“We have to understand that totalitarianism based on Islamic creed is the worst among all systems of government. Yes, my friends, the very survival of Christians in the cradle of Christianity is quite in danger.”
Yet the West is silent. Why? Why are Church leaders in the West so uniformly silent about the Muslim persecution of Christians? Jean-Clément Jeanbart, the Melkite Greek Catholic Archbishop of Aleppo, gave an interview to a French reporter in which he was highly critical of the mainstream media and even of his fellow bishops for ignoring the Muslim persecution of Middle Eastern Christians. “The European media,” he charged, “have not ceased to suppress the daily news of those who are suffering in Syria and they have even justified what is happening in our country by using information without taking the trouble to verify it.” And as for his brother bishops in France, “the conference of French bishops should have trusted us, it would have been better informed. Why are your bishops silent on a threat that is yours today as well? Because the bishops are like you, raised in political correctness. But Jesus was never politically correct, he was politically just!”
Archbishop Jeanbart was not the first to say this. “Why, we ask the western world, why not raise one’s voice over so much ferocity and injustice?” asked Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco, the head of the Italian Bishops Conference (CEI). Syriac Catholic Patriarch Ignatius Ephrem Joseph III Younan himself has in the past appealed to the West “not to forget the Christians in the Middle East.” The Melkite Greek Catholic Patriarch Gregory III has also said: “I do not understand why the world does not raise its voice against such acts of brutality.”
But the Patriarch should have understood, since he is a major part of the problem. After all, he recently said: “No one defends Islam like Arab Christians.” It is to defend Islam that Western clerics do not raise their voice against such acts of brutality. It is to pursue a fruitless and chimerical “dialogue” that bishops in the U.S. and Europe keep silent about Muslim persecution of Christians, and enforce that silence upon others. Robert McManus, Roman Catholic Bishop of Worcester, Massachusetts, said it on February 8, 2013 as he was suppressing a planned talk at a Catholic conference on that persecution: “Talk about extreme, militant Islamists and the atrocities that they have perpetrated globally might undercut the positive achievements that we Catholics have attained in our inter-religious dialogue with devout Muslims.”
Remember that Mohamed Atta, about the plane he had hijacked on September 11, 2001, told passengers over the intercom: “Stay quiet and you’ll be OK.” The Catholic Church appears to have adopted that statement as its policy regarding Muslim persecution of Christians. When will Pope Francis canonize Atta?
“Leave them; they are blind guides. And if a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.” (Matthew 15:14)
“West Turns Blind Eye Toward Islam’s Attack on Middle East Christians: Patriarch, by Steve Weatherbe, Life Site News, August 5, 2016:
TORONTO, August 5, 2016 (LifeSiteNews) – Developed countries motivated by a need for oil and desire for profits are abandoning their principles to allow Islamic Jihadists to destroy Middle Eastern Christianity, the “cradle” of the faith.
So said the patriarch of the Syriac Catholic Church of Antioch, His Beatitude Ignatius Joseph III Younan, to the annual international gathering of Knights of Columbus here last week.
“We have to understand that totalitarianism based on Islamic creed is the worst among all systems of government. Yes, my friends, the very survival of Christians in the cradle of Christianity is quite in danger,” the patriarch said.
“Why shall we wonder at the rise of the Islamic State or its new ‘Caliphate,’ when these ‘allied rich countries’ – with among the most retrograde systems of government – continue to channel funding and weapons to terrorists spreading hatred and committing barbaric atrocities in the name of a religion?” (This was an obvious reference to Saudi Arabia, America’s chief ally in the Middle East, whose royal family supports radical Islamic believers in return for their endorsement of the Saud family’s rulership.)
In a straight-from-the-heart cry for help for the rapidly vanishing but 2,000-year-old Christian presence in Middle East, Patriarch Ignatius Joseph told the Knights that Saudi Arabia was funding Muslim jihadists to act out a new kind of murderous intolerance, and the Western democracies were letting them do it.
Quoting New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof, the patriarch said, “For decades, Saudi Arabia has recklessly financed and promoted a harsh and intolerant Wahhabi version of Islam around the world in a way that is, quite predictably, producing terrorists.”
While the West practices separation of church and state in its own countries, he noted, it has been happy to support Middle Eastern regimes that unite Islamic intolerance with government and “do not hesitate to talk about ‘Muslim political parties,’ ‘Muslim Civilization’ and ‘Muslim World.'” Yet the West is unwilling to admit its own Christian roots or “mention anything reminding Europe of its history, which was for millennia permeated by Judeo-Christian values.”
The patriarch noted that the acceptance by the West of political Islam has been dangerously combined with support for Muslim rebels fighting to bring down Syria, “a country that had one of the most secularized governments in the Middle East” and protected Christians and other minorities.
