The future of France, and of Europe in general, can be glimpsed in this episode.
“The Aulnay site closed because Muslim employees were constantly taking unscheduled prayer breaks and had become unproductive. It’s the truth. A Peugeot official told me that it was one – but obviously not the only – of the reasons the plant was shut down.”
They may have considered it their due to receive payment from unbelievers even while not working. In Islamic law, non-Muslims have the duty to provide for the upkeep of Muslims. British jihadist Anjem Choudary said in February 2013:
“We are on Jihad Seekers Allowance, We take the Jizya (protection money paid to Muslims by non-Muslims) which is ours anyway. The normal situation is to take money from the Kafir (non-Muslim), isn’t it? So this is normal situation. They give us the money. You work, give us the money. Allah Akbar, we take the money. Hopefully there is no one from the DSS (Department of Social Security) listening. Ah, but you see people will say you are not working. But the normal situation is for you to take money from the Kuffar (non-Muslim) So we take Jihad Seeker’s Allowance.”
This is, of course, based on the Qur’an: “Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued” (Qur’an 9:29).
“Peugeot car plant closed as Muslim workers took ‘too many prayer breaks’, claims official,” by Romina McGuinness, Express, January 5, 2017:
THE head of the France’s centre-right Union of Democrats and Independents (UDI) political party, Jean-Christophe Lagarde, has claimed a PSA Peugeot Citroen car plant had to close because it had hired too many “unproductive” Muslim employees.
The hardline centrist, who is also deputy mayor of Drancy, a suburb northeast of Paris, said that the carmaker’s Aulnay plant, which closed in 2013, had been forced to shut its doors because of “problems arising from never-ending religious demands by Muslim employees”.
He said: “The Aulnay site closed because Muslim employees were constantly taking unscheduled prayer breaks and had become unproductive. It’s the truth. A Peugeot official told me that it was one – but obviously not the only – of the reasons the plant was shut down.”
The shocking claims were made in French newspaper France Info.
Mr Lagarde added that he wasn’t trying to “irk” Muslims and spark a controversial debate about religion at work, but said he wanted to “end the Omerta”.
He said: “Some Muslim employees are proselytising at work and harassing their non-Muslim co-workers.
No one should feel under pressure to convert to Islam or accommodate religious colleagues. Because religion has no place in the workplace.: [sic]
A Peugeot spokesperson, however, has denied Mr Lagarde’s “inflammatory” claims and said that, at the time, the automobile behemoth had been on the brink of bankruptcy and that bosses had decided to close the Aulnay plant to “cut losses”.
PSA Peugeot Citroen Trade union CGT representative Jean-Pierre Mercier also condemned Mr Lagarde’s “nasty lies”….

Kiel says
So it is with muzzies, lazy, unskilled, low IQs but still supremacists and stupidly arrogant.
Champ says
Let this be a valuable lesson to any employer considering hiring muslims whom “pray 5 times a day” …my advice is DON’T!
Bubbles says
They’ve got nothing on the smoker pool in the big law firms. There used to be typing pools – now there are mobs of smokers that go out every 10 minutes. No joke. Are the principals hoping they get cancer and pad the coffers of their hospital clients?!?
Alien Republican says
Not really off-topic as it relates to the producitvity of muslims mentioned in the article. Merkel & her mignons tired to “sell” her policy as a means to mend the demographic gap and recruiting young work force. What is more likely is that 10 years from now we will have in Europe a huge group of retired people, a ever growing of muslims living on social securit, both alimented by those still employed and preferring to have no kids ot make a decent living.
Something ugly is bound to happen.
Skullbone says
Merkle’s motivation is the same as the democratically, liberal Democrats motivation when it comes to not enforcing border security: a large number of people who will vote for them.
Skullbone says
*democratically, liberal Socialists
facepalm
gravenimage says
Yes–the idea that lazy, unskilled, and entitled Muslims should be imported as a work force is ludicrous. They cost a society far more than they contribute.
j_not_a says
It always kills me when I read that European or other western leaders are importing these slugs as a “cheap source of labour”. I laugh my guts out because I known damn well these couch pigs have absolutely no intention of ever working when the welfare cheque is in the mail first of every month. Work, pfft, work is for infidel suckers.
