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Jihad Watch

Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

The forgotten European slaves of Islamic Barbary North Africa and Islamic Ottoman Turkey

Nov 25, 2016 12:03 pm By Robert Spencer

“Ohio State University history Professor Robert Davis describes the White Slave Trade as minimized by most modern historians in his book Christian Slaves, Muslim Masters: White Slavery in the Mediterranean, the Barbary Coast and Italy, 1500–1800 (Palgrave Macmillan).”

“White slavery” is a common term, but it is unfortunate, as the slaves described in this video were not captured and enslaved because they were white, but because they were non-Muslim. Their capture and enslavement was based on elements of Islamic law that are still part of that law in all its various permutations and manifestations.

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Comments

  1. JIMJFOX says

    Nov 25, 2016 at 12:20 pm

    Muslim slavers raided England, too. As a kid of 6 I recall a beach festival called “Turk Town” in a small Cornish village where local fishermen blacked up & dressed in ‘Moorish’ costume with turbans and scimitars rowed ashore in mock battle. Terrified me!
    Historical records say that village was in fact called Turktown for a short time in the long-distant past.

    • PRCS says

      Nov 25, 2016 at 12:25 pm

      Too few know the history.

    • gravenimage says

      Nov 25, 2016 at 1:34 pm

      Here’s the story of Muslim pirates raiding Devon and Cornwall:

      “How West communities faced 300 years of terror from Barbary pirates”

      http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk/west-communities-faced-300-years-terror-barbary/story-19641515-detail/story.html

      • PRCS says

        Nov 25, 2016 at 2:40 pm

        Too few have even a clue how far and wide–or for how long–THOSE slave traders operated, or that slavery still exists (even to this day in some places).

      • JIMJFOX says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 10:54 am

        ‘gravenimage’

        Brilliant research, G.I. I failed to find the depth and detail you did, so thanks.
        Will send the URL to family back in Plymouth, UK- most of whom are not only
        older than I but pretty much ignorant of Islam and its ways; such is the deceit
        of UK media and Government.

        • gravenimage says

          Nov 26, 2016 at 2:42 pm

          Thank you for that story, Jim.

          My mother was English, and knew nothing of this history, either.

    • Scott says

      Nov 25, 2016 at 9:28 pm

      Muslim Corsairs raided Iceland and sacked towns over 3,000 residents. They were taken back to the Magreb and almost all died within the year due to inclement differences.

    • Ron says

      Nov 26, 2016 at 3:19 pm

      Few people realize that many coastal areas of Western Europe became virtually uninhabited because of Muslim efforts to procure slaves there.

      • gravenimage says

        Nov 27, 2016 at 5:00 pm

        This is very true, Ron–coasts have always been a natural place to settle, because of the opportunities for fishing and travel by ship. But Europeans had to turn inland and northward for centuries because of the threat from Muslim pirates.

        The whole of southern Europe had been oriented toward the Levant and North Africa–the Romans referred to the Mediterranean Sea as “Mare Nostrum”, or “our sea”. That ended after ravening Muslims conquered these lands and began pirating any Infidel land within striking distance.

    • Hari Singh says

      Nov 26, 2016 at 4:24 pm

      The inhabitants of Baltimore, County Cork Ireland were entirely kidnapped by Barbary pirates who many were actually Jani Cheri soldiers of the Ottoman sultan who waged constant jihad against the West.
      Many of those like their African counterparts in Muslim slavery were subject to castration from which many died, to supply eunuchs for the various harems of the Empire.This explains why the lion share of African DNA is mitochondria DNA, or from females. All too many male slaves died in the castration procedure.They were worse than Dr. Mengele at Aushwitz.
      The West ultimate conquest of North Africa was to stop these attacks.

  2. PRCS says

    Nov 25, 2016 at 12:25 pm

    Now, damn it, why at 3:10 does the narrator describe them as “Muslim terrorists back in those days, these “extremists”?

    What is the point in regurgitating that crap?

    If asked, would he be able to explain how Muslim “extremists” differ from other Muslims?

    • gravenimage says

      Nov 25, 2016 at 1:27 pm

      I think he is just tying things into what is happening today, so that people see the link between history and the present day. I don’t believe his intent is to whitewash Islam.

      • PRCS says

        Nov 25, 2016 at 2:04 pm

        We have to rely upon what he said, not what he meant.

        You and I both know that “extremist” nonsense is just that.

        • gravenimage says

          Nov 26, 2016 at 2:49 pm

          Of course, PRCS. But he is illuminating an important and largely forgotten part of Jihad history. There are, I believe, many people who need taking to task before Professor Robert Davis.

    • Shmooviyet says

      Nov 25, 2016 at 2:04 pm

      Only a select portion of the population had the wealth to acquire slaves: 40 for the sheik, 30 for each wife– very expensive.
      Most muslims were simply too poor to own even one.
      No redistribution from sheik to shepherd!
      The average muslim had no slaves to kill or mistreat in an extreme or ‘terroristic’ way.

      (A 21st c. professor/apologist might try to weave that nonsense together and offer it as one difference between old-timey radical and moderate.. just a suggestion.)

      • PRCS says

        Nov 25, 2016 at 2:24 pm

        The deceit will continue so long as the bogus notion of “radical” vs “moderate” continues.

        • Hari Singh says

          Nov 28, 2016 at 7:08 pm

          There are two kinds of Muslim-the vanguard jihadis and the critical mass that sustains them covers them or fears them.
          Polls show widespread jihadi opinions amongst the practitioners of the religion of peace.
          Islamic Democracy equals fundamentalist jihadi control, whether the jihad is against other Muslims-Shias or Christians, and of course the old standby Jews and Israel-with no understanding of any difference between them.
          After the Jihad of partition of India without Muslims India’s Panjabi returned to peace, what’s the formula no muslims is peace.
          Today African and Filipino and other are enslaved in many muslim countries ones the USA is ”allies” with.

      • Vann Boseman says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 2:38 am

        I do not recall that Davis explored the subject of individual Muslims owning slaves. He did not have to do that in order to shed light on this material that has been suppressed and ignored for so long. The magnitude of the practice is now recognized as far more extensive than thought by most historians just 20 years ago. The Barbary pirates are important, but just the tip of the iceberg when considering the overall extent of the Islamic culture towards black Africans.

      • gravenimage says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 2:55 pm

        Shmooviyet, you appear to believe that slavery was a rarity in the Muslim world; it *was not*. Many slaves were not owned by individual Muslims, but by the local thug leader and the Islamic state.

        Even today in Mauritania, and estimated *17%* of the population there is enslaved.

  3. Walter Sieruk says

    Nov 25, 2016 at 12:42 pm

    It had been revealed which is entitled JESUS AND THE JIHADIS by the tow Christian authors s ,Grag A. Evens and Jeremiah J Johnson about the founder and prophet of Islam, Muhammad , who all Muslims look to as the supreme example of the man to follow About this Muhammad this book exposes that “he endorsed sex-slavery as a gift from Allah, and enjoyed offering sex-slaves as gifts…” page 124. Furthermore, with the view of slavery in the light of history .on page 125 it exposes that “Islam has enslaved more people than any other culture.” On that same page it further inform the reader that “A little known fact is is that the highest priced slave in Mecca was always a White women. The Sunna is that Muhammad ‘s favorite sex-slave was a White women.”
    In spite of all the facts of reality the propagandists for Islam still have the gall to make the totally false claim the Islam respects human rights and also respects women.

    • Ron says

      Nov 26, 2016 at 3:29 pm

      This despicable pseudo-religion has captured the minds of millions largely because every Muslim society is immersed in it so thoroughly that its core beliefs have taken on the appearance of reality. Because critical thinking is not allowed, and the effort to leave it is punishable by death it has sealed the door of reason and by doing so guaranteed its own destruction over time.

  4. 762x51FMJ says

    Nov 25, 2016 at 12:48 pm

    They even went to Iceland and captured entire villages bringing the women and girls back home to be sold on the block as lifetime sex slaves..

    [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcm8vzGQWF8&w=560&h=315%5D

    • PRCS says

      Nov 25, 2016 at 2:32 pm

      Correct URL?

      Interesting vid, though.

    • gravenimage says

      Nov 25, 2016 at 2:46 pm

      Yes–the Muslim raids on Iceland were in the 17th century. Almost no coast in Europe was safe.

  5. Walter Sieruk says

    Nov 25, 2016 at 12:50 pm

    On the topic history of those Muslims who were Barbary pirates and America. The above film stated about those Muslim pirates that “They only understood the use of force.” That film statement echoed the wisdom of Thomas Jefferson who had declared, many about those Muslim pirates “With every barbarous people…force is law.”

  6. Hector Archytas says

    Nov 25, 2016 at 12:57 pm

    Read a lot about this. The main difference between African American slavery and white slav can’t have a familly. They are more like in a concentration camp than slave. They are just authorized to live a little longer for the profiot of the masters. The only one who did reproduce themselves are female slave in Harem. In those circunstance, they ahve no descendant to apply for their human right in muslim countries and to change the nature of Islam.

    This is likely to come back in XXII century Europe whence White European would become a minority again as we can read in the post of some French mohamedan ready to take over the country

    • gravenimage says

      Nov 25, 2016 at 2:47 pm

      Don’t give up yet. Why are you preaching surrender here?

      • Ernie says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 5:53 am

        Good advice and good question Gravenimage ; thank you !

        • gravenimage says

          Nov 26, 2016 at 2:59 pm

          Thank you, Ernie.

    • Ernie says

      Nov 26, 2016 at 5:46 am

      Dear Hector Archytas , pull yourself together ,we need strength !

  7. gravenimage says

    Nov 25, 2016 at 1:28 pm

    The forgotten European slaves of Islamic Barbary North Africa and Islamic Ottoman Turkey
    ………………………..

    All too few Westerners know anything about this history–it is shameful that it is not taught.

    • Allan says

      Nov 25, 2016 at 1:51 pm

      Maybe we should call it shamelessly scandalous, given the ideals and motivations of the people (usu. secularists and humanists, I suspect) who are responsible for determining curricula in the schools where most people are processed.

      • gravenimage says

        Nov 25, 2016 at 2:48 pm

        I don’t believe this history was ever much taught in the schools–not in Britain, and not in the US. This is not a recent thing.

        • Allan says

          Nov 25, 2016 at 4:14 pm

          You are correct, I think, about an old habit of neglecting relevant history in schools, but contemporary standards of education appear to complicate that problem greatly with the pernicious ideals of multiculturalism. So now there is not only the old neglect of relevant truth but also an aggressive hostility to teaching the truth about Islam and Muslims.

        • linnte says

          Nov 25, 2016 at 11:10 pm

          I had never heard the reason for the forming of our Marines or of Muslim pirates until I ventured onto Jihad Watch. Heck, even the movie “Pirates of the Caribbean” is about Barbery pirates, but does anyone understand this? It never crossed my mind! Jack Sparrow is a good guy right? WRONG! This really is all part of creeping Shari’a.

          This video was very enlightening. Thanks! Shared.

        • gravenimage says

          Nov 26, 2016 at 3:06 pm

          Very true, Allan.

        • gravenimage says

          Nov 26, 2016 at 3:26 pm

          As a child I had not idea about this, either, Linnte. I remember when I looked up “Tripoli” from the Marine Hymn, and was surprised to find it was in North Africa.

          Neither my teacher or school librarian had the slightest idea about it.

          Later, I read a bit about the Barbary Pirates, but still had no real idea for years that this was part of the centuries-long Jihad against the West.

          This is a part of our history that we should be very proud of–the Americans beginning to fight back and inspiring the British and French to do the same opened the whole of the Mediterranean for free and safe trade for the first time in *over a thousand years*.

          Even if it were not for the terrible resurgent Jihad threat, this is something every Western schoolchild should know.

          Just one small point–the pirates of the Caribbean were not the same as the Barbary Pirates. Most of them were Westerners, not Muslims. They were still a pretty violent and lawless bunch for the most part, but were not part of the Jihad.

