On Relevant Radio’s Drew Mariani Show on August 10, 2016, Msgr. Stuart Swetland, President of Donnelly College in Kansas City, Kansas, and I engaged in a lively discussion over whether Islam is a religion of peace or of violence.
Notice how, right at the end of the show when I had no opportunity to reply, Msgr. Swetland essentially reads me out of the Catholic Church for not believing that Islam is a religion of peace, and claims, falsely, that this was not only the view of Pope Francis, but of Pope Benedict XVI and Pope John Paul II. He claims that these popes’ statements on Islam being peaceful are authoritative and guided by the Holy Spirit.
In reality, while the Catholic Church claims to be guided by the Holy Spirit in defining what is and isn’t the Christian Faith, it does not claim some special power or authority to define the nature or teaching of other religions as well. Thus I doubt that Msgr. Swetland is correct in suggesting that papal statements on Islam being peaceful are authoritative for Catholics; what is interesting, however, is that he was suggesting that there is no place in the Church for people with a realistic view of Islam.
If the view that Islam is a religion of peace wins out altogether in the Catholic Church, and it certainly prevails at the highest levels in the Church today, and if it is imposed somehow upon the faithful, then the Church will have enshrined falsehood as official policy. And it is getting very, very close to doing just that.
billybob says
Welcome to Donnelly College —
Built upon the pillars of faith, wisdom and solidarity, Donnelly College embodies the Benedictine values of truth, excellence, community, diversity, inclusivity, justice and service. With liberal arts and sciences rooted in the Catholic intellectual tradition, Donnelly College provides education that works and values that last.
http://www.donnelly.edu/about/president.cfm
JOHN SPIELMAN says
it seems that Donnelly college should put the word SARC after the above paragraph of LIES!
mortimer says
The popes of RCC do not define what Islam is. Al Azhar University defines what Islam is for 90% of Muslims.
John C. Barile says
Just so.
Sibila says
RCC doesn’t have to define Islam. Islam defines itself. Islam professes death to WHOLE non-Islamic World and the subjugation of the people of the Book, in another word – our slavery.
Msgr. Stuart Swetland doesn’t tell the truth. He distorts the facts of constant and ongoing Islamic satanic State torture and crucifixion of the Other – throughout the entire history, on the entire world stage. By ignoring the historia est magistra vitae – Msgr spits on Polish king Sobietsky’s 9/11 defeat of the Ottomans in the battle for the Catholic Europe. Also Msgr disgraces friar Luka Ibrisimovic’s defeat of the Turks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luka_Ibri%C5%A1imovi%C4%87 etc etc
RCC doesn’t profess the conversion of Satan. Some sweet talking evil Catholics do. There is no dialog with Death. The mission of the CC is not to convert anyone but to spread the Good News, to witness the Truth and to prepare the Way. Only Satan converts.
Muslims need help to be freed from the chains of Islamic Dark. Msgr and the alikes with the pope Frances in the lead – are not helping the Truth.
jihad3tracker says
Are there any volunteers who want to provide Monsignor Swetland with some GENTLY + POLITELY DELIVERED REALITY ABOUT ISLAM ? We Jihad Watchers have moved from wishful thinking and multicultural fantasy to hard reality — and can help him arrive at clear thinking, even if such a wake up is hard to take.
There should be a contact path at the Donnelly website which you can use for email. To minimize the number of profane insulting Muslim trolls contacting him (who pretend to be counter-jihad respondents about Robert’s post here), please do this:
IN THAT EMAIL, GIVE A BIT OF BACKGROUND ON HOW YOU GOT INFORMED REGARDING ISLAM AND A SHORT BIO OF YOUR SELF. And, sincerely ask Monsignor Swetland to respond — perhaps even beginning a dialogue, as well as mentioning excellent truth resources on the Internet.
Patricia Koenig says
I doubt whether Msgr. Stuart Swetland wants to know the truth about how violent Islam is. As a college president, he probably wants to be politically correct..above all else. There is no excuse for him to be mis-representing Catholic Church teaching on Islam. Msgr. Swetland, could have and should have, quoted St. Thomas Aquainas or St. john Chrysostom, Catholic experts on Islam. both wrote that Islam is a carnal violent religion. RE:Vatican II was NOT a dogmatic council and therefore was NOT infallible. Vatican II statements on Islam are incorrect and false.
UNCLE VLADDI says
YVETTE MOZOL once commented, here:
http://www.therebel.media/is_islam_compatible_with_western_culture_42_of_muslims_say_no
Last Sunday, my church bulletin also contained an insert titled “The Dignity Of Muslims, Vatican II and Islam. I would appreciate your comments. According to the author of this article, Biagio Mazza states that in the 1960’s, the Second Vatican council were aware of longstanding tensions & quarrels between practitioners of Islam & Christianity which had led to many distortions of both religions & the Council decided to address the relationship of these two. Two separate documents followed, “Lumen Gentium & Nostra Aetate”. Lumen Gentium affirms that Christians, Muslims & Jews all worship the same God & that the Muslims acknowledge the Creator & that they adore the one merciful God who will judge humanity on the last day. The Nostra document states Muslims venerate Jesus as a prophet & honor his virgin mother & even at times devoutly invoke. It goes on to say that the church has a high regard for Muslims & that they worship God, Creator of heaven & earth & that we have much in common with Islam, both in belief & in practice regarding promotion of peace, social justice & moral values.
Well, blow me down……..What did I miss?…….Or is it that the participants at the Vatican Council all had their heads stuck in the sand when they wrote these 2 docs.
Christianblood says
Many thanks to Robert Spencer for schooling the politically-correct Catholic bishop on the facts about islam. Thanks also for mentioning the suffering of Orthodox Christians under islam for centuries, a fact that most Catholic leaders don’t even know or appreciate! Your opponent who wrongly believes that islam is the religion of peace and that jihad is an internal spiritual struggle is totally and stupidly ignorant of the facts about true nature of islam.
Ten Mile says
How true. The learned clergy is not speaking the truth when he avers that the Pope’s words on Islam are normative and definitely authentic church teaching. Like most academics he wants to be politically correct, which is not the same as truthfully correct.
UNCLE VLADDI says
Re: “Your opponent who wrongly believes that islam is the religion of peace and that jihad is an internal spiritual struggle is totally and stupidly ignorant of the facts about true nature of islam.”
I think the obvious problem here is the nature of religious “belief” itself.
It starts with the presumption that a lie (stating a ‘belief’ in something one knows cannot be proven) is somehow acceptable as long as the end (secure group membership and potential future rewards for the self) justifies the means (sacrificing innocent others to one’s lies).
ALL ‘religious people’ are lying frauds, so it should be no surprise to see ‘christians’ lying to support islam, too.
John C. Barile says
I have those days myself, when I look in the mirror and see another wandering bag of biochemicals brought into temporary lukewarm sensate existence by the mindless interaction of meaningless observed patterns of natural forces, doomed to oblivion . . . and then I go back to bed and try to fall asleep again.
Very funny.
Western Canadian says
You’re no uncle of mine, moron.
Christianblood says
According to the debate above, Donnely College is a House of Darkness!
Western Canadian says
Yes, a college very much poised by the stealth jihad waged so successfully by the kGB, fellow travelers, paid agents, useful idiots and idiots in general, all of which emanated from russia. Feel free to decide for yourself, which of the above groups best describes the idiot more accurately known as unchristiancrap.
Rufolino says
If this is “official Catholicism” it’s frightening.
Isabellathecrusader says
This is not official Catholicism. It is post Vatican II B.S. that is designed to weaken the faith of its members and destroy the Church from the inside out. It was the design of Vladimir Lenin who knew the Catholic Church was his biggest obstacle to enslaving the entire world under Communism. You can read about it in Bella Dodd’s excellent book, School of Darkness. There is a free copy online, you just have to google it.
Msgr. Swetland will pay for his obtuse views on the subject, for his sake, sooner rather than later, I hope. his views will eventually end up getting his parishioners killed, just like the French priest who gave that land near his church to the Muslims so they could build a mosque and they beheaded him anyway.
St. Michael Defend Us says
This is to La Punta- there is a punctuation mark of a “period” after the words “I hope” and Isabella has merely omitted the capital “H” on “His”. You are misreading what Isabella actually wrote, and giving it a very opposite meaning.
John C. Barile says
Thank you, Mike, for pointing that out. I was confused, too, not having seen the period, and for lack of a capital “H.” I find Lanya’s condescension deeply irritating. So, she doesn’t assume that a Catholic, to the degree that he’s Catholic, is Christian. Yes, and pious Muslims see Catholic and Orthodox Christian veneration of icons and relics to be idolatry, too. A more informed Protestant observer on this site dubbed us iconodules–I don’t disagree with him–rather than iconolaters.
John C. Barile says
Oh yes, that’s why I’m in everlasting communion with my deceased child.
John C. Barile says
–Because she lives in Christ.
Western Canadian says
At least she is not a paid russian troll.
Ex-muslim says
As an Ex-muslim, I see this Catholic leader as a very dangerous enemy of ex-muslims and other Christians who live in muslim lands. He is far more concerned for his “feel-good-nonsensical-dialogue-with-muslims” than for the 100.000 Christians, most of whom Catholics who are being murdered by muslims every year! He is an evil, ignorant traitor and it would be the greatest pleasure to see this dangerous stupid moron and others like him fall into the hands of ISIS and be tortured by them! He is not only my enemy, the enemy of suffering Christians in the islamic world but he is the ENEMY OF CHRIST! Shame to all of them!
Angemon says
Ex-muslim posted:
“As an Ex-muslim”
One can not be an ex-muslim without being a muslim at any given time during their lifetime.
“it would be the greatest pleasure to see this dangerous stupid moron and others like him fall into the hands of ISIS and be tortured by them!”
Add another mark to “times that Ex-muslim stated he wanted to see Westerners killed by jihadis”…
“He is not only my enemy”
Uh, is that supposed to have any sort of special meaning? I mean, you already stated that Westerners and Americans are your mortal enemies – singling out individuals from a group and ascribing them the same characteristics that got them into that group to begin with seems like a nonsensical waste of time. “Ants are my mortal enemies. Look at that one ant – it is my mortal enemy. Because it is an ant”. See what I mean?
“but he is the ENEMY OF CHRIST!”
Then how about you let Christ worry about it? How does that go again? Oh, yeah – “Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord.”
Stop trying to pretend to be an ex-muslim and a Christian – you suck equally bad at both.
Westman says
Is Islam violent? Well, is the Pope Catholic?
Uhhh..wait…let me think for a moment…
Ahem says
I just sent Msgr. Swetland a 25 page table outlining the abrogated koranic verses and the substituting verses and recommended that if he ever gets around to reading the koran it should be done in conjunction with the table of abrogations.
I doubt that he will ever attempt to read either document.
Champ says
Bravo, Ahem! ..at least you tried 🙂
Alexius Comnenus says
Your comments make me apoplectic!! You mean this college represent the statements of many real popes and theologians on what islam is. Colleges like the above one is a disgrace to the Universal Church.
And you should get back to your history books and re study what islam did to the world during its 1400 of existence.
These false Catholics are the real enemy of the Universal Church.
umbra says
Yeah. The Roman Catholic Church has been completely infiltrated. These are also some of the garbage being taught in many western catholic seminaries.
