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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Podesta lamented that San Bernardino killer was Muslim, “not a guy named Christopher Hayes”

Oct 16, 2016 2:25 pm By Robert Spencer

Podesta, the Clinton Campaign Chairman, was reflecting the perspective held generally by Leftists: the truth doesn’t fit their narrative. Reality is revoltingly inconvenient, so they are determined to ignore and deny it and substitute a scenario more to their liking: that “right-wing extremists” are the threat, not Islamic jihadists.

johnpodesta

“WikiLeaks: Podesta lamented that a Muslim, not a white man, named as killer in 2015 massacre,” Fox News, October 16, 2016:

Top Hillary Clinton aides were upset a Muslim man was publicly named as the shooter in a 2015 massacre that left 14 people dead, and a longtime Clinton confidant even expressed regret that the terrorist wasn’t a white man, according to purported emails released by WikiLeaks on Sunday.

The emails were part of a trove of messages stolen from the gmail account of Clinton campaign chair John Podesta, who has had a long association with the Democratic presidential nominee and her husband, former President Bill Clinton. The email chain began on Dec. 2, when digital operative Matt Ortega forwarded a tweet from MSNBC host Christopher Hayes that named one of the shooters in the San Bernardino, Calif., attack as Sayeed Farook. Consultant Karen Finney forwarded the email to Podesta, commenting, “Damn.”

Podesta responded: “Better if a guy named Sayeed Farouk [sic] was reporting that a guy named Christopher Hayes was the shooter.”

Farook and his wife, Tashfeen Malik, gunned down 14 people and injured 22 in a terror attack during a holiday party at the Inland Regional Center on Dec. 2. The attackers pledged their allegiance to ISIS before dying in a shootout with police later in the day.

But Podesta’s written lament of the shooter’s ethnicity underscores a long-running aversion in the Clinton campaign – and many in the Democratic party at large – to associating terrorist acts with any aspect of the Islamic religion.

In a 154-page debate prep book that was developed two months after the San Bernardino attacks, and also unearthed in the WikiLeaks document dump, topic 47 is devoted to “Should we call this Islamic terrorism?” Nowhere in the suggested seven-point answer does “Islamic terrorism” make an appearance. Instead, it’s suggested that Clinton call the enemy “radical jihadists.”

“Now, of course there are those who twist Islam to justify mass murder,” point three begins. “But we can’t buy into the same narrative that these barbaric, radical jihadists use to recruit new followers. Declaring war on Islam or demonizing the Muslim-American community is not only counter to our values – it plays right into the terrorists’ hands.”

Point seven states: “Radical jihadists underestimate us. We won’t turn on each other or turn on our principles. We will keep our country safe and strong, free and tolerant. And we will defeat those who threaten us.”…

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Filed Under: Featured, Useful idiots, willful ignorance Tagged With: Hillary Clinton, John Podesta


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Comments

  1. Peter says

    Oct 16, 2016 at 2:31 pm

    The liberal progressive traitor should at least find solace in the fact that the jihadist was a “white male.”

    • jihad3tracker says

      Oct 16, 2016 at 6:10 pm

      ******** TO EVERY JIHAD WATCH READER ********

      So, Clinton”s CAMPAIGN MANAGER thinks humor is appropriate after 14 people were slaughtered by a jihadi, and the entire San Bernardino community was traumatized emotionally and financially.

      As Robert observes in his post above — DEMOCRATS MUST AVOID THE TRUTH ABOUT ISLAM AT ALL TIMES. NO CONNECTION BETWEEN MUSLIMS AND MURDER OF INFIDELS.

      Here is the web address of a San Bernardino news site: http://www.sbsun.com. Visit it tomorrow (Monday) and see if there is ANY COVERAGE of that email — as an article, letter to the editor, or opinion posting.

      AND HERE IS THE EMAIL ADDRESS FOR THEIR LOCAL REPORTERS: citydesk@inlandnewspapers.com. This is a phone number: 909-386-3877 — but remember that California can be 2 or 3 hours later than Central or Eastern clocks.

      PLEASE CONTACT THAT WEBSITE. Ask them to publish your comments as a letter to the editor — and to get in touch with THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN ABOUT PODESTA’S SICK MIND.