          You can still enjoy the Pirates of the Caribbean movies, guilt-free.

    • overman says

      Nov 25, 2016 at 6:03 pm

      Yes, they only hear about the so-called Golden Age of lslam.

      • Sibila says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 9:27 am

        Yeah, the Golden Age of Islam:: an enslavement of all ancient knowledge together with all of the Christian keepers of the Reson, and putting them all under Islamic name, as any other routine Islamic loot, that is what was the Golden Age of Islam made from.

        Islam is again on the move, and together with its old allies (yatak, tur.) – corrupt domestic locals (leftists), it is on its rampage one more time to subjugate The Other.

        • overman says

          Nov 26, 2016 at 5:23 pm

          Yes, the ‘Third Wave’.

  8. Alarmed Pig Farmer says

    Nov 25, 2016 at 2:15 pm

    I believe the first year of Jefferson’s presidency just over 50% of the fed’l budget was payments to Barbary jihad kidnappers.

    • gravenimage says

      Nov 25, 2016 at 2:53 pm

      And even that wasn’t enough. So we put together a navy and marine corps and went in after our kidnapped seamen.

    • Kepha says

      Nov 26, 2016 at 10:42 am

      And Morocco’s ambassador point blank told us that Allah had commanded the capture and enslvaement of infidels, unless they pay tribute. It took tribute in the form of cannonballs and beating up on a couple of his neighbors to convince his government otherwise.

      • gravenimage says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 3:34 pm

        Very true, Kepha.

  9. Angemon says

    Nov 25, 2016 at 2:43 pm

    “White slavery” is a common term, but it is unfortunate, as the slaves described in this video were not captured and enslaved because they were white, but because they were non-Muslim. Their capture and enslavement was based on elements of Islamic law that are still part of that law in all its various permutations and manifestations.

    Indeed. And yet, in an age where the usual suspects equate slavery with racism and state that only whites/Europeans can be racists (because “racism” is redefined as “prejudice plus power”), the term “white slaves” throws a very big wrench into their narrative.

    • Kepha says

      Nov 26, 2016 at 9:52 am

      Indeed, the same thing was happening to non-Muslim black people in Africa, only overland.

      Last summer, when I visited southern Italy and Sicily, I learned that until the 19th century, most of the population of those regions stayed inland–the reason for all those picturesque hilltop villages–due to the depradations of the Corsairs from Tripoli, Tunis, Algiers, and Morocco. Further, the poison belladonna took its name because it was used in controlled doses to put the women of villages into a death-like sleep to keep the Muslim slavers from taking them ( a little like one tribe in Africa that put large disks in their women’s lips to make them repulsive to slave raiders?).

  10. ibrahim itace muhammed says

    Nov 25, 2016 at 3:40 pm

    filthy christians are masters of deceptions and lies.they want cover up their savage transatlantic slave trade and cruel treatment of african slaves and shift the blame to muslims.history has accurately recorded how white european christians shipped black slaves from africa to americas accross atlantic ocean in an inhuman manner just like animals.those who were found old and sick not fit for hard labour were thrown into deep sea water and eatened by sharks.mrs mischel obama, a descendant of africa slaves,will educate you more on this scenario when she visited slave concentration camp museum in ghana.such inhuman treatment of slave is explicitly enshrined in the mithraist evil bible(the book of genocide and phornography).the quran never enjoine muslims to have slaves for hard labour.it is only in some exceptional circumstance under very strigent conditions prescibed by sharia that is permitted.first you must not maltreat him or impose hard labour on him.if you breach any of the conditions,the slave has the right to sue the master before a court complaining breach of any of the conditions.if the slave prove his case the court will free the slave.again,islam encourages muslims to voluntarily free their slaves as an act of devotion to atract rewards from allah.prophet muhammad was the first person who set his slave zaid bn thabit free and brought him closer to him just like his natural son.if slave is a woman, sharia law says the moment she gives birth to a child she is automatically free.thus, those slaves disappeared in most muslim societies.see ali mazrui on african slavery.but there are traditionalist muslims who acquired slaves contrary to sharia provisions.some muslim scholars are working hard to get them free these illegal slaves.these are the types of slaves christian deceivers are calling islamic slaves in places like mauritania.they are not islamic because they were acquired illegally contrary to sharia provisions.note sharia provides that slaves can only be acquired as war prisoners not by way of suprise raiding of unarmed civilians.see hamidullah islam law of war and peace.

    • PRCS says

      Nov 25, 2016 at 4:20 pm

      Is this a poorly written fairy tale?

      • Jim says

        Dec 1, 2016 at 5:38 am

        This is why in America, they will never take our guns.

    • warmac9999 says

      Nov 25, 2016 at 4:24 pm

      You deny your own history. A history well documented in your own historical writings of conquest. You have driven Christianity to the point of extinction in the mid-east and you intend to do so in western Europe and the americas. You lie.

    • Falsafa says

      Nov 25, 2016 at 4:49 pm

      here here ibrahim itace muhammed! – but I wouldn’t waste my breath on this motley crew of bigots and racists rallying behind Mr Spencer’s colonialist supremacist agenda. This like so many of Mr Spencer’s hate filled brainwashing agenda serving as a rallying cry for the KKK white supremacist fan club is nothing more than self serving propaganda. Let the Spencer fan club continue to feed on this trough of propaganda…it only makes them look more sad and desperate. Let them continue to ignore the suffering that their ancestors have caused…African Slave trade, genocide of both the north and south american indians…all this rambling by these bigots is nothing more than the pot calling the kettle black. Let them be!

      • Ron says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 3:46 pm

        Your accusations are true. No American denies them. What we did to African slaves and native Americans was barbaric and a dark page in our history. The difference between us is that your religion still operates around the incredible cruelty and ignorance of a man who married a 6 year-old girl, ordered the murder of people who criticized him, murdered 700 Jewish captives, endorsed slavery and left a legacy of incredible ignorance, intolerance and avarice behind him.
        The evil of Islam is obvious to anyone outside the Muslim world, but this pernicious mental disease cannot withstand the truth. It will self destruct when its followers realize they have been duped by a mad man.

      • gravenimage says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 4:36 pm

        The ludicrously self-styled “Falsafa” wrote:

        here here ibrahim itace muhammed! – but I wouldn’t waste my breath on this motley crew of bigots and racists rallying behind Mr Spencer’s colonialist supremacist agenda.
        …………………………….

        Now opposing slavery is “racist”? This is ludicrous–Robert Spencer has condemned slavery of all ethnicities.

        ibrahim itace muhamed makes it clear here that Islamic slavery is perfectly Halal–does the vile “Falsafa” agree? He is cheering him on here, so one must suppose that this is the case.

        More:

        This like so many of Mr Spencer’s hate filled brainwashing agenda serving as a rallying cry for the KKK white supremacist fan club is nothing more than self serving propaganda.
        …………………………….

        The KKK was *pro* slavery–characterizing opposing slavery as a rallying cry for the KKK makes no sense whatsoever.

        More:

        Let the Spencer fan club continue to feed on this trough of propaganda…it only makes them look more sad and desperate.
        …………………………….

        What has Robert Spencer said here that is incorrect? Notice that “Falsafa” cannot name a single point.

        More:

        Let them continue to ignore the suffering that their ancestors have caused…
        …………………………….

        Not at all. The transatlantic slave trade is, as I have noted, universally acknowledged and taught in every American school. What is largely forgotten is the *much larger* Muslim slave trade on which it was based.

        More:

        African Slave trade, genocide of both the north and south american indians…all this rambling by these bigots is nothing more than the pot calling the kettle black. Let them be!
        …………………………….

        Also universally acknowledged.

        What does “Falsafa” think of his coreligionists enslaving victims *today*? Given his lauding the post of the semi-literate ibrahim itace muhammed, we can only assume that he heartily *agrees with it*. *Ugh*. What a barbarian.

    • reyol says

      Nov 25, 2016 at 6:18 pm

      Oh, okay. That makes sens…Wait a minute! Islam is ALWAYS at war with the ‘House of War’. So all the slaves are legal. You almost had me there, Ibrahim. Almost.

      • gravenimage says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 4:37 pm

        Very true, reyol.

    • overman says

      Nov 25, 2016 at 6:21 pm

      Yes, there was Slavery in America and Britain, but you conveniently left out the fact that those who were capturing and selling slaves in Africa were MUSLIMS.

      And this is what Thomas Jefferson was told by one of your muslim ambassadors at the time [it’s not much different now. Cesspit’s like Saudi Arabia, lran, Pakistan etc.. are receiving billions in foreign aid – hopefully Trump will put an end to that]:

      “Thomas Jefferson (1743 – 1826) was the third President of the United States, and the principal author of the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson was one of the most influential Founding Fathers, known for his promotion of the ideals of republicanism in the United States.
      In reference to the Islamic slave trade of Americans and Europeans by the Barbary states, Jefferson asked Tripoli’s envoy to London, Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman, by what right he extorted money and took slaves in this way. He answered:
      The ambassador answered us that [the right] was founded on the Laws of the Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have answered their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.[119][120]
      Jefferson later went to war with the Barbary states”

    • Trevor Bailey says

      Nov 25, 2016 at 7:20 pm

      ‘filthy christians are masters of deceptions and lies.they want cover up their savage transatlantic slave trade and cruel treatment of african slaves and shift the blame to muslims”. As usual muslims such as yourself are always in denial about the facts. Islam is responsible for the deaths of 270 Million people over 1,400 years and it has never stopped. https://www.politicalislam.com/tears-of-jihad/#virtue_comments

      Talking of deception and lies what about the practice of Deception, Lying, Taqiyya and Kitmsn” you know the saying “Islam is a religion of peace”

      In fact the false prophet of islam was a disgusting individual, mass murdering warlord:

      This quote from the Religion of Peace website describes the false profit perfectly.

      Muhammad is a narcissist, a pedophile, a mass murderer,
      a terrorist, a misogynist, a lecher, a cult leader, a madman
      a rapist, a torturer, an assassin and a looter.”

      Former Muslim Ali Sina offered $50,000 to anyone
      who could prove this wrong based on Islamic texts.

      The reward has gone unclaimed.

      OR better still have read of “The People Vs Muhammad” by J K Sheindlin and there you will see that it is “the false prophet muhammad who is filthy muslim and a master of deception.

      Why can’t you accept the fact that there were 1million europeans captured by islamist for slavery. Why can’t you accept that it was muslims who enslaved black africans (roughly 11 million) made them travel from Africa via the Sahara, North Africa onto Arabia. Why can’t you accept the fact it was muslims who enslaved black Africans and sold them onto the Europeans and so started the Atlantic slave trade.

      Still in denial? Still arrogant? Still ignorant? Still burying you head in the sand: then follow this link: https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2012/08/27/the-arab-slave-trade-and-200-million-non-muslim-slaves-of-all-skin-colors/

      • Granamo says

        Dec 28, 2016 at 12:10 am

        So true, and I’m in the know thanks to this thread I have looked into it and even learned that Muhammad himself was white (!) with black slaves. In the writings he comes across as very racist. How many Muslims (westerners either) know this?! Ignorance is widespread, and leaders of Islam have every reason to keep it that way. I am glad I came across this topic; also David Wood videos have shed more light on this than anything else I have read. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZxH4QYLRQY

        All his other videos are great too – such as “4 verses every Muslim needs to know.” Every Christian really needs to know them too! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TUHU-B4DaE

    • sinantara says

      Nov 25, 2016 at 7:55 pm

      the problem with Islam is this. Imagine you are driving a car and a Christian stops you and says, there is smoke coming out from under your car. You should check it. Your answer: What, you are insulting my car! Just because I am Muslim. And by insulting my car you’re insulting me!”
      “No, there is smoke coming out from under your car!”
      “You’re car is smoking too, you’re car is a wreck!”
      “I should check on your engine, you’re endangering yourself and others.”
      “Aha, there it is, Islamophobia! A Trump supporter! A Nazi!”
      “No, I mean maybe you’ve an oil leak and you’ll have a breakdown on the freeway and…”
      “You think that you know more about cars than I do? During our Golden Age we Muslims drove cars when you Europeans lived in caves, communicated by making barking sounds and ate frogs and grubs…”
      “No, I mean you should call a garage…”
      “Aha, you’re conspiring with a zionist crusader garage keeper to steal my car!”
      “No, I just want you to get off the road before an accident happen!”
      “Aha, you want me off the road because you hate Muslims. And if there is smoke coming out of my car it is because the Jews have sabotaged it.