Matthew says
This site demonstrates orthodoxy remains informed on matters of Islam. Great resouce.
http://facingislam.blogspot.com/2016/08/muslims-screaming-allahu-akbar-through.html?m=1
Fr. Tryphon in WA has great articles today on Ancient Faith on same topic.
Perhaps Mr. Spencer would be better served in Orthodox Church. Catholics appears to be spiritually detached from the early church.
Pretty certain St. Paul could spot a weed from the wheat.
Thomas Hulting says
The next thing you know, Pope Frank will be lobbying for the State to fully fund the International GLBT Soccer League, complete with $500 Million stadiums in every major city! And soon, I suspect, he’ll get behind the International Organ Harvesting Coalition to Reduce Poverty! Heaven forbid that he would START a Bible Study!
Remember, this is the SAME Pope Frank who uttered, “Who am I to judge,” regarding Sodomites. And, he’s the SAME Pope Frank who characterized Mahmoud Abbas as an “ANGEL of peace!” This is the SAME Pope Frank who tells YOU to discard capitalism (the ONLY system in the history of mankind that has resulted in shared prosperity), yet he presides over an organization that has MORE amassed wealth than MOST countries, while he continues to tell YOU to sacrifice MORE! Yeah, that’s it! YOU sacrifice MORE, pray to relics (the bones of dead people and the plastic statues on your dashboard), pray to Mary MORE than you pray to ANY person of the Trinity, and embrace Liberation Theology, wherein if you have something that I think I need more than you do, I am within my “rights” to take it (STEAL it) from you!
You go, Pope Frank!
Me-You-I-We-Us-Them says
100%. I can’t believe how deep the devil has entrenched himself within the pope’s mind. I wonder who’s the voice that speaks to his heart.
Alexius Comnenus says
as a catholic prelate I cannot agree more with you.
umbra says
Better do something to block this bishop of rome’s DIY theology. He has a crippling effect on the Catholic faith.
Christianblood says
Thomas Hulting
You are right. The Pope is bad and clueless but it is not only the Pope, the whole Catholic system is decadent liberalized and spiritually degenerate. As this debater in the video pointed out, Catholic doctrine teaches that the demonic, Anti-Christ and blood-thirsty god of islam (allah) is the same God of the Bible that Christians worship!
Mary says
Now hold on.. your overstepping it here. Catholic doctrine DOES NOT teach that. Vatican II council does in a letter called Nostra Atate which mind you states this. However it is not catholic doctrine but the idea of the delegates at the council to instantiate this. Mind you nostra atate means in this age or in this time in latin. Meaning the church applied to today. I do not, and many other traditional catholics, do not agree with this. Islam is evil. Period. And pope francis who i and many other traditional catholics understand could not be the true pope in alignment with the so called resignation of benedict XVI. Pope francis is a fraud. That does give anyone justification to denounce catholic doctrine. It has been as it was. And vatican II is a separation from this.
Get it right.
Western Canadian says
And again we are visited by the paid russian troll, an habitual liar who bases his hatred of the west on the indoctrination he received from his russian overlords… All the while trying to deny his russian overlords role in a stealth jihad against the west, to attack and weaken our churches, media, entertainment, educational systems, etc. Pathetic lying fraud.
MTMLA says
You forgot to say, a Pope who kisses the feet of muslim men, showing a false humility. It looked to me more like a homosexual act…I cant stand the man….
Mary says
Nor can i. He is a fraud. A fool. And the dumbest pope in the history of stupid idiots. Ive read some bad popes. But bad popes who acted bad for themselves and never for the church. This one is trying to change doctrine!!! Hes a loser. And may Gods judgement be ever on him.
billybob says
We know where this is going when the priest opens with “Proper reading of the Quran shows is opposed to every form of violence”. What a whopper! I’m still listening to it. It only goes downhill from there.
Nimrod says
I’d really like to know what the proper reading of “kill them wherever you find them” is that discourages all violence.
This “proper reading” doesn’t seem to be reflected in any of the tafsir or fatwas, or anything else from the ulema.
gravenimage says
The claim that Pope Benedict uncritically considers Islam a religion of peace is demonstrably false.
Worse, the idea that you are not a true Catholic if you dare admit that Islam is violent and that Muslims are murdering us in its name is *grotesque*.
In fact, the church supported resistance to Jihad depredations for centuries in the past–and everyone in the West owes them a debt of gratitude for having done so.
Luke says
Very true. We’d all be Muslims now if they hadn’t.
RonW says
But not in _the_ century past, nor this one.
underbed cat says
It was frightening to hear Msgr. Swetland so convinced that outreach would solve terrorism…and then to end with comments that he considered Islam and almost heard the call. Robert. of course is an expert on the doctrine, history and definitions of both Catholic and Islamic teachings and could inform the Msgr. Swetland had he been open to some facts. So Gravenimage your comment, “The claim that Pope Benedict uncritically considers Islam a religion of peace is demonstrably false.”…..”In fact, the church supported resistance to Jihad depredations for centuries in the past-and everyone in the West owes them a debt of gratitude for having done so.”… Excellent.
Robert you were brilliant and recall of knowledge is astounding.
Kay says
I agree. And we hear that kind of ignorant false hope way too often in church.
I’m so glad other Catholics got a chance to hear Robert Spencer.
And so glad the caller from Lebanon got through.
Mark Swan says
“There are such “social values” today in Europe, America, and Australia only because during those thousand years the Christians of Europe possessed the warlike power to do what the Christians of Asia and Africa had failed to do – that is, to beat back the Moslem invader.”
– Theodore “Teddy” Roosevelt
26th President of the United States
Taken from WordPress.com
John Stefan says
It’s a great blessing for us to have him to lead us all in the truth concerning Islam. This means that it would be good were we to pray to God the Holy Trinity to protect him from all harm and danger. Of course, include Pamela Geller and David Wood and James and all of them.
Salome says
Never mind, Robert. I am sure that the Assyrians or the Copts would be just delighted to welcome you among them.
Christianblood says
Salome posted
(..Never mind, Robert. I am sure that the Assyrians or the Copts would be just delighted to welcome you among them..)
Well-said, Salome!
Western Canadian says
And again we are visited by the paid russian troll, an habitual liar who bases his hatred of the west on the indoctrination he received from his russian overlords… All the while trying to deny his russian overlords role in a stealth jihad against the west, to attack and weaken our churches, media, entertainment, educational systems, etc. Pathetic lying fraud.
Mubarak says
Islam is a religion of peace if everybody would let it rest in peace.
Kay says
RIP
Christianblood says
Islam should burn in Hell!
Western Canadian says
If the russians could manage to be as successful in a stealth jihad against islam, as they have been against the west,that would likely happen.
Mary says
Bahahahha good one
Alexius Comnenus says
that’s a bullcrap.
Tommy says
I still go to Mass despite this lame Pope.
Judy says
Absolutely. We respect the office, even when we have a less than stellar person in the office. The daily living out of our Faith changes not one iota under Pope Francis. We hold fast to the Triune God, the sacraments, and the actual doctrine of the Church. Those papal interviews and exhortations are not doctrine.
Frank in Newfoundland says
Precisely! Well said!
Just because there have been bad presidents doesn’t mean Americans should reject the U.S. Constitution.
That a weak and fallible human being fails to live up to the ideal doesn’t invalidate the ideal.
billybob says
“Notice how, right at the end of the show when I had no opportunity to reply, Msgr. Swetland essentially reads me out of the Catholic Church for not believing that Islam is a religion of peace…”
You think Robert just got excommunicated?
I think he did a great job – getting in a lot of key points that made the audience sit up and listen. Certainly more than one caller came on and was overwhelmingly convinced by Robert’s persuasive arguments.
Christianblood says
I suggest that the ‘msgr’ should watch this film:
Western Canadian says
Gee, did you notice how much devout muslims act just like devout communists???
Mubarak says
An Abrahamic faith is defunct, incomplete and heretical, if it is not subsumed in the faith in the triune God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob for all generations after them.
Islam is a monotheistic idolatry and heresy.
gravenimage says
What rot. Christians have never claimed that those born before Christ are Christian, nor that they could have been. Nor are most Christians banging on about idolatry and heresy. Really, if this nasty apologist for Muslim savagery wants to pose as a Christian, he will have to try harder.
Dennis says
The triune god of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? What triune god? Where did you get that nonsense? There was no triune god until the church invented it in its councils. Believe what you want but don’t include the Hoyse of Israel as worshipping thus!
Dennis says
Sorry about the typographical error. It should read “house of Israel” not “Hoyse.” My iPad might be secretly radicalized!
Mark Swan says
You are right and understood Dennis
Mubarak says
“And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.”
Abraham the father of all who believe, Isaac prefiguring the sacrificial Son of God, Jacob, who became Israel through the work of the spirit. – How can anybody miss it? The God of OT is a triune God.
If ever there is a biblical message that offends Muslims and transport them to the point of transcendental rage, this is it. Don’t abstain from preaching it and forget about silly, childish caricatures
Touga says
It is pathetic and heartwrenching that the Catholic Church that should know better, is part of this conspiracy of deception about Islam being a religion of peace, in spite of the flood of the blood of Christians and other humanity that has been offered to the insatiable bloodthirsty god of Islam for 1,400 years!..
TheOldOligarch says
What a fool, Robert eviscerated him.
Mark Swan says
Mr. Spencer told the truth, and as we can see Msgr. Stuart Swetland, is not comfortable with the truth.
livingengine says
I would rather listen to a Christian like Raymond Ibrahim than the Monsignor.
http://www.meforum.org/6186/egypt-muslim-christian-reconciliation-meetings
While the attack is in progress, the besieged Christians do the only thing they can: frantically call the local police and/or state security.
Based on private conversations with those involved, formal complaints from the Coptic Orthodox Church of Egypt, and objective media reporting, here’s what happens practically every single time:
Police and state security take their time to get to the scene, allowing the mob ample time to riot with impunity. It is not uncommon for authorities to arrive two or three hours after a mob attack commences—even when they are closely stationed.
For example, after 3,000 Muslims rose in violence against the Christians of a village near Alexandria in 2012, it took the army an hour to arrive—even though it was stationed a mere mile away: “This happens every time,” said a Christian eyewitness. “They wait outside the village until the Muslims have had enough violence, then they appear” (Crucified Again, p. 175).
After the uprising has fizzled out, authorities arrive. Instead of looking for and arresting the culprits or mob ringleaders—or, as often is the case, the local imam who incites the Muslim mob against the “uppity infidels” who need to be reminded of “their place”—authorities gather the leaders of the Christian and Muslim communities together in what are termed “reconciliation meetings.” During these meetings, Christians are asked to make further concessions to angry Muslims.
Authorities tell Christian leaders things like, “Yes, we understand the situation and your innocence, but the only way to create calm in the village is for X [the offending Christian and extended family, all of whom may have been beat] to leave the village—just for now, until things calm down.” Or, “Yes, we understand you need a church, but as you can see, the situation is volatile right now, so, for the time being, maybe you can walk to the church in the next town six miles away—you know, until things die down.”
Christian victims are regularly placed into a room with their persecutors for a ‘reconciliation meeting.’
Needless to say, things never “die down” or “return to normal.” Christians who agree to banishment are seldom allowed reentry and churches rarely resume being built, for the mob will rise up again.
