Hussam Ayloush of the Hamas-linked Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) was delighted that President-elect Trump was reportedly considering Mitt Romney for Secretary of State:
Given CAIR’s ties to Hamas and relentless opposition to counter-terror measures, this should be enough to move Trump to scratch Romney off his list. The 2012 Republican presidential candidate represents the failed policies of the past; if he becomes Secretary of State, instead of a real change and a realistic approach to the terror threat, we would just get more of the same: more fantasy-based policymaking, more denial and willful ignorance about the motivating ideology of the jihad threat, and more self-defeating policies that enable rather than stymie the jihadis. Indeed, anyone whom Hussam Ayloush thinks would be a great Secretary of State would be a disastrous one.
This is the same Ayloush who, on election night, in his rage and frustration that Trump was winning, let the mask slip:
“CAIR Leader: Overthrow the U.S. Government,” by Daniel Pipes, November 11, 2016:
The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) successfully presents itself to the media as a benign civil rights organization, comparable to the NAACP or the ADL, a description that conservatives ineffectively rail against. In this light, perhaps a tweet sent out just after midnight EST on Nov. 9 by Hussam Ayloush, long-time head of CAIR’s Los Angeles office, will help awaken the press to CAIR’s true Islamist identity. Ayloush wrote:
Ok, repeat after me:
Al-Shaab yureed isqat al-nizaam.
(Arab Spring chant)
Tweet by CAIR’s Hussam Ayloush just as Donald Trump’s victory became apparent.
That second line is Arabic (“الشعب يريد إسقاط النظام”) for “The people wants to bring down the regime.”
In other words, Ayloush unambiguously and directly called for the overthrow of the U.S. government.
Comments: (1) Ayloush may be the most vicious of the CAIR leaders. So far as I know, for example, he’s the only one of them to bandy about the term “Zionazi,” as evidenced in his e-mail below, dated March 18, 2002.
E-mail from Hussam Ayloush referring to “Zionazis.”
(2) Ayloush is not a marginal figure but someone with access to the heights of American power, including the White House. According to an Investigative Project on Terrorism analysis in 2012, he
was a delegate to the 2012 Democratic National Convention in Charlotte, N.C. [and] … attended at least two White House meetings. The logs show Ayloush met with Paul Monteiro, associate director of the White House Office of Public Engagement on July 8, 2011 and Amanda Brown, assistant to the White House director of political affairs Patrick Gaspard, on June 6, 2009. According to reliable sources, Monteiro was White House liaison for secret contacts with CAIR, especially with Ayloush.
Further, “IPT has learned that the White House logs curiously have omitted Ayloush’s three meetings with two other senior White House officials.”…

Tweet by CAIR’s Hussam Ayloush just as Donald Trump’s victory became apparent.
E-mail from Hussam Ayloush referring to “Zionazis.”
Don McKellar says
I truly cannot see how Mitt Romney could be in that position when one looks at all the people actually confirmed as real picks so far by Trump. Mitt Romney would have to follow Trump’s policies as SOS, otherwise he’s not going to last long. I’m certain that the smart and educated people on Islam that Trump has surrounded himself with, will give their unvarnished opinions on this matter.
underbed cat says
I sure hope you are correct Don Keller, that Trump has surrounded himself with Islamic/MB experts to change the direction of the current ob administration policies that has allowed brutal sharia, and enemy doctrine to creep into existence in the U.S. and grow worldwide. The new administration needs to be aware and prepared to end this infiltration and deception since it has been massive, steady and clever. I don’t think Romney is prepared to grasp that the MB is not moderate, aids terrorism,nor would do anything, but try to avoid the facts, since truth is currently labeled as slander.
Mazo says
So the Obama administration, which rejected CAIR and the Muslim Brotherhood’s request to militarily intervene in Syria against Assad for years, is apparently infiltrated by the Muslim Brotherhood. Yet the Muslim Brotherhood cannot do him to do what they want.
Come up with a better cock and bull story next time.
Romney promised to intervene in Syria against Assad when he was running in 2012 and criticized Obama for not intervening.
So when Obama pivots his military to Asia against China and stations troops in the Philippines, apparently his detractors believe this means Obama is pro-China. LOL.