“We, the Church pastors, kept warning Westerners who pretended to have the right to interfere in Syria in the name of democracy, that fomenting violence would surely lead to terrible sectarian war because of the complex religious and ethnic diversity in Syria. We knew innocent people, primarily Christians and minorities, would suffer most.”
But Western countries ignored Church leaders and “today, Syria is the most dangerous spot on the planet. Half a million Christians are gone. More than 140 churches and ancient monasteries were desecrated, abandoned or completely destroyed. Two Archbishops were kidnapped three years ago. Their fate is still unknown. Clergy are slaughtered. Civilians used as human shields. Most of all, Islamic Wahabism, the worst among radical religious groups, is rising and spreading. It is as we warned.”
A similar Western policy of overthrowing secular, autocratic regimes has resulted in the expulsion, he charged, of “150,000, some 40 percent of all Christians still living in Iraq” two years ago.
The patriarch accused Western leaders of being “naïve and complicit” in this destruction, motivated by fear and greed. They have naively pretended that political Islam is peaceful while being afraid to act decisively when it is violent.
He recited the motto of the Muslim Brotherhood to underline the violence in Islam:
“Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. The Qur’an is our law. Jihad is our way and dying for God is our ultimate desire.”
Patriarch Joseph Ignatius contrasted Western political leaders with the behavior of the Western church. “Church leaders and courageous Catholics from North America and Europe,” he said, “have visited those refugees to alleviate their dire conditions. Like the Good Samaritan, they emulate Jesus, sharing in their suffering, consoling, encouraging and reminding them that the Lord will never abandon them. Even in the worst living conditions, Christians are always messengers of the ‘Hope against all Hope.'”
But Christianity in the Middle East was now “an endangered species that could be wiped out for good. We have to understand that totalitarianism based on Islamic creed is the worst among all systems of government. Yes, my friends, the very survival of Christians in the cradle of Christianity is quite in danger.”
Though he did not offer concrete proposals in his prepared speech, the Crux news organization reported his verbatim comments suggested a change to national policy: “You can’t be allied with regimes that discriminate, or do not accept the religious freedom of non-Muslims. It’s not honest or sincere to be allied to such a regime and to say we have an annual report about religious freedom.” The U.S. government and Congress both produce annual reports on religious freedom.
Robert Spencer, the director of Jihad Watch, told LifeSiteNews: “The patriarch is right. The exhortations to violence against unbelievers come from the very heart of Islam – the Qur’an and the example of Muhammad. The Pope should heed his words and stop retailing politically correct fantasies.”…

Ex-muslim says
He is right. The West is infinitely Anti-Christian and deeply pro-islam. The West loves and respects muslims and islam while they hate Christ and the Bible! West is pure evil and they really, really deserve to be taken over by the muslim jihadists the love and respect.
gravenimage says
More from “Ex-muslim”, salivating over the specter of his (former?) coreligionists conquering us. *Ugh*.
And even if he cares nothing for those of us in the West–as he clearly does not–how can he believe that Islam conquering the West will help Christians in the rest of the world?
Likely he does not. He just wants to see us suffer and die at the hands of Muslims. In what way, exactly, is he an “ex” Muslim?
Christianblood says
(Syriac Catholic Patriarch: West “naive and complicit” in destruction of Middle Eastern Christianity).
This Bishop does not know the fact that America is both the greatest pro-jihadist nation as well as the greatest Anti-Christian nation on Earth! There is NO country on Earth that backs, supports, funds and arms islamic jihadist groups and states as America does. America is directly responsible for the hundreds of thousands of Serbian Christians evicted from their ancestral lands in Metohija, Kosovo and the thousands who were murdered there either by American/Nato bombings or their jihadist allies known as (KLA) and other islamic jihadists. America is also directly responsible for the genocidal persecution and eviction of millions of Christian in what was known ‘Iraq’ and is doing the same thing today to millions of Syrian Christians who are on the brink of even more atrocious religious genocide perpetrated by the islamic jihadists that are backed by America and the West in Syria.
America consistently refused to arm the only organized Christian militia in ME while at the same it is continuously arming, training and funding various islamic jihadist groups and countries in the region. There is NO Anti-Christ power bigger than America in the world today and the Lord knows this and He will reward America and the West for this. Surely He Will! Please read America’s refusal to arm Christian militia on the link below:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/260821/dc-refuses-arm-persecuted-christians-fighting-isis-raymond-ibrahim
Angemon says
Christianblood posted:
“This Bishop does not know the fact that America is both the greatest pro-jihadist nation as well as the greatest Anti-Christian nation on Earth!”
