — on Muhammad’s Jewish wife: https://youtu.be/bSV-0HdiFEM
Who knows? He may even end up working for Jihad Watch someday…
— Spero
ECAW says
Well, that was all bloody obvious wasn’t it? He tells us no more than a very superficial study of the Koran and hadiths on the subject would reveal, and probably has revealed to most of us here without 16 years effort.
Two points stand out. Firstly he inserts the word “marry” between the enslavement of infidel women and their rape. This is utterly dishonest as far as I can see (and would be grateful for correction). I don’t think the famous phrase “those whom your right hands possess” refers to wives at all but to sex slaves.
Secondly he says that no sane person in their right mind could defend this as moral and yet that is precisely what he did for 16 years. Does he then admit that he was insane and not in his right mind? No he does not. He is one very confused bunny, even now when he is struggling out of the depraved insanity that is Islam.
How can anyone with an ounce of intelligence or decency submit to the monster that is Allah? I can only imagine it has something to do with the M part of S&M which finds willing buyers in non-religious areas, witness the “50 Shades of Grey” book which enjoyed such success recently.
Mirren10 says
Excellent points, ECAW.
ECAW says
Mirren10, Although I wasn’t particularly impressed by this guy’s insights I thought our mutual friend could benefit from them:
https://craigconsidinetcd.com/2016/07/03/believe-it-or-not-prophet-muhammad-promoted-womens-rights/
Go on, you know you want to!
gravenimage says
Very true.
Marty says
A very brave man.
How can any Westerner convert to this vile heathen ideology ?
Apart from Christianity & Judaism the West has no problems with converts to
Buddhism & Hinduism.
In the UK one of our senior judges, Mr Christmas Humphries became famous
as a leading Buddhist
sham says
DOES ISLAM PROMOTE RAPE WITH NON MUSLIM WOMEN?
SLAVE COME TO THE MUSLIM STATE BY TH WAR WITH THEM …………PUBLIC NON MUSLIM NOT THE SLAVE OF MUSLIMS………..
DOES ISLAM SUPPORT RAPE EVEN WITH SLAVE GIRL?
Slave rape prohibited:
Malik :: Book 36 : Hadith 36.16.14
Malik :: Book 41 : Hadith 41.2.13
Slave prostitution prohibited:
24:33. and let those who find not the financial means for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah enriches them of His Bounty. And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), give them such writing, if you know that they are good and trustworthy. And give them something yourselves out of the wealth of Allah which He has bestowed upon you. And force not your maids to prostitution, if they desire chastity, in order that you may make a gain in the (perishable) goods of this worldly life. But if anyone compels them (to prostitution), then after such compulsion, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to those women, i.e. He will forgive them because they have been forced to do this evil action unwillingly).
Bukhari :: Book 7 :: Volume 63 :: Hadith 260
Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 82 :: Hadith 822,823
Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 46 :: Hadith 731
Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 36 :: Hadith 483
Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 34 :: Hadith 440 ,436,439
Muslim :: Book 43 : Hadith 7180, 7181
Sex with slave act of ignorance:
Muslim :: Book 40 : Hadith 6856
……Qatada said: Abu Abdullah, would this happen? Thereupon he said: Yes. By Allah, I found this in the days of ignorance that a person grazed the goat of a tribe and did not find anyone but their slave-girl (and he did not spare her) but committed adultery with her.
Muslim :: Book 20 : Hadith 4554
It his been narrated through a different chain of transmitters, on the authority of Hudhaifa b. al-Yaman who said: Messenger of Allah, no doubt, we had an evil time (i. e. the days of Jahiliyya or ignorance) and God brought us a good time (i. e. Islamic period) through which we are now living Will there be a bad time after this good time? He (the Holy Prophet) said: Yes. I said: Will there be a good time after this bad time? He said: Yes. I said: Will there be a bad time after good time? He said: Yes.
Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 83 :: Hadith 21
Narrated Ibn ‘Abbas:
The Prophet said, “The most hated persons to Allah are three: (1) A person who deviates from the right conduct, i.e., an evil doer, in the Haram (sanctuaries of Mecca and Medina); (2) a person who seeks that the traditions of the Pre-lslamic Period of Ignorance, should remain in Islam (3) and a person who seeks to shed somebody’s blood without any right.”