Angemon says
Mazo posted:
“So the Obama administration, which rejected CAIR and the Muslim Brotherhood’s request to militarily intervene in Syria against Assad for years, is apparently infiltrated by the Muslim Brotherhood. ”
Yes, it is.
“Yet the Muslim Brotherhood cannot do him to do what they want.
Come up with a better cock and bull story next time.”
Right, because the MB can’t make the Obama administration do any and everything they want therefore the Obama administration can not have MB infiltrators… Go take a remedial class in formal logic ASAP.
Demsci says
Your post resonates well with me. So far I heard that Trump has advisers like Steve Bannon, Frank Gaffney, Walid Phares,Michael Flynn, (no favorites of the SPLC either). This bodes well. And there are still John Bolton and Rudy Giuliani to choose from.
Islam the religion of killers says
I believe Mitt Romney is just smoke & mirrors, Trump is waiting until the end of the selections before picking SoS, just listening to what everyone is saying, the confused media will pull all sorts of info into the mix, as will actors with their alliances ..
Stan Lee says
The possibility of Romney shouldn’t excite CAIR too much! We all know what CAIR’s ultimate agenda is and if Romney is confirmed by Trump, there will still be Trump and his most trusted for “America first” people looking over Romney’s shoulder. If Romney is appointed and doesn’t prove to be motivated after a brief trial, he will hear Trump’s well known words, “You’re fired.” Yes, he did it to Chris Christie very quickly, and Mitt Romney would be wise to decide now if he can be properly aggressive in a Trump cabinet, because Trump will expect positive performance from his appointees.
Don McKellar says
That is an excellent point. Trump has no problem whatsoever in firing people who don’t deliver. Completely unlike wet blanket Obama.
Steve Klein says
“If Romney is appointed and doesn’t prove to be motivated after a brief trial…”
Please. Stop. Romney is an apologist for Islam.
PRCS says
Remember, as a “true believer” Ayloush hates Mormons as much as he hates any other “unbeliever”.
gravenimage" says
So true, PRCS.
Demsci says
PRCS, you are no doubt spot on.
And now you see a Phenomenom that people like Trump, Wilders, Ayaan Hirsi Ali etc cause;
When there would be only political correct leaders and activists, the Muslims would react indignantly react to the flimsiest of hurt feelings experienced by them according to them caused by the sayings and doings and beings of any “Kuffar” politician or activist.
But when people like Trump, Wilders, Ali go all the way in ruthlessly exposing and opposing Islam.
THEN the Muslims suddenly become sensitive to “less hating, more reasonable” kuffar politicians, and activists.
It looks to me like the bad cops (Trump, Wilders, Ali) make Muslims move strategically towards excusing and engaging the “good cops”, like a Mitt Romney, Kuffar though he is.
The Mitt Romneys have the Trumps to thank for the more and more amenable compromising attitude from Muslims to them.
Angemon says
Hussam, baby, Mitt’s magical underwear will not help you.
Hussam’s Twitter profile lists him as a “community organizer”. Gee, what a surprise…
common sense says
“Arab spring chant”? We just overthrew the existing crappy executive government, Ayloush clearly wants to skewer the Trump admin and forward his progress of Islamasizing the halls of our political, educational and media institutions with the remains of ignorant and failed policy.
Trump called Romney a “choke job” on his 2012 campaign failure so this is strange news.
As gov of MA Romney proposed severe tax increases on anyone making over 1 million per year. 85% of millionaires left MA. Its the same reason big companies leave the US, dis-connected and malfunctioning public servants who think they know better than the people. Romney has proven to be the wrong man for the job especially after opposing Trump during and after the primary. While no one is as bad as self serving libslime I doubt this man will be able to function under a “borders and laws” Trump.
“Borders and laws” are why we wanted Trump to keep America America and make her great again not just in economy but in how we think about what being an American really is and how out of touch and literally violently opposed to that belief some people are.
Romney represents a “republicrat” view to me not a voice of reason with a clear outside view.
Ambassador John Bolton is best guy for the job. He’d shut CAIR and he rest of them down fast and he would stifle Iran.
marina says
“CAIR Leader: Overthrow the U.S. Government,”
We ( the patriots of U.S) say “overthrow CAIR”
El Cid says
Mitt Romney–perfect choice. He understands what it means standup and promote a religion. We do not want a person dealing with the enemy who is confused about religion.