Know Thy Enemy says
“Work, pfft, work is for infidel suckers.”
Muhammad basically said the same thing. From Hadith Abu Dawud:
“Ibn `Umar (may Allah be pleased with them both) who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) saying: When you enter into the ‘inah transaction (banking), hold the tails of oxen, are pleased with agriculture, and give up conducting jihad, Allah will make disgrace prevail over you, and will not withdraw it until you return to your original religion (jihad).”
Note: “inah” transaction is a type of interest based transaction. However, the above hadith is not denigrating simply the above three occupations. It is denigrating ALL worldly affairs (e.g. taking interest in your job at Peugeot) and is saying that Muslims should be taking interest only in Jihad, as is explained in this fatwa posted on an official Saudi Arabian website-
http://www.alifta.net/Fatawa/fatawaChapters.aspx?languagename=en&View=Page&PageID=3511&PageNo=1&BookID=14
gravenimage says
So true, j_not_a.
abad says
It goes without saying, all those Muslim migrants to Europe in the past 3 or so years are a liability
Angemon says
Yup. Why not look, instead, to, let’s say, South America? I’m certain that there are plenty of people in, let’s say, Venezuela, who are sick and tired of socialism/communism and would love to have a chance at honest, hard work for liveable wages. But Venezuelans are not being constantly portrayed as poor, little victims of Western imperialism that we have the duty to make up for.
terry says
The Government of Venezuela, and its medical policies; education policies etc are held by the ‘intelligentsia” as goals worth imitating ( Bernie Sanders was especially enamored of them). Of course, that they have much of their army on the Colombian border to protect the country from the smugglers of such terrible contraband as toothpaste; toilet paper; deodorant (Venezuela does not have the 25 brands that Sanders found offensive).
As to their education and medical care-Israel has better, but the liberlas hate Israel- as much or perhaps more, than the US
Kay says
So true.
& I don’t know if anyone has looked at the costs to the health and educational systems.
We’re probably paying to bring them here too.
j_not_a says
Merkel actually not long ago wanted the “migrants’ to be trained as truck drivers! You just can’t make this sh!t up!
bernie says
This is what I have been saying for months. If Germany is suffering from demographic problems and labor shortages, then they should bring in people of Christian background from the Philippines and Latin America, and even from the Middle East and sub-Saharan Africa.
Even amongst genuine Syrian refugees, Christians and Yazidis should get top priority, as they have been suffering the worst persecution. Also, please note that around 80 percent of the so-called refugees who have entered Germany since last year are neither Syrian, nor are they real refugees.
salim says
Very predictable, in fact inevitable. Things like that will happen more often across Europe.
This can bring Europe down even if Muslims were peaceful, which they are not. It is exactly why Muslim nations are not productive – they waste too much time practicing islam.
Soon, the might of the German industry will be increasingly manned by Muslims who hardly do any work, and if they do it is not a good work. The German industry succeeded because the Germans were good at it but soon there will be no Germans but African Muslims who will turn Germany to an African nation.
ibrahim itace muhammed says
mr spencer,you mean muslims should stop observing obligatory prayers if they want be under the employment of filthy christians or evil jews?where is freedom you say is guaranteed in the christian west?you want muslims to imitate you who take their religion as a matter of play and fun?
Phobic-ist says
Mmm…filthy Christians or evil Jews, eh…you, mate, are a piece of s**t…
Champ says
The unemployed mohammedan “ibrahim itace muhammed” wrote:
“mr spencer,you mean muslims should stop observing obligatory prayers if they want be under the employment of filthy christians or evil jews?”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That is one ridiculous and fully-loaded-with-hate question from the mohammedan SOA. So much for his prayers, eh? They obviously result in more hatred toward others. Anyway …
While employed, even a mohammedan needs to observe workplace rules–which include how many *breaks* everyone gets with no acceptions, and no special treatment, even for mohammedans. And if there isn’t enough time during said break to pray, then a mohammedan can simply play catch-up with prayer time at home on his own time, and not be a financial burden to his employer or anyone else.
I know, I know …this is a basic understanding of being employed for everyone except “ibrahim itace muhammed” the pious SOA.