Citations needed, mind-reader.
“There is NO country on Earth that backs, supports, funds and arms islamic jihadist groups and states as America does.”
Citation needed.
“America is directly responsible for the hundreds of thousands of Serbian Christians evicted from their ancestral lands in Metohija, Kosovo and the thousands who were murdered there either by American/Nato bombings or their jihadist allies known as (KLA) and other islamic jihadists.”
Citations needed.
“America is also directly responsible for the genocidal persecution and eviction of millions of Christian in what was known ‘Iraq’ and is doing the same thing today to millions of Syrian Christians who are on the brink of even more atrocious religious genocide perpetrated by the islamic jihadists that are backed by America and the West in Syria. ”
Citations needed.
“America consistently refused to arm the only organized Christian militia in ME while at the same it is continuously arming, training and funding various islamic jihadist groups and countries in the region. ”
Citations needed.
“ There is NO Anti-Christ power bigger than America in the world today ”
Citation needed.
“and the Lord knows this and He will reward America and the West for this.”
Citation needed.
Western Canadian says
And again, the most sickening vile traitor to the human race, the utterly disgusting paid russian troll unchristiancrap, has taken time off from molesting children, to come by and spews his usual load of utter drivel. He pretends to decry the sad state of the Wests political system, its churches, its media, schools, etc, all the while gloating over the success that his own culture has ad, in its stealth jihad against the west. Yes, this son of mother russia, shares the guilt for the assault from within, staged by russia’s masters and aided by paid agents, fellow travellers, useful idiots and idiots in general against each of the institutions mentioned above. He, and his masters who pay him to come here to gloat, are guilty of these crimes, and are proud of themselves for what they have accomplished! No wonder russia is not trusted or respected, by anyone with intelligence and knowledge of its vicious and sordid history.
Kay says
Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits.
Richard Paulsen says
The Words of The Great Admiral Nelson: ” England expects every man to do his duty. “
Christianblood says
Ex-muslim posted
(..The West loves and respects muslims and islam while they hate Christ and the Bible!..)
Ex-muslim, America and the Wes not only respect and love islam and muslims but they side with islamic jihadists in hot wars and literally fight for them! For example, America and the West sent their own air force to help the jihadists in Libya that overthrew the regime of Qaddafi. US & Nato also bombed Serbia in support of their islamic jihadist allies there and carved out two islamic states (Bosnia & Kosovo) for their muslim jihadist allies. Just two days go, a huge stash of US made weaponry abandoned by US-allied jihadists in Syria were found in terrorist-held districts in Allepo Syria. Please watch the video below documenting this:
https://www.rt.com/news/354653-syria-rebels-weapons-us/
Angemon says
Christianblood posted:
“Ex-muslim, America and the Wes not only respect and love islam and muslims”
Citation needed.
“but they side with islamic jihadists in hot wars and literally fight for them!”
Citation needed.
“For example, America and the West sent their own air force to help the jihadists in Libya that overthrew the regime of Qaddafi.”
Citation needed.
“US & Nato also bombed Serbia in support of their islamic jihadist allies there and carved out two islamic states (Bosnia & Kosovo) for their muslim jihadist allies.”
Citation needed.
“Just two days go, a huge stash of US made weaponry abandoned by US-allied jihadists in Syria were found in terrorist-held districts in Allepo Syria.”
Huh, so what? Are you going to held any country that sold weapons to muslim nations responsible? Or are you limiting yourself to the US? If so, why?
Western Canadian says
One ore tie…..
And again, the most sickening vile traitor to the human race, the utterly disgusting paid russian troll unchristiancrap, has taken time off from molesting children, to come by and spews his usual load of utter drivel. He pretends to decry the sad state of the Wests political system, its churches, its media, schools, etc, all the while gloating over the success that his own culture has ad, in its stealth jihad against the west. Yes, this son of mother russia, shares the guilt for the assault from within, staged by russia’s masters and aided by paid agents, fellow travellers, useful idiots and idiots in general against each of the institutions mentioned above. He, and his masters who pay him to come here to gloat, are guilty of these crimes, and are proud of themselves for what they have accomplished! No wonder russia is not trusted or respected, by anyone with intelligence and knowledge of its vicious and sordid history.
Dom107 says
Now come on that is “over egging the pudding” by a zillion percent.The West has made some foolish mistakes when thinking they can civilise that
horrible can of worms called the Middle East and the endless murderous squabbling of the Islamic religion but you can tell just by this page that no one loves them!.There are well meaning Christian people who have been killed by Daesch and even governments who are using too much heart and not enough head but the unforeseen negative consequences of their actions do not meam they love Daesch.They are just foolish and we need to make them learn from their failures !