Steve Klein says
Romney, unlike Trump, fought Christian conservative delegates on our 2012 National platform writing committee in behalf of “Palestinian” savages.
Carmel says
Alex Jones is a friend of Donald J Trump , Roger Stone and other peoples who have now power in this country .
This morning , I wrote to Alex Jones about this post of Jihad Watch .
I supported Trump mainly because I didn’t want HUMA ABEDIN in the WHITE HOUSE. We are not to get another one , just the same , at her place.
Do like me : write to Alex Jones via his web site . It can make a difference!!!!!
Voytek Gagalka says
What??? If that will be the case and Mr. Romney is indeed appointed as the SoS, it will seriously undermine whole Trump administration and from its start. NO WAY that it should pass! I hope that it is only “fake” green-leftist news and will not materialize but… BEWARE of first warning sign!
IQ al Rassooli says
Can Muslims be Loyal Citizens?
Dear Americans, I challenge any follower of Muhammad the sum of $200,000 to refute what I state and declare herein.
Muslims abhor and are terrified of the TRUTH especially when revealing the horrible and Satanic characteristics of the foundations of their Cult Belief System.
I would like you all to understand that every single believing or fundamentalist Muslim must follow the two pillars that are the foundations of Sharia: Muhammad’s Quran and Muhammad’s Sunna.
Sharia is utterly incompatible with all human freedoms and dignities and hence must never be allowed to take root in any of our democracies.
Please be aware, that contrary to all of the Muslims’ false propaganda, platitudes and accusations, we none Muslims do not discriminate against them because it is they who victimize us (none Muslims; 80% of current humanity) whom they call Infidels/ Kuffar; all those who do not believe as they do.
Moreover, since Sharia incites its followers in every Mosque and Madrassa (religious Islamic school) to abhor, disobey and insult our laws, institutions, constitutions and our personal humanity, then based on the rule of law prohibiting hate speech against other human beings, this alone should disallow Sharia’s voice from ever being expressed on our soil.
Considering the fact that we in the West have accepted and welcomed about 60 millions of them who came begging and crawling to our countries, then their accusation that we do not allow them to integrate is utterly false.
We have given them shelter, education, medication, freedom of belief and thought, financial help etc from our hard earned taxes and they show us their gratitude by disrespecting our laws, our freedoms, our beliefs in our own countries and undermining our hospitality, traditions and security by attempting to bring to our shores the very depraved Sharia that they had escaped from, in the first place.
It is they who are not willing or able to integrate because they are prohibited by Sharia from ever assimilating into or among us, the Infidels.
Hence, what I am about to state or reveal to you with relevant Quranic and Hadith references have absolutely nothing to do with hate speech, racism or the fraudulent and Muslim self serving term of Islamophobia.
The following is a list of questions that each and everyone of you outside the land of Islam, that is in the territory of the Infidel peoples, should ask yourselves and the Muslims.
Can any believing Muslim in the land of the Unbelievers be a good, law abiding, integrated and loyal citizen in our countries?
Theologically – NO. . . Because Muslims submit only to Allah. As you well know by now, Allah is originally only the name of the supreme god of Pagan Arabia among 360 other stone deities- and hence most definitely not the same as the God of Jesus, Moses or Abraham.
Religiously – NO. . . Because no other religion is accepted under Sharia except Islam (Submission to Allah).
Al Imran 3: 85 “If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah) never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost”
Scripturally – NO. . . Because the Muslim’s allegiance is to Sharia based upon Muhammad’s Quran and Sunna.
Textually – NO … Because Muhammad’s Quran and Sunna are Hatemongering, Warmongering, Misogynist, Racist & hence most definitely UNGODLY.
Geographically – NO. . . Because Muslims bow in reverence to Mecca in Arabia, to which they turn in prayer five times a day.
