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Must Catholics believe that Islam is peaceful?

Aug 16, 2016 9:50 am By Robert Spencer

The controversy over my debate with Msgr. Stuart Swetland, about which I wrote here, continues. William Kilpatrick here ably explains what is at stake.

“Must Catholics Believe that Islam Is Peaceful?,” by William Kilpatrick, Crisis, August 16, 2016:

The Apostles’ Creed (updated version):

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, and the peaceful nature of Islam. Amen.

Or, anyway, that’s how it ought to read according to Monsignor Stuart Swetland, President of Donnelly College in Kansas City. No, Msgr. Swetland didn’t actually propose a revision to the Apostles’ Creed, but he does seem to be saying that Catholics have a religious obligation to affirm that Islam is a religion of peace.

In a long statement following up on a radio debate with Robert Spencer on Relevant Radio’s Drew Mariani Show, Swetland, according to Spencer, “contends that the statements of recent Popes to the effect that Islam is a religion of peace fall into the category of teachings to which Catholics must give ‘religious assent.’”

Swetland writes: “My main purpose in having a discussion with Robert Spencer, a Catholic, on a Catholic radio network was to show clearly that his positions on Islam were at odds with Catholic teaching.” He goes on to give a sample of magisterial teachings on Islam, starting with Nostra Aetate and including statements and exhortations from Paul VI, John Paul II, Benedict XVI, and Francis. He then observes:

Robert Spencer’s positions seem to be at odds with the magisterial teachings on what authentic Islam is and what Catholics are called to do about it (accept immigrants, avoid hateful generalizations, show esteem and respect, etc.). At least in the area of morals, Robert seems to be a dissenter from the papal magisterium.

And Fr. Swetland is a dissenter from common sense. The pages of history, the daily news, and Islam’s sacred texts all attest to the fact that Islam is not a religion of peace. Or, to quote the Ayatollah Khomeini, “Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those are witless.” Khomeini was an Ayatollah Usma, a “Grand Sign of God”—an honor bestowed only on the most learned religious leaders. My guess is that the Ayatollah knew a lot more about Islam than Msgr. Swetland does.

I’m not saying that Swetland is “witless.” In fact, he seems to be an intelligent man. He has an undergraduate degree in physics, was a Rhodes Scholar, and studied philosophy and economics at Oxford. Still, high IQ and common sense don’t always go together. As George Orwell noted, “some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them.”

In the radio debate and in an article responding to his statement, Robert Spencer does a fine job of dismantling Swetland’s arguments. For one thing, says Spencer, affirmations about the nature of Islam should not be a matter of Catholic faith and morals. In other words, it’s a serious overreach to contend that the “wrong” opinion on the nature of Islam or on the advisability of mass Muslim immigration may constitute dissent from Church teaching. In saying that it does, Swetland has just created a whole new class of Catholic dissenters—one that probably numbers in the tens of millions. Spencer also observes that what previous popes had to say about Islam contradicts what current popes have said. Which Roman Pontiff must Catholics agree with: “Pope Francis, who declared that ‘authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence,’ or Pope Callixtus III, who in 1455 vowed to ‘exalt the true Faith, and to extirpate the diabolical sect of the reprobate and faithless Mahomet in the East’?”

The linchpin of Swetland’s case is Nostra Aetate’s brief statement about the “Moslems.” But as Spencer, and I, and others have pointed out, there are numerous problems with Nostra Aetate. One question that arises is whether Nostra Aetate was ever intended to be a dogmatic statement. That’s more of a question for Church historians to debate, but let’s just say for now that the question is debatable. What is less debatable is that the section of Nostra Aetate that deals with the “Moslems” is highly problematic, highly selective, and poorly thought out. For instance, the document states (I’m using Swetland’s translation) that Muslims “venerate Jesus,” but to anyone familiar with the Muslim Jesus, it’s not at all clear that it’s the same Jesus. For one thing, the Muslim Jesus makes his appearance in the Koran for no other purpose than to refute everything that Jesus of Nazareth says about himself. Nostra Aetate goes on to say that “they [Muslims] await the day of judgment and the reward of God following the resurrection of the dead.” What the document fails to say is that on the day of judgment, according to Islamic teaching, all non-Muslims will be cast into hell. As to the “reward of God”? Well, let’s just say that it’s not the same reward that Catholics await. Here’s a typical description from the Koran:

As for the righteous, they shall surely triumph. Theirs shall be gardens and vineyards, and high-bosomed maidens for companions (78: 31-34).

There are many other omissions in Nostra Aetate. In fact, it seems to have been designed to present only a positive view of Islam. I’m not the only one to have noticed this skewed presentation. In a 2012 essay for L’Osservatore Romano, Pope Benedict writes of a “weakness” in Nostra Aetate. “It speaks of religion solely in a positive way,” he said, “and it disregards the sick and distorted forms of religion.” Sick and distorted? Benedict doesn’t speak explicitly of Islam, but exactly what other religion so readily lends itself to sick and distorted interpretations? The trouble with Nostra Aetate is that it leaves us with a very incomplete picture of Islam. The picture has enough holes to drive a fleet of suicide truck bombs through it.

The main problem with Msgr. Swetland’s statement, however, is its recklessness. Last week in Crisis I wrote that the Church’s handling of the Islamic challenge may prove to be far more scandalous than its handling of the sex abuse crisis. Church authorities are engaged in what amounts to a cover-up of Islam’s aggressive nature, and Msgr. Swetland is a prime example of this ecclesiastical determination to put a positive spin on everything Islamic. But the stakes involved in doing so are extremely high. As I wrote last week, “as the gap widens between what Church officials say about Islam and what ordinary Catholics can see with their own eyes, the credibility of the Church may once again come into question as it did during the sex abuse scandals.”

Spencer makes the same point, albeit a bit more boldly: “if Monsignor Swetland is correct, then Catholics must affirm that Islam is a religion of peace…and the Catholic Church will be requiring that its faithful affirm the truth of what is an obvious and egregious falsehood.” By binding themselves to this falsehood, says Spencer, Catholic leaders will undermine their authority to speak in the name of Christ.

Msgr. Swetland worries that Spencer’s interpretation will drive moderate Muslims into the arms of the radicals. What he should be worried about is that his own (and Pope Francis’) interpretation will drive common-sense Catholics out of the Church. Does he really want to stake the Church’s authority on such a slender reed as a single section of Nostra Aetate and a few scattered papal statements? At a moment in recent history when it’s becoming clear to all but the most obtuse that Islam is not a religion of peace, is this the time for doubling down on a claim that flies in the face of all the evidence? Do Msgr. Swetland and other like-minded clerics want the Church to stand or fall on this fantasy view of Islam?…

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Filed Under: Catholic Church, Featured, Useful idiots, willful ignorance Tagged With: Msgr. Stuart Swetland, Pope Francis


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Comments

  1. dumbledoresarmy says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 9:54 am

    Thank God for William Kilpatrick’s clear thinking.

    • John C. Barile says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 2:10 pm

      Amen.

    • linnte says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 6:17 pm

      General I think this debate, and the Monsignors stand on Islam has bothered me more than anything I have read or seen on JW. After ALL THE WORK and study Robert has put into the subject of Islam, only to be told, basically, that Robert is close to being apostate from Catholicism makes me want to bop this priest upside the head. And he said “I thought about converting to Islam” makes me wonder what his REAL modus operandi is.

      The Catholic Church is HUGE! What if every Catholic took this priests advice?

      • Ex-muslim says

        Aug 17, 2016 at 12:44 pm

        The Pope and his professors dogmatically and falsely believe that islam is the religion of peace and they ramming that false believe down on the throats of their clueless and ignorant Catholic flock worldwide. It is a civilizational disaster! All Western leaders and societies believe the same crap that islam is the religion of peace!

        • Poor Knight for Christ says

          Aug 17, 2016 at 3:59 pm

          It is not “dogmatically” believed, to use your word. That word has a VERY specific meaning in Catholicism. In this context, you use it improperly.

          The Pope and some priests / bishops (not my bishop though) have stated that Islam is a religion of peace. That’s the most we can say. For a faithful Catholic – of which I am trying to be – this is no more binding on our consciences than the Pope saying that the Green Bay Packers are a baseball team.

  2. Berengaria says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 10:03 am

    There are Hundreds of “Swetlands” Preaching in Catholic Churches, that is one of the main reasons why Parishoners have left The Church. “LOVE THY MURDERER” The Roman Church has never gone to that extreme, but The Church under Marxist Liberal Theology of Pope Francis the Fickle, I may just see a nasty surprise.

    • Cynthia in California says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 3:14 pm

      Check out Orthodoxy, what Christianity was before the devastating split between the East (Orthodox) and the West (Roman Catholic). I’m quite happy!

      • linnte says

        Aug 16, 2016 at 6:20 pm

        Are you Orthodox Cynthia? Is there some internet site that might compare the two? Thanks.