To be sure, when the authorities arrive to the scene of the crime, beaten and robbed Christians regularly reject the idea of being placed into a room with their persecutors in a mock reconciliation meeting that has proven time and again only to add insult to injury.
But when they rebuff the authorities’ offer and demand their rights as citizens against the culprits, the authorities smile and say “okay.” Then they go through the village making arrests—except that most of those whom they arrest are Christian youths. Then they tell the Christian leaders, “Well, we’ve made the arrests. But, just as you say so-and-so [Muslim] was involved, there are even more witnesses [Muslims] who insist your own [Christian] youths were the ones who began the violence. So, we can either arrest and prosecute them, or you can rethink our offer about having a reconciliation meeting.”
Under the circumstances, dejected Christians generally agree to the further mockery. What alternative do they have? They know if they don’t their youth will certainly go to prison and be tortured.
Christianblood says
livingengine posted
(..I would rather listen to a Christian like Raymond Ibrahim than the Monsignor..)
Right. I would rather listen to Christians like Raymond Ibrahim and Robert Spencer
than Ten Thousand Clueless Popes!
Alexius Comnenus says
As a Catholic I agree with you.
Western Canadian says
And again we are visited by the paid russian troll, an habitual liar who bases his hatred of the west on the indoctrination he received from his russian overlords… All the while trying to deny his russian overlords role in a stealth jihad against the west, to attack and weaken our churches, media, entertainment, educational systems, etc. Pathetic lying fraud.
Alexius Comnenus says
Msgr. Stuart Swetland is a moron and his false and anti Catholic and antihuman statements that islam is a religion of peace it does not correspond to the history of islam.
He is like pope Frances and some others bishops from Italy and Germany who asked for donations to build a next door mosque. These clergies are the devils in the Church. These people are working at confusing the mind of many good Catholics.
What is the situation of the Orthodox and Coptic Churches in the East? Does he knows it? Yes. But he hides in order to help islam.
Islam was not and is not and it will never be a ‘religion’ of peace. Its an idiotic ideological system meant to bring destruction of the all other cultures and mostly of the true religion of Christianity.
I am ashamed to call my self Christian when I heard the insanity promoted by this wolf clothed in lamb fur.
Shame on him. He should go to Egypt or to Saudi to see what islam ‘as a religion of peace’ will do to him. What a disgrace for the real Catholic Church!
Bezelel says
Acts 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
I’m not Catholic but, I should think the Pope”s Bible has this passage in it.
David says
Mr Swetland, God bless him, really doesn’t know what he’s talking about when speaking of Islam or jihad, that is obvious. I’m glad he’s had Muslim friends and that they were nice, “but”.
Most Germans were nice people, most Japanese were nice etc But we still had the Second World War didn’t we. Shetland is so like many politicians. Maybe his type are convincing the politicians. A lot of polianna.
Kay says
Someone is convincing many somebodies. I hear that argument everywhere.
johnj says
the Mongols during the time of Gengiz were nice as well. What has happened to people’s ability to think?
dragaozao says
Who needs this Church? With this Pope it became an exclusively political organization. When I hear Pope Francis speak (and all the priests that agree with him) I always think on Barack Obama. The same speech, the same political correctness, the sames lies. I am a catholic but this is not my Pope.
Judy says
Popes come, and popes go. Occasionally we get a lemon.
Champ says
LOL!! 😀
Pong says
No Judy,
There will not be an “occasional lemon” any more. More then 10 years ago on JW I predicted alliance between islam and catholic church. I was crucified. Yet, it was for anyone to see, if they wanted. I am not a religious scholar (though my cv is quite impressive), but I didn’t have the idol of catholic church obstruct my view and suppress common sense.
Today it is clear that I was correct. If you expect any change in direction taken by the catholic church leaders towards islam, you will be bitterly dissapointed.
Christianblood says
dragaozao posted
(..When I hear Pope Francis speak (and all the priests that agree with him) I always think on Barack Obama. The same speech, the same political correctness, the sames lies..)
You are absolutely right!
Alexius Comnenus says
Bravo! I have always thought the same way.
Western Canadian says
And again we are visited by the paid russian troll, an habitual liar who bases his hatred of the west on the indoctrination he received from his russian overlords… All the while trying to deny his russian overlords role in a stealth jihad against the west, to attack and weaken our churches, media, entertainment, educational systems, etc. Pathetic lying fraud.
Pong says
That is a silly statement. Caholic church is not a democratic institution. You can’t choose Your pope. If you consider yourself a catholic, that means you are supporting this pope. I understand your wish to seat on two chairs (it is embarrassing to be a catholic these days), but it makes a silly picture.
AnneCrockett says
Yes, the fathers of Vatican II were absolutely uninformed about Islam. Further, Islam in the 60’s was in practice very far removed from its roots; it was not until the Iranian revolution that the moderninzing trend of the 20th century was reversed as western nations retreated from colonialism and Muslim nations drew inspiration from Khomeini.
Christianblood says
AnneCrockett posted
(..Yes, the fathers of Vatican II were absolutely uninformed about Islam..)
They were uninformed about islam then but it is even worse now because they are now misinformed about the true nature of islam. They think and preach that islam is the religion of peace!
Angemon says
Are they lying or are they simply misinformed? Please pick a story and stick with it.
Western Canadian says
And again we are visited by the paid russian troll, an habitual liar who bases his hatred of the west on the indoctrination he received from his russian overlords… All the while trying to deny his russian overlords role in a stealth jihad against the west, to attack and weaken our churches, media, entertainment, educational systems, etc. Pathetic lying fraud.
Jon Sobieski says
The msgr. at the end said he had considered becoming a muslim. Lost soul.
Christianblood says
Jon Sobieski
As most present day Catholic clergy are, this ‘msgr’ was another muslim apologist and an opponent of the true Christ!
Western Canadian says
Unchristiancrap again comes by, to dispense his usual load of drivel.
Keys says
He considered becoming a muslim. Wonder what changed his mind.
Jack Diamond says
Funny, Oriana Fallaci was given a private audience with Pope Benedict and continued a correspondence thereafter. She insisted, in regard to the conflict with Islam, that she and the Pope were in total agreement. This from the author of The Rage and the Pride. Fallaci even donated her archives to a pontifical university in Rome because of her admiration of Benedict, this “Christian atheist” as she called herself at the end. La Fallaci did not believe Islam was a religion of peace. Do you think Benedict believed Fallaci was “perverting a great religion”?
Swetland’s argument is he knows nice Muslims. Therefore, Islam can’t be like Robert Spencer describes (violent, intolerant, supremacist). So, bring on more nice Muslim immigrants. He doesn’t see most Muslims being violent, therefore he assumes jihad is understood as only an interior spiritual struggle, by most Muslims. The Lebanese Christian calling in is correct, but then he knows Muslims in the Middle East, not Kansas City or the U.S. military, Muslims in their element when they have the upper hand. He knows the real history of Islam (violent, intolerant, supremacist) and its true relationship toward Christians through the bitter experience of his people.
Swetland: “You’re letting the terrorists define Islam.”
Yes, since at least year 855 when independent reasoning was forbidden.
eduardo odraude says
As for the Swetland’s ignorant comments that jihad almost always meant “inner” jihad against one’s own vices:
Bernard Lewis, well-known historian of Islam and the Middle East, says that in the overwhelming majority of cases, “jihad” in Islam’s core texts means military jihad
He writes on page 72 of his book The Political Language of Islam, that
Lewis also writes, on page 31 of his book The Crisis of Islam, that
Yohananw says
Dean Esmay thinks that the pope is conciliatory because of the threat of terror and power balance… see
http://www.deanesmay.com/2016/08/08/what-happens-if-the-pope-condemns-islam-or-islamic-terrorism/
On the other hand, as Robert Spencer and friends have well stated – this has apologetic conciliatory behavior has to stop sometime…
Idania says
It is upsetting to see and hear the ignorance of the Catholic Church.
First, just the Reading of the Qur’an tells any one that Islam is a supremacist, primitive and cruel system of ideas. Second, the savage behavior of Muslim under ISIS and in Europe, clearly shows that their action are born from their beliefs, and finally their treatment of Christians and the cruelty toward them is clear example of the “peacefulness” of Islam.
Why the Church, and European countries insist on tolerating their behavior and do not take action against them is the biggest mistery of the modern world.
Christianblood says
Idania posted
(..Why the Church, and European countries insist on tolerating their behavior and do not take action against them is the biggest mistery of the modern world..)
You are right, Idania! it is indeed a mystery! Both the Church in the West as well as the Western political establishment are under the direct control of the Anti-Christ spirit!
Angemon says
Christianblood posted:
“Both the Church in the West as well as the Western political establishment are under the direct control of the Anti-Christ spirit!”
First they lied, then they were misinformed, now they’re being controlled by the anti-Christ. They can’t all be right – pick one and stick with it.
Western Canadian says
And again we are visited by the paid russian troll, an habitual liar who bases his hatred of the west on the indoctrination he received from his russian overlords… All the while trying to deny his russian overlords role in a stealth jihad against the west, to attack and weaken our churches, media, entertainment, educational systems, etc. Pathetic lying fraud. Who does he think put them under the control of the anti-Christ?
MTMLA says
I’m sure if you follow the money trail, you’ll get the answer.
Sam says
Robert how can you deal with these idiots day in day out? You stay so calm and collected in front these idiots with no common sense.
You are my hero.
One note is that there can be no interpretation of Koran. Why don’t they read the Koran? These idiots…..
gravenimage says
His patience is incredible.
Champ says
I completely agree, Sam and Graven!
eduardo odraude says
Yes, he must have a lot of patience. On the other hand, if you have the mountains of facts at your fingertips that Robert has, I’ll bet it’s easier to be patient. Impatience is often a result of being convinced one is accurate, but not having the memory and knowledge sufficient to hold one’s own in argument or to convince others.
Wellington says
To the detriment not only of the Catholic Church but to all of the West, the Catholic Church is presently in the process of losing its collective mind (rather like Western liberalism has over the last half century). Not a good development, to put it mildly, because the Catholic Church has traditionally been a bulwark against the pernicious rubbish which is Islam.
No longer. Damn shame. The present Pope, Bishop McManus of Worcester, MA, and this underwhelming person, Monsignor Swetland, serve as a trinity of foolishness (and many other such “Catholic trinities” could be named), demonstrating my overall point here.
And here’s another point, an even larger point: Vatican II has proven to be a disaster. One of proper sense and knowledge by now knows this or should know it. John XXIII should have never called for an ecumenical conference in the first place. After all, why try to fix what is not broken? Those here at JW who know what Vatican II really “accomplished,” whether Catholic, Protestant or not even Christian at all, will forthwith comprehend what I mean here.
David says
Robert,
Great job. I was listening to Relevant Radio outside of Boston, stuck in traffic last night when your “debate” came on. The Msgr shamefully tried a number of baseless arguments against what you said, but you held on. I especially liked the male caller from Lebanon who had lived under Islamic terror. I would have liked to ask the Msgr two simple questions: 1. Was Mohammad a False Prophet -bent on hatred and violence against Jews and Christians, a third “Abraham” religion full of half truths, perhaps setup by Satan himself? 2. What is the significance of 1683?
I don’t think he could have answered either question in any meaningful way. The first is yes, the second is 9/11 Vienna. It’s OK to be ignorant, it’s quite another to pursue “willful” ignorance, and it’s something else to force blindness on others.