Socially – NO. . . Because the Muslims’ devotion to Islam forbids them from ever making true friends with Christians or Jews ~
Al Mai’da 5: 51 “O ye who believe! take not the Jews [Yahood] and the Christians [Nasara] for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them…”
Al Tauba 9: 29 “Fight [qatiloo] those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His apostle nor acknowledge the religion of truth [ISLAM] (even if they are) of the People of the Book [Christians & Jews] until they pay the Jizya [onerous Poll Tax] with willing submission and feel themselves humiliated”
Loyally – NO … Because Muslims’ allegiance is primarily to ALL other Muslims all over the globe.
Al Mumtahana 60: 1 “O ye who believe! take not My enemies and yours [Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, etc] as friends (or protectors) …
Al Tahrim 66: 9 “O Prophet! strive hard against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites [Christians, Jews & other non Muslims] and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell an evil refuge (indeed).
Ishaq:231 “Muslims are one ummah (community) to the exclusion of all men. Believers are friends of one another to the exclusion of all outsiders.”
Politically – No. . . Because Muslims must take instructions from their mullahs (spiritual Leaders), who teach them equal opportunity HATRED for ALL those who are not followers of Muhammad
(currently 80% of humanity called Ummat al Kuffar/ Nation of Infidels comprising all Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Zoroasterians, Jews, Animists, Agnostics, Atheists, Pagans, etc) .
Al Anfal 8: 55 “ For the worst of beasts in the sight of Allah are those who reject Him: They will not believe”
Al Fath 48: 13 “And if any believe not in Allah and His Apostle We have prepared for those who reject Allah a Blazing Fire!
Domestically – No. . . Because Muslims are instructed by Muhammad’s Quran to marry up to four women and beat and scourge their wives when they disobey them
Al Nisaa 4:34 “Men are the protectors and maintainers of women because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other and because they support them from their means. … As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct admonish them; refuse to share their beds; beat them …”
Legally – No. . . Because Muslims cannot accept the American & European Constitution as binding since they are not from Allah as well as they believe that the Bible has been corrupted and hence is now ungodly.
Culturally- NO… Because Muslims belong to a culture that prefers Death than Life.
Ibrahim 14: 3 “Those who love the life of this world more than the Hereafter who hinder (men) from the Path of Allah and seek therein something crooked: they are astray by a long distance”
Constitutionally – No. . . Because Sharia is the nemesis of Democracy; it does not allow for freedoms of religion, expression or belief.
Democracy and Islam is an oxymoron; a state of affairs that cannot possibly co-exist. Every Muslim government in the world is dictatorial, autocratic or theocratic.
Spiritually – No. . . Because the Judeo- Christian tradition believes in a loving fatherly God while Allah is NEVER referred to as Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in the Quran’s 99 excellent attributes.
Moreover, Muhammad truly believed and asserted in his Quran & Sunna that those who die in Islam are physically recreated in his whorehouse version of Paradise to enjoy sexual, carnal and sensual pleasures for eternity.
1400 years ago, Muhammad declared: SILENCE means CONSENT!
Maybe this is why European and American Muslims are so deafeningly quiet and not speaking out about all the world wide atrocities allegedly committed by so called ‘radical’ Muslims.
Not once in the last thirty years, has there been a major demonstration – whether in Europe or the USA – by the so called ‘silent majority’ Muslims expressing their revulsion at acts of terror committed by these alleged ‘radicals’ shouting out loud “NOT IN OUR NAME!”
Therefore, after much study, contemplation and deliberation, Europeans and Americans should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in their midst especially all organizations that call themselves Islamic.
They obviously cannot be both ‘good’ Muslims and loyal Europeans or Americans.
Call these shocking revelations or whatever you will, but these are the FACTS based entirely in chapter and verse upon the Muslim scripture.
Europeans and Americans had better believe this. The more who understand these realities, the better it will be for our democracies and our future generations to survive the onslaught of Muhammadan Islam.
The clash between Islam and the rest of humanity is most definitely NOT a clash of Civilizations but most assuredly a clash of Beliefs and Cultures.
Muslims have PUBLICLY and repeatedly declared their intention to Islamise Europe and the USA from within. Europeans and Americans would be utterly insane and suicidal by ignoring these warnings.
Ladies and gentlemen, please remember at all times:
FREEDOM NEVER COMES FREE.