        • Sepp says

          Aug 16, 2016 at 8:40 pm

          Check Orthodox Christian Information Center

          orthodoxinfo.com

        • Poor Knight for Christ says

          Aug 17, 2016 at 4:00 pm

          Check out Catholic.com and compare.

        • Christianblood says

          Aug 17, 2016 at 6:45 pm

          linnte

          Please visit an Orthodox Church near you. For Orthodox spirituality please visit pastor, Rev. Theodore Nottingham’s lectures on the link below. He is a great help for the those who are seeking (Theosis) and related Orthodox spirituality he is in the US and he is an expert in these matters and wrote many books on the subject. Watch his short lectures please:

    • Salome says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 5:01 pm

      Love thy murderer is one thing. Love thy daughter’s rapist (to the point of doing nothing to protect thy daughter) is quite another.

    • African infidel says

      Aug 17, 2016 at 3:15 pm

      To Berengaria

      (“LOVE THY MURDERER”)! hahaha!

      That is what they basically telling their people. They want their people dead in the hands of muslim jihadists. Thousands of Nigerian Catholics were murdered in the past two years alone in Nigeria and the Pope or his church paid no attention to them. What a shame!

      • Angemon says

        Aug 18, 2016 at 9:22 am

        African infidel posted:

        “Thousands of Nigerian Catholics were murdered in the past two years alone in Nigeria”

        Nigeria is in Africa. Africa is the place you told Black Americans to go back to so they would feel at home. Hmmm………

    • Christianblood says

      Aug 17, 2016 at 6:33 pm

      Berengaria posted

      (..There are Hundreds of “Swetlands” Preaching in Catholic Churches, that is one of the main reasons why Parishoners have left The Church..)

      I am sure the number of the clueless “Swetlands” Catholic priests, professors, bishops, deacons and administrators are in the Tens of Thousands and counting!

    • le Mouron rouge says

      Aug 18, 2016 at 2:03 pm

      Hello Christianblood,

      Sadly, on the issue of Islam, too many mainline Protestant churches as lining up with the Roman Catholic Church and teaching Chrislam.

      There are Christian churches that are allowing Imams to come in and preach in their church, how delusional is that?

      For those of us who read the Bible, (Basic Instruction Before Leaving Earth) “AND” believe in Bible Prophecy, we should not be caught off guard.

      As I suggested to another person on this blog, please read – 2 Timothy/Chapter 3 and Romans/Chapter 1, and may I add Ephesians 6:12 to that list.

      We are involved in a monumental Cosmic Chess Match with move and counter move, a worldwide delusion is under way.

      I’m from the old school, a person who enjoys a good Western movie, in my early days, the good guys wore White hats and the Bad guys wore Black hats, there was a clear line between good and bad, not so anymore, that line has been blurred, Truth has been turned upside down, right is wrong and wrong is right.

      It seems that the Black hats are winning the battle, they are highly educated, very well-funded and they have a well thought out Agenda which they are faithfully following on a Global scale.
      This, I think, can only be attributed to Satanic involvement, the ramping up of Evil as it was in the days of Noah.

      As to your comment on Roman Catholics leaving the RCC, I sincerely doubt that will happen on a large scale, primarily due to what I called “The Blind Spot.”

      Think of it this way, Boy meets girl, they fall head over heels in love, Boy/Girl refuses to see any flaw in the other and generally will build a wall around their emotions to block out any criticism of their “flawless” loved one and on occasion alienating themselves from the critic.

      As a former Roman Catholic who left the RCC many, many years ago I have never looked back or doubted that decision.

      Now, I’m non-denominational.

      When I ask Roman Catholics “why” they are Roman Catholics, the most common answer is, “they were born into a family of Roman Catholics.” Their parents, grand-parents, great grand-parents were Roman Catholics, so they simply carry on the tradition.

      Many of these people, myself included, were educated (indoctrinated) in the RCC school system and simply will not accept an alternative. I use the word “indoctrinate” in the sense that even now I find myself starting to pray a Hail Mary when in a stressful situation. Get a child early enough and usually you will have that individual for the rest of his/her life.

      In that respect, is there any difference between a person born into a traditional Roman Catholic family, maybe educated in the RCC school system and a person born into a Muslim or Hindi or Buddhist family who is also educated in their respective religious schools?

      So we circle back to the question, “Why do people what they believe?”

      “Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning.”
      Albert Einstein

  3. mortimer says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 10:04 am

    ULTRA VIRES and the POPE …
    Things the Pope cannot define: 1) the formula in chemistry of table salt 2) the doctrines of the Lutheran Church 3) the distance in miles between the earth and the sun 4) the doctrines of the Bahai’i faith 5) the doctrines of Sunnite Islam (which are defined by Al Azhar University).

    The Pope does not define things that are beyond his competence. The technical term for Francis defining Islam as ‘the religion of peace’ is called ‘ultra vires’. It is defined as speaking “beyond one’s legal power or authority”.

    Pope Francis is speaking “ultra vires” about Islam. Therefore, Francis’s words about Islam are not authoritative for Roman Catholics or anyone else.

    Sunnite Muslims must think it is not only PREPOSTEROUS, but extremely OFFENSIVE for a top CHRISTIAN authority to INTRUDE into the definition of Islam!

    I guess Pope Francis never thought he is considered PRESUMPTUOUS by Muslims to think HE can define Islam for them!

    • Raja says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 11:15 am

      Mortimer,

      Good observation.

    • John C. Barile says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 2:12 pm

      You rock, dude.

    • linnte says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 6:22 pm

      Mortimer, thanks! I just felt my shoulders relax! XoXo

  4. Thomas says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 10:10 am

    A Catholic clergyman telling fellow Catholics about “authentic Islam”, that it is a religion of peace. What to do? Believe him or my own lying eyes. The Pope and his ilk like Msgr. Swetland sometimes engage in wishful thinking. They are useful idiots for the Islamists. Never could understand the teaching that Mulims and Christians could believe in the same God when the God of Islam has revealed to Mohammed that Christians have gone astray, and they need to pay the jizya and recognize their subjugation. The God of the Quran stipulating barbaric punishments is also not the loving God of Christianity. Makes absolutely no sense.

  5. David says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 10:13 am

    Perhaps Robert you should consider a protestant church, you would be welcome in the AOG.

    • mortimer says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 10:16 am

      Puh-lease. David, lots of smart Roman Catholics, Jesuits and religious experts disagree with this doctrinaire, pig-headed, block-headed, cultural Marxist Pope.

      • Dan says

        Aug 16, 2016 at 1:51 pm

        Amen there.

      • gravenimage says

        Aug 16, 2016 at 2:03 pm

        True.

      • David WS says

        Aug 16, 2016 at 4:42 pm

        It’s not magisterium dejour; it’s the Magisterium. Pope Francis has not changed any Magisterial Teaching.

    • John C. Barile says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 2:13 pm

      God bless the flock of Assemblies of God.

      • linnte says

        Aug 16, 2016 at 6:26 pm

        Yes! God bless ALL CHRISTIANS and potential Christians! And Buddhists, and whatever they are. To me they are all potential Christians. And Lord Jesus touch the hearts of ALL Muslims and cause them to hear your love, in Jesus name, amen!

    • Poor Knight for Christ says

      Aug 17, 2016 at 4:03 pm

      Why would I leave the historically, logically and biblically verifiable Church Christ founded just because the Pope said something wrong? He wasn’t teaching ex-Cathedra; he wasn’t making an official teaching.

      I would highly recommend you checking out Catholic.com to find out why, to a faithful Catholic, this doesn’t shake our faith in the One, Holy, Apostolic, Church Christ founded.

      • Peggy says

        Aug 18, 2016 at 1:26 am

        It’s true that the leadership is rotten and changing religions because of that would be silly but the scary thing is that the generation now who are just learning what it is to be Catholic might be taught to think this way by some churches.
        People look to the church to teach them their religion properly. If some priests under instruction from the head office start teaching this rubbish those parishioners wouldn’t know any better.

        This applies to all religions. It looks like the next generations are going to get quite a bit of brainwashing.

  6. mortimer says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 10:14 am

    Some Roman Catholic loyalists may think it is rude, bad manners and disloyal to publicly disagree with the Pope, but should the Pope not be corrected if he is seriously wrong…like everyone else?

    The Pope is seriously wrong…180 degrees off course… when he opines that Islam is predominantly ‘peaceful’. His opinion is not supported by the facts within the Islamic foundational texts, canonical commentaries or the comments of modern Islamic teachers of Islamic doctrine who have positions of authority within and above the Islamic community.

    • Malcolm (SouthAfria) says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 4:01 pm

      There have been nuns that have disagreed with Popes. What the Pope says on a plane is his personal opinion, of course it carries weight, however if it contradicts the traditions of the Church, an explanation is necessary.

      There is a responsibility to seek the truth in all things, Christians in Islamic countries are in a precarious situation, with zero help coming from Western secular governments in the form of any assistance form discrimination or violence.The major problem is the West facilitates violent aggression through arming their moderate Islamic rebels (they are no different to Daesh) who are the ones who are causing mayhem.