Hugo says
Bishops won’t even stand up to Muslim savages in Europe so I fail to see why they should for those in The Middle East.
ploome says
Well
First the Saturday people, then the Sunday people
remind ” His Beatitude “, how his Christians treated the Jews and to this day, collude with muslims against Israel.
What goes around…
Genesis 12:3
I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you.”
……….tell his beatitudie to ask forgiveness and pray
Kay says
The Jewish people of America also need to wake up!
Yet we Christians are only a branch grafted on to the tree of Judaism.
ploome says
grafted branch…?
lol
more like a wart-always trying to destroy the tree
your posts are funny
gravenimage says
Christians are not trying to destroy Judaism–Muslims certainly are, though.
Western Canadian says
I would suspect that ‘ploome’ was the noise made, when this posters brain imploded.
shosh7154 says
Catholicism is the most highly funded organization in the world. The pope has the power to set up safe zones in Syria for catholics who are being persecuted. However, the pope is making statements to the press that islam is not a dangerous ideology and should be embraced and welcomed into the family of catholicism. Islam states that Yeshua (Jesus) is a slave to Mohamed, the prophet of islam and will return to slaughter all the “Christians” under the order of Mohamed. Islam states that allah has no son.
Kay says
The Pope and all Christians must declare the true Gospel, praise the true God and proclaim Christ crucified (and triumphant over death).
gravenimage says
I am *no* fan of this witless pontiff–but the idea that the pope can set up “safe zones” for Christians in the middle of a Jihad war zone simply makes no sense.
That would be like saying a pope would have had no trouble setting up safe zones for Jews in Nazi Germany.
shosh7154 says
Money can buy armies. The pope has the money and the influence. But the pope is pro-islam so this will not happen even though the quran states that allah has no son and Jesus is the slave of Mohamed. Catholicism is ecumenical and therefore a great open door for islam to walk through.
Jay Boo says
Idiot shosh7154 TROLLING with old bait again
See below
shosh7154 says
Without Jesus (Yeshua) you will die in your sin and enter a place of eternal darkness, weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth….Luke 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Why will you die rejecting a free gift of eternity in the presence of eternal joy and peace and contentment in with the One Who loves you far more than anyone can ever love you ?
Jay Boo says
shosh7154
Muhammad was an filthy clownish lying BUFFOON.
Your Muhammad is now a slave to SATAN
He has a red hot pitchfork shove up his A-Hole.
Jay Boo says
What is shosh7154 here for?
What is this divisive idiot’s TRUE purpose here?
Glance at this comment on CAIR for an eyeful.
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/12/oklahoma-city-beheaders-mosque-imam-claims-he-has-a-certificate-of-apostolic-succession#comment-1169276
shosh7154 says
Imam thanks Pope for saying Islam is a religion of peace…
August 7, 2016 11:54 am By Robert Spencer
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/08/imam-thanks-pope-for-saying-islam-is-a-religion-of-peace
shosh7154 says
A former Catholic Nun …. she what she says before you close the door.
http://www.biblebelievers.com/bennett/bennett_mary-worship.html
The Truth will set you free.
gravenimage says
Thanks for that link, Jay Boo. shosh7154 makes it clear that would much rather rant about Catholicism and “Mary worship” than to actually oppose bloody Islam.
On that same thread, Marc Louis describes this poster as a troll.
Jay Boo says
Thanks, gravenimage for the follow up.
Jay Boo says
gravenimage
I am *no* fan of witless — shosh7154
What is this divisive idiot’s TRUE purpose here?
Glance at this comment on CAIR for an eyeful.
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/12/oklahoma-city-beheaders-mosque-imam-claims-he-has-a-certificate-of-apostolic-succession#comment-1169276
gravenimage says
Thanks, Jay Boo. I countered some of his idiocy on that thread, as well.
shosh7154’s claim that Catholicism is the same as Islam is utterly ludicrous. His only real purpose here–and on the other sites he posts on–has been to slam Catholicism. He only rarely mentions Jihad at all.
linnte says
Also, I don’t agree with “The Catholic Church is the wealthiest”(paraphrase) religion. Islam has Big Oil behind it every treacherous step the way: money and power OVER governments!
Jack Diamond says
The last words of Father Jacques Hamel, as he struggled with his killers, “Go away Satan.”
A moment of clarity.
http://www.christianpost.com/news/french-priests-last-words-to-isis-killers-before-his-throat-was-slit-go-away-satan-167403/
Ex-muslim says
In other words, Father Jacques Hamel died fighting. The question is now:
Who in the West will continue the-fight-back he started? Who?
gravenimage says
A large percentage of us here at Jihad Watch are Westerners–including Robert Spencer himself. “Ex-muslim” no doubt knows this, but likes to pretend otherwise.