      Cop: Hi, what is he matter, gentlemen?”
      “Officer, this man made racial slurs, he set fire to my car and wants to steal it.

      • overman says

        Nov 25, 2016 at 8:56 pm

        @sinantara A very precise analogy LOL

      • vladkoval says

        Nov 25, 2016 at 8:58 pm

        Exactly, sinantara!

      • Nico says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 4:55 am

        Excellent ! That would make a classic comic strip !

      • gravenimage says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 4:41 pm

        Hilarious and apt analogy, sinantara.

    • Kepha says

      Nov 26, 2016 at 10:35 am

      Ibrahim, your screed is full of nonsense.

      First of all, as a Christian, an American, and a history teacher, I can assure you we cover the Atlantic slave trade, and we do not minimize its horrors. The coverup is how the curriculum I am required to use makes abolition rooted in “enlightenment” and “radical” values rather than in the Christian theological concerns that actually motivated the anti-slavery movement’s founders.

      A very large difference between your religion and mine is that when mine discovers true, moral evil in its midst, and confronts and seeks reformation. To take an example, Spain’s American colonies began the large-scale import of African slaves because a tender-hearted but not very far-sighted priest by the name of Bartolome de Las Casas, shocked by the dying off of the Indians of the Caribbean and Central America due to lack of immunity to Old World diseases and maltreatment, urged the King of Spain to become the Indians’ protectors, and to import Africans for labor. After all, Las Casas argued, the Africans did not die of diseases and, were able to withstand heavy labor. Las Casas’ also pointed out to the Spanish King the example set by Spain’s own former colonial masters, the Muslims, who had introduced African slavery to the Peninsula. Las Casas, however, lived long enough to see the horrors brought on by the trans-Atlantic slave trade and protest loudly against them.

      There was also a major debate in Spain between the theologians Juan Gines Sepulveda, who argued that it was proper for Christians to conquer and enslave non-Christians, and Francisco Vitoria, who said that in exploring new lands for trade, Christians must continue to observe the laws of justice. Vitoria (also called Franciscus Victoria) is now looked on as one of the fathers of modern international law.

      A little before 1700, a Puritan colonial Massachusetts judge by the name of Samuel Sewall wrote a tract entitled _The Selliong of Joseph_, which is a blistering attack on the African slave trade, using arguments grounded in Christian theology and ethics. He had predecessors in the 17th century Netherlands as well.

      The movement against the slave trade and for emancipation in the English-speaking world was launched by devout Christians. Samuel Wilberforce, the British Parliamentarian who became the most prominent spokesman for the anti-slavery movement, was motivated by strongly Evangelical convictions. He and his associates persisted in pushing for the abolition of slavery in the British Empire until 1836, when they finally succeeded. Similar concerns motivated American anti-slavery movements, especially the prominent New York Evangelical businessman Lewis Tappan, who bankrolled anti-slavery societies.

      In contrast, when the post-Wilberforce British government sought to enlist the help of Mulay Ismail of Morocco in the suppression of the African slave trade, Mulay Ismail replied, “How can I lend my aid to the suppression of something clearly ordained by Allah?”

      Obama’s enslaved ancestry is minimal, and traced through his white American mother, who, it turns out, was a descendant of an enslaved African named John Punch (there was a fair amount of intermarrying between low class whites, slaves, and black freedmen in early America; and in many cases, the African ancestry got so diluted that the descendants “passed” into white society). If he is indeed the son of Barack Obama, Sr. of Kenya rather than of the African-American Communist Frank Marshall Davis (whom he resembles), then Obama, as the descendant of East African Muslims, descends from people who were hunting and trading African slaves long after the last American slave holders were ruined in the Civil War—and those same African slave hunters did not stop until faced with British bayonets and Maxim guns. Indeed, Sudan and Mauretania prove that when the West is weak, the lands of Islam will revert again to enslaving their subject peoples and neighbors.

      I cannot help but notice that Islam’s allies in the Western Left are the same people who would suppress the free exercise of a conscientious Christianity and the free speech that allowed our civilization to overcome the evil of slavery. it is also they (people like Frank Marshall Davis) who turn blind eyes to the great historical evil of Communism’s enslavement and massacres of multitudes. Like Islam, they are a largely destructive rather than creative force.

      In conclusion, our openness to the Holy Spirit of God (the Comforter whom Jesus promised in John 12-16, who is clearly not a Hijazi warlord named Muhammad ibn Abdullah), and resultant willingness to confront and reform evils in our society is why the lands under Christian influence became the First World, and those of Islam will remain the Third (or Fourth) World.

      • gravenimage says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 4:43 pm

        Good post, Kepha.

      • overman says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 5:48 pm

        ‘Samuel Wilberforce, the British Parliamentarian who became the most prominent spokesman for the anti-slavery movement’

        Kepha, l think you probably mean William Wilberforce, who spent around 40 years fighting against slavery [helped by a small group]. Samuel Wilberforce was his third son, l think.
        They made a good film about him [not sure if they had the guts to mention lslam], called: Amazing Grace

        • Kepha says

          Nov 26, 2016 at 9:18 pm

          I stand corrected, overman. You are indeed right. I saw Amazing Grace, but didn’t really like it. Wilberforce was not a big man able to push a mired stagecoach out of a ditch (it was a university don named Milner, I believe, who did that). Further, John Newton, author of Amazing Grace, did not go about in a hair shirt, nor was he blind. In real life, he probably went about in the black suit of an ordinary CoE clergyman. No offense to the RC’s here, but I think Hollywood’s image of what all Christians should be like (whether for good or bad) is Roman Catholicism.

          I would, however, recommend Pollack’s biography _Wilberforce_.

        • gravenimage says

          Nov 27, 2016 at 5:15 pm

          Actually, I loved Amazing Grace–it is one of my favorite films.

          As always, movies get some things wrong–to heighten the drama, to tell a complex story in three hours or less, or simply out of ignorance–but I though the film got the basic facts and the spirit of the story right.

          I also liked the fact that they did not completely downplay the importance of faith in the motives of abolitionist’s actions, and I thought that Ioan Gruffudd–even if a bit more robust than the historical Wilberforce–was a fine choice for the lead.

          And to see a film where the main characters are driven by deep moral motives was *very* refreshing.

      • Angemon says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 7:26 pm

        +1

    • gravenimage says

      Nov 26, 2016 at 4:25 pm

      Foul Muslim apologist ibrahim itace muhammed wrote:

      filthy christians are masters of deceptions and lies.they want cover up their savage transatlantic slave trade and cruel treatment of african slaves and shift the blame to muslims.
      ………………………………..

      What absolute claptrap. The transatlantic slave trade and slavery in the US is not covered up at all–it is widely known, widely discussed, and unreservedly condemned. The film “12 Years a Slave” took Best Picture at the Academy Awards and won a slew of other awards just a few years ago.

      But the West *ended* slavery, and the US fought a bloody civil war to stop the practice.

      But there was no Muslim William Wilberforce, and no Muslim Abraham Lincoln.
      Not only was the Muslim slave trade much more widespread than was the transatlantic slave trade, but slavery in the Muslim world has *never ended*. There were still open slave markets in Riyadh when I was a baby, and even today almost a fifth of Mauritanians live in slavery. Muslims have enslaved large numbers of Christians and animists in Sudan.

      In fact, the Muslim world only ended slavery–to the extent that it did, and largely on paper–due to pressure from the culturally Christian West.

      Even more appalling is the fact that slavery is *resurgent* in the Muslim world, with Christian and Yezidi girls and women used as sex slaves in the Islamic State.

      Islamic scholars affirm that enslaving Infidels is perfectly Islamic. It is nothing but Taqiyya for muhammed here to imply that Islam is not all about slavery.

      More:

      mrs mischel (sic) obama, a descendant of africa slaves,will educate you more on this scenario when she visited slave concentration camp museum in ghana.such inhuman treatment of slave is explicitly enshrined in the mithraist evil bible(the book of genocide and phornography).
      ………………………………..

      The idea that Michelle Obama is needed to teach Americans about slavery is absurd–it is taught in every American school.

      What muhammed here does not mention is that most of the slaves were delivered to the Ghana fortresses by Muslim slavers.

      As for the Bible, a handful of preachers and slave owners did try to use it to condone slavery, but the fact is that far more cited the Bible as grounds for abolition. In fact, many Abolitionists were devout Christians, including Wilberforce himself. In the US, it was the Quakers and other Christians who ran the Underground Railroad smuggling slaves to freedom.

      More:

      the quran never enjoine muslims to have slaves for hard labour.it is only in some exceptional circumstance under very strigent conditions prescibed by sharia that is permitted.first you must not maltreat him or impose hard labour on him.
      ………………………………..

      Note that this vicious thug is *still* justifying slavery–what a bloody barbarian.

      And many slaves were worked to death in Islam–the idea that it was more humane than slavery elsewhere is false. There is a reason why there is a large African-American population in the US, but no surviving Africans in places like Turkey and Saudi Arabia.

      More:

      islam encourages muslims to voluntarily free their slaves as an act of devotion to atract (sic) rewards from allah.prophet muhammad was the first person who set his slave zaid bn thabit (sic) free and brought him closer to him just like his natural son.
      ………………………………..

      The vile “Prophet” Muhammed seized free people as slaves, slave traded, and kept slaves and sex slaves.

      Jesus was not a slaver, and in fact ministered to slaves.

      Compare and contrast.

      More:

      if slave is a woman, sharia law says the moment she gives birth to a child she is automatically free.
      ………………………………..

      What absolute rot. This is given the lie even today–women in Muslim slavery give birth all the time–usually raped by their Muslim masters–and they are not freed.

      If muhammed really cared about this, why isn’t he trying to enforce this (supposed) law in Dar-al-Islam?

      More:

      thus, those slaves disappeared in most muslim societies.see ali mazrui on african slavery.
      ………………………………..

      Here’s more on the appalling al-Mazrui, who is an apologist for Osama bin Laden, Al Qaida, and Hamas. He openly calls for the destruction of Israel.

      http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=851

      Even more salient here, though, al-Mazrui has failed to mention that he himself is descended from Mombasa’s leading slave-trading family. No one is to be held responsible for their ancestor’s actions, but to focus on the transatlantic slave trade while ignoring the terrible toll his own family took is simply meretricious.

      More:

      but there are traditionalist muslims who acquired slaves contrary to sharia provisions.some muslim scholars are working hard to get them free these illegal slaves.
      ………………………………..

      Well, they apparently are not trying very hard, since slavery is rife over much of the Muslim world.

      Note, as well, that this appalling Mohammedan is actually *defending* slavery, so long as it is done in the (supposedly) proper Islamic manner.

      More:

      these are the types of slaves christian deceivers are calling islamic (sic) slaves in places like mauritania.they (sic) are not islamic (sic) because they were acquired illegally contrary to sharia provisions.note sharia provides that slaves can only be acquired as war prisoners not by way of suprise (sic) raiding of unarmed civilians.see hamidullah islam (sic) law of war and peace.
      ………………………………..

      Where to start? Firstly, most slaves in Mauritania today were not acquired though raids, although their ancestors may have been–or they may have been acquired in the supposedly “approved” manner muhammed is urging here. The fact is that most of them today are hereditary slaves.