      Nail Hillary to the wall — we have the rare gift of truth, thanks to Julian Assange and WikiLeaks. Take advantage of this right away, before our distractable fellow citizens move on to something less important.

      • Oliver says

        Oct 16, 2016 at 7:08 pm

        California IS EARLIER NOT LATER- for example, when it is 9:00 in New York (eastern time) it is 6:00 in Cal. (Pacific time).

        • jihad3tracker says

          Oct 16, 2016 at 8:02 pm

          Thank you, Oliver.

          What I should have written, to be clearer: “Remember to call 2 or 3 hours LATER than you own local clock.”

      • gravenimage says

        Oct 16, 2016 at 9:34 pm

        I don’t think this was humor on Podesta’s part–I think he was entirely serious here, which is probably even worse.

        • Jay Boo says

          Oct 16, 2016 at 10:04 pm

          True
          The families of those murdered by Muslims during this Islamic terrorist hate crime have other priorities than defending the Muslim murderers.

        • jihad3tracker says

          Oct 16, 2016 at 10:27 pm

          Hello again gravenimage — Yes, I agree, Podesta was entirely serious.

          But he wrapped the continuous Democrat-Leftist refusal to admit Muslim jihad reality inside AN ENVELOPE of elitist contempt for everyday ordinary working class Americans.

        • gravenimage says

          Oct 17, 2016 at 11:18 pm

          I very much agree–so many of the “elites” have the most dripping contempt for their own constituencies. *Ugh*.

      • Kathy Brown, Esq. says

        Oct 16, 2016 at 10:19 pm

        Jihad3, I want to thank you for posts such as these. I know they take a lot of time and trouble. You are a true patriot.

        • jihad3tracker says

          Oct 16, 2016 at 10:54 pm

          Hello Kathy — I am a 68 year old senior citizen, who has been extremely blessed to survive this long on our God-given planet.

          Robert Spencer & Pamela Geller are the most courageous civilians in our nation, and a non-leftist history of American patriotism will eventually say so.

          Often overlooked, because they are in the background, are David Yerushalmi and Robert Muise, at the American Freedom Law Center.

          Jihad Watchers have the absolute best path to truth about Islam, the Qur’an, Hadith, Sira, and Muhammad’s brilliant vector to domination.

        • Daniel Triplett says

          Oct 17, 2016 at 9:46 am

          @jihad3tracker

          You’re younger than Trump, or Reagan when he took office.

          Stay in the fight Sister. You have a great deal to contribute.

        • gravenimage says

          Oct 17, 2016 at 11:25 pm

          Hear, hear, Kathy Brown and Jihad3tracker!

    • PRCS says

      Oct 16, 2016 at 7:08 pm

      That must confound him to no end.

    • Bill says

      Oct 17, 2016 at 7:37 pm

      It was not a joke at all. He wanted the shooter to be a white male republican and member of the NRA so that Hillary and the Democrats could have a platform to demand civilian disarmament in the United States, a goal of the Democrat party.

  2. Jaladhi says

    Oct 16, 2016 at 2:36 pm

    These leftist democrats are plainly disgusting traitors!!

  3. Jaladhi says

    Oct 16, 2016 at 2:41 pm

    Ah and we are back to radical jihadists a there are moderate jihadists!! LOL… These guys are such stupid or lying cheating deceivers that Americans can never imagine.

  4. Jack says

    Oct 16, 2016 at 2:43 pm

    Why is he lamenting this? The obvious answer is that Clinton is getting millions of dollars from Wahabbis. And in return, I believe she has agreed to take in millions of Sunnis to cause the Islamification of North America.

  5. Malcolm (SouthAfria) says

    Oct 16, 2016 at 2:52 pm

    We have experienced banana republics in Africa, If the USA isn’t no 1 in the world then it is a crime syndicate, with this Democrat Administration. Hopeful they do not win the coming election.

    Wikileaks is awesome.

    • Oliver says

      Oct 16, 2016 at 3:44 pm

      I think I had mentioned this beofre.

      When Wikileaks was FIRST releasing leaked emails, THEY WERE ENTIRELY against Bush and the Repubs.

      The Dems — starting with Obama were overjoyed.

      THEN THE FECES HIT THE FAN.

      The emails from the late Saudi King, ( for want of a better term) bitching about the Iran sanctions- ( not strong enough) when Obama and the libs were blasting Israel “over ” settlements” in the “occupied territories” (lands won by Israel in wars started by Muslims). THEN THE COMPLAINING –BY THE DEMS STARTED.