      The reaction from Pope Benedict XVI Regensburg address was a violent one on the defenseless and a precursor of a secular media that is Anti Catholic, that tends to inflame and puts people in danger.

      That been said, we cannot say something is good when it is not. If we do then we are the same as those who kill the unborn and say it is good and a human right. We have the responsibility to speak the truth at all times and name the evil we see.

      There is no such thing as Liberal Catholics, Conservative Catholics, Traditional Catholics. There is only one kind of Catholic, which propose is: to be obedient to truth and gives true freedom from evil.

      • David WS says

        Aug 16, 2016 at 4:44 pm

        Excellent commentary. Thank you.

    • Poor Knight for Christ says

      Aug 17, 2016 at 4:06 pm

      Absolutely a faithful Catholic can disagree with the Pope on many thing.

      I forget which one now (St. Catherine of Sienna maybe?) told Pope Gregory to “Esto Vir!” Be a Man and get the papacy back to Rome where Peter founded it.

      The Pope had been wrong to move the papacy to France. She told him to get it right.

      Popes have been and can be wrong in personal opinion, matters that are not faith and morals, or statements that are not explicitly for the Universal Church.

  7. Steve Klein says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 10:18 am

    “The Inquisition is a group of institutions within the judicial system of the Catholic Church whose aim was to combat heresy….”

    Thank God (for Spencer) it was abolished in the 19th century.

    “The Inquisition adopted another method of torture. The sufferer was bound (usually at their wrists) and suspended, lifted slowly and dropped one or more times. This technique provoked fractures of arms and shoulders. It had to last less than half an hour, since keeping victims in such a position for longer periods could lead to death.”

    • Jay Boo says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 10:37 am

      Muslims murder their own children for Allah.

      • Steve Klein says

        Aug 16, 2016 at 11:28 am

        Maybe the “Palestinians” are right. Maybe they are the descendents of the ancient Canaanites.

        Moses wrote: “You shall not behave thus toward the LORD your God, for every abominable act which the LORD hates they have done for their gods; for they even burn their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods.”

    • Cjt says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 5:16 pm

      This is not true by the way. 99 percent of the story of the inquisition was a myth. BBC did a documentary in 1994.

    • Poor Knight for Christ says

      Aug 17, 2016 at 4:13 pm

      This is absolutely false. Read “The Truth about Inquisition” – I believe – by Christopher Check, historian. There are over 20,000 court records from the Inquisitions – by the way, there were multiple, so I’m curious which one you think this description falls under.

      Records show that wherever the Inquisitions were held, capital punishment fell – especially when comparing to Protestant-run countries, and people who were arrested by civil courts would make heretical statements to be transferred into the Church courts.

      The Inquisitions started the idea of competent representation for the accused, giving the accused all the evidence prior to court hearings so they could make a defense, and various other things that are now part of modern Western court proceeding.

      When taken, in context with the rest of the world’s procedures at the time, the Inquisitions severely limited torture to the point that it was used in a very small percentage of cases. Compare to secular courts where torture was used in the vast majority of cases.

      Again, modern historical research has debunked the Jack Chick, Jimmy Swaggart, Loraine Boettner error-filled renditions of the Inquisitions.

  8. mortimer says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 10:19 am

    Pope Francis reminds me of Father Sarducci on Laugh In.

    • David WS says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 4:46 pm

      Not really. I think more often Father Sarducci was a better communicator.

  9. LMS says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 10:21 am

    Msgr. SS may have studied philosophy, but his seminary had likely buried Thomistic themes before his formation. As for Mr. Aquinas himself on Islam, importantly:

    “He (Mohammed) seduced the people by promises of carnal pleasure to which the concupiscence of the flesh urges us. His teaching also contained precepts that were in conformity with his promises, and he gave free rein to carnal pleasure. In all this, as is not unexpected; he was obeyed by carnal men. As for proofs of the truth of his doctrine, he brought forward only such as could be grasped by the natural ability of anyone with a very modest wisdom. Indeed, the truths that he taught he mingled with many fables and with doctrines of the greatest falsity.

    He did not bring forth any signs produced in a supernatural way, which alone fittingly gives witness to divine inspiration; for a visible action that can be only divine reveals an invisibly inspired teacher of truth. On the Contrary, Mohammed said that he was sent in the power of his arms – which are signs not lacking even to robbers and tyrants. What is more, no wise men, men trained in things divine and human, believed in him from the beginning (1). Those who believed in him were brutal men and desert wanderers, utterly ignorant of all divine teaching, through whose numbers Mohammed forced others to become his follower’s by the violence of his arms. Nor do divine pronouncements on part of preceding prophets offer him any witness. On the contrary, he perverts almost all the testimony of the Old and the New Testaments by making them into a fabrication of his own, as can be seen by anyone who examines his law. It was, therefore, a shrewd decision on his part to forbid his followers to read the Old and New Testaments, lest these books convict him of falsity. It is thus clear that those who place faith in his words believe foolishly.

    • Poor Knight for Christ says

      Aug 17, 2016 at 4:14 pm

      Thank you for posting Aquinas on this topic. This is excellent.

  10. Richard says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 10:24 am

    The Catholic Church and its related “charities” receive over a billion tax dollars to resettle Mid Eastern immigrants.
    Source: Washington Times< Sept 15, 2015

    • Poor Knight for Christ says

      Aug 17, 2016 at 4:50 pm

      I’d be interested to know the specifics. You see, the Catholic Church is not a single financial organization and the “charities” are not financially connected to “The Catholic Church” either. Each Diocese is financially separate, and there some financial autonomy for each parish too.

      So do you mean “Vatican City” which is the nation (not financially connected to any of the American diocese)? Or “Catholic Charities” which is a – alledgedly – Catholic by faith charity which is financially independent of any diocese? Or do you mean a specific parish – which is connected, by faith, to the Catholic Church?

      Please, I’d like to see the details…

  11. Jay Boo says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 10:35 am

    Msgr. Swetland must have attended an interfaith intellectual trap.
    Good cop Bad cop begins with a Bad cop (intimidation) followed by a Good cop (ingratiation).

    More sweets Msgr. Swetland?
    Muslims here are so glad that YOU are not like the OTHERS.

  12. Emilie Green says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 10:37 am

    When in 1455 Pope Callixtus III vowed to “exalt the true Faith, and to extirpate the diabolical sect of the reprobate and faithless Mahomet in the East,” he did so in the wake of a then recent Muslim massacre. In May, 1453, Constantinople was over-run by Mehmet II (b.1432; d.1481) and his Muslim hordes. This final capture of Constantinople had been an objective of the Ottoman Muslims for centuries.

    By the modern lights of the USCCB, their interpretation on the nature of Islam wouldn’t be shaken when Rome itself is over-run by the Muslim hordes. Which, true to the nature of Islam, Muslim promise to do,

    http://www.barenakedislam.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/ISIS-occupy-Rome-750×441.gif

    http://shoebat.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/anthonyTCK.jpg

  13. August West says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 10:41 am

    What is good about this debate is that it puts the spotlight on the fact that the notion that Islam is a religion of peace is absurd.

    Swetland is clearly well educated, has debating skill, and is in a position to make the best possible argument. He clearly was crushed.be Spencer.

    After the debate Swetland doubled down on one thread of his lame argument: it’s a religion of.peace because we say it is.

    The bad thing about the debate is that it exposes the blindness that is driving The Pope et al to accelerate the Islamic Hijrah into the EU.

    • John C. Barile says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 2:23 pm

      It ought to be remembered that St. Pope John Paul II earnestly sought an official affirmation of Christianity as the wellspring of European culture and identity as a preamble to the EU’s constitutional documents.

      BTW, you did good to explain how threadbare Msgr. Swetlands’ arguments are, rightly pointing out that he’s got nothing to fall back on but a hollow appeal to authority.

  14. KrazyKafir says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 10:41 am

    The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Seems appropriate here.

  15. Angemon says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 10:42 am

    Msgr. Swetland worries that Spencer’s interpretation will drive moderate Muslims into the arms of the radicals.

    I believe Msgr. Swetland is grossly overestimating Mr. Spencer’s influence – I find it hard to believe that a muslim looking for info on islam would go use a non-muslim as an authoritative source. “Well, this catholic scholar says that islam has a doctrine of warfare against non-believers, so I’m going to join ISIS”. No, if that was the case, and considering how all sort of leaders in the West are parroting the “islam is a religion of peace” mantra, there should be no islamic terrorism anywhere in the planet.

    • Raja says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 11:01 am

      Angemon,

      You are very logical and you reason well. By the way, William Kilpatrick presented three part article on Catholic strategy viz a viz Islam some 8 months back (in JW) and that was a kind of torch bearer for all the Catholic world; pope included. Wish I had the link readily available.