      Moreover, this is a distinction without a difference–slaves acquired though raids on Infidels are considered prisoners of war, because all of Dar-al-Harb (the non-Muslim world) is considered to be at war with Islam.

      But most salient of all–the civilized world does *not enslave people*. It does not matter how the victims are acquired–enslaving people is *illegal*. Where human traffickers are found, they are prosecuted, and their victims freed.

      Not so in Islam, as this repulsive apologist is actually *confirming*. *Ugh*.

      • Kepha says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 4:59 pm

        Another great reply to the Ib the Ignorant.

      • overman says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 5:56 pm

        gravenimage , nicely exposed. Good Work.

      • gravenimage says

        Nov 27, 2016 at 5:22 pm

        Thank you so much, Kepha and overman.

    • Hari Singh says

      Nov 27, 2016 at 1:50 pm

      More Taqiya or shariat permitted lies in the defense of Islam the false religion . Muhammad had slaves, made slaves and raped slaves. Just look at the list of his wives and concubines[female slaves] Prophet Muhammad permitted the enslavement of non believing women whether married or not and raped-the so called women of the left hand.
      Islam refuses to deal with ,stop or apologize to the countries it has killed millions in.Everything they say is a lie to get their foot in the door.
      Just last week Muslim terrorists in Kashmir beheaded a Sikh Indian Army soldier for refusing Islam.Soon the Pakistani border posts were waving the white flags after the Sikh Regiment responded. This is all they understand.

      • gravenimage says

        Nov 27, 2016 at 5:26 pm

        Fine post, Hari Singh.

        I am so sorry to hear about the Sikh Indian Army soldier. Rest in peace, Manjeet Singh.

        Here is that terrible story:

        “Pak Militants Kill Jawan, Mutilate Body; Army Vows ‘Apt Response’”

        https://www.thequint.com/india/2016/10/28/indian-soldier-killed-mutilated-at-loc-by-terrorists-army-pakistan-line-of-control-pakistan-occupied-kashmir-pok

        Kudos to India for vowing to fight back.

  11. ibrahim itace muhammed says

    Nov 25, 2016 at 3:46 pm

    filthy christians are masters of deceptions and lies.they want cover up their savage transatlantic slave trade and cruel treatment of african slaves and shift the blame to muslims.history has accurately recorded how white european christians shipped black slaves from africa to americas accross atlantic ocean in an inhuman manner just like animals.those who were found old and sick not fit for hard labour were thrown into deep sea water and eatened by sharks.mrs mischel obama, a descendant of africa slaves,will educate you more on this scenario when she visited slave concentration camp museum in ghana.such inhuman treatment of slave is explicitly enshrined in the mithraist evil bible(the book of genocide and phornography).the quran never enjoine muslims to have slaves for hard labour.it is only in some exceptional circumstance under very strigent conditions prescibed by sharia that is permitted.first you must not maltreat him or impose hard labour on him.if you breach any of the conditions,the slave has the right to sue the master before a court complaining breach of any of the conditions.if the slave prove his case the court will free the slave.again,islam encourages muslims to voluntarily free their slaves as an act of devotion to atract rewards from allah.prophet muhammad was the first person who set his slave zaid bn thabit free and brought him closer to him just like his natural son.if slave is a woman, sharia law says the moment she gives birth to a child she is automatically free.thus, those slaves disappeared in most muslim societies.see ali mazrui on african slavery.but there are traditionalist muslims who acquired slaves contrary to sharia provisions.some muslim scholars are working hard to get them free these illegal slaves.these are the types of slaves christian deceivers are calling islamic slaves in places like mauritania.they are not islamic because they were acquired illegally contrary to sharia provisions.note sharia provides that slaves can only be acquired as war prisoners not by way of suprise raiding of unarmed civilians.see hamidullah islam law of war and peace.so,the slaves this professor was talking were unislamic, because were captured through raid as non-combatant civilians.

    • PRCS says

      Nov 25, 2016 at 3:55 pm

      Uh, huh.

      Sure.

      • 1reader says

        Nov 25, 2016 at 4:30 pm

        Yep.

    • vladkoval says

      Nov 25, 2016 at 4:43 pm

      Hey, muslim imbecile, are serious about that nonsense???
      You all in fact are slaves of the non-muslim World.
      If Islam never existed – it should have been invented.
      Ottoman Khliphate lost WW1 – lost because it was backward, was backward because it was muslim.
      As a result – formed many separate muslim countries with poor backward economics – because they are muslim.
      All these muslim countries are nothing but puppets of the non-muslim World.
      Population of dar-al-islam is in fact working hard to make reacher the non-muslims.
      Our leftists feel pity for muslims and let them study in our Universities, to stop their backwardness.
      But muslims show that they prefer to be backward slaves. So, let them be!
      And you will remain slaves as long as you be muslims.
      Look at Egypt, where Mubarak, the agent of USA, froze the nuclear program. Now Russia is gonna build Nuclear Power Plant in Dabaa for astronomical sum – 20 billion US dollars – and without sharing the technology. They sell them obsolete weapons and they bow down to to them.
      Look at Turkey. Without NATO, Russia would happily eat Erdogan on breakfast and take back Constantinople. When Erdogan downed Russian plane – Putin banned visiting Russian tourists and Erdogan said: I am sorry, please bring the tourists back. And, please, do not freeze building Nuclear Power Plant in Akkuyu. Because we are stupid asswipers and have no brain to build it ourselves.
      Look at Iran. It is under the ridiculous Deal. And will never get a Nuke.
      The list of shame is too long.
      Islam is incompatible with technologies. And therefore – muslims are doomed to be slaves – directly or indirectly.
      And you know why? Because there is a true prophecy which you will never understand: Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him (to Jesus) a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

      • vladkoval says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 12:35 pm

        If Islam never existed – it should have been invented. – I mean that Islam is a weapon for debilizing your enemy.

    • aDhimmiSaysWhat? says

      Nov 25, 2016 at 8:38 pm

      So the sharia says slaves can only be taken as prisoners of war? Phew! Thank God, for a minute there, I thought you were gonna say something crazy, like ‘slavery is wrong’. I’m just glad you were here to set me straight on this matter.

      • gravenimage says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 4:44 pm

        Excellent post.

    • Marty says

      Nov 26, 2016 at 10:46 am

      A pleasure to encounter a person such as you
      free from an insane asylum.
      Islam is utterly satanic in every respect & no decent
      person can practice it in the civilised world.
      Of course, plenty of evil vermin are ,tragically, allowed to
      practice it.
      For now.

    • Kepha says

      Nov 26, 2016 at 5:01 pm

      Ib, I cannot think of anyone with the slightest amount of formal or informal education in America who is ignorant of the existence of slavery prior to 1865. And of course Ali Mazrui says positive things about Muslim slaving in East Africa: his family stopped doing it only at the point of British bayonets and maxim guns.

      • gravenimage says

        Nov 27, 2016 at 5:28 pm

        Exactly, Kepha.

    • Angemon says

      Nov 26, 2016 at 7:34 pm

      “the slaves this professor was talking were unislamic, because were captured through raid as non-combatant civilians.”

      Nice try, jackass, but I’ve read your books. Muhammadwent on raids and took civilians as slaves. The quran sanctions sex slavery, and women were historically NOT combatants. Try again, but without the lies. I know, I know, that’ll make your father ashamed of you, but try it anyway.

      • gravenimage says

        Nov 27, 2016 at 5:32 pm

        All true, Angemon.

    • Western Canadian says

      Nov 29, 2016 at 11:59 pm

      I trust I am not the only one who has noticed, that fascists, hard left or devout muslims, always accuse those they oppose, hate and wish to subjugate and destroy, of exactly what they themselves are perpetually guilty of?

      Those who commit crimes against humanity, almost without exception the hard left and devout muslims, always accuse their victims of their own criminal beliefs and behaviours. Always.

      • Angemon says

        Nov 30, 2016 at 7:04 am

        Indeed.

  12. eliizabeth says

    Nov 25, 2016 at 5:02 pm

    Another important video regarding Islamic jihad attacks on Iceland – “ATLANTIC JIHAD: The Untold Story of White Slavery” – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOPYiG_FOe4

    • overman says

      Nov 26, 2016 at 6:08 pm

      Thanks, we don’t the half of True History.

  13. Mazo says

    Nov 25, 2016 at 5:15 pm

    In the early Middle Ages, European Christians raided European pagans, mostly Slavs, and took them as slaves.

    Western European Christian Frankish rulers would sell these European pagan Slavs to Jewish merchants, who took them across the Mediterranean, castrated the males, and sold them to Arab Muslims so they could become eunuchs and concubines.

    European Christians would also send these European pagan Slavic Slavs as gifts to the Abbasid Caliph directly. It was considered legal in Christianity to sell non-Christians as slaves to other non-Christians so pagan Europeans were sold by Christian Europeans as slaves.

    Jews were the middlemen between Europe and the Middle East and trafficked the pagan European eunuchs and concubines to their destination.

    Vikings engaged in the slave trade. Vikings would raid both pagan Slavs from Eastern Europe and Christian western Europeans from western Europe, and sold them as eunuchs and concubines into Arab Muslim harems.

    Muslims did not castrate the slaves. Jews and Coptic Christians castrated the slaves first and then sold them to Muslims. Western European Christians sold pagan eastern European Slavic captives to the Jews in Al Andalus, who castrated and then sold them to Arab Muslims.

    Europeans can’t ask for reparations since they sold each other into slavery.

    Barbary Pirates were Europeans and Jews. The Jew Sinan Reis was a Barbary pirate. The Dutch people Ivan Dirkie De Veenboer and Jan Janszoon became Barbary pirates and they were Christians before they joined.. Jan Janszoon and his fellow European Barbary pirates were responsible for the massive Barbary slave raids against Ireland and Iceland and he bought the Irish and Icelandic prisoners to North Africa to sell in the slave markets.

    Europeans sold each other into slavery to Arab Muslims. Why are Arab Muslims supposed to apologize for Europeans selling each other?

    • vladkoval says

      Nov 25, 2016 at 5:21 pm

      Oh, Mazo, glad to see you!
      So, will you confess. are you a muslim from India or Pakistan?

      • Kepha says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 10:38 am

        Mazo is my distant kinsman, vladkkoval, for my family is partly Chinese. He is a Hui

        • vladkoval says

          Nov 26, 2016 at 10:17 pm

          Are you acquainted?

    • Sam says

      Nov 25, 2016 at 6:07 pm

      I am from Turkey.

      Ottomans used black slaves and castrated them because they used them in their palaces and homes and did not want them to be tempted by their wives and slave girls. When they get old and useless they have been killed or kicked out. It was easier for Ottomans to get “fresh meat” from Africa than to feed and shelter old black slaves that people never talk about.

      Castration and killing of black slaves in Ottoman times are the reasons for hardly seeing a “native” black person in Turkey nowadays. But ofcourse we can talk all day long about how racist USA is today, which is a blatant lie.

      • vladkoval says

        Nov 25, 2016 at 6:12 pm

        Bravo Sam!
        As we see: no man no problem.
        And nobody blames the Turks for anti-black racism!

      • Mazo says

        Nov 25, 2016 at 8:01 pm

        Coptic Christians castrated African slaves for the Ottomans. Coptic monks performed the castrations in monasteries in Egypt before sending them up to Constantinople. Muslims didn’t perform the castrations.

        Christian Ethiopians castrated pagans and sold them as slaves to Muslims

        • Vann Boseman says

          Nov 26, 2016 at 3:40 am

          The Muslim slave trade in Africa lasted well over a thousand years. The Muslim market for slaves was not limited to the Ottomans during all that time. There is plenty of evidence that most of the time slaves were castrated long before ever making it to Egypt. It could be that you are right that Coptic Christians and Ethiopian Christians were at some point complicit, and that is horrible too if true, but the scale of the trade over time suggests that this had to be a small or tiny fraction of the castrations done.

          What is the nature of someone who would seek to indemnify Christians in this way when the Muslim customers clearly valued castrated slaves regardless of who would done the castrating.