      They are lower then animal feces. I hope that when there are ( and no doubt there will be) terrorist attacks and race riots, in thsi country (US), the libs are the ones who get beaten and killed; their wives and daughters raped..

      They are the ones who are bringing this scourge upon us. AND WORSENING RACIAL RELATIONS.

      I realize the second part of my rant is not PC, and might be offensive.

      I hope that there ARE NO terrorist incidents or race riots. But, if there are, the deplorables and those who are forced by circumstances (or choice) to live in low/lower income areas, and are law abiding are not harmed.

      • Malcolm (SouthAfria) says

        Oct 16, 2016 at 3:55 pm

        Oliver says

        “I hope that there ARE NO terrorist incidents or race riots. But, if there are, the deplorables and those who are forced by circumstances (or choice) to live in low/lower income areas, and are law abiding are not harmed.”

        I am with you on the above. Hang on the left will be on this thread soon with their smear.

  6. Lynne says

    Oct 16, 2016 at 3:12 pm

    How heartless these democrats are!

  7. somehistory says

    Oct 16, 2016 at 3:28 pm

    This is the guy who said he had a Trojan horse inside the Catholic Church. And he and his new mistress…aka bosslady…want to eliminate Christianity entirely.

    To accomplish that, they have to find ways to make Christians the bad guy, the fall guy, in every instance of wrong, evil, criminal, actions. To point the finger, even when it is absolutely the farthest thing from truth, in order to satisfy their masters, the wild beast and its adherents.

  8. davej says

    Oct 16, 2016 at 3:43 pm

    “they have twisted this Religion…” Not much twisting required, Islam is clearly pre-twisted, read their damnable book.

    • Mark DeFord Eletion says

      Oct 18, 2016 at 8:24 am

      Who is doing the “twisting” of islam depends on one’s perspective.

      In much of the world, islam has been somewhat modernized, resulting in a “twist” away from the original form of islam. The wahabbis/jihadis are attempting to twist it back.

  9. Malcolm (SouthAfria) says

    Oct 16, 2016 at 3:44 pm

    What a bunch of morons.

    “Republican Party Office in Orange County firebombed, vandalized, police say”

  10. Champ says

    Oct 16, 2016 at 4:01 pm

    Only cowards cannot embrace the ugly TRUTH about islam & company …he even looks like a chicken with that beak-like-nose of his and expression.

    • somehistory says

      Oct 16, 2016 at 4:15 pm

      I thought more of a vulture look, somewhat like huma abedin’s husband, weiner. Chickens show a lot of courage when a hawk is after their babies or a rooster senses danger to the hens.

      But vultures…or as we said as children, buzzards… fly away when danger threatens them as they are eating off the dead and dying.

      • Champ says

        Oct 16, 2016 at 5:44 pm

        True–good point, Somehistory!

      • Jay Boo says

        Oct 16, 2016 at 10:10 pm

        He was looking for any excuse to slander Christians instead.
        As soon as he saw the name ‘Christopher’ he began to drool uncontrollably.

  11. janecurtin says

    Oct 16, 2016 at 4:23 pm

    what baffles me is why Hillary & Obama are so hell bent taking in so many ” refugees”. when all you have to see the chaos in Western Europe Granted we are the deplorable people who live here . And have to face the conseqences of they’re folly. Shouldn’t we rise up And ELECT TRUMP.

    • jane curtin says

      Oct 16, 2016 at 4:29 pm

      In the last email I meant to say why we are getting the ” reflugees” is her and Barry’s palms were greased.

  12. Islam_Macht_Frei says

    Oct 16, 2016 at 4:23 pm

    I call it “Contessa Brewer Syndrome”

    • Jay Boo says

      Oct 16, 2016 at 10:18 pm

      Someone could tell these idiots that their family was just beheaded by a shaggy bearded man shouting Allahu Akbar and they would say the same thing, “I hope the killer is not Muslim because beheading is a stereotype of Muslims for some reason.”

  13. chaffer says

    Oct 16, 2016 at 4:23 pm

    Let’s be honest. When these stories pop up, we all check for the race, religion and politics of the suspect.