Champ says
“for everyone except ‘ibrahim itace muhammed’ the pious SOA” …and his sanctimonious ilk.
somehistory says
All those *lk* are simply and evilly, users and abusers. They have and show no respect for Christians and Jews, but will use these to further their evil agenda. Until the time to murder arrives.
Champ says
Indeed, Somehistory!
billybob says
That is one ridiculous and fully-loaded-with-hate question from the mohammedan SOA. So much for his prayers, eh? They obviously result in more hatred toward others
I feel bad for Ibrahim – I really do. Obviously the poor man has been brought up on so many lies about Christians and Jews and the world in general that he just doesn’t have a clue about reality. I contend that if any one of us were fed a constant diet of lies and propaganda since we were a small child, we would end up just like Ibrahim.
As a matter of fact, I commend Ibrahim for his courageous attempt to open up his mind and set himself free, as amply demonstrated by his profound interest in JihadWatch. It must be a very painful experience for him to see, day after day, evidence that is totally contrary to everything he has believed his entire life. He must be suffering from cognitive dissonance, and he is obviously lashing out in pain.
Now before you laugh at what I am sincerely saying, just pause a moment and consider; Why is he here? I would suggest it is because he is drawn to this site like a moth to a candle flame.
Whether he is fully aware of his motives or not, I would suggest that motive is that he wants to be free – free of his operant conditioning, free of the brainwashing he has suffered all his life, free like everybody else here. All men yearn for freedom. It is a basic instinct, and I would suggest, even Muslims yearn to be free of the yoke of Islam but they don’t even know it. Only that is going to be a very painful process for Ibrahim. It takes time. Nothing happens overnight.
This is why I always take patients to respond to Ibrahim’s comments with sincerity, patience, and courtesy – as best I can, anyhow. One day he could become one of our strongest supporters against the tyranny of Islam!
Champ says
Patience, not “patients” …
Patting yourself on the back, I see. Hey even you are capable of losing your patience. Just yesterday you wrote something to me–that I will not repeat–when you lost your patience with me on that other thread.
No worries, we all lose our patience, at times. Take care! 🙂
Champ says
ps billybob …
We all have different styles, so don’t attempt to *lecture* me on how to approach a mohammedan.
There are major problems that bleeding heart’s present to the counter-jihad movement, so don’t be so certain that your approach is the gold-standard that we should all try to follow–it isn’t. Some consider your approach very foolish and even dangerous, and to that I must agree.
And this particular mohammedan is not a child anymore, but an adult, and as an adult he’s responsible for the choices he’s making and the things he writes on JW …brainwashed, or not.
BTW, only God knows his true intentions as to why he’s here. To date, nothing he has written supports your claim. Quite the contrary.
gravenimage says
billybob, the appalling ibrahim itace muhammed has said that Muslims should invade and conquer us, and force Christians to convert to Islam. He has condoned the rape of Infidels. He has affirmed that apostates should be murdered.
You may read this as some sort of cry for help on his part from the Anti-Jihadists of Jihad Watch–but I read it as Da’wa and threats against us.
billybob says
@Champ
“Just yesterday you wrote something to me–that I will not repeat–when you lost your patience with me on that other thread.”
….and by now I would hope you saw the response I wrote the next morning, that took me until I was late for work. There was an apology in there too. In the end, it was all a misunderstanding of my comments for which I took a lot of undeserved heat.
“so don’t attempt to *lecture* me on how to approach a mohammedan.”
I wouldn’t dream of it.
“Some consider your approach very foolish and even dangerous, and to that I must agree.”
So what’s he gonna do to me – cut off my head? He has to find me first. Meanwhile, I have a profound belief in my ability to engage someone in conversation – in such a situation as is under discussion. I have had some unique life experiences to bring to it – that I won’t get into. If I am being taken for a fool I’ll know it in short order, dust off my feet, and move on. Meanwhile, it costs me nothing to try to reach out to the man.
I do find it amusing how others respond – venom with venom, hate with hate. It all seems rather silly, when we have Truth on our side. At least, we have Truth about Islam that is. We should feel a certain calm certitude in that, I would think. At least I for one, am very confident in my understanding of Islam as an evil cult. It didn’t come easy, and my research led me deep and far until I was fully convinced.