Slave illegal sexual intercourse /adultery prohibited:/blame prohibited even sinner /
4:24,70:30
Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 34 :: Hadith 435, 436, 362 ,363
Muslim :: Book 17 : Hadith 4219,4221, 4224
Malik :: Book 41 : Hadith 41.2.13
Adultery with slave girl prohibited, stone death punishment:
Muslim :: Book 17 : Hadith 4201
Muslim :: Book 37 : Hadith 6676
Muslim :: Book 40 : Hadith 6856
Malik :: Book 41 : Hadith 41.2.13
Slave sex prohibited:
Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 93 :: Hadith 506
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
That during the battle with Bani Al-Mustaliq they (Muslims) captured some females and intended to have sexual relation with them without impregnating them. So they asked the Prophet about coitus interrupt us. The Prophet said, “It is better that you should not do it, for Allah has written whom He is going to create till the Day of Resurrection.” Qaza’a said, “I heard Abu Sa’id saying that the Prophet said, ‘No soul is ordained to be created but Allah will create it.”
Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 79 :: Hadith 706
Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 77 :: Hadith 600
Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 46 :: Hadith 718
Malik :: Book 29 : Hadith 29.32.95
Muslim :: Book 17 : Hadith 4201
Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 34 :: Hadith 432
Forced sex with slave prohibited:
Bukhari:6949
Muslim :: Book 43 : Hadith 7181
Dawud :: Book 12 : Hadith 2304
Malik :: Book 54 : Hadith 54.16.42
Malik :: Book 41 : Hadith 41.3.15
ISLAM PROMOTE
Muslim :: Book 1 : Hadith 285
Narrated Abu Musa Al-Ash’ari:
Allah’s Apostle said, “If a person teaches his slave girl good manners properly, educates her properly, and then manumits and marries her, he will get a double reward. And if a man believes in Jesus and then believes in me, he will get a double reward. And if a slave fears his Lord (i.e. Allah) and obeys his masters, he too will get a double reward.”
duh_swani says
Shabeer…is that you?
John Marst says
How do you even know all this? Very impressive. This is Robert Spencer or David Wood level stuff.
gravenimage says
sham does not know any of this stuff himself. He regularly cuts-and-pastes from Islamic Da’wa sites. He has posted all of this apologia for evil here before.
gravenimage says
More spam from sham:
DOES ISLAM PROMOTE RAPE WITH NON MUSLIM WOMEN?
SLAVE COME TO THE MUSLIM STATE BY TH WAR WITH THEM
……………………………….
First note that the vile sham is affirming that Muslims can enslave Infidels. Appalling, but perfectly Halal.
More:
DOES ISLAM SUPPORT RAPE EVEN WITH SLAVE GIRL?
Slave rape prohibited:
Malik :: Book 36 : Hadith 36.16.14
Malik :: Book 41 : Hadith 41.2.13
……………………………….
Please note that this prohibits Muslims raping the slaves of *other Muslims*. If they do so, they simply owe the slave’s owner. The rights of the victim herself are not at issue.
A Muslim can rape his own slaves with impunity.
More:
Slave prostitution prohibited
……………………………….
Again, this prohibits a Muslim from pimping out his slaves, not from raping them himself.
More:
24:33. and let those who find not the financial means for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah enriches them of His Bounty…
……………………………….
Allah’s “bounty” includes sex slaves. This is merely warning Muslims not to have extra-marital sex *except* with Infidel rape victims.
More:
Sex with slave act of ignorance:
Muslim :: Book 40 : Hadith 6856
……Qatada said: Abu Abdullah, would this happen? Thereupon he said: Yes. By Allah, I found this in the days of ignorance that a person grazed the goat of a tribe and did not find anyone but their slave-girl (and he did not spare her) but committed adultery with her.
……………………………….
Again, this is condemning a Muslim from having sex with *another Muslim’s* slave. The offense is to the Muslim owner, not to the poor woman.
More:
Adultery with slave girl prohibited, stone death punishment:
Muslim :: Book 17 : Hadith 4201
Muslim :: Book 37 : Hadith 6676
Muslim :: Book 40 : Hadith 6856
Malik :: Book 41 : Hadith 41.2.13
……………………………….
Again, this is having sex with another Muslim’s slave. Muslims having sex with their own slaves is perfectly Halal.
More:
Slave sex prohibited:
Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 93 :: Hadith 506
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
That during the battle with Bani Al-Mustaliq they (Muslims) captured some females and intended to have sexual relation with them without impregnating them. So they asked the Prophet about coitus interrupt us. The Prophet said, “It is better that you should not do it, for Allah has written whom He is going to create till the Day of Resurrection.” Qaza’a said, “I heard Abu Sa’id saying that the Prophet said, ‘No soul is ordained to be created but Allah will create it.”
……………………………….
sham–or whoever he cribbed this from–is deliberately misrepresenting this Hadith. The vile “Prophet” is not telling his thuggish followers not to rape the poor women they have captured; he is chiding them about using withdrawal as a method to avoid impregnating their rape victims.
sham has posted all of this crap here many times before–and has had it refuted many times. But he continues to post it, either out of some sort of compulsion, or simply because he hopes those debunking this bs might miss one of his posts, and that he can therefore snow some less knowledgeable Infidels.