    • somehistory says

      Oct 16, 2016 at 5:28 pm

      The issue isn’t that simple. If the perp is white and claims to be Christian, or has ever gone to church, those things are noted immediately. If the perp is moslim, the facts are obscured and made to seem, when it does come out, that he/she was not acting in the purpose and cause and MO of islam, but was off the rails, mental case, angry with his job, etc.
      And if the white perp ever did go to church, that is used as an excuse for the next moslim event to be played down, as though the ones claiming Christianity commit acts of terror as much, or even more, than moslims.

      Anyone who is truly *honest* wants the truth told, even if it hurts or is unpleasant. moslims and their sidekicks want to hide as much about islam’s culpability as possible, lying when it suits

      • gravenimage says

        Oct 16, 2016 at 9:39 pm

        Exactly, somehistory. Good post.

      • Jay Boo says

        Oct 16, 2016 at 10:21 pm

        Ever since Obama has been in office the innocence of Muslims meme has blossomed from an annoying odor to a full blown unapologetic stink.

  14. Mark A says

    Oct 16, 2016 at 5:19 pm

    John Podesta will undoubtedly have an influential position in any Hillary Clinton administration. We should be very afraid…..

  15. Angemon says

    Oct 16, 2016 at 5:38 pm

    Podesta responded: “Better if a guy named Sayeed Farouk [sic] was reporting that a guy named Christopher Hayes was the shooter.”

    Yeah, it must he hard to play the protector of minorities when said minorities are proven, time after time, to be the attacker…

  16. Edgar Allen says

    Oct 16, 2016 at 5:42 pm

    This leftists mindset is not new. See below:

    April 16, 2013 – Let’s hope the Boston Marathon bomber is a white American

    http://www.salon.com/2013/04/16/lets_hope_the_boston_marathon_bomber_is_a_white_american/

    • gravenimage says

      Oct 16, 2016 at 9:41 pm

      Yes–thanks for posting this, Edgar Allen. And note, the hope is not just that the attacker is not Muslim, but that that he belongs to the hated category of whites–usually white males.

      Whenever I hear about a crime, I just want to know who committed it. One would *hope* that our police, security, and politicians feel the same.

  17. Wellington says

    Oct 16, 2016 at 5:54 pm

    When you live in Leftworld, as John Podesta most certainly does, 1) facts are optional, 2) believing something is true is as good as being true, 3) criticism of any people who do not come from the West must be done sparingly, if at all, no matter how egregious are their beliefs and actions, 4) social justice is far more important than character so that being a rogue (e.g., Hillary Clinton) is of no account as long as that person puts social justice front and center like, and 5) the real villains of the world are Western conservatives who dare criticize or question the noble assumptions of the Left and, naturally of course, are bigots to the very core of their being.

    Yes indeed, welcome to Leftworld, which is presently destroying Western Civilization, and most especially the freedom that Western Civilization pioneered as no other civilization remotely has. Leftworld does this by way of sundry idiocies, among them being political correctness, multiculturalism, certainly regular exculpation of the worst religion ever created by man, Islam, and utter contempt for Western Civilization itself.

    I feel ever increasingly like a stranger in a strange land. I can hardly recognize any longer the America I was born into. “Thanks” here for this must first and foremost be accorded to Leftworld, which ruins everything it touches——-education, the economy, the Constitution, the law, marriage, the military, race relations, gender relations, a proper regard for the environment instead of turning environmentalism into a substitute religion, an accurate assessment of America rather than an unrelenting hatred for arguably the most magnificent and noble polity ever crated by man, etc. Yes, “thanks” here to Leftworld for all this rot. And John Podesta could be the poster boy here for Leftworld, with my choice of Hillary Clinton as the poster girl for the ongoing immense ruination of the greatest experiment in human history, the United States of America.

    Time for a beer. Or maybe three.

    • Wellington says

      Oct 16, 2016 at 5:57 pm

      That’s “created” and not, go figure, “crated.”

    • gravenimage says

      Oct 16, 2016 at 9:42 pm

      Grimly spot on, Wellington.

    • Greyhound Fancier says

      Oct 17, 2016 at 11:09 pm

      The leftists have already damaged the First Amendment by their political correctness, by either destroying or threatening to destroy anyone whose ideas aren’t acceptable to them. The attacks on the Church (while always finding a way to defend Mohammedanism) show an amazing obtuseness – they can’t distinguish between a Methodist and a Mohammedan. Once the left accepts sharia law (as the coward that they are) and the freedom on speech is dead, will the left apologize?