      Your comment is not off the mark anyhow.

      • JAR says

        Aug 16, 2016 at 8:09 pm

        Here’s the link, Raja:

        https://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/06/william-kilpatrick-needed-a-new-church-policy-toward-islam-pt-3?doing_wp_cron=1471392469.3698410987854003906250

    • gravenimage says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 2:11 pm

      Exactly–the whole idea that Robert Spencer’s noting that Islam is violent will drive Muslims to “extremism” is absurd.

      After all, having dhimmis like Swetland natter on about Islam being “a religion of peace” has not stopped violent Jihad.

    • Poor Knight for Christ says

      Aug 17, 2016 at 4:17 pm

      I agree.

      Islam is using all the unopposed killings as recruitment, not what some scholar said or didn’t say about Islam’s true teachings.

      I pray for the reconvening of the Templar.

  16. Jay Boo says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 10:46 am

    ” … For one thing, the Muslim Jesus makes his appearance in the Koran for no other purpose than to refute everything that Jesus of Nazareth says about himself. ”

    That’s right.
    No other purpose but as a stepping stone for a spiritually bankrupt and suicidal buffoon posing as a prophet.

    • Kay says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 11:13 am

      Yes.

      Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ
      (i.e. the Messiah, the Anointed)?
      This is the antichrist [the enemy and antagonist of Christ], the one who denies and consistently refuses to acknowledge the Father and the Son.

    • gravenimage says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 2:19 pm

      Yes–the Muslim “Jesus” is not only not the Savior, he is not a healer or a peacemaker, either–this main role in the “Last Days” is to *kill Christians”.

      • Kay says

        Aug 16, 2016 at 2:45 pm

        That might be why we are promised that we will recognize (the true) Jesus’ voice.
        And reminded that perfect love casts out fear.

    • billybob says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 11:08 pm

      And there is this thing, not mentioned in the article, about Islam being an “Abrahamic religion” just like Christianity. Islam is no more Abrahamic than I am, and I am not at all. When we say a religion is Abrahamic , we are implying that it has descended down the line of prophets since Abraham, finally culminating in Muhammad, the Seal of The Prophets. Problem with that is, that Muhammad made it all up. There was no Islam that descended down the millennia like Judaism.

      Islam just sprang up there in the middle of the desert out of nowhere. It did plagiarize enough passages from existing texts to give it a thin veneer to hide it’s lack of substance, but that doesn’t mean it descended from those texts. There were no Muslims before Muhammad to whom he appeared as the promised prophet. There were only pagans. Islam sprang from the pagan Moon God, whose symbol, the crescent moon, adorns Mosques to this very day. Beyond that, Muslims still worship the Kaaba as they did before as pagans before Muhammad.

      These Catholic scholars must know all this better than I, and it is outrageous they pretend Islam is on the same level as Christianity. It’s not even a religion at all. It is just a cult to support a vile, oppressive, supremacist political ideology, all designed to serve Muhammad’s thirst for conquest. It deserves no respect whatsoever!

  17. CogitoErgoSum says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 11:04 am

    Islam is the religion of SUBMISSION. The peace which Islam offers comes through submission to Allah and acceptance of the words of the Quran. The Quran states that Jesus is NOT the Son of God. Under Islam those who believe that Jesus IS the Son of God are considered polytheists. Polytheists are not loved by Allah and their religion is unacceptable to Allah. The Pope would be foremost among those who are unloved by Allah due to the practice of an unacceptable religion and the Pope would be a leading example of those whom Allah considers the “most vile of creatures.”

    To accept the peace offered by Islam is to accept the superiority of Islam over all other religions. I refuse to accept that Islam is superior to Christianity and if that places me at odds with the man who currently holds the position of Pope, so be it. Let Christ be my final judge.

  18. vlparker says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 11:06 am

    Swetland: “My main purpose in having a discussion with Robert Spencer, a Catholic, on a Catholic radio network was to show clearly that his positions on Islam were at odds with Catholic teaching.”

    At odds with Catholic teaching, but true, nonetheless, dhimmi dummy.

    • gravenimage says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 2:26 pm

      Catholic teaching for hundreds of years was that Islam was *anything* but a “religion of peace”.

      • Mark Swan says

        Aug 18, 2016 at 3:09 am

        Yes and it is still the truth.

        • Cecilia Ellis says

          Aug 18, 2016 at 3:29 am

          Exactly, Mark and Graven!

  19. Musalmaanmasalazed says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 11:10 am

    I think it was Goebbels who said “A lie repeated often enough after sometime comes to look like the truth”. This is what seems to be happening.
    The muslims have been promoting the slogan of “Islam being a “religion” of peace” not only from the minarets but from each and every forum where they can be heard from.
    A building is bombed, a riot organized or children and women kidnapped and raped and the very next day as the world gasps in horror, a maulana or a kazi or a haji somewhere will come out with “Islam is a religion of peace and those who did this “are not muslims”.
    And the fools, jokers and charlattans who are in authority in the West instead of asking who the k are they they then immediately nod their heads in agreement.

  20. Robert Elliott says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 11:16 am

    The defence of Islam by Christians seems incomprehensible, but I have a theory that their motivation is inspired by a mentality of ” them versus us”. By that I mean in an increasingly non-religious world, with Christian church attendances in freefall, perversely they see anyone who is staunchly religious and practices a faith – ANY faith, including Islam – is somehow an ally in the fight to keep the world’s peoples religious and non-secular.

    But in doing so, they must be wilfully blind to some very unpalatable truths. The first is that Islam totally rejects Christianity in any form as a blasphemy, an abomination. There is only one God, Allah, and as he had no children Jesus WAS not divine, or the son of God. Muslims and Christians claim a common ground in that they both venerate Jesus – except that, in Islam, Jesus is actually called ISA, is human, and is a MUSLIM prophet, like Muhammad. Islam teaches that this “Isa” was NOT crucified, thus destroying one of the main cornerstones of Christianity.

    But there is worse to come; both religions believe that Jesus/Isa will return to Earth at “the end of days”, but in Islam he will return not as the saviour of Christian mankind, but as a RADICAL MUSLIM who will “break crosses” – wipe out Christianity – and enforce Islam throughout the world as the only religion. When this is done, he will die and be buried next to Muhammad in Saudi Arabia.

    Religious solidarity anyone?

  21. Raja says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 11:16 am

    Pope is an useful idiot for the terrorists/Jihadis. He is an enabler in the hegemony of Islam but if and when they slaughter pope they would celebrate his death all the more as he is considered to be evil by Islamist.(My junior attorney a Muslim, who has not taken to any violence claimed that pope was the biggest evil on the face of the earth. Such is the doctrine of Islam)

    To suit their propaganda, the Islamist will also launch an attack on pope calling him blasphemous-when the time is appropriate.

    Whichever way you look at pope he is a sitting duck.

  22. Jay Boo says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 11:33 am

    Muslim Friends

    What an oxymoron.

  23. bradley oleary says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 11:42 am

    I had 8 yrs of Jesuit training. I dont believe they are peaceful and they segregate woman,deny the equall rights and try to sexually blind them. I have taught my 6 daughters and 5 female grandchildren that sharia law is against Gods word and the American Constitution.

    • gravenimage says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 2:27 pm

      Good for you, Bradley.

      • Mark Swan says

        Aug 18, 2016 at 3:14 am

        Absolutely bradley oleary

  24. John spielman says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 11:46 am

    if only P(D)ope Francis and his shill Swetland would read the Bible especially the epistle of John in the Bible, he would understand that islam is an antichrist doctrine that denies that Jesus IS the only Son of God and that by doing so muslims have separated themselves from God for ” who ever does not have the Son does not have the Father”.

    Further more St Paul warned against any one who brings a different gospel than the one he and the other apostles received directly from Christ Jesus for they are cursed!, because Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light ( so muhammed listened to Satan masquerading as Gabriel, an angel of God)

  25. mortimer says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 12:04 pm

    Disagree with Kilpatrick on this: “At least in the area of morals, Robert seems to be a dissenter from the papal magisterium.”

    No. Robert Spencer disagrees that the Pope has the right and competence to DEFINE what Islam is.

    • John C. Barile says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 2:33 pm

      I thought Kilpatrick said that tongue-in-cheek, as he surely knows that isn’t so. It’s ironic, in any case. The enablers of Islamic advancement found within the Church themselves populate the front rank of moral dissenters

  26. JC says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 12:23 pm

    Another Catholic priest who actually gets it.

    http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=adf1a83154acea60d091b413c&id=0118f096f6&e=71ce4607d5

    • gravenimage says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 2:28 pm

      Thank you for that, JC.

    • Kay says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 2:50 pm

      Yes, thank you.

  27. Wellington says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 12:35 pm

    Profound and bitter irony can be found in the clearly erroneous pronouncements about Islam by Catholic clergy like Monsignor Swetland and Pope Francis whereby they are doing more harm to Catholicism than Islam ever could. This agnostic recognizes the need for an enlightened and tough Catholicism which serves as a bulwark against evil. Not happening now. Damn shame because Islam is the longest-lived and best disguised form of evil ever created by man.