The fact is that there are few things more amply documented than the Islamic allowance of the rape of Infidels.
Dustin Koellhoffer says
This is why the Koran is not written in chronological order and why Moslems object to it being translated. This is why it is important to learn the truth about Islam before you surrender your soul.
GOP has been world class f***-ups defeating Democrats.
GIVE TRUMP A CHANCE!
https://
liberalsbackwardsthink
.com/2016/07/01/gop-has-been-world-class-f-ups-defeating-democrats-give-trump-a-chance/
If you lock your door you’re a xenophobe – Democrats open your home to thieves
https://
liberalsbackwardsthink.
com/2016/06/28/if-you-lock-your-door-youre-a-xenophobe-democrats-open-your-home-to-thieves/
Fauxcahontas and Hillary’s havoc and lies
http://
ipatriot.
com/fauxcahontas-hillarys-havoc-lies/
(I have to write it like this because FB is censoring conservative posts)
Neville J. Angove says
I see the same basic mistakes every time there is a discussion of Islam.
The Hadith is not the Koran, or the words of Muhammed. It is interpretations of what forceful theologians argue what Muhammed meant, and seem full of quotes made up. It is worse than the various Christian rulings that were generated by Christian theocrats over the past two centuries.
The Koran is said to be a transcription of what Muhammed said. That is total crap. There us no provenance for any of it, and any half-arsed textual analysis shows that it had many authors.
If any Muslim disagrees with an interpretation of what Muhammed is supposed to have said, the Koran itself says countless times that it is up to the individual to choose what he thinks Allah wants. You do not have to leave a religion if you do not agree with conflicting interpretations of questionable wordings.
Dacritic says
The Quran is not supposed to be what Muhammad said, but what Allah said. And since like you mentioned there are so many interpretations, Muslims want to know which one is the real one. And they go back to Muhammad of course. And how do they do that? By going to the Hadith, to see how Muhammad lived out the commands of Allah in the Quran.
Muhammad’s interpretation is therefore the truest interpretation and the only one that matters, since he was the best Muslim ever, wasn’t he? Please see also Quran 4:65.
gravenimage says
Neville J. Angove wrote:
…the Koran itself says countless times that it is up to the individual to choose what he thinks Allah wants. You do not have to leave a religion if you do not agree with conflicting interpretations of questionable wordings.
…………………
This is utter rot. The idea that the Qur’an is open to endless interpretation is *not* a part of Islamic doctrine at all.
The Qur’an as well as the Hadith is full of references to Muslims being allowed to rape Infidel women: Qur’an 23:1-6, Qur’an 70:22-30, Qur’an 4:24, and Qur’an 33:50 are just a few.
Mirren10 says
Neville J. Angove says:
”I see the same basic mistakes every time there is a discussion of Islam.
The Hadith is not the Koran, or the words of Muhammed. It is interpretations of what forceful theologians argue what Muhammed meant, and seem full of quotes made up. It is worse than the various Christian rulings that were generated by Christian theocrats over the past two centuries.”
You know, Neville old son, this is the sort of nonsense that is going to get us murdered. Really, it’s not what either you or I think about interpretations, or quotes, or rulings, or what mohammed said; its what jihadists think. It’s about what people like the putative ‘Caliph’ think. Its about. what the people who strap on the suicide vests, the ones who stab with knives, the ones who use cars as murder weapons think.
Your deadly, and suicidal mistake, is to assume that they think in the same way you do. They don’t.
Angemon says
Neville J. Angove posted:
“The Hadith is not the Koran, or the words of Muhammed. It is interpretations of what forceful theologians argue what Muhammed meant, and seem full of quotes made up.”
Made up as the quran or hadith are, the hadith are supposed to be the recording of the actions and words of muhammad. You’re mixing up fatwas, which are legal opinions based on islamic law, with ahadith.
“The Koran is said to be a transcription of what Muhammed said. That is total crap.”
You got that right – the idea that the quran is said to be a transcription of what muhammad said is total crap since the quran claims to be the timeless, immutable word of allah as it was revealed to muhammad by Djibril.
“If any Muslim disagrees with an interpretation of what Muhammed is supposed to have said, the Koran itself says countless times that it is up to the individual to choose what he thinks Allah wants.”
Can you point to one of these alleged countless instances?
joey says
It boggles my mind why an educated person such as yourself would convert to Islam to begin with. Anyways, better late than ever. Congratulations for leaving that dark murderous cult.
citycat says
Maybe it takes an educated person to join Islam and then leave it.