      The Second Amendment is always in jeopardy with leftists, I suppose because they can’t risk having armed people to oppose their nonsense.

      I sometimes can’t believe how quickly this country has fallen. Sometimes it reminds me of a film called, IIRC, “Other People’s Lives”, about a man in East Germany being monitored 24/7 by the Stasi. We who are concerned about the jihad are admonished to bite our tongues at work and other public venues. Don’t want to be “racist” against a “religion”, after all!

      Many people might consider us a little monomaniacal, but think of where we stood vis a vis the Mohammedans only 20 years ago. This slope is not only slippery, it’s teflon. Thank goodness for Jihad Watch and The Religion of Peace – doing the work that the American media won’t!

  18. Oliver says

    Oct 16, 2016 at 7:20 pm

    Wellington, excellent statement. I agree (usually) with most of what you say.

    Here, i agree totally.

    One point- BEFORE OBAMA AND THE INFLUX OF MUSLIMS– the U.S. Military was:

    the first ( and almost trouble free) part of American society to be fully (racially and religiously) integrated. (Under President Truman, after WW2–during WW1 & WW2- the Negroes were in separate units from white soldiers. President Truman ended that-I believe by executive order, not sure–I was either not born yet, or in diapers).

    The military- before Obama-had virtually no racial or religious problems.

    And, before Obama, the racial relations between whites, blacks and Asians and Hispanics was OK; not perfect, but did not have riots every few weeks–with race baitors like Jackson, Sharpton (and Clinton, H and Hussein Obama) pouring gasoline on a fire- to turn a local disturbance into a full blown race riot. And chunks of cities being destroyed.

    I THINK I have witnessed more race riots (in the US) (not personally- via TV, internet, etc) over the past 7+ years of Obama then in the 35 years preceding — in total.

    • Wellington says

      Oct 16, 2016 at 10:41 pm

      Obama, Oliver, makes someone like Al Sharpton look as though they belong on the JV team of race hustlers. Here Obama is definitely varsity material.

      What a divider Obama has been. What a travesty all around. Easily, no contest here, the worst President in American history.

      • Greyhound Fancier says

        Oct 17, 2016 at 11:12 pm

        The decline in race relations is palpable. Practically everything is now viewed through a prism of race. We’ll never advance in this poisoned atmosphere. Obama is a disaster.

        • gravenimage says

          Oct 17, 2016 at 11:59 pm

          Very true.

  19. PRCS says

    Oct 16, 2016 at 7:46 pm

    ” The email chain began on Dec. 2, when digital operative Matt Ortega forwarded a tweet from MSNBC host Christopher Hayes that named one of the shooters in the San Bernardino, Calif., attack as Sayeed Farook. Consultant Karen Finney forwarded the email to Podesta, commenting, “Damn.””

    Not damn, that’s awful, rather damn, we’ll have to concoct another bs line to divert the public’s attention from Islam again.

  20. Sheykh Yer Weeni says

    Oct 16, 2016 at 8:51 pm

    I, the Infidel Imam, am not concerned about these White terrorists. They did not kill anyone, so Muslims still have no body count of which to speak. “Islamophobia” is largely a concocted disorder. On the other hand, Kafirophobia, the irrational fear and/or hatred of Kafirs (the only English word that even comes close to the sense of Kafir starts with “N”) is very deadly. One single attack of Kafirophobia killed 2,997 people and “9/11” has become a household word for terrorism everywhere.

  21. gravenimage says

    Oct 16, 2016 at 9:29 pm

    Podesta lamented that San Bernardino killer was Muslim, “not a guy named Christopher Hayes”
    ………………………….

    What a creep. I could see it if he wished that the San Bernardino massacre had never happened at all–I would feel the same way–but this is just sick.

    While those of us here at JIhad Watch are always interested in whether a crime was committed by Muslims–because it is important to know who is threatening us–you wouldn’t find any of us bizarrely lamenting if the perp *isn’t* Muslim.

    This just shows how out of touch with reality these dhimmis are.