Jay Boo says
It won’t be Ex-muslim
he will be too busy finding fault and pointing his anger at the West to have even a moment free to impede a single jihadi.
gravenimage says
True.
gravenimage says
Thank you for that heartening information, Jack. Father Jacques Hamel is a true hero!
Kay says
That Father Jacques rebuked the evil spirit in Jesus’ name is important.
Maybe the Pope is aware of the evil spirits as well when he mysteriously says “the others”.
Muslims can repent and turn to Christ. They can forego evil acts. They can be saved. Jesus died for ALL people. There is no question about the evil perpetrated by Islam and all of you know it better than anyone except those people who have been more direct victims. Even so, Muslims are nit evil itself. They, like everyone else, can choose between life and death, blessings and curses.
But woe to those who call evil good and good evil.
dumbledoresarmy says
Let us pray that the words of Fr Hamel, uttered in extremis, there in his parish church in France, addressing not merely those two Mohammedan murderers but that to which they are in thrall, may have implications far beyond that day and that hour.
May they re-echo throughout France, throughout Europe, throughout the West. May strongholds of evil – established in every mosque that has been built – be thrown down, and demons be bound and cast out into the abyss.
Remember Heidi Mund who, confronting an imam who was uttering Arabic invocations of infernal ‘allah’ in the course of an idiotic ‘interfaith’ event in an iconic church in Germany, invoked the power and name of the Lord?
http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2014/March/Brave-German-Woman-Why-Heidi-Mund-Rebuked-Islam
“Last November, when a Muslim imam was invited to give a call to prayer inside a historic German church, she stood and proclaimed **”Jesus Christ alone is Lord of Germany,” before shouting, “I break this curse.”**
“Mund then repeated the words of Martin Luther in 1521, when he defended his belief in scripture alone:
“‘Here I stand,'” she quoted Luther. “‘I can do no other. Save the church of Martin Luther!'” END QUOTE.
Unlike Fr Hamel, she was not facing imminent death by a jihadi with a butcher knife; but in essence, her invocation, her prayer, is the same. She was thrown out of the church; but in the pivotal point in time she had said what *had* to be said, what *needed* to be said.
And she has not been silent since, either; she is still standing up and speaking, as well as praying, against Islamisation. She is trying to rally people.
http://gatesofvienna.net/2016/01/a-possible-charge-of-incitement-against-heidi-mund-for-her-public-prayers/
A prayer she prayed, late last year:
“We pray FOR the genuine refugees that they get renewed hope for their lives that our LORD comforts them …
“[we pray] against the mass immigration of 90% of young Muslim men who should build up their own home countries and not rape our girls and women here; that with the Word of God — the Bible — they be sent back to their home countries where they belong. … [we pray] Against the diseases and epidemics the immigrants have brought with them ….
“We ask God … the Angel that He places on the borders of Germany and the other European countries.”
Now, the cynics and the atheists will say, well, there seems to be no answer.
But time will tell.
“The prayer of a righteous man [or woman] availeth much”.
May the last words of Fr Hamel be joined with the fiery words of Heidi Mund and may they bear fruit, in time, by the mercy of the living God.
*There* is the remnant: Fr Jacques Hamel, and faithful Heidi Mund, one a Catholic, one a Lutheran, one in France, one in Germany.
*My* prayer is that their words may be fulfilled far, far beyond all expectation.
Jack Diamond says
Amen.
Kay says
THANK YOU for this information dumbedoresarmy!!!
It is maybe only for this that I have visited this website.
I have been imagining what I would do if an Imam were to speak at my church as happened in a different church in my city this summer. It’s so much easier to imagine with a flesh and blood role model.
Brings me to tears (of relief, I think).
Yesterday I was surprised to find 3 women in hijab in the courtyard of my church, one with a beautiful garden that is often a tourist destination. It was an opportunity for witness to Jesus that I did not pass up; may God make it fruitful.
SirWalterSmith says
I still think this is not incompetence but a deliberate act to enforce some form of Islamo/Christian religion upon the entire world with Islam being the senior partner. To have so many incompetent leaders of government, media and faith all at the same time must be statistically unrealistic.
KrazyKafir says
This, is the man who should be Pope, instead of that commie embarrassment
Richard Paulsen says
He has never been mentioned on Swedish TV. Noone knows him here. Nothing about what happens to Christians in Mid east.
Day after day just news about muslim population and muslim men wanting to come to Sweden, Germany and so on.
Kay says
International Christian Concern tries to help mid-eastern Christians. You can get their info emailed to you.