If he is for real he is brave, because is he not due the award of a fatwa? Or two?
Ric says
This is a man of exceptional courage; as well, one of moral integrity. Now, if only some of our politicos, those suffering from the apologist syndrome, would listen to this man’s seeing and deeming Islam for what it is, a depraved bloodletting-cult, not the religion of peace.
Mirren10 says
Not really relevant, but irritating. Why do converts always insist on Arabic accents when referring to mohammed and islam ? Hack, cough, choke … 🙂
Champ says
Ahaha, Mirren10!! 😀 I had the *same* thought!!
gravenimage says
Yes–I’ve noticed this, as well. There is a great Anti-Jihad animation that has been posted here at Jihad Watch before–I’m not able to fine it right now–that exaggerates “Islamic” pronunciation of “Allah” and “Muhammed” to hilarious effect.
Angemon says
gravenimage posted:
“There is a great Anti-Jihad animation that has been posted here at Jihad Watch before–I’m not able to fine it right now–that exaggerates “Islamic” pronunciation of “Allah” and “Muhammed” to hilarious effect.”
youtube.com/watch?v=eiaTHfoyJow
youtube.com/watch?v=PMUNnCBJkGg
youtube.com/watch?v=hvQeLwlTf4k
youtube.com/watch?v=DNzC0dPQ41I
youtube.com/watch?v=lir2XSR2ilA
youtube.com/watch?v=UShPYjH34wI
Mirren10 says
Angemon, every single one of those youtube videos are ”sorry, this video is unavailable.”
I wonder why …
Angemon says
That’s odd, I can see all of them. Does it say they’re unavailable in your country?
Mirren10 says
No, just ”sorry, this video is unavailable.”
Angemon says
Weird. I can’t rule out it being a problem in your end, but it’s hard to pinpoint without a probably long, technical discussion. Try using another browser -nor the Youtube app if you’re using a mobile device – to access them. Or search youtube – whether in a browser or in the YT app – for the videos “True Origins of the Qur’an” and “Qur’an Gangbang episode ” (there’s 5 episodes of those). They’re uploaded by youtube user SyeTenAtheist but there are probably copies of them mirrored by other users.
Angemon says
Oh, yeah, I cut part of the url to avoid having 6 YT videos loading on the page and slowing things down for people running older hardware (like my 2009 laptop 😀 ).
Here’s the full url for the first one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiaTHfoyJow
See if it works from there.
Mirren10 says
Thanks, Angemon, that was *hilarious* ! Gone into my favourites now. 🙂
underbed cat says
I left a comment in response to the muslim,who couldn’t after 15 years of devotion, could not affirm the verses. I voiced my doubts of his sincerity. I felt some regret on not encouraging,, however it is his choice not mine. However I guess, I find it hard to understand that he is after 15 years of reading he did not question some of the commands,nor see some inconsistencies with the terms tolerance, peacefulness,( nor understand the alternate meaning) just reading this Koran. It didn’t take me long to hear about some of the laws of Islam as not tolerant, nor peacefu( as world domination was intrinsic)l and it was as a teenager, that I found it strange and wanted to avoid the brutal behavior.,However the language of the book, and the social pressure and darwah, repetitive connective nature of his religion I now think he may have been under the some misdirection, where I was told the facts.
seb says
Why are you ( muslims ) cover muhammed up by calling him a most wonderful prophet on Earth, when all his life is full of sin. ( even Al-quran says Muhammed is a sinner. Surah18:110 even many secret of his life in haddith.
Muhammed
The man with demons possessed.( Bukhari 8;13:89.
The man with innocent blood in his neck.
The man that says He as go astray (wrong part.) an still lead muslims to be ask for right part. Surah1:6
The man that says He was nt sure of own salvation.surah46:9
Muhammes says he and all muslims will burn to skeleton in hell.( sahin Bukhari 1:12:277.
Muhammed terrorist against God’s people. Surah.33:26
Muhammed perform no miracle to confirm his prophethood( Q.6:37, 17:59, 28:48:, 29:50-51.
The Lord of muhammed is satan( sahin Bukhari 6, 60:475
Please don’t fail to accept Jesus as ur Lord and Saviour before you die> that was only way to eternal life.
Many muslims as come to Light of Christ and they find it that Truely JESUS IS SAVIOUR.
Don’t die in ignorant !
Dum Spiro says
Here is Ismaa’eel Abu Adam’s latest video in which he graciously forgives the many people now making death threats to him:
http://youtu.be/B7X5agrqqlU
He is now in a position to teach (so please pray for his safety) those who don’t know any better. He can make more videos to that end…
— Spero