IQ al Rassooli
Kafir & Proud!
gravenimage" says
All true–Muslims can never be loyal citizens of any Infidel state.
Raptor says
Now that’s what I call FREE Speech…..nailed it.
Demsci says
You make a good case for Democratic Tolerant societies to limit Freedom of religion
due to the religion of Islam arguably being anti-Democratic and too Intolerant itself.
To set this in reasonable terms, designed to get to a 51 % majority in Western Democratic Nations;
Yes, we can discriminate against Muslims in certain humane ways, due to:
– Islam being either clearly anti-Democratic and inciting against “unbelievers laws being inferior to Allah’s laws” and loyalty of Muslims to Kuffars against other hostile Muslims”.
– Islam, unlike skincolor, for adults being a CHOICE.
However painful, it IS possible for Muslims, esp.residing in Democratic Nations, to CHOOSE another religion, ideology or no ideology and let the outside world know it.
If we put forward as our official policy that “Islam is unclear, vague, multi-interpretable, due to obsoleteness, incompleteness, mixed medieval influences and what not”,
then we can still give Muslims the choice of staying in Islam but transferring highest loyalty to democratic nation she/ he lives in and democratic laws she/ he lives under, because then multi-interpretability of Islam makes Muslims flexible enough for that.
But in the long run no longer should total freedom of religion and total neutrality of Muslims in Democratic nations be tolerated by 51 % majorities, parliaments of those democratic nations.
Baucent says
Where’s Mazo?
gravenimage" says
Hamas-linked CAIR leader who called for overthrow of US government thrilled Romney could be Trump’s Secretary of State
……………………………..
His calling for the overthrow of the US government should not surprise–Jihad Watch regular Muslim troll “DefenderofIslam” just a couple of days ago was demanding that there be a military coup to install Hillary Clinton as president.
What is really appalling is that this Muslim creep is treated as a rational actor.
By the way, while Mitt Romney–foolishly–has criticized Donald Trump on banning Muslims until they can be vetted for Jihadists, Hussam Ayloush might be disturbed to find that Romney is nonetheless quite solidly anti-Jihad:
Wellington says
My understanding of the Mormon belief system is that it officially recognizes Mohamed as a legitimate religious and prophetic figure. Even abject dhimmi Catholic and Protestant authorities, who regularly make excuses for the spiritual fascism which is Islam and for the psychopath who reputedly founded said religion, don’t “officially” go this far.
Anyone care to comment? As one who abhors Islam and the character of Mohammed, I would be most interested in feed back here. And I would close here by averring that I harbor no overall disrespect for the Mormon faith. Indeed, Mormons take care of their own kind and overwhelmingly tend to be loyal Americans, so I do not want what I have stated here to be interpreted as a general condemnation of The Church of Latter Day Saints, but on the specific matter of said church respecting Mohammed, if my understanding of its official position is correct, then I would assert said church needs to reconsider matters big time. Again, I welcome commentary of an instructive and informed kind. Most surely I do.
gravenimage says
Wellington wrote:
My understanding of the Mormon belief system is that it officially recognizes Mohamed as a legitimate religious and prophetic figure. Even abject dhimmi Catholic and Protestant authorities, who regularly make excuses for the spiritual fascism which is Islam and for the psychopath who reputedly founded said religion, don’t “officially” go this far.
…………………………….
Unfortunately, it appears that Joseph Smith based a great deal of Mormonism on Islam, Wellington. He styled himself a “Prophet” like Mohamed, practiced polygamy, and–most disturbingly–early apostates were often killed. “Patriarchs” often served almost as mini-warlords.
More:
Anyone care to comment? As one who abhors Islam and the character of Mohammed, I would be most interested in feed back here. And I would close here by averring that I harbor no overall disrespect for the Mormon faith. Indeed, Mormons take care of their own kind and overwhelmingly tend to be loyal Americans, so I do not want what I have stated here to be interpreted as a general condemnation of The Church of Latter Day Saints, but on the specific matter of said church respecting Mohammed, if my understanding of its official position is correct, then I would assert said church needs to reconsider matters big time. Again, I welcome commentary of an instructive and informed kind. Most surely I do.
…………………………….
I seldom make much of the above, because the modern Church of Latter Day Saints has long since rejected much that was so objectionable about Mormonism.