    • John C. Barile says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 2:36 pm

      Wellington, I think you are a naturally religious, moral man. Kinda like the proverbial Just Pagan

      • Wellington says

        Aug 16, 2016 at 3:21 pm

        Thanks for that, John C. Barlie. A conviction of mine, which I have stated before at JW, is that Judaism and Christianity are the two religions that place the greatest emphasis on the dignity and worth of the individual and thus work most smoothly with democratic principles. It is the Judeo-Christian ethic that I find enlightened and the reason why I support these two religions. Of course by contrast, and as I know you know, Islam’s ethic is hideous. It is one replete with barbaric elements and is a guarantee against true democracy ever being implemented. It will forever be an enemy of mine.

  28. Rich says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 2:36 pm

    Mr. Kilpatrick is a brilliant mind and I respect him tremendously. He is one of the few Catholic intellects worth listening to these days. And he makes many very good points in this article. However, in my opinion, he gives Pope Francis and those of his ‘Islamophile’ ilk too much of the benefit of the doubt when he says that they are acting out of “sheer naiveté”. I don’t believe that they are merely “naive” because I don’t believe that their ignorance is either inculpable or invincible. The Pope is not merely “naive”. He is willfully blind to the truth.

    Pope Francis is clearly another “Social Justice Catholic” who simply doesn’t pray enough. If he were truly a man of prayer, in love with Our Lord in the Holy Eucharist, devoted to Our Lady, and a regular to Sacramental Confession, he would have the “sixth sense” (grace) to realize the truth about Islam. Islam is and always has been antithetical theologically to Christian faith and it is and always has been at war with the Catholic Church. Anyone who can’t see that is woefully ignorant of Islam and of history and blind to the patent truth.

    Forgive my presumption, but Pope Francis, like so many “Social Justice Catholics”, simply is not holy enough to see the truth. There I said it. And make no mistake, the “ability” (grace really) to “see the truth” is directly related to a person’s purity of intention and personal holiness. There I said that too. Read [Catholic scholar] Gilbert Meilaender’s “The Theory and Practice of Virtue”and Alasdair McIntyre’s “After Virtue” and this conclusion will become clear to you too. To SEE the truth requires that you BE a person of a particular kind; namely, a virtuous one, a holy one even.

    So I am merely applying a little deductive reasoning to the Pope’s situation. We start with the fact that Islam is obviously evil, antithetical to Christian faith, and at war with the Catholic Church. This truth is evident for anyone “with eyes to see”. Second, Pope Francis does not see this truth. So I conclude that Pope Francis has, through a lack of personal holiness, been “blinded” to the truth. And what causes this kind of embarrassing “blindness” is a lack of personal holiness. Therefore, that is what I conclude about Pope Francis. His devotion to “Social Justice” causes and theological innovations at the expense of time spent on his knees before the Blessed Sacrament has blinded him to the obvious truth that Islam is evil and pernicious and always has been.

    My point to Mr. Kilpatrick is simply that to say the pope is merely “naive” doesn’t quite get it. He’s a lot more than “naive”. He is ignorant. And his ignorance is both culpable and vincible. And so he is at fault for his ignorance of Islam. And that’s why he is contemned by so many real Catholics. You know, the kind who pray and love Our Lord in the Eucharist and go to Confession regularly and don’t contracept. Yeah, those Catholics.

    When someone is not capable of seeing a truth which is staring him right in the face, in my experience, they simply need to get to Confession, make a sincere and ruthless confession to the priest and begin again in the ascetic struggle. Then, a few sincere rosaries and a couple hours of mental prayer before Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament and…Voila! They are “magically” made capable of seeing what to everyone else was obvious from the beginning. Of course Islam is evil and pernicious. Only a willfully blind “Social Justice Catholic” could fail to see that. Less complicated than it looks, folks. St. Thomas spoke eloquently of this exact problem in his treatment of Prudence in the Secunda Secundam of the Summa. Like the Pharisees who could not “see” God in the Flesh standing right in front of them, Pope Francis is not merely “naive”; he is willfully blind to the truth.

  29. c matt says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 2:49 pm

    A Vatican official recently confirmed that Nostra Aetate is not binding (think it was in the context of talks with the SSPX).

    he would have the “sixth sense” (grace) to realize the truth about Islam.

    Heck, any one of the other five sense could figure it out.

  30. Rosewood11 says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 3:08 pm

    Spencer:: “if Monsignor Swetland is correct, then Catholics must affirm that Islam is a religion of peace…and the Catholic Church will be requiring that its faithful affirm the truth of what is an obvious and egregious falsehood.”

    When I was attending a counseling group some years ago, we used to refer to this type of bi-polar logic as “crazy-making.” My parish actually sold their old school building to the Gulen movement. Does that ring any bells for anyone!?! Their students, whose counterparts are currently being rounded up as revolutionaries following the coup attempt in Turkey, are about 200 feet from the front door of our church!!! When the “day of jihad” is declared, they won’t have far to come before detonating themselves!!! Since we’ll both be approaching the Pearly Gates at the same time, I guess that means that, once again, God’s going to have to do the sorting!!!

    I will also say again what I’ve been saying for years: If Catholics are required to believe the “Magisterium,” I want to know who they are. I want names. These men are constantly at odds with each other’s statements, and once again we are back to “crazy-making.” Joe Sixpack in the pew is supposed to be able to trust and follow these people. Sadly, I am finding that I’m not always certain of which “spirit” it is to whom they are giving utterance. Whether I stay or leave the Catholic Church again is entirely up for grabs.

    • Kay says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 4:36 pm

      every spirit that does not confess Jesus [acknowledging that He has come in the flesh, but would deny any of the Son’s true nature] is not of God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming, and is now already in the world. 4 Little children (believers, dear ones), you are of God and you belong to Him and have [already] overcome them [the agents of the antichrist]; because He who is in you is greater than he (Satan) who is in the world [of sinful mankind].

      • Mark Swan says

        Aug 18, 2016 at 3:24 am

        Thank You Kay for writing this—I would like to add something to further clarify this.

        Jesus said: “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him” (John 14:23). Through the Holy Spirit, Christ and the Father actually live within the truly converted Christian, guiding them, inspiring them and empowering them to keep the commandments and live God’s way of life! The Apostle Paul was also inspired to make this very plain when he wrote: “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me” (Galatians 2:20, KJV). That is the “key.” Through the Spirit, Christ will literally live His life in our human flesh! He will give us the strength to obey God’s commandments! Religious opponents challenge the real Christian by saying: “You can’t keep the Ten Commandments! They are spiritual and you are only physical.” But one who is led by God’s Holy Spirit may truly reply: “You are right. In my own human strength, I can’t. But to the degree I yield to God’s Holy Spirit, I can and I will keep God’s commandments! Christ within me helps me not to kill, steal, lie, commit adultery, covet, dishonor my parents, break God’s Sabbath, practice idolatry, take God’s name in vain or have another ‘god’ before the true God. I may slip in some point occasionally, but I will then repent and confess my sin to God and have His forgiveness (1 John 1:8–9). Then I get back on God’s path and, through His Spirit, grow in grace and knowledge. I am not perfect. But, through Christ living His life within me, I am growing toward perfection and walking in God’s law as my basic way of life.”

        The doctrine of Antichrist, then, is that Christ does not literally live His life within His people today! It is the false teaching that Christians today can live a different kind of life from what Jesus lived and still be His true followers. It often includes the idea that Christ was righteous in our stead, and therefore we do not have to be. We just accept Him and His righteousness is imputed to us. Effectively, God “kids Himself” and pretends that we are really righteous when we actually are not! This doctrine is a damnable lie! “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever” (Hebrews 13:8). He will live the same kind of life in you and me today that He lived nearly 2,000 years ago when He walked this earth in the human flesh. At that time, He continually taught obedience to all of God’s commandments (Matthew 5:19). We have seen His answer to the young man asking Him how to inherit eternal life: “Keep the commandments” (19:17).

        Near the end of the Apostolic Age, God inspired the Apostle John to describe the true saints of God: “Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city” (Revelation 22:14). There are many, many false ministers today who are teaching the doctrine of Antichrist, a doctrine that sanctions disobedience to God’s commandments—a doctrine of “no works.” The Apostle Paul said of these ministers: “For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works” (2 Corinthians 11:13–15). You will notice here that Satan has ministers who appear to be righteous. Ironically, their end—their final reward—will be according to their “works,” the very thing they seek to deny! God intends for us to obey His commandments, do good works and live by His every word. Once you get this principle straight, you can clearly understand the “spirit of Antichrist” and how to test whether any religious leader’s idea or doctrine is of God! Then, by diligent study of God’s Word and by constant prayer, you will come to a deeper understanding of the real purpose of your life and experience closer contact with the Living God than you may ever have dreamed possible. You will come to see who truly is of God—His true Church, which has faithfully proclaimed the same Gospel He sent through Jesus Christ. In this end time, that Message—of obedience to God’s Kingdom and rule—is to be preached by His Church as a witness to all nations (Matthew 24:14). You are reading that Message this very instant! In Revelation 12:17, the true Church of God is described as a woman persecuted by the devil. This Church is a remnant. Its members are those “who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” Again, the true saints of God are described in like manner in Revelation 14:12: “Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.”