I never remember the difference between ‘patience’ and ‘patients’. Must set up a mnemonic about that in my mind, since it seems spelling checkers fail me on that issue.
Champ says
Billybob wrote:
There was an apology in there too. In the end, it was all a misunderstanding of my comments for which I took a lot of undeserved heat.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thank you for referring me back to that other thread. I just read your apology, and I appreciate it very much, along with your explanation as to what you meant. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Take care!
Alien Republican says
Why would a muslims serve (work for) a Christian ? Get self-employed or work for muslims. Problem solved.
DAI says
Your daughter is is your bed waiting for you,Mudslime
carol says
Patients, patience!!
Silas Praygood says
Wow ibrahim itace muhammed radicalized! I hope his e-mail is relayed on to the proper authorities!
billybob says
You show me where it is written that Muslims are obligated to stop working for prayers. They can pray outside of work hours all they want. While I understand they may feel they have an obligation, their employers have no obligation to indulge them.
Ibrahim, stop and think a moment what a disruption to productivity these prayer breaks cause in a factory. An assembly line depends on having someone at every station, and manufacturing is only productive and profitable if that assembly line is running constantly.
Muslims, Christians, Jews, and even Atheists have exactly the same rights, and pay. We cannot stop the assembly just because there are some Muslims working. If they feel they need to pray exactly on some schedule, then they need to find some kind of employment that allows them that – not in manufacturing, that’s for sure. Perhaps in sales, or they can open their own business and run it however they like. Simple!
Where is freedom we say is guaranteed in the Christian West? They have it! As I said above, everybody regardless of race, religion, creed, ethnic background, or even sexual orientation is guaranteed the same rights and freedoms by our constitutions. If some Muslim does not like our Western countries, I would suggest that Muslim leave and go live in an Islamic country. Simple!
“You want Muslims to imitate you who take their religion as a matter of play and fun”? There is no restrictions on Muslims. They can be as serious about their religion as they want to be in Western countries – on their own time. You cannot expect they should get special accommodations or special treatment. If they want special treatment, perhaps they can find that in an Islamic country. Simple!
gravenimage says
Meretricious Mohammedan ibrahim itace muhammed wrote:
mr (sic) spencer,you (sic) mean muslims (sic) should stop observing obligatory prayers if they want be under the employment of filthy christians (sic) or evil jews?where (sic) is freedom you say is guaranteed in the christian west?you (sic) want muslims (sic) to imitate you who take their religion as a matter of play and fun?
…………………………………..
Firstly, of course, Muslim rarely pull this bs in Dar-al-Islam itself, where few employers would put up with it.
This is mostly intended to inconvenience *Infidels*–especially Infidel employers.
Then muhammed implies that the West is not really committed to freedom of religion unless forces employers to keep employees who refuse to do their jobs.
Worse, of course, he has made it clear elsewhere that key parts of the Muslim faith involve oppressing and conquering Infidels, and that we are not allowing Muslims to practice their faith if we try to stop any of this, either.
And then, he denigrates anyone acting in a civilized manner as not taking their faith seriously enough–as though every faith were committed to perpetrating savagery.
j_not_a says
What are you “holy” muzlums even doing in “filthy” Christian and Jewish lands to begin with you nasty mahoundian? Shove off to pakistan, land of the “pure” or some other muzzie “paradise” where you won’t have to rub shoulders with us “filthy’ infidels. Oh, that’s right, free infidel money is just to tempting to turn down, right? You stinking hypocrites, all of you.
Wellington says
Well, j_not_a, what these holy Muzzies are doing is a first step to make said “filthy” Christian and Jewish lands their own. After all, Islam commands Muslims to make all the world Islamic eventually (e.g., Sura 8:39, which instructs Muslims to fight unbelievers “until all religion is with Allah”)..
Temporarily, the world is divided by Mohammedans into the dar-al-Islam (the Land of Islam), where Islam already dominates and non-Muslims are pure second-class citizens, if even this, and the dar-al-harb (Land of War), where Muslims don’t yet dominate but will eventually according to their sick belief system because of the will of Allah (who doesn’t really exist but was just Mohammed’s hand puppet——but I digress).