Two other organizations are:
Open Doors
Voice of the Martyrs
I’m going to a presentation by some of the persecuted church this afternoon.
gravenimage says
Good for you, Kay! Glad to hear it!
Richard Paulsen says
Thank you. Swedish TV (SvT1,2, TV3 and TV4) never say anything. Islam and Christian believes being the same thing according to leading politics and media. Having the same God. It is so absurd.
Greyhound Fancier says
The Foundation for Relief and Reconciliation in the Middle East assists Christians who have had to refugee from their homes due to ISIS, etc. They accept support from their UK and US websites.
Europe not supporting the Christians is like a tree tearing up its own roots. It won’t live long.
umbra says
Well swedish TV (and all western mainstream media) are useless in this regard. Better off with sourcing information from verifiable alternative news sites.
Richard Paulsen says
Right. Feels as if living in exile. Good there is the web with a lot of very good international sites as well as private swedish.
There also are a few weekly newspapers here. With articles from international newspapers and by good swedish writers as well.
For security and political reasons being sent in neutral envelopes to subscribers,
Angemon says
How does “islamic wahabism” (is there wahabism in any other religion?) differ from, for example, shia islam, on the prescribed treatment of women, gays and non-muslims?
gravenimage says
Yes–Islam is a of a piece. Still, at least he is saying something.
Kay says
It is our shame. For our negligence of other Christians we all need to repent. True repentance means a change of heart and then actions.
somehistory says
Jesus gave the reason: “The world hates you (Christians).* He said that His followers were (are) “no part of the world” and for this reason, Christians are hated by the world. The leaders, in the West and elsewhere, and many followers of the leaders, are a large part of “the world” Jesus was speaking about.
The “world” hates Christians as it hates Christ.
gravenimage says
There is a lot of naivete and deep willful ignorance in the West, no doubt. But the idea that Western leaders–many of whom are Christians themselves–“hate Christians” is just witless.
somehistory says
Call it *witless* if you wish, g, but it will all come out *in the wash* when each one is held to account for their actions and their words.
A person can call themselves *Christian* or anything else…*a rubber-tree plant*…*bird*…etc.
But the fruit is what proves the claim.
If a *leader* is Christian, he/she will not be silent about what is happening to Christians everywhere, nor make claims in support of islam.
By the way, I have never said anything you have written was *witless* even when I wholeheartledly disagreed with what you wrote. But your claim is only your opinion.
gravenimage says
I generally very much respect your opinions, somehistory–I should not have characterized your opinion here the way I did. My apologies.
You can believe that every clueless dhimmi in the West is acting out of a deliberate hatred of Christ if you wish–but with respect I don’t believe that this is either accurate or useful.
I know a lot of foolish dhimmis who desperately want to believe that Islam is a “religion of peace” and that invading Muslims are just “needy refugees”–this is suicidally foolish, no doubt–but it is *not* the same as acting out of an actual hatred of Christians and Christ.
During the 1930s, there were many in the West who minimized the threat of the Nazis, and who even whitewashed Fascism as “efficient” and “modern”.
All of these people were idiots–but only a very small number of them actually supported what would become the Nazi conquest of Europe and the Holocaust.
Most of them were just willfully ignorant fools who desperately wanted to believe Hitler was not a threat.
I think our situation now is *very* similar.
somehistory says
g,
I appreciate that you apologized and that you *generally* respect my opinions.
One thing that I would like to point out here: What I wrote is not *my opinion.*
What I said is what Jesus said. He said on more than one occasion that Christians would be “hated” by the world. Jesus said that. It is not merely *my opinion.*
He also said that Christians would be “haled before kings and governors for His sake, to give a witness.” He made Christians understand that they were not to be afraid, but that they would be “given” what they were to say in those circumstances.
So the visits to the rulers…leaders…would not be on friendly terms if they had reason to be afraid and would need His help to “give an answer” or “witness.”
If the majority of “kings and governors” were Christian, there would be no need to be “haled” before them to give a “witness.”
He also said that the “road to destruction”…destruction by Him…is “broad and spacious” and “many” are on the road…that “many go in through the gate” that leads to their destruction. He said “few are on the road to life” and that it is a “cramped and narrow way.”
I didn’t make these things up. Whether or not you believe it to be “helpful” is your choice to make. I make my own choices based on what I believe to be best.
I would like to think most people are good. But I have enough of a “history” to know what Jesus said is true from seeing it for myself. There will be a ‘separation” of the “sheep from the goats.” (sheep are given life….goats are not) Jesus will do this, but He told us upon what actions He will be making a decision for each person. We mere humans can see it for ourselves, if we choose to look.