        Yes, Jesus Christ is to live and dwell within His people today through the Holy Spirit. To the degree they yield to Him, their lives will be ones of full and complete obedience, just as Jesus’ life was in the flesh. Their customs, their traditions, their way of life will be the same as His in every respect, because He does not change. And He will be living within them! Then Christ and the Father can be absolutely sure that their people are fully surrendered to God, who can continually impart to true Christians His very divine nature and character—and so prepare them to be kings and priests in the literal Kingdom of God soon to be set up on this earth. “And from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen” (Revelation 1:5–6). We need to Examine ourselves honestly. Have we really understood Christianity before? Is Christ really living His life in us? Do we have the spiritual “backbone” to act on the truth we have just reviewed?

        • John C. Barile says

          Aug 18, 2016 at 2:58 pm

          I don’t like antinomianism any more than you do, Mark.

    • Poor Knight for Christ says

      Aug 17, 2016 at 4:33 pm

      The Magisterium is the either 1) the consistent teaching of Christ’s one and only Church through out all of history 2) All the bishops, in union with the Pope or 3) The Pope speak Ex-cathedra, which means he defines as Catholic Dogma / Doctrine but it has to meet 3 criteria: 1) The subject matter is Faith and Morals; 2) He is speaking in official capacity as Pope 3) He is speaking to the Universal (whole, entire, Catholic Church).

      The Catholic Catechism is a very good place to start. Don’t be swayed by the anti-Catholics on this website who don’t know Catholic teaching and seek to “bring you out” of the only historically, biblically and logically verifiable Church Christ founded.

      We have ALWAYS had dissenting voices in the ranks. As a matter of fact, Christ promised us this would be a sign of His Church: tares among the wheat, bad fish among the good, bad ships caught up with the good.

      Recall, also, that our first Pope, Peter, denied knowing Jesus; Judas, one of our founding Bishops, betrayed him. All our founding Bishops, except John, did not have the courage to stand with Christ at His crucifixion.

      We’ve had weak Pope before: all popes sin (don’t let an anti-Catholic tell you that “infallibility” means sinlessness. It does not.) All popes can err in private, off-the-cuff remarks.

      But when you look at official, defined, teachings of the Catholic Church, they have NEVER contradicted, only deepened in understanding. THIS is what Bl. John Henry Newman saw when he converted from Protestantism; Through TRYING TO FIND CONTRADICTION in official Catholic teaching, is why former anti-Catholic and Pentacostal Youth Minister, Tim Staples, is now a professional Catholic apologist.

      Check out Catholic.com. And rest assured that the Gates of Hell will NEVER prevail over Christ’s Church – the Catholic Church.

  31. Dom107 says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 3:09 pm

    All religions including Islam and Catholicism have their own agenda and tell their followers big lies,obvious untruths like Hitler done. Followers are like sheep and follow.They don’t use their own brain and make their own decisions. if they downloaded a free electronic version of the Qur’an like I did they would be shocked from page one by the hate filled verses for Jews,Christians,Polytheists etc etc which goes on in such vein to the end.Has the Pope read this stuff ? He either hasn’t or chooses to ignore it.Either way he is not a man who deserves to be followed or taken seriously at all.
    Catholic like Muslims should wake up to the truth !!

    • Allan says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 4:49 pm

      Every religion has an “agenda”? How horrifying. Something must be done about it.

      Perhaps, then, you would introduce us to more of your ideas for repairing the world by publishing your list, plan, outline, or the like, of things to be done, matters to be acted or voted upon, and so forth. Take great care when divulging your
      specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices which are to be generally agreed upon, even if only tacitly, by all individuals and factions which see fit to adopt your plan to thwart the invidious agenda of every religion to spread “big lies”. The great awakening and the fate of this world depend upon you paying close attention to all relevant details.

      • Dom107 says

        Aug 17, 2016 at 6:42 am

        I detect a certain scepticism in your tone Allan ! Love it Allan! Don’t readily accept what anyone says without reliable EVIDENCE.Study a little Cosmology Allan and it should be apparent that our place in the Universe (even that can change if the Earth were to get knocked out of its orbit) is so small and physically insignificant that a God if one existed and wanted to be glorified would hardly choose smaller than microscopic creatures to do it.And by the way what an ego he would have if that as religions believe is the case
        No god means all the rest of the nonsense falls away from the argument and is merely human culture(What a catalogue of undesirable things that can cover).
        We have to some extent already agreed a set of ethics that most people agree with for the general benefit of the planet.Unfortunately with the rise of extreme Islam(meaning those who want to literally follow the Islamic books) and the foolishness of some of our so called spiritual and national rulers our liberties and way of life our openly threatened by those who would like to drag us back to dark and ignorant times.Those who should be protecting us seem to have their eyes closed and are even helping our enemies
        This last happened in the 1930s when Hitler aided by Islamic allies brought the world to global war with the resulting industrial scale destruction ,suffering and death.
        If the French had prevented Hitler from reoccupying the Rhineland he would have backed down as he wasn’t ready for war.Same goes for England over Czechoslovakia.It’s really quite simple appease the playground bully and he escalates his bad behaviour.
        This is what is happening now APPEASEMENT to a very barbaric,ignorant and highly dangerous religion.Allan,I cant solve all the world’s problems,no one can, but religions and other intolerant belief systems make things a lot worse than they need be.Secular,scientific atheistic , rationalism has allowed us to progress to a better world.Don’t let the mad,crazy world of religion drag us all back

        • Poor Knight for Christ says

          Aug 17, 2016 at 4:37 pm

          Huh. Was your post just a random accident with no author, mind or intelligence behind it at all?

          I’ve never seen a painting without a painter. I’ve never read a book without an author…

          There is a better chance that an explosion at a print shop will produce the works of William Shakespeare than the Universe coming to be without an intelligent cause.

  32. Allan says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 4:23 pm

    I hope that Michel Houellebecq is paying close attention to debates like these. It could provide inspiration for a thriller about the RCC’s clergy being infiltrated by its mortal enemies.

    For example, imagine a story about many hundreds of young Muslim men, all outwardly loyal Catholics, obtaining admission to seminaries throughout the world. Most of the Muslims, aided by the manipulations of secular humanists and sundry socialists, receive ordination and embark upon amazing careers. Of course, they listen closely to the secrets of the faithful. Many Catholic females are converted to Islam thanks to info which the cryptomuslims pass along to confidants, but no one makes the connection between the females’ departures and the double agents, who just happen to experience martyrdom at unusually high rates. The dbl agents also become very influential in Catholic elementary schools and secondary schools.

    Decades pass, and then one of Muslims, who are usually unknown to each other, becomes Pope. He is a Franciscan who takes the name Enecus in honor, he says, of St. Ignatius of Loyola. Conservatives are thrilled by his credible promise to heal the divisions which have been increasing within and among the religious congregations, orders, and so forth. One organization which stands out for its problems is Opus Dei, thanks to Mr. Houellebecq having encountered the novels of Dan Brown and deciding to work into his story some satire about authors who misrepresent the RCC. Pope Enecus, too, develops a lively interest in Opus Dei, which he believes will be a primary instrument of Allah’s will to break the cross.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opus_Dei#/media/File:The_seal_of_Opus_Dei.png

    • Dom107 says

      Aug 17, 2016 at 6:58 am

      Very good Allan!.Maybe someone will write a screenplay for it and you could end up a multimillionaire !
      The other possibility is you might lose your head under Sharia Law for blasphemy!

      • Allan says

        Aug 18, 2016 at 10:51 am

        Perhaps I should invent a pseudonym, a nom de keyboard, eh?

    • Poor Knight for Christ says

      Aug 17, 2016 at 4:37 pm

      You just described Spain during the Reconquista…

  33. Tonya Greipenweiner says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 4:41 pm

    Good Grief! Is Monsignor completely divorced from reality?

  34. Tonya Greipenweiner says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 5:03 pm

    I think I shouldn’t have listened to this effing shill for the most evil religion on the planet. I’m a convert to Catholicism. I didn’t convert to some squishy kumbaya feelz religion. I converted because I’d read the Church Fathers in regards to Islam. It is clear that this man is a quisling to his own faith. I need to go scream at something. I don’t have a cat. Damn.

    • linnte says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 8:28 pm

      Try the Neanderthal scream into a pillow. I am as FRUSTRATED as you! Upon this Rock I will build my Church! HOW CAN the Pope Ignore THAT?