In short, Muzzies think themselves entitled to all the earth. You see, what is theirs is theirs forever and what is yours will eventually be theirs and that’s why they want to spread all over the globe. Mo’s deluded followers are not just content with part of the earth. They want all of the earth under their domination. That’s why they’re in England, Germany, Sweden, Canada, Australia, the US, et al, courtesy first and foremost of fools like May, Merkel, Trudeau, Obama and others who have brought them here in the first place, all the while insisting that Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance.
Oh yeah, huge problems ahead. Huge.
gravenimage says
Grimly true, Wellington.
Debi Brand says
Well stated, Wellington.
efoc says
100%. Thank you Wellington – I wish you were the President.
Westman says
The Quran absolutely denies that Muslims should be tolerant and reiterates that Muslims should be forbidding others for doing anything Allah forbids:
“You are the best nation produced [as an example] for mankind. You enjoin what is right and FORBID what is wrong…” – Q 3:110
This is why Muslims have morality police in the EU that feel obligated to stick their noses in the infidel’s business.
The next time someone claims that Islam is tolerant, quote this and the other Quranic “forbidding” passages. It is even in the oath of the Muslim Students Association on campuses. Perhaps this “tolerance” is why campus liberals love the MSA – they can tear down the USA together.
abad says
Ibrahim:
Did you fulfill your quota for today?
If not I suggest getting it done now and if there is any time left over from your prayers, hen you can come into JW and post here.
Deal?
bernie says
Ibrahim: the “filthy Shintoists and Buddhists” of Japan generally view Islam as “undesirable foreign culture” in part due to prejudicial views such as yours. The Japanese in general have a very strong work ethic, and believe that everyone’s job roles should be well-synchronized and calibrated. Employees there are not paid to play Go, cards or backgammon, or to smoke, or to drink, or to pray or meditate. They can do those activities on their own free time, or do them “a little” during their break time.
bernie says
In France, not just Christian and Jewish employers, but even many ethnic Chinese and Vietnamese employers (who are usually Confucian or Buddhist) have often said that many Muslim workers tend to complain too much and do not work very productively or efficiently.
Blangwort says
If prayer five times a day is so important to you, why did you ever leave the Islamic paradise you came from to go work for the “Evil Jews and the Filthy Christians.” You are free to express yourself however you see fit, but you still have to get your work done. If that’s too hard, then maybe you should look for another place to live.
But wait, could it be that our standard of living is better because we actually work to support each other? Could it be that we have learned to respect each other instead of insulting our hosts? Could it be that Islamic society is sorely lacking any kind of achievement in the last thousand years BECAUSE of Islam?
Maybe you would like to use this freedom we have in this country and leave your religion for something better.
carol says
blangwort…it seems that you and billybob are on to something!
Hector Archytas says
Our religion is binding to the divine by serving other. Being productive at work is binding to the divine.
Adrian says
Quelle surprise…
We have witnessed all the scientific, technological and manufacturing cutting edge countries ruled by Allah, no?
Bill says
I do not get it. Muslims are burning cars faster than the French can produce them? Some car manufacturer must be providing the new replacement vehicles. Perhaps Peugeot just makes a bad product.
somehistory says
No surprise since they have tried the same things in different companies in the U.S. and sued to get more accommodations. And the EEOC make it impossible not to hire them if the company is large. They are lawless in themselves, but take advantage of and abuse all laws made for the good of those who wish to live right.
carol says
somehistory…I believe it’s called “lawfare”.
Terry says
Hopefully, with a new administration, the rules will be more common sense.
Diane Harvey says
“. . . and had become unproductive.”
As if these (or any) Muslims were ever productive to begin with.
davej says
Aside from being rather stupid and lazy one of the main reasons to refrain from hiring Muslims is that they will always proselytize and cause trouble in the workplace.
By definition the most important thing to all Muslims is not their job, the interests of the nation where they reside or even their own families. They have been brainwashed to believe that everything starts and ends with Allah and that their number one priority is to spread the cult of Islam. And to spread it by any means, including violence, intimidation, false victimhood and demographic overthrow.
So the thought that they will work hard and contribute to the broad social support network is tragically mistaken.