🙂
Kay says
With respect for you both, gravenimage and somehistory,
It can be hard to know if there is actually hatred or merely ignorance, wishful thinking, the habit of progressiveness, disregard, fear . . .
except in the case of out and out terror or persecution, when there is no question whatsoever.
Jesus said this so we would rely on His strength and power, and not fear people. When we are faithful to Him, He can act through us in powerful ways– to heal, to save lives, to encourage, to teach . . .
gravenimage says
Somehistory and Kay, I believe that far more of our fellow citizens are acting out of denial and ignorance than out of evil.
I believe Robert Spencer thinks the same, or else he would have given up trying to educate about the threat of Islam long since.
Best to you both.
Kay says
@ gravenimage–
Thank you. And thank you again. Your sensibleness and your knowledge are an important part of me being able to “let go” of commenting on this site, something I have not yet done (though promised) but will have to do soon as I will have increased work (and besides, it is not really my path).
But as one commenter remarked recently, we all must do our part.
I will still be checking in–for information– and may comment sometimes (as I truly value the freedom of speech).
All the best–
somehistory says
g,
Did you ever read the command in Ezekiel to the “watchman” who was to “warn the wicked one to abandon his wicked way and keep living”?
The watchman was to warn the wicked man and if he did not, he would have to pay for not warning him. If the wicked one turned back from his wickedness, he would keep living. If he did not, he would die. But the one warning him would save his own soul if he warned the wicked, whether the wicked one turned back or not.
And the account in the book of Jonah. Many people know a brief amount of what Jonah went through. The full story is: he was to go to Nineveh to warn the city to abandon their wicked ways. Jonah did not want to go, so he ran away and boarded a ship going in the opposite direction. God caused the ship to have problems and the crew found out that Jonah’s disobedience was the reason, so they threw him overboard where he was swallowed up by a large fish. The fish spit him out on land about three days later and having learned he could not run away, he went to Nineveh and began to warn the people.
They spoke a different language, but recognized his appearance and the tone of voice, so they repented.
The rest of the story is about him learning a lesson in mercy when God did not destroy the city as He had said He would…because the people had repented. Jonah felt sorry for the bottlegourd plant when it wilted in the heat, but he did not feel sorry for the people. He felt that they should die because that was what he went to tell them.
The important thing for anyone to remember: We humans don’t decide who lives and who dies. And we can’t read hearts. If we can warn someone, we should. If we can make them see what is going on, we should. But the reality is, most people will not see, just as Christ said about the ‘broad and spacious road.”
Whatever the reason….whether it is like Jesus said of the people in Noah’s day…”they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying and being given in marriage and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away.” Jesus then said, “That is how it will be in the time of the Son of Man.” Or if they actively, with vicious evil “hate Christ,” and “hate Christians”…the result is the same.
I must accept that Jesus knew…and still knows…what He was talking about when he said Christians would be hated by the world.
Peggy says
Sorry GI but I have to disagree on that one.
Western leaders are far from Christian. They might appear to be that because they attend church etc but they are far from Christian.
It is their deeds that speak louder than anything.
Why are they importing so many Muslims when even blind Freddy can see that most of them are young men of fighting are and not accepting the Christians?
A true Christian will not abandon his own.
You shall know them by their fruit and their fruit it rotten. Is there any western leader that you can think of who is fighting Islam? I am not talking about leaders of parties not in government but the actual leaders of parties in government.
The only one speaking up is the Hungarian president and I wouldn’t call Hungary a western country.
ploome says
Jesus NEVER preached to gentiles
NEVER
(no Christians until way after Jesus death)
somehistory says
Jesus healed the daughter of the Greek woman after speaking with her about His work. The Greek woman was not a Jew.
Jesus healed the child of the Roman soldier.
Jesus spoke to the Samaritan woman at the well. Samaritan’s were only partly of Jewish ancestry and a mix of others.
Although Jesus spoke mainly to the Jews from which nation He came, He also told them that there would be “other sheep, not of this fold” and that He would “bring” them.
And whose to say today whether there were non-Jews in the crowds that gathered to hear Him?
gravenimage says
All true, somehistory.
somehistory says
And the Book of Acts of the Apostles tells us that “they were, by Divine Providence, called Christians.” Those men and women written about in that book were Jews who preached to the Gentiles, and they too, became Christians upon putting faith in Christ and God.
This was not *way after.*
anno nimus says
The rulers are silent because if they say something then, good heavens, the people might get the crazy idea that the rulers are going to do something about it. So ignore the crimes and repeat again and again that Islam means peace. The media does a better job of covering up and misinforming that the rulers it is supposed to watch over.
Diagnosis: West, at least officially, has lost Christianity and become a Godless, spineless, petrol worshipping, Jewish-obsessed, guilt-ridden, decadent and confused polity.