    • linnte says

      Aug 16, 2016 at 8:30 pm

      And I wish I had not listened too. It has effected my sleep- tossing and turning thinking that the Church where ALL churches have come from, is NUTS!

      • Poor Knight for Christ says

        Aug 17, 2016 at 4:39 pm

        She is not. Some MEMBERS may be. But rest assured that the Catholic Church is the Rock, and the Gates of Hell will never prevail against her.

        It may SEEM like it, quite regularly, but look at history. Look at Scripture. Look at the authentic teachings of Catholicism – not what the anti-Catholics here want you to believe – and rest easy.

  35. Mockingjay says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 7:36 pm

    “Still, high IQ and common sense don’t always go together”.

    No. But high IQ and (intelectual) arrogance often do.

    Msgr. Swetland obviously hasn’t the slightest clue about islam, but still is convinced his judgement of it is sound.

    He clearly greatly overestimates himself, and at the same time, greatly underestimates the intelligence – or even literacy – of other Catholics who disagree with what he perceives as the truth.

    I find that very offensive.

    Someone should tell him that we’re not in the dark ages anymore.

  36. will Rodgers says

    Aug 16, 2016 at 8:02 pm

    Well the Pope embraced Hitler, Why the surprise this new pope would not embrace islam. It is prophesied that the renewal of the Holy Roman Empire today is the seventh rise of the evil Roman empire. Mother Church has been complicit since it joined hands with the politics of the Roman Empire As foretold in the Book of Daniel.

    • Poor Knight for Christ says

      Aug 17, 2016 at 4:42 pm

      No he didn’t. Read: “The Myth of Hitler’s Pope” written by a faithful Jew.

      People got to stop lying about the Catholic Church. We can disagree whether or not the authentic, full teachings of Catholicism are right or not, but to continue to trot out these well documented as false, old canards is really out of bounds.

  37. shocked says

    Aug 17, 2016 at 4:21 am

    Nothing shocks me about religion in general and Islam in particular but I must admit I was rather shocked to find out that Robert Spencer was actually a religious man. After everything he practically devoted his life to, he was still a believer in undead space zombies sent from the sky by themselves actually and all that nonsense. I truly despair when I find out that even some very intelligent and highly articulate individuals who devote their lives to fighting against superstitions and stupidity are in fact believers in some other set of superstitions and stupidity.

    It was truly amazing to me.

  38. Isabellathecrusader says

    Aug 17, 2016 at 8:18 am

    St. Francis of Assisi had this to say about the end times which many people believe we are now living in:

    The Prophecy of Saint Francis of Assisi

    “There will be an uncanonically elected pope who will cause a great Schism, there will be diverse thoughts preached which will cause many, even those in the different orders to doubt, yea, even agree with those heretics which will cause my Order to divide, then will there be such universal dissension and persecutions that if those days were not shortened even the elect would be lost.” (source: The Reign of Antichrist by Rev. R. Gerald Culleton)

    Shortly before he died, St. Francis of Assisi called together his followers and warned them of the coming trials saying:

    1. The time is fast approaching in which there will be great trials and afflictions; perplexities and dissensions, both spiritual and temporal, will abound; the charity of many will grow cold, and the malice of the wicked will increase.

    2. The devils will have unusual power, the immaculate purity of our Order, and of others, will be so much obscured that there will be very few Christians who will obey the true Sovereign Pontiff and the Roman Church with loyal hearts and perfect charity. At the time of this tribulation a man, not canonically elected, will be raised to the Pontificate, who, by his cunning, will endeavour to draw many into error and death.

    3. Then scandals will be multiplied, our Order will be divided, and many others will be entirely destroyed, because they will consent to error instead of opposing it.

    4. There will be such diversity of opinions and schisms among the people, the religious and the clergy, that, except those days were shortened, according to the words of the Gospel, even the elect would be led into error, were they not specially guided, amid such great confusion, by the immense mercy of God.

    5. Then our Rule and manner of life will be violently opposed by some, and terrible trials will come upon us. Those who are found faithful will receive the crown of life; but woe to those who, trusting solely in their Order, shall fall into tepidity, for they will not be able to support the temptations permitted for the proving of the elect.

    6. Those who preserve in their fervour and adhere to virtue with love and zeal for the truth, will suffer injuries and, persecutions as rebels and schismatics; for their persecutors, urged on by the evil spirits, will say they are rendering a great service to God by destroying such pestilent men from the face of the earth. but the Lord will be the refuge of the afflicted, and will save all who trust in Him. And in order to be like their Head, [Christ] these, the elect, will act with confidence, and by their death will purchase for themselves eternal life; choosing to obey God rather than man, they will fear nothing, and they will prefer to perish rather than consent to falsehood and perfidy.

    7. Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it under foot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days JESUS CHRIST WILL SEND THEM NOT A TRUE PASTOR, BUT A DESTROYER.”
    (source: Works of the Seraphic Father St. Francis Of Assisi, Washbourne, 1882)

  39. Isabellathecrusader says

    Aug 17, 2016 at 8:47 am

    This is really par for the course. Catholic clergy haven’t acted Catholic since the 1970’s. But then this was all part of the plan. They don’t call the mass that came about as a result of changes made during Vatican II the “Novus Order” or New Order for nothing.

    The changes in the Church were designed to destroy the faith of Catholics throughout the world and it has worked beautifully. Msgr. Swetland is a product of that design. For an intelligent man, it is curious that he seems blissfully unaware of the battles with Islam in the past that took place between Muslims and many famous Catholics. Since we know that Islam never went through a Reformation how is it that Msgr.Swetland doesn’t know his church history. Hmmm…maybe he went to public school.

  40. joey wysocki says

    Aug 17, 2016 at 10:11 am

    We already know this in America, we call them uninformed voters, hypocrites, they say they are Christion but support abortion and vote for individuals who support it so they can receive their slice of free cheese. This a sad group of ignorant voters that will never get it. That is all

  41. Paul Clark says

    Aug 17, 2016 at 10:31 am

    The Catholics were apologist for the Nazis too. It seems when it comes to killing Jews the Catholics are always on board. If a Catholic does not immediately know that Islam is demonically evil than he or she is and has never been a Christian. The Catholic Church shame Christianity and Redemption. While their Islamic co-conspirators destroy the “bride” of Jesus, the Catholic Church excuses and indirectly supports the murder . It appears to be the Catholic Church being a theocratic religion has much more in common with Islam. Neither want to give anyone a choice. Thank God for Martin Luther and the Reformers.

    Paul Clark

    • Isabellathecrusader says

      Aug 17, 2016 at 12:47 pm

      Really Paul? Which Catholics were apologists for the Nazis?

    • Cecilia Ellis says

      Aug 17, 2016 at 1:27 pm

      Paul, was Fr. Maximilian Kolbe an apologist for Nazis?

      • Isabellathecrusader says

        Aug 17, 2016 at 10:23 pm

        Thank you Cecilia. Exactly. Or Edith Stein. Or Fr. Hugh O’Flaherty, Or the Heroes of the Holocaust, all those little Catholic towns in Italy, France, Belgium, Poland and other European countries who hid Jews, who pretended that the little Jewish kids they took in their homes were cousins or nieces and nephews who were visiting and who Yad Vashem honored as Righteous among the Gentiles. Paul can look it up under “Heroes of the Holocaust”.

        • Cecilia Ellis says

          Aug 17, 2016 at 10:32 pm

          Isabella, thank you for your reply. I, like you, immediately thought of Edith Stein, as well as Padre Ruffino Niccacci, who orchestrated the hiding of 300 Jews in Assisi monasteries and convents, at the peril of immediate death. Assisi did not lose one Jew, thanks to Catholics.

  42. Florida Jim says

    Aug 17, 2016 at 10:36 am

    Facts belie that message “muslims are peaceful” muslims await in each nation the time to begin the jihad and take over ass they did in Africa, England, France, Holland, Malaysia, Philippines and Dearborn, Michigan wherever they go/

  43. RAB says

    Aug 17, 2016 at 11:23 am

    Robert and Msgr. Swetland aren’t even on the same page. The well-meaning but simple-minded or willfully ignorant priest is talking about the nice friendly two-legged Muslims he has met in his career, whereas Robert is talking about what he knows best and can prove by direct quotes from the Koran and the Sunnah: the inherent violence and intolerance of Islam. This is an obvious conclusion to anyone familiar with the glaring evidence who is not blinded by political correctness or fear of Islamic retaliation. The dots are all there. All you have to do is connect them.