Skullbone says
Many Muslim employees will claim they must pray at specific times but won’t tell you that they are allowed to skip any prayer time as long as they make up for it later before the day has ended.
So, pray at home before you leave, and then pray four more times after you have clocked out for the day.
And there’s a reason why these jerk-offs call it the “jizz-ya” tax.
common sense says
FL shooter was Isis inspired if not fully indoctrinated in violent jihad. He was also investigated by the fbi for child porn. All familiar to Islamic supremacism. He was probably on psychoactive drugs as well. It’s all coming out.
http://lm.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fbit.ly%2F2hYS6ce&h=ZAQHIuE4s&enc=AZMVq8ClPor1vU7k_0A09mVS9p-lM8d3MrCRAXeuYcOOS9mU_bRBIxBVtae8oQkw42V1vS5kXD7Uk27CBRyQCO-Oa8cex8veoQPCzqOSFiG0J63M9sS9MQkkidRgs2qi5vBK1XLueMf1FWID02dg-juggMNTeKKAd_VEE12eZiEjyfpUacgfJRZPPh
gravenimage says
Hard to tell–but he did tell Alaskan police that he was somehow being forced to watch ISIS videos, which is not a good sign.
gravenimage says
France: Peugeot car plant closed as Muslim workers took “too many prayer breaks”
…………………….
This should surprise no one–a major aim of Jihad and stealth Jihad is to bankrupt the “filthy Infidels”. That’s exactly what this was.
Peugeot should have been allowed to fire these Muslims before they destroyed the factory.
Rolf Wittwer says
Europe and its autochthone people can not stay in peace anymore with such amounts of brainwashed, fanatic and for nothing usable people anymore.
Make new laws to send back most of them to their countries of origin. There they feel good and are belonging!
Enough is enough – our politic has to be changed completely!
Debi Brand says
Read the rest that post at: http://islamexposed.blogspot.com/2017/01/the-prophet-waged-war-by-means-of.html
londo says
When you can expect the government to support your 4 wives, why work. In the end, this is socialism and collectivism at work again. When we regain our freedom from taxes and political correctness, we will regain our culture and make our countries strong again. But as long as there are socialist and crony capitalist in government, we will suffer.
ibrahim itace muhammed says
billybob,muslim prayer will not will not take more than 30 minutes to finish.for five daily prayers you have 2 1/2 hours out of 24 hours per day.when your compare it with the work free day on sundays set for christians to clap and dance for the devil,which one reduces productivity?christians and jews are people of lies and deceptions due to association with devil the father of liars and deceivers.you accused others of wrong which you always do.your destinity is hellfire, you and your mentor the devil.
Champ says
Hey Billybob, looks like your “patience” with the mohammedan monster really paid off. Try kissing his backside harder next time …
Noel says
I’m starting to think that “patient” is the right word. Time for his tablets. But seriously, this illustrates the effect of delusional indoctrination.
bernie says
Does not the Quran say that Allah is the greatest of deceivers?
When you get hired by a company, you have a fiduciary duty to follow the rules of that company. If you find that the rules conflict with your religious beliefs, then you should not work there. Instead you shouldcapply to work at a place that is compatible with your beliefs.
Alien Republican says
ibrahim the heathen in full delusion:
“the father of liars and deceivers.”
—
Read the koran you god-less creature. It says that “alla is the greates schemer”, which makes him the father of liers and deceivers.
You said “.your destinity is hellfire, you and your mentor the devil.”
—
Even by your own standards you are a very very bad muslim because you don’t undertand the nature of your “allah”. There is no limit to him and he might as well decide to roast you in hell and give your place to jew. Do you deny that allah may do what he wills ?
And because nothing happens without the condordance of “Allah” the power of Christians and Jews, even Atheist in the world is not just good luck. Nothing goes against his will. You feel miserable ? It’s allahs will, Muslims suffer ? It’s allahs will.
Maybe you should read the koran again and look up the sura that says that people of the book know best….
Alien Republican says
…my spelling is a curse from hell.
billybob says
I worship not that which you worship, nor will you worship that which I worship. And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping. Nor will you worship that which I worship. To you be your religion, and to me my religion.