          I think that you are trying to avoid the HUGE involvement of Islam as the primary creator of race-based slavery in the world, with an especially core Arabian influence. I do not believe that race is as strongly based in the teachings or life of Mohammed, but that the Islamic culture, especially the Arabians, is to be held responsible. For Muslims,is it more important to cover up the Arabian Islamic culture’s race based slavery through history, or to be a Muslim? If you try to do both, then I will see you as a hypocrite and wonder why Islam does not brand you an apostate.

        • Nico says

          Nov 26, 2016 at 4:58 am

          Sources, please.

        • Baucent says

          Nov 26, 2016 at 5:14 am

          Mazo,Mazo,Mazo give us the source references. This is islamic legend, not history.

        • overman says

          Nov 26, 2016 at 6:19 pm

          Just search ‘castration by muslims in africa’ on youtube and you’ll get about 2,600 results. l’m not saying all those vids are genuine, but still.
          Saudi is doing it today apparently.

    • reyol says

      Nov 25, 2016 at 6:28 pm

      If the Islamic market is clamoring for castrated slaves, how are the Mohammedans innocent? Having non-Mohammedan middlemen do it for you doesn’t absolve you. That’s just a way to make ‘halal’ what was previously ‘haram’. It’s just a loophole like many in Sharia. You’re still guilty in the eyes of the Living God and any reasonable non-Mohammedan observer.

      • Mazo says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 8:56 pm

        Sunni scholars absolutely prohibit all Sunnis from castrating humans, both themselves and others, including slaves.

        Shia scholars may or may not allow their followers to castrate humans.

        Most of the castration in the slave trade via Europe and Africa was done by Jews and Copts and they sold the slaves in Sunni areas. Judaism and Christianity don’t prohibit their followers from castrating other people. They should have been told not to castrate humans.

        Shias may have castrated some of their slaves directly when taking them from the Caucasus.

        • Kepha says

          Nov 26, 2016 at 9:22 pm

          Well, in the US consular and immigration services, there were people who noted that every religion forbids its adherents to lie–except when dealing with anyone connected to US immigration process. My suspicion is that Sunnite laws against castration were broken more often than followed.

        • Kepha says

          Nov 26, 2016 at 9:28 pm

          For the sake of historical honesty, I will note something further about slavery in the West.

          I _Institutions of the Laws of Scotland_ (1683?) by James Dalrymple, First Viscount Stair, the author treats of “Servitude” because it was a traditional heading in the Roman Law, on which Scots law was ultimately based. Stair observes that true Servitude was virtually extinct in Scotland, and that those designated as “servants” were in fact a species of free labor whose relations with their “masters”/employers was actually governed by contract. But he did not that in the Christian world of his day, true servitude existed where Spain and Portugal abutted the Islamic and heathen worlds. Perhaps an early admission that foreshadowed Samuel Huntington’s thesis?

        • gravenimage says

          Nov 26, 2016 at 9:49 pm

          Good God–it was Muslims who insisted on castrating slaves–if they sometimes had third parties do the dirty work, this does not absolve them.

          Besides, it is estimated that nine out of ten castrated African boys died before even reaching slave markets–the idea that Muslims always brought along a Jew or Coptic Christian to castrate their victims is just absurd.

          Notice–again–that Mazo has no actual problem with Muslims enslaving people, nor with having them castrated. He just–supposedly–sticks at their doing the castrating themselves. This is Muslim “morality” in action. *Ugh*.

        • vladkoval says

          Nov 26, 2016 at 10:06 pm

          “Judaism and Christianity don’t prohibit their followers from castrating other people.”
          Therefore, be carefull – we are coming for you to castrate you! ))))

        • Angemon says

          Nov 27, 2016 at 6:43 am

          Mazo posted:

          “They should have been told not to castrate humans.”

          Take it up to your coreligionists. Dhimmies usually don’t live long lives when they openly refuse to obey their muslim masters. Heck, they don’t live long lives even when they do – their lives are dependant on the whims of their masters.

        • Angemon says

          Nov 27, 2016 at 9:28 am

          Mazo posted:

          “Shias may have castrated some of their slaves directly when taking them from the Caucasus.”

          Are shias from a Western European nation? I’m asking because of your November 26, 2016 at 5:59 pm post:

          Eastern Europeans should demand massive reparations from Western European nations like France, Belgium, the Jews, and from Scandinavian countries.

    • sinantara says

      Nov 25, 2016 at 7:03 pm

      yes, the Greek, the Roman, slave owners. the vikings, slave traders. but the west progressed technically and morally. Islam has to follow suit but is dragging its heels, writing Cairo declarations… reversing secularism in Turkey. yet enjoying western progress for all what it is worth declaring that it is not western progress but appropriated from Islam’s Golden Age.

      It is better to look at the Japanese and Chinese and Koreans. They have appropriated western civilization and made it their own and they don’t cry. They study and work. Islam is being overtaken not only by Christianity, but now by the Buddhists and the Shinto and the Hindus.

      Here we had a Muslim Bortherhood affiliated minister of education for ten years. The result? Islamization of the education system, hijab school uniforms, mosques at the school… Comes in a new more secular minister who says, why are we so far behind in communication and information studies? Well, the information and communication minister was from the same party, his legacy, a program blocking porn. I also don’t like the porn tsunami on the internet, but Taiwan makes more computers than the whole of the Islamic world.

      So it is better to stop the obsession with white and west, put your own house in order. I don’t feel sympathy for Muslims coming to the west to complain about it. They should work hard to bring their own countries on par. Don’t mention the Golden Age, make the Sahara fertile again like the Israelis have done with the Negev.

      Instead of harping on the past and on colonialism and on zionism and on Islamphobia and whatever

      • Mac-101 says

        Nov 25, 2016 at 7:50 pm

        And the Muslims are doin their best to burn Israel back into desert!

      • Kepha says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 10:40 am

        I think the Japanese and the South Koreans remain pretty much themselves. Also, while a lot of Koreans remain Buddhists, there seem to be lots who are Presbyterian.

      • Ron says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 3:56 pm

        It is difficult to impossible not to conclude that most Muslims are culturally and genetically inferior.

    • Sibila says

      Nov 26, 2016 at 10:56 am

      Mazo, you are talking nonsenses about the Slavs aka Slavic/Slavonic people, they have nothing to do with ‘slaves’. The etymology of Slavic people’s name derives from the term “those who speak (slovo) meaningfully”, “people without the scripture who have only spoken words (their slovo) and spoken literature”, and these were today’s Croats, Serbs, Slovenians, Macedonians, Czechs, Slovaks, Ukrainians, Belorussians, Latvians, Estonians, Russians, Bulgarians and Polish.

      Speaking about the slavery – 3 million Hungarians were sold into Muslim slavery during 200 years of Ottomans in Balkans.
      http://western-civilisation.com/article/1369/42/Slavery/3_million_Hungarians_sold_into_Muslim_slavery_during_2_centuries

      • Sibila says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 11:10 am

        By the time of Turkish Ottoman invasion, Slavs were all long time Christians (since the 9th century) and all had their Slavic scriptures.

        • Sibila says

          Nov 26, 2016 at 11:50 am

          As a matter of fact, during all those centuries of Ottomans in EU – Roman Catholic Slavs fought for EU against the Turks :: for centuries Croats bled and kept the Ottomans away from crossing over to Vienna, and Polish king Sobieski kicked them out from Vienna for good on the 9/11-12 battle in 1683.

          After that, Turks remained on the outskirts of EU for another couple of centuries (till 1918) — thanks to corrupt Slav locals in Orthodox Christain Serbia, Macedonia and Bulgaria.

          Today, the history is repeating

      • Mazo says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 2:29 pm

        Where did I say the word Slav was derived from slave? I wrote that other Europeans took Slavs as slaves and that is a fact.

        Pagan Slavs were allowed to be sold under Christian law as slaves and were sent as gifts by Christian western European Franks to Arab Muslims.

      • Mazo says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 5:59 pm

        Arab geographer Al-Muqaddisi and Ibn Hawqal described the slave trade from Europe. He wrote that Western European Christian Franks seized pagan Slavs as slaves. The Western European Christians then had Jewish merchants castrate the Slavs in Verdun and sent them to Al-Andalus like cattle to be herded in into slave markets. Christians and Jews were operating a mass castration industry on Central and Eastern European pagan slaves.

        The Christian Franks under Charlemagne sold pagan Saxons into the slave markets.

        Eastern Europeans should demand massive reparations from Western European nations like France, Belgium, the Jews, and from Scandinavian countries.

        • gravenimage says

          Nov 26, 2016 at 6:14 pm

          Why were slaves sold in “Al-Andalus”? Because Spain was a filthy Islamic hell hole at the time, where slavery was widely practiced.

          Again, I ask if Mazo condemns slavery. I doubt very much that he will do so.

        • vladkoval says

          Nov 26, 2016 at 9:04 pm

          “Eastern Europeans should demand massive reparations from Western European nations like France, Belgium, the Jews, and from Scandinavian countries.”
          Listen, you, muslim brain-castrate.
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War
          Russian Empire had slavery till 1861.
          Being defeated by France and England in Crimean War of 1853-1856, Russian Tsar realized that slavery doesn’t work. And abolished it. It’s a historical fact. One Russian Tsar was smarter than all muhammadans altogether.
          And remember – your muslim world is going to end soon. Stupid dar-al-islam cannot stand against the challenges of time.

        • Angemon says

          Nov 27, 2016 at 6:23 am

          Mazo posted:

          “Eastern Europeans should demand massive reparations from Western European nations like France, Belgium, the Jews, and from Scandinavian countries.”

          Huh, you realize there’s no such Western European nation called “the Jews”, right? F- on geography, A+++ on islamic anti-semitism. BTW, maybe Western European nations can pay these alleged “massive reparations” you invented with the massive reparations they deserve from muslim countries, and still keep a lot of money/resources for themselves afterwards – that is, assuming you and your coreligionists don’t go bankrupt paying the restorations you owe African nations and India…

    • gravenimage says

      Nov 26, 2016 at 6:11 pm

      Not surprisingly, the Muslim apologists for slavery are out in force on this thread. *Ugh*.

      Mazo wrote:

      In the early Middle Ages, European Christians raided European pagans, mostly Slavs, and took them as slaves.

      Western European Christian Frankish rulers would sell these European pagan Slavs to Jewish merchants, who took them across the Mediterranean, castrated the males, and sold them to Arab Muslims so they could become eunuchs and concubines.
      …………………………….

      Actually, the term “slave” became used for “slav” because slavery was so common in Byzantium, not because Western Europeans were in the habit of singling out Slavs.

      In any case, though, slavery had virtually ceased to exist in Western Europe itself by the year 1000, largely due to the influence of Christianity.

      There was no such movement in the Muslim world.

      More:

      European Christians would also send these European pagan Slavic Slavs as gifts to the Abbasid Caliph directly…
      …………………………….

      Yes, there were Europeans who enabled the Muslim slave trade–a shameful, and distant, part of our history.

      It was the West that pressured Islam to end their slave trade in the 19th and 20th centuries–something they never did.

      Does Mazo actually have a problem with slavery today–which in these days is entirely* a Muslim phenomenon? Not that he says, certainly.

      More:

      Europeans can’t ask for reparations since they sold each other into slavery.
      …………………………….

      When have Europeans ever asked for reparations? Even asking that Muslims refrain from new atrocities is in vain.

      More:

      Barbary Pirates were Europeans and Jews. The Jew Sinan Reis was a Barbary pirate. The Dutch people Ivan Dirkie De Veenboer and Jan Janszoon became Barbary pirates and they were Christians before they joined.. Jan Janszoon and his fellow European Barbary pirates were responsible for the massive Barbary slave raids against Ireland and Iceland and he bought the Irish and Icelandic prisoners to North Africa to sell in the slave markets.
      …………………………….