Sometimes splinter sects show up, though, that practice polygamy and pedophilia and various other forms of child abuse, including ousting “excess” boys. Mitt Romney himself came from a family with some of these tendencies (though not as bad, from what I understand, as someone like Warren Jeffs).
So far as I know, Mitt Romney himself is now part of the mainstream LDS Church, and so I accept him. Far from perfect, but I did vote for him in 2012.
But yes–troubling stuff. Islam has a *lot* to answer for, including warping this sect.
A personal aside–my roommate when I was first at Berkeley was a Mormon woman. We made an odd pair in the Co-op–I was the youngest student in the house at 17, and she was the eldest at 40. She had unhappily divorced–a relative rarity among Mormons at the time–and was staying in the Co-ops because of budget, as was I. It had been a big step for her to leave Utah and go back to school, as it was for me to get off the streets and attend University. We had more in common, in an odd way, than you might think.
One night, we drove up to the beautiful Mormon Temple, all lit up in the Oakland hills, and looked out over the whole bay to San Francisco.
Here is the view:
http://mormonmessenger.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/mormon-temple-oakland-california-night.jpg
awake says
Never gonna happen. Trump trolling the media, yet again.
underbed cat says
I sure hope Trump is not distracted by the democrat pressure, into making quick decisions and can block out the media somewhat from the incessant. polarizing chatter and sticks with his plans.
Baucent says
I may be wrong, but it would surprise me if Romney got the nod for S of S. The meeting is probably more for Trumps benefit than Romney’s. Trump gets to project Presidential qualities and not look like he’s still bitter about what Romney said during the campaign. Though he might offer him an Ambassador position somewhere.
Buddyboy says
I’ve been watching these CAIR spokespeople on TV. They have perfected the language of the ACLU and are skilllfully using our laws and Constitution to subvert American society. They are saying all the “right” things while infiltrating the American landscape. Given their methods of operation in other nations when they get some power and increase their voting power we will be seeing requests then demands for “accommodation” regarding doing things the Muslim way.
As time goes by it will get worse and before you know it we will have two different societies and legal systems within the USA. Theocracy is their ultimate goal and their own legal system.
CAIR is in fact a subversive organization posing as a Civil rights group. Obama opened the door and allowed the seeds to be planted by this group and the Muslim Brotherhoood. All they need now is TIME!
gravenimage says
I think Yes–Muslims are more than happy to use our freedoms to undermine our civilized societies.
Brennan Kingsland says
Although I do not think that Romney will be chosen as SOS, I think we all need to take into consideration how prevalent the Muslim law of taqiyya (lying to advance Islam) has been utilized by Islamists against the West so effectively. Methinks that we might want to remember the rabbit telling the fox “Please don’t throw me in that-there briar patch” before we accept ANYTHING this Islamist creep says. Remember, Muslims hate Mormons as much as any other non-Muslim.
Carolyne says
Mitt Romney is an idiot. (I seem to be using that word a lot, recently. I can’t think of another word which will do.) He was a failure as a Presidential candidate, he instituted Mittcare in Massachusetts, very similar to Obamacare, and anyone who thinks some God wants him to wear a certain underwear with magic symbols on it is mentally deranged.
Jerome Borden says
I wonder why Mr. Trump didn’t propose Romney as the Treasury Secretary since he has a proven track record on the money front? There’s another reason to question him being in State: Mitt is weak on the Second Amendment with a record going back to the 2002 Winter Olympics. ITAR is part of State and has been involved in anti-Second Amendment activities under the Obama Regime. This stuff needs to stop and I’m not sure about Mitt in this area.
American-Pragmatism says
American Pragmatism strongly endorses Donald J Trump not naming Romney to a position following their meeting.
UNCLE VLADDI says
There is no way Trump will let Romney become Secretary of State.
More Ham Ed says
One either agrees with what Jesus said, or you don’t.
One either places Him & what He said above all else, or you don’t.
Don’t breath your last breath without taking time to READ.
More Ham Ed says
A quick “Mormonism for Idiots” video:
T Whitfield says
WHY is CAIR allowed to stay in the US? What must be done to have this anti-American organization taken down and if applicable, the members deported?