Religions are merely constructs by which we attempt to make sense of the world around us in its infinite dimensions. It is best not to take them too seriously. One should never confuse a religion with reality itself.
For example, imagine there’s no heaven – It’s easy if you try. No hell below us, above us only sky. Imagine all the people living for today. Imagine there’s no countries – It isn’t hard to do. Nothing to kill or die for, and no religion too. Imagine all the people living life in peace. You may say I’m a dreamer but I’m not the only one. I hope some day you’ll join us and the world will be as one.
Imagine no possessions. I wonder if you can. No need for greed or hunger – a brotherhood of man! Imagine all the people sharing all the world. You may say I’m a dreamer but I’m not the only one. I hope some day you’ll join us and the world will be as one.
terry says
Billybob–I beleive part of what you ahve written (A John Lennon song, if I remember correctly) is also close to the orthodoxy of the former Soviet Union and Karl Marx, and his collaborator, Engels.
Cuba and Venezuela have-more or less- these parameters. Just no free speech. No real criticism of the government, etc. In reality, virtually no freedoms.
(And, I know a person with dual-Venezuelan/US citizenship, who was born there, and went back for a visit- said the situation is terrible- and that that was an understatement. Shortages of everything – for the people, not the elites, and few shortages for the (loyal) military
billybob says
The former Soviet Union and Karl Marx, and his collaborator, Engels, Cuba are all officially atheist countries. I am not advocating atheism, nor was John Lennon. Absence of religion is not necessarily equal to atheism. John Lennon did not say “Imagine there is no God”.
Religions are often problematic. If we get too attached to our religion, we begin to think ours is the only one the is right and all the rest are wrong. That causes division and sometimes wars.
Noel says
That song is describing no borders and a New World Order. Lennon was a good songwriter but a crap philosopher.
terry says
If there is no religion- at all- then it is forced-so there goes freedom- to beleive or not beleive. No possessions- that is also what one has ( to a great extent) in such workers paradises as Cuba and Venezuela and most people had in the old Soviet Union and most probably still do in The “People’s Republic” of China.
Again, Communistic or strongly socialistic views, with freedoms curtailed.
Seems that the US and the west fought a decades long Cold War, with a few hot spots, for a few decades, so PEOPLE CAN WORSHIP A RELIGION-IF THEY WANT, and can accumulate goods. And, if people prefer no religion, that was and is also fine.
To FORCE PEOPLE TO NO RELIGION IS THE SAME AS FORCING ATHEISM . If not, explain how-a society that does not allow belief in a Supreme being is not saying that because there is no Supreme Being, you are (by definition) an atheist.
I prefer (I would venture a guess that probably 90+% of the people on the site would agree) that I beleive what i want to believe. You can beleive or not beleive what you want to believe or not. You don’t force your views on me, and I don’t force mine on you.
My opinion, far preferable than John Lennon. (Who, by the way, for ‘ no possessions” had a hell of a lot of money when he got killed-so much for no possessions for him).
billybob says
Noel & Terry
You both make good points. I certainly don’t advocate “no borders and a New World Order”. I only quoted that song to illustrate the point I wanted to make about religion. I understand now after reading your comments that song is not what we want to hear today.
However, you need to remember that was written back in the 60’s. It was a different world back then. We had the antiwar protests and the hippies looking for peace and love and going to live on communes. Now “communes” can be associated with “Communism”, and in light of all our experiences today, it sounds horrible.
Back then, however, it expresses the yearning for peace. Americans were dying like flies in a far off war (Viet Nam) on behalf of the greedy capitalists as they might have said back then. Also, communes were a good place to hide out if you were a draft dodger. (You don’t have the Draft today.)
So what are the root causes of war? Everything mentioned in John Lennon’s song – possessions, borders, and religion. He says – imagine – without these things, there would be no war. Imagine that as a place to start thinking – that’s all. It doesn’t mean he thinks we should all become Communists or start the New World Order. Maybe he is dreaming about a simpler life in ancient times when we all lived in small tribes.