      Mazo is noting that Christians who converted to Islam were often vicious barbarians–how, exactly, it this a condemnation of Christianity?

      This would be like blaming Christianity for “reverts” to Islam who become Jihadists today.

      Does Mazo actually condemn slavery, as every civilized person does today?

      I’ll be looking for it–but will not be holding my breath…

      • Mazo says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 8:23 pm

        In any case, though, slavery had virtually ceased to exist in Western Europe itself by the year 1000, largely due to the influence of Christianity.

        By amazing coincidence, by that year, most pagan Slavs and Germanic Saxons converted to Christianity and could no longer legally be enslaved and exported under Catholic canon law.

        Wow, I’m totally sure this was due to Western Europeans growing more humane and not because they couldn’t enslave fellow Christians. /s

        There must have been some kind of time loop going on, since they had no compunctions with enslaving African pagans in the Trans Atlantic slave trade centuries later. /s

        Catholic Canon law allowed pagans to be enslaved and sold to other non-Christians. This is why Western European Christians felt there was nothing wrong with capturing and mass enslaving pagan Saxons and Slavs, handing them over to Jewish castrators who castrated and then sent the resulting eunuchs and concubines off to be sold to Arabs.

        Frankish Kings sent Jews on diplomatic missions to the Abbasids bringing pagan slaves as gifts.

        European Catholics regarded both pagans and Muslims as “infidels” under Catholic Church law. They regarded it as legal to sell infidels to other infidels. A pagan European was just an infidel deserving to be enslaved and sold for profit to a Western European Frankish Christian.

        Does cravenmirage condemn Catholic Canon law, Church, the Popes, the western European Frankish Christian Kings and Jews for their mass slaving castration industry of pagans from Eastern Europe? Western Europe and Jews raked in massive profits from this slave trade.

        Christian Novgorod raided Finnish pagans to sell them as slaves to Muslim Tatars. Muscovy sold Catholic Poles and Lithuanians to Tatars. Christians were marketing other Europeans as slaves to visiting Muslim merchants.

        • gravenimage says

          Nov 26, 2016 at 9:59 pm

          Remember my wondering if Mazo was actually going to condemn slavery?

          Of course, he does not.

          His only “defense” is to claim that Christians were supposedly hypocrites.

          Never mind that Christians have long since abolished slavery, and on moral grounds.

          Islam has not. Does he have a problem with that? Of course not. How sickening.

        • Angemon says

          Nov 27, 2016 at 6:28 am

          gravenimage posted:

          “His only “defense” is to claim that Christians were supposedly hypocrites.”

          Yes – all on a generic, abstract level. “Well, Christians kept slaves as well”. Very well – where are the numbers? How many slaves were captured by muslim-majority nations during islam’s 1400 years compared with slaves captured by Europeans? Of course, I don’t expect Mazo to bring any forth – that would make it hard to play moral equivalence and attempt to play the spin-doctor.

        • Angemon says

          Nov 27, 2016 at 6:42 am

          Mazo posted:

          “Catholic Canon law allowed pagans to be enslaved and sold to other non-Christians.”

          Citation needed. BTW, has this alleged canon law changed? If so, when? If not, why aren’t Catholics enslaving pagans nowadays? No, the Catholic Church issued many warnings against, for example, the enslavement of Native Americans. The thing is, the Catholic Church did NOT rule any European nations, so whatever the Catholic Church said, or not, had no force of law. By comparison, islamic religious law was the law of the land in islamic countries – and it still is in many nowdays. Anyway, Christians didn’t start the slavery trade, they ended it. Piracy in the Mediterranean, including the raiding of European coasts, was the driving force of North-African muslim nations’ economies. That was certainly never the case of, for example, France and Belgium, who you’ve mentioned.

        • gravenimage says

          Nov 27, 2016 at 6:05 pm

          More from Mazo:

          Does cravenmirage (sic) condemn Catholic Canon law, Church, the Popes, the western European Frankish Christian Kings and Jews for their mass slaving castration industry of pagans from Eastern Europe? Western Europe and Jews raked in massive profits from this slave trade.
          …………………………….

          Yes, I condemn 13th century canon law which did indeed allow for slavery.

          As for the Frankish Kings, Queen Balthild, who had herself been sold into slavery as a child, outlawed the enslavement of Christians outright, ordered child slaves freed, and became known for buying and freeing slaves.

          She is venerated as a saint for these actions in both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches.

          There is *no* such figure in Islam.

          To the extent that slavery existed during this period, I condemn it.

          I condemn slavery in any era and by any persons, and always have.

          In 1839, Pope Gregory XVI issued a bull, with the incipit In supremo apostolatus in which he condemned slavery, calling it “inhumanum illud commercium.”

          Mazo may have noticed that neither Catholicism or any other Christian denomination condones slavery today, nor are any Christians enslaving people now–nor have they, for many, many years now.

          In fact, as I have noted, we in the West acted to abolish the scourge of slavery, something that had existed throughout human history.

          There was, of course, no such movement in Dar-al-Islam.

          I ask yet again: does Mazo condemn slavery practiced by his own pious coreligionists, on the model of his foul “Prophet”? As this is the third or fourth time I have asked, I do not expect an answer.

          And how could I? He either has to stay silent, or else admit that he is fine with his fellow Muslims enslaving and raping unbelievers, today and always.

        • Mazo says

          Nov 28, 2016 at 1:53 pm

          Lothair II’s daughter, the Frankish Queen Bertha sent a gift of pagan Slavic eunuchs and Slavic slave girls to the Abbasid Caliph Al-Muktafi Billah in 906. Jews helped facilitate the commercial and diplomatic exchanges between the Carolingian Franks and Abbasid Caliphate initiated under Charlemagne and Harun al Rashid. Including the slave trade.

          Catholic Church law allowed for slavery of pagan European Slavs and Saxons. The Frankish Christians captured pagan Europeans and treated them like livestock. They were herded into Verdun where the males were castrated by the Jews who acted like ranchers castrating cattle. Jewish merchants then crossed the border and sold them into Arab slave markets.

          The Abbasid Caliphs had thousands of “white eunuchs” and “white concubines” thanks to this Western European slaving industry. This Medieval Jewish slave trade network spanned across Europe and Asia from the two extremes of Eurasia and was described by Arab historians in the books of roads and kingdoms. The Jews bought European pagan slaves from European Christians, castrated them and then sold them in Arab lands.

          There was no common European identity at the time. European Christians regarded themselves as Christians foremost while European pagans were regarded by them as infidel enemies. No solidarity existed.

          Some European Christians tricked other Christians into slavery. The children in the Children’s Crusade were tricked and sold into slave markets by Europeans.

          Medieval Western European nations obeyed Catholic Canon law. The Canon law allowed non-Christians to be taken as slaves. What does Queen Balthild have to do with this? You said she only stopped Christians from being taken as slaves.

          Changes made in the 19th century by Pope Gregory show someone altering their own religion under pressure from example of secularist Enlightenment or Protestant rivals who created their own doctrine and made major changes to Christian belief.

          The Catholic Church only warned against slaving Native Americans because they were considered subjects of the Catholic Spanish crown after their territories were annexed by Spain. Africans not annexed by Spain were not regarded as subjects and the Catholic Church said it was legal to take them as slaves.

          Ethiopia, a traditional Christian nation, which was Christian centuries before many European nations, abolished slavery only in 1942. Ethiopian Coptic Christians and Egyptian Coptic Christians earned massive profits from castrating African pagan slaves and then selling them on to Arabs and Turks.

        • Angemon says

          Nov 29, 2016 at 5:31 am

          Mazo posted:

          “The Abbasid Caliphs had thousands of “white eunuchs” and “white concubines” thanks to this Western European slaving industry. ”

          Citation needed. You expect to be taken seriously when the economy of Northern African muslim states was mostly based on piracy and raiding European coasts?

          “European Christians regarded themselves as Christians foremost while European pagans were regarded by them as infidel enemies. No solidarity existed.”

          By the 15th century, Europe’s Christianization was more than finish. Even if one were to entertain your delusions and pretend most European slaves were captured by Europeans and only them sold into muslim hands, that still leaves a centuries-long period for which your delusions can not account for. And, of course, speaking in general, generic terms is just trying to muddy the waters. For example, when the muslims invaded the Iberian Peninsula on the 8th century, it had already been Christian for centuries. The first order of service was to capture sand send to the caliph 3000 young blond virgin girls. Are you going to claim those were pagans sold in to slavery by European Christians? Pirates of the Barbary Coast raided England, Ireland, Denmark and Iceland, and brought back hundreds of thousand of European Christian slaves to be sold in the markets of Istanbul and North Africa. Are you going to claim those were pagans sold in to slavery by European Christians?

          Cyprus was invaded by muslims in 649. They sacked Constantia and massacred most of the population. The booty reportedly filled seventy ships, and a great multitude of unfortunate weeping captives were taken away to be sold on the slave markets of Damascus and other Muslim cities. Are you going to claim those were pagans sold in to slavery by European Christians?

          In 721, Al-Semah took Narbonne, killed every male in the city and enslaved all the women and children. Are you going to claim those were pagans sold in to slavery by European Christians?

          in 984, Almanzor laid siege to Barcelona on July 5, He took the city, murdered the defending soldiers and leading citizens and had the survivors enslaved. Are you going to claim those were pagans sold in to slavery by European Christians?

          In 1084, the Moors in southern Italy burned down the churches of Reggio and enslaved all the monks of the Rocca d’Asino monastery. Are you going to claim those were pagans sold in to slavery by European Christians?

          In 1184, Abu Yusuf Yaqub al-Mansur went jihadi in current-day in Spain and returned to Morocco with thirteen thousand women and children for sale as slaves. Are you going to claim those were pagans sold in to slavery by European Christians?

          When Constantinple fell, around 50,000 people – roughly half of its population, were rounded up and taken as slaves. Are you going to claim those were pagans sold in to slavery by European Christians?

          In 1480, Turks landed in Ortranto, Italy, They brutally murdered the archbishop (sawed in half), killed half of the population and took the other half as slaves. Are you going to claim those were pagans sold in to slavery by European Christians?

          In 1521, Suleiman sent an army of 50,000 to take Belgrade, who was garrisoned by only 700 or so soldiers. The defenders fought until they could no more and, when only 75 remained, accepted an offer from the Turks, who said they would spare their iives. In typical muslim fashion, they went back on their word, killed the remaining defenders (spared only Serbians) and took most of Belgrade’s population as slaves. Are you going to claim those were pagans sold in to slavery by European Christians?

          Antony Bridge writes, in “Suleiman the Magnificent: Scourge of Heaven”:

          Although the Turks went into battle for higher motives than mere loot, they expected to be allowed to pillage the places they captured and take their share of prisoners as slaves. This was a way of life which they greatly enjoyed, and which lasted for centuries

          Christians, engaged in slavery as they may have been, did so in a much more modest scale than muslims. Even the Transatlantic trade relied on muslims to capture and sell Africans.

          So, Mazo, are you going to keep trying to pretend it was mostly Christians who captured and sold other Christians to muslims?

    • Angemon says

      Nov 26, 2016 at 7:31 pm

      Mazo posted:

      “Europeans sold each other into slavery to Arab Muslims. Why are Arab Muslims supposed to apologize for Europeans selling each other?”

      Just so we’re clear: are you implying that each and every European taken as a slave in a muslim country was sold by other Europeans and never, ever – not even once – captured by muslims who raided their homeland? Because it seems that’s where you’re trying to go, but it’s such a blatantly false nonsense that not even you would try to go there. Then again, you have a history of reaching rock bottom on one post and on the following post making the aforementioned rock bottom look like as high as the sky (which, I believe, would explain a lot of your behaviour).

      What does your authoritative source, wikipedia, say about it?

  14. Eric Jones says

    Nov 26, 2016 at 12:47 am

    islam is still practicing sex slavery via ISIS. There was a muslim slave trade in east africa 1,000 years before the trans atlantic slave trade. Sharia still allows for slavery.