The Great White Sharks are back on Cape Cod well over two hundred this year, following a seal population which after four centuries have made a comeback in the thousands. This hasn’t happened since the time of the Pilgrims, Plymouth colony 1640. Militant Islam is back as well, from 1683. Ignorance is of no value. One doesn’t swim with seals, and one doesn’t accept the lies of Islam.
Thank you for what you do.
Ed says
Msgr Swetland talked about how Christians have lived with Muslims in the Middle East for centuries. What he did not mention is that Christians are not allowed to hold legal positions of authority over Muslims. Egypt is ten percent Coptic, but there are no judges, government hospital directors, or university presidents who are Copts. On the other hand, most pharmacies, jewelry stores, etc., are owned by them. They can only become financially successful in the private sector, not in arenas where they would exercise legal authority over Muslims.
MTMLA says
Egypt was 100% Christian until the muslim invasion in the 7th century who slaughtered many of its citizens , forced conversions or kept a few as dhimmies, second class citizens in their own country, stripped of their rights and power. The Monsignor is an ignorant fool.Maybe he is receiving $$$ to spread lies about islam.
Christianblood says
MTMLA posted
(..Egypt was 100% Christian until the muslim invasion in the 7th century who slaughtered many of its citizens..)
That is right! Almost all of ME countries and North Africa were the heartlands of Christianity until the bloody sword of islam came on the 7th century! Most people in the West and most of the Catholic/Protestant clergy don’t know this historical fact.
Western Canadian says
Yeah, and if islam hadn’t come along, russia would no doubt have done the same as islam did, anyway…..
abad says
The very word Catholic (katholikismos) is Greek for “universal doctrine” and it seems to me that Francis and company wants to be a part of making Islam the “new” Universal Religion(TM).
But be aware this is very different from Christianity which is not meant to be a “universal doctrine.” Constantine is the one responsible for attempting to make Christianity a “universal doctrine.”
DOM says
Mr. Robert Spencer is a true hero to western freedom and democracy!
I am in your corner Robert and thank God there is someone like you to tell the free world the TRUTH
about this so called religion Islam!!
I am a practicing Christian Catholic and have strong faith! I am embarrassed of our Pope and his misleading views on Islam!
Msgr.Swetland is also an embarrassment as well. Their statements are out right lies!
My Christian faith is not for SALE OR NEGOIATION! This is a slap in the faith to both Christian men and woman how died for their Christian faith. I will fight for Christianity and will never give in to such a violent bizzar religion as Islam
Please Robert keep up the great work,
My our Lord Jesus Christ Bless you!
Dom
BringBackTheCrusades says
Dom,
Stay strong in the faith. These times are dark in deed. Thanks to Robert and the host for shining light on the utter corruption of the hierarchy and it’s lemming’s. Never has such a statement about Islam being a religion of peace ever been so easily provably false.
Yet, the Monsignor, to his credit, had the courage to defend such straw men. Unlike, many of the ivory tower wonks who are too afraid to be publicly eviscerated.
I welcome counterexamples shredding his claim that, “for centuries Muslims have peacefully coexisted with Christians until these bad actors such ISIS came on to the scene”
Sam says
Stuart Swetland is a great stupid enabler of Islam. I am sick of these enablers who have no common sense. How can this guy be a Christian?
Christianblood says
Sam posted
(..Stuart Swetland is a great stupid enabler of Islam. I am sick of these enablers who have no common sense. How can this guy be a Christian?..)
You are totally right! It is disgusting and outrageous to hear those lying enablers of islam!
Western Canadian says
It is disgusting and outrageous to hear the lying enablers of the stealth jihad against the West waged by russia, to come here and spout their lying drivel
JawsV says
“He claims that these popes’ statements on Islam being peaceful are authoritative and guided by the Holy Spirit.”
That is such utter BS. About Islam Swetland is a dodo brain.
Kay says
Svetland’s statements you name were
part bs and then only partly true.
ALL Christians can be guided by the Holy Spirit. God doesn’t check to see if you have an office in the church or what letters follow your name.
That was kind of a ridiculous shaming of Robert for having a different opinion, an attitude that is neither biblical nor Catholic.
Champ says
“About Islam Swetland is a dodo brain.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Indeed a dangerous dodo brain …
Gene says
Msgr. Swetland’s ignorance is unbelievable. Even when a caller whose family came from the middle east confirmed what Spencer had said, he simply brushed it off. Msgr. Swetland’s argument is nothing more than ‘I know some Muslims who are nice, therefore Islam is peaceful.” (Which is like saying Schindler was a Nazi who helped Jews, therefore Nazism likes Jews.) At one point I think he said something about Christianity teaching doing good to others, and then said “Islam must have something similar.” I don’t think Msgr. Swetland has studied Islam at all. He just wishes it was nice, and is will to ignore Islam teaching and 1400 years of history to justify his world view.
The odd thing is that at one spot Msgr. Swetland says that was should evangelize Muslim, but we need to tell them their religion is wonderful. Just why would anyone convert from such a wonderful religion if you can’t point out what is wrong in it?
Also, the announcer’s claim that tithing comes from warfare is untrue. Abraham paid tithes after a military victory, but doesn’t mean that it was restricted to warfare. All evidence indicates otherwise.
Finally, what are all those wonderful things that we share with Islam?
Steve Klein says
Gene, Msgr. Swetland thinks he knows Jesus. He hasn’t a clue who Jesus is. Any man who says Islamic savages are his brothers does not know Jesus.
Champ says
Drew stated that he has “two experts” on his show, but in fact there was only ONE expert discussing “Is Islam Violent?”, and that’s Robert Spencer. Clearly Msgr. Stuart Swetland is NOT an expert–on this particular subject, so I was surprised to hear Drew make this claim.
Steve Klein says
Mr. Spencer, did you hear Msgr. Stuart Swetland say all Muslims are “our brothers” without distinction? Even these savages who are beheading innocent non-Muslims, raping little non-Muslim girls, throwing gays off roofs, etc., are Msgr. Stuart Swetland’s brothers and you said you agreed with him. All Muslims are your brothers? Do you realize what you said? Do you really believe this, all Muslims (even Muslims who behave like animals) are your brothers?
John Stefan says
I think that what Robert Spencer meant was that all people of the world, almost 8 billion, are my fellow human beings, i.e. by way of creation. But, as far as God is concerned, His children and our brothers and sisters are those human beings that trust in His beloved Son to be their God and their Saviour from their sins. He who rejects Christ is not my spiritual brother.
vlparker says
What a fool Msgr. Swetland is. Vatican II says this. Pope Francis said that. Pope John Paul II said this. Blah, blah, blah. Is this fool capable of thinking for himself?
Champ says
True, vlparker …and Drew called him an “expert”, lol!! 😀
Brian Hockersmith says
It sounded to me Robert that the man you were debating is a lot closer to converting than he may himself realize.Great debate and thank you for always being on the side of truth when it comes to Islam. God bless you Mr. Spencer.
Steve Klein says
I am sorry Mr. Spencer, this is so evil what Msgr. Swetland is propagating. If this is Church doctrine, I would find another church before I was excommunicated.
Judy says
It is not Church doctrine. It is the new warm and fuzzy feel good personal opinions of certain individuals within the Church. But even they cannot change what the Church has always taught about the heresy of Islam.
Kay says
Convert Allam on accepting Islam http://www.catholic.org/news/hf/faith/story.php?id=50260
Keys says
Rev. Swetland,
Pick any majority Muslim country; go live there 2 years as Christian priest, then get back to us. Try Pakistan.
spac says
that is why Catholic church is least bothered about the abducted orthodox Bishops (Since 2013) …Because as per the church they are in safe hands (Religion of peace)
spac says
Holy Bible and Koran cannot be the true at the same time ..Please enlighten us which is true …
Spencer ,please refer Ali Sinai Book on Muhammad to Pope and the Higher ups of Catholic Church ..Let them read it at least once and repeat this folly .
Again Pope Benedict has a realistic view on Islam and he revealed it also …but faced with violent repercussions around the world and he lost his Papacy also
Champ says
Msgr. Stuart Swetland is committed to an *idea* about islam & muslims, but the truth about this ‘religion’ escapes him.
awake says
The debate was what it was. Ineffectual in the fact that the argument for Islam’s peaceful core is a losing position from the start.
As a practicing Catholic, I can assure you that many, if not most Catholics I know, do not subscribe to Msgr. Swetland’s position on Islam, nor the current official position of the Church as overseen by this current Pontiff.
Christ understood the reality of martyrdom, and lead by example, that would be required for His message to permeate the globe as the single most prominent message that the world has experienced to date.
Now established, I have my doubts that Christ would suggest a violent challenge to His Truth, be met with temerity and silence.
Christ was infallible, but man is not, and that goes for men elected by religious politicians, to political positions.
The Church is indeed in a bad way currently, but the Truth is still the Truth, as it will always be.
Lan Astaslem!
Guy Jones says
Mr. Spencer, you have an utterly thankless and unenviable job in repeatedly debating these naive/ignorant/intellectually dishonest theologians, multiculturalists and moral relativists.
I can only offer you my personal thanks for your courage in speaking truth to power and for your efforts in seeking to educate the masses regarding certain uncomfortable, but, nonetheless, valid facts and truths regarding the intrinsic nature, history and tenets of Islam. Your efforts are not in vain, regardless of how many obstinate fools you may encounter as part of your educational campaigns.
ploome says
Robert Spencer is the most amazing man-
I don;t know how he can do this, year after year
Special blessing for Robert
Guy Jones says
Let me add that, if I were President, I would swiftly appoint Robert Spencer, Raymond Ibrahim, Andrew McCarthy, Wafa Sultan and Ayaan Hirsi Ali to my National Security Council.
ploome says
regarding:
the Church will have enshrined falsehood as official policy. And it is getting very, very close to doing just that.
has been doing that for 2000 years
Rich says
Look, the Pope himself has said this about Islam:
1. “Authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence” [Evangelii Gaudium #253][November, 2013].
2. “Islam is a religion of peace, one which is compatible with respect for human rights and peaceful coexistence” [Religion News Service, December 23, 2014].
So the fact that some monsignor in the U.S. is also dreadfully ignorant of the true nature of Islam should no longer surprise us. In fact, it is the very rare Catholic priest today who gets it right on Islam. Sad but true. So, chin up, Robert. As you are fond of repeating: “They are blind men leading other blind men…”.
Robert is right. The good monsignor is wrong. Quite clear and obvious. Catholic stupid on Islam continues unabated. ‘Nuff said.
garegin says
Islam is like socialism. No war between nations, no peace between classes. It’s peaceful in a sense that it expects the world to be in perfect harmony, once the jihad/class struggle is completed. Until then it expects from its adherants a relentless drive to wipe out all non-sharia systems.
Remeber back in the days when commies when scolding the ussr for not being insane enough and making peace with capitalist countries?
ProudAmerican says
I know this is gonna offend some of you, but I still have the right to do that in the good old US of A!
Sorry, but ALL religions are a crock. I grew up in Christianity and the metaphysical mechanisms by which god letting some Romans kill his son has somehow saved anyone who accepts him into their hearts has always escaped me, call me silly I guess. ALL words in ALL religions are superstitious fairy tales created by people a long time ago who thought the earth was flat.