Now I am not getting into all these implications. As I said, I only used Lennon’s song to decorate my point about religion. I’m just giving you a little background on it from someone who was there back then when John Lennon wrote that song. That song is not as bad as it sounds to you today. You need to understand it in the context of the time it was written.
gravenimage says
billybob, with all respect, “nothing to die for” means that you will not stand up for any principle–not to defend your freedoms or even your loved ones.
This is, in fact, *exactly* what conquering Muslims are hoping for.
gravenimage says
Appalling Muslim supremacist ibrahim itace muhammed wrote:
billybob,muslim (sic) prayer will not will not take more than 30 minutes to finish.for (sic) five daily prayers you have 2 1/2 hours out of 24 hours per day.
………………………….
Never mind that this is particularly disruptive in a factory, where the assembly line cannot stop for Muslim arse-lifting. Nor, of course, should civilized Infidels have to accommodate this.
More:
when (sic) your (sic) compare it with the work free day on sundays (sic) set for christians (sic) to clap and dance for the devil,which (sic) one reduces productivity?christians (sic) and jews (sic) are people of lies and deceptions due to association with devil the father of liars and deceivers.you (sic) accused others of wrong which you always do.your (sic) destinity (sic) is hellfire, you and your mentor the devil.
………………………….
Where to start? Firstly, it is obvious that the appalling Muslim supremacist muhammed understands *nothing* about Christianity and Judaism.
And few Christians specifically take Sunday off, unless it is simply part of their weekend. Lots of Christians–including very devout ones–work on Sundays.
But let’s cut to muhammed’s main point–besides, of course, muhammed shrieking about all non-Muslims spending their afterlives in hellfire–that Muslims are far more productive than are Christians. But are they?
Unlike his ranting about hellfire, this is quite simple to prove. The entire Muslim world–1.6 billion people–has a GDP of just $18.6 billion. The United States, which is 83% Christian and has a population of 318 billion, has a GDP of *$16.77 trillion*. And it is not just the US–Canada, Australia, Britain, and the EU are all have high GDPs, as well. Little Israel, with a population of just 8 billion, has a GDP of $286.840 billion.
So–are Muslims more productive than Christians? No, they are not–and by a rather pronounced margin.
This should, of course, not surprise. In fact, the “Prophet” Muhammed despised productive labor, considering it fit only for slaves. And that is the point–Muslims believe they should be able to live off productive Infidels.
carol says
Ibrahim…OH! I didn’t realize that Muslims came in and worked every Sunday! I guess it was only the Christian God who said Sunday should be “a day of rest”. Your Allah seems quite different from God.
Midway says
Unbathed, desert dwelling Arab gypsies are a destructive, satanic lot who prey on the weak, tolerant host countries. They move in like a swarm of locusts & destroy all in its path.
John A. Marre says
Productivity and Islam? Incompatible. Explains why Muslim countries don’t produce anything. Selling oil doesn’t count as producing anything. Explains why Muslim countries are poor
Tradiguy says
The whole ethos of Islam is to diminish its followers and anything it touches. They come from God forsaken holes for a better life they say- then they set about turning their opportunity of a better life into a shithole- low IQs assist Satan in not allowing them to grasp the situation- they will always be impoverished, they will always be low life until they realise that their beloved Mohammad was nothing but an arrogant thug with no godliness whatsoever! I wouldn’t hire a Muslim if he were the last man standing- too dishonest- too lazy.
gary fouse says
I always wondered why Peugeots were such ugly cars. Now I know.
terry says
A point that if it was made- anywhere-I missed it.
The PLANT CLOSED IN 2013. IT IS NOW 2017. SO OVER 3 YEARS AGO.
Why is it written up now? if anything, probably when or within a few months, of when the plant closed.
(As an example, Ford in Mexico is NOT going to build a plant, -work, it seems, had not even started, and already the anguish of the anti-American lefties and the Mexicans.. here, 3+ years later- first talking about it?
carol says
terry…it seems local mayor LaGarde only revealed this recently in the interests of ending “Omerta”. The Trade union rep Mercier denies that it’s true. I’d tend to believe the former.
carol says
terry…it seems local mayor LaGarde only revealed this recently in the interests of ending “Omerta”. The Trade union rep Mercier denies that it’s true. I’d tend to believe the former.
carol says
Trying not to repeat myself – a sticky touchpad!