    Slavery is an enemy to all mankind. All slave histories need to be told. So that mankind can at last leave this barbarity behind. In the best world, slavery will only be in history books.

    Eric

    • gravenimage says

      Nov 26, 2016 at 6:15 pm

      Exactly, Eric. Fine post.

  15. Baucent says

    Nov 26, 2016 at 5:12 am

    As I was watching the video it occurred to me that Islamic culture is a “culture of taking, not making”. You see that today in the underdevelopment of muslim countries and the hand out attitude of muslim migrants. They are shy of good honest work. Take away the opportunity to steal and extort, and they subsist rather than rising to create industry and innovation. In fact even Islamic commerce is large trading items from somewhere else, not making.

    • gravenimage says

      Nov 26, 2016 at 6:23 pm

      And this is for a very good reason, Baucent. The vicious “Prophet” Muhammed himself despised productive labor, and thought Muslims should live off the labor of Infidels–through Jizya, “tribute”, ransom, piracy, and slave labor.

  16. FYI says

    Nov 26, 2016 at 8:13 am

    “Then Jibreel,the greatest prophet ever,who is bigger than Jesus
    said
    YALLAH commands you to take slaves and kill the unbelievers.
    Set fire to the old Jew’s beard and throw the Christian down the well.
    Burn the temple of the Buddhists and punch the Hare Krishna in the face
    for YALLAH hates infidels,but especially Jews and Christians”

    You see what I did there?
    I made it all up:I PRETENDED to be the voice of God.
    I even used capital letters so you would think YALLAH is God.
    But clearly this fictitious voice is so obviously human isn’t it?
    That’s what you need to remember when you discern the voice of”allah”
    in the koran.

  17. Bonnie Loranger says

    Nov 26, 2016 at 8:53 am

    They also raided most of East and central Africa where they captured blacks for slavery. Lots of these people died crossing the Sahara desert and of mistreatments. The men were castrated, the woman sold as sex slave and if they had babies they were killed. this African slavery lasted 1400 years and is still going on in Mauritania. The transatlantic slavery only lasted 300 years. When you go to Muslim countries you do not see many or no blacks. Why? They were not allowed to reproduce. In the USA today you see many black descendants of African slaves. Black in Arabic is abeed ]hope the spelling is correct] which means slave. These bastards were taking slave all over Europe. Cervantes who wrote Don Quichote de la Mancha was taken and delivered because someone paid the ransom.

    • Ron says

      Nov 26, 2016 at 4:02 pm

      It is obvious that the Arabs intermarried with sub-Saharan Africans to the extent that, in many places, they are indistinguishable from one another.

    • Kepha says

      Nov 26, 2016 at 5:04 pm

      And isn’t it ironic that the Left sells the myth that Islam enhanced the “dignity” of black people?

    • gravenimage says

      Nov 26, 2016 at 6:24 pm

      Very true, Bonnie.

    • Mazo says

      Nov 26, 2016 at 7:54 pm

      There are modern descendants of black slaves in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Palestine.

      Castration on black slaves was done by Coptic Christians in Egypt and Ethiopia, not by Muslims.

      • Angemon says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 8:00 pm

        Mazo posted:

        “Castration on black slaves was done by Coptic Christians in Egypt and Ethiopia, not by Muslims.”

        Who ordained it?

      • vladkoval says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 11:24 pm

        Mazo, I love your stubborness in your bullshit.
        don’t give up!
        I even help you!
        Use this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Ham
        Slavery (as phenomena) is justified by Bible!
        Oh…I hope you will not follow the quranic idea that the Bible was distorted?)))
        Show those stupid Westerners that they do not live by Bible!
        Make them feel ashamed!

      • gravenimage says

        Nov 27, 2016 at 12:12 am

        Mazo is fine with abduction, enslavement, and mass-murder–but, darn it, he sticks at castration. Muslims (supposedly) had to get the “filthy Infidels” to take care of that for them–not that they would consider *not* castrating their victims, of course.

        Don’t you love Muslim “morality”? sarc/off

        • vladkoval says

          Nov 27, 2016 at 12:35 am

          “Don’t you love Muslim “morality”?”

          I am just kidding.
          Their world is collapsing (the remnants of it), and they keep sticking to that medievel nonsense, which doesn’t work.

        • 1reader says

          Nov 27, 2016 at 5:37 pm

          I find it rich that the Muslim apologists are out condemning Christians for castrating people a 1000 yrs ago, a practice that they regret and have worked hard to change. While Muslims castrate women every day of the week, as we speak! Bugger off you goat humping, women abusing, welfare collecting, slave owning killers and general abusers of the greater World population. Your Golden Age was a long time ago and by western standards, you people are in the dark ages right now.

        • gravenimage says

          Nov 27, 2016 at 6:08 pm

          Good posts, vladkoval and 1reader.

        • 1reader says

          Nov 28, 2016 at 7:02 pm

          Thanks, Graven Image, you too. So many great posts in this thread, I have learned some things. I will repeat my main point, and that is, Islam CASTRATES WOMEN EVERY DAY. They have no room to talk about how wicked Christians and Jews were in ancient times, when we treat our women quite well today, as well as we publicly and privately condemn slavery in all of its forms. True humility, the ability to admit a mistake and the desire to change and grow are not qualities one finds often in Islam. In fact, Muslims foolishly perceive the Westerner’s ability to admit a mistake and correct course, as weakness! What they may not know is that many of us realize that bringing Sharia minded (fanatics)people to the USA is not wise and we will use the $$ we would have given them – for the jizzya welfare they expect – and build them safe spaces to live in their own countries. There is no way that these Sharia freaks belong in western civilsation. If they stay they are doomed anyway, because their women and youth are going to get a taste of freedom and reject the smelly, outdated false teachings of a pedophile madman. You just see. From what I’ve seen, the Muslims have lost every argument so far.

  18. Marty says

    Nov 26, 2016 at 10:41 am

    I strongly recommend White Gold by Giles Milton.
    It recounts the appalling story of up to one million
    Christian slaves in Morocco alone over a period
    of about 60 years.
    In the UK most younger people have been taught lies re slavery.
    The truth is
    1. Africans kidnap other Africans as slaves, selling on those
    not needed to arab muslims.
    2 Arabs castrate males they intend to keep, + some women for
    harems .Any mixed race babies from the harems, drowned/strangled
    at birth
    3. Surplus slaves sold to Westerners.
    The UK was first to ban slavery & Royal Navy used to free slaves from
    arab,Spanish, French etc slavers
    Any black westerner looking for reparations should contact the
    muslim or african states where slavery is still practiced

    • gravenimage says

      Nov 27, 2016 at 12:15 am

      Marty wrote:

      I strongly recommend White Gold by Giles Milton.
      …………….

      Yes–fine book, Marty.

  19. Odious Truth says

    Nov 26, 2016 at 11:35 am

    Hundreds of thousands of Muslims were enslaved by European Christians in the same period: see “Migrants in Chains: On the Enslavement of Muslims in Renaissance and Enlightenment Europe” by Ariel Salzmann (2013) available as free PDF online

    • Vann Boseman says

      Nov 26, 2016 at 11:51 am

      I doubt that the numbers were really that high. Both Muslims and Christians used slaves of the other religion as oarsmen. This was primarily the use that European Christians had for Muslim Slaves. Muslims had multiple uses for European Christians. As time went on, and sailing became more the naval technology of choice for Europeans, the use for Muslim slaves as oarsmen waned.

    • gravenimage says

      Nov 26, 2016 at 6:34 pm

      Notice that not one of these Muslim apologists–four on this thread now and counting–actually condemn slavery at all. The best they can come up with is Tu Quoque, and usually a pretty historically iffy version, at that.

      Does “Odious” have a problem with slavery? Again, not so you would know.

      The West *ended* slavery, and has long since considered it a dark period. Islam has not done so, and will not. Is he fine with that?

      • reyol says

        Nov 26, 2016 at 10:08 pm

        Very true, gravenimage. The only way that they can make Islam look good is to make you look worse.

        • gravenimage says

          Nov 26, 2016 at 11:05 pm

          All true, Reyol.

  20. Rob says

    Nov 26, 2016 at 3:42 pm

    of course one of the big ‘wakeup calls’ of the Declaration of Independence was that the British no longer took responsibility for guarding the colonies against pirate attacks.

    • gravenimage says

      Nov 26, 2016 at 6:38 pm

      True–this is why the US had to form a navy and marine corps, since even paying over half our GDP was not enough “protection money” to keep Muslims from pirating our ships and enslaving our crews.

  21. Theophilus says

    Nov 26, 2016 at 3:47 pm

    The full truth of islamic slavery needs to be told. Indeed the full truth about islam needs to be told.

  22. knightsstrength says

    Nov 27, 2016 at 12:45 am

    There is so much to history and not enough questions asked or learned by so many.

    When I look at history I see there has to been two main enemies of Orthodox Christianity and Judaism, and other cultures. Even with Myanmar where Muslims killed 70 million alone in India, beheading 10,000 a day. Many Buddhist were killed in India and you wonder why the Buddhist are pushing Muslims out. Hard to think India was a learning centre had huge Universities such as Nalanda that communicated with other countries that dwarf our own. We also forget Christianity spread to many countries thanks to the Apostles even into Asia.

    We forget Inquisitions that started way back in 1000 CE, but I see it began with Donatist, that were Orthodox and spreading. One has to also learn about Constantine and his vision of the Chi-Rho, and I see it he became Christian then and not on his death bed, but a conversion to Catholicism. No wonder the Chi-Rho was not used more than the cross most use today. The Chi-Rho to me was the resurrection, not his Crucifixion. And I tend to believe that Catholicism created Islam, and one has to look at many activities on Muhammad and the people around him before Islam started when 40 years old 710 AD. Even the Quran in the London Museum dated before or during Muhammad. It was Muhammad’s upbringing passed around between family members but there were two who influenced him allot, Khadijah, Waraqa ibn Nawfal. Khadijah became his wife, 15 years older. Both Khadijah and Waraqa were some sort of Christians and Waraqa translated the Bible into different languages. I reckon this is when the Bible was plagiarised into the Quran. Then there was a Ebionite Priest who with Waraka and Khadijah gave Muhammad his authority and also converting to Islam. Funny how Muhammad could not read or write and Gabriel did not give him the ability to recored his visions in the dark. Yes only prophet to receive visions in a cave all other prophets out in daylight, outside. One must remember Mecca was Christian, Jewish and other faiths before Islam, and who did Muhammad come back and behead in Mecca.

    One has to look at the Mary mentioned about 37 times in Quran and there is a Jesus (Isa) only a prophet, who did not die on the Cross, Rise form the Dead, Not the Son of God, did not die for our sins.

    Think about that, ” he died for our sins”, yet our pope, Priests forgive sins. Only Christ can forgive sins if one follows Christ, you do not have to go to a priest and tell him your wrongs, Christ knows every hair on your body so he does not need people to tell him, he took all sins in his death.

    This has been a big issue with the true faith and has caused two major splits (Schism) in the Church, first with the Orthodox away from the Catholics and the second with the Protestants.

    Most of Europe has been considered Catholic except for Germany (Protestant) and England thanks to Henry the 8th, that Henry had the final say not the Church, Henry was the ruler.

    There has been many ties between Islam Germany and Catholics. Austria pressured Serbia, War of Pigs, Serbia War 1912, Annexing of Serbia and Bosnia. Austria forming the Austrian Muslim forces in Serbia, leading to the Young Bosnians and Black Hand. Gavrilo Princip may have shot the first round for WW1. One needs to investigate Dragutin Dimitrijević the Black Hand Leader, who also killed the Orthodox Serbian King and wife. Serbia was about the only country besides Russia who were not Catholic while Orthodox Armenia’s were been killed by Muslims.

    We must also look at those that funded Germany, for WW1 and 2, amazing how corporate America, bankers helped Hitler, Trotsky, Lenin and Stalin and who were behind the Bankers, comes back to Vatican with all its wealth.