    More:

    “Now, of course there are those who twist Islam to justify mass murder,” point three begins. “But we can’t buy into the same narrative that these barbaric, radical jihadists use to recruit new followers. Declaring war on Islam or demonizing the Muslim-American community is not only counter to our values – it plays right into the terrorists’ hands.”
    ………………………….

    So he’d rather ignore reality…

    More:

    Point seven states: “Radical jihadists underestimate us. We won’t turn on each other or turn on our principles. We will keep our country safe and strong, free and tolerant. And we will defeat those who threaten us.”…
    ………………………….

    Uh huh. In other words, they will do nothing to protect us against Muslims, since that would not fit the “narrative” and would be “Islamophobic”, bu they will–*somehow*–keep us safe. I’ve yet to see that happen, nor is it likely to with this willful denial.

  22. Georg says

    Oct 16, 2016 at 11:18 pm

    I regret Podesta isn’t a guy who lived and died in a remote corner of the rainforest.

    • Oliver says

      Oct 18, 2016 at 7:55 pm

      Georg-I regret that Podesta isn’t dead-now, anywhere. Along with many of the other lefties connected to Clinton.

      Just my view

  23. tgusa says

    Oct 17, 2016 at 2:07 am

    White male Americans want to put John and the rest of his seriously deranged gang on trial. Some of them have committed crimes that rise to the level of the ultimate penalty while others deserve a lesser penalty, like permanent expulsion.

  24. tgusa says

    Oct 17, 2016 at 4:03 am

    We have grown to dislike the nazi comparison but this sob fits the description completely. He is a nazi all right but of a completely different stripe and right here living among us in America.

  25. scherado says

    Oct 17, 2016 at 5:33 am

    Anyone who was conscious remembers the subject sentiment underlying all commentary in news media. Didn’t someone make a similar implication in reverse?–someone conveyed disappointment that it was a “man of color”? I’ve got to go check with the Memory Division.

    They–you know who–couldn’t hide their disappointment that it was not “not related to Islam”–the phrase used to convey a certain type of crime at another website.

  26. Robert DuPaul says

    Oct 17, 2016 at 6:50 am

    Very sad state of affairs when a person such as this who has a high place in the current campaign wishes that the people were killed by someone more to their political advantage !

    • El Cid says

      Oct 17, 2016 at 12:34 pm

      Perhaps. I don’t read it as quite so machiavellian.

      It seems that he is in denial. The Democratic Party is a loose coalition of ethnic groups that all want special recognition. The Dems want the Muslim vote. They also want to appear consistent in their identity politics to other ethnic groups that expect ‘fair’ treatment. They see Muslims as a religion identity.

      Hence, they cannot acknowledge that we are at war with Islam. How inconvenient for them. As the bard says, they are hoisted on their on petard.

      • Oliver says

        Oct 17, 2016 at 5:12 pm

        El Cid–I mostly agree- but last point. As the bard says, they are hoisted on their on petard.

        That statement PREDATES SHAKESPEARE BY A FEW THOUSAND YEARS.

        it is in THE BOOK OF ESTHER.

        The story of Esther & Mordecai, in Persia (now Iran) when Hamman wanted to exterminate the Jews.

        Hamman had built a huge gallows to hang Mordecai, and instead, he was hung on it- and that statement came into being.

        Oliver

        • Greyhound Fancier says

          Oct 17, 2016 at 11:16 pm

          That is one of my favorite incidents in the scriptures.

  27. Florida Jim says

    Oct 17, 2016 at 9:30 am

    Surprise, surprise surprise if you want to see Podesta’s ideas read Wikileaks they tell a story of a horrible human being perfect with Hillary and Bill.They all want open borders, globalism and a world where they lead the rest of into Hell.

  28. James Stamulis says

    Oct 17, 2016 at 10:04 am

    It is abundantly obvious that the entire left “Can’t Handle The Truth”!

  29. More Ham Ed says

    Oct 17, 2016 at 2:44 pm

    Leftists and islamists (lowercase be upon them) have alot in common, among other things, intense efforts to control speech and society’s thoughts.

  30. Kepha says

    Oct 17, 2016 at 9:18 pm

    Podesta’s comments, plus Shrillary Shroooooooo’s insistence that the unborn child is without rights until she comes out, shows how morally warped and twisted the Democratic Party is. Only the PeeCee EmCee narrative, which has now gotten people killed and raped, counts.

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