Solution: reclaim your heritage, honor and fear God, and stand up for what is right.
God will help us if we help ourselves.
Ben Franklin
Luke says
Complicit in destroying Christianity in the west too!
Kay says
Inspiration:
I tremble because of the sufferings of those persecuted in different lands. I tremble thinking about the eternal destiny of their torturers. I tremble for Western Christians who don’t help their persecuted brethren. In the depth of my heart, I would like to keep the beauty of my own vineyard and not be involved in such a huge fight. I would like so much to be somewhere in quietness and rest. But it is not possible… The quietness and rest for which I long would be an escape from reality and dangerous for my soul… The West sleeps and must be awakened to see the plight of the captive nations.
Richard Wurmbrand, Tortured for Christ
dumbledoresarmy says
There is one place where the Christians are safe, one place that Christians can visit more safely than any other part of the Middle East.
*The* cradle of Christianity is not Syria nor Lebanon nor Iraq nor Egypt but… eretz Israel, the land of Israel. Yehoshuah of Nazareth was born in Bethlehem in Judea and, although his family spent some time during his early childhood in hiding amongst the million-strong Jewish community in Alexandria in Egypt (the place to hide a needle is in a haystack) [once one knows about that Jewish community, the gospel story of the Flight into Egypt takes on a whole different aspect], was raised a devout Jew in Nazareth.
Right now, Nazareth is *inside* Israel proper; and the only reason Bethlehem is impossible for Christians is because it is run by the deeply corrupt P.A.
If, back in 1967, the Israelis had acted with despatch and – the moment they knew they had control of Judea and Samaria and the Temple Mount – had kicked out the waqf without explanations or apologies and *reclaimed* full Jewish sovereignty of the Temple Mount and demolished both mosques and every other Islamic installation on that Mount, great or small, and had unapologetically turfed out into Jordan or Egypt every last Muslim from the liberated portions of Old Jerusalem and from newly-liberated Judea and Samaria, including Bethlehem, whilst encouraging the *Christians* to *remain* where they were, then I assure you that Bethlehem would be a thriving Christian town – in symbiosis with a thriving Jewish community.
As for Nazareth, the only reason Christians AND JEWS are in trouble there, is because the Israeli authorities have adopted a concilatiory and, alas, dhimmi attitude toward the increasingly-aggressive Mohammedans in that vicinity. The Israelis need to *crack down*, hard on the Muslims in and around Nazareth. If they did, the mohammedans would knuckle under, and Jews and Christians in Nazareth and the whole of the Galilee would flourish. (Of course, again, going back a bit… imagine if, in 1948, *every* mohammedan had been driven out of the Galilee and every other part of what became the modern state of Israel 1948-1967… there would be NO problem for the local Christians in Nazareth today, neither they *nor* the Jewish inhabitants of the area would have to worry about jihad plots and all the other sh*t – such as wholesale theft of livestock and other property – that the Muslims are regularly engaging in.)
ploome says
had the Israelis sone what you suggest, no Christian nation would have supported Israel
as it is…look at the UN with majority Christian nations
support the muslims ALL THE TIME
dumbledoresarmy says
Are you sure? Totally sure? 1948 and even 1967 were pre-1973 oil crisis; the whole ‘Eurabia’ had not yet taken place. I think that if things had been done *fast* – ‘fog of war’ and all that – you could have gotten away with it. And if it had become obvious that the NON-Muslim communities were NOT being targeted and were indeed encouraged to remain?
Re the UN: so far as I can see, now that the Cold War is over the single biggest voting bloc at the UN is the Islamintern. 57 countries.
And ‘during* the Cold War, the Muslims constantly took advantage of the division within the ‘camp of the infidels’; *each* side, whether communist or ‘free’, was fooled into thinking it could use the mohammedan sword against the other, but all that happened was that both sides were had for suckers.
Islam seems to me be a much more powerful factor in UN votes than Christianity. None of the nations that have a majority-(nominally) Christian population seem to be doing anything significant to assist the Christian communities worldwide who are being mercilessly persecuted by Muslims.
Truth Seeker says
Now there are No Christians in West. Though they hold Christian Names, they are Far Away from Christianity. Now they Dig Own Grave in the Pretext of Multiculturalism and Appeasing Jihadis who come with the Mask of Migrants/Refugees.
They show Blind Eye and Deaf Ears and Dumb Tongue to All Atrocities to Christians anywhere in the World. Then Justify Terror Attacks of ‘Jihadis’ are given the Interpretation, it has Nothing to do with Religion, but it is act of some perverted fellows. In other words, they Abet Jihadi Terrorism.