So – having a debate with one fool over the motivations of other fools is a useless endeavor. And hopefully future generations (if there are any) have been able to throw off these primitive superstitions and truly embrace logic. And hopefully they look back at us with compassion not scorn.
Having put that down. I do believe that there are vast differences between the Jesus cult and the Mo-Cult. I liken the Jesus cult to the flower children of the sixties. Just want to hang out in GG Park, sit on the grass and smoke grass and spread love. The Mo-Cult is more like the Manson family, with a crazy life long con artist spreading his psychosis through his brain-washed followers.
Champ says
Check this out…
Former Atheist converts to Christianity:
ProudAmerican says
Hey Chump,
Check this out!
John C. Barile says
I find Pat Condell to be witty and entertaining, even when folks like me are being skewered by him. Pat doesn’t like in-your-face Christian evangelism any more than I like gratuitous, combative, intolerant atheism.
Champ ✿ says
Pat doesn’t like in-your-face Christian evangelism any more than I like gratuitous, combative, intolerant atheism.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bravo, John!
Champ says
You wrote:
“…and truly embrace logic.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You really ought to consider hearing what J. Warner Wallace has to say, especially since he was a committed Atheist for most of his life; and like you, he chose to *embrace logic* as he studied the historic life of Christ.
And the first video was really an introduction to his journey, but this second video is a bit longer, but very thought provoking and logical–something I think you’ll appreciate:
ProudAmerican says
Chump – there’s no point in talking to people like you. There’s no harder thing to dispel than belief, although it can be based on total hogwash.
There’s absolutely no point in trying to reach you when you being with things like, “and like you, he chose to *embrace logic* as he studied the historic life of Christ.”
Seriously that makes me laugh ‘the historic life of Christ’ the ‘historic’ life of Christ was written by different men, the first of which some 40 years after his ‘supposed’ death.
Now think about that. Even in the modern age with all different means of recording ‘actual’ events, by the end of the week when filtered through the various chroniclers the ‘story’ of the event bears little resemblance to the ‘actual’ event.
Like I said, I grew up in Christianity – MY UNCLE is A PREACHER for Christ’s sake (ha) and sorry but there is no compelling evidence of the truth of any of it. Like I said, the hardest thing to take out of people is a belief, however unfounded in evidence and truth. It seems the human ego is just too fragile to accept the fact that you’ve been such a fool to believe in such nonsense.
Jay Boo says
If P. A. wants to be an Atheist, that is ok by me, but it is clear that ProudAmerican is 100 % AFRAID to even click on the video link. This insecurity of ProudAmerican’s atheist beliefs is obvious by the knee-jerk reflexive use of insults to begin his replies.
Jay Boo says
Which pronoun?
(His or her) replies
Mubarak says
Truth is trap, you can’t have it without it having you. You need to be true, if you want to embrace truth and truth you. Truth puts a premium on those who seek it.
Champ says
“Proud American” wrote:
Seriously that makes me laugh ‘the historic life of Christ’ the ‘historic’ life of Christ was written by different men, the first of which some 40 years after his ‘supposed’ death.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“PA” doesn’t even acknowledge that Jesus Christ existed, even though historic records prove otherwise, so he places himself within a very *small* minority of people who’ve arrived at this wrong conclusion; so dismissing Christ altogether is the easiest, and laziest, way to halt any discussion about Him.
Peopel like “PA” claim that, “Jesus never existed”, so end of discussion, and then Christians are labeled “fools” for KNOWING otherwise. Also, “PA” probably accepts outright that other historical figures DID exist since historical records offer evidence in writing–but when it comes to Jesus Christ, nope, He just didn’t exist.
Oh really …
And I don’t expect “PA” to read the following information from “Got Questions” because he’s too lazy to bother with the facts; but perhaps others will also find it informative and quite interesting as I have …
Question: “Did Jesus really exist? Is there any historical evidence of Jesus Christ?”
Answer: http://www.gotquestions.org/did-Jesus-exist.html
Excerpt:
“There is overwhelming evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ, both in secular and biblical history. Perhaps the greatest evidence that Jesus did exist is the fact that literally thousands of Christians in the first century A.D., including the twelve apostles, were willing to give their lives as martyrs for Jesus Christ. People will die for what they believe to be true, but no one will die for what they know to be a lie.”
Champ says
Hi Jay Boo, “PA” might be afraid, but it’s more abvious that he’s extremely lazy–oh, and angry, too.
Champ says
Jay Boo …obvious, not abvious 🙂
ProudAmerican says
Champ! and Jay Boo, I’d just like you to know I’m just playing, having a little fun. As is evident in your names. So if that’s immature, having a childlike wonder for words and ideas – guilty as charged.
Furthermore, although (I think) I’ve made it abundantly clear that I don’t believe in any religions, I would die for Christians. As stated repeatedly I grew up in Christianity, and people I love with all my heart are Christians. HOWEVER, After having been baptized at 12 yrs old, I made it clear in my teens that I didn’t believe and wouldn’t bow down to any organization that tried to force these beliefs on me. As you might imagine, that didn’t sit too well with my uncle, the pastor, the pastor who at one time had a congregation of over 1,000!
Again, you are perceptive, knee-jerk and anger are entirely accurate descriptions of my reaction to anyone whom I perceive as trying to manipulate me into accepting their religious views. Believe me, the manipulation and psychological tactics to bring me into the fold from my born again family members over many years has been strong.
So I hope you can appreciate my point of view. Again, I would die to defend Christians. And there is no hate towards Christians, or any religion for that matter, ACCEPT – THE ONLY RELIGION I HATE – PISSLAM!
Champ says
Again, you are perceptive, knee-jerk and anger are entirely accurate descriptions of my reaction to anyone whom I perceive as trying to manipulate me into accepting their religious views. Believe me, the manipulation and psychological tactics to bring me into the fold from my born again family members over many years has been strong.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thank you for writing and explaining your point of view, ProudAmerican.
Take care!
Kay says
You do have the right!
And we have the right to converse even when we disagree.
It’s a basic of civilization.
It’s how we learn, amongst other things.
ProudAmerican says
Nice try Jay Boob (oh look I did it again). Insecurity of my beliefs??? It shows your obvious insecurity of your beliefs to call me 100% afraid (you really made your point by putting in that 100% didn’t you 🙂 instead of trying to counter my argument with a logical response – because there is none.
Champ says
“Jay Boob”?
And I’m “Chump”?
Very immature …
And then “PA” wrote this:
“…instead of trying to counter my argument with a logical response”
This is *hilarious* coming from “PA”, since I do not find a “logical response” coming from him; instead he resorts to silly name calling and ad hominems. So, where is his “logical response”? Nowhere! “PA” only offers insults and belittling wisecracks.
ProudAmerican says
Chump & Boob, It is fun watching you get your panties in a bunch. Like I said I GREW UP IN CHRISTIANITY – MY UNCLE IS A PASTOR – I know all of the lame arguments and spins Christians try to use to manipulate and guilt people into their way of thinking. Been there, done that, done with that and I’m done with you fools.
Champ says
There’s certainly a score of things that are fun to watch, but imagining other people getting their “panties in a bunch” wouldn’t even be on my radar. To each his own, eh?
And is it me, or is “PA” projecting his own boxers being in a bunch? I mean he’s the one who’s getting exercised, not me. And pointing out his lack of maturity and logic in no way means what he imagines.
Oh well, I pity “PA”, and his poor Uncle most of all …he’s probably heard his ugly hateful rants more than he cares to count.
Tom says
Great Job Robert! Thank you for being so virtuous and respectful while so courageously and brilliantly teaching the truth. You were Excellent! I am a now retired NYC firefighter who responded to the Mass murder at the World Trade center on 9/11/01 and participated in the the recovery of loved ones remains in the months following. Since then I have been on a mission to learn about the horrific evil that inspired this and I am so grateful to have found your books and website. Keep up the good courageous work of educating the world! Thank you again! May God bless and protect you.
Kay says
Relevant Radio:
Amazing job, Robert Spencer! I’m so impressed with your unflappable demeanor as you give so much information and counter ridiculous but vociferous arguments. I hope a lot of people heard it.
Champ says
Msgr. Stuart Swetland …
allah is NOT the God of the Bible:
JayT says
This was quite disgusting and the first time I’ve seen a priest willingly speak lies. The priest knew what the arguments were and basically disseminated wherever he could. The first half the priest pounded on his chest so to speak about those he knew from the military and after were not violent Muslims therefore it was the proof. That’s a lot like saying we knew German families during the 1940’s that remained peaceful therefore all the Nazi’s were in fact not German in ethnicity or locale.
When that argument wasn’t going well, the priest then switched to the transitive property. Since none of the major figures in the Catholic organization considered Islam other than a peaceful religion then it must be so (psssst …. Oh, Swetland, did you ever learn that the Pope from the 10th century called upon the West for the Crusades in response to Jihad warfare in the holy land and Europe?). So by the same kind of logic, Swetland can say that because no higher Church authority ever discovered dinosaur bones in their backyard ,,, well then ,,, dinosaurs never existed and is simply a hundred year hoax played on the ignorant masses.
I wish Robert Spencer had asked Swetland if he had ever read the Quran from beginning to end and the Hadith. I bet the answer would be enlightening to say the least. “Well, no, I haven’t read it but I know someone in the Catholic organization that did read it.”
Also, I found Swetland’s presumed humbleness that one would expect a priest to have completely missing and he was arrogant and snide toward the very end. I think it bothered one of his 7 deadly sins … pride … when the callers were telling him he was wrong and Robert Spencer was correct.
Mike Stephens says
Thank you, Mr. Spencer for confronting falsehood and lies wherever and whenever you find it.
David A says
Robert, tremendous logic and knowledge.
I have a siggestion/question for you.
In the US various Islamic teachings are clearly seditious against the US and it’s constitutional protections of liberty.
Clearly these Catholic Clergymen are way out of their depth, but could not you and them both agree what Islamic teachings and jurisprudence would have to be rejected, and what “internal struggle” passages would have to be used and how they must be so used.
The idea is to create an Islamic viewpoint that does in fact do what these Catholic clergy WISH it did. Not easy but some exiled Imanns have actually done this, and they had to reject in whole cloth the Hadith.
Then, having reached a benign interpretation of Jihad that had no goal of
an external Caluphate, rejected second class status for non Muslims even within a Caliphate, and gave women equall power to men, both in the social world and between the sheets, etc… I suggest you challenge the Catholic Clergy to prove their assertion and find US Mosques which are willing to sign on to this, remove all contrary literature and teachings in word and verbal form.
Then, in the unlikely event that one Mosque is willing to publicaly do this, get one of the Islamic schools of law to agree with this.
BTW, I would accept that Mosque and their members if those conditions were met, just as I would reject Catholics as seditious against the US if they reverted back to trying to make cannon law, state law.
I sincerely hope you consider the value of calling these sincere but misguided clergy to prove their assertion.
David A says
BTW Robert, I think such a doctrine, such a radical interpretation could be done with extensive aid from the few Imams who actually desire this. ( The two I read about years ago had death fatwas issued against them)
Then I think some few US Mosques may willingly adopt this with encouragement and protection. However once started I can see millions of Muslims, particularly wpmen, embracing this.