  44. Dr, Gonzalo de Porras y Rodriguez says

    Aug 17, 2016 at 12:42 pm

    Specified that disagreeing with the views of the Pope or any bishop in matters having no relation to the dogma, is not to be against Catholic doctrine but disagreeing with men who express ideas that do not concern the faith we profess Catholics . Personally I disagree with the ideas of Francis I and many other Catholic bishops when they say that (sic) “Islam is a religion of peace” or “all religions seek peace.” I add that continually, both in word and in writing, I am attacking the terrible mistake of Francis I who clings to his false opinions. While not touch the Catholic dogma everything will go well, what happens is that most Catholics can not distinguish between opinions and beliefs. Francisco I think the Koran should be read

  45. le Mouron rouge says

    Aug 17, 2016 at 2:45 pm

    Disclaimer: This is a copy of my comments on the original article Dated: August 11, 2016, the Radio Debate between Robert Spencer and Msgr, Swetland

    Typical Roman Catholic double speak.

    Msgr. Swetland’s statement that Islam is a religion of peace and that Christians, Jews and Muslims worship the same God because the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) says so is an insult to one’s intelligence.

    The support for his theory, that the “Papacy and the Magisterium” of the RCC are endowed by the “Holy Spirit” with special insight that no one outside the RCC could have is absurd at best.

    When one pulls back the curtain as in “The Wizard of Oz”, one learns as Dorothy and her companions discovered that all is not as it seems. The “Wizard of Oz” turned out to be a mere mortal, an imperfect and fallible human being as is the “Papacy and the Magisterium.”

    A cursory look at the Life and Times of Muhammad, the so called founder of Islam presents a very different scenario than the one presented by Msgr. Swetland and the RCC.

    Basically, Muhammad was a liar, a thief, a bandit and a murderer. His life is the exact opposite of what the Bible teaches, which begs the question, “How can Christians, Jews and Muslims worship the same God?”

    An example of Muhammad being a liar and a thief is the story of his adopted son, Zayd and Zayd’s wife, Zaynab. http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Menj/zaynab.htm

    Muhammad lusted (coveted – 10th Commandment) after Zaynab (Adultery – 5th Commandment) and stole her (Stealing – 8th Commandment) from his adopted son, then, miraculously the Angel Gabriel came to Muhammad with a new saying which condoned Muhammad’s stealing the wife of another man. (Lie – The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob calls that an Abomination)

    “Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning.”
    Albert Einstein

  46. Lynda says

    Aug 17, 2016 at 4:28 pm

    There is a blindness in persons who represent Swetland’s way of thinking. I don’t understand it in the face of textual, historical and current truth.

    Joseph Kenny OP was also a scholar on Islam. He read Pope John Paul II etc as speaking to Muslims in light of their natural good….natural law not Islam gave rise to the favourable interpretation of those ‘who profess’ (which is not the same as ‘hold’) the truth about God.

    More distinctions need to be made.

    Pope Francis is wrong and in the same mindset as Swetland.

    I noticed a quick comment by Swetland that might have been missed…that while at Oxford he considered Islam a religion he might enter? (Did anyone else get that?). I wonder if his thoughts on Islam are not more affection than realist?

    • le Mouron rouge says

      Aug 18, 2016 at 11:01 am

      Hi Lynda,

      The blindness you are referring to is the ramping up of evil in the last days. This is a spiritual blindness that we are witnessing on a Global scale. This is a Cosmic Chess Match of move and counter move.

      Please read: 2 Timothy Chapter 3 and Romans Chapter 1.

      As Bible believing Christians we know the end of the story as foretold in the book of Revelation.

      Jer 29:11: For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

      Josh 1:9: Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be terrified; do not be discouraged, for the LORD your God will be with you wherever you go.”

      Keep Looking Up.

  47. Paul Clark says

    Aug 17, 2016 at 5:37 pm

    Issabellathecrusader, you need to read your history of Pre and Post WW11. It is not hard. The internet is loaded with credible and valid stories of Catholics helping, directly or indirectly, the success of Hitler and the murdering of Jews. All they had to do is look away and away they looked. Although I am a Protestant, I want to be fair, present Protestants are just as cowardly and as apathetic as the Catholics. Both disgust me,especially that ignorant, socialist Pope.

    • Peggy says

      Aug 17, 2016 at 10:06 pm

      Actually Croatians were the only people to have a concentration camp just for children in WW2 and that was run by Catholic clergy.
      The extermination of Jews, Serbs and Roma in Croatia in a concentration camp called Jasenovac was in hundreds of thousands and some clergy even participated in the killings.

      Here is an article about it.

      http://www.christiantoday.com/article/the.wound.of.jasenovac.and.a.plea.to.pope.francis/33963.htm

      This is well documented as well so some Popes have turned a blind eye to others’ suffering but this one is the worst. He is turning a blind eye to the suffering of Catholics as well.

    • Isabellathecrusader says

      Aug 18, 2016 at 9:47 pm

      ‘Sorry Paul but you can’t drop a bomb like the one you did yesterday and expect to get away with it. You’re the one that made the accusation. Now prove it. It’s simply Protestant wishful thinking.

  48. Peggy says

    Aug 17, 2016 at 9:20 pm

    Or, anyway, that’s how it ought to read according to Monsignor Stuart Swetland, President of Donnelly College in Kansas City. No, Msgr. Swetland didn’t actually propose a revision to the Apostles’ Creed, but he does seem to be saying that Catholics have a religious obligation to affirm that Islam is a religion of peace
    ————————————

    Religious obligation? Which scriptures say that? Christianity predates Islam so how could there be anything in the scriptures telling Christians to affirm that Islam is a religion of peace?
    Is the Pope adding something?

  49. Lionel Andrades says

    Aug 18, 2016 at 7:54 am

    Mohammad in Vatican Council II
    St.Alphonsus Ligouri said Mohammad is in Hell, like other Muslims. The saints and popes said the same.Vatican Council II also says all need faith and baptism for salvation and all need to enter the Church as through a door(AG 7).Mohammad did not have Catholic faith and neither was he baptized with water.

    Being saved with the baptism of water and Catholic faith is the ordinary means of salvation.In general all Muslims need to be visible members of the Church for salvation.

    We cannot say that he was saved with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance since even if there was such a case , God could send a preacher to baptise the person in ignorance. So every one who enters Heaven is Catholic with Catholic faith and the baptism of water.

    Being saved with the baptism of desire etc is a possibility known only to God. There is no such case known to us.Neither can be expect to know, any such case in the present times.

    So we cannot meet anyone in the present times who will be saved with the baptism of desire or invincible ignorance. Since the ordinary means of salvation is visible entry into the Catholic Church (with faith and baptism of water) and there are no cases of the baptism of desire etc for us, in 2013.

    We cannot say that Mohammad was saved in invincible ignorance since the only means to go to Heaven is the baptism of water given to adults with Catholic Faith.He was also not ignorant of the Catholic Faith.

    The Koran shows that Mohammad knew about Jesus and the Church and yet choose not to enter. Vatican Council II (LG 14) says those who know about the Church and its necessity for salvation but do not enter, are oriented to Hell.
    Vatican Council II (AG 7) is placed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church under the title outside the church no salvation.

    AG 7 is in agreement with the defined dogma extra eclesiam nulla salus based on John 3: 5 and Mark 16:16.

    There are no known exceptions mentioned in Vatican Council II to AG 7 or the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.In the present times we do not know anyone saved through good and holy things in their religion (NA2) , seeds of the word , invincible ignorance or a good conscience (LG 16) . So these cases are not exceptions to all needing to convert into the Church through faith and baptism ; all needing to be visible members of the Catholic Church to go to Heaven and avoid Hell(for salvation).

    Vatican Council II agrees with the popes and saints in saying Mohammad is in Hell. The official teaching of the Catholic Church,acccording to magisterial documents , before and after Vatican Council II, and including Vatican Council II, have not changed.

    Islam is not a path to salvation.(CDF,Notification, Jacques Dupuis S.J, Dominus Iesus 20, Vatican Council II ,AG 7,LG 14).Muslims need to visibly convert into the Church to avoid Hell.(CCC 845,846, Ecclesia di Eucharistia, Cantate Domino , Council of Florence 1441, extra ecclesiam nulla salus).

    The founder of Islam, a religion which has good and holy things in it and politically is one of the ‘great religions’ like Judaism, was oriented to Hell.

    This is a truth of the Catholic Church which still teaches exclusive salvation.Since there are no known cases of Muslims or other non Catholics saved, outside the Church, there is no basis for a theology of religions or a new ecclesiology. Catholic ecclesiology is still ecclesiocentric, based on Vatican Council II (LG 14,AG 7). There is exclusive salvation in only the Catholic Church according to Vatican Council II,which does not mention any exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus or to AG 7 (all need faith and baptism for salvation).
    We need Catholic Mission based on Vatican Council II. This is not just a personal view. Cardinal Angelo Amato in an interview with Avvenire,Italy called for mission based on Vatican Council II which for him is missionary. He specifically mentioned LG 14 and AG 7.
    -Lionel Andrades

    Vatican Council II and Islam : two interpretations http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/09/vatican-council-ii-and-islam-two.html#links

    USCCB Doctrinal Committee on Islam : confusion over exceptions

    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/09/usccb-doctrinal-committee-on-islam.html#links
    http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/09/mohammad-in-vatican-council-ii.html

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