    Hitler’s Pope
    Ustaše, also known as “Ustashe”, “Ustashas”, and “Ustashi”, were members of the Ustaša – Croatian Revolutionary. Aloysius Viktor Stepinac (cardinal of the Catholic Church, as well as Archbishop of Zagreb) – Jasenovac Concentration camp one of many who were staffed by nuns and priests, Muslims that did atrocities. While this was happening you had the Spanish Civil War that went out to kill all non Catholics done by Franco’s Muslim Moors.

    Hitler and many of his seniors were raised Catholic, Could not associate Catholic with extermination so Nazism begun, yet there has been ties between Nazism, Vatican and Muslims

    Things we miss, Ratlines, Operation Paperclip, Kissinger’s spies, infiltration of CIA by war criminals, fist Nazis to head UN Kurt Waldheim, lots to do with atrocities in Balkans as an intelligence officer.

    Even Panama Papers Mossack Fonseca, served as a combat soldier in Waffen SS helped to escape with Operation Paperclip

    Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Mohammed Amin al-Husseini is the man almost forgotten but had heaps to do with terrorism from days of Armenia as a Captain till his death in the 70’s. He was the man who blocked the Jews escaping Germany and sent them to the Gas Chambers, formation of the Handshar Waffen SS. You never hear of him. Look up Grand Mufti and Hitler

    The first place one should start is with the word Genocide and listen to Raphael Lemkin who coined the word.

    The Untold Genocide: The Greek Genocide
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fvdD9gBbYU

    Time for people to investigate on your own and bring new light to wha is happening

    • gravenimage says

      Nov 27, 2016 at 6:12 pm

      The “Hitler’s Pope” claptrap is just anti-Catholic propaganda. The pope actually did a great deal to save Jews from the Holocaust.

    • Western Canadian says

      Dec 1, 2016 at 11:43 pm

      “Hitler and many of his seniors were raised Catholic, Could not associate Catholic with extermination so Nazism begun, yet there has been ties between Nazism, Vatican and Muslims”

      Complete drivel. hitler hated Christianity, and loved islam. And hitler never did have a pope,.

  23. ibrahim itace muhammed says

    Nov 27, 2016 at 9:31 am

    look filthy christians you cannot continue fooling the whole world with god given rationality .you have confirmed that the church did practiced slavery and cruel treatments of slaves like castration was carried out by christians;and your mithraist evil bible(the book of genocide and phornography) enjoined to do it.you told us the practice was abolished.did you expunge those biblical verses commanding you to practice it?are you not satistified with biblical injunctions?as far as the quran is concern, it never enjoins muslims to practice slavery.it contains series provisions for the emancipation of slaves and commands muslims to do so.thus, abolishing slavery never constitute an infraction to clear provisions of the quran.one filthy christian was asking mazo if he can approve the abolishing of slavery.i can tell him,yes,we are in support of it, because practicing slavery is not a religious duty imposed on muslims.muslims are encouraged to free their slaves if they have them.but mithraist christians and evil jews are enjoined by their scriptures to practice slavery.we are waiting to see when filthy christians and evil jews will erase those verses of slavery from the pages of their scriptures.

    • Angemon says

      Nov 27, 2016 at 9:41 am

      ibrahim itace muhammed posted:

      “look filthy christians”

      You’re an anti-Christian bigot, plain and simple. If you really want to know who is a filthy people, try standing downwind from your coreligionists. What can one expect from someone who wipes with their own hands?…

      “you cannot continue fooling the whole world with god given rationality .”

      That makes no sense whatsoever.

      “you have confirmed that the church did practiced slavery and cruel treatments of slaves like castration was carried out by christians;”

      That was the claim of mazo, one of your coreligionists, trying to excuse muslims for what they had dhimmies doing.

      “and your mithraist evil bible(the book of genocide and phornography)”

      You’re confusing the Bible with the quran.

      “enjoined to do it.”

      A book enjoined to do it? You need to improve your English. Or sort out your mind before trying to express whatever is in it. I told you before: your obsession with Jews is not good for your mental sanity.

      “you told us the practice was abolished.”

      Do you see institutionalized slavery in any Western nation?

      “did you expunge those biblical verses commanding you to practice it?”

      Citation needed – what are these alleged biblical verses commanding Christians to practise slavery?

      “are you not satistified with biblical injunctions?”

      Which ones?

      “as far as the quran is concern, it never enjoins muslims to practice slavery.”

      The quran justifies slavery and mentions slaves many times.

      “it contains series provisions for the emancipation of slaves and commands muslims to do so.”

      Citation needed.

      “thus, abolishing slavery never constitute an infraction to clear provisions of the quran.”

      Citation needed.

      “one filthy christian was asking mazo if he can approve the abolishing of slavery.”

      So you’re a mind-reader – you know the religion of people just from their posts.

      “i can tell him,yes,we are in support of it, because practicing slavery is not a religious duty imposed on muslims.”

      See above – the quran justifies slavery. And yes, it is a religious duty. The quran commands muslims to wage war against non-muslims on the grounds of their religion and sanctions the taking of slaves as war-booty.

      “muslims are encouraged to free their slaves if they have them.”

      Citation needed.

      “but mithraist christians and evil jews are enjoined by their scriptures to practice slavery.”

      Citation needed.

      “we are waiting to see when filthy christians and evil jews will erase those verses of slavery from the pages of their scriptures.”

      Again: what verses?

    • vladkoval says

      Nov 27, 2016 at 9:47 am

      “one filthy christian was asking mazo if he can approve the abolishing of slavery.i can tell him,YES,we are in support of it, because practicing slavery IS NOT a religious duty imposed on muslims.muslims are encouraged to free their slaves IF they have them”

      )))
      How is it there in your mental asylum, motherfucker? You took your pills today?
      Can’t you see contradictions in your words?
      How can a muslim free a slave, enslavement of which, as you claim, is not imposed on the muslim?

    • vladkoval says

      Nov 27, 2016 at 10:16 am

      Prepare, muslim asshole!
      http://alwafd.org/عالمـي/1416421-شاهد-واشنطن-بوست-ترامب-سيفعل-بالمسلمين-كما-فعل-هتلر-باليهود

    • gravenimage says

      Nov 27, 2016 at 6:41 pm

      More from apologist for Muslim savagery ibrahim itace muhammed:

      look filthy christians (sic) you cannot continue fooling the whole world with god given rationality (sic).
      …………………………………

      Note that this Mohammedan considers the use of rationality “fooling” people–a typical Muslim mindset that quite rejects reason.

      More:

      you have confirmed that the church did practiced (sic) slavery and cruel treatments of slaves like castration was carried out by christians (sic);
      …………………………………

      Chances are that this Mohammedan knew nothing about this history before his marginally more intelligent coreligionist Mazo brought it up. Actually, Christians were the ones who *ended* slavery–did muhammed happen to miss that part?

      More:

      and your mithraist (sic) evil bible(the book of genocide and phornography) (sic) enjoined (sic) to do it.
      …………………………………

      Not at all. Nowhere does the Bible enjoin Christians to enslave people. I doubt that muhammed here has ever read it.

      Moreover, no Christians are enslaving people today–would that this were true of his own foul coreligonists.

      More:

      you told us the practice was abolished.did (sic) you expunge those biblical verses commanding you to practice it?
      …………………………………

      There are no such commands. As I suspected, this semiliterate has never read the Bible.

      More;

      As far as the quran (sic) is concern, it never enjoins muslims (sic) to practice slavery.
      …………………………………

      The “Prophet” Muhammed went on slave raids, enslaved victims taken in war, engaged in slave trading, and kept slaves and sex slaves.

      Muslims are supposed to emulate the model of the “Prophet” in every way. Muslim scholars agree that slavery is perfectly Islamic and can be practiced for all time.

      More:

      it contains series (sic) provisions for the emancipation of slaves and commands muslims (sic) to do so.thus, abolishing slavery never constitute an infraction to clear provisions of the quran (sic).
      …………………………………

      One can only free a slave if one *owns* slaves–does the reason challenged muhammed fail to understand this? Islam has *never* abolished slavery.

      More:

      one filthy christian (sic) was asking mazo if he can approve the abolishing of slavery.i (sic) can tell him,yes,we (sic) are in support of it, because practicing slavery is not a religious duty imposed on muslims.muslims (sic) are encouraged to free their slaves if they have them.
      …………………………………

      That is probably a reference to myself.

      Actually, I asked Mazo to condemn slavery, three or four times just on this thread, but he never has.

      Note that muhammed does not condemn slavery here, either, but just lamely notes that enslaving people is “not a religious duty”. How can Muslims “have them”–slaves–if they are not slave owners practicing slavery?

      Notice, in fact, that he considers me “filthy” for urging others to condemn slavery. *Ugh*.

      More:

      but mithraist (sic) christians (sic) and evil jews (sic) are enjoined by their scriptures to practice slavery.we (sic) are waiting to see when filthy christians (sic) and evil jews (sic) will erase those verses of slavery from the pages of their scriptures.
      …………………………………

      There are no such injunctions, and never have been, so this is a moot point.

      Moreover, we are not in the habit of expunging history, as do Mohammedans.

      Most importantly, of course, if what he muhammed is saying had any basis whatsoever, they it would be culturally Jewish and Christian countries that still practiced slavery, while Muslim lands would have abolished slavery.

      Of course, it is *exactly* the opposite. Christians nations had abolition movement in the 18th and 19th centuries, and slavery has been long since abolished here.

      Whereas, slavery is *rife* in Dar-al-Islam–in Sudan, Mali, Mauritania, and the Islamic State, and slave-like conditions in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States.

      And slavery is *resurgent* in Muslim lands, with open slave markets held in the Islamic States. Muslim scholars–including those at Al Azhar–affirm that this is perfectly Islamic.

      I ask–again–if Mazo or ibrahim itace muhammed will actually condemn slavery outright. As previously, of course, I am not holding my breath waiting for them to do so.

      • Angemon says

        Nov 27, 2016 at 6:54 pm

        gravenimage posted:

        “ I doubt that muhammed here has ever read it.”

        Same here. I suspect all he knows of the Bible comes from dawah artists – “tell this and that about the Bible so you can put Christians on the defensive”. Seeing how he alluded to Bart Ehrman’s books in a generic fashion and flat out refused to make specific references to his work, I can safely assume he also didn’t read his books, let alone the rebutals from Christian apologists, as well, he’s just aware that they exist and that he can try to capitalize on them by alluding to a them as non-muslim source, who supposedly would have no horse in the race of what the true religion is. Of course, Erhman did not subject islam to the same scrutiny he gave Christianity, so it’s just another instance where the appeal to authority falls flat on its face.

        • gravenimage says

          Nov 27, 2016 at 8:10 pm

          I’m sure you are right about this semi-literate Muslim troll, Angemon.

  24. Larry A. Singleton says

    Nov 27, 2016 at 3:04 pm

    Read Slavery, Terrorism and Islam by Peter Hammond.

  25. gravenimage says

    Nov 27, 2016 at 6:45 pm

    There are several Catholic orders dedicated to the buying and freeing of slaves. They are still active in the Muslim world, freeing slaves there.

    Valentino Achak Deng, the hero of Dave Eggers’ biography What is the What, was freed from slavery in Sudan by charitable Europeans after he was enslaved there.

  26. TH says

    Nov 28, 2016 at 1:29 pm

    This was going on for many centuries before the American came on the scene. In 1209, a group of Spanish merchants from Barcelona under St. Peter Nolasco founded a religious order for the redemption of captives called the Order of Mercy and another one was also founded called the Trinitarians. They would collect money and go to those places to rescue the slaves. Sometimes they would even give themselves up to be slaves in order to release the captives. Cervantes, the author of Don Quijote was captured and enslaved in Algeria and was rescued by the Trinitarians. They even got as far as Ireland, Scotland and Iceland.

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