Of course this would be greatly engaged with sticks for those that refused. In fact sharp attorneys could likely justify seizing the property and charging the lead members with numerous crimes against the state.
Good Mosques welcome, bad seditious Mosques closed.
Smart guy says
The Roman Catholic bishop of Prague was the first to call Rome the Beast of the Revelation Martin Luther also called Rome the Beast of the Revelation The Seventh Day call the Roman Catholic Church
the Beast of the Revelation. “Jesus said, Many will come on the basis of my name saying, “Did we not
prophecy in your name and perform many powerful work in your name, and expel demons in your name”
And yet I will confess i never knew you, get away from me you workers of lawlessness.” Taken from the
sermon on the mount. The 1st printed English Bibles were being smuggled in England in 1615.
The translator of that Bible Tyndale was burn to death at the stake in Holland by the Catholic Church.
To escape from the persecution of the church some Christians fled England on the Mayflower. They started a new country at 1st it was called “New England” If you are Catholic and love America then it is
time to get out of “Babylon the Great” There are 7 hills in Rome.
John C. Barile says
Those Christians–we know them as the Pilgrims–didn’t singularly start this great adventure called the United States anymore than those colonists did who preceded or followed later. And they didn’t leave tolerant, (and all-too-worldly, for them) Protestant Holland to escape Catholic persecution.
Pagan Rome was founded on seven hills, and the Capitoline Hill is the seat of the secular Republic of Italy today, but it’s not the only city built on seven hills–Byzantium was, as well, and today it’s the essentially Muslim city of Istanbul. Saint Peter’s and the Vatican are on the other side of the Tiber River, beyond the Ancient and Medieval city limits of Rome; they don’t rest on those seven hills. They rest on the reputed remains of Peter himself, buried near his place of martyrdom, the Circus [i.e., racetrack] of Nero.
John C. Barile says
Cecil Calvert–Lord Baltimore–and other Catholic colonists established Maryland as their refuge from persecution by the established Church of England, remember that. You seem to imply that, to be fully American, Catholics should leave the Catholic Church. I sense a bit of latent nativist bigotry there. Not very smart.
John C. Barile says
God bless the Seventh Day Adventists.
Ali Bey says
The Catholic Church is guided by the Holy Spirit but Msgr. Stuart is guided by the Holy Imbecility, the Holy Hypocrisy and the Holy Cowardice.
Infidel lives matter says
Msgr. Stuart Swetland: “Any group that’s authentically trying to worship the one God, and of course islam is, is worshipping the one God.”
So Allah and the christian God are the same? This is news to me. It seems to me that the Catholic Church has already converted to islam.
Jaladhi says
It is strange one has to debate the obvious that “is Islam violent” as if the 1400 year history ofIslam and the daily violent terrorism of its followers are not enough to convince anybody, even the brain deads that Islam is violent and nothing but violent!
Keys says
Jaladhi says: “It is strange one has to debate the obvious that “is Islam violent…”
Exactly. To me a more relevant debate for Christians is “How do you love this violent enemy, anti-Christ Muslims ?”
One way would be by telling the truth, and not pretending that Islam is a religion of peace; but that would make the enemy angry and retaliatory, which Swetland must see, and so he must pretend Islam is an ROP to assuage the beast.
duh swami says
Did Abraham found I slam? How did he do that without the Quran?
The priesthood is a scam…Religious supremacist bigots are part of the problem, not the solution…
Isabellathecrusader says
Robert, do you remember that time at CPAC when we were all sitting in the bar Friday night and you said you couldn’t stomach the Latin side of the Church? Now I understand what you meant.
jewdog says
The Swetland doll: pull the string and it says a few lines, but always the same. I lke GI Joe better.
duh swami says
Gabriel lied…The priest has no case…Quran 8:12 has Allah identifying himself as a terrorist…Get past that if you can your holiness……
duh swami says
Proper reading of the Quran..Read properly, what does Quran 5:33 really mean?
John C. Barile says
One of my very favorite passages of all time!
Rami Sivan says
I’m astonished that the Msgr argues so passionately about something he obviously know very little about! The least he could have done as such a savant in the Catholic Church would at least take the time to read the Koran!
Jerry says
He’s just one more religious idiot that thinks with his heart, not his head. He’s very much a part of the problem and not the solution.
Mark Swan says
I Agree Jerry
Pong says
Unfortunately, that wasn’t the best from Robert. He didn’t realy go after this idiot. I had a feeling that Robert was tired and didn’t have his usual conviction. May be he was a bit unwell, or didn’t have a good sleep.
This bishop is a simple criminal, I knew that, but I didn’t know they can get to a leading position in church being so stupid. He was trying to make a theological argument on the base of his own experience!!! He even had an audacity to patronize Robert, who’s knowledge of islam is hundreds of times better. Unbelievable!
I just wander, where are those “proud catholics” which tend to appear on JW with nauseating regularity.
After more then 10 years ago when I predicted on JW that catholic church will sell itself to islam and was vilified for it, I would like to tell them – I told you so!
John C. Barile says
“This bishop is. . . .”–Heaven forbid, Pong, if the Monsignor (an honorific title) ever becomes a bishop! Chancellor of a Catholic University, yes, but no bishop.
Jerry says
The argument is always the same with muslim apologists. It goes something like, “Gee there’s so many nice muslims in the world, islam must be a religion of peace.” Well of course that’s a bullsh*t argument. The debate isn’t whether or not dangerous muslims can be nice, or if nice muslims can be nice, of course they can. The important question is, is islam a violent ideology and are muslims killing and terrorizing because of it? Of course the answer is yes. The majority of Catholic leaders seem to think if we just see the best in muslims then everything will work out. But it won’t and it never has where islam is concerned. Nazism would never have been overcome with grovelling love and neither will islam.
Muslims believe they are fulfilling the will of god by imposing islam on others through violent means. Stroking their egos with false praise and affection will not cause them to abandon that quest. Jihad to muslims means as much to them as the Cross and salvation means to Christians. Both ideologies are deeply ingrained in the minds of the faithful. The west has welcomed muslims with open arms and the response has been murder, rape, and dangerous enclaves. Every area of our lives is a showcase for islam’s conquering aspirations. I think “love your enemy” is a fine ideal, but that doesn’t mean we should forsake our nation and our own well being. True love does the right thing for all concerned, it doesn’t allow murder and terror against some so others can be bigoted and hateful for their religion. I think that’s a given.
Baucent says
The call from George the Lebanese Christian pretty much crushed the Msgr’s story of “meeting muslims in the military and they were nice people”. Christians from the middle east will know the reality of persecution from muslims and having to live as second class citizens. That fact is avoided by churchmen like Swetland.
Tony46 says
Obomit is a a Nobel Peace and he is destroying the world.
Tony says
It’s hard to win an debate with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an debate with a stupid person. Good debate Robert! We are on an uphill battle.
N Mekota says
Wanted to listen to entire debate.
Did anyone else note that the Catholic Church apparently not only respects Islam as areligion of peace – but more shockingly affords this same tolerance toward Protestants.
Jihad warring Muslims are one thing – but if you expect me to hug a Lutheran who doesn’t accept the infallibility of the pope – now you’ve gone too far.
sancho panza says
Wow Robert, you just go from strength to strength! A small disagreement – it’s not going to take 50 or 100 years. You are a prophet of our times and it’s not going to be long before people acknowledge you as such. God bless you.
Mr. Swetland seems to be living in la-la land. (Monsignor, you’re not in Kansas any more).
I’m astounded at the massive cognitive dissonance present in the notables of our world. It almost seems like they’ve sold their souls to the devil.
mortimer says
agree with sancho panza about cognitive dissonance.
The remarks of Mgr. Stewart Swetland are more than that…they are intentionally deceitful.
Swetland’s popes do not define what Islam is for Muslims. Al Azhar University defines Islam for 90% of Muslims.
Stendec says
Is Islam violent? Well, is the Pope Catholic?
Oh, wait a minute . . .
Tony46 says
”….because in those days the Lord won’t send us a Shepherd but a Destroyer”
(Prophecy of St. Francis of Assisi about the Catholic Church)
JG says
Thanks Robert for your continuing work on Islam. I’m not done with your interview yet but when someone says Islam is a peaceful religion I tell them two things. One it’s not just a religion but has 3 components as I understand it. It has a military, political (sharia) and religious component. Also, there is an acronym of WWJD, what would Jesus do? We could use this as well with Mohammed. What would Mohammed do? Read Christ’s biography, the 4 Gospels and read Mohammed’s biography. They exhibit opposite behaviors and lived very different lives. Read Mohammed’s bio and then convince me that he was peaceful and righteous. He is the leader of Islam. Muslims follow his example.
August West says
This was easily the most illuminating debate that I have seen on the question “Is Islam a Religion of Peace?”.
Swetland is clearly well educated and in a position of authority, and would have been able to put forward the best possible case for the position that Islam is a Religion of Peace.
Swetland’s argument is notably very week and centers on these three points:
1)Catholic theology says that Islam is a religion of peace. Islam is peaceful because the Catholic brass says it is.
Spencer did an excellent job of exposing this as an “argument from authority”.
2)Most of the Muslims in the world, and all of the Muslims that he has met, are peaceful.
Spencer does a very good job of pointing to Pew research to illustrate some of the errors with this point.
Another rather obvious problem with this point is that Swetland probably has not encountered a statistically significant random sample of the world’s Muslim population. Even if he has encountered such a sample, on what basis did he certify whether they are peaceful or not. Also, if one allows that the population of Muslims that Swetland has encountered are not Jihadists, one is left to wonder how they think about FGM, Honor Killings, Homosexuality, and the consequences for drawing a picture of Mohammad.
Muslims not being Jihadist does not mean they are peaceful.
3)Christians and other non believers have historically lived in peace with Muslims. Therefore, Islam is peaceful.
Spencer and one of the callers expose this point to be quite simply historically incorrect.
Swetland’s argument is notably, and I think surprisingly, week.
Most significantly, Swetland does not refer to authoritative Islamic texts to make the argument that “Islam is a Religion of Peace”.
Swetland does refer to the bible in a few instances for example, he refers to Mattew 7, and says that Islam has borne good fruit, therefore it is peaceful. I found this statement to be truly amazing.
The final impression that I got from the debate was that Swetland was essentially saying that Catholic position on this topic was closed with Vatacan II. It is almost as if Swetland views Vatican II as “the closure of the gates of ijtihad” within Catholic Theology.
Swetland clearly did not make the point that Islam is a Religion of Peace from my perspective, and instead illustrated exactly how feeble the position that “Islam is a Religion of Peace” really is. He also brought to light what I would consider to be serious problems with Catholic Theology more broadly.
jg says
Here is Matthew 7 vs. 15-20: A Tree and Its Fruit
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
Key phrase: You will recognize them by their fruits. Did this guy read the whole chapter?
mortimer says
The block-headed stupidity of Mgr. Swetland and Pope Francis will lead intelligent members of the church to revolt. Many will stop their donations until rationality returns.
mortimer says
Pope Francis is imposing a diplomatic language on all church members … based on what? Infallibility does not apply to every opinion a pope may have.
Pope Francis is factually in error about Islam. Islam is the RELIGION OF JIHAD-WARFARE AGAINST DISBELIEVERS, OF SUBJUGATION, OF ENSLAVEMENT, OF SUPPRESSION OF WOMEN’S RIGHTS, OF DHIMMITUDE, OF CENSORSHIP, OF ETHNIC CLEANSING, OF CULTURAL AND PHYSICAL GENOCIDE.
Islam is not ‘the religion of peace’. Islam behaves conspiratorially towards the host society until Muslims are in all positions of influence and control the finances, industry and government, at which point factions within the Muslim communities war with one another for hegemony, e.g. Sunni versus Shi’ite.
Omar says
The pope is in error because the church is in error. The Bible forbids man from claiming any higher authority. There is no man alive that can forgive sin. No pope, no priest and hear a confession and absolve you of anything. Praying to a man made saint, kissing a statues feet or making Mary into a demigod all are sins. Catholicism is rotten at it’s core so do not fear any priests admonitions of hell-fire. They will be the occupants of hell.
John C. Barile says
All legitimate human authority comes from God–it is in that sense that we have but One Father and One Teacher, ultimately. Every child calls his father, “Father” and his teacher, “Teacher.” Jesus was a man, and his followers called him Teacher and Master. And he declared to the sick and the repentant, “Your faith has healed you” and “Your sins are forgiven you”–and the pharisees protested, “Who is this man to forgive sin–only G-d can forgive sin!”
KrazyKafir says
The Catholic church is slowly changing into the enemy.
PissLam says
What the Pope and those like Merkel are doing is to bide time until the Muslims are strong enough to demand we surrender without a fight. This may sound outlandish but there is no desire to face Islam directly to tell them enough is enough and to stop it or we’ll stop them and send back a thousand years.
Also, if we wait till every Muslim turns aggressive, we may not be around long enough to write about it. The reason why we ban drink-driving is because we notice patterns and we take measures against it for the good of society. We do so because we value human life. All this political correctness has shown that we no longer value human life. It’s ironic but every society must first take care of its own.
Muslims are not like any other group of people. It’s an unfortunate fact. The day we stop looking out for our own and value our own life is when we become like them.
And Robert, you really well and you would have done better by telling the holier-than-thou character that history with respect to Islamic conquests and rule are clear that you are only sharing facts. You are not foretelling as much as you are recollecting history.
PissLam says
There have been numerous barbaric and demonic Popes in the past.
JG says
At the 53 minute mark you find out all you need to know about the Monsignor. He went to Oxford, has a koran that is falling apart from his days there and he considered entering Islam at that time. I’m Catholic but understand it is run by men that are sinners as I am. They are not infallible and can lack common sense as we all can from time to time. The Church will survive these men as it has since the beginning. It’s just a shame it is being led by men who are blinded by reality. Again, as in a previous post, read Mohammed’s bio and compare to Christ. Mohammed cut of the heads of Jews he conquered. He set an example. Jesus put back the ear of a guard one of his flock cut off when they came to take Him. Jesus was Peace. Mohammed? No one can read his bio and say that……
George McLaughlin says
The good monsignor exposes the confusing and dangerous thought being spewed on the faithful in the pews. Our Holy Father is its most damaging practitioner. The hierarchy and the entire Catholic family is still suffering from the weak and misguided teaching of Vatican II. Go to twenty different Catholic churches in the next few months and look for the tabernacle–the reason we genuflect–in the middle of the sanctuary. Many of those churches will have moved the tabernacle, sometimes to an obscure location–and painted over beautiful frescoes and removed statues. Why? it comes from the same root as faulty thinking about the “real intent” of Island. I don’t agree with everything Robert Spencer espouses, but he is seeking truth, not comfortable armchair theories. God help him, and us all! Say a prayer for Msgr. Swetland and the Pope.
c matt says
He is correct, there is no place in Msgr. Swetland’s church for those with an accurate view of Islam. But his church is not the Roman Catholic Church.
KrazyKafir says
Pope Karl the 1st is even worse.
JS says
Welcome to ISLAMOPHILIA…
Michael says
Nice work, Robert. I know Msgr. Stuart personally and know him to be an extremely intelligent and learned man and an excellent priest, not the person described in some of the moronic and hateful ignorant comments above. I am a little disappointed with his performance here. He didn’t really address your points specifically or completely, and that’s not really like most discussions I have had with him. In any case, you did quite well; that was a great discussion, and I truly enjoyed listening to it.
August West says
Michael, curiously – have you ever spoken with Swetland on the topic of Islam?
If so, would you characterize his performance in this case as different from your previous conversations with him on the topic of Islam?
Beagle says
It was striking to listen to the instant appeal to authority by Monsignor Swetland and his pulling rank, essentially telling you to follow orders. And that, in a nutshell, is why I could never ascribe to any organized religion which claims to have any power over my observations and analysis of the world around me. No, 2+2 does not equal 5.
Then Swetland breezily dismisses the reality of 1,400 years of Islamic jurisprudence and conquest while Robert shows an encyclopedic knowledge of history, sharia and Islamic theology.
Monsignor Swetland plays the ‘we must all be moderate Muslims to defeat the terrorists’ card. As if any Muslim anywhere gets direction on Islam from non-Muslims. Accusing Robert of “aiding and abetting” Osama Bin Laden is the low level of reasoning and discourse I have come to expect from modern Islamic propagandists and apologists like Swetland.
It was obvious Swetland knew nothing of ijtihad, bid’a or the resulting death penalty under sharia, one actually enforced by sharia courts in modern times. How embarrassing for a church ruled by a Jesuit, an order once known for scholastic abilities and flinty realism.
And of course Swetland deploys the ‘if you know a peaceful Muslim it’s a peaceful religion’ canard. Yeah, I know one who drinks whisky, owns dogs, listens to music, and let’s his kids trick or treat on Halloween. As in, he’s not following Islamic doctrine in most areas of his life! Moreover, he refuses to let his family go to the CAIR imam nearby.
George, the first caller, fires a full broadside of facts into Swetland’s rosy delusions. Ouch, for the Monsignor. He once again tries to bail out his leaky arguments by name dropping. I think Swetland was struck mute by Robert’s barrage of facts on Sufism. He knew exactly none of that. He knows the dancing dervishes, and little else.
Wow, Swetland, “a tiny minority perverting a great religion” talking point? How very 2002 of you. It’s lost all traction in 2016.
What a comprehensive thrashing Swetland received other than throwing his clerical weight around. He should have had a corner priest throw in the towel. Many people in the modern world do not want to just follow orders.
Based on the callers, no matter how many logical fallacies, personal attacks and deceptions Swetland and his ilk deploy, the grass of truth is breaking through the well-funded concrete being used to keep the masses ignorant of authoritative Islamic doctrine.
August West says
I agree with this analysis completely. Swetland’s argument completely fell on its face, and he demonstrated a particularly poor understanding of both Islamic Ideology and also Islamic History.
He even stooped so low as to say – we should welcome Muslims just as we would like to be welcomed in Islamic nations. I noted how Swetland, in his exercise of wishful thinking, places the onus for the relationship between Catholics and Muslims directly and completely on the shoulders of Catholics.
Hey at least Swetland did not say anything that might put any funding that he might get from the Catholic Church (of Federal Government) at risk.
Pionono says
You destroyed the Monsignor. He knows nothing and merely recites an argument from authority regarding papal opinions that are not even authoritative in the first place.
EricT63 says
In any discussion, debate or dialogue of Islam today, it is imperative to mention that al Qaeda and ISIS are actively trying to procure WMD’s and WME’s.
These two weapons should give a clearer focus toward a course of action. We only have so much time for intellectual banter, no?
John A. Marre says
Priests and cardinals are trained to accept what the church teaches, without question.
Intellectual honesty is not to be found among that crowd.
Isabellathecrusader says
Nope, not accurate John. Not all priests and cardinals are like that. The priests at my church are opposed to the Muslim onslaught and their nasty behavior. And Cardinal Raymond Burke understands what is what when it comes to the Muslims also.
Juan S says
At this pace one day they will invite muslims to the Swiss Guard.
eduardo odraude says
Smiling clueless priest. This is what the Catholic Church has to offer right now? Does this guy care more about truth or about Catholic teaching and authority? Obviously the latter, since whenever Spencer presented unanswerable facts, Swetland went to hide behind the skirts of the current pope, or else could muster only the lamest of arguments based on various logical fallacies. Swetland should immediately absent himself from public teaching and spend the rest of his life studying Aquinas. Maybe then Swetland would learn to evaluate facts and think logically, instead of stick with his pollyanish suicidal uninformed nincompoopery based on his mindless submission to human authority. He says about Spencer:
“I find it hard to believe, to talk to a fellow Catholic who wants to be so dismissive of the received papal teaching on this.”
As far as I’m concerned, Msgr. Swetland convicts himself out of his own mouth. His opinion is worthless because he does not think for himself but makes himself an empty mouthpiece for some spiritual boss whom he esteems above truth. What does that have to do with the Christ? It has more to do with contamination of original, pure Christianity by the authoritarianism of the Roman Empire.
John Stefan says
Robert says: ” He [Msgr.Swetland] claims that these popes’ statements on Islam being peaceful are authoritative and guided by the Holy Spirit.” The Msgr. is a faithful Catholic but very wrong in his beliefs. The Holy Spirit works only through the truths of Holy Scripture and NOT through the dictates and traditions and documents of the church. The church is dead wrong in holding to the falsehood that the followers of Muhammad worship the same god as the followers of Christ do. The Holy Spirit does not work to convince people that the falsehoods that the clergymen of any church concoct are true. Many leaders in the R. C. Church and also other denominations are wrong in their thinking about Islam just as Eve was wrong in thinking that it is good for her to eat the forbidden fruit. This is because of the work of the devil, not of the Holy Spirit. Both God and the devil work. Right?!
Robert Spencer says, “Thus I doubt that Msgr. Swetland is correct in suggesting that papal statements on Islam being peaceful are authoritative for Catholics; what is interesting, however, is that he was suggesting that there is no place in the Church for people with a realistic view of Islam.” This 86 year old retired Lutheran clergyman says: Robert, you are correct and the Msgr. is all wet. Scripture is the only source of doctrine for Christians and, according to Scripture, Jesus Christ is the Word made flesh to atone for our sins and that only by grace of God alone through faith in His Son do we enter Paradise and we do not at all enter heaven by anything that Muhammad teaches and stands for.
Thank you much brother Robert in all of your efforts to try to wake up people not only in the secular world but, of all places, in the church too. Well, the devil works in many places, especially in the church.
Robert Spencer says, “If the view that Islam is a religion of peace wins out altogether in the Catholic Church, and it certainly prevails at the highest levels in the Church today, and if it is imposed somehow upon the faithful, then the Church will have enshrined falsehood as official policy. And it is getting very, very close to doing just that.” What to do then? Well, just as it is best for a Muhammadan to get out of Islam, then, if the Church forces a Roman Catholic to believe something that is not true, then it is time to get out of the Roman Catholic church and, please permit me to say: come and visit a conservative Lutheran Church. Of course, visit us anyway.
linnte says
Robert I listened to this Monsieur speak with so much dismay. In the end he said he had actually considered becoming a Muslim before he chose the Catholic Church, and that his copy of the Qur’an was so worn out, pages were loose. My question is, how can a man who has so studied the Qur’an, and apparently the Holy Bible too, NOT see and understand that Islam is not an Abrahamic religion BECAUSE THE PROMISE was given to Abraham’s true son not the bastard son, Ishmael. How can a priest not know that the bastard does not inherit? Christians know that YHWH gave Abraham the command to sacrifice his son, but supplied the ram for the actual sacrifice as a metaphor for the Son of God becoming the Lamb.
This priest is a tool of Islam. Period. I was astounded also, when he literally told the caller, Peter, that disagreeing with Papal mandates means he is really not a Catholic, and then he cut Peters call off! This ACT BY THIS PRIEST is identical to what Islam would do in the same instance!!!!
I refuse to believe Catholicism has slammed the door on freedom of speech and opinions if someone disagrees with the POPE? This isn’t the dark ages!
mortimer says
If Swetland read the Koran more than once, it is surprising. The Koran does not interpret itself, but contradicts itself. The interpretations are in the Sira, hadiths and canonical commentaries and Sharia law.
Since Swetland has not done the basic reading list of Islam, he isn’t in a position to comment on what is true or false about Islam. He is guessing and presenting his guesses as fact. Unscholarly.
Champ says
Msgr. Stuart Swetland probably embraces evil Chrislam …
Les says
As a Catholic I am deeply offended at trying to appease pure evil. Islam is heretical and pure evil and not even comparable to Judaism. The monsignor is typical of US priests and bishops who think you can appease evil when you cannot. Jesus did not. We need to tell the truth about Islam and the evangelization should be to leave Islam not try to make it into something that it clearly is not and it can never be. Islam is pure evil and it should be exterminated from a peace loving human race.
Ciudadano says
I was trying to abstain myself of commenting about this post, but the embarrassing scene at the Olympics judo match at Rio between the Israeli and the Muslim Egyptian compelled me to comment.
What disconcerts me about some Catholic authorities, which almost praise Islam, is how grossly they seem to disregard so many Christian martyrs tortured and slaughters at the hands of Islamic authorities for standing up for their faith in Jesus Christ and the opinion of many saints who have denounced the false teachings of Mohamed.
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2015/11/st-john-bosco-preached-truth-about.html
http://www.onepeterfive.com/what-did-the-saints-say-about-islam
It seems to me that the Catholic Church changed its strategy regarding Islam. The new strategy seems to be to promote interfaith dialog based on, in my opinion non relevant, commonalities between the religions, like moral principles, opposition to abortion, etc, and downplay dogmatic differences. That strategy could work between Christian denominations or even Christianity and other religions, but the problem with Islam is that its theology explicitly and adamantly rejects fundamental Christian believes. Islam is defined by its rejection of Christianity. The following post is very illustrative.
http://www.onepeterfive.com/the-dialogue-delusion/
common sense says
As a cradle Catholic I’d say there is only one God and his living incarnation is Jesus Christ and there is only one church recognized by God. Islam as a religion should actually be disregarded from the outset of the conversation. The Catholic church is toting a party line I won’t follow, the window of the church has become dirty but its still a window to God. Fine I’ll clean it myself.
A better question would be “are Muslims violent”?
Guns and bullets are not violent, when the two are put together the potential for extreme violence escalates. Add the person with bad intentions and the end result is violent.
Muslims might be mostly peaceful but then add Mohammed and the Quran and the potential for violence escalates. Add a Muslim with bad intentions and the end result could be very violent, ultra violent. 911 ultra violent.
Muslims are the weapon of Mohammed even if they don’t know it and the Quran is the ammunition.
.
linnte says
Just how I feel. Thanks Common Sense!
citycat says
Holy Spirit?
He’s a downright liar.
Holy Spirit?
He has never experienced the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit does not talk words.
The Holy Spirit is a manifestation of the hearts of the disciples in unison, or of a disciple in a state of purity and focus.
He is a liar.
Ask him the form of the Holy Spirit, he won’t be able to answer truthfully.
Ask him what the Holy Spirit is made from.
He will speak bull or not answer or lie and to try to pull the wool over people’s eyes.
He probably thinks it doesn’t exist and so he can blag anybody about it.
Even an atheist can experience the Holy Spirit. It is not dependant on a belief in God.
The Holy Spirit is beyond belief.
I’ve not noticed the Holy Spirit in other religions. They have their own form of holiness, or purity if you like.
Without prejudice i’ve not seen or felt any holiness in a Mosque.
An evolved Imam spoke of the evils practised in the Mosque.
mark says
And thus you expose your ignorance and lying nature
Richard says
What this guy Swetland basically says is this – Islam is a religion of peace because the Pope and the Church say so.
The same church said the Sun moved around the Earth. Why the hell should we believe the church, pope or anyone rather than the evidence? (Or in other words, they are asking us not to believe our own lying eyes).
AtomicB says
The Catholic Church never dogmatized an earth centred solar system.
Richard says
“The Catholic Church never dogmatized an earth centred solar system.”
Of course it did. It burnt Giordano Bruno at the stake. And would have done the same with Galileo had he not recanted.
“I, Galileo, son of the late Vincenzo Galilei, Florentine, aged seventy years, arraigned personally before this tribunal, and kneeling before you, Most Eminent and Reverend Lord Cardinals, Inquisitors-General against heretical depravity throughout the entire Christian commonwealth, having before my eyes and touching with my hands, the Holy Gospels, swear that I have always believed, do believe, and by God’s help will in the future believe, all that is held, preached, and taught by the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. But whereas — after an injunction had been judicially intimated to me by this Holy Office, to the effect that I must altogether ABANDON THE FALSE OPINION THAT THE SUN IS THE CENTER OF THE WORLD AND IMMOVABLE, AND THAT THE EARTH IS NOT THE CENTER OF THE WORLD, and moves, and that I must not hold, defend, or teach in any way whatsoever, verbally or in writing, the said false doctrine, and after it had been notified to me that THE SAID DOCTRINE WAS CONTRARY TO HOLY SCRIPTURE ,,,”
Shame on the Catholic Church.
David says
LOL! Hilarious that there are still people who think that Bruno was burned at the stake for defending heliocentrism! This is what happens when people learn history from “Cosmos” instead of from history books! http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/giordano-bruno-cosmos-heretic-scientist
Godless says
Richard wrote:
“The Catholic Church never dogmatized an earth centred solar system.”
Of course it did. It burnt Giordano Bruno at the stake. And would have done the same with Galileo had he not recanted.
The Church didn’t burn Giordano Bruno at the stake because he defied a geocentric solar system, but because he taught a whole bunch of other wild and crazy heresies. Richard says the Church “would have” burned Galileo at the stake too if he hadn’t recanted — where’s Richard’s proof of that? In his erroneous view of Giordano Bruno’s execution?
Richard says
“Richard says the Church “would have” burned Galileo at the stake too if he hadn’t recanted — where’s Richard’s proof of that? ”
Did I not post Galileo’s recantation?
Richard says
“Hilarious that there are still people who think that Bruno was burned at the stake for defending heliocentrism!”
There was nothing hilarious about Bruno having his tongue ripped out from him and being burnt alive. Or that was not a criminal act of torture and murder on the part of the Catholic Church, at par with the worst cruelty committed by ISIS, while claiming to represent Christ’s teachings.
Can there be anything more ludicrous than having a man in a funny hat, living in an opulent palace claiming to represent a person who had nowhere to rest his head?
What Bruno challenged, among other things, was that the Earth had any special place in the Universe.
“Bruno (from the mouth of his character Philotheo) in his De l’infinito universo et mondi (1584) claims that “innumerable celestial bodies, stars, globes, suns and earths may be sensibly perceived therein by us and an infinite number of them may be inferred by our own reason.”[6]
Teaching this was among the charges the Inquisition made against him.[7]”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_pluralism#Renaissance
mortimer says
Richard wrote: “Islam is a religion of peace because the Pope and the Church say so.”
But the pope does not define Islam. Al Azhar University defines Islam.
Richard says
The Pope defines Islam and indeed all truth for Catholics
John C. Barile says
Not so. Yours is a gross exaggeration. The Pope’s personal perspectives are the product of his prudential judgment, which has some weight by virtue of the office he holds, but are not dogmas. The Pope cannot speak infallibly about matters that are beyond his own competence, nor can he propose anything as doctrinal truth that runs contrary to revealed religious truths embodied in Scripture or Apostolic tradition.
Phil says
Islam has NEVER been a religion of peace. Since 630AD they have been using war, violence, intimidation, and force to make people convert to Islam, or be beheaded. NONE of the Imams,
or other Islamic leaders have EVER denounced violence. It is even a BASIS, and required by their own Quar’ an: “Infidels (all who are NOT Muslim), kill them where you find them.” They have been using terrorism, and beheadings all this time, and it’s only now, when they are bleeding over into civilization, that we are faced with this bloody cult of murder, and submission. Islam isn’t a “religion.” Religions teach peace, love, brotherhood. If you just watch their “PEACE TV CHANNEL” for a while, you will hear their REAL goals. One Black Imam even RECRUITED Blacks to: Join Islam, and the Jihad and fight your oppressors.” Does THAT sound like the “Religion of Peace?”
Even in the refugee boats fleeing to Italy, Greece, etc., with regular Muslims aboard, not terrorists, see them throwing Christian refugees overboard mid-ocean to drown. They behead Christian men, women, and even children. No act is too barbaric fro these inhuman members of this murder cult. It is a pagan cult. They bow down to the East, towards that large black cube in Mecca, and even must make a pilgrimage to it once in their lifetime. What’s in that black cube? Their remaining god. Islam USED to house 360 pagan idol gods in that cube under Polytheism (many gods), and then they changed to
Monotheism (one god), and threw out all but one pagan idol..their Moon god, which is represented on their flags. Still..it is a PAGAN god, having absolutely NO connection to the God of the Christians, and Jews. They are telling us now that they are the same, to boost inclusion (or assimilation as best said), but actually their god allah is a pagan Moon god.
prman says
The Monsignor is an ass.
ghengisdhad says
Mr Spencer, for matters of faith etc i will follow the Church. I am inclined however to puit more faith in your efforts when it comes to Islam.
keep up the good works sir.
Bindon Blood says
The Western church leaders are making the same error as the Eastern churches; believing that by placating Islam and saying nice things about it will induce the Muslims to look kindly upon the church and allow them to live in peace. It failed in the East and it will definitely fail in the West .
Harry ko says
The pope and this Kansas collage prof have their heads burried deep in the sand .
Islam should be band from the free world !!!
Diane Toler says
On the dogmatic weight of “Nostra Aetate”:
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/sspx-could-be-reconciled-with-rome-without-accepting-all-of-vatican-ii
Archbishop Guido Pozzo, the Secretary of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, told a German newspaper that Pope Francis has offered the SSPX a return to full Communion via a personal prelature within the Church. ……..
“Nostra Aetate does not have any dogmatic authority, and thus one cannot demand from anyone to recognize this declaration as being dogmatic,” Pozzo said. “This declaration can only be understood in the light of tradition and of the continuous Magisterium. For example, there exists today, unfortunately, the view — contrary to the Catholic Faith — that there is a salvific path independent of Christ and His Church. That has also been officially confirmed last of all by the Congregation for the Faith itself in its declaration, Dominus Iesus. Therefore, any interpretation of Nostra Aetate which goes into this [erroneous] direction is fully unfounded and has to be rejected.”
KenD says
Fantastic, Robert! You’re in laser-fine form here. Thanks for your continued efforts to see that “